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Author Topic: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN  (Read 938018 times)
Mrbloodworth
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Reply #210 on: July 02, 2013, 01:33:02 PM

Perhaps you guys should pay more attention to the weekly Wingmans hangers, lore releases, AMA's, development videos and other live streams they do to figure out why so many feel inclined to donate. There is possibly more interaction and open development in SC then many other previous games, this garners a large amount of confidence. They have laid almost all thoughts on design in the open and give constant development updates. You get even more info if you have subscribed. They also had a in engine, and in game videos before even asking for money. That's a far cry for many MANY kickstarter or crowed funded games.  In fact they just finished up a 24 hour live stream on the development a few days ago. They didn't just toss out a kickstarter then go dark like so many others.

If you are only looking at the official videos I could see your confusion.

RSI Constellation footage from 24 hour live stream!

Also, they just hit 12 million. That's one million in a weekend. At 13 million they add Frigates to the game.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 01:34:38 PM by Mrbloodworth »

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Reply #211 on: July 02, 2013, 02:43:04 PM

I am on board, I paid, and I am loving the promises and the few things I have seen. Question is, "is it fun?" And I think that's a hard answer to extrapolate from those videos. Are they COOOOOL? Yes. Is the game fun enough that it's obviously a great investment to put hundreds (or thousand) of dollars into it _at this point_?

When I talk about gameplay -and I say it's not in the video- I am wondering how much of that stuff is guaranteed to turn out FUN. And the answer is none. And that's the only thing that stops me to put in more money. Don't get me wrong, I am excited and I feel the call for my wallet. I just remember every time that there isn't a single reason to spend those money NOW. I reserved my alpha spot, I contributed to development, so you could say I placed my bet. I just think given the risk vs reward there is no point at all to put in more than 30 - 60$.

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Reply #212 on: July 02, 2013, 03:58:52 PM

That's the part that baffles me most.

Paying that amount of money for a fake ship, ok, sure maybe I won't do it, but I can see why people would once a game is established with rules that allow you to know how to be all alpha gamer with your e-peen ship.

And maybe I could see paying that much for a ship in a game that doesn't exist yet but for which you get a Fingerprints/MakerBot printed model on a pedestal, especially if you had some design decisions you could make on the textures/colors. In this scenario, even if the game never launches, at least you got something tangible to show off, to talk about that time you were part of a really cool cultural event or something.

But, $300 for a non ship in a non game where nothing but a hands on experience will even tell you whether it's fun, especially for an audience core enough to know who Chris Roberts' is and remember what Wing Commander was and probably having played enough games to rant enough about to long since learn how often high promise takes a nose dive into vapor?

I don't get it.
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Reply #213 on: July 02, 2013, 05:56:36 PM

But, $300 for a non ship in a non game where nothing but a hands on experience will even tell you whether it's fun, especially for an audience core enough to know who Chris Roberts' is and remember what Wing Commander was and probably having played enough games to rant enough about to long since learn how often high promise takes a nose dive into vapor?

I don't get it.

Because gamers have nearly always preferred potential to reality.

Roberts has basically promised everything ever asked for in a space sim. He's then getting his pre-order customers to fund it. I believe that a lot of people will be disappointed with what he actually delivers, but by then they'll have spent more money on Star Citizen than they would have to play a MMO for several years.

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Reply #214 on: July 05, 2013, 06:39:18 PM

The Star Citizen Economy.

Now this could be interesting (if it will really happen). What do you think?

EDIT: More details. Lots.


« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 06:48:09 PM by Falconeer »

Lucas
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Reply #215 on: July 06, 2013, 02:37:10 AM

I read it last night and it looks damn impressive. It *might* work because, as far as I understand, Star Citizen won't feature a single server like Eve or a traditional multi-server model, focusing instead on small "shards". But will the general economy (prices etc.) link every one of those shards together? And also, will the players shatter the developers' dreams about economy on Day 1 when there will be a massive influx of goods?

Meanwhile, 13M reached:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link//13131-13-Million
Quote
The $13 million goal adds frigates to the roster of player-flyable ships and introduces one very cool new element for gameplay: the Command and Control Center. Found as an optional seat on larger ships, the C&C lets you coordinate the battle between multiple ships: let your friends or NPCs who are flying escort know where to go and what to do.

14M:

 - Hibernation Mode: for the explorers out there, we will add the ability to save and resume while you are out in space. When not in combat, power your ship down, hit the bunk, and exit the game safely until you can resume your journey.
- Professional-quality feature-length “Behind the Scenes of Star Citizen” documentary film.
- A fourth landout option on Earth! Where will it be? London? Berlin?

15M:
- Additional flyable ship class: escort carrier
- The Upgrade Handbook: an extra 42-page manual that walks players through the process of customizing and overclocking their ship systems! (PDF free to all backers before $15 million)
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 02:39:11 AM by Lucas »

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KallDrexx
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Reply #216 on: July 06, 2013, 06:55:26 AM

Wait what?

What happens if you have to quit while you are in space and they don't hit the $14M mark?
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Reply #217 on: July 06, 2013, 06:57:56 AM

Wait what?

What happens if you have to quit while you are in space and they don't hit the $14M mark?

You probably resume travel from where you left off next time you log in?
Mrbloodworth
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Reply #218 on: July 06, 2013, 06:58:40 AM

( Econ ) Looks good to me, its like Freelancer turned to 11.

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Reply #219 on: July 06, 2013, 07:21:34 AM

Yeah, that save thing sounds weird. I love how some stuff that is absoilutely a given in any game is some sort of stretch goal here. So eventually if after having raised 25M you will find yourself unable to pilot your ship with keyboard and mouse, they can always say "Sorry, support for additional peripherals beyond joypad and Oculus Rift was the 26M stretch goal. Bummer".

Mrbloodworth
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Reply #220 on: July 06, 2013, 07:34:08 AM

You guys may be reading too much into it. That sounds like a single player option, that's an option instead of needing to land somewhere.

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Reply #221 on: July 06, 2013, 09:00:20 AM

You guys may be reading too much into it. That sounds like a single player option, that's an option instead of needing to land somewhere.

That's my point though.  I sometimes have to stop playing games at random times.  It sucks that they have to raise $1million more in order for me not to be stressed out over wheither I can quit or spend time looking for a save point.

It's only a non-issue if they have landing spots all around and it's trivial to stop what you are doing and leave, otherwise it's a pain in the ass.  And the know this, which is why they are making it a stretch goal for a game that has made millions more than they planned for.
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Reply #222 on: July 06, 2013, 02:04:11 PM

I got an email from RSI noting that today was the final day to get the "Aurora LX, ORIGIN 350r, M50, Starfarer, Caterpillar, Gladiator or Retaliator."

Mind you, of that list, only the Aurora exists as more than a name. The rest have no stats and no concept art, just a short description of what it's going to be for someday, in theory. Ohhhhh, I see.

Also, the price tags on those are in order: $25, $100, $80, $175, $225, $150, and $250. SC has already become a rich man's game.

Nothing in this post represents the views of my current or previous employers.

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Malakili
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Reply #223 on: July 06, 2013, 05:30:30 PM

I got an email from RSI noting that today was the final day to get the "Aurora LX, ORIGIN 350r, M50, Starfarer, Caterpillar, Gladiator or Retaliator."

Mind you, of that list, only the Aurora exists as more than a name. The rest have no stats and no concept art, just a short description of what it's going to be for someday, in theory. Ohhhhh, I see.

Also, the price tags on those are in order: $25, $100, $80, $175, $225, $150, and $250. SC has already become a rich man's game.

Indeed.  I know a guy who is pretty big into the game so far and keeps giving me  updates.  He says everything will be available in game via in game methods or whatever, but given the price points, I have to assume these ships are going to take a LONG time to get in game.  I have to say, the whole thing makes me feel a bit alienated from what would otherwise be a project that, at least on paper, looks like everything I'm looking for.
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Reply #224 on: July 06, 2013, 07:25:01 PM

I got an email from RSI noting that today was the final day to get the "Aurora LX, ORIGIN 350r, M50, Starfarer, Caterpillar, Gladiator or Retaliator."

Mind you, of that list, only the Aurora exists as more than a name. The rest have no stats and no concept art, just a short description of what it's going to be for someday, in theory. Ohhhhh, I see.

Also, the price tags on those are in order: $25, $100, $80, $175, $225, $150, and $250. SC has already become a rich man's game.

Indeed.  I know a guy who is pretty big into the game so far and keeps giving me  updates.  He says everything will be available in game via in game methods or whatever, but given the price points, I have to assume these ships are going to take a LONG time to get in game.  I have to say, the whole thing makes me feel a bit alienated from what would otherwise be a project that, at least on paper, looks like everything I'm looking for.

The difference between this and HEX is that people spending hundreds of dollars on Star Citizen are crazy. Never mind thousands. HEX is a clone of a fun, highly successful physical TCG and will have a secondary market. There is no prior example of Star Citizen's lofty goals ever being crystallised into a fun game - and actually MANY examples of MMO sandbox worlds that failed hard.

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Malakili
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Reply #225 on: July 06, 2013, 07:59:34 PM



The difference between this and HEX is that people spending hundreds of dollars on Star Citizen are crazy. Never mind thousands. HEX is a clone of a fun, highly successful physical TCG and will have a secondary market. There is no prior example of Star Citizen's lofty goals ever being crystallised into a fun game - and actually MANY examples of MMO sandbox worlds that failed hard.

Preaching to the choir, I made a similar point a couple of pages ago.  Also, in Hex levels had the huge draw of weekly drafts (for life no less!).  That kind of sustaining value feels easier to drop money on than "Here is another 50 bucks for another virtual space ship" for me.
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Reply #226 on: July 06, 2013, 09:15:19 PM

I spent just enough to secure a copy of the game along with alpha & beta. I think like 45 Bucks. Although I am legitimately interested, there is no way I'm spending more than that. The game looks like a hard to pull off pipe dream. All I am comfortable spending on pipe dreams is roughly a box cost.

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Reply #227 on: July 07, 2013, 12:12:07 AM

The fallout from this game's inevitable failure is going to be exquisite.
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Reply #228 on: July 07, 2013, 06:03:16 AM

The difference between this and HEX is that people spending hundreds of dollars on Star Citizen are crazy. Never mind thousands. HEX is a clone of a fun, highly successful physical TCG and will have a secondary market. There is no prior example of Star Citizen's lofty goals ever being crystallised into a fun game - and actually MANY examples of MMO sandbox worlds that failed hard.
There is no difference.  They're both games in production and we can point out many shitty card games.  It's just a matter of whether the concept put forth interests you or not.

We have all the Wing Commanders and two Privateers as pedigree, plus several other space games such as the X series and EVE for concept.  People spending large sums of money on either are crazy, but that's our choice.  Don't do it if you don't have faith in the product.

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Reply #229 on: July 07, 2013, 08:24:49 AM

Preaching to the choir, I made a similar point a couple of pages ago.  Also, in Hex levels had the huge draw of weekly drafts (for life no less!).  That kind of sustaining value feels easier to drop money on than "Here is another 50 bucks for another virtual space ship" for me.
I was more trying to springboard off your point than argue against it...

We have all the Wing Commanders and two Privateers as pedigree, plus several other space games such as the X series and EVE for concept.  People spending large sums of money on either are crazy, but that's our choice.  Don't do it if you don't have faith in the product.
Magic the Gathering actually exists, though. It's hugely successful, and a lot of fun. There has never been a successful attempt to make what Star Citizen is trying to be. Wing Commander, X, and Privateer are all single player. Eve is a completely different game.

We're all crazy, but some people are more crazy than others.

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Mrbloodworth
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Reply #230 on: July 07, 2013, 10:18:23 AM

There has never been a successful attempt to make what Star Citizen is trying to be.
   

    Wing Commander Saga: The Darkest Dawn (2012),
    Brute Force (2003), Microsoft Game Studios
Freelancer (2003), Microsoft Game Studios
    Conquest: Frontier Wars (2001), Ubi Soft Entertainment Software
    Starlancer (2000), Microsoft Corporation    
    Wing Commander IV: The Price of Freedom (1996), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Super Wing Commander (1994), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Wing Commander Armada (1994), Dong Seo Interactive
    Wing Commander III: Heart of the Tiger (1994), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Wing Commander / Wing Commander II (Special CD-ROM Edition) (1994), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Strike Commander (1993), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Strike Commander (CD-ROM Edition) (1993), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Strike Commander: Tactical Operations (1993), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Wing Commander: Privateer (1993), Electronic Arts, Inc., ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander II: Vengeance of the Kilrathi - Special Operations 2 (1992), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander II: Vengeance of the Kilrathi (1991), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander II: Vengeance of the Kilrathi - Special Operations 1 (1991), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander: The Secret Missions 2 - Crusade (1991), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.    
    Wing Commander (1990), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander: The Secret Missions (1990), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.    
    Ultima V: Warriors of Destiny (1988), MicroProse Ltd.    

Not even the full list. This body of work is what I base my expectations on. I could give two shits about a trading card money game. For real. That, to my knowledge, has had one successful title.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 10:30:27 AM by Mrbloodworth »

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Reply #231 on: July 07, 2013, 01:05:44 PM

None of those to my knowledge were selling ships for 250 a pop.  This also has a lot more multiplayer to it than those titles, to my knowledge.

If this was a one off purchase for 50 bucks I would probably buy it.
Mrbloodworth
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Reply #232 on: July 07, 2013, 01:49:14 PM

The prices right now are "crowd funding'. Not Retail. Perhaps that's the problem. AFAIK, the single player will be market price. Not sure what the Online part will cost, ETC..
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 01:51:15 PM by Mrbloodworth »

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Reply #233 on: July 07, 2013, 02:16:30 PM

I want to play the game. It's 85% of the dream MMG doc I've been evolving on my hard drive since 2004, I have reasonable confidence it will ship and do >50% of what he wants, and I shelled out for the "Freelancer" bundle that came with a ship plus a bunch of physical goods (soundtrack, art book, USB drive, some other stuff). It wasn't much more than the high-end "Collector's Editions" these days, and it came with things I want a hell of a lot more than a bulky, breakable [dragon/sith/charr/etc.] statue.

I'm willing to pitch in when I have a good idea of the end result and think the cost is justified. $150 for nothing more than "It's a really fast ship" "(or whatever) leaves me cold. I wish that rather than money-for-ships, they'd set up the store as a Kickstart-like money-for-features; "When people pledge X dollars total, we'll have enough to design and implement walking in stations, and we'll bill everyone for it."

I mean, it's nice they're getting a swank audio studio and mocap facility, but I'd MUCH rather know that my money was going towards more and more polished game features.

Nothing in this post represents the views of my current or previous employers.

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Reply #234 on: July 07, 2013, 02:18:11 PM

The problem is if you are rmt'ing ships now. You most likely will be rmt'ing ships after release.

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Reply #235 on: July 07, 2013, 07:28:56 PM

I imagine a lot of people paying big money right now are either hardcore wing commander fans or EvE players who know how potentially game breaking lifetime insurance on a large ship could be.  If we knew much more about the game I might buy more ships to add to my pledge account.  Depending on how fuel and PvP and system ownership works I would be interested in buying one of those fuel haulers with lifetime insurance.  They have said that insurance won't replace your ship immediately and that the larger the ship the longer it will take, but we have no actual numbers.  The fact that the lifetime insurance is on the hull, and that they say you will be able to sell that hull on the market, could also make them extremely good sources of in game currency once things are stable.  Everyone will at some point need a decent low end cargo vessel to move their crap around, I could see people buying multiple freelancers now to sell later.

They will be rmt'ing new ships though, the best way for them to make money is to make the old ships obsolete so who knows what the value of the initial lifetime insurance hulls will be.

That said I think they are promising way too much, I can't see them managing to deliver on most of it.  The systems they are talking about are just too complicated and worse yet they all hinge on the most unknown variable, what players themselves do.  They're just not going to be able to test things until it is fully released and they see how the playerbase decides to play the game.  The first year is going to be an absolute nightmare until they get the systems straight.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 07:30:36 PM by Miasma »
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Reply #236 on: July 07, 2013, 08:47:23 PM

I am impressed by the hype. If that game flops we are going to see a spike in the suicide rate among the 20-40 year old male pretend space pilot demographic. why so serious?



Quote
   Wing Commander Saga: The Darkest Dawn (2012),
    Brute Force (2003), Microsoft Game Studios
Freelancer (2003), Microsoft Game Studios
    Conquest: Frontier Wars (2001), Ubi Soft Entertainment Software
    Starlancer (2000), Microsoft Corporation    
    Wing Commander IV: The Price of Freedom (1996), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Super Wing Commander (1994), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Wing Commander Armada (1994), Dong Seo Interactive
    Wing Commander III: Heart of the Tiger (1994), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Wing Commander / Wing Commander II (Special CD-ROM Edition) (1994), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Strike Commander (1993), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Strike Commander (CD-ROM Edition) (1993), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Strike Commander: Tactical Operations (1993), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Wing Commander: Privateer (1993), Electronic Arts, Inc., ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander II: Vengeance of the Kilrathi - Special Operations 2 (1992), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander II: Vengeance of the Kilrathi (1991), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander II: Vengeance of the Kilrathi - Special Operations 1 (1991), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander: The Secret Missions 2 - Crusade (1991), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.    
    Wing Commander (1990), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander: The Secret Missions (1990), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.    
    Ultima V: Warriors of Destiny (1988), MicroProse Ltd.  
 

You missed that Wing Commander tactic spin off. Whatever it was called. Build bases, move your carrier in a turn based 4x game. When it comes to combat the game turns into a Wing Commander fighter game again. That was fun!11

Also, I know Privateer I will always be the original (and great). But Privateer II: The Darkening was seriously awesome. How many other computer games feature William Hurt, Jürgen Prochnow and Christopher Walken?! Oh, and Clive Owen was there too, looking sexy!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 08:55:43 PM by calapine »

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Reply #237 on: July 08, 2013, 02:34:30 AM

I am impressed by the hype. If that game flops we are going to see a spike in the suicide rate among the 20-40 year old male pretend space pilot demographic. why so serious?

... since most of them play Eve surely they are used to disappointment by now.

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Reply #238 on: July 08, 2013, 04:19:05 AM

There is a multiplayer part? I just wanted another Privateer. Lets see if they can deliver that.
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Reply #239 on: July 15, 2013, 02:52:57 AM

Quote
If that game flops we are going to see a spike in the suicide rate among the 20-40 year old male pretend space pilot demographic.

Please open a crisis hotline for us.
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Reply #240 on: July 15, 2013, 02:58:51 AM

Why is this even in the PC/Console Gaming forum anyway? Isn't this MMO?

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Reply #241 on: July 15, 2013, 03:03:40 AM

Why is this even in the PC/Console Gaming forum anyway? Isn't this MMO?

Is it even a game yet?

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Reply #242 on: July 15, 2013, 03:05:11 AM

The whole forum separation has gotten really weird and that's probably a sign of how games have been evolving in the past few years. World of Tanks is in the MMO section and it really is not one. MechWarrior is the same identical game and is in the PC/Console section instead. And Star Citizen, well, no on really knows exactly how the single player/multiplayer are gonna work, but seems like there will be some persistent centralized servers, but you can run it offline too or on private servers, so hard to place it.

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Reply #243 on: July 15, 2013, 03:09:41 AM

Why is this even in the PC/Console Gaming forum anyway? Isn't this MMO?


The entire project consists of two games:

- "Squadron 42" (plus a "secret ops" style extra set of missions) is the single-player game, directly inspirated by the space sims/shooter of the nineties (Wing Commander, X-wing, Freespace, etc.).

- "Star Citizen" will be the proper multiplayer game set in the same universe (but they won't use the same server model of the traditional MMOs, nor a global server like EVE).

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Reply #244 on: July 25, 2013, 03:57:06 PM


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