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Author Topic: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN  (Read 506119 times)
Cyrrex
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Reply #3920 on: February 25, 2020, 04:35:42 AM

Even if they could wave a magic wand and this was suddenly 100% finished according to all of their insane plans tomorrow....I still wouldn't play it.  That ship sailed like 5 years ago.  I imagine that is true to the majority of their potential market, probably even lots of the imbeciles who bought some of their pixelized space art.

LOL 8 years.  Maybe they should just make an Escape the Space Prison game.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Pagz
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Reply #3921 on: August 30, 2020, 07:17:21 AM

So um, how is this going?  why so serious?
Sir T
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Reply #3922 on: August 30, 2020, 12:46:58 PM

Looked at thr Reddit to see what the fanatics are saying, found this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/ijg6lc/revisiting_star_citizen_an_experience/

Quote
Revisiting Star Citizen: An Experience
DISCUSSION

My friends and I checked back in over this weekend to see where Star Citizen stands.

I have a Constellation Andromeda, my friends have a 325 and a Avenger Stalker.

We found that the partying and chat system is much improved, and seemed to work more or less the whole time.

Both of my friends who were on fresh installs of the game had big performance issues on any graphics settings, ~25-35 fps on Hurston at the space port.

Their specs: i5 9700k & 1080ti, one at 2560x1440 and the other at 3440x1440

I get a solid 45 in the same location, usually 50-70 in space.

my specs: i7 6950x SLI Titan X Pascal 64 GB ram

We encountered a slew of awful bugs that made the game impossible to play. Here's the major ones:


    Ship got stuck to surface of planet while refining SLAM for quest, like gravity was turned to 999999 or something.

    Ship took damage that was unable to be repaired at Hurston, unable to claim. Destroyed ship in hanger to get claim prompt but now I cant repair or claim, only spawn a busted hulk of a ship at any spaceport in Stanton.

    Helmet got iced over on the surface of a planet, now its permenantly iced over even after cycling it through inventory, wiping the facemask, restarting, SELLING AND REBUYING IT LOL

    Haunted doors in my Connie constantly cockblocking me from moving around

    Died with SLAM item on me, it was teleported into the structure of grim hex, could not be retrieved, had to abandon quest

    HUD on ship stuck in atmosphere mode with nose attitude tape etc even in quantum jump mode or inside mobiglass

    buggy equipment and ship outfitting app in mobiglass, mostly just rage magnet

    placing unrefined SLAM on its intended location doesnt progress the mission, must abandon and restart

    missiles were randomly functional or non functional, couldnt figure out why

    lighting and particle effects are all kinda messed up, lots of flashing textures and blinking dust/gas clouds

    NPC are are so bad its unclear why they are in the game in this state at all, probably just destroying server and client performance being all bugged etc

All in all, it was barely fun, kinda cool, and seriously disappointing. Ive been a backer since KS so we log back in every now and again to see where the state of the game is.

Seems legit for 8 years development with meeeelions.

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
Kail
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Reply #3923 on: August 30, 2020, 03:30:29 PM

Seems legit for 8 years development with meeeelions.

And even that is understating it a bit.

Star Citizen has currently raised over $310,000,000.  So, the highest game development budget.  Of any game.

Ever.

Development budget for Grand Theft Auto 5 was something like $250 million, Modern Warfare 2 was just under $300 million, Star Wars: The Old Republic was somewhere in the $200 million range.

The original Kickstarter for Star Citizen was in April, 2013.  That's before the XBox One and Playstation 4 launched; it was around the release of games like Far Cry 3 and Bioshock: Infinite.  Warhammer: Online was stll a thing.  Star Citizen is still in Alpha and has no release date.
Velorath
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Reply #3924 on: August 30, 2020, 08:08:34 PM

So um, how is this going?  why so serious?

Back when they still had a road map for Squadron 42, it listed Beta as Q2 of this year I think. At some point the weekly road maps were barely showing progress so they more or less said "hey this isn't actually representative of what's being worked on, we'll stop doing S42 road maps for now and come up with an updated way to do them". Then like they do, they went radio silent for months. At one point they said they were going to release a little update video the next day, then canceled that, said they needed to rework the video a bit, and went radio silent again. They eventually posted months after that that they still didn't have the new road map ready but basically had a road map for the steps needed to get their new road map for S42 ready. At some point they also mentioned that Covid had set their progress on S42 back by maybe 3 months. Now if you're doing the math correctly that would mean they should have it ready for a (presumably internal) beta right around now and yet they're still talking about a weeks or months long process of putting together a new road map for it.

In other words, things are going as they always have.
Khaldun
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Reply #3925 on: August 30, 2020, 10:20:28 PM

No joke--we've talked on this before--I think this whole thing was a complicated dress rehearsal for the present political/social moment. "Would people give lots and lots of money for an impossible dream idea to people where there is plenty of reason to think they can't achieve it and then be so deep into the dream that they will not back off or feel bitter even if there's every reason in the world for them to think they've been cheated?"

No? Really? Great, it's safe to go forward with our political plans. Damn! I didn't think that would work as much as it did!
Cyrrex
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Reply #3926 on: August 31, 2020, 12:38:46 AM

You all seem to be deliberately glossing over the part where they have chat working essentially most of the time.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Abagadro
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Reply #3927 on: August 31, 2020, 01:13:02 AM

Quote
Star Citizen has currently raised over $310,000,000.

They SAY they have raised that much. I have a hard time believing that it is true.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.Ē

-H.L. Mencken
Kageru
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Reply #3928 on: August 31, 2020, 05:12:54 AM


At this point I would almost be sad if this launched, it's amazing as a piece of conceptual art about human nature and the limits thereof.

... then again, it's not my money that paid for it.

Is a man not entitled to the hurf of his durf?
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Ashamanchill
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Reply #3929 on: September 01, 2020, 08:05:36 PM

When do they turn the 'taking the piss' throttle up to 11 and release a Springtime for Hitler expansion pack, with a Bialystock class ship on sale for 2000 bucks?

A poster signed by Richard Garriot, Brad McQuaid, Marc Jacobs and SmerricK Dart.  Of course it would arrive a couple years late, missing letters and a picture but it would be epic none the less. -Tmon
Sir T
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Reply #3930 on: September 02, 2020, 01:30:41 PM

Maybe they should release it as Battlecruiser 311,000,000.  why so serious?

Really, they should shove Roberts into a badded cell somewhere out of site, Hire some asshole managers that have everyone hating their asses but will get product in the can on time and on budget. Shove most of the crazy features as "in the next expansion" and kick out the bits of it they know they can make work as a final release

I'd also like my Pony farting Rainbows and crapping Ice Cream, thank you.

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
Khaldun
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Reply #3931 on: September 03, 2020, 07:30:35 AM

Wouldn't the most delicious thing in the world be an announcement that they're hiring D S to help finish the development?
Rendakor
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Reply #3932 on: September 03, 2020, 09:59:33 AM

Maybe they should release it as Battlecruiser 311,000,000.  why so serious?

Really, they should shove Roberts into a badded cell somewhere out of site, Hire some asshole managers that have everyone hating their asses but will get product in the can on time and on budget. Shove most of the crazy features as "in the next expansion" and kick out the bits of it they know they can make work as a final release

I'd also like my Pony farting Rainbows and crapping Ice Cream, thank you.
If they release a game, they can't keep grifting forever.

Wouldn't the most delicious thing in the world be an announcement that they're hiring D S to help finish the development?

I thought he tried suing them over something?

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Chimpy
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Reply #3933 on: September 03, 2020, 10:45:03 PM


At this point I would almost be sad if this launched, it's amazing as a piece of conceptual art about human nature and the limits thereof.

... then again, it's not my money that paid for it.

Just think if crowdfunding existed when Daikatana was being "created".  DRILLING AND WOMANLINESS


'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Samprimary
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Reply #3934 on: September 06, 2020, 02:23:17 PM

So um, how is this going?  why so serious?

lmao this thread started in 2012 and we just have to ask
Sky
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Reply #3935 on: September 07, 2020, 04:55:53 PM

So um, how is this going?  why so serious?

lmao this thread started in 2012 and we just have to ask
Emblematic of our times, the game we deserve.

Tale
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Reply #3936 on: September 09, 2020, 03:16:10 AM

So um, how is this going?  why so serious?

lmao this thread started in 2012 and we just have to ask

I notice Kotaku recently recycled an article from 2016 about "the troubled development of Star Citizen", dated it 7 September 2020, and didn't need to rewrite it.
HaemishM
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Reply #3937 on: September 09, 2020, 09:20:55 PM

Star Citizen is going to be doing some kind of Fly Free weekend, letting people who haven't bought the game play for free.

Why though?

Trippy
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Reply #3938 on: September 09, 2020, 09:24:59 PM

They need more suckers?
Draegan
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Reply #3939 on: September 10, 2020, 07:01:37 AM

Is there a functional game to play?
Rendakor
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Reply #3940 on: September 10, 2020, 07:49:21 AM

Is there a functional game to play?
The core gameplay loop of "Insert Credit Card Number, Receive JPEG of Spaceship" has been working great for years.

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Reply #3941 on: September 10, 2020, 10:35:39 AM

Space X has developed and flown real manned aircraft in space in the time this game has been in development.

Velorath
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Reply #3942 on: September 12, 2020, 03:09:30 PM

Chris Roberts responded twice today in a thread where someone was wondering why a game system shown four years ago isn't finished and fully implemented in the game yet. I think this is also one of the few, if possibly the only time he's been heard from in almost a year.

Quote
The Room System has been in the game for quite a while and fully works including equalization of gases / atmosphere between room volumes (including dissipation into the global room aka open space / vacuum)

When you suffocate for lack of oxygen that is because you are in a "room" with not enough oxygen.

The Room System is basically how the game describes volumes of gas, their pressure, density and temperature so a planet has a room (it's atmosphere) a ship has rooms (various compartments between bulkheads), even "The Coil" in Squadron 42 has it's volume described by a "room".

We use it for the Player Status System (breathing oxygen), for atmospheric flight (the room system contains all the information in terms of density and composition of the atmosphere in terms of gasses that flight model uses to calculate drag and lift), weather (some of the current weather ground FX are partly influenced by the room's temperature, density and even composition of gasses in the atmosphere), contrails (in atmosphere and in space gas clouds) and atmospheric entry effects on ships.

So the Room System is very important for a lot of systems and has been been in Star Citizen for years.

What @MGibson-cig was saying and may have been lost in translation as you don't know our internal terms is that rooms can have two states; mutable and immutable. Mutable means that the room has a finite amount of density / pressure / gasses which can pass to another room if it is connected to it and there is a difference in pressure. So if you open an door to space from your Aurora if the internal room is set to mutable the atmosphere inside will escape outside. Immutable means the room has what is considered an infinite amount of gas and it's pressure won't change. Planet Atmospheres are immutable rooms, as is the vacuum of space. When we first set up rooms on the vehicles we didn't have the life support component (and it's related vents) implemented yet so we had no way to supply more oxygen to a room that had lost it, so the designers set the ship rooms to immutable (infinite supply of oxygen basically) as a temporary measure because otherwise if you opened your door in space you would lose your internal breathable atmosphere and suffocate if you didn't have a space suit on. All ships have rooms, and in fact why people occasionally suffocate on a ship in some places is because the room volume hasn't been set up correctly and there is some part of the ship without a room, and without a room there is no atmosphere and the game treats everything outside a room as vacuum.

We have the initial implementation of life support components and their connected vents working internally but rolling it out for the ships will take a while as we need to literally "plumb" the ships with a set of extra components, not just the life support component but all it's vents. We have a few other systemic ship features like more interactive cockpits (DCS style) we've been working on, as well as the dynamic fire system (which also uses and affects the room / atmosphere) and an update to the "pipe" system that shares resources like power, heat, fuel, atmosphere between components that will be more flexible and scalable so it's really a matter of scheduling when we do passes on our huge number of ships to set them up for the new systems that are waiting and the ones to be ready soon; As everyone always has more work than time it is going to be more efficient to update multiple things once we crack open a ship to update it, hence some of the functionality we have waiting in the wings hasn't been rolled out just yet.

There is a lot of very cool systemic gameplay that we've been working to finish off in the background for ships that once all together will create a spaceship simulation like no other. Let me give you an example that factors in our new physical damage (that we are working on as I type; this is one of things that I'm pretty involved in), fire, room, pipe and player status systems.

A ballistic round passes through the ship's shield, which scrubs off some of its kinetic energy but not enough as the round's velocity was high as was its mass as it was an armor piercing round. It manages to penetrate the armor and strikes an internal component, say a power relay node (something else we are working on as part of the pipe system refactor). The power node takes damage giving it a chance to "misfire" while in use. A few minutes later the node does misfire, blowing its fuse and resulting in it catching fire. The crew of the ship doesn't realize a fire has broken out in one of the side corridors, as they are busily concentrating on fighting the ships attacking them. The fire starts to spread along flammable surfaces, and as the fire starts to engulf other components they also catch fire. The engineer on the bridge of the ship sees his console flash red giving him a warning that several components have failed and looking at his ships schematic he sees a fire has broken out below decks. The engineer decides to seal the bulkhead doors on the corridor to contain the fire but the doors have no power as the power node is out! He comms one of his crew mates to leave his turret and grab an extinguisher and put out the blaze which is slowly creeping towards the power plant room. Fire reaching a ship's power plant or it's ammo stores are two sure fire ways for your ship to go boom. With the physical damage system ships will no longer just explode when their hit points reach zero, they'll explode because something inside them went critical and exploded (due to damage or heat), which then damages everything else. Outside of that damage will affect the ability of the ship to function or it's structural integrity so they also could become a lifeless hulk as much as they could go up in a flash of light. When the crew member gets to the corridor where the fire has broken out is has already consumed a huge amount of oxygen in that "room" (the corridor) and has released noxious gasses, so the crew member can't breathe and quickly retreats to put on a fire resistant suit and helmet. The engineer in desperation manages to reroute power away from the destroyed node through a secondary node restoring power to enough of the bulkhead doors to allow him to contain the fire. Noticing that there is an external airlock in the sealed off area he opens the airlock, venting the oxygen in the sealed off corridors and rooms to the vacuum of space, depriving the fire of the ability to burn, putting most of it out. By this time the crew member is suitably dressed and can extinguish the fire that made it past the bulkhead door before it can grow again. The engineer then reseals the airlock and allows the life support system to replenish the air in the vented part of the ship. Once done the engineer opens up the bulkhead door allowing the crewmember in with a replacement fuse for the power node, restoring power to that section of the ship, then returns to his turret. It's been a close call but the ship is still alive and in the fight!

What I describe will be possible once we have finished and deployed the systems we're working on. I know it can be frustrating to wait for all of this functionality to be online but I promise you everyone is working as hard and as smartly as possible to get there; we are just going for a higher level of systemic gameplay (versus scripted) than most if not all games, and to architect all of this so it works in multiplayer at scale is no small feat.

I am very invested in making Star Citizen's gameplay as systemic as possible as I think this will open up so many possibilities of emergent and immersive gameplay. The downside of this approach is that it takes longer to see results as opposed to scripting actions as you have to build the fundamental systems first and have them interact with each other before the full extent of the gameplay becomes apparent. But for the long term, and for people's ability to lose themselves in the universe of Star Citizen for many years to come it is the approach that will have the best results.

The OP Responded:

Quote
Chris, it's just the same old same old, I didn't even want to reply, but here we go:
-we are working on it
-we know how frustrating it feels
-we have this already in game but tech X is missing
-Chris continuing describing in detail how the system is suppose to work one fine day

I don't even want that much detail in the damage model, I am perfectly fine with a damage model/room system that looks fine at first glance.

In 8 years CIG has not even achieved that, lots of basic mechanics are still missing and what we have is amateurish at best.

What you, Chris, describe in your comment would take at the very least take another 10-20 years.

That's is the problem, ignoring the basics, using amateurish mechanic placeholders, talking about how Grand the game will be, but you will never be able to deliver so much detail (which we don't need, make it believable at first glance, done) unless you get 4 times as many people.

I will surely check again in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... years and I am sure we will hear the same excuses.


And finally, Chris' response to that:

Quote
I wouldn't normally do this but I know you've invested a lot of time into Star Citizen, including on the testing and community content creation so I'm going to take your reply to as a sign of frustration and try to add a little more context to help you see a bigger picture.

What were you hoping to get from your Original Post? I was assuming it was -
I was wondering where we are almost 4 years later, tested a few things and made a video.

I shared information on where we are, and why you don't see something you thought you should. Part of my motivation for answering is that I commonly see people assume things that aren't true like the room system not being in the game because one aspect of the system doesn't have the behavior that they think it should. I wanted to give you extra context and information so you (and others in this thread) had a better understanding of what is in, what isn't and why it isn't and what is left to do.

If you want to encourage me or other developers to answer questions then it helps to not turn around and question people's professionalism or make sweeping statements. If someone did that to you in your job I am sure it would be irritating. I have a thicker skin than most of the developers at CIG, and realize that not everyone is speaking in their first language or realizes how they phrased things may not have been the best, but in general it is best to approach things with constructive criticism, leaving the ad hominems out. You wouldn't be putting this much time into something if you didn't care, so why put energy into posting something that a developer will dismiss because it feels like an attack? I can tell you that being considerate of someone and treating them with respect will get you much further than than being dismissive. The development team reads these forums and other places like reddit, and the community's feedback really helps, but the feedback that gets actioned on, that gets passed around internally and is discussed is the constructive type, not the overly negative type. Just saying something sucks isn't helpful. Explaining why it sucks for that user, and their ideas to potentially rectify it is helpful.

My biggest disappointment with modern internet discourse is that there's a significant amount of cynicism, especially in forum or reddit debates, and a portion of people assume the worst. If a feature is missing, late or buggy it's because the company or the developer lied and or / is incompetent as opposed to the fact that it just took longer and had more problems than the team thought it would when they originally set out to build it. Developers by their very nature are optimistic. You have to be to build things that haven't ever been built before. Otherwise the sheer weight of what is needed to be done can crush you. But being optimistic or not foreseeing issues isn't the same as lying or deliberately misleading people. Everyone at CIG is incredibly passionate about making Star Citizen the most immersive massively multiplayer first person universe sandbox, and everyone works very hard to deliver that. If we could deliver harder, faster, better we would. We get just as frustrated with the time things take. We practice bottom up task estimation where the team implementing the feature breaks it down and gives their estimates of how long it will take them. Management doesn't dictate timelines, we just set priorities for the teams as there are always a lot more things to do at any one time than we have people to do them. We are constantly reviewing and trying to improve our AGILE development process and how we estimate sprints. As the code, feature and content base grows there is more maintenance and support needed for the existing features and content, which can eat into the time a team has for new feature development, meaning you always have the push and pull of current quality of life in a release versus delivering new features and content. The same push and pull exists in the community as there is a strong desire for polished bug free gameplay now but also new features and content, often from the very same people.

Things like Salvage haven't been pushed back on a whim, but because in terms of priority we felt that it would premature to work on Salvage before the iCache and physical damage system is implemented in the game as this fundamentally changes how we manage state, handle damage and debris. So when presented with a priority call to make on resource allocation we deprioritized Salvage in order to build the infrastructure to really make it sing, as opposed to working on a system we will have to refactor when the iCache and new damage system came on line.

We have also decided we wanted to invest more time into the quality of life, performance and stability in Star Citizen as it is actively played every day by tens of thousands of people; on normal days we have an average of over 30,000 different people playing and at the peak during events this year we've hit 100,000 unique accounts playing in one day which is pretty impressive for a game in an early Alpha state. We are on track to have over one million unique players this year. Star Citizen already has the main gameloops of a space sim; cargo hauling, commodity trading, mercenary, pirate, bounty hunting and mining. Just spending time refining and finishing out these would make Star Citizen with all it's detail and fidelity more engrossing than any "finished" space sim you can play today.

We've shown a preview of the new roadmap format ( https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/17727-Star-Citizen-Squadron-42-Roadmap-Update ) that we are working on. Part of the motivation for changing how we share the tasks we are working on and their progress is so the community can get better visibility into the hard choices that we face everyday on the project and see what exactly every team is working on as opposed to just the few tasks we feel comfortable sharing because we think have a high probability to make that quarter. When we make a priority call and move up or add a task there is always something that needs to be pushed back. The new format which tracks our 58 feature and content teams that work on Star Citizen and Squadron 42, will be able to show what each team is working on and if a new initiative like improving the cargo hauling experience gets added you'll see the tasks that get pushed back on the teams that will work on this new initiative. As a point of data these teams can be anywhere from 4 people to over 20 people and of the 58 teams only 11 are exclusively dedicated to Squadron 42 and 12 for Star Citizen and the rest are shared (things like graphics, engine, actor, vehicle, AI, VFX, sound and so on), although a lot of the priorities for things like actor, vehicle and AI are driven by what Squadron needs.

Switching the roadmap format was something that I made a priority for us at the start of the year when it was clear that the current roadmap format wasn't helping, especially as the teams really didn't want to commit until absolutely definitely their feature would make it, which you'll normally only know about six weeks before release, due to the vitriol they would see when a task was pushed back, despite our best efforts to get everyone that looks at the current Road Map to read and acknowledge the caveats ( https://robertsspaceindustries.com/roadmap/board/1-Star-Citizen/info ) which explicitly say some of the tasks are likely to slip. Getting tired of this I felt it would be best for the community to see the same view I and the rest of the senior development management see on Star Citizen and Squadron 42. This won't stop people from disagreeing with our priority calls or how long something takes, but at least it will share the overall picture and people can see exactly what everyone is working on at any moment and how long it is projected to take. They will be able to see it change when it does for us and hopefully appreciate how many people are working really hard to make Star Citizen a game like no other. One of the reasons the new Road Map is taking time because we're building a system that visualizes all this as a top level directly from our JIRA database. We plan to use a more verbose version of the public roadmap for our internal sprint scheduling, so the data you see will be a sanitized version of what we see (we won't share individual developer names and assignments publically for obvious reasons but internally we will see this).

I sense from your reply to me that it's the time taken and priorities that you're frustrated with, as you feel like we're focusing on the wrong things. I can see that point of view, but you're looking at it from the outside without the full knowledge of exactly what it will take, and the order it needs to be done in to deliver the gameplay that will set Star Citizen above everything else. This is the game I've dreamed of my whole life. Now I am in a position to realize it, I am not willing to compromise it's potential because it is taking longer than I originally envisioned. What I will commit to, and what is an internal priority is to improve the current gameplay and quality of life as we go, as Star Citizen is already fun in many ways, even if more buggy and not as stable as I would like, and just finishing off and polishing the basics will make it play as well or better than most other games.

I can promise you the gameplay I described is not a pipe dream, nor will it take 10 to 20 years to deliver. I described systems we either have working, or are working on; we've even shown early versions of some of this like fire on Inside Star Citizen. I can't promise you exactly what quarter it will come together but once the new Road Map web work is done you'll be able to see the teams progress to achieving what I describe in real time.

Thank you for your support and passion over the years. I hope this extra insight was helpful.


In short: Psycho.
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Reply #3943 on: September 12, 2020, 03:58:37 PM

fucking lol
HaemishM
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Reply #3944 on: September 12, 2020, 04:05:05 PM

I'm not even going to read Chris's second response, because the first one is GODDAMNED INSANE. He is literally trying to create a universe for systems that don't even remotely need that much depth. He has clearly mistaken granularity for fun and thinks that the more bullshit you can simulate, the more fun it will be. But it won't. It's like forcing someone in an MMOG to walk every single place, with no fast travel, to craft every piece of food and then take the time to eat it. It makes for 30 minutes of busywork to have 5 minutes of fun.

This game, if it ever even manages to work, will be just a slog of bullshit. Meanwhile, Elite Dangerous has been out for years and is at least as much fun and depth as that sounds like only, you know, is released and has worked. And didn't cost $300 million and counting.

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Reply #3945 on: September 12, 2020, 04:10:42 PM

There's a game on steam, I think green hell.

I returned it 10 minutes in despite being intensely interested because starting a fire in the game was more effort than real life.

Simulation is mostly bad.
Trippy
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Reply #3946 on: September 12, 2020, 04:20:48 PM

As an aside, Barotrauma can simulate that above situation almost exactly, except on a 2D sub instead of a 3D spaceship. It's a fun "party" game for a group of (preferably drunk) friends.
Goumindong
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Reply #3947 on: September 12, 2020, 05:38:31 PM

Barotrauma probably doesnít simulate it like star citizen is trying to. Ships probably donít have plumbing in the sense that there is some representation of it in space. Ships probably have plumbing in like a line item on a spreadsheet. And if the rng pulls the line of the plumbing the plumbing springs a leak.

Roberts is like... trying to design spaceships by making sure all the fucking pipes fit in the walls laid as real objects so that a projectile could impact a specific point on the pipe to damage that specific section...itís fucking nuts. Itís less a simulation at that point than a recreation.
Trippy
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Reply #3948 on: September 12, 2020, 06:24:25 PM

It's true the internal electrical wiring and the liquid and air plumbing on a Barotrauma don't have physical representations in game that you can damage/sever directly* but the power node in Roberts' example being damaged by a bullet is effectively like damaging an electrical junction box in Barotrama causing a cascade of failures which is modeled in game.

But yeah if he's trying to build an actual fluid dynamics simulation inside each ship best of luck to him awesome, for real

* electrical wiring can be changed but only at predetermined objects, you can't "cut" a wire at any random location
Khaldun
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Reply #3949 on: September 12, 2020, 10:15:39 PM

You know what, reading that made me think differently about the whole thing. I think this is not just a grift any more. That was like the fucking Apocalypse Now of gaming. Roberts sounds like goddamn Kurtz up the river in that. "Are you an assassin?"

I don't think it's even as coherent as "this is my idea of fun". It's like he's gone into the heart of funness and doesn't know where the fuck he is any more. Like, he's telling people to make imaginary spaceships one day and the next day he's worrying about the realism of how players suffocate to death.

I wrote a short piece once about the insanity of a certain kind of artificial societies modelling where the goal was (in all seriousness) to make a simulation that was 1:1 with the actual universe in complexity where the only advantage would be (since it's just as hard to understand as the actual world) that you could shut it off and turn it on again from the start. That's pretty much Martin's "Sandkings" and Sturgeon's "Microcosmic God" as a serious proposition.

Roberts has gone there. This suddenly isn't funny any more--that's a dude who has gone from grifter territory into cultist insanity. Things don't go well usually past that point.
Sir T
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Reply #3950 on: September 13, 2020, 10:48:09 AM

I'm reminded that the 2D roleplaying server game Space Station 13 started out as a program to simulate how air moves from one space to another... but it moved way beyond that as people with waaaay too much time on their hands got a hold of the program and added systems that were NOT simulation onto it.

Adding something to measure how each molecule of air behaves in the event of a hull breach is fucking stupid, for one thing you cant even see it, and secondly all it means for the player is "I have a force of X pulling me to the breach, so I have to counteract with movement Y. Or I ignore it completely cause I'm strapped to the chair and have 'magnetic boots.'"

But ya, development basically now focused on unimportant stuff for god knows why.

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
Ashamanchill
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Reply #3951 on: September 13, 2020, 01:24:45 PM

As an aside, Barotrauma can simulate that above situation almost exactly, except on a 2D sub instead of a 3D spaceship. It's a fun "party" game for a group of (preferably drunk) friends.


I straight up lost my friends to this game.

A poster signed by Richard Garriot, Brad McQuaid, Marc Jacobs and SmerricK Dart.  Of course it would arrive a couple years late, missing letters and a picture but it would be epic none the less. -Tmon
Draegan
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Reply #3952 on: September 15, 2020, 07:06:53 AM

Cool. My guild is recruiting and Engineer LVL I to be the patching bitch when there is a plasma coolant leak. I also need four more Engineers LVL II to run my warp core so I can come home from work and zoom zoom pew pew.

I'm assuming this game is aiming for ships to have an actual crew and do the actual mundane shit?
Setanta
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Reply #3953 on: September 16, 2020, 02:25:49 AM

I just realised I'd invested a couple of hundred dollars in this. Time to play the "Australia and the ACCC" card on it I think. Given it's USD, that would be nice to have back in the wallet

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
justdave
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Reply #3954 on: September 17, 2020, 02:34:52 AM

Cool. My guild is recruiting and Engineer LVL I to be the patching bitch when there is a plasma coolant leak. I also need four more Engineers LVL II to run my warp core so I can come home from work and zoom zoom pew pew.

I'm assuming this game is aiming for ships to have an actual crew and do the actual mundane shit?

I have Flight Attendant LVL II and Spacecraft Dietician LVL I, sign me up. I may seem useless now, but when they get the final electrolyte depletion mechanic in, patching bitches are going to need that extra sodium. It's sweaty work. And thirsty.

"They started to resist with a crust that was welded with human brain and willpower."
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