 Author
|
Topic: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN (Read 1017888 times)
|
Paelos
Contributor
Posts: 27075
Error 404: Title not found.
|
Why do you care so much in a general sense? I understand the vitriol with SC because of it's outrageous ship costs and shit like that, but in a general sense? Because I do. That's really the only response you deserve to that silly question. |
CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
|
|
|
Mandella
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1236
|
.you're up against a whole team of behavioral psychologists and sociology majors.
Name some please. Not the games, but people actually hired with those degrees to make the game as addictive as possible. You hear this accusation sometimes, but I have never read an actual account with names named. |
|
|
|
|
Draegan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10043
|
You really do hate people picking on others, don't you?
Fuckwit.
 |
|
|
|
|
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60350
|
.you're up against a whole team of behavioral psychologists and sociology majors.
Name some please. Not the games, but people actually hired with those degrees to make the game as addictive as possible. You hear this accusation sometimes, but I have never read an actual account with names named. Doesn't happen much outside of social "games," other than on a consultancy basis, but I can assure you these people exist. And they are not what I would define as lawful good. I am not outting any of them. That said, a team of them? Nope. Not a thing. |
|
|
|
|
calapine
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7352
Solely responsible for the thread on "The Condom Wall."
|
You really do hate people picking on others, don't you?
Fuckwit.
I swear some of you people are the internet incarnation of Bebgie from Trainspotting. No matter what thread, after a few pages shit flinging starts.  |
Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
|
|
|
Paelos
Contributor
Posts: 27075
Error 404: Title not found.
|
Well in some cases you have to consider what F13 spawned out of, and it makes some sense why that happens.
|
CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
|
|
|
|
Venkman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11536
|
Come on that was a lifetime ago. I don't get how SC deserves some type of unique conversation about fools and money parted. This is no different from loving the idea of a pre-launch thing so much your abject faith in it knows no critiques. I'd say at least half of us have been an apostle for some game design doc in our lives. My own was DAoC, pre-F13. Others have been more recent. It's Bloodworth's turn at SC. I don't make any rules. But my feeling is that the best conversations come from acknowledging that all rules are self-created. Therefore: It's ok to be really enthusiastic about something. It's ok to believe in it enough to put money down. It's also ok to spend hours at a one-arm bandit or at some table because you figured out the house, or to spend money on Candy Crush Saga because you just.gotta.make.level.198 or whatever. And it's ok to question the rationale of all of it. As long as you acknowledge that spending money on your own useless hobby means you should temper your attitude about someone else's spend on their own useless hobby. But it's not ok to question the reality of this. All of this and worse happens. Some of this happens even to some people here. And whether they admit it or not is timing: on whether a thread is relevant and their level of embarrasment about it. Casinos are designed to make you want to spend money in certain ways, with entire floor plans based on analytics and foot traffic. Retailers are too, measured similarly, motivated slightly differently. F2P games are too. All of this is because there are formulae to it. Some intuit it, others have psychologists working with mathematicians on it. You can not like that stuff all day long. You can even be religiously opposed to its very existence. But that shit is real not because of some hairy fairy concept and proving what company has what PHD on staff. It's simpler than that: It's real because it's fucking real. Whether SC is a coordinated scam, a pending victim of its own mismanaged feature creap, or actually becomes the inflection point that generates a future like Ready Player One*, we will only know after it either dies or launches. We don't know now. We can't know now. I prefer to have both the dreamers posting details and the skeptics laughing about them. Just one of those forms an echo chamber. There's entire internets of places I could go for that shit.  * Terrible storytelling. Couldn't even finish it. Cline should write wikipedia pages.
|
|
|
|
|
Pennilenko
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3472
|
I don't get how SC deserves some type of unique conversation about fools and money parted. This is no different from loving the idea of a pre-launch thing so much your abject faith in it knows no critiques. I'd say at least half of us have been an apostle for some game design doc in our lives. My own was DAoC, pre-F13. Others have been more recent. It's Bloodworth's turn at SC.
I am ashamed to say that mine was Vanguard. |
"See? All of you are unique. And special. Like fucking snowflakes." -- Signe
|
|
|
Lucas
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3298
Further proof that Italians have suspect taste in games.
|
The PAX Australia presentation (FPS mechanics) is going to start in about 50 minutes (at 6am EDT, 11am CET); will be broadcasted live on Twitch (then it will be available in the video archive section of the twitch channel, and eventually on YT): http://www.twitch.tv/starcitizen |
" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
|
|
|
brellium
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1296
|
I don't get how SC deserves some type of unique conversation about fools and money parted. This is no different from loving the idea of a pre-launch thing so much your abject faith in it knows no critiques. I'd say at least half of us have been an apostle for some game design doc in our lives. My own was DAoC, pre-F13. Others have been more recent. It's Bloodworth's turn at SC.
I am ashamed to say that mine was Vanguard. My Little Pony, Online. |
"One must see in every human being only that which is worthy of praise. When this is done, one can be a friend to the whole human race. If, however, we look at people from the standpoint of their faults, then being a friend to them is a formidable task."
—‘Abdu’l-Bahá
|
|
|
Lucas
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3298
Further proof that Italians have suspect taste in games.
|
Twitch stream struggling, but for now here's the FPS Dev Team presentation, Illfonic (with some footage of the FPS module here and there): http://youtu.be/6mdnm6r1p8g |
" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
|
|
|
jakonovski
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4388
|
Ha, it seems the current hype is that the fps module will be a new space ARMA.
This project is going to set entire continents on fire when it fails. And literal foreclosures when it comes to light that more than a few people have spent everything they have on it.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 05:22:28 AM by jakonovski »
|
|
|
|
|
Falconeer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11125
a polyamorous pansexual genderqueer born and living in the wrong country
|
Am I wrong when I say that even 100M wouldn't be enough for all the stuff they want to make and with that level of detail? Despite the success, money could run out any moment here.
|
|
|
|
Paelos
Contributor
Posts: 27075
Error 404: Title not found.
|
Come on that was a lifetime ago.
Only 10 years. If anything we're older and MORE crotchety! |
CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
|
|
|
rk47
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6236
The Patron Saint of Radicalthons
|
I mildly condemn the acts of this group of developers.
|
Colonel Sanders is back in my wallet
|
|
|
|
|
Falconeer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11125
a polyamorous pansexual genderqueer born and living in the wrong country
|
Very generic shooter. Impossible to tell from the video if it's any good or not. One thing is for sure, the audience is the obnoxious church-goers kind that gasps and cheers every time the reverend says Lord Jesus Christ! or deploys a portable shield, and the fake team play is quite pathetic. But hey, it's a multi-level marketing sale conference so it's all par for the course.
Back on the shooter, even if it's nothing special, as long as it's a bonus to the an amazing space game I'll take it. But the video definitely didn't show anything to write home about.
|
|
|
|
Samwise
Moderator
Posts: 19298
sentient yeast infection
|
Very generic shooter. Impossible to tell from the video if it's any good or not. One thing is for sure, the audience is the obnoxious church-goers kind that gasps and cheers every time the reverend says Lord Jesus Christ! or deploys a portable shield, and the fake team play is quite pathetic. But hey, it's a multi-level marketing sale conference so it's all par for the course.
Back on the shooter, even if it's nothing special, as long as it's a bonus to the an amazing space game I'll take it. But the video definitely didn't show anything to write home about.
What you're missing is the part where you build immersion by waiting in a crate for an hour before the shooty part. |
|
|
|
|
rk47
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6236
The Patron Saint of Radicalthons
|
Next add on should have space apartments and real estates.
Limited edition furniture and stuff.
|
Colonel Sanders is back in my wallet
|
|
|
Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23646
|
Don't give them any more ideas.
|
|
|
|
|
rk47
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6236
The Patron Saint of Radicalthons
|
Don't give them any more ideas.
Corporate raids on warehouses. Stealing their filez, data and weapons... Nothing like blowing up the enemy's ammo dump, amirite? I can't wait to swoop in at night when everyone's fast asleep and drop in uninvited, hacking through their databanks and running to the outside perimeter for evac under troop fire. And just when they thought they cornered me, I hop on my Super Cobra Gunship and blow the fuck out of them and afterburner out of the atmosphere. |
Colonel Sanders is back in my wallet
|
|
|
Sir T
Terracotta Army
Posts: 14223
|
... with tits! And a badge!
|
Hic sunt dracones.
|
|
|
lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8021
|
Lol at the cult attire.
|
|
|
|
|
jakonovski
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4388
|
I think they're mainly developing for these cult meetings, you can keep the scheme running far longer like that!
|
|
|
|
|
Mrbloodworth
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15148
|
- aggressively monetizes everything it can, and at incredibly steep price points
Actually you can get the full game for USD 40.--, which is almost Indie-title priced. Of course the higher tiers are crazy, and I would never buy into them. But as long as I am not forced to it's hard to get upset about. Wether the push towards crowd-funding in gaming is a good thing, and where the border between reasonable and milking the players lies, might be worth a debate. But it's essentially a philosophic discussion and doesn't really affect me as player who just wants some shoot some Kilrathi Vanduuls. It's rare that I disagree with you Calapine, but on this I really do. It does affect the game experience of someone who avoids all of the extra monetisation because the entire structure of this game is being built around it. It will totally affect balance and economy. No, hes right. Squadron 42, is mostly single player experience ( You can allow friends to join if you want ). Star citizen can be played one of two ways, hosting your own server, or on the PU hosted by CIG. Your own server can be fully modded out if you want to be starwars. Too many people are responding as if this is a MMO, its really, REALLY not. Considering things like the PVE>PVP slider, your experience can be singular if that's what you want, and right now, the bare minimum for the game is around 40$, out of the 60$ it will be "at retail". I understand defending this game if you've sunk money into it and are trying to justify your poor decisions, but otherwise I can think of far more deserving damsels to white-knight.
People would have to think it was a poor decision to back this game to agree with you. There was a large gap for a long time for this sort of niche game, and make no mistake, this is a niche game. Its not the next blockbuster. It does not seem to strive to be, hence parts of the design. treating it as its the next homogenized blockbuster everyone with a console will buy is a mistake. Its very clearly, and always has been a niche game for a specific audience. That audience is backing it. That audiance wants this game made. That audience is what its being tailored to, patch after patch. Progress on hard drive. Feedback directly applied to it as calapine said. There was name recognition at first, but we are far from that anymore, progress right in front of peoples faces is what drives it now. Ignoring this is a mistake if you are trying to objectively understand whats going on here with this titles crowed funding success. I personally, have never understood the "How dare they make a game I will never play, I hope they fail", or worse, the camp of "How dare they make a game I may enjoy, I hope they fail". That's just an unfathomable position to me, especially in a group of gamers. Its cynical, and childish, and extreamly petty. Normally with zero roots in reality of how games are made, but based on how easy they think it is in their minds. No Developer sets out to make a bad game, however bad games are made, most, never see the light of day. I also understand, that while Chris Roberts may not have made a title in years, he has a team of people that have, and have some great talent backing him. After all, designers don't really need to know C++ do they? So, focusing on Chris as if hes the only member, is, well, silly. Developments are teams. There is some really good talent on this team. The gambling, I have no idea where this comparison comes from. None. In fact I see it in other, more mainstream titles in the form of lock boxes or RNG to "collectable cards" then I see it ANYWHERE in the pledge store. I See a case of barking up the wrong tree there. The only explanation I see if this PROJECTED motivation some of you have that people are "investing". I Can't say I know anyone, or have seen anyone "investing" in the game, simply backing a game that has the potential to be the game they wished wing commander and freelancer were, or should have been. Even at the lowest level of a pledge, you get the full game. Full stop. There is no more, or less return. Other than the game is ABLE to be made. Where there was clearly, no other process to do so. Many people have never seen a game made, never seen games at the early stages parts of this are in. Its evidenced in even the responses to the FPS demo posted, responses are as if this is done. Its not, not even close. Its only just begun, and will have the same level of changes and progress we already see right on our hard drives with the flight portion. Can things go wrong? Yes. Will they? Yes. Should they just stop because of that? Hell no. That process is called development, mistakes are made, things are changed, feedback integrated. That's what development IS. I'm going to say this again: That's what development IS. Fact of the matter is, people see progress, they see changes, they see feedback integrated right in front of their faces. They talk to friends, more people get excited. This is why they back. |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 05:03:37 PM by Mrbloodworth »
|
|
|
|
|
Sir T
Terracotta Army
Posts: 14223
|
What exactly are you getting right now for your 40 dollah in the door money?
|
Hic sunt dracones.
|
|
|
Mrbloodworth
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15148
|
What exactly are you getting right now for your 40 dollah in the door money?
Everything. Squadron 42 single player. Access the the PU. ( No sub ) The software to host your own PU. It breaks down more than that ( Such as MOD API access ), but that's the gist. There is ZERO content behind a pay-wall. None. Zero. Zip. If someone thinks there is, at the most that can be attributed to communication, but as we all know, some people the best communication in the world would not help. But malice? No. That's dumb. |
|
|
|
Rendakor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10138
|
Is all of that stuff actually implemented and playable?
|
"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
|
|
|
Mrbloodworth
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15148
|
Is all of that stuff actually implemented and playable?
Its in Development. It does not matter if its "in yet", this is what 40$ gets you. Again, falicy is treating this as a finished product. It's not. Its still being funded and developed. If you do not find value in that, do not pledge. |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 05:09:10 PM by Mrbloodworth »
|
|
|
|
|
Mrbloodworth
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15148
|
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 05:39:41 PM by Mrbloodworth »
|
|
|
|
|
lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8021
|
Is all of that stuff actually implemented and playable?
Its in Development. It does not matter if its "in yet", this is what 40$ gets you. Again, falicy is treating this as a finished product. It's not. Its still being funded and developed. If you do not find value in that, do not pledge. If it's not implemented and playable then it does not "get you" anything. |
|
|
|
|
Malakili
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10596
|
Well, I mean, pre-ordering is a thing. I'm willing to bash on this game as much as the next guy, but I'm not going to apply some arbitrary standard for a $40 pre-order/alpha access. There are far better things to nail this game to the wall for than this.
|
|
|
|
|
Rendakor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10138
|
I only asked because Sir T asked what $40 got you right now, and I didn't think MBW's list was implemented yet.
|
"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
|
|
|
|
Venkman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11536
|
Oh look, another corridor shooter... innnnn spppaaaccceee. There was more third dimensional fighting in Bungie's Marathon 20 years ago than I'm seeing here. But I don't blame this game's development. Instead I'll blame the goddamned console controllers. And maybe that people don't really want infantry fighting in the third dimension. But then I'll just blame a generation of gamers brought up on goddamned console controllers  Am I wrong when I say that even 100M wouldn't be enough for all the stuff they want to make and with that level of detail? Despite the success, money could run out any moment here.
If they had a bucket with finite cash they were drawing from, yes, $100mm isn't enough for everything they've promised. However, two things to keep in mind: 1. They'll keep getting money as long as the dream is alive. 2. "Good enough" is all contextual. Kinda doesn't matter if a diehard fan of BF likes the FPS mode in SC. Just matters if a backer does. I don't get how SC deserves some type of unique conversation about fools and money parted. This is no different from loving the idea of a pre-launch thing so much your abject faith in it knows no critiques. I'd say at least half of us have been an apostle for some game design doc in our lives. My own was DAoC, pre-F13. Others have been more recent. It's Bloodworth's turn at SC.
I am ashamed to say that mine was Vanguard. My Little Pony, Online. Wait, which version? And, ha, we need a single airing of grievances thread. What was the one game that broke our beliefs |
|
|
|
|
rk47
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6236
The Patron Saint of Radicalthons
|
I only asked because Sir T asked what $40 got you right now, and I didn't think MBW's list was implemented yet.
Oi, kid. Senpai's been around at it for longer than you. We know how this works. Pre-order things and then you get something. How can you call it paying for nothing? Ever ordered a pizza with credit card? It took me 40 minutes. Jesus. Now that's paying for 'maybe somethings.' In his case it'll take him 2-3 years for the pizza to arrive. So it's all good. Maybe when it gets there, there'll be extra toppings. And we all know anything extra for pizza is a bonus. |
Colonel Sanders is back in my wallet
|
|
|
|
 |
