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f13.net General Forums => PC/Console Gaming => Topic started by: Mrbloodworth on September 11, 2012, 10:41:14 AM



Title: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 11, 2012, 10:41:14 AM
http://robertsspaceindustries.com/start/

Quote

    Welcome!

    If you've made it here, you probably know who I am. Maybe you have heard of Wing Commander and its sequels, or perhaps Strike Commander, Privateer or Freelancer.

    If not, you're still welcome!

    I grew up making video games. I sold my first game at the age of 13 and created Wing Commander when I was 21. But 10 years ago, at the height of my career I took a break. Not because I stopped loving or playing games but because I had become frustrated with the limits of the technology at the time to realize my vision.

    I decided to pursue my desire to create detailed worlds and tell sophisticated stories in film.

    I always said the moment I became interested in making games again was when I was going to come back.

    With the power of today's computers and the reach of the internet I finally feel I have the tools to build the connected experience that I always dreamed of. A world that would be more satisfying and richer than any film I could work on.

    With films you tell stories but with games you create worlds.

    If you've played my games, you'll know that's what I love to do.

    I'm here to tell you that I have been working on something for just under a year, something that embraces everything that my past games stood for but takes it to the next level.

    I hope you'll be as excited by it as I am.

    My new endeavor is still in its early stages but I invite you to take the journey with me.

    If you register below you'll become an insider that will not only give you early access to the game's website and forums, but you will also get the opportunity for rewards and privileges that no one else will get. It's my way of showing how important your early involvement and support is.

    The full announcement will be at 10am Eastern Standard Time (UTC -5) on the 10th day of the 10th month of this year.

    My name is Christ Roberts.

    And if you would indulge me I would like to create a world for you.

Quote from: Figuring out the Secret code on the site!

(http://media.bestofmicro.com/T/R/352287/original/starshipbridge-740x300.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Zaljerem on September 11, 2012, 10:56:30 AM
As long as he doesn't try to make any more movies, I'm good ...  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 11, 2012, 11:43:31 AM
I Really liked Outlander.

Anyway.

I hope this is a Privater/Freelancer persistent world that uses a Minecraft like hosting system. :)

EDIT: or as a friend is reminding me, like Freelancer.  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Riggswolfe on September 11, 2012, 12:15:01 PM
I wonder if it will be in the same "world" I'm guessing not since EA probably owns it. I signed up on the site because I would kill for a wing commander style space sim to come back!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Xuri on September 11, 2012, 02:18:02 PM
Sounds promising. Website is a bit bugged though :P

I open the site in Opera, and I get a countdown with an "enter access code" message. I am, however, unable to actually click on the text-entry field and enter the code.
I open the site in IE 8 (oh, hush) and I never see the countdown, but instead skip directly to a welcome letter and an enlist button :P


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 11, 2012, 02:41:46 PM
Hes from the 1990's. Cut him some slack!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yegolev on September 11, 2012, 04:03:31 PM
I had to google.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Raguel on September 11, 2012, 06:02:57 PM
I was just thinking, with playing SWToR and Raph posting, why both SW mmos failed so hard with space combat, and wouldn't it be cool if there was a Wing Commanderish mmo? At any rate I'll look forward to this.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on September 12, 2012, 09:01:23 AM
SWG Space Combat was quite awesome.  It's just they didn't have it at launch.

Though I'd still love a new Privateer.  (Military life isn't for me. ;)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Raguel on September 12, 2012, 12:16:06 PM
SWG Space Combat was quite awesome.  It's just they didn't have it at launch.

Though I'd still love a new Privateer.  (Military life isn't for me. ;)

I didn't know it was added at all, tbh.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on September 13, 2012, 02:17:16 PM
LOVED WC series and Privateer. Don't think I played Freelancer. I have faith he can do something cool. Looking forward to it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 13, 2012, 04:41:19 PM
For a more complex simulation with a hard learning curve, we have the excellent "X" series, so I'm perfectly fine with it; but I would really look forward to a more cinematic and plot driven experience that goes alongside a more accesible simulation aspect (Freelancer tried to do exactly that).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Riggswolfe on September 13, 2012, 06:45:09 PM
I've got my golden ticket and can't wait to see what he has going. I loved the WC series because it hit that sweet spot of space flight simulation and story. Is Freelancer the one that came out with the mouse controls a few years ago? I never did get around to finishing it because it was lacking, well, something I never put my finger on. I thing it was basically a story and characters that I cared about.

I wonder, will he try FMV again or go with CGI cutscenes?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Kail on September 13, 2012, 10:14:57 PM
Is Freelancer the one that came out with the mouse controls a few years ago?

Yeah, came out in like '03 I think.

It was supposed to be a sequel to Starlancer, in the lame "it takes place a thousand years later in a different place and has none of the same ships, factions, characters, or setting" way.  I never played Wing Commander, but I really liked Starlancer, between missions it had these neat little first person FMVs whenever you switched from one screen to the other so it really felt like you were walking around in the carrier.  That blew my mind at the time.  It was also kind of hilarious in that it had a killboard where all the top aces from the war were listed, and you'd see new pilots move up the ranks or older pilots removed when they died, but nobody apparently noticed that your character was sitting at the top with like double the number of kills as the "elite top ace" everyone else fawns over.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Riggswolfe on September 14, 2012, 12:41:42 AM
Is Freelancer the one that came out with the mouse controls a few years ago?

Yeah, came out in like '03 I think.

It was supposed to be a sequel to Starlancer, in the lame "it takes place a thousand years later in a different place and has none of the same ships, factions, characters, or setting" way.  I never played Wing Commander, but I really liked Starlancer, between missions it had these neat little first person FMVs whenever you switched from one screen to the other so it really felt like you were walking around in the carrier.  That blew my mind at the time.  It was also kind of hilarious in that it had a killboard where all the top aces from the war were listed, and you'd see new pilots move up the ranks or older pilots removed when they died, but nobody apparently noticed that your character was sitting at the top with like double the number of kills as the "elite top ace" everyone else fawns over.

That happened in the Wing Commander games too. You'd hear about how some pilot was the best ever and you'd look at the killboard and he'd have like 6 kills and you'd have 37.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on September 14, 2012, 01:25:21 AM
I pretty much always sent my wingman back to base in WC. When it would let me, anyway.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: koro on September 14, 2012, 02:43:49 AM
Wing Commander Privateer (which I didn't try for my first time until a few years after Freelancer hit) can actually do the same type of mouse control, which I found kind of surprising. It's also quite fun.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 14, 2012, 02:55:18 AM
"Everybody knows about the Maniac...Everybody!" (I watched this a lot of times thanks to the VHS that came with my UK "movie reel" premiere edition)  :grin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfQ-mF4mZ8M


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: K9 on September 14, 2012, 09:08:36 AM
Freelancer is right up there on my list of games I would love to have another of. Space trading/combat sims are a bit of an unloved genre I feel.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 14, 2012, 12:41:12 PM
Is Freelancer the one that came out with the mouse controls a few years ago?

Yeah, came out in like '03 I think.

It was supposed to be a sequel to Starlancer, in the lame "it takes place a thousand years later in a different place and has none of the same ships, factions, characters, or setting" way.  I never played Wing Commander, but I really liked Starlancer, between missions it had these neat little first person FMVs whenever you switched from one screen to the other so it really felt like you were walking around in the carrier.  That blew my mind at the time.  It was also kind of hilarious in that it had a killboard where all the top aces from the war were listed, and you'd see new pilots move up the ranks or older pilots removed when they died, but nobody apparently noticed that your character was sitting at the top with like double the number of kills as the "elite top ace" everyone else fawns over.

Free lancer was closer to Privater, obviously they were on the same line.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 09, 2012, 11:01:55 AM
Quote

    The Roberts Space Industries Reveal is Coming Soon

    Hi Everyone,

    Our time for the big reveal is nearing! Please tune-in for the live internet broadcast via Gamespot at 10am EST on October 10, 2012.

    Once the announcement is made there will be NO more golden tickets distributed and together we will forever be the founders of our new universe! Be sure to tell your friends to register before 10.10.10 so that they can be included.

    Several of you have asked to attend GDC Online in Austin in person and we would love to see you there! Please fill out this form to let us know you're coming so we can provide further details and make arrangements to include you.

    As a Thank-You from all of us at Roberts Space Industries, every Golden Ticket Holder -- should you choose to join us on our new adventure -- will receive defining gold decals for your spaceship to immortalize your early support.

    Together we will shape the universe - one or one million polygons at a time.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 10, 2012, 11:01:56 AM
OMFG! (http://www.gamespot.com/shows/gamespot-live/?event=roberts_space_industries_gdc_panel20121010)


Squadron 42 - Star Citizen Announcement Trailer (http://youtu.be/W_QDv7DFfxk?hd=1) - Trailer only link.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Zaljerem on October 10, 2012, 11:32:55 AM
May this come to fruition.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 10, 2012, 11:46:44 AM
Did you watch the whole presentation?

The vector thrust system is fucking nuts!

EDIT: Also, AVATARS!

Quote
After a quick tour around the asteroid field, Roberts parked his ship on an exterior wall of the enormous carrier ship, where some other spacecraft had been parked. He exited his own ship, walked across the exterior of the carrier, and boarded another small craft, before flying back around and landing the second craft in the belly of the carrier.

Quote
Furthermore, Star Citizen will include what Roberts describes as "Millenium Falcon-style" ships, in which player will actually be able to get up and walk around to different stations. Friends can climb aboard and mount the turrets in the back. Even more exciting, was the prospect that some player-controlled ships would be large enough to carry a smaller ship in its hanger bay that a friend can jump into when the fighting breaks out. A helpful thing if, as Roberts put it, "we're going on a trading mission to the edge of the galaxy where there's no law and order."

lol @ eve online ( * Ducks * )


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 10, 2012, 12:25:39 PM
http://robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen/

Crowdfunding ends in 30 days


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 10, 2012, 01:26:15 PM
Star Citizen - Full five minute Squadron 42 trailer  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN8MZHT74sE) -  Turn on HD.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 10, 2012, 03:04:11 PM
Have all my babies. Now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: apocrypha on October 10, 2012, 04:29:00 PM
How is this not setting off people's bullshit detectors?

This is ridiculously over ambitious & doomed to failure.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Trippy on October 10, 2012, 04:30:51 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3e/Strike_commander.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sheepherder on October 10, 2012, 05:09:28 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d1/WingCommanderBox-front.jpg)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/86/WingIIbiglogo.jpg)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/32/Wc3boxart.jpg)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/30/Wing_Commander_IV_-_The_Price_of_Freedom_Coverart.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 10, 2012, 05:11:39 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/35/Wing_Commander_-_Privateer_Coverart.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Amaron on October 10, 2012, 05:15:19 PM
How is this not setting off people's bullshit detectors?

This is ridiculously over ambitious & doomed to failure.

Seriously what?  We can't talk about it even if we think it's going to fail?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on October 10, 2012, 06:09:42 PM
Saw the video earlier. Looks freakin' amazing and does everything I've wanted since (Sky, say it with me): Freespace 2  :grin:; however, a crowd-sourced PC game launching after the next console generation comes, from a guy nobody's heard from for the last two console generations, yea, I'm not holding my breath.

But I'm downloading that video and keeping it. Forever.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ingmar on October 10, 2012, 08:09:14 PM
The FPS ship invasion bits sound potentially game-ruining.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: lamaros on October 10, 2012, 08:42:08 PM
Why does the trailer feature a ship with a landing strip? They're in space...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Amaron on October 10, 2012, 09:25:33 PM
Why does the trailer feature a ship with a landing strip? They're in space...

Because it looks cooler that way.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: lamaros on October 10, 2012, 09:40:05 PM
Does it? I'd rather a game about space be imaginative.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 10, 2012, 11:59:10 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4d/Fl_box.jpg/220px-Fl_box.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: apocrypha on October 11, 2012, 12:42:47 AM
Seriously what?  We can't talk about it even if we think it's going to fail?

Talk about it all you want, I'm just surprised that nobody had been usefully cynical yet.

And yes guys, I know who Chris Roberts is and what games he's made. And what films he's made, and all the ones he's written & directed have been utterly, utterly terrible. He only produced Outlander, but that was utterly, utterly terrible too IMO. Lucky Number Slevin and Lord of War were much better, I liked them, but this is all irrelevant really :p

I'll pop back in 5 years and see how this is going, but I strongly suspect anyone ponying up for this particular Kickstarter is contributing to a unicorn hunt.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on October 11, 2012, 07:54:42 AM
That's okay.  Much like Wasteland 2 and MWO, this is a guy who inspired my childhood dreams and giving me hope for a product I've wanted for decades.  I'm okay giving him a bit of cash in thanks.  If I actually get the game he wants to make out of this?  I win.  Everything.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on October 11, 2012, 09:50:02 AM
Game's website has been down all morning.

I've played and enjoyed some of these games but the guy sure does like to plaster his name on everything.  So my question is this - is he a megalomaniac douchebag or not?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 11, 2012, 09:53:08 AM
I think every game he has made has had such a clear, concise vision, no ones name could be on it.

He also comes from a time when games were made by one or two people. Games were more like Novels in how they were packaged back then.

Example:



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 11, 2012, 11:09:46 AM
Yeah well, I always considered him and Garriott quite similar :) (from an outsider perspective, of course) . Now that I think about it, Origin at the beginning of the '90 had Spector, Garriott and Roberts  :heart: ; plus, Looking Glass with a similar relationship to the Black Isle/Bioware of a few years later...Good times.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 12, 2012, 12:36:34 PM
Quote
When I said I missed old school difficulty to gaming you probably didn’t think that I would make the pledge process more difficult than fighting the toughest boss monster in Demon’s Souls!

Well neither did I!

Wednesday morning we set out to prove that PC gaming and Space Sims are not dead… and prove it, we did!

We're absolutely floored by the attention and humbled by your comments. We hoped everyone would be excited about the big idea behind Star Citizen and Squadron 42 -- but we had no expectation about the kind of praise and interest we received yesterday.

The downside of all this attention was that the huge number of people from all around the world trying to learn about Star Citizen and make their pledge, crashed our custom crowd funding page and also took down the core community site.

Until then, we were on track to break crowd funding records. Now, thirty hours later, we're only just getting the core site back online. The proper crowd funding page is still unfortunately down, but we have a backup site that, while not having the full range of features we intended, can take people’s pledges. With this site we have to update the data manually as there is no way to easily collect the crowd funding statistics on a live basis, which is why you haven’t seen a counter on the backup site. We are working very hard to get the main crowd funding plug in to play nice with the rest of the site, so we can deliver the seamless experience we envisioned when opting to have the crowd funding integrated into the main community site. Don’t worry, no one has lost their golden ticket, and we will ensure that everyone who makes a pledge on the backup site is connected to their community account. Please be patient while we organize this process.

We didn't just set out to raise money to build a game; we set out to build a community. The intention was never to shut off the forums, disable the Golden Tickets or stop the flow of information after the launch; anything but. We hope you'll bear with us as we get the community back online. The features you've enjoyed for the past month will continue -- the Comm-Link, RSI Museum and Time Capsule -- along with much more information about Star Citizen and chances to interact with its development team. As we move forward in this endeavor, you are our strongest asset; a vanguard of dedicated fans who will help us build and promote this game.

If you're one of the lucky few warriors that snuck past the Java trolls and WordPress goblins to access the pledge site yesterday, thank you so much for your dedication.

If not, we promise we’ve beaten back these evil interlopers and ask you to pledge and spread the word to make this new universe possible. We are listening to you on the forums, are committed to giving you daily updates and will be rolling out some exciting new features in the coming days that hopefully make up for our initial snafu.

We lost the opportunity to break the first day record, but the race isn’t over yet! We currently stand at $455, 590 raised from 4,564 pledges which is pretty impressive considering the outage we’ve had. Seems everyone wants the RSI Constellation and physical goodies!

But we need get this up. Space Sims trumped RPGs in the old days, let’s get a little of that inter-genre friendly rivalry back!

If you haven’t made your pledge yet, please do as I would hate for the technical problems to have derailed our initial momentum. We still have a ways to go but I have no doubt with your support we will get there. This is our chance to tell the world: PC gaming and space sims are BACK!

Chris Roberts
Cloud Imperium Games

Half a mill in two days.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Shaje on October 12, 2012, 04:39:26 PM
The idea of playing something like this with the occulus rift has me sold. Yea, its way too ambitious and just can't deliver everything promised. Don't care. It's vision is what I have wanted since watching star wars for the very first time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on October 12, 2012, 07:37:32 PM
Why does the trailer feature a ship with a landing strip? They're in space...

Hey, the Galactica had them, all of the shuttle-equipped Starships had them, and most of the latter ISDs did. Not having them in a space game would be more wierd than the more realistic tracker-beam and/or docking cones we'll probably end up going with in a few hundred years :-)

Having said that, thing I always hated in space sims was landing. Always screw them up.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ratman_tf on October 13, 2012, 08:10:38 PM
Why does the trailer feature a ship with a landing strip? They're in space...

The space fighters had jet intakes too.  :why_so_serious:

Lotta callouts to the orginal Wing Commander in that video. Vega sector, the icons on the alien ships. I hope they have talking cat people, because the Kilrathi were the best WC baddies.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yegolev on October 13, 2012, 09:15:36 PM
tracker-beam

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/85916/spock_wut.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on October 14, 2012, 03:57:04 PM
LOL. Shit, as much as a geek as I am, I'd think I'd catch that.

I could go full on nerd defensive though and claim I meant some type of object tracking technology for ships to properly target shuttles for coordinated landing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 14, 2012, 04:59:36 PM
Quote
Goal: $2,000,000
Raised: $688,128
Space Sim Fans: 7,164
Crowdfunding ends in 26 days


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on October 14, 2012, 06:42:54 PM
Not bad, but I still don't know what he thinks he can do with $2mm. Maybe finish a fully functioning playable slice to shop around for some real funding?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Goumindong on October 15, 2012, 03:20:00 AM
Why does the trailer feature a ship with a landing strip? They're in space...

Yea and why are there fighters! Why aren't ships just lobbing massive chunks of metal at each other using currently existing technology to determine the location and trajectory of ships hundreds of thousands of kilometers away?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on October 15, 2012, 07:42:23 AM
Do we know what the golden tickets do yet?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Amaron on October 15, 2012, 08:44:23 AM
Quote
Goal: $2,000,000
Raised: $688,128
Space Sim Fans: 7,164
Crowdfunding ends in 26 days

I feel like he would of gotten a million right away on kickstarter.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 15, 2012, 09:03:25 AM
Not bad, but I still don't know what he thinks he can do with $2mm. Maybe finish a fully functioning playable slice to shop around for some real funding?

AFAIK, all hes looking for is 2 mil, + the numbers of supporters to show some inverters he already has on the hook. So, its really just an interest gauge. I think I read somewhere the budget is something like 20 million.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: kaid on October 15, 2012, 09:14:47 AM
SWG Space Combat was quite awesome.  It's just they didn't have it at launch.

Though I'd still love a new Privateer.  (Military life isn't for me. ;)

I think SWG would have been a wow like hit if it had their space combat stuff in there from day one. It was a great addition but by the time they added it the people had already started the exodus.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 15, 2012, 10:08:44 AM
Various Dev quotes from the forums in response to threads:

Quote
Star Citizen – Forgettable Name – Plz change it!

Ben Lesnick:

“Interesting thread, guys! We’re watching all of this closely, of course. It mirrors the development process pretty closely… Chris was debating the name up until the very last minute possible (about a week before the announcement, when he had to start his press tour with a visit to PC Gamer… and needed a name.) Lots of late night e-mail conversations trying to pick something.

For my part, Star Citizen has grown on me an awful lot and I’m rather proud of it now. I think it’s the sort of name you’re going to appreciate a lot more once you get into the world of the game, where citizenship (and the question thereof – pirates!) and the sheer number of possible careers for players are going to be a big part of the game. Heck, it makes a lot more sense than ‘Strike Commander,’ a game that was rarely about commanding strikes…

… all of that said, I AM very amused by Joystiq’s headline about our crowd funding efforts: “Chris Roberts’ new space sim Star Citizen has already raised over $455,590 despite being called Star Citizen”

———————————————————————————————–

Difference between ‘Member’ and ‘Subscriber’?

Ben Lesnick:

“The way it should work is that subscribers are users who haven’t posted yet while members are those who have.”

———————————————————————————————–

Anyone get anything from a Support or a Dev?

VG:

“All pledges, regardless of where they were placed, will be recorded and matched to your ID. I know we might seem silent, but we are very active behind the scenes, believe me”

———————————————————————————————–

General pledging FAQs


Ben Lesnick:

“I’m working through all the support emails right now and am going to catch up on the forum posts.”

“The plan is to let you increase your pledge after the 30 days… but we may have different packages available at that time! (We’re running low on some already…)”

VG:

“Obviously, because the site went down and the backup site has been collecting pledges since Wednesday, we have a lot of data to merge, but rest assured that regardless of what email you used to register or purchase, and/or whether or not your account here works properly, your pledge will be properly credited to your account.”

———————————————————————————————–

Perma death or not

Ben Lesnick:

“The short answer is that we just don’t know yet. It’s too early to balance the game exactly.

I know Chris is very keen on the idea that death is an actual punishment; that there has to be some impact for losing your life beyond just respawning somewhere else. Whether that’s some downgrade in equipment or a loss of credits or something else is totally up in the air right now. (My guess is that your base ship is safe… wouldn’t be fair to sell you one via pledges if you could immediately lose it!)

I did watch him talking about optional insurance during one of his press interviews the other day, which is one way to do it. That would play into the whole you-take-your-own-risks/control-your-own-destiny aspect.”

 

Christopher Roberts:

“Love this thread!

I promise I will take the time to answer this in a comm-link in the near future.

My concept for the dilemma  of modern day instant re-spawn, no penalty vs. old school lose everything start at the beginning will hopefully cater to most of the view points here. Both sides of the argument are valid and I want to strike a balance. I will promise you it wont be like a modern day shooter with zero penalty but it wont be so harsh as you lose everything (well in most cases!). Your ship is a large part of who you are in this universe so there will be multiple options to make sure you don’t have to start from the beginning if you get unlucky. But in all cases it will definitely be an inconvenience if you get blasted (kind of like a car accident is even if you have insurance)!”

———————————————————————————————–

General information about ships

RSI Facebook:

“We’ll release more information on the ships soon! If you think of it like Privateer, the Aurora is the Orion, the 300i is the Galaxy and the Constellation is the Centurion…”

““The Constellation is the top of the line fighter; think the Centurion in Privateer. The big carrier is a “Bengal class” and we aren’t selling those… you’ll have to earn one in the game.  You will always have your preorder ship — no way to lose it permanently. You can also buy other ships and upgrade your starter as the game progresses.”

“…ships can be changed in the game later. You’re not locked in to one, you’re just able to start with a special one if you pledge more money. Think of starting Privateer with a Centurion instead of a Tarsus!”

———————————————————————————————–

General information about landing on planets : cut-scenes or seamless?

RSI Facebook:

“We’re looking at both options for planets. I know we’d LOVE to include atmospheric flight, but it’s a money/time issue… so I can’t promise it just yet! Thanks for your support!”

“Everything will be bigger than Freelancer! You will certainly land on planets, visit bases, etc.”

———————————————————————————————–

General information about Localization

RSI Facebook:

“ There will be localizations. Merci and Danke Schon. Thanks”

———————————————————————————————–

What are the specs going to be?

RSI Facebook:

“Too soon to know! But we’ll try and get you a rough idea in the next week.”

———————————————————————————————–

General physical goods information

RSI Facebook:

“The citizen cards are physical items that replicate something you’ll have in the game – sort of your in-game identity card.”

———————————————————————————————–

General modding information


RSI Facebook:

“Hello! Yes, the idea is that there is both a living central server that everyone can connect to AND the option for Freelancer style player-run worlds where modding/experimentation/etc. are all encouraged. We’d also like to work with the mod communities to integrate the best of the best of what they come up with on their servers into the main world.”

———————————————————————————————–

Question about Physics

Christopher Roberts:

“First post on the forums! I finally have a few spare minutes.

As someone that was taking Physics at Manchester University before I dropped out to make games full time I can assure everyone that the physics model is COMPLETELY accurate and its a full rigid body simulation. I know because I wrote the code.

Maybe I should have done a better job in the demo, but if you are flying at speed and you set your desired velocity to zero you WILL see the top front thrusters articulating and firing to slow your velocity. If you watch my demo you will notice there is some momentum with the Hornet when I slow down close to the bridge. It may not have been apparent on the screen, but I can assure the Hornet does not stop on a dime. if you load it up with more mass (like extra weapons) you feel the effect of this.

There is no drag modeled – everything is done as it would be in space.

Additionally there is actually counter thrust being applied inside the physics and if you had your hands on the controller you would feel it. If you look closely you will see the inertia of this – the ship doesn’t stop rolling or pitching on a dime. There is however a very good reason why you don’t actually see the thrusters fire entirely accurately.

The problem with visually depicting the proper thrust is that it would actually look pretty horrible (trust me this is how I first did it, and is still pretty easy to switch back to as I’m actually doing some extra work to make the visuals looks nicer).

The reason is because there is no drag in space, so even a micro amount of thrust starts the Hornet (or any spaceship) rotating until you apply counter thrust. So what is really happening is that the flight control system is always applying micro thrust and counter thrust to achieve the pilot’s inputs. This results in the thrusters flickering off oand on in micro amounts and you actually not getting a good feel of the general application of thrust. I think you know I like things to look cool (come on, we all know you probably wouldnt be engaging in space dogfights at WW2 speeds, but its so much more fun than what the reality would probably be), so what happens is that the system is still modeled accurately, but I use the angular /linear velocity delta to drive the visual represntation of thrust. Here’s my code comment

//Note the thrustGoal is actually the linear velocity delta (desired vel – current vel of
//the vehicle & rotational vel rather than the actual linear & angular acceleration / thrust.
//This is because, while inaccurate its cooler to see more constant thrust that gives
//you a visual clue as to what correctional movement / velocity vectors the vehicle is using.
//If we just used the acceleration as opposed to the desired velocity correction, the thruster flames
//would flicker on and off – especially in the Wing Commander use case of Space, where
//there is no atmosphere to provide drag.
//Of course if you pass the actual accelerations to SetThrustGoal, then you’ll get an accurate
//visual representation of what a thruster would really do

I hope that clears up any confusion!

I will admit that the ship doesn’t need to have wings or fans on the front, but the idea behind that is for possible atmospheric flight (this is not a promise of planetary action for the early build but allows for expansions in this direction), and as a RAM scoop. Plus it just looks / feels cool.”

———————————————————————————————–

Cheaters/botters be gone

Ben Lesnick:

“Interesting question, and it’s something we’re going to be thinking a LOT about in the next two years. My gut tells me that the first big anti-cheating factor in our game is the fact that it’s skill-based rather than click-based. If you want to win a space battle in Star Citizen you damn well have to handle a joystick… and as I think pretty much every air and space combat game ever has proven, you can’t be an AI and do that well.”

“I’d be a damn liar if I told you we were going to make sure it never happened ever. The fact is, there’s a segment of the audience that’s GOING to try to exploit the system and that IS going to figure out how to turn our game against us. It’s just a 100% certainty. So what I will promise is that we’re going to be a damn sight more reactive to this stuff than others have been in the past. Star Citizen is being designed so that we can update it quickly rather than rebalancing with big patches every six months. What’s more, we’re building the game WE want to play… and if someone has figured out how to mess it up, you can believe me we’re going right in and closing that loophole as fast as we can.”

———————————————————————————————–


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on October 15, 2012, 06:08:34 PM
This I will donate to.

I think SWG would have been a wow like hit if it had their space combat stuff in there from day one. It was a great addition but by the time they added it the people had already started the exodus.

Muuuusstt resist!

Eh. Can't. Space was too connected to the janky ground game to have kept the early folks from leaving.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on October 15, 2012, 11:15:12 PM
Am I the only person who thinks Star Citizen is a great name for a "Privateer Online" style game?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 17, 2012, 09:47:30 AM
Quote
To say we’ve had a lot of questions in the past five days would be an understatement. We’re hard at work on an official RSI FAQ to supplement the great work being done by users at the forums. It will have its own place at the website soon, but we wanted to go ahead and share the work-in-progress here since many of you have questions you need answered now! Please post additional questions in the comments and we will do our best to keep this updated.

My community account is not showing my pledge!

We are currently working to sync our pledge database and our community database. Your pledge will show correctly soon and we will send out a message when this process is complete. If you pledged from a different e-mail than your RSI account, we will contact you after the database sync to incorporate your pledge manually.

Is my Golden Ticket gone?

No! We have a record of your Golden Ticket and it will be returned to your account in the near future. We won’t forget our earliest fans!

Is Star Citizen an MMO?


No! Star Citizen will take the best of all possible worlds, ranging from a permanent, persistent world similar to those found in MMOs to an offline, single player campaign like those found in the Wing Commander series. The game will include the option for private servers, like Freelancer, and will offer plenty of opportunities for players who are interested in modding the content. Unlike many games, none of these aspects is an afterthought: they all combine to form the core of the Star Citizen experience.

What are the “Citizen Cards”?

Citizen Cards are physical props to prove that you have supported Star Citizen and will be one of the first pilots in space when the testing process starts. They will be wallet sized cards that you can carry with you anywhere you go. Citizen cards will also appear in the game itself, showing your character’s social standing, credit account and so on. We’re hoping to make them available to backers by Christmas 2012, so you can gift the game to friends and have something to show for it!

Can you tell me about the different ships?

We’re working on concept art right now that will show you the different levels of ships! For now, imagine the sort of ship advancement you encounered in Privateer or Freelancer, with the Aurora being the basic ship and others being improved or more specialized craft. The top-of-the-line ship in our pledge campaign is the RSI Constellation, which is a multi-person craft that includes a turret and a smaller fighter that can be manned by your friends!

How will modding work?

Players will be given full control of their game! When operating private servers, players will be able and encouraged to mod the game. It doesn’t stop there, though: we hope to institute a ‘mod approval’ process that will allow the best of the best player created ships and other additions to be integrated into the central persistent world as well.

Can I upgrade to a bigger ship?

Yes! You will always have your ‘pledge’ ship, but you can purchase and fly others to your heart’s content in the finished game. Star Citizen will feature plenty of other ships and we expect players will want to earn credits and figure out which suits their particular style of play best. You can also upgrade to a bigger ship during the crowdfunding phase by pledging additional money.

What platforms will Star Citizen be available on?

Star Citizen is a PC game through and through and could never be played on the Xbox 360, Playstation 3 or WiiU. We currently plan to support Windows and are examining our options regarding possible Linux and Macintosh releases. The Cloud Imperium team includes many Linux and Macintosh fans!

How can I work for Cloud Imperium Games?

Please e-mail hr@cloudimperiumgames.com with your information.

Will Star Citizen only be in English?

No, we plan to support many languages. A huge percentage of space sim and PC gaming fans come from Europe and especially Germany, and we want to make sure Star Citizen is accessible to everyone. The game will initially be localized to French, German and Spanish with plans to handle other languages afterwards.

Can you explain the stretch goals?

The purpose of the higher stretch goals is to ensure that the game-as-described is finished in the two year time period. We intend to build the game that Chris Roberts described at GDC Online regardless, but without additional funding we are going to have to do it one piece at a time, starting with Squadron 42, rather than as a single larger production. With more funding we can include more ships, systems, unique locations, animations and cinematic sequences.

Why Direct And No Publisher?

Publishers are useful in the old physical distribution world, but the Internet is the great equalizer. Notch didn’t need a publisher to reach 20-million Minecraft fans. Riot games didn’t need a publisher to reach 30-million League of Legends players, and Wargaming.net didn’t need a publisher to reach 20-million World of Tanks gamers. If we were building a big “AAA” console game it would be crazy to try without a publisher. But we want to build a PC game and publishers increase costs because of their need to recoup their sizable overhead cost. We want to make sure all the money raised goes directly to the development of the game. So we’re throwing ourselves on the mercy of the PC gamers out there that share our vision and passion for the platform and the space combat genre to raise money outside of the “cartel” of traditional publishers. The game will cost less, be more creatively pure, and, most importantly, be built for the real “core” audience – not some corporate suit worried about including all the casual gamers.

Is Star Citizen “free to play”? A subscription game?

To play Star Citizen you need only to buy the initial game. There will never be a monthly charge for usage. Some in-game items may be available as microtransactions, but we will NEVER sell anything that can’t be acquired through honest (and fun!) gameplay.

What will the gameplay be like?

Star Citizen will feature gameplay similar to the original Wing Commander and Privateer, with a more realistic physics system. This means that it is NOT a ‘click to kill’ interface like most modern MMOs; your success in combat is going to depend as much on your skill with a space fighter as it will with your ship upgrades and your pocket book.

Why not Kickstarter?

We love Kickstarter. We’ve backed projects on their site, and believe everyone in the development community owes a debt to Kickstarter for putting crowd funding on the map, and making it legitimate. But for us the ultimate goal of crowd funding is about connecting the “crowd” directly with the creators with as little friction as possible. By building a crowd funding component directly into our site we can insure everyone who wants to back the game can – we provide multiple payment options to make sure that wherever in the world you are there is an option that can work for you. It means you just have one destination to support the project, read updates, and most importantly participate with other members of the community! All on a site that’s designed around the game universe being created, providing the least friction possible. Kickstarter, as great as it is, can’t deliver this experience, which is why we’ve decided to go it alone.

Can you estimate the system requirements for Star Citizen?

There will be a lot of optimization in the next 24-months, plus the usual fast pace of technology, so it is hard to say absolutely. At the moment you will be able to play it on a 4GB dual core PC with a GTX 460 or greater, but not with full fidelity. If you’re running an i7 2500, 2600, 2700 or better with a GTX 670 or greater you will get the full experience and we will only scale up from there. You will need a dedicated GPU. Since the game is built on CryEngine, their system requirements will stay roughly the same as ours.

Link (http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/draft-faq/)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 18, 2012, 02:22:30 PM
Now on kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/). Rather open video to go with it.

Star Citizen adds Kickstarter! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zN5q7sBKmc&feature=youtu.be)




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Trippy on October 18, 2012, 02:58:25 PM
Am I the only person who thinks Star Citizen is a great name for a "Privateer Online" style game?
Possibly. Being a citizen of a single star doesn't seem all that exciting to me (i.e. we Earthlings right now are "star citizens"). "Stellar Citizen" would be better, IMO.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on October 18, 2012, 03:25:27 PM
Now on kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/). Rather open video to go with it.

Star Citizen adds Kickstarter! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zN5q7sBKmc&feature=youtu.be)
So they built a huge, redundant, unnecessary system to collect donations that crashed on them their first day when there was already a perfectly viable solution available, then they changed their minds and are now using it in addition to their own?

That bodes well for the success of the actual project.

Also, anything that you are this excited about is doomed to fail.  I don't know why, you just seem attracted to things that don't work.  You are like a litmus test for disaster.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on October 18, 2012, 04:02:27 PM
words
You are like a litmus test for disaster.

OMG..... You might be right. Please go out and support Romney. You have an amazing superpower... USE IT WELL!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on October 18, 2012, 04:05:31 PM
Also do they have pictures of the ships for the various levels anywhere?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on October 18, 2012, 11:36:22 PM
There's a term to made up for manipulating Kickstarter as a promotions tool, since, "Game X appears on Kickstarter!" is easy copy for blogs to write. Which you want so that more people pour money into the Kickstarter.

I didn't look - if Star Citizen fails to hit its target on their own site, are they refunding the money or keeping it?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on October 19, 2012, 06:41:44 AM
There's a term to made up for manipulating Kickstarter as a promotions tool, since, "Game X appears on Kickstarter!" is easy copy for blogs to write. Which you want so that more people pour money into the Kickstarter.

I didn't look - if Star Citizen fails to hit its target on their own site, are they refunding the money or keeping it?

Refunding it minus a transaction fee (or something) assuming you ticked the 'yes refund me' box when you pledged


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on October 19, 2012, 08:27:23 AM
They're past half-way to their original goal on their own site, and looking to break the Kickstarter goal in a few days.  I doubt refunds will be an issue.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 19, 2012, 02:35:35 PM
Exclusive Interview: Star Citizen's Chris Roberts - Mittani (http://themittani.com/features/exclusive-interview-star-citizens-chris-roberts)

Quote
Yesterday afternoon, Chris Roberts (of Wing Commander, Freelancer and Privateer fame) was down to visit another studio to share ‘war stories’ regarding CryEngine 2. On his way back home, he decided to give me a ring and talk a bit about Star Citizen, Eve Online, and the future of space sims while braving the dangerous I-405.

Star Citizen is a newly announced space simulator game with ambitious, if not outright grandiose, goals. Featuring a full single player campaign (with coop mode possible), multiplayer private space combat servers, an entirely moddable interface as well as a public, persistent online universe, Star Citizen seems to promise something for everyone even vaguely interested in playing internet spaceships. Of course, with any ambitious plan there are always doubters, naysayers and (dare we say it) even haters - but Chris Roberts is unfazed by these facts of life. His enthusiasm and belief in the vision of Star Citizen goes back many years and will not be stopped any time soon.

For those of us that have seen the announcement trailer and subsequent footage to come out, it seems like a hugely exciting project. How long have you been working on the game so far?

Chris: Basically I’ve been working with a small team over the course of the past year to get the early prototyping and production done. The team has varied in scale from just me, essentially, to about 10 people. That’s just the actual work though.

Star Citizen is the game, essentially, that I wanted to make when I was working on Freelancer. A very big game, with both single player and multiplayer, a game that you could play with other people on a large scale. I feel I never really got to realize that dream. Microsoft was the publisher of Freelancer and at the time was very focused on getting the Xbox developed, as well as titles for it. I never got to do Freelancer the way I wanted to - it has always felt like a bit of unfinished business.

If EA didn’t hold the rights to the Wing Commander franchise and you somehow ended up with them, would Star Citizen be called something like ‘Wing Commander Online’, or do you feel that the game is essentially different from Wing Commander or Freelancer to the point that you would have renamed it anyways?

Yes, if I somehow owned the rights to Wing Commander still, this would definitely be Wing Commander: Star Citizen or something like that. Star Citizen really is the spiritual successor to all of my work with Wing Commander, Freelancer and Privateer. If I had to sum it up, it is essentially Wing Commander and Privateer blended together.

You have stated that you expect to have an Alpha up and going in about 12 months, with a beta roughly 10 months after that and then launch. For a game of this size and scope, do you think you can really be done in the next two years?

Really it is all about constant iteration from launch. The whole idea is to be constantly updating. It isn’t like the old days where you had to have everything and the kitchen sink in at launch because you weren’t going to come back to it for awhile. We’re already one year in - another two years puts us at 3 total which is ideal. Any more and things would begin to get stale.

Speaking of constant updates, you’ve stated that you would like to roll out updates on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. How sustainable is that vision and what kind of investment of resources do you foresee that taking?

Obviously we would scale up the staff over time until, once live, we have about 20-30 people generating content, not counting high-level development of new features. The idea is to set up a structure for the players to use and add in new content as the spice, where the player-generated content is the meat. Eve Online does this very well. You don’t want to be like [Star Wars] The Old Republic, where all your content is heavily scripted.

Implementing more intelligent procedural systems as in real life, driving player behavior, and then sprinkling in some studio developed story content is what will give us the longevity we need.

You mention Eve Online and obviously have some knowledge of it. Have you played it, or just followed its progress?

I have played Eve a little bit but never really got hardcore into it. I’m more of an in-the-cockpit kind of guy. The game concepts, the ideas that CCP has put out - they have done a great job of it. They are the only ones, really, holding the fortress for space [games]. As for playing Eve, it is really a matter of scale. For myself, I would rather be in a cockpit as opposed to flying a big freighter or something from a distance.

There are obviously some close similiraties on a conceptual level between Star Citizen and Eve Online. How much has CCP’s progress with EVE impacted your current development of Star Citizen?

The main thing is that they proved it could work. Eve Online is a bit larger scale, but has most of the same stuff as when I was pitching Freelancer. Dynamic universe, player driven interaction, etc. CCP has done a really good job of proving that the concept works. What I want to do now is basically make Star Citizen the Call of Duty to Eve Online’s Company of Heroes, in that Star Citizen will give more of a first person, in the moment experience while Eve Online provides a strategic point of view.

The thing that would be really cool, for me, is to have player’s making their own groups like in Eve. My ideal scenario would be something like one player setting himself up as some kind of Criminal Overlord out in the fringes of space, with an asteroid base and hired [player] muscle, harrying other people. Then those other people band together to go take out the Criminal Overlord and his group in order to maintain their own safety or profits.

[Editor’s Note: At this point in the interview, things nearly came off the rails as a typical LA area driver decided it would be a good time to slam on their brakes for no apparent reason. After confirming that Mr. Roberts was alright, we continued...]

You have planned many ways for players of Star Citizen to make a living, including trading and mining. Mining in Eve is literally one of the dullest experiences in modern gaming. What are you planning to make mining something fun to do?

[Laughter] Mining and trading will take some level of actual flying skill, whereas in Eve you are just sort of clicking a button every once in awhile to make money. It’s sort of like playing Farmville and I hate that stuff. I feel that the first person, active flying experience in Star Citizen will turn, for instance, a boring trade run from Eve Online into a more immersive and exciting experience.

Other games in the past have sought to provide a sort of two-part game, though not on the same level as we will see in Star Citizen with its Squadron 42 component (referring to the single player/coop mode of the game). In particular Age Of Conan springs to mind. However, AOC was fairly terrible, as the first 10 or 20 levels was fully voice acted, really high quality content - and then there was nothing. Could you go more in depth as to how the Squadron 42 aspect integrates with the overall Star Citizen universe?


I know just what you mean. I played Age of Conan and yeah, the beginning was really cool then you seemed to really run out of content. We’re definitely going to avoid that with Star Citizen. Squadron 42 is going to be the kind of military campaign, a linear campaign, reminiscent of Wing Commander. Something where, if you only have a little bit of time or you just don’t want to deal with everyone else trying to backstab you. You’re in the military and you go out on these missions. Once you finish your tour of duty, you muster out into the open universe and pursue your goals. In the end, players may prefer one or the other, in which case they will just have to wait for more content to be put out.

Star Citizen also has plans to enable privately hosted servers that can run mods of the game, either in coop campaign mode or as a small scale space combat server. Will players be able to transfer characters between these private servers and the persistent universe hosted by yourself? How is that interaction going to be handled?

You know, I really don’t have a good answer for that right now, its a bit of a problem that we’re working on ironing out. Probably you will only end up being able to transfer your character itself, not any of the money you earn on the private server or the ships you acquire. The whole point of the public persistent universe is to make sure people stay honest and are coming by their goods legitimately. You won’t be able to mod yourself a megaship in a private server and then take it out into the universe.

The most recent FAQ put up on the Star Citizen website definitively states that Star Citizen is not an MMO. Obviously, with single player and private hosted servers, it isn’t just an MMO, but doesn’t the online persistent universe make it an MMO in some way?

To be honest, all these classifications are a bit silly. We stated it isn’t an MMO because when people hear ‘MMO’ they think of subscriptions and World of Warcraft. We wanted to reassure old Wing Commander and Privateer fans that this they wouldn’t have to pay a subscription to play a game they love. Obviously at no point does this mean you won’t be able to play with your friends - who doesn’t want to do that? It is an MMO in the aspect of having a big, massive galaxy, a persistent universe, that sort of thing. But it will also have a full single player game, so it isn’t always an MMO.

What kind of consequences will there be for death in Star Citizen? Can your ‘flesh and blood’ avatar be killed?

Well, when your ship blows up, you’ll be floating out in space and someone can pick you up and take you to the nearest space station or planet. There will be things like insurance for your ship and even for your cargo in the event of its demise, but there will also be things like tariffs and taxes in the safer parts of the galaxy - someone has to pay for that protection. So in some parts you won’t need insurance, but will pay taxes. In others you won’t pay taxes, but will definitely need insurance. It is sort of like the real world - if you live in a bad neighborhood, you pay more in insurance. In Star Citizen, insurance rates will vary depending on where you get it.

I like setting up the world and letting the players gravitate towards whatever they want to do. As a developer, you are always surprised by what the players want to and eventually end up doing.

You plan on having Star Citizen not only support the typical mouse, keyboard, joystick and gamepad that you find in PC gaming, but also things like rudder pedals, flight chairs and the Oculus Rift. Why go to such great lengths to support equipment that isn’t that prevalent, and what kind of impact will this have on development costs?


I feel like I’m making a game for the enthusiast. If someone not only spent the money on a gaming PC to play Star Citizen, but also dropped 100, 200 dollars on some other equipment, I want to be able to say to them ‘You paid for it, you should be able to use it’.

In terms of development time, it doesn’t take much. Input is input and if I didn’t think we could accommodate all those different types of peripherals, I wouldn’t have the support in the game.

Earlier today you launched a Kickstarter campaign after previously going with your own crowdfunding solution. How is all of that going?


Well, the website had some issues when we first announced the game. People weren’t able to see their pledges right away and I’m sure some weren’t comfortable going with just some website. I like Kickstarter a lot, I’ve supported multiple projects on Kickstarter, so when we had these issues Kickstarter came to us and said ‘how can we help?’. They’ve been excellent at helping expedite the process of getting a Kickstarter set up for people that want to use them.

Not using Kickstarter to begin with was never about saving the 5% fee they charge or anything like that. It was about making pledging as frictionless as possible for those who were already supporters of the site and the game.

Any parting words for the Eve Online community or in general?

If Eve players are interested in more of a first person, spaceship type of experience, it would be awesome if they backed Star Citizen. I really want to show the big publishers that there is significant demand not just for space games, but for PC games as well, and that people love them!

Thanks very much for taking the time to talk to us!

So there you have it - words straight from Chris Roberts. To find out more about Star Citizen I highly recommend checking out the website for the game. Unlike some that stay stagnant for weeks or months while in development, Mr. Roberts is committed to putting out updates on various aspects of the game as often as possible.

And if, as Mr. Roberts said, you fancy yourself a bit of a cockpit kind of guy like him - definitely back the project. It has raised over $1 million USD on the RSI/Star Citizen website itself in about a week and an additional $100,000+ on Kickstarter (in just a few hours).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on October 19, 2012, 07:53:44 PM
Just to say, as of this moment the donation totals are:

$1,137,872 12,582 backers on RSI's own page
$215,185 / 5,155 backers on Kickstarter

Total: $1,353,057 / 17,737 backers


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Simond on October 20, 2012, 08:03:53 AM
Odds on EA suddenly deciding that the time is right to revive the "Wing Commander" name at some point in the next year or two?
They could just give it to one of the Biowares and have them churn something out for it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on October 20, 2012, 11:58:44 AM
Wing Commander the Old Republic?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Amaron on October 20, 2012, 03:29:00 PM
Odds on EA suddenly deciding that the time is right to revive the "Wing Commander" name at some point in the next year or two?

They would shoehorn fighters into Mass Effect instead.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on October 20, 2012, 04:58:49 PM
I agree. With Shepard reportedly not being in ME4, I'm curious where the series will go. If it's just post Reaper mop-up, that's years right there while alliances fall apart and enemies become strong again. But then, I didn't hate that ground truck thing from ME1 as much as apparently other people did. :-)

I was always curious why in all the main games and DLC, there was never actually any real space in the game. I'm not sure it absolutely needed it (which I guess is one reason right there). But it woulda been nice to have been part of the final space battle over Earth, or even to have had to do some type of game-y thing to fire the BFG at the Collector ship near the end of 2.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on October 20, 2012, 06:42:59 PM
With Shepard reportedly not being in ME4, I'm curious where the series will go.

The obvious answer is 50-100 years in the future, when everyone's recovered from the destruction of the relays. If that's still in the neo-retro-double-plus-remix ending, I don't even know.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on October 21, 2012, 08:37:20 PM
That's another good point. There are three possible immediate futures: no humans, no reapers/technology, or synthesis. They can't afford three different universes that reflect those three states, much less how they evolve differently in 50-100 years.

That makes me think even more of "meanwhile, elsewhere in the galaxy" type setting. Or a completely different galaxy. Or the past. Or they're forced for business reasons to hamfist a convergence that basically says whatever your choice, it all led to something else: synthesis failed, the humans weren't really detroyed (we were just kidding), and 50-100 years again we achieve roughly the same level of technology we had before oh and figured out how to reactivate the mass effect gateways because branding must be maintained.

I should say though that I'm ok with all that. I found the universe interesting and would stick with it as long as quality content continues comes along.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on October 21, 2012, 10:22:18 PM
Donation watch, because I'm being a nerd.

$1,247,462 / 13,867 backers on RSI
$360,222 / 8,100 backers on Kickstarter

Total: $1,607,684 / 21,967 backers (+$254,627 and 4230 backers since Friday night)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Shaje on October 22, 2012, 09:28:09 AM
With 18 days to go, RSI should feel pretty good about this. Adding the kickstarter option probably saved this project.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 22, 2012, 09:32:36 AM
Quotes taken from Josh Strike, UI Designer at Cloud Imperium for HUD's as used in Star Citizen
Quote

POST 1

    Hi all, I just wanted to introduce myself. I’m the designer/coder for the Star Citizen HUD and additional 2D elements. While a good deal of my work wasn’t integrated in time for the live demo, that was largely because what we’ve been doing has pushed the limits of Scaleform and CryENGINE – and is radically different from the standard game HUD formula that’s prevailed for the last decade.

    Taking inspiration from previous Chris Roberts ship controls, nothing in our work is similar to the templates you’ve seen in more recent games; it’s been engineered from the ground up to deliver an unparalleled degree of control and detail to the pilot. Chris is an inspiring guy to work for, and I’m honored to have been picked for the job. We aren’t cutting any corners.

    All the elements of the HUD systems we’ve developed are based on procedural algorithms and can be customized to different ships and styles to a huge degree of depth and flexibility, keeping the scope of the universe in mind. My task is to pack as much useful information as possible into tight, clear displays, to give pilots those crucial visual cues that can mean the difference between life and death in a dogfight.

    The HUD will be your friend, and learning to read it reflexively will shave crucial milliseconds off your reaction time. Sometimes it feels more like I’m developing an avionics package for the military than for a game! For my qualifications, I have 15 years in Flash/Flex development, including dozens of casual games and a custom gaming platform for a Bitcoin site I operate. I’m very much a DIY, self-employed developer, and this is my first team effort in over ten years. But this is a game I’m dying to play, and I couldn’t say no… I’ve been a fan of Chris’s work since I was a kid playing Wing Commander, and it’s a dream job for me to work with the team he’s assembled.

    There are lots of reasons to pledge to this project, but one of the best (in my view) is that the authenticity of the flying/fighting experience is going to be unparalleled. I can confirm that all the pieces are in place to ensure that it will be – and as for the avionics, I think this HUD will be the gold standard in “AAA” games for the next decade or longer. I hope to hear your feedback as we go along, and thank you all for showing your support and helping to building this awesome game!

POST 2

    I’m looking forward to showing off the design, and I’ll see if we can’t get a sneak peek in here pretty soon! You can catch a tiny bit of it in the “Immersion” video at [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVua...&>feature=relmfu which shows some of the earliest integrations of marks, radar and ship displays when you climb into the cockpit. Although this is just the tip of the iceberg, you’ll notice the screen displays there look quite a bit different from anything in the other videos. What you’re seeing (for HUD-skeptics) are functional components with a lot of data layers and controls built in, but they aren’t engaged >yet in that video.

    Mea culpa, by the way. I was trying to do something that hadn’t been done before, which was part of the reason we missed our integration target, which is most of the reason why the targeting reticles and gun pips weren’t in for the live demo (which is why Chris missed the enemy ship — and why some people seem to doubt the HUD exists). But I promise the end result is well worth it; you’ve never seen this stuff in a HUD before, because we had to rewrite parts of the CryENGINE/Scaleform integration code and roll a whole bunch of new graphics methods just to make it work.

    I’ll shut up now before I say too much, and leave it to Chris to make the big announcements

POST 3

    Thanks for such a warm welcome! Can’t believe so many people stopped by to say hi while I was sleeping. I’m by no means able to answer all the questions, and I should be getting back to work :P but I guess I can give you all another good teaser…

    I’m seeing a lot of questions about 2D vs. 3D displays, and about 3D HMDs vs. cockpit-projected HUDs. In fact, Chris made the decision to use all three types in Star Citizen from the beginning.

    There’s a fixed holographic projection within the cockpit, which overlays things that don’t move with your head, e.g. velocity, acceleration, attitude, altitude, heading and targeting data. This projection has depth for greater effect (along the lines of what you see in that Scaleform promotional video), and also uses some (non-essential) stereoscopic depth cues to assist the pilot in reading certain situations more quickly. You don’t need an Oculus to get all the same info, but I’m not saying the depth cues won’t give you a slight edge.

    In addition to that, there’s a separate projection on the inside of the pilot’s helmet which can be loaded up with with deeper data sets (e.g. ship status, weapons selection, power balancing, navigation maps, communications, etc). This HMD projection stays in your field of vision when you turn your head.

    Finally, elements from both of these projections can be shunted to the flat LCD displays or brought back up to their respective projection, and have been designed to shift shape, color and opacity, and/or break into separate elements, depending on whether they’re being displayed on a flat screen or holographically. So yeah, there was definitely some inspiration from Minority Report and Iron Man, but at the same time these elements are very much in the CR space sim style, and my primary goal is to remain true to his original vision.

    I should stress that these projection layers exist, and about 80% of the gizmos are fully functional; in tests, they have been added to the projections and screens and run successfully with dummy data. The part that’s not yet complete is the full integration that sends active environmental data to the components. The HUD is a platform in itself with 62 custom classes and a 20-page API manual so far. There are hundreds of data points that need to be connected up to the ship’s systems, so we’re still in the process of getting the cockpit fully “wired”.

    And no, we’re not deviating from the classic polar-mapped radar screen! But we’ve added some nice touches like sector heat mapping, and ship-on-your-tail alerts.

    Additionally, someone asked me about incorrect and/or damaged displays. Every element in our HUD responds to damage. As Chris built the fly-by-wire system to procedurally handle an infinite range of ship states based on damage to various components, that philosophy was extended to have damage also rendered procedurally in the HUD. Just as one example, text in the HUD is not pre-rendered or even generated on the fly as a block; it’s printed procedurally to the displays one character at a time, with a greater likelihood of transcription error (or garbled transmission) depending on specific damage to your avionics or communications systems. Response to damage is a bedrock feature of every element in the HUD and has a negative impact on boot times, data latency and accuracy. If this sounds like something not recommended in a scaleform project, it isn’t – and they said it was crazy – but we’ve refactored, honed and optimized it to work.

    So, I’ll end it here before I give away all my tricks, but I’ll drop back in from time to time. Meanwhile, stay tuned for the next vid!"

POST 4 (21.10.12)

    Good luck to all of us!

    I just want to say, as far as modding the HUD, a lot of things (e.g. colors, custom drawing styles) are written to be extremely moddable. I imagine custom skins will be an early addition. Totally custom HUDs that include unique ship configurations are probably further down the road. We’ve overcome some major technical hurdles with Scaleform in terms of getting all of our procedural elements to work, although the trade-off is that we had to mod the SDK a bit so it’s not as easy to compile these things in. But the HUD is made to be very, very flexible… we’ve already got some in-house programs written to ease the process of integrating new elements and new ships… so I do think community modding of the HUD is ultimately in the cards.

    Also: Personally, and not speaking for RSI, I’m a big fan of Privateer, and the exploration/trading side of things (although with some good dogfights to spice it up). Actually one of my favorite games from back in the day was Starflight, which was pretty much all about that. I still have great memories the planetary analysis that would piece together the atmospheric and mineral composition of new planets you’d orbit. My 9-year-old best friend and I (can’t resist linking to him) decided to start a software company to build an open universe after playing that game, which ended a year later with a journal full of dozens of solar systems and a bunch of hypercard stacks.

    So from my perspective, civilian uses for the HUD and ship’s systems are absolutely crucial as well, and they won’t be neglected in Star Citizen. It’s one of the reasons I’m thrilled to be part of the team.

Source

http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/forums/topic/hello-from-one-of-the-devs/

Example Vid of Scaleform

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zKDuzVbi50Q#!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on October 23, 2012, 08:49:46 PM
Their Kickstarter has succeeded. $502,036 from 11,096 backers, with 26 days left on the clock.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on October 23, 2012, 09:30:18 PM
The investors actually paying for the bulk of Star Citizen's development will be delighted.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on October 25, 2012, 06:14:47 AM
It would appear that, between the official site and Kickstarter, the $2mil milestone has now been reached

I do think that the costs for adding additional ships to an existing pledge are too high though :-(


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 25, 2012, 09:26:04 AM
Interview: Chris Roberts Gives Us a Glimpse on Star Citizen and Squadron 42


link (http://www.dualshockers.com/2012/10/24/interview-chris-roberts-gives-us-a-glimpse-on-star-citizen-and-squadron-42)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 25, 2012, 12:56:54 PM
Star Citizen Ships Development Document (http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/ships-plan/)

And, the project is funded:

Quote
Hello everyone!

Less than two weeks ago, I reached out to the gaming community to help me prove that the PC game wasn’t dead. That there was still an audience for the kind of games I created with Wing Commander and Freelancer. To prove that Space Combat wasn’t finished as a genre

I hoped that the answer would be yes, that the demand would be there and that it would come together in a way that would ultimately let me build the world I have been dreaming about for many years.

What I didn’t expect was how quickly it all happened.

Last night, just four and half days after our Kickstarter campaign launched, we passed the $500,000 mark, making it successfully funded, and another Kickstarter success story.

As I write this we are less than $50,000 from reaching the RSI goal of $2 million in overall pledges that makes Star Citizen a “go”. It’s unbelievable.

I’m proud to represent this cause and I’m tremendously humbled by the incredible community that has rallied to my side. Not just the donations–which have been astounding –but also the stories and the creativity I’ve encountered interacting with you in the comments and on the message boards and elsewhere. Like me, you have all seen Star Citizen, no matter what you may have called it, in your head for many years… and thanks to your collected efforts; I’m going to build it for you.

I have two pieces of information to share with you tonight. The first is the long-awaited design document about Star Citizens five pledge ships. Time and time again you’ve asked what an Aurora or a Hornet or a Constellation is. I’m happy now to be able to share our design concepts. These are the specifications we’re building on as we create the game world and they’re the descriptions I have sent to the artists who are putting together the ship models. Normally you wouldn’t see this kind of inside information, especially not this early, but I hope you will find it interesting and get a kick out of getting an insider’s view of how game development works.

The second piece of news is the news that you can finally upgrade your pledges at RobertsSpaceIndustries.com. If you’ve decided you would like to upgrade to a higher tier of ship or if you would like to increase your support for the project for any other reason, you now have that option. In addition we have heard you loud and clear on the Forums, on Kickstarter, Facebook and on the recent poll. You want the ability to add additional ships to your base package. So we’ve given you that option too. I hope you’ll enjoy seeing our plans for these ships and then choosing the one that best fits how you want to play the game.

Tomorrow, we’re going to be adding additional information about stretch goals… more specific levels and in-game rewards that you can achieve. In the near future we will have the upgraded forums online and we will start opening additional content at the RSI website. There’s a lot to look forward to!

So, pilots: we’ve won our first furball! But, there’s plenty more work to do. Let’s knock out the $2M in overall pledges that green lights Star Citizen, then set our sights on the stretch goals. The more of these we can hit, the richer and more varied the game I can deliver. We’re less than half way through the campaign, so I know we can go much further. If you’ve already backed, spread the word. If you’re still waiting to, then please join the cause.

Thank you, truly, for your unbelievable support. We have $45,840 to go! We can get there by MORNING!

Chris Roberts


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Rasix on October 25, 2012, 12:58:03 PM
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/82533/tumblr_m9snikkOyp1revsmeo1_400.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 25, 2012, 01:00:30 PM
You did not think it would reach its goals?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Rasix on October 25, 2012, 02:11:42 PM
Dial the shillage back a tiny bit. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on October 25, 2012, 02:15:40 PM
More importantly, find another game to love.  I want this one to turn out well.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on October 25, 2012, 02:23:54 PM


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 25, 2012, 02:55:53 PM
Dial the shillage back a tiny bit.  

How is posting articles and news about a game I am following shillage?



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on October 25, 2012, 09:35:11 PM
I think Rasix is referring more to Chris Roberts.

The "now that we're funded, so only now can I release some details about the pledge ships that are utterly meaningless in a title that is years from launch" was a nice touch though.

But now the only thing to do is to wait for Roberts to deliver on every one of his promises.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on November 08, 2012, 04:17:59 AM
In an act of shameless slef promotion if anyone was planning to pledge to this and hasn't yet done so there is now a referral scheme operating, let me know if you're interested and I'll send you my referral URL


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 14, 2012, 11:17:48 AM
Star Citizen - FINAL WEEK PUSH (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp_eYvXhx5c&feature=youtu.be)

Star Citizen - Pilot AI Work In Progress  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuynSgAvleo&feature=youtu.be&hd=1)

The following for me personally, has been something I have wanted clarification about.

Quote
Hi everyone!

I get a lot of questions about how the whole persistent universe works and what I mean when I talk about battle instances.

I’ve given some answers but as it keeps coming up, I thought it would be good to give all of you a longer description in how this all works and fits together.

One of my goals with Star Citizen was to create a huge open world that you could adventure in solo, with your friends, mingling with NPCs and other real people.

Freelancer was built to have up to 128 players in multiplayer, but as a few of you know that was more a theoretical maximum than something that was really practical, especially back in 2003.  When I started building Freelancer, partly inspired by the work done on Ultima Online (which was in development when I was still at Origin), the fun I was having playing multiplayer games like Command & Conquer  and Diablo I had wanted to bring the Privateer experience into the bold new world of multiplayer.  My original vision for Freelancer was to first release a single player game and then follow it up with massively multiplayer version with a dynamic economy and a world that reacted and adapted to the players actions.

I didn’t get a chance to deliver this vision and ultimately while Freelancer was a good game, it fell short of what I was aiming for.

With Star Citizen I was determined to combine what I wanted to achieve with Freelancer, with the personal experience that I think both Wing Commander and Privateer were so strong with.

But me being me, I wanted to combine things I like about the promise of a MMO, but avoid the aspects that I’m not so keen on like splintered player groups, griefing and grinding. I also was really impressed with how Demon’s Souls merged the single player experience with the multiplayer side.

 

All of this helped form my thinking on how Star Citizen is going to balance the difficult balancing act between multiplayer and single player.

All multiplayer games – whether they are a persistent world massively multiplayer game (MMO) like World of Warcraft or just an online multiplayer game like Battlefield 3 – have a limit to the number of players that can be active in anyone area or level. This number is usually inversely proportional to the amount of data that needs to go between the client and the server. For a game with complex physics and a fully destructible terrain, like Battlefield 3 the number of players that can active in an instance is less than a game with less real time fidelity like WoW, or Eve on Line.  But in all cases there are always more players than any one server instance can handle. For a persistent multiplayer world like WoW the solution is to split up the player base into more manageable groups called “shards”, which are a permanent instance of the universe that look after a certain amount of players.

One thing I don’t like about most MMO structures is the fragmentation of the player base between these “shards”. If you had joined much later than a friend of yours, there may not be room on his world instance anymore and you have to join another parallel one and so cannot play together. This is one of the nice things about the Eve Online design – everyone plays in the same universe.

In Star Citizen there is going to be one persistent universe server that everyone exists on. So you will never be separated from your friends, and if you want you’ll be able to join up and adventure together, you can.  Due to the fidelity of the dogfighting and physics simulation we can’t however handle thousands of players in the same area of space. Even if you had enough internet bandwidth to handle the data going back and forth and a super computer for the server there’s no PC, even with quad SLI that could render that many spaceships with Star Citizen’s fidelity.

So the “magic” of Star Citizen’s multiplayer design is how we combine a persistent universe with a more traditional (and easier to implement) temporary multiplayer “battle” instance.

The way it works is that the persistent universe server, which we’re calling the Galaxy Server, keeps track of all players’ assets, group relationships and locations inside the Star Citizen universe. As the Galaxy server isn’t handling any realtime action it can handle our complete player base, which right now would be about 45,000 players, but is designed to be able to scale to millions if need be. The other key thing the Galaxy Server does is dynamically place players based on their location, skill level, alignment and player versus player (PvP) preference into battle instances. Think of a “battle” instance like a Battlefield 3 multiplayer session or a World of Tanks Battle with the key difference that the selection of players is done transparently and is “in fiction”.

An illustration of how this would work is like this –

I start out planet side on New Pittsburg. I decide to buy a few tonnes of steel to fly to the shipyards of Terra. I’m currently in the hands of the galaxy server that communicates with my client and handles my purchases and interactions on the planet as these are not real time in the manner that the space action is. We render these in the manner of Freelancer, as detailed 3D environments where we see a third person view of our character in a location and we can click on Non Player Characters (NPCs) or terminals to buy / sell, upgrade your ship, get gossip, hear about a mission and so on.  You’ll also be able to interact with other players via a chat interface. We haven’t fully worked out the player avatar handling planet side but the bar or private clubs will be where you can meet / chat to other players. Besides populating the bar with NPCs, the game will also populate the bar with other players. If there are more players planet side than there are slots of avatars in the bar the ones visible to you will be based off your friends list and then it will be based on relevance to you – a player looking for a wingman, one from a similar group, or maybe someone that you’ve been given a mission to find or hunt down. You will also be able to see the full list of players in the room if there are more players than there are slots. Default would be a drop down list for this, but as I hate anything that breaks the immersion, we’ll probably come up with a better in fiction way of seeing the list of players – maybe you tell the bartender who you’re looking for, maybe you can look at the door list for the bar.

Having bought my cargo I launch into space. If there are players already in orbit there will be an orbit instance already created. If it’s not full then I will be placed into that. If it is full then a new one will be dynamically created. All orbit (and battle) instances reserve slots for friends and persons of interest (POI), which can be NPCs or other players, so if you’ve launched and there are multiple orbit instances and you have friends already in orbit you should be placed into that instance. This is also the dynamic that will be applied if you want to follow another player – you can “tag” them as a POI and then the game will do its best to place you in the same instance as your POI. For instance if you tagged someone planet side and they launch your PDA with its future version of Siri will notify you that your POI is leaving, giving you a window to launch into space too.

Once in orbit I can pull up my Navigation computer and set a course for my destination. If its several systems away like Terra, the nav computer will chart a course through the relevant jump points. You will be able to adjust this like on Google maps, so if you click a different jump point on the system map it will then re-route you on the shortest path to your destination with that jump point as the first “jump”

Once I’ve plotted my nav course I would then engage auto-pilot and head towards my first “way” point on the path to my destination (a jump point, an interim space feature, like an asteroid belt and so on). At this point I’ve been handed back to the Galaxy Server, which is determining whether I will encounter a hostile, someone that has tagged me as a POI, or a predetermined encounter on the way, or if I’m going to run across ongoing battle instance that is relevant to me (some members of the instance are aligned against or with me). These encounters could be with an NPC or a live player(s) and are sorted on skill level and also – which is important to all of you that like a more single player experience and don’t want to deal with griefers – based on your player versus player (PvP) preference. So if you’ve set your game settings to be low PvP and you’re in a relatively safe area, you’ll likely have an NPC (PvE) encounter as opposed to a PvP one. Of course your ranking and any reputation you earn won’t be the same with a PvE encounter versus a PvP. My hope for this dynamic is that it will allow people to first play Star Citizen in a safer more single player open world style, but as they grow in confidence and want to test their mettle against other real players they can take the training wheels off and get into battles with real players. There will also be areas of the universe that no matter what your PvP setting is, will be PvP. These will be systems that are on the fringes of the policed galaxy and will be notorious for pirate and other illegal activity. They will also be the most lucrative areas – if you can survive.

Now if you’re flying with your friends, who you can link to via the game POI “tagging” system, they will be with you when you’re pulled into a battle instance, whether it is against NPCs, real players or a combination of both.

Once the Galaxy Server has determined that you will have an encounter based on the above criteria it either dynamically creates a battle instance, or puts you in one if one already exists at the encounter point, and that instance has room for new players.  To exit this instance you either have to resolve the hostilities by defeating who’s targeting you, negotiating an exit or just outrunning them. Once in an instance you can put out a distress call to your friends. There are two ways people on your friends list (or squadron as we’re going to call it) can help. We save slots in all instances for friends to warp in to fight. To do this they need to be in the same system. If they are they can autopilot in to your rescue and will be dropped into the instance. If they’re not in the star system, if they can get to your system before the battle is over then they can join (but will only be able to join once they’ve reached your system). The second way for your friends to help out is by “dropping in” on your ship. This only works if it’s a multi person vehicle like the RSI Constellation. In this scenario they don’t need to be in your system, they just will drop in inside your ship and will be able to move around in first person, climbing into a turret to man it, or jumping in you P52 to fly it in combat while you fly the main ship (or they could fly your main ship and you pilot the fighter)

Once the hostilities or the event (sometimes you could be pulled into an instance because you came across a derelict ship or space station and we want to give the player a chance to explore) that triggered the drop out of auto-pilot has been resolved, you can hit auto-pilot again, get handed back to the Galaxy Server and go about your way on the nav course you’ve plotted.

You will always drop out at jump points and planets, where you will need to either make a jump to another system or land.

This process is continued until you reach your final destination, which in my example would be Terra, where I would use my comm system to negotiate a landing slot, which would take me down to the planet’s surface via an in-engine cinematic. Once planet side I’ll be able to sell my cargo, replenish my supplies and look for new opportunities via the third person planet side interface.

The advantage of this system is that is allows you to tailor your experience towards your preference – solo, co-op or full PvP. It also doesn’t partition you into different, parallel versions of the Star Citizen universe as everyone is kept on the persistent server. Because our battle or orbit / space instances are temporary, you’re never stuck

with one group over the long term and due to our heavy emphasis on friends and co-op, there will always be room for your friends to join you on your adventure; whether it’s against other players or NPCs.

The same instance system underpins the single player Squadron 42. If you’re playing off-line, your computer will be acting as the server and client, there will be no opportunities for friends to join and everyone will be an NPC. But if you play Squadron 42 through the Galaxy Server, even though your missions and space areas are pre-determined (you don’t get to pick where in the galaxy you are flying if you’re in the military) we will allow your friends to drop in / drop out to take over NPC wingmen and if you want extra skill ranking you can allow other players to drop in and take over enemy ace characters. This system is pretty similar to the Demon’s Souls setup where people could drop in as a Blue Phantom to help you kill a boss monster or fight off another invading player, or you could drop in as a Black Phantom to someone else’s world and try and kill them for XP and other gamerewards.

The key to all this is to allow player choice – you want to play alone you can, want your friends to join you in co-op we allow that and if you want to be challenged by other real players you can do that. The special part is that it can all happen in the same holistic universe.

I hope this helps in terms of understanding how we’re balancing the aspects of multiplayer as well as making the game fun.


I'm still not sure how seamless this will be in practice. Some of what he says reminds me more of "Final fantasy" random encounters rather than freelancer trade lane disrupting.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on November 14, 2012, 06:34:17 PM
Sounds like Pirates of the Burning Sea. Not a bad thing, but not really the omg-how-many-people-are-here?! that Eve can sometimes deliver.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on November 15, 2012, 07:44:06 AM
Massive space battles are neat to see on rare occasion.  If they're the rule rather than the exception, I can do without the slide show.  Give me small dogfights any day.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on November 15, 2012, 10:05:30 AM
Hm. I'd be more interested with a rich freelancer-style galaxy on a privately hosted server with centralized authentication, more like minecraft.

I'm holding off on this one until release. Obsidian doing an infinity game? Sure. Roberts returning from retirement to do an mmo? Skeptical.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Shaje on November 15, 2012, 12:33:17 PM
I'll second the private server preference. That is where all the modded in ships from other IPs will be available, so that's where I'll be.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 15, 2012, 12:49:47 PM
Sounds like Pirates of the Burning Sea. Not a bad thing, but not really the omg-how-many-people-are-here?! that Eve can sometimes deliver.

I'm currently playing the Discovery Freelancer mod. I have no need of Eve Numbers in a battle. 100 can feel epic enough. Current Discovery mod server limit is around 200. Star citizen? 100 per sector. ( Supposedly )

Hm. I'd be more interested with a rich freelancer-style galaxy on a privately hosted server with centralized authentication, more like minecraft.

Players can run their own in star citizen. Everything above applies to personal servers too. As I understand it.

To add, Freelancer Vanilla server, and Discovery freelancer are, already basically MMO's. Discovery however, has removed the limitations of Vanilla. In Vanilla, you got the top tier ship or whatever on the server, there was nothing to do. Discovery has added a factional and corporate war. Its much more dynamic. So, other than the matchmaking outlined above...Hes made this game before, at least twice.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on November 15, 2012, 03:30:06 PM
I have no need of Eve Numbers in a battle.

I have enormous respect and admiration for what EVE is capable of. Given a choice, though, I'd prefer an FPS-like online environment with 128 concurrent players, flight sim reactivity over server-saving "time dilation," and the possibility of regularly fighting alongside 10 people I know and 20 people I see regularly around the server. Less anonymous zerg blobs, more fun with friends.

A couple of years back I wanted to get a group together to discuss the MMORPG concept I've been working on since 2004. I never managed to get a forum going, so... fail. Chris Roberts appears to have been reading the doc off my hard drive, because Star Citizen is at least 70% of what I wanted.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 16, 2012, 09:13:35 AM
(http://assets2.ignimgs.com/2012/11/15/011jpg-19d36e_640w.jpg)

Quote
Wing Commander and Freelancer creator Chris Roberts has been busy. Though he took some time off from game design to work in the film industry, he recently announced his return with a new space sim called Star Citizen. After showing an initial demo and releasing an early trailer, Roberts started crowdfunding to get Star Citizen off the ground, securing more than $3 million dollars between Kickstarter and his own website. Many fans donated $250 or more, often to secure themselves a space ship they didn't know the look of or function, acting simply on faith that Roberts and his team could deliver something special. To learn more about the RSI Constellation (the first big ship to be revealed), the team's approach to ship design, and Star Citizen overall, we interviewed Game Director Chris Roberts and Lead Conceptual Artist Ryan Church.

"Who doesn’t want their own Millennium Falcon?," responds Roberts when I press him about why the Constellation has been a common pledge level despite its $250 price tag, "What’s been interesting is that people have been signing up for the Constellation just on the promise without knowing what it will look like. I’m guessing that now people can see the attention to detail they may just want to upgrade."
   
Indeed, as a longtime fan of spaceships and science fiction universes like Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica and Star Trek, I'd say the ship looks impressive. It features a gigantic, pod-like cockpit at the front, a pair of turrets on the top and bottom of the ship, and a general aesthetic that makes Constellation look like a combination of the Han Solo's famous ship and the titular Firefly-class ship from the now defunct TV series. There are even places on the ship that Roberts and team have yet to decide the purpose. "You should be able to eat a meal or drink something in the kitchen! I don’t think we’ll go to the extreme of requiring you to do this to keep your energy up, but it is a nice texture moment. I would like the sleeping quarters play into the game the same way a bunk bed did in the original Wing Commander – which was as an in-fiction save point, but I’m not going to let you save anywhere in space. But I think when docked / landed the sleeping quarters will be where you 'wake-up' when you load your game to start a new session."

This is all part of Chris Roberts' greater vision for Star Citizen, that it earns the sim part of the space sim title. This is exemplified by the Constellation's cargo bay. Roberts says "the goal is to be able to walk back into your cargo hold while flying and actually see the cargo you’re hauling. There’s a big focus on simulating and showing everything that you would imagine to be inside and functioning on a spaceship in Star Citizen. So if you’re hauling it you should see it in your hold (if you can walk back into your hold), if you activate a system, you should see your pilot avatar lean over and switch it on, and so on."

Church and Roberts thus work together from concept to finished product, with Church beginning with Roberts' description and then figuring out how to make it functional. "It's much like designing a car or any other product," Church tells IGN, "there are the engineering requirements and then there's the feeling you want to convey -- look at a Ferrari and a Lamborghini. Both are high performance Italian sports cars but they have very different looks, different surface form languages. So I will start pretty rough and send a bunch of variations to Chris and he will weed them down and distill out what he wants. Once the shape and configuration are locked in I put on my engineer's hat and work backwards from the functional requirements to the form."

This is exactly how the Constellation came to be. Church writes, "The design brief for the Constellation was that it has a crew of three, is heavily armed and has an 'iconic' shape. That's tough to do! But I think we've succeeded- it has a very aggressive shape in attack/landing mode and can configure itself to a more benign looking cruise mode. At every stage while building it and figuring out the functionality I'm thinking about the Constellation class ship as a potential user: what would I want to fly? What would I want to be seen in? These questions resulted in not only the look of the ship but the layout of the interior and a lot of the functionality like the way the weapons can retract and change the silhouette of the ship."

Though the Constellation may be inspired by the likes of the Millenium Falcon, it has one advantage over such a craft: a deployable fighter. This small craft has no ability to navigate the warp gates that will separate the gigantic sections of Star Citizen's universe, but according to Roberts, "is important to counter act the Constellation’s lower maneuverability compared to a pure dogfighting player ship." The addition of a fighter and all the other considerable armaments of the Constellation doesn't mean it'll be everything, either. "It all comes down to how the player decides to modify and upgrade his ship and what he wants to focus on – dogfighting, trading runs, exploration," writes Roberts, "A lightly armored, but very maneuverable ship piloted by a good pilot would have a chance."

We still have yet to see the array of other ships that are being created, and as a bit of disclosure I've tossed in $125 myself for a freighter, but this first design is encouraging. There's just so much attention to detail, and if Roberts and company manage to pull off the gameplay elements detailed in our first preview, then Star Citizen could set a new standard for immersion when it releases in 2014.

A ton of images are with the article. (http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/11/15/star-citizen-ship-design-and-star-wars-fantasies)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on November 17, 2012, 11:11:27 AM
Funding is currently at $4.2 million with two days to go.

I think that makes them the biggest game crowd-fund ever, if you don't count Ouya - Obsidian's Project Eternity ended just short of $4 million.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Amaron on November 17, 2012, 02:29:16 PM
It just hit slashdot so it might jump up more.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on November 18, 2012, 09:02:16 PM
I went away for a few hours and came back to find that it had jumped up over $5 million. Currently at $5,115,675 from 73,919 backers.

EDIT: As of 6AM, $5,521,375 from 79,461 donors, with another eight hours to go. $5.5 million unlocked the final stretch goal, player-controllable Bengal-class carriers.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 19, 2012, 10:55:32 AM
Star Citizen - Early Spaceport concept art to 3D environment test (http://vimeo.com/53829036)

Star Citizen - Early AI Combat (http://vimeo.com/53745615)


Chris Roberts and Richard Garriot are on the Star Citizen Livestream right now.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/croberts68



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Shaje on November 19, 2012, 01:56:55 PM
It's over. The last number I heard was 6.2 million. I never thought they would raise that much.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on November 19, 2012, 02:22:19 PM
I went back and forth on this one. $30 isn't exactly a huge deal and the constant mmo talk and 'facing real humans' kept turning me off. I've faced other humans, it's not what it's cracked up to be.

If there are solid single player and private server options, I'll jump in when it hits a steam sale. It certainly looks nice, at least until he dumbs down the graphics to make it playable mmo.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 19, 2012, 02:24:49 PM
The Online Universe is 100% optional.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on November 19, 2012, 04:02:00 PM
Quote
Your ships have lifetime insurance policies and for the next year you will have the ability to purchase further tiers or upgrade existing ones at the initial prices. That's not true of everyone else: if you want to back Star Citizen and participate in this amazing community, you still can. but it's going to cost you a little extra as of now, and you aren't going to have as many extras (no lifetime insurance, for example.)
Uh, what the fuck does that mean? Boning retail customers is probably a stupid thing to promise right out of the gate. I'll check back in a couple years. He says too many things I don't like.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 19, 2012, 04:09:00 PM
Quote
Your ships have lifetime insurance policies and for the next year you will have the ability to purchase further tiers or upgrade existing ones at the initial prices. That's not true of everyone else: if you want to back Star Citizen and participate in this amazing community, you still can. but it's going to cost you a little extra as of now, and you aren't going to have as many extras (no lifetime insurance, for example.)
Uh, what the fuck does that mean?

That anyone who has already donated still has a chance to upgrade that donation using the upgrade system they put in place towards the end of the fund drive. That's how I read it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on November 19, 2012, 05:17:31 PM
What is lifetime insurance for ships? That sounds important.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: veredus on November 19, 2012, 08:53:58 PM
From what I read you can insure your ship for if/when it gets blown up to soften the cost of replacing it. Apparently the founder people get that for free. Sounds like a nice founders perk.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on November 19, 2012, 09:32:56 PM
Yes. Yes it does.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 19, 2012, 10:29:34 PM
The initial cost is the same but insurance for retail will expire after a period of time and a new insurance policy would have to be purchased.

Insurance is going to be a tricky mechanic, they will probably have to do what EvE does and have the payout be significantly less than the replacement cost or else people would just blow up their ships on the last day of the policy.  I imagine your ships will be getting blown up fairly often so the insurance not expiring will mostly be moot since your ship will probably be destroyed before the policy lapses, then you'll have to buy both new ship and new insurance - retail and founder alike.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 19, 2012, 11:24:46 PM
six mil, eh. from the kickstarter alone.

well then~!

engaging stupid optimism drive. unshielded.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Amaron on November 20, 2012, 06:03:06 AM
From what I read you can insure your ship for if/when it gets blown up to soften the cost of replacing it. Apparently the founder people get that for free. Sounds like a nice founders perk.

I thought this was about running our own servers?  I don't see how he can promise this if we have private servers.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on November 20, 2012, 08:39:48 AM
There is a single player game.

There is an Official MMO server.

There will be private special rules/invite only/whatever servers.

They aren't going to limit how you play, other than defining the Official Server as having a specific set of rules and trying to encourage the majority of people to hang out in that universe.  We are free to go elsewhere.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on November 20, 2012, 09:04:28 AM
We'll see. Two years is a long time for things to change.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 20, 2012, 09:25:41 AM
The single player game is going to happen before the world. The world is slated for 2013, the Squadron 42 is this coming year. Alphas and betas before that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on November 20, 2012, 10:21:57 AM
For those that missed this the main site is still excepting backers (and still has the time limited stuff available) until Monday due to the site hit-and-miss availability over the last 24 hours of the drive.

I went back and forth on this one. $30 isn't exactly a huge deal

I read somewhere (pretty sure on the official site) that $30 was an early backer price and that retail would actually be $60 (the $30 ran out fairly quickly and the $35 & $40 were identical except for the price and not being [as] limited in quantitiy

The initial cost is the same but insurance for retail will expire after a period of time and a new insurance policy would have to be purchased.

Insurance is going to be a tricky mechanic, they will probably have to do what EvE does and have the payout be significantly less than the replacement cost or else people would just blow up their ships on the last day of the policy.  I imagine your ships will be getting blown up fairly often so the insurance not expiring will mostly be moot since your ship will probably be destroyed before the policy lapses, then you'll have to buy both new ship and new insurance - retail and founder alike.

There's a lot of conflicting information about the lifetime insurance flying around right now (and if it applies to add on ship purchased in the grace week and the next year) apparently there will be a web site update later today clarifying it

I personally struggle with how they will get away without doing something similar to Eve in that the starter ship (the Aurora I believe in this case) always gets replaced.

six mil, eh. from the kickstarter alone.

well then~!

engaging stupid optimism drive. unshielded.

No that was 6mil total, think Kickstarter made about 2mil

The single player game is going to happen before the world. The world is slated for 2013, the Squadron 42 is this coming year. Alphas and betas before that.

I thought the beta [of the single player] was due in a year (2013) with the whole game a year after that (2014)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on November 20, 2012, 11:47:40 AM
Maybe I'm just old school, but I still believe in paying for a game by purchasing the launch version.

I'm happy he got $6mm, but that's going to merely be the price of entry to unlock the full funding he'll need to achieve all his promises. That funding is unlikely to be without rules for which he didn't account.

And I am excited this might be coming. But we've seen shippable games canceled. Heck, we've seen shipped games cancelled and pulled from retail. So I'll just be over here in my rocking chair waiting for my launch copy to arrive.  :geezer:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 20, 2012, 11:50:37 AM
I find it hard to attach any sort of meaning to the 6m figure. Is that much or little?

Halo 3 cost $55m + $200m marketing budget.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 20, 2012, 12:02:18 PM
6 mill is just the crowd funding, last I read, he had secured about 20 million from traditional investors. The 6 mill, + number of gamers was to prove to the investors people wanted this.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Viin on November 20, 2012, 12:55:47 PM
I find it hard to attach any sort of meaning to the 6m figure. Is that much or little?

Halo 3 cost $55m + $200m marketing budget.

And we all know how overpriced marketing is.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 20, 2012, 12:58:00 PM
Why does a niche game need marketing?

This game has 90k people who donated cash money. Its not a game for everyone, intentionally. Word of mouth may be all it needs.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Amaron on November 20, 2012, 03:57:46 PM
Halo 3 cost $55m + $200m marketing budget.

When trying to judge budgets Halo should be your last choice.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: HaemishM on November 20, 2012, 04:09:00 PM
Why does a niche game need marketing?

Because even though it's a niche, that niche still needs to be informed the game is out there, has been released, is still being developed, etc.

In short, if you want to SELL something, you need marketing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on November 20, 2012, 08:07:32 PM
Its not a game for everyone, intentionally. Word of mouth may be all it needs.

Word of mouth is marketing.

Plus I'm sure at the other end there will be a big ad and PR campaign to promote Squadron 47 / Star Citizen to the masses.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Kageru on November 20, 2012, 09:05:58 PM

The comment he made in one of the interviews about how it's possible to take a more iterative approach seems reasonable. Get the game out and then keep adding things. Makes it potentially cheaper than having to have everything in and polished for retail release and keeps people interested in what comes next. Partly what Tanks has been doing with the constant iteration.

Another advantage of being a PC-centric game too, would be much harder / impossible to do the same on consoles.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on November 21, 2012, 10:34:34 PM
Maybe niche games don't need traditional marketing. But they also don't need $26mm budgets.

He wasn't able to secure $20mm from traditional investors on the promise of a word of mouth campaign. At minimum there will be a slew of banner ads on high traffic sites with premium CPMs over a 4-6 week period. I assume no TV support. But either this game needs to be introduced all by itself, or people first need to be reminded who Chris Robers is and then this game is introduced.

This feels like it's in the gray area between Darkfall niche and Daikatana "hey I know that guy from somewhere" quasi niche  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Draegan on November 27, 2012, 10:27:22 AM
Anyone have a referrer number they want me to use?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on November 27, 2012, 11:51:35 AM
Dunno if this is good anymore, but you can try using this link (https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen/?rid=15811).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Draegan on November 27, 2012, 12:18:22 PM
I put it in, but I don't know if it did anything.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 27, 2012, 01:22:48 PM
Quote
blather

Link (http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/insurance-faq-and-update/)

[Mod edit] Posting a press release and a link isn't better than just posting a naked link. You should know better than that by now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on November 27, 2012, 02:32:51 PM
The insurance thing still sounds shabby for non-lifetime folks who won't have a permanent backup ship.

And it would've been nice to know the cutoff was Nov 26 at some point before the 27th.

Ah, well. Plenty of games out there.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 27, 2012, 02:39:18 PM
Big giant count down clocks be dammed?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on November 28, 2012, 10:00:21 AM
I put it in, but I don't know if it did anything.
My count is still zero.  You can try adding Lantyssa at the bottom of your account page.  I'm not sure it actually does anything besides making me feel good.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Draegan on November 28, 2012, 10:26:26 AM
I put it in, but I don't know if it did anything.
My count is still zero.  You can try adding Lantyssa at the bottom of your account page.  I'm not sure it actually does anything besides making me feel good.

Put in the name and clicked Verify and it really didn't do anything that I can see.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on November 28, 2012, 11:12:40 AM
Now I have a recruit count of 2.  You're twice as important as anyone else it seems!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Draegan on November 28, 2012, 11:21:41 AM
Yes I don't have lifetime insurance! Sonsofbitches


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 28, 2012, 05:35:47 PM
From what I read you can insure your ship for if/when it gets blown up to soften the cost of replacing it. Apparently the founder people get that for free. Sounds like a nice founders perk.

(http://gameplay.itc.ua/files/oldblog/2007/05/hellagte.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: veredus on November 28, 2012, 06:51:59 PM
While that's sort of almost funny, not sure what it has to do with what is basically a pre order bonus.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on November 28, 2012, 07:38:57 PM
Having a permanent free backup ship?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on November 28, 2012, 07:51:15 PM
Quite a few pages dedicated to a theoretical bonus about a hypothetical game. How about we worry about it in 5 years when and if this launches :-)

And yes, I am fully aware I was once an ardent defender of some of the things DAoC might consider ripping off from EQ1 back when it was first announced  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Draegan on November 29, 2012, 09:19:14 AM
I assume insurance on those starter ships is equivalent of giving WOW players free griffon rides for life.  Or something.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on November 29, 2012, 11:01:39 AM
You get a free stripped-down Rifter.  Whoopie.  Huge money savings there.  Look out galactic market.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Hoax on November 30, 2012, 11:38:09 AM
You get a free stripped-down Rifter.  Whoopie.  Huge money savings there.  Look out galactic market.

Not even doesn't it just mean your insurance doesn't ever expire but you still only get a crappy insurance payout that is less than the value of the ship?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 30, 2012, 11:42:19 AM
Ship is replaced. Nothing else is, Cargo, mods, Guns...whatever is not bolted down.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Kitsune on December 02, 2012, 03:17:56 AM
Yeah, you pretty much have an infinitely replaceable hull for the ship you got with your prepurchase.  That's it.  Cargo and equipment's up to you to replace if you get it shot out from under you.  And if you paid the $30 you apparently have the crappiest ship in the game, so free hull replacements for that are a bit underwhelming.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on December 03, 2012, 08:26:32 AM
Yeah, you pretty much have an infinitely replaceable hull for the ship you got with your prepurchase.  That's it.  Cargo and equipment's up to you to replace if you get it shot out from under you.  And if you paid the $30 you apparently have the crappiest ship in the game, so free hull replacements for that are a bit underwhelming.

Until you read the recent insurance FAQ and find out what happens if you dont have insurance and cant afford a new hull......

and if you stumped up for a larger hull then the benefit/cost saving becomes even more attractive

(you become someone else's bitch (PC or NPC) until you earn anough to buy a new one)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on December 03, 2012, 09:01:49 AM
I thought the whole, getting subcontracted until you could afford a new ship, thing was rather clever. Depending on how its done.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on December 03, 2012, 11:11:34 AM
When was the last time someone in a space sim went completely broke when they weren't being a complete moron?  So there's an edge case.  Probably an option if you don't want to risk your own ship, too.  I'm not being convinced this is a terrible thing yet.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on December 03, 2012, 01:30:30 PM
It would actually be kind of cool in a way if there was a game mode in which the two game over conditions are

1. death, or
2. debtors prison


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on February 06, 2013, 05:12:30 PM
Now this is quite an exciting update, about the death mechanics in Squadron 42 (the single-player game) and Star Citizen itself (the persisten world space)  :drill: :drill:

http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/death-of-a-spacema/

Here are a couple snippets, but I encourage you to read the entire article, it's VERY interesting and informative. At the end of the article, there is also a brief FAQ.

Quote
In Squadron 42, this is pretty easy to achieve. You need to complete the mission to move forward and you can’t save while in space. You die you just go back to the previous save point, normally before you launched on the mission.

In Star Citizen:
Quote
If you don’t manage to eject in time, or someone blasts your ejected character (which carries a harsh penalty if you do this in “civilized” space), your badly charred and almost dead avatar is recovered and you wake up in a med bay.

This is also true if you are killed in a boarding action and your teammates can’t or don’t recover you. If this happens it is assumed that your dead body was evacuated into space and then recovered.

Every “death” creates wear and tear on your body. Depending on where you were hit and how you died, your character may require a new body part, which can either be cybernetic or organic. Eventually after too many deaths, your character’s body will just give out, and instead of waking up in a med bay, you’ll be attending the funeral of your fallen character from the eyes of the beneficiary you specified when originally creating your character. If your old character has done something noteworthy (akin to an in-game achievement), his headstone might read “Here lies Chris, discover of the Orion 2 jump point, slayer of the Dread Pirate Roberts, and a Citizen of the First Order.”

(http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/wc1-funeral_thumb-e1360096322779-300x115.jpg)



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Draegan on February 07, 2013, 09:48:15 AM
That's interesting.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on February 07, 2013, 09:52:25 AM
I like it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sparky on February 09, 2013, 07:40:21 AM
I'm surprised people aren't bitching about the microtransactions.  You expect them in a F2P game because they have to make their money somehow.  But pay-to-play when people have already paid his development costs feels pretty cheeky to me.  Depends how it's done of course.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on February 09, 2013, 09:54:38 AM
I do not recall an article about microtransactions.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sparky on February 10, 2013, 06:03:33 AM
I do not recall an article about microtransactions.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/10/17/star-citizen-system-requirements-modding-and-potential-microstransactions-detailed/

There's not much info, just "only for stuff you'll be able to acquire through normal play" which really doesn't tell us anything.  I just find the idea a bit disappointing in a P2P game they're making with fan money.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on February 10, 2013, 07:22:35 AM
It's no different than Guild Wars 2, other than the initial fan investment, which is like macro-transactions up-front.

They are releasing the server code though, so you can do whatever you want in your homebrew server.  This is just for their official server where you play with the rest of the world.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sparky on February 10, 2013, 08:41:57 AM
Oh that's good news.  Consider my jimmies unrustled.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on February 11, 2013, 05:11:30 PM
Roberts seems almost child-like in his naivete regarding griefing. Permadeath will be way too juicy a target for griefers. 50 throwaway characters using up some vet roleplayer's last life will create comets made of frozen tears. I will definitely be with the goons on this one, if only to avoid being targeted  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on February 11, 2013, 07:30:34 PM
It's no different than Guild Wars 2, other than the initial fan investment, which is like macro-transactions up-front.

Except that GW2 is out and this game is still under development but promising a lot. We've still got a long while to wait before we can see what the final revenue model turns out to be.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on February 12, 2013, 06:57:35 AM
Roberts seems almost child-like in his naivete regarding griefing. Permadeath will be way too juicy a target for griefers. 50 throwaway characters using up some vet roleplayer's last life will create comets made of frozen tears. I will definitely be with the goons on this one, if only to avoid being targeted  :grin:

I predict Roberts current on plan on death will not make it out of beta


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on February 12, 2013, 08:57:02 AM
Roberts seems almost child-like in his naivete regarding griefing. Permadeath will be way too juicy a target for griefers. 50 throwaway characters using up some vet roleplayer's last life will create comets made of frozen tears. I will definitely be with the goons on this one, if only to avoid being targeted  :grin:

Did you read the whole article, or just the quoted part here?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on February 12, 2013, 11:05:59 AM
Of course I read the whole thing. My comment stands as written. If you can kill or take things permanently from other players, people will do it just for the grins and the rage. What part of it do you think will prevent this from happening?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on February 12, 2013, 11:17:42 AM
Not saying it won't happen. However, as there are no skills tied to an avatar, there is not much to lose.  It was also stated that you can gain back "lives" as well. Its also extremely cool that death itself, like dark souls, is part of the world lore, even if your avatar is lost, accomplishments live on.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on February 12, 2013, 11:22:36 AM
It won't be the material loss. It will be the long time character that someone is inordinately proud of, and which will cause them to rage quit when they get targeted and hunted into extinction.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on February 12, 2013, 11:43:09 AM
I don't really role play anymore in video games, but.

So?

Whats cooler than having an offspring who retains the history of a previous character, including partial ( Faction? ) affiliations and ( Player ) recognition? That's rather dam awesome from a Role-player perspective if you ask me. Sure, it will sting, but, this is a niche game. I think you are putting mass market expectations on it. Its not that dissimulator from eve in many regards.

Where you see Griefing, I see permadeath as being ingrained into a world. Instead of slapped on top like so many other systems. I'm not sure whats wrong with a group hunting down a player. Its part of the game, its part of the lore, its part of its life cycle of the world and history, and its not the end of the world.

The scenario you seem to think will happen, where 50 goons camp one planet and blast some guy every times he leaves the planet is highly unlikely to be possible, and if it is, only in non-secured parts of space anyway. Not when apparently you can get taken to any plant you have a ship on.

And we are not even talking about Mercenary contracts yet.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on February 12, 2013, 01:44:35 PM
I think you're underestimating the ability of Goons to break the system in order to cause havoc if that's their goal.

I plan on playing publicly and on a personal server.  If the former gets too bad, I'll just spend all my time on the latter.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on February 12, 2013, 02:12:03 PM
Considering how the PvP is to work, I don't think it will be an issue anywhere but rim worlds. Again though, I think this is a case of a behavior being embraced in a design, rather then suffering from its attempt to mitigate it. The very first barrier in this is, they would have to be a better pilot than the target, unlike Eve.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on February 12, 2013, 02:24:29 PM
Nope. Just have more friends with less to lose.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ingmar on February 12, 2013, 03:10:39 PM
Whats cooler than having an offspring who retains the history of a previous character, including partial ( Faction? ) affiliations and ( Player ) recognition?

Keeping the original character comes to mind.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Typhon on February 12, 2013, 06:08:13 PM
He can fix all these complaints if he makes your characters age.  Each character has a fixed amount of game time to achieve stuff.  All characters die and will their stuff to the next character you create.  "Lives" are just how many times your character was able to cheat death.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on February 12, 2013, 07:39:28 PM
Whats cooler than having an offspring who retains the history of a previous character, including partial ( Faction? ) affiliations and ( Player ) recognition? That's rather dam awesome from a Role-player perspective if you ask me.

Mechanics kick roleplaying in the ass every time.

If your character 'dies', what's the process for creating a new one? Do you have to go through character selection again? Remake the face / body or just select the exact same one you had previously? If it happens in the middle of a fight, how much extra time will it take you to get back in the game? It sounds a bit like you can 'pre-select' your offspring's body, but that doesn't mean that people will.

Like many things in Star Citizen, it sounds like a good idea, but I think it will be mugged by player reality.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on February 16, 2013, 07:20:26 PM
I'm just gonna go ahead and say that right now I am staring at the dead razor's edge, and I have no idea if this game is going to turn out sucky or cool, and I legitimately think it could go either way at this point.

And man, man do i want it to turn out cool.

please.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on April 12, 2013, 09:41:13 AM

WiP Star Citizen Male Character Range-of-Motion Test - 2013-04-08 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za5lR7yMqaE&feature=youtu.be)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on April 13, 2013, 06:38:17 PM
Wow what a lot of unnecessary polys.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on April 26, 2013, 08:23:32 PM
He's back again, and he wants to empty your wallet some more!!  :drill:

http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/the-aurora-revealed/
----------------------
- Beginner ship, the "Aurora", is throughly detailed with a (21 pages!!) brochure:

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/cdn-rsi/brochures/aurora_brochure.pdf

And also:

Quote
To celebrate the release of the Aurora, we’ve put together a special AURORA SALE WEEK promotion! We’re making a special edition version of the Aurora, the Aurora LX, available for a limited time. The LX will be available in the finished game, but this will be your only chance to pledge for it through the site (existing LTI Auroras may be upgraded through our promotion for $5 or in the finished game using in-game credits!) It features a unique paint scheme, twin lasers, leather seats (visible in-game!) and a four-missile mount with Talon IR 4 Stalker missiles pre-loaded. The standard Aurora includes an empty missile hardpoint and fabric seats… this is the luxury model! Several new packages including the LX will be available through Saturday, May 4th:

Two new stretch goals:

9 million: If we can make it to $9 million in total pledges before the new site launches, we’ll go ahead and put a cool Roberts Space Industries Class II space suit in your closet, colored to match the new site! What’s more, every current pledger will get Lifetime Insurance! This will be your last opportunity to get LTI before the game launches.

10 million: Our big goal before the website is $10 million. That’s a crazy amount of money, but we have a plan for it: $10 million would allow Cloud Imperium to build our own mocap studio rather than hiring out time from someone else. Renting mocap equipment and studio time is expensive: upwards of $35,000 a day, with four hours work for each 30-second segment. Having our own studio would cost more right now but will allow us to produce a lot more content for Star Citizen in the long run! We’ll provide more details very soon, but here’s one thought right now: it would even allow us to mocap a few lucky fans into the finished game!

And a final note from Chris Roberts himself:

Quote
I thought it would be good to explain a little of our thinking in the Aurora promotion that we are running with the Aurora brochure. According to our database we have over 40,000 users that signed up but have yet to back. Some of these may be accounts of people that have pledged but their account is unlinked. Some are secondary accounts of people that have backed through a different account. Some of these will be people that signed up but have since decided that they are not interested in Star Citizen. The last group are people that are interested but aren’t ready to back yet, either because they are not convinced just yet, or are waiting until they can play something. A really interesting statistic is that almost 20,000 of the accounts with Golden Ticket status show as of not having a pledge!

My dream is to make Star Citizen the first AAA game that has been 100% funded by the crowd – besides being a milestone there are many reasons why this a good thing, but the most glaring is that this will ensure that the community and developers are 100% in alignment. Both our priorities is to make the best game possible, no compromises. Star Citizen is going to cost approximately $20M to make. We have this covered already between the incredible funding we’ve received from you and the commitments from investors. But here’s the truth: I’ve been holding off on closing investors because your commitment means we won’t need as much money as we originally expected. Every dollar we make from crowd funding means one less we’ll take from outside investors.

To achieve this we need to bring in new people, as all of you have given more than we could have ever expected you should not be expected to contribute any more to the cause. What better way to get some new members than a sale to entice them to join before the new site and their access rights change? Which is why we decided to create a sale for the unveiling of the Aurora in all its glory. We’re really proud of the work that’s been done on the Aurora – I think you will agree that no other game goes to such detail in designing and realizing a universe. The Aurora is indicative of what we are looking to achieve in terms of detail and immersion in the final game, and while it is the cheapest player ship available it is by no means a “Starter ship”.

As part of this we’ve decided to create a little mini campaign around the new site, complete with some stretch goals, rewards for all backers and a 24 hour live cam setup to celebrate the new site going live at the end of May. For those of you that will want to add the Aurora LX to your collection now we’ve created a couple of options for you to contribute a little more money towards development and get in return add the LX to your fleet. I want to stress that if you did this it would only because you wanted to contribute to the development funding not because you have to. You will be able to earn credits to buy this ship in game once we go live. So please do not feel obligated to do anything. Everyone has given more than enough. This is purely a “for the fun” sale / event to hopefully push our funding along.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on April 26, 2013, 08:42:51 PM
So $10mm is actually more on the trajectory of a AAA game. However, I hope he realizes the budget he really needs has inflated quite a bit since Wing Commander days. Hopefully he's got a good Producer behind him who's been there/done that.

But at least he's talking a more realistic actually-build-it goal than the "$2mm for a new MMO/./11!" ones.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on April 26, 2013, 08:53:27 PM
So $10mm is actually more on the trajectory of a AAA game. However, I hope he realizes the budget he really needs has inflated quite a bit since Wing Commander days. Hopefully he's got a good Producer behind him who's been there/done that.

But at least he's talking a more realistic actually-build-it goal than the "$2mm for a new MMO/./11!" ones.

Yeah, $10M crowdfunding minimum, but in that note he actually states that the game will approx. cost $20M (but from what we're seeing we can safely assume he's being conservative :P)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on April 26, 2013, 09:08:49 PM
Yea. THIS might be one of the KS's I back. He seems pretty sharp, enough to hire the right people or have kept up with all the modern business needs anyway. Most realistic one I've bothered to follow anyway...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on April 28, 2013, 04:48:58 PM
In a recent update (http://robertsspaceindustries.com/the-aurora-revealed/), Chris Roberts declared, "Star Citizen is going to cost approximately $20M to make."

This endears this project to me further, because that's precisely the budget target I've been been saying MMGs should be designed for.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on April 28, 2013, 08:13:03 PM
In a recent update (http://robertsspaceindustries.com/the-aurora-revealed/), Chris Roberts declared, "Star Citizen is going to cost approximately $20M to make."

This endears this project to me further, because that's precisely the budget target I've been been saying MMGs should be designed for.

It was closer to US$15m when the project was announced. Plus it isn't to make one 'game', it's to make a single player title and a MMO.

I'm expecting to see that game budget creep higher over time.

Although I agree that MMOs have to keep their development costs down, especially from current AAA levels.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on April 30, 2013, 09:14:39 AM
He should move to Rhode Island.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 21, 2013, 11:46:27 PM
The 300 Series: The Next Generation is Now  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrQ0qMRZ_1Q&feature=youtu.be)

The PDF sales brochures and Car Commercial like videos are just awesome.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on June 22, 2013, 03:37:22 AM
And they have raised 10 million and counting. Wow.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on June 22, 2013, 03:54:26 PM
money creeps away from you in games like this. I'm hoping he continues to make the game as though the budget is 15m, because that'll end up being 22m realistically


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 23, 2013, 01:59:59 PM
Huh. I'm really starting to get jazzed about the thought of going back to the Wing Commander universe, even if they have to file off the VIN and call it Squadron 42.

Star Citizen... Eh. I love the idea of space trading sim things, but I find the reality of them is pretty drudgey. Haul cargo, shoot dudes, haul cargo shoot dudes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 23, 2013, 03:53:28 PM
Note the font on that logo :)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on June 23, 2013, 05:37:43 PM
Shit, man, note the logo on that logo.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on June 24, 2013, 08:50:11 AM
Purchased my ORIGIN 315p ; I'm ready to fly in style  :awesome_for_real: :drill:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on June 24, 2013, 08:57:35 AM
I pledged 40 but I plan to slowly upgrade my pledge over the months. That 315p looks nifty *jealous* - I am eyeing the Pirate Pack. Tractor Beam? Yes please.

EDIT: Lucas, you are Italian. Doesn't it make you a bit uncomfortable too that Roberts Space Industries' acronym is "RSI"?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on June 24, 2013, 09:54:08 AM
I already spent too much for this damn game, shame on me  :uhrr:

- $ 125 during the original KS campaign (Freelancer package; already got my Star Citizen bronze card and T-Shirt)

- $25 for the Aurora LX (add-on ship)

- $65 for the Origin 315p (add-on ship)

- $20 for the "Squadron 42" hardback bound manual

Fuck me   :uhrr:

EDIT: didn't really think about it in those terms, Falconeer. Besides, my (paternal) grandfather (who I consider the person I loved the most in my entire life) was in the RSI. But we're getting a tad off-topic :D


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on June 24, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
I gave this some money. Fingers crossed.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on June 25, 2013, 06:51:58 AM
I pledged 40 but I plan to slowly upgrade my pledge over the months. That 315p looks nifty *jealous* - I am eyeing the Pirate Pack. Tractor Beam? Yes please.

EDIT: Lucas, you are Italian. Doesn't it make you a bit uncomfortable too that Roberts Space Industries' acronym is "RSI"?

There's some confusion over the pirate pack, some are saying that the extras (pirate skins & tractor beam) were only included if you bought the pack during the closing week of the kickstarter and that you'll only get the base Cutlass now - I dont think there has been any clarification.

I'm not listing what I bought as it scares me, not as much as an RL friend though who is one of the 100 Idris Corvette owners........

-edit-
The new website lists what's included with the Cutlas and it shows that the pirate skin, tractor beam and docking collar are included


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 26, 2013, 09:10:13 AM
Just received my citizen card and T-Shirt!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on June 30, 2013, 06:50:53 AM
With the launch of the new website all the previous time-limited ships are available for sale again until the 6th

They did add another 200 Corvettes (civilian grade and costing $250 more) but they apparently sold out in under 10 mins


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: KallDrexx on June 30, 2013, 08:32:35 AM
People paid $250 for ships for a game that's not going to be out for quite a long time yet?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on June 30, 2013, 08:42:03 AM
People paid $250 for ships for a game that's not going to be out for quite a long time yet?

As someone who spent a lot on Hex, I realize this is somewhat silly for me to say, but the amount some people are spending on this game basically sight unseen is really crazy.  I know a few people well into the thousands already.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 30, 2013, 11:16:30 AM
Star Citizen Galaxy Map WiP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cLeXj4p03k&feature=youtu.be)

Inside Cloud Imperium Games . Making the Hangar . Forrest Stephan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDLEIBheqYU&feature=youtu.be)

300 Series Commercial - Director's Cut (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTBzrUwB6Qo&feature=youtu.be)

300 Series Spacecraft Showroom (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UewXkv9So88&feature=youtu.be)  

Inside Cloud Imperium Games . the Vanduul . Chris Olivia  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABhWNBJgkQY&feature=youtu.be)

Inside Cloud Imperium Games . Player Character . Mark Skelton (http://youtu.be/578zKOcJrzQ)

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/ffauzori9wzqzr/source/MISC_Starfarer_90m_v01_Jumbo.jpg)

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/xe9ixni851lb5r/source/M50_032713_notes.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on June 30, 2013, 11:22:12 AM
It is crazy because it's in a much earlier stage of development than Hex, and because it's a kind of game that is 1000 times easier to fuck up than Hex. That's the thing, really: not that people are spending so much on a game that isn't out yet, but that they are spending so much on a game that has nothing but carefully architectured teaser videos to show, and not even a bit of gameplay. (still, I pledged 40$)

People are gamblling on this, hoping it'll change their lives. It's like buying 500$ 1250$ of lottery tickets because the powerball is 60 million this week, and being excited every day you wait for it. So weird to watch. It's like people are paying to buy hope, that can be comforting.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 30, 2013, 11:24:25 AM
All those videos are in engine. 100% using the game assets. I think you may underappreiciate the amount of communication they are doing with people. I personally have never seen a game so open with its development or this level of constant communication, and that's on the non-subscription tier.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on June 30, 2013, 11:25:29 AM
So?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 30, 2013, 11:27:16 AM
So?

Its not a CGI mockup. Its proof of development, and experience. They ARE game play.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on June 30, 2013, 11:28:52 AM
They ARE game play.

 :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on June 30, 2013, 12:02:51 PM
People paid $250 for ships for a game that's not going to be out for quite a long time yet?

I think you may have misunderstood my last post - The recently available 200 Corvettes were actually $1250, $250 more than the 100 that were made available last year (for a slightly lower spec ship - that may not actually come with an engine!)

Alot of people have paid alot more than $250 on Star Citizen so far.......


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on June 30, 2013, 12:03:20 PM
So?

Its not a CGI mockup. Its proof of development, and experience. They ARE game play.

"In engine" and "game play" are not the same thing. See also - Eve online trailers.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 30, 2013, 12:40:43 PM
Star Citizen - Chris Roberts shows off the RSI Constellation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InLTUDN_NQ4&feature=youtu.be)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: KallDrexx on June 30, 2013, 01:23:24 PM
So?

Its not a CGI mockup. Its proof of development, and experience. They ARE game play.

As others have said, that doesn't make it a gameplay video.  Furthermore, I've seen actual gameplay video of 100s of games out right now, doesn't mean I'd spend more than $60 on them, even the better ones.  The money people are blowing on this game at such an early stage rivals lifetime memberships to MMOs back when subs were cool, and might I add the internet went into a ragestorm because people thought $300 for a lifetime sub was ridiculous.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Nonentity on June 30, 2013, 01:31:45 PM
I'm really angry that because I wasn't at my computer the second the website went up that Non and Nonentity were both taken as handles.

I got angry and now I am forever 'suckit'.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 02, 2013, 03:33:02 PM
Perhaps you guys should pay more attention to the weekly Wingmans hangers, lore releases, AMA's, development videos and other live streams they do to figure out why so many feel inclined to donate. There is possibly more interaction and open development in SC then many other previous games, this garners a large amount of confidence. They have laid almost all thoughts on design in the open and give constant development updates. You get even more info if you have subscribed. They also had a in engine, and in game videos before even asking for money. That's a far cry for many MANY kickstarter or crowed funded games.  In fact they just finished up a 24 hour live stream on the development a few days ago. They didn't just toss out a kickstarter then go dark like so many others.

If you are only looking at the official videos I could see your confusion.

RSI Constellation footage from 24 hour live stream! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76UF2gnLKho&feature=youtu.be)

Also, they just hit 12 million. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link//13124-12-Million) That's one million in a weekend. At 13 million they add Frigates to the game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on July 02, 2013, 04:43:04 PM
I am on board, I paid, and I am loving the promises and the few things I have seen. Question is, "is it fun?" And I think that's a hard answer to extrapolate from those videos. Are they COOOOOL? Yes. Is the game fun enough that it's obviously a great investment to put hundreds (or thousand) of dollars into it _at this point_?

When I talk about gameplay -and I say it's not in the video- I am wondering how much of that stuff is guaranteed to turn out FUN. And the answer is none. And that's the only thing that stops me to put in more money. Don't get me wrong, I am excited and I feel the call for my wallet. I just remember every time that there isn't a single reason to spend those money NOW. I reserved my alpha spot, I contributed to development, so you could say I placed my bet. I just think given the risk vs reward there is no point at all to put in more than 30 - 60$.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on July 02, 2013, 05:58:52 PM
That's the part that baffles me most.

Paying that amount of money for a fake ship, ok, sure maybe I won't do it, but I can see why people would once a game is established with rules that allow you to know how to be all alpha gamer with your e-peen ship.

And maybe I could see paying that much for a ship in a game that doesn't exist yet but for which you get a Fingerprints/MakerBot printed model on a pedestal, especially if you had some design decisions you could make on the textures/colors. In this scenario, even if the game never launches, at least you got something tangible to show off, to talk about that time you were part of a really cool cultural event or something.

But, $300 for a non ship in a non game where nothing but a hands on experience will even tell you whether it's fun, especially for an audience core enough to know who Chris Roberts' is and remember what Wing Commander was and probably having played enough games to rant enough about to long since learn how often high promise takes a nose dive into vapor?

I don't get it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on July 02, 2013, 07:56:36 PM
But, $300 for a non ship in a non game where nothing but a hands on experience will even tell you whether it's fun, especially for an audience core enough to know who Chris Roberts' is and remember what Wing Commander was and probably having played enough games to rant enough about to long since learn how often high promise takes a nose dive into vapor?

I don't get it.

Because gamers have nearly always preferred potential to reality.

Roberts has basically promised everything ever asked for in a space sim. He's then getting his pre-order customers to fund it. I believe that a lot of people will be disappointed with what he actually delivers, but by then they'll have spent more money on Star Citizen than they would have to play a MMO for several years.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on July 05, 2013, 08:39:18 PM
The Star Citizen Economy. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0qXEAqYIH8)

Now this could be interesting (if it will really happen). What do you think?

EDIT: More details. Lots. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/13128-The-Star-Citizen-Economy)




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on July 06, 2013, 04:37:10 AM
I read it last night and it looks damn impressive. It *might* work because, as far as I understand, Star Citizen won't feature a single server like Eve or a traditional multi-server model, focusing instead on small "shards". But will the general economy (prices etc.) link every one of those shards together? And also, will the players shatter the developers' dreams about economy on Day 1 when there will be a massive influx of goods?

Meanwhile, 13M reached:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link//13131-13-Million
Quote
The $13 million goal adds frigates to the roster of player-flyable ships and introduces one very cool new element for gameplay: the Command and Control Center. Found as an optional seat on larger ships, the C&C lets you coordinate the battle between multiple ships: let your friends or NPCs who are flying escort know where to go and what to do.

14M:

 - Hibernation Mode: for the explorers out there, we will add the ability to save and resume while you are out in space. When not in combat, power your ship down, hit the bunk, and exit the game safely until you can resume your journey.
- Professional-quality feature-length “Behind the Scenes of Star Citizen” documentary film.
- A fourth landout option on Earth! Where will it be? London? Berlin?

15M:
- Additional flyable ship class: escort carrier
- The Upgrade Handbook: an extra 42-page manual that walks players through the process of customizing and overclocking their ship systems! (PDF free to all backers before $15 million)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: KallDrexx on July 06, 2013, 08:55:26 AM
Wait what?

What happens if you have to quit while you are in space and they don't hit the $14M mark?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on July 06, 2013, 08:57:56 AM
Wait what?

What happens if you have to quit while you are in space and they don't hit the $14M mark?

You probably resume travel from where you left off next time you log in?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 06, 2013, 08:58:40 AM
( Econ ) Looks good to me, its like Freelancer turned to 11.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on July 06, 2013, 09:21:34 AM
Yeah, that save thing sounds weird. I love how some stuff that is absoilutely a given in any game is some sort of stretch goal here. So eventually if after having raised 25M you will find yourself unable to pilot your ship with keyboard and mouse, they can always say "Sorry, support for additional peripherals beyond joypad and Oculus Rift was the 26M stretch goal. Bummer".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 06, 2013, 09:34:08 AM
You guys may be reading too much into it. That sounds like a single player option, that's an option instead of needing to land somewhere.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: KallDrexx on July 06, 2013, 11:00:20 AM
You guys may be reading too much into it. That sounds like a single player option, that's an option instead of needing to land somewhere.

That's my point though.  I sometimes have to stop playing games at random times.  It sucks that they have to raise $1million more in order for me not to be stressed out over wheither I can quit or spend time looking for a save point.

It's only a non-issue if they have landing spots all around and it's trivial to stop what you are doing and leave, otherwise it's a pain in the ass.  And the know this, which is why they are making it a stretch goal for a game that has made millions more than they planned for.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on July 06, 2013, 04:04:11 PM
I got an email from RSI noting that today was the final day to get the "Aurora LX, ORIGIN 350r, M50, Starfarer, Caterpillar, Gladiator or Retaliator."

Mind you, of that list, only the Aurora exists as more than a name. The rest have no stats and no concept art, just a short description of what it's going to be for someday, in theory. :oh_i_see:

Also, the price tags on those are in order: $25, $100, $80, $175, $225, $150, and $250. SC has already become a rich man's game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on July 06, 2013, 07:30:30 PM
I got an email from RSI noting that today was the final day to get the "Aurora LX, ORIGIN 350r, M50, Starfarer, Caterpillar, Gladiator or Retaliator."

Mind you, of that list, only the Aurora exists as more than a name. The rest have no stats and no concept art, just a short description of what it's going to be for someday, in theory. :oh_i_see:

Also, the price tags on those are in order: $25, $100, $80, $175, $225, $150, and $250. SC has already become a rich man's game.

Indeed.  I know a guy who is pretty big into the game so far and keeps giving me  updates.  He says everything will be available in game via in game methods or whatever, but given the price points, I have to assume these ships are going to take a LONG time to get in game.  I have to say, the whole thing makes me feel a bit alienated from what would otherwise be a project that, at least on paper, looks like everything I'm looking for.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sophismata on July 06, 2013, 09:25:01 PM
I got an email from RSI noting that today was the final day to get the "Aurora LX, ORIGIN 350r, M50, Starfarer, Caterpillar, Gladiator or Retaliator."

Mind you, of that list, only the Aurora exists as more than a name. The rest have no stats and no concept art, just a short description of what it's going to be for someday, in theory. :oh_i_see:

Also, the price tags on those are in order: $25, $100, $80, $175, $225, $150, and $250. SC has already become a rich man's game.

Indeed.  I know a guy who is pretty big into the game so far and keeps giving me  updates.  He says everything will be available in game via in game methods or whatever, but given the price points, I have to assume these ships are going to take a LONG time to get in game.  I have to say, the whole thing makes me feel a bit alienated from what would otherwise be a project that, at least on paper, looks like everything I'm looking for.

The difference between this and HEX is that people spending hundreds of dollars on Star Citizen are crazy. Never mind thousands. HEX is a clone of a fun, highly successful physical TCG and will have a secondary market. There is no prior example of Star Citizen's lofty goals ever being crystallised into a fun game - and actually MANY examples of MMO sandbox worlds that failed hard.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on July 06, 2013, 09:59:34 PM


The difference between this and HEX is that people spending hundreds of dollars on Star Citizen are crazy. Never mind thousands. HEX is a clone of a fun, highly successful physical TCG and will have a secondary market. There is no prior example of Star Citizen's lofty goals ever being crystallised into a fun game - and actually MANY examples of MMO sandbox worlds that failed hard.

Preaching to the choir, I made a similar point a couple of pages ago.  Also, in Hex levels had the huge draw of weekly drafts (for life no less!).  That kind of sustaining value feels easier to drop money on than "Here is another 50 bucks for another virtual space ship" for me.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on July 06, 2013, 11:15:19 PM
I spent just enough to secure a copy of the game along with alpha & beta. I think like 45 Bucks. Although I am legitimately interested, there is no way I'm spending more than that. The game looks like a hard to pull off pipe dream. All I am comfortable spending on pipe dreams is roughly a box cost.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Goreschach on July 07, 2013, 02:12:07 AM
The fallout from this game's inevitable failure is going to be exquisite.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on July 07, 2013, 08:03:16 AM
The difference between this and HEX is that people spending hundreds of dollars on Star Citizen are crazy. Never mind thousands. HEX is a clone of a fun, highly successful physical TCG and will have a secondary market. There is no prior example of Star Citizen's lofty goals ever being crystallised into a fun game - and actually MANY examples of MMO sandbox worlds that failed hard.
There is no difference.  They're both games in production and we can point out many shitty card games.  It's just a matter of whether the concept put forth interests you or not.

We have all the Wing Commanders and two Privateers as pedigree, plus several other space games such as the X series and EVE for concept.  People spending large sums of money on either are crazy, but that's our choice.  Don't do it if you don't have faith in the product.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sophismata on July 07, 2013, 10:24:49 AM
Preaching to the choir, I made a similar point a couple of pages ago.  Also, in Hex levels had the huge draw of weekly drafts (for life no less!).  That kind of sustaining value feels easier to drop money on than "Here is another 50 bucks for another virtual space ship" for me.
I was more trying to springboard off your point than argue against it...

We have all the Wing Commanders and two Privateers as pedigree, plus several other space games such as the X series and EVE for concept.  People spending large sums of money on either are crazy, but that's our choice.  Don't do it if you don't have faith in the product.
Magic the Gathering actually exists, though. It's hugely successful, and a lot of fun. There has never been a successful attempt to make what Star Citizen is trying to be. Wing Commander, X, and Privateer are all single player. Eve is a completely different game.

We're all crazy, but some people are more crazy than others.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 07, 2013, 12:18:23 PM
There has never been a successful attempt to make what Star Citizen is trying to be.
   

    Wing Commander Saga: The Darkest Dawn (2012),
    Brute Force (2003), Microsoft Game Studios
Freelancer (2003), Microsoft Game Studios
    Conquest: Frontier Wars (2001), Ubi Soft Entertainment Software
    Starlancer (2000), Microsoft Corporation    
    Wing Commander IV: The Price of Freedom (1996), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Super Wing Commander (1994), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Wing Commander Armada (1994), Dong Seo Interactive
    Wing Commander III: Heart of the Tiger (1994), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Wing Commander / Wing Commander II (Special CD-ROM Edition) (1994), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Strike Commander (1993), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Strike Commander (CD-ROM Edition) (1993), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Strike Commander: Tactical Operations (1993), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Wing Commander: Privateer (1993), Electronic Arts, Inc., ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander II: Vengeance of the Kilrathi - Special Operations 2 (1992), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander II: Vengeance of the Kilrathi (1991), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander II: Vengeance of the Kilrathi - Special Operations 1 (1991), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander: The Secret Missions 2 - Crusade (1991), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.    
    Wing Commander (1990), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander: The Secret Missions (1990), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.    
    Ultima V: Warriors of Destiny (1988), MicroProse Ltd.    

Not even the full list. This body of work is what I base my expectations on. I could give two shits about a trading card money game. For real. That, to my knowledge, has had one successful title.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on July 07, 2013, 03:05:44 PM
None of those to my knowledge were selling ships for 250 a pop.  This also has a lot more multiplayer to it than those titles, to my knowledge.

If this was a one off purchase for 50 bucks I would probably buy it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 07, 2013, 03:49:14 PM
The prices right now are "crowd funding'. Not Retail. Perhaps that's the problem. AFAIK, the single player will be market price. Not sure what the Online part will cost, ETC..


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on July 07, 2013, 04:16:30 PM
I want to play the game. It's 85% of the dream MMG doc I've been evolving on my hard drive since 2004, I have reasonable confidence it will ship and do >50% of what he wants, and I shelled out for the "Freelancer" bundle that came with a ship plus a bunch of physical goods (soundtrack, art book, USB drive, some other stuff). It wasn't much more than the high-end "Collector's Editions" these days, and it came with things I want a hell of a lot more than a bulky, breakable [dragon/sith/charr/etc.] statue.

I'm willing to pitch in when I have a good idea of the end result and think the cost is justified. $150 for nothing more than "It's a really fast ship" "(or whatever) leaves me cold. I wish that rather than money-for-ships, they'd set up the store as a Kickstart-like money-for-features; "When people pledge X dollars total, we'll have enough to design and implement walking in stations, and we'll bill everyone for it."

I mean, it's nice they're getting a swank audio studio and mocap facility, but I'd MUCH rather know that my money was going towards more and more polished game features.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on July 07, 2013, 04:18:11 PM
The problem is if you are rmt'ing ships now. You most likely will be rmt'ing ships after release.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on July 07, 2013, 09:28:56 PM
I imagine a lot of people paying big money right now are either hardcore wing commander fans or EvE players who know how potentially game breaking lifetime insurance on a large ship could be.  If we knew much more about the game I might buy more ships to add to my pledge account.  Depending on how fuel and PvP and system ownership works I would be interested in buying one of those fuel haulers with lifetime insurance.  They have said that insurance won't replace your ship immediately and that the larger the ship the longer it will take, but we have no actual numbers.  The fact that the lifetime insurance is on the hull, and that they say you will be able to sell that hull on the market, could also make them extremely good sources of in game currency once things are stable.  Everyone will at some point need a decent low end cargo vessel to move their crap around, I could see people buying multiple freelancers now to sell later.

They will be rmt'ing new ships though, the best way for them to make money is to make the old ships obsolete so who knows what the value of the initial lifetime insurance hulls will be.

That said I think they are promising way too much, I can't see them managing to deliver on most of it.  The systems they are talking about are just too complicated and worse yet they all hinge on the most unknown variable, what players themselves do.  They're just not going to be able to test things until it is fully released and they see how the playerbase decides to play the game.  The first year is going to be an absolute nightmare until they get the systems straight.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on July 07, 2013, 10:47:23 PM
I am impressed by the hype. If that game flops we are going to see a spike in the suicide rate among the 20-40 year old male pretend space pilot demographic. :why_so_serious:



Quote
   Wing Commander Saga: The Darkest Dawn (2012),
    Brute Force (2003), Microsoft Game Studios
Freelancer (2003), Microsoft Game Studios
    Conquest: Frontier Wars (2001), Ubi Soft Entertainment Software
    Starlancer (2000), Microsoft Corporation    
    Wing Commander IV: The Price of Freedom (1996), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Super Wing Commander (1994), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Wing Commander Armada (1994), Dong Seo Interactive
    Wing Commander III: Heart of the Tiger (1994), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Wing Commander / Wing Commander II (Special CD-ROM Edition) (1994), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Strike Commander (1993), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Strike Commander (CD-ROM Edition) (1993), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Strike Commander: Tactical Operations (1993), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Wing Commander: Privateer (1993), Electronic Arts, Inc., ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander II: Vengeance of the Kilrathi - Special Operations 2 (1992), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander II: Vengeance of the Kilrathi (1991), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander II: Vengeance of the Kilrathi - Special Operations 1 (1991), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander: The Secret Missions 2 - Crusade (1991), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.    
    Wing Commander (1990), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander: The Secret Missions (1990), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.    
    Ultima V: Warriors of Destiny (1988), MicroProse Ltd.  
 

You missed that Wing Commander tactic spin off. Whatever it was called. Build bases, move your carrier in a turn based 4x game. When it comes to combat the game turns into a Wing Commander fighter game again. That was fun!11

Also, I know Privateer I will always be the original (and great). But Privateer II: The Darkening was seriously awesome. How many other computer games feature William Hurt, Jürgen Prochnow and Christopher Walken?! Oh, and Clive Owen was there too, looking sexy!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Kageru on July 08, 2013, 04:34:30 AM
I am impressed by the hype. If that game flops we are going to see a spike in the suicide rate among the 20-40 year old male pretend space pilot demographic. :why_so_serious:

... since most of them play Eve surely they are used to disappointment by now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Tebonas on July 08, 2013, 06:19:05 AM
There is a multiplayer part? I just wanted another Privateer. Lets see if they can deliver that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on July 15, 2013, 04:52:57 AM
Quote
If that game flops we are going to see a spike in the suicide rate among the 20-40 year old male pretend space pilot demographic.

Please open a crisis hotline for us.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on July 15, 2013, 04:58:51 AM
Why is this even in the PC/Console Gaming forum anyway? Isn't this MMO?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on July 15, 2013, 05:03:40 AM
Why is this even in the PC/Console Gaming forum anyway? Isn't this MMO?

Is it even a game yet?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on July 15, 2013, 05:05:11 AM
The whole forum separation has gotten really weird and that's probably a sign of how games have been evolving in the past few years. World of Tanks is in the MMO section and it really is not one. MechWarrior is the same identical game and is in the PC/Console section instead. And Star Citizen, well, no on really knows exactly how the single player/multiplayer are gonna work, but seems like there will be some persistent centralized servers, but you can run it offline too or on private servers, so hard to place it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on July 15, 2013, 05:09:41 AM
Why is this even in the PC/Console Gaming forum anyway? Isn't this MMO?


The entire project consists of two games:

- "Squadron 42" (plus a "secret ops" style extra set of missions) is the single-player game, directly inspirated by the space sims/shooter of the nineties (Wing Commander, X-wing, Freespace, etc.).

- "Star Citizen" will be the proper multiplayer game set in the same universe (but they won't use the same server model of the traditional MMOs, nor a global server like EVE).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 25, 2013, 05:57:06 PM


Breathing New Life Into PC Games & Space Sims podcast - Chris Roberts - SxSW 2013  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZWaBnpSvUk&feature=youtu.be)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on July 25, 2013, 07:41:20 PM
Can enjoy that purely on the basis of him kicking moviebob square in the nuts at 2:40


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Phred on July 25, 2013, 08:03:07 PM
The whole forum separation has gotten really weird and that's probably a sign of how games have been evolving in the past few years. World of Tanks is in the MMO section and it really is not one. MechWarrior is the same identical game and is in the PC/Console section instead. And Star Citizen, well, no on really knows exactly how the single player/multiplayer are gonna work, but seems like there will be some persistent centralized servers, but you can run it offline too or on private servers, so hard to place it.

Same reason Path of Exile is in the MMO section while Diablo 3 is in Single player.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Kageru on July 25, 2013, 08:06:08 PM
Can enjoy that purely on the basis of him kicking moviebob square in the nuts at 2:40

Agree with that, the guy also seems to have his head on straight, hope he can take the game to successful completion.

The idea of a big open world from which you can seque into and out of single player experiences, with a lot of shared assets, sounds pretty economical and good for retention. Building a world that can be expanded more or less indefinitely is a great plan for a smaller company, especially if they design game content that can be re-used and replicated in the open world section.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on July 25, 2013, 09:39:47 PM
The conversations that Roberts has about gaming are the reason i backed the game with approximately what a box might cost.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on July 28, 2013, 09:08:07 PM
I spent a lot of time going over pretty much everything yet available on this project.

My impression of the whole system is that it is incredibly ambitious in a way which typically leads to scalebacks and oversimplification, but in this case isn't necessarily the case.

At any rate, though, they need to be very scared of the potential problems that their approach can cause. They're saying "We will have a system which will allow you to tweak your ship and go around the cosmos seeking little tweaks and improvements, but there's no equipment 'levels,' and your game choices won't be simple optimization or boating, and there will be a huge number of different weapons that each fulfill a different niche, you don't have to use this you can just be a casual player who can hop in a ship and it works great!


I mean, okay, you can also promise a pony. This is a very difficult thing to balance out without bad outcomes.

Boating and maxing would simply be your largest problems. Since most of your decisionmaking for a frame is a pretty simple to calculate tradeoff of performance (speed, maneuverability, available power) and firepower (probably including tradeoffs involving pure DPS, effective sustainable DPS, ammo limits, effective range, and tracking/projectile speed between all weapon types), you will quickly find without some extensive balancing magic that the best builds are either "boaty" — taking the efficiency of a specific weapon/item and simply multiplying it as much as you can by placing as many of it as you can fit — or otherwise maximizing a specific output like speed or lack of signature or something. It leads to a sterilizing situation. One sort of ship you are 'supposed' to be running. You all know the deal, and I'm sort of repeating the same discussion verbatim.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on August 01, 2013, 03:56:48 PM
$15 million goal reached:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13159-15-Million

Quote
It’s unbelievable: Star Citizen fans have helped us reach the $15 million mark without any special promotion! Ten years ago, big publishers decided space games weren’t profitable… and you are proving them very, very wrong!

The $15 million unlock adds another flyable ship class to the game, the oft-discussed escort carrier. Every backer will also get a free digital 42-page Upgrade Handbook manual with their game which goes through the process of customizing and overclocking ship systems! We’re excited about putting this one together, since it goes right to the heart of what’s going to make Star Citizen unique.

The previously-announced $16 million stretch goals are:

- Arena mode: Arena mode is a simulation within the game, although it is not the simulator itself. Players will have access to an actual training simulator in their hangars, which will be used for the dogfight alpha. The Arena is something bigger. It is a galaxy-wide event, where players come to specific locations, pay their entry fees, and jump into space battles to prove who is the best dogfighter of all. Think of it as a combination of a sports tournament and modern-day gaming contests. Each winner will receive credits for the victory, and the best of the best will meet in higher and higher rounds until a grand champion is crowned.

- A laser pistol for every pledger before this point. Keep your ship safe from boarders with a pistol by your side.
------------

With today’s achievement, we’re happy to unlock the $17 million rewards:

$17 million

- Ship upgrade package for every pledger containing an engine modifier.
- Additional flyable ship class: battlecruiser

Thank you all for your continued support. Tell your friends, Star Citizen is coming!



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on August 01, 2013, 07:23:08 PM
Ambition, ambition, ambition. What would flying a battlecruiser be like? Naval overlay in a bridge? It would be so awesome.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on August 01, 2013, 07:38:31 PM
EVE?

Commanding the Mothership in Homeworld?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on August 01, 2013, 08:39:07 PM
Star Citizen is profitable right now only because the money hasn't been spent on development.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on August 02, 2013, 12:37:58 AM
Star Citizen is profitable right now only because the money hasn't been spent on development.

Don't you fuckin ruin the mood man. Wait a few days before you crush my fantasy with your reality talk.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on August 02, 2013, 08:34:58 AM
I'm torn between deciding which analytic approach I want to pursue for the development timeframe of Star Citizen. Hope, or cynicism? I know I want this game to be even half as cool as Roberts' is primping it out to be, and I already know I will like the structure and concept of the game, since there's a big itch in my life for a game which has the same general structure, world interactivity, and intended concept that Freelancer did, straight down to the planet landing sequences, bars, trade routes, and shit. And even if I anticipate the scale of his project to be brutally ground down by development realities and could bet good cold solid hard cash that this game will be delivered substantially after his intended timeframe, I still think what it might get ground down into ... might be awesome. Maybe. But you know how often this doesn't turn out.

Maybe I should be just like this ridiculous cheerleader for the game just to mix things up a bit. Be the Hype Train.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on August 02, 2013, 10:07:57 AM
Every few years I drop my skepticism to jump on a hype train for a ride. I havent been on a hype train since vanguard. So i am going to ride this one and see how it rides.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on August 02, 2013, 04:05:18 PM
I think I'll start by replaying freelancer


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: K9 on August 02, 2013, 05:16:04 PM
I havent been on a hype train since vanguard.

 :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 02, 2013, 05:23:13 PM
I think I'll start by replaying freelancer


I did that recently, with the Discovery mod. I recommend.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on August 02, 2013, 06:51:11 PM
I think I'll start by replaying freelancer


I did that recently, with the Discovery mod. I recommend.

I'm really seriously trying to get Discovery to work so I can do multiplayer stuff. My legitimate copy of Freelancer doesn't even install correctly anymore, and torrented copies of Freelancer have never worked right with the newest versions.

Hrmf.

Until someone can help me work that pile of nuttery out, I am playing the singleplayer. But, as I've noted once long ago, Freelancer is a game that only begins when it ends, and you're set free to explore.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 16, 2013, 08:26:53 PM
Wingman's Hangar ep034 . August 16, 2013 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=astDHngLzyk&feature=youtu.be)

Great stuff in the "Forum feedback with Chris Roberts" part.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 20, 2013, 12:12:33 PM
Star Citizen Interview w/ Chris Roberts: Hangar Module Preview, Dog-Fighting Updates  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCmArFCKHUA&feature=youtu.be)


Hanger Mod in 4 days.  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on August 20, 2013, 04:12:45 PM
Yep, and expect severe stress on the download server(s), with the usual drama unfolding on the forums; nothing new, really  :grin: . From what I gathered, first we'll have to download the launcher/patcher (which will also be used for future patching and the dogfighting alpha), then the whole hangar client.

Can't wait to check out my Freelancer, Origin 315p, Aurora LX and Origin M50 (will I get the business or deluxe hangar, by the way?)  :drill:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on August 20, 2013, 05:20:41 PM
I explained to my dad today "no, see, that's the thing, they're paying money for the promise of a digital spaceship that you can fly around in a game."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 22, 2013, 03:10:46 PM
Quote
In other Star Citizen news, Roberts recently told Eurogamer that he no longer needs traditional investor money to make the game. "I'm actually not taking money from investors now. The budget for what we're delivering is about $20 million, and we're almost there [via crowdfunding] -- we'll probably be there before the end of the year," he said. Don't forget to click past the cut to view the video!

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/08/22/gamescom-2013-roberts-demos-star-citizens-hangar-module/

Also, Hanger is today Saturday I think, there is also a video in the above article.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on August 22, 2013, 04:23:42 PM
If you ever wanted to gaze deeply into Chris Roberts' eyes...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on August 23, 2013, 05:41:33 PM
Tomorrow (Saturday)  the Hangar Module will be officialy unveiled at Gamescom (it will stream live on the official game website from 2 to 3pm CST, 9 to 10pm CET). Release to backers will happen on August 29th. You can find all the details (plus a FAQ at the end of the article) at this link:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13214-Letter-From-The-Chairman-The-Hangar-Module

Quote
The first release of the Hangar Module is coming! We will be making the very first revision of the Hangar online exclusively for backers the week following its unveiling at Gamescom at our event on the 24th of August. The presentation will stream live on RSI from 2 to 3 PM CST. The module itself will be available for download for all backers starting August 29.


I’d like to take a moment to discuss exactly what you’re getting. First and foremost, the Hangar Module you will load next week is by no means a finished product. It is the earliest build of anything I have ever shared with the public. In fact, it’s at an even earlier stage than I would feel comfortable giving to any publisher I’ve worked with in the past and long before I would be sharing builds with QA in a traditional game development schedule! But Star Citizen is all about trying new approaches in game development.


The Hangar Module was not something we promised during the initial crowdfunding campaign. We had originally promised to share how the game was made with regular updates on our website and give early backers access the full game’s Alpha and Beta builds. But once we started development we came upon the idea of taking the constant public iteration that you get with a “live” online game and applying it during the game’s development to allow us to engage and involve the Star Citizen community of backers in the process of the making of the game. The Hangar Module seemed like a natural choice for our first public facing deliverable. While it may not be as glamorous as the Dogfighting Module which we aim to deliver by the end of this year, it requires a whole bunch of content and functionality that the final game will use, from the ships and their data structures, to communicating with your account to installing and patching the client. The Hangar Module will be the base foundation that everything is added as we release additional modules, eventually cumulating in the full persistent world alpha / beta.


Revision 1 of the Hangar will be very simple. You will be able to walk around, enter the initial pledge ships and explore a ground level in CryEngine that shows the kind of detail we are putting into the full game. It is intended as a very basic example of our direction that we are putting out to reward our backers, something to give you a chance to view “your” ship for the first time. Be warned, we have only just begun the QA process. This is the first stable build, not a slick “open beta” or anything designed as a promotional tool. We’re letting you in on the ground floor because we want to open up the process. Expect to encounter crashes, rendering bugs and other issues. Your feedback will help improve Star Citizen.


We need your help to test the hangar, just like you will be testing the game itself. After release, we will open a special forum for reporting and tracking hangar bugs. Your reports will go directly to the team, who will act on the bugs. Please don’t report them to the support e-mail, as our CS staff won’t be able to walk through hangar issues just yet!

In the coming months, we plan to release additional “major” Revisions of the Hangar, where we add more functionality and content. Things like detailed customization of your personal hangar, persistence of the state of all your items (what is equipped and where), in client item purchasing and the ability to invite your friends to your hangar will be part of later revisions of the Hangar Module.

Just because we’ve launched a module to the community doesn’t mean that it’s completely done. It just means its ready for the community’s feedback and stress testing! Our plan is to update each module (Hangar, Dogfighting, Planet, Ship-boarding) multiple times as new features and content are completed before the full integration into the persistent universe.

Over the coming months additional ships and upgrades will become available (as they are completed) and we will continue to enhance the level of interactivity. The goal is for the Hangar to go from a very simple pre-alpha build to a full featured module before your eyes! It’s something no one has done with an AAA game before. It’s a little daunting, but it’s also another new way to share the development process with our backers.The first release of the Hangar Module is coming! We will be making the very first revision of the Hangar online exclusively for backers the week following its unveiling at Gamescom at our event on the 24th of August. The presentation will stream live on RSI from 2 to 3 PM CST. The module itself will be available for download for all backers starting August 29.


I’d like to take a moment to discuss exactly what you’re getting. First and foremost, the Hangar Module you will load next week is by no means a finished product. It is the earliest build of anything I have ever shared with the public. In fact, it’s at an even earlier stage than I would feel comfortable giving to any publisher I’ve worked with in the past and long before I would be sharing builds with QA in a traditional game development schedule! But Star Citizen is all about trying new approaches in game development.


The Hangar Module was not something we promised during the initial crowdfunding campaign. We had originally promised to share how the game was made with regular updates on our website and give early backers access the full game’s Alpha and Beta builds. But once we started development we came upon the idea of taking the constant public iteration that you get with a “live” online game and applying it during the game’s development to allow us to engage and involve the Star Citizen community of backers in the process of the making of the game. The Hangar Module seemed like a natural choice for our first public facing deliverable. While it may not be as glamorous as the Dogfighting Module which we aim to deliver by the end of this year, it requires a whole bunch of content and functionality that the final game will use, from the ships and their data structures, to communicating with your account to installing and patching the client. The Hangar Module will be the base foundation that everything is added as we release additional modules, eventually cumulating in the full persistent world alpha / beta.


Revision 1 of the Hangar will be very simple. You will be able to walk around, enter the initial pledge ships and explore a ground level in CryEngine that shows the kind of detail we are putting into the full game. It is intended as a very basic example of our direction that we are putting out to reward our backers, something to give you a chance to view “your” ship for the first time. Be warned, we have only just begun the QA process. This is the first stable build, not a slick “open beta” or anything designed as a promotional tool. We’re letting you in on the ground floor because we want to open up the process. Expect to encounter crashes, rendering bugs and other issues. Your feedback will help improve Star Citizen.


We need your help to test the hangar, just like you will be testing the game itself. After release, we will open a special forum for reporting and tracking hangar bugs. Your reports will go directly to the team, who will act on the bugs. Please don’t report them to the support e-mail, as our CS staff won’t be able to walk through hangar issues just yet!

In the coming months, we plan to release additional “major” Revisions of the Hangar, where we add more functionality and content. Things like detailed customization of your personal hangar, persistence of the state of all your items (what is equipped and where), in client item purchasing and the ability to invite your friends to your hangar will be part of later revisions of the Hangar Module.

Just because we’ve launched a module to the community doesn’t mean that it’s completely done. It just means its ready for the community’s feedback and stress testing! Our plan is to update each module (Hangar, Dogfighting, Planet, Ship-boarding) multiple times as new features and content are completed before the full integration into the persistent universe.

Over the coming months additional ships and upgrades will become available (as they are completed) and we will continue to enhance the level of interactivity. The goal is for the Hangar to go from a very simple pre-alpha build to a full featured module before your eyes! It’s something no one has done with an AAA game before. It’s a little daunting, but it’s also another new way to share the development process with our backers.

Can't wait to post some screenshots and maybe a video(there is no NDA, of course :P) :)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 23, 2013, 11:34:14 PM
I Find this method of development, "public iterations" quite cool. I hope it will make for a very solid product as they go along.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on August 24, 2013, 02:47:36 AM
So...you walk around some static geometry in CryEngine?

(Or "geo" as we industry douches like to call it.)



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on August 24, 2013, 06:58:08 AM
Maybe it's to appeal to the Eve pilots.  Many an hour were spent locked in hangar bays unable to exit due to enemies and such.  You had better be able to spin your ship around and around.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on August 24, 2013, 05:06:49 PM
http://www.twitch.tv/roberts_space_ind_ch_1/c/2809927

Skip to 22 minutes for the "gameplay" demo.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on August 24, 2013, 05:14:10 PM
Quite the sycophant crowd there.  Wooooohhh fucking LADDERS!!!  Crash.  Applause.

Edit: That was embarrassing.  All the vocal members of that audience should be shot dead.  WHOOOOOOOOOOOAH some minor thing APPLAUSE!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on August 24, 2013, 05:32:08 PM
The fuck kind of sorcery are they working where an acknowledged super-rudimentary super-this-is-a-level-beyond-early-alpha tech demo gets that kind of crowd response


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on August 25, 2013, 06:42:50 PM
They have been sold a digital dash of hope that they will finally get their updated deep space game without some big publisher shitting all over it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on August 25, 2013, 09:04:52 PM
Also I think it was a bar or something. I guess I could be all over getting sauced and WOOOO'ing at a digital demo of Freelancrysis' pimpin garage.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on August 28, 2013, 05:54:24 PM
Hangar release imminent! (yeah, well, still planned for tomorrow, August 29th, anyway) :

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13232-Hangar-Release-Imminent



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 29, 2013, 12:22:06 PM
Yep, Hanger releace day. I'm all:

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md97l8II4h1riv8lvo1_500.gif)

While Roberts is all:

(http://i.imgur.com/Q1FmUF1.jpg)

However, anyone paying attention should know, this system is going to fail, they hope it does. Better now than later. Part of the entire exercise is to test the data servers and the patcher system ETC.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on August 29, 2013, 03:45:41 PM
My wardrobe is ready!!

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQDKZFlN2XPUuU-cRePgWbfGe_piwlygz4jZvVUmQW3ueWOyeqnIw)

 :why_so_serious:

But seriously, I wish I was ready: unfortunately I'll be able to check out my invaluable virtual properties only next monday :( (unless I purchase a decent computer for my GF, tomorrow :P)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 29, 2013, 04:16:13 PM
I Expect delays, so your golden.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on August 29, 2013, 06:17:35 PM
....Aaaand it's out!

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13233-Hangar-Module-Released


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on August 29, 2013, 11:46:00 PM
And?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on August 30, 2013, 12:21:24 AM
And so far, it's a long wait followed by "ACCOUNT LOGIN TIMED OUT."

Like any MMO launch, really.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on August 30, 2013, 04:16:04 AM
I was unable to spin my ship like in Eve, I honestly miss that.

Other than that not much to say, as advertised it's just a big room with a ship in it that you can walk around.  Controls had some serious latency, you press jump or move and it takes a good half second before anything happens.  Patcher was nice looking.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 30, 2013, 07:34:47 AM
Download and install was painless for me.

EDIT: Yep. They check a second time it seems after log in to get the data I guess. I'm getting the "ACCOUNT LOGIN TIMED OUT." while trying to load too.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 30, 2013, 10:09:04 AM
Finally got in. This is so cool. This has to be some of the most fully realized and engineered ships I have ever seen in a video game. I just want to open my cargo door on my freelancer all day long.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Xuri on August 30, 2013, 02:39:25 PM
Managed to get into the hangar as well, earlier today, and I not-really-but-almost clapped my hands and went "gleeeeeeeee" as I ran around the place and looked at my ship from all angles. Apparently the hangar itself scales to fit all your ships, though I have only one - the Freelancer. Curiously, said Freelancer had two functional seats (with controls) in the cockpit. Hmm!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 30, 2013, 03:53:17 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/bhPExqT.jpg)

Quote
Found @ the labeling of a 325a


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on August 30, 2013, 05:45:06 PM
They spelled "personnel" wrong.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 30, 2013, 11:12:39 PM
Quote
Greetings Citizens,
I hope you are all enjoying the early release of the Hangar Module. Now that the build has rolled out to many fans, we’re going to add a new layer to keep the experience interesting! Today we’re unlocking additional items in the RSI store that you can use in your Hangar. Two types of items will be available: decorative hangar items like posters and trophies as well as ship upgrade parts like laser cannons and tractor beams.

You may have noticed that the RSI website now includes a ‘credit ledger’ which shows your United Earth Credit (UEC, or “Imperials”) balance. When you download the Hangar Module for the first time you are awarded 5,000 UEC to play around with in this new system. Many of our early backers also have credits they earned during the first days of the pledge campaign. Credits included in pledge packages are not yet represented here because you will need some credits in order to start the game itself; we don’t want players bankrupting themselves and locking themselves out of space travel! You can use these credits to buy ship parts and hangar items which you can then interact with in your hangar.

The key is that this all ties directly in to the finished game. The items you see for sale through the website are the ones that will be available galaxy-wide in a number of stores. Here you access it through an online store, Voyager Direct, which is a futuristic equivalent of Amazon.com. You may well need to travel across the galaxy to find an especially rare or advanced laser… but you will always be able to purchase a reliable Behring M3A from a local arms dealer. To prevent players from stockpiling credits and damaging their game experience, we are imposing a strict 25,000 UEC-per-day limit and an upper bound cap of 150,000 UEC on your ledger at any time. Similarly, you cannot melt these items as you would a game package: once you have purchased them they are considered ‘played with.’ When the game launches you will be able to sell them to NPCs or trade them to other players… and until then, they’re yours!

There are several limitations you should be aware of right now. At this time, decorating your Hangar is not persistent. If you move a laser to a particular ship and then quit the game it will go back into your storage area. Additionally, only one of every decoration will appear at the moment. While you can have multiple lamps in your web inventory, only one can appear in each hangar at this time. Both of these things will change as the Hangar Module expands. Ultimately, the web store will go away and be replaced with an in-game interface starting with the first release of the Planetside Module.

As previously stated, additional Imperials will be available for purchase within the limitations discussed above. Please keep in mind that you are not under any obligation to purchase Imperials at this time. We are giving you the option right now because there isn’t a way to earn credits in the game (as we’re still building it!) and this is a great way to let you support the development of the game as well as play with other game elements we’ve already created. But be warned, purchasing a stock of extra lasers through the catalog right now will not provide any great advantage when Star Citizen launches; there will be a lot more to discover in the living universe and some of the best weapons or upgrades will have to be earned through gameplay or sought out by traveling to the appropriate planet to buy them. Ultimately all items in the store today and in game will be purchasable via UEC earned in game. Outside of the initial ship package everything will be purchasable through UEC in the final game. There is no pay to win here!

The UEC Store is a great way to let players start interacting with the game world while continuing to support Star Citizen’s development. As more features of the Hangar Module are rolled out, we will offer further ship parts and decorative (and interactive) items for your hangar. This will be one of the ways we demonstrate our dedication to keeping the Star Citizen setting fresh: just like the game will have a responsive live team, the Hangar Module will feature a continually expanding amount of content!

Please enjoy your new found freedom to experiment with items in your Hangar! This is your first taste of how ship upgrades and other personalization elements will work in Star Citizen…


Quote
   

Many Citizens have experienced delays and other issues downloading the Hangar Module and patches. We are aware of the issues and are working to resolve them as quickly as possible. Wondering what happened? Here’s the explanation from our cloud hosting service:

    It used more outbound bandwidth from the storage server than we’ve ever seen by an order of magnitude for the 30 minutes or so following your release.

We are establishing a “origin shield” (not related to Origin Systems or EA’s hosting service) to improve load balancing and make the hangar download speeds more reasonable. All part of the testing process!

FAQ here. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13234-Letter-From-The-Chairman-Hangar-Store-Launched)

Basically the buggy is 20$. This has caused a new meme:

First Patch notes:

Quote
   

    KNOWN ISSUES:
        BUG: A wall and ladder do not render in discount hangar
        BUG: After first initial launcher patch when patcher auto restarts the sound effects may not play, toggling the mute button and restarting the launcher usually sloves the problem.
        BUG: The installer on some systems doesn’t install DirectX properly. Usually re-installing DirectX manually solves this problem. Still requires DirectX 11 and DirectX 11 compatible graphics cards
    LAUNCHER:
        NEW FEATURE: Added support for patch notes, which are also available on the website
        NEW FEATURE: Hourly patch checking, as long as the launcher is running it will check for new patches every 60mins
        BUG FIX: Closing the game client now restores the launcher music if mute is off
        BUG FIX: Launcher audio fader code works better
        BUG FIX: Now saving the state of the mute button
        TWEAK: Launcher now as a max download limit of 4MB/s to help steady traffic during heavy loads.
        TWEAK: “Webget Request Failed” message is now more descriptive
    HANGAR:
        GENERAL:
            NEW FEATURE: Ladder now forces 3rd person on use.
            BUG FIX: Interior ship lighting fixes
            BUG FIX: Adding missing foot IK helpers
            BUG FIX: Added collision detection to vehicle orbit camera
            BUG FIX: Blendspace animation fixes on door exit
            BUG FIX: Fixed 350r power plant
            TWEAK: Adjusted the fog and fog color
            TWEAK: Specular of the metal on the constellation
        HOLOTABLE:
            NEW FEATURE: Sounds for holotable
            NEW FEATURE: Added holotable to all hangars
            BUG FIX: Lots of holotable fixes
    NETWORKING:
        Added 32 more authentication servers to better handle game client authentication load
    DATA:
        112TB of patch data transferred
        59,370 download requests for the installer
        Peak transfer rate for downloads/patching: 35.31 GBps
        39,232 users have agreed to the EULA
        2,085,000 UEC have been given out to users as part of the hangar V1 reward program. (users get 5,000 UEC by downloading)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on August 31, 2013, 01:58:42 AM
In the words of Khan, "I find myself growing fatigued" of the endless sell-ups.

"Hey, you like that gameplay-free hangar module? Spend money to enjoy more non-gameplay!"

I know it's not quite that bad, but this is getting rather shameless (said the guy who backed the crowd-funding drive on the first day).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on August 31, 2013, 01:59:45 AM
This finally seems to be a game that gives a reason excuse to buy new PC parts. :heart:

A screenshot posted by someone. Spoiled due to size:


Please note the VRAM usage, almost 4 GB  :ye_gods:
(http://i.imgur.com/O68S4BW.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 31, 2013, 10:15:10 AM
I'm not sure I would use the current state as any sort of bench mark. Most likely optimization was not on the list for this.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on August 31, 2013, 10:44:45 AM
Oh, sure there will be plenty of opmitiztion. But considering it was just a hangar view the specs are more likley to go up rather than down.

Roberts himself somewhat bragged about the hardware requirements at an interview to PC Games at Gamescom in Köln. (link (http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Star-Citizen-PC-256428/Specials/Star-Citzen-Systemanforderungen-1085005), german):

  • 8 GB RAM minimum to play
  • asked if more than 8GB will be beneficial "can't say yet but, but it is likely"
  • 64-bit OS mandatory
  • quad-core PC needed
  • current generation graphic cards like GTX 770 "probably only good for medium settings".

That's quite steep. Not that I disapprove, the phrase PC Gaming Master Race needs to be filled with meaning again.  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 31, 2013, 10:48:03 AM
I guess what I mean is, there are many things they can do to improve performance in the same scene. 1:1. This is likely as raw as it gets right now.  I personally could not tell what changed between Low and Very high when I was playing with settings. The only things I noticed was it ran smoother on low, and the shadows seems to be handled slightly differently. Most other items looked just the same. Some sort of voodoo!

Anywho,

RE The shop and prices:

Quote from: wcloaf
Hey guys - long story short, we hear you. The VD store ended up coming across pretty much exactly the opposite way we wanted.  We're working out a plan right now to make this right and I will have more for you as soon as possible.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on August 31, 2013, 10:56:47 AM
Transparent cash grab grabs for cash.

Video game pricing right now is just all kinds of fucked up. You can buy a bundle of games for a dollar, get a free game and get nickle and dimed with micro-transaction, pay $60 for a AAA game, pay $60 for the alpha version of an indie game that will cost $15 on release. In terms of value per dollar it's all over the map.

It's interesting that people looking to support developers are often the ones getting ridiculously gauged.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 31, 2013, 11:15:19 AM
Well, none of that stuff is required. A fool and his money come to mind.

A few things to keep in mind.

This game is:

60$ at launch, no subscription. That grants you a single player campaign, a multiplayer game, you can host your own private server, its fully mod-able ( Including multiplayer ), and the only place any of that will be restricted is in the official persistent server, that is free to play on.

 Is 20$ too much for a buggy? Yes. But we are still in funding territory here. None of it is required for anything above at all, and everything can be bought in game though play ( The guns are said to be stock ones you will find at every dealer everywhere ). Should they have released a shop like this this soon? I don't feel its worth the backlash and perceptions at this point, clearly a bunch of good will was cashed in by launching it. It also looks like they are aware of this. IMO, if they do anything, they should remove the shop and refund everyone, and just let everyone play with everything.

We shall see.

I was unable to spin my ship like in Eve, I honestly miss that.

Did you play with the small console near your ship? You can spin for days. I will say, while the interface for that looks fancy, its kinda hard or clumsy to use. I hope it is improved. Less style, more function.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on August 31, 2013, 11:41:48 AM
They launched the shop before they launched the game. Like...2 years before.

As far as not having to buy anything, I'm sure the final game will be set up so that realistically you have to buy things to have a good experience.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on August 31, 2013, 04:10:25 PM
So, let me get this straight. People are excited about walking around a spaceship.

Is there really no ACTUAL GAME you all could be playing?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on August 31, 2013, 04:17:24 PM
So, let me get this straight. People are excited about walking around a spaceship.

Is there really no ACTUAL GAME you all could be playing?

They paid good money for the privilege, of course they're excited.  :why_so_serious:

Also, 20 bucks for a golf cart is hilarious.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on August 31, 2013, 05:12:51 PM
I was unable to spin my ship like in Eve, I honestly miss that.

Did you play with the small console near your ship? You can spin for days. I will say, while the interface for that looks fancy, its kinda hard or clumsy to use. I hope it is improved. Less style, more function.
I tried to use it, it popped up a hologram type thing with a menu but I couldn't interact with it beyond closing it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on August 31, 2013, 05:56:39 PM
So, let me get this straight. People are excited about walking around a spaceship.

Is there really no ACTUAL GAME you all could be playing?

They paid good money for the privilege, of course they're excited.  :why_so_serious:

Also, 20 bucks for a golf cart is hilarious.
People paid money for this shit?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on August 31, 2013, 06:55:50 PM
So, let me get this straight. People are excited about walking around a spaceship.

Is there really no ACTUAL GAME you all could be playing?

They paid good money for the privilege, of course they're excited.  :why_so_serious:

Also, 20 bucks for a golf cart is hilarious.
People paid money for this shit?

As I understand it, you only get access to the walking around the space station thing if you have paid money for the ships.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on August 31, 2013, 07:01:53 PM
sigh


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on August 31, 2013, 09:46:04 PM
I don't see you in any position to complain. Aren't you the one that is really exciting about an upcoming card game. With magic elves and wizards and stuff. Isn't that for kids?  :oh_i_see: :grin:

Edit: I am mocking and agree with your point. Wonder if Roberts is not worried about burning his goodwill with this. The game will have a really hard time living up to the dream version of its people are playing in their heads. (not talking about people on this forum).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on August 31, 2013, 09:57:49 PM
If the cultural and financial divide between the two projects were any smaller, I might agree. I'm also self-aware enough to know when I'm being completely hypocritical.

This is not hypocrisy.

Paying for this shit is straight stupid.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on August 31, 2013, 11:30:49 PM
I have an ironclad rule where I never ever purchase a game before release for any reason. I am probably going to throw some money at this project, though, because it's the one thing I want to succeed enough that I'll provide to the cause.

Thing is, though, is that I don't want to buy a ship, nor the hype goodies. I want to start the game from rock bottom, ground zero, in the straight up schlub ship. Like starting in the Shuttle in EV Nova, getting to eagerly anticipate the initially fast-paced diversification in ship options. I want to support a project, not buy myself up as a Space Romney.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on August 31, 2013, 11:40:31 PM
The Mega Man project is way more interesting than this stupid shit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on September 01, 2013, 05:11:41 AM
One funny aspect is that half of those entitled reging asshats who are now trying as hard as they can to have people fired at PGI by badmouthng the game before launch because some mechanics haven't been changed the way they wanted or some featires haven''t been completed fast enough are now all excited about Star Citizen and can't stop posting in the MechWarrior Online official boards about how good is Chris Roberts cause he really listens to the community and what a fantastic game Star Citizen is gonna be. Oh boy...

The sooner you ask people for money, the harder they will start growing a furious and violent sense of entitlement. But then again, at 15M earned, who cares about internet threats?
I am really, really curious to see how long the honeymoon phase will last here.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on September 01, 2013, 06:22:05 AM


Eh, PGI's situation is one where it is in a pile of deep shit that it has earned for itself, and I can really see why the community has no faith in the developers anymore.

I do like the idea that burned MWO players are latching onto Star Citizen like a rebound relationship they can rub in the face of PGI (Chris is better to me than YOU ever were!), but the general total of their jilted rage is ... valid.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on September 01, 2013, 06:22:47 AM
Oh, sure there will be plenty of opmitiztion. But considering it was just a hangar view the specs are more likley to go up rather than down.

Roberts himself somewhat bragged about the hardware requirements at an interview to PC Games at Gamescom in Köln. (link (http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Star-Citizen-PC-256428/Specials/Star-Citzen-Systemanforderungen-1085005), german):

  • 8 GB RAM minimum to play
  • asked if more than 8GB will be beneficial "can't say yet but, but it is likely"
  • 64-bit OS mandatory
  • quad-core PC needed
  • current generation graphic cards like GTX 770 "probably only good for medium settings".

That's quite steep. Not that I disapprove, the phrase PC Gaming Master Race needs to be filled with meaning again.  :grin:

What I want to know is how they make a space sim require such power. Do they model the physics of entire solar systems and let you nudge planets off their orbits?



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on September 01, 2013, 07:25:54 AM
What I want to know is how they make a space sim require such power. Do they model the physics of entire solar systems and let you nudge planets off their orbits?

CryEngine 3 (Crysis 2, 3) bumped up to the max running space battles with dozens of participants?

A very good question actually. I'll do some digging and report back.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 01, 2013, 08:59:58 AM
Quote
As some of you may have noticed we launched the very beginning of our IN-GAME store with Voyager Direct yesterday.

It had a soft launch (we deliberately kept it back from the weekly email) so we could roll it to get feedback and see how to integrate what is a tricky thing into Star Citizen at such an early stage of development.

Even with a soft launch quite a lot of people started using the store (no surprise the Buggy is the top seller!)

Unfortunately there seems to be some misunderstanding in our intentions with the prototype in-game store, as the forums erupted with a significant amount of “discussion” last night!

I have read all of the criticism and there have been many great points. One of the great things about Star Citizen’s development is that we can get feedback like this… and use it to figure out how to make things better.

The intention of creating Voyager Direct right now was the very opposite of what a lot of people are upset about. It is not supposed to be a cash shop! It’s meant to be the very opposite!

I felt that it was important that we should make clear what are in-game items, earnable via game play. This was the whole reason of segregating these new items into the Voyager Direct store rather than the pledge store. We intend for players to be earning UEC in a limited fashion as early as the dogfighting module (say for fighting so many test battles, or winning a team battle competition) and felt Voyager Direct would be the first step in getting the basic systems in place. Ultimately you will be purchasing all these game items inside the game from in-game vendors on various planets but this won’t come online until the Planetside module. Since the web team at Turbulent had already built a store interface and the team here was already creating items to outfit the hangar and ships, it seemed like an easy option to create Voyager Direct now to allow all of you to play with and check out some of the game items as they are created rather than waiting for Planetside module to see them in engine. The concept was that people that wanted to show their support and contribute towards the development cost of the game could buy some items to play with in their hangar but by establishing the prices in game terms it would also make it clear that these items are all earnable in game. I should also point out that Voyager Direct is intended only to sell cosmetic items or basic ship items that would be available on pretty much any planet – the better items will always have to be bought by actually flying to the appropriate planet or earning the via gameplay. There is no need to buy anything from Voyager Direct – it is all OPTIONAL and should be viewed the same way that you view paying for a subscription or buying a skin. All of this will be earnable in the game, without too much time invested.

I’m very opposed to having a game where ANY of the items, outside of your initial game / ship package can be only purchased with cash. I hate the bifurcation of items in most online games, even when they are just for flair items. I want Star Citizen to allow players to earn everything they need in-game for ships, upgrades and even flair.

Our plan is once Star Citizen is launched the games ongoing running and content costs (which will be significant as we’re a data & content heavy game) will be supported by the ongoing purchase of new game packages as well as the money the game will earn by some of the players choosing to buy some UEC credits with real money as they don’t have the time or patience to earn the item in game (and for this I wanted to establish a cap so someone can’t just come in and buy everything, although with a skill based game with a heavy rock paper scissors approach to ship design and weapons this won’t help that much as you think). We are making the bet that this will be enough to cover the game ongoing running costs and we will not need a subscription like other big online games live Eve Online or World of War Craft. But it is a risk as we’re taking some of the things that games use to support on-going running costs like sale of flair items and making them not require money just gameplay.

I was disappointed to see so many people feeling that we were trying to gouge people or do a money grab. I thought I had been very clear in my post yesterday that everything was optional and only should be done with the intent of supporting the game financially as opposed to something that was required. The whole team is incredibly grateful for all the incredible support we’ve received but as far as we’re concerned anything beyond the most basic pledge is optional and should be done to support the game’s development and not because you feel like you have to.

I do agree that pricing structure feels off – part of that is the problem of a blend of real world prices (cosmetic items to show support had been established at $5) and the in-game prices we need to manage. One of the other things we have been focusing on is the idea that the pledge or add on ship you opt for now should be cheaper in real money terms than its equivalent in UEC when the game is live, so the few weapons have been priced to our best guess as to what these should be relative to the actual in-game costs of a ship once the game is live. This leads to a dichotomy in value – of course a poster should be a lot less than a laser gun! It also doesn’t help that we’ve established an exchange of 1000 UEC to $1. 5000 UEC for a poster just sounds a lot more than $5! I am inclined to halve the prices in the Voyager Direct Store, with some of the smaller flair pieces, like posters getting a reduction even beyond this.
Holotable concept by Chris OliviaHolotable concept by Chris Olivia

In addition there’s been quite a few complaints about having to “pay to test”. Which absolutely was not the intention! From a testing perspective what everyone can do now with their basic hangar (and don’t forget you can move items around between ships now) we have everything we need on the testing front. There is no need to buy a poster to help test it. The real testing will happen when you can earn UEC in-game and you then buy all these items. But we appreciate everyone’s eagerness to help out, so I’m investigating the difficulty of implementing “TEST UEC” now rather than waiting for the dogfighting module – the idea would be that everyone would get a certain amount of TEST UEC at different periods and could use the credits to buy items that would exist for a day in your hangar to check them out, try them on your various ships, walls and so on. This is doable but does require some significant work on the web side, so if we take this route it will be a little while before it can be implemented. We had originally planned this for the dogfighting module (as it is useful for people to try different load outs in balancing) but we can move up the schedule if enough people think it’s important.

In the spirit of community involvement and discussion and as a big thank you for reaching $17M I think the best thing to do is to give everyone a further 5,000 UEC and let you voice your opinion on some of the proposed solutions (and know that if you vote to reduce the Voyager Direct prices we will credit back the difference in UEC to people’s accounts for people that have already spent UEC)

So let us know!
Source and vote options. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13241-17-Million)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 01, 2013, 09:06:01 AM
I tried to use it, it popped up a hologram type thing with a menu but I couldn't interact with it beyond closing it.

Hold tab for your cursor. You can pick the ship, play/read about parts, spin it ETC..

I have an ironclad rule where I never ever purchase a game before release for any reason. I am probably going to throw some money at this project, though, because it's the one thing I want to succeed enough that I'll provide to the cause.

Thing is, though, is that I don't want to buy a ship, nor the hype goodies. I want to start the game from rock bottom, ground zero, in the straight up schlub ship. Like starting in the Shuttle in EV Nova, getting to eagerly anticipate the initially fast-paced diversification in ship options. I want to support a project, not buy myself up as a Space Romney.

I believe there is a pledge level that gives no ship, for like 5$ I think. The package title is: "Shut up and take my money". Also: Civilian for 10$.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pezzle on September 01, 2013, 11:30:24 AM
If it is not supposed to be a cash shop, why is it a cash shop?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on September 01, 2013, 11:55:00 AM
If it is not supposed to be a cash shop, why is it a cash shop?

It's one of those shops that let you buy things for cash, or earn the currency via playing the game.  Of course, since you can't actually earn currency yet because there is no game.. it is just a cash shop.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pezzle on September 01, 2013, 12:07:03 PM
Even if there was a game, the fact you can buy things for cash makes it a cash shop.  Glad I avoided this one. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on September 01, 2013, 12:28:15 PM
God what a perversion this game is, cash shop before gameplay.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on September 01, 2013, 01:01:47 PM
Quote
I am really, really curious to see how long the honeymoon phase will last here.

first explanation text to fans concerned about cashgrabby stuff means that the countdown clock is ON


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 01, 2013, 03:17:55 PM
Quote

Choose the option most important to you for Voyager Direct:

A  I think the Voyager Direct items are overpriced! Please reduce them by at least 50%.  = 29%

B  Provide us with a testing system now in the form of Test UECs or temporary test items rather than wait for it to be implemented in the dogfighting module.   =23%

C  I would rather have the cosmetic items in the pledge store for real money instead of UEC.  = 5%

D Now you’ve explained this, I’m ok with the current set up. = 43%

Total Votes: 10,219

Star Citizens: 239,314

As of this posting.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on September 01, 2013, 03:41:21 PM
I need to make an RMT game and disguise With a fine coating of nicely-polished bullshit.

This entire thing is eXXXtreme absurdity.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on September 01, 2013, 06:04:24 PM
I finally got into the thing. I like that the Freelancer is so cramped that my avatar has to turn his shoulders sideways to get up and down the boarding ramp. Also, the ship's console UIs appear highly reminiscent of the early Wing Commanders.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 02, 2013, 12:39:43 PM
Most of the talk on the forums is about the freelancer foreword windows. So, not really any scandal here.

I finally got into the thing. I like that the Freelancer is so cramped that my avatar has to turn his shoulders sideways to get up and down the boarding ramp. Also, the ship's console UIs appear highly reminiscent of the early Wing Commanders.

YES, I am quite loving the freelancer. There is even a non-used-as-of-yet-turret in the back cargo hold in the roof. I Do wonder what the two seats behind the pilot and copilot are for, and the one in the cargo hold.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 02, 2013, 02:49:14 PM
Ok, I finally got a bit of time to try it out. A couple screenshots (hopefully better ones to come later):

My business hangar (it lacks the Origin M50, which is not ready for release, yet):

A view of the ORIGIN 315p

Freelancer:

Entering the Freelancer cockpit:

Also, two tips:

- turn off the excessive motion blur: open the console with the tilde key, and type "r_motion blur 0" (without the quotes)

- If your resolution isn't listed in the game settings (like 1920x1200, in my case), add the following lines to StarCitizen\CitizenClient\Data\game.cfg (any position inside the file) :

r_width = [insert your width value]
r_height = [insert your height value]

While running the Module, my graphic card is all

(http://www.slamonline.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/crying_baby_1-307x307.jpg)

While I'm all (https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSPXpENo00K9VGPpEixXUtrTpNNnATLZIN2pmMeb47QkZjNJ7GG), but everything seems fine, although I'm sure this pre-alpha won't disappoint and I'll manage to melt down everything soon enough.

(but yeah, as expected, my i7-920, 6GB RAM, Nvidia GTX 560 is struggling quite a bit)



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on September 02, 2013, 10:53:44 PM
How much did this mind-blowing experience cost you?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 03, 2013, 03:36:59 AM
How much did this mind-blowing experience cost you?

So far, I've spent € 395, which I consider the money I pledged for the full experience (S42 + Star Citizen). The hangar is just something nice they decided to release in advance. To each his own crazyness.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on September 03, 2013, 05:01:45 AM
I pledged 40$. What do I have less than you?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on September 03, 2013, 06:46:18 AM
395 euros.
Goddamn.
Full experience.
HJ, CI, CIF, BJ, BBJ, and the works.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Dark_MadMax on September 03, 2013, 07:46:47 AM

(but yeah, as expected, my i7-920, 6GB RAM, Nvidia GTX 560 is struggling quite a bit)



 "as expected"? 560 is pretty damn nice card i frankly wouldnt expect it to "struggle". good thing release is 2 years away  as I still run everything on gtx465 and i5


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on September 03, 2013, 07:57:01 AM
I am the first one to get excited about the dream of future games I might like, and that's why I contributed to this one too. But damn, Star Citizen is evolving (very quickly) into a religion, its fans rabid zealots eager to empty their pockets to the feet of the prophet, who graces them with digital promises.

We'll see.

But 400€ for hopes, feels really really strange disturbing even to me. At this rate, we might as well give Scientology a try. Have you heard about their sci-fi vision of the universe? It is no less ambitious than Chris Roberts', and apparently makes you really happy after you've spent enough money on it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 03, 2013, 07:57:47 AM
How much did this mind-blowing experience cost you?

150.

How much have you spent on Hex?


I am the first one to get excited about the dream of future games I might like, and that's why I contributed to this one too. But damn, Star Citizen is evolving (very quickly) into a religion, its fans rabid zealots eager to empty their pockets to the feet of the prophet, who graces them with digital promises.

6,000 new pledges were added yesterday. However I'm not sure where your getting this "zealots" impression from, official forums are mostly civil, Or are you just shocked how many people have pledged?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on September 03, 2013, 08:19:44 AM
But 400€ for hopes, feels really really strange disturbing even to me. At this rate, we might as well give Scientology a try. Have you heard about their sci-fi vision of the universe? It is no less ambitious than Chris Roberts', and apparently makes you really happy after you've spent enough money on it.

(http://i.imgur.com/iJbtCAK.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Dark_MadMax on September 03, 2013, 08:39:30 AM
I am the first one to get excited about the dream of future games I might like, and that's why I contributed to this one too. But damn, Star Citizen is evolving (very quickly) into a religion, its fans rabid zealots eager to empty their pockets to the feet of the prophet, who graces them with digital promises.

We'll see.

But 400€ for hopes, feels really really strange disturbing even to me. At this rate, we might as well give Scientology a try. Have you heard about their sci-fi vision of the universe? It is no less ambitious than Chris Roberts', and apparently makes you really happy after you've spent enough money on it.

Chris Roberts delivers though, even if its a virtual spaceships for exorbitant amount of money .... unlike  some other projects....

he promised to make a space sim  game with multiplayer features in wing commander universe (well pretty much)  with attentions to details and good graphics.  he also actually meets his projects milestones with regular updates  and released modules. You might think space sim is not worth it - its totally fine , most people dont think its worth , however for some its worth the pledge (whether $10 or 1000$) , so I dont get all the hate. or do I? and its just jealousy


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on September 03, 2013, 08:51:19 AM
The only thing I don't like about this project is that the universe and the lore is designed around mirroring the twilight of the roman empire

which, for someone with an education about that timeframe of history, makes all the elements of the universe really oblique and the future progression of the game environment patently obvious. Sol is Rome itself. It will fall.

It will, in fact, be .... sacked by the Vanduuls.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on September 03, 2013, 08:53:50 AM
so I dont get all the hate

For me it's just a game with a scope that seems incredibly difficult to achieve AND we've seen game after game which during development promises large scopes fail to actually deliver on that scope.  I'd pay good money for a game which actually delivers on what this game is promising, I just can't understand why people believe so fervently that this is the one that is going to make good on its promises.

I'm willing to put money into projects.  I did so with Hex, but I did so with Hex because the game it is trying to be is basically already proven.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 03, 2013, 08:59:29 AM
Have you paid attention to all the updates about development? as in, been following along. I personally, and likely others, get a good impression from them.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on September 03, 2013, 09:06:31 AM
40 bucks, I don't have any regrets. I was going to buy it anyways even if it was bad.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on September 03, 2013, 09:11:38 AM
so I dont get all the hate. or do I? and its just jealousy

I knew you weren't bright, but I wasn't aware you were a complete idiot.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on September 03, 2013, 09:20:24 AM
Have you paid attention to all the updates about development? as in, been following along. I personally, and likely others, get a good impression from them.

I've been getting regular updates from a friend who is big into it, watched videos, etc..  My main problem is that I have seen only minimal gameplay in extremely controlled environments.  I know the game is pre-alpha.  I'll be happy to jump on the bandwagon once I see what this thing is going to be like on a moment to moment basis and it looks good.  But the majority of hype I've seen seems based on the assumption that this is the sandbox game we've been waiting for.  I'm simply not convinced yet that it actually is. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 03, 2013, 10:14:52 AM
Yeah, in a couple years or more I might feel like a complete idiot (or yeah, feel free to say that I'm already an idiot, ok :P) because of the amount of money I spent for this game project. You guys are completely right when you talk about "proven" vs. "unproven" models (TCG vs. MMO/Multiplayer space sim), but as you know, the KS (or any derivative form of it) model applied to videogames (but not only them) is pretty much a "leap of faith", which yeah, in the end may result in a collapse of the model itself, at least when applied to this genre, because of plenty broken promises and half-assed realizations.

Meanwhile, let's leave to each one of us the decision on how much this "leap" will cost (personal budget, trust in the developer, passion for the sub-genre, etc.).




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on September 03, 2013, 10:50:15 AM
Lucas, you are not the idiot. That was for DarkMadMax.

Anyway, my only question to you would be "why 400€? What do 400€ get you that you are afraid of missing on in the eventuality that the game turns out good?". It's a honest question, maybe because no one had a chance to test it yet, or because there's no gameplay video, maybe because 400€ is about eight to eighty other games on Steam, maybe because I really am not sure if I understood the business model of Star Citizen and I really don't know what you get with 400$ that the 40$ people won't be able to get just by playing. Seriously, this is not about pledging 10$, 40$, 120$. This is about over 400$, and I am just trying to understand why. Why not happily "leap" while staying in the realm of "reasonable"? What is MrBloodworth missing on with his 150$ that you are instead getting with your 520$ (converted from the 395€ you said you pledged).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 03, 2013, 11:25:51 AM
Yeah, yeah, I know you weren't directing that to me, it was just my own definition while reasoning on the subject :)

Answer to your question (actually, the second part of your question) : absolutely nothing, beside some extra virtual goods that the developers assured anyone will be able to get in-game anyway. The difference, here, is really that I'm just willing to shell to some overseas developers an above average amount of money in order to fund their project, that's it.

And yes, I realize a lot of people might feel it's not "right" or altogether stupid to feel ok about it like I'm doing, but at this point I guess we should just leave it to that person's coscience and personal choices, otherwise it becomes one of those endless and "circular" forum debates (not that I have a problem with it, we're in a internet forum, infact) that bring us toward nothing, really :)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Hoax on September 03, 2013, 11:35:19 AM
I think it may turn out that having founders with all their perks and bonuses is actually much more destructive to the health and the potential reach of a game's community then one might expect. This project should be one of the more interesting illustrations of that.

When it gets really bad is when the wants of the founders is in opposition to something that will help improve the new player experience. That's when a game has real problems on its hands.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 03, 2013, 11:40:49 AM
I don't understand that comment.

There is nothing that backers get that impact new player experience. good or bad. I'm not seeing how anything original backers get would be impacted by, well, anything.

Here is what my 150$ ( Sans golden ticket and Stretch goal stuff, every backer gets stretch stuff ) gets me:

Quote
Starting Money: 5,000 UEC
Lifetime Insurance
Deluxe Green Collector's Box
Spaceship-shaped USB Drive
CD of Game Soundtrack
Glossy Fold-up Star Map
Beta Access
Alpha Access
Hardback Engineering Manual
Squadron 42 Digital Download
Star Citizen Digital Download

Oh, and a freelancer to start with. Lucas up there gets the same things, +3-5 ships ( not sure what he got ). Every item, like the ships are available to be earned in game. There are no Golden bullets.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on September 03, 2013, 11:45:50 AM
I can completely understand why people are doling out cash to the promise this project represents, and I can think of way worse ventures for investing your crowdfunding money, even if I am completely surprised by the sheer amount of $$ people are hurling at future digital spaceship IOU's for a game that isn't made yet.

And as weird as it is that people will hurl cash hand over fist at the rate they are doing, that weirdness is strictly on the fanbase. If the internet at large wants to chuck cash at RSI in huge volumes, I am not going to fault Chris at all for continuing to encourage such an amazing cashflow. TAKE IT. TAKE THEIR MONEY.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 03, 2013, 11:56:16 AM
During the original campaign, I chose the same "Freelancer" tier Bloodworth did (hmm, 125 euros, I think), then I added more stuff along the way. To summarize:

Quote
Starting Money: 5,000 UEC
Lifetime Insurance
Deluxe Green Collector's Box
Spaceship-shaped USB Drive
CD of Game Soundtrack
Glossy Fold-up Star Map
Beta Access
Alpha Access
Hardback Engineering Manual
Squadron 42 Digital Download
Star Citizen Digital Download
----

- Squadron 42 hardback manual
- Origin 315p ship
- Aurora LX ship
- Origin M50 ship
- The Making of Star Citizen (hardback)
- "Shut up and take my money!" ship skin
- Gamescom hangar trophy
- "Centurion" subscription (3 months so far, ongoing)



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 03, 2013, 11:57:54 AM
I upgraded from bounty to Freelancer about 2 months later, i think. I do hold a golden ticket, what ever that thing does.

But yeah, I don't get the comment about things getting changed later, founder pulling weight, all this stuff is like.. Trivial in game items or physical goods.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: KallDrexx on September 03, 2013, 12:01:13 PM
Have you paid attention to all the updates about development? as in, been following along. I personally, and likely others, get a good impression from them.

Honestly, my issue with everything is that they seem to be very focused on pleasing backers and it remains to be seen how much that is distracting them away from the core game.  A LOT of polish had to go into the hangar app that may not really have been necessary at this stage of the development process.  


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Dark_MadMax on September 03, 2013, 12:07:12 PM
For me it's just a game with a scope that seems incredibly difficult to achieve AND we've seen game after game which during development promises large scopes fail to actually deliver on that scope.  I'd pay good money for a game which actually delivers on what this game is promising, I just can't understand why people believe so fervently that this is the one that is going to make good on its promises.

I'm willing to put money into projects.  I did so with Hex, but I did so with Hex because the game it is trying to be is basically already proven.

From what I read  in Chris Roberts interviews the scope is actually  quite in line with funding they  so far achieved. It's not an MMO "with leaving breathing universe in real -time" -its a multiplayer enabled space simulator with central database and instanced  multiplayer battles (similar to world of tanks just with more elaborate transitions between instances )

They already showed they have game engine  and quite a good model design crew ( with all the ships released so far and hangar module). It not a stretch to imagine they will meet their goals  in 2 years with 20 million in funds they already have .Space simulators are not THAT expensive to make

they also have quite a sound business model wtih f2p/cash shop which is proven to work. heck if  i could buy the shares of Chris's company I would buy some right now cause it has potential to be extremely profitable. Unlike the pledges (which is why I dont pledge - if project is successful you just basically gave them funding for free ,and if not you just funded their crazy project for no cost to them)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 03, 2013, 12:19:17 PM
Have you paid attention to all the updates about development? as in, been following along. I personally, and likely others, get a good impression from them.

Honestly, my issue with everything is that they seem to be very focused on pleasing backers and it remains to be seen how much that is distracting them away from the core game.  A LOT of polish had to go into the hangar app that may not really have been necessary at this stage of the development process.  

Chris Roberts talked about this, and has the opposite conclusion. This is part of the development plan, iterate early, get it out, gather feedback. He WANTS feedback and some polish early. The sum of all the modules = Star citizen persistent.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on September 03, 2013, 12:26:30 PM
I see. This game is why no one talked actual trash about us spending so much money on Hex. People were dumping money into an even more ridiculous pipe dream.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on September 03, 2013, 12:36:48 PM
To me the difference about spending on Hex is that TCGs are about spending money. You can spend before the game is out or spend after the game is out, the whole story there IS about spending money and to a degree they are pay to win. So one might question that you should wait before dumping 500$ in an unreleased card game, but the reality is that if the game will be any good that same person will have to spend much more than that on the game anyway, so by betting that Hex will be good, you are being reward with lots of benefits that will (supposedly) help you spend less later.

That said, I spent 0 (zero) on Hex because being a money fueled game I just cannot afford it.

Star Citizen on the other hand is NOT a money fueled game, and this is why I have been asking all this questions about the big pledges. What do they get you? Why do you do it? Etc.

But no, even though both games are unreleased (Hex is admittedly much closer to release so everything is a little less vague and less ambitious) and might be shitty, the advance money shelled out cannot really be compared as Hex is all about purchasing stuff while Star Citizen is not. Or so I thought... heh.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: KallDrexx on September 03, 2013, 01:01:25 PM
Chris Roberts talked about this, and has the opposite conclusion. This is part of the development plan, iterate early, get it out, gather feedback. He WANTS feedback and some polish early. The sum of all the modules = Star citizen persistent.

That's good lip service and all, but just taking a lot of stand-alone modules and plugging them together at the end does not make a good cohesive product.  There is a lot of development, polish and testing time in making sure these "modules" work for the general backers (and supporting issues they find which may not even be applicable to the final product) that takes away from the overall development effort on working out the module interactions.  Furthermore, feedback about how a module works may not   Not to mention you have to now sift through thousands and thousands of intense fanboy feedback to find the useful information from them. 

This model works when you are doing something like a custom website where you constantly need to create small parts of the page and get approval from a single client.  The fact that he is trying to replicate this model to a project as massivly ambitious as what he is trying to accomplish while trying to gather feedback from the general leagues of internet fanboys (who feel entitled since they paid hundreds of dollars to be a fanboy) does not bode well to me.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on September 03, 2013, 01:43:59 PM
The problem I see with this modular approach is that the game doesn't appear to be that modular.

Why is the hangar as separate module? Isn't it just a location in the final game world? I suppose there are some unique things you can do in it that you can't do other places, like customization, but much of the functionality is stuff you'd expect to be present elsewhere in the game as well.

Polishing up one module at a time is very strange to me vs making a rough version of the game then improving it over time. It's like how when you draw a person you don't draw a super detailed hand then draw a super detailed arm, you rough out the whole person first. If a developer was making this game in a more normal way the first version of the hangar could just be a menu.

This is essentially a vertical slice they've called a module, and their plan is to release a bunch of vertical slices and call it a game.

At what point in this process are they going to have enough end to end to sit down, play, and say "hey this is pretty fun and works well as a whole?" It looks to be fairly late. I find it highly likely that they'll do something like ship boarding then get further along and realize that in the context of the game as a whole ship boarding feels extraneous.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 03, 2013, 02:44:06 PM
The hanger was not scheduled to be released. So there is that. Right now the order is:

Quote
Hangar Module
Dogfighting Module
Social / Planetside Module
FPS / Ship Boarding Module
Squadron 42 / Singleplayer Alpha
Persistent Universe Module / Beta
Star Citizen & Squadron 42

Getting the Dog fighting module out early and in the hands of players is a fantastic idea all its own. That's a tremendous amount of testing and feel play in a way that hurts nothing in the end product. Not to mention, they just tested the most of the back-end from patching, authentication and load. To answer your question of when will they sit and play it all KallDrexx, Margalis at every stage.

Found a quote:
Quote
Chris Roberts - as noted in the videos - believes in making shorter, calculated jaunts toward the finish line, rather than sprinting all-out toward the end (see: AGILE/SCRUM). The idea here is that there's still "crunch time," but it's in spread-out intervals that are more survivable: "I'm not saying our method will inherently make us brilliant and everyone else dumb, but [...] instead of having one crazy crunch at the end, it's sort of smaller sprints where there's little crunches, but you're in better shape towards the end."

And some good reading on his process/thoughts.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-04-22-chris-roberts-how-incredible-community-transforms-development


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 03, 2013, 02:56:18 PM
Yes, this game of course aims to be pretty "organic", where the result of a space battle have repercussions on trading routes and planetary commmerce.

The Dev Team will always have the "whole picture" available for internal testing, just like any other dev team. And just like any other dev team, they'll get some things right and other wrong when it comes to the predictability of players' actions and behaviours.

I think they're already applying to an extreme the new crowfunding approach, where you offer something a little more tangible to your playerbase from the beginning (surely more than the weekly/monthly/bi-weekly written updates of other KS projects), 'cause you consider them your "investors" (although we're not investors, of course), so you periodically show them "builds" of your game.

Yeah, this hangar module is just a useless "show off"; the so called "dogfighting" module (expect at the end of 2013) will expose them a lot more; I guess that within a month or so we'll finally start seeing more in-game "pew pew" videos (which supposedly is, you know, the core of the game, after all :P)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 03, 2013, 03:10:58 PM
This development system, in regards to working closely with a community to shape the game. Instead of going Dark for years then SURPRISE! is more in line with what SOE is doing, but much grander.

For those of you who think you are paying attention, did you know every day a developer on the team answers questions from the community? I'll leave up to you to say if they are blowing smoke, I certainly do not see any. I see direct answers daily to the best of their knowledge at the time. I see answers given directly, sometimes over technical, every day. or they say "We do not know yet".

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/categories/ask-a-developer


RE: HEX, I have little interest on yet another Card game where its P2W. Really could care less. If its free when it comes out, perhaps ill play it on my ship while doing a run :) ( Unlikely though )


EDIT: Also, the Caterpillar is sexy!

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/vt2qe6l9x54lnr/source/Cat-Model-Render1.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 03, 2013, 03:30:38 PM
Not sure I dig that "elongated" shape, I prefer my fat Freelancer, for now  :grin:

Oh, by the way, not sure if someone already posted the $19 million stretch goals (18 million is a backer-exclusive star system), but...Player-controlled space stations are coming!

Quote
$19 million

- Know your foe with a Jane’s Fighting Ships style manual free in PDF form to all pledgers.
- Manage Space Stations – Players will compete to own and operate a limited number of space stations across the galaxy.
- RSI Museum will air monthly, with a new game featured each time!

Not sure what this system will entail, especially the "operate" part. I guess we'll hear more soon enough.

EDIT: looks like I'm "not sure" about a lot of things, today (check your grammar, Lucas, sigh :P)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on September 03, 2013, 03:39:57 PM
Why is the hangar as separate module? Isn't it just a location in the final game world?

Hangar module didn't originally exist, but I guess they were looking at where they were in expected development and figured they could throw out a testing ieteration for getting to walk around and in your ships.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 03, 2013, 03:46:14 PM
They are already talking about some changes based on it, namely some of the ships are cramped or views obscured. Also, you guys do know that when anything is released, it just gets patched to your client. "Stand alone" is likely not the right word to use when talking about the modules, they do build on each other.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 03, 2013, 04:15:38 PM
Updated pitch video (about 9' 30"):

http://vimeo.com/73365240

the initial sequence has been polished with added lighting and shadow effects; also, the whole interview with Chris Roberts is entirely new (of course he repeats some of the fundamental goals of the project). We also get a very quick glance of space station exploration (and more gorgeous planetside stations concept art).

More (and shorter) pitch videos (these are updated as well):

PC Power - http://vimeo.com/73365241
The Economy - http://vimeo.com/73360398
Immersion - http://vimeo.com/73360154
Physics - http://vimeo.com/73360153
Crowdfunding - http://vimeo.com/73360152
The Dream - http://vimeo.com/73359926
Citizenship - http://vimeo.com/73359924
Chris Roberts - http://vimeo.com/73359923



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 03, 2013, 05:56:35 PM
Moar hangar module pics:

Getting aboard the Origin 315p:

A couple more views of the 315p:


Another look at the Freelancer:

cargo bay and inside:




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on September 03, 2013, 08:36:21 PM
I love this thread. It has everything that keeps me coming back: people who distill stuff I'm casually interested in into bite size posts and so eager for something new and unique they're willing to pre-pay on the hope even some of their hopes are realized. I'm not being snarky either. I can't connect with the amount of fanboi someone needs in order to invest hundreds of $/€ on a promise. But I'm man enough to admit I'm kinda jealous too. The last time I cared that much I PlayerAuction'd $60 for a million gold so I could buy a house in UO... 13 years ago.

I'm excited for this game. If they give me an advantage for buying a new flightstick... heck, even for letting me use my still-working MS Sidewinder, and it's a polished-enough action-y space sim/RPG, I will give them all of the monies.

I can accept big spenders having some advantage. Time or money, I'll never have as much as those who can spend more of either than I'm willing to commit to virtual whatever. But what I don't want is the Facebook-now-mobile style arcade machine quarters approach designed around 2 minute checkin gaming. That is fine for the casual gamer who are fine with the level of effort put into their free games.

But I left casual behind long before I even knew what "online" was  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on September 03, 2013, 09:30:17 PM
I see. This game is why no one talked actual trash about us spending so much money on Hex. People were dumping money into an even more ridiculous pipe dream.

schild, stop playing children card games, we're GOING TO SPAAAAACE.
In all seriousness, I love games, I play them a lot, but with the modern online game retail discount practices I just can't justify spending more than $50 on a new release. And none of the arguments for it in this thread convinced me one iota.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 06, 2013, 12:52:43 PM
A very short glimpse of the W.I.P. planetside stations, shown during today's "Wingman's Hangar":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06FIAAn2jjs

Go to the 1' 05" mark, it will start shortly after. Looks quite good  :awesome_for_real: (watch in HD, of course)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 11, 2013, 08:35:37 AM
A couple updates:

The official website now have a longer version of Taris Coruscant the planetside station video: it's just a "look and feel" one, devoid of NPCs and basic lightining and almost all furniture:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UaFSd-ezQc

20 million stretch goal:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals

Quote
First person combat on select lawless planets. Don’t just battle on space stations and platforms… take the fight to the ground!

Nothing else is known about this: will it be just a matter of fighting your way to the bar and weapon shop while PKers camp the entrances, or something a little more structured and complex (ground warzones/arenas) ?

The "Voyager Direct" prices have been lowered after the initial public outburst (although the official poll showed the majority basically answered "leave it as it is"). Buggy went from (roughly) $20 to $15; posters from $5 to $1, plus other adjustments.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/voyager-direct

- earlier today, the project surpassed the 250.000 pledgers mark (dunno if it includes KS). Funds raised as I write this: 18,575,559. 24.000 alpha slots left (which means being able to download all the future modules, including the proper alpha & beta tests of both games).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on September 11, 2013, 04:00:03 PM
Adding an FPS as a stretch goal is a pretty good idea.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on September 11, 2013, 04:05:19 PM
I can't really take these promises seriously. A bonus fps in your kickstarted space shooter? It's not going to be good. Like at all. And for the record I'd really love to be wrong here.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 11, 2013, 04:17:28 PM
? Its already built into Crytek engine ( its like, what it does out the box ), and already going to be in game anyway due to boarding and plantside actions. This is likely just an arena type thing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on September 12, 2013, 05:03:41 AM
? Its already built into Crytek engine ( its like, what it does out the box ), and already going to be in game anyway due to boarding and plantside actions. This is likely just an arena type thing.

The engine isn't necessarily the problem. It's the constant scope creep that people should be worried about.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 12, 2013, 05:29:16 AM
? Its already built into Crytek engine ( its like, what it does out the box ), and already going to be in game anyway due to boarding and plantside actions. This is likely just an arena type thing.

The engine isn't necessarily the problem. It's the constant scope creep that people should be worried about.

True, that's the main worry on the official forums as well, no matter that the vast majority of the so called "stretch goals" up to $21 million were planned well in advance. Another thing worth mentioning, is that the ground FPS portion (as well as anything else concerning "ground", including planetside stations) has been outsourced to a company called "Void Alpha".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on September 12, 2013, 12:27:18 PM
One the things I have qualms about is that they're not using the SC crowd-funds entirely for SC-specific goals. For example, they're buying themselves a movie-quality audio production facility and a mocap studio. These do help SC, but to me they feel more like capital investments for the company.

How many indie developers sink the expense of building their own mocap stage rather than rent one for a few days/weeks per project? I've never heard of anyone doing that before.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 12, 2013, 12:35:02 PM
Inside Cloud Imperium Games . Mocap Update . Bryan Brewer  (http://youtu.be/qa1gyzNfy9k)

Completely makes sense to me.

Quote
Unfortunately, motion capture is expensive. Very few studios have their own motion capture rigs: typically, development teams rent out the technology, studio space and talent for a limited amount of time. A day of motion capture costs between $25,000 and $50,000 and provides roughly 200 “moves”; simple gestures, limb movements and so on. More complex shoots which require props, additional actors, finger movements and other factors are significantly more expensive. Still more expensive are shoots that capture audio and facial movements. This expense-to-benefit ration means that there’s a great deal of preparation required for a mocap shoot… and that messing up or deciding you want something more in the game later means another chunk of money.

What we want to do is build our own studio. We want to dedicate an area for mocap and purchase our own mocap system outright. It would cost more than we have currently budgeted for mocap leasing to do this to start… but the result would improve the game significantly. With our own mocap system we could generate cutscenes and moves as we determine they are needed, which will be especially valuable for the Star Citizen live team charged with feeding the game constant content!  It’s even conceivable that we could rent it out when not in use, ultimately funneling more money into Star Citizen’s development!

Lead Animator Bryan Brewer is currently looking at two potential mocap systems for body movement. The first is the Vicon system, which he calls the Ferrari of mocap rigs. We would purchase sixteen of their 2.0 megapixel T20S cameras and sixteen of their 1.0 mexapixel T10S cameras for roughly $230,000. A second option is OptiTrack, the “Porsche” of mocap systems, which would be 24 4.1 megapixel Prime 41 cameras and 2 Prime17 cameras for significantly less: $150,000.

Source (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12979-t)  They went with OptiTrack. by thoes figures, the OptiTrack system cost them as much as 3 sessions. ( Baring any other costs ).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on September 12, 2013, 12:58:44 PM
True, that's the main worry on the official forums as well, no matter that the vast majority of the so called "stretch goals" up to $21 million were planned well in advance. Another thing worth mentioning, is that the ground FPS portion (as well as anything else concerning "ground", including planetside stations) has been outsourced to a company called "Void Alpha".

What, you don't trust the makers of "Frog Bog" to make a great FPS?

The scope creep for the FPS section is an entire other game. Many companies can't make a good FPS using CryEngine even when their game is just supposed to be an FPS, let alone as some side-dish to a totally separate game.

I mean, Eve tried to do a similar FPS as a separate product and it was mediocre. For $20 million Roberts is going to create the most amazing open world multiplayer space sim and an FPS as well? $20 million is a lot for some types of games but not for 2 or 3 AAA games smushed together.

I'll be shocked if this stuff ships on time at reasonable quality.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 12, 2013, 01:03:42 PM
Eve tried to create FPS functionality in an engine that never had any subsystems in it for FPS, ever. An Asynchronous based engine at that. That WAS two different games in every respect. Unless you mean Dust, that was CCP Shanghai and Unreal 3.

Its Behaviour Interactive (http://www.bhvr.com/en/) doing part of the work on the Planetside stuff, not "Void Alpha"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Hoax on September 12, 2013, 04:13:18 PM
This is stupid and the fact that most people who care enough to follow this thread have already invested so much time and money into the game that they can't admit to themselves how stupid it is...

I hate these Kickstarter/founder games just because they make the community even more toxic and full of rabid fanbois than a normal title.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 12, 2013, 05:04:33 PM
Eve tried to create FPS functionality in an engine that never had any subsystems in it for FPS, ever. An Asynchronous based engine at that. That WAS two different games in every respect. Unless you mean Dust, that was CCP Shanghai and Unreal 3.

Its Behaviour Interactive (http://www.bhvr.com/en/) doing part of the work on the Planetside stuff, not "Void Alpha"

I went to the above mentioned website and read this:

http://www.bhvr.com/en/news/2012/12/12/

Basically, it's even more split: BI is doing the "ship boarding shooter experience" (and will probably take care of the ground FPS part as well), while void alpha maybe it's simply building the graphics for the planetside stations (and related interiors):

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13249-Letter-From-The-Chairman-18-Million

"This footage of the Terra spaceport being built by the team at Void Alpha is the first indication of the kind of things you’ll find when you leave your hangar."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 12, 2013, 05:22:47 PM
No one ever said it wasn't ambitious. Also, I get the feeling some think they are making the next battlefield # in addition to a space Sim. Its more likely to be closer to Han and Greedo in a bar. And that's fine by me. There are a ton of assumptions being made, but I'm not seeing it be made by those that have intrust in the game. My last post was nothing more than clarifying some information, clearly that's just fanboisim.

I have no idea what the game will end up being, I have some ideas due to past works, I like what I am seeing and hearing. I just continue to watch, play what they release, and read what they put out. I'm not even trying to convince anyone of anything. But once again, some at F13 just can't have that. I've just been posting news items hoping for some civil discussion.


One of my personal worry is, with ship boarding. There isn't much room on my freelancer for, anything really. Going to be one short pew pew if I get borded, if its even allowed on that size ship. Its a question i submitted to the Wing-mans forum question for tomorrows episode. The likely response is "we don't know yet".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on September 12, 2013, 08:31:32 PM
Eve tried to create FPS functionality in an engine that never had any subsystems in it for FPS, ever. An Asynchronous based engine at that. That WAS two different games in every respect. Unless you mean Dust, that was CCP Shanghai and Unreal 3.

I do in fact mean Dust.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Teleku on September 13, 2013, 04:33:00 AM
Did Eve try to make some other FPS when I wasn't looking?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on September 13, 2013, 05:20:07 AM
What would be neat is if the FPS was integrated as part of the world itself, ie. you seamlessly walk in and strap into your space ship. Boarders attack your cargo ship, take off your seatbelt, open the gun locker and go shoot at em while the ship autopilots towards your destination. Or put on a space suit, roll down your side window and take pot shots with your pistol as the boarding ship approaches.

But it's not going to be that, not in a million years.




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on September 13, 2013, 07:00:36 AM
My take is that this 'FPS stuff' is going to be a upscale (but still small) version of the boarding PvP

One of my personal worry is, with ship boarding. There isn't much room on my freelancer for, anything really. Going to be one short pew pew if I get borded, if its even allowed on that size ship. Its a question i submitted to the Wing-mans forum question for tomorrows episode. The likely response is "we don't know yet".

My understanding is that any ship with a crew count greater than 1 can be boarded (and be used to board). But I also seem to recall seeing somewhere that you could only board ships bigger than (and presumably equal to) yours (by crew count).

The devil of course is in the details as apparently you need to use your tractor beam to move your whole ship so that your docking port connects onto the immobile target ships docking port (a task for which the tractor beam is not designed) to board rather than just punching a hole in the hull anywhere you like.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 13, 2013, 08:40:55 AM
My understanding is that any ship with a crew count greater than 1 can be boarded (and be used to board). But I also seem to recall seeing somewhere that you could only board ships bigger than (and presumably equal to) yours (by crew count).

Yeah, I went looking for answers. This is also my understanding of how it works too. In essence this means anything larger than a freelancer is enabled, but not the freelancer. I think we also have to keep in mind, Ship boarding is supposed to be a difficult thing to initiate, and a rare occurrence. I would also imagine you need a ship with a docking collar as well, the freelancer lacks one.

What would be neat is if the FPS was integrated as part of the world itself, ie. you seamlessly walk in and strap into your space ship. Boarders attack your cargo ship, take off your seatbelt, open the gun locker and go shoot at em while the ship autopilots towards your destination. Or put on a space suit, roll down your side window and take pot shots with your pistol as the boarding ship approaches.

But it's not going to be that, not in a million years.

Not sure why not? Transitions are already seamless between toon and ships, EVA has already been confirmed as a feature, and has already been shown. And there are other games as precedent for this kind of EVA combat. I do fully expect when you are bordered you will get out of your seat and fight. The style or pace of combat is really anyone's guess at this point though.


EDIT:

Had to dig deep on the sites way back machine:

This was the initial outline for boarding
Quote
Boarding Information

As promised, we’d like to share the internal concept for ship-to-ship docking and boarding concept. Please note that this is the very early pitch—some details may change as we balance the game and build out/expand the mechanic!

Boarding Mechanics

The goal is to develop a system where player-to-player boarding is an occasional reward rather than something that becomes the focus of the game; we’re not building Grand Theft Starship. As such, we need a high cost of entry: players must dedicate both significant resources and skill to be able to put themselves in a position to board in the first place.

There are two major limitations on docking: 1) the target ship must be COMPLETELY disabled before it can be boarder and 2) docking requires the attacking player to dedicate credits and slots to several gate technologies, including a docking collar and a tractor beam.

Disabling a target ship is a much more difficult task than it was in Wing Commander, where leech weapons would simply wear down the target. In Star Citizen, the player needs to knock down the enemy ships’ shields and then (without causing a hull breach) pick off the individual thrusters. This is the skill barrier: if you can’t shoot well enough to take apart a ship piece by piece then you can’t board an enemy ship.

Tractor Beams are a dangerous technology. They take up a standard gun slot and are designed for collecting material significantly less massive than their host ship (escaped pilots, cargo pallets, bobbleheads, etc.) As such, there’s a constant danger of overloading when using them to dock, especially with cheaper models. Additionally, they require that the target ship be ABSOLUTELY DISABLED – firing a tractor beam at a ship that still has functional thrusters will overload it and severely damage the attacker.

A docking collar is needed to attach ships together. As with tractor beams, different levels are available which will allow connections to different sizes of ships; boarding something large like a carrier is much easier than something your own size, like a Constellation (disabling another Constellation’s thrusters will require a crack shot, to say the least, and a much more accurate collar.) If the game hits the $4 million mark, collarless external ship combat will be added with pilots in pressure suits wearing EMUs able to battle it out in space; explosive charges would be used to open the targeted ship’s airlock.

The standard VDU will not identify whether or not a ship is completely disabled; it will have a gut feel/skill element to it. Higher software upgrades will provide more in-depth scans of a target that will give you a better assurance that no maneuvering remains in place… for a price.

Also note that docking mechanics do NOT apply to ships with a single crewman or certain smaller bombers; the general rule is that if there’s not room to walk around then only the salvage mechanic can apply to it. You need a crewed ship to board in the first place and you can only board crewed ships which are larger than your own (in crew size.)

Combat

Once a ship has successfully tractored in a target vessel, it will dock at a pre-determined location on the hull (ie, you will always dock at one of the same doors on the Constellation.) There will be a 30-second period where the attacking player cuts open the target’s door. The defender can use that time to set up to fire back. Think an interactive recreation of the opening scene of Star Wars, with the Rebels nervously waiting to defend the corvette from Stormtroopers.

Players will have access to a variety of upgrades to help/hinder boarding operations. Armored space suits, hand scanners, explosives, more powerful (or functionally different) weapons and so on will be available to players on both sides of the equations.

Defending players will have upgrade options that can help put the battle in their favor: a self destruct process, a dead man’s switch, automated miniguns they can position in the cockpit and so on. It’s going to be a challenge to get onboard a targeted ship successfully, one that you’ll need to work with your friends to accomplish.

Finally, the cost to recover a boarded ship will ultimately be high. Since you’ve disabled and otherwise crippled it in battle (and cut into the hull to board) you must conduct repairs in deep space if you wish to keep the hull rather than simply looting it… during which the ship is in danger of being boarded by a third party. Boarding parties should plan to carry an advance repair bot with them or to suffer the difficulty of flying in a depressurized cockpit (limited life support time, less responsive controls.) Finally, only one ship can be flown at once: you will need to work with a partner if you wish to keep a boarded ship and your own craft.

Source (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12777-35-Million-Unlock)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 13, 2013, 09:40:26 AM
Heh, forgot about the boarding mechanics details, especially the possibility of zero-gravity combat with magnetic boots on the hull...This is going to be crazy  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on September 14, 2013, 10:07:56 AM
during this time the ship is at risk of being boarded by a third party, which itself is then at risk of being boarded by a fourth party, which oh it just spirals out into an orgy of permanently fused ships


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on September 14, 2013, 03:39:01 PM
during this time the ship is at risk of being boarded by a third party, which itself is then at risk of being boarded by a fourth party, which oh it just spirals out into an orgy of permanently fused ships job security through constant balance fixes

 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 16, 2013, 10:00:53 PM
19 million reached. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13266-Letter-From-The-Chairman-19-Million)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 17, 2013, 04:20:20 AM
The above linked post is interesting for a variety of reasons:

- Salvage Mechanic: I'm not sure what they're aiming for: keeping in mind the server structure and the prevalent multiplayer/co-op aspect, I think it could mean randomly generated (and instanced) missions both in space and on ground, where you have to take down ships/defeat enemies (and some of the more risky salvage missions might take place in "outlaw" sectors, so that they can put ground PvP in the mix) then do whatever is necessary to access relics/secret data/whatever within the peculiar mechanics boundaries (some of those salvage missions could involve 5/10/20 - man "dungeons", hence creating a more traditional MMO form of endgame?)


- Then:

Quote
Some Citizens have asked if $21 million will mark the end of the funding campaign and the stretch goal unlocks. The answer is no: For a couple of key reasons –

The first is that goal of achieving $20M in development funding will actually be reached approximately at $23 million in funds raised. This is because we display the gross amount of funds received, but out of this we had to pay Kickstarter (approx. 10% of funds raised), Paypal/Credit card providers (approx. 4-5%), we have to reserve the fulfilment costs of the physical goods you have pledged for (over $1M right now) and finally the costs of building and maintaining the RSI site (which is a significant but very worthwhile investment, more so as some of the planned features like “organizations” rolls out).

There are also additional running costs beyond the development to be contemplated – customer support for the growing community, the cost of delivering terabytes of data and longer term hosting servers for the dogfighting and then later the persistent universe itself.

"Lucas, give us MOAR monnie!!"  :why_so_serious: :why_so_serious:

Anyway, they're quite aware of the established "inertia" that this project is building when it comes to crowdfunding, so no reason to stop at the $21 million mark, I guess.

The poll at the end of the post (currently 88% for option "C) show that people want moar and moar stuff, and to hell with the so called "feature creep". Hopefully the Dev Team will know better and deliver any further stretch goal only with the post-launch Live Team.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on September 17, 2013, 05:14:42 AM
Switch from a linear progression of stretch goal "costs" to exponential.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Kageru on September 17, 2013, 06:19:40 AM
Did Eve try to make some other FPS when I wasn't looking?

I suspect it refers to their eventual ambitions for Incarna / Walking in Stations, which the previous videos and some developer hints suggested. But they are so slow to add content, let alone gameplay and possibly fun, that there was a lot of player hostility.

The iterative model for this game sounds good. Helps prevent scope creep because promises are one thing but releases are frequent and public. And the more content you can show the sooner you can start getting some money flowing to keep development funded.

The idea of an Eve type game, iteratively evolving over time, with vaguely competent developers sounds fantastic.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on September 18, 2013, 01:38:00 PM
How pissed is Curt Schilling that Kickstarter wasn't around when he was flushing tens of millions down the shitter?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Kageru on September 18, 2013, 06:10:01 PM

I was actually thinking of exactly that as a counter-example. A very large amount of money, manpower and big dreams vanishes into a big office and is never seen again.

Once you are doing digital releases to your fan-base you don't need to build towards an eventual, perfect, big release. You just get content out, get people to buy in, and then iterate. As long as you keep the game fresh and evolving people will keep following and the depth of the game builds over time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Shannow on September 18, 2013, 06:29:05 PM
Helps if you know something about game design versus, say, throwing a baseball (or being an overly talkative douche bag..:)).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on September 19, 2013, 12:46:52 AM

Once you are doing digital releases to your fan-base you don't need to build towards an eventual, perfect, big release. You just get content out, get people to buy in, and then iterate. As long as you keep the game fresh and evolving people will keep following and the depth of the game builds over time.


Like MechWarrior?

(Sidenote: something autocorrected the word 'Mechwarrior' above to ensure it had a capital W in the middle. Nerds are everywhere, even all up in your autocorrect.)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on September 19, 2013, 02:35:53 AM

Once you are doing digital releases to your fan-base you don't need to build towards an eventual, perfect, big release. You just get content out, get people to buy in, and then iterate. As long as you keep the game fresh and evolving people will keep following and the depth of the game builds over time.


Like MechWarrior?


MechWarrior Online is the perfect example of a company that is completely clueless about how to deal with its customer-fan base, even more so considering it was almost impossible to burn the amount of trust and passion that was coming by default with the MechWarrior license. They started in pole position but forgot to start the engine.

The problem with MechWarrior Online is that they arguably haven't released any new content in a year, and that's because the two biggest major updates are so much work (apparently, for them, according to them) that they have been putting all resources into that and refuse to release that content until it's all done. So while at some point, all of a sudden, big miracle Community Warfare+Interface patch will happen and MWO will probably face some new popularity, they are guilty as of now of NOT releasing nearly enough content for people to buy in and keep the game fresh. The fact that MechWarrior isn't dead yet and still has lots of people playing it, with so little content and features, is a testament of how good the core game is (if you are into that), but PGI seriously proved to be terrible at prioritizing and understanding the fan base. So terrible.

I know you know, I just gave your reference a little bit of context for those who don't follow.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 20, 2013, 12:33:05 PM
Caterpillar ship now available in the Pledge Store...

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/109-drake-interplanetary-caterpillar-lti

...if you have € 180 ($225) to spend (nah) :grin: :why_so_serious:

Quote
Designed for supporting pirate operations, the Caterpillar features a large cargo hold for carrying loot, heavier armor than other freighters in its class and room for five crew able to serve in boarding operations. Despite its heavier armor, the Caterpillar isn’t a bulldog… a succesful operation will require a fighter escort.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on September 20, 2013, 12:39:27 PM
Only true believers allowed on that page.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on September 20, 2013, 01:00:32 PM
I thought you were joking Pennilenko, then I realized I am a faithless gaijin and I m not allowed in the temple during functions.

Jesus Christ Roberts! Also readable as Jesus Christ, Roberts!

:oh_i_see:

 :facepalm:


(Fake edit: I actually can access that page now, but I am not sure if it is because I already spent money on the game or just because you need to be signed in and I wasn't).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 20, 2013, 01:42:04 PM
looks like they're having problems with the servers: I just read that the funding counter went up almost $50K in the last hour  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on September 20, 2013, 04:42:18 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/7xCdyjx.png)

I realize this is beating a dead horse. But good god, 225$ for some pixels. I think even if I had the money I would feel vain spending that instead of donating it to to something ilke Médecins Sans Frontières.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on September 20, 2013, 05:27:58 PM
Think I'll buy Skyrim DLC instead thanks.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on September 20, 2013, 07:43:37 PM
That's a really popular ship despite the price too.  I played some EvE with goonswarm so I'm keeping an eye on the SA thread which has a public spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...hJYmhFSVE#gid=0) (google makes you log in to see google docs though).  SA probably has a higher number of people who would spend crazy money on a virtual ship but still, there are 535 people on the roster and 140 constellations.  It is the most popular ship...

Image for people who don't have google:
(http://i.imgur.com/nZzuC3E.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on September 20, 2013, 07:45:00 PM
sigh


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on September 21, 2013, 04:26:18 AM
I fear the future because this game (or lack thereof) might bury space sims again.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on September 22, 2013, 03:03:45 PM
I fear the future because this game (or lack thereof) might bury space sims again.



The insane heights to which this campaign has gone and the intensity of interest and investment in it by the gaming community means that the outcome will be ... incredibly important to the future of crowdsourcing in general, to say nothing of space sims


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on September 22, 2013, 03:13:07 PM
I predict that Roberts and company will deliver a reasonable, decent, space sim. It will not have all of the features promised. It will make the $40 dollar and under backers happy. It will disappoint the $41 to $75ish backers. Any backer over $75 is going to be a seething ball of nerd rage.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on September 22, 2013, 03:32:40 PM
No you stop that right now. this game is going to be worth as much as it would cost to fill your hangar with every ship, you plebeians.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on September 22, 2013, 08:50:54 PM
I predict that Roberts and company will deliver a reasonable, decent, space sim. It will not have all of the features promised. It will make the $40 dollar and under backers happy. It will disappoint the $41 to $75ish backers. Any backer over $75 is going to be a seething ball of nerd rage.

That's actually an optimistic scenario. A more pessimistic one sees those who spent over $75 as the happy ones and those who spent less unable to keep up.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on September 22, 2013, 09:18:35 PM
This is not going to be important to the future of crowdsourcing at all. Zero, none. It will languish, forgotten. Remembered only be the worst of sci-fi neckbeards.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 23, 2013, 05:17:44 AM
Meanwhile, they're slowly making progress on toilet usage. Real poop as 24M stretch goal?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QAHAKEzKsdo


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Dark_MadMax on September 24, 2013, 06:01:13 AM
I predict that Roberts and company will deliver a reasonable, decent, space sim. It will not have all of the features promised. It will make the $40 dollar and under backers happy. It will disappoint the $41 to $75ish backers. Any backer over $75 is going to be a seething ball of nerd rage.

Kinda doubt .... if you back kickstarter with more than $100 you are either insane fanboy or insanely rich  and  much more often  BOTH.  In fact  they probably already got their money worth in the form of brochures and wild fantasies


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: dusematic on September 24, 2013, 08:16:14 AM
Eh, two video games is $120.  This guy iisn't some complete unknown.  If this is your thing, then I can see it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on September 24, 2013, 12:01:10 PM
Eh, two video games is $120.  This guy iisn't some complete unknown.  If this is your thing, then I can see it.

This sentiment is the reason that I feel that my prediction is reasonable and the likely outcome.  I definitely am not hating on the big spender, I probably would to if I could spend the money.  However I just can't see them hitting some of the big promises with their budget.  I still think we are going to get a decent single player game and probably an at least semi playable multi-player experience.  It is reasonable to assume that from his history and some of the stuff he says that Roberts can at least deliver a good portion of what he is talking about.

Edit: Also, I am tired of doubting and hating on every single thing as if it is the only vogue option for treating new things and ideas.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pezzle on September 24, 2013, 12:12:28 PM
What gets me is the additional buy in prices.  Is there a space demo, or a video of the game actually being played at any length in space?  There is no game but how about another round of expensive additional ships?  What comes next?  $400 fighter wings?  I am leery of this project and the ability to deliver. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on September 24, 2013, 12:16:40 PM
What gets me is the additional buy in prices.  Is there a space demo, or a video of the game actually being played at any length in space?  There is no game but how about another round of expensive additional ships?  What comes next?  $400 fighter wings?  I am leery of this project and the ability to deliver. 

There are a few videos out there of actual flying, but pretty minimal, and not really gameplay.  My worry is the same as yours basically.  I want this game to be everything it says it is going to be, I just have a hard time believing it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on September 24, 2013, 12:18:14 PM
The scary, or maybe good who knows, part is that as soon as they will release a 5 seconds video of the actual game being played they will instantly rack up another 50M or so.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 24, 2013, 12:47:27 PM
Edit: Also, I am tired of doubting and hating on every single thing as if it is the only vogue option for treating new things and ideas.

 :thumbs_up:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on September 24, 2013, 12:52:38 PM
Edit: Also, I am tired of doubting and hating on every single thing as if it is the only vogue option for treating new things and ideas.

 :thumbs_up:

I'm not doubting this because its a new idea.  I'm doubting this because every game that has promised a living breathing sandbox in the last decade has failed to deliver. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 24, 2013, 01:12:43 PM
I think we'll finally get a longer glimpse at dogfighting on the one year anniversary of the crowdfunding campaign (10th October). Plus, if you still haven't , you're still in time to shell out $40 (€32; "digital mercenary" package) and get access to alpha/beta (which also includes the standalone "modules")  and see for yourselves when the dogfighting module comes out (still planned for 2013).  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on September 24, 2013, 04:15:50 PM
Question, because it kinda relates to the house buying nonsense in Shroud of the Avatar:

Are y'all paying into this because of personal game play desires? Or is it because you're hoping for an early land rush that inflates resale value of whatever you're buying?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Merusk on September 24, 2013, 05:00:08 PM
Edit: Also, I am tired of doubting and hating on every single thing as if it is the only vogue option for treating new things and ideas.

 :thumbs_up:

You have to earn respect when all preceding shops in your field have shit the bed or failed to deliver on any of their promises.  This is doubly-so in game development where 'professionals' routinely act like man-children with no sense of scope or ability to deliver on even the least of promises.

It isn't hating on something or acting trendy and vogue to say, "fuck that's a lot of promises that are not being delivered, shown or even outlined beyond a paragraph a hopped-up high school senior could write."  The bigger the promise, the more proof needed, to paraphrase.

Nor is it hating on to say, "fanbois will fund whatever it is that might fill that particular need hole."  Con artists have done that for centuries.

If it were a design document or a conversation or even a pitch with no promise, ok.  When you're actively selling shit to the tune of millions of dollars with no demonstrable product?  Yeah, you're going to get rightfully squeezed.  Put up or shut up.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 24, 2013, 05:36:11 PM
Question, because it kinda relates to the house buying nonsense in Shroud of the Avatar:

Are y'all paying into this because of personal game play desires? Or is it because you're hoping for an early land rush that inflates resale value of whatever you're buying?

I have loved Chris Roberts games since I played the first one, especially Privater and Freelancer. I have been looking for modern rendition of them for decades now. I don't spend my time in games worrying what others have. The description of this game is where I thought freelancer would go, it almost did. So I'm more then willing to spend a few bucks to fund it. Hes got a proven track record.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on September 24, 2013, 05:38:32 PM
I'm going to take the underdog, unpopular position and say that this will be a good*,✝ game.

* Good game wherein the only other similar game to compare against is EvE.
✝ Good game only when compared to other MMOs, which are 90% worthless disasters.

This will be as good as EvE within two years after its launch.  "That's a very low bar you're setting Miasma", yes I agree.  On the other hand EvE is the worst MMO I have ever played and also the only one I have ever purchased three accounts to run concurrently on for years...  It is hard to explain.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on September 24, 2013, 05:40:24 PM
Have they explained how the money is being spent, and what's the timetable, and how well the actual development has stuck to that? I'm far too lazy to search myself.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 24, 2013, 05:42:33 PM
Have they explained how the money is being spent, and what's the timetable, and how well the actual development has stuck to that? I'm far too lazy to search myself.

Yes. But no spreadsheet for you to look at, no. If you pay attention to the updates, and developer posts they do talk about where the money has gone. I linked a while ago some info about the motion capture.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 24, 2013, 06:14:28 PM
Question, because it kinda relates to the house buying nonsense in Shroud of the Avatar:

Are y'all paying into this because of personal game play desires? Or is it because you're hoping for an early land rush that inflates resale value of whatever you're buying?

I echo what Bloodworth posted in relation to your question. I just want to fund the game because I think Chris Roberts will be able to deliver about 90% of what he's promising. Personally, I couldn't care less about having those ships in advance, especially because anyone will eventually be able to earn them in-game; but hey, through them (with the related packages) you're funding the game, so why not? They look pretty  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on September 24, 2013, 06:35:28 PM
I have loved Chris Roberts games since I played the first one, especially Privater and Freelancer. I have been looking for modern rendition of them for decades now. I don't spend my time in games worrying what others have. The description of this game is where I thought freelancer would go, it almost did. So I'm more then willing to spend a few bucks to fund it. Hes got a proven track record.

Cool. I kinda wish I still had any level of faith. But I do like they've raised so much money that if they do decide to go to a publisher, they've got a lot more valuable proof of interest to show for it than some quantitative polling :-)

I've long wanted someone to get take this kind of game seriously. It''s been so long since anyone has. I'm glad people are so willing to fund it. Gives me hope I can reap the rewards of their faith. I'll happily cheer their huge ass ships from my piddly runabout if they helped fund something I love but had too little faith to take a bet on :wink:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 24, 2013, 07:04:45 PM
There is a bit of a misconception going around about the "stretch goals".

The original plan was to raise 2 million using crowd funding, and use the number of people pledged, and money to secure funding to 23 million. Using a publisher, or investors.

Now, additional funding is out. They have no need of a publisher or investors. Its completely funded by pledges ( You are pledging when you "buy" ships, you are not buying ships per say )

However, in both cases, and from day one, the "design doc" has not changed or added anything. I think its the term stretch goals that is the issue. Nothing, at any milestone they have announced, was not originally planed under the first funding plan, well before he even made the original pitch at GDC. Nothing new has been added. All items were already budgeted according to RSI. Obviously details in prices and such can vary and no budget can ever account for everything, including savings.

Now, you could argue that that doc as a whole is ambitious, and you will get no argument from anyone, including RSI. But there is no Feature creep. According to RSI.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on September 24, 2013, 11:42:31 PM
This is not going to be important to the future of crowdsourcing at all. Zero, none.

I genuinely can't see how it wouldn't!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on September 25, 2013, 08:05:28 AM
Sam: this will have no impact on crowdsourcing in general. Maybe it affects the next former space sim developer who tries to sell a decade-old experience to develop a new space sim. But that's only if it targets the very same people inspired by this particular game. :-)

And thanks for the clarification BW.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Dark_MadMax on September 25, 2013, 09:37:18 AM
Eh, two video games is $120.  This guy iisn't some complete unknown.  If this is your thing, then I can see it.

Like I said before giving money on kick starter is essentially funding their projects at your expense. its brilliant buisiness model - all the money they got have no strings attached, if they make any profits its all theirs. if they fail -well tough luck,its still not their money. It makes no sense whatsoever   - unless that end user is actually emotionally invested in it and doesnt care about financial side at all (e.g a fan)

The project looks like it has potential to rake in tons of cash with already solid fan base and actually competent development team. If anything I would be jumping to buy the shares of Roberts company (if it was public) as it is its pretty stupid to give more free money to him so he can potentially make even more profits . this game is not a pipe dream projects - its a business


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on September 25, 2013, 09:52:43 AM
It's a business where everybody wins if it turns out to be good. I happily exchange money for fulfilling digital fun.

If it turns out to be shitty, well, we are the only one losing and that's why I am happy to fund it but I refuse to overfund it *at this stage*, based on nothing but words.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on September 25, 2013, 10:09:05 AM
My problem is that Kickstarter is at its heart 100% exploitative, and the larger a project is, the less likely it is that the people behind it aren't aware of it and using it as leverage.   


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 25, 2013, 11:12:50 AM
Chris Roberts will make a special appearance during today's AMD GPU 14 Product Showcase, which will be livestreamed on Youtube in about 2h50m:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13281-AMD-GPU-14-Product-Showcase-Livestream

Direct link on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHfmM6QYWNM

On the forums, one of the Devs said:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/916393/#Comment_916393

Quote
Let's just say all our offices have been working hard to support this presentation.

Maybe just a new trailer, or finally a glimpse of real gameplay, involving the "baddies" of the SC universe (at least in the single-player campaing), the Vanduul, given that yesterday the event was announced by another newspost containing a couple pieces of Vanduul concept art:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13280-AMD-Livestream-And-Press-Roundup


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on September 25, 2013, 06:49:05 PM
So this seems to be the new video revealed at the AMD thing. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0tLbWv5K60)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on September 25, 2013, 07:13:14 PM
So this seems to be the new video revealed at the AMD thing. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0tLbWv5K60)

Seems to mostly be a remix a previously-released videos?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 25, 2013, 07:31:46 PM
Yeah, it's basically a remix plus the takeoff of the Aurora spaceship and some very brief space footage of it from an "external" cam.

What's more interesting is the fact that during the presentation Roberts said that they will soon (on 10th October) reveal a lot more about the modding options of SC, which should bring a lot of life to the private servers scene.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 26, 2013, 04:45:11 PM
So, today Star Citizen reached the $20 Million pledge level, and what a coincidence: as noted by Chris Roberts in the usual "Letter from the Chairman" post, today also marks the 13th anniversary of the PC release of Wing Commander (26th September 1990).

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13284-Letter-From-The-Chairman-20-Million

Beside the new stretch goal (Facial Capture System technology), the most interesting part is about the "feature creep" concerns, that Roberts directly address:


Quite excited about the FPS part, looks likey they're going to create outsource instanced scenarios, maybe not so unlike the just announced "shiphand" missions of Wildstar (obviously without the typical MMO mechanics, I guess).

Ok, now I can't wait to show you the astonishing fishtank as soon as they patch it in  :grin: (and btw, in the final poll, I voted for Lounge, Couch/Sectional and "Paint the Walls"...yeah, I know you were very curious about it :P)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on September 26, 2013, 08:23:35 PM
So, wait, they're going to launch the game, and then continue to have additional stretch goals for fixes, patches, and expansions?  So is it subscription + stretch goal donations?  Or is it F2P + cash shop + stretch goal donations?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on September 26, 2013, 08:39:25 PM
I'm pretty sure it's them taking every ounce of goodwill and hoping people are so invested they keep paying.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 27, 2013, 06:46:48 AM
No subscription, it's a model akin to GW2, but also with the addition of the single-player (that you can also play multiplayer/co-op) campaign, "Squadron 42". There is also at least one extra SP campaign planned, like in the old Wing Commader games (shorter than the main one), but I think it won't be free once the game goes live. There will be a cash shop as well.

Personally, if the game is successful enough, I think they will just keep donations open even after launch.
---

Nice piece of concept art (planetside station), I hope there will be a in-engine version :)

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/v48kjlj7va8wgr/post_section_header/GossII_Cassel_Landing_02.jpg)

The ships should be the Avenger (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/199-aegis-dynamics-avenger) (left) and the...Hmm, Origin 325a (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/176-origin-325a-fighter) (right)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yegolev on September 27, 2013, 07:16:18 AM
I've kept donations open since my launch, but I don't get many contributions.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 27, 2013, 08:53:10 AM
You need to post a sizzle reel. duh.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 27, 2013, 09:11:02 AM
Star Citizen - A promise  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRAt8tg-8co&feature=youtu.be)

Fan Explanation of why he backed.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 27, 2013, 02:33:23 PM
Wingman's Hangar ep040 . September 27, 2013 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBAb-lska_I&feature=youtu.be)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 30, 2013, 11:10:20 AM
So, one of the latest news post on the official site caused a lot of fuss on the official forums and beyond. It's a clarification about the currently available "game packages" and how they (will) relate to your character in-game. It's quite an important read for anyone interested in the game (or just in the development process) :

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13288-Multiple-Package-Clarification

In short, 1 package = 1 character . You'll have to shell out more money if you want to obtain the "privilege" of having ALTs on the same account. Through the in-game store/cash shop (called "Voyager Direct") they'll eventually let you buy a "basic" character slot, wihout money or ships. There is also the whole "crewmen" aspect that will play a part in all of this (again, read the above mentioned post when you have 2 minutes)
------

It's an evolving situation, at least as far as "clarifications" go, infact Chris Roberts posted a couple follow-up messages (also recommended):

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/936613/#Comment_936613

Then, this one:
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/937387/#Comment_937387


So, cash grab or not?

Well, personally, taking into account the "whole picture" of the project, I don't think so: currently, if you purchase the lowest package ("Digital Scout"), and if you believe in their assessment about the possibility of earning anything else in-game (in due and longer time, of course), you get:

- Full single player game
- Full Star Citizen

In other words, for 30 bucks you purchase two games, both not exactly a short 8 hours experience, so in the end I find it acceptable. The sandbox element is also another thing to keep in mind: it means not necessarily staying behind the so called "leveling" or economic curve (yeah, beside the fact there won't be levels) even if you consider yourself a "competitive" type of player, so you should find some enjoyment for quite some time before shelling additional money through the in-game shop or other external purchases.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on September 30, 2013, 11:56:00 AM
You don't understand:  without alts, you cannot transfer your shit over, TO KEEP IT, when you decide to recycle your character and start a new one from scratch cause you don't like your face or you don't like the last choice you made in your career or whatever.

Also, I thought the quote said $60 from EA for the box (single player game), so the $30 for "two games" would be on top of that, no?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 30, 2013, 12:16:29 PM
One assumes at some point you can just buy alts for your account. All this pertains to people who bought extra pledge packages, excluding add-ons, who want to roll those all into one account.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 30, 2013, 01:19:26 PM
For my situation, at the moment it's a good deal: my current "character" has four ships; through my account page, I can decide to redeem the credits for them (plus other items I purchased) and then proceed to buy other packages/character slots.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: lamaros on September 30, 2013, 11:42:26 PM
This thread scares me a little. It's like being on suicide watch.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on October 01, 2013, 04:22:57 AM
I need to brighten this up somehow with some well-picked gif and memes.
I'm always good with those.
Fu fu fu. :3


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on October 01, 2013, 04:49:52 AM
Shocking twist: The game is monetized as aggressively as possible.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on October 01, 2013, 07:56:18 AM
This game is now officially a textbook definition of putting the cart before the horse. Or it might be that giving Chris Roberts money is the game.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on October 01, 2013, 08:45:20 AM
Or you know, the company just wants to make sure there is a system in place that lets them all keep their jobs...

How dare those sons of bitches try to monetize their labor of love.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on October 01, 2013, 09:01:53 AM
*shrug*

If by alienating people like me they make more money from the ones who are left, then more power to them. But I'm not going to pretend I like this trend of crowd sourcing/exploitation.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on October 01, 2013, 09:14:00 AM
*shrug*

If by alienating people like me they make more money from the ones who are left, then more power to them. But I'm not going to pretend I like this trend of crowd sourcing/exploitation.



I don't see how they are alienating you.  Their monetization plan looks good to me. I don't see any problems with it, and many other box purchase no sub games games appear to have a much higher barrier to entry and are still popular.

From my perspective the only people that are mad about this are people who were planning to game the system for their own benefit or possibly screw over other players. You can't dual box Guild Wars 2 without buying another box, You cant dual box Eve without buying another client (plus you have to pay a second sub). Sure there are games out there that are totally free to play that will let you play two accounts at the same time without paying a dime, unless you know you actually want to play the game, then those games charge you out the ass for every tiny little thing you want from the game.

I'm not trying to go all rabid, because I am not all rabid, however their pay announcements aren't upsetting me because they aren't any different than what I expected. What did you think they were going to do to continue earning money to keep producing the game?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pezzle on October 01, 2013, 09:34:48 AM
Maybe people are bothered that the only functional part of this game is a cash shop.  We might want this to be the next coming of Wing Commander or Freelancer, and it may work out that way eventually.  Right now you have cash shop merchandise you cannot even play with.  People have every right to be wary.   


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 01, 2013, 09:42:16 AM
Then don't pledge? If you are in the camp of "There is no game yet" then do not pledge.

Seriously, I'm not sure what has upset some of you. Likely, none of that last announcement effects you, or would effect you. The coolest part of that article is the system that allows your friends, regardless of where they are, hop into one of your NPC crew to help out and play with you. That's kinda awesome. Everything else is just about pledge's who bought more than one package and want to consolidate.

When you create your original character, you make an alt. AFAIK, this has not changed.

Quote
When you’re happy with how you look, you will exit and return to the UEE recruitment office and officer. You’ll fill in your name on the MobiGlas form and also specify your beneficiary in case of death: this could be a family member, son, daughter, uncle, aunt or someone entirely new (although not another player character).
........
...
When a character finally does shuffle off the mortal coil, the player hasn’t lost what he has really put in the game time to build up – his ship(s), equipment and other assets. These pass to the next of kin / beneficiary. And there is a successor to carry on the family legacy or to avenge the deceased character. (“My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die!”)  This will hopefully create a competition between players to see how much they can achieve in the life span of their current characters. The ones that achieve greatness via killing a Star Citizen unique NPC or taking part in a unique event, like discovering a new jump point or system, are recorded in the Galactapedia and become part of the universe lore and history.
 (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12879-Death-Of-A-Spaceman)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pezzle on October 01, 2013, 09:46:58 AM
Then don't pledge? If you are in the camp of "There is no game yet" then do not pledge.


 :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 01, 2013, 09:53:31 AM
Then don't pledge? If you are in the camp of "There is no game yet" then do not pledge.


 :oh_i_see:

I'm sorry. People seem to forget, the cash shop is ONLY for the Persistent universe. The Cash shop is NOT the pledge packages. That's it. Star citizen will be 60$ at launch, include a single player campaign, the ability to host your own servers, and fully mod-able. If you really want a buggy, then mod it in on your own server.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on October 01, 2013, 10:31:46 AM
Seriously, I'm not sure what has upset some of you.

Personally I come upset from other gaming forums, where SC fans insist on comparing SC with whatever game the forum is dedicated to, ad nauseam.  Apologies if that anger has leaked here, in my posts.  In any case, yeah I'm not pledging and I'm waiting to see if there's a game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 01, 2013, 10:43:53 AM
Seriously, I'm not sure what has upset some of you.

Personally I come upset from other gaming forums, where SC fans insist on comparing SC with whatever game the forum is dedicated to, ad nauseam.  Apologies if that anger has leaked here, in my posts.  In any case, yeah I'm not pledging and I'm waiting to see if there's a game.

I Can't address that, but I can address this:

You don't understand:  without alts, you cannot transfer your shit over, TO KEEP IT, when you decide to recycle your character and start a new one from scratch cause you don't like your face or you don't like the last choice you made in your career or whatever.

Also, I thought the quote said $60 from EA for the box (single player game), so the $30 for "two games" would be on top of that, no?



Quote
Also to be clear when a Character Slot NPC dies, you get to create another one to take his place, much like you would create a successor in the Death of a Spaceman mechanic. If you've designated a Character Slot NPC as your Character's successor, then the Character Slot NPC becomes your player character and you can chose to have your deceased player character slot either go back into your Character Slot pool or turn him / her into a Character Slot NPC (think of it as recruiting a new team member after the death of another) (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/936613/#Comment_936613)

In many ways, it reads as the system that was in The guild 2.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on October 01, 2013, 01:45:01 PM
One of the things I'm trying to understand as this all goes on is that I don't have a sense of what this game's budget is relative to other big budget games made under the typical non-crowdfunded format.

When you come up with a dollar figure for the cost of a game like Halo 3, I'm pretty sure a large percentage of that money didn't represent what the studio itself actually got to use to make the game, and a lot of it represented things eaten by the studio or advertising, and as a result I don't know what total number of millions of dollars was used to make it, or much of any AAA game, really.

I may have heard a figure around somewhere or even here, but I don't recall. And now I get to compare that versus 20 million bucks or so, and I want to get a good sense of if this is a huge budget for a game or not when you aren't dealing with publishers or advertising, and if it gives me a better sense of what amount of their scope creep is sane or feasible, at least according to their pocketbook.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on October 01, 2013, 02:13:01 PM
I think Witcher 2 was around the 20 million level.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 01, 2013, 04:51:21 PM
Interesting four page interview over at Gamasutra, where Chris Roberts talks about crowdfunding and what it meant for the planning stages of SC and onward. He also reflects about his past experiences at Origin (and with EA)

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/200998/chris_roberts_on_star_citizen_.php


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on October 01, 2013, 09:13:34 PM
I'm not trying to go all rabid, because I am not all rabid, however their pay announcements aren't upsetting me because they aren't any different than what I expected. What did you think they were going to do to continue earning money to keep producing the game?

They already collected far more money than they said they needed to make the game. Why do they need to continue "earning" (lol) money? The game isn't even released and it's completely paid for. The way most games work is that you spend money to make the game then you recoup that money in sales - they've recouped all the money they plan to spend already!

As far as expectations - you expected an in-game poster to cost like $5? Literally a single 2D texture? And I thought packs of character skins for $5 was bad. Makes horse armor look like a great bargain.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on October 01, 2013, 09:30:36 PM
One of the things I'm trying to understand as this all goes on is that I don't have a sense of what this game's budget is relative to other big budget games made under the typical non-crowdfunded format.
....
I may have heard a figure around somewhere or even here, but I don't recall. And now I get to compare that versus 20 million bucks or so, and I want to get a good sense of if this is a huge budget for a game or not when you aren't dealing with publishers or advertising, and if it gives me a better sense of what amount of their scope creep is sane or feasible, at least according to their pocketbook.

Development money on a AAA title can run from 20-100 million, with sometimes that same amount or more for marketing.

It depends a lot on the game and the studio. Gears of War is made for relatively cheap, but Epic doesn't factor in the cost of Unreal Engine development into that.

I think $20 million is enough to make a AAA space game - making space look good is a lot easier than making almost anything else look good, given that space is empty and you can lean heavily on textures, lighting and particles without having to model much. I suspect the FPS portions will be lousy as they seem to believe they get a good FPS out of the box with CryEngine. They acknowledge that the FPS needs content but they appear to be underestimating the amount of non-content-modelling work needed to make a good FPS like AI and overall design - you can't just slap new models into CryEngine and call it a day.

Ubisoft spends a lot of money on Assassin's Creed but the last one was still a mess - money doesn't make project management easier or make expanding scope simple to deal with. (GTA Online is falling over right now I believe) Trying to create a AAA single-player Space game and a AAA persistent server-hosted space game and FPS and all that stuff is going to be hard to wrangle, regardless of budget.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: lamaros on October 01, 2013, 11:29:39 PM
As for the 'just dont pledge then' comments: just because I've not gotten ripped off personally doesn't mean I'm a heartless dick who likes watching others get ripped off.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 02, 2013, 09:04:45 AM
They already collected far more money than they said they needed to make the game.

This is incorrect.

Quote
Some Citizens have asked if $21 million will mark the end of the funding campaign and the stretch goal unlocks. The answer is no: For a couple of key reasons –

The first is that the goal of achieving $20M in development funding will actually be reached approximately at $23 million in funds raised. This is because we display the gross amount of funds received, but out of this we had to pay Kickstarter (approx. 10% of funds raised), Paypal/Credit card providers (approx. 4-5%), we have to reserve the fulfilment costs of the physical goods you have pledged for (over $1M right now) and finally the costs of building and maintaining the RSI site (which is a significant but very worthwhile investment, more so as some of the planned features like “organizations” rolls out).

There are also additional running costs beyond the development to be contemplated – customer support for the growing community, the cost of delivering terabytes of data and longer term hosting servers for the dogfighting and then later the persistent universe itself. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13266-Letter-From-The-Chairman-19-Million)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Dark_MadMax on October 02, 2013, 12:37:06 PM
Shocking twist: The game is monetized as aggressively as possible.

which is good thing.... - means they have people with actual brains thinking about business side ahead of time. Seriously everything in this project looks peachy - they got a lot of free $$$ from kickstarter, what they showed so far is quite impressive (for tech demo stage). All that is left is slap together an actual game and a few centrally hosted multiplayer lobbies.... TADA. come one people 3d space sims aint  that hard to make - they been doing them  on 1/100 of SC's budget.  world of tanks I hear making lots of dough and they didnt have free 20 mills 3 years before release


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on October 02, 2013, 03:22:56 PM
yeah AFAIK they're very upfront about how they have created a game from and for the crowdfunding.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on October 02, 2013, 04:09:10 PM
Quote
All that is left is slap together an actual game and a few centrally hosted multiplayer lobbies.... TADA.

  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on October 02, 2013, 04:13:27 PM
All that's left is Step 3 in:

1.  Advertise plans for game.
2.  Get funding.
3.  ? ? ?
4.  Profit!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on October 02, 2013, 05:00:58 PM
A. come one people 3d space sims aint  that hard to make - they been doing them  on 1/100 of SC's budget.  world of tanks I hear making lots of dough and they didnt have free 20 mills 3 years before release

How many of those space sims have the size of the playerbase Roberts' is looking for? And how many other World of Tanks are as successful? Neither is a valid frame of reference. Heck, most of the allure of this project is precisely because it has no good frame of reference in the modern era.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on October 02, 2013, 08:58:55 PM
They already collected far more money than they said they needed to make the game.

This is incorrect.

No, it's quite correct. The original highest stretch goal was 6 million dollars. For 6 million dollars they should have been able to deliver everything promised in the original KS - that's how KS operates.

Saying that you need more because of Kickstarter's cut and fulfillment costs is not how Kickstarter works, those are known costs that are supposed to be factored into goals in the first place - the stretch goal is a gross goal, not a net one. The whole point of a stretch goal is "if we reach this much in pledges we deliver this" not "if we reach this much in pledges we fall 10% short because of the KS cut." So I'm supposed to believe that every KS that comes in exactly on-goal actually falls short?

The fact is they got 3 times the money they asked for.

So let me ask you Bloodworth - when they hit 21 million, which is actually 23-24 million, which I'm sure is somehow actually 25-26 million ("we didn't factor taxes and renting office space into the goals!"), THEN are they going to be done? Or will he write another letter about hidden costs they didn't factor in?

Let's get real, they are going to keep discovering costs and features they didn't plan for into infinity, because it's free money and they aren't going to turn down free money. But that doesn't change the fact that they've far surpassed the amount of money they said they required to make the game.

Quote from: Dark_MadMax
which is good thing.... - means they have people with actual brains thinking about business side ahead of time. Seriously everything in this project looks peachy - they got a lot of free $$$ from kickstarter, what they showed so far is quite impressive (for tech demo stage). All that is left is slap together an actual game and a few centrally hosted multiplayer lobbies.... TADA.

They hit their funding goal about a year ago now (mid-November) and they have made about 5% of the progress required to deliver the full game. They have a cash shop (something with no mechanics) and a basically static room made in CryEngine, along with some bad animations. The business side is not the concern here, no.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 03, 2013, 09:49:23 AM
Quote
His plans started before Double Fine's Broken Age -- then known as Double Fine Adventure -- set a record on Kickstarter. "I'd seen what Minecraft did, and I said, 'It'd be interesting. I could probably get something out for $10 million. It's not the full game I want. And then alpha, sell it at a discount, get people in, and then finish the game off,' which was the big, full $20 million thing I'm talking about."

It was to that end Roberts began to seek investors. But when Double Fine hit it big in 2012, he shifted gears. But his original goal with crowdfunding was not to make money; it was to prove to his investors that his game would appeal to a contemporary audience.

"I was never making a two or three or four million dollar game. I was always making  $15 million game, minimum," Roberts says. "I'd lined up investors, and the crowdfunding was to validate that people still cared about space sims, or even about me, because I'd been gone for 10 years."

As it turns out that, thanks to crowdfunding, he no longer needs investors at all.

"The crowdfunding took off, and I could basically have more features than I wanted in the initial game, so the scope grew to what I'd always wanted it to be if I had an unlimited budget. And that was it."
Source (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/200998/chris_roberts_on_star_citizen_.php)

Oh noz!

As far as continuing to seek funding from players. Who cares, if the game is fun, I hope its funded and expanded for a long time. I do not understand your trying to paint this as a bad thing. They have been very open about all of this, Including what the hanger is (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13214-Letter-From-The-Chairman-The-Hangar-Module), you are not uncovering some grand conspiracy.



As for the "No game play footage". I don't know what you people are talking about.

Star Citizen - Gameplay (GDC 2012)  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92rb-8mYHE0&feature=youtu.be)

Star Citizen Galaxy Map WiP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cLeXj4p03k&feature=youtu.be)

Star Citizen - Early work in progress - AI Combat (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y2cKSUNkVA&feature=youtu.be)

Star Citizen Gameplay Video: Pilot AI: Formations WIP (http://vimeo.com/53321312)





Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on October 03, 2013, 10:56:46 AM
It isn't that there is "no" gameplay footage, it is that there is VERY LITTLE gameplay footage.  Even in the videos you linked there is barely any actual gameplay.  There was a bit of flying around and shooting, that's good - we need to see more of that stuff.  The map looked interesting but there isn't really enough context.  The AI stuff is nice, but isn't gameplay.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on October 03, 2013, 11:19:38 AM
I think there is nothing that could upset Bloodworth or make him suspicious about the direction the game is going. It is awesome because it makes you feel good, it gives you something to look forward to. At the same time it tends to fog your vision.

What's the point to reply to Margalis with some recent statements from Roberts himself? He can say whatever he wants at this point to corroborate his campagin and make things look the way he wants them to look, can't he?

Anyway, you can keep posting all the old-scripted video you want, but it is still a fact that there is nothing that proves this game will be good or simply not plagued by many unfun things. Now, we are all cheering for this to be a blast (seriously, some of us NEED a new Elite/Wing Commander/Freelancer), but there really is not enough authentic evidence as of yet that tells us if this is going to deliver. So at least you could stop trying to convince others that there this is a safe bet, because it isn't. Let us worry and complain, let us question the process and the intentions. Don't try at all costs to convert us to see that Chris Roberts is so virtuous he's unable to lie or immune to greed. Let us be f13, right? You might laugh last, and we'll laugh with you if that is the case.

And just to clarify, of course, do whatever you want. I am just a bit confused by your hardcore white knighting _at this early stage of development_. Game isn't even out, or even remotely close to being out, or close to be in beta, or close to be in alpha... how can it be defended yet?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 03, 2013, 11:50:43 AM
I think there is nothing that could upset Bloodworth or make him suspicious about the direction the game is going. Anyway, you can keep posting all the old-scripted video you want, but it is still a fact that there is nothing that proves this game will be good or simply not plagued by many unfun things. Now, we are all cheering for this to be a blast (seriously, some of us NEED a new Elite/Wing Commander/Freelancer), but there really is not enough authentic evidence as of yet that tells us if this is going to deliver.

That's not true. I have expressed my concerns already, im inline with most people really. Game could be great or shit when it hits the road, I'm out a small acceptable cost.  I just don't understand the hyperbole. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, said that before. But I will correct misinformation. There is enough Evidence, released daily, that this is not a scam as some imply. Weather the game will live up to people expectations is not what some of proposing here. That jury's out. If you feel it will be unfun or not be good, do not pledge. Thats the advice I give everyone. Those of us who wish to fund the chance of a great sandbox game created by someone who practically invited the genre, have pledged. I don't think anyone who has pledged is under the impression this will be robot Jesus to all people. Its a niche title. Even Chris Roberts has said so.

Quote
Anyway, you can keep posting all the old-scripted video you want

None of that was scripted.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on October 03, 2013, 12:35:26 PM
To be fair, I don't see people saying this is an out and out scam.  People are saying he is taking advantage of the system by aggressively monetizing absolutely everything at this point.  That seems true to me.  I personally don't fault him for that though, if people WANT to pay him that much by all means let them.

More common still is the criticism that all in all there isn't a lot known about what it's going to be like to play this game and that pretty much all sandboxes have been let downs.  If someone wants to risk 50 bucks or 100 bucks or whatever on that, it's ultimately up to them.  But you can hardly fault people for saying that spending a lot on this project seems a little crazier even than is normal with alpha funding campaigns.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 03, 2013, 01:10:21 PM
I don't disagree with any of that. Personal choices. But no, some have been trying to posit that, I guess, he should have stopped at 2 million? Because, like, its fair or something? I don't know. A game like this is never done, nor should be. Its a crowded funded game, when the crowded no longer wants it, it will stop being funded.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on October 03, 2013, 02:14:40 PM
As far as continuing to seek funding from players. Who cares, if the game is fun, I hope its funded and expanded for a long time.

The game is not fun, nor does it even exist at all.

I have no problem with people paying for something fun. That's not what is happening here. I'm generally opposed to "founders packs", pricey pre-order packages, lifetime subscriptions and other things designed to extract large amounts of money from people before they can evaluate the quality of the product, because frankly it's a shitty practice and is bad for the industry in the long term.

Whether or not these sorts of schemes are "scams" they are schemes designed to maximize risk and potential massive disappointment for consumers by taking advantage of the fertile imaginations of those consumers, while ensuring that companies that make big promises are well-rewarded even if they create lousy games. The final quality of the product becomes almost irrelevant compared to the quality of the pitch.

I mean, you could put like a $200 starter pack for the shitty Marvel Diablo game - a game that should cost maybe $20. You could buy a lifetime sub for a variety of shitty MMOs. These sorts of moves are often a hedge against internally-projected mediocrity. Charging someone $200 for Smurfberries in a shitty iPhone game or $200 for a spaceship in what turns out to be a mediocre space game is a good way to slowly drive away an audience.

Call me old-fashioned but making a good game then having people who want to play it pay for it is a pretty cool system with a lot of positive attributes like encouraging good work and discouraging bad work.

Quote
Star Citizen - Gameplay (GDC 2012)

This is not gameplay. There is no game and no play. If you brought this to a pitch meeting as a prototype you would be told to get real.

That said, maybe it will be awesome, who knows? It's certainly possible. But asking for vast amounts of money up front for promises is not a good practice IMO. And this has gone far beyond the typical kickstarter - I mean they have a cash shop where you can pay real money for a single texture but your ship can't even leave the ground.

Let me put this another way - if Dead or Alive 6 came out as a cash shop where you could buy swimsuits and put them on mannequins but there was no fighting engine we'd probably all have a good laugh. Because that would be ridiculous.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 03, 2013, 03:03:27 PM
What are you talking about? The controller was in his hand, he was moving the character, climbing into ships, flying the ships shooting the guns. That's not core game play of a space sim?  You are right though, the project is still in its funding phase. To me, you are not "buying" ships, you are funding the game. I know the practices you are talking about, like when never winter online sold Drow. And in that regard I am right there with you, but I think its a personal valuation. I had no intrust, or faith to spend that kind of money. I have said before my reasons for personally backing this project, he has a track record of making some of my most beloved games, and has basically made this title before. Its up to the individual to make the call. If anyone is on the fence, you should likely just wait till launch. It will be 60$. I personally would rather talk about news and info coming out of the development than this, over and over again.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on October 03, 2013, 03:10:34 PM
What are you talking about? The controller was in his hand, he was moving the character, climbing into ships, flying the ships shooting the guns. That's not core game play of a space sim?

His ship sat there in space and rotated occasionally. It's "gameplay" in the same way that a animated gif of Ryu's idling animation is "gameplay."

No game was being played. There was no objective, there was no enemy - there was no game.

The core game play of a space sim is not staying still and rotating, then showing guns firing at nothing from a third-person camera. (Although to be honest that's pretty close to how Wing Commander played)

The last 2 minutes or so was the only part that had anything approaching game play and it looked very rudimentary and/or not operational. It looked like he was flying though a set-piece with little to no meaningful interaction with it.

Quote
I personally would rather talk about news and info coming out of the development than this, over and over again.

Most of the news coming out is about new stretch goals, new funding milestones, the cash shop, changes to the cash shop, damage control on pricing, etc. And the cash shop is development - it's the most functional part of the game right now.

I get what you're saying but they have put the monetization front and center by choice. When I go to rsi.com the first thing I see is another KS project! (The fuck?) The "comm" page is a Kickstarter project, lore shit, multiple packages explanation, more lore shit, funding goals, meet a team member...not much of the communication is about the core game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pezzle on October 03, 2013, 03:11:30 PM
Even worse, we have no mannequins!

I just want a quality spaceship game like Freelancer that I can put on a private server for friends.  Not interested in insurance fraud stuff.  Not interested in the $200 persistent universe cash shop stuff.  Not interested in the FPS.  Not interested in the functional toilets.  

Unfortunately, it is the things I do not want that are getting coverage.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 03, 2013, 03:33:38 PM
Here, I'm just going to pass along some tools to keep track of development.

This, is a Dev tracker that pulls from the Forums. The developers post daily and discuss things with players constantly.

http://partedveil.com/

If you want things more compartmentalized, go here to this section:  Ask a Developer! (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/categories/ask-a-developer) The schedule is posted at the top of the page. They are all on there daily as well.

There is also the twitter, if that's your thing: https://twitter.com/RobertsSpaceInd

Engineering is the section you want for technical aspects. https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering

Also remember, every Friday is wing mans hanger, where they answer questions directly from users, and have a guest developer every week.  (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVct2QDhDrB0sipIorv4skO-XR8bAO7Pp)

I get what you're saying but they have put the monetization front and center by choice. When I go to rsi.com the first thing I see is another KS project! (The fuck?) The "comm" page is a Kickstarter project, lore shit, multiple packages explanation, more lore shit, funding goals, meet a team member...not much of the communication is about the core game.

See above. More info than i have ever seen about a games development is posted by the developers themselves. The stuff on the front page is just that, front page stuff.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on October 03, 2013, 03:42:54 PM
I get what you're saying but they have put the monetization front and center by choice. When I go to rsi.com the first thing I see is another KS project! (The fuck?) The "comm" page is a Kickstarter project, lore shit, multiple packages explanation, more lore shit, funding goals, meet a team member...not much of the communication is about the core game.

Nope. This is incorrect again.

I have the page open in another tab.

The top item is KICKSTARTER: GOLEM ARCANA.

Maybe I'm lying and it's actually "A detailed breakdown of space combat encounter design." If only it were possible for any person to go to the web page and check for themselves!

Quote
The stuff on the front page is just that, front page stuff.

I was under the mistaken impression that things go on the front page because they're considered important and represent things they want players to be aware of and discussing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on October 03, 2013, 03:47:03 PM
This, is a Dev tracker that pulls from the Forums. The developers post daily and discuss things with players constantly.

http://partedveil.com/

From your handy link:

Quote
When we started our characters we were only around 7 or 8 million in funding. So we started building with that in mind. Now that we have far passed anything that we have expected and we are at over 20 million in funding we are revamping our character design and face system.

But Bloodworth, I thought the plan all along was to make a $20 million game? And that even if they didn't raise 20 million through crowdfunding they would raise the rest through investment? So why did they target their character pipeline for a $7 million budget then revamp it when they hit the goal they were planning for from the start?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 03, 2013, 03:48:14 PM
I provided you tools to follow along. Enjoy.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on October 03, 2013, 03:51:14 PM
I provided you tools to follow along. Enjoy.

I asked you a straightforward question.

Is there a handy tool I can use to get you to answer?

Quote from: Bloodworth
The original plan was to raise 2 million using crowd funding, and use the number of people pledged, and money to secure funding to 23 million. Using a publisher, or investors.
...
However, in both cases, and from day one, the "design doc" has not changed or added anything.


Quote from: A developer dude
When we started our characters we were only around 7 or 8 million in funding. So we started building with that in mind. Now that we have far passed anything that we have expected and we are at over 20 million in funding we are revamping our character design and face system.

Hmm...so nothing changed, and they were planning on 23 million all along, and the pipeline changed, because they raised more than they expected, even though it's still less than what they were originally planning on...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 03, 2013, 04:03:58 PM
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13284-Letter-From-The-Chairman-20-Million


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on October 03, 2013, 04:31:04 PM
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13284-Letter-From-The-Chairman-20-Million

Just saying "it's not feature creep" doesn't make it not feature creep.

Not only are they adding new systems they are redoing already implemented ones. That's feature creep.

If they honestly believed they were going to raise $23 million from a publisher they would have budgeted that way from the start. (Let's be real - that was never ever going to happen)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 03, 2013, 04:33:56 PM
Hehe, interesting conversations going on (I already expressed the "why's" I spent that much money, no matter the still aleatory nature of the project), but like I said before, can't wait for the even more interesting ones that will take place in two or three months when the dogfighting module (both PvP and against AI) comes out, even if, just like the hangar, it's going to represent just a single "slice" of the cake.

It will be an unbalanced, laggy triumph, with droves of fans expressing their rage no matter how many times you put on the "reminder: just a pre-pre-alpha!" label. Goood times ahead, yep, you'll get all the gameplay you want (while not being the whole picture)  :)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on October 03, 2013, 04:52:09 PM
I hope this game succeed, space shooters are awesome and an under-represented genre.

That being said Mrbloodworth's posts remind me of Butters from South Park. So innocent and trusting!  :heart:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: lamaros on October 03, 2013, 09:45:01 PM
Quote
Schemes designed to maximize risk and potential massive disappointment for consumers by taking advantage of the fertile imaginations of those consumers, while ensuring that companies that make big promises are well-rewarded even if they create lousy games. The final quality of the product becomes almost irrelevant compared to the quality of the pitch.

In a nutshell.

At least I realise the $500 (What...) I put into Hex I know is as like to be a huge disaster as not. That some are throwing more money into things like this with the idea that it's going to be a great game fait accompli is the worry. Delusional people respond poorly.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 04, 2013, 08:40:46 PM
This is awesome: (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13302-CitizenCon-And-MobiGlas-Concept) ( Check the other screenshot too )

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/16dmsuvkbfjf9r/source/Mobiglas_extras1.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on October 04, 2013, 10:19:06 PM
I like it. :) Reminds me of the classic Privateer.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 05, 2013, 10:35:41 AM
That image invokes some cool thoughts in my head about landing somewhere, going to the bar and scanning the room for criminals. Also feels like a clever way to make the GUI not consume your screen all the time.

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/p6w5aa4c4oqi8r/source/Mobiglas_extras2.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: KallDrexx on October 05, 2013, 12:38:59 PM
This is awesome: (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13302-CitizenCon-And-MobiGlas-Concept) ( Check the other screenshot too )

I wasn't aware concept artwork was considered screenshots.....


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 05, 2013, 12:44:36 PM
My bad.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Hoax on October 07, 2013, 05:49:51 AM
This whole process as it continues to drag on and more shit is sold and more features are added (hella feature creep saying otherwise proves how blinded you are by your investment btw) makes me want to play this game less and less.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: lamaros on October 07, 2013, 07:32:29 PM
If only ideas and concept art and imagination was actually a game...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 08, 2013, 09:49:28 AM
$21 million reached, "Salvage" mechanic is in:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13305-Letter-From-The-Chairman-21-Million

Next stretch goal (22M) is a technology one, the "Facial Capture System":

"Facial Capture System. We’ve researched a technology that uses a series of cameras to capture real heads and import them into the game. This will let the team more easily create a variety of realistic characters. In addition, the technology is mobile enough to allow us to take it on the road and capture select fans during special events! You can learn more about this technology at Infinite-Realities (http://ir-ltd.net/)."
---

As described in the Letter From the Chairman link, the 23 million goal sounds VERY cool, because we'll get quite a different looking ship that will require a different approach when it comes to maneuvers (some little more details about this in the Letter)

Quote
Xi’an Scout Unlocked! The Khartu is the light attack craft of the Xi’An military. Contrary to Human ship design, the Khartu doesn’t have a traditional main thruster, instead featuring an array of maneuvering thrusters on articulated rigs. This design allows for incredible agility, making them the bane of UEE pilots, who bestowed the nickname ‘Quark’ because when all of the thrusters are firing, the ship looks like a spark flying through space. The Xi’an Aopoa corporation also manufactures an export model, the Khartu-al, for sale to human civilians as a dedicated scout/explorer. The export model features the same Xi’an maneuvering rig, but control surfaces modified for human use and a more limited armament. (Designer: Aopoa)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on October 09, 2013, 01:01:28 PM
This whole process as it continues to drag on and more shit is sold and more features are added (hella feature creep saying otherwise proves how blinded you are by your investment btw) makes me want to play this game less and less.


You're in luck! It won't be playable until your grandkids are ready for it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 09, 2013, 05:10:02 PM
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13310-Citizen-Con-2013-Live-Stream

1 year anniversary livestream will start tomorrow (October 10th) at 6.30pm CST; it's expected to last about one hour and unveil some new stuff. They will probably stream on twitch, and directly link it to the game website. Anyway, this should be the channel on Twitch:

http://www.twitch.tv/roberts_space_ind_ch_1

Is your wallet ready?  :raspberry:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on October 10, 2013, 02:01:54 AM
For this? I'll wait for a digital sale when it's playable.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on October 10, 2013, 09:31:14 AM
Heh, releasing the game would be anticlimactic; it appears profitable to just have a 2-4 year string of stretch goals and talking ABOUT the game, then switch to 4 years of stretch goals for version 2.0 or the sequel or whatever, and just keep on going, with the aim to release whatever version is perfect.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on October 10, 2013, 12:30:56 PM
I think smerek dmart already tried that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on October 10, 2013, 02:55:25 PM
Can someone, like Lucas or Bloodworth, explain this to me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QW-LWr5ycNM) and reassure me that Star Citizen REALLY is not turning into Scientology (You know, brain washing video sessions and all that)?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 10, 2013, 03:31:11 PM
That appears to be a test. The stream does not happen for another 3 hours.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 10, 2013, 04:19:24 PM
That appears to be a test. The stream does not happen for another 3 hours.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on October 10, 2013, 05:08:40 PM
 :tinfoil:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 10, 2013, 05:28:45 PM
 :cthulu:

Livestream link on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8HvfFCysYU

Looks like they'll be on air a little earlier (30 minutes as I write this), while the actual "event" will still start half an hour later.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Dark_MadMax on October 11, 2013, 02:29:14 AM
f13 like to hate (no surprise there). Healthy skepticism is one thing  but blind jealousy is negativity is another. This game looks very very promising, more promising than most other things actually . It  appears  good vision, good funding ,good art direction and modellers,  sane goals (their scope is actually not that big and they smart enough so that they are making lobby based game with central database instead of worldly MMO) , good technical side (all the things they revealed so far are good  that is hangar demo and website itself (which is bigger part of the project than many here think))

Now having said all that -this is just a project in development. There is a LOOOONG way to go before it can actually become a finished product and all kind of bad things can derail it. From what I seen I am convinced enough in its success though that if I could I would invest in it. However giving them free money in form of kickstart/buying merchandise is just that- "giving them free money".  These guys are poised to make a boatloads of cash if they succeed. If they dont - well they not losing much either.  However if they succeed that might actually prove that crowdfunding is viable for large projects without direct investors involvment.
except in this case shareholders are not getting anything in return and its done over the internet


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on October 11, 2013, 03:21:41 AM
jealousy

You keep using that word but I don't think it means what you think it means.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on October 11, 2013, 05:03:18 AM
And for another 10 million, we'll bring in Mark Hamill and Kevin Conroy.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 11, 2013, 05:50:10 AM
So, the livestream quality during the event was awful, very choppy, but now you can see the recorded version in all its glory:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5YJDOwil0k

It lasts for 1h 22m.

Highlights:

- The first 10 minutes is basically a recap of the first year;
- Then, they proceed presenting their internal team, split by departments (design, programming, art). Starting roughly at 20:56, you can see a lot of very cool outfit concept art for the various careers. The second "Female Bounty Hounter sketch" is  :drill:

- First look at Gladiator (bomber ship) concept art, now on sale, along with the other (heavy) bomber the Retaliator (shown later in the stream), also on sale 'til monday; the former costs $150 (€120), the latter $250 (€200) ;

- After that, the next several minutes (starting at about 29:08) are dedicated to the various studio partners that cover planetside art, planetside in-engine integration, environments, web infrastructure. We get a glimpse at a lot of planetside locations, internal environments where you'll find the markets, lounges and so on. Looks like they're knee-deep in pouring out a lot of them.

- One of the most interesting part start around 45:05. During the web team presentation, we get a first look at how SC "Organizations" (Guilds) will work outside the game. Then, they actually go in detail during the event, starting at 48:46. It looks AMAZINGLY detailed, with great potential ;

- Then, The Next Great Starship (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/contest/the-next-great-starship) competition (there's a video at the provided link) ;

Quote
Creating ultra-detailed spaceships is the heart of Star Citizen’s development.

From concept to final texturing, a ship can take teams of expert designers months to create
the level of graphical fidelity and detail that have become hallmarks of the Star Citizen universe. Now Chris Roberts and his team of visual designers are looking to the community for the next great team of ship designs.

16 Finalist teams exit one by one until there is one Grand Prize winner honored with the addition of their spaceship into Chris Roberts’ new space epic, Star Citizen. Not to mention a $30,000 cash prize, a swag of other goodies and the first winning ships off the production press for each team members’ Hangar!

Whether or not you participate, subscribe to RSI’s YouTube channel to watch the drama unfold and see who can build Star Citizen’s Next Great Starship.

The weekly webcast show will kick off with sixteen finalist teams at 11am PST on January 31st 2014, which is when the specs will be released to each team for the main challenge; The Next Great Spaceship!

These sixteen teams of finalists will have to conceptualize, design, model, animate and rig their model while submitting their progress for weekly review by a panel of science fiction’s leading concept artists, designers and celebrities, along with the man himself, Chris Roberts.

Each successful challenge, takes you one step closer to the grand prize. Failure means you go ‘home’. In the end, the last two teams will be flown to Los Angeles to compete live in front of the judges and the community on June 8 2014, for the grand prize: $30,000, their ship incorporated into the Star Citizen universe, cool swag, and the title of...

The Next Great Starship.

- Erin Roberts (Chris' brother, who worked with him back at Origin on the Wing Commanders and Privateers and also on Starlancer at Digital Anvil) has joined Cloud Imperium, and will oversee the new team in Manchester, which will primarily engaged in the single-player game, Squadron 42  (1:04:48 - 1:07:30) ;

- Another look at the Hangar Module (1:08:09 - 1:11:50), specifically at the latest iteration (will be patched later today), where we'll be able to try out one of the privateer outfit, take a look at the recently implemented fish tank but, most of all, the Avenger ship, finally in-engine, and it looks VERY sleek (looks like I'll have to wait some more for my Origin M50 :/ ) ;

- Last but not least, Hornet brochure and commercial announced!! The video was shown and, along with the brochure, it will uploaded later today on the website. Beside the currently available Hornet, they're going to sell its variants too. From what I read, the version of the commercial is still not the final one, but it already looks fantastic  :drill:  (1:16:30 - 1:20:06) .

Whew, that should be it :)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 11, 2013, 09:59:40 AM
Youtube shut down the live stream due to them singing "Happy birthday".  :oh_i_see:


The presentation came off to me as more of a stock holder update, which, I guess is appropriate.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Merusk on October 11, 2013, 11:07:53 AM
- First look at Gladiator (bomber ship) concept art, now on sale, along with the other (heavy) bomber the Retaliator (shown later in the stream), also on sale 'til monday; the former costs $150 (€120), the latter $250 (€200) ;

I'm going to be over in this corner.  It'll look like I'm laughing, but I'm really crying that I didn't think of this scam first.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on October 12, 2013, 03:45:30 PM
One hour twenty minute live stream with no gameplay to speak of. But hey, here are new ways you can spend money!

Sounds about right.

Quote
The presentation came off to me as more of a stock holder update, which, I guess is appropriate.

Makes sense because when you "invest" you get stock!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Velorath on October 12, 2013, 05:12:49 PM
So, the livestream quality during the event was awful, very choppy, but now you can see the recorded version in all its glory:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5YJDOwil0k

That shit looks like an Amway meeting.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on October 13, 2013, 11:24:04 AM
That shit looks like an Amway meeting.

But 400€ for hopes, feels really really strange disturbing even to me. At this rate, we might as well give Scientology a try. Have you heard about their sci-fi vision of the universe? It is no less ambitious than Chris Roberts', and apparently makes you feel really happy after you've spent enough money on it.

(http://i.imgur.com/iJbtCAK.jpg)

Almost forgot, "How to fake you are nice and caring". (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFqJHlR7xVQ) Even the lighting is oddly similar. Weird choice for a videogame presentation.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on October 13, 2013, 05:19:13 PM
I'm definitely going to get my money's worth on this game.

Because there's so many people hellbent on investing far more than the game's experience could possibly be worth, just to start with some otherwise perfectly attainable shiny.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 14, 2013, 08:29:27 AM
Some news from the weekend:

$22 Million reached (now halfway to 23, the Xi'an alien flyable ship) :

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13317-22-Million-And-Hangar-Patch-Live
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals

So, here's the 24 Million stretch goal:

Quote
Public Transportation System – Need to get from one place to another but don’t have a starship? We’re building a galactic transportation system. You can travel via transport from system to system in Star Citizen and even ship items (like a ship you need moved to another hangar.) With this stretch goal, we’ll expand this system: star liners, long range transports, charter ships and flyable shuttles!

I think it's going to be a mixture between automated flying paths (the whole "gettin' into the transport" part will be done just for immersion/RPG sake) and manual flying, as hinted by the last part of the sentence ("flyable shuttles"). Regarding ship items, I think that the basic system works in a way that, if you leave stuff around you have to go back and forth between planet/systems in order to recover it (overloaded cargo bay, multiple ships, etc.); with the Public Transportation system, you might be able to move your things around while being in a single place (but, who knows, itmight take real time hours, not unlike some Eve mechanics).

- In other news, the new Hornet brochure, sale and final cut of the commercial video have been moved to next friday in order to polish everything up:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13314-Happy-Birthday-Star-Citizen

Quote
Last night, I showed a preview of the Hornet commercial. I explained that this release wasn’t just coming in hot, it was laser-scorched and burning. In fact, we downloaded the cut of the commercial you saw as I was presenting. I was expecting to release the finished commercial and brochure today, along with a promotion putting Hornet variants on sale. Unfortunately, they just aren’t ready yet. I want the Hornet release to be perfect, with a proper sound mix in the commercial and Hornet variants you can immediately interact with in your hangar. That won’t happen if we rushed to get them out today, so I’m delaying the Hornet release until next Friday. Check back then to learn all about the best dogfighter in the UEE fleet. If you would like to see the unfinished commercial, it will remain available in the recording of last night’s event; an improved version with enhanced audio is coming soon.

New Aurora (SC "entry" ship) variant on sale (along with simple upgrades for anyone who previously purchased another Aurora Model): the 2944 Legionnaire. Video:

http://vimeo.com/76735257

Aurora pledge section:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/aurora


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on October 15, 2013, 07:22:32 AM
Does anyone have a link to the unfinished Hornet video?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 15, 2013, 07:57:39 AM
Does anyone have a link to the unfinished Hornet video?


Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN5qK78xY9Y


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on October 15, 2013, 09:28:32 AM
Does anyone have a link to the unfinished Hornet video?


Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN5qK78xY9Y

Thanks

I can see why people were unhappy - where was the dog fighting?!

Vid can be summed up as 'stupid Aurora pilot is stupid'


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 15, 2013, 10:06:01 AM
Yeah, in terms of production and impact the 300i commercial is the best.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 15, 2013, 10:29:37 AM
I agree, although the latest Aurora LN commercial is very good too: yes, simpler, less atmospheric or luxurious, but very appropriate for a "basic ship", with a nice mix of sound effects, background music and narration.

Regarding the Hornet commercial, yes, the main gripe is how it shows the ship not giving a damn about the Aurora chasing it (umm, but maybe that's the point?), while you would expect some pew pew from what it's being sold as the mainstream fighter  of SC (on the other hand, the recently released "Avenger" will be the first ship we're going to use in the single-player campaign).

Unfortunately, I'm not really sure they're going to change the cinematic at this point: it might just be a matter of adding sound effects, some more lazerz, background music and a bit more narration. But hey, it would be great if they add a more chaotic scene.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 15, 2013, 10:40:30 AM
The direction they are going with shield Visuals is interesting.

(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/19378qbb36fsqgif/ku-medium.gif)

(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1937bxcsxj8qwgif/ku-xlarge.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on October 15, 2013, 11:56:11 AM
I am still not that concerned with the stretch goals and endless crowd funding drive. I feel that it is a pretty safe assumption that I will at least get my 40 bucks worth from what ever game ends up coming out.  I do feel bad for the people with hundreds or thousands invested. I am not sure if any game that ever existed or will ever exist is worth that type if investment with no financial return.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on October 17, 2013, 08:14:43 AM
I think many of them have already rationalized it to themselves knowing that their funding is primarily based around a desire to fund the game well beyond the basic level, as opposed to considering it a worthwhile ingame investment. They'll probably just be generally happy with their LTI.

Of course, there will always be those people who sunk a thousand dollars into the funding for a collection of ships and will have their dissonance fold in on them like a warp in simultaneous four-day creation, causing them to bark at everyone on the forums about how you are educated stupid.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Dark_MadMax on October 17, 2013, 09:52:52 AM
I am still not that concerned with the stretch goals and endless crowd funding drive. I feel that it is a pretty safe assumption that I will at least get my 40 bucks worth from what ever game ends up coming out.  I do feel bad for the people with hundreds or thousands invested. I am not sure if any game that ever existed or will ever exist is worth that type if investment with no financial return.


And thats a very healthy approach. Its like a very very early pre-order :)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on October 17, 2013, 10:13:31 AM
And thats a very healthy approach. Its like a very very early pre-order :)

In the interest of being truthful, I only put in 40 bucks so I could play with the alphas of the single and multi-player. Something is broken in my head that causes me to like playing things that are under development.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 17, 2013, 10:41:06 AM
Tomorrow, if everything goes as planned, CIG (Cloud Imperium Games) will release the Hornet Brochure and commercial, so there will be another spike with the pledges and alpha slots will diminish drastically (currently, there are 8,408, no wait, 8,407...dang, wait, 8,406  :drill: slots left).

If you are interested in signing up for alpha before they run out of places and you still haven't found the courage to do so  :why_so_serious:, this would be the right time: it's unclear what is going to happen when the counter reaches zero: resets to 108?  :grin: , or perhaps they'll activate the "beta slots" one ? or they'll finally reveal what this experiment in mental control crowdfunding is really about :P . Anyway, They might also write up a post on this subject later today or tomorrow, I don't know.

- Like I wrote in a earlier post, Alpha also means access to the standalone "modules" (actually, they consider SC alpha and Squadron 42 alpha, the "proper" products, as modules too, I think) ; testing access is guaranteed, but honestly I don't know if it's guaranteed on first day (they might split the slots up in "waves" for certain, bigger  modules and tests, like the upcoming dogfighting one).

Register on the website here:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/connect ("enlist now")

Then (Store ---> Pledge section):

- If you want to have alpha and standalone modules access (and of course beta and subsequent releases), you need to pledge for the "Digital Mercenary" pack ($40 - €32) :
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/69-digital-mercenary

- If you want access the standalone hangar module, but without being able to get access to any other module or alpha or beta test, you can pledge for the "Digital Scout" pack ( $30 - €24)
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/68-digital-scout

There is also a "Civilian" entry ($10 - €8), but I think you can only visualize it once you are logged in the website. Here's the description:
Quote
Not ready to enter the galaxy just yet, but still want to show your support? The Civilian package gives you access to limited forums and deeper areas of the RSI site. The credit can be upgraded towards a game package should you decide to join Star Citizen!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 17, 2013, 11:27:51 AM
And thats a very healthy approach. Its like a very very early pre-order :)

In the interest of being truthful, I only put in 40 bucks so I could play with the alphas of the single and multi-player. Something is broken in my head that causes me to like playing things that are under development.

I Paid $125.00 (I did an upgrade from a lesser package), so I could start with a two man ship, and because I wanted to back the project. That's the extent of my pledges.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 18, 2013, 03:04:33 AM
23 Million reached. As Roberts previously wrote in a post, this is the rough amount he planned for SC in ordered to be considered "fully funded" by the community, including the KS/Credit Card/Paypal fees the company will have have to dish out:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13324-Letter-From-The-Chairman-23-Million

Quote
Our unlock for this level is the addition of a Xi’an scout plane. The goal here isn’t simply to add an extra ship to the game, but to add a new type of ship which can be expanded upon as we go. Once we’ve put the effort into building an alien experience for the Khartu, we can apply it to other Xi’an ships moving forward. Essentially, the extra funding lets us build an even more immersive universe.

Which, in the (very) distant post-launch future, may hint at the possibility of making the Xi'an (and the other alien species of SC) playable.

24 million is the PTS (Public Transportation System) mentioned in a earlier post; 25 Million:

Quote
Enhanced Alpha – We will use additional funding to build a wider alpha test than we had originally intended for the first phase of Star Citizen’s launch. The initial plan was to first launch servers in North America and then expand to areas such as Europe and Australia to decrease latency in these areas, perfecting the game as we improve the experience around the world. This funding will allow us to invest in a wider infrastructure for our early testing, spinning up remote servers earlier. Hitting this goal will also allow us to increase the number of remaining alpha slots. Extra alpha slots not only means more Star Citizens will travel the ‘verse at launch, but that we will receive more feedback and more stress testing. This in turn will allow us to better balance and enhance the Star Citizen experience!

I guess that answers my earlier doubts about the alpha slots counter  :grin:
------

Two more items:

-  On October 25th, they will start recording music for SC and S42 with a 75-piece orchestra located in the Czech Republic (it was the 6M stretch goal):
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/65877/6-000-000-stretch-goal-orchestral-score-recording-scheduled

- Through the "Ask a Developer" forum section, one of their designer, Pete MacKay, shed some light on how the ship power system (and the related distribution among sub-systems) currently works (you have to be at least registered on the website in order to read that forum section):

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/1084743/#Comment_1084743

Quote
In our game power is a pull system, rather than a push system. Instead of telling the power plant to push more power to shields, you tell the shields to request more power from the power plant. So, power management is more about setting minimums for each device.

For example: Say you're running your shields at 80% to try and minimize your signature as you fly through known pirate space. Meanwhile your power plant is maxed out providing power to the rest of the ship. Suddenly you're attacked so you set your shields to 100%. The shield generator asks the power plant for the extra power, but the power plant cant give it without taking power from some other ship system. The last time you were in port you set a minimum on your thrusters that allow for maximum maneuvering, but your minimum on your weapons system is only half of what you need to operate them at max, so the power plant automatically redirects power from your weapons to your shields, leaving the power flowing to your thrusters untouched. If you still don't have enough power (and you're already at the minimums on all of your other systems, as can happen if you're running an under powered power plant) your shield generator will be starved and will be unable to meet your request. Sorry captain, its given you all shes got!

Hmm, isn't that how power management works in FTL?

Oh, and finally, you can now buy GOLIATH MOUSE PADS  :why_so_serious:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/goliath-mousepads

Full-res of the art:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/xc5zbyt2kpdhir/source/RSI_goliathmousepad1.jpg
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/ryphbgpvujg1hr/product_thumb_in_description/Anvil_goliathmousepad1.jpg
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/fygakrvjj6wtpr/product_thumb_in_description/Origin_goliathmousepad1.jpg


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on October 18, 2013, 07:30:35 AM
To me, the power thing sounds like everyone will try to have a big enough power plant to run everything at 100%, thereby bypassing the whole "request more power" and "pre-programmed minimums" gameplay.  I guess it also depends on whether running 80% shields (or anything) is really worth it, or pointless.  Do the pirates fail to detect you at 80% shields?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on October 18, 2013, 02:44:03 PM
Powerplants are going to probably have huge displacement and mass issues, and probably also significantly impact your signature with the more powerful it is.

Individually I would make it so that there's more or less a general field of 'sweet spot' where increasing powerplant for your weight class beyond a certain point (towards a hypothetical "oh it powers literally everything 100% all of the time") is either too much of a sacrifice for maneuverability and/or signature, or possibly progressively more and more costly beyond the realm of sanity. Or some combination of both.

It would incentivize you to take a powerplant that forces you to juggle your subsystems if you want better performance overall, which is more rewarding in the sense that it's fun and sim-ey and you get to do more as a pilot — as well as that you get a better designed machine out of the deal.

And additionally it allows you to be a chowderhead if you don't wanna juggle power levels, just by buying stock ships for chowderheads that have a huge cheap powerplant in it to do all the basic stuff at once without making you worry your lil' head off about it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 18, 2013, 06:29:56 PM
Hmm, I think I understood, like, 3% of your technical jargon, Samprimary, but it sounds cool  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on October 18, 2013, 08:09:24 PM
Play more EVE?  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 19, 2013, 11:05:56 AM
A few things came out last Friday.

2944 Aurora brochure (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/bos6n1wm4e42dr/source/Aurora-Brochure-2944-V8.pdf)

Also, the "Lore Builder" program was started. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/13327-LORE-BUILDER-RACING)

Quote
Hello and welcome to the first installment of LORE BUILDER, where we pick an unexplored aspect of the Star Citizen lore and develop it with the community’s help.

Not released on Friday, but a few days earlier was "Jump Point: Marine & Rifle WIP" Discusses some design and technical challenges for player models.

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/d8u3imag3j4j5r/source/JumpPoint_01-08_A_Few_Good_Men-V28.jpg)




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on October 21, 2013, 08:05:20 AM
Hanger module hacked https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX48u3SmzCg


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 21, 2013, 08:30:51 AM
Last friday's "Wingman's Hangar" was mainly focused on the single-player campaign, Squadron 42. The team recently organized a few internal focus meetings about it (plus, the newly announced "Foundry 42" team in Manchester will take the head role in producing it), so while a lot of things are still up in the air, more and more stuff is being finalized.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHD5f1p6EOM

The conversation about S42 runs from around the 6:55 mark (with a quick review of the Manchester studio announcement); the actual Q&A session starts at 9:48 and lasts 'til the 30:20 mark.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 22, 2013, 12:16:12 PM
Hornet commercial is now available (just watch it in 1080p) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0gZES2pTWk

DAMN, NOW WE ARE TALKING  :drill: :drill:

And here's the pledge page with all the hornet variants:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/hornet

The Specter  :drill: :drill:

Brochure:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/e89t7l6bef97hr/source/Brochure-Hornet-V8.pdf

 :heart: :heart: :heart: (but no, won't buy any...Hey, why are you laughing?!  :why_so_serious: )

Quote
Greetings Citizens,

We are very excited to premiere the finished Anvil Aerospace Hornet commercial today, as well as the Hornet brochure. For those that caught a sneak peak of the Hornet commercial at the Citizencon event: you haven’t seen anything yet! The civilian version of the UEE’s venerable F7A Hornet, the F7C Hornet is a dedicated dogfighter capable of tangling with mercenaries, pirates, Vanduul and more.

We’re pushing the limits with Star Citizen, and this commercial is our best example yet. It’s rendered 100% in-engine in real time at 4k resolution. We scale everything for the super high resolutions that will be the basis of tomorrow’s gaming experience; our assets are designed with high polycounts instead of having details baked into their textures. That’s a big part of why NVIDIA and AMD have been demoing Star Citizen at 4k! The next generation of CPUs and GPUs will make this kind of experience possible in gameplay, and we are building Star Citizen to be ready. With the Hornet commercial, we wanted to give our backers an early look. If you have a 4k-compatible monitor, select “Original” from the video settings on YouTube (or download the 4k file directly here. ) If you don’t, 1080p is highly recommended.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 22, 2013, 01:05:30 PM
Sexey.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 23, 2013, 03:37:59 AM
Unsurprisingly, the Hornet sale has propelled the funding past $24M, so here's a new Letter from the Chairman:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13334-Letter-From-The-Chairman-24-Million

Quote
Greetings Citizens,

It looks like the Hornet commercial and brochure were a resounding success; the president of Anvil Aerospace should expect a bonus this quarter! In all seriousness, the community is continuing to set funding records and is allowing us to do more with Star Citizen. At $24 million, you’ve unlocked the following stretch goal:

Public Transportation System – Need to get from one place to another but don’t have a starship? We’re building a galactic transportation system. You can travel via transport from system to system in Star Citizen and even ship items (like a ship you need moved to another hangar.) With this stretch goal, we’ll expand this system: star liners, long range transports, charter ships and flyable shuttles!

Pictured here is a monorail car, which will be used by the player to travel from place to place on Terra! A public transportation system may not seem as sexy as a new bomber or a cruiser, but it speaks directly to the goal of making Star Citizen an immersive, world-building experience. Instead of having a simple ‘fast travel’ option like an MMORPG, Star Citizen will feature a living, breathing system to support that gameplay requirement… a system that will be impacted by the economy and player actions in all sorts of exciting ways!

We’re also revealing the $26 million goal, which I think will interest a lot of players. We have become increasingly fascinating with the possibilities for larger capital ships in Star Citizen and would like to dedicate some of the additional funding to expanding their functionality:

Enhanced Capital Ship Systems – In addition to the command and control systems we’ve already outlined, we’re going to expand capital ship functions! Lead a damage control team to fight fires and repair key systems during battle, control internal bulkheads to slow boarders and man a number of consoles, like navigation and engineering, that will make commanding a capital ship feel even more immersive.
Thank you for your continued support. I hope you take as much pride as I do in the fact that you aren’t only bringing back PC games and taking a shot across the bow at big publishers, you’re taking Star Citizen to new frontiers. The team at Cloud Imperium can’t wait to show you what’s next!

Finally, one small change to the Hornet rollout. We’ve had a number of requests from backers eager to purchase the limited edition Super Hornet who will not be able to do so until the end of the month. Federal employees in the United States who are just getting back to work after the recent government shutdown are especially affected. We are grateful for your passion and would like to help however possible. With this in mind, we are going to keep the Super Hornet available an extra week through Monday, November 4th. We hope that helps give all of our existing backers an opportunity to upgrade to the F7C-M!

— Chris Roberts

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/snw0wr1kmvij7r/post/Monorail_train_concept_design_revise_1_.jpg)

The $26M stretch goal sounds like FTL: Star Citizen edition  :drill: :drill:

The current funding goal ($25M) is the Enhanced Alpha:

Quote
Enhanced Alpha – We will use additional funding to build a wider alpha test than we had originally intended for the first phase of Star Citizen’s launch. The initial plan was to first launch servers in North America and then expand to areas such as Europe and Australia to decrease latency in these areas, perfecting the game as we improve the experience around the world. This funding will allow us to invest in a wider infrastructure for our early testing, spinning up remote servers earlier. Hitting this goal will also allow us to increase the number of remaining alpha slots. Extra alpha slots not only means more Star Citizens will travel the ‘verse at launch, but that we will receive more feedback and more stress testing. This in turn will allow us to better balance and enhance the Star Citizen experience!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on October 23, 2013, 07:08:09 AM
I was planning to get a Hornet before the November deadline, now I fear I will end up with 2 (partly because theres no indication the stealth armour can be put on the Super Hornet)

My complaint about this that the new Hornet packages have a different content to the existing Hornet package (Colonel) so you actually need to buy Colonel and then upgrade the ship to get that content (which means you can't get the unique content that comes with the Weekend Warrior package


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on October 23, 2013, 01:07:32 PM
Quote
Lead a damage control team to fight fires and repair key systems during battle, control internal bulkheads to slow boarders and man a number of consoles, like navigation and engineering, that will make commanding a capital ship feel even more immersive.

*Checks off another feature in my fantasy MMG design doc that SC is actually attempting.*


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on October 23, 2013, 06:14:41 PM
I was planning to get a Hornet before the November deadline, now I fear I will end up with 2 (partly because theres no indication the stealth armour can be put on the Super Hornet)

My complaint about this that the new Hornet packages have a different content to the existing Hornet package (Colonel) so you actually need to buy Colonel and then upgrade the ship to get that content (which means you can't get the unique content that comes with the Weekend Warrior package
What is this about?  I just assumed I was good because I bought a Hornet months ago.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: lamaros on October 23, 2013, 07:13:08 PM
Quote
Lead a damage control team to fight fires and repair key systems during battle, control internal bulkheads to slow boarders and man a number of consoles, like navigation and engineering, that will make commanding a capital ship feel even more immersive.

*Checks off another feature in my fantasy MMG design doc that SC is actually attempting.*

You didn't play FTL?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on October 23, 2013, 08:01:17 PM
You didn't play FTL?

I did. If I understand your implication, the difference is that SC is multiplayer, and has 3D ship interiors. So theoretically, you could be dispatching NPC bots to bring inoperative systems back online, while enemy players shoot up the interiors of your ship.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: lamaros on October 23, 2013, 09:06:47 PM
Theoretically this will be the greatest game of all time.

But I'll stick with FTL for now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Hoax on October 23, 2013, 10:51:35 PM
Theoretically this might become a game at some point.

Fixed.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: lamaros on October 23, 2013, 10:56:55 PM
If it's green it's green, no need for a second coat.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on October 23, 2013, 11:47:27 PM
Theoretically this will be the greatest game of all time.

But I'll stick with FTL for now.

I can't wait for player housing and furniture crafting + imports.
Silver cutleries for my table too.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on October 24, 2013, 02:15:15 AM
Silver cutleries for my table too.

And double-quilted paper for my toilet.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on October 24, 2013, 06:48:28 AM
Ikea, in space. Player owned shopping malls take ur family out for shopping today at the milky way!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on October 24, 2013, 07:31:56 AM
I was planning to get a Hornet before the November deadline, now I fear I will end up with 2 (partly because theres no indication the stealth armour can be put on the Super Hornet)

My complaint about this that the new Hornet packages have a different content to the existing Hornet package (Colonel) so you actually need to buy Colonel and then upgrade the ship to get that content (which means you can't get the unique content that comes with the Weekend Warrior package
What is this about?  I just assumed I was good because I bought a Hornet months ago.

The Hornet you have is the stock F7C they introduced 3 variants. Unfortunately the Hornet specs shows for the last year on the ship spec page (which they always said were subject to change) appear to have been for the military F7A version.

Tracker: The AWACS of Star Citizen
Ghost: The Stealth fighter of Star Citizen
Super Hornet: The closest to military spec you can legally buy (has a second seat and comes with the top turret)

You really need to check out the new Hornet PDF for all the details and differences https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/e89t7l6bef97hr/source/Brochure-Hornet-V8.pdf

I had it confirmed yesterday that the new Hornet variant packages do not contain the physical items the existing Hornet package (Colonel) does and only the time-limited Weekend warrior package contains the side arm (if you care about such things) but you can upgrade your existing Hornet relatively cheaply (something like $15 if you want the stealth version).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 24, 2013, 10:04:34 AM
I think you are talking about the original backer packages VS. the new ones.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 24, 2013, 03:39:20 PM
A (just published) FAQ about the recent Hornet sale (you might find it useful, Miasma):

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13340-Hornet-FAQ


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 24, 2013, 05:50:34 PM

Also, the "Lore Builder" program was started. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/13327-LORE-BUILDER-RACING)

Quote
Hello and welcome to the first installment of LORE BUILDER, where we pick an unexplored aspect of the Star Citizen lore and develop it with the community’s help.

The SC community contributed by writing and making up profiles of past Murray Cup notable personalities (winners but not only them):

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/13339-Lore-Builder-Racing-Issue-Two (posted today)

Quote
Again, this was just a sampling of some of the great work you all contributed. We are compiling many of the entries into a master document and will hopefully be able to incorporate them into the vaults of the MCR Museum located in the city of Aydo on Green (Ellis III). There are potentially four hundred and fifty years of Murray Cup winners, so keep them coming.

Next week we’ll share some of the interesting events that occurred in the Murray Cup and start discussing the sport of the future: SataBall.

This is quite a cool collaboration between the developers and the community. From what I understand, Racing will be implemented as a proper (mini)game system;  apparently, same goes with the mysterious "SataBall".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on October 24, 2013, 10:37:34 PM
I guess the super hornet upgrade is limited and ends on monday but the other variants are permanent.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on October 25, 2013, 06:52:09 AM
I guess the super hornet upgrade is limited and ends on monday but the other variants are permanent.

The Super Hornet sale got extended 1 week (Nov 4th) due to US Government employees having only just got back to work


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on October 25, 2013, 08:10:19 AM
Tea party republicans have made many powerful space nerd enemies this day.  I mean they don't have any money to contribute to actual political campaigns since it's all tied up in virtual space ships but I can foresee several vicious reddit threads and tweets in their future!  Woe unto them.

Edit: Also the super hornet upgrade looks pretty good.  Bigger power plant, an extra seat to haul a buddy/prisoner/bounty, limited number of them and it's an actual hull change (a couple meters longer to fit the larger cockpit) so it's unlikely any other hornet could be upgraded to it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on October 25, 2013, 01:12:06 PM
Tea party republicans have made many powerful space nerd enemies this day.  I mean they don't have any money to contribute to actual political campaigns since it's all tied up in virtual space ships but I can foresee several vicious reddit threads and tweets in their future!  Woe unto them.

Could you elaborate?  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on October 25, 2013, 01:32:02 PM
I'm soooo confused... I'm supposed to pay more than a hundred dollars for a virtual ship to a game that doesn't exist yet?

Their price points seem very high. What am I getting exactly for a $150 ship?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on October 25, 2013, 02:14:09 PM
Hope, and fairy dust, and unicorns!


Also a sinking feeling that you are being fleeced.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on October 25, 2013, 02:46:55 PM
There are cheaper ships, the hornet looks like it will be the most powerful dogfighting type ship available so I guess it costs more.  There are also way more expensive ships...

For the money you get the ship (which if it is the limited edition might be very desirable), the single player game, the multiplayer game, all the unlocked rewards, alpha/beta access, the hanger mod you can download now and so on.  Most of us buying a ship now have life time insurance as well so the ship itself will be replaced at no cost once it inevitably gets blown up (the hull only not any gear you put on it).

As a side note I guess there is a way to extend lifetime insurance to others if you already have it on your account.  Something about them sending you the cost in credits and then if you (the person with LTI) buys the ship and then gifts it to them the LTI is still enabled.  You should read a proper description before trying it though.  You can also sign up to get discontinued ships if the people who have already signed up change their minds.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on October 25, 2013, 02:57:03 PM
This is either the most brilliant scam in the history of gaming or the most brilliant scam in the history of gaming.

It can only be one of those.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 25, 2013, 03:17:58 PM
I'm soooo confused... I'm supposed to pay more than a hundred dollars for a virtual ship to a game that doesn't exist yet?

Their price points seem very high. What am I getting exactly for a $150 ship?

Or, you can pay 60$ when it comes out. Cheapest pledge is about 15-30 I think. None of the ship pledges pertain to any personally hosted worlds, only the persistent.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: tazelbain on October 25, 2013, 04:14:35 PM
Too bad there is no auction house otherwise we could track dreams getting crushed in near real-time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on October 25, 2013, 05:45:05 PM
Too bad there is no auction house otherwise we could track dreams getting crushed in near real-time.
They have so many people on waiting lists for some ships, including the most expensive one (http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Idris), that the company is willing to refund your money if you change your mind since they can immediately resell it to the next person in line.

How much does that linked ship cost you ask?  Five thousand dollars.  Of course, since it's a mini carrier that can fit three other ships inside it you'd be crazy to buy it without also buying those additional ships!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on October 25, 2013, 05:49:19 PM
Are there any in game mechanics where a group of people could permanently destroy something like that? Because I will laugh myself sick doing it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on October 25, 2013, 06:02:46 PM
I think anyone who has purchased this stuff with real money has the life time insurance, so they'll get a replacement.  You can destroy all the guns/mods whatever stuff they've equipped on it forever though.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on October 25, 2013, 06:53:26 PM
Anyone who builds one without lifetime insurance can lose it forever yes, that's why some people are crazy enough to buy these now.  I'm sure most of them are EvE pilots who got blown up in a Titan when they were still new.  You can put a dollar amount on losses in EvE since you can buy in game currency for real life money from players and the cost of getting a Titan blown up back then was around ten thousand dollars (that amount would have been spread out over the entire alliance in terms of man hours though).  I don't know what the cost is nowadays but I assume they are cheaper and more plentiful.

I bet there are a lot of titan pilots who would be willing to pay that much for security.  The problem is that Cloud Imperium hasn't really finalized how insurance will work.  They have said you will get your ship hull back, but they have also said it might take a while for the insurance to go through.  Possibly the more expensive the ship the longer it will take to be replaced.  It's all theorycrafting and guessing right now.

So long as I spend less money on this than I have on HEX I'll feel okay about it.  I only have one ship right now, a hornet upgraded to super hornet.  I will probably buy a freelancer plus an upgrade when it comes out and then I'm done.  I'll have a fighty ship and a businessy/hauly ship with both those hulls insured forever and that's all I'll ever need.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on October 25, 2013, 07:29:29 PM
Do they realize that "lifetime insurance" moves the PVP game away from being like EVE (everything can be destroyed) and closer to being like WoW (your tiered gear is soulbound)?  I mean that has game repercussions beyond just what happens to the ships.  For example, can other players activate this "lifetime insurance" thing on their fallen buddies during battle, like a rez ability?  Is there a stretch goal for that?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 25, 2013, 07:55:55 PM
You can insure anything in game with in game currency, just like eve. So. no.

For example, can other players activate this "lifetime insurance" thing on their fallen buddies during battle, like a rez ability?  Is there a stretch goal for that?

No, its tied to the account/ship. In fact I recall reading a while ago. This may not still be true. But if your ship is stolen, the LTI is gone. ( Ship boarding is to be rare and an undertaking in itself )


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on October 25, 2013, 08:22:40 PM
You can insure anything in game with in game currency, just like eve. So. no.

For example, can other players activate this "lifetime insurance" thing on their fallen buddies during battle, like a rez ability?  Is there a stretch goal for that?

No, its tied to the account/ship. In fact I recall reading a while ago. This may not still be true. But if your ship is stolen, the LTI is gone. ( Ship boarding is to be rare and an undertaking in itself )

I can't wait until someone's $5000 ship is boarded and stolen.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Threash on October 25, 2013, 09:14:44 PM
There is going to be guilds dedicated entirely to doing that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 25, 2013, 09:35:40 PM
wasn't there a spreadsheet showing the goons had like, 4 of them?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on October 25, 2013, 11:46:28 PM
Four what, Idris carriers?

I checked the spreadsheet and while you can only get an Idris now with the $5000 pledge package there must have been a sale or something previous where the base model was going for a mere $1000.

The goon roster currently has 29 of them.  The total goon fleet dollar value is over $200,000 right now.  That's probably peanuts compared to the EvE fleet value but then the game isn't released yet.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 26, 2013, 12:11:21 AM
Well then.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Xuri on October 26, 2013, 04:27:40 AM
So, yeah. Turns out a black market already exists for available-to-early-backer-only digital goods.  :awesome_for_real:
Quote
Originally launched a year ago, Cloud Imperium Games’ Star Citizen went on to break crowdfunding records and continues to pull in huge amounts of money from an avid fanbase. It remains to be see whether Chris Roberts and his team can make everyone happy, but right now the operation is a wonder to behold.

However, behind the developers' ongoing crowdfunding campaign to support development, a player operated market emerged that sells in-game goods for real money. This market has aimed at circumventing certain limits while enriching the dealers both in real world and virtual currency. These dealers are capitalizing on demand for items and features removed from the regular store and are thus unavailable to new backers who arrived late to the community.
...
http://themittani.com/features/star-citizens-grey-market


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on October 26, 2013, 06:26:51 AM
EDITED: Nevermind.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on October 26, 2013, 09:55:07 AM
This whole thing is the bitcoin of MMOs.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on October 26, 2013, 01:17:21 PM
I still totally just want to purchase the game as a doodads edition. Where I get all the physical shit they send the people who spent thousands of dollars on their fantasy future potential digital pretend spaceship.

Like, the card, the little models, the fold-out felt map of the game world, the game manual I have to have for when the dockmaster on terra asks me "What be the third word on the sixteenth page of thy instruction booklet?"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on October 26, 2013, 01:20:58 PM
But I start with literally zero in-game advantage or leather seating or anything. Just the doodads.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on October 26, 2013, 01:47:40 PM
So, yeah. Turns out a black market already exists for available-to-early-backer-only digital goods.  :awesome_for_real:
Quote
Originally launched a year ago, Cloud Imperium Games’ Star Citizen went on to break crowdfunding records and continues to pull in huge amounts of money from an avid fanbase. It remains to be see whether Chris Roberts and his team can make everyone happy, but right now the operation is a wonder to behold.

However, behind the developers' ongoing crowdfunding campaign to support development, a player operated market emerged that sells in-game goods for real money. This market has aimed at circumventing certain limits while enriching the dealers both in real world and virtual currency. These dealers are capitalizing on demand for items and features removed from the regular store and are thus unavailable to new backers who arrived late to the community.
...
http://themittani.com/features/star-citizens-grey-market

Next step space prostitution?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on October 26, 2013, 02:07:51 PM
Can we just move this whole thread to the Eve subforum which is what that will become in 18 years when this "game" actually comes out and leaves everyone heartbroken?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 27, 2013, 04:22:40 PM
It's that time again: $25M funding reached, new letter from Uncle Roberts:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13345-Letter-From-The-Chairman-25-Million

So, "Enhanced Alpha" goal reached (along with 50K new alpha slots), FTL: Star Citizen edition on the horizon and the following new objective at $27M:

Quote
Banu Merchantman Unlocked – Banu traders are renowed for their merchant prowess, traveling the spacelanes and trading with everyone from humans to the Vanduul! Their sturdy, dedicated trading ships are prized beyond all other transports, sometimes passing from generation to generation of Banu. At $23 million we dedicated additional resources to making Xi’An spacecraft a unique experience. At $27 million, we will expand that same thinking to the Banu! Starting with the merchant ship, the design team will expand Banu technology to offer players a completely different way of experiencing their universe.

Then, the closure mentions (again) the so called "feature creep" issue:

Quote
Even though we’ve fully funded the base game, every extra dollar helps to make the experience better. The content we talk about in these stretch goals isn’t “feature creep”; it’s elements we’ve been building and planning that will be all that more impressive with additional resources. In essence, you’re putting things we’ve already discussed for the future into development now. The extra funding means we’re secure in assigning resources to go ahead and begin developing that richer content we had initially planned to fund through the game’s success upon release.

Thank you for your continued support of and trust in project. You have empowered the team to make Star Citizen something truly special… the Best Damn Space Sim Ever!

— Chris Roberts

For those wondering, here's a list of the known species of the Star Citizen/S42 universe:

http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Races

Yeah, they still have to unveil the Kr'Thak (sounds kinda familiar, uh? ;) and the Tevarin, although the latter were almost totally wiped out by the Humans.
----

The lore and backstory of SC/S42 has been told, for the most part, through a "time capsule" series which served as a "lead up" to the announcement of the project back in 2012. Here's it, if you are interested:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link?channel=&series=time-capsule&type=&text=&sort=publish_old

Read the first entry (2075) and proceed downward.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on October 27, 2013, 04:42:16 PM
Sooooo how many hundreds does it cost to get in on this Banu Merchantman business?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 28, 2013, 07:49:58 AM
$60, if you wait for launch.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 04, 2013, 10:10:48 PM
Based on an email from the SA thread it sounds as though every limited ship other than the IdrisM and Scythe will be getting a one day sale before the 26th lifetime insurance date passes, they will be releasing a schedule of when and what.

They have also been more forceful in stating that this sperging over LTI isn't worth it and that the only reason to buy ships now is to support the game and avoid grinding out some space money for a few dozen hours to buy the ships later.  LTI is not going to be that significant a cost savings and buying ships now just saves you some ingame time.

I have my Super Hornet fighter and my Freelancer serious business ship so I am mostly done, I will buy a variant upgrade for my freelancer once they come out and that's it.

Edit: Typo.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 05, 2013, 09:10:09 AM
They have also been more forceful in stating that this sperging over LTI isn't worth it and that the only reason to buy ships now is to support the game and avoid grinding out some space money for a few dozen hours to buy the ships later.  LTI is not going to be that significant a cost savings and buying ships now just saves you some ingame time.

That's how its always been really.

The best deal is the 30$ package, which saves you some real money come launch.



Also, $26 Million hit. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13358-Letter-From-The-Chairman-26-Million)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Dark_MadMax on November 05, 2013, 09:15:57 AM

Also, $26 Million hit. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13358-Letter-From-The-Chairman-26-Million)
curiouser and curiouser


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 05, 2013, 10:10:26 AM
There's just something a little bit magical about this. Not like, good magical. Like when you did a sort of a daemonic summoning and didn't think out the radius of your warding circle quite right.

A lot of these people who are going nuts and are sinking multiple hundreds of dollars into the game are impressing me with their ability to theorycraft miles of text and gooniness over the sparsest possible details of a game that is not out yet. I'm sure that roberts is legitimately glad that he's getting all this money and the studio has totally gone down the right path by successfully monetizing the promise of future fantasy starship, but reading the forums might already just scare them a little bit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on November 05, 2013, 12:53:22 PM
There's just something a little bit magical about this. Not like, good magical. Like when you did a sort of a daemonic summoning and didn't think out the radius of your warding circle quite right.

Totes, the last time I tried summoning it resulted in D3 greater daemons and 4D6 lesser daemons wreaking havoc all over the place.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 05, 2013, 01:12:41 PM
Like really I have already seen multiple instances where people who have made multi hundred dollar spaceship purchases are already FREAKING OUT about their investment by joining into colon-cleansingly pervasive theorycrafting vortex holes that indicates a.. I don't even know how to describe it, I'll call it, conceptually, a "possible potential implemented future-retroactive nerf" of their ship that hasn't been made yet for a game that hasn't been made yet that neither they nor anyone else has really flown yet.

As a specific example someone will do a 'visual analysis' of the size of ship engines in some promo pictures and do some sort of vague measurement and say it indicates that the ship must have had its engine specs toned down. And lo shall come a cry of consternation and concern.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on November 05, 2013, 02:47:53 PM
I looked at the Hornet in the store and came away confused. There's a "Ghost" and a "Specter" variant, which both appear the same and have the same description, but one costs $15 more. Likewise there's a "Tracker" and a "SWAC" which look the same, have the same description, and one costs $15 more than the other for no apparent reason.

What.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on November 05, 2013, 02:58:43 PM
First thing learned from EVE is anything that's promised to be "rare" or "limited edition" or even "different" will be valued at millions by the players, just because.  There are ships in EVE that are worse* than the "common" variant that are way more expensive.  Most of the time, though, it's just a different paint job, or maybe a camouflage overlay.

Edit:  *I think the situation was the common variant was buffed by CCP as part of their "tiericide" effort but the repainted limited editions were not.  Not sure if that's still the case.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Dark_MadMax on November 05, 2013, 04:58:41 PM
monetizing the promise of future fantasy starship

This is imho the core. Roberts knowingly or not hit the goldmine right there.  The promise of the fantasy is a powerful thing , sometimes much more so than a finished product (after all fantasy is perfect and no real life thing is)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on November 06, 2013, 12:56:09 AM
It's also the lack of any competition, the lack of any pending competition, the lack of attention this kind of game has gotten in a very long time, and the audience for such a game that has a long memory who also have a lifestyle that can afford frivolous hope-based investment.

Right place, right time, right message, right audience.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on November 06, 2013, 12:58:47 AM
Cyanide shd do this for Blood Bowl 2.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 06, 2013, 07:02:52 AM
I looked at the Hornet in the store and came away confused. There's a "Ghost" and a "Specter" variant, which both appear the same and have the same description, but one costs $15 more. Likewise there's a "Tracker" and a "SWAC" which look the same, have the same description, and one costs $15 more than the other for no apparent reason.

What.
Hmm, that is confusing.  Buried underneath a graphic you have to click on for some reason it tells you what is contained in each.  Basically the cheaper one is just the ship itself while the one for $15 more is an actual package that gives you alpha/beta, some in game credits, starts to unlock the pledgre rewards, insurance and so on.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on November 06, 2013, 08:17:43 AM
I looked at the Hornet in the store and came away confused. There's a "Ghost" and a "Specter" variant, which both appear the same and have the same description, but one costs $15 more. Likewise there's a "Tracker" and a "SWAC" which look the same, have the same description, and one costs $15 more than the other for no apparent reason.

What.
Hmm, that is confusing.  Buried underneath a graphic you have to click on for some reason it tells you what is contained in each.  Basically the cheaper one is just the ship itself while the one for $15 more is an actual package that gives you alpha/beta, some in game credits, starts to unlock the pledgre rewards, insurance and so on.

There are 4 Hornet versions

Basic - has a cargo bay!
Ghost - Stealth version with low emission systems and stealth armour
Tracker - AWACS version with uber scanning shiney
Super - 2 man, highest legal civillian spec (comes with the top turret as standard for example) - removed from sale last week.

What you're seeing with the pricing is the various ways you can purchase the ship

For people without a Hornet there are the Colonel, Spectre and SWAC packages which include the ship and the game
For people who already purchased a Colonel package there are the upgrades from the basic Hornet to either the Ghost or Tracker

The price differences between those options are to do with the loadout you get on each Hornet (you need to look at the Hornet PDF to get that level of detail) but other than that the packages will be the same


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 07, 2013, 11:41:18 AM
Stunning.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Speedy Cerviche on November 07, 2013, 12:38:20 PM
umm is that a painting or ingame footage?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 07, 2013, 12:58:29 PM
Concept painting by Elijah McNeal (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/1248288/#Comment_1248288), who I am quickly becoming a fan of.

http://elijah.cghub.com/



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yegolev on November 07, 2013, 01:04:50 PM
Are those in game pictures?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 07, 2013, 01:08:16 PM
Concept painting

This gentleman, who also works for the project, is also awesome.

http://itchynick.cghub.com/

Some others by http://hazzard65.cghub.com/



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Hoax on November 07, 2013, 01:40:08 PM
Are those in game pictures?

No but I bet they will sell them to you. Or better yet make a stretch goal where they will create more concept art, which they will then sell to you.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 07, 2013, 02:54:37 PM
Are those in game pictures?

No but I bet they will sell them to you. Or better yet make a stretch goal where they will create more concept art, which they will then sell to you.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/voyager-direct/hangar-posters


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 07, 2013, 02:58:43 PM
Yep, Please try to keep up.  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yegolev on November 07, 2013, 03:54:45 PM
Nah, I'm good. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on November 07, 2013, 03:54:53 PM
Cyanide shd do this for Blood Bowl 2.
Mantic should do this for Dreadball and take a giant dump on GW/Cyanide.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 07, 2013, 04:22:46 PM
$26MM has to be a record for not having to deliver anything.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 07, 2013, 04:27:31 PM
$26MM has to be a record for not having to deliver anything.
Not even close. (http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/11/07/twitter-shares-surge-in-a-smooth-start-to-trading/?hp)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 07, 2013, 04:28:22 PM
Twitter is less of a scam than fake spaceships.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on November 07, 2013, 06:53:31 PM
When Chris Roberts tears off his mask to reveal he is actually Brad McQuaid, the Internet will break.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 08, 2013, 02:16:10 PM
While we wait for the unmasking, here's a new interview with him over at "Rock,Paper,Shotgun" (more details about S42, dogfighting module, development schedule):

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/11/08/chris-roberts-details-squadron-42-takes-on-doubters/

About the dogfighting module:

Quote
The dogfighting module, for instance, will launch at the end of 2013 no matter what, but it might not include multiplayer until early next year. Reason being, RSI has the option of either running CryEngine’s stock multiplayer code or implementing Star Citizen’s full MMO-ready backend. At the moment, Roberts is leaning toward the latter, as it’ll allow stress testing pretty much from the get-go. So long, launch day server troubles – at least, in theory.

“That’s the decision that, if you go for the proper system, it’s much better for the game long-term,” he said. “But that means people aren’t playing multiplayer dogfights by Christmas. They’ll be able to play against AI or fly their ships around, but I think that may be the choice that I make. It’s better for the final game.”

Good enough, at least they will show that a portion of the game actually exists :P

Plus, Gamasutra just wrote up an overview of Roberts' presentation at GDC Next:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/204192/Beyond_crowdfunding_Chris_Roberts_urges_you_to_turn_backers_to_fans.php

(EDIT: LOL, just read my title for the first time...Err, thanks, I suppose  :grin: )


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on November 09, 2013, 01:07:50 AM
If only other companies had thought to test their network code before launch day, they too could have avoided launch day issues.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 09, 2013, 04:55:40 PM
If you guys were going to rank the ships, which ones are your aesthetic favorites and least favorites? I'm noting this extreme variety in what the ships look like, and some are ugly as sin (like the basic one) and others show promise.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 09, 2013, 07:49:38 PM
That's interesting, I don't think there is enough variety, they all look sort of the same to me.  They're pretty good but I haven't seen one that has really caught my eye yet.  Most people think the 300i is the best looking.  EvE had four different factions and each had its own style like utilitarian, graceful, asymetrical junkers, curvy.

They are hinting that two of the alien ships will be released on the 26th, hopefully those have completely new styles.  One might be a vertical focused ship.

Giant image of some EvE ships. (http://www.operationtrooplift.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/54378__EVE-ships-subcap-Tyrannis.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 10, 2013, 04:46:23 PM
I like the bulky MISC Freelancer, the aggressiveness (well, mostly due to its red/black combination) of the Origin 325a and, I'm very curious about the Origin M50 which, as far as I understand, it's undergoing a heavy revision. Aegis Retaliator is quite good looking too.

Not a fan of the Hornet.

I think they're trying to develop the ships so that they "make sense" and fit in how they're developing the SC universe and the ship manufacturers, not unlike today car ones (you know, some aesthetic extravaganza here and there, personalization, but nothing THAT wildly different from car to car) but they already hinted at some different and original designs when it comes to alien ships.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pezzle on November 10, 2013, 08:40:54 PM
Is PVP consensual for the public server?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 11, 2013, 06:30:46 AM
Is PVP consensual for the public server?

Still unclear.

Here's a lenghty and technical post, again by Chris Roberts, on the flight physics model of SC:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/1275295/#Comment_1275295


Follow-up posts (replying to other users):
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/1275724/#Comment_1275724
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/1275939/#Comment_1275939
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/1276033/#Comment_1276033


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 12, 2013, 06:07:37 AM
27 Million reached:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13368-Letter-From-The-Chairman-27-Million

So, Banu merchant ship unlocked, now onward to the new beginner ship, the Mustang.

29 Million goal:

Quote
We’re going to devote the $29 million stretch goal to more resources for the single player game, Squadron 42. With Erin Roberts and the other veterans at Foundry 42 hard at work on the game, you can trust that it’s going to be great. Now we’d like to give them some extra resources to work with!

Enhanced Mission Design for Squadron 42 – The team at Foundry 42 has big plans for Squadron 42, and we’re going to provide extra funding to make it a true spiritual successor to Wing Commander! Squadron 42 can go above and beyond anything you’ve seen before. From opening with an epic battle instead of a training patrol to missions that seamlessly combine boarding and space combat, we aim to put you right into the action! Additional funding will let the team realize this, with enhanced mission design and more resources and animations to enhance fidelity.

So, basically, they'll use the FPS part to its full extent in the single-player game as well: in the Wing Commander saga, you might remember some missions that ended in telling you that a "ground unit" was dispatched in an enemy base; or, for example, there was a mission in WC4 where you infiltrated a Black Lance base, but you could only watch Mark Hamill doing his thing in glorious FMV  :grin: . Hopefully, in S42, stuff like that will be much more involving and interactive :)

First look at a Xi'an capital ship concept art (see the $23M goal, although they're only talking about scout ships there):

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/wtkh4lngvoqhtr/post/XI_Capital_ship_WIP02.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Teleku on November 12, 2013, 06:51:07 AM
Man, I know almost nothing about this game or the people making it, but I feel like I should also give them money for a fake spaceship I will never see just so I wont feel left out.   :awesome_for_real:

Hmmm, what bank note should I light on fire ship should I get....


Edit:  NM, Jesus fucking christ these prices!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 12, 2013, 07:02:45 AM
Man, I know almost nothing about this game or the people making it, but I feel like I should also give them money for a fake spaceship I will never see just so I wont feel left out.   :awesome_for_real:

Hmmm, what bank note should I light on fire ship should I get....


Edit:  NM, Jesus fucking christ these prices!

Well, like myself and others previously said in other posts, you can get the simplest and cheapest (but of course it depends on your wallet) package for $40, that will give you access to alpha, beta, standalone modules and the digital version of the proper products (S42 and Star Citizen itself):

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/69-digital-mercenary


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Teleku on November 12, 2013, 07:44:35 AM
Yeah, seeing that now.  From all the chatter I thought there were all sorts of diffrent ships you could buy to get into the game.  I just didn't realize the only sane'ish package was the one you linked with that specific ship.  Seriously, how people are paying so much for just one random fucking ship which they have no idea if it will be shitty or not........

And I'm a guy who threw $500 at a fake card game!

I'll chew on it.   My prospects for this game aren't terribly high, even with the crazy fund raising.  But the idea is intreaguing, if it actually ever happens.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 12, 2013, 10:52:32 AM
The package he linked would be a discount off the launch price. Anything else, you need to really want, and really not want to play the game to get it right off the bat. All ships are able to be gotten in game, so buying something now just means you can start with that ship instead of the starting ship.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: veredus on November 12, 2013, 03:22:57 PM
Also there is the digital scout package.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/68-digital-scout (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/68-digital-scout)
Pretty much the same as the $40 package I believe but no alpha or beta access. I don't want to alpha/beta test, I'd rather just wait until it's done so that's all I bought.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 12, 2013, 03:29:37 PM
Also there is the digital scout package.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/68-digital-scout (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/68-digital-scout)
Pretty much the same as the $40 package I believe but no alpha or beta access. I don't want to alpha/beta test, I'd rather just wait until it's done so that's all I bought.

The only downside of the digital scout, AFAIK, is that it doesn't give you access to the upcoming dogfighting module either. No early pew pew for you!!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: veredus on November 12, 2013, 03:38:29 PM
Ya I know. Only thing I get early is the hangar. I'm OK with that since I really just want to play it when it's complete. Don't want to burn out on it before it's done.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 12, 2013, 07:00:32 PM
Another victim of the hype here.  :heartbreak:

Lost a bit control and went for the $110 dollar ship. Which ends up being €85. But the way I justify it is a full price game on steam costs  ~50€..., so if it was an MMO that's the box price and 3 months of subscription. Which I am going to get out of this.

Now all I need is to find an original backer who can LTI-ify my Freelancer.  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 12, 2013, 07:03:45 PM
I am an original backer. What's the LTI thing?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 12, 2013, 07:07:25 PM
Credit goes to Xuri two pages ago:

http://themittani.com/features/star-citizens-grey-market (http://themittani.com/features/star-citizens-grey-market)

Quote
However, while new backers are unable to buy LTI packages, veteran backers can continue to do so until late November of this year. This enables the process commonly described as ‘pledge laundering’ where a new player gifts an item of equal value from the RSI store to a veteran backer. The veteran backer then melts the gifted item into store credit and uses the credit to purchase the item the new backer wants. Once done, the veteran backer than gifts the new item to the new backer. There’s a lesser known bonus for the backers who pledged during the original kickstarter: lower prices on practically everything. The previously mentioned $275 Rear Admiral package only costs an original backer $250, leaving a $25 excess.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on November 13, 2013, 06:49:18 AM
I too am able to get LTI ships

Clocks ticking though - think you only have until the 26th Nov


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 14, 2013, 02:46:16 AM
More awesome concept art by Elijah McNeal (at the below link, 13 pictures), through the weekly "Meet the Staff" newspost:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13373-Meet-Elijah-McNeal



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Teleku on November 14, 2013, 04:59:59 AM
So are the LTI packages just all the same as the ones they currently offer, but with the added insurance (and possibly cheaper I guess)?  Or are there ship packages offered that are not available to the general public anymore?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 14, 2013, 05:40:59 AM
Credit goes to Xuri two pages ago:

http://themittani.com/features/star-citizens-grey-market (http://themittani.com/features/star-citizens-grey-market)

Quote
However, while new backers are unable to buy LTI packages, veteran backers can continue to do so until late November of this year. This enables the process commonly described as ‘pledge laundering’ where a new player gifts an item of equal value from the RSI store to a veteran backer. The veteran backer then melts the gifted item into store credit and uses the credit to purchase the item the new backer wants. Once done, the veteran backer than gifts the new item to the new backer. There’s a lesser known bonus for the backers who pledged during the original kickstarter: lower prices on practically everything. The previously mentioned $275 Rear Admiral package only costs an original backer $250, leaving a $25 excess.

Ugh. Sorry, no. This is so annoying even to read. I can't wait to play this game, but I haven't been so irritated at a project I supposedly love since forever.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on November 14, 2013, 07:19:04 AM
So are the LTI packages just all the same as the ones they currently offer, but with the added insurance (and possibly cheaper I guess)?  Or are there ship packages offered that are not available to the general public anymore?

Original backers have some ship packages that are not otherwise available and there are some minor price differences on the packages that are common to both original backers and everyone else.

LTI ships have lifetime insurance rather than 'x-months-then-you-start-paying'

Roberts is trying to downplay the importance of LTI and, while I agree with him that insurance costs will probably be negligible and that players will have upgraded the ships fittings minimising the return, I think most people are wary of Eves 'lose it all' gameplay and are looking for a safety net (especially with the more expensive ships)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Tebonas on November 14, 2013, 07:37:30 AM
So helop me out here, please. I've pledged at the Digtal Scout level and ignored the whole game until now. What packages would I need to play the game without an inherent disadvantage and what packages could I give away here without it hurting my own game experience.

Once that is cleared, be free to take advantage of my kickstarting this game for your needs. I just want to play the Single Player game anyway.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Bungee on November 14, 2013, 07:54:50 AM
There are inherent disadvantages by not pledging now? I thought it's all just some cosmetic stuff, new features for everybody and a "thanks for supporting" bonus ship(s). This can't be right, no?

(I'm really only skimming here every now and then because I like me some space pew pew.)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 14, 2013, 08:20:17 AM
Guys, IMO you should stop attaching a non-existant "gameplay value" to the current purchase of ships: at the moment, this is simply about pledging, funding the game. If you're interested in helping the game as it develops (or just want to have various previews in the form of modules and traditional testing phases), pay now for pixels, otherwise just wait for release: it's safe to assume that replacing a whole ship (meaning, the hull) won't be that impossible once the game is out. Like it happens in other multiplayer games, people will manage to find some holes in the economy; also, if you have a guild helping you covering certain costs, it will be even easier.

Again, everything you see right now (especially the real money value of the ships) is there for the sole reason of propelling the funding through hype formulas (which are working REALLY WELL, yes), it's totally unrelated to the actual costs ships will have in-game (and infact, for those attaching a gameplay value to the $225 they spent for a Constellation, it will be a rude wakeup when they'll see someone getting the same ship in, let's say....3 weeks of normal gameplay or even less?)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 14, 2013, 09:08:06 AM
So helop me out here, please. I've pledged at the Digtal Scout level and ignored the whole game until now. What packages would I need to play the game without an inherent disadvantage and what packages could I give away here without it hurting my own game experience.

Once that is cleared, be free to take advantage of my kickstarting this game for your needs. I just want to play the Single Player game anyway.
I'm not quite sure what you mean.  If you have the digital scout package then you have a solid starter ship and depending on when you bought it lifetime insurance.  You don't have anything to give away.  If you are only interested in the single player game then you wouldn't really bother buying individual ships, that's mostly for the online game and even then all it saves you is the amount of time it takes to grind out the money in game.  I don't actually know if you can/would use the purchased ships in the single player game.

The digital scout does not include alpha/beta access, so if you want to fly around in a bug riddled unfinished version of the single player game you would need to upgrade to the next package level.  If you want to do so you can turn your current pledge into credits, buy the difference in credits for the digital bounty hunter package and then buy that package.

tl;dr If you don't want access to the alpha/beta you don't need to spend anymore money, otherwise upgrade to the next package level.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 14, 2013, 09:57:45 AM
There are inherent disadvantages by not pledging now? I thought it's all just some cosmetic stuff, new features for everybody and a "thanks for supporting" bonus ship(s). This can't be right, no?

(I'm really only skimming here every now and then because I like me some space pew pew.)

There are no real advantages/disadvantages between the ships. LTI, will likely save about 1-300* credits every once in a while.

*Adjust for whatever prices the economy ends up being. 500 or 5000.

AFAIK, you play through the single player like wing commander, military provides ships for missions. Then, you retire ( Or skip single player altogether ) out to the persistent world with what ever ships you have. If none, the aura is the starter ship ( with one other being developed ). So, in my case ill start with an aura and a freelancer.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pezzle on November 14, 2013, 10:18:42 AM
My concern is LTI making insurance mandatory for you online players.  Ganksquads of LTI ships running around blowing up or taking whatever they can on disposable characters.  It may all be handled in a way that eliminates the issue, but I have seen no evidence that suggests it yet. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 14, 2013, 10:25:26 AM
Insurance is said to be just like in Eve. Everyone can buy it in game, everyone should. AFAIK, you can insure: The hull ( LTI only insures the hull ), the cargo, the mods on the ship. Each can be insured independently. Some ships, can not be insured, including those that were hijacked ( Like a UEE Carrier ). And "outlaws" and "pirates" have no option to insure.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on November 14, 2013, 01:19:52 PM
Guys, IMO you should stop attaching a non-existant "gameplay value" to the current purchase of ships: at the moment, this is simply about pledging, funding the game.

I keep telling myself that, but every time a new sales pitch comes out, it's impossible to see it as anything other than a sales pitch, and so I view the offering accordingly.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 15, 2013, 06:14:02 PM
An important piece of information has just been posted on the official site: it's about the Anniversary sale period (the last LTI one for original and veteran backers) that will occur between 18th November and the 26th:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13377-Anniversary-Sale-Details

It's very exhaustive, and should also answers some of your questions about future LTI  (relative) importance and the "grey market" of pledging; on the 26th, there will be a 4-hour livestream during which the Team will update us on the game development status and, last but not least, unveil the next batch of ships (in the last few months, they announced destroyers, frigates and escort carriers, so I think we might see a bit of that).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 16, 2013, 04:05:21 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/MnVk6wZ.png)


Soo, which one of those to get? *ponder*


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 16, 2013, 05:27:23 AM
so, as standalone ships, the RSI Aurora LX will be the cheapest one, probably around $40 with LTI for new backers. For those of you already owning a different Aurora model, you'll likely be able to upgrade for a small fee.

Back in July, I paid €65 for my LTI Origin M50 (but again, as an original backer, so it might cost you more if you're new); the 350R will definitely cost more, but the package might include both.

The other listed LTI ships will be quite more expensive, starting from $150 for new backers.

I think I might give in and purchase another package, probably the (already available) SWACS one (Hornet Tracker), but I'll try to resist :P



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Velorath on November 16, 2013, 05:32:48 AM
Anniversary sale

 :uhrr:

Someone please ask Haemish to come up with a word to describe people who have a sale to celebrate the anniversary of the end of their kickstarter. "To celebrate one solid year of selling you guys extra stuff for a game we haven't released yet, we're going to give you another opportunity to buy some more stuff".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rattran on November 16, 2013, 07:51:29 AM
I think the word you're looking for comes from PT Barnum, not Haemish.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on November 16, 2013, 09:26:37 AM
I always mix PT Barnum with EB Farnum.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 16, 2013, 10:12:19 AM
Hahahahaha, oh man I love Kickstarters. It's the Lucy and the football of insane fanboism that just keeps on giving.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 16, 2013, 02:09:56 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/MnVk6wZ.png)


Soo, which one of those to get? *ponder*

The Starfarer, is a sexy beast. But I will earn that one in game, after all, I need something to upgrade to in game :) It also, is quite different then what my freelancer is for, as its all about large amounts of liquid. I See the freelancer more as general cargo.

http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Starfarer

(http://images.wikia.com/starcitizen/images/c/cc/MISC_Starfarer_90m_v01_Jumbo.jpg)

(http://static4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130630012330/starcitizen/images/e/ee/Starfarer_earlyrender3.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on November 16, 2013, 09:22:00 PM
My favorite aesthetically is probably the Caterpillar. It's (planned to be) just a larger, more ungainly, and less solo-able version of the only ship I have, though (Freelancer).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on November 17, 2013, 09:32:53 AM
An important piece of information has just been posted on the official site: it's about the Anniversary sale period (the last LTI one for original and veteran backers) that will occur between 18th November and the 26th:

Remember how I said most of the information about the game was about how you could spend money rather than about the gameplay and Bloodworth was all "nuh uh!"

Yeah. That happened.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 17, 2013, 01:01:09 PM
I would like a starfarer but I also think I'll just buy one with credits earned in game.  I like the idea of being a behind the scenes utility guy that enables the rest of my alliance to succeed.

Caterpillar does look nice, it is billed as the "evil" freelancer, it has a lot of pirate abilities.  If it weren't for the variants coming out for the freelancer I might switch my purchase to one.

The only chance they have of getting more of my money (other than the freelancer variant) is on the 26th where it sounds like they might be selling the alien ships.  I'm a sucker for vertical ships...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 17, 2013, 01:36:59 PM
An important piece of information has just been posted on the official site: it's about the Anniversary sale period (the last LTI one for original and veteran backers) that will occur between 18th November and the 26th:

Remember how I said most of the information about the game was about how you could spend money rather than about the gameplay and Bloodworth was all "nuh uh!"

Yeah. That happened.
To be fair I don't think it's like Chris Roberts has some sort of slush fund where he's siphoning off 50% of everything donated.  The money people are spending on ships will absolutely be spent on the game.  The game itself might wind up being a money pit that never sees the light of day but all that money will be burned on expenses, not hookers and blow.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 18, 2013, 02:23:36 AM
Sale has begun, with the Origin M50 now available in the Pledge store for 24 hours (midnight PST to midnight PST, 9am to 9am CET): € 64 for original and (I think) veteran backers, € 72 for new backers ($80 and $90).

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/interceptor

Quote
If you want to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible and with as much style as possible then ORIGIN’s M50 is for you. Featuring supercharged engines that counter a tiny weapons loadout, the M50 is a ship for going FAST. The core spaceframe is used by both racing teams and for military courier missions, but the civilian M50 is a luxury spacecraft like no other. Perfect for the mercenary who prefers speed over armor in a dogfight… or the weekend warrior looking to impress the ladies.

You can find much more detailed stats on the "Ship specs" page:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/ship-specs

So, what's the M50 good for? (hypothetically, of course)


For "leisure" activities, is one of the best (if not, the best) ships for racing (from what we know, it's going to be a purely twitch based activity with a periodic, tournament structure); in dogfighting, a very skilled player should be able to give hell to slow ships and manage to evade a lot of firepower (otherwise, the M50 will get toasted pretty quickly). An organized squadron of M50s should manage to provide enough distraction while bigger ships will take care of bigger targets: in a PvP multiplayer environment, the most probable scenario is  zerging the enemy with lots of M50  :grin:

Concept art (big pictures, they might be obsolete by now):



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 18, 2013, 02:50:09 AM
As much as I just love to buy stuff, the limited sale ships seem awfully...specialized. A racing shuttle, a support freighter, a long range bomber. I guess the Aurora XL is an exception to this, but it's so ugly...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 18, 2013, 06:29:33 AM
Maybe the right compromise is the Origin 350r (on sale tomorrow), which combines great speed, decent hull and weaponry (plus good aesthetics) for an average dogfighting/exploration combo (but with limited cargo capacity).
---

During last friday's "Wingman's Hangar", someone spotted a PS4 dev kit sitting right next to the project CTO, Jason Spangler (you might remember him from the original UO days as "Stormwind"). The usual, heated debate between retards ensued, so unfortunately Chris Roberts himself had to post the following message on the forums:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/76653/star-citizen-pc-ps4-and-consoles/p1

snippet (post is quite longer) :
Quote
As far as consoles go Star Citizen will never be on the PS3 or Xbox 360. As for the next gen consoles, PS4 and Xbox One, we have NO CURRENT PLANS, but my stance remains open and is consistent with the many interviews I’ve given -

IF the platform holders (Sony & Microsoft) allow us to update the code and data without restrictions and odious time consuming QC procedures, IF they allow our community to openly interact with each other across platforms then I would CONSIDER supporting them.

Why?

Well because then they are essentially inexpensive small form factor PCs with a custom operating system focused on gaming and who wouldn't want a bigger community of Star Citizens? If Sony or Microsoft are willing to let their platform be open, then I see no real difference between them or Valve’s Steambox, a Mac or a PC running Linux, all of which are platforms that I don’t think this community would mind supporting as they are all viewed as “PCs”. In fact most Macs are probably much worse gaming machines than a next gen console (as Apple is the antithesis of what I love about PCs)

But this is a big IF as it’s asking a lot. To their credit Sony seems to be the most eager to embrace indie games and the idea of openness, and they chased us down to give us some dev kits to play with but we’ve been very clear on what it would take to get Star Citizen onto PS4.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on November 18, 2013, 01:43:53 PM
Quote
update the code and data without restrictions and odious time consuming QC procedures
Fucking quality control.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on November 18, 2013, 08:40:09 PM
Quote
update the code and data without restrictions and odious time consuming QC procedures
Fucking quality control.  :oh_i_see:

Those bastards expect paid customers not to test our new codes in LIVE games?
The nerve, damn your Micro$oft!



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on November 18, 2013, 10:24:26 PM
Wait, there's going to be a live game?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on November 19, 2013, 03:15:53 AM
So even if I buy one of these ships during this "Sale" I still have to wait for release?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 19, 2013, 04:23:36 AM
So even if I buy one of these ships during this "Sale" I still have to wait for release?

you can check them out in the hangar module; also, you will be able to fly the ships (still undecided if it's going to be only yours or every single one for testing purposes, albeit in staggered phases) when they'll release the dogfighting module (currently scheduled for late December - mid January).
--------------

Origin M50 sale ended a couple hours ago: they managed to gather around 300K.


Origin 350r now on sale (bold is mine):

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13380-Origin-350R-Now-Available

Quote
Continuing the Star Citizen Anniversary Sale, we are pleased to announce that the Origin Jumpworks 350R is available again for the next 24 hours (ending at midnight PST, November 19, 2013.) The 350R is the twin-engined development of the popular 300i, offering more thrust capacity and a redesigned hull. It’s available today with LTI for all backers, as is the “Lightspeed Package” which includes a digital copy of the game, a 350R and a special racing suit. Interested Citizens can learn more here.

Please note that if you have a non-LTI 350R and would like to upgrade, you should reclaim the original ship or addon and then purchase this version. Simply purchasing an upgrade will not give your ship LTI!

Want to learn more about the Origin 300 Series? Check out the brochure!

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/300i

New backers:

Lightspeed Package - $135 [€108]
Origin 350r standalone ship (comes with the related hangar) - $115 [€92]
Upgrade from plain 300i to 350r - $45 [€36]

Original/Veteran backers:

Lightspeed package - $120 [€96]
350r Standalone ship - $100 [€80]
Upgrade - $45 [€36]

Other links:

Brochure - https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/exfjsh7mejoxir/source/300series_brochure.pdf
300i series video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTBzrUwB6Qo
350r video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYjD1wiTBmM&feature=share&list=PLVct2QDhDrB0QRjv9oN02f8mGsml8tcK9

Like I said yesterday, beside racing, it should be a decent fighter (but for a pure one from the same line, the 325a is better) and decent enough for some short range exploration. Plus, it's quite stylish. More "technical" info on the ship stats page on the official site.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 19, 2013, 11:41:11 AM
28M reached and 14% into 29M.

(http://i.imgur.com/D99DbCe.png)

By the time that game is out it will be bigger than GTA V...  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Merusk on November 19, 2013, 11:59:43 AM
All this shows me is that MMO devs were chumps for only charging $15/ month all these years.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on November 19, 2013, 12:02:05 PM
All this shows me is that MMO devs were chumps for only charging $15/ month all these years.

This is why Blizzard started selling sparkle ponies.  Star Citizen is just Sparkle Ponies all the way down.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 19, 2013, 12:06:56 PM
Quote
update the code and data without restrictions and odious time consuming QC procedures
Fucking quality control.  :oh_i_see:

I believe that he is referring to the High price per patch they charge, and the frequency you are allowed to patch games at, and the required months of QC each has to go though. Its not like on the PC where you can patch out a patch when its done, there are time limits on frequency, and I believe a fee each time, to the tune of tens of thousands per patch ( $40,000 per patch on Xbox360, and PS3 ). Also, there are restrictions on patch size I believe. This would all be the "update the code and data without restrictions and odious time consuming QC procedures" for patching on consoles. Its not just Quality control he is talking about.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yegolev on November 19, 2013, 12:33:25 PM
If those restrictions are not about quality control, then what are they?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on November 19, 2013, 12:42:27 PM
An incentive to make developers put out something good? And by incentive I mean a giant fucking stick of punishment.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on November 19, 2013, 12:52:02 PM
Why the neck can't I buy whatever ship I want plus alpha and beta access without being forced to buy another ship?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 19, 2013, 12:56:01 PM
Why the neck can't I buy whatever ship I want plus alpha and beta access without being forced to buy another ship?

I think you can. Unless I am misunderstanding your question...

What exactly do you want to do?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on November 19, 2013, 12:59:01 PM
So every ship has alpha and beta access?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 19, 2013, 01:07:50 PM
No.  You buy a "package" to get alpha/beta, the game itself and so on.  Most ships can be found on a package, just make sure to read the "This Package Contains" section.

Link to packages. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/newbackers)  Just find the one with the ship you want.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 19, 2013, 01:08:00 PM
So every ship has alpha and beta access?

Ahh. No. All ships are available as "pure ships". Only the ship itself, without the game. Then there are a couple of pledge packages that are ship+game.

If you just want the game (and want alpha access too) the cheapest way is Digital Mercenary (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/69-digital-mercenary) - 40$. It also includes the Aurora, which is sort of a newbie ship which you can't avoid  :-)

Edit: I looked at the store again. The only ships that don't have an optional package with the game tied it are the Drake Cutlass and the RSI Constellation. All others are buy-able in both ways: Ship or Ship+Game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yegolev on November 19, 2013, 01:19:45 PM
An incentive to make developers put out something good? And by incentive I mean a giant fucking stick of punishment.

Sounds like QC to me.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 19, 2013, 01:21:33 PM
Edit: I looked at the store again. The only ships that don't have an optional package with the game tied it are the Drake Cutlass and the RSI Constellation. All others are buy-able in both ways: Ship or Ship+Game.
Constellation is the Rear Admiral package, if you really want to spend $275 on an internet spaceship.

Fake Edit:  I really fucking hate how their website refuses to show you some pages if you are logged in.  I have to switch to a different browser without a cookie just to look at what other people see ffs.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on November 19, 2013, 01:29:54 PM
I wonder how much they have left of the money they've gathered.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 19, 2013, 02:00:20 PM
yeah, let's do it!!  :drill:





Actually, no  :ye_gods:  :grin:


EDIT: btw, new letter from the chairman, 28 million reached:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13382-Letter-From-The-Chairman-28-Million

Excerpt:

Quote
For our next several stretch goals, we’re going to try something different. We are constantly asked where the additional money goes. Surely new mocap hardware or a new starship design doesn’t cost a million dollars. The answer is that the stretch goals are an example: one big thing we will be doing with some of the money. Every additional million means that we’re hiring additional artists and programmers, equipping the team with better development tools and increasing the size of the talented outsource groups being trusted with aspects of Star Citizen’s development. It means more actors and time for mocap studios, more reference for designers, greater variety in game characters, more options in clothing and armor and a large array of ship items and weapons.

Every dollar improves the project. That isn’t as sexy as spending large amounts of money on impressive, headline-grabbing stretch goals… but it means a significantly better game in the end. So, for the next several stretch goals, we’re going to leave you with the knowledge that the money goes to improving all aspects of Star Citizen’s development. Instead of specifying some new development goal, we’re going to add a new ship to the game as a reward.

The design team has imagined a new set of Star Citizen ships, one from each of our big manufacturers. Each ship will have a new role to play in the Star Citizen universe, and unlocking these stretch goals will make it possible to go ahead and start building them. Since the M50 and 350R got us to this point, we’re starting with the Origin Jumpworks design. After that, it’s going to be up to you: the $31 million stretch goal ship will be decided by the poll below!

The Origin 890 JUMP sounds pretty nice and will probably cost an obscene amount of money, out and in-game :P

Anyone who is registered on the website can vote on the poll for the next ship (no need to pledge). Personally, I'm quite undecided between a "traditional" occupation like mining, and the more particular "information runner".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 19, 2013, 02:30:06 PM
That description makes me think of this:

(http://www.swgemu.com/archive/scrapbookv51/data/20070130133310/ladyluck1.jpg)


Also, Lucas , check image size please.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 19, 2013, 02:30:27 PM
Mining is by far the most popular with 31% o.O Personally I'd have expected the usual "ARRR! I wanna be a pirrrrate!" result.

Results spoilerd for size:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 19, 2013, 02:33:44 PM
"information runner"

The Info runner "profession" come from the talks on how information filters to the outside systems from the core. Its kind of a cool concept they have been discussing on the ask a developer threads. Basically, there is no tech that can "beam" news, info and correspondence huge distances. So, someone has to take it to other areas/hubs. That someone is the players. I forsee it as a great tool for espionage.


Quote
Hi Wesha,

Definitely, there is money to be made for couriers who can guarantee that messages can arrive faster and more securely than the comm-relays.

Dave

Quote
Hi Saya,

Thanks for the links. I will definitely try to check them out.

We do have the drones to carry the communications between systems. I would imagine that the military/government/Advocacy have their iterations as well or at least have the ability to 'push' urgent communiques through the regular channels.

So it's just about finding enough science or enough of an explanation to justify our set-up.

Dave

Quote
Hi Cymelion,

That's an interesting point about Star Trek, it was when they tried to get really specific that they got into trouble as the technology proved/disproved some of the science that they presented. You can also see that in sci-fi movies from the 1950's, while many of them are still fun, their 'assertions' about science/space/etc. can be just flat-out incorrect.

Again, our set-up with communication was a specific choice to create opportunities for drama/set-pieces and to make the UEE's ability to manage their Empire much more difficult.

Dave

Quote
Hi Collin,

The intent behind having information needing to be relayed, was that it offered up dramatic possibilities (i.e. if a settlement was attacked by Vanduul, it would take time for authorities/military to be aware of the attack) but also some occupational ones (the need for couriers).

Thanks for writing in,

Dave


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on November 19, 2013, 02:38:50 PM
Which stretch goal will improve/expand character and ship customization? Because I'd kind of like to see that.

I know, I'm a stupid damn dummy MMORPG player. Cosmetic options in a space sim, WTH amirite?

Re: Calapine

Mining? What that says to me is that 31% of pledgers have never played EVE.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 19, 2013, 02:40:05 PM
"information runner"

The Info runner "profession" come from the talks on how information filters to the outside systems from the core. Its kind of a cool concept they have been discussing on the ask a developer threads. Basically, there is no tech that can "beam" news, info and correspondence huge distances. So, someone has to take it to other areas/hubs. That someone is the players. I forsee it as a great tool for espionage.

Hmm, yeah, sounds interesting, infact I voted for it: on the forums, the vast majority is expressing a vote in favour of Mining, anyway, so it's good to offer a more peculiar activity :).

LOL, loved this pic from the "Fifth Element" posted on the forums about a spaceship yacht:

(http://flavorwire.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/fifth3.jpg)



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 19, 2013, 03:10:48 PM
This is a case study waiting to happen.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 19, 2013, 03:19:32 PM
This is a case study waiting to happen.

Awww. Let's be fair. It's fun mocking people who spend fortunes on pixels. (*blush*) but the game only costs 30$ and no sub. If any of the ships were real-money purchase only that be different of course, but as it's now I rather see the money go to a (possibly misguided) attempt to make something new instead of EA, where you know it disappears in a black hole marketing costs and management overhead.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Job601 on November 19, 2013, 03:20:29 PM
Wait, so you can buy all of these ships in the game, and the point of the game is to explore and earn money to buy more ships and other stuff.  You'll presumably end up with lots of ships. But people would rather spend $100 each to have them right away?  What are they going to do when they're actually playing the game?  And these are hardcore gamers who think Zynga is the scum of the earth because it makes housewives put in a quarter to continue?  Maybe if I played Eve this would make sense to me.  


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 19, 2013, 03:25:56 PM
Wait, so you can buy all of these ships in the game, and the point of the game is to explore and earn money to buy more ships and other stuff.  You'll presumably end up with lots of ships. But people would rather spend $100 each to have them right away?  What are they going to do when they're actually playing the game?  And these are hardcore gamers who think Zynga is the scum of the earth because it makes housewives put in a quarter to continue?  Maybe if I played Eve this would make sense to me.  

I guess it's a mixture of getting a head start, not having to grind for your flashy ship and desire to support the game development. How each of this factors is weighted will be different with every individual.

Personally I have no moral qualms about blowing up newblets in their ill fitted newbieships on day 1. :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on November 19, 2013, 03:32:20 PM
That's a lot of people not voting for combat. Should be interesting.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 19, 2013, 03:41:50 PM
That's a lot of people not voting for combat. Should be interesting.

Yes. What would really interest me how the distribution between "Bought the game at launch because I saw an add" and "Following SC for the last 2 years, own 5 ships and know everything there is" players will be. Maybe I am too pessimistic, but I'd worry about an Eve situation that has the game in the hands of 3-4 big alliances one month after launch.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 19, 2013, 03:59:38 PM
Which stretch goal will improve/expand character and ship customization? Because I'd kind of like to see that.

I know, I'm a stupid damn dummy MMORPG player. Cosmetic options in a space sim, WTH amirite?

Re: Calapine

Mining? What that says to me is that 31% of pledgers have never played EVE.

Regarding character customization, a funding goal ($22M) introduced this:

Quote
Facial Capture System. We’ve researched a technology that uses a series of cameras to capture real heads and import them into the game. This will let the team more easily create a variety of realistic characters. In addition, the technology is mobile enough to allow us to take it on the road and capture select fans during special events! You can learn more about this technology at Infinite-Realities.

Plus, looks like we'll get a lot of outfits while we're on ground:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5YJDOwil0k

Take a look starting roughly at the 20:56 mark. Also, from another picture I can't find anymore, it appears that the body might be slot-based, so that we can mix 'n match individual pieces, beside the single outfit that we can wear instantly. I also assume that, given how much they want to push immersion, customization, etc., wel'll get a very solid character creator.

Finally, devs mentioned multiple times that yes, we'll be able to change the colour scheme of our ships, just don't expect a complete paint over; and yes, we'll be able to implement skins (some are already available in the pledge store, see digital add-ons), and they're considering user-made ones, but of course that might raise a lot of issues :P
---

Regarding the last letter, the wording made it look like the game it's now feature complete, and now it's all about the ships and implementing the various mechanics. Small steps, I guess.






Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 19, 2013, 04:03:54 PM
it appears that the body might be slot-based, so that we can mix 'n match individual pieces

Some of this is just necessary for the models ETC. Some will definitely be areas of customization. The Complexity of the player models is extreamly high compared to most games.

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/vtbd95klhvgbmr/source/JumpPoint_01-08_A_Few_Good_Men-V22.jpg)

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/le8akogmh91r8r/source/JumpPoint_01-08_A_Few_Good_Men-V23.jpg)

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/d8u3imag3j4j5r/source/JumpPoint_01-08_A_Few_Good_Men-V28.jpg)

Source (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/13321-Jump-Point-Marine-Rifle-WIP)



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 19, 2013, 10:37:18 PM
IT'S NOT A GAME STOP READING ABOUT IT

FUCK


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 19, 2013, 10:37:35 PM
This is all more insulting than Eve ever was, or ever could be.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 20, 2013, 12:55:14 AM
Noooooooooo!

I just read how the PVP system works and I don't like it at all. Quoting someone else to explain it:

Quote
If Pete the Pirate is hanging out on a trade lane location, that's an instance. If Joe the Merchant comes along and there are no other instances going, my read on the information available is that the game will check Joe's PvP slider and assign a percentage that he runs afoul of Pete that decreases in scale with the extent to which Joe would prefer to fight against the AI.

I'm saying that's a bunch of crap. Inside of UEE space, sure, let Joe fall into an instance chock full of Centurion Merchant Protecting Good Guys. Outside of it, his only protection from having his lunch eaten should be good planning, hired guns or hot engines.

"What a bunch of crap!" Indeed. Anyone want to take a Freelancer of my hands? It's brand new!   :why_so_serious:


I kid, I kid.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on November 20, 2013, 01:47:13 AM
This is a case study waiting to happen.

One that may be subtitled, "Why Chris Roberts Isn't On The Internet Any More".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 20, 2013, 02:13:48 AM
Then, for future reference of this case study, let me post that the third day of the sale has just begun. Caterpillar is today's protagonist:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13383-Drake-Caterpillar-Now-Available

Quote
Today, we’re offering the Drake Interplanetary Caterpillar transport. The Caterpillar is a tough, pirate-oriented transport that should be great for shipping raids and other nefarious activities. Here’s the official description:

Drake maintains that the Caterpillar, a sprawling, modular spacecraft which appears at least somewhat like its namesake, is for legitimate commerce and extended search and rescue missions… but at the end of the day, the Caterpillar is truly the evil twin of the Freelancer.
Designed for supporting pirate operations, the Caterpillar features a large cargo hold for carrying loot, heavier armor than other freighters in its class and room for five crew able to serve in boarding operations. Despite its heavier armor, the Caterpillar isn’t a bulldog… a succesful operation will require a fighter escort.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/281-drake-interplanetary-caterpillar-lti

Description says it all about its possible use.

New backers - $245 [€196]
Original/veteran backers - $225 [€180]

Yep, price is high (certainly higher than a Freelancer, but again it's a combination between a dedicated transport and a ship); it currently doesn't have an hangar because it will only fit in one that is not released, yet: the asteroid hangar (maybe we'll get a first glimpse of its in-engine version during the livestream on the 26th).

Here's a concept art pic of the asteroid/pirate hangar:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/wlxtj4w9wzo55r/source/Pirate_hangar.jpg
                


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 20, 2013, 02:40:39 AM
Because a picture is more ... etc etc

The Drake Catapillar *drumroll*

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/831zrsxbjvv90r/source/Cat-Model-Render4.jpg)

(http://www.pcgames.de/screenshots/667x375/2013/09/Star_Citizen_Caterpillar_Raumschiff_Render_3-pc-games.jpg)

Edit: Lucas' link to the Catapilliar pledge is only available for original backers. Anyone else use this: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/281-drake-interplanetary-caterpillar-lti (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/281-drake-interplanetary-caterpillar-lti)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on November 20, 2013, 02:51:02 AM
I'm not finding the version of it that has Alpha and Beta access.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 20, 2013, 02:54:01 AM
I'm not finding the version of it that has Alpha and Beta access.

There isn't one.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on November 20, 2013, 03:02:50 AM
This is all more insulting than Eve ever was, or ever could be.

You should start developing games this way bro.
We can start a campaign.
Maybe Call it the Frontier: The Wild West

"Here's a gun. A shiny gun. Much like the real revolver, it kills. It features a gold plated handle, with long barrel enhancement. It packs a punch and reliable in duels. It also comes with a Life Time Insurance in case one of those Injuns gets you."

"We are also breeding a new breed of horses. Remember the one we had, the one that went very fast and is hard to tame in the wilds? This one's VERY VERY fast and costs less to keep fed. Comes in multiple shades of brown and white. Saddles are optional. Gold plated ones costs extra."



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Teleku on November 20, 2013, 03:50:25 AM
(http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb137/krenum/ID-BUY-THAT-FOR-A-DOLLAR.jpg)

IT'S NOT A GAME STOP READING ABOUT IT

FUCK
Dude, its a METAGAME!  


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 20, 2013, 04:07:18 AM
This is all more insulting than Eve ever was, or ever could be.

He is  just bitter you didn't think of it first.  :grin:

I'll soo laugh if F13 members together end up spending thousands of dollars for space pixels and next time there is a founding drive here asking for 5$ to keep the forum servers going everyone is "Uhh, sorry. I can't help, wasted all on spaceships!"

Edit: Even better, Schild checking his email, and instead of a paypal donation it's "Congratulations! Someone gifted you an Origin 350r!"   :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Velorath on November 20, 2013, 04:13:11 AM
Unless you, Lucas, Bloodworth, and Miasma somehow made up 95% of the last round of funding, I don't really think that will be a problem.

Edit: And having flipped back through this thread a bit, I feel like Chris Roberts must be paying Lucas for each link he posts here and Bloodworth for each screenshot.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 20, 2013, 04:16:25 AM
Unless you, Lucas, Bloodworth, and Miasma somehow made up 95% of the last round of funding, I don't really think that will be a problem.

True. But you must admit it would funny!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 20, 2013, 04:31:00 AM
Edit: Even better, Schild checking his email, and instead of a paypal donation it's "Congratulations! Someone gifted you an Origin 350r!"   :grin:

I'll so do that, thanks for the input!  :heart:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 20, 2013, 07:20:15 AM
This is all more insulting than Eve ever was, or ever could be.
I'll soo laugh if F13 members together end up spending thousands of dollars for space pixels and next time there is a founding drive here asking for 5$ to keep the forum servers going everyone is "Uhh, sorry. I can't help, wasted all on spaceships!"
That already happened, with HEX.

My new year's resolution is going to be to stop wasting so much money.  Just because I'm fortunate enough to have a good deal of diposable income doesn't mean I should literally dispose of it.

Edit: Removed a poorly written sentence comparing Star Citizen with HEX.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 20, 2013, 07:54:45 AM
What? Hex is not good? I would ask in the proper forum but for reasons too complicated for me to understand it has been closed. So, quick answer, is Hex actually disappointing?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 20, 2013, 08:19:47 AM
Woah woah woah, I never said that.  I mean in comparing two things that aren't finished yet that I've spent money on.  Very narrow field of study.  I can't even really talk about HEX, not just because of NDA but because I'm not bothering to play it until it goes from alpha to beta.

Edit: You know what I'm just going to edit that out because it is open to misinterpretation.  HEX is fine, I was just using it an example of something else a lot of us have paid for but isn't finished.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 20, 2013, 08:27:48 AM
Oh, NDA? Maybe that's why the forum has been closed. Thanks. /derail


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ironwood on November 20, 2013, 09:13:08 AM
Hey, remember the MechWarrior NDA ?

Good Times.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 20, 2013, 09:20:55 AM
Unless you, Lucas, Bloodworth, and Miasma somehow made up 95% of the last round of funding, I don't really think that will be a problem.

Nope, Still have only spent the one pledge long ago. However, I think you are missing quite a few people in that list of yours.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Trippy on November 20, 2013, 09:35:09 AM
Oh, NDA? Maybe that's why the forum has been closed. Thanks. /derail
There's no NDA. schild made it private because metagame. Unfortunately there's no metagame right now cause the card set isn't complete :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 20, 2013, 09:41:22 AM
I always figured it was made private so we wouldn't make fun of them.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 20, 2013, 09:56:28 AM


Stick and Rudder: How to be an informed Star Citizen (http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/11/17/stick-and-rudder-how-to-be-an-informed-star-citizen/)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on November 20, 2013, 12:48:00 PM
100 developers? Even 30 million isn't going to last long with that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 20, 2013, 01:29:11 PM
Maybe he's a student of the Curt Schilling school of Management?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 20, 2013, 02:17:50 PM
Noooooooooo!

I just read how the PVP system works and I don't like it at all. Quoting someone else to explain it:

Quote
If Pete the Pirate is hanging out on a trade lane location, that's an instance. If Joe the Merchant comes along and there are no other instances going, my read on the information available is that the game will check Joe's PvP slider and assign a percentage that he runs afoul of Pete that decreases in scale with the extent to which Joe would prefer to fight against the AI.

I'm saying that's a bunch of crap. Inside of UEE space, sure, let Joe fall into an instance chock full of Centurion Merchant Protecting Good Guys. Outside of it, his only protection from having his lunch eaten should be good planning, hired guns or hot engines.

"What a bunch of crap!" Indeed. Anyone want to take a Freelancer of my hands? It's brand new!   :why_so_serious:


I kid, I kid.



Whom ever you are quoting, missed some really important parts of the system.

Chris Roberts on Multiplayer, Single Player and Instancing (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12770-Chris-Roberts-On-Multiplayer-Single-Player-And-Instancing)


Quote
Outside of it, his only protection from having his lunch eaten should be good planning, hired guns or hot engines.

That's exactly how it is.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on November 20, 2013, 03:36:44 PM
Original/veteran backers - $225

Nice ship. But, uh... nope.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ginaz on November 20, 2013, 03:46:04 PM
Is it just me or is like 90% of posts in this thread about prices, package tiers, funding or something else regarding money?  Not a good sign IMO.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 20, 2013, 03:49:02 PM
Is it just me or is like 90% of posts in this thread about prices, package tiers, funding or something else regarding money?  Not a good sign IMO.

It's not you. It's like watching a Ponzi scheme in real time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on November 20, 2013, 04:53:44 PM
Is it just me or is like 90% of posts in this thread about prices, package tiers, funding or something else regarding money?  Not a good sign IMO.

That's all there is to talk about. Discussions about what the game is need to wait until there's something people have actually played. And discussions about what the game could maybe someday possibly be lost interest over a dozen pages back.

There's a few really interested people here who like posting game updates in general, which is fed well by Roberts' et al releasing info in a nice predictable sequence. Soon schild will be able to sell ad space just in this thread for the SEO value being built  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 20, 2013, 05:06:15 PM
Honestly, I am really surprised Schild hasn't locked this thread yet.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Velorath on November 20, 2013, 05:16:19 PM
Is it just me or is like 90% of posts in this thread about prices, package tiers, funding or something else regarding money?  Not a good sign IMO.

That's all there is to talk about. Discussions about what the game is need to wait until there's something people have actually played. And discussions about what the game could maybe someday possibly be lost interest over a dozen pages back.

People use this excuse in threads a lot, always missing the obvious solution of just not talking if there's nothing to talk about.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on November 20, 2013, 05:27:51 PM
Well yes. But then the only threads with multiple pages across this entire site would be the "is this game dead" 21-pager in GW2 (which of course tells you how dead the game is...), the related it-sucks WAR threads, and probably some secret corp-mgt threads in the Eve forum  :grin:

The size of this thread is a combination of what I said above and there being intense interest in someone taking space-sims serious. I read this thread a lot. I will not pay anything for virtual items I can't interact with, but understand why the level of hope for this game does drive others to. It's a sociological insight into an underserved market about a long dormant game type.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 20, 2013, 05:28:50 PM
Honestly, I am really surprised Schild hasn't locked this thread yet.

Hehe, me too  :why_so_serious:

Look, no problem. If the majority of you guys find this thread a nuisance or whatever, why don't we just lock it 'til the release of the dogfighting module? Yeah, it still won't be the "proper" game, but there will be quite a lot more to talk about. Or, just move it temporarily (I hope, at least :P) to the Den. Btw, I'm writing this without any anymosity (again, I'm serious), really. It's just that the pattern repeats itself on a almost daily basis: someone post a news item, some other post "there is no game/pay for internet spaceship/etc. and it goes on and on.

Or, we'll just all agree to shut up and leave this thread to rot 'til the aforementioned module.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on November 20, 2013, 06:14:54 PM
I say keep it open, I always look forward to new posts in this thread, it's free entertainment.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on November 20, 2013, 07:27:52 PM
Honestly, I am really surprised Schild hasn't locked this thread yet.

Working off his Hex karma.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Azazel on November 20, 2013, 10:07:39 PM
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/281-drake-interplanetary-caterpillar-lti

Description says it all about its possible use.

New backers - $245 [€196]
Original/veteran backers - $225 [€180]

Yep, price is high (certainly higher than a Freelancer, but again it's a combination between a dedicated transport and a ship); it currently doesn't have an hangar because it will only fit in one that is not released, yet: the asteroid hangar (maybe we'll get a first glimpse of its in-engine version during the livestream on the 26th).

Here's a concept art pic of the asteroid/pirate hangar:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/wlxtj4w9wzo55r/source/Pirate_hangar.jpg
                

I'm confused. Is this an in-game spaceship for an unreleased MMO that you need to buy for $250 real dollars?   :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on November 20, 2013, 10:16:10 PM
I want to sell this robot I made over lunch.




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 21, 2013, 01:05:32 AM
But what are the stretch goals, RK?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on November 21, 2013, 01:12:23 AM
But what are the stretch goals, RK?

We might add in Player-Tanks that can fight Mechs on even ground if the Anderson is fully sold out.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 21, 2013, 02:39:26 AM
I am disappoint. I want a dating sim for the 30M stretch goal.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samwise on November 21, 2013, 02:41:44 AM
 :heart:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on November 21, 2013, 03:28:07 AM
I am disappoint. I want a dating sim for the 30M stretch goal.

Why, Falconeer, we apologize for this oversight, but there's good news up ahead for BEYOND 30M - we've taken some time to contact the best of the best in the gaming industry and realized what people want from a sci-fi setting. And so we went for the best - and nothing for the best. We present you this update:

For 32 mil, we'll bring in Jennifer Hepler of the Dragon Age 2 fame to write romance NPC that are instanced to every player and capable of playing the role of the player's spouse. Just like The Old Republic Online!

Expect a wide array of personalities that the Bioware veteran is famous for, including:
A man that was betrayed, and is afraid of being betrayed again - hence it will be difficult for him to trust again. But the player can slowly gain his trust and help him overcome the trauma of betrayal and achieve a semblance of happiness. It will be a bittersweet ending for him as the player partners him and dogfight against nearly impossible odds against his old Commander who betrayed him and cast him aside. We've also approached several leading actors to lend their voices to the role, some names include Robert Pattinson and Brad Pitt.

A young woman bound by rules and laws, only to meet the player who is seemingly uncaring of such restrictive boundaries and culture - this confused her greatly for it invokes a previously unknown emotions within her. It's up to the player to magnetize himself and continue her growing attraction, eventually she will understand that Love can transcend even oath and laws - a bond so powerful that evolves from a simple master and apprentice into something more... deep. We've taken the liberty of twitting the circles of sci-fi actresses and realize we will not settle for anything less than Natalie Portman or Sandra Bullock.

A man who is easily caught up in passion and emotions that he cannot seem to make up his mind, his abrasive nature can be a turn off to many ladies/man but a few players can see beneath his facade. Did we say he is bi? He is simply searching for someone that can accept him the way he is. He also has a soft spot for kittens and dabble in slightly questionable activity that is widely seen in a bad light by the authorities. Beware, inflexible players may lose his affection and lose him.. permanently. We can't think of anyone else but Hugh Grant for this role, either that or perhaps Sean Connery can come out of retirement and lend his voice. We can only hope.

A woman who believes in her own strength and unwilling to rely on another man. Female players will have an easier time approaching her. Yes, that's right, we made her bi. Depending on the player's action, he/she can prove to this personality that it is okay to rely on others and growing attachments can inspire one to greater strengths and not simply an act of weakness that she once perceived. For this, we need someone young, independent and wild - no one else can beat Miley Cirus. We look forward to seeing a lot of player enjoying the interaction with a digitalized version of the idol they know so well and love.

Jennifer is also bringing in a new gameplay feature to the table. If we fail to hit the $32,000,000 mark, we will implement her idea to fixing broken combat and tedium - The Fast Forward button. Yes, obviously this will be quite a touchy topic between hardcore PVPers but let me remind you that it is a consensual thing. Let me explain: if a fast ship fights a slow ship and assume both pilots are of equal skill, it's obvious who's gonna win right? Fast Forward will obviously solve a lot of tedium like, the fast pilot having to dodge turret fire to get his loot. Or the slow cargo ship awaiting to be blown up. So Hepler's solution would be to put in a Consensual Fast Forward feature where opposing players would agree for an encounter to be fast forwarded so it'll save the server bandwidth and their effort as well.

We understand that this seems controversial: so vote with your wallets. If you don't want it implemented, help us reach the 32 million mark.
You know what happens if you don't.  


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 21, 2013, 05:14:30 AM
This is amazing, and since all Roberts is selling right now is dreams, I would love for it to be implemented as the next stretch goal in Star Citizen. Space Romance, hell yeah. After all, what are those big ships for if not galactic cuddle puddles? In fact, I hope the next ship up for sale will be some honeymoon cruiser with a king size bed. Also available in the Polyamorous, Asexual, Tribal and BDSM variants.

And more importantly, will the "Relationship module" use the CryTek engine too? I'm a little worried about this...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Speedy Cerviche on November 21, 2013, 09:38:35 AM
No pod racing? I would prefer that. Think of the e-sports league potential.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on November 21, 2013, 09:40:48 AM
No pod racing? I would prefer that. Think of the e-sports league potential.

Blood bowl. In spaaaaaceeeeeeeee.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on November 21, 2013, 09:47:50 AM
If this were a space dating sim I'd be much more inclined to contribute.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on November 21, 2013, 10:13:54 AM
I think the mech / tank is a better platform for a dating SIM.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Thrawn on November 21, 2013, 11:58:54 AM
It's not you. It's like watching a Ponzi scheme in real time.

That is what I'm going to use to describe Star Citizen from now on if anyone asks me about it or brings it up.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Rasix on November 21, 2013, 12:05:20 PM
Sure, do that.  You're just not getting in on the ground floor and that'll cost you in the long run.  See, if you buy these space ships now, you can turn around and sell them for more later.  The Behemoth may cost you $75 right now, but imagine when you can sell it for 3 million space bucks and fully outfit another, classier ship.   Better yet, you can recruit people into your Star Citizen Squadron.  For each person you recruit, Star Citizen will provide you with free hangar updates and access to exclusive sales.  You want that Space Donger 5000? Well, it's only available to people with 10 people in their squadron, so start expanding your network.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: HaemishM on November 21, 2013, 12:07:14 PM
Honestly, I am really surprised Schild hasn't locked this thread yet.

Working off his Hex karma.

I'm confused. Did Hex suck or something?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on November 21, 2013, 12:15:09 PM
Honestly, I am really surprised Schild hasn't locked this thread yet.

Working off his Hex karma.

I'm confused. Did Hex suck or something?

It has gone from cool idea to actual buggy alpha. Should still be just fine, it is just the sausage making stage. Which is miles beyond SC even now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2013, 12:31:40 PM
We can still make fun of that too, though? Right?

I do enjoy Schild informing us how he can still flip his accounts.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on November 21, 2013, 12:40:37 PM
Make fun all you want, but it is an actual game rather than a series of screenshots and dollar signs. Huge patch just hit a few minutes ago that gives me hope they are getting it. I think they were overwhelmed trying to fulfill their promise of getting all the backers into the alpha, and actually solving some of other issues took a back seat to that. Now that everyone who is entitled to alpha access has it they can go back to quicker iterations (I hope).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 21, 2013, 01:07:06 PM
It has gone from cool idea to actual buggy alpha. Should still be just fine, it is just the sausage making stage. Which is miles beyond SC even now.
I'll put the SC hanger module's stability up against the current state of HEX anyday.

You guys realize we have been able to download, patch, login, walk around, walk inside and change the fittings on all our internet spaceships for months now right?  The files are unencypted cryengine modules so people can even do their own tweaks and mods.

Be sure to change these to at least 720p:

In game Constellation (Large multiplayer multirole ship). (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH0jbr6DjNo)  The hovering/flying is modded.
Constellation interior. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqwsG15L1NI&feature=player_detailpage#t=104)

In game Freelancer (Business/hauler) and Aurora (Starter ship). (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGKHKkH3034)

In game Merlin (Tiny snub fighter that launches out of the Constellation). (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLH96UCFr8A)  The planet it is on was modded in by the video's maker.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samwise on November 21, 2013, 01:09:06 PM
You guys realize we have been able to download, patch, login, walk around, walk inside and change the fittings on all our internet spaceships for months now right?

I'm not sure if this is intentionally hilarious or unintentionally really hilarious.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ironwood on November 21, 2013, 01:10:56 PM
Hopefully both.  The Modded parts were the cream.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 21, 2013, 01:11:22 PM
I'm not sure if this is intentionally hilarious or unintentionally really hilarious.
I'm comparing it to HEX, not fully released games.  And some people do seem to be under the impression that zero work or effort has been made on the game yet.
Hopefully both.  The Modded parts were the cream.
The modded parts were a guy changing a few lines in xml files, I'm sure someone who is actually making the game can do that too.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ironwood on November 21, 2013, 01:13:29 PM
I'm sure they can.

I can also make my own coffee.  I tend not to pay Costa hundreds of pounds so that I can do that.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 01:33:40 PM
I'm not locking this thread until the next donation drive. Wherein I expect everyone who put money into Star Citizen to at least match that in donations.

Then I'll decide what to do with this insane bullshit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2013, 01:47:50 PM
Chris Roberts Moneyhat pics seem appropriate at some point.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on November 21, 2013, 01:54:40 PM
You guys realize we have been able to download, patch, login, walk around, walk inside and change the fittings on all our internet spaceships for months now right?  The files are unencypted cryengine modules so people can even do their own tweaks and mods.

The amount of work on display in the hangar module is something a good mod team could put together in a couple weeks. (Minus maybe the detailing on the models) It's a room made in CryEngine.

It's like 0.05% of a game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Speedy Cerviche on November 21, 2013, 02:04:00 PM
Can you add decals & paint patterns to those hanger ships or is that part of a later donation drive?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2013, 02:19:36 PM
Can you add decals & paint patterns to those hanger ships or is that part of a later donation drive?

Cosmetic upgrades are part of the in-game item shop.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 02:20:08 PM
I'd just like to note. Its not the people actually interested in this game, who are shitting up the thread.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samwise on November 21, 2013, 02:23:04 PM
Is this a thread?  I thought it was a Kickstarter RSS feed or something.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on November 21, 2013, 02:23:47 PM
Because this isn't a game, it is a cult designed to separate people from their cash.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 02:33:26 PM
It's a game that's in development like any other game that uses crowed funding. This one, even had game play footage and more shown before the crowed funding even started. Unlike many Crowed funded game projects, that typically only have concept art at best.

Why this thread is allowed to be openly trolled, I have no idea. By mods even.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on November 21, 2013, 02:39:10 PM
Quote
crowed funding



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 02:41:45 PM
Quote
Why this thread is allowed to be openly trolled, I have no idea. By mods even.

1. Chris Roberts
2. Space bullshit
3. Not actually a game
4. The amount of money spent is worthy of ridicule.
5. There will be no return on investment here. It's the actual definition of "throwing money in a fire."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 02:46:09 PM
Quote
Why this thread is allowed to be openly trolled, I have no idea. By mods even.

1. Chris Roberts
2. Space bullshit
3. Not actually a game
4. The amount of money spent is worthy of ridicule.
5. There will be no return on investment here. It's the actual definition of "throwing money in a fire."

All your opinion. Much of that can be applied to any crowed funded game. Time will tell how it turns out.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2013, 02:46:35 PM
I mean honestly, I defy you to find a rational person who has never heard of this project to come in and tell you it sounds like a great idea to spend $250 on a fictional ship for a game that's not even released.

EDIT: It feels absurd even typing that out.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 02:48:01 PM
I mean honestly, I defy you to find a rational person who has never heard of this project to come in and tell you it sounds like a great idea to spend $250 on a fictional ship for a game that's not even released.

EDIT: It feels absurd even typing that out.

Its a Pledge. Spend what you want, and what its worth to you. For many, a game created by the guy who basically defined the genre, that may be worth it to them to help see it gets built.  Considering how much money some of you spend on derivative bullshit, I'm not sure why you are complaining about a game you have no internist in.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2013, 02:49:07 PM
No, it's not a pledge, it's in a fucking online store. Do you not see the difference? He is actively selling you a bridge in an online store with a checkout cart just like Amazon.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 02:51:25 PM
I had a long ass post about this comparing Hex to Star Citizen, but I couldn't take Star Citizen seriously enough to finish the post. I don't know what part of my previous post is opinion. It's pretty much all fact as far as I can tell.

1. Chris Roberts - Yep, actually behind it
2. Space bullshit - Yep, it's space bullshit and attracting the same crowd as Eve - the only reason you wouldn't call that "Space Bullshit" would be due to a serious case of Stockholm Syndrome
3. Not actually a game - Correct
4. The amount of money spent is worthy of ridicule. - $2M went to Hex, which actually has a tangible business plan and future, all that's left is execution. $30M went to this... See number 5
5. There will be no return on investment here. It's the actual definition of "throwing money in a fire." - Fact. How does anyone in Star Citizen expect to see a return? "Fun." You don't invest in "fun," sorry.

Edit: Oh look, more responses. Inventing a genre? WE REALLY GONNA GO DOWN THIS ROUTE? This is basically the easiest thing to refute in the history of gaming. I wish I could tag Raph and Garriott to see what they have to say about this stupid scam.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 02:51:51 PM
No, it's not a pledge, it's in a fucking online store. Do you not see the difference? He is actively selling you a bridge in an online store with a checkout cart just like Amazon.

Its a Pledge drive, the store is labeled store.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Rasix on November 21, 2013, 02:53:30 PM
Quote
crowed funding



(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/82533/russell-crowe.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 02:53:57 PM
No, it's not a pledge, it's in a fucking online store. Do you not see the difference? He is actively selling you a bridge in an online store with a checkout cart just like Amazon.
Its a Pledge drive, the store is labeled store.
This is one of those cases where you're being such an absurd wretch of a man that I actively want to poke you right in the eye with a fork through the internet.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 02:54:40 PM
Funny, I was thinking the same thing. You guys do what you want though.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on November 21, 2013, 02:59:10 PM
At least those of us who spent too much money on Hex have generally been good humored about it.  Jeez!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 02:59:36 PM
Bloodworth, I know you haven't yet been on the laser-focused receiving end of shit like this, so I'll spell it out for you.

EVERYONE THAT ISN'T ENAMORED WITH THIS CARTON OF LIES THINKS YOU'RE ALL FUCKING INSANE.

INSANE.

BROKEN AND INSANE.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 03:03:48 PM
ok ok I've calmed down.

A genuinely serious question:

Let's assume the game comes out and it's the second coming of christ. What's the difference between people who give money to it now and people who just, like, buy into it later?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 21, 2013, 03:05:08 PM
At least those of us who spent too much money on Hex have generally been good humored about it.  Jeez!
The HEX forum is private, only people who have bought in can post there.  Mark it public and see how many people come in to shit on the people who supported that kickstarter.  "You paid how much for fucking imaginary internet cards in a game that doesn't even exist yet?"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 03:05:26 PM
All I have done is pledged, and watched.

I think its you guys who are enamored. Visiting other sites and forums, people do not seem to be as obsessed as many here are.

Let's assume the game comes out and it's the second coming of christ. What's the difference between people who give money to it now and people who just, like, buy into it later?

Not much ( maybe some credits "saved" on Ship insurance ). But with out the pledge drive, its unlikely to get made, with the freedom of no investors and no publisher can provide.  I Can't speak for others, but I expect no return other than a game I want to play. I knew this when I pledged.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 03:06:22 PM
At least those of us who spent too much money on Hex have generally been good humored about it.  Jeez!
The HEX forum is private, only people who have bought in can post there.  Mark it public and see how many people come in to shit on the people who supported that kickstarter.  "You paid how much for fucking imaginary internet cards in a game that doesn't even exist yet?"
Once again, no one there is under the illusion that it was a good idea. But the precedent of 20 years of Magic makes the premise tangible.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 03:06:41 PM
All I have done is pledged, and watched.

I think its you guys who are enamored. Visiting other sites and forums, people do not seem to be as obsessed as many here are.
Answer my previous question.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2013, 03:08:15 PM
The only difference between the crazy is a semi-playable product. I got absolutely roasted for bringing up similar criticisms in the HEX thread. For $250 no less.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 03:09:27 PM
I just want my relatively simple question answered :( I can answer it for Hex, I want someone to answer it here so that I can understand the thought process.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 03:10:50 PM
But the precedent of 20 years of Magic makes the premise tangible.

But 27 23 years of some of the best Space Sims made ( And to add, some of the most financially successful titles ever made, that essentially wrote the standard for space sims. ) by the people on this team is null and void? I understand.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 03:11:15 PM
I just want my relatively simple question answered :( I can answer it for Hex, I want someone to answer it here so that I can understand the thought process.

Quote
Not much ( maybe some credits "saved" on Ship insurance ). But with out the pledge drive, its unlikely to get made, with the freedom of no investors and no publisher can provide.  I Can't speak for others, but I expect no return other than a game I want to play. I knew this when I pledged.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 21, 2013, 03:13:29 PM
ok ok I've calmed down.

A genuinely serious question:

Let's assume the game comes out and it's the second coming of christ. What's the difference between people who give money to it now and people who just, like, buy into it later?
What's the difference between me who has donated hundreds of dollars to f13 over the years and the guy who only registered a couple years ago and hasn't donated a dime?  Nothing but a sense that I helped contribute to something I enjoy and some silly perks like a custom title here and collector's baubles in SC.

It's not about return on investment or anything like that, I've never thought of any video game as an investment, they're all expenses.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2013, 03:16:32 PM
Quote
Not much ( maybe some credits "saved" on Ship insurance ). But with out the pledge drive, its unlikely to get made, with the freedom of no investors and no publisher can provide.  I Can't speak for others, but I expect no return other than a game I want to play. I knew this when I pledged.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Velorath on November 21, 2013, 03:17:52 PM
All your opinion. Much of that can be applied to any crowed funded game. Time will tell how it turns out.

Most games that get crowd funded don't keep going back to the well to get the same handful of people that funded the game to keep giving out money. This isn't crowd funding at this point, it's the fucking Nigerian Prince scam.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on November 21, 2013, 03:21:34 PM
Speaking of African royalty...

(http://i.imgur.com/JZq6LXx.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 03:21:48 PM
ok ok I've calmed down.

A genuinely serious question:

Let's assume the game comes out and it's the second coming of christ. What's the difference between people who give money to it now and people who just, like, buy into it later?
What's the difference between me who has donated hundreds of dollars to f13 over the years and the guy who only registered a couple years ago and hasn't donated a dime?  Nothing but a sense that I helped contribute to something I enjoy and some silly perks like a custom title here and collector's baubles in SC.

It's not about return on investment or anything like that, I've never thought of any video game as an investment, they're all expenses.
I'm going to ignore this response for 2 reasons:

1. I like you.
2. You totally just ignored my actual question, which isn't typically your style. I'll just blame Star Citizen. Or Obama, whatever.

As for the other response - so there's no difference between buying into it now and buying into it later. None, at all. In fact, there's only one major difference. In the likely event that the game never reaches the potential people expect, the people who "pledge" (BUY) into it, have already spent money and it's gone and the people that waited get to popcorn.gif.

Got it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2013, 03:22:40 PM
Also, they're going to kill that dog, man. Have you no heart?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 03:24:53 PM
All your opinion. Much of that can be applied to any crowed funded game. Time will tell how it turns out.

Most games that get crowd funded don't keep going back to the well to get the same handful of people that funded the game to keep giving out money. This isn't crowd funding at this point, it's the fucking Nigerian Prince scam.


You know those people voted to keep the pledge going right? Also, The number of "citizens" on the front page has been steadily going up. Its not just old pledges. You are correct though, it is unprecedented.

How much are those pack of Hex cards again? Because, for me, the Magic/Hex/Card games are the most egregious in terms of money. I mean, its right there in the rule system that you have to continually spend money to be competitive, not just to play, but to compete. But you don't see me trolling threads about it. To each his own.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 21, 2013, 03:24:57 PM
ok ok I've calmed down.

A genuinely serious question:

Let's assume the game comes out and it's the second coming of christ. What's the difference between people who give money to it now and people who just, like, buy into it later?

Preamble: I know you didn't accuse me of that but I don't think SC will be the second coming of Christ. As for space shooters go Tie Fighter was a better, more complex game than the Wing Commanders. What I liked about the latter were the (at the time) new heavy story focus and cutscenes between missions. Two reasons (I think) why people are so hyped: 1) Space shooters are a dead genre, almost like turn based strategy games 2) WC has a lot of sentimental value attached. Childhood memories ;)

Your question: Probably (hopefully) not much. 1) There is the free insurance perk, but CR said explicitly that insurance will be priced thusly that it won't be a game changing difference. He likened them to landing fees in the Privateer games. 2) Having the ships right away, instead of to work for them. Don't have a source for this but the 225$ ship is supposed to be worth about 60 gameplay hours if you earn it ingame. Additionally there will be no real-money exclusive ships (or weapon). The exception to that is fluff items...paint jobs, decals, those things.

Edit: 7 replies since I started typing. Oh well, not discarding it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 03:27:02 PM
As for the other response - so there's no difference between buying into it now and buying into it later. None, at all. In fact, there's only one major difference. In the likely event that the game never reaches the potential people expect, the people who "pledge" (BUY) into it, have already spent money and it's gone and the people that waited get to popcorn.gif.

This is different than any other pledge drive how? To use the same example, what happens if Hex is a steaming pile of shit, or any other kick-starter for that matter.


All I want is the trolling to stop. But I know F13, once the group think starts, you can't fight the current. I Think everyone knows, including me, 10,000 for a internet space ship is crazy, try talking to those people.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on November 21, 2013, 03:32:24 PM
Funny, I was thinking the same thing. You guys do what you want though.

Instead of spamming the thread with endless news about fundraising while laughably claiming that the "game" isn't mostly about fundraising why not post something substantial about the actual "game"?

I accused the game of being mostly about fundraising efforts and your railed against that, but in the meantime every bit of news about the game is just about what new stupid shit they're selling to idiots. Some of you can't even grasp the difference between game info and "here's what's on sale this week" info.

The product here is a store. That's all you or anyone else talks about, that's all the makers of the "game" talk about.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 03:34:58 PM
Funny, I was thinking the same thing. You guys do what you want though.

Instead of spamming the thread with endless news about fundraising while laughably claiming that the "game" isn't mostly about fundraising why not post something substantial about the actual "game"?

I Have, you fucks drown it out. You could, you know, stop trolling a game thread you care nothing about.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on November 21, 2013, 03:35:15 PM
For 32 mil, we'll bring in Jennifer Hepler of the Dragon Age 2 fame to write romance NPC that are instanced to every player and capable of playing the role of the player's spouse. Just like The Old Republic Online!
I'm glad my cup was still up to my lips when I read this, else there would have been water all over my keyboard.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 21, 2013, 03:35:45 PM
ok ok I've calmed down.

A genuinely serious question:

Let's assume the game comes out and it's the second coming of christ. What's the difference between people who give money to it now and people who just, like, buy into it later?
What's the difference between me who has donated hundreds of dollars to f13 over the years and the guy who only registered a couple years ago and hasn't donated a dime?  Nothing but a sense that I helped contribute to something I enjoy and some silly perks like a custom title here and collector's baubles in SC.

It's not about return on investment or anything like that, I've never thought of any video game as an investment, they're all expenses.
I'm going to ignore this response for 2 reasons:

1. I like you.
2. You totally just ignored my actual question, which isn't typically your style. I'll just blame Star Citizen. Or Obama, whatever.

As for the other response - so there's no difference between buying into it now and buying into it later. None, at all. In fact, there's only one major difference. In the likely event that the game never reaches the potential people expect, the people who "pledge" (BUY) into it, have already spent money and it's gone and the people that waited get to popcorn.gif.

Got it.
I honestly did think I answered your question, it is just in the parallel.

Aside from some minor perks and a few weeks time saved in grinding out money there will be no material difference between myself and someone who buys the game at launch.  People who bought the cheapest package will save real world money by buying it now instead of later.

I only bought the package now because I like space games, I would like a better version of EvE and I would like to support the game.

The only thing I'm going to get if it ever sees the light of day is a little satisfaction from knowing I helped a bit by supporting it.

I donate to f13 because I like the place and the vast majority of the people, there is no tangible real world benefit, it just makes me feel good to support something I like and enjoy.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 03:37:30 PM
Bloodworth, I have a pile of 4 Magic cards + a half-full binder that I'm probably about to sell for about $4,000 by merely making a single phone call.

That is less than I've put into Magic in the last 5 years put together and I was ranked in the top 50 in Texas in 2012-2013 with nominal playing. I took down 2 $1ks, and top 32'd multiple $5k+ tournaments (and top 16'd 3 of them). I also have an incomplete cube worth about $15,000 (as in, I could sell it right now for $15,000) that I've put about $1,000 into, if that.

Don't talk about what you don't understand. I'm obviously in the minority of Magic players, but I don't see a way to arbitrage the secondary market of a space scam in an efficient way.

The only thing egregious about Magic is that bad players keep spending money instead of making it.

Edit: You posted again:
As for the other response - so there's no difference between buying into it now and buying into it later. None, at all. In fact, there's only one major difference. In the likely event that the game never reaches the potential people expect, the people who "pledge" (BUY) into it, have already spent money and it's gone and the people that waited get to popcorn.gif.

This is different than any other pledge drive how? To use the same example, what happens if Hex is a steaming pile of shit?

All I want is the trolling to stop. But I know F13, once the group think starts, you can't fight the current. I Think everyone knows, including me, 10,000 for a internet space ship is crazy, try talking to those people.
1. This isn't trolling. Trolling is done in an attempt to get a rise out of people. I could give a shit less about that.

2. Hex already isn't a piece of shit. It's better than MODO in every way (which accounts for nearly 30% of WOTCs overall Magic business), even though it currently crashes more often due to server load issues. They asked for a few hundred thousand - which was to be used for marketing. They got multiple millions because what was being offered was WAY too good to pass up. I would drop $2k RIGHT NOW for 4 drafts a week for life in Magic. That's an absurd ABSURD, ABSURD, deal. That's 12 hours of gaming, every single week, in a PROFITABLE system, for both the company and the player. And then we got some infinite amount of packs on top of the 4 drafts a week. Seriously, they fucked up in the Kickstarter and five years from now, they will regret having done it. Well, maybe not regret it, since they basically insured the inevitable demise of MODO should they be able to deliver.

3. It's not different from any pledge drives. Pledge drives are stupid. I don't run a pledge drive. I run a "give me money and f13 stays up another year, things cost dollars, and I don't have dollars for this" drive. Thankfully, last time, we got to pay for our servers for 2 years, which was GREAT. And this year we got a redesign, which we sorely needed. When my wedding is done I actually can't wait to jump in head first on other stuff with it. But Star Citizen, $30M later, they don't actually have anything to show for it except "Oh, now you can get this thing for more money." rinse, repeat.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Velorath on November 21, 2013, 03:38:16 PM
How much are those pack of Hex cards again? Because, for me, the Magic/Hex/Card games are the most egregious in terms of money. I mean, its right there in the rule system that you have to continually spend money to be competitive, not just to play, but to compete. But you don't see me trolling threads about it. To each his own.

I played Magic early on when it came out (Unlimited-Fallen Empire). When I quit and sold off my cards I made back probably around 3X what I had paid. My brother who had started playing shortly before me and had a Black Lotus and all the Moxes had an even bigger return on his investment obviously. Hex is a roll of the dice in that respect but the early gameplay looked good. Before the Kickstarter had ended we were able to see Twitch streams of games actually played through to completion. If (and admittedly it's a big if) the game follows a similar path as MTG, it could end up being a fun game to play for a few years but also a decent investment a few years down the road when it's time to cash out. I'm pretty confident that even if game doesn't hit it big, as long as it doesn't tank completely I could at the very least break even or make a small profit off my account.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on November 21, 2013, 03:38:34 PM
Funny, I was thinking the same thing. You guys do what you want though.

Instead of spamming the thread with endless news about fundraising while laughably claiming that the "game" isn't mostly about fundraising why not post something substantial about the actual "game"?

I think this is kind of the issue.  If they had stopped after the kickstarter and people were just mulling around excited for this game I don't think people would care.  
But it's the post after post of "now buy this ship" for a game that doesn't exist yet that sets it apart honestly.  

I mean, you can argue that other fundraising campaigns have charged lots for virtual goods that aren't promised, but the fact that they continue to do so DOES make this a different story.  I'm sure people would be buying Hex things if Hex contrinued to sel starter decks or cards with a fancy skin at $10 a pop or something, but CZE isn't selling them, and that is a genuine difference.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 03:39:07 PM
I honestly did think I answered your question, it is just in the parallel.

Aside from some minor perks and a few weeks time saved in grinding out money there will be no material difference between myself and someone who buys the game at launch.  People who bought the cheapest package will save real world money by buying it now instead of later.

I only bought the package now because I like space games, I would like a better version of EvE and I would like to support the game.

The only thing I'm going to get if it ever sees the light of day is a little satisfaction from knowing I helped a bit by supporting it.

I donate to f13 because I like the place and the vast majority of the people, there is no tangible real world benefit, it just makes me feel good to support something I like and enjoy.

If all you bought was the cheapest package to save a few dollars, then none of this really applies to you and I don't know why you threw yourself into the thick of this conversation.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on November 21, 2013, 03:41:42 PM
The Hex comparisons don't work because Hex has steadily progressed into a real game and funding stopped being the focus after the initial rounds of funding were completed.

If Hex news was 90% "here's a new way to spend money on Hex  - also we've made basically no progress on the game" then the comparison would be valid.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 21, 2013, 03:44:43 PM
If all you bought was the cheapest package to save a few dollars, then none of this really applies to you and I don't know why you threw yourself into the thick of this conversation.
By people I meant other people, I have spent more.  Regardless I really don't know why I threw myself into this discussion either.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 03:46:51 PM
Bloodworth, I have a pile of 4 Magic cards + a half-full binder that I'm probably about to sell for about $4,000 by merely making a single phone call.

That is less than I've put into Magic in the last 5 years put together and I was ranked in the top 50 in Texas in 2012-2013 with nominal playing. I took down 2 $1ks, and top 32'd multiple $5k+ tournaments (and top 16'd 3 of them). I also have an incomplete cube worth about $15,000 (as in, I could sell it right now for $15,000) that I've put about $1,000 into, if that.

Don't talk about what you don't understand. I'm obviously in the minority of Magic players, but I don't see a way to arbitrage the secondary market of a space scam in an efficient way.

The only thing egregious about Magic is that bad players keep spending money instead of making it.

I Don't play games to make a profit, if you are going to make money out of it, cool. The Secondary market? You mean the LTI ship thing? I could care less about it, personally. Not sure how its really any different then PLEX, or Wow gold really. Things I do not participate in, but others find enjoyable.

If Hex news was 90% "here's a new way to spend money on Hex  - also we've made basically no progress on the game" then the comparison would be valid.

There has been progress. But I'm starting to think you are one of those people who things frequency of posts on a forum = Time has speed up. You like to outright look at progress on this game, and dismiss it, why would anyone try to convence you otherwise? That's not my job.

If all you bought was the cheapest package to save a few dollars, then none of this really applies to you and I don't know why you threw yourself into the thick of this conversation.

That applys to me as well, because my pledge was for two people. Again, you guys are talking to the wrong people, and attributing some sort of zealot status, when it ends up more as some sort of projection.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2013, 03:52:16 PM
I love that this has turned into a Hex v. Star Citizen defense of which idea is less silly.

Currently: both still silly.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 03:53:32 PM
How much are those pack of Hex cards again? Because, for me, the Magic/Hex/Card games are the most egregious in terms of money. I mean, its right there in the rule system that you have to continually spend money to be competitive, not just to play, but to compete. But you don't see me trolling threads about it. To each his own.

I played Magic early on when it came out (Unlimited-Fallen Empire). When I quit and sold off my cards I made back probably around 3X what I had paid. My brother who had started playing shortly before me and had a Black Lotus and all the Moxes had an even bigger return on his investment obviously. Hex is a roll of the dice in that respect but the early gameplay looked good. Before the Kickstarter had ended we were able to see Twitch streams of games actually played through to completion. If (and admittedly it's a big if) the game follows a similar path as MTG, it could end up being a fun game to play for a few years but also a decent investment a few years down the road when it's time to cash out. I'm pretty confident that even if game doesn't hit it big, as long as it doesn't tank completely I could at the very least break even or make a small profit off my account.

Cool, I'm glad. Have fun. I don't troll people for playing it. Its not my thing. I Pledged to a game with no monthly fee, a single player game, and personal, modable servers.



Anyway, you guys have fun. I'll leave you all with this again:

I'd just like to note. Its not the people actually interested in this game, who are shitting up the thread.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 21, 2013, 03:57:45 PM
Since I've been (probably) the most vocal source of fundraising info lately, I guess I owe you guys an apology if you felt this was obnoxious or just free advertisment; like I said, if it helps to calm the waters a bit, I'll gladly stop. Eventually, there will be a game to talk about too (yeah, I know, I'm naive :P).

As you might have noticed in other threads, I like posting simple news (and this kind of news is pretty much all there is to it regarding Star Citizen, unless you start writing summaries about the "forum feedback" segment during Wingman's Hangar, excerpts from the development tracker and so on...but that's the "job" of a proper fansite) about games, for example Project Eternity, sometimes Wildstar and others because....duh, I like writing these kind of posts, among other things. Yeah, I'm bizarre like that.

But hey, again, no problem if, in this case, I brought this attitude to an extreme, didn't mean to.
----



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 21, 2013, 03:59:45 PM
I love that this has turned into a Hex v. Star Citizen defense of which idea is less silly.

Currently: both still silly.

I am not sure what the discussion is about anymore really. I don't think anyone here disagrees that $1000 is crazy. Whether its a released game or not.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 21, 2013, 04:06:13 PM
Since I've been (probably) the most vocal source of fundraising info lately, I guess I owe you guys an apology if you felt this was obnoxious or just free advertisment; like I said, if it helps to calm the waters a bit, I'll gladly stop. Eventually, there will be a game to talk about too (yeah, I know, I'm naive :P).

As you might have noticed in other threads, I like posting simple news (and this kind of news is pretty much all there is to it regarding Star Citizen, unless you start writing summaries about the "forum feedback" segment during Wingman's Hangar, excerpts from the development tracker and so on...but that's the "job" of a proper fansite) about games, for example Project Eternity, sometimes Wildstar and others because....duh, I like writing these kind of posts, among other things. Yeah, I'm bizarre like that.

But hey, again, no problem if, in this case, I brought this attitude to an extreme, didn't mean to.

I don't think you have to apolgies at all. You have been probably the most constructive (IE game focused, new info) contributer in this thread. Of course details about new ships are absolutely uninteresting for someone who doesn't care about the game, but this is the Star Citizen thread after all. There are entire subforums I ignore completely (Bloodbowl, LOL) as there games there offer nothing for me. That doesn't mean I am offended by their exstience or begrudge other people posting there. So why shoudl it be different in reverse for this thread?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 04:10:01 PM
Since I've been (probably) the most vocal source of fundraising info lately, I guess I owe you guys an apology if you felt this was obnoxious or just free advertisment; like I said, if it helps to calm the waters a bit, I'll gladly stop. Eventually, there will be a game to talk about too (yeah, I know, I'm naive :P).

As you might have noticed in other threads, I like posting simple news (and this kind of news is pretty much all there is to it regarding Star Citizen, unless you start writing summaries about the "forum feedback" segment during Wingman's Hangar, excerpts from the development tracker and so on...but that's the "job" of a proper fansite) about games, for example Project Eternity, sometimes Wildstar and others because....duh, I like writing these kind of posts, among other things. Yeah, I'm bizarre like that.

But hey, again, no problem if, in this case, I brought this attitude to an extreme, didn't mean to.
----



I Used to do the same thing ( With many games ). Not anymore.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on November 21, 2013, 04:13:44 PM
I love that this has turned into a Hex v. Star Citizen defense of which idea is less silly.

Currently: both still silly.

I am not sure what the discussion is about anymore really. I don't think anyone here disagrees that $1000 is crazy. Whether its a released game or not.

I think the discussion is about a game that isn't out yet that continues to sell very expensive things for said game, and that the news regarding the selling of said ships seems to be the most notable news they are releasing about the game.

But some people seem to be taking it really personally.  I don't really care what people are spending on this.  But I do care about the fact that RSI seems to have developed a really iffy way of funding game development.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2013, 04:18:47 PM
I care for the reason that I have about every Kickstarter. I think they are the worst thing to happen to our hobby other than that XBONE Kinect advertising Big Brother in the living room shit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 21, 2013, 04:28:55 PM
I think the discussion is about a game that isn't out yet that continues to sell very expensive things for said game, and that the news regarding the selling of said ships seems to be the most notable news they are releasing about the game.

But some people seem to be taking it really personally.  I don't really care what people are spending on this.  But I do care about the fact that RSI seems to have developed a really iffy way of funding game development.

Ahh. It's not really true though that all (or even most) of the news is about selling ships. They are doing tons of podcasts and developer Q&A sessions. Of course some of it is lore talk and details about planned game mechanics, but I think it's natural that game development can't keep up to provide news if you do weekly updates. The game is scheduled to release in 2015. The dogfighting module is supposed to be shown this December, so far they are keeping their promises and IMHO it's a bit early to yell "Vaporeware!!".

About the business model, I don't see the issue really. They are very up front about ship selling being about funding the game and not buying yourself an advantage. And it's completely optional. If they weren't honest about that I'd agree and say 'Yes, that smells'. But that's not really the impression I got so far. In the end, the money has to come from somewhere...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 04:32:51 PM
You do know that those podcasts and Q&A sessions are basically time-share presentations, right?

If they stopped accepting money and just made the fucking game, this thread wouldn't be where it is.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Rasix on November 21, 2013, 04:32:55 PM
In the end, the money has to come from somewhere...

Then get it from traditional funding channels instead of continuing to bilk the obviously exploitable fan base.  It's disgusting.  

Will you at least be able to fly the damned spaceship you bought with the dogfighting module (provided it's not just Mike Vick in space)?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 21, 2013, 04:39:00 PM
Then get it from traditional funding channels instead of continuing to bilk the obviously exploitable fan base.  It's disgusting.  

Will you at least be able to fly the damned spaceship you bought with the dogfighting module (provided it's not just Mike Vick in space)?

I don't see what's bad about accepting money, but maybe I am too naive. I haven't been burned by trusting a developer...yet.  :why_so_serious:

Yes, that's the plan. As soon as the dogfight module is out you can take the ships in your hangar (and only those) out for a fight. First against AI only, netcode being implented early next year (I think, would have to look it up).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2013, 04:40:15 PM
Yeah at this point, they've proven there's a base. They've collected $30M. You can point to that customer base, go to any bank or equity source and get $30M more to finish the game.

You know why they don't? Because there's no interest and no equity-sharing in crowd funding, and the people are dumb enough to accept that. They aren't even getting a charitable donation writeoff either. The Red Cross should develop a game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 21, 2013, 04:57:43 PM
I think that Schild, Rasix, and now Paelos, with their latest posts, all perfectly summarized the issue, and you know, while I shelled out my large amount of money for the project, I tend to agree with their points, they're perfectly valid.

Yet, driven by my interest for the sub-genre, passion for videogames and more (yeah, maybe dumbness, among other things), I opened my wallet. In the end, I don't think there is a "middle ground", about this subject. I think we're reached a stall and it will be FAR more interesting to see, from now on, if they can "walk the talk" as you say in english, or if everything will crumble with Roberts flying to (real) space with his crew on a spaceship driven by Garriott (imagine that :D), with them recreating a typical FTL session  :why_so_serious:

Yeah, I know, I like to ruin the bickering fun like that  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Rasix on November 21, 2013, 05:01:11 PM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/82533/thumbsup.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 21, 2013, 05:58:23 PM
Something to read when bored: Jump Point (https://drive.google.com/?usp=chrome_app#folders/0B3xmT9bl4DChLTU5eV91YzhKYlU) a sort of monthly update about the game. Issues 1 to 16. I uploaded them on my google drive, feel free to grab.

I am just reading issue 1 and they were doing some sort of 24 hour live stream. But as the Cloud Imperium offices weren't finished yet so they do it out of....Richard Garriots rooms.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on November 21, 2013, 06:15:21 PM
...Jesus Christ, people.

I brought up Hex intending to humorously point out we've all got our pet games that we spend money on hoping they come to fruition. I don't care about Hex one way or the other, so I don't read about it. (In fact, I don't read it so much, I didn't even notice the forum had been hidden.)

Schild, I'm sorry. That's a sincere apology. I shouldn't have said any goddamn thing. I didn't think this would turn into a fucking fanboy pissing match.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on November 21, 2013, 06:27:52 PM
No. I think it's been good. We've all agreed the prices for ships are ludicrous.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 21, 2013, 06:37:06 PM
I am just reading issue 1 and they were doing some sort of 24 hour live stream. But as the Cloud Imperium offices weren't finished yet so they do it out of....Richard Garriots rooms.  :why_so_serious:

See? the plot thickens!  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 06:51:10 PM
No. I think it's been good. We've all agreed the prices for ships are ludicrous.

My message wasn't that the prices are ludicrous.

It was that people are giving over money at those prices.

The people are the problem. Chris Roberts being a pile of stinky shit isn't the problem.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Hoax on November 21, 2013, 08:21:42 PM
I think all this illustrates a point I failed badly to make many pages ago. So I'll make another very poor attempt here.

The way that Star Citizen is doing this does damage the outlook of the game if it ever does decide to try to be a real game. The way they are bilking people over and over and over for every fucking ship they model for their space game is disgusting to most people. Its a massive fucking turn off for people outside this looking in towards the company and people who are supposedly eventually going to make a game when they decide to stop running this virtual bake sale.

In addition I believe that a game's community suffers immensely when you have people who are looking down on new players because they didn't invest super elite founder status. Nothing kills the joy in a game faster than having a segment of the community who is advocating to punish new players for being new. Which will happen. Can you imagine what the outcry will be if a $200 ship is one of the starter ship choices for example? Or what if a $100 ship is a reward for a mission you get to in the first hour? Don't lie to yourself and think there wouldn't be an internet holy war over how unfair that is to the poor founders who bled for the game and made it possible aren't getting enough of a reward.

My third point against all this is, I don't really want to play an online game where these shitlords are starting with LTE and 18 ships and super plat special gimgaws. Its less fun. I remember FF11 when they put us on established JP servers that had existed for a year. The JP's rigged the economy as much as they could to take advantage of the influx of fresh characters. It was shit. If this was ever a real game, it would be much worse.

I'll stop here but fuck this Star Citizen bake sale and fuck these founder programs in general.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: lamaros on November 21, 2013, 09:05:38 PM
The problem with this thread isn't that there's a bunch of people who don't like the 'game', it's that outside of that all the posts are simple copy pastes by Lucas and bloodworth repeating 'give us more money' spiels, often verbatim.

How irrational people can get defending silly positions is somewhat engaging, I suppose.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on November 22, 2013, 03:24:51 AM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/829607/daily/16/gochrisgo.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ironwood on November 22, 2013, 03:43:33 AM
I care for the reason that I have about every Kickstarter. I think they are the worst thing to happen to our hobby other than that XBONE Kinect advertising Big Brother in the living room shit.

Yes.  Pretty much this.  Also, I've been staggered since Schild dropped the 30 Mil figure.

That's insane.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on November 22, 2013, 08:49:02 AM
So, updates detailing what progress they've made on actually coding the game = ok, but please remove all the advertising, ship sales, and stretch goal information before you post?  It's kinda like SWTOR; I was interested in the progress of the game, but hated all the cartel market advertising they kept doing.  80% of their patch notes could be thrown away because it was cartel pricing shit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 22, 2013, 09:26:35 AM
Will you at least be able to fly the damned spaceship you bought with the dogfighting module (provided it's not just Mike Vick in space)?

That's the plan. Yes. If not have the ability to fly ALL ships at that point. Even the Dog-fighting module is supposed to be released iteratively. First editions, according to developer posts will be Single-player VS AI, with multi-player to follow as they shore up the custom netcode ( instead of using out the box CryENGINE ), then it should resemble a session based ship fighting game used to test the net, the combat/flight as they move forward.

The whole system, like the hanger, is designed to get people in early to test systems. Example: The hanger was a test bed for the Launcher/patcher, Database, ship and player animations and interactions system, early version of the ship outfitting system, and login services. Not to mention scene density and performance feedback scraping.

No. I think it's been good. We've all agreed the prices for ships are ludicrous.

That happened around page 5.

Stuff....

You Can host your own server, and not be attached to any of this. You can even mod the server ( Cheats for all! ). I Think people forget, this isn't a MMO. There is a hosted Persistent world though, that the only place any of the "bought" stuff even works.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 22, 2013, 09:58:12 AM
So, updates detailing what progress they've made on actually coding the game = ok, but please remove all the advertising, ship sales, and stretch goal information before you post?  It's kinda like SWTOR; I was interested in the progress of the game, but hated all the cartel market advertising they kept doing.  80% of their patch notes could be thrown away because it was cartel pricing shit.
The bulk of the campaign ends in four days, on the 26th.  Things will slow down dramatically after that but the next few days is going to be very busy over there as all the original backers lock in their lifetime insurance ships (even though it really isn't that big of an advantage).  They have decided that the concerns about feature creep from some of the funding goals is valid so there will be no more goals that add some crazy subsystem or functionality.  Each goal reached from now on will just fund a new ship.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yoru on November 22, 2013, 10:58:05 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/fzWm8Ak.gif)

You know, whether you're starfucking him with your dick or your MasterCard, Chris Roberts don't love you back.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 22, 2013, 11:15:18 AM
I've said nothing of the sort. That's a huge mischaracterization, and exactly the type of trolling I was talking about.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on November 22, 2013, 11:40:40 AM
Each goal reached from now on will just fund a new ship.

Well they went full ponzi.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 22, 2013, 11:49:46 AM
Each goal reached from now on will just fund a new ship.

Well they went full ponzi.

lolllllllllllllllll, I totally missed that.

I like that they can't even do this right. Stop adding content you morons and finish the game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 22, 2013, 12:28:38 PM
In the last stretch goal letter, Roberts wrote this:

Quote
For our next several stretch goals, we’re going to try something different. We are constantly asked where the additional money goes. Surely new mocap hardware or a new starship design doesn’t cost a million dollars. The answer is that the stretch goals are an example: one big thing we will be doing with some of the money. Every additional million means that we’re hiring additional artists and programmers, equipping the team with better development tools and increasing the size of the talented outsource groups being trusted with aspects of Star Citizen’s development. It means more actors and time for mocap studios, more reference for designers, greater variety in game characters, more options in clothing and armor and a large array of ship items and weapons.

Every dollar improves the project. That isn’t as sexy as spending large amounts of money on impressive, headline-grabbing stretch goals… but it means a significantly better game in the end. So, for the next several stretch goals, we’re going to leave you with the knowledge that the money goes to improving all aspects of Star Citizen’s development. Instead of specifying some new development goal, we’re going to add a new ship to the game as a reward.

Now, of course, if every additional penny will go down the Curt Schilling route, they might get in trouble :P


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on November 22, 2013, 12:54:15 PM
If?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 22, 2013, 12:54:52 PM
No space dating sim then :(


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: KallDrexx on November 22, 2013, 01:03:10 PM
I'm very confused by all the motion capture talk for a game about spaceships and space fighting....


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 22, 2013, 01:08:42 PM
Well, this is one of those rare space games where you are not just a ship.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 22, 2013, 01:09:31 PM
I'm very confused by all the motion capture talk for a game about spaceships and space fighting....

Heh, that's a problem related to another matter they really need to adress: present all the info about how mechanics and system *curently* work in a MUCH MORE cohesive way; now it's all lost in old newsposts (death mechanics, economic system, FPS ground combat and avatar customization, which is the reason of motion capturing, Kall). Don't care if everything is still under discussion, they have to start presenting the bigger picture, otherwise all is bits and pieces that obviously give the idea that everything is still just ink on paper, so to speak (damn, I'm a dinosaur).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 22, 2013, 01:37:27 PM
I understand they are ambitious, as businesspeople AND as game designers, but the motion capture thing is the first one that would bite them in the arse should the game fail to deliver under any other aspect.

"WHAT! THE LASERS ARE SHITE AND THE TRACTOR BEAMS DON'T TRACT CRAP AND THE TARGETING IS WONKY AND THE ECONOMY IS A MESS.... AND THEY SPENT MILLIONS OF MY MONEY ON MOTION CAPTUREEEEEEE!?!!!!!! %&%!&$"!$&%$!%$!$&||!!!!!!!!!"

You know what I mean? Personally, I feel it was a stupid stretch goal, no matter how much did they raise, and buying a mocap studio screams of "future projects". Which is not cool.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on November 22, 2013, 01:52:25 PM
The only stretch goal they should be working on is delivering what they have already promised. That is the very definition of stretch.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on November 22, 2013, 02:06:40 PM
Heh, no. 

They use the term "stretch goal" exactly backwards:  instead of the community (or the investors) being the coaches with the whistles and the entire dev team working hard to code and meet each of the stretch goals, Chris Roberts has the whistle and he's pushing us (the investors) to donate hard and deliver more and more millions of dollars to the project. 

I'd love to see just progress reports, but currently my impression is that they're still sitting on their butts.  For every extra million that is added, they add another feature to the list of things to do at some point in the future.  It's not like, "if you guys make donations up to 31 million by Friday, we will match the effort and code the fucking flight engine, fully coded and debugged, also by Friday."  No, it's "if you make 31 million by Friday, we'll go ahead and pen in "flight engine" to the hand-written TO DO list that Roberts has on his wall."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 22, 2013, 02:33:49 PM
I think you guys are all just MAD that CHRIS ROBERTS is SO SUCCESSFUL.  And will make the BEST GAME EVER. I will get a THOUSAND DOLLARS WORTH OF GAME out of my Idris ship.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 22, 2013, 02:34:21 PM
Shutup and make us a comic for the frontpage following the exploits of Roberts Space Industries. 12 Part series, 1 every 2 weeks. Send them to me via PM. Thanks.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 22, 2013, 02:58:45 PM
man I don't know does this come packaged with LTI??


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 22, 2013, 03:25:38 PM
I would read that  :grin:

Regarding the ambition, yep, that surely is an area they don't lack. I agree that a Mocap studio wasn't really a thing they needed (plus, I'm old enough that I still bear playing games on a C64, I don't really need the latest tech), but Roberts, on that front, seem quite stuck in the "Origin glory days" (I know, I shouldn't get Schild started on that "hive of scum and villainy" that "polluted the Austin videogaming area"...or something) with the (for that time) big budget space operas and games like the later Wing Commander-s.

The "experienced developers = great game" equation of course often fails. Yep, this might be another case, we'll see. Now, 90% of those working on both projects (S42 and SC) already worked on Wing Commanders, Privateers, Starlancer and Freelancer, so I HOPE THEY HAVE A "VAGUE" IDEA of what they need to do to publish a good game on the same vein.

But of course, with publishing a game comes other business and planning decisions (plus, yes, times change, we're not in the '90s anymore), so we'll see if Chris Roberts will get the "Curt Schilling" achievement or not, bloody sock and everything.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 22, 2013, 04:39:47 PM
I understand they are ambitious, as businesspeople AND as game designers, but the motion capture thing is the first one that would bite them in the arse should the game fail to deliver under any other aspect.

"WHAT! THE LASERS ARE SHITE AND THE TRACTOR BEAMS DON'T TRACT CRAP AND THE TARGETING IS WONKY AND THE ECONOMY IS A MESS.... AND THEY SPENT MILLIONS OF MY MONEY ON MOTION CAPTUREEEEEEE!?!!!!!! %&%!&$"!$&%$!%$!$&||!!!!!!!!!"

You know what I mean? Personally, I feel it was a stupid stretch goal, no matter how much did they raise, and buying a mocap studio screams of "future projects". Which is not cool.

They explained a while ago, that this was cheaper/more cost effective than renting the space/studio time. Numbers and all. They spent $150,000 on the equipment.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 22, 2013, 04:55:19 PM
Except no one gives a fuck about motion capture in a game of this kind. A FLYING SPACE FUCK. There are too many important factors to even remotly care about the motion capture. So it could have costed 1 dollar or five trillion dollars and it would still be wasted money until you can prove that all the other things you have promised to be amazing actually happen to be.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 22, 2013, 04:58:33 PM
Except no one gives a fuck about motion capture in a game of this kind. A FLYING SPACE FUCK. There are too many important factors to even remotly care about the motion capture. So it could have costed 1 dollar or five trillion dollars and it would still be wasted money until you can prove that all the other things you have promised to be amazing actually happen to be.

You can get out of your ship. This is not Eve. No one gives a fuck except those interested in space sim that allows you to get out of your ship. Its all part of the game.

Update videos about it.

Star Citizen - Behind the scenes with the Motion Capture (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBJA4yjzSPI)

Inside Cloud Imperium Games . Mocap Update . Bryan Brewer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa1gyzNfy9k)

Its been part of the game-play since before it was announced, and game-play was shown in 2012 GDC.

Star Citizen - Gameplay (GDC 2012)  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92rb-8mYHE0)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 22, 2013, 05:01:51 PM
Just posted on the official website: presentation of the "Foundry 42" team, in charge of the single-player game, SQ42. Most of them were on the Starlancer and Privateer 2 teams that, yeah, we can say were the "weaker" titles of the entire Roberts catalogue (although both titles didn't really have Roberts at the helm).

Around the 1:29 mark, you can see what I assume is an early written draft of (possibly) the opening sequence of the game...Or maybe just a random cutscene.

http://youtu.be/V8jfVhjC2Xs


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samwise on November 22, 2013, 06:41:45 PM
Except no one gives a fuck about motion capture in a game of this kind. A FLYING SPACE FUCK. There are too many important factors to even remotly care about the motion capture. So it could have costed 1 dollar or five trillion dollars and it would still be wasted money until you can prove that all the other things you have promised to be amazing actually happen to be.

You can get out of your ship. This is not Eve. No one gives a fuck except those interested in space sim that allows you to get out of your ship. Its all part of the game.

Update videos about it.

This would be a great time for you to use your words to provide a summary of what gameplay is available outside of your ship, so that people who don't give a fuck can at least understand why somebody else might.  Ain't nobody got time to click on a bunch of YouTube videos and watch them all the way through when a couple of quick sentences could convey the desired information.

Have I posted this in this thread yet?  Somebody was saying something about the proven track record of the people behind this scam and this is what came to mind.

(http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/i-jbBQTJT/0/950x10000/i-jbBQTJT-950x10000.jpg)



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on November 22, 2013, 09:22:43 PM
I think you guys are all just MAD that CHRIS ROBERTS is SO SUCCESSFUL.  And will make the BEST GAME EVER. I will get a THOUSAND DOLLARS WORTH OF GAME out of my Idris ship.

The end of 2014 will be a glorious time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 22, 2013, 09:50:17 PM
Except no one gives a fuck about motion capture in a game of this kind. A FLYING SPACE FUCK. There are too many important factors to even remotly care about the motion capture. So it could have costed 1 dollar or five trillion dollars and it would still be wasted money until you can prove that all the other things you have promised to be amazing actually happen to be.
You can't really make a 3D game with human models without motion capture these days.  It is expected, anything else looks like janky wolfenstien era crap.  The costs have come down so much that if you have enough animation that needs to be modeled it's probably cheaper than trying to get animators to poorly imitate what the motion would like frame by frame.

As stated this isn't EvE.  You are a person not a ship.  You have to walk to your ship, climb into it, sit down, manipulate controls.  They need animation for all of that, animation for combat with guns (personal guns not ships), animation for hopping into sleeping pods, animation for jumping into and using turrets.  There are ships in the game that take a dozen crew members, there are carrier ships that have other ships in them that you have to run to and jump in.  There is also an entire single player game with characters, plot, cut scenes etc that they have to complete.

If they weren't using motion capture everyone would criticize about how "Holy crap you mean they have thirty million but can't spare a couple hundred grand so that the animations don't look like shit lololol".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 22, 2013, 09:52:46 PM
I think you guys are all just MAD that CHRIS ROBERTS is SO SUCCESSFUL.  And will make the BEST GAME EVER. I will get a THOUSAND DOLLARS WORTH OF GAME out of my Idris ship.

The end of 2014 will be a glorious time.

I know I should let that argument die, but this is really puzzles me. I always thought the "This is a SCAAM!!" people were being tongue-in-cheek. Do you really think it's not coming out?

The worst possible scenario I can imagine is the MWO one, potentially fun game (wee Mechs!) ruined by a totally inept design team that seems to be in over their head (both manpower and actually skill wise) , whacky balance (boating, PPC), stupid solutions to fix those problems and on top of that bad netcode and basic features that never materlise (Is there UI 2.0 out yet? Directx 11?).

While I personally don't expect that, this outcome its possible. But, in MWO's case I still played it over 300+ hours,  spent >150$ on the mechs and enjoyed it immensely. So what is the terrible that thing that I have to be afraid of regarding SC?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 22, 2013, 11:07:54 PM
My actual for serious guess is that it will probably go through one or two token delays, have lots of extreme (but transparent) foibles as they test out dogfighting and see what happens when their grand schemes get traduced down to the most mechanically efficient ways to cheese, go through a Great Contraction where they have to scramble to scale back their ambitious plans into a working model, and by then we'll know from the modules if its going to be a good, ok, or shit game, and we can hedge our bets on the apoplexy of the insane backers on that measure.

I'll make comics until i have a ship.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 22, 2013, 11:33:41 PM
So what is the terrible that thing that I have to be afraid of regarding SC?

You have no recourse whatsoever if this thing doesn't even get released on schedule, with any of the features promised, or with any of the items promised.

See if you bought a product, you'd have consumer protection laws. Or if you were an investor you'd have the right to sue for fraud. Or if you were a banker you'd be entitled to recourse on your money through legal means.

None of that exists with these things. It's literally the worst possible way ever to get something done. If a game can't get made on its own merits without turning into a welfare case, it doesn't deserve to exist.

Oh and what's worse? If the gaming world sees this as viable, we all get fucked right on down the river. They already look for ways to screw over gamers because they know for a fact the majority of us are walking wallets with no sense of financial responsibility, but for the ones who actually have a problem with this kind of thing, our only recourse is to leave the hobby until the sheep stop getting sheared, and start getting gutted.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 23, 2013, 12:13:35 AM
So what is the terrible that thing that I have to be afraid of regarding SC?

You have no recourse whatsoever if this thing doesn't even get released on schedule, with any of the features promised, or with any of the items promised.

See if you bought a product, you'd have consumer protection laws. Or if you were an investor you'd have the right to sue for fraud. Or if you were a banker you'd be entitled to recourse on your money through legal means.

None of that exists with these things. It's literally the worst possible way ever to get something done. If a game can't get made on its own merits without turning into a welfare case, it doesn't deserve to exist.


I totally agree with these points, but doesn't that apply to any sort of Kickstarter type crowdfunding? You actually said in this thread you disapprove of gaming Kickstarters, which I why understand your reasoning the most. SC funding is very much Kickstarter expanded so this is only a consequent position.

Maybe others feel that way too, but so far I thought the crowdfunding/kickstarter idea was very well received on this forum, with various people pledging for different games, so the derisviness in this thread took me a bit by surprise.

I am totally aware that to a big degree I am trusting for an idea to work out, but overall I don't see much difference to Day 1 purchase I got burned with. DA2 was a full price purchase, turned out I hated it from the tutorial onward and 5-6 hours later I dropped it. I don't see that happening here...even the most stale FPS/flying SIM/space SIM will get dozens of hours of out me.

And again, we are not talking about 1000$ pledge people, which I feel are becoming a bit of a straw man here.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on November 23, 2013, 03:08:09 AM
Why are they pushing so many polygons is my question. My guess is so it runs like crap for everyone.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Velorath on November 23, 2013, 04:28:35 AM
So what is the terrible that thing that I have to be afraid of regarding SC?

You have no recourse whatsoever if this thing doesn't even get released on schedule, with any of the features promised, or with any of the items promised.

See if you bought a product, you'd have consumer protection laws. Or if you were an investor you'd have the right to sue for fraud. Or if you were a banker you'd be entitled to recourse on your money through legal means.

None of that exists with these things. It's literally the worst possible way ever to get something done. If a game can't get made on its own merits without turning into a welfare case, it doesn't deserve to exist.


I totally agree with these points, but doesn't that apply to any sort of Kickstarter type crowdfunding? You actually said in this thread you disapprove of gaming Kickstarters, which I why understand your reasoning the most. SC funding is very much Kickstarter expanded so this is only a consequent position.

Maybe others feel that way too, but so far I thought the crowdfunding/kickstarter idea was very well received on this forum, with various people pledging for different games, so the derisviness in this thread took me a bit by surprise.

I am totally aware that to a big degree I am trusting for an idea to work out, but overall I don't see much difference to Day 1 purchase I got burned with. DA2 was a full price purchase, turned out I hated it from the tutorial onward and 5-6 hours later I dropped it. I don't see that happening here...even the most stale FPS/flying SIM/space SIM will get dozens of hours of out me.

And again, we are not talking about 1000$ pledge people, which I feel are becoming a bit of a straw man here.

I'm more or less ok with Kickstarters, but whenever I've seen a Kickstarter project that needs to do a second round of funding (aside from slacker backer packages or simple pre-orders) it always sends up a red flag to me. It shows that maybe the scope of the project was too ambitious, or the people in charge just sucked at budgeting. Star Citizen has had a non-stop year-long second round of funding with some of the most aggressive salesmanship I've ever seen when I watch the youtube videos of some of those ships being announced. I know Bloodworth will say something about how the Kickstarter amount was really just for some proof of concept kinda thing and that the real game was always going to cost this much, but why shouldn't they have just stopped at the proof of concept at first and then proven that they had a fucking concept?

The sheer scope of what they're promising would be difficult for even big publishers and developers to pull off let alone a guy whose best work is close to two decades ago. They're already breaking this thing up into modules so instead of saying "hey let's take as much money from you guys up front as we possibly can and we'll give you a space simulator with a single player story mode, a persistent multiplayer game, you can get out of the ships and walk around and fight on foot, and we'll make all these ships, and do all this mo-cap work, etc..." why didn't they just say "hey, were're going to put out this dog-fighting module so you guys can see the core gameplay and if that's good then we'll start funding something more ambitious stuff, or we might even be able to sell enough of this dog-fighting game to non-backers that you guys don't have to take the whole financial burden upon yourselves".

They don't need the extra money at this point and they certainly don't need to keep squeezing it out of their loyal fans right now when it's been pointed out that they should be able to get funding from other sources if they find they really need it. Now they're just taking money from you guys because they can. They're doing it because every time they offer a new ship people lap that shit up so they're just going to keep riding the gravy train until it goes off the rails. They're at the point where they can't even offer reasonable details on how continued funding actually benefits the game it's just "we'll hire some more people and add some more ships in". Maybe at one point Chris Roberts really did just want to make a Space sim, and when I first heard about the project it sounded like something I might like to play. It's taken on such an air of them viewing their customers as open wallets full of free money they get to play with though that I wouldn't even touch this game now.

Many people dislike EA because of how it's perceived that they view their customers. That's more or less how I feel about these guys. The fact that they've then got a lot of their fans happily posting links for them on forums like this advertising the cool new $250 ship that just got announced or whatever just makes it that much worse. It's a similar feeling as the one I get when I see the Free Stress Test table set up outside the grocery store or in the mall.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: KallDrexx on November 23, 2013, 07:43:15 AM
And again, we are not talking about 1000$ pledge people, which I feel are becoming a bit of a straw man here.

You can't just hand wave high spenders as a straw man.  Normally released games cost $60.  People who spend $20-30 on a kickstarter is no big deal because they are essentially pre-ordering a game at a reasonable price.  However, SC is different because if you look at their store and their website they aren't getting their millions of dollars from $20-30 donations, people are paying upwards of $150 for spaceships for a game they've seen very little gameplay with.  You can find real proof of a lot of people spending a LOT of money on this game (and a lot post kick-starter) which makes the high spenders very much a non-strawman.

I also agree with Velorath.  Most companies suck at making single player games and most companies suck at making MMOs.  MMOs alone are ridiculously hard and expensive.  It's hard to find numbers for most MMOs but Rift's executives say it cost $50 million to create, Curt Shilling (while an idiot for other reasons too) went bankrupt trying to finance an MMO, etc...  Even those games are not in the same vein as SC it's still applicable and shows that they are hard to succeed in.  So now you have promises of both an amazing singleplayer game but also an amazing MMO.  Not only that they are proposing making both an amazing space dogfighting game, economy game, and a first person shooter all in one go.  If they were planning to stagger the release 2-3 games out of it, each full games with a natural progression between them, then I would actually be a lot more inclined to think that their ambitions could be realized but instead they are trying to do everything at one time and not really giving them the chance to fully release a game and see where they went wrong and gather post-mortems for the next spot (the modules don't count because they are singular modules and don't test integration between systems).

You guys keep talking about motion capture being necessary and yet this forum always laughed when Eve was talking about allowing you to walk in stations.  The new X game added walk in stations and everyone absolutely hates it (and no, better animations wouldn't have made it better because it's utterly pointless and pain in the ass). 

Finally, it seems that everyone forgets that we are way out of the age of the gaming rockstar.  Most of the well known game designers from years past who made a name for themselves have not really adapted well, and most of them that have put their names to products recently have not done very well.  It doesn't bode well either that Chris Roberts has been out of game development for so long and then decided to come back and yet everyone thinks he'll be space jesus.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on November 23, 2013, 08:06:00 AM


Maybe others feel that way too, but so far I thought the crowdfunding/kickstarter idea was very well received on this forum, with various people pledging for different games, so the derisviness in this thread took me a bit by surprise.

It's already been said, but it boils down to the feeling that the development of the game has become a vehicle for selling ships.  It seems like the news people get "excited" for (not just here mind you, I'm part of another community with some die hard SC fans) is "Another ship I can buy!" rather than someone that actually has to do with development progress.  I guess people got excited for the hangar module, but people walked around for 15 minutes and then went back to thinking about which ships they could buy to they could look at them in their hangar.


If the kickstarter ended and that was that, I don't think anyone would care.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 23, 2013, 08:59:05 AM
This is how the most recent Star Citizen newsletter looks like covering the last FIVE days. Out of 10 topics 7 are about money and ship sales: "Rare chances", "Limited editions" and "Crown Jewels!". 1 is about lore, 1 is about community, 1 is probably about graphics.

Get it?

It's not f13 that is sinking contents into a bickering thread. It's them, they are sinking it into their stupid greed.
The probem is, they baited you into thinking that the fact they are so focused on sales is a GOOD THING for the game and it means it will just be a better product thanks to the additional money. This is the very nature of a Ponzi scheme, isn't it? Convincing you, basically, that carpet bombing/advertising bring benefits to everyone, and turning everyone who invested into a believer and pretty much hiring you for free as agents who will spread out free advertising for the company. But the only one benefitting from the sales is the top of the pyramid and as in any scheme of this kind it works because everyone else who is not the top of the pyramid refuses to see this, blinded by hopes of an ultimate gain (in this case the 'gain' is the game ame not just delivering, but becoming better and better).

That newsletter is an insult. Roberts needs someone to tell him to stop this bullshit. But instead every time you don't tell Roberts to stop the fucking push for new ships and limited editions you are looking like fools who have invested too much to admit this is ridiculous and unacceptable, and are at the same time buying into his idea that the more money HE makes the better the game is going to be. Which makes no sense, especially with already more than 25M in the bank. Make the fuckin game already, if it's any good you can ask for more money later. Hell, can't wait to throw money at a great space multiplayer sandbox myself if it ever gets released.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3584773/Star%20Citizen%20newsletter.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 23, 2013, 09:16:36 AM
Uff, I think you guys worried about the game are already more involved than those who pre-orderd. I am the only one left "arguing" and I am not really doing that either, I just wanted to understand what the some peoples issues where exactly.

Edit:
Quote
The probem is, they baited you into thinking that the fact they are so focused on sales is a GOOD THING for the game and it means it will just be a better product thanks to the additional money. This is the very nature of a Ponzi scheme, isn't it? Convincing you, basically, that carpet bombing/advertising bring benefits to everyone, and turning everyone who invested into a believer and pretty much hiring you for free as agents who will spread out free advertising for the company. But the only one benefitting from the sales is the top of the pyramid and as in any scheme of this kind it works because everyone else who is not the top of the pyramid refuses to see this, blinded by hopes of an ultimate gain (in this case the 'gain' is the game ame not just delivering, but becoming better and better).
Ok, that is just pure projecting and ascribing motivations to people.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 23, 2013, 09:30:57 AM
Then why are you not annoyed at all the money stuff?

EDIT: Also, I don't question anyone's motivations. I think your objective judgement (about the business model) is held hostage by your massive hopes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 23, 2013, 09:52:13 AM
This is how the most recent Star Citizen newsletter looks like covering the last FIVE days. Out of 10 topics 7 are about money and ship sales: "Rare chances", "Limited editions" and "Crown Jewels!". 1 is about lore, 1 is about community, 1 is probably about graphics.

Get it?
Again, the main campaign ends in three days.  All of those ships are ones that despite being a "ponzi scheme" are not typically available for purchase, they are bringing them back for these last few days before the original backers' perks expire and trust me, the original backers want to know about them.  Even if you don't want to spend any more money right now is your last chance to sell back ships you already own and buy one of these (which you can do).  So if you always wanted the Gladiator but didn't get to buy one you can swap it out for the Freelancer you settled on.

You are looking at the last frantic gasp of activity before things settle down, the 26th is going to be bonkers.  This isn't the ideal time to form opinions about money, it would be like going to a mall on black Friday and assuming every day must be that nuts.

Then why are you not annoyed at all the money stuff?

EDIT: Also, I don't question anyone's motivations. I think your objective judgement (about the business model) is held hostage by your massive hopes.
Why would I care about how other people spend their money?  It's not like they're putting a gun to anyone's head.  Unless you seriously think this is a ponzi scheme in which Roberts has a swiss bank account that he is funneling the money into why would you care what a bunch of overly optimistic fans donate to?  I'm always amazed and stunned that they keep getting more people and more money, I never imagined so many people out there also wanted a half decent persistent space sim.  There are like 310,000 backers now.

And I don't have massive hopes.  My expectation is that a year or two after it launches it will be a better game than EvE.  "Better game than EvE" is a really low bar.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Job601 on November 23, 2013, 10:19:57 AM
I anticipate this game having terrible performance and major technical problems. I saw the quote where Roberts said that this would be a old school "pc" game -- well, I remember the era of PC games before console ports took over.  A big part of what made companies like id and blizzard popular was that their games actually worked, while EA and Origin would consistently shoot for the moon performance-wise and end up putting out buggy messes.  I'll make a prediction now:  no matter how good the design is, the story about this game in the first six months after its release is going to be about game-breaking hardware requirements and bugs.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 23, 2013, 10:23:21 AM
Unless you seriously think this is a ponzi scheme in which Roberts has a swiss bank account that he is funneling the money into why would you care what a bunch of overly optimistic fans donate to?

I do honestly believe this is in the realm of possibility, given the updates and marketing involved.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 23, 2013, 10:48:48 AM
I anticipate this game having terrible performance and major technical problems.

I Personally believe the method they are using for development will minimize this. The iterative release to the public/backers in theory is more manageable then tossing out an entire game at once and THEN working out how to address issues. Its already happened with the Hanger module. They test, profile and correct at every step, and backers are able to see every bit of it, and test in a "live" environment. The machine they own.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 23, 2013, 11:51:27 AM
I anticipate this game having terrible performance and major technical problems. I saw the quote where Roberts said that this would be a old school "pc" game -- well, I remember the era of PC games before console ports took over.  A big part of what made companies like id and blizzard popular was that their games actually worked, while EA and Origin would consistently shoot for the moon performance-wise and end up putting out buggy messes.  I'll make a prediction now:  no matter how good the design is, the story about this game in the first six months after its release is going to be about game-breaking hardware requirements and bugs.

Quite likely, in a good and a bad way. Good in the sense that it might replace Crysis as the benchmarking game du jour, something to drive up hardware sales and push some boundaries. PC gaming has been held back quite a bit by the need to be console portable, especially the last years with the current consoles being ever more apart from a modern high end gaming setup. Even the "next gen" ones are graphic performance wise only on a rough level with Radeon 7750. Meh!

In the "its buggy" sense (which I think was what you meant) I agree. Besides the "OMG Ponzi scheme" hysterics here (yes, I said it) there was another argument insofar that they are promising quite a lot, biting of more than they can chew. That's a fear that holds some merit (imho), so them pushing it out in an unoptimized, buggy state wouldn't surprise me.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 23, 2013, 02:56:05 PM
A primary, legitimate concern is that cryengine hasn't been used on a game like this before.  The human model planetside, space station, hangar stuff will work fine because cryengine has a lot of solid work there but trying to use it as a basis for space ships is unproven territory.  The 3D models look great sitting on a hangar floor but actually flying is a whole other ball game.  If the game winds up being a completely broken piece of garbage I'm predicting it will mostly be because they weren't able to make cryengine work with very fast moving large objects in zero gravity.  My concern is that it will wind up being like the Hero engine in that it needs so much work and customization that it turns out to be an unworkable nightmare.

Quite frankly we will probably know within three months if the game will sink or swim.  The initial release of the dog fighting module next month will be really rough and if they can't fix it with patches the game is doomed.

That said they had no choice but to use someone else's graphic 3D engine.  Even with thirty million they wouldn't be able to code their own.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 23, 2013, 03:33:02 PM
Honestly we can all be eye to eye on this more than we think. We like to discuss games, not the neverending telethon before the game

We have people on the lines right now to accept your call, it's your funding that make this possible, all this great programming, carl, just tell us about what these kickstarter funds make possible. Tell us what new backers get if they pledge at or above this level.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samwise on November 23, 2013, 04:31:40 PM
That said they had no choice but to use someone else's graphic 3D engine.  Even with thirty million they wouldn't be able to code their own.

 :uhrr:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ironwood on November 23, 2013, 05:48:28 PM
I have one you can have for five million.

It's in the Garage.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on November 23, 2013, 07:12:54 PM
Quote
Good in the sense that it might replace Crysis as the benchmarking game du jour, something to drive up hardware sales and push some boundaries. PC gaming has been held back quite a bit by the need to be console portable,

PC gaming isn't held back by the graphics.
PC gaming is held back by the XBOX/PS controller.




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Quinton on November 23, 2013, 07:26:22 PM
That said they had no choice but to use someone else's graphic 3D engine.  Even with thirty million they wouldn't be able to code their own.

As much as their endless fundraising by selling crazy-expensive exclusive ships strikes me as laughable, there are plenty of serious AAA projects with far larger budgets than 30M which did not build the 3d engine from scratch.  Building a modern, all-bells-and-whistles 3d engine from scratch, integrating a content pipeline, ensuring it works with a wide range of video cards, and performance tuning it is a huge undertaking.  Licensing an engine seems like a completely reasonable choice.  It does, as others point out, run the risk of the engine not being a good fit for what you're trying to build.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on November 23, 2013, 07:42:26 PM
I'd be surprised if CryEngine is an issue. If they aren't competent enough to make CryEngine work for this kind of game then they aren't competent enough to make their own engine either.

Space games are pretty easy to make in some ways - you have almost no level design, pathing is simple, rigid objects are easy to animate. If anything it seems like the problem they are having with CryEngine right now is "hey, CryEngine is pretty good at making FPS games, so why don't we put some FPS gameplay into this?"

I suspect the big problem is going to be that it just doesn't come together as a game. Right now they have all these fertile imaginations about how are all these different kinds of ships are going to work together to form an interesting and coherent space game, but there's a good chance that when they put everything together it's going to turn out that half the ships are useless or don't make sense in the context of the gameplay that emerges.

Rather than coming up with the basics of a game and saying "ground installations are very important in our implementation, so maybe we should make a couple of cool bombing ships that specialize in taking out structures" it's more "guys I had a cool idea for a bomber that I drew on a napkin, let's model it and imagine the fun you'll have bombing stuff!"

Creating a series of vertical slices and smushing them together is not a good way to make a game, nor is creating a bunch of ships before you have any real way to use them in-engine.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Quinton on November 23, 2013, 08:45:18 PM
I'd be surprised if CryEngine is an issue. If they aren't competent enough to make CryEngine work for this kind of game then they aren't competent enough to make their own engine either.

Space games are pretty easy to make in some ways - you have almost no level design, pathing is simple, rigid objects are easy to animate. If anything it seems like the problem they are having with CryEngine right now is "hey, CryEngine is pretty good at making FPS games, so why don't we put some FPS gameplay into this?"

That's a good point -- if your space game depends on some kind of huge static level design you're doing it wrong and if not it's not exactly rocket science to do some basic identification of local/relevant objects (in, as you point out, a generally very sparse "world") and letting the engine handle those -- after all a modern engine is going to have reasonable LOD and asset cache management.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 23, 2013, 11:05:44 PM
IIRCC, they never said "we can't make one" they said "Middle ware engines are able to do what we need now". The GDC game play was all in engine. So, it looks like they already have flight/space in and working way back then. I'm sure it needs refinement, he said as much.

It also does not hurt that for the most part, they have made this game before, with Freelancer. Microsoft cut it down though.

Rather than coming up with the basics of a game and saying "ground installations are very important in our implementation, so maybe we should make a couple of cool bombing ships that specialize in taking out structures" it's more "guys I had a cool idea for a bomber that I drew on a napkin, let's model it and imagine the fun you'll have bombing stuff!"

Bombers are for Capital ships. For the most part, they are following the Wing commander/freelancer system as far as ships go and what eats what, from what I can see.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Azazel on November 24, 2013, 01:12:00 AM
:ye_gods:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on November 24, 2013, 08:06:35 AM
I don't think this is a scam. I've got personal concerns with crowdfunding that pushes the financial risk off the people who will financially benefit from a successful outcome and onto its customer base. You need some crowdsourced money to finish a game you've been working on, ala FTL? Okay, that's good. You want to fund an entire AAA title using a system that actively rewards promoting the biggest scope and largest number of features you can possibly fit in a game by getting players to pay for pre-pre-pre-alpha? No, that rubs me the wrong way.

Plus SC has promised a lot of features. Players are rightly going to be pissed that they payed for a $150 space ship only to find that the feature set they thought they were getting are aren't there when SC launches. And we haven't even got into gameplay balancing or in-game economy or a host of other features that trip up every title.

Even assuming that it's cheaper for an indie to develop a title than a publisher-backed studio (due to less oversight, less management) SC is going to need to keep earning money from pre-selling things if they are going to develop based on their scope. They have 12 months of development left, including the launch. They are spending the money they are getting. So more things are going to be put up for sale all the way up to launch (unless SC starts taking on investors / publishers, which will just send SC backers INSANE).

But regardless, I'm watching SC as an example of a title that promises players the BEST GAME EVAH based on the reputation of a developer who hasn't done anything in games for a while now. F13 mocks MMOs for promising the Moon and eventually - late and over-budget - delivering a slightly damaged paper mache sphere. SC is on target to fall into the same traps.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: satael on November 24, 2013, 08:32:49 AM
I haven't been following this too closely so I'm a bit unsure as to where all the ships you pay for now are used since it's not a MMO and contains a single player game (and privately hosted servers if I understood correctly)?



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 24, 2013, 08:38:06 AM
I haven't been following this too closely so I'm a bit unsure as to where all the ships you pay for now are used since it's not a MMO and contains a single player game (and privately hosted servers if I understood correctly)?

In Star Citizen itself - which is also refered to the as PU (persistent universe). I don't think they will be available in the single player part (dubbed Squadron 42) as that's a linear story based Wing Commander game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on November 24, 2013, 10:55:13 AM
I haven't been following this too closely so I'm a bit unsure as to where all the ships you pay for now are used since it's not a MMO and contains a single player game (and privately hosted servers if I understood correctly)?



I've heard some stuff about privately hosted servers too, but can't find information about it.  Can anyone elaborate?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 24, 2013, 11:05:30 AM
I haven't been following this too closely so I'm a bit unsure as to where all the ships you pay for now are used since it's not a MMO and contains a single player game (and privately hosted servers if I understood correctly)?



I've heard some stuff about privately hosted servers too, but can't find information about it.  Can anyone elaborate?

You can host your own PU, and mod it. That's the only info at the moment.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on November 24, 2013, 12:28:49 PM
I don't think this is a scam.

I think few KS projects are outright scams but the majority of them play fast and loose with the money they get or are for projects they know in their heart-of-hearts are vastly over-promising. When you get a bunch of free money free from obligations at no point do you really have to consider things like budget, scope and schedule.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Speedy Cerviche on November 24, 2013, 01:17:43 PM

That said they had no choice but to use someone else's graphic 3D engine.  Even with thirty million they wouldn't be able to code their own.

These guys raised like $60,000 and are doing their own 3d graphic engine...

http://melee.org/


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on November 24, 2013, 01:51:11 PM
It's funny though, moral hazard is considered a big thing in economics and whatnot, yet in Kickstarter nobody even considers it. I guess it takes a Curt Schilling to pull the wool.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samwise on November 24, 2013, 01:55:21 PM
I made a 3D game engine for an undergrad CS class.  It wasn't a whizbang Crytek engine or anything, but the basics are not hard any more.

Guns of Icarus got $35k from their kickstarter, and they have a working (and very fun) game with ships you can walk around on AND pilot with other people.  (They used Unity.)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Merusk on November 24, 2013, 03:01:21 PM

That said they had no choice but to use someone else's graphic 3D engine.  Even with thirty million they wouldn't be able to code their own.

These guys raised like $60,000 and are doing their own 3d graphic engine...

http://melee.org/

Hey now, nobody claimed it was 100% for financial reasons.  All those salesmen and artists cost a lot and no matter how much you pay them to code they can't do it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on November 24, 2013, 03:23:51 PM
That said they had no choice but to use someone else's graphic 3D engine.  Even with thirty million they wouldn't be able to code their own.

IIRCC, they never said "we can't make one" they said "Middle ware engines are able to do what we need now". The GDC game play was all in engine.

Off the top of my head I can name three full-fledged MMORPGs that shipped with budgets under $20 million, including original and proprietary client engines and server architectures. EDIT: And all "first-time projects" from their teams as well.

None of them are anywhere close to SC's level of graphical whizbangery, of course.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Quinton on November 24, 2013, 05:04:24 PM
Yeah, my assumption on "you'd almost certainly license an engine" was based on the assumption that they want super-fancy, shiny, pull-out-all-the-stops, latest-generation rendering features, and sufficient performance that you can get a reasonable number of those super-shiny ships on screen at once.  Certainly you could build a much simpler engine from scratch for less.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on November 25, 2013, 10:30:40 AM
Quote
Good in the sense that it might replace Crysis as the benchmarking game du jour, something to drive up hardware sales and push some boundaries. PC gaming has been held back quite a bit by the need to be console portable,

PC gaming isn't held back by the graphics.
PC gaming is held back by the XBOX/PS controller.


PC gaming is held back by business interests. A lot easier to have centralized QC when you control the hardware and the storefront. And when I say "easier", I mean "justify from a business POV". Because without benefitting from licensing residuals and software rev share, it's nigh impossible to get resources to centralize QC from management. Why should they care when it doesn't hit the top nor bottom line? This is whitespace from which ID and Blizzard and then Steam all entered... and then passed through on their way to consoles.

Apple did not develop from scratch a hardware / app store model the rest of the mobile industry picked up.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 25, 2013, 04:17:23 PM
Tomorrow there will be a 4-hour livestream for the last day of the LTI ships sale, starting at 11am PST (8pm CET). Beside the final sale of previously unreleased ships, apparently we're gonna get a first look at new stuff they've been working on. Fingers crossed for a preview of the dogfighting module in action (and who knows, maybe a tentative release date for it.).

The channel to watch should be this (the same they use for Wingman's Hangar):

http://it.twitch.tv/roberts_space_ind_ch_1

(maybe they'll add more, plus a Youtube video channel).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 25, 2013, 06:41:37 PM
I think that sums up the debate:  :grin:


(http://i.imgur.com/H1zV0ak.png)

I made that myself! With the Photoshop Paint.Net!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 25, 2013, 06:43:52 PM
Needs to be surrounded by $$$$$$$$ on the borders.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on November 25, 2013, 07:25:02 PM
I was ahead of the curve, and also retro. (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=22591.msg1125844#msg1125844)

Which makes me a double-hipster!  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: lamaros on November 25, 2013, 08:33:30 PM
Hipsters are ahead of any curves?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 25, 2013, 09:12:43 PM
Hes a profit!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 25, 2013, 11:37:07 PM
:(


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Rasix on November 26, 2013, 01:36:14 AM
Man, I hope that was intentional.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 26, 2013, 02:41:53 AM
Quote
PLEASE NOTE: due to FinCEN regulations, packages over $1,000 can not be gifted. This includes the Idris-P corvette, so do not purchase one expecting to transfer it to another account! You can check for Idris availability here.

4 rounds of 100 Idris ships being sold across the day. Watch me be completely unsurprised when they sell out.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 26, 2013, 06:03:17 AM
Nice, I like the look of the "Merchantman" ship of the Banu race:


Hopefully, with the transition to the in-engine version, the ship will keep its coolness :)
----

Regarding how the official persistent universe server of SC will function, in case you missed it, here's a portion of a post quoted by Bloodworth about a year ago. I think it might be of some interest in order to post some more gameplay-oriented stuff. Mind you, it's not for the tl;dr crew :P. Of course things may have changed during the last twelve months, although I think the basic approach will stay the same.

Quote
But me being me, I wanted to combine things I like about the promise of a MMO, but avoid the aspects that I’m not so keen on like splintered player groups, griefing and grinding. I also was really impressed with how Demon’s Souls merged the single player experience with the multiplayer side.

 

All of this helped form my thinking on how Star Citizen is going to balance the difficult balancing act between multiplayer and single player.

All multiplayer games – whether they are a persistent world massively multiplayer game (MMO) like World of Warcraft or just an online multiplayer game like Battlefield 3 – have a limit to the number of players that can be active in anyone area or level. This number is usually inversely proportional to the amount of data that needs to go between the client and the server. For a game with complex physics and a fully destructible terrain, like Battlefield 3 the number of players that can active in an instance is less than a game with less real time fidelity like WoW, or Eve on Line.  But in all cases there are always more players than any one server instance can handle. For a persistent multiplayer world like WoW the solution is to split up the player base into more manageable groups called “shards”, which are a permanent instance of the universe that look after a certain amount of players.

One thing I don’t like about most MMO structures is the fragmentation of the player base between these “shards”. If you had joined much later than a friend of yours, there may not be room on his world instance anymore and you have to join another parallel one and so cannot play together. This is one of the nice things about the Eve Online design – everyone plays in the same universe.

In Star Citizen there is going to be one persistent universe server that everyone exists on. So you will never be separated from your friends, and if you want you’ll be able to join up and adventure together, you can.  Due to the fidelity of the dogfighting and physics simulation we can’t however handle thousands of players in the same area of space. Even if you had enough internet bandwidth to handle the data going back and forth and a super computer for the server there’s no PC, even with quad SLI that could render that many spaceships with Star Citizen’s fidelity.

So the “magic” of Star Citizen’s multiplayer design is how we combine a persistent universe with a more traditional (and easier to implement) temporary multiplayer “battle” instance.

The way it works is that the persistent universe server, which we’re calling the Galaxy Server, keeps track of all players’ assets, group relationships and locations inside the Star Citizen universe. As the Galaxy server isn’t handling any realtime action it can handle our complete player base, which right now would be about 45,000 players, but is designed to be able to scale to millions if need be. The other key thing the Galaxy Server does is dynamically place players based on their location, skill level, alignment and player versus player (PvP) preference into battle instances. Think of a “battle” instance like a Battlefield 3 multiplayer session or a World of Tanks Battle with the key difference that the selection of players is done transparently and is “in fiction”.

An illustration of how this would work is like this –

I start out planet side on New Pittsburg. I decide to buy a few tonnes of steel to fly to the shipyards of Terra. I’m currently in the hands of the galaxy server that communicates with my client and handles my purchases and interactions on the planet as these are not real time in the manner that the space action is. We render these in the manner of Freelancer, as detailed 3D environments where we see a third person view of our character in a location and we can click on Non Player Characters (NPCs) or terminals to buy / sell, upgrade your ship, get gossip, hear about a mission and so on.  You’ll also be able to interact with other players via a chat interface. We haven’t fully worked out the player avatar handling planet side but the bar or private clubs will be where you can meet / chat to other players. Besides populating the bar with NPCs, the game will also populate the bar with other players. If there are more players planet side than there are slots of avatars in the bar the ones visible to you will be based off your friends list and then it will be based on relevance to you – a player looking for a wingman, one from a similar group, or maybe someone that you’ve been given a mission to find or hunt down. You will also be able to see the full list of players in the room if there are more players than there are slots. Default would be a drop down list for this, but as I hate anything that breaks the immersion, we’ll probably come up with a better in fiction way of seeing the list of players – maybe you tell the bartender who you’re looking for, maybe you can look at the door list for the bar.

Having bought my cargo I launch into space. If there are players already in orbit there will be an orbit instance already created. If it’s not full then I will be placed into that. If it is full then a new one will be dynamically created. All orbit (and battle) instances reserve slots for friends and persons of interest (POI), which can be NPCs or other players, so if you’ve launched and there are multiple orbit instances and you have friends already in orbit you should be placed into that instance. This is also the dynamic that will be applied if you want to follow another player – you can “tag” them as a POI and then the game will do its best to place you in the same instance as your POI. For instance if you tagged someone planet side and they launch your PDA with its future version of Siri will notify you that your POI is leaving, giving you a window to launch into space too.

Once in orbit I can pull up my Navigation computer and set a course for my destination. If its several systems away like Terra, the nav computer will chart a course through the relevant jump points. You will be able to adjust this like on Google maps, so if you click a different jump point on the system map it will then re-route you on the shortest path to your destination with that jump point as the first “jump”

Once I’ve plotted my nav course I would then engage auto-pilot and head towards my first “way” point on the path to my destination (a jump point, an interim space feature, like an asteroid belt and so on). At this point I’ve been handed back to the Galaxy Server, which is determining whether I will encounter a hostile, someone that has tagged me as a POI, or a predetermined encounter on the way, or if I’m going to run across ongoing battle instance that is relevant to me (some members of the instance are aligned against or with me). These encounters could be with an NPC or a live player(s) and are sorted on skill level and also – which is important to all of you that like a more single player experience and don’t want to deal with griefers – based on your player versus player (PvP) preference. So if you’ve set your game settings to be low PvP and you’re in a relatively safe area, you’ll likely have an NPC (PvE) encounter as opposed to a PvP one. Of course your ranking and any reputation you earn won’t be the same with a PvE encounter versus a PvP. My hope for this dynamic is that it will allow people to first play Star Citizen in a safer more single player open world style, but as they grow in confidence and want to test their mettle against other real players they can take the training wheels off and get into battles with real players. There will also be areas of the universe that no matter what your PvP setting is, will be PvP. These will be systems that are on the fringes of the policed galaxy and will be notorious for pirate and other illegal activity. They will also be the most lucrative areas – if you can survive.

Now if you’re flying with your friends, who you can link to via the game POI “tagging” system, they will be with you when you’re pulled into a battle instance, whether it is against NPCs, real players or a combination of both.

Once the Galaxy Server has determined that you will have an encounter based on the above criteria it either dynamically creates a battle instance, or puts you in one if one already exists at the encounter point, and that instance has room for new players.  To exit this instance you either have to resolve the hostilities by defeating who’s targeting you, negotiating an exit or just outrunning them. Once in an instance you can put out a distress call to your friends. There are two ways people on your friends list (or squadron as we’re going to call it) can help. We save slots in all instances for friends to warp in to fight. To do this they need to be in the same system. If they are they can autopilot in to your rescue and will be dropped into the instance. If they’re not in the star system, if they can get to your system before the battle is over then they can join (but will only be able to join once they’ve reached your system). The second way for your friends to help out is by “dropping in” on your ship. This only works if it’s a multi person vehicle like the RSI Constellation. In this scenario they don’t need to be in your system, they just will drop in inside your ship and will be able to move around in first person, climbing into a turret to man it, or jumping in you P52 to fly it in combat while you fly the main ship (or they could fly your main ship and you pilot the fighter)

Once the hostilities or the event (sometimes you could be pulled into an instance because you came across a derelict ship or space station and we want to give the player a chance to explore) that triggered the drop out of auto-pilot has been resolved, you can hit auto-pilot again, get handed back to the Galaxy Server and go about your way on the nav course you’ve plotted.

You will always drop out at jump points and planets, where you will need to either make a jump to another system or land.

This process is continued until you reach your final destination, which in my example would be Terra, where I would use my comm system to negotiate a landing slot, which would take me down to the planet’s surface via an in-engine cinematic. Once planet side I’ll be able to sell my cargo, replenish my supplies and look for new opportunities via the third person planet side interface.

The advantage of this system is that is allows you to tailor your experience towards your preference – solo, co-op or full PvP. It also doesn’t partition you into different, parallel versions of the Star Citizen universe as everyone is kept on the persistent server. Because our battle or orbit / space instances are temporary, you’re never stuck

with one group over the long term and due to our heavy emphasis on friends and co-op, there will always be room for your friends to join you on your adventure; whether it’s against other players or NPCs.

The same instance system underpins the single player Squadron 42. If you’re playing off-line, your computer will be acting as the server and client, there will be no opportunities for friends to join and everyone will be an NPC. But if you play Squadron 42 through the Galaxy Server, even though your missions and space areas are pre-determined (you don’t get to pick where in the galaxy you are flying if you’re in the military) we will allow your friends to drop in / drop out to take over NPC wingmen and if you want extra skill ranking you can allow other players to drop in and take over enemy ace characters. This system is pretty similar to the Demon’s Souls setup where people could drop in as a Blue Phantom to help you kill a boss monster or fight off another invading player, or you could drop in as a Black Phantom to someone else’s world and try and kill them for XP and other gamerewards.

The key to all this is to allow player choice – you want to play alone you can, want your friends to join you in co-op we allow that and if you want to be challenged by other real players you can do that. The special part is that it can all happen in the same holistic universe.

I hope this helps in terms of understanding how we’re balancing the aspects of multiplayer as well as making the game fun.

Original post quoted by Bloodworth:
http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=22591.msg1132341#msg1132341




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 26, 2013, 09:57:39 AM
Man, I hope that was intentional.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 26, 2013, 01:14:41 PM
Next million dollar tier is "Idris-Q unlocked"

Then after that it's "Golden Gate Bridge unlocked"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 26, 2013, 01:34:42 PM
Lifestream is online now. (http://www.twitch.tv/roberts_space_ind_ch_1)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Hoax on November 26, 2013, 01:49:51 PM
Quote
Anvil Carrack – The Anvil Carrack has been the vanguard of every UEE exploration effort in recent years. Featuring reinforced fuel tanks for long-duration flight, a highly advanced jump drive array and a dedicated computer core room that allows it to put the maximum processing power into jump charting operations. Originally a military exclusive, the Carrack is now available for civilian use as a pathfinder spacecraft. Features on-board accommodations to allow for truly self-sufficient flight, including crew medical and repair facilities, and a mapping-oriented sensor suite capable of always charting a route home!

Nobody who isn't totally new at this should be able to read this with a straight face. There is zero chance any/most/all of that will matter if there is a game. Its like Marg or someone was saying, instead of starting with a game and making ships that work in that game they keep promising ships that imply that things like "finding a way home using your super nav computer" will have real gameplay effects. They won't.

Even if they had 5 years of solid breakneck development they couldn't ship something that finds non broken meaningful purposes just for this bullet list of features from their 33mil ship:
-Long duration flight. What does that mean? Will you run out of fuel on other ships? Why/how is that fun? For what benefits is that part of the game? Does this mean they have to make zones so big that some ships can't make it to points of interest without preparing in advance for the long flight?
-Better jump charting operations.  :oh_i_see:
-Pathfinding spacecraft. That's not a real role. There is zero chance at launch that there will be a reason for players to need to "pathfind" anything. Can you imagine the size and scope of the zones and the intentional info denial you would need to create such a role? Then someone "pathfinds" everything and puts it on a website and now what? Or is the star citizen universe limitless now?
-On board accomodations! I will be fucking floored if walking around your own ship is much more interactive or useful than it is in fucking Star Trek Online. I guess this counts as having extra nice player housing though?
-Self sufficient flight! This makes it sound like your ship has a kitchen and a bedroom which is great and totally needed in this game! But it won't be! Its a best RP/fluff wank!
-Crew medical bays! Not a thing! Everyone else needs to go visit a space station doctor acting catching mondolargian flu while visiting the rich vistas of... just nope. Not going to be a real gameplay aspect.
-Repair facilities! At best some kind of ship special passive or something? Maybe this will be real. I doubt it though. Remember these can't just be basic QoL perks because its implied other ships DONT HAVE THEM.
-Always chart a route home!

Now maybe this is all supposed to be fluff. Akin to how in Battletech TRO's they talked about which brand of PPC each mech had and what planet the metal was sourced from. But the thing is every battlemech or every eve spaceship is built to perform an actual role players have incentive to need/want to perform. Pathfinding in your self sufficient lassie-ship... Not so much.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 26, 2013, 02:05:13 PM
Quote
Anvil Carrack – The Anvil Carrack has been the vanguard of every UEE exploration effort in recent years. Featuring reinforced fuel tanks for long-duration flight, a highly advanced jump drive array and a dedicated computer core room that allows it to put the maximum processing power into jump charting operations. Originally a military exclusive, the Carrack is now available for civilian use as a pathfinder spacecraft. Features on-board accommodations to allow for truly self-sufficient flight, including crew medical and repair facilities, and a mapping-oriented sensor suite capable of always charting a route home!

Nobody who isn't totally new at this should be able to read this with a straight face. There is zero chance any/most/all of that will matter if there is a game. Its like Marg or someone was saying, instead of starting with a game and making ships that work in that game they keep promising ships that imply that things like "finding a way home using your super nav computer" will have real gameplay effects. They won't.

That obviously fluff text and not a gameplay promise. I am out of this part of the discussion though, this is getting silly.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 26, 2013, 02:27:27 PM
-Long duration flight.
-Better jump charting operations.
-Pathfinding spacecraft.
-On board accomodations!
-Self sufficient flight!
-Crew medical bays!
-Repair facilities!

-Ships have fuel. Not all are jump capable. Like most fighters.
- There are to be undisclosed sectors that you have to find, and navigate the jump, in turn you can sell the location and flight data ( Web site won't help, as you need the flight data to get though (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/12833-UEE-Queries-Jump-Points) ) Its a commodity for exploration game play. Also, they have said as they expand the galaxy, the jump locations will not be reviled, and if you are fist, you get to name it ( CS approval, of course )
- See above. Could be shortened jump navigation game, or something, not sure. See below
- Many of the ships have eating, sleeping ( This is a mechanic ) and toilet areas. They aim to create Believable ships that could support life in space, functional or not.
- You can be injured/Killed, as you are not just a ship. Planet side, space walking/EVA, and possibly as your ship takes damage. ( The have cited FTL )
- This could mean the ability to repair other ships ALA the Repair droids they have discussed, or some sort of crafting thing.

Quote
Fuel Usage and Range

  • Exploration will involve "expanded and/or efficient fuel consumption, including lighter hulls/armor." Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/513612/#Comment_513612)
  • Speed will affect fuel efficiency, so going slower will increase your range. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/526992/#Comment_526992)
  • Range will be a matter of fuel supply and engine efficiency. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/453208/#Comment_453208)
  • Fuel is only used if you use thrusters. Turning off the IFCS and engines will allow you to coast. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/618968/#Comment_618968)
    • Using Jump Points will not consume fuel. Source: WH36, approx 14 minutes in.Thanks to @23_TSF for the citation.
Quote
What will Explorer's be able to find?
  • About 70% of each star system will be unexplored. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/650477/#Comment_650477)
  • Alien Wrecks. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/650477/#Comment_650477)
  • Asteroid fields with resource deposits. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/650477/#Comment_650477)
  • Lots of interesting space features. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/581999/#Comment_581999) Another (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/581750/#Comment_581750)
  • Possibly "Treasure Island" style treasure hunts triggered by found artifacts. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/134067/#Comment_134067)
  • Derelicts
  • Some derelicts can be explored on foot. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/484918/#Comment_484918)
  • Repairable Bengal Carriers
  • Asteroid Bases
  • Old areas will have some system for keeping them explorable. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/513719/#Comment_513719)
  • Rare, unexpected and possibly unique encounters that are not persistent, perhaps found by following faint hints and trails. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/607296/#Comment_607296)

Quote
  • The Salvage mechanic will likely be a primary source of income for many explorers. Source (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13305-Letter-From-The-Chairman-21-Million)
    Salvage Mechanic: Salvage isn’t an aside: it’s a career, with its own mechanic, story tie-ins and universe-shaping endgames. Search the galaxy for a host of valuable and interesting secrets using both the flight and FPS components. Discover the secrets of the ancient Hadesians, locate valuable components and cargo… or go down in history the first to make contact an entirely new alien race!
    • Discovering a jump point to an unknown system will be highly valuable, as well as granting you naming rights.
    • Presumably discovering unknown jump points to known systems will have monetary rewards.
    • We can record resource locations and sell that information. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/513719/#Comment_513719)
    • Selling resource locations to an NPC store gives royalties on the sale of that info. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/650477/#Comment_650477)
    • Resource deposits can be over-mined and exhausted. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/571618/#Comment_571618)
    • Presumably the treasure hunts mentioned above will have some cash value.
    • Identifying and following ships with bounties, and selling their locations. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/311667/#Comment_311667)
    • Scout Escorts: Rob Irving has said it may be possible to share autopilot data for formation flying. This may allow "slaving" a customer's autopilot to your nav data and guiding them through hazards. I've asked directly if that's the plan and will update if/when he answers. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/166951/#Comment_166951)
    • We will be able to take missions from the OES (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/13123-Writers-Guide-Part-Thirteen). As an intel office, that may mean scouting missions. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/458365/#Comment_458365)
Quote
[ul]
  • Explorers can manually fly through regions others "fast travel" over.
  • Autopilot (Fast Travel) is [ u]not[ /u] required in-system. Jump points are required between systems.  Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/458438/#Comment_458438)
  • Mention of explorers specifically avoiding the fast travel mechanic. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/571590/#Comment_571590)
  • Waypoints can be used to create a search pattern. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/526992/#Comment_526992)
  • An amazing interactive map by @Zuur  Link (http://http://starcitizen.mojoworld.com/StarMap/)
  • There will be space hazards. No word on if they will require advanced sensors to detect or specialized protection to survive. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/268198/#Comment_268198)
  • No space monsters. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/581750/#Comment_581750)
  • We can keep souvenirs of our travels.  Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/496283/#Comment_496283)
  • There will be a coordinate system and landmarks. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/581739/#Comment_581739)
[/ul]

RE: Sensors

Quote
So, we just started implementation of the signature and radar system in the engine a week or two ago. At its most basic level it works something like this: A target emits a signature, that signature is modified by environmental effects and any boosting effects such as an extra sensitive radar unit, or an active ping etc. If that signal is over the threshold of a listening device then it is a certain target, if it is under the threshold but under the maximum range of the listening device then it is an uncertain target. The level of uncertainty scales with the difference between the threshold and the the signal.

The primary method of sensor control will be whether you are using active or passive listening, and setting your focus width. Narrow bands are more sensitive and can detect targets with greater certainty, but their use comes at the cost of creating large radar blind spots. It will be up to you to select the radar mode you want to use in any given scenario. (a tip of the hat to a commenter in this thread who suggested this functionality, proof that we do incorporate your suggestions into our designs!)

Positional sensor data will primarily take the form of the radar display which is based on and evolved from the Wing Commander style display. Informational sensor data display relies heavily on the HUD/cockpit UI design which is just in its initial research phase.
Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/1024812/#Comment_1024812)[/list][/list]

EDIT: Formatting and link fixes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on November 26, 2013, 03:18:52 PM
Well, I think Hoax is saying that none of this list will make it into the game, which will make the ship description fluff, and you're quoting all these lists as proof of implementation.  So I guess it's saved for posterity and we can come back to this post when the game is released and figure out who's right and wrong.   Edit your posts and put your wagers in, if you wish to make the whole thing "interesting."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 26, 2013, 03:34:42 PM
-Long duration flight.
-Better jump charting operations.
-Pathfinding spacecraft.
-On board accomodations!
-Self sufficient flight!
-Crew medical bays!
-Repair facilities!

-Ships have fuel. Not all are jump capable. Like most fighters.
- There are to be undisclosed sectors that you have to find, and navigate the jump, in turn you can sell the location and flight data ( Web site won't help, as you need the flight data to get though (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/12833-UEE-Queries-Jump-Points) ) Its a commodity for exploration game play. Also, they have said as they expand the galaxy, the jump locations will not be reviled, and if you are fist, you get to name it ( CS approval, of course )
- See above. Could be shortened jump navigation game, or something, not sure. See below
- Many of the ships have eating, sleeping ( This is a mechanic ) and toilet areas. They aim to create Believable ships that could support life in space, functional or not.
- You can be injured/Killed, as you are not just a ship. Planet side, space walking/EVA, and possibly as your ship takes damage. ( The have cited FTL )
- This could mean the ability to repair other ships ALA the Repair droids they have discussed, or some sort of crafting thing.

Quote
Fuel Usage and Range

  • Exploration will involve "expanded and/or efficient fuel consumption, including lighter hulls/armor." Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/513612/#Comment_513612)
  • Speed will affect fuel efficiency, so going slower will increase your range. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/526992/#Comment_526992)
  • Range will be a matter of fuel supply and engine efficiency. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/453208/#Comment_453208)
  • Fuel is only used if you use thrusters. Turning off the IFCS and engines will allow you to coast. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/618968/#Comment_618968)
    • Using Jump Points will not consume fuel. Source: WH36, approx 14 minutes in.Thanks to @23_TSF for the citation.
Quote
What will Explorer's be able to find?
  • About 70% of each star system will be unexplored. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/650477/#Comment_650477)
  • Alien Wrecks. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/650477/#Comment_650477)
  • Asteroid fields with resource deposits. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/650477/#Comment_650477)
  • Lots of interesting space features. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/581999/#Comment_581999) Another (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/581750/#Comment_581750)
  • Possibly "Treasure Island" style treasure hunts triggered by found artifacts. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/134067/#Comment_134067)
  • Derelicts
  • Some derelicts can be explored on foot. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/484918/#Comment_484918)
  • Repairable Bengal Carriers
  • Asteroid Bases
  • Old areas will have some system for keeping them explorable. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/513719/#Comment_513719)
  • Rare, unexpected and possibly unique encounters that are not persistent, perhaps found by following faint hints and trails. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/607296/#Comment_607296)

Quote
  • The Salvage mechanic will likely be a primary source of income for many explorers. Source (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13305-Letter-From-The-Chairman-21-Million)
    Salvage Mechanic: Salvage isn’t an aside: it’s a career, with its own mechanic, story tie-ins and universe-shaping endgames. Search the galaxy for a host of valuable and interesting secrets using both the flight and FPS components. Discover the secrets of the ancient Hadesians, locate valuable components and cargo… or go down in history the first to make contact an entirely new alien race!
    • Discovering a jump point to an unknown system will be highly valuable, as well as granting you naming rights.
    • Presumably discovering unknown jump points to known systems will have monetary rewards.
    • We can record resource locations and sell that information. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/513719/#Comment_513719)
    • Selling resource locations to an NPC store gives royalties on the sale of that info. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/650477/#Comment_650477)
    • Resource deposits can be over-mined and exhausted. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/571618/#Comment_571618)
    • Presumably the treasure hunts mentioned above will have some cash value.
    • Identifying and following ships with bounties, and selling their locations. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/311667/#Comment_311667)
    • Scout Escorts: Rob Irving has said it may be possible to share autopilot data for formation flying. This may allow "slaving" a customer's autopilot to your nav data and guiding them through hazards. I've asked directly if that's the plan and will update if/when he answers. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/166951/#Comment_166951)
    • We will be able to take missions from the OES (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/13123-Writers-Guide-Part-Thirteen). As an intel office, that may mean scouting missions. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/458365/#Comment_458365)
Quote
[ul]
  • Explorers can manually fly through regions others "fast travel" over.
  • Autopilot (Fast Travel) is [ u]not[ /u] required in-system. Jump points are required between systems.  Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/458438/#Comment_458438)
  • Mention of explorers specifically avoiding the fast travel mechanic. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/571590/#Comment_571590)
  • Waypoints can be used to create a search pattern. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/526992/#Comment_526992)
  • An amazing interactive map by @Zuur  Link (http://http://starcitizen.mojoworld.com/StarMap/)
  • There will be space hazards. No word on if they will require advanced sensors to detect or specialized protection to survive. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/268198/#Comment_268198)
  • No space monsters. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/581750/#Comment_581750)
  • We can keep souvenirs of our travels.  Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/496283/#Comment_496283)
  • There will be a coordinate system and landmarks. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/581739/#Comment_581739)
[/ul]

RE: Sensors

Quote
So, we just started implementation of the signature and radar system in the engine a week or two ago. At its most basic level it works something like this: A target emits a signature, that signature is modified by environmental effects and any boosting effects such as an extra sensitive radar unit, or an active ping etc. If that signal is over the threshold of a listening device then it is a certain target, if it is under the threshold but under the maximum range of the listening device then it is an uncertain target. The level of uncertainty scales with the difference between the threshold and the the signal.

The primary method of sensor control will be whether you are using active or passive listening, and setting your focus width. Narrow bands are more sensitive and can detect targets with greater certainty, but their use comes at the cost of creating large radar blind spots. It will be up to you to select the radar mode you want to use in any given scenario. (a tip of the hat to a commenter in this thread who suggested this functionality, proof that we do incorporate your suggestions into our designs!)

Positional sensor data will primarily take the form of the radar display which is based on and evolved from the Wing Commander style display. Informational sensor data display relies heavily on the HUD/cockpit UI design which is just in its initial research phase.
Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/1024812/#Comment_1024812)[/list][/list]

EDIT: Formatting and link fixes.


My bet? 70% of this gets junked or doesn't work as described.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 26, 2013, 03:45:36 PM
I'm just posting the disclosed info, some of it is implemented according to the sources and developer postings. Much of this is not for Squadron 42, but the Persistent universe. Also, they have said many times, there will not be a traditional release/launch of the game. Its all in modules and stages, all pieced out to backers as its ready. Non-backers won't be able to buy the game until after the PU beta ( Retail price ). They also said, not everything they are discussing will be in a launch. This is a very different type of development plan. There will not be one giant "The game is done. launch." release like other games. I find it hard myself to try to pigeonhole this games development in the same vein of other titles. It simply will not be.

As far as "not proof of implementation", no shit, games not even in alpha yet. The single player alpha isn't anticipated till August 2014.

If you treat this project as a traditional "Data dump launch", you will be disappointed.

Quote
I’d like to take a moment to discuss exactly what you’re getting. First and foremost, the Hangar Module you will load next week is by no means a finished product. It is the earliest build of anything I have ever shared with the public. In fact, it’s at an even earlier stage than I would feel comfortable giving to any publisher I’ve worked with in the past and long before I would be sharing builds with QA in a traditional game development schedule! But Star Citizen is all about trying new approaches in game development.

The Hangar Module was not something we promised during the initial crowdfunding campaign. We had originally promised to share how the game was made with regular updates on our website and give early backers access the full game’s Alpha and Beta builds. But once we started development we came upon the idea of taking the constant public iteration that you get with a “live” online game and applying it during the game’s development to allow us to engage and involve the Star Citizen community of backers in the process of the making of the game. The Hangar Module seemed like a natural choice for our first public facing deliverable. While it may not be as glamorous as the Dogfighting Module which we aim to deliver by the end of this year, it requires a whole bunch of content and functionality that the final game will use, from the ships and their data structures, to communicating with your account to installing and patching the client. The Hangar Module will be the base foundation that everything is added as we release additional modules, eventually cumulating in the full persistent world alpha / beta.

Revision 1 of the Hangar will be very simple. You will be able to walk around, enter the initial pledge ships and explore a ground level in CryEngine that shows the kind of detail we are putting into the full game. It is intended as a very basic example of our direction that we are putting out to reward our backers, something to give you a chance to view “your” ship for the first time. Be warned, we have only just begun the QA process. This is the first stable build, not a slick “open beta” or anything designed as a promotional tool. We’re letting you in on the ground floor because we want to open up the process. Expect to encounter crashes, rendering bugs and other issues. Your feedback will help improve Star Citizen.

We need your help to test the hangar, just like you will be testing the game itself. After release, we will open a special forum for reporting and tracking hangar bugs. Your reports will go directly to the team, who will act on the bugs. Please don’t report them to the support e-mail, as our CS staff won’t be able to walk through hangar issues just yet!

In the coming months, we plan to release additional “major” Revisions of the Hangar, where we add more functionality and content. Things like detailed customization of your personal hangar, persistence of the state of all your items (what is equipped and where), in client item purchasing and the ability to invite your friends to your hangar will be part of later revisions of the Hangar Module.

Just because we’ve launched a module to the community doesn’t mean that it’s completely done. It just means its ready for the community’s feedback and stress testing! Our plan is to update each module (Hangar, Dogfighting, Planet, Ship-boarding) multiple times as new features and content are completed before the full integration into the persistent universe.


Also, when some of you post, you ascribe some level of arrogance that has never been shown by this group of developers. Perhaps you should not. They are quite humble, and have been during this entire process to date. They know its ambitious. And they are extreamly transparent, daily, weekly, constantly. This includes discussing ideas that may never happen. Also, for the record and for what its worth, there is zero NDA.

Quote
GREETINGS Dunnlang - "SC really has the opportunity to feel like a living breathing world" - AGREED! All we have to do is not suck. All fine ideas by the way ... full of realism and supporting immersion ... great stuff.
Ted


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on November 26, 2013, 04:29:04 PM
Any sign of actual gameplay yet?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 26, 2013, 04:41:12 PM
Also, when some of you post, you ascribe some level of arrogance that has never been shown by this group of developers. Perhaps you should not. They are quite humble, and have been during this entire process to date. They know its ambitious. And they are extreamly transparent, daily, weekly, constantly. This includes discussing ideas that may never happen. Also, for the record and for what its worth, there is zero NDA.

Nope, extremely transparent is posting their financials. That's all I would want to see if I'm giving $250 for a digital asset. Because if I'm an "investor" or a "donor" those are my rights.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 26, 2013, 04:41:29 PM
i can't fault the developers at all. This is all insane, but I still think they're responding appropriately to the stimulus of people paying out thousands of dollars for ships.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: lamaros on November 26, 2013, 06:24:57 PM
This project [...], you will be disappointed.

I'm glad we can agree on something.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Merusk on November 26, 2013, 06:30:42 PM
Any sign of actual gameplay yet?

I can understand how you missed it in the wall of text, so I cut it out for you:

As far as "not proof of implementation", no shit, games not even in alpha yet. The single player alpha isn't anticipated till August 2014.

I laugh at peoples ignorance and blind fandom and, once again, am jealous I didn't think of it first.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on November 26, 2013, 07:31:18 PM
I tried thumbing through the livestream.

Was it just a static cam of people sitting around a table for four hours?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on November 27, 2013, 02:31:24 AM
You expect them to get drunk and start stripping each other?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 27, 2013, 02:42:18 AM
I tried thumbing through the livestream.

Was it just a static cam of people sitting around a table for four hours?

I did the same thing and I could barely keep my drink down as I kept wading through the archived stream only to see more talking faces, for hours.

But believe it or not, there IS something new and kind of real to watch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qEMI6EBVt0). Weapons!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 27, 2013, 05:14:25 AM
A user on Reddit did a great job in writing down everything that has been said throughout the livestream (especially the Q&A portions scattered here and there):

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1rigza/star_citizen_stream_live_now/cdnkwhc

Lots of subjects covered.
---

- They announced that the Hangar module will get two more iterations within Christmas: one is a graphical/performance pass, the other is the addition of a "firing range" where we'll be able to test out the ships' weapons while we wait for the DFM (dogfighting module)

- Speaking of the DFM, Roberts confirmed that they won't use the native Cryengine infrastructure for the network play, but want to build their own so that they can start testing that from the beginning, but it will take more time, so we'll get the multiplayer version of the DFM probably around mid-february at the earliest (my estimate)

Regarding the player vs. AI version of the DFM, it's a bit unclear: I'm not sure they will release it within the end of the year as expected, but probably within mid-january.
---------

The "Avenger" ship (the military version of it will be your beginning ship in the Squadron 42 single-player campaign) has received a design pass, but, more importantly, Physically Based Rendering, or "PBR":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVaR1wHRWX0

An early look at the HUD, from the guy who worked on Ironman 3, John Likens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8vVP4Fbof4 (great video!)

Obviously it needs some adjustments, there is too much stuff going on (although you can also minimize it, but it needs to be smaller). Each ship manufacturer will have its own HUD, althought different ships from the same manufacturer will have similar displays

Orchestral recording session, with audio director Martin Galway and composer Pedro Camacho:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrZpSPup9l4
---

The scam is slowly coming together, you bitches  :grin: . Still a scam, but at least it's good looking (yeah, well, wouldn't be much of a scam, otherwise) :P


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on November 27, 2013, 08:26:44 AM
I bought my alpha and beta and release versions for 40 bucks and refuse to spend a dollar more, because I am not a raving lunatic. However, I am having a hard time hating on Roberts for what he is doing. Being the owner or president of a company resonates with me. He is responsible for feeding his team and making sure they stay employed for as long as possible. If I were him and a bunch of suckers (no offense please, it's the truth) wanted to keep throwing money at me, practically guaranteeing the financial stability of my company for many years, I would milk that shit for every penny I could. Then I would go to every company picnic and meeting with a smile on my face knowing that I was doing right by my employees.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on November 27, 2013, 08:34:36 AM
I bought my alpha and beta and release versions for 40 bucks and refuse to spend a dollar more, because I am not a raving lunatic. However, I am having a hard time hating on Roberts for what he is doing. Being the owner or president of a company resonates with me. He is responsible for feeding his team and making sure they stay employed for as long as possible. If I were him and a bunch of suckers (no offense please, it's the truth) wanted to keep throwing money at me, practically guaranteeing the financial stability of my company for many years, I would milk that shit for every penny I could. Then I would go to every company picnic and meeting with a smile on my face knowing that I was doing right by my employees.

Remind me to never buy anything you're selling.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Merusk on November 27, 2013, 09:23:17 AM
I bought my alpha and beta and release versions for 40 bucks and refuse to spend a dollar more, because I am not a raving lunatic. However, I am having a hard time hating on Roberts for what he is doing. Being the owner or president of a company resonates with me. He is responsible for feeding his team and making sure they stay employed for as long as possible. If I were him and a bunch of suckers (no offense please, it's the truth) wanted to keep throwing money at me, practically guaranteeing the financial stability of my company for many years, I would milk that shit for every penny I could. Then I would go to every company picnic and meeting with a smile on my face knowing that I was doing right by my employees.

Oh, absolutely.  That's the beauty of it.  They haven't had to take on any debit because they have a funding base of suckers willing to give them money for nothing.  No piece of the company, no interest, no say in deadlines or proof of work, no method of refund and not even a gameplay advantage because they've stated these ships will be available in the game for game currency.

I'm not being sarcastic when I say I'm jealous I didn't think of it first.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Shaje on November 27, 2013, 09:52:56 AM
You charge what the market will bear.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 27, 2013, 10:57:12 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/XZnAUeB.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Gets on November 27, 2013, 11:21:33 AM
Quick, someone throw another $2 million in the bonfire.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 27, 2013, 11:38:37 AM
I just want to say that Crysis wasn't very good and Crysis where you play a spaceship sounds fucking awful.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 27, 2013, 12:11:24 PM
Any sign of actual gameplay yet?

There was in 2012.

Nope, extremely transparent is posting their financials. That's all I would want to see if I'm giving $250 for a digital asset. Because if I'm an "investor" or a "donor" those are my rights.

That's your personal stipulation for donating. Not everyone's. I am speaking on how they are chronicling, interacting with backers and openly discussing and showing the development. Hell, all backers have a program on their machine right now that's likely the earliest build of any game to be given to the public for any game.

I laugh at peoples ignorance and blind fandom and, once again, am jealous I didn't think of it first.

I'm still in Wait and see as far as if this turns out any good. Past track record, whose on staff and the constant updates to backers makes me believe its on course to be good. That's not what I would define as "blind". It also does not mean I ignore information on the project to make a uninformed rant. I also do not define design intentions that do not come true as "lies" either. *Shrug* Some do.

Be as skeptical as you guys want. Just don't expect those who are paying attention to feel the same way as deeply as you. The transparency of this development speaks a great deal to many people as far as projected quality. I Believe this is the key factor to the fundraising success.

The assumption that there is zero reasons for this much money to be donated to this project, is false. It didn't happen for no reason. I'm referring to the "suckers" comments.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 27, 2013, 12:39:29 PM
I just want to say that Crysis wasn't very good and Crysis where you play a spaceship sounds fucking awful.

You Can't be serious?

CryEngine 3 is a platform, Crysis was a game. An extremely well received game at that. Not that the game Crysis has much to do with star citizen. But the CryEngine has powered some extreamly popular titles.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 27, 2013, 12:52:17 PM
Ok.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samwise on November 27, 2013, 01:55:39 PM
Any sign of actual gameplay yet?

There was in 2012.

Does this refer to the hangar module?  Because if so boy do I have a game to sell you.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Draegan on November 27, 2013, 02:29:08 PM
All the people ganging up on MB is crazy. Then again you pack of fiends is how I feel about the dopes that keep buying shitty WOW expansions.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Rasix on November 27, 2013, 02:30:45 PM
OK. Thanks.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Draegan on November 27, 2013, 03:08:59 PM
Your welcome. You may continue knashing your teeth.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 27, 2013, 04:03:09 PM
Some info about Squadron 42, extrapolated by the Reddit link I posted in my previous message:

Quote

Q: How long is SQ42 game going to be?


A: Not just a tutorial. Mentioned 50 hours. Campaign will be "as big as any Wing Commander, even the biggest, or even a little bigger". 50-70 missions, and aren't all simple - they're multi-stage. Would be a "$200m big-ass Hollywood film". Lots of narrative, cool personalities, big set-pieces.
You learn organically "in the action" - not in a boring tutorial way.

Q: Will there be FPS in SQ42?
A: Yes, definitely boarding, probably on the ground as well. Not just flying.

Q: Will you be able to keep a ship at the end of SQ42?

A: Not particularly. End of SQ42 is mustering out - e.g. you don't get an F-16 if you leave the air force. You only take your friendships, reputation, and citizenship.

Q: Will there be a retirement benefit (e.g. more money) for getting higher rank in SQ42?

A: You can leave at various parts of the campaign, though you can't leave anywhere. Everyone will be at basically the same "level" when you finish. Finishing SQ42 might give you a few extra credits - haven't decided this yet - but it would be the same for everyone.

Q: Can you opt out of citizenship if you want to be a pirate?
A: Yes. Not an issue. Just go start pirating.

Q: How will dialog work?
A: Not a wheel system like Mass Effect. Based on first-person interaction - e.g. "catching someone's eye" to engage them. Previous actions and demeanor, whether you're looking them in the eye, etc. will affect how you interact with them. Maybe might hear your own internal thoughts like in Wing Commander 3/4. Mostly binary choices interspersed with eye contact/body language that affects how you interact with them. Won't be able to go back and redo conversations to try different options like in Mass Effect. "If you annoy someone, they will walk away from you". You have to make choices and can't go back.

Q: Will all game mechanics be introduced in SQ42 - e.g. salvage, etc.?
A: Yes - goal is to teach you how systems work, how to repair, etc. in an organic way in the story.

Q: Will there be difficulty levels in SQ42?
A: Not sure yet. Would be fairly simple to have easy/medium/hard. May do this - haven't made a choice yet. Don't want to make it too easy though.

Q: Character customization in SQ42?
A: You can create your character. Have a cool way to do this in-fiction. Not revealing too much yet.

Q: When will we see female character?
A: Actively working on this. Have 3D model, but shifting to do facial and full-body scanning now.
Current model is a "3/10" on quality vs. upcoming technology, so want to wait to show this until it's
done.

Q: Will there be friendly fire in SQ42?
A: Probably yes.

Q: Will there be a medal/ranking system?
[bA: Yes, definitely. There will be medals/awards. Model is similar to Wing Commander.

Q: Number of flyable ships in SQ42?
A: "At least six in some capacity or another". Fighter, bomber, transport, special ops, cap ship.
Possibly more.

Q: Will all SQ42 dialog be voiced?
A: Yes. And mostly mo-cap. "[Ryse] level or better".

Q: What inspires you for SQ42 story?
A: Gladiator, WWII movies. Lots of Roman influence - Gladiator, 9th Legion. Apocalypse Now.
Generation Kill.
For the SC PU: Firefly. Cowboy Bebop.
"Start really big, go from there"

Q: Will there be humor in SQ42?
A: Yes. Even serious movies work best with some.

Q: Will all voices be British?
A: No. There will be a mix. It will be cast like a big movie. Potentially some British, American,
etc. Like in Wing Commander - more multicultural than the present.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: DraconianOne on November 27, 2013, 05:16:32 PM
Any sign of actual gameplay yet?

There was in 2012.

Does this refer to the hangar module?  Because if so boy do I have a game to sell you.   :awesome_for_real:

You can have this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0gZES2pTWk#t=166) which was, apparently, rendered with the in-game engine. Not that's going to look anything like that on your machine obviously but look! Shiny!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samwise on November 27, 2013, 06:08:42 PM
Any sign of actual gameplay yet?

There was in 2012.

Does this refer to the hangar module?  Because if so boy do I have a game to sell you.   :awesome_for_real:

You can have this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0gZES2pTWk#t=166) which was, apparently, rendered with the in-game engine. Not that's going to look anything like that on your machine obviously but look! Shiny!

A trailer rendered with the game engine is even worse of an answer to "is there gameplay?" than the hangar thing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: DraconianOne on November 28, 2013, 04:08:07 AM
A trailer rendered with the game engine is even worse of an answer to "is there gameplay?" than the hangar thing.

Can't argue with that. For a game whose first pre-kickstarter trailer proudly heralded SC as the return of the space-sim, there's been an awful lot of (admittedly very pretty) footage the inside of the ships with well animated characters getting in and out of a bunk - but not so much of the actual flying through space shooting things part. But hey, at least you can land on Coruscant right?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 28, 2013, 07:33:52 PM
Oh shit.  Okay, well, you can make fun of this. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13408-Giving-Thanks)  Let it never be said that I wasn't generous in hate opportunities.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 28, 2013, 10:04:16 PM
(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/w251yisbamkylr/source/SC_FEMALE_EXPLORER_BACK_WIP_V3_131019_RM.jpg)

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/qtvdrlqysdi7hr/source/SC_FEMALE_EXPLORER_FRONT_WIP_V3_131019_RM.jpg)

Strong "chainmail-bikini-armor fashion school" influence here. Also the one-leg-in-front-of-the-other pose. Isn't it possible to stand normal, once? *twitch*

If I go into serious business space combat I want to look menacing, not radiate an aura o f "Oh hi Mr. space pirate, come and sweep me of my feet!"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Merusk on November 28, 2013, 10:17:15 PM
I didn't get the 'chainmail bikini' vibe taking a look. A bodyglove/ wetsuit makes some sense for a pressure/ environment suit of the future.  After all, she's not a space marine, she's a pilot, right?  So it's going to be snug on men and women (make fun of guys for having no package.)  It's not blatantly sexy and has a utilitarian look to it. Nothing's exposed, no 'boob window' or gratuitous g-string design.

It goes all off the rails at the breasts, though.  To do that there'd need to be  some sort of ribbing/ wire holding them out from the body for anything to conform like that. At that point I agree, it's silly.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 28, 2013, 10:37:45 PM
It goes all off the rails at the breasts, though.  To do that there'd need to be  some sort of ribbing/ wire holding them out from the body for anything to conform like that. At that point I agree, it's silly.

That's what I was refering too.  :-)

At the back view there is (combined with the pose) the padding to create 'focus on my bum!' effect. No, it's not that blatant, but if you'd put a female character in the male suit id be completely gone. So it's very much deliberate.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 29, 2013, 12:00:08 AM
Oh shit.  Okay, well, you can make fun of this. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13408-Giving-Thanks)  Let it never be said that I wasn't generous in hate opportunities.

Quote
But this extra visibility has also brought the inevitable doubters or people that just hate to see something out of the ordinary succeed. “It’s a scam!” “It can’t live up the hype!” “I’ll laugh when it fails and everyone is disappointed!”

With the headlines will come inevitable haters. They can’t comprehend why a game like Star Citizen could capture the imagination, why so many people would enthusiastically support something long before it’s a sure thing. Sometimes I wonder this myself.

But when I think about it, one answer comes to me.

We’re all following a dream with Star Citizen.

Yes, yes we can.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 29, 2013, 03:22:57 AM
confirmed: Chris Roberts reads F13  :why_so_serious: But no, for reasons beyond my intellectual grasp, there are other places that still don't adhere to the CoR (Church of Roberts); oh well, just a matter of time.
---

Ahem, anyway: regarding the explorer WIP, yeah,  The breast area suffers from the "chainmail bikini" syndrome. I remember that something similar happened during the Project Eternity KS campaign: they first showed this...


...which became this, after some discussions on the forums:


So far, here and there we've seen concept art of Marines, bounty hunters, explorers, privateers; SC will feature a classless system, but maybe, given our reputation, missions achieved, NPC factionsetc., we'll obtain a certain "title", I don't know.

The message posted above by Miasma shows a (concept art) landing zone, called "Platinum Bay":

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/l2sln2wtujly6r/post_section_header/PlatinumBay_LandingZone_final.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ginaz on November 29, 2013, 11:57:48 AM
confirmed: Chris Roberts reads F13  :why_so_serious: But no, for reasons beyond my intellectual grasp, there are other places that still don't adhere to the CoR (Church of Roberts); oh well, just a matter of time.
---

Ahem, anyway: regarding the explorer WIP, yeah,  The breast area suffers from the "chainmail bikini" syndrome. I remember that something similar happened during the Project Eternity KS campaign: they first showed this...


...which became this, after some discussions on the forums:


So far, here and there we've seen concept art of Marines, bounty hunters, explorers, privateers; SC will feature a classless system, but maybe, given our reputation, missions achieved, NPC factionsetc., we'll obtain a certain "title", I don't know.

The message posted above by Miasma shows a (concept art) landing zone, called "Platinum Bay":

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/l2sln2wtujly6r/post_section_header/PlatinumBay_LandingZone_final.jpg)


You know, this game would get shit on a lot less if they had more than just concept art to show for the $30+ million they've received.  That being said, some people need to calm their tits wrt their criticism.  It's way more annoying than reading about some new ship in the cash shop or the next stretch goal posted by fanboys.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 29, 2013, 05:43:03 PM
Quote
You know, this game would get shit on a lot less if they had more than just concept art to show for the $30+ million they've received.

Well, the fact that they had the hangar module out as early as they did and allowed people to noodle around inside and around the present models of their ships wasn't too bad at all.

Oh! And it's about that time, again, I guess. Discussions about armored boobs, in armor. Dunnit matter that in any real world parallel, there's fuck all for boobs (http://cdn1.bostonmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/new-body-armor-women-military.jpg) in combat armor for women; you have to balance out the opportunity for men and women alike okay mostly men get to have 'curves' on their space avatars. Or just dress lewdly.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 29, 2013, 07:54:06 PM
Oh yes, the ol' subtle white knighting of women not showing curves and cleavage in armor because in real life they wouldn't.

Yea, that discussion is stupid.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on November 29, 2013, 08:12:50 PM
I might orgasm when this game goes live and black out from the overwhelming sense of schadenfreude.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sophismata on November 30, 2013, 08:45:51 PM
Actually, what irks me with those WIP pics is that the male armour has giant "fuck-off" plates covering his vitals, whereas the female armour has these little padded contours, presumably so that it can look sexy instead of functional.

The "we're all just following the dream" thing is kind of scary, since that's the kind of factless drivel Amway use.


I do hope the game releases and is awesome, though - should it do so, I'll be there with my money.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 30, 2013, 09:09:13 PM
I might orgasm when this game goes live and black out from the overwhelming sense of schadenfreude.

When you wake up, Radicalthon.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Dark_MadMax on December 01, 2013, 11:12:11 PM

Can't argue with that. For a game whose first pre-kickstarter trailer proudly heralded SC as the return of the space-sim, there's been an awful lot of (admittedly very pretty) footage the inside of the ships with well animated characters getting in and out of a bunk - but not so much of the actual flying through space shooting things part. But hey, at least you can land on Coruscant right?

There was somewhere. though I was not particularly impressed - maybe too old for space sims now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on December 01, 2013, 11:16:46 PM
I might orgasm when this game goes live and black out from the overwhelming sense of schadenfreude.

When you wake up, Radicalthon.

That's the 47M stretch goal.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on December 02, 2013, 07:08:48 AM
The latest "Jumpoint Magazine" is available for subscribers (and, of course, non-subscribers via "alternative" methods :P). What follows will be probably posted soon enough as an official post on the website, but anyways, here's their current idea of a piracy career in Star Citizen:
------------------------

Quote
JP: What makes a player character a pirate, and how visible is it? Will I have a little “Pirate” label hovering over my cockpit as I fly around?

RR: Piracy is a choice, rather than a player “class.” You don’t have to look a certain way, and we’re not going to stick little pirate flags on all of the pirate characters in the game. Scanning and recognizing a pirate is more about seeing a list of crimes committed than having to join a specific pirate club.

JP: How can I get rid of the tag (and any bounties on my character) ?

RR: Stop committing crimes and become a productive member of society. (By this, I mean doing things that the UEE likes/needs.) And pay off any outstanding bounties.

JP: What’s the benefit to piracy?

RR: The most obvious benefit is that you can take what you need without having to buy it! It’s also a good lifestyle to choose if you’re not too keen on being a part of the UEE.

JP: Does that mean piracy will be a viable career, or is it something limiting?

RR: There are obviously risks to being a pirate, particularly a well-known one. But it is absolutely a viable career. You’ll just need to choose your shopping locations carefully.

JP: Will a relatively unknown pirate be in more danger from player characters or from the NPC law-enforcement organizations? How about a pirate with high recognition?

RR: I wouldn’t think of it as NPC or PC, since that can vary based on your preferences. You’ll always be in danger from both. If you don’t have a significantly bad reputation or lengthy list of crimes, you probably won’t get much trouble from the Advocacy directly (but we may have player missions from the Advocacy, as well). Well-known pirates with very bad reputations and extensive rap sheets are a different story, as the Advocacy and Bounty Hunters’ Guild will actively seek them out.

JP: What sources do you draw from for creating Star Citizen’s pirate experience?

RR: There have been a number of great pirate games over the years, and we draw inspiration from many of them. Of course, previous Wing Commander and Star/Freelancer provides significant influence as to how these groups operate. Some other favorites are Sid Meier’s Pirates! and the Merchants and Marauders board game, but inspiration comes from other game types, as well.

JP: Will pirates have access to anything unique? Will they be denied anything?

RR: It’s more based on your reputation than your career choice, but those who have a good reputation with certain pirate groups might have access to some special equipment that the do-gooders can’t have. On the other hand, they will have a much harder time getting their hands on military spec equipment, however, and there will be trouble if the Advocacy catches you with illegal hardware!

JP: Are all pirates equal, or is there a more detailed reputation system?

RR: The reputation system is quite detailed, and does distinguish between different groups. It doesn’t just impact your relationship with pirate groups, however. And some pirate packs might even be sworn enemies of other packs, so a positive rep with one pirate group might mean a negative rep with another group.

JP: How will pirate organizations work? Is there honor among thieves, or is it every man for themselves?

RR: That can vary widely, just like player groups will. Some packs will be very cutthroat, and you’ll have to watch your back constantly. Others will be more organized and operate as a team. Just depends on how you want to play.

JP: Is Cutlass or Caterpillar ownership a black mark, or will they be common in civilian (non-pirate) hands?

RR: The Advocacy will not automatically assume that you’re a pirate simply because you have a Drake ship. That being said, if there is a lot of pirate activity in a particular area, you might be more likely to be scanned and identified by an Advocacy ship if you’re in a ship that is typically associated with that sort of activity. Of course, if you’re not up to anything nefarious, scanning won’t be a problem, regardless of what type of ship you’re flying.

JP: Is it an “asteroid” hangar or a “pirate” hangar? Is there a difference?

RR: Asteroid hangar! Not all asteroid hangar occupants will be pirates, nor will all pirates necessarily hang out in asteroid hangars. It’s the occupant that makes a pirate hangar.

JP: So how is an asteroid hangar different from any other hangar?

RR: It’s in an asteroid!

JP: What’s up with the Drake corporation? How does it continue to exist in legal areas of space?

RR: As they will be quick to inform you, Drake does not manufacture pirate vessels. Although their ships are possibly more attractive to those who dwell outside the law, they are intended for non-criminal activity. (At least according to the company’s PR team ….) Some might even say that their ships must be better if pirates prefer them in dangerous conditions.

JP: But declared pirates will get discounts on Drake equipment,
won’t they?


RR: Er … I guess we might have said that somewhere at some point. Or are you just making it up? I guess it depends upon where you buy that equipment.

JP: How will anti-piracy work? Will there be UEE patrols? How can “good” players get involved?

RR: There are several different groups that tend to hunt down pirates. The military does not generally get involved unless there is a major outbreak of pirate activity that seriously threatens the livelihood of a UEE world. The Advocacy and local police groups are more likely to get involved when pirate activity is reported. Bounty hunters also like to hunt down specific individuals from the pirate world. And any of these might contract out a hunt to eager player characters.So it’s not necessarily an easy life …

JP: Meanwhile, we’ve got pirate havens like Spider. Surely the UEE knows about them. Why not go in and clean them up?

RR: The more cynical among the UEE leadership might say that a little piracy is good for the economy. Keeps insurance companies afloat, provides jobs for countless citizens, and creates competition for groups that get too big. And a little piracy is an acceptable level, as far as they’re concerned. Places like Spider do contribute to the economy and would be far too costly to clean up entirely. As long as the pirates don’t get too out of hand, the UEE will generally let them keep to their
own territory. Other races might not be so cooperative, however.

JP: What about player raids on Spider? Will they be sanctioned by the Advocacy, or does attacking any other player (including a pirate) make you a pirate also?

RR: While you do not take an instant reputation hit for attacking a known pirate, you had better be certain that your target actually is a pirate before attacking. We can’t assume that everyone who visits Spider is a pirate. And undertaking freelance missions against pirates still requires clearance from the Advocacy or Bounty Hunters’ Guild.

JP: And, finally, of course ... Who are you that flies so good? Are you insane?

RR: Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on December 02, 2013, 07:38:02 AM
forget it


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on December 02, 2013, 07:39:19 AM
The latest "Jumpoint Magazine" is available for subscribers (and, of course, non-subscribers via "alternative" methods :P). What follows will be probably posted soon enough as an official post on the website, but anyways, here's their current idea of a piracy career in Star Citizen:

JumpPoint 1.12 Drawing The Cutlass (Google Drive - 31.5 MB, PDF) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3xmT9bl4DChdlE2Z1Jzc244MEU/edit?usp=sharing)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on December 02, 2013, 07:41:04 AM
forget it

I saw it and agree  (your point and the thought of 'not worth it') :-)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on December 02, 2013, 08:21:17 AM
JP: What sources do you draw from for creating Star Citizen’s pirate experience?

... Sid Meier’s Pirates! ...

 :drillf: :drillf: :drillf: :drillf: :drillf: :drillf:

This is why I want this game to be exactly what it promises to be, so bad. And this is also why I can't believe it, and won't forgive Roberts if he won't deliver.

Let's face it, you can choose to love or hate this "Promise of a game" but there's no doubt it would be the best thing ever if it happened to be real. The problem is: if the phone rings and a voice says you just won a million dollar, do you believe them? Of course you want it to be true, and you would be the happiest if it happened to be true, but it is gonna take a while for the voice on the phone to convince you it really is true. AND, you are gonna need proof.

This is all what it boils down to: no one here thinks it's a scam. No one here wants it to be a scam, or an overpromising huge flop. What we want is for it to be exactly what it promises, but disappointment doesn't come cheap. Not for me at least, not anymore. So it is only natural to yell in rage at someone for offering you the promise of a perfect game. After all, when's the last time such promises happened to be fulfilled?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on December 02, 2013, 10:40:31 AM
I actually want it to be a scam.

The gaming world needs a giant cockup in this sort of faux-Kickstarter-esque style. Desperately.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on December 02, 2013, 10:41:47 AM
I think it's a scam. It's a scam with a bunch of people who COULD actually create a game, but I don't think they intend to create anything remotely like what they are promising, if they even launch at all.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: KallDrexx on December 02, 2013, 10:43:54 AM
Meh, I think they fully intend to try and create what they are talking about.  I'm less inclined to believe they will execute their grand vision correctly.  But hey, if they do manage to create something full of awesomeness I'll be there with my money, but not until then.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on December 02, 2013, 10:52:40 AM
My apb/hellgate sense is tingling.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on December 02, 2013, 11:32:04 AM
My apb/hellgate sense is tingling.

Exactly.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on December 02, 2013, 11:35:54 AM
Interestingly, APB was to MrBloodworth's reputation what Vanguard was to mine.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on December 02, 2013, 01:04:54 PM
My apb/hellgate sense is tingling.

Fuck me, I loved Hellgate. Despite everything.
 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on December 02, 2013, 01:49:49 PM
Yea, the games were fun. Just the studios went bankrupt making them.

*Buy more ships!*


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on December 02, 2013, 03:04:37 PM
This is like reading fan fiction for a game that doesn't exist.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Der Helm on December 02, 2013, 05:23:00 PM
This is like reading fan dev fiction for a game that doesn't exist.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: satael on December 02, 2013, 11:23:14 PM
All the great features for this are starting to sound like Vanguard to me but then again if this had been marketed as the "new Space Rogue (http://www.mobygames.com/game/space-rogue)" instead of the new Chris Roberts game I'd have spent alot of money just based on a faint hope of a good game. Now I'm satisfied to just wait for the actual release of the game before spending any money (while hoping it will turn out to be almost as good as every fan thinks it will).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on December 03, 2013, 02:15:23 AM
As much as I loved Wing Commander and as stated multiple times I am secretly dreaming for this to deliver at least half of what is promised, I hear you Satael. To me when it comes to space, nothing topped the emotional investment I had for Elite (and Frontier) first and and Space Rogue a few years later.

But yes, as soon as I typed Vanguard a few posts up, I realized that at this point it is not a bad analogy at all.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Merusk on December 03, 2013, 06:39:28 AM
My apb/hellgate sense is tingling.

I was thinking more like Spore.  Remember all those promises and the combinations of gameplay and game styles THAT was supposed to be?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on December 03, 2013, 10:25:30 AM
As I predicted, the forums are beginning to .. I don't know, is there a word for it? Metastasize? Become a writhing mass of hydatid cysts?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samwise on December 04, 2013, 02:03:57 AM
Will it be possible to launch infants or other characters from torpedo tubes?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Der Helm on December 04, 2013, 06:07:03 AM
I was a bit surprised that there is  "mods" subforum. It is full of people posting pictures of spaceships they have drawn or even rendered themselves.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on December 04, 2013, 06:49:39 AM
In theory, players will have the possibility to mod the game (private servers, of course, and maybe the single-player?):

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals

$4M goal (back in Nov 2012) - "Professional mod tools will be provided free to all players."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on December 05, 2013, 09:24:36 AM
If the customization tools are robust enough, there will be a good handful of really good servers. If history is any indication, some will be designed around handling < critical commonly complained about flaw of vanilla game's combat >


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on December 06, 2013, 03:57:47 PM
The Organizations (Guilds) section on the official website will launch soon:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13418-All-About-Organizations

Sounds pretty slick and detailed. Hopefully it won't turn out like the Guild sub-section on the pre-launch SWTOR website (useless, in the end).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on December 06, 2013, 07:20:20 PM
Hah wait nevermind.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on December 06, 2013, 09:44:39 PM
What? No, put that post back Miasma.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on December 06, 2013, 10:35:21 PM
I'm now even madder that he changed his original post which was good!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pezzle on December 06, 2013, 11:52:03 PM
I concur. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on December 07, 2013, 06:27:12 AM
It was a bad post made under the influence in a thread I'm trying to avoid.  I will stick with the buying a package for schild for him to give away to someone to mock the game if the dogfighting module isn't a failure.

Edit: I mean it actually woke me up an hour after I went to sleep with the thought "Oh God I didn't post in the star citizen thread did I?".  Then I blew it away without thinking.  Then it woke me up again this morning with the throught "Oh God I didn't both post and then blow away the post in the star citizen thead did I?".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on December 07, 2013, 07:41:02 AM
It's refreshing to read someone "on board" starting to post some concerns though. That's why it is not cool that you removed it. Not because we want for the drama to finally begin to unravel (after all, I am a backer of this thing myself), but because there's a need for some objectivity from within the fanbase, instead of just the skirmishing between the skeptics and the believers factions.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on December 07, 2013, 09:52:57 AM
Well yes, but there's nothing significant released to talk about, so I'm not bothering to post from the cautiously hopeful camp.  Fanboys and complete detractors are all that are left.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on December 07, 2013, 11:00:12 AM
His post was basically saying, "Hey Lucas, let's not bump this thing unless we know the dogfighting thing is panning out, because you know, there are concerns about it and we don't want to attract the bears."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on December 07, 2013, 01:32:32 PM
His post was basically saying, "Hey Lucas, let's not bump this thing unless we know the dogfighting thing is panning out, because you know, there are concerns about it and we don't want to attract the bears."
That's completely inaccurate, I had a farside cartoon in there as well!

Also I'm not a fanboy, my consistent opinion has been "I hope this is slightly better than EvE and EvE sucks so how hard could it be?".  My last two posts were "here mock this" and "if they don't get a working dogfighting module the game is doomed".

I don't think even Bloodworth could be considered a fanboy, he mostly just reposted official news (which I appreciate because I'm not going to the star citizen website every damn day).

If you want horrible, horrible fanboys then, as always, consult the official forums.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on December 07, 2013, 01:38:01 PM
Also I'm not a fanboy

That's why, even though you are a backer, your post about caution was particularly meaningful.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on December 07, 2013, 06:39:52 PM

.........

...Looks like I missed all the fun  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on December 08, 2013, 10:21:54 AM
I don't think even Bloodworth could be considered a fanboy, he mostly just reposted official news (which I appreciate because I'm not going to the star citizen website every damn day).
You don't know Bloodworth then. :-P


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on December 08, 2013, 03:20:18 PM
I think I'm gonna petition chris roberts personally to put in a planet called Cobrastan.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on December 08, 2013, 03:41:07 PM
I think I'm gonna petition chris roberts personally to put in a planet called Cobrastan.

Sorry, you didn't reach the stretch goal. It's now called Cobra-La.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: satael on December 09, 2013, 05:24:40 AM
The New Ships Available for Star Citizen (http://www.somethingawful.com/news/star-citizen-gravytrain/)  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on December 09, 2013, 06:53:56 AM
Quote
Don't consider these ships DLC for a game that is not yet been released, consider them investments in your future of gaming enjoyment.

 :heart:

Too bad that the lack of ships beyond the 100$ mark gives away it's not an official sale.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on December 09, 2013, 12:22:26 PM
Quote
Hey, idiot. Want to spend your money on this garbage? We don't even know what it is. Some pop cans attached to a pile of goblin models from a cancelled reboot of Lands of Lore. Maybe? We were going to try to sell you all these different animals you could ride like horses and pigs in Lands of Lore and then we just said "screw it" because we could sell you anything as a spaceship, including horses and pigs. Why bother with another reboot Kickstarter? So join the, uh, whatever, is this a space game still? Whatever it is, get your Sodawolf Mark 2 thing. It has torpedoes. You can fly it inside a bigger ship and put cargo in the goblin. Give it a shot, dummy.

Buy ten of them with the money you were saving for your kids' college fund. These things are sure to go up in value. It'll all be a sound investment. The guy responsible for the Wing Commander movie is making this game. What could go wrong?

I love that link.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on December 09, 2013, 07:33:22 PM
The New Ships Available for Star Citizen (http://www.somethingawful.com/news/star-citizen-gravytrain/)  :why_so_serious:

(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7945646592/hC34EFC8A/)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on December 11, 2013, 05:00:36 PM
A lot of those limited edition ships did indeed turn out to be an excellent value. You could have doubled, tripled, quintrupled your initial investment.

Of course, much like with bitcoin, hindsight does not make something a wise investment.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on December 17, 2013, 04:23:51 AM
DOOOOM AND DESPAIR!!!

Dogfighting module delayed a couple months (long post, quoted in the spoiler). Preview of the module during a 2-hour livestream on December 20th, which will also include other stuff about Squadron 42 and the Hangar Module :

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13432-Letter-From-The-Chairman-On-Dogfighting



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on December 17, 2013, 05:07:43 AM
Well, here we go. The excuse phase.

"We have so much money we can't develop a game while we decide what to do with all that money."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on December 17, 2013, 05:10:05 AM
I read it more as "The dogfighting module was just going to be a cheap gimmick to raise more money, but you already gave us all that money, so now we're just going to work on our backend for a while"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on December 17, 2013, 05:13:13 AM
Might be, but wasn't the modular system supposed to be the cornerstone of their game building philosophy?

edit: my forecast is that if the dogfight video isn't substantial and full of actual content, this game will never even reach playable stage. They're going to spend all the money deciding what to do with the money. And a few sports cars.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on December 17, 2013, 05:32:33 AM
Well, here we go. The excuse phase.

"We have so much money we can't develop a game while we decide what to do with all that money."

You never had that kind of money, so don't judge.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sir T on December 17, 2013, 06:01:34 AM
This may be the beginning of the age of popcorn.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: DraconianOne on December 17, 2013, 07:44:23 AM

Wow.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on December 17, 2013, 08:26:25 AM
Are we really surprised?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on December 17, 2013, 08:37:31 AM
Bored waiting for the dogfighting module? Buy another ship for $250 you farting fuckshit. CHRIS ROBERTS™ i cannot wait for the dogfighting module


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on December 17, 2013, 08:44:55 AM
Millions of dollars just means more broken promises.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on December 17, 2013, 09:14:16 AM
You guys are so cynical.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Shannow on December 17, 2013, 09:31:45 AM

\/ \/ \/


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on December 17, 2013, 09:49:14 AM
DOOOOM AND DESPAIR!!!

Dogfighting module delayed a couple months (long post, quoted in the spoiler). Preview of the module during a 2-hour livestream on December 20th, which will also include other stuff about Squadron 42 and the Hangar Module :

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13432-Letter-From-The-Chairman-On-Dogfighting



Stop, the room is spinning. Let me gather my wits and read this again. A delay?  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on December 17, 2013, 10:22:46 AM
Well, here we go. The excuse phase.

"We have so much money we can't develop a game while we decide what to do with all that money."

You never had that kind of money, so don't judge.

Yeah I know. I'd be giggling and rubbing it all over myself.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on December 18, 2013, 09:57:30 AM
This has been posted on the Elite Dangerous Youtube Channell but I'll post it in the Star Citizen's thread cause it belongs in both but no one reads the other. Anyway, it's a cool interview that took place a year ago where Chris Roberts and David Braben talk about the future of their crowdfunded games. A lovely video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoLYNN7NltY)

In the remote chance that someone here is too young to know stuff, Chris Roberts would have never made Wing Commander or Star Citizen without David Braben's Elite, although for fairness Roberts points out maybe the biggest difference between their two design philosophies: crafted content for Roberts, procedural content for Braben. Also, interviewe Gary Whitta is an old "gaming journalist" from the 80s and 90s, perfect for the context.

"Chris, Kudos to you this is pretty amazing. You started with a 500k dollars goal, and you are currently at 2.1M, your funding is more than four times over..."

 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on December 18, 2013, 08:57:50 PM
This has been posted on the Elite Dangerous Youtube Channell but I'll post it in the Star Citizen's thread cause it belongs in both but no one reads the other. Anyway, it's a cool interview that took place a year ago where Chris Roberts and David Braben talk about the future of their crowdfunded games. A lovely video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoLYNN7NltY)

In the remote chance that someone here is too young to know stuff, Chris Roberts would have never made Wing Commander or Star Citizen without David Braben's Elite, although for fairness Roberts points out maybe the biggest difference between their two design philosophies: crafted content for Roberts, procedural content for Braben. Also, interviewe Gary Whitta is an old "gaming journalist" from the 80s and 90s, perfect for the context.

"Chris, Kudos to you this is pretty amazing. You started with a 500k dollars goal, and you are currently at 2.1M, your funding is more than four times over..."

 :awesome_for_real:

Elite Dangerous actually looks like its a game now though, in alpha where people can shoot at shit. The alpha only costs like 200 bucks...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on December 19, 2013, 03:29:29 AM
"Ten for the Chairman" video (segment that lately has started airing during the weekly Wingman's Hangar, but this one is standalone), where Chris Roberts answers some more questions about the Dogfighting module (yep, you can call it a "damage control" video):

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13436-Ten-For-The-Chairman-Episode-3

Details about tomorrow's livestream:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13437-Youre-Invited-Livestream-Details

Quote
Greetings Citizens,

First of all, we would like to thank you all for the incredible support regarding the Dogfighting announcement. The response from the community has been more than we could have expected; your appreciation for this project was never in question, and we are impressed that you have a genuine understanding of how game development works. Thank you, sincerely, for your support.

On Friday, Star Citizen developers in Austin, Manchester and Los Angeles will be joining you for a multipart livestream event in order to share our current status. We would like to take questions from the community for the event, and have established three forum threads to draw from. If you have a question for the team, please post it there before the event!

Foundry 42() (Squadron 42)
CIG Austin() (Hangar Patch 10)
CIG Los Angeles() (Dogfighting)

The show will open at 11 AM CST (-5 GMT) with Chris Roberts and the team in Los Angeles. Then we’ll move across the pond to check in with the team at Foundry 42. They’ve just moved in to their new office and are eager to show you around… and share the current status of Squadron 42.

The stream will continue with the epic 50th episode of Wingman’s Hangar and then Hangar Q&A with the team in Austin. It concludes with Chris Roberts and the LA team demonstrating Dogfighting and answering some of your burning questions!

In other news, CIG Austin itself will move its HQ to a much bigger place starting on December 28th (after a longer than expected back and forth checks in other places....drop by and say "hi" on the behalf of F13, Schild  :why_so_serious:)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on December 27, 2013, 09:35:37 AM
What became of this livestream? Gorgeous footage of an awesome game or not?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on December 27, 2013, 07:20:40 PM
http://kotaku.com/30-years-later-one-mans-still-trying-to-fix-video-gam-1490377821

lol


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Goreschach on December 27, 2013, 09:23:13 PM
I knew a guy named Chris once.

True story.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on December 27, 2013, 11:57:48 PM
I knew a guy named Chris once.

True story.
Was he gaming's second greatest conman with a jar of Magic Beads?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Goreschach on December 28, 2013, 08:48:59 AM
I knew a guy named Chris once.

True story.
Was he gaming's second greatest conman with a jar of Magic Beads?

No, but he had his own last name.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on December 28, 2013, 08:58:24 PM
Was he the Governor of New Jersey?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on December 29, 2013, 06:08:13 AM
They put up the stream on Youtube, and the gameplay part is about 7 minutes long, starting at 1:27 or so. There's basically nothing in it. Seriously, the game has no assets except for asteroids and the ships they've sold. This game is never coming out. NEVER. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw7SYWuV_ns


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on December 29, 2013, 07:29:10 AM
Did people actually like the gameplay of Wing Commander?

I always thought WC was super boring and the main selling point was the cutscene stuff. Making a space shooter is tough IMO, because space is so empty it often feels like you aren't really moving and you end up feeling more like a rotating turret than a ship.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on December 29, 2013, 07:58:34 AM
I was more of an X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter fan myself.  But in any event, that gameplay was at least gameplay. 

That being said, I think the actual space combat part of this game is the least interesting part of what they are proposing to me personally.  If this game ends up being a big thing, I can't imagine it's going to be because the space combat is just so amazing.  It'll be because all of the sandbox elements they promise actually work. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Merusk on December 29, 2013, 08:19:30 AM
So... Eve 2.0.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on December 29, 2013, 09:30:19 AM
So... Eve 2.0.

Well, that's essentially what they are promising.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on January 01, 2014, 08:16:11 AM
Eve with dogfighting.  That's all anyone ever wanted, really, so hopes reside upon it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Merusk on January 01, 2014, 08:22:00 AM
Yeah but that lets me know I can totally ignore it.  Eve bored me even ignoring the 'sit around and wait' combat 'patrols'


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on January 01, 2014, 04:42:39 PM
Eve worked best for me when I knew other people were doing that and the bit part I played was hauling shit around to support it.

If hauling shit around includes realtime dogfighting, I'll definitely give it a whirl. That's really the only reason I even bother reading this ponzi scheme thread. Eventually someone will know enough to be able to confirm what we may get.

Or what got cancelled  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on January 03, 2014, 11:14:55 AM
CIG Austin HQ moving to the new office location (no gameplay! :P):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1jMrsAKaqo


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: slog on January 03, 2014, 11:26:18 AM
Eve with dogfighting.  That's all anyone ever wanted, really, so hopes reside upon it.

I played this game.  it was called Jumpgate.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on January 10, 2014, 12:32:49 AM
Did people actually like the gameplay of Wing Commander?

I did. But it was years ago and the combat itself was pretty basic.

The FMV acting in some of the later games was hilarious too.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Draegan on January 13, 2014, 02:40:37 PM
Eve with dogfighting.  That's all anyone ever wanted, really, so hopes reside upon it.

I played this game.  it was called Jumpgate.

That game was fun too. Damn you NetDevil!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Severian on January 13, 2014, 08:28:41 PM

I played this game.  it was called Jumpgate.

That game was fun too. Damn you NetDevil!

You may still be able to play it if you want to, Netdevil be damned. Here: http://jumpgate-tri.org/


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on January 13, 2014, 08:48:36 PM
Did people actually like the gameplay of Wing Commander?


No. Don't say that.
The true quality of Wing Commander lies with the dynamic campaign where failure does not meant a retry like TIE Fighter / X-WING.
That is one thing I liked about it, the dogfighting was more arcadey and pacier than TIE / XW - but I can dig it. Its nice dynamic soundtrack felt right. Sparks flew and display explodes, theme changes. Gauges all red, no shields, oh boy it's that 'EJECT EJECT' theme.
You had a hard mission you couldn't beat? RTB, campaign ends in a somber tone, future battles becomes harder but still finishable.
There's even a final mission where the whole war has gone bad and the humans are now retreating instead and you had to cover your carrier's retreat.
It's way ahead of its time. But WC 5: Prophecy dropped this idea completely as the FMVs gets more expensive and you can't re-shoot 39246792 cutscenes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on January 14, 2014, 03:03:13 AM
You had a hard mission you couldn't beat? RTB, campaign ends in a somber tone, future battles becomes harder but still finishable.

That feature would have made the game suck for me.  If missions are getting hard, then I want future missions to be easier, because I want to finish the game and see the damn endings without having to become a master of the joystick.

Adaptive difficulty settings without the player even realizing, now that's a thought.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on January 17, 2014, 05:46:37 PM
Here's a video of Chris Roberts visiting the "Foundry 42" studio in Manchester (which, again, is entirely devoted to the single player game), with his brother Erin showing him around.

http://youtu.be/0T_oJlZ8pGI

I posted this because the awkwardness of it all is absolutely off scale  :grin:

On a slightly more serious note, here's Episode 5 of the "Ten for the Chairman" segment:

http://youtu.be/RtyZzO5OrE0


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sobelius on January 18, 2014, 12:33:15 AM
They put up the stream on Youtube, and the gameplay part is about 7 minutes long, starting at 1:27 or so. There's basically nothing in it. Seriously, the game has no assets except for asteroids and the ships they've sold. This game is never coming out. NEVER. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw7SYWuV_ns

I just heard about the game so came pretty late to the party. Pledged for the 300i -- the vision sold me, as did the ability to play the single player story as multiplayer so I can enjoy the elements of the game I like with friends without having some idiot ganking me outside "safe" space just because he can.

The nice thing about coming late to the party is that I don't feel like I've been waiting for this -- it's all new. The hangar is cool -- dogfight module sounds cool and I assume it's coming along. So many games to play in the meantime I figured it was worth throwing money at it to get in whenever it is ready.  They've raised almost $37 Mil  -- nice. With the exception of entering my birth date, the whole sign-up and buy experience was flawless and fast. I paid, downloaded and was walking around the hangar within 30 minutes of my decision to pledge. Here's hoping that level of quality experience extends to rest of game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on January 18, 2014, 07:44:00 AM
Hahahahahah.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on January 21, 2014, 03:29:43 PM
The (for now web-based only, of course) Organization system has been launched. The main thing to know is that you need to have a game package in order to take part (which means, create or join an organization) in it.

Here are the official news article and the FAQs:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13488-Organization-System-Launch
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/faq/orgs

FAQ excerpt:
Quote
What is an Archetype?

An organization is basically what its members and administrators want it to be. We have set up 5 basic archetypes for organizations, but they are exclusively role-play elements, and have no incidence whatsoever on the system, or the future game.

Corporation – a for-profit business entity. A corporation is a great choice for everything from shipping flo-pets to Goss II to organizing a hostile takeover of Origin Jumpworks.
PMC (Private Military Company) – For organizations with a taste for combat. Focuses for PMCs include escorting cargo runs, hunting for pirates or helping the UEE take on the Vanduul.
Faith – Organizations that have come together for a single cause or under a single banner. This could be rebels fighting for Terran independence… or the devout followers of the LAMP!
Syndicate – Common interest groups for those who operate on the edges (or outside) of the law. There’s safety in numbers when you’re moving contraband through Spider or preying on hapless cargo ships.
Organization – Want to make your own way without any previous association? Feel free to keep with the default nondescript type!

Again the Archetype does not have any impact on how the Organization works as an entity.

What are ranks and roles?

The administrators of an Organization have the option to attribute a Rank to any member : this is purely a specific status to signify the importance that a member has earned in the organization. It can be wor with pride, but offers no specific rights.
On the other hand, an organization’s Founder can give Roles to other members, in order to delegate some of the org’s management.

A member can have any number of roles :

Owner can do anything, from recruiting to customization, to simply disbanding the organization.
Recruitment can send out invites to the org, and accept or deny applicants
Officer can manage the org’s members, and their roles/ranks, as well as moderating the Org’s private Chat channel.
Marketing can change the org’s public appearance, official texts, history, manifesto and charter.

I like the fact that you can get creative with roles and ranks  :drill:

Orgs main page:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/community/orgs

Looking forward to the F13's fleet  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Draegan on January 24, 2014, 10:51:21 AM

I played this game.  it was called Jumpgate.

That game was fun too. Damn you NetDevil!

You may still be able to play it if you want to, Netdevil be damned. Here: http://jumpgate-tri.org/

Oh fuck you very much for that link. Just what I need, more games for me to play that I have no time for.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on February 13, 2014, 05:18:44 PM
Yeah, I'm not a tl;dr guy  :why_so_serious:

A couple of updates:

- Bar any last minute disaster, the Dogfighting Module will be unveiled at Pax East (the event itself will be on April 10th), and be available to backers a few days after that. Watch the following video from approx. 9:37 to 11:40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuS4wwPPeFc

- An important news from that segment is the first iteration of their world server, which came online this week, and that will serve as the backbone for the dogfighting module and the Persistent Universe in general (and the main reason for the delay of the DFM)

- The ships are now all receiving the "Physically Based Rendering" - or "PBR" - treatment (beside other modifications to their shape, cockpit etc.); the hangar module will be patched in a few days with some more fluff, then the next patch will be all PBR based;

- As an example, here's the current, PBR version of the Vanduul Scythe:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13568-Scythe-PBR-Update

- More Vanduul concept art at this link (Scythe update, Vanduul Bomber and Harvester):
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13567-Vanduul-Update-Gallery

- Sorry, can't find the link to the interview/forum post/video or whatever, but here's the latest on Squadron 42: the plan is now moving toward episodic content, without having an alpha or beta. Still, they're not talking about chunks of 3-4 hours, but big portions of the game. Consider that the total amount of missions will be about 50 (5 million stretch goal), not counting the first "expansion disk" (I'm a oldie!! :). Of course, 50 is probably, well, the total amount, including branching you will probably see only in a second playthrough or after a re-load.
---

Finally, here's a couple snippets I took from two forum posts  detailing how the whole project is being developed as a worldwide effort:

From Chris Roberts:
http://partedveil.com/index.php?p=2&quote=1909659

From Eric Peterson:
http://partedveil.com/index.php?p=1&quote=105396

I also read a post I can't find at the moment, where a member of the Manchester studio said there are now 33 people working on the single-player game, but they aim to reach a final tally of about 40 (or was it 50? can't remember).

Ooook, sorry for the long post, carry on :)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Xuri on February 13, 2014, 08:46:31 PM
So. Has anyone created any in-game religions for Star Citizen yet? After seeing that there will be a "Faith" archetype for organizations, my mind is starting to weave fanciful stories that involve taking on a L. Ron Hubbard-like persona and creating a fanatic religious cult. For the money, of course.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on February 14, 2014, 07:15:29 AM
With celebrity endorsements.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on February 14, 2014, 08:24:19 AM
So. Has anyone created any in-game religions for Star Citizen yet? After seeing that there will be a "Faith" archetype for organizations, my mind is starting to weave fanciful stories that involve taking on a L. Ron Hubbard-like persona and creating a fanatic religious cult. For the money, of course.
No, but I'd be willing to be a convert for the fun of it. ;D


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on February 14, 2014, 12:05:53 PM
So. Has anyone created any in-game religions for Star Citizen yet? After seeing that there will be a "Faith" archetype for organizations, my mind is starting to weave fanciful stories that involve taking on a L. Ron Hubbard-like persona and creating a fanatic religious cult. For the money, of course.

If any player base was ripe for faith-based monetary extractions, it is this one. Good plan.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on February 14, 2014, 12:08:03 PM
Star Evangelist


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on February 14, 2014, 01:15:29 PM
Part of my regular gaming circle has formed a "faith" group, but our MMG guild name has been "Cult of [redacted]" for over ten years now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Der Helm on February 14, 2014, 02:42:25 PM
If any player base was ripe for faith-based monetary extractions, it is this one. Good plan.
Isn't that what this thread is about ?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on February 14, 2014, 08:49:52 PM
I like how the game industry pretends that "Physically Based Rendering" is some sort of new technology.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on February 19, 2014, 05:41:22 PM
Today's "Wingman's Hangar" showed some nice stuff related to Squadron 42:

- First of all, here's concept art, sketches and modeling WIP of a mining station and robots. It seems that the first few missions of the single-player campaign will revolve around a mining operation (and will also introduce players to the Mining mechanic, which will be one of the activities in the Persistent Universe...hopefully a little more involving that in EVE :P)

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/13585-Gallery-Squadron-42-Concept-Art

- Even better, here's some WIP in motion (still a lot of "grey boxing" going on at this stage, but hey...DAT HUGE mining droid  :awesome_for_real: :drill:):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fllp5o5Qkq0  (from 4:47 'til 9:40)

- Also, toward the end of the show, (from 23:50 to 24:46), there is a Skype session with S42 Lead Designer Phil Meller; he declares that, hopefully, the first 10 missions of S42 will be ready for public consumption within the end of the year; then, 10 missions every month after the initial batch (so, he basically confirms the shift toward episodic content)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sir T on February 22, 2014, 07:15:13 AM
Might I suggest the Church of the Pyramid, who invited the faithful to enlightenment by following the meditation steps of the most holy Ponzi.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on March 04, 2014, 06:21:10 AM
Here's the first "monthly report", a new feature on the SC website. It's a long but useful read if you want to know the current status of the project, how teams are split around the world, what they're working on and more:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13610-Monthly-Report-February-2014



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on March 04, 2014, 08:37:26 AM
212 developers on the project? This thing has Curt Schilling disease.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on March 04, 2014, 12:51:29 PM
Oh look, it's more shit about fundraising. What a surprise.

Meanwhile the December dogfighting module is coming out, in half-finished form, in April.

They have 212 developers. Apparently 210 of them are busy writing fundraising status reports, leaving only 2 to actually work on the game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Rasix on March 04, 2014, 12:52:37 PM
The bitcoin integration stretch goal is within sight!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on March 04, 2014, 01:16:01 PM
212 developers on the project?

This number gives me pause. The project has bloated up to "AAA" on manpower and scope, but the budget is not growing at an equal pace. Unless there are private investors in the background.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: satael on March 04, 2014, 01:50:33 PM
40 million for 212 "developers" to make the game goes a long way but I wonder how much more they will be able to get once the game actually releases since the most ardent fans have spent their money by that time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on March 04, 2014, 01:59:35 PM
He first said 212 "people" and then he said 212 "developers".  I have to assume he meant the former so that includes admin, legal, clerical, accounting and so on.  Even including contractors in developing nations if there were actually 212 programmers/artists/story people that would be crazy huge considering he has "only" forty million to work with.

Oh man I'm going to have to delve into the dark pit of official boards and assume he has retreated from the 212 "developers" statement.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ingmar on March 04, 2014, 02:04:41 PM
Maybe we missed a donation tier that gets you to be listed as a developer, like in the McQuaid game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on March 04, 2014, 03:52:29 PM
Yes that number is quite worrisome, especially in light of what happened in the fairy land of Rhode Island  :why_so_serious: ; no matter the fact that Roberts seems to be actually a bit more competent on the business side of things (and hopefully with good advisors as well).

The usual argument used when talking about crowdfunded projects and related development costs, is that a really tiny percentage goes to marketing and other fluff, so that most of that money will be used to actually pay those who are working for you, but yes, 212 IS a huge number. Currently, as far as I know, there are partners working with CIG for the current show "The Next Great Starship", so that should be off the pledgers' shoulders. Plus, I don't know how wealthy is/was Mr. Roberts before kicking off this whole thing and/or if the (very good) prototype he showed back in 2012 was financed by external sources.
-----

Regarding the Dogfighting Module, well, first release never meant to be "final", just like the Elite:Dangerous one (actually, if all goes well, v1 of the DFM will be both single and multiplayer)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on March 04, 2014, 03:56:19 PM
I stand by my statement that this is a scam where they know they will deliver on 20% of their promises or less by the time the cash runs out.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on April 02, 2014, 03:14:56 AM
Ok, time for the "real" March Monthly report. Lots of stuff happening on all fronts, and in 8 days they will unveil the Dogfighting Module at PAX East:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13785-Monthly-Report-March-2014


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: KallDrexx on April 02, 2014, 07:43:29 AM
(http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/PEW.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on April 02, 2014, 08:09:04 AM
See? He's ruling and coordinating the studios with an iron fist!  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on April 02, 2014, 09:26:47 AM
While not as fervently hopeful as many of the people interested in star citizen, I still think we are going to get at least a decent space game. My reasoning is that will happen mostly because Chris Roberts himself wants a decent space game to play himself.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on April 02, 2014, 10:38:30 AM
Meanwhile, the newest HUD mockup is a nice desktop wallpaper (1920x1200 image):



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on April 08, 2014, 03:03:37 AM
So, as I write this there are only 2,800 alpha slots left; CIG just released an "Alpha Slots FAQ":

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13802-Alpha-Slot-FAQ

Quote
What are Alpha Slots?

Packages with Alpha Slots will be allowed free access to all of Star Citizen’s pre-release modules, including the Dogfighting, First Person Shooter and others. Our goal was to make Alpha Slots available to our earliest backers, the people who first helped make Star Citizen’s existence possible!

How was the number of Alpha Slots generated?

The initial number of Alpha Slots was calculated based on the number of ‘universe servers’ the programming team believed we could reliably budget for our module rollout. As Star Citizen’s funding has increased, we have been able to go wider and increase the number of first pass slots (you may recall that an earlier stretch goal created more slots by dedicating funds specifically to this purpose.)

Do I need an Alpha Slot to play the Dogfighting Module?

Every account with an Alpha Slot will be eligible to play the Dogfighting Module. If your package does not include one of the ships scheduled for the first release, you will be able to play with a ‘loaner.’ Later backers who do not have an Alpha Slot on their account will be given the option of purchasing a Dogfighting Pass to join the fun!

Can I still play without an Alpha Slot?

Players who join Star Citizen after the slots are gone will have the option of purchasing $5 passes to play the individual alpha modules, with the money going to cover the additional server bandwidth necessary. (For phased launches, like the upcoming Dogfighting Module, passes will not be available until servers have been allotted to all existing backers.) Note that you will need a separate pass for each future module.

Why didn’t I need an Alpha Slot for the Hangar Module?

Since the Hangar Module does not have online multiplayer enabled, we felt comfortable making it available to all backers regardless of Alpha Slot status.

Will you ever add more Alpha Slots?

No. Once the current allotment is over, no more Alpha Slots will be added to the counter. Going forward, players who miss out on the free Alpha Slots may test individual modules by purchasing a module pass (which covers the cost of additional hardware) in addition to their ship package.

What are Beta Slots?

Beta Slots refer to those assignments for joining the future beta test of Star Citizen’s persistent universe. As this launch is further in the future, we have not yet made a final decision on the number of Beta Slots that will be necessary.

* Current price for the cheapest "alpha slot" package (all modules included,) for new backers : $40 (also includes single-player campaign and Star Citizen proper)

* Each, standalone "module pass" will cost $5 (will include only the specific module you purchased the pass for and won't include the finished game(s), of course)

* If they plan some sort of "staggered"/ phased release of any module, priority will be given to alpha slot packages, then standalone "module pass" buyers.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Velorath on April 08, 2014, 04:14:41 AM
Nice, it had been a while since they'd given us an update on what new microtransactions they're going to offer to keep the money coming in.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on April 08, 2014, 08:29:03 AM
(http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/pyramid-scheme-2.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Goreschach on April 08, 2014, 08:57:16 AM
That's really an unfair comparison.




If this was a pyramid scheme, someone other than Roberts would actually have made money.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on April 08, 2014, 09:02:40 AM
Yeah there is one vendor and no one is trying to get teams of people under them to resell spaceships.

I thought people had settled on ponzi scheme?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ezrast on April 08, 2014, 10:25:17 AM
A few people have to see a return on their investment for it to be a Ponzi Scheme. I think it's just "taking people's money."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: tazelbain on April 08, 2014, 10:45:43 AM
"Selling the Brooklyn bridge" i.e. straight up confidence scheme. Odin would be proud.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on April 08, 2014, 11:15:20 AM
It's the worst kind of pyramid scheme. There are different levels of commitment and buying in, but nobody is getting anything except Roberts!  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on April 08, 2014, 01:15:53 PM
They've probably blown through most of the money already, with all the new premises and gigantic number of employees. Gotta get some more!



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on April 08, 2014, 08:59:38 PM
My prediction is that this won't end with a bang, just will get fewer and fewer updates until it's forgotten, Chris Roberts MIA.  Was on page 2 here for a bit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on April 09, 2014, 02:33:30 AM
As much as I really disliked the way they kept pushing for money, way before delivering anything, and the way people got obsessed with it, I predict it will be a real game at some point and most likely a decent one. Possibly good too, after many fixes and patches. I also predict it will have lots of excuses. Loooooooooots of it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on April 09, 2014, 12:04:38 PM
I think I've said it before, but I predict they release 15% of what they promise, make apologies, and then fold up shop since they have no legal liability or actual creditors.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yegolev on April 09, 2014, 02:12:49 PM
Ever the optimist.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Goreschach on April 09, 2014, 03:32:50 PM
If I wanted to give them too much credit, I'd suspect that this is Springtime for Hitler.

The reason for them setting up such a large development outlay, with the multiple divisions and the mocap studio and all that, then becomes obvious. All they need to do is ship a half baked product to avoid fraud charges. After the game bombs and they run out of money, they then turn around and sell the studio itself for a good 20 million.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on April 09, 2014, 05:39:52 PM
They've probably blown through most of the money already, with all the new premises and gigantic number of employees. Gotta get some more!



(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a9/38_Studios_Logo.jpg)

You called?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on April 10, 2014, 08:11:17 PM
livestream starting in about 20-30 minutes:

http://twitch.tv/roberts_space_ind_ch_1


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on April 10, 2014, 09:51:22 PM
Chris Roberts appears hopelessly confused by his own game. He didn't even know how to launch it and once he got into it just spun around in a circle for 30 seconds then accidentally turned his HUD off or something...now he is restarting the game and once again can't figure out how to launch it. I kind of feel sorry for him, he's like a befuddled grandpappy.

I get the impression that he probably swings by the office to check the game out like once a week for an hour. I guess he's a hand off "vision guy" or some shit.




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on April 10, 2014, 09:52:36 PM
I bet he knows how to log in to his offshore banking account.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on April 10, 2014, 09:58:40 PM
A ha ha they just fucking cancelled the show without really showing the multiplayer because they couldn't get it working.

This is hilarious. The guy is clueless about his own game.

"How do I start it? What do I press? Is it even on this machine? What's happening now? Are we in the game? Are we in matchmaking? Are we waiting for players? Why can't I move? What's going on?"

Completely embarrassing. It's one thing to have technical issues at a live event but the guy has no grasp on how his game works.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on April 10, 2014, 10:31:28 PM
(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120402225423/random-ness/images/3/34/Michael_Jackson_popcorn.gif) More please.

Quote
Dogpatch090:  What are people complaining about? Its in pre alpha
Quote
My_ass_is_manly:  this is the fundamental problem of player backed games, no one realises that we're just alpha testers, we're supposed to take the brunt of the bugs and glitche
Quote
Barf_bag: He is the concept, programmers are the ones building it
Quote
Gofr5:  I just loved how so many ppl were like "get this guy off, he sucks, show someone else". lol so many ppl didn't who he was.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on April 11, 2014, 05:32:49 AM
Why would he give a fuck about the game, he's already got the money.

fake edit: I feel this is kinda significant, this was supposed to be his labor of love and yet he couldn't be arsed to prepare for a public showing. Freudian slip if you will.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on April 11, 2014, 06:00:28 AM
I think this livestream once again showed that they simply suck at organizing this sort of thing exclusively in-house, so they better drop it and just pre-record stuff in their studio(s); regarding the bits of the dogfighting module they showed, at least the Player vs. AI part, IMO it was very good for an alpha: really liked the physics, graphics and HUD (hopefully we'll be able to minimize/collapse the majority of its elements). 

Roberts said they plan to release v1 at the end of April/beginning of May, so hopefully it will be in a much better shape after 3+ weeks of bug fixing.

"Ever the optimist"  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on April 11, 2014, 12:26:20 PM
Love that this thread and the Elite:Dangerous thread are so close to each other in this forum atm  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on April 11, 2014, 04:25:09 PM
I think this livestream once again showed that they simply suck at organizing this sort of thing exclusively in-house, so they better drop it and just pre-record stuff in their studio(s); regarding the bits of the dogfighting module they showed, at least the Player vs. AI part, IMO it was very good for an alpha: really liked the physics, graphics and HUD (hopefully we'll be able to minimize/collapse the majority of its elements). 

The HUD was way too busy and the 3d zooming pieces effect when you lock on was incredibly distracting.

The graphics were good.

The physics...like crashing into an asteroid at full speed then awkwardly rubbing against it?

My takeaway was that they have a good art team and that's pretty much it. The definitely haven't solved the problem space combat games tend to have where it feels like you're a motionless turret. The game as a whole also doesn't appear very functional in terms of combat either - for the brief moment that multiplayer worked Roberts had no idea where the enemies were or who was shooting him - whatever radar system they had appeared to be fairly useless.

It looked like a pretty mess to me basically. And a lot of the pretty comes from the fact that the dogfights take place in arted-up arenas, I have no idea how that will translate to all of space.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on April 12, 2014, 02:58:35 AM
My takeaway was that they have a good art team and that's pretty much it.

You can sell a lot of things with pretty pictures alone.

I think I've said it before here, but I'm sure SC will launch something (eventually), but the waves of disappointment from pre-payers will be immense.

I'm also very, very disappointed that pay-for-alpha has become an accepted thing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Draegan on April 30, 2014, 09:21:11 AM
Pay for access has always been a thing. You don't have to pay for it. You just have to wait like you normally would for a game. Stop whining about it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on April 30, 2014, 09:23:45 AM
Pay for access has always been a thing.
:headscratch:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Count Nerfedalot on April 30, 2014, 01:07:43 PM
Pay for access has always been a thing.
:headscratch:


If you knew the right people maybe? I know there were times in the past I would have paid for early access but it wasn't available, to me anyway.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Draegan on April 30, 2014, 03:23:07 PM
It's just a generalization. If you want something early, you could always get it if you paid the right price.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yegolev on April 30, 2014, 03:24:06 PM
THE IRON PRICE


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on April 30, 2014, 03:45:52 PM
THE IRON PRICE

You're having an odd day.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yegolev on April 30, 2014, 04:26:43 PM
Seems pretty normal to me.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85916/orange_tux_dance.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on April 30, 2014, 04:50:23 PM
Probably so, maybe I'm having an odd day.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on May 10, 2014, 05:16:09 AM
Dogfighting module delayed again?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13863-Arena-Commander-Weekly-Report-May-5-9

Quote
I know you’re all impatient to get your hands on the DFM, and believe me we’re all very eager to have it in the state that we can start to roll out it to all of you but as in any ambitious undertaking there’s still some details that we’re busy wrapping up in terms of the backend end, build deployment, matchmaking and network stability over the internet – All the while trying to balance and tune the core gameplay of the DFM.

We’ll have more exact dates to share by the end of next week, which we’ll update you with in next week’s report, but the goal is to start rolling out the DFM towards the end of this month – this will be staged as scaling to 250,000+ players is much more like launching a finished game as opposed to an early pre-alpha for gameplay feedback – our plan is to have Vanduul Swarm (single player against AI) available to everyone from the start, and then give people access to the multiplayer servers in increasing numbers as long as the system holds up. (To answer your next question, the rollout will be based on Citizen number; the earlier you backed, the earlier you will gain access to multiplayer dogfighting.)

We don’t know the maximum number of concurrent players or some of the backend server issues (as we’ll literally be dynamically spinning up hundreds of servers on demand depending on demand) we’re planning to go slow and cautious at first, while we make sure everything works. So please be patient and bear with us. Remember that with Arena Commander we are launching something much more akin to a full game (its feature set is more in line to an action arena combat game like World of Tanks) and to do that for the sheer number of backers that Star Citizen has is a challenge in itself!

— Chris Roberts


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yegolev on May 12, 2014, 01:09:05 PM
1. We are working out the following details: "the entire game"
2. We don't know anything about the server tech we chose, except that it is expensive.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on May 12, 2014, 01:35:20 PM
I wonder what legal recourse people will have if they cracked the books on this project.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Simond on May 12, 2014, 03:10:33 PM
Dogfighting module delayed again?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13863-Arena-Commander-Weekly-Report-May-5-9

Quote
I know you’re all impatient to get your hands on the DFM, and believe me we’re all very eager to have it in the state that we can start to roll out it to all of you but as in any ambitious undertaking there’s still some details that we’re busy wrapping up in terms of the backend end, build deployment, matchmaking and network stability over the internet – All the while trying to balance and tune the core gameplay of the DFM.

We’ll have more exact dates to share by the end of next week, which we’ll update you with in next week’s report, but the goal is to start rolling out the DFM towards the end of this month – this will be staged as scaling to 250,000+ players is much more like launching a finished game as opposed to an early pre-alpha for gameplay feedback – our plan is to have Vanduul Swarm (single player against AI) available to everyone from the start, and then give people access to the multiplayer servers in increasing numbers as long as the system holds up. (To answer your next question, the rollout will be based on Citizen number; the earlier you backed, the earlier you will gain access to multiplayer dogfighting.)

We don’t know the maximum number of concurrent players or some of the backend server issues (as we’ll literally be dynamically spinning up hundreds of servers on demand depending on demand) we’re planning to go slow and cautious at first, while we make sure everything works. So please be patient and bear with us. Remember that with Arena Commander we are launching something much more akin to a full game (its feature set is more in line to an action arena combat game like World of Tanks) and to do that for the sheer number of backers that Star Citizen has is a challenge in itself!

— Chris Roberts

Someone email him a copy of the Elite: Dangerous alpha please.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on May 12, 2014, 03:26:29 PM
What's surprised me most about this process is how at the beginning - as I think I phrased it in this thread - Roberts had a plan and Braben only had an idea.

Yet since then, Braben has proved far better about sticking to his plan and executing on it. Quietly, competently, and without any upsell.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on May 12, 2014, 03:38:04 PM
How much is Roberts McQuaiding for himself?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on May 12, 2014, 03:43:39 PM
The funny thing is that Braben could totally make more money at this point if he decided to go the Roberts way. While I am not happy with the "200£ for Alpha" package, you gotta give him credit that he's obviously using the money barrier as a way to protect the environment, instead of allowing entitled morons to poison it one "20£ package" purchase at a time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on May 12, 2014, 03:47:29 PM
The funny thing is that Braben could totally make more money at this point i