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Title: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 11, 2012, 08:41:14 AM
http://robertsspaceindustries.com/start/

Quote

    Welcome!

    If you've made it here, you probably know who I am. Maybe you have heard of Wing Commander and its sequels, or perhaps Strike Commander, Privateer or Freelancer.

    If not, you're still welcome!

    I grew up making video games. I sold my first game at the age of 13 and created Wing Commander when I was 21. But 10 years ago, at the height of my career I took a break. Not because I stopped loving or playing games but because I had become frustrated with the limits of the technology at the time to realize my vision.

    I decided to pursue my desire to create detailed worlds and tell sophisticated stories in film.

    I always said the moment I became interested in making games again was when I was going to come back.

    With the power of today's computers and the reach of the internet I finally feel I have the tools to build the connected experience that I always dreamed of. A world that would be more satisfying and richer than any film I could work on.

    With films you tell stories but with games you create worlds.

    If you've played my games, you'll know that's what I love to do.

    I'm here to tell you that I have been working on something for just under a year, something that embraces everything that my past games stood for but takes it to the next level.

    I hope you'll be as excited by it as I am.

    My new endeavor is still in its early stages but I invite you to take the journey with me.

    If you register below you'll become an insider that will not only give you early access to the game's website and forums, but you will also get the opportunity for rewards and privileges that no one else will get. It's my way of showing how important your early involvement and support is.

    The full announcement will be at 10am Eastern Standard Time (UTC -5) on the 10th day of the 10th month of this year.

    My name is Christ Roberts.

    And if you would indulge me I would like to create a world for you.

Quote from: Figuring out the Secret code on the site!

(http://media.bestofmicro.com/T/R/352287/original/starshipbridge-740x300.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Zaljerem on September 11, 2012, 08:56:30 AM
As long as he doesn't try to make any more movies, I'm good ...  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 11, 2012, 09:43:31 AM
I Really liked Outlander.

Anyway.

I hope this is a Privater/Freelancer persistent world that uses a Minecraft like hosting system. :)

EDIT: or as a friend is reminding me, like Freelancer.  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Riggswolfe on September 11, 2012, 10:15:01 AM
I wonder if it will be in the same "world" I'm guessing not since EA probably owns it. I signed up on the site because I would kill for a wing commander style space sim to come back!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Xuri on September 11, 2012, 12:18:02 PM
Sounds promising. Website is a bit bugged though :P

I open the site in Opera, and I get a countdown with an "enter access code" message. I am, however, unable to actually click on the text-entry field and enter the code.
I open the site in IE 8 (oh, hush) and I never see the countdown, but instead skip directly to a welcome letter and an enlist button :P


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 11, 2012, 12:41:46 PM
Hes from the 1990's. Cut him some slack!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yegolev on September 11, 2012, 02:03:31 PM
I had to google.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Raguel on September 11, 2012, 04:02:57 PM
I was just thinking, with playing SWToR and Raph posting, why both SW mmos failed so hard with space combat, and wouldn't it be cool if there was a Wing Commanderish mmo? At any rate I'll look forward to this.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on September 12, 2012, 07:01:23 AM
SWG Space Combat was quite awesome.  It's just they didn't have it at launch.

Though I'd still love a new Privateer.  (Military life isn't for me. ;)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Raguel on September 12, 2012, 10:16:06 AM
SWG Space Combat was quite awesome.  It's just they didn't have it at launch.

Though I'd still love a new Privateer.  (Military life isn't for me. ;)

I didn't know it was added at all, tbh.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on September 13, 2012, 12:17:16 PM
LOVED WC series and Privateer. Don't think I played Freelancer. I have faith he can do something cool. Looking forward to it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 13, 2012, 02:41:19 PM
For a more complex simulation with a hard learning curve, we have the excellent "X" series, so I'm perfectly fine with it; but I would really look forward to a more cinematic and plot driven experience that goes alongside a more accesible simulation aspect (Freelancer tried to do exactly that).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Riggswolfe on September 13, 2012, 04:45:09 PM
I've got my golden ticket and can't wait to see what he has going. I loved the WC series because it hit that sweet spot of space flight simulation and story. Is Freelancer the one that came out with the mouse controls a few years ago? I never did get around to finishing it because it was lacking, well, something I never put my finger on. I thing it was basically a story and characters that I cared about.

I wonder, will he try FMV again or go with CGI cutscenes?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Kail on September 13, 2012, 08:14:57 PM
Is Freelancer the one that came out with the mouse controls a few years ago?

Yeah, came out in like '03 I think.

It was supposed to be a sequel to Starlancer, in the lame "it takes place a thousand years later in a different place and has none of the same ships, factions, characters, or setting" way.  I never played Wing Commander, but I really liked Starlancer, between missions it had these neat little first person FMVs whenever you switched from one screen to the other so it really felt like you were walking around in the carrier.  That blew my mind at the time.  It was also kind of hilarious in that it had a killboard where all the top aces from the war were listed, and you'd see new pilots move up the ranks or older pilots removed when they died, but nobody apparently noticed that your character was sitting at the top with like double the number of kills as the "elite top ace" everyone else fawns over.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Riggswolfe on September 13, 2012, 10:41:42 PM
Is Freelancer the one that came out with the mouse controls a few years ago?

Yeah, came out in like '03 I think.

It was supposed to be a sequel to Starlancer, in the lame "it takes place a thousand years later in a different place and has none of the same ships, factions, characters, or setting" way.  I never played Wing Commander, but I really liked Starlancer, between missions it had these neat little first person FMVs whenever you switched from one screen to the other so it really felt like you were walking around in the carrier.  That blew my mind at the time.  It was also kind of hilarious in that it had a killboard where all the top aces from the war were listed, and you'd see new pilots move up the ranks or older pilots removed when they died, but nobody apparently noticed that your character was sitting at the top with like double the number of kills as the "elite top ace" everyone else fawns over.

That happened in the Wing Commander games too. You'd hear about how some pilot was the best ever and you'd look at the killboard and he'd have like 6 kills and you'd have 37.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on September 13, 2012, 11:25:21 PM
I pretty much always sent my wingman back to base in WC. When it would let me, anyway.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: koro on September 14, 2012, 12:43:49 AM
Wing Commander Privateer (which I didn't try for my first time until a few years after Freelancer hit) can actually do the same type of mouse control, which I found kind of surprising. It's also quite fun.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 14, 2012, 12:55:18 AM
"Everybody knows about the Maniac...Everybody!" (I watched this a lot of times thanks to the VHS that came with my UK "movie reel" premiere edition)  :grin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfQ-mF4mZ8M


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: K9 on September 14, 2012, 07:08:36 AM
Freelancer is right up there on my list of games I would love to have another of. Space trading/combat sims are a bit of an unloved genre I feel.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 14, 2012, 10:41:12 AM
Is Freelancer the one that came out with the mouse controls a few years ago?

Yeah, came out in like '03 I think.

It was supposed to be a sequel to Starlancer, in the lame "it takes place a thousand years later in a different place and has none of the same ships, factions, characters, or setting" way.  I never played Wing Commander, but I really liked Starlancer, between missions it had these neat little first person FMVs whenever you switched from one screen to the other so it really felt like you were walking around in the carrier.  That blew my mind at the time.  It was also kind of hilarious in that it had a killboard where all the top aces from the war were listed, and you'd see new pilots move up the ranks or older pilots removed when they died, but nobody apparently noticed that your character was sitting at the top with like double the number of kills as the "elite top ace" everyone else fawns over.

Free lancer was closer to Privater, obviously they were on the same line.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 09, 2012, 09:01:55 AM
Quote

    The Roberts Space Industries Reveal is Coming Soon

    Hi Everyone,

    Our time for the big reveal is nearing! Please tune-in for the live internet broadcast via Gamespot at 10am EST on October 10, 2012.

    Once the announcement is made there will be NO more golden tickets distributed and together we will forever be the founders of our new universe! Be sure to tell your friends to register before 10.10.10 so that they can be included.

    Several of you have asked to attend GDC Online in Austin in person and we would love to see you there! Please fill out this form to let us know you're coming so we can provide further details and make arrangements to include you.

    As a Thank-You from all of us at Roberts Space Industries, every Golden Ticket Holder -- should you choose to join us on our new adventure -- will receive defining gold decals for your spaceship to immortalize your early support.

    Together we will shape the universe - one or one million polygons at a time.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 10, 2012, 09:01:56 AM
OMFG! (http://www.gamespot.com/shows/gamespot-live/?event=roberts_space_industries_gdc_panel20121010)


Squadron 42 - Star Citizen Announcement Trailer (http://youtu.be/W_QDv7DFfxk?hd=1) - Trailer only link.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Zaljerem on October 10, 2012, 09:32:55 AM
May this come to fruition.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 10, 2012, 09:46:44 AM
Did you watch the whole presentation?

The vector thrust system is fucking nuts!

EDIT: Also, AVATARS!

Quote
After a quick tour around the asteroid field, Roberts parked his ship on an exterior wall of the enormous carrier ship, where some other spacecraft had been parked. He exited his own ship, walked across the exterior of the carrier, and boarded another small craft, before flying back around and landing the second craft in the belly of the carrier.

Quote
Furthermore, Star Citizen will include what Roberts describes as "Millenium Falcon-style" ships, in which player will actually be able to get up and walk around to different stations. Friends can climb aboard and mount the turrets in the back. Even more exciting, was the prospect that some player-controlled ships would be large enough to carry a smaller ship in its hanger bay that a friend can jump into when the fighting breaks out. A helpful thing if, as Roberts put it, "we're going on a trading mission to the edge of the galaxy where there's no law and order."

lol @ eve online ( * Ducks * )


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 10, 2012, 10:25:39 AM
http://robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen/

Crowdfunding ends in 30 days


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 10, 2012, 11:26:15 AM
Star Citizen - Full five minute Squadron 42 trailer  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN8MZHT74sE) -  Turn on HD.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 10, 2012, 01:04:11 PM
Have all my babies. Now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: apocrypha on October 10, 2012, 02:29:00 PM
How is this not setting off people's bullshit detectors?

This is ridiculously over ambitious & doomed to failure.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Trippy on October 10, 2012, 02:30:51 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3e/Strike_commander.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sheepherder on October 10, 2012, 03:09:28 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d1/WingCommanderBox-front.jpg)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/86/WingIIbiglogo.jpg)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/32/Wc3boxart.jpg)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/30/Wing_Commander_IV_-_The_Price_of_Freedom_Coverart.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 10, 2012, 03:11:39 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/35/Wing_Commander_-_Privateer_Coverart.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Amaron on October 10, 2012, 03:15:19 PM
How is this not setting off people's bullshit detectors?

This is ridiculously over ambitious & doomed to failure.

Seriously what?  We can't talk about it even if we think it's going to fail?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on October 10, 2012, 04:09:42 PM
Saw the video earlier. Looks freakin' amazing and does everything I've wanted since (Sky, say it with me): Freespace 2  :grin:; however, a crowd-sourced PC game launching after the next console generation comes, from a guy nobody's heard from for the last two console generations, yea, I'm not holding my breath.

But I'm downloading that video and keeping it. Forever.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ingmar on October 10, 2012, 06:09:14 PM
The FPS ship invasion bits sound potentially game-ruining.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: lamaros on October 10, 2012, 06:42:08 PM
Why does the trailer feature a ship with a landing strip? They're in space...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Amaron on October 10, 2012, 07:25:33 PM
Why does the trailer feature a ship with a landing strip? They're in space...

Because it looks cooler that way.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: lamaros on October 10, 2012, 07:40:05 PM
Does it? I'd rather a game about space be imaginative.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 10, 2012, 09:59:10 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4d/Fl_box.jpg/220px-Fl_box.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: apocrypha on October 10, 2012, 10:42:47 PM
Seriously what?  We can't talk about it even if we think it's going to fail?

Talk about it all you want, I'm just surprised that nobody had been usefully cynical yet.

And yes guys, I know who Chris Roberts is and what games he's made. And what films he's made, and all the ones he's written & directed have been utterly, utterly terrible. He only produced Outlander, but that was utterly, utterly terrible too IMO. Lucky Number Slevin and Lord of War were much better, I liked them, but this is all irrelevant really :p

I'll pop back in 5 years and see how this is going, but I strongly suspect anyone ponying up for this particular Kickstarter is contributing to a unicorn hunt.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on October 11, 2012, 05:54:42 AM
That's okay.  Much like Wasteland 2 and MWO, this is a guy who inspired my childhood dreams and giving me hope for a product I've wanted for decades.  I'm okay giving him a bit of cash in thanks.  If I actually get the game he wants to make out of this?  I win.  Everything.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on October 11, 2012, 07:50:02 AM
Game's website has been down all morning.

I've played and enjoyed some of these games but the guy sure does like to plaster his name on everything.  So my question is this - is he a megalomaniac douchebag or not?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 11, 2012, 07:53:08 AM
I think every game he has made has had such a clear, concise vision, no ones name could be on it.

He also comes from a time when games were made by one or two people. Games were more like Novels in how they were packaged back then.

Example:



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 11, 2012, 09:09:46 AM
Yeah well, I always considered him and Garriott quite similar :) (from an outsider perspective, of course) . Now that I think about it, Origin at the beginning of the '90 had Spector, Garriott and Roberts  :heart: ; plus, Looking Glass with a similar relationship to the Black Isle/Bioware of a few years later...Good times.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 12, 2012, 10:36:34 AM
Quote
When I said I missed old school difficulty to gaming you probably didn’t think that I would make the pledge process more difficult than fighting the toughest boss monster in Demon’s Souls!

Well neither did I!

Wednesday morning we set out to prove that PC gaming and Space Sims are not dead… and prove it, we did!

We're absolutely floored by the attention and humbled by your comments. We hoped everyone would be excited about the big idea behind Star Citizen and Squadron 42 -- but we had no expectation about the kind of praise and interest we received yesterday.

The downside of all this attention was that the huge number of people from all around the world trying to learn about Star Citizen and make their pledge, crashed our custom crowd funding page and also took down the core community site.

Until then, we were on track to break crowd funding records. Now, thirty hours later, we're only just getting the core site back online. The proper crowd funding page is still unfortunately down, but we have a backup site that, while not having the full range of features we intended, can take people’s pledges. With this site we have to update the data manually as there is no way to easily collect the crowd funding statistics on a live basis, which is why you haven’t seen a counter on the backup site. We are working very hard to get the main crowd funding plug in to play nice with the rest of the site, so we can deliver the seamless experience we envisioned when opting to have the crowd funding integrated into the main community site. Don’t worry, no one has lost their golden ticket, and we will ensure that everyone who makes a pledge on the backup site is connected to their community account. Please be patient while we organize this process.

We didn't just set out to raise money to build a game; we set out to build a community. The intention was never to shut off the forums, disable the Golden Tickets or stop the flow of information after the launch; anything but. We hope you'll bear with us as we get the community back online. The features you've enjoyed for the past month will continue -- the Comm-Link, RSI Museum and Time Capsule -- along with much more information about Star Citizen and chances to interact with its development team. As we move forward in this endeavor, you are our strongest asset; a vanguard of dedicated fans who will help us build and promote this game.

If you're one of the lucky few warriors that snuck past the Java trolls and WordPress goblins to access the pledge site yesterday, thank you so much for your dedication.

If not, we promise we’ve beaten back these evil interlopers and ask you to pledge and spread the word to make this new universe possible. We are listening to you on the forums, are committed to giving you daily updates and will be rolling out some exciting new features in the coming days that hopefully make up for our initial snafu.

We lost the opportunity to break the first day record, but the race isn’t over yet! We currently stand at $455, 590 raised from 4,564 pledges which is pretty impressive considering the outage we’ve had. Seems everyone wants the RSI Constellation and physical goodies!

But we need get this up. Space Sims trumped RPGs in the old days, let’s get a little of that inter-genre friendly rivalry back!

If you haven’t made your pledge yet, please do as I would hate for the technical problems to have derailed our initial momentum. We still have a ways to go but I have no doubt with your support we will get there. This is our chance to tell the world: PC gaming and space sims are BACK!

Chris Roberts
Cloud Imperium Games

Half a mill in two days.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Shaje on October 12, 2012, 02:39:26 PM
The idea of playing something like this with the occulus rift has me sold. Yea, its way too ambitious and just can't deliver everything promised. Don't care. It's vision is what I have wanted since watching star wars for the very first time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on October 12, 2012, 05:37:32 PM
Why does the trailer feature a ship with a landing strip? They're in space...

Hey, the Galactica had them, all of the shuttle-equipped Starships had them, and most of the latter ISDs did. Not having them in a space game would be more wierd than the more realistic tracker-beam and/or docking cones we'll probably end up going with in a few hundred years :-)

Having said that, thing I always hated in space sims was landing. Always screw them up.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ratman_tf on October 13, 2012, 06:10:38 PM
Why does the trailer feature a ship with a landing strip? They're in space...

The space fighters had jet intakes too.  :why_so_serious:

Lotta callouts to the orginal Wing Commander in that video. Vega sector, the icons on the alien ships. I hope they have talking cat people, because the Kilrathi were the best WC baddies.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yegolev on October 13, 2012, 07:15:36 PM
tracker-beam

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/85916/spock_wut.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on October 14, 2012, 01:57:04 PM
LOL. Shit, as much as a geek as I am, I'd think I'd catch that.

I could go full on nerd defensive though and claim I meant some type of object tracking technology for ships to properly target shuttles for coordinated landing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 14, 2012, 02:59:36 PM
Quote
Goal: $2,000,000
Raised: $688,128
Space Sim Fans: 7,164
Crowdfunding ends in 26 days


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on October 14, 2012, 04:42:54 PM
Not bad, but I still don't know what he thinks he can do with $2mm. Maybe finish a fully functioning playable slice to shop around for some real funding?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Goumindong on October 15, 2012, 01:20:00 AM
Why does the trailer feature a ship with a landing strip? They're in space...

Yea and why are there fighters! Why aren't ships just lobbing massive chunks of metal at each other using currently existing technology to determine the location and trajectory of ships hundreds of thousands of kilometers away?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on October 15, 2012, 05:42:23 AM
Do we know what the golden tickets do yet?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Amaron on October 15, 2012, 06:44:23 AM
Quote
Goal: $2,000,000
Raised: $688,128
Space Sim Fans: 7,164
Crowdfunding ends in 26 days

I feel like he would of gotten a million right away on kickstarter.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 15, 2012, 07:03:25 AM
Not bad, but I still don't know what he thinks he can do with $2mm. Maybe finish a fully functioning playable slice to shop around for some real funding?

AFAIK, all hes looking for is 2 mil, + the numbers of supporters to show some inverters he already has on the hook. So, its really just an interest gauge. I think I read somewhere the budget is something like 20 million.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: kaid on October 15, 2012, 07:14:47 AM
SWG Space Combat was quite awesome.  It's just they didn't have it at launch.

Though I'd still love a new Privateer.  (Military life isn't for me. ;)

I think SWG would have been a wow like hit if it had their space combat stuff in there from day one. It was a great addition but by the time they added it the people had already started the exodus.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 15, 2012, 08:08:44 AM
Various Dev quotes from the forums in response to threads:

Quote
Star Citizen – Forgettable Name – Plz change it!

Ben Lesnick:

“Interesting thread, guys! We’re watching all of this closely, of course. It mirrors the development process pretty closely… Chris was debating the name up until the very last minute possible (about a week before the announcement, when he had to start his press tour with a visit to PC Gamer… and needed a name.) Lots of late night e-mail conversations trying to pick something.

For my part, Star Citizen has grown on me an awful lot and I’m rather proud of it now. I think it’s the sort of name you’re going to appreciate a lot more once you get into the world of the game, where citizenship (and the question thereof – pirates!) and the sheer number of possible careers for players are going to be a big part of the game. Heck, it makes a lot more sense than ‘Strike Commander,’ a game that was rarely about commanding strikes…

… all of that said, I AM very amused by Joystiq’s headline about our crowd funding efforts: “Chris Roberts’ new space sim Star Citizen has already raised over $455,590 despite being called Star Citizen”

———————————————————————————————–

Difference between ‘Member’ and ‘Subscriber’?

Ben Lesnick:

“The way it should work is that subscribers are users who haven’t posted yet while members are those who have.”

———————————————————————————————–

Anyone get anything from a Support or a Dev?

VG:

“All pledges, regardless of where they were placed, will be recorded and matched to your ID. I know we might seem silent, but we are very active behind the scenes, believe me”

———————————————————————————————–

General pledging FAQs


Ben Lesnick:

“I’m working through all the support emails right now and am going to catch up on the forum posts.”

“The plan is to let you increase your pledge after the 30 days… but we may have different packages available at that time! (We’re running low on some already…)”

VG:

“Obviously, because the site went down and the backup site has been collecting pledges since Wednesday, we have a lot of data to merge, but rest assured that regardless of what email you used to register or purchase, and/or whether or not your account here works properly, your pledge will be properly credited to your account.”

———————————————————————————————–

Perma death or not

Ben Lesnick:

“The short answer is that we just don’t know yet. It’s too early to balance the game exactly.

I know Chris is very keen on the idea that death is an actual punishment; that there has to be some impact for losing your life beyond just respawning somewhere else. Whether that’s some downgrade in equipment or a loss of credits or something else is totally up in the air right now. (My guess is that your base ship is safe… wouldn’t be fair to sell you one via pledges if you could immediately lose it!)

I did watch him talking about optional insurance during one of his press interviews the other day, which is one way to do it. That would play into the whole you-take-your-own-risks/control-your-own-destiny aspect.”

 

Christopher Roberts:

“Love this thread!

I promise I will take the time to answer this in a comm-link in the near future.

My concept for the dilemma  of modern day instant re-spawn, no penalty vs. old school lose everything start at the beginning will hopefully cater to most of the view points here. Both sides of the argument are valid and I want to strike a balance. I will promise you it wont be like a modern day shooter with zero penalty but it wont be so harsh as you lose everything (well in most cases!). Your ship is a large part of who you are in this universe so there will be multiple options to make sure you don’t have to start from the beginning if you get unlucky. But in all cases it will definitely be an inconvenience if you get blasted (kind of like a car accident is even if you have insurance)!”

———————————————————————————————–

General information about ships

RSI Facebook:

“We’ll release more information on the ships soon! If you think of it like Privateer, the Aurora is the Orion, the 300i is the Galaxy and the Constellation is the Centurion…”

““The Constellation is the top of the line fighter; think the Centurion in Privateer. The big carrier is a “Bengal class” and we aren’t selling those… you’ll have to earn one in the game.  You will always have your preorder ship — no way to lose it permanently. You can also buy other ships and upgrade your starter as the game progresses.”

“…ships can be changed in the game later. You’re not locked in to one, you’re just able to start with a special one if you pledge more money. Think of starting Privateer with a Centurion instead of a Tarsus!”

———————————————————————————————–

General information about landing on planets : cut-scenes or seamless?

RSI Facebook:

“We’re looking at both options for planets. I know we’d LOVE to include atmospheric flight, but it’s a money/time issue… so I can’t promise it just yet! Thanks for your support!”

“Everything will be bigger than Freelancer! You will certainly land on planets, visit bases, etc.”

———————————————————————————————–

General information about Localization

RSI Facebook:

“ There will be localizations. Merci and Danke Schon. Thanks”

———————————————————————————————–

What are the specs going to be?

RSI Facebook:

“Too soon to know! But we’ll try and get you a rough idea in the next week.”

———————————————————————————————–

General physical goods information

RSI Facebook:

“The citizen cards are physical items that replicate something you’ll have in the game – sort of your in-game identity card.”

———————————————————————————————–

General modding information


RSI Facebook:

“Hello! Yes, the idea is that there is both a living central server that everyone can connect to AND the option for Freelancer style player-run worlds where modding/experimentation/etc. are all encouraged. We’d also like to work with the mod communities to integrate the best of the best of what they come up with on their servers into the main world.”

———————————————————————————————–

Question about Physics

Christopher Roberts:

“First post on the forums! I finally have a few spare minutes.

As someone that was taking Physics at Manchester University before I dropped out to make games full time I can assure everyone that the physics model is COMPLETELY accurate and its a full rigid body simulation. I know because I wrote the code.

Maybe I should have done a better job in the demo, but if you are flying at speed and you set your desired velocity to zero you WILL see the top front thrusters articulating and firing to slow your velocity. If you watch my demo you will notice there is some momentum with the Hornet when I slow down close to the bridge. It may not have been apparent on the screen, but I can assure the Hornet does not stop on a dime. if you load it up with more mass (like extra weapons) you feel the effect of this.

There is no drag modeled – everything is done as it would be in space.

Additionally there is actually counter thrust being applied inside the physics and if you had your hands on the controller you would feel it. If you look closely you will see the inertia of this – the ship doesn’t stop rolling or pitching on a dime. There is however a very good reason why you don’t actually see the thrusters fire entirely accurately.

The problem with visually depicting the proper thrust is that it would actually look pretty horrible (trust me this is how I first did it, and is still pretty easy to switch back to as I’m actually doing some extra work to make the visuals looks nicer).

The reason is because there is no drag in space, so even a micro amount of thrust starts the Hornet (or any spaceship) rotating until you apply counter thrust. So what is really happening is that the flight control system is always applying micro thrust and counter thrust to achieve the pilot’s inputs. This results in the thrusters flickering off oand on in micro amounts and you actually not getting a good feel of the general application of thrust. I think you know I like things to look cool (come on, we all know you probably wouldnt be engaging in space dogfights at WW2 speeds, but its so much more fun than what the reality would probably be), so what happens is that the system is still modeled accurately, but I use the angular /linear velocity delta to drive the visual represntation of thrust. Here’s my code comment

//Note the thrustGoal is actually the linear velocity delta (desired vel – current vel of
//the vehicle & rotational vel rather than the actual linear & angular acceleration / thrust.
//This is because, while inaccurate its cooler to see more constant thrust that gives
//you a visual clue as to what correctional movement / velocity vectors the vehicle is using.
//If we just used the acceleration as opposed to the desired velocity correction, the thruster flames
//would flicker on and off – especially in the Wing Commander use case of Space, where
//there is no atmosphere to provide drag.
//Of course if you pass the actual accelerations to SetThrustGoal, then you’ll get an accurate
//visual representation of what a thruster would really do

I hope that clears up any confusion!

I will admit that the ship doesn’t need to have wings or fans on the front, but the idea behind that is for possible atmospheric flight (this is not a promise of planetary action for the early build but allows for expansions in this direction), and as a RAM scoop. Plus it just looks / feels cool.”

———————————————————————————————–

Cheaters/botters be gone

Ben Lesnick:

“Interesting question, and it’s something we’re going to be thinking a LOT about in the next two years. My gut tells me that the first big anti-cheating factor in our game is the fact that it’s skill-based rather than click-based. If you want to win a space battle in Star Citizen you damn well have to handle a joystick… and as I think pretty much every air and space combat game ever has proven, you can’t be an AI and do that well.”

“I’d be a damn liar if I told you we were going to make sure it never happened ever. The fact is, there’s a segment of the audience that’s GOING to try to exploit the system and that IS going to figure out how to turn our game against us. It’s just a 100% certainty. So what I will promise is that we’re going to be a damn sight more reactive to this stuff than others have been in the past. Star Citizen is being designed so that we can update it quickly rather than rebalancing with big patches every six months. What’s more, we’re building the game WE want to play… and if someone has figured out how to mess it up, you can believe me we’re going right in and closing that loophole as fast as we can.”

———————————————————————————————–


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on October 15, 2012, 04:08:34 PM
This I will donate to.

I think SWG would have been a wow like hit if it had their space combat stuff in there from day one. It was a great addition but by the time they added it the people had already started the exodus.

Muuuusstt resist!

Eh. Can't. Space was too connected to the janky ground game to have kept the early folks from leaving.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on October 15, 2012, 09:15:12 PM
Am I the only person who thinks Star Citizen is a great name for a "Privateer Online" style game?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 17, 2012, 07:47:30 AM
Quote
To say we’ve had a lot of questions in the past five days would be an understatement. We’re hard at work on an official RSI FAQ to supplement the great work being done by users at the forums. It will have its own place at the website soon, but we wanted to go ahead and share the work-in-progress here since many of you have questions you need answered now! Please post additional questions in the comments and we will do our best to keep this updated.

My community account is not showing my pledge!

We are currently working to sync our pledge database and our community database. Your pledge will show correctly soon and we will send out a message when this process is complete. If you pledged from a different e-mail than your RSI account, we will contact you after the database sync to incorporate your pledge manually.

Is my Golden Ticket gone?

No! We have a record of your Golden Ticket and it will be returned to your account in the near future. We won’t forget our earliest fans!

Is Star Citizen an MMO?


No! Star Citizen will take the best of all possible worlds, ranging from a permanent, persistent world similar to those found in MMOs to an offline, single player campaign like those found in the Wing Commander series. The game will include the option for private servers, like Freelancer, and will offer plenty of opportunities for players who are interested in modding the content. Unlike many games, none of these aspects is an afterthought: they all combine to form the core of the Star Citizen experience.

What are the “Citizen Cards”?

Citizen Cards are physical props to prove that you have supported Star Citizen and will be one of the first pilots in space when the testing process starts. They will be wallet sized cards that you can carry with you anywhere you go. Citizen cards will also appear in the game itself, showing your character’s social standing, credit account and so on. We’re hoping to make them available to backers by Christmas 2012, so you can gift the game to friends and have something to show for it!

Can you tell me about the different ships?

We’re working on concept art right now that will show you the different levels of ships! For now, imagine the sort of ship advancement you encounered in Privateer or Freelancer, with the Aurora being the basic ship and others being improved or more specialized craft. The top-of-the-line ship in our pledge campaign is the RSI Constellation, which is a multi-person craft that includes a turret and a smaller fighter that can be manned by your friends!

How will modding work?

Players will be given full control of their game! When operating private servers, players will be able and encouraged to mod the game. It doesn’t stop there, though: we hope to institute a ‘mod approval’ process that will allow the best of the best player created ships and other additions to be integrated into the central persistent world as well.

Can I upgrade to a bigger ship?

Yes! You will always have your ‘pledge’ ship, but you can purchase and fly others to your heart’s content in the finished game. Star Citizen will feature plenty of other ships and we expect players will want to earn credits and figure out which suits their particular style of play best. You can also upgrade to a bigger ship during the crowdfunding phase by pledging additional money.

What platforms will Star Citizen be available on?

Star Citizen is a PC game through and through and could never be played on the Xbox 360, Playstation 3 or WiiU. We currently plan to support Windows and are examining our options regarding possible Linux and Macintosh releases. The Cloud Imperium team includes many Linux and Macintosh fans!

How can I work for Cloud Imperium Games?

Please e-mail hr@cloudimperiumgames.com with your information.

Will Star Citizen only be in English?

No, we plan to support many languages. A huge percentage of space sim and PC gaming fans come from Europe and especially Germany, and we want to make sure Star Citizen is accessible to everyone. The game will initially be localized to French, German and Spanish with plans to handle other languages afterwards.

Can you explain the stretch goals?

The purpose of the higher stretch goals is to ensure that the game-as-described is finished in the two year time period. We intend to build the game that Chris Roberts described at GDC Online regardless, but without additional funding we are going to have to do it one piece at a time, starting with Squadron 42, rather than as a single larger production. With more funding we can include more ships, systems, unique locations, animations and cinematic sequences.

Why Direct And No Publisher?

Publishers are useful in the old physical distribution world, but the Internet is the great equalizer. Notch didn’t need a publisher to reach 20-million Minecraft fans. Riot games didn’t need a publisher to reach 30-million League of Legends players, and Wargaming.net didn’t need a publisher to reach 20-million World of Tanks gamers. If we were building a big “AAA” console game it would be crazy to try without a publisher. But we want to build a PC game and publishers increase costs because of their need to recoup their sizable overhead cost. We want to make sure all the money raised goes directly to the development of the game. So we’re throwing ourselves on the mercy of the PC gamers out there that share our vision and passion for the platform and the space combat genre to raise money outside of the “cartel” of traditional publishers. The game will cost less, be more creatively pure, and, most importantly, be built for the real “core” audience – not some corporate suit worried about including all the casual gamers.

Is Star Citizen “free to play”? A subscription game?

To play Star Citizen you need only to buy the initial game. There will never be a monthly charge for usage. Some in-game items may be available as microtransactions, but we will NEVER sell anything that can’t be acquired through honest (and fun!) gameplay.

What will the gameplay be like?

Star Citizen will feature gameplay similar to the original Wing Commander and Privateer, with a more realistic physics system. This means that it is NOT a ‘click to kill’ interface like most modern MMOs; your success in combat is going to depend as much on your skill with a space fighter as it will with your ship upgrades and your pocket book.

Why not Kickstarter?

We love Kickstarter. We’ve backed projects on their site, and believe everyone in the development community owes a debt to Kickstarter for putting crowd funding on the map, and making it legitimate. But for us the ultimate goal of crowd funding is about connecting the “crowd” directly with the creators with as little friction as possible. By building a crowd funding component directly into our site we can insure everyone who wants to back the game can – we provide multiple payment options to make sure that wherever in the world you are there is an option that can work for you. It means you just have one destination to support the project, read updates, and most importantly participate with other members of the community! All on a site that’s designed around the game universe being created, providing the least friction possible. Kickstarter, as great as it is, can’t deliver this experience, which is why we’ve decided to go it alone.

Can you estimate the system requirements for Star Citizen?

There will be a lot of optimization in the next 24-months, plus the usual fast pace of technology, so it is hard to say absolutely. At the moment you will be able to play it on a 4GB dual core PC with a GTX 460 or greater, but not with full fidelity. If you’re running an i7 2500, 2600, 2700 or better with a GTX 670 or greater you will get the full experience and we will only scale up from there. You will need a dedicated GPU. Since the game is built on CryEngine, their system requirements will stay roughly the same as ours.

Link (http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/draft-faq/)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 18, 2012, 12:22:30 PM
Now on kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/). Rather open video to go with it.

Star Citizen adds Kickstarter! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zN5q7sBKmc&feature=youtu.be)




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Trippy on October 18, 2012, 12:58:25 PM
Am I the only person who thinks Star Citizen is a great name for a "Privateer Online" style game?
Possibly. Being a citizen of a single star doesn't seem all that exciting to me (i.e. we Earthlings right now are "star citizens"). "Stellar Citizen" would be better, IMO.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on October 18, 2012, 01:25:27 PM
Now on kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/). Rather open video to go with it.

Star Citizen adds Kickstarter! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zN5q7sBKmc&feature=youtu.be)
So they built a huge, redundant, unnecessary system to collect donations that crashed on them their first day when there was already a perfectly viable solution available, then they changed their minds and are now using it in addition to their own?

That bodes well for the success of the actual project.

Also, anything that you are this excited about is doomed to fail.  I don't know why, you just seem attracted to things that don't work.  You are like a litmus test for disaster.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on October 18, 2012, 02:02:27 PM
words
You are like a litmus test for disaster.

OMG..... You might be right. Please go out and support Romney. You have an amazing superpower... USE IT WELL!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on October 18, 2012, 02:05:31 PM
Also do they have pictures of the ships for the various levels anywhere?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on October 18, 2012, 09:36:22 PM
There's a term to made up for manipulating Kickstarter as a promotions tool, since, "Game X appears on Kickstarter!" is easy copy for blogs to write. Which you want so that more people pour money into the Kickstarter.

I didn't look - if Star Citizen fails to hit its target on their own site, are they refunding the money or keeping it?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on October 19, 2012, 04:41:44 AM
There's a term to made up for manipulating Kickstarter as a promotions tool, since, "Game X appears on Kickstarter!" is easy copy for blogs to write. Which you want so that more people pour money into the Kickstarter.

I didn't look - if Star Citizen fails to hit its target on their own site, are they refunding the money or keeping it?

Refunding it minus a transaction fee (or something) assuming you ticked the 'yes refund me' box when you pledged


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on October 19, 2012, 06:27:23 AM
They're past half-way to their original goal on their own site, and looking to break the Kickstarter goal in a few days.  I doubt refunds will be an issue.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 19, 2012, 12:35:35 PM
Exclusive Interview: Star Citizen's Chris Roberts - Mittani (http://themittani.com/features/exclusive-interview-star-citizens-chris-roberts)

Quote
Yesterday afternoon, Chris Roberts (of Wing Commander, Freelancer and Privateer fame) was down to visit another studio to share ‘war stories’ regarding CryEngine 2. On his way back home, he decided to give me a ring and talk a bit about Star Citizen, Eve Online, and the future of space sims while braving the dangerous I-405.

Star Citizen is a newly announced space simulator game with ambitious, if not outright grandiose, goals. Featuring a full single player campaign (with coop mode possible), multiplayer private space combat servers, an entirely moddable interface as well as a public, persistent online universe, Star Citizen seems to promise something for everyone even vaguely interested in playing internet spaceships. Of course, with any ambitious plan there are always doubters, naysayers and (dare we say it) even haters - but Chris Roberts is unfazed by these facts of life. His enthusiasm and belief in the vision of Star Citizen goes back many years and will not be stopped any time soon.

For those of us that have seen the announcement trailer and subsequent footage to come out, it seems like a hugely exciting project. How long have you been working on the game so far?

Chris: Basically I’ve been working with a small team over the course of the past year to get the early prototyping and production done. The team has varied in scale from just me, essentially, to about 10 people. That’s just the actual work though.

Star Citizen is the game, essentially, that I wanted to make when I was working on Freelancer. A very big game, with both single player and multiplayer, a game that you could play with other people on a large scale. I feel I never really got to realize that dream. Microsoft was the publisher of Freelancer and at the time was very focused on getting the Xbox developed, as well as titles for it. I never got to do Freelancer the way I wanted to - it has always felt like a bit of unfinished business.

If EA didn’t hold the rights to the Wing Commander franchise and you somehow ended up with them, would Star Citizen be called something like ‘Wing Commander Online’, or do you feel that the game is essentially different from Wing Commander or Freelancer to the point that you would have renamed it anyways?

Yes, if I somehow owned the rights to Wing Commander still, this would definitely be Wing Commander: Star Citizen or something like that. Star Citizen really is the spiritual successor to all of my work with Wing Commander, Freelancer and Privateer. If I had to sum it up, it is essentially Wing Commander and Privateer blended together.

You have stated that you expect to have an Alpha up and going in about 12 months, with a beta roughly 10 months after that and then launch. For a game of this size and scope, do you think you can really be done in the next two years?

Really it is all about constant iteration from launch. The whole idea is to be constantly updating. It isn’t like the old days where you had to have everything and the kitchen sink in at launch because you weren’t going to come back to it for awhile. We’re already one year in - another two years puts us at 3 total which is ideal. Any more and things would begin to get stale.

Speaking of constant updates, you’ve stated that you would like to roll out updates on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. How sustainable is that vision and what kind of investment of resources do you foresee that taking?

Obviously we would scale up the staff over time until, once live, we have about 20-30 people generating content, not counting high-level development of new features. The idea is to set up a structure for the players to use and add in new content as the spice, where the player-generated content is the meat. Eve Online does this very well. You don’t want to be like [Star Wars] The Old Republic, where all your content is heavily scripted.

Implementing more intelligent procedural systems as in real life, driving player behavior, and then sprinkling in some studio developed story content is what will give us the longevity we need.

You mention Eve Online and obviously have some knowledge of it. Have you played it, or just followed its progress?

I have played Eve a little bit but never really got hardcore into it. I’m more of an in-the-cockpit kind of guy. The game concepts, the ideas that CCP has put out - they have done a great job of it. They are the only ones, really, holding the fortress for space [games]. As for playing Eve, it is really a matter of scale. For myself, I would rather be in a cockpit as opposed to flying a big freighter or something from a distance.

There are obviously some close similiraties on a conceptual level between Star Citizen and Eve Online. How much has CCP’s progress with EVE impacted your current development of Star Citizen?

The main thing is that they proved it could work. Eve Online is a bit larger scale, but has most of the same stuff as when I was pitching Freelancer. Dynamic universe, player driven interaction, etc. CCP has done a really good job of proving that the concept works. What I want to do now is basically make Star Citizen the Call of Duty to Eve Online’s Company of Heroes, in that Star Citizen will give more of a first person, in the moment experience while Eve Online provides a strategic point of view.

The thing that would be really cool, for me, is to have player’s making their own groups like in Eve. My ideal scenario would be something like one player setting himself up as some kind of Criminal Overlord out in the fringes of space, with an asteroid base and hired [player] muscle, harrying other people. Then those other people band together to go take out the Criminal Overlord and his group in order to maintain their own safety or profits.

[Editor’s Note: At this point in the interview, things nearly came off the rails as a typical LA area driver decided it would be a good time to slam on their brakes for no apparent reason. After confirming that Mr. Roberts was alright, we continued...]

You have planned many ways for players of Star Citizen to make a living, including trading and mining. Mining in Eve is literally one of the dullest experiences in modern gaming. What are you planning to make mining something fun to do?

[Laughter] Mining and trading will take some level of actual flying skill, whereas in Eve you are just sort of clicking a button every once in awhile to make money. It’s sort of like playing Farmville and I hate that stuff. I feel that the first person, active flying experience in Star Citizen will turn, for instance, a boring trade run from Eve Online into a more immersive and exciting experience.

Other games in the past have sought to provide a sort of two-part game, though not on the same level as we will see in Star Citizen with its Squadron 42 component (referring to the single player/coop mode of the game). In particular Age Of Conan springs to mind. However, AOC was fairly terrible, as the first 10 or 20 levels was fully voice acted, really high quality content - and then there was nothing. Could you go more in depth as to how the Squadron 42 aspect integrates with the overall Star Citizen universe?


I know just what you mean. I played Age of Conan and yeah, the beginning was really cool then you seemed to really run out of content. We’re definitely going to avoid that with Star Citizen. Squadron 42 is going to be the kind of military campaign, a linear campaign, reminiscent of Wing Commander. Something where, if you only have a little bit of time or you just don’t want to deal with everyone else trying to backstab you. You’re in the military and you go out on these missions. Once you finish your tour of duty, you muster out into the open universe and pursue your goals. In the end, players may prefer one or the other, in which case they will just have to wait for more content to be put out.

Star Citizen also has plans to enable privately hosted servers that can run mods of the game, either in coop campaign mode or as a small scale space combat server. Will players be able to transfer characters between these private servers and the persistent universe hosted by yourself? How is that interaction going to be handled?

You know, I really don’t have a good answer for that right now, its a bit of a problem that we’re working on ironing out. Probably you will only end up being able to transfer your character itself, not any of the money you earn on the private server or the ships you acquire. The whole point of the public persistent universe is to make sure people stay honest and are coming by their goods legitimately. You won’t be able to mod yourself a megaship in a private server and then take it out into the universe.

The most recent FAQ put up on the Star Citizen website definitively states that Star Citizen is not an MMO. Obviously, with single player and private hosted servers, it isn’t just an MMO, but doesn’t the online persistent universe make it an MMO in some way?

To be honest, all these classifications are a bit silly. We stated it isn’t an MMO because when people hear ‘MMO’ they think of subscriptions and World of Warcraft. We wanted to reassure old Wing Commander and Privateer fans that this they wouldn’t have to pay a subscription to play a game they love. Obviously at no point does this mean you won’t be able to play with your friends - who doesn’t want to do that? It is an MMO in the aspect of having a big, massive galaxy, a persistent universe, that sort of thing. But it will also have a full single player game, so it isn’t always an MMO.

What kind of consequences will there be for death in Star Citizen? Can your ‘flesh and blood’ avatar be killed?

Well, when your ship blows up, you’ll be floating out in space and someone can pick you up and take you to the nearest space station or planet. There will be things like insurance for your ship and even for your cargo in the event of its demise, but there will also be things like tariffs and taxes in the safer parts of the galaxy - someone has to pay for that protection. So in some parts you won’t need insurance, but will pay taxes. In others you won’t pay taxes, but will definitely need insurance. It is sort of like the real world - if you live in a bad neighborhood, you pay more in insurance. In Star Citizen, insurance rates will vary depending on where you get it.

I like setting up the world and letting the players gravitate towards whatever they want to do. As a developer, you are always surprised by what the players want to and eventually end up doing.

You plan on having Star Citizen not only support the typical mouse, keyboard, joystick and gamepad that you find in PC gaming, but also things like rudder pedals, flight chairs and the Oculus Rift. Why go to such great lengths to support equipment that isn’t that prevalent, and what kind of impact will this have on development costs?


I feel like I’m making a game for the enthusiast. If someone not only spent the money on a gaming PC to play Star Citizen, but also dropped 100, 200 dollars on some other equipment, I want to be able to say to them ‘You paid for it, you should be able to use it’.

In terms of development time, it doesn’t take much. Input is input and if I didn’t think we could accommodate all those different types of peripherals, I wouldn’t have the support in the game.

Earlier today you launched a Kickstarter campaign after previously going with your own crowdfunding solution. How is all of that going?


Well, the website had some issues when we first announced the game. People weren’t able to see their pledges right away and I’m sure some weren’t comfortable going with just some website. I like Kickstarter a lot, I’ve supported multiple projects on Kickstarter, so when we had these issues Kickstarter came to us and said ‘how can we help?’. They’ve been excellent at helping expedite the process of getting a Kickstarter set up for people that want to use them.

Not using Kickstarter to begin with was never about saving the 5% fee they charge or anything like that. It was about making pledging as frictionless as possible for those who were already supporters of the site and the game.

Any parting words for the Eve Online community or in general?

If Eve players are interested in more of a first person, spaceship type of experience, it would be awesome if they backed Star Citizen. I really want to show the big publishers that there is significant demand not just for space games, but for PC games as well, and that people love them!

Thanks very much for taking the time to talk to us!

So there you have it - words straight from Chris Roberts. To find out more about Star Citizen I highly recommend checking out the website for the game. Unlike some that stay stagnant for weeks or months while in development, Mr. Roberts is committed to putting out updates on various aspects of the game as often as possible.

And if, as Mr. Roberts said, you fancy yourself a bit of a cockpit kind of guy like him - definitely back the project. It has raised over $1 million USD on the RSI/Star Citizen website itself in about a week and an additional $100,000+ on Kickstarter (in just a few hours).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on October 19, 2012, 05:53:44 PM
Just to say, as of this moment the donation totals are:

$1,137,872 12,582 backers on RSI's own page
$215,185 / 5,155 backers on Kickstarter

Total: $1,353,057 / 17,737 backers


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Simond on October 20, 2012, 06:03:53 AM
Odds on EA suddenly deciding that the time is right to revive the "Wing Commander" name at some point in the next year or two?
They could just give it to one of the Biowares and have them churn something out for it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on October 20, 2012, 09:58:44 AM
Wing Commander the Old Republic?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Amaron on October 20, 2012, 01:29:00 PM
Odds on EA suddenly deciding that the time is right to revive the "Wing Commander" name at some point in the next year or two?

They would shoehorn fighters into Mass Effect instead.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on October 20, 2012, 02:58:49 PM
I agree. With Shepard reportedly not being in ME4, I'm curious where the series will go. If it's just post Reaper mop-up, that's years right there while alliances fall apart and enemies become strong again. But then, I didn't hate that ground truck thing from ME1 as much as apparently other people did. :-)

I was always curious why in all the main games and DLC, there was never actually any real space in the game. I'm not sure it absolutely needed it (which I guess is one reason right there). But it woulda been nice to have been part of the final space battle over Earth, or even to have had to do some type of game-y thing to fire the BFG at the Collector ship near the end of 2.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on October 20, 2012, 04:42:59 PM
With Shepard reportedly not being in ME4, I'm curious where the series will go.

The obvious answer is 50-100 years in the future, when everyone's recovered from the destruction of the relays. If that's still in the neo-retro-double-plus-remix ending, I don't even know.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on October 21, 2012, 06:37:20 PM
That's another good point. There are three possible immediate futures: no humans, no reapers/technology, or synthesis. They can't afford three different universes that reflect those three states, much less how they evolve differently in 50-100 years.

That makes me think even more of "meanwhile, elsewhere in the galaxy" type setting. Or a completely different galaxy. Or the past. Or they're forced for business reasons to hamfist a convergence that basically says whatever your choice, it all led to something else: synthesis failed, the humans weren't really detroyed (we were just kidding), and 50-100 years again we achieve roughly the same level of technology we had before oh and figured out how to reactivate the mass effect gateways because branding must be maintained.

I should say though that I'm ok with all that. I found the universe interesting and would stick with it as long as quality content continues comes along.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on October 21, 2012, 08:22:18 PM
Donation watch, because I'm being a nerd.

$1,247,462 / 13,867 backers on RSI
$360,222 / 8,100 backers on Kickstarter

Total: $1,607,684 / 21,967 backers (+$254,627 and 4230 backers since Friday night)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Shaje on October 22, 2012, 07:28:09 AM
With 18 days to go, RSI should feel pretty good about this. Adding the kickstarter option probably saved this project.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 22, 2012, 07:32:36 AM
Quotes taken from Josh Strike, UI Designer at Cloud Imperium for HUD's as used in Star Citizen
Quote

POST 1

    Hi all, I just wanted to introduce myself. I’m the designer/coder for the Star Citizen HUD and additional 2D elements. While a good deal of my work wasn’t integrated in time for the live demo, that was largely because what we’ve been doing has pushed the limits of Scaleform and CryENGINE – and is radically different from the standard game HUD formula that’s prevailed for the last decade.

    Taking inspiration from previous Chris Roberts ship controls, nothing in our work is similar to the templates you’ve seen in more recent games; it’s been engineered from the ground up to deliver an unparalleled degree of control and detail to the pilot. Chris is an inspiring guy to work for, and I’m honored to have been picked for the job. We aren’t cutting any corners.

    All the elements of the HUD systems we’ve developed are based on procedural algorithms and can be customized to different ships and styles to a huge degree of depth and flexibility, keeping the scope of the universe in mind. My task is to pack as much useful information as possible into tight, clear displays, to give pilots those crucial visual cues that can mean the difference between life and death in a dogfight.

    The HUD will be your friend, and learning to read it reflexively will shave crucial milliseconds off your reaction time. Sometimes it feels more like I’m developing an avionics package for the military than for a game! For my qualifications, I have 15 years in Flash/Flex development, including dozens of casual games and a custom gaming platform for a Bitcoin site I operate. I’m very much a DIY, self-employed developer, and this is my first team effort in over ten years. But this is a game I’m dying to play, and I couldn’t say no… I’ve been a fan of Chris’s work since I was a kid playing Wing Commander, and it’s a dream job for me to work with the team he’s assembled.

    There are lots of reasons to pledge to this project, but one of the best (in my view) is that the authenticity of the flying/fighting experience is going to be unparalleled. I can confirm that all the pieces are in place to ensure that it will be – and as for the avionics, I think this HUD will be the gold standard in “AAA” games for the next decade or longer. I hope to hear your feedback as we go along, and thank you all for showing your support and helping to building this awesome game!

POST 2

    I’m looking forward to showing off the design, and I’ll see if we can’t get a sneak peek in here pretty soon! You can catch a tiny bit of it in the “Immersion” video at [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVua...&>feature=relmfu which shows some of the earliest integrations of marks, radar and ship displays when you climb into the cockpit. Although this is just the tip of the iceberg, you’ll notice the screen displays there look quite a bit different from anything in the other videos. What you’re seeing (for HUD-skeptics) are functional components with a lot of data layers and controls built in, but they aren’t engaged >yet in that video.

    Mea culpa, by the way. I was trying to do something that hadn’t been done before, which was part of the reason we missed our integration target, which is most of the reason why the targeting reticles and gun pips weren’t in for the live demo (which is why Chris missed the enemy ship — and why some people seem to doubt the HUD exists). But I promise the end result is well worth it; you’ve never seen this stuff in a HUD before, because we had to rewrite parts of the CryENGINE/Scaleform integration code and roll a whole bunch of new graphics methods just to make it work.

    I’ll shut up now before I say too much, and leave it to Chris to make the big announcements

POST 3

    Thanks for such a warm welcome! Can’t believe so many people stopped by to say hi while I was sleeping. I’m by no means able to answer all the questions, and I should be getting back to work :P but I guess I can give you all another good teaser…

    I’m seeing a lot of questions about 2D vs. 3D displays, and about 3D HMDs vs. cockpit-projected HUDs. In fact, Chris made the decision to use all three types in Star Citizen from the beginning.

    There’s a fixed holographic projection within the cockpit, which overlays things that don’t move with your head, e.g. velocity, acceleration, attitude, altitude, heading and targeting data. This projection has depth for greater effect (along the lines of what you see in that Scaleform promotional video), and also uses some (non-essential) stereoscopic depth cues to assist the pilot in reading certain situations more quickly. You don’t need an Oculus to get all the same info, but I’m not saying the depth cues won’t give you a slight edge.

    In addition to that, there’s a separate projection on the inside of the pilot’s helmet which can be loaded up with with deeper data sets (e.g. ship status, weapons selection, power balancing, navigation maps, communications, etc). This HMD projection stays in your field of vision when you turn your head.

    Finally, elements from both of these projections can be shunted to the flat LCD displays or brought back up to their respective projection, and have been designed to shift shape, color and opacity, and/or break into separate elements, depending on whether they’re being displayed on a flat screen or holographically. So yeah, there was definitely some inspiration from Minority Report and Iron Man, but at the same time these elements are very much in the CR space sim style, and my primary goal is to remain true to his original vision.

    I should stress that these projection layers exist, and about 80% of the gizmos are fully functional; in tests, they have been added to the projections and screens and run successfully with dummy data. The part that’s not yet complete is the full integration that sends active environmental data to the components. The HUD is a platform in itself with 62 custom classes and a 20-page API manual so far. There are hundreds of data points that need to be connected up to the ship’s systems, so we’re still in the process of getting the cockpit fully “wired”.

    And no, we’re not deviating from the classic polar-mapped radar screen! But we’ve added some nice touches like sector heat mapping, and ship-on-your-tail alerts.

    Additionally, someone asked me about incorrect and/or damaged displays. Every element in our HUD responds to damage. As Chris built the fly-by-wire system to procedurally handle an infinite range of ship states based on damage to various components, that philosophy was extended to have damage also rendered procedurally in the HUD. Just as one example, text in the HUD is not pre-rendered or even generated on the fly as a block; it’s printed procedurally to the displays one character at a time, with a greater likelihood of transcription error (or garbled transmission) depending on specific damage to your avionics or communications systems. Response to damage is a bedrock feature of every element in the HUD and has a negative impact on boot times, data latency and accuracy. If this sounds like something not recommended in a scaleform project, it isn’t – and they said it was crazy – but we’ve refactored, honed and optimized it to work.

    So, I’ll end it here before I give away all my tricks, but I’ll drop back in from time to time. Meanwhile, stay tuned for the next vid!"

POST 4 (21.10.12)

    Good luck to all of us!

    I just want to say, as far as modding the HUD, a lot of things (e.g. colors, custom drawing styles) are written to be extremely moddable. I imagine custom skins will be an early addition. Totally custom HUDs that include unique ship configurations are probably further down the road. We’ve overcome some major technical hurdles with Scaleform in terms of getting all of our procedural elements to work, although the trade-off is that we had to mod the SDK a bit so it’s not as easy to compile these things in. But the HUD is made to be very, very flexible… we’ve already got some in-house programs written to ease the process of integrating new elements and new ships… so I do think community modding of the HUD is ultimately in the cards.

    Also: Personally, and not speaking for RSI, I’m a big fan of Privateer, and the exploration/trading side of things (although with some good dogfights to spice it up). Actually one of my favorite games from back in the day was Starflight, which was pretty much all about that. I still have great memories the planetary analysis that would piece together the atmospheric and mineral composition of new planets you’d orbit. My 9-year-old best friend and I (can’t resist linking to him) decided to start a software company to build an open universe after playing that game, which ended a year later with a journal full of dozens of solar systems and a bunch of hypercard stacks.

    So from my perspective, civilian uses for the HUD and ship’s systems are absolutely crucial as well, and they won’t be neglected in Star Citizen. It’s one of the reasons I’m thrilled to be part of the team.

Source

http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/forums/topic/hello-from-one-of-the-devs/

Example Vid of Scaleform

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zKDuzVbi50Q#!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on October 23, 2012, 06:49:46 PM
Their Kickstarter has succeeded. $502,036 from 11,096 backers, with 26 days left on the clock.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on October 23, 2012, 07:30:18 PM
The investors actually paying for the bulk of Star Citizen's development will be delighted.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on October 25, 2012, 04:14:47 AM
It would appear that, between the official site and Kickstarter, the $2mil milestone has now been reached

I do think that the costs for adding additional ships to an existing pledge are too high though :-(


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 25, 2012, 07:26:04 AM
Interview: Chris Roberts Gives Us a Glimpse on Star Citizen and Squadron 42


link (http://www.dualshockers.com/2012/10/24/interview-chris-roberts-gives-us-a-glimpse-on-star-citizen-and-squadron-42)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 25, 2012, 10:56:54 AM
Star Citizen Ships Development Document (http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/ships-plan/)

And, the project is funded:

Quote
Hello everyone!

Less than two weeks ago, I reached out to the gaming community to help me prove that the PC game wasn’t dead. That there was still an audience for the kind of games I created with Wing Commander and Freelancer. To prove that Space Combat wasn’t finished as a genre

I hoped that the answer would be yes, that the demand would be there and that it would come together in a way that would ultimately let me build the world I have been dreaming about for many years.

What I didn’t expect was how quickly it all happened.

Last night, just four and half days after our Kickstarter campaign launched, we passed the $500,000 mark, making it successfully funded, and another Kickstarter success story.

As I write this we are less than $50,000 from reaching the RSI goal of $2 million in overall pledges that makes Star Citizen a “go”. It’s unbelievable.

I’m proud to represent this cause and I’m tremendously humbled by the incredible community that has rallied to my side. Not just the donations–which have been astounding –but also the stories and the creativity I’ve encountered interacting with you in the comments and on the message boards and elsewhere. Like me, you have all seen Star Citizen, no matter what you may have called it, in your head for many years… and thanks to your collected efforts; I’m going to build it for you.

I have two pieces of information to share with you tonight. The first is the long-awaited design document about Star Citizens five pledge ships. Time and time again you’ve asked what an Aurora or a Hornet or a Constellation is. I’m happy now to be able to share our design concepts. These are the specifications we’re building on as we create the game world and they’re the descriptions I have sent to the artists who are putting together the ship models. Normally you wouldn’t see this kind of inside information, especially not this early, but I hope you will find it interesting and get a kick out of getting an insider’s view of how game development works.

The second piece of news is the news that you can finally upgrade your pledges at RobertsSpaceIndustries.com. If you’ve decided you would like to upgrade to a higher tier of ship or if you would like to increase your support for the project for any other reason, you now have that option. In addition we have heard you loud and clear on the Forums, on Kickstarter, Facebook and on the recent poll. You want the ability to add additional ships to your base package. So we’ve given you that option too. I hope you’ll enjoy seeing our plans for these ships and then choosing the one that best fits how you want to play the game.

Tomorrow, we’re going to be adding additional information about stretch goals… more specific levels and in-game rewards that you can achieve. In the near future we will have the upgraded forums online and we will start opening additional content at the RSI website. There’s a lot to look forward to!

So, pilots: we’ve won our first furball! But, there’s plenty more work to do. Let’s knock out the $2M in overall pledges that green lights Star Citizen, then set our sights on the stretch goals. The more of these we can hit, the richer and more varied the game I can deliver. We’re less than half way through the campaign, so I know we can go much further. If you’ve already backed, spread the word. If you’re still waiting to, then please join the cause.

Thank you, truly, for your unbelievable support. We have $45,840 to go! We can get there by MORNING!

Chris Roberts


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Rasix on October 25, 2012, 10:58:03 AM
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/82533/tumblr_m9snikkOyp1revsmeo1_400.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 25, 2012, 11:00:30 AM
You did not think it would reach its goals?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Rasix on October 25, 2012, 12:11:42 PM
Dial the shillage back a tiny bit. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on October 25, 2012, 12:15:40 PM
More importantly, find another game to love.  I want this one to turn out well.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on October 25, 2012, 12:23:54 PM


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 25, 2012, 12:55:53 PM
Dial the shillage back a tiny bit.  

How is posting articles and news about a game I am following shillage?



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on October 25, 2012, 07:35:11 PM
I think Rasix is referring more to Chris Roberts.

The "now that we're funded, so only now can I release some details about the pledge ships that are utterly meaningless in a title that is years from launch" was a nice touch though.

But now the only thing to do is to wait for Roberts to deliver on every one of his promises.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on November 08, 2012, 02:17:59 AM
In an act of shameless slef promotion if anyone was planning to pledge to this and hasn't yet done so there is now a referral scheme operating, let me know if you're interested and I'll send you my referral URL


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 14, 2012, 09:17:48 AM
Star Citizen - FINAL WEEK PUSH (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp_eYvXhx5c&feature=youtu.be)

Star Citizen - Pilot AI Work In Progress  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuynSgAvleo&feature=youtu.be&hd=1)

The following for me personally, has been something I have wanted clarification about.

Quote
Hi everyone!

I get a lot of questions about how the whole persistent universe works and what I mean when I talk about battle instances.

I’ve given some answers but as it keeps coming up, I thought it would be good to give all of you a longer description in how this all works and fits together.

One of my goals with Star Citizen was to create a huge open world that you could adventure in solo, with your friends, mingling with NPCs and other real people.

Freelancer was built to have up to 128 players in multiplayer, but as a few of you know that was more a theoretical maximum than something that was really practical, especially back in 2003.  When I started building Freelancer, partly inspired by the work done on Ultima Online (which was in development when I was still at Origin), the fun I was having playing multiplayer games like Command & Conquer  and Diablo I had wanted to bring the Privateer experience into the bold new world of multiplayer.  My original vision for Freelancer was to first release a single player game and then follow it up with massively multiplayer version with a dynamic economy and a world that reacted and adapted to the players actions.

I didn’t get a chance to deliver this vision and ultimately while Freelancer was a good game, it fell short of what I was aiming for.

With Star Citizen I was determined to combine what I wanted to achieve with Freelancer, with the personal experience that I think both Wing Commander and Privateer were so strong with.

But me being me, I wanted to combine things I like about the promise of a MMO, but avoid the aspects that I’m not so keen on like splintered player groups, griefing and grinding. I also was really impressed with how Demon’s Souls merged the single player experience with the multiplayer side.

 

All of this helped form my thinking on how Star Citizen is going to balance the difficult balancing act between multiplayer and single player.

All multiplayer games – whether they are a persistent world massively multiplayer game (MMO) like World of Warcraft or just an online multiplayer game like Battlefield 3 – have a limit to the number of players that can be active in anyone area or level. This number is usually inversely proportional to the amount of data that needs to go between the client and the server. For a game with complex physics and a fully destructible terrain, like Battlefield 3 the number of players that can active in an instance is less than a game with less real time fidelity like WoW, or Eve on Line.  But in all cases there are always more players than any one server instance can handle. For a persistent multiplayer world like WoW the solution is to split up the player base into more manageable groups called “shards”, which are a permanent instance of the universe that look after a certain amount of players.

One thing I don’t like about most MMO structures is the fragmentation of the player base between these “shards”. If you had joined much later than a friend of yours, there may not be room on his world instance anymore and you have to join another parallel one and so cannot play together. This is one of the nice things about the Eve Online design – everyone plays in the same universe.

In Star Citizen there is going to be one persistent universe server that everyone exists on. So you will never be separated from your friends, and if you want you’ll be able to join up and adventure together, you can.  Due to the fidelity of the dogfighting and physics simulation we can’t however handle thousands of players in the same area of space. Even if you had enough internet bandwidth to handle the data going back and forth and a super computer for the server there’s no PC, even with quad SLI that could render that many spaceships with Star Citizen’s fidelity.

So the “magic” of Star Citizen’s multiplayer design is how we combine a persistent universe with a more traditional (and easier to implement) temporary multiplayer “battle” instance.

The way it works is that the persistent universe server, which we’re calling the Galaxy Server, keeps track of all players’ assets, group relationships and locations inside the Star Citizen universe. As the Galaxy server isn’t handling any realtime action it can handle our complete player base, which right now would be about 45,000 players, but is designed to be able to scale to millions if need be. The other key thing the Galaxy Server does is dynamically place players based on their location, skill level, alignment and player versus player (PvP) preference into battle instances. Think of a “battle” instance like a Battlefield 3 multiplayer session or a World of Tanks Battle with the key difference that the selection of players is done transparently and is “in fiction”.

An illustration of how this would work is like this –

I start out planet side on New Pittsburg. I decide to buy a few tonnes of steel to fly to the shipyards of Terra. I’m currently in the hands of the galaxy server that communicates with my client and handles my purchases and interactions on the planet as these are not real time in the manner that the space action is. We render these in the manner of Freelancer, as detailed 3D environments where we see a third person view of our character in a location and we can click on Non Player Characters (NPCs) or terminals to buy / sell, upgrade your ship, get gossip, hear about a mission and so on.  You’ll also be able to interact with other players via a chat interface. We haven’t fully worked out the player avatar handling planet side but the bar or private clubs will be where you can meet / chat to other players. Besides populating the bar with NPCs, the game will also populate the bar with other players. If there are more players planet side than there are slots of avatars in the bar the ones visible to you will be based off your friends list and then it will be based on relevance to you – a player looking for a wingman, one from a similar group, or maybe someone that you’ve been given a mission to find or hunt down. You will also be able to see the full list of players in the room if there are more players than there are slots. Default would be a drop down list for this, but as I hate anything that breaks the immersion, we’ll probably come up with a better in fiction way of seeing the list of players – maybe you tell the bartender who you’re looking for, maybe you can look at the door list for the bar.

Having bought my cargo I launch into space. If there are players already in orbit there will be an orbit instance already created. If it’s not full then I will be placed into that. If it is full then a new one will be dynamically created. All orbit (and battle) instances reserve slots for friends and persons of interest (POI), which can be NPCs or other players, so if you’ve launched and there are multiple orbit instances and you have friends already in orbit you should be placed into that instance. This is also the dynamic that will be applied if you want to follow another player – you can “tag” them as a POI and then the game will do its best to place you in the same instance as your POI. For instance if you tagged someone planet side and they launch your PDA with its future version of Siri will notify you that your POI is leaving, giving you a window to launch into space too.

Once in orbit I can pull up my Navigation computer and set a course for my destination. If its several systems away like Terra, the nav computer will chart a course through the relevant jump points. You will be able to adjust this like on Google maps, so if you click a different jump point on the system map it will then re-route you on the shortest path to your destination with that jump point as the first “jump”

Once I’ve plotted my nav course I would then engage auto-pilot and head towards my first “way” point on the path to my destination (a jump point, an interim space feature, like an asteroid belt and so on). At this point I’ve been handed back to the Galaxy Server, which is determining whether I will encounter a hostile, someone that has tagged me as a POI, or a predetermined encounter on the way, or if I’m going to run across ongoing battle instance that is relevant to me (some members of the instance are aligned against or with me). These encounters could be with an NPC or a live player(s) and are sorted on skill level and also – which is important to all of you that like a more single player experience and don’t want to deal with griefers – based on your player versus player (PvP) preference. So if you’ve set your game settings to be low PvP and you’re in a relatively safe area, you’ll likely have an NPC (PvE) encounter as opposed to a PvP one. Of course your ranking and any reputation you earn won’t be the same with a PvE encounter versus a PvP. My hope for this dynamic is that it will allow people to first play Star Citizen in a safer more single player open world style, but as they grow in confidence and want to test their mettle against other real players they can take the training wheels off and get into battles with real players. There will also be areas of the universe that no matter what your PvP setting is, will be PvP. These will be systems that are on the fringes of the policed galaxy and will be notorious for pirate and other illegal activity. They will also be the most lucrative areas – if you can survive.

Now if you’re flying with your friends, who you can link to via the game POI “tagging” system, they will be with you when you’re pulled into a battle instance, whether it is against NPCs, real players or a combination of both.

Once the Galaxy Server has determined that you will have an encounter based on the above criteria it either dynamically creates a battle instance, or puts you in one if one already exists at the encounter point, and that instance has room for new players.  To exit this instance you either have to resolve the hostilities by defeating who’s targeting you, negotiating an exit or just outrunning them. Once in an instance you can put out a distress call to your friends. There are two ways people on your friends list (or squadron as we’re going to call it) can help. We save slots in all instances for friends to warp in to fight. To do this they need to be in the same system. If they are they can autopilot in to your rescue and will be dropped into the instance. If they’re not in the star system, if they can get to your system before the battle is over then they can join (but will only be able to join once they’ve reached your system). The second way for your friends to help out is by “dropping in” on your ship. This only works if it’s a multi person vehicle like the RSI Constellation. In this scenario they don’t need to be in your system, they just will drop in inside your ship and will be able to move around in first person, climbing into a turret to man it, or jumping in you P52 to fly it in combat while you fly the main ship (or they could fly your main ship and you pilot the fighter)

Once the hostilities or the event (sometimes you could be pulled into an instance because you came across a derelict ship or space station and we want to give the player a chance to explore) that triggered the drop out of auto-pilot has been resolved, you can hit auto-pilot again, get handed back to the Galaxy Server and go about your way on the nav course you’ve plotted.

You will always drop out at jump points and planets, where you will need to either make a jump to another system or land.

This process is continued until you reach your final destination, which in my example would be Terra, where I would use my comm system to negotiate a landing slot, which would take me down to the planet’s surface via an in-engine cinematic. Once planet side I’ll be able to sell my cargo, replenish my supplies and look for new opportunities via the third person planet side interface.

The advantage of this system is that is allows you to tailor your experience towards your preference – solo, co-op or full PvP. It also doesn’t partition you into different, parallel versions of the Star Citizen universe as everyone is kept on the persistent server. Because our battle or orbit / space instances are temporary, you’re never stuck

with one group over the long term and due to our heavy emphasis on friends and co-op, there will always be room for your friends to join you on your adventure; whether it’s against other players or NPCs.

The same instance system underpins the single player Squadron 42. If you’re playing off-line, your computer will be acting as the server and client, there will be no opportunities for friends to join and everyone will be an NPC. But if you play Squadron 42 through the Galaxy Server, even though your missions and space areas are pre-determined (you don’t get to pick where in the galaxy you are flying if you’re in the military) we will allow your friends to drop in / drop out to take over NPC wingmen and if you want extra skill ranking you can allow other players to drop in and take over enemy ace characters. This system is pretty similar to the Demon’s Souls setup where people could drop in as a Blue Phantom to help you kill a boss monster or fight off another invading player, or you could drop in as a Black Phantom to someone else’s world and try and kill them for XP and other gamerewards.

The key to all this is to allow player choice – you want to play alone you can, want your friends to join you in co-op we allow that and if you want to be challenged by other real players you can do that. The special part is that it can all happen in the same holistic universe.

I hope this helps in terms of understanding how we’re balancing the aspects of multiplayer as well as making the game fun.


I'm still not sure how seamless this will be in practice. Some of what he says reminds me more of "Final fantasy" random encounters rather than freelancer trade lane disrupting.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on November 14, 2012, 04:34:17 PM
Sounds like Pirates of the Burning Sea. Not a bad thing, but not really the omg-how-many-people-are-here?! that Eve can sometimes deliver.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on November 15, 2012, 05:44:06 AM
Massive space battles are neat to see on rare occasion.  If they're the rule rather than the exception, I can do without the slide show.  Give me small dogfights any day.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on November 15, 2012, 08:05:30 AM
Hm. I'd be more interested with a rich freelancer-style galaxy on a privately hosted server with centralized authentication, more like minecraft.

I'm holding off on this one until release. Obsidian doing an infinity game? Sure. Roberts returning from retirement to do an mmo? Skeptical.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Shaje on November 15, 2012, 10:33:17 AM
I'll second the private server preference. That is where all the modded in ships from other IPs will be available, so that's where I'll be.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 15, 2012, 10:49:47 AM
Sounds like Pirates of the Burning Sea. Not a bad thing, but not really the omg-how-many-people-are-here?! that Eve can sometimes deliver.

I'm currently playing the Discovery Freelancer mod. I have no need of Eve Numbers in a battle. 100 can feel epic enough. Current Discovery mod server limit is around 200. Star citizen? 100 per sector. ( Supposedly )

Hm. I'd be more interested with a rich freelancer-style galaxy on a privately hosted server with centralized authentication, more like minecraft.

Players can run their own in star citizen. Everything above applies to personal servers too. As I understand it.

To add, Freelancer Vanilla server, and Discovery freelancer are, already basically MMO's. Discovery however, has removed the limitations of Vanilla. In Vanilla, you got the top tier ship or whatever on the server, there was nothing to do. Discovery has added a factional and corporate war. Its much more dynamic. So, other than the matchmaking outlined above...Hes made this game before, at least twice.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on November 15, 2012, 01:30:06 PM
I have no need of Eve Numbers in a battle.

I have enormous respect and admiration for what EVE is capable of. Given a choice, though, I'd prefer an FPS-like online environment with 128 concurrent players, flight sim reactivity over server-saving "time dilation," and the possibility of regularly fighting alongside 10 people I know and 20 people I see regularly around the server. Less anonymous zerg blobs, more fun with friends.

A couple of years back I wanted to get a group together to discuss the MMORPG concept I've been working on since 2004. I never managed to get a forum going, so... fail. Chris Roberts appears to have been reading the doc off my hard drive, because Star Citizen is at least 70% of what I wanted.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 16, 2012, 07:13:35 AM
(http://assets2.ignimgs.com/2012/11/15/011jpg-19d36e_640w.jpg)

Quote
Wing Commander and Freelancer creator Chris Roberts has been busy. Though he took some time off from game design to work in the film industry, he recently announced his return with a new space sim called Star Citizen. After showing an initial demo and releasing an early trailer, Roberts started crowdfunding to get Star Citizen off the ground, securing more than $3 million dollars between Kickstarter and his own website. Many fans donated $250 or more, often to secure themselves a space ship they didn't know the look of or function, acting simply on faith that Roberts and his team could deliver something special. To learn more about the RSI Constellation (the first big ship to be revealed), the team's approach to ship design, and Star Citizen overall, we interviewed Game Director Chris Roberts and Lead Conceptual Artist Ryan Church.

"Who doesn’t want their own Millennium Falcon?," responds Roberts when I press him about why the Constellation has been a common pledge level despite its $250 price tag, "What’s been interesting is that people have been signing up for the Constellation just on the promise without knowing what it will look like. I’m guessing that now people can see the attention to detail they may just want to upgrade."
   
Indeed, as a longtime fan of spaceships and science fiction universes like Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica and Star Trek, I'd say the ship looks impressive. It features a gigantic, pod-like cockpit at the front, a pair of turrets on the top and bottom of the ship, and a general aesthetic that makes Constellation look like a combination of the Han Solo's famous ship and the titular Firefly-class ship from the now defunct TV series. There are even places on the ship that Roberts and team have yet to decide the purpose. "You should be able to eat a meal or drink something in the kitchen! I don’t think we’ll go to the extreme of requiring you to do this to keep your energy up, but it is a nice texture moment. I would like the sleeping quarters play into the game the same way a bunk bed did in the original Wing Commander – which was as an in-fiction save point, but I’m not going to let you save anywhere in space. But I think when docked / landed the sleeping quarters will be where you 'wake-up' when you load your game to start a new session."

This is all part of Chris Roberts' greater vision for Star Citizen, that it earns the sim part of the space sim title. This is exemplified by the Constellation's cargo bay. Roberts says "the goal is to be able to walk back into your cargo hold while flying and actually see the cargo you’re hauling. There’s a big focus on simulating and showing everything that you would imagine to be inside and functioning on a spaceship in Star Citizen. So if you’re hauling it you should see it in your hold (if you can walk back into your hold), if you activate a system, you should see your pilot avatar lean over and switch it on, and so on."

Church and Roberts thus work together from concept to finished product, with Church beginning with Roberts' description and then figuring out how to make it functional. "It's much like designing a car or any other product," Church tells IGN, "there are the engineering requirements and then there's the feeling you want to convey -- look at a Ferrari and a Lamborghini. Both are high performance Italian sports cars but they have very different looks, different surface form languages. So I will start pretty rough and send a bunch of variations to Chris and he will weed them down and distill out what he wants. Once the shape and configuration are locked in I put on my engineer's hat and work backwards from the functional requirements to the form."

This is exactly how the Constellation came to be. Church writes, "The design brief for the Constellation was that it has a crew of three, is heavily armed and has an 'iconic' shape. That's tough to do! But I think we've succeeded- it has a very aggressive shape in attack/landing mode and can configure itself to a more benign looking cruise mode. At every stage while building it and figuring out the functionality I'm thinking about the Constellation class ship as a potential user: what would I want to fly? What would I want to be seen in? These questions resulted in not only the look of the ship but the layout of the interior and a lot of the functionality like the way the weapons can retract and change the silhouette of the ship."

Though the Constellation may be inspired by the likes of the Millenium Falcon, it has one advantage over such a craft: a deployable fighter. This small craft has no ability to navigate the warp gates that will separate the gigantic sections of Star Citizen's universe, but according to Roberts, "is important to counter act the Constellation’s lower maneuverability compared to a pure dogfighting player ship." The addition of a fighter and all the other considerable armaments of the Constellation doesn't mean it'll be everything, either. "It all comes down to how the player decides to modify and upgrade his ship and what he wants to focus on – dogfighting, trading runs, exploration," writes Roberts, "A lightly armored, but very maneuverable ship piloted by a good pilot would have a chance."

We still have yet to see the array of other ships that are being created, and as a bit of disclosure I've tossed in $125 myself for a freighter, but this first design is encouraging. There's just so much attention to detail, and if Roberts and company manage to pull off the gameplay elements detailed in our first preview, then Star Citizen could set a new standard for immersion when it releases in 2014.

A ton of images are with the article. (http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/11/15/star-citizen-ship-design-and-star-wars-fantasies)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on November 17, 2012, 09:11:27 AM
Funding is currently at $4.2 million with two days to go.

I think that makes them the biggest game crowd-fund ever, if you don't count Ouya - Obsidian's Project Eternity ended just short of $4 million.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Amaron on November 17, 2012, 12:29:16 PM
It just hit slashdot so it might jump up more.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on November 18, 2012, 07:02:16 PM
I went away for a few hours and came back to find that it had jumped up over $5 million. Currently at $5,115,675 from 73,919 backers.

EDIT: As of 6AM, $5,521,375 from 79,461 donors, with another eight hours to go. $5.5 million unlocked the final stretch goal, player-controllable Bengal-class carriers.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 19, 2012, 08:55:32 AM
Star Citizen - Early Spaceport concept art to 3D environment test (http://vimeo.com/53829036)

Star Citizen - Early AI Combat (http://vimeo.com/53745615)


Chris Roberts and Richard Garriot are on the Star Citizen Livestream right now.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/croberts68



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Shaje on November 19, 2012, 11:56:55 AM
It's over. The last number I heard was 6.2 million. I never thought they would raise that much.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on November 19, 2012, 12:22:19 PM
I went back and forth on this one. $30 isn't exactly a huge deal and the constant mmo talk and 'facing real humans' kept turning me off. I've faced other humans, it's not what it's cracked up to be.

If there are solid single player and private server options, I'll jump in when it hits a steam sale. It certainly looks nice, at least until he dumbs down the graphics to make it playable mmo.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 19, 2012, 12:24:49 PM
The Online Universe is 100% optional.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on November 19, 2012, 02:02:00 PM
Quote
Your ships have lifetime insurance policies and for the next year you will have the ability to purchase further tiers or upgrade existing ones at the initial prices. That's not true of everyone else: if you want to back Star Citizen and participate in this amazing community, you still can. but it's going to cost you a little extra as of now, and you aren't going to have as many extras (no lifetime insurance, for example.)
Uh, what the fuck does that mean? Boning retail customers is probably a stupid thing to promise right out of the gate. I'll check back in a couple years. He says too many things I don't like.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 19, 2012, 02:09:00 PM
Quote
Your ships have lifetime insurance policies and for the next year you will have the ability to purchase further tiers or upgrade existing ones at the initial prices. That's not true of everyone else: if you want to back Star Citizen and participate in this amazing community, you still can. but it's going to cost you a little extra as of now, and you aren't going to have as many extras (no lifetime insurance, for example.)
Uh, what the fuck does that mean?

That anyone who has already donated still has a chance to upgrade that donation using the upgrade system they put in place towards the end of the fund drive. That's how I read it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on November 19, 2012, 03:17:31 PM
What is lifetime insurance for ships? That sounds important.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: veredus on November 19, 2012, 06:53:58 PM
From what I read you can insure your ship for if/when it gets blown up to soften the cost of replacing it. Apparently the founder people get that for free. Sounds like a nice founders perk.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on November 19, 2012, 07:32:56 PM
Yes. Yes it does.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 19, 2012, 08:29:34 PM
The initial cost is the same but insurance for retail will expire after a period of time and a new insurance policy would have to be purchased.

Insurance is going to be a tricky mechanic, they will probably have to do what EvE does and have the payout be significantly less than the replacement cost or else people would just blow up their ships on the last day of the policy.  I imagine your ships will be getting blown up fairly often so the insurance not expiring will mostly be moot since your ship will probably be destroyed before the policy lapses, then you'll have to buy both new ship and new insurance - retail and founder alike.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 19, 2012, 09:24:46 PM
six mil, eh. from the kickstarter alone.

well then~!

engaging stupid optimism drive. unshielded.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Amaron on November 20, 2012, 04:03:06 AM
From what I read you can insure your ship for if/when it gets blown up to soften the cost of replacing it. Apparently the founder people get that for free. Sounds like a nice founders perk.

I thought this was about running our own servers?  I don't see how he can promise this if we have private servers.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on November 20, 2012, 06:39:48 AM
There is a single player game.

There is an Official MMO server.

There will be private special rules/invite only/whatever servers.

They aren't going to limit how you play, other than defining the Official Server as having a specific set of rules and trying to encourage the majority of people to hang out in that universe.  We are free to go elsewhere.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on November 20, 2012, 07:04:28 AM
We'll see. Two years is a long time for things to change.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 20, 2012, 07:25:41 AM
The single player game is going to happen before the world. The world is slated for 2013, the Squadron 42 is this coming year. Alphas and betas before that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on November 20, 2012, 08:21:57 AM
For those that missed this the main site is still excepting backers (and still has the time limited stuff available) until Monday due to the site hit-and-miss availability over the last 24 hours of the drive.

I went back and forth on this one. $30 isn't exactly a huge deal

I read somewhere (pretty sure on the official site) that $30 was an early backer price and that retail would actually be $60 (the $30 ran out fairly quickly and the $35 & $40 were identical except for the price and not being [as] limited in quantitiy

The initial cost is the same but insurance for retail will expire after a period of time and a new insurance policy would have to be purchased.

Insurance is going to be a tricky mechanic, they will probably have to do what EvE does and have the payout be significantly less than the replacement cost or else people would just blow up their ships on the last day of the policy.  I imagine your ships will be getting blown up fairly often so the insurance not expiring will mostly be moot since your ship will probably be destroyed before the policy lapses, then you'll have to buy both new ship and new insurance - retail and founder alike.

There's a lot of conflicting information about the lifetime insurance flying around right now (and if it applies to add on ship purchased in the grace week and the next year) apparently there will be a web site update later today clarifying it

I personally struggle with how they will get away without doing something similar to Eve in that the starter ship (the Aurora I believe in this case) always gets replaced.

six mil, eh. from the kickstarter alone.

well then~!

engaging stupid optimism drive. unshielded.

No that was 6mil total, think Kickstarter made about 2mil

The single player game is going to happen before the world. The world is slated for 2013, the Squadron 42 is this coming year. Alphas and betas before that.

I thought the beta [of the single player] was due in a year (2013) with the whole game a year after that (2014)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on November 20, 2012, 09:47:40 AM
Maybe I'm just old school, but I still believe in paying for a game by purchasing the launch version.

I'm happy he got $6mm, but that's going to merely be the price of entry to unlock the full funding he'll need to achieve all his promises. That funding is unlikely to be without rules for which he didn't account.

And I am excited this might be coming. But we've seen shippable games canceled. Heck, we've seen shipped games cancelled and pulled from retail. So I'll just be over here in my rocking chair waiting for my launch copy to arrive.  :geezer:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 20, 2012, 09:50:37 AM
I find it hard to attach any sort of meaning to the 6m figure. Is that much or little?

Halo 3 cost $55m + $200m marketing budget.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 20, 2012, 10:02:18 AM
6 mill is just the crowd funding, last I read, he had secured about 20 million from traditional investors. The 6 mill, + number of gamers was to prove to the investors people wanted this.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Viin on November 20, 2012, 10:55:47 AM
I find it hard to attach any sort of meaning to the 6m figure. Is that much or little?

Halo 3 cost $55m + $200m marketing budget.

And we all know how overpriced marketing is.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 20, 2012, 10:58:00 AM
Why does a niche game need marketing?

This game has 90k people who donated cash money. Its not a game for everyone, intentionally. Word of mouth may be all it needs.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Amaron on November 20, 2012, 01:57:46 PM
Halo 3 cost $55m + $200m marketing budget.

When trying to judge budgets Halo should be your last choice.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: HaemishM on November 20, 2012, 02:09:00 PM
Why does a niche game need marketing?

Because even though it's a niche, that niche still needs to be informed the game is out there, has been released, is still being developed, etc.

In short, if you want to SELL something, you need marketing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on November 20, 2012, 06:07:32 PM
Its not a game for everyone, intentionally. Word of mouth may be all it needs.

Word of mouth is marketing.

Plus I'm sure at the other end there will be a big ad and PR campaign to promote Squadron 47 / Star Citizen to the masses.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Kageru on November 20, 2012, 07:05:58 PM

The comment he made in one of the interviews about how it's possible to take a more iterative approach seems reasonable. Get the game out and then keep adding things. Makes it potentially cheaper than having to have everything in and polished for retail release and keeps people interested in what comes next. Partly what Tanks has been doing with the constant iteration.

Another advantage of being a PC-centric game too, would be much harder / impossible to do the same on consoles.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on November 21, 2012, 08:34:34 PM
Maybe niche games don't need traditional marketing. But they also don't need $26mm budgets.

He wasn't able to secure $20mm from traditional investors on the promise of a word of mouth campaign. At minimum there will be a slew of banner ads on high traffic sites with premium CPMs over a 4-6 week period. I assume no TV support. But either this game needs to be introduced all by itself, or people first need to be reminded who Chris Robers is and then this game is introduced.

This feels like it's in the gray area between Darkfall niche and Daikatana "hey I know that guy from somewhere" quasi niche  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Draegan on November 27, 2012, 08:27:22 AM
Anyone have a referrer number they want me to use?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on November 27, 2012, 09:51:35 AM
Dunno if this is good anymore, but you can try using this link (https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen/?rid=15811).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Draegan on November 27, 2012, 10:18:22 AM
I put it in, but I don't know if it did anything.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 27, 2012, 11:22:48 AM
Quote
blather

Link (http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/insurance-faq-and-update/)

[Mod edit] Posting a press release and a link isn't better than just posting a naked link. You should know better than that by now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on November 27, 2012, 12:32:51 PM
The insurance thing still sounds shabby for non-lifetime folks who won't have a permanent backup ship.

And it would've been nice to know the cutoff was Nov 26 at some point before the 27th.

Ah, well. Plenty of games out there.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 27, 2012, 12:39:18 PM
Big giant count down clocks be dammed?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on November 28, 2012, 08:00:21 AM
I put it in, but I don't know if it did anything.
My count is still zero.  You can try adding Lantyssa at the bottom of your account page.  I'm not sure it actually does anything besides making me feel good.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Draegan on November 28, 2012, 08:26:26 AM
I put it in, but I don't know if it did anything.
My count is still zero.  You can try adding Lantyssa at the bottom of your account page.  I'm not sure it actually does anything besides making me feel good.

Put in the name and clicked Verify and it really didn't do anything that I can see.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on November 28, 2012, 09:12:40 AM
Now I have a recruit count of 2.  You're twice as important as anyone else it seems!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Draegan on November 28, 2012, 09:21:41 AM
Yes I don't have lifetime insurance! Sonsofbitches


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 28, 2012, 03:35:47 PM
From what I read you can insure your ship for if/when it gets blown up to soften the cost of replacing it. Apparently the founder people get that for free. Sounds like a nice founders perk.

(http://gameplay.itc.ua/files/oldblog/2007/05/hellagte.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: veredus on November 28, 2012, 04:51:59 PM
While that's sort of almost funny, not sure what it has to do with what is basically a pre order bonus.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on November 28, 2012, 05:38:57 PM
Having a permanent free backup ship?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on November 28, 2012, 05:51:15 PM
Quite a few pages dedicated to a theoretical bonus about a hypothetical game. How about we worry about it in 5 years when and if this launches :-)

And yes, I am fully aware I was once an ardent defender of some of the things DAoC might consider ripping off from EQ1 back when it was first announced  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Draegan on November 29, 2012, 07:19:14 AM
I assume insurance on those starter ships is equivalent of giving WOW players free griffon rides for life.  Or something.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on November 29, 2012, 09:01:39 AM
You get a free stripped-down Rifter.  Whoopie.  Huge money savings there.  Look out galactic market.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Hoax on November 30, 2012, 09:38:09 AM
You get a free stripped-down Rifter.  Whoopie.  Huge money savings there.  Look out galactic market.

Not even doesn't it just mean your insurance doesn't ever expire but you still only get a crappy insurance payout that is less than the value of the ship?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 30, 2012, 09:42:19 AM
Ship is replaced. Nothing else is, Cargo, mods, Guns...whatever is not bolted down.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Kitsune on December 02, 2012, 01:17:56 AM
Yeah, you pretty much have an infinitely replaceable hull for the ship you got with your prepurchase.  That's it.  Cargo and equipment's up to you to replace if you get it shot out from under you.  And if you paid the $30 you apparently have the crappiest ship in the game, so free hull replacements for that are a bit underwhelming.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on December 03, 2012, 06:26:32 AM
Yeah, you pretty much have an infinitely replaceable hull for the ship you got with your prepurchase.  That's it.  Cargo and equipment's up to you to replace if you get it shot out from under you.  And if you paid the $30 you apparently have the crappiest ship in the game, so free hull replacements for that are a bit underwhelming.

Until you read the recent insurance FAQ and find out what happens if you dont have insurance and cant afford a new hull......

and if you stumped up for a larger hull then the benefit/cost saving becomes even more attractive

(you become someone else's bitch (PC or NPC) until you earn anough to buy a new one)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on December 03, 2012, 07:01:49 AM
I thought the whole, getting subcontracted until you could afford a new ship, thing was rather clever. Depending on how its done.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on December 03, 2012, 09:11:34 AM
When was the last time someone in a space sim went completely broke when they weren't being a complete moron?  So there's an edge case.  Probably an option if you don't want to risk your own ship, too.  I'm not being convinced this is a terrible thing yet.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on December 03, 2012, 11:30:30 AM
It would actually be kind of cool in a way if there was a game mode in which the two game over conditions are

1. death, or
2. debtors prison


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on February 06, 2013, 03:12:30 PM
Now this is quite an exciting update, about the death mechanics in Squadron 42 (the single-player game) and Star Citizen itself (the persisten world space)  :drill: :drill:

http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/death-of-a-spacema/

Here are a couple snippets, but I encourage you to read the entire article, it's VERY interesting and informative. At the end of the article, there is also a brief FAQ.

Quote
In Squadron 42, this is pretty easy to achieve. You need to complete the mission to move forward and you can’t save while in space. You die you just go back to the previous save point, normally before you launched on the mission.

In Star Citizen:
Quote
If you don’t manage to eject in time, or someone blasts your ejected character (which carries a harsh penalty if you do this in “civilized” space), your badly charred and almost dead avatar is recovered and you wake up in a med bay.

This is also true if you are killed in a boarding action and your teammates can’t or don’t recover you. If this happens it is assumed that your dead body was evacuated into space and then recovered.

Every “death” creates wear and tear on your body. Depending on where you were hit and how you died, your character may require a new body part, which can either be cybernetic or organic. Eventually after too many deaths, your character’s body will just give out, and instead of waking up in a med bay, you’ll be attending the funeral of your fallen character from the eyes of the beneficiary you specified when originally creating your character. If your old character has done something noteworthy (akin to an in-game achievement), his headstone might read “Here lies Chris, discover of the Orion 2 jump point, slayer of the Dread Pirate Roberts, and a Citizen of the First Order.”

(http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/wc1-funeral_thumb-e1360096322779-300x115.jpg)



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Draegan on February 07, 2013, 07:48:15 AM
That's interesting.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on February 07, 2013, 07:52:25 AM
I like it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sparky on February 09, 2013, 05:40:21 AM
I'm surprised people aren't bitching about the microtransactions.  You expect them in a F2P game because they have to make their money somehow.  But pay-to-play when people have already paid his development costs feels pretty cheeky to me.  Depends how it's done of course.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on February 09, 2013, 07:54:38 AM
I do not recall an article about microtransactions.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sparky on February 10, 2013, 04:03:33 AM
I do not recall an article about microtransactions.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/10/17/star-citizen-system-requirements-modding-and-potential-microstransactions-detailed/

There's not much info, just "only for stuff you'll be able to acquire through normal play" which really doesn't tell us anything.  I just find the idea a bit disappointing in a P2P game they're making with fan money.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on February 10, 2013, 05:22:35 AM
It's no different than Guild Wars 2, other than the initial fan investment, which is like macro-transactions up-front.

They are releasing the server code though, so you can do whatever you want in your homebrew server.  This is just for their official server where you play with the rest of the world.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sparky on February 10, 2013, 06:41:57 AM
Oh that's good news.  Consider my jimmies unrustled.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on February 11, 2013, 03:11:30 PM
Roberts seems almost child-like in his naivete regarding griefing. Permadeath will be way too juicy a target for griefers. 50 throwaway characters using up some vet roleplayer's last life will create comets made of frozen tears. I will definitely be with the goons on this one, if only to avoid being targeted  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on February 11, 2013, 05:30:34 PM
It's no different than Guild Wars 2, other than the initial fan investment, which is like macro-transactions up-front.

Except that GW2 is out and this game is still under development but promising a lot. We've still got a long while to wait before we can see what the final revenue model turns out to be.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on February 12, 2013, 04:57:35 AM
Roberts seems almost child-like in his naivete regarding griefing. Permadeath will be way too juicy a target for griefers. 50 throwaway characters using up some vet roleplayer's last life will create comets made of frozen tears. I will definitely be with the goons on this one, if only to avoid being targeted  :grin:

I predict Roberts current on plan on death will not make it out of beta


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on February 12, 2013, 06:57:02 AM
Roberts seems almost child-like in his naivete regarding griefing. Permadeath will be way too juicy a target for griefers. 50 throwaway characters using up some vet roleplayer's last life will create comets made of frozen tears. I will definitely be with the goons on this one, if only to avoid being targeted  :grin:

Did you read the whole article, or just the quoted part here?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on February 12, 2013, 09:05:59 AM
Of course I read the whole thing. My comment stands as written. If you can kill or take things permanently from other players, people will do it just for the grins and the rage. What part of it do you think will prevent this from happening?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on February 12, 2013, 09:17:42 AM
Not saying it won't happen. However, as there are no skills tied to an avatar, there is not much to lose.  It was also stated that you can gain back "lives" as well. Its also extremely cool that death itself, like dark souls, is part of the world lore, even if your avatar is lost, accomplishments live on.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on February 12, 2013, 09:22:36 AM
It won't be the material loss. It will be the long time character that someone is inordinately proud of, and which will cause them to rage quit when they get targeted and hunted into extinction.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on February 12, 2013, 09:43:09 AM
I don't really role play anymore in video games, but.

So?

Whats cooler than having an offspring who retains the history of a previous character, including partial ( Faction? ) affiliations and ( Player ) recognition? That's rather dam awesome from a Role-player perspective if you ask me. Sure, it will sting, but, this is a niche game. I think you are putting mass market expectations on it. Its not that dissimulator from eve in many regards.

Where you see Griefing, I see permadeath as being ingrained into a world. Instead of slapped on top like so many other systems. I'm not sure whats wrong with a group hunting down a player. Its part of the game, its part of the lore, its part of its life cycle of the world and history, and its not the end of the world.

The scenario you seem to think will happen, where 50 goons camp one planet and blast some guy every times he leaves the planet is highly unlikely to be possible, and if it is, only in non-secured parts of space anyway. Not when apparently you can get taken to any plant you have a ship on.

And we are not even talking about Mercenary contracts yet.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on February 12, 2013, 11:44:35 AM
I think you're underestimating the ability of Goons to break the system in order to cause havoc if that's their goal.

I plan on playing publicly and on a personal server.  If the former gets too bad, I'll just spend all my time on the latter.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on February 12, 2013, 12:12:03 PM
Considering how the PvP is to work, I don't think it will be an issue anywhere but rim worlds. Again though, I think this is a case of a behavior being embraced in a design, rather then suffering from its attempt to mitigate it. The very first barrier in this is, they would have to be a better pilot than the target, unlike Eve.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on February 12, 2013, 12:24:29 PM
Nope. Just have more friends with less to lose.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ingmar on February 12, 2013, 01:10:39 PM
Whats cooler than having an offspring who retains the history of a previous character, including partial ( Faction? ) affiliations and ( Player ) recognition?

Keeping the original character comes to mind.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Typhon on February 12, 2013, 04:08:13 PM
He can fix all these complaints if he makes your characters age.  Each character has a fixed amount of game time to achieve stuff.  All characters die and will their stuff to the next character you create.  "Lives" are just how many times your character was able to cheat death.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on February 12, 2013, 05:39:28 PM
Whats cooler than having an offspring who retains the history of a previous character, including partial ( Faction? ) affiliations and ( Player ) recognition? That's rather dam awesome from a Role-player perspective if you ask me.

Mechanics kick roleplaying in the ass every time.

If your character 'dies', what's the process for creating a new one? Do you have to go through character selection again? Remake the face / body or just select the exact same one you had previously? If it happens in the middle of a fight, how much extra time will it take you to get back in the game? It sounds a bit like you can 'pre-select' your offspring's body, but that doesn't mean that people will.

Like many things in Star Citizen, it sounds like a good idea, but I think it will be mugged by player reality.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on February 16, 2013, 05:20:26 PM
I'm just gonna go ahead and say that right now I am staring at the dead razor's edge, and I have no idea if this game is going to turn out sucky or cool, and I legitimately think it could go either way at this point.

And man, man do i want it to turn out cool.

please.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on April 12, 2013, 07:41:13 AM

WiP Star Citizen Male Character Range-of-Motion Test - 2013-04-08 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za5lR7yMqaE&feature=youtu.be)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on April 13, 2013, 04:38:17 PM
Wow what a lot of unnecessary polys.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on April 26, 2013, 06:23:32 PM
He's back again, and he wants to empty your wallet some more!!  :drill:

http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/the-aurora-revealed/
----------------------
- Beginner ship, the "Aurora", is throughly detailed with a (21 pages!!) brochure:

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/cdn-rsi/brochures/aurora_brochure.pdf

And also:

Quote
To celebrate the release of the Aurora, we’ve put together a special AURORA SALE WEEK promotion! We’re making a special edition version of the Aurora, the Aurora LX, available for a limited time. The LX will be available in the finished game, but this will be your only chance to pledge for it through the site (existing LTI Auroras may be upgraded through our promotion for $5 or in the finished game using in-game credits!) It features a unique paint scheme, twin lasers, leather seats (visible in-game!) and a four-missile mount with Talon IR 4 Stalker missiles pre-loaded. The standard Aurora includes an empty missile hardpoint and fabric seats… this is the luxury model! Several new packages including the LX will be available through Saturday, May 4th:

Two new stretch goals:

9 million: If we can make it to $9 million in total pledges before the new site launches, we’ll go ahead and put a cool Roberts Space Industries Class II space suit in your closet, colored to match the new site! What’s more, every current pledger will get Lifetime Insurance! This will be your last opportunity to get LTI before the game launches.

10 million: Our big goal before the website is $10 million. That’s a crazy amount of money, but we have a plan for it: $10 million would allow Cloud Imperium to build our own mocap studio rather than hiring out time from someone else. Renting mocap equipment and studio time is expensive: upwards of $35,000 a day, with four hours work for each 30-second segment. Having our own studio would cost more right now but will allow us to produce a lot more content for Star Citizen in the long run! We’ll provide more details very soon, but here’s one thought right now: it would even allow us to mocap a few lucky fans into the finished game!

And a final note from Chris Roberts himself:

Quote
I thought it would be good to explain a little of our thinking in the Aurora promotion that we are running with the Aurora brochure. According to our database we have over 40,000 users that signed up but have yet to back. Some of these may be accounts of people that have pledged but their account is unlinked. Some are secondary accounts of people that have backed through a different account. Some of these will be people that signed up but have since decided that they are not interested in Star Citizen. The last group are people that are interested but aren’t ready to back yet, either because they are not convinced just yet, or are waiting until they can play something. A really interesting statistic is that almost 20,000 of the accounts with Golden Ticket status show as of not having a pledge!

My dream is to make Star Citizen the first AAA game that has been 100% funded by the crowd – besides being a milestone there are many reasons why this a good thing, but the most glaring is that this will ensure that the community and developers are 100% in alignment. Both our priorities is to make the best game possible, no compromises. Star Citizen is going to cost approximately $20M to make. We have this covered already between the incredible funding we’ve received from you and the commitments from investors. But here’s the truth: I’ve been holding off on closing investors because your commitment means we won’t need as much money as we originally expected. Every dollar we make from crowd funding means one less we’ll take from outside investors.

To achieve this we need to bring in new people, as all of you have given more than we could have ever expected you should not be expected to contribute any more to the cause. What better way to get some new members than a sale to entice them to join before the new site and their access rights change? Which is why we decided to create a sale for the unveiling of the Aurora in all its glory. We’re really proud of the work that’s been done on the Aurora – I think you will agree that no other game goes to such detail in designing and realizing a universe. The Aurora is indicative of what we are looking to achieve in terms of detail and immersion in the final game, and while it is the cheapest player ship available it is by no means a “Starter ship”.

As part of this we’ve decided to create a little mini campaign around the new site, complete with some stretch goals, rewards for all backers and a 24 hour live cam setup to celebrate the new site going live at the end of May. For those of you that will want to add the Aurora LX to your collection now we’ve created a couple of options for you to contribute a little more money towards development and get in return add the LX to your fleet. I want to stress that if you did this it would only because you wanted to contribute to the development funding not because you have to. You will be able to earn credits to buy this ship in game once we go live. So please do not feel obligated to do anything. Everyone has given more than enough. This is purely a “for the fun” sale / event to hopefully push our funding along.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on April 26, 2013, 06:42:51 PM
So $10mm is actually more on the trajectory of a AAA game. However, I hope he realizes the budget he really needs has inflated quite a bit since Wing Commander days. Hopefully he's got a good Producer behind him who's been there/done that.

But at least he's talking a more realistic actually-build-it goal than the "$2mm for a new MMO/./11!" ones.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on April 26, 2013, 06:53:27 PM
So $10mm is actually more on the trajectory of a AAA game. However, I hope he realizes the budget he really needs has inflated quite a bit since Wing Commander days. Hopefully he's got a good Producer behind him who's been there/done that.

But at least he's talking a more realistic actually-build-it goal than the "$2mm for a new MMO/./11!" ones.

Yeah, $10M crowdfunding minimum, but in that note he actually states that the game will approx. cost $20M (but from what we're seeing we can safely assume he's being conservative :P)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on April 26, 2013, 07:08:49 PM
Yea. THIS might be one of the KS's I back. He seems pretty sharp, enough to hire the right people or have kept up with all the modern business needs anyway. Most realistic one I've bothered to follow anyway...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on April 28, 2013, 02:48:58 PM
In a recent update (http://robertsspaceindustries.com/the-aurora-revealed/), Chris Roberts declared, "Star Citizen is going to cost approximately $20M to make."

This endears this project to me further, because that's precisely the budget target I've been been saying MMGs should be designed for.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on April 28, 2013, 06:13:03 PM
In a recent update (http://robertsspaceindustries.com/the-aurora-revealed/), Chris Roberts declared, "Star Citizen is going to cost approximately $20M to make."

This endears this project to me further, because that's precisely the budget target I've been been saying MMGs should be designed for.

It was closer to US$15m when the project was announced. Plus it isn't to make one 'game', it's to make a single player title and a MMO.

I'm expecting to see that game budget creep higher over time.

Although I agree that MMOs have to keep their development costs down, especially from current AAA levels.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on April 30, 2013, 07:14:39 AM
He should move to Rhode Island.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 21, 2013, 09:46:27 PM
The 300 Series: The Next Generation is Now  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrQ0qMRZ_1Q&feature=youtu.be)

The PDF sales brochures and Car Commercial like videos are just awesome.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on June 22, 2013, 01:37:22 AM
And they have raised 10 million and counting. Wow.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on June 22, 2013, 01:54:26 PM
money creeps away from you in games like this. I'm hoping he continues to make the game as though the budget is 15m, because that'll end up being 22m realistically


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 23, 2013, 11:59:59 AM
Huh. I'm really starting to get jazzed about the thought of going back to the Wing Commander universe, even if they have to file off the VIN and call it Squadron 42.

Star Citizen... Eh. I love the idea of space trading sim things, but I find the reality of them is pretty drudgey. Haul cargo, shoot dudes, haul cargo shoot dudes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 23, 2013, 01:53:28 PM
Note the font on that logo :)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on June 23, 2013, 03:37:43 PM
Shit, man, note the logo on that logo.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on June 24, 2013, 06:50:11 AM
Purchased my ORIGIN 315p ; I'm ready to fly in style  :awesome_for_real: :drill:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on June 24, 2013, 06:57:35 AM
I pledged 40 but I plan to slowly upgrade my pledge over the months. That 315p looks nifty *jealous* - I am eyeing the Pirate Pack. Tractor Beam? Yes please.

EDIT: Lucas, you are Italian. Doesn't it make you a bit uncomfortable too that Roberts Space Industries' acronym is "RSI"?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on June 24, 2013, 07:54:08 AM
I already spent too much for this damn game, shame on me  :uhrr:

- $ 125 during the original KS campaign (Freelancer package; already got my Star Citizen bronze card and T-Shirt)

- $25 for the Aurora LX (add-on ship)

- $65 for the Origin 315p (add-on ship)

- $20 for the "Squadron 42" hardback bound manual

Fuck me   :uhrr:

EDIT: didn't really think about it in those terms, Falconeer. Besides, my (paternal) grandfather (who I consider the person I loved the most in my entire life) was in the RSI. But we're getting a tad off-topic :D


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on June 24, 2013, 09:41:54 AM
I gave this some money. Fingers crossed.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on June 25, 2013, 04:51:58 AM
I pledged 40 but I plan to slowly upgrade my pledge over the months. That 315p looks nifty *jealous* - I am eyeing the Pirate Pack. Tractor Beam? Yes please.

EDIT: Lucas, you are Italian. Doesn't it make you a bit uncomfortable too that Roberts Space Industries' acronym is "RSI"?

There's some confusion over the pirate pack, some are saying that the extras (pirate skins & tractor beam) were only included if you bought the pack during the closing week of the kickstarter and that you'll only get the base Cutlass now - I dont think there has been any clarification.

I'm not listing what I bought as it scares me, not as much as an RL friend though who is one of the 100 Idris Corvette owners........

-edit-
The new website lists what's included with the Cutlas and it shows that the pirate skin, tractor beam and docking collar are included


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 26, 2013, 07:10:13 AM
Just received my citizen card and T-Shirt!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on June 30, 2013, 04:50:53 AM
With the launch of the new website all the previous time-limited ships are available for sale again until the 6th

They did add another 200 Corvettes (civilian grade and costing $250 more) but they apparently sold out in under 10 mins


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: KallDrexx on June 30, 2013, 06:32:35 AM
People paid $250 for ships for a game that's not going to be out for quite a long time yet?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on June 30, 2013, 06:42:03 AM
People paid $250 for ships for a game that's not going to be out for quite a long time yet?

As someone who spent a lot on Hex, I realize this is somewhat silly for me to say, but the amount some people are spending on this game basically sight unseen is really crazy.  I know a few people well into the thousands already.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 30, 2013, 09:16:30 AM
Star Citizen Galaxy Map WiP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cLeXj4p03k&feature=youtu.be)

Inside Cloud Imperium Games . Making the Hangar . Forrest Stephan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDLEIBheqYU&feature=youtu.be)

300 Series Commercial - Director's Cut (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTBzrUwB6Qo&feature=youtu.be)

300 Series Spacecraft Showroom (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UewXkv9So88&feature=youtu.be)  

Inside Cloud Imperium Games . the Vanduul . Chris Olivia  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABhWNBJgkQY&feature=youtu.be)

Inside Cloud Imperium Games . Player Character . Mark Skelton (http://youtu.be/578zKOcJrzQ)

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/ffauzori9wzqzr/source/MISC_Starfarer_90m_v01_Jumbo.jpg)

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/xe9ixni851lb5r/source/M50_032713_notes.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on June 30, 2013, 09:22:12 AM
It is crazy because it's in a much earlier stage of development than Hex, and because it's a kind of game that is 1000 times easier to fuck up than Hex. That's the thing, really: not that people are spending so much on a game that isn't out yet, but that they are spending so much on a game that has nothing but carefully architectured teaser videos to show, and not even a bit of gameplay. (still, I pledged 40$)

People are gamblling on this, hoping it'll change their lives. It's like buying 500$ 1250$ of lottery tickets because the powerball is 60 million this week, and being excited every day you wait for it. So weird to watch. It's like people are paying to buy hope, that can be comforting.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 30, 2013, 09:24:25 AM
All those videos are in engine. 100% using the game assets. I think you may underappreiciate the amount of communication they are doing with people. I personally have never seen a game so open with its development or this level of constant communication, and that's on the non-subscription tier.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on June 30, 2013, 09:25:29 AM
So?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 30, 2013, 09:27:16 AM
So?

Its not a CGI mockup. Its proof of development, and experience. They ARE game play.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on June 30, 2013, 09:28:52 AM
They ARE game play.

 :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on June 30, 2013, 10:02:51 AM
People paid $250 for ships for a game that's not going to be out for quite a long time yet?

I think you may have misunderstood my last post - The recently available 200 Corvettes were actually $1250, $250 more than the 100 that were made available last year (for a slightly lower spec ship - that may not actually come with an engine!)

Alot of people have paid alot more than $250 on Star Citizen so far.......


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on June 30, 2013, 10:03:20 AM
So?

Its not a CGI mockup. Its proof of development, and experience. They ARE game play.

"In engine" and "game play" are not the same thing. See also - Eve online trailers.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 30, 2013, 10:40:43 AM
Star Citizen - Chris Roberts shows off the RSI Constellation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InLTUDN_NQ4&feature=youtu.be)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: KallDrexx on June 30, 2013, 11:23:24 AM
So?

Its not a CGI mockup. Its proof of development, and experience. They ARE game play.

As others have said, that doesn't make it a gameplay video.  Furthermore, I've seen actual gameplay video of 100s of games out right now, doesn't mean I'd spend more than $60 on them, even the better ones.  The money people are blowing on this game at such an early stage rivals lifetime memberships to MMOs back when subs were cool, and might I add the internet went into a ragestorm because people thought $300 for a lifetime sub was ridiculous.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Nonentity on June 30, 2013, 11:31:45 AM
I'm really angry that because I wasn't at my computer the second the website went up that Non and Nonentity were both taken as handles.

I got angry and now I am forever 'suckit'.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 02, 2013, 01:33:02 PM
Perhaps you guys should pay more attention to the weekly Wingmans hangers, lore releases, AMA's, development videos and other live streams they do to figure out why so many feel inclined to donate. There is possibly more interaction and open development in SC then many other previous games, this garners a large amount of confidence. They have laid almost all thoughts on design in the open and give constant development updates. You get even more info if you have subscribed. They also had a in engine, and in game videos before even asking for money. That's a far cry for many MANY kickstarter or crowed funded games.  In fact they just finished up a 24 hour live stream on the development a few days ago. They didn't just toss out a kickstarter then go dark like so many others.

If you are only looking at the official videos I could see your confusion.

RSI Constellation footage from 24 hour live stream! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76UF2gnLKho&feature=youtu.be)

Also, they just hit 12 million. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link//13124-12-Million) That's one million in a weekend. At 13 million they add Frigates to the game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on July 02, 2013, 02:43:04 PM
I am on board, I paid, and I am loving the promises and the few things I have seen. Question is, "is it fun?" And I think that's a hard answer to extrapolate from those videos. Are they COOOOOL? Yes. Is the game fun enough that it's obviously a great investment to put hundreds (or thousand) of dollars into it _at this point_?

When I talk about gameplay -and I say it's not in the video- I am wondering how much of that stuff is guaranteed to turn out FUN. And the answer is none. And that's the only thing that stops me to put in more money. Don't get me wrong, I am excited and I feel the call for my wallet. I just remember every time that there isn't a single reason to spend those money NOW. I reserved my alpha spot, I contributed to development, so you could say I placed my bet. I just think given the risk vs reward there is no point at all to put in more than 30 - 60$.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on July 02, 2013, 03:58:52 PM
That's the part that baffles me most.

Paying that amount of money for a fake ship, ok, sure maybe I won't do it, but I can see why people would once a game is established with rules that allow you to know how to be all alpha gamer with your e-peen ship.

And maybe I could see paying that much for a ship in a game that doesn't exist yet but for which you get a Fingerprints/MakerBot printed model on a pedestal, especially if you had some design decisions you could make on the textures/colors. In this scenario, even if the game never launches, at least you got something tangible to show off, to talk about that time you were part of a really cool cultural event or something.

But, $300 for a non ship in a non game where nothing but a hands on experience will even tell you whether it's fun, especially for an audience core enough to know who Chris Roberts' is and remember what Wing Commander was and probably having played enough games to rant enough about to long since learn how often high promise takes a nose dive into vapor?

I don't get it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on July 02, 2013, 05:56:36 PM
But, $300 for a non ship in a non game where nothing but a hands on experience will even tell you whether it's fun, especially for an audience core enough to know who Chris Roberts' is and remember what Wing Commander was and probably having played enough games to rant enough about to long since learn how often high promise takes a nose dive into vapor?

I don't get it.

Because gamers have nearly always preferred potential to reality.

Roberts has basically promised everything ever asked for in a space sim. He's then getting his pre-order customers to fund it. I believe that a lot of people will be disappointed with what he actually delivers, but by then they'll have spent more money on Star Citizen than they would have to play a MMO for several years.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on July 05, 2013, 06:39:18 PM
The Star Citizen Economy. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0qXEAqYIH8)

Now this could be interesting (if it will really happen). What do you think?

EDIT: More details. Lots. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/13128-The-Star-Citizen-Economy)




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on July 06, 2013, 02:37:10 AM
I read it last night and it looks damn impressive. It *might* work because, as far as I understand, Star Citizen won't feature a single server like Eve or a traditional multi-server model, focusing instead on small "shards". But will the general economy (prices etc.) link every one of those shards together? And also, will the players shatter the developers' dreams about economy on Day 1 when there will be a massive influx of goods?

Meanwhile, 13M reached:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link//13131-13-Million
Quote
The $13 million goal adds frigates to the roster of player-flyable ships and introduces one very cool new element for gameplay: the Command and Control Center. Found as an optional seat on larger ships, the C&C lets you coordinate the battle between multiple ships: let your friends or NPCs who are flying escort know where to go and what to do.

14M:

 - Hibernation Mode: for the explorers out there, we will add the ability to save and resume while you are out in space. When not in combat, power your ship down, hit the bunk, and exit the game safely until you can resume your journey.
- Professional-quality feature-length “Behind the Scenes of Star Citizen” documentary film.
- A fourth landout option on Earth! Where will it be? London? Berlin?

15M:
- Additional flyable ship class: escort carrier
- The Upgrade Handbook: an extra 42-page manual that walks players through the process of customizing and overclocking their ship systems! (PDF free to all backers before $15 million)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: KallDrexx on July 06, 2013, 06:55:26 AM
Wait what?

What happens if you have to quit while you are in space and they don't hit the $14M mark?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on July 06, 2013, 06:57:56 AM
Wait what?

What happens if you have to quit while you are in space and they don't hit the $14M mark?

You probably resume travel from where you left off next time you log in?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 06, 2013, 06:58:40 AM
( Econ ) Looks good to me, its like Freelancer turned to 11.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on July 06, 2013, 07:21:34 AM
Yeah, that save thing sounds weird. I love how some stuff that is absoilutely a given in any game is some sort of stretch goal here. So eventually if after having raised 25M you will find yourself unable to pilot your ship with keyboard and mouse, they can always say "Sorry, support for additional peripherals beyond joypad and Oculus Rift was the 26M stretch goal. Bummer".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 06, 2013, 07:34:08 AM
You guys may be reading too much into it. That sounds like a single player option, that's an option instead of needing to land somewhere.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: KallDrexx on July 06, 2013, 09:00:20 AM
You guys may be reading too much into it. That sounds like a single player option, that's an option instead of needing to land somewhere.

That's my point though.  I sometimes have to stop playing games at random times.  It sucks that they have to raise $1million more in order for me not to be stressed out over wheither I can quit or spend time looking for a save point.

It's only a non-issue if they have landing spots all around and it's trivial to stop what you are doing and leave, otherwise it's a pain in the ass.  And the know this, which is why they are making it a stretch goal for a game that has made millions more than they planned for.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on July 06, 2013, 02:04:11 PM
I got an email from RSI noting that today was the final day to get the "Aurora LX, ORIGIN 350r, M50, Starfarer, Caterpillar, Gladiator or Retaliator."

Mind you, of that list, only the Aurora exists as more than a name. The rest have no stats and no concept art, just a short description of what it's going to be for someday, in theory. :oh_i_see:

Also, the price tags on those are in order: $25, $100, $80, $175, $225, $150, and $250. SC has already become a rich man's game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on July 06, 2013, 05:30:30 PM
I got an email from RSI noting that today was the final day to get the "Aurora LX, ORIGIN 350r, M50, Starfarer, Caterpillar, Gladiator or Retaliator."

Mind you, of that list, only the Aurora exists as more than a name. The rest have no stats and no concept art, just a short description of what it's going to be for someday, in theory. :oh_i_see:

Also, the price tags on those are in order: $25, $100, $80, $175, $225, $150, and $250. SC has already become a rich man's game.

Indeed.  I know a guy who is pretty big into the game so far and keeps giving me  updates.  He says everything will be available in game via in game methods or whatever, but given the price points, I have to assume these ships are going to take a LONG time to get in game.  I have to say, the whole thing makes me feel a bit alienated from what would otherwise be a project that, at least on paper, looks like everything I'm looking for.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sophismata on July 06, 2013, 07:25:01 PM
I got an email from RSI noting that today was the final day to get the "Aurora LX, ORIGIN 350r, M50, Starfarer, Caterpillar, Gladiator or Retaliator."

Mind you, of that list, only the Aurora exists as more than a name. The rest have no stats and no concept art, just a short description of what it's going to be for someday, in theory. :oh_i_see:

Also, the price tags on those are in order: $25, $100, $80, $175, $225, $150, and $250. SC has already become a rich man's game.

Indeed.  I know a guy who is pretty big into the game so far and keeps giving me  updates.  He says everything will be available in game via in game methods or whatever, but given the price points, I have to assume these ships are going to take a LONG time to get in game.  I have to say, the whole thing makes me feel a bit alienated from what would otherwise be a project that, at least on paper, looks like everything I'm looking for.

The difference between this and HEX is that people spending hundreds of dollars on Star Citizen are crazy. Never mind thousands. HEX is a clone of a fun, highly successful physical TCG and will have a secondary market. There is no prior example of Star Citizen's lofty goals ever being crystallised into a fun game - and actually MANY examples of MMO sandbox worlds that failed hard.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on July 06, 2013, 07:59:34 PM


The difference between this and HEX is that people spending hundreds of dollars on Star Citizen are crazy. Never mind thousands. HEX is a clone of a fun, highly successful physical TCG and will have a secondary market. There is no prior example of Star Citizen's lofty goals ever being crystallised into a fun game - and actually MANY examples of MMO sandbox worlds that failed hard.

Preaching to the choir, I made a similar point a couple of pages ago.  Also, in Hex levels had the huge draw of weekly drafts (for life no less!).  That kind of sustaining value feels easier to drop money on than "Here is another 50 bucks for another virtual space ship" for me.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on July 06, 2013, 09:15:19 PM
I spent just enough to secure a copy of the game along with alpha & beta. I think like 45 Bucks. Although I am legitimately interested, there is no way I'm spending more than that. The game looks like a hard to pull off pipe dream. All I am comfortable spending on pipe dreams is roughly a box cost.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Goreschach on July 07, 2013, 12:12:07 AM
The fallout from this game's inevitable failure is going to be exquisite.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on July 07, 2013, 06:03:16 AM
The difference between this and HEX is that people spending hundreds of dollars on Star Citizen are crazy. Never mind thousands. HEX is a clone of a fun, highly successful physical TCG and will have a secondary market. There is no prior example of Star Citizen's lofty goals ever being crystallised into a fun game - and actually MANY examples of MMO sandbox worlds that failed hard.
There is no difference.  They're both games in production and we can point out many shitty card games.  It's just a matter of whether the concept put forth interests you or not.

We have all the Wing Commanders and two Privateers as pedigree, plus several other space games such as the X series and EVE for concept.  People spending large sums of money on either are crazy, but that's our choice.  Don't do it if you don't have faith in the product.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sophismata on July 07, 2013, 08:24:49 AM
Preaching to the choir, I made a similar point a couple of pages ago.  Also, in Hex levels had the huge draw of weekly drafts (for life no less!).  That kind of sustaining value feels easier to drop money on than "Here is another 50 bucks for another virtual space ship" for me.
I was more trying to springboard off your point than argue against it...

We have all the Wing Commanders and two Privateers as pedigree, plus several other space games such as the X series and EVE for concept.  People spending large sums of money on either are crazy, but that's our choice.  Don't do it if you don't have faith in the product.
Magic the Gathering actually exists, though. It's hugely successful, and a lot of fun. There has never been a successful attempt to make what Star Citizen is trying to be. Wing Commander, X, and Privateer are all single player. Eve is a completely different game.

We're all crazy, but some people are more crazy than others.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 07, 2013, 10:18:23 AM
There has never been a successful attempt to make what Star Citizen is trying to be.
   

    Wing Commander Saga: The Darkest Dawn (2012),
    Brute Force (2003), Microsoft Game Studios
Freelancer (2003), Microsoft Game Studios
    Conquest: Frontier Wars (2001), Ubi Soft Entertainment Software
    Starlancer (2000), Microsoft Corporation    
    Wing Commander IV: The Price of Freedom (1996), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Super Wing Commander (1994), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Wing Commander Armada (1994), Dong Seo Interactive
    Wing Commander III: Heart of the Tiger (1994), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Wing Commander / Wing Commander II (Special CD-ROM Edition) (1994), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Strike Commander (1993), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Strike Commander (CD-ROM Edition) (1993), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Strike Commander: Tactical Operations (1993), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Wing Commander: Privateer (1993), Electronic Arts, Inc., ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander II: Vengeance of the Kilrathi - Special Operations 2 (1992), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander II: Vengeance of the Kilrathi (1991), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander II: Vengeance of the Kilrathi - Special Operations 1 (1991), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander: The Secret Missions 2 - Crusade (1991), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.    
    Wing Commander (1990), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander: The Secret Missions (1990), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.    
    Ultima V: Warriors of Destiny (1988), MicroProse Ltd.    

Not even the full list. This body of work is what I base my expectations on. I could give two shits about a trading card money game. For real. That, to my knowledge, has had one successful title.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on July 07, 2013, 01:05:44 PM
None of those to my knowledge were selling ships for 250 a pop.  This also has a lot more multiplayer to it than those titles, to my knowledge.

If this was a one off purchase for 50 bucks I would probably buy it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 07, 2013, 01:49:14 PM
The prices right now are "crowd funding'. Not Retail. Perhaps that's the problem. AFAIK, the single player will be market price. Not sure what the Online part will cost, ETC..


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on July 07, 2013, 02:16:30 PM
I want to play the game. It's 85% of the dream MMG doc I've been evolving on my hard drive since 2004, I have reasonable confidence it will ship and do >50% of what he wants, and I shelled out for the "Freelancer" bundle that came with a ship plus a bunch of physical goods (soundtrack, art book, USB drive, some other stuff). It wasn't much more than the high-end "Collector's Editions" these days, and it came with things I want a hell of a lot more than a bulky, breakable [dragon/sith/charr/etc.] statue.

I'm willing to pitch in when I have a good idea of the end result and think the cost is justified. $150 for nothing more than "It's a really fast ship" "(or whatever) leaves me cold. I wish that rather than money-for-ships, they'd set up the store as a Kickstart-like money-for-features; "When people pledge X dollars total, we'll have enough to design and implement walking in stations, and we'll bill everyone for it."

I mean, it's nice they're getting a swank audio studio and mocap facility, but I'd MUCH rather know that my money was going towards more and more polished game features.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on July 07, 2013, 02:18:11 PM
The problem is if you are rmt'ing ships now. You most likely will be rmt'ing ships after release.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on July 07, 2013, 07:28:56 PM
I imagine a lot of people paying big money right now are either hardcore wing commander fans or EvE players who know how potentially game breaking lifetime insurance on a large ship could be.  If we knew much more about the game I might buy more ships to add to my pledge account.  Depending on how fuel and PvP and system ownership works I would be interested in buying one of those fuel haulers with lifetime insurance.  They have said that insurance won't replace your ship immediately and that the larger the ship the longer it will take, but we have no actual numbers.  The fact that the lifetime insurance is on the hull, and that they say you will be able to sell that hull on the market, could also make them extremely good sources of in game currency once things are stable.  Everyone will at some point need a decent low end cargo vessel to move their crap around, I could see people buying multiple freelancers now to sell later.

They will be rmt'ing new ships though, the best way for them to make money is to make the old ships obsolete so who knows what the value of the initial lifetime insurance hulls will be.

That said I think they are promising way too much, I can't see them managing to deliver on most of it.  The systems they are talking about are just too complicated and worse yet they all hinge on the most unknown variable, what players themselves do.  They're just not going to be able to test things until it is fully released and they see how the playerbase decides to play the game.  The first year is going to be an absolute nightmare until they get the systems straight.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on July 07, 2013, 08:47:23 PM
I am impressed by the hype. If that game flops we are going to see a spike in the suicide rate among the 20-40 year old male pretend space pilot demographic. :why_so_serious:



Quote
   Wing Commander Saga: The Darkest Dawn (2012),
    Brute Force (2003), Microsoft Game Studios
Freelancer (2003), Microsoft Game Studios
    Conquest: Frontier Wars (2001), Ubi Soft Entertainment Software
    Starlancer (2000), Microsoft Corporation    
    Wing Commander IV: The Price of Freedom (1996), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Super Wing Commander (1994), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Wing Commander Armada (1994), Dong Seo Interactive
    Wing Commander III: Heart of the Tiger (1994), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Wing Commander / Wing Commander II (Special CD-ROM Edition) (1994), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Strike Commander (1993), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Strike Commander (CD-ROM Edition) (1993), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Strike Commander: Tactical Operations (1993), Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Wing Commander: Privateer (1993), Electronic Arts, Inc., ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander II: Vengeance of the Kilrathi - Special Operations 2 (1992), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander II: Vengeance of the Kilrathi (1991), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander II: Vengeance of the Kilrathi - Special Operations 1 (1991), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander: The Secret Missions 2 - Crusade (1991), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.    
    Wing Commander (1990), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.
    Wing Commander: The Secret Missions (1990), ORIGIN Systems, Inc.    
    Ultima V: Warriors of Destiny (1988), MicroProse Ltd.  
 

You missed that Wing Commander tactic spin off. Whatever it was called. Build bases, move your carrier in a turn based 4x game. When it comes to combat the game turns into a Wing Commander fighter game again. That was fun!11

Also, I know Privateer I will always be the original (and great). But Privateer II: The Darkening was seriously awesome. How many other computer games feature William Hurt, Jürgen Prochnow and Christopher Walken?! Oh, and Clive Owen was there too, looking sexy!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Kageru on July 08, 2013, 02:34:30 AM
I am impressed by the hype. If that game flops we are going to see a spike in the suicide rate among the 20-40 year old male pretend space pilot demographic. :why_so_serious:

... since most of them play Eve surely they are used to disappointment by now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Tebonas on July 08, 2013, 04:19:05 AM
There is a multiplayer part? I just wanted another Privateer. Lets see if they can deliver that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on July 15, 2013, 02:52:57 AM
Quote
If that game flops we are going to see a spike in the suicide rate among the 20-40 year old male pretend space pilot demographic.

Please open a crisis hotline for us.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on July 15, 2013, 02:58:51 AM
Why is this even in the PC/Console Gaming forum anyway? Isn't this MMO?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on July 15, 2013, 03:03:40 AM
Why is this even in the PC/Console Gaming forum anyway? Isn't this MMO?

Is it even a game yet?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on July 15, 2013, 03:05:11 AM
The whole forum separation has gotten really weird and that's probably a sign of how games have been evolving in the past few years. World of Tanks is in the MMO section and it really is not one. MechWarrior is the same identical game and is in the PC/Console section instead. And Star Citizen, well, no on really knows exactly how the single player/multiplayer are gonna work, but seems like there will be some persistent centralized servers, but you can run it offline too or on private servers, so hard to place it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on July 15, 2013, 03:09:41 AM
Why is this even in the PC/Console Gaming forum anyway? Isn't this MMO?


The entire project consists of two games:

- "Squadron 42" (plus a "secret ops" style extra set of missions) is the single-player game, directly inspirated by the space sims/shooter of the nineties (Wing Commander, X-wing, Freespace, etc.).

- "Star Citizen" will be the proper multiplayer game set in the same universe (but they won't use the same server model of the traditional MMOs, nor a global server like EVE).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 25, 2013, 03:57:06 PM


Breathing New Life Into PC Games & Space Sims podcast - Chris Roberts - SxSW 2013  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZWaBnpSvUk&feature=youtu.be)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on July 25, 2013, 05:41:20 PM
Can enjoy that purely on the basis of him kicking moviebob square in the nuts at 2:40


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Phred on July 25, 2013, 06:03:07 PM
The whole forum separation has gotten really weird and that's probably a sign of how games have been evolving in the past few years. World of Tanks is in the MMO section and it really is not one. MechWarrior is the same identical game and is in the PC/Console section instead. And Star Citizen, well, no on really knows exactly how the single player/multiplayer are gonna work, but seems like there will be some persistent centralized servers, but you can run it offline too or on private servers, so hard to place it.

Same reason Path of Exile is in the MMO section while Diablo 3 is in Single player.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Kageru on July 25, 2013, 06:06:08 PM
Can enjoy that purely on the basis of him kicking moviebob square in the nuts at 2:40

Agree with that, the guy also seems to have his head on straight, hope he can take the game to successful completion.

The idea of a big open world from which you can seque into and out of single player experiences, with a lot of shared assets, sounds pretty economical and good for retention. Building a world that can be expanded more or less indefinitely is a great plan for a smaller company, especially if they design game content that can be re-used and replicated in the open world section.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on July 25, 2013, 07:39:47 PM
The conversations that Roberts has about gaming are the reason i backed the game with approximately what a box might cost.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on July 28, 2013, 07:08:07 PM
I spent a lot of time going over pretty much everything yet available on this project.

My impression of the whole system is that it is incredibly ambitious in a way which typically leads to scalebacks and oversimplification, but in this case isn't necessarily the case.

At any rate, though, they need to be very scared of the potential problems that their approach can cause. They're saying "We will have a system which will allow you to tweak your ship and go around the cosmos seeking little tweaks and improvements, but there's no equipment 'levels,' and your game choices won't be simple optimization or boating, and there will be a huge number of different weapons that each fulfill a different niche, you don't have to use this you can just be a casual player who can hop in a ship and it works great!


I mean, okay, you can also promise a pony. This is a very difficult thing to balance out without bad outcomes.

Boating and maxing would simply be your largest problems. Since most of your decisionmaking for a frame is a pretty simple to calculate tradeoff of performance (speed, maneuverability, available power) and firepower (probably including tradeoffs involving pure DPS, effective sustainable DPS, ammo limits, effective range, and tracking/projectile speed between all weapon types), you will quickly find without some extensive balancing magic that the best builds are either "boaty" — taking the efficiency of a specific weapon/item and simply multiplying it as much as you can by placing as many of it as you can fit — or otherwise maximizing a specific output like speed or lack of signature or something. It leads to a sterilizing situation. One sort of ship you are 'supposed' to be running. You all know the deal, and I'm sort of repeating the same discussion verbatim.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on August 01, 2013, 01:56:48 PM
$15 million goal reached:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13159-15-Million

Quote
It’s unbelievable: Star Citizen fans have helped us reach the $15 million mark without any special promotion! Ten years ago, big publishers decided space games weren’t profitable… and you are proving them very, very wrong!

The $15 million unlock adds another flyable ship class to the game, the oft-discussed escort carrier. Every backer will also get a free digital 42-page Upgrade Handbook manual with their game which goes through the process of customizing and overclocking ship systems! We’re excited about putting this one together, since it goes right to the heart of what’s going to make Star Citizen unique.

The previously-announced $16 million stretch goals are:

- Arena mode: Arena mode is a simulation within the game, although it is not the simulator itself. Players will have access to an actual training simulator in their hangars, which will be used for the dogfight alpha. The Arena is something bigger. It is a galaxy-wide event, where players come to specific locations, pay their entry fees, and jump into space battles to prove who is the best dogfighter of all. Think of it as a combination of a sports tournament and modern-day gaming contests. Each winner will receive credits for the victory, and the best of the best will meet in higher and higher rounds until a grand champion is crowned.

- A laser pistol for every pledger before this point. Keep your ship safe from boarders with a pistol by your side.
------------

With today’s achievement, we’re happy to unlock the $17 million rewards:

$17 million

- Ship upgrade package for every pledger containing an engine modifier.
- Additional flyable ship class: battlecruiser

Thank you all for your continued support. Tell your friends, Star Citizen is coming!



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on August 01, 2013, 05:23:08 PM
Ambition, ambition, ambition. What would flying a battlecruiser be like? Naval overlay in a bridge? It would be so awesome.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on August 01, 2013, 05:38:31 PM
EVE?

Commanding the Mothership in Homeworld?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on August 01, 2013, 06:39:07 PM
Star Citizen is profitable right now only because the money hasn't been spent on development.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on August 01, 2013, 10:37:58 PM
Star Citizen is profitable right now only because the money hasn't been spent on development.

Don't you fuckin ruin the mood man. Wait a few days before you crush my fantasy with your reality talk.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on August 02, 2013, 06:34:58 AM
I'm torn between deciding which analytic approach I want to pursue for the development timeframe of Star Citizen. Hope, or cynicism? I know I want this game to be even half as cool as Roberts' is primping it out to be, and I already know I will like the structure and concept of the game, since there's a big itch in my life for a game which has the same general structure, world interactivity, and intended concept that Freelancer did, straight down to the planet landing sequences, bars, trade routes, and shit. And even if I anticipate the scale of his project to be brutally ground down by development realities and could bet good cold solid hard cash that this game will be delivered substantially after his intended timeframe, I still think what it might get ground down into ... might be awesome. Maybe. But you know how often this doesn't turn out.

Maybe I should be just like this ridiculous cheerleader for the game just to mix things up a bit. Be the Hype Train.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on August 02, 2013, 08:07:57 AM
Every few years I drop my skepticism to jump on a hype train for a ride. I havent been on a hype train since vanguard. So i am going to ride this one and see how it rides.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on August 02, 2013, 02:05:18 PM
I think I'll start by replaying freelancer


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: K9 on August 02, 2013, 03:16:04 PM
I havent been on a hype train since vanguard.

 :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 02, 2013, 03:23:13 PM
I think I'll start by replaying freelancer


I did that recently, with the Discovery mod. I recommend.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on August 02, 2013, 04:51:11 PM
I think I'll start by replaying freelancer


I did that recently, with the Discovery mod. I recommend.

I'm really seriously trying to get Discovery to work so I can do multiplayer stuff. My legitimate copy of Freelancer doesn't even install correctly anymore, and torrented copies of Freelancer have never worked right with the newest versions.

Hrmf.

Until someone can help me work that pile of nuttery out, I am playing the singleplayer. But, as I've noted once long ago, Freelancer is a game that only begins when it ends, and you're set free to explore.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 16, 2013, 06:26:53 PM
Wingman's Hangar ep034 . August 16, 2013 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=astDHngLzyk&feature=youtu.be)

Great stuff in the "Forum feedback with Chris Roberts" part.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 20, 2013, 10:12:33 AM
Star Citizen Interview w/ Chris Roberts: Hangar Module Preview, Dog-Fighting Updates  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCmArFCKHUA&feature=youtu.be)


Hanger Mod in 4 days.  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on August 20, 2013, 02:12:45 PM
Yep, and expect severe stress on the download server(s), with the usual drama unfolding on the forums; nothing new, really  :grin: . From what I gathered, first we'll have to download the launcher/patcher (which will also be used for future patching and the dogfighting alpha), then the whole hangar client.

Can't wait to check out my Freelancer, Origin 315p, Aurora LX and Origin M50 (will I get the business or deluxe hangar, by the way?)  :drill:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on August 20, 2013, 03:20:41 PM
I explained to my dad today "no, see, that's the thing, they're paying money for the promise of a digital spaceship that you can fly around in a game."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 22, 2013, 01:10:46 PM
Quote
In other Star Citizen news, Roberts recently told Eurogamer that he no longer needs traditional investor money to make the game. "I'm actually not taking money from investors now. The budget for what we're delivering is about $20 million, and we're almost there [via crowdfunding] -- we'll probably be there before the end of the year," he said. Don't forget to click past the cut to view the video!

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/08/22/gamescom-2013-roberts-demos-star-citizens-hangar-module/

Also, Hanger is today Saturday I think, there is also a video in the above article.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on August 22, 2013, 02:23:42 PM
If you ever wanted to gaze deeply into Chris Roberts' eyes...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on August 23, 2013, 03:41:33 PM
Tomorrow (Saturday)  the Hangar Module will be officialy unveiled at Gamescom (it will stream live on the official game website from 2 to 3pm CST, 9 to 10pm CET). Release to backers will happen on August 29th. You can find all the details (plus a FAQ at the end of the article) at this link:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13214-Letter-From-The-Chairman-The-Hangar-Module

Quote
The first release of the Hangar Module is coming! We will be making the very first revision of the Hangar online exclusively for backers the week following its unveiling at Gamescom at our event on the 24th of August. The presentation will stream live on RSI from 2 to 3 PM CST. The module itself will be available for download for all backers starting August 29.


I’d like to take a moment to discuss exactly what you’re getting. First and foremost, the Hangar Module you will load next week is by no means a finished product. It is the earliest build of anything I have ever shared with the public. In fact, it’s at an even earlier stage than I would feel comfortable giving to any publisher I’ve worked with in the past and long before I would be sharing builds with QA in a traditional game development schedule! But Star Citizen is all about trying new approaches in game development.


The Hangar Module was not something we promised during the initial crowdfunding campaign. We had originally promised to share how the game was made with regular updates on our website and give early backers access the full game’s Alpha and Beta builds. But once we started development we came upon the idea of taking the constant public iteration that you get with a “live” online game and applying it during the game’s development to allow us to engage and involve the Star Citizen community of backers in the process of the making of the game. The Hangar Module seemed like a natural choice for our first public facing deliverable. While it may not be as glamorous as the Dogfighting Module which we aim to deliver by the end of this year, it requires a whole bunch of content and functionality that the final game will use, from the ships and their data structures, to communicating with your account to installing and patching the client. The Hangar Module will be the base foundation that everything is added as we release additional modules, eventually cumulating in the full persistent world alpha / beta.


Revision 1 of the Hangar will be very simple. You will be able to walk around, enter the initial pledge ships and explore a ground level in CryEngine that shows the kind of detail we are putting into the full game. It is intended as a very basic example of our direction that we are putting out to reward our backers, something to give you a chance to view “your” ship for the first time. Be warned, we have only just begun the QA process. This is the first stable build, not a slick “open beta” or anything designed as a promotional tool. We’re letting you in on the ground floor because we want to open up the process. Expect to encounter crashes, rendering bugs and other issues. Your feedback will help improve Star Citizen.


We need your help to test the hangar, just like you will be testing the game itself. After release, we will open a special forum for reporting and tracking hangar bugs. Your reports will go directly to the team, who will act on the bugs. Please don’t report them to the support e-mail, as our CS staff won’t be able to walk through hangar issues just yet!

In the coming months, we plan to release additional “major” Revisions of the Hangar, where we add more functionality and content. Things like detailed customization of your personal hangar, persistence of the state of all your items (what is equipped and where), in client item purchasing and the ability to invite your friends to your hangar will be part of later revisions of the Hangar Module.

Just because we’ve launched a module to the community doesn’t mean that it’s completely done. It just means its ready for the community’s feedback and stress testing! Our plan is to update each module (Hangar, Dogfighting, Planet, Ship-boarding) multiple times as new features and content are completed before the full integration into the persistent universe.

Over the coming months additional ships and upgrades will become available (as they are completed) and we will continue to enhance the level of interactivity. The goal is for the Hangar to go from a very simple pre-alpha build to a full featured module before your eyes! It’s something no one has done with an AAA game before. It’s a little daunting, but it’s also another new way to share the development process with our backers.The first release of the Hangar Module is coming! We will be making the very first revision of the Hangar online exclusively for backers the week following its unveiling at Gamescom at our event on the 24th of August. The presentation will stream live on RSI from 2 to 3 PM CST. The module itself will be available for download for all backers starting August 29.


I’d like to take a moment to discuss exactly what you’re getting. First and foremost, the Hangar Module you will load next week is by no means a finished product. It is the earliest build of anything I have ever shared with the public. In fact, it’s at an even earlier stage than I would feel comfortable giving to any publisher I’ve worked with in the past and long before I would be sharing builds with QA in a traditional game development schedule! But Star Citizen is all about trying new approaches in game development.


The Hangar Module was not something we promised during the initial crowdfunding campaign. We had originally promised to share how the game was made with regular updates on our website and give early backers access the full game’s Alpha and Beta builds. But once we started development we came upon the idea of taking the constant public iteration that you get with a “live” online game and applying it during the game’s development to allow us to engage and involve the Star Citizen community of backers in the process of the making of the game. The Hangar Module seemed like a natural choice for our first public facing deliverable. While it may not be as glamorous as the Dogfighting Module which we aim to deliver by the end of this year, it requires a whole bunch of content and functionality that the final game will use, from the ships and their data structures, to communicating with your account to installing and patching the client. The Hangar Module will be the base foundation that everything is added as we release additional modules, eventually cumulating in the full persistent world alpha / beta.


Revision 1 of the Hangar will be very simple. You will be able to walk around, enter the initial pledge ships and explore a ground level in CryEngine that shows the kind of detail we are putting into the full game. It is intended as a very basic example of our direction that we are putting out to reward our backers, something to give you a chance to view “your” ship for the first time. Be warned, we have only just begun the QA process. This is the first stable build, not a slick “open beta” or anything designed as a promotional tool. We’re letting you in on the ground floor because we want to open up the process. Expect to encounter crashes, rendering bugs and other issues. Your feedback will help improve Star Citizen.


We need your help to test the hangar, just like you will be testing the game itself. After release, we will open a special forum for reporting and tracking hangar bugs. Your reports will go directly to the team, who will act on the bugs. Please don’t report them to the support e-mail, as our CS staff won’t be able to walk through hangar issues just yet!

In the coming months, we plan to release additional “major” Revisions of the Hangar, where we add more functionality and content. Things like detailed customization of your personal hangar, persistence of the state of all your items (what is equipped and where), in client item purchasing and the ability to invite your friends to your hangar will be part of later revisions of the Hangar Module.

Just because we’ve launched a module to the community doesn’t mean that it’s completely done. It just means its ready for the community’s feedback and stress testing! Our plan is to update each module (Hangar, Dogfighting, Planet, Ship-boarding) multiple times as new features and content are completed before the full integration into the persistent universe.

Over the coming months additional ships and upgrades will become available (as they are completed) and we will continue to enhance the level of interactivity. The goal is for the Hangar to go from a very simple pre-alpha build to a full featured module before your eyes! It’s something no one has done with an AAA game before. It’s a little daunting, but it’s also another new way to share the development process with our backers.

Can't wait to post some screenshots and maybe a video(there is no NDA, of course :P) :)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 23, 2013, 09:34:14 PM
I Find this method of development, "public iterations" quite cool. I hope it will make for a very solid product as they go along.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on August 24, 2013, 12:47:36 AM
So...you walk around some static geometry in CryEngine?

(Or "geo" as we industry douches like to call it.)



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on August 24, 2013, 04:58:08 AM
Maybe it's to appeal to the Eve pilots.  Many an hour were spent locked in hangar bays unable to exit due to enemies and such.  You had better be able to spin your ship around and around.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on August 24, 2013, 03:06:49 PM
http://www.twitch.tv/roberts_space_ind_ch_1/c/2809927

Skip to 22 minutes for the "gameplay" demo.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on August 24, 2013, 03:14:10 PM
Quite the sycophant crowd there.  Wooooohhh fucking LADDERS!!!  Crash.  Applause.

Edit: That was embarrassing.  All the vocal members of that audience should be shot dead.  WHOOOOOOOOOOOAH some minor thing APPLAUSE!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on August 24, 2013, 03:32:08 PM
The fuck kind of sorcery are they working where an acknowledged super-rudimentary super-this-is-a-level-beyond-early-alpha tech demo gets that kind of crowd response


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on August 25, 2013, 04:42:50 PM
They have been sold a digital dash of hope that they will finally get their updated deep space game without some big publisher shitting all over it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on August 25, 2013, 07:04:52 PM
Also I think it was a bar or something. I guess I could be all over getting sauced and WOOOO'ing at a digital demo of Freelancrysis' pimpin garage.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on August 28, 2013, 03:54:24 PM
Hangar release imminent! (yeah, well, still planned for tomorrow, August 29th, anyway) :

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13232-Hangar-Release-Imminent



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 29, 2013, 10:22:06 AM
Yep, Hanger releace day. I'm all:

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md97l8II4h1riv8lvo1_500.gif)

While Roberts is all:

(http://i.imgur.com/Q1FmUF1.jpg)

However, anyone paying attention should know, this system is going to fail, they hope it does. Better now than later. Part of the entire exercise is to test the data servers and the patcher system ETC.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on August 29, 2013, 01:45:41 PM
My wardrobe is ready!!

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQDKZFlN2XPUuU-cRePgWbfGe_piwlygz4jZvVUmQW3ueWOyeqnIw)

 :why_so_serious:

But seriously, I wish I was ready: unfortunately I'll be able to check out my invaluable virtual properties only next monday :( (unless I purchase a decent computer for my GF, tomorrow :P)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 29, 2013, 02:16:13 PM
I Expect delays, so your golden.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on August 29, 2013, 04:17:35 PM
....Aaaand it's out!

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13233-Hangar-Module-Released


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on August 29, 2013, 09:46:00 PM
And?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on August 29, 2013, 10:21:24 PM
And so far, it's a long wait followed by "ACCOUNT LOGIN TIMED OUT."

Like any MMO launch, really.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on August 30, 2013, 02:16:04 AM
I was unable to spin my ship like in Eve, I honestly miss that.

Other than that not much to say, as advertised it's just a big room with a ship in it that you can walk around.  Controls had some serious latency, you press jump or move and it takes a good half second before anything happens.  Patcher was nice looking.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 30, 2013, 05:34:47 AM
Download and install was painless for me.

EDIT: Yep. They check a second time it seems after log in to get the data I guess. I'm getting the "ACCOUNT LOGIN TIMED OUT." while trying to load too.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 30, 2013, 08:09:04 AM
Finally got in. This is so cool. This has to be some of the most fully realized and engineered ships I have ever seen in a video game. I just want to open my cargo door on my freelancer all day long.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Xuri on August 30, 2013, 12:39:25 PM
Managed to get into the hangar as well, earlier today, and I not-really-but-almost clapped my hands and went "gleeeeeeeee" as I ran around the place and looked at my ship from all angles. Apparently the hangar itself scales to fit all your ships, though I have only one - the Freelancer. Curiously, said Freelancer had two functional seats (with controls) in the cockpit. Hmm!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 30, 2013, 01:53:17 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/bhPExqT.jpg)

Quote
Found @ the labeling of a 325a


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on August 30, 2013, 03:45:06 PM
They spelled "personnel" wrong.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 30, 2013, 09:12:39 PM
Quote
Greetings Citizens,
I hope you are all enjoying the early release of the Hangar Module. Now that the build has rolled out to many fans, we’re going to add a new layer to keep the experience interesting! Today we’re unlocking additional items in the RSI store that you can use in your Hangar. Two types of items will be available: decorative hangar items like posters and trophies as well as ship upgrade parts like laser cannons and tractor beams.

You may have noticed that the RSI website now includes a ‘credit ledger’ which shows your United Earth Credit (UEC, or “Imperials”) balance. When you download the Hangar Module for the first time you are awarded 5,000 UEC to play around with in this new system. Many of our early backers also have credits they earned during the first days of the pledge campaign. Credits included in pledge packages are not yet represented here because you will need some credits in order to start the game itself; we don’t want players bankrupting themselves and locking themselves out of space travel! You can use these credits to buy ship parts and hangar items which you can then interact with in your hangar.

The key is that this all ties directly in to the finished game. The items you see for sale through the website are the ones that will be available galaxy-wide in a number of stores. Here you access it through an online store, Voyager Direct, which is a futuristic equivalent of Amazon.com. You may well need to travel across the galaxy to find an especially rare or advanced laser… but you will always be able to purchase a reliable Behring M3A from a local arms dealer. To prevent players from stockpiling credits and damaging their game experience, we are imposing a strict 25,000 UEC-per-day limit and an upper bound cap of 150,000 UEC on your ledger at any time. Similarly, you cannot melt these items as you would a game package: once you have purchased them they are considered ‘played with.’ When the game launches you will be able to sell them to NPCs or trade them to other players… and until then, they’re yours!

There are several limitations you should be aware of right now. At this time, decorating your Hangar is not persistent. If you move a laser to a particular ship and then quit the game it will go back into your storage area. Additionally, only one of every decoration will appear at the moment. While you can have multiple lamps in your web inventory, only one can appear in each hangar at this time. Both of these things will change as the Hangar Module expands. Ultimately, the web store will go away and be replaced with an in-game interface starting with the first release of the Planetside Module.

As previously stated, additional Imperials will be available for purchase within the limitations discussed above. Please keep in mind that you are not under any obligation to purchase Imperials at this time. We are giving you the option right now because there isn’t a way to earn credits in the game (as we’re still building it!) and this is a great way to let you support the development of the game as well as play with other game elements we’ve already created. But be warned, purchasing a stock of extra lasers through the catalog right now will not provide any great advantage when Star Citizen launches; there will be a lot more to discover in the living universe and some of the best weapons or upgrades will have to be earned through gameplay or sought out by traveling to the appropriate planet to buy them. Ultimately all items in the store today and in game will be purchasable via UEC earned in game. Outside of the initial ship package everything will be purchasable through UEC in the final game. There is no pay to win here!

The UEC Store is a great way to let players start interacting with the game world while continuing to support Star Citizen’s development. As more features of the Hangar Module are rolled out, we will offer further ship parts and decorative (and interactive) items for your hangar. This will be one of the ways we demonstrate our dedication to keeping the Star Citizen setting fresh: just like the game will have a responsive live team, the Hangar Module will feature a continually expanding amount of content!

Please enjoy your new found freedom to experiment with items in your Hangar! This is your first taste of how ship upgrades and other personalization elements will work in Star Citizen…


Quote
   

Many Citizens have experienced delays and other issues downloading the Hangar Module and patches. We are aware of the issues and are working to resolve them as quickly as possible. Wondering what happened? Here’s the explanation from our cloud hosting service:

    It used more outbound bandwidth from the storage server than we’ve ever seen by an order of magnitude for the 30 minutes or so following your release.

We are establishing a “origin shield” (not related to Origin Systems or EA’s hosting service) to improve load balancing and make the hangar download speeds more reasonable. All part of the testing process!

FAQ here. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13234-Letter-From-The-Chairman-Hangar-Store-Launched)

Basically the buggy is 20$. This has caused a new meme:

First Patch notes:

Quote
   

    KNOWN ISSUES:
        BUG: A wall and ladder do not render in discount hangar
        BUG: After first initial launcher patch when patcher auto restarts the sound effects may not play, toggling the mute button and restarting the launcher usually sloves the problem.
        BUG: The installer on some systems doesn’t install DirectX properly. Usually re-installing DirectX manually solves this problem. Still requires DirectX 11 and DirectX 11 compatible graphics cards
    LAUNCHER:
        NEW FEATURE: Added support for patch notes, which are also available on the website
        NEW FEATURE: Hourly patch checking, as long as the launcher is running it will check for new patches every 60mins
        BUG FIX: Closing the game client now restores the launcher music if mute is off
        BUG FIX: Launcher audio fader code works better
        BUG FIX: Now saving the state of the mute button
        TWEAK: Launcher now as a max download limit of 4MB/s to help steady traffic during heavy loads.
        TWEAK: “Webget Request Failed” message is now more descriptive
    HANGAR:
        GENERAL:
            NEW FEATURE: Ladder now forces 3rd person on use.
            BUG FIX: Interior ship lighting fixes
            BUG FIX: Adding missing foot IK helpers
            BUG FIX: Added collision detection to vehicle orbit camera
            BUG FIX: Blendspace animation fixes on door exit
            BUG FIX: Fixed 350r power plant
            TWEAK: Adjusted the fog and fog color
            TWEAK: Specular of the metal on the constellation
        HOLOTABLE:
            NEW FEATURE: Sounds for holotable
            NEW FEATURE: Added holotable to all hangars
            BUG FIX: Lots of holotable fixes
    NETWORKING:
        Added 32 more authentication servers to better handle game client authentication load
    DATA:
        112TB of patch data transferred
        59,370 download requests for the installer
        Peak transfer rate for downloads/patching: 35.31 GBps
        39,232 users have agreed to the EULA
        2,085,000 UEC have been given out to users as part of the hangar V1 reward program. (users get 5,000 UEC by downloading)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on August 30, 2013, 11:58:42 PM
In the words of Khan, "I find myself growing fatigued" of the endless sell-ups.

"Hey, you like that gameplay-free hangar module? Spend money to enjoy more non-gameplay!"

I know it's not quite that bad, but this is getting rather shameless (said the guy who backed the crowd-funding drive on the first day).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on August 30, 2013, 11:59:45 PM
This finally seems to be a game that gives a reason excuse to buy new PC parts. :heart:

A screenshot posted by someone. Spoiled due to size:


Please note the VRAM usage, almost 4 GB  :ye_gods:
(http://i.imgur.com/O68S4BW.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 31, 2013, 08:15:10 AM
I'm not sure I would use the current state as any sort of bench mark. Most likely optimization was not on the list for this.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on August 31, 2013, 08:44:45 AM
Oh, sure there will be plenty of opmitiztion. But considering it was just a hangar view the specs are more likley to go up rather than down.

Roberts himself somewhat bragged about the hardware requirements at an interview to PC Games at Gamescom in Köln. (link (http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Star-Citizen-PC-256428/Specials/Star-Citzen-Systemanforderungen-1085005), german):

  • 8 GB RAM minimum to play
  • asked if more than 8GB will be beneficial "can't say yet but, but it is likely"
  • 64-bit OS mandatory
  • quad-core PC needed
  • current generation graphic cards like GTX 770 "probably only good for medium settings".

That's quite steep. Not that I disapprove, the phrase PC Gaming Master Race needs to be filled with meaning again.  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 31, 2013, 08:48:03 AM
I guess what I mean is, there are many things they can do to improve performance in the same scene. 1:1. This is likely as raw as it gets right now.  I personally could not tell what changed between Low and Very high when I was playing with settings. The only things I noticed was it ran smoother on low, and the shadows seems to be handled slightly differently. Most other items looked just the same. Some sort of voodoo!

Anywho,

RE The shop and prices:

Quote from: wcloaf
Hey guys - long story short, we hear you. The VD store ended up coming across pretty much exactly the opposite way we wanted.  We're working out a plan right now to make this right and I will have more for you as soon as possible.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on August 31, 2013, 08:56:47 AM
Transparent cash grab grabs for cash.

Video game pricing right now is just all kinds of fucked up. You can buy a bundle of games for a dollar, get a free game and get nickle and dimed with micro-transaction, pay $60 for a AAA game, pay $60 for the alpha version of an indie game that will cost $15 on release. In terms of value per dollar it's all over the map.

It's interesting that people looking to support developers are often the ones getting ridiculously gauged.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 31, 2013, 09:15:19 AM
Well, none of that stuff is required. A fool and his money come to mind.

A few things to keep in mind.

This game is:

60$ at launch, no subscription. That grants you a single player campaign, a multiplayer game, you can host your own private server, its fully mod-able ( Including multiplayer ), and the only place any of that will be restricted is in the official persistent server, that is free to play on.

 Is 20$ too much for a buggy? Yes. But we are still in funding territory here. None of it is required for anything above at all, and everything can be bought in game though play ( The guns are said to be stock ones you will find at every dealer everywhere ). Should they have released a shop like this this soon? I don't feel its worth the backlash and perceptions at this point, clearly a bunch of good will was cashed in by launching it. It also looks like they are aware of this. IMO, if they do anything, they should remove the shop and refund everyone, and just let everyone play with everything.

We shall see.

I was unable to spin my ship like in Eve, I honestly miss that.

Did you play with the small console near your ship? You can spin for days. I will say, while the interface for that looks fancy, its kinda hard or clumsy to use. I hope it is improved. Less style, more function.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on August 31, 2013, 09:41:48 AM
They launched the shop before they launched the game. Like...2 years before.

As far as not having to buy anything, I'm sure the final game will be set up so that realistically you have to buy things to have a good experience.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on August 31, 2013, 02:10:25 PM
So, let me get this straight. People are excited about walking around a spaceship.

Is there really no ACTUAL GAME you all could be playing?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on August 31, 2013, 02:17:24 PM
So, let me get this straight. People are excited about walking around a spaceship.

Is there really no ACTUAL GAME you all could be playing?

They paid good money for the privilege, of course they're excited.  :why_so_serious:

Also, 20 bucks for a golf cart is hilarious.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on August 31, 2013, 03:12:51 PM
I was unable to spin my ship like in Eve, I honestly miss that.

Did you play with the small console near your ship? You can spin for days. I will say, while the interface for that looks fancy, its kinda hard or clumsy to use. I hope it is improved. Less style, more function.
I tried to use it, it popped up a hologram type thing with a menu but I couldn't interact with it beyond closing it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on August 31, 2013, 03:56:39 PM
So, let me get this straight. People are excited about walking around a spaceship.

Is there really no ACTUAL GAME you all could be playing?

They paid good money for the privilege, of course they're excited.  :why_so_serious:

Also, 20 bucks for a golf cart is hilarious.
People paid money for this shit?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on August 31, 2013, 04:55:50 PM
So, let me get this straight. People are excited about walking around a spaceship.

Is there really no ACTUAL GAME you all could be playing?

They paid good money for the privilege, of course they're excited.  :why_so_serious:

Also, 20 bucks for a golf cart is hilarious.
People paid money for this shit?

As I understand it, you only get access to the walking around the space station thing if you have paid money for the ships.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on August 31, 2013, 05:01:53 PM
sigh


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on August 31, 2013, 07:46:04 PM
I don't see you in any position to complain. Aren't you the one that is really exciting about an upcoming card game. With magic elves and wizards and stuff. Isn't that for kids?  :oh_i_see: :grin:

Edit: I am mocking and agree with your point. Wonder if Roberts is not worried about burning his goodwill with this. The game will have a really hard time living up to the dream version of its people are playing in their heads. (not talking about people on this forum).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on August 31, 2013, 07:57:49 PM
If the cultural and financial divide between the two projects were any smaller, I might agree. I'm also self-aware enough to know when I'm being completely hypocritical.

This is not hypocrisy.

Paying for this shit is straight stupid.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on August 31, 2013, 09:30:49 PM
I have an ironclad rule where I never ever purchase a game before release for any reason. I am probably going to throw some money at this project, though, because it's the one thing I want to succeed enough that I'll provide to the cause.

Thing is, though, is that I don't want to buy a ship, nor the hype goodies. I want to start the game from rock bottom, ground zero, in the straight up schlub ship. Like starting in the Shuttle in EV Nova, getting to eagerly anticipate the initially fast-paced diversification in ship options. I want to support a project, not buy myself up as a Space Romney.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on August 31, 2013, 09:40:31 PM
The Mega Man project is way more interesting than this stupid shit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on September 01, 2013, 03:11:41 AM
One funny aspect is that half of those entitled reging asshats who are now trying as hard as they can to have people fired at PGI by badmouthng the game before launch because some mechanics haven't been changed the way they wanted or some featires haven''t been completed fast enough are now all excited about Star Citizen and can't stop posting in the MechWarrior Online official boards about how good is Chris Roberts cause he really listens to the community and what a fantastic game Star Citizen is gonna be. Oh boy...

The sooner you ask people for money, the harder they will start growing a furious and violent sense of entitlement. But then again, at 15M earned, who cares about internet threats?
I am really, really curious to see how long the honeymoon phase will last here.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on September 01, 2013, 04:22:05 AM


Eh, PGI's situation is one where it is in a pile of deep shit that it has earned for itself, and I can really see why the community has no faith in the developers anymore.

I do like the idea that burned MWO players are latching onto Star Citizen like a rebound relationship they can rub in the face of PGI (Chris is better to me than YOU ever were!), but the general total of their jilted rage is ... valid.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on September 01, 2013, 04:22:47 AM
Oh, sure there will be plenty of opmitiztion. But considering it was just a hangar view the specs are more likley to go up rather than down.

Roberts himself somewhat bragged about the hardware requirements at an interview to PC Games at Gamescom in Köln. (link (http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Star-Citizen-PC-256428/Specials/Star-Citzen-Systemanforderungen-1085005), german):

  • 8 GB RAM minimum to play
  • asked if more than 8GB will be beneficial "can't say yet but, but it is likely"
  • 64-bit OS mandatory
  • quad-core PC needed
  • current generation graphic cards like GTX 770 "probably only good for medium settings".

That's quite steep. Not that I disapprove, the phrase PC Gaming Master Race needs to be filled with meaning again.  :grin:

What I want to know is how they make a space sim require such power. Do they model the physics of entire solar systems and let you nudge planets off their orbits?



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on September 01, 2013, 05:25:54 AM
What I want to know is how they make a space sim require such power. Do they model the physics of entire solar systems and let you nudge planets off their orbits?

CryEngine 3 (Crysis 2, 3) bumped up to the max running space battles with dozens of participants?

A very good question actually. I'll do some digging and report back.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 01, 2013, 06:59:58 AM
Quote
As some of you may have noticed we launched the very beginning of our IN-GAME store with Voyager Direct yesterday.

It had a soft launch (we deliberately kept it back from the weekly email) so we could roll it to get feedback and see how to integrate what is a tricky thing into Star Citizen at such an early stage of development.

Even with a soft launch quite a lot of people started using the store (no surprise the Buggy is the top seller!)

Unfortunately there seems to be some misunderstanding in our intentions with the prototype in-game store, as the forums erupted with a significant amount of “discussion” last night!

I have read all of the criticism and there have been many great points. One of the great things about Star Citizen’s development is that we can get feedback like this… and use it to figure out how to make things better.

The intention of creating Voyager Direct right now was the very opposite of what a lot of people are upset about. It is not supposed to be a cash shop! It’s meant to be the very opposite!

I felt that it was important that we should make clear what are in-game items, earnable via game play. This was the whole reason of segregating these new items into the Voyager Direct store rather than the pledge store. We intend for players to be earning UEC in a limited fashion as early as the dogfighting module (say for fighting so many test battles, or winning a team battle competition) and felt Voyager Direct would be the first step in getting the basic systems in place. Ultimately you will be purchasing all these game items inside the game from in-game vendors on various planets but this won’t come online until the Planetside module. Since the web team at Turbulent had already built a store interface and the team here was already creating items to outfit the hangar and ships, it seemed like an easy option to create Voyager Direct now to allow all of you to play with and check out some of the game items as they are created rather than waiting for Planetside module to see them in engine. The concept was that people that wanted to show their support and contribute towards the development cost of the game could buy some items to play with in their hangar but by establishing the prices in game terms it would also make it clear that these items are all earnable in game. I should also point out that Voyager Direct is intended only to sell cosmetic items or basic ship items that would be available on pretty much any planet – the better items will always have to be bought by actually flying to the appropriate planet or earning the via gameplay. There is no need to buy anything from Voyager Direct – it is all OPTIONAL and should be viewed the same way that you view paying for a subscription or buying a skin. All of this will be earnable in the game, without too much time invested.

I’m very opposed to having a game where ANY of the items, outside of your initial game / ship package can be only purchased with cash. I hate the bifurcation of items in most online games, even when they are just for flair items. I want Star Citizen to allow players to earn everything they need in-game for ships, upgrades and even flair.

Our plan is once Star Citizen is launched the games ongoing running and content costs (which will be significant as we’re a data & content heavy game) will be supported by the ongoing purchase of new game packages as well as the money the game will earn by some of the players choosing to buy some UEC credits with real money as they don’t have the time or patience to earn the item in game (and for this I wanted to establish a cap so someone can’t just come in and buy everything, although with a skill based game with a heavy rock paper scissors approach to ship design and weapons this won’t help that much as you think). We are making the bet that this will be enough to cover the game ongoing running costs and we will not need a subscription like other big online games live Eve Online or World of War Craft. But it is a risk as we’re taking some of the things that games use to support on-going running costs like sale of flair items and making them not require money just gameplay.

I was disappointed to see so many people feeling that we were trying to gouge people or do a money grab. I thought I had been very clear in my post yesterday that everything was optional and only should be done with the intent of supporting the game financially as opposed to something that was required. The whole team is incredibly grateful for all the incredible support we’ve received but as far as we’re concerned anything beyond the most basic pledge is optional and should be done to support the game’s development and not because you feel like you have to.

I do agree that pricing structure feels off – part of that is the problem of a blend of real world prices (cosmetic items to show support had been established at $5) and the in-game prices we need to manage. One of the other things we have been focusing on is the idea that the pledge or add on ship you opt for now should be cheaper in real money terms than its equivalent in UEC when the game is live, so the few weapons have been priced to our best guess as to what these should be relative to the actual in-game costs of a ship once the game is live. This leads to a dichotomy in value – of course a poster should be a lot less than a laser gun! It also doesn’t help that we’ve established an exchange of 1000 UEC to $1. 5000 UEC for a poster just sounds a lot more than $5! I am inclined to halve the prices in the Voyager Direct Store, with some of the smaller flair pieces, like posters getting a reduction even beyond this.
Holotable concept by Chris OliviaHolotable concept by Chris Olivia

In addition there’s been quite a few complaints about having to “pay to test”. Which absolutely was not the intention! From a testing perspective what everyone can do now with their basic hangar (and don’t forget you can move items around between ships now) we have everything we need on the testing front. There is no need to buy a poster to help test it. The real testing will happen when you can earn UEC in-game and you then buy all these items. But we appreciate everyone’s eagerness to help out, so I’m investigating the difficulty of implementing “TEST UEC” now rather than waiting for the dogfighting module – the idea would be that everyone would get a certain amount of TEST UEC at different periods and could use the credits to buy items that would exist for a day in your hangar to check them out, try them on your various ships, walls and so on. This is doable but does require some significant work on the web side, so if we take this route it will be a little while before it can be implemented. We had originally planned this for the dogfighting module (as it is useful for people to try different load outs in balancing) but we can move up the schedule if enough people think it’s important.

In the spirit of community involvement and discussion and as a big thank you for reaching $17M I think the best thing to do is to give everyone a further 5,000 UEC and let you voice your opinion on some of the proposed solutions (and know that if you vote to reduce the Voyager Direct prices we will credit back the difference in UEC to people’s accounts for people that have already spent UEC)

So let us know!
Source and vote options. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13241-17-Million)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 01, 2013, 07:06:01 AM
I tried to use it, it popped up a hologram type thing with a menu but I couldn't interact with it beyond closing it.

Hold tab for your cursor. You can pick the ship, play/read about parts, spin it ETC..

I have an ironclad rule where I never ever purchase a game before release for any reason. I am probably going to throw some money at this project, though, because it's the one thing I want to succeed enough that I'll provide to the cause.

Thing is, though, is that I don't want to buy a ship, nor the hype goodies. I want to start the game from rock bottom, ground zero, in the straight up schlub ship. Like starting in the Shuttle in EV Nova, getting to eagerly anticipate the initially fast-paced diversification in ship options. I want to support a project, not buy myself up as a Space Romney.

I believe there is a pledge level that gives no ship, for like 5$ I think. The package title is: "Shut up and take my money". Also: Civilian for 10$.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pezzle on September 01, 2013, 09:30:24 AM
If it is not supposed to be a cash shop, why is it a cash shop?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on September 01, 2013, 09:55:00 AM
If it is not supposed to be a cash shop, why is it a cash shop?

It's one of those shops that let you buy things for cash, or earn the currency via playing the game.  Of course, since you can't actually earn currency yet because there is no game.. it is just a cash shop.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pezzle on September 01, 2013, 10:07:03 AM
Even if there was a game, the fact you can buy things for cash makes it a cash shop.  Glad I avoided this one. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on September 01, 2013, 10:28:15 AM
God what a perversion this game is, cash shop before gameplay.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on September 01, 2013, 11:01:47 AM
Quote
I am really, really curious to see how long the honeymoon phase will last here.

first explanation text to fans concerned about cashgrabby stuff means that the countdown clock is ON


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 01, 2013, 01:17:55 PM
Quote

Choose the option most important to you for Voyager Direct:

A  I think the Voyager Direct items are overpriced! Please reduce them by at least 50%.  = 29%

B  Provide us with a testing system now in the form of Test UECs or temporary test items rather than wait for it to be implemented in the dogfighting module.   =23%

C  I would rather have the cosmetic items in the pledge store for real money instead of UEC.  = 5%

D Now you’ve explained this, I’m ok with the current set up. = 43%

Total Votes: 10,219

Star Citizens: 239,314

As of this posting.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on September 01, 2013, 01:41:21 PM
I need to make an RMT game and disguise With a fine coating of nicely-polished bullshit.

This entire thing is eXXXtreme absurdity.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on September 01, 2013, 04:04:24 PM
I finally got into the thing. I like that the Freelancer is so cramped that my avatar has to turn his shoulders sideways to get up and down the boarding ramp. Also, the ship's console UIs appear highly reminiscent of the early Wing Commanders.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 02, 2013, 10:39:43 AM
Most of the talk on the forums is about the freelancer foreword windows. So, not really any scandal here.

I finally got into the thing. I like that the Freelancer is so cramped that my avatar has to turn his shoulders sideways to get up and down the boarding ramp. Also, the ship's console UIs appear highly reminiscent of the early Wing Commanders.

YES, I am quite loving the freelancer. There is even a non-used-as-of-yet-turret in the back cargo hold in the roof. I Do wonder what the two seats behind the pilot and copilot are for, and the one in the cargo hold.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 02, 2013, 12:49:14 PM
Ok, I finally got a bit of time to try it out. A couple screenshots (hopefully better ones to come later):

My business hangar (it lacks the Origin M50, which is not ready for release, yet):

A view of the ORIGIN 315p

Freelancer:

Entering the Freelancer cockpit:

Also, two tips:

- turn off the excessive motion blur: open the console with the tilde key, and type "r_motion blur 0" (without the quotes)

- If your resolution isn't listed in the game settings (like 1920x1200, in my case), add the following lines to StarCitizen\CitizenClient\Data\game.cfg (any position inside the file) :

r_width = [insert your width value]
r_height = [insert your height value]

While running the Module, my graphic card is all

(http://www.slamonline.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/crying_baby_1-307x307.jpg)

While I'm all (https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSPXpENo00K9VGPpEixXUtrTpNNnATLZIN2pmMeb47QkZjNJ7GG), but everything seems fine, although I'm sure this pre-alpha won't disappoint and I'll manage to melt down everything soon enough.

(but yeah, as expected, my i7-920, 6GB RAM, Nvidia GTX 560 is struggling quite a bit)



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on September 02, 2013, 08:53:44 PM
How much did this mind-blowing experience cost you?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 03, 2013, 01:36:59 AM
How much did this mind-blowing experience cost you?

So far, I've spent € 395, which I consider the money I pledged for the full experience (S42 + Star Citizen). The hangar is just something nice they decided to release in advance. To each his own crazyness.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on September 03, 2013, 03:01:45 AM
I pledged 40$. What do I have less than you?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on September 03, 2013, 04:46:18 AM
395 euros.
Goddamn.
Full experience.
HJ, CI, CIF, BJ, BBJ, and the works.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Dark_MadMax on September 03, 2013, 05:46:47 AM

(but yeah, as expected, my i7-920, 6GB RAM, Nvidia GTX 560 is struggling quite a bit)



 "as expected"? 560 is pretty damn nice card i frankly wouldnt expect it to "struggle". good thing release is 2 years away  as I still run everything on gtx465 and i5


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on September 03, 2013, 05:57:01 AM
I am the first one to get excited about the dream of future games I might like, and that's why I contributed to this one too. But damn, Star Citizen is evolving (very quickly) into a religion, its fans rabid zealots eager to empty their pockets to the feet of the prophet, who graces them with digital promises.

We'll see.

But 400€ for hopes, feels really really strange disturbing even to me. At this rate, we might as well give Scientology a try. Have you heard about their sci-fi vision of the universe? It is no less ambitious than Chris Roberts', and apparently makes you really happy after you've spent enough money on it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 03, 2013, 05:57:47 AM
How much did this mind-blowing experience cost you?

150.

How much have you spent on Hex?


I am the first one to get excited about the dream of future games I might like, and that's why I contributed to this one too. But damn, Star Citizen is evolving (very quickly) into a religion, its fans rabid zealots eager to empty their pockets to the feet of the prophet, who graces them with digital promises.

6,000 new pledges were added yesterday. However I'm not sure where your getting this "zealots" impression from, official forums are mostly civil, Or are you just shocked how many people have pledged?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on September 03, 2013, 06:19:44 AM
But 400€ for hopes, feels really really strange disturbing even to me. At this rate, we might as well give Scientology a try. Have you heard about their sci-fi vision of the universe? It is no less ambitious than Chris Roberts', and apparently makes you really happy after you've spent enough money on it.

(http://i.imgur.com/iJbtCAK.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Dark_MadMax on September 03, 2013, 06:39:30 AM
I am the first one to get excited about the dream of future games I might like, and that's why I contributed to this one too. But damn, Star Citizen is evolving (very quickly) into a religion, its fans rabid zealots eager to empty their pockets to the feet of the prophet, who graces them with digital promises.

We'll see.

But 400€ for hopes, feels really really strange disturbing even to me. At this rate, we might as well give Scientology a try. Have you heard about their sci-fi vision of the universe? It is no less ambitious than Chris Roberts', and apparently makes you really happy after you've spent enough money on it.

Chris Roberts delivers though, even if its a virtual spaceships for exorbitant amount of money .... unlike  some other projects....

he promised to make a space sim  game with multiplayer features in wing commander universe (well pretty much)  with attentions to details and good graphics.  he also actually meets his projects milestones with regular updates  and released modules. You might think space sim is not worth it - its totally fine , most people dont think its worth , however for some its worth the pledge (whether $10 or 1000$) , so I dont get all the hate. or do I? and its just jealousy


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on September 03, 2013, 06:51:19 AM
The only thing I don't like about this project is that the universe and the lore is designed around mirroring the twilight of the roman empire

which, for someone with an education about that timeframe of history, makes all the elements of the universe really oblique and the future progression of the game environment patently obvious. Sol is Rome itself. It will fall.

It will, in fact, be .... sacked by the Vanduuls.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on September 03, 2013, 06:53:50 AM
so I dont get all the hate

For me it's just a game with a scope that seems incredibly difficult to achieve AND we've seen game after game which during development promises large scopes fail to actually deliver on that scope.  I'd pay good money for a game which actually delivers on what this game is promising, I just can't understand why people believe so fervently that this is the one that is going to make good on its promises.

I'm willing to put money into projects.  I did so with Hex, but I did so with Hex because the game it is trying to be is basically already proven.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 03, 2013, 06:59:29 AM
Have you paid attention to all the updates about development? as in, been following along. I personally, and likely others, get a good impression from them.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on September 03, 2013, 07:06:31 AM
40 bucks, I don't have any regrets. I was going to buy it anyways even if it was bad.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on September 03, 2013, 07:11:38 AM
so I dont get all the hate. or do I? and its just jealousy

I knew you weren't bright, but I wasn't aware you were a complete idiot.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on September 03, 2013, 07:20:24 AM
Have you paid attention to all the updates about development? as in, been following along. I personally, and likely others, get a good impression from them.

I've been getting regular updates from a friend who is big into it, watched videos, etc..  My main problem is that I have seen only minimal gameplay in extremely controlled environments.  I know the game is pre-alpha.  I'll be happy to jump on the bandwagon once I see what this thing is going to be like on a moment to moment basis and it looks good.  But the majority of hype I've seen seems based on the assumption that this is the sandbox game we've been waiting for.  I'm simply not convinced yet that it actually is. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 03, 2013, 08:14:52 AM
Yeah, in a couple years or more I might feel like a complete idiot (or yeah, feel free to say that I'm already an idiot, ok :P) because of the amount of money I spent for this game project. You guys are completely right when you talk about "proven" vs. "unproven" models (TCG vs. MMO/Multiplayer space sim), but as you know, the KS (or any derivative form of it) model applied to videogames (but not only them) is pretty much a "leap of faith", which yeah, in the end may result in a collapse of the model itself, at least when applied to this genre, because of plenty broken promises and half-assed realizations.

Meanwhile, let's leave to each one of us the decision on how much this "leap" will cost (personal budget, trust in the developer, passion for the sub-genre, etc.).




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on September 03, 2013, 08:50:15 AM
Lucas, you are not the idiot. That was for DarkMadMax.

Anyway, my only question to you would be "why 400€? What do 400€ get you that you are afraid of missing on in the eventuality that the game turns out good?". It's a honest question, maybe because no one had a chance to test it yet, or because there's no gameplay video, maybe because 400€ is about eight to eighty other games on Steam, maybe because I really am not sure if I understood the business model of Star Citizen and I really don't know what you get with 400$ that the 40$ people won't be able to get just by playing. Seriously, this is not about pledging 10$, 40$, 120$. This is about over 400$, and I am just trying to understand why. Why not happily "leap" while staying in the realm of "reasonable"? What is MrBloodworth missing on with his 150$ that you are instead getting with your 520$ (converted from the 395€ you said you pledged).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 03, 2013, 09:25:51 AM
Yeah, yeah, I know you weren't directing that to me, it was just my own definition while reasoning on the subject :)

Answer to your question (actually, the second part of your question) : absolutely nothing, beside some extra virtual goods that the developers assured anyone will be able to get in-game anyway. The difference, here, is really that I'm just willing to shell to some overseas developers an above average amount of money in order to fund their project, that's it.

And yes, I realize a lot of people might feel it's not "right" or altogether stupid to feel ok about it like I'm doing, but at this point I guess we should just leave it to that person's coscience and personal choices, otherwise it becomes one of those endless and "circular" forum debates (not that I have a problem with it, we're in a internet forum, infact) that bring us toward nothing, really :)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Hoax on September 03, 2013, 09:35:19 AM
I think it may turn out that having founders with all their perks and bonuses is actually much more destructive to the health and the potential reach of a game's community then one might expect. This project should be one of the more interesting illustrations of that.

When it gets really bad is when the wants of the founders is in opposition to something that will help improve the new player experience. That's when a game has real problems on its hands.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 03, 2013, 09:40:49 AM
I don't understand that comment.

There is nothing that backers get that impact new player experience. good or bad. I'm not seeing how anything original backers get would be impacted by, well, anything.

Here is what my 150$ ( Sans golden ticket and Stretch goal stuff, every backer gets stretch stuff ) gets me:

Quote
Starting Money: 5,000 UEC
Lifetime Insurance
Deluxe Green Collector's Box
Spaceship-shaped USB Drive
CD of Game Soundtrack
Glossy Fold-up Star Map
Beta Access
Alpha Access
Hardback Engineering Manual
Squadron 42 Digital Download
Star Citizen Digital Download

Oh, and a freelancer to start with. Lucas up there gets the same things, +3-5 ships ( not sure what he got ). Every item, like the ships are available to be earned in game. There are no Golden bullets.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on September 03, 2013, 09:45:50 AM
I can completely understand why people are doling out cash to the promise this project represents, and I can think of way worse ventures for investing your crowdfunding money, even if I am completely surprised by the sheer amount of $$ people are hurling at future digital spaceship IOU's for a game that isn't made yet.

And as weird as it is that people will hurl cash hand over fist at the rate they are doing, that weirdness is strictly on the fanbase. If the internet at large wants to chuck cash at RSI in huge volumes, I am not going to fault Chris at all for continuing to encourage such an amazing cashflow. TAKE IT. TAKE THEIR MONEY.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 03, 2013, 09:56:16 AM
During the original campaign, I chose the same "Freelancer" tier Bloodworth did (hmm, 125 euros, I think), then I added more stuff along the way. To summarize:

Quote
Starting Money: 5,000 UEC
Lifetime Insurance
Deluxe Green Collector's Box
Spaceship-shaped USB Drive
CD of Game Soundtrack
Glossy Fold-up Star Map
Beta Access
Alpha Access
Hardback Engineering Manual
Squadron 42 Digital Download
Star Citizen Digital Download
----

- Squadron 42 hardback manual
- Origin 315p ship
- Aurora LX ship
- Origin M50 ship
- The Making of Star Citizen (hardback)
- "Shut up and take my money!" ship skin
- Gamescom hangar trophy
- "Centurion" subscription (3 months so far, ongoing)



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 03, 2013, 09:57:54 AM
I upgraded from bounty to Freelancer about 2 months later, i think. I do hold a golden ticket, what ever that thing does.

But yeah, I don't get the comment about things getting changed later, founder pulling weight, all this stuff is like.. Trivial in game items or physical goods.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: KallDrexx on September 03, 2013, 10:01:13 AM
Have you paid attention to all the updates about development? as in, been following along. I personally, and likely others, get a good impression from them.

Honestly, my issue with everything is that they seem to be very focused on pleasing backers and it remains to be seen how much that is distracting them away from the core game.  A LOT of polish had to go into the hangar app that may not really have been necessary at this stage of the development process.  


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Dark_MadMax on September 03, 2013, 10:07:12 AM
For me it's just a game with a scope that seems incredibly difficult to achieve AND we've seen game after game which during development promises large scopes fail to actually deliver on that scope.  I'd pay good money for a game which actually delivers on what this game is promising, I just can't understand why people believe so fervently that this is the one that is going to make good on its promises.

I'm willing to put money into projects.  I did so with Hex, but I did so with Hex because the game it is trying to be is basically already proven.

From what I read  in Chris Roberts interviews the scope is actually  quite in line with funding they  so far achieved. It's not an MMO "with leaving breathing universe in real -time" -its a multiplayer enabled space simulator with central database and instanced  multiplayer battles (similar to world of tanks just with more elaborate transitions between instances )

They already showed they have game engine  and quite a good model design crew ( with all the ships released so far and hangar module). It not a stretch to imagine they will meet their goals  in 2 years with 20 million in funds they already have .Space simulators are not THAT expensive to make

they also have quite a sound business model wtih f2p/cash shop which is proven to work. heck if  i could buy the shares of Chris's company I would buy some right now cause it has potential to be extremely profitable. Unlike the pledges (which is why I dont pledge - if project is successful you just basically gave them funding for free ,and if not you just funded their crazy project for no cost to them)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 03, 2013, 10:19:17 AM
Have you paid attention to all the updates about development? as in, been following along. I personally, and likely others, get a good impression from them.

Honestly, my issue with everything is that they seem to be very focused on pleasing backers and it remains to be seen how much that is distracting them away from the core game.  A LOT of polish had to go into the hangar app that may not really have been necessary at this stage of the development process.  

Chris Roberts talked about this, and has the opposite conclusion. This is part of the development plan, iterate early, get it out, gather feedback. He WANTS feedback and some polish early. The sum of all the modules = Star citizen persistent.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on September 03, 2013, 10:26:30 AM
I see. This game is why no one talked actual trash about us spending so much money on Hex. People were dumping money into an even more ridiculous pipe dream.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on September 03, 2013, 10:36:48 AM
To me the difference about spending on Hex is that TCGs are about spending money. You can spend before the game is out or spend after the game is out, the whole story there IS about spending money and to a degree they are pay to win. So one might question that you should wait before dumping 500$ in an unreleased card game, but the reality is that if the game will be any good that same person will have to spend much more than that on the game anyway, so by betting that Hex will be good, you are being reward with lots of benefits that will (supposedly) help you spend less later.

That said, I spent 0 (zero) on Hex because being a money fueled game I just cannot afford it.

Star Citizen on the other hand is NOT a money fueled game, and this is why I have been asking all this questions about the big pledges. What do they get you? Why do you do it? Etc.

But no, even though both games are unreleased (Hex is admittedly much closer to release so everything is a little less vague and less ambitious) and might be shitty, the advance money shelled out cannot really be compared as Hex is all about purchasing stuff while Star Citizen is not. Or so I thought... heh.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: KallDrexx on September 03, 2013, 11:01:25 AM
Chris Roberts talked about this, and has the opposite conclusion. This is part of the development plan, iterate early, get it out, gather feedback. He WANTS feedback and some polish early. The sum of all the modules = Star citizen persistent.

That's good lip service and all, but just taking a lot of stand-alone modules and plugging them together at the end does not make a good cohesive product.  There is a lot of development, polish and testing time in making sure these "modules" work for the general backers (and supporting issues they find which may not even be applicable to the final product) that takes away from the overall development effort on working out the module interactions.  Furthermore, feedback about how a module works may not   Not to mention you have to now sift through thousands and thousands of intense fanboy feedback to find the useful information from them. 

This model works when you are doing something like a custom website where you constantly need to create small parts of the page and get approval from a single client.  The fact that he is trying to replicate this model to a project as massivly ambitious as what he is trying to accomplish while trying to gather feedback from the general leagues of internet fanboys (who feel entitled since they paid hundreds of dollars to be a fanboy) does not bode well to me.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on September 03, 2013, 11:43:59 AM
The problem I see with this modular approach is that the game doesn't appear to be that modular.

Why is the hangar as separate module? Isn't it just a location in the final game world? I suppose there are some unique things you can do in it that you can't do other places, like customization, but much of the functionality is stuff you'd expect to be present elsewhere in the game as well.

Polishing up one module at a time is very strange to me vs making a rough version of the game then improving it over time. It's like how when you draw a person you don't draw a super detailed hand then draw a super detailed arm, you rough out the whole person first. If a developer was making this game in a more normal way the first version of the hangar could just be a menu.

This is essentially a vertical slice they've called a module, and their plan is to release a bunch of vertical slices and call it a game.

At what point in this process are they going to have enough end to end to sit down, play, and say "hey this is pretty fun and works well as a whole?" It looks to be fairly late. I find it highly likely that they'll do something like ship boarding then get further along and realize that in the context of the game as a whole ship boarding feels extraneous.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 03, 2013, 12:44:06 PM
The hanger was not scheduled to be released. So there is that. Right now the order is:

Quote
Hangar Module
Dogfighting Module
Social / Planetside Module
FPS / Ship Boarding Module
Squadron 42 / Singleplayer Alpha
Persistent Universe Module / Beta
Star Citizen & Squadron 42

Getting the Dog fighting module out early and in the hands of players is a fantastic idea all its own. That's a tremendous amount of testing and feel play in a way that hurts nothing in the end product. Not to mention, they just tested the most of the back-end from patching, authentication and load. To answer your question of when will they sit and play it all KallDrexx, Margalis at every stage.

Found a quote:
Quote
Chris Roberts - as noted in the videos - believes in making shorter, calculated jaunts toward the finish line, rather than sprinting all-out toward the end (see: AGILE/SCRUM). The idea here is that there's still "crunch time," but it's in spread-out intervals that are more survivable: "I'm not saying our method will inherently make us brilliant and everyone else dumb, but [...] instead of having one crazy crunch at the end, it's sort of smaller sprints where there's little crunches, but you're in better shape towards the end."

And some good reading on his process/thoughts.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-04-22-chris-roberts-how-incredible-community-transforms-development


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 03, 2013, 12:56:18 PM
Yes, this game of course aims to be pretty "organic", where the result of a space battle have repercussions on trading routes and planetary commmerce.

The Dev Team will always have the "whole picture" available for internal testing, just like any other dev team. And just like any other dev team, they'll get some things right and other wrong when it comes to the predictability of players' actions and behaviours.

I think they're already applying to an extreme the new crowfunding approach, where you offer something a little more tangible to your playerbase from the beginning (surely more than the weekly/monthly/bi-weekly written updates of other KS projects), 'cause you consider them your "investors" (although we're not investors, of course), so you periodically show them "builds" of your game.

Yeah, this hangar module is just a useless "show off"; the so called "dogfighting" module (expect at the end of 2013) will expose them a lot more; I guess that within a month or so we'll finally start seeing more in-game "pew pew" videos (which supposedly is, you know, the core of the game, after all :P)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 03, 2013, 01:10:58 PM
This development system, in regards to working closely with a community to shape the game. Instead of going Dark for years then SURPRISE! is more in line with what SOE is doing, but much grander.

For those of you who think you are paying attention, did you know every day a developer on the team answers questions from the community? I'll leave up to you to say if they are blowing smoke, I certainly do not see any. I see direct answers daily to the best of their knowledge at the time. I see answers given directly, sometimes over technical, every day. or they say "We do not know yet".

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/categories/ask-a-developer


RE: HEX, I have little interest on yet another Card game where its P2W. Really could care less. If its free when it comes out, perhaps ill play it on my ship while doing a run :) ( Unlikely though )


EDIT: Also, the Caterpillar is sexy!

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/vt2qe6l9x54lnr/source/Cat-Model-Render1.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 03, 2013, 01:30:38 PM
Not sure I dig that "elongated" shape, I prefer my fat Freelancer, for now  :grin:

Oh, by the way, not sure if someone already posted the $19 million stretch goals (18 million is a backer-exclusive star system), but...Player-controlled space stations are coming!

Quote
$19 million

- Know your foe with a Jane’s Fighting Ships style manual free in PDF form to all pledgers.
- Manage Space Stations – Players will compete to own and operate a limited number of space stations across the galaxy.
- RSI Museum will air monthly, with a new game featured each time!

Not sure what this system will entail, especially the "operate" part. I guess we'll hear more soon enough.

EDIT: looks like I'm "not sure" about a lot of things, today (check your grammar, Lucas, sigh :P)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on September 03, 2013, 01:39:57 PM
Why is the hangar as separate module? Isn't it just a location in the final game world?

Hangar module didn't originally exist, but I guess they were looking at where they were in expected development and figured they could throw out a testing ieteration for getting to walk around and in your ships.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 03, 2013, 01:46:14 PM
They are already talking about some changes based on it, namely some of the ships are cramped or views obscured. Also, you guys do know that when anything is released, it just gets patched to your client. "Stand alone" is likely not the right word to use when talking about the modules, they do build on each other.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 03, 2013, 02:15:38 PM
Updated pitch video (about 9' 30"):

http://vimeo.com/73365240

the initial sequence has been polished with added lighting and shadow effects; also, the whole interview with Chris Roberts is entirely new (of course he repeats some of the fundamental goals of the project). We also get a very quick glance of space station exploration (and more gorgeous planetside stations concept art).

More (and shorter) pitch videos (these are updated as well):

PC Power - http://vimeo.com/73365241
The Economy - http://vimeo.com/73360398
Immersion - http://vimeo.com/73360154
Physics - http://vimeo.com/73360153
Crowdfunding - http://vimeo.com/73360152
The Dream - http://vimeo.com/73359926
Citizenship - http://vimeo.com/73359924
Chris Roberts - http://vimeo.com/73359923



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 03, 2013, 03:56:35 PM
Moar hangar module pics:

Getting aboard the Origin 315p:

A couple more views of the 315p:


Another look at the Freelancer:

cargo bay and inside:




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on September 03, 2013, 06:36:21 PM
I love this thread. It has everything that keeps me coming back: people who distill stuff I'm casually interested in into bite size posts and so eager for something new and unique they're willing to pre-pay on the hope even some of their hopes are realized. I'm not being snarky either. I can't connect with the amount of fanboi someone needs in order to invest hundreds of $/€ on a promise. But I'm man enough to admit I'm kinda jealous too. The last time I cared that much I PlayerAuction'd $60 for a million gold so I could buy a house in UO... 13 years ago.

I'm excited for this game. If they give me an advantage for buying a new flightstick... heck, even for letting me use my still-working MS Sidewinder, and it's a polished-enough action-y space sim/RPG, I will give them all of the monies.

I can accept big spenders having some advantage. Time or money, I'll never have as much as those who can spend more of either than I'm willing to commit to virtual whatever. But what I don't want is the Facebook-now-mobile style arcade machine quarters approach designed around 2 minute checkin gaming. That is fine for the casual gamer who are fine with the level of effort put into their free games.

But I left casual behind long before I even knew what "online" was  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on September 03, 2013, 07:30:17 PM
I see. This game is why no one talked actual trash about us spending so much money on Hex. People were dumping money into an even more ridiculous pipe dream.

schild, stop playing children card games, we're GOING TO SPAAAAACE.
In all seriousness, I love games, I play them a lot, but with the modern online game retail discount practices I just can't justify spending more than $50 on a new release. And none of the arguments for it in this thread convinced me one iota.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 06, 2013, 10:52:43 AM
A very short glimpse of the W.I.P. planetside stations, shown during today's "Wingman's Hangar":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06FIAAn2jjs

Go to the 1' 05" mark, it will start shortly after. Looks quite good  :awesome_for_real: (watch in HD, of course)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 11, 2013, 06:35:37 AM
A couple updates:

The official website now have a longer version of Taris Coruscant the planetside station video: it's just a "look and feel" one, devoid of NPCs and basic lightining and almost all furniture:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UaFSd-ezQc

20 million stretch goal:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals

Quote
First person combat on select lawless planets. Don’t just battle on space stations and platforms… take the fight to the ground!

Nothing else is known about this: will it be just a matter of fighting your way to the bar and weapon shop while PKers camp the entrances, or something a little more structured and complex (ground warzones/arenas) ?

The "Voyager Direct" prices have been lowered after the initial public outburst (although the official poll showed the majority basically answered "leave it as it is"). Buggy went from (roughly) $20 to $15; posters from $5 to $1, plus other adjustments.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/voyager-direct

- earlier today, the project surpassed the 250.000 pledgers mark (dunno if it includes KS). Funds raised as I write this: 18,575,559. 24.000 alpha slots left (which means being able to download all the future modules, including the proper alpha & beta tests of both games).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on September 11, 2013, 02:00:03 PM
Adding an FPS as a stretch goal is a pretty good idea.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on September 11, 2013, 02:05:19 PM
I can't really take these promises seriously. A bonus fps in your kickstarted space shooter? It's not going to be good. Like at all. And for the record I'd really love to be wrong here.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 11, 2013, 02:17:28 PM
? Its already built into Crytek engine ( its like, what it does out the box ), and already going to be in game anyway due to boarding and plantside actions. This is likely just an arena type thing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on September 12, 2013, 03:03:41 AM
? Its already built into Crytek engine ( its like, what it does out the box ), and already going to be in game anyway due to boarding and plantside actions. This is likely just an arena type thing.

The engine isn't necessarily the problem. It's the constant scope creep that people should be worried about.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 12, 2013, 03:29:16 AM
? Its already built into Crytek engine ( its like, what it does out the box ), and already going to be in game anyway due to boarding and plantside actions. This is likely just an arena type thing.

The engine isn't necessarily the problem. It's the constant scope creep that people should be worried about.

True, that's the main worry on the official forums as well, no matter that the vast majority of the so called "stretch goals" up to $21 million were planned well in advance. Another thing worth mentioning, is that the ground FPS portion (as well as anything else concerning "ground", including planetside stations) has been outsourced to a company called "Void Alpha".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on September 12, 2013, 10:27:18 AM
One the things I have qualms about is that they're not using the SC crowd-funds entirely for SC-specific goals. For example, they're buying themselves a movie-quality audio production facility and a mocap studio. These do help SC, but to me they feel more like capital investments for the company.

How many indie developers sink the expense of building their own mocap stage rather than rent one for a few days/weeks per project? I've never heard of anyone doing that before.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 12, 2013, 10:35:02 AM
Inside Cloud Imperium Games . Mocap Update . Bryan Brewer  (http://youtu.be/qa1gyzNfy9k)

Completely makes sense to me.

Quote
Unfortunately, motion capture is expensive. Very few studios have their own motion capture rigs: typically, development teams rent out the technology, studio space and talent for a limited amount of time. A day of motion capture costs between $25,000 and $50,000 and provides roughly 200 “moves”; simple gestures, limb movements and so on. More complex shoots which require props, additional actors, finger movements and other factors are significantly more expensive. Still more expensive are shoots that capture audio and facial movements. This expense-to-benefit ration means that there’s a great deal of preparation required for a mocap shoot… and that messing up or deciding you want something more in the game later means another chunk of money.

What we want to do is build our own studio. We want to dedicate an area for mocap and purchase our own mocap system outright. It would cost more than we have currently budgeted for mocap leasing to do this to start… but the result would improve the game significantly. With our own mocap system we could generate cutscenes and moves as we determine they are needed, which will be especially valuable for the Star Citizen live team charged with feeding the game constant content!  It’s even conceivable that we could rent it out when not in use, ultimately funneling more money into Star Citizen’s development!

Lead Animator Bryan Brewer is currently looking at two potential mocap systems for body movement. The first is the Vicon system, which he calls the Ferrari of mocap rigs. We would purchase sixteen of their 2.0 megapixel T20S cameras and sixteen of their 1.0 mexapixel T10S cameras for roughly $230,000. A second option is OptiTrack, the “Porsche” of mocap systems, which would be 24 4.1 megapixel Prime 41 cameras and 2 Prime17 cameras for significantly less: $150,000.

Source (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12979-t)  They went with OptiTrack. by thoes figures, the OptiTrack system cost them as much as 3 sessions. ( Baring any other costs ).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on September 12, 2013, 10:58:44 AM
True, that's the main worry on the official forums as well, no matter that the vast majority of the so called "stretch goals" up to $21 million were planned well in advance. Another thing worth mentioning, is that the ground FPS portion (as well as anything else concerning "ground", including planetside stations) has been outsourced to a company called "Void Alpha".

What, you don't trust the makers of "Frog Bog" to make a great FPS?

The scope creep for the FPS section is an entire other game. Many companies can't make a good FPS using CryEngine even when their game is just supposed to be an FPS, let alone as some side-dish to a totally separate game.

I mean, Eve tried to do a similar FPS as a separate product and it was mediocre. For $20 million Roberts is going to create the most amazing open world multiplayer space sim and an FPS as well? $20 million is a lot for some types of games but not for 2 or 3 AAA games smushed together.

I'll be shocked if this stuff ships on time at reasonable quality.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 12, 2013, 11:03:42 AM
Eve tried to create FPS functionality in an engine that never had any subsystems in it for FPS, ever. An Asynchronous based engine at that. That WAS two different games in every respect. Unless you mean Dust, that was CCP Shanghai and Unreal 3.

Its Behaviour Interactive (http://www.bhvr.com/en/) doing part of the work on the Planetside stuff, not "Void Alpha"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Hoax on September 12, 2013, 02:13:18 PM
This is stupid and the fact that most people who care enough to follow this thread have already invested so much time and money into the game that they can't admit to themselves how stupid it is...

I hate these Kickstarter/founder games just because they make the community even more toxic and full of rabid fanbois than a normal title.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 12, 2013, 03:04:33 PM
Eve tried to create FPS functionality in an engine that never had any subsystems in it for FPS, ever. An Asynchronous based engine at that. That WAS two different games in every respect. Unless you mean Dust, that was CCP Shanghai and Unreal 3.

Its Behaviour Interactive (http://www.bhvr.com/en/) doing part of the work on the Planetside stuff, not "Void Alpha"

I went to the above mentioned website and read this:

http://www.bhvr.com/en/news/2012/12/12/

Basically, it's even more split: BI is doing the "ship boarding shooter experience" (and will probably take care of the ground FPS part as well), while void alpha maybe it's simply building the graphics for the planetside stations (and related interiors):

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13249-Letter-From-The-Chairman-18-Million

"This footage of the Terra spaceport being built by the team at Void Alpha is the first indication of the kind of things you’ll find when you leave your hangar."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 12, 2013, 03:22:47 PM
No one ever said it wasn't ambitious. Also, I get the feeling some think they are making the next battlefield # in addition to a space Sim. Its more likely to be closer to Han and Greedo in a bar. And that's fine by me. There are a ton of assumptions being made, but I'm not seeing it be made by those that have intrust in the game. My last post was nothing more than clarifying some information, clearly that's just fanboisim.

I have no idea what the game will end up being, I have some ideas due to past works, I like what I am seeing and hearing. I just continue to watch, play what they release, and read what they put out. I'm not even trying to convince anyone of anything. But once again, some at F13 just can't have that. I've just been posting news items hoping for some civil discussion.


One of my personal worry is, with ship boarding. There isn't much room on my freelancer for, anything really. Going to be one short pew pew if I get borded, if its even allowed on that size ship. Its a question i submitted to the Wing-mans forum question for tomorrows episode. The likely response is "we don't know yet".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on September 12, 2013, 06:31:32 PM
Eve tried to create FPS functionality in an engine that never had any subsystems in it for FPS, ever. An Asynchronous based engine at that. That WAS two different games in every respect. Unless you mean Dust, that was CCP Shanghai and Unreal 3.

I do in fact mean Dust.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Teleku on September 13, 2013, 02:33:00 AM
Did Eve try to make some other FPS when I wasn't looking?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on September 13, 2013, 03:20:07 AM
What would be neat is if the FPS was integrated as part of the world itself, ie. you seamlessly walk in and strap into your space ship. Boarders attack your cargo ship, take off your seatbelt, open the gun locker and go shoot at em while the ship autopilots towards your destination. Or put on a space suit, roll down your side window and take pot shots with your pistol as the boarding ship approaches.

But it's not going to be that, not in a million years.




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on September 13, 2013, 05:00:36 AM
My take is that this 'FPS stuff' is going to be a upscale (but still small) version of the boarding PvP

One of my personal worry is, with ship boarding. There isn't much room on my freelancer for, anything really. Going to be one short pew pew if I get borded, if its even allowed on that size ship. Its a question i submitted to the Wing-mans forum question for tomorrows episode. The likely response is "we don't know yet".

My understanding is that any ship with a crew count greater than 1 can be boarded (and be used to board). But I also seem to recall seeing somewhere that you could only board ships bigger than (and presumably equal to) yours (by crew count).

The devil of course is in the details as apparently you need to use your tractor beam to move your whole ship so that your docking port connects onto the immobile target ships docking port (a task for which the tractor beam is not designed) to board rather than just punching a hole in the hull anywhere you like.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 13, 2013, 06:40:55 AM
My understanding is that any ship with a crew count greater than 1 can be boarded (and be used to board). But I also seem to recall seeing somewhere that you could only board ships bigger than (and presumably equal to) yours (by crew count).

Yeah, I went looking for answers. This is also my understanding of how it works too. In essence this means anything larger than a freelancer is enabled, but not the freelancer. I think we also have to keep in mind, Ship boarding is supposed to be a difficult thing to initiate, and a rare occurrence. I would also imagine you need a ship with a docking collar as well, the freelancer lacks one.

What would be neat is if the FPS was integrated as part of the world itself, ie. you seamlessly walk in and strap into your space ship. Boarders attack your cargo ship, take off your seatbelt, open the gun locker and go shoot at em while the ship autopilots towards your destination. Or put on a space suit, roll down your side window and take pot shots with your pistol as the boarding ship approaches.

But it's not going to be that, not in a million years.

Not sure why not? Transitions are already seamless between toon and ships, EVA has already been confirmed as a feature, and has already been shown. And there are other games as precedent for this kind of EVA combat. I do fully expect when you are bordered you will get out of your seat and fight. The style or pace of combat is really anyone's guess at this point though.


EDIT:

Had to dig deep on the sites way back machine:

This was the initial outline for boarding
Quote
Boarding Information

As promised, we’d like to share the internal concept for ship-to-ship docking and boarding concept. Please note that this is the very early pitch—some details may change as we balance the game and build out/expand the mechanic!

Boarding Mechanics

The goal is to develop a system where player-to-player boarding is an occasional reward rather than something that becomes the focus of the game; we’re not building Grand Theft Starship. As such, we need a high cost of entry: players must dedicate both significant resources and skill to be able to put themselves in a position to board in the first place.

There are two major limitations on docking: 1) the target ship must be COMPLETELY disabled before it can be boarder and 2) docking requires the attacking player to dedicate credits and slots to several gate technologies, including a docking collar and a tractor beam.

Disabling a target ship is a much more difficult task than it was in Wing Commander, where leech weapons would simply wear down the target. In Star Citizen, the player needs to knock down the enemy ships’ shields and then (without causing a hull breach) pick off the individual thrusters. This is the skill barrier: if you can’t shoot well enough to take apart a ship piece by piece then you can’t board an enemy ship.

Tractor Beams are a dangerous technology. They take up a standard gun slot and are designed for collecting material significantly less massive than their host ship (escaped pilots, cargo pallets, bobbleheads, etc.) As such, there’s a constant danger of overloading when using them to dock, especially with cheaper models. Additionally, they require that the target ship be ABSOLUTELY DISABLED – firing a tractor beam at a ship that still has functional thrusters will overload it and severely damage the attacker.

A docking collar is needed to attach ships together. As with tractor beams, different levels are available which will allow connections to different sizes of ships; boarding something large like a carrier is much easier than something your own size, like a Constellation (disabling another Constellation’s thrusters will require a crack shot, to say the least, and a much more accurate collar.) If the game hits the $4 million mark, collarless external ship combat will be added with pilots in pressure suits wearing EMUs able to battle it out in space; explosive charges would be used to open the targeted ship’s airlock.

The standard VDU will not identify whether or not a ship is completely disabled; it will have a gut feel/skill element to it. Higher software upgrades will provide more in-depth scans of a target that will give you a better assurance that no maneuvering remains in place… for a price.

Also note that docking mechanics do NOT apply to ships with a single crewman or certain smaller bombers; the general rule is that if there’s not room to walk around then only the salvage mechanic can apply to it. You need a crewed ship to board in the first place and you can only board crewed ships which are larger than your own (in crew size.)

Combat

Once a ship has successfully tractored in a target vessel, it will dock at a pre-determined location on the hull (ie, you will always dock at one of the same doors on the Constellation.) There will be a 30-second period where the attacking player cuts open the target’s door. The defender can use that time to set up to fire back. Think an interactive recreation of the opening scene of Star Wars, with the Rebels nervously waiting to defend the corvette from Stormtroopers.

Players will have access to a variety of upgrades to help/hinder boarding operations. Armored space suits, hand scanners, explosives, more powerful (or functionally different) weapons and so on will be available to players on both sides of the equations.

Defending players will have upgrade options that can help put the battle in their favor: a self destruct process, a dead man’s switch, automated miniguns they can position in the cockpit and so on. It’s going to be a challenge to get onboard a targeted ship successfully, one that you’ll need to work with your friends to accomplish.

Finally, the cost to recover a boarded ship will ultimately be high. Since you’ve disabled and otherwise crippled it in battle (and cut into the hull to board) you must conduct repairs in deep space if you wish to keep the hull rather than simply looting it… during which the ship is in danger of being boarded by a third party. Boarding parties should plan to carry an advance repair bot with them or to suffer the difficulty of flying in a depressurized cockpit (limited life support time, less responsive controls.) Finally, only one ship can be flown at once: you will need to work with a partner if you wish to keep a boarded ship and your own craft.

Source (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12777-35-Million-Unlock)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 13, 2013, 07:40:26 AM
Heh, forgot about the boarding mechanics details, especially the possibility of zero-gravity combat with magnetic boots on the hull...This is going to be crazy  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on September 14, 2013, 08:07:56 AM
during this time the ship is at risk of being boarded by a third party, which itself is then at risk of being boarded by a fourth party, which oh it just spirals out into an orgy of permanently fused ships


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on September 14, 2013, 01:39:01 PM
during this time the ship is at risk of being boarded by a third party, which itself is then at risk of being boarded by a fourth party, which oh it just spirals out into an orgy of permanently fused ships job security through constant balance fixes

 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 16, 2013, 08:00:53 PM
19 million reached. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13266-Letter-From-The-Chairman-19-Million)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 17, 2013, 02:20:20 AM
The above linked post is interesting for a variety of reasons:

- Salvage Mechanic: I'm not sure what they're aiming for: keeping in mind the server structure and the prevalent multiplayer/co-op aspect, I think it could mean randomly generated (and instanced) missions both in space and on ground, where you have to take down ships/defeat enemies (and some of the more risky salvage missions might take place in "outlaw" sectors, so that they can put ground PvP in the mix) then do whatever is necessary to access relics/secret data/whatever within the peculiar mechanics boundaries (some of those salvage missions could involve 5/10/20 - man "dungeons", hence creating a more traditional MMO form of endgame?)


- Then:

Quote
Some Citizens have asked if $21 million will mark the end of the funding campaign and the stretch goal unlocks. The answer is no: For a couple of key reasons –

The first is that goal of achieving $20M in development funding will actually be reached approximately at $23 million in funds raised. This is because we display the gross amount of funds received, but out of this we had to pay Kickstarter (approx. 10% of funds raised), Paypal/Credit card providers (approx. 4-5%), we have to reserve the fulfilment costs of the physical goods you have pledged for (over $1M right now) and finally the costs of building and maintaining the RSI site (which is a significant but very worthwhile investment, more so as some of the planned features like “organizations” rolls out).

There are also additional running costs beyond the development to be contemplated – customer support for the growing community, the cost of delivering terabytes of data and longer term hosting servers for the dogfighting and then later the persistent universe itself.

"Lucas, give us MOAR monnie!!"  :why_so_serious: :why_so_serious:

Anyway, they're quite aware of the established "inertia" that this project is building when it comes to crowdfunding, so no reason to stop at the $21 million mark, I guess.

The poll at the end of the post (currently 88% for option "C) show that people want moar and moar stuff, and to hell with the so called "feature creep". Hopefully the Dev Team will know better and deliver any further stretch goal only with the post-launch Live Team.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on September 17, 2013, 03:14:42 AM
Switch from a linear progression of stretch goal "costs" to exponential.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Kageru on September 17, 2013, 04:19:40 AM
Did Eve try to make some other FPS when I wasn't looking?

I suspect it refers to their eventual ambitions for Incarna / Walking in Stations, which the previous videos and some developer hints suggested. But they are so slow to add content, let alone gameplay and possibly fun, that there was a lot of player hostility.

The iterative model for this game sounds good. Helps prevent scope creep because promises are one thing but releases are frequent and public. And the more content you can show the sooner you can start getting some money flowing to keep development funded.

The idea of an Eve type game, iteratively evolving over time, with vaguely competent developers sounds fantastic.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on September 18, 2013, 11:38:00 AM
How pissed is Curt Schilling that Kickstarter wasn't around when he was flushing tens of millions down the shitter?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Kageru on September 18, 2013, 04:10:01 PM

I was actually thinking of exactly that as a counter-example. A very large amount of money, manpower and big dreams vanishes into a big office and is never seen again.

Once you are doing digital releases to your fan-base you don't need to build towards an eventual, perfect, big release. You just get content out, get people to buy in, and then iterate. As long as you keep the game fresh and evolving people will keep following and the depth of the game builds over time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Shannow on September 18, 2013, 04:29:05 PM
Helps if you know something about game design versus, say, throwing a baseball (or being an overly talkative douche bag..:)).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on September 18, 2013, 10:46:52 PM

Once you are doing digital releases to your fan-base you don't need to build towards an eventual, perfect, big release. You just get content out, get people to buy in, and then iterate. As long as you keep the game fresh and evolving people will keep following and the depth of the game builds over time.


Like MechWarrior?

(Sidenote: something autocorrected the word 'Mechwarrior' above to ensure it had a capital W in the middle. Nerds are everywhere, even all up in your autocorrect.)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on September 19, 2013, 12:35:53 AM

Once you are doing digital releases to your fan-base you don't need to build towards an eventual, perfect, big release. You just get content out, get people to buy in, and then iterate. As long as you keep the game fresh and evolving people will keep following and the depth of the game builds over time.


Like MechWarrior?


MechWarrior Online is the perfect example of a company that is completely clueless about how to deal with its customer-fan base, even more so considering it was almost impossible to burn the amount of trust and passion that was coming by default with the MechWarrior license. They started in pole position but forgot to start the engine.

The problem with MechWarrior Online is that they arguably haven't released any new content in a year, and that's because the two biggest major updates are so much work (apparently, for them, according to them) that they have been putting all resources into that and refuse to release that content until it's all done. So while at some point, all of a sudden, big miracle Community Warfare+Interface patch will happen and MWO will probably face some new popularity, they are guilty as of now of NOT releasing nearly enough content for people to buy in and keep the game fresh. The fact that MechWarrior isn't dead yet and still has lots of people playing it, with so little content and features, is a testament of how good the core game is (if you are into that), but PGI seriously proved to be terrible at prioritizing and understanding the fan base. So terrible.

I know you know, I just gave your reference a little bit of context for those who don't follow.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 20, 2013, 10:33:05 AM
Caterpillar ship now available in the Pledge Store...

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/109-drake-interplanetary-caterpillar-lti

...if you have € 180 ($225) to spend (nah) :grin: :why_so_serious:

Quote
Designed for supporting pirate operations, the Caterpillar features a large cargo hold for carrying loot, heavier armor than other freighters in its class and room for five crew able to serve in boarding operations. Despite its heavier armor, the Caterpillar isn’t a bulldog… a succesful operation will require a fighter escort.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on September 20, 2013, 10:39:27 AM
Only true believers allowed on that page.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on September 20, 2013, 11:00:32 AM
I thought you were joking Pennilenko, then I realized I am a faithless gaijin and I m not allowed in the temple during functions.

Jesus Christ Roberts! Also readable as Jesus Christ, Roberts!

:oh_i_see:

 :facepalm:


(Fake edit: I actually can access that page now, but I am not sure if it is because I already spent money on the game or just because you need to be signed in and I wasn't).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 20, 2013, 11:42:04 AM
looks like they're having problems with the servers: I just read that the funding counter went up almost $50K in the last hour  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on September 20, 2013, 02:42:18 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/7xCdyjx.png)

I realize this is beating a dead horse. But good god, 225$ for some pixels. I think even if I had the money I would feel vain spending that instead of donating it to to something ilke Médecins Sans Frontières.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on September 20, 2013, 03:27:58 PM
Think I'll buy Skyrim DLC instead thanks.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on September 20, 2013, 05:43:37 PM
That's a really popular ship despite the price too.  I played some EvE with goonswarm so I'm keeping an eye on the SA thread which has a public spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...hJYmhFSVE#gid=0) (google makes you log in to see google docs though).  SA probably has a higher number of people who would spend crazy money on a virtual ship but still, there are 535 people on the roster and 140 constellations.  It is the most popular ship...

Image for people who don't have google:
(http://i.imgur.com/nZzuC3E.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on September 20, 2013, 05:45:00 PM
sigh


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on September 21, 2013, 02:26:18 AM
I fear the future because this game (or lack thereof) might bury space sims again.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on September 22, 2013, 01:03:45 PM
I fear the future because this game (or lack thereof) might bury space sims again.



The insane heights to which this campaign has gone and the intensity of interest and investment in it by the gaming community means that the outcome will be ... incredibly important to the future of crowdsourcing in general, to say nothing of space sims


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on September 22, 2013, 01:13:07 PM
I predict that Roberts and company will deliver a reasonable, decent, space sim. It will not have all of the features promised. It will make the $40 dollar and under backers happy. It will disappoint the $41 to $75ish backers. Any backer over $75 is going to be a seething ball of nerd rage.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on September 22, 2013, 01:32:40 PM
No you stop that right now. this game is going to be worth as much as it would cost to fill your hangar with every ship, you plebeians.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on September 22, 2013, 06:50:54 PM
I predict that Roberts and company will deliver a reasonable, decent, space sim. It will not have all of the features promised. It will make the $40 dollar and under backers happy. It will disappoint the $41 to $75ish backers. Any backer over $75 is going to be a seething ball of nerd rage.

That's actually an optimistic scenario. A more pessimistic one sees those who spent over $75 as the happy ones and those who spent less unable to keep up.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on September 22, 2013, 07:18:35 PM
This is not going to be important to the future of crowdsourcing at all. Zero, none. It will languish, forgotten. Remembered only be the worst of sci-fi neckbeards.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 23, 2013, 03:17:44 AM
Meanwhile, they're slowly making progress on toilet usage. Real poop as 24M stretch goal?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QAHAKEzKsdo


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Dark_MadMax on September 24, 2013, 04:01:13 AM
I predict that Roberts and company will deliver a reasonable, decent, space sim. It will not have all of the features promised. It will make the $40 dollar and under backers happy. It will disappoint the $41 to $75ish backers. Any backer over $75 is going to be a seething ball of nerd rage.

Kinda doubt .... if you back kickstarter with more than $100 you are either insane fanboy or insanely rich  and  much more often  BOTH.  In fact  they probably already got their money worth in the form of brochures and wild fantasies


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: dusematic on September 24, 2013, 06:16:14 AM
Eh, two video games is $120.  This guy iisn't some complete unknown.  If this is your thing, then I can see it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on September 24, 2013, 10:01:10 AM
Eh, two video games is $120.  This guy iisn't some complete unknown.  If this is your thing, then I can see it.

This sentiment is the reason that I feel that my prediction is reasonable and the likely outcome.  I definitely am not hating on the big spender, I probably would to if I could spend the money.  However I just can't see them hitting some of the big promises with their budget.  I still think we are going to get a decent single player game and probably an at least semi playable multi-player experience.  It is reasonable to assume that from his history and some of the stuff he says that Roberts can at least deliver a good portion of what he is talking about.

Edit: Also, I am tired of doubting and hating on every single thing as if it is the only vogue option for treating new things and ideas.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pezzle on September 24, 2013, 10:12:28 AM
What gets me is the additional buy in prices.  Is there a space demo, or a video of the game actually being played at any length in space?  There is no game but how about another round of expensive additional ships?  What comes next?  $400 fighter wings?  I am leery of this project and the ability to deliver. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on September 24, 2013, 10:16:40 AM
What gets me is the additional buy in prices.  Is there a space demo, or a video of the game actually being played at any length in space?  There is no game but how about another round of expensive additional ships?  What comes next?  $400 fighter wings?  I am leery of this project and the ability to deliver. 

There are a few videos out there of actual flying, but pretty minimal, and not really gameplay.  My worry is the same as yours basically.  I want this game to be everything it says it is going to be, I just have a hard time believing it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on September 24, 2013, 10:18:14 AM
The scary, or maybe good who knows, part is that as soon as they will release a 5 seconds video of the actual game being played they will instantly rack up another 50M or so.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 24, 2013, 10:47:27 AM
Edit: Also, I am tired of doubting and hating on every single thing as if it is the only vogue option for treating new things and ideas.

 :thumbs_up:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on September 24, 2013, 10:52:38 AM
Edit: Also, I am tired of doubting and hating on every single thing as if it is the only vogue option for treating new things and ideas.

 :thumbs_up:

I'm not doubting this because its a new idea.  I'm doubting this because every game that has promised a living breathing sandbox in the last decade has failed to deliver. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 24, 2013, 11:12:43 AM
I think we'll finally get a longer glimpse at dogfighting on the one year anniversary of the crowdfunding campaign (10th October). Plus, if you still haven't , you're still in time to shell out $40 (€32; "digital mercenary" package) and get access to alpha/beta (which also includes the standalone "modules")  and see for yourselves when the dogfighting module comes out (still planned for 2013).  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on September 24, 2013, 02:15:50 PM
Question, because it kinda relates to the house buying nonsense in Shroud of the Avatar:

Are y'all paying into this because of personal game play desires? Or is it because you're hoping for an early land rush that inflates resale value of whatever you're buying?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Merusk on September 24, 2013, 03:00:08 PM
Edit: Also, I am tired of doubting and hating on every single thing as if it is the only vogue option for treating new things and ideas.

 :thumbs_up:

You have to earn respect when all preceding shops in your field have shit the bed or failed to deliver on any of their promises.  This is doubly-so in game development where 'professionals' routinely act like man-children with no sense of scope or ability to deliver on even the least of promises.

It isn't hating on something or acting trendy and vogue to say, "fuck that's a lot of promises that are not being delivered, shown or even outlined beyond a paragraph a hopped-up high school senior could write."  The bigger the promise, the more proof needed, to paraphrase.

Nor is it hating on to say, "fanbois will fund whatever it is that might fill that particular need hole."  Con artists have done that for centuries.

If it were a design document or a conversation or even a pitch with no promise, ok.  When you're actively selling shit to the tune of millions of dollars with no demonstrable product?  Yeah, you're going to get rightfully squeezed.  Put up or shut up.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 24, 2013, 03:36:11 PM
Question, because it kinda relates to the house buying nonsense in Shroud of the Avatar:

Are y'all paying into this because of personal game play desires? Or is it because you're hoping for an early land rush that inflates resale value of whatever you're buying?

I have loved Chris Roberts games since I played the first one, especially Privater and Freelancer. I have been looking for modern rendition of them for decades now. I don't spend my time in games worrying what others have. The description of this game is where I thought freelancer would go, it almost did. So I'm more then willing to spend a few bucks to fund it. Hes got a proven track record.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on September 24, 2013, 03:38:32 PM
I'm going to take the underdog, unpopular position and say that this will be a good*,✝ game.

* Good game wherein the only other similar game to compare against is EvE.
✝ Good game only when compared to other MMOs, which are 90% worthless disasters.

This will be as good as EvE within two years after its launch.  "That's a very low bar you're setting Miasma", yes I agree.  On the other hand EvE is the worst MMO I have ever played and also the only one I have ever purchased three accounts to run concurrently on for years...  It is hard to explain.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on September 24, 2013, 03:40:24 PM
Have they explained how the money is being spent, and what's the timetable, and how well the actual development has stuck to that? I'm far too lazy to search myself.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 24, 2013, 03:42:33 PM
Have they explained how the money is being spent, and what's the timetable, and how well the actual development has stuck to that? I'm far too lazy to search myself.

Yes. But no spreadsheet for you to look at, no. If you pay attention to the updates, and developer posts they do talk about where the money has gone. I linked a while ago some info about the motion capture.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 24, 2013, 04:14:28 PM
Question, because it kinda relates to the house buying nonsense in Shroud of the Avatar:

Are y'all paying into this because of personal game play desires? Or is it because you're hoping for an early land rush that inflates resale value of whatever you're buying?

I echo what Bloodworth posted in relation to your question. I just want to fund the game because I think Chris Roberts will be able to deliver about 90% of what he's promising. Personally, I couldn't care less about having those ships in advance, especially because anyone will eventually be able to earn them in-game; but hey, through them (with the related packages) you're funding the game, so why not? They look pretty  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on September 24, 2013, 04:35:28 PM
I have loved Chris Roberts games since I played the first one, especially Privater and Freelancer. I have been looking for modern rendition of them for decades now. I don't spend my time in games worrying what others have. The description of this game is where I thought freelancer would go, it almost did. So I'm more then willing to spend a few bucks to fund it. Hes got a proven track record.

Cool. I kinda wish I still had any level of faith. But I do like they've raised so much money that if they do decide to go to a publisher, they've got a lot more valuable proof of interest to show for it than some quantitative polling :-)

I've long wanted someone to get take this kind of game seriously. It''s been so long since anyone has. I'm glad people are so willing to fund it. Gives me hope I can reap the rewards of their faith. I'll happily cheer their huge ass ships from my piddly runabout if they helped fund something I love but had too little faith to take a bet on :wink:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 24, 2013, 05:04:45 PM
There is a bit of a misconception going around about the "stretch goals".

The original plan was to raise 2 million using crowd funding, and use the number of people pledged, and money to secure funding to 23 million. Using a publisher, or investors.

Now, additional funding is out. They have no need of a publisher or investors. Its completely funded by pledges ( You are pledging when you "buy" ships, you are not buying ships per say )

However, in both cases, and from day one, the "design doc" has not changed or added anything. I think its the term stretch goals that is the issue. Nothing, at any milestone they have announced, was not originally planed under the first funding plan, well before he even made the original pitch at GDC. Nothing new has been added. All items were already budgeted according to RSI. Obviously details in prices and such can vary and no budget can ever account for everything, including savings.

Now, you could argue that that doc as a whole is ambitious, and you will get no argument from anyone, including RSI. But there is no Feature creep. According to RSI.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on September 24, 2013, 09:42:31 PM
This is not going to be important to the future of crowdsourcing at all. Zero, none.

I genuinely can't see how it wouldn't!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on September 25, 2013, 06:05:28 AM
Sam: this will have no impact on crowdsourcing in general. Maybe it affects the next former space sim developer who tries to sell a decade-old experience to develop a new space sim. But that's only if it targets the very same people inspired by this particular game. :-)

And thanks for the clarification BW.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Dark_MadMax on September 25, 2013, 07:37:18 AM
Eh, two video games is $120.  This guy iisn't some complete unknown.  If this is your thing, then I can see it.

Like I said before giving money on kick starter is essentially funding their projects at your expense. its brilliant buisiness model - all the money they got have no strings attached, if they make any profits its all theirs. if they fail -well tough luck,its still not their money. It makes no sense whatsoever   - unless that end user is actually emotionally invested in it and doesnt care about financial side at all (e.g a fan)

The project looks like it has potential to rake in tons of cash with already solid fan base and actually competent development team. If anything I would be jumping to buy the shares of Roberts company (if it was public) as it is its pretty stupid to give more free money to him so he can potentially make even more profits . this game is not a pipe dream projects - its a business


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on September 25, 2013, 07:52:43 AM
It's a business where everybody wins if it turns out to be good. I happily exchange money for fulfilling digital fun.

If it turns out to be shitty, well, we are the only one losing and that's why I am happy to fund it but I refuse to overfund it *at this stage*, based on nothing but words.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on September 25, 2013, 08:09:05 AM
My problem is that Kickstarter is at its heart 100% exploitative, and the larger a project is, the less likely it is that the people behind it aren't aware of it and using it as leverage.   


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 25, 2013, 09:12:50 AM
Chris Roberts will make a special appearance during today's AMD GPU 14 Product Showcase, which will be livestreamed on Youtube in about 2h50m:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13281-AMD-GPU-14-Product-Showcase-Livestream

Direct link on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHfmM6QYWNM

On the forums, one of the Devs said:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/916393/#Comment_916393

Quote
Let's just say all our offices have been working hard to support this presentation.

Maybe just a new trailer, or finally a glimpse of real gameplay, involving the "baddies" of the SC universe (at least in the single-player campaing), the Vanduul, given that yesterday the event was announced by another newspost containing a couple pieces of Vanduul concept art:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13280-AMD-Livestream-And-Press-Roundup


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on September 25, 2013, 04:49:05 PM
So this seems to be the new video revealed at the AMD thing. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0tLbWv5K60)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on September 25, 2013, 05:13:14 PM
So this seems to be the new video revealed at the AMD thing. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0tLbWv5K60)

Seems to mostly be a remix a previously-released videos?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 25, 2013, 05:31:46 PM
Yeah, it's basically a remix plus the takeoff of the Aurora spaceship and some very brief space footage of it from an "external" cam.

What's more interesting is the fact that during the presentation Roberts said that they will soon (on 10th October) reveal a lot more about the modding options of SC, which should bring a lot of life to the private servers scene.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 26, 2013, 02:45:11 PM
So, today Star Citizen reached the $20 Million pledge level, and what a coincidence: as noted by Chris Roberts in the usual "Letter from the Chairman" post, today also marks the 13th anniversary of the PC release of Wing Commander (26th September 1990).

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13284-Letter-From-The-Chairman-20-Million

Beside the new stretch goal (Facial Capture System technology), the most interesting part is about the "feature creep" concerns, that Roberts directly address:


Quite excited about the FPS part, looks likey they're going to create outsource instanced scenarios, maybe not so unlike the just announced "shiphand" missions of Wildstar (obviously without the typical MMO mechanics, I guess).

Ok, now I can't wait to show you the astonishing fishtank as soon as they patch it in  :grin: (and btw, in the final poll, I voted for Lounge, Couch/Sectional and "Paint the Walls"...yeah, I know you were very curious about it :P)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on September 26, 2013, 06:23:35 PM
So, wait, they're going to launch the game, and then continue to have additional stretch goals for fixes, patches, and expansions?  So is it subscription + stretch goal donations?  Or is it F2P + cash shop + stretch goal donations?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on September 26, 2013, 06:39:25 PM
I'm pretty sure it's them taking every ounce of goodwill and hoping people are so invested they keep paying.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 27, 2013, 04:46:48 AM
No subscription, it's a model akin to GW2, but also with the addition of the single-player (that you can also play multiplayer/co-op) campaign, "Squadron 42". There is also at least one extra SP campaign planned, like in the old Wing Commader games (shorter than the main one), but I think it won't be free once the game goes live. There will be a cash shop as well.

Personally, if the game is successful enough, I think they will just keep donations open even after launch.
---

Nice piece of concept art (planetside station), I hope there will be a in-engine version :)

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/v48kjlj7va8wgr/post_section_header/GossII_Cassel_Landing_02.jpg)

The ships should be the Avenger (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/199-aegis-dynamics-avenger) (left) and the...Hmm, Origin 325a (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/176-origin-325a-fighter) (right)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yegolev on September 27, 2013, 05:16:18 AM
I've kept donations open since my launch, but I don't get many contributions.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 27, 2013, 06:53:10 AM
You need to post a sizzle reel. duh.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 27, 2013, 07:11:02 AM
Star Citizen - A promise  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRAt8tg-8co&feature=youtu.be)

Fan Explanation of why he backed.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 27, 2013, 12:33:23 PM
Wingman's Hangar ep040 . September 27, 2013 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBAb-lska_I&feature=youtu.be)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 30, 2013, 09:10:20 AM
So, one of the latest news post on the official site caused a lot of fuss on the official forums and beyond. It's a clarification about the currently available "game packages" and how they (will) relate to your character in-game. It's quite an important read for anyone interested in the game (or just in the development process) :

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13288-Multiple-Package-Clarification

In short, 1 package = 1 character . You'll have to shell out more money if you want to obtain the "privilege" of having ALTs on the same account. Through the in-game store/cash shop (called "Voyager Direct") they'll eventually let you buy a "basic" character slot, wihout money or ships. There is also the whole "crewmen" aspect that will play a part in all of this (again, read the above mentioned post when you have 2 minutes)
------

It's an evolving situation, at least as far as "clarifications" go, infact Chris Roberts posted a couple follow-up messages (also recommended):

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/936613/#Comment_936613

Then, this one:
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/937387/#Comment_937387


So, cash grab or not?

Well, personally, taking into account the "whole picture" of the project, I don't think so: currently, if you purchase the lowest package ("Digital Scout"), and if you believe in their assessment about the possibility of earning anything else in-game (in due and longer time, of course), you get:

- Full single player game
- Full Star Citizen

In other words, for 30 bucks you purchase two games, both not exactly a short 8 hours experience, so in the end I find it acceptable. The sandbox element is also another thing to keep in mind: it means not necessarily staying behind the so called "leveling" or economic curve (yeah, beside the fact there won't be levels) even if you consider yourself a "competitive" type of player, so you should find some enjoyment for quite some time before shelling additional money through the in-game shop or other external purchases.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on September 30, 2013, 09:56:00 AM
You don't understand:  without alts, you cannot transfer your shit over, TO KEEP IT, when you decide to recycle your character and start a new one from scratch cause you don't like your face or you don't like the last choice you made in your career or whatever.

Also, I thought the quote said $60 from EA for the box (single player game), so the $30 for "two games" would be on top of that, no?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 30, 2013, 10:16:29 AM
One assumes at some point you can just buy alts for your account. All this pertains to people who bought extra pledge packages, excluding add-ons, who want to roll those all into one account.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on September 30, 2013, 11:19:26 AM
For my situation, at the moment it's a good deal: my current "character" has four ships; through my account page, I can decide to redeem the credits for them (plus other items I purchased) and then proceed to buy other packages/character slots.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: lamaros on September 30, 2013, 09:42:26 PM
This thread scares me a little. It's like being on suicide watch.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on October 01, 2013, 02:22:57 AM
I need to brighten this up somehow with some well-picked gif and memes.
I'm always good with those.
Fu fu fu. :3


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on October 01, 2013, 02:49:52 AM
Shocking twist: The game is monetized as aggressively as possible.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on October 01, 2013, 05:56:18 AM
This game is now officially a textbook definition of putting the cart before the horse. Or it might be that giving Chris Roberts money is the game.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on October 01, 2013, 06:45:20 AM
Or you know, the company just wants to make sure there is a system in place that lets them all keep their jobs...

How dare those sons of bitches try to monetize their labor of love.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on October 01, 2013, 07:01:53 AM
*shrug*

If by alienating people like me they make more money from the ones who are left, then more power to them. But I'm not going to pretend I like this trend of crowd sourcing/exploitation.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on October 01, 2013, 07:14:00 AM
*shrug*

If by alienating people like me they make more money from the ones who are left, then more power to them. But I'm not going to pretend I like this trend of crowd sourcing/exploitation.



I don't see how they are alienating you.  Their monetization plan looks good to me. I don't see any problems with it, and many other box purchase no sub games games appear to have a much higher barrier to entry and are still popular.

From my perspective the only people that are mad about this are people who were planning to game the system for their own benefit or possibly screw over other players. You can't dual box Guild Wars 2 without buying another box, You cant dual box Eve without buying another client (plus you have to pay a second sub). Sure there are games out there that are totally free to play that will let you play two accounts at the same time without paying a dime, unless you know you actually want to play the game, then those games charge you out the ass for every tiny little thing you want from the game.

I'm not trying to go all rabid, because I am not all rabid, however their pay announcements aren't upsetting me because they aren't any different than what I expected. What did you think they were going to do to continue earning money to keep producing the game?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pezzle on October 01, 2013, 07:34:48 AM
Maybe people are bothered that the only functional part of this game is a cash shop.  We might want this to be the next coming of Wing Commander or Freelancer, and it may work out that way eventually.  Right now you have cash shop merchandise you cannot even play with.  People have every right to be wary.   


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 01, 2013, 07:42:16 AM
Then don't pledge? If you are in the camp of "There is no game yet" then do not pledge.

Seriously, I'm not sure what has upset some of you. Likely, none of that last announcement effects you, or would effect you. The coolest part of that article is the system that allows your friends, regardless of where they are, hop into one of your NPC crew to help out and play with you. That's kinda awesome. Everything else is just about pledge's who bought more than one package and want to consolidate.

When you create your original character, you make an alt. AFAIK, this has not changed.

Quote
When you’re happy with how you look, you will exit and return to the UEE recruitment office and officer. You’ll fill in your name on the MobiGlas form and also specify your beneficiary in case of death: this could be a family member, son, daughter, uncle, aunt or someone entirely new (although not another player character).
........
...
When a character finally does shuffle off the mortal coil, the player hasn’t lost what he has really put in the game time to build up – his ship(s), equipment and other assets. These pass to the next of kin / beneficiary. And there is a successor to carry on the family legacy or to avenge the deceased character. (“My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die!”)  This will hopefully create a competition between players to see how much they can achieve in the life span of their current characters. The ones that achieve greatness via killing a Star Citizen unique NPC or taking part in a unique event, like discovering a new jump point or system, are recorded in the Galactapedia and become part of the universe lore and history.
 (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12879-Death-Of-A-Spaceman)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pezzle on October 01, 2013, 07:46:58 AM
Then don't pledge? If you are in the camp of "There is no game yet" then do not pledge.


 :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 01, 2013, 07:53:31 AM
Then don't pledge? If you are in the camp of "There is no game yet" then do not pledge.


 :oh_i_see:

I'm sorry. People seem to forget, the cash shop is ONLY for the Persistent universe. The Cash shop is NOT the pledge packages. That's it. Star citizen will be 60$ at launch, include a single player campaign, the ability to host your own servers, and fully mod-able. If you really want a buggy, then mod it in on your own server.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on October 01, 2013, 08:31:46 AM
Seriously, I'm not sure what has upset some of you.

Personally I come upset from other gaming forums, where SC fans insist on comparing SC with whatever game the forum is dedicated to, ad nauseam.  Apologies if that anger has leaked here, in my posts.  In any case, yeah I'm not pledging and I'm waiting to see if there's a game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 01, 2013, 08:43:53 AM
Seriously, I'm not sure what has upset some of you.

Personally I come upset from other gaming forums, where SC fans insist on comparing SC with whatever game the forum is dedicated to, ad nauseam.  Apologies if that anger has leaked here, in my posts.  In any case, yeah I'm not pledging and I'm waiting to see if there's a game.

I Can't address that, but I can address this:

You don't understand:  without alts, you cannot transfer your shit over, TO KEEP IT, when you decide to recycle your character and start a new one from scratch cause you don't like your face or you don't like the last choice you made in your career or whatever.

Also, I thought the quote said $60 from EA for the box (single player game), so the $30 for "two games" would be on top of that, no?



Quote
Also to be clear when a Character Slot NPC dies, you get to create another one to take his place, much like you would create a successor in the Death of a Spaceman mechanic. If you've designated a Character Slot NPC as your Character's successor, then the Character Slot NPC becomes your player character and you can chose to have your deceased player character slot either go back into your Character Slot pool or turn him / her into a Character Slot NPC (think of it as recruiting a new team member after the death of another) (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/936613/#Comment_936613)

In many ways, it reads as the system that was in The guild 2.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on October 01, 2013, 11:45:01 AM
One of the things I'm trying to understand as this all goes on is that I don't have a sense of what this game's budget is relative to other big budget games made under the typical non-crowdfunded format.

When you come up with a dollar figure for the cost of a game like Halo 3, I'm pretty sure a large percentage of that money didn't represent what the studio itself actually got to use to make the game, and a lot of it represented things eaten by the studio or advertising, and as a result I don't know what total number of millions of dollars was used to make it, or much of any AAA game, really.

I may have heard a figure around somewhere or even here, but I don't recall. And now I get to compare that versus 20 million bucks or so, and I want to get a good sense of if this is a huge budget for a game or not when you aren't dealing with publishers or advertising, and if it gives me a better sense of what amount of their scope creep is sane or feasible, at least according to their pocketbook.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on October 01, 2013, 12:13:01 PM
I think Witcher 2 was around the 20 million level.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 01, 2013, 02:51:21 PM
Interesting four page interview over at Gamasutra, where Chris Roberts talks about crowdfunding and what it meant for the planning stages of SC and onward. He also reflects about his past experiences at Origin (and with EA)

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/200998/chris_roberts_on_star_citizen_.php


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on October 01, 2013, 07:13:34 PM
I'm not trying to go all rabid, because I am not all rabid, however their pay announcements aren't upsetting me because they aren't any different than what I expected. What did you think they were going to do to continue earning money to keep producing the game?

They already collected far more money than they said they needed to make the game. Why do they need to continue "earning" (lol) money? The game isn't even released and it's completely paid for. The way most games work is that you spend money to make the game then you recoup that money in sales - they've recouped all the money they plan to spend already!

As far as expectations - you expected an in-game poster to cost like $5? Literally a single 2D texture? And I thought packs of character skins for $5 was bad. Makes horse armor look like a great bargain.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on October 01, 2013, 07:30:36 PM
One of the things I'm trying to understand as this all goes on is that I don't have a sense of what this game's budget is relative to other big budget games made under the typical non-crowdfunded format.
....
I may have heard a figure around somewhere or even here, but I don't recall. And now I get to compare that versus 20 million bucks or so, and I want to get a good sense of if this is a huge budget for a game or not when you aren't dealing with publishers or advertising, and if it gives me a better sense of what amount of their scope creep is sane or feasible, at least according to their pocketbook.

Development money on a AAA title can run from 20-100 million, with sometimes that same amount or more for marketing.

It depends a lot on the game and the studio. Gears of War is made for relatively cheap, but Epic doesn't factor in the cost of Unreal Engine development into that.

I think $20 million is enough to make a AAA space game - making space look good is a lot easier than making almost anything else look good, given that space is empty and you can lean heavily on textures, lighting and particles without having to model much. I suspect the FPS portions will be lousy as they seem to believe they get a good FPS out of the box with CryEngine. They acknowledge that the FPS needs content but they appear to be underestimating the amount of non-content-modelling work needed to make a good FPS like AI and overall design - you can't just slap new models into CryEngine and call it a day.

Ubisoft spends a lot of money on Assassin's Creed but the last one was still a mess - money doesn't make project management easier or make expanding scope simple to deal with. (GTA Online is falling over right now I believe) Trying to create a AAA single-player Space game and a AAA persistent server-hosted space game and FPS and all that stuff is going to be hard to wrangle, regardless of budget.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: lamaros on October 01, 2013, 09:29:39 PM
As for the 'just dont pledge then' comments: just because I've not gotten ripped off personally doesn't mean I'm a heartless dick who likes watching others get ripped off.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 02, 2013, 07:04:45 AM
They already collected far more money than they said they needed to make the game.

This is incorrect.

Quote
Some Citizens have asked if $21 million will mark the end of the funding campaign and the stretch goal unlocks. The answer is no: For a couple of key reasons –

The first is that the goal of achieving $20M in development funding will actually be reached approximately at $23 million in funds raised. This is because we display the gross amount of funds received, but out of this we had to pay Kickstarter (approx. 10% of funds raised), Paypal/Credit card providers (approx. 4-5%), we have to reserve the fulfilment costs of the physical goods you have pledged for (over $1M right now) and finally the costs of building and maintaining the RSI site (which is a significant but very worthwhile investment, more so as some of the planned features like “organizations” rolls out).

There are also additional running costs beyond the development to be contemplated – customer support for the growing community, the cost of delivering terabytes of data and longer term hosting servers for the dogfighting and then later the persistent universe itself. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13266-Letter-From-The-Chairman-19-Million)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Dark_MadMax on October 02, 2013, 10:37:06 AM
Shocking twist: The game is monetized as aggressively as possible.

which is good thing.... - means they have people with actual brains thinking about business side ahead of time. Seriously everything in this project looks peachy - they got a lot of free $$$ from kickstarter, what they showed so far is quite impressive (for tech demo stage). All that is left is slap together an actual game and a few centrally hosted multiplayer lobbies.... TADA. come one people 3d space sims aint  that hard to make - they been doing them  on 1/100 of SC's budget.  world of tanks I hear making lots of dough and they didnt have free 20 mills 3 years before release


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on October 02, 2013, 01:22:56 PM
yeah AFAIK they're very upfront about how they have created a game from and for the crowdfunding.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on October 02, 2013, 02:09:10 PM
Quote
All that is left is slap together an actual game and a few centrally hosted multiplayer lobbies.... TADA.

  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on October 02, 2013, 02:13:27 PM
All that's left is Step 3 in:

1.  Advertise plans for game.
2.  Get funding.
3.  ? ? ?
4.  Profit!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on October 02, 2013, 03:00:58 PM
A. come one people 3d space sims aint  that hard to make - they been doing them  on 1/100 of SC's budget.  world of tanks I hear making lots of dough and they didnt have free 20 mills 3 years before release

How many of those space sims have the size of the playerbase Roberts' is looking for? And how many other World of Tanks are as successful? Neither is a valid frame of reference. Heck, most of the allure of this project is precisely because it has no good frame of reference in the modern era.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on October 02, 2013, 06:58:55 PM
They already collected far more money than they said they needed to make the game.

This is incorrect.

No, it's quite correct. The original highest stretch goal was 6 million dollars. For 6 million dollars they should have been able to deliver everything promised in the original KS - that's how KS operates.

Saying that you need more because of Kickstarter's cut and fulfillment costs is not how Kickstarter works, those are known costs that are supposed to be factored into goals in the first place - the stretch goal is a gross goal, not a net one. The whole point of a stretch goal is "if we reach this much in pledges we deliver this" not "if we reach this much in pledges we fall 10% short because of the KS cut." So I'm supposed to believe that every KS that comes in exactly on-goal actually falls short?

The fact is they got 3 times the money they asked for.

So let me ask you Bloodworth - when they hit 21 million, which is actually 23-24 million, which I'm sure is somehow actually 25-26 million ("we didn't factor taxes and renting office space into the goals!"), THEN are they going to be done? Or will he write another letter about hidden costs they didn't factor in?

Let's get real, they are going to keep discovering costs and features they didn't plan for into infinity, because it's free money and they aren't going to turn down free money. But that doesn't change the fact that they've far surpassed the amount of money they said they required to make the game.

Quote from: Dark_MadMax
which is good thing.... - means they have people with actual brains thinking about business side ahead of time. Seriously everything in this project looks peachy - they got a lot of free $$$ from kickstarter, what they showed so far is quite impressive (for tech demo stage). All that is left is slap together an actual game and a few centrally hosted multiplayer lobbies.... TADA.

They hit their funding goal about a year ago now (mid-November) and they have made about 5% of the progress required to deliver the full game. They have a cash shop (something with no mechanics) and a basically static room made in CryEngine, along with some bad animations. The business side is not the concern here, no.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 03, 2013, 07:49:23 AM
Quote
His plans started before Double Fine's Broken Age -- then known as Double Fine Adventure -- set a record on Kickstarter. "I'd seen what Minecraft did, and I said, 'It'd be interesting. I could probably get something out for $10 million. It's not the full game I want. And then alpha, sell it at a discount, get people in, and then finish the game off,' which was the big, full $20 million thing I'm talking about."

It was to that end Roberts began to seek investors. But when Double Fine hit it big in 2012, he shifted gears. But his original goal with crowdfunding was not to make money; it was to prove to his investors that his game would appeal to a contemporary audience.

"I was never making a two or three or four million dollar game. I was always making  $15 million game, minimum," Roberts says. "I'd lined up investors, and the crowdfunding was to validate that people still cared about space sims, or even about me, because I'd been gone for 10 years."

As it turns out that, thanks to crowdfunding, he no longer needs investors at all.

"The crowdfunding took off, and I could basically have more features than I wanted in the initial game, so the scope grew to what I'd always wanted it to be if I had an unlimited budget. And that was it."
Source (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/200998/chris_roberts_on_star_citizen_.php)

Oh noz!

As far as continuing to seek funding from players. Who cares, if the game is fun, I hope its funded and expanded for a long time. I do not understand your trying to paint this as a bad thing. They have been very open about all of this, Including what the hanger is (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13214-Letter-From-The-Chairman-The-Hangar-Module), you are not uncovering some grand conspiracy.



As for the "No game play footage". I don't know what you people are talking about.

Star Citizen - Gameplay (GDC 2012)  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92rb-8mYHE0&feature=youtu.be)

Star Citizen Galaxy Map WiP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cLeXj4p03k&feature=youtu.be)

Star Citizen - Early work in progress - AI Combat (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y2cKSUNkVA&feature=youtu.be)

Star Citizen Gameplay Video: Pilot AI: Formations WIP (http://vimeo.com/53321312)





Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on October 03, 2013, 08:56:46 AM
It isn't that there is "no" gameplay footage, it is that there is VERY LITTLE gameplay footage.  Even in the videos you linked there is barely any actual gameplay.  There was a bit of flying around and shooting, that's good - we need to see more of that stuff.  The map looked interesting but there isn't really enough context.  The AI stuff is nice, but isn't gameplay.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on October 03, 2013, 09:19:38 AM
I think there is nothing that could upset Bloodworth or make him suspicious about the direction the game is going. It is awesome because it makes you feel good, it gives you something to look forward to. At the same time it tends to fog your vision.

What's the point to reply to Margalis with some recent statements from Roberts himself? He can say whatever he wants at this point to corroborate his campagin and make things look the way he wants them to look, can't he?

Anyway, you can keep posting all the old-scripted video you want, but it is still a fact that there is nothing that proves this game will be good or simply not plagued by many unfun things. Now, we are all cheering for this to be a blast (seriously, some of us NEED a new Elite/Wing Commander/Freelancer), but there really is not enough authentic evidence as of yet that tells us if this is going to deliver. So at least you could stop trying to convince others that there this is a safe bet, because it isn't. Let us worry and complain, let us question the process and the intentions. Don't try at all costs to convert us to see that Chris Roberts is so virtuous he's unable to lie or immune to greed. Let us be f13, right? You might laugh last, and we'll laugh with you if that is the case.

And just to clarify, of course, do whatever you want. I am just a bit confused by your hardcore white knighting _at this early stage of development_. Game isn't even out, or even remotely close to being out, or close to be in beta, or close to be in alpha... how can it be defended yet?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 03, 2013, 09:50:43 AM
I think there is nothing that could upset Bloodworth or make him suspicious about the direction the game is going. Anyway, you can keep posting all the old-scripted video you want, but it is still a fact that there is nothing that proves this game will be good or simply not plagued by many unfun things. Now, we are all cheering for this to be a blast (seriously, some of us NEED a new Elite/Wing Commander/Freelancer), but there really is not enough authentic evidence as of yet that tells us if this is going to deliver.

That's not true. I have expressed my concerns already, im inline with most people really. Game could be great or shit when it hits the road, I'm out a small acceptable cost.  I just don't understand the hyperbole. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, said that before. But I will correct misinformation. There is enough Evidence, released daily, that this is not a scam as some imply. Weather the game will live up to people expectations is not what some of proposing here. That jury's out. If you feel it will be unfun or not be good, do not pledge. Thats the advice I give everyone. Those of us who wish to fund the chance of a great sandbox game created by someone who practically invited the genre, have pledged. I don't think anyone who has pledged is under the impression this will be robot Jesus to all people. Its a niche title. Even Chris Roberts has said so.

Quote
Anyway, you can keep posting all the old-scripted video you want

None of that was scripted.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on October 03, 2013, 10:35:26 AM
To be fair, I don't see people saying this is an out and out scam.  People are saying he is taking advantage of the system by aggressively monetizing absolutely everything at this point.  That seems true to me.  I personally don't fault him for that though, if people WANT to pay him that much by all means let them.

More common still is the criticism that all in all there isn't a lot known about what it's going to be like to play this game and that pretty much all sandboxes have been let downs.  If someone wants to risk 50 bucks or 100 bucks or whatever on that, it's ultimately up to them.  But you can hardly fault people for saying that spending a lot on this project seems a little crazier even than is normal with alpha funding campaigns.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 03, 2013, 11:10:21 AM
I don't disagree with any of that. Personal choices. But no, some have been trying to posit that, I guess, he should have stopped at 2 million? Because, like, its fair or something? I don't know. A game like this is never done, nor should be. Its a crowded funded game, when the crowded no longer wants it, it will stop being funded.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on October 03, 2013, 12:14:40 PM
As far as continuing to seek funding from players. Who cares, if the game is fun, I hope its funded and expanded for a long time.

The game is not fun, nor does it even exist at all.

I have no problem with people paying for something fun. That's not what is happening here. I'm generally opposed to "founders packs", pricey pre-order packages, lifetime subscriptions and other things designed to extract large amounts of money from people before they can evaluate the quality of the product, because frankly it's a shitty practice and is bad for the industry in the long term.

Whether or not these sorts of schemes are "scams" they are schemes designed to maximize risk and potential massive disappointment for consumers by taking advantage of the fertile imaginations of those consumers, while ensuring that companies that make big promises are well-rewarded even if they create lousy games. The final quality of the product becomes almost irrelevant compared to the quality of the pitch.

I mean, you could put like a $200 starter pack for the shitty Marvel Diablo game - a game that should cost maybe $20. You could buy a lifetime sub for a variety of shitty MMOs. These sorts of moves are often a hedge against internally-projected mediocrity. Charging someone $200 for Smurfberries in a shitty iPhone game or $200 for a spaceship in what turns out to be a mediocre space game is a good way to slowly drive away an audience.

Call me old-fashioned but making a good game then having people who want to play it pay for it is a pretty cool system with a lot of positive attributes like encouraging good work and discouraging bad work.

Quote
Star Citizen - Gameplay (GDC 2012)

This is not gameplay. There is no game and no play. If you brought this to a pitch meeting as a prototype you would be told to get real.

That said, maybe it will be awesome, who knows? It's certainly possible. But asking for vast amounts of money up front for promises is not a good practice IMO. And this has gone far beyond the typical kickstarter - I mean they have a cash shop where you can pay real money for a single texture but your ship can't even leave the ground.

Let me put this another way - if Dead or Alive 6 came out as a cash shop where you could buy swimsuits and put them on mannequins but there was no fighting engine we'd probably all have a good laugh. Because that would be ridiculous.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 03, 2013, 01:03:27 PM
What are you talking about? The controller was in his hand, he was moving the character, climbing into ships, flying the ships shooting the guns. That's not core game play of a space sim?  You are right though, the project is still in its funding phase. To me, you are not "buying" ships, you are funding the game. I know the practices you are talking about, like when never winter online sold Drow. And in that regard I am right there with you, but I think its a personal valuation. I had no intrust, or faith to spend that kind of money. I have said before my reasons for personally backing this project, he has a track record of making some of my most beloved games, and has basically made this title before. Its up to the individual to make the call. If anyone is on the fence, you should likely just wait till launch. It will be 60$. I personally would rather talk about news and info coming out of the development than this, over and over again.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on October 03, 2013, 01:10:34 PM
What are you talking about? The controller was in his hand, he was moving the character, climbing into ships, flying the ships shooting the guns. That's not core game play of a space sim?

His ship sat there in space and rotated occasionally. It's "gameplay" in the same way that a animated gif of Ryu's idling animation is "gameplay."

No game was being played. There was no objective, there was no enemy - there was no game.

The core game play of a space sim is not staying still and rotating, then showing guns firing at nothing from a third-person camera. (Although to be honest that's pretty close to how Wing Commander played)

The last 2 minutes or so was the only part that had anything approaching game play and it looked very rudimentary and/or not operational. It looked like he was flying though a set-piece with little to no meaningful interaction with it.

Quote
I personally would rather talk about news and info coming out of the development than this, over and over again.

Most of the news coming out is about new stretch goals, new funding milestones, the cash shop, changes to the cash shop, damage control on pricing, etc. And the cash shop is development - it's the most functional part of the game right now.

I get what you're saying but they have put the monetization front and center by choice. When I go to rsi.com the first thing I see is another KS project! (The fuck?) The "comm" page is a Kickstarter project, lore shit, multiple packages explanation, more lore shit, funding goals, meet a team member...not much of the communication is about the core game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pezzle on October 03, 2013, 01:11:30 PM
Even worse, we have no mannequins!

I just want a quality spaceship game like Freelancer that I can put on a private server for friends.  Not interested in insurance fraud stuff.  Not interested in the $200 persistent universe cash shop stuff.  Not interested in the FPS.  Not interested in the functional toilets.  

Unfortunately, it is the things I do not want that are getting coverage.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 03, 2013, 01:33:38 PM
Here, I'm just going to pass along some tools to keep track of development.

This, is a Dev tracker that pulls from the Forums. The developers post daily and discuss things with players constantly.

http://partedveil.com/

If you want things more compartmentalized, go here to this section:  Ask a Developer! (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/categories/ask-a-developer) The schedule is posted at the top of the page. They are all on there daily as well.

There is also the twitter, if that's your thing: https://twitter.com/RobertsSpaceInd

Engineering is the section you want for technical aspects. https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering

Also remember, every Friday is wing mans hanger, where they answer questions directly from users, and have a guest developer every week.  (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVct2QDhDrB0sipIorv4skO-XR8bAO7Pp)

I get what you're saying but they have put the monetization front and center by choice. When I go to rsi.com the first thing I see is another KS project! (The fuck?) The "comm" page is a Kickstarter project, lore shit, multiple packages explanation, more lore shit, funding goals, meet a team member...not much of the communication is about the core game.

See above. More info than i have ever seen about a games development is posted by the developers themselves. The stuff on the front page is just that, front page stuff.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on October 03, 2013, 01:42:54 PM
I get what you're saying but they have put the monetization front and center by choice. When I go to rsi.com the first thing I see is another KS project! (The fuck?) The "comm" page is a Kickstarter project, lore shit, multiple packages explanation, more lore shit, funding goals, meet a team member...not much of the communication is about the core game.

Nope. This is incorrect again.

I have the page open in another tab.

The top item is KICKSTARTER: GOLEM ARCANA.

Maybe I'm lying and it's actually "A detailed breakdown of space combat encounter design." If only it were possible for any person to go to the web page and check for themselves!

Quote
The stuff on the front page is just that, front page stuff.

I was under the mistaken impression that things go on the front page because they're considered important and represent things they want players to be aware of and discussing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on October 03, 2013, 01:47:03 PM
This, is a Dev tracker that pulls from the Forums. The developers post daily and discuss things with players constantly.

http://partedveil.com/

From your handy link:

Quote
When we started our characters we were only around 7 or 8 million in funding. So we started building with that in mind. Now that we have far passed anything that we have expected and we are at over 20 million in funding we are revamping our character design and face system.

But Bloodworth, I thought the plan all along was to make a $20 million game? And that even if they didn't raise 20 million through crowdfunding they would raise the rest through investment? So why did they target their character pipeline for a $7 million budget then revamp it when they hit the goal they were planning for from the start?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 03, 2013, 01:48:14 PM
I provided you tools to follow along. Enjoy.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on October 03, 2013, 01:51:14 PM
I provided you tools to follow along. Enjoy.

I asked you a straightforward question.

Is there a handy tool I can use to get you to answer?

Quote from: Bloodworth
The original plan was to raise 2 million using crowd funding, and use the number of people pledged, and money to secure funding to 23 million. Using a publisher, or investors.
...
However, in both cases, and from day one, the "design doc" has not changed or added anything.


Quote from: A developer dude
When we started our characters we were only around 7 or 8 million in funding. So we started building with that in mind. Now that we have far passed anything that we have expected and we are at over 20 million in funding we are revamping our character design and face system.

Hmm...so nothing changed, and they were planning on 23 million all along, and the pipeline changed, because they raised more than they expected, even though it's still less than what they were originally planning on...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 03, 2013, 02:03:58 PM
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13284-Letter-From-The-Chairman-20-Million


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on October 03, 2013, 02:31:04 PM
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13284-Letter-From-The-Chairman-20-Million

Just saying "it's not feature creep" doesn't make it not feature creep.

Not only are they adding new systems they are redoing already implemented ones. That's feature creep.

If they honestly believed they were going to raise $23 million from a publisher they would have budgeted that way from the start. (Let's be real - that was never ever going to happen)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 03, 2013, 02:33:56 PM
Hehe, interesting conversations going on (I already expressed the "why's" I spent that much money, no matter the still aleatory nature of the project), but like I said before, can't wait for the even more interesting ones that will take place in two or three months when the dogfighting module (both PvP and against AI) comes out, even if, just like the hangar, it's going to represent just a single "slice" of the cake.

It will be an unbalanced, laggy triumph, with droves of fans expressing their rage no matter how many times you put on the "reminder: just a pre-pre-alpha!" label. Goood times ahead, yep, you'll get all the gameplay you want (while not being the whole picture)  :)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on October 03, 2013, 02:52:09 PM
I hope this game succeed, space shooters are awesome and an under-represented genre.

That being said Mrbloodworth's posts remind me of Butters from South Park. So innocent and trusting!  :heart:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: lamaros on October 03, 2013, 07:45:01 PM
Quote
Schemes designed to maximize risk and potential massive disappointment for consumers by taking advantage of the fertile imaginations of those consumers, while ensuring that companies that make big promises are well-rewarded even if they create lousy games. The final quality of the product becomes almost irrelevant compared to the quality of the pitch.

In a nutshell.

At least I realise the $500 (What...) I put into Hex I know is as like to be a huge disaster as not. That some are throwing more money into things like this with the idea that it's going to be a great game fait accompli is the worry. Delusional people respond poorly.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 04, 2013, 06:40:46 PM
This is awesome: (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13302-CitizenCon-And-MobiGlas-Concept) ( Check the other screenshot too )

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/16dmsuvkbfjf9r/source/Mobiglas_extras1.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on October 04, 2013, 08:19:06 PM
I like it. :) Reminds me of the classic Privateer.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 05, 2013, 08:35:41 AM
That image invokes some cool thoughts in my head about landing somewhere, going to the bar and scanning the room for criminals. Also feels like a clever way to make the GUI not consume your screen all the time.

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/p6w5aa4c4oqi8r/source/Mobiglas_extras2.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: KallDrexx on October 05, 2013, 10:38:59 AM
This is awesome: (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13302-CitizenCon-And-MobiGlas-Concept) ( Check the other screenshot too )

I wasn't aware concept artwork was considered screenshots.....


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 05, 2013, 10:44:36 AM
My bad.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Hoax on October 07, 2013, 03:49:51 AM
This whole process as it continues to drag on and more shit is sold and more features are added (hella feature creep saying otherwise proves how blinded you are by your investment btw) makes me want to play this game less and less.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: lamaros on October 07, 2013, 05:32:29 PM
If only ideas and concept art and imagination was actually a game...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 08, 2013, 07:49:28 AM
$21 million reached, "Salvage" mechanic is in:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13305-Letter-From-The-Chairman-21-Million

Next stretch goal (22M) is a technology one, the "Facial Capture System":

"Facial Capture System. We’ve researched a technology that uses a series of cameras to capture real heads and import them into the game. This will let the team more easily create a variety of realistic characters. In addition, the technology is mobile enough to allow us to take it on the road and capture select fans during special events! You can learn more about this technology at Infinite-Realities (http://ir-ltd.net/)."
---

As described in the Letter From the Chairman link, the 23 million goal sounds VERY cool, because we'll get quite a different looking ship that will require a different approach when it comes to maneuvers (some little more details about this in the Letter)

Quote
Xi’an Scout Unlocked! The Khartu is the light attack craft of the Xi’An military. Contrary to Human ship design, the Khartu doesn’t have a traditional main thruster, instead featuring an array of maneuvering thrusters on articulated rigs. This design allows for incredible agility, making them the bane of UEE pilots, who bestowed the nickname ‘Quark’ because when all of the thrusters are firing, the ship looks like a spark flying through space. The Xi’an Aopoa corporation also manufactures an export model, the Khartu-al, for sale to human civilians as a dedicated scout/explorer. The export model features the same Xi’an maneuvering rig, but control surfaces modified for human use and a more limited armament. (Designer: Aopoa)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on October 09, 2013, 11:01:28 AM
This whole process as it continues to drag on and more shit is sold and more features are added (hella feature creep saying otherwise proves how blinded you are by your investment btw) makes me want to play this game less and less.


You're in luck! It won't be playable until your grandkids are ready for it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 09, 2013, 03:10:02 PM
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13310-Citizen-Con-2013-Live-Stream

1 year anniversary livestream will start tomorrow (October 10th) at 6.30pm CST; it's expected to last about one hour and unveil some new stuff. They will probably stream on twitch, and directly link it to the game website. Anyway, this should be the channel on Twitch:

http://www.twitch.tv/roberts_space_ind_ch_1

Is your wallet ready?  :raspberry:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on October 10, 2013, 12:01:54 AM
For this? I'll wait for a digital sale when it's playable.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on October 10, 2013, 07:31:14 AM
Heh, releasing the game would be anticlimactic; it appears profitable to just have a 2-4 year string of stretch goals and talking ABOUT the game, then switch to 4 years of stretch goals for version 2.0 or the sequel or whatever, and just keep on going, with the aim to release whatever version is perfect.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on October 10, 2013, 10:30:56 AM
I think smerek dmart already tried that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on October 10, 2013, 12:55:25 PM
Can someone, like Lucas or Bloodworth, explain this to me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QW-LWr5ycNM) and reassure me that Star Citizen REALLY is not turning into Scientology (You know, brain washing video sessions and all that)?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 10, 2013, 01:31:11 PM
That appears to be a test. The stream does not happen for another 3 hours.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 10, 2013, 02:19:24 PM
That appears to be a test. The stream does not happen for another 3 hours.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on October 10, 2013, 03:08:40 PM
 :tinfoil:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 10, 2013, 03:28:45 PM
 :cthulu:

Livestream link on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8HvfFCysYU

Looks like they'll be on air a little earlier (30 minutes as I write this), while the actual "event" will still start half an hour later.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Dark_MadMax on October 11, 2013, 12:29:14 AM
f13 like to hate (no surprise there). Healthy skepticism is one thing  but blind jealousy is negativity is another. This game looks very very promising, more promising than most other things actually . It  appears  good vision, good funding ,good art direction and modellers,  sane goals (their scope is actually not that big and they smart enough so that they are making lobby based game with central database instead of worldly MMO) , good technical side (all the things they revealed so far are good  that is hangar demo and website itself (which is bigger part of the project than many here think))

Now having said all that -this is just a project in development. There is a LOOOONG way to go before it can actually become a finished product and all kind of bad things can derail it. From what I seen I am convinced enough in its success though that if I could I would invest in it. However giving them free money in form of kickstart/buying merchandise is just that- "giving them free money".  These guys are poised to make a boatloads of cash if they succeed. If they dont - well they not losing much either.  However if they succeed that might actually prove that crowdfunding is viable for large projects without direct investors involvment.
except in this case shareholders are not getting anything in return and its done over the internet


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on October 11, 2013, 01:21:41 AM
jealousy

You keep using that word but I don't think it means what you think it means.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on October 11, 2013, 03:03:18 AM
And for another 10 million, we'll bring in Mark Hamill and Kevin Conroy.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 11, 2013, 03:50:10 AM
So, the livestream quality during the event was awful, very choppy, but now you can see the recorded version in all its glory:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5YJDOwil0k

It lasts for 1h 22m.

Highlights:

- The first 10 minutes is basically a recap of the first year;
- Then, they proceed presenting their internal team, split by departments (design, programming, art). Starting roughly at 20:56, you can see a lot of very cool outfit concept art for the various careers. The second "Female Bounty Hounter sketch" is  :drill:

- First look at Gladiator (bomber ship) concept art, now on sale, along with the other (heavy) bomber the Retaliator (shown later in the stream), also on sale 'til monday; the former costs $150 (€120), the latter $250 (€200) ;

- After that, the next several minutes (starting at about 29:08) are dedicated to the various studio partners that cover planetside art, planetside in-engine integration, environments, web infrastructure. We get a glimpse at a lot of planetside locations, internal environments where you'll find the markets, lounges and so on. Looks like they're knee-deep in pouring out a lot of them.

- One of the most interesting part start around 45:05. During the web team presentation, we get a first look at how SC "Organizations" (Guilds) will work outside the game. Then, they actually go in detail during the event, starting at 48:46. It looks AMAZINGLY detailed, with great potential ;

- Then, The Next Great Starship (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/contest/the-next-great-starship) competition (there's a video at the provided link) ;

Quote
Creating ultra-detailed spaceships is the heart of Star Citizen’s development.

From concept to final texturing, a ship can take teams of expert designers months to create
the level of graphical fidelity and detail that have become hallmarks of the Star Citizen universe. Now Chris Roberts and his team of visual designers are looking to the community for the next great team of ship designs.

16 Finalist teams exit one by one until there is one Grand Prize winner honored with the addition of their spaceship into Chris Roberts’ new space epic, Star Citizen. Not to mention a $30,000 cash prize, a swag of other goodies and the first winning ships off the production press for each team members’ Hangar!

Whether or not you participate, subscribe to RSI’s YouTube channel to watch the drama unfold and see who can build Star Citizen’s Next Great Starship.

The weekly webcast show will kick off with sixteen finalist teams at 11am PST on January 31st 2014, which is when the specs will be released to each team for the main challenge; The Next Great Spaceship!

These sixteen teams of finalists will have to conceptualize, design, model, animate and rig their model while submitting their progress for weekly review by a panel of science fiction’s leading concept artists, designers and celebrities, along with the man himself, Chris Roberts.

Each successful challenge, takes you one step closer to the grand prize. Failure means you go ‘home’. In the end, the last two teams will be flown to Los Angeles to compete live in front of the judges and the community on June 8 2014, for the grand prize: $30,000, their ship incorporated into the Star Citizen universe, cool swag, and the title of...

The Next Great Starship.

- Erin Roberts (Chris' brother, who worked with him back at Origin on the Wing Commanders and Privateers and also on Starlancer at Digital Anvil) has joined Cloud Imperium, and will oversee the new team in Manchester, which will primarily engaged in the single-player game, Squadron 42  (1:04:48 - 1:07:30) ;

- Another look at the Hangar Module (1:08:09 - 1:11:50), specifically at the latest iteration (will be patched later today), where we'll be able to try out one of the privateer outfit, take a look at the recently implemented fish tank but, most of all, the Avenger ship, finally in-engine, and it looks VERY sleek (looks like I'll have to wait some more for my Origin M50 :/ ) ;

- Last but not least, Hornet brochure and commercial announced!! The video was shown and, along with the brochure, it will uploaded later today on the website. Beside the currently available Hornet, they're going to sell its variants too. From what I read, the version of the commercial is still not the final one, but it already looks fantastic  :drill:  (1:16:30 - 1:20:06) .

Whew, that should be it :)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 11, 2013, 07:59:40 AM
Youtube shut down the live stream due to them singing "Happy birthday".  :oh_i_see:


The presentation came off to me as more of a stock holder update, which, I guess is appropriate.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Merusk on October 11, 2013, 09:07:53 AM
- First look at Gladiator (bomber ship) concept art, now on sale, along with the other (heavy) bomber the Retaliator (shown later in the stream), also on sale 'til monday; the former costs $150 (€120), the latter $250 (€200) ;

I'm going to be over in this corner.  It'll look like I'm laughing, but I'm really crying that I didn't think of this scam first.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on October 12, 2013, 01:45:30 PM
One hour twenty minute live stream with no gameplay to speak of. But hey, here are new ways you can spend money!

Sounds about right.

Quote
The presentation came off to me as more of a stock holder update, which, I guess is appropriate.

Makes sense because when you "invest" you get stock!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Velorath on October 12, 2013, 03:12:49 PM
So, the livestream quality during the event was awful, very choppy, but now you can see the recorded version in all its glory:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5YJDOwil0k

That shit looks like an Amway meeting.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on October 13, 2013, 09:24:04 AM
That shit looks like an Amway meeting.

But 400€ for hopes, feels really really strange disturbing even to me. At this rate, we might as well give Scientology a try. Have you heard about their sci-fi vision of the universe? It is no less ambitious than Chris Roberts', and apparently makes you feel really happy after you've spent enough money on it.

(http://i.imgur.com/iJbtCAK.jpg)

Almost forgot, "How to fake you are nice and caring". (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFqJHlR7xVQ) Even the lighting is oddly similar. Weird choice for a videogame presentation.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on October 13, 2013, 03:19:13 PM
I'm definitely going to get my money's worth on this game.

Because there's so many people hellbent on investing far more than the game's experience could possibly be worth, just to start with some otherwise perfectly attainable shiny.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 14, 2013, 06:29:27 AM
Some news from the weekend:

$22 Million reached (now halfway to 23, the Xi'an alien flyable ship) :

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13317-22-Million-And-Hangar-Patch-Live
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals

So, here's the 24 Million stretch goal:

Quote
Public Transportation System – Need to get from one place to another but don’t have a starship? We’re building a galactic transportation system. You can travel via transport from system to system in Star Citizen and even ship items (like a ship you need moved to another hangar.) With this stretch goal, we’ll expand this system: star liners, long range transports, charter ships and flyable shuttles!

I think it's going to be a mixture between automated flying paths (the whole "gettin' into the transport" part will be done just for immersion/RPG sake) and manual flying, as hinted by the last part of the sentence ("flyable shuttles"). Regarding ship items, I think that the basic system works in a way that, if you leave stuff around you have to go back and forth between planet/systems in order to recover it (overloaded cargo bay, multiple ships, etc.); with the Public Transportation system, you might be able to move your things around while being in a single place (but, who knows, itmight take real time hours, not unlike some Eve mechanics).

- In other news, the new Hornet brochure, sale and final cut of the commercial video have been moved to next friday in order to polish everything up:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13314-Happy-Birthday-Star-Citizen

Quote
Last night, I showed a preview of the Hornet commercial. I explained that this release wasn’t just coming in hot, it was laser-scorched and burning. In fact, we downloaded the cut of the commercial you saw as I was presenting. I was expecting to release the finished commercial and brochure today, along with a promotion putting Hornet variants on sale. Unfortunately, they just aren’t ready yet. I want the Hornet release to be perfect, with a proper sound mix in the commercial and Hornet variants you can immediately interact with in your hangar. That won’t happen if we rushed to get them out today, so I’m delaying the Hornet release until next Friday. Check back then to learn all about the best dogfighter in the UEE fleet. If you would like to see the unfinished commercial, it will remain available in the recording of last night’s event; an improved version with enhanced audio is coming soon.

New Aurora (SC "entry" ship) variant on sale (along with simple upgrades for anyone who previously purchased another Aurora Model): the 2944 Legionnaire. Video:

http://vimeo.com/76735257

Aurora pledge section:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/aurora


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on October 15, 2013, 05:22:32 AM
Does anyone have a link to the unfinished Hornet video?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 15, 2013, 05:57:39 AM
Does anyone have a link to the unfinished Hornet video?


Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN5qK78xY9Y


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on October 15, 2013, 07:28:32 AM
Does anyone have a link to the unfinished Hornet video?


Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN5qK78xY9Y

Thanks

I can see why people were unhappy - where was the dog fighting?!

Vid can be summed up as 'stupid Aurora pilot is stupid'


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 15, 2013, 08:06:01 AM
Yeah, in terms of production and impact the 300i commercial is the best.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 15, 2013, 08:29:37 AM
I agree, although the latest Aurora LN commercial is very good too: yes, simpler, less atmospheric or luxurious, but very appropriate for a "basic ship", with a nice mix of sound effects, background music and narration.

Regarding the Hornet commercial, yes, the main gripe is how it shows the ship not giving a damn about the Aurora chasing it (umm, but maybe that's the point?), while you would expect some pew pew from what it's being sold as the mainstream fighter  of SC (on the other hand, the recently released "Avenger" will be the first ship we're going to use in the single-player campaign).

Unfortunately, I'm not really sure they're going to change the cinematic at this point: it might just be a matter of adding sound effects, some more lazerz, background music and a bit more narration. But hey, it would be great if they add a more chaotic scene.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 15, 2013, 08:40:30 AM
The direction they are going with shield Visuals is interesting.

(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/19378qbb36fsqgif/ku-medium.gif)

(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1937bxcsxj8qwgif/ku-xlarge.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on October 15, 2013, 09:56:11 AM
I am still not that concerned with the stretch goals and endless crowd funding drive. I feel that it is a pretty safe assumption that I will at least get my 40 bucks worth from what ever game ends up coming out.  I do feel bad for the people with hundreds or thousands invested. I am not sure if any game that ever existed or will ever exist is worth that type if investment with no financial return.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on October 17, 2013, 06:14:43 AM
I think many of them have already rationalized it to themselves knowing that their funding is primarily based around a desire to fund the game well beyond the basic level, as opposed to considering it a worthwhile ingame investment. They'll probably just be generally happy with their LTI.

Of course, there will always be those people who sunk a thousand dollars into the funding for a collection of ships and will have their dissonance fold in on them like a warp in simultaneous four-day creation, causing them to bark at everyone on the forums about how you are educated stupid.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Dark_MadMax on October 17, 2013, 07:52:52 AM
I am still not that concerned with the stretch goals and endless crowd funding drive. I feel that it is a pretty safe assumption that I will at least get my 40 bucks worth from what ever game ends up coming out.  I do feel bad for the people with hundreds or thousands invested. I am not sure if any game that ever existed or will ever exist is worth that type if investment with no financial return.


And thats a very healthy approach. Its like a very very early pre-order :)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on October 17, 2013, 08:13:31 AM
And thats a very healthy approach. Its like a very very early pre-order :)

In the interest of being truthful, I only put in 40 bucks so I could play with the alphas of the single and multi-player. Something is broken in my head that causes me to like playing things that are under development.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 17, 2013, 08:41:06 AM
Tomorrow, if everything goes as planned, CIG (Cloud Imperium Games) will release the Hornet Brochure and commercial, so there will be another spike with the pledges and alpha slots will diminish drastically (currently, there are 8,408, no wait, 8,407...dang, wait, 8,406  :drill: slots left).

If you are interested in signing up for alpha before they run out of places and you still haven't found the courage to do so  :why_so_serious:, this would be the right time: it's unclear what is going to happen when the counter reaches zero: resets to 108?  :grin: , or perhaps they'll activate the "beta slots" one ? or they'll finally reveal what this experiment in mental control crowdfunding is really about :P . Anyway, They might also write up a post on this subject later today or tomorrow, I don't know.

- Like I wrote in a earlier post, Alpha also means access to the standalone "modules" (actually, they consider SC alpha and Squadron 42 alpha, the "proper" products, as modules too, I think) ; testing access is guaranteed, but honestly I don't know if it's guaranteed on first day (they might split the slots up in "waves" for certain, bigger  modules and tests, like the upcoming dogfighting one).

Register on the website here:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/connect ("enlist now")

Then (Store ---> Pledge section):

- If you want to have alpha and standalone modules access (and of course beta and subsequent releases), you need to pledge for the "Digital Mercenary" pack ($40 - €32) :
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/69-digital-mercenary

- If you want access the standalone hangar module, but without being able to get access to any other module or alpha or beta test, you can pledge for the "Digital Scout" pack ( $30 - €24)
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/68-digital-scout

There is also a "Civilian" entry ($10 - €8), but I think you can only visualize it once you are logged in the website. Here's the description:
Quote
Not ready to enter the galaxy just yet, but still want to show your support? The Civilian package gives you access to limited forums and deeper areas of the RSI site. The credit can be upgraded towards a game package should you decide to join Star Citizen!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 17, 2013, 09:27:51 AM
And thats a very healthy approach. Its like a very very early pre-order :)

In the interest of being truthful, I only put in 40 bucks so I could play with the alphas of the single and multi-player. Something is broken in my head that causes me to like playing things that are under development.

I Paid $125.00 (I did an upgrade from a lesser package), so I could start with a two man ship, and because I wanted to back the project. That's the extent of my pledges.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 18, 2013, 01:04:33 AM
23 Million reached. As Roberts previously wrote in a post, this is the rough amount he planned for SC in ordered to be considered "fully funded" by the community, including the KS/Credit Card/Paypal fees the company will have have to dish out:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13324-Letter-From-The-Chairman-23-Million

Quote
Our unlock for this level is the addition of a Xi’an scout plane. The goal here isn’t simply to add an extra ship to the game, but to add a new type of ship which can be expanded upon as we go. Once we’ve put the effort into building an alien experience for the Khartu, we can apply it to other Xi’an ships moving forward. Essentially, the extra funding lets us build an even more immersive universe.

Which, in the (very) distant post-launch future, may hint at the possibility of making the Xi'an (and the other alien species of SC) playable.

24 million is the PTS (Public Transportation System) mentioned in a earlier post; 25 Million:

Quote
Enhanced Alpha – We will use additional funding to build a wider alpha test than we had originally intended for the first phase of Star Citizen’s launch. The initial plan was to first launch servers in North America and then expand to areas such as Europe and Australia to decrease latency in these areas, perfecting the game as we improve the experience around the world. This funding will allow us to invest in a wider infrastructure for our early testing, spinning up remote servers earlier. Hitting this goal will also allow us to increase the number of remaining alpha slots. Extra alpha slots not only means more Star Citizens will travel the ‘verse at launch, but that we will receive more feedback and more stress testing. This in turn will allow us to better balance and enhance the Star Citizen experience!

I guess that answers my earlier doubts about the alpha slots counter  :grin:
------

Two more items:

-  On October 25th, they will start recording music for SC and S42 with a 75-piece orchestra located in the Czech Republic (it was the 6M stretch goal):
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/65877/6-000-000-stretch-goal-orchestral-score-recording-scheduled

- Through the "Ask a Developer" forum section, one of their designer, Pete MacKay, shed some light on how the ship power system (and the related distribution among sub-systems) currently works (you have to be at least registered on the website in order to read that forum section):

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/1084743/#Comment_1084743

Quote
In our game power is a pull system, rather than a push system. Instead of telling the power plant to push more power to shields, you tell the shields to request more power from the power plant. So, power management is more about setting minimums for each device.

For example: Say you're running your shields at 80% to try and minimize your signature as you fly through known pirate space. Meanwhile your power plant is maxed out providing power to the rest of the ship. Suddenly you're attacked so you set your shields to 100%. The shield generator asks the power plant for the extra power, but the power plant cant give it without taking power from some other ship system. The last time you were in port you set a minimum on your thrusters that allow for maximum maneuvering, but your minimum on your weapons system is only half of what you need to operate them at max, so the power plant automatically redirects power from your weapons to your shields, leaving the power flowing to your thrusters untouched. If you still don't have enough power (and you're already at the minimums on all of your other systems, as can happen if you're running an under powered power plant) your shield generator will be starved and will be unable to meet your request. Sorry captain, its given you all shes got!

Hmm, isn't that how power management works in FTL?

Oh, and finally, you can now buy GOLIATH MOUSE PADS  :why_so_serious:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/goliath-mousepads

Full-res of the art:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/xc5zbyt2kpdhir/source/RSI_goliathmousepad1.jpg
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/ryphbgpvujg1hr/product_thumb_in_description/Anvil_goliathmousepad1.jpg
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/fygakrvjj6wtpr/product_thumb_in_description/Origin_goliathmousepad1.jpg


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on October 18, 2013, 05:30:35 AM
To me, the power thing sounds like everyone will try to have a big enough power plant to run everything at 100%, thereby bypassing the whole "request more power" and "pre-programmed minimums" gameplay.  I guess it also depends on whether running 80% shields (or anything) is really worth it, or pointless.  Do the pirates fail to detect you at 80% shields?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on October 18, 2013, 12:44:03 PM
Powerplants are going to probably have huge displacement and mass issues, and probably also significantly impact your signature with the more powerful it is.

Individually I would make it so that there's more or less a general field of 'sweet spot' where increasing powerplant for your weight class beyond a certain point (towards a hypothetical "oh it powers literally everything 100% all of the time") is either too much of a sacrifice for maneuverability and/or signature, or possibly progressively more and more costly beyond the realm of sanity. Or some combination of both.

It would incentivize you to take a powerplant that forces you to juggle your subsystems if you want better performance overall, which is more rewarding in the sense that it's fun and sim-ey and you get to do more as a pilot — as well as that you get a better designed machine out of the deal.

And additionally it allows you to be a chowderhead if you don't wanna juggle power levels, just by buying stock ships for chowderheads that have a huge cheap powerplant in it to do all the basic stuff at once without making you worry your lil' head off about it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 18, 2013, 04:29:56 PM
Hmm, I think I understood, like, 3% of your technical jargon, Samprimary, but it sounds cool  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on October 18, 2013, 06:09:24 PM
Play more EVE?  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 19, 2013, 09:05:56 AM
A few things came out last Friday.

2944 Aurora brochure (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/bos6n1wm4e42dr/source/Aurora-Brochure-2944-V8.pdf)

Also, the "Lore Builder" program was started. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/13327-LORE-BUILDER-RACING)

Quote
Hello and welcome to the first installment of LORE BUILDER, where we pick an unexplored aspect of the Star Citizen lore and develop it with the community’s help.

Not released on Friday, but a few days earlier was "Jump Point: Marine & Rifle WIP" Discusses some design and technical challenges for player models.

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/d8u3imag3j4j5r/source/JumpPoint_01-08_A_Few_Good_Men-V28.jpg)




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on October 21, 2013, 06:05:20 AM
Hanger module hacked https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX48u3SmzCg


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 21, 2013, 06:30:51 AM
Last friday's "Wingman's Hangar" was mainly focused on the single-player campaign, Squadron 42. The team recently organized a few internal focus meetings about it (plus, the newly announced "Foundry 42" team in Manchester will take the head role in producing it), so while a lot of things are still up in the air, more and more stuff is being finalized.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHD5f1p6EOM

The conversation about S42 runs from around the 6:55 mark (with a quick review of the Manchester studio announcement); the actual Q&A session starts at 9:48 and lasts 'til the 30:20 mark.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 22, 2013, 10:16:12 AM
Hornet commercial is now available (just watch it in 1080p) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0gZES2pTWk

DAMN, NOW WE ARE TALKING  :drill: :drill:

And here's the pledge page with all the hornet variants:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/hornet

The Specter  :drill: :drill:

Brochure:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/e89t7l6bef97hr/source/Brochure-Hornet-V8.pdf

 :heart: :heart: :heart: (but no, won't buy any...Hey, why are you laughing?!  :why_so_serious: )

Quote
Greetings Citizens,

We are very excited to premiere the finished Anvil Aerospace Hornet commercial today, as well as the Hornet brochure. For those that caught a sneak peak of the Hornet commercial at the Citizencon event: you haven’t seen anything yet! The civilian version of the UEE’s venerable F7A Hornet, the F7C Hornet is a dedicated dogfighter capable of tangling with mercenaries, pirates, Vanduul and more.

We’re pushing the limits with Star Citizen, and this commercial is our best example yet. It’s rendered 100% in-engine in real time at 4k resolution. We scale everything for the super high resolutions that will be the basis of tomorrow’s gaming experience; our assets are designed with high polycounts instead of having details baked into their textures. That’s a big part of why NVIDIA and AMD have been demoing Star Citizen at 4k! The next generation of CPUs and GPUs will make this kind of experience possible in gameplay, and we are building Star Citizen to be ready. With the Hornet commercial, we wanted to give our backers an early look. If you have a 4k-compatible monitor, select “Original” from the video settings on YouTube (or download the 4k file directly here. ) If you don’t, 1080p is highly recommended.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 22, 2013, 11:05:30 AM
Sexey.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 23, 2013, 01:37:59 AM
Unsurprisingly, the Hornet sale has propelled the funding past $24M, so here's a new Letter from the Chairman:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13334-Letter-From-The-Chairman-24-Million

Quote
Greetings Citizens,

It looks like the Hornet commercial and brochure were a resounding success; the president of Anvil Aerospace should expect a bonus this quarter! In all seriousness, the community is continuing to set funding records and is allowing us to do more with Star Citizen. At $24 million, you’ve unlocked the following stretch goal:

Public Transportation System – Need to get from one place to another but don’t have a starship? We’re building a galactic transportation system. You can travel via transport from system to system in Star Citizen and even ship items (like a ship you need moved to another hangar.) With this stretch goal, we’ll expand this system: star liners, long range transports, charter ships and flyable shuttles!

Pictured here is a monorail car, which will be used by the player to travel from place to place on Terra! A public transportation system may not seem as sexy as a new bomber or a cruiser, but it speaks directly to the goal of making Star Citizen an immersive, world-building experience. Instead of having a simple ‘fast travel’ option like an MMORPG, Star Citizen will feature a living, breathing system to support that gameplay requirement… a system that will be impacted by the economy and player actions in all sorts of exciting ways!

We’re also revealing the $26 million goal, which I think will interest a lot of players. We have become increasingly fascinating with the possibilities for larger capital ships in Star Citizen and would like to dedicate some of the additional funding to expanding their functionality:

Enhanced Capital Ship Systems – In addition to the command and control systems we’ve already outlined, we’re going to expand capital ship functions! Lead a damage control team to fight fires and repair key systems during battle, control internal bulkheads to slow boarders and man a number of consoles, like navigation and engineering, that will make commanding a capital ship feel even more immersive.
Thank you for your continued support. I hope you take as much pride as I do in the fact that you aren’t only bringing back PC games and taking a shot across the bow at big publishers, you’re taking Star Citizen to new frontiers. The team at Cloud Imperium can’t wait to show you what’s next!

Finally, one small change to the Hornet rollout. We’ve had a number of requests from backers eager to purchase the limited edition Super Hornet who will not be able to do so until the end of the month. Federal employees in the United States who are just getting back to work after the recent government shutdown are especially affected. We are grateful for your passion and would like to help however possible. With this in mind, we are going to keep the Super Hornet available an extra week through Monday, November 4th. We hope that helps give all of our existing backers an opportunity to upgrade to the F7C-M!

— Chris Roberts

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/snw0wr1kmvij7r/post/Monorail_train_concept_design_revise_1_.jpg)

The $26M stretch goal sounds like FTL: Star Citizen edition  :drill: :drill:

The current funding goal ($25M) is the Enhanced Alpha:

Quote
Enhanced Alpha – We will use additional funding to build a wider alpha test than we had originally intended for the first phase of Star Citizen’s launch. The initial plan was to first launch servers in North America and then expand to areas such as Europe and Australia to decrease latency in these areas, perfecting the game as we improve the experience around the world. This funding will allow us to invest in a wider infrastructure for our early testing, spinning up remote servers earlier. Hitting this goal will also allow us to increase the number of remaining alpha slots. Extra alpha slots not only means more Star Citizens will travel the ‘verse at launch, but that we will receive more feedback and more stress testing. This in turn will allow us to better balance and enhance the Star Citizen experience!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on October 23, 2013, 05:08:09 AM
I was planning to get a Hornet before the November deadline, now I fear I will end up with 2 (partly because theres no indication the stealth armour can be put on the Super Hornet)

My complaint about this that the new Hornet packages have a different content to the existing Hornet package (Colonel) so you actually need to buy Colonel and then upgrade the ship to get that content (which means you can't get the unique content that comes with the Weekend Warrior package


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on October 23, 2013, 11:07:32 AM
Quote
Lead a damage control team to fight fires and repair key systems during battle, control internal bulkheads to slow boarders and man a number of consoles, like navigation and engineering, that will make commanding a capital ship feel even more immersive.

*Checks off another feature in my fantasy MMG design doc that SC is actually attempting.*


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on October 23, 2013, 04:14:41 PM
I was planning to get a Hornet before the November deadline, now I fear I will end up with 2 (partly because theres no indication the stealth armour can be put on the Super Hornet)

My complaint about this that the new Hornet packages have a different content to the existing Hornet package (Colonel) so you actually need to buy Colonel and then upgrade the ship to get that content (which means you can't get the unique content that comes with the Weekend Warrior package
What is this about?  I just assumed I was good because I bought a Hornet months ago.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: lamaros on October 23, 2013, 05:13:08 PM
Quote
Lead a damage control team to fight fires and repair key systems during battle, control internal bulkheads to slow boarders and man a number of consoles, like navigation and engineering, that will make commanding a capital ship feel even more immersive.

*Checks off another feature in my fantasy MMG design doc that SC is actually attempting.*

You didn't play FTL?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on October 23, 2013, 06:01:17 PM
You didn't play FTL?

I did. If I understand your implication, the difference is that SC is multiplayer, and has 3D ship interiors. So theoretically, you could be dispatching NPC bots to bring inoperative systems back online, while enemy players shoot up the interiors of your ship.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: lamaros on October 23, 2013, 07:06:47 PM
Theoretically this will be the greatest game of all time.

But I'll stick with FTL for now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Hoax on October 23, 2013, 08:51:35 PM
Theoretically this might become a game at some point.

Fixed.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: lamaros on October 23, 2013, 08:56:55 PM
If it's green it's green, no need for a second coat.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on October 23, 2013, 09:47:27 PM
Theoretically this will be the greatest game of all time.

But I'll stick with FTL for now.

I can't wait for player housing and furniture crafting + imports.
Silver cutleries for my table too.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on October 24, 2013, 12:15:15 AM
Silver cutleries for my table too.

And double-quilted paper for my toilet.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on October 24, 2013, 04:48:28 AM
Ikea, in space. Player owned shopping malls take ur family out for shopping today at the milky way!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on October 24, 2013, 05:31:56 AM
I was planning to get a Hornet before the November deadline, now I fear I will end up with 2 (partly because theres no indication the stealth armour can be put on the Super Hornet)

My complaint about this that the new Hornet packages have a different content to the existing Hornet package (Colonel) so you actually need to buy Colonel and then upgrade the ship to get that content (which means you can't get the unique content that comes with the Weekend Warrior package
What is this about?  I just assumed I was good because I bought a Hornet months ago.

The Hornet you have is the stock F7C they introduced 3 variants. Unfortunately the Hornet specs shows for the last year on the ship spec page (which they always said were subject to change) appear to have been for the military F7A version.

Tracker: The AWACS of Star Citizen
Ghost: The Stealth fighter of Star Citizen
Super Hornet: The closest to military spec you can legally buy (has a second seat and comes with the top turret)

You really need to check out the new Hornet PDF for all the details and differences https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/e89t7l6bef97hr/source/Brochure-Hornet-V8.pdf

I had it confirmed yesterday that the new Hornet variant packages do not contain the physical items the existing Hornet package (Colonel) does and only the time-limited Weekend warrior package contains the side arm (if you care about such things) but you can upgrade your existing Hornet relatively cheaply (something like $15 if you want the stealth version).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 24, 2013, 08:04:34 AM
I think you are talking about the original backer packages VS. the new ones.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 24, 2013, 01:39:20 PM
A (just published) FAQ about the recent Hornet sale (you might find it useful, Miasma):

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13340-Hornet-FAQ


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 24, 2013, 03:50:34 PM

Also, the "Lore Builder" program was started. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/13327-LORE-BUILDER-RACING)

Quote
Hello and welcome to the first installment of LORE BUILDER, where we pick an unexplored aspect of the Star Citizen lore and develop it with the community’s help.

The SC community contributed by writing and making up profiles of past Murray Cup notable personalities (winners but not only them):

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/13339-Lore-Builder-Racing-Issue-Two (posted today)

Quote
Again, this was just a sampling of some of the great work you all contributed. We are compiling many of the entries into a master document and will hopefully be able to incorporate them into the vaults of the MCR Museum located in the city of Aydo on Green (Ellis III). There are potentially four hundred and fifty years of Murray Cup winners, so keep them coming.

Next week we’ll share some of the interesting events that occurred in the Murray Cup and start discussing the sport of the future: SataBall.

This is quite a cool collaboration between the developers and the community. From what I understand, Racing will be implemented as a proper (mini)game system;  apparently, same goes with the mysterious "SataBall".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on October 24, 2013, 08:37:34 PM
I guess the super hornet upgrade is limited and ends on monday but the other variants are permanent.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on October 25, 2013, 04:52:09 AM
I guess the super hornet upgrade is limited and ends on monday but the other variants are permanent.

The Super Hornet sale got extended 1 week (Nov 4th) due to US Government employees having only just got back to work


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on October 25, 2013, 06:10:19 AM
Tea party republicans have made many powerful space nerd enemies this day.  I mean they don't have any money to contribute to actual political campaigns since it's all tied up in virtual space ships but I can foresee several vicious reddit threads and tweets in their future!  Woe unto them.

Edit: Also the super hornet upgrade looks pretty good.  Bigger power plant, an extra seat to haul a buddy/prisoner/bounty, limited number of them and it's an actual hull change (a couple meters longer to fit the larger cockpit) so it's unlikely any other hornet could be upgraded to it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on October 25, 2013, 11:12:06 AM
Tea party republicans have made many powerful space nerd enemies this day.  I mean they don't have any money to contribute to actual political campaigns since it's all tied up in virtual space ships but I can foresee several vicious reddit threads and tweets in their future!  Woe unto them.

Could you elaborate?  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on October 25, 2013, 11:32:02 AM
I'm soooo confused... I'm supposed to pay more than a hundred dollars for a virtual ship to a game that doesn't exist yet?

Their price points seem very high. What am I getting exactly for a $150 ship?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on October 25, 2013, 12:14:09 PM
Hope, and fairy dust, and unicorns!


Also a sinking feeling that you are being fleeced.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on October 25, 2013, 12:46:55 PM
There are cheaper ships, the hornet looks like it will be the most powerful dogfighting type ship available so I guess it costs more.  There are also way more expensive ships...

For the money you get the ship (which if it is the limited edition might be very desirable), the single player game, the multiplayer game, all the unlocked rewards, alpha/beta access, the hanger mod you can download now and so on.  Most of us buying a ship now have life time insurance as well so the ship itself will be replaced at no cost once it inevitably gets blown up (the hull only not any gear you put on it).

As a side note I guess there is a way to extend lifetime insurance to others if you already have it on your account.  Something about them sending you the cost in credits and then if you (the person with LTI) buys the ship and then gifts it to them the LTI is still enabled.  You should read a proper description before trying it though.  You can also sign up to get discontinued ships if the people who have already signed up change their minds.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on October 25, 2013, 12:57:03 PM
This is either the most brilliant scam in the history of gaming or the most brilliant scam in the history of gaming.

It can only be one of those.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 25, 2013, 01:17:58 PM
I'm soooo confused... I'm supposed to pay more than a hundred dollars for a virtual ship to a game that doesn't exist yet?

Their price points seem very high. What am I getting exactly for a $150 ship?

Or, you can pay 60$ when it comes out. Cheapest pledge is about 15-30 I think. None of the ship pledges pertain to any personally hosted worlds, only the persistent.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: tazelbain on October 25, 2013, 02:14:35 PM
Too bad there is no auction house otherwise we could track dreams getting crushed in near real-time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on October 25, 2013, 03:45:05 PM
Too bad there is no auction house otherwise we could track dreams getting crushed in near real-time.
They have so many people on waiting lists for some ships, including the most expensive one (http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Idris), that the company is willing to refund your money if you change your mind since they can immediately resell it to the next person in line.

How much does that linked ship cost you ask?  Five thousand dollars.  Of course, since it's a mini carrier that can fit three other ships inside it you'd be crazy to buy it without also buying those additional ships!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on October 25, 2013, 03:49:19 PM
Are there any in game mechanics where a group of people could permanently destroy something like that? Because I will laugh myself sick doing it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on October 25, 2013, 04:02:46 PM
I think anyone who has purchased this stuff with real money has the life time insurance, so they'll get a replacement.  You can destroy all the guns/mods whatever stuff they've equipped on it forever though.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on October 25, 2013, 04:53:26 PM
Anyone who builds one without lifetime insurance can lose it forever yes, that's why some people are crazy enough to buy these now.  I'm sure most of them are EvE pilots who got blown up in a Titan when they were still new.  You can put a dollar amount on losses in EvE since you can buy in game currency for real life money from players and the cost of getting a Titan blown up back then was around ten thousand dollars (that amount would have been spread out over the entire alliance in terms of man hours though).  I don't know what the cost is nowadays but I assume they are cheaper and more plentiful.

I bet there are a lot of titan pilots who would be willing to pay that much for security.  The problem is that Cloud Imperium hasn't really finalized how insurance will work.  They have said you will get your ship hull back, but they have also said it might take a while for the insurance to go through.  Possibly the more expensive the ship the longer it will take to be replaced.  It's all theorycrafting and guessing right now.

So long as I spend less money on this than I have on HEX I'll feel okay about it.  I only have one ship right now, a hornet upgraded to super hornet.  I will probably buy a freelancer plus an upgrade when it comes out and then I'm done.  I'll have a fighty ship and a businessy/hauly ship with both those hulls insured forever and that's all I'll ever need.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on October 25, 2013, 05:29:29 PM
Do they realize that "lifetime insurance" moves the PVP game away from being like EVE (everything can be destroyed) and closer to being like WoW (your tiered gear is soulbound)?  I mean that has game repercussions beyond just what happens to the ships.  For example, can other players activate this "lifetime insurance" thing on their fallen buddies during battle, like a rez ability?  Is there a stretch goal for that?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 25, 2013, 05:55:55 PM
You can insure anything in game with in game currency, just like eve. So. no.

For example, can other players activate this "lifetime insurance" thing on their fallen buddies during battle, like a rez ability?  Is there a stretch goal for that?

No, its tied to the account/ship. In fact I recall reading a while ago. This may not still be true. But if your ship is stolen, the LTI is gone. ( Ship boarding is to be rare and an undertaking in itself )


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on October 25, 2013, 06:22:40 PM
You can insure anything in game with in game currency, just like eve. So. no.

For example, can other players activate this "lifetime insurance" thing on their fallen buddies during battle, like a rez ability?  Is there a stretch goal for that?

No, its tied to the account/ship. In fact I recall reading a while ago. This may not still be true. But if your ship is stolen, the LTI is gone. ( Ship boarding is to be rare and an undertaking in itself )

I can't wait until someone's $5000 ship is boarded and stolen.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Threash on October 25, 2013, 07:14:44 PM
There is going to be guilds dedicated entirely to doing that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 25, 2013, 07:35:40 PM
wasn't there a spreadsheet showing the goons had like, 4 of them?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on October 25, 2013, 09:46:28 PM
Four what, Idris carriers?

I checked the spreadsheet and while you can only get an Idris now with the $5000 pledge package there must have been a sale or something previous where the base model was going for a mere $1000.

The goon roster currently has 29 of them.  The total goon fleet dollar value is over $200,000 right now.  That's probably peanuts compared to the EvE fleet value but then the game isn't released yet.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 25, 2013, 10:11:21 PM
Well then.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Xuri on October 26, 2013, 02:27:40 AM
So, yeah. Turns out a black market already exists for available-to-early-backer-only digital goods.  :awesome_for_real:
Quote
Originally launched a year ago, Cloud Imperium Games’ Star Citizen went on to break crowdfunding records and continues to pull in huge amounts of money from an avid fanbase. It remains to be see whether Chris Roberts and his team can make everyone happy, but right now the operation is a wonder to behold.

However, behind the developers' ongoing crowdfunding campaign to support development, a player operated market emerged that sells in-game goods for real money. This market has aimed at circumventing certain limits while enriching the dealers both in real world and virtual currency. These dealers are capitalizing on demand for items and features removed from the regular store and are thus unavailable to new backers who arrived late to the community.
...
http://themittani.com/features/star-citizens-grey-market


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on October 26, 2013, 04:26:51 AM
EDITED: Nevermind.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on October 26, 2013, 07:55:07 AM
This whole thing is the bitcoin of MMOs.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on October 26, 2013, 11:17:21 AM
I still totally just want to purchase the game as a doodads edition. Where I get all the physical shit they send the people who spent thousands of dollars on their fantasy future potential digital pretend spaceship.

Like, the card, the little models, the fold-out felt map of the game world, the game manual I have to have for when the dockmaster on terra asks me "What be the third word on the sixteenth page of thy instruction booklet?"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on October 26, 2013, 11:20:58 AM
But I start with literally zero in-game advantage or leather seating or anything. Just the doodads.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on October 26, 2013, 11:47:40 AM
So, yeah. Turns out a black market already exists for available-to-early-backer-only digital goods.  :awesome_for_real:
Quote
Originally launched a year ago, Cloud Imperium Games’ Star Citizen went on to break crowdfunding records and continues to pull in huge amounts of money from an avid fanbase. It remains to be see whether Chris Roberts and his team can make everyone happy, but right now the operation is a wonder to behold.

However, behind the developers' ongoing crowdfunding campaign to support development, a player operated market emerged that sells in-game goods for real money. This market has aimed at circumventing certain limits while enriching the dealers both in real world and virtual currency. These dealers are capitalizing on demand for items and features removed from the regular store and are thus unavailable to new backers who arrived late to the community.
...
http://themittani.com/features/star-citizens-grey-market

Next step space prostitution?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on October 26, 2013, 12:07:51 PM
Can we just move this whole thread to the Eve subforum which is what that will become in 18 years when this "game" actually comes out and leaves everyone heartbroken?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on October 27, 2013, 02:22:40 PM
It's that time again: $25M funding reached, new letter from Uncle Roberts:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13345-Letter-From-The-Chairman-25-Million

So, "Enhanced Alpha" goal reached (along with 50K new alpha slots), FTL: Star Citizen edition on the horizon and the following new objective at $27M:

Quote
Banu Merchantman Unlocked – Banu traders are renowed for their merchant prowess, traveling the spacelanes and trading with everyone from humans to the Vanduul! Their sturdy, dedicated trading ships are prized beyond all other transports, sometimes passing from generation to generation of Banu. At $23 million we dedicated additional resources to making Xi’An spacecraft a unique experience. At $27 million, we will expand that same thinking to the Banu! Starting with the merchant ship, the design team will expand Banu technology to offer players a completely different way of experiencing their universe.

Then, the closure mentions (again) the so called "feature creep" issue:

Quote
Even though we’ve fully funded the base game, every extra dollar helps to make the experience better. The content we talk about in these stretch goals isn’t “feature creep”; it’s elements we’ve been building and planning that will be all that more impressive with additional resources. In essence, you’re putting things we’ve already discussed for the future into development now. The extra funding means we’re secure in assigning resources to go ahead and begin developing that richer content we had initially planned to fund through the game’s success upon release.

Thank you for your continued support of and trust in project. You have empowered the team to make Star Citizen something truly special… the Best Damn Space Sim Ever!

— Chris Roberts

For those wondering, here's a list of the known species of the Star Citizen/S42 universe:

http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Races

Yeah, they still have to unveil the Kr'Thak (sounds kinda familiar, uh? ;) and the Tevarin, although the latter were almost totally wiped out by the Humans.
----

The lore and backstory of SC/S42 has been told, for the most part, through a "time capsule" series which served as a "lead up" to the announcement of the project back in 2012. Here's it, if you are interested:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link?channel=&series=time-capsule&type=&text=&sort=publish_old

Read the first entry (2075) and proceed downward.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on October 27, 2013, 02:42:16 PM
Sooooo how many hundreds does it cost to get in on this Banu Merchantman business?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 28, 2013, 05:49:58 AM
$60, if you wait for launch.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 04, 2013, 08:10:48 PM
Based on an email from the SA thread it sounds as though every limited ship other than the IdrisM and Scythe will be getting a one day sale before the 26th lifetime insurance date passes, they will be releasing a schedule of when and what.

They have also been more forceful in stating that this sperging over LTI isn't worth it and that the only reason to buy ships now is to support the game and avoid grinding out some space money for a few dozen hours to buy the ships later.  LTI is not going to be that significant a cost savings and buying ships now just saves you some ingame time.

I have my Super Hornet fighter and my Freelancer serious business ship so I am mostly done, I will buy a variant upgrade for my freelancer once they come out and that's it.

Edit: Typo.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 05, 2013, 07:10:09 AM
They have also been more forceful in stating that this sperging over LTI isn't worth it and that the only reason to buy ships now is to support the game and avoid grinding out some space money for a few dozen hours to buy the ships later.  LTI is not going to be that significant a cost savings and buying ships now just saves you some ingame time.

That's how its always been really.

The best deal is the 30$ package, which saves you some real money come launch.



Also, $26 Million hit. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13358-Letter-From-The-Chairman-26-Million)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Dark_MadMax on November 05, 2013, 07:15:57 AM

Also, $26 Million hit. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13358-Letter-From-The-Chairman-26-Million)
curiouser and curiouser


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 05, 2013, 08:10:26 AM
There's just something a little bit magical about this. Not like, good magical. Like when you did a sort of a daemonic summoning and didn't think out the radius of your warding circle quite right.

A lot of these people who are going nuts and are sinking multiple hundreds of dollars into the game are impressing me with their ability to theorycraft miles of text and gooniness over the sparsest possible details of a game that is not out yet. I'm sure that roberts is legitimately glad that he's getting all this money and the studio has totally gone down the right path by successfully monetizing the promise of future fantasy starship, but reading the forums might already just scare them a little bit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on November 05, 2013, 10:53:22 AM
There's just something a little bit magical about this. Not like, good magical. Like when you did a sort of a daemonic summoning and didn't think out the radius of your warding circle quite right.

Totes, the last time I tried summoning it resulted in D3 greater daemons and 4D6 lesser daemons wreaking havoc all over the place.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 05, 2013, 11:12:41 AM
Like really I have already seen multiple instances where people who have made multi hundred dollar spaceship purchases are already FREAKING OUT about their investment by joining into colon-cleansingly pervasive theorycrafting vortex holes that indicates a.. I don't even know how to describe it, I'll call it, conceptually, a "possible potential implemented future-retroactive nerf" of their ship that hasn't been made yet for a game that hasn't been made yet that neither they nor anyone else has really flown yet.

As a specific example someone will do a 'visual analysis' of the size of ship engines in some promo pictures and do some sort of vague measurement and say it indicates that the ship must have had its engine specs toned down. And lo shall come a cry of consternation and concern.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on November 05, 2013, 12:47:53 PM
I looked at the Hornet in the store and came away confused. There's a "Ghost" and a "Specter" variant, which both appear the same and have the same description, but one costs $15 more. Likewise there's a "Tracker" and a "SWAC" which look the same, have the same description, and one costs $15 more than the other for no apparent reason.

What.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on November 05, 2013, 12:58:43 PM
First thing learned from EVE is anything that's promised to be "rare" or "limited edition" or even "different" will be valued at millions by the players, just because.  There are ships in EVE that are worse* than the "common" variant that are way more expensive.  Most of the time, though, it's just a different paint job, or maybe a camouflage overlay.

Edit:  *I think the situation was the common variant was buffed by CCP as part of their "tiericide" effort but the repainted limited editions were not.  Not sure if that's still the case.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Dark_MadMax on November 05, 2013, 02:58:41 PM
monetizing the promise of future fantasy starship

This is imho the core. Roberts knowingly or not hit the goldmine right there.  The promise of the fantasy is a powerful thing , sometimes much more so than a finished product (after all fantasy is perfect and no real life thing is)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on November 05, 2013, 10:56:09 PM
It's also the lack of any competition, the lack of any pending competition, the lack of attention this kind of game has gotten in a very long time, and the audience for such a game that has a long memory who also have a lifestyle that can afford frivolous hope-based investment.

Right place, right time, right message, right audience.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on November 05, 2013, 10:58:47 PM
Cyanide shd do this for Blood Bowl 2.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 06, 2013, 05:02:52 AM
I looked at the Hornet in the store and came away confused. There's a "Ghost" and a "Specter" variant, which both appear the same and have the same description, but one costs $15 more. Likewise there's a "Tracker" and a "SWAC" which look the same, have the same description, and one costs $15 more than the other for no apparent reason.

What.
Hmm, that is confusing.  Buried underneath a graphic you have to click on for some reason it tells you what is contained in each.  Basically the cheaper one is just the ship itself while the one for $15 more is an actual package that gives you alpha/beta, some in game credits, starts to unlock the pledgre rewards, insurance and so on.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on November 06, 2013, 06:17:43 AM
I looked at the Hornet in the store and came away confused. There's a "Ghost" and a "Specter" variant, which both appear the same and have the same description, but one costs $15 more. Likewise there's a "Tracker" and a "SWAC" which look the same, have the same description, and one costs $15 more than the other for no apparent reason.

What.
Hmm, that is confusing.  Buried underneath a graphic you have to click on for some reason it tells you what is contained in each.  Basically the cheaper one is just the ship itself while the one for $15 more is an actual package that gives you alpha/beta, some in game credits, starts to unlock the pledgre rewards, insurance and so on.

There are 4 Hornet versions

Basic - has a cargo bay!
Ghost - Stealth version with low emission systems and stealth armour
Tracker - AWACS version with uber scanning shiney
Super - 2 man, highest legal civillian spec (comes with the top turret as standard for example) - removed from sale last week.

What you're seeing with the pricing is the various ways you can purchase the ship

For people without a Hornet there are the Colonel, Spectre and SWAC packages which include the ship and the game
For people who already purchased a Colonel package there are the upgrades from the basic Hornet to either the Ghost or Tracker

The price differences between those options are to do with the loadout you get on each Hornet (you need to look at the Hornet PDF to get that level of detail) but other than that the packages will be the same


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 07, 2013, 09:41:18 AM
Stunning.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Speedy Cerviche on November 07, 2013, 10:38:20 AM
umm is that a painting or ingame footage?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 07, 2013, 10:58:29 AM
Concept painting by Elijah McNeal (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/1248288/#Comment_1248288), who I am quickly becoming a fan of.

http://elijah.cghub.com/



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yegolev on November 07, 2013, 11:04:50 AM
Are those in game pictures?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 07, 2013, 11:08:16 AM
Concept painting

This gentleman, who also works for the project, is also awesome.

http://itchynick.cghub.com/

Some others by http://hazzard65.cghub.com/



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Hoax on November 07, 2013, 11:40:08 AM
Are those in game pictures?

No but I bet they will sell them to you. Or better yet make a stretch goal where they will create more concept art, which they will then sell to you.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 07, 2013, 12:54:37 PM
Are those in game pictures?

No but I bet they will sell them to you. Or better yet make a stretch goal where they will create more concept art, which they will then sell to you.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/voyager-direct/hangar-posters


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 07, 2013, 12:58:43 PM
Yep, Please try to keep up.  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yegolev on November 07, 2013, 01:54:45 PM
Nah, I'm good. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on November 07, 2013, 01:54:53 PM
Cyanide shd do this for Blood Bowl 2.
Mantic should do this for Dreadball and take a giant dump on GW/Cyanide.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 07, 2013, 02:22:46 PM
$26MM has to be a record for not having to deliver anything.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 07, 2013, 02:27:31 PM
$26MM has to be a record for not having to deliver anything.
Not even close. (http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/11/07/twitter-shares-surge-in-a-smooth-start-to-trading/?hp)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 07, 2013, 02:28:22 PM
Twitter is less of a scam than fake spaceships.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on November 07, 2013, 04:53:31 PM
When Chris Roberts tears off his mask to reveal he is actually Brad McQuaid, the Internet will break.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 08, 2013, 12:16:10 PM
While we wait for the unmasking, here's a new interview with him over at "Rock,Paper,Shotgun" (more details about S42, dogfighting module, development schedule):

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/11/08/chris-roberts-details-squadron-42-takes-on-doubters/

About the dogfighting module:

Quote
The dogfighting module, for instance, will launch at the end of 2013 no matter what, but it might not include multiplayer until early next year. Reason being, RSI has the option of either running CryEngine’s stock multiplayer code or implementing Star Citizen’s full MMO-ready backend. At the moment, Roberts is leaning toward the latter, as it’ll allow stress testing pretty much from the get-go. So long, launch day server troubles – at least, in theory.

“That’s the decision that, if you go for the proper system, it’s much better for the game long-term,” he said. “But that means people aren’t playing multiplayer dogfights by Christmas. They’ll be able to play against AI or fly their ships around, but I think that may be the choice that I make. It’s better for the final game.”

Good enough, at least they will show that a portion of the game actually exists :P

Plus, Gamasutra just wrote up an overview of Roberts' presentation at GDC Next:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/204192/Beyond_crowdfunding_Chris_Roberts_urges_you_to_turn_backers_to_fans.php

(EDIT: LOL, just read my title for the first time...Err, thanks, I suppose  :grin: )


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on November 08, 2013, 11:07:50 PM
If only other companies had thought to test their network code before launch day, they too could have avoided launch day issues.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 09, 2013, 02:55:40 PM
If you guys were going to rank the ships, which ones are your aesthetic favorites and least favorites? I'm noting this extreme variety in what the ships look like, and some are ugly as sin (like the basic one) and others show promise.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 09, 2013, 05:49:38 PM
That's interesting, I don't think there is enough variety, they all look sort of the same to me.  They're pretty good but I haven't seen one that has really caught my eye yet.  Most people think the 300i is the best looking.  EvE had four different factions and each had its own style like utilitarian, graceful, asymetrical junkers, curvy.

They are hinting that two of the alien ships will be released on the 26th, hopefully those have completely new styles.  One might be a vertical focused ship.

Giant image of some EvE ships. (http://www.operationtrooplift.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/54378__EVE-ships-subcap-Tyrannis.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 10, 2013, 02:46:23 PM
I like the bulky MISC Freelancer, the aggressiveness (well, mostly due to its red/black combination) of the Origin 325a and, I'm very curious about the Origin M50 which, as far as I understand, it's undergoing a heavy revision. Aegis Retaliator is quite good looking too.

Not a fan of the Hornet.

I think they're trying to develop the ships so that they "make sense" and fit in how they're developing the SC universe and the ship manufacturers, not unlike today car ones (you know, some aesthetic extravaganza here and there, personalization, but nothing THAT wildly different from car to car) but they already hinted at some different and original designs when it comes to alien ships.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pezzle on November 10, 2013, 06:40:54 PM
Is PVP consensual for the public server?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 11, 2013, 04:30:46 AM
Is PVP consensual for the public server?

Still unclear.

Here's a lenghty and technical post, again by Chris Roberts, on the flight physics model of SC:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/1275295/#Comment_1275295


Follow-up posts (replying to other users):
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/1275724/#Comment_1275724
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/1275939/#Comment_1275939
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/1276033/#Comment_1276033


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 12, 2013, 04:07:37 AM
27 Million reached:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13368-Letter-From-The-Chairman-27-Million

So, Banu merchant ship unlocked, now onward to the new beginner ship, the Mustang.

29 Million goal:

Quote
We’re going to devote the $29 million stretch goal to more resources for the single player game, Squadron 42. With Erin Roberts and the other veterans at Foundry 42 hard at work on the game, you can trust that it’s going to be great. Now we’d like to give them some extra resources to work with!

Enhanced Mission Design for Squadron 42 – The team at Foundry 42 has big plans for Squadron 42, and we’re going to provide extra funding to make it a true spiritual successor to Wing Commander! Squadron 42 can go above and beyond anything you’ve seen before. From opening with an epic battle instead of a training patrol to missions that seamlessly combine boarding and space combat, we aim to put you right into the action! Additional funding will let the team realize this, with enhanced mission design and more resources and animations to enhance fidelity.

So, basically, they'll use the FPS part to its full extent in the single-player game as well: in the Wing Commander saga, you might remember some missions that ended in telling you that a "ground unit" was dispatched in an enemy base; or, for example, there was a mission in WC4 where you infiltrated a Black Lance base, but you could only watch Mark Hamill doing his thing in glorious FMV  :grin: . Hopefully, in S42, stuff like that will be much more involving and interactive :)

First look at a Xi'an capital ship concept art (see the $23M goal, although they're only talking about scout ships there):

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/wtkh4lngvoqhtr/post/XI_Capital_ship_WIP02.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Teleku on November 12, 2013, 04:51:07 AM
Man, I know almost nothing about this game or the people making it, but I feel like I should also give them money for a fake spaceship I will never see just so I wont feel left out.   :awesome_for_real:

Hmmm, what bank note should I light on fire ship should I get....


Edit:  NM, Jesus fucking christ these prices!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 12, 2013, 05:02:45 AM
Man, I know almost nothing about this game or the people making it, but I feel like I should also give them money for a fake spaceship I will never see just so I wont feel left out.   :awesome_for_real:

Hmmm, what bank note should I light on fire ship should I get....


Edit:  NM, Jesus fucking christ these prices!

Well, like myself and others previously said in other posts, you can get the simplest and cheapest (but of course it depends on your wallet) package for $40, that will give you access to alpha, beta, standalone modules and the digital version of the proper products (S42 and Star Citizen itself):

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/69-digital-mercenary


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Teleku on November 12, 2013, 05:44:35 AM
Yeah, seeing that now.  From all the chatter I thought there were all sorts of diffrent ships you could buy to get into the game.  I just didn't realize the only sane'ish package was the one you linked with that specific ship.  Seriously, how people are paying so much for just one random fucking ship which they have no idea if it will be shitty or not........

And I'm a guy who threw $500 at a fake card game!

I'll chew on it.   My prospects for this game aren't terribly high, even with the crazy fund raising.  But the idea is intreaguing, if it actually ever happens.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 12, 2013, 08:52:32 AM
The package he linked would be a discount off the launch price. Anything else, you need to really want, and really not want to play the game to get it right off the bat. All ships are able to be gotten in game, so buying something now just means you can start with that ship instead of the starting ship.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: veredus on November 12, 2013, 01:22:57 PM
Also there is the digital scout package.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/68-digital-scout (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/68-digital-scout)
Pretty much the same as the $40 package I believe but no alpha or beta access. I don't want to alpha/beta test, I'd rather just wait until it's done so that's all I bought.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 12, 2013, 01:29:37 PM
Also there is the digital scout package.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/68-digital-scout (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/68-digital-scout)
Pretty much the same as the $40 package I believe but no alpha or beta access. I don't want to alpha/beta test, I'd rather just wait until it's done so that's all I bought.

The only downside of the digital scout, AFAIK, is that it doesn't give you access to the upcoming dogfighting module either. No early pew pew for you!!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: veredus on November 12, 2013, 01:38:29 PM
Ya I know. Only thing I get early is the hangar. I'm OK with that since I really just want to play it when it's complete. Don't want to burn out on it before it's done.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 12, 2013, 05:00:32 PM
Another victim of the hype here.  :heartbreak:

Lost a bit control and went for the $110 dollar ship. Which ends up being €85. But the way I justify it is a full price game on steam costs  ~50€..., so if it was an MMO that's the box price and 3 months of subscription. Which I am going to get out of this.

Now all I need is to find an original backer who can LTI-ify my Freelancer.  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 12, 2013, 05:03:45 PM
I am an original backer. What's the LTI thing?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 12, 2013, 05:07:25 PM
Credit goes to Xuri two pages ago:

http://themittani.com/features/star-citizens-grey-market (http://themittani.com/features/star-citizens-grey-market)

Quote
However, while new backers are unable to buy LTI packages, veteran backers can continue to do so until late November of this year. This enables the process commonly described as ‘pledge laundering’ where a new player gifts an item of equal value from the RSI store to a veteran backer. The veteran backer then melts the gifted item into store credit and uses the credit to purchase the item the new backer wants. Once done, the veteran backer than gifts the new item to the new backer. There’s a lesser known bonus for the backers who pledged during the original kickstarter: lower prices on practically everything. The previously mentioned $275 Rear Admiral package only costs an original backer $250, leaving a $25 excess.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on November 13, 2013, 04:49:18 AM
I too am able to get LTI ships

Clocks ticking though - think you only have until the 26th Nov


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 14, 2013, 12:46:16 AM
More awesome concept art by Elijah McNeal (at the below link, 13 pictures), through the weekly "Meet the Staff" newspost:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13373-Meet-Elijah-McNeal



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Teleku on November 14, 2013, 02:59:59 AM
So are the LTI packages just all the same as the ones they currently offer, but with the added insurance (and possibly cheaper I guess)?  Or are there ship packages offered that are not available to the general public anymore?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 14, 2013, 03:40:59 AM
Credit goes to Xuri two pages ago:

http://themittani.com/features/star-citizens-grey-market (http://themittani.com/features/star-citizens-grey-market)

Quote
However, while new backers are unable to buy LTI packages, veteran backers can continue to do so until late November of this year. This enables the process commonly described as ‘pledge laundering’ where a new player gifts an item of equal value from the RSI store to a veteran backer. The veteran backer then melts the gifted item into store credit and uses the credit to purchase the item the new backer wants. Once done, the veteran backer than gifts the new item to the new backer. There’s a lesser known bonus for the backers who pledged during the original kickstarter: lower prices on practically everything. The previously mentioned $275 Rear Admiral package only costs an original backer $250, leaving a $25 excess.

Ugh. Sorry, no. This is so annoying even to read. I can't wait to play this game, but I haven't been so irritated at a project I supposedly love since forever.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: 5150 on November 14, 2013, 05:19:04 AM
So are the LTI packages just all the same as the ones they currently offer, but with the added insurance (and possibly cheaper I guess)?  Or are there ship packages offered that are not available to the general public anymore?

Original backers have some ship packages that are not otherwise available and there are some minor price differences on the packages that are common to both original backers and everyone else.

LTI ships have lifetime insurance rather than 'x-months-then-you-start-paying'

Roberts is trying to downplay the importance of LTI and, while I agree with him that insurance costs will probably be negligible and that players will have upgraded the ships fittings minimising the return, I think most people are wary of Eves 'lose it all' gameplay and are looking for a safety net (especially with the more expensive ships)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Tebonas on November 14, 2013, 05:37:30 AM
So helop me out here, please. I've pledged at the Digtal Scout level and ignored the whole game until now. What packages would I need to play the game without an inherent disadvantage and what packages could I give away here without it hurting my own game experience.

Once that is cleared, be free to take advantage of my kickstarting this game for your needs. I just want to play the Single Player game anyway.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Bungee on November 14, 2013, 05:54:50 AM
There are inherent disadvantages by not pledging now? I thought it's all just some cosmetic stuff, new features for everybody and a "thanks for supporting" bonus ship(s). This can't be right, no?

(I'm really only skimming here every now and then because I like me some space pew pew.)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 14, 2013, 06:20:17 AM
Guys, IMO you should stop attaching a non-existant "gameplay value" to the current purchase of ships: at the moment, this is simply about pledging, funding the game. If you're interested in helping the game as it develops (or just want to have various previews in the form of modules and traditional testing phases), pay now for pixels, otherwise just wait for release: it's safe to assume that replacing a whole ship (meaning, the hull) won't be that impossible once the game is out. Like it happens in other multiplayer games, people will manage to find some holes in the economy; also, if you have a guild helping you covering certain costs, it will be even easier.

Again, everything you see right now (especially the real money value of the ships) is there for the sole reason of propelling the funding through hype formulas (which are working REALLY WELL, yes), it's totally unrelated to the actual costs ships will have in-game (and infact, for those attaching a gameplay value to the $225 they spent for a Constellation, it will be a rude wakeup when they'll see someone getting the same ship in, let's say....3 weeks of normal gameplay or even less?)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 14, 2013, 07:08:06 AM
So helop me out here, please. I've pledged at the Digtal Scout level and ignored the whole game until now. What packages would I need to play the game without an inherent disadvantage and what packages could I give away here without it hurting my own game experience.

Once that is cleared, be free to take advantage of my kickstarting this game for your needs. I just want to play the Single Player game anyway.
I'm not quite sure what you mean.  If you have the digital scout package then you have a solid starter ship and depending on when you bought it lifetime insurance.  You don't have anything to give away.  If you are only interested in the single player game then you wouldn't really bother buying individual ships, that's mostly for the online game and even then all it saves you is the amount of time it takes to grind out the money in game.  I don't actually know if you can/would use the purchased ships in the single player game.

The digital scout does not include alpha/beta access, so if you want to fly around in a bug riddled unfinished version of the single player game you would need to upgrade to the next package level.  If you want to do so you can turn your current pledge into credits, buy the difference in credits for the digital bounty hunter package and then buy that package.

tl;dr If you don't want access to the alpha/beta you don't need to spend anymore money, otherwise upgrade to the next package level.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 14, 2013, 07:57:45 AM
There are inherent disadvantages by not pledging now? I thought it's all just some cosmetic stuff, new features for everybody and a "thanks for supporting" bonus ship(s). This can't be right, no?

(I'm really only skimming here every now and then because I like me some space pew pew.)

There are no real advantages/disadvantages between the ships. LTI, will likely save about 1-300* credits every once in a while.

*Adjust for whatever prices the economy ends up being. 500 or 5000.

AFAIK, you play through the single player like wing commander, military provides ships for missions. Then, you retire ( Or skip single player altogether ) out to the persistent world with what ever ships you have. If none, the aura is the starter ship ( with one other being developed ). So, in my case ill start with an aura and a freelancer.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pezzle on November 14, 2013, 08:18:42 AM
My concern is LTI making insurance mandatory for you online players.  Ganksquads of LTI ships running around blowing up or taking whatever they can on disposable characters.  It may all be handled in a way that eliminates the issue, but I have seen no evidence that suggests it yet. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 14, 2013, 08:25:26 AM
Insurance is said to be just like in Eve. Everyone can buy it in game, everyone should. AFAIK, you can insure: The hull ( LTI only insures the hull ), the cargo, the mods on the ship. Each can be insured independently. Some ships, can not be insured, including those that were hijacked ( Like a UEE Carrier ). And "outlaws" and "pirates" have no option to insure.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on November 14, 2013, 11:19:52 AM
Guys, IMO you should stop attaching a non-existant "gameplay value" to the current purchase of ships: at the moment, this is simply about pledging, funding the game.

I keep telling myself that, but every time a new sales pitch comes out, it's impossible to see it as anything other than a sales pitch, and so I view the offering accordingly.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 15, 2013, 04:14:02 PM
An important piece of information has just been posted on the official site: it's about the Anniversary sale period (the last LTI one for original and veteran backers) that will occur between 18th November and the 26th:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13377-Anniversary-Sale-Details

It's very exhaustive, and should also answers some of your questions about future LTI  (relative) importance and the "grey market" of pledging; on the 26th, there will be a 4-hour livestream during which the Team will update us on the game development status and, last but not least, unveil the next batch of ships (in the last few months, they announced destroyers, frigates and escort carriers, so I think we might see a bit of that).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 16, 2013, 02:05:21 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/MnVk6wZ.png)


Soo, which one of those to get? *ponder*


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 16, 2013, 03:27:23 AM
so, as standalone ships, the RSI Aurora LX will be the cheapest one, probably around $40 with LTI for new backers. For those of you already owning a different Aurora model, you'll likely be able to upgrade for a small fee.

Back in July, I paid €65 for my LTI Origin M50 (but again, as an original backer, so it might cost you more if you're new); the 350R will definitely cost more, but the package might include both.

The other listed LTI ships will be quite more expensive, starting from $150 for new backers.

I think I might give in and purchase another package, probably the (already available) SWACS one (Hornet Tracker), but I'll try to resist :P



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Velorath on November 16, 2013, 03:32:48 AM
Anniversary sale

 :uhrr:

Someone please ask Haemish to come up with a word to describe people who have a sale to celebrate the anniversary of the end of their kickstarter. "To celebrate one solid year of selling you guys extra stuff for a game we haven't released yet, we're going to give you another opportunity to buy some more stuff".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rattran on November 16, 2013, 05:51:29 AM
I think the word you're looking for comes from PT Barnum, not Haemish.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on November 16, 2013, 07:26:37 AM
I always mix PT Barnum with EB Farnum.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 16, 2013, 08:12:19 AM
Hahahahaha, oh man I love Kickstarters. It's the Lucy and the football of insane fanboism that just keeps on giving.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 16, 2013, 12:09:56 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/MnVk6wZ.png)


Soo, which one of those to get? *ponder*

The Starfarer, is a sexy beast. But I will earn that one in game, after all, I need something to upgrade to in game :) It also, is quite different then what my freelancer is for, as its all about large amounts of liquid. I See the freelancer more as general cargo.

http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Starfarer

(http://images.wikia.com/starcitizen/images/c/cc/MISC_Starfarer_90m_v01_Jumbo.jpg)

(http://static4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130630012330/starcitizen/images/e/ee/Starfarer_earlyrender3.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on November 16, 2013, 07:22:00 PM
My favorite aesthetically is probably the Caterpillar. It's (planned to be) just a larger, more ungainly, and less solo-able version of the only ship I have, though (Freelancer).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on November 17, 2013, 07:32:53 AM
An important piece of information has just been posted on the official site: it's about the Anniversary sale period (the last LTI one for original and veteran backers) that will occur between 18th November and the 26th:

Remember how I said most of the information about the game was about how you could spend money rather than about the gameplay and Bloodworth was all "nuh uh!"

Yeah. That happened.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 17, 2013, 11:01:09 AM
I would like a starfarer but I also think I'll just buy one with credits earned in game.  I like the idea of being a behind the scenes utility guy that enables the rest of my alliance to succeed.

Caterpillar does look nice, it is billed as the "evil" freelancer, it has a lot of pirate abilities.  If it weren't for the variants coming out for the freelancer I might switch my purchase to one.

The only chance they have of getting more of my money (other than the freelancer variant) is on the 26th where it sounds like they might be selling the alien ships.  I'm a sucker for vertical ships...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 17, 2013, 11:36:59 AM
An important piece of information has just been posted on the official site: it's about the Anniversary sale period (the last LTI one for original and veteran backers) that will occur between 18th November and the 26th:

Remember how I said most of the information about the game was about how you could spend money rather than about the gameplay and Bloodworth was all "nuh uh!"

Yeah. That happened.
To be fair I don't think it's like Chris Roberts has some sort of slush fund where he's siphoning off 50% of everything donated.  The money people are spending on ships will absolutely be spent on the game.  The game itself might wind up being a money pit that never sees the light of day but all that money will be burned on expenses, not hookers and blow.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 18, 2013, 12:23:36 AM
Sale has begun, with the Origin M50 now available in the Pledge store for 24 hours (midnight PST to midnight PST, 9am to 9am CET): € 64 for original and (I think) veteran backers, € 72 for new backers ($80 and $90).

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/interceptor

Quote
If you want to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible and with as much style as possible then ORIGIN’s M50 is for you. Featuring supercharged engines that counter a tiny weapons loadout, the M50 is a ship for going FAST. The core spaceframe is used by both racing teams and for military courier missions, but the civilian M50 is a luxury spacecraft like no other. Perfect for the mercenary who prefers speed over armor in a dogfight… or the weekend warrior looking to impress the ladies.

You can find much more detailed stats on the "Ship specs" page:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/ship-specs

So, what's the M50 good for? (hypothetically, of course)


For "leisure" activities, is one of the best (if not, the best) ships for racing (from what we know, it's going to be a purely twitch based activity with a periodic, tournament structure); in dogfighting, a very skilled player should be able to give hell to slow ships and manage to evade a lot of firepower (otherwise, the M50 will get toasted pretty quickly). An organized squadron of M50s should manage to provide enough distraction while bigger ships will take care of bigger targets: in a PvP multiplayer environment, the most probable scenario is  zerging the enemy with lots of M50  :grin:

Concept art (big pictures, they might be obsolete by now):



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 18, 2013, 12:50:09 AM
As much as I just love to buy stuff, the limited sale ships seem awfully...specialized. A racing shuttle, a support freighter, a long range bomber. I guess the Aurora XL is an exception to this, but it's so ugly...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 18, 2013, 04:29:33 AM
Maybe the right compromise is the Origin 350r (on sale tomorrow), which combines great speed, decent hull and weaponry (plus good aesthetics) for an average dogfighting/exploration combo (but with limited cargo capacity).
---

During last friday's "Wingman's Hangar", someone spotted a PS4 dev kit sitting right next to the project CTO, Jason Spangler (you might remember him from the original UO days as "Stormwind"). The usual, heated debate between retards ensued, so unfortunately Chris Roberts himself had to post the following message on the forums:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/76653/star-citizen-pc-ps4-and-consoles/p1

snippet (post is quite longer) :
Quote
As far as consoles go Star Citizen will never be on the PS3 or Xbox 360. As for the next gen consoles, PS4 and Xbox One, we have NO CURRENT PLANS, but my stance remains open and is consistent with the many interviews I’ve given -

IF the platform holders (Sony & Microsoft) allow us to update the code and data without restrictions and odious time consuming QC procedures, IF they allow our community to openly interact with each other across platforms then I would CONSIDER supporting them.

Why?

Well because then they are essentially inexpensive small form factor PCs with a custom operating system focused on gaming and who wouldn't want a bigger community of Star Citizens? If Sony or Microsoft are willing to let their platform be open, then I see no real difference between them or Valve’s Steambox, a Mac or a PC running Linux, all of which are platforms that I don’t think this community would mind supporting as they are all viewed as “PCs”. In fact most Macs are probably much worse gaming machines than a next gen console (as Apple is the antithesis of what I love about PCs)

But this is a big IF as it’s asking a lot. To their credit Sony seems to be the most eager to embrace indie games and the idea of openness, and they chased us down to give us some dev kits to play with but we’ve been very clear on what it would take to get Star Citizen onto PS4.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on November 18, 2013, 11:43:53 AM
Quote
update the code and data without restrictions and odious time consuming QC procedures
Fucking quality control.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on November 18, 2013, 06:40:09 PM
Quote
update the code and data without restrictions and odious time consuming QC procedures
Fucking quality control.  :oh_i_see:

Those bastards expect paid customers not to test our new codes in LIVE games?
The nerve, damn your Micro$oft!



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on November 18, 2013, 08:24:26 PM
Wait, there's going to be a live game?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on November 19, 2013, 01:15:53 AM
So even if I buy one of these ships during this "Sale" I still have to wait for release?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 19, 2013, 02:23:36 AM
So even if I buy one of these ships during this "Sale" I still have to wait for release?

you can check them out in the hangar module; also, you will be able to fly the ships (still undecided if it's going to be only yours or every single one for testing purposes, albeit in staggered phases) when they'll release the dogfighting module (currently scheduled for late December - mid January).
--------------

Origin M50 sale ended a couple hours ago: they managed to gather around 300K.


Origin 350r now on sale (bold is mine):

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13380-Origin-350R-Now-Available

Quote
Continuing the Star Citizen Anniversary Sale, we are pleased to announce that the Origin Jumpworks 350R is available again for the next 24 hours (ending at midnight PST, November 19, 2013.) The 350R is the twin-engined development of the popular 300i, offering more thrust capacity and a redesigned hull. It’s available today with LTI for all backers, as is the “Lightspeed Package” which includes a digital copy of the game, a 350R and a special racing suit. Interested Citizens can learn more here.

Please note that if you have a non-LTI 350R and would like to upgrade, you should reclaim the original ship or addon and then purchase this version. Simply purchasing an upgrade will not give your ship LTI!

Want to learn more about the Origin 300 Series? Check out the brochure!

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/300i

New backers:

Lightspeed Package - $135 [€108]
Origin 350r standalone ship (comes with the related hangar) - $115 [€92]
Upgrade from plain 300i to 350r - $45 [€36]

Original/Veteran backers:

Lightspeed package - $120 [€96]
350r Standalone ship - $100 [€80]
Upgrade - $45 [€36]

Other links:

Brochure - https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/exfjsh7mejoxir/source/300series_brochure.pdf
300i series video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTBzrUwB6Qo
350r video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYjD1wiTBmM&feature=share&list=PLVct2QDhDrB0QRjv9oN02f8mGsml8tcK9

Like I said yesterday, beside racing, it should be a decent fighter (but for a pure one from the same line, the 325a is better) and decent enough for some short range exploration. Plus, it's quite stylish. More "technical" info on the ship stats page on the official site.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 19, 2013, 09:41:11 AM
28M reached and 14% into 29M.

(http://i.imgur.com/D99DbCe.png)

By the time that game is out it will be bigger than GTA V...  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Merusk on November 19, 2013, 09:59:43 AM
All this shows me is that MMO devs were chumps for only charging $15/ month all these years.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on November 19, 2013, 10:02:05 AM
All this shows me is that MMO devs were chumps for only charging $15/ month all these years.

This is why Blizzard started selling sparkle ponies.  Star Citizen is just Sparkle Ponies all the way down.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 19, 2013, 10:06:56 AM
Quote
update the code and data without restrictions and odious time consuming QC procedures
Fucking quality control.  :oh_i_see:

I believe that he is referring to the High price per patch they charge, and the frequency you are allowed to patch games at, and the required months of QC each has to go though. Its not like on the PC where you can patch out a patch when its done, there are time limits on frequency, and I believe a fee each time, to the tune of tens of thousands per patch ( $40,000 per patch on Xbox360, and PS3 ). Also, there are restrictions on patch size I believe. This would all be the "update the code and data without restrictions and odious time consuming QC procedures" for patching on consoles. Its not just Quality control he is talking about.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yegolev on November 19, 2013, 10:33:25 AM
If those restrictions are not about quality control, then what are they?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on November 19, 2013, 10:42:27 AM
An incentive to make developers put out something good? And by incentive I mean a giant fucking stick of punishment.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on November 19, 2013, 10:52:02 AM
Why the neck can't I buy whatever ship I want plus alpha and beta access without being forced to buy another ship?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 19, 2013, 10:56:01 AM
Why the neck can't I buy whatever ship I want plus alpha and beta access without being forced to buy another ship?

I think you can. Unless I am misunderstanding your question...

What exactly do you want to do?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on November 19, 2013, 10:59:01 AM
So every ship has alpha and beta access?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 19, 2013, 11:07:50 AM
No.  You buy a "package" to get alpha/beta, the game itself and so on.  Most ships can be found on a package, just make sure to read the "This Package Contains" section.

Link to packages. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/newbackers)  Just find the one with the ship you want.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 19, 2013, 11:08:00 AM
So every ship has alpha and beta access?

Ahh. No. All ships are available as "pure ships". Only the ship itself, without the game. Then there are a couple of pledge packages that are ship+game.

If you just want the game (and want alpha access too) the cheapest way is Digital Mercenary (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/69-digital-mercenary) - 40$. It also includes the Aurora, which is sort of a newbie ship which you can't avoid  :-)

Edit: I looked at the store again. The only ships that don't have an optional package with the game tied it are the Drake Cutlass and the RSI Constellation. All others are buy-able in both ways: Ship or Ship+Game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yegolev on November 19, 2013, 11:19:45 AM
An incentive to make developers put out something good? And by incentive I mean a giant fucking stick of punishment.

Sounds like QC to me.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 19, 2013, 11:21:33 AM
Edit: I looked at the store again. The only ships that don't have an optional package with the game tied it are the Drake Cutlass and the RSI Constellation. All others are buy-able in both ways: Ship or Ship+Game.
Constellation is the Rear Admiral package, if you really want to spend $275 on an internet spaceship.

Fake Edit:  I really fucking hate how their website refuses to show you some pages if you are logged in.  I have to switch to a different browser without a cookie just to look at what other people see ffs.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on November 19, 2013, 11:29:54 AM
I wonder how much they have left of the money they've gathered.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 19, 2013, 12:00:20 PM
yeah, let's do it!!  :drill:





Actually, no  :ye_gods:  :grin:


EDIT: btw, new letter from the chairman, 28 million reached:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13382-Letter-From-The-Chairman-28-Million

Excerpt:

Quote
For our next several stretch goals, we’re going to try something different. We are constantly asked where the additional money goes. Surely new mocap hardware or a new starship design doesn’t cost a million dollars. The answer is that the stretch goals are an example: one big thing we will be doing with some of the money. Every additional million means that we’re hiring additional artists and programmers, equipping the team with better development tools and increasing the size of the talented outsource groups being trusted with aspects of Star Citizen’s development. It means more actors and time for mocap studios, more reference for designers, greater variety in game characters, more options in clothing and armor and a large array of ship items and weapons.

Every dollar improves the project. That isn’t as sexy as spending large amounts of money on impressive, headline-grabbing stretch goals… but it means a significantly better game in the end. So, for the next several stretch goals, we’re going to leave you with the knowledge that the money goes to improving all aspects of Star Citizen’s development. Instead of specifying some new development goal, we’re going to add a new ship to the game as a reward.

The design team has imagined a new set of Star Citizen ships, one from each of our big manufacturers. Each ship will have a new role to play in the Star Citizen universe, and unlocking these stretch goals will make it possible to go ahead and start building them. Since the M50 and 350R got us to this point, we’re starting with the Origin Jumpworks design. After that, it’s going to be up to you: the $31 million stretch goal ship will be decided by the poll below!

The Origin 890 JUMP sounds pretty nice and will probably cost an obscene amount of money, out and in-game :P

Anyone who is registered on the website can vote on the poll for the next ship (no need to pledge). Personally, I'm quite undecided between a "traditional" occupation like mining, and the more particular "information runner".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 19, 2013, 12:30:06 PM
That description makes me think of this:

(http://www.swgemu.com/archive/scrapbookv51/data/20070130133310/ladyluck1.jpg)


Also, Lucas , check image size please.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 19, 2013, 12:30:27 PM
Mining is by far the most popular with 31% o.O Personally I'd have expected the usual "ARRR! I wanna be a pirrrrate!" result.

Results spoilerd for size:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 19, 2013, 12:33:44 PM
"information runner"

The Info runner "profession" come from the talks on how information filters to the outside systems from the core. Its kind of a cool concept they have been discussing on the ask a developer threads. Basically, there is no tech that can "beam" news, info and correspondence huge distances. So, someone has to take it to other areas/hubs. That someone is the players. I forsee it as a great tool for espionage.


Quote
Hi Wesha,

Definitely, there is money to be made for couriers who can guarantee that messages can arrive faster and more securely than the comm-relays.

Dave

Quote
Hi Saya,

Thanks for the links. I will definitely try to check them out.

We do have the drones to carry the communications between systems. I would imagine that the military/government/Advocacy have their iterations as well or at least have the ability to 'push' urgent communiques through the regular channels.

So it's just about finding enough science or enough of an explanation to justify our set-up.

Dave

Quote
Hi Cymelion,

That's an interesting point about Star Trek, it was when they tried to get really specific that they got into trouble as the technology proved/disproved some of the science that they presented. You can also see that in sci-fi movies from the 1950's, while many of them are still fun, their 'assertions' about science/space/etc. can be just flat-out incorrect.

Again, our set-up with communication was a specific choice to create opportunities for drama/set-pieces and to make the UEE's ability to manage their Empire much more difficult.

Dave

Quote
Hi Collin,

The intent behind having information needing to be relayed, was that it offered up dramatic possibilities (i.e. if a settlement was attacked by Vanduul, it would take time for authorities/military to be aware of the attack) but also some occupational ones (the need for couriers).

Thanks for writing in,

Dave


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on November 19, 2013, 12:38:50 PM
Which stretch goal will improve/expand character and ship customization? Because I'd kind of like to see that.

I know, I'm a stupid damn dummy MMORPG player. Cosmetic options in a space sim, WTH amirite?

Re: Calapine

Mining? What that says to me is that 31% of pledgers have never played EVE.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 19, 2013, 12:40:05 PM
"information runner"

The Info runner "profession" come from the talks on how information filters to the outside systems from the core. Its kind of a cool concept they have been discussing on the ask a developer threads. Basically, there is no tech that can "beam" news, info and correspondence huge distances. So, someone has to take it to other areas/hubs. That someone is the players. I forsee it as a great tool for espionage.

Hmm, yeah, sounds interesting, infact I voted for it: on the forums, the vast majority is expressing a vote in favour of Mining, anyway, so it's good to offer a more peculiar activity :).

LOL, loved this pic from the "Fifth Element" posted on the forums about a spaceship yacht:

(http://flavorwire.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/fifth3.jpg)



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 19, 2013, 01:10:48 PM
This is a case study waiting to happen.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 19, 2013, 01:19:32 PM
This is a case study waiting to happen.

Awww. Let's be fair. It's fun mocking people who spend fortunes on pixels. (*blush*) but the game only costs 30$ and no sub. If any of the ships were real-money purchase only that be different of course, but as it's now I rather see the money go to a (possibly misguided) attempt to make something new instead of EA, where you know it disappears in a black hole marketing costs and management overhead.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Job601 on November 19, 2013, 01:20:29 PM
Wait, so you can buy all of these ships in the game, and the point of the game is to explore and earn money to buy more ships and other stuff.  You'll presumably end up with lots of ships. But people would rather spend $100 each to have them right away?  What are they going to do when they're actually playing the game?  And these are hardcore gamers who think Zynga is the scum of the earth because it makes housewives put in a quarter to continue?  Maybe if I played Eve this would make sense to me.  


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 19, 2013, 01:25:56 PM
Wait, so you can buy all of these ships in the game, and the point of the game is to explore and earn money to buy more ships and other stuff.  You'll presumably end up with lots of ships. But people would rather spend $100 each to have them right away?  What are they going to do when they're actually playing the game?  And these are hardcore gamers who think Zynga is the scum of the earth because it makes housewives put in a quarter to continue?  Maybe if I played Eve this would make sense to me.  

I guess it's a mixture of getting a head start, not having to grind for your flashy ship and desire to support the game development. How each of this factors is weighted will be different with every individual.

Personally I have no moral qualms about blowing up newblets in their ill fitted newbieships on day 1. :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sky on November 19, 2013, 01:32:20 PM
That's a lot of people not voting for combat. Should be interesting.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 19, 2013, 01:41:50 PM
That's a lot of people not voting for combat. Should be interesting.

Yes. What would really interest me how the distribution between "Bought the game at launch because I saw an add" and "Following SC for the last 2 years, own 5 ships and know everything there is" players will be. Maybe I am too pessimistic, but I'd worry about an Eve situation that has the game in the hands of 3-4 big alliances one month after launch.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 19, 2013, 01:59:38 PM
Which stretch goal will improve/expand character and ship customization? Because I'd kind of like to see that.

I know, I'm a stupid damn dummy MMORPG player. Cosmetic options in a space sim, WTH amirite?

Re: Calapine

Mining? What that says to me is that 31% of pledgers have never played EVE.

Regarding character customization, a funding goal ($22M) introduced this:

Quote
Facial Capture System. We’ve researched a technology that uses a series of cameras to capture real heads and import them into the game. This will let the team more easily create a variety of realistic characters. In addition, the technology is mobile enough to allow us to take it on the road and capture select fans during special events! You can learn more about this technology at Infinite-Realities.

Plus, looks like we'll get a lot of outfits while we're on ground:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5YJDOwil0k

Take a look starting roughly at the 20:56 mark. Also, from another picture I can't find anymore, it appears that the body might be slot-based, so that we can mix 'n match individual pieces, beside the single outfit that we can wear instantly. I also assume that, given how much they want to push immersion, customization, etc., wel'll get a very solid character creator.

Finally, devs mentioned multiple times that yes, we'll be able to change the colour scheme of our ships, just don't expect a complete paint over; and yes, we'll be able to implement skins (some are already available in the pledge store, see digital add-ons), and they're considering user-made ones, but of course that might raise a lot of issues :P
---

Regarding the last letter, the wording made it look like the game it's now feature complete, and now it's all about the ships and implementing the various mechanics. Small steps, I guess.






Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 19, 2013, 02:03:54 PM
it appears that the body might be slot-based, so that we can mix 'n match individual pieces

Some of this is just necessary for the models ETC. Some will definitely be areas of customization. The Complexity of the player models is extreamly high compared to most games.

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/vtbd95klhvgbmr/source/JumpPoint_01-08_A_Few_Good_Men-V22.jpg)

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/le8akogmh91r8r/source/JumpPoint_01-08_A_Few_Good_Men-V23.jpg)

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/d8u3imag3j4j5r/source/JumpPoint_01-08_A_Few_Good_Men-V28.jpg)

Source (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/13321-Jump-Point-Marine-Rifle-WIP)



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 19, 2013, 08:37:18 PM
IT'S NOT A GAME STOP READING ABOUT IT

FUCK


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 19, 2013, 08:37:35 PM
This is all more insulting than Eve ever was, or ever could be.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 19, 2013, 10:55:14 PM
Noooooooooo!

I just read how the PVP system works and I don't like it at all. Quoting someone else to explain it:

Quote
If Pete the Pirate is hanging out on a trade lane location, that's an instance. If Joe the Merchant comes along and there are no other instances going, my read on the information available is that the game will check Joe's PvP slider and assign a percentage that he runs afoul of Pete that decreases in scale with the extent to which Joe would prefer to fight against the AI.

I'm saying that's a bunch of crap. Inside of UEE space, sure, let Joe fall into an instance chock full of Centurion Merchant Protecting Good Guys. Outside of it, his only protection from having his lunch eaten should be good planning, hired guns or hot engines.

"What a bunch of crap!" Indeed. Anyone want to take a Freelancer of my hands? It's brand new!   :why_so_serious:


I kid, I kid.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on November 19, 2013, 11:47:13 PM
This is a case study waiting to happen.

One that may be subtitled, "Why Chris Roberts Isn't On The Internet Any More".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 20, 2013, 12:13:48 AM
Then, for future reference of this case study, let me post that the third day of the sale has just begun. Caterpillar is today's protagonist:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13383-Drake-Caterpillar-Now-Available

Quote
Today, we’re offering the Drake Interplanetary Caterpillar transport. The Caterpillar is a tough, pirate-oriented transport that should be great for shipping raids and other nefarious activities. Here’s the official description:

Drake maintains that the Caterpillar, a sprawling, modular spacecraft which appears at least somewhat like its namesake, is for legitimate commerce and extended search and rescue missions… but at the end of the day, the Caterpillar is truly the evil twin of the Freelancer.
Designed for supporting pirate operations, the Caterpillar features a large cargo hold for carrying loot, heavier armor than other freighters in its class and room for five crew able to serve in boarding operations. Despite its heavier armor, the Caterpillar isn’t a bulldog… a succesful operation will require a fighter escort.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/281-drake-interplanetary-caterpillar-lti

Description says it all about its possible use.

New backers - $245 [€196]
Original/veteran backers - $225 [€180]

Yep, price is high (certainly higher than a Freelancer, but again it's a combination between a dedicated transport and a ship); it currently doesn't have an hangar because it will only fit in one that is not released, yet: the asteroid hangar (maybe we'll get a first glimpse of its in-engine version during the livestream on the 26th).

Here's a concept art pic of the asteroid/pirate hangar:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/wlxtj4w9wzo55r/source/Pirate_hangar.jpg
                


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 20, 2013, 12:40:39 AM
Because a picture is more ... etc etc

The Drake Catapillar *drumroll*

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/831zrsxbjvv90r/source/Cat-Model-Render4.jpg)

(http://www.pcgames.de/screenshots/667x375/2013/09/Star_Citizen_Caterpillar_Raumschiff_Render_3-pc-games.jpg)

Edit: Lucas' link to the Catapilliar pledge is only available for original backers. Anyone else use this: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/281-drake-interplanetary-caterpillar-lti (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/281-drake-interplanetary-caterpillar-lti)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on November 20, 2013, 12:51:02 AM
I'm not finding the version of it that has Alpha and Beta access.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 20, 2013, 12:54:01 AM
I'm not finding the version of it that has Alpha and Beta access.

There isn't one.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on November 20, 2013, 01:02:50 AM
This is all more insulting than Eve ever was, or ever could be.

You should start developing games this way bro.
We can start a campaign.
Maybe Call it the Frontier: The Wild West

"Here's a gun. A shiny gun. Much like the real revolver, it kills. It features a gold plated handle, with long barrel enhancement. It packs a punch and reliable in duels. It also comes with a Life Time Insurance in case one of those Injuns gets you."

"We are also breeding a new breed of horses. Remember the one we had, the one that went very fast and is hard to tame in the wilds? This one's VERY VERY fast and costs less to keep fed. Comes in multiple shades of brown and white. Saddles are optional. Gold plated ones costs extra."



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Teleku on November 20, 2013, 01:50:25 AM
(http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb137/krenum/ID-BUY-THAT-FOR-A-DOLLAR.jpg)

IT'S NOT A GAME STOP READING ABOUT IT

FUCK
Dude, its a METAGAME!  


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 20, 2013, 02:07:18 AM
This is all more insulting than Eve ever was, or ever could be.

He is  just bitter you didn't think of it first.  :grin:

I'll soo laugh if F13 members together end up spending thousands of dollars for space pixels and next time there is a founding drive here asking for 5$ to keep the forum servers going everyone is "Uhh, sorry. I can't help, wasted all on spaceships!"

Edit: Even better, Schild checking his email, and instead of a paypal donation it's "Congratulations! Someone gifted you an Origin 350r!"   :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Velorath on November 20, 2013, 02:13:11 AM
Unless you, Lucas, Bloodworth, and Miasma somehow made up 95% of the last round of funding, I don't really think that will be a problem.

Edit: And having flipped back through this thread a bit, I feel like Chris Roberts must be paying Lucas for each link he posts here and Bloodworth for each screenshot.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 20, 2013, 02:16:25 AM
Unless you, Lucas, Bloodworth, and Miasma somehow made up 95% of the last round of funding, I don't really think that will be a problem.

True. But you must admit it would funny!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 20, 2013, 02:31:00 AM
Edit: Even better, Schild checking his email, and instead of a paypal donation it's "Congratulations! Someone gifted you an Origin 350r!"   :grin:

I'll so do that, thanks for the input!  :heart:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 20, 2013, 05:20:15 AM
This is all more insulting than Eve ever was, or ever could be.
I'll soo laugh if F13 members together end up spending thousands of dollars for space pixels and next time there is a founding drive here asking for 5$ to keep the forum servers going everyone is "Uhh, sorry. I can't help, wasted all on spaceships!"
That already happened, with HEX.

My new year's resolution is going to be to stop wasting so much money.  Just because I'm fortunate enough to have a good deal of diposable income doesn't mean I should literally dispose of it.

Edit: Removed a poorly written sentence comparing Star Citizen with HEX.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 20, 2013, 05:54:45 AM
What? Hex is not good? I would ask in the proper forum but for reasons too complicated for me to understand it has been closed. So, quick answer, is Hex actually disappointing?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 20, 2013, 06:19:47 AM
Woah woah woah, I never said that.  I mean in comparing two things that aren't finished yet that I've spent money on.  Very narrow field of study.  I can't even really talk about HEX, not just because of NDA but because I'm not bothering to play it until it goes from alpha to beta.

Edit: You know what I'm just going to edit that out because it is open to misinterpretation.  HEX is fine, I was just using it an example of something else a lot of us have paid for but isn't finished.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 20, 2013, 06:27:48 AM
Oh, NDA? Maybe that's why the forum has been closed. Thanks. /derail


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ironwood on November 20, 2013, 07:13:08 AM
Hey, remember the MechWarrior NDA ?

Good Times.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 20, 2013, 07:20:55 AM
Unless you, Lucas, Bloodworth, and Miasma somehow made up 95% of the last round of funding, I don't really think that will be a problem.

Nope, Still have only spent the one pledge long ago. However, I think you are missing quite a few people in that list of yours.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Trippy on November 20, 2013, 07:35:09 AM
Oh, NDA? Maybe that's why the forum has been closed. Thanks. /derail
There's no NDA. schild made it private because metagame. Unfortunately there's no metagame right now cause the card set isn't complete :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 20, 2013, 07:41:22 AM
I always figured it was made private so we wouldn't make fun of them.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 20, 2013, 07:56:28 AM


Stick and Rudder: How to be an informed Star Citizen (http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/11/17/stick-and-rudder-how-to-be-an-informed-star-citizen/)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on November 20, 2013, 10:48:00 AM
100 developers? Even 30 million isn't going to last long with that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 20, 2013, 11:29:11 AM
Maybe he's a student of the Curt Schilling school of Management?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 20, 2013, 12:17:50 PM
Noooooooooo!

I just read how the PVP system works and I don't like it at all. Quoting someone else to explain it:

Quote
If Pete the Pirate is hanging out on a trade lane location, that's an instance. If Joe the Merchant comes along and there are no other instances going, my read on the information available is that the game will check Joe's PvP slider and assign a percentage that he runs afoul of Pete that decreases in scale with the extent to which Joe would prefer to fight against the AI.

I'm saying that's a bunch of crap. Inside of UEE space, sure, let Joe fall into an instance chock full of Centurion Merchant Protecting Good Guys. Outside of it, his only protection from having his lunch eaten should be good planning, hired guns or hot engines.

"What a bunch of crap!" Indeed. Anyone want to take a Freelancer of my hands? It's brand new!   :why_so_serious:


I kid, I kid.



Whom ever you are quoting, missed some really important parts of the system.

Chris Roberts on Multiplayer, Single Player and Instancing (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12770-Chris-Roberts-On-Multiplayer-Single-Player-And-Instancing)


Quote
Outside of it, his only protection from having his lunch eaten should be good planning, hired guns or hot engines.

That's exactly how it is.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on November 20, 2013, 01:36:44 PM
Original/veteran backers - $225

Nice ship. But, uh... nope.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ginaz on November 20, 2013, 01:46:04 PM
Is it just me or is like 90% of posts in this thread about prices, package tiers, funding or something else regarding money?  Not a good sign IMO.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 20, 2013, 01:49:02 PM
Is it just me or is like 90% of posts in this thread about prices, package tiers, funding or something else regarding money?  Not a good sign IMO.

It's not you. It's like watching a Ponzi scheme in real time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on November 20, 2013, 02:53:44 PM
Is it just me or is like 90% of posts in this thread about prices, package tiers, funding or something else regarding money?  Not a good sign IMO.

That's all there is to talk about. Discussions about what the game is need to wait until there's something people have actually played. And discussions about what the game could maybe someday possibly be lost interest over a dozen pages back.

There's a few really interested people here who like posting game updates in general, which is fed well by Roberts' et al releasing info in a nice predictable sequence. Soon schild will be able to sell ad space just in this thread for the SEO value being built  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 20, 2013, 03:06:15 PM
Honestly, I am really surprised Schild hasn't locked this thread yet.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Velorath on November 20, 2013, 03:16:19 PM
Is it just me or is like 90% of posts in this thread about prices, package tiers, funding or something else regarding money?  Not a good sign IMO.

That's all there is to talk about. Discussions about what the game is need to wait until there's something people have actually played. And discussions about what the game could maybe someday possibly be lost interest over a dozen pages back.

People use this excuse in threads a lot, always missing the obvious solution of just not talking if there's nothing to talk about.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on November 20, 2013, 03:27:51 PM
Well yes. But then the only threads with multiple pages across this entire site would be the "is this game dead" 21-pager in GW2 (which of course tells you how dead the game is...), the related it-sucks WAR threads, and probably some secret corp-mgt threads in the Eve forum  :grin:

The size of this thread is a combination of what I said above and there being intense interest in someone taking space-sims serious. I read this thread a lot. I will not pay anything for virtual items I can't interact with, but understand why the level of hope for this game does drive others to. It's a sociological insight into an underserved market about a long dormant game type.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 20, 2013, 03:28:50 PM
Honestly, I am really surprised Schild hasn't locked this thread yet.

Hehe, me too  :why_so_serious:

Look, no problem. If the majority of you guys find this thread a nuisance or whatever, why don't we just lock it 'til the release of the dogfighting module? Yeah, it still won't be the "proper" game, but there will be quite a lot more to talk about. Or, just move it temporarily (I hope, at least :P) to the Den. Btw, I'm writing this without any anymosity (again, I'm serious), really. It's just that the pattern repeats itself on a almost daily basis: someone post a news item, some other post "there is no game/pay for internet spaceship/etc. and it goes on and on.

Or, we'll just all agree to shut up and leave this thread to rot 'til the aforementioned module.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on November 20, 2013, 04:14:54 PM
I say keep it open, I always look forward to new posts in this thread, it's free entertainment.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on November 20, 2013, 05:27:52 PM
Honestly, I am really surprised Schild hasn't locked this thread yet.

Working off his Hex karma.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Azazel on November 20, 2013, 08:07:39 PM
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/281-drake-interplanetary-caterpillar-lti

Description says it all about its possible use.

New backers - $245 [€196]
Original/veteran backers - $225 [€180]

Yep, price is high (certainly higher than a Freelancer, but again it's a combination between a dedicated transport and a ship); it currently doesn't have an hangar because it will only fit in one that is not released, yet: the asteroid hangar (maybe we'll get a first glimpse of its in-engine version during the livestream on the 26th).

Here's a concept art pic of the asteroid/pirate hangar:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/wlxtj4w9wzo55r/source/Pirate_hangar.jpg
                

I'm confused. Is this an in-game spaceship for an unreleased MMO that you need to buy for $250 real dollars?   :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on November 20, 2013, 08:16:10 PM
I want to sell this robot I made over lunch.




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 20, 2013, 11:05:32 PM
But what are the stretch goals, RK?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on November 20, 2013, 11:12:23 PM
But what are the stretch goals, RK?

We might add in Player-Tanks that can fight Mechs on even ground if the Anderson is fully sold out.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 21, 2013, 12:39:26 AM
I am disappoint. I want a dating sim for the 30M stretch goal.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samwise on November 21, 2013, 12:41:44 AM
 :heart:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on November 21, 2013, 01:28:07 AM
I am disappoint. I want a dating sim for the 30M stretch goal.

Why, Falconeer, we apologize for this oversight, but there's good news up ahead for BEYOND 30M - we've taken some time to contact the best of the best in the gaming industry and realized what people want from a sci-fi setting. And so we went for the best - and nothing for the best. We present you this update:

For 32 mil, we'll bring in Jennifer Hepler of the Dragon Age 2 fame to write romance NPC that are instanced to every player and capable of playing the role of the player's spouse. Just like The Old Republic Online!

Expect a wide array of personalities that the Bioware veteran is famous for, including:
A man that was betrayed, and is afraid of being betrayed again - hence it will be difficult for him to trust again. But the player can slowly gain his trust and help him overcome the trauma of betrayal and achieve a semblance of happiness. It will be a bittersweet ending for him as the player partners him and dogfight against nearly impossible odds against his old Commander who betrayed him and cast him aside. We've also approached several leading actors to lend their voices to the role, some names include Robert Pattinson and Brad Pitt.

A young woman bound by rules and laws, only to meet the player who is seemingly uncaring of such restrictive boundaries and culture - this confused her greatly for it invokes a previously unknown emotions within her. It's up to the player to magnetize himself and continue her growing attraction, eventually she will understand that Love can transcend even oath and laws - a bond so powerful that evolves from a simple master and apprentice into something more... deep. We've taken the liberty of twitting the circles of sci-fi actresses and realize we will not settle for anything less than Natalie Portman or Sandra Bullock.

A man who is easily caught up in passion and emotions that he cannot seem to make up his mind, his abrasive nature can be a turn off to many ladies/man but a few players can see beneath his facade. Did we say he is bi? He is simply searching for someone that can accept him the way he is. He also has a soft spot for kittens and dabble in slightly questionable activity that is widely seen in a bad light by the authorities. Beware, inflexible players may lose his affection and lose him.. permanently. We can't think of anyone else but Hugh Grant for this role, either that or perhaps Sean Connery can come out of retirement and lend his voice. We can only hope.

A woman who believes in her own strength and unwilling to rely on another man. Female players will have an easier time approaching her. Yes, that's right, we made her bi. Depending on the player's action, he/she can prove to this personality that it is okay to rely on others and growing attachments can inspire one to greater strengths and not simply an act of weakness that she once perceived. For this, we need someone young, independent and wild - no one else can beat Miley Cirus. We look forward to seeing a lot of player enjoying the interaction with a digitalized version of the idol they know so well and love.

Jennifer is also bringing in a new gameplay feature to the table. If we fail to hit the $32,000,000 mark, we will implement her idea to fixing broken combat and tedium - The Fast Forward button. Yes, obviously this will be quite a touchy topic between hardcore PVPers but let me remind you that it is a consensual thing. Let me explain: if a fast ship fights a slow ship and assume both pilots are of equal skill, it's obvious who's gonna win right? Fast Forward will obviously solve a lot of tedium like, the fast pilot having to dodge turret fire to get his loot. Or the slow cargo ship awaiting to be blown up. So Hepler's solution would be to put in a Consensual Fast Forward feature where opposing players would agree for an encounter to be fast forwarded so it'll save the server bandwidth and their effort as well.

We understand that this seems controversial: so vote with your wallets. If you don't want it implemented, help us reach the 32 million mark.
You know what happens if you don't.  


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 21, 2013, 03:14:30 AM
This is amazing, and since all Roberts is selling right now is dreams, I would love for it to be implemented as the next stretch goal in Star Citizen. Space Romance, hell yeah. After all, what are those big ships for if not galactic cuddle puddles? In fact, I hope the next ship up for sale will be some honeymoon cruiser with a king size bed. Also available in the Polyamorous, Asexual, Tribal and BDSM variants.

And more importantly, will the "Relationship module" use the CryTek engine too? I'm a little worried about this...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Speedy Cerviche on November 21, 2013, 07:38:35 AM
No pod racing? I would prefer that. Think of the e-sports league potential.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on November 21, 2013, 07:40:48 AM
No pod racing? I would prefer that. Think of the e-sports league potential.

Blood bowl. In spaaaaaceeeeeeeee.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on November 21, 2013, 07:47:50 AM
If this were a space dating sim I'd be much more inclined to contribute.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on November 21, 2013, 08:13:54 AM
I think the mech / tank is a better platform for a dating SIM.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Thrawn on November 21, 2013, 09:58:54 AM
It's not you. It's like watching a Ponzi scheme in real time.

That is what I'm going to use to describe Star Citizen from now on if anyone asks me about it or brings it up.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Rasix on November 21, 2013, 10:05:20 AM
Sure, do that.  You're just not getting in on the ground floor and that'll cost you in the long run.  See, if you buy these space ships now, you can turn around and sell them for more later.  The Behemoth may cost you $75 right now, but imagine when you can sell it for 3 million space bucks and fully outfit another, classier ship.   Better yet, you can recruit people into your Star Citizen Squadron.  For each person you recruit, Star Citizen will provide you with free hangar updates and access to exclusive sales.  You want that Space Donger 5000? Well, it's only available to people with 10 people in their squadron, so start expanding your network.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: HaemishM on November 21, 2013, 10:07:14 AM
Honestly, I am really surprised Schild hasn't locked this thread yet.

Working off his Hex karma.

I'm confused. Did Hex suck or something?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on November 21, 2013, 10:15:09 AM
Honestly, I am really surprised Schild hasn't locked this thread yet.

Working off his Hex karma.

I'm confused. Did Hex suck or something?

It has gone from cool idea to actual buggy alpha. Should still be just fine, it is just the sausage making stage. Which is miles beyond SC even now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2013, 10:31:40 AM
We can still make fun of that too, though? Right?

I do enjoy Schild informing us how he can still flip his accounts.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on November 21, 2013, 10:40:37 AM
Make fun all you want, but it is an actual game rather than a series of screenshots and dollar signs. Huge patch just hit a few minutes ago that gives me hope they are getting it. I think they were overwhelmed trying to fulfill their promise of getting all the backers into the alpha, and actually solving some of other issues took a back seat to that. Now that everyone who is entitled to alpha access has it they can go back to quicker iterations (I hope).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 21, 2013, 11:07:06 AM
It has gone from cool idea to actual buggy alpha. Should still be just fine, it is just the sausage making stage. Which is miles beyond SC even now.
I'll put the SC hanger module's stability up against the current state of HEX anyday.

You guys realize we have been able to download, patch, login, walk around, walk inside and change the fittings on all our internet spaceships for months now right?  The files are unencypted cryengine modules so people can even do their own tweaks and mods.

Be sure to change these to at least 720p:

In game Constellation (Large multiplayer multirole ship). (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH0jbr6DjNo)  The hovering/flying is modded.
Constellation interior. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqwsG15L1NI&feature=player_detailpage#t=104)

In game Freelancer (Business/hauler) and Aurora (Starter ship). (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGKHKkH3034)

In game Merlin (Tiny snub fighter that launches out of the Constellation). (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLH96UCFr8A)  The planet it is on was modded in by the video's maker.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samwise on November 21, 2013, 11:09:06 AM
You guys realize we have been able to download, patch, login, walk around, walk inside and change the fittings on all our internet spaceships for months now right?

I'm not sure if this is intentionally hilarious or unintentionally really hilarious.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ironwood on November 21, 2013, 11:10:56 AM
Hopefully both.  The Modded parts were the cream.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 21, 2013, 11:11:22 AM
I'm not sure if this is intentionally hilarious or unintentionally really hilarious.
I'm comparing it to HEX, not fully released games.  And some people do seem to be under the impression that zero work or effort has been made on the game yet.
Hopefully both.  The Modded parts were the cream.
The modded parts were a guy changing a few lines in xml files, I'm sure someone who is actually making the game can do that too.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ironwood on November 21, 2013, 11:13:29 AM
I'm sure they can.

I can also make my own coffee.  I tend not to pay Costa hundreds of pounds so that I can do that.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 11:33:40 AM
I'm not locking this thread until the next donation drive. Wherein I expect everyone who put money into Star Citizen to at least match that in donations.

Then I'll decide what to do with this insane bullshit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2013, 11:47:50 AM
Chris Roberts Moneyhat pics seem appropriate at some point.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on November 21, 2013, 11:54:40 AM
You guys realize we have been able to download, patch, login, walk around, walk inside and change the fittings on all our internet spaceships for months now right?  The files are unencypted cryengine modules so people can even do their own tweaks and mods.

The amount of work on display in the hangar module is something a good mod team could put together in a couple weeks. (Minus maybe the detailing on the models) It's a room made in CryEngine.

It's like 0.05% of a game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Speedy Cerviche on November 21, 2013, 12:04:00 PM
Can you add decals & paint patterns to those hanger ships or is that part of a later donation drive?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2013, 12:19:36 PM
Can you add decals & paint patterns to those hanger ships or is that part of a later donation drive?

Cosmetic upgrades are part of the in-game item shop.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 12:20:08 PM
I'd just like to note. Its not the people actually interested in this game, who are shitting up the thread.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samwise on November 21, 2013, 12:23:04 PM
Is this a thread?  I thought it was a Kickstarter RSS feed or something.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on November 21, 2013, 12:23:47 PM
Because this isn't a game, it is a cult designed to separate people from their cash.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 12:33:26 PM
It's a game that's in development like any other game that uses crowed funding. This one, even had game play footage and more shown before the crowed funding even started. Unlike many Crowed funded game projects, that typically only have concept art at best.

Why this thread is allowed to be openly trolled, I have no idea. By mods even.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on November 21, 2013, 12:39:10 PM
Quote
crowed funding



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 12:41:45 PM
Quote
Why this thread is allowed to be openly trolled, I have no idea. By mods even.

1. Chris Roberts
2. Space bullshit
3. Not actually a game
4. The amount of money spent is worthy of ridicule.
5. There will be no return on investment here. It's the actual definition of "throwing money in a fire."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 12:46:09 PM
Quote
Why this thread is allowed to be openly trolled, I have no idea. By mods even.

1. Chris Roberts
2. Space bullshit
3. Not actually a game
4. The amount of money spent is worthy of ridicule.
5. There will be no return on investment here. It's the actual definition of "throwing money in a fire."

All your opinion. Much of that can be applied to any crowed funded game. Time will tell how it turns out.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2013, 12:46:35 PM
I mean honestly, I defy you to find a rational person who has never heard of this project to come in and tell you it sounds like a great idea to spend $250 on a fictional ship for a game that's not even released.

EDIT: It feels absurd even typing that out.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 12:48:01 PM
I mean honestly, I defy you to find a rational person who has never heard of this project to come in and tell you it sounds like a great idea to spend $250 on a fictional ship for a game that's not even released.

EDIT: It feels absurd even typing that out.

Its a Pledge. Spend what you want, and what its worth to you. For many, a game created by the guy who basically defined the genre, that may be worth it to them to help see it gets built.  Considering how much money some of you spend on derivative bullshit, I'm not sure why you are complaining about a game you have no internist in.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2013, 12:49:07 PM
No, it's not a pledge, it's in a fucking online store. Do you not see the difference? He is actively selling you a bridge in an online store with a checkout cart just like Amazon.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 12:51:25 PM
I had a long ass post about this comparing Hex to Star Citizen, but I couldn't take Star Citizen seriously enough to finish the post. I don't know what part of my previous post is opinion. It's pretty much all fact as far as I can tell.

1. Chris Roberts - Yep, actually behind it
2. Space bullshit - Yep, it's space bullshit and attracting the same crowd as Eve - the only reason you wouldn't call that "Space Bullshit" would be due to a serious case of Stockholm Syndrome
3. Not actually a game - Correct
4. The amount of money spent is worthy of ridicule. - $2M went to Hex, which actually has a tangible business plan and future, all that's left is execution. $30M went to this... See number 5
5. There will be no return on investment here. It's the actual definition of "throwing money in a fire." - Fact. How does anyone in Star Citizen expect to see a return? "Fun." You don't invest in "fun," sorry.

Edit: Oh look, more responses. Inventing a genre? WE REALLY GONNA GO DOWN THIS ROUTE? This is basically the easiest thing to refute in the history of gaming. I wish I could tag Raph and Garriott to see what they have to say about this stupid scam.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 12:51:51 PM
No, it's not a pledge, it's in a fucking online store. Do you not see the difference? He is actively selling you a bridge in an online store with a checkout cart just like Amazon.

Its a Pledge drive, the store is labeled store.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Rasix on November 21, 2013, 12:53:30 PM
Quote
crowed funding



(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/82533/russell-crowe.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 12:53:57 PM
No, it's not a pledge, it's in a fucking online store. Do you not see the difference? He is actively selling you a bridge in an online store with a checkout cart just like Amazon.
Its a Pledge drive, the store is labeled store.
This is one of those cases where you're being such an absurd wretch of a man that I actively want to poke you right in the eye with a fork through the internet.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 12:54:40 PM
Funny, I was thinking the same thing. You guys do what you want though.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on November 21, 2013, 12:59:10 PM
At least those of us who spent too much money on Hex have generally been good humored about it.  Jeez!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 12:59:36 PM
Bloodworth, I know you haven't yet been on the laser-focused receiving end of shit like this, so I'll spell it out for you.

EVERYONE THAT ISN'T ENAMORED WITH THIS CARTON OF LIES THINKS YOU'RE ALL FUCKING INSANE.

INSANE.

BROKEN AND INSANE.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 01:03:48 PM
ok ok I've calmed down.

A genuinely serious question:

Let's assume the game comes out and it's the second coming of christ. What's the difference between people who give money to it now and people who just, like, buy into it later?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 21, 2013, 01:05:08 PM
At least those of us who spent too much money on Hex have generally been good humored about it.  Jeez!
The HEX forum is private, only people who have bought in can post there.  Mark it public and see how many people come in to shit on the people who supported that kickstarter.  "You paid how much for fucking imaginary internet cards in a game that doesn't even exist yet?"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 01:05:26 PM
All I have done is pledged, and watched.

I think its you guys who are enamored. Visiting other sites and forums, people do not seem to be as obsessed as many here are.

Let's assume the game comes out and it's the second coming of christ. What's the difference between people who give money to it now and people who just, like, buy into it later?

Not much ( maybe some credits "saved" on Ship insurance ). But with out the pledge drive, its unlikely to get made, with the freedom of no investors and no publisher can provide.  I Can't speak for others, but I expect no return other than a game I want to play. I knew this when I pledged.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 01:06:22 PM
At least those of us who spent too much money on Hex have generally been good humored about it.  Jeez!
The HEX forum is private, only people who have bought in can post there.  Mark it public and see how many people come in to shit on the people who supported that kickstarter.  "You paid how much for fucking imaginary internet cards in a game that doesn't even exist yet?"
Once again, no one there is under the illusion that it was a good idea. But the precedent of 20 years of Magic makes the premise tangible.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 01:06:41 PM
All I have done is pledged, and watched.

I think its you guys who are enamored. Visiting other sites and forums, people do not seem to be as obsessed as many here are.
Answer my previous question.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2013, 01:08:15 PM
The only difference between the crazy is a semi-playable product. I got absolutely roasted for bringing up similar criticisms in the HEX thread. For $250 no less.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 01:09:27 PM
I just want my relatively simple question answered :( I can answer it for Hex, I want someone to answer it here so that I can understand the thought process.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 01:10:50 PM
But the precedent of 20 years of Magic makes the premise tangible.

But 27 23 years of some of the best Space Sims made ( And to add, some of the most financially successful titles ever made, that essentially wrote the standard for space sims. ) by the people on this team is null and void? I understand.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 01:11:15 PM
I just want my relatively simple question answered :( I can answer it for Hex, I want someone to answer it here so that I can understand the thought process.

Quote
Not much ( maybe some credits "saved" on Ship insurance ). But with out the pledge drive, its unlikely to get made, with the freedom of no investors and no publisher can provide.  I Can't speak for others, but I expect no return other than a game I want to play. I knew this when I pledged.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 21, 2013, 01:13:29 PM
ok ok I've calmed down.

A genuinely serious question:

Let's assume the game comes out and it's the second coming of christ. What's the difference between people who give money to it now and people who just, like, buy into it later?
What's the difference between me who has donated hundreds of dollars to f13 over the years and the guy who only registered a couple years ago and hasn't donated a dime?  Nothing but a sense that I helped contribute to something I enjoy and some silly perks like a custom title here and collector's baubles in SC.

It's not about return on investment or anything like that, I've never thought of any video game as an investment, they're all expenses.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2013, 01:16:32 PM
Quote
Not much ( maybe some credits "saved" on Ship insurance ). But with out the pledge drive, its unlikely to get made, with the freedom of no investors and no publisher can provide.  I Can't speak for others, but I expect no return other than a game I want to play. I knew this when I pledged.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Velorath on November 21, 2013, 01:17:52 PM
All your opinion. Much of that can be applied to any crowed funded game. Time will tell how it turns out.

Most games that get crowd funded don't keep going back to the well to get the same handful of people that funded the game to keep giving out money. This isn't crowd funding at this point, it's the fucking Nigerian Prince scam.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on November 21, 2013, 01:21:34 PM
Speaking of African royalty...

(http://i.imgur.com/JZq6LXx.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 01:21:48 PM
ok ok I've calmed down.

A genuinely serious question:

Let's assume the game comes out and it's the second coming of christ. What's the difference between people who give money to it now and people who just, like, buy into it later?
What's the difference between me who has donated hundreds of dollars to f13 over the years and the guy who only registered a couple years ago and hasn't donated a dime?  Nothing but a sense that I helped contribute to something I enjoy and some silly perks like a custom title here and collector's baubles in SC.

It's not about return on investment or anything like that, I've never thought of any video game as an investment, they're all expenses.
I'm going to ignore this response for 2 reasons:

1. I like you.
2. You totally just ignored my actual question, which isn't typically your style. I'll just blame Star Citizen. Or Obama, whatever.

As for the other response - so there's no difference between buying into it now and buying into it later. None, at all. In fact, there's only one major difference. In the likely event that the game never reaches the potential people expect, the people who "pledge" (BUY) into it, have already spent money and it's gone and the people that waited get to popcorn.gif.

Got it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2013, 01:22:40 PM
Also, they're going to kill that dog, man. Have you no heart?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 01:24:53 PM
All your opinion. Much of that can be applied to any crowed funded game. Time will tell how it turns out.

Most games that get crowd funded don't keep going back to the well to get the same handful of people that funded the game to keep giving out money. This isn't crowd funding at this point, it's the fucking Nigerian Prince scam.


You know those people voted to keep the pledge going right? Also, The number of "citizens" on the front page has been steadily going up. Its not just old pledges. You are correct though, it is unprecedented.

How much are those pack of Hex cards again? Because, for me, the Magic/Hex/Card games are the most egregious in terms of money. I mean, its right there in the rule system that you have to continually spend money to be competitive, not just to play, but to compete. But you don't see me trolling threads about it. To each his own.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 21, 2013, 01:24:57 PM
ok ok I've calmed down.

A genuinely serious question:

Let's assume the game comes out and it's the second coming of christ. What's the difference between people who give money to it now and people who just, like, buy into it later?

Preamble: I know you didn't accuse me of that but I don't think SC will be the second coming of Christ. As for space shooters go Tie Fighter was a better, more complex game than the Wing Commanders. What I liked about the latter were the (at the time) new heavy story focus and cutscenes between missions. Two reasons (I think) why people are so hyped: 1) Space shooters are a dead genre, almost like turn based strategy games 2) WC has a lot of sentimental value attached. Childhood memories ;)

Your question: Probably (hopefully) not much. 1) There is the free insurance perk, but CR said explicitly that insurance will be priced thusly that it won't be a game changing difference. He likened them to landing fees in the Privateer games. 2) Having the ships right away, instead of to work for them. Don't have a source for this but the 225$ ship is supposed to be worth about 60 gameplay hours if you earn it ingame. Additionally there will be no real-money exclusive ships (or weapon). The exception to that is fluff items...paint jobs, decals, those things.

Edit: 7 replies since I started typing. Oh well, not discarding it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 01:27:02 PM
As for the other response - so there's no difference between buying into it now and buying into it later. None, at all. In fact, there's only one major difference. In the likely event that the game never reaches the potential people expect, the people who "pledge" (BUY) into it, have already spent money and it's gone and the people that waited get to popcorn.gif.

This is different than any other pledge drive how? To use the same example, what happens if Hex is a steaming pile of shit, or any other kick-starter for that matter.


All I want is the trolling to stop. But I know F13, once the group think starts, you can't fight the current. I Think everyone knows, including me, 10,000 for a internet space ship is crazy, try talking to those people.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on November 21, 2013, 01:32:24 PM
Funny, I was thinking the same thing. You guys do what you want though.

Instead of spamming the thread with endless news about fundraising while laughably claiming that the "game" isn't mostly about fundraising why not post something substantial about the actual "game"?

I accused the game of being mostly about fundraising efforts and your railed against that, but in the meantime every bit of news about the game is just about what new stupid shit they're selling to idiots. Some of you can't even grasp the difference between game info and "here's what's on sale this week" info.

The product here is a store. That's all you or anyone else talks about, that's all the makers of the "game" talk about.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 01:34:58 PM
Funny, I was thinking the same thing. You guys do what you want though.

Instead of spamming the thread with endless news about fundraising while laughably claiming that the "game" isn't mostly about fundraising why not post something substantial about the actual "game"?

I Have, you fucks drown it out. You could, you know, stop trolling a game thread you care nothing about.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on November 21, 2013, 01:35:15 PM
For 32 mil, we'll bring in Jennifer Hepler of the Dragon Age 2 fame to write romance NPC that are instanced to every player and capable of playing the role of the player's spouse. Just like The Old Republic Online!
I'm glad my cup was still up to my lips when I read this, else there would have been water all over my keyboard.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 21, 2013, 01:35:45 PM
ok ok I've calmed down.

A genuinely serious question:

Let's assume the game comes out and it's the second coming of christ. What's the difference between people who give money to it now and people who just, like, buy into it later?
What's the difference between me who has donated hundreds of dollars to f13 over the years and the guy who only registered a couple years ago and hasn't donated a dime?  Nothing but a sense that I helped contribute to something I enjoy and some silly perks like a custom title here and collector's baubles in SC.

It's not about return on investment or anything like that, I've never thought of any video game as an investment, they're all expenses.
I'm going to ignore this response for 2 reasons:

1. I like you.
2. You totally just ignored my actual question, which isn't typically your style. I'll just blame Star Citizen. Or Obama, whatever.

As for the other response - so there's no difference between buying into it now and buying into it later. None, at all. In fact, there's only one major difference. In the likely event that the game never reaches the potential people expect, the people who "pledge" (BUY) into it, have already spent money and it's gone and the people that waited get to popcorn.gif.

Got it.
I honestly did think I answered your question, it is just in the parallel.

Aside from some minor perks and a few weeks time saved in grinding out money there will be no material difference between myself and someone who buys the game at launch.  People who bought the cheapest package will save real world money by buying it now instead of later.

I only bought the package now because I like space games, I would like a better version of EvE and I would like to support the game.

The only thing I'm going to get if it ever sees the light of day is a little satisfaction from knowing I helped a bit by supporting it.

I donate to f13 because I like the place and the vast majority of the people, there is no tangible real world benefit, it just makes me feel good to support something I like and enjoy.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 01:37:30 PM
Bloodworth, I have a pile of 4 Magic cards + a half-full binder that I'm probably about to sell for about $4,000 by merely making a single phone call.

That is less than I've put into Magic in the last 5 years put together and I was ranked in the top 50 in Texas in 2012-2013 with nominal playing. I took down 2 $1ks, and top 32'd multiple $5k+ tournaments (and top 16'd 3 of them). I also have an incomplete cube worth about $15,000 (as in, I could sell it right now for $15,000) that I've put about $1,000 into, if that.

Don't talk about what you don't understand. I'm obviously in the minority of Magic players, but I don't see a way to arbitrage the secondary market of a space scam in an efficient way.

The only thing egregious about Magic is that bad players keep spending money instead of making it.

Edit: You posted again:
As for the other response - so there's no difference between buying into it now and buying into it later. None, at all. In fact, there's only one major difference. In the likely event that the game never reaches the potential people expect, the people who "pledge" (BUY) into it, have already spent money and it's gone and the people that waited get to popcorn.gif.

This is different than any other pledge drive how? To use the same example, what happens if Hex is a steaming pile of shit?

All I want is the trolling to stop. But I know F13, once the group think starts, you can't fight the current. I Think everyone knows, including me, 10,000 for a internet space ship is crazy, try talking to those people.
1. This isn't trolling. Trolling is done in an attempt to get a rise out of people. I could give a shit less about that.

2. Hex already isn't a piece of shit. It's better than MODO in every way (which accounts for nearly 30% of WOTCs overall Magic business), even though it currently crashes more often due to server load issues. They asked for a few hundred thousand - which was to be used for marketing. They got multiple millions because what was being offered was WAY too good to pass up. I would drop $2k RIGHT NOW for 4 drafts a week for life in Magic. That's an absurd ABSURD, ABSURD, deal. That's 12 hours of gaming, every single week, in a PROFITABLE system, for both the company and the player. And then we got some infinite amount of packs on top of the 4 drafts a week. Seriously, they fucked up in the Kickstarter and five years from now, they will regret having done it. Well, maybe not regret it, since they basically insured the inevitable demise of MODO should they be able to deliver.

3. It's not different from any pledge drives. Pledge drives are stupid. I don't run a pledge drive. I run a "give me money and f13 stays up another year, things cost dollars, and I don't have dollars for this" drive. Thankfully, last time, we got to pay for our servers for 2 years, which was GREAT. And this year we got a redesign, which we sorely needed. When my wedding is done I actually can't wait to jump in head first on other stuff with it. But Star Citizen, $30M later, they don't actually have anything to show for it except "Oh, now you can get this thing for more money." rinse, repeat.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Velorath on November 21, 2013, 01:38:16 PM
How much are those pack of Hex cards again? Because, for me, the Magic/Hex/Card games are the most egregious in terms of money. I mean, its right there in the rule system that you have to continually spend money to be competitive, not just to play, but to compete. But you don't see me trolling threads about it. To each his own.

I played Magic early on when it came out (Unlimited-Fallen Empire). When I quit and sold off my cards I made back probably around 3X what I had paid. My brother who had started playing shortly before me and had a Black Lotus and all the Moxes had an even bigger return on his investment obviously. Hex is a roll of the dice in that respect but the early gameplay looked good. Before the Kickstarter had ended we were able to see Twitch streams of games actually played through to completion. If (and admittedly it's a big if) the game follows a similar path as MTG, it could end up being a fun game to play for a few years but also a decent investment a few years down the road when it's time to cash out. I'm pretty confident that even if game doesn't hit it big, as long as it doesn't tank completely I could at the very least break even or make a small profit off my account.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on November 21, 2013, 01:38:34 PM
Funny, I was thinking the same thing. You guys do what you want though.

Instead of spamming the thread with endless news about fundraising while laughably claiming that the "game" isn't mostly about fundraising why not post something substantial about the actual "game"?

I think this is kind of the issue.  If they had stopped after the kickstarter and people were just mulling around excited for this game I don't think people would care.  
But it's the post after post of "now buy this ship" for a game that doesn't exist yet that sets it apart honestly.  

I mean, you can argue that other fundraising campaigns have charged lots for virtual goods that aren't promised, but the fact that they continue to do so DOES make this a different story.  I'm sure people would be buying Hex things if Hex contrinued to sel starter decks or cards with a fancy skin at $10 a pop or something, but CZE isn't selling them, and that is a genuine difference.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 01:39:07 PM
I honestly did think I answered your question, it is just in the parallel.

Aside from some minor perks and a few weeks time saved in grinding out money there will be no material difference between myself and someone who buys the game at launch.  People who bought the cheapest package will save real world money by buying it now instead of later.

I only bought the package now because I like space games, I would like a better version of EvE and I would like to support the game.

The only thing I'm going to get if it ever sees the light of day is a little satisfaction from knowing I helped a bit by supporting it.

I donate to f13 because I like the place and the vast majority of the people, there is no tangible real world benefit, it just makes me feel good to support something I like and enjoy.

If all you bought was the cheapest package to save a few dollars, then none of this really applies to you and I don't know why you threw yourself into the thick of this conversation.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on November 21, 2013, 01:41:42 PM
The Hex comparisons don't work because Hex has steadily progressed into a real game and funding stopped being the focus after the initial rounds of funding were completed.

If Hex news was 90% "here's a new way to spend money on Hex  - also we've made basically no progress on the game" then the comparison would be valid.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 21, 2013, 01:44:43 PM
If all you bought was the cheapest package to save a few dollars, then none of this really applies to you and I don't know why you threw yourself into the thick of this conversation.
By people I meant other people, I have spent more.  Regardless I really don't know why I threw myself into this discussion either.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 01:46:51 PM
Bloodworth, I have a pile of 4 Magic cards + a half-full binder that I'm probably about to sell for about $4,000 by merely making a single phone call.

That is less than I've put into Magic in the last 5 years put together and I was ranked in the top 50 in Texas in 2012-2013 with nominal playing. I took down 2 $1ks, and top 32'd multiple $5k+ tournaments (and top 16'd 3 of them). I also have an incomplete cube worth about $15,000 (as in, I could sell it right now for $15,000) that I've put about $1,000 into, if that.

Don't talk about what you don't understand. I'm obviously in the minority of Magic players, but I don't see a way to arbitrage the secondary market of a space scam in an efficient way.

The only thing egregious about Magic is that bad players keep spending money instead of making it.

I Don't play games to make a profit, if you are going to make money out of it, cool. The Secondary market? You mean the LTI ship thing? I could care less about it, personally. Not sure how its really any different then PLEX, or Wow gold really. Things I do not participate in, but others find enjoyable.

If Hex news was 90% "here's a new way to spend money on Hex  - also we've made basically no progress on the game" then the comparison would be valid.

There has been progress. But I'm starting to think you are one of those people who things frequency of posts on a forum = Time has speed up. You like to outright look at progress on this game, and dismiss it, why would anyone try to convence you otherwise? That's not my job.

If all you bought was the cheapest package to save a few dollars, then none of this really applies to you and I don't know why you threw yourself into the thick of this conversation.

That applys to me as well, because my pledge was for two people. Again, you guys are talking to the wrong people, and attributing some sort of zealot status, when it ends up more as some sort of projection.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2013, 01:52:16 PM
I love that this has turned into a Hex v. Star Citizen defense of which idea is less silly.

Currently: both still silly.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 01:53:32 PM
How much are those pack of Hex cards again? Because, for me, the Magic/Hex/Card games are the most egregious in terms of money. I mean, its right there in the rule system that you have to continually spend money to be competitive, not just to play, but to compete. But you don't see me trolling threads about it. To each his own.

I played Magic early on when it came out (Unlimited-Fallen Empire). When I quit and sold off my cards I made back probably around 3X what I had paid. My brother who had started playing shortly before me and had a Black Lotus and all the Moxes had an even bigger return on his investment obviously. Hex is a roll of the dice in that respect but the early gameplay looked good. Before the Kickstarter had ended we were able to see Twitch streams of games actually played through to completion. If (and admittedly it's a big if) the game follows a similar path as MTG, it could end up being a fun game to play for a few years but also a decent investment a few years down the road when it's time to cash out. I'm pretty confident that even if game doesn't hit it big, as long as it doesn't tank completely I could at the very least break even or make a small profit off my account.

Cool, I'm glad. Have fun. I don't troll people for playing it. Its not my thing. I Pledged to a game with no monthly fee, a single player game, and personal, modable servers.



Anyway, you guys have fun. I'll leave you all with this again:

I'd just like to note. Its not the people actually interested in this game, who are shitting up the thread.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 21, 2013, 01:57:45 PM
Since I've been (probably) the most vocal source of fundraising info lately, I guess I owe you guys an apology if you felt this was obnoxious or just free advertisment; like I said, if it helps to calm the waters a bit, I'll gladly stop. Eventually, there will be a game to talk about too (yeah, I know, I'm naive :P).

As you might have noticed in other threads, I like posting simple news (and this kind of news is pretty much all there is to it regarding Star Citizen, unless you start writing summaries about the "forum feedback" segment during Wingman's Hangar, excerpts from the development tracker and so on...but that's the "job" of a proper fansite) about games, for example Project Eternity, sometimes Wildstar and others because....duh, I like writing these kind of posts, among other things. Yeah, I'm bizarre like that.

But hey, again, no problem if, in this case, I brought this attitude to an extreme, didn't mean to.
----



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 21, 2013, 01:59:45 PM
I love that this has turned into a Hex v. Star Citizen defense of which idea is less silly.

Currently: both still silly.

I am not sure what the discussion is about anymore really. I don't think anyone here disagrees that $1000 is crazy. Whether its a released game or not.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 21, 2013, 02:06:13 PM
Since I've been (probably) the most vocal source of fundraising info lately, I guess I owe you guys an apology if you felt this was obnoxious or just free advertisment; like I said, if it helps to calm the waters a bit, I'll gladly stop. Eventually, there will be a game to talk about too (yeah, I know, I'm naive :P).

As you might have noticed in other threads, I like posting simple news (and this kind of news is pretty much all there is to it regarding Star Citizen, unless you start writing summaries about the "forum feedback" segment during Wingman's Hangar, excerpts from the development tracker and so on...but that's the "job" of a proper fansite) about games, for example Project Eternity, sometimes Wildstar and others because....duh, I like writing these kind of posts, among other things. Yeah, I'm bizarre like that.

But hey, again, no problem if, in this case, I brought this attitude to an extreme, didn't mean to.

I don't think you have to apolgies at all. You have been probably the most constructive (IE game focused, new info) contributer in this thread. Of course details about new ships are absolutely uninteresting for someone who doesn't care about the game, but this is the Star Citizen thread after all. There are entire subforums I ignore completely (Bloodbowl, LOL) as there games there offer nothing for me. That doesn't mean I am offended by their exstience or begrudge other people posting there. So why shoudl it be different in reverse for this thread?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 21, 2013, 02:10:01 PM
Since I've been (probably) the most vocal source of fundraising info lately, I guess I owe you guys an apology if you felt this was obnoxious or just free advertisment; like I said, if it helps to calm the waters a bit, I'll gladly stop. Eventually, there will be a game to talk about too (yeah, I know, I'm naive :P).

As you might have noticed in other threads, I like posting simple news (and this kind of news is pretty much all there is to it regarding Star Citizen, unless you start writing summaries about the "forum feedback" segment during Wingman's Hangar, excerpts from the development tracker and so on...but that's the "job" of a proper fansite) about games, for example Project Eternity, sometimes Wildstar and others because....duh, I like writing these kind of posts, among other things. Yeah, I'm bizarre like that.

But hey, again, no problem if, in this case, I brought this attitude to an extreme, didn't mean to.
----



I Used to do the same thing ( With many games ). Not anymore.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on November 21, 2013, 02:13:44 PM
I love that this has turned into a Hex v. Star Citizen defense of which idea is less silly.

Currently: both still silly.

I am not sure what the discussion is about anymore really. I don't think anyone here disagrees that $1000 is crazy. Whether its a released game or not.

I think the discussion is about a game that isn't out yet that continues to sell very expensive things for said game, and that the news regarding the selling of said ships seems to be the most notable news they are releasing about the game.

But some people seem to be taking it really personally.  I don't really care what people are spending on this.  But I do care about the fact that RSI seems to have developed a really iffy way of funding game development.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2013, 02:18:47 PM
I care for the reason that I have about every Kickstarter. I think they are the worst thing to happen to our hobby other than that XBONE Kinect advertising Big Brother in the living room shit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 21, 2013, 02:28:55 PM
I think the discussion is about a game that isn't out yet that continues to sell very expensive things for said game, and that the news regarding the selling of said ships seems to be the most notable news they are releasing about the game.

But some people seem to be taking it really personally.  I don't really care what people are spending on this.  But I do care about the fact that RSI seems to have developed a really iffy way of funding game development.

Ahh. It's not really true though that all (or even most) of the news is about selling ships. They are doing tons of podcasts and developer Q&A sessions. Of course some of it is lore talk and details about planned game mechanics, but I think it's natural that game development can't keep up to provide news if you do weekly updates. The game is scheduled to release in 2015. The dogfighting module is supposed to be shown this December, so far they are keeping their promises and IMHO it's a bit early to yell "Vaporeware!!".

About the business model, I don't see the issue really. They are very up front about ship selling being about funding the game and not buying yourself an advantage. And it's completely optional. If they weren't honest about that I'd agree and say 'Yes, that smells'. But that's not really the impression I got so far. In the end, the money has to come from somewhere...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 02:32:51 PM
You do know that those podcasts and Q&A sessions are basically time-share presentations, right?

If they stopped accepting money and just made the fucking game, this thread wouldn't be where it is.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Rasix on November 21, 2013, 02:32:55 PM
In the end, the money has to come from somewhere...

Then get it from traditional funding channels instead of continuing to bilk the obviously exploitable fan base.  It's disgusting.  

Will you at least be able to fly the damned spaceship you bought with the dogfighting module (provided it's not just Mike Vick in space)?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 21, 2013, 02:39:00 PM
Then get it from traditional funding channels instead of continuing to bilk the obviously exploitable fan base.  It's disgusting.  

Will you at least be able to fly the damned spaceship you bought with the dogfighting module (provided it's not just Mike Vick in space)?

I don't see what's bad about accepting money, but maybe I am too naive. I haven't been burned by trusting a developer...yet.  :why_so_serious:

Yes, that's the plan. As soon as the dogfight module is out you can take the ships in your hangar (and only those) out for a fight. First against AI only, netcode being implented early next year (I think, would have to look it up).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2013, 02:40:15 PM
Yeah at this point, they've proven there's a base. They've collected $30M. You can point to that customer base, go to any bank or equity source and get $30M more to finish the game.

You know why they don't? Because there's no interest and no equity-sharing in crowd funding, and the people are dumb enough to accept that. They aren't even getting a charitable donation writeoff either. The Red Cross should develop a game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 21, 2013, 02:57:43 PM
I think that Schild, Rasix, and now Paelos, with their latest posts, all perfectly summarized the issue, and you know, while I shelled out my large amount of money for the project, I tend to agree with their points, they're perfectly valid.

Yet, driven by my interest for the sub-genre, passion for videogames and more (yeah, maybe dumbness, among other things), I opened my wallet. In the end, I don't think there is a "middle ground", about this subject. I think we're reached a stall and it will be FAR more interesting to see, from now on, if they can "walk the talk" as you say in english, or if everything will crumble with Roberts flying to (real) space with his crew on a spaceship driven by Garriott (imagine that :D), with them recreating a typical FTL session  :why_so_serious:

Yeah, I know, I like to ruin the bickering fun like that  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Rasix on November 21, 2013, 03:01:11 PM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/82533/thumbsup.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 21, 2013, 03:58:23 PM
Something to read when bored: Jump Point (https://drive.google.com/?usp=chrome_app#folders/0B3xmT9bl4DChLTU5eV91YzhKYlU) a sort of monthly update about the game. Issues 1 to 16. I uploaded them on my google drive, feel free to grab.

I am just reading issue 1 and they were doing some sort of 24 hour live stream. But as the Cloud Imperium offices weren't finished yet so they do it out of....Richard Garriots rooms.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on November 21, 2013, 04:15:21 PM
...Jesus Christ, people.

I brought up Hex intending to humorously point out we've all got our pet games that we spend money on hoping they come to fruition. I don't care about Hex one way or the other, so I don't read about it. (In fact, I don't read it so much, I didn't even notice the forum had been hidden.)

Schild, I'm sorry. That's a sincere apology. I shouldn't have said any goddamn thing. I didn't think this would turn into a fucking fanboy pissing match.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on November 21, 2013, 04:27:52 PM
No. I think it's been good. We've all agreed the prices for ships are ludicrous.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 21, 2013, 04:37:06 PM
I am just reading issue 1 and they were doing some sort of 24 hour live stream. But as the Cloud Imperium offices weren't finished yet so they do it out of....Richard Garriots rooms.  :why_so_serious:

See? the plot thickens!  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 21, 2013, 04:51:10 PM
No. I think it's been good. We've all agreed the prices for ships are ludicrous.

My message wasn't that the prices are ludicrous.

It was that people are giving over money at those prices.

The people are the problem. Chris Roberts being a pile of stinky shit isn't the problem.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Hoax on November 21, 2013, 06:21:42 PM
I think all this illustrates a point I failed badly to make many pages ago. So I'll make another very poor attempt here.

The way that Star Citizen is doing this does damage the outlook of the game if it ever does decide to try to be a real game. The way they are bilking people over and over and over for every fucking ship they model for their space game is disgusting to most people. Its a massive fucking turn off for people outside this looking in towards the company and people who are supposedly eventually going to make a game when they decide to stop running this virtual bake sale.

In addition I believe that a game's community suffers immensely when you have people who are looking down on new players because they didn't invest super elite founder status. Nothing kills the joy in a game faster than having a segment of the community who is advocating to punish new players for being new. Which will happen. Can you imagine what the outcry will be if a $200 ship is one of the starter ship choices for example? Or what if a $100 ship is a reward for a mission you get to in the first hour? Don't lie to yourself and think there wouldn't be an internet holy war over how unfair that is to the poor founders who bled for the game and made it possible aren't getting enough of a reward.

My third point against all this is, I don't really want to play an online game where these shitlords are starting with LTE and 18 ships and super plat special gimgaws. Its less fun. I remember FF11 when they put us on established JP servers that had existed for a year. The JP's rigged the economy as much as they could to take advantage of the influx of fresh characters. It was shit. If this was ever a real game, it would be much worse.

I'll stop here but fuck this Star Citizen bake sale and fuck these founder programs in general.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: lamaros on November 21, 2013, 07:05:38 PM
The problem with this thread isn't that there's a bunch of people who don't like the 'game', it's that outside of that all the posts are simple copy pastes by Lucas and bloodworth repeating 'give us more money' spiels, often verbatim.

How irrational people can get defending silly positions is somewhat engaging, I suppose.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on November 22, 2013, 01:24:51 AM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/829607/daily/16/gochrisgo.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ironwood on November 22, 2013, 01:43:33 AM
I care for the reason that I have about every Kickstarter. I think they are the worst thing to happen to our hobby other than that XBONE Kinect advertising Big Brother in the living room shit.

Yes.  Pretty much this.  Also, I've been staggered since Schild dropped the 30 Mil figure.

That's insane.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on November 22, 2013, 06:49:02 AM
So, updates detailing what progress they've made on actually coding the game = ok, but please remove all the advertising, ship sales, and stretch goal information before you post?  It's kinda like SWTOR; I was interested in the progress of the game, but hated all the cartel market advertising they kept doing.  80% of their patch notes could be thrown away because it was cartel pricing shit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 22, 2013, 07:26:35 AM
Will you at least be able to fly the damned spaceship you bought with the dogfighting module (provided it's not just Mike Vick in space)?

That's the plan. Yes. If not have the ability to fly ALL ships at that point. Even the Dog-fighting module is supposed to be released iteratively. First editions, according to developer posts will be Single-player VS AI, with multi-player to follow as they shore up the custom netcode ( instead of using out the box CryENGINE ), then it should resemble a session based ship fighting game used to test the net, the combat/flight as they move forward.

The whole system, like the hanger, is designed to get people in early to test systems. Example: The hanger was a test bed for the Launcher/patcher, Database, ship and player animations and interactions system, early version of the ship outfitting system, and login services. Not to mention scene density and performance feedback scraping.

No. I think it's been good. We've all agreed the prices for ships are ludicrous.

That happened around page 5.

Stuff....

You Can host your own server, and not be attached to any of this. You can even mod the server ( Cheats for all! ). I Think people forget, this isn't a MMO. There is a hosted Persistent world though, that the only place any of the "bought" stuff even works.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 22, 2013, 07:58:12 AM
So, updates detailing what progress they've made on actually coding the game = ok, but please remove all the advertising, ship sales, and stretch goal information before you post?  It's kinda like SWTOR; I was interested in the progress of the game, but hated all the cartel market advertising they kept doing.  80% of their patch notes could be thrown away because it was cartel pricing shit.
The bulk of the campaign ends in four days, on the 26th.  Things will slow down dramatically after that but the next few days is going to be very busy over there as all the original backers lock in their lifetime insurance ships (even though it really isn't that big of an advantage).  They have decided that the concerns about feature creep from some of the funding goals is valid so there will be no more goals that add some crazy subsystem or functionality.  Each goal reached from now on will just fund a new ship.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yoru on November 22, 2013, 08:58:05 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/fzWm8Ak.gif)

You know, whether you're starfucking him with your dick or your MasterCard, Chris Roberts don't love you back.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 22, 2013, 09:15:18 AM
I've said nothing of the sort. That's a huge mischaracterization, and exactly the type of trolling I was talking about.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on November 22, 2013, 09:40:40 AM
Each goal reached from now on will just fund a new ship.

Well they went full ponzi.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 22, 2013, 09:49:46 AM
Each goal reached from now on will just fund a new ship.

Well they went full ponzi.

lolllllllllllllllll, I totally missed that.

I like that they can't even do this right. Stop adding content you morons and finish the game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 22, 2013, 10:28:38 AM
In the last stretch goal letter, Roberts wrote this:

Quote
For our next several stretch goals, we’re going to try something different. We are constantly asked where the additional money goes. Surely new mocap hardware or a new starship design doesn’t cost a million dollars. The answer is that the stretch goals are an example: one big thing we will be doing with some of the money. Every additional million means that we’re hiring additional artists and programmers, equipping the team with better development tools and increasing the size of the talented outsource groups being trusted with aspects of Star Citizen’s development. It means more actors and time for mocap studios, more reference for designers, greater variety in game characters, more options in clothing and armor and a large array of ship items and weapons.

Every dollar improves the project. That isn’t as sexy as spending large amounts of money on impressive, headline-grabbing stretch goals… but it means a significantly better game in the end. So, for the next several stretch goals, we’re going to leave you with the knowledge that the money goes to improving all aspects of Star Citizen’s development. Instead of specifying some new development goal, we’re going to add a new ship to the game as a reward.

Now, of course, if every additional penny will go down the Curt Schilling route, they might get in trouble :P


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on November 22, 2013, 10:54:15 AM
If?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 22, 2013, 10:54:52 AM
No space dating sim then :(


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: KallDrexx on November 22, 2013, 11:03:10 AM
I'm very confused by all the motion capture talk for a game about spaceships and space fighting....


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 22, 2013, 11:08:42 AM
Well, this is one of those rare space games where you are not just a ship.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 22, 2013, 11:09:31 AM
I'm very confused by all the motion capture talk for a game about spaceships and space fighting....

Heh, that's a problem related to another matter they really need to adress: present all the info about how mechanics and system *curently* work in a MUCH MORE cohesive way; now it's all lost in old newsposts (death mechanics, economic system, FPS ground combat and avatar customization, which is the reason of motion capturing, Kall). Don't care if everything is still under discussion, they have to start presenting the bigger picture, otherwise all is bits and pieces that obviously give the idea that everything is still just ink on paper, so to speak (damn, I'm a dinosaur).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 22, 2013, 11:37:27 AM
I understand they are ambitious, as businesspeople AND as game designers, but the motion capture thing is the first one that would bite them in the arse should the game fail to deliver under any other aspect.

"WHAT! THE LASERS ARE SHITE AND THE TRACTOR BEAMS DON'T TRACT CRAP AND THE TARGETING IS WONKY AND THE ECONOMY IS A MESS.... AND THEY SPENT MILLIONS OF MY MONEY ON MOTION CAPTUREEEEEEE!?!!!!!! %&%!&$"!$&%$!%$!$&||!!!!!!!!!"

You know what I mean? Personally, I feel it was a stupid stretch goal, no matter how much did they raise, and buying a mocap studio screams of "future projects". Which is not cool.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on November 22, 2013, 11:52:25 AM
The only stretch goal they should be working on is delivering what they have already promised. That is the very definition of stretch.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on November 22, 2013, 12:06:40 PM
Heh, no. 

They use the term "stretch goal" exactly backwards:  instead of the community (or the investors) being the coaches with the whistles and the entire dev team working hard to code and meet each of the stretch goals, Chris Roberts has the whistle and he's pushing us (the investors) to donate hard and deliver more and more millions of dollars to the project. 

I'd love to see just progress reports, but currently my impression is that they're still sitting on their butts.  For every extra million that is added, they add another feature to the list of things to do at some point in the future.  It's not like, "if you guys make donations up to 31 million by Friday, we will match the effort and code the fucking flight engine, fully coded and debugged, also by Friday."  No, it's "if you make 31 million by Friday, we'll go ahead and pen in "flight engine" to the hand-written TO DO list that Roberts has on his wall."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 22, 2013, 12:33:49 PM
I think you guys are all just MAD that CHRIS ROBERTS is SO SUCCESSFUL.  And will make the BEST GAME EVER. I will get a THOUSAND DOLLARS WORTH OF GAME out of my Idris ship.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 22, 2013, 12:34:21 PM
Shutup and make us a comic for the frontpage following the exploits of Roberts Space Industries. 12 Part series, 1 every 2 weeks. Send them to me via PM. Thanks.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 22, 2013, 12:58:45 PM
man I don't know does this come packaged with LTI??


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 22, 2013, 01:25:38 PM
I would read that  :grin:

Regarding the ambition, yep, that surely is an area they don't lack. I agree that a Mocap studio wasn't really a thing they needed (plus, I'm old enough that I still bear playing games on a C64, I don't really need the latest tech), but Roberts, on that front, seem quite stuck in the "Origin glory days" (I know, I shouldn't get Schild started on that "hive of scum and villainy" that "polluted the Austin videogaming area"...or something) with the (for that time) big budget space operas and games like the later Wing Commander-s.

The "experienced developers = great game" equation of course often fails. Yep, this might be another case, we'll see. Now, 90% of those working on both projects (S42 and SC) already worked on Wing Commanders, Privateers, Starlancer and Freelancer, so I HOPE THEY HAVE A "VAGUE" IDEA of what they need to do to publish a good game on the same vein.

But of course, with publishing a game comes other business and planning decisions (plus, yes, times change, we're not in the '90s anymore), so we'll see if Chris Roberts will get the "Curt Schilling" achievement or not, bloody sock and everything.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 22, 2013, 02:39:47 PM
I understand they are ambitious, as businesspeople AND as game designers, but the motion capture thing is the first one that would bite them in the arse should the game fail to deliver under any other aspect.

"WHAT! THE LASERS ARE SHITE AND THE TRACTOR BEAMS DON'T TRACT CRAP AND THE TARGETING IS WONKY AND THE ECONOMY IS A MESS.... AND THEY SPENT MILLIONS OF MY MONEY ON MOTION CAPTUREEEEEEE!?!!!!!! %&%!&$"!$&%$!%$!$&||!!!!!!!!!"

You know what I mean? Personally, I feel it was a stupid stretch goal, no matter how much did they raise, and buying a mocap studio screams of "future projects". Which is not cool.

They explained a while ago, that this was cheaper/more cost effective than renting the space/studio time. Numbers and all. They spent $150,000 on the equipment.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 22, 2013, 02:55:19 PM
Except no one gives a fuck about motion capture in a game of this kind. A FLYING SPACE FUCK. There are too many important factors to even remotly care about the motion capture. So it could have costed 1 dollar or five trillion dollars and it would still be wasted money until you can prove that all the other things you have promised to be amazing actually happen to be.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 22, 2013, 02:58:33 PM
Except no one gives a fuck about motion capture in a game of this kind. A FLYING SPACE FUCK. There are too many important factors to even remotly care about the motion capture. So it could have costed 1 dollar or five trillion dollars and it would still be wasted money until you can prove that all the other things you have promised to be amazing actually happen to be.

You can get out of your ship. This is not Eve. No one gives a fuck except those interested in space sim that allows you to get out of your ship. Its all part of the game.

Update videos about it.

Star Citizen - Behind the scenes with the Motion Capture (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBJA4yjzSPI)

Inside Cloud Imperium Games . Mocap Update . Bryan Brewer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa1gyzNfy9k)

Its been part of the game-play since before it was announced, and game-play was shown in 2012 GDC.

Star Citizen - Gameplay (GDC 2012)  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92rb-8mYHE0)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 22, 2013, 03:01:51 PM
Just posted on the official website: presentation of the "Foundry 42" team, in charge of the single-player game, SQ42. Most of them were on the Starlancer and Privateer 2 teams that, yeah, we can say were the "weaker" titles of the entire Roberts catalogue (although both titles didn't really have Roberts at the helm).

Around the 1:29 mark, you can see what I assume is an early written draft of (possibly) the opening sequence of the game...Or maybe just a random cutscene.

http://youtu.be/V8jfVhjC2Xs


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samwise on November 22, 2013, 04:41:45 PM
Except no one gives a fuck about motion capture in a game of this kind. A FLYING SPACE FUCK. There are too many important factors to even remotly care about the motion capture. So it could have costed 1 dollar or five trillion dollars and it would still be wasted money until you can prove that all the other things you have promised to be amazing actually happen to be.

You can get out of your ship. This is not Eve. No one gives a fuck except those interested in space sim that allows you to get out of your ship. Its all part of the game.

Update videos about it.

This would be a great time for you to use your words to provide a summary of what gameplay is available outside of your ship, so that people who don't give a fuck can at least understand why somebody else might.  Ain't nobody got time to click on a bunch of YouTube videos and watch them all the way through when a couple of quick sentences could convey the desired information.

Have I posted this in this thread yet?  Somebody was saying something about the proven track record of the people behind this scam and this is what came to mind.

(http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/i-jbBQTJT/0/950x10000/i-jbBQTJT-950x10000.jpg)



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on November 22, 2013, 07:22:43 PM
I think you guys are all just MAD that CHRIS ROBERTS is SO SUCCESSFUL.  And will make the BEST GAME EVER. I will get a THOUSAND DOLLARS WORTH OF GAME out of my Idris ship.

The end of 2014 will be a glorious time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 22, 2013, 07:50:17 PM
Except no one gives a fuck about motion capture in a game of this kind. A FLYING SPACE FUCK. There are too many important factors to even remotly care about the motion capture. So it could have costed 1 dollar or five trillion dollars and it would still be wasted money until you can prove that all the other things you have promised to be amazing actually happen to be.
You can't really make a 3D game with human models without motion capture these days.  It is expected, anything else looks like janky wolfenstien era crap.  The costs have come down so much that if you have enough animation that needs to be modeled it's probably cheaper than trying to get animators to poorly imitate what the motion would like frame by frame.

As stated this isn't EvE.  You are a person not a ship.  You have to walk to your ship, climb into it, sit down, manipulate controls.  They need animation for all of that, animation for combat with guns (personal guns not ships), animation for hopping into sleeping pods, animation for jumping into and using turrets.  There are ships in the game that take a dozen crew members, there are carrier ships that have other ships in them that you have to run to and jump in.  There is also an entire single player game with characters, plot, cut scenes etc that they have to complete.

If they weren't using motion capture everyone would criticize about how "Holy crap you mean they have thirty million but can't spare a couple hundred grand so that the animations don't look like shit lololol".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 22, 2013, 07:52:46 PM
I think you guys are all just MAD that CHRIS ROBERTS is SO SUCCESSFUL.  And will make the BEST GAME EVER. I will get a THOUSAND DOLLARS WORTH OF GAME out of my Idris ship.

The end of 2014 will be a glorious time.

I know I should let that argument die, but this is really puzzles me. I always thought the "This is a SCAAM!!" people were being tongue-in-cheek. Do you really think it's not coming out?

The worst possible scenario I can imagine is the MWO one, potentially fun game (wee Mechs!) ruined by a totally inept design team that seems to be in over their head (both manpower and actually skill wise) , whacky balance (boating, PPC), stupid solutions to fix those problems and on top of that bad netcode and basic features that never materlise (Is there UI 2.0 out yet? Directx 11?).

While I personally don't expect that, this outcome its possible. But, in MWO's case I still played it over 300+ hours,  spent >150$ on the mechs and enjoyed it immensely. So what is the terrible that thing that I have to be afraid of regarding SC?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 22, 2013, 09:07:54 PM
My actual for serious guess is that it will probably go through one or two token delays, have lots of extreme (but transparent) foibles as they test out dogfighting and see what happens when their grand schemes get traduced down to the most mechanically efficient ways to cheese, go through a Great Contraction where they have to scramble to scale back their ambitious plans into a working model, and by then we'll know from the modules if its going to be a good, ok, or shit game, and we can hedge our bets on the apoplexy of the insane backers on that measure.

I'll make comics until i have a ship.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 22, 2013, 09:33:41 PM
So what is the terrible that thing that I have to be afraid of regarding SC?

You have no recourse whatsoever if this thing doesn't even get released on schedule, with any of the features promised, or with any of the items promised.

See if you bought a product, you'd have consumer protection laws. Or if you were an investor you'd have the right to sue for fraud. Or if you were a banker you'd be entitled to recourse on your money through legal means.

None of that exists with these things. It's literally the worst possible way ever to get something done. If a game can't get made on its own merits without turning into a welfare case, it doesn't deserve to exist.

Oh and what's worse? If the gaming world sees this as viable, we all get fucked right on down the river. They already look for ways to screw over gamers because they know for a fact the majority of us are walking wallets with no sense of financial responsibility, but for the ones who actually have a problem with this kind of thing, our only recourse is to leave the hobby until the sheep stop getting sheared, and start getting gutted.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 22, 2013, 10:13:35 PM
So what is the terrible that thing that I have to be afraid of regarding SC?

You have no recourse whatsoever if this thing doesn't even get released on schedule, with any of the features promised, or with any of the items promised.

See if you bought a product, you'd have consumer protection laws. Or if you were an investor you'd have the right to sue for fraud. Or if you were a banker you'd be entitled to recourse on your money through legal means.

None of that exists with these things. It's literally the worst possible way ever to get something done. If a game can't get made on its own merits without turning into a welfare case, it doesn't deserve to exist.


I totally agree with these points, but doesn't that apply to any sort of Kickstarter type crowdfunding? You actually said in this thread you disapprove of gaming Kickstarters, which I why understand your reasoning the most. SC funding is very much Kickstarter expanded so this is only a consequent position.

Maybe others feel that way too, but so far I thought the crowdfunding/kickstarter idea was very well received on this forum, with various people pledging for different games, so the derisviness in this thread took me a bit by surprise.

I am totally aware that to a big degree I am trusting for an idea to work out, but overall I don't see much difference to Day 1 purchase I got burned with. DA2 was a full price purchase, turned out I hated it from the tutorial onward and 5-6 hours later I dropped it. I don't see that happening here...even the most stale FPS/flying SIM/space SIM will get dozens of hours of out me.

And again, we are not talking about 1000$ pledge people, which I feel are becoming a bit of a straw man here.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on November 23, 2013, 01:08:09 AM
Why are they pushing so many polygons is my question. My guess is so it runs like crap for everyone.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Velorath on November 23, 2013, 02:28:35 AM
So what is the terrible that thing that I have to be afraid of regarding SC?

You have no recourse whatsoever if this thing doesn't even get released on schedule, with any of the features promised, or with any of the items promised.

See if you bought a product, you'd have consumer protection laws. Or if you were an investor you'd have the right to sue for fraud. Or if you were a banker you'd be entitled to recourse on your money through legal means.

None of that exists with these things. It's literally the worst possible way ever to get something done. If a game can't get made on its own merits without turning into a welfare case, it doesn't deserve to exist.


I totally agree with these points, but doesn't that apply to any sort of Kickstarter type crowdfunding? You actually said in this thread you disapprove of gaming Kickstarters, which I why understand your reasoning the most. SC funding is very much Kickstarter expanded so this is only a consequent position.

Maybe others feel that way too, but so far I thought the crowdfunding/kickstarter idea was very well received on this forum, with various people pledging for different games, so the derisviness in this thread took me a bit by surprise.

I am totally aware that to a big degree I am trusting for an idea to work out, but overall I don't see much difference to Day 1 purchase I got burned with. DA2 was a full price purchase, turned out I hated it from the tutorial onward and 5-6 hours later I dropped it. I don't see that happening here...even the most stale FPS/flying SIM/space SIM will get dozens of hours of out me.

And again, we are not talking about 1000$ pledge people, which I feel are becoming a bit of a straw man here.

I'm more or less ok with Kickstarters, but whenever I've seen a Kickstarter project that needs to do a second round of funding (aside from slacker backer packages or simple pre-orders) it always sends up a red flag to me. It shows that maybe the scope of the project was too ambitious, or the people in charge just sucked at budgeting. Star Citizen has had a non-stop year-long second round of funding with some of the most aggressive salesmanship I've ever seen when I watch the youtube videos of some of those ships being announced. I know Bloodworth will say something about how the Kickstarter amount was really just for some proof of concept kinda thing and that the real game was always going to cost this much, but why shouldn't they have just stopped at the proof of concept at first and then proven that they had a fucking concept?

The sheer scope of what they're promising would be difficult for even big publishers and developers to pull off let alone a guy whose best work is close to two decades ago. They're already breaking this thing up into modules so instead of saying "hey let's take as much money from you guys up front as we possibly can and we'll give you a space simulator with a single player story mode, a persistent multiplayer game, you can get out of the ships and walk around and fight on foot, and we'll make all these ships, and do all this mo-cap work, etc..." why didn't they just say "hey, were're going to put out this dog-fighting module so you guys can see the core gameplay and if that's good then we'll start funding something more ambitious stuff, or we might even be able to sell enough of this dog-fighting game to non-backers that you guys don't have to take the whole financial burden upon yourselves".

They don't need the extra money at this point and they certainly don't need to keep squeezing it out of their loyal fans right now when it's been pointed out that they should be able to get funding from other sources if they find they really need it. Now they're just taking money from you guys because they can. They're doing it because every time they offer a new ship people lap that shit up so they're just going to keep riding the gravy train until it goes off the rails. They're at the point where they can't even offer reasonable details on how continued funding actually benefits the game it's just "we'll hire some more people and add some more ships in". Maybe at one point Chris Roberts really did just want to make a Space sim, and when I first heard about the project it sounded like something I might like to play. It's taken on such an air of them viewing their customers as open wallets full of free money they get to play with though that I wouldn't even touch this game now.

Many people dislike EA because of how it's perceived that they view their customers. That's more or less how I feel about these guys. The fact that they've then got a lot of their fans happily posting links for them on forums like this advertising the cool new $250 ship that just got announced or whatever just makes it that much worse. It's a similar feeling as the one I get when I see the Free Stress Test table set up outside the grocery store or in the mall.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: KallDrexx on November 23, 2013, 05:43:15 AM
And again, we are not talking about 1000$ pledge people, which I feel are becoming a bit of a straw man here.

You can't just hand wave high spenders as a straw man.  Normally released games cost $60.  People who spend $20-30 on a kickstarter is no big deal because they are essentially pre-ordering a game at a reasonable price.  However, SC is different because if you look at their store and their website they aren't getting their millions of dollars from $20-30 donations, people are paying upwards of $150 for spaceships for a game they've seen very little gameplay with.  You can find real proof of a lot of people spending a LOT of money on this game (and a lot post kick-starter) which makes the high spenders very much a non-strawman.

I also agree with Velorath.  Most companies suck at making single player games and most companies suck at making MMOs.  MMOs alone are ridiculously hard and expensive.  It's hard to find numbers for most MMOs but Rift's executives say it cost $50 million to create, Curt Shilling (while an idiot for other reasons too) went bankrupt trying to finance an MMO, etc...  Even those games are not in the same vein as SC it's still applicable and shows that they are hard to succeed in.  So now you have promises of both an amazing singleplayer game but also an amazing MMO.  Not only that they are proposing making both an amazing space dogfighting game, economy game, and a first person shooter all in one go.  If they were planning to stagger the release 2-3 games out of it, each full games with a natural progression between them, then I would actually be a lot more inclined to think that their ambitions could be realized but instead they are trying to do everything at one time and not really giving them the chance to fully release a game and see where they went wrong and gather post-mortems for the next spot (the modules don't count because they are singular modules and don't test integration between systems).

You guys keep talking about motion capture being necessary and yet this forum always laughed when Eve was talking about allowing you to walk in stations.  The new X game added walk in stations and everyone absolutely hates it (and no, better animations wouldn't have made it better because it's utterly pointless and pain in the ass). 

Finally, it seems that everyone forgets that we are way out of the age of the gaming rockstar.  Most of the well known game designers from years past who made a name for themselves have not really adapted well, and most of them that have put their names to products recently have not done very well.  It doesn't bode well either that Chris Roberts has been out of game development for so long and then decided to come back and yet everyone thinks he'll be space jesus.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on November 23, 2013, 06:06:00 AM


Maybe others feel that way too, but so far I thought the crowdfunding/kickstarter idea was very well received on this forum, with various people pledging for different games, so the derisviness in this thread took me a bit by surprise.

It's already been said, but it boils down to the feeling that the development of the game has become a vehicle for selling ships.  It seems like the news people get "excited" for (not just here mind you, I'm part of another community with some die hard SC fans) is "Another ship I can buy!" rather than someone that actually has to do with development progress.  I guess people got excited for the hangar module, but people walked around for 15 minutes and then went back to thinking about which ships they could buy to they could look at them in their hangar.


If the kickstarter ended and that was that, I don't think anyone would care.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 23, 2013, 06:59:05 AM
This is how the most recent Star Citizen newsletter looks like covering the last FIVE days. Out of 10 topics 7 are about money and ship sales: "Rare chances", "Limited editions" and "Crown Jewels!". 1 is about lore, 1 is about community, 1 is probably about graphics.

Get it?

It's not f13 that is sinking contents into a bickering thread. It's them, they are sinking it into their stupid greed.
The probem is, they baited you into thinking that the fact they are so focused on sales is a GOOD THING for the game and it means it will just be a better product thanks to the additional money. This is the very nature of a Ponzi scheme, isn't it? Convincing you, basically, that carpet bombing/advertising bring benefits to everyone, and turning everyone who invested into a believer and pretty much hiring you for free as agents who will spread out free advertising for the company. But the only one benefitting from the sales is the top of the pyramid and as in any scheme of this kind it works because everyone else who is not the top of the pyramid refuses to see this, blinded by hopes of an ultimate gain (in this case the 'gain' is the game ame not just delivering, but becoming better and better).

That newsletter is an insult. Roberts needs someone to tell him to stop this bullshit. But instead every time you don't tell Roberts to stop the fucking push for new ships and limited editions you are looking like fools who have invested too much to admit this is ridiculous and unacceptable, and are at the same time buying into his idea that the more money HE makes the better the game is going to be. Which makes no sense, especially with already more than 25M in the bank. Make the fuckin game already, if it's any good you can ask for more money later. Hell, can't wait to throw money at a great space multiplayer sandbox myself if it ever gets released.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3584773/Star%20Citizen%20newsletter.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 23, 2013, 07:16:36 AM
Uff, I think you guys worried about the game are already more involved than those who pre-orderd. I am the only one left "arguing" and I am not really doing that either, I just wanted to understand what the some peoples issues where exactly.

Edit:
Quote
The probem is, they baited you into thinking that the fact they are so focused on sales is a GOOD THING for the game and it means it will just be a better product thanks to the additional money. This is the very nature of a Ponzi scheme, isn't it? Convincing you, basically, that carpet bombing/advertising bring benefits to everyone, and turning everyone who invested into a believer and pretty much hiring you for free as agents who will spread out free advertising for the company. But the only one benefitting from the sales is the top of the pyramid and as in any scheme of this kind it works because everyone else who is not the top of the pyramid refuses to see this, blinded by hopes of an ultimate gain (in this case the 'gain' is the game ame not just delivering, but becoming better and better).
Ok, that is just pure projecting and ascribing motivations to people.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 23, 2013, 07:30:57 AM
Then why are you not annoyed at all the money stuff?

EDIT: Also, I don't question anyone's motivations. I think your objective judgement (about the business model) is held hostage by your massive hopes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 23, 2013, 07:52:13 AM
This is how the most recent Star Citizen newsletter looks like covering the last FIVE days. Out of 10 topics 7 are about money and ship sales: "Rare chances", "Limited editions" and "Crown Jewels!". 1 is about lore, 1 is about community, 1 is probably about graphics.

Get it?
Again, the main campaign ends in three days.  All of those ships are ones that despite being a "ponzi scheme" are not typically available for purchase, they are bringing them back for these last few days before the original backers' perks expire and trust me, the original backers want to know about them.  Even if you don't want to spend any more money right now is your last chance to sell back ships you already own and buy one of these (which you can do).  So if you always wanted the Gladiator but didn't get to buy one you can swap it out for the Freelancer you settled on.

You are looking at the last frantic gasp of activity before things settle down, the 26th is going to be bonkers.  This isn't the ideal time to form opinions about money, it would be like going to a mall on black Friday and assuming every day must be that nuts.

Then why are you not annoyed at all the money stuff?

EDIT: Also, I don't question anyone's motivations. I think your objective judgement (about the business model) is held hostage by your massive hopes.
Why would I care about how other people spend their money?  It's not like they're putting a gun to anyone's head.  Unless you seriously think this is a ponzi scheme in which Roberts has a swiss bank account that he is funneling the money into why would you care what a bunch of overly optimistic fans donate to?  I'm always amazed and stunned that they keep getting more people and more money, I never imagined so many people out there also wanted a half decent persistent space sim.  There are like 310,000 backers now.

And I don't have massive hopes.  My expectation is that a year or two after it launches it will be a better game than EvE.  "Better game than EvE" is a really low bar.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Job601 on November 23, 2013, 08:19:57 AM
I anticipate this game having terrible performance and major technical problems. I saw the quote where Roberts said that this would be a old school "pc" game -- well, I remember the era of PC games before console ports took over.  A big part of what made companies like id and blizzard popular was that their games actually worked, while EA and Origin would consistently shoot for the moon performance-wise and end up putting out buggy messes.  I'll make a prediction now:  no matter how good the design is, the story about this game in the first six months after its release is going to be about game-breaking hardware requirements and bugs.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 23, 2013, 08:23:21 AM
Unless you seriously think this is a ponzi scheme in which Roberts has a swiss bank account that he is funneling the money into why would you care what a bunch of overly optimistic fans donate to?

I do honestly believe this is in the realm of possibility, given the updates and marketing involved.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 23, 2013, 08:48:48 AM
I anticipate this game having terrible performance and major technical problems.

I Personally believe the method they are using for development will minimize this. The iterative release to the public/backers in theory is more manageable then tossing out an entire game at once and THEN working out how to address issues. Its already happened with the Hanger module. They test, profile and correct at every step, and backers are able to see every bit of it, and test in a "live" environment. The machine they own.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 23, 2013, 09:51:27 AM
I anticipate this game having terrible performance and major technical problems. I saw the quote where Roberts said that this would be a old school "pc" game -- well, I remember the era of PC games before console ports took over.  A big part of what made companies like id and blizzard popular was that their games actually worked, while EA and Origin would consistently shoot for the moon performance-wise and end up putting out buggy messes.  I'll make a prediction now:  no matter how good the design is, the story about this game in the first six months after its release is going to be about game-breaking hardware requirements and bugs.

Quite likely, in a good and a bad way. Good in the sense that it might replace Crysis as the benchmarking game du jour, something to drive up hardware sales and push some boundaries. PC gaming has been held back quite a bit by the need to be console portable, especially the last years with the current consoles being ever more apart from a modern high end gaming setup. Even the "next gen" ones are graphic performance wise only on a rough level with Radeon 7750. Meh!

In the "its buggy" sense (which I think was what you meant) I agree. Besides the "OMG Ponzi scheme" hysterics here (yes, I said it) there was another argument insofar that they are promising quite a lot, biting of more than they can chew. That's a fear that holds some merit (imho), so them pushing it out in an unoptimized, buggy state wouldn't surprise me.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 23, 2013, 12:56:05 PM
A primary, legitimate concern is that cryengine hasn't been used on a game like this before.  The human model planetside, space station, hangar stuff will work fine because cryengine has a lot of solid work there but trying to use it as a basis for space ships is unproven territory.  The 3D models look great sitting on a hangar floor but actually flying is a whole other ball game.  If the game winds up being a completely broken piece of garbage I'm predicting it will mostly be because they weren't able to make cryengine work with very fast moving large objects in zero gravity.  My concern is that it will wind up being like the Hero engine in that it needs so much work and customization that it turns out to be an unworkable nightmare.

Quite frankly we will probably know within three months if the game will sink or swim.  The initial release of the dog fighting module next month will be really rough and if they can't fix it with patches the game is doomed.

That said they had no choice but to use someone else's graphic 3D engine.  Even with thirty million they wouldn't be able to code their own.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 23, 2013, 01:33:02 PM
Honestly we can all be eye to eye on this more than we think. We like to discuss games, not the neverending telethon before the game

We have people on the lines right now to accept your call, it's your funding that make this possible, all this great programming, carl, just tell us about what these kickstarter funds make possible. Tell us what new backers get if they pledge at or above this level.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samwise on November 23, 2013, 02:31:40 PM
That said they had no choice but to use someone else's graphic 3D engine.  Even with thirty million they wouldn't be able to code their own.

 :uhrr:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ironwood on November 23, 2013, 03:48:28 PM
I have one you can have for five million.

It's in the Garage.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on November 23, 2013, 05:12:54 PM
Quote
Good in the sense that it might replace Crysis as the benchmarking game du jour, something to drive up hardware sales and push some boundaries. PC gaming has been held back quite a bit by the need to be console portable,

PC gaming isn't held back by the graphics.
PC gaming is held back by the XBOX/PS controller.




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Quinton on November 23, 2013, 05:26:22 PM
That said they had no choice but to use someone else's graphic 3D engine.  Even with thirty million they wouldn't be able to code their own.

As much as their endless fundraising by selling crazy-expensive exclusive ships strikes me as laughable, there are plenty of serious AAA projects with far larger budgets than 30M which did not build the 3d engine from scratch.  Building a modern, all-bells-and-whistles 3d engine from scratch, integrating a content pipeline, ensuring it works with a wide range of video cards, and performance tuning it is a huge undertaking.  Licensing an engine seems like a completely reasonable choice.  It does, as others point out, run the risk of the engine not being a good fit for what you're trying to build.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on November 23, 2013, 05:42:26 PM
I'd be surprised if CryEngine is an issue. If they aren't competent enough to make CryEngine work for this kind of game then they aren't competent enough to make their own engine either.

Space games are pretty easy to make in some ways - you have almost no level design, pathing is simple, rigid objects are easy to animate. If anything it seems like the problem they are having with CryEngine right now is "hey, CryEngine is pretty good at making FPS games, so why don't we put some FPS gameplay into this?"

I suspect the big problem is going to be that it just doesn't come together as a game. Right now they have all these fertile imaginations about how are all these different kinds of ships are going to work together to form an interesting and coherent space game, but there's a good chance that when they put everything together it's going to turn out that half the ships are useless or don't make sense in the context of the gameplay that emerges.

Rather than coming up with the basics of a game and saying "ground installations are very important in our implementation, so maybe we should make a couple of cool bombing ships that specialize in taking out structures" it's more "guys I had a cool idea for a bomber that I drew on a napkin, let's model it and imagine the fun you'll have bombing stuff!"

Creating a series of vertical slices and smushing them together is not a good way to make a game, nor is creating a bunch of ships before you have any real way to use them in-engine.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Quinton on November 23, 2013, 06:45:18 PM
I'd be surprised if CryEngine is an issue. If they aren't competent enough to make CryEngine work for this kind of game then they aren't competent enough to make their own engine either.

Space games are pretty easy to make in some ways - you have almost no level design, pathing is simple, rigid objects are easy to animate. If anything it seems like the problem they are having with CryEngine right now is "hey, CryEngine is pretty good at making FPS games, so why don't we put some FPS gameplay into this?"

That's a good point -- if your space game depends on some kind of huge static level design you're doing it wrong and if not it's not exactly rocket science to do some basic identification of local/relevant objects (in, as you point out, a generally very sparse "world") and letting the engine handle those -- after all a modern engine is going to have reasonable LOD and asset cache management.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 23, 2013, 09:05:44 PM
IIRCC, they never said "we can't make one" they said "Middle ware engines are able to do what we need now". The GDC game play was all in engine. So, it looks like they already have flight/space in and working way back then. I'm sure it needs refinement, he said as much.

It also does not hurt that for the most part, they have made this game before, with Freelancer. Microsoft cut it down though.

Rather than coming up with the basics of a game and saying "ground installations are very important in our implementation, so maybe we should make a couple of cool bombing ships that specialize in taking out structures" it's more "guys I had a cool idea for a bomber that I drew on a napkin, let's model it and imagine the fun you'll have bombing stuff!"

Bombers are for Capital ships. For the most part, they are following the Wing commander/freelancer system as far as ships go and what eats what, from what I can see.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Azazel on November 23, 2013, 11:12:00 PM
:ye_gods:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on November 24, 2013, 06:06:35 AM
I don't think this is a scam. I've got personal concerns with crowdfunding that pushes the financial risk off the people who will financially benefit from a successful outcome and onto its customer base. You need some crowdsourced money to finish a game you've been working on, ala FTL? Okay, that's good. You want to fund an entire AAA title using a system that actively rewards promoting the biggest scope and largest number of features you can possibly fit in a game by getting players to pay for pre-pre-pre-alpha? No, that rubs me the wrong way.

Plus SC has promised a lot of features. Players are rightly going to be pissed that they payed for a $150 space ship only to find that the feature set they thought they were getting are aren't there when SC launches. And we haven't even got into gameplay balancing or in-game economy or a host of other features that trip up every title.

Even assuming that it's cheaper for an indie to develop a title than a publisher-backed studio (due to less oversight, less management) SC is going to need to keep earning money from pre-selling things if they are going to develop based on their scope. They have 12 months of development left, including the launch. They are spending the money they are getting. So more things are going to be put up for sale all the way up to launch (unless SC starts taking on investors / publishers, which will just send SC backers INSANE).

But regardless, I'm watching SC as an example of a title that promises players the BEST GAME EVAH based on the reputation of a developer who hasn't done anything in games for a while now. F13 mocks MMOs for promising the Moon and eventually - late and over-budget - delivering a slightly damaged paper mache sphere. SC is on target to fall into the same traps.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: satael on November 24, 2013, 06:32:49 AM
I haven't been following this too closely so I'm a bit unsure as to where all the ships you pay for now are used since it's not a MMO and contains a single player game (and privately hosted servers if I understood correctly)?



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 24, 2013, 06:38:06 AM
I haven't been following this too closely so I'm a bit unsure as to where all the ships you pay for now are used since it's not a MMO and contains a single player game (and privately hosted servers if I understood correctly)?

In Star Citizen itself - which is also refered to the as PU (persistent universe). I don't think they will be available in the single player part (dubbed Squadron 42) as that's a linear story based Wing Commander game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on November 24, 2013, 08:55:13 AM
I haven't been following this too closely so I'm a bit unsure as to where all the ships you pay for now are used since it's not a MMO and contains a single player game (and privately hosted servers if I understood correctly)?



I've heard some stuff about privately hosted servers too, but can't find information about it.  Can anyone elaborate?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 24, 2013, 09:05:30 AM
I haven't been following this too closely so I'm a bit unsure as to where all the ships you pay for now are used since it's not a MMO and contains a single player game (and privately hosted servers if I understood correctly)?



I've heard some stuff about privately hosted servers too, but can't find information about it.  Can anyone elaborate?

You can host your own PU, and mod it. That's the only info at the moment.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on November 24, 2013, 10:28:49 AM
I don't think this is a scam.

I think few KS projects are outright scams but the majority of them play fast and loose with the money they get or are for projects they know in their heart-of-hearts are vastly over-promising. When you get a bunch of free money free from obligations at no point do you really have to consider things like budget, scope and schedule.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Speedy Cerviche on November 24, 2013, 11:17:43 AM

That said they had no choice but to use someone else's graphic 3D engine.  Even with thirty million they wouldn't be able to code their own.

These guys raised like $60,000 and are doing their own 3d graphic engine...

http://melee.org/


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on November 24, 2013, 11:51:11 AM
It's funny though, moral hazard is considered a big thing in economics and whatnot, yet in Kickstarter nobody even considers it. I guess it takes a Curt Schilling to pull the wool.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samwise on November 24, 2013, 11:55:21 AM
I made a 3D game engine for an undergrad CS class.  It wasn't a whizbang Crytek engine or anything, but the basics are not hard any more.

Guns of Icarus got $35k from their kickstarter, and they have a working (and very fun) game with ships you can walk around on AND pilot with other people.  (They used Unity.)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Merusk on November 24, 2013, 01:01:21 PM

That said they had no choice but to use someone else's graphic 3D engine.  Even with thirty million they wouldn't be able to code their own.

These guys raised like $60,000 and are doing their own 3d graphic engine...

http://melee.org/

Hey now, nobody claimed it was 100% for financial reasons.  All those salesmen and artists cost a lot and no matter how much you pay them to code they can't do it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on November 24, 2013, 01:23:51 PM
That said they had no choice but to use someone else's graphic 3D engine.  Even with thirty million they wouldn't be able to code their own.

IIRCC, they never said "we can't make one" they said "Middle ware engines are able to do what we need now". The GDC game play was all in engine.

Off the top of my head I can name three full-fledged MMORPGs that shipped with budgets under $20 million, including original and proprietary client engines and server architectures. EDIT: And all "first-time projects" from their teams as well.

None of them are anywhere close to SC's level of graphical whizbangery, of course.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Quinton on November 24, 2013, 03:04:24 PM
Yeah, my assumption on "you'd almost certainly license an engine" was based on the assumption that they want super-fancy, shiny, pull-out-all-the-stops, latest-generation rendering features, and sufficient performance that you can get a reasonable number of those super-shiny ships on screen at once.  Certainly you could build a much simpler engine from scratch for less.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on November 25, 2013, 08:30:40 AM
Quote
Good in the sense that it might replace Crysis as the benchmarking game du jour, something to drive up hardware sales and push some boundaries. PC gaming has been held back quite a bit by the need to be console portable,

PC gaming isn't held back by the graphics.
PC gaming is held back by the XBOX/PS controller.


PC gaming is held back by business interests. A lot easier to have centralized QC when you control the hardware and the storefront. And when I say "easier", I mean "justify from a business POV". Because without benefitting from licensing residuals and software rev share, it's nigh impossible to get resources to centralize QC from management. Why should they care when it doesn't hit the top nor bottom line? This is whitespace from which ID and Blizzard and then Steam all entered... and then passed through on their way to consoles.

Apple did not develop from scratch a hardware / app store model the rest of the mobile industry picked up.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 25, 2013, 02:17:23 PM
Tomorrow there will be a 4-hour livestream for the last day of the LTI ships sale, starting at 11am PST (8pm CET). Beside the final sale of previously unreleased ships, apparently we're gonna get a first look at new stuff they've been working on. Fingers crossed for a preview of the dogfighting module in action (and who knows, maybe a tentative release date for it.).

The channel to watch should be this (the same they use for Wingman's Hangar):

http://it.twitch.tv/roberts_space_ind_ch_1

(maybe they'll add more, plus a Youtube video channel).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 25, 2013, 04:41:37 PM
I think that sums up the debate:  :grin:


(http://i.imgur.com/H1zV0ak.png)

I made that myself! With the Photoshop Paint.Net!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 25, 2013, 04:43:52 PM
Needs to be surrounded by $$$$$$$$ on the borders.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on November 25, 2013, 05:25:02 PM
I was ahead of the curve, and also retro. (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=22591.msg1125844#msg1125844)

Which makes me a double-hipster!  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: lamaros on November 25, 2013, 06:33:30 PM
Hipsters are ahead of any curves?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 25, 2013, 07:12:43 PM
Hes a profit!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 25, 2013, 09:37:07 PM
:(


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Rasix on November 25, 2013, 11:36:14 PM
Man, I hope that was intentional.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 26, 2013, 12:41:53 AM
Quote
PLEASE NOTE: due to FinCEN regulations, packages over $1,000 can not be gifted. This includes the Idris-P corvette, so do not purchase one expecting to transfer it to another account! You can check for Idris availability here.

4 rounds of 100 Idris ships being sold across the day. Watch me be completely unsurprised when they sell out.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 26, 2013, 04:03:17 AM
Nice, I like the look of the "Merchantman" ship of the Banu race:


Hopefully, with the transition to the in-engine version, the ship will keep its coolness :)
----

Regarding how the official persistent universe server of SC will function, in case you missed it, here's a portion of a post quoted by Bloodworth about a year ago. I think it might be of some interest in order to post some more gameplay-oriented stuff. Mind you, it's not for the tl;dr crew :P. Of course things may have changed during the last twelve months, although I think the basic approach will stay the same.

Quote
But me being me, I wanted to combine things I like about the promise of a MMO, but avoid the aspects that I’m not so keen on like splintered player groups, griefing and grinding. I also was really impressed with how Demon’s Souls merged the single player experience with the multiplayer side.

 

All of this helped form my thinking on how Star Citizen is going to balance the difficult balancing act between multiplayer and single player.

All multiplayer games – whether they are a persistent world massively multiplayer game (MMO) like World of Warcraft or just an online multiplayer game like Battlefield 3 – have a limit to the number of players that can be active in anyone area or level. This number is usually inversely proportional to the amount of data that needs to go between the client and the server. For a game with complex physics and a fully destructible terrain, like Battlefield 3 the number of players that can active in an instance is less than a game with less real time fidelity like WoW, or Eve on Line.  But in all cases there are always more players than any one server instance can handle. For a persistent multiplayer world like WoW the solution is to split up the player base into more manageable groups called “shards”, which are a permanent instance of the universe that look after a certain amount of players.

One thing I don’t like about most MMO structures is the fragmentation of the player base between these “shards”. If you had joined much later than a friend of yours, there may not be room on his world instance anymore and you have to join another parallel one and so cannot play together. This is one of the nice things about the Eve Online design – everyone plays in the same universe.

In Star Citizen there is going to be one persistent universe server that everyone exists on. So you will never be separated from your friends, and if you want you’ll be able to join up and adventure together, you can.  Due to the fidelity of the dogfighting and physics simulation we can’t however handle thousands of players in the same area of space. Even if you had enough internet bandwidth to handle the data going back and forth and a super computer for the server there’s no PC, even with quad SLI that could render that many spaceships with Star Citizen’s fidelity.

So the “magic” of Star Citizen’s multiplayer design is how we combine a persistent universe with a more traditional (and easier to implement) temporary multiplayer “battle” instance.

The way it works is that the persistent universe server, which we’re calling the Galaxy Server, keeps track of all players’ assets, group relationships and locations inside the Star Citizen universe. As the Galaxy server isn’t handling any realtime action it can handle our complete player base, which right now would be about 45,000 players, but is designed to be able to scale to millions if need be. The other key thing the Galaxy Server does is dynamically place players based on their location, skill level, alignment and player versus player (PvP) preference into battle instances. Think of a “battle” instance like a Battlefield 3 multiplayer session or a World of Tanks Battle with the key difference that the selection of players is done transparently and is “in fiction”.

An illustration of how this would work is like this –

I start out planet side on New Pittsburg. I decide to buy a few tonnes of steel to fly to the shipyards of Terra. I’m currently in the hands of the galaxy server that communicates with my client and handles my purchases and interactions on the planet as these are not real time in the manner that the space action is. We render these in the manner of Freelancer, as detailed 3D environments where we see a third person view of our character in a location and we can click on Non Player Characters (NPCs) or terminals to buy / sell, upgrade your ship, get gossip, hear about a mission and so on.  You’ll also be able to interact with other players via a chat interface. We haven’t fully worked out the player avatar handling planet side but the bar or private clubs will be where you can meet / chat to other players. Besides populating the bar with NPCs, the game will also populate the bar with other players. If there are more players planet side than there are slots of avatars in the bar the ones visible to you will be based off your friends list and then it will be based on relevance to you – a player looking for a wingman, one from a similar group, or maybe someone that you’ve been given a mission to find or hunt down. You will also be able to see the full list of players in the room if there are more players than there are slots. Default would be a drop down list for this, but as I hate anything that breaks the immersion, we’ll probably come up with a better in fiction way of seeing the list of players – maybe you tell the bartender who you’re looking for, maybe you can look at the door list for the bar.

Having bought my cargo I launch into space. If there are players already in orbit there will be an orbit instance already created. If it’s not full then I will be placed into that. If it is full then a new one will be dynamically created. All orbit (and battle) instances reserve slots for friends and persons of interest (POI), which can be NPCs or other players, so if you’ve launched and there are multiple orbit instances and you have friends already in orbit you should be placed into that instance. This is also the dynamic that will be applied if you want to follow another player – you can “tag” them as a POI and then the game will do its best to place you in the same instance as your POI. For instance if you tagged someone planet side and they launch your PDA with its future version of Siri will notify you that your POI is leaving, giving you a window to launch into space too.

Once in orbit I can pull up my Navigation computer and set a course for my destination. If its several systems away like Terra, the nav computer will chart a course through the relevant jump points. You will be able to adjust this like on Google maps, so if you click a different jump point on the system map it will then re-route you on the shortest path to your destination with that jump point as the first “jump”

Once I’ve plotted my nav course I would then engage auto-pilot and head towards my first “way” point on the path to my destination (a jump point, an interim space feature, like an asteroid belt and so on). At this point I’ve been handed back to the Galaxy Server, which is determining whether I will encounter a hostile, someone that has tagged me as a POI, or a predetermined encounter on the way, or if I’m going to run across ongoing battle instance that is relevant to me (some members of the instance are aligned against or with me). These encounters could be with an NPC or a live player(s) and are sorted on skill level and also – which is important to all of you that like a more single player experience and don’t want to deal with griefers – based on your player versus player (PvP) preference. So if you’ve set your game settings to be low PvP and you’re in a relatively safe area, you’ll likely have an NPC (PvE) encounter as opposed to a PvP one. Of course your ranking and any reputation you earn won’t be the same with a PvE encounter versus a PvP. My hope for this dynamic is that it will allow people to first play Star Citizen in a safer more single player open world style, but as they grow in confidence and want to test their mettle against other real players they can take the training wheels off and get into battles with real players. There will also be areas of the universe that no matter what your PvP setting is, will be PvP. These will be systems that are on the fringes of the policed galaxy and will be notorious for pirate and other illegal activity. They will also be the most lucrative areas – if you can survive.

Now if you’re flying with your friends, who you can link to via the game POI “tagging” system, they will be with you when you’re pulled into a battle instance, whether it is against NPCs, real players or a combination of both.

Once the Galaxy Server has determined that you will have an encounter based on the above criteria it either dynamically creates a battle instance, or puts you in one if one already exists at the encounter point, and that instance has room for new players.  To exit this instance you either have to resolve the hostilities by defeating who’s targeting you, negotiating an exit or just outrunning them. Once in an instance you can put out a distress call to your friends. There are two ways people on your friends list (or squadron as we’re going to call it) can help. We save slots in all instances for friends to warp in to fight. To do this they need to be in the same system. If they are they can autopilot in to your rescue and will be dropped into the instance. If they’re not in the star system, if they can get to your system before the battle is over then they can join (but will only be able to join once they’ve reached your system). The second way for your friends to help out is by “dropping in” on your ship. This only works if it’s a multi person vehicle like the RSI Constellation. In this scenario they don’t need to be in your system, they just will drop in inside your ship and will be able to move around in first person, climbing into a turret to man it, or jumping in you P52 to fly it in combat while you fly the main ship (or they could fly your main ship and you pilot the fighter)

Once the hostilities or the event (sometimes you could be pulled into an instance because you came across a derelict ship or space station and we want to give the player a chance to explore) that triggered the drop out of auto-pilot has been resolved, you can hit auto-pilot again, get handed back to the Galaxy Server and go about your way on the nav course you’ve plotted.

You will always drop out at jump points and planets, where you will need to either make a jump to another system or land.

This process is continued until you reach your final destination, which in my example would be Terra, where I would use my comm system to negotiate a landing slot, which would take me down to the planet’s surface via an in-engine cinematic. Once planet side I’ll be able to sell my cargo, replenish my supplies and look for new opportunities via the third person planet side interface.

The advantage of this system is that is allows you to tailor your experience towards your preference – solo, co-op or full PvP. It also doesn’t partition you into different, parallel versions of the Star Citizen universe as everyone is kept on the persistent server. Because our battle or orbit / space instances are temporary, you’re never stuck

with one group over the long term and due to our heavy emphasis on friends and co-op, there will always be room for your friends to join you on your adventure; whether it’s against other players or NPCs.

The same instance system underpins the single player Squadron 42. If you’re playing off-line, your computer will be acting as the server and client, there will be no opportunities for friends to join and everyone will be an NPC. But if you play Squadron 42 through the Galaxy Server, even though your missions and space areas are pre-determined (you don’t get to pick where in the galaxy you are flying if you’re in the military) we will allow your friends to drop in / drop out to take over NPC wingmen and if you want extra skill ranking you can allow other players to drop in and take over enemy ace characters. This system is pretty similar to the Demon’s Souls setup where people could drop in as a Blue Phantom to help you kill a boss monster or fight off another invading player, or you could drop in as a Black Phantom to someone else’s world and try and kill them for XP and other gamerewards.

The key to all this is to allow player choice – you want to play alone you can, want your friends to join you in co-op we allow that and if you want to be challenged by other real players you can do that. The special part is that it can all happen in the same holistic universe.

I hope this helps in terms of understanding how we’re balancing the aspects of multiplayer as well as making the game fun.

Original post quoted by Bloodworth:
http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=22591.msg1132341#msg1132341




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 26, 2013, 07:57:39 AM
Man, I hope that was intentional.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 26, 2013, 11:14:41 AM
Next million dollar tier is "Idris-Q unlocked"

Then after that it's "Golden Gate Bridge unlocked"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 26, 2013, 11:34:42 AM
Lifestream is online now. (http://www.twitch.tv/roberts_space_ind_ch_1)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Hoax on November 26, 2013, 11:49:51 AM
Quote
Anvil Carrack – The Anvil Carrack has been the vanguard of every UEE exploration effort in recent years. Featuring reinforced fuel tanks for long-duration flight, a highly advanced jump drive array and a dedicated computer core room that allows it to put the maximum processing power into jump charting operations. Originally a military exclusive, the Carrack is now available for civilian use as a pathfinder spacecraft. Features on-board accommodations to allow for truly self-sufficient flight, including crew medical and repair facilities, and a mapping-oriented sensor suite capable of always charting a route home!

Nobody who isn't totally new at this should be able to read this with a straight face. There is zero chance any/most/all of that will matter if there is a game. Its like Marg or someone was saying, instead of starting with a game and making ships that work in that game they keep promising ships that imply that things like "finding a way home using your super nav computer" will have real gameplay effects. They won't.

Even if they had 5 years of solid breakneck development they couldn't ship something that finds non broken meaningful purposes just for this bullet list of features from their 33mil ship:
-Long duration flight. What does that mean? Will you run out of fuel on other ships? Why/how is that fun? For what benefits is that part of the game? Does this mean they have to make zones so big that some ships can't make it to points of interest without preparing in advance for the long flight?
-Better jump charting operations.  :oh_i_see:
-Pathfinding spacecraft. That's not a real role. There is zero chance at launch that there will be a reason for players to need to "pathfind" anything. Can you imagine the size and scope of the zones and the intentional info denial you would need to create such a role? Then someone "pathfinds" everything and puts it on a website and now what? Or is the star citizen universe limitless now?
-On board accomodations! I will be fucking floored if walking around your own ship is much more interactive or useful than it is in fucking Star Trek Online. I guess this counts as having extra nice player housing though?
-Self sufficient flight! This makes it sound like your ship has a kitchen and a bedroom which is great and totally needed in this game! But it won't be! Its a best RP/fluff wank!
-Crew medical bays! Not a thing! Everyone else needs to go visit a space station doctor acting catching mondolargian flu while visiting the rich vistas of... just nope. Not going to be a real gameplay aspect.
-Repair facilities! At best some kind of ship special passive or something? Maybe this will be real. I doubt it though. Remember these can't just be basic QoL perks because its implied other ships DONT HAVE THEM.
-Always chart a route home!

Now maybe this is all supposed to be fluff. Akin to how in Battletech TRO's they talked about which brand of PPC each mech had and what planet the metal was sourced from. But the thing is every battlemech or every eve spaceship is built to perform an actual role players have incentive to need/want to perform. Pathfinding in your self sufficient lassie-ship... Not so much.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 26, 2013, 12:05:13 PM
Quote
Anvil Carrack – The Anvil Carrack has been the vanguard of every UEE exploration effort in recent years. Featuring reinforced fuel tanks for long-duration flight, a highly advanced jump drive array and a dedicated computer core room that allows it to put the maximum processing power into jump charting operations. Originally a military exclusive, the Carrack is now available for civilian use as a pathfinder spacecraft. Features on-board accommodations to allow for truly self-sufficient flight, including crew medical and repair facilities, and a mapping-oriented sensor suite capable of always charting a route home!

Nobody who isn't totally new at this should be able to read this with a straight face. There is zero chance any/most/all of that will matter if there is a game. Its like Marg or someone was saying, instead of starting with a game and making ships that work in that game they keep promising ships that imply that things like "finding a way home using your super nav computer" will have real gameplay effects. They won't.

That obviously fluff text and not a gameplay promise. I am out of this part of the discussion though, this is getting silly.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 26, 2013, 12:27:27 PM
-Long duration flight.
-Better jump charting operations.
-Pathfinding spacecraft.
-On board accomodations!
-Self sufficient flight!
-Crew medical bays!
-Repair facilities!

-Ships have fuel. Not all are jump capable. Like most fighters.
- There are to be undisclosed sectors that you have to find, and navigate the jump, in turn you can sell the location and flight data ( Web site won't help, as you need the flight data to get though (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/12833-UEE-Queries-Jump-Points) ) Its a commodity for exploration game play. Also, they have said as they expand the galaxy, the jump locations will not be reviled, and if you are fist, you get to name it ( CS approval, of course )
- See above. Could be shortened jump navigation game, or something, not sure. See below
- Many of the ships have eating, sleeping ( This is a mechanic ) and toilet areas. They aim to create Believable ships that could support life in space, functional or not.
- You can be injured/Killed, as you are not just a ship. Planet side, space walking/EVA, and possibly as your ship takes damage. ( The have cited FTL )
- This could mean the ability to repair other ships ALA the Repair droids they have discussed, or some sort of crafting thing.

Quote
Fuel Usage and Range

  • Exploration will involve "expanded and/or efficient fuel consumption, including lighter hulls/armor." Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/513612/#Comment_513612)
  • Speed will affect fuel efficiency, so going slower will increase your range. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/526992/#Comment_526992)
  • Range will be a matter of fuel supply and engine efficiency. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/453208/#Comment_453208)
  • Fuel is only used if you use thrusters. Turning off the IFCS and engines will allow you to coast. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/618968/#Comment_618968)
    • Using Jump Points will not consume fuel. Source: WH36, approx 14 minutes in.Thanks to @23_TSF for the citation.
Quote
What will Explorer's be able to find?
  • About 70% of each star system will be unexplored. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/650477/#Comment_650477)
  • Alien Wrecks. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/650477/#Comment_650477)
  • Asteroid fields with resource deposits. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/650477/#Comment_650477)
  • Lots of interesting space features. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/581999/#Comment_581999) Another (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/581750/#Comment_581750)
  • Possibly "Treasure Island" style treasure hunts triggered by found artifacts. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/134067/#Comment_134067)
  • Derelicts
  • Some derelicts can be explored on foot. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/484918/#Comment_484918)
  • Repairable Bengal Carriers
  • Asteroid Bases
  • Old areas will have some system for keeping them explorable. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/513719/#Comment_513719)
  • Rare, unexpected and possibly unique encounters that are not persistent, perhaps found by following faint hints and trails. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/607296/#Comment_607296)

Quote
  • The Salvage mechanic will likely be a primary source of income for many explorers. Source (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13305-Letter-From-The-Chairman-21-Million)
    Salvage Mechanic: Salvage isn’t an aside: it’s a career, with its own mechanic, story tie-ins and universe-shaping endgames. Search the galaxy for a host of valuable and interesting secrets using both the flight and FPS components. Discover the secrets of the ancient Hadesians, locate valuable components and cargo… or go down in history the first to make contact an entirely new alien race!
    • Discovering a jump point to an unknown system will be highly valuable, as well as granting you naming rights.
    • Presumably discovering unknown jump points to known systems will have monetary rewards.
    • We can record resource locations and sell that information. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/513719/#Comment_513719)
    • Selling resource locations to an NPC store gives royalties on the sale of that info. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/650477/#Comment_650477)
    • Resource deposits can be over-mined and exhausted. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/571618/#Comment_571618)
    • Presumably the treasure hunts mentioned above will have some cash value.
    • Identifying and following ships with bounties, and selling their locations. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/311667/#Comment_311667)
    • Scout Escorts: Rob Irving has said it may be possible to share autopilot data for formation flying. This may allow "slaving" a customer's autopilot to your nav data and guiding them through hazards. I've asked directly if that's the plan and will update if/when he answers. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/166951/#Comment_166951)
    • We will be able to take missions from the OES (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/13123-Writers-Guide-Part-Thirteen). As an intel office, that may mean scouting missions. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/458365/#Comment_458365)
Quote
[ul]
  • Explorers can manually fly through regions others "fast travel" over.
  • Autopilot (Fast Travel) is [ u]not[ /u] required in-system. Jump points are required between systems.  Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/458438/#Comment_458438)
  • Mention of explorers specifically avoiding the fast travel mechanic. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/571590/#Comment_571590)
  • Waypoints can be used to create a search pattern. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/526992/#Comment_526992)
  • An amazing interactive map by @Zuur  Link (http://http://starcitizen.mojoworld.com/StarMap/)
  • There will be space hazards. No word on if they will require advanced sensors to detect or specialized protection to survive. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/268198/#Comment_268198)
  • No space monsters. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/581750/#Comment_581750)
  • We can keep souvenirs of our travels.  Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/496283/#Comment_496283)
  • There will be a coordinate system and landmarks. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/581739/#Comment_581739)
[/ul]

RE: Sensors

Quote
So, we just started implementation of the signature and radar system in the engine a week or two ago. At its most basic level it works something like this: A target emits a signature, that signature is modified by environmental effects and any boosting effects such as an extra sensitive radar unit, or an active ping etc. If that signal is over the threshold of a listening device then it is a certain target, if it is under the threshold but under the maximum range of the listening device then it is an uncertain target. The level of uncertainty scales with the difference between the threshold and the the signal.

The primary method of sensor control will be whether you are using active or passive listening, and setting your focus width. Narrow bands are more sensitive and can detect targets with greater certainty, but their use comes at the cost of creating large radar blind spots. It will be up to you to select the radar mode you want to use in any given scenario. (a tip of the hat to a commenter in this thread who suggested this functionality, proof that we do incorporate your suggestions into our designs!)

Positional sensor data will primarily take the form of the radar display which is based on and evolved from the Wing Commander style display. Informational sensor data display relies heavily on the HUD/cockpit UI design which is just in its initial research phase.
Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/1024812/#Comment_1024812)[/list][/list]

EDIT: Formatting and link fixes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on November 26, 2013, 01:18:52 PM
Well, I think Hoax is saying that none of this list will make it into the game, which will make the ship description fluff, and you're quoting all these lists as proof of implementation.  So I guess it's saved for posterity and we can come back to this post when the game is released and figure out who's right and wrong.   Edit your posts and put your wagers in, if you wish to make the whole thing "interesting."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 26, 2013, 01:34:42 PM
-Long duration flight.
-Better jump charting operations.
-Pathfinding spacecraft.
-On board accomodations!
-Self sufficient flight!
-Crew medical bays!
-Repair facilities!

-Ships have fuel. Not all are jump capable. Like most fighters.
- There are to be undisclosed sectors that you have to find, and navigate the jump, in turn you can sell the location and flight data ( Web site won't help, as you need the flight data to get though (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/12833-UEE-Queries-Jump-Points) ) Its a commodity for exploration game play. Also, they have said as they expand the galaxy, the jump locations will not be reviled, and if you are fist, you get to name it ( CS approval, of course )
- See above. Could be shortened jump navigation game, or something, not sure. See below
- Many of the ships have eating, sleeping ( This is a mechanic ) and toilet areas. They aim to create Believable ships that could support life in space, functional or not.
- You can be injured/Killed, as you are not just a ship. Planet side, space walking/EVA, and possibly as your ship takes damage. ( The have cited FTL )
- This could mean the ability to repair other ships ALA the Repair droids they have discussed, or some sort of crafting thing.

Quote
Fuel Usage and Range

  • Exploration will involve "expanded and/or efficient fuel consumption, including lighter hulls/armor." Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/513612/#Comment_513612)
  • Speed will affect fuel efficiency, so going slower will increase your range. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/526992/#Comment_526992)
  • Range will be a matter of fuel supply and engine efficiency. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/453208/#Comment_453208)
  • Fuel is only used if you use thrusters. Turning off the IFCS and engines will allow you to coast. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/618968/#Comment_618968)
    • Using Jump Points will not consume fuel. Source: WH36, approx 14 minutes in.Thanks to @23_TSF for the citation.
Quote
What will Explorer's be able to find?
  • About 70% of each star system will be unexplored. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/650477/#Comment_650477)
  • Alien Wrecks. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/650477/#Comment_650477)
  • Asteroid fields with resource deposits. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/650477/#Comment_650477)
  • Lots of interesting space features. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/581999/#Comment_581999) Another (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/581750/#Comment_581750)
  • Possibly "Treasure Island" style treasure hunts triggered by found artifacts. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/134067/#Comment_134067)
  • Derelicts
  • Some derelicts can be explored on foot. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/484918/#Comment_484918)
  • Repairable Bengal Carriers
  • Asteroid Bases
  • Old areas will have some system for keeping them explorable. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/513719/#Comment_513719)
  • Rare, unexpected and possibly unique encounters that are not persistent, perhaps found by following faint hints and trails. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/607296/#Comment_607296)

Quote
  • The Salvage mechanic will likely be a primary source of income for many explorers. Source (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13305-Letter-From-The-Chairman-21-Million)
    Salvage Mechanic: Salvage isn’t an aside: it’s a career, with its own mechanic, story tie-ins and universe-shaping endgames. Search the galaxy for a host of valuable and interesting secrets using both the flight and FPS components. Discover the secrets of the ancient Hadesians, locate valuable components and cargo… or go down in history the first to make contact an entirely new alien race!
    • Discovering a jump point to an unknown system will be highly valuable, as well as granting you naming rights.
    • Presumably discovering unknown jump points to known systems will have monetary rewards.
    • We can record resource locations and sell that information. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/513719/#Comment_513719)
    • Selling resource locations to an NPC store gives royalties on the sale of that info. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/650477/#Comment_650477)
    • Resource deposits can be over-mined and exhausted. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/571618/#Comment_571618)
    • Presumably the treasure hunts mentioned above will have some cash value.
    • Identifying and following ships with bounties, and selling their locations. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/311667/#Comment_311667)
    • Scout Escorts: Rob Irving has said it may be possible to share autopilot data for formation flying. This may allow "slaving" a customer's autopilot to your nav data and guiding them through hazards. I've asked directly if that's the plan and will update if/when he answers. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/166951/#Comment_166951)
    • We will be able to take missions from the OES (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/13123-Writers-Guide-Part-Thirteen). As an intel office, that may mean scouting missions. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/458365/#Comment_458365)
Quote
[ul]
  • Explorers can manually fly through regions others "fast travel" over.
  • Autopilot (Fast Travel) is [ u]not[ /u] required in-system. Jump points are required between systems.  Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/458438/#Comment_458438)
  • Mention of explorers specifically avoiding the fast travel mechanic. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/571590/#Comment_571590)
  • Waypoints can be used to create a search pattern. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/526992/#Comment_526992)
  • An amazing interactive map by @Zuur  Link (http://http://starcitizen.mojoworld.com/StarMap/)
  • There will be space hazards. No word on if they will require advanced sensors to detect or specialized protection to survive. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/268198/#Comment_268198)
  • No space monsters. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/581750/#Comment_581750)
  • We can keep souvenirs of our travels.  Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/496283/#Comment_496283)
  • There will be a coordinate system and landmarks. Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/581739/#Comment_581739)
[/ul]

RE: Sensors

Quote
So, we just started implementation of the signature and radar system in the engine a week or two ago. At its most basic level it works something like this: A target emits a signature, that signature is modified by environmental effects and any boosting effects such as an extra sensitive radar unit, or an active ping etc. If that signal is over the threshold of a listening device then it is a certain target, if it is under the threshold but under the maximum range of the listening device then it is an uncertain target. The level of uncertainty scales with the difference between the threshold and the the signal.

The primary method of sensor control will be whether you are using active or passive listening, and setting your focus width. Narrow bands are more sensitive and can detect targets with greater certainty, but their use comes at the cost of creating large radar blind spots. It will be up to you to select the radar mode you want to use in any given scenario. (a tip of the hat to a commenter in this thread who suggested this functionality, proof that we do incorporate your suggestions into our designs!)

Positional sensor data will primarily take the form of the radar display which is based on and evolved from the Wing Commander style display. Informational sensor data display relies heavily on the HUD/cockpit UI design which is just in its initial research phase.
Source (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/1024812/#Comment_1024812)[/list][/list]

EDIT: Formatting and link fixes.


My bet? 70% of this gets junked or doesn't work as described.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 26, 2013, 01:45:36 PM
I'm just posting the disclosed info, some of it is implemented according to the sources and developer postings. Much of this is not for Squadron 42, but the Persistent universe. Also, they have said many times, there will not be a traditional release/launch of the game. Its all in modules and stages, all pieced out to backers as its ready. Non-backers won't be able to buy the game until after the PU beta ( Retail price ). They also said, not everything they are discussing will be in a launch. This is a very different type of development plan. There will not be one giant "The game is done. launch." release like other games. I find it hard myself to try to pigeonhole this games development in the same vein of other titles. It simply will not be.

As far as "not proof of implementation", no shit, games not even in alpha yet. The single player alpha isn't anticipated till August 2014.

If you treat this project as a traditional "Data dump launch", you will be disappointed.

Quote
I’d like to take a moment to discuss exactly what you’re getting. First and foremost, the Hangar Module you will load next week is by no means a finished product. It is the earliest build of anything I have ever shared with the public. In fact, it’s at an even earlier stage than I would feel comfortable giving to any publisher I’ve worked with in the past and long before I would be sharing builds with QA in a traditional game development schedule! But Star Citizen is all about trying new approaches in game development.

The Hangar Module was not something we promised during the initial crowdfunding campaign. We had originally promised to share how the game was made with regular updates on our website and give early backers access the full game’s Alpha and Beta builds. But once we started development we came upon the idea of taking the constant public iteration that you get with a “live” online game and applying it during the game’s development to allow us to engage and involve the Star Citizen community of backers in the process of the making of the game. The Hangar Module seemed like a natural choice for our first public facing deliverable. While it may not be as glamorous as the Dogfighting Module which we aim to deliver by the end of this year, it requires a whole bunch of content and functionality that the final game will use, from the ships and their data structures, to communicating with your account to installing and patching the client. The Hangar Module will be the base foundation that everything is added as we release additional modules, eventually cumulating in the full persistent world alpha / beta.

Revision 1 of the Hangar will be very simple. You will be able to walk around, enter the initial pledge ships and explore a ground level in CryEngine that shows the kind of detail we are putting into the full game. It is intended as a very basic example of our direction that we are putting out to reward our backers, something to give you a chance to view “your” ship for the first time. Be warned, we have only just begun the QA process. This is the first stable build, not a slick “open beta” or anything designed as a promotional tool. We’re letting you in on the ground floor because we want to open up the process. Expect to encounter crashes, rendering bugs and other issues. Your feedback will help improve Star Citizen.

We need your help to test the hangar, just like you will be testing the game itself. After release, we will open a special forum for reporting and tracking hangar bugs. Your reports will go directly to the team, who will act on the bugs. Please don’t report them to the support e-mail, as our CS staff won’t be able to walk through hangar issues just yet!

In the coming months, we plan to release additional “major” Revisions of the Hangar, where we add more functionality and content. Things like detailed customization of your personal hangar, persistence of the state of all your items (what is equipped and where), in client item purchasing and the ability to invite your friends to your hangar will be part of later revisions of the Hangar Module.

Just because we’ve launched a module to the community doesn’t mean that it’s completely done. It just means its ready for the community’s feedback and stress testing! Our plan is to update each module (Hangar, Dogfighting, Planet, Ship-boarding) multiple times as new features and content are completed before the full integration into the persistent universe.


Also, when some of you post, you ascribe some level of arrogance that has never been shown by this group of developers. Perhaps you should not. They are quite humble, and have been during this entire process to date. They know its ambitious. And they are extreamly transparent, daily, weekly, constantly. This includes discussing ideas that may never happen. Also, for the record and for what its worth, there is zero NDA.

Quote
GREETINGS Dunnlang - "SC really has the opportunity to feel like a living breathing world" - AGREED! All we have to do is not suck. All fine ideas by the way ... full of realism and supporting immersion ... great stuff.
Ted


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on November 26, 2013, 02:29:04 PM
Any sign of actual gameplay yet?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 26, 2013, 02:41:12 PM
Also, when some of you post, you ascribe some level of arrogance that has never been shown by this group of developers. Perhaps you should not. They are quite humble, and have been during this entire process to date. They know its ambitious. And they are extreamly transparent, daily, weekly, constantly. This includes discussing ideas that may never happen. Also, for the record and for what its worth, there is zero NDA.

Nope, extremely transparent is posting their financials. That's all I would want to see if I'm giving $250 for a digital asset. Because if I'm an "investor" or a "donor" those are my rights.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 26, 2013, 02:41:29 PM
i can't fault the developers at all. This is all insane, but I still think they're responding appropriately to the stimulus of people paying out thousands of dollars for ships.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: lamaros on November 26, 2013, 04:24:57 PM
This project [...], you will be disappointed.

I'm glad we can agree on something.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Merusk on November 26, 2013, 04:30:42 PM
Any sign of actual gameplay yet?

I can understand how you missed it in the wall of text, so I cut it out for you:

As far as "not proof of implementation", no shit, games not even in alpha yet. The single player alpha isn't anticipated till August 2014.

I laugh at peoples ignorance and blind fandom and, once again, am jealous I didn't think of it first.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on November 26, 2013, 05:31:18 PM
I tried thumbing through the livestream.

Was it just a static cam of people sitting around a table for four hours?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on November 27, 2013, 12:31:24 AM
You expect them to get drunk and start stripping each other?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on November 27, 2013, 12:42:18 AM
I tried thumbing through the livestream.

Was it just a static cam of people sitting around a table for four hours?

I did the same thing and I could barely keep my drink down as I kept wading through the archived stream only to see more talking faces, for hours.

But believe it or not, there IS something new and kind of real to watch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qEMI6EBVt0). Weapons!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 27, 2013, 03:14:25 AM
A user on Reddit did a great job in writing down everything that has been said throughout the livestream (especially the Q&A portions scattered here and there):

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1rigza/star_citizen_stream_live_now/cdnkwhc

Lots of subjects covered.
---

- They announced that the Hangar module will get two more iterations within Christmas: one is a graphical/performance pass, the other is the addition of a "firing range" where we'll be able to test out the ships' weapons while we wait for the DFM (dogfighting module)

- Speaking of the DFM, Roberts confirmed that they won't use the native Cryengine infrastructure for the network play, but want to build their own so that they can start testing that from the beginning, but it will take more time, so we'll get the multiplayer version of the DFM probably around mid-february at the earliest (my estimate)

Regarding the player vs. AI version of the DFM, it's a bit unclear: I'm not sure they will release it within the end of the year as expected, but probably within mid-january.
---------

The "Avenger" ship (the military version of it will be your beginning ship in the Squadron 42 single-player campaign) has received a design pass, but, more importantly, Physically Based Rendering, or "PBR":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVaR1wHRWX0

An early look at the HUD, from the guy who worked on Ironman 3, John Likens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8vVP4Fbof4 (great video!)

Obviously it needs some adjustments, there is too much stuff going on (although you can also minimize it, but it needs to be smaller). Each ship manufacturer will have its own HUD, althought different ships from the same manufacturer will have similar displays

Orchestral recording session, with audio director Martin Galway and composer Pedro Camacho:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrZpSPup9l4
---

The scam is slowly coming together, you bitches  :grin: . Still a scam, but at least it's good looking (yeah, well, wouldn't be much of a scam, otherwise) :P


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on November 27, 2013, 06:26:44 AM
I bought my alpha and beta and release versions for 40 bucks and refuse to spend a dollar more, because I am not a raving lunatic. However, I am having a hard time hating on Roberts for what he is doing. Being the owner or president of a company resonates with me. He is responsible for feeding his team and making sure they stay employed for as long as possible. If I were him and a bunch of suckers (no offense please, it's the truth) wanted to keep throwing money at me, practically guaranteeing the financial stability of my company for many years, I would milk that shit for every penny I could. Then I would go to every company picnic and meeting with a smile on my face knowing that I was doing right by my employees.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on November 27, 2013, 06:34:36 AM
I bought my alpha and beta and release versions for 40 bucks and refuse to spend a dollar more, because I am not a raving lunatic. However, I am having a hard time hating on Roberts for what he is doing. Being the owner or president of a company resonates with me. He is responsible for feeding his team and making sure they stay employed for as long as possible. If I were him and a bunch of suckers (no offense please, it's the truth) wanted to keep throwing money at me, practically guaranteeing the financial stability of my company for many years, I would milk that shit for every penny I could. Then I would go to every company picnic and meeting with a smile on my face knowing that I was doing right by my employees.

Remind me to never buy anything you're selling.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Merusk on November 27, 2013, 07:23:17 AM
I bought my alpha and beta and release versions for 40 bucks and refuse to spend a dollar more, because I am not a raving lunatic. However, I am having a hard time hating on Roberts for what he is doing. Being the owner or president of a company resonates with me. He is responsible for feeding his team and making sure they stay employed for as long as possible. If I were him and a bunch of suckers (no offense please, it's the truth) wanted to keep throwing money at me, practically guaranteeing the financial stability of my company for many years, I would milk that shit for every penny I could. Then I would go to every company picnic and meeting with a smile on my face knowing that I was doing right by my employees.

Oh, absolutely.  That's the beauty of it.  They haven't had to take on any debit because they have a funding base of suckers willing to give them money for nothing.  No piece of the company, no interest, no say in deadlines or proof of work, no method of refund and not even a gameplay advantage because they've stated these ships will be available in the game for game currency.

I'm not being sarcastic when I say I'm jealous I didn't think of it first.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Shaje on November 27, 2013, 07:52:56 AM
You charge what the market will bear.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 27, 2013, 08:57:12 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/XZnAUeB.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Gets on November 27, 2013, 09:21:33 AM
Quick, someone throw another $2 million in the bonfire.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 27, 2013, 09:38:37 AM
I just want to say that Crysis wasn't very good and Crysis where you play a spaceship sounds fucking awful.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 27, 2013, 10:11:24 AM
Any sign of actual gameplay yet?

There was in 2012.

Nope, extremely transparent is posting their financials. That's all I would want to see if I'm giving $250 for a digital asset. Because if I'm an "investor" or a "donor" those are my rights.

That's your personal stipulation for donating. Not everyone's. I am speaking on how they are chronicling, interacting with backers and openly discussing and showing the development. Hell, all backers have a program on their machine right now that's likely the earliest build of any game to be given to the public for any game.

I laugh at peoples ignorance and blind fandom and, once again, am jealous I didn't think of it first.

I'm still in Wait and see as far as if this turns out any good. Past track record, whose on staff and the constant updates to backers makes me believe its on course to be good. That's not what I would define as "blind". It also does not mean I ignore information on the project to make a uninformed rant. I also do not define design intentions that do not come true as "lies" either. *Shrug* Some do.

Be as skeptical as you guys want. Just don't expect those who are paying attention to feel the same way as deeply as you. The transparency of this development speaks a great deal to many people as far as projected quality. I Believe this is the key factor to the fundraising success.

The assumption that there is zero reasons for this much money to be donated to this project, is false. It didn't happen for no reason. I'm referring to the "suckers" comments.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 27, 2013, 10:39:29 AM
I just want to say that Crysis wasn't very good and Crysis where you play a spaceship sounds fucking awful.

You Can't be serious?

CryEngine 3 is a platform, Crysis was a game. An extremely well received game at that. Not that the game Crysis has much to do with star citizen. But the CryEngine has powered some extreamly popular titles.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 27, 2013, 10:52:17 AM
Ok.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samwise on November 27, 2013, 11:55:39 AM
Any sign of actual gameplay yet?

There was in 2012.

Does this refer to the hangar module?  Because if so boy do I have a game to sell you.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Draegan on November 27, 2013, 12:29:08 PM
All the people ganging up on MB is crazy. Then again you pack of fiends is how I feel about the dopes that keep buying shitty WOW expansions.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Rasix on November 27, 2013, 12:30:45 PM
OK. Thanks.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Draegan on November 27, 2013, 01:08:59 PM
Your welcome. You may continue knashing your teeth.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 27, 2013, 02:03:09 PM
Some info about Squadron 42, extrapolated by the Reddit link I posted in my previous message:

Quote

Q: How long is SQ42 game going to be?


A: Not just a tutorial. Mentioned 50 hours. Campaign will be "as big as any Wing Commander, even the biggest, or even a little bigger". 50-70 missions, and aren't all simple - they're multi-stage. Would be a "$200m big-ass Hollywood film". Lots of narrative, cool personalities, big set-pieces.
You learn organically "in the action" - not in a boring tutorial way.

Q: Will there be FPS in SQ42?
A: Yes, definitely boarding, probably on the ground as well. Not just flying.

Q: Will you be able to keep a ship at the end of SQ42?

A: Not particularly. End of SQ42 is mustering out - e.g. you don't get an F-16 if you leave the air force. You only take your friendships, reputation, and citizenship.

Q: Will there be a retirement benefit (e.g. more money) for getting higher rank in SQ42?

A: You can leave at various parts of the campaign, though you can't leave anywhere. Everyone will be at basically the same "level" when you finish. Finishing SQ42 might give you a few extra credits - haven't decided this yet - but it would be the same for everyone.

Q: Can you opt out of citizenship if you want to be a pirate?
A: Yes. Not an issue. Just go start pirating.

Q: How will dialog work?
A: Not a wheel system like Mass Effect. Based on first-person interaction - e.g. "catching someone's eye" to engage them. Previous actions and demeanor, whether you're looking them in the eye, etc. will affect how you interact with them. Maybe might hear your own internal thoughts like in Wing Commander 3/4. Mostly binary choices interspersed with eye contact/body language that affects how you interact with them. Won't be able to go back and redo conversations to try different options like in Mass Effect. "If you annoy someone, they will walk away from you". You have to make choices and can't go back.

Q: Will all game mechanics be introduced in SQ42 - e.g. salvage, etc.?
A: Yes - goal is to teach you how systems work, how to repair, etc. in an organic way in the story.

Q: Will there be difficulty levels in SQ42?
A: Not sure yet. Would be fairly simple to have easy/medium/hard. May do this - haven't made a choice yet. Don't want to make it too easy though.

Q: Character customization in SQ42?
A: You can create your character. Have a cool way to do this in-fiction. Not revealing too much yet.

Q: When will we see female character?
A: Actively working on this. Have 3D model, but shifting to do facial and full-body scanning now.
Current model is a "3/10" on quality vs. upcoming technology, so want to wait to show this until it's
done.

Q: Will there be friendly fire in SQ42?
A: Probably yes.

Q: Will there be a medal/ranking system?
[bA: Yes, definitely. There will be medals/awards. Model is similar to Wing Commander.

Q: Number of flyable ships in SQ42?
A: "At least six in some capacity or another". Fighter, bomber, transport, special ops, cap ship.
Possibly more.

Q: Will all SQ42 dialog be voiced?
A: Yes. And mostly mo-cap. "[Ryse] level or better".

Q: What inspires you for SQ42 story?
A: Gladiator, WWII movies. Lots of Roman influence - Gladiator, 9th Legion. Apocalypse Now.
Generation Kill.
For the SC PU: Firefly. Cowboy Bebop.
"Start really big, go from there"

Q: Will there be humor in SQ42?
A: Yes. Even serious movies work best with some.

Q: Will all voices be British?
A: No. There will be a mix. It will be cast like a big movie. Potentially some British, American,
etc. Like in Wing Commander - more multicultural than the present.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: DraconianOne on November 27, 2013, 03:16:32 PM
Any sign of actual gameplay yet?

There was in 2012.

Does this refer to the hangar module?  Because if so boy do I have a game to sell you.   :awesome_for_real:

You can have this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0gZES2pTWk#t=166) which was, apparently, rendered with the in-game engine. Not that's going to look anything like that on your machine obviously but look! Shiny!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samwise on November 27, 2013, 04:08:42 PM
Any sign of actual gameplay yet?

There was in 2012.

Does this refer to the hangar module?  Because if so boy do I have a game to sell you.   :awesome_for_real:

You can have this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0gZES2pTWk#t=166) which was, apparently, rendered with the in-game engine. Not that's going to look anything like that on your machine obviously but look! Shiny!

A trailer rendered with the game engine is even worse of an answer to "is there gameplay?" than the hangar thing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: DraconianOne on November 28, 2013, 02:08:07 AM
A trailer rendered with the game engine is even worse of an answer to "is there gameplay?" than the hangar thing.

Can't argue with that. For a game whose first pre-kickstarter trailer proudly heralded SC as the return of the space-sim, there's been an awful lot of (admittedly very pretty) footage the inside of the ships with well animated characters getting in and out of a bunk - but not so much of the actual flying through space shooting things part. But hey, at least you can land on Coruscant right?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on November 28, 2013, 05:33:52 PM
Oh shit.  Okay, well, you can make fun of this. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13408-Giving-Thanks)  Let it never be said that I wasn't generous in hate opportunities.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 28, 2013, 08:04:16 PM
(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/w251yisbamkylr/source/SC_FEMALE_EXPLORER_BACK_WIP_V3_131019_RM.jpg)

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/qtvdrlqysdi7hr/source/SC_FEMALE_EXPLORER_FRONT_WIP_V3_131019_RM.jpg)

Strong "chainmail-bikini-armor fashion school" influence here. Also the one-leg-in-front-of-the-other pose. Isn't it possible to stand normal, once? *twitch*

If I go into serious business space combat I want to look menacing, not radiate an aura o f "Oh hi Mr. space pirate, come and sweep me of my feet!"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Merusk on November 28, 2013, 08:17:15 PM
I didn't get the 'chainmail bikini' vibe taking a look. A bodyglove/ wetsuit makes some sense for a pressure/ environment suit of the future.  After all, she's not a space marine, she's a pilot, right?  So it's going to be snug on men and women (make fun of guys for having no package.)  It's not blatantly sexy and has a utilitarian look to it. Nothing's exposed, no 'boob window' or gratuitous g-string design.

It goes all off the rails at the breasts, though.  To do that there'd need to be  some sort of ribbing/ wire holding them out from the body for anything to conform like that. At that point I agree, it's silly.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on November 28, 2013, 08:37:45 PM
It goes all off the rails at the breasts, though.  To do that there'd need to be  some sort of ribbing/ wire holding them out from the body for anything to conform like that. At that point I agree, it's silly.

That's what I was refering too.  :-)

At the back view there is (combined with the pose) the padding to create 'focus on my bum!' effect. No, it's not that blatant, but if you'd put a female character in the male suit id be completely gone. So it's very much deliberate.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 28, 2013, 10:00:08 PM
Oh shit.  Okay, well, you can make fun of this. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13408-Giving-Thanks)  Let it never be said that I wasn't generous in hate opportunities.

Quote
But this extra visibility has also brought the inevitable doubters or people that just hate to see something out of the ordinary succeed. “It’s a scam!” “It can’t live up the hype!” “I’ll laugh when it fails and everyone is disappointed!”

With the headlines will come inevitable haters. They can’t comprehend why a game like Star Citizen could capture the imagination, why so many people would enthusiastically support something long before it’s a sure thing. Sometimes I wonder this myself.

But when I think about it, one answer comes to me.

We’re all following a dream with Star Citizen.

Yes, yes we can.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on November 29, 2013, 01:22:57 AM
confirmed: Chris Roberts reads F13  :why_so_serious: But no, for reasons beyond my intellectual grasp, there are other places that still don't adhere to the CoR (Church of Roberts); oh well, just a matter of time.
---

Ahem, anyway: regarding the explorer WIP, yeah,  The breast area suffers from the "chainmail bikini" syndrome. I remember that something similar happened during the Project Eternity KS campaign: they first showed this...


...which became this, after some discussions on the forums:


So far, here and there we've seen concept art of Marines, bounty hunters, explorers, privateers; SC will feature a classless system, but maybe, given our reputation, missions achieved, NPC factionsetc., we'll obtain a certain "title", I don't know.

The message posted above by Miasma shows a (concept art) landing zone, called "Platinum Bay":

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/l2sln2wtujly6r/post_section_header/PlatinumBay_LandingZone_final.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ginaz on November 29, 2013, 09:57:48 AM
confirmed: Chris Roberts reads F13  :why_so_serious: But no, for reasons beyond my intellectual grasp, there are other places that still don't adhere to the CoR (Church of Roberts); oh well, just a matter of time.
---

Ahem, anyway: regarding the explorer WIP, yeah,  The breast area suffers from the "chainmail bikini" syndrome. I remember that something similar happened during the Project Eternity KS campaign: they first showed this...


...which became this, after some discussions on the forums:


So far, here and there we've seen concept art of Marines, bounty hunters, explorers, privateers; SC will feature a classless system, but maybe, given our reputation, missions achieved, NPC factionsetc., we'll obtain a certain "title", I don't know.

The message posted above by Miasma shows a (concept art) landing zone, called "Platinum Bay":

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/l2sln2wtujly6r/post_section_header/PlatinumBay_LandingZone_final.jpg)


You know, this game would get shit on a lot less if they had more than just concept art to show for the $30+ million they've received.  That being said, some people need to calm their tits wrt their criticism.  It's way more annoying than reading about some new ship in the cash shop or the next stretch goal posted by fanboys.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on November 29, 2013, 03:43:03 PM
Quote
You know, this game would get shit on a lot less if they had more than just concept art to show for the $30+ million they've received.

Well, the fact that they had the hangar module out as early as they did and allowed people to noodle around inside and around the present models of their ships wasn't too bad at all.

Oh! And it's about that time, again, I guess. Discussions about armored boobs, in armor. Dunnit matter that in any real world parallel, there's fuck all for boobs (http://cdn1.bostonmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/new-body-armor-women-military.jpg) in combat armor for women; you have to balance out the opportunity for men and women alike okay mostly men get to have 'curves' on their space avatars. Or just dress lewdly.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on November 29, 2013, 05:54:06 PM
Oh yes, the ol' subtle white knighting of women not showing curves and cleavage in armor because in real life they wouldn't.

Yea, that discussion is stupid.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on November 29, 2013, 06:12:50 PM
I might orgasm when this game goes live and black out from the overwhelming sense of schadenfreude.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sophismata on November 30, 2013, 06:45:51 PM
Actually, what irks me with those WIP pics is that the male armour has giant "fuck-off" plates covering his vitals, whereas the female armour has these little padded contours, presumably so that it can look sexy instead of functional.

The "we're all just following the dream" thing is kind of scary, since that's the kind of factless drivel Amway use.


I do hope the game releases and is awesome, though - should it do so, I'll be there with my money.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on November 30, 2013, 07:09:13 PM
I might orgasm when this game goes live and black out from the overwhelming sense of schadenfreude.

When you wake up, Radicalthon.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Dark_MadMax on December 01, 2013, 09:12:11 PM

Can't argue with that. For a game whose first pre-kickstarter trailer proudly heralded SC as the return of the space-sim, there's been an awful lot of (admittedly very pretty) footage the inside of the ships with well animated characters getting in and out of a bunk - but not so much of the actual flying through space shooting things part. But hey, at least you can land on Coruscant right?

There was somewhere. though I was not particularly impressed - maybe too old for space sims now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on December 01, 2013, 09:16:46 PM
I might orgasm when this game goes live and black out from the overwhelming sense of schadenfreude.

When you wake up, Radicalthon.

That's the 47M stretch goal.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on December 02, 2013, 05:08:48 AM
The latest "Jumpoint Magazine" is available for subscribers (and, of course, non-subscribers via "alternative" methods :P). What follows will be probably posted soon enough as an official post on the website, but anyways, here's their current idea of a piracy career in Star Citizen:
------------------------

Quote
JP: What makes a player character a pirate, and how visible is it? Will I have a little “Pirate” label hovering over my cockpit as I fly around?

RR: Piracy is a choice, rather than a player “class.” You don’t have to look a certain way, and we’re not going to stick little pirate flags on all of the pirate characters in the game. Scanning and recognizing a pirate is more about seeing a list of crimes committed than having to join a specific pirate club.

JP: How can I get rid of the tag (and any bounties on my character) ?

RR: Stop committing crimes and become a productive member of society. (By this, I mean doing things that the UEE likes/needs.) And pay off any outstanding bounties.

JP: What’s the benefit to piracy?

RR: The most obvious benefit is that you can take what you need without having to buy it! It’s also a good lifestyle to choose if you’re not too keen on being a part of the UEE.

JP: Does that mean piracy will be a viable career, or is it something limiting?

RR: There are obviously risks to being a pirate, particularly a well-known one. But it is absolutely a viable career. You’ll just need to choose your shopping locations carefully.

JP: Will a relatively unknown pirate be in more danger from player characters or from the NPC law-enforcement organizations? How about a pirate with high recognition?

RR: I wouldn’t think of it as NPC or PC, since that can vary based on your preferences. You’ll always be in danger from both. If you don’t have a significantly bad reputation or lengthy list of crimes, you probably won’t get much trouble from the Advocacy directly (but we may have player missions from the Advocacy, as well). Well-known pirates with very bad reputations and extensive rap sheets are a different story, as the Advocacy and Bounty Hunters’ Guild will actively seek them out.

JP: What sources do you draw from for creating Star Citizen’s pirate experience?

RR: There have been a number of great pirate games over the years, and we draw inspiration from many of them. Of course, previous Wing Commander and Star/Freelancer provides significant influence as to how these groups operate. Some other favorites are Sid Meier’s Pirates! and the Merchants and Marauders board game, but inspiration comes from other game types, as well.

JP: Will pirates have access to anything unique? Will they be denied anything?

RR: It’s more based on your reputation than your career choice, but those who have a good reputation with certain pirate groups might have access to some special equipment that the do-gooders can’t have. On the other hand, they will have a much harder time getting their hands on military spec equipment, however, and there will be trouble if the Advocacy catches you with illegal hardware!

JP: Are all pirates equal, or is there a more detailed reputation system?

RR: The reputation system is quite detailed, and does distinguish between different groups. It doesn’t just impact your relationship with pirate groups, however. And some pirate packs might even be sworn enemies of other packs, so a positive rep with one pirate group might mean a negative rep with another group.

JP: How will pirate organizations work? Is there honor among thieves, or is it every man for themselves?

RR: That can vary widely, just like player groups will. Some packs will be very cutthroat, and you’ll have to watch your back constantly. Others will be more organized and operate as a team. Just depends on how you want to play.

JP: Is Cutlass or Caterpillar ownership a black mark, or will they be common in civilian (non-pirate) hands?

RR: The Advocacy will not automatically assume that you’re a pirate simply because you have a Drake ship. That being said, if there is a lot of pirate activity in a particular area, you might be more likely to be scanned and identified by an Advocacy ship if you’re in a ship that is typically associated with that sort of activity. Of course, if you’re not up to anything nefarious, scanning won’t be a problem, regardless of what type of ship you’re flying.

JP: Is it an “asteroid” hangar or a “pirate” hangar? Is there a difference?

RR: Asteroid hangar! Not all asteroid hangar occupants will be pirates, nor will all pirates necessarily hang out in asteroid hangars. It’s the occupant that makes a pirate hangar.

JP: So how is an asteroid hangar different from any other hangar?

RR: It’s in an asteroid!

JP: What’s up with the Drake corporation? How does it continue to exist in legal areas of space?

RR: As they will be quick to inform you, Drake does not manufacture pirate vessels. Although their ships are possibly more attractive to those who dwell outside the law, they are intended for non-criminal activity. (At least according to the company’s PR team ….) Some might even say that their ships must be better if pirates prefer them in dangerous conditions.

JP: But declared pirates will get discounts on Drake equipment,
won’t they?


RR: Er … I guess we might have said that somewhere at some point. Or are you just making it up? I guess it depends upon where you buy that equipment.

JP: How will anti-piracy work? Will there be UEE patrols? How can “good” players get involved?

RR: There are several different groups that tend to hunt down pirates. The military does not generally get involved unless there is a major outbreak of pirate activity that seriously threatens the livelihood of a UEE world. The Advocacy and local police groups are more likely to get involved when pirate activity is reported. Bounty hunters also like to hunt down specific individuals from the pirate world. And any of these might contract out a hunt to eager player characters.So it’s not necessarily an easy life …

JP: Meanwhile, we’ve got pirate havens like Spider. Surely the UEE knows about them. Why not go in and clean them up?

RR: The more cynical among the UEE leadership might say that a little piracy is good for the economy. Keeps insurance companies afloat, provides jobs for countless citizens, and creates competition for groups that get too big. And a little piracy is an acceptable level, as far as they’re concerned. Places like Spider do contribute to the economy and would be far too costly to clean up entirely. As long as the pirates don’t get too out of hand, the UEE will generally let them keep to their
own territory. Other races might not be so cooperative, however.

JP: What about player raids on Spider? Will they be sanctioned by the Advocacy, or does attacking any other player (including a pirate) make you a pirate also?

RR: While you do not take an instant reputation hit for attacking a known pirate, you had better be certain that your target actually is a pirate before attacking. We can’t assume that everyone who visits Spider is a pirate. And undertaking freelance missions against pirates still requires clearance from the Advocacy or Bounty Hunters’ Guild.

JP: And, finally, of course ... Who are you that flies so good? Are you insane?

RR: Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on December 02, 2013, 05:38:02 AM
forget it


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on December 02, 2013, 05:39:19 AM
The latest "Jumpoint Magazine" is available for subscribers (and, of course, non-subscribers via "alternative" methods :P). What follows will be probably posted soon enough as an official post on the website, but anyways, here's their current idea of a piracy career in Star Citizen:

JumpPoint 1.12 Drawing The Cutlass (Google Drive - 31.5 MB, PDF) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3xmT9bl4DChdlE2Z1Jzc244MEU/edit?usp=sharing)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on December 02, 2013, 05:41:04 AM
forget it

I saw it and agree  (your point and the thought of 'not worth it') :-)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on December 02, 2013, 06:21:17 AM
JP: What sources do you draw from for creating Star Citizen’s pirate experience?

... Sid Meier’s Pirates! ...

 :drillf: :drillf: :drillf: :drillf: :drillf: :drillf:

This is why I want this game to be exactly what it promises to be, so bad. And this is also why I can't believe it, and won't forgive Roberts if he won't deliver.

Let's face it, you can choose to love or hate this "Promise of a game" but there's no doubt it would be the best thing ever if it happened to be real. The problem is: if the phone rings and a voice says you just won a million dollar, do you believe them? Of course you want it to be true, and you would be the happiest if it happened to be true, but it is gonna take a while for the voice on the phone to convince you it really is true. AND, you are gonna need proof.

This is all what it boils down to: no one here thinks it's a scam. No one here wants it to be a scam, or an overpromising huge flop. What we want is for it to be exactly what it promises, but disappointment doesn't come cheap. Not for me at least, not anymore. So it is only natural to yell in rage at someone for offering you the promise of a perfect game. After all, when's the last time such promises happened to be fulfilled?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on December 02, 2013, 08:40:31 AM
I actually want it to be a scam.

The gaming world needs a giant cockup in this sort of faux-Kickstarter-esque style. Desperately.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on December 02, 2013, 08:41:47 AM
I think it's a scam. It's a scam with a bunch of people who COULD actually create a game, but I don't think they intend to create anything remotely like what they are promising, if they even launch at all.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: KallDrexx on December 02, 2013, 08:43:54 AM
Meh, I think they fully intend to try and create what they are talking about.  I'm less inclined to believe they will execute their grand vision correctly.  But hey, if they do manage to create something full of awesomeness I'll be there with my money, but not until then.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on December 02, 2013, 08:52:40 AM
My apb/hellgate sense is tingling.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on December 02, 2013, 09:32:04 AM
My apb/hellgate sense is tingling.

Exactly.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on December 02, 2013, 09:35:54 AM
Interestingly, APB was to MrBloodworth's reputation what Vanguard was to mine.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on December 02, 2013, 11:04:54 AM
My apb/hellgate sense is tingling.

Fuck me, I loved Hellgate. Despite everything.
 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Furiously on December 02, 2013, 11:49:49 AM
Yea, the games were fun. Just the studios went bankrupt making them.

*Buy more ships!*


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on December 02, 2013, 01:04:37 PM
This is like reading fan fiction for a game that doesn't exist.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Der Helm on December 02, 2013, 03:23:00 PM
This is like reading fan dev fiction for a game that doesn't exist.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: satael on December 02, 2013, 09:23:14 PM
All the great features for this are starting to sound like Vanguard to me but then again if this had been marketed as the "new Space Rogue (http://www.mobygames.com/game/space-rogue)" instead of the new Chris Roberts game I'd have spent alot of money just based on a faint hope of a good game. Now I'm satisfied to just wait for the actual release of the game before spending any money (while hoping it will turn out to be almost as good as every fan thinks it will).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on December 03, 2013, 12:15:23 AM
As much as I loved Wing Commander and as stated multiple times I am secretly dreaming for this to deliver at least half of what is promised, I hear you Satael. To me when it comes to space, nothing topped the emotional investment I had for Elite (and Frontier) first and and Space Rogue a few years later.

But yes, as soon as I typed Vanguard a few posts up, I realized that at this point it is not a bad analogy at all.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Merusk on December 03, 2013, 04:39:28 AM
My apb/hellgate sense is tingling.

I was thinking more like Spore.  Remember all those promises and the combinations of gameplay and game styles THAT was supposed to be?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on December 03, 2013, 08:25:30 AM
As I predicted, the forums are beginning to .. I don't know, is there a word for it? Metastasize? Become a writhing mass of hydatid cysts?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samwise on December 04, 2013, 12:03:57 AM
Will it be possible to launch infants or other characters from torpedo tubes?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Der Helm on December 04, 2013, 04:07:03 AM
I was a bit surprised that there is  "mods" subforum. It is full of people posting pictures of spaceships they have drawn or even rendered themselves.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on December 04, 2013, 04:49:39 AM
In theory, players will have the possibility to mod the game (private servers, of course, and maybe the single-player?):

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals

$4M goal (back in Nov 2012) - "Professional mod tools will be provided free to all players."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on December 05, 2013, 07:24:36 AM
If the customization tools are robust enough, there will be a good handful of really good servers. If history is any indication, some will be designed around handling < critical commonly complained about flaw of vanilla game's combat >


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on December 06, 2013, 01:57:47 PM
The Organizations (Guilds) section on the official website will launch soon:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13418-All-About-Organizations

Sounds pretty slick and detailed. Hopefully it won't turn out like the Guild sub-section on the pre-launch SWTOR website (useless, in the end).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on December 06, 2013, 05:20:20 PM
Hah wait nevermind.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on December 06, 2013, 07:44:39 PM
What? No, put that post back Miasma.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on December 06, 2013, 08:35:21 PM
I'm now even madder that he changed his original post which was good!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pezzle on December 06, 2013, 09:52:03 PM
I concur. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on December 07, 2013, 04:27:12 AM
It was a bad post made under the influence in a thread I'm trying to avoid.  I will stick with the buying a package for schild for him to give away to someone to mock the game if the dogfighting module isn't a failure.

Edit: I mean it actually woke me up an hour after I went to sleep with the thought "Oh God I didn't post in the star citizen thread did I?".  Then I blew it away without thinking.  Then it woke me up again this morning with the throught "Oh God I didn't both post and then blow away the post in the star citizen thead did I?".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on December 07, 2013, 05:41:02 AM
It's refreshing to read someone "on board" starting to post some concerns though. That's why it is not cool that you removed it. Not because we want for the drama to finally begin to unravel (after all, I am a backer of this thing myself), but because there's a need for some objectivity from within the fanbase, instead of just the skirmishing between the skeptics and the believers factions.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on December 07, 2013, 07:52:57 AM
Well yes, but there's nothing significant released to talk about, so I'm not bothering to post from the cautiously hopeful camp.  Fanboys and complete detractors are all that are left.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on December 07, 2013, 09:00:12 AM
His post was basically saying, "Hey Lucas, let's not bump this thing unless we know the dogfighting thing is panning out, because you know, there are concerns about it and we don't want to attract the bears."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on December 07, 2013, 11:32:32 AM
His post was basically saying, "Hey Lucas, let's not bump this thing unless we know the dogfighting thing is panning out, because you know, there are concerns about it and we don't want to attract the bears."
That's completely inaccurate, I had a farside cartoon in there as well!

Also I'm not a fanboy, my consistent opinion has been "I hope this is slightly better than EvE and EvE sucks so how hard could it be?".  My last two posts were "here mock this" and "if they don't get a working dogfighting module the game is doomed".

I don't think even Bloodworth could be considered a fanboy, he mostly just reposted official news (which I appreciate because I'm not going to the star citizen website every damn day).

If you want horrible, horrible fanboys then, as always, consult the official forums.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on December 07, 2013, 11:38:01 AM
Also I'm not a fanboy

That's why, even though you are a backer, your post about caution was particularly meaningful.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on December 07, 2013, 04:39:52 PM

.........

...Looks like I missed all the fun  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on December 08, 2013, 08:21:54 AM
I don't think even Bloodworth could be considered a fanboy, he mostly just reposted official news (which I appreciate because I'm not going to the star citizen website every damn day).
You don't know Bloodworth then. :-P


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on December 08, 2013, 01:20:18 PM
I think I'm gonna petition chris roberts personally to put in a planet called Cobrastan.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on December 08, 2013, 01:41:07 PM
I think I'm gonna petition chris roberts personally to put in a planet called Cobrastan.

Sorry, you didn't reach the stretch goal. It's now called Cobra-La.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: satael on December 09, 2013, 03:24:40 AM
The New Ships Available for Star Citizen (http://www.somethingawful.com/news/star-citizen-gravytrain/)  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on December 09, 2013, 04:53:56 AM
Quote
Don't consider these ships DLC for a game that is not yet been released, consider them investments in your future of gaming enjoyment.

 :heart:

Too bad that the lack of ships beyond the 100$ mark gives away it's not an official sale.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on December 09, 2013, 10:22:26 AM
Quote
Hey, idiot. Want to spend your money on this garbage? We don't even know what it is. Some pop cans attached to a pile of goblin models from a cancelled reboot of Lands of Lore. Maybe? We were going to try to sell you all these different animals you could ride like horses and pigs in Lands of Lore and then we just said "screw it" because we could sell you anything as a spaceship, including horses and pigs. Why bother with another reboot Kickstarter? So join the, uh, whatever, is this a space game still? Whatever it is, get your Sodawolf Mark 2 thing. It has torpedoes. You can fly it inside a bigger ship and put cargo in the goblin. Give it a shot, dummy.

Buy ten of them with the money you were saving for your kids' college fund. These things are sure to go up in value. It'll all be a sound investment. The guy responsible for the Wing Commander movie is making this game. What could go wrong?

I love that link.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on December 09, 2013, 05:33:22 PM
The New Ships Available for Star Citizen (http://www.somethingawful.com/news/star-citizen-gravytrain/)  :why_so_serious:

(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7945646592/hC34EFC8A/)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on December 11, 2013, 03:00:36 PM
A lot of those limited edition ships did indeed turn out to be an excellent value. You could have doubled, tripled, quintrupled your initial investment.

Of course, much like with bitcoin, hindsight does not make something a wise investment.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on December 17, 2013, 02:23:51 AM
DOOOOM AND DESPAIR!!!

Dogfighting module delayed a couple months (long post, quoted in the spoiler). Preview of the module during a 2-hour livestream on December 20th, which will also include other stuff about Squadron 42 and the Hangar Module :

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13432-Letter-From-The-Chairman-On-Dogfighting



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on December 17, 2013, 03:07:43 AM
Well, here we go. The excuse phase.

"We have so much money we can't develop a game while we decide what to do with all that money."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on December 17, 2013, 03:10:05 AM
I read it more as "The dogfighting module was just going to be a cheap gimmick to raise more money, but you already gave us all that money, so now we're just going to work on our backend for a while"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on December 17, 2013, 03:13:13 AM
Might be, but wasn't the modular system supposed to be the cornerstone of their game building philosophy?

edit: my forecast is that if the dogfight video isn't substantial and full of actual content, this game will never even reach playable stage. They're going to spend all the money deciding what to do with the money. And a few sports cars.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on December 17, 2013, 03:32:33 AM
Well, here we go. The excuse phase.

"We have so much money we can't develop a game while we decide what to do with all that money."

You never had that kind of money, so don't judge.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sir T on December 17, 2013, 04:01:34 AM
This may be the beginning of the age of popcorn.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: DraconianOne on December 17, 2013, 05:44:23 AM

Wow.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on December 17, 2013, 06:26:25 AM
Are we really surprised?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samprimary on December 17, 2013, 06:37:31 AM
Bored waiting for the dogfighting module? Buy another ship for $250 you farting fuckshit. CHRIS ROBERTS™ i cannot wait for the dogfighting module


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on December 17, 2013, 06:44:55 AM
Millions of dollars just means more broken promises.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on December 17, 2013, 07:14:16 AM
You guys are so cynical.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Shannow on December 17, 2013, 07:31:45 AM

\/ \/ \/


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on December 17, 2013, 07:49:14 AM
DOOOOM AND DESPAIR!!!

Dogfighting module delayed a couple months (long post, quoted in the spoiler). Preview of the module during a 2-hour livestream on December 20th, which will also include other stuff about Squadron 42 and the Hangar Module :

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13432-Letter-From-The-Chairman-On-Dogfighting



Stop, the room is spinning. Let me gather my wits and read this again. A delay?  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on December 17, 2013, 08:22:46 AM
Well, here we go. The excuse phase.

"We have so much money we can't develop a game while we decide what to do with all that money."

You never had that kind of money, so don't judge.

Yeah I know. I'd be giggling and rubbing it all over myself.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on December 18, 2013, 07:57:30 AM
This has been posted on the Elite Dangerous Youtube Channell but I'll post it in the Star Citizen's thread cause it belongs in both but no one reads the other. Anyway, it's a cool interview that took place a year ago where Chris Roberts and David Braben talk about the future of their crowdfunded games. A lovely video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoLYNN7NltY)

In the remote chance that someone here is too young to know stuff, Chris Roberts would have never made Wing Commander or Star Citizen without David Braben's Elite, although for fairness Roberts points out maybe the biggest difference between their two design philosophies: crafted content for Roberts, procedural content for Braben. Also, interviewe Gary Whitta is an old "gaming journalist" from the 80s and 90s, perfect for the context.

"Chris, Kudos to you this is pretty amazing. You started with a 500k dollars goal, and you are currently at 2.1M, your funding is more than four times over..."

 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on December 18, 2013, 06:57:50 PM
This has been posted on the Elite Dangerous Youtube Channell but I'll post it in the Star Citizen's thread cause it belongs in both but no one reads the other. Anyway, it's a cool interview that took place a year ago where Chris Roberts and David Braben talk about the future of their crowdfunded games. A lovely video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoLYNN7NltY)

In the remote chance that someone here is too young to know stuff, Chris Roberts would have never made Wing Commander or Star Citizen without David Braben's Elite, although for fairness Roberts points out maybe the biggest difference between their two design philosophies: crafted content for Roberts, procedural content for Braben. Also, interviewe Gary Whitta is an old "gaming journalist" from the 80s and 90s, perfect for the context.

"Chris, Kudos to you this is pretty amazing. You started with a 500k dollars goal, and you are currently at 2.1M, your funding is more than four times over..."

 :awesome_for_real:

Elite Dangerous actually looks like its a game now though, in alpha where people can shoot at shit. The alpha only costs like 200 bucks...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on December 19, 2013, 01:29:29 AM
"Ten for the Chairman" video (segment that lately has started airing during the weekly Wingman's Hangar, but this one is standalone), where Chris Roberts answers some more questions about the Dogfighting module (yep, you can call it a "damage control" video):

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13436-Ten-For-The-Chairman-Episode-3

Details about tomorrow's livestream:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13437-Youre-Invited-Livestream-Details

Quote
Greetings Citizens,

First of all, we would like to thank you all for the incredible support regarding the Dogfighting announcement. The response from the community has been more than we could have expected; your appreciation for this project was never in question, and we are impressed that you have a genuine understanding of how game development works. Thank you, sincerely, for your support.

On Friday, Star Citizen developers in Austin, Manchester and Los Angeles will be joining you for a multipart livestream event in order to share our current status. We would like to take questions from the community for the event, and have established three forum threads to draw from. If you have a question for the team, please post it there before the event!

Foundry 42() (Squadron 42)
CIG Austin() (Hangar Patch 10)
CIG Los Angeles() (Dogfighting)

The show will open at 11 AM CST (-5 GMT) with Chris Roberts and the team in Los Angeles. Then we’ll move across the pond to check in with the team at Foundry 42. They’ve just moved in to their new office and are eager to show you around… and share the current status of Squadron 42.

The stream will continue with the epic 50th episode of Wingman’s Hangar and then Hangar Q&A with the team in Austin. It concludes with Chris Roberts and the LA team demonstrating Dogfighting and answering some of your burning questions!

In other news, CIG Austin itself will move its HQ to a much bigger place starting on December 28th (after a longer than expected back and forth checks in other places....drop by and say "hi" on the behalf of F13, Schild  :why_so_serious:)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on December 27, 2013, 07:35:37 AM
What became of this livestream? Gorgeous footage of an awesome game or not?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on December 27, 2013, 05:20:40 PM
http://kotaku.com/30-years-later-one-mans-still-trying-to-fix-video-gam-1490377821

lol


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Goreschach on December 27, 2013, 07:23:13 PM
I knew a guy named Chris once.

True story.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: schild on December 27, 2013, 09:57:48 PM
I knew a guy named Chris once.

True story.
Was he gaming's second greatest conman with a jar of Magic Beads?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Goreschach on December 28, 2013, 06:48:59 AM
I knew a guy named Chris once.

True story.
Was he gaming's second greatest conman with a jar of Magic Beads?

No, but he had his own last name.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on December 28, 2013, 06:58:24 PM
Was he the Governor of New Jersey?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on December 29, 2013, 04:08:13 AM
They put up the stream on Youtube, and the gameplay part is about 7 minutes long, starting at 1:27 or so. There's basically nothing in it. Seriously, the game has no assets except for asteroids and the ships they've sold. This game is never coming out. NEVER. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw7SYWuV_ns


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on December 29, 2013, 05:29:10 AM
Did people actually like the gameplay of Wing Commander?

I always thought WC was super boring and the main selling point was the cutscene stuff. Making a space shooter is tough IMO, because space is so empty it often feels like you aren't really moving and you end up feeling more like a rotating turret than a ship.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on December 29, 2013, 05:58:34 AM
I was more of an X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter fan myself.  But in any event, that gameplay was at least gameplay. 

That being said, I think the actual space combat part of this game is the least interesting part of what they are proposing to me personally.  If this game ends up being a big thing, I can't imagine it's going to be because the space combat is just so amazing.  It'll be because all of the sandbox elements they promise actually work. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Merusk on December 29, 2013, 06:19:30 AM
So... Eve 2.0.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on December 29, 2013, 07:30:19 AM
So... Eve 2.0.

Well, that's essentially what they are promising.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on January 01, 2014, 06:16:11 AM
Eve with dogfighting.  That's all anyone ever wanted, really, so hopes reside upon it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Merusk on January 01, 2014, 06:22:00 AM
Yeah but that lets me know I can totally ignore it.  Eve bored me even ignoring the 'sit around and wait' combat 'patrols'


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Venkman on January 01, 2014, 02:42:39 PM
Eve worked best for me when I knew other people were doing that and the bit part I played was hauling shit around to support it.

If hauling shit around includes realtime dogfighting, I'll definitely give it a whirl. That's really the only reason I even bother reading this ponzi scheme thread. Eventually someone will know enough to be able to confirm what we may get.

Or what got cancelled  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on January 03, 2014, 09:14:55 AM
CIG Austin HQ moving to the new office location (no gameplay! :P):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1jMrsAKaqo


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: slog on January 03, 2014, 09:26:18 AM
Eve with dogfighting.  That's all anyone ever wanted, really, so hopes reside upon it.

I played this game.  it was called Jumpgate.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on January 09, 2014, 10:32:49 PM
Did people actually like the gameplay of Wing Commander?

I did. But it was years ago and the combat itself was pretty basic.

The FMV acting in some of the later games was hilarious too.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Draegan on January 13, 2014, 12:40:37 PM
Eve with dogfighting.  That's all anyone ever wanted, really, so hopes reside upon it.

I played this game.  it was called Jumpgate.

That game was fun too. Damn you NetDevil!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Severian on January 13, 2014, 06:28:41 PM

I played this game.  it was called Jumpgate.

That game was fun too. Damn you NetDevil!

You may still be able to play it if you want to, Netdevil be damned. Here: http://jumpgate-tri.org/


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on January 13, 2014, 06:48:36 PM
Did people actually like the gameplay of Wing Commander?


No. Don't say that.
The true quality of Wing Commander lies with the dynamic campaign where failure does not meant a retry like TIE Fighter / X-WING.
That is one thing I liked about it, the dogfighting was more arcadey and pacier than TIE / XW - but I can dig it. Its nice dynamic soundtrack felt right. Sparks flew and display explodes, theme changes. Gauges all red, no shields, oh boy it's that 'EJECT EJECT' theme.
You had a hard mission you couldn't beat? RTB, campaign ends in a somber tone, future battles becomes harder but still finishable.
There's even a final mission where the whole war has gone bad and the humans are now retreating instead and you had to cover your carrier's retreat.
It's way ahead of its time. But WC 5: Prophecy dropped this idea completely as the FMVs gets more expensive and you can't re-shoot 39246792 cutscenes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on January 14, 2014, 01:03:13 AM
You had a hard mission you couldn't beat? RTB, campaign ends in a somber tone, future battles becomes harder but still finishable.

That feature would have made the game suck for me.  If missions are getting hard, then I want future missions to be easier, because I want to finish the game and see the damn endings without having to become a master of the joystick.

Adaptive difficulty settings without the player even realizing, now that's a thought.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on January 17, 2014, 03:46:37 PM
Here's a video of Chris Roberts visiting the "Foundry 42" studio in Manchester (which, again, is entirely devoted to the single player game), with his brother Erin showing him around.

http://youtu.be/0T_oJlZ8pGI

I posted this because the awkwardness of it all is absolutely off scale  :grin:

On a slightly more serious note, here's Episode 5 of the "Ten for the Chairman" segment:

http://youtu.be/RtyZzO5OrE0


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sobelius on January 17, 2014, 10:33:15 PM
They put up the stream on Youtube, and the gameplay part is about 7 minutes long, starting at 1:27 or so. There's basically nothing in it. Seriously, the game has no assets except for asteroids and the ships they've sold. This game is never coming out. NEVER. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw7SYWuV_ns

I just heard about the game so came pretty late to the party. Pledged for the 300i -- the vision sold me, as did the ability to play the single player story as multiplayer so I can enjoy the elements of the game I like with friends without having some idiot ganking me outside "safe" space just because he can.

The nice thing about coming late to the party is that I don't feel like I've been waiting for this -- it's all new. The hangar is cool -- dogfight module sounds cool and I assume it's coming along. So many games to play in the meantime I figured it was worth throwing money at it to get in whenever it is ready.  They've raised almost $37 Mil  -- nice. With the exception of entering my birth date, the whole sign-up and buy experience was flawless and fast. I paid, downloaded and was walking around the hangar within 30 minutes of my decision to pledge. Here's hoping that level of quality experience extends to rest of game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on January 18, 2014, 05:44:00 AM
Hahahahahah.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on January 21, 2014, 01:29:43 PM
The (for now web-based only, of course) Organization system has been launched. The main thing to know is that you need to have a game package in order to take part (which means, create or join an organization) in it.

Here are the official news article and the FAQs:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13488-Organization-System-Launch
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/faq/orgs

FAQ excerpt:
Quote
What is an Archetype?

An organization is basically what its members and administrators want it to be. We have set up 5 basic archetypes for organizations, but they are exclusively role-play elements, and have no incidence whatsoever on the system, or the future game.

Corporation – a for-profit business entity. A corporation is a great choice for everything from shipping flo-pets to Goss II to organizing a hostile takeover of Origin Jumpworks.
PMC (Private Military Company) – For organizations with a taste for combat. Focuses for PMCs include escorting cargo runs, hunting for pirates or helping the UEE take on the Vanduul.
Faith – Organizations that have come together for a single cause or under a single banner. This could be rebels fighting for Terran independence… or the devout followers of the LAMP!
Syndicate – Common interest groups for those who operate on the edges (or outside) of the law. There’s safety in numbers when you’re moving contraband through Spider or preying on hapless cargo ships.
Organization – Want to make your own way without any previous association? Feel free to keep with the default nondescript type!

Again the Archetype does not have any impact on how the Organization works as an entity.

What are ranks and roles?

The administrators of an Organization have the option to attribute a Rank to any member : this is purely a specific status to signify the importance that a member has earned in the organization. It can be wor with pride, but offers no specific rights.
On the other hand, an organization’s Founder can give Roles to other members, in order to delegate some of the org’s management.

A member can have any number of roles :

Owner can do anything, from recruiting to customization, to simply disbanding the organization.
Recruitment can send out invites to the org, and accept or deny applicants
Officer can manage the org’s members, and their roles/ranks, as well as moderating the Org’s private Chat channel.
Marketing can change the org’s public appearance, official texts, history, manifesto and charter.

I like the fact that you can get creative with roles and ranks  :drill:

Orgs main page:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/community/orgs

Looking forward to the F13's fleet  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Draegan on January 24, 2014, 08:51:21 AM

I played this game.  it was called Jumpgate.

That game was fun too. Damn you NetDevil!

You may still be able to play it if you want to, Netdevil be damned. Here: http://jumpgate-tri.org/

Oh fuck you very much for that link. Just what I need, more games for me to play that I have no time for.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on February 13, 2014, 03:18:44 PM
Yeah, I'm not a tl;dr guy  :why_so_serious:

A couple of updates:

- Bar any last minute disaster, the Dogfighting Module will be unveiled at Pax East (the event itself will be on April 10th), and be available to backers a few days after that. Watch the following video from approx. 9:37 to 11:40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuS4wwPPeFc

- An important news from that segment is the first iteration of their world server, which came online this week, and that will serve as the backbone for the dogfighting module and the Persistent Universe in general (and the main reason for the delay of the DFM)

- The ships are now all receiving the "Physically Based Rendering" - or "PBR" - treatment (beside other modifications to their shape, cockpit etc.); the hangar module will be patched in a few days with some more fluff, then the next patch will be all PBR based;

- As an example, here's the current, PBR version of the Vanduul Scythe:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13568-Scythe-PBR-Update

- More Vanduul concept art at this link (Scythe update, Vanduul Bomber and Harvester):
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13567-Vanduul-Update-Gallery

- Sorry, can't find the link to the interview/forum post/video or whatever, but here's the latest on Squadron 42: the plan is now moving toward episodic content, without having an alpha or beta. Still, they're not talking about chunks of 3-4 hours, but big portions of the game. Consider that the total amount of missions will be about 50 (5 million stretch goal), not counting the first "expansion disk" (I'm a oldie!! :). Of course, 50 is probably, well, the total amount, including branching you will probably see only in a second playthrough or after a re-load.
---

Finally, here's a couple snippets I took from two forum posts  detailing how the whole project is being developed as a worldwide effort:

From Chris Roberts:
http://partedveil.com/index.php?p=2&quote=1909659

From Eric Peterson:
http://partedveil.com/index.php?p=1&quote=105396

I also read a post I can't find at the moment, where a member of the Manchester studio said there are now 33 people working on the single-player game, but they aim to reach a final tally of about 40 (or was it 50? can't remember).

Ooook, sorry for the long post, carry on :)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Xuri on February 13, 2014, 06:46:31 PM
So. Has anyone created any in-game religions for Star Citizen yet? After seeing that there will be a "Faith" archetype for organizations, my mind is starting to weave fanciful stories that involve taking on a L. Ron Hubbard-like persona and creating a fanatic religious cult. For the money, of course.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on February 14, 2014, 05:15:29 AM
With celebrity endorsements.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lantyssa on February 14, 2014, 06:24:19 AM
So. Has anyone created any in-game religions for Star Citizen yet? After seeing that there will be a "Faith" archetype for organizations, my mind is starting to weave fanciful stories that involve taking on a L. Ron Hubbard-like persona and creating a fanatic religious cult. For the money, of course.
No, but I'd be willing to be a convert for the fun of it. ;D


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on February 14, 2014, 10:05:53 AM
So. Has anyone created any in-game religions for Star Citizen yet? After seeing that there will be a "Faith" archetype for organizations, my mind is starting to weave fanciful stories that involve taking on a L. Ron Hubbard-like persona and creating a fanatic religious cult. For the money, of course.

If any player base was ripe for faith-based monetary extractions, it is this one. Good plan.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on February 14, 2014, 10:08:03 AM
Star Evangelist


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on February 14, 2014, 11:15:29 AM
Part of my regular gaming circle has formed a "faith" group, but our MMG guild name has been "Cult of [redacted]" for over ten years now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Der Helm on February 14, 2014, 12:42:25 PM
If any player base was ripe for faith-based monetary extractions, it is this one. Good plan.
Isn't that what this thread is about ?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on February 14, 2014, 06:49:52 PM
I like how the game industry pretends that "Physically Based Rendering" is some sort of new technology.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on February 19, 2014, 03:41:22 PM
Today's "Wingman's Hangar" showed some nice stuff related to Squadron 42:

- First of all, here's concept art, sketches and modeling WIP of a mining station and robots. It seems that the first few missions of the single-player campaign will revolve around a mining operation (and will also introduce players to the Mining mechanic, which will be one of the activities in the Persistent Universe...hopefully a little more involving that in EVE :P)

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/13585-Gallery-Squadron-42-Concept-Art

- Even better, here's some WIP in motion (still a lot of "grey boxing" going on at this stage, but hey...DAT HUGE mining droid  :awesome_for_real: :drill:):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fllp5o5Qkq0  (from 4:47 'til 9:40)

- Also, toward the end of the show, (from 23:50 to 24:46), there is a Skype session with S42 Lead Designer Phil Meller; he declares that, hopefully, the first 10 missions of S42 will be ready for public consumption within the end of the year; then, 10 missions every month after the initial batch (so, he basically confirms the shift toward episodic content)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Sir T on February 22, 2014, 05:15:13 AM
Might I suggest the Church of the Pyramid, who invited the faithful to enlightenment by following the meditation steps of the most holy Ponzi.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on March 04, 2014, 04:21:10 AM
Here's the first "monthly report", a new feature on the SC website. It's a long but useful read if you want to know the current status of the project, how teams are split around the world, what they're working on and more:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13610-Monthly-Report-February-2014



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on March 04, 2014, 06:37:26 AM
212 developers on the project? This thing has Curt Schilling disease.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on March 04, 2014, 10:51:29 AM
Oh look, it's more shit about fundraising. What a surprise.

Meanwhile the December dogfighting module is coming out, in half-finished form, in April.

They have 212 developers. Apparently 210 of them are busy writing fundraising status reports, leaving only 2 to actually work on the game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Rasix on March 04, 2014, 10:52:37 AM
The bitcoin integration stretch goal is within sight!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on March 04, 2014, 11:16:01 AM
212 developers on the project?

This number gives me pause. The project has bloated up to "AAA" on manpower and scope, but the budget is not growing at an equal pace. Unless there are private investors in the background.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: satael on March 04, 2014, 11:50:33 AM
40 million for 212 "developers" to make the game goes a long way but I wonder how much more they will be able to get once the game actually releases since the most ardent fans have spent their money by that time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on March 04, 2014, 11:59:35 AM
He first said 212 "people" and then he said 212 "developers".  I have to assume he meant the former so that includes admin, legal, clerical, accounting and so on.  Even including contractors in developing nations if there were actually 212 programmers/artists/story people that would be crazy huge considering he has "only" forty million to work with.

Oh man I'm going to have to delve into the dark pit of official boards and assume he has retreated from the 212 "developers" statement.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Ingmar on March 04, 2014, 12:04:41 PM
Maybe we missed a donation tier that gets you to be listed as a developer, like in the McQuaid game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on March 04, 2014, 01:52:29 PM
Yes that number is quite worrisome, especially in light of what happened in the fairy land of Rhode Island  :why_so_serious: ; no matter the fact that Roberts seems to be actually a bit more competent on the business side of things (and hopefully with good advisors as well).

The usual argument used when talking about crowdfunded projects and related development costs, is that a really tiny percentage goes to marketing and other fluff, so that most of that money will be used to actually pay those who are working for you, but yes, 212 IS a huge number. Currently, as far as I know, there are partners working with CIG for the current show "The Next Great Starship", so that should be off the pledgers' shoulders. Plus, I don't know how wealthy is/was Mr. Roberts before kicking off this whole thing and/or if the (very good) prototype he showed back in 2012 was financed by external sources.
-----

Regarding the Dogfighting Module, well, first release never meant to be "final", just like the Elite:Dangerous one (actually, if all goes well, v1 of the DFM will be both single and multiplayer)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on March 04, 2014, 01:56:19 PM
I stand by my statement that this is a scam where they know they will deliver on 20% of their promises or less by the time the cash runs out.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on April 02, 2014, 01:14:56 AM
Ok, time for the "real" March Monthly report. Lots of stuff happening on all fronts, and in 8 days they will unveil the Dogfighting Module at PAX East:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13785-Monthly-Report-March-2014


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: KallDrexx on April 02, 2014, 05:43:29 AM
(http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/PEW.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on April 02, 2014, 06:09:04 AM
See? He's ruling and coordinating the studios with an iron fist!  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Pennilenko on April 02, 2014, 07:26:47 AM
While not as fervently hopeful as many of the people interested in star citizen, I still think we are going to get at least a decent space game. My reasoning is that will happen mostly because Chris Roberts himself wants a decent space game to play himself.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on April 02, 2014, 08:38:30 AM
Meanwhile, the newest HUD mockup is a nice desktop wallpaper (1920x1200 image):



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on April 08, 2014, 01:03:37 AM
So, as I write this there are only 2,800 alpha slots left; CIG just released an "Alpha Slots FAQ":

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13802-Alpha-Slot-FAQ

Quote
What are Alpha Slots?

Packages with Alpha Slots will be allowed free access to all of Star Citizen’s pre-release modules, including the Dogfighting, First Person Shooter and others. Our goal was to make Alpha Slots available to our earliest backers, the people who first helped make Star Citizen’s existence possible!

How was the number of Alpha Slots generated?

The initial number of Alpha Slots was calculated based on the number of ‘universe servers’ the programming team believed we could reliably budget for our module rollout. As Star Citizen’s funding has increased, we have been able to go wider and increase the number of first pass slots (you may recall that an earlier stretch goal created more slots by dedicating funds specifically to this purpose.)

Do I need an Alpha Slot to play the Dogfighting Module?

Every account with an Alpha Slot will be eligible to play the Dogfighting Module. If your package does not include one of the ships scheduled for the first release, you will be able to play with a ‘loaner.’ Later backers who do not have an Alpha Slot on their account will be given the option of purchasing a Dogfighting Pass to join the fun!

Can I still play without an Alpha Slot?

Players who join Star Citizen after the slots are gone will have the option of purchasing $5 passes to play the individual alpha modules, with the money going to cover the additional server bandwidth necessary. (For phased launches, like the upcoming Dogfighting Module, passes will not be available until servers have been allotted to all existing backers.) Note that you will need a separate pass for each future module.

Why didn’t I need an Alpha Slot for the Hangar Module?

Since the Hangar Module does not have online multiplayer enabled, we felt comfortable making it available to all backers regardless of Alpha Slot status.

Will you ever add more Alpha Slots?

No. Once the current allotment is over, no more Alpha Slots will be added to the counter. Going forward, players who miss out on the free Alpha Slots may test individual modules by purchasing a module pass (which covers the cost of additional hardware) in addition to their ship package.

What are Beta Slots?

Beta Slots refer to those assignments for joining the future beta test of Star Citizen’s persistent universe. As this launch is further in the future, we have not yet made a final decision on the number of Beta Slots that will be necessary.

* Current price for the cheapest "alpha slot" package (all modules included,) for new backers : $40 (also includes single-player campaign and Star Citizen proper)

* Each, standalone "module pass" will cost $5 (will include only the specific module you purchased the pass for and won't include the finished game(s), of course)

* If they plan some sort of "staggered"/ phased release of any module, priority will be given to alpha slot packages, then standalone "module pass" buyers.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Velorath on April 08, 2014, 02:14:41 AM
Nice, it had been a while since they'd given us an update on what new microtransactions they're going to offer to keep the money coming in.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on April 08, 2014, 06:29:03 AM
(http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/pyramid-scheme-2.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Goreschach on April 08, 2014, 06:57:16 AM
That's really an unfair comparison.




If this was a pyramid scheme, someone other than Roberts would actually have made money.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on April 08, 2014, 07:02:40 AM
Yeah there is one vendor and no one is trying to get teams of people under them to resell spaceships.

I thought people had settled on ponzi scheme?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ezrast on April 08, 2014, 08:25:17 AM
A few people have to see a return on their investment for it to be a Ponzi Scheme. I think it's just "taking people's money."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: tazelbain on April 08, 2014, 08:45:43 AM
"Selling the Brooklyn bridge" i.e. straight up confidence scheme. Odin would be proud.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on April 08, 2014, 09:15:20 AM
It's the worst kind of pyramid scheme. There are different levels of commitment and buying in, but nobody is getting anything except Roberts!  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on April 08, 2014, 11:15:53 AM
They've probably blown through most of the money already, with all the new premises and gigantic number of employees. Gotta get some more!



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: ajax34i on April 08, 2014, 06:59:38 PM
My prediction is that this won't end with a bang, just will get fewer and fewer updates until it's forgotten, Chris Roberts MIA.  Was on page 2 here for a bit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on April 09, 2014, 12:33:30 AM
As much as I really disliked the way they kept pushing for money, way before delivering anything, and the way people got obsessed with it, I predict it will be a real game at some point and most likely a decent one. Possibly good too, after many fixes and patches. I also predict it will have lots of excuses. Loooooooooots of it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on April 09, 2014, 10:04:38 AM
I think I've said it before, but I predict they release 15% of what they promise, make apologies, and then fold up shop since they have no legal liability or actual creditors.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yegolev on April 09, 2014, 12:12:49 PM
Ever the optimist.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Goreschach on April 09, 2014, 01:32:50 PM
If I wanted to give them too much credit, I'd suspect that this is Springtime for Hitler.

The reason for them setting up such a large development outlay, with the multiple divisions and the mocap studio and all that, then becomes obvious. All they need to do is ship a half baked product to avoid fraud charges. After the game bombs and they run out of money, they then turn around and sell the studio itself for a good 20 million.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on April 09, 2014, 03:39:52 PM
They've probably blown through most of the money already, with all the new premises and gigantic number of employees. Gotta get some more!



(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a9/38_Studios_Logo.jpg)

You called?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on April 10, 2014, 06:11:17 PM
livestream starting in about 20-30 minutes:

http://twitch.tv/roberts_space_ind_ch_1


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on April 10, 2014, 07:51:22 PM
Chris Roberts appears hopelessly confused by his own game. He didn't even know how to launch it and once he got into it just spun around in a circle for 30 seconds then accidentally turned his HUD off or something...now he is restarting the game and once again can't figure out how to launch it. I kind of feel sorry for him, he's like a befuddled grandpappy.

I get the impression that he probably swings by the office to check the game out like once a week for an hour. I guess he's a hand off "vision guy" or some shit.




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on April 10, 2014, 07:52:36 PM
I bet he knows how to log in to his offshore banking account.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on April 10, 2014, 07:58:40 PM
A ha ha they just fucking cancelled the show without really showing the multiplayer because they couldn't get it working.

This is hilarious. The guy is clueless about his own game.

"How do I start it? What do I press? Is it even on this machine? What's happening now? Are we in the game? Are we in matchmaking? Are we waiting for players? Why can't I move? What's going on?"

Completely embarrassing. It's one thing to have technical issues at a live event but the guy has no grasp on how his game works.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on April 10, 2014, 08:31:28 PM
(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120402225423/random-ness/images/3/34/Michael_Jackson_popcorn.gif) More please.

Quote
Dogpatch090:  What are people complaining about? Its in pre alpha
Quote
My_ass_is_manly:  this is the fundamental problem of player backed games, no one realises that we're just alpha testers, we're supposed to take the brunt of the bugs and glitche
Quote
Barf_bag: He is the concept, programmers are the ones building it
Quote
Gofr5:  I just loved how so many ppl were like "get this guy off, he sucks, show someone else". lol so many ppl didn't who he was.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on April 11, 2014, 03:32:49 AM
Why would he give a fuck about the game, he's already got the money.

fake edit: I feel this is kinda significant, this was supposed to be his labor of love and yet he couldn't be arsed to prepare for a public showing. Freudian slip if you will.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on April 11, 2014, 04:00:28 AM
I think this livestream once again showed that they simply suck at organizing this sort of thing exclusively in-house, so they better drop it and just pre-record stuff in their studio(s); regarding the bits of the dogfighting module they showed, at least the Player vs. AI part, IMO it was very good for an alpha: really liked the physics, graphics and HUD (hopefully we'll be able to minimize/collapse the majority of its elements). 

Roberts said they plan to release v1 at the end of April/beginning of May, so hopefully it will be in a much better shape after 3+ weeks of bug fixing.

"Ever the optimist"  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on April 11, 2014, 10:26:20 AM
Love that this thread and the Elite:Dangerous thread are so close to each other in this forum atm  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Margalis on April 11, 2014, 02:25:09 PM
I think this livestream once again showed that they simply suck at organizing this sort of thing exclusively in-house, so they better drop it and just pre-record stuff in their studio(s); regarding the bits of the dogfighting module they showed, at least the Player vs. AI part, IMO it was very good for an alpha: really liked the physics, graphics and HUD (hopefully we'll be able to minimize/collapse the majority of its elements). 

The HUD was way too busy and the 3d zooming pieces effect when you lock on was incredibly distracting.

The graphics were good.

The physics...like crashing into an asteroid at full speed then awkwardly rubbing against it?

My takeaway was that they have a good art team and that's pretty much it. The definitely haven't solved the problem space combat games tend to have where it feels like you're a motionless turret. The game as a whole also doesn't appear very functional in terms of combat either - for the brief moment that multiplayer worked Roberts had no idea where the enemies were or who was shooting him - whatever radar system they had appeared to be fairly useless.

It looked like a pretty mess to me basically. And a lot of the pretty comes from the fact that the dogfights take place in arted-up arenas, I have no idea how that will translate to all of space.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: UnSub on April 12, 2014, 12:58:35 AM
My takeaway was that they have a good art team and that's pretty much it.

You can sell a lot of things with pretty pictures alone.

I think I've said it before here, but I'm sure SC will launch something (eventually), but the waves of disappointment from pre-payers will be immense.

I'm also very, very disappointed that pay-for-alpha has become an accepted thing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Draegan on April 30, 2014, 07:21:11 AM
Pay for access has always been a thing. You don't have to pay for it. You just have to wait like you normally would for a game. Stop whining about it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on April 30, 2014, 07:23:45 AM
Pay for access has always been a thing.
:headscratch:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Count Nerfedalot on April 30, 2014, 11:07:43 AM
Pay for access has always been a thing.
:headscratch:


If you knew the right people maybe? I know there were times in the past I would have paid for early access but it wasn't available, to me anyway.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Draegan on April 30, 2014, 01:23:07 PM
It's just a generalization. If you want something early, you could always get it if you paid the right price.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yegolev on April 30, 2014, 01:24:06 PM
THE IRON PRICE


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on April 30, 2014, 01:45:52 PM
THE IRON PRICE

You're having an odd day.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yegolev on April 30, 2014, 02:26:43 PM
Seems pretty normal to me.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85916/orange_tux_dance.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on April 30, 2014, 02:50:23 PM
Probably so, maybe I'm having an odd day.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: jakonovski on May 10, 2014, 03:16:09 AM
Dogfighting module delayed again?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13863-Arena-Commander-Weekly-Report-May-5-9

Quote
I know you’re all impatient to get your hands on the DFM, and believe me we’re all very eager to have it in the state that we can start to roll out it to all of you but as in any ambitious undertaking there’s still some details that we’re busy wrapping up in terms of the backend end, build deployment, matchmaking and network stability over the internet – All the while trying to balance and tune the core gameplay of the DFM.

We’ll have more exact dates to share by the end of next week, which we’ll update you with in next week’s report, but the goal is to start rolling out the DFM towards the end of this month – this will be staged as scaling to 250,000+ players is much more like launching a finished game as opposed to an early pre-alpha for gameplay feedback – our plan is to have Vanduul Swarm (single player against AI) available to everyone from the start, and then give people access to the multiplayer servers in increasing numbers as long as the system holds up. (To answer your next question, the rollout will be based on Citizen number; the earlier you backed, the earlier you will gain access to multiplayer dogfighting.)

We don’t know the maximum number of concurrent players or some of the backend server issues (as we’ll literally be dynamically spinning up hundreds of servers on demand depending on demand) we’re planning to go slow and cautious at first, while we make sure everything works. So please be patient and bear with us. Remember that with Arena Commander we are launching something much more akin to a full game (its feature set is more in line to an action arena combat game like World of Tanks) and to do that for the sheer number of backers that Star Citizen has is a challenge in itself!

— Chris Roberts


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yegolev on May 12, 2014, 11:09:05 AM
1. We are working out the following details: "the entire game"
2. We don't know anything about the server tech we chose, except that it is expensive.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on May 12, 2014, 11:35:20 AM
I wonder what legal recourse people will have if they cracked the books on this project.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Simond on May 12, 2014, 01:10:33 PM
Dogfighting module delayed again?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13863-Arena-Commander-Weekly-Report-May-5-9

Quote
I know you’re all impatient to get your hands on the DFM, and believe me we’re all very eager to have it in the state that we can start to roll out it to all of you but as in any ambitious undertaking there’s still some details that we’re busy wrapping up in terms of the backend end, build deployment, matchmaking and network stability over the internet – All the while trying to balance and tune the core gameplay of the DFM.

We’ll have more exact dates to share by the end of next week, which we’ll update you with in next week’s report, but the goal is to start rolling out the DFM towards the end of this month – this will be staged as scaling to 250,000+ players is much more like launching a finished game as opposed to an early pre-alpha for gameplay feedback – our plan is to have Vanduul Swarm (single player against AI) available to everyone from the start, and then give people access to the multiplayer servers in increasing numbers as long as the system holds up. (To answer your next question, the rollout will be based on Citizen number; the earlier you backed, the earlier you will gain access to multiplayer dogfighting.)

We don’t know the maximum number of concurrent players or some of the backend server issues (as we’ll literally be dynamically spinning up hundreds of servers on demand depending on demand) we’re planning to go slow and cautious at first, while we make sure everything works. So please be patient and bear with us. Remember that with Arena Commander we are launching something much more akin to a full game (its feature set is more in line to an action arena combat game like World of Tanks) and to do that for the sheer number of backers that Star Citizen has is a challenge in itself!

— Chris Roberts

Someone email him a copy of the Elite: Dangerous alpha please.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Stormwaltz on May 12, 2014, 01:26:29 PM
What's surprised me most about this process is how at the beginning - as I think I phrased it in this thread - Roberts had a plan and Braben only had an idea.

Yet since then, Braben has proved far better about sticking to his plan and executing on it. Quietly, competently, and without any upsell.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: WayAbvPar on May 12, 2014, 01:38:04 PM
How much is Roberts McQuaiding for himself?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on May 12, 2014, 01:43:39 PM
The funny thing is that Braben could totally make more money at this point if he decided to go the Roberts way. While I am not happy with the "200£ for Alpha" package, you gotta give him credit that he's obviously using the money barrier as a way to protect the environment, instead of allowing entitled morons to poison it one "20£ package" purchase at a time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Malakili on May 12, 2014, 01:47:29 PM
The funny thing is that Braben could totally make more money at this point if he decided to go the Roberts way. While I am not happy with the "200£ for Alpha" package, you gotta give him credit that he's obviously using the money barrier as a way to protect the environment, instead of allowing entitled morons to poison it one "20£ package" purchase at a time.

It just shows the value of projects that pick a thing and do that thing well.  The be all end all game development model just didn't pan out.  There were a lot of times I got sucked into "the last game I'll ever need!" mentality over the years.  Now I just want something that does it's one thing really well.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on May 13, 2014, 10:12:02 AM
In other news, Chris Roberts hired Alex Mayberry (WoW: TBC, WOTLK, Diablo 3) to act as Executive Producer.

http://cloudimperiumgames.com/news/94-PRESS-RELEASE-Alex-Mayberry-Named-EP-On-Star-Citizen
----

Yeah, the amount of stuff they have on the plate is ginormous and they're having lots of difficulties to put this giant on its feet. We'll see how they manage the rollout of the first version of Arena Commander: so far, basically all their efforts have gone toward that, with less and less amount of time devoted to the development of the Persistent Universe (and inherent elements....Looking at the recently updated "Ship specs" page, they're developing more than 40 ships, counting the variants).

Supposedly, alongside the rollout of other versions of Arena Commander (with multi-crew ships), at Gamescom in August they'll unveil the First-Person shooter portion of the game, entirely developed by another company, Illfonic; from the scarce amount of info about it, it sounds quite strategic, much more akin to Mass Effect 1.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Miasma on May 13, 2014, 10:48:32 AM
If there's one thing a Blizzard exec knows it's how to speed up development and start cranking out concrete results on an aggresive timeline instead of letting things dither for years on end.  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Paelos on May 13, 2014, 10:50:47 AM
This game needs more staff.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yegolev on May 13, 2014, 12:42:29 PM
I'm going to start calling this game Frankenspace: Subtitle To Be Released Soon By Another Producer.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: rk47 on May 14, 2014, 04:19:39 PM
If EA Buys this, the butthurd'd be glorious.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: calapine on May 14, 2014, 05:50:43 PM
If EA Buys this, the butthurd'd be glorious.

Facebook! They seem to be searching for a new revenue streams anyway!  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Simond on May 15, 2014, 10:35:55 AM
If EA Buys this, the butthurd'd be glorious.
You spelt "Activision" wrong.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Yegolev on May 15, 2014, 12:41:56 PM
Would they buy the whole thing, or just a selection of modules?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Merusk on May 15, 2014, 04:18:11 PM
They'll be going with the Diamond package without any of the optional art or customization add-ons.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Falconeer on May 17, 2014, 01:05:56 AM
Apparently the dogfight module will hit in two weeks (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13883-Arena-Commander-Weekly-Report-May-12-16), this time for real.

Quote
Before I leave you to the individual studio weekly reports, I’d like to walk you through exactly what the next two weeks—if all goes well—mean for Arena Commander’s development:

May 17th: our IT groups will be updating our global internal server infrastructure. A lot of the internal tools we use for game development (checking in builds, storing assets, etc.) are in dire need of downtime and update; we’ve been running them in the red zone so we can have 24 hour round-the-world development on Arena Commander. During this downtime we will also be switching over to a much more flexible and advanced architecture for our content management system Perforce. We will be upgrading to using Perforce Streams which will allow much quicker and more flexible movement between code branches for our development team. This prepares us for the added complexity of launching and supporting a live multiplayer service like Arena Commander. Saturday’s update will allow us to push the final Arena Commander update out to the world with much more confidence (corrupted data from these servers was a major issue at the PAX East reveal!)

May 18th: with the new servers in place, we will split off the “Arena Commander Release” branch of Star Citizen. This will separate the Arena Commander you play from the rest of the game that is being developed by other teams. So data checked in by teams around the world that doesn’t have anything to do with dogfighting (such as FPS weapons, planetside maps or future ship assets) won’t cause additional bugs for the team to worry about.

May 19th: The QA team will begin their final troubleshooting session with the new Arena Commander Release branch. They will go through the entire game and catalog all the current bugs they can find – ships not spawning in the correct place, physics not functioning correctly, disconnects during battle and so on. This will help to generate our final “Must Fix” list for release. It is important to remember though that our internal QA team cannot find everything and it is very likely that we will not fix everything prior to release. We are releasing playable code to the community much, much earlier than you normally would in AAA game development. Because of this it will not be as polished as a final game would be so we are going to need a lot of support from all of you to help us in bug finding and gameplay feedback!

May 23rd: The official cross-studio playtesting of the Arena Commander Release begins. This represents a “pencils down” phase where, unless you are working on an authorized must fix issue the team is expected to QA the game as much as possible. After this point, only a limited number of “designated driver” team leads will be able to check in any changes to the game itself.

May 27th: By this point, we hope to have the egregious, game breaking issues resolved but there will still be plenty of known and unknown issues. This is also our deadline for making sure the launcher is hardened for the deluge of users and the first set of necessary servers for the release have been spun up. After this point all check in privileges will be revoked and will only be returned on an as needed basis by senior Production staff and myself.

May 28th: The release candidate build of the game will be compiled. If all goes as planned, this is the version of Arena Commander you will be playing! The team at Turbulent will begin switching over the website to the version that will make Arena Commander available to backers. I will personally ‘sign off’ Arena Commander as ready for the community on the evening of the 28th. To be clear, we fully expect that there will be bugs remaining, potentially some bad ones. That said, our primary focus is getting a version out to the community to help us find all the issues and work together to improve Arena Commander.

May 29th: This morning, the web team will spin up additional authentication and web servers in the in anticipation of high traffic during the release. The engineering team will begin “warming” caches on cloud servers around the world, making sure the release candidate game is ready and waiting for users. By the end of the day, we will update the website making the game available, and the first public release of Arena Commander (which we’re calling v0.8) will be live to the world for testing!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Mrbloodworth on May 20, 2014, 08:20:56 AM
Relevant.  :awesome_for_real:

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/260lap/newcomers_guide_to_star_citizen/


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Lucas on May 21, 2014, 06:19:51 AM
A fictional background of the software house developing the Arena Commander combat simulator. Sounds familiar  :grin:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13886-Galactic-Guide-Original-Systems

---

Later today, during Wingman's Hangar, we should get a glimpse of the single-player scenario (Vanduul Swarm) which will be available for everyone*  on Day 1, May 29th.


* that is alpha backers and, more recently, beta backers who, beside a ship package, also purchased an arena commander pass.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on May 24, 2014, 05:11:46 AM
So, the first release of Arena commander is still on track for May 29th, next Thursday  :grin:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13891-Arena-Commander-Weekly-Report-May-19-23

The attention to details continues to be amazing on the graphics side (pilot suit and helmet) but also on what could be considered more marginal things: for example, among the other features that the latest Letter from the Chairman (released yesterday) outlines, is the work being done on the cargo system (diagram pic in the letter), and also a peculiar room that we'll have access to on the Banu Merchantman freighter, called the "Negotiation room" (the letter includes a concept art pic):

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13888-Letter-From-The-Chairman-44-Million

Quote
You’re looking at what we call the “negotiation room” in the Banu Merchantman freighter. It’s a place where traders can invite others into their ships, display their cargo (the bay is visible) and make deals!

As we look to the next stages of Star Citizen beyond dogfighting, we’re putting more and more thought into how systems like cargo and trading will take shape. We’re building a system that makes sense, measuring ship interiors, building a standardized cargo container measurement system (see diagram) and determining exactly how cargo will be loaded, unloaded and interacted with in port (and during flight!) As the most recent set of changes to our preliminary ship stats reflect, transporting cargo is going to be more complex than just finding the ship with the highest storage capacity… it’s going to involve finding the right ship type for the job.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on May 24, 2014, 07:00:21 AM

Quote

As we look to the next stages of Star Citizen beyond dogfighting, we’re putting more and more thought into how systems like cargo and trading will take shape.



 :uhrr:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on May 24, 2014, 07:24:40 AM


Quote

As we look to the next stages of Star Citizen beyond dogfighting, we’re putting more and more thought into how systems like cargo and trading will take shape.



 :uhrr:
[/quote]

Isn't it nice that they are giving a thought on how cargo and trading will take shape in the future?   :why_so_serious:
(then again you'd think trading would be a bit further along than "putting thought into how it will take shape" since it is kind of a big part in games like this)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on May 24, 2014, 07:51:39 AM
Maybe they mean how you'll have to board the other person's ship, perform a special clan handshake to agree to the deal, then drive the cargo boxes from your cargo hold into the other person's cargo hold.

I mean, I would normally say I'm joking but they do have to justify the purpose of you being able to run around your space craft and physical cargo holds somehow......


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Miasma on May 24, 2014, 08:49:22 AM
The cargo system is a running joke and the poster child for stupid shit they shouldn't be doing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on May 24, 2014, 10:00:13 AM
Cargo and trading seems to be intertwined in a much more tangible way because, as they're hinting, they want to somehow visualize the actual cargo, which might also get damaged, or taken if someone successfully board your ship, etc.

The proper "economy" system is already in the works, they mentioned it multiple times in the previous weeks...But regarding it, you probably still have to see THIS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lmLb2fbeQs

Watch from about the 18:00 mark  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on May 24, 2014, 10:02:09 AM
The idea that people will meet in a physical space to shake hands and inspect cargo is just hilarious.

It would be neat if cargo was represented by actual objects in your cargo hold. That has a lot of cool ramifications, like a hole getting blown in your ship and distinct pieces of cargo falling out.  But nobody is going to travel to the cargo hold and physically inspect the cargo - that is why menus exist. That sort of thing gets old after the first time you do it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on May 24, 2014, 10:15:43 AM
The idea that people will meet in a physical space to shake hands and inspect cargo is just hilarious.

It would be neat if cargo was represented by actual objects in your cargo hold. That has a lot of cool ramifications, like a hole getting blown in your ship and distinct pieces of cargo falling out.  But nobody is going to travel to the cargo hold and physically inspect the cargo - that is why menus exist. That sort of thing gets old after the first time you do it.

That's exactly what they're aiming for: consider that capital ships (or multi-crew, smaller ships anyway) will also be flyable and boarding will be possible. In other words, you could put other crew members (PC or NPCs) in the cargo hold to guard it if you see trouble incoming.

Over designed and bloated? Yep, might be; potentially very cool? Yes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on May 24, 2014, 10:27:03 AM
The idea that people will meet in a physical space to shake hands and inspect cargo is just hilarious.

It would be neat if cargo was represented by actual objects in your cargo hold. That has a lot of cool ramifications, like a hole getting blown in your ship and distinct pieces of cargo falling out.  But nobody is going to travel to the cargo hold and physically inspect the cargo - that is why menus exist. That sort of thing gets old after the first time you do it.

It won't get old if the stakes are high enough. But no game will do that, except maybe Eve but they'll fuck it up in other ways.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on May 24, 2014, 10:34:51 AM
Quote
The idea that people will meet in a physical space to shake hands and inspect cargo is just hilarious.

Wait, wait. This is a thing? hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahah

no


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on May 24, 2014, 11:54:44 AM
That's exactly what they're aiming for: consider that capital ships (or multi-crew, smaller ships anyway) will also be flyable and boarding will be possible. In other words, you could put other crew members (PC or NPCs) in the cargo hold to guard it if you see trouble incoming.

Over designed and bloated? Yep, might be; potentially very cool? Yes.

Over designed is the very last thing I think here. The design of everything in this game is little more than "wouldn't it be cool if?" without any concrete design behind it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Torinak on May 24, 2014, 03:32:50 PM
The idea that people will meet in a physical space to shake hands and inspect cargo is just hilarious.

It would be neat if cargo was represented by actual objects in your cargo hold. That has a lot of cool ramifications, like a hole getting blown in your ship and distinct pieces of cargo falling out.  But nobody is going to travel to the cargo hold and physically inspect the cargo - that is why menus exist. That sort of thing gets old after the first time you do it.

That's exactly what they're aiming for: consider that capital ships (or multi-crew, smaller ships anyway) will also be flyable and boarding will be possible. In other words, you could put other crew members (PC or NPCs) in the cargo hold to guard it if you see trouble incoming.

Over designed and bloated? Yep, might be; potentially very cool? Yes.

Awesome! When I want to kick back with a game after a hard day, the first thing I think is "Gee, I'd love to be a glorified mall cop for a few hours!" :uhrr:

Have they announced a pricing model for the minigames you can play while sitting around in someone else's cargo hold? Maybe $50 for a Bejeweled clone, or $2500 for the deluxe virtual handheld gaming system that plays an emulated Wing Commander I?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on May 24, 2014, 11:14:33 PM

Over designed and bloated? Yep, might be; potentially very cool? Yes.

It sounds cool because people imagine it like the movies where two illegal smugglers meet in some clandestine location to do their business.  The thing is the movie cuts directly to the interesting 30 seconds and then the scene is over.  In real life you're spending an hour on something that should be done, as others have noted, via an interface in 2 minutes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on May 24, 2014, 11:34:32 PM

Over designed and bloated? Yep, might be; potentially very cool? Yes.

It sounds cool because people imagine it like the movies where two illegal smugglers meet in some clandestine location to do their business.  The thing is the movie cuts directly to the interesting 30 seconds and then the scene is over.  In real life you're spending an hour on something that should be done, as others have noted, via an interface in 2 minutes.

And stuff like that is interesting once or twice but repeating it dozens of times gets tedious very quickly.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on May 25, 2014, 02:15:36 AM
Yeah, I understand, and it will probably get old for anyone including me, don't worry :P

The thing is, when it comes to trading between two players or NPCs, I think that Merchantman ship scenario is just one among many.
Another, already detailed, is visiting shops and other POIs planetside, that will also give out NPC missions and host other features. And since they're going for an handcrafted approach, it's safe to assume that it will be a tad more professionally done than the latest X: Rebirth fiasco.

Also, just like any other MMO, going down planetside (or inside a space station) is a way to show off your character outfit and have a chat with your "real" avatar and not just your ship.

And hey, maybe, after a while (don't think it will be immediate) they might allow you to trade and commerce via a total computerized interface from your ship, just like EVE or Elite Dangerous.
----

Regarding boarding ships and possibly "guarding" cargo, it's just an immediate reaction to the danger of being boarded, not something you need to do around the clock :P . Also, consider that the other, potential crew of your multi-person ship can be made entirely out of NPCs/hirelings and THEN you can also go there in person to participate in the fight.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: UnSub on May 25, 2014, 02:43:55 AM
The design of everything in this game is little more than "wouldn't it be cool if?" without any concrete design behind it.

A lot of people have reacted to this design style by wantonly throwing money at it, so it seems to be working.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on May 25, 2014, 04:43:28 AM
Regarding boarding ships and possibly "guarding" cargo, it's just an immediate reaction to the danger of being boarded, not something you need to do around the clock :P . Also, consider that the other, potential crew of your multi-person ship can be made entirely out of NPCs/hirelings and THEN you can also go there in person to participate in the fight.

Do we really KNOW anything about boarding though?  Or do we just imagine it's like the opening scene of star wars and therefore cool?

There is way too much in this design that feels like something that would be really engaging a scene in a movie, but not as a game mechanic.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on May 25, 2014, 04:59:26 AM
Here:

http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Boarding

As shown at the bottom of the wikia entry, that is taken from the early internal doc they had regarding this particular feature. From other interviews/Q&A sessions during the various shows etc. the outline is still more or less the same as of today.

The FPS module, which will feature an outlaw space station first, and then the possibility of boarding multi-crew ships (possibly integrated in Arena commander, so you would have a sort of "mini-loop" with dogfight, disabling ship and boarding action), will of course give them better data about pretty much everything concerning that feature.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Kitsune on May 25, 2014, 11:46:03 AM
I can't see having a compelling firefight in many of these ships, given that they only seem to be about the size of a tractor trailer.  You open the door and there's some guy crouched behind a box six feet away, and that's your arena.  It's not exactly a fight through the corridors of the rebel blockade runner.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on May 25, 2014, 06:56:54 PM
You guys have moved to the topic of boarding, but my question about the cargo inspection thing is, what exactly are you inspecting for?  Cockroaches?  Mold?  Weapons underneath a thin layer of sand?  Drugs inside archeological artifacts?  Cause it seems like he isn't coding all that functionality and all cargo will be the same - a gun is a gun is a gun - thus there's nothing to inspect, just wasted time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on May 26, 2014, 08:19:41 AM
I was going to mention that. Inspection implies a lot of stuff - can cargo be damaged to different degrees? Can you purposely mislabel cargo boxes? Can the cargo itself have varying degrees of quality, which can only be ascertained through inspection?

There's a lot of stuff that goes into making inspection worthwhile.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on May 26, 2014, 08:21:56 AM
None of which is going to be fun to do if you have to do that inspection action every single trade...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on May 26, 2014, 08:34:05 AM
The idea that people will meet in a physical space to shake hands and inspect cargo is just hilarious.

It would be neat if cargo was represented by actual objects in your cargo hold. That has a lot of cool ramifications, like a hole getting blown in your ship and distinct pieces of cargo falling out.  But nobody is going to travel to the cargo hold and physically inspect the cargo - that is why menus exist. That sort of thing gets old after the first time you do it.

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/hqzvc5dqbemp2r/source/Cargo_Container_Screenshots.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/OoeYEVD.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on May 28, 2014, 09:46:18 AM
Cargo inspection game has come and gone.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85916/cp.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on May 28, 2014, 01:04:53 PM
Yeah, I understand, and it will probably get old for anyone including me, don't worry :P

The thing is, when it comes to trading between two players or NPCs, I think that Merchantman ship scenario is just one among many.
Another, already detailed, is visiting shops and other POIs planetside, that will also give out NPC missions and host other features. And since they're going for an handcrafted approach, it's safe to assume that it will be a tad more professionally done than the latest X: Rebirth fiasco.

Also, just like any other MMO, going down planetside (or inside a space station) is a way to show off your character outfit and have a chat with your "real" avatar and not just your ship.

And hey, maybe, after a while (don't think it will be immediate) they might allow you to trade and commerce via a total computerized interface from your ship, just like EVE or Elite Dangerous.
----

Regarding boarding ships and possibly "guarding" cargo, it's just an immediate reaction to the danger of being boarded, not something you need to do around the clock :P . Also, consider that the other, potential crew of your multi-person ship can be made entirely out of NPCs/hirelings and THEN you can also go there in person to participate in the fight.

Can I remind everyone how shitty SWTOR was when you had to constantly run through giant empty and useless spaces when landing on planets to get to the "fun" stuff?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on May 28, 2014, 01:32:29 PM
Yeah, it was pretty bad Draegan, especially in SWTOR: while I liked the attention gave to the environments, they were devoid of anything remotely interesting, like casual banter between NPCs, animation variety etc.

But here I don't think we'll see gigantic spaces, even in spaceports or planetside; let's take planetside, for example:

- Your instanced hangar (with possible multiple rooms for immersion sake, where you can also invite your friends)
- External landing zone
- Commercial hub (buy ships, commodities, ship equipment)
- Leisure hub (bar, other similar buildings)

But everything will be near each other (then of course they'll attempt creating interesting vistas e of the whole urban environment/zone you are in). I would say that the areas I listed above, minus the instanced hangar of course, might result in... hmm...Less than half the size of the Citadel in Mass Effect 1? (and of course you'll be able to run)

Yeah, you won't be able to cut directly to them like, let's say, Freelancer or Privateer, but since everything is handcrafted and no matter what, they're not Blizzard, it won't be like traversing Orgrimmar :P


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on May 28, 2014, 01:51:21 PM
What is cargo inspection actually for, besides making you go through the motions?  Can a guy like, put the wrong cargo in there and try to fool you?  Can he sell you 15 tons of space rocks instead of 15 ton of whatever crystal you're after?  What can I do if he has showed up with the wrong stuff?  Can I just shoot him in the face and take it anyway?  Do I lament the fact that this guy has decided to try and screw me and, while I guess at least I didn't fall for it, there is nothing I can do about the hour I just wasted?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on May 28, 2014, 02:10:18 PM
What is cargo inspection actually for, besides making you go through the motions?  Can a guy like, put the wrong cargo in there and try to fool you?  Can he sell you 15 tons of space rocks instead of 15 ton of whatever crystal you're after?  What can I do if he has showed up with the wrong stuff?  Can I just shoot him in the face and take it anyway?  Do I lament the fact that this guy has decided to try and screw me and, while I guess at least I didn't fall for it, there is nothing I can do about the hour I just wasted?


Note: what I'm writing is a mix of what I read/heard and also my interpretation of the ideas they outlined during forum Q&As, shows, interviews, etc.

No wait, there is probably a misconception here: from everything I've read, for now there is no realistic cargo inspection planned, meaning that you don't have to go to your cargo area, or a common area inside a Merchantman ship for example, open the crates and check every single piece of equipment :P.
Still, cargo won't be just a list of items on a computerized screen: on any ship where you can transport cargo, there will be a visual sample/representation of the crates (they speficially mentioned this) and, inside them, a sample representation of the goods contained.

Let's say "cargo" can get damaged during a boarding action or even during heavy dogfight, I assume (and, again, they threw in this specific idea) you'll see that same visual representation I mentioned before now damaged.

They also mentioned they're currently investigating ways to make the smuggler "profession" viable with their current concept of cargo and trading, but it's quite an advanced system that I think it's normal not to have implemented already in the game, at this time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ingmar on May 28, 2014, 02:36:11 PM
What's to stop some 3rd party from coming along and just blowing up both of your ships while you're having your little FPS boarding shootout and your ships are drifting together in space for however long that takes?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on May 28, 2014, 02:46:17 PM
What's to stop some 3rd party from coming along and just blowing up both of your ships while you're having your little FPS boarding shootout and your ships are drifting together in space for however long that takes?

As it stands:

- Like it's written it the current boarding outline doc linked a few posts above (http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Boarding), boarding has some very specific pre-requirements. With added balacing and experimentation, I think the Dev Team won't make boarding an inconvenience that wil happen to your multi-crew ship every day, 20 times a day. But hey, we'll see.

- With multi-crew ships, there are advantages and trade-offs: you can assign one or more of your crew mates (PC or NPCs) to pay attention for a boarding action, and actually fight off invaders while you still try to put things back online in the ship command center (or just via your ship main cockpit or whatever); or, you join him/them yourself, but the scenario you outline in your message (3rd party) becomes a reality.

- Still, in UEE space (civilian space), attacking a "neutral" ship means immediate bounty on your head, and possible kill-on-sight attempt by the UEE NPC ships that might teleport in the sector where the boarding is happening ("GUARDS!!!"  :grin: :grin:)

- Hence, boarding will be much more convenient in lawless space, but again, expect to find everyone much more "ready" in those areas.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on May 28, 2014, 02:55:55 PM
The problem with this is that it requires a lot of prototyping to explore the systems and see if they even make sense, but their development approach is to put a series of vertical slices next to each other and call it a full game.

Independent vertical slices are extremely unlikely to come together into a coherent whole with systems this complex.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on May 28, 2014, 03:21:16 PM
So, I'm confused about the relationship between boarding and trading I guess.  Cargo inspection first came up in the context of trading and then we go onto boarding, and frankly I don't understand the relationship between the two.

Maybe I need to go back to basics here.

A guy has some stuff in his ship.  I want to buy it from him.  What happens?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on May 28, 2014, 03:24:13 PM
You invite him to a group, so you can enter his instanced ship, and then look at his cargo and inspect it.  Then you exit his ship and go back to your ship, and both of you open a secure trade interface and he drags the icon of the cargo to the interface and you type in the amount, and both of you hit accept.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on May 28, 2014, 03:29:30 PM
@Margalis

I was writing a much more detailed message, but no, let's keep this simple: I think it's not that different from trying to create a sandbox MMO, which infact is VERY difficult to create while making it "fun" in the process  :grin:. And that's because, among other things, realism calls for more realism.

The major bullet points of any space sim created in the past are all there, including what Elite: Dangerous is doing, just with a different approach (just like Frontier and Privateer were doing so much time ago). With SC, there is also the single-player cinematic adventure, similar to Wing Commander.

The current "Hangar" is no more than what "instanced housing" will be in Star Citizen; then, you'll just visit shops in person instead of visualizing them on a computerized screen; the FPS part, beside boarding, will be something not THAT different to MMO arenas or battlegrounds, maybe in a much more "story-driven" environment.

- Boarding is quite a different thing here, yes; plus all those possible scenarios that come from a "sandbox" approach and how they interact with the whole economy and reputation system (SC characters won't have levels or skills).  

It's a question on how you put everything in place: yes, there will be compromise, maybe in the end some systems will be much more "game-y" than what they aimed for, but the most common features of any space sim will be there.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ingmar on May 28, 2014, 03:36:31 PM
Their ability to handle shit continuing to happen outside when you're transitioning between indoor/space 'instances' is where I see the huge challenge being. Unless you're going to be actually flying your ship from the FPS interface, sitting in your chair and looking out a window or whatever, there's a very big area for problems arise when you try to glue the FPS to the space sim.

It reminds me a bit of the main problem with turning a game like Pirates! or Mount & Blade into a multiplayer game and including the overland map along side the battles.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on May 28, 2014, 03:41:58 PM
So, I'm confused about the relationship between boarding and trading I guess.  Cargo inspection first came up in the context of trading and then we go onto boarding, and frankly I don't understand the relationship between the two.

Maybe I need to go back to basics here.

A guy has some stuff in his ship.  I want to buy it from him.  What happens?

I think that, in this case, is just like opening a trade interface in any MMO; The fact here is that Roberts is batshit crazy about immersion. Let's return to the snippet I posted about the Merchantman "negotiation room":

Quote
You’re looking at what we call the “negotiation room” in the Banu Merchantman freighter. It’s a place where traders can invite others into their ships, display their cargo (the bay is visible) and make deals!

So, Merchantman will be a player flyable ship, but I assume we'll also see other Merchantman run by NPC crews; the visible bay is just a show off because, like I said, Roberts is batshit crazy about immersion. It's possible that the negotiation room will be some sort of flying "shop" for the Banu Merchantman only, so that you have to go there in person to have access to the shopping and trading interface. But again, it's pure speculation for now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on May 28, 2014, 03:58:51 PM
Their ability to handle shit continuing to happen outside when you're transitioning between indoor/space 'instances' is where I see the huge challenge being. Unless you're going to be actually flying your ship from the FPS interface, sitting in your chair and looking out a window or whatever, there's a very big area for problems arise when you try to glue the FPS to the space sim.

It reminds me a bit of the main problem with turning a game like Pirates! or Mount & Blade into a multiplayer game and including the overland map along side the battles.

They're exploring other possibilites I haven't mentioned, yet (sorry if I can't provide the source, I'm usually more accurate than this, but everything is buried in snippets among various kinds of media):

- When a ship is under attack, they're considering using faster animations for the avatars, so that transitions themselves are quicker (can you do that in a multiplayer environment?). Same would happen during a dogfight when one of the crew have to move from a co-pilot seat, for example, to a turret.

- They're considering booby traps for the cargo; or traps to place on the floor and so on; Via your command center, you will be able to deplete a room of oxygen, or take out gravity. Everything so that you can pay attention to the external environment. But yeah, situational awareness is a big "IF".
----

But there is a much more interesting possibility, that ties with their current idea of the multiplayer environment for Star Citizen. As you may know, it won't work as in EVE (a big sandbox world): they're going for a strange and debatable "matchmaking" system (yeah, I don't like it, although I understand the need for it) . Take some time to read this. Since Nov 2012, it hasn't really changed:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12770-Chris-Roberts-On-Multiplayer-Single-Player-And-Instancing

Plus, this:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/87865/common-misconceptions-about-star-citizen-mk-ii/p1#Comment_1568172 ("the tricky stuff")

So, it might be highly possible that, once a boarding action starts, all the interested parties are brought to an instance that looks like the area they're actually in, so there is no external disturbance. And that is one of the compromises I talked about in my message above.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on May 28, 2014, 04:05:36 PM
In Elite: Dangerous (as I know you know, Lucas) trading is managed by menus and your cargo is pretty much just names on a list. Still, when you are attacking another ship, if you care about taking what they are carring, you have to actually aim for the cargo port before blowing them up in order to have the cargo float out of the destroyed port and salvage as much as you can after the battle.

The point is that even in a game that is about ten times more streamlined (for financial and design reasons) than Star Citizen they managed to come up with something interesting when it comes to cargo without cluttering it with dreams of virtual reality or a true, authentic, believable Second Life in space.

And we are back to square one with Star Citizen: it's easy to promise EVERYTHING, even easier to dream it, but can you actually design it? Can you code it? Can you make it work? While we all secretely hope so, nothing tangible points in that direction so far.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on May 28, 2014, 04:33:53 PM
The major bullet points of any space sim created in the past are all there, including what Elite: Dangerous is doing, just with a different approach (just like Frontier and Privateer were doing so much time ago). With SC, there is also the single-player cinematic adventure, similar to Wing Commander.

Making a list isn't making a game.

Rapid prototyping is how you create complex systems that work. Or very careful design. This game has neither. What happens when they get to the cargo / boarding section of the game then realize that ship-board combat is terrible because the way the ships are modeled the hallways are too narrow? The kind of stuff you run into almost instantly if you try to develop the systems together, but that you won't run into if you do them one at a time.

Maybe the big cargo carrying ships are just too big and a huge pain in the ass to walk around. Maybe they're too small. Maybe the ships that smugglers would use don't have the cargo room to smuggle anything worthwhile. Maybe entire ships have no place in the game that develops and modeling them is a huge wasted effort.

This is like drawing a person by drawing one elaborately detailed, fully finished finger, then the next finger, then grabbing a thumb that a separate team did, joining those all together with various other body parts and hoping you get a great portrait instead of a monstrosity.

It's just not a good method of game development. If you ask 100 game producers how to make a game 99 of them will tell you this isn't how it's done, and the 1 remaining guy will be someone at Ubisoft where they've mastered assembling parts from different studios together through long practice.

They are praying that it all comes together. Not planning in such a way that that will happen, or using a methodology that ensures that will happen. Just hoping. It probably won't.

I'm not opposed to having physical cargo. I'm not opposed to any cool ideas. What I am opposed to is developing the game as a series of modules, and developing module A in a way that doesn't take into account modules B through Z.

They've basically chosen to make their game as a series of vertical slices. Who does that? Developers hate vertical slices!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on May 28, 2014, 04:57:12 PM
Well, at this point, I'm sure it would be interesting to get a SC dev to answer that kind of valid issues you put foward, Margalis.

I'm not so sure they're so..."disjointed" in their current production/development method as you suggest, though. Or that they're not developing a "module" with the other combining parts in mind once the project is complete. For example, what if they built the multi-crew ships with already in mind the average height of an avatar and its possible animations (including the speed from point A to B), all provided by the stock cry-engine editor?

Plus, from what I understand, this "module" approach is also a way to present the playerbase with playable stuff 'til release, so that they can test in advance. A few days ago, the community coordinator, Ben Lesnick, mentioned in the official chat that the current SC "full" client is 200GB  :grin:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/130892/star-citizen-is-200-gb-what

So, there might already be some sort of SC "client" where they're slowly putting the big picture together via very rough (to say the least) iterations of the various sub-systems.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on May 28, 2014, 08:14:00 PM
And....drum roll please...arena commander module is delayed.

Not ready for release due to problems and stuff. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13898-Arena-Commander-V8-Delay)



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on May 28, 2014, 08:30:15 PM
For the past 3 days or so the Neogaf thread on this has been "only 3 more days to announce a delay." It's pretty funny. With the constant delays and the total botch at PAX people are starting to wise up.

This is a multiplayer online shooter, done in an engine used to make multiplayer online shooters. It was supposed to be released in what, February? (Edit: Actually December originally according to their forums!) And we think a bunch of complex systems being made by different teams are going to come together and form a good game in any sort of non-glacial timeframe?

Honestly...these guys need to fucking hire a producer. It's like they have no idea how to make a video game, or how to read one of a million pieces of written wisdom on how to make a video game. Maybe Roberts is just old and set in his ways - white-boxing, "find the fun", constant iteration and prototyping, "fail fast", getting the system running as a whole then iterating - these have been common practice for a decade.

I'll say it again - these guys have voluntarily chosen to structure development as a series of vertical slice releases, when it's generally understood that each vertical slice you do is a counter-productive drain on resources you only do at the behest of a publisher. (Except for maybe the first one you do to set the bar, establish tone and goals, etc)

For fuck's sake. Stop adding polygons to the fucking underside of a wing on a ship when you don't even know if the ship fits into the game. Stop doing motion capture when you don't even know what the verbs in your game are and what motions you need to capture.

Put together a game that has the major systems in place to some degree with shitty flying winnebagos for graphics and go from there. Being able to change the texture on the calendar in the hangar can wait.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on May 28, 2014, 08:30:43 PM
So have they actually released anything yet?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on May 28, 2014, 08:56:34 PM
I also want to say that now you see why publishers won't support some of these KS games. It's not because publishers are terrible and greedy and close-minded and don't recognize demand, at least not always. Often it's because publishers aren't dumb and don't want to work with unreliable people.

A lot of KS games, especially the earlier ones, were pitched as a sort of "us vs them" where publishers were them. But they're largely proving that publishers are correct when they pass on these games.

Publishers won't fund a game like Broken Age. Gee, I wonder why? The game went way over budget, was delayed, released as half a game and sold poorly.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on May 29, 2014, 01:16:55 AM
Regarding the "Us vs. Them" mentality of KS projects and publishers, yeah, I agree, but mostly because I've never embraced the "evil" concept of the publisher (save for very few exceptions).

Regarding the need of a Producer, looks like Chris Roberts agrees with you, as I reported a week ago:

Quote
in other news, Chris Roberts hired Alex Mayberry (WoW: TBC, WOTLK, Diablo 3) to act as Executive Producer.

http://cloudimperiumgames.com/news/94-PRESS-RELEASE-Alex-Mayberry-Named-EP-On-Star-Citizen

Regarding the use of Cryengine in the "space dogfighting" environment (with all that entails), the devopers mentioned that, apparently, it's significantly different compared to your average FPS "ground" level and poses new challenges, but hey, I'm no game dev.

Here's the latest on the bugs (they will provide daily reports) :

Arena Commander V.8 Bug List – May 28, 2014

Blockers

Vanduul Swarm – Display drivers can crash when Vanduul spawn or blow up
Lag in feedback and update of essential game events resulting in increasingly divergent multiplayer sync

Critical

Battle Royale (Crash) – While Flying (Shader)
Camera – After respawn character is stuck looking up
Vanduul Swarm (Crash) – Shortly after missile lock
All Maps – Occasionally, when first spawning into the maps lasers and ballistic fire is invisible but can be heard when firing – they eventually appear
Crash on exit after returning from DFM match
Character is unable to exit DFM Aurora bed if helmet is on
G-force animations are not playing on the pilot in any of the ships
Character and parts of cockpit interior vanish while accelerating

EDIT: Looks like they made significant progress

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/26rp39/travis_days_chat_updates_on_dfm_bug_list/

Quote
Blockers
Vanduul Swarm –Driver Crash Fixed

Lag in feedback and update of essential game events resulting in increasingly divergent multiplayer sync

Critical

Battle Royale (Crash) – While Flying (Shader) Fixed
Camera – After respawn character is stuck looking up. Still Open
Vanduul Swarm (Crash) – Shortly after missile lock Fixed
All Maps – Occasionally, when first spawning into the maps lasers and ballistic fire is invisible but can be heard when firing – they eventually appear Seems fixed.
Crash on exit after returning from DFM match Fixed.
Character is unable to exit DFM Aurora bed if helmet is on Fixed.
Gforce animations are not playing on the pilot in any of the ships Fixed, awaiting full regression test.
Character and parts of cockpit interior vanish while accelerating Fixed.

Note that anything listed here as fixed is "Claimed Fixed".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on May 29, 2014, 04:24:09 AM
From the post:
Quote
It would be foolish to release an unstable build, even if pre-alpha for the sake of meeting an internal deadline. This is the power of the crowdfunding that made Star Citizen possible: a publisher would make us ship tomorrow regardless of the current build quality… but as you are all focused on quality rather than a financial return for shareholders we are able to take a few more days to deliver something that is stable.

What a crock of shit, and I'm sure most people buy that.  It's people like him that enhance the "us vs them" mentality surrounding publishers.  If a publisher was involved the publisher wouldn't have them ship arena commander at all and instead more focus on the actual core game.  For a game that realistically wouldn't see the light of day (as a complete game) for at *least* a year most of those bugs are not super critical to focus on immediately, but since they've forced themselves to release pieces in isolation publicly they are forcing themselves to fix something that will most likely break again prior to the release of the actual, full game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on May 29, 2014, 08:41:01 AM
Quote
Blockers

    Vanduul Swarm – Display drivers can crash when Vanduul spawn or blow up
    Lag in feedback and update of essential game events resulting in increasingly divergent multiplayer sync

Critical

    Battle Royale (Crash) – While Flying (Shader)
    Camera – After respawn character is stuck looking up
    Vanduul Swarm (Crash) – Shortly after missile lock
    All Maps – Occasionally, when first spawning into the maps lasers and ballistic fire is invisible but can be heard when firing – they eventually appear
    Crash on exit after returning from DFM match
    Character is unable to exit DFM Aurora bed if helmet is on
    Gforce animations are not playing on the pilot in any of the ships
    Character and parts of cockpit interior vanish while accelerating

Most of the bugs they listed are reported Fixed. Its off to QA.  (https://imgur.com/a/FzCWi/noscript) At most the game is delayed a day or two. Not months.




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on May 29, 2014, 10:51:49 AM
What a crock of shit, and I'm sure most people buy that.  It's people like him that enhance the "us vs them" mentality surrounding publishers.  If a publisher was involved the publisher wouldn't have them ship arena commander at all and instead more focus on the actual core game.  For a game that realistically wouldn't see the light of day (as a complete game) for at *least* a year most of those bugs are not super critical to focus on immediately, but since they've forced themselves to release pieces in isolation publicly they are forcing themselves to fix something that will most likely break again prior to the release of the actual, full game.

For a pre-alpha all these issues are fine, with the exception of frequent crashes. They want to release something polished as leverage so that they can continue to collect more money. Polishing one tiny part of the game makes little sense.

As far as hiring a producer...they hired the D3 producer, lol. That's exactly the opposite of what they need. Blizzard is another company that polishes up alpha builds well before it's required (in part so they can show it at Blizzcon), then throws away a bunch of that work and starts over. Another company that pays little attention to schedule.

They need someone like a Gameloft guy used to making a game entirely from scratch in 3 months.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on May 30, 2014, 02:04:55 AM
Not coming today (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13902-Arena-Commander-V8-Daily-Bug-Update-May-29-2014), but the most important part:

Quote
Do not be too concerned that today’s list (of bugs) is longer than what appeared yesterday: it’s not unusual for additional bugs to be generated as we squash more serious issues.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maledict on May 30, 2014, 02:47:31 AM
A guy on PA mentioned that he had spent over $1000 dollars on this.

That really scares me - I'm not exactly a great saver myself, but the thought of giving $1000 to a dream that may or may not actually come true is really shocking to me. That's a decent holiday!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on May 30, 2014, 03:02:52 AM
Here's another update from 30 minutes ago (as of this message), taken from the official chat where the Assistant Producer, Travis Day, dropped by:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/134183/travis-day-chat-notes-30-mins-ago





Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Goreschach on May 30, 2014, 04:09:59 AM
Ok, now you're just going creeper.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Miasma on May 30, 2014, 04:20:55 AM
A guy on PA mentioned that he had spent over $1000 dollars on this.

That really scares me - I'm not exactly a great saver myself, but the thought of giving $1000 to a dream that may or may not actually come true is really shocking to me. That's a decent holiday!
There's a guy on SA in for over $11,000.  Anyone with an Idris class ship is basically in for more than a $1000 and there are a lot of Idrissesessses.  Amazingly, you can still sell your Idris for more than it cost, on the gray market.  So those people can actually make their money back and then some.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on May 30, 2014, 03:24:52 PM
I'll say it again - these guys have voluntarily chosen to structure development as a series of vertical slice releases, when it's generally understood that each vertical slice you do is a counter-productive drain on resources you only do at the behest of a publisher. (Except for maybe the first one you do to set the bar, establish tone and goals, etc)

It's almost like they are developing in the exact order of the funding rounds they achieved on KS. Because nothing could go wrong with that approach  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on May 30, 2014, 04:07:55 PM
I don't know how true this is, but I read on Neogaf that after doing the hangar module they had to redo the ships it included to include the physically-based rendering, and also because the thruster placement didn't make sense once they got their flying physics working.

That's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Until you have the systems running you have no idea if the design of the ship even makes sense. Even once you have the flight physics working you still don't know if the ship interiors are laid out properly for FPS boarding fighting, or if the ship concept even ends up working in the game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: calapine on May 30, 2014, 04:45:33 PM
I don't know how true this is, but I read on Neogaf that after doing the hangar module they had to redo the ships it included to include the physically-based rendering, and also because the thruster placement didn't make sense once they got their flying physics working.

That's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Until you have the systems running you have no idea if the design of the ship even makes sense. Even once you have the flight physics working you still don't know if the ship interiors are laid out properly for FPS boarding fighting, or if the ship concept even ends up working in the game.

That detail is something that's causing some whine on the official forums actually. There is the 300 type of spaceships that have a [power]class 4 reactor that takes up 50% of the entire ship. And then there is the Avenger type ship that has a more powerfull class 5 reactor that seemingly fits into briefcase.  :grin:

I used my very limited graphic-editing skills to create an illustration. Voilà:

(http://i.imgur.com/YdWrmQP.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: UnSub on May 31, 2014, 02:19:21 AM
From the post:
Quote
It would be foolish to release an unstable build, even if pre-alpha for the sake of meeting an internal deadline. This is the power of the crowdfunding that made Star Citizen possible: a publisher would make us ship tomorrow regardless of the current build quality… but as you are all focused on quality rather than a financial return for shareholders we are able to take a few more days to deliver something that is stable.

What a crock of shit, and I'm sure most people buy that.  It's people like him that enhance the "us vs them" mentality surrounding publishers.  If a publisher was involved the publisher wouldn't have them ship arena commander at all and instead more focus on the actual core game.  For a game that realistically wouldn't see the light of day (as a complete game) for at *least* a year most of those bugs are not super critical to focus on immediately, but since they've forced themselves to release pieces in isolation publicly they are forcing themselves to fix something that will most likely break again prior to the release of the actual, full game.

I'm incredibly curious about what Star Citizen looks like at launch and if all the people who put their money into it now are going to be willing to pay more once they see the entire game.

Right now SC can't even get its basic deliverables right, let alone a single / multi-player / MMO / super feature rich space game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on May 31, 2014, 03:21:45 AM
New trailer for the Dogfight Module out (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7Nzbjo8uxU), even though now it's called Arena Commander.

It certainly looks pretty and spirited, but of course, and as as usual, it doesn't say anything about actual gameplay. Ah well, we are gonna find out soon anyway, right? Right?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on May 31, 2014, 03:48:13 AM
Well, you could compare the first, upcoming  :why_so_serious: iteration to E:D Alpha 1.0 (single-player combat only with scenarios) and the first multiplayer alpha. Now, of course, all the comparisons stops there 'cause we won't get the equivalent for the E:D Alpha 3.0 or 4.0 for quite some time :P (but hopefully the first episode of Squadron 42 won't suffer a lot of delays...right, Right?)

The new 300i cockpit looks fantastic (first pic of the article)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on May 31, 2014, 04:05:16 AM
In all honesty I can't fucking wait to put my hands on Star Citizen arena commander/dogfight module or anything that lets me fly a ship, and that's why I am pissed at the constant delays. Even more so now that I have the Elite Dangerous comparison (yeah, I bought in), but as usual I am not trying to bash Star Citizen, I am just hoping they will finally deliver something even though everything so far points to the opposite. Which makes me even more nervous since I'm a backer and I can't afford too much schadenfreude.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Miasma on May 31, 2014, 07:28:29 AM
I'm incredibly curious about what Star Citizen looks like at launch and if all the people who put their money into it now are going to be willing to pay more once they see the entire game.

Right now SC can't even get its basic deliverables right, let alone a single / multi-player / MMO / super feature rich space game.
Despite all the screw ups and failures the game still takes in tens of thousands of dollars in new pledges every day.  You can see the chart on their main page https://robertsspaceindustries.com/ .  On Wednesday when they announced they would again miss their latest promised released date there was a jump in donations to 70k.

If I trusted those shady gray market sites I would have sold my account months ago.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on May 31, 2014, 07:42:32 AM
Fuck me, they are still taking in over a million per month.......


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: calapine on May 31, 2014, 09:37:51 AM
Fuck me, they are still taking in over a million per month.......

That's a lot for fundraising, yes. I'd actually be most worried that in the end theoretically they'd be able to deliver on most promises but just run out of money. Considering they have over 200 people now working on this they must burn through funds at an alarming rate.

Edit: Does Chris Robert (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKcVI1rNz44) look terrible here? Those bags under his eyes and generally he comes across as exhausted. Watching this makes me feel sorry for him.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on May 31, 2014, 09:42:28 AM
They aren't going to deliver, have no fears.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: calapine on May 31, 2014, 09:55:22 AM
They aren't going to deliver, have no fears.

And you suck! Oh btw your sport blog is crap and that's why NO ONE reads it! And Baseball is the most boring sport ever anyway! *slams door*



[Green, in case I have to say it!]

Edit: Btw, DFM is supposed to be coming out next week. They are working on it over the weekend. (Is it normal/healthy to start with crunch two years before release?) I actually believe this estimate, but except it to be an unplayable mess. Especially for Falconeer who just played a fairly polished beta like Elite.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Stormwaltz on May 31, 2014, 11:14:18 AM
I still want the game to succeed, but every day it feels more like they received so much money so fast, they couldn't figure out responsibly use it. Every time they've announced a new feature, equipment aquisition, or team spinning up, I've cringed.

My interpretation is that they were unexpectedly handed all the resources to implement a long, steady development, and instead of socking it in the bank to dig into as needed, they tried to do everything at once. It's something like the Peter Principle applied to a company. I do think there was a plan to do all they've announced eventually, but the company grew too fast to take it all on in an organized fashion.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on May 31, 2014, 02:11:52 PM
They aren't going to deliver, have no fears.

And you suck! Oh btw your sport blog is crap and that's why NO ONE reads it! And Baseball is the most boring sport ever anyway! *slams door*

Temper temper!  :awesome_for_real:

I just don't trust anybody with this much cash and absolutely no legal reason to deliver on even half the crap he promised. I've watched too many developers blow games with actual shit on the line.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on May 31, 2014, 03:14:00 PM
Regarding crunch time, it's the consequence of creating a "virtual slice", like Margalis said, of this ambition and for a BIG audience compared to the present status of the project. If they manage to stick to their plan, in about a month the full multiplayer version of Arena Commander (which is, all the single seaters, not the multi ones) will be playable by about 400,000 players and counting.

Also, and that's positive, it's basically testing for the single-player game (with the A.I. enemies) and the Persistent Universe, but both without a context that would risk a certain "burnout" (a proper plot or trading runs). HUD, ship balance, physics, lightning, implementation of the engine on a variety of specs and more.

Arena Commander represented a HUGE and messy bottleneck for the last 8-9 months, but in perspective in might prove very useful.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Miasma on May 31, 2014, 03:31:59 PM
They aren't going to deliver, have no fears.

And you suck! Oh btw your sport blog is crap and that's why NO ONE reads it! And Baseball is the most boring sport ever anyway! *slams door*

Temper temper!  :awesome_for_real:

I just don't trust anybody with this much cash and absolutely no legal reason to deliver on even half the crap he promised. I've watched too many developers blow games with actual shit on the line.
I think he cares more about his ego than his wallet.  If this fails he will go down as one of the worst developers ever, he is either too stupid or too optimistic to understand that it is currently failing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on May 31, 2014, 03:33:23 PM
I don't think it matters. He can care all he wants too, but I think this thing is out of his control.

The problems of giving people this much money happens on the front end, as they spend wildly on people and assets.

EDIT: In essence, the hole has already been started. Now it's a matter of just trying to keep people digging.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on May 31, 2014, 03:42:13 PM
Every time this thread gets bumped I know I'll hate the result of clicking on it.

It has never once fallen short of my expectations. What a fucking cult.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Count Nerfedalot on June 02, 2014, 05:10:52 PM
Well, for a slightly silver-tinged (if you squint hard enough in just the right light) lining, their income is probably still exceeding their expenses, assuming their executive compensation packages aren't front-loaded like a former 989 Studios' developer's crowdfunded project turned out. So there is actually a chance that this thing could auger in and go splat and they'd STILL have enough money to start over and do it right!  It just needs to go *splat* sooner rather than later while there is still money to rebuild with. Unlike, say, a certain ex-baseball player's business trajectory.

OK, snowballs have a better chance in hell, but it's still a non-zero chance!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 03, 2014, 11:40:20 PM
Dogfight Module is live. Downloading now, 10 gigabytes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on June 03, 2014, 11:55:55 PM
Are you requisitioning cycles from a bitcoin mining operation to run it?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 04, 2014, 12:22:44 AM
Download is over but I am at work so I won't be able to try it for another 5 hours. I am sure someone else will report here before me.

EDIT: maps not loading, files missing, shit happening. In short: not working yet, nobody's in. (http://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/279y7d/very_first_impressions/)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on June 04, 2014, 01:54:36 AM
The 28-pages AC manual, completely done "in-fiction", much like the old Wing Commander manuals :)

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/dpd639fngtcakr/source/Arena-Commander-Pilots-Guide-V0-8.pdf


EDIT: looks like they fixed the problem with the AC maps not loading.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 04, 2014, 02:10:58 AM
In the meantime, new store page: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/cross-chassis-upgrades


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on June 04, 2014, 03:23:46 AM
Twitch directory for live streams:

Linky (http://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Star%20Citizen)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 04, 2014, 05:52:26 AM
This game is very aracde-y. Damage numbers when you hit enemy ships are not of my liking. Hope they are only active in the "drone simulation". I understand people love them, from World of Warcraft to World of Tanks. Still...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lantyssa on June 04, 2014, 06:01:37 AM
Yeah.  It would be silly for the ultimate space sim to have floating numbers.  We'll see.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 04, 2014, 06:14:11 AM
They don't float, that would be ridiculous. No, they just appear below your crosshair, supposedly in your ship's HUD. Makes slightly more sense.

Anyway, my very first comment after 20 minutes fighting drones is that it feels like.... Warthunder in space. Which is not even a bad thing, but Warthunder in space has already been made by the same company that makes Warthunder, and it's called Star Conflict (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nEZIcSYDNk).

Also, and it goes without saying, Star Citizen will have the sandbox stuff and that will make the difference.

Anyway, this is just a very first impression and I am not even gonna lie, it is clearly influenced by my recent Elite: Dangerous experience, which atfer trying both I am inclined to prefer. So don't take any of this too seriously.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Typhon on June 04, 2014, 06:19:36 AM
They don't float, that would be ridiculous. No, they just appear below your crosshair, supposedly in your ship's HUD. Makes slightly more sense.

Anyway, my very first comment after 20 minutes fighting drones is that it feels like.... Warthunder in space. Which is not even a bad thing, but Warthunder in space has already been made by the same company that makes Warthunder, and it's called Star Conflict (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nEZIcSYDNk).

Also, and it goes without saying, Star Citizen will have the sandbox stuff and that will make the difference.

Anyway, this is just a very first impression and I am not even gonna lie, it is clearly influenced by my recent Elite: Dangerous experience, which atfer trying both I am inclined to prefer. So don't take any of this too seriously.

That's funny (ok, only to me).  I was responding to your previous post ("arcade-y") that they probably saw how much effort War Thunder put in the Sim game, but the arcade is the more popular mode and decided to lead off with something simpler (and honestly it's truer to their roots, Wing Commander was not a simulator).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on June 04, 2014, 06:50:52 AM
There is also a topic on the official forums talking about this aspect of the game:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/137450/arcadey-commander-chase-the-mouse/p1
---

Anyways, still downloading :P (you do what you can with a puny 6Mbps connection :P)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on June 04, 2014, 10:27:52 AM
Wow, this thing handles like dogshit. Even if I hadn't played Elite Dangerous yet, I would still be extremely disappointed. There was zero support for my joystick set up, no control customization, flying with the keyboard and mouse sucks. No way to control vertical or lateral thrust, and if there was it was impossible to figure out. This is extremely disappointing to say the least. I am glad I only wasted 45 bucks.

Some people might say its alpha and yadda yadda, that doesn't invalidate the fact that their core physics and flight control are complete trash. No matter how much depth and economy and trading and other shit you can do in it, you are still going to have to spend the most time interacting with their bullshit physics and control scheme.

I can't even begin to use words to explain the gulf of quality between Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 04, 2014, 11:03:08 AM
I Disagree. The Physics are rather solid. My Joystick works great, and showed me the Difference between mouse an keyboard (Logitech® Extreme™ 3D Pro Joystick).  Leading me to the M&KB discussion. Mouse flight has a dead zone, and is demonstrably less effective at precise controlling and flying of your ship. While you may have a slight Gimbals with a mouse, you will be out maneuvered, in tight areas, completely smashed into objects. With the mouse, you will be sliding around and be flying using jerky corrections and the Flyby wire and thrust will have to catch up. Its also just the first implementation of the control systems, bare and default.

Performance wise, it runs better than I was expecting on my rig, I was expecting crippling performance issues. No noticeable low FPS, no hitching nothing. The only issue I noticed was a slight delay on disk streaming for textures in some instances. Not sure if that's the LOD systems or just unoptimized throughput. The Damage model is simply amazing. I had functional parts falling off and being destroyed which in turn effect flight and combat characteristics. I was quite surprised when one of my wings was blown off, but killed the chase plane because it went though the windshield.

As for control customization, I would assume that to come, but each setup has a default mapping guide. (http://imgur.com/a/eoMXN)

As for ED, and a quality gulf. I Imagine its not that hard when you have 1/5 the complexity, and years more development time. I would find it hard to compare, unless I was in a vacuum.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on June 04, 2014, 11:29:34 AM
Quote
I would find it hard to compare, unless I was in a vacuum.

hmmm


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 04, 2014, 11:44:43 AM
Quote
I would find it hard to compare, unless I was in a vacuum.

hmmm

There is a lot of that here.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on June 04, 2014, 11:47:51 AM
I use a thrustmaster t-flight hotas x, which like I said had no support for my stick. There was no reverse thrust and no lateral or vertical thrusters, only forward throttle of varying degrees. The ship feels like it has no mass. Using any type of Yaw control produces a noticeable wobble. There is an appalling lack of interior sounds. I'm assuming the interior of the ship should be pressurized since there is a sleeping bay in it. There should be sounds inside the ship. The UI is horrible and unintuitive. Many of the keyboard key-bindings do nothing.

Elite and Star Citizen have had roughly the same amount of development time. In elite, I can jump between 6 major systems currently or take my sweet ass time flying to any star I can see. I can trade, hunt down pirates, be a pirate, and participate in faction battles that I do not have to experience special loading screens to get to. When dog-fighting in elite, I can switch between assisted and non assisted controls "easily", I have complete control over my ship vector and thrust in any direction and the ship feels like it has the appropriate amount of mass. Oh yeah,in Elite I can also dock, undock, buy ship components and inspect upgrades while docked. If I don't want to do any of the above I can just fly around and explore.

Star Citizen has the slowest load times of any game, I have ever played including battlefield 4. In outside views, textures randomly disappear and sounds that do exist fade in and out. One thing Star Citizen has going for it is that you can walk around, but that's about all you can do, in a tiny room with a tiny fish tank.

I know that you have a considerable amount of money and emotion invested into Star Citizen Mr. B, please do not think I am trying to attack you personally, I do feel that you are not seeing or playing the same game I am. I have zero nostalgia for the old games and am looking at these two games with a fresh look.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 04, 2014, 12:07:29 PM
Yeah, there are a number of reports about HOTAS setups not working correctly.  Seems to working for some, but not all. Drivers are being pointed at in some cases. But I don't have one, so I'm not following that all that closely.

I know that you have a considerable amount of money and emotion invested into Star Citizen Mr. B, please do not think I am trying to attack you personally, I do feel that you are not seeing or playing the same game I am. I have zero nostalgia for the old games and am looking at these two games with a fresh look.

I Don't. In all cases. Its the first day of an early release of an extreamly ambitious and early version of a portion of a game. I expect experiences to vary wildly based on hardware and such. I Was pleasantly surprised by my performance, you were not. And no, ED has had many more years of development time, the kickstarter campaigns were around the same time. ED started Development after 3, even if in a limited fashion as they tried to find funding. For me though, there is no strife between the two titles. Even both development houses have supported each other, especially during the kick starter campaigns.

There are STARK differences in scope of the two games however, and I feel you need to take that into consideration when comparing the two. Weather you believe the scope is justified/feasible or not. Its still there, and ED in nearly every category is a smaller scope in comparison. Least of which is Procedural VS. Handcrafted.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 04, 2014, 12:13:09 PM
Not that random people's opinions are worth that much but on the forusm there's a lot of crying because apparently having a HOTAS is gimping yourself and in fact people are asking Roberts to "nerf mouse" (sereiously, they are). So if you feel that a joystick makes you superior to K+M congratulations, you must be really good (no sarchasm intended).

I am not sure why you think Elite is gonna be so less complex than Star Citizen, there might be some misinformation on your side. Granted, Star Citizen is promising to let you travel around your ship and land on planets at launch while Elite says that will come in an expansion, but that stuff is easy to boast when you plan to launch in 2016 or so. Braben is being cautious, walking in stations and planetary landing will happen but not until the core game is released and working. I can live with that, especially because Elite is *supposedly* coming out in a working state by the end of the year.

So, I wouldn't call developing so many "modules" separated from each other so much more complex when it literally takes ages to do it. These two games started development pretty much at the same time, and when it comes to "dogfighting" one seems to be already fine, while the other is struggling for no apparent reason despite having ten times the budget of the other one.

Or let me rephrase it:

These guys -and I specifically mean the ones tasked with the Star Citizen's dogfight module since everything is a "module" here- have been working within a well estabilished and documented engine like the CryEngine for about 19 months (same as Elite, with a proprietary engine) and all they have been able to show is an arena with bots and two (!) player ships? It's hard to call that impressive, and now that it is out it is difficult not to feel something along the lines of "Wow.. almost two years working while swimming in cash, and this is it? Seriously?"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on June 04, 2014, 12:14:09 PM
Quote
I would find it hard to compare, unless I was in a vacuum.

hmmm

There is a lot of that here.

Or, you know a lot of people with more games than time so they can't really waste it on a game that isn't fun to play regardless of whether or not you can justify a reason why it is that way.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 04, 2014, 12:22:02 PM
I am not sure why you think Elite is gonna be so less complex than Star Citizen

There is more complexity in the flight model, the damage model, and systems than ED. To name one of many. Its simple to compare bullet point to bullet point with out the details of how its really implemented. Also, your statement about cash seems to imply they have spent it all on just this module, so it should be better.

Again, both games look great. I'm just stating I have a hard time with "elite is better" when its not nearly as complex. The ships alone are not comparable to me.

I just wanted to share my experience, especially in performance. Believe me when I say, I was expecting it not even to run for me at this point.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 04, 2014, 12:34:18 PM
I could list the many things where Elite is much more complex than Star Citizen, and I could ask you what makes you think that, for example, the flight model is more complex in Star Citizen because it looks and feels the other way around, but it doesn't matter. Damn, Elite has science behind the flight model and the galaxy simulation where Star Citizen has a 100% arcade soul. Not that one is better than the other, but "more complex"?
I know you are usually very well informed, and I might be the one in the wrong this time, but it really sounds like you are completely out of the loop when it comes to Elite: Dangerous. Not sure if you have tried it, not sure how much documentation you have read. You might be in for a surprise, but then again, it doesn't matter. Seriously, no reason to try and top each other on this. Eventually time will tell.

The only thing I want to say is that my problem with Star Citizen so far is tht I was expecting to be blown away, after all this time waiting for what is supposed to be an incredible game. Instead, I was met with a generic space shooter with good graphics. That doesn't mean the whole thing won't be awesome, I still hope so, but we have finally put our hands on something and damn it tastes like plastic. I don't know where they put the money, all I know is that they HAVE and HAD the resources to produce a mindblowing space dogfighting experience even in this early stage and I challenge anyone to say that it is.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 04, 2014, 12:44:55 PM
I could list the many things where Elite is much more complex than Star Citizen, and I could ask you what makes you think that

I Don't think you can. With possible exception of the Procedurally generated systems.

Example:

Damage model: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0fYd8Ns7DI

The hornet alone has over 100 objects that can break off and be rigid body body objects in the scene.  Reference my story of how my wing got blasted off and hit the trailing plane and went though his windshield and kill him. In Comparison I only know of the mounted guns, and a Decal Deformation system in ED. With possible exception of the canned animation of a capital ship.

That's what I mean by complexity, and I'm posting this to clarify what I mean. I'm just happy there are space games again.

EDIT: Also, SC is not Arcade, its pure Newtonian, to the point that they have had to move Vector thrusters during revisions of the ships because the artist was "incorrect". (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/1275295/#Comment_1275295)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on June 04, 2014, 02:11:14 PM
Rationalization engines engage, maximum thrust!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on June 04, 2014, 02:13:32 PM
We're going to start getting to the fun part of this thread over the next year.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on June 04, 2014, 03:13:46 PM
The topic I linked above is getting bigger and bigger, with valid points indeed, but I think people are getting overly dramatic on the subject. Official forum drama...incredible, uh?  :why_so_serious:

Now, I'm not surprised in the least about the approach Roberts took when it comes to the Flight Control system, compared to the Elite one; just try to play Privateer and then Frontier II, or Freelancer and Elite Dangerous. Elite:Dangerous, just like Frontier, or X3:TC, have a more "laid back", "meditative" approach (and yeah, probably more on the simulation side); can you say the same for any game released by Chris Roberts, including Strike Commander? I feel it's just a matter of expectations.

Single player will take a cinematic approach, and the PU itself won't resemble X3:TC or Elite Dangerous at all because Roberts wants an entirely different monster, just like he wanted something different compared to the first elite, or a different feel compared to XWing/Tie Fighter when it came to flight control or mission design.

Regarding Arena Commander, within the next couple patches (which hopefully won't take ages to implement) we'll surely get fully customizable controls, with more profiles for joysticks. In the Arena Commander launch letter, they also mentioned they're working on ship balance, flight system, and everything else concerning it will be an ongoing process.

What I don't like, and I hope they get tweaked, are all the little "adjustments" the automated flight control system makes, even when you try to toy around with the various settings (try ctrl - CAPS LOCK to disable g-force control, comstab; or just caps lock for coupled-decoupled mode. And finally, try CTRL - F). Plus, deadzones for joystick and sensitivity for mouse are abysmal, so hopefully they'll get better.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on June 04, 2014, 03:33:36 PM
Single player will take a cinematic approach, and the PU itself won't resemble X3:TC or Elite Dangerous at all because Roberts wants an entirely different monster, just like he wanted something different compared to the first elite, or a different feel compared to XWing/Tie Fighter when it came to flight control or mission design.

The whole point of this game is supposed to be that it's the ultimate PC hardcore gamer flight sim. That was the pitch. Not that's it's Square Enix's Sylpheed for 360. They set the expectations and collected huge amounts of money based on those expectations.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on June 04, 2014, 03:45:25 PM
Single player will take a cinematic approach, and the PU itself won't resemble X3:TC or Elite Dangerous at all because Roberts wants an entirely different monster, just like he wanted something different compared to the first elite, or a different feel compared to XWing/Tie Fighter when it came to flight control or mission design.

The whole point of this game is supposed to be that it's the ultimate PC hardcore gamer flight sim. That was the pitch. Not that's it's Square Enix's Sylpheed for 360. They set the expectations and collected huge amounts of money based on those expectations.

I know what you're trying to say, Margalis, although I'm not so sure that the whole picture of having the "ultimate" space sim (which entails trading, landing on planets, economy, dogfight, various kinds of space "activities", walking around with an avatar and more...Something that Elite Dangerous wants to implement too, albeit with a whole different pace and development approach) necessarily needs a more "simulative" approach to dogfight. Elite Dangerous is covering this particular facet perfectly, anyway.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 04, 2014, 03:50:07 PM
They can have a Newtonian model running underneath but at the moment their Intelligent Computer Flight System makes your ships fly as if they were out of Star Fox 64. You know what other game was PURE Newtonian? Braben's Elite 2 Frontier (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UMIbdN0UFE), and among its many qualities the fun of the dogfights wasn't one of them. In order to make Newtonian bearable and playable Roberts put in things like the IFCS, except he went too far and the result is an arcade shooter.

I am sure they will tinker with it and make it less floaty. There's no way they are going ahead with such a poor (adjusted) flight model.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on June 04, 2014, 03:55:08 PM
Yeah, infact Frontier II was excellent but boy, those dogfights, what an endless drag :) . Anyways, they surely won't lack feedback on this particular issue, judging from the forums :P. And I think there is room for toying around without having to dramatically change the way ships work (the whole "gimballed" vs non-gimballed guns thing that is going on).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on June 04, 2014, 04:00:48 PM
I'm not sure if Mr B knows what 'invested' means. His return is clearly linked to a 3000% increase in the amount of 'everything is great' and arguing with other posters.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on June 04, 2014, 04:13:06 PM
"Newtonian" by itself doesn't really mean anything.

You can make a newtonian system feel not-newtonian by tweaking the values and outputs. It may not feel newtonian to stop on a dime but if you have the right amount of thrust in the right direction that is newtonian physics.

If the game is just pointing a mouse and your ship flies towards the mouse in a standard predictable way it's not interesting, whether that is "newtonian" or not technically. The thing about steering a ship is that it's typically not done by pointing - the difference between "go here" and "turn left." It's like the difference between controlling Diablo on PC vs console - on PC if you want to move left you click to the left, on console you push the stick to the left.

When people think about "newtonian" flying they think about controlling the ship by applying forces, not about pointing to a spot on the screen and the ship automatically orienting. I don't like click-to-move for games where you control a character but it's even worse when you control a vehicle - to some degree a person navigating a space is click-to-move but that's just not how vehicles work.

I think that's the fundamental dissatisfaction with "chase the mouse."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on June 04, 2014, 05:08:49 PM
I still think caring about newtonian is dumb.  People claim they want newtonian physics because it's realistic (as people have stated here it's not exactly fun in its purest form) but honestly, I highly doubt that by the time we have reliable space ship technology where people can shoot the shit out of each other that anyone is going to manually aim anything.    In that fact (as much as people here probably hate to admit it) Eve is probably the most realistic indication of what real space combat is going to be like.

So if you are already sacrificing realizism you might as go for combat that is actually fun.  If that means no newtonian physics then fuck newtonian physics.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on June 04, 2014, 05:17:13 PM
Yea, we get to space with Star Wars or Star Trek style close-in dogfighting as a method, we deserve whatever curbstomp we get from the aliens who spacefight the right way :-)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on June 04, 2014, 05:47:02 PM
Actually, as far as I know "Newtonian = your ship has some inertia and you can disable assisted control and fly in one direction inertially while shooting sideways or backwards" and "Non-Newtonian = your ship handles as an airplane in atmosphere or a submarine in water."  My perfect Newtonian system was Independence War 2: Edge of Chaos, and it had assisted control that you could disable if you wanted to.  With assisted on = fly somewhat like an airplane (no banking to turn, though); with assisted off = fly like the space shuttle in space (whichever direction you're burning the main engines, that's the way you're accelerating).

In any case, I want Newtonian physics because I've had enough of EVE's submarines and SWTOR's airplanes.  But I don't want raw Newtonian, I want assisted control.  Just no banking in order to turn, please, is my only requirement.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on June 04, 2014, 06:22:01 PM
So, I've just finished another session of AC, that lasted about 55 minutes  :ye_gods:, during which I managed to arrive to Wave 7 (the one with the Elite Vanduul called "Priest"). Had a much more fun and interesting experience (although don't expect E:D , of course) flying with these settings:

"Relative mode" - on (ctrl-f...basically, it feels a lot less "follow the green dot and click")

Comstab - off

Mouse sensitivity at 2 or 7; of course this may vary depending on your mouse. I have a pretty standard logitech one, like those that come bundled with a keyboard.

While I also own a Hornet and a 300i, so far I've been flying only with an Aurora to get the feeling of everything, and it's really a flying bus :P


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on June 04, 2014, 07:03:40 PM
Rationalization engines engage, maximum thrust!

(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/11112/111121967/3812694-bth_joker_andherewego.gif)
(http://puu.sh/9fRH7/00189479ff.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on June 05, 2014, 01:24:02 AM
Obligatory "thank you" letter by Chris Roberts in relation to the Arena Commander release:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13925-Arena-Commander-V08-Thank-You

Plus, here's the May monthly report:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13918-Monthly-Report-May-2014

Another positive thing to report is performance: I was quite worried about my aging computer, especially in light of how much stutter I experienced in the Hangar module. Instead, I tried AC with the preset "low", "medium" and "high" settings (still have to try very high) and I only experienced some slight slowdown at high.

Specs: i7-920 2.66 GHz ; 6GB RAM, Geforce 560 GTX


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Setanta on June 05, 2014, 03:13:28 AM
Glad to hear that as I'm downloading AC tonight and hoping it will run on my 3yo rig. The hanger mode was barely playable due to stutter.

Probably due for a new comp anyway :)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 05, 2014, 07:34:52 AM
This (http://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/27btmb/psa_switch_to_relative_mode_for_kbm_for_a_less/) could help:

Quote
I was looking through the Keybindings today after installing AC, and found that Ctrl+F switches between Interactive and Relative flying modes.

Interactive mode is where the mouse aims the guns as well as turning the ship.

Relative mode is where the mouse only turns the ship, and the guns fire toward where the ship is facing. As far as I can tell, when the cursor is over an enemy, the guns with still Auto aim for you.

After switching to Relative in Vanduul Swarm, I found it was much easier to get kills because the ship was less "floaty" and handled more like I expected it to.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on June 05, 2014, 08:10:27 AM
Yep, for m+kb, that definitely helps; mentioned it a couple messages ago, along with disabling comstab (cycle through the various IFCS modes with ctrl-caps lock).

For joystick users, now there is a great guide to create a custom XML file in order to assign the various keys (comes with a template), while we wait for official support from CIG:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/139973/walkthrough-how-to-configure-joystick-throttle-pedals
------

I'm still toying with it, but I assigned almost all the buttons (but I'm still trying to understand if I can also assign modifiers) on my T-Flight Hotas; now, I have some more hours under my belt with the joystick, and I'm having way more fun; I'm getting better with maneuvers and everything else. I think there is indeed a deeper layer of complexity there, currently hidden by the lack of sensitivity/deadzone settings and the excessive flight assistance.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on June 05, 2014, 08:19:24 AM
So you're saying the 100s of internet neckbeards that spent 1000000$$$ on this game, before they got to see anything, over-reacted to a rushed alpha release of small portion of the game?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: calapine on June 05, 2014, 04:16:37 PM
Something I just found out myself, so it might be an Internet-first F13 premiere:

If you go to your '<Star Citizen>\Launcher\LauncherData' folder there is a single file with the extension '.settings'.

Easy to guess, it stores the configuration settings of the launcher. But it also holds a few option that are not accessible via the GUI. Specifically, change the option "rememberpassword":0 from 0 to 1. Same with "auto_login":0. And finally in the option "password":null, replace the null with your password started and closed by double qutation-marks. As in "password":"MyPasswordHere"

No more to entering the password and pressing the login button!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on June 05, 2014, 04:30:36 PM
Downside: You have 20+GB of Chris Roberts' Space Virus on your harddrive.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: calapine on June 05, 2014, 05:00:43 PM
Downside: You have 20+GB of Chris Roberts' Space Virus on your harddrive.

It doesn't copy itself so it's more a trojan that depends on social engineering and helpless patsies that click on every "pledge" pop up!  :grin:



NEW! - ORIGIN JUMPWORKS 9000 STARDESTROYER - CLICK HERE TO PLEDGE!!!!  (http://bit.ly/1xeV37c)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on June 05, 2014, 05:37:55 PM
It doesn't copy itself
At 20+ gbs it doesn't have to :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: calapine on June 05, 2014, 08:18:51 PM
Yep, for m+kb, that definitely helps; mentioned it a couple messages ago, along with disabling comstab (cycle through the various IFCS modes with ctrl-caps lock).

I'm still toying with it, but I assigned almost all the buttons (but I'm still trying to understand if I can also assign modifiers) on my T-Flight Hotas; now, I have some more hours under my belt with the joystick, and I'm having way more fun; I'm getting better with maneuvers and everything else. I think there is indeed a deeper layer of complexity there, currently hidden by the lack of sensitivity/deadzone settings and the excessive flight assistance.

Lucas, how much are you enjoying Joystick compared to KB/Mouse?

Pure mouse user now and while I sort of can control the first mode it still feels more like fighting my own ship rather than the enemy. Relative mode makes targeting easier, but having to constanly swipe the mouse to turn is rather tiresome. So overall the controlling issue is getting in the way of enjoying the laser pew pew.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: calapine on June 05, 2014, 08:41:48 PM
Oh, and something else: It seems there is a major change in the relationship between 'fixed' and 'gimbaled' guns, with the latter becoming the most numerous type.


(http://i.imgur.com/2d66gYH.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/ZqTlt8G.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on June 06, 2014, 02:11:41 AM
Like I said, I'm getting better with the joystick, and I definitely enjoy it a LOT more than m+kb, especially after I created my own custom profile for the T-Flight Hotas X. It is not E:D, yet (and prolly never be for a fundamental difference in the approach, like we discussed earlier), but there is more complexity than what it's immediately apparent. Now they BADLY need to add sensitivity and deadzone settings. Anyway, they acknowledged the current issues yesterday in a forum post so we'll see more tweaks.  

One of Chris Roberts' objectives with Arena Commander is trying to make it a so called "E-Sport" for the SC community, along with Racing (which I think will come only when the PU is released); they would like to implement spectator modes, replays, more cameras, etc. and with the multiplayer modes they're currently planning, it surely has potential to become something like that (although it will never top the Twitch ladder, of course :P), but currently, with the "control-agnostic" approach they're taking, there is still a loooong way to go to achieve that.

EDIT: Reached Wave 10 with the 300i, making progress  :drill:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Speedy Cerviche on June 06, 2014, 09:10:18 AM
Not that random people's opinions are worth that much but on the forusm there's a lot of crying because apparently having a HOTAS is gimping yourself and in fact people are asking Roberts to "nerf mouse" (sereiously, they are). So if you feel that a joystick makes you superior to K+M congratulations, you must be really good (no sarchasm intended).

The same people are always posting about that on the war thunder forum, asking the devs to nerf mouse because they insist on using  a joystick for a game which was clearly designed to be mouse-friendly for the vast non-sim crowd (basically, FPS players)  who will never buy a joystock. I don't know why these people even play warthunder, instead of a real sim like IL-2, yet there they are, a small minority of the hundreds of thousands of players, incessantly posting, asking the devs who purposedly designed an arcade-sim, to modify their game to conform to the standards of their neckbeardy hardcore-sim world.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on June 06, 2014, 09:57:37 AM
the biggest problem with this project (this is taking the giant step of presuming it is a competent project otherwise ofc) is the odd design process

i would have designed the gameplay fundamentals first then built ships around it. roberts is stuck crudely hammering together a gameplay concept around the ships he sold to rich nerds for millions of dollars. End gameplay will probably show it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on June 06, 2014, 12:42:35 PM
Why would I develop the laws of a system then design around that?

Next you'll be trying to tell me to learn a coding language before I start to write the operating system for the killer game console I designed. Fascist!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Setanta on June 06, 2014, 03:26:52 PM
Played it, liked it and am thankful for the kb/m control emphasis - I do have a joystick (M$oft Sidewinder) that I bought for Starsiege and Mechwarrior 3 - but I haven't used it since those games :D

Only problem with this release is that now I'm tempted to drop cash on Elite: Dangerous as it looks to be further along and doesn't require the heavy cash investment of SC (yet?)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 06, 2014, 03:37:46 PM
Be careful with Elite: Dangerous. It's great so far but it could be a trap as all the important things beside flying around and shooting are still missing and they might not have enough time or money to finish it in a decent timeframe if at all (see MechWarrior Online). My advice, as much as I love what's already there, is to wait until the price of beta (literally) drops down a bit more. Unless you want to pay strictly to support the project...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on June 06, 2014, 03:45:58 PM
Yeah you should totally buy Elite Dangerous ships to fund it further and make it a complete game.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Stormwaltz on June 06, 2014, 06:47:15 PM
While I'm primarily interested in exploration, I don't think my inner 14 year-old will let me fly around in a ship called the Freelancer DURRRRRRR (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13926-Introducing-The-Freelancer-Line-Up). -_-


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on June 06, 2014, 07:22:12 PM
While I'm primarily interested in exploration, I don't think my inner 14 year-old will let me fly around in a ship called the Freelancer DURRRRRRR (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13926-Introducing-The-Freelancer-Line-Up). -_-

The prices on those ships. Holy shit. I thought 45 bucks for the alpha, beta, and finished game was steep.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on June 06, 2014, 07:44:24 PM
Actually, as far as I know "Newtonian = your ship has some inertia and you can disable assisted control and fly in one direction inertially while shooting sideways or backwards" and "Non-Newtonian = your ship handles as an airplane in atmosphere or a submarine in water."  My perfect Newtonian system was Independence War 2: Edge of Chaos, and it had assisted control that you could disable if you wanted to.  With assisted on = fly somewhat like an airplane (no banking to turn, though); with assisted off = fly like the space shuttle in space (whichever direction you're burning the main engines, that's the way you're accelerating).

In any case, I want Newtonian physics because I've had enough of EVE's submarines and SWTOR's airplanes.  But I don't want raw Newtonian, I want assisted control.  Just no banking in order to turn, please, is my only requirement.

While I agree that I-War 2 was a damn good game (still is) in terms of a flight model it was far inferior to its predecessor which really had the feel of you throwing a huge hunk of metal around space. Core to it was the way that the game assumed that you had the more powerful maneuvering thrusters on the belly of the ship (which made G-Force better to handle for the crew) so you were constantly turning the ship to make minor course corrections, which once it clicked it made the ship a joy to fly. In I-war 2 it was pretty much turning the ship like a flat airplane to get anywhere. Doable but not as satisfying. You also had the ability to use your back turrets handled well.

You can get I-War on GOG and i HIGHLY recommend it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Setanta on June 06, 2014, 09:11:13 PM
While I'm primarily interested in exploration, I don't think my inner 14 year-old will let me fly around in a ship called the Freelancer DURRRRRRR (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13926-Introducing-The-Freelancer-Line-Up). -_-

The prices on those ships. Holy shit. I thought 45 bucks for the alpha, beta, and finished game was steep.

P2W in action?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Goreschach on June 06, 2014, 11:38:09 PM
Winning implies you can actually play.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 07, 2014, 04:50:49 AM
This video is great. Especially because it doesn't express any opinion, it just allows people to easily take a comparative look. I should crosspost it but I guess this thread has more people reading anyway.

Video comparison of Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous dogfighting. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY5x85F-DKM)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Miasma on June 07, 2014, 06:58:02 AM
Both game's laser sounds kind of suck but star citizen sounds like a cartoon or cheap 80's sci-fi movie.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: calapine on June 07, 2014, 07:13:36 AM
This video is great. Especially because it doesn't express any opinion, it just allows people to easily take a comparative look. I should crosspost it but I guess this thread has more people reading anyway.

Video comparison of Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous dogfighting. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY5x85F-DKM)
Have seen this before and I think it's (a bit) unfair. SC comes across as slower and less involving than it feels when actually playing. Not that I could say why that is though.

Elite on the other hand looks great. Didn't know anything about it until the video but definitely going to get it now


One of the devs made made some very good responses regarding the flight model. I am not sure I can summarize them properly, but he is (one of) the person responsible for the actual physics & with an understanding of the issues, so it's  an interesting (ie. content rich) read.

He also flat out states that he 'personally cannot play the game as it was released. We had to release it to get the ball rolling...'


Thread 1 - Reply 1 (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/2714175/#Comment_2714175)
Thread 1 - Reply 2 (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/2714475/#Comment_2714475)
Thread 1 - Reply 3 (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/2714634/#Comment_2714634)
Thread 1 - Reply 4 (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/2715030/#Comment_2715030)
Thread 2 - Reply 1 (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/2721296/#Comment_2721296)
Thread 2 - Reply 2 (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/2722695/#Comment_2722695)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on June 07, 2014, 09:07:02 AM
Quote
He also flat out states that he 'personally cannot play the game as it was released. We had to release it to get the ball rolling...'

good. that's an honest assessment.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on June 07, 2014, 09:20:01 AM
Winning implies you can actually play.
Not necessarily, Professor Falken :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 07, 2014, 09:32:27 AM
Quote from: John Pritchett, Star Citizen physics programmer
3) The current state of control is not what it will be. Over the past week, I have been refining the response to controller inputs to make the game easier to control without sacrificing realism. I personally cannot play the game as it was released. We had to release it to get the ball rolling, but I'm working on the fix to a lot of these issues as we speak. In fact, I should be working on that instead of reading and responding to this thread.

Honestly, I think this is important not just because it means that the game will get better (which is great, because I was going to sell my account if they weren't going to update the flight model), but because it proves the level of mass hypnosis the Star Citizen community is deep into at the moment. After almost two years (first "gameplay/tech demo" video of Star Citizen dogfight is from October 2012 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92rb-8mYHE0)) of working with the CryEngine all they managed to release is an offline arena with the whopping amount of two ships... and it pilots so shitty that even the man who's making the game can't pilot it, but everyone is out yelling how fantastic it is. How is it even possible to not be constructively disappointed?

This is not Falconeer shitting on the Star Citizen's forums. It's the man making the game saying it drives like ass. I hope the player base will get the memo now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on June 07, 2014, 10:47:55 AM
I hope the player base will get the memo now.
There are people, large numbers of people, that have so much money invested into this that there is no way they are going to be able to handle any criticism at all. I mean shit, people get so defensive about games they are interested in but don't even have money into yet and they will fucking cut you if you criticize their game. Large amounts of money invested just ups that type of fanaticism to 11.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hoax on June 07, 2014, 12:20:20 PM
I hope the player base will get the memo now.
There are people, large numbers of people, that have so much money invested into this that there is no way they are going to be able to handle any criticism at all. I mean shit, people get so defensive about games they are interested in but don't even have money into yet and they will fucking cut you if you criticize their game. Large amounts of money invested just ups that type of fanaticism to 11.

I found the founders/investors in Warframe and MWO to be insufferable. I tried to voice this when this thread was tiny and we were first seeing/hearing about the $100 space ships. I think that SC will have a community that is so toxic, so obnoxious and distorts the concept of "good feedback" so heavily that its a massive turn off for people who might consider buying it when an actual game comes out. These people are going to be just fucking awful to share virtual space with.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Stormwaltz on June 07, 2014, 05:10:45 PM
...star citizen sounds like a cartoon or cheap 80's sci-fi movie.

Cheap 1999 sci-fi movie (http://esotericfish.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/wing-commander-poster.jpg), you mean.  :oh_i_see:

Come on, someone had to post this.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on June 07, 2014, 05:49:32 PM
Heh. That movie killed careers.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on June 07, 2014, 06:16:16 PM
Heh. From the scuttlebut that came out of it they did all the preprodiction and special effects work, and then the Movie company pulled the plug on the money and told them to make a movie with what they had, so they half assed a new script. One thing that was layed at Roberts door however was his total refusal to use the puppets from the wing commander games, so then the Movie company yanked the money they had to half ass the Kilrathi as well.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Miasma on June 07, 2014, 06:24:58 PM
People who care about movie stuff from game people always point out that he also produced Lord of War, which was pretty good but that basically comes down to are you getting good Nicolas Cage or bad Nicolas Cage?  He got lucky and had good Nicolas Cage.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on June 07, 2014, 09:48:08 PM
Have seen this before and I think it's (a bit) unfair. SC comes across as slower and less involving than it feels when actually playing. Not that I could say why that is though. Elite on the other hand looks great. Didn't know anything about it until the video but definitely going to get it now

I think it's because:

1.  SC has some blur effects to represent g-forces, which is realistic I suppose, but stupid. 
2.  Elite fights seem to always be 3 (players?) vs. the target, so the fights are fast and "fun" because each target gets destroyed fast.

Wish both games would implement Doppler effect on the weapon sounds to represent overheating, rather than that annoying verbal message at the end.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: DraconianOne on June 08, 2014, 04:11:53 AM
People who care about movie stuff from game people always point out that he also produced Lord of War, which was pretty good but that basically comes down to are you getting good Nicolas Cage or bad Nicolas Cage?  He got lucky and had good Nicolas Cage.

No, it came down to the fact that it was written, directed and produced by Andrew Niccol. 

Giving credit to Roberts for how Lord of War turned out is like giving credit to anybody who pledged to SC for how it eventually turns out.  All he - or rather his company - did was shove money at the filmmakers, not be involved creatively. In fact, I bet he probably ended up with some of the credits on his resume mostly because of the deals his partner Christopher Eberts made - he was an experienced independent film producer who used to be a production VP at 20th C. Fox. Which is why Eberts was an Executive Producer on Lord of War while his business partner, Roberts, was just a producer.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: calapine on June 08, 2014, 01:07:34 PM
Talking about films, here is a new Freelancer clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO7RxsZpcKc)

It's very...country.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on June 08, 2014, 01:46:16 PM
Built MISC tough.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on June 08, 2014, 04:49:27 PM
This is not Falconeer shitting on the Star Citizen's forums. It's the man making the game saying it drives like ass. I hope the player base will get the memo now.

They won't. I mean, this is pretty cool for a super early alpha proof of concept style test, sure. If the game makers themselves fall for the kool-aid, all is lost. And that's pretty likely.

lol @ built misc tough


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Stormwaltz on June 08, 2014, 08:53:29 PM
It's very...country.

I was hopeful that meant they were trying a Firefly vibe, which would make sense for the tramp freighter.

But, no, Malakili's right. It's a Ford commercial.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on June 09, 2014, 09:03:14 AM
I thought that was pretty awesome. Regardless if this game works.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: DraconianOne on June 09, 2014, 02:34:15 PM
Talking about films, here is a new Freelancer clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO7RxsZpcKc)

It's very...country.

Is that Lance Henriksen doing the VO?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: calapine on June 09, 2014, 03:05:11 PM
Yes, it's him.

HACKETT OUT


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on June 12, 2014, 05:13:42 AM
Here's an Arena Commander presentation done by Roberts at the E3 Gamespot booth:

http://www.gamespot.com/videos/e3-2014-star-citizen-stage-demo/2300-6419567/

Combined with this interview with Associate Producer Travis Day (transcript from Reddit)...

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/145953/

....And with the tidbits offered yesterday by two community managers...

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/2787047/#Comment_2787047

...confirms they're basically working on tweaking and improving every aspect of AC, although, especially judging from the CR video, they're firm in their intention to follow a different path compared to Elite Dangerous when it comes to the flight model.

Anyway, a new patch should come this week; no custom keybindings, which should come in v1.0. They'll also open multiplayer for a few hundred backers, and start ramping up from there (my citizen number is #20971), although I prefer waiting for more tweaks to the flight model. And yeah, while it was already a known fact, Travis Day confirms that some of the features of AC won't be present in the "proper" dogfight, like the damage numbers and maybe the off-screen arrow pointing to the enemy.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on June 12, 2014, 12:12:53 PM
7GB patch available for download, but still an interlocutory one (no major changes to AC gameplay):

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link//13942-Star-Citizen-Patch-122


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on June 12, 2014, 12:13:44 PM
7GB patch that doesn't effect gameplay? What the fuck does it do?

Edit: I just read the patch, what the actual fuck?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on June 12, 2014, 12:15:43 PM
7GB patch that doesn't effect gameplay? What the fuck does it do?

Edit: I just read the patch, what the actual fuck?

Animations and sounds, as written in the notes, plus some "under the hood" texture adjustments/replacements, probably.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: calapine on June 12, 2014, 10:40:40 PM
The patch also (very slowly) introduces multi-player. 250 people have been invited and the first streams are up. Ramp up of numbers will supposedly begin next week.

Flight controls have been improved [or I am getting used to them]: Joystick feels less jerky, there is less oversteering and thus easier to aim.

Pew-pew wise I haven't gotten beyond wave 12 yet. *grumbles*

Edit: Patch also introduced some bugs. I have to delete the 'USER' directory after every game session or else it will crash on next launch. And there is some graphic corruption which can be fixed by switching the graphics quality back and forth once.

Alphafun!   :grin:

Edit2: Wave 13!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 14, 2014, 05:35:24 PM
What the hell, is this new? Basically, you can already subscribe to the "game" for 10$/month...

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/149-centurion-plan

New record? Pay a monthly fee for a game that will be eventually released in about two years? This is better than the Brad McQuaid shit. And then people wonder why atheists call Star Citizen a church?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on June 14, 2014, 06:35:59 PM
I bet their delivery rate is worse than the f13 "Nothing for Something" subscription plan (of which we still have 2 members, thanks guys!) (one's a staff member, lol)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maven on June 14, 2014, 06:45:47 PM
Beginning to covet game development as a tightly-guarded process kept away from the unwashed masses. The general public might be getting the first glimpse of how chaotic and uncertain the development process can be.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on June 14, 2014, 07:05:27 PM
It's their own damn fault. You can't design the modules first and then hope they all magically stick together later. And if that is your approach, you definitely shouldn't be inviting your backers into the day to day. If you don't get it, your audience certainly won't.

Unless of course you've developed a religious following  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: koro on June 15, 2014, 08:01:18 AM
Quote
Subscription revenues contribute to the Star Citizen project’s development by funding Wingman’s Hangar (Wednesdays at 9AM PST!) and Jump Point, the monthly digital magazine of Star Citizen. The revenues also fund the development and release of subscriber-exclusive perks and merchandise!

Quote
Jump Point is released once a month, usually the last Friday of each month. The Vault can be updated up to 2-3 times a month with abandoned concept art.

Abandoned concept art.

Garbage. You are paying for literal garbage. There are also apparently enough people who've dropped down for a year+ of the $20 a month sub that the "get your name on a mural" bit has already had all its name slots reserved.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on June 15, 2014, 08:06:24 AM
Quote
Subscription revenues contribute to the Star Citizen project’s development by funding Wingman’s Hangar (Wednesdays at 9AM PST!) and Jump Point, the monthly digital magazine of Star Citizen. The revenues also fund the development and release of subscriber-exclusive perks and merchandise!

Garbage. You are paying for literal garbage. There are also apparently enough people who've dropped down for a year+ of the $20 a month sub that the "get your name on a mural" bit has already had all its name slots reserved.

I don't understand why people would pay for that or thousands of dollars for ships as well. I thought $45 was reasonable,for a single player game and the multi-player variant, but approaching too much for a game that was unreleased. I just found out that I have an ex-coworker that has $4100 dollars spent on Star Citizen. That shit is a disease, pure and simple.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on June 15, 2014, 08:07:34 AM
Holy shit that's absurd. :ye_gods: I know what some of us have spent on Hex (myself included) was a bit much...but that's just nuts.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: calapine on June 15, 2014, 08:54:33 AM
Quote
Subscription revenues contribute to the Star Citizen project’s development by funding Wingman’s Hangar (Wednesdays at 9AM PST!) and Jump Point, the monthly digital magazine of Star Citizen. The revenues also fund the development and release of subscriber-exclusive perks and merchandise!

Garbage. You are paying for literal garbage. There are also apparently enough people who've dropped down for a year+ of the $20 a month sub that the "get your name on a mural" bit has already had all its name slots reserved.

I don't understand why people would pay for that or thousands of dollars for ships as well. I thought $45 was reasonable,for a single player game and the multi-player variant, but approaching too much for a game that was unreleased. I just found out that I have an ex-coworker that has $4100 dollars spent on Star Citizen. That shit is a disease, pure and simple.

Crazy people are crazy. Not sure if there is more to say about this than that, really.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on June 15, 2014, 10:06:59 AM
What's the reasoning behind investing thousands of dollars into this game? Are people hoping to make a profit by selling their ships after launch or is it just for "pay to win" ?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lantyssa on June 15, 2014, 10:25:30 AM
It's pay to dream.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on June 15, 2014, 10:33:36 AM
It's pay to dream.

You need to copyright that as quick as you can.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on June 15, 2014, 10:33:58 AM
You get... A SHIP!!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Simond on June 15, 2014, 01:53:36 PM
What's the reasoning behind investing thousands of dollars into this game? Are people hoping to make a profit by selling their ships after launch or is it just for "pay to win" ?
They saw the kickstarter for this before the Elite: Dangerous one, and then walked face-first into the Sunk Cost Fallacy.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 15, 2014, 02:34:17 PM
Interestingly enough Elite: Dangerous seems to be much more similar to EVE with real dogfighting than Star Citizen is aiming to be (maybe because EVE was actually inspired by Elite?). But Star Citizen has the shiny, and the brand recognition since we recently found out that while Elite was huge in Europe (including Iceland, heh), it wasn't popular at all in North America, unlike Wing Commander.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on June 15, 2014, 02:42:33 PM
People just believe that Star Citizen is the sandbox to end all sandboxes that they've been waiting for the last decade or more.  People are willing to pay thousands for that apparently.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on June 15, 2014, 03:52:58 PM
Beginning to covet game development as a tightly-guarded process kept away from the unwashed masses.

Game development or monetization model development?

The game part of Star Citizen is basically an afterthought.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on June 15, 2014, 09:23:19 PM
I love this game. It's like PT Barnum, the MMO.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hoax on June 15, 2014, 11:17:41 PM
This thread really should be in the MMO forum. This clusterfuck cult shit fits that place so much better than PC/console.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on June 16, 2014, 03:24:35 AM
Massively Multipayer


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 16, 2014, 03:35:31 AM
Categories here on f13 are so completely random. Elite: Dangerous is a MMO by scope, features and nature, Braben said so in an interview a few days ago. Same for Star Citizen, and still they are here while World of Tanks is there.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on June 16, 2014, 09:36:33 AM
Categories here aren't random at all. Where things are placed is dictated by the person who made the thread.

Besies, "MMO by scope" literally means nothing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Typhon on June 16, 2014, 09:42:03 AM
I think this is my favorite conversation on f13, and it's just been too damn long!   :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on June 16, 2014, 03:16:32 PM
This thread really should be in the MMO forum. This clusterfuck cult shit fits that place so much better than PC/console.

Correct me if I'm wrong but AFAIK the multiplayer isn't working yet at all.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on June 16, 2014, 03:32:40 PM
If multiplayer did work, could anything short of a Cray render more than 8 ships on screen at once anyway?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Miasma on June 16, 2014, 03:35:36 PM
They are adding a few hundred people at a time to the multiplayer client.  I doubt it works well, but yes, you can now collide your imaginary space ships into theirs.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 16, 2014, 04:23:56 PM
This girl is playing it multiplayer right now if you are curious.
Not sure about the player cap at the moment.


http://www.twitch.tv/nyaandere


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Nija on June 16, 2014, 05:03:30 PM
They are adding a few hundred people at a time to the multiplayer client.  I doubt it works well, but yes, you can now collide your imaginary space ships into theirs.

I'd be really surprised if they had collision working correctly.

Let me restate that.

I'd be surprised if they had accurate collision working correctly.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Miasma on June 16, 2014, 06:43:17 PM
Tried to patch for the first time in months.  I don't like their patcher because it downloads multiple patches one after another and doesn't bother to tell you what the total download will be.  After I eventually download everything I get an error message about a metafile which stops me from playing.  I click the repair button and it does some things for a while then I notice it is downloading another twelve gigs for some reason...  I stop it.  Restart the patcher and now it thinks all is well and lets me press launch.  It opens a window, that isn't full screen, and just hangs with a black screen.  Happens a few times in a row.  I click the 'support' link in the launcher, this brings me to a web page complaining that I don't have the permissions to view it.  I go to their site myself to see if there is a way to fix this problem and see similar reports from about ten days ago with no resolution or acknowledgement.

Their website crashed firefox twice.

I click repair and it again wants to download twelve gigs, essentially the whole game at this point.  I just uninstall.  I'll try again in a few more months and may as well do a fresh install.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 17, 2014, 12:07:48 AM


Flight Model and Input Controls (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13951-Flight-Model-And-Input-Controls)



What the hell, is this new?

Not new. Not at all. Its more or less a chronicle of the development process. Parts are released on the website over time too.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 17, 2014, 12:16:00 AM
I'm not sure if Mr B knows what 'invested' means. His return is clearly linked to a 3000% increase in the amount of 'everything is great' and arguing with other posters.

I Haven't Invested in anything. I Pledged to get a game I have always wanted in development.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on June 17, 2014, 02:24:42 AM
(http://puu.sh/9x2M9/69a28c6fa6.png)

This man is a shareholder too.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on June 17, 2014, 06:49:17 AM
If you want to know more about the how's and why's of the current flight model implementation in Arena Commander, you can watch the beginning of yesterday's weekly "10 for the Chairman" segment, from about the 3:10 mark 'til the 16:00 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpHGEtOXFvE

In addition, here's the long post Chris Roberts mentions, "Flight Model and Input Controls":

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13951-Flight-Model-And-Input-Controls

EDIT: sorry, that's the post Bloodworth already linked.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maven on June 17, 2014, 08:26:18 AM
This man is a shareholder too.

Timmy's First Game Design Feedback. Put that one on the fridge.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: calapine on June 17, 2014, 09:16:45 AM
Kerbal Space Progam's Scott Manely explains the physics of Star Citzen's and Elite Dangerous's space fighter flight models by the way of Kerbal Space Progam (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYPxJtra1ws)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on June 17, 2014, 03:18:18 PM
This man is a shareholder too.

This is they issue with paying money for hopes and dreams. One guy dreams about a space sim where they have to manually control each thruster, another guy dreams a space shooter that's point and click, and they both pay large sums of money to see that dream realized.

When the game launches in 2021 a lot of people are going to feel betrayed.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on June 17, 2014, 07:03:29 PM
on the other hand...
(http://asset-c.soup.io/asset/7467/5121_ca3c.jpeg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: PalmTrees on June 17, 2014, 11:39:46 PM
That chair doesn't have enough back support. I could never get comfortable.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on June 18, 2014, 12:17:21 AM
I'm not sure if Mr B knows what 'invested' means. His return is clearly linked to a 3000% increase in the amount of 'everything is great' and arguing with other posters.

I Haven't Invested in anything. I Pledged to get the broad outline and unrealistic promises of a game I have always wanted in development.

No, you are invested, not you have invested. Which you have clearly illustrated.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MisterNoisy on June 18, 2014, 12:12:10 PM
So if they went to all this effort to 'accurately simulate spaceflight physics', why do their energy weapons seemingly have travel times to target more appropriate to a slingshot?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Kitsune on June 18, 2014, 12:37:18 PM
Babylon 5 got around it by saying the human ships were using plasma weaponry instead of lasers.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on June 18, 2014, 03:50:39 PM
New patch is out (12.3...682MB) :

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13955-Arena-Commander-Patch-123

First 20,000 backers are now invited in the multiplayer mode (for the record, I'm Citizen #20970; oh well :P)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Stormwaltz on June 18, 2014, 05:23:54 PM
Babylon 5 got around it by saying the human ships were using plasma weaponry instead of lasers.

Plasma weapons don't work at all. (http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacegunexotic.php#id--Plasma_Weapons) /nerd


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Thrawn on June 18, 2014, 05:51:04 PM
New patch is out (12.3...682MB) :

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13955-Arena-Commander-Patch-123

First 20,000 backers are now invited in the multiplayer mode (for the record, I'm Citizen #20970; oh well :P)

Yay, I got an invite.  I'll be sure to...probably ignore it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on June 18, 2014, 06:37:06 PM
Over/under on the beginning of the lawsuits for "not delivering promised content/your vision of perfection is not my vision that I forked over $10000 for/You lied to me/waaaa? "  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MisterNoisy on June 18, 2014, 06:53:15 PM
Over/under on the beginning of the lawsuits for "not delivering promised content/your vision of perfection is not my vision that I forked over $10000 for/You lied to me/waaaa? "  :why_so_serious:

That's going to be the only entertainment this product provides, so no way I'm taking that bet.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 19, 2014, 12:51:16 AM
Let's be honest about things for a minute!

There are two things I consider surprising:

1) That at the moment the dogfighting module is boring as hell, and not just because you play against the AI. The flight model is overly simplihistic and maneuvering, aiming and killing ships is slightly more entertaining than playing a flash browser game.

2) That very few seem to care, twitch streams abound, and everyone can't wait to get into multiplayer to play this snoozefest version.


Personally, I can't wait for the snoozefest version to become a game, so I can find the fun too since I paid for it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on June 19, 2014, 06:53:19 AM
I have access to this, but haven't bothered to download it yet. I'm waiting for Falc to say it's fun.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 19, 2014, 06:55:22 AM
HAHAHA! When -and if- I'll ever say it's fun it'll probably be when everyone agrees it used to be fun but it isn't anymore. I have fucked up tastes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: UnSub on June 20, 2014, 09:31:39 PM
I really do appreciate that after years of MMO development disasters, the gaming industry learned nothing and has actually gone backwards by getting players to pay up first for a title that is due out sometime in the future (well, maybe due out, if the company doesn't collapse / implode first).

And yet it has happened, because indie - publisher + nostalgia.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 21, 2014, 02:21:16 AM
New ship up for sale! And this time it's an alien one! Woohoo! Also, you can't use it in the beta for now, and it's 150$ but who in their right mind wouldn't buy one right away?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/440-xian-khartu-al


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maledict on June 21, 2014, 04:51:29 AM
At this stage I honestly don't understand what I'm seeing.

If this all ends up with people drinking poison from a punch bowl to go meet a comet I wouldn't be surprised. The entire thing just seems *insane* - pledge thousands of dollars for something that won't exist for 4 years, that's massively behind schedule already, and then spend more money to buy ships you can't play for a year!





Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on June 21, 2014, 06:03:55 AM
It's worse than that.  Even if the game fully materializes and is massively fun you are paying hundreds of dollars for ships they have maintained you can get free in game


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hoax on June 21, 2014, 09:42:33 AM
The tension that will create is going to be insane.

All of the cultists are going to be demanding that ships by harder to come by, more expensive to maintain, that not having founder insurance really punishes the "leechers" etc. its almost inevitable that some if not all ships will be made much much more expensive during the course of beta testing to placate the hardcore who are all already $300+ invested.

If and this is a huge if, there ever is an actual game finished.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on June 21, 2014, 11:07:47 AM
New ship up for sale! And this time it's an alien one! Woohoo! Also, you can't use it in the beta for now, and it's 150$ but who in their right mind wouldn't buy one right away?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/440-xian-khartu-al
Wait, why can't you use it? Did they advance their business model to selling just space ship concept art now, instead of 3d meshes? :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on June 21, 2014, 11:09:19 AM
I'm getting to the point where I want to ban all Star Citizen talk from f13 and nuke threads containing it from orbit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 21, 2014, 11:14:26 AM
New ship up for sale! And this time it's an alien one! Woohoo! Also, you can't use it in the beta for now, and it's 150$ but who in their right mind wouldn't buy one right away?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/store/440-xian-khartu-al
Wait, why can't you use it? Did they advance their business model to selling just space ship concept art now, instead of 3d meshes? :awesome_for_real:

Because no matter what ships you pre-purchased, in the "Arena Commander" (all we cna test of Star Citizen at the moment) you can only use the two starting ones. All the other ones were ready for trailers and ads months ago, but not for testing yet.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on June 21, 2014, 11:51:53 AM
That's too funny. I guess as long as they have working chat channels limiting the available activity to spinning the ship in the hangar brings them close enough to what you'll typically get from the other spaceship mmo jesus.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on June 21, 2014, 12:17:15 PM
I'm getting to the point where I want to ban all Star Citizen talk from f13 and nuke threads containing it from orbit.

That would be a shame since no matter how (awfully) it turns out it will be something truly unique  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on June 21, 2014, 12:31:38 PM
My issue is with Chris Roberts having his gospel spread, even accidentally. He's a villain of the highest order in gaming and should be treated as such.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 21, 2014, 01:21:51 PM
He's a villain of the highest order in gaming and should be treated as such.

I agree completely, but he won't go away by not talking about it on f13. We are constantly exposing him for what he is, and that's why we need this one thread.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on June 21, 2014, 01:26:08 PM
His gospel is spreading but it's not f13 that's doing it.  I'm pretty sure he's distributing drugs or something cause the graphs on the website show them taking in $1.2million just last week, and this week is at about $800k.

I mean, do you understand how many businesses would kill to have that much revenue without having to actually release anything?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Miasma on June 21, 2014, 01:42:34 PM
Space alien bike in action! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWPrWWGxCvs)

Picture of a couple loving dude bros out for a spin (cockpit am i right):

(https://i.imgur.com/qiNLE0H.jpg)


I'm getting to the point where I want to ban all Star Citizen talk from f13 and nuke threads containing it from orbit.
How are people supposed to learn from others' mistakes without threads like this?  This is one of the best threads on the forum.  I'm always sure to look at all the picture threads, useless conversation and then this.  It's amazing.

Here, more rage inducing (remember that the day's total seems to be cut off around midnight gmt so Saturday's tally will be larger and I will post that too):
(http://i.imgur.com/KPFu1Xi.png)
I guess I own one of these ships because I got drunk in November and thought it would be rare.  Mine has lifetime insurance!!!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: UnSub on June 21, 2014, 07:33:36 PM
I'm getting to the point where I want to ban all Star Citizen talk from f13 and nuke threads containing it from orbit.

Really, I think it's best that all Star Citizen talk is concentrated in one thread titled: "Star Citizen: I Told You So".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on June 22, 2014, 03:16:52 AM
So Star Citizen is essentially a Ponzi scheme, right?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 22, 2014, 03:20:46 AM
That has been explained, detailed and demonstrated about 38 pages of this thread ago.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on June 22, 2014, 10:24:41 AM
Wait, is it just me, or does the cockpit of that ship up there look like the invention Mr. Garrison created on South Park because of how the airlines fuck you?

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1739972/web-images/garrison.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Chimpy on June 22, 2014, 10:28:03 AM
I thought that was a stab at the Segway?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on June 22, 2014, 10:29:43 AM
I think it was, but the customers who used it also said "But at least it isn't the airlines."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on June 22, 2014, 06:30:16 PM
And they used that line twice in the episode afair


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on June 22, 2014, 07:38:33 PM
I thought that was a stab at the Segway?

It's both. One thing South Park does well is layer the joke.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on June 23, 2014, 10:45:34 AM
Wait, is it just me, or does the cockpit of that ship up there look like the invention Mr. Garrison created on South Park because of how the airlines fuck you?
Given the price (and the game overall) it seems apt.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 24, 2014, 12:56:57 AM
47M reached.

The new stretch goals are exciting!


At 48M we'll get a new commercial! (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals)

Quote
48M stretch goal: Retaliator Commercial – It was a close race but The Retaliator pulled ahead. The Avenger was a close second. The symbol of the United Empire of Earth’s power is the next ship to receive a slick commercial. Aegis Dynamics is in dire need of good publicity since the end of the of the Messer era. We currently have the Cutlass and the Constellation commercials in production and now the Retaliator will be added to that list.​



And at 49M they will develop an alien bonsai plant for that you can purchase for your hangar! (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13971-Letter-From-The-Chairman-47-Million)

Quote
49M stretch goal: Xi’An Space Plant – Similar to a bonsai tree, the Centennial Bloom is a very famous Xi’An plant indigenous to Eealus III that blossoms for one night every one hundred years. They sell the plants in sealed terrariums to traders. Ever since their introduction to the UEE, Humanity has been fascinated by these beautiful plants and the wait for them to bloom.

All praise Jesus Chris!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Stormwaltz on June 24, 2014, 01:37:06 AM
They have to be trolling at this point.

Don't they?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on June 24, 2014, 01:40:45 AM
They have to be trolling at this point.

Don't they?

Quote
Speaking of stretch goals, last time around we put their future up to a vote. 54% of Citizens voted that we should continue to offer goals, and we’re going to honor that choice. As I said last time, every dollar supports Star Citizen’s persistent universe… but I’m not comfortable promising additional features with each million unless they’re truly additive.

You asked for dis.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maledict on June 24, 2014, 01:51:42 AM
After spending time over the last few days reading the entire thread, I think my favourite part was the "what type of scam is it?" section.

Is it a pyramid scheme? Nope, cause only Chris Roberts gets rich!

Is it a ponzi scheme? Nope, because in ponzi schemes *some* investors get their money back.

In the end it was decided that the best fit is the old "Sell the Brookyln bridge to gullible people scame".

I do love the classics!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 24, 2014, 02:25:45 AM
I see it much more like the Osho bullshit. That's worth a lot more money.

(Osho, depicted with one of his 50 Rolls Royces)
(http://www.marcovuyet.com/osho13.jpg)


I am waiting for him and his minions to begin poisoning the saldads of local politicians' who oppose to his empire's expansion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_Rajneeshee_bioterror_attack) any minute now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on June 24, 2014, 05:17:01 AM
This could be the first time a crowd-funding thing hits a threshold that makes class-action lawyers get involved.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hutch on June 24, 2014, 07:32:00 AM
47M reached.


47 what? 47 MILLION? DOLLARS?

If this game isn't Pack Raptor Pirate Ninja Laser Jesus, fuck the class action lawyers. Someone should call the police.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Nebu on June 24, 2014, 07:53:31 AM
47 what? 47 MILLION? DOLLARS?

If this game isn't Pack Raptor Pirate Ninja Laser Jesus, fuck the class action lawyers. Someone should call the police.

Considering the mediocre games that released with > $100M budgets, this thing just needs to be playable.  His biggest enemy is over-promising on features.   


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Typhon on June 24, 2014, 11:31:05 AM
Given that the $49M goal is a model of a plant that doesn't even have to bloom until the game has been live for 100 years I think he's gotten control of the over-promising.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on June 25, 2014, 10:51:54 AM
Quote
49M stretch goal: Xi’An Space Plant – Similar to a bonsai tree, the Centennial Bloom is a very famous Xi’An plant indigenous to Eealus III that blossoms for one night every one hundred years. They sell the plants in sealed terrariums to traders. Ever since their introduction to the UEE, Humanity has been fascinated by these beautiful plants and the wait for them to bloom.

I do love a good meta, and this one is deliciously awesome.  Brooklyn Bridge, indeed.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on June 25, 2014, 11:06:56 AM
He's definitely PT Barnum at this point. There's no doubts left.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on June 25, 2014, 11:12:08 AM
Fuck this guy.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MisterNoisy on June 25, 2014, 04:30:23 PM
Quote
Speaking of stretch goals, last time around we put their future up to a vote. 54% of Citizens voted that we should continue to offer goals, and we’re going to honor that choice. As I said last time, every dollar supports Star Citizen’s persistent universe… but I’m not comfortable promising additional features with each million unless they’re truly additive.

You asked for dis.  :why_so_serious:

Must be nice to just drop a nice big shit into a blog and get money for it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on June 25, 2014, 08:43:08 PM
Quote
Speaking of stretch goals, last time around we put their future up to a vote. 54% of Citizens voted that we should continue to offer goals, and we’re going to honor that choice. As I said last time, every dollar supports Star Citizen’s persistent universe… but I’m not comfortable promising additional features with each million unless they’re truly additive.

You asked for dis.  :why_so_serious:

Must be nice to just drop a nice big shit into a blog and get money for it.

I'm surprised it's only 54% for continuing to stretch the goals. Does that mean that 46% of "citizens" feel that it's already so absurd that they should stop adding features?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on June 25, 2014, 08:52:27 PM
46% of them donated the 46Million.
The other 54% haven't.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pezzle on June 26, 2014, 04:43:51 AM
A decorative item in a hanger somewhere qualifies as truly additive?  To what?  Their wallets?  What the fuck?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ingmar on June 26, 2014, 10:00:44 AM
No, it's not a feature. What he's saying, basically, is they're comfortable adding cosmetics and new ships and shit like that for future stretch goals, but they're basically out of ideas for gameplay features.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on June 26, 2014, 10:28:12 AM
Are space herpes in the game?  That can be a stretch goal.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rasix on June 26, 2014, 10:31:17 AM
That would be a new system, so no.  Would you settle for a space ficus instead?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on June 26, 2014, 10:32:39 AM
I think everyone is settling for a space ficus.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Stormwaltz on June 26, 2014, 10:47:13 AM
A more reasonable stretch goal would be, "another million pays for X more hires in the Y department for the next year, to finish what we've already promised more quickly."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on June 26, 2014, 10:51:02 AM
So what's the over under on the space ficus just being a random model from their existing background objects library?



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on June 26, 2014, 11:21:17 AM
A more reasonable stretch goal would be, "another million pays for X more hires in the Y department for the next year, to finish what we've already promised more quickly."
Why would they want to end this gravy train of "promise the moon, deliver fuckall"?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: brellium on June 26, 2014, 02:42:54 PM
So what's the over under on the space ficus just being a random model from their existing background objects library?


For a million dollars it's worth it to have some jr coder spend a day creating some thing new.

Now, that doesn't mean it wont be some random ficus with a different texture map.

50/50.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on June 26, 2014, 07:40:12 PM
Maybe they can have better office cantina as stretch goal.  :why_so_serious:
It's sad they had to waste time having lunch outside of the office...instead of working on their game. :(


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on June 26, 2014, 08:11:44 PM
Maybe they can have better office cantina as stretch goal.  :why_so_serious:
It's sad they had to waste time having lunch outside of the office...instead of working on their game. :(

The one time I bothered to look at the forums, somebody had made a thread seriously suggesting that one of the stretch goals should be a week of vacation for the dev team.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 04, 2014, 04:36:10 PM
New lovely video. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qM5L2ijUe8)

EDIT: In other news, they opened the multiplayer to an additional 60k backers, including myself. What can I say? I can't find any kind of fun yet, but it's "pre-alpha" so it's probably working as intended.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on July 08, 2014, 09:41:06 PM
leaked ending to star citizen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex5jBQtS13w


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 08, 2014, 11:39:49 PM
Inclusion of Anita Sarkeesian was pro.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on July 10, 2014, 12:53:30 AM
Is that line "...and so he left, with nothing but his humanity" a quote from something?  Really bugging me, I can't recall where I've heard it before.  Google isn't helping.



Also, LOL.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Arinon on July 10, 2014, 04:13:25 AM
When you beat Risk of Rain with the Commando class that's what it says.  Might be for someone else as well though.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on August 04, 2014, 04:16:31 AM
Ars Technica has a huge article on Star Citizen up on its page. It doesn't tell you anything new however just that people are still working on it and that everything will be great once they are finished. Even though the writer made several visits to RSI he wasn't able to get Chris Roberts for an interview and due to the lack of actual new info he spends half the text writing about the history of space sims like Wing Commader and co.

Backers and fans of the game are already talking about just how grea the game will be once it ships though


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on August 04, 2014, 04:26:43 AM
I read that last line as "once it slips"  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on August 04, 2014, 04:37:45 AM
Funny enough, I am pretty sure that the growing buzz around Elite Dangerous, and the fact that Elite is delivering, and it is delivering NOW, will delay Star Citizen's release even more. Late 2016 is my guess. Not that it matters, better late then shitty, but I just checked out of curiosity and turns out the Kickstarter was funded on November 2012, and release was (then) planned for November 2014. Yeah, right.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: UnSub on August 07, 2014, 08:26:54 PM
I keep reading articles that basically say, "With all the money SC is getting, they can afford to hire all the people they need to deliver a much bigger game on a much wider scope than they initially said!".

It's going to be Star Wars: The Old Republic all over again. Except this time the customers paid up front.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on August 08, 2014, 05:49:02 AM
I keep reading articles that basically say, "With all the money SC is getting, they can afford to hire all the people they need to deliver a much bigger game on a much wider scope than they initially said!".

It's going to be Star Wars: The Old Republic all over again. Except this time the customers paid up front.

I totally disagree. SWTOR delivered a playable, functional product. It wasn't what they expected, but it's not a bad game by any stretch of the imagination. This is going to be a total clusterfuck of epic proportions where they may deliver on 15% of the shit they promised before Curt Schilling this thing into the ground.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on August 08, 2014, 06:54:37 AM
I totally disagree. SWTOR delivered a playable, functional product. It wasn't what they expected, but it's not a bad game by any stretch of the imagination. This is going to be a total clusterfuck of epic proportions where they may deliver on 15% of the shit they promised before Curt Schilling this thing into the ground.
Well damn, I kind of agree with you for once. Glad I only spent like 45 dollars on this life lesson instead of the thousands that some people have forked out. I will just have to play elite enough to make up for it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on August 08, 2014, 07:21:01 AM
Well damn, I kind of agree with you for once.

HIGH FIVE!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hoax on August 08, 2014, 08:09:05 AM
I'd agree but SWTOR was an utter piece of shit game. It was by far the worst multiplayer experience in a MMO in a long time and couldn't be a solid single player game because other players are always running in ruining quests you are doing. That game is dogshit and if it wasn't Star Wars nobody would have played it and nobody would pretend it had redeeming features.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on August 08, 2014, 11:21:34 AM
I'd agree but SWTOR was an utter piece of shit game. It was by far the worst multiplayer experience in a MMO in a long time and couldn't be a solid single player game because other players are always running in ruining quests you are doing. That game is dogshit and if it wasn't Star Wars nobody would have played it and nobody would pretend it had redeeming features.

Well for one thing, the worst recent multiplayer experience in an MMO is The Elder Scrolls Online, and that's fairly recent. As to the utter piece of shit part, I found it to be well-voiced, well written for many of the stories, and the gameplay mechanics are essentially the same as WoW for PvE. You may not like it, but it's not WAR or APB. There's a functional game there that still draws people.

I question if this will be even a real game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on August 08, 2014, 11:30:27 AM
SWTOR was an ok game at release with a lot of issues. SWTOR today is a pretty good game and going strong.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on August 08, 2014, 11:34:47 AM
That's a good assessment. I would also add that the major detractor of SWTOR now is how much focus there is on the cartel shop, when the voiced action stuff and story lines are never going to be done again. Even if that is one of the major draws to the game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maven on August 09, 2014, 02:04:16 AM
I don't want to encourage a further derail, but SWTOR has impressed me with certain features and design decisions that I'm surprised other games haven't ruthlessly copied. (I'm thinking mainly of that core Bioware design element, Companions.)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on August 09, 2014, 02:41:12 AM
In the meantime, Star Citizen has released.. Capture The Flag  :why_so_serious:
Yes, the game about stellar citizenship, the ultimate space sandbox, just released a new mode for their multiplayer arena where you can still only pilot just two ships, regardless of which ones you dumped real hundreds of dollars into.

Also, if you are into that money dumping thing, here's an addition to the real money store where you can buy weapons (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/voyager-direct/weapons) without any remote clue about what they do and how good or bad they are since they are not even in the game yet. To give you a frame of reference, prices range from 4 to 16 USD as the fake SC currency is nothing but that US $ multiplied by 1000. Interestingly enough, in line with Roberts megalomania, if you try to buy anything the transaction won't be in dollars, it will be in UEC (United Earth Credits). That's fucked up, and confusing, and almost scammy since it really makes you believe you are not paying with real money until it's too late.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on August 09, 2014, 06:37:24 AM
I hear they have a bridge for sale.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on August 09, 2014, 10:55:41 AM
Interestingly enough David Braben seems to catch more flak from the press and from the gaming community. Just yesterday I heard a few industry veterans complain on a podcast about people like Braben or Brian Fargo 'ruining kickstarter' and abusing the enthusiasm and naïveté of their fans. They also complained that it was borderline fraudulent that the 'largest independent publisher' (Frontier Development) uses Kickstarter even though Braben could finance the game in a more traditional sense. Or that Fargo who apparently is connected to the Fargo of Wells Fargo fame kickstarts Wasteland 2 even though he could just ask a cousin for money or so.

Interestingly enough I never see the name Chris Roberts in those op eds and articles. So while the people that actually have close to finished games and seem to actually deliver - or have in case of Broken Age - get flak for 'abusing crowd funding'  while the guy running what most closely resembles an actual scam doesn't.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Simond on August 09, 2014, 11:33:07 AM
One could argue that they're pointing fingers because Braben and Fargo are actually going to release games.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on August 09, 2014, 11:37:54 AM
Hehe. The people that wrote those articles and blogs are probably into star citizen for a couple of grand and desperately need to convince themselves that they backed the right horse. So they try to make the other guys look bad.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on August 09, 2014, 11:44:08 AM
Hehe. The people that wrote those articles and blogs are probably into star citizen for a couple of grand and desperately need to convince themselves that they backed the right horse. So they try to make the other guys look bad.

The amount of cognitive dissonance on this project could fill the Grand Canyon.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on August 09, 2014, 11:51:11 AM
Remember how 38 Studios felt early on? Yeah, this is beginning to feel like that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on August 09, 2014, 12:28:30 PM
Hahahahaha, this is way worse than 38 Studios.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Miasma on August 09, 2014, 12:39:02 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/4oG45s4.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on August 09, 2014, 12:45:08 PM
Approaching an average of $100 paid per user.  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on August 09, 2014, 08:29:54 PM
Shit, they should register as a religion.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on August 10, 2014, 01:30:30 AM
Perhaps a system of tithing. 5% of your income and you will get THESE GREAT IN GAME BENEFITS.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: UnSub on August 10, 2014, 05:04:40 AM
I keep reading articles that basically say, "With all the money SC is getting, they can afford to hire all the people they need to deliver a much bigger game on a much wider scope than they initially said!".

It's going to be Star Wars: The Old Republic all over again. Except this time the customers paid up front.

I totally disagree. SWTOR delivered a playable, functional product. It wasn't what they expected, but it's not a bad game by any stretch of the imagination. This is going to be a total clusterfuck of epic proportions where they may deliver on 15% of the shit they promised before Curt Schilling this thing into the ground.

Didn't expect that to cause a derail.  :grin:

Anyway, what I meant in more depth was that SWOR was a title with a huge budget and lots of industry talent, plus an active fanbase who would advocate at any opportunity that lots of dollars + experienced developers + the ability to hire whoever they wanted to meet their project scope + a popular sci-fi IP would absolutely guarantee that the game would be fantastic and deliver on all promises.

It wasn't true then and I don't hold it to be true here. Especially because SC is promising a more complex game than SWOR did.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maven on August 10, 2014, 04:54:09 PM
They're making more money off the hype and the hopes and dreams of its player base than the actual product will ever deliver. I wonder how many jaded gamers this will create.

Hopefully nobody else follows this pre-order strategy!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: kildorn on August 10, 2014, 04:58:53 PM
It is kind of funny that with absolutely stupid levels of funding they still seem to be trailing Elite pretty hard in "usable product" measurements.

I have high hopes for Star Citizen, but I have no intention of giving them any money given the current pricing and monetization model. The ship pricing is simply absurd.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Simond on August 11, 2014, 11:39:46 AM
Why is it funny? Freelancer was just a dumbed-down version of Elite in the first place.  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on August 15, 2014, 03:28:21 PM
I haven't watched the Gamescom conference, but anyway, here's the new stuff they unveiled:

-Hangars getting a facelift (includes a more detailed look at the so called "asteroid hangar", which is yet to be released):
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14084-New-Hangar-Teaser

- Racing (its in-fiction implementation is called "Murray Cup) will be included in Arena Commander v. 0.9. Teaser video:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14083-Racing-Will-Be-Available-In-Version-09

- FPS module: very brief teaser. It will be fully unveiled at PAX Australia:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14085-FPS-Teaser

- Finally, here's the commercial for the Constellation, one of the most recognizable and mentioned SC ships, and its variants:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14080-The-2945-RSI-Constellation-Lineup


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Miasma on August 15, 2014, 03:59:42 PM
Holy crap, this weekend's 'donations' are going to be insane.  Every single diehard supporter has a constellation and they will all buy upgrades, many will buy extra ships to apply different upgrades.  This is the expensive 'do everything' ship so a lot of people who don't own one will buy.  And they put out an ad for it.  Oh wow.

If this is a ponzi scheme we will know buy the end of the week because this would be the coup de grace.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on August 15, 2014, 04:28:27 PM
If this is a ponzi scheme we will know by the end of the week because this would be the coup de grace.

Uh, we already know.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on August 15, 2014, 04:36:38 PM
If this is a ponzi scheme we will know by the end of the week because this would be the coup de grace.

Uh, we already know.

Yeah see page 21 back in November when we called it a Ponzi scheme.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: WayAbvPar on August 15, 2014, 04:48:26 PM
If this is a ponzi scheme we will know by the end of the week because this would be the coup de grace.

Uh, we already know.

This.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Miasma on August 15, 2014, 07:05:52 PM
No no no, all lies.  There has been a constant argument over whether this is a ponzi scheme or a pyramid scheme.  It is important to set the record straight.  I am firmly in the ponzi camp.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on August 15, 2014, 08:00:13 PM
It's not a pyramid scheme. It's not structured as one. It's a ponzi scheme.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on August 15, 2014, 09:30:17 PM
I think it's a religious cult and will soon file for a tax exemption status (and as a religion noone will complain when their version of the day of rapture is mysteriously delayed due to some mistake in calculating the divine date).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on August 16, 2014, 01:33:23 AM
Wasn't the consensus that it is neither because for it to be a pyramid scheme or a Ponzi scheme at least a few early backers would need to profit not just Chris Roberts himself?

50 million dollars plus whatever he could get from interested publishers and his own money (jk, not likely), that's a AAA budget. This is either a 'let me sell you the possibility of you owning a virtual bridge in space in a few months' type of scam or the biggest clusterfuck since Outpost.

Yet he still gets press from all kinds of mainstream and gamer media as part of their gamescom coverage.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on August 16, 2014, 06:22:45 AM
They broke $50m raised, averaging ~$96 per donator so far.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Miasma on August 16, 2014, 09:48:23 AM
The weekend of the constellation begins.

(http://i.imgur.com/6hYcxl7.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on August 16, 2014, 12:27:43 PM
(http://opendoordesign.edublogs.org/files/2008/01/posteredition.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on August 16, 2014, 01:48:45 PM
The weekend of the constellation begins.

(http://i.imgur.com/6hYcxl7.png)
I must be reading that graph wrong. Because it seems like over 400k collected in one day, but at this point that'd be the Old Gods level insane.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Miasma on August 16, 2014, 01:56:01 PM
That's one day, half of which news of the constellation hadn't been known yet.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Comstar on August 16, 2014, 07:28:15 PM
$400,000 in a DAY after a single crappy Promethus style trailer that shows nothing of the game and isn't even a good cut scene?!!

I want to the read the inside story of the company once it goes bust.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on August 16, 2014, 08:29:41 PM
It'll never go bust. It'll just be Chris Roberts in a room after he fires everybody masturbating onto a giant pile of plastic 3d printed spaceships in a pool of donor's tears.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on August 16, 2014, 08:43:31 PM
It'll never go bust. It'll just be Chris Roberts in a room after he fires everybody masturbating onto a giant pile of plastic 3d printed spaceships in a pool of donor's tears money.
FIFY


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on August 16, 2014, 08:48:22 PM
It'll never go bust. It'll just be Chris Roberts in a room after he fires everybody masturbating onto a giant pile of plastic 3d printed spaceships in a pool of donor's tears money.
FIFY
No you didn't! You know that shitbag has converted them into motherfucking bitcoins!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Miasma on August 17, 2014, 05:09:22 AM
Remember these are seperate 24 hour periods, not cumulative.

(http://i.imgur.com/pijXbK2.png)

Honestly, not as much as I was expecting.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on August 17, 2014, 06:14:40 AM
The FBI should probably start investigating them for money laundering. That's bit coin like stuff now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maven on August 17, 2014, 07:15:54 AM
Something stinks.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on August 17, 2014, 01:02:35 PM
Something stinks.

What tipped you off?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on August 17, 2014, 03:55:45 PM
Earlier in the thread I posted about a guy who spent a lot of money on this. I had a beer with him and a friend today. He came clean. He has spent about $18,500 so far. We suggested that he seek professional help ASAP.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on August 17, 2014, 04:06:35 PM
Is that at or near the max you can spend so far or is there even more he can buy?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on August 17, 2014, 04:19:35 PM
Earlier in the thread I posted about a guy who spent a lot of money on this. I had a beer with him and a friend today. He came clean. He has spent about $18,500 so far. We suggested that he seek professional help ASAP.

Jesus christ

Yes, like, hopefully that was unironic advice. Like that he literally needs a therapist to help him with his compulsions.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on August 17, 2014, 04:58:10 PM
It was real friend advice. It is clearly a problem. You have to ask the question, at what point should Roberts cut off a customer? I mean shit at some point human compassion should take over and the company should stop the insanity.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on August 17, 2014, 05:20:48 PM
You don't cut off your whales.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on August 17, 2014, 05:22:50 PM
Earlier in the thread I posted about a guy who spent a lot of money on this. I had a beer with him and a friend today. He came clean. He has spent about $18,500 so far. We suggested that he seek professional help ASAP.
Does he know he's been the victim of a con or is the type to spend money on this the actual stupidest sort of person?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on August 17, 2014, 05:29:31 PM
Earlier in the thread I posted about a guy who spent a lot of money on this. I had a beer with him and a friend today. He came clean. He has spent about $18,500 so far. We suggested that he seek professional help ASAP.
Does he know he's been the victim of a con or is the type to spend money on this the actual stupidest sort of person?
He believes he is getting a game he can play for decades. He is convinced that it is going to be so popular that what he has spent will be equivalent to an actual investment. His wife moved out. My other buddy and I think she is positioning for divorce. It's some scary as fuck self delusion.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on August 17, 2014, 05:35:02 PM
Self-delusion is a failure to recognize reality. He's so, so far past that. He was past self-delusion when he spent $2,000 on theoretical space ship game. I wouldn't blame my wife for moving out if I did something like that, but all of my hobbies have a nearly immediate and obvious return.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on August 17, 2014, 05:58:08 PM
Or if you rake in $300,000 a year you can afford to blow $18 large on a hobby. I doubt this is the case for the guy in this case.

I mean his wife moving out, good lord. That should be the final straw.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on August 17, 2014, 06:12:51 PM
At $300k in modern society you should not be blowing $18k on a hobby without immediate turnaround.

$500k+, ok, maybe.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on August 17, 2014, 08:01:51 PM
I am fairly certain some of the money he spent was taken from his school loans. The three of us all went back to school when, individually, our businesses all went down the drain due to the economy. He used to run a granite shop that did counter tops and other stone trim. He had to sell all of his production equipment to save their home and I am pretty sure he has been living off his wife's salary for a couple of years since he went back to school.

It blows my mind he spent that much money. I mean I spend money on games, and I made a deal in my wife's favor to get away with purchasing elite dangerous. But I think in the last year I have spent probably 400 bucks on games, but that's like an entire hobby for a year. Eighteen and a half grand on a single game that gives no monetary return investment is mind blowing. I don't think I have spent that much in a whole twenty years of gaming. That includes computers and peripherals.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on August 17, 2014, 08:13:31 PM
Have him join f13. It's almost time for the yearly donation drive and he strikes me as a big fucking idiot that I want to take potshots at for funsies.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on August 17, 2014, 08:20:20 PM
All dose cartel coins.

Gone, gone like tears on the bear.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/829607/sochi/sochi-bear-crying.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on August 17, 2014, 08:40:24 PM
$18,500 blows my mind. I can't wrap my head around spending that much money on a single game that isn't even out yet. If he was loaded it wouldn't be so incomprehensible; the fact that he's ruining his real, 3d life and losing his real, 3d wife due to an obsession over a nonexistent game really hurts my head.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on August 17, 2014, 09:30:33 PM
I would be willing to wager that there are at least a few people on this forum that have spent a ridiculous amount of money on Star Citizen. Not like they would speak up and face ridicule though.

To bring in the type of money they are, there has to be a large number of big fish.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on August 17, 2014, 11:21:21 PM
I'd like to imagine that the people here that have and would spend that kind of money on this pile of shit are either already banned or people I wouldn't mind banning.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on August 18, 2014, 12:13:23 AM
I would be willing to wager that there are at least a few people on this forum that have spent a ridiculous amount of money on Star Citizen. Not like they would speak up and face ridicule though.

To bring in the type of money they are, there has to be a large number of big fish.

$1000 on Star Citizen is a ridiculous amount. For $18,500 I'd actually feel better if he spent it all on heroin and gambling and just told you guys he spent it on Star Citizen. Those are at least understandable addictions as opposed to just being a fuckwit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on August 18, 2014, 12:18:04 AM
Naw, I can see some of the Eve diehards here spending $1,000. That's a number I can understand. It's also a number that most of us have spent on dumb worthless hobbies also. Also, $1,000 simply isn't that much. For example, it's less than 2 cases of Magic cards.

I threw $2,000 out there because it's an amount of money with which you could buy actual life improvements instead. Like an amazing bed. Or 5 KitchenAid mixers or something. Not fake spaceships.

Three of the things listed in this thread would make you either some of your money back or more Right Now.

Fake Spaceships never will.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on August 18, 2014, 12:35:24 AM
I did specify that it was ridiculous to spend $1000 on Star Citizen. That wasn't to say that it's a crazy amount to spend on anything.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on August 18, 2014, 01:00:01 AM
Fair.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on August 18, 2014, 01:17:43 AM
The trouble I have with spending that much on star citizen is that I don't understand what they are hoping to gain from it (compared to a normal $65 "price of the game at release"-player). I could (kind of) understand spending alot on a competitive game like EVE but I thought star citizen was other things mostly (like private servers and single player mode etc).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on August 18, 2014, 01:38:37 AM
Made no sense in Eve either.

CCP was 100% forever doomed to fail as Eve's success was a unique mix of poorly bottled lightning and luck. They have no idea why it was a success and could never replicate it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: DraconianOne on August 18, 2014, 02:53:29 AM
I read that figure last night and it's taken me this long to get my head around it. Jesus fuck but that's a lot of money.  :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on August 18, 2014, 03:45:30 AM
It's worrying, but there are always people who have extreme issues. The real worry with Star Citizen is that there are so damn many of them. And that they are being actively exploited.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Miasma on August 18, 2014, 04:08:50 AM
That kind of money you're talking mental issue gone extreme, like the people who filled their houses with beanie babies and hoarders.  Probably a fair bit of depression and he's built a fantasy where a video game can solve all his problems.  He has to spend more money to keep validating the belief or something.

Tell him there is a gray market to sell that crap, he would have to properly research how it works though.  You used to be able to just trade ships between accounts but I don't think you can do that anymore.  There are also of course scams so you have to be careful.  I think the rule is each hull can be traded once now and after that it's tied to the account.  A few people have received cash refunds with a nicely worded email.

For a second I thought you were the guy who posted the "a friend has asked to borrow a large amount of money" person which would have lead to, interesting times.

Last chart, they only made $270,000 yesterday.

(http://i.imgur.com/NMVS7qX.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on August 18, 2014, 04:09:09 AM
I find it easy to wrap my head around such numbers. It's a tell tale sign of clinical depression.

He lost his business and has to live off his wife that's a pretty big hit on the self worth of most men. He has marital problems that probably didn't start with the $18,500 donated to star citizen. He's back in school and probably frustrated that he's still not able to get a new job. And he spent an insane amount of money on some escapist fantasy. He's probably very depressed and it wouldn't surprise me if he has other issues besides overspending on ridiculous things.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on August 18, 2014, 04:10:47 AM
Damn beaten to it. What Miasma said.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on August 18, 2014, 04:22:32 AM
I almost wish I could speak to him in person. I would tell him that he's got a serious problem and that even if he doesn't have to be ashamed about it, he needs to take steps to handle it right now or his problematic spending / compulsive behaviors will rule him for the rest of his days sure as a hoarder becomes ruled by their shit.

If he can recoup entirely using the grey market, have him do that. Also he might want to consider petitioning Roberts for a refund, which is not really impossible.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on August 18, 2014, 05:12:02 AM
Yeah, from what I hear, you can still sell all this stuff to other suckers people, correct?  So if you guys can convince him to seek help and realize that it was a very bad mistake, he could possibly recover all the cash (possibly even make more if items went up in value), right?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Miasma on August 18, 2014, 05:57:41 AM
If he has rare ships that were limited release like Scythes or Retaliators he could make money on those, if he doesn't get scammed.  Most of his purchases were probably just things that they still sell though so his only advantage would be lifetime insurance so long as they were purchased before (I think) November.

If he did something extra crazy like buying the multi thousand dollar Idris mini-carrier those used to be able to be returned for a full refund because they still had a waiting list of others who would just snap them up immedietly, I don't know if that is still true.  The military version of the Idris used to sell for more than it cost on the gray market as well.

He would have to do his research.  Unless the account is full of rare stuff I doubt he would be able to sell the whole account in one fell swoop so it would take time.

Edit: He also has to be careful to get actual cash back from the buyers/company and not the in game credits.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on August 18, 2014, 06:54:42 AM
He is  already not talking to us.  He thinks we are taking his wife's side, even though we have been friends for a decade.  Telling him that he needs help triggered a whole "you guys have been talking to my wife" speech. I'm not going to get involved anymore with it,  I have enough of my own problems.  This whole thing makes me examine my own forms of escapism more closely though.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hoax on August 18, 2014, 07:24:00 AM
If any form of escapism is costing you $10k or more a year then you need to be worried.

If any form of escapism is buying imaginary shit you for sure need to be worried.

A form of escapism that does both? This may be one of the sadder things I've ever heard of. And here's the point, they aren't spending this cash to support the game. They are spending it because they want to be wolves and kings and the Big Swinging Dicks of the Star Citizen universe and they think this is their ticket to that. Which means that anything Roberts does that helps the people who didn't pay for the privileged of winning (no I don't think this is a real game but for argument sake lets pretend) is going to raise all sorts of hell with these sick fucks. So yeah this entire thing is doomed. All these whale backers will make sure that this game sucks because their own self interest is going to 100% conflict with making a game that's fun to join and play.

Fuck Star Citizen. Fuck Chris Roberts. This shit turns my stomach.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Miasma on August 18, 2014, 07:52:50 AM
Anything taken to an extreme is bad.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on August 18, 2014, 08:30:27 AM
Anything taken to an extreme is bad.

Extreme breast fondling sounds pretty okay.

I'm annoyed that the world needs another good space sim and this doesn't appear to be it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: DraconianOne on August 18, 2014, 02:10:23 PM
Anything taken to an extreme is bad.

Extreme breast fondling sounds pretty okay.

Depends on whether you go up to random strangers on the street to do it. 

Or pay the best part of $20k in hope that you will be fondle the best virtual breasts ever to be funded.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on August 18, 2014, 04:24:36 PM
Have him join f13. It's almost time for the yearly donation drive and he strikes me as a big fucking idiot that I want to take potshots at for funsies.

Hell, I'd donate $20 if you can get an interview with Chris Roberts and write something up about all this shit. Of course you'd probably have to hide this thread in a private forum for a bit just in case he decides to research the site.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Miasma on August 18, 2014, 04:38:49 PM
You want star citizen fans to follow him here?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on August 18, 2014, 04:53:57 PM
You want star citizen fans to follow him here?

We need something to entertain us.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on August 18, 2014, 04:55:25 PM
You want star citizen fans to follow him here?

You shd interview this guy who made this quote instead

(http://www.dereksmart.org/wp-content/themes/ds/images/quote.jpg)

guess who?
if you want to go to his website, www.<typehisfullname>.org


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pagz on August 18, 2014, 09:42:37 PM
Have him join f13. It's almost time for the yearly donation drive and he strikes me as a big fucking idiot that I want to take potshots at for funsies.

Hell, I'd donate $20 if you can get an interview with Chris Roberts and write something up about all this shit. Of course you'd probably have to hide this thread in a private forum for a bit just in case he decides to research the site.
(http://www.pkparaiso.com/imagenes/xy/sprites/animados/ditto.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on August 18, 2014, 10:27:43 PM
Anything taken to an extreme is bad.

Extreme breast fondling sounds pretty okay.

Depends on whether you go up to random strangers on the street to do it. 

*snip*

That'd just make it way more interesting.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on August 19, 2014, 05:56:37 AM
He is  already not talking to us.  He thinks we are taking his wife's side, even though we have been friends for a decade.  Telling him that he needs help triggered a whole "you guys have been talking to my wife" speech. I'm not going to get involved anymore with it,  I have enough of my own problems.  This whole thing makes me examine my own forms of escapism more closely though.

Have you considered a sign-off "this is my last attempt to get through to you on this" text?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Job601 on August 19, 2014, 09:27:39 AM
$18,500 is enough to buy a real boat that you can go sailing on in the ocean.  I think the most I've ever spent on a game is $400 or so during the time I played WoW.  The total cost of playing WoW since launch is probably around $1,800 or so now, so for $18,500 you could play an MMO for 100 years.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on August 19, 2014, 12:43:32 PM
This reminds me I haven't played HEX in over a month or two.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on August 19, 2014, 01:44:16 PM
He would have been better off spending the money on literal hookers and blow; at least then he would have had some fun before the inevitable divorce.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on August 19, 2014, 03:49:09 PM
B-but paying for sex is wrong, man.
You westerners have no moral values!
*places $1000 bets on world cup matches*


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on August 19, 2014, 07:31:47 PM
He would have been better off spending the money on literal hookers and blow; at least then he would have had some fun before the inevitable divorce.

Coca-Cola stock would have paid him over $500 in dividends on that money in the last year. That's enough to support my entire yearly gaming budget.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Abagadro on August 19, 2014, 11:16:25 PM
Paying that much for something like Star Citizen is not the problem, it is symptom of a much bigger problem.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on August 19, 2014, 11:19:11 PM
Paying that much for something like Star Citizen is not the problem, it is symptom of a much bigger problem.

Obviously.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on August 20, 2014, 06:07:48 AM
Paying that much for something like Star Citizen is not the problem, it is symptom of a much bigger problem.

Yeah the guy is fruit loops. Seems to go without saying.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on August 20, 2014, 10:09:23 AM
He would have been better off spending the money on literal hookers and blow; at least then he would have had some fun before the inevitable divorce.

Coca-Cola stock would have paid him over $500 in dividends on that money in the last year. That's enough to support my entire yearly gaming budget.

Totally off topic, but since you mentioned it and I'll forget otherwise; thanks for mentioning Coke stock somewhere else about a year agoas it was one of the companies I didn't have in my playfolio.  It's been doing well. up 23% since purchase! Only Tesla's beat it in that timeframe.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on August 20, 2014, 10:48:12 AM
Good! Yeah I bought some of it back when as well. It's been one of my more consistent performers when you take into account the income it throws off as well.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Miasma on August 20, 2014, 11:01:29 AM
Tesla is like the stock market version of this game.  All hype and people just tripping over themselves to throw money at it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on August 20, 2014, 04:42:46 PM
Tesla is like the stock market version of this game.  All hype and people just tripping over themselves to throw money at it.

No, it's different. The fun thing about Tesla's is so long as you aren't a fanatic you can ride that hype train to more money instead of less.

Good! Yeah I bought some of it back when as well. It's been one of my more consistent performers when you take into account the income it throws off as well.

Yeah, my playfolio started about dividend stocks and when you mentioned Coke I went, "well, DUH how'd I miss that one?"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on August 20, 2014, 07:05:39 PM
I like Sysco as well. It's up 11% from when I picked it up last year.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on August 20, 2014, 08:13:27 PM
Tesla is like the stock market version of this game.  All hype and people just tripping over themselves to throw money at it.

No, it's different. The fun thing about Tesla's is  it's real.

There.

As mentioned a bunch, $18.5k on nothing is just a symptom.

That aside, any bet on this game is pure pipe dream anyway. "Insanity" or "strategic investment" is entirely retroective to whether this launches ever and doesn't suck even if it does launch. Anyone who's thrown even $20 at this has more disposable income to throw in the fireplace than I do :-)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on August 21, 2014, 03:27:23 AM
The 53M stretch goal is a paid (?) job at Cloud Imperium Games. (http://www.gamebreaker.tv/games/star-citizen-mmorpg/star-citizen-new-stretch-goal-paid-position-studio/)


Quote
“Have you been wronged by your superiors? Has the member of your organization entrusted with watching the funds, been watching them go into their own pocket? Think you don’t have any recourse? You’re wrong. Fully licensed and bonded to work within the UEE and beyond, the Independent Arbitrator’s Guild allows citizens (and civilians, we don’t discriminate!) to file complaints against (or within) private organizations. Petition cases with our IAG representatives to have your voice heard and restitutions made. Is your business less than legitimate? IAG is only here to judge the matters you want us to. Confidentiality is guaranteed.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on August 21, 2014, 05:23:50 AM
Tesla is like the stock market version of this game.  All hype and people just tripping over themselves to throw money at it.

No, it's different. The fun thing about Tesla's is  it's real.

There.

No, no, no. The cars are real, yes, but the company is as of yet unproven long-term and the stock price feels really inflated due to hype. They still have plenty of chances to fall on their face, especially if the 3 doesn't deliver what's already been promised.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on August 21, 2014, 05:47:06 AM
It's pretty unfair to Tesla to compare them  to something as mindboggling as Star Citzen.

Tesla is currently selling 2500 Model S per Week. They have a proven business plan and are already at break even point. They have lots of assets, an interesting and valuable stack of patents, technology and know how. They already license their technology to Toyota and Daimler Benz, have several Joint Ventures with other car companies and invest in the long term development of the company. They already steal arket share from BMW, Daimler and Audi in the Luxury sedan Segment (E Class, 5 Series, A7). Sales of those luxury sedans droppen by 10% since the Model S went on sale.

Even if growth slows down or Musk tires of the company it won't go under. Worst case is that it will be bought by a competitor for it's assets and know how. Even if they never ever sell  cars they will be around because of their battery technology expertise and know how in battery production and design for automotive.

Tesla already has a clearer business case and a better business model than Google and Facebook or indeed most of those Silicon Valley Internet Companies and they also burned a lot less venture capital than for example Twitter. While researching, developing and building cars which in theory requires a lot more capital than running a website. Tesla indeed has a better chance of surviving the next few years than 1/3 of the established car companies out there competing in an overcrowded and shrinking market.

The stock might be overvalued and a company that only existed for a few years cannot prove that it can sustain that success long term, obviously but as a Blue Chip company it's far off from something as nuts as Star Citizen.

Let's put it another way. Until now everything Tesla has claimed it would do did in fact happen. So if they deliver on the promise of the Model X and Model 3 and can deliver it with the specs and at the price point they claim, then a lot of established car companies will be in lots and lots of trouble.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Speedy Cerviche on August 21, 2014, 06:47:41 AM
Haha seriously? Tesla  at $30 billion market cap while selling less than 100,000 cars per year is a huge joke and just as dumb as this game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Miasma on August 21, 2014, 09:48:51 AM
See?  Speedy agrees with m... oh shit.

On a serious note I'm not saying the company is worthless, I like the company and the tech but it does not deserve a market cap that puts it at half the value of GM or Ford.  That's crazy.  Their market share is negligible and every major car company is coming up with their own tech and take on electric cars.  That said if you bought a year ago and have been enjoying the ride good stuff, I'm envious.  I hope you get out at the right time, whenever that may be, I have no idea.

They also just had to double the length of their warranty to calm peoples nerves after reports of malfunctions.  If those battery packs all start failing in a couple years they will have to replace every single one and they are quite expensive.  Putting an eight year warrenty on one of your most expensive experimental components is a risky gamble.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on August 21, 2014, 09:50:54 AM
Haha seriously? Tesla  at $30 billion market cap while selling less than 100,000 cars per year is a huge joke and just as dumb as this game.

Ha, please keep the false equivalencies to politics  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Stormwaltz on August 22, 2014, 08:13:06 PM
Towels. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Sc-Towel/Grey)

I... guess they're in The Guide?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on August 22, 2014, 09:52:23 PM
He's just taking the piss now, isn't he?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Abagadro on August 22, 2014, 11:46:40 PM
30 bucks for a shitty towel? I guess it is useful for the tears and spooge in equal measure being shed by this game's fanbase.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on August 23, 2014, 06:44:58 AM
Going to post this here instead of the Elite thread, cause that thread actually has useful information in it   :oh_i_see:

As someone that was never big into space sims, that smuggling video in Elite is awesome.  But more to the point, it's clearly shows that Elite is very much focused on gameplay design and using realism to drive gameplay as a whole (temperature + scanning) while Star Citizen seems to be using realism in ship design but hasn't really shown how any of that is influencing the gameplay at all yet.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Count Nerfedalot on August 23, 2014, 03:48:06 PM
But when your ship explodes, it explodes into real pieces, man! Realistically even!  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on August 23, 2014, 07:01:02 PM
So, do they place realistic explosives in every ship then, or do they just get holes and any fire gets extinguished by the vacuum?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on August 24, 2014, 07:16:32 AM
A 20 years old David Braben (and Ian Bell).

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3584773/1984%20Braben.jpg)



A 23 years old Chris Roberts.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3584773/1991%20Chris%20Roberts%20back-on-the-flight-deck-an-interview-with-wing-commanders-chris-roberts.jpg)


I think their taste in clothing back then represents their game design style better than words.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on August 24, 2014, 11:24:08 AM
Holy God. Did he steal New Kids on the Block's wardrobe?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Spiff on August 24, 2014, 10:23:31 PM
Laugh all you want, but that shirt will be available in the SC store for a mere $59,95 any day now!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on August 25, 2014, 12:11:34 AM
Towels. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Sc-Towel/Grey)

I... guess they're in The Guide?

Hey, at least people who buy the towels will actually end up with something to show for the money they spent.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on August 25, 2014, 01:24:03 AM
The towels are and will probably be the best part of SC.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on August 25, 2014, 01:40:49 AM
I almost bought the towels just so I could have a piece of this virtual stillbirth.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on August 25, 2014, 08:29:08 AM
Towels. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Sc-Towel/Grey)

I... guess they're in The Guide?
This seems like a missed opportunity. Only one towel, and not a separate version for each virtual ship type you own? :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Signe on August 25, 2014, 08:30:21 AM
I would buy that towel if it were signed by Douglas Adams.  And had a puppy wrapped up inside it. 

(http://i.imgur.com/lXUkU0R.jpg)

Speaking of puppies.... Imgur is hiring mobile engineers.  They're in San Fransisco.  It looks like a nice place to work. 



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Typhon on August 25, 2014, 12:51:49 PM
I almost bought the towels just so I could have a piece of this virtual stillbirth.

This is never coming to an end.  No don't get me wrong, a playable, fun game will never be released.  But so what?  As long as they have a merchandise shop and virtual ships making so much cash why would they need to launch?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on August 25, 2014, 01:27:36 PM
I almost bought the towels just so I could have a piece of this virtual stillbirth.

This is never coming to an end.  No don't get me wrong, a playable, fun game will never be released.  But so what?  As long as they have a merchandise shop and virtual ships making so much cash why would they need to launch?

They can't stall forever. Lawyers will get involved eventually if there's a several million dollar kitty at stake.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on August 25, 2014, 01:50:29 PM
Why do you all think it won't ever get released? Launching a shitty game isn't hard these days. It will never meet the expectations, and the pitchfork phase will be hilarious to watch from the stands, but how could it not get released? Even when it'll be obvious it sucks there will always be some worshipers with a heavy wallet, so why in the world would they not try and launch it anyway at some point?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on August 25, 2014, 01:59:15 PM
Releasing a turd with 15% of the features doesn't count as a release. That's taking a dump on your fans.

They'll try of course, but with the amount of overhead he's piling up it's making the Curt Schilling payroll look reasonable.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hoax on August 25, 2014, 05:03:45 PM
Why do you all think it won't ever get released? Launching a shitty game isn't hard these days. It will never meet the expectations, and the pitchfork phase will be hilarious to watch from the stands, but how could it not get released? Even when it'll be obvious it sucks there will always be some worshipers with a heavy wallet, so why in the world would they not try and launch it anyway at some point?

Right now the incentive is for them to delay and promise. As long as they can do that they can make money. As long as they are making money releasing something that will make people freak out and stop giving them money is a bad business decision.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on August 26, 2014, 09:07:20 AM
This game will be released. It will be decent but weird. People who got in for $30 will be pretty happy. People who put in thousands of dollars will be demented bizarro shits over every aspect of how space sim jesus didn't turn out how they impossibly expected but will soon separate into two camps of embittered burnouts and stockholm syndrome hangers-on with incredible powers of cognitive dissonance to excuse their investments.

Err, I mean, "investments."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on August 26, 2014, 09:08:47 AM
although and i hate to fucking admit it people who are seeing the light and cashing out on this shitshow are getting like 300% of their money back on the grey market


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on August 26, 2014, 11:31:03 AM
although and i hate to fucking admit it people who are seeing the light and cashing out on this shitshow are getting like 300% of their money back on the grey market

There's always a good secondary market for a ponzi scheme on the way up.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: UnSub on August 28, 2014, 06:36:29 AM
although and i hate to fucking admit it people who are seeing the light and cashing out on this shitshow are getting like 300% of their money back on the grey market

As the saying goes: it's not time in the market that makes you money, it's timing the market.  :grin:

Especially timing those sales to the day before SC makes clear how easy / hard it is to get those ships in game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: apocrypha on September 01, 2014, 01:09:50 AM
http://www.incgamers.com/2014/08/play-star-citizen-and-arena-commander-free-until-5-septemer

Promo code that supposedly lets you play for free until 5th Sept. Haven't tested it myself, not got time this week to take advantage of it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on September 01, 2014, 01:43:22 AM
I get 300MB down, would I be able to download the client by September 5th?

It's what, 9TB? 8.5TB of which is an uncompressed audio file of Chris Roberts masturbating into a 1/8th scale ISS figurine?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on September 12, 2014, 02:32:28 AM
Today, CIG should release Arena Commander v. 0.9:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14144-Arena-Commander-V09-Status-Update

It will contain (full patch notes later today):

- Co-op Vanduul Swarm (co-op play against AI)
- Multiplayer racing mode (in-fiction "Murray Cup". This should be very cool)
- Private game modes (so play only with your friends/group)
- Updated visuals on all Hangars, with the inclusion of the all new "Asteroid" hangar
- web based leaderboards based on all game modes

Regarding the specific flying mechanics, this patch is important because it will introduce 6 DoF flying, so, among other things, you'll be able to strafe without resorting to the so called "decoupled" mode (but you will still have the possibility of switching between various modes: coupled/decoupled/comstab on&off/G-force control on&off). They're also increasing the relative speed of ships, adding new sound effects and visual feedback, again in relation to the speed of your sheep, err, ship.

While I think they'll always keep another stance on "flying" compared to E:D (just like it happened twenty years ago), we should see some actual steps toward the E:D "feel", although Yaw will be definitely alot more prominent in SC as a whole (and I personally prefer it this way as long as they limit "turreting", something that hopefully will be less noticeable after this patch).

No full key/joystick customization yet, although this patch will introduce a lot of profiles for the most common peripherals (previously, they only had mouse/keyboard, Rhino, Thrustmaster Warthog, console controller).

-------

Other stuff coming today:

- M50 (the main in-fiction racing ship) brochure and commercial
- Maybe a new letter for the chairman for the $53 million funding reached
- Cake for everyone (everyone who pay them some more, that is :D)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on September 12, 2014, 09:56:44 AM
Aaand, Arena Commander v. 0.9 has just been released. Here are the full details (there is also a link to the full patch notes):

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14143-Arena-Commander-V09-Released

Link also includes the in-engine trailer for the Origin M50 racing ship.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 16, 2014, 08:24:58 AM
Roberts Space Industries Constellation Commercial (http://youtu.be/zG-82TakEqk)

Co op Vandull swarm with TrackIR in Arena commander (http://youtu.be/TFeKiOwpb4M)

Star Citizen - Insane Race - m50 (http://youtu.be/rH4evg58UI0)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on September 16, 2014, 10:16:36 AM
$50,000,000+ and the first actual gameplay I've seen is shitty WipeOut.

 :psyduck:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on September 16, 2014, 10:43:33 AM
There's a lot ot hate and laugh about with Star Citizen, but lack of gameplay videos is not it.

There's tons of videos on youtube both by players and devs showing space combat.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on September 16, 2014, 10:44:39 AM
I said that "I've seen," I figured it was pretty clear I wouldn't be out hunting for it. Is there any footage of actual dogfights between multiple players from anyone not a developer?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maven on September 16, 2014, 11:15:24 AM
You know that throwing that qualifier to explain your statement doesn't make your original statement very strong or noteworthy, right?

First I was going to mock you about being unable to Google it for yourself and requesting someone else to do it -- but then I did it anyway, god damn you schild and your social engineering.

Anyway, this looks like what you're looking for, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZecJntqrXQ) but there does seem to be a preponderance of Developer-Only videos.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on September 16, 2014, 11:18:15 AM
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm not.

That is single-player.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 16, 2014, 11:23:24 AM
Is there any footage of actual dogfights between multiple players from anyone not a developer?

Yes, has been since it was added.

Code:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Star+citizen+PvP

Twitch is also littered with them, and one of the videos above, is Co-op VS swam. I Just found the combo of HOTAS and TrackIR really fun to watch.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maven on September 16, 2014, 11:24:47 AM
Well, with all due respect, look it up yourself then. I don't have the time for that research, and I didn't see why anyone should do it for you. Other people are busy with their lives, too.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 16, 2014, 11:33:49 AM
$50,000,000+ and the first actual gameplay I've seen is shitty WipeOut.

 :psyduck:

You say this as if all the money to date was spent on it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on September 16, 2014, 11:56:12 AM
I found this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPAk_TPyTwA).  Looks like pretty standard arena deathmatch type stuff -- no multi-player ships, nothing persistent or simmy.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 16, 2014, 12:37:01 PM
Modes of play:

- Free flight
- Single player Vanduul swarm
- Co-op Vanduul swarm
- Death match
- Capture the core ( Capture the flag, Is PvP )
- Murry cup


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on September 25, 2014, 04:11:21 PM
Update on the Retaliator (finishing touches on its "greybox" phase): it's the first Heavy Bomber spaceship that was announced during the KS; its military variant will be featured in the single-player campaign. Details are quite amazing (be sure to watch it in hi-res)  :awesome_for_real:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc-7Luzbxxg


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on September 25, 2014, 05:19:50 PM
All I got from that video is that door opening animations don't work yet.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Xuri on September 26, 2014, 11:00:32 AM
All I got from that video is "This video is private."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on September 26, 2014, 12:17:24 PM
All I got from that video is "This video is private."

Try the following link; looks like they changed the background music (from Clint Mansell's piece to a in-house one).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw18M19BMSI&channel=RobertsSpaceInd


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on September 26, 2014, 09:04:57 PM
Ugh it's like watching the "I don't care 5k polys is pushing the limits, I need at least 20k on my rivets alone" people all over again.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on September 26, 2014, 09:22:18 PM
None of the gameplay elements that they've implemented so far use any of those ship interiors, do they?  If they had a video showing combat in that environment and it looked fun, all the shiny polys would be a nice bit of icing on the cake.  As it is I don't understand what I'm supposed to be excited about.  Why don't I feel anything?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on September 27, 2014, 02:12:39 AM
If I remember right they showed a 'gameplay' video a while back which featured multi-crew ship, and it had people move around inside of the ship to the control stations and such while enemies were flying outside, shooting etc. No clue if anything of that is actually implemented though, or when it might be.

In other news, apparently they've figured out a business even better than selling virtual spaceships is selling virtual virtual spaceships (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14171-Concept-Sale-Unveiling-The-Aegis-Reclaimer) :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maven on September 27, 2014, 02:26:08 AM
Oh my god. This is a scam.  :ye_gods: Someone needs to investigate and press charges for this.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on September 27, 2014, 03:12:00 AM
If I remember right they showed a 'gameplay' video a while back which featured multi-crew ship, and it had people move around inside of the ship to the control stations and such while enemies were flying outside, shooting etc. No clue if anything of that is actually implemented though, or when it might be.

In other news, apparently they've figured out a business even better than selling virtual spaceships is selling virtual virtual spaceships (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14171-Concept-Sale-Unveiling-The-Aegis-Reclaimer) :awesome_for_real:

Yeah, regarding ship interiors, they're being done for immersion, roleplaying etc. but also gameplay reasons: multi-crew ships (not the single seaters) can be boarded, so the FPS mechanics they're integrating will kick in, in that case (the FPS mechanics will be unveiled on November 1st at PAX Australia). And yeah, some secondary "command" stations might be located in other rooms.

Remember that the Retaliator is big, yeah, but it's "just" an heavy bomber: corvettes, frigates, carriers, big salvage ships are a whole different matter.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on September 27, 2014, 07:07:48 AM
Oh my god. This is a scam.  :ye_gods: Someone needs to investigate and press charges for this.

They're going backwards with the sales, soon there'll be a special pre-concept sale where you pledge to buy anything that may or may not be conceived by the developers.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on September 27, 2014, 07:39:11 AM
How is that one worse than the previous ones?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on September 27, 2014, 08:07:13 AM
You're right, they've done it before. Now they just want more money. You peel back the layers and there's no end to the crazy.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14159-Future-Concept-Sale-Plans



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hoax on September 27, 2014, 04:44:28 PM
I certainly have never felt more disgust for a game's community before the game was even a game than I do with this pile of shit. Its hard not to wish for this thing to fail massively and horribly at this point. Which is twisted because I love scifi and space and space dogfighting.

Also the gameplay in the dogfight thing looks pretty weak. Can't say anything about what it feels like to pilot without playing it myself but the weapon's fire especially comes across as looking really lame in a lot of the stream/youtube stuff I've caught glimpses of.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on September 27, 2014, 08:36:08 PM
Is this thread not yet Den'd only because the game isn't already out and therefore hasn't gone through the hype > disillusionment > disgust cycle yet?  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on September 27, 2014, 08:41:42 PM
this game has its own cycle


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on September 28, 2014, 11:17:49 PM
350 dollars for a ship they haven't even finished designing yet. With a promise that the price of the ship will rise in the future. Sweet mother of God.

And I had a look at the dogfighting video. I lost it when the guy said when he was staring at his ship in front view "You can see me moving my stick in the cockpit. Pretty cool, huh?" He also commented that as he was "cheap" and was just a backer he only got a ship that was utter crap. Good to know they are going pay to win years before release :D

There's nothing there that wasn't in Starlancer. Except that the effects are worse.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: koro on September 29, 2014, 05:25:02 AM
Someone, somewhere is going to kill themselves over this game when/if it falls flat.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lantyssa on September 29, 2014, 07:02:04 AM
Y'know, if people want to throw money at the devs for plans of plans of fake spaceships... I don't begrudge them taking advantage.  It's gone from "this is insane" to "why didn't I think of this?" territory.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on September 29, 2014, 07:05:43 AM
Y'know, if people want to throw money at the devs for plans of plans of fake spaceships... I don't begrudge them taking advantage.  It's gone from "this is insane" to "why didn't I think of this?" territory.

It's even cheaper to manufacture and deliver than a coffee mug or T-Shirts.
Stupid Obsidian and InXile doesn't know shit about marketing.
What fools, promising all the doodads inside the boxed copy.
Roberts made 10x per box sale compared to them and he hasn't even released the game. HAH!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on September 29, 2014, 09:14:34 AM
Yeah, there's room for one big scam before it all comes falling down.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on September 29, 2014, 08:13:19 PM
Room for more than one.  Proof in some of the scams in EVE Online.

Do we know for a fact that nobody has tried this type of "prepay for vaporware" scam before?  Maybe with success on a smaller scale?



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on September 30, 2014, 08:41:53 PM
I can't think of anything close to this scale. To some degree a lot of season passes are prepay for vaporware, but those top out at like $30.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on September 30, 2014, 08:44:09 PM
Has there been a high profile season pass that didn't deliver?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cadaverine on October 01, 2014, 09:03:36 PM
The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Defiance, but I don't know that it counts as high profile.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on October 02, 2014, 01:37:41 AM
Has there been a high profile season pass that didn't deliver?

Define "didn't deliver."

The Uncharted 3 season pass was advertised as having all the DLC content including future content, then it turned out it only included the first X sets - some people were pissed off. (The messaging was somewhat contradictory and reigion-specific) And there have been a few season passes that promised something like "4 DLC packages" but one of the packages was only a multiplayer map or skins or something. But I don't think there's been one that flat out didn't come close to including what it said it would.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on October 02, 2014, 06:45:16 AM
You called them prepay for vaporware; the limited few that I've bought have not been vaporware so I was confused.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 02, 2014, 07:52:16 AM
Star Citizen isn't vaporware though. It's unfinishable bloatware that can never deliver to the expectations that are making people throw thousands of dollars at it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on October 02, 2014, 11:47:35 AM
Star Citizen will absolutely attempt to launch something. It will just be crap and dash the dreams of the backers while being 15% feature complete, as Schild said.

Then Chris Roberts will lick the blood from his fingers in front of a huge MISSION ACCOMPLISHED banner.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on October 02, 2014, 04:32:40 PM
Launching doesn't make sense to me.   It doesn't make sense to burst everyone's bubble; it makes a lot more sense to keep bloating it up while getting paid for promises.

Imagine you inherited the project, what would you do?  If you immediately release as is, it's shit; your reputation is gone on release day.  If you work to fix it, then you're working, but backers have paid their due already, they're not paying you more.  If you promise to not just fix it, but make it even better (for additional funds) then you get paid now for work later, and just pass the project on to someone else once you've had enough income.

My prediction is that the website will stop getting updated once he notices that promises of new features generate forum interest but $0 additional income from backers, and that will be that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Thrawn on October 02, 2014, 04:54:49 PM
Imagine you inherited the project, what would you do?

Spin some story about poorly spent money and launch a second Kickstarter with even more promises and pre-order bonuses and dreams of an even bigger game and getting the current project back on track.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on October 02, 2014, 05:34:53 PM
I think ajax has it right. There's no reason to launch ever. No bubble burst, you're just in foreverdevelopment, and the people who start leaving do so because of old age, boredom, or most rarely, coming down with a case of the smarts. People leaving in a trickle does not a bad PR statement make. That's much better PR than whatever they manage to launch.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on October 03, 2014, 04:35:39 AM
I don't know, I think they truly believe in what they are making, and are 100% confident they can do it.  It’s dumb, because they'll never be able to live up to the hype or get the features they promised working.  But I don't think this is some intentional malevolent scam.  Just a bunch of naive nerds who bought into their own hype, and doing everything they can to keep funding their totally awesome project that keeps taking longer to make than they thought for some reason.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rattran on October 03, 2014, 06:14:45 AM
Just wait for the announcement that the indefinite delay is for simultaneous release on PC, Xbone, PS4, and Phantom consoles. But please buy this next concept of a concept of a ship, only $399.99 for a limited time! ad infinum


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on October 03, 2014, 07:11:44 AM
I don't know, I think they truly believe in what they are making, and are 100% confident they can do it.  It’s dumb, because they'll never be able to live up to the hype or get the features they promised working.  But I don't think this is some intentional malevolent scam.  Just a bunch of naive nerds who bought into their own hype, and doing everything they can to keep funding their totally awesome project that keeps taking longer to make than they thought for some reason.

I tend to think this is it.  I mean, maybe it really is malicious and bordering on a scam.  But I suspect they've actually just bought into their own hype.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hoax on October 03, 2014, 08:47:04 AM
That may be how it started but by now with the money just rolling in and along with that the pressure to get every one of these ridiculous features working together...

Its just bad business to actually release the final release aka an actual full game. But if they can promise a new awesome amazing feature and then blame a delay of another 2-4 months on incorporating it into the amazing full game they totally have almost finished that buys them more time to make things work.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on October 03, 2014, 11:27:08 AM
That may be how it started but by now with the money just rolling in and along with that the pressure to get every one of these ridiculous features working together...

Its just bad business to actually release the final release aka an actual full game. But if they can promise a new awesome amazing feature and then blame a delay of another 2-4 months on incorporating it into the amazing full game they totally have almost finished that buys them more time to make things work.

This. This is turning a job for life project. The job is being in the constant state of delivering rather than really focused on any finite delivery. Or: working with fluid end goals.

They can just keep on working on it until eventually the intended audience loses interest. Then what they have is whatever engine and assets they've created. If they they time it right, those assets give them golden parachutes when, say, Gearbox or Microsoft buys them up. But if they're wrong, it's just a firesale of office equipment and hard drives well after everyone's already gotten jobs elsewhere. Both end up with some guy who spend hundreds of thousands of dollars wanting to sue them for undelivery. But after dumping all that cash, he can't afford to fight corporate lawyers and would be dead list in line through the bankruptcy proceeding anyway :awesome_for_real:

The worst thing they can do is launch a complete product that sucks. And after all this time and dollars, they'd need to be living in some kind of opiate infused echo chamber to feel they can pull off something approximate to the expectations.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 03, 2014, 12:49:12 PM
Just to add to the discussion, here's what Chris Roberts wrote in his last Letter from the Chairman:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14184-Letter-From-The-Chairman

Quote
I sometimes get asked why continue to raise money. Haven’t you already raised enough to make the game? The answer is that Star Citizen isn’t a normal game. It’s not being developed like a normal game and it’s not being funded like a normal game. I’ve had to toss aside a lot of my knowledge from the old way of developing and embrace a completely new world. There is no publisher. There is no venture capitalist wanting a massive return in three years. There is no need to cram the game onto a disc and hope we got it all right. Star Citizen is not the type of game that will be played for a few weeks, then put on a shelf to gather dust. Instead of building a game in secrecy we can be fully open with you as a community who have made this game possible. We can involve the future player base in the creative feedback loop as we develop and iterate core systems. As a group we are all involved and united in our quest to make the best game possible.

I have a lot of industry friends pat me on the back and say, “Wow, it must be so great to be operating in profit even before you ship!” Their look usually turns to incredulity when I explain that my intention is for all the money we bring in before launch to be spent on development. It is the community, from the existing backers who continue to support the game, to new members who join every day who are setting the level of ambition and budget for Star Citizen. Every effort is about enriching the game’s vision. Funding to date has allowed us to go so far beyond what I thought was possible in 2012. You’re still getting that game, no question, but it will be all the richer and so much more immersive because of the additional funding.

Long ago I stopped looking at this game the way I did when I worked for a publisher who gave me a fixed budget to make a retail game. I now look at our monthly fundraising and use that to set the amount of resources being used to develop this game. We keep a healthy cash reserve so that if funding stopped tomorrow we would still be able to deliver Star Citizen (not quite to the current level of ambition, but well above what was planned in Oct 2012). If you combine our in-house staff and outsourced developers, we now number more than 280 people. Your support has created a significant number of jobs in the gaming industry. (And no matter what you might have heard, only a small number of our team is tasked with designing new ships!)

If we had raised the original amount and no more, we wouldn’t be able to deliver involved capital ship systems or the level of FPS gameplay that we are now planning for planets in the Persistent Universe. Nor would have the time or budget to continually upgrade the game with new features like Physically Based Rendering (PBR), or continually strive to make the art assets better. Just compare the Hornet from October 2012 to the current PBR Hornet in Arena Commander. Our ability to iterate in Arena Commander, to try different flight or targeting schemes, or add new game modes that are test beds for future Persistent Universe gameplay is all due to our increased funding, as is the ability to deliver FPS, Planetside and Squadron 42 as modules or episodic content for the community all before the game is “done.” And in the process, you’re giving us the time to get it right, and you’re giving us more opportunities to share our work with you.

I know some people are afraid of “feature creep” and the game never being finished as we keep adding functionality and content to the mix with increased funding. I would say that this would be fair criticism if we were delivering this game at retail and on disc. However, we are online and already pushing out builds, well before Star Citizen reaches what anyone would consider a “finished” stage. Just because we haven’t implemented a planned feature or built a certain asset yet doesn’t prevent us from sharing the game with everyone right now. It’s this evolved process which gives us the Hangar and Arena Commander and so many modules yet to come. We’re sharing the game as it’s being built and it’s an amazing opportunity for everyone who has backed, to have input on the direction the game is going. You just don’t get this in the traditional game business.

Ship sales and new members of our community are the two main fund raising sources. I want to stress that no one has to or should contribute more than the basic amount for a starting package. Everything is earnable in the game with enough time (and skill). However, if you like the direction we are taking and want to contribute more to the development of Star Citizen, then purchasing different ships with diverse roles are a great way to give back for this support. The new ships add interesting new gameplay and populating the future Persistent Universe with a range of different ships, flown by players pursuing all kinds of professions, will only add to the richness of the game once it’s fully live.

That’s what Star Citizen is about: the creative freedom to build something unlike anything that has been done before and the ability to do it with the support of a community that is as passionate about this game as I am. We want to make the Best Damn Space Sim Ever, and with your continued support I know we will.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on October 03, 2014, 01:00:03 PM
Open-ended budget on an open-ending project with an open-ended feature list funded by customers willing to spend $30 on a towel and involved in the design process? WHAT COULD GO WRONG?????


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maven on October 03, 2014, 01:15:14 PM
The man is not going to shut off the money faucet by saying "Maybe we shouldn't do this." He'll find a way to justify the use of the cash and rationalize it to himself and others. It's easy to think of the right thing to say and stick to it as a marketing line. Isn't that what politicians do? Talking points?

I'm looking forward to the legal cases that arise out of this.

"Some people are afraid of feature creep." That's so telling. It's not about delivering to retail on a disc. It's about setting a deadline with a limited feature set and delivering. You want to have a Minecraft style release schedule, great. But just because you say all the money is going to eventually go into development doesn't mean it will. As you can see, it's already gone into things that have nothing to do with the game, like freakin' towels.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on October 03, 2014, 05:12:38 PM
A year from now we'll finally be able to update the phrase "Remember, PT Barnum said..."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: UnSub on October 04, 2014, 01:03:50 AM
I like how Roberts has turned what any sane person would consider a huge problem with project planning into an asset used to attract more money.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on October 04, 2014, 07:09:10 AM
I like how the rhetoric is starting to show major parallels with claims made for the Battlecruiser games made by a certain Smart person.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on October 04, 2014, 07:45:06 AM
eh nevermind


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maven on October 04, 2014, 09:13:01 AM
I like how Roberts has turned what any sane person would consider a huge problem with project planning into an asset used to attract more money.

Succinct, insightful, excellent.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on October 04, 2014, 03:09:02 PM
I think ajax has it right. There's no reason to launch ever. No bubble burst, you're just in foreverdevelopment, and the people who start leaving do so because of old age, boredom, or most rarely, coming down with a case of the smarts. People leaving in a trickle does not a bad PR statement make. That's much better PR than whatever they manage to launch.

That's why developers have now meaningless terms like Alpha, Open Beta, Closed Beta, etc..., which let the die-hard fans deflect any criticism. It doesn't matter how long a game has been in Beta, how slow the progress is being made, or how many bad design decisions get implemented, every valid complaint is going to be met with "shut up, it's Beta, you should expect stuff like this to happen". Developers can spend years having launched a game without officially "launching" the game, and while still taking peoples' money.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hoax on October 04, 2014, 05:25:07 PM
Truly a golden age.  :oh_i_see:

I wonder if Christ Roberts is going to ruin it for everybody else?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 04, 2014, 05:33:00 PM
He won't ruin it for anyone. The massive problem here isn't the core game. The massive problem is the scope. Chris is a terrible designer and maybe the worst "manager" I've ever seen. He blew it into impossible proportions out of greed, stupidity, or a combination of the two.

At this point, he deserves nothing less than failure and a class-action lawsuit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on October 04, 2014, 09:57:03 PM
I don't think he's stupid, and he's probably not too greedy; he's doing exactly what's needed to make RSI a successful business.  I don't think he could stop the scope increases if he wanted to, at this point; feature creep is critical to continued funding.

So what does he deserve for being a successful businessman (or scammer, whatever)?  I'd say look at EVE Online if you want to see how scammers are regarded.  The backers will hate him, but the rest of the Internet will think he's just about the smartest guy, and will only ridicule the backers for losing their money.  We're doing it here already.

Class action lawsuit?  Maybe if he doesn't deliver as promised, but technically a screenshot of a ship, or a 3-D model that you can look at with a hangar viewer = virtual goods delivered as promised.  Technically, if he models every ship that's been paid for, and creates all the game components that have been funded, but doesn't bother connecting them together or making a game out of them -- just puts them all on a disc in separate folders and ships the disc out to everyone, he's delivered.

It would even be beautiful:  "I keep saying how you, the community, make this game possible.  Well, I mean it: here are all the bits and pieces we have so far, make a game!  Good luck, and peace, I'm out."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 04, 2014, 10:10:40 PM
We can ridicule the backers and still call Chris Roberts a total shitheel. That's allowed. That is, in fact, the very thing we're doing. He's not the smartest guy in the room, and sure, he may not be stupid (that's up for debate, given an impossible scope in game design means you're pretty stupid), but he's almost CERTAINLY the greediest.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maven on October 04, 2014, 11:06:38 PM
Ballooning the project to such a size that it comes crashing down on the company isn't what's best for RSI. When the project was first announced, there was benefit of the doubt. All evidence points to this project as the Train Wreck of the Decade, and we're only at the part where it's beginning to wobble on the rails.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hoax on October 04, 2014, 11:37:10 PM
He won't ruin it for anyone. The massive problem here isn't the core game. The massive problem is the scope. Chris is a terrible designer and maybe the worst "manager" I've ever seen. He blew it into impossible proportions out of greed, stupidity, or a combination of the two.

At this point, he deserves nothing less than failure and a class-action lawsuit.

I meant did he ruin this:

I think ajax has it right. There's no reason to launch ever. No bubble burst, you're just in foreverdevelopment, and the people who start leaving do so because of old age, boredom, or most rarely, coming down with a case of the smarts. People leaving in a trickle does not a bad PR statement make. That's much better PR than whatever they manage to launch.

That's why developers have now meaningless terms like Alpha, Open Beta, Closed Beta, etc..., which let the die-hard fans deflect any criticism. It doesn't matter how long a game has been in Beta, how slow the progress is being made, or how many bad design decisions get implemented, every valid complaint is going to be met with "shut up, it's Beta, you should expect stuff like this to happen". Developers can spend years having launched a game without officially "launching" the game, and while still taking peoples' money.

Will Robert's greed and the insane amount of cash he has swindled ruin this type of swindle for future bloatware, shovelware and vaporware devs masquerading as game devs? That was what I was trying to ask.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on October 05, 2014, 03:58:36 PM
Nah. "Beta" has been used as a marketing milestone for years. He also won't kill crowd funding as a concept nor space sims. Plenty of stuff is crowd funded, and the only people who care about space sims are his backers and this thread.

I wonder if Christ Roberts is going to ruin it for everybody else?

Ha! Indeed. To his backers anyway...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hoax on October 05, 2014, 07:09:58 PM
I have been told by more than five people across multiple games that its ok to back Star Citizen hundreds of dollars because you can trust Chris Roberts. Often times they say "he put his name on it, so you know he won't scam you like other games". This usually comes up after you find out they backed SC hard and are mocking other greenlight or KS titles.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on October 05, 2014, 07:32:26 PM
The man is either completely in denial, or he's gone completely over to lawful evil.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on October 08, 2014, 05:00:06 AM
Another month, another stretch goal (or three). Chris Roberts' huge project continues to roll forward, with Star Citizen passing $56 million USD raised this week.  (http://themittani.com/news/star-citizen-exceeds-56-million-raised)  :ye_gods: :uhrr:   :why_so_serious:

This truly is a perpetual motion machine.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pezzle on October 08, 2014, 05:31:06 AM
Another month, another stretch goal (or three). Chris Roberts' huge project continues to roll forward, with Star Citizen passing $56 million USD raised this week.  (http://themittani.com/news/star-citizen-exceeds-56-million-raised)  :ye_gods: :uhrr:   :why_so_serious:

This truly is a perpetual motion machine.


A post from that page

Quote
How the fuck does it have a birthday if it hasnt ever been released?
Is it just the anniversary of the first time they bought a hooker with the kickstarter money?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: UnSub on October 09, 2014, 05:01:10 AM
There is a chance that backers will pour enough money into the project to paper over SC's scope creep. There's going to be an irony if the most successful crowdfunded game ends up costing more than all but the most expensive of AAA titles.

I will be at PAX AUS where Roberts is announcing something. I'm going to try to get in to that panel and see the madness with my own eyes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on October 09, 2014, 05:07:13 AM
What day is that? Will be there also.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: UnSub on October 09, 2014, 05:10:15 AM
Ahh, they've actually released the schedule (http://aus.paxsite.com/schedule): Friday at 3:30pm. I've heard they're showing off the FPS module.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Typhon on October 09, 2014, 05:50:42 AM
There is a chance that backers will pour enough money into the project to paper over SC's scope creep. There's going to be an irony if the most successful crowdfunded game ends up costing more than all but the most expensive of AAA titles.

I will be at PAX AUS where Roberts is announcing something. I'm going to try to get in to that panel and see the madness with my own eyes.

I'm (now not so) secretly hoping for this (success as a by-product of excess) just so that I can be spiteful to people in this thread that are sure that it's a scam and is doomed to failure.  To be clear, I do think it's scam-y, if not full on scam.  I do think that any success it has (likely none) will be actually due to the unnamed developers actually making the game, and not Roberts himself.  I'm not following the game in anyway except for this thread - if the (a?) game comes out and gets good word-of-mouth I'll play it, but I'm not hopeful for this in any way.  I do think that folks paying hundreds of dollars for ships that don't even exist and that they can get in-game for simply playing (that's my understanding, please correct me if that is flawed) are demented.

So I guess I'm very excited about the potential opportunity to spew bile on those spewing bile.  Does that make me a bad person?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on October 09, 2014, 07:20:22 AM
I've stopped making a distinction between scams by design and scams by negligence.

A good example of this is Spacebase - maybe they didn't plan to scam people, but they had no realistic plan to deliver the final product and the plan they had was 99% of the time going to result in something that ended up indistinguishable from a scam.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on October 09, 2014, 12:30:03 PM
The world needs a super cool space pew pew simulation game.  If this ends up scratching that itch, I'd play it.  Not for the eleventy thousand dollar some people are paying, but yeah.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 10, 2014, 03:37:49 AM
Tonight, at 7pm PDT, CIG will broadcast their 2nd "CitizenCon" from the Santa Monica CIG studios:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14203-CitizenCon-2014-Livestream


EDIT: oh, and here is the September 2014 Monthly Report (long read as usual):

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14191-Monthly-Report-September-2014



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 11, 2014, 02:47:03 AM
Their latest virtual virtual ship costs $600. This thing is like scientology.

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/186116/890-jump-concept-sale-plans/p1


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: UnSub on October 11, 2014, 02:50:28 AM
Again, I can't wait for day zero when SC announces the in-game requirements to unlock everything backers have paid big money to 'own' pre-launch. That will be a special day.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 11, 2014, 05:09:02 AM
Still have to watch the whole presentation, but meanwhile here's a video that shows the transition from space to planetside:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gGLE3USB2U

Still w.i.p. , but looking pretty cool. "handmade" planetside locations are amazing  :awesome_for_real:

Cutlass commercial:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14200-Unshackled-The-Drake-Cutlass


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hoax on October 11, 2014, 08:53:20 AM
Again, I can't wait for day zero when SC announces the in-game requirements to unlock everything backers have paid big money to 'own' pre-launch. That will be a special day.

No amount of grind will be enough punishment in the eyes of the true believer.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on October 11, 2014, 09:03:56 AM
Still have to watch the whole presentation, but meanwhile here's a video that shows the transition from space to planetside:


I would have liked to see what that looks like entirely from the first person perspective. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Brolan on October 12, 2014, 07:40:35 AM
This is still a thing?  I'm too busy playing Starpoint Gemini 2.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on October 12, 2014, 07:38:29 PM
How dare you spend money on a game that actually made it to release.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 13, 2014, 01:51:55 AM
Watched the entire presentation on Twitch (it's around 2 hours long, but that also include the delay at the beginning and some downtime here and there) . I think that, all things considered, it was decently put together: a comprehensive video report from all the studios, recapping the progress that has been done during the previous year, and for each studios, what's in store in the short-mid term. 

The opening location of the single-player campaign, Shubin Mining Station, was particularly impressive: a 6 km long structure, with (supposedly) very detailed interiors; it's still in the "grey-boxing" status, but it already looks impressive. But yeah, the highlight was definitely the space-to-planetside (plus a nice walk around the ArcCorp district and shops) sequence I linked in my previous message.

Anyway, here's the link to the presentation:

http://www.twitch.tv/starcitizen/b/576890938


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on October 13, 2014, 02:32:40 AM
The youtube video you linked looked technically very impressive.  Maybe too much so.  I wonder at the specs of the machine that will have to run that thing.  The movement of the avatar didn't look very crisp either, which makes me wonder at the frame rate their own uber machine was achieving (although that could be the video clip itself, but other clips don't give me that impression). 

That said, if they can pull of that kind of detail, I would want to play it just as a tech demo if nothing else.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 15, 2014, 11:31:26 AM
CitizenCon 2014: Persistent Universe Demo (http://youtu.be/o-xvCg8CI9U)

Here is the demo without the streaming software running over top.

EDIT: All player animations, and rig is slated for replacement.


I would have liked to see what that looks like entirely from the first person perspective. 

There you go.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maven on October 15, 2014, 11:54:26 AM
Game's not even out yet and already has a con?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 15, 2014, 11:59:47 AM
Game's not even out yet and already has a con?

The word "con" is pretty important to truly achieving enlightenment.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 15, 2014, 12:53:47 PM
For those who might be curious but don't want to sit through the entire livestream, CIG released the individual studio video reports:

- CIG Santa Monica (mainly Arena Commander stuff, which also means dogfighting in general, including HUDs) - Link (http://youtu.be/obesvDsMSwA)

- CIG Austin (mainly Persistent Universe, network operations and helping on AC as well): Link (http://youtu.be/zxPdQi8lL1M) ; interesting note: the current PU director is Toni Zurovec, who was the creator of the "Crusader" franchise at Origin and among those who worked on the NPC schedules in Ultima VII (something he wants to implement in the SC planetside locations...the schedules, I mean, not Ultima VII :P) ;

- CIG Manchester UK (or "Foundry 42"; single-player campaign, cap ships creation, also helping on AC):  Link (http://youtu.be/lUDfQjGVmn4) - Led by Chris Roberts' brother, Erin; core team is basically formed by those who originally created Privateer 2 and Starlancer ;

- Turbulent Studios, Montreal (web platform): Link (http://youtu.be/cTLcd5FDUwg) ;

- Behaviour Interactive, Montreal (hangars, concept and implementation of planetside locations, various other stuff): Link (http://youtu.be/5ifJ_ovpA_A) ;

The only other studio which is not mentioned is Illfonic: they'll be officially presented at PAX Australia during their presentation of the "FPS" features of the game.

Current employee tally (mentioned by Chris Roberts not so long ago) : around 280


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on October 15, 2014, 01:19:50 PM
Well that's kind of cool.  By dividing up the different aspects of the game between all sorts of teams scattered around the world, people can make all sorts of nationalist/political/racist comments over the various parts of the game that suck compared to others.  I actually wish more companies would do this!

 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maven on October 15, 2014, 01:21:02 PM
I'm looking forward to when they merge the code. Surely nothing can go wrong there.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on October 15, 2014, 07:32:34 PM
Google translate, and Google meters <-> feet, easy peasy.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 16, 2014, 09:09:40 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/ZyeLVgE.png)


I'm looking forward to when they merge the code. Surely nothing can go wrong there.

That's already been happening all along. Just FYI.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 16, 2014, 10:09:29 AM
MrBloodworth, without trying to re-open an argument, I have a honest question for you that has nothing to do with the final quality of the product, which we all hope it'll be great.

So here's the question: considering that you, as me and everyone else here, have been following games for around thirty years and have seen literally everything happening, and have read about the next incredible game about a million times, WHY are you believing everything you read about Star Citizen?

Mind, the question is not about the state of the game or anything. None of us work at CIG so none of us knows how things really are, and none of us can see the future so everything they say *could* be true but also not true. But how come you hold no skepticism at all in this particular instance, considering lots of the things they are promising and claiming to be working on are extremely ambitious?

And we are back to my question: how come YOU (and some others, but I am asking you) how come you have no skepticism at all and believe everything they say and publish so completely? I wish I had your faith, so here I'm asking. How come, even with all your experience in the field, you chose to believe everything they are hyping this particular one time? I am genuinely curious and not in a trollish way.


And please PLEASE don't tell me "this guy made good games twenty years ago".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 17, 2014, 07:23:37 AM
MrBloodworth, without trying to re-open an argument, I have a honest question for you that has nothing to do with the final quality of the product, which we all hope it'll be great.

So here's the question: considering that you, as me and everyone else here, have been following games for around thirty years and have seen literally everything happening, and have read about the next incredible game about a million times, WHY are you believing everything you read about Star Citizen?

Mind, the question is not about the state of the game or anything. None of us work at CIG so none of us knows how things really are, and none of us can see the future so everything they say *could* be true but also not true. But how come you hold no skepticism at all in this particular instance, considering lots of the things they are promising and claiming to be working on are extremely ambitious?

And we are back to my question: how come YOU (and some others, but I am asking you) how come you have no skepticism at all and believe everything they say and publish so completely? I wish I had your faith, so here I'm asking. How come, even with all your experience in the field, you chose to believe everything they are hyping this particular one time? I am genuinely curious and not in a trollish way.


And please PLEASE don't tell me "this guy made good games twenty years ago".


You misinterpret me. I Have my skepticism, I just no longer voice them here. Its pointless, there would be no conversation to be had.  I have always enjoyed talking about things, instead of just being cynical. Being cynical is easy, infinitely easy compared to creating something.  Also, just because I don't inflate my criticisms to the heights some here do, does not man I have none. I also understand, some of the greatest games ever, were also some of the most ambitious.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 17, 2014, 09:57:35 AM
Thanks for the reply. I asked what I asked because it seems to me that everytime someone (cynically, easily) raises some doubts, you respond with some official CIG claims, and I don't understand how those claims hold any validity in your opinion. But again, thanks for clarifying a bit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 17, 2014, 12:01:32 PM
If you want transparency on one hand, but dismiss the info coming out of that transparency in the other. Well, I can't help you.

The idea that "code merge" happens only at the end, is just false. I have the client on my machine, that client has elements already in and integrated from all the development houses. It's right in front of me. No one at CIG needed to tell me this. Even if they have in the weekly (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVct2QDhDrB290jDIeV9fTTq-X8Kt49nX) and monthly reports (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14054-Monthly-Report-July-2014).

Malakili wanted to see the demo from only first person, the video I linked, was run without the streaming software over top ( removing a ton of the hitching ), and happened to be all in first person.   :headscratch:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on October 17, 2014, 03:50:36 PM
Its pointless, there would be no conversation to be had.  
Ha, we've got terabytes of threads that say otherwise  :grin:

In all seriousness, I've always loved how each game that comes through here gets at least one ambassador.

Video looked purdy.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on October 18, 2014, 02:06:24 PM
I've always loved how each game that comes through here gets at least one ambassador.

Otherwise it doesn't come through here, no?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on October 18, 2014, 04:53:22 PM
I've always loved how each game that comes through here gets at least one ambassador.

Otherwise it doesn't come through here, no?

Thank you Schrödinger, I meant someone who covers it as a subject matter expert  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Montague on October 24, 2014, 08:36:12 PM
So the studio that's working on the "FPS module" of SC had an AMA on Reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2k7kuu/we_are_the_star_citizen_fps_team_ask_us_anything/

The snake oil is turned up to 11. Just a taste of it here:

Quote
Can you provide an example of the kind of gameplay experience you're looking for? Maybe a description of what an encounter between two players might be like in terms of lethality, weapons used, moves used, length of play, etc?

There are so many. lets just pull one randomly from the sky. A Persistent Universe experience. I'm a stealthy, solo player. I find a wrecked ship, i know scavengers will be around soon. I find a crate and put myself in it. I let the scavengers take the crate and put me in their ship. When i'm on their ship, some time later, i get out of the crate. Very quietly, i rummage around and find some goodies i like. I steal those... now i can either - A) Jump out the airlock and call a ride or B) go to their engine room and self destruct their ship or C) quietly hunt and execute the entire staff and take their ship.... or Z) they could have scanned the crate properly before loading it, blasted it with their ship and me with it....

And here...

Quote
What games are you drawing mechanical inspiration from?

A mixture of Counter-Strike, Rainbow Six, Arma, Delta Force, Kill Zone



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Goreschach on October 24, 2014, 08:53:53 PM
All that crate hiding, and they didn't even mention MGS? Disappoint.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on October 25, 2014, 01:35:01 AM
I do find the thought of endless naive players excitedly hiding themselves in boxes, waiting for hours on end for SOMEBODY to please take them, highly amusing.  Especially the moment they realize that every scavenger crew just opens all the boxes and executes anybody they find before hauling the loot.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on October 25, 2014, 02:19:48 AM
It's going to be the best FPS game and the best stealth game, in addition to being the best space game.

I'm pretty sure at this point if someone asked "will there be kart racing?" they'd end up promising to deliver kart racing in which you can build your karts from scratch in a fully operational workshop.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ezrast on October 25, 2014, 05:44:55 AM
Will there be catapults?

What can we put in our catapults?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 25, 2014, 07:13:08 AM
maybe this will come out and be an ok space sim idk


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on October 25, 2014, 07:31:08 AM
Quote
I'm a stealthy, solo player. I find a wrecked ship, i know scavengers will be around soon. I find a crate and put myself in it. I let the scavengers take the crate and put me in their ship. When i'm on their ship, some time later, i get out of the crate. Very quietly, i rummage around and find some goodies i like. I steal those... now i can either - A) Jump out the airlock and call a ride or B) go to their engine room and self destruct their ship or C) quietly hunt and execute the entire staff and take their ship.... or Z) they could have scanned the crate properly before loading it, blasted it with their ship and me with it....

I mean, there's a 0% chance something like this ends up in the game right?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Brolan on October 25, 2014, 08:31:26 AM
Quote
I'm a stealthy, solo player. I find a wrecked ship, i know scavengers will be around soon. I find a crate and put myself in it. I let the scavengers take the crate and put me in their ship. When i'm on their ship, some time later, i get out of the crate. Very quietly, i rummage around and find some goodies i like. I steal those... now i can either - A) Jump out the airlock and call a ride or B) go to their engine room and self destruct their ship or C) quietly hunt and execute the entire staff and take their ship.... or Z) they could have scanned the crate properly before loading it, blasted it with their ship and me with it....

I mean, there's a 0% chance something like this ends up in the game right?
Not only that, but it's proof, to me at least, these people are perpetrators of a fraud.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on October 25, 2014, 09:28:44 AM
Again, I still don't think its fraud/scam.  Just people with glory in their eyes and blinded to how hard pulling something like that off actually is.  They sound just like the Horizon's guys in early development, who I also feel really believed in what they were doing.

Is there a word for the Fraud equivalent of Manslaughter/Criminally Negligent?  Now that might be appropriate.   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Nija on October 25, 2014, 09:41:31 AM
maybe this will come out and be an ok space sim idk

Nope.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maven on October 25, 2014, 09:46:50 AM
Imagine you can land on a planet featuring a thriving economy. You enter a brothel because your Randy meter is getting high. Now, you face some interesting decisions. Do you a) pay the mistress for the three-breasted prostitute b) sneak up the side of the building and observe unannounced c) bring your security detail to claim all the women before an immediate evacuation?

If you choose a female avatar, we'll add a Hitachi shower head to your virtual bathroom.

Edit: Pft, should have went with the obvious. CIG opens new studio in Japan to add Dating Sim module.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on October 25, 2014, 10:39:03 AM
I rather just ... buy ships to sell ships to buy more ships to sell ships when the game is out.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 25, 2014, 03:47:30 PM
interestingly investments backed by potential future pixel starships is still more of a backing than bitcoin so i should consider expanding my portfolio into star citizen futures


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on October 25, 2014, 04:13:15 PM
Anyone who doesn't read item "C" on that list and immediately cry bullshit deserves to be fleeced.

Yes, you'll kill everyone, because Voice Comms, In-game channels and group health indicators aren't a thing.

Don't even try to say, "Well they're talking NPCs" because that's clearly a PVP comment, as the question asked was about the leathality between players.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Job601 on October 25, 2014, 05:09:45 PM
You guys clearly didn't read the AMA closely enough.  It's going to be the best FPS ever because it's going to be so realistic!  If you get shot in the arm you won't be able to use your gun,  but it's ok because you can get a cyber arm, but watch out, because some weapons get +1 against cyber arms.  I don't know what happens to your cyber arm if you die and respawn.  Do you get to respawn in this game? 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 25, 2014, 06:02:46 PM
it's also going to be the greatest jrpg guys

greatest. jrpg.

it'll also branch that element of gameplay off to the 3DS


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hoax on October 25, 2014, 11:00:10 PM
Seriously this is like a giant joke.

The Horizons comparison is very apt. Its exactly like that except even less realistic.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on October 26, 2014, 04:43:13 AM
Anyone who doesn't read item "C" on that list and immediately cry bullshit deserves to be fleeced.

Yes, you'll kill everyone, because Voice Comms, In-game channels and group health indicators aren't a thing.

Don't even try to say, "Well they're talking NPCs" because that's clearly a PVP comment, as the question asked was about the leathality between players.

"C" especially doesn't make sense if you're talking PVP. How would you steal somebody's ship? Don't most of the backer's have some sort of lifetime insurance on their ships that will replace it if something happens? But the ship isn't destroyed here so if one player gets to keep the ship he stole, and the other player gets a replacement ship then it becomes an easy way to duplicate ships. This kind of thing seems like one of the many potential issues you get when everybody is working on different parts of the game and nobody seems to be thinking about how the game as a whole actually works.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lantyssa on October 26, 2014, 07:06:12 AM
The ship gets replaced, but all the weapons, systems, and stuff inside don't.  Still a potential problem, but it's not entirely end-of-the-galaxy stuff.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on October 26, 2014, 07:28:42 AM
Yes, you'll kill everyone, because Voice Comms, In-game channels and group health indicators aren't a thing.
No, no. You kill everyone because you're the stealthy lone wolf type while they're just clueless carebears with no skill.

They may be crazy, but credit where it's due, they do know how to fellate their investors right to the verge of another donation.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on October 26, 2014, 09:22:38 AM
I'm pretty sure at this point if someone asked "will there be kart racing?" they'd end up promising to deliver kart racing in which you can build your karts from scratch in a fully operational workshop.

I'm pretty sure there are videos of a spaceship racing mode they implemented (or are working on).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Nija on October 26, 2014, 02:11:14 PM
If you guys want unrealistic, the the document you're looking for was the Ultima Online site before the redesign.

The FAQ was insane. I wish I had a copy of it. Does anyone have one?

This is the document that said something about if you kill sheeps around Trinsic, the dragons from Destard would come out and move in toward the city to find things to eat.

I don't think the game described in that document has been made to this date.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on October 26, 2014, 05:14:49 PM
Raph has mentioned in the long ago past they had that in the early alpha or something and it was too problematic.  Having no respawn of mobs meant players destroyed the whole ecosystem within a day.  So they took that out and dropped it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ruvaldt on October 26, 2014, 09:14:34 PM
I remember a lot of that stuff ending up in the paperback strategy guide that was released at the same time as the game.  I should dig it up out of one of my boxes of old books sometime.  It contained a lot of information that was clearly not in the game, but was probably around during some period of testing.  NPCs having likes and dislikes was one of them, including the possibility that they could become attracted to PCs.  Quite a few pages of the strategy guide were given over to what different varieties of NPCs liked or disliked as if it was some kind of sketchy npc dating service.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on October 26, 2014, 09:43:41 PM
Does it include blood type and astrological sign?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 27, 2014, 10:04:46 AM
Raph has mentioned in the long ago past they had that in the early alpha or something and it was too problematic.  Having no respawn of mobs meant players destroyed the whole ecosystem within a day.  So they took that out and dropped it.

Imagine that, early design ideas getting tempered during development. That's just crazy I tell you, CRAZY.

"C" especially doesn't make sense if you're talking PVP. How would you steal somebody's ship? Don't most of the backer's have some sort of lifetime insurance on their ships that will replace it if something happens? But the ship isn't destroyed here so if one player gets to keep the ship he stole, and the other player gets a replacement ship then it becomes an easy way to duplicate ships. This kind of thing seems like one of the many potential issues you get when everybody is working on different parts of the game and nobody seems to be thinking about how the game as a whole actually works.

Or, the dear reader doesn't know how theft is proposed to work.

The stolen ship is marked as stolen,  disallowing entry into protected areas ( By force of policing ), and also generating bounty missions, and can only be sold at pirate bases, No insurance claim until its destroyed ( And even then, Hull, Guns, Mods, and Cargo are all different insurances ). Not to mention, even the act of doing a boarding move will require:

Quote
Players can dock to other ships and board and capture them, though there are two limitations on docking.

1) The target ship must be completely disabled before it can be boarded.

2) Docking requires the attacking player to dedicate credits and slots to several gate technologies, including a docking collar and a tractor beam.

In Star Citizen, the player needs to knock down the enemy ships’ shields and then (without causing a hull breach) pick off the individual thrusters before being able to dock and board them.

Also note that docking mechanics do not apply to ships with a single crewman or certain smaller bombers; the general rule is that if there’s not room to walk around then only the salvage mechanic can apply to it. You need a crewed ship to board in the first place and you can only board crewed ships which are larger than your own (in crew size.)


Equipment

Tractor Beams are a dangerous technology. They take up a standard gun slot and are designed for collecting material significantly less massive than their host ship (escaped pilots, cargo pallets, bobbleheads, etc.) As such, there’s a constant danger of overloading when using them to dock, especially with cheaper models. Additionally, they require that the target ship be absolutely disabled – firing a tractor beam at a ship that still has functional thrusters will overload it and severely damage the attacker.

A docking collar is needed to attach ships together. As with tractor beams, different levels are available which will allow connections to different sizes of ships; boarding something large like a carrier is much easier than something your own size, like a Constellation (disabling another Constellation's thrusters will require a crack shot, to say the least, and a much more accurate collar.)

Collarless external ship combat will also be added with pilots in pressure suits wearing EMUs able to battle it out in space; explosive charges would be used to open the targeted ship's airlock.

The standard VDU will not identify whether or not a ship is completely disabled; it will have a gut feel/skill element to it. Higher software upgrades will provide more in-depth scans of a target that will give you a better assurance that no maneuvering remains in place for a price.

Combat

Once a ship has successfully tractored in a target vessel, it will dock at a pre-determined location on the hull (ie, you will always dock at one of the same doors on the Constellation.) There will be a 30-second period where the attacking player cuts open the target’s door. The defender can use that time to set up to fire back.

Players will have access to a variety of upgrades to help/hinder boarding operations. Armored space suits, hand scanners, explosives, more powerful (or functionally different) weapons and so on will be available to players on both sides of the equations.

Defending players will have upgrade options that can help put the battle in their favor: a self destruct process, a dead man’s switch, automated miniguns they can position in the cockpit and so on. It’s going to be a challenge to get onboard a targeted ship successfully, one that you’ll need to work with your friends to accomplish.

Finally, the cost to recover a boarded ship will ultimately be high. Since you’ve disabled and otherwise crippled it in battle (and cut into the hull to board) you must conduct repairs in deep space if you wish to keep the hull rather than simply looting it… during which the ship is in danger of being boarded by a third party. Boarding parties should plan to carry an advance repair bot with them or to suffer the difficulty of flying in a depressurized cockpit (limited life support time, less responsive controls.) Finally, only one ship can be flown at once: you will need to work with a partner if you wish to keep a boarded ship and your own craft.

The above is obviously subject to change. But illustrates, Ship theft will not be a simple accomplishment. None of this applies to the smaller ships, multi-crew only.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on October 27, 2014, 10:30:22 AM
The stolen ship is marked as stolen,  disallowing entry into protected areas ( By force of policing ), and also generating bounty missions, and can only be sold at pirate bases, No insurance claim until its destroyed ( And even then, Hull, Guns, Mods, and Cargo are all different insurances ). Not to mention, even the act of doing a boarding move will require:
So, if somebody steals one of these ultra expensive rare ships, gives it to a random account that never logs in again, the original person will never be reimbursed?  Or is there some other mechanic that stops this (I'm only following this at a distance, haven't really bothered looking at the nitty gritty promises yet).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Goreschach on October 27, 2014, 10:31:40 AM
The stolen ship is marked as stolen,  disallowing entry into protected areas ( By force of policing ), and also generating bounty missions, and can only be sold at pirate bases, No insurance claim until its destroyed ( And even then, Hull, Guns, Mods, and Cargo are all different insurances ). Not to mention, even the act of doing a boarding move will require:
So, if somebody steals one of these ultra expensive rare ships, gives it to a random account that never logs in again, the original person will never be reimbursed?  Or is there some other mechanic that stops this (I'm only following this at a distance, haven't really bothered looking at the nitty gritty promises yet).

You'll be able to sue the thief for reimbursement. They'll have a Phoenix Wright minigame for it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 27, 2014, 10:32:30 AM
Quote
I'm a stealthy, solo player. I find a wrecked ship, i know scavengers will be around soon. I find a crate and put myself in it. I let the scavengers take the crate and put me in their ship. When i'm on their ship, some time later, i get out of the crate. Very quietly, i rummage around and find some goodies i like. I steal those... now i can either - A) Jump out the airlock and call a ride or B) go to their engine room and self destruct their ship or C) quietly hunt and execute the entire staff and take their ship.... or Z) they could have scanned the crate properly before loading it, blasted it with their ship and me with it....

I mean, there's a 0% chance something like this ends up in the game right?

Why? He describes a plan of emergent behavior given the tools at the players disposal, you success will obviously vary, as noted in this statement, and in Teleku 's post. He didn't describe "Press A to hide in crate and board ship **Trigger montage**.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 27, 2014, 10:37:39 AM
The stolen ship is marked as stolen,  disallowing entry into protected areas ( By force of policing ), and also generating bounty missions, and can only be sold at pirate bases, No insurance claim until its destroyed ( And even then, Hull, Guns, Mods, and Cargo are all different insurances ). Not to mention, even the act of doing a boarding move will require:
So, if somebody steals one of these ultra expensive rare ships, gives it to a random account that never logs in again, the original person will never be reimbursed?  Or is there some other mechanic that stops this (I'm only following this at a distance, haven't really bothered looking at the nitty gritty promises yet).

Ships of that size, with out a place to land, do not just "log out". Is my understanding. Subject to change, AFAIK, if you log out in space, and or disconnect, the ship will fly to the nearest port ( Unless you have a friend on board with permissions ). Extrapolate issues with that in a stolen ship. From what I understand, the smallest ship able to participate in boarding of any kind ( And thus subject to theft ) is the constellation ( 4 man ).


EDIT: I did some more digging on this question: Seems I was slightly wrong about the insurance part:

Quote
What will you do to combat insurance fraud?

A ship cannot be sold without a legitimate hull id code. Claiming on the insurance policy invalidates the hull code on your previous ship, so if it was captured or stolen the new owner will be unable to sell the ship at a regular ship dealer. Additionally if you have claimed on a policy and someone is flying the stolen ship in a well policed system, the hull id will mark it as a stolen ship, the law will be after you and landing privileges will be denied on any lawful planet. You will be able to fly a “hot” ship to the less savory parts of the Star Citizen universe, where you will probably be able to land and may be able to purchase a fake hull id code, but it will take effort and not necessarily be cheap.

Finally the Advocacy takes insurance fraud very seriously. If it can be proven that a player has colluded with another player to defraud the insurance company, that hull’s lifetime insurance will be invalidated and the player may have to pay a large amount of credits to keep their record clean and not be marked as a wanted criminal.


Extra info relevant to the conversation:
Quote
    Lifetime Insurance *
        Replaces your ship hull in the event of destruction or theft.
        Hull is replaced with an identical model in equivalent condition.
        Effective indefinitely with no additional in-game fee.
    Standard Hull Insurance *
        Replaces your ship hull in the event of destruction or theft.
        Hull is replaced with an identical model in equivalent condition.
        Effective for a set period of time: currently one, three or six months.
        Must be renewed with in-game credits once expired.

* Insurance claims may be denied in cases of proven fraud.

Quote
Can I use my insurance as an excuse to simply ram other ships to death knowing I will get my ship back?

You can, but this will be a very bad idea as it is inconvenient and time consuming in getting your replacement ship ready to go again. Additionally there will be an increasing delay in replacing your ship every time you make a claim within a certain period of time.


If most of this holds though development, simply put, Ship theft will be a rare, highly specialized ( Required equipment and ships ) activity with some hefty risks involved. No honor among thieves.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on October 27, 2014, 11:23:11 AM

Why? He describes a plan of emergent behavior given the tools at the players disposal, you success will obviously vary, as noted in this statement, and in Teleku 's post. He didn't describe "Press A to hide in crate and board ship **Trigger montage**.

I'm frankly not convinced those "tools" will actually be at a player's disposal.

Here's things that have to be true for those "tools" to be present, as near as I can tell.

1) The ability to hide in crates that are then physically moved on to someone's ship.  

2) The ability to have yourself not show up on the enemy players hud if you are in said crate.

3) The ability to sneak around a ship killing people while there is no alert at all for anyone else on the ship.

4) The ability to have the cargo of a ship accessible to anyone who is on that ship.  Which, when combined with the earlier part about crates being moved around would imply an inventory system unlike anything we've ever seen.


It all just sounds so much like a scene from a movie and not like a game actually plays.  Keywords being game and plays.

I'm not saying it sounds like a cinematic, I'm saying that actually implementing the systems that allow for that kind of experience is 1) probably impossible in the first place and 2) probably going to make for a shitty GAMEPLAY experience if somehow some version of it actually is possible.  I can just imagine how much a playerbase is going to love not being able to realize their entire party is being slowly assassinated by a stowaway, for example.  

You can't just handwave it away with "oh, they never said it will be EASY" to do all that.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on October 27, 2014, 11:27:23 AM
The problem is the information. As soon as somebody is dead, guess what? They type to the other people that they died, or the game indicates it. The jig is up.

That's assuming they can work out crates at all, which sounds like a lot of resources. Blizzard ran into problems with people just keeping items in their bank. Let alone tracking every crate in the galaxy.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on October 27, 2014, 11:44:15 AM
MBW, that whole process of docking with a ship you descrube sounds both awesome and unlikely to exist in a game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 27, 2014, 11:44:51 AM
I'm frankly not convinced those "tools" will actually be at a player's disposal.

Here's things that have to be true for those "tools" to be present, as near as I can tell.

1) The ability to hide in crates that are then physically moved on to someone's ship.  

2) The ability to have yourself not show up on the enemy players hud if you are in said crate.

3) The ability to sneak around a ship killing people while there is no alert at all for anyone else on the ship.

4) The ability to have the cargo of a ship accessible to anyone who is on that ship.  Which, when combined with the earlier part about crates being moved around would imply an inventory system unlike anything we've ever seen.

1) Not that hard. Initiate action to enter crate, player becomes "contents". Ships already have cells ( As in prison ) in them that resemble stasis chambers or crates ( Not all passengers get comply seats ), as part of the bounty system ( Lethal and non )
2) Not sure how huds work, other than they are helm based, no helm, no hud, but Mobiglass is indeed used to scan yourself and others for conditions. So as others have said, yeah, smarter crews would scan or open first. Then again, maybe they don't have time ( Incoming UEE ).
3) I agree, VOIP would make this imposable most times, at least to not know. Then again, some ships, like the Idris have huge crews and a huge amount of space inside of them. We also do not know if there are any versions of armors that my have stealth tools in them. Many ship scanners and radar systems can be blocked by LOS ( They want you to have the ability to hide on an asteroid Han solo style ), it could very well extend to personal equipment too.
4) That's already how it is. They are ridged physic objects inside the ship, not just a list on XML ( Go go Multi grids ).  They are already effected by say, getting sucked out into space.

Again, is his scenario feasible? Yes, with thees discreet mechanics. Are you likely to succeed? Depends on the player and the situation.

Blizzard ran into problems with people just keeping items in their bank. Let alone tracking every crate in the galaxy.

You can't bank crates/trade goods in this game, they are physical objects. As for DB overhead/issues, we shall see.

MBW, that whole process of docking with a ship you descrube sounds both awesome and unlikely to exist in a game.

Part one has already been shown working at its early stage. Multi-crew ships, and Multi-Phis grids ( A huge accomplishment in itself ). This stuff is still a bit far out, as it needs other core systems in place. Time will tell. Keep in mind,we are seeing the sausage being made, its nowhere near a finished product.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Job601 on October 27, 2014, 12:12:58 PM
 Is it fun to sit in a crate on the off-chance that someone will load you into their ship?  What can you do, or see, while you are the contents of a crate in a database?  How do you know it's time to get out of the crate?  Is it fun to feel like you have to scan every crate you load on the million to one chance somebody's hiding in there?  People already think it's boring to wait for the guards to walk by in stealth games -- they're going to sit there as contents in a crate for hours?  What happens if your crate is stacked under another crate and you can't get out?  The question we should be asking isn't if it's technically feasible, it's if it will create fun gameplay.  The hiding in a crate scenario frankly sounds tedious.

If the boarding other ships scenario does work as described, somebody out there in space will get really good at it and they will make the game suck for everyone else.  Griefing and "emergent gameplay" go together.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 27, 2014, 12:20:29 PM
The great thing about sandboxes, its up to you as to how you want to spend your time. The best thing about free-form games is the tools, you figure out how to combine then that's fun for you. "if it will create fun gameplay." is not a question you can answer, until you try it. The core tenant of iterative design.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on October 27, 2014, 12:24:33 PM
So it's Eve to the nth degree.

Yes, if it's possible, people WILL wait there forever just to gank the one idiot who pulls them onboard. Or create bots to do it. Never doubt the insane levels internet killers will go to just to ruin someone's day. Go read Slayerik's gank thread in the Eve sub again sometime.

However, as described, the scenario remains bullshit. You don't get to handwave voicecoms, in-game channels or the like. They're a thing and you can control only those being in your game or not. By leaving them out, players will go to out of game sources and bypass all your careful planning.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 27, 2014, 12:27:00 PM
No one hand-waved anything, in fact, they were not mentioned. Again, you are treating an off the cuff scenario, that, while feasible. Is not a direct set in stone feature. Its just a scenario presented based on the back of discrete features. To ping them for not bringing up every possible outcome to an answer to an AMA that ASKED for a lofty goal is, well, that's a level of cynicism all your own, and a boogeyman of your own creation.

Especially one that's kind of a given in ANY game. People use VOIP.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on October 27, 2014, 12:31:16 PM
Is it fun to sit in a crate on the off-chance that someone will load you into their ship?  What can you do, or see, while you are the contents of a crate in a database?  How do you know it's time to get out of the crate?  Is it fun to feel like you have to scan every crate you load on the million to one chance somebody's hiding in there?  People already think it's boring to wait for the guards to walk by in stealth games -- they're going to sit there as contents in a crate for hours?  What happens if your crate is stacked under another crate and you can't get out?  The question we should be asking isn't if it's technically feasible, it's if it will create fun gameplay.  The hiding in a crate scenario frankly sounds tedious.

If the boarding other ships scenario does work as described, somebody out there in space will get really good at it and they will make the game suck for everyone else.  Griefing and "emergent gameplay" go together.

Is it fun? No. Not to me. But there are people out there that probably eat that shit up.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Goreschach on October 27, 2014, 12:32:25 PM
Why are we even still talking about this 'sim cargo loading' shit. Nobody is going to play that game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on October 27, 2014, 12:37:14 PM
Why are we even still talking about this 'sim cargo loading' shit. Nobody is going to play that game.

Assuming its part of the game, I bet you there will be a group of people who do that all day long. How do you not think that assuming the game launches with any amount of success.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Goreschach on October 27, 2014, 12:40:50 PM
Why are we even still talking about this 'sim cargo loading' shit. Nobody is going to play that game.

Assuming its part of the game, I bet you there will be a group of people who do that all day long. How do you not think that assuming the game launches with any amount of success.

Yeah, they're called chinese people, and you have to pay them.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 27, 2014, 12:42:30 PM
If the boarding other ships scenario does work as described, somebody out there in space will get really good at it and they will make the game suck for everyone else.  Griefing and "emergent gameplay" go together.

I play Archage, I know that every-time I go into open waters, or a red factions port, my boat can be  ( and has been ) stolen, and destroyed. Was I Griefed?



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on October 27, 2014, 12:44:06 PM
Why are we even still talking about this 'sim cargo loading' shit. Nobody is going to play that game.

Assuming its part of the game, I bet you there will be a group of people who do that all day long. How do you not think that assuming the game launches with any amount of success.

Yeah, they're called chinese people, and you have to pay them.

Cottage industries. Like mining in SWG.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 27, 2014, 12:45:34 PM
Why are we even still talking about this 'sim cargo loading' shit. Nobody is going to play that game.

Assuming its part of the game, I bet you there will be a group of people who do that all day long. How do you not think that assuming the game launches with any amount of success.

Yeah, they're called chinese people, and you have to pay them.

Or, enterprising players. Also paid. ( And given a ton of trust, lol )


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 27, 2014, 12:56:27 PM
When your boat is destroyed in Archeage you pay a few coins to repair it. How is it in Star Citizen? Is it like EvE, where you lose the whole ship, or like WoW, where you pay a small amount to repair your armour?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 27, 2014, 01:00:47 PM
When your boat is destroyed in Archeage you pay a few coins to repair it. How is it in Star Citizen? Is it like EvE, where you lose the whole ship, or like WoW, where you pay a small amount to repair your armour?

Depends on insurance, no hull insurance, no replacement. Buy another. Have insurance? Get the hull back in a like condition. Mods, cargo, and weaponry are different insurances ( In fact, Cargo insurance is based on Value + Submitted flight plan ).  My AA scenario, is akin to have insurance in SC. I got the ship back, but still had to sink costs in to get it back to snuff ( As in, buying new mods and equipment ).

EDIT: Also, what boat do you have that's only a few coins? Mine costs anywhere around 32g to fix....

And yes, Ship hulls in Star citizen decay and weather over time. Here is a user who took whats already in the client ( but not used in Arena commander ), and speed up the decay.

Star Citizen - Accelerated Weathered Effects Over time - Constellation  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjcCi6_jTLw)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 27, 2014, 01:01:37 PM
They should totally charge real money for space ship insurance.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 27, 2014, 01:03:46 PM
They should totally charge real money for space ship insurance.  :why_so_serious:

I suppose, in a round about way, that's possible. You are allowed to buy in-game currency up-to a set amount for a time frame. Insurance is paid with in-game credits.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on October 27, 2014, 01:04:29 PM
So some of these guys who spent hundreds (thousands?) of dollars on internet spaceships can have said ships irrevocably destroyed? The tears will be glorious.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 27, 2014, 01:04:57 PM
So some of these guys who spent hundreds (thousands?) of dollars on internet spaceships can have said ships irrevocably destroyed? The tears will be glorious.

Yes. In fact, some ships, in the Thousands category, Can never dock, and must always be manned.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on October 27, 2014, 01:07:20 PM
I still think the technical issues are really what's in play here.  I don't care if the game is a sandbox and people can be griefed or even if the game is fun.  I just think the situation as described is entirely unlikely to ever actually be possible in the game.  Or, if something in that vein is possible the actual experience of doing it will be entirely like you imagine the thing being that he described.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 27, 2014, 01:09:25 PM
There was a scenario that was tossed out a while back, that if you one and only ship gets destroyed. You would need to find credits to fund your new ride, as you are now likely stuck on that planet/station, opening up the possibility of shopping yourself out as crew, or buying passage, ETC... Because your hangar, is in a physical location in the world somewhere, ALA Eve.  I find that compelling.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 27, 2014, 01:12:13 PM
I still think the technical issues are really what's in play here.  I don't care if the game is a sandbox and people can be griefed or even if the game is fun.  I just think the situation as described is entirely unlikely to ever actually be possible in the game.  Or, if something in that vein is possible the actual experience of doing it will be entirely like you imagine the thing being that he described.

Would definitely put you in the "bad ass" category, and be great for a streams popularity. If the planets aligned, oh so many things to go wrong in that situation, for sure.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hoax on October 27, 2014, 03:24:05 PM
I'm shocked that Star Citizen isn't promising an economy so robust that you can pay your own IRL rent and food costs just by playing Star Citizen if you are smart and savvy enough.

Yet. I'm sure they will if we give them another couple of months.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on October 27, 2014, 03:39:50 PM
Have a look at every game ever made in history MBW. Do they collectively have the proposed features of this game? No.

Why are you so insane.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on October 27, 2014, 05:53:34 PM
Will there be catapults?

What can we put in our catapults?

Beat me to it by two days, you bastard.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on October 27, 2014, 06:02:13 PM
Will there be catapults?

What can we put in our catapults?

Beat me to it by two days, you bastard.   :awesome_for_real:

It turns out the answer is crates with people in them.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ezrast on October 27, 2014, 06:15:53 PM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11780032/HolyGrail070Trojanrabbitaloft.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on October 27, 2014, 07:23:34 PM
I'm shocked that Star Citizen isn't promising an economy so robust that you can pay your own IRL rent and food costs just by playing Star Citizen if you are smart and savvy enough.

Yet. I'm sure they will if we give them another couple of months.

You should ask this question on their forums.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on October 27, 2014, 07:26:32 PM
Can I start a hotel business on my super luxury liner?  :why_so_serious:
There's a space jacuzzi too.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on October 27, 2014, 08:23:57 PM
There was a scenario that was tossed out a while back, that if you one and only ship gets destroyed. You would need to find credits to fund your new ride, as you are now likely stuck on that planet/station, opening up the possibility of shopping yourself out as crew, or buying passage, ETC... Because your hangar, is in a physical location in the world somewhere, ALA Eve.  I find that compelling.

The history of MMOs has proven that 99% of the players do not find that compelling.  Even shadowbane had trouble with guilds having any motivation to start over once their guild cities got destroyed in a siege, and that's not nearly as punishing to the players as what you are saying they are proposing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on October 28, 2014, 02:01:36 AM
Quote
Finally the Advocacy takes insurance fraud very seriously. If it can be proven that a player has colluded with another player to defraud the insurance company, that hull’s lifetime insurance will be invalidated and the player may have to pay a large amount of credits to keep their record clean and not be marked as a wanted criminal.

So what I'm taking away from all those walls of text is that yes, insurance fraud is possible but of course they are going to have a great live team that's totally going to catch anybody trying it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on October 28, 2014, 05:46:25 AM
It's like life.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Brolan on October 28, 2014, 06:23:55 AM
I want to be able to create a pizza store and sell pizza in the stations and to incoming ships.  I also want this to be full featured as to keep track of the price of pepperoni and the tastes of my customers. I also want a good deal of attention paid to dough elasticity.  Can this be done?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hutch on October 28, 2014, 09:07:06 AM
Can you hand-toss a pizza in space?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 28, 2014, 09:23:09 AM
Have a look at every game ever made in history MBW. Do they collectively have the proposed features of this game? No.

Why are you so insane.

They were also not the most crowed funded anything in history, nor launched with out a publisher setting goals/requirements, nor were they an open development that takes feedback at every point. People back this game because its the space game most of us have always wanted. That's kinda powerful, and grants the ability to develop something like has not been done before. It was said to be ambitious before a single dollar was accepted, and that has been reiterated a million times in all the developer output, and it shows no real sign of stopping. The support this game has, and the progress shown on live-streams, weekly and monthly reports, and the client on your machine have everything to do with its popularity. Its not an accident its continually backed, IMO they have earned every bit of it.

EDIT: Further, I think things like Around the verse, puts a real human face to this development that's mostly lacking in many other developments. While many of you may respond as if the people on this team walk and talk like some sort of rock-stars promising the world, the transparency shows that they are all extreamly humble and when things change they give the reasons. They even do a segment EVERY WEEK that spends a good 15-30 minutes showing and fixing a bug, complete with code before and afters and insight into the process. (http://youtu.be/7EjOKpbBDlo?t=19m47s) Those are community bugs or just general bugs. This is powerful stuff that builds trust, and again, fuels a large amount of the backing. Perhaps the initial bump was simply nostalgia and Chris Roberts name, but I can't say that's the case anymore. To ignore this stuff is a mistake.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: WayAbvPar on October 28, 2014, 10:28:23 AM
(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111125211139/mugen/images/d/de/Kool-aid-mobile-wallpaper.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on October 28, 2014, 10:33:10 AM
Oh look another instance of F13 bashing a community member for being somewhat realistic somewhat fanboy about a game.

God forbid.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 28, 2014, 10:39:36 AM
Oh look another instance of F13 bashing a community member for being somewhat realistic somewhat fanboy about a game.

God forbid.
Bitch please, much as I personally love Bloodworth and his incredible ability to back the wrong horse, to imply that it's unfair to poopoo on any Star Citizen fanboyishness is ridiculous.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on October 28, 2014, 11:22:09 AM
I don't know, It doesn't really feel like Mr. B is into fanboy territory. It feels more like he is just really hopeful that he will get a game he has always wanted. There is no reason why we can't disagree with Mr. B without personally ripping on him.

For the record I still believe Star Citizen is a scam.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 28, 2014, 11:42:17 AM
I am sorry for what look like personal attacks. I hate all kinds of bullyisms and I trust that everyone who has been here for long enough know how to discern between pack mentality and personal opinions, and  at any rate is experienced enought to know how to defend themselves from anything. Otherwise they would have probably left this place a long time ago.

My problem with MrB. in this instance, as I said before (and in my opinion what makes him look crazy), is that he is not expressing any caution in his support for the vision. And since the vision is long from being proven that's like being excited about a new religion and defending its message.

When it comes to the only two people in this thread who aren't extremely cynical about Star Citizen, Lucas is the one who just reports news, while MrB is the one who believes all of them.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 28, 2014, 01:51:41 PM
I entered "newsbot" mode on this thread (but I've been probably growing a certain fetish about being a newsbot, as you can probably see in other threads :P) because, from time to time, it enters in a cycle of repetitive "it's a scam!" posts (but yeah, it will stay so 'til at least Squadron 42 gets released, I know) that I don't find particularly engaging; infact, I actually found the last page and half or so quite nice with the discussion about boarding and "emergent gameplay" behaviour.

Now, the scenario portrayed by the FPS developer is undoubtedly far fetched, just like the utopia about roleplaying we (well, me, at least :P) had before 1997 when we theoryzed about living as a full-time merchant in UO or making money just escorting PC caravans :P.

That doesn't exclude the possibility of other cool scenarios, of course (with other, more unpleasant ones coming with them, yeah).
---

I'll try to post a more detailed review of the current status of Arena Commander (including the racing mode) within the mid of next week: tomorrow, bar any delay, they'll release an important patch that will affect the flight model once again and should be quite important for joystick/hotas users like me).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on October 28, 2014, 03:06:30 PM
Oh look another instance of F13 bashing a community member for being somewhat realistic somewhat fanboy about a game.

God forbid.

Please. I asked a serious question rhetorically and then went a little hyperbole, I'm not going the man.

There are some serious and worrying delusions around Star Citizen and I don't think brushing them all off with 'you just hate fans' is at all accurate.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Kail on October 28, 2014, 04:07:57 PM
Oh look another instance of F13 bashing a community member for being somewhat realistic somewhat fanboy about a game.

God forbid.

Please. I asked a serious question rhetorically and then went a little hyperbole, I'm not going the man.

There are some serious and worrying delusions around Star Citizen and I don't think brushing them all off with 'you just hate fans' is at all accurate.

Yeah, honestly I'd rather there was discussion/arguing rather than just pages of "yes, I agree" regardless of which side it's on.  As long as the people involved know what they're talking about (and BW does seem pretty well informed) and we're not degenerating into personal attacks, I like reading this kind of thing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 28, 2014, 04:11:52 PM
The one thing that's so worrying about SC so far is that it is orders of magnitude higher on the Scope Creep threat list than anything I can recall seeing. It's clocking in at 224.4 Molyneuxes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on October 28, 2014, 05:06:20 PM
The one thing that's so worrying about SC so far is that it is orders of magnitude higher on the Scope Creep threat list than anything I can recall seeing. It's clocking in at 224.4 Molyneuxes.

It reminds me of Darkfall. Except, instead of being self-funded by lazy nerds targeting teenagers it is being directed by hard working con-artists targeting affluent adult-children. They're selling the idea of a life-substitute, which is broken in its basic premise, and deliberately taking as much money from those whose circumstances make them unable to recognise this situation.

I think it is disgustingly reprehensible, and I think that talking about 'the game' is an absurd and dangerous deflection. There isn't a game. It's a work of fiction, selling fantasy to those at risk for as much money as possible. I don't think it is good natured delusion on the part of the developers, and I'm not going to go through any of their crap without pointing this out.

There's nothing wrong with being stupid and having stupid impossible ideas for a game that attracts people who have a delicate connection to reality. Ideas are fun, and dreams are fun. You only have to look at some of my posts in the game design sub-forum to see I'm as susceptible as anyone. But taking advantage of that to extract as much money from those people as possible is wrong.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on October 28, 2014, 05:22:50 PM
 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Gonna be fun watching trainwrecks.  We're past 'save the sheeps' point way long ago.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on October 28, 2014, 05:38:37 PM
Oh look another instance of F13 bashing a community member for being somewhat realistic somewhat fanboy about a game.

God forbid.
Bitch please, much as I personally love Bloodworth and his incredible ability to back the wrong horse, to imply that it's unfair to poopoo on any Star Citizen fanboyishness is ridiculous.

Bullshit. There is a difference between heckling this crazy scam and some hack attempt to belittle MrB. Anyway, the bashing is getting redundant. If you're gonna get on the bashing train, at least be original.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on October 28, 2014, 05:40:29 PM
I am sorry for what look like personal attacks. I hate all kinds of bullyisms and I trust that everyone who has been here for long enough know how to discern between pack mentality and personal opinions, and  at any rate is experienced enought to know how to defend themselves from anything. Otherwise they would have probably left this place a long time ago.

My problem with MrB. in this instance, as I said before (and in my opinion what makes him look crazy), is that he is not expressing any caution in his support for the vision. And since the vision is long from being proven that's like being excited about a new religion and defending its message.

When it comes to the only two people in this thread who aren't extremely cynical about Star Citizen, Lucas is the one who just reports news, while MrB is the one who believes all of them.

Oh come the fuck on. He wrote a novel explaining this to you like a month ago. Does he have to tag every post with some kind of caution?

Like "Here's a really interesting feature about this game that might work. Also, this game probably won't launch. Oh by the way I think insurance will work this way, seems cool. Oh, and I don't know if this will even be a game".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on October 28, 2014, 05:42:19 PM
Oh look another instance of F13 bashing a community member for being somewhat realistic somewhat fanboy about a game.

God forbid.

Please. I asked a serious question rhetorically and then went a little hyperbole, I'm not going the man.

There are some serious and worrying delusions around Star Citizen and I don't think brushing them all off with 'you just hate fans' is at all accurate.

Well shit yes. There are people on Rerolled that have spent hundreds and thousands on this and I ridicule them at every chance I get. I'm pretty sure MrB spent maybe a few bucks on this. If he's in the multiple hundreds of dollar realm, then nevermind.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on October 28, 2014, 05:54:55 PM
Oh look another instance of F13 bashing a community member for being somewhat realistic somewhat fanboy about a game.

God forbid.
Bitch please, much as I personally love Bloodworth and his incredible ability to back the wrong horse, to imply that it's unfair to poopoo on any Star Citizen fanboyishness is ridiculous.

Bullshit. There is a difference between heckling this crazy scam and some hack attempt to belittle MrB. Anyway, the bashing is getting redundant. If you're gonna get on the bashing train, at least be original.

Because once you've pointed out how crazy something is once, you should just shut up and let it go about its crazy way?

Why is it 'bashing' to call out delusions? People call each other psychos when they Sir Bruce posts, but Star Citizen cool-aid explosions should be treated differently?

I had a reasonably long post him about game mechanics and why the whole idea of this game is broken. But I think that it's completely beside the point for this game, as this game is only a thing because it is an exploitive disaster, and as far as game ideas go there is nothing interesting going on here.

Star Citizen is a kitchen sink fiction, not a real game. I'll talk about game ideas and game mechanics in other threads, where it's actually relevant.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on October 28, 2014, 06:27:51 PM
I don't care if you bash the game, it deserves it for all the reason we all know. I'm talking about dog piling on MrB because he dared to have a positive thought about it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on October 28, 2014, 06:58:26 PM
Why does it feel like every time some chancy concept comes through here, Bloodworth becomes both its ambassador and then the nature pincushion for all the hate?

Bash the message*, not the messenger.

* Such as it is.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 28, 2014, 06:59:04 PM
I am sorry for what look like personal attacks. I hate all kinds of bullyisms and I trust that everyone who has been here for long enough know how to discern between pack mentality and personal opinions, and  at any rate is experienced enought to know how to defend themselves from anything. Otherwise they would have probably left this place a long time ago.

My problem with MrB. in this instance, as I said before (and in my opinion what makes him look crazy), is that he is not expressing any caution in his support for the vision. And since the vision is long from being proven that's like being excited about a new religion and defending its message.

When it comes to the only two people in this thread who aren't extremely cynical about Star Citizen, Lucas is the one who just reports news, while MrB is the one who believes all of them.

Oh come the fuck on. He wrote a novel explaining this to you like a month ago. Does he have to tag every post with some kind of caution?

Like "Here's a really interesting feature about this game that might work. Also, this game probably won't launch. Oh by the way I think insurance will work this way, seems cool. Oh, and I don't know if this will even be a game".

Yeah he wrote a novel. And I didn't buy it. He didn't owe me an answer and I appreciated it anyway, but I didn't and don't see any caution, especially every time he writes another "novel" to defend the N-th unrealistic design promise. It's not about posting with disclaimers, it's about how much he argues with people that the Roberts bullshit is actually valid and real.

I don't think anyone here is bashing MrBloodworth, hell I am pretty sure we all like him. The bashing is for SC and Chris Roberts, and every time MrB defends them -based on nothing but hopes, dreams and press releases- he gets some collateral flak which I am sure he can handle.

Quote
I don't care if you bash the game, it deserves it for all the reason we all know. I'm talking about dog piling on MrB because he dared to have a positive thought about it.

You are particularly sensitive to the presumed dogpiling on MrB, except it doesn't exist. Different variation of ganging on people happened before on f13, and this is not even remotely one of those cases. And I am pretty sure that all the other people who had a positive thougth about Star Citizen in this thread didn't have anyone calling them insane whether in jest or not. It's that he has an alarming amount of positive thoughts about this, and while it's his prerogative to have them, it's mine and I guess someone else's to consider such a fact extremely weird. Hard not to voice it from time to time. Which is a million miles away from "dogpiling" and "bashing".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on October 29, 2014, 01:10:02 AM
He's just confusing "bashing" with "clinical interest and concern".   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on October 29, 2014, 09:20:09 AM

Yeah he wrote a novel. And I didn't buy it. He didn't owe me an answer and I appreciated it anyway, but I didn't and don't see any caution, especially every time he writes another "novel" to defend the N-th unrealistic design promise. It's not about posting with disclaimers, it's about how much he argues with people that the Roberts bullshit is actually valid and real.

I don't think anyone here is bashing MrBloodworth, hell I am pretty sure we all like him. The bashing is for SC and Chris Roberts, and every time MrB defends them -based on nothing but hopes, dreams and press releases- he gets some collateral flak which I am sure he can handle.

Quote
I don't care if you bash the game, it deserves it for all the reason we all know. I'm talking about dog piling on MrB because he dared to have a positive thought about it.

You are particularly sensitive to the presumed dogpiling on MrB, except it doesn't exist. Different variation of ganging on people happened before on f13, and this is not even remotely one of those cases. And I am pretty sure that all the other people who had a positive thougth about Star Citizen in this thread didn't have anyone calling them insane whether in jest or not. It's that he has an alarming amount of positive thoughts about this, and while it's his prerogative to have them, it's mine and I guess someone else's to consider such a fact extremely weird. Hard not to voice it from time to time. Which is a million miles away from "dogpiling" and "bashing".

I enjoy reading about updates on this game and Elite because I've been hoping for a fun Space game forever. This game's fundraising and design creep is fucking batshit crazy, we all agree on that. We've discussed it ad nauseum. However, I still enjoy reading updates about the game and the people who think it's their job to either bash anyone talking positive about the game, or remind us it's a scam every single time the thread is bumped is just old and tired.

If you don't want to believe MrB's response to you, fine, but enough already. The impression I get is that he understands all of your concerns, but he chooses to discuss design ideas anyway about the game because why not.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on October 29, 2014, 05:49:17 PM
I personally thought the description of crate-hiding gameplay was worth commenting on as it represented a whole new level of insanity. 

If you have ever played a game before and that description didn't sound insane to you, that is in itself interesting and worth commenting on, because how in the hell do you envision that actually being a thing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ezrast on October 29, 2014, 06:30:20 PM
Or a fun thing, for that matter. I don't see how anyone who has played a game before and has critical thinking skills can find that scenario compelling at all. First, sit by yourself in a crate in deep space and hope somebody finds you. Are you exhilarated yet?? Then hope they're dumb enough not to identify you and incinerate you instantly, to showcase how much skill you have! After that, engage in PvP so asymmetrical it will make your eyes bleed, because who doesn't want to be forced into hand-to-hand combat while playing a trader in a goddamn spaceship game?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on October 29, 2014, 06:31:18 PM
It's like 12 year old me explaining to my uncle that the perfect jet sim would be the one that I could fly over, hit the target, got shot by SAM, eject, and draw a pistol and hijack a Russian Mig to escape.
Now the look on their face should explain everything but I was young then and Battlefield 1942 finally came out.
Who's laughing now, bitches?  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hoax on October 29, 2014, 09:39:24 PM
Or a fun thing, for that matter. I don't see how anyone who has played a game before and has critical thinking skills can find that scenario compelling at all. First, sit by yourself in a crate in deep space and hope somebody finds you. Are you exhilarated yet?? Then hope they're dumb enough not to identify you and incinerate you instantly, to showcase how much skill you have! After that, engage in PvP so asymmetrical it will make your eyes bleed, because who doesn't want to be forced into hand-to-hand combat while playing a trader in a goddamn spaceship game?

Stop being mean to Mr. Bloodworth that's not nice. What's the point of this thread if you're just gonna post shit like that?








PS fuck off Draegan you clown


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: calapine on October 29, 2014, 11:35:06 PM
Well, this thread is pretty shite.  :sad:

The valid points about the funding model dialed to 11 and the issues of feature creep have been made about 20 pages ago. Now it's just the same "LULZ it's a scam joke" again and again and again. Intersected with an informational post by Lucas ( :heart:) once in while. It just get's old.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on October 30, 2014, 12:05:41 AM
But there was new information about how stupid it is. It's not like people are discussing the same old stuff, we're discussing how stupid the newly released information is. Why is that not reasonable?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on October 30, 2014, 09:55:40 AM
Some people say we've hit Peak Stupid on this topic and there is no possible way more stupid can be extracted.

I say drill, baby, drill.   :drill:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lantyssa on October 30, 2014, 11:26:44 AM
Peak Stupid is logarithmic.  It may not increase in magnitude, but there's still plenty of it to go around.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ezrast on October 30, 2014, 11:51:27 AM
Or a fun thing, for that matter. I don't see how anyone who has played a game before and has critical thinking skills can find that scenario compelling at all. First, sit by yourself in a crate in deep space and hope somebody finds you. Are you exhilarated yet?? Then hope they're dumb enough not to identify you and incinerate you instantly, to showcase how much skill you have! After that, engage in PvP so asymmetrical it will make your eyes bleed, because who doesn't want to be forced into hand-to-hand combat while playing a trader in a goddamn spaceship game?
Stop being mean to Mr. Bloodworth that's not nice. What's the point of this thread if you're just gonna post shit like that?
Not sure how deep in the chasm I am but just to put it out there, I wasn't trying to target anyone here with my response. It was the first thing I thought of when I read the thing Montague quoted; it just took me a while to get around to posting it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 30, 2014, 12:58:00 PM
Just a reality check: this is a totally unfinished, crowd funded game project of unprecedented feature creep, that also aggressively monetizes everything it can, and at incredibly steep price points. It demonstrably hooks people much like an addiction would, sometimes to the point of financial ruin.

It's not possible to for any discussion of this thing to be in the format of traditional upcoming games threads.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Goreschach on October 30, 2014, 02:33:35 PM
Just a reality check: this is a totally unfinished, crowd funded game project of unprecedented feature creep, that also aggressively monetizes everything it can, and at incredibly steep price points. It demonstrably hooks people much like an addiction would, sometimes to the point of financial ruin.

It's not possible to for any discussion of this thing to be in the format of traditional upcoming games threads.

And the guy behind the project hasn't made a game in like two decades.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on October 30, 2014, 02:35:43 PM
But he did make the Wing Commander movie.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 30, 2014, 03:54:30 PM
Honestly, the most likely outcome is that the game comes out and it's okay, out maybe even possibly good, but the expectations of the True Believers who threw literally thousands of dollars at this thing cannot be met under any earthly circumstances and their mass delusion will only cause months of paroxysmal howling. The producers are eating their time trying to temper the expectations of a bunch of fixing lunatics, then turning around and actively fostering the lunacy because it gets them millions of dollars. Millions! And they're going to waste so much time and scope trying to artlessly hack a game around the bloated, weird ships they've already sold, but they should really just shut off the hype machine and stop wasting time on anything but the whole making the core gameplay features part.

Which, of course, creates the next most likely outcome: they don't and the game is sub par because they spent so much time promising the moon and not knowing how to focus their time and resources to things that would actually ever fucking work.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ingmar on October 30, 2014, 04:09:22 PM
It's not possible to for any discussion of this thing to be in the format of traditional upcoming games threads.

Is it really that different from the Vanguard thread?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hutch on October 30, 2014, 04:15:49 PM
Or the Horizons thread?
Was there a Horizons thread? Did that game precede F13?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 30, 2014, 04:19:19 PM
Neither Vanguard nor Horizons even remotely compare to Chris Roberts. McQuaid and the trio of asshat buttheads behind Horizons conned business-people into giving them money. I don't believe either of those games were a con, but I do believe that no one associated with either were mentally stable enough to be considered good investments.

Star Citizen, however, is a con perpetrated on the public and should be treated as such. He will never deliver the experience he's promising whether he has $5M or $50M. It's a shame he has the latter. Also, depressing.

Edit: Horizons pre-dated f13 by a few months, it happened during the transition period as well. By the time f13 had started it had petered out.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on October 30, 2014, 06:26:55 PM
Or the Horizons thread?
Was there a Horizons thread? Did that game precede F13?


Preceded. It was Lum's site and minted the fetuspault meme.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Triforcer on October 30, 2014, 06:29:48 PM
Or a fun thing, for that matter. I don't see how anyone who has played a game before and has critical thinking skills can find that scenario compelling at all. First, sit by yourself in a crate in deep space and hope somebody finds you. Are you exhilarated yet?? Then hope they're dumb enough not to identify you and incinerate you instantly, to showcase how much skill you have! After that, engage in PvP so asymmetrical it will make your eyes bleed, because who doesn't want to be forced into hand-to-hand combat while playing a trader in a goddamn spaceship game?

Actually, given my limited video game time, I'd love that.  I'd sit in a crate for a week, have my computer beep at me when someone opens it, and stab them.  We finally have a worthy successor to GL Jeff.  Wait- is Chris Roberts GL Jeff?  Do we know? 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on October 30, 2014, 07:45:17 PM
Just a reality check: this is a totally unfinished, crowd funded game project of unprecedented feature creep, that also aggressively monetizes everything it can, and at incredibly steep price points. It demonstrably hooks people much like an addiction would, sometimes to the point of financial ruin.

This should be the whole thread title.

Edit: eh, it might be a bit too long

(http://www.darniaq.com/Images/Therealtitle.JPG)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: calapine on October 30, 2014, 07:47:25 PM
Just a reality check: this is a totally unfinished, crowd funded game project of unprecedented feature creep, that also aggressively monetizes everything it can, and at incredibly steep price points. It demonstrably hooks people much like an addiction would, sometimes to the point of financial ruin.

It's not possible to for any discussion of this thing to be in the format of traditional upcoming games threads.

It's interesting how different people can see things.  :-)

My view towards the game at the moment is the same as for Elite Dangerous: I have them "pre-ordered" but currently not enough involved to follow the development or play the beta.

Re your points:

  • aggressively monetizes everything it can, and at incredibly steep price points

Actually you can get the full game for USD 40.--, which is almost Indie-title priced. Of course the higher tiers are crazy, and I would never buy into them. But as long as I am not forced to it's hard to get upset about. Wether the push towards crowd-funding in gaming is a good thing, and where the border between reasonable and milking the players lies, might be worth a debate. But it's essentially a philosophic discussion and doesn't really affect me as player who just wants some shoot some Kilrathi Vanduuls.


  • unprecedented feature creep

Definitely happening, despite them saying they are aware of the issue. Elite Dangerous doesn't even try to add first-person player characters and instead says "we might do it in an expansion". Which is probably the better approach than promising the pie in the sky and later having to back-pedal once release date closes in. But whether gimmicks like "can hide in a box" make it or not...eh, who cares.

The core part of flying a fighter craft is in the game. During the time I played it started out very rough (ships feeling weightless, controls being yanky, flight model being very limited). The feedback was followed by some very long posts from their flight physics guy, which addressed the problems and outlined planned changes. And weeks later the first iterations, which noticeable improved (although not completely  fixed) the craft handling. Which left me with a good impression that a) they devs actually understand what the issue with their gameplay is b) they are competent enough to produce results in a reasonable time-frame. Something that notable the MWO-devs failed horribly on both points.

To recap: The space flying part is shaping up solid. There will be some form of "MMO" and multi-player game-play around that, so it's going to be a game of space pew pew together with friends. Whether they manage to actually implement 50% or 75% of the bullet points they promised is, in my eyes, not going to make or break the game. It's a pizza situation: Even if it's bad it's still good.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 30, 2014, 07:57:18 PM
Quote
Actually you can get the full game for USD 40.--, which is almost Indie-title priced.

No. $15 is basically the upper end of actual Indie titles, though a few here and there have crept a tiny bit higher.

$50M in crowd-funding is less "Indie" than Madden.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on October 30, 2014, 08:17:21 PM
Just a reality check: this is a totally unfinished, crowd funded game project of unprecedented feature creep, that also aggressively monetizes everything it can, and at incredibly steep price points. It demonstrably hooks people much like an addiction would, sometimes to the point of financial ruin.

It's not possible to for any discussion of this thing to be in the format of traditional upcoming games threads.

It's interesting how different people can see things.  :-)

My view towards the game at the moment is the same as for Elite Dangerous: I have them "pre-ordered" but currently not enough involved to follow the development or play the beta.

Re your points:

  • aggressively monetizes everything it can, and at incredibly steep price points

Actually you can get the full game for USD 40.--, which is almost Indie-title priced. Of course the higher tiers are crazy, and I would never buy into them. But as long as I am not forced to it's hard to get upset about. Wether the push towards crowd-funding in gaming is a good thing, and where the border between reasonable and milking the players lies, might be worth a debate. But it's essentially a philosophic discussion and doesn't really affect me as player who just wants some shoot some Kilrathi Vanduuls.

Completely wrong. You don't play in a vacuum. They don't design or spend their resources in one either.

Moreover you don't live in one, and their behaviour around this game is offensively wrong.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: apocrypha on October 31, 2014, 01:30:56 AM
  • aggressively monetizes everything it can, and at incredibly steep price points

Actually you can get the full game for USD 40.--, which is almost Indie-title priced. Of course the higher tiers are crazy, and I would never buy into them. But as long as I am not forced to it's hard to get upset about. Wether the push towards crowd-funding in gaming is a good thing, and where the border between reasonable and milking the players lies, might be worth a debate. But it's essentially a philosophic discussion and doesn't really affect me as player who just wants some shoot some Kilrathi Vanduuls.

It's rare that I disagree with you Calapine, but on this I really do. It does affect the game experience of someone who avoids all of the extra monetisation because the entire structure of this game is being built around it. It will totally affect balance and economy.

And yes, there may be a border between reasonable behavior and milking the players, and there is no way that this game is anywhere near that border, it is far, far over it and is using some of the most egregious methods and psychology to encourage it. RSI is abusing it's fans and is acting more like a drug dealer than a game developer.

It also has the potential to inflict major damage on the entire concept of crowd funded games development, which is already IMO on life support. And that would be a shame because there are some real gems that have come out of it in the last few years, Kerbal Space Program, Papers Please, etc.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 31, 2014, 02:29:50 AM
It's interesting how different people can see things.  :-)

Having a close relative who almost ruined their life through gambling addiction, I have a really low tolerance for creative monetization schemes. Earlier I thought SC was merely crazy, but that story of someone's friend spending 18k kinda made up my mind. They're being predatory and at this point they should know it.







Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 31, 2014, 03:14:55 AM
The pre-sale of the pre-sale of a limited edition ship (called Concept Sale) for a mere 300$ really pisses me off.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: apocrypha on October 31, 2014, 03:16:58 AM
Having a close relative who almost ruined their life through gambling addiction, I have a really low tolerance for creative monetization schemes. Earlier I thought SC was merely crazy, but that story of someone's friend spending 18k kinda made up my mind. They're being predatory and at this point they should know it.

Yes, spot on. Gambling addiction is what this makes me think of. There are undoubtedly some people who's lives are being fucked by this bastard and I do not believe in blaming the victim.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on October 31, 2014, 06:00:57 AM
I don't pretend that most people care about people throwing their money at this for stupid reasons or addictive personalities.

What I care about is that this offends me as a person that sees the long-reaching tendrils of this thing to con-men elsewhere. This thing HAS to flame out and serve as a horrible example to these derelicts, or we're all going to suffer in the industry as more people continue to try this hackneyed model.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on October 31, 2014, 08:47:47 AM
A fool and their money are soon parted. If it isn't this it's something else. You guys are too easily offended.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on October 31, 2014, 09:17:12 AM
A fool and their money are soon parted. If it isn't this it's something else. You guys are too easily offended.
You sir, have offended me.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tebonas on October 31, 2014, 10:12:50 AM
Maybe I lose 30 dollars when that whole thing explodes and the ensuing drama from all those high-paying people will be well worth the price, maybe their accumulated money will improve my game (I sincerely doubt that will happen).

I fear they will deliver a sub-par to mediocre game that will disappoint everyone but not enrage anyone, though.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on October 31, 2014, 10:48:40 AM
A fool and their money are soon parted. If it isn't this it's something else. You guys are too easily offended.

It ain't that easy.

Firstly I hate victim blaming. Secondly you quite wrongfully assume that people who fall for such cons are less intelligent than you and that you - being more intelligent and wise in the ways of the world - are immune from falling victim to any con artists and their psychological tricks. Con artists are smart people and constantly devise better ways to get you by exploiting your personality flaws. Exploiting the arrogance of their victims is one way they get you.

Thirdly in the context of gambling and gambling-equivalent monetarization schemes like free to play gaming you're up against a whole team of behavioral psychologists and sociology majors that are employed to make the gameplay as addictive and 'compelling' as they possibly can. They have more people working on new ways to make you spend money than they have people that actually design and develop the game.

Destiny is a recent example of behavioral psychology finding its way into game design, even though it isn't (yet) a monetarization scheme. Just think about all of the 'Destiny is a disappointing game yet I can't stop playing' posts.

Just because there hasn't been anyone lately that tried to sell you a bridge in manhattan doesn't mean that you aren't constantly pressured and subtly manipulated to do things you don't want to do. Just go grocery shopping in a supermarket and you are at a place that has been designed by psychologists and shaped in a way to make you buy stuff you don't need.

So don't hate the people falling for such scams, hate the people that employ them. Especially when it could mean the end of games and could turn the whole business into basically designing more and more elaborate money extraction shemes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on October 31, 2014, 11:00:04 AM
A fool and their money are soon parted. If it isn't this it's something else. You guys are too easily offended.

It ain't that easy.

Firstly I hate victim blaming. Secondly you quite wrongfully assume that people who fall for such cons are less intelligent than you and that you - being more intelligent and wise in the ways of the world - are immune from falling victim to any con artists and their psychological tricks. Con artists are smart people and constantly devise better ways to get you by exploiting your personality flaws. Exploiting the arrogance of their victims is one way they get you.

Thirdly in the context of gambling and gambling-equivalent monetarization schemes like free to play gaming you're up against a whole team of behavioral psychologists and sociology majors that are employed to make the gameplay as addictive and 'compelling' as they possibly can. They have more people working on new ways to make you spend money than they have people that actually design and develop the game.

Destiny is a recent example of behavioral psychology finding its way into game design, even though it isn't (yet) a monetarization scheme. Just think about all of the 'Destiny is a disappointing game yet I can't stop playing' posts.

Just because there hasn't been anyone lately that tried to sell you a bridge in manhattan doesn't mean that you aren't constantly pressured and subtly manipulated to do things you don't want to do. Just go grocery shopping in a supermarket and you are at a place that has been designed by psychologists and shaped in a way to make you buy stuff you don't need.

So don't hate the people falling for such scams, hate the people that employ them. Especially when it could mean the end of games and could turn the whole business into basically designing more and more elaborate money extraction shemes.

Don't you have a crusade against something you have to go to?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on October 31, 2014, 11:34:20 AM
A fool and their money are soon parted. If it isn't this it's something else. You guys are too easily offended.

If it's something else, fine. Not this. I'm offended by the idea of crowd-funding for video games as a whole, but they are usually small and contained. I can move past that. This is something else on such a large scale that the budget is now moving into AAA territory. I don't want anybody to try anything like this ever again. I want it to burn.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: calapine on October 31, 2014, 11:42:34 AM
It's rare that I disagree with you Calapine, but on this I really do.

And yes, there may be a border between reasonable behavior and milking the players, and there is no way that this game is anywhere near that border, it is far, far over it and is using some of the most egregious methods and psychology to encourage it. RSI is abusing it's fans and is acting more like a drug dealer than a game developer.
Having a close relative who almost ruined their life through gambling addiction, I have a really low tolerance for creative monetization schemes. Earlier I thought SC was merely crazy, but that story of someone's friend spending 18k kinda made up my mind. They're being predatory and at this point they should know it.
Yes, spot on. Gambling addiction is what this makes me think of. There are undoubtedly some people who's lives are being fucked by this bastard and I do not believe in blaming the victim.


Hmmm. Fair point. This isn't something I had really considered. The initial impression was that the ships sale isn't really qualitatively different from MWO dangling robots in front of your nose, or taking a shortcut with ISK in EvE.

It (gambling addiction) is not a topic though I feel informed enough to make a judgement, so I will take a your word for it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on October 31, 2014, 11:51:52 AM
A fool and their money are soon parted. If it isn't this it's something else. You guys are too easily offended.

If it's something else, fine. Not this. I'm offended by the idea of crowd-funding for video games as a whole, but they are usually small and contained. I can move past that. This is something else on such a large scale that the budget is now moving into AAA territory. I don't want anybody to try anything like this ever again. I want it to burn.

Why do you care so much in a general sense? I understand the vitriol with SC because of it's outrageous ship costs and shit like that, but in a general sense? Who cares. People want to invest into a game, and a lot of people do it? Who cares. Maybe you'll get a good game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maven on October 31, 2014, 01:21:53 PM
Peak Stupid.  :awesome_for_real: Brilliant.

I'm with Jeff and Paelos. I want this to blow up, because until it does, we're stuck in this "It looks like a scam." rather than hard evidence of "It was a scam." If we're proven wrong, we're proven wrong. But experience in the games industry gives you the knowledge that something very, very wrong is happening here.

You need a certain idealism and passion to get through the rigors of the development cycle. I'm witnessing that same disconnected idealism in their marketing that paints the game as more important and meaningful than it ever could be. In the meantime, the money is extracted from the wallet because people aren't paying attention to that messy reality.

Ever heard about the fish in a fishbowl asking what water is? That's the way I feel about capitalism's presence in gaming, only gamers are the fish.

Hey, Jeff, appreciate the long posts.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hoax on October 31, 2014, 01:59:36 PM
I care because I hate religion.

And in my internet villages Star Citizen feels and sounds and acts like an organized religion. So it bothers the fuck out of me.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on October 31, 2014, 02:32:04 PM
I care because I hate religion.

And in my internet villages Star Citizen feels and sounds and acts like an organized religion. So it bothers the fuck out of me.

You can find that in any online game pre-launch.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on October 31, 2014, 02:37:23 PM
I understand defending this game if you've sunk money into it and are trying to justify your poor decisions, but otherwise I can think of far more deserving damsels to white-knight.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on October 31, 2014, 02:37:55 PM
I care because I hate religion.

And in my internet villages Star Citizen feels and sounds and acts like an organized religion. So it bothers the fuck out of me.

You can find that in any online game pre-launch.
But, like everything else this game promises, that fanboi fervor is dialed up to 11.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hutch on October 31, 2014, 02:38:43 PM

I'm with Jeff and Paelos. I want this to blow up, because until it does, we're stuck in this "It looks like a scam." rather than hard evidence of "It was a scam." If we're proven wrong, we're proven wrong. But experience in the games industry gives you the knowledge that something very, very wrong is happening here.


The only way you get "hard evidence" is if someone on the inside goes public with such.
Or, if the guy holding the money suddenly fucks off to NoExtraditionStan Island, in which case you can draw the same conclusion  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on October 31, 2014, 03:36:16 PM
A fool and their money are soon parted. If it isn't this it's something else. You guys are too easily offended.

It ain't that easy.

Firstly I hate victim blaming. Secondly you quite wrongfully assume that people who fall for such cons are less intelligent than you and that you - being more intelligent and wise in the ways of the world - are immune from falling victim to any con artists and their psychological tricks. Con artists are smart people and constantly devise better ways to get you by exploiting your personality flaws. Exploiting the arrogance of their victims is one way they get you.

Thirdly in the context of gambling and gambling-equivalent monetarization schemes like free to play gaming you're up against a whole team of behavioral psychologists and sociology majors that are employed to make the gameplay as addictive and 'compelling' as they possibly can. They have more people working on new ways to make you spend money than they have people that actually design and develop the game.

Destiny is a recent example of behavioral psychology finding its way into game design, even though it isn't (yet) a monetarization scheme. Just think about all of the 'Destiny is a disappointing game yet I can't stop playing' posts.

Just because there hasn't been anyone lately that tried to sell you a bridge in manhattan doesn't mean that you aren't constantly pressured and subtly manipulated to do things you don't want to do. Just go grocery shopping in a supermarket and you are at a place that has been designed by psychologists and shaped in a way to make you buy stuff you don't need.

So don't hate the people falling for such scams, hate the people that employ them. Especially when it could mean the end of games and could turn the whole business into basically designing more and more elaborate money extraction shemes.

Don't you have a crusade against something you have to go to?

You really do hate people picking on others, don't you?

Fuckwit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on October 31, 2014, 03:43:33 PM
This thread is not in Politics...yet.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on October 31, 2014, 04:56:24 PM
Why do you care so much in a general sense? I understand the vitriol with SC because of it's outrageous ship costs and shit like that, but in a general sense?

Because I do. That's really the only response you deserve to that silly question.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mandella on October 31, 2014, 05:55:43 PM
.you're up against a whole team of behavioral psychologists and sociology majors.

Name some please. Not the games, but people actually hired with those degrees to make the game as addictive as possible.

You hear this accusation sometimes, but I have never read an actual account with names named.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on October 31, 2014, 07:52:40 PM

You really do hate people picking on others, don't you?

Fuckwit.

(http://cdn.sneakerreport.com/assets/2014/02/seinfeld33.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 31, 2014, 08:10:04 PM
.you're up against a whole team of behavioral psychologists and sociology majors.

Name some please. Not the games, but people actually hired with those degrees to make the game as addictive as possible.

You hear this accusation sometimes, but I have never read an actual account with names named.

Doesn't happen much outside of social "games," other than on a consultancy basis, but I can assure you these people exist. And they are not what I would define as lawful good. I am not outting any of them. That said, a team of them? Nope. Not a thing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: calapine on October 31, 2014, 08:16:34 PM

You really do hate people picking on others, don't you?

Fuckwit.

(http://cdn.sneakerreport.com/assets/2014/02/seinfeld33.gif)

I swear some of you people are the internet incarnation of Bebgie from Trainspotting. No matter what thread, after a few pages shit flinging starts.  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on October 31, 2014, 08:57:17 PM
Well in some cases you have to consider what F13 spawned out of, and it makes some sense why that happens.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on October 31, 2014, 09:17:00 PM
Come on that was a lifetime ago.

I don't get how SC deserves some type of unique conversation about fools and money parted. This is no different from loving the idea of a pre-launch thing so much your abject faith in it knows no critiques. I'd say at least half of us have been an apostle for some game design doc in our lives. My own was DAoC, pre-F13. Others have been more recent. It's Bloodworth's turn at SC.

I don't make any rules. But my feeling is that the best conversations come from acknowledging that all rules are self-created. Therefore: It's ok to be really enthusiastic about something. It's ok to believe in it enough to put money down. It's also ok to spend hours at a one-arm bandit or at some table because you figured out the house, or to spend money on Candy Crush Saga because you just.gotta.make.level.198 or whatever. And it's ok to question the rationale of all of it. As long as you acknowledge that spending money on your own useless hobby means you should temper your attitude about someone else's spend on their own useless hobby.

But it's not ok to question the reality of this. All of this and worse happens. Some of this happens even to some people here. And whether they admit it or not is timing: on whether a thread is relevant and their level of embarrasment about it.

Casinos are designed to make you want to spend money in certain ways, with entire floor plans based on analytics and foot traffic. Retailers are too, measured similarly, motivated slightly differently. F2P games are too. All of this is because there are formulae to it. Some intuit it, others have psychologists working with mathematicians on it. You can not like that stuff all day long. You can even be religiously opposed to its very existence. But that shit is real not because of some hairy fairy concept and proving what company has what PHD on staff. It's simpler than that: It's real because it's fucking real.

Whether SC is a coordinated scam, a pending victim of its own mismanaged feature creap, or actually becomes the inflection point that generates a future like Ready Player One (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ready_Player_One)*, we will only know after it either dies or launches. We don't know now. We can't know now. I prefer to have both the dreamers posting details and the skeptics laughing about them. Just one of those forms an echo chamber. There's entire internets of places I could go for that shit. :-)

* Terrible storytelling. Couldn't even finish it. Cline should write wikipedia pages.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on November 01, 2014, 12:31:31 AM
I don't get how SC deserves some type of unique conversation about fools and money parted. This is no different from loving the idea of a pre-launch thing so much your abject faith in it knows no critiques. I'd say at least half of us have been an apostle for some game design doc in our lives. My own was DAoC, pre-F13. Others have been more recent. It's Bloodworth's turn at SC.
I am ashamed to say that mine was Vanguard.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on November 01, 2014, 03:11:16 AM
The PAX Australia presentation (FPS mechanics) is going to start in about 50 minutes (at 6am EDT, 11am CET); will be broadcasted live on Twitch (then it will be available in the video archive section of the twitch channel, and eventually on YT):

http://www.twitch.tv/starcitizen


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: brellium on November 01, 2014, 04:29:47 AM
I don't get how SC deserves some type of unique conversation about fools and money parted. This is no different from loving the idea of a pre-launch thing so much your abject faith in it knows no critiques. I'd say at least half of us have been an apostle for some game design doc in our lives. My own was DAoC, pre-F13. Others have been more recent. It's Bloodworth's turn at SC.
I am ashamed to say that mine was Vanguard.
My Little Pony, Online.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on November 01, 2014, 04:32:27 AM
Twitch stream struggling, but for now here's the FPS Dev Team presentation, Illfonic (with some footage of the FPS module here and there):

http://youtu.be/6mdnm6r1p8g


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on November 01, 2014, 05:20:24 AM
Ha, it seems the current hype is that the fps module will be a new space ARMA.

This project is going to set entire continents on fire when it fails. And literal foreclosures when it comes to light that more than a few people have spent everything they have on it.   

 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on November 01, 2014, 06:27:58 AM
Am I wrong when I say that even 100M wouldn't be enough for all the stuff they want to make and with that level of detail? Despite the success, money could run out any moment here.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on November 01, 2014, 07:40:13 AM
Come on that was a lifetime ago.

Only 10 years. If anything we're older and MORE crotchety!  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on November 01, 2014, 09:17:40 AM
I mildly condemn the acts of this group of developers.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 01, 2014, 09:52:52 AM
PAX FPS DEMO (http://youtu.be/cir3w-wIx9U)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on November 01, 2014, 10:19:16 AM
Very generic shooter. Impossible to tell from the video if it's any good or not. One thing is for sure, the audience is the obnoxious church-goers kind that gasps and cheers every time the reverend says Lord Jesus Christ! or deploys a portable shield, and the fake team play is quite pathetic. But hey, it's a multi-level marketing sale conference so it's all par for the course.

Back on the shooter, even if it's nothing special, as long as it's a bonus to the an amazing space game I'll take it. But the video definitely didn't show anything to write home about.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on November 01, 2014, 11:53:46 AM
Very generic shooter. Impossible to tell from the video if it's any good or not. One thing is for sure, the audience is the obnoxious church-goers kind that gasps and cheers every time the reverend says Lord Jesus Christ! or deploys a portable shield, and the fake team play is quite pathetic. But hey, it's a multi-level marketing sale conference so it's all par for the course.

Back on the shooter, even if it's nothing special, as long as it's a bonus to the an amazing space game I'll take it. But the video definitely didn't show anything to write home about.

What you're missing is the part where you build immersion by waiting in a crate for an hour before the shooty part.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on November 01, 2014, 12:33:52 PM
Next add on should have space apartments and real estates.
Limited edition furniture and stuff.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on November 01, 2014, 01:08:46 PM
Don't give them any more ideas.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on November 01, 2014, 01:34:57 PM
Don't give them any more ideas.


Corporate raids on warehouses.
Stealing their filez, data and weapons...
Nothing like blowing up the enemy's ammo dump, amirite?
I can't wait to swoop in at night when everyone's fast asleep and drop in uninvited, hacking through their databanks and running to the outside perimeter for evac under troop fire.
And just when they thought they cornered me, I hop on my Super Cobra Gunship and blow the fuck out of them and afterburner out of the atmosphere.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on November 01, 2014, 03:02:22 PM
... with tits! And a badge!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on November 01, 2014, 03:03:36 PM
Lol at the cult attire.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on November 01, 2014, 03:41:32 PM
I think they're mainly developing for these cult meetings, you can keep the scheme running far longer like that!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 01, 2014, 04:34:49 PM
  • aggressively monetizes everything it can, and at incredibly steep price points

Actually you can get the full game for USD 40.--, which is almost Indie-title priced. Of course the higher tiers are crazy, and I would never buy into them. But as long as I am not forced to it's hard to get upset about. Wether the push towards crowd-funding in gaming is a good thing, and where the border between reasonable and milking the players lies, might be worth a debate. But it's essentially a philosophic discussion and doesn't really affect me as player who just wants some shoot some Kilrathi Vanduuls.

It's rare that I disagree with you Calapine, but on this I really do. It does affect the game experience of someone who avoids all of the extra monetisation because the entire structure of this game is being built around it. It will totally affect balance and economy.

No, hes right.

Squadron 42, is mostly single player experience ( You can allow friends to join if you want ).
Star citizen can be played one of two ways, hosting your own server, or on the PU hosted by CIG. Your own server can be fully modded out if you want to be starwars. Too many people are responding as if this is a MMO, its really, REALLY not. Considering things like the PVE>PVP slider, your experience can be singular if that's what you want, and right now, the bare minimum for the game is around 40$, out of the 60$ it will be "at retail".


I understand defending this game if you've sunk money into it and are trying to justify your poor decisions, but otherwise I can think of far more deserving damsels to white-knight.

People would have to think it was a poor decision to back this game to agree with you. There was a large gap for a long time for this sort of niche game, and make no mistake, this is a niche game. Its not the next blockbuster. It does not seem to strive to be, hence parts of the design. treating it as its the next homogenized blockbuster everyone with a console will buy is a mistake. Its very clearly, and always has been a niche game for a specific audience. That audience is backing it. That audiance wants this game made. That audience is what its being tailored to, patch after patch. Progress on hard drive. Feedback directly applied to it as calapine said. There was name recognition at first, but we are far from that anymore, progress right in front of peoples faces is what drives it now. Ignoring this is a mistake if you are trying to objectively understand whats going on here with this titles crowed funding success.

I personally, have never understood the "How dare they make a game I will never play, I hope they fail", or worse, the camp of "How dare they make a game I may enjoy, I hope they fail". That's just an unfathomable position to me, especially in a group of gamers. Its cynical, and childish, and extreamly petty. Normally with zero roots in reality of how games are made, but based on how easy they think it is in their minds. No Developer sets out to make a bad game, however bad games are made, most, never see the light of day.

I also understand, that while Chris Roberts may not have made a title in years, he has a team of people that have, and have some great talent backing him. After all, designers don't really need to know C++ do they? So, focusing on Chris as if hes the only member, is, well, silly. Developments are teams. There is some really good talent on this team.

The gambling, I have no idea where this comparison comes from. None. In fact I see it in other, more mainstream titles in the form of lock boxes or RNG to "collectable cards" then I see it ANYWHERE in the pledge store. I See a case of barking up the wrong tree there. The only explanation I see if this PROJECTED motivation some of you have that people are "investing". I Can't say I know anyone, or have seen anyone "investing" in the game, simply backing a game that has the potential to be the game they wished wing commander and freelancer were, or should have been. Even at the lowest level of a pledge, you get the full game. Full stop. There is no more, or less return. Other than the game is ABLE to be made. Where there was clearly, no other process to do so.

Many people have never seen a game made, never seen games at the early stages parts of this are in. Its evidenced in even the responses to the FPS demo posted, responses are as if this is done. Its not, not even close. Its only just begun, and will have the same level of changes and progress we already see right on our hard drives with the flight portion.

Can things go wrong? Yes. Will they? Yes.  Should they just stop because of that? Hell no. That process is called development, mistakes are made, things are changed, feedback integrated. That's what development IS. I'm going to say this again: That's what development IS.

Fact of the matter is, people see progress, they see changes, they see feedback integrated right in front of their faces. They talk to friends, more people get excited. This is why they back.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on November 01, 2014, 04:48:45 PM
What exactly are you getting right now for your 40 dollah in the door money?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 01, 2014, 05:05:37 PM
What exactly are you getting right now for your 40 dollah in the door money?

Everything.

Squadron 42 single player.
Access the the PU. ( No sub )
The software to host your own PU.

It breaks down more than that ( Such as MOD API access ), but that's the gist. There is ZERO content behind a pay-wall. None. Zero. Zip. If someone thinks there is, at the most that can be attributed to communication, but as we all know, some people the best communication in the world would not help. But malice? No. That's dumb.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on November 01, 2014, 05:06:55 PM
Is all of that stuff actually implemented and playable?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 01, 2014, 05:07:22 PM
Is all of that stuff actually implemented and playable?

Its in Development. It does not matter if its "in yet", this is what 40$ gets you. Again, falicy is treating this as a finished product. It's not. Its still being funded and developed. If you do not find value in that, do not pledge.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 01, 2014, 05:17:26 PM
In other news: Arena Commander 0.9.2 Released! (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14258-Arena-Commander-092-Released)

And a rather impressive reveal page for the Herald (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14249-UEE-Intercepted-Signal-The-Drake-Herald-Threat)



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on November 01, 2014, 06:28:40 PM
Is all of that stuff actually implemented and playable?

Its in Development. It does not matter if its "in yet", this is what 40$ gets you. Again, falicy is treating this as a finished product. It's not. Its still being funded and developed. If you do not find value in that, do not pledge.

If it's not implemented and playable then it does not "get you" anything.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on November 01, 2014, 06:56:31 PM
Well, I mean, pre-ordering is a thing.  I'm willing to bash on this game as much as the next guy, but I'm not going to apply some arbitrary standard for a $40 pre-order/alpha access.  There are far better things to nail this game to the wall for than this.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on November 01, 2014, 06:58:15 PM
I only asked because Sir T asked what $40 got you right now, and I didn't think MBW's list was implemented yet.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on November 01, 2014, 09:18:50 PM
Oh look, another corridor shooter... innnnn spppaaaccceee. There was more third dimensional fighting in Bungie's Marathon 20 years ago than I'm seeing here. But I don't blame this game's development. Instead I'll blame the goddamned console controllers.

And maybe that people don't really want infantry fighting in the third dimension. But then I'll just blame a generation of gamers brought up on goddamned console controllers  :why_so_serious:

Am I wrong when I say that even 100M wouldn't be enough for all the stuff they want to make and with that level of detail? Despite the success, money could run out any moment here.
If they had a bucket with finite cash they were drawing from, yes, $100mm isn't enough for everything they've promised. However, two things to keep in mind:

1. They'll keep getting money as long as the dream is alive.
2. "Good enough" is all contextual. Kinda doesn't matter if a diehard fan of BF likes the FPS mode in SC. Just matters if a backer does.

I don't get how SC deserves some type of unique conversation about fools and money parted. This is no different from loving the idea of a pre-launch thing so much your abject faith in it knows no critiques. I'd say at least half of us have been an apostle for some game design doc in our lives. My own was DAoC, pre-F13. Others have been more recent. It's Bloodworth's turn at SC.
I am ashamed to say that mine was Vanguard.
My Little Pony, Online.

Wait, which version?

And, ha, we need a single airing of grievances thread. What was the one game that broke our beliefs :-)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on November 01, 2014, 09:37:13 PM
I only asked because Sir T asked what $40 got you right now, and I didn't think MBW's list was implemented yet.

Oi, kid. Senpai's been around at it for longer than you. We know how this works. Pre-order things and then you get something.
How can you call it paying for nothing?
Ever ordered a pizza with credit card?
It took me 40 minutes. Jesus. Now that's paying for 'maybe somethings.'
In his case it'll take him 2-3 years for the pizza to arrive. So it's all good. Maybe when it gets there, there'll be extra toppings.
And we all know anything extra for pizza is a bonus.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: apocrypha on November 02, 2014, 01:12:41 AM
No, hes right.

Squadron 42, is mostly single player experience ( You can allow friends to join if you want ).
Star citizen can be played one of two ways, hosting your own server, or on the PU hosted by CIG. Your own server can be fully modded out if you want to be starwars. Too many people are responding as if this is a MMO, its really, REALLY not. Considering things like the PVE>PVP slider, your experience can be singular if that's what you want, and right now, the bare minimum for the game is around 40$, out of the 60$ it will be "at retail".

OK well that's interesting to know, however single player games are still affected by balance issues, and I'll be very surprised if the SC funding model doesn't have some major effects on the gameplay later on.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on November 02, 2014, 05:36:50 AM
So, your 40 quid gets you pretty much nothing right now. Fair enough...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Nija on November 02, 2014, 07:11:21 AM
$40 gets you hopes and dreams.

Such things that do not exist in video games.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on November 02, 2014, 07:40:06 AM
Granted, I think it's fair to beat on the game and it's lack of real features or the ability to produce half of what they promise to an unwitting public.

I don't think it's fair to bust on people here for putting $40 into something. That's a minimal cost, and they don't deserve to be racked over the coals for gambling with their money.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on November 02, 2014, 08:12:19 AM
When I spent my $45 it came with alpha & beta, including pre-order of squadron 42 and whatever version of multiplayer they end up releasing.  So no more of a waste than any other game I've pre-ordered. However, that was a long time ago, way before much of their crazy feature creep.

At this point in time it is very much a scam. I am pretty confident it became a scam when Roberts saw how much money suckers would throw at him.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on November 02, 2014, 08:36:35 AM
Full disclosure, I've backed 2 games in my time, Carrier Command and Planetary Annihilation (which hasn't been released yet), both when they were at the stage of Functional betas. Carrier command I actually played the crap out of the Beta and got my moneys worth out of that. The other one I bought as it is in the family of total Annihilation and Supreme commander, but I haven't been able to get it running as I didn't read that the beta only works on 64 bit machines. Ooops. :)

I think Paying full price for a Prefunctional Alpha of a game is pretty silly. Its ripe for exploitation and is profoundly anti-consumer.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on November 02, 2014, 09:47:40 AM
I've only backed a handful of KS games, but I've preordered a ton of stuff.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maven on November 02, 2014, 09:57:36 AM
What follows from idealism and optimism is disappointment. There will be many people disappointed that this game isn't the second coming of Christ here to take them away from the harsh cruelties and suffering of the material world.

I'm critical of anyone that considers games more than just entertainment, like the game will solve their life problems. That includes being critical of myself from 12-28. I could afford more compassion but I don't feel it. The implication I see is someone in need of therapy, not the Ultimate Immersive Experience from a software product, but that's a decision they have to make for themselves.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on November 02, 2014, 10:25:06 AM
I'm critical of anyone that considers games more than just entertainment, like the game will solve their life problems.

Made more money selling Magic cards, about ten times over, than I did from selling my stock at a certain company.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on November 02, 2014, 10:41:37 AM
I'm critical of anyone that considers games more than just entertainment, like the game will solve their life problems.

Made more money selling Magic cards, about ten times over, than I did from selling my stock at a certain company.

That's also an almost completely unique scenario. Almost because there are similar games that have secondary markets like that, but they are a minute percentage of overall gaming.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maven on November 02, 2014, 10:53:35 AM
You know I didn't mean financial. I mean, look at the donators to Star Citizen. CLEARLY Financial isn't one of their problems (but perhaps good money management is).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Kail on November 02, 2014, 04:13:52 PM
Full disclosure, I've backed 2 games in my time, Carrier Command and Planetary Annihilation (which hasn't been released yet)

AFAIK Planetary Annihilation was released back in early September (I guess you could argue it was never finished, but that's a whole other kettle of fish).  It's not in Early Access anymore, anyway.  The dev is getting hit with layoffs, too, (http://www.incgamers.com/2014/10/uber-entertainment-hit-with-layoffs) after their latest kickstarter failed, so the future looks dicey. [/ramble]


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: brellium on November 02, 2014, 05:39:32 PM
Full disclosure, I've backed 2 games in my time, Carrier Command and Planetary Annihilation (which hasn't been released yet)

AFAIK Planetary Annihilation was released back in early September (I guess you could argue it was never finished, but that's a whole other kettle of fish).  It's not in Early Access anymore, anyway.  The dev is getting hit with layoffs, too, (http://www.incgamers.com/2014/10/uber-entertainment-hit-with-layoffs) after their latest kickstarter failed, so the future looks dicey. [/ramble]
Hey, look it's back on metacrtic.

Just means I can put my zero back on it, rightfully deserved for being put on steam for 99.99$ as an alpha.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: UnSub on November 02, 2014, 08:06:54 PM
I saw Chris Roberts' panel at PAXAus, which wasn't the one where they showed off this footage. In that early discussion he called Star Citizen a "shared dream" that was everything he (and others) wanted a space game to be, and I think that "dream" is an excellent description for this game.

We also got to see some SC dogfighting where the pilot few into several asteroids while blowing up ships that were clearly underpowered next to him.

I'm glad I didn't try to get into see the SC FPS footage, given how uninspired that looked. Apparently even in SC's universe space ships can't afford to be well lit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on November 02, 2014, 09:42:22 PM
I'm critical of anyone that considers games more than just entertainment, like the game will solve their life problems.
Made more money selling Magic cards, about ten times over, than I did from selling my stock at a certain company.
That's also an almost completely unique scenario. Almost because there are similar games that have secondary markets like that, but they are a minute percentage of overall gaming.
I always like using Magic as an example for almost anything because "Most popular physical game in the world and (probably the) largest secondary hobby-based market in the world" is still considered niche.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on November 03, 2014, 05:51:11 AM
Why do I care?

I care because of the potential ramifications this has on the whole video game ecosystem. At this point I honestly hope that Star Citizen crashes and burns so completely that there's no chance in hell that anyone else will ever try something similar.

Because if it doesn't then people will copy the approach. Star Citizen could become the best gaming experience ever, beloved by all, the Citizen Kane of video games and yet what the business side would take away from the whole deal is that there is no problem to charge people five-digit figures for limited edition virtual goods, nickle-and-dime them for bits and pieces, to promise them the world and basically tacitly accept that people ruin themselves by spending >$10,000 on virtual goods in a game that might never be released. Even if it's just a bad game but the public outrage is low people might get ideas as to how willing and/or stupid people are to spend insane amounts of money on junk.

Just look at what the success of free-to-play has done to the business side of things. Look at Steam and the legion of games that are perpetually in 'early access'. This could lead to free-to-play plus early access cranked up to 11 as everyone races to be the first to make a fortune until the whole money-making scheme crashes and burns.

I also care because Chris Roberts is either a fraud, who has no problem fleecing people for money and tricking them into spending all of their savings on something that probably never existed or he is so deluded by his own dream and vision of 'the perfect everything but the kitchen sink' game and so drunk on his own egotism that he has lost is and basically treats his fans as perpetual ATMs to come closer to his dream. At this point chances are so slim that this will become everything his fans hope - a game that justifies spending thousands of dollars on it - that the consequences of this crashing and burning or even just not delivering as promised are something the whole industry will be affected by. For better or worse.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on November 03, 2014, 06:07:38 AM
It also pains me to say this because I agree that "How dare they make a game I may enjoy, I hope they fail" is a sucky attitude to have.

Best case it's a great game yet nobody thinks of it as something that should be emulated on the business side, second best case is that it is a mediocre game that will soon be forgotten and the lesson will be to basically not do it like Chris Roberts.

I've been around long enough though to get the impression that Chris Roberts has opened a can of worms we'll all be dealing with in the future.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Typhon on November 03, 2014, 06:43:11 AM
(holy shit this is long, sorry)

People are ALREADY trying to follow this model, success seems harder to come by.  There are already rumblings of the kickstarter model imploding.  More importantly, the recipe for this particular kickstarter is so specific, how would anyone reproduce it? 

For Star Citizen;

1) Genre that is beloved, but for some reason no one has made a successful game in the genre for a decade. 
2) Kickstarter "Big Name" is the creator of one of the most beloved series in the genre. 
3) SC kickstarter is kicked off during the kickstarter honeymoon phase.
4) Biggest fans of the kickstarter are all 30+ with real jobs and real money.

I'm very torn on the, "it's bad because people can't control themselves", conversation because the worst of these kickstarters are scams that are just selling hope.  Unfortunately, the best of the kickstarters are also, at least initially, just as guilty of selling only one thing - hope.  I get that there are people with mental disease that can't help themselves, but there are (in my completely unscientific and totally not backed up with statistics) more people that are just dumb-asses that need to be responsible for bad decisions.  I just don't feel sorry for dumbasses that make bad decisions.  I've been that dumbass, you pick yourself up and try to learn something from it.

And F2P?  Why would you even mention F2P?  F2P is a completely different beast and is so pro-gamers-rights it doesn't belong in the same post (because you come off like F2P is a bad thing).  I get to play the game for free to decide if I like it and the business model.  If I don't like either, I should just walk away... you know, and not be a dumbass.  TF2, League of Legends and Marvel Heroes (among many) are great games with the business model done right.  F2P is fine.

Now, don't get me wrong, he is selling virtual towels, afterall.  Best case shit has gotten weird at the top of the house and Chris has wandered into dangerous mental territory.  But that said, if the SC team creates a space shooter that allows me to shoot em up in space and then board a derelict that shoot em up in an "average FPS shooter" all in the same game then... lol, holy crap that's awesome, has that ever been done before?  I was mostly just sleep through this whole thing but that actually sounds pretty cool.

I pick and choose games that interest me and are affordable.  At no time do I imagine that I have to be the morals and ethics police for the industry.  I also don't get off on imagining doom at every new way of doing things that comes along.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maven on November 03, 2014, 06:53:20 AM
I agree with your view on Chris Roberts, Jeff, but there's other possibilities. CIG leadership might have had the self-awareness to realize how far this was going, but they had gotten too far to pull the plug or scale back without undermining consumer confidence or killing the momentum.

I doubt Chris is coming up with the schemes to part money with fool, but I absolutely believe he's the smoke screen they're using to hide the business types behind the scenes. Alternatively, giving Chris the benefit of the doubt, he could be doing everything necessary to keep a facade over the enterprise and buy time to finish the game lest the pending lawsuits ruin his company and his reputation. His company is under the gun to deliver. His customers are dreamers. So he delivers new dreams to digest.

I do want to see this crash and burn, because that's all an over-hyped game can do, only now instead of dissatisfied customers, there's potential legal action and the larger effect on the industry.   Most games make their money in that first week after release, just like movies, but CIG has pioneered a method to take that first week and extend it backwards before the release date as far as they'd like.

It's the bastard child of "perpetual Beta" releases and aesthetic DLC.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on November 03, 2014, 10:44:04 AM
Now, don't get me wrong, he is selling virtual towels, afterall. 
I thought they were selling actual, physical towels.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on November 03, 2014, 01:07:07 PM
But that said, if the SC team creates a space shooter that allows me to shoot em up in space and then board a derelict that shoot em up in an "average FPS shooter" all in the same game then... lol, holy crap that's awesome, has that ever been done before? 

I think that's the been the impetus behind the Good Doctor Enemy of Coke Machines Everywhere's game that he has been recreating and renaming for the last 20 years.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on November 04, 2014, 03:46:10 AM
Has a mediocre game ever had a mediocre mini game? Yes. Is that really cause for celebration just due to scale?

I dislike this game for doing wrong what it does wrong. I really don't thing it needs any more reason than that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on November 04, 2014, 04:32:12 AM
I remember when I was playing System Shock 2, slowly unlocking all the game pig games, and having my character play overworld zero while hiding in the chem room


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 04, 2014, 10:24:11 AM
I Think Jeff Kelly has some valid concerns about things surrounding the game, but what he said has little to do with the game itself.  However, he paints a picture of possibly the worst situation, that I'm willing to bet is no where near common. At all. And quite likely to happen in other titles more frequently. Looking at you collectable card games with your RNG power increases for real cash. If you have a source for a large amount of people bankrupting themselves over this id like to see it. I Haven't spent more than i normally do on a pre-order ( two copies ), but that's me.


I Am quite positive someone, somewhere will attempt to emulate this. That's a forgone conclusion for me. But as I said before, I think there are some real reasons why this title has taken off in this method.

* Legendary developer. Your personal opinions aside, Chris Roberts made some of the most beloved series in gaming. Especially for the target audience.
* The game, as pitched, is the game every fan of space pew pew wanted while playing those titles. You can reference myself saying "I want a space game where I am not just s ship" for years on this site. Hell, even CCP knows this, however the attempt went.
* Its now 2014, the average gamer is 30+, and also, most likely played all of his, and his teams titles. In this aspect, this game could not have come at a better time. And its easy to see why this swath of gamers would back, and CAN back. This is important. His target audience is adults with jobs. They brought the project to this point.
* This is something I think the conversation here always misses when talking about how this is happening. The open, frequent communication with backers. It's undeniable. Weekly, monthly, and daily ( in the form of daily developer posts responding to backer questions, Every, single, day ) If you are glossing over this, you are missing a huge chunk of whats driving pledges now. Word of mouth is powerful. Being able to show people, right on your hard drive, the progress and changes being made is powerful. It spreads. Attempts to emulate with out this will hurt you.
* Integration of feedback. They do it all the time, unlike traditional development. This is not a trick, its is completely real. Its happening right now. Proof right in front of people. Every patch.
* The backers of this game, voted to continue this method of fund raising. Full stop. When you are making a title for a group of people, you care about them, and their wants. Chris asked if they should stop, backers said no. Loudly. ( This was right after the kickstarter.com campaign ended )
* Love it or hate it, true or not, the shunning of consoles, widely blamed for holding back gaming, is also quite powerful. divisive even, a buzz spring well. Especially with the target audience.
* This has always been, and always will be a Niche title. If it happens to go mainstream, I suspect it will be purely on its own merits. But that's clearly not the intent in its design, Permadeath and even the FPS mechanics being more akin to ARMA illustrate this. Viewing it thought the lens of "its attempting to be the net COD level of popularity" is the wrong lens.

I'm going to repeat something though. The design, at least in the 10,000 foot view. Has not changed, and IS what many, MANY ( 600k+ ) want. You, who does not care about space simulation games, my not understand the want to be more than just a ship. That does not make it irrelevant. For me, and my group, this design is what we have imagined, talked, and argued about for decades now. Ships, avatars, risk. Technical limitations of the past are gone. We see an increasing list of games in this space finally implementing it to varying degrees of success. Its not something to hand wave over.

The so called "stretch goals" while there were some early on that increased the scope, for the most part, the scope has not changed, we are just in the production steps of the original design. I Understand about seeing new ships come off the pipeline could look like creep. But the ships, are a major chunk of content, and a very larger platform for a multitude of game-play systems. If you had no idea salvage was a thing, you could easily see the reclaimer as creep. All the "milestone" rewards as of late are not new additions, but rather allowing the backers to choose what order they are worked on. Space ships, FPS mechanics, Economy and trade, bounty's and salvage were always on the plate. If you played a Chris Roberts title, wing commander, strike commander, privater or freelancer, its a no brainier. Its the DNA of his games. This is likely the game freelancer was intended to be.

Is it a very ambitious title? Yes. That was stated before a single cent was taken. Do backers care? I'm going with no, on average, in fact its why they are backing. Its why they voted to continue ship sales. People want this game made. People are willing to pay to have it made. ( Underlined for emphasis ) Its a cork that's been waiting to pop for a long long time.

The towel, along with the lamp are another example of backer requests.

I Can't personally predict how well the game will do over time, it has a lot of moving parts. I Can say, the work they have done, is impressive, and right in front of me. And how they are developing it, is likely the only way it would be done ( Referring to the multiple development houses working from a common core )

Do I care, should I care, that some small few may over extend themselves with pledging? No, not really. But I' not trying to tell people how to make what should be simple decision by adults. Do I think they have been unclear about what the project is, and what you get for your money? No, I do not. People back things to make them happen, dream, vision, what ever you want to call it. Its not uncommon, in gaming or anywhere else. Every ground breaking game starts with an idea that seems imposable. It's also true many never leave paper. That's life.

Back things you care about.


EDIT: "Hope." I think its one thing to sell hope, that you never even see. I think its another to sell hope, and then give slices as you go along, showing progress on the greater "hope". Another powerful draw for this. It's not one in the same.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on November 04, 2014, 10:43:23 AM
The difference is that Roberts probably never intended Star Citizen to turn into what it is now. He runs with it sure and he's at least accepting and encouraging people to spend $300 on a 'limited edition' spaceship but hey 'what's the problem, eh?' He's probably still trying to put out an actual game though.

The people emulating his approach will be much more professional about it though.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 04, 2014, 10:49:51 AM
The difference is that Roberts probably never intended Star Citizen to turn into what it is now. He runs with it sure and he's at least accepting and encouraging people to spend $300 on a 'limited edition' spaceship....

I Can't say this is true. I would say his original idea was tempered with realities when it went to kickstarter ( Assumptions on funding, time, resources ). But then the support happened, and boy did it happen. I would say as it stands now, everything on the plate. Is closer to what that unrestricted design was, and by unrestricted, I mean it allowed things to be shifted to be earlier, or more in parallel. Quite frankly, I can't imagine he originally thought he would have this much support or the ability to develop with this many houses or infrastructure. After all, conventional wisdom was that no one played space sims.

Can't say I envy the need to keep all that managed.

As for the method of funding, he did ask. Backers voted. We have 300$ pledge packages. And again, games not out yet, you want to back it or not back it is a personal valuation, and a simple decision. Clearly its one many have reconciled with.


EDIT: An aside:  "The Stats Page" (Star Citizen Educational Series) (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/ships)

EDIT 2: Also, you do know, even the "limited" ships are fully available in the game, though the single-player ( as in the redeemer, used in the story ), or in the PU VIA credits? Or, simply granted due to the private hosting?




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 04, 2014, 11:52:16 AM
My problem with MrB. in this instance, as I said before (and in my opinion what makes him look crazy), is that he is not expressing any caution in his support for the vision.

I Missed this when reading though before. Ill bite. Even though, in just about every post I have told people not to back more than 45$, because that's just a value right there ( Retail is said to be 60$ ), and I have said time and time again, if you think its a waste, don't back.

Gimme a moment.

All my concerns are likely in the details.

* My major concern is the deliberate design decision to link camera view to the skeleton. For instance, entering a buggy right now, is a nauseating experience for me, and other I have shown the game. I firmly believe there are good reasons to have a detached camera view from the animations of the toon. Its a point I disagree with CR and Co with. One of the first games I ever attempted to make, I set up like this ( REAAAAALLLLLL! ). I Hated it. But, on the flip side, ARMA uses this technique, and it is a successful title, and people DO enjoy it. Also, it does facilitate what they are doing with huds and helms, something I do like. Its my understanding though, right now, none of the mocap is in yet, its all hand jammed animations or stock. maybe this will temper it, maybe that will exaggerate it. No idea. However, the recent FPS demo, pre-show did go over some of the things they are doing to mitigate this, specifically modeling the eyes in the head. This is one of those areas I hope they iterate on, and improve over time. Everything tells me they will. Its also something I need to "feel" for myself, and everyone will "feel" it differently.

* Some of the houses they are using, are slightly untested. Obviously this concerns me, however, they are not in a vacuum, and are over seen by the core. Time will tell.

* Multi-crew ships, and the outline of how they work. My main concern here is if it will be fun. Someone mentioned gunning for someone in other games, and it being erratic. I have experienced this myself in games like jump to light speed. But again, its one of those things, you have to see it, and "feel" it. I Do know that comparatively, anything with a man-able turret in this title are lumbering beasts, unlike ships in Jump to light-speed. Hopefully that will mitigate it too.

* I Also wonder how tight they will get the multi-grid system working. Its one of those points I think needs to be refined more than is reasonable. It can quite easily make the game feel cheep if your passengers slide around occasional ( beyond the forces of physics ). Mismatching inheritance in this area can really, REALLY make a game feel cheep. I think we have all experienced this in games before, and you know what I mean.

* The modular ship consoles and permissions systems look promising, but also could open up a world of exploits and unintended issues if not checked. Thankfully, they have 600k + testers seeing every version of it.

* I worry about the instancing. As described, they have a clever plan. As someone who played Wing commander and freelancer way to much, I do not mind the idea of "warp drive, autopilot" like cut scenes. It's the larger engagements I wonder about. Will people notice, how seamless will it end up being, how much can they be hidden? I'm not one to scream it all needs to be truly seamless, just not noticeable.

* Another animation thing, that I'm not sure if its part of the above or not. In between every animation, every interactions, other than transitional stats of walking. There is this "twitch" as if the camera resets, sometimes its fast, sometimes its not. It's something that may be smoothed over with time, but right now, its jarring. You can see this in videos and in the client. Walk up to something, interact, it transitions to the interaction animations, but "twitches" to it. A lot like a misaligned idle pose. It could very well be the use of stock animations and hand jammed they are using currently. Not sure.

* I worry that, for the lowest denominator that what you are getting at this point is not clear. They have been improving this, and I would wager average users understand. It's not as if its hidden. I just think they need to push a bit more to "unmistakeable to a five year old" territory. Again, its not that its not clear. But for some, even things right in your face they miss.

* I worry that the push to make this the best looking game on PC, may push some, in terms of hardware a budget, out. Not that I don't think, uncoupled by the need for a console release, they should not use the full potential of PC's, but that its an easy line to cross accidentally. Its just too early to tell, everything runs fine for me currently. Load times are long however.

* 8k textures. I may be too accustomed to older engines and rendering pipelines. But when I hear they are using 8k x 8k textures. I cringe a bit inside. ( I also do not know how they are using them, could be atlas ETC.. )

* I had concerns about the targeting and flight before this recent update. I do not anymore. It seems to be the large focus at the moment, and it shows.

* I do worry about creep, but I have not seem much of it. YMMV. But its a really, really easy thing to have happen in this scope of a game. I hope its tempered. After all, it IS Chris Roberts.

* Player models. Other than the outfits. There is some serious issues with the players faces. as if the uncanny valley had its own valley. But that's just aesthetics.

* Ambitious scope. On one hand, I applaud them heartily, on the other. Its scary. But i backed because I want this game, and I want it to happen. No regret on that.

For a lot of this games development, its simply to early. I recognize the stage they are in, so its hard for me to pass judgement on systems ether barely implemented, or not implemented. I need to "feel" things. I need to see them, and the progression they take. Thankfully, my 45$ gave me just that. I do not spend hours on the game, as other have said, access like this can ware people down. I am avoiding this by only messing with major releases.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 04, 2014, 12:51:41 PM
(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111125211139/mugen/images/d/de/Kool-aid-mobile-wallpaper.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on November 04, 2014, 01:37:51 PM
Nice. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Typhon on November 04, 2014, 04:52:51 PM
Now, don't get me wrong, he is selling virtual towels, afterall. 
I thought they were selling actual, physical towels.

Oh, heh heh, thank god.... wait, what?  (laughing)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on November 04, 2014, 07:34:59 PM
I care because of the potential ramifications this has on the whole video game ecosystem.

<snip>

Just look at what the success of free-to-play has done to the business side of things. Look at Steam and the legion of games that are perpetually in 'early access'. This could lead to free-to-play plus early access cranked up to 11 as everyone races to be the first to make a fortune until the whole money-making scheme crashes and burns.
I think you addressed your own fear, but I also think you're putting too much blame on this game.

Fleecing impressionable players with virtual goods has been happening before the term "f2p" legitimized what we were derisively referring to as "RMT". Most of the mobile games and almost all of the social games industry is monetized on the f2p model.

KS backed games have already entered the diminishing returns phase. Steam early access already has well known issues. There's no more big budget AAA pipe dream MMO on the horizon to mock. And getting noticed on mobile requires as much luck and marketing dollars as early console games.

Heck the failure of SC can't even cause the death of space sims. Space sims just aren't a thing enough to kill.

The only damage a failure of SC can cause is emotional and financial to the backers and the people who worked on it. Will give a fickle press some content for awhile, but that will be based more on the timing of the failure than the event itself. For example, if they close shop in Nov or Dec, nobody will even notice.

To be clear: I don't wish that to happen.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on November 06, 2014, 07:35:22 AM
Full disclosure, I've backed 2 games in my time, Carrier Command and Planetary Annihilation (which hasn't been released yet)

AFAIK Planetary Annihilation was released back in early September (I guess you could argue it was never finished, but that's a whole other kettle of fish).  It's not in Early Access anymore, anyway.  The dev is getting hit with layoffs, too, (http://www.incgamers.com/2014/10/uber-entertainment-hit-with-layoffs) after their latest kickstarter failed, so the future looks dicey. [/ramble]

Heh, I didn't even realize the thing had been released. Oh well, I got a good game with some issues on one jump and got burned on the other. I'll take my 50% average and run away screaming.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 06, 2014, 07:37:39 AM
Crowd-funding with Star Citizen creator Chris Roberts - ABC News 24  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDCJ-N3N96Y)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 07, 2014, 10:08:05 AM
Awesome fan Trailer.

Star Citizen "Imagine" Fan Trailer (http://youtu.be/ceBbcT7S2_Q)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on November 07, 2014, 10:31:52 AM
I haven't been following the in-game videos well enough to be able to make an educated guess -- is any of that video in-game footage?

(In-engine is not the same as in-game and you know it.)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on November 07, 2014, 10:45:10 AM
The answer, obviously, is WUB WUB BWWWOOOOOOOOOWWWWW.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 07, 2014, 01:21:16 PM
I haven't been following the in-game videos well enough to be able to make an educated guess -- is any of that video in-game footage?

(In-engine is not the same as in-game and you know it.)

It's all real time, not pre-renderd, using in game assets ( as they are currently ). Only parts are from whats in the current client, much of it is from various videos available, many of them, being live real time demos for various conventions.

This below, is 100% in engine, in game, live game-play from a build not available to users ATM ( Also feature multi-users ):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-xvCg8CI9U

LevelCapGaming (https://www.youtube.com/user/LevelCapGaming/search?query=star+citizen) has quite a few videos on the subject, his "Star Citizen Arena Commander - Shut Up And Take My Money! " is all "in game" footage as you define it. Recorded himself, just an older version.

Then there is this: https://player.vimeo.com/video/97280931?autoplay=1




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Soulflame on November 07, 2014, 04:07:44 PM
All I need to know is Mr B is backing this horse.

Full ahead to fail it is, then.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on November 07, 2014, 04:13:16 PM
I haven't been following the in-game videos well enough to be able to make an educated guess -- is any of that video in-game footage?

(In-engine is not the same as in-game and you know it.)

It's all real time, not pre-renderd, using in game assets ( as they are currently ).

Evidently not.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on November 19, 2014, 06:07:40 PM
Star Citizen poster deciding whether or not it should volunteer for some sort of Swedish "sexism rating".  Maybe add it as another stretch goal, at $80 million the game becomes gender neutral and free of revealing female space suits. :awesome_for_real:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/202184/star-citizen-should-be-the-first-game-to-volunteer-for-a-sexism-rating


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on November 19, 2014, 09:13:48 PM
Sexism rating? Gtfo.

no

fuck


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lantyssa on November 19, 2014, 09:39:10 PM
A what!?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ezrast on November 19, 2014, 09:39:46 PM
I'm a big fan of going on gender-equality-related derails in threads that serve no other appreciable purpose, and even I can't find any fucks to give.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: calapine on November 19, 2014, 10:27:11 PM
A what!?

Quote
Sweden mulls 'sexist' video game labels

Future video games produced in Sweden could be labelled according to whether or not they promote gender equality, as part of a new project by gaming industry trade organisation Dataspelsbranchen.


Speaking to The Local, project manager Anton Albiin said it was unclear at this stage if all games produced in Sweden would be given a label, or if companies developing games that promoted equality would be given some kind of certification to use for their own marketing purposes.

He said that as well as analysing the content of the games, Dataspelsbranchen would also look at the processes used by different developers to promote gender equality and diversity, with a view to "helping others to learn from their innovation".

 :roll: :roll:




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on November 19, 2014, 10:32:26 PM
That is stupid.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on November 19, 2014, 10:46:00 PM
It begins.

(http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2014-01/enhanced/webdr06/21/12/anigif_enhanced-buzz-23789-1390326722-5.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: calapine on November 19, 2014, 10:50:34 PM
That is stupid.

Yes, it is. Swedish friend of mine (himself not any right-wing or conservative) says part of the political establishment/discourse are almost comically PC. I should ask  for some examples and then post them in a more appropriate thread.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on November 19, 2014, 10:56:56 PM
I pledge to only buy games rated moderately sexist to extremely sexist.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on November 19, 2014, 11:02:35 PM
Tumblr Politics.

Tumblr Politik?

Not German, but as dumb as the shit they deal with.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on November 20, 2014, 03:11:46 AM
Well to be fair you can't get more equal opportunity than taking the money and never delivering.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on November 20, 2014, 03:40:59 AM
2013:

Swedish cinemas to stamp out sexism with Bechdel test rating on movies (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/swedish-cinemas-to-stamp-out-sexism-with-bechdel-test-rating-on-movies-8924758.html)

Mind, it doesn't say that the movie is bad or that you shouldn't watch it. Some of the proponents pointed out that plenty of their favourite movies would not "pass" the test and that's fine. The rating simply informs vewers on what to expect when it comes to gender representation, in the long run inevitably pointing out the imbalance.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on November 20, 2014, 03:45:42 AM
"Why be biased? Hell, the sexes are equal with their erogenous zones blown sky high!" Batman returns.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on November 20, 2014, 04:59:37 AM
To put my serious hat on: while Bechdel and such are fine, they are tools of movie critique, not warning labels. Implementing things of that nature alongside existing content ratings is problematic, because those ratings draw their influence and/or power from child protection legislation. In some countries they're enforced. In Finland for example giving a PEGI 18 game to a minor is a crime comparable to giving them alcohol or cigarettes.

  


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Kitsune on November 20, 2014, 06:47:57 PM
The bechdel test is retarded.  I propose a new and better test.

The Kitsune Test

Is a woman:

1. A main character.
2. Badass.

2 is invalidated if the woman is only temporarily a badass in a transparent attempt to give her parity with a male character.

Ellen Ripley does not need to talk to a woman to be a fantastic role model.  Neither does Sarah Connor.  Nor Claire Underwood (while I wouldn't present her as a role model unless it's a role model for evil, nobody can claim that she's anything but terrifyingly strong.)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on November 20, 2014, 07:15:37 PM
I don't like playing a woman. It's distracting.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on November 20, 2014, 09:24:08 PM
To put my serious hat on: while Bechdel and such are fine, they are tools of movie critique, not warning labels.

The strength of the Bechdel test is also only apparent when applied to movies statistically, not individual movies. Saying "the majority of movies don't have 2 female characters talking to each other not about men" is somewhat damning. Saying that specifically The Thing doesn't pass the test is idiotic.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Kail on November 20, 2014, 09:41:06 PM
It makes even less sense in games, given how little actual dialogue of any kind there is.  Maybe you could kind of shoehorn it in for "Cinematic Experience" games like The Last Of Us or Metal Gear Solid, but even there there it's more a question of "is the main character of this game a female" because like 98% of the dialogue is aimed at that character.  It makes no sense at all in games where you can choose the gender of characters (most RPGs) or dialogue isn't really a thing (like most platformers) or gender isn't really a thing (puzzle games) or dialogue isn't a static asset (multiplayer games).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on November 21, 2014, 05:49:18 AM
Everyone knows bejeweleed is sexist


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on November 22, 2014, 11:38:47 AM
Wait, what the hell? Two woman talking to each other about something other than a man? THAT'S the test, some stupid thing that would take all of an extra day of shooting to dodge? stupid test that takes all of an extra day of shooting to dodge??

Not, objectified women's bodies in skimpy clothing claimed to have the same armor rating as full plate warn bir Sir Chiseljaw? Not softporn focusing on tittilating T&A? Not damsel in distress/waiting for shining armor? Not macho dude doing everything while the woman stays safely behind the tree?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ezrast on November 22, 2014, 02:27:13 PM
THAT'S the test, some stupid thing that would take all of an extra day of shooting to dodge?
That's the entire point of the Bechdel test. It's not meant to be used as an actual tool of critique for individual movies. It's meant as indictment of the industry as a whole, by intentionally setting the bar as low as possible and then seeing how many movies still fail to clear it. It's a metric, not a standard. What the people in the above links are doing, treating it as a standard rather than a metric, is a fundamental misunderstanding.

(actually, the test was originally meant only to set up the punchline for a goofy comic strip from the '80s - Bechdel was a cartoonist, not a critic. The whole thing is basically a meme that went viral and should be treated with tongue firmly in cheek)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on November 22, 2014, 07:54:55 PM
Right, that part I get.

But how does that gag get written as the main measure of some country's law?

Wait, actually, I know exactly how that happens. But this is the wrong sub-forum  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on November 23, 2014, 05:58:47 AM
Going back on topic, it's the Star Citizen Anniversary Sale! Buy now to commemorate the game not being out yet! New ship that doesn't exist for only $345!

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14314-Star-Citizen-Anniversary-Sale



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sophismata on November 23, 2014, 12:33:32 PM
Everyone knows bejeweleed is sexist
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2013/05/08/the-rules


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on November 23, 2014, 03:54:27 PM
Going back on topic, it's the Star Citizen Anniversary Sale! Buy now to commemorate the game not being out yet! New ship that doesn't exist for only $345!

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14314-Star-Citizen-Anniversary-Sale



You buried the lead.  You didn't mention the new Capital Ship that is going to be on sale for a mere $2,500 in limited quantity.  What a deal!

Edit for quote:

Quote
In addition to the limited ships above, we will also be offering limited allotments of a brand new Star Citizen capital ship! Friday, November 28th will see the launch of the largest capital ship we will make available to players during the pledge campaign: the Javelin destroyer. 200 Javelins will be sold for $2,500 each, with allotments being released at 6 AM, noon, 6 PM and midnight Pacific time. You’ll learn a lot more about the Javelin on Friday, but it’s important to note that this isn’t the ultimate battleship for players who can afford it: Javelins will be sold stripped of military hardware, and it will be a new starting challenge for players to work together with their organizations to outfit them. The Javelin comes with LTI.

But that’s not all! We’re making the Javelin available for hardcore players who are dedicated to supporting Star Citizen… and we’re using the opportunity to allow new players to join the game as well. We’re using the assortment of Javelin destroyers to subsidize discount packages for new players: 200 Javelins means we can make 5,000 $20 Aurora game packages available for sale at the same time!

The rabbit hole is DEEP.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on November 23, 2014, 04:15:14 PM
Going back on topic, it's the Star Citizen Anniversary Sale! Buy now to commemorate the game not being out yet! New ship that doesn't exist for only $345!

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14314-Star-Citizen-Anniversary-Sale



Your buried the lead.  You didn't mention the new Capital Ship that is going to be on sale for a mere $2,500 in limited quantity.  What a deal!

I totally missed that! :ye_gods:  :uhrr: :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on November 23, 2014, 06:43:50 PM
"We're exploiting the insane so we can pretend we're not actually exploiting everyone!"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Kail on November 23, 2014, 08:04:18 PM
But that’s not all! We’re making the Javelin available for hardcore players who are dedicated to supporting Star Citizen… and we’re using the opportunity to allow new players to join the game as well. We’re using the assortment of Javelin destroyers to subsidize discount packages for new players: 200 Javelins means we can make 5,000 $20 Aurora game packages available for sale at the same time!

Are you fucking serious?  They're using sales of their twenty-five hundred dollar supership to "subsidize" their other packages?  Do these guys think they're making real space ships or something?  Did I miss something where we need to mine bitcoins to forge into vehicle armor e-ingots or something, or why the hell are we pretending that there are material costs on virtual goods?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on November 23, 2014, 08:19:39 PM
Chris Roberts fancies himself a digital Elon Musk. He's literally hitler at this point.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on November 23, 2014, 08:58:15 PM
Literally...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on November 23, 2014, 09:52:22 PM
why the hell are we pretending that there are material costs on virtual goods?

We aren't.  They are just just trying to 1) sweeten the pot for people who want to buy the 2,500 virtual spaceship so they can rationalize it as having helped someone and 2) come up with a way to justify selling some cheaper 20 dollar packages so they can make even MORE money, this time from the people who haven't wanted to pony up at the current prices.

And you know what, I bet all of those packages at both levels are going to sell.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on November 23, 2014, 10:02:47 PM
The 20 dollar ones almost certainly will sell out. The fact that the 2500 ones are a battleship will make it fairly certain that they will go too, but its not a total certainty.

The fact that they are offering cheaper packages at all might show they are trying to ease off on the grift as the money might be drying up a little, but they are trying to cover it. one of the things that will be important in this thing is to keep the money coming in you need to keep up the veneer of success. If the marks even get a sniff that te roller coaster is slowing a little they will baulk. I'm reading a book on Enron right now and a lot of the reasons for the crazy accounting fraud they pulled was to keep dazzling the stock market with bullshit so the money would keep coming in.

If they have gotten to the point that they need to keep the money coming in like a torrent to keep development going at all, then they are dead. Or they just feel they cant go quiet with money in the bank and sink into the hard graft of game programming. It must be a hell of an adrenaline rush to see these numbers even if they are genuine.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on November 24, 2014, 11:08:00 AM
Wait... they are selling a limited-edition capital ship that isn't even OUTFITTED? Like it's just a goddamn hull and hardpoints and after you spend $2,500 fucking dollars, you still have to outfit the goddamn thing? How the fuck have people not just gone and done a Super Bowl riot on his fucking car yet?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hoax on November 24, 2014, 11:38:21 AM
You didn't know they sell each gun for like $4-16 in another little store?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/voyager-direct/weapons


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on November 24, 2014, 11:39:24 AM
You didn't know they sell each gun for like $4-16 in another little store?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/voyager-direct/weapons


wait, the ships don't come outfitted? Or do they give you shitty guns for your imaginary future ship that you can then upgrade/make proper with these guns?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on November 24, 2014, 11:43:13 AM
wait, the ships don't come outfitted? Or do they give you shitty guns for your imaginary future ship that you can then upgrade/make proper with these guns?

Quote
but it’s important to note that this isn’t the ultimate battleship for players who can afford it: Javelins will be sold stripped of military hardware, and it will be a new starting challenge for players to work together with their organizations to outfit them. The Javelin comes with LTI.

realism! :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on November 24, 2014, 01:09:23 PM
Idiotic.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on November 24, 2014, 01:10:57 PM
Sorry for going off topic ( :why_so_serious:); amidst the whole anniversary stuff, an interesting article about the current design for player healing/wounds/damage was posted (limb based, body draggin', healing with appropriate tools and using rescue ships, among other things):

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/14318-Design-Healing-Your-Spacemen

As it stands, it's going to be somewhat intertwined with the "Death of a Spaceman" design which dates back to February 2013, and that is still considered as the official "death mechanic" at least 'til some more real testing is made.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/12879-Death-Of-A-Spaceman


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on November 24, 2014, 02:10:04 PM
You didn't know they sell each gun for like $4-16 in another little store?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/voyager-direct/weapons


 :oh_i_see:  :uhrr:  :ye_gods:

Fuck me. Just when I thought this game couldn't find another hole to corn, it plumbs those depths even further.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on November 24, 2014, 05:02:14 PM
From just reading around here, my impression was that the ships were not outfitted, but you're not just buying a hull (a la EVE Online), you're buying an insured hull (you can pull as many free replacements into your hangar as you want).  Sort of like SWTOR does it with its Cartel gear.  But yeah, those guns are consumables; if the ship blows up they're gone.  Didn't know about the gun shop though.

It's quite amusing at this point.  Question for those who know:  are there other ship classes besides snub fighter, small transport, and battleship?  Cruisers, frigates, etc?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: calapine on November 24, 2014, 10:38:55 PM
From just reading around here, my impression was that the ships were not outfitted, but you're not just buying a hull (a la EVE Online), you're buying an insured hull (you can pull as many free replacements into your hangar as you want).  Sort of like SWTOR does it with its Cartel gear.  But yeah, those guns are consumables; if the ship blows up they're gone.  Didn't know about the gun shop though.

All ships so far come fully outfitted with a default load-out, which can be changed. EVE analogy would be getting an Abbadon already fitted with Pulse lasers, EANM II, etc... The difference is the customization is more far reaching and also includes things like the engine, thrusters, power plant.

Ship insurance has to be bought, but is said to be less "hardcore" than EVE in the sense that it's lower cost and if your ship blows up the insurance contract doesn't have to be re-bought. Balancing-mechanics are supposed to be that if you lose your ship repeatably in short time-frame it will take longer for the replacement ship to arrive. Furthermore cargo and gear (loadout) insurances are priced according to "system sec rating" they are valid.


Question for those who know:  are there other ship classes besides snub fighter, small transport, and battleship?  Cruisers, frigates, etc?

Yes. The basic ship-classes are those familiar from the old Wingcommanders: fighters and bombers. Next step up would be those you know from WC Privateer: freighters/multipurpose vessels. This class varies from ships like the Freelancer, which is in it's core still a one person ship with a large cargo-hold to bigger types like the Constellation, which has two manned turrets and a tiny baby-fighter it can launch.

Biggest player ships are frigates. Around 20x time the length of a normal fighter. As example the Idris has 7 turrets and a hangar for 2-3 full-size fighters. Those have been sold in limited sale for $ 1250 each. Which is admittedly crazy.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on November 24, 2014, 11:45:23 PM
This shit is more complicated than derivatives trading.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on November 24, 2014, 11:48:48 PM
And has been invalidated by the new release of the Javelin Destroyer for $2500 which is the new biggest nonStarship in the nonGalaxy!

Any guess about what the price of Cruisers will be?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on November 25, 2014, 12:58:47 AM
Or even perhaps, a BattleCruiser?

 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on November 25, 2014, 03:01:54 AM
BattleCruiser $3000


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: UnSub on November 25, 2014, 05:43:08 AM
This shit is more complicated than derivatives trading.

Except in derivatives trading there's a chance that more than one person will get rich while doing it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on November 25, 2014, 05:47:24 AM
This shit is more complicated than derivatives trading.

Probably more, I at least understand derivatives trading to a degree. I don't get this at all.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on November 25, 2014, 06:26:38 AM
BattleCruiser $3000
:thumbs_up:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: calapine on November 25, 2014, 06:56:26 AM

BattleCruiser 3000 American Dollars

there  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on November 25, 2014, 09:25:25 AM
BattleCruiser $3000
At this rate 30.000 more like. But I see what you did there :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on November 27, 2014, 03:02:41 PM
I know you've all been waiting for it.  Get 'em while they're hot:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14335-Introducing-The-Javelin-Destroyer


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on November 27, 2014, 03:03:21 PM
CIG just released a detailed presentation of the Javelin (at least in its current state), the Destroyer-class ship (yep, the $2500 one):

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14335-Introducing-The-Javelin-Destroyer

Intended only for group/organization play (although it looks we'll get aboard one in the early stages of the single-player campaign), among other things it features an hangar that can accomodate a lot of smaller ships.
------

The Caterpillar, which I think was first unveiled during or immediately after the original funding campaign, also got a dedicated article:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14331-Raid-Commander-The-Drake-Caterpillar

Quote
WHAT MAKES THE CATERPILLAR COOL?

The phrase ‘fighting transport’ may seem like a contradiction in terms, but it’s accurate here! The Caterpillar is intended to be the centerpiece of pirate raids in the Star Citizen world. Imagine teaming up with your friends to attack a shipping convoy: a squadron of Cutlasses for cover and interdiction, a Herald for Electronic Warfare duties and a Caterpillar for the dirty work. The Caterpillar is highly modular, and can be configured for a number of different roles… even the command pod detaches for a quick getaway. The ‘Cat is also intended as a platform for boarding operations. Pirates can martial their shock troops aboard the ship and then force their way onto larger targets like frigates and cruisers!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on November 27, 2014, 11:51:11 PM
Quote
Pirates can martial their shock troops aboard the ship and then force their way onto larger targets like frigates and cruisers!

The (cynical) realist in me wants to cringe every time they promise stuff like this but somehow there's still a very tiny part left that wonders (hopelessly) if they might actually succeed in creating something that will actually be fun.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: DraconianOne on November 28, 2014, 08:45:08 AM
Forget spaceships, this is the announcement I've been waiting for.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14336-Letter-From-The-Chairman (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14336-Letter-From-The-Chairman)

Quote
Pets – We have repair bots, we have fish… but we haven’t implemented a traditional pet system in Star Citizen yet. At $64 million, that changes. From Jones the Cat in Alien to the Battlestar Galactica’s Daggit, pets have a place onboard starships… and we want to give you that option in Star Citizen. Expect traditional terrestrial options, plus anything exotic we can dream up in the Star Citizen universe! (Those Torshu Grey crabs that keep escaping are just the start.) This stretch goal is in honor of Paddington, Strike Dog of the UEES Paul Steed. In one of our first videos Paddington helped us get to $4 million back in the initial campaign, and sadly passed away recently.

Count me in!


 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on November 28, 2014, 08:57:44 AM
Next up, a comprehensive pet battle system with location based damage and a physics engine.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on November 28, 2014, 09:01:41 AM
I propose a Pikachu class Pet Carrier!!

(https://www.tinkercad.com/things/3dxHad12HH4/t725.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on November 28, 2014, 09:02:53 AM
Can we put our pets in little space suits and launch them from torpedo tubes as shock troops?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on November 28, 2014, 09:26:38 AM
Can we put our pets in little space suits and launch them from torpedo tubes as shock troops?


At $100 million.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on November 28, 2014, 09:44:54 AM
Quote
Pirates can martial their shock troops aboard the ship and then force their way onto larger targets like frigates and cruisers!

The (cynical) realist in me wants to cringe every time they promise stuff like this but somehow there's still a very tiny part left that wonders (hopelessly) if they might actually succeed in creating something that will actually be fun.

The problem is that you imagine what it's like to watch that in a movie and it is exciting.  And then you imagine what it's like to actually do in a game and it's like 5 hours sitting around setting it up and then oops our ship got blown up before we could even get on the enemy ship.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on November 29, 2014, 10:14:59 PM
Can we breed our pets, to finally realize the dream of space sex geckos?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on December 01, 2014, 03:10:07 PM
An easy way to get to $100 million would be to offer robot waifus a la Freedom Wars.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on December 01, 2014, 04:14:29 PM
Quote
Pirates can martial their shock troops aboard the ship and then force their way onto larger targets like frigates and cruisers!

The (cynical) realist in me wants to cringe every time they promise stuff like this but somehow there's still a very tiny part left that wonders (hopelessly) if they might actually succeed in creating something that will actually be fun.

The problem is that you imagine what it's like to watch that in a movie and it is exciting.  And then you imagine what it's like to actually do in a game and it's like 5 hours sitting around setting it up and then oops our ship got blown up before we could even get on the enemy ship.
So basically Eve Online then?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on December 01, 2014, 05:05:17 PM
Quote
Pirates can martial their shock troops aboard the ship and then force their way onto larger targets like frigates and cruisers!

The (cynical) realist in me wants to cringe every time they promise stuff like this but somehow there's still a very tiny part left that wonders (hopelessly) if they might actually succeed in creating something that will actually be fun.

The problem is that you imagine what it's like to watch that in a movie and it is exciting.  And then you imagine what it's like to actually do in a game and it's like 5 hours sitting around setting it up and then oops our ship got blown up before we could even get on the enemy ship.
So basically Eve Online then?

Eve Online without the unique political/system ownership system that at least makes the tedium worth it in the end.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on December 02, 2014, 07:27:40 AM
Don't worry, I'm sure that will be in one of the stretch goals.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on December 02, 2014, 03:52:58 PM
Who needs politics when you have meticulously modeled space crates to hide in?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on December 03, 2014, 01:13:43 AM
Well, if nothing else they have the scammers part down already :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on December 03, 2014, 01:53:11 AM
Can we breed our pets captured slaves, to finally realize the dream of space sex geckos sultan?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Job601 on December 03, 2014, 08:04:23 AM
Who needs politics when you have meticulously modeled space crates to hide in?

Have they released any information about the space crate polygon counts?  Will they be sufficiently high detail to hold your attention?  Perhaps they could have space tv to watch inside the space crates while you're waiting for someone to load you into your hull. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on December 03, 2014, 08:16:05 AM
No, they'll just look like crates, but the inside textures will be missing, so they'll be transparent from the inside.  Until they "fix the bug" after about a year, to everyone's dismay.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on December 03, 2014, 12:04:13 PM
Can we breed our pets captured slaves, to finally realize the dream of space sex geckos sultan?
My robot waifu proposal handles that. You buy "slots" (number of robots that can follow you around at a time) and robots separately (e.g. you can have 2 slots and 3 robots, and only 2 of the 3 robots can be out at a time). So as long as you have the money you can have as big a harem as you want :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on December 03, 2014, 12:31:30 PM
Think they'll cut us in on some of the action if we start feeding them new amazing ideas to fleece people with?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on December 03, 2014, 01:12:44 PM
I'm waiting for them to sell booster packs of items :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on December 03, 2014, 03:50:33 PM
Possibly even free drafts for life?

 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on December 03, 2014, 04:09:19 PM
Possibly even free drafts for life?

 :why_so_serious:

Ho Ho Ho


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on December 04, 2014, 09:55:14 AM
http://www.tentonhammer.com/editorial/stop-funding-star-citizen

Quote
Star Citizen, without question, has plenty of money. Seeking and allowing the receipt of more doesn’t necessarily mean the game will be a success neither does it mean that with even more money they’ll be able to accomplish the impossible. I don’t believe any company, irrespective of budget or experience, could achieve what Cloud Imperium are proposing. By taking even more money they are piling further pressure upon themselves and living player expectation further. I really want Star Citizen to be a success but years covering and playing games in the industry leave me very skeptical. If they actually powered on with development instead of pushing imaginary ships that cost $2500 when there isn’t a shred of a game there, it feels like a con rather than an investment.

What a fascinating new take on Star Citizen  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on December 04, 2014, 10:00:37 AM
The comments are what one would expect, but still a fun read if you find zealots as hilarious as I do.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mithas on December 04, 2014, 10:04:48 AM
The comments are what one would expect, but still a fun read if you find zealots as hilarious as I do.

I was just going to post that. Man some people really get worked up over this.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on December 04, 2014, 10:53:45 AM
It's how you know this has gone over into cult.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on December 04, 2014, 12:11:23 PM
Possibly even free drafts for life?

 :why_so_serious:
I meant more like Plants vs Zombies Garden Warfare but that works too.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: WayAbvPar on December 04, 2014, 12:17:23 PM
Thanks for the reminder- have a draft token to burn before 5:48PM today  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on December 09, 2014, 04:03:54 AM
The last "letter from the chairman", among other things, highlighted their current design for the Multi-crew ship systems, which will be implemented first in the single-player campaign (rest of the crew will be NPCs, of course) then find its way into the PU.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14354-Letter-From-The-Chairman-Multi-Crew-Ship-Systems

Sounds basically impossible to implement at its fullest, but you know how things roll at CIG  :grin:

If you are vaguely interested about it, even if that means reading then making fun of it, read the post; I'll try to summarize:
------------------

- Capital ship systems will be an even more complex beast; they'll write a dedicated post about them in the near future
- Other players and/or NPCs will be able to man the turrets (if available), but that's different from the proper "crew stations"

- "Crew stations" are fixed positions inside the ship: monitors that you will need to interact with in order to access more in-depth systems, as detailed in this excerpt:

Quote
Shield Management: The shield management action gives the user more granular control of the ship’s shields and generators:

Reinforce shield segments which increases the segments’ maximum expansion potential as well as prioritizing its recharge position
Boost the recharge of shield segments which have been damaged
Tune the generator to be more effective in one of three areas: shield strength, recharge rate or recovery time

Radar Ops: On a basic level the radar ops action allows you to identify targets, easing the workload of the pilot. This action will be expanded to include the ability to send commands to other fleet members:

Identify targets so that the pilot does not need to
Focus the radar array to find potentially hidden targets
Flag weakened targets, allies in distress or particularly dangerous enemies
Scan and identify sub-systems on larger ships

EWAR: The electronic warfare station gives you the ability to hinder an opponent’s systems, bringing a new tactical edge to dogfighting. Use of the EWAR suite requires the installation of a specialised electronic warfare module which generates the effect in a radius. You can also fit an emitter to target specific enemies. Electronic warfare breaks down into the following areas:

- Dampening: Reduce the range of opponent systems
- Disruption: Hinder the operation of opponent systems
- Disable: Disable an enemy system, forcing them to restart it
- Debuff: Make the opponent more vulnerable

Communications: The most basic form of communication will allow you to open a channel to another vessel, set up a conference call or deliver information data such as cargo manifests or ship complement. However, when additional components are slotted, automated messages become available for you to use. For example if your ship has a docking ring, you may request to dock with another ship with a docking ring.

Fuel: On a basic level this action will enable you to decide which tank is being refuelled via the ship’s hydrogen scoops. Players with a refuelling arm gain additional functions for managing, refining and refuelling.

Scanning: The information that appears on this action depends on what scanner array you have installed.

Avionics and CPU: This action allows you more granular control of the ship’s avionics package specifically relating to CPU power. For example, you may prioritize certain systems, such as ITTS or missile lock, to gain a marginal deduction in lock-on time.

Power Management: Every component and weapon fitted to your vessel will appear in the power management screen. At multi-crew level you gain more control over the individual power level each component is receiving.

Navigation: This is where you might plan a route to another star system or plot a series of waypoints. Additional information will be made available to you such as fuel usage, time to destination and speed-through-point. These tools will allow you to generate routes based on fuel efficiency or time taken.

With small multi-crew ships (2-4 or more) you will be able to hire a full NPC crew. Dunno about capital ships, but they're probably intended for big groups/guild play, so they might be staffed by PCs only.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on December 09, 2014, 04:41:32 AM
The really important question they don't answer is, will you be able to play games on these sub-system computers when there's nothing to do, and will there be boss key in case your captain comes over to have a look? :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on December 09, 2014, 06:56:18 AM
The really important question they don't answer is, will you be able to play games on these sub-system computers when there's nothing to do, and will there be boss key in case your captain comes over to have a look? :why_so_serious:

I think it will be just like downtime in a normal multiplayer environment: glorified chat, voice comms with other people, check some stuff related to your character (auctions and other things) and so on.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on December 09, 2014, 07:15:51 AM
this will be a pretty good 25 dollar game, built on the tears of multi-thousand dollar backers who built cult compounds in the sky


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: slog on December 09, 2014, 01:15:06 PM
Quote
it seems outrageous that even after they’ve well and truly broken the $60,000,000 barrier they still want and are accepting more

 :ye_gods:

60 million?  Really?  I had no idea it was that high.  Duke Nukem meets Daikatana, except MMO.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on December 11, 2014, 02:22:22 AM
The Fleet controls on hookers don't pay for themselves you know.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on December 19, 2014, 11:54:42 AM
Earlier in the thread I posted about a guy who spent a lot of money on this. I had a beer with him and a friend today. He came clean. He has spent about $18,500 so far. We suggested that he seek professional help ASAP.
Does he know he's been the victim of a con or is the type to spend money on this the actual stupidest sort of person?
He believes he is getting a game he can play for decades. He is convinced that it is going to be so popular that what he has spent will be equivalent to an actual investment. His wife moved out. My other buddy and I think she is positioning for divorce. It's some scary as fuck self delusion.

Any news on this guy?  I've been morbidly curious for a while, and a friend is working on a blog article about Space Ponzi so naturally I thought of this story.  Did he ever seek professional help?  Is he living in a van down by the river?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on December 19, 2014, 06:10:10 PM
So, today has been an eventful day, at least for SC crawling pace :D. All the stuff below was announced during a 3+ hrs livestream  on the SC twitch channel (now archived there; will probably be reposted on YT)

----------------------------------


- First things first, The main page of the official website has been overhauled:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14395-Rebuilt-The-New-RSI-Home

Actual content is more or less the same, for now, minus the "about the game" section, with some updated videos and paragraphs showcasing the game.

New trailer for the game, originally fan-made (here's the original one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceBbcT7S2_Q) ) then adapted by CIG with some new footage here and there (especially toward the end, and of course with the consent of the "real" author):

"Imagine: Star Citizen" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJJ9TcGxhNY)

- Arena Commander 1.0 has now been released. It's a 20GB download, with a HUGE update to..well, basically everything. Read below:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14390-Arena-Commander-10-Released

There are now about 20 flyable ships in-game, almost all the single-seaters models and their respective variants, including the long awaited Avenger. As a bonus, they also included the base model for the Cutlass, which is actually considered multi-crew (two seaters).


- The (OMG Mosquitos!!!) Mustang (new starter ship, including the variants) has finally been unveiled, it's purchasable as a standalone ship or a starter game package, and included in AC 1.0. Trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR07oZC0QHU (what the hell is up with that accent? :P)
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14389-Say-Goodbye-To-The-Familiar-The-Brand-New-Mustang

- Brief new update regarding the Idris Frigate: looking more and more badass (should be heavily featured in S42 episode 1, probably the first big ship you will serve onboard)

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14386-Idris-Frigate-Gallery

- Introducing the Pegasus Escort Carrier, currently in all its "grey-box" glory....Poor "small" thing (BIG image in the spoiler) :P

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14393-Introducing-The-Pegasus-Escort-Carrier




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on January 30, 2015, 06:22:12 PM
As the project currently rakes in about $71.5M, this week CIG went to PAX South in order to hold a "Star Citizen Town Hall" entirely dedicated to the Persistent Universe portion of the project.

They held three panels, plus a "Game Ideas" forum, and finally a wrap-up presentation (here (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14421-Star-Citizen-Town-Hall-At-PAX-South) is the original, pre-event post on the website). They're all on YT on the Star Citizen Channel (just look for the town hall ones, should be easy to spot), each about one hour long, with much rambling and "you know's" involved :P.

Still, Gamers Nexus came to the rescue and posted a nice, 10 minutes long video summary of the "wrap-up" presentation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hFsVBU-FBU
----

Regarding their current module schedule:

- End of March/beginning of Apri ------> Social Module
- Around the same time, the FPS beta should come out
- Autumn 2015 -----> first episode of Squadron 42
- End of 2015 -------> First "loop" of the Persistent Universe (planetside+space+trading+fps) with maybe a couple systems

Also, today they posted a very interesting design article about the mobiGlas, an "augmented reality" interface that will allow us (through in-game apps) to access various info about shops, weather, npc/player info and more:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14466-Design-MobiGlas

Three big images (more at the link):



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maven on January 30, 2015, 10:21:15 PM
I almost forgot about this game. I take it there has not been any new cash grabs released on the store?

10+ mil since December, damn. Even showing up at a con to discuss the game must net them tens of thousands in new donations. Fleecing the sheep.

Second screenshot: Is that being able to Yelp any player? That has terrible implications....


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: WayAbvPar on January 30, 2015, 10:27:46 PM
For  $71.5M couldn't they just buy a town to have a town hall in?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on January 30, 2015, 11:30:03 PM
Failure or success, no matter how this turns out the results are going to be epic in their own way.

Personally I cant wait for the realization to sink in for the people who have spent thousands of dollars on this, that they spent thousands of dollars on shit that isn't real.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on January 31, 2015, 08:59:24 PM
For  $71.5M couldn't they just buy a town to have a town hall in?

It wouldn't be the first! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyUMytNKa0c


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on February 07, 2015, 09:51:25 AM
New monthly report (January 2015):

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14481-Monthly-Report-January

New (and very in-depth) Design Document: Shields Management
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14489-Design-Shields-Management

Excerpt:
Quote
In Star Citizen, shields react uniquely depending on the kinds of forces they are deflecting, with energy weapons being absorbed entirely (chipping away faster at the health of the shields) or with ballistic weapons simply being slowed to weaken the impact that does make it through (inflicting reduced but lasting damage). The higher power shields specialize by splitting that output among multiple faces, and by better deflecting splash damage, for example. Augmentation items can be used to push these effects even further, or to find a middle ground relative to the more standard shield setups.
By bolstering the direct fire absorption of their all-purpose shield generator line, Seal Corporation’s INK-Mark generator sacrifices some resistance to splash damage to allow a ship to better weather a focused attack.By bolstering the direct fire absorption of their all-purpose shield generator line, Seal Corporation’s INK-Mark generator sacrifices some resistance to splash damage to allow a ship to better weather a focused attack. Focus on improving the splash damage absorption of their all-purpose shield generator line, Seal Corporation’s INK-Splash generator exchanges some protection from direct fire for extra strength against missiles.Focus on improving the splash damage absorption of their all-purpose shield generator line, Seal Corporation’s INK-Splash generator exchanges some protection from direct fire for extra strength against missiles.

We’ve just completed the first round of variant shield generators, representing 2 variant styles with size 1-4 models available. When setting these generators up, we first roughed out a general set of variant styles to help set a baseline for how they’ll perform in game. After that, we brought in David and Will to help us sort out which of our component manufactures would really be producing these kinds of equipment.
Here are some of the high-level shield variations we’ve been thinking of. Not all of these are built out, but it serves as a reference point when helping to figure out who makes what:

    Military – High Damage, High Recharge, High Power Use, High Signal

    Stealth – Low Damage, Low Power Use, Low Signal

    Civilian – Everything’s Even

    Racer – Low Damage, Rapid Recharge

    Industrial – High Damage, Low Recharge, Low Power Use, High Signal

    Outlaw – Weird Stuff – Vampire Shields, Flux Shields, etc.

Next, manufactures were assigned to the high-level ideas:

    Military – Gorgon Defender Industries

    Stealth – Ascension Astro (or Lightning Power LTD)

    Civilian – Seal Corp (Average), Behring (high end)

    Racer – Yorm

    Industrial – Basilisk

    Outlaw – SternenKatzen

Now on to the variant styles. These are the 6 styles we’ve started to build out and get ready for use, along with their high-level role and assigned manufacture.

    Rapid Charge – Low recharge delay and high recharge value, offset by weaker base shields with lower HP. – Racer (Yorm)

    Durable Item – Reinforced components with strong component HP and boosted shield HP at the expense of a higher signal. – Industrial (Basilisk)

    Direct Damage Shell – Improved direct fire absorption with reduced splash damage absorb. – Civilian (Behring or Seal)

    Splash Damage Guard – Improved splash damage absorption with reduced direct fire absorb. – Civilian (Behring or Seal)

    Second Skin – Improved overall damage absorption with higher power draw. – Military (Gorgon)

    Hard Light – Substantially improved shield HP and absorption with increased Heat generation. – Military (Gorgon)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: fang on February 07, 2015, 08:25:57 PM

Quote
By bolstering the direct fire absorption of their all-purpose shield generator line, Seal Corporation’s INK-Mark generator sacrifices some resistance to splash damage to allow a ship to better weather a focused attack.By bolstering the direct fire absorption of their all-purpose shield generator line, Seal Corporation’s INK-Mark generator sacrifices some resistance to splash damage to allow a ship to better weather a focused attack. Focus on improving the splash damage absorption of their all-purpose shield generator line, Seal Corporation’s INK-Splash generator exchanges some protection from direct fire for extra strength against missiles.Focus on improving the splash damage absorption of their all-purpose shield generator line, Seal Corporation’s INK-Splash generator exchanges some protection from direct fire for extra strength against missiles.

Was someone having a stroke when they were editing this?


Quote
We’ve just completed the first round of variant shield generators, representing 2 variant styles with size 1-4 models available. When setting these generators up, we first roughed out a general set of variant styles to help set a baseline for how they’ll perform in game. After that, we brought in David and Will to help us sort out which of our component manufactures would really be producing these kinds of equipment.

    Military – Gorgon Defender Industries

    Stealth – Ascension Astro (or Lightning Power LTD)

    Civilian – Seal Corp (Average), Behring (high end)

    Racer – Yorm

    Industrial – Basilisk

    Outlaw – SternenKatzen

Oh, thank goodness they're prioritizing the identification of the imaginary corporations that will "produce" these items.  Cause that's what makes a good game.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on February 17, 2015, 04:26:32 PM
So, I guess this thing is going to let you rent ships?

http://www.pcgamesn.com/star-citizen/not-everyones-a-fan-of-star-citizen-s-ship-rental-system

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14502-Design-Rental-Equipment-Credits

Quote
With Arena Commander 1.1, we intend to roll out a system called REC, or Rental Equipment Credits. In essence, you will be able to earn credits to rent equipment to use in Arena Commander by playing Arena Commander’s ranked modes. We want to reward backers for their time spent with the early game with a more expansive experience, not prevent them from accessing things that will be readily available in the Persistent Universe. You’ll still be able to support the development of the game by pledging for ships and weapons, and these will carry across into the Persistent Universe but you will no longer have to contribute additional money to fly a different ship or use a new weapon; You’ll have a choice. Spend time playing the game, which will earn REC to be spent on ships and weapons for use in Arena Commander or pledge for these items, supporting the ongoing development and running costs of the game. It’s the classic time vs money proposition and either way you’ll be helping making Arena Commander and Star Citizen better! This is always how the final game was intended to work and we’ve decided that we need to bring this dynamic into play sooner than later!


I dunno.  Whatever at this point.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on February 17, 2015, 04:54:21 PM
That sounds like you're renting them with in-game currency instead of real money. Not sure how that could be a bad thing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on February 17, 2015, 05:00:05 PM
Except that you have to earn that in-game currency from winning PvP matches.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on February 17, 2015, 05:15:10 PM
I mostly meant by comparison to having to buy them with hundreds of real dollars.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on February 21, 2015, 05:49:53 AM
As the game reaches the $73M mark in funding, CIG dished out some more interesting material, including a detailed design post about Mining and how it's going to work (at least at this planning stage) in Star Citizen.

First of all, here is the RSI Orion, premiere mining platform (the mining design post, linked further below, includes a video animation as well):
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14518-Rugged-Colossus-Orion-Mining-Platform

Quote
The RSI Orion is mankind’s premiere spatial mining platform, featuring multiple independent mining drones, an onboard refinery and a system of saddlebag-class storage units.

For advanced mining operations, the RSI Orion is second to none. The Orion carries a crew of up to six, responsible for flight operations, engineering and manning both turrets and pre-installed drone interfaces.

Onboard accommodations, while industrial in style, support all crew for extended duration mining runs. A genuine complete mining solution, a single Orion can locate, identify and extract lucrative ores, or it can be paired with explorers and transports to form the centerpiece of a larger-scale mining operation! Get to the core of the matter with the all-new RSI Orion.
----------

Star Citizen career: Mining (by Tony Zurovec, Persistent Universe Director)
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14522-Star-Citizen-Careers-Mining

Snippet:
Quote
The first of several occupations we’ll be aiming to detail over the ensuing months is mining. In many ways, it is representative of the basic design goals for all of the occupations within Star Citizen.

Mining presents players with a variety of challenges requiring skill and intelligence, whereas mindless repetition of a task and idle drudgery are explicitly avoided. There are no aspects of mining that allow a player to simply press a button and wait without concern for a result, or that require players to perform an action repeatedly without some element of thought and/or dexterity coming into play.

Ample amounts of dangerous situations are afforded, despite the fact that combat isn’t inherent in any fundamental aspect of the effort. The most valuable materials will often reside deep within a dense field, the result of less experienced pilots being unable to extricate them without suffering serious damage to their ship. Compressed pockets of gas, volatile materials that can explode in the presence of excessive energy (which is required in some capacity in order to liberate the ore from its parent asteroid), and elements that can explode when subjected to seismic vibrations as caused by repeated fragmentation operations all present their own unique types of jeopardy. While most miners will seek to actively avoid armed conflict, the reality is that any ship carrying a cargo of valuable ore will present a tempting target to less scrupulous types, rewarding those players that formulate contingency plans in advance, whether that be the hiring of an NPC crew member extremely talented with a defense turret, or investing a portion of the expected profits into hiring an armed escort or two.

Finally, multiple roles of substance are presented, each of which is referred to as a specialist. Every role can occupy the full attention of a player and present sufficient challenge to keep them engaged, or assigned to an NPC whose skills are commensurate with their monthly cost.
-----

Inside CIG: Imaginarium ("Performance Capture" video, about 8m long):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUUlU6RvrQE

Yep, weird  :grin:

- Letter from the Chairman:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14520-Letter-From-The-Chairman

Quote
What I would really like to talk about today is what an exciting time this is in Star Citizen’s development. Building our universe is already the most creatively satisfying thing I’ve ever done. But the coming months are going to be something else. Without sharing internal target dates, I will tell you that we are entering into the tightest schedule we’ve ever had for public releases. In short order, you will see Arena Commander 1.1 (now with REC!), the FPS module and the so-called ‘social module,’ our first foray into the persistent universe. We’ve talked a lot about how Star Citizen will come together from disparate pieces over the past year, and we are now entering into when that happens. I can’t express how excited I am. Will there be unforeseen issues, bugs to squash and things to balance? Yes! …but I know that I have an amazing development team AND the best community ever assembled behind me. Stay tuned: it’s going to be big!

Here's a clarification about the so called "REC" system written by Chris Roberts on the forums:
http://partedveil.com/index.php?p=3&quote=4449786
Quote
One last post before I get sucked down the rabbit hole that is forum debates :-)

I just want to point out that Arena Commander (and the upcoming FPS module) is a test bed. We use it to test, balance, and stress test functionality that will be in Star Citizen and Squadron 42. Along the way we decided it would be cool / useful to have it be a game within a game so players could learn and train without having to risk their hard earned ship and weapons in the PU. Until SC is finished, AC is very much a work in progress that is more a test bed than final, polished game.

Yes we have added game like functionality; leader boards, different game modes the proposed REC system but its really all for test reasons. By "gamefying" our test bed we hopefully make it fun for people to spend time in it which helps us make SC better in the long run. Part of what I think is the revolutionary aspect of how we are developing SC is that we try to make following and participating in the development of the game fun for everyone in the community that wants to participate.

Where it becomes frustrating is when people start treating AC like a finished game and making assumptions on how SC will turn out based on a very much work in progress (and changing) AC, which only affords a small window into what Star Citizen and Squadron 42 will be like.

REC is something that takes extra work to implement and wasn't in our original development plans but it is something that we think is definitely worth doing. Only this past week I reinforced to the Area Commander team that "AC Bucks" (REC) was not something we could push back and re-prioritized other tasks to make this possible for AC v1.1.

So yes, I got a little exasperated when after making a requested community feature a priority to get accused of turning SC into a "freemium" game with all sorts of "grind". The point of REC isn't to decide on the game economics or prices for weapons, or turn SC into some sort of the Korean MMO grind fest, its purely to allow a route for players to earn things by playing so they aren't forced to pledge for them but this is entirely optional. Just like no one needs to do anything more than pledge for the most basic ship, no one needs to spend a minute of their time in AC. If you do then we are grateful to have your participation and you'll be making a better game.

REC allows us to give an incentive for certain parts of the game to get tested. Right now testing different player ships against other player ships is more important for the ongoing balance of the game, which is why REC is focused on the PvP side of AC. We recognize that people don't want to be put into the current completely open bear pit that is ranked AC games, so we're also working on the ability to have brackets to match players of similar ships and / or skill in games and also allow people to opt out of the public leader boards. This will be after v1.1 though.

There is nothing to stop us from deciding that we need some more focus on PvE - perhaps a mining scenario we want to test out and so we reward players with REC if they mine a certain amount or open up REC for Vanduul swarm - although I do believe you need to segregate progression on multiplayer from single player or else you'll just end up with Super Hornet vs Super Hornet in AC multiplayer!

So think of REC as a tool to allow us to encourage a larger player base to focus on areas of gameplay we would like to get a larger sample / bigger stress test on. Its also something that we can give out and not impact the PU (unlike UEC) and there is still nothing stopping us from making a certain ship or weapon free or greatly reduced in REC for a limited period in order to get people to test an area we feel we need more data on.

I hope this helps in understanding our intentions with REC.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on February 21, 2015, 07:55:15 PM
A $325 fucking mining platform? SERIOUSLY?  :ye_gods: :ye_gods: :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on February 21, 2015, 08:33:58 PM
A $325 fucking mining platform? SERIOUSLY?  :ye_gods: :ye_gods: :ye_gods:
To be fair, it's probably cheaper than what a decent mining setup would cost in EVE.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on February 21, 2015, 08:39:28 PM
A $325 fucking mining platform? SERIOUSLY?  :ye_gods: :ye_gods: :ye_gods:

Are you actually surprised?  I mean this is exactly what this "game" is known for at this point.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: fang on February 21, 2015, 09:16:56 PM
A $325 fucking mining platform? SERIOUSLY?  :ye_gods: :ye_gods: :ye_gods:

Ah, but this is a special sale, and bear in mind, the price goes up later:

"The Orion is being offered for the first time as a limited concept sale....In the future, the ship price will increase"

So get yours now now NOW!


Quote
Onboard accommodations, while industrial in style, support all crew for extended duration mining runs.

Now why say silly things like this?  Are we to believe that the interior design of the ship (assuming it's even visible in any way) has ANY impact on the gameplay?  What, the thread count of the sheets on the beds improves the ore you get out of your mining operations?  The dishes in the galley are of the finest porcelain, and make the food taste better, so your hired crew are happier and therefore work harder?  Is there going to be a minigame where an onboard butler serves your crew drinks, Tapper-style?


Quote
Ample amounts of dangerous situations are afforded, despite the fact that combat isn’t inherent in any fundamental aspect of the effort. The most valuable materials will often reside deep within a dense field, the result of less experienced pilots being unable to extricate them without suffering serious damage to their ship. Compressed pockets of gas, volatile materials that can explode in the presence of excessive energy (which is required in some capacity in order to liberate the ore from its parent asteroid), and elements that can explode when subjected to seismic vibrations as caused by repeated fragmentation operations all present their own unique types of jeopardy. While most miners will seek to actively avoid armed conflict, the reality is that any ship carrying a cargo of valuable ore will present a tempting target to less scrupulous types, rewarding those players that formulate contingency plans in advance, whether that be the hiring of an NPC crew member extremely talented with a defense turret, or investing a portion of the expected profits into hiring an armed escort or two.

Finally, multiple roles of substance are presented, each of which is referred to as a specialist. Every role can occupy the full attention of a player and present sufficient challenge to keep them engaged, or assigned to an NPC whose skills are commensurate with their monthly cost.

So what's the over/under on ANY of this existing in the game, at any point, ever?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on February 21, 2015, 09:56:47 PM
No, I don't know why I'm still surprised at the blatant fucking ripoffs these ships are... and yet I still am.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on February 22, 2015, 03:32:55 AM
No, I don't know why I'm still surprised at the blatant fucking ripoffs these ships are... and yet I still am.
I got desensitized to the point where if it's not at least 1k, it's not a surprise at all. :uhrr:

Although this is another of the virtual virtual ship sales, so can't say they aren't still trying.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on February 22, 2015, 07:43:08 AM

So what's the over/under on ANY of this existing in the game, at any point, ever?


That is the over/under - "any."

I'll take the under.  I'll be shocked if a single one of those features makes it in.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: UnSub on February 23, 2015, 08:23:39 AM
A $325 fucking mining platform? SERIOUSLY?  :ye_gods: :ye_gods: :ye_gods:

Star Citizen is mining something, and it isn't virtual asteroids.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on February 23, 2015, 08:46:31 AM
It completely blows my mind that any part of their business model is legal.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on February 23, 2015, 09:29:19 AM
It completely blows my mind that any part of their business model is legal.

If they don't deliver anything, and if they crash and burn, this is big enough now where a smart lawyer will come after him with a class action and make millions. Because continually selling items while making promises with no hope of actually backing them up? That's false advertising.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on February 23, 2015, 09:48:08 AM
Say what you want about Elite: Dangerous being kind of boring, but they've at least delivered what they promised.  These two games represent pretty much everything about the industry right now.  One game makes outlandish promises and makes millions based on dreams, the other promised a very specific niche product and actually made it.  They aren't without fault over there at Frontier, but we need more of that and less of this in this industry.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tazelbain on February 23, 2015, 10:08:30 AM
Spring Time for Star Hitler


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hutch on February 23, 2015, 11:13:41 AM
Ja? Your Mining Platform is working as expected, sir. Ja.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maven on February 23, 2015, 11:21:46 AM
I don't even know what this game is anymore. ((Eve + Privateer) x Farmville) ^ Molyneux = Star Citizen? This game wouldn't have made it this far with a publisher looking out for things like feature creep and legal culpability.

God, could you imagine pitching this game to someone who isn't a dreamer and understands risks?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on February 23, 2015, 02:05:05 PM
The more I read the comments on this topic, the more I understand  what Phil Connors went through in Punxsutawney.

Where's my Andie McDowell?  :heart:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on February 23, 2015, 03:42:19 PM
Man, when did the thread title change.  I is laughing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on February 23, 2015, 03:46:26 PM
Schild, you should contact Roberts and see if he'll sell access to this thread for $325 with 50% of the proceeds going to funding f13 costs.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on February 24, 2015, 01:16:05 AM
...dude the board is operational and posting privileges is ACTIVE.
It's a steal compared to a PROMISED Star Forge in a $60 game that has yet to be released.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ezrast on February 24, 2015, 10:48:10 PM
I don't know; this all looks pre-rendered to me.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on February 24, 2015, 11:01:54 PM
We'll add a special statue just for you if you contribute $1000.
For an additional $200, schild will have a candlelit dinner with you. Plane tickets not included.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Abagadro on February 24, 2015, 11:29:10 PM
Does it include coq au vin? I might be in if it does.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sophismata on February 25, 2015, 12:50:56 AM
Sounds like a solid investment for the future.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on February 25, 2015, 04:43:21 AM
It's my theory, very much a work in progress, that people are fairly disaffected with gaming and are increasingly willing to be sold on hopes and dreams. In many cases they back a KS essentially only so that they can fall asleep that night dreaming about a cool game that in their heart of hearts they know they'll never get to play, then move on to the next game before that one even releases.

People are paying for things to stimulate their imaginations. When they buy a $300 spaceship they aren't even buying that eventual spaceship in game - they're paying to lend plausibility to their fantasies.

Games get hyped for months or years then are immediately forgotten on release. (Example: Evolve) Essentially people are moving on before the games even come out. The joy that comes from imagination and anticipation is stronger than the joy that comes from playing finished titles. Seems very unhealthy for the industry.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on February 25, 2015, 06:50:46 AM
While I think there is some merit to that idea, but I think that this is an exceptional.  Hopefully it stays that way.

The thing is with a lot of these backing/early access games is that people really ARE playing them a lot.  It's just that early access is sort of the new release and by the time games come out people are already bored of them.  I think you are right that early access/beta helps people justify things by thinking "this is going to be so great when it's done" or whatever.  So maybe by the time it comes out the hopes are dashed a bit when it doesn't deliver.  It's just an unprecedented time, everyone is kind of figuring out this new model as we go.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on February 25, 2015, 08:25:20 AM
I stimulate my imagination for free, I see no reason to pay for that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on February 25, 2015, 03:46:41 PM
Was this Glassdoor link (http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Cloud-Imperium-Games-Reviews-E776546.htm?sort.sortType=RD&sort.ascending=false) posted yet?



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on February 25, 2015, 04:10:17 PM
Quote
Don't dare criticize the game or the CEO publicly.

I keep seeing this from obviously young people. Are they all no naff as to not understand you don't shit where you eat?  I'm certain the culture hasn't really shifted to the point this is acceptable elsewhere, so why on earth do they think it's ok with their place of employ?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Torinak on February 25, 2015, 06:09:50 PM
Quote
Don't dare criticize the game or the CEO publicly.

I keep seeing this from obviously young people. Are they all no naff as to not understand you don't shit where you eat?  I'm certain the culture hasn't really shifted to the point this is acceptable elsewhere, so why on earth do they think it's ok with their place of employ?


In this case, the reviewer is talking about fans issuing death threats against his family.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on February 25, 2015, 06:24:06 PM
Quote
Funding is being spent on excess rather than necessities, along with gimmicks to keep the gravy coming in rather than delivering the actual content promised initially.
Dude/dudette thought they're actually trying to ship something; no wonder got fired.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on February 25, 2015, 06:24:17 PM
Was this Glassdoor link (http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Cloud-Imperium-Games-Reviews-E776546.htm?sort.sortType=RD&sort.ascending=false) posted yet?
Reminds me of Red 5 Studios -- basically CEO should not be CEO.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on February 25, 2015, 06:27:41 PM
From another review:

Quote
Concerns at least one fan may commit suicide if product does not meet expectations.

well, at least they're aware :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on February 25, 2015, 08:18:11 PM
I'm totally not surprised that fans are crazy and stalk devs.  It does blow though :(


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on February 25, 2015, 08:29:16 PM
No it doesn't. It's a fucking cult, not a development house.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on February 25, 2015, 10:39:34 PM
No it doesn't. It's a fucking cult, not a development house.

It's like what this article is talking about

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/829607/daily/78/holy-pig.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Zetor on February 25, 2015, 10:49:26 PM
Hmm. Reading those reviews, my #1 question was: why would a worker bee care so much (or even be aware of, except for outrageous things like the Firefall bus) about how 'backer money' is spent? Though I can totally imagine that there is a massive display showing the total amount of $$$ raised so far somewhere in the center of the office -- the kind that televangelists would use.  :awesome_for_real:

I get the impression that even if the reviews are trolls / fake, they are not too far from reality...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Torinak on February 25, 2015, 11:04:06 PM
Hmm. Reading those reviews, my #1 question was: why would a worker bee care so much (or even be aware of, except for outrageous things like the Firefall bus) about how 'backer money' is spent? Though I can totally imagine that there is a massive display showing the total amount of $$$ raised so far somewhere in the center of the office -- the kind that televangelists would use.  :awesome_for_real:

I get the impression that even if the reviews are trolls / fake, they are not too far from reality...

If management insists that the only way for the project to succeed (and for you to keep your job) is to satisfy the backers yet the "backer money" is getting thrown away on low-priority things, that might raise some issues...at least as much so as for anyone who sees their employer wasting money or doing dumb things. And few things kill morale as quickly as being told that there's not enough money for competitive salaries and benefits while there are visible signs of significant waste.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Abagadro on February 25, 2015, 11:24:39 PM
Quote
Don't dare criticize the game or the CEO publicly.

I keep seeing this from obviously young people. Are they all no naff as to not understand you don't shit where you eat?  I'm certain the culture hasn't really shifted to the point this is acceptable elsewhere, so why on earth do they think it's ok with their place of employ?


From the context it sounded like he criticized it publicly after leaving and was then doxed/threatened.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on February 25, 2015, 11:31:10 PM
Anyone that works on this stupid game that isn't immediately given a bonus of $1,000,000 in exchange for 5-7 years of their life + Salary needs to find a new fucking job.

Talk about becoming an untouchable in the industry.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on February 26, 2015, 12:33:06 AM
Was this Glassdoor link (http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Cloud-Imperium-Games-Reviews-E776546.htm?sort.sortType=RD&sort.ascending=false) posted yet?

- the fans are fucking nuts god help us they are going to kill us they will literally kill us they are completely insane please send help

- ceo needs to cut back on departmental expenditure on cristal and blow

- vp of marketing demands not to have the 'taint of female presence' corrupting his aura and demands areas be as female free as possible during his visits

- game had more potential as a merely impossible game, but now we would be killed trying to fulfill the new layers of impossible demands on development just to get back to the nitty gritty of the initially impossible game vision

- 10/10 it was okay


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on February 26, 2015, 02:07:16 AM
I like that 2 different people mentioned company money spent on expensive dinners.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on February 26, 2015, 02:10:37 AM
I've been to some events for some very popular companies from dinners of 12 people to parties of 200 that were HILARIOUS wastes of fucking money. It's what happens in an industry full of manchildren. That people are posting on glassdoor about it says they do it too often.

I guarantee despite the moneypit this place is, they could buy expensive dinners every night and it wouldn't effect the budget.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on February 26, 2015, 02:13:03 AM
I like that 2 different people mentioned company money spent on expensive dinners.
I like that everybody mentioned the fans in a very nervious fashion, even when praising them.  You can practically feel the repressed terror leaking through the text.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on February 26, 2015, 02:18:01 AM
I've been to some events for some very popular companies from dinners of 12 people to parties of 200 that were HILARIOUS wastes of fucking money. It's what happens in an industry full of manchildren. That people are posting on glassdoor about it says they do it too often.

I guarantee despite the moneypit this place is, they could buy expensive dinners every night and it wouldn't effect the budget.

10 pc kfc per person? :D Pizza Dismissal Party?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on February 26, 2015, 04:11:41 AM
I've been to some events for some very popular companies from dinners of 12 people to parties of 200 that were HILARIOUS wastes of fucking money. It's what happens in an industry full of manchildren.

Yeah, some places really love to waste money. I can understand having a nice meetup dinner at GDC or something but why would the company be footing the bill for nice dinners on a regular basis?

Oh right - because all their money is donated and they don't give a shit about wasting donated money.

Quote from: rk47
You can practically feel the repressed terror leaking through the text.

Both terror of fans and also "oh god why are we adding even more features this is going to take 100 years."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on February 26, 2015, 05:23:07 AM
Game development is a business where entire studios get shuttered if development goals aren't met or projects run over budget (or if the CEO has seen a butterfly during his morning commute). Where devs and designers are treated like cattle (aka open plan offices spaces) and earn shit while moving from town to town for each job like fucking carnies.

I totally understand that the rank and file gets angry when management pisses their dev budget away on expensive drinks and meals and all kinds of frivolities, especially since actually finishing the project and delivering a product that is not shit affects their livelyhood or decides if they get fired and have to relocate their entire family for the fourth time. Even more so when their livelyhood might get threatened by rabid fans that spent thousands of dollars on a pipe dream.

The studio heads then turn around a claim the failure on the "uncertainties of large project development" and move on to the next long con while everyone else gets 2 weeks notice and has to clean out their desks till end of business day.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on February 26, 2015, 05:58:04 AM
I wonder if this will be the first game where one of the developers actually gets murdered in a revenge killing over failed promises. That's what that glass door reads like.

I mean some people have to have put their entire savings into this game because they are insane. And I just wonder if they are insane enough to lash out physically at the monster that robbed them.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on February 26, 2015, 06:47:28 AM
I wonder if this will be the first game where one of the developers actually gets murdered in a revenge killing over failed promises. That's what that glass door reads like.

I mean some people have to have put their entire savings into this game because they are insane. And I just wonder if they are insane enough to lash out physically at the monster that robbed them.

:| That's illegal right?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on February 26, 2015, 07:05:49 AM
No, it' just open PvP.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lantyssa on February 26, 2015, 07:19:45 AM
I've been to some events for some very popular companies from dinners of 12 people to parties of 200 that were HILARIOUS wastes of fucking money. It's what happens in an industry full of manchildren.
It's pretty universal.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on February 26, 2015, 07:35:51 AM
This is getting to the point where watching the train wreck isn't even going to be entertaining.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on February 26, 2015, 08:09:49 AM
This is getting to the point where watching the train wreck isn't even going to be entertaining.

It's moved on for me to wondering who is going to end up broke, dead, or in jail.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on February 26, 2015, 10:27:53 AM
Sooooo

(http://i.imgur.com/pRCkqdv.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Zetor on February 26, 2015, 10:32:51 AM
Not even a different store image for the 18.6k pack? What a ripoff.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on February 26, 2015, 10:34:47 AM
Urge to kill...rising.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: DraconianOne on February 26, 2015, 10:36:42 AM
(http://www.nerdice.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Dr-Evil.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rasix on February 26, 2015, 10:36:43 AM
This entire thing is such a cynical commentary on humanity.  Jesus fucking Christ.  I hope he gets sued to hell and back by some dumb asshole's wife after said asshole spent their kids college money on fake spaceships. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on February 26, 2015, 11:02:51 AM
No, it' just open PvP.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/868747/Man-clapping.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on February 26, 2015, 11:09:48 AM
This entire thing is such a cynical commentary on humanity.  Jesus fucking Christ.  I hope he gets sued to hell and back by some dumb asshole's wife after said asshole spent their kids college money on fake spaceships. 

I mentioned a guy earlier in this thread, whom I have worked with extensively over the last decade. I still talk to him and his wife, since they were both friends. She has divorced him, and has full custody of his kids. Their youngest kid and mine play together frequently.

I bought him a beer the other day during our usual get together with a group of other guys. He confessed to now being well over the 20 thousand dollar mark on money spent on star citizen. He is convinced that it is going to be so amazing that he thinks he literally will not have to play any other games for the rest of his life.

I know this story is unbelievable, you don't have to trust me. However, I swear by its truth. The guy literally evangelizes the game to everybody he talks to. He reminds me of those people who get completely sucked into a religious group, his entire life revolves around star citizen right now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyber on February 26, 2015, 11:16:48 AM

I mentioned a guy earlier in this thread, whom I have worked with extensively over the last decade. I still talk to him and his wife, since they were both friends. She has divorced him, and has full custody of his kids. Their youngest kid and mine play together frequently.

I bought him a beer the other day during our usual get together with a group of other guys. He confessed to now being well over the 20 thousand dollar mark on money spent on star citizen. He is convinced that it is going to be so amazing that he thinks he literally will not have to play any other games for the rest of his life.

I know this story is unbelievable, you don't have to trust me. However, I swear by its truth. The guy literally evangelizes the game to everybody he talks to. He reminds me of those people who get completely sucked into a religious group, his entire life revolves around star citizen right now.

The Chris Roberts Kool-Aid is mighty strong!

Did the divorce have anything to do with his "investment" into SC?  That would be a whole other level of tragic...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on February 26, 2015, 11:32:10 AM
This entire thing is such a cynical commentary on humanity.  Jesus fucking Christ.  I hope he gets sued to hell and back by some dumb asshole's wife after said asshole spent their kids college money on fake spaceships.  

I mentioned a guy earlier in this thread, whom I have worked with extensively over the last decade. I still talk to him and his wife, since they were both friends. She has divorced him, and has full custody of his kids. Their youngest kid and mine play together frequently.

I bought him a beer the other day during our usual get together with a group of other guys. He confessed to now being well over the 20 thousand dollar mark on money spent on star citizen. He is convinced that it is going to be so amazing that he thinks he literally will not have to play any other games for the rest of his life.

I know this story is unbelievable, you don't have to trust me. However, I swear by its truth. The guy literally evangelizes the game to everybody he talks to. He reminds me of those people who get completely sucked into a religious group, his entire life revolves around star citizen right now.

I do believe you, but how did he spend 20k? Isn't the "Completist" box only 18600$? Did he buy the whole thing and then some stuff doube, "just in case"?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rasix on February 26, 2015, 11:35:12 AM
I'm sure the earlier per starship pricing was "less kind".  He's probably sitting at home thinking "shit, this could have saved my marriage".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on February 26, 2015, 11:42:02 AM
I do believe you, but how did he spend 20k? Isn't the "Completist" box only 18600$? Did he buy the whole thing and then some stuff doube, "just in case"?

He has multiple accounts. He has multiples of all of the super limited stuff. He believes there is going to be a market for those ships he has collected in the future.

About the whole divorce being related to star citizen purchases, I can say for sure that was the reason his wife left him, since I am friends with her too.  He basically used school loan money on star citizen and dumped what little remaining retirement savings they had into star citizen. She tried to have an intervention for him using myself and a few of his other friends and family. He went off the deep end and accused us of not understanding how important his investment was. By this time she had already moved into her own place, and a few days after the failed intervention, she served him papers. My wife and I still have her over frequently because our kids play together. I only see him on rare occasions when my small group of friends gets together for beers. However, over time he shows up less and less.

Edit: Since my wife is in the loop on star citizen she just about freaked out when I told her I spent like 45 bucks on it while it was still in kickstarter. I had to show her that was all I have spent before she would calm down.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyber on February 26, 2015, 11:48:31 AM

About the whole divorce being related to star citizen purchases, I can say for sure that was the reason his wife left him, since I am friends with her too.  He basically used school loan money on star citizen and dumped what little remaining retirement savings they had into star citizen. She tried to have an intervention for him using myself and a few of his other friends and family. He went off the deep end and accused us of not understanding how important his investment was. By this time she had already moved into her own place, and a few days after the failed intervention, she served him papers. My wife and I still have her over frequently because our kids play together. I only see him on rare occasions when my small group of friends gets together for beers. However, over time he shows up less and less.



That is truly tragic and sad.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on February 26, 2015, 11:58:43 AM
You should email that story to Chris Roberts to congratulate him on the lives he's ruining with his bullshit.

Because he absolutely is ruining lives. I don't think that's an isolated story. I think the way this thing is designed it's one book release away from being Scientology.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on February 26, 2015, 12:24:30 PM
Fuck emails, send it as a paper letter. Those get read.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on February 26, 2015, 12:28:52 PM
Narcissists and sociopaths like Roberts easily wave-away stories with, "These are adults making their own decisions. I can't be responsible for them making bad ones."

As a culture we let people starve on slave wages working 40+ hours a week because, "they made bad decisions," and its all kosher so long as profits remain high. Do you really think a simple marriage break-up story is going to derail a proven gravy train?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on February 26, 2015, 12:32:02 PM
I would feel hesitant paying 18 dollars for any kind of in-game ship, and that is even assuming we have a playable and fun game to begin with.  Were the price tag 180, I would think anyone spending that kind of money on virtual ships was a complete and utter rube.  If the price was 1800, I would be sure that someone was pulling my leg, because there is no way anything in a video game could cost even close to that much.  But 18600?  What the ever living fuck.  I cannot even wrap my mind around that.  You could hire 10 hookers for that money, and still have change leftover for a sack full of blow.  You can buy an actual real car for that.  You could feed a few hundred starving African kids for a long time.  

Who actually clicks on that button and fills in the CC info to complete the payment?  Psychos.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: WayAbvPar on February 26, 2015, 12:53:32 PM
This whole thing is just sad. I found it hilarious for a long time, but stories of kids being subjected to divorce because their dad is a retard breaks my heart. Fuck you own life up 6 ways from Sunday, but once you have a kid you need to unfuck yourself. If you don't think you can do it, sterilize yourself immediately. Fucking shitstain. And fuck Chris Roberts and his fucking ego for allowing this shit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on February 26, 2015, 12:54:52 PM
Narcissists and sociopaths like Roberts easily wave-away stories with, "These are adults making their own decisions. I can't be responsible for them making bad ones."

As a culture we let people starve on slave wages working 40+ hours a week because, "they made bad decisions," and its all kosher so long as profits remain high. Do you really think a simple marriage break-up story is going to derail a proven gravy train?

Of course not. But there are plenty of instances where famous people get letters that really made them think, or the responded with some interesting commentary.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on February 26, 2015, 12:59:14 PM
I've been to some events for some very popular companies from dinners of 12 people to parties of 200 that were HILARIOUS wastes of fucking money. It's what happens in an industry full of manchildren.

This is not in any way unique to game dev. Advertising executives are notorious for this kind of money being pissed away on entertaining promising clients or prospects, or other completely unnecessary image bullshit.

Also, why would someone paying 18K for a ship have to put in their CC number? Anyone that fucking insane already has their info stored for one-click purposes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on February 26, 2015, 01:04:21 PM
I wonder if AMEX makes that phone call to check and see if you've been hacked.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Nija on February 26, 2015, 01:43:37 PM
People who spend 18k on digital goods don't have a credit rating high enough to get an AMEX.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lantyssa on February 26, 2015, 01:44:21 PM
Not even a different store image for the 18.6k pack? What a ripoff.  :awesome_for_real:
What you're missing is you that don't get the planet in the middle package.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on February 26, 2015, 03:20:26 PM
The saddest part will be all of the "insiders" and journalists telling us how Roberts being an asshole had been known for years by "everyone". How they always wondered why anybody would give money to him and that people who funded him deserve what they got because people believing proven tricksters should pay for their stupidity.

You know like they did after RPS published the Molyneux interview and basically everyone came out to say that it was "nothing new" and "no big deal" because "everyone had already known for years". Well except all of the poor sods they forgot to tell about it and that spent their cash on his promises.

They'll omit the fact that nobody of them said or reported anything on the issue before the jig was up when people were still ruining their lives on Star Citizen's virtual goods.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on February 26, 2015, 03:28:18 PM
That's because they aren't journalists. They only go after people once those companies can't possible give them free shit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on February 26, 2015, 07:37:43 PM
She tried to have an intervention for him using myself and a few of his other friends and family. He went off the deep end and accused us of not understanding how important his investment was.

I'm trying very hard to imagine any such conversation that sounds remotely plausible and failing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on February 26, 2015, 08:07:53 PM
You talk-up how much collector's editions of other successful MMOs sell a year or two out and go from there. CCE of the original WoW was $300 a few years ago for an $80 'investment' and looks like it's several thousand now.

It's like the Franklin Mint collector's plates where people convince themselves that their #122,339 plate out of a limited run of 500k can only go up in value.  Some people just aren't meant to have control of money.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on February 26, 2015, 08:13:10 PM
I still have sealed WoW CEs. I should sell them.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rasix on February 26, 2015, 08:57:52 PM
Or burn them. Stream it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Surlyboi on February 26, 2015, 09:41:36 PM
I'd buy one just to burn it. But I'm an asshole.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on February 26, 2015, 10:37:17 PM
YES THOSE ARE EXCELLENT IDEAS.

You guys do know the asshole move is to take the money from someone willing to waste it that probably can't afford it, right?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on February 27, 2015, 12:27:49 AM
You talk-up how much collector's editions of other successful MMOs sell a year or two out and go from there. CCE of the original WoW was $300 a few years ago for an $80 'investment' and looks like it's several thousand now.

It's like the Franklin Mint collector's plates where people convince themselves that their #122,339 plate out of a limited run of 500k can only go up in value.  Some people just aren't meant to have control of money.

Someone paid $300m for that painting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_paintings) and while it's "unique" it still doesn't really make sense if you try to think about it.   :uhrr:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: DraconianOne on February 27, 2015, 03:35:51 AM
You talk-up how much collector's editions of other successful MMOs sell a year or two out and go from there. CCE of the original WoW was $300 a few years ago for an $80 'investment' and looks like it's several thousand now.

It's like the Franklin Mint collector's plates where people convince themselves that their #122,339 plate out of a limited run of 500k can only go up in value.  Some people just aren't meant to have control of money.

Someone paid $300m for that painting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_paintings) and while it's "unique" it still doesn't really make sense if you try to think about it.   :uhrr:

Someone likely being a Qatari sheikh on behalf of the national museums out there.  The previous biggest selling painting was by Cezanne and bought by the Al-Thani family for $250m back in 2011. So yeah, makes perfect sense. It really isn't quite the same thing as buying video game CEs or spending $18k on virtual spaceships.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mac on February 27, 2015, 05:44:49 AM
Some men just want to see the Collector's Editions burn.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on February 27, 2015, 06:16:39 AM
The "people deserve it becasue they are idiots" club ignore the fact that these things work becasue there has been over a centuary of reserch on what works on what doesn;t. Thye know how to make you crave something, and once you crave youa re hooked. YOu should swear off TVC for 2 weeks sometime as an experiment, and then you will be surprised at how the stuf that is really important to buy suddenly makes you wonder "why exactly am I buying this shit"

They knoiw how to tap into the weak points of the brain. None of us are immune. They know how to push your buttons.

Once you crave the dream, and are greedy for it, you are most of the way there on bieng fooled, sadly.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on February 27, 2015, 07:04:55 AM
You talk-up how much collector's editions of other successful MMOs sell a year or two out and go from there. CCE of the original WoW was $300 a few years ago for an $80 'investment' and looks like it's several thousand now.

It's like the Franklin Mint collector's plates where people convince themselves that their #122,339 plate out of a limited run of 500k can only go up in value.  Some people just aren't meant to have control of money.

Someone paid $300m for that painting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_paintings) and while it's "unique" it still doesn't really make sense if you try to think about it.   :uhrr:

All monetary and valuation transactions make no sense when you take a different angle on them. To wit: We exchange large portions of our lives, give up our freedom to move around and decide what we are doing in exchange for pieces of paper and non-ferrous metals. Or, more accurately, ones and zeroes in a database we're told to trust other fools will keep track of properly.

There's a marked difference between the valuation of a one of a kind painting produced by one of the world's greatest masters after his death and my point.  I was illustrating the folly of people who believe mass-produced goods to be investment products. 500k is not a 'limited run'  Nor are game editions solid investment vehicles, because WoW could have easily been a flop or continued producing vanilla CEs for years after the fact.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maven on February 27, 2015, 01:14:55 PM
I should sell my CEs, geez.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Goreschach on February 27, 2015, 02:43:23 PM
The "people deserve it becasue they are idiots" club ignore the fact that these things work becasue there has been over a centuary of reserch on what works on what doesn;t. Thye know how to make you crave something, and once you crave youa re hooked. YOu should swear off TVC for 2 weeks sometime as an experiment, and then you will be surprised at how the stuf that is really important to buy suddenly makes you wonder "why exactly am I buying this shit"

They knoiw how to tap into the weak points of the brain. None of us are immune. They know how to push your buttons.

Once you crave the dream, and are greedy for it, you are most of the way there on bieng fooled, sadly.

This is going to turn into a drunken rant about the jews, isn't it?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on February 27, 2015, 02:47:00 PM
You know it makes sense!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on February 27, 2015, 03:12:23 PM
Space jews? Aren't they the worst kind?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on February 27, 2015, 03:16:06 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAZhtT-dUyo


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on February 28, 2015, 11:27:51 PM
This entire thing is such a cynical commentary on humanity.  Jesus fucking Christ.  I hope he gets sued to hell and back by some dumb asshole's wife after said asshole spent their kids college money on fake spaceships. 

I mentioned a guy earlier in this thread, whom I have worked with extensively over the last decade. I still talk to him and his wife, since they were both friends. She has divorced him, and has full custody of his kids. Their youngest kid and mine play together frequently.

I bought him a beer the other day during our usual get together with a group of other guys. He confessed to now being well over the 20 thousand dollar mark on money spent on star citizen. He is convinced that it is going to be so amazing that he thinks he literally will not have to play any other games for the rest of his life.

I know this story is unbelievable, you don't have to trust me. However, I swear by its truth. The guy literally evangelizes the game to everybody he talks to. He reminds me of those people who get completely sucked into a religious group, his entire life revolves around star citizen right now.

I have a friend whose boyfriend is just off the fucking deep end in pretty much the exact same way about Bitcoin. To him, it's The Thing. It's Happening. It will Happen. It's his ride to being a captain of industry in the post-fiat world. he's become increasingly shut down and avoidant as the whole thing tumbled down around him. He will sit in forums full of bitcoin fanatics and they'll talk each other up into a froth of confidence about how any downturn in price is just an opportunity to buy more before it inevitably takes off again. He's getting ready to sell what few tangible goods he has left just to make rent, and has stopped buying food and just mooches off the girlfriend. She's growing increasingly despondent and unable to handle his bitcoin insanity. She's giving him an ultimatum soon.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on February 28, 2015, 11:39:44 PM
Quote
She's giving him an ultimatum soon.

Why soon, why not yesterday?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Miasma on March 01, 2015, 07:01:26 AM
Bitcoin zealots are one of the few groups that hardcore star citizen fans can look down upon.  Actually there is probably a good deal of crossover between the groups.  If only they could buy ten thousand dollar virtual space ships with their virtual currency.

The intervention would probably need an old school professional de-programmer because of the cult like effect of the mentioned echo chamber forums full of other people with bad ideas.  His ego is completely invested that he's right, other people are ignorant and that he'll show everybody once he's rich.  The realization that he's wrong just can't enter his brain because it would mentally ruin him.  You would need a pro who knows how to hanlde that or it will turn out just like the above star citizen intervention.

Or just wait until he forgets the password to his wallet or the place where he is stashing them steals everything like so many others.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on March 01, 2015, 08:11:11 AM
I posted on the official forums about twenty minutes ago.  I asked for somebody to explian to me, how all of the promises are even possible with the state of software technology as it exists today.

The thread didn't even stay up for three minutes before it disappeared.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on March 01, 2015, 09:22:26 AM
I posted on the official forums about twenty minutes ago.  I asked for somebody to explian to me, how all of the promises are even possible with the state of software technology as it exists today.

The thread didn't even stay up for three minutes before it disappeared.

Your fears don't belong in the public eye comrade.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: penfold on March 01, 2015, 09:43:57 AM
Re - the guy who spent 18k on vapourware and got divorced

A guildmate was so addicted to EQ when his wife and year old child were leaving him and moving out he didn't even leave his grinding to help them pack or say goodbye the day they left.

Only cost him £12 a month though. Not quite as stupid as the SC guy. Heh.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on March 01, 2015, 10:43:06 AM
Re - the guy who spent 18k on vapourware and got divorced

A guildmate was so addicted to EQ when his wife and year old child were leaving him and moving out he didn't even leave his grinding to help them pack or say goodbye the day they left.

Only cost him £12 a month though. Not quite as stupid as the SC guy. Heh.

Heh, that reminds me of all the stories I read when I was subscribed to the "EQ Widows" yahoo group  :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: penfold on March 01, 2015, 12:11:19 PM
It might have made it way on to there.

Everyone who played EQ had a poosock story.

Imagine if Verant had monetised it right when everyone was most addicted. "Dragon lewtz from $999"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on March 01, 2015, 12:19:43 PM
At least our Shadowbane guild leader only threw his computer through a wall before starting the chain that led to his divorce from the wife that was his co-guild leader.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: WayAbvPar on March 01, 2015, 12:38:27 PM
At least our Shadowbane guild leader only threw his computer through a wall before starting the chain that led to his divorce from the wife that was his co-guild leader.

Where did they come from anyway? Tons of F13ers in that guild but most of the leadership was people I didn't know before SB.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sophismata on March 01, 2015, 04:46:00 PM
What happened with BitCoin?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tannhauser on March 01, 2015, 06:44:37 PM
Never made it to Bytecoin.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on March 01, 2015, 06:52:15 PM
At least our Shadowbane guild leader only threw his computer through a wall before starting the chain that led to his divorce from the wife that was his co-guild leader.

Where did they come from anyway? Tons of F13ers in that guild but most of the leadership was people I didn't know before SB.

I'm not sure. I think I ran into them recruiting on an island before one of the beta phases ended, mainly because they were trying to fight the Rolling 30's.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on March 01, 2015, 07:39:59 PM
I thought they knew Cevik.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on March 03, 2015, 02:20:12 AM
Quote
She's giving him an ultimatum soon.

Why soon, why not yesterday?

Theirs was a very close, very enduring relationship, and she loves him, but not enough to be able to put herself through this. she was reluctant and he had a lot of undeserved leeway because this was hard for her to make herself do.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on March 03, 2015, 02:23:08 AM
What happened with BitCoin?

It was the worst investment of all. You would have thrown less money away if you had invested in the Greece Athex index or the fucking Ruble (http://qz.com/312598/bitcoin-is-the-worst-investment-of-2014/)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sophismata on March 03, 2015, 11:33:53 AM
What happened with BitCoin?

It was the worst investment of all. You would have thrown less money away if you had invested in the Greece Athex index or the fucking Ruble (http://qz.com/312598/bitcoin-is-the-worst-investment-of-2014/)
Ouch. Thanks for the link.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on March 03, 2015, 11:58:22 AM
I'm way overdue to fire up a KS for some vague bullshit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on March 04, 2015, 05:58:57 AM
Maybe a Kickstarter to help fund your thought process for coming up with an idea for a Kickstarter? 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on March 04, 2015, 08:39:51 AM
I like the way you think.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on March 07, 2015, 03:30:35 PM
Today in the wonderful land of Star Citizen  :why_so_serious: :

- PAX East Presentation (starts at Midnight CET, 6pm EST) : FPS module will be unveiled, along with its planned release date. We already got a glimpse when they presented the external studio (Illfonic) that is working on it. Event won't be streamed live, but they'll post videos during the evening.

In other news:
- Monthly Report (February 2015):
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14563-Monthly-Report-February
-----

Regarding the FPS module, if they stick to their plan, they should launch it with two maps: one is a zero-g arena, the other is the "abandoned outpost" that was part of the above mentioned Illfonic presentation. Later this evening they should also publish a new Design article about the new ship damage system they're implementing.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hutch on March 07, 2015, 03:44:28 PM
FPS module? So, Star Citizen is basically a Counterstrike mod?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on March 07, 2015, 06:24:30 PM
So, presentation just ended, moar ship porn was exposed.

New Damage System post:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14568-Design-The-New-Damage-System
Direct link to Damage System porn video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkAaLd0FdK0&ab

Reintroducing the Aegis Retaliator (it's almost "hangar-ready". Video also features interior footage):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxEWc6IvtQc&ab

Looks alright, I guess  :ye_gods:
----

Presentation ended with the predicted FPS portion; it should come out in 2-3 weeks, according to Chris. They are still working hard on parties & bitches character animations and other stuff; the "space station" looks quite big: it will feature 8vs8 fights; then, there is the zero-g arena, which is going to be 16v16. Dunno if they're going to post a video about those two tonight (I watched the whole thing throughout an attendee's twitch), or if it will just feature in the whole video presentation that should go online on Monday.

Finally, an updated schedule for the whole project:

- Within a couple months, both the FPS and the Social Module (planetside location, multiplayer hangars, chat, 1st person trade interface, also called MobiGlass) will be online
- Summer (probably June or early July): Arena Commander 2.0 (multi-crew ships)

- End of 2015: first episode of Squadron 42; Pre-Alpha Persistent Universe

Here's an interview with Polygon that goes a bit more in-depth about the project schedule, especially the proper, persistent universe part:
http://www.polygon.com/features/2015/3/2/8131661/star-citizen-chris-roberts-interview

Quote
"Squadron 42 will be toward the end of the year. That's sort of basically Wing Commander single-player narrative story. And then at the very end of the year we will release the very early alpha of the persistent universe. It wont be nearly all of the systems and planets, but we plan to have five or six systems you can fly between. You won't be able to do all of the things we're planning on you to do, but probably trading, mining, piracy, combat and a lot of core stuff."

Then the company plans to spend 2016 filling out the rest of the star system, finishing ships, finishing characters "basically going from five to 130 star systems and adding more of the functionally and features on that we have and building out different roles."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on March 10, 2015, 07:55:11 AM
PAX East presentation is online (lasts 43m):
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14576-PAX-East-Presentation

In case you don't want to watch the whole church reunion (the first 13 minutes are devoted to the Damage Model and the Retaliator update, already linked in my previous message) :

- roughly from 14:15 to 16:15 Roberts explains the slight delay about the release of the FPS module (supposedly 2-3 weeks, as I mentioned before);
- Then, from 16:15 to 21:13, he goes on showing the changes to animation since PAX Australia (when the module was first unveiled), and again why it's being delayed;

- From 21:14 'til the end, the FPS module is explained in more detailed, firstly, from an "in-fiction" point of view: just like Arena Commander is the simulation module for the dogfight, developed by Original Systems Inc. ,  "Star Marine" is the one for the FPS, developed by InterDimension Software  :grin: . Then the presentation goes on showcasing available armors and weapons, and the two game modes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on March 10, 2015, 08:02:47 AM
I actually appreciate these updates. With all of the cargo cult madness by backers it's nice to just get a filtered digest of "what is cloud imperium actually fucking doing" that mostly bypasses it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on March 10, 2015, 08:25:02 AM
EQ story. In the early days of EQ, I was farming the crap out of some low hanging fruits on timers. Locked up a few items on my server, had to buy them from me on ebay. Made some decent money, too.

I showed my buddy who was increasingly addicted to EQ, ended up losing his job but for some reason his dopey wife stayed with him for years. He was pretty much 24/7 living in the game, I figured I'd help him pay rent by showing him how to profit from farming easily.

He not only didn't sell on ebay, he was buying on ebay. His wife told me someone screwed him over for $400 for a manastone. He sent the money and they didn't show. I was his boss at a previous job and he wasn't making $400/week when he was working. Felt pretty bad, but damn. Gotta make your own choices in life.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Azazel on March 11, 2015, 01:25:40 AM
I would feel hesitant paying 18 dollars for any kind of in-game ship, and that is even assuming we have a playable and fun game to begin with.  Were the price tag 180, I would think anyone spending that kind of money on virtual ships was a complete and utter rube.  If the price was 1800, I would be sure that someone was pulling my leg, because there is no way anything in a video game could cost even close to that much.  But 18600?  What the ever living fuck.  I cannot even wrap my mind around that.  You could hire 10 hookers for that money, and still have change leftover for a sack full of blow.  You can buy an actual real car for that.  You could feed a few hundred starving African kids for a long time.  

Who actually clicks on that button and fills in the CC info to complete the payment?  Psychos.

Just in reference to the $18 thing, I spent approximately the same amount of money that a boxed game would cost me on pretend tanks for WoT - and people spend more on Skylanders toys for their kids (though they do get toys as well)> once you get to the higher numbers, I'm plenty in agreement with you.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on March 11, 2015, 02:14:05 AM
I would feel hesitant paying 18 dollars for any kind of in-game ship, and that is even assuming we have a playable and fun game to begin with.  Were the price tag 180, I would think anyone spending that kind of money on virtual ships was a complete and utter rube.  If the price was 1800, I would be sure that someone was pulling my leg, because there is no way anything in a video game could cost even close to that much.  But 18600?  What the ever living fuck.  I cannot even wrap my mind around that.  You could hire 10 hookers for that money, and still have change leftover for a sack full of blow.  You can buy an actual real car for that.  You could feed a few hundred starving African kids for a long time.  

Who actually clicks on that button and fills in the CC info to complete the payment?  Psychos.

Just in reference to the $18 thing, I spent approximately the same amount of money that a boxed game would cost me on pretend tanks for WoT - and people spend more on Skylanders toys for their kids (though they do get toys as well)> once you get to the higher numbers, I'm plenty in agreement with you.

Well, I said hesitant.  Not necessarily fully opposed.  For a free-to-play game like WoT, sure.  They need a revenue stream of some kind, so that seems fair, so long as the prices are within the realm of reason.  I still try to avoid costs in such games and get as much free play out of it as possible, but I get it.  Things start to crack for me with things like Skylanders.  You already pay 50 bucks or so for your starter kit.  The game itself is so ridiculously simple and so heinously gated that you probably get three hours of game play in it before the kids are insisting they need new figures to open up new areas.  15 bucks (or whatever) for another shitty figure opens up the next gate and another hour of play if you are lucky.  And so on.  You will end up paying a couple hundred bucks to get a game experience that many others offer for just the box cost.  It is the most cynical cash grab imaginable.  The idea itself is cool.  It is the prices that are fucking monstrous.

CS:GO - fuck me, don't even get me started on that one.  15 bucks for a game that is basically just a re-hash of an old game.  Then you gotta start buying crates.  And when your 10 dollar crate nets you nothing worth a shit, surely a 20 dollar crate will be better!  And so on.  My dumb ass children would happily dump all of their money into this shit if I wasn't holding the credit card info.

End derail, I guess.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on March 11, 2015, 03:27:40 AM

CS:GO - fuck me, don't even get me started on that one.  15 bucks for a game that is basically just a re-hash of an old game.  Then you gotta start buying crates.  And when your 10 dollar crate nets you nothing worth a shit, surely a 20 dollar crate will be better!  And so on.  My dumb ass children would happily dump all of their money into this shit if I wasn't holding the credit card info.

End derail, I guess.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/829607/daily/79/gab.png)

No. The crates are just skins.
All praise Gaben, High Priest of the Master Race.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on March 11, 2015, 05:01:07 AM

CS:GO - fuck me, don't even get me started on that one.  15 bucks for a game that is basically just a re-hash of an old game.  Then you gotta start buying crates.  And when your 10 dollar crate nets you nothing worth a shit, surely a 20 dollar crate will be better!  And so on.  My dumb ass children would happily dump all of their money into this shit if I wasn't holding the credit card info.

End derail, I guess.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/829607/daily/79/gab.png)

No. The crates are just skins.
All praise Gaben, High Priest of the Master Race.

Eh? I've paid a grand total of $3.50 on CS:GO.

Its also an incredibly good game. A real one.

Just because people can spend heaps of money on it doesn't mean they at all need to. All the money you could spend is entirely cosmetic.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on March 11, 2015, 06:21:06 AM


CS:GO - fuck me, don't even get me started on that one.  15 bucks for a game that is basically just a re-hash of an old game.  Then you gotta start buying crates.  And when your 10 dollar crate nets you nothing worth a shit, surely a 20 dollar crate will be better!  And so on.  My dumb ass children would happily dump all of their money into this shit if I wasn't holding the credit card info.

End derail, I guess.

CS: GO is an exceptionally good shooter.  Yeah, it's a rehash.  But Counter Strike has always been, and still is, very good.  You don't "gotta" buy crates.  You get the entire game out of the box.  Crates get you skins for guns.  That's it.  Hell, even if you just consider it a graphical update to Counter Strike 1.6, it's easily worth what you can pay for it on sale.  And it's far better than CS: Source.

Edit: Oh wait, this isn't the so what are you playing thread.  Oh well, star citizen is boring to talk about by now anyway.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on March 11, 2015, 06:25:05 AM
I am guessing you children of a CS playing age.  I don't have complaints about the game itself, wouldn't mind playing it myself.  It's the cynical cash grab.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on March 11, 2015, 06:28:08 AM
I am guessing you children of a CS playing age.  I don't have complaints about the game itself, wouldn't mind playing it myself.  It's the cynical cash grab.

You think TF2 hats are a cynical cash grab? Likewise dota compendiums?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on March 11, 2015, 07:09:19 AM
I am guessing you children of a CS playing age.  I don't have complaints about the game itself, wouldn't mind playing it myself.  It's the cynical cash grab.

I guess I'm just having trouble seeing a game that costs 15 dollars and gives you EVERYTHING to play the game a "cynical cash grab."  I don't care at all about cosmetics in games for the most part though, so maybe it's just easy for me to ignore them.  I don't have children of CS playing age, but children not being able to control spending isn't valve's fault.  Like you said, you should be controlling the credit card info anyway.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on March 11, 2015, 07:16:10 AM
I agree that the game out of the box is complete enough and well worth the money.  But it is still a cynical cash grab.  The crates they sell are stupidly expensive and designed specifically to make you want to buy more more more.  And it sure as hell works on kids (whether it is CS, or FIFA, or Skylanders, or whatever).  At least CS:GO has the decency to be a cheap game to begin with.


And yeah, I do control the card, so there is that.  But man, I am sure tired of arguing this with the damn bloodsuckers.  Anyway, this is mostly me yelling at clouds.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mac on March 11, 2015, 08:24:47 AM
I haven't played CS:GO since release but did they patch some awesome in since then? I found it totaly bland and I've played all the previous iterations.

And why is the MURDER SIMULATOR of yore considered a childrens game now? Wtf did I miss?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on March 11, 2015, 09:12:37 AM
Heh, it's partly just the world moving on and kids these days being way more tech savvy.  But in this specific case, it is a cultural difference as well, and maybe that is the more important part of it.  Kids in Denmark are playing these games as early as...7 or 8 years old.  And it is basically all of them, so good luck trying to limit your own kid's habits.  And I'd advise against any sweeping statements about how messed up that is.  This is a country where no toddler ever shot his mommy and no police officer ever opened fire on a black teenager.  In other words, a much healthier relationship to firearms than in the US.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on March 11, 2015, 02:19:02 PM
And yeah, I do control the card, so there is that.  But man, I am sure tired of arguing this with the damn bloodsuckers.  Anyway, this is mostly me yelling at clouds.


People without kids won't get it. Don't worry, some of us do.

Let me tell you about the 3 versions of Spyro statuette I've been begged to buy...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on March 11, 2015, 02:21:31 PM
I get it.  I just don't see how it is a criticism of Counter-Strike.  Practically every toy out there is a cynical cash grab by the standard here, which kind of makes the the term pack a little less punch.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on March 11, 2015, 03:07:06 PM
And yeah, I do control the card, so there is that.  But man, I am sure tired of arguing this with the damn bloodsuckers.  Anyway, this is mostly me yelling at clouds.


People without kids won't get it. Don't worry, some of us do.

Let me tell you about the 3 versions of Spyro statuette I've been begged to buy...

I get it, but your kids would find something they want, be it Lego, or cs skins or whatever. Not really because cs is targeting them specifically.

Also crate drops are free to all players and crate keys cost like $2. All the expensive stuff isn't sold by valve but sold by other players through the marketplace and driven by player demand.

I'd be far more wary of player scammers and the betting sites than valves business model if I had kids when it comes to cs.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mac on March 11, 2015, 03:07:49 PM
Heh, it's partly just the world moving on and kids these days being way more tech savvy.  But in this specific case, it is a cultural difference as well, and maybe that is the more important part of it.  Kids in Denmark are playing these games as early as...7 or 8 years old.  And it is basically all of them, so good luck trying to limit your own kid's habits.  And I'd advise against any sweeping statements about how messed up that is.  This is a country where no toddler ever shot his mommy and no police officer ever opened fire on a black teenager.  In other words, a much healthier relationship to firearms than in the US.
I never agreed with the stupid qualification of Murder Simulator. I just found if funny that this franchise was still a thing and being played by little children no less, despite it's reputation. I guess the world did just move on like you said.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sophismata on March 11, 2015, 06:32:50 PM
Some of us never had sensationalised media articles about the whole thing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on March 12, 2015, 12:25:06 AM
I get it.  I just don't see how it is a criticism of Counter-Strike.  Practically every toy out there is a cynical cash grab by the standard here, which kind of makes the the term pack a little less punch.

Well, to bring it back closer to the original topic, it is of course in no way as cynical as what Star Citizen is doing.  But the thing is, the kids know that there are actually valuable things hidden in some of these crates.  So when the first 10 dollar investment in a crate yields absolutely nothing, they want to immediately dump 20 dollars into it, because surely eventually it has to pay off, right?  In no time flat, you have paid 50 bucks for a game that is a re-hash at the end of the day, and kids clamoring for more more more depsite having gotten nothing at all of actual use beyond what came out of the box.

I could also go on and on private minecraft servers that ask for "donations" in return for credits, status, islands, or whatever.  Or private websites that sell FIFA coins and/or packs.  A parent's nightmare.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on March 12, 2015, 12:33:34 AM
Kids are stupid..
Fix the kids.  :pedobear:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on March 12, 2015, 03:58:59 AM
I get it.  I just don't see how it is a criticism of Counter-Strike.  Practically every toy out there is a cynical cash grab by the standard here, which kind of makes the the term pack a little less punch.

Well, to bring it back closer to the original topic, it is of course in no way as cynical as what Star Citizen is doing.  But the thing is, the kids know that there are actually valuable things hidden in some of these crates.  So when the first 10 dollar investment in a crate yields absolutely nothing, they want to immediately dump 20 dollars into it, because surely eventually it has to pay off, right?  In no time flat, you have paid 50 bucks for a game that is a re-hash at the end of the day, and kids clamoring for more more more depsite having gotten nothing at all of actual use beyond what came out of the box.

I could also go on and on private minecraft servers that ask for "donations" in return for credits, status, islands, or whatever.  Or private websites that sell FIFA coins and/or packs.  A parent's nightmare.

Yeah, or you could have a kid that likes lego. My nephew likes the catalogue more than the lego itself... (not exactly true). Not really sure how it's values fault.

Not really sure what "re-hash" is meant to mean either? It's the best shooter around, the best every IMO, and the fact it's part of a series is meaningless.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on March 12, 2015, 04:19:46 AM
Counterstrike is like a sport. Or like an old discipline like chess. It doesn't get old. Every match is a completely new challenge and story. You don't need to change anything about it. Sure, given its nature cleaning up and improving graphics and sounds help, but the core of it could last another 100 years, the same way football, baseball, basketball do. Nothing wrong with it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on March 12, 2015, 04:20:39 AM
Come on, it's a re-hash.  They have recycled the maps to a large degree and turned it into team deathmatch.  Sure, there are some new maps, features, loot goodies, etc., but what it boils down to is that every time I happen to see either of the boys playing it, they are running around the same Dust or Office map that I remember from ye olde days, charging around like fools because death means nothing in deathmatch mode, even if there may be a bomb to disarm or a hostage to rescue.  I'm sure that all the elements that made CS a great shooter in the day are still there, but that doesn't change the fact that they have simply added new modes, polished the graphics (though not much!) and added a button to get you straight to the cash shop.  I can't imagine an easier way for them to give their old cash cow new life than by doing exactly what they did, and that makes it a cynical re-hash in my book.  And whenever HL3 comes out, you can bet your bippy that CounterStrike: Origin or some shit will be right behind it, complete with same maps and even more graphical polish and an even bigger button to get you to the cash shop so that you can get a purple butterfly knife skin.

Note that this doesn't necessarily mean you aren't correct about it being the best shooter around.  I believe that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on March 12, 2015, 04:32:26 AM
Come on, it's a re-hash.  They have recycled the maps to a large degree and turned it into team deathmatch.  Sure, there are some new maps, features, loot goodies, etc., but what it boils down to is that every time I happen to see either of the boys playing it, they are running around the same Dust or Office map that I remember from ye olde days, charging around like fools because death means nothing in deathmatch mode, even if there may be a bomb to disarm or a hostage to rescue.  I'm sure that all the elements that made CS a great shooter in the day are still there, but that doesn't change the fact that they have simply added new modes, polished the graphics (though not much!) and added a button to get you straight to the cash shop.  I can't imagine an easier way for them to give their old cash cow new life than by doing exactly what they did, and that makes it a cynical re-hash in my book.  And whenever HL3 comes out, you can bet your bippy that CounterStrike: Origin or some shit will be right behind it, complete with same maps and even more graphical polish and an even bigger button to get you to the cash shop so that you can get a purple butterfly knife skin.

Note that this doesn't necessarily mean you aren't correct about it being the best shooter around.  I believe that.

Maybe you should play something a little before you start writing a thesis about it? Bit awkward...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: pants on March 12, 2015, 05:54:19 AM
And whenever HL3 comes out,

/tangent

That will be the third of never.  HL3 is never coming out.  Valve is making too much money from Steam, and because of their no-managers policy, it means noone is saying 'Write HL3 dammit' - and Gabe doesn't care because he's got a whole fucking house built of money from Steam.  So HL3 will never be released.  You heard it hear first folks.

And back to something on topic.  Polygon is saying link (http://www.polygon.com/2015/3/12/8198615/star-citizens-client-will-be-a-100gb-download) that Star Citizen is going to be a 100GB download.  Because that's normal  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on March 12, 2015, 11:01:47 AM
That will be the third of never.  HL3 is never coming out.  Valve is making too much money from Steam, and because of their no-managers policy, it means noone is saying 'Write HL3 dammit' - and Gabe doesn't care because he's got a whole fucking house built of money from Steam.  So HL3 will never be released.  You heard it hear first folks.

Except all those times other people said the exact same things in a slightly different way.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on March 14, 2015, 01:55:29 AM
(http://cdn.tentonhammer.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/BigInstall_0.jpg)
 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on March 14, 2015, 06:12:50 AM
Stretch goal could be to reduce the size of the files. But all things considered, the way this church works this will just be additional publicity. And the zealots will just use it as a way to prove that their god is bigger and better than all the other ones.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ezrast on March 14, 2015, 06:40:48 AM
I wonder how many people with capped bandwidth are suddenly coming to terms with their inability to ever download their "investments".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on March 14, 2015, 08:51:17 AM
Surprised I haven't seen this posted.

30 minutes into the PAX presentation they show off the zero-g arena FPS gameplay (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8BL8gXjc54&t=1849)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on March 14, 2015, 08:54:41 AM
Just what I always wanted in my open world space simulator, an arena fps mode.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on March 14, 2015, 09:05:52 AM
KallDrexx that has been posted here and there (on f13) before. It just doesn't get any attention because, even in the dream world where this game will get made, that FPS arena part is the least interesting of all, and that video is a huge pile of meh.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on March 14, 2015, 10:03:40 AM
I wonder how many people with capped bandwidth are suddenly coming to terms with their inability to ever download their "investments".
For an extra $1000, we'll mail you the game on a bunch of BluRays! For $200,000, we'll also do it for every patch ever, for the life of the game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on March 14, 2015, 10:15:37 AM
KallDrexx that has been posted here and there (on f13) before. It just doesn't get any attention because, even in the dream world where this game will get made, that FPS arena part is the least interesting of all, and that video is a huge pile of meh.

It was on PAX East, and the video was only uploaded 5 days ago.  

*Edit:* Also, it may be the least important part but they are spending resources on it, which then becomes why are they spending resources on it, which doesn't bode well for other aspects.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on March 14, 2015, 12:44:09 PM
Well this "Module" style devleopment they are going for means they are going to have all these little stand alone bits of game.  I still don't quite understand how it is all going to get jammed together.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on March 14, 2015, 01:51:44 PM
I wonder how many people with capped bandwidth are suddenly coming to terms with their inability to ever download their "investments".
For an extra $1000, we'll mail you the game on a bunch of BluRays! For $200,000, we'll also do it for every patch ever, for the life of the game.
For just 100k Chris Roberts will deliver you the initial launch build on the disc... personally.

(what's the odds they'd get at least a dozen buyers)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on March 15, 2015, 08:37:25 AM
They can take your 100k and spend 3k to buy you plane tickets to whatever "release day" convention center, whereby you can stand in line and Chris Roberts can indeed give you your disc personally. 

I would totally set up that deal, were I Chris Roberts.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mandella on March 15, 2015, 02:02:42 PM
That sort of huge size is nothing new to those of us who enjoy flight and space sims. The next version of Orbiter looks like it's going to clock in at well over a hundred gigs, if you get the high def Earth and Lunar surfaces. And those of us on reduced bandwidth (which is certainly me) have learned ways to circumvent those restrictions to download even 30 gig games.

That said, it remains to be seen if Star Citizen is going to be worth going to the trouble for...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on March 15, 2015, 06:59:21 PM
Well this "Module" style devleopment they are going for means they are going to have all these little stand alone bits of game.  I still don't quite understand how it is all going to get jammed together.

Let me attempt to give you a more detailed point of view that goes beyond the "OMG best thing evar/OMG scam" loop.
----------

As far as we know, the entire project is being worked on by almost 300 critters. Quite a lot seems changed since about 1/1.5 year ago: there is now a Director for the Persistent Universe, a director for the single-player campaign, a couple studio coordinators, executive producer, producers etc. Now, competent or not, inflated or not, it's surely better compared to when Roberts had to track everything down almost by himself. I assume there is some common technical paper among the various studios so they know what the common goal is no matter the daily hurdles they're going to face, but maybe I'm assuming too much  :grin:

Looks like it has also reduced the risk of "backtracking" too much on stuff they showed a couple years ago; now, some is inevitable: after all, there might be things in common design-wise, but this is not exactly your next run-of-the-mill DIKU. They're currently reworking the visual of some of the early ships, but that's understandable. Tweaks on the flying system/ship weapon balance/ship HUD and UI will be an ongoing work 'til it's locked for the single-player campaign (although some things might be different between the SP campaign and the persistent universe, when it comes to the ship HUD/UI)

Plus:

- Next Arena Commander patch will introduce multiplayer hangars;
- Next patch will also include a manual/automatic landing system on platforms that will be included in the "free flight" maps. ;


In theory, if they didn't treat the current space portion as a different beast, they already have a working "mini-loop" there (but I'm sure there is a seamless one already working internally):

- Flying in space - check
- Automatic approach/landing sequence on a planet - check (shown back in October: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-xvCg8CI9U&ab_channel=StarCitizen)
- Walking around a planetside location - check (see the previous video)
- Buy/sell stuff, use the trade UI - check (mobiGlass, shown in a previous Design post; will be included in the forthcoming "social module")
- Hangar/home for ships - check

Only thing they haven't shown is taking off from a planet (the exit sequence, in other words).

The FPS arenas are, of course, just a "test bed" for other mechanics:

- boarding a ship
- Planetside locations that will feature PvP, but also those included in the single-player campaign against the AI.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on March 15, 2015, 07:47:07 PM
I too appreciate your updates, Lucas.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on March 15, 2015, 08:13:19 PM
New "montage" from SXSW; from 2:25 and onward (before it's just recycled material) is all new stuff pertaining to the ArcCorp planetside location, now populated and with more shops/interiors (bar looks pretty nice):

https://youtu.be/sbZLbb0_RBI

Yep, little peek at the planetary "exit" sequence too (or, at least, the beginning of it :P)  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sophismata on March 15, 2015, 08:49:17 PM
To be honest, the damage model was really cool, but the FPS seemed a tad janky for me.

I remain deeply suspicious, but this is honestly win/win. Either the game releases and is awesome, releases and is mediocre/terrible, or never releases at all - I am thoroughly entertained regardless.

My money is on the mediocre release.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on March 15, 2015, 09:10:22 PM
More likely it continues to release slowly over several years. People already heavily invested in it will keep throwing money at it to keep development going. There isn't going to be one singular point in time where the game is either canceled or released. I think anybody expecting some sort of apocalyptic train wreck moment are going to be disappointed.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on March 17, 2015, 10:08:09 AM
Well this "Module" style devleopment they are going for means they are going to have all these little stand alone bits of game.  I still don't quite understand how it is all going to get jammed together.

They are not really stand alone, they use shared assets/code. Player/ship models/textures/animations and code are all shared.

More info on the damage model rework: Link to Powerpoint (http://amd-dev.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wordpress/media/2012/10/Visual-Effects-in-Star-Citizen.ppsx)

Stretch goal could be to reduce the size of the files. But all things considered, the way this church works this will just be additional publicity. And the zealots will just use it as a way to prove that their god is bigger and better than all the other ones.

File size should not surprise anyone at this point. Many newer games clock in at the 60gb mark recently. With the fidelity going into this title, 100gb is likely conservative, and that's with compression and smart reuse. Many early backers are entitled to a USB drive with the game on it ( as per the pledge rewards ). The ships themselves have what would normally be entire levels of focus applied to them, as some are levels worth of complexity.

Lucus is correct, the enders game portion is the perfect test bed for zero-g maneuvering, that will be used in the larger world for things like EVA outside your ship. So the approach of making it a mini-game is completely appropriate. In AC right now, you can leave your ship and see an early version, likely to be updated when the FPS portion is released. Its all rolls back into itself.

I think part of the issue is comprehension. Not many are used to seeing something like a game made, and all the iterations and components being worked and reworked. With each bit of information ( and there is nearly a constant stream ) many treat it as if its the typical "4 months to release" info dump. The damage model is a great example of iteration, and wholly confused commenters. When the first iteration is treated as "the finial" one and the second, and quite possibly not even last method is vastly different. Most people I suspect are not accustomed to seeing the guts of development, even SC for all its transparency, its still sanitized and compiled. Many are simply used to normal patterns of information in the few months leading up-to launch, so every bit of info that the media cares to share ( witch seems to mostly be focused on the money, Not really CIGS' fault, the details and info about subsystems are available ) becomes the next "Final" version in many viewers minds.

Not sure if it was ever posted, but remember the Mocap studio they set up? Inside CIG: Imaginarium  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUUlU6RvrQE)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on March 21, 2015, 12:20:14 AM
Quote
With each bit of information ( and there is nearly a constant stream ) many treat it as if its the typical "4 months to release" info dump.

eh maayyybe

i feel a bit better about this sordid project overall merely knowing that the actual employees and even probably the devs working on this game find the fans to be totally bugfuck


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on March 23, 2015, 04:39:14 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr6AekjywFI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr6AekjywFI)

The mighty Jingles downloads Star Citizen - taking 7 and a half hours to do so and what he has at the ehld is the same game he had 6 months ago... with 2 new ships, one of which he cant fly as its not a dogfighter.

Also the landing system is in the game!!! Except theres nothing to land on. Werll theres a couple of places on a few of the deathmatch maps where you can land. And then you can take off again. And that's it.

He's a bit cheesed off. But he does spend most of the video wandering around his new ship and goes oooh and ahh a lot. And with good reason as its fucking gorgeous. No denying it, it's a stunning piece of design. (Yours to sit in your hanger and do nothing for only $300)

But yeah the beginning and end of the video is vintage Jingles ranting. Enjoy


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on March 23, 2015, 11:47:35 AM
who the fuck is jingles


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on March 23, 2015, 11:48:08 AM
who the fuck is jingles

Thank goodness I'm not the only one.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Shrike on March 23, 2015, 11:52:18 AM
He's mostly noted from the WoW, WoT, and WT communities. He does a lot of streaming on Twitch and has a rather extensive YouTube site.

Old school curmudgeon.

I saw the vid. It is pretty much vintage Jingles.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on March 23, 2015, 12:15:05 PM
So the answer is "fucking nobody."

Rad.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Count Nerfedalot on March 24, 2015, 09:57:49 AM
sometimes funny whiner who seems to be making decent cash off of YouTube ranting about WoT.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on April 12, 2015, 01:23:37 PM
Some updates:

- March monthly report (as always, a nice and in-depth read about the progress made by each CIG branch):
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14640-Monthly-Report-March


- Here's a more detailed post about the current manual/automatic landing system (scroll down a bit):
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14572-Star-Citizen-11-Is-Live

- Another endless money pit CIG Studio has been unveiled: CIG Frankfurt!
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14648-Inside-CIG-Foundry-42-Germany

Roberts basically raked in all the ex Crytek guys and put them in an office. They'll help with engineering and R&D about other stuff (probably the procedural stuff Roberts want to integrate later in the game); they're also helping the Manchester branch with Squadron 42.

Hereby I present: Breathing Marine Simulator Commander 2015!
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14653-Design-FPS-Stances-Breathing

Nothing really new about the stances compared to other games in the FPS genre: it just confirms they're attempting to deliver a more detailed experience instead of implementing it as an afterthought. The breathing system sounds ridiculous, but I'll be able to tell you more once "Star Marine" gets released (no official news, but I think it's being delayed because they're experiencing a lot of problems in the multiplayer environment of Arena Commander. Consider that the FPS module will be exclusively PvP, at least with the initial release).
-----

I finally assembled my new rig, so I'm now actually able to play it at 60fps instead of 5-10 :P; hopefully I'll get around writing more detailed impressions relatively soon.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on April 12, 2015, 01:46:41 PM
Breathing system should pretty much be right next to the dictionary entry for feature creep.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on April 12, 2015, 02:44:33 PM
Quote
We intend to prove that breathing can be an active, interesting part of the FPS experience.

There isn't a big enough  :why_so_serious: available, so I won't try.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Thrawn on April 12, 2015, 03:28:52 PM
Late April Fools joke?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on April 12, 2015, 03:29:15 PM
Breathing... system?


Wut?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on April 12, 2015, 04:08:01 PM
It'll leave the fans gasping for air.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on April 12, 2015, 04:29:37 PM
"hold button for your sniper character to 'hold down his breath' and stop wildly swinging the gun around" has been around the block for a while now in shooters. Seems like they're just iterating on it, by attaching some fetapults and whatnot.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on April 12, 2015, 04:50:40 PM
What's a fetapult, except a cheese flinging war machine?



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Surlyboi on April 12, 2015, 09:10:42 PM
Fetus catapult.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Abagadro on April 12, 2015, 11:35:46 PM
You need to press B every 10 seconds or you die.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Senses on April 13, 2015, 01:09:17 AM
This game is basically scientology I think.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on April 13, 2015, 01:43:29 AM
What's a fetapult, except a cheese flinging war machine?
It's a classic (http://westkarana.com/index.php/2009/09/15/daily-blogroll-looks-back-2001-followup/). :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Abagadro on April 13, 2015, 02:02:57 AM
Damn you, a company is at steak!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on April 13, 2015, 06:17:47 AM
You need to press B every 10 seconds or you die.

The game these people deserve.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on April 13, 2015, 07:06:14 AM
They can probably take it further if they really want to. Like, why do you get to breathe precious oxygen for free? In deep space that's a commodity you should be paying for, no less than 50c per tank.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on April 13, 2015, 08:13:49 AM
At this point, for the sake of simulative realism I am seriously expecting the next module to be about pee and poop. And maybe farts. What if your soldier farts during a stealth operation? Need to code a system for that, and assign a key to hold it in.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: WayAbvPar on April 13, 2015, 09:17:38 AM
They are desperately trying to make it look like they are doing something with all of the money they have stolen extorted raised without cutting into the "Buy Chris a private island somewhere with favorable tax laws and no extradition treaties" fund.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rasix on April 13, 2015, 11:39:03 AM
You need to press B every 10 seconds or you die.

Complete the following QTE to jump the space shark. 

You cannot fail this QTE, for the shark has already been jumped.  New stretch goal: add multiple space sharks. Lasers on space sharks is an additional tier. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Azazel on April 14, 2015, 01:44:57 AM
You need to press B every 10 seconds or you die.

The game these people deserve.

Didn't Borderlands already do that?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on April 14, 2015, 02:46:16 AM
Well, most games have you regularly mash a button or you die, in fact  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tebonas on April 14, 2015, 06:05:01 AM
This are the best 30 dollars I ever spent. Regardless if there will be a game in the end or not, the forum drama and the pure heights of ridiculousness the developers reach are worh every cent.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on April 25, 2015, 03:16:26 PM
You thought you've seen it all with "Breathing Commander"?

No.

Not even close.

They once again outdid themselves with their new Design post, "Cargo Simulator & Coin Flipping Manager 20xx":

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/14677-Design-Cargo-Interaction
---

Like everything else, it potentially adds interesting layers to what are they now calling "first person universe" (cargo mass and volume influencing ship performance, know exactly what you're jettisoning, nice UI for cargo status, etc.), but right now, it just sounds batshit crazy  :grin: :why_so_serious:


Finally, yes, new ship line unveiled, the MISC Hull series, now in concept sale:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14661-A-Hull-For-Every-Job-The-MISC-Hull-Series


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on April 25, 2015, 03:17:57 PM
You need to press B every 10 seconds or you die.

The game these people deserve.

Didn't Borderlands already do that?
When did Borderlands make you push a button every 10 seconds? :uhrr:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on April 25, 2015, 04:01:36 PM
Finally, yes, new ship line unveiled, the MISC Hull series, now in concept sale:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14661-A-Hull-For-Every-Job-The-MISC-Hull-Series

Only $1250 for the top tier pack.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on April 25, 2015, 04:39:50 PM
Only $1250 for the top tier pack.
For now. It's a limited time offer, act while the virtual virtual supplies last!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on April 25, 2015, 05:16:59 PM
is it virtually limited concept art?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Setanta on April 25, 2015, 05:24:09 PM
I really want to see how many people buy up the $1200 pack. I'll admit to buying in a long time ago to the sum of $160ish... but the numbers that people throw out there is mind-blowing in terms of cash spent.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on April 25, 2015, 10:28:07 PM
How much money do they have to make for a statement like "I hope Chris Roberts gets a disease where his dick falls off" to not sound inhumane and heartless?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ezrast on April 26, 2015, 12:14:02 AM
I think we're well past that point?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on April 26, 2015, 12:43:05 AM
Long, long ago.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on April 26, 2015, 03:53:25 AM
Well, for now the reached the $80 Million mark  :grin:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on April 26, 2015, 04:13:50 AM
I just watched Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4257858/?) and had the crazy thought that maybe Chris Roberts will turn out to be this generation's Ron Hubbard (all they really need is a religion status to make all that money tax-free).  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: angry.bob on April 26, 2015, 12:25:14 PM
Somewhere on a tiny island in a subterranean lake a bitter, hateful Dr. Smerek Dart plots his vengeance and wonders why he wasn't able to pull this off. Also, he's probably mad at sunlight as well and is eating raw fish.

I wasn't going to touch this game, but when they add the Bureau of Titles and Registration system I'll have to bite. The chance, no, the requirement that I navigate a virtual title agency to get a starship license, then a small business licence, apply for tax exempt status, register my spaceship, register my company as an employer of less than 50 people that withholds payroll taxes, apply for hazardous material transportation licencing, find a good commercial bank and set up accounts with direct deposit, decide on employee benefit packages, etc, etc, etc. I wonder if they've even taken half of that stuff into account. I should go post those demands on their forum.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Torinak on April 26, 2015, 02:38:06 PM
Somewhere on a tiny island in a subterranean lake a bitter, hateful Dr. Smerek Dart plots his vengeance and wonders why he wasn't able to pull this off. Also, he's probably mad at sunlight as well and is eating raw fish.

I wasn't going to touch this game, but when they add the Bureau of Titles and Registration system I'll have to bite. The chance, no, the requirement that I navigate a virtual title agency to get a starship license, then a small business licence, apply for tax exempt status, register my spaceship, register my company as an employer of less than 50 people that withholds payroll taxes, apply for hazardous material transportation licencing, find a good commercial bank and set up accounts with direct deposit, decide on employee benefit packages, etc, etc, etc. I wonder if they've even taken half of that stuff into account. I should go post those demands on their forum.

And once that's all in place, it opens up the exciting new career path of Auditor! Review virtual paperwork for hours on end! Track down that missing form FU-10032-QQ/A that might slow down your opponent's business license! Passively-aggressively overlook their valid supporting materials, forcing them into the dreaded Appeals Process! It's hardcore player-vs-player action the likes of which hasn't been seen since the PK/Anti days of UO!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ezrast on April 26, 2015, 04:37:38 PM
Glory to Starstotzka!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on April 26, 2015, 07:24:42 PM
They could probably just hire the guy who did Papers, Please to write the underlying paperwork logic.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on April 26, 2015, 07:51:38 PM
And once that's all in place, it opens up the exciting new career path of Auditor! Review virtual paperwork for hours on end! Track down that missing form FU-10032-QQ/A that might slow down your opponent's business license! Passively-aggressively overlook their valid supporting materials, forcing them into the dreaded Appeals Process! It's hardcore player-vs-player action the likes of which hasn't been seen since the PK/Anti days of UO!

Heh, somebody knows how audits work.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Setanta on April 27, 2015, 04:13:23 AM

And once that's all in place, it opens up the exciting new career path of Auditor!

Auditors will be day 1 DLC. For $1500 you get a free drone that buzzes around calling you out for the invoices and receipts you lost.

Lawyers will be in the first QoL expansion - no one will know why they are there but without them you will not be allowed to fly, but you will lose your spaceship anyway.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on April 30, 2015, 04:22:59 PM
given the absolutely intense and madcap quantity of fan froth over this game, is there any reliable way that you could get roberts to read one thing by this point?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Furiously on May 01, 2015, 01:02:39 AM
given the absolutely intense and madcap quantity of fan froth over this game, is there any reliable way that you could get roberts to read one thing by this point?

I'm pretty sure he's reading his bank account balance every day while laughing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on May 01, 2015, 01:22:55 AM
You know who's gonna make this guy sad? Disney, in a few months, when they'll announce the Rogue One game, or whatver the new X Wing vs. Tie Fighter game will be called.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Fabricated on May 01, 2015, 04:33:44 AM
Somewhere on a tiny island in a subterranean lake a bitter, hateful Dr. Smerek Dart plots his vengeance and wonders why he wasn't able to pull this off. Also, he's probably mad at sunlight as well and is eating raw fish.

I wasn't going to touch this game, but when they add the Bureau of Titles and Registration system I'll have to bite. The chance, no, the requirement that I navigate a virtual title agency to get a starship license, then a small business licence, apply for tax exempt status, register my spaceship, register my company as an employer of less than 50 people that withholds payroll taxes, apply for hazardous material transportation licencing, find a good commercial bank and set up accounts with direct deposit, decide on employee benefit packages, etc, etc, etc. I wonder if they've even taken half of that stuff into account. I should go post those demands on their forum.

And once that's all in place, it opens up the exciting new career path of Auditor! Review virtual paperwork for hours on end! Track down that missing form FU-10032-QQ/A that might slow down your opponent's business license! Passively-aggressively overlook their valid supporting materials, forcing them into the dreaded Appeals Process! It's hardcore player-vs-player action the likes of which hasn't been seen since the PK/Anti days of UO!
I PK ur fax


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on May 01, 2015, 07:28:04 AM
You know who's gonna make this guy sad? Disney, in a few months, when they'll announce the Rogue One game, or whatver the new X Wing vs. Tie Fighter game will be called.

Not really.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on May 01, 2015, 07:39:53 AM
Yeah, totally different market for one. Wildly different gameplay promises for two. The guys convinced they'll be living in a virtual space world that's a combination Flight Sim/ Econ Sim/ FPS game will not give that dream up for a 3d spaceship platformer in the spirit of Rogue Squadron.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on May 01, 2015, 08:03:59 AM
I think he means just the difference in the number of 0's will make him cry.  80 million pfft.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on May 01, 2015, 08:55:36 AM
Who said anything about 'Rogue Squadron'? I said X Wing vs Tie Fighter/Alliance/Etc.

What I mean is that now that Space sims are back in style (thanks to Star Citizen too), people with real money and a real IP will exploit Chris Roberts efforts AND inability to deliver and will probably make the game that lots of people have been waiting for since X Wing Alliance... or actually Jump to Lightspeed (JTL incidentally had a lot more in common with Star Citizen than it's obvious at fist glance) while stealing some of Roberts features, especially the monetization ones.

Or do you really think that no greedy EA is trying to understand why Roberts is making easy money and will bring out the big guns to steal his thunder... especially now that the Star Wars IP is hotter than ever, and a specific new movie about Star Wars dogfights has been announced?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on May 01, 2015, 11:34:44 AM
My point is it's not going to be Xvs Tie. It's going to be a Battlefront/ Console-friendly version like Rogue Squadron.  Yes you'll have multi-axis control but it'll be centered around Controllers, not Joysticks and Keyboards and simulation. They're different beasts at the core.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on May 01, 2015, 12:23:33 PM
Sorry, give me Chris Roberts' mad dream anyday over some generic and lazy EA's console/pc crossover product.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on May 02, 2015, 06:57:03 AM
April monthly report:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14690-April-Monthly-Report

(front page of the website also got a facelift)

Patch 1.1.2 for Arena Commander, currently on the PTU (Public Test Universe; test server, basically), introduces a (still rough around the edges) tutorial.

Patch notes:
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/34360q/official_ptu_112_patch_notes_rsi_community_forums/

Here's a video of the new tutorial, that starts inside the so called "asteroid hangar":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvyL-MjXZz8


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on May 02, 2015, 02:59:25 PM
Who said anything about 'Rogue Squadron'? I said X Wing vs Tie Fighter/Alliance/Etc.

What I mean is that now that Space sims are back in style (thanks to Star Citizen too), people with real money and a real IP will exploit Chris Roberts efforts AND inability to deliver and will probably make the game that lots of people have been waiting for since X Wing Alliance... or actually Jump to Lightspeed (JTL incidentally had a lot more in common with Star Citizen than it's obvious at fist glance) while stealing some of Roberts features, especially the monetization ones.

Or do you really think that no greedy EA is trying to understand why Roberts is making easy money and will bring out the big guns to steal his thunder... especially now that the Star Wars IP is hotter than ever, and a specific new movie about Star Wars dogfights has been announced?

The nerdy hipsters who "believe in the vision" Roberts has for SC wouldn't touch a game like it from EA if their lives depended on it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on May 03, 2015, 09:56:48 AM
My point is it's not going to be Xvs Tie. It's going to be a Battlefront/ Console-friendly version like Rogue Squadron.  Yes you'll have multi-axis control but it'll be centered around Controllers, not Joysticks and Keyboards and simulation. They're different beasts at the core.

But to truly appreciate the Lord of Lensflares Genius you will need to have the cockpit camera randomly spinning around in 4 axis as you maneuver, to generate the true nuStarwars experience and BRING YOU INTO THE MOVIE


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Count Nerfedalot on May 05, 2015, 11:39:10 AM
You know who's gonna make this guy sad? Disney, in a few months, when they'll announce the Rogue One game, or whatver the new X Wing vs. Tie Fighter game will be called.

The absolute best thing that could happen to Roberts at this point is if someone else comes out with something prettier flashier more exciting and everyone forgets about Star Citizen completely, allowing them to slink off with all that money and no need to deliver anything. Of course those remaining fanboys aren't the most stable lot, so he'd still have to look over his shoulder for the rest of his life.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Azazel on May 05, 2015, 12:46:07 PM
Sorry, give me Chris Roberts' mad dream anyday over some generic and lazy EA's console/pc crossover product.

Give me a probably-broken-at-launch, Origin-only, consolitis-controlled, DLC-infested game that gets released and manages to be fun any day over Chris Roberts' mad endless scam.

Or to put it another way, the bar is not high.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on May 06, 2015, 09:10:31 AM
Who said anything about 'Rogue Squadron'? I said X Wing vs Tie Fighter/Alliance/Etc.

What I mean is that now that Space sims are back in style (thanks to Star Citizen too), people with real money and a real IP will exploit Chris Roberts efforts AND inability to deliver and will probably make the game that lots of people have been waiting for since X Wing Alliance... or actually Jump to Lightspeed (JTL incidentally had a lot more in common with Star Citizen than it's obvious at fist glance) while stealing some of Roberts features, especially the monetization ones.

Or do you really think that no greedy EA is trying to understand why Roberts is making easy money and will bring out the big guns to steal his thunder... especially now that the Star Wars IP is hotter than ever, and a specific new movie about Star Wars dogfights has been announced?

I think 80M is real money. I don't think Chris has failed to delivery anything yet. Anything in the MMO space is going to be multiple years in development and SC is in year 3? now.

Even then a dogfight game will be a fun game, but it's a completely different genre than some kind of MMO that this game is supposed to be.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on May 06, 2015, 09:44:19 AM
The way I see it:

- You have the Star Wars license. Hundreds of ships that everyone loves and would kill to pilot or simply put in their virtual hangars.
- You have crazy good looking and performing technology these days. Put a decent team on it and it's gonna look mindblowing.
- You know it can't be a silly dogfighting game. Make an arena if you want, but put a bit of legs to sustain it. Forget FPS, but make sure that people can move around your ships and between them. Hangars, of course. And walking around. Avatars. Nothing more than what you could do in Jumo To Lightspeed.
- Also, multicrew.
- Make sure 3rd person is possible and viable but 1st person is even better or at least equal.
- Sell special ships the same way World of Tanks AND Star Citizen do. A mix of both.

Huge profit.

Again, if you think of a new Star Wars arcade, then it's a wasted oportunity and it makes no sense whatsoever.
But if you do Xwing/TieFighter/JTL with a liiiiitle bit of Star Citizens dreams added, you beat Chris Roberts. Because people couldn't even get mad at you for the microtransactions this time as what Roberts is doing is worse than any EA nightmare anyway (yeah yeah everything is obtainable in-game, yadda).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Viin on May 06, 2015, 09:46:04 AM
Again, if you think of a new Star Wars arcade, then it's a wasted oportunity and it makes no sense whatsoever.

Except you can make 20 of those for the same cost. And charge $50 a pop to every fanboi out there and make a killing. Easy money.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on May 06, 2015, 09:59:36 AM
You are all probably right, for real. No need to stretch this fantasy any longer so I'll just concede it all. I just want to leave with a question though.

If you were an EA fucking Corporate moron who happens to have the power to push projects, wouldn't you be thinking "We have this license that is collecting dust even though it's actually hotter than ever, and there's another game that is pretty much building on it and making lots of money. I think I am gonna steal what I can from their bag of tricks and use my license to bring a slice of that pie back home!!"... ? You really think that's so far fetched, or that it's so hard to make a new Xwing vs. Tie Fighter that steals some ideas from Elite and Star Citizen?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Viin on May 06, 2015, 10:03:44 AM
There might be something contractually preventing them from doing that. Especially since I see them pushing the old XWing/etc on Steam a lot these days. But I wouldn't be surprised if they did something, though I would imagine it'll be arcade-y rather than sim-like, since EA doesn't really make games for hardcore gamers.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tmon on May 06, 2015, 10:21:30 AM
Why not a Star Wars version War Thunder.  That game seems to have done pretty well at appealing to both the arcade types and the more sim oriented gamers. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on May 06, 2015, 01:10:03 PM
The way I see it:

- You have the Star Wars license. Hundreds of ships that everyone loves and would kill to pilot or simply put in their virtual hangars.
- You have crazy good looking and performing technology these days. Put a decent team on it and it's gonna look mindblowing.
- You know it can't be a silly dogfighting game. Make an arena if you want, but put a bit of legs to sustain it. Forget FPS, but make sure that people can move around your ships and between them. Hangars, of course. And walking around. Avatars. Nothing more than what you could do in Jumo To Lightspeed.
- Also, multicrew.
- Make sure 3rd person is possible and viable but 1st person is even better or at least equal.
- Sell special ships the same way World of Tanks AND Star Citizen do. A mix of both.

Huge profit.

Again, if you think of a new Star Wars arcade, then it's a wasted oportunity and it makes no sense whatsoever.
But if you do Xwing/TieFighter/JTL with a liiiiitle bit of Star Citizens dreams added, you beat Chris Roberts. Because people couldn't even get mad at you for the microtransactions this time as what Roberts is doing is worse than any EA nightmare anyway (yeah yeah everything is obtainable in-game, yadda).

Well sure, if Disney makes a full blown Star Wars MMO with a lot of pew pew, it would kill Star Citizen. That shit ain't happening though.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on May 06, 2015, 01:31:32 PM
I'm not sure there is any dev house or lead designer competent enough to make that full-blown Star Wars MMO Falconeer suggests, regardless of the budget.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lantyssa on May 06, 2015, 01:41:09 PM
Jump to Lightspeed...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on May 06, 2015, 02:19:33 PM
Again, I am not talking about an arcade, nor a full blown MMO. Something in between.

Instances, with A BIT of persistence and some walking around your hangar and ships. Yes, JTL without the whole SWG ground part. Not that huge of a thing.

I also want to add that I don't think Star Citizen is going to be the kind of MMO people think it's going to be. It's heavily instanced and it doesn't have crafting. So,  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on May 06, 2015, 05:28:21 PM
I'm still pretty sure Star Citizen isn't going to be anything really. Like, at most a Daikatana thing, rushed out suddenly in the middle of the night.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on May 07, 2015, 01:09:28 AM
This game will be announced at the E3 next month. You heard it here first.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on May 07, 2015, 06:23:18 AM
This game will be announced at the E3 next month. You heard it here first.

But in a private event for only the most elite donors.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on May 07, 2015, 07:21:28 AM
Well they already announced their single player game for the end of the year. Maybe. So I wouldn't be surprised about an E3 presence.

You'll also hear about 100000 hours of single player experience! Oh yeah next month buy the new chapter for $25!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on May 08, 2015, 07:59:32 AM
The odds that this game turns out as a smoking daikatana-level ruin or vaporware are I think pretty astoundingly low, but not as low as "the game is so good that it validates the decisions of people who spent many hundreds or thousands of dollars on it"



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on May 09, 2015, 09:31:27 AM
A few more updates:

BEHOLD: this is what $81M can actually achieve.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14704-Hyper-Vanguard-Force


No, anyway: like you can read in the description, that was realized by the external web team (Turbulent) based in Montreal. It features sprite models of the SC ships (dunno how many).
-------

MISC Starfarer sale:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14694-Fleshing-Out-The-Starfarer

This ship was among the first stretch goals of the project (at 3.25M, lol) ; it underwent a reworking because it will also feature inside Squadron 42; it's mainly a refueling/transport/hauler ship (more pics over at the link):

-----

Last but not least, a BIG update about the current state of "Star Marine", the FPS/Breathing module simulator:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14697-Star-Marine-FPS-Update

Yep, told ya it was a long (but interesting, IMO) read.

Don't have time to write a comprehensive summary (beside "when it's ready" :P), but anyway, it will feature three game modes. You can also watch a couple videos at the provided link:

- Gold Horizon (abandoned mining station)
- Astro Arena - Zero-G matches
- Astro Arena - SATA ball

Looks like they're really pushing the FPS studios (Illfonic) capabilities on this; Roberts claims it's going to be much more closer to a fully finished product compared to Arena Commander.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on May 14, 2015, 12:42:04 PM
Off Topic but since we (I) were talking about XWing vs. Tie Fighter, here's a new Kickstarter from one of the authors of that glorious series, trying to make a new one.

"World of Tanks meets Counterstrike, in space".... with real newtonian flight? That doesn't make any sense I believe.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/impellerstudios/starfighter-inc


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Kitsune on May 15, 2015, 02:42:31 AM
Uh, yeah.  There's a reason that I played TIE Fighter: I wanted to fly a TIE fighter.  The opportunity to fly generic sci-fi fighter is not really turning my crank here.  Now if they said they needed money to secure the licensing to make a new TIE fighter game, my money-filled fist would be shoved through my monitor in my haste to get it to them.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: DraconianOne on May 15, 2015, 08:38:01 AM
Off Topic but since we (I) were talking about XWing vs. Tie Fighter, here's a new Kickstarter from one of the authors of that glorious series, trying to make a new one.

"World of Tanks meets Counterstrike, in space".... with real newtonian flight? That doesn't make any sense I believe.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/impellerstudios/starfighter-inc

I keep seeing this link with various people saying "From the people who brought you X-Wing and TIE Fighter..." but it isn't. It's one of the guys who designed the missions for X-Wing and TIE Fighter. The game might be great in it's own right (although not a fan of the whole newtonian flight thing personally) but when Larry Holland and Ed Kilham come back and announce a new Space Fighter sim* then I'll be more interested.


*And as Kitsune said, all the better if it's a Star Wars licensed game or even an HD, more moddable version of X-Wing Alliance with XvT multiplayer


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on May 23, 2015, 07:29:44 AM
Two small tidbits of info:

Concept sale of what is going to be the third "starter" ship (the other two are the RSI Aurora and the CO Mustang) in the Persistent Universe, the MISC Reliant:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14730-MISC-Reliant-Now-Available

Fictionally, the main peculiarity is the inclusion of Xi'an technology (one of the alien races of the SC universe), that allows the ship to rotate the cockpit and engage in a vertical flight configuration (there is a brief video showing it at the mentioned link).

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/7rbiru5rccd99r/source/Reliant_SpaceFlightConfig_Updated_Final_Hobbins.png)

For now they're only selling it as a standalone ship, but when it will reach the so called "hangar ready" phase, they'll start selling it as a starter game package (like it happens now for the aforementioned Aurora and Mustang)
----------

Chris Roberts is currently in the UK (Manchester) for the "Performance Capture" of Squadron 42, and will stay there 'til (roughly) mid-late June; one thing worthy of note is the following tweet by a certain actor:

(http://i.imgur.com/n68wVAl.png)

A few months ago there was also a rumor about the possible participation of Tom Wilson  :awesome_for_real: :awesome_for_real:



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Goreschach on May 23, 2015, 12:32:28 PM
May the farce be with you.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: UnSub on May 29, 2015, 05:35:45 AM
I look forward to Roberts repeating his trick of hiring porn actors for their vocal talents.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on May 29, 2015, 06:48:53 AM
Are Malcolm McDowell and John Rhys Davis also heading for the UK?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Surlyboi on May 30, 2015, 09:08:54 AM
So the new ship's a B-Wing but not as cool looking.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: K9 on May 30, 2015, 10:29:49 AM
Why do you need alien technology to make your cockpit rotate? Seems pretty underwhelming as far as alien technology goes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on May 30, 2015, 11:16:22 AM
Why do you need the cockpit in your STARSHIP to roll at all?

Much as I love the B-wing, and was thrilled to have the feature in my toy, it bothered me that you'd never need that feature IN SPACE.

Carry on.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: K9 on May 30, 2015, 12:17:14 PM
A very valid point


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on May 30, 2015, 12:29:55 PM
Some quotes from the Reliant presentation page:

Quote
Greetings Citizens,

New for model year 2946, it’s the MISC Reliant! Following on the success of the Freelancer “Built for Life” campaign, MISC has begun development of a smaller, introductory-class spacecraft that can be operated by a single pilot. Although roughly designed to compete with the RSI Aurora and the Consolidated Outland Mustang, the Reliant is a very different animal. From the broad, sleek wings to the multiple flight modes and the second, fully-articulated crew seat, the Reliant is a small ship with a great deal of potential!

The MISC Reliant makes copious use of Xi’An technology, the most ever applied to a human ship design. From a moving cockpit that slots into place depending on the flight mode to omni-directional thrusters licensed under trade agreement with Aopoa, the Reliant is one of the most ‘high tech’ ships on the market today! Advanced Xi’An metal composites make up the armored wingspan, and every control surface has been meticulously updated from those developed for the Freelancer by MISC’s internal xenotech team.

A flying wing… or is it? The Reliant changes from horizontal to vertical flight modes at the touch of a button! With a larger cargo hold than the Aurora ES or the Mustang Alpha, the Reliant is a natural choice for anyone engaging in short-haul shipping. And that cargo space also means there’s plenty of internal room to expand, allowing the placement of medical systems, weapons racks and more. Ultimately, though, the Reliant is no transport: it’s a sleek and maneuverable utility ship more than capable of holding its own during combat!

Design notes from David Hobbins:

Quote
Goals

The design notes were for a Japanese aesthetic, which I interpreted by studying forms from both classical and modern Japanese art. I wanted the Reliant to evoke aspects of its Japanese design sensibility, and I looked at objects like the curve of a fan, the Ginko leaf, the beveled edge of a samurai sword, and other sources.

The design became less fan-like during the course of the concept process, and that’s okay, but it was a necessary step for me to kick off the design process. Another goal for the ship was to incorporate some Xi’An technology which was to be mostly internal but still should inform the ship’s exterior.

Quote
Challenges

The biggest challenge was figuring out how to maximize the cargo payload without compromising the ship’s distinctive profile and without making the overall wing frame too large. The Reliant is a mini-hauler, after all, and I needed a way to fit a respectable cargo volume into a relatively narrow wing frame. Initially I thought I could integrate the cargo into the wing frame itself, but the increased rotational weight would slow spinning maneuvers and also would open the door to other problem such as, balancing issues. For example, what if one side of the craft is loaded and the opposite isn’t? Countering this potential weight disparity would be too much for the maneuvering thrusters. So my final solution was to place the cargo hold at very the center of mass, maintaining the visual integrity of the narrow wings as well as minimizing the rotational weight and mismatch cargo configurations.

Quote
Fun

The most fun was creating an animation of the Reliant – going from a landing configuration to space combat mode. It’s really satisfying to see a design fully come to life.

I guess it starts making more sense when you consider that it has the potential for a second crew member acting as a gunner; in theory, the aforementioned rotation should give better visibility (beside the difference with the flight mode) when shooting lazerz at baddies.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on June 01, 2015, 04:23:15 PM
Ok, this is kinda off topic, but a nice trip down the memory lane concerning the original Wing Commander (1990). Earlier this year, Mary Bellis passed away.

Who was her? In short, she was an uncredited, but vital figure in the development of WC: with that kind of modeling still in its infancy, she was responsible for the creation of all the 3D ship models of the original Wing Commander, using a program on the Amiga called Sculpt 3D.

You can read the full story, which includes some nice anecdotes and pictures, here:
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/265726/remembering-mary-bellis

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/2o1lqmsfi1xpyr/source/Postcard_from_Mary.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: UnSub on June 03, 2015, 08:03:03 AM
Why do you need alien technology to make your cockpit rotate?

Because you've run out of ideas and people appear willing to throw money at any crap you release provided it is new?

I mean if we're going to think about starship design so that it isn't based on a 1920s biplane style aka Star Wars, we should be talking about full 3D HUDs where 'you' are the ship.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Kitsune on June 05, 2015, 12:39:33 AM
Why do you need alien technology to make your cockpit rotate?

Because you've run out of ideas and people appear willing to throw money at any crap you release provided it is new?

I mean if we're going to think about starship design so that it isn't based on a 1920s biplane style aka Star Wars, we should be talking about full 3D HUDs where 'you' are the ship.

If we're going to be opening that particular can of worms, we should be talking about how humans having manual control over spacecraft trying to shoot other spacecraft a few hundred feet away is fundamentally stupid.  Actual space combat would take place at distances of hundreds of kilometers and be completely automated because no human could possibly have the reflexes and precision needed to hit something moving at a fraction of the speed of light.  But that's pretty much the opposite of fun, so it's not what you'll be seeing people playing anytime soon.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on June 05, 2015, 06:34:10 AM
Why do you need alien technology to make your cockpit rotate?

Because you've run out of ideas and people appear willing to throw money at any crap you release provided it is new?

I mean if we're going to think about starship design so that it isn't based on a 1920s biplane style aka Star Wars, we should be talking about full 3D HUDs where 'you' are the ship.

If we're going to be opening that particular can of worms, we should be talking about how humans having manual control over spacecraft trying to shoot other spacecraft a few hundred feet away is fundamentally stupid.  Actual space combat would take place at distances of hundreds of kilometers and be completely automated because no human could possibly have the reflexes and precision needed to hit something moving at a fraction of the speed of light.  But that's pretty much the opposite of fun, so it's not what you'll be seeing people playing anytime soon.

Wait, isn't that Eve online?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on June 05, 2015, 01:42:57 PM
And many would argue Eve is the opposite of fun.   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on June 05, 2015, 02:01:20 PM
I didn't really think there was any argument there.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Setanta on June 05, 2015, 04:17:54 PM
I'd rather someone produced EvE Offline than Star Citizen. :D


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on June 05, 2015, 04:32:54 PM
And many would argue Eve is the opposite of fun.

Many would state that Eve isn't a game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on June 05, 2015, 06:20:52 PM
Many would say the same about WMS Iron Man.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on June 05, 2015, 06:23:06 PM
WOW GOOD ONE LAMAROS, A CLEVER, RELEVANT RETORT WITH LAYERS AND LAYERS OF DEEPNESS AND RELEVANCE.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on June 05, 2015, 09:38:19 PM
It's so dense. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXeA0Mqfw70)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on June 06, 2015, 06:11:19 AM
So the monthly update is longer than some Harry Potter books. On my phone so I can't link it. Do they people with thousands in this game even read all that shit?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lantyssa on June 06, 2015, 06:38:43 AM
They probably do, while scrolling with one hand.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on June 06, 2015, 06:45:37 AM
Any of this update actually being shown in the game on your PC, or is it still dogfighting with all new landing pads.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on June 07, 2015, 07:18:58 AM
They probably do, while scrolling with one hand.

Do you use a two handed mouse?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lantyssa on June 07, 2015, 10:24:23 AM
No, but I scroll with both hands while reading Star Citizen patch notes. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on June 07, 2015, 10:28:15 AM
They probably do, while scrolling with one hand.

 :awesome_for_real: :thumbs_up:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Furiously on June 07, 2015, 01:23:22 PM
I'm sure they have a HOTUS setup and scroll with the throttle and keep one hand on the joystick ready to flame the forums....

oh wait, it was a masturbation joke....


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on June 12, 2015, 05:38:41 PM
New Vanduul ship revealed, the "Void-Class Bomber" (more pics at the link):
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14774-Classified-Report-Vanduul-Bomber-Identified

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/6ebeie4h5m7ver/source/ScreenShot0005.jpg)

In-fiction:
Quote
NAVAL HIGH COMMAND, OFFICE OF PUBLIC AFFAIRS
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Release No: NR-2567-15E
June 12, 2945
Further Details on Vanduul Raid in Oberon


On June 11, 2945 at 02:40 SET, a distress call was sent from the civilian refueling station “Diamond Jim’s Fuelporium” located within the Oberon system near the planet Oberon VI. The 341st Squadron, already on patrol nearby, was sent to investigate when subsequent attempts to hail the station were unsuccessful.

Upon arriving, the 341st discovered that the station had been destroyed. No survivors were found.


Information pulled from the station’s recovered data drives reveal that at 02:36 SET two Vanduul Bombers, UEE designation ‘Void,’ had entered within range of the station’s proximity sensors. After detecting the presence of these hostile Void Bombers, owner and operator of the station, Citizen Jim Hester, had initiated emergency procedures which triggered the aforementioned distress call. Though the station was armed with turrets, it seems that the Vanduul Bombers were able to maneuver past the station’s defenses and release a devastating mixture of missiles and boarding craft. No ships or escape pods were able to launch from the refueling station before it was overwhelmed. All 56 beings aboard at the time of the attack were killed. A full list of the deceased will be released once next of kin have been notified.


As of the release of this report, Navy forces have been unable to track down the ships responsible. Patrols will continue to search the area.

All signs point to this being an isolated incident, with the Vanduul’s main goal being the acquisition of fuel. While this is a tragic event, it is the opinion of the Naval High Command that this is not indicative of any organized Vanduul incursion into UEE space, but rather a solitary raid.


For more information, media may contact the UEE Navy High Command Public Affairs Office during normal hours.

ATTACHED: Naval Intelligence has provided a preliminary specification sheet and the latest imagery of the Void bomber. Civilians are advised to avoid any engagement with this ship type until more details are known.

UEE NAVY HIGH COMMAND
Office of Public Affairs
1631-2 Media Relations
Tamerlane, MacArthur, Killian

Some specs:

LENGTH   124m
BEAM   90m
HEIGHT   33m
MAX CREW   UNKNOWN
POWER PLANT   4 (equivalent)
ENGINE (PRIMARY THRUSTER)   3x TR5 (equivalent)
MANEUVERING THRUSTERS   10x TR3 (equivalent)
SHIELD   5 (equivalent)
FIXED GUNS   3 x Size 6 – Electron Cannon
MISSILES   4 x Size 4 – Triple-Mount Torpedo Cluster
TURRETS   7 x Size 4 – Laser Repeater Turret
------

The other, currently known Vanduul ships are  the "Scythe", which is the standard light ship of Arena Commander (basically the role of, let's say, the "Salthi" in WC 3), and the "Glaive", a symmetrical modification of the Scythe.

Regarding the Scythe, first of all here's and old video of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSg8eNvLqCo

And here's how Cloud Imperium games is modifying it for the human flyable version:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14773-Preview-Flying-The-Scythe

Video (vimeo):
https://player.vimeo.com/video/130595615
-----

As Squadron 42 approaches, they'll unveil more of the Vanduul fleet (Stinger, Cleaver, Hunter, Mauler, Blade, Driller, Kingship and possibly more)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on June 27, 2015, 09:00:25 AM
Yesterday, CIG unveiled (for now only as concept art) the first "Civilian Passenger Transport" they'll include in the game, along with the accompanying game system and career they're planning for it.

Here is the CI (Crusader Industries) Genesis Starliner:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14801-Introducing-The-Genesis-Starliner

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/840ju8ha6gjpir/source/Starliner_productshot1_comp2.jpg)
(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/ljskf08rgg0r6r/post/Starliner_final_04.jpg)
(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/qwgqjtnxain38r/source/Mixmaster.png)

And here is the design document by Tony Zurovec:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14804-Design-Civilian-Passenger-Transport

Now, if you have a few minutes, be sure to read it because, as always with SC, this "sub-system" is basically a game in itself; to summarize, beside the actual "flying" component by whoever is at the helm, it's a series of minigames for both the personnel and the passengers (ICES, Mixmaster, Medical Diagnosis and Treatment, Flight Attendants)

It's worthy of note that you can assign the various "maintenance" activities/minigames to NPCs, if you just want to stick to the flying part.

Oh, and of course the passengers (I think the Genesis has a max. capacity of 40) can all be NPCs too (but I'm sure some crazy ass RPers like me will use it from time to time :P)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on June 27, 2015, 09:56:41 AM
-_-


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on June 27, 2015, 10:56:22 AM
The best time to introduce new systems is when none of the previous ones are implemented.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on June 27, 2015, 11:44:30 AM
Feel the thrill and romance of being a bus driver in the high vacumn.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tannhauser on June 27, 2015, 12:02:51 PM
In space no one can hear you...mix drinks?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Xuri on June 27, 2015, 01:51:42 PM
Oh good, I always dreamt about becoming a flight attendant. In space.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on June 27, 2015, 02:52:14 PM
You heard me Data, set a course... for Love! (https://vimeo.com/67326569)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on June 27, 2015, 03:37:01 PM
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1881406/images/n-LOVE-BOAT-TV-SHOW-large570.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on June 27, 2015, 06:05:41 PM
Every time I think Chris Roberts and his crew cannot possibly surprise or baffle me any more than they already have, they manage to do so in style.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on June 27, 2015, 06:11:53 PM
Star Citizen is going to yield so much drama, tears, and good popcorn material. I can't wait for them to hit that threshold where even the most die-hard supporters begin to expect the game they were promised.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on June 27, 2015, 06:28:22 PM
(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/qwgqjtnxain38r/source/Mixmaster.png)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/db/TapperGameplay.png/220px-TapperGameplay.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on June 27, 2015, 07:33:51 PM
The best time to introduce new systems is when none of the previous ones are implemented.

The ultimate end-result of too many designers and not enough workers. It's like watching a project from my Firm's design studio without a fixed deadline.  :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on June 28, 2015, 08:58:45 AM
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zFm97YREBwY/Umd3fG2bCUI/AAAAAAAAOds/eiJcnyZ5TAM/s1600/bender-laughing.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on June 28, 2015, 11:13:30 AM
So European trucker simulator in space?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on June 28, 2015, 02:53:54 PM
So European trucker simulator in space?

Even better than that.  European Truck Passenger Simulator 2016


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on June 28, 2015, 02:54:25 PM
You know, if they could do that competently, it probably wouldn't be a bad game. But Star Stews just sounds... fucking stupid.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on June 29, 2015, 04:57:10 AM
It's worthy of note that you can assign the various "maintenance" activities/minigames to NPCs, if you just want to stick to the flying part.

Oh, and of course the passengers (I think the Genesis has a max. capacity of 40) can all be NPCs too (but I'm sure some crazy ass RPers like me will use it from time to time :P)

Can these things actually be done?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on June 29, 2015, 07:27:32 AM
Define "be done".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on June 29, 2015, 08:18:31 AM
Can these things actually be done?
What, assigning maintenance tasks to NPCs and/or NPCs acting as passengers with demands? Sure. They're present in a number of games, usually of the "Tycoon" or some other business sim variety.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on June 29, 2015, 09:06:08 AM
Does that number of games include Star Citizen?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on June 29, 2015, 10:33:34 AM
Nothing can be done in Star Citizen yet.   :awesome_for_real:



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on June 29, 2015, 10:41:02 AM
LIES!!!

You can Land! AND! You can take off!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on June 29, 2015, 11:00:46 AM
LIES!!!

You can Land! AND! You can take off!

We already have an Elite Dangerous thread. Thanks.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on June 29, 2015, 11:13:44 AM
Does that number of games include Star Citizen?
Everything can be done in Star Citizen. You just need to close your eyes and dream really hard.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on June 29, 2015, 11:21:10 AM
Incidentally, they have apparently suffered security leak last month, and the virtual thieves made away with over 40 gb of unfinished space fantasies:

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/star-citizen-suffers-40gb-assets-leak-bengal-carrier-rendered-in-the-consumer-version-of-cryengine/

Quote
Star Citizen and Cloud Imperium Games have suffered a massive assets leak. A couple of hours ago, a community manager for CIG posted a screen shot that included a partial URL. Naturally, some people guessed the rest and were able to get on a torrent containing around 40GB of unreleased assets.

And even though Cloud Imperium Games was quick to react and shut it down, two people managed to completely download this enormous pack of unreleased assets.

This basically means that this pack of leaked assets is currently available on the Internet, and YouTube’s member ‘Parias Denton’ has released a new video, showcasing the enormous Bengal carrier (that was included in that pack).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on June 29, 2015, 11:23:24 AM
Again?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on June 29, 2015, 11:27:33 AM
Does that number of games include Star Citizen?
Everything can be done in Star Citizen. You just need to close your eyes and dream really hard.

Star Citizen is the zombo.com (http://zombo.com/) of video games.  Except that it's actually profitable somehow.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on June 29, 2015, 11:29:19 AM
Again?

I dunno, was there more than one? This one happened month ago or so, I just didn't see a mention of it in this thread around relevant time so thought it passed unnoticed.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on June 29, 2015, 11:30:25 AM
Oh, maybe it's the same one then.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on June 29, 2015, 11:44:19 AM
Star Citizen is the zombo.com (http://zombo.com/) of video games.  Except that it's actually profitable somehow.

You'd think I'd have learnt about clicking links by now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Torinak on June 29, 2015, 02:21:17 PM
Incidentally, they have apparently suffered security leak last month, and the virtual thieves made away with over 40 gb of unfinished space fantasies:

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/star-citizen-suffers-40gb-assets-leak-bengal-carrier-rendered-in-the-consumer-version-of-cryengine/

Quote
Star Citizen and Cloud Imperium Games have suffered a massive assets leak. A couple of hours ago, a community manager for CIG posted a screen shot that included a partial URL. Naturally, some people guessed the rest and were able to get on a torrent containing around 40GB of unreleased assets.

And even though Cloud Imperium Games was quick to react and shut it down, two people managed to completely download this enormous pack of unreleased assets.

This basically means that this pack of leaked assets is currently available on the Internet, and YouTube’s member ‘Parias Denton’ has released a new video, showcasing the enormous Bengal carrier (that was included in that pack).


If your corporate security consists of serving up everything to the entire world via the web and then hoping that people can't guess URLs, you have some pretty big problems.

On the plus side, 40GB is probably only, what, 2 or 3 of those virtual posters to buy to hang up in your ship's virtual hangar bay?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on June 30, 2015, 11:23:16 AM
Some SC die-hards I know online are up in a rage over...

 Star Citizen FPS module delayed indefinintely. (http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/30/8871167/star-citizens-fps-module-delayed-indefinitely)

Chris Roberts spends three quarters of his production letter making excuses about technical problems facing the FPS module. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14803-Letter-From-The-Chairman)

So I am assuming ship boarding pvp is out for the forseable future. I wonder if it will be some sort of crappy minigame.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on June 30, 2015, 11:32:57 AM
Will we still be able to hide in crates?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on June 30, 2015, 11:38:44 AM
Unable to get a FPS off the ground?  There's no real excuse for that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on June 30, 2015, 11:49:13 AM
They can't get it to work on the ground either. :rimshot:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on June 30, 2015, 11:56:49 AM
Everyone here already knows that this isn't going to be the only "module" that gets put on hold "indefinitely."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on June 30, 2015, 12:11:28 PM
They couldn't make the easiest part work well?

SHOCKED

SHOCKED I TELL YOU


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on June 30, 2015, 12:14:39 PM
Everyone here already knows that this isn't going to be the only "module" that gets put on hold "indefinitely."

It's like waiting for Amy Winehouse to finally OD. When it happens, nobody is going to be shocked.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mithas on June 30, 2015, 12:19:29 PM
I wish they would hurry up with the train wreck. I am not sure I have the patience to wait years for it to happen.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on June 30, 2015, 12:24:36 PM
Is there a schedule for when some sort of "game" is going to be released?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on June 30, 2015, 12:38:44 PM
Oh, the game has already been released.

(https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgyf9tt2I21qcvehpo1_500.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on June 30, 2015, 12:40:45 PM
You are the product.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on June 30, 2015, 12:58:38 PM
You are the product.



Be the content!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rasix on June 30, 2015, 01:05:36 PM
The module integration on this sucker is going to take years.  It'll be like converting a refrigerator filled with sauces into a cohesive condiment. Well, provided any of them survive development.  I'm sure the SodaStream minigame module is facing some challenges. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on June 30, 2015, 01:11:23 PM
Would be pretty funny if that ends up being one of the only ones to see the light of day.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on June 30, 2015, 04:37:37 PM
I'm sure the SodaStream minigame module is facing some challenges. 

I imagine the flight attendant career path is going to face hurdles similar to the hurdles their fps module faced.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on June 30, 2015, 08:19:12 PM
1. They said CryEngine is already an FPS engine so making an FPS with it would be trivial

2. Their "we need to rework the back-end" excuse is literally the exact same excuse they made when the dogfighting was delayed.

3. This game is never coming out, at least not in the form backers have been lead to believe.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on June 30, 2015, 08:20:45 PM
Yeah, but do you have anything to say that wasn't said about 50 pages ago in this thread?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 01, 2015, 02:19:42 AM
The module integration on this sucker is going to take years.  It'll be like converting a refrigerator filled with sauces into a cohesive condiment. Well, provided any of them survive development.  I'm sure the SodaStream minigame module is facing some challenges. 

Remember when we ALL said that the integration between these systems was going to be hell and someone kept repeating "nu-huh because they have been building with integration in mind from the get-go"?

 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on July 01, 2015, 11:17:16 AM
But... they released 2 HUUUGE patches that was supposed to be all back end stuff that will make integration easier.

In the meantime All you got in your actual game was a place that you can take off and land. It doesn't do anything to your ship when you do but by God you can land on it AND take off.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Shannow on July 01, 2015, 12:33:05 PM
This thread maybe the funniest thing on f13. Comedy gold.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: angry.bob on July 01, 2015, 01:40:04 PM
3. This game is never coming out, at least not in the form backers have been lead to believe.

Yeah, if this game ever comes out the money hats come off. The next step in monetization will be an official Patreon account to give the team ongoing monthly "support". Community menmbers seem to have already set up accounts so they can follow Star Citizen news 24 hours a day and report on it without their wives getting pissed that they're no longer employed or leaving the house.

If this thing ever comes to an end without it resulting in the greatest playable game of it's time, Chris Roberts is going to be killed by a community member. Seriously. These people are fucking unhinged and ruined their lives. If they ever realize that they have nothing left to lose and their life in a prison would be better than what they have left he's fucked.

I can't wait for the news that the development has taken so long that they have to convert everything over to a new engine.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Nija on July 01, 2015, 01:48:12 PM
I don't even know how to convert the deep, hearty, guttural belly laugh that I just emitted into text.

This is The Best News.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on July 01, 2015, 01:53:55 PM
Star Citizen, a game where the only way to win is not to pay.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on July 01, 2015, 02:00:22 PM
There's a new monthly report:

(http://abload.de/img/leak06ugp.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Triforcer on July 03, 2015, 05:58:24 PM
3. This game is never coming out, at least not in the form backers have been lead to believe.

Yeah, if this game ever comes out the money hats come off. The next step in monetization will be an official Patreon account to give the team ongoing monthly "support". Community menmbers seem to have already set up accounts so they can follow Star Citizen news 24 hours a day and report on it without their wives getting pissed that they're no longer employed or leaving the house.

If this thing ever comes to an end without it resulting in the greatest playable game of it's time, Chris Roberts is going to be killed by a community member. Seriously. These people are fucking unhinged and ruined their lives. If they ever realize that they have nothing left to lose and their life in a prison would be better than what they have left he's fucked.

I can't wait for the news that the development has taken so long that they have to convert everything over to a new engine.

Yeah, I am torn about whether 10s of millions is worth it if you have to move to an island and never leave your armed compound to stay ahead of that crowd.  Actually, not worth it- angry maladjusted hackers will cyber locate you anywhere.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on July 03, 2015, 06:43:02 PM
Yeah, I am torn about whether 10s of millions is worth it if you have to move to an island and never leave your armed compound to stay ahead of that crowd.
You only need to present them a convincing scapegoat who will take the fall for you. They want to believe.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Miasma on July 03, 2015, 07:15:51 PM
As a non-sequitur here is a higher rez version of that image I found.  I have cropped out the stupid car.

(http://i.imgur.com/J2iEcxb.png)

Who the fuck paints a car yellow other than new york cabbies and even then its only because laws force them to?

Closer up it looks like her poor ankles are buckling in those insane shoes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on July 04, 2015, 12:55:07 AM
.....what?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on July 04, 2015, 01:13:12 AM
Yeah somebody needs to turn in his man car since he clearly does not know anything about exotic cars.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on July 04, 2015, 05:15:53 AM
Man cars and exotic cars are pretty different though.


I really am enjoying the ongoing saga of Star Citizen. I was talking to an 18-year old prospective student a little while ago and he turned out to be really excited about Star Citizen and I thought, "Oh, you poor child, the world is going to disappoint you so."

If only Jeff from Glitchless had peaked at the right time, he could have really scored big with his promises of fetuspults. Dawn could have been an Early Access Steam game.

Someday someone's going to make a movie about this whole moment in time and it's going to be something like The Sting--grifters and con men up against each other. Maybe there will be plucky underdogs who try to steal Star Citizen's assets so they can actually make a release-ready game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: DraconianOne on July 04, 2015, 02:59:09 PM
Someday someone's going to make a movie about this whole moment in time

Probably Chris Roberts and if you contribute enough to the Kickstarter, you too can be involved in the pre-production of the film.  Initially, it's going to be a documentary but if they reach the stretch goals, it will be a hard sci-fi opera action horror romantic espionage thriller drama comedy zombie musical stage show with audience participation from those who make extra donations.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on July 04, 2015, 03:08:27 PM
Also each scene will be shot by a different director and crew and Chris will mainly be splicing all the shots together to make the final film.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on July 04, 2015, 08:01:10 PM
So, just in case you hadn't gotten your fill of entertainment from this game, it looks like our old friend Serek Dmart has entered the fray with a lovely tumblr post.  Just read the second half of that sentence one more time for your own enjoyment.

Ok, so, here we go. (http://dereksmart3000ad.tumblr.com/post/123125564079/interstellar-citizens) Warning, it's long. Real long.

In typical Serek Dmart fashion it starts out with...

Quote
MY LEGACY
Throughout the noise, my own Battlecruiser series, which later evolved to the Universal Combat series once I figured out how to throw in the kitchen sink without breaking my back, continued to carve out its own niche fan base which comprised of very hardcore gamers.

The scary part is that his criticism of Star Citizen, that starts kind of far in to the meandering blog post, makes a lot of sense.  Yep, we're through the looking glass.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on July 04, 2015, 08:30:46 PM
I was wondering when he would show up. I still remember his posts in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games where he would talk about how BC was going to scale from capital ships to individual soldiers engaging in boarding actions.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on July 04, 2015, 08:45:53 PM
Goddamnit, you know shit is totally fucked when that guy makes more sense than the people with $85 million in their fucking hands. Makes you want to smash a fucking coke machine.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Fabricated on July 05, 2015, 09:18:19 AM
Can we not word filter Smart's name that we may summon him to communally make fun of Star Citizen?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: apocrypha on July 05, 2015, 09:42:40 AM
Can we not word filter Smart's name that we may summon him to communally make fun of Star Citizen?

That's about as good an idea as a nuclear hand grenade.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on July 05, 2015, 10:59:33 AM
So, just in case you hadn't gotten your fill of entertainment from this game, it looks like our old friend Serek Dmart has entered the fray with a lovely tumblr post.  Just read the second half of that sentence one more time for your own enjoyment.

Ok, so, here we go. (http://dereksmart3000ad.tumblr.com/post/123125564079/interstellar-citizens) Warning, it's long. Real long.

In typical Serek Dmart fashion it starts out with...

Quote
MY LEGACY
Throughout the noise, my own Battlecruiser series, which later evolved to the Universal Combat series once I figured out how to throw in the kitchen sink without breaking my back, continued to carve out its own niche fan base which comprised of very hardcore gamers.

The scary part is that his criticism of Star Citizen, that starts kind of far in to the meandering blog post, makes a lot of sense.  Yep, we're through the looking glass.


Once you get past the self promotion of the rest of his blog about how awesome he and his games have been, he does have a lot of valid points about Star Citizen.  I'm willing to bet his MMO will be released and have more people actually playing it than SC ever will, which is really kind of  :ye_gods:.

Also, an oldie but a goodie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIn1_9YvGds



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mandella on July 05, 2015, 01:17:27 PM
The thing with Nerek Pmart is that when he's not talking about his own games he really does make interesting points about the industry and the mistakes everyone else is making.

In other news, it's easier to throw rocks than build a glass house...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on July 05, 2015, 04:14:32 PM
That shit was tl;dr. I don't care enough about Serek or Star Citizen to bother.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on July 05, 2015, 05:03:00 PM
You don't care about those things but care enough to post in a thread about things you posted about not caring about


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on July 06, 2015, 03:11:26 AM
Rumors of people leaving the project. An executive director in this case.

http://www.destructoid.com/star-citizen-s-executive-producer-might-have-quit-the-project-295413.phtml?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on July 06, 2015, 05:52:28 AM
Quote
All the promises made by the men of this development house proved to be, if not acts of intentional deception, then no less damnable illusions. The “achievements of Star Citizen” were, taken in their entirety, agreeable for only the smallest of fractions of the playerbase, but for the overwhelming majority, at least insofar as these people were forced to play the early game, they were infinitely sad. It is understandable that the survival instinct of those parties and men guilty of this development invents a thousand euphemisms and excuses. An objective comparison of the average outcome of the last fourteen months with the promises once proclaimed is a crushing indictment of the responsible architects of this crime unparalleled in gaming history.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on July 06, 2015, 10:50:18 AM
Rumors of people leaving the project. An executive director in this case.

http://www.destructoid.com/star-citizen-s-executive-producer-might-have-quit-the-project-295413.phtml?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter



D.S. called it out in the blog post above and later edited the verification in. The folks who want to keep careers in the industry and aren't naive young upstarts are starting to jump ship, it would seem.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on July 06, 2015, 11:11:02 AM
There are probably a billion Executive Producers, though, so losing one doesn't really mean anything.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on July 06, 2015, 11:35:14 AM
They could Kickstarter for more Executive Producers!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on July 06, 2015, 11:39:09 AM
They could auction a one-off ship and the highest bidder gets to be an Exec Producer!



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on July 06, 2015, 12:31:54 PM
Rumors of people leaving the project. An executive director in this case.

http://www.destructoid.com/star-citizen-s-executive-producer-might-have-quit-the-project-295413.phtml?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter



A peruse of the commentg thread is very very notable for the wonderful delusion evidenced by the fanboys. For example...



Quote
I'll also say that I only payed forty dollars for the game and alpha access. Every dime after that I consider payment rendered for getting to watch the fascinating process of a game getting made.

I got to see how models are taken from concept to final implementation, including an entire reality show where industry newcomers and veterans alike competed! I saw the evolution of a large multi-crew ship interior, from first thoughts to various variants! I now know what the heck a producer does! (Hint: producer is not, in actuality, another word for investor) I got a taste of what is, in my long history of space sims, hands down the best dogfighting I have ever played. Yes, it is better than Freespace's mechanics! Hell, even the Internet drama about employees leaving fascinates me.

The best part of it all was, I really didn't have to pay a dime for it. Even the subscriber exclusive stuff gets dumped on reddit in short order. I payed CIG obscene amounts of money because I have honestly not been this entertained or fascinated in a long time and I am one of the many who believe in rewarding that.

I'm especially interested since I recently switched my major from Physics to programming with a focus in Physics(notice the capital, very important). As such, I am currently undergoing delusions that I may one day be able to develop my own indie game and am astutely taking notes.

At this point, even if the game fails spectacularly, I have more than gotten my money's worth. (Seriously, do you know how much one semester of classes costs!? Do you!?! This doesn't even compare.)

And when they rape me, I know they are actually filling me with light!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on July 06, 2015, 01:02:51 PM
Oh my, I've somehow missed that the single player will be split into three episodes. Money paid thus far only covers the first one of course.  :grin:

No link because I can't be arsed to find one.

edit: I did anyway. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/31pk2q/for_those_confused_about_squadron_42_and_what/


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tannhauser on July 06, 2015, 01:04:04 PM
And so it begins...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: apocrypha on July 06, 2015, 01:51:23 PM
Interesting point, the Reddit Star Citizen subs are *dead*. There are hardly any posts and the few posts there are get no comments. There is zero buzz about this 'game' outside of the bastions of fandom, i.e. the official forums. Seriously, there is more discussion about SC here than anywhere else.

They've got $85m and nobody except Serek Dmart is talking about them? No wonder people are starting to jump ship.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on July 06, 2015, 02:09:25 PM
Oh my, I've somehow missed that the single player will be split into three episodes. Money paid thus far only covers the first one of course.  :grin:

No link because I can't be arsed to find one.

edit: I did anyway. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/31pk2q/for_those_confused_about_squadron_42_and_what/
Seems fine to me. Unless he promised a trilogy at the beginning for backers. At this point Roberts Space Industries is just an idea factory and he needs to keep the ideas coming, like planning out part 3 of the trilogy, to keep the money flowing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Nija on July 06, 2015, 03:55:14 PM
Hired his brother to fill the vacant Exec. Producer role.

http://venturebeat.com/2015/07/06/star-citizen-loses-its-executive-producer-founder-chris-roberts-brother-takes-over-role/

That's a wrap, folks!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on July 06, 2015, 04:08:10 PM
Man this game has everything. Ponzi-esk funding strategy, nepotism, crazy blind faith type customers, ridiculous scope, blown out release schedule.

Any other industry on the planet would cancel the fuck out of this thing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Nija on July 06, 2015, 04:31:24 PM
This is almost too good to be true, but apparently his WIFE is the VP of Marketing:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12913-Meet-Sandi-Gardiner

Prior to this position she was a model/actress. Totally qualified, no doubt!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on July 06, 2015, 04:52:15 PM
It's like Sigil and 38 had a baby, and now it's all grown up.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 06, 2015, 04:52:44 PM
No one exists to "cancel" it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 06, 2015, 04:53:29 PM
I mean, none of this should shock anyone. That people gave it money to begin with was shocking to me. Now look where we are. A non-existent game with more economic viability than Greece.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on July 06, 2015, 04:54:01 PM
"Actress"

Waitresses give her a run for the credits list she's got. Two of the "known for" appearances are as herself in her husbands hype series. The rest look like uncredited parts or filler one line roles.
http://m.imdb.com/name/nm1667407/


Man this game has everything. Ponzi-esk funding strategy, nepotism, crazy blind faith type customers, ridiculous scope, blown out release schedule.

Any other industry on the planet would cancel the fuck out of this thing.

Any other industry has to deal with adults rather than introverted adult- children and teens.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Nija on July 06, 2015, 05:00:08 PM
Apparently if you mention anything about hiring his wife/brother on their forum it's an instant ban.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on July 06, 2015, 07:51:22 PM
I actually think any industry on this planet would envy the whole thing. As long as they didn't plan to be in business ten years later. Certainly every grifter on the planet is looking on this with awe and admiration and tender love.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on July 06, 2015, 08:28:50 PM
Quote
I'll also say that I only payed forty dollars for the game and alpha access. Every dime after that I consider payment rendered for getting to watch the fascinating process of a game getting made.

This is truly the saddest form of rationalization. This is the same thing Broken Age backers said - I'm funding a fascinating documentary! (The documentary was super boring and also eventually free...)

These people fund a game, then at some point they realize the game isn't what they imagined, but rather than just admit it they retroactively fit on another reason they spent money. It's like buying meat, finding out it's spoiled, then claiming what you really bought was the colorful packaging plus now you've learned a valuable lesson about spoilage.

The process here isn't fascinating at all, beyond how they've been able to manipulate people for money by making outlandish promises. But that's less game making and more scheming.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tebonas on July 06, 2015, 11:40:17 PM
Quote
As VP of Marketing (although I’m not sure about the title VP as it stands for Vice-President and there isn’t anyone above me in the Marketing Department)

Yes, this woman seems supremely qualified for a corporate job.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MisterNoisy on July 06, 2015, 11:45:15 PM
At least he didn't place her in a department that actually has to do anything.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on July 07, 2015, 12:06:12 AM
This is almost too good to be true, but apparently his WIFE is the VP of Marketing:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12913-Meet-Sandi-Gardiner

Prior to this position she was a model/actress. Totally qualified, no doubt!

Good Lord. :facepalm:

"She is of Philippine, Chinese, Native American (mother) and Welsh, English (father) descent."  What?  No Italian, Spanish, Korean or Jamaican?  How about Mongolian?
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1667407/  

This is going to be so fun to watch.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on July 07, 2015, 12:19:12 AM
Apparently if you mention anything about hiring his wife/brother on their forum it's an instant ban.

Asking if Chris and Sandi are married also seems to be frowned upon by the mods.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 07, 2015, 01:29:23 AM
This is the most irrelevant piece of information ever, but it doesn't seem so easy to find out if they are married or not. So basically, if it isn't mentioned anywhere, why are people speculating they are to begin with? Just a rumor?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on July 07, 2015, 01:45:03 AM
Quote
As VP of Marketing (although I’m not sure about the title VP as it stands for Vice-President and there isn’t anyone above me in the Marketing Department)

Yes, this woman seems supremely qualified for a corporate job.  :awesome_for_real:

If that comment is for real, then there isn't a facepalm big enough respond with.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tebonas on July 07, 2015, 01:54:19 AM
Its a quote from their offical website. If they made that up because they think its cute thats bad marketing and even worse. Hope the president of Marketing doesn't get wind of this.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: croaker69 on July 07, 2015, 04:26:37 AM
Quote
As VP of Marketing (although I’m not sure about the title VP as it stands for Vice-President and there isn’t anyone above me in the Marketing Department)

Yes, this woman seems supremely qualified for a corporate job.  :awesome_for_real:

I also lol'd reading that. So you're saying you don't understand standard corporate hierarchy and now you're at the top of one. Gold.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on July 07, 2015, 10:00:31 AM
Quote
As VP of Marketing (although I’m not sure about the title VP as it stands for Vice-President and there isn’t anyone above me in the Marketing Department)

Yes, this woman seems supremely qualified for a corporate job.  :awesome_for_real:

Amazing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on July 07, 2015, 11:15:47 AM
Quote
As VP of Marketing (although I’m not sure about the title VP as it stands for Vice-President and there isn’t anyone above me in the Marketing Department)

Yes, this woman seems supremely qualified for a corporate job.  :awesome_for_real:

I also lol'd reading that. So you're saying you don't understand standard corporate hierarchy and now you're at the top of one. Gold.

Yeah, I couldn't read beyond that line. I'm sure all the people who are now under her just LOVE that she can't figure out why she has the title. Maybe she was trying to be "cute" but it really just came off as fucking clueless. I think Curt Schilling is going to have to go loan shopping. He's too competitive to let this much of a fuckup go unchallenged.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on July 07, 2015, 11:17:39 AM
And again...
EDIT BY SCHILD: DON'T LINK TO THIS WASTE OF OXYGEN.

Quote

My article which I wrote, was a result of my observation that there is another industry disaster brewing, and which is, once again, going to not only cast the industry in a poor light if we didn’t do something, but which threatens to make it that much harder for the inbound generation to find their footing, because a bunch of people who came before, pretty much made it FUBAR.

And during my research for the piece, and for which I have hundreds of web articles, forum posts etc in an Evernote notepad, I came across a lot of things that I wasn’t even aware of. And once the article went live, I started hearing from all kinds of people in media, game development, gamers etc. And the more I read, the more I came to the realization that my article, which was merely a technical wake-up call of sorts, hadn’t even touched the tip of the iceberg. Which is why I am adding this next paragraph.

Quote
If you feel that you have been misled when you backed the Star Citizen project after Oct, 2012, and you want a chance to get your money back, the FTC has setup a special department that deals with crowd-funding complaints. You can fill out this form. Then select “Internet services, online shopping, or computers” then “Online shopping”. You can read more about that over here.

Cloud Imperium, LLC
9255 Sunset Blvd STE 803
West Hollywood, CA 90069
http://robertsspaceindustries.com
ir@cloudimperiumgames.com

 :awesome_for_real:

Also, that VP of Marketing thing is just fantastic.  I mean, really, just great.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on July 07, 2015, 12:19:26 PM
Maybe Roberts can get a job at the Pentagon designing military equipment.  I think he'd fit right in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=225&v=aXQ2lO3ieBA


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: justdave on July 07, 2015, 02:33:15 PM
And again...


Quote

My article which I wrote, was a result of my observation that there is another industry disaster brewing, and which is, once again, going to not only cast the industry in a poor light if we didn’t do something, but which threatens to make it that much harder for the inbound generation to find their footing, because a bunch of people who came before, pretty much made it FUBAR.

And during my research for the piece, and for which I have hundreds of web articles, forum posts etc in an Evernote notepad, I came across a lot of things that I wasn’t even aware of. And once the article went live, I started hearing from all kinds of people in media, game development, gamers etc. And the more I read, the more I came to the realization that my article, which was merely a technical wake-up call of sorts, hadn’t even touched the tip of the iceberg. Which is why I am adding this next paragraph.

Quote
If you feel that you have been misled when you backed the Star Citizen project after Oct, 2012, and you want a chance to get your money back, the FTC has setup a special department that deals with crowd-funding complaints. You can fill out this form. Then select “Internet services, online shopping, or computers” then “Online shopping”. You can read more about that over here.

Cloud Imperium, LLC
9255 Sunset Blvd STE 803
West Hollywood, CA 90069
http://robertsspaceindustries.com
ir@cloudimperiumgames.com

 :awesome_for_real:

Also, that VP of Marketing thing is just fantastic.  I mean, really, just great.

Is it racist if I say 'pot, kettle, black' too loudly in response to that?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Fabricated on July 07, 2015, 06:42:56 PM
Ðerek Smart has another long rambling missive on facebook and it is pretty good.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Fabricated on July 07, 2015, 08:19:24 PM
Also why do we word filter his name it's like the year of our lord 2015 not 1997 or some fucking shit where he could find us searching for his own name


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on July 07, 2015, 08:30:10 PM
Cause he has Google Alerts turned on for his name.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 07, 2015, 08:56:26 PM
And because he is human trash. The waste product of misspent DNA.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Abagadro on July 07, 2015, 09:58:24 PM
But...he has a TESLA!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 08, 2015, 01:31:56 AM
If I am reading this right, he issued an ultimatum to Chris Roberts, with a deadline. Failing to meet his requests will unleash to the media an open letter with the dirty secret truth about Star Citizen, which according to Smart should interest the US Federal Trade Commission.

EDIT: He claims it's worse than 38 Studios.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on July 08, 2015, 03:36:06 AM
If people at to look at the dark ones blog indirectly you can look at this article which uses part of his points to talk about what they call legitimate issues.

http://www.pcinvasion.com/star-citizen-will-never-get-made

Also the Star Citizen Reddit is quite vocal at the moment, quite amusingly so in fact.  :pedobear:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on July 08, 2015, 04:01:57 AM
Once you get past the self promotion of the rest of his blog about how awesome he and his games have been, he does have a lot of valid points about Star Citizen.  I'm willing to bet his MMO will be released and have more people actually playing it than SC ever will, which is really kind of  :ye_gods:.

Well he has put the 10,000 hours in that are needed - at least according to Malcolm Gladwell - to make you be great at what you do. Well it only made him be somewhat less shitty at his job than when he started so maybe Gladwells theory needs some additional work. It made him more competent than Chris Roberts when it comes to actually release games though, which is a scary thought.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on July 08, 2015, 04:06:03 AM
This is almost too good to be true, but apparently his WIFE is the VP of Marketing: Prior to this position she was a model/actress. Totally qualified, no doubt!

You wouldn't believe just how common it is for small or medium sized businesses to employ the wife or girlfriend (or mistress) of the President as the person responsible for marketing or human resources.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on July 08, 2015, 04:07:24 AM
Quote
As VP of Marketing (although I’m not sure about the title VP as it stands for Vice-President and there isn’t anyone above me in the Marketing Department)

You are vice president because you are one rung below the president of the company you stupid dolt!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on July 08, 2015, 04:10:03 AM
EDIT: He claims it's worse than 38 Studios.

Which wouldn't suprise me at all.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on July 08, 2015, 04:21:25 AM
Yeah 38 studios, didn't get enough money to make a game and then didn't make a game. It wasn't any kind of surprise to the people watching. It only blew up because of public money being thrown at a celebrity, some shitty treatment on employees around the time that the money ran out and Curt Schillings breathtaking hypocrisy. SC on the other hand has had far more money than they needed to make the game they (initially) pitched and still haven't made it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on July 08, 2015, 07:32:01 AM
I didn't realize the kickstarter was 2 years ago already


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 08, 2015, 07:38:39 AM
Way closer to three years ago. Kickstarter ended (raising 2.1M) on November 2012.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: WayAbvPar on July 08, 2015, 08:32:06 AM
But...he has a TESLA!

Do the doors open like this ^|^ or like this /|\ ? If not, then fuck him.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Shannow on July 08, 2015, 08:32:42 AM
He's going for 3 commas!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on July 08, 2015, 08:59:44 AM
If I am reading this right, he issued an ultimatum to Chris Roberts, with a deadline. Failing to meet his requests will unleash to the media an open letter with the dirty secret truth about Star Citizen, which according to Smart should interest the US Federal Trade Commission.

EDIT: He claims it's worse than 38 Studios.

If he has info relevant to the FTC I think he runs afoul of some laws by NOT disclosing it. So playing with fire to get his own name and attention. Yeah, seems like a typical move from his bag of tricks.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on July 08, 2015, 09:50:53 AM
Star Citizen is doing the Double Fine thing of consistently expanding the scope of the game such that the money they have only covers half the budget.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on July 08, 2015, 10:44:36 AM
Count how many links to his own product are in those posts of his and then decide what he's really doing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on July 08, 2015, 11:18:25 AM
Count how many links to his own product are in those posts of his and then decide what he's really doing.
He's hired himself as VP of marketing?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 08, 2015, 11:34:21 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/GDS4b7d.png)

What a weirdo.

( http://imgur.com/a/xhT0c )


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on July 08, 2015, 11:35:38 AM
See what you guys did!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on July 08, 2015, 11:36:12 AM
The other guy was weird for asking


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 08, 2015, 01:07:03 PM
Didn't you read the OP? He would have been sued if he didn't!  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on July 08, 2015, 01:26:59 PM
Welp, he found us. Batten down the hatches.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 08, 2015, 01:56:02 PM
No one remind him he's a morally bankrupt weasel who is only mad because he didn't think of this first!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on July 08, 2015, 02:07:46 PM
 :grin: :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on July 08, 2015, 02:31:13 PM
I feel icky that my posts are in those screen grabs.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Kail on July 08, 2015, 03:10:38 PM
If I am reading this right, he issued an ultimatum to Chris Roberts, with a deadline. Failing to meet his requests will unleash to the media an open letter with the dirty secret truth about Star Citizen, which according to Smart should interest the US Federal Trade Commission.

Well, shit, now I'm curious.  What kind of big scoop could he possibly be sitting on that would surprise anybody?  It's like the asteroid is going to strike the Earth and wipe out all life and we're all standing outside looking up at it when some scientist runs up and says "guys, I've got some bad news..."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 08, 2015, 03:11:35 PM
he doesn't have shit


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on July 08, 2015, 04:25:35 PM
Here's some "damage control" done by Community Manager Ben Lesnick:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/271173/some-thoughts-on-concerns

It's a long post (multiple ones in sequence, actually), aimed to reply to whatever drama cropped up in the last few weeks/days. Not as glamorous as wondering about how much coke and hookers they got and if Gardiner cheats on Roberts with other members of the Dev Team, but maybe interesting enough, I don't know  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 08, 2015, 04:32:03 PM
what a turd


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rattran on July 08, 2015, 04:40:40 PM
This game needs more Serek Dmart shenanigans just to keep the entertainment value up.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on July 08, 2015, 07:39:33 PM
This is masterful:

"We’re at a point in the process where we believe we know exactly what to do. We’ve already let you know what that is, we’re going to continue sharing the progress… and when that work pays off (or if it doesn’t) you’ll hear about it.)"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on July 08, 2015, 08:39:01 PM
Quote
‘Feature creep!’

I don’t have much to say to this, beyond that it’s not accurate.

This may be the single most feature-creeped game in history. FFS, now they're talking about adding an entire space taxi system where players can pilot taxis to ferry other players around whose ships have been destroyed. Every week someone has some new half-baked idea that they announce as a major feature.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on July 08, 2015, 08:59:17 PM
Nah, don't worry, this was all part of the original design doc.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on July 08, 2015, 10:21:47 PM
The Bible has had less feature creep than this thing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on July 08, 2015, 10:40:02 PM
I'm Serek Dmart. Nice to meet you. I'm sorry for lying for so long. *wipes tears and smile goofily*


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 08, 2015, 10:51:09 PM
I'm Serek Dmart. Nice to meet you. I'm sorry for lying for so long. *wipes tears and smile goofily*

(http://i.imgur.com/E5CdTfG.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on July 08, 2015, 11:14:54 PM
What a weirdo.

(http://i.imgur.com/HUbURAc.png)

This thread is the best.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MahrinSkel on July 08, 2015, 11:30:02 PM
Did they really raise over $80M selling vaporware virtual spaceships? I...just don't think I can process that if it is true.

--Dave


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 09, 2015, 01:26:29 AM
Of course it's true. Where have you been? This has been the whole Star Citizen thing since 2012 and why some of us have been pretty "annoyed" the whole time.

Also, it is important to say $85M.... and counting.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on July 09, 2015, 01:44:39 AM
Did they really raise over $80M selling vaporware virtual spaceships? I...just don't think I can process that if it is true.

You forgot to put this in green text, did you?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on July 09, 2015, 05:30:10 AM
In fairness, every time that little fact comes up, my brain has real trouble processing it.

It's hugely unbelievable.  I just can't fathom it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on July 09, 2015, 05:51:30 AM
I've spent a good part of the last three years interviewing for positions at various companies making free to play games in the browser or mobile space. Some of the biggest whales on free to play browser games have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars each. One company told me that their biggest spender was in for about $300k on a single title. To be fair those are all games that actually exist so the people who are paying that money are actually getting something in a game that they can play but still, $18k is small potatoes in the grand scheme of things.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: palmer_eldritch on July 09, 2015, 08:06:22 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/0vFMXSV.png)

This is just taking advantage of people with emotional issues. There's no way that any well-adjusted person would pay this much for internet spaceships even if the game actually existed. You could buy a decent new car for this.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on July 09, 2015, 08:14:58 AM
Of course it's taking advantage. He should be sued to hell and back, but probably won't because he can prove he had every intention of releasing a product, and under no circumstances did these users buy anything.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on July 09, 2015, 08:18:57 AM
You have to wonder what the meetings where they decided pricing were like. "So, what do you think, 18k for the whole lot of them?"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on July 09, 2015, 08:21:34 AM
This little bit right here is the part that really gets to me.

(http://puu.sh/iSTRU/821cba61da.png)

It's like they studied every single predatory psychological angle they could in order to extract cash from people.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on July 09, 2015, 08:37:10 AM
Not quite, because "Limited Quantities Still Available" moves things faster. The hard part is laying the groundwork to justify why you have limited amounts of a digital good. They've done that whole hog.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: WayAbvPar on July 09, 2015, 09:19:31 AM
Pure evil greed. Gordon Gecko would blush.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on July 09, 2015, 11:33:58 AM
It's like they studied every single predatory psychological angle they could in order to extract cash from people.

Gotta spend money to make money!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lantyssa on July 09, 2015, 11:55:00 AM
To be fair, idiots were asking them for these things, and when they priced them as ridiculously expensive as expected, people still bought them.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on July 09, 2015, 11:56:57 AM
Yeah, seems like a typical move from his bag of tricks.
I read that as 'bag of dicks' and I'm still chuckling to myself.

Watching the No Man's Sky footage makes me want that game to be good just to shove it to Dmart and RSI.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on July 09, 2015, 12:01:29 PM
To be fair, idiots were asking them for these things, and when they priced them as ridiculously expensive as expected, people still bought them.



"What do you mean they bought them at $18k? FUCK, we priced it too low!!!!"

PT Barnum would be proud.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MahrinSkel on July 09, 2015, 01:53:26 PM
Yeah, it's the "vaporware" part of that I am boggling on. That people spend stupid amounts of money on virtual game goods is well established. Although I shake my head that people spend hundreds of dollars on "gold" mechs in MWO, it doesn't surprise me. But this is like tulipmania levels of crazy-stupid money throwing. It would be healthier to dump it on hookers and blow, at least you'd have some great stories to tell in the homeless shelter.

--Dave


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on July 09, 2015, 02:15:18 PM
I'm sure these stories will also be fantastic.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on July 09, 2015, 03:27:42 PM
Yes, but to a much smaller crowd at the shelter.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Furiously on July 09, 2015, 03:56:59 PM
Yes, but to a much smaller crowd at the shelter.

I think you meant asylum...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: penfold on July 09, 2015, 06:04:24 PM
Yeah, it's the "vaporware" part of that I am boggling on. That people spend stupid amounts of money on virtual game goods is well established. Although I shake my head that people spend hundreds of dollars on "gold" mechs in MWO, it doesn't surprise me. But this is like tulipmania levels of crazy-stupid money throwing. It would be healthier to dump it on hookers and blow, at least you'd have some great stories to tell in the homeless shelter.

--Dave

Yeah, stupid people by stupid expensive massively overpriced luxury shit all the time. We've all seen $21,000 speaker cables, and Apple Watches.

but you get something for your stupid money, be it a soon to be obsolete gadget in gold case or about a meter of umm... silver.  Star Citizen is the first to successfully sell luxury virtual vapor. No, let me rephrase that. Star Citizen looks to be the first legitimate operation to sell luxury virtual vapor,  all the other cases I can think of are frauds.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on July 09, 2015, 07:13:21 PM
Yes, but to a much smaller crowd at the shelter.

I think you meant asylum...

No, it's the US. We don't lock our insane into crowded, inhumane cells. We raise them free-range, thanks to St. Ronnie!  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on July 09, 2015, 08:08:16 PM
See this shocking company that took vaping TOO FAR!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on July 10, 2015, 01:26:00 AM
Yeah, it's the "vaporware" part of that I am boggling on. That people spend stupid amounts of money on virtual game goods is well established. Although I shake my head that people spend hundreds of dollars on "gold" mechs in MWO, it doesn't surprise me. But this is like tulipmania levels of crazy-stupid money throwing. It would be healthier to dump it on hookers and blow, at least you'd have some great stories to tell in the homeless shelter.

--Dave

Yeah, stupid people by stupid expensive massively overpriced luxury shit all the time. We've all seen $21,000 speaker cables, and Apple Watches.

but you get something for your stupid money, be it a soon to be obsolete gadget in gold case or about a meter of umm... silver.  Star Citizen is the first to successfully sell luxury virtual vapor. No, let me rephrase that. Star Citizen looks to be the first legitimate operation to sell luxury virtual vapor,  all the other cases I can think of are frauds.



Not the first (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropia_Universe). Also Second Life.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Fabricated on July 11, 2015, 12:35:38 PM
lol, Smart showed up in the Star Citizen thread on SA for like 5 seconds.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on July 11, 2015, 12:43:39 PM
lol, Smart showed up in the Star Citizen thread on SA for like 5 seconds.

I like that someone paid for him to get a custom avatar and title pretty much immediately.

(http://i.imgur.com/Q4ZVDrU.png)

The 'click here to see my impotent legal threats' link goes here (http://imgur.com/a/bHWiT) btw.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 11, 2015, 01:02:54 PM
Quote
"Then Google Alerts happened, and changed everything. I set it up to scan for my name, my products etc. And each day when I get a report, I’d filter the less interesting ones, pick the good (usually in forums where I visited - and not yet banned) ones, head over there, pour virtual gasoline everywhere, torch the place with confounding rhetoric - then leave. It was like a virtual drive-by flaming. And usually, I never even go back to the topic."

Source: Serek Dmart, on his blog yesterday. (http://dereksmart3000ad.tumblr.com/post/123590528869/the-gaming-urban-legend)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on July 11, 2015, 04:19:12 PM
The 'click here to see my impotent legal threats' link goes here (http://imgur.com/a/bHWiT) btw.

Sweet merciful Christ that man is a looney tune.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Shannow on July 11, 2015, 04:41:08 PM
I haven't given a red cent to this game and I'm being entertained.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 11, 2015, 08:06:57 PM
His net worth exceeds everything Star Citizen has made guys. Guys? Guys? Is anyone even listening?

Shame money can't buy him some class.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 11, 2015, 08:08:39 PM
As a human being, he's always been a source of amusement for me because we actually stand on the same side of the fence for a lot of these things, except he is what I would be if I were full-blown retarded pants on head stupid.

He's like the opposite end of the spectrum from Molyneux or Koster.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on July 12, 2015, 04:43:09 AM
New weekly update about the FPS module (includes a brief video showing VFX and a poll):

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14829-Star-Marine-Status-Update


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on July 12, 2015, 04:56:05 AM
So...fps where the guns aren't done yet? Yeah, it's never coming out either.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on July 12, 2015, 08:35:08 AM
I like how the most pressing issue on the table is what the gun sights should look like.

When are they adding the Deck Chair Rearrangement Module?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on July 12, 2015, 08:57:24 AM
We are sorry to announce another delay as we needed to improve the aglets on the boots of some of the Star Marines. We didn't feel the aglets were properly modeled and will need at least another six months of playtesting in all stages of Star Marine animation.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on July 12, 2015, 09:59:55 AM
Wait, so they are agonizing over gun sights and have blockers around things like recoil tweaking taking too much art time, yet they went ahead nad implemented environment destruction.

Good to see they have their priorities straight.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on July 12, 2015, 10:38:25 AM
Attention: Star Marine has been delayed even more indefinitely because we have come to the conclusion that the boot laces need improving and don't accurately reflect our vision for the game.  Further testing of said bootlaces should take 9-12 months.  Thank you for your patience.  In the meantime, please buy this internet spaceship for $36k.  Why is it $36k?  Well, because we were shocked people bought them at $18k so we figured we might have priced them too low and are confident some suckers, errr, backers will buy it for double the price of the last "deal".  Hurry now!  Limit time offer!  Limited supply, too, because there's only so many 1s and 0s we have left in stock.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on July 12, 2015, 10:43:09 AM
Attention: Star Marine has been delayed even more indefinitely because we have come to the conclusion that the boot laces need improving and don't accurately reflect our vision for the game.  Further testing of said bootlaces should take 9-12 months.  Thank you for your patience.  In the meantime, please buy this internet spaceship for $36k.  Why is it $36k?  Well, because we were shocked people bought them at $18k so we figured we might have priced them too low and are confident some suckers, errr, backers will buy it for double the price of the last "deal".  Hurry now!  Limit time offer!  Limited supply, too, because there's only so many 1s and 0s we have left in stock.

You forgot that they needed to create a poll to see what the community thought of the boot laces before proceeding  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Xuri on July 12, 2015, 11:18:10 AM
Wait, so they are agonizing over gun sights and have blockers around things like recoil tweaking taking too much art time, yet they went ahead nad implemented environment destruction.

Good to see they have their priorities straight.
This sounds a bit like when people complain about an MMO developer fixing clipping issues with armors while there are still PvP bugs in code, tbh. Work done on one of these does not block work on the other. :P


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lantyssa on July 12, 2015, 12:49:35 PM
You want reason in this thread?  It's all doom, hyperbole, and laughs.

At this point all you can do is wait and watch while trying not to step in front of the hate train.  (Monorail-red panda coming through!  Watch for headbutts.  choo choo!)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on July 12, 2015, 01:23:51 PM
We are the Merkel to Star Citizen's Greece.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on July 12, 2015, 03:15:01 PM
You want reason in this thread?  It's all doom, hyperbole, and laughs.

At this point all you can do is wait and watch while trying not to step in front of the hate train.  (Monorail-red panda coming through!  Watch for headbutts.  choo choo!)

I...

I just can't see defending anything that is selling $18,000 virtual spaceships especially if the game in question isn't live already and has at least some prospect of never being live.

There's a reason Serek Dmart weighed into all this--Star Citizen is making almost the same promises he made for his Battlecruiser dingus, only that really was just him and some guys, with nowhere near the resources. We all thought it was funny then because of the hubris and self-deception involved, but at least he wasn't combining his folly with ruining people's lives.

It might be that this will eventually be a real thing, and that it will even be fun. It will never, can never, live up to the promises being made for the money being taken. Cheering for Star Citizen is like cheering for someone who cheats an old widow out of her savings by promising to take her to see Paris.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on July 12, 2015, 06:56:26 PM
There's a reason Serek Dmart weighed into all this--Star Citizen is making almost the same promises he made for his Battlecruiser dingus, only that really was just him and some guys, with nowhere near the resources. We all thought it was funny then because of the hubris and self-deception involved, but at least he wasn't combining his folly with ruining people's lives.

Will no one think of those poor poor soda machines?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lantyssa on July 12, 2015, 09:59:06 PM
I'm not cheering it on.  I mean, I do want it to produce a good game because I like playing good games, but I have no illusions about the risks and some of the bizarre stuff that's come out of all this.

There's just so much cluess fanboi versus gloomy cynic that it's hard to take anyone seriously.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on July 13, 2015, 02:17:27 AM
But it's OK. Those are all grown ups and if they are too stupid or have mental issues then fuck them. Right?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on July 13, 2015, 03:07:05 AM
There's a reason Serek Dmart weighed into all this--Star Citizen is making almost the same promises he made for his Battlecruiser dingus, only that really was just him and some guys, with nowhere near the resources. We all thought it was funny then because of the hubris and self-deception involved, but at least he wasn't combining his folly with ruining people's lives.

Will no one think of those poor poor soda machines?

Apparently that never happened.  Because he said so.   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Furiously on July 13, 2015, 10:20:26 AM
I just read five pages of Mr. Smart's posts on SA, and then he posted their outdated Database of ships as his DB of people wanting refunds.

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/620534453115359232 (https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/620534453115359232)



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mithas on July 13, 2015, 10:55:10 AM
What is his angle here? Why does he care so much? I don't want him to stop though.  :popcorn:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on July 13, 2015, 11:01:33 AM
I assume he is bitter about how much money and attention Chris Roberts is getting.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 13, 2015, 11:03:00 AM
That's literally all it is. Chris is making all the promises Derek would have made, except Chris is getting paid on them while Derek yells at the sky in Arizona because he didn't invent meth or something.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hutch on July 13, 2015, 11:38:48 AM
Roberts is getting away with it because of Wing Commander.

Fmart is associated with BattleCruiser.

This is why one is getting millions in crowdfunding, and one is on the outside, peering in, tapping on the windowpane.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on July 13, 2015, 11:49:57 AM
Well, sure, but you try explaining the difference to Doctor Nutbag.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 13, 2015, 11:56:19 AM
He didn't go to 8 years of You'll Still Be an Unemployable Piece of Shit University to not be called Doctor Nutbag.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on July 13, 2015, 11:58:55 AM
The hilarious part of it is that Dmart is getting THIS close to saying, "Nobody should give those guys money because it's stupid to have this kind of hubristic, crazy ambitions, stupid to allow feature creep, stupid to try and put together three or four fundamentally different kinds & scales of gaming experience, stupid to prey on the innocent desire of some gamers to have a game that does everything". But if he says it like that, he is more or less confessing to everything bad people ever said about Battlecruiser and its tortured development history. So he's trying to find a way to say that without having to really SAY it.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 13, 2015, 12:09:11 PM
Bullshit. He is not that self-aware.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Furiously on July 13, 2015, 01:47:05 PM
Aspergers vs schadenfreude?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 13, 2015, 02:22:15 PM
Aspergers vs schadenfreude?
I mean, that should probably be the name of his math-centric parody Eagles cover band.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Furiously on July 13, 2015, 04:39:14 PM
This is magical....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEuY6-UM8VI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEuY6-UM8VI)

Even coke machines know I'm right in the end.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lantyssa on July 13, 2015, 05:05:46 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEuY6-UM8VI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEuY6-UM8VI)
:thumbs_up:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on July 13, 2015, 05:31:21 PM
This is magical....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEuY6-UM8VI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEuY6-UM8VI)

Even coke machines know I'm right in the end.
It is rare that I get a laugh as good as I got from that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tannhauser on July 13, 2015, 05:41:38 PM
This is magical....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEuY6-UM8VI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEuY6-UM8VI)

Even coke machines know I'm right in the end.


OH wow, that's quality snark!  So what's the story with the coke machine?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on July 13, 2015, 05:49:38 PM
Notes from the Comic-Con panel:

http://imperialnews.network/2015/07/sdcc-star-citizen-panel-notes/

(here are some taken from the link)

Quote
– Multicrew demonstration at GamesCom along with Large World – show a mindboggling big map in which it would take you about 2 hours just to fly between these two moons in the map at normal speed.  All one map and multiple multicrew ships and show a whole bunch of stuff at Gamescom.

Squadron 42 is the gateway or entry point into the universe.  GamesCom and CitizenCon (October 10th) will have some announcements and discussion about Squadron 42.

– Squadron 42 is not tacked on, it is a full game in its own right.  Squadron 42 performance capture shoot was 4 months.  Script is 670 pages not included rewrites.  Bigger than any Wing Commander game.  Shot for 66 days, much longer than any movie that Chris shot.  Squadron 42 is, by itself, equivalent to any big AAA $60 game.

-  PU Alpha will probably start with one system with multiple landing locations (Stanton) and then expand to 5 systems (Nyx, Terra, Stanton, Helios, Magnus).

Wing Commander based on WWII.  Star Citizen based on the decline and fall of Rome.

– Vanduul – they’re analogous to the Visigoths – pushing in from the western side of the UEE.

– Banu are on the southern side of the UEE, not antagonistic.  Merchants and traders.  Analogous to North Africa and Middle East in Roman times.

– Xi’An are on the eastern side of the UEE.  They are analogous to the Persian Empire or the Chinese.  Very old, been around for 10,000 years.  Cold standoff between the Xi’An and UEE.  Trade and do business together but don’t trust each other.  Similar to China and the US present day.

– Terra: Up and coming rising socioeconomic power. If Earth is Rome then Terra is Constantinople.

– Earth is the old guard.  Terra is viewed as new and progressive.

– Terra and Earth have some tensions.  These tensions will play out over the course of the PU.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on July 13, 2015, 06:27:06 PM
They're calling it PU?

Wow, that stinks.

 :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on July 13, 2015, 06:37:56 PM
This is magical....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEuY6-UM8VI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEuY6-UM8VI)

Even coke machines know I'm right in the end.


OH wow, that's quality snark!  So what's the story with the coke machine?

As the legend goes, he got super pissed for some reason or other and took out his frustrations by unmercifully beating up a defenseless Coke vending machine.  True story...or not.  Who cares?  It's Serek Dmart.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on July 13, 2015, 07:25:41 PM
This is magical....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEuY6-UM8VI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEuY6-UM8VI)

Even coke machines know I'm right in the end.


Greatest song line ever.  :rofl:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: angry.bob on July 13, 2015, 07:47:07 PM
– Terra: Up and coming rising socioeconomic power. If Earth is Rome then Terra is Constantinople.

– Earth is the old guard.  Terra is viewed as new and progressive.

– Terra and Earth have some tensions.  These tensions will play out over the course of the PU.

Terra
Earth
Not being the same thing
And having "tension" with each other.
Istanbul having tensions with Constantinople

Everything about anything involving story or background will be terrible, wanky shit. It will be shit quality writing and creativity past needing to cringe. Reading one paragraph of anything involving this shit will make you wish that they had paid some hack like RA Salvatore millions to right something else.

Most science fiction is shit. Gaming science fiction is even worse. This though... this is going to be two girls / one cup levels of shit.




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on July 13, 2015, 08:48:25 PM
Notes from the Comic-Con panel:

http://imperialnews.network/2015/07/sdcc-star-citizen-panel-notes/

(here are some taken from the link)

Quote
– Banu are on the southern side of the UEE, not antagonistic.  Merchants and traders.  Analogous to North Africa and Middle East in Roman times.
Non antagonistic "equivalent of North Africa in Roman times"? That makes zero sense, or I guess someone haven't heard of the Punic Wars?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Abagadro on July 13, 2015, 10:45:10 PM
Hold onto your butts people, part 2 drops tomorrow now that it has 'cleared legal'.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Furiously on July 13, 2015, 11:57:22 PM
http://www.dereksmart.org/2015/07/interstellar-discourse/ (http://www.dereksmart.org/2015/07/interstellar-discourse/)

A little light reading...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Abagadro on July 14, 2015, 12:26:01 AM
Quote
Nobody is going to march a doctor with a fake degree, into court, get him under deposition to testify for their side.

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

This while burnishing his credibility as an expert.  

He's right about all the substance but is such a colossal, un-self aware jackass that it's tough to take seriously.

EDIT: Ha, CIG just sending him a refund is a classic lawyer move to undercut standing to file anything.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on July 14, 2015, 04:33:41 AM
Good grief. If the Dark one would just quit shoving his perfectly formed ass into your face with his writing I'd pretty much agree with everything he wrote and then some.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on July 14, 2015, 04:48:09 AM
He uses every form of the first person pronoun more often than any writer I've ever read.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on July 14, 2015, 05:25:32 AM
This douchebag reminds me of those endless and rambling posts Richard Hoagland and his associates used to post on enterprisemission.com . Fun times.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 14, 2015, 06:33:52 AM
What is his angle here? Why does he care so much? I don't want him to stop though.  :popcorn:

Here's the answer to that from his (Serek Dmart) latest accusation letter.

Quote
My stake in this, is very simple, and to the point. I wanted to see an accessible, and visually spectacular game, like this, made. Going into four years now, this has not happened. And a good portion of the 900K people who have put money toward that dream, don’t seem to have a voice.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on July 14, 2015, 06:47:48 AM
I liked this quote:

Quote
Though there is nothing illegal about hiring people, even from the competition, you still have to consider the moral implications of hiring away the staff from partners who have been helping you make your dream a reality. If that isn’t the ultimate back stab, I don’t know what is.

Business is about morals!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on July 14, 2015, 06:53:00 AM
(http://puu.sh/iYynx/5259f7cb7f.png)

Shit just got serious  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 14, 2015, 07:12:28 AM
(http://puu.sh/iYynx/5259f7cb7f.png)

Shit just got serious  :grin:


(https://33.media.tumblr.com/3dc4c0003716c988e5e97333131ba504/tumblr_mt78qjHsL11s5slm4o1_500.gif)

Seriously, this reminds me of a Key and Peele skit. Shit is THAT serious.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on July 14, 2015, 07:22:20 AM
I love everything about this.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tazelbain on July 14, 2015, 07:27:44 AM
Do have any first hand accounts for people's life being ruined by spending too much money on vapor ships yet?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on July 14, 2015, 07:38:36 AM
Yup, there was on in this very thread.  I don't feel like going and finding it now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on July 14, 2015, 07:40:14 AM
Quote
There is a certain excitement and exhilaration in being, and acting yourself, rather than putting on airs for the public. It’s called freedom. It’s amazing.

Serek Dmart, just like the founding fathers. Stop putting on airs for your oppressors and toss that Virtual Tea off your spaceship!

Quote
Most who don’t understand how the industry works, the technical challenges etc, were quick to discount this as just another Serek Dmart rant, or hyperbole. Regardless, even those who doubted the statements, were forced to stop and think.

Serek Dmart, points so salient that they hold the minds of doubters at gunpoint.

Quote
Most of the noise about this impending train wreck, has mostly come from smaller media, who, even though we all know each other, have more at stake in terms of being honest, and forthcoming, than those who just want to exist in the status quo and hope it blows over. However, once my article hit, and set practically every single gaming community ablaze about the state and fate of Star Citizen, it opened dialog in all corners of the industry.

Serek Dmart, setting all corners of the incestuous cesspool that is gaming journalism ablaze with his dialog.

All hail the Smart. All hail dear leader of Star Citizen deniers.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on July 14, 2015, 08:09:18 AM
I think it would be "whom" instead of "who" in that last quote.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on July 14, 2015, 08:24:16 AM
I found the story. Its actually very sad, but this is a reminder that this is not a victimless crime.

This entire thing is such a cynical commentary on humanity.  Jesus fucking Christ.  I hope he gets sued to hell and back by some dumb asshole's wife after said asshole spent their kids college money on fake spaceships.  

I mentioned a guy earlier in this thread, whom I have worked with extensively over the last decade. I still talk to him and his wife, since they were both friends. She has divorced him, and has full custody of his kids. Their youngest kid and mine play together frequently.

I bought him a beer the other day during our usual get together with a group of other guys. He confessed to now being well over the 20 thousand dollar mark on money spent on star citizen. He is convinced that it is going to be so amazing that he thinks he literally will not have to play any other games for the rest of his life.

I know this story is unbelievable, you don't have to trust me. However, I swear by its truth. The guy literally evangelizes the game to everybody he talks to. He reminds me of those people who get completely sucked into a religious group, his entire life revolves around star citizen right now.


Quote
Quote
Quote from: Falconeer on February 26, 2015, 07:32:10 PM
I do believe you, but how did he spend 20k? Isn't the "Completist" box only 18600$? Did he buy the whole thing and then some stuff doube, "just in case"?
He has multiple accounts. He has multiples of all of the super limited stuff. He believes there is going to be a market for those ships he has collected in the future.

About the whole divorce being related to star citizen purchases, I can say for sure that was the reason his wife left him, since I am friends with her too.  He basically used school loan money on star citizen and dumped what little remaining retirement savings they had into star citizen. She tried to have an intervention for him using myself and a few of his other friends and family. He went off the deep end and accused us of not understanding how important his investment was. By this time she had already moved into her own place, and a few days after the failed intervention, she served him papers. My wife and I still have her over frequently because our kids play together. I only see him on rare occasions when my small group of friends gets together for beers. However, over time he shows up less and less.

Edit: Since my wife is in the loop on star citizen she just about freaked out when I told her I spent like 45 bucks on it while it was still in kickstarter. I had to show her that was all I have spent before she would calm down.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lantyssa on July 14, 2015, 09:38:55 AM
That's not a crime though, it's a gambling problem.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Fabricated on July 14, 2015, 10:20:47 AM
On SA, they've moved all Star Citizen discussion to a new forum.

Which Smart is now the moderator of.

Ahahahahah


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: angry.bob on July 14, 2015, 10:30:37 AM
Oh lord, oh lord. I can't even imagine where this could go.

Guys... we have to start a Kickstarter for The Doctor. Say it's to set up an organization to fund him digging into Roberts' dark closets and whatnot. Or to make an even better version of Star Citizen. He can use the money to hire John Romero to do design work. And Stevie Case to be Senior President of Marketing. No VP title for her, nope.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 14, 2015, 10:46:59 AM
Is it possible RSI or whatever the fuck they're called hired Dmart to market for them?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Montague on July 14, 2015, 11:00:45 AM
Ok having read through all that bullshit could a non-self important blowhard with some industry cred write something similar without the eyebleeding SirBrucing and Walken commas?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on July 14, 2015, 11:12:50 AM
On SA, they've moved all Star Citizen discussion to a new forum.

Which Smart is now the moderator of.

Ahahahahah

Oh God... the humanity!  :why_so_serious:

This thread has now delivered.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on July 14, 2015, 11:49:17 AM
Post made by Community Manager Ben Lesnick in relation to the "unsolicited" refund that Mr. Smart received:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/5304637/#Comment_5304637

Quote
Hey guys!

I believe I can clarify this. We refunded Mr. Smart’s package because he was using Star Citizen as a platform to gain attention as part of a campaign to promote his ‘Line of Defense’ space game. Our ToS (or in this case, the Kickstarter ToS) allows us to refund troubled users who we would rather not have interacting with the community. The process lets us entirely disable their accounts, preventing them from playing the finished game. Think of it as the video game equivalent of a ‘we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone’ sign in a restaurant. We’ve used this ability a limited number of times in the past, always with the aim of improving the community (until today, the most famous example being our old friend jcrg99/Manzes/PonyMillar/he of many other alts.)

I do now want to stress that that is not to say you can get your money back by simply being as obnoxious as possible; we’re also able to ban accounts from the forums without requiring a refund. But sometimes we take a look at a user and decide that they’re so toxic or their intentions are so sinister that we simply don’t want them associated with Star Citizen.

As for refund requests working the other way: per the ToS, we’re not required to offer them. We do try and work with backers who are facing hardships, but the hard truth is that the money is by necessity being spent to develop a game rather than sitting unused somewhere (that being the significant difference with Steam; those refunds are taken out of their games’ profits rather than their development budgets.)

Now, beside all the other stuff Pennilenko's (was him?) friend got into (divorce, etc.) I think he could attempt asking for a refund, even if that means telling all about his troubles to customer service (but, granted, that's quite a high sum to refund). Even before this whole ridiculous mess started, I frequently read on the forums about ppl getting a refund on a personal basis.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 14, 2015, 12:04:36 PM
Now you know what's funny? Have you checked Line of Defense on Steam? It's so bad I can't believe it's serious (I know it is). 21% positive reviews could be the lowest score I've ever seen. As soon as people start googling it after Lesnick very cleverly dropped the name in that Star Citizen public statement everyone will understand that Smart is a joke, even those who didn't know him. Interesting to see how the best way to undermine Smart and deflate his arguments is to do free advertising for his game!

http://store.steampowered.com/app/266620/


(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3584773/Smart%20Star%20Citizen%20lawsuit%202.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3584773/Smart%20Star%20Citizen%20lawsuit.jpg)

 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on July 14, 2015, 12:15:26 PM
 :facepalm: :facepalm:

(http://www.ramascreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Better-Call-Saul-e1378943426595.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Furiously on July 14, 2015, 12:17:33 PM
Did they just say they don't want black people playing their game?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on July 14, 2015, 12:23:29 PM
This is turning out even better than I could have imagined


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on July 14, 2015, 12:25:18 PM
Did they just say they don't want black people playing their game?

hahahhaha , brilliant  :awesome_for_real:

Here's another interesting reply from the topic posted above, made by Eric Peterson (nickname "WingMan"), long time business partner of Chris Roberts since the Origin days, who recently left CIG to run his own studio (Descendent Studios; they ran a successful KS campaign to fund a "spiritual successor" to the "Descent" series):

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/5304823/#Comment_5304823

Quote
Look, I am no longer at CIG, but I recall when Chris and I were working at Origin, Serek Dmart sent several negative emails accusing us of stealing his ideas etc, the guy is just not worth the time to read.

He is just trying to get attention - something none of us should ever give him.

IMHO, I think CIG did the right thing here, that guy is just not worth the trouble.

WM


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on July 14, 2015, 12:25:45 PM
Finally, a company is truly at steak.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 14, 2015, 12:26:07 PM
Ugh. Derek is not the person we want or need to attack Chris Roberts and his gang of shitheads.

This is just going to end miserably and with not even a whimper.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lantyssa on July 14, 2015, 12:27:39 PM
Hahahahaha.

It's a brilliant strategy the good doctor has come up with though.  If you can't get a massive kickstarter going, sue someone who did!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on July 14, 2015, 12:39:23 PM
Prediction: Roberts initiates a program to let people donate to his legal fund.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on July 14, 2015, 12:40:09 PM
And donators get in-game items.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on July 14, 2015, 12:44:31 PM
And donators get in-game items.


Legal Beagles as pets.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on July 14, 2015, 12:45:29 PM
Ugh. Derek is not the person we want or need to attack Chris Roberts and his gang of shitheads.

This is just going to end miserably and with not even a whimper.

yep. After reading the golden letters from his nostrils I have to say this will may in fact add 6 months to the time before Star citizen collapses.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: penfold on July 14, 2015, 02:46:09 PM
Been following Derek for a while now on Twitter. What I expected isnt what I got. A hint of Derek yes, but reasonable, fairly chilled, likeable and up for some banter, but in the last few days he's started a crusade against RSI and its been classic Derek all the way, right down to classic Derek classic lawsuit. Top stuff.

How in the fuck RSI dude hadn't heard of Derek and said not nice things on a public forum I dont know.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 14, 2015, 02:53:19 PM
They really shouldn't have given him a refund. That admits a lot of fault, regardless of what they say on the PR front. That said, Derek is gonna completely fuck this shit up because that's his entire life up to this point. Fucking shit up (and not in the incredible hulk way).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on July 14, 2015, 03:29:34 PM
Lawsuits against vaporware, heh.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on July 14, 2015, 03:31:18 PM
Can both sides lose a lawsuit? I'm having trouble deciding who is the lesser of two evils in this case.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on July 14, 2015, 04:37:55 PM
Can both sides lose a lawsuit? I'm having trouble deciding who is the lesser of two evils in this case.

It's fairly simple in this case. Chris Roberts is ruining people's lives. DSmart is never going to stop being stupid regardless of outcome.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on July 14, 2015, 04:41:27 PM
Yeah but if he wins I'm not sure the universe would be able to contain the size of his ego.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on July 14, 2015, 04:46:27 PM
Can both sides lose a lawsuit?


We can only hope!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 14, 2015, 05:05:28 PM
Yeah but if he wins I'm not sure the universe would be able to contain the size of his ego.

Doesn't matter, everyone will still hate him.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Nija on July 14, 2015, 08:21:32 PM
I've been struggling the past week or so to answer this:

You know the phrase, "the lesser of two evils", right? Which one is it in this case?!

Right now I believe I'm firmly in the DSmart camp.  Which, frankly, scares the shit out of me.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 14, 2015, 08:44:36 PM
I can't respond to that without Godwinning the thread, so we'll just go with even the worst people can find something to do/say which everyone can agree with.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rasix on July 14, 2015, 09:33:18 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/KoyE8yU.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 15, 2015, 12:54:25 AM
I want the predator to win. Lesser of two evils. Doesn't breed. Kills for literal sport.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 15, 2015, 12:54:46 AM
I guess that makes Smart the Predator, cuz he ain't breeding.

Huh.

This just got a level deeper than I expected.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 15, 2015, 01:19:41 AM
Quote from: Ben Lesnick, Star Citizen Community Manager
As for refund requests working the other way: per the ToS, we’re not required to offer them. We do try and work with backers who are facing hardships, but the hard truth is that the money is by necessity being spent to develop a game


So, the interesting angle here is that Ben Lesnick said in that letter that refunds are not available (save for arbitrary special cases) because they have already spent the money.

Now, granted, if you dumped 10k+ in this game you are either an idiot or a rich idiot, but at this point how many will start thinking: "you know what? I could use 10k if they give it back to me. There are so many things I could do with 10k right now!"

For the rich & idiot reasons I mentioned above I don't think this will happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if all of a sudden some started to feel like jumping ship, especially considering that the consequence of that would be in many cases a new car, a new down payment for an apartment, a nice holiday, or paying off a debt that has been haunting them for a while.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 15, 2015, 02:35:43 AM
I'm of split feelings on this, and this is what it looks like:

1. If you spent $10k on this shit, fuck you, you don't deserve your money.
2. If you spent, let's say - $300 (based on the most expensive CE/LE's I've seen before) - and are just sick and tired of waiting on the game... then you just deserve the refund, because you're a regular if a little fanatical, consumer.

That said, I'm really hoping this whole company goes into a blackbox, takes the money, shuts literally everything down, and disappears like it never happened. What an amazing heist.

They won't do that though, because they're stupid and likely amazingly pussified.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on July 15, 2015, 02:37:13 AM
As someone who at one point paid a shitton of money for a lifetime subscription to Hellgate: London shouldn't you be more empathetic to others in similar situations?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on July 15, 2015, 02:40:47 AM
Quote from: Ben Lesnick, Star Citizen Community Manager
As for refund requests working the other way: per the ToS, we’re not required to offer them. We do try and work with backers who are facing hardships, but the hard truth is that the money is by necessity being spent to develop a game

So, the interesting angle here is that Ben Lesnick said in that letter that refunds are not available (save for arbitrary special cases) because they have already spent the money.

This is not how this works and Mr. Lesnick knows that. So the fact that he claims the opposite should make anyone wary. "You can't ask for refunds because we've already spent your money" (on hookers and blow probably) is not something you'd say if you still believe that you'll eventually delier a finished product.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 15, 2015, 02:45:19 AM
Quote from: Ben Lesnick, Star Citizen Community Manager
As for refund requests working the other way: per the ToS, we’re not required to offer them. We do try and work with backers who are facing hardships, but the hard truth is that the money is by necessity being spent to develop a game

So, the interesting angle here is that Ben Lesnick said in that letter that refunds are not available (save for arbitrary special cases) because they have already spent the money.

This is not how this works and Mr. Lesnick knows that. So the fact that he claims the opposite should make anyone wary. "You can't ask for refunds because we've already spent your money" (on hookers and blow probably) is not something you'd say if you still believe that you'll eventually delier a finished product.

Exactly. That's why I think that line is a DISASTER from a PR and also a legal standpoint. I am surprised not enough people have jumped for his neck yet after reading that ridiculous line.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on July 15, 2015, 04:19:44 AM
I find it amazing that someone went "You know how to fix out Serek Dmart problem?  Let's give him his money back!  He's toxic and will surely go away if he just gets a refund.  And then let's publicly blog about how we are giving him and only him a refund because that will help matters".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on July 15, 2015, 04:46:45 AM
Geez, guys, Abagadro already told you why they're giving the refund--it undercuts Serek's legal standing to bring any kind of suit. They're not doing it as a general p.r. move to show that they have a benevolent policy towards dissatisfied customers.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on July 15, 2015, 04:55:17 AM
That said, I'm really hoping this whole company goes into a blackbox, takes the money, shuts literally everything down, and disappears like it never happened. What an amazing heist.

They won't do that though, because they're stupid and likely amazingly pussified.

You are correct, of course, but I believe they won't shut it down because most people do not turn off the money hose until it is too late.

Also +2 for making a post that reads like something I'd write (Predator comparison).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on July 15, 2015, 05:05:55 AM
I think this is a basic problem with most con games--when a con artist hits a really rich source, they have a hard time getting out while the getting's good. There's always a few smart people who see it coming and run for it before they're left having their pictures taken in a line-up or being named in a lawsuit, but I think that maybe has happened already with Star Citizen, judging from these recent departures.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on July 15, 2015, 05:07:10 AM
I think Chris Roberts should be buried under a pile of lawsuits until he eventually perishes, and then the funeral home sells him a virtual coffin for $50,000 before they chuck him unceremoniously into the ocean.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on July 15, 2015, 05:23:26 AM
SC can't disappear because Roberts has a name and there's hundreds of employees with a paper trail. It'll go on until it can't.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on July 15, 2015, 05:40:08 AM
Or until someone named Christo Roberto applies for citizenship in Costa Rica.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on July 15, 2015, 05:53:05 AM
The refunds thing is interesting.  It strikes me that they are abandoning the notion that these are donations altogether if they are refunding based on things not being delivered by now, even if they are doing it arbitrarily.  That actually does seem to open them up them up to legal trouble.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Der Helm on July 15, 2015, 06:44:56 AM
Can it even be a donation if they sell you virtual stuff for thousands of dollars ? Does it matter ? I also do not understand how they can claim a "no refunds" policy. I thought that stuff was settled ages ago.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on July 15, 2015, 07:03:49 AM
That sort of stuff happens all the time.  Some not-for-profit says, donate $25 to us and get this free travel mug (or whatever). They'll have some merchandise someone else donated (the travel mugs), and now they'll sweeten the pot for your monetary donation by offering it to you if you donate.  That's sort of how I view these kickstarter pledge level things.

Of course, the big, glaring difference is that this a very much FOR-profit situation.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hutch on July 15, 2015, 07:10:36 AM
I guess that makes Smart the Predator, cuz he ain't breeding.

Huh.

This just got a level deeper than I expected.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1217291/Misc/inception.png)

edited for quote


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on July 15, 2015, 07:21:19 AM
That sort of stuff happens all the time.  Some not-for-profit says, donate $25 to us and get this free travel mug (or whatever). They'll have some merchandise someone else donated (the travel mugs), and now they'll sweeten the pot for your monetary donation by offering it to you if you donate.  That's sort of how I view these kickstarter pledge level things.

Of course, the big, glaring difference is that this a very much FOR-profit situation.

Well the big question for me is if what they are doing falls under the FTC rules of deceptive advertising. If you can prove they had no reasonable intent of ever producing the items as they advertised them, then you'd win.

As for refunds, if they are in California, they have a 30 day return policy at the state level.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on July 15, 2015, 07:31:37 AM
It's frankly kind of odd that we have this new kind of emerging economy based around "supporting" via donation for profit companies in the first place. The idea of kickstarter/indie-go-go/patreon, etc makes sense for small projects, not for profits and so forth.  But when it gets bigger, I don't like the model much.

When it comes to Star Citizen I totally agree that they are effectively just selling things.  But wrapping it in this "donate" language complicates things.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on July 15, 2015, 07:42:39 AM
The model is horrible, regardless of size. It's a scammers paradise with almost no real legal recourse until it gets so bloated the lawyers see $$$


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on July 15, 2015, 07:46:11 AM
The model is horrible, regardless of size. It's a scammers paradise with almost no real legal recourse until it gets so bloated the lawyers see $$$
yeah, eventually the FTC is going to have to weigh in to say exactly what a backer is. Are they a customer and therefore protected by trading laws? Are they investors and therefore entitled to equity in the product? Are they simply making a charitable donation?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on July 15, 2015, 08:01:46 AM
Even if the group was non-profit, which they aren't, even non-profits are subject to refunds is the conditions of the gifts aren't met. A recent example was Garth Brooks suing and winning a case where a non-profit hospital didn't live up to the conditions of the gift (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/garth-brooks-awarded-1-million-in-hospital-lawsuit/)

If you can make the case that you fully expected certain conditions in return for your donation, and the advertising led you to reasonably believe your gift would include those conditions, then I think the case is a slam-dunk.

Here's the legal bits from the EULA:

Quote
For the avoidance of doubt, in consideration of RSI’s good faith efforts to develop, produce, and deliver the Game with the funds raised, you agree that any Pledge amounts applied against the Pledge Item Cost and the Game Cost shall be non-refundable regardless of whether or not RSI is able to complete and deliver the Game and/or the pledge items. In the unlikely event that RSI is not able to deliver the Game and/or the pledge items, RSI agrees to post an audited cost accounting on the Website to fully explain the use of the amounts paid for Pledge Item Cost and the Game Cost.  In consideration of the promises by RSI hereunder, you agree that you shall irrevocably waive any claim for refund of any Pledge that has been used for the Game Cost and Pledge Item Cost in accordance with the above.

My question is how clear is that in the ads? I'm thinking REALLY REALLY NOT. Oh and I would love to see them follow through on the audited cost accounting of this clusterfuck.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on July 15, 2015, 08:18:04 AM
Star Citizen didn't ruin anyone's lives, anymore than heroin or gambling. Personal responsibility, some people just don't have it and it's a matter of time.

I don't even feel bad for the folks who bid the low levels on KS for the plain old game, KS itself is a gamble.

I applaud what Roberts is doing, fleecing gullible people is the American Way. Ironically, suing them to add to his own bank account as Dmart is doing, also the American Way. So it's win/win, really (except for the suckers who got fleeced, but again...American Way, the system doesn't work without suckers).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 15, 2015, 09:18:42 AM
As someone who at one point paid a shitton of money for a lifetime subscription to Hellgate: London shouldn't you be more empathetic to others in similar situations?
No, because they under-delivered and I treated them like shit til I got a refund. But at least they delivered something for me to even be upset with.

Also, I said $300 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on July 15, 2015, 09:44:27 AM
Can both sides lose a lawsuit? I'm having trouble deciding who is the lesser of two evils in this case.


I think it's pretty clear. One side is robbing people blind and the other is a narcissistic ranting fuckstick who provides endless amounts of rage-tainment for the masses. I know who I'm rooting for!  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 15, 2015, 09:57:43 AM
Smart isn't even entertaining. He just needed to be coddled by his mother less. If anything, he's depressing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on July 15, 2015, 01:25:27 PM
That sort of stuff happens all the time.  Some not-for-profit says, donate $25 to us and get this free travel mug (or whatever). They'll have some merchandise someone else donated (the travel mugs), and now they'll sweeten the pot for your monetary donation by offering it to you if you donate.  That's sort of how I view these kickstarter pledge level things.

Of course, the big, glaring difference is that this a very much FOR-profit situation.

The other glaring difference is that they don't actually have the travel mug ready and offer only the faintest indication on when you might be getting it (unless you donated during the Kickstarter in which case they've already gone past the date they listed).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on July 15, 2015, 02:15:01 PM
Smart has the sort of impulse control and obsessiveness and mood regulation issues that usually keep anyone from getting to do shit like he did at one point because it inevitably torpedoes your personal and business relations quickly. But usually way earlier in a cycle. So he's sort of an outlier in the sense that he managed to do anything he actually did while having so many fundamental personality problems. I guess that's kind of a compliment?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 16, 2015, 12:49:02 AM
This just in  :awesome_for_real:


(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3584773/Derek%20Smart%20Star%20Citizen%203rd%20Article%20July%2015th%202015.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on July 16, 2015, 01:21:51 AM
Almost everyone involved in this really needs to grow up.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on July 16, 2015, 01:26:15 AM
Almost everyone involved in this really needs to grow up.


Shhh, here you can have my pop corn.
Sit down, it's gonna git gud.

(http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Bear-Sitting-in-Chair.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: DraconianOne on July 16, 2015, 02:09:21 AM
You know whose input we're missing?  Bloodworth's.  What's the story there - did he get banned or just pissed off that no-one was taking SC seriously?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 16, 2015, 02:24:12 AM
Last time he posted here was 4 months ago, explaining us in detail why everything was going according to plan.

So the approach of making it a mini-game is completely appropriate. In AC right now, you can leave your ship and see an early version, likely to be updated when the FPS portion is released. Its all rolls back into itself.

I think part of the issue is comprehension. Not many are used to seeing something like a game made, and all the iterations and components being worked and reworked. With each bit of information ( and there is nearly a constant stream ) many treat it as if its the typical "4 months to release" info dump. The damage model is a great example of iteration, and wholly confused commenters. When the first iteration is treated as "the finial" one and the second, and quite possibly not even last method is vastly different. Most people I suspect are not accustomed to seeing the guts of development, even SC for all its transparency, its still sanitized and compiled. Many are simply used to normal patterns of information in the few months leading up-to launch, so every bit of info that the media cares to share ( witch seems to mostly be focused on the money, Not really CIGS' fault, the details and info about subsystems are available ) becomes the next "Final" version in many viewers minds.


(http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljm6oqSPVw1qelwb9o1_400.gif)


Im genuinely sorry if I contributed to annoy him. But I still think his stance on SC was ridiculous.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on July 16, 2015, 06:01:06 AM
DMart is really obsessed with setting things ablaze. Might want to look at his childhood and possible open arson cases.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on July 16, 2015, 06:38:55 AM
 :awesome_for_real: :awesome_for_real:

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/621648637106495488


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mithas on July 16, 2015, 06:39:33 AM
He's gone full  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on July 16, 2015, 07:03:52 AM
The funny thing is an independent audit is actually in their EULA under certain conditions.

DSmart throwing a nutty isn't one of those, however.  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 16, 2015, 07:08:05 AM
The thing is, he can demand or ask whatever he wants and no one is gonna give a fuck. Unless someone sues (and he won't), nothing is gonna happen. Even the FTC, are they ever gonna step in if no one files a complain letter?

In a way, what he's doing is cowardly because it looks like he's doing all he can in order to have SOMEONE ELSE sue Roberts.

Also, not easy to sue them cause I am under the impression that they will jsut refund anyone who complains, effectively preventing them to be able to sue or file a complain as you are not a customer anymore. Does it make sense?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on July 16, 2015, 07:44:43 AM
"It will be swift. It will be sudden. It will be decisive."

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/621684863675047936


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on July 16, 2015, 07:53:34 AM
Fuck sake.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on July 16, 2015, 08:00:20 AM
Sheeeit  :grin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W21wobX_85U


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 16, 2015, 08:23:36 AM
What a cuntmuffin.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Xuri on July 16, 2015, 08:38:36 AM
Is "legal" the name of Smart's dog or something? He seems to clear everything with legal, for whatever good that's supposed to do.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on July 16, 2015, 08:45:46 AM
This game is the gift that keeps on giving. My investment of $0 has been well worth it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on July 16, 2015, 09:27:33 AM
If you invest $0 more today I'll give you a fish tank vanity item


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lantyssa on July 16, 2015, 09:49:30 AM
The other glaring difference is that they don't actually have the travel mug ready and offer only the faintest indication on when you might be getting it (unless you donated during the Kickstarter in which case they've already gone past the date they listed).
I got my Star Citizen ID Card a long time ago, so they have delivered something.  And they have game modules, just not a comprehensive or complete whole.  There's no remedy should things fall apart because there won't be any money.  Either something more is produced or what's left vanishes in a puff of smoke.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Goreschach on July 16, 2015, 11:05:42 AM
"It will be swift. It will be sudden. It will be decisive."

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/621684863675047936

(http://i.imgur.com/uol2mm2.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on July 16, 2015, 11:09:22 AM
I have a hard time bending my head around people who actually appear to think like that and say or write things of that kind with apparent lack of irony or self-deprecation.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on July 16, 2015, 11:10:31 AM
I have a hard time bending my head around people who actually appear to think like that and say or write things of that kind with apparent lack of irony or self-deprecation.

If I hadn't seen you around here for years and years, that statement might convince me that you just discovered the internet for the firs time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on July 16, 2015, 12:00:46 PM
Somebody needs to give Star Citizen the Best Game of the Year award when all those stupid list start coming out at the end of the year.   :why_so_serious:


Sad thing is, it would probably be true.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on July 16, 2015, 12:08:26 PM
The game of the year is Crowfall.

Duh.

 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on July 16, 2015, 12:20:20 PM
i still think the game will come out and be, eh, okay, it'll be pretty cool i guess


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on July 16, 2015, 12:54:48 PM
I have a hard time bending my head around people who actually appear to think like that and say or write things of that kind with apparent lack of irony or self-deprecation.

If I hadn't seen you around here for years and years, that statement might convince me that you just discovered the internet for the firs time.

I've seen it a zillion times and I still have trouble understanding it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on July 16, 2015, 12:57:40 PM
"It will be swift. It will be sudden. It will be decisive."

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/621684863675047936

That sometimes happens to me after I eat too much fast food. So I can relate.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on July 16, 2015, 01:49:40 PM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/40386/Macros/evil_raccoon.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: penfold on July 16, 2015, 02:00:10 PM
"I dont want to insinuate that I'm Jesus,

but

I'm Jesus."

(http://i.imgur.com/mueR9wD.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tannhauser on July 16, 2015, 02:27:38 PM
Magnificent performance art. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on July 16, 2015, 04:45:40 PM
This is just pro wrestling now, except with less integrity.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Fabricated on July 16, 2015, 05:11:02 PM
This fucking rules.

Also relinking for this page:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEuY6-UM8VI


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on July 16, 2015, 05:58:50 PM
This is just pro wrestling now, except with less integrity.
Also more confusing. Is this supposed to be face-heel or heel-face turn for the good doctor?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MahrinSkel on July 16, 2015, 06:27:54 PM
This is just pro wrestling now, except with less integrity.
Also more confusing. Is this supposed to be face-heel or heel-face turn for the good doctor?
Who cares, I just want to see somebody get hit with a chair.

--Dave


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lantyssa on July 16, 2015, 06:31:24 PM
heel-heel


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on July 16, 2015, 08:37:45 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRuJZSzWCYw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRuJZSzWCYw)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on July 16, 2015, 09:13:46 PM
This fucking rules.

Also relinking for this page:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEuY6-UM8VI

Yep.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on July 17, 2015, 05:22:31 AM
http://www.dereksmart.org/2015/07/interstellar-justice/

"unadulterated puffery".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: carnifex27 on July 17, 2015, 05:42:09 AM
"And next, I’m going to take out a full page article in the NY times, just to prove it."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 17, 2015, 05:55:03 AM
Quote
Give backers the opportunity to hire an independent forensics accountant, and an executive producer, to audit the company records, and give an accurate picture of the financial health of the company, and it’s ability to complete, and deliver this project in a timely fashion. I hereby offer to foot the entire costs of this effort. And I will put up to $1m of my own money, in an escrow account of an attorney’s choosing, to be used as-needed for this exercise. I will pay this price to prove that I had every right to seek these answers. So this money can either go toward a good cause (righting this ship), or to attorneys who are most likely to burn it all down anyway.

What's sad though is that this article proves exactly what Schild said a few days ago. He got nothing. He's been trying to raise hell in order to get more info, tips, leaks and whatever else. But this third article, despite the 1M stunt, is about nothing new at all and proves that he's running out of fuel. Too bad.


EDIT: About the NY Times...

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3584773/Derek%20Smart%20NY%20Times.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on July 17, 2015, 06:05:55 AM
An audit of an $85M company doesn't cost $1M. It would barely cost $100k if you got a huge firm to do it. I guarantee their records can't be that complicated, and if they are that means it's fucked and the audit firm would walk away without issuing an opinion due to a scope limitation.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on July 17, 2015, 06:36:52 AM
I knew I still got the NY Times for a reason.  Looking forward to that one.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tannhauser on July 17, 2015, 06:37:03 AM
"These bastards, most of whom were probably running around in diapers, rubbing poo-dipped hands on their faces, when I was earning my chops as a hardcore Internet Warlord, simply don’t know who they’re dealing with."

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTtyZnJq66H-uwQeti8uOOqrYtqZZfDGuiLZE7gC_-30RDK74iS)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on July 17, 2015, 07:55:11 AM
Wow. That's really a quote. Nice.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on July 17, 2015, 08:25:05 AM
Assuming it is real, where does this jackoff get his money?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on July 17, 2015, 08:45:18 AM
I have no idea if its true, but in the previous blog post he mentioned something about investments.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 17, 2015, 08:46:42 AM
He keeps mentioning here and there that he made money through sound investments.

Quote
Here’s the thing. I wasn’t rich when I started out. And I’m not crazy rich or anything. At all. But being rich is relative. If you’ve never had $1m, and you then you have it, that’s one level of rich. To another guy who is crazy rich, $1m is nothing. It is safe to say that my rich, is the kind that “Fuck You” buys.

Since the gains from my first game, and sound investments, over the years, I’ve kept my developments small, manageable, indie etc. I don’t live a life of wanton spending and such. For example, I’m not going to go out and buy a $1m car, or a $20m house just because I can afford it.

Yes, I do have lots of nice things, nice cars, houses, apartment, I dress well, eat well, live well etc, but they’re not things I wouldn’t otherwise do or have if I had a $250K a year job. It’s all relative.

... which also seems to imply that his current job (http://qol.com/about/) earns him more than 250k a year. Which sounds like science fiction (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA-R00CqHf8), but it's not like I understand money.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on July 17, 2015, 10:00:32 AM
Somehow that explains so much and so little.  I'm not sure I trust the article completely but I'm sure if you head up a company and avoid women, getting that first million is easy.

One more bit of crazy is that he doesn't seem to understand how much things cost.  Or maybe I don't understand how much things cost, I'm just a regular type dude.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on July 17, 2015, 10:34:49 AM
I thought he was a trust fund baby. Independent designers as old as he is in the industry typically were


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on July 17, 2015, 11:06:59 AM
I knew I still got the NY Times for a reason.  Looking forward to that one.

Is the reason you forgot to cancel it?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on July 17, 2015, 11:37:14 AM
I thought he was a trust fund baby. Independent designers as old as he is in the industry typically were

I did expect this, but if he still has a lot of it then maybe he's not terrible at everything.  I might also assume that he isn't going to really spend $1M on something dumb.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on July 17, 2015, 11:44:32 AM
I knew I still got the NY Times for a reason.  Looking forward to that one.

Is the reason you forgot to cancel it?

Nah, I actually do read the paper every day.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on July 17, 2015, 11:54:05 AM
I thought he got his money from settling out of court for his bajillion lawsuits people just want to make go away.

My favorite thing about Dmart is the unflinching lack of self-awareness and hypocrisy. He goes ballistic with the first whiff of anyone talking shit about him, and then ceaselessly talks shit about people. Everyone should respect him but he can casually disrespect anyone at his whim.

What a dick.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on July 17, 2015, 12:05:20 PM
From the Dep't of Irony, here's the header from the page linked above with the latest rant:

(http://i.imgur.com/xPPpDTZ.png)

 :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on July 17, 2015, 12:13:27 PM
I knew I still got the NY Times for a reason.  Looking forward to that one.

Is the reason you forgot to cancel it?

Nah, I actually do read the paper every day.

I would if I had the time. Sometimes I do on Sundays.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Abagadro on July 17, 2015, 01:05:15 PM
Shit got serious. He's taking out an AD. An AD on real paper!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on July 17, 2015, 01:27:06 PM
There is probably more where that came from, too.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on July 17, 2015, 01:42:04 PM
Shit got serious. He's taking out an AD. An AD on real paper!
Next up, AM radio spots.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Kail on July 17, 2015, 02:08:47 PM
Shit got serious. He's taking out an AD. An AD on real paper!

(http://www.kerao.net/external/roberts.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on July 17, 2015, 02:28:57 PM
Posters hate me, because it's this one weird trick.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sophismata on July 17, 2015, 10:16:39 PM
My only exposure to that style of ad has been via other people mocking or satirising them. I think the jokes are more common than the real thing.

...well I'd hope so, anyway.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Goreschach on July 17, 2015, 10:29:34 PM
What are you even talking about? The internet hasn't had ads in years.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on July 18, 2015, 05:03:32 AM
Star Marine weekly update:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14838-Star-Marine-Status-Update

Also, a temporary ship status thread has been posted on the forums, waiting for a nicer version to be published on the website proper.

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/272231


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sophismata on July 18, 2015, 09:44:23 AM
What are you even talking about? The internet hasn't had ads in years.
Essentially my point. But it could also be regional, as internet advertising is a lot more intelligent these days (profiles users and serves ads based on key interest and age demographics).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Furiously on July 18, 2015, 10:52:11 PM
I'm trying to figure how they are going to balance people that have spent $1500 on a ship vs. someone who buys one in game. I've come to the conclusion the only way they cannot piss the original backers off is to continue to sell ships for RL money.  Or just laugh at the rubes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on July 19, 2015, 12:22:11 AM
I'm trying to figure how they are going to balance people that have spent $1500 on a ship vs. someone who buys one in game. I've come to the conclusion the only way they cannot piss the original backers off is to continue to sell ships for RL money.  Or just laugh at the rubes.

Why not both? :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Furiously on July 19, 2015, 12:30:30 AM
I'm trying to figure how they are going to balance people that have spent $1500 on a ship vs. someone who buys one in game. I've come to the conclusion the only way they cannot piss the original backers off is to continue to sell ships for RL money.  Or just laugh at the rubes.

Why not both? :awesome_for_real:

I mean, can they seriously make a ship that people spent thousands of dollars on take a week or two to get? Won't a founder firebomb their studio? Their ship marketing is darn good, but once the game comes out....


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: apocrypha on July 19, 2015, 01:33:24 AM
but once the game comes out....

(http://media.giphy.com/media/ZqlvCTNHpqrio/giphy.gif)

Edit: yes, the gif artifacts were bothering me.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: penfold on July 19, 2015, 03:34:17 AM
I'm trying to figure how they are going to balance people that have spent $1500 on a ship vs. someone who buys one in game. I've come to the conclusion the only way they cannot piss the original backers off is to continue to sell ships for RL money.  Or just laugh at the rubes.

Yeah, so if i play a vanilla version I'll never be able to have a decent fighter or capital ship? The way they've set this up means its likely it wont be playable for anyone with $50 to drop on a box copy.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 19, 2015, 03:45:25 AM
I think you should compare some of those ships to EVE ships. You know those immense carriers that take hundreds of people to build and that are worth a few thousand dollars and when one gets destroyed it makes the news? I think this is what they are aiming for. They ARE available in game, but not without a prolonger combined effort of a lot of players. In EVE, players are fine with that, so I guess Chris Roberts assume they will be fine with that in Star Citizen too.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on July 19, 2015, 05:14:33 AM
I think you should compare some of those ships to EVE ships. You know those immense carriers that take hundreds of people to build and that are worth a few thousand dollars and when one gets destroyed it makes the news? I think this is what they are aiming for. They ARE available in game, but not without a prolonger combined effort of a lot of players. In EVE, players are fine with that, so I guess Chris Roberts assume they will be fine with that in Star Citizen too.

I thought the idea with all those "premium" ships was that they were fully insured (or something like that) so you won't really lose anything if your ship gets blown up?

It would make for some awesome reading if you'd actually lose the ship like in EVE.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on July 19, 2015, 05:34:49 AM
They'll piss off the original backers who thought they would get an in-game advantage by buying ships in advance during the funding campaign. It remains to be seen if this is the mindset (getting a gameplay advantage) of the vast majority of the original backers or not (I suspect many among those are just impulse buyers). For example, although I purchased a few ships (but only among the small/mid ones: biggest one I have is the Freelancer MAX (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/ships/misc-freelancer/Freelancer-MAX)), I never did it because I genuinely though I would be a step ahead.

You also have to keep in mind that, unlike the current status of E:D, game will probably launch will guilds, so it won't take THAT long to acquire one of those $1,500 carriers, no matter their equivalent in-game credits.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on July 19, 2015, 06:38:34 AM
The obvious solution is to make the ship in game require Sucker Points in the amount it'd take you a million years to acquire... unless you spend ~1.5k USD on Sucker Point Boosters.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on July 19, 2015, 07:34:12 AM
The obvious solution is to make the ship in game require Sucker Points in the amount it'd take you a million years to acquire... unless you spend ~1.5k USD on Sucker Point Boosters.

 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on July 19, 2015, 09:05:48 AM
New video interview with Chris Roberts regarding the FPS module (15 minutes long) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seD9YAtqZ0I




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on July 19, 2015, 10:40:55 AM
New video interview with Chris Roberts regarding the FPS module (15 minutes long) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seD9YAtqZ0I




Good lord, Jon Snow has really let himself go after getting killed off.  Also, if that woman who is now VP of marketing or whatever really is Chris Roberts wife...Roberts is richer than I thought.  He is not a handsome man.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on July 20, 2015, 07:54:14 AM
Of course he's rich.  Now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on July 20, 2015, 08:08:16 AM
I'm trying to figure how they are going to balance people that have spent $1500 on a ship vs. someone who buys one in game. I've come to the conclusion the only way they cannot piss the original backers off is to continue to sell ships for RL money.  Or just laugh at the rubes.

A large segment of the whale backers are going to be pissed off one way or another. The demographic of people who are going to drop that kind of cash on the promise of future spaceship pixels in a game that doesn't exist yet self-selects very heavily for conspicuously fixative personalities who are not going to be able to handle that their investment greatly exceeds the effective value of any fucking game that anyone on earth could ever make, because games are rarely worth more than sixty dollars.

At the same time, another segment of the whale backers will just be obsessed with the game forever and worship any decision or update or lack of update made by the company, no matter how questionable.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on July 20, 2015, 08:08:51 AM
Also, we need a Star Citizen prediction thread. I am legitimately intrigued that so many people strongly believe the game is going to vaporware.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on July 20, 2015, 08:24:34 AM
Didn't they say originally that all ships were going to be available in the game somehow and buying them now just gets you a leg up only at the start of the game? Why would whales get angry down the line (outside that they are crazy to begin with anyway)?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on July 20, 2015, 08:26:49 AM
Also, we need a Star Citizen prediction thread. I am legitimately intrigued that so many people strongly believe the game is going to vaporware.

You think it will be something else ?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 20, 2015, 08:33:15 AM
Given how much they spend each month, there is a legitimate possibility that the game falls on its head before release. They have collected $85M and they are still making money, but they are also burning A LOT of cash. So, given that they can't make more money than they burn forever, the question is: can they release it in an even vaguely acceptable shape before they implode? I am pretty sure they are asking themselves the same question at CIG, even more so with every new delay.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on July 20, 2015, 08:37:40 AM
People are spending thousands of dollars on pixals and promises now. How much money do you think they'll make on DLC when they actually play the single player game? Billions man. Billions.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 20, 2015, 08:39:29 AM
I am talking of the possibility of them going belly up before the single player releases.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tazelbain on July 20, 2015, 08:40:48 AM
Given how much they spend each month, there is a legitimate possibility that the game falls on its head before release. They have collected $85M and they are still making money, but they are also burning A LOT of cash. So, given that they can't make more money than they burn forever, the question is: can they release it in an even vaguely acceptable shape before they implode? I am pretty sure they are asking themselves the same question at CIG, even more so with every new delay.
Which leads to the question: how many more promises can the chump market bear?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on July 20, 2015, 08:51:29 AM
Also, we need a Star Citizen prediction thread. I am legitimately intrigued that so many people strongly believe the game is going to vaporware.
I see two outcomes that are not entirely mutually exclusive.

In the first a game comes out but it's not the game that has been pitched so far. It's something sane but obviously doesn't match the hype. Many people, especially those who are in for any non-trivial amount of money are vocally unhappy about it and the game limps along under that cloud for a bit before quietly folding when all the noise has settled down.

The second option is where they stay true to their vision and actually try and build the game they say they will. This goes badly and RSI implodes. For the next few years, former employees wash up in other studios and tell stories that no-one who wasn't there with them will believe.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on July 20, 2015, 08:56:42 AM
I am talking of the possibility of them going belly up before the single player releases.

They'll get something out, I'm very positive about that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on July 20, 2015, 09:10:45 AM
At this point I can only see a few outcomes (In ascending order of likelihood):

7.) Roberts Space Industries ships a game that is everything the backers hoped the game would be. This will happen shortly after we've achieved nuclear fusion and world peace, solved global warming and hell has frozen over.

6.) Roberts Space Industries ships a game that contains everything RSI claimed would be in it. Only marginally more likely. Hell still needs to freeze over, global warming unfortunately remains unsolved.

5.) Roberts Space Industries ships a game that - while it doesn't contain all that was promised - at least contains a decent or even great core game and they still have enough money left to continue development. They spend the following months being mired in bad PR and have to endure category 5 internet shitstorms. Most fans will delude themselves further by waiting until RSI delivers the missing features.

4.) Roberts Space Industries ships a game that - while it doesn't contain all that was promised - at least contains a decent or even great core game. Unfortunately they ran out of money during development and can't continue to support and expand it. They spend the following months being mired in bad PR and have to endure category 5 internet shitstorms. They are also the target of at least one class action lawsuit that won't go anywhere.

3.) Roberts Space Industries ships a game that is mediocre or even bad. They spend the following months being mired in bad PR and have to endure category 5 internet shitstorms. They are also the target of at least one class action lawsuit that won't go anywhere. Meanwhile disappointed Star Citizen fans will argue with deluded Star Citizen fans over whether or not the game is great, whether or not Chris Roberts has realized the 'vision' he had for Star Citizen and whether or not the dress is gold/white or black/blue. At this point it won't matter whether or not RSI has any money left or files for bankruptcy protection and if they have any intention of continuing development of the game. The kickstarter for Star Citizen 1.5 wll raise 20 million regardless.

2.) At some point in the not too distant future Roberts Space Industries ships something - anything - that could be considered a "Star Citizen" game due to fan pressure and for legal reasons and files for bankruptcy and chapter 11 protection directly after. Over the following weeks and months more and more dirty laundry is aired and what comes out confirms or even exceeds our suspicions. The legality of the whole thing will be challenged in court but by the time everything is decided nobody will care anymore.

1.) Employee turnover will rise continually as more and more key people leave the company to "pursue other ventures". Once the non-disclosure clauses of the employee contracts run out more and more internals about the state and progress of the game, the amount of money the management staff has spent on coke and hookers and the fact that that there's basically no real game to speak of will be leaked onto the internet. Contractors, business partners and (ex-)employees come forward and claim that they haven't been paid in months and that RSI is essentially bankrupt. Chris Roberts will issue statements that basically say that all claims are patently false. Hard core SC fans will delude themselves further. Soon after RSI unsurprisingly files for bankruptcy and chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. Star Citizen never comes out. The legality of the whole thing will be challenged in court but by the time everything is decided nobody will care anymore.

Corrollary: RSI is not really bankrupt instead Chris Roberts and his associates have transferred most of the remaining funds into off-shore shell acounts.

Personally I think that it will likely be anything between 3 to 1 with 2 being the one I think is most likely to happen


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on July 20, 2015, 09:25:37 AM
They will release something.  In that sense it won't be vaporware.  The game they are selling and promoting though, that will never exist.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Fabricated on July 20, 2015, 10:16:30 AM
They'll release something that is probably like a larger scale but far buggier Elite:Dangerous, promising all of the rest of the modules later. They'll sell this "beta" or "early access" version at full price and rake in the money again until people again realize that the game cannot be delivered as advertised.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rasix on July 20, 2015, 10:39:12 AM
Something will be released. Chances are it will even be really good.  Will it justify going into financial ruin over fake spaceships? No. It'll take years post launch to get there and things will get permanently cut that were promised.  The feature set reads like something I'd dream up in middle school, when I thought I knew something about game design because I'd played a lot of video games.

"Launch" will likely be a disaster of Funcomian proportions. I just feel that the multiplayer integration is going to fall down pretty severely at load.  What you can glimpse about the overall architecture from how the features are designed just screams out "bad fucking idea, mate".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Threash on July 20, 2015, 11:02:38 AM
"Launch" will actually be a 2-3 year long open beta.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on July 20, 2015, 11:31:17 AM
Regarding the release, keep in mind that Roberts never actually said that every feature (especially those from the stretch goals) will suddenly bloom into existence at 00.01am 20-?

From this article on Poylygon (yep, as always he was a little too enthusiastic about dates :P) :
http://www.polygon.com/features/2015/3/2/8131661/star-citizen-chris-roberts-interview

Quote
And then at the very end of the year we will release the very early alpha of the persistent universe. It wont be nearly all of the systems and planets, but we plan to have five or six systems you can fly between. You won't be able to do all of the things we're planning on you to do, but probably trading, mining, piracy, combat and a lot of core stuff."

Then the company plans to spend 2016 filling out the rest of the star system, finishing ships, finishing characters "basically going from five to 130 star systems and adding more of the functionally and features on that we have and building out different roles."

So yeah, the planned transition is not that different from what E:D did in late beta, although the feature set, the scope and the technology (handcrafted vs procedural) is very different, of course.

Further down, he says:
Quote
His hope is that the shift from beta to no-longer-in-beta will be, as with Minecraft, not that noticeable.

"That's what we think will happen towards the end of 2016 because that's when we think we will have finished the content and get most of the polishing in," he says. "We are saying before then we think it still be rough around the edges and have issues."

The most noticeable difference once the game is retail, he says, will likely be a change in the way the game will be priced.

"We will remove the crowdfunding aspects of it, and that will probably be the point where we do some proper marketing," he says. "At some point, once it is finished, we would probably do a push to get the general gamer in. Right now we're still hitting only a certain segment of the game population"

Regarding the single player game, Squadron 42, it might turn in some actual profit beside those who already owns it because of a game package they acquired in the last couple years.

As far as I know, the plan for S42 is to release it like the Telltale games: first episode is going to be the first ten missions, but you'll always pay for the full campaign.
-----

Back to the Star Citizen Alpha, reading the excessively verbose, but quite open, "monthly reports", consider that work is being done on at least 4 out of those initial 5 star systems: Stanton, Dalamar, Nyx and Terra, with Stanton closest to the finish line 'cause one planet will feature in the Social/Planetside module.

This whole beast might speed up, especially with the creation of environments/locations, once they create all the props and main layouts, that will be re-used and/or adjusted with all the other planets/systems as they see fit (together with more unique locations, of course).

Finally, yeah, network code seems quite hard to chew at, that's why they're implementing the "GIM" and rewriting a whole bunch of stuff. Here's what Roberts wrote about the whole mess they got into (it's worth a read, if you're a bit more interested in this beside the "scam vs best game evar" debate):



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MahrinSkel on July 20, 2015, 11:52:54 AM
Also, we need a Star Citizen prediction thread. I am legitimately intrigued that so many people strongly believe the game is going to vaporware.
I think something will be produced called "Star Citizen", and that it will massively under-deliver on expectations, because the expectations are undeliverable at any level of cost or talent.

--Dave


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on July 20, 2015, 02:19:45 PM
At this point I can only see a few outcomes (In ascending order of likelihood):

7.) Roberts Space Industries ships a game that is everything the backers hoped the game would be. This will happen shortly after we've achieved nuclear fusion and world peace, solved global warming and hell has frozen over.

6.) Roberts Space Industries ships a game that contains everything RSI claimed would be in it. Only marginally more likely. Hell still needs to freeze over, global warming unfortunately remains unsolved.
Pretty safe bet the solution to global warming is already included in the core Star Citizen feature set, and that it will involve Hell freezing over.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on July 20, 2015, 02:50:35 PM
So, a new Letter from the Chairman has been posted on the website:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14839-Letter-From-The-Chairman

Back from the UK, Roberts talks about the most common concerns that arose during his absence: staff departures, feature creep, development time and he reflects a bit more on what open development entails for Star Citizen.

Quote
A week ago Wednesday we wrapped the main performance and motion capture for Squadron 42, Episode 1, after 66 shooting days. We started shooting on March 31st at Ealing Studios in London and completed principal performance and motion capture on July 8th. This is more shooting days than any film I’ve ever been involved with! I directed my last scene on Friday July 3rd, leaving David Haddock, our lead writer, who along with William Weissbaum wrote the Squadron 42 script, to direct the last three days of secondary character “wild lines” and motion sets the following Monday through Wednesday.

That Monday I took a train up to Wilmslow to the Foundry 42 UK Office to spend some time with the Squadron 42 development team in person as well as gather key people from our various studios and our technical partners for a technical summit on our character and facial animation technology and pipeline. Like everything on Star Citizen and Squadron 42 we are aiming to push the envelope – with the tech we are working on for animation, shaders and AI we are aiming to give you a fluid immersion inside the story of Squadron 42 and later the bigger world of the Persistent Universe of Star Citizen, in a way that conveys the emotional subtlety of film. It’s one of the reasons why our performance capture shoot was so long – maybe 10% of the scenes we shot were for cinematics, the rest were all for scenes where we allow full player control that play out during game control from your POV. Most games just record voiceovers for these types of scenes over a few days, but for us it was important to capture the full performance of our amazing cast. This allows us to then blend the captured performance of the actor’s face and body with other motions to adjust the game character’s looks and movement so they react in a natural manner to the player’s actions (whatever they may be). At the fidelity we are going for we are definitely breaking new ground, but luckily we are working with some of the leading companies and people in the area of scanning real people and bringing their performances into 3D in the most life-like way. 3 Lateral and Cubic Motion are well known for their amazing work in this field and we are partnering with them to push performance capture and real time playback beyond what you have seen in a game before. Internally we have been hiring up some incredible talent, including the architect of the CryEngine animation system, who recently joined us in Frankfurt.



But that's not all: there is also a video piece, running for 1h30m, where he address the same concerns a bit more extensively (you can jump directly to each segment in the youtube video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1Mkcq160cE
- What is the status of Star Marine?
-  Have you been in contact with the team?
- Why is there stuff in the leak we haven't seen?
- What are your thoughts on controller balance?
- What's the story behind recent staff departures?
- Why isn't the concept ship I bought playable, yet?
- Why do you still have concept sales?
- How has Star Citizen changed since the beginning?
- Is Star Citizen impossible to finish?
- What's next for Star Citizen?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on July 20, 2015, 03:25:08 PM
Wouldn't it be more cost effective to license Cryengine that to hire one of its architects?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hutch on July 20, 2015, 05:12:28 PM
Their next stretch goal is to do both.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tannhauser on July 20, 2015, 07:28:47 PM
I hope this game never releases.  I want to see neckbeards watered by the tears of penniless man-children!   


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on July 20, 2015, 10:57:52 PM
On the Jeff Kelly Scale of Star Citizen Release Likelihood, I give this roughtly a 3.5.  I just want to pew pew some stuff.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on July 21, 2015, 12:07:20 AM
I give it a 0.75.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 21, 2015, 12:08:52 AM
Also, we need a Star Citizen prediction thread. I am legitimately intrigued that so many people strongly believe the game is going to vaporware.
There's a gradient to vaporware. Are people going to get what they want? No. Are they going to get a flaming bag of shit? Yes. Will that bag of shit be worth playing? Probably, to the true believers.

Does anyone here give a fuck? If they do, they shouldn't.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on July 21, 2015, 02:04:15 AM
At this point I can only see a few outcomes (In ascending order of likelihood):

Almost all these options involve the term "ships a game" which I think fundamentally misses how developers of "early access" games string people along. There isn't going to be some solid date where a product is shipped, or even where they say something along the lines of "This is it. The is the first full version of this game."

The most likely thing is that they're going to keep doing what they're doing, which is slowly release the game in the smallest bits possible (and even those will get delayed). I mean they started off with a fucking hangar where you could look at your ship which they released 9 months after the Kickstarter finished. 10 months after that they released the Arena Commander module (6 months later than the initial plan of Dec. 2013). Over a year after Arena Commander came out and now people are waiting on the delayed release of the FPS module, which currently according to Chris Roberts is "3, 4, maybe 5 weeks" away (delayed from "we said we hoped it was going to be out sometime in April, but 'don't hold me to that' was what I actually said").

They can keep this up for a long time because apparently all Roberts has to do is put out a Letter from the Chairman and everyone will go back to patiently waiting for the Great Pumpkin to show up. Great quote from that one linked above though:

Quote
Squadron 42 is going to be something special. I could feel it on set with the performances we were getting, with me knowing how we can bring those into the game. Squadron 42 is going to be like this amazing sci-fi movie where instead of just watching, you truly feel you’re in the world, emotionally connected to the other characters in the story.

The last example of this guy trying to direct a sci-fi movie doesn't give me with any indication that he knows what a good performance looks like or how to get one.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on July 21, 2015, 03:14:42 AM
Even early access games technically ship games or game revisions. That they call it alpha or beta is just a technicality at some point they ship something. At a point even further along they stop development on it either due to lack of funds or lack of motivation. It doesn't matter if the dev team keeps their game in perpetual beta just so that they can claim that it isn't finished yet.

That perpetual "beta-ness" is the worst aspect of early-access since it's almost exclusively used to shut down legitimate customer complaints. ("You can't complain about X, the game isn't even finished yet"). It doesn't matter though. At one point a 0.90 is technically the finished product regardless of the labelling by the developer.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on July 21, 2015, 04:11:09 AM
Even early access games technically ship games or game revisions. That they call it alpha or beta is just a technicality at some point they ship something.

But then by that definition they've already "shipped" something (Arena Commander). The way they're going about their development/early access, they don't have to release an actual piece of software titled Star Citizen for years if they keep drawing out these module releases like they have been.

My prediction for Star Citizen:

FPS module releases in Sept./Oct
First part of Squadron 42 is currently "scheduled" for late 2015 I think, so I'm guessing the reality will be 2nd qtr/Summer 2016. Might be less missions than originally planned.
Persistent Module beta "minimum of four months after the first squadron 42 chapter is released" according to one link. Probably will be early 2017 for a bare bones, very limited beta that will likely shit itself whenever more than 30 people are logged in. Multi-crew ships still won't be in. Player-run servers will of course still be absent.
Adding some missions to Squadron 42 and incrementally improving the Persistent beta will go on through 2017. Fun will be patched in later, but look at those awesome animations and cutscenes.
Beyond that they'll continue to find ways to stretch things out.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on July 21, 2015, 07:28:00 AM
Didn't they say originally that all ships were going to be available in the game somehow and buying them now just gets you a leg up only at the start of the game? Why would whales get angry down the line (outside that they are crazy to begin with anyway)?

The people who paid 30-75 bucks or so are likely to get a product worth the cash, because that's within the realm of what a game should cost.

The people who dropped major sums of money on this are never going to get a game that is worth literal thousands of dollars.

Instead of going "well maybe this is an important lesson about how I spend my money" many of them will construct massive walls of cognitive dissonance and create fantastic spittle wells of logic about how the game was supposed to be worth their investment and was going to be but someone fucked it up and Chris Roberts and company deserve a Smartian shellacking for not delivering their impossible internal hype to them on a silver platter.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on July 21, 2015, 08:24:51 AM
Here's Smart's take on the latest comm by Mr. Roberts:

("Why Star Citizen Is Destined To Fail")
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sn49nk


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 21, 2015, 09:35:11 AM
If there's one thing Smart knows, it's failure.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on July 21, 2015, 10:20:52 AM
One of the problems with "early access" is that you get your money at the beginning, as you progress there is less and less reason to keep developing as you wont get your big money chucg at launch, and the people who wereexcited enough about your game to buy it are already sick of it by launch day. So you can litterally one day say "feature complte" and shut it down and there wont be an outcry as no-one gives a shit anymore after wrangluing with yor bugged piece of crap game for 6 months.

It is basically anti-consumer and is driving down the quality of games.

In this case though we have a bunch of rabid fanatics that are literally chewing off their own arms to speed this thing along because of the name of Roberts. I dont think they can wait for people to lose interest here.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on July 22, 2015, 04:44:18 AM
Dmart's old Battlecruiser thing is basically a pretty good prediction for the future. Remember that there were people who thought it was the greatest once they could (sort of) play it, because they were so invested in the idea of it. If people have spent a lot of time telling themselves that something has to be good, and they've got money on it, there are some who will just grimly grit their teeth and tell themselves that it IS good even if the actual released product corrupts their operating system and molests their grandmother.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on July 22, 2015, 07:16:26 AM
I think I tossed 30-40 bucks at this a few years ago. I'm more than happy to get A) Get a cool game. B) Get a meh game that I have a few hours of fun with. C) Have the entertainment of watching the whole thing collapse.

It's really win/tie/win. No loss.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on July 22, 2015, 07:35:56 AM
Except that I didn't pay $40 several years ago and I still get the benefit of C for free, and can just pay $40 if they do actually come out with an ok game when that happens.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on July 22, 2015, 07:56:47 AM
Oh I think everyone is agreed that they will drop some cash if this thing, against all indications, turns out to be a decent game. I think I would get more out of setting 200 quid on fire otherwise though. At least you will get warm.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on July 22, 2015, 08:14:43 AM
Let's be honest concerning the people, like me, who dropped 40ish bucks on this during the kickstarter. Back then the scope was very reasonable and appeared eminently doable. So many of us dropped the initial on it because we wanted to see it get made. Then shortly after, and completely out of our control, it morphed into this beast of burden that no single person could have predicted in those first few months.

Quite honestly, the initial proposal for the game looked like it could be some good fun and at the time 40 bucks was literally worth seeing it get made since this genre is completely under served. Fuck RSI for turning it into this shit show.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: WayAbvPar on July 22, 2015, 10:17:23 AM
It is probably going to be worth it for me to spend up to $50 if/when this ever launches just to get in to troll all the dumbfucks who spent $11k.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MahrinSkel on July 22, 2015, 10:45:53 AM
What is the spaceship version of Fetapults?

--Dave


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rasix on July 22, 2015, 11:08:41 AM
It is probably going to be worth it for me to spend up to $50 if/when this ever launches just to get in to troll all the dumbfucks who spent $11k.

I wonder if we'll be able to huddle around someone's space Ferrari and emote *azzrape*.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on July 22, 2015, 11:46:50 AM
What is the spaceship version of Fetapults?

--Dave

I bet they'd sell it to you for $20k.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on July 22, 2015, 02:53:50 PM
for what it's worth I think that the most likely outcome is "it's an okay game" coupled with lots of birthing pains across a laborious tiered release.

or it could be actually good, but it will neither be vaporware nor the digital coming of jesus


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 23, 2015, 01:15:03 AM
The most likely outcome is a game with "a lot of potential", but which will always be plagued by technical issues that will prevent it from even being 'OK'.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on July 23, 2015, 06:21:32 AM
More likely, an idea with "a lot of potential", but always plagued by technical issues that prevent it from becoming an actual game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on July 23, 2015, 07:47:52 AM
The ironic thing is, if he had just made a modern Wing Commander with amazing graphics and sound, he would've been a hero.

Except to the tits who would complain it's "just a new wing commander", but fuck those assholes, anyway.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on July 23, 2015, 08:15:56 AM
More likely, an idea with "a lot of potential", but always plagued by technical issues that prevent it from becoming an actual game.

I guess that's ... marginally better than an idea with lots of potential but always plagued by a lack of actual content

i.e. Elite: Repetitious


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on July 23, 2015, 09:04:40 AM
I'm always a bit miffed when SC is being compared to Elite. Elite might not be the game we wanted, it might be an anachronism even. Yet it is finished, was released, is still maintained by the developer and included most of the things David Braben has promised. It's also mostly what the majority of E:D backers wanted or expected of the game.

So I don't really see the parallel.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on July 23, 2015, 09:50:45 AM
The space-sim genre is so small that everything about every single game is compared.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Furiously on July 23, 2015, 10:46:44 AM
I'd be willing to bet they will run out of money before it releases.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on July 23, 2015, 11:50:21 AM
I'd be willing to bet they will run out of money before it releases.

Look at it another way, when they run out of money is WHEN it releases, regardless of what "it" is at that point.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Job601 on July 23, 2015, 01:01:55 PM
For me, what makes this all so funny is that I don't think the backers would like what they think that they want, if they ever actually got it.  Which they won't.  The design on paper has the kind of absurd fetishization of "realism" at the expense of gameplay that you usually get from kids in high school.  Squadron 42 is a new and better Wing Commander is the only possible positive outcome that I see.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on July 23, 2015, 01:16:26 PM
I'd be willing to bet they will run out of money before it releases.

Every time they collect X dollars they commit to a new feature that will cost 2X - so very safe bet.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MahrinSkel on July 23, 2015, 01:17:50 PM
At a certain level you have to kind of admire it: It's "Feature Creep" as a business model.

--Dave


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: NiX on July 23, 2015, 02:51:33 PM
At a certain level you have to kind of admire it: It's "Feature Creep" as a business model.

--Dave

Kickstarter culture is both gross and fascinating.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on July 23, 2015, 03:57:44 PM
I'm always a bit miffed when SC is being compared to Elite. Elite might not be the game we wanted, it might be an anachronism even. Yet it is finished, was released, is still maintained by the developer and included most of the things David Braben has promised. It's also mostly what the majority of E:D backers wanted or expected of the game.

So I don't really see the parallel.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely prefer and admire elite's general model, because what you saw is what you got and at the end of the day they shipped the damn thing and no promises were denied. But at the same time I am starving for things to do in that game. Most are.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on July 24, 2015, 06:44:19 AM
At a certain level you have to kind of admire it: It's "Feature Creep" as a business model.

--Dave

Kickstarter culture is both gross and fascinating.

Why does every stupid thing get called a 'culture' these days. It aint a fucking culture.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lantyssa on July 24, 2015, 06:58:19 AM
It's the culture of sub-cultures.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on July 25, 2015, 03:35:14 AM
A few updates:

- Weekly Star Marine report (includes a couple videos, with a brief overview of the "Gold Horizon" map at the bottom)
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14857-Star-Marine-Status-Update

- KRGR (Kruger Intergalactic) P-52 Merlin is on sale and flyable in Arena Commander ( $20; link includes a flying and racing video):
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14854-Kruger-Intergalactic-P-52-Merlin-Now-Available

I think it has a nice "retro" feeling, similar to the old Wing Commander ships. Constellation ship owners have it for free (Constellation is designed to have it as an accompanying interceptor)

- Audio update:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14853-Star-Citizen-Audio-Update

Lots of technical stuff about the first iteration of Wwise audio for Star Citizen (link has several illustrative clips and images).

- Potential new segment, called "Game Commander" (looks like the content may vary for this. This one is mostly about fixing bugs with the Local and Global physics grid, explained by Roberts in the video) :
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14856-Game-Commander-With-Chris-Roberts




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Setanta on July 25, 2015, 11:42:44 PM
I can't help but think that CR actually reads this thread for his own entertainment. Not because f13 is wrong, but because he's raking in the cash on a level that none of us will ever experience.

In another time he could have formed his own religion. Actually, I swear he has.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on July 26, 2015, 12:14:58 AM
A few more decades (of scientific development) and CR can make his "sea org" in space!  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 26, 2015, 02:57:42 AM
Chris Roberts would have made Ayn Rand so proud. I can totally see him starting to (crowd)fund his own version of Bioshock's Rapture anytime now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 26, 2015, 12:41:51 PM
He doesn't need to crowdfund anything else. He can just siphon money from his current bullshit company.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on July 26, 2015, 09:15:59 PM
He doesn't need to crowdfund anything else. He can just siphon money from his current bullshit company.
"need"

Well, why not just pick up a few more million next time around? It's the promised land, and ain't nobody ain't going there once they found the door.

Also, what you said as well.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on July 27, 2015, 04:01:09 AM
Chris Roberts would have made Ayn Rand so proud. I can totally see him starting to (crowd)fund his own version of Bioshock's Rapture anytime now.
Posted this in another thread, but seems appropriate:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-21/inside-liberland-the-place-of-no-taxes-where-crowdfunding-rules

A nation where all critical services are crowd funded.  He'd fit right in!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tebonas on July 27, 2015, 07:17:30 AM
Heh, well they will need an army soon since Croatia arrests all would-be settlers and no sovereign nation can let THAT slide. Maybe he can crowdfund them some advanced space weaponry.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on July 28, 2015, 04:58:52 PM
Denture tech!  :grin:



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on July 28, 2015, 05:13:45 PM
3d artists, undoing the advancements of orthodontics since ~2010.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on July 29, 2015, 05:07:19 AM
This is worse than Toady working on dwarf beards in a text game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on July 29, 2015, 05:19:13 AM
How else would I be able to get the full digital eating experience?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on July 29, 2015, 05:26:44 AM
This is worse than Toady working on dwarf beards in a text game.

Man, it actually is. How sad is that?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on July 29, 2015, 05:28:25 AM
Nah, don't worry: they'll just implement a dental surgeon simulator mini-game  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Shannow on July 29, 2015, 07:04:53 AM
Nah, don't worry: they'll just implement a dental surgeon simulator mini-game  :grin:

No, they'll PROMISE one if they can get 50k in kickstarter contributions.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on July 29, 2015, 07:16:31 AM
To be fair, it only makes sense they put so much effort into it -- after all you'll be able to truly appreciate the level of detail when individual teeth knocked out during the FPS fisticuffs dance around your head, with the gravity switched off :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on July 29, 2015, 08:11:24 AM
Gravity is a stretch goal.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on August 07, 2015, 05:30:06 AM
Today, like the previous two years, there will be a special presentation in Cologne, broadcasted live on Twitch, at 2pm EST, 8pm CET and it will run 'til 6pm EST/Midnight CET (expect delays, like it always happens with CIG :P)

http://www.twitch.tv/starcitizen

Roberts already shed some details about it: it will be the first time they'll show what they call the "large world map": it's basically the fruit of the transition to 64-bit addressing of the engine. Here's a more detailed topic about it:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3e1bp9/further_clarification_on_large_world_map_for/

More details: character will start in a room onboard a space station; he'll proceed to a landing pad, where he'll then get on a Cutlass ship together with other characters; in space, with the backdrop of a 182,000 diameter gas giant and a couple moons,  they'll dock with a Constellation, get onboard, and then (maybe) fight a Retaliator. We might get to see the player "stations" inside a multicrew ship, where, in CIG's plans, each character can play a different role (one dedicated to  shields, another to systems, while another take care of the turrets and another one the main weapons, for example).

But, most importantly, they're showing the initial implementation of the two different grid physics systems: one for the "space" game and the other for the interior of the ships, so that players can move independently of what happens outside. Long-term plan is to implement physics of the interiors that react to ship hits/damage, like it happens in movies (think Star Trek/Battlestar Galactica).

Also, It looks like the press had a chance to see the latest progress they made with the FPS and the planetside portion of the game (press embargo ends today).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on August 07, 2015, 08:08:28 AM
Today, like the previous two years,

I do like it when people start off with a bit of humor.

the transition to 64-bit addressing of the engine.

Dare I ask why they started out with 32-bit addressing?

I also am not sure why two different physics implementations are needed unless they are planning on Star Trek Original Series style "physics".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on August 07, 2015, 08:26:20 AM
Today, like the previous two years,

I do like it when people start off with a bit of humor.

the transition to 64-bit addressing of the engine.

Dare I ask why they started out with 32-bit addressing?

I also am not sure why two different physics implementations are needed unless they are planning on Star Trek Original Series style "physics".

Regarding your first question, I think Roberts always planned to eventually make the transition, but initially he simply lacked the manpower who could be fully dedicated to the job (which, from previous posts he made, wasn't exactly a walk in the park). Things of course changed when they started to hire like crazy, culminating with the opening of the Frankfurt office (with all the Cryengine heads).

Second question: I think he gets a bit more in detail about that in a recent video segment he did. Try here (go to the 16m35s mark, "Ship inertia" question):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt4r3ksHXng#

And also here (from the 1m05s mark):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=165H_5jgE5g


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Speedy Cerviche on August 07, 2015, 08:31:38 AM
We might get to see the player "stations" inside a multicrew ship, where, in CIG's plans, each character can play a different role (one dedicated to  shields, another to systems, while another take care of the turrets and another one the main weapons, for example).

Who the hell wants to sit around staring at a shield monitoring screen for hours? In any other sci-fi game that has any kind of manual shield operation this can be handled with a few hotkeys. Do your shields not work properly if nobody is sitting with their avatar and operating the terminal? Does this player have to use KB + mouse to manually aim his avatar's fingers at the buttons it needs to push?




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on August 07, 2015, 08:34:50 AM
Does this player have to use KB + mouse to manually aim his avatar's fingers at the buttons it needs to push?

It will, but you have to buy the Fingers Founder's Pack.  :rimshot:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on August 07, 2015, 08:51:41 AM
We might get to see the player "stations" inside a multicrew ship, where, in CIG's plans, each character can play a different role (one dedicated to  shields, another to systems, while another take care of the turrets and another one the main weapons, for example).

Who the hell wants to sit around staring at a shield monitoring screen for hours? In any other sci-fi game that has any kind of manual shield operation this can be handled with a few hotkeys. Do your shields not work properly if nobody is sitting with their avatar and operating the terminal? Does this player have to use KB + mouse to manually aim his avatar's fingers at the buttons it needs to push?

Have the same doubts about the whole system, but let me speculate:

- All the sub-management aspect of the system is in full force only during combat situations, during which that management is required, just like with smaller ships. In other words, during "downtime", multicrew ships will probably function just as glorified chatrooms, no need to get bored out of your mind looking at screens;
- If you own a multicrew ship, but you are forever alone, you can hire NPCs to cover the other sub-systems (this is no speculation, they already said NPCs will have this function, see also the "Passenger line" mini-games)
- Complex sub-system management will probably be a thing for guild vs guild warfare (see EVE)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: koro on August 07, 2015, 08:57:26 AM
Does this player have to use KB + mouse to manually aim his avatar's fingers at the buttons it needs to push?

It will, but you have to buy the Fingers Founder's Pack.  :rimshot:

Don't forget six different Concept Rings, which you can pre-pre-purchase for only $200 per ring.

For just your left hand.

Right hand is a separate purchase.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on August 07, 2015, 09:07:22 AM
the transition to 64-bit addressing of the engine.

Dare I ask why they started out with 32-bit addressing?

Regarding your first question, I think Roberts always planned to eventually make the transition, but initially he simply lacked the manpower who could be fully dedicated to the job (which, from previous posts he made, wasn't exactly a walk in the park). Things of course changed when they started to hire like crazy, culminating with the opening of the Frankfurt office (with all the Cryengine heads).

Is the answer "because Cryengine was 32-bit"?  You'll have to forgive that I don't allocate a lot of storage for historic Star Citizen facts in my head.  Just seems like they must have known the desired scope before they decided to start writing code.  However, I could be very wrong.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: UnSub on August 07, 2015, 09:08:27 AM
We might get to see the player "stations" inside a multicrew ship, where, in CIG's plans, each character can play a different role (one dedicated to  shields, another to systems, while another take care of the turrets and another one the main weapons, for example).

Who the hell wants to sit around staring at a shield monitoring screen for hours? In any other sci-fi game that has any kind of manual shield operation this can be handled with a few hotkeys. Do your shields not work properly if nobody is sitting with their avatar and operating the terminal?

There's a group of people who think this sounds great.

It's a small group. It will probably end up with a lot of people macroing / botting, followed by bots being banned while Official Rob-Bots that fill the same role will be sold in-game as consumable items.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on August 07, 2015, 09:17:00 AM
the transition to 64-bit addressing of the engine.

Dare I ask why they started out with 32-bit addressing?

Regarding your first question, I think Roberts always planned to eventually make the transition, but initially he simply lacked the manpower who could be fully dedicated to the job (which, from previous posts he made, wasn't exactly a walk in the park). Things of course changed when they started to hire like crazy, culminating with the opening of the Frankfurt office (with all the Cryengine heads).

Is the answer "because Cryengine was 32-bit"?  You'll have to forgive that I don't allocate a lot of storage for historic Star Citizen facts in my head.  Just seems like they must have known the desired scope before they decided to start writing code.  However, I could be very wrong.

I don't know, really: maybe CryEngine has lots of potential and development "range" in some areas Roberts deemed as very important at the beginning of the project, while acknowledging some of its limits that, infact, his DevTeam eventually worked on later on (err, if that makes sense :P)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on August 07, 2015, 10:21:21 AM
We might get to see the player "stations" inside a multicrew ship, where, in CIG's plans, each character can play a different role (one dedicated to  shields, another to systems, while another take care of the turrets and another one the main weapons, for example).

Who the hell wants to sit around staring at a shield monitoring screen for hours? In any other sci-fi game that has any kind of manual shield operation this can be handled with a few hotkeys. Do your shields not work properly if nobody is sitting with their avatar and operating the terminal? Does this player have to use KB + mouse to manually aim his avatar's fingers at the buttons it needs to push?

Have the same doubts about the whole system, but let me speculate:

- All the sub-management aspect of the system is in full force only during combat situations, during which that management is required, just like with smaller ships. In other words, during "downtime", multicrew ships will probably function just as glorified chatrooms, no need to get bored out of your mind looking at screens;
- If you own a multicrew ship, but you are forever alone, you can hire NPCs to cover the other sub-systems (this is no speculation, they already said NPCs will have this function, see also the "Passenger line" mini-games)
- Complex sub-system management will probably be a thing for guild vs guild warfare (see EVE)

The problem with that speculation lies in #2.

Games like this exist and are supposedly fun (Guns of icarus or wahtever that game is) but if you can hire NPCs they either need to suck (in which case it will frustrate people because they need other players to do chores just to not waste their time) or the NPCs do ok enough but the mini-games have to be omg amazing fun that people actually want to do them on a regular basis.

Otherwise it's a waste of effort and no one will do it. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Job601 on August 07, 2015, 10:37:11 AM
Does anyone remember puzzle pirates?  It was a free to play mmo built around operating a pirate ship by playing various types of puzzles (match-3, shape sorting, etc.  Sword-fighting was sort of like puzzle fighter.)  My recollection is that the mini-games were legitimately fun


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on August 07, 2015, 11:32:20 AM
We might get to see the player "stations" inside a multicrew ship, where, in CIG's plans, each character can play a different role (one dedicated to  shields, another to systems, while another take care of the turrets and another one the main weapons, for example).

Who the hell wants to sit around staring at a shield monitoring screen for hours? In any other sci-fi game that has any kind of manual shield operation this can be handled with a few hotkeys. Do your shields not work properly if nobody is sitting with their avatar and operating the terminal? Does this player have to use KB + mouse to manually aim his avatar's fingers at the buttons it needs to push?

Have the same doubts about the whole system, but let me speculate:

- All the sub-management aspect of the system is in full force only during combat situations, during which that management is required, just like with smaller ships. In other words, during "downtime", multicrew ships will probably function just as glorified chatrooms, no need to get bored out of your mind looking at screens;
- If you own a multicrew ship, but you are forever alone, you can hire NPCs to cover the other sub-systems (this is no speculation, they already said NPCs will have this function, see also the "Passenger line" mini-games)
- Complex sub-system management will probably be a thing for guild vs guild warfare (see EVE)

The problem with that speculation lies in #2.

Games like this exist and are supposedly fun (Guns of icarus or wahtever that game is) but if you can hire NPCs they either need to suck (in which case it will frustrate people because they need other players to do chores just to not waste their time) or the NPCs do ok enough but the mini-games have to be omg amazing fun that people actually want to do them on a regular basis.

Otherwise it's a waste of effort and no one will do it.  

Yeah, NPCs will probably come with just preset behaviours depending on the combat situations while, with real players, you'll be able to "fine tune", so to speak. It's just a matter of implementation and testing, I guess: a multi-crew ship formed by a trained group of people (same guild, old time MMOG friends, etc.) should be able to shoot down a Single Player + NPC or a, let's say, PUG Multicrew ship almost everytime.

EDIT: in other news, presentation is underway:

http://www.twitch.tv/starcitizen


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on August 07, 2015, 11:40:27 AM
I need to do a comic where the punchline is "metastasizing scope cancer"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Speedy Cerviche on August 07, 2015, 12:06:09 PM
We might get to see the player "stations" inside a multicrew ship, where, in CIG's plans, each character can play a different role (one dedicated to  shields, another to systems, while another take care of the turrets and another one the main weapons, for example).

Who the hell wants to sit around staring at a shield monitoring screen for hours? In any other sci-fi game that has any kind of manual shield operation this can be handled with a few hotkeys. Do your shields not work properly if nobody is sitting with their avatar and operating the terminal? Does this player have to use KB + mouse to manually aim his avatar's fingers at the buttons it needs to push?

Have the same doubts about the whole system, but let me speculate:

- All the sub-management aspect of the system is in full force only during combat situations, during which that management is required, just like with smaller ships. In other words, during "downtime", multicrew ships will probably function just as glorified chatrooms, no need to get bored out of your mind looking at screens;
- If you own a multicrew ship, but you are forever alone, you can hire NPCs to cover the other sub-systems (this is no speculation, they already said NPCs will have this function, see also the "Passenger line" mini-games)
- Complex sub-system management will probably be a thing for guild vs guild warfare (see EVE)

The problem with that speculation lies in #2.

Games like this exist and are supposedly fun (Guns of icarus or wahtever that game is) but if you can hire NPCs they either need to suck (in which case it will frustrate people because they need other players to do chores just to not waste their time) or the NPCs do ok enough but the mini-games have to be omg amazing fun that people actually want to do them on a regular basis.

Otherwise it's a waste of effort and no one will do it.  

Yeah, NPCs will probably come with just preset behaviours depending on the combat situations while, with real players, you'll be able to "fine tune", so to speak. It's just a matter of implementation and testing, I guess: a multi-crew ship formed by a trained group of people (same guild, old time MMOG friends, etc.) should be able to shoot down a Single Player + NPC or a, let's say, PUG Multicrew ship almost everytime.

EDIT: in other news, presentation is underway:

http://www.twitch.tv/starcitizen

Why not just bring two ships instead of having a guy making one ship marginally more effective by staring at a shield tuning knob?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on August 07, 2015, 12:46:20 PM
Star Trek.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: justdave on August 07, 2015, 12:59:13 PM
Oooh, beat me to the punch. As was said above, there's a small group of people that want that (http://www.artemis.eochu.com/). Which explains the kickstarter, fetishes cost more.  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on August 07, 2015, 01:45:30 PM
Presentation ended a few minutes ago. The main highlight, shown at the very end, was the multicrew demo mentioned earlier. Here's the standalone, pre-recorded version. Enjoy :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZtEEAdEihg



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Viin on August 07, 2015, 04:26:26 PM
Are we sure this isn't Space Station Simulator 2525?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on August 07, 2015, 05:07:46 PM
So, I get the idea of a pilot and a gunner, that's nothing new.  But it wasn't really clear what was going on when they cut to the shots of the systems power/shields whatever.  PEW PEW PEW PEW, *cut to a guy looking at a screen*... yeah that's going to be a popular seat to sit in.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on August 07, 2015, 05:11:36 PM
And here's the so called "Planetside Module" they showed during the presentation (again, in this case, it's the pre-recorded, cleaner press footage) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc4oDwwD0oY

Roberts surprisingly announced that the first version of it will come out at the end of this month (yep, you read that right; so add a couple more months to that :P).

First version will be pretty basic: no NPCs and max. population per server will be max. 20 characters. (Hopefully) shortly after, the plan is start populating ArcCorp --> Area 18 with more NPCs with their own schedules and allow for more concurrent PCs.
---

One thing to keep in mind about the "planetside module" is this: it's not a "game inside a game" or just a PvP arena map like SM or AC, but a "real" location that will find its way in the final game (yeah, well...:P), so we'll actually get a chance to see the various features connected to it fleshed out (chat system, AR MobiGlass, buying/selling, conversation with NPCs, emotes, interacting with other players on the ground, interacting with objects and so on) as they put out patches.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 07, 2015, 05:56:02 PM
Why not just bring two ships instead of having a guy making one ship marginally more effective by staring at a shield tuning knob?

The same reason you would bring a destroyer over 5 dinghy. Firepower.

Ran across a good quote:

Quote
I'm sorry Mr. Roberts but you aren't going to convince us you're really building this game by actually doing it. Nice try though.

-Sincerely

The Angry Rabble.

There's a group of people who think this sounds great.

It's a small group. It will probably end up with a lot of people macroing / botting, followed by bots being banned while Official Rob-Bots that fill the same role will be sold in-game as consumable items.

Indeed.

938,372 backers with a total of 744,010 ships.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hutch on August 07, 2015, 08:32:12 PM
I need to do a comic where the punchline is "metastasizing scope cancer"

PANEL One:
Setting: Tropical Island of NoTriti

CHRIS ROBERTS enters the Doctor's Office. A PLAQUE inscribed with an M.D. from San Tropay Medical Bar and Villa hangs on the wall.
THE DOCTOR turns to face his new patient.

PANEL Two:
THE DOCTOR pulls off his latex facemask, revealing ETHAN HUNT.

PANEL Three:
Setting: The Pier
Hunt lassoos a passing SHARK, and rides it, carrying Roberts, towards the waiting IMF yacht.
As they bound over the waves, Roberts cries, "How did you find me?"


aaaand scene



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on August 07, 2015, 10:53:33 PM
Presentation ended a few minutes ago. The main highlight, shown at the very end, was the multicrew demo mentioned earlier. Here's the standalone, pre-recorded version. Enjoy :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZtEEAdEihg

Do the guys who are not piloting the ship really just sit there in the belly of the ship waiting for something to happen, after spending what looks like a good 5 minutes walking from their apartment to their transport ship?

The shield "gameplay" consists of all the fun of keeping buffs on players in an MMO raid?

 :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on August 08, 2015, 03:04:58 AM
Nice videos.

In a few months they'll have released two environments in which the player can move around. It'll turn into a game any day now!





Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on August 08, 2015, 03:07:06 AM
Presentation ended a few minutes ago. The main highlight, shown at the very end, was the multicrew demo mentioned earlier. Here's the standalone, pre-recorded version. Enjoy :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZtEEAdEihg

Do the guys who are not piloting the ship really just sit there in the belly of the ship waiting for something to happen, after spending what looks like a good 5 minutes walking from their apartment to their transport ship?

The shield "gameplay" consists of all the fun of keeping buffs on players in an MMO raid?

 :oh_i_see:

Regarding the first part, I think we played enough Multiplayer/MMO games to know things will play out quite differently: people running everywhere, yelling on voice chat about other ppl being late, others taking off the landing pad in advance, ramming ships Leroy Jenkins style, etc.   Then, there are players and roleplayers like me who like immersion and enjoy the vistas, so to speak. They'll cohexist (coexist?) just like in any other game.

We'll have to wait and see regarding the "downtime" before teh fun beginz: it looks like SC is aiming to have denser (and quicker to reach) adventure areas, so it's another approach compared to the "zen" experience E:D offers. And, like I said before, that downtime might be covered by ppl fooling around in chat/voice chat (even PUGs), so I don't necessarily see it as a problematic hurdle.

The Systems gameplay...yeah, after the novelty factor wears out, I suspect it might be a thing for guild vs guild or for complex PvE missions, if they'll ever exist (raids, in spaaaaace!). Just like in a raid, each one should contribute to the success of a mission while covering a particular role, no?

Now, beside that "high-end" goal, multicrew is also aimed to those players who want to have fun with their friends while sharing the same playing space, instead of being side by side in different ships....Which is fine too, IMO: infact, for those who'll despise multicrew, I hope CIG will implement a normal "grouping" system so that you can have wings and just fly together to the mission objective.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on August 08, 2015, 03:08:16 AM
Also saw a dude in another forum agonizing over where he can borrow a few hundred for the big ship sale thing they got going.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: K9 on August 08, 2015, 04:20:15 AM
Presentation ended a few minutes ago. The main highlight, shown at the very end, was the multicrew demo mentioned earlier. Here's the standalone, pre-recorded version. Enjoy :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZtEEAdEihg



That all looks pretty awesome I'll say; although a lot of it looks like the sort of stuff that's fun to do once or twice in a cinematic single player experience, but would become tiresome if it's a persistent online experience. Guess it's still wait and see though.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on August 08, 2015, 05:40:59 AM
A couple more things:

- Presentation also featured a demo of the FPS; there is no "clean footage", so you'll have to set for the always cringeworthy (unscripted and live) presentations CIG do in these occasions  :grin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls8VosErVSk (this is the full Gamescom presentation; FPS portion starts at the 35:26 mark with a brief intro by Roberts)

Animations still need a lot of work as well as the "impact" feeling when you're hit.

About the multicrew demo, during the first "live" take (they did it twice), the Constellation crew was actually too good and damaged the Quantum Drive, so that the Retaliator couldn't jump back to the station as planned.   :awesome_for_real:

- Before the presentation, they released the usual "Monthly Report" :
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14871-Monthly-Report

Here's a snippet regarding the Planetside locations, given both by the PU Team and BHVR (Behaviour Interactive):


BHVR:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: palmer_eldritch on August 08, 2015, 08:58:49 AM
A multi-crew ship should involve everyone sitting in their personal gunner's seat firing a big gun at people. "I got him!" "Great kid - don't get cocky!". Maybe one person is in the pilot's seat doing the steering and throttle and shields etc, on top of firing their gun.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on August 08, 2015, 12:44:15 PM
The past week they've been capping out at most $9k of funding per day.

The multi-crew stuff got them $427k in one day.

Ridiculous.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 08, 2015, 12:52:00 PM
Presentation ended a few minutes ago. The main highlight, shown at the very end, was the multicrew demo mentioned earlier. Here's the standalone, pre-recorded version. Enjoy :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZtEEAdEihg

Do the guys who are not piloting the ship really just sit there in the belly of the ship waiting for something to happen, after spending what looks like a good 5 minutes walking from their apartment to their transport ship?

The shield "gameplay" consists of all the fun of keeping buffs on players in an MMO raid?

 :oh_i_see:

Its a world, not a session based game. I would imagine you only really sit at that console when something is going on. On that ship, I believe that is also the bombardier controls, the Retaliator carries capital ship destroying torpedoes.

https://youtu.be/2AJswADTV0A?t=1h53m8s

Which is fine too, IMO: infact, for those who'll despise multicrew, I hope CIG will implement a normal "grouping" system so that you can have wings and just fly together to the mission objective.

That's basically a given, in fact the recycling crew in that video had two single seat fighters as escort.  The site already has organizations, basically guilds (90,000 as a mater of fact), with wings and other breakdowns/ranks/groupings to come.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: DraconianOne on August 08, 2015, 01:02:20 PM
A multi-crew ship should involve everyone sitting in their personal gunner's seat firing a big gun at people. "I got him!" "Great kid - don't get cocky!". Maybe one person is in the pilot's seat doing the steering and throttle and shields etc, on top of firing their gun.

Some of us remember the multi-crew experience from SWG doing exactly that in the YT-1300. Pilot, two gunners, other people running repairs around the ship.  It was cool in theory but all kinds of crap in practice. Mainly because the pilot would fly in such a way that the turret gunners couldn't ever get a decent shot off as they couldn't predict which way the pilot would be flying. (Also, motion sickness.) Basically, with a dorsal and ventral gunning position, the only way to be effective was for the pilot to fly in straight lines and avoid rolling. And of course, flying in a straight line meant you were an easier target...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 08, 2015, 01:04:03 PM
A multi-crew ship should involve everyone sitting in their personal gunner's seat firing a big gun at people. "I got him!" "Great kid - don't get cocky!". Maybe one person is in the pilot's seat doing the steering and throttle and shields etc, on top of firing their gun.

Some of us remember the multi-crew experience from SWG doing exactly that in the YT-1300. Pilot, two gunners, other people running repairs around the ship.  It was cool in theory but all kinds of crap in practice. Mainly because the pilot would fly in such a way that the turret gunners couldn't ever get a decent shot off as they couldn't predict which way the pilot would be flying. (Also, motion sickness.) Basically, with a dorsal and ventral gunning position, the only way to be effective was for the pilot to fly in straight lines and avoid rolling. And of course, flying in a straight line meant you were an easier target...

You just described the real life considerations for any turret equipped aircraft.  Some will enjoy it, some will want single set fighters, and that's OK too.

One thing to keep in mind about the "planetside module" is this: it's not a "game inside a game" or just a PvP arena map like SM or AC, but a "real" location that will find its way in the final game (yeah, well...:P), so we'll actually get a chance to see the various features connected to it fleshed out (chat system, AR MobiGlass, buying/selling, conversation with NPCs, emotes, interacting with other players on the ground, interacting with objects and so on) as they put out patches.

Yes. And I think this is an area they seem to fail at communicating, or at least, even "news" origination's seem to not understand. Many articles, and comments treat say, the FPS component as if its supposed to be a session based shooter. Initially, the module will be, for testing and balance, but that's not in any way was its for, it part of the core pillars of the game play.  If you came in cold, you could easily think that is a distinct separate part of the game, and I think they need to do better to clarify this. That, and the launch, the launch they are talking about is the PU launch, and that's still an alpha phase, not gold.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on August 08, 2015, 03:49:18 PM
Some of us remember the multi-crew experience from SWG doing exactly that in the YT-1300. Pilot, two gunners, other people running repairs around the ship.  It was cool in theory but all kinds of crap in practice. Mainly because the pilot would fly in such a way that the turret gunners couldn't ever get a decent shot off as they couldn't predict which way the pilot would be flying. (Also, motion sickness.) Basically, with a dorsal and ventral gunning position, the only way to be effective was for the pilot to fly in straight lines and avoid rolling. And of course, flying in a straight line meant you were an easier target...

This exactly describes the problem of multi-crew vehicles in video games. They sound great in practice, but if you aren't driving, you're likely cursing the fucking driver for not giving you a good firing platform. This happens to me in Battlefield 4 all the time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on August 08, 2015, 05:11:26 PM
I've had mostly good experiences multi-crewing in Planetside 2, but I am usually playing with friends and with VOIP.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Nija on August 09, 2015, 12:09:36 AM
Clearly the best multi crewing was in Tribes 2 with whatever that thing was with 4 mortar heavies on board.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Kail on August 09, 2015, 01:08:40 AM
I remember Allegiance handled it by giving all the non-pilot characters their own turret which had a full sphere of action around the ship which didn't spin or roll when the pilot did.  Hand waved away the lore problems by saying that the players were actually seeing a reconstruction from an array of small turrets and cameras placed on the ship's hull.  Probably wouldn't fit too well in with Star Citizen though, given their fixation on realism.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: DraconianOne on August 09, 2015, 09:54:43 AM
I remember Allegiance handled it by giving all the non-pilot characters their own turret which had a full sphere of action around the ship which didn't spin or roll when the pilot did.  Hand waved away the lore problems by saying that the players were actually seeing a reconstruction from an array of small turrets and cameras placed on the ship's hull.  Probably wouldn't fit too well in with Star Citizen though, given their fixation on realism.

Realism would be computer operated turrets that auto tracked targets and made adjustments for the pilots flying. This is a "hey, turrets and multiplayer crews could be cool and everyone loves that scene in Star Wars" type of realism. Manned turrets on planes went out at about the time of the Korean War because they'd been rendered ineffective by jet fighters.

But hey, yeah, it's a cool idea and perhaps they'll manage to make it fun and effective.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on August 09, 2015, 10:04:39 AM
Realism would be drones and missiles duking it out orders of magnitude beyond visual range, ship crews ensconced in fluid filled pods while the ship makes high g maneuvers on the edge of lethality.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: DraconianOne on August 09, 2015, 10:44:43 AM
Also true.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on August 09, 2015, 11:06:15 AM
I really do dig the WW2 romantic approach in a space sim too. But then you have to make up a reason why your turreted ship has to fly mostly in a straight line.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on August 09, 2015, 12:15:57 PM
Multicrew can be a lot of fun, if it's optional. It was the best feature of JTL in the Star Wars Galaxies era, and it works great in Planetside. I am would be looking forward to that.

Sadly, before even having a conversation about this, we should have -you know- the game become a real thing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on August 09, 2015, 01:12:59 PM
If the game play of the guy at the shield console is similar to raid healer gameplay, it shouldn't be an issue.  Plenty of people did it, including myself for several years.

I mean, I never saw wtf actually was happening in a raid.  Not the fight, explosions, story, or flow of combat.  All I saw was basically something like this:

(http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/images/wow_raid_interface.jpg)

And for some dumb reason still kept coming back for more.  So if they can at least keep it as engaging as being a healer in an MMO, it should be ok.  Big IF's though.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 09, 2015, 01:24:40 PM
Someone hit the nail earlier. While Star citizen is set in the future, under the skin, like all Chris Roberts games, this is WWII era influence.

Multicrew can be a lot of fun, if it's optional.

Its optional, in that if you dislike multi-crew, bring a fighter. Also, supposedly, Hireable NPC's with varying competencies.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on August 09, 2015, 01:43:15 PM
Someone hit the nail earlier. While Star citizen is set in the future, under the skin, like all Chris Roberts games, this is WWII era influence.

Multicrew can be a lot of fun, if it's optional.

Its optional, in that if you dislike multi-crew, bring a fighter. Also, supposedly, Hireable NPC's with varying competencies.
It's not Chris Roberts, its the foundation of Sci-fi going back to the 40's and 50's (ww2 era).  Lots of books back then portraying space battles in terms of naval tactics at the time.  Star Wars was the biggest success with the most pop culture influence to make it to the big screens after that era.  Star Wars is nothing but WW2 in space.  Guys in huge battle ships shooting god damn laser flack at incoming enemy fighters they are tracking with their naked eyes.  Single man fighter jets doing bombing runs on enemy ships as the laser flack magically explodes around them and causes turbulence.  Its had a pretty profound impact on all media (movies, tv, and games) since it was a hit, these games included.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on August 09, 2015, 01:52:41 PM
Jesus Christ, Teleku... that raid screenshot.  :ye_gods:

How is Star Citizen going to give loot to entice people to waste time doing shit like that?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: palmer_eldritch on August 09, 2015, 03:38:56 PM
Make it purple


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 09, 2015, 03:50:19 PM
It's not Chris Roberts, its the foundation of Sci-fi going back to the 40's and 50's (ww2 era).  Lots of books back then portraying space battles in terms of naval tactics at the time.  Star Wars was the biggest success with the most pop culture influence to make it to the big screens after that era.  Star Wars is nothing but WW2 in space.  Guys in huge battle ships shooting god damn laser flack at incoming enemy fighters they are tracking with their naked eyes.  Single man fighter jets doing bombing runs on enemy ships as the laser flack magically explodes around them and causes turbulence.  Its had a pretty profound impact on all media (movies, tv, and games) since it was a hit, these games included.

I didn't say he invented it, I said all his games have the influence. Hence we have turret equipped spacecraft and max speed limits and torpedoes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 09, 2015, 04:06:07 PM
How is Star Citizen going to give loot to entice people to waste time doing shit like that?

For you: Linky (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14804-Design-Civilian-Passenger-Transport)  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on August 09, 2015, 04:36:30 PM
Anyone building a turret fighting game needs to look very hard at Guns of Icarus.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on August 09, 2015, 04:50:32 PM
Just for reference, here's one of the original design docs about the multicrew stations (dated December 2014):

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14354-Letter-From-The-Chairman-Multi-Crew-Ship-Systems

Ignore the initial Letter from the Chairman and scroll down 'til "Multi-crew ship systems".
---

I think it will definitely get trimmed down, anyway. They will get feedback once they put in Arena Commander 2.0, currently planned "shortly after CitizenCon" (October 10th), although in a much more limited environment.

Yeah, regarding limiting you and your friend to pew pew away, why not, at least for routine PvE missions: one player piloting and shooting, his two friends manning the turrents, one poor NPC doing the dirty "screen" work. Happy blasting :D

By the way, at CitizenCon, Roberts should unveil the full cast for S42 (maybe the opening cinematic too?): latest rumors include Andy Serkis, beside fan-favorite Mark Hamill.

LOL at that Raid screen, and yeah, I used Grid too  :why_so_serious:

E:D is showing that the race for the next big ship and amassing obscene quantities of money just doesn't work in a multiplayer environment nowadays, it's not enough. But, like E:D, Star Citizen won't feature a leveling system for characters, nor a skill system, going down the "profession/career" route just like its more direct competitor. So, yeah, there are many doubts about that approach, especially if the "it's up to the players to create their own stories/content" mindset is not supported by the gameplay (EVE).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on August 09, 2015, 05:13:10 PM
Jesus Christ, Teleku... that raid screenshot.  :ye_gods:

His fault for playing a Paladin on a laptop. Dat screenres.

Also, wtf did he not turn off group frame when in a raid?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on August 09, 2015, 05:28:15 PM
Can't remember if I posted something about it when it originally came out, but anyway: George Oldziey, the main composer of the Wing Commander saga, completed his KS project and released the orchestral recording of music from WC 3 and 4:

link to .zip file (http://download.wcnews.com/oldziey/wing_commander_orchestral_album_hq.zip)

EDIT: Whoops, password to extract the files is...
Here's a 24 minute "making of" video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4OsjTqU4w8

...And, posted by Oldziey himself, the original WC4 intro sequence with the new, orchestral recording :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMmuqtpptng

A must see (and listen) for any Wing Commander fan out there :)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on August 09, 2015, 05:30:56 PM
Jesus Christ, Teleku... that raid screenshot.  :ye_gods:

His fault for playing a Paladin on a laptop. Dat screenres.

Also, wtf did he not turn off group frame when in a raid?

Err...NM.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on August 09, 2015, 06:59:45 PM
How is Star Citizen going to give loot to entice people to waste time doing shit like that?

For you: Linky (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14804-Design-Civilian-Passenger-Transport)  :awesome_for_real:

Right, so you are basically saying Star Citizen players will be fucking idiots. Gotcha.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on August 09, 2015, 10:32:28 PM
Jesus Christ, Teleku... that raid screenshot.  :ye_gods:

His fault for playing a Paladin on a laptop. Dat screenres.

Also, wtf did he not turn off group frame when in a raid?
That's not my screenshot, I just nabbed it from the Internet.  Partly for comedy, but the way my own screen as a healer during a raid looked wasn't that much different.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Der Helm on August 10, 2015, 08:26:35 AM
How is Star Citizen going to give loot to entice people to waste time doing shit like that?

For you: Linky (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14804-Design-Civilian-Passenger-Transport)  :awesome_for_real:

Right, so you are basically saying Star Citizen players will be fucking idiots. Gotcha.
I tried to get to that but when it came to "fixing" entertainment system and mixing drinks I could not make myself read further...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on August 10, 2015, 08:31:34 AM
Jesus Christ, Teleku... that raid screenshot.  :ye_gods:

His fault for playing a Paladin on a laptop. Dat screenres.

Also, wtf did he not turn off group frame when in a raid?
That's not my screenshot, I just nabbed it from the Internet.  Partly for comedy, but the way my own screen as a healer during a raid looked wasn't that much different.

Yeah I didn't think it was, the "his" is the player in question. He's got Pally Power running and the icons are so clumped as to indicate a laptop or really shitty graphics processor so he downscaled his screen res.

Yes, it's a disease.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on August 10, 2015, 08:39:54 AM
That screenshot reminded me of needing reagents for raid buffs.  Do they still do that in WoW? 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on August 10, 2015, 08:48:10 AM
Space sims pretty much have to be early era themed in terms of battle mechanics. Air combat simulator 2015 would be a pilot confirming a signature many miles outside of visual range twice with a command person, then launching a missile at it, then confirming the dot disappeared, then going home on a planned trajectory, then hours of debriefing.

Space combat would likely just be AIs shooting at other AIs at incredible distances where human input would be next to useless


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on August 10, 2015, 08:51:59 AM
That screenshot reminded me of needing reagents for raid buffs.  Do they still do that in WoW? 
Thankfully, no.

However, buffs are so trivial to cast anymore due to mana usage & duration that they should just be Auras like Marvel heroes. Grab someone with the right one and it auto-applies to the group instead of "remember to press this button because Joe-Jackass was out of range when you pressed it 15 seconds ago."

Yet another indicator of how far Blizzard has fallen because they haven't snagged that mechanic.

Space sims pretty much have to be early era themed in terms of battle mechanics. Air combat simulator 2015 would be a pilot confirming a signature many miles outside of visual range twice with a command person, then launching a missile at it, then confirming the dot disappeared, then going home on a planned trajectory, then hours of debriefing.

Space combat would likely just be AIs shooting at other AIs at incredible distances where human input would be next to useless

Yes, because reality is far fewer humans involved in ANYTHING in the near future, much less the far future.

However, since there's hordes of people willing to sign-up and be passengers, apparently, why not push that gameplay anyway. "I'm programming my drone for this set of scenarios" is more engaging than "I got to sit around for 4 hours during prep but then my landing/ boarding ship was exploded and I was out of the fight."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on August 10, 2015, 09:24:04 AM
Such an odd collection of cool looking stuff and awkward doctor's waiting room. The slow walking was painful.

But the controller movement on foot makes for such terrible video. Hopefully they make it so you can hybrid, use a gamepad for flying and keyb/m for foot controls.

No pony in the race, but it does look like it could be cool but probably won't because the voices they are listening to are fetishists.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on August 10, 2015, 10:55:41 AM
I tried to get to that but when it came to "fixing" entertainment system and mixing drinks I could not make myself read further...

Holy shit, you weren't joking.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on August 10, 2015, 04:07:54 PM
"It's a simulation, not a game!"

People wonder why I aggressively hate the idea of MMO-as-sim. this is why. This is what people were aching for all these years.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on August 11, 2015, 12:25:43 AM
inb4 paying bartender to drug entire roster's drinks prior to ambush at star sector Gemini.
We can take this all the way Chris. ALLLL THE WAYYY.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on August 11, 2015, 01:55:41 AM
Right, so you are basically saying Star Citizen players will be fucking idiots. Gotcha.
Thought that was established the moment they made selling virtual spaceships for 50+ bucks a pop a viable strategy :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on August 11, 2015, 03:56:42 AM
inb4 paying bartender to drug entire roster's drinks prior to ambush at star sector Gemini.
We can take this all the way Chris. ALLLL THE WAYYY.

See? That's the right mentality!!  :drill:

I really don't understand you guys: first you complain about "downtime", then consider a mixin' drink minigame that will get you drunk as a waste of time.

People these days  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Speedy Cerviche on August 11, 2015, 06:32:26 AM

Space sims pretty much have to be early era themed in terms of battle mechanics. Air combat simulator 2015 would be a pilot confirming a signature many miles outside of visual range twice with a command person, then launching a missile at it, then confirming the dot disappeared, then going home on a planned trajectory, then hours of debriefing.

Space combat would likely just be AIs shooting at other AIs at incredible distances where human input would be next to useless

Yes, because reality is far fewer humans involved in ANYTHING in the near future, much less the far future.

I always thought that Dune solved that one reasonably. No lasers and missiles because everyone has shields so they are useless, and hitting a shield with a laser will cause a massive explosion and kill everyone nearby. Also there's no robots because we destroyed them all and they are forbidden.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on August 11, 2015, 07:01:27 AM
I really don't understand you guys: first you complain about "downtime", then consider a mixin' drink minigame that will get you drunk as a waste of time.

People these days  :why_so_serious:
Remember that time in Wing Commander when you sat around in the transport ship for 5 minutes and then spent the entire mission pouring drinks?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on August 11, 2015, 12:34:31 PM
I really don't understand you guys: first you complain about "downtime", then consider a mixin' drink minigame that will get you drunk as a waste of time.

People these days  :why_so_serious:
Remember that time in Wing Commander when you sat around in the transport ship for 5 minutes and then spent the entire mission pouring drinks?

Ok, ok! But....:

(http://blog.truffleshuffle.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Top-Gun-Bar-Scene.jpg)

See? They should implement a karaoke minigame at the "G-Loc" (bar shown in the social module demo) !!!!

Also:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmfd9etbXGE

Quality downtime!!!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on August 11, 2015, 01:04:38 PM
(http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/3299198528737702912/FE6443A4879B1F9446072C10935AA0E3E95AECEE/1024x576.resizedimage)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tannhauser on August 11, 2015, 04:52:08 PM
Oh wow, that's great!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on August 11, 2015, 06:23:59 PM
Chris Roberts: Game Commander (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=165H_5jgE5g) (Loose Brief on the Milti-grid tech)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on August 12, 2015, 06:05:30 AM
Oh wow, that's great!

It's even better than that, I just didn't find an image of the volleyball court.

Back to Star Shitizen.  The producers have apparently stopped the whole crazy doctor subplot, which I actually thought was going to grow into a new villain.  Why introduce characters and then abandon them?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on August 12, 2015, 06:08:15 AM
Oh wow, that's great!

It's even better than that, I just didn't find an image of the volleyball court.

Back to Star Shitizen.  The producers have apparently stopped the whole crazy doctor subplot, which I actually thought was going to grow into a new villain.  Why introduce characters and then abandon them?

Err, I'm a bit at loss, here: what are you talking about?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Xuri on August 12, 2015, 06:11:40 AM
Crazy doctor subplot.. hmz.. are you talking about Mr. Dmart? :P


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on August 12, 2015, 06:55:54 AM
Yes.  I can't remember the actor that plays him.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rasix on August 12, 2015, 11:57:00 AM
Lawrence Fishburne.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on August 12, 2015, 03:04:10 PM
Back to Star Shitizen.  The producers have apparently stopped the whole crazy doctor subplot, which I actually thought was going to grow into a new villain.  Why introduce characters and then abandon them?
Oh, he is still at it (http://www.dereksmart.org/2015/08/interstellar-raiders/). This thread just got too distracted with virtual drink mixing to notice.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on August 13, 2015, 06:41:04 AM
good lord

he is pathologically defensive about any comparisons to his games, while also blowing a few gaskets extraa


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: DraconianOne on August 20, 2015, 02:24:58 PM
Some Star Citizen backers who claim full pledge refunds are getting their money back (http://www.polygon.com/2015/8/20/9180067/star-citizen-backers-claiming-refunds-are-getting-their-money-back)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on August 24, 2015, 08:36:32 AM
Serek Dmart ups the ante...and the crazy. :awesome_for_real:

http://www.mmorpg.com/mobile/news.cfm?read=36059&ismb=1


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Shannow on August 24, 2015, 10:17:30 AM
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Triax on August 24, 2015, 10:32:39 AM
WITNESS!!!   :uhrr: :drill: :uhrr: :drill:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Montague on August 24, 2015, 10:53:24 AM
Part of me hopes DS succeeds and brings down this Ponzi scheme of a game. The downside is of course that he'll become even more insufferable, if that's even possible.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on August 24, 2015, 11:01:38 AM
If anyone can find a way, it's the good Doctor.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Xuri on August 24, 2015, 11:21:37 AM
Quote
"You have allowed scope creep and feature cuts....<snip>"
:headscratch:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MahrinSkel on August 24, 2015, 11:58:14 AM
Quote
"You have allowed scope creep and feature cuts....<snip>"
:headscratch:
If I am reading it right, they mean that major features that were promised in the Kickstarter have been cut or dramatically scaled back, while a whole bunch of other things have been added. Which is to a degree par for the course in any game, but SC does seem to have taken it to a whole new level.

--Dave


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on August 25, 2015, 03:24:12 AM
It's ok if you cant see that though, as SD has managed to shove copies of his own shitty games and his own artistically formed and perfect buttocks in the way.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on August 28, 2015, 06:18:00 PM
Soooo....

The Planetside/Social module has been released on the public server:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14927-Welcome-To-ArcCorp-Star-Citizen-12-Released

It's a tiny little 30GB download  :grin: :grin: . Will take me a while on my 7Mbit ADSL :P
---

As previewed during Gamescom, it features the very first planetside/landing location, ArcCorp, located in the Stanton System. Here's a bit of lore for you:

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/j1dvav3eyrvlwr/source/ArcCorp_a5.jpg)

The Stanton System (where ArcCorp is, together with other planets owned by MegaCorps. ArcCorp is on Stanton III):
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/13141-Stanton-System

ArcCorp itself (company and planet lore):
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/14556-ArcCorp

Anyway, what's more interesting, is the outline for the module, explained by the Director for the PU, Tony Zurovec (scroll down just a bit):
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14927-Welcome-To-ArcCorp-Star-Citizen-12-Released

Very interesting read if you take a few minutes to read it, looks like they have a solid enough plan.

Nice video preview of the Nyx landing zone (Nyx is a much more pirate/outlaw location):
https://vimeo.com/137655209

Just a single piece of "look and feel" concept art for Microtech (Stanton I), another planetside/landing location they're working on:

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/yk0ax3z7sd598r/source/MicroTech_LookFeel_Concept_01.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Viin on August 28, 2015, 07:07:29 PM
For shit and giggles, do we have an F13 org?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on August 28, 2015, 08:05:32 PM
Sure, our ship name is the HMS Not Sure If Serious.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on August 28, 2015, 11:21:40 PM
<Fat Country>


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on August 29, 2015, 12:37:06 AM
More like <Splat Country>


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on August 29, 2015, 02:41:17 AM
<Fat Country>
Heh, nice.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on August 29, 2015, 05:59:23 AM
Like I said to Schild a while back, If you want I can create the Org and fill in the various info they require when you do the initial setup (as well as accepting new members and stuff).

Beside the actual name, a "SID" is required (Spectrum ID): SID is unique and at least 3 characters (letters and number combinations are allowed) long. It could be the name of this [insert your definition of
this place here :D] or anything else, if you don't want to explicity link this website with the game in any form.
----

Anyway, yesterday night, some more stuff was released:

AEGIS Vanguard ship variants announced:
click here for ship porn (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14915-Vanguards-And-Then-There-Were-Three)

Design document: Electronic Warfare (how they're designing signature management, offense, defense, scanning etc.)
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14926-Design-Notes-Electronic-Warfare

FPS weekly update (also includes some pics and two brief videos):
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14925-Star-Marine-Status-Update




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Nija on August 29, 2015, 09:22:35 AM
Do we need to stage an intervention?!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on August 29, 2015, 09:33:45 AM
I can physically get to Lucas in a couple of hours.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on August 29, 2015, 11:20:46 AM
I can physically get to Lucas in a couple of hours.

 lemme alone :(

(http://images.dailykos.com/images/144506/large/chris_crocker_leave_britney_alone_1_.jpg?1432233239)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Xuri on August 29, 2015, 02:06:36 PM
I'll join your Org, Lucas. Unless I decide to make a (fake? are all fake? are none?) religion. Hm.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: palmer_eldritch on August 29, 2015, 04:24:35 PM
I can see how people would get excited by this. I just wish it had a traditional funding model.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on August 29, 2015, 05:45:29 PM
I wish it had a traditional release date.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on August 30, 2015, 02:49:03 AM
I wish it had a traditional release date.

It does, but it's of the Duke Nukem Forever school of traditional.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on August 30, 2015, 02:57:00 AM
So we can expect a 2022 release of Star Citizen?  Hmm, they're doing better than I thought.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Viin on August 30, 2015, 01:27:23 PM
I'm on a domestic flight in New Zealand and I just saw a guy with a Star Citizen tshirt on. Couldn't tell if he was kiwi or not.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on August 30, 2015, 02:31:52 PM
Was he mixing drinks, or handling the onboard movie selection?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on August 30, 2015, 02:33:13 PM
Was he mixing drinks, or handling the onboard movie selection?

Nice  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on August 30, 2015, 07:08:40 PM
Probably serving as ballast.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 01, 2015, 05:12:51 PM


10 for the Chairman: Episode 60 (https://youtu.be/e1Mkcq160cE?t=1h2m29s)

I Cut to the part that I feel directly relates to most criticism.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on September 01, 2015, 06:18:15 PM
Here is a better interview.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf31MzNgnNk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf31MzNgnNk)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on September 03, 2015, 03:38:02 PM
So, looks like that guy received an answer from CIG legal department. I'll just quote the only paragraph that guy quotes inside the "twitlonger" post (I'll leave to you the pleasure of reading the entire thing):

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snct8k (EDIT: that link is dead, new one is: http://www.dereksmart.org/2015/08/interstellar-breach/comment-page-1/#comment-1624 )

Quote
"Your client's defamatory claims are entirely without merit and include unfounded allegations that the funds raised for the project were used improperly, even fraudulently. In this vain, your client is now asking for a "forensic accounting" to be made available to him. Firstly, there is obviously no legal basis for your client's request and your letter cites no such authority. Secondly, the ample information provided regularly on our extensive website, including monthly progress reports from each studio, published headcounts and the like, would enable any person familiar with the cost of game development to assess the proper spending of the funds raised. Your client claims to be such an experienced person, so we are a bit perplexed about this demand coming in particular from him.
...
In sum, your client's allegations and demands are completely without basis and hereby rejected in their entirety."

Now, of course SD is saying that he never lost a legal battle, that he'll destroy everything and everyone but I get the vague impression that he's gonna fall flat on his face with this one.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Montague on September 04, 2015, 11:08:46 AM
So, looks like that guy received an answer from CIG legal department. I'll just quote the only paragraph that guy quotes inside the "twitlonger" post (I'll leave to you the pleasure of reading the entire thing):

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snct8k (EDIT: that link is dead, new one is: http://www.dereksmart.org/2015/08/interstellar-breach/comment-page-1/#comment-1624 )

Quote
"Your client's defamatory claims are entirely without merit and include unfounded allegations that the funds raised for the project were used improperly, even fraudulently. In this vain, your client is now asking for a "forensic accounting" to be made available to him. Firstly, there is obviously no legal basis for your client's request and your letter cites no such authority. Secondly, the ample information provided regularly on our extensive website, including monthly progress reports from each studio, published headcounts and the like, would enable any person familiar with the cost of game development to assess the proper spending of the funds raised. Your client claims to be such an experienced person, so we are a bit perplexed about this demand coming in particular from him.
...
In sum, your client's allegations and demands are completely without basis and hereby rejected in their entirety."

Now, of course SD is saying that he never lost a legal battle, that he'll destroy everything and everyone but I get the vague impression that he's gonna fall flat on his face with this one.

The misspelling and the personal tone of that quote lead me to wonder if that was really drafted by an attorney, and if so how competent he/she is.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on September 10, 2015, 12:25:02 PM
I took out some of the legalese for us laypeople. (http://www.gizoogle.net/tranzizzle.php?search=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dereksmart.org%2F2015%2F08%2Finterstellar-breach%2F%23comment-1624&se=Go+Git+Dis+Shiznit)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on September 10, 2015, 02:34:47 PM
When did Snoop Lion get into the search engine bidness?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on September 10, 2015, 07:22:17 PM
The struggle is real.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Triforcer on September 10, 2015, 07:50:44 PM
So, looks like that guy received an answer from CIG legal department. I'll just quote the only paragraph that guy quotes inside the "twitlonger" post (I'll leave to you the pleasure of reading the entire thing):

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snct8k (EDIT: that link is dead, new one is: http://www.dereksmart.org/2015/08/interstellar-breach/comment-page-1/#comment-1624 )

Quote
"Your client's defamatory claims are entirely without merit and include unfounded allegations that the funds raised for the project were used improperly, even fraudulently. In this vain, your client is now asking for a "forensic accounting" to be made available to him. Firstly, there is obviously no legal basis for your client's request and your letter cites no such authority. Secondly, the ample information provided regularly on our extensive website, including monthly progress reports from each studio, published headcounts and the like, would enable any person familiar with the cost of game development to assess the proper spending of the funds raised. Your client claims to be such an experienced person, so we are a bit perplexed about this demand coming in particular from him.
...
In sum, your client's allegations and demands are completely without basis and hereby rejected in their entirety."

Now, of course SD is saying that he never lost a legal battle, that he'll destroy everything and everyone but I get the vague impression that he's gonna fall flat on his face with this one.

The misspelling and the personal tone of that quote lead me to wonder if that was really drafted by an attorney, and if so how competent he/she is.

It is likely from an "attorney" in the sense that they paid an unemployed recent Tier 4 law school graduate 100 bucks to write it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rasix on September 10, 2015, 11:05:54 PM
Hard to find good help when you're paying in digital ships.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on September 11, 2015, 01:18:09 AM
Elon Musk is way ahead of Chris Roberts. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjSb_b4TtxI) Problem is, his real space ship is way more ready for real space flight (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1EB5BQpm7w) than Roberts' fake space ship for fake space flight.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Shannow on September 11, 2015, 08:29:32 AM
Pfft, they rendered the shit out of that footage.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on September 12, 2015, 07:35:45 PM
Elon Musk is way ahead of Chris Roberts. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjSb_b4TtxI) Problem is, his real space ship is way more ready for real space flight (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1EB5BQpm7w) than Roberts' fake space ship for fake space flight.
Just wait till first passengers on the first launch find themselves rendered outside of the ship and in the real space because they didn't work out the 32bit floats precision issues, like Roberts' crew did.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on September 16, 2015, 05:22:31 PM
Pedro Macedo Camacho (main composer of SC) just posted what appears to be a more or less "final" version of the Star Citizen Main Theme on his YT channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poG3Wvb8FU8


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: stray on September 16, 2015, 05:42:22 PM
Ugh, both Roberts and Schafer were my favorite game industry names to drop back in the day. How the mighty have fallen.


Even Serek Dmart is laughing.

Serek Dmart.

Derek Sm....


Wait, nevermind.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on September 22, 2015, 09:49:15 AM
So, SD just posted his latest straight-to-the-point, absolutely not digressive rant about Star Citizen:

http://www.dereksmart.org/2015/09/star-citizen-the-long-con/

Among the other things (no, you won't get a tl;dr version  :why_so_serious:), he posted the full version of the letter he got from RSI, and, well, I'm not THAT sure it was a TRAMS move by him:

http://imgur.com/a/sAFXW

In the rant he posted, he defends himself about some of the "issues" brought up in the letter, such ass...err, as, the failed mail address, tax liens, bankruptcy etc.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on September 22, 2015, 12:19:55 PM
This fucking thing is 3 years old now. Ugh.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on September 22, 2015, 01:13:15 PM
Agree.  Needs an expansion to hold my interest.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on September 22, 2015, 02:48:57 PM
Agree.  Needs an expansion to hold my interest.
SD was the expansion. People blow through the content way too quick nowadays.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on September 22, 2015, 02:55:01 PM
So, SD just posted his latest straight-to-the-point, absolutely not digressive rant about Star Citizen:

http://www.dereksmart.org/2015/09/star-citizen-the-long-con/

Among the other things (no, you won't get a tl;dr version  :why_so_serious:), he posted the full version of the letter he got from RSI, and, well, I'm not THAT sure it was a TRAMS move by him:

http://imgur.com/a/sAFXW

In the rant he posted, he defends himself about some of the "issues" brought up in the letter, such ass...err, as, the failed mail address, tax liens, bankruptcy etc.


Man, what the fuck.  ALLLLLL these people are fucking retards.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on September 22, 2015, 07:43:35 PM
I really could only have dreamed I would have gotten this much entertainment from this project. Everything is just gravy at this point.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on September 23, 2015, 09:32:37 AM
Agree.  Needs an expansion to hold my interest.
SD was the expansion. People blow through the content way too quick nowadays.

Man, I'd call that a content pack.  Sure, there was a story but it was super short and the ending was phoned in.  We are just supposed to play the same event over and over.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on September 24, 2015, 10:23:44 AM
I guess smart has bitten back at the CIG letter but in so doing I don't think he actually actively, uh, denied some of the things that CIG accused him of doing.

Confirm/deny? I mean, smart is obsessive enough to go to town on them on anything he thinks he could actively refute so what does it mean if he doesn't defend himself from that they noticed he never downloaded the game or whatever


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Nija on September 24, 2015, 04:12:32 PM
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snh7pg

I have had Serek Dmart on facebook for a few months. It's been a good few months.

I can't read everything he produces, but it's just all amazing.

This Star Citizen stuff he's unearthing is going to make me forgive him for everything he did in the 90s.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on September 25, 2015, 01:38:22 AM
Seems like James Pugh (Community Manager) has been fired for real. Something's moving there.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on September 25, 2015, 01:59:06 AM
So, Smart only figured out back in July this was bullshit. Took him literally 22 months longer than me.

Isn't he supposed to be in mensa?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on September 25, 2015, 03:04:27 AM
According to Smart they are almost out of money.

God...I hope so much that this is true. No offense to you suckers who gave them cash but man that would be so amusing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on September 25, 2015, 06:43:41 AM
According to Smart they are almost out of money.

God...I hope so much that this is true. No offense to you suckers who gave them cash but man that would be so amusing.
I don't get this attitude.

I hope that somehow they manage to make an amazing space combat sim despite all the soda jerking. Why wouldn't we hope for a good game? Not saying there's a decent chance it will happen, but wouldn't you rather play an awesome game than sit around and tear people down?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mithas on September 25, 2015, 07:14:27 AM
but wouldn't you rather play an awesome game than sit around and tear people down?

Um. This is f13.net right?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on September 25, 2015, 07:21:50 AM
but wouldn't you rather play an awesome game than sit around and tear people down?

Um. This is f13.net right?
I thought folks had grown up by now  :drillf:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Shannow on September 25, 2015, 07:27:53 AM
According to Smart they are almost out of money.

God...I hope so much that this is true. No offense to you suckers who gave them cash but man that would be so amusing.
I don't get this attitude.

I hope that somehow they manage to make an amazing space combat sim despite all the soda jerking. Why wouldn't we hope for a good game? Not saying there's a decent chance it will happen, but wouldn't you rather play an awesome game than sit around and tear people down?

I think because they promised an awesome game and it's fairly obvious they are not going to deliver. For that they deserve to crash and burn.
Also its f13


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on September 25, 2015, 07:30:02 AM
Also, we just like to cover our bases.  If it is a good game, great.  If it is an utter failure, GREAT.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hoax on September 25, 2015, 08:48:13 AM
Hell now I love space but honestly anything less than robot raptor jesus version of eve wouldn't be worth more to me than this game actually running out of money before they make a game.

That would be fucking amazing. I just oh god the tears of all those morons who spent $5k+ it'd just be so good. SC ships are good investment oh man please please please let them run out of money.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on September 25, 2015, 08:59:23 AM
I've seen what SC has done to some people in real life. While it was the dudes own fault, I kind of want RSI to suffer some too, for their predatory practice of taking advantage of easy marks.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Viin on September 25, 2015, 09:39:30 AM
Isn't that capitalism in a nutshell?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on September 25, 2015, 09:39:46 AM
My desire for a good game is overrode by my desire to see assgoblins who sell $18k digital ships for a game that isn't released and may never be finished to rubes too fucking stupid/OCD to say no.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on September 25, 2015, 09:41:26 AM
I've seen what SC has done to some people in real life. While it was the dudes own fault, I kind of want RSI to suffer some too, for their predatory practice of taking advantage of easy marks.
That's just smart capitalism. Trying to stop people from taking advantage of other people is how we got sold out to the Chinese.

I know a guy who got fucked over by EQ (and ebay). You know what? Fuck that guy.

The fact that it's getting massive funding from people spending so much on video game bobbins is hilarious, but I still hope to see a good game out of it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on September 25, 2015, 09:42:19 AM
I think this must have gone so far along the capitalism scale that it has wrapped around to socialism again.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on September 25, 2015, 01:29:54 PM
Surely we didn't pass over slavery yet and debtor's prison?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on September 25, 2015, 01:51:41 PM
I think this must have gone so far along the capitalism scale that it has wrapped around to socialism again.
Aw naw, this be peanuts compared to real capitalism, homey.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on September 25, 2015, 02:06:27 PM
Well this thread sure is paying dividends.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on September 25, 2015, 02:26:30 PM
According to Smart they are almost out of money.

God...I hope so much that this is true. No offense to you suckers who gave them cash but man that would be so amusing.
I don't get this attitude.

I hope that somehow they manage to make an amazing space combat sim despite all the soda jerking. Why wouldn't we hope for a good game? Not saying there's a decent chance it will happen, but wouldn't you rather play an awesome game than sit around and tear people down?

If their kickstarter was to give everyone who backed it a Unicorn it would be great if they somehow delivered but I wouldn't be entertaining the idea that it's possible. Normally I'd agree with your sentiment but to me there hasn't been the slightest shred of evidence suggesting they can pull this off.

I've seen what SC has done to some people in real life. While it was the dudes own fault, I kind of want RSI to suffer some too, for their predatory practice of taking advantage of easy marks.

Sadly there are a lot of people who don't even care if they get taken advantage of. (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3m9s0v/why_i_dont_expect_anything_in_exchange_for_the/) The number of people in the linked thread who have spent hundreds or thousands of dollars who say they don't care if they ever get a game is somewhat sickening.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on September 25, 2015, 02:52:21 PM
I will gloat if it fails for a few reasons:

1. I think it's very abusive and takes advantage of people in a way that would make scummy F2P mobile people blush.

2. I think it has been designed to fail, and I think a project that is designed to fail should fail, to teach everyone important lessons about game development, outlandish promises, etc

3. If it fails the hand-wringing and backlash will be amazing and I will enjoy reading it

That said I get that it would be cool if people got a great game, and I don't want individual RSI workers to go on welfare or something. In a perfect world it would fail but then Elite would become super awesome.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on September 25, 2015, 03:54:43 PM
elite is probably going to hit a hard cap of quality soon. I wish the genre wasn't so parched that many hopes for it are riding on SC.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Severian on September 25, 2015, 04:58:45 PM
At Polygon: Star Citizen is reorganizing its teams, not conducting layoffs (http://www.polygon.com/2015/9/25/9399345/star-citizen-is-reorganizing-its-teams-not-conducting-layoffs)

Quote from: Cloud Imperium Games
"...we have been reviewing how to optimize our development process"



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on September 25, 2015, 06:52:14 PM
TL;DR: "We aren't laying people off, we are instead merely laying people off."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on September 25, 2015, 09:28:30 PM
"Each of our four offices is being streamlined"


Uh huh.  I see.  Has this phrase ever been used to describe anything BUT people being laid off for financial reasons?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on September 25, 2015, 09:56:38 PM
The very definition of streamlining something financial is to make it more efficient, usually by trimming unnecessary assets. So, no. It means people being laid off for financial reasons.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on September 26, 2015, 02:03:19 AM
Not sure if Bloodworth, but here's some more scuttlebutt:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3lyfb1/david_jennison_former_lead_character_artist_in/


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on September 26, 2015, 02:38:16 AM
So they've collected GTA kind of money from their backers. A budget that was sufficient for a Hideo Kojima to make MGS V and take five years for it (rumored budget for MGS V was 80 million) And they squandered enough of it so that they already have to reduce their workforce?

Only Chris Roberts...

Also key creative people leaving? It will only be a short while until the first people come forward and claim that RSI stopped paying bills. Expect another donation drive soon.

DS maybe being right. It truly is the end times...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lantyssa on September 26, 2015, 09:08:02 AM
Surely we didn't pass over slavery yet and debtor's prison?
That's a great idea!  If someone went into debt over a virtual game, they can work off their debt by working on the virtual game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on September 26, 2015, 01:47:12 PM
Quote
It will only be a short while until the first people come forward and claim that RSI stopped paying bills.

i find that highly unlikely. if there's high profile quits, it's most likely just going to be that they can't stand working with roberts' arcane directives and tendency to switch horses mid-stream, from what it sounds like.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on September 26, 2015, 03:34:56 PM
Not sure if Bloodworth, but here's some more scuttlebutt:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3lyfb1/david_jennison_former_lead_character_artist_in/

Quote
The next important factor is budget. Anyone who has worked in game art knows that quality is not measured in a vacuum. Quality only exists relative to the available budget- tris and pixels. You plan and build your character based on the budget you expect to have. When I started here, I was astounded to learn that no one was able to tell me the budget for character assets. People seemed to be operating under the mantra “It’s CryEngine, the budget is irrelevant” This attitude for game art production is suicide in a bottle. This apparently is still a difficult question to answer. In the absence of budget, Roberts judges all game assets against his own imagination or an asset in another game.

 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Megrim on September 27, 2015, 01:08:22 AM
Well this thread sure is paying dividends.  :awesome_for_real:

Best investment I've ever made.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on September 27, 2015, 11:04:25 AM
When all of this is said and done, and "journalists" quit propping up Derek's actions here as something noble. He'll go back to being that giant asshole with an earring that makes shitty games.

There's no amount of relevancy he can squeeze from this stone to make him anything but that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on September 27, 2015, 11:27:52 AM
One thing has to be said about Serek Dmart. He really makes shitty games. He's so damn good at that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on September 27, 2015, 12:09:05 PM
Serek's earring really doesn't know how to make games.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tannhauser on September 27, 2015, 02:03:56 PM
When all of this is said and done, and "journalists" quit propping up Derek's actions here as something noble. He'll go back to being that giant asshole with an earring that makes shitty games.

There's no amount of relevancy he can squeeze from this stone to make him anything but that.

Ayup.  I guess this is how he can keep his name in the news instead of, you know, making a game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on September 27, 2015, 02:45:33 PM
So is this going to crash and burn any time soon ?



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on September 27, 2015, 03:20:45 PM
Seems like it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Furiously on September 27, 2015, 03:23:55 PM
So is this going to crash and burn any time soon ?

About two years ago.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on September 27, 2015, 06:50:56 PM
That letter sent to Dsmart was sad. Are their lawyers also Roberts' relatives, or just unprofessional idiots?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on September 27, 2015, 08:27:08 PM
Roberts' fans are cheering though. So it must be good.  :why_so_serious:



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on September 28, 2015, 02:01:43 PM
Now who still says this game isn't progressing?

https://vimeo.com/140492032


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on September 28, 2015, 02:38:49 PM
I can't wait until they announce that they are redoing every asset in the game again because they don't work with the gameplay systems.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on September 28, 2015, 03:58:21 PM
Q: How do you squeeze more money out of the whales who purchased a number of your virtual ships?
A: charge them extra every time they switch between these ships (http://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3md29h/notes_from_reverse_the_verse_episode_64/cve57gc)

Quote
There will be a fee on downgrades. Basically, it's necessary to reduce the abuse of the system: people switching willy nilly between whatever ships they want to fly on this day and causing unnecessary database schmeg.

Schmeg. It's what's unnecessary for databases.

I couldn't think of the right word here.

[..]

We haven't decided definitively what the fee will be. Basically, we want choice to matter, and if you can go back and forth without some form of cost it's our belief, at present, that it devalues the choice itself. Will the fee be IRL money, in-game credits, a skin that says, "I changed my mind" for 48 hours? We don't know, just yet. But it's our thinking at present that it's not enough to put a timer on it to achieve the result we're looking for.

Could that change? ABSOLUTELY. It's called development for a reason. =)

The only thing we're pretty certain on right now with regards to the CCU: we don't want people swapping their ships back and forth with patience as the only requirement. It's our feeling it would ultimately hurt the sense of ownership we want people to have in their ships when they can just swap them out with nothing more than a little waiting.

Also, the database stuff. And probably a few other things that haven't been shared with me just yet. It's pretty common to have more than one reason for any course of action we take, but these are the ones I can think of at this moment. =)

To think all these MMOs were allowing people to change their virtual pants for free all these years. So much unpunished abuse and database schmeg :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on September 28, 2015, 04:07:12 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/D1cMvnw.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on September 28, 2015, 04:09:07 PM
I don't even understand what the hell they are talking about with "downgrades" if I'm being honest.  Are we really talking about switching ships?  Someone please explain.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on September 28, 2015, 04:10:07 PM
This is the most complex fake game never made.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on September 28, 2015, 04:16:23 PM
"We don't know if it'll be real money"

YES YOU DO


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rasix on September 28, 2015, 04:26:44 PM
A fee for switching ships...

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/82533/wtf.gif)

I'm sure the fanbois will really love swiping their credit card every time they want to try one of the $1,000 fancy custom skins ships they bought.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ezrast on September 28, 2015, 04:31:13 PM
I don't even understand what the hell they are talking about with "downgrades" if I'm being honest.  Are we really talking about switching ships?  Someone please explain.
After a few minutes of Googling, I'm pretty sure they're not talking about hopping between ships in-game. They're letting players who have already spent real money on a ship spend more real money to get a fancier ship instead (or "downgrade" to a less fancy ship and get some credit).

It's like if I bought a $20 premium tank in World of Tanks, and they let me spend an extra $10 to have a $30 tank instead. But with spaceships instead of tanks and with a couple extra zeros on all those numbers.

If it wasn't limited somehow then buying the one most expensive ship would be equivalent to owning every premium ship in the game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on September 28, 2015, 04:33:57 PM
Technically, since none of that shit exists, those things are equivalent. You don't get the game no matter what.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on September 28, 2015, 04:40:41 PM
Ah, so this really doesn't stop you from switching between you $1000 ship and your $500 ship as long as you got both separately through pledges, this just means you can't exchange your $1000 ship for the $500 ship and $500 credit and then melt the $500 ship and use the balance to get the $1000 ship back and play indefinitely musical starships... because database schmeg.

Well whatever.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on September 28, 2015, 05:01:37 PM
Ah, so this really doesn't stop you from switching between you $1000 ship and your $500 ship as long as you got both separately through pledges, this just means you can't exchange your $1000 ship for the $500 ship and $500 credit and then melt the $500 ship and use the balance to get the $1000 ship back and play indefinitely musical starships... because database schmeg.

Well whatever.
If this is the case then it's not a big deal, and I'm surprised they're even allowing you to exchange your $1000 ship at all.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on September 28, 2015, 05:06:11 PM
Even IF there's a reasonable explanation these guys can't keep themselves from sounding like shifty motherfuckers looking to grift something new out of the suckers who are already into them for large monies.

I think this story goes back to before crowdfunding, way back into when beta testing started to be a way to recruit your MMO customers and you had to start giving them reasons to hope even when your game was obviously broken. The day that beta wasn't about finding bugs but was instead about marketing was the little sperm that has finally made a giant, bloody, chest-bursting baby with Star Citizen.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on September 28, 2015, 05:25:32 PM
I don't even understand what the hell they are talking about with "downgrades" if I'm being honest.  Are we really talking about switching ships?  Someone please explain.
Reading some more about it, from what I gather supposedly it's some sort of a system they have, which allows you to "melt" any ship you own to receive (in-game, I presume) money, which you can then use to buy different ship of equal, or lesser worth. So effectively, they are concerned someone who spent few hundred bucks on a virtual spaceship would be able to try out other virtual spaceships without shelling out extra money on these ships specifically? idk, but if that's the case then the fact they'd design such system and not figure out this would be obvious way to use it... that's large enough clown shoes on their own.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on September 28, 2015, 11:23:26 PM
Ah, so this really doesn't stop you from switching between you $1000 ship and your $500 ship as long as you got both separately through pledges, this just means you can't exchange your $1000 ship for the $500 ship and $500 credit and then melt the $500 ship and use the balance to get the $1000 ship back and play indefinitely musical starships... because database schmeg.

Well whatever.
If this is the case then it's not a big deal, and I'm surprised they're even allowing you to exchange your $1000 ship at all.

It's not a big deal, but I can see it being an issue for people who have spent hundreds or thousands of dollars on ships based on a description or video years before they're able to actually use them. For someone who gets to finally try out their $1000 ship after three years of waiting and finds out that don't really like it, it would probably be nice to just let them swap it out for something else without trying to get more money out of them.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on September 28, 2015, 11:32:01 PM
Why wouldn't you just do like most other games with similar systems and take a little percentage off the buyback price if you want to keep ships from being completely liquid?  What's this talk of "schmeg"?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on September 28, 2015, 11:47:06 PM
Not sure but they probably hired the same people who did the database design on Star Wars Galaxies for this game as well.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on September 29, 2015, 12:02:50 AM
Also I don't really get the "we want choice to matter" stuff here. As long as the game is in such an incomplete state choice shouldn't matter at all. They should be allowing people to use any ship they want right now, because what the fuck does it matter, and wouldn't it be better for testing purposes anyway?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on September 29, 2015, 01:17:41 AM
I guess some lawyer or tax consultant explained to them in simple words and short sentences what money laundering is and how it can be applied to Star Citizen. Since all of those fancy Starships are really nice looking $1000 bills if they can be freely converted to in game credits and back again.

I guess you could basically buy a $10,000 custom skin space ship, 'melt' it transfer the in-game funds to someone else and then convert it back into another $10,000 custom skin space ship that the other person can then sell on ebay.

In good old Chris Roberts tradition they then didn't do the sane (and legal) thing and simply ban sale of in-game currency or assets with real world money but simply added a virtual 'interest' to it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Nija on September 29, 2015, 07:08:45 AM
As someone who deals with databases for a living, this really hammers home just how fucked up this project is. They can't do ANYTHING right.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on September 29, 2015, 08:14:06 AM
I guess some lawyer or tax consultant explained to them in simple words and short sentences what money laundering is and how it can be applied to Star Citizen.

This guy must have an office at CIG somewhere.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1739972/web-images/better-call-saul-saul-goodman-esq-800x600.jpg)

This sounds like complete and utter clownshoes to me, so... PAR FOR THE COURSE!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on September 29, 2015, 09:03:42 AM
Is Schmeg and ancient Jewish word for 'Database Inconsistency' ?    :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on September 29, 2015, 09:59:39 AM
Just stumbled on this. November 2012. It's three damn years ago. Between hilarious and tragic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp_eYvXhx5c


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: brellium on September 29, 2015, 10:57:18 AM
God, it would be terrible if we go 20 years and X3:AP remains the gold standard for space sims. Which would be more ironic if Egosoft releases another turd.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on September 30, 2015, 03:34:55 AM
It's not a big deal, but I can see it being an issue for people who have spent hundreds or thousands of dollars on ships based on a description or video years before they're able to actually use them. For someone who gets to finally try out their $1000 ship after three years of waiting and finds out that don't really like it, it would probably be nice to just let them swap it out for something else without trying to get more money out of them.
It's a solution to a problem entirely created by their shitty business model. In another game, this doesn't even exist as a problem. If Eve Online for example sold premium ships, you'd be able to meaningfully evaluate the ship you were buying by comparing it to other ships in the game. You can rivet count and theorycraft as much as you like before you get the credit card out. How good is a given Star Citizen ship? Who knows? Here have $1800 for a ship that looks pretty, please don't make it suck in the game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on September 30, 2015, 04:24:32 AM
MISC Endeavour sale (lasts until CitizenCon, October 10th):
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14972-Research-Unbound-The-MISC-Endeavor

Design Doc - onboard Science activities by Tony Zurovec (nice ideas, we'll see how they will actually translate to a realistic gaming system, just like everything else. Gardening Commander Organics and Medical sound very cool):
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/14974-Design-The-Endeavor

I'll finally get my very own virtual marijuana plantation, together with a Meth Lab  :heart: :heart: :heart:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Brolan on September 30, 2015, 05:53:13 AM
The morons shoveling cash at this thing deserve every screw job they get.  WC Fields was right.  "Never give a sucker an even break".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on September 30, 2015, 11:20:01 AM
MISC Endeavour sale (lasts until CitizenCon, October 10th):
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14972-Research-Unbound-The-MISC-Endeavor

Wait, a $900 ship that you can add $45 pods to, as well as buy other ships to put inside your bigger ships?

Goddamnit, where is Xibit when you need him? Yo dawg I heard you like...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hutch on September 30, 2015, 11:34:28 AM
... to spend real money on virtual spaceships, so we put database schmeg in your virtual money.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on September 30, 2015, 12:16:11 PM
 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on September 30, 2015, 12:56:03 PM
You know, every time I think about this, I realize the following:

1) Let's just say they actually deliver this whole fucking thing just as they've described it. Everything.
2) They will now either have to allow the dumbshits who dropped thousands of real $$$ on it to crush everyone else and everything else like fleas, thereby limiting the only people who will want to play to a) people who've dropped thousands of real $$$ on it or b) crazy masochists
3) Or they will have to allow new players to work their way in some reasonable time frame towards parity, which will mean the real $$$ payers will howl and scream about the injustice of it all.

I know, I know, the FAQ has addressed all this already or whatever. But come on, even in the best case scenario, these guys have backed themselves into a zillion design cul-de-sacs that will be brutally destructive to whatever it is they eventually push out the door.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on September 30, 2015, 01:00:37 PM
They'd only be screwing the whales to funded the creation of the game.  Once the game is out, you make all your money on getting tons of people to play it, buy it, and spend money on micro transactions.  Who cares about all the big spenders at that point!   :awesome_for_real:


Not that they will ever release the full game that they are describing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on September 30, 2015, 01:19:14 PM
You know, every time I think about this, I realize the following:

1) Let's just say they actually deliver this whole fucking thing just as they've described it. Everything.
2) They will now either have to allow the dumbshits who dropped thousands of real $$$ on it to crush everyone else and everything else like fleas, thereby limiting the only people who will want to play to a) people who've dropped thousands of real $$$ on it or b) crazy masochists
3) Or they will have to allow new players to work their way in some reasonable time frame towards parity, which will mean the real $$$ payers will howl and scream about the injustice of it all.

I know, I know, the FAQ has addressed all this already or whatever. But come on, even in the best case scenario, these guys have backed themselves into a zillion design cul-de-sacs that will be brutally destructive to whatever it is they eventually push out the door.

Good points.  CIG will undoubtedly strive to achieve scenario n. 3 (at least as pretty "window-dressing") but, as massive multiplayer games taught us in the past, finding economic loopholes (or even cheats) is not that hard especially when gaming systems are still immature, so a well organized guild could get a Javelin Destroyer ship (a limited amount was sold a few months ago for $2.500) within a month. Now, in that case, you could argue that it's a "guild ship", owned by everyone and not just a single person(but the same "loopholes" could be exploited by an individual, yes). So, the big question is, how do you translate a $2,500 virtual ship in in-game currency/time played?

And yes, I agree with Teleku that, at that point, "whales" will have served their purpose, thanks for your whaling :D. A portion of whales won't have a problem with that because they actually did that out of "good faith", no matter how crazy that sounds, the others will start howling and screaming, yes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on September 30, 2015, 02:34:05 PM
What they're doing right now is making them boatloads of money, so why proceed to step 1) at all?  "Backer" packages cost at least as much as an actual box with a game inside, so why stop creating "content" to attract backers when it's so easy compared to creating a good actual game to attract gamers?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on September 30, 2015, 04:05:12 PM
MISC Endeavour sale (lasts until CitizenCon, October 10th):
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14972-Research-Unbound-The-MISC-Endeavor

when that page reached the pricing and sale portion is the single point that has shaken my faith in this game's potential the absolute most

and keep in mind i still think this will produce an ok game in the most likelihood.

but jesus christ.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on September 30, 2015, 04:33:27 PM


when that page reached the pricing and sale portion is the single point that has shaken my faith in this game's potential the absolute most

and keep in mind i still think this will produce an ok game in the most likelihood.

but jesus christ.

This isn't new at all.  This is - literally - business as usual.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Kail on September 30, 2015, 04:55:34 PM
They'd only be screwing the whales to funded the creation of the game.  Once the game is out, you make all your money on getting tons of people to play it, buy it, and spend money on micro transactions.  Who cares about all the big spenders at that point!   :awesome_for_real:

That seems really unlikely.  I've seen a lot of game business models, and "give the finger to people who gave you millions of dollars in the hopes that the people who haven't given you anything will change their minds" has not come up very often.

They might change the way that they target high spenders once the game comes out, but there is pretty much zero chance that the casual crowd is going to end up as anything other than sheep for high spending wolves.  Right now, they're basically selling hope, the dream that this game will exist someday.  Once this game releases, and these ships become actual tangible (virtual, whatever) products with measurable performance and desirability, that goes away, and these things will be subject to market forces.  People will buy whatever is cheapest and most effective, and if they can easily obtain this stuff for imaginary spacebucks in game, real money sales will fall off a cliff.  Either RSI says "we have enough money, shut off the money spigot" or they make the real money ships more powerful or cheaper than the in game money equivalent to drive people to buy them.  And coming from the team which is charging a THOUSAND DOLLARS for an in game ship, option A looks a bit unlikely.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on September 30, 2015, 06:25:10 PM
That seems really unlikely.  I've seen a lot of game business models, and "give the finger to people who gave you millions of dollars in the hopes that the people who haven't given you anything will change their minds" has not come up very often.

Star Wars Galaxies: The FPS Edition.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on September 30, 2015, 07:37:16 PM
Look at it this way. Some games have gotten away with RMT-type transactions that confer little advantage in direct combat but enormous advantage in in-game cultural prestige. But for that to work you generally need a base of people who aren't paying and don't care that much about who has housing or the Blade of Enormous Foozle-Death or whatever. Unless that means you can be a drooling dumbfuck and still get invited into the top powerraids OR it means that the powers that be, such as they are, bow and scrape to you. Otherwise, most of your playerbase are chill enough. But if you have Death Leviathan #23 (owned by Douchnozzle #10) who gave back $$$$ in the campaign constantly materializing and blowing the shit out of you while you're rescuing some dumb bastard from Dominica, I am guessing you won't stick very long.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on September 30, 2015, 07:42:42 PM
This isn't new at all.  This is - literally - business as usual.

I would think so if this were just the latest incarnation of traders or fighters. But this whole deal is such an arcane shovel-in of different gameplay shit that beggars all reasonable anticipation of what kind of gameplay you can build around it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on September 30, 2015, 10:29:21 PM
I would think so if this were just the latest incarnation of traders or fighters. But this whole deal is such an arcane shovel-in of different gameplay shit that beggars all reasonable anticipation of what kind of gameplay you can build around it.
Ehh, they can probably build the Farmville gardening module easier than the FPS part :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on October 01, 2015, 06:26:01 AM
Minecraft gardening/farming works pretty good and is simple.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Fabricated on October 01, 2015, 06:34:40 AM
I don't see a scenario where this game gets released in a form resembling what they're selling and a gigantic goonfleet or something doesn't form and own the shit out of all the whales and their godships.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on October 01, 2015, 07:46:23 AM
Design Doc - onboard Science activities by Tony Zurovec (nice ideas, we'll see how they will actually translate to a realistic gaming system, just like everything else. Gardening Commander Organics and Medical sound very cool):
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/14974-Design-The-Endeavor

Holy shit. I just read this bit about the Medical Module (i.e. the respawn points that can be in player ships):

Quote
The Medical Module outfits an Endeavor with all of the equipment necessary to heal any injury or cure any illness that one might encounter while traveling from world to world. That alone guarantees that an enterprising player maintaining a presence in a popular area of space ignored by other Endeavors will see a brisk demand for their services. Medical Modules, however, fulfill an even more fundamental role within the service ecosystem – they act as remote spawn points for both players and some smaller ships.

When a player dies, they have the option of respawning at any landing zone equipped with a hospital for a minimal charge. Alternatively, one may inspect the prices being offered by all nearby Endeavors equipped with a Medical Module that have activated their ID Beacons to determine whether a remote spawn into that ship – a concept that will often allow you to get back into the action a lot faster – is warranted. After a player has respawned into the hospital section of an Endeavor, they are granted access to a waiting room where they’re able to order any of several smaller ships that will fit within the Medical Module’s Hangar Bay. The Endeavor’s owner has to pay a premium for the rapid and remote delivery of such ships, and in turn is able to dictate the amount of profit that they require. Upon arrival of the ship, the respawned player – and any of their party members that are also residing within the waiting room – may enter the Hangar Bay, board the new ship, and continue on their way.

Most organizations will want at least one Endeavor in their armada, and will want to keep it nearby – but at a safe distance – when combat looms.

Is it just me, or does this sound like one of the greatest Goon grief potential modules ever? Set up a fleet around a highly trafficked area, blast the shit out of whoever comes in, offer them respawn in your medical module for a ridiculous amount but then don't allow them to respawn their ships. Suddenly, you have a ship full of respawned avatars who are stuck there. Do you have the option to respawn somewhere else if you aren't dead or did I just think of the Star Citizen equivalent of a slaver ship?  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on October 01, 2015, 08:17:22 AM
I think it's a sure bet that if the game ever does go live, they will have thought of nearly zero percent of some of the potentiality of various things in the design in terms of griefing, misuse and mischief. And if they ever do go fully live, there will be plenty of Goon-ish players who take special pleasure in messing around with it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 01, 2015, 09:42:27 AM
It'll probably just crash the server. Which doesn't exist. And never will.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 01, 2015, 10:34:47 AM
This just out, and NOT from Serek Dmart:

Star Citizen Employees Speak Out on Project Woes (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/features/14715-CIG-Employees-Talk-Star-Citizen-and-the-State-of-the-Company)

Quote
From inappropriate managerial conduct to fund mismanagement, here is the story from those who lived it. Nine people reached out to us - two were completely anonymous and were used to corroborate information. The seven quoted below identified themselves, but will be referenced by number (CS1, CS2, etc.) at their request."

[...]

"I realized it was affecting my health, my home life. I needed to get out. So I left. I had no job lined up. I just had to get out. I looked at my situation, I had enough in savings, so I left," CS3 told me. "I couldn't take it. It was by far the most toxic environment I have ever worked in. No one had clear direction about how to do their jobs well. No one was empowered to do their jobs well. Everything was second guessed, and the default reaction to everything was blame and yelling and emails with all capital letters and curse words."

If you are into this soap opera, worth a click.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on October 01, 2015, 10:51:30 AM
I guarantee this is what's going to happen:

The game will be shelved or come out with major features shelved, and CR will claim that the reason is that they ran out of money because Serek Dmart and his dastardly allies turned people off of the project.

Of course the idea that Serek Dmart can somehow tank a game (other than by making it or endorsing) it is ludicrous, but that's pretty clearly the end game here.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 01, 2015, 10:53:14 AM
Which would be like admitting that 90M (which is the amount they already had when Serek jumped in) weren't nearly enough. Anyway, yeah, I agree with you.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Montague on October 01, 2015, 11:08:33 AM
The "Chairman's" response:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14979-Chairmans-Response-To-The-Escapist

Glorious.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 01, 2015, 11:08:50 AM
Whoa, Roberts is responding specifically to that article and they edited it accordingly. That's pretty much guarantee for me that shit is going down.

edit: too late!

edit2: also this is fucking great, such a glorious mess.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 01, 2015, 11:13:37 AM
Quote from: Anonymous ex-CIG employee
"You have to ask 'at what point are you taking advantage of someone?' There's a certain responsibility," CS3 said in regards to the backers who have contributed large sums of money. "Like, I felt like we should have gone to their homes and made sure their kids were eating and dressed. It starts to feel like a gambling addiction after a certain point. It was hard not to feel guilty."

"Fans would come into the studio, and I wanted to be like 'Dude, run. Take your money and run.' I felt like I was part of a con," CS2 added.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 01, 2015, 11:19:18 AM
Quote from: Chris Roberts from his damage control email to the Escapist
I’m also pretty concerned that your reporter on this is compromised and pursuing her own agenda. For someone who is a self-acclaimed Gamer Gate supporter, which last I checked was about ethics in video game journalism, she’s not been behaving or going about her business like an ethical reporter.

 :ye_gods: :uhrr: :oh_i_see: :pedobear: :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 01, 2015, 11:22:57 AM
The way Roberts goes all in on the drama is really damning. There's no game, so the only thing to do is play for time. And this thing will be entertainment for months and nobody will be asking for game updates.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 01, 2015, 11:26:22 AM
I honestly think he's panicking. His "as quick as possible" response to the Escapist looks like a Serek Dmart wall of text with some Sir Bruce added, included with some piss poor internet detective work  <with pictures!> to try and discredit the "journalist" who wrote the piece. From here, it looks pathetic.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 01, 2015, 11:29:29 AM
Quote
People say we will not deliver the game we’ve promised. So? Shouldn’t you just let us get on with it? If it falls apart they will be vindicated, if not we will be.

 :why_so_serious: :pedobear: :uhrr: :cthulu: :cthulu: :popcorn:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 01, 2015, 11:50:23 AM
It was never about ethics in gaming journalism.

Chris Roberts sucks.

Not an ounce of this is surprising. He never didn't suck.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on October 01, 2015, 11:56:34 AM
This is all really just great.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on October 01, 2015, 12:01:30 PM
Not enough hookers and blow -- still waiting for revelations about sex parties paid for with donors' money.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 01, 2015, 12:01:54 PM
Yea, I want interoffice fucking, adultery, and trips to Mexico.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Montague on October 01, 2015, 12:11:11 PM
Quote
I would like to point out that ever since I got your email from David I have been working on this response. I worked on this until 5am last night, and a couple more hours this morning in the UK, where I am currently am in preparation for CitizenCon in a week from Saturday. Conservatively it’s taken me about eight hours to write. This is time I could have spent working on the game instead of dealing with a Serek Dmart instigated drama. And this is really what annoys me – that his silly rantings occasionally gain traction and pull me away from the very thing I prefer to do and the very thing everyone wants me to do and the very thing Serek Dmart accuses me of not doing – FINISHING THE GAME! By constantly tweeting, writing blogs and soliciting journalists in the background to report his “findings” he’s waging guerrilla warfare on my time, the time of other key executives, and the peace of mind of our employees and backers.

 :rofl:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 01, 2015, 12:27:04 PM
I think the way Roberts is going 'all in" in the drama is quite genuine and just shows he's fed up. And rightfully so (company trying to keep things afloat with a draconian attitude? Incredible, never heard of that in the history of business, both successful and unsuccessful).

But don't mind me, I'm just a "white knight" that can't think straight and without a mind of his own, apparently.. And Roberts, beside some hiccups here and there (see Digital Anvil: still, Freelancer is still considered a very good game, last I checked), IMO always put his name on great products (your opinion might differ, sure).

EDIT: "your" is meant for everyone but Schild. He's always right, in the end. Sorry for omitting that part in the first place.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on October 01, 2015, 01:07:21 PM
 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 01, 2015, 01:20:33 PM
I think the way Roberts is going 'all in" in the drama is quite genuine and just shows he's fed up. And rightfully so (company trying to keep things afloat with a draconian attitude? Incredible, never heard of that in the history of business, both successful and unsuccessful).

But don't mind me, I'm just a "white knight" that can't think straight and without a mind of his own, apparently.. And Roberts, beside some hiccups here and there (see Digital Anvil: still, Freelancer is still considered a very good game, last I checked), IMO always put his name on great products (your opinion might differ, sure).
Website has been here 13 years, you should be used to the fact I don't give opinions, I state facts. Yeesh.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on October 01, 2015, 01:20:46 PM
I think the way Roberts is going 'all in" in the drama is quite genuine and just shows he's fed up. And rightfully so (company trying to keep things afloat with a draconian attitude? Incredible, never heard of that in the history of business, both successful and unsuccessful).

But don't mind me, I'm just a "white knight" that can't think straight and without a mind of his own, apparently.. And Roberts, beside some hiccups here and there (see Digital Anvil: still, Freelancer is still considered a very good game, last I checked), IMO always put his name on great products (your opinion might differ, sure).

Just cause he's being genuine doesn't make it less of a retarded thing to do.  If your issue is DS starting drama you just let the drama die on it's own because that retarded response he made definitely isn't going to quiet things down once and for all.  


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hutch on October 01, 2015, 01:30:34 PM
Bad publicity is still publicity.

Now, can I interest you in purchasing your very own virtual spaceship?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 01, 2015, 01:40:33 PM
Website has been here 13 years, you should be used to the fact I don't give opinions, I state facts. Yeesh.

Whoops, edited  :grin:
----

And, yes, let me add: IT IS NOT what you would call a typical, professional reply by a CEO (that is why most official replies by CEOs are conceived and written by advisors/lawyers etc.).

Still, while it is definitely not advised to go outside certain PR boundaries when it comes to this kind of communications, I'm not totally against the idea of breaking those rules from time to time (ok, I'm probably wrong, since I've never been a CEO of a company, nor a PR advisor/lawyer).

While I find the first (and longest) part of the reply unneccessary when it brings up DS and other people in a repetitive manner, in the second part I think he provides a decent amount of clarification for a lot of the accusations brought up in the article.

Finally, yeah, it's unfortunate that one has to give the impression that he's "taking sides" for this whole mess, infact I actually have a more "wait and see" attitude (after the leaked letter and the firing of two employees I liked, I immediately looked up posts detailing how to get a refund, just in case).

And by the way: I spent $1.217,40  since October 2012.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 01, 2015, 01:52:40 PM
And by the way: I spent $1.217,40  since October 2012.

 :ye_gods:

I really hope you get your money's worth (or get it back), but you do realize that it's not you speaking in your posts, but the $1.217,40?

edit: and to clarify, I'm not talking about wasting money on frivolities, which I do so much I'm constantly broke. I'm talking about gambling on things you are emotionally attached to.
 



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on October 01, 2015, 01:55:39 PM
And by the way: I spent $1.217,40  since October 2012.
:ye_gods:

Unlikely as it sounds I hope one way or another you will get your money worth out of this mess, Lucas, because ouch, that is quite a chunk :/


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 01, 2015, 02:04:42 PM
And by the way: I spent $1.217,40  since October 2012.

 :ye_gods:

I really hope you get your money's worth (or get it back), but you do realize that it's not you speaking in your posts, but the $1.217,40?

edit: and to clarify, I'm not talking about wasting money on frivolities, which I do so much I'm constantly broke. I'm talking about gambling on things you are emotionally attached to.
 

Sure jakonovski: I did that with the (maybe vain...Wait, was it "vain" or "vein" in that infamous Ortwin's reply to DS demands?  :grin:) intent of being more transparent and, through my posts, try to show that, actually, some of my thoughts and related posts about this project might actually be detached from the money I wasted on virtual ship.

Again, it's probably a vain enterprise, but I'll try (not that I need to prove anything in this adorable hive of scum and villainy that is F13 and that I've been loving more and more through the years, although I wasn't here from the start)  :grin:
-----------

Oh, and by the way, it still doesn't detract from the fact that I could have spent that amount of money in much better way, yes, but I just wanted to state that, in my case, that amount didn't damage myself nor anyone around me in any way. Lucky for me, no drama stories to tell here (nor for the foreseeable future. I've stopped my virtual ship business quite a few months ago, actually).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on October 01, 2015, 02:47:08 PM
A CEO should NEVER EVER NEVER fucking respond to stories like this with anything more than a 1 or 2 line PR flack regurgitation. That he responded with a wall of text as large as something by The Good Doctor is very telling. It makes all those "Chris can't ever be told he's wrong or you'll get reamed" stories sound oh so much more plausible.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on October 01, 2015, 06:33:53 PM
The inevitable Daikatana-ish stories about what they wasted it all on are coming, never fear.

But holy fuck, yes, you can feel the panic pouring off Roberts in those replies.

"the company uses additional sources of funding such as tax incentives, marketing and product partnerships". This is truly Serek Dmart-worthy. Honestly, Smart should be excited to see someone else using lines like this. We are heading very quickly for "there is a company AT STEAK!!!!" when we see a line like this.

" Now that most of the base technology is in place we will be able to get with the Large World and MultiCrew milestone a game experience that will allow you to seamlessly go from foot, to boarding a fully realized spaceship with your friends, take off, fly thousands or millions of km in space, exit your ship in EVA and explore derelict space stations or wrecks, engage in FPS combat, return to your ship, engage in space combat and return to your home base to share the tales of your adventures with your other friends". This is straight out of Penny Arcade's "John Videogames" strip. Frighteningly so.

" I have a very strong executive management and design team with huge experience in AAA titles that all contribute to the decision making of the company. I listen to everyone - from our top level all the way through to our QA testers and community giving feedback on gameplay and features. I care and want to build the best game possible. Now that doesn't mean I agree with everyone's opinions and feedback as a project director I owe it to the community to stay true to my vision and pick the things that I think will make the game better which can occasionally lead to people feeling disgruntled, which I suspect is the root of this "concern"." Translation: I am just now beginning to realize that most of my employees hate my guts and realize that I am so far in over my head that I make "Lord British" look like Steve Jobs.

"Multiple sources from within the company stated that the Pacific Palisades mansion that Chris Roberts shares with Sandi Gardiner is being paid for with funds from the company, along with the couple's personal vehicles and personal vacations". Hello, burn rate! If it's true they're down to $8 million, the end is nigh.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on October 01, 2015, 07:31:07 PM
Stop STOP STOP I'M OUT OF POPCORNS!  :drillf:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hutch on October 01, 2015, 08:26:22 PM
I brought the sharing size

(http://media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/576/157/1157576.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on October 01, 2015, 11:16:03 PM
Yea, I want interoffice fucking, adultery, and trips to Mexico.
:awesome_for_real:

NSFW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyqy-RK-Cw4


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on October 01, 2015, 11:19:09 PM
(spoilered for size)

The cult is strong in this one.  :tinfoil: :popcorn:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 01, 2015, 11:27:06 PM
The conspiracy theories are coming in fast, so expect a full blown social media slapfight. Just like I predicted, the focus is completely off the game for now.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 01, 2015, 11:30:10 PM
Oh, and by the way, it still doesn't detract from the fact that I could have spent that amount of money in much better way, yes, but I just wanted to state that, in my case, that amount didn't damage myself nor anyone around me in any way. Lucky for me, no drama stories to tell here (nor for the foreseeable future. I've stopped my virtual ship business quite a few months ago, actually).

This is good to hear, and actually what matters. I think I've said it before, but thanks to some family drama in the past I'm kinda sensitive to anything that resembles a gambling addiction.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on October 01, 2015, 11:41:29 PM
Sounds like some heavy-hitters are about to take up the fight, this bodes well. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on October 02, 2015, 12:06:36 AM
(spoilered for size)

The cult is strong in this one.  :tinfoil: :popcorn:

Also:

"My judgement made me go and donate another $1000 to the SC development because of all you so called “journalists”." :ye_gods:

Man the Chris Roberts cult of personality are sure out in force in the comment sections.  Fucking weirdos.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2015/10/01/report-star-citizen-is-almost-out-of-cash-and-chris-roberts-insatiable-ambition-is-to-blame/?commentId=comment_blogAndPostId%2Fblog%2Fcomment%2F2327-17606-6764

Edit: Oh snap!
"Mac Senour 6 hours ago

As a 30 year vet of the video games industry, and an ex co-worker at Origins with Chris Roberts, I feel qualified to say this: this game will never be completed." :popcorn:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on October 02, 2015, 12:07:50 AM
Sounds like some heavy-shitters are about to take up the fight, this bodes well. 

TURD FOR THE TURD GOD  :drill:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 02, 2015, 12:47:18 AM
Just a data point. Apparently they sold 357 of those brand new $900 ships in the last day and a half, grossing $322K. Curious to see the day-by-day (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals) after yesterday's stuff.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 02, 2015, 01:01:16 AM
Christ. Is there some kind of a Star Citizen Tithe for true believers during times of trouble?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on October 02, 2015, 01:17:26 AM
Well, trying to find something positive here.  If this whole thing does collapse in an orgy of smashed coke machines and weasel rape, there might be a good opportunity for somebody to buy a ton of art assets for cheap during the inevitable sell off of company assets.  Not knowing a ton about 3D game development, would it be very hard for another group of people to take the art/animation assets they’ve already developed and use them in a totally different project?  Or is there a lot of stuff baked into them that makes it hard to re-purpose this stuff outside of whatever special Engine SC is being developed in?  Say what you will, but a lot of the artwork and 3D models for this look pretty nice.  It would be a shame if that all totally went up in smoke.

Could be a way for another company to get $100 million (minus company sex parties and CEO blow) worth of art assets for pennies on the dollar.  Maybe for use in a future Elite expansion possibly.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on October 02, 2015, 01:24:32 AM
What I find curious is the way the 'gaming press' is handling the whole drama. By pretending it does not exist.

Right now other members of the games media are using the "gamergate supporter" tag Chris Roberts mentions to pretend that this story is fake or at least doesn't hold much water.

Usually the reaction to a mention of SC is "Hey I didn't know that still existed. Hey they are now at how much money? Quickly let's talk about something else". For a business that likes to pretend that it works like real journalism this is exceptionally funny every time it happens. I guess it is easier to shit on the latest Konami fuckup instead.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Azazel on October 02, 2015, 01:57:47 AM
So is there a TL:DR summary of the Escapist article and Roberts' reply to it? Because I enojoy the popcorn but I'm not reading all that shit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 02, 2015, 02:06:50 AM
Escapist article: 7 anonymous employees say Star Citizen is out of money, is mismanaged, will never get done, and Roberts and his wife lead the studio like abusive jerks.
Roberts reply: None of that is true and if you publish this you will hurt us and our 260 employees even if it's not true. And it's all Serek Dmart's fault.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on October 02, 2015, 02:18:53 AM
Well, trying to find something positive here.  If this whole thing does collapse in an orgy of smashed coke machines and weasel rape, there might be a good opportunity for somebody to buy a ton of art assets for cheap during the inevitable sell off of company assets.  Not knowing a ton about 3D game development, would it be very hard for another group of people to take the art/animation assets they’ve already developed and use them in a totally different project?  Or is there a lot of stuff baked into them that makes it hard to re-purpose this stuff outside of whatever special Engine SC is being developed in?  Say what you will, but a lot of the artwork and 3D models for this look pretty nice.  It would be a shame if that all totally went up in smoke.

Could be a way for another company to get $100 million (minus company sex parties and CEO blow) worth of art assets for pennies on the dollar.  Maybe for use in a future Elite expansion possibly.   :awesome_for_real:


Check out how Curt Schilling's 38 Studios' game assets were auctioned and how quickly that happened.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 02, 2015, 02:41:07 AM
Has anyone pointed out - and I'm not going through 83 pages of nonsense to see - that it's HIGHLY likely that the numbers of things "sold" is completely fabricated and they don't have nearly the money they're claiming?

I absolutely refuse to believe they legitimately sold 357 of a $900 ship with all this shit going on.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 02, 2015, 02:45:09 AM
Yeah, I asked myself the same question a while ago. No, no one has ever pointed that out and neither is doing it now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 02, 2015, 02:52:46 AM
Has anyone pointed out - and I'm not going through 83 pages of nonsense to see - that it's HIGHLY likely that the numbers of things "sold" is completely fabricated and they don't have nearly the money they're claiming?

I absolutely refuse to believe they legitimately sold 357 of a $900 ship with all this shit going on.

Such weltschmerz.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on October 02, 2015, 02:54:17 AM
None of the companies in Roberts' conglomerate are publicly traded (at least that I know of) so as long as he correctly reports revenues and expenses to the IRS and his investors (if there are any) he's OK. He'd probably not be liable for misrepresenting sales figures.

If he used those sales figures to secure additional funds like for example "tax incentives, marketing and product partnerships" then he'd be committing fraud though.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on October 02, 2015, 02:55:51 AM
Right now I wouldn't bet one way or another. Both options,  that there are enough people willing to spend up to $10,000 on a pipe dream or that the sales figures are inflated, seem equally likely. So it's probably a combination of both.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 02, 2015, 03:02:01 AM
Yep, I wondered about it myself a lot of times: that amount of money still seems incredible to me. But then again, having followed the forums, reddit and other places for the last few years, see people talk about their plan on purchasing ships during a big sale like this last one (and then commenting about having actually purchased them, sometimes in bulk), I realized that it's not entirely unreasonable  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: apocrypha on October 02, 2015, 03:34:52 AM
I had a brief perusal of the official forums and the Star Citizen subreddit this morning and the levels of blind adulation, fanboi frothing and complete denial on display make me convinced that they absolutely could have sold this many imaginary spaceships for a game that will never exist.

Back before Elite: Dangerous was released the forums and subreddits were pretty deeply mired in fanatical bias, but this is a whole other level. The fact that *any* dissent or caution is able to surface, however briefly, before being shot down is a very strong indicator of just how deep the troubles must be running.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on October 02, 2015, 03:38:25 AM
Apocalyptic cults get more and more intense as the appointed day approaches, but oddly, many of them stay devoted even when the world doesn't end when it was supposed to. Because by that point they've usually given over most of what they owned and most of their ordinary life to the cult, so it's not like they have anything to gain by walking away.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on October 02, 2015, 03:47:01 AM
In the response to The Escapist though, Roberts does actually confirm that Sandi Gardiner is his wife. Which is a thing that was hotly denied and apparently a huge secret previously.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on October 02, 2015, 04:00:15 AM
Isn't there another Roberts (Erin?) that is vice-president of something important sounding?  Does this guy only surround himself by people he's had sex with?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 02, 2015, 04:19:58 AM
In the response to The Escapist though, Roberts does actually confirm that Sandi Gardiner is his wife. Which is a thing that was hotly denied and apparently a huge secret previously.

Hmm, not exactly: they never rented a page on the NYT declaring to the world that they're married, no. Interestingly enough, having closely followed the project since the beginning, having watched that infamous "last stretch" YT video and other stuff, I alwas knew they were, infact, married (judging from what I've seen on the various forums, I was definitely not alone in knowing that).

And yeah, Erin Roberts is Chris' brother: he worked at Origin, contributed to the Wing Commander titles, Strike Commander, Privatter, produced Privateer 2 and later on Starlancer.
http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,23689/

He's currently the director of global production for CIG and also in charge of the UK office (Foundry 42) which is the one in charge of the majority of work for the single-player portion of the project.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on October 02, 2015, 04:47:05 AM
Erin is a dude's name?  Well okay.

I am thinking of another bimbo who made some comment about how she couldn't be VP of XYZ when there was no President of XYZ, or some other moronic comment.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on October 02, 2015, 05:00:25 AM
In the response to The Escapist though, Roberts does actually confirm that Sandi Gardiner is his wife. Which is a thing that was hotly denied and apparently a huge secret previously.

Hmm, not exactly: they never rented a page on the NYT declaring to the world that they're married, no.


This goes beyond not renting a page in the NYT. They have never publicly acknowledged it up until now, and anytime somebody on the RSI forums has asked if they are married or if Chris has a wife moderators have shut the conversation down and said that that's personal information.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 02, 2015, 05:30:11 AM
Erin is a dude's name?  Well okay.

I am thinking of another bimbo who made some comment about how she couldn't be VP of XYZ when there was no President of XYZ, or some other moronic comment.

That was in fact the wife we are talking about who said that, Sandi Gardiner. Calling her a bimbo though...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on October 02, 2015, 06:00:18 AM
(spoilered for size)

The cult is strong in this one.  :tinfoil: :popcorn:

My favorite part is that the "war" he is going to wage is spamming comments sections. Fight the good fight, sir.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on October 02, 2015, 06:56:52 AM
Internet war.  Internet war never changes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on October 02, 2015, 08:42:07 AM
MISC Endeavour sale (lasts until CitizenCon, October 10th):
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14972-Research-Unbound-The-MISC-Endeavor

when that page reached the pricing and sale portion is the single point that has shaken my faith in this game's potential the absolute most

and keep in mind i still think this will produce an ok game in the most likelihood.

but jesus christ.

Best part is you can increase quantity of modules in your checkout cart. Just in case you need 4 or 5 $100 farms.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on October 02, 2015, 08:43:59 AM
In the response to The Escapist though, Roberts does actually confirm that Sandi Gardiner is his wife. Which is a thing that was hotly denied and apparently a huge secret previously.
Does anybody why this was supposed to be secret?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on October 02, 2015, 08:45:41 AM
Well, trying to find something positive here.  If this whole thing does collapse in an orgy of smashed coke machines and weasel rape, there might be a good opportunity for somebody to buy a ton of art assets for cheap during the inevitable sell off of company assets.  Not knowing a ton about 3D game development, would it be very hard for another group of people to take the art/animation assets they’ve already developed and use them in a totally different project?  Or is there a lot of stuff baked into them that makes it hard to re-purpose this stuff outside of whatever special Engine SC is being developed in?  Say what you will, but a lot of the artwork and 3D models for this look pretty nice.  It would be a shame if that all totally went up in smoke.

Could be a way for another company to get $100 million (minus company sex parties and CEO blow) worth of art assets for pennies on the dollar.  Maybe for use in a future Elite expansion possibly.   :awesome_for_real:

SD should buy it and make the game he's always promised :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on October 02, 2015, 08:46:29 AM
Does anybody why this was supposed to be secret?
Would you want anybody to know if you were married to Chris Roberts?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hutch on October 02, 2015, 08:53:23 AM
In the response to The Escapist though, Roberts does actually confirm that Sandi Gardiner is his wife. Which is a thing that was hotly denied and apparently a huge secret previously.
Does anybody why this was supposed to be secret?

When Roberts runs out of money, her pimp will take her back.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MahrinSkel on October 02, 2015, 08:59:00 AM
In the response to The Escapist though, Roberts does actually confirm that Sandi Gardiner is his wife. Which is a thing that was hotly denied and apparently a huge secret previously.
Does anybody why this was supposed to be secret?

Well, since we've repeatedly even told that she is eminently qualified to be the SVP of Marketing for a $90m firm, it must have been her and Chris Roberts' desire to remain private individuals, out of the public eye.

I thought this industry had matured, gotten all corporate and boring. Glad to see it is still interesting. I provide, without comment, a link to Sandi's explanation, in her own words:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3jgejz/transcript_meet_the_devs_sandi_gardiner/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3jgejz/transcript_meet_the_devs_sandi_gardiner/)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on October 02, 2015, 09:21:58 AM
Christ. Is there some kind of a Star Citizen Tithe for true believers during times of trouble?

They honestly should get an "I Win" tax form.




Apocalyptic cults get more and more intense as the appointed day approaches, but oddly, many of them stay devoted even when the world doesn't end when it was supposed to. Because by that point they've usually given over most of what they owned and most of their ordinary life to the cult, so it's not like they have anything to gain by walking away.



Well they've earned at least 90 million. GTA V took like 5 years to be developed. Since they started in 2012 don't you think they can't release it on 2018 the latest?

There is fundamental problem that even before you account for equipment and building rent their average staff salary should burn through their millions by next year but they alluded to having funding from non-crowdfunding sources.

*shrugs*


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 02, 2015, 09:28:23 AM
SD should buy it and make the game he's always promised :awesome_for_real:


I'd have to buy that as an esoteric artifact for the collection. Alongside the crystal skulls and other things.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on October 02, 2015, 09:30:26 AM
In the response to The Escapist though, Roberts does actually confirm that Sandi Gardiner is his wife. Which is a thing that was hotly denied and apparently a huge secret previously.
Does anybody why this was supposed to be secret?

When Roberts runs out of money, her pimp will take her back.


They do have a kid now.  :heartbreak:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on October 02, 2015, 09:54:54 AM
SD should buy it and make the game he's always promised :awesome_for_real:


I'd have to buy that as an esoteric artifact for the collection. Alongside the crystal skulls and other things.
Like when Daikanta was released on steam, and then went on sale for less than a buck.  I bought it just to own.  I've still not actually ever played the game.  Waiting for some special drunken night to enjoy it for the special artifact it is.

SD buying the art assets for this and attempting to make a new battle cruiser game out of them, might just create such a pure concentrated form of lol, that it rips a hole in the fabric of time and let's the old ones in.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on October 02, 2015, 09:55:30 AM
In the response to The Escapist though, Roberts does actually confirm that Sandi Gardiner is his wife. Which is a thing that was hotly denied and apparently a huge secret previously.
Does anybody why this was supposed to be secret?

Well, since we've repeatedly even told that she is eminently qualified to be the SVP of Marketing for a $90m firm, it must have been her and Chris Roberts' desire to remain private individuals, out of the public eye.

I thought this industry had matured, gotten all corporate and boring. Glad to see it is still interesting. I provide, without comment, a link to Sandi's explanation, in her own words:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3jgejz/transcript_meet_the_devs_sandi_gardiner/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3jgejz/transcript_meet_the_devs_sandi_gardiner/)

Marketing for nightclubs and stuff. Lots of stuff!

She had experience with stuff!

(Also, it turns out that in fashion and real estate you don't interact with people, but with video games you do. How about that. You learn new things all the time.)


Also,  :grin:: it's a challenge to market Star Citizen, because (in her own words): "most things, there's a date".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on October 02, 2015, 10:01:51 AM
I provide, without comment, a link to Sandi's explanation, in her own words:

(http://static.thefrisky.com/uploads/2013/08/13/ThursdayOct26_22.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mandella on October 02, 2015, 12:24:52 PM
Making money from games (as a player, not producer) is such a crazy business that it is somewhat like the old saw about running from a bear -- I don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than you. But in the gamers' case replace "faster" with "crazier."

As a case in point, I have a friend that still plays Evony (honestly, it is a friend and NOT ME). He's not so crazy, as he's probably only dropped somewhat under 100 dollars over the lifetime of the game. But he tells me there are players who routinely spend hundreds buying up a good starting position, then grind it up to super powered levels and resell it for thousands. It's actually a dependable enough market to make a decent living. Off of Evony. One of the worst games in the known universe.

My point is that the crazy people who are buying up ships now might, *might,* still be able to turn a profit if the game ever ships in any form whatsoever. Day one there are going to be trust-fund kiddies who are looking to be spending granddad's money on the biggest baddest ships in the fleet, and they may well be willing to buy your 1000 buck ship for 2000.

Might.

But at this point, good luck with that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on October 02, 2015, 12:31:28 PM
Well, my friends are also crazy and today we were looking at this link:
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1968/Noaa-Flagship-Ice-Class-Diesel-Electric-Expedition-2857704/Seattle/WA/United-States#.Vg6ppflVhBf

For when it is truly time to cash out.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on October 02, 2015, 12:46:20 PM
In the response to The Escapist though, Roberts does actually confirm that Sandi Gardiner is his wife. Which is a thing that was hotly denied and apparently a huge secret previously.
Does anybody why this was supposed to be secret?

When Roberts runs out of money, her pimp will take her back.


Not to be that guy, but that was probably a bit over the top into unnecessarily offensive. Not that I didn't LOL, because I did. I am a very bad man.

EDIT: And by offensive I do mean misogynistic, and there's really so many better ways to insult her than to go there. Things like quoting her exact words.

As for those $900 ships selling as this controversy was erupting, in normal circumstances, I might disbelieve those numbers too. But then I remember that many, many dipshits bought virtual ships in a non-existent not even in alpha game for over $18,000 and I realized that if you are that balls deep in something, $900 is a goddamn nothing.

And... I... WEPT.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on October 02, 2015, 01:00:44 PM
In a dramatic turn of events, that guy I have spoken about before that spent a ridiculous amount of money on virtual ships and ended up losing his family, has somehow come out of his reality coma and has managed to move a majority of his ships to other interested buyers at (according to him, so I regard with suspicion) a very modest profit. He is talking about rebuilding his life and trying to make up with his family. Unfortunately, from first hand conversation with his now ex-wife, there is no chance of him putting things back together.  He isn't completely cured of his virtual-ship sickness completely though, because he is still holding onto some of the accounts he has packages on because he really believes that they are going to get more valuable.


Edit: The disclaimer about this guy though, is that I think if it hadn't been virtual space ships, this guy would have blown his shit up over something else, maybe bitcoin or those buy gold cons.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Torinak on October 02, 2015, 01:44:58 PM
Has anyone pointed out - and I'm not going through 83 pages of nonsense to see - that it's HIGHLY likely that the numbers of things "sold" is completely fabricated and they don't have nearly the money they're claiming?

I absolutely refuse to believe they legitimately sold 357 of a $900 ship with all this shit going on.

There are a heck of a lot of single people who work in tech, make comfortable 6-figure salaries, and live in the equivalent of their parents' basement. They live paycheck-to-paycheck because it's more fun than thinking about saving for the future. The number of people I ran into in Silicon Valley who would just go drop 3-4K on some random tech gizmo they'd never use again "because it looked neat" was mind-boggling. Virtual spaceships could easily suck them in.

That's not even getting into all of the "rich but not RICH" people who cashed out at the right time from various IPOs and ended up with multiple millions of liquid cash and nothing to do with it. Or the ones with more than that who decided they were all business geniuses and decided to become "angel investors" (i.e., bigger sheep).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Torinak on October 02, 2015, 01:50:29 PM
Well, trying to find something positive here.  If this whole thing does collapse in an orgy of smashed coke machines and weasel rape, there might be a good opportunity for somebody to buy a ton of art assets for cheap during the inevitable sell off of company assets.  Not knowing a ton about 3D game development, would it be very hard for another group of people to take the art/animation assets they’ve already developed and use them in a totally different project?  Or is there a lot of stuff baked into them that makes it hard to re-purpose this stuff outside of whatever special Engine SC is being developed in?  Say what you will, but a lot of the artwork and 3D models for this look pretty nice.  It would be a shame if that all totally went up in smoke.

Could be a way for another company to get $100 million (minus company sex parties and CEO blow) worth of art assets for pennies on the dollar.  Maybe for use in a future Elite expansion possibly.   :awesome_for_real:


Given the recently-linked comments from a lead artist about the lack of guidance and attention to poly budgets, etc., in the artwork, I doubt much of it would really be usable. It's not much good to have a nice spaceship model that you can't actually render without killing your framerate...

But if the assets did get bought up and incorporated into a passable game (even one by DS) I'd buy it just for the sense of irony.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hutch on October 02, 2015, 02:00:10 PM
In the response to The Escapist though, Roberts does actually confirm that Sandi Gardiner is his wife. Which is a thing that was hotly denied and apparently a huge secret previously.
Does anybody why this was supposed to be secret?

When Roberts runs out of money, her pimp will take her back.


Not to be that guy, but that was probably a bit over the top into unnecessarily offensive. Not that I didn't LOL, because I did. I am a very bad man.

EDIT: And by offensive I do mean misogynistic, and there's really so many better ways to insult her than to go there. Things like quoting her exact words.


But you are that guy.

And not to put words in my own mouth, but it never occurred to me to insult Ms Gardiner. I was going the other way with it.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 02, 2015, 02:17:32 PM
Well, my friends are also crazy and today we were looking at this link:
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1968/Noaa-Flagship-Ice-Class-Diesel-Electric-Expedition-2857704/Seattle/WA/United-States#.Vg6ppflVhBf

For when it is truly time to cash out.
$1M is a weak cash out.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Megrim on October 02, 2015, 03:54:29 PM
Well, my friends are also crazy and today we were looking at this link:
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1968/Noaa-Flagship-Ice-Class-Diesel-Electric-Expedition-2857704/Seattle/WA/United-States#.Vg6ppflVhBf

For when it is truly time to cash out.

I don't know man, if I had a spare million, that is a pretty cool boat. All you'd need to do would be to outfit it into a 70s Bond Villain scheme, and you are set.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Miasma on October 02, 2015, 05:09:00 PM
Apocalyptic cults get more and more intense as the appointed day approaches, but oddly, many of them stay devoted even when the world doesn't end when it was supposed to. Because by that point they've usually given over most of what they owned and most of their ordinary life to the cult, so it's not like they have anything to gain by walking away.
This is the same analogy I use for the die hard fans but with the added twist that at least people who thought that old fool had calculated the end of the world based on "biblical math" had a set in stone release date.  It passed and they had to move on to new and different delusions, the star citizen zealot however has no hard date and will be strung along for years to come.

I really doubt they are inflating their pledge numbers, the aftermarket for rare ships, their forums, anecdotes here and that spreadsheet I linked ages ago from SA make me pretty sure the money is real.  I'm sure it's all being wasted but the inflows are real.

I bought some ships years ago literally as an experiment in being less cynical and it has backfired in a pretty amazing way.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on October 02, 2015, 05:11:55 PM
I don't know man, if I had a spare million, that is a pretty cool boat. All you'd need to do would be to outfit it into a 70s Bond Villain scheme, and you are set.

If you are a bond villain, this is what you would go for. http://www.migaloo-submarines.com/ (http://www.migaloo-submarines.com/)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 02, 2015, 05:14:28 PM
In a dramatic turn of events, that guy I have spoken about before that spent a ridiculous amount of money on virtual ships and ended up losing his family, has somehow come out of his reality coma and has managed to move a majority of his ships to other interested buyers at (according to him, so I regard with suspicion) a very modest profit

To credit his story, the bubble of robertsmania has actually made it so that the modest profit is a plausible outcome.

The minor advantage to him having done this with the promise of future digital space ships is that it was a stable enough investment (... of, uh, sorts) that there was enough of a timeframe to cash out and make profit.

If he had done it with bitcoin he would probably have watched the value of his investments plummet faster than the fucking ruble and been more out of sorts about it.

If he's listening, have him get rid of all the rest of it shy of a tiny parcel of vanity early backer shit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on October 02, 2015, 05:52:09 PM
I know a couple of people who bought in at low pledge levels who have cashed out at a profit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mandella on October 02, 2015, 07:07:27 PM
I know a couple of people who bought in at low pledge levels who have cashed out at a profit.

I didn't realize you could legally sell the ships at this point (before release).

Well then yes that makes it a futures commodity of a sort and the canny speculators will make a mint. It makes no difference at all if the game ever ships, or even if there has ever been a line of code written or one texture applied to a workable frame. It's all about the belief.

Of course, there will be a lot of doofuses left holding the bag after the final crash, but there always are...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Azazel on October 02, 2015, 07:13:13 PM
Erin is a dude's name?  Well okay.

I am thinking of another bimbo who made some comment about how she couldn't be VP of XYZ when there was no President of XYZ, or some other moronic comment.

That was in fact the wife we are talking about who said that, Sandi Gardiner. Calling her a bimbo though...

I imagine calling her a bimbo is a direct result of the "how can I be vice-president? tee hee." quote.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Severian on October 02, 2015, 09:36:05 PM
Not that anyone here is doubting the info, but The Escapist gives more details on its sources (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/14727-The-Escapist-Explains-Its-Star-Citizen-Sources-Vetting-and-Respo). The interactions were not brief. One of the sources even sent video, which may be published if they can verify it.

Quote from: The Escapist
Ideally, if you can get two people on the record saying the same thing, or at least three anonymous people saying the same thing, then the information is good to run. We got our information from nine independent sources talking about the working conditions at Cloud Imperium and their take on the status of Star Citizen, and all were properly vetted.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 02, 2015, 11:36:42 PM
I know a couple of people who bought in at low pledge levels who have cashed out at a profit.
I didn't realize you could legally sell the ships at this point (before release).
I can't tell if this is a joke post.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on October 03, 2015, 01:55:03 AM
Given the recently-linked comments from a lead artist about the lack of guidance and attention to poly budgets, etc., in the artwork, I doubt much of it would really be usable. It's not much good to have a nice spaceship model that you can't actually render without killing your framerate...

But if the assets did get bought up and incorporated into a passable game (even one by DS) I'd buy it just for the sense of irony.
Ah, good point.  Though it seems like it would always be easy to scale back the poly count on an existing model, while the act of building more into one is the time consuming (and costly) process.  But again, don't know much at all about 3D modeling for games, so could be totally wrong on that (anybody have an idea?).

Everything will likely go poof if/when this collapses, but it would be a shame if all the money poured into the art assets didn't get used for something at least.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 03, 2015, 02:37:27 AM
In the meantime, on Steam, a tiny English team with NO budget (which is 90 million times less money than 90 million dollars) released this rough and unpolished gem called Angels Fall First (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=625_eECEw4A) that does the Star Citizen/Star Marine/MultiCrew stuff years before Star Citizenl ever will (if ever).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NejH2VWd06M


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on October 03, 2015, 03:58:43 AM
 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on October 03, 2015, 08:27:39 AM
Pffft but they don't even have animation of putting on your helmet as you board the ship. :why_so_serious:

(seriously though, that looks more functional than Star Citizen and Battlecruiser spin-offs combined. and the Early Access is dirt cheap in comparison)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mandella on October 03, 2015, 09:15:49 AM
I know a couple of people who bought in at low pledge levels who have cashed out at a profit.
I didn't realize you could legally sell the ships at this point (before release).
I can't tell if this is a joke post.

I meant "legally" as in allowed by the game TOS, which now that I think about it doesn't make any difference. People will obviously do it anyway.

So maybe a stupid question, but *are* the ship properties freely transferable right now, or do you have to pull account swapping shenanigans?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on October 04, 2015, 03:29:02 AM
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14979-Chairmans-Response-To-The-Escapist

CiG have given Escapist a 24 hour ultimatum (it should be 18 hours left) apologize or they'll sue.


(http://www.cinemablend.com/images/news/69526/_1422850051.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 04, 2015, 03:39:07 AM
There'll be a settlement, but in case it all went to court, that'd be the final nail in Star Citizen's coffin. No matter who wins. 

Unless of course there's a special Lawsuit Sale where all the ships cost double.

 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 04, 2015, 04:19:53 AM
They are literally pulling a dereksmart here. This is probably the biggest acknowledgement they could ever give to Serek. Wow.

Also, the letter is signed by that lawyer who is the co-founder of Cloud Imperium Games, so I smell a mess there. Wouldn't you want an external party to give you some clarity here, especially legal-wise?

By the way, first page of that letter (you can see it for yourself at the link patience posted):

Quote
We are contacting you because a) you have violated the most basic rules and ethics in journalism

So it's just about ethics in journalism after all  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on October 04, 2015, 04:25:30 AM
A lawyer is a lawyer. It's sort of like having a lawyer on retainer but he's actually a business partner instead of a contractor.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on October 04, 2015, 04:44:53 AM
Depends on where this goes to court.  In the United States CIG has a snowball's chance in hell of winning.  In the UK they have a better shot.  The Escapist is owned by an American company right?  I don't know how this stuff works.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sparky on October 04, 2015, 04:56:00 AM
This shit is bananas.  I thought EVE knew drama.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on October 04, 2015, 05:38:19 AM
We should take this as a lesson that any time internet spaceships are involved there will be meltdowns.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 04, 2015, 05:57:49 AM
How would this go to court in the UK when it's about Americans writing about other Americans in American media? I'm sure there's a way, but what would it be?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on October 04, 2015, 06:35:23 AM
Why did this page get so many extra posts...

Oh.

Lol.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on October 04, 2015, 06:37:32 AM
How would this go to court in the UK when it's about Americans writing about other Americans in American media? I'm sure there's a way, but what would it be?
They only need to get the revolted colony back in the British fold. Afterwards it's logical the mainland court should decide in such important matter.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on October 04, 2015, 10:13:11 AM
In Germany for example a company legal department can't represent the company in court. Official legal representation has to come from an external law firm.

The same reason as to why it's usually a bad idea to represent yourself in court even when you are a lawyer yourself.

Regardless of that, acknowledging a rumor piece by a gaming site that no one outside a very limited audience has ever heard of us usually not a great idea. Justifying it by appealing to ethics in game journalism is just the ridiculous cherry on top of a bad PR move.

The Streisand effect will make sure that even more peop,e hear of all of the alleged rumors.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: brellium on October 04, 2015, 10:16:56 AM
In Germany for example a company legal department can't represent the company in court. Official legal representation has to come from an external law firm.

The same reason as to why it's usually a bad idea to represent yourself in court even when you are a lawyer yourself.

Regardless of that, acknowledging a rumor piece by a gaming site that no one outside a very limited audience has ever heard of us usually not a great idea. Justifying it by appealing to ethics in game journalism is just the ridiculous cherry on top of a bad PR move.

The Streisand effect will make sure that even more peop,e hear of all of the alleged rumors.
Yeah, but the push for legal action is probably coming from their marks fans.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on October 04, 2015, 10:41:30 AM
How would this go to court in the UK when it's about Americans writing about other Americans in American media? I'm sure there's a way, but what would it be?

If they can show that UK readers saw the article, then they can ask a British court to take the case. British libel law is famously charitable to the plaintiff (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libel_tourism) so a lot of cases involving foreign parties get heard there.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Montague on October 04, 2015, 11:14:03 AM
How would this go to court in the UK when it's about Americans writing about other Americans in American media? I'm sure there's a way, but what would it be?

If they can show that UK readers saw the article, then they can ask a British court to take the case. British libel law is famously charitable to the plaintiff (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libel_tourism) so a lot of cases involving foreign parties get heard there.

Which is non-enforceable in the US:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-10940211



 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on October 04, 2015, 11:47:04 AM
Dear God, it's like the Good Doctor has not only been summoned but is handing out straight up possessions to force people to be just as fucking retardedly sue-happy as he is. I'm quite sure this was brought on by a little bit of the "you better defend your wife" shit at home, but still... goddamnit. Just let the shit sink to the bottom if there isn't any truth to it. This shit only serves to reinforce the idea that he's a vindictive twat to his employees by making me think he's going to try to find out who the sources are so he can shitcan and/or sue them. He has well and truly gone full retard.

Next module to be announced for Star Citizen: Intergalactic Slander Lawyer, complete with $20,000 ship model The AC-16 Interplanetary Ambulance Chaser.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on October 04, 2015, 12:43:36 PM
Next module to be announced for Star Citizen: Intergalactic Slander Lawyer, complete with $20,000 ship model The AC-16 Interplanetary Ambulance Chaser.

Shut up and take my money.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MahrinSkel on October 04, 2015, 12:48:11 PM
I had something to say here, but decided I don't want to get mixed up in this mess.

--Dave


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on October 04, 2015, 01:00:05 PM
Yeah but even in the UK you can't simply say to the court "this whole thing is libelous" and have the court magically agree with you.

You usually have to very specifically argue as to exactly which parts of the thing are actually libelous and more importantly why they are. Also even the UK has actual benchmarks to test whether a certain piece of content is actually libelous and not just simply shoddy reporting. Otherwise the whole UK yellow press - probably the most rabid and morally bankrupt bunch of cunts in the world - would have gone out of business ages ago.

There is no reason to assume any intent by the Escapist to slander CIG and so the Escapist could basically win this just by proving that they have done their due diligence and have done enough to corroborate their story with their sources. Which they apparently can. The best CIG could hope for is for the Escapist being forced to run a counter-statement on their site if they can actually prove that the Escapist has represented or reported parts of the story incorrectly or in a misleading way.

That is if they'd actually be able to file that suit in the UK and make it stick in the US (Good luck with that).

Ironically this would also make CIG itself basically corroborating all parts of the story they can't prove to be false or intentionally misleading. Which would makes this something I'd actually like to see.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 04, 2015, 01:07:47 PM
There seems to be some effort to tie Gamergate into this, because the Escapist and Serek have apparently expressed sympathies in that direction in the past. Guilt by association, or rather people having the conviction that since Gamergate is bad, Chris Roberts must be good and you have to support him. A nice way to get some more money, that.  



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 04, 2015, 03:19:04 PM
LOL, what a mess; the whole "ID Card" angle is quite interesting, tho, if you are also following the drama on SC subreddit (and the backpedaling and deletion of some twits by the original author of the Escapist article).

Regarding how Roberts is leading the project and such, yeah, I'm sure he is one of those guys that is pretty hard to work it. But...really? How do you say it in english, "news at 11?". But yeah, apparently both him and his wife would make Jeff Bezos tremble on his knees (and by the way, personally I always disliked Sandi Gardiner and I agree she should just go back in the kitchen where she belongs :grin: ). I realize, tho, that given the drama and pessimism that surrounds the project, this new stuff  fits just perfectly and provide nice entertainment.

On the other hand, maybe even more interesting and debatable is the "module" (maybe "modular" is wrong in this case) approach they decided to choose when developing the project. There is no doubt that Roberts put himself into a hole, VERY subject to continous scrutiny, because:

- You first allow backers to visualize (some of) their ships into hangars. Ok, so what? ;
- You release a pre-alpha of the flying model through a fictional "game in a game" (arena commander) but of course that's a minimal part of the whole picture ;
- Then you release a very first draft of what is going to be the trading/socializing (but also exploring on foot) part, the so called "social/planetside" module....But yeah, that's it? ;
- Then, eventually, you will release the FPS part, but again, at first, only as another "game in a game" (star marine), although we've seen some potential in the "multiplayer demo" during Gamescom (recovering the Retaliator wreckage) ;
- At CitizenCon, they'll show the Galaxy Map plus what they've dubbed "Baby PU" (which they will also release to backers SOON  :grin:), in which they will implement the various game systems (mining, salvaging etc.).....But again, no "whole picture".

And of course, on the side, the single player game (from what I've heard, during next week's CitizenCon, beside the Cast, they will show some in-game cinematics and maybe a bit of gameplay).

So yeah, because of that approach, no matter what they're going to publish, the inevitable (and legitimate) answer is "ok, but that's only a fraction of what you've promised".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on October 04, 2015, 03:33:43 PM

So yeah, because of that approach, no matter what they're going to publish, the inevitable (and legitimate) answer is "ok, but that's only a fraction of what you've promised".

The problem is "what they've promised" has ballooned to an unreasonable and probably undoable size.  This thing started in scope similar to Elite: Dangerous with more persistent elements and planetside stuff and has since turned into "you can leave your real life behind and live entirely in the world of star citizen, including sim drink-mixing"



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on October 04, 2015, 04:53:11 PM
Just when I thought this couldn't deliver any more than it already has... :popcorn:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Brolan on October 04, 2015, 05:27:19 PM
I guess we all knew at some time the wings would get ripped from the plane, this appears to be the time when the first stress fractures occur...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 04, 2015, 05:37:16 PM
I guess we all knew at some time the wings would get ripped from the plane, this appears to be the time when the first stress fractures occur...
Again, 2 years ago. Fuck, it didn't even require foresight to know this thing was gonna blow itself up.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on October 04, 2015, 06:06:02 PM
They still have a legion of fanataical fans with real money at stake.

This isn't over for a long time and probably will get quite ugly.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on October 04, 2015, 07:25:39 PM
I like how they've built up Serek Dmart as this giant boogeyman when in reality he's just a relatively harmless egotistical douche nozzle.  Even better that the Stockholm syndrome infected fanboys have bought it hook, line and sinker.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on October 04, 2015, 07:34:54 PM
In the response to The Escapist though, Roberts does actually confirm that Sandi Gardiner is his wife. Which is a thing that was hotly denied and apparently a huge secret previously.
Does anybody why this was supposed to be secret?


Because hiring your wife should be a company secret.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on October 04, 2015, 09:16:53 PM
I like how they've built up Serek Dmart as this giant boogeyman when in reality he's just a relatively harmless egotistical douche nozzle.  Even better that the Stockholm syndrome infected fanboys have bought it hook, line and sinker.

Nah. Being emotionally and financially invested doesn't matter much when it comes to Serek Dmart. He has always been notorious enough for people to hate him since the late 90s. That's the reason Robert's even tried to pin it all on Smart. Derek is publicly regarded as the bad guy so it's easy to rationalize all the hate against Star Citizen as cartoon villainy.

If someone with more positive street cred was attacking Star Citizen, Roberts would be more cautious while defending himself and many backers would question more the state of the game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on October 04, 2015, 11:07:22 PM
I think Dmart is just a convenient boogyman. its easy to dismiss legitimate concern by just accusing the doubter of siding with Dmart. The escapist however has a reputation in the Gaming industry and its a lot harder to dismiss them as bieng tied to Dmart, because they are not. So we have a full scale panic offensive with them trying to tire The Escapist to Dmart in the sight of their fans.

people have been questioning star citizen long before Dmart came along so there is legitimate reasons for the Escapisty to take an interest.

It's the cry of all ponzi schemes. They collapse because outside people started spreading illegitimate doubt about the product, so it failed. All doubt myst be crushed


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 04, 2015, 11:20:05 PM
If someone with more positive street cred was attacking Star Citizen, Roberts would be more cautious while defending himself and many backers would question more the state of the game.

Sounds like I have some work to do.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maledict on October 05, 2015, 02:00:13 AM
In the response to The Escapist though, Roberts does actually confirm that Sandi Gardiner is his wife. Which is a thing that was hotly denied and apparently a huge secret previously.
Does anybody why this was supposed to be secret?


Because hiring your wife should be a company secret.

The thing is, even in interviews they have lied about it. When his wife was interviewed as part of a "Meet the Developer" series, she talks about having to "pitch" to get her job and being grateful to Chris roberts for giving her a chance.

Her husband. She claims to have made a formal sales pitch. To her husband.

It's so clearly innappropriate and dodgy as hell just from the way they have acted about it!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on October 05, 2015, 02:34:38 AM
Who here hasn't made their wife give a formal sales pitch ?  Really ?

 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on October 05, 2015, 02:53:23 AM
I don't get it really. Why did they have to make it such a secret?

I know lots and lots of privately owned businesses from very small to multi-national where the owner has hired his wife (or on a lot of occasions his mistress) and has given her a senior position (usually Marketing or HR). It's so common for the wife or girlfriend to "help out" with the business side of things (or more likely for tax purposes) that this wouldn't even register on a nepotism scale. I guess that the IRS or SEC couldn't even be bothered to pretend they'd care about it since it is so common.

He has already hired a bunch of his relatives (including his brother) and friends and he doesn't run a publicly traded company where he'd have to adhere to some sort of corporate governence code or disclosure rules. Hell even if CIG was a publicly traded company as long as the board of directors agreed there'd be nothing particularly illegal in hiring his own wife and gving her an executive level position.

Going so far as to even pretend they aren't married is beyond fishy. Own it! If somebody complains then tell them that yes you have in fact married a hot ex-model and watch them get red in the face from envy when they realize there's nothing they can do about it about any of it. Channel your inner John Romero and make them your bitch.

Or pretend that your wife is not married to you and make everyone think that there is something more sinister going on than you thinking with your dick and trying your bst to legally evade taxes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 05, 2015, 03:17:26 AM
Actually, it wasn't a bad idea on their part. She (and them, in general) would have gotten SO MUCH MORE online harassment in the past three years if this were a known fact. Now of course shit hit the fan, but for three years they got to live without all the crap that this would have brought upon them. Some people (mostly men, but not just men) don't mind what's being said on the internet, but not everyone has the same thick skin and to some others that's actually hard to deal with. Even more so considering they have a daughter, I am pretty sure the idea was to keep the family (which as every violent movie teaches) away from the nasty mob becaue the family is vulnerable and makes you vulnerable.

Free to laugh at it, but even with my disgust for Chris Roberts I can see why they thought it would be a better idea to try and keep the notion of them being a family (again, there's a little girl in this too) away from the cesspit that is the internet, and not because of nepotism, but just because so many anonymous humans love to poke at women or to poke at a man by attacking his family. Clearly, it wouldn't have worked in the long term but gave them some breathing room for almost three years, so...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on October 05, 2015, 03:23:17 AM
Considering how irrational and reactionary many misogynists are I can believe that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Amarr HM on October 05, 2015, 03:25:19 AM
Martin Galway shared this on his FB page - The Excess Of 'Star Citizen' (http://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2015/10/02/the-excess-of-star-citizen-is-the-price-gaming-pays-for-upholding-the-great-man-myth/)

Not exactly an attack, but definitely some sort of riposte.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 05, 2015, 03:34:24 AM
Right, but they will say that Galway hasn't been a CIG employee for more than a year now so he must be disgruntled too  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on October 05, 2015, 03:40:21 AM
"attributing the creation of something as complex as a game to one person is reductive and not at all accurate". Which by the way is the whole point of Metal Gear Solid V's narrative arc and narative design. A point that went over the heads of all of MGS's fans and most of the reviewers.

It makes me sad when such an article comes out because the points he's making are so basic and so well known in the field of managing large projects yet so many leaders still don't acknowledge those basic facts.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 05, 2015, 04:16:08 AM
Here's a lawyer sympathetic to Star Citizen:

https://popehat.com/2015/10/04/in-space-no-one-can-hear-you-threaten-lawsuits/


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on October 05, 2015, 04:45:09 AM
Sort of sympathetic in that he thinks Serek is an idiot who should be ignored, but he pretty much rips Cloud Imperium apart in the second half.

"If you know what you're doing, you bring in the litigators before you start running your mouth. The litigator is there to tell you, in the most supportive and affirming way possible, to shut the fuck up. That way your CEO and key fact witness isn't writing long, angry emails about the facts of the situation, probably getting some of them wrong and probably saying things the legal significance of which he doesn't know. It's not easy to tell the CEO to shut up and stop writing things if you're his underling. Some people get to be CEO by having a Trumpian level of self-regard that makes Serek Dmart look like Dobby the House Elf. If you're a sensible GC, you use your outside litigator as the bad cop to control your difficult executive. That way your executive doesn't do don't-take-me-seriously things like post angry messages referring to written statements as 'slanderous'".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 05, 2015, 04:48:34 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/utzTCyo.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on October 05, 2015, 05:44:50 AM
Sorry, I fell into the sarchasm.

Though honestly anybody who starts off an analysis of Star Citizen savaging Serek first is about as sympathetic as they're going to find at this point outside their rabid horde of ponzi victims.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sparky on October 05, 2015, 05:55:34 AM
I think goons have the best take on this drama

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGRsEF953n0


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: WayAbvPar on October 05, 2015, 08:37:40 AM
I think goons have the best take on this drama

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGRsEF953n0

 :heart:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Shannow on October 05, 2015, 08:51:12 AM
We're going to need more popcorn (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rthHSISkM7A)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on October 05, 2015, 11:20:15 AM
Martin Galway shared this on his FB page - The Excess Of 'Star Citizen' (http://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2015/10/02/the-excess-of-star-citizen-is-the-price-gaming-pays-for-upholding-the-great-man-myth/)

Not exactly an attack, but definitely some sort of riposte.

Time for Roberts to threaten another lawsuit it seems.  Every day, he becomes a little more like Serek Dmart.  All he has to do to complete the circle is for SC to turn out to be an absolute pile of broken, buggy shit, just like everything DS has ever released.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on October 05, 2015, 12:07:35 PM
I think goons have the best take on this drama

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGRsEF953n0

 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 05, 2015, 02:23:04 PM
Whoa, it's like watching Albino Black Sheep come back to life


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on October 05, 2015, 04:53:19 PM
That was great. My newgrounds memories of yore came flooding back to me.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 05, 2015, 05:01:52 PM
So, is the ultimatum to the Escapist over?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on October 05, 2015, 05:04:05 PM
Well, they are not backing down (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/14727-The-Escapist-Explains-Its-Star-Citizen-Sources-Vetting-and-Respo). RELEASE THE LAWYERS. :drill:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on October 05, 2015, 05:06:47 PM
Never has the extension (https://github.com/DaveRandom/cloud-to-butt-mozilla) been more amusing than Butt Imperium Games.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on October 05, 2015, 06:44:12 PM
Well, they are not backing down (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/14727-The-Escapist-Explains-Its-Star-Citizen-Sources-Vetting-and-Respo). RELEASE THE LAWYERS. :drill:

The Comments are pure gold. Apperently anonymous sources means that you are really only using the Dmart as a source and they repeat that again and again.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 05, 2015, 07:04:13 PM
No one really questioned my McQuaid shit because it happened after the implosion. Right now, DMart, Escapist, etc is trying to do it before the implosion.

Basically, they need to get juicy actual interesting insider information or it's all just gonna be shit I literally could've made up just by guesstimation (and therefore uninteresting).

Absolutely nothing has been revealed thus far that is even the tiniest bit surprising. Meh.

(edit: the money is going somewhere, fucking find out where, damn)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MahrinSkel on October 05, 2015, 07:12:49 PM
I am not going to comment on any of the facts or persons involved here, I don't want to get that close to this clusterfuck (maybe I'm getting old, maybe it's a comment on how HOLY FUCK DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER this is). But I've seen a fair number of shops with toxic cultures and rampant distrust, and I will say that if those anonymous sources are for real, and not Escapist getting trolled, then there will be no shortage of insiders contacting them right now.

--Dave


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 05, 2015, 07:18:01 PM
I'm sure they have no shortage of insiders.

The problem is, very few have anything interesting to say.

You just wait until a certain company falls apart. You just wait.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on October 05, 2015, 07:29:57 PM
I'm sure they have no shortage of insiders.

The problem is, very few have anything interesting to say.

You just wait until a certain company falls apart. You just wait.

The money is not *going* somewhere, it's *gone* somewhere.

I would guess we are about T-minus a month away from a mainstream press article rather like this classic: http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/stormy-weather-6427649

And T-minus 2 or 3 years away from the expose book on Kickstarter/crowdfunding that focuses on Star Citizen.

And there will be always, through it all, people who blame it all on the folks who didn't truly believe.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on October 05, 2015, 07:42:04 PM
Well of course, we're lost potential sales.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on October 05, 2015, 09:17:43 PM
Only because we believed Dmart.

I REALLY wanna know where the money has gone...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Furiously on October 06, 2015, 12:15:19 AM
Only because we believed Dmart.

I REALLY wanna know where the money has gone...

Do you think he wasn't trying to make a game?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on October 06, 2015, 12:26:57 AM
Yeah, it doesn't have to be hookers and blow.  A mis-managed project can easily end up wasting tons and tons of cash, this is not new.

But I do still hope it is hookers and blow.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on October 06, 2015, 02:41:35 AM
(edit: the money is going somewhere, fucking find out where, damn)

The are at it since 2011 and have to support a massive dev team spread out over four studios all over the world. This isn't some massive conspiracy involving secret mansions full of hookers and blow. The money simply went to cover expenses, fixed costs  and cost of labour for their massive AAA-like operation. With a 150+ employee company it's easy to spend a seven digit figure just on wages alone.

Since there is no way in which they can get more money to come in than they are spending each month to cover the costs of employee wages, office space and overhead costs to keep the lights on in their 150+ people company, they'll eventually run out of money. Or already have.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on October 06, 2015, 02:58:25 AM
(edit: the money is going somewhere, fucking find out where, damn)

The are at it since 2011 and have to support a massive dev team spread out over four studios all over the world. This isn't some massive conspiracy involving secret mansions full of hookers and blow. The money simply went to cover expenses, fixed costs  and cost of labour for their massive AAA-like operation. With a 150+ employee company it's easy to spend a seven digit figure just on wages alone.

Since there is no way in which they can get more money to come in than they are spending each month to cover the costs of employee wages, office space and overhead costs to keep the lights on in their 150+ people company, they'll eventually run out of money. Or already have.

This. ~300 employees means that by a very rough rule of thumb, their burn rate is about 3-4M per month (you can estimate by guessing what the average salary is - I've assumed 85k - and then doubling that to account for other overheads like licences, equipment, offices, benefits and so on). Even $900 digital spaceships don't keep the lights on for very long at that rate.

That rate also assumes that they aren't doing anything crazy with their money like fitting out $2M custom buses, paying expensive lawyers to yell at DMart or setting up Hollywood-quality soundstages in the CEO's mansion.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 06, 2015, 03:06:11 AM
With a 150+ employee company it's easy to spend a seven digit figure just on wages alone.

262 employees they say.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on October 06, 2015, 03:21:54 AM
This. ~300 employees means that by a very rough rule of thumb, their burn rate is about 3-4M per month (you can estimate by guessing what the average salary is - I've assumed 85k - and then doubling that to account for other overheads like licences, equipment, offices, benefits and so on). Even $900 digital spaceships don't keep the lights on for very long at that rate.
85K average salary seems very generous.  I'm sure they are blowing through millions of dollars a month though.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on October 06, 2015, 03:30:22 AM
With a 150+ employee company it's easy to spend a seven digit figure just on wages alone.

262 employees they say.

And they're hiring more, which concerns me because depending on how many new people they're looking for can delay the game even further. But let's not forget they're receiving funding from angel or institutional investors. How much more funding they have on top of that 90 million from the public is unknown.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on October 06, 2015, 03:33:26 AM
Roughly estimating their burn rate is easy. There's a rule of thumb even experienced business owners like to use. Take the average wage, double it. That is roughly what the employee costs you including all taxes and social security, healthcare and 401(k) expenses. Triple it, that's roughly what you need to make to keep afloat if you consider all of your operational costs including marketing, manufacturing and R&D/product management.

So given the 85k figure from IanC and the number of employees from Falconeer they burn through roughly 44.5 million dollars per year or 3.7 million per month and would need a revenue stream of roughly 66.8 million dollars or 5.6 million per month to have something approaching a sustainable business. Given what I have heard about the business 85k average wage seems rather high. It's probably closer to 50k given what we've learned from other imploded dev projects over the last years. This would still mean that CIG spends roughly 2.1 million dollars per month on its massive operation.

With that churn rate they will run out of money sooner rather than later. Even the hard core star citizen brigade is not large or stupid (or wealthy) enough to spend 3.1 million dollars per month on virtual spaceships to give CIG a sustainable revenue stream. If they'd want that they should have done Candy Crush instead.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 06, 2015, 03:43:59 AM
With those numbers, every instance of largesse is significant. So it could literally be one month or a year until trouble starts.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 06, 2015, 04:03:11 AM
According to their own day by day pledge tracker, in the last five days since releasing the 900$ new ships they earned $1M . Just yestrday the money seemed to have gone back to the usual background noise of about 15k per day, but the spike netted them 1M in five days. Still not enough to pay for the estimated 2M a month you folks mentioned up there.


(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3584773/Star%20Citizen%20pledges%20September%20October%202015.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on October 06, 2015, 04:10:02 AM
The way Bungie does it is sustainable, the way Frontier developments does it is sustainable. Hell the way Blizzard does it is sustainable.

Define a managable featureset that you'd like to see in Version 1.0 of your game given your time and budget constraints (We'd like to do another Privateer)
Split that feature set into must have features (Privateer Single Player Campaign or the reason people gave you money in the first place) and "nice to have" features (online mode, hookers and blow), so that you can cut content from even the "must have" featureset if your estimates turn out to be wrong or you run into unforseen issues along the way (chance of something like this happening 100%)
Manage expectations of your fan base accordingly.

Push everything else to future content updates or Version 1.5/2.0. Those future content updates will then be finaced from sales of your first release.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on October 06, 2015, 04:18:01 AM
Yeah but I'm with Schild on that one.

CIG is a privately held company. They don't need to disclose shit. What they disclose doesn't even need to be accurate or true. As long as what they report to the IRS and their investors (if they have any) is accurate they could basically claim that Scrooge McDuck himself bought a flotilla of capital ships for $10k a pop without technicaly doing anything illegal. If they use those numbers to mislead investors then that's fraud. If they use those numbers to claim they have the largest dick among all of the indie developers though they only make a fool of themselves.

By this time I'd trust their own donation tracker about as much as a condom from a gas station restroom vending machine.

Even if the numbers are accurate then -as you said - it won't be enough to offset their operational costs to get a $1m cash infusion every few months though.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on October 06, 2015, 04:34:45 AM
By this time I'd trust their own donation tracker about as much as a condom from a gas station restroom vending machine.
Had some rough life experiences?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on October 06, 2015, 04:36:43 AM
By this time I'd trust their own donation tracker about as much as a condom from a gas station restroom vending machine.
Had some rough life experiences?

Since I don't trust condoms from a gas station restroom vending machine, in that particular case I haven't.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on October 06, 2015, 05:27:00 AM
As long as what they report to the IRS and their investors (if they have any) is accurate they could basically claim that Scrooge McDuck himself bought a flotilla of capital ships for $10k a pop without technicaly doing anything illegal. If they use those numbers to mislead investors then that's fraud. If they use those numbers to claim they have the largest dick among all of the indie developers though they only make a fool of themselves.
You could argue that making up such numbers to create impression they have lot of people heavily investing in them and keeping them afloat is actually misleading real people who wouldn't know any better into giving them money for virtual spaceships because hey, everyone else appears to do so and it looks the company is doing fine. So no, claiming such shit is shady snake oil peddling territory at best ("millions satisfied customers!") and has little to do with dick sizes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on October 06, 2015, 07:09:17 AM
This. ~300 employees means that by a very rough rule of thumb, their burn rate is about 3-4M per month (you can estimate by guessing what the average salary is - I've assumed 85k - and then doubling that to account for other overheads like licences, equipment, offices, benefits and so on). Even $900 digital spaceships don't keep the lights on for very long at that rate.
85K average salary seems very generous.  I'm sure they are blowing through millions of dollars a month though.

Yeah, it is but it also includes the Executives.

Executive pay is also why you keep it hush-hush that your wife and brother in law are executives. Suddenly those high 5 and 6-figure salaries look a lot more suspicious.

If a CEO pays himself 250k a year for an undelivered product, you get suspicious. If it's 175 for him and 125 for the "business development" lead it's a lot less eyebrow raising. Even if all that money is going into the same bank account.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on October 06, 2015, 08:27:50 AM
This. ~300 employees means that by a very rough rule of thumb, their burn rate is about 3-4M per month (you can estimate by guessing what the average salary is - I've assumed 85k - and then doubling that to account for other overheads like licences, equipment, offices, benefits and so on). Even $900 digital spaceships don't keep the lights on for very long at that rate.
85K average salary seems very generous.  I'm sure they are blowing through millions of dollars a month though.

AAA programmers and artists at a regular/senior level are probably making more than that. Designers who aren't leads, most QA and non-dev staff who aren't senior management are probably on less. The leads in all departments, directors and senior management are going to be on more than that unless Roberts has staffed up exclusively with true believers who will take a paycut to work on the game of their dreams.

Overall I'd say that 85k is realistic. Maybe 70% of the company is making less than that (and probably half those people are making a lot less) but the top end will bring the average up sharply.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on October 06, 2015, 09:31:34 AM
So its very possible that this thing is burning down simply because Roberts is an arrogant prick.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tazelbain on October 06, 2015, 10:01:35 AM
Well, if you were in his position wouldn't you rather blame failure on other people for "harassing" you or because you are a prick than admit it was built on bullshit promises.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Fabricated on October 06, 2015, 10:03:30 AM
As retarded as the videogame industry is, if their burn rate wasn't so high I wouldn't have been surprised to see them make some deal with a publisher to continue financing development since the first $90M was covered by suckers.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on October 06, 2015, 10:06:20 AM
Didn't they also spend millions on some fancy rotoscoping set up? Whatever it was, 4 studios in multiple countries is just a stupid waste of money, simply on the administrative costs alone. For an indie that is crowdfunded, you might as well have filmed a Youtube video of you burning hundreds.

Ineptitude mixed with megalomania and arrogance is expensive.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 06, 2015, 01:12:59 PM
Break out the popcorn, Serek made a new blog post!

http://www.dereksmart.org/2015/10/star-citizen-the-endgame/


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 06, 2015, 01:18:27 PM
Hmm, nice tidbit of info with that S42 "leak"; apparently, beside Gary Oldman, it will feature virtual spaceships  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tannhauser on October 06, 2015, 02:47:54 PM
First DS says:

"A lot has been written about the hype machine, the media’s culpability in all of this, as well as ignorance of the signs that this project was in trouble and destined to fail. But I’m not going to dwell on that because I will leave that up to the gaming industry and gamers to point the finger and assign blame."

Then the very next sentence,

"Chris Roberts killed this project when he changed from the original “vision 1.0” to the current “vision 2.0” they embarked on."

 :why_so_serious: :grin: :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sophismata on October 06, 2015, 03:28:00 PM
storify.com/QHStone/derek-smart-invents-feud-with-randi-harper

This all stems from some GamerGate shit or something semi-related to the Star Citizen crap (don't really follow social media shitstorms and don't care all that much). I just wanted to say, I didn't realise how much of a loser DS is. Now I understand why the "Serek Dmart" filter is in place.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 06, 2015, 03:29:54 PM
Typical DS  :grin:

Anyway, the only relevant stuff is the $20K cappuccino machine. Must be good.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: koro on October 06, 2015, 03:39:18 PM
That rate also assumes that they aren't doing anything crazy with their money like fitting out $2M custom buses, paying expensive lawyers to yell at DMart or setting up Hollywood-quality soundstages in the CEO's mansion.

Didn't they set up some massively expensive mocap studio?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on October 06, 2015, 04:02:22 PM
That rate also assumes that they aren't doing anything crazy with their money like fitting out $2M custom buses, paying expensive lawyers to yell at DMart or setting up Hollywood-quality soundstages in the CEO's mansion.

Didn't they set up some massively expensive mocap studio?

Yes, and they appear to be doing the second one too (the bus was a thing that Mark Kern spent money on for Firefall).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on October 06, 2015, 05:43:16 PM
(the bus was a thing that Mark Kern spent money on for Firefall).
I'm a little surprised Mark Kern isn't part of SC team yet, tbh. If these reports are true he'd fit right in, management style and all :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on October 06, 2015, 06:01:36 PM
There can only be one Chief Screamer.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on October 07, 2015, 12:58:20 AM
Maybe he could be VP of Scamming then?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on October 07, 2015, 04:02:19 AM
Better to be President of Scamming.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Fabricated on October 07, 2015, 06:18:15 AM
storify.com/QHStone/derek-smart-invents-feud-with-randi-harper

This all stems from some GamerGate shit or something semi-related to the Star Citizen crap (don't really follow social media shitstorms and don't care all that much). I just wanted to say, I didn't realise how much of a loser DS is. Now I understand why the "Serek Dmart" filter is in place.
To be fair this is one of those win-win things since Harper is a sack of shit too.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tebonas on October 07, 2015, 06:27:36 AM
Are you hoping the - prevents his automatic scripts that scour the internet from finding us or are we hoping for the additional fun when he does?   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on October 07, 2015, 07:09:06 AM
I thought further back up the thread, Schild posted a screenshot showing he already found us and this thread....


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: UnSub on October 07, 2015, 07:10:22 AM
As retarded as the videogame industry is, if their burn rate wasn't so high I wouldn't have been surprised to see them make some deal with a publisher to continue financing development since the first $90M was covered by suckers.

Alternatively, Roberts is so convinced in his outcomes that going to a publisher doesn't look like an option. Or refuses to hand over the level of control a publisher would want.

And if they do go down that path... the absolute screaming they'll need to deal with from the fans who backed them as 'independent' will be immense. Lots of requests for refunds that they'll have to deny.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on October 07, 2015, 07:40:13 AM
As retarded as the videogame industry is, if their burn rate wasn't so high I wouldn't have been surprised to see them make some deal with a publisher to continue financing development since the first $90M was covered by suckers.

Alternatively, Roberts is so convinced in his outcomes that going to a publisher doesn't look like an option. Or refuses to hand over the level of control a publisher would want.

And if they do go down that path... the absolute screaming they'll need to deal with from the fans who backed them as 'independent' will be immense. Lots of requests for refunds that they'll have to deny.

Yes, once a publisher is involved they are going to do all kinds of terrible stuff like insist on a scope document, nail down what the MVP features are, set milestones and release dates etc. All of which gets in the way of the core business of selling $900 spaceships that only exist as concept art.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 07, 2015, 07:53:08 AM
Also as Dmart said in a moment of lucidity, SC includes the baggage of 90 million worth of pre-paid content. Unless it's through a bankruptcy fire sale, I don't think a publisher can extract the game without getting those obligations along for the ride.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on October 07, 2015, 08:12:03 AM
I thought further back up the thread, Schild posted a screenshot showing he already found us and this thread....
Yes he has. Doesn't mean we need to keep triggering his Google Alerts, though.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 07, 2015, 08:50:13 AM
it probably doesn't matter and he'll be checking this thread compulsively off and on for months


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 07, 2015, 09:00:06 AM
I don't think so. He would be posting if he were. Unless he's banned, in that case Schild should expect to be sued anytime soon.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on October 07, 2015, 09:23:34 AM
So its very possible that this thing is burning down simply because Roberts is an arrogant prick.
In all honesty, there is no reason they cannot make a game that does 90% of the core features they advertised, as well as some of the more crazy nitty gritty systems, for $90 Million.  I mean, as Falconeer posted above, you can make an engine that does all that core shit for almost no money.  Hell, battlefield 1942 did it forever ago.  Your basically just taking those mechanics and expanding them out to a huge, semi-persistent world.  That last part is the biggest challenge, but totally doable with modern tech.

This whole thing is falling apart specifically because of incompetence and mismanagement.  Nothing they originally promised is really that hard to do, especially with an AAA budget.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on October 07, 2015, 12:36:10 PM
But when was the last time a AAA project came out within 3 years without being buggy nonsense like Assassin's Creed IV. CiG need another 1-2 years to polish everything according to the market's normal expectations of not too buggy quality.


If this project does fail I hope Nintendo picks it up. They could salvage a project like this and the drama would be beyond insane.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on October 07, 2015, 12:44:17 PM
.........what?

Barring the fact Nintendo has sort of fucked up everything video game related for many years now...... this type of game is so far outside of the type of thing Nintendo does, that very statement seems crazy town to me.  May as well say Zynga could possibly pick this up and salvage the game.

Like, honestly not trying to be a dick at all, but if this game was an ink blot, and you asked me to tell you the opposite thing that came to mind when I saw it, Nintendo would probably be the first thing I said.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on October 07, 2015, 12:49:55 PM
Well advantages of picking this up would be you would have a dev studio in place with (presumably) no debt to absorb. The disadvantage would be that the projected profit margins would be small. You have have a bunch of rabid idiots who have already bought the game and would scream blue murder if forced to "pay for it again." That means the expected cashflow from the full product would be lower. They would also have to collate the various art assets that Roberts tossed away because he was acting like a Genius and see if there is anything usable in there to cut costs.

Plus they would have to shove Roberts in a playpen away from a computer as he would be declaring everything released as totally awful, which would have the rabid fanbois up in arms and again depress the future profit margin.

Bottom line is that Star citizen is a bad buy. The progected cash return from such an investment would have to be concidered very carefully. Plus Roberts probably would not let his claws get off of it unless the money situation is so bad that the thing would be loaded in debt.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Gimfain on October 07, 2015, 01:49:10 PM
I would buy it just for the book and documentary rights. Then I would make a kickstarter for both of those things.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on October 07, 2015, 03:11:15 PM
No debt? What? I expect they have lots of debt.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on October 07, 2015, 03:15:15 PM
CiG need another 1-2 years to polish everything according to the market's normal expectations of not too buggy quality.
"1-2 years" relies on there being a turd to polish in the first place. When there's none.

I have strong impression lot of their problems actually stem from trying to polish every little piece they squeeze out too early and too hard, then having to flush it weeks down the road when Roberts wakes up on the wrong side of the bed and decides the piece doesn't shine quite right.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on October 07, 2015, 06:30:12 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/2ZDvUVq.png?1)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on October 07, 2015, 07:16:12 PM
Should've said yes; with any luck you'd be called as witness to give testimony on harmful effect DS had on their project :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on October 07, 2015, 08:10:09 PM
No debt? What? I expect they have lots of debt.

I assumed they would have had enough income up to now to run without credit. If they have done the classic move of borrowing lots of money with the expectation of getting all the cash via the marks, then they are in big big trouble and it would add another possible explanation to their panic.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on October 08, 2015, 04:13:17 AM
An actual letter from an actual lawyer (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4497650/15-10-02_Response_To_RSI_Cease_Desist.pdf), though this one directed towards RSI.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 08, 2015, 04:58:14 AM
There's a typo in that letter. I know it's silly, but it always surprises me when I see stuff like that in apprently-so-important documents where every word has been chosen so carefully.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on October 08, 2015, 05:08:03 AM
That letter seems very concise and it will be interesting to see how Chris Roberts' (lawyer) responds to it and whether he can counter the points in that letter in any meaningful way.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Brolan on October 08, 2015, 05:46:08 AM
This lawyer seems to know his business, maybe it will shut up the Roberts clan somewhat.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on October 08, 2015, 08:27:49 AM
I fully expect Roberts to fire back in true Smart-ian fashion.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: WayAbvPar on October 08, 2015, 08:38:52 AM
I fully expect Roberts to fire back in true Smart-ian fashion.  :why_so_serious:

Not to be confused with smart fashion.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 08, 2015, 08:40:30 AM
Smars Attacks!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 08, 2015, 08:45:44 AM
(https://nerdcorecomicsandmore.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/internet-memes-humans1.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on October 08, 2015, 09:34:22 AM
An actual letter from an actual lawyer (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4497650/15-10-02_Response_To_RSI_Cease_Desist.pdf), though this one directed towards RSI.

Had to do a double-take on the address; my mom used to work for a different law firm in the same building.  Wonder if she knows this guy.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Montague on October 08, 2015, 09:50:13 AM
This lawyer seems to know his business, maybe it will shut up the Roberts clan somewhat.

Not shutting up the true believers on Reddit. Supposedly because the copy DS put up is unsigned means that it's not real or something like that. These people make the pre-release Warhammer Online fanboys look positively jaded and skeptical.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on October 08, 2015, 09:52:39 AM
Tell them if you open it in Adobe Illustrator you can see the layers, and that means its a forgery.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on October 08, 2015, 09:52:47 AM
Is it me, or did Dmart just lead CR by the nose right into his litigious hands?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on October 08, 2015, 09:56:01 AM
Well, if he was planning that, all he would have to do is think "what would make ME reach for my lawyers and make an ass of myself?" and do exactly that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on October 08, 2015, 11:00:31 AM
Well, if he was planning that, all he would have to do is think "what would make ME reach for my lawyers and make an ass of myself?" and do exactly that.

A Lawyer's Office.

Serek (for it is he): I've got a plan to fuck with Chris Roberts!
Lawyer: Cool, let's hear it.
Serek: We need to goad him into doing something dumb and possibly actionable.
Lawyer: <nods>
Serek: Put yourself in his lawyer's shoes for a moment. Imagine that your client is a thin-skinned moron who likes to wave around pointless legal threats.
Lawyer: That's... a thing I can do...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 08, 2015, 02:17:13 PM
A "supercut" of a very cool portion of today's "Around the Verse" weekly show, involving explosions  and the so called "GOST" system, which is basically how the engine simulates damage to interiors when the ship is being hit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10TAH5LVCow&feature=youtu.be

Particles!!!!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 08, 2015, 07:12:15 PM
You have have a bunch of rabid idiots who have already bought the game and would scream blue murder if forced to "pay for it again."

the best option for the game going forward would be to purposefully ignore what would please these rabid idiots.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on October 08, 2015, 07:24:12 PM
So I take it Roberts didn't initiate legal action against The Escapist yet, contrary to his supposed "deadline" of last Monday?  I thought so.  What a fucking shit pump.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on October 08, 2015, 08:33:36 PM
They're going to add legal action as a "stretch goal" and sell a virtual spaceship for space lawyering first before they do that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 08, 2015, 09:18:48 PM
Multicrew with your law firm partners in the Aegis Dynamics Barrator™ only $900 on the flash sale date and $1200 for the version with leather seating


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 09, 2015, 01:56:56 AM
unintentionally relevant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10TAH5LVCow


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 09, 2015, 02:03:32 AM
That looks beautiful! Wouldn't it be great if one day someone made a videogame like that?!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on October 09, 2015, 02:20:39 AM
The letter from SD's lawyer sounds like something an actual lawyer would write.

Signifies the difference between an out-of-house counsel that has actual experience dealing with courts and civil/criminal suits and your in-house general counsel that usually only does contract stuff.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on October 09, 2015, 02:30:08 AM
In all honesty, there is no reason they cannot make a game that does 90% of the core features they advertised, as well as some of the more crazy nitty gritty systems, for $90 Million.  I mean, as Falconeer posted above, you can make an engine that does all that core shit for almost no money.  Hell, battlefield 1942 did it forever ago.  Your basically just taking those mechanics and expanding them out to a huge, semi-persistent world.  That last part is the biggest challenge, but totally doable with modern tech.

This whole thing is falling apart specifically because of incompetence and mismanagement.  Nothing they originally promised is really that hard to do, especially with an AAA budget.

This isn't really true. Huge scale is a problem all on its own. Game engines don't scale infinitely, you can't just start by saying, ok, we'll open a map ten billion Unreal Units square and start from there. Bf1942 had big maps and a lot of interoperability but the maps weren't as big as solar systems and the structures didn't range in size from personal vehicles all the way up to capital spaceships. If you want to have big space battles then you build an engine that works well on the macro scale but has very little granularity, if you want FPS action then you get an engine with a high degree of precision but at a cost in performance that won't let you scale it past a certain point. There's a reason for all the design compromises in EVE Online and it's not just due to an ancient codebase.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on October 09, 2015, 05:15:54 AM
The use of "Unreal Units" is an excellent example because it underscores WHY this game can't be made as-sold.

Scale.

They want to offer seamless transitions from a personal to a galaxy-wide scale. So your units of measure are at the personal level. Let's say they "round up" to the nearest Decimeter for their standard unit.

A standard doorway is 9.2dm wide x 20.4dm high (~36") So you're already at 9 units x 20 units for each doorway. No big deal, right? Memory handles that just fine it's small potatoes.

A small ship, an interceptor, is 110 x 100 x 30 units. Ok, still nothing. See, this is working out great. Even the largest ships are only 3720 units long. No big deal!
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/ship-specs

Except now you have to get out at planetary, system and galaxy scales in the same units.

Mercury is one of our smaller planets and closest to the sun. It's 4,880km or 48.8 million dm wide. It sits 57.9km from the sun, that's 579 billion dm. Well shit, that's a lot of resolution there. Even if it's all empty it's a lot of big numbers.

But computers can handle all that. They're great at big numbers.

Except that's also a shitload of polygons to resolve at distances you'll never see them but they need to be tracked. Since it's "seamless" at all scales, the silverware, the glass of whiskey and your airline stewardess all need to be modeled and rendered and tracked across that half-trillion unit scale. For one tiny planet very near the star in one solar system. For one ship.

Yeah. good luck.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on October 09, 2015, 05:54:27 AM
You don't necessarily need to argue about interplanetary scale distances.

Your engine defines what you can do.

Bethesda used Gamebryo up to and including Skyrim because neither ID Tech nor Unreal could handle Open World RPG type stuff, being wholly optimized for First Person Shooters. Bethesda's games need to keep track of thousands of persitent in game objects. If you pick an object up it's never going to magically respawn, a killed enemy stays dead etc. Compare that to a first person shooter that at most has to keep track of maybe 64 objects at a time. Objects that get unloaded/despawned once you cross a loading point or travel a certain distance.

On the other hand RPGs never quite reach the visual fidelity or low latency gameplay you'd expect from a shooter because it has to spend more of the RAM to actually track persistent in game objects. This goes for all game realted infrastructure as well. The type of database and server architecture that fits perfectly to a Battlefield game are probably quite crap for an MMORPG. Blizzard took the better part of two years - after launch - to get its database and server structure in order and there are quite a few things it still can't do due to the initial assumptions and design decisions Blizzard made over ten years ago.

Or take GTA V as another example. The visuals in that engine look great and it performs competently. The resulting game is a jack of all trades type of deal though. Shooting mechanics aren't as crisp as they'd be on a dedicated 1st or 3rd person shooter. Driving mechanics aren't anywhere near of the type of mechanics you'd get in a Forza game. This is true for almost all of the game mechanics and mini games included in V. A $250 million+ effort. It also makes heavy use of resource management optimizations like how it aggressively despawns and unloads objects as soon as you look in a different direction.

Chris Roberts' claims for Star Citizen have always been a pipe dream from a technical standpoint.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on October 09, 2015, 06:08:23 AM
It's actually quite interesting how subtly - or not so subtly - developers design content in a way that gives you the illusion of a persistent world even though most things vanish once you reach certain checkpoints. The classic is blocking off acess to prior parts of a level. The ledge you can jump down but not climb back up. The door that closes and locks after you go through etc. Loading triggers that are conceiled by animations or in-game cut scenes. Even using respawn as a game mechanic so that you don't need to keep track of the things the player has already killed. The fact that Elite Dangerous only models the parts of the cockpit you can actually see.

That's also what I like about the switch to new gen, that it's no longer about just cranking up the graphical fidelity but making it so you can do more. There's a reason most last gen shooters had levels where you just had one path from A to B. That#s about the only thing those engines could handle given the graphical fidelity required.

Changes to those parts of the engines interests me more than just having 'more graphics'



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on October 09, 2015, 07:44:19 AM
If I remember both cases right, they're doing the (logical) thing that EVE is also doing to handle this -- they have the giant-ass space getting (either dynamically or in fixed manner) broken into smaller cells which are then handled like your typical scale game. It's not magic, just not something you see done often because most games don't do giant-ass settings as they have nowhere near the amount of hands needed to populate such thing with content.

Re: being defined by the engine, that hinges mainly on how much work you're willing to put in it, to enhance the basic functionality. Koreans been doing MMOs in Unreal for years while Western gamers were all like "lol, Unreal is only for shooters" (Lineage 2 was early case of that) Similarly see Dragon Age 3 grafted on Frostbite which originally comes with none of BioWare's usual gimmicks.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on October 09, 2015, 10:30:21 AM
Except that's also a shitload of polygons to resolve at distances you'll never see them but they need to be tracked. Since it's "seamless" at all scales, the silverware, the glass of whiskey and your airline stewardess all need to be modeled and rendered and tracked across that half-trillion unit scale. For one tiny planet very near the star in one solar system. For one ship.

Ehhh.  In real life, game engines handle that sort of thing by having "seams" where you can't see them.  Like, once a texture is far enough away from you that you can't literally can't detect the difference due to raster limitations, it shifts to a lower-res version.  Ditto for models.  So there are "seams" where fidelity is reduced, but for all practical purposes it's "seamless" because you can't see it happen.  Like having large seamless game worlds with no load times -- there are still "zones" that are being loaded and unloaded, it's just happening in the background before you get there so you have the illusion of continuity.  That particular sort of thing isn't revolutionary.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 09, 2015, 10:51:31 AM
Seamless exploding corridor tech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpXKH1ndjBs&feature=youtu.be


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on October 09, 2015, 11:12:31 AM
Except that's also a shitload of polygons to resolve at distances you'll never see them but they need to be tracked. Since it's "seamless" at all scales, the silverware, the glass of whiskey and your airline stewardess all need to be modeled and rendered and tracked across that half-trillion unit scale. For one tiny planet very near the star in one solar system. For one ship.

Ehhh.  In real life, game engines handle that sort of thing by having "seams" where you can't see them.  Like, once a texture is far enough away from you that you can't literally can't detect the difference due to raster limitations, it shifts to a lower-res version.  Ditto for models.  So there are "seams" where fidelity is reduced, but for all practical purposes it's "seamless" because you can't see it happen.  Like having large seamless game worlds with no load times -- there are still "zones" that are being loaded and unloaded, it's just happening in the background before you get there so you have the illusion of continuity.  That particular sort of thing isn't revolutionary.

Between similar scales, yes. Solved problem. This is a difference of scales, though. There's some natural transition points but it's not just unloading and loading model assets and textures. It's the scale of the functions also changing on the fly. Your draw distance is what determines where things load/ unload.

Ok so change engines at those transition points:  Space to Solar System; Solar System to Planet ; Planet to Ship; Ship to Room

Unless I've misunderstood something they've sold that you'll be able to affect things on the Room Level from the Space Level. Modeling that a laser or missile that punctures a ship sends cargo/ people floating through space, right?

So how's that working? What's the engine that currently does THAT level of transition and model sharing between engine components? This isn't a solved problem, it's a new one. Modeling what happens at two levels at the same time. "Ship" and "Person/ Room" to decide what happens and what gets blown out, then pushing that to the 3rd level of "space."

All seamlessly without loading screens AND handled by a 2013 PC, since that's when shit started to go off the rails.  If that transition happens at the hull breach or docking port, how do you unload all of the ship as you're sucked out the hatch? What about when one ship rams another or two.. or three. Where does it determine, "Ok time to start modeling the glasses on ship#4 in ship #1, #2, & #3's machines as well." and how does it do that without fucking any of the play experience of all of those ships due to lag.

Now add on, "Oh by the way a 5 person carrier was one of those ships, so it's actually 8 people's machines. Also three fighters launched from the carrier while it was being rammed."

Yeah, these aren't solved problems.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on October 09, 2015, 11:43:25 AM
It essentially takes the scaling problem of Even (mini mini ships vs large space stations, vs extremely large ships vs planets and suns) and adds even more to it to go to the individual character level. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 09, 2015, 11:54:32 AM
They could maybe bodge it just by playing cosmetic effects like in that video.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on October 09, 2015, 12:21:25 PM
Ok so change engines at those transition points:  Space to Solar System; Solar System to Planet ; Planet to Ship; Ship to Room

Unless I've misunderstood something they've sold that you'll be able to affect things on the Room Level from the Space Level. Modeling that a laser or missile that punctures a ship sends cargo/ people floating through space, right?

So how's that working? What's the engine that currently does THAT level of transition and model sharing between engine components? This isn't a solved problem, it's a new one. Modeling what happens at two levels at the same time. "Ship" and "Person/ Room" to decide what happens and what gets blown out, then pushing that to the 3rd level of "space."
IIRC they did a video a while ago which shown how they're dealing with this very issue. Should be some pages back in this thread.

"Ship" and "room" are interchangeable -- the "ship" is effectively bunch of rooms with some extra polygons that form the ship's outer skin. Stuff like cargo and crew is handled pretty much like flight simulators have been for years handling weapons, turrets and such attached to your aircraft; they exist as objects in "space" and move either along with their parent vessel or separately. It's not really a new thing.

The only real issue they had to solve was running into precision limits of 32-bit floating point numbers, which are normally used to hold coordinates of everything and run collision calculations and such, and force you to choose between good precision over relatively small area (your typical FPS/3PS level) or mediocre precision over large area (flight simulator)  They handle it through keeping track of object positions in two systems -- the usual 32-bit floats for high precision within small, local area where it matters, and 64-bit floats for rough(er) positioning in the giant-ass overall space. Pretty obvious approach and if there's anything that surprised me about it was they didn't start with implementing it, but only realized it'd be needed gods know how many months down the road.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on October 09, 2015, 01:27:45 PM
"Ship" and "room" are interchangeable -- the "ship" is effectively bunch of rooms with some extra polygons that form the ship's outer skin. Stuff like cargo and crew is handled pretty much like flight simulators have been for years handling weapons, turrets and such attached to your aircraft; they exist as objects in "space" and move either along with their parent vessel or separately. It's not really a new thing.

Ok, so what flight sim are you playing that's modeling the accountant's office in a 3-story skyscraper so that when I bomb him all of his papers go flying out the window and he lands on the sidewalk.

Because that's what we're talking about modeling and I want to see that game in action. It sounds awesome.

All of what you're describing were faked in sim games. Clever illusions. The missiles that fire are just polys that toggle off and on depending on what your status is. There's no physics of actually flying the missile from aircraft to aircraft. No rendering of bullets and modeling the impact. It's all rendering based on mathematical models, hit boxes and/ or probability tables.

Even in Multi-vehicle craft in FPS games you're just along for the ride. You're in viewer mode attached to a camera or a turret on a vehicle that's being piloted by one other person. Your travel is determined by that pilot person and reported back to where you're at and that's complex enough.

It's also not what Roberts is offering up. It's a series of nested rooms that gets crazy complex.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 09, 2015, 01:53:27 PM
That looks beautiful! Wouldn't it be great if one day someone made a videogame like that?!

right??


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on October 09, 2015, 02:08:41 PM
People who don't understand how video game engines work probably should not write about how video game engines work.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 09, 2015, 02:14:03 PM
Third (written) Q&A session about the Endeavour ship:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14994-MISC-Endeavor-Q-A-Part-3

I highlighted the last portion of the following excerpt because it made me chuckle:

Quote
he Hope-class Endeavor opens up an entirely new range of possibilities for the aspiring healer. As previously noted, Endeavors with an attached Medical Bay may serve as respawn points for players that have died, and the associated Hangar Bay allows those players to – for a price premium – have one of their existing ships or a new purchase delivered quickly so that they can get right back into the action. The greatest demand for Hope-class Endeavors will therefore be in those areas where lots of player deaths are occurring, but of course a valuable and unescorted medical ship in a dangerous area will be a tempting target for pirates and other less savory types. In addition to respawn services, an Endeavor that has enabled its ID Beacon – thus broadcasting to others its position, services offered, prices, and reputational information – can also serve as a field hospital for any player or NPC requiring urgent medical attention. In such cases, the party in need would attempt to quickly close the gap with the Endeavor and then either request access to dock in its landing bay or simply EVA into the external hospital pressure lock. Upon arrival in the hospital it’s up to the Endeavor’s crew to employ their expertise to try and save the patient, with the ultimate outcome contributing to their medical reputation.

YES, I definitely want XxxSheepMastahXxx and his nice medical team to employ their 'expertise' on me!!!  :drill:

Q&A goes on talking more in detail about the respawning mechanic (and possible exploits) and Gardening Commander


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on October 09, 2015, 02:27:23 PM
All of what you're describing were faked in sim games. Clever illusions. The missiles that fire are just polys that toggle off and on depending on what your status is. There's no physics of actually flying the missile from aircraft to aircraft. No rendering of bullets and modeling the impact. It's all rendering based on mathematical models, hit boxes and/ or probability tables.
What do you believe is the difference between "rendering based on mathematical models and hit boxes" and "physics of actually flying missile from aircraft to aircraft'? Because in my eyes the latter is simply implemented through the former, and they're effectively one and the same. For games like World of Warships throwing that handful of bullets/torpedoes onto their paths and doing movement/checkbox calculations to determine whether they hit stuff and what exactly parts of the virtual ships they hit, that's a practical way of doing what they're attempting to simulate, and perfectly within capabilities of today's PCs. And what Roberts is attempting isn't really any different from this imo, once we discard the obligatory intrawebs hyperbole.

Quote
Even in Multi-vehicle craft in FPS games you're just along for the ride. You're in viewer mode attached to a camera or a turret on a vehicle that's being piloted by one other person. Your travel is determined by that pilot person and reported back to where you're at and that's complex enough.

It's also not what Roberts is offering up. It's a series of nested rooms that gets crazy complex.
What Roberts is really offering up (other than Kool-Aid) is Archeage (which in turn is just refinement of earlier games) with one extra dimension.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYbFo7UNj58 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYbFo7UNj58)

Just having a model parented to another is nowhere near "complex enough" for games to handle. If you don't see more than that in a game, more often than not it's because it'd be just pointless, unnecessary complexity added to the design/gameplay (that yes, someone would need to implement/test/debug/etc)  At the same time advancing from "having character parented to a ship" to "having character move around while parented to a ship" isn't exactly rocket science, per se. You're merely changing over time the offset at which your model is attached to its parent, and doing collision detections with relevant geometry. It's additional computations, sure. But crazy complex? No, far from it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on October 09, 2015, 02:35:47 PM
YES, I definitely want XxxSheepMastahXxx and his nice medical team to employ their 'expertise' on me!!!  :drill:
At this point adding Operation to their selection of virtual spaceship mini-games appears perfectly logical and in line with the earlier plans :oh_i_see:

They should totally take it further, btw. Emergent gameplay: become undercover agent for your virtual corporation, infiltrate the crew of mobile hospital and then at the crucial moment poison drinks/swap the operation table server blades with broken ones, leading to operation failure and death of your competitor's CEO.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on October 09, 2015, 04:24:09 PM
Exclusive Gameplay Footage of the Medical Module (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2XkTIYhQC8)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MahrinSkel on October 09, 2015, 04:27:52 PM
I actually worked out an architecture for this problem once, essentially you have "contexts" (systems where the interactions occur according to the relevant rules, some of them explicitly spatial and physics-oriented), and "agents", which register their scope of interests (types of events they are interested in), and inform the contexts of the actions they are taking that will register within the mutual scope. So a 'ship management' agent would inform a 'space volume' context of what the ship was doing.

But the ship management agent would itself be simple reporting the results of a ship simulation context, which itself was responding to the actions of player proxy agents. And contexts could act as agents towards each other, to reconcile overlap (where one 3D physics context was overlapping with another, for example).

The point is that if you found that certain types of tasks were overloading your hardware, you subdivide your context either spacially or thematically. Your limiting factor becomes network bandwidth to communicate between contexts on different physical hardware, rather than cycles of CPU or memory space (but this is tractable with careful planning and throwing more NIC's on the hardware).

--Dave


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on October 10, 2015, 09:01:46 AM
CitizenCon presentation 2015 Saturday October 10th 7pm utc on twitch (http://www.twitch.tv/starcitizen).
I am tempted to watch to see the hype machine in (live)action.  :why_so_serious:



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 10, 2015, 09:07:40 AM
It will be fun no matter what, I guess  :grin:

128 cultists in chat right now. Join us  :drill:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on October 10, 2015, 10:41:38 AM
Allow me to summarise the chat at the stream, 1 hour 30 mins before go time.

SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART SERECK DMART
 IS EEEEVIL
I WENT TO DMARTS STREAM TO TROL HIM!!
I DOWNVOTED SD!
SD IS UGLY
HHOHA I LAUGH AT SD!!
I PROVE MY FAITH!
ROBERTS ACKBAR!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 10, 2015, 11:12:55 AM
Who is this elusive mon calamari Roberts Ackbar?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on October 10, 2015, 11:59:59 AM
In a true Star Citizen(tm) fashion the stream start is now delayed at least 30mins according to their website.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on October 10, 2015, 12:02:03 PM
Incoming web page selling the SS Delay for $600 each.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 10, 2015, 12:08:37 PM
Starting in 20 minutes....Maybe.

16,600...err, viewers and counting  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on October 10, 2015, 12:28:09 PM
There's a magical countdown clock to keep people entertained: it was at 42:42 and started counting, then reseted to 50:00 and started counting after a while, then reseted to 29:46 and stayed there for a while before starting to count, then reseted to 50 and currently it's counting down at 12:26 though no idea if it will get to 0 or will it reset to some magical number.  :why_so_serious:

edit:before I managed to hit post it flashed to 50:00 and then to 7:20 and is now counting down at 6:50



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 10, 2015, 12:31:31 PM
Started. "Sandra Roberts" on stage  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 10, 2015, 12:33:21 PM
Is she reading an obituary?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on October 10, 2015, 12:34:23 PM
Started. "Sandra Roberts" on stage  :why_so_serious:

From the start Sandra's speech is more like a cult leader's than for a game.  :ye_gods:

edit: like how fans have been telling her how she has made their lives better etc
edit2: she even got flowers from the fans because....fans?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 10, 2015, 12:36:14 PM
Oh jesus this is creepy.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on October 10, 2015, 12:37:48 PM
They are giving her fucking flowers on stage. The way it is being filmed is ridiculous and strange.

Edit: You know, now I remember what I have seen before that is like this shit before, Scientology gatherings.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 10, 2015, 12:52:41 PM
edit: misheard so never mind :P


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 10, 2015, 12:55:47 PM
Playground for SC Alpha 2.0 sounds interesting...setting aside the "WHEN" portion :D

EDIT: ah, here comes the live demonstration.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 10, 2015, 01:15:22 PM
eh

this don't look too bad


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 10, 2015, 01:17:24 PM
Yeah, it looks like early Elite Dangerous.

But all that fps shit is such a huge mistake.

edit: also the chat people are continuing to obsess over Serek.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 10, 2015, 01:20:43 PM
The Starmap!!!

EDIT: Live here:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/starmap


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on October 10, 2015, 01:29:59 PM
It was funny to see some of the players get ganked in the fps portion and getting their ship stolen. Can you imagine the amount of hurt and whine it would cause if they actually left that in game when the persistent universe actually launches?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 10, 2015, 01:31:20 PM
Eh, the map is just smoke and mirrors because it will never exist ingame. Waste of resources.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 10, 2015, 01:33:21 PM
Eh, the map is just smoke and mirrors because it will never exist ingame. Waste of resources.



Shut up you or I...OOOH, LOOK, A SHINY BRANDED JOYSTICK!!! 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 10, 2015, 01:37:08 PM
That joystick is pretty great if you're into peripherals. Also it will likely actually exist, so that's a plus.

edit: HAHAHAHAHA pyramid scheme! Only with fake money for the marks.

edit: there's your burn rate, motion captured expensive actors.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 10, 2015, 01:43:19 PM
That joystick is pretty great if you're into peripherals. Also it will likely actually exist, so that's a plus.

edit: HAHAHAHAHA pyramid scheme! Only with fake money for the marks.

Let me recruit you, I need to test dat system!!!  :cthulu:

Looks like Smart was wrong about the new ship? Sabre instead of Vindicator (it would be hilarious if a suspected "leaker" inside the office was fed that wrong info)
----------
Squadron 42!!!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 10, 2015, 01:49:32 PM
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/squadron42


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Shannow on October 10, 2015, 02:08:15 PM
Wait is that an actual game that will be released? Or are they just trying to snag pre-order dollars to prop up the sinking ship?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 10, 2015, 02:11:08 PM
Well, how many AAA games have only a cgi video to show a year before release?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 10, 2015, 02:25:33 PM
lots of glitches and still very early, but that was a nice intro sequence, reminded me of the good old WC days :)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 10, 2015, 02:27:29 PM
5 minutes of early exposition at super rough level of quality. This is not coming out in 2016.

edit: WE NOW SING THE PRAISES


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 10, 2015, 02:36:17 PM
5 minutes of early exposition at super rough level of quality. This is not coming out in 2016.

edit: WE NOW SING THE PRAISES

Yeah, a normal publisher would wait for a much more polished demo, no doubt about it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on October 10, 2015, 02:43:45 PM
5 minutes of early exposition at super rough level of quality. This is not coming out in 2016.

edit: WE NOW SING THE PRAISES

Yeah, a normal publisher would wait for a much more polished demo, no doubt about it.

It's not even about waiting to show a more polished demo, it's that it feels disingenuous for them to even put out that vague "2016" release date. Based on what they showed, I doubt even Roberts believes they can actually get this thing out next year.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on October 10, 2015, 02:46:23 PM
Holy fuck. I can see where the money went.

Why? WHY? I watched that cinematic for Squadron 42. First impression - why does Gary Oldman's mouth look like it's open to open up like a fucking pez dispenser, feeding the universe into a voidspace filled with Elder Gods? Then I looked at the cast list and realised that they mocapped every fucking one of those actors. Which means on top of the very expensive mocap studios they built for that purpose, they also spent probably millions on a cast when they could have scoured the restaurants of LA and got twice the cast for a fraction of the cost. It's fucking 38 Studios all over again, spending millions on name talent when less well-known talent would just do as well. It's fine if it's other people's money (read: publisher or studio) but when it's customer-based, crowdfunded money, you need to be a fuckton more frugal with the money to make sure you can finish the goddamn game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on October 10, 2015, 02:54:56 PM
Even Oldman couldn't do anything with the generic inspirational speech he had to read (set to an equally generic score). There wasn't a drop of emotion in that whole cinematic.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 10, 2015, 03:15:26 PM
Note how gameplay development is focused on the persistent universe, while the rest of the money is being spent on actors. They're setting themselves up to failure by spreading resources so thin, making continual funding growth a necessity to finishing either module.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 10, 2015, 03:26:08 PM
better version of the intro speech (1080p 60fps):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EC4WHPxnrk

Alpha 2.0 press demo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrpeLpQWzTk


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 10, 2015, 03:58:02 PM
More details on how the money has been spent. Forcing Gary Oldman to sit through this interview. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTuhr_vzTEE&feature=em-uploademail)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 10, 2015, 04:28:42 PM
The usual Monthly Report (September 2015) has been published on the website but the intro is a little different, this time:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14995-Monthly-Studio-Report

Quote
SUBJECT: ORGANIZATIONAL AND STUDIO CHANGES

Recently, we’ve heard from backers who are worried over rumors that individual CIG studios are closing. This is not the case! In fact, Cloud Imperium Games is continuing to expand as we continue to find talented employees; we had twelve new developers start in September, alone! The root of this confusion seems to be the fact that the reorganization that began when Erin Roberts took over as head of global production is changing the specific requirements of each studio. In the spirit of open development, we are sharing the exact e-mail Chris Roberts sent to the team on the subject of restructuring two weeks ago.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on October 10, 2015, 04:35:06 PM
What Roberts is really offering up (other than Kool-Aid) is Archeage (which in turn is just refinement of earlier games) with one extra dimension.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYbFo7UNj58 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYbFo7UNj58)

Just having a model parented to another is nowhere near "complex enough" for games to handle. If you don't see more than that in a game, more often than not it's because it'd be just pointless, unnecessary complexity added to the design/gameplay (that yes, someone would need to implement/test/debug/etc)  At the same time advancing from "having character parented to a ship" to "having character move around while parented to a ship" isn't exactly rocket science, per se. You're merely changing over time the offset at which your model is attached to its parent, and doing collision detections with relevant geometry. It's additional computations, sure. But crazy complex? No, far from it.


Sooo. it's all viable and you guys are just giving Roberts a hard time because he's making too much money off stupid people then. Got it.   :awesome_for_real: :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on October 10, 2015, 04:44:37 PM
Squadron 42!!!
2016...Maybe!!!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on October 10, 2015, 05:13:38 PM
The usual Monthly Report (September 2015) has been published on the website but the intro is a little different, this time:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14995-Monthly-Studio-Report

Quote
SUBJECT: ORGANIZATIONAL AND STUDIO CHANGES

Recently, we’ve heard from backers who are worried over rumors that individual CIG studios are closing. This is not the case! In fact, Cloud Imperium Games is continuing to expand as we continue to find talented employees; we had twelve new developers start in September, alone! The root of this confusion seems to be the fact that the reorganization that began when Erin Roberts took over as head of global production is changing the specific requirements of each studio. In the spirit of open development, we are sharing the exact e-mail Chris Roberts sent to the team on the subject of restructuring two weeks ago.

Pyramid scheme mentality. Don't stop giving us money, things are still great! Your 'investments' are not at risk!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on October 10, 2015, 05:22:08 PM
Sooo. it's all viable and you guys are just giving Roberts a hard time because he's making too much money off stupid people then. Got it.   :awesome_for_real: :why_so_serious:
It's viable for a competent team :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on October 10, 2015, 05:41:03 PM
Sooo. it's all viable and you guys are just giving Roberts a hard time because he's making too much money off stupid people then. Got it.   :awesome_for_real: :why_so_serious:
It's viable for a competent team :oh_i_see:

Yeah, I think TECHNICALLY nothing proposed is impossible.  It's just that mashing it all into a coherent game does not seem feasible, and nothing they describe sounds like it's in the realm of coherence.  Implementing the "core game" (I'm not even clear what exactly that would be) would be adequately challenging, but then you keep seeing these bizarre tangents about passenger liners with drink service or whatever.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Furiously on October 10, 2015, 06:10:38 PM
CitizenCon stream
http://www.twitch.tv/starcitizen/v/20068257 (http://www.twitch.tv/starcitizen/v/20068257)

or DS's stream...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKWKtylnFRI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKWKtylnFRI)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on October 10, 2015, 06:48:03 PM
Well I hope people get their money's worth. I don't think the project will fail to deliver something playable. The quality of the features is another matter.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Surlyboi on October 10, 2015, 07:45:44 PM
As much as watching this shitshow on fire amuses me, He Who Shall Not be Named is still a fucking douchebag.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on October 10, 2015, 08:14:52 PM
I've watched a bit of gameplay demonstration they have, and now I kinda wish this thing actually launched at some point... purely because the griefing potential and zero fucks given about even trying to mitigate it seem off the scale. Same for realizing how different it'd function with even minuscule amount of players, vs their current state of having just few dudes follow prepared demonstration script, with no other people to get in their way.

Have to wonder how many "our group of 4 took our $900 virtual spaceship to pvp station, got our heads blown off by 20 dudes camping the entrance 10 seconds in, and the ship stolen" sob stories would appear on the game forums on the first day, and how long it'd take for design changes to get invented and implemented.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on October 10, 2015, 09:40:54 PM
Have to wonder how many "our group of 4 took our $900 virtual spaceship to pvp station, got our heads blown off by 20 dudes camping the entrance 10 seconds in, and the ship stolen" sob stories would appear on the game forums on the first day, and how long it'd take for design changes to get invented and implemented.

God, the QQ'ing would be GLORIOUS. Not to mention the sheer scale of profit CIG could make off selling microtransactions of ship insurance scaled to the cost of the ship.

"Don't lose your investment! Just $10/month for insurance on your $900 ship!"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Furiously on October 10, 2015, 11:52:39 PM
The refer a friend/mid level marketing business in the middle of the video tells me it's never coming out. 

If I was a backer I want certainly want to know how much money they spent on all those actors... Ninety million goes fast when you have a staff of 250 people and are making a motion captured movie at the same time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sparky on October 11, 2015, 12:28:23 AM
I watched the stream for some reason.  They showed about 5 minutes of gameplay, 15 minutes of walking around a station.  Then hours of crap about mocap studios or Chris apologizing for the quality of his cutscenes.  People who said frustrated filmmaker were spot on.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: apocrypha on October 11, 2015, 12:33:22 AM
I thought the backers all got lifetime insurance anyway? Fairly certain they've made it very clear that this isn't going to be EVE-like in it's ship loss mechanisms.

Don't confuse that for some kind of support or backing, I'm expecting this to 'end' with Roberts either in jail or a fugitive trying to raise money from marks to fight extradition.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on October 11, 2015, 03:15:57 AM
More details on how the money has been spent. Forcing Gary Oldman to sit through this interview. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTuhr_vzTEE&feature=em-uploademail)

On the plus side, John Rhys-Davies hasn't been part of a cast this good since In the Name of the King: A Dungeon Siege Tale, and this time he's got one of the executive producers on Who's Your Caddy? running the show.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 11, 2015, 04:24:21 AM
By the by, where was Star Marine in that livestream? Has it been quietly canned?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Maledict on October 11, 2015, 04:44:40 AM
The video reminds me so strongly of Wing comander 3 versus TIE Fighter. I got them both at the same time one christmas, and WC3 was just utter garbage compared to TIE Fighter. Yes, it had amazing video and prettier graphics and shinier things, whilst TIE fighter was running with barely animated hand drawn cutscenes. But it was an infinitely better game in every respect, whilst WC3 left me wondering what all the fuss was about.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tannhauser on October 11, 2015, 04:55:17 AM
Have to wonder how many "our group of 4 took our $900 virtual spaceship to pvp station, got our heads blown off by 20 dudes camping the entrance 10 seconds in, and the ship stolen" sob stories would appear on the game forums on the first day, and how long it'd take for design changes to get invented and implemented.

God, the QQ'ing would be GLORIOUS. Not to mention the sheer scale of profit CIG could make off selling microtransactions of ship insurance scaled to the cost of the ship.

"Don't lose your investment! Just $10/month for insurance on your $900 ship!"

You are fucking killing it in this thread! 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on October 11, 2015, 07:24:41 AM
Saw this in Elite Dangerous:  there was QQ on the forums about PVP losses, and actually the game fans turned against the complainers and told them to STFU, and the devs took that as proof that their vision was correct, and made no changes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sparky on October 11, 2015, 07:44:19 AM
By the by, where was Star Marine in that livestream? Has it been quietly canned?

Explicitly canned I thought.  They're rolling it into the baby PU which will be "soon".  Saves them the bother of delivering anything for a while.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on October 11, 2015, 07:49:11 AM
You can buy it all for the low low price of $15,000 (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Combos/The-Completionist-Digital)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on October 11, 2015, 08:33:59 AM
I thought the backers all got lifetime insurance anyway? Fairly certain they've made it very clear that this isn't going to be EVE-like in it's ship loss mechanisms.
I think yeah, they have some sort of insurance (or you can supposedly buy one "relatively cheap") but I have no idea how they're planning to mesh it with this ship stealing business, as that'd effectively mean some way of printing money. Imagine you could "steal" EVE titan from the dude who owns one, and then the dude just gets new copy of the ship automagically because he had "insurance", while the thief still keeps theirs... i'd estimate less than a week needed to see all-titan alliances because ways to exploit that are pretty frickin' obvious. At least in EVE you have the skill requirements that limit what you can fly, but in this game, I don't think so?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on October 11, 2015, 09:33:35 AM
(http://i3.dealtwith.it/i/n/68358ab0e51281c9e2d85e2a476fc972/BxyCs7d.png)

KEEP GOING. THE SPICE MUST FLOW!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on October 11, 2015, 09:36:36 AM
From reading the storefront details, it looks as though the insurance is only offered to early adopters as a specific benefit of buying-in early. Anyone who buys a ship later doesn't appear to get that or gets a limited insurance period - for example this $275 ship (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/ships/rsi-constellation/Constellation-Andromeda) only comes with 6 months of insurance.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 11, 2015, 09:47:22 AM
Insurance FAQ:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/faq/Insurance-FAQ


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on October 11, 2015, 10:40:52 AM
I watched the stream for some reason.  They showed about 5 minutes of gameplay, 15 minutes of walking around a station.  Then hours of crap about mocap studios or Chris apologizing for the quality of his cutscenes.  People who said frustrated filmmaker were spot on.

This. That stream was all cool like until you start to realize how many times that "seat twisting up out of the floor" animation will run when you are trying to play the game. If they are seriously talking about doing that shit as what are essentially unskippable cutscenes, that's going to get annoying REALLY FAST. There's a reason RPG's and MMOG's have certain things "just happen" - because no one wants to sit around for 20 seconds while they wait for their seat to spin up or down. And there is multiple types of those animations for every mundane thing - climbing in your cockpit, selecting your ship and then trying to figure out where the goddamn landing pad they told you is on this huge ass station, walking from the ship select to the landing pad. A persistent universe is a great idea until you start to realize just how many boring things you really wish you could shortcut so that you can actually get to the fucking fun.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on October 11, 2015, 11:20:16 AM
Alpha 2.0 press demo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrpeLpQWzTk

Is it me or is the camera movement broken? It's super juddery.

What's even happening at the 40 second mark? The camera just randomly jumps like 3 times for no reason.

Edit: How the fuck can you be three years into production and have a broken camera? Lol.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on October 11, 2015, 11:30:15 AM
That shit literally looks like it was the best they could cobble together in a desperate attempt to show that they had something working.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 11, 2015, 11:32:26 AM
Also it's bound to be running on a super high end machine, regularly dropping to 10fps.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 11, 2015, 11:35:36 AM
That shit literally looks like it was the best they could cobble together in a desperate attempt to show that they had something working.

All true. The depressing part is that this smokes and mirrors bullshit I bet will net them another $20M, and about six more months of Roberts playing Hollywood.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on October 11, 2015, 11:53:28 AM
Insurance FAQ:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/faq/Insurance-FAQ
Quote
Can I trade my lifetime insurance ship?

Yes. The lifetime insurance will follow the ship hull when it is legally sold or gifted. If the ship is stolen or otherwise captured, the policy will not transfer.
Perhaps i'm reading this wrong, but it seems to say that if you fly your $900 ship to pvp zone, get your heads blown off and the ship stolen, the lifetime insurance turns null and void... so if the thief then gets the ship destroyed or whatever, that's pretty much it for the original buyer? :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on October 11, 2015, 11:54:14 AM
So whatever.  They showed a lot of interesting, if not extreeemely rough, work.  Yay for them.

However, isn't Squadron 42 the single player campaign that they claim will have 30 missions in it, with both space and FPS aspects to it.  And yet all they showed off was the tutorial and one cinematic with not so great writing.  

I'd be extremely surprised if they actually have even one mission complete but went "fuck it we are too good to show this awesomeness off", that would be extremely dumb.  Which means they have one year to create all 30 missions.  Good luck to that....


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on October 11, 2015, 12:08:30 PM
Hell at this point it's gone full circle where I can now cheer for this game to succeed and still get my schadenfreude too when everyone that has gone full tilt is wrong.

I'm up for any combo at this point but I like this angle.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: apocrypha on October 11, 2015, 12:32:13 PM
This. That stream was all cool like until you start to realize how many times that "seat twisting up out of the floor" animation will run when you are trying to play the game. If they are seriously talking about doing that shit as what are essentially unskippable cutscenes, that's going to get annoying REALLY FAST. There's a reason RPG's and MMOG's have certain things "just happen" - because no one wants to sit around for 20 seconds while they wait for their seat to spin up or down. And there is multiple types of those animations for every mundane thing - climbing in your cockpit, selecting your ship and then trying to figure out where the goddamn landing pad they told you is on this huge ass station, walking from the ship select to the landing pad. A persistent universe is a great idea until you start to realize just how many boring things you really wish you could shortcut so that you can actually get to the fucking fun.

This is kind of what they've done in Elite:Dangerous. There's unskippable, tediously slow launching & docking procedures to go through every single time you take off and land. First few times, yeah, immersive and fun. 1000th time? Not so much.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on October 11, 2015, 12:36:00 PM
. A persistent universe is a great idea until you start to realize just how many boring things you really wish you could shortcut so that you can actually get to the fucking fun.

I can't wait to forget where I parked and spend 2 hours walking around the parking garbage. REALISM AT ANY COST.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 11, 2015, 12:43:10 PM
This. That stream was all cool like until you start to realize how many times that "seat twisting up out of the floor" animation will run when you are trying to play the game. If they are seriously talking about doing that shit as what are essentially unskippable cutscenes, that's going to get annoying REALLY FAST. There's a reason RPG's and MMOG's have certain things "just happen" - because no one wants to sit around for 20 seconds while they wait for their seat to spin up or down. And there is multiple types of those animations for every mundane thing - climbing in your cockpit, selecting your ship and then trying to figure out where the goddamn landing pad they told you is on this huge ass station, walking from the ship select to the landing pad. A persistent universe is a great idea until you start to realize just how many boring things you really wish you could shortcut so that you can actually get to the fucking fun.

This is kind of what they've done in Elite:Dangerous. There's unskippable, tediously slow launching & docking procedures to go through every single time you take off and land. First few times, yeah, immersive and fun. 1000th time? Not so much.


Landing in Elite? I totally disagree with that. The landing is done absolutely right in Elite Dangerous and since it's an active operation I can't complain. It just feels right. It's the animation of your ship being pulled undergound into the base, or the even more irritating animation of that same elevator rotating your ship around before you take off that is annoying. It's when games take control out of your hands for their own artificial reasons that it gets annoying, but landing in Elite is really a non-issue.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Kail on October 11, 2015, 12:49:35 PM
Quote
Can I trade my lifetime insurance ship?

Yes. The lifetime insurance will follow the ship hull when it is legally sold or gifted. If the ship is stolen or otherwise captured, the policy will not transfer.
Perhaps i'm reading this wrong, but it seems to say that if you fly your $900 ship to pvp zone, get your heads blown off and the ship stolen, the lifetime insurance turns null and void... so if the thief then gets the ship destroyed or whatever, that's pretty much it for the original buyer? :awesome_for_real:

I suspect it means that the attacker doesn't get the infinite insurance along with the ship.  Like, if you head out and someone else steals your $900 ship, you still have the insurance for it, your attacker hasn't just stolen an infinite supply of $900 ships.  I assume that's what it means, anyways.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on October 11, 2015, 01:29:28 PM
You can also buy a docking computer for your ship in Elite.  Put me into the "landing in Elite is totally different" camp.  I understand why some people don't like doing it all the time, but it strikes me as very different than these unskippable animations that look great in a trailer but are just plain annoying during actual gameplay. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on October 11, 2015, 01:46:11 PM
If landing in Elite is an active thing, as in it requires input from the player, it's not the same thing. It may still get annoying after the 100th time you've done it, but at least you are doing something. Clicking "USE" on a chair then spending 20 seconds watching the goddamn chair spin up and your virtual ass get in it is the definition of time-wasting.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on October 11, 2015, 01:57:30 PM
If landing in Elite is an active thing, as in it requires input from the player, it's not the same thing. It may still get annoying after the 100th time you've done it, but at least you are doing something. Clicking "USE" on a chair then spending 20 seconds watching the goddamn chair spin up and your virtual ass get in it is the definition of time-wasting.

Yeah, in Elite the procedure is come out of warp near the station, request docking at the station, after docking is approved (usually immediately), you pilot your ship to the assigned docking pad, put your landing gear down, align properly to the pad, then put her down.  You can, if you choose, install a docking computer in your ship that will automate the process for you.

The only thing somewhat like this in Elite is that after you dock there if you choose "enter station" instead of just staying on the pad, which you need to do to access certain services at the station, then you have to sit through about 3-5 seconds of the platform being lowered into the station and spinning around.  Falconeer mentioned this already.  It's a tiny bit annoying, but is quick, at least.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on October 12, 2015, 02:10:29 AM
Eve online introduced a new map about 6 months ago. When you open the map you get a nice zooming effect and then the map has iertia slow when it tets to you. Then you resise the map and you have inertia slow which means it was impossible to just zoom it and look. Then you close and open it and the same thing happens. Since I was doing scouting and exploration which involved me opening and closing the map a lot, this drove me freaking crazy and I largely stopped playing eve.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on October 12, 2015, 05:15:52 AM
Also it's bound to be running on a super high end machine, regularly dropping to 10fps.

The rumored specs are definitely high. The devs mentioned you need a GTX 680 radeon 7970 for the minimum specs. To put that into perspective only 13% of steam users have gpus at are above that minimum. The cpu requirements are better but still problematic enough. You need a Phenom x4 or i5-2500 series cpu. 43% of steam users meet the minimum cpu requirements.

This requires  bleedware and honestly I love it. It's nice to have a potential successor to Crysis.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 12, 2015, 05:32:56 AM
As long as it's because the game does something that justifies the power requirement. As it is, I suspect it's just lack of optimization. Which is not an excuse.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on October 12, 2015, 06:18:11 AM
Also it's bound to be running on a super high end machine, regularly dropping to 10fps.

The rumored specs are definitely high. The devs mentioned you need a GTX 680 radeon 7970 for the minimum specs. To put that into perspective only 13% of steam users have gpus at are above that minimum. The cpu requirements are better but still problematic enough. You need a Phenom x4 or i5-2500 series cpu. 43% of steam users meet the minimum cpu requirements.

This requires  bleedware and honestly I love it. It's nice to have a potential successor to Crysis.

LOL


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on October 12, 2015, 06:42:29 AM
That has to be green.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on October 12, 2015, 06:52:49 AM
Well, he is called Patience...    :uhrr:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on October 12, 2015, 07:48:01 AM
Well, he is called Patience...    :uhrr:

The streets don't change 'cept maybe the names
He ain't got time for these games...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on October 12, 2015, 01:20:31 PM
You know,

I was watching someone stream Arena Commander (or w/e it's called) and I thought to myself how much of a shame it is that CR's head got so big, because they actually could have had a really fun game out already if they just used that as a base and built on top of it iteratively instead of trying to do everything at once. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 12, 2015, 07:41:00 PM
ere ya go

(http://i.imgur.com/mhbfXsf.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on October 13, 2015, 04:38:51 AM
So I got bored while I was out of town and went to browse the QT3 forums to look at some other opinions of the Citizen con stuff.

DS popped in and posted that he has a new blog post (http://www.dereksmart.org/2015/10/star-citizen-the-endgame/#comment-2854) and also posted this oddness:

Quote
Before the next breaking news that's going in a new blog ("Star Citizen - The Great Gaming Heist") , I want to give you guys some stuff to chew on.

1) Search for these terms: "gizmondo Carl Freer upsala mafia"

2) Make the connection (do a "where are the now?" research) between these four: Simon Elms, Nick Elms, Erin Roberts, Chris Roberts and "gizmondo" (hint: Warthog)

More soon.

ps: It's a doozy



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 13, 2015, 05:21:05 AM
I love a good conspiration plot, but I don't want to do what he says and I am sure it would take more than he seems to imply it would. So, assuming someone else did the googling, what's his point?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MahrinSkel on October 13, 2015, 05:29:19 AM
I have no idea. Gizmondo was a clusterfuck of the first order from the height of the 'Rock Star' era of videogames, and there's personnel overlap between Warthog (which became part of Gizmondo right before it fell apart) and SC. Which, given the incestuous mutual aid society that characterizes this industry, is not much of a shock.

--Dave


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on October 13, 2015, 06:24:39 AM
Yeah, 'people who used to work together are now working together somewhere else' is not any kind of slam dunk in this industry. I'm guessing that it doesn't happen that often to Dmart because anyone who works with him once, never wants to do so again.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on October 13, 2015, 07:25:44 AM
It's not a slam dunk in any industry.  Monkeysphere be small, yo.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 13, 2015, 03:32:40 PM
illominaty confirmed1


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 13, 2015, 03:37:53 PM
I wonder if Roberts will grab the bait again and post a dmartian rant in response, or maybe someone has told him to stfu.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on October 13, 2015, 04:42:01 PM
Roberts didn't really rant. Be kind of just whined for a while.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 15, 2015, 02:56:03 PM
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/10/star-citizen-hits-1-million-backers-entire-game-unlocked-for-all/

everyone gets everything

grats

nothing has value

peasants


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on October 15, 2015, 03:18:15 PM
If he who shall not be named is to believed, RSI has hired private investigators to look into company leaks to him (https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/654302129679659008).

They also supposedly data mining something awful accounts so Sandi Gardinar can confront them (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3744337&pagenumber=463&perpage=40#post451428554).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: slog on October 15, 2015, 05:26:22 PM
The goons have some great gifs.

(http://i.imgur.com/ApvUkxQ.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on October 15, 2015, 11:24:30 PM
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/10/star-citizen-hits-1-million-backers-entire-game-unlocked-for-all/

everyone gets everything

grats

nothing has value

peasants

So it's $92.7 million from a 1 million backers making it an average of over $90 for each backer...  :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rasix on October 15, 2015, 11:28:59 PM
He harpooned a lot of whales.  Kickstarter equivalent of Farmville.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 16, 2015, 01:58:19 AM
The goons have some great gifs.


Why does a space sim have exploding golf carts? Incoherent games design ftw.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: slog on October 16, 2015, 03:26:43 AM
The goons have some great gifs.


Why does a space sim have exploding golf carts? Incoherent games design ftw.


Because they cost $4 to replace.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: slog on October 16, 2015, 10:33:58 AM
More goon gifs

(http://i.imgur.com/yAdkv1l.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/XBve18a.gif)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KYHwztocgw



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 16, 2015, 09:51:30 PM
The goons have some great gifs.


Why does a space sim have exploding golf carts? Incoherent games design ftw.


no! no. this is where i draw the line. star citizen is fundamentally ridiculous, but we must celebrate the inexplicable presence of exploding golf carts within it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on October 17, 2015, 10:48:17 AM
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/10/star-citizen-hits-1-million-backers-entire-game-unlocked-for-all/

everyone gets everything

grats

nothing has value

peasants

So it's $92.7 million from a 1 million backers making it an average of over $90 for each backer...  :ye_gods:

You cringe at that but that honestly wouldn't be bad if everyone paid nearly that much. When you factor in the frequent abuse of DLC for the biggest games they easily cost you $100 on average and it sort of tracks with the price of games when they were $60 since 2000 after inflation adjustment.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on October 17, 2015, 11:14:10 AM
If there was actual content and actual DLC or expansions and you know, an actual game, you might have a point.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Kail on October 17, 2015, 02:41:00 PM
You cringe at that but that honestly wouldn't be bad if everyone paid nearly that much. When you factor in the frequent abuse of DLC for the biggest games they easily cost you $100 on average and it sort of tracks with the price of games when they were $60 since 2000 after inflation adjustment.

If you're trying to defend their practices, comparing them to the most overpriced and exploitative games in the industry and saying "see, it's only slightly worse than that" isn't exactly inspiring a lot of confidence.

On another note, can someone give me the "Cliffs Notes for Idiots" version on what exactly they're selling now?  Over time I've heard that this project is actually funding a bunch of smaller games which might interact in some ways or something like that with different pledge levels and special offers and packages offering different rewards and it's all been very complicated to me.  If they're just saying "here, buy the future game for $30 and get everything" then it might be something I'd throw money at.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on October 17, 2015, 05:19:58 PM
Some people here have never seen the MST3K version of "Space Mutiny", I guess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZqlnaH6cUU


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on October 18, 2015, 04:32:31 AM
(http://puu.sh/kOkI6/08fae9e94f.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: slog on October 18, 2015, 07:29:08 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/WNZ4QNU.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on October 18, 2015, 09:59:55 AM
A hat is not a replacement for a hairstyle and a beard is not a replacement for a chin.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on October 18, 2015, 10:09:06 AM
What the feck? Is all the head and neck gear to protect them from the onrush of reality that reacts to every lie they are speaking?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on October 18, 2015, 02:00:27 PM
(http://puu.sh/kOkI6/08fae9e94f.jpg)

Original reddit post made by "BettysBigTits" :awesome_for_real:.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3ozzxs/my_son_asked_for_star_citizen_for_christmas_where/


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 18, 2015, 02:11:33 PM
Oh reddit, fucks up boston marathon bombing thing and can't spot a troll.

I miss the Digg separation of users.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Shrike on October 18, 2015, 02:47:11 PM
A hat is not a replacement for a hairstyle and a beard is not a replacement for a chin.

After spending more years than I care to think about in manufacturing dealing with assorted skilled trades, I have to say that yes they most certainly are.

You have to work with what you have, so hats (balding), beards (no chin or hairlip), and suspenders (what do you think?) are pretty much de rigueur.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Goreschach on October 18, 2015, 03:51:14 PM

You have to work with what you have, so hats (balding), beards (no chin or hairlip), and suspenders (what do you think?)

I think you need to put the fedora down.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 18, 2015, 06:20:32 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/DZbviqX.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on October 19, 2015, 02:25:14 AM
I had the misfortune to listen to a German podcast over the weekend run by German games industry veterans. All people with 20 or more years of experience in the business - for both national and international magazine publishers, games publishers and developers. They recently had the former CEO of Factor 5 on to tell them about the development history of the Rogue Squadron series for example. They had a guy on that was a developer/studio lead turned industry consultant. That guy is basically one of the people you get on board if you want to run a massive multiplayer game. Amongst his credits are lots and lots of free to play games but also stuff like Assassins Creed: Black Flag. By his own admission the largest game he ever worked on with more than 1000 people at some point working on it. 480 million dollars it cost to make that game (marketing budget included) according to him.

They talked about Star Citizen because the whole Serek Dmart thing made it over here too and the guys jumped at the chance to ask an actual insider about his opinion. The consultant was very polite (he wants to keep working in the industry after all) yet managed to state in very polite terms that what Chris Roberts has planned for Star Citizen is utterly impossible. Since Chris Roberts basically has the staff of an AAA studio, he compared it to other AAA titles that focus just on one aspect of Star Citizen costing more than 100 million to make. His verdict was that it is very unlikely to finish even just one of Star Citizen's modules on a 90 million budget if you have the staff and burn rate of a AAA dev.

He also confirmed that the burn rate is accurate - giving a $10,000 per person estimate as a ballpark number for estimating costs for development in the US. He went on to say that the way the organization of RSI/CIG is structured is very problematic because it eschews the hierarchies necessary to effectively run a 300+ people studio. You know things he's experinced with. He also had lots of anecdotes about everyone who has ever worked with Roberst basically thinking of him as a major cunt. He beasically said that he could imagine most of the things that recently came out being true going from his experience and what he's heard.

The shocking part was that the (ex-)journalists and industry veterans weren't having any of it.

One of the guys flat out asked: "But what if you are wrong and he can make the game he promised on a much smaller budget?" and "Even if not what's the downside? I never funded the game and so I don't lose anything if he fails. Also the backers at most lose $60 and that's basically no money at all".

They argued with an expert - an expert they invited to give them an inside scoop on the process of how to make AAA and free to play games - simply because he told them that what Chris Roberts claims to be making is a pipe dream and unrealistic on the budget he supposedly has to work with. Simply because "I'd like to see another Privateer" was more important to them than reality. They even mentioned Digital Anvil - a studio that managed to put out two half finished games in a period of ten years - and Starlancer/Freelancer as projects Chris Roberts spent millions on and never finished because of feature creep and mismanagement and somehow still came to the conclusion that "this time it's different".

This game will tank and take the whole crowdfunding idea with it while the whole industry stands by and waits for the second coming of Chris.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on October 19, 2015, 02:51:59 AM
This game will tank and take the whole crowdfunding idea with it while the whole industry stands by and waits for the second coming of Chris.

I think crowdfunding for games won't die due to this since there have been actual successes like Wasteland 2 and Divinity: Original Sin. If Star Citizen fails it will probably lead to saner kickstarters especially on the part of feature creep and make people more aware of missed deadlines (like Star Citizen's nov 2014 for the release during the kickstarter so about a year late at this moment).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tebonas on October 19, 2015, 03:08:09 AM
Sounds like the Spieleveteranen collectively got a stroke. I guess I have to listen to that episode soon  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on October 19, 2015, 03:24:54 AM
Mostly Jörg, but for a group of people where each member has at least twenty years experience, not only in reporting but also in some game dev or publishing capacity it was rather disappointing.

btw the guy they had on was that guy: https://de.linkedin.com/in/teut986



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on October 19, 2015, 06:06:55 AM
Star Citizen's failure or success won't do anything to kickstarter. SC's campaign will be 3 years old before anything comes to fruition and people won't give a shit.

Even if it failed 6 months after KS, no one would give a shit anyway. A bunch of shitty game journalists would tsk tsk away. Schild would write a few sarcastic posts. Some idiot blogger for Forbes would of written something 2 months too late. And a new Kickstarter would pop up for a new set of miniatures or CCG and people will still drop cash on cool stuff.

Then someone would necro the thread 2 years later because DS posted something on Something Awful about his new soon to be failgame and how it will be what Star Citizen should of been.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 19, 2015, 06:09:36 AM

Forget teutonic podcasting, this gif is where it's at. How does that even happen?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on October 19, 2015, 06:11:33 AM
I'm assuming he somehow jumped out of ship and went commando. They have the whole boarding thing in this game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 19, 2015, 06:43:04 AM
But his arms. They should not be.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on October 19, 2015, 06:49:32 AM
Maybe he jumped into a black hole.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on October 19, 2015, 06:51:16 AM
It may be time to liquidate our guests.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on October 19, 2015, 06:53:32 AM
Forget teutonic podcasting, this gif is where it's at. How does that even happen?

My guess is it's due to their insistence that first person view exactly mimics third person view/what other people see combined with not handling what happens when the user is facing straight up properly.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on October 19, 2015, 09:46:04 AM
It may be time to liquidate our guests.


I am old and understood that reference. Darkest Disney movie ever.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 19, 2015, 10:32:29 AM
No Disney movie requires you being old. And hell, it's only 1979. Comeon.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MahrinSkel on October 19, 2015, 10:40:06 AM
No Disney movie requires you being old. And hell, it's only 1979. Comeon.
1979 is closer to the end of WW2 (34 years)  than it is to today (36). Yeah, if you saw it when it was new (I did), you're old. My mom was pissed, she didn't think a Disney movie would be something that inspired nightmares (not mine, hers).

--Dave


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 19, 2015, 10:48:54 AM
puhleeeeez

Fantasia exists and still creeps out children today.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on October 19, 2015, 11:28:06 AM
You're really not representative of the general population.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on October 19, 2015, 12:07:24 PM
You're really not representative of the general population.

Like, at all.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on October 19, 2015, 12:10:28 PM
I saw it when it came out, I was five, and it ruined me in a good way.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 19, 2015, 12:44:00 PM
You're really not representative of the general population.
And thank goodness, the general population is bottom-feeders that really shouldn't have made it past 18.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: slog on October 19, 2015, 12:59:38 PM
No Disney movie requires you being old. And hell, it's only 1979. Comeon.
1979 is closer to the end of WW2 (34 years)  than it is to today (36). Yeah, if you saw it when it was new (I did), you're old. My mom was pissed, she didn't think a Disney movie would be something that inspired nightmares (not mine, hers).

--Dave

I was 10 when that movie came out.  VINCENT was my favorite character.

It's still going to be better than Star Citizen.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tebonas on October 19, 2015, 11:57:15 PM
I remember VINCENT more fondly from when I first watched that movie. The older I get, the less I can stand him and the more I become an Old Bob guy. I wonder why!  :awesome_for_real:

And yes, for a Disney movie that thing was really dark. It had lobodomized working drones and a giant robot that looks like the devil eviscerating people.

Regarding Star Citizens, that podcast wasn't as bad as I feared. Joerg is being an idiot fanboy, but everybody else basically tells him he is.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on October 20, 2015, 12:22:28 AM
That's because VINCENT is a smart ass who quotes Roman philosophers.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Setanta on October 20, 2015, 12:37:21 AM
Disney were amateurs, sure Black Hole inspired nightmares but it was Watership Down that ruined my childhood!

Fuck that screwed with my head.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on October 20, 2015, 01:45:25 AM
That's because VINCENT is a smart ass who quotes Roman philosophers.

In fairness, Pizer was a dick.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on October 23, 2015, 01:29:40 PM
Good read from a game developer about the technical challenges facing SC (http://massivelyop.com/2015/10/21/ascents-lead-dev-offers-insight-on-the-star-citizen-controversy/)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Shannow on October 23, 2015, 01:39:25 PM
Not sure if that guy can be trusted. He lists kereD tramS as one of his heroes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: WayAbvPar on October 23, 2015, 01:53:19 PM
Good read from a game developer about the technical challenges facing SC (http://massivelyop.com/2015/10/21/ascents-lead-dev-offers-insight-on-the-star-citizen-controversy/)

Good read.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on October 23, 2015, 02:13:00 PM
And, as he comes clean about, its a nice bit of free advertising for his own space sandbox game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Montague on October 23, 2015, 03:27:07 PM
And, as he comes clean about, its a nice bit of free advertising for his own space sandbox game.

Oh let's look into the hivemind's thoughts on this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3psoao/a_response_to_ascents_lead_devs_blog_on_sc_from/?

TLDR: Reddit's Star Citizen neckbeard-in-chief SirBruces the article to rapturous applause from the other cult members.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: brellium on October 23, 2015, 06:03:31 PM
No Disney movie requires you being old. And hell, it's only 1979. Comeon.
1979 is closer to the end of WW2 (34 years)  than it is to today (36). Yeah, if you saw it when it was new (I did), you're old. My mom was pissed, she didn't think a Disney movie would be something that inspired nightmares (not mine, hers).

--Dave
Funny, my mother had nightmares of that movie too, I think it was due to quaaludes.
God she hated that drug, and spiders, but really that drug it was probably responsible for the hatred of spiders.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on October 23, 2015, 07:27:41 PM
Good read from a game developer about the technical challenges facing SC (http://massivelyop.com/2015/10/21/ascents-lead-dev-offers-insight-on-the-star-citizen-controversy/)

I can't take the guy too seriously, as he thinks Avatar is an excellent film.

He is wrong.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 23, 2015, 08:18:30 PM
Quote
apparently Smart offered them help at the outset and was ignored — also a miss

what they turned down the offer of close involvement by an unstable fixative personality with a history of histrionics and aggressive personal conflicts what

clearly a miss


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on October 24, 2015, 10:27:22 AM
Not sure if that guy can be trusted. He lists kereD tramS as one of his heroes.

This is how you dismiss a whole "article"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on October 24, 2015, 12:45:36 PM
I can't take the guy too seriously, as he thinks Avatar is an excellent film.

He is wrong.
Luckily his focus is on virtual spaceships technology rather than film critique, and he seems to have much better handle on that. To the point where he apparently did make a working game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Abagadro on October 25, 2015, 05:56:33 PM
No need to filter the good doctor's name, he is reading this thread. He has quoted posts from it in the SA thread twice in the last month. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on October 25, 2015, 06:46:12 PM
No need to filter the good doctor's name, he is reading this thread. He has quoted posts from it in the SA thread twice in the last month. 

 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on October 25, 2015, 07:58:06 PM
No need to filter the good doctor's name, he is reading this thread. He has quoted posts from it in the SA thread twice in the last month. 

They hardcoded that into the boards years ago. Try typing it yourself.

Serek Dmart.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on October 25, 2015, 08:50:05 PM
No need to filter the good doctor's name, he is reading this thread. He has quoted posts from it in the SA thread twice in the last month. 

They hardcoded that into the boards years ago. Try typing it yourself.

Serek Dmart.

OMG it is, too! :thumbs_up:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: slog on October 26, 2015, 02:59:52 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/1ANcdqL.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on October 26, 2015, 04:34:24 PM
Do you have to pay extra for that feature or does it come standard with all ships with a cargo bay?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tannhauser on October 26, 2015, 05:12:57 PM
I like it. It's the new Roberts Space Industries "E-Z Drop" technology. No longer do you have to open up the rear of your starship to unload, which makes your ship interior vulnerable, now you can phase it down to the surface!  They are putting so many cool sci-fi ideas in this game it's not funny.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on October 27, 2015, 03:28:44 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/1ANcdqL.gif)

Image removed.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on October 27, 2015, 06:21:30 AM
What could he possibly use from this thread that would make him appear in a good light?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: apocrypha on October 27, 2015, 07:48:07 AM
Stuff that's not about him.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on October 27, 2015, 07:55:30 AM
Stuff that's not about him.

Everything is about him.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on October 27, 2015, 09:13:13 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/i7YLqkI.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 30, 2015, 05:42:45 PM
i like how something awful is basically goading him and pretending to be his buddy because they can encourage him to be batshit and then watch as he creates epic drama for them


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 30, 2015, 05:47:02 PM
that's what happens when its about feeling special, rather than being awesome

dude just needs a hug from his mom or something, and maybe a whisper of "you never stood a chance in modern society, and your choice of earware should have been an indicator of that, son"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Severian on November 06, 2015, 07:25:57 PM
Meet a fan who has spent $30,000 on Star Citizen ships (http://www.pcgamer.com/meet-a-fan-who-has-spent-30000-on-star-citizen-ships/) (PC Gamer)

Quote
I choose who I tell it to. Like, I haven’t told hardly anybody outside of my wife and kids, and my immediate family. My parents don’t know. They wouldn’t understand it. They would think it’s a crazy, stupid thing. Most people on the street would think it’s a crazy, stupid thing. But I spent 10 years of my gaming life in World of Warcraft. ... And I expect this to live for 10 years, if not more.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on November 06, 2015, 09:03:09 PM
I want to laugh at this man, but all I feel is a distinct sadness.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: apocrypha on November 06, 2015, 11:33:10 PM
Quote
They would think it’s a crazy, stupid thing. Most people on the street would think it’s a crazy, stupid thing.

Yes, that's because it is. And he spent 10 years playing WoW, which is under $1000 in subscription fees. Not $30,000.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ceryse on November 07, 2015, 05:15:27 AM
Meet a fan who has spent $30,000 on Star Citizen ships (http://www.pcgamer.com/meet-a-fan-who-has-spent-30000-on-star-citizen-ships/) (PC Gamer)

Quote
I choose who I tell it to. Like, I haven’t told hardly anybody outside of my wife and kids, and my immediate family. My parents don’t know. They wouldn’t understand it. They would think it’s a crazy, stupid thing. Most people on the street would think it’s a crazy, stupid thing. But I spent 10 years of my gaming life in World of Warcraft. ... And I expect this to live for 10 years, if not more.

This just makes my head hurt. I don't think I've spent anywhere near $30,000 on gaming in my life, even including the costs of the various PCs/consoles I've bought. In fact, I'd be surprised if it passed $15,000.

Hell, if you could guarantee me this game was going to be the best game ever and I'd put over 1,000 hours into it.. I still wouldn't put more than a couple hundred dollars (maximum) into it -- and this game is very, very far from being a guaranteed anything (other than train-wreck).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on November 07, 2015, 05:58:41 AM
Noted crazy person and literal Nazi Vox Day is running a 'brainstorm' event  (http://voxday.blogspot.com/2015/11/brainstorm-with-derek-smart.html)with Serek Dmart about Star Citizen. It's worth noting that Day has commented on SC quite a bit on his blog previously so this isn't entirely out of character but I'm having a hard time thinking up anyone who could be a worse and more easily dismissed ally than him.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on November 07, 2015, 06:19:42 AM
If I add up everything I ever bought or got over the last thirty years - including all of the HW from the Atari 2600 up to my latest MacBook Pro- I might approach $30,000.

This includes an era, though, where you still had to pay $4000 for an Amiga or a PC with a 486 DX, Matrox graphics card and 14 inch CRT 640*480 monitor. It's also an unfair comparison since I use my computers for work related stuff and things other than games. So all the hardware I ever bought, all the games I ever bought and all game subscriptions I ever had.

It would also not even be my most expensive hobby. That would be music since I've probably spent more on instruments, music related hardware and tutoring over the last ten years than I have on gaming related stuff.

Spending that sort of money on a single early access game is insane. It's even more insane if you consider that the same amount of money can easily fund two entire hobbies (e.g. gaming and music making) for two or three decades with orders of magnitude more entertainment gotten out of it.

He can try to rationalize it all he wants but it's still insane.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on November 07, 2015, 07:02:07 AM
Let's see:

Atari 2600 + a few games (must be somewhere in my house)
Commodore VC 20 + tape deck
Commodore 128 + 1571 disc drive (should have bought a Commodore 64 and 1541 instead)
Commodore Amiga 500 + 512k memory expansion ($600 for a whopping 512 k of RAM)
A SNES plus a few games. (I still own that one)
An original gameboy we played bomberman, Tetris and Dr.. Mario on via link cable. (Still own that one)

A 486 DX/50 VESA Local Bus PC with 4 MB of Ram, 512 kB graphics card, 30 MB HD and 14 inch CRT. That one cost $4000 by itself. Also lots of analog joysticks because I played X-Wing, Wing Commander, Strike Commander and Privateer on that. Plus quite a few games. Later a Soundblaster card and CD-ROM, for day of the tentacle and rebel assault. Quite a lot of games.

A Pentium 90 with Adaptec ultra wide SCSI adapter, SCSI HD and single speed CD-Burner. Later upgraded with a Matrox graphics card, 3dfx voodoo card and a 17 inch CRT. Also a ridiculously expensive $250 Realtek 10 MBit/s BNC networking adapter. On this thing I played most of my PC games. System Shock, Doom, Quake, Fallout, Diablo. I later upgraded it to a Pentium 120 and then 166 I believe. Lasted for six years through most of my college and university. Also quite a lot of games.

A Nintendo 64 plus a few games.

A Nintendo GameCube plus a few games.

A used PS2 for GTA Vice City and GTA San Andreas, Also for Guitar Hero.

A PowerBook G4 which was my WoW gaming machine until Wrath of the Lich King. Our guilds first ragnaros kill and black wing lair clear I did on that machine. I also played the open and closed betas on that one. The first computer I bought with money I earned from my job after university. Also my main UNIX machine for SW development and IT stuff.

A PowerBook Core Duo. The first Intel one. WoW machine until I quit shortly before Cataclysm came out. Replaced the previous one.

An 27 inch iMac with core i7 and Nvidia dedicated graphics. I had that one for four years and it's still used by my sister and her husband. Quite usable with boot camp but by that time I was primarily gaming on consoles.

Two PS3's (first one died) plus quite a lot of games.
An Xbox 360 plus quite a few games.
A Wii plus a few games
A PS4 plus a few games
A Wii U plus a few games

My current gaming plus work MacBook Pro I bought two years ago. Core i7, NVidia GT650m. Currently used to play Dark Souls.

That whole laundry list of systems and games (I probably forgot some) and I might just break the $30,000. If I hadn't usually sold off my used stuff when I bought something new which will put the actual total I've spent over the last thirty years much lower than that. Used Macs sell incredibly well and I got quite a lot of Money for my used consoles and games on eBay.

So probably less than a new car costs for thirty years of entertainment.

Seems so much more worthwhile than spending it all on one game. I wouldn't even spend that much on an actual game I played regularly for five years (WoW) let alone on one that by all means will be the next public train wreck


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on November 07, 2015, 04:55:43 PM
No one cares.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on November 07, 2015, 05:15:05 PM
That's ok


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Der Helm on November 11, 2015, 04:46:54 AM
Quote
They would think it’s a crazy, stupid thing. Most people on the street would think it’s a crazy, stupid thing.

What I get from that article is that 30.000 $ is not that much money to him, at least he claims that to be the case. So it's not like he "invested" his kids college fund into the game.

Still stupid, imho, but maybe not insane. Maybe.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on November 12, 2015, 10:36:59 AM
I'm officially just jumping off any hype or hope for this game, I no longer expect it will be fleshed out into a coherent whole beyond "ok but with too many problems and definitely not ready" ( unless it implodes entirely) and will not care to have an early backer account of any sort and much even just won't bother at all

If you have given them any money get it back now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on November 12, 2015, 10:49:15 AM
I'm officially just jumping off any hype or hope for this game, I no longer expect it will be fleshed out into a coherent whole beyond "ok but with too many problems and definitely not ready" ( unless it implodes entirely) and will not care to have an early backer account of any sort and much even just won't bother at all

If you have given them any money get it back now.

Good for you.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on November 12, 2015, 12:19:05 PM
I'm officially just jumping off any hype or hope for this game, I no longer expect it will be fleshed out into a coherent whole beyond "ok but with too many problems and definitely not ready" ( unless it implodes entirely) and will not care to have an early backer account of any sort and much even just won't bother at all

If you have given them any money get it back now.

Better Nate than lever...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on November 12, 2015, 12:29:02 PM
I love that joke.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on November 12, 2015, 01:06:02 PM
Better Nate than lever...
:why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on November 17, 2015, 02:50:33 PM
The Cringe is strong in this one...  :grin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eHe4LgHYcU

(teaser for an upcoming interview)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on November 17, 2015, 06:25:31 PM
Can George Lucas please go sue this fucktard for that video so we can get the inevitable Star Citizen collapse over with quicker?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on November 17, 2015, 06:42:42 PM
Can George Lucas please go sue this fucktard for that video so we can get the inevitable Star Citizen collapse over with quicker?

That would be Disney's job these days.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Gimfain on November 19, 2015, 08:24:21 AM
Can't wait to hear about how much money people will be wasting on this years anniversary sale. They will do a livestream in 2.5 hours to get all suckers in the right spirit.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on November 19, 2015, 11:34:37 AM
Livestream going on right now.

Mark Hamill's character in S42 is called (Lt. Commander) Steve "Old Man" Colton:

http://www.pcgamer.com/mark-hamill-talks-star-citizen-wing-commander-and-star-wars/

PC Gamer's next issue cover features a pic of his in-game character (it's in the link)

EDIT: better pic on GameStar:



"Old Man" teaser:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjSXcdvd-ME

Nice to see you again, Colonel Blair  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on November 19, 2015, 12:04:26 PM
The Anvil Crucible (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15066-Wandering-Workshop-The-Anvil-Crucible), a ship mainly dedicated to repair & maintenance. There is also a design post dedicated to how repair & maintenance is gonna work in Star Citizen:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/15062-Ship-Repair-And-Maintenance


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on November 19, 2015, 01:07:46 PM
Module #739293: Space Mechanic, otherwise known as Chico and the Man.

Fuck... me.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: WayAbvPar on November 19, 2015, 01:21:03 PM
Module #739293: Space Mechanic, otherwise known as Chico and the Man.

Fuck... me.

And when it fails CR is going to Freddie Prinze himself.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on November 19, 2015, 03:31:50 PM
I've just finished watching the interview with Mark Hamill featured in the PC Gamer link I posted earlier and what a lovable guy he is. He talks about a lot of stuff, so watch it when you can.

Here's another interview, this time with John-Rhys Davies on GameStar (it's in english):

http://www.gamestar.de/videos/specials,20/star-citizen-squadron-42,86250.html

He plays a character called "Graves" an ex-comrade of the "Old Man" (Mark Hamill); and yeah, he says it kinda shares similar traits with Paladin (Wing Commander) and his relationship with Blair, although the backstory sounds quite different.

Another video: BTS with Mark Hamill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vRE6LtYBHg

...Or, "Watch old and young men wearing the latest in fashion with funny dots on their face"  :grin:
---------

Last but not least, SC Alpha 2.0  will be released tonight to 1,000 backers; Erin Roberts said they hope to fully open it by the end of next week.

Feature list:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3thnrj/confirmed_20_feature_list/ (flyable ships listed are just the new ones. The single-seater, already flyable ones will be in as well)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on November 19, 2015, 05:14:13 PM
Module #739293: Space Mechanic, otherwise known as Chico and the Man.

Fuck... me.
Puzzle Pirates had it long before Star Citizen. It was also pretty entertaining mini-game, while this... I dunno, it's like they're trying to out-SWG the SWG. :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on November 21, 2015, 10:28:45 AM
Looks like they released the multiverse or whatever it's called. Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC17567Zg8Y&feature=youtu.be&t=96


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on November 21, 2015, 06:46:06 PM
Yup, allegedly it crashes a lot and is limited to about ~15 ships (since ships can have larger crews not sure how that translates to number of actual players)

In response the Good Doctor released another blog (tl;dr: doom. DOOOOOOOOM)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on November 21, 2015, 07:26:30 PM
Module #739293: Space Mechanic, otherwise known as Chico and the Man.

Fuck... me.

What's wrong with adding features at twice the rate of implementing them?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Soulflame on November 22, 2015, 07:42:46 PM
Sounds about right for a development house.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: fang on November 22, 2015, 08:17:27 PM
Looks like they released the multiverse or whatever it's called. Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC17567Zg8Y&feature=youtu.be&t=96

Some thoughts:

1) In the future, have they forgotten about circuit breakers?  Why does damaged equipment sit there and spark, presumably forever?
2) Space toilet bogey sighted at 6:46!  I wonder which stretch goal was the one that required personal elimination?
3) So the grand purpose of all this space battling and first-person engine building is to navigate into the space station and PUSH THE SINGLE GIANT RED BUTTON THAT FIXES EVERYTHING?  Are plot points duplicating Quake 2 gameplay the best they could come up with?
4) Please tell me there's a check box that disables the rotating captain's chair animation.  That's cool perhaps once.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on November 22, 2015, 10:02:39 PM
What's wrong with adding features at twice the rate of implementing them?
Not much, really; i think the problem is their rate is way higher than that :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: luckton on December 01, 2015, 11:16:31 AM
Lil' Jon is my co-pilot. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF6RwJnIBKw)

 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on December 04, 2015, 04:43:45 AM
Nice to see even some people on the SC forums are calling bullshit on this one. (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/301498/alpha-2-0-trailer-confusion-our-apologies)

For context, they had a trailer on The Game Awards (I cringe even typing that). The trailer ends with "Playable now with Alpha 2.0". Problem is, they didn't get 2.0 ready in time and it's still on their test server and only available for the first 100k or so backers. Ben posts an explanation that they had to turn the trailer in early to get in on the Game Awards and it wasn't until later that they realized 2.0 wasn't going to be ready when the trailer was broadcast. Some people then point out that not only is that kind of a shitty excuse for false advertising, but that they also posted the trailer up on the Star Citizen youtube account with "available to the players NOW" in the description and linked to the video on their website.

Edit: Also, even the trailer has lag and frame rate issues.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on December 14, 2015, 05:42:42 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR3YMVw4wLU

Don't look half bad.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on December 14, 2015, 08:57:33 AM
I have revised my assessment of this game's future. It's going to be Vertical Slice: The Game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on December 16, 2015, 05:44:19 PM
Pretty sweet.
https://youtu.be/-yLTm8DZ8s4


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on December 16, 2015, 05:57:53 PM
And then apparently when Chris Roberts was actually playing the game in a live stream today he was having a bunch of technical issues and cursing the UI, and giving the general impression that he never actually plays his own game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on December 16, 2015, 08:41:31 PM
Pretty sweet.
https://youtu.be/-yLTm8DZ8s4

The first 10 seconds were ok, but then I got bored and I wasn't at all as impressed as the subtitles seemed expect me to be.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on December 16, 2015, 10:29:57 PM
And then apparently when Chris Roberts was actually playing the game in a live stream today he was having a bunch of technical issues and cursing the UI, and giving the general impression that he never actually plays his own game.

The same thing happened a year or two ago when he first showed off Arena Commander. I get the distinct impression that he only actually plays the game for like 15 minutes a week.

Probably hard to find time to play it when he's busy plotting out the next trailer for the next $300 ship.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on December 17, 2015, 03:47:51 AM
These hookers won't snort the cocaine off themselves, themselves.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on December 17, 2015, 05:33:04 AM
That's going in the bank. :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: penfold on December 18, 2015, 03:33:56 PM
Change the word "game" to "fund", and "ships" to "investments" and Roberts would be sat in a SEC cell next to Martin Shrekli by now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on January 02, 2016, 08:50:12 AM
Star Citizen to refocus on supporting VR.

http://www.roadtovr.com/star-citizen-to-refocus-on-vr-support-in-early-2016/

I'm sure this will not delay the game at all.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: penfold on January 02, 2016, 01:37:14 PM
Crowdfund car. Get boat.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on January 02, 2016, 05:02:23 PM
CCP did a VR side-game about flying a spaceship and shooting shit a while ago, iirc. Maybe Star Citizen could start a kickstarter to buy them out, for the valuable development know-how :why_so_serious:

(they'd be like peas in a pod, come to think of it)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on January 03, 2016, 12:31:26 PM
Eve Valkyrie, but it's not out yet. It will soon enough though as it will be sold in an bundle with the consumer version of the Oculus Rift.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on January 03, 2016, 03:52:58 PM
Eve Valkyrie, but it's not out yet.
See, the peas in a pod.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on January 03, 2016, 09:28:50 PM
Eve Valkyrie, but it's not out yet. It will soon enough though as it will be sold in an bundle with the consumer version of the Oculus Rift.

Ahh what a kidder you are. Not familiar with CCP, are we?  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on January 04, 2016, 10:27:18 AM
YES! VR is exactly the kind of nonsense this game had to provide. Synergy!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on January 05, 2016, 02:23:58 PM
Oh look, a photo (https://www.facebook.com/215475438505750/photos/a.429027047150587.107566.215475438505750/968218136564806/?type=3&theater) of one of the Dev Teams somewhere in the world with CR and Sandi!


In a parking lot.


(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/dickfigures/images/d/d0/Troll-Face-Dancing1.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tannhauser on January 05, 2016, 02:52:09 PM
That is a diverse crowd of young, white males.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on January 05, 2016, 03:23:15 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/cLqwJfu.png)

Somewhere Sanya Weathers is twitching uncontrollably and she doesn't know why.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on January 05, 2016, 06:13:01 PM
I can't find an emoticon that fits. Something that's a combination of  :uhrr: and  :ye_gods: with a dash of  :oh_i_see:

"I am one of the best saleswomen in the world and always have been..."

Using what metric, exactly? The P.T. Barnum scale of Egress?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on January 05, 2016, 06:25:20 PM
Who did she send that crap to? A random disgruntled fan who I would assume was asking for a refund?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on January 05, 2016, 06:45:28 PM
That's the kind of professionalism I'd expect out of the best saleswoman in the world.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on January 05, 2016, 08:59:22 PM
Who did she send that crap to? A random disgruntled fan who I would assume was asking for a refund?

Short answer is that it was in response to a Goon who had been communicating with C.S. in regards to a permanent forum ban that he felt went against the stated ban policy (and also an unrelated issue regarding some gifted items or something).

The long answer is here. (http://imgur.com/a/BIlWu)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on January 05, 2016, 10:34:52 PM
"I am one of the best saleswomen in the world and always have been..."

Using what metric, exactly? The P.T. Barnum scale of Egress?
I think we can trust one of the best salespersons in the world to know one of the best salespersons in the world, when she sees them. If you can't trust such an expert, who you can trust?

Joking aside, they did squeeze over 100 mil out of idiots, with little more but promises and pretty pictures. That is some genuine marketing prowess. :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on January 05, 2016, 10:51:20 PM
Not really. Somehow coming out the other side of this without spectacular failure and angst from those they've fleeced will be a trick, currently they're still riding the wave.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on January 06, 2016, 02:59:36 AM
The prowess expressed is the same as any huckster. It's simple to squeeze money from idiots, it just means you know a mark not an example of prowess.  Thus my reference to Barnum and his egress scam. Let's not forget hes the reason for the coined phrase, "a sucker is born every minute."

Scams and sales only look similar.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: squirrel on January 07, 2016, 08:26:25 PM
The SA thread linked above is really fucking great. Even if you don't care for goons it's worth a read, it's astonishing and goons have made a frenemy pact with Serek Dmart and are trolling CIG / cultists but quiet cleverly. That email above is from the thread and was written by Sandi. Don't try to read the whole thing though, you'll die.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on January 07, 2016, 09:24:13 PM
VR was exactly the excuse CIG needed to pretend why the game continues to be in development for the next two years.

Expect them to write a post six months from now explaining why the shift to VR had unfortunately delayed development and release.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Azazel on January 08, 2016, 03:38:13 AM
Eve Valkyrie, but it's not out yet.
See, the peas in a pod.

Roberts pees in the space pod?

Holy shit. I just read the rest of the posts here. And, holy shit.

Such modesty from someone who clearly made it to the top on her own.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on January 30, 2016, 01:13:13 PM
Star Citizen to refocus on supporting VR.

http://www.roadtovr.com/star-citizen-to-refocus-on-vr-support-in-early-2016/

I'm sure this will not delay the game at all.  :why_so_serious:

you may call it scope creep II


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Setanta on January 30, 2016, 02:00:53 PM
Quote
At the December livestream, we announced that Squadron 42 and Star Citizen will be split into two separate packages in the near future. To update on this: the split will occur on February 14th. Squadron 42 will be available as either a stand alone game or an optional addon for Star Citizen rather than be included by default. If you want to lock in both games for the lowest possible price, consider pledging before this deadline.

Holy shit, "give us more money to play the game we might release one day except now were going to break it into modules so that you can pay more for each one even though some of you have lashed out thousands already"



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Torinak on January 30, 2016, 03:02:01 PM
Quote
At the December livestream, we announced that Squadron 42 and Star Citizen will be split into two separate packages in the near future. To update on this: the split will occur on February 14th. Squadron 42 will be available as either a stand alone game or an optional addon for Star Citizen rather than be included by default. If you want to lock in both games for the lowest possible price, consider pledging before this deadline.

Holy shit, "give us more money to play the game we might release one day except now were going to break it into modules so that you can pay more for each one even though some of you have lashed out thousands already"



It's a natural progression of the business model. First, pay for something that doesn't exist. Then, pay twice (or more) for the same thing that still doesn't exist.

Any bets for how long it takes them to "refocus" into a subscription-only game? Maybe they can be pioneers in another way and require a pre-launch subscription in order to get basic functionality ifwhen it's released.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: March on February 01, 2016, 03:44:57 PM
I don't care about this game... but c'mon people... I expect more:

http://www.slashgear.com/play-star-citizen-for-free-this-week-01425109/ (http://www.slashgear.com/play-star-citizen-for-free-this-week-01425109/)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rasix on February 01, 2016, 03:48:36 PM
Is our twitter robot on vacation?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on February 01, 2016, 05:47:05 PM
How many terabytes does their client take now?

Not going to bother downloading because I don't have a spare hard drive, but curious :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ezrast on February 02, 2016, 02:00:33 AM
28 GB if the launcher isn't lying to me.

I'm going in. If I don't post screenshots soon, tell my family I love them.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sophismata on February 04, 2016, 03:20:46 PM
28 GB if the launcher isn't lying to me.

I'm going in. If I don't post screenshots soon, tell my family I love them.

Your sacrifice was not in vain.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on February 05, 2016, 01:06:17 AM
28 GB if the launcher isn't lying to me.

I'm going in. If I don't post screenshots soon, tell my family I love them.

Thank you. You'll not be forgotten  :heart:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on February 05, 2016, 01:11:50 AM
Is it news to anyone that now Star Citizen and Squadron 42 will be sold as two separate products?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on February 05, 2016, 01:29:32 AM
Didn't they basically announce this like a year ago?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tebonas on February 05, 2016, 01:31:14 AM
It was news to me.

Which one will the Kickstarter backers get, then?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on February 05, 2016, 01:34:00 AM
I think Kickstarters will get both, as it would be ground for legal hell if they didn't. But newcomers will have to pay twice. Or, of course, get the bundle now before the deal is over!

 :why_so_serious:

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/star-citizen-and-single-player-mode-squadron-42-wo/1100-6434373/


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ezrast on February 05, 2016, 02:23:41 AM
Hey, I'm not dead! It's just taking a while to get through because still images really aren't enough to capture the glory that is Star Citizen, and also because the game is really bad.

Warning, 80 MB of gifs ahead.

Anyway, that's all I've got so far but I'll try to post about some of the real flying around bits if I can summon the strength to figure out how any of it works. Contrary to the article linked above, the free promo period runs until the 8th, so if this looks like a good use of $100 million to you, there's still time to get in on the action!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on February 05, 2016, 02:35:19 AM
 :ye_gods: :facepalm: :argh:

The jerking of the ship is probably caused by the physics engine waking up and suddenly deciding that it has to apply physics modelling to the ship.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on February 05, 2016, 06:31:17 AM
Thread again delivers.  I'm excited to enter this new phase.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tmon on February 05, 2016, 08:14:51 AM
Thread again delivers.  I'm excited to enter this new phase.

Yes, the returns on my $0 investment in this game have far exceeded my expectations.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ruvaldt on February 05, 2016, 09:21:47 AM
Clearly this is just another feature.  Your pilot has Space Parkinson's and you need the services of another player to perform a stem cell research mini-game to cure it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on February 06, 2016, 02:24:17 PM
Speaking of features, this is the kind of cutting edge technology $107 million allows them to develop: (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15187-Monthly-Studio-Report)

Quote
Hi everyone, a new year starts with new technological challenges. We released 2.0 in December and 2.1 in January, each accompanied by a PTU phase before they went live. Star Citizen nowadays has a size of ~30GB, which means that with the current patch model, the backers have to download a load of data (Especially on the PTU where we want as many people as possible to make the game stable prior to going live). The size is the same internally for us, as even a 1GBit LAN connection cannot transfer 30 GB instantly. Hence we in Frankfurt collaborated with our Austin engineers on how to tackle this problem. We came up with a good solution in which we all believe in and have started to implement. The idea is to design a system which knows your local data, knows what data should be in the build, and then selectively downloads and updates your local data set to match the one of the build. For example, if between two PTU release, zero textures are changed, then no texture will be downloaded, reducing the required download by several GB. We hope to start testing this system soon internally and then extend it to our public releases as well. Unfortunately, as this is part an integration process which often tend to have many small issues which add up to a lot of time, I can only give you Soon™ as an estimate.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on February 06, 2016, 02:43:44 PM
... the fuck?

Are they really trying to claim that they came up with the idea for incremental patching and checksums all by themselves and that that is somehow an idea they had never considered before this moment? I mean, they must be proud of it if it's important enough that they comment on their web site about adding such a feature to their builds.

I just... gobsmacked. Absolutely gobsmacked.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MahrinSkel on February 06, 2016, 03:05:47 PM
I am not going to comment on anything said there. I am merely going to note that we were able to buy equivalent functionality, off the shelf and with a choice of multiple vendors at reasonable (for a *much* smaller budget) rates...in 2000. I haven't followed that particular sub-field lately, I suppose it is possible that there has been a regression or consolidation. Although, I think that Origin rolled their own in 1997, and they had an even smaller budget than ours (but a slightly different technical problem, as they were 2.5D instead of 3D).

--Dave


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on February 06, 2016, 03:34:48 PM
Every time they've released an update (and apparently they've been doing it fairly frequently since 2.0 launched), players have been having to download the whole thing each time.

But hey, at least they don't put out updates unless it's for something important! Or not: (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/6325312/#Comment_6325312)

Quote
A lot of folks have asked why there isn't a public 'future feature list' for upcoming patches. It's because of how the development process for the PU works: for each patch, we have a set of things different team members are working on... so Sean might be working on EVA, and Daniel might be working on the Reliant, BHVR might be working on shopping and so on. But the cutoff is time based rather than feature based... so everything that's working on February Xth will be in 2.2, and everything that needs more work waits for 2.3. It's a system that lets us get more patches out, and spend the most amount of time on getting features right... but it also makes marketing the things a little harder. (The end result is that we know, for sure, what's "in" only a matter of hours before the patches go to the PTU.)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: fang on February 06, 2016, 08:08:23 PM
Every time they've released an update (and apparently they've been doing it fairly frequently since 2.0 launched), players have been having to download the whole thing each time.

But hey, at least they don't put out updates unless it's for something important! Or not: (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/6325312/#Comment_6325312)

Quote
A lot of folks have asked why there isn't a public 'future feature list' for upcoming patches.

Amazing.

If they're forcing their customers to download the entire install every time even a single byte changes, then I wonder what they think the word "patch" means?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on February 06, 2016, 09:26:42 PM
 :uhrr:

We only know what's going in the patch hours before we actually patch.

 :ye_gods:

I can't imagine what could possibly go wrong with that strategy.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on February 06, 2016, 11:12:06 PM
Hey, you can't have delays when there aren't any deadlines on when things need to be done.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ezrast on February 07, 2016, 12:46:05 AM
I think that's more common than most people realize for software with rapid development cycles, especially games. Compiling patch notes is actually sort of a lot of work that nobody wants to do, and since the game is (a) in prerelease and (b) already utterly bug-ridden it's not like they can break anything important that isn't already in pieces.

The "our international team of expert engineers all put their heads together and reinvented rsync" bit is utterly, utterly :uhrr: though. Holy shitballs.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: apocrypha on February 07, 2016, 01:48:16 AM
There is no feature creep. (https://gfycat.com/JubilantConventionalCarpenterant)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ezrast on February 07, 2016, 06:10:04 AM
PART TWO

(still lots of gifs)

There is one more game mode (Arena Commander) that has actual spaceship content with things to shoot, I think. I may or may not get to it before free access ends. There's also a tutorial on taking off, landing, combat, etc, which actually looked like it was reasonably well-done except that I couldn't get through it because it was incredibly stuttery and the whole game would freeze up every few seconds, which never happened in any other mode. Oh well.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Xuri on February 07, 2016, 10:12:08 AM
If - while in space outside Port Olisar - you press 'B', aim towards one of the targets that appear in space somewhere around your ship, then hit the middle mouse button (I think), you will use quantum to go really fast, to some other small space stations and/or something, where you can fire weapons at things. Or people.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on February 07, 2016, 11:17:31 AM
There is no feature creep. (https://gfycat.com/JubilantConventionalCarpenterant)

My God, it's full of stars... oh wait, no, that's just some soulless plastic asshole in an over elaborate helmet.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sophismata on February 07, 2016, 02:48:06 PM
Hey, I'm not dead! It's just taking a while to get through because still images really aren't enough to capture the glory that is Star Citizen, and also because the game is really bad.

You're doing God's work, son.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on February 07, 2016, 03:23:31 PM
:uhrr:

We only know what's going in the patch hours before we actually patch.

 :ye_gods:

I can't imagine what could possibly go wrong with that strategy.
This isn't uncommon at all, especially for games that are still in an alpha/early beta state. Basically you have your sprint and then you release a build at the end of it. If you miss any sprint goals (which you do a lot in early development) then those features aren't going to be in the released build. There's going to be a lot of last minute commits and also a high chance that QA doesn't sign off on something that then has to be reverted. You generally only have a final, final list of what's actually in the build right before you start it going.

Obviously, once you are looking at gold release candidates and post-launch updates, it's a different story. If it looks like your feature is going to miss the sprint then your producer is going to suggest that you don't go home this week and put all those 'sleeping' and 'socialising' hours into work instead.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on February 07, 2016, 04:10:21 PM
Every sprint in an agile development cycle has a set of goals that you're likely to reach. A sprint also includes testing. The whole point of shorter stints is to have less time between a feature push and a test cycle to catch and fix bugs early.

If your development sprint is not running on a design -> develop -> text cycle and you literally don't know the features of the next push right until the end you're doing it wrong.

Early access doesn't mean that you can forego internal testing before you push a beta seed to your backers.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: slog on February 07, 2016, 06:45:37 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etun8gf4MgU


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mithas on February 07, 2016, 07:31:27 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etun8gf4MgU

:awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on February 07, 2016, 07:56:44 PM
Whether you know what's in the patch at the last minute or not, you still don't TELL people that. It makes you look like complete fucking amateurs.

Oh... right.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on February 08, 2016, 01:54:54 AM
Seeing these pictures reminds me why Chris Roberts has such a bad reputation with publsihers. 70 million, three years of dev time and the 'vertical cut' he put out is full of glaring issues and it isn't even structured in a way that let's you iterate on design or game mechanics of a single part of a game.

In the time RSI made this aborted fetus of an alpha Frontier developments has managed a public alpha, several public betas, has put out the base game on three systems (Windows MacOS and XBox One), has already released the first expansion and is currently working on more content and a second expansion and they managed to sell E:D to 1.4 million people. All with  far smaller budget and team.

By that rate E:D might end up being more of a Star Citizen than Star Citizen if or when that finally is released.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on February 09, 2016, 07:51:09 AM
... the fuck?

Are they really trying to claim that they came up with the idea for incremental patching and checksums all by themselves and that that is somehow an idea they had never considered before this moment? I mean, they must be proud of it if it's important enough that they comment on their web site about adding such a feature to their builds.

I just... gobsmacked. Absolutely gobsmacked.
To be fair it took Steam about this long to implement theirs, too :oh_i_see:

(though yeah, Valve didn't claim it was a new invention...)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on February 09, 2016, 06:53:20 PM
ED is not even a game. You can't compare them right now imo.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hutch on February 09, 2016, 08:06:58 PM
If ED is not a game, but Star Citizen is a game, then the word has lost all meaning.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on February 10, 2016, 08:24:40 AM
Star Citizen is a game... a con game.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on February 10, 2016, 08:53:14 AM
ED is not even a game. You can't compare them right now imo.

Say what now?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on February 10, 2016, 10:47:15 AM
ED is not even a game. You can't compare them right now imo.
I am curious about what I have done for 600 hours, because according to you it could not have been playing a game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on February 10, 2016, 11:40:35 AM
I think Draegan just messed up the initials. He wanted to type SC and somehow came up with ED.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on February 10, 2016, 12:55:54 PM
I certainly hope so. Because otherwise :uhrr:.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on February 10, 2016, 01:42:23 PM
would you like to play a not game?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on February 11, 2016, 03:03:18 AM
would you like to play a not game?
The only way to not win is to play.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on February 12, 2016, 03:08:00 AM
No, I think he meant what he said. 

ED is a kid actually learning martial arts,
SC is the promise of Chuck Norris in person,

and he's saying "ED isn't even an adult yet, how can you compare with Chuck Norris?"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on February 12, 2016, 06:22:28 AM
ED can puncn you in the bollox. Cardboard cut out of Chuck Norris can't


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on February 12, 2016, 06:35:38 AM
i can install ED on my computer and scoot around space and get myself a midgrade ship and shoot some pirates and trade some goods and travel to some nebulae and scan some stellar phenomena and ship rare artifacts and land on some planets and buggy around collecting materials and whatnot. Super sandboxy, mostly about the hard-sim euro-space-trucking experience of learning how to be best space pilot, but that's what it do. It's a game fo sho.

i can install eight trillion terabytes of SC on my computer and get my head stuck in the wall while my unoccupied ship vibrates stridently off the landing platform. i guess that is a game too?????


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on February 12, 2016, 09:19:44 AM
People get real pissy over Elite Dangerous because everybody has a different dream about what their space game should be like. Unfortunately this means that Elite only lives up to the expectations of a portion of the player base. I love the shit out of ED, but that doesn't blind me to the fact that for some players it is wildly empty and unfulfilling.

However, at the rate that Frontier is developing their title, it will be everything SC is promising before SC ever gets released if it does become released.

For the record, I have both installed on my computer and so far, Star Citizen is a hot mess and it feels tiny after playing ED.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: apocrypha on February 12, 2016, 10:25:47 AM
Whatever your personal views are regarding ED it's released, it's functioning, it's updating, it's a real thing that you can pay for and get something in return for that payment. Call it a game, call it a simulation, call it what you want, it exists and it does what it says on the tin. Nobody has been ripped off by ED, nobody has been fleeced to the tune of $1000s, nobody had their life ruined by it's deceptive and amoral marketing.

Then there's SC.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: brellium on February 15, 2016, 07:46:23 PM
Quote from: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-35555086
Star Citizen: Will big budget space game satisfy its backers?
fluff piece.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on February 15, 2016, 08:00:02 PM
Quote from: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-35555086
Star Citizen: Will big budget space game satisfy its backers?
fluff piece.

Quote from: BBC Article
So, it looks like we are going to have to wait a little bit longer to play the full Star Citizen experience.

 :why_so_serious: :why_so_serious: :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on February 16, 2016, 05:24:39 AM
So now SC is like a single player game that you have to buy, then buy each episode for, then a multiplayer game you also have to buy separately, then also an competitive FPS which is...also separate?

I guess the new strategy now is rather than introducing new ships and other promises people can pay for just keep subdividing the game into smaller chunks and charge for each.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Zetor on February 16, 2016, 05:49:26 AM
Perhaps make it so that player-bought spaceships are only available in one of the games by default (probably the singleplayer one), and you need to pay extra to be able to use them in the other game modes? Heck, make the surcharge scale with the value of the ships. :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on February 16, 2016, 05:49:39 AM
They'll just keep chopping it up until whatever is live is the full release. Kickstarter complete!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on February 16, 2016, 05:50:06 AM
However, at the rate that Frontier is developing their title, it will be everything SC is promising before SC ever gets released if it does become released.

Which was my point also


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on February 16, 2016, 08:33:02 AM
People get real pissy over Elite Dangerous because everybody has a different dream about what their space game should be like. Unfortunately this means that Elite only lives up to the expectations of a portion of the player base. I love the shit out of ED, but that doesn't blind me to the fact that for some players it is wildly empty and unfulfilling.

However, at the rate that Frontier is developing their title, it will be everything SC is promising before SC ever gets released if it does become released.

For the record, I have both installed on my computer and so far, Star Citizen is a hot mess and it feels tiny after playing ED.

yeah one of the things that becomes obvious after playing it for a while is you can know who will enjoy the experience, and who will be left wanting. There's so, so, infinitely much breadth but everything is lacking depth and they have a long way to go before they introduce sufficient mechanics and interactivity with the world to make it a real contender for Best Space Ever.

But they have the template. And it is enjoyable to surf the edge of what might be. Right now it's Euro Space Trucker and that's cool too.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Big Gulp on February 16, 2016, 08:59:03 AM
yeah one of the things that becomes obvious after playing it for a while is you can know who will enjoy the experience, and who will be left wanting. There's so, so, infinitely much breadth but everything is lacking depth and they have a long way to go before they introduce sufficient mechanics and interactivity with the world to make it a real contender
But they have the template. And it is enjoyable to surf the edge of what might be. Right now it's Euro Space Trucker and that's cool too.

I don't think ED will ever be more than the shallow sandbox it was on launch.  It wasn't designed to be anything more than what it is, and that won't change, no matter how many other boring, shallow modules you tack onto it (for full price each time!)

I don't condone how they've handled space ponzi, but in a weird way I'm completely confident that whatever they launch when they finally go gold will be more compelling than ED.  It's not like the bar is that high.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on February 17, 2016, 12:27:58 AM
Quote
I ask Braben about the state of the game today, and whether there’s anything that he thinks could be improved. “There are a lot of things wrong with the powers,” he says, referring to last year’s Powerplay update. “We’re close, but the details stop it from being great. But we can improve it, and we will improve it.”

“There are missions out there I know almost no players have seen,” he says. “But we haven’t communicated it properly. There’s so much in there, and what we see from play patterns is that many do the same thing over and over. In that cycle, they just don’t get to see some of the variation. I’m not blaming players. We got it wrong.”

Braben adds that even when he was playing the game in a certain way, he wasn’t seeing everything. “I wasn’t making friends with the minor factions. I was missing out on missions. And most players do that,” he says. “It’s a shame, because the missions actually drive you around the galaxy. But if you keep going back to the same place, you won’t venture very far. We need to change the way we communicate that.”

But, at the same time, Braben doesn’t want to be telling players what to do. It’s a difficult balance in a totally freeform sandbox game like Elite Dangerous.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on February 17, 2016, 01:45:14 AM
That seems fair comment.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on February 17, 2016, 07:12:12 AM
Easy peasy, so all they have to do is communicate options and intent better while not telling the player what to do.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on February 17, 2016, 10:57:06 AM
ED may benefit from employment tracks where you are given assignments, station, and perks associated with your job.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on February 17, 2016, 11:44:56 AM
ED may benefit from employment tracks where you are given assignments, station, and perks associated with your job.
This has been suggested so many times on the official forums, Frontier doesn't appear to be interested in exploring that type of game play.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on February 18, 2016, 01:53:57 AM
Perhaps make it so that player-bought spaceships are only available in one of the games by default (probably the singleplayer one), and you need to pay extra to be able to use them in the other game modes? Heck, make the surcharge scale with the value of the ships. :why_so_serious:

Now you're using your noggin! This is the sort brilliant idea that CIG needs more of!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on February 18, 2016, 01:32:42 PM
Easy peasy, so all they have to do is communicate options and intent better while not telling the player what to do.
Even something basic like getting daily 'assignment' of a few randomly picked tasks, the way World of Warships/Tank games do it, could probably do a trick.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on March 11, 2016, 09:04:51 AM
A guy on SA has been transcribing all of the devblogs. They are kinda bad. Part 1 (http://pastebin.com/AnHTe48V), Part 2 (http://pastebin.com/Wj2yBzwA)

Quote
Q: So the Endeavour has bio domes. What will be the point of farming? And will there be bacon farming?
 
A: Well the point of farming will be... ah, you know, the BIO DOMES will allow you to grow, ah, agriculture, you know, crops, ah, and you'll be able to... SELL those, probably for a premium so the idea will be, the Bio Domes in the Endeavour are sort of growing things that you couldn't normally necessarily grow on a planet, and you can maybe sell for a premium, whatever it would be, ah, I'm sure lotsa people will go "SPACE WEED!" but um, you know there'll be plenty of other things too, ahaha, um, so... you know it's, it's ah, it's a sort of farming mechanic, so you'd have that in, ah, you know you'd have that in space, you'd maintain it like perhaps you know, you have to take the... your ship would have to be a certain distance from the local system STAR or, you know you'd have to tend, fend for it make sure it's... ah, you know GROWN in, you know, like, perhaps the lower gravity setup makes you able to grow a better strain of... whatever it will be, WHEAT etc ah, so there you go

Bear in mind that the questions are cherry picked in advance, he's not getting blindsided live by gotchas. He has time to prepare an answer for each of them.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Gimfain on March 11, 2016, 09:17:42 AM
A guy on SA has been transcribing all of the devblogs. They are kinda bad. Part 1 (http://pastebin.com/AnHTe48V), Part 2 (http://pastebin.com/Wj2yBzwA)

Quote
Q: So the Endeavour has bio domes. What will be the point of farming? And will there be bacon farming?
 
A: Well the point of farming will be... ah, you know, the BIO DOMES will allow you to grow, ah, agriculture, you know, crops, ah, and you'll be able to... SELL those, probably for a premium so the idea will be, the Bio Domes in the Endeavour are sort of growing things that you couldn't normally necessarily grow on a planet, and you can maybe sell for a premium, whatever it would be, ah, I'm sure lotsa people will go "SPACE WEED!" but um, you know there'll be plenty of other things too, ahaha, um, so... you know it's, it's ah, it's a sort of farming mechanic, so you'd have that in, ah, you know you'd have that in space, you'd maintain it like perhaps you know, you have to take the... your ship would have to be a certain distance from the local system STAR or, you know you'd have to tend, fend for it make sure it's... ah, you know GROWN in, you know, like, perhaps the lower gravity setup makes you able to grow a better strain of... whatever it will be, WHEAT etc ah, so there you go

Bear in mind that the questions are cherry picked in advance, he's not getting blindsided live by gotchas. He has time to prepare an answer for each of them.
Sounds like he spent some money on space weed himself


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on March 11, 2016, 10:00:43 AM
someone repost that goon video about smoking weed in star citizen space court


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on March 11, 2016, 10:01:16 AM
Yeah, he probably bought that good low grav space weed.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on March 11, 2016, 10:10:12 AM
"We thought the idea of a spaceship with a biodome sounded cool, but we have not actually put any more thought to it yet."

 :uhrr:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on March 11, 2016, 11:29:51 AM
I am waiting for the announcement that they need to push back the release schedule so the can redesign the engine again so that they can get farming just right, because they only want the best quality for their loyal marks...I mean supporters.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on March 11, 2016, 12:20:12 PM
parallel launch of SpaceVille allows you to crew an active player's space farm ship


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on March 11, 2016, 12:40:15 PM
Putting thought into game design = Stretch goal

Keep those checking coming!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: UnSub on March 14, 2016, 09:37:09 AM
Is there a proper term for a madlibs version of 'choose a space opera feature set' game like Star Citizen? It's not even vapourware, it's more like dreamware or wishware.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on March 14, 2016, 09:43:15 AM
Is there a proper term for a madlibs version of 'choose a space opera feature set' game like Star Citizen? It's not even vapourware, it's more like dreamware or wishware.
Dawnware


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on March 14, 2016, 11:00:59 AM
Panderware


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on March 14, 2016, 11:05:10 AM
In the future, the expression "citizenware" will be used.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rasix on March 14, 2016, 11:07:29 AM
We have someone on our (Black Desert Online guild) voice comms that has totally drank the Kool Aid on this.  Mentioned something about the sandboxy-ness of BDO, and he cheerily chimed in with "yah, but the only thing that will be better is Star Citizen".  Immediate response from Ard and myself was along the lines of anything you'll see in this thread, although more of the lines of "90% of the crap he's promising won't be there".  Dude sounded like we really hurt his feelings so we just dropped it.

The believers still believe.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on March 14, 2016, 11:33:03 AM
While I'm still in the iwanttobelieve.jpg camp, at the same time  I'm having too much fun lurking in the dedicated somethingawful thread  :drill:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on March 14, 2016, 01:38:48 PM
We have someone on our (Black Desert Online guild) voice comms that has totally drank the Kool Aid on this.  Mentioned something about the sandboxy-ness of BDO, and he cheerily chimed in with "yah, but the only thing that will be better is Star Citizen".  Immediate response from Ard and myself was along the lines of anything you'll see in this thread, although more of the lines of "90% of the crap he's promising won't be there".  Dude sounded like we really hurt his feelings so we just dropped it.

The believers still believe.

There's a video interview with one of the former graphics leads. He's being very circumspect and not throwing CIG under the bus explicitly but the tone of his unprompted answers about the state of SC shows that he's very pessimistic about the whole thing. He even brings up the Escapist article at one point and the interviewer says 'well all of that was bullshit though' to which he replies, 'no it wasn't'.

Needless to say the true believers are still claiming that a guy who worked at a high level on developing the game doesn't understand the game development process and that he's just bitter that he's not working on the greatest piece of software ever to exist any more.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hoax on March 14, 2016, 02:35:07 PM
Most of the ships they've sold for buckets of real money have been like that though.

Yacht/luxury liner/passenger transport

Exploration

Hauling/mercantile/caro

Police?

Search & Rescue / EMT?

Mining

Salvage

Boarding other ships

Information smuggling

-All of those things need to be game systems somehow. Yet none of these rubes seem to care? Like if you wanna buy a combat ship so you can be a wolf for those first few weeks(?) and pwn noobs. Fine I guess. But who the fuck are these people buying farming ships or Info smuggling ships when there is zero sign those are going to be actual fun and functional game systems?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Kail on March 14, 2016, 02:38:09 PM
-All of those things need to be game systems somehow. Yet none of these rubes seem to care? Like if you wanna buy a combat ship so you can be a wolf for those first few weeks(?) and pwn noobs. Fine I guess. But who the fuck are these people buying farming ships or Info smuggling ships when there is zero sign those are going to be actual fun and functional game systems?

Yeah, that kind of stuck out to me, too, with the "LOL SPACE WEED" thing.  Like, is managing your character's hunger actually a thing in this game?  I haven't really heard much about that aspect so far.  Like it's Space DayZ or something?  Because a yes/no answer there would make farms either the most important strategic assets in the game or completely useless.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on March 14, 2016, 03:34:57 PM
Yes, there's a term for what Star Citizen is. It's called a con.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on March 14, 2016, 05:06:17 PM
Yes, there's a term for what Star Citizen is. It's called a con.

Con gives them too much credit. It's TV evangelism. If that's a word.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on March 14, 2016, 06:39:33 PM
Yes, there's a term for what Star Citizen is. It's called a con.

Con gives them too much credit. It's TV evangelism. If that's a word.

Hallelujah! (NSFW)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me2H7Ja93Wg


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on March 15, 2016, 03:57:45 AM
-All of those things need to be game systems somehow. Yet none of these rubes seem to care? Like if you wanna buy a combat ship so you can be a wolf for those first few weeks(?) and pwn noobs. Fine I guess. But who the fuck are these people buying farming ships or Info smuggling ships when there is zero sign those are going to be actual fun and functional game systems?

Yeah, that kind of stuck out to me, too, with the "LOL SPACE WEED" thing.  Like, is managing your character's hunger actually a thing in this game?  I haven't really heard much about that aspect so far.  Like it's Space DayZ or something?  Because a yes/no answer there would make farms either the most important strategic assets in the game or completely useless.

Remember that they have a drink mixing minigame and a mechanic where you have to replace burnt out entertainment systems on passenger ships. The whole concept of scope is an alien world to them.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on March 15, 2016, 05:28:09 AM
Yes, there's a term for what Star Citizen is. It's called a con.

Con gives them too much credit. It's TV evangelism. If that's a word.
Televangelism.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rattran on March 15, 2016, 09:27:51 AM
Yes, there's a term for what Star Citizen is. It's called a con.

Con gives them too much credit. It's TV evangelism. If that's a word.
Televangelism.
Alternately "Evil"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: squirrel on March 26, 2016, 11:43:26 PM
-All of those things need to be game systems somehow. Yet none of these rubes seem to care? Like if you wanna buy a combat ship so you can be a wolf for those first few weeks(?) and pwn noobs. Fine I guess. But who the fuck are these people buying farming ships or Info smuggling ships when there is zero sign those are going to be actual fun and functional game systems?

Yeah, that kind of stuck out to me, too, with the "LOL SPACE WEED" thing.  Like, is managing your character's hunger actually a thing in this game?  I haven't really heard much about that aspect so far.  Like it's Space DayZ or something?  Because a yes/no answer there would make farms either the most important strategic assets in the game or completely useless.

Remember that they have a drink mixing minigame and a mechanic where you have to replace burnt out entertainment systems on passenger ships. The whole concept of scope is an alien world to them.

I'd love to see the design doc on this thing, I mean how many systems are still to be even remotley tested? Mini games, economy, crafting, you know just the small shit. Who am I kidding, there's no design doc, there's no design. Just whatever the fuck Crobberts thinks is cool and got a yes/stretch goal. Of course what's cool has changed so everything gets redone constantly. The only thing that hasn't changed is the basic premise of spaceships in space with some snooty man bits. And what has the public seen so far? This thing is so fucked it's going to create its own lexicon in the industry. It's going to make Duke Nukem look like a project that had minor issues with pushing dates. It's awesome.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: UnSub on March 28, 2016, 08:07:36 AM
A big issue is how all those systems - assuming they actually get developed - actually fit together.

So, you can board a ship. Great. But is it actually workable? Is it too easy to do and then take control of a ship, making it overpowered, or too hard and not worth bothering with? If the rewards are better to just blow up a ship, then that's what will happen.

So while it's great that such systems exist, balancing has to occur to make it worthwhile or you end up with an unused mechanic that took time and effort to create.

And there will be quite a few people who'll say they pre-funded the game / bought the game because of whatever feature that was promised and then turned out to be a terrible idea.

Assuming that system actually makes it in-game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on March 28, 2016, 08:17:42 AM
This has always been the problem with the game. The real fanatics aren't treating it like a game, they are treating it like a VR simulation or something. We know games don't work that way, but stuff like bugs, clunky mechanics, etc. are going to be a problem here.  I don't know how much the farming ship cost people, but its going to be a rude awakening when someone does the math later, creates a spreadsheet, and finds out farming is actually just not an efficient way to play the game. So much for that $300 (or whatever) ship you bought, it sucks.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on March 28, 2016, 08:18:06 AM
The real question here is why hasn't Molyneux been brought on board?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on March 28, 2016, 08:35:42 AM
The real question here is why hasn't Molyneux been brought on board?

Because they need to keep the scope under control.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on March 28, 2016, 09:01:49 AM
at this point they could bring in molyneaux to tone the scope down


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Speedy Cerviche on March 28, 2016, 09:57:10 AM
This has always been the problem with the game. The real fanatics aren't treating it like a game, they are treating it like a VR simulation or something. We know games don't work that way, but stuff like bugs, clunky mechanics, etc. are going to be a problem here.  I don't know how much the farming ship cost people, but its going to be a rude awakening when someone does the math later, creates a spreadsheet, and finds out farming is actually just not an efficient way to play the game. So much for that $300 (or whatever) ship you bought, it sucks.

PvP in these type of games also comes down to efficiency. As long as there is some kind of skill factor in the game (it's not completely based on hard character power) People always find some kind of very stripped down but still very deadly character/equipment/ship design to inflict maximum damage with downside minimum risk. You had it in games like UO with naked mages, you had it in games like Eve with small newbie ships "tackling". All these people who spent big $ on fancy ships are inevitably going to be disappointed by their relative performance.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on March 28, 2016, 06:08:52 PM
Star Citizen Patch 2.3 First Impressions (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWeTw2DXfUE)

Looks like things are going well.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mithas on March 28, 2016, 06:32:28 PM
I watched all six minutes and forty-seven seconds. They are not doing themselves any favors by letting people play this.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on March 28, 2016, 08:24:47 PM
I watched all six minutes and forty-seven seconds.
Worth it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on March 28, 2016, 10:41:54 PM
Star Citizen Patch 2.3 First Impressions (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWeTw2DXfUE)

Looks like things are going well.  :why_so_serious:

I'm now looking forward to seeing Goat Simulator: Goats in Space.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ezrast on March 28, 2016, 11:32:01 PM
Dang, that guy gets way better performance than I did.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on March 29, 2016, 04:57:42 AM
In fairness, that's a nice looking catastrophe.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on March 29, 2016, 05:22:14 AM
So I almost think after watching that this isn't just in a simple sense a con--a cynical, self-knowing attempt to get people to give you something for nothing and to walk away smiling afterwards. There's certainly some aspect of it where the SC people are taking in money and burning it carelessly. But they also just seem to me, looking back, to be almost like helpless toddlers who are breathlessly telling a parent about all the cool things that they're imagining, "And there's a dinosaur! And he fights Batman! And then Batman grows machine arms! And two spaceships come to say hello to him! But then there's a volcano! Only of ice!"

It's like a game development process crossed with Axe Cop. When I see that video I think, "If these guys had had some discipline, and kept the focus manageable, they might have made a functioning game by now." The fact that they didn't has to do with their own immaturity and on the cynical side, with the fact that they got addicted to getting yet more wads of consequence-free money every time they promised a new feature. But I am almost tempted to slight sympathy the longer this goes on.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Bungee on March 29, 2016, 07:07:16 AM
I "designed" a Star Trek game on the ST:Armada forums back then. Something we thought a ST game should be like as 13 year olds. I think Chris found our Word docs and hired some more 13 year olds to come up with more of that awesomesauce.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on March 29, 2016, 07:54:20 AM
I "designed" a Star Trek game on the ST:Armada forums back then. Something we thought a ST game should be like as 13 year olds. I think Chris found our Word docs and hired some more 13 year olds to come up with more of that awesomesauce.

I played Star Trek: The Rebel Universe for the Atari ST and survived the experience. I'm sure your game couldn't be worse than that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on March 29, 2016, 02:03:59 PM
Reading the comments, the physics are like that because the game takes physics rules from a client side file. So everyone in a multiplayer session can have their own physics ruleset and the video is what results.

Amazing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MahrinSkel on March 29, 2016, 02:17:58 PM
Reading the comments, the physics are like that because the game takes physics rules from a client side file. So everyone in a multiplayer session can have their own physics ruleset and the video is what results.

Amazing.
Da fuq?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Kail on March 29, 2016, 02:22:49 PM
I'm not sure that's right (or at least, not the issue here, lots of people seem to be saying shit they don't understand as per the usual Youtube comments section)

The author's follow up video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLkgkJitE6c


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on March 29, 2016, 02:41:01 PM
All I really know is that this is great entertainment.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on March 29, 2016, 02:46:43 PM
Regardless of the degree, this is exactly the problem with these kinds of games that try to go too detailed at the moment. Physics are really hard to get right and if the expectation is "realistic" then you notice even all the little things that don't work quite right, let alone the big goofy stuff like the spaceship in that video.

Any one of the things they are trying to do is a whole game. Getting it to all interact in a way that makes any kind of sense seems very ambitious to me and entirely likely to fall apart, even if you assume total good faith in the development team.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: squirrel on March 29, 2016, 08:47:31 PM
Reading the comments, the physics are like that because the game takes physics rules from a client side file. So everyone in a multiplayer session can have their own physics ruleset and the video is what results.

Amazing.
Da fuq?

Nah that's just star Shitizen rationalization - their defence is the author fucked with local config files so the display he sees is crazy fucked up when in fact it's fine for other players. The author of that video - Peter Gabriel / Major Tom - posts frequently in the SA thread and debunked the .cfg theory, although in some ways that would be the even funnier explanation.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on March 30, 2016, 04:34:18 AM
What's even more awesome is the comments on that video, because the defenders seem to insinuate that it's not the game that's fucked, it's because physics are all client side and people are messing with their configuration files thus messing up the physics for everyone else.

No idea if it's true (don't care enough to research further) but if so that's pretty  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Bungee on March 30, 2016, 04:41:58 AM
What's even more awesome is the comments on that video, because the defenders seem to insinuate that it's not the game that's fucked, it's because physics are all client side and people are messing with their configuration files thus messing up the physics for everyone else.

No idea if it's true (don't care enough to research further) but if so that's pretty  :oh_i_see:

People need to read more.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on March 30, 2016, 06:36:28 AM
What's even more awesome is the comments on that video, because the defenders seem to insinuate that it's not the game that's fucked, it's because physics are all client side and people are messing with their configuration files thus messing up the physics for everyone else.

No idea if it's true (don't care enough to research further) but if so that's pretty  :oh_i_see:

People need to read more.

they'll end up reading dianetics


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on March 30, 2016, 05:14:30 PM
My bad, I missed the follow up video link


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on March 31, 2016, 05:00:33 AM
Chris Roberts is someone who has not been in the video game industry for 20 years. That's a long fucking time in this industry. He's an "idea guy" with super deep wallets, but how to actually build a game seems beyond him.

It's cool when you get a rare case like George Miller directing the new Mad Max - out of the game for a long time, comes back not missing a step. But in most cases when people haven't worked in 20 years there's a reason, and even if incompetence isn't the reason (it usually is) time will probably have passed them by.

As far as looking nice - video game artists are really fucking good at making things look pretty, especially if they don't have to worry much about performance, constraints, bugs, etc. This may be a broad generalization but the typical video game artist is much more competent than the typical programmer. Maybe that's because programming is harder (I dunno - I struggle to model an apple in blender so art seems hard to me!) but if you unleash professional video game artists they will almost always make something that looks good, whereas unleashed programmers will often create a mess.

This is why target renders and early vertical slices and such of games are so useless. A competent art team can produce a great looking vertical slice. They don't even have to be a great art team, just competent.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on March 31, 2016, 06:40:58 AM
The rise of game (and video digital effects) concepting has been bringing representative painting back into the forefront. It's amazingly awesome (as someone who favors representational art) to see something finally pushing back on modern art.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on March 31, 2016, 07:00:09 AM
George Miller was never out of the game. The biggest gap between engagements was 8 years between Babe 2 and Happy Feet which is actually not that much by Hollywood timeframes (especially considering the fact that he was 54 when he made Babe 2 and 61 when he made Happy feet). Miller was also always an exceptional producer and director that has been nominated for and won multiple awards. He's also generally well liked by studios, distributors, actors and staff and he delivers on time and on budget and his movies do exceptionally well at the box office.

TL;DR: He has nothing in common with Chris Roberts.

Chris Roberts is legendary for being a "pie in the sky" idea guy that doesn't deliver on time or on budget (or at all). Roberts management and production antics have been instrumental in the Death of Origin Systems. His people management skills are also legendarily bad. There's a reason no one wanted to work with Roberts ever again and the stories about his management style, character and business acumen are legion. They are also universally negative. If the topic comes to Roberts amongs industry people - on record - the reaction is almost always along the lines of "fuck that guy".



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on March 31, 2016, 07:18:34 AM
I'm still now just sort of wishing we got to see what someone who is not chris roberts could have done by now with the hundred mil. I'm still conspicuously jonesing for The Definitive Next Generation Space Sim and I guess I'm stuck in a timeline where we won't get it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on March 31, 2016, 07:21:54 AM
Programming is still hard. It also has suffered a lot because the business is now so art and design driven. Just look at staff lists or credits of any AAA title and chances are good that the ratio of content and asset creators to 'actual' system programmers heavily favors content creation.

You can also see it if you look at tool chains and their focus to make asset creation easier and faster for art people. A competent designer that knows Maya or Poser or any other modelling workflow can whip up something decent quickly. If that person doesn't need to be concerned about poly count, how well it animates, if graphics hardware can render it or indeed any facet of the design that has to consider real world technical limitations. That's what the system programming team is for, they have to make it work. The big promise of the current generation of frameworks is that you do not need to do much programming to make a game (except for scripting) and this is because their customer base is design and art focused.

There are reasons why so many recent games have been poorly optimized heaps of junk and some of them have to do with the business being so focused on art and assets and being driven by design and less resources being dedicated to making sure all of the beautiful art is actually coming together into a consistent game that can run on actual hardware.

Another reason would be the fact that you can earn much more money as a systems programmer in any other business besides gaming and so you have a lot of brain drain once junior programmers get burned out or decide to start a family and realize that they could earn significantly more money on a significantly lower workload in almost any other business.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on March 31, 2016, 07:32:53 AM
I think that the main issue of Star Citizen is lack of oversight and lack of a strong creative vision. It's the wet dream of every creative person I know to be free of the shackles of creative oversight and budgets and to be able to create something without being constrained by deadlines or money or the opinions of other people that ultimately pay your bills. It's also the responsibility of management and the art director to make sure that the project stays on track and on vision.

If they don't you have a nightmare scenario. Ultimately a lot of the work you do even on creative projects is boring but necessary and there's always something more interesting to do instead.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on March 31, 2016, 09:56:40 AM
Quote
Another reason would be the fact that you can earn much more money as a systems programmer in any other business besides gaming and so you have a lot of brain drain once junior programmers get burned out or decide to start a family and realize that they could earn significantly more money on a significantly lower workload in almost any other business.

Yeah they all go "hmm do i want to stay in the games industry? On one hand, I'll be subject to burnout-inducing crunch time, extreme market volatility, and uncertainty at all times about whether my studio will be up and running in a year will prevent me from being able to settle down someplace for real. But at the same time, I have to remember I'll get paid less. So there's that! Gotta keep the pros and cons in perspective."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on March 31, 2016, 12:33:29 PM
You can also see it if you look at tool chains and their focus to make asset creation easier and faster for art people. A competent designer that knows Maya or Poser or any other modelling workflow can whip up something decent quickly. If that person doesn't need to be concerned about poly count, how well it animates, if graphics hardware can render it or indeed any facet of the design that has to consider real world technical limitations. That's what the system programming team is for, they have to make it work. The big promise of the current generation of frameworks is that you do not need to do much programming to make a game (except for scripting) and this is because their customer base is design and art focused.

This is 100% correct. I recall being given a UE4 demo at E3 a few years ago and the technical artist who was running the demo had a pitch that was basically 'You can fire all of your programmers. Technical artists can now do everything in the engine that they need to make a game.'


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on March 31, 2016, 12:38:39 PM
I think that the main issue of Star Citizen is lack of oversight and lack of a strong creative vision. It's the wet dream of every creative person I know to be free of the shackles of creative oversight and budgets and to be able to create something without being constrained by deadlines or money or the opinions of other people that ultimately pay your bills. It's also the responsibility of management and the art director to make sure that the project stays on track and on vision.
So basically, Valve Syndrome.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on March 31, 2016, 12:44:51 PM
valve can syndrome themselves all they want on the steady hat revenue or whatever. it'd be different if they were making a new team fortress and selling individual classes for thousands of dollars.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on March 31, 2016, 12:45:56 PM
Yeah, Valve is pretty much a unique case.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on March 31, 2016, 12:52:38 PM
You can also see it if you look at tool chains and their focus to make asset creation easier and faster for art people. A competent designer that knows Maya or Poser or any other modelling workflow can whip up something decent quickly. If that person doesn't need to be concerned about poly count, how well it animates, if graphics hardware can render it or indeed any facet of the design that has to consider real world technical limitations. That's what the system programming team is for, they have to make it work. The big promise of the current generation of frameworks is that you do not need to do much programming to make a game (except for scripting) and this is because their customer base is design and art focused.

This is 100% correct. I recall being given a UE4 demo at E3 a few years ago and the technical artist who was running the demo had a pitch that was basically 'You can fire all of your programmers. Technical artists can now do everything in the engine that they need to make a game.'

I really hope you or someone around you dickpunched the cockholster that said this to you.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: KallDrexx on March 31, 2016, 03:19:43 PM
valve can syndrome themselves all they want on the steady hat revenue or whatever. it'd be different if they were making a new team fortress and selling individual classes for thousands of dollars.

I mean, Star Citizen can syndrome themselves all they want too since their preorder shinanigans seems to be giving them staggeringly stable revenue (sadly enough).  I just looked it up and they are still taking in about $2-3million per month. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on April 01, 2016, 07:58:30 AM
I don't think they have the same long-term stability. As time goes on, people's attitude towards star citizen is souring and then morphing into full-blown hatetrains like Something Awful's. They can't sit around and noodle away indefinitely like Valve, and the longer goes on without a functional and complete product, the more they court imploding and being a 2017 Kotaku-Hogan "what went wrong with star citizen: the greatest crowdfunding disaster" article.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on April 01, 2016, 03:41:40 PM
Valve has steam which is a legitimate business that works and generates revenue. They don't necessarily need to make Half Life 3 or any other game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: angry.bob on April 02, 2016, 10:15:10 AM
Valve has steam which is a legitimate business that works and generates revenue. They don't necessarily need to make Half Life 3 or any other game.

But they probably will anyway. And it will probably be another excellent game that embraces modding and has legs for a decade. People can criticize Valve all they want, but shitty, rushed, or unfun games are not any criticisms that are valid.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on April 02, 2016, 01:08:59 PM
TF2, despite being incredibly well liked and hugely popular seems to me to be, if anything, underappreciated in the gaming community. Looking back, Orange Box was probably the best gaming purchase I've ever made, and Portal was just sort of tacked on as this extra interesting thing in there.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on April 02, 2016, 03:11:12 PM
Yeah, Valve is pretty much a unique case.
It's unique in the sense they actually have money hats that allow them to fuck around without producing anything, and still survive. They are not unique in the sense this total artistic freedom and lack of management capable of giving a fuck about actually producing something results in dicking around but little of note, software-wise.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on April 02, 2016, 11:32:45 PM
Valve is basically a storefront management company now, that does some hardware and software stuff on the side.

To say that they don't produce much any more is true, but it's also not really their business, and hasn't been for some time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Kageru on April 03, 2016, 05:55:51 AM

People tend to forget that Valve is not actually that large a company, probably not that much bigger than RSI based on some quick googling, and financially I doubt their positions could be much more different.

Valve are not going to release half life 3 because there is more money and interest in online games..


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on April 03, 2016, 10:28:47 AM
Valve also has the luxury of not being compelled to puke out ietetations to keep the lights on. They can make what they want when they feel good and ready.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on May 04, 2016, 01:08:36 AM
Tell me if this, from 1:20 (https://youtu.be/ENkfuzeBdRE?t=82), isn't all that Star Citizen is trying pretending to be (it isn't, it's the new Call of Duty).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on May 04, 2016, 06:08:51 AM
I don't think Call of Duty has a sim bartender feature, so it's pretty much a waste of everyone's time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on May 04, 2016, 08:53:31 AM
It has been repeatedly said that all of the employees at Valve get to work on passion products and that's that. So Half-Life 3 will get done when: 1. A team wants to work on Half-Life 3 and 2. When a team capable of making Half-Life 3 gets together and just does it.

Star Citizen isn't a passion product. It's a con. These two companies should never be mentioned in the same thread.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on May 04, 2016, 12:35:38 PM
Tell me if this, from 1:20 (https://youtu.be/ENkfuzeBdRE?t=82), isn't all that Star Citizen is trying pretending to be (it isn't, it's the new Call of Duty).

I'm pretty sure Chris Roberts wouldn't waste his hooker money on some shitty nuMetal travesty cover of an iconic David Bowie song, so no.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Spiff on May 04, 2016, 11:39:35 PM
He'd probably launch a campaign to hire the best psychic medium money can buy.
Bowie performing live from beyond the grave, donate now!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Furiously on May 21, 2016, 09:03:07 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/cYTlQUb.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on May 24, 2016, 08:05:02 AM
is this out yet did it fail yet does it suck is there a first round of layoffs what's happening


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on May 24, 2016, 09:40:26 AM
You guys either scared the true believers off or they've mortgaged themselves so much they can't pay for internet anymore. No idea!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Nija on May 24, 2016, 11:30:49 AM
We've entered the silent denial stage.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on May 24, 2016, 02:33:23 PM
Clearly there's no info because the game launched and everyone is too busy playing it and having too much fun to post.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on May 24, 2016, 02:39:32 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/FRDckCL.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on May 24, 2016, 03:45:11 PM
Well someone had to make the effort of typing the name into google

Quote
Star Citizen" crowdfunding already reached more than $110 million. There are already 1.3 million people who invested for the "Star Citizen" PC version with over 300,000 new recruits.

The crowdfunding first started in October 2012 and right after launching of its kickstarter, the fund grew and reached its target of $540,000. Since then, the population of pledgers continued to increase as well as the fund itself, making it the most successful crowdfunding of all time, PC invasion reported.
Like Us on Facebook

The report mentioned that Cloud Imperium, developer of the said game, have used all of its development bases in the United States, United Kingdom and Germany for "Star Citizen." Cloud Imperium CEO Chris Roberts explained in his interview with BBC that although the continuous cash flow indicates a positive feedback from supporters, the total amount of money they are collecting from the crowdfunding is still uncertain, which makes it one of its pitfalls. He also assured that he has no intentions of pocketing the money because Cloud Imperium intends to create the best game possible.

Roberts also mentioned that despite the enormous amount of money received right now, there are still times games get cancelled and "pushed back." He further explained that it takes years for a game to be fully developed, and by the time the general public hears about a game, it is most likely been in development for quite some time already. Despite the large amount of money from the crowdfunding, Roberts also explained that this poses another difficulty because pledgers are given the opportunity to demand something for the game, and a variety of these is not healthy. He explained that a million game designers, despite their support, would mean each and every voice has a right to be heard.

As of the moment, there has still been no word yet coming from Cloud Imperium regarding the schedule of "Star Citizen" PC version release date. Previously, "Star Citizen" alpha version 2.2.2 was released for free last March 2016 with a few patches also released earlier this year.

Read more: http://en.yibada.com/articles/125497/20160522/star-citizen-pc-release-date-crowdfunding-reaches-more-110-million.htm#ixzz49cEuCPuN


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on May 24, 2016, 05:24:37 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTL4CBHTbvI

Spoiler: It's terrible. The video is worth watching (second half better than first) for comedy value


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on May 24, 2016, 08:50:02 PM
Holy shit, just the number of times dude's clipped through the ship was just LOLWORTHY.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on May 24, 2016, 09:47:54 PM
This video illustrates the problem of designing final environments before you have any systems working. FPS levels can go through hundreds of iterations to get just right.

The interior is a dimly-lit maze. And not in a fun Doom way either. It's all awkward corridors and weird angles. Buggy as shit, but even if it worked I'm not sure it would be any good.

The release of Overwatch underscores how pointless it's been to spend so much time and effort on the crappy FPS part of Star Citizen. Instead of offering something no other game offers they've spend tremendous resources on garbage that dozens of games do better.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on May 25, 2016, 01:23:07 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTL4CBHTbvI

Spoiler: It's terrible. The video is worth watching (second half better than first) for comedy value
Half of these dudes running around looking like they're pretending to hold invisible guns is so apt for this game :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: K9 on May 25, 2016, 03:41:06 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTL4CBHTbvI

Spoiler: It's terrible. The video is worth watching (second half better than first) for comedy value

Is the streamer roleplaying as Han Solo?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on May 25, 2016, 04:43:48 PM
At a guess he doing a space themed night and dressed up as Solo.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on June 01, 2016, 01:30:45 PM
It's gonna take just a little longer guys.

http://www.polygon.com/2016/5/30/11720714/what-to-expect-from-the-pc-gaming-show

Quote
CLOUD IMPERIUM GAMES

Last year, developer Chris Roberts promised to show up in person at the 2016 PC Gaming Show to talk about Star Citizen. However, Polygon has learned that Roberts will not be on hand. Cloud Imperium will not be participating in the PC Gaming Show despite agreeing several months ago to do so.

A representative for Cloud Imperium tells us that Roberts sent PC Gamer his regrets just a few weeks ago, saying that his schedule won't allow for a trip to Los Angeles. In fact, the studio is skipping E3 entirely.

Instead, the spokesperson tells us that Roberts will be devoting all his efforts to work on Squadron 42 at his studio in England. The rep added that the studio will have something to show at Gamescom in August.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on June 01, 2016, 03:50:33 PM
Quote
The rep added that the studio will have something to show at Gamescom in August.
Cannot wait, will that be new virtual pants or new virtual virtual spaceships?

(though likely pants either way)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Surlyboi on June 01, 2016, 07:04:31 PM
Virtual pants for virtual spaceships.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on June 01, 2016, 07:16:27 PM
Virtual pantships.


Real shitpants.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on June 02, 2016, 05:19:26 AM
In five years time, there's going to be a new Kickstarter for an amazing game designed by Chris Roberts, Serek Dmart, Will Wright, Peter Molyneux and Curt Schilling. It's going to be a procedurally-generated MMO where a universe gets simulated down to the sub-atomic level and you get to shape how the interaction of fundamental forces eventually cools and coalesces into galaxies, solar systems and planets. You shape the evolution of life over billions of years but you can also affect the lives of individual organisms on quintillions of planets across the universe. You can custom-design technologies for intelligent life and you will be able to operate any technology a species designs, whether it's a food processor, a pair of alien pants, or a ray gun. Eventually you will be able to train evolved individuals to build space programs (there will be minigames!) and the race to dominate the universe will begin. There will be starmaps and hyperlanes. But you will also be able to take on the role of the chef on board a large battleship and make improved food for the captain. On some worlds there might be magic and ancient creatures from another dimension that live in dungeons, which you will be able to beam down and investigate.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on June 02, 2016, 05:21:52 AM
The real selling point: It all plays out in real time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on June 02, 2016, 06:01:20 AM
I think that team would be hard-pressed to implement all the features even in real time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on June 02, 2016, 06:46:51 AM
(there will be minigames!)

Unbeliever! There will be FULLY-FLESHED AAA GAMES for everything that would be a 'mini-game' in a pedestrian game release. If you train a citizen to be a soda jerk, they will launch into a fully-featured soda entrepreneurial sim. They could then become mayor, they like the sound of that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on June 02, 2016, 08:45:18 AM
Soda?

http://store.steampowered.com/app/347720/


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on June 02, 2016, 09:12:03 AM
What the actual fuck?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on June 02, 2016, 10:08:44 AM
Soda?

http://store.steampowered.com/app/347720/

*scribbles in notepad*


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Soln on June 02, 2016, 10:19:55 AM
I guess then there is a market for:

fetapaults builder
crotchpheasants: catch em all
poopsocking the undying: a zombie MMORPG


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Surlyboi on June 02, 2016, 12:24:51 PM
No fetuspults. This is a space game.

Fetus Massdrivers.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on June 02, 2016, 12:40:22 PM
Soda?

http://store.steampowered.com/app/347720/
Quote
With Soda Drinker Pro, you don’t need to have a soda in hand to experience a soda in your mind.
:why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 15, 2016, 06:00:45 AM
Apparently one person went to the Attorney General of Los Angeles and got $2500 back that Roberts did not intend to refund. Nice. Cloud Imperium still claims they paid them back because they felt like it, not because they had to.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/07/14/star-citizen-refund/



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on July 15, 2016, 07:37:35 AM
Quote
we have determined that it is also in our interests to terminate his participation in our fundraising community. We are therefore agreeing to close complainant’s account permanently and we will issue a refund of his pledge promptly.”

"Fine, if you don't like my toys, then you can go home and play with your own toys. HUUMPH"

Apparently Cloud Imperium has the refund policies of a 7 year old.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on July 15, 2016, 09:33:40 AM
Their design document was written by a 7-year old, so why not their refund policies?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: K9 on July 15, 2016, 10:04:49 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/Im9EUu0.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on July 15, 2016, 10:50:06 AM
Holy shit. That's a lot of money on pixels. I wonder much delusion comes with a 38k price tag.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on July 15, 2016, 10:52:42 AM
Holy shit. That's a lot of money on pixels. I wonder much delusion comes with a 38k price tag.

Several oil drums full.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on July 15, 2016, 11:09:08 AM
He wasn't a weak-spirited crybaby for wanting his money back. He was weak for not believing in Star Citizen HARD ENOUGH to spend more. His devotion to Sparklemotion was weak.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on July 15, 2016, 11:11:27 AM
Spending 35k on a video game gives you the right to shit on people on reddit? I hope no one tells this guy you can shit on people on reddit for free.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on July 15, 2016, 11:20:27 AM
Spending 35k on a video game gives you the right to shit on people on reddit? I hope no one tells this guy you can shit on people on reddit for free.

Heh, that was one of your more clever burns lately.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: K9 on July 15, 2016, 02:19:40 PM
Holy shit. That's a lot of money on pixels. I wonder much delusion comes with a 38k price tag.

Some weird progeny of the sunk cost fallacy and stockholm syndrome I think


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on July 21, 2016, 04:53:47 AM
Guys. If you don't all wish Tinkerbell alive again, she dies.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on July 29, 2016, 09:59:13 AM
There's a new logo if it helps.

https://gfycat.com/DifferentHelplessBullfrog

edit: they also built a nice office for the players! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ2OuEzfAE4


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 29, 2016, 10:27:23 AM
I never seen a company less deserving of a studio space at all, let alone one with nice furniture and custom bits and bobs.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on July 29, 2016, 10:35:29 AM
I'll be happy when this thread ends with an indictment.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on July 29, 2016, 11:32:28 AM
These goddamn assholes built a fucking Star Trek door. You know that shit wasn't cheap.

EDIT: Jesus Christ. That video might as well have been Chris Roberts rubbing his sweaty balls in the face of every Kickstarter funder ever.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on July 29, 2016, 11:59:58 AM
Why the fuck are gaming companies so bad at wasting money?  Without fail, you keep seeing these sorts of videos, decade after decade.  Even the worst of the startups in Silicon Valley, trying to lure top talent man children with bouncy houses and blowjobs, don't waste money that flagrantly on such stupid shit (I'm sure somebody will counter me with some example of just that, but Jesus Christ).

Yet any game company that gets any amount of cash runs out the door to burn it as fast as they can.  It's really bad in this case because of how they got the money, but I guess we all expected this.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on July 29, 2016, 12:15:01 PM
Game developers don't understand business. Many of them never worked in a functioning business, they never wanted to, and that's why they became game developers so they wouldn't have to. The ones that got really successful did it by accident and then failed upwards because that seems to be how the gaming industry works.

Which means you get this kind of money burn.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on July 29, 2016, 01:35:47 PM
That's the best, most exact summation of the shit that is the Games Industry I've seen. Nice job.

Now do Marketing and how salespeople help fuck things up by helping each other out.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on July 29, 2016, 01:39:32 PM
But they are the primary source of bringing hot girls into the company, so we tend to give them a pass.   :why_so_serious:


Also, page 100 of Star Citizen thread. woooooo


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on July 29, 2016, 01:40:30 PM
One thing that pisses me off the most about that video (beside the obvious fucking waste) is how they spend gobs of money on shushing Star Trek doors, yet can't even be bothered to give their code monkeys fucking cube walls for any sort of personal space. Fuck you, open office plan philosophy. FUCK YOU SO HARD.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on July 29, 2016, 03:38:21 PM
I dunno, has anyone ever been involved in printing? Those wall murals must have cost as much as the damned doors.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on July 29, 2016, 03:45:39 PM
Yeah, when mentioning the money I saw being wasted, that was a big one.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on July 29, 2016, 06:59:12 PM
I gather the wall murals probably cost as much to put up as the shush doors but they won't cost nearly as much to maintain when some dipshit breaks one of those doors.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Fabricated on July 29, 2016, 07:59:44 PM
One thing that pisses me off the most about that video (beside the obvious fucking waste) is how they spend gobs of money on shushing Star Trek doors, yet can't even be bothered to give their code monkeys fucking cube walls for any sort of personal space. Fuck you, open office plan philosophy. FUCK YOU SO HARD.
Nah, open office philosophies are hilarious when evenly implemented.

They're going for this at the university where I work and it's being applied to everyone who works in new buildings or any place that receives major renovations to office space. So tenured professors and muckity mucks get these awful sliding glass door offices that they can't hide from students and underlings in and makes them look like they're on display in a 7-11, and anyone who isn't super important gets stuck in modern wallless cubicle hell where you can't hold a proper conversation despite the white noise generators placed in the office specifically to allow that.

It's glorious how much the most well-heeled and self-important faculty/staff hate it and how they can't do anything about it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on July 29, 2016, 08:48:26 PM
I absolutely despise open office plans. At least give me SOME semblance of personal space, even if it's frosted glass cubicle walls like we have in our offices now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Margalis on July 29, 2016, 09:04:14 PM
Game developers don't understand business.

Not understanding business (or, in the case of many smaller devs, just not caring) is a little different from what we're seeing with Star Citizen, which is Trump-style opulence.

They have a hundred million dollars to spend and they aren't on the hook for any of it, directly or indirectly. They understand business pretty well, it's the making a game part they don't get. The business of RSI is raising money, not making games.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on July 30, 2016, 06:24:08 AM
I gather the wall murals probably cost as much to put up as the shush doors but they won't cost nearly as much to maintain when some dipshit breaks one of those doors.  :why_so_serious:

I disagree.  There's a reason walls are white (or some soft color) at work: cause it's easy to paint over all the smudges and marks that people leave on them.  They have to do it on a monthly schedule where I work (granted, we're a laboratory, not a dev house, but people are in a hurry and they bump into or slide against the walls).

The shush doors may not meet OSHA fire safety or power outage standards.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on July 30, 2016, 08:50:28 AM
RSI is a Potemkin village, and those need to look opulent in order to satisfy the Empress possible donors marks.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on July 31, 2016, 04:27:02 PM
That's the best, most exact summation of the shit that is the Games Industry I've seen. Nice job.

Now do Marketing and how salespeople help fuck things up by helping each other out.

Marketing people just confuse me. They consider people looking at their stuff a success, even if people are annoying or repulsed by it. Frankly, I think they are possessed by some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy where the only way they can fail is if they are ignored while screaming in your living room.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on July 31, 2016, 05:45:09 PM
I see a lot of people in marketing who have no background in it and then focus on either doing things the way those around them do it, or just on the communications/PR part of marketing.

They're also treated like second class citizens in this industry, so it's not surprising the best and the brightest of them either don't last very long or don't come at all. It's a lot more fulfilling to be in marketing in a CPG industry, or insurance.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on August 01, 2016, 06:20:59 AM
That's the best, most exact summation of the shit that is the Games Industry I've seen. Nice job.

Now do Marketing and how salespeople help fuck things up by helping each other out.

Marketing people just confuse me. They consider people looking at their stuff a success, even if people are annoying or repulsed by it. Frankly, I think they are possessed by some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy where the only way they can fail is if they are ignored while screaming in your living room.

I'm trained as an engineer but I'm in sales and marketing. Getting people to look at your stuff is the hardest thing to do. That's 80% of the battle. What makes you good at your job is make sure they aren't repulsed.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MahrinSkel on August 01, 2016, 06:55:03 AM
And here I am, getting a Marketing degree because I think it will make me a better game designer. :oh_i_see:  :grin:

--Dave


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on August 01, 2016, 07:13:18 AM
And now you'll be able to spout out things like grand strategy and internet 3.0.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on August 01, 2016, 10:02:49 AM
Getting people to look at your stuff is the hardest thing to do. That's 80% of the battle.

This. Marketing is all about convincing people that YOUR SHIT is worth their money and that is a lot harder of a thing than you think.

With that said, marketing people are either really vapid, soulless twats with a certain sick cunning or they are earnest people who unfortunately exist to part people with their money.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MahrinSkel on August 01, 2016, 10:51:26 AM
I actually learned something in my MKT 201 class that seemed kind of interesting. In Biz School, "Product Design" is the process of identifying a market (defined by their demographics, usually) and then figuring out how to present or adapt a product so they will buy it.

Now, this makes perfect sense when you're a toothpaste company and you're trying to find ways to sell more toothpaste. But it also explains quite a lot about why the suits have never had any respect for "design" the way that games people define it, and why some of the more...puzzling business decisions have been made the way they were.

--Dave


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on August 01, 2016, 11:15:45 AM
I actually learned something in my MKT 201 class that seemed kind of interesting. In Biz School, "Product Design" is the process of identifying a market (defined by their demographics, usually) and then figuring out how to present or adapt a product so they will buy it.

Now, this makes perfect sense when you're a toothpaste company and you're trying to find ways to sell more toothpaste. But it also explains quite a lot about why the suits have never had any respect for "design" the way that games people define it, and why some of the more...puzzling business decisions have been made the way they were.

--Dave

It's the same way in the industrial manufacturing space as well.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on August 01, 2016, 11:32:50 AM
Mt Dew and Cheetos is all you need to know. Surely.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on August 01, 2016, 01:39:47 PM
Mt Dew and Cheetos is all you need to know. Surely.

Throwback Mt. Dew with real sugar is fucking delicious. I know I've said it before but it needs repeating.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MahrinSkel on August 01, 2016, 02:46:14 PM
It's the same way in the industrial manufacturing space as well.
Yes, but in that kind of situation they shift to 'demand assessment' surveys, instead of asking 'what would make people in XYZ demo buy this kind of product?', they go out and ask questions about what kind of needs the buyer has, and what factors might influence their choice (if you make shelves, you find out if they want tougher shelves, or shelves that slide out, or shelves that can be adjusted, etc.) and then you go back to the engineers and ask them to come up with a product that ticks those boxes (hence "product design" being a business side process).

But since our marketing people often have not the slightest clue about games, or gamers, they don't ask the right questions, or understand the answers. And then the stuff they hand off to the actual developers is just gibberish that gets ignored.

--Dave

Edit: The literally textbook example of marketing not understanding the product is the Walkman: Sony's marketing people went out and asked people who bought recording equipment if they wanted to buy a portable cassette tape machine that couldn't record, offering various price points. They came back and said that nobody wanted the device at any price.

Of course, the question they should have been asking is "Would you like to be able to listen to your music whenever you want, like you can with your home stereo, but anywhere, while walking around, and without disturbing others?

Portable music had been limited to big "boom boxes" or to radios that had lousy reception and sound quality. The marketers were trying to assess a product they hadn't seen and didn't understand. So they didn't ask the right questions, or understand why the answers were useless (not even 'wrong').


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on August 01, 2016, 02:48:27 PM
Marketing for games is essentially "What else has sold in this very well-defined and pigeonholed genre? What can we do to copy that?"

That's about it. Marketers are also lazy fucks and the it's so much easier to build a campaign around "it's like X but different" without of course saying what X is.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on August 01, 2016, 03:58:35 PM
you have to step it up a notch. you can't just chug dew and doritos like a pleb, you have to find the right kinds.

(http://i.imgur.com/EJ7VIxM.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/jLzOj1l.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on August 01, 2016, 05:47:26 PM
Marketing for games is essentially "What else has sold in this very well-defined and pigeonholed genre? What can we do to copy that?"

That's about it. Marketers are also lazy fucks and the it's so much easier to build a campaign around "it's like X but different" without of course saying what X is.

Mahrin's already gone through the process of learning Marketing as it was for a long while, a byproduct of CinC hiearchical management where companies defined what consumers could have and then convinced them to want it. "We make X widgets for Y customers, so as long as Y is willing to pay Z for X forever more, we're all good".

But the walkman case study is a good example of the pivot. Instead of talking about utility, you talk about need state.

Trouble is, for a while, the core video game industry has been more like the CinC model than the modern one. Nobody asks "do you need to shoot virtual people for shits and giggles"? They all said "well, we have this optimized development pipeline or know some shills willing to work for peanuts, so we'll hawk the hell out of it and see what we get".

What's upended all that is the direct connection to consumers. Old style marketing had layers of obfuscation between developers and end users. You can handwave a whole mess of shit when you're only listening through three layers of interpretation from store managers who "lose" customer feedback surveys to focus groups stocked with focus group takers rather than real people.

But nowadays, between Steam, mobile apps, and Netflix, there isn't a thing successful companies can do that don't immediately give them real consumer feedback they can't ignore to their detriment. Today's example is Pokemon Go. But for us here, this goes back to MUDs.

This has upended a bunch of shit. There's nothing really wrong with the concepts like Five Forces or 4Ps/8Cs. It's just that so much of them are taught from the standpoint of starting from zero, following the prescribed 12 step program, and analyzing the results, all over a multi year period, and all while under the cloak of a trade secret that only becomes public when you apply for a patent right before release. This is all wildly unrealistic. Nothing ever EVER starts from nothing. Everything done is a step after something already done.

Further, modern companies are realtime. You launch 40% complete and iterate the shit out of it based on what the customers tell you. And that's been moving to the physical world too. Supply chains are optimzing around way many more companies doing way fewer things, for maximum adaptabillity. We're a long way from Henry Ford's river Rouge wherein one side went raw material and the other finished good.

So, realtime delivery, realtime analysis, realtime customer engagement, realtime decision making. Not your father's MBA :-)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Megrim on August 01, 2016, 06:58:36 PM
you have to step it up a notch. you can't just chug dew and doritos like a pleb, you have to find the right kinds.

'visual cancer'


oh for fuck sakes


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on August 01, 2016, 07:02:05 PM
I imagine they are the fattening products of choice for those who were those awesome Affliction t-shirts.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on August 02, 2016, 06:33:39 AM
Mahrin's already gone through the process of learning Marketing as it was for a long while, a byproduct of CinC hiearchical management where companies defined what consumers could have and then convinced them to want it. "We make X widgets for Y customers, so as long as Y is willing to pay Z for X forever more, we're all good".

But the walkman case study is a good example of the pivot. Instead of talking about utility, you talk about need state.

Trouble is, for a while, the core video game industry has been more like the CinC model than the modern one. Nobody asks "do you need to shoot virtual people for shits and giggles"? They all said "well, we have this optimized development pipeline or know some shills willing to work for peanuts, so we'll hawk the hell out of it and see what we get".

The walk man is not the best example, because it is a very clearly defined product with an obvious use case that you can clearly communicate. "Listen to Music on the go". The need part was "just" convincing you that you'd want to listen to music on the go and I'd reckon that this had to be rather easy considering that you already had boom boxes and other portable stereos. You could clearly define the "utility" of the walk man as well since it was much more portable than the typical "Ghetto Blaster".

A better example would be the mobile phone business prior to the iPhone. The whole market was so horribly horizontally segmented that you could literally buy hundreds of different phones that each failed to meet one particular need you'd have. Nokia being the most egregious example. The whole market was structured to address abstract "needs" of "target audiences" and was tiered into "price points" that had to meet certain "feature sets". At the height Nokia released 15 new devices per quarter that had been entirely designed by commitee to cater to a virtual market segment that only existed in the mind of the marketing department.

A simple product pitch was all that was needed to topple a whole industry business sector. It's a phone, it's a web browser and it's an iPod. The rest of the keynote was just so that they could "prove" that the device could actually do all of this and that it wasn't another case of marketing bullshit. Sacrilege for a Business that only thought in "price tiers" and thought that a "$600 market" for phones didn't exist as if the price was the only redeeming feature. Ironically people had basically been begging Nokia to release a phone like the iPhone for years but Nokia was incabable of listening to their audience because they were so caught up in their own market research and product marketing bullshit that they wouldn't or couldn't listen to a Need that was so significant that it completely levelled an industry once companies started to cater to it.

There are a lot of parallels to how companies like EA or Activision approach their product development and marketing and why entire segments of people feel disenfranchised. Also why companies are constantly surprised by sleeper hits and (re)-emerging trends that their marketing department insisted would not be viable because of some bullshit market research reasons.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on August 02, 2016, 07:56:02 AM
That Nokia description sounds exactly like the kind of thinking that led to the N-Gage.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MahrinSkel on August 02, 2016, 08:34:12 AM
Like a lot of the apocrypha that gets passed around Biz School, the Sony thing probably didn't actually happen, or at least not the way the story is told. I'm not going to defend the honor of the Marketing profession, my reasons for choosing it as a major are primarily mercenary: I won't have to explain how it was applicable, and it wouldn't require slogging through a bunch of courses where I wasn't learning anything (or worse, knew more than the professor).

Jeff's examples show much better what happens when you let Marketing drive the bus in a technical industry. I think there are things that the technical/creative side has to learn from the business/marketing side, and waiting for the biz side to learn something about what they are selling is both taking too long, and how you get abominations like Zynga and Kingsoft.

--Dave


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on August 02, 2016, 08:40:44 AM
Totally.

There exist a lot of very great post mortems by Ex-Nokia employees that detail exactly how Nokia basically doomed itself simply because of product development that was entirely marketing driven, targeted at non-existing market researched audiences and priced towards market researched price tiers. Completely ignoring both what was technologically possible and what people actually wanted. Basically because Nokia's customers at that point weren't actually the phone users but the network operators.

In 2007 Nokias flagship phone - the N95 - was more expensive ($795 w.o. contract) by nearly two hundred dollars than the original iPhone ($599) yet it was generations behind on almost every level.

AAA gaming right now is at the same point the mobile phone market was ten years ago. Risk averse, marketing driven to a fault. Rely more on market research and audience tests than actual product design and whish that the audience wasn't as fickle and instead just bought the next small Iteration of their tried and true product. That's why hucksters like Chris Roberst can exists. They pretend to listen to their audience and pretend to fill a void left over by the big Studios that listen more to their own highly paid marketing departments.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: apocrypha on August 02, 2016, 11:09:58 AM
Like a lot of the apocrypha that gets passed around Biz School

Triggered.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on August 02, 2016, 03:12:38 PM
Totally.

There exist a lot of very great post mortems by Ex-Nokia employees that detail exactly how Nokia basically doomed itself simply because of product development that was entirely marketing driven, targeted at non-existing market researched audiences and priced towards market researched price tiers. Completely ignoring both what was technologically possible and what people actually wanted. Basically because Nokia's customers at that point weren't actually the phone users but the network operators.

In 2007 Nokias flagship phone - the N95 - was more expensive ($795 w.o. contract) by nearly two hundred dollars than the original iPhone ($599) yet it was generations behind on almost every level.

damn, can i read some of these you think are the best


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: apocrypha on August 20, 2016, 01:24:08 AM
PCGamer jumps from hype train to hype train without the slightest trace of irony:

http://www.pcgamer.com/star-citizen-30s-planetary-landing-blows-no-mans-sky-away/


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on August 20, 2016, 04:11:13 AM
Although, it must be said, yesterday's presentation at Gamescom was pretty good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GucYhhLwIxg (for some reason it starts at the 12 minute mark when I click on it. Oh well, just rewind it)

Another thing that needs to be said, is that all of it was probably run on monster computers and in a "controlled" environment of 3-4 players and on a totally different dev branch (that's not uncommon when it comes to previews, anyway), but hey, it definitely garnered some positive attention after the stalemate of the last few months.

This is what should come out by the end of the year/beginning of the next:


Only 99 systems to go after Stanton!!!  :drill: :why_so_serious:

And in October they should show some more Squadron 42-related stuff (another thing that should come out by the end of 2016....right :D)
-------------------
EDIT: changed the YT link.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on August 20, 2016, 05:07:41 AM
No Man's Sky had lots of awesome videos when they were in a controlled environment too. :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Severian on September 05, 2016, 05:50:36 AM
And in October they should show some more Squadron 42-related stuff (another thing that should come out by the end of 2016....right :D)
 
Star Citizen's Squadron 42 release slips into 2017

Speaking to German magazine GameStar (http://www.gamestar.de/videos/klartext-zu-star-citizen-wird-star-citizen-ein-gutes-spiel,90156.html), Chris Roberts has said that the single-player component of Star Citizen, Squadron 42, will be more likely to arrive near the middle or end of 2017 than its current Q42016 window 

- http://www.pcgamesn.com/star-citizen/squadron-42-release-date


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on September 05, 2016, 08:05:20 AM
One might think it bad, but a year's delay literally nets them millions.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on September 05, 2016, 12:49:42 PM

The walk man is not the best example, because it is a very clearly defined product with an obvious use case that you can clearly communicate. "Listen to Music on the go". The need part was "just" convincing you that you'd want to listen to music on the go and I'd reckon that this had to be rather easy considering that you already had boom boxes and other portable stereos. You could clearly define the "utility" of the walk man as well since it was much more portable than the typical "Ghetto Blaster".

A better example would be the mobile phone business prior to the iPhone.
[/quote]

The reason the Walkman works is for the same reason the iPhone does: the sell.

Both devices for their time were ridiculously complicated technologies and business arrangements that needed to come together just right in order to function at all. But what separated them was how the emphasis was placed on the use case and, more importantly, the message used to sell them.

The iPhone is built on 10 years of tech where each year just needed their ardent consumers to adopt one more thing. It's "just" a phone atop the music and video player you already are locked into, which themselves were previously "just" video added to your audio-only player. The app store came later, but itself was built atop the proven desire by consumers to want to do more things on their phones rather than just their desktops and laptops.

All of this was because the iPhone was built for users while all the feature phones and smartphones prior to it were built for carriers. It's like Tivo vs cable boxes. The target customer is completely different, so everything from the design to the engineering compromises to the business relationships to the marketing mix and messaging are going to be different.

Designing for your end user is not easy, because it's your customers that get that device to the user. They have a big say. Unless, well, you also own the retail channel too.

How this ties back to video games has already been discussed. But I will add: the more expensive and complicated stuff becomes, the more people need to be involved in how to allocate the resources. With startup funding drying up and the global economy stagnating, marketing people are using their training in predictability so companies can make safer bets.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on September 23, 2016, 08:06:47 AM
:dead_horse:Inside the Troubled Development of Star Citizen (http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/09/23/inside-the-troubled-development-of-star-citizen).
edit: I also thought that the article is good and worth the read despite the length.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on September 23, 2016, 08:52:35 AM
This is actually a very well written and balanced article, hearing both sides of the story. Great read.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: apocrypha on September 23, 2016, 09:39:29 AM
Yeah, very interesting. Basically saying there were (so far) three main mistakes; using a pre-existing engine rather than building a new one, splitting the development teams up between multiple sites and continuing to take money and promise ever more ridiculous stretch goals.

The first two are solvable and actually sound like they largely have been already according to that article, but the overscope is the one that will kill it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on September 23, 2016, 10:20:23 AM
Which is what we've all been saying from the beginning. There isn't a feature anyone has ever mentioned that they don't at least claim will eventually go into the game. How do you build something that way? You can't.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on September 23, 2016, 10:23:06 AM
I think the article sums up the 2 (biggest) problems with SC: the scale of the project ballooning uncontrollably and Roberts' way of leading.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on September 23, 2016, 11:10:51 AM
I think the 'problem' with his leading is a perceptual issue, since in several places he points out that people are so focused on their pre-conceived notions of 'we can't do that' and then 'waste' four months and then, well, they did it. I see that all the time in the library world, where the minority of people with 'leadership' issues are the ones pushing to do something better than ordinary. You might not always hit it, but it's important to strive for that and not give up because you think it's difficult or impossible. And if people keep getting in the way of things, then you fire them.

Honestly, the article gave me a lot of respect for how they've developed their corporate structure and culture. Most folks can't work in that kind of environment, and there's no reason to keep them around once they've shown that. From what I've seen of the utter joke of game development corporate culture, it's the first company I've read about that I wouldn't mind working for.

Still not sure if it delivers a good game or not, but it does lay out those basic issues of feature creep, engine rebuilding and initial corporate structure.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on September 23, 2016, 11:36:22 AM
I like that the journalist (because, for once, this was actually a nice piece of journalism, IMO) basically asked Roberts to directly answer to some statements made by various sources. Even the most troublesome ones.

Yeah, he comes across as pretty stubborn (to say the least, but we already guessed that), with micromanagement issues and just straight impossible to work with in certain situations whereas you would expect more flexibility but, like I wrote in a previous message in this thread, if we put this in perspective I guess it's a common story you would hear both at successful and unsuccessful work places (emphasis on successful too).

When it comes to "anonymous sources", for once I like the fact we're hearing both sides of the story and not just a "poor, poor employee  that was absolutely right and now safe from that hellish place", but also the perspective of trying to build a company with huge ramifications, which comes, as we can read in the article, with backtracking, failures, false start, restarts, personal issues  and everything else.

During the last few months they have been giving me the impression that  they indeed managed to somewhat streamline the entire thing with a lot more agile development (from ships to characters to locations), while still struggling with the engine (especially the netcode, although it seems they're spearheading that too, now). Now it remains to be seen if there's enough money left to complete the whole thing. Yeah, just a tiny little detail, that is  :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on September 23, 2016, 12:05:02 PM
I can tell from that article (and yes, it's proper journalism, no blowjobs included) that I absolutely would never want to work with Chris Roberts. I've dealt with "visionaries" like that before and there's a huge difference between confidence in one's ideas and arrogant, zealous belief that one's ideas are always fucking right. He sounded a lot like the second one.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Torinak on September 23, 2016, 03:32:21 PM
I can tell from that article (and yes, it's proper journalism, no blowjobs included) that I absolutely would never want to work with Chris Roberts. I've dealt with "visionaries" like that before and there's a huge difference between confidence in one's ideas and arrogant, zealous belief that one's ideas are always fucking right. He sounded a lot like the second one.

I've worked with that before. If everything went flawlessly, he was praised for his "vision". Whenever anything went wrong, it was that someone else had failed his "vision" and should be punished.

Thankfully, that was at a company whose general culture encouraged trying crazy stuff but also required the crazy stuff to prove itself pretty quickly. The pure "visionary" didn't last too long. There were a fair number of others with grand ideas who could be intensely passionate but could tell when it was time to abandon something.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on September 23, 2016, 07:09:43 PM
I can tell from that article (and yes, it's proper journalism, no blowjobs included) that I absolutely would never want to work with Chris Roberts. I've dealt with "visionaries" like that before and there's a huge difference between confidence in one's ideas and arrogant, zealous belief that one's ideas are always fucking right. He sounded a lot like the second one.

I dismissed the entire article because their source still has hope. When hope exists, so does the dream. When the dream exists, we're not getting a perfect picture of reality.

To wit:
Quote
“If Star Citizen does end up hitting the goals that Roberts has planned (by beating his horses to death to get to the finish line), there is no doubt in my mind it will be amazing.” - CIG source


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on September 23, 2016, 08:01:15 PM
If I hit lottery, it'd be amazing too.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on October 09, 2016, 07:22:49 AM
Well, another imaginary spaceship has been announced.  It looks like people are finally balking and walking away from this.


Oh wait no, just kidding. They made another 1.4M overnight:

(http://i.imgur.com/sf7gA8d.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on October 09, 2016, 07:35:11 AM
 :ye_gods:

Is there anything new to report with this Nightmare?  This latest post makes me realize I haven't seen anything reported about it in months. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: K9 on October 09, 2016, 12:59:57 PM
The amount of backslapping going on in the Star Citizen subreddit over how much money they've all just shovelled into this black hole of a game is frankly terrifying


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Kail on October 09, 2016, 01:22:28 PM

I still think it's hilarious that back when everyone was hating on No Man's Sky, there were people seriously saying "this is a total failure of communication, there are ways of doing crowdfunded games that manage their backers expectations well, look at Star Citizen for example."

I just keep seeing this in my head:
(http://www.kerao.net/external/bart-vs-hamster-o.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Lucas on October 09, 2016, 01:30:18 PM
Hello Infidels,

Tonight is CitizenCon night (well, umm, night for me, yeah), streaming live from LA on https://www.twitch.tv/starcitizen at 3pm PDT (1h30m away as I write this).

It will be glorious. May Roberts be with you, always.

See you there.
----------
(on a more "serious" note, it should be mainly focused on Squadron 42 and maybe give out more details about the GodAlphaPatch 3.0 coming within year's end).



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on October 09, 2016, 03:43:31 PM
I've worked with that before. If everything went flawlessly, he was praised for his "vision". Whenever anything went wrong, it was that someone else had failed his "vision" and should be punished.

This, all the way. Visionaries often aren't blamed for unworkable ideas. Generally it's the teams that couldn't get their act together.

However, often that's ok too as long as everyone gets paid. Sure, the players and backers want to see something launched that can be played and generate money. But the career of a visionary is to move to leading that next vision, and the career of the developer is to go off and develop something else in their skillset.

Of course, visionaries eventually need to have a success if they want to secure funding.

But my take away from article is simpler: Star Citizen is trying to boil the ocean. Key quote:

“You can solve those problems one at a time, but when everyone is trying to solve all the problems all at the same time, you're going to do nothing but waste money and come across huge technical limitations that you're going to need more hands on to solve. The problems were inherent from the beginning. It's just not a wise decision to attempt everything at once.”

I've been on initiatives like that before. Best you can do is get what you can from your own contribution (a network, new skills, whatever) and get out as soon as possible after. Your specific career skill probably does not require the successful launch of the likely pipe dream, while your own financial commitments like rent, food, etc. can be really screwed up if the dream isn't successful enough to keep paying you (like the folks they got from Crytek).

Don't drink the kool-aid.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Venkman on October 09, 2016, 04:19:13 PM
Another point to be made on budget.

Big huge crowd funding success sure. But not nearly enough to do all the things they want the right way, not when games with 1/4 of the scope cost twice as much, before the marketing budget is added.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 10, 2016, 01:22:32 PM
Oh hey there's a delay.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/star-citizen-s-single-player-campaign-will-miss-2016-launch-date/0173645


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on October 10, 2016, 03:03:57 PM
This ride never ends.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Shannow on October 10, 2016, 05:55:59 PM
Wait now they have Dune sandworms?

holy fucking feature creep.

pardon me while I laugh maniacally at the fanboys.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 11, 2016, 09:59:39 AM
I had somehow managed to remove from my mind the fact that Chris Roberts tried this exact same game in the form of Freelancer, and he failed in exactly the same way of making grandiose promises and setting impossible schedules. My mind is now somewhat blown.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on October 11, 2016, 10:47:08 AM
holy fucking feature creep.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85916/creepingfeature.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 11, 2016, 01:33:08 PM
Feature creep is way too tame a term. I give you Chris Roberts' Dune Wars the MMOFPS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdCFTF8j7yI&feature=youtu.be


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Torinak on October 11, 2016, 02:36:55 PM
Feature creep is way too tame a term. I give you Chris Roberts' Dune Wars the MMOFPS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdCFTF8j7yI&feature=youtu.be

If you're already working on drink-mixing as a full-fledged game system, is it really that much farther to tack on everything that NMS was supposed to be?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: K9 on October 11, 2016, 02:52:34 PM
I had somehow managed to remove from my mind the fact that Chris Roberts tried this exact same game in the form of Freelancer, and he failed in exactly the same way of making grandiose promises and setting impossible schedules. My mind is now somewhat blown.



To be fair, Freelancer was still a really fun game


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on October 11, 2016, 02:58:10 PM
I had somehow managed to remove from my mind the fact that Chris Roberts tried this exact same game in the form of Freelancer, and he failed in exactly the same way of making grandiose promises and setting impossible schedules. My mind is now somewhat blown.



To be fair, Freelancer was still a really fun game

Which only got completed because MS bought it and Roberts left/was given the boot.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Father mike on October 11, 2016, 03:02:46 PM
I may be completely mis-remembering, but didn't Digital Anvil go tits-up in the middle of Freelancer and have to be rescued by Microsoft?  Whereupon MS cut a bunch of features and shoved it out the door in a kind-of-playable state.

Faux edit: Velorath beat me to it


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on October 12, 2016, 12:52:20 AM
They not only did Freelancer but also Starlancer in a sort of "whole Universe" sort of way. Both got shoved out the door once DA went tits up/got bought out by MS


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: K9 on October 12, 2016, 02:23:21 AM
I had somehow managed to remove from my mind the fact that Chris Roberts tried this exact same game in the form of Freelancer, and he failed in exactly the same way of making grandiose promises and setting impossible schedules. My mind is now somewhat blown.



To be fair, Freelancer was still a really fun game

Which only got completed because MS bought it and Roberts left/was given the boot.

Ah, I had no idea.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on October 13, 2016, 03:16:34 AM
The only link left to Starlancer was a reference to the War in the opening cinematic. The altered it so that Freelancer too place thousands of years in the future in a galaxy far far away.

Apparently similar shit happened with the Wing commander movie. The studio lost patience with Roberts constant fiddling and delays and basically yanked their money and told him to push out what they had with the money they had already given him Which is why the movie is some utterly spectacular special effects twinned with dog awful live action sequences, becasue they didn't have the eime or money to make a decent story out of the preproduction stuff they had already rendered.

Chris also insisted they do NOT use the Kilrathi puppets they had used in WC 3 and 4, but wasted so much time faffing about on what he wanted to use that all they could cobble together when the studio told them to crunch was some space suits with claws and glowing eyes glued to the inside of the helmet.

Of course, Chris Roberts blamed the studio for forcing him to make a substandard movie by puling the plug. Makes me wonder who had his balls in a vice when he made the Wing commander games.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 13, 2016, 09:21:21 AM
there was so much of the game universe's structure in Freelancer that was built up and then never even seen in the game campaign. All the foundation of an incredibly elaborate and expansive world just sits and lurks at the end of the game.

Interestingly, it's the most fun and interesting part of the game to this day. You finish the campaign, and then you go on a safari to go see the far-off corners of the galaxy. You even can discover the fate of the sleeper ship Hispania, which is the most interesting hidden lore in any game for a decade.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Brolan on October 13, 2016, 11:28:03 AM
After all this time and money is there any part of the game you can currently play?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on October 13, 2016, 11:32:26 AM
Yes. A largish pvp area with some missiony things. I don't remember how many concurrent users can join at once. There is also the dog fight thingy, I think they call it arena commander or something.

The downloads are so large and they patch so often, I haven't bothered updating it in a while. At one time I think I downloaded like 200 gigs within the space of a week through the launcher.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on October 14, 2016, 05:32:07 AM
there was so much of the game universe's structure in Freelancer that was built up and then never even seen in the game campaign. All the foundation of an incredibly elaborate and expansive world just sits and lurks at the end of the game.

Interestingly, it's the most fun and interesting part of the game to this day. You finish the campaign, and then you go on a safari to go see the far-off corners of the galaxy. You even can discover the fate of the sleeper ship Hispania, which is the most interesting hidden lore in any game for a decade.

Huh. I just stopped playing at the end of the campaign. Almost makes me want to dig it out and play it again just to see that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Father mike on October 14, 2016, 09:18:44 AM
It did have some cool features like that.  Once you finished the game, you also could go and hunt down a set of legendary weapons.  Well, about 10% above the top tier of store-bought weapons, but with unique names!

It also had (?still has?) a modding community that was insane in a sort of fabulous way. 
Babylon 5 total conversion?  There were like 3 different competing ones.  :drill: 
X-wings vs colonial Vipers?  You're covered.

I'm having a hard time finding anything now, but back in the day, its modding scene was huge.  Lancer's Reactor was the go-to site, but I suspect most of the hosting sites closed years ago. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 14, 2016, 04:09:42 PM
there was so much of the game universe's structure in Freelancer that was built up and then never even seen in the game campaign. All the foundation of an incredibly elaborate and expansive world just sits and lurks at the end of the game.

Interestingly, it's the most fun and interesting part of the game to this day. You finish the campaign, and then you go on a safari to go see the far-off corners of the galaxy. You even can discover the fate of the sleeper ship Hispania, which is the most interesting hidden lore in any game for a decade.

Huh. I just stopped playing at the end of the campaign. Almost makes me want to dig it out and play it again just to see that.

Yeah, when the campaign ends you have an Order ship and about half of the universe really seen, and from there you can start upgrading to Rheinland ships and then to Superheavy Fighters, most notably those of the border worlds factions. You start traveling to semi-occupied farspace, to places like the nebulas, to perpetual war zones between the Corsairs and the Red Hessians, to diamond mines barely shielded from a violently dying star, to really far-out Zoner bases near a nebula of creepy spaceborne bio-organic material, to irridated wastelands around a neutron star, to really weird brilliantly weird ice-cloud systems, etc etc.

Oh and you could also pal around in the nebula that the Gas Mining Guild operates out of to monopolize h-fuel production, and deep inside it is the wreckage of the old Rheinland navy back from when they tried to seize it. I remember that place because I was trying to get in good with the GMG for their very powerful L7 and L9 weapons. For how scaled back the mechanics of that game was there was a lot to chill out and work towards.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on November 05, 2016, 02:50:16 PM
Well, another imaginary spaceship has been announced.  It looks like people are finally balking and walking away from this.


Oh wait no, just kidding. They made another 1.4M overnight:

The funny thing about that was that they had a pre-sale of that ship for some backers that had it discounted to the low, low price of $625 rather than the full price of $750. The catch was that CIG wasn't allowing store credit use (a lot of people melt down their ships or whatever to buy other ships later). If you wanted the discount you had to put new money in.

Now CIG has put one of their older ships, the Super Hornet, back up for sale. This ship is being discounted down to $145 ($20 off), no store credit, new money only. Now a lot of people in the community are starting to get pissed off because it goes back on a promise CIG made that they wouldn't devalue ships by discounting them and that by buying a ship as early as possible you were guaranteeing yourself the best price. People are also starting to question why after having raised $130 million, CIG seemingly needs money to the point that they're doing these "new cash only" sales (hint: it doesn't help when they're spending money on things like mo-capping a guy mopping a floor).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Brolan on November 06, 2016, 02:49:53 PM
Goddamn these fuckers are slow learners.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on November 07, 2016, 06:44:30 AM
(hint: it doesn't help when they're spending money on things like mo-capping a guy mopping a floor).
I disagree.

(https://static.simpsonswiki.com/images/thumb/1/10/Scruffy.png/250px-Scruffy.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on December 25, 2016, 01:27:49 AM
just an update: this game that is never out has decided that it will not use cryengine anymore


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on December 25, 2016, 01:32:24 AM
Well technically they still are since Lumberyard is basically Cryengine with an Amazon AWS backend for the server-side stuff + Twitch integration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Lumberyard


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on December 25, 2016, 02:46:19 AM
I remember weeks of discussions at previous jobs about whether we should move up a point release in our current engine because it was going to mean man-years of extra work just for some better shaders or something. Given that there's no way that they are using a stock Cryengine deployment, I can't imagine that switching to a new engine (even if it's very closely related) is going to be as trivial as that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on December 25, 2016, 03:16:14 AM
this may prove problematic to their business model of never releasing a game and selling jpegs


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on December 25, 2016, 09:05:40 AM
I remember weeks of discussions at previous jobs about whether we should move up a point release in our current engine because it was going to mean man-years of extra work just for some better shaders or something. Given that there's no way that they are using a stock Cryengine deployment, I can't imagine that switching to a new engine (even if it's very closely related) is going to be as trivial as that.
True but the news articles about this say they've been working on the switch for about a year and the most recent demo uses the new engine so they've done most if not all of the switching work.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Furiously on December 25, 2016, 11:39:47 AM
this may prove problematic to their business model of never releasing a game and selling jpegs

They will just change engines again in two years.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on December 25, 2016, 12:58:52 PM
I remember weeks of discussions at previous jobs about whether we should move up a point release in our current engine because it was going to mean man-years of extra work just for some better shaders or something. Given that there's no way that they are using a stock Cryengine deployment, I can't imagine that switching to a new engine (even if it's very closely related) is going to be as trivial as that.
True but the news articles about this say they've been working on the switch for about a year and the most recent demo uses the new engine so they've done most if not all of the switching work.

Are these articles citing the same sources that have been saying the game is 99% done for the past three years? If they have a build with the new engine, then that's one thing, but a demo is not evidence of anything.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: tmp on December 26, 2016, 04:44:14 AM
Are these articles citing the same sources that have been saying the game is 99% done for the past three years?
Yes, they all cite Chris Roberts :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on December 26, 2016, 08:20:59 PM
Are these articles citing the same sources that have been saying the game is 99% done for the past three years?
Yes, they all cite Chris Roberts :grin:
Yup though I was wrong and it's the latest alpha that's running on Lumberyard and not just a demo:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/press/15660-Star-Citizen-And-Squadron-42-Utilize-Amazon-Lumberyard-Game-Engine

Quote
“We’ve been working with Amazon for more than a year, as we have been looking for a technology leader to partner with for the long term future of Star Citizen and Squadron 42,” said Chris Roberts, CIG’s CEO and creative director. “Lumberyard provides ground breaking technology features for online games, including deep back-end cloud integration on AWS and its social component with Twitch that enables us to easily and instantly connect to millions of global gamers. Because we share a common technical vision, it has been a very smooth and easy transition to Lumberyard. In fact, we are excited to announce that our just released 2.6 Alpha update for Star Citizen is running on Lumberyard and AWS.”


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on December 27, 2016, 05:49:06 AM
Maybe they need a new Kickstarter.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on December 27, 2016, 07:34:56 AM
Of course they do. These Lumberyards don't build themselves.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on December 27, 2016, 01:29:22 PM
to be honest and to try to be nice to star citizen, the whole scenario with cryengine being such a sack of shit could have suckered and tanked an otherwise good game in the middle of development.

MWO persists despite having to deal with cryengine's shitty netcode but i'm sure the devs there all just wish they could go back and have a do-over that omits cryengine.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on December 27, 2016, 01:58:31 PM
I believe MWO started with the Unreal engine but then they swapped to Cryengine. God knows why.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on December 27, 2016, 01:58:40 PM
to be honest and to try to be nice to star citizen

Sugarcoating things for the expense of assholes is how we ended up with Trump.

Star Citizen is an embarrassing mark on gaming history and if seppuku was a thing, we should be calling for it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ard on December 27, 2016, 07:17:53 PM
Star Citizen is an embarrassing mark on gaming history and if seppuku was a thing, we should be calling for it.

It's not going to make you feel any better, but you're probably going to get to see actual murder over it at least.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on December 27, 2016, 09:17:34 PM
Star Citizen is an embarrassing mark on gaming history and if seppuku was a thing, we should be calling for it.

It's not going to make you feel any better, but you're probably going to get to see actual murder over it at least.

Or suicide once the people who have literally spent tens of thousands of dollars thinking it was an "investment" realize what's happened to them and their money.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Gimfain on March 25, 2017, 03:36:19 AM
Its time to start subscribing due to the year 5 subscriber perks (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/citizens/15797-Year-5-Subscriber-Perks-Update)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on March 25, 2017, 06:31:34 AM
5 years on, still no game in sight and the rubes keep tossing money at him.

Goddamn I wish I didn't have a lick of morality in me.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on March 25, 2017, 09:16:33 AM
5 fuckin years. At this stage all the fighter pilots need to be modelled after Duke Kukem.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on March 25, 2017, 09:37:18 AM
It's always interesting to compare this to Elite:Dangerous since they both had their kickstarters at the end of 2012.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Severian on March 25, 2017, 11:27:29 AM
They don't get enough credit for creating an immersive multiplayer fantasy which has stood the test of time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on March 25, 2017, 01:47:54 PM
Damn.. that's good.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on March 25, 2017, 02:42:39 PM
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/zehSKo5CJWY/sddefault.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pagz on April 22, 2017, 10:43:14 PM
Was talking to a backer of this yesterday where they were praising them for keeping customers up to date with all that's happening with the project and they're happy with how it's going. Have they done something recently? What is happening?

(https://i.giphy.com/FMWVkUHndHry0.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on April 23, 2017, 12:22:43 AM
Five years later, and nothing more than a few buggy demos out. That's what is happening.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pagz on April 26, 2017, 06:03:55 AM
(https://i.giphy.com/c6DIpCp1922KQ.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on June 25, 2017, 02:25:59 AM
Found this interesting tidbit on the internet for your lazy Sunday entertainment.
 
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1396987

Quote
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08703814/charges/AHMo7d0tVN50wGM-FC6tbyhYlss

CIG, the creators of Star Citizen, a game that has pulled in $150 million in crowdfunding, many times the original goal of $6 million, has applied for additional loan funding from a bank, in return offering up literally everything they own as collateral - the Star Citizen IP, all assets, all code, distribution rights and so on.

Quote
24. LICENCE

24.1 The Chargee, ( bank ), hereby grants to the Chargor , ( CIG ), an exclusive license, revocable only in accordnance with Clause 24.2, to develop, produce, exploit and otherwise deal with the Game.

24.2 The Chargee, ( bank ), may terminate the license granted pursuant to Clause 24.1 above upon the happening of an Event of Default which remains unremedied on the date failing 60 days after the the Chargee has given written notice to the Chargor of such Event of Default.

TL;DR The bank now own the game and provide a license to CIG to continue developing, if they miss a payment, all the backers get screwed. They can't apply for any additional loans or funding because they have nothing to offer - all their assets have a negative pledge clause.

Putting everything you own up as collateral is pretty rare - Ford did it just before the 2008 recession and it was a heavily remarked upon piece of news because mortgaging the company was, and is, a gutsy move that requires either a strong long-term plan requiring lots of capital investment, or is an act of desperation in trying to feed a furnace and the only thing left are the floorboards and planking upon which it sits. Either way it's a huge risk.

Obviously the terms of the loan aren't public, but this looks like it's more of the latter than the former - banks will look at the company's assets, net income, company structure, accountant reports, etc. and then usually offer (or refuse) a loan with strings attached, the number of strings depending on the financial shape of the business.

CIG went to Coutts with their finances and came back with a floating charge, a fixed charge (on all assets), and a negative pledge. Evidently, their finances did not impress.


edit: I think the link is off as it's to the Foundry 42 subsidiary. Here's CIG https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08815227/charges/W3FsufjDb8gTRZZqoCvnEAJKzSk. But they're quite similar. And maybe Foundry 42 is what owns the IPs and stuff.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on June 25, 2017, 02:36:36 AM
I wondered when they would run out of funds because it was a given that they eventually would. Because if the article is true this is basically a "we have run out of money and funding options at this point" move. Also a last ditch effort because no publisher will fund them and no studio will buy them if a bank controls all of the IP and assets.

Next step: massive layoffs and chapter 11.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on June 25, 2017, 03:01:06 AM
Two banks I think, somewhere in there was a mention of another bank owning some parts as collateral already. So a loan on a loan.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: koro on June 25, 2017, 06:22:50 AM
As much as I might enjoy it being otherwise, this is probably a nothingburger. CIG are little more than a shell company that exists to pay Chris Roberts and a couple of other people. Most of the money for Star Citizen moves through Squadron 42; this is more likely a kind of personal loan or for tax shelter reasons.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on June 25, 2017, 06:59:41 AM
Could be, but do you need to, or can you, put the entire company that has rights to Squadron 42/Star Citizen as collateral then?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on June 25, 2017, 07:08:27 AM
ayyyyyyyyy this is their exit strategy

sick


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on June 25, 2017, 12:25:17 PM
I mean, they only got $150 million from the suckers fans. How you supposed to make a game with that?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on June 25, 2017, 12:42:41 PM
Their supposed internal schedule is hilarious as well.  3.0 was announced at last year's Gamescom as coming out by the end of 2016 by Roberts himself. Obviously that didn't happen and it wasn't until near the end of April that they started posting their schedule for 3.0's progress. At that point it was due in the earliest form of testing on 6/5 and live on 6/29. Not surprisingly, as the weeks have gone on there's shockingly been an almost corresponding amount of delays. Now early testing is scheduled for sometime between 7/6-7/20 (the moved from a set date to a window of time probably because it gives them more flexibility on when they need to give people the next bullshit number) and live sometime between 8/4-8/10. So in about 2 months progress they've announced 5-6 weeks of delays. At the same time, they've been stripping content out of the patch (for instance they were supposed to have some planets ready but now they'll just have a couple moons). So minimum 8 months late, missing content, and will probably get shoved out broken around the time of this year's Gamescom just in time for another funding drive.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on June 25, 2017, 01:00:35 PM
This has made my night.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on June 25, 2017, 01:12:58 PM
Here's the company line:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/1/thread/re-uk-tax-rebate-advance-for-foundry-42

Quote
We have noticed the speculations created by a posting on the website of UK’s Company House with respect to Coutt’s security for our UK Tax Rebate advance, and we would like to provide you with the following insight to help prevent some of the misinformation we have seen.

Our UK companies are entitled to a Government Game tax credit rebate which we earn every month on the Squadron 42 development. These rebates are payable by the UK Government in the fall of the next following year when we file our tax returns.  Foundry 42 and its parent company Cloud Imperium Games UK Ltd. have elected to partner with Coutts, a highly regarded, very selective, and specialized UK banking institution, to obtain a regular advance against this rebate, which will allow us to avoid converting unnecessarily other currencies into GBP.  We obviously incur a significant part of our expenditures in GBP while our collections are mostly in USD and EUR.  Given today's low interest rates versus the ongoing and uncertain currency fluctuations, this is simply a smart money management move, which we implemented upon recommendation of our financial advisors.

The collateral granted in connection with this discounting loan is absolutely standard and pertains to our UK operation only, which develops Squadron 42.  As a careful review of the security will show and contrary to some irresponsible and misleading reports, the collateral specifically excludes “Star Citizen.”   The UK Government rebate entitlement, which is audited and certified by our outside auditors on a quarterly basis, is the prime collateral. Per standard procedure in banking, our UK companies of course stand behind the loan and guarantee repayment which, however, given the reliability of the discounted asset (a UK Government payment) is a formality and nothing else. This security does not affect our UK companies’ ownership and control of their assets.  Obviously, the UK Government will not default on its rebate obligations which will be used for repayment, and even then the UK companies have ample assets to repay the loan, even in such an eventuality which is of course unthinkable.  

This should clarify the matter. Thank you.

So if I understand correctly, the line is "the US company totally has money this is just more convenient".

I also like how the collateral excludes Star Citizen. Which is academic because without Squadron 42 there will be no Star Citizen.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on June 25, 2017, 01:49:15 PM
Quote
Obviously, the UK Government will not default on its rebate obligations which will be used for repayment, and even then the UK companies have ample assets to repay the loan, even in such an eventuality which is of course unthinkable.

Oh, yes, 2017, the year you want to bet against the unthinkable.

Chris Roberts, you should consider drinking a bucket of bleach.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on June 25, 2017, 02:06:35 PM
I wondered when they would run out of funds because it was a given that they eventually would. Because if the article is true this is basically a "we have run out of money and funding options at this point" move. Also a last ditch effort because no publisher will fund them and no studio will buy them if a bank controls all of the IP and assets.

Next step: massive layoffs and chapter 11.

They haven't run out of funds yet. Foundary 42 is a subsidiary of Cloud Imperium and has "positive" "profit" growth because Cloud Imperium holds the $157 million and doles it out to the individual studios.

Even using Serek Dmart's estimates on yearly expenses Cloud Imperium shouldn't run out of money until January 2019. That's why they can still make monthly payments to both loans.


What matters the most now is how much they have to pay off monthly? Can the ship a product by 2020 because it sounds like they will be dangerously low on cash by then.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on June 25, 2017, 02:43:05 PM
Could it ship in 3 years time? 3 tears would have been an insane length of time to make this thing. This is year 5. The Last Guardian only took 9 years and Duke Nukem Forever 13 years.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on June 25, 2017, 02:44:58 PM
Insolvency happens when the total liabilities exceed total assets or when you run out of liquidity. In most jurisdictions this is already the case when you can reasonably expect one of the two to happen within a certain timeframe. So you can be insolvent even though you're still able to pay the bills if your liabilities are too high and you have negative cash flow.

If they claim insolvency the moment they run out of cash we're long past the point of actual insolvency and deep in the area of criminal proceeedings due to delayed filing for insolvency which is a felony in most jurisdictions.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on June 25, 2017, 02:50:58 PM
Could it ship in 3 years time? 3 tears would have been an insane length of time to make this thing. This is year 5. The Last Guardian only took 9 years and Duke Nukem Forever 13 years.

To whom though? Kickstarter backers are entitled to a copy of the finished game. There will be no additional sales of copies there. They seem to have extracted most of the money from the die hard lunatic fans as well at this point.

For a mainstream audience this game (if it ever becomes one that is) is both too niche and there is not enough hype surrounding it to garner any sort of day 1 momentum (there will be no No Man's Sky sort of hype). Also mainstream buyers expect it to be agame and not be a buggy mess.

The only reason this is still going is because Roberts can still milk his die hard fans for cash. If he ever releases the game that will be over.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on June 25, 2017, 03:41:41 PM
Jeff's point bears repeating. CIG has frontloaded its revenue via Kickstarter and selling jpegs but they've taken out a loan on the tail of their income stream. Either they expect that they can continue to pull in <repayments+operating costs+Chris Roberts' toys fund> indefinitely or whoever lent them money has had smoke blown up their ass.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MahrinSkel on June 25, 2017, 04:01:00 PM
This loan is a factoring for future tax credits, it is predicated on the presumption that they will continue to qualify for the credit (keep paying people in the UK to work on a video game) and that those credits will continue to be paid by the UK government. No larger context than that, not a sign of anything but uncertainty over UK politics.

--Dave


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on June 25, 2017, 05:55:10 PM
This loan is a factoring for future tax credits, it is predicated on the presumption that they will continue to qualify for the credit (keep paying people in the UK to work on a video game) and that those credits will continue to be paid by the UK government. No larger context than that, not a sign of anything but uncertainty over UK politics.

--Dave


Sure it's not a sign of guaranteed failure but if I kickstarted  this game I would be pissed they put up the entire game to be controlled by a bank if they did fail a payment.


They shouldn't even be in this theoretical scenario with Grand Theft Auto budget money.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MahrinSkel on June 25, 2017, 06:30:47 PM
Sure it's not a sign of guaranteed failure but if I kickstarted  this game I would be pissed they put up the entire game to be controlled by a bank if they did fail a payment.


They shouldn't even be in this theoretical scenario with Grand Theft Auto budget money.
And you think that *this* will be the cold shock of water that makes them question their reality?

--Dave


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on June 25, 2017, 07:44:42 PM
I'm 100% sure the crossover between Star Citizen Apes and Trump voters is huuuuuge.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on June 25, 2017, 11:49:20 PM
Sure it's not a sign of guaranteed failure but if I kickstarted  this game I would be pissed they put up the entire game to be controlled by a bank if they did fail a payment.


They shouldn't even be in this theoretical scenario with Grand Theft Auto budget money.
And you think that *this* will be the cold shock of water that makes them question their reality?

--Dave

The company line is already being touted by fans as an example of the company's financial savvy and proof that nothing is wrong. My favorite was that they must've shown the bank something super secret awesome from the game to get the loan.

edit: their excuse of avoiding currency conversion is also curious in that the weakening GBP is making their USD worth more, with Brexit and May it can only get better for the USD.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on July 20, 2017, 10:15:44 PM
Summary of Alpha 3.0 as far is known at the moment:

edit: as the latest deadline of June 19th goes by without a release.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 20, 2017, 11:01:09 PM
I read that whole thing

Anyone that still cares about this game should be written off harder than a trump voter (the initial supporters should be written off like a Stein voter).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hawkbit on July 20, 2017, 11:48:13 PM
~1000 kids could have gone to higher education; instead investors got ideas that will never come to fruition.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Shannow on July 25, 2017, 06:24:01 AM
154 million  :uhrr: :uhrr: :uhrr: :uhrr: :uhrr: :uhrr: :uhrr:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on July 25, 2017, 06:56:13 AM
Playing the newest release of 7D2D, created by a small dev team of fairly stubborn dudes (the core of which is s couple dudes), this is all the more stark. Both games funded on KS about the same time, and 7D2D has been playable and fun for years, and is getting fairly massive content updates on a steady schedule. Still in Alpha, but it's better than a lot of released games, they just want to keep working on it.

Then there's this thing. PT Barnum is alive and well, whether he goes by Molyneux or Roberts.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pagz on August 02, 2017, 10:29:51 PM
Wait... The full released game will only have 5 - 10 systems? Total?  I... What? Has this always been the scope of this game? Why did I think it would be on elite dangerous levels of space?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on August 03, 2017, 05:10:47 AM
Not exactly. The original "stretch goals" of the Kickstarter specified 100 Star Systems to explore ON LAUNCH, among other things that have been whittled down

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen


I have a feeling that showing that page to a backer would get a reaction akin to Garlic vs Vampires at this point.

Seriously, they have really blown their kickstarter goals quite dramatically. Which is technically illegal.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on August 03, 2017, 06:01:10 AM
Because you believed the lies in the original pitch and later statements.

Also, '5-10 systems' is a hilariously wide estimate. It's the kind of range you'd pitch when you've done no content creation at all yet. Once you've made a system or two, you have a feel for how much work it is and how many systems you can deliver in the time available. A number like 5-10 indicates that you have no idea how much work even one system is and so you're hedging until you do.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on August 03, 2017, 10:51:07 AM
And that's 5 - 10 planets with probably one tenth of the content of the six planets from Mass Effect Andromeda.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: 01101010 on August 03, 2017, 11:42:42 AM
So this is actually going to be a game? I thought it was some sort of Fyre Festival for 733T PC gamers.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on August 12, 2017, 03:14:10 AM
The weekly 3.0 schedule update came out on Friday. As some of you may know, they started putting out this schedule a few months ago to show their progress towards releasing 3.0 to the evocati test server, the public test server, and then Live. It rapidly turned into every two weeks announce a two week delay, with the release window always somehow magically remaining just around the corner, and "hey we have some more ships to sell".

This was an update that CR had promised last year at Citizencon would release by December (2016) and it was already rapidly looking like it might not even be out by Gamescom this year as the release kept getting pushed back (even as features were cut). Now with the most recent schedule update, they've apparently removed the target release window dates entirely. This dumpster fire of a patch is going to be lucky to get pushed out there by the end of the year. But hey, I'm sure there was no smoke and mirrors involved in the hands on demos they gave journalists from PC game mags a couple weeks back.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Abagadro on September 04, 2017, 10:13:16 PM
https://youtu.be/3DCbvu-uF4o


Gamescon presentation with goon/Serek Dmart commentary.  Many level of fun including the goons trolling Derek in real time.




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on September 09, 2017, 12:58:53 AM

could you imagine looking back on your life and realizing that entire years of it had 'really hating a game someone else was making' as your highest priority, time, and emotional investment


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on September 09, 2017, 02:02:52 AM
As opposed to the rest of us, who prefer to spread that hatred out across several different games, amirite.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rattran on September 09, 2017, 06:08:12 AM
I think the Good Doctor is just mad that his bloated, overpromised and under developed borderline scams only made him a few million, not this kind of money. Those are his Kajillions, damnit!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on September 09, 2017, 10:32:02 AM
I assume it's the same thing that GL-Jeff at Glitchless must think when he wakes up hungover in a crummy apartment: I was born too soon.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on September 09, 2017, 02:59:40 PM
As opposed to the rest of us, who prefer to spread that hatred out across several different games, amirite.

a smattering of game kvetching on a forum or three doesn't even come close to the daunting percentage of this man's mental focus that is spent on hating star citizen pathologically.

and it's especially weird because you know the shit that triggered it in the first place is his projecting so hard you could read his shitposts on the moon in solid daylight


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on September 10, 2017, 11:59:51 AM
Character pooping confirmed to be in.  :uhrr:


https://youtu.be/JdS8q2_d76o?t=2168

In case the embedded video doesn't go to the right timestamp, skip to about 36:20.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on September 10, 2017, 12:24:39 PM
"Hold up guys, we have to stop the raid. I've got to drop a deuce."

"Well, go AFK then."

"No, my pilot - he's got to leave this upper decker or I'm going to be unable to target shit."

I don't even...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on September 10, 2017, 12:29:55 PM
Character pooping confirmed to be in.  :uhrr:


https://youtu.be/JdS8q2_d76o?t=2168

In case the embedded video doesn't go to the right timestamp, skip to about 36:20.
It sounds like just peeing at the moment. Pooping probably requires another $10 million to properly simulate.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on September 10, 2017, 03:35:44 PM
Imminent new round of crowdsourcing. "For just $1,000, you can ensure that your character shits big solid turds, rather than the generic diarrheal stream. For $5,000, we'll make sure your character has a special futuristic poopsock and never has to crap in the middle of a battle. For $50,000, your character can have a special teleporter fitted inside his rectum that will deposit rectal contents as they accumulate in a designated enemy cockpit".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on September 10, 2017, 06:54:42 PM
I think it's going to be more in terms of what quality of space toilet you can have installed on your ship(s).  Keep in mind that you need space toilets in space.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on September 13, 2017, 11:36:17 PM
Just refunded 3 "Completionist" packages for a guild, $45k returned (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/6zy3ko/just_refunded_3_completionist_packages_for_a/) (reddit post)

Not sure whether to believe it but it's funny anyway.  :why_so_serious:

edit:ArsTechnica now reports that a Cloud Imperium rep has gone on the record stating that some of the Redditor’s claims are fabrication, including the amount (CIG maintains it was $330, not $45000) and that the screenshots and videos depicting poor customer service are forgeries.  (http://massivelyop.com/2017/09/14/star-citizen-backer-claims-his-guild-sought-and-received-a-45000-refund/)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on September 14, 2017, 01:45:04 AM
Chris Roberts interview.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-08-29-star-citizen-would-be-the-worst-scam-in-the-world

Quote
We run the business like a live business - we look at what we bring in every month, every year and plan our business by that. If that changed, we would change what we do. Outside the fact we're not finished or released, the company runs like we had an online game which was monetised every day.
Quote
Yes, but we do say it when people put in their money - there's a load of disclaimers on it.
Quote
People still say 'Chris, you lied to me', even if I did give all those caveats for our predictions. People forget all those qualifiers. I am fed up of giving someone an estimate - I'd rather say, here's the data I have, here's the schedule I see.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on September 14, 2017, 02:21:55 AM
 :grin:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on September 14, 2017, 01:33:39 PM
when scope creep starts to become so potent and so beyond parody that it ceases being a rhetorical reference for project management concerns and instead reaches a point of raw and unalloyed concentration of such potence that it ruptures causality and metastasizes into a solid and literal form, spreading outward as a real physical manifestation, like zerg creep, consuming all in its wake


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on September 14, 2017, 05:39:29 PM
"here's the schedule I see"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on October 17, 2017, 11:52:14 AM
This is why we are (four? five?) years in and there is still nothing to show for one hundred and ninety five million United States dollars.

(https://i.imgur.com/F5SwWyG.png)

Just reading that makes me cringe.

Squadron 42 has slipped back another year, Chris is still doing casting calls for more mo-cap and saying he'll be able to show 'some of' Sq42 in December but he still needs more time for the actual game part of the game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on October 17, 2017, 12:19:07 PM
 :ye_gods:  :ye_gods:  :ye_gods:  :ye_gods:  :ye_gods:  :ye_gods:  :ye_gods:  :ye_gods:  :ye_gods:  :ye_gods:  :ye_gods:

Jesus fucking Christ. If I worked for an asshole that said that, I'd shoot myself in the fucking head. I'm not saying there aren't times where you get into a project and realize "Oh shit, I vastly underquoted how long this would take or what resources I would need" but holy shit. How do you even know how to allocate resources if you don't know the scope of the task?

... the fuck you talking about, cracker?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 17, 2017, 02:43:16 PM
This is why we are (four? five?) years in and there is still nothing to show for one hundred and ninety five million United States dollars.

(https://i.imgur.com/F5SwWyG.png)

Just reading that makes me cringe.

Squadron 42 has slipped back another year, Chris is still doing casting calls for more mo-cap and saying he'll be able to show 'some of' Sq42 in December but he still needs more time for the actual game part of the game.

lets get divorced over this game


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 17, 2017, 02:57:43 PM
is serek dmart still tilting at their scammy successs windmill?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on October 18, 2017, 02:51:06 AM
I too only check whether or not I can fly after I jumped out of the plane


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mithas on October 18, 2017, 07:45:46 AM
is serek dmart still tilting at their scammy successs windmill?

Yes. A quick check of his Twitter feed shows that 3/4 of his tweets are about Star Citizen.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 18, 2017, 08:39:07 AM
is serek dmart still tilting at their scammy successs windmill?

here's a timelapse gif of d-mart over the past few years regarding Star Citizen

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-v2KyFTO5v24/WL2-gnNyJGI/AAAAAAAAC3A/UNhb7s3DIJwp9iT5Jbo6rm5YLKnvPbQ-ACLcB/s1600/asr.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 18, 2017, 08:56:17 AM
serek dmart is literally the "i could do that" guy at modern museums

screams from the back: "but you didn't"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on October 18, 2017, 10:07:21 AM
:cthulu: is literally the "i could do that" guy at modern museums

 :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on October 18, 2017, 10:08:35 AM
Wait, do we still have new registration turned off?  If so I guess we're safe.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on October 18, 2017, 10:21:47 AM
I thought he appeared back in the Waterthread days when we had devs posting on the regular and he got banned.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on October 18, 2017, 10:45:20 AM
As far as I know bans from before the last major f13 upgrade didn't carry over, never mind bans from Waterthread. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on October 18, 2017, 10:57:31 AM
Right, but not many banned ever tried coming back. Hrose and Hyu were the only two I remember.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on October 18, 2017, 11:27:32 AM
I was banned from Waterthread  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 18, 2017, 12:42:12 PM
I was banned from Waterthread  :why_so_serious:

so was I

so I ate it


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: jakonovski on October 18, 2017, 02:17:58 PM
serek dmart is literally the "i could do that" guy at modern museums

screams from the back: "but you didn't"

Well to be fair in this case he kinda did.  :cthulu:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MisterNoisy on October 18, 2017, 04:44:13 PM
I'm glad that this 'game' is a thing.  I can justify buying anything else because at least I didn't put money into SC.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on October 19, 2017, 08:16:24 AM
I'd buy Star Citizen before anything Dmart has made.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on October 20, 2017, 11:15:10 AM
They've announced a new ship for sale in advance of CitizenCon, the Pioneer, which is interesting in a number of ways.
 
Firstly it's $850.

Secondly, it's a limited edition ship which means you can't buy it with store credit, you need to open your wallet again.

Thirdly, it's a colony ship and is described by RSI as 'a game changer'. Which sounds like there's yet another unplanned addition to the game scope.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on October 20, 2017, 11:33:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/YRCrfDX.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Severian on October 20, 2017, 02:47:09 PM
They've announced a new ship for sale in advance of CitizenCon, the Pioneer, which is interesting in a number of ways.
 
Firstly it's $850.

Secondly, it's a limited edition ship which means you can't buy it with store credit, you need to open your wallet again.

Thirdly, it's a colony ship and is described by RSI as 'a game changer'. Which sounds like there's yet another unplanned addition to the game scope.
 
Those things aren't interesting. They don't even qualify for [airquotes] interesting [/airquotes] at this point.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 20, 2017, 02:52:11 PM
it's interesting in zero ways and this game is for fucking idiots and losers


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on October 20, 2017, 03:53:45 PM
It's interesting not because I think those things will ever get added to the game (as much as anything that's likely to be released can be called a game), it's interesting because they are making a more-than-usual naked grab for cash with this ludicrously expensive ship that you can't apply previous pledges towards. Plus they are trying to justify it with a USP that indicates that the scope can be expanded infinitely and in ways that weren't even remotely close to what they've previously announced even by the crazy precedents we've already seen. It's like when you are getting pissed off at the car salesman and are about to walk away when he says 'Well, what about this one? It comes with a feature that makes your wife better in bed.'


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on October 20, 2017, 11:30:52 PM
It's interesting to compare this model (feature bloat before release) to something like Crusader King 2's which released the base game and has been churning out expansions since then (almost 6 years now and the next one has already been announced) (https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Downloadable_content).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Shannow on October 23, 2017, 12:44:13 PM
And I'm guessing CK2 expansions don't cost $850.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: MahrinSkel on October 23, 2017, 06:24:49 PM
[my attorney advises me that I have nothing to say]


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on October 24, 2017, 04:50:14 AM
It's interesting not because I think those things will ever get added to the game (as much as anything that's likely to be released can be called a game), it's interesting because they are making a more-than-usual naked grab for cash with this ludicrously expensive ship that you can't apply previous pledges towards. Plus they are trying to justify it with a USP that indicates that the scope can be expanded infinitely and in ways that weren't even remotely close to what they've previously announced even by the crazy precedents we've already seen. It's like when you are getting pissed off at the car salesman and are about to walk away when he says 'Well, what about this one? It comes with a feature that makes your wife better in bed.'

So, uh, tell me more about this car.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: cironian on October 24, 2017, 07:53:32 AM
So, uh, tell me more about this car.

It's going to be totally awesome, and to get you in the mood we have prepared a trailer of a woman being good in bed. You can leave your 50000$ with us right now and then you'll be one of the few to receive this limited edition car as soon as we have finished developing it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on October 24, 2017, 08:02:20 AM
Just PM the trailer.  kthx.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on October 24, 2017, 09:16:47 AM
Just PM the trailer.  kthx.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvZEuViVkp0


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mandella on October 24, 2017, 09:20:58 AM
Not sure why the weird hate for using the word "interesting.' Same shit different day is interesting if one is watching (with interest) for when the bubble is going to burst.

Putting off the inevitable as a business model is fascinating.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 24, 2017, 09:37:43 AM
I think it's exactly as interesting as sitting in on your aunt getting her friends together in her living room and then ambushing them with a MLM pitch and a speech from a recruiter. Like it's fascinating to watch, but for the most cynical reasons.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Severian on October 24, 2017, 10:32:56 AM
Not sure why the weird hate for using the word "interesting.' Same shit different day is interesting if one is watching (with interest) for when the bubble is going to burst.

Putting off the inevitable as a business model is fascinating.


I am also watching with interest as to how long RSI can pull this off. But there's nothing particularly new or interesting about this latest digital art sale / Reaffirmation of Faith, and it won't change anything about the dynamic of the cult. It's just another postponement of the increasingly hypothetical Day of Reckoning.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on October 24, 2017, 10:37:16 AM
Has anybody been keeping track of all the features that have been promised in these games and what state they are in?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 24, 2017, 10:38:42 AM
Has anybody been keeping track of all the features that have been promised in these games and what state they are in?


something awful has at least a partial list, at last reckoning


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 24, 2017, 10:40:24 AM
Quote from: Beer4TheBeerGod
Star Citizen Litany of Lies
Original Promise: "Single Player – Offline or Online(Drop in / Drop out co-op play)" (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/description)
New Truth: Isolated co-op missions outside the campaign. (http://massivelyop.com/2015/07/31/co-op-missions-yanked-from-star-citizens-squadron-42/)

Original Promise: "Mod-able multiplayer (hosted by YOU)" (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/description)
New Truth: "We will be live and in operation for some time before anybody even looks at private servers." (https://youtu.be/aaoGxOxzAwc?t=1h50m50s)

Original Promise: "We have backed Oculus Rift and will support it in Star Citizen / Squadron 42." (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/description)
New Truth: "Sorry to say, do not hold your breath for this." (https://twitter.com/commando_tom/status/826594046994952193)

Original Promise: "Star Citizen will launch with 100 star systems." (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals)
New Truth: 5-10 star systems at launch. (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6nfj9d/discussion_5_to_10_star_systems_at_launch/)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on October 24, 2017, 11:47:24 AM
Outside of the handful of developers making awesome games, RSI is my favorite dev. Rather than just churning out generic content, they're doing us the favor of not even fucking up the market by releasing stuff. I love it, drain off the suckers, PT Barnum would be proud. American capitalism at its best.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on October 25, 2017, 06:51:27 AM
The stream of entertainment has tapered off lately, though.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on October 25, 2017, 09:20:27 AM
The stream of entertainment has tapered off lately, though.
The stream seems to have ended but, in my experience there are usually a few extra squirts to come before you can shake out the last drops and zip everything up.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on October 26, 2017, 08:48:12 AM
No matter how much you shake and dance, the last two drops of entertainment will always land in your pants.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Der Helm on October 27, 2017, 03:10:14 AM
No matter how much you shake and dance, the last two drops of entertainment will always land in your pants.
And that is where the cancer comes from.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 27, 2017, 02:05:18 PM
have i got some dribble for you


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 27, 2017, 02:07:45 PM
https://www.polygon.com/2017/10/27/16554132/star-citizen-free-with-intel-ssd-exclusive-ship-raven

An in-game exclusive star citizen ship model and game will be packaged with the purchase of Intel's new SSD line

Quote
Intel plans to give away a key to the early alpha of the Star Citizen persistent universe with every one of its new Optane line of solid-state consumer hard drives. The offer also includes an exclusive in-game ship that won’t be available anywhere else.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ezrast on October 27, 2017, 03:46:33 PM
We were talking with some folks at Intel and it occurred to us that their new technology that no one has ever heard of is probably going to be necessary for the full enjoyment of our game that was supposed to be out years ago. It's really groundbreaking because nobody has ever thought to put a faster disk in a gaming machine before. We're very excited about the opportunity to make some other patsy handle the refunds while we deliver a stream of entertainment directly onto our customers' faces at an unprecedented rate.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Megrim on October 29, 2017, 08:30:23 PM
https://www.polygon.com/2017/10/27/16554132/star-citizen-free-with-intel-ssd-exclusive-ship-raven

An in-game exclusive star citizen ship model and game will be packaged with the purchase of Intel's new SSD line

Quote
Intel plans to give away a key to the early alpha of the Star Citizen persistent universe with every one of its new Optane line of solid-state consumer hard drives. The offer also includes an exclusive in-game ship that won’t be available anywhere else.

This whole thing has to be some kind of long-running experiment in social psychology.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 29, 2017, 08:47:24 PM
Dont need an experiment to prove people are dumb af. Just go outside and talk to literally anyone. Intelligence is a coin flip. Ability to critically think is a six on a dice.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on October 29, 2017, 11:13:10 PM
Why stop there? Go buy a shirt and use the code to unlock an identical shirt in game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on November 28, 2017, 01:37:41 AM
Star Citizen is having an Anniversary Special Week sale (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/16269-Anniversary-Special-Week-2017) to celebrate 5 years of amazing sales pitches. Seems that at the time of this posting they've raised
$167,877,904 but that still isn't enough to get the game out of alpha (in 5 years).  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lesion on November 28, 2017, 07:26:23 AM
This remains my favourite thing in video game news forever.

(I still have my collector's edition Hellgate: London box inside another box labeled "SHAME")


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Gimfain on November 28, 2017, 01:55:35 PM
They started selling land claims now
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/16278-UEE-Land-Claim-Licenses


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on November 28, 2017, 02:13:03 PM
Good Christ, they spent 40 minutes of video time talking about a feature they can't even show a working prototype for, all to sell $50 and $100 plots of non-existent virtual land you need to buy a colony ship to use?

MIND. BLOWN.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tale on November 28, 2017, 03:06:23 PM
Holy shit. That is shameless.

But imagine the $$$ if Elite: Dangerous (which actually exists) sold off land parcels on the planets and moons of its 400 billion star systems at $50 to $100.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on November 28, 2017, 03:36:48 PM
God the comments on these posts


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on November 28, 2017, 08:29:19 PM
 This can only succeed if the buyers are irrationally greedy?



$50 and i can resell it? That's a steal. I can get people to buy this at much higher prices in 3 years.


It's the only way this seems viable.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tale on November 28, 2017, 09:01:50 PM
Might as well sell space too. Act now! A cubic portion of simulated emptiness that hasn't been made yet could be yours for $49.95.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on November 28, 2017, 11:17:35 PM
sell everything.
players start naked.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on November 29, 2017, 01:27:07 AM
What's wrong with these people ?  I mean, medically.  There's gotta be a name for it.  A proper scientific name for how fucking stupid you can be.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on November 29, 2017, 01:34:33 AM
I think this has turned into a competition between Roberts and Garriott and who can sell the most ridiculous shit to their sycophantic fan base.  Roberts is clearly winning if you count money alone but Garriott still has him beat on shear WTF when he started selling his own blood.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on November 29, 2017, 01:35:13 AM
What's wrong with these people ?  I mean, medically.  There's gotta be a name for it.  A proper scientific name for how fucking stupid you can be.


Addictive personalities?  Stockholm syndrome?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on November 29, 2017, 02:34:08 AM
You have already sunk thousands into the game, so another you might as well sink another thousand. Nigerian scammers, Ponzi Scammers, and other con men work the same way.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on November 29, 2017, 03:26:03 AM
Sunk cost fallacy, delusion, dreams of grandeur, and plain old stupidity and naievity make this possible.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on November 29, 2017, 06:55:44 AM
sell everything.
players start naked.
Dude, you of all people should know better. People start in ugly underwear and pay to be naked. Then sell dingdong/booby enhancement packs.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mandella on November 29, 2017, 11:12:31 AM
You guys are forgetting the speculators, who are neither naive nor stupid, although they can be overconfident.

There are people buying stuff that they have no intention of ever using, nor do they even really care if the game ever ships -- they are just betting that they can resell the virtual junk for a markup before it all collapses.

Still ends up with a dumbass end user who actually wants the stuff, I suppose. Makes it even worse that there are enough of them to make a middlemen market of speculators possible.

But if everyone always spend their money wisely, me, and probably a lot of folks here, would likely be out of business...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Merusk on November 29, 2017, 11:19:11 AM
Speculators who looked into this deserved to be fleeced as well. There was no way it was going to be delivered, ever.

If folks spent money wisely, I'd be busier, as training and education would be more valued than "figure it out" and "Joe is the 'computer guy' he knows how to install Windows."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: taolurker on December 01, 2017, 05:13:02 PM
Every once in a while a couple of streamers I know do this game, it's usually worth it for the comedy.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on December 07, 2017, 10:34:50 AM
I know a few star citizen speculators. Their take on the situation was more or less correct and wise: when millions of fools are parting their money, try to valuate it and act on it. Star Citizen is a giant pit of money being hurled out by fools.

They have done ok with limited edition ship pack trading.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: 01101010 on December 07, 2017, 12:07:57 PM
So is this an actual game in development or some psych-economic experiment?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Furiously on December 07, 2017, 08:52:05 PM
Incompetently run Ponzi scheme???


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on December 08, 2017, 04:38:37 AM
It doesn't look incompetent to me. Looks like they're doing ok swindling money from folks.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on December 08, 2017, 06:06:32 AM
Yes.  This may be the most creative ponzi scheme ever.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rk47 on December 09, 2017, 04:59:29 PM
(https://i.redd.it/kjot6bwifj201.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on December 09, 2017, 05:02:35 PM
Is the box riding simulator part of the base game or a paid add-on module?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on December 09, 2017, 09:15:53 PM
what a game


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on December 10, 2017, 03:58:19 PM
That's just a creative use of game mechanics. Anyone who doesn't box surf is just a fucking noob who doesn't appreciate the complexity of the physics system.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on December 11, 2017, 02:13:39 PM
Coming soon, special box rewards for donors.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on December 12, 2017, 01:00:59 PM
EMERGENT GAMEPLAY


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on December 13, 2017, 10:52:52 AM
Crytek sueing Cloud Imperium.

http://massivelyop.com/2017/12/13/crytek-sues-star-citizen-developer-cloud-imperium-alleging-copyright-infringement/


https://www.scribd.com/document/367101474/Crytek-v-CIG

 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ezrast on December 13, 2017, 11:19:14 AM
An exit strategy! Send all the money overseas, declare bankruptcy, blame Crytek for everything, and let them field the death threats.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on December 14, 2017, 04:18:05 AM
I actually suspect that's what's going to happen.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on December 14, 2017, 09:33:51 AM
But it's a meritless lawsuit!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on December 18, 2017, 11:36:57 PM
It’s a lawsuit over 75,000 in unpaid licensing fees. That’s barely three spaceships sold in game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Abagadro on December 19, 2017, 12:20:58 PM
You are reading that wrong.. 75k is a jurisdictional threshold to be in that particular court.  Ths pleading is for an unknown amounr in excess of 75k. They are actually going for the full enchilada of all the gains CGI has made with their IP.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: 01101010 on December 19, 2017, 12:46:48 PM
Please tell me that include the box surfing.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on December 19, 2017, 01:05:12 PM
You are reading that wrong.. 75k is a jurisdictional threshold to be in that particular court.  Ths pleading is for an unknown amounr in excess of 75k. They are actually going for the full enchilada of all the gains CGI has made with their IP.

and i hope they get it


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on December 19, 2017, 09:41:05 PM
You are reading that wrong.. 75k is a jurisdictional threshold to be in that particular court.  Ths pleading is for an unknown amounr in excess of 75k. They are actually going for the full enchilada of all the gains CGI has made with their IP.

and i hope they get it

If it doesn't come out by the end of 3019 it should be running dangerously low on funds. If those estimates made by Smart are mostly right the loan sharks get everything and Crytek nothing except the shirt on Chris' back.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Der Helm on December 20, 2017, 12:20:24 AM
Crytek sueing Cloud Imperium.

http://massivelyop.com/2017/12/13/crytek-sues-star-citizen-developer-cloud-imperium-alleging-copyright-infringement/


https://www.scribd.com/document/367101474/Crytek-v-CIG

 :why_so_serious:
Leonard French breaking down the lawsuit filed by Crytek (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MzzuiQVTDw&t=230s)

Interesting if you are interested in (copyright) law and have an hour to kill.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on December 20, 2017, 06:10:50 AM
If it doesn't come out by the end of 3019 it should be running dangerously low on funds.

o


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Gimfain on December 20, 2017, 01:15:45 PM
You can now buy tanks in star citizen, ranging from $95 to $725.
https://imgur.com/a/BNtWo


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Viin on December 20, 2017, 01:23:06 PM
Are they, by chance, registered as a church?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on December 20, 2017, 02:12:39 PM
I'm sure there's an emeter SOMEWHERE in one of their offices.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on December 21, 2017, 04:32:35 AM
You know how right now if you want to make fun of someone who is gullible, you offer to sell them the Brooklyn Bridge? Or similar cliches that invoke actual 19th and early 20th cons? In the mid-21st Century, the colloquial way to do the same thing will be to offer to sell them a spaceship in Star Citizen.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on December 21, 2017, 11:10:48 AM
An „actual patent attorney“ on Twitch.

Just when I thought I have seen everything.

The video was great though and very informative as well


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on December 21, 2017, 12:09:22 PM
You can now buy tanks in star citizen, ranging from $95 to $725.
https://imgur.com/a/BNtWo

Gotta pay for that copyright legal defence somehow. :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Gimfain on December 23, 2017, 12:52:16 AM
They showed squadron 42, a full hour of "gameplay".
Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12NEaIgmpDg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on December 23, 2017, 11:38:34 AM
Their stuff used to look incredible. As in "so amazing that it is never gonna work", but at least it looked fantastic. Five years later, it is starting to look absolutely MEH, and it's still clunky and actually not working nor close to release. It feels and sounds like a generic Mass Effect at this point. Sure, with space fighting added but I believe that even a lot of people who used to drool over the screen are starting to feel severely underwhelmed by these videos.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on December 23, 2017, 01:31:40 PM
Counterpoint: it always looked like Vaseline lathered horseshit


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Abagadro on December 23, 2017, 08:08:39 PM
The sizzle reels for the ships looked good but those: 1) aren't anything like the actual game; and 2) were done by someone else apparently.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on December 23, 2017, 11:58:04 PM
What little I bothered to watch of the Squadron 42 video reminded me of Mass Effect if the ship were bigger, and I was forced to walk through even more of it for no good goddamn reason other than "SO REAL!!!" The space vistas are pretty but seriously, the interface of actually living in your ship and having to go to different parts of it... properly moderated time dilation is a good thing in games.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rattran on December 24, 2017, 05:22:03 AM
Just wait until they announce that space travel times are Realistic and it'll take you 12-16 months of flying to get from the start point to the first poi.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Der Helm on December 26, 2017, 04:40:34 AM
They showed squadron 42, a full hour of "gameplay".
Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12NEaIgmpDg)

A space combat game and what they show off in the video is mouse controlled dogfighting ?  :ye_gods: :facepalm:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Der Helm on December 26, 2017, 04:42:23 AM
An „actual patent attorney“ on Twitch.

Just when I thought I have seen everything.

The video was great though and very informative as well
He records his main "show" on twitch and publishes on youtube, he also streams playing videogames, PUBG and WoT for example.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on January 21, 2018, 12:12:20 AM
Crytek doesn't seem to be backing down as they hit back at CIG’s request to dismiss Star Citizen legal case (https://www.pcinvasion.com/crytek-hits-back-star-citizen-legal-case).  :grin:



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Setanta on May 28, 2018, 01:13:32 PM
WTF???? $27000 bundle?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/the-legatus-pack/

Are people really that insane?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on May 28, 2018, 01:19:24 PM
WTF???? $27000 bundle?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/the-legatus-pack/

Are people really that insane?

How is it you get internet in that cave you live in?

Oh, and the best part is you need to have already have spent over $1000 on other fake internet ships before being given the privilege to purchase this one. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on May 28, 2018, 05:09:16 PM
It never fails to be so surprisingly unsurprising


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on May 28, 2018, 06:32:49 PM
Not available for sale anymore. Is it sold out or did the feds raid the building in the meantime?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on May 28, 2018, 06:34:21 PM
i bet they "sold out"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on May 28, 2018, 08:06:10 PM
whatever the fuck is happening right now it's half past fully insane. i do not have any way to think my way around the fact that they're selling a twenty two thousand dollar microtrans package specifically aimed at whales who have already invested a four figure sum into game ships. there is no way to take this knowledge and end up concluding "hm, ok, this isn't worrying and it seems like chris roberts is doing good things with his leadership of a studio" - this has become a wholly catastropic knife's edge of adventures in crowdfunding insanity.

I'm good on star citizen for now. good on all of it. I'll just be over here pillow smothering my already ailing hopes for star citizen so that I don't have to bother letting it live to experience the crushing reality of the project imploding in an utter catastrophe.

the only thing that can bring me back is if they release a $400 package that allows me to fly a Juicero ingame, in pursuit of valuable Raw Water deposits


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on May 28, 2018, 08:27:05 PM
a $400 package that allows me to fly a Juicero ingame, in pursuit of valuable Raw Water deposits

(http://forums.f13.net/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=6179;type=avatar)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Soln on May 28, 2018, 10:00:07 PM
Would they have pulled it and then claimed it was "sold out"?   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on May 29, 2018, 12:31:16 AM
Not available for sale anymore. Is it sold out or did the feds raid the building in the meantime?
It is still available (AFAIK), but if you aren't logged in with an account that has at least $1000 of sales on it, you'll get a 404 page.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on May 29, 2018, 02:32:14 AM
That's an excellent whale fleecing technique.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on May 29, 2018, 03:36:53 AM
I was laughing for a good half hour when I first read about this yesterday.


I'm now in full anticipation of what they will do during the summer of 2019 because I estimate they will burn through all their cash and the 2 loans they got by the end of 2019.


If I'm right their next sales pitch will be legendary though I don't know how you top $27k.


Only recently I was checking out government auctions and I could buy a plane and fuel to fly it for less than that much money.


Learning to fly seems like a better investment than pretending your in space with a videogame.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on May 29, 2018, 04:19:56 AM
The 1k limit on buying the 27k pack is probably just to avoid fake buyers since anyone who's already in for thousand might just be fanatic enough to convince themselves that wasting more money is somehow sane.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rattran on May 29, 2018, 06:21:20 AM
I think the proper term is flensing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flensing).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on May 29, 2018, 06:41:41 AM
Are you sure it's not felching?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on May 29, 2018, 07:23:26 AM
I'm willing to concede either term, to be honest.

Amazing this is still going.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on May 29, 2018, 09:35:39 AM
a $400 package that allows me to fly a Juicero ingame, in pursuit of valuable Raw Water deposits

(http://forums.f13.net/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=6179;type=avatar)

yeah and like, this is really important, it must be a juicero sized juicero, to scale. like you just ride around on top of it in a spacesuit or something, and it's at least as powerful as a battle carrier


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mandella on May 29, 2018, 09:41:40 AM
Not available for sale anymore. Is it sold out or did the feds raid the building in the meantime?
It is still available (AFAIK), but if you aren't logged in with an account that has at least $1000 of sales on it, you'll get a 404 page.

Do you also need a history of helping Nigerian princes launder money?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on May 29, 2018, 10:28:11 AM
Not available for sale anymore. Is it sold out or did the feds raid the building in the meantime?
It is still available (AFAIK), but if you aren't logged in with an account that has at least $1000 of sales on it, you'll get a 404 page.

Do you also need a history of helping Nigerian princes launder money?

No.

You need to be someone who believes in holding onto bitcoin for more than a year or 2 at a time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on May 29, 2018, 05:50:44 PM

I'm now in full anticipation of what they will do during the summer of 2019 because I estimate they will burn through all their cash and the 2 loans they got by the end of 2019.


They took 2 loans after taking in like $125 million??? :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on May 29, 2018, 06:02:16 PM
they got 2 loans

wait

link?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on May 29, 2018, 06:20:13 PM
They (meaning Foundry 42 in this case) have loans from National Westminster Bank (2015) (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08703814/charges/G09qg6Mo3GrwjGkM3-Z0rwEQjMY) and Coutts & Co. (2017) (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08703814/charges/AHMo7d0tVN50wGM-FC6tbyhYlss)

The Coutts & Co. one was taken out against a UK tax rebate they will supposedly be getting:

https://www.pcgamesn.com/star-citizen/star-citizen-loan-coutts-and-co

While they claim Star Citizen itself wasn't put up as collateral for the Coutts loan it does appear that Squadron 42 (what Foundry 42 is working on) was.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on May 29, 2018, 06:33:12 PM
Hahaha now they'll go to jail.

(They still have Debtors Prisons over there right?  :why_so_serious:)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on May 29, 2018, 09:30:05 PM
Due to austerity measures I think they abandoned something as fancy as Debtors prison.

Now you go to a dungeon.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on June 16, 2018, 02:36:08 AM
A "war" started on Reddit a couple days ago, between the /r/Eve (https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/) and /r/starcitizen (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/) subreddits, with accusations that Star Citizen copied the design (https://twitter.com/EveOnline/status/1007352147426594816) of the EVE mining ship Venture for one of their ships, claims that it was an original design (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzJooyFlSKc&feature=youtu.be&t=30m54s), and all sorts of silliness (https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/8rdygw/did_eve_copy_microsoft_ccp_busted/).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 16, 2018, 08:50:13 AM
Whether the Star Citizen artitst is aware or not, he clearly came up with his design after seeing the EVE ship. That information probably stayed dormant in his brain for ages and came out without him being aware. Is it plagiarism if it happened unconsciously?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mandella on June 16, 2018, 08:56:42 AM
Whether the Star Citizen artitst is aware or not, he clearly came up with his design after seeing the EVE ship. That information probably stayed dormant in his brain for ages and came out without him being aware. Is it plagiarism if it happened unconsciously?

According to this famous case (http://ultimateclassicrock.com/george-harrison-my-sweet-lord-plagiarism/), yes.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on June 16, 2018, 10:10:33 AM
Well, GOOD. Fuck Star Citizen.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Morat20 on June 16, 2018, 10:35:06 AM
I keep being surprised this is still an ongoing thing and hasn't just imploded.

I mean the mere existence of Star Citizen, and also people who think it's actually being made.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mandella on June 16, 2018, 10:53:21 AM
Eh, I gotta say, after bothering to look at the pictures, that that sort of front fork design is hardly original to either modeler. More likely they both just copied the same sort of general sci-fi-ish forklift looking design.

But EVE doesn't seem to want to make an actual legal case out of it anyway, and good for them on that. They were just ribbing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on June 17, 2018, 01:14:12 AM
Yeah, I know I’ve seen that ship design in multiple Sci-if things before either Eve or Star Citizen.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Abagadro on June 18, 2018, 09:54:55 PM
So many sci-fi ships are just remolded or dumbed down Chip Foss drawings that it is kinda pointless to argue about any of it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mandella on June 19, 2018, 09:11:27 AM
So many sci-fi ships are just remolded or dumbed down Chip Foss drawings that it is kinda pointless to argue about any of it.

I think you mean Chris Foss -- or is he known as "Chip" in some circles?

But honestly even his stuff can be rather derivative -- his WWII influence can be rather pronounced.

In any case, there has been a *lot* of spacecraft art over the decades, very little of it more than variations of some already existent theme.

I would say that the primary Star Trek ships had distinctively original art designs, to note an exception.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Abagadro on June 23, 2018, 10:46:56 PM
Ya, Chris. I get him jumbled with with Chip Foose, the car designer.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on June 25, 2018, 09:52:21 AM
this is my nonpolitical version of 'this can't just keep carrying on, can it?' then it does


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on June 26, 2018, 01:23:11 PM
Has this game actually shown anything recently? I haven't followed this game at all in years except this thread.

By recently I mean over the last year or so.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on June 29, 2018, 11:47:54 AM
they rolled out a really fancy new ship purchase screen on their web and mobile client


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on June 29, 2018, 02:30:52 PM
This is a summary published last January.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-01-09-star-citizen-alpha-3-impressions


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on July 19, 2018, 02:48:27 PM
Do you want to hear Serek Dmart rant for one full hour about Star Citizen and his lawsuit?

I am sure you don't. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYEAPspG92U)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on July 19, 2018, 02:50:14 PM
that may as well be a rickroll


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Shannow on July 20, 2018, 06:52:22 AM
Pretty sure I played that game, its called Space Engineers.  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on July 20, 2018, 12:27:47 PM
Do you want to hear Serek Dmart rant for one full hour about Star Citizen and his lawsuit?

I don't know. Is there a guy with a hammer that can beat my testicles for an hour instead?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on July 20, 2018, 02:28:56 PM
I tried to at least watch some of it, but the thought of watching an hour of badly done Poseur models wobble around the deck of a starsihp with their knees distended listening to video games' most self-righteous cunt speak was more than I could take.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on July 20, 2018, 07:18:36 PM
I tried to at least watch some of it, but the thought of watching an hour of badly done Poseur models wobble around the deck of a starsihp with their knees distended listening to video games' most self-righteous cunt speak was more than I could take.

Still better than Twilight.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on July 24, 2018, 09:06:34 AM
2012: Chris Roberts wants to get out of making bad movies and get into making bad cutscenes with [insert dramatic gesticulations here] mocap. Part of this involves asking the internet if it wants him to make a game to put the mocap in. The internet has recently discovered being asked for money in exchange for being assured the money will be spent, and everyone is really excited for how this will go really great always. "Make the game, Chris." says the internet.

2013: To help finance his baroque masterpiece of thrillingly direct, definitely creative character setpieces like cocksure_grizzled_veteran_03 and ambitious_tomboy_mechanic_07, Chris throws together a charming innocent little package to get an extra lil' ship at launch for just a few more bucks, oh it's just a wee little ship at such a pittance, oh we were but sweet summer children, but innocent little naive babes

2014: Chris is pretty excited at getting two million dollars. However he does not know that he is Lelouch Lamperouge and his Geass has just activated. He jokingly says to his fans, "well now I have to deliver an okay game. It's not like I can just look at you and say 'always buy spaceship jpegs for thousands of dollars until you are broke and rightfully divorced' ha ha"

2015: Chris was not actually Lelouch Lamperouge, the internet is just a miasma of terrible manchildren with disposable income. Everyone is buying jpegs. No one will not buy jpegs. Chris wisely invests this in the industrial-strength production of monthly jpeg package deals. The same fucking idiots who think things like "surely all this Trump shit can't just keep happening as insanely as this, surely something will break" spend years thinking this definitely can't keep happening until Star Citizen has 250 million dollars.
 
2016: You awake in a hospital bed and are told by a nurse that it's 2016 and you've been in a coma for four years. "Oh boy I can't wait to 𝗉𝗅𝖺𝗒 𝗌𝗈𝗆𝖾 𝗈𝖿 𝗋𝖾𝗅𝖾𝖺𝗌𝖾𝖽 𝗀𝖺𝗆𝖾 𝗌𝗍𝖺𝗋 𝖼𝗂𝗍𝗂𝗓𝖾𝗇" says your meme text.

2017: The Allchris hungers. Each new jpeg is now a pyramid scheme in and of itself, sold at exorbitant rates with promises of magnificent, world-spanning new mechanics that is each, individually, a full feature game release nested inside the larger Star Citizen. Each jpeg is actually paying off the initial work on the previous month's promised new mechanics.
 
2018: Star Citizen's scope creep is now so concentrated that it covers the earth in tangible form. Several zerg buildings have been placed on it, and the head of a Nydus canal bursts through earth's crust to deposit the glistening, naked form of Serek Dmart upon the ground. Immediately upon being birthed the Smart has complaints that a scam never-released-game is still better and more important than any of his own properties.

2019: Star Citizen is now the sole employer of all humankind. Jpeg packages are costly, but each one comes with a certain duration of guaranteed nutrient paste.

2020: Star Citizen

2021: Earth is now a tomb world with a cheeky Anomaly for your stellaris spacefaring empire to research, relating to how the civilization spontaneously super duper ended, crushed to death under pictures of spaceships endlessly generated by towering autofactories.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on July 24, 2018, 12:05:06 PM
Le brilliant.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on July 24, 2018, 12:33:50 PM
Star Citizen


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on July 27, 2018, 11:59:26 AM
But in 2020 Heir Trump declares himself to be the God Emperor and prevents Horus Roberts from turning earth into a tomb world.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on July 28, 2018, 11:05:04 PM
I love it every time I find a tomb world anomaly in Stellaris.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on August 06, 2018, 08:15:06 AM
Welp the mask is slipping.

Quote
Quote on the matter by Chris Roberts(2013):

4) NO Pay2Win - You should never be able to buy anything with real money that you can't buy in with in game credits. Once fully live SC in-game items will only be purchasable with in-game credits. There will even be some items you can ONLY earn by playing / flying missions. All you will be able to spend money on that is gameplay related would be buying some in-game credits as you don't want or don't have enough time to earn the credits you need for your contemplated purchase. We'll cap purchase of in-game credits to avoid someone unbalancing the game / economy.





This was a big sticking point among confirmed backers. Multiple threats revolved around that selling ships was ok because they were at or below cost. Star Citizen wasn't truly pay to win with the ability to buy in game currency being capped.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/93c6z2/psa_there_is_no_longer_a_cap_for_maximum_amount/


I strongly suspect this cap was removed because the sale of ships has slowed down too much and they need to focus on their whales even more.


It looks like highly likely Star Citizen won't run out of money by the end of 2019 as I estimated. Too bad we won't know what their daily income will be but how much longer do they intend to keep on going? If this isn't gold by 2021 I wonder how angry the poorer backers will get.




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on August 06, 2018, 09:51:22 AM
Too bad we won't know what their daily income will be but how much longer do they intend to keep on going?

Until people stop giving them money or the FTC shuts them down for fraud.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ginaz on August 06, 2018, 10:05:57 AM
Welp the mask is slipping.

Quote
Quote on the matter by Chris Roberts(2013):

4) NO Pay2Win - You should never be able to buy anything with real money that you can't buy in with in game credits. Once fully live SC in-game items will only be purchasable with in-game credits. There will even be some items you can ONLY earn by playing / flying missions. All you will be able to spend money on that is gameplay related would be buying some in-game credits as you don't want or don't have enough time to earn the credits you need for your contemplated purchase. We'll cap purchase of in-game credits to avoid someone unbalancing the game / economy.





This was a big sticking point among confirmed backers. Multiple threats revolved around that selling ships was ok because they were at or below cost. Star Citizen wasn't truly pay to win with the ability to buy in game currency being capped.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/93c6z2/psa_there_is_no_longer_a_cap_for_maximum_amount/


I strongly suspect this cap was removed because the sale of ships has slowed down too much and they need to focus on their whales even more.


It looks like highly likely Star Citizen won't run out of money by the end of 2019 as I estimated. Too bad we won't know what their daily income will be but how much longer do they intend to keep on going? If this isn't gold by 2021 I wonder how angry the poorer backers will get.




Hey, back off hater!  How can anyone say this game is p2w when...there's no game. :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on August 06, 2018, 11:34:58 AM
Sounds like a great start to a defense in court.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Kail on August 06, 2018, 03:44:30 PM
Not really sure why this is an issue.  I mean, players starting with the Death Star is cool, but starting with the Death Star and a thousand spacebucks in their pocket is going to unbalance things?  Come on.  The economy for this game was irreversibly fucked ages ago.  What do they think spacemoney is going to be used to buy, aside from space ships that you can already buy for real money with no restrictions?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on August 06, 2018, 05:43:57 PM
"game"

Any time you talk about this racket, put quotes around it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on August 07, 2018, 04:16:29 PM
Hey, back off hater!  How can anyone say this game is p2w when...there's no game. :oh_i_see:

It's pay to wait, so technically p2w.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Brolan on August 10, 2018, 07:11:57 PM
Just for the fun of it I went back to the start of the thread.  We are closing on on the 6 year anniversary of the beginning. 

Holy hell, I can't believe this has gone on this long with no real game produced and the suckers still paying in.  Incredible.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on August 10, 2018, 07:27:48 PM
I can

Since you read the whole thing, was there ever a time where I didn't think this was crap for suckers?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on August 10, 2018, 07:33:59 PM
Yep, totally thought it was garbo from the word go

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=22591.280

Hex is literally going to be birthed and shut down before this piece of shit launches

In other news I think this thread is why bloodworth left f13


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on August 11, 2018, 09:19:13 AM
I thought he left over a slapfight in the Mechwarrior thread?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: WayAbvPar on August 11, 2018, 12:37:43 PM
Is it bad that I didn't notice he was gone?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on August 11, 2018, 12:40:14 PM
It was definitely about Star Citizen. He went full Scientoology over it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Abagadro on August 11, 2018, 09:36:51 PM
Awwww, he was our own version of Jimmy Two Times.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on August 11, 2018, 11:25:14 PM
In other news I think this thread is why bloodworth left f13

Which is bad but I don't think it quite beats WUA's breaking point being a thread about the Battleship movie.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on August 12, 2018, 05:43:08 AM
WUA only left because he was banned.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on August 12, 2018, 07:40:10 AM
Sort of.  He got a temp ban for fucking up the Battleship thread.  Then he made a fake account and went on a tirade against Trippy that he absolutely knew was going to get him kicked for good.

So really, he quit the forum over the Battleship thread.  It was just in a suicide by cop method.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on August 12, 2018, 10:37:26 AM
tbf, I'd still unban him. His Baldur's Gate playthrough is still the best thread on this entire forum.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: WayAbvPar on August 12, 2018, 11:21:49 AM
Awwww, he was our own version of Jimmy Two Times.

Mmmm Stumptown coffee in my nose.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Paelos on August 15, 2018, 08:14:33 AM
Yep, totally thought it was garbo from the word go

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=22591.280

Hex is literally going to be birthed and shut down before this piece of shit launches

In other news I think this thread is why bloodworth left f13

It's absolutely why Bloodworth left. Everyone was mocking his insanity from the jump.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on August 15, 2018, 09:03:05 AM
May I be one of the people who look at that link, notice it's from 20fuking13, and go "fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuu...."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on August 16, 2018, 09:07:03 AM
You're not the only one.  Jesus.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: 01101010 on August 16, 2018, 09:53:00 AM
You're not the only one.  Jesus.


Makes one wonder how that time dilation shit works. Stuff that happened in the early 2000's doesn't feel that long ago, until you attach the number to it. Then that sudden realization of how much time has went by comes crashing down on you.

I get that mostly with the university kids coming in every year... shit they deem as ancient history is stuff I see happening a couple years ago - only to realize, no it happened when I was in college and that is well on 25 years now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on August 16, 2018, 12:35:13 PM
I know what you mean. I was telling my nieces and nephews about the Berlin Wall last week and explaining why it happened, and then I said it came down in 1989 and felt really old.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Njal on August 18, 2018, 12:41:32 PM
My father (a high energy physicist) once said "I just don't understand time".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on August 18, 2018, 02:04:27 PM
Time isn't the problem, merely our perception of it.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cadaverine on August 18, 2018, 09:07:01 PM
Time is an illusion.  Lunchtime doubly so.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on August 20, 2018, 07:32:08 AM
That's how I feel when I'm talking to some of the kids in the art scene about the Rodney King riots and realize to them it would be like some old timer talking to me about the old Watts riots.

Which means it's probably about time for another Watts riot?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on August 21, 2018, 12:59:41 AM
Well, that's fucking cheery.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on August 31, 2018, 12:28:48 AM
Hahahahahaha....


So if you want to watch the livestreams from CitizenCon this year? $20 digital ticket. Even the faithful are getting pissed off over on reddit for this one.

Edit: Also along with a couple minor in-game items that digital ticket gives you "access to purchase exclusive CitizenCon merchandise". Nothing like inserting microtransactions into your microtransactions.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on August 31, 2018, 01:33:54 AM
Yo dawg ?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Father mike on August 31, 2018, 04:12:32 AM
It's microtransactions all the way down !!!

On a related note, considering the cost of some of these ships, at what point do they become macrotransactions?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on August 31, 2018, 08:20:56 AM
They want to charge $20 for watching them livestream their shit?

Man, every time I think they can't find a new vein to tap, they hit that motherfucker with a hammer.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on August 31, 2018, 08:44:44 AM
It gets even better, in the apology letter Roberts calls out some of them as pitchfork wielders and condescendingly tells them he is going to explain what they couldn't think of of their own.

To even imply his supporters are dumb and callously berate them despite their long time support is some Trumpian " I can shoot someone in front of them " next level of disrespect.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on August 31, 2018, 11:04:29 AM

https://youtu.be/sjlDDZOGWvo


https://twitter.com/RebelGalaxy/status/1035335432395874304?s=20


More devs should be publicly shaming Roberts at this point.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on August 31, 2018, 12:30:39 PM
That's some high quality shade.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rasix on August 31, 2018, 12:46:32 PM
Star Citizen could end up being the best game ever made (Narrator: it won't), and he would still deserve all of the crap he's getting.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on August 31, 2018, 10:55:34 PM
It gets even better, in the apology letter Roberts calls out some of them as pitchfork wielders and condescendingly tells them he is going to explain what they couldn't think of of their own.

It was like that woman on twitter that someone linked to on Discord recently that was pissed that her wedding guests wouldn't cough up a grand each so she could have her dream wedding. Chris basically says that he planned out a bunch of shit for CitizenCon, estimated the additional cost at "low six figures", didn't want to use the money they already have because that's "development money", so rather than making plans for the budget they actually have instead he figured the backers wouldn't mind if he shook them down for more money.

Not explained: Why the fuck there have been six annual conventions now for a game nowhere near release.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on September 01, 2018, 04:49:20 PM
It gets even better, in the apology letter Roberts calls out some of them as pitchfork wielders and condescendingly tells them he is going to explain what they couldn't think of of their own.

It was like that woman on twitter that someone linked to on Discord recently that was pissed that her wedding guests wouldn't cough up a grand each so she could have her dream wedding. Chris basically says that he planned out a bunch of shit for CitizenCon, estimated the additional cost at "low six figures", didn't want to use the money they already have because that's "development money", so rather than making plans for the budget they actually have instead he figured the backers wouldn't mind if he shook them down for more money.

Not explained: Why the fuck there have been six annual conventions now for a game nowhere near release.


Don't forget the 6month reality tv style contest where people compete to introduce their own spaceship, which Roberts and co abandoned 2 years later.

I still don't get why they did it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on September 05, 2018, 09:12:05 PM
lum works for

checks notes

cloud imperium games


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on September 06, 2018, 03:37:09 AM
Wait, really?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ironwood on September 06, 2018, 03:58:58 AM
What happened to the Ultima gig ?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on September 06, 2018, 04:05:16 AM
Hope he's at least getting some of the hookers and blow that all that money has been spent on.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Comstar on September 06, 2018, 04:18:32 AM
lum works for

checks notes

cloud imperium games

I can only assume as super deep cover to write a screenplay and book deal later.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on September 06, 2018, 05:21:31 AM
lum works for

checks notes

cloud imperium games

I can only assume as super deep cover to write a screenplay and book deal later.

This is like Q nonsense, but for videogames.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Der Helm on September 06, 2018, 05:42:29 AM
Only difference is that Cloud Imperium has a bigger cash reserve than your multi ultra billionaire president.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on September 06, 2018, 06:35:28 AM
I mean, to be fair, if I wasn’t currently working a profession well respected job with amazing lifestyle, I’d totally go work for them if they offered me decent wages.  Vampire the fuck out of every stupid perk they have while doing by as little work as possible.  Snort that sweet sweet idiot money until fired or it finally collapses.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on September 06, 2018, 07:45:41 AM
Every single person here would go suck on those giant whale teats if the opportunity presented itself.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on September 06, 2018, 07:49:28 AM
I'd do it without even hesitating. And I'd keep one hell of a diary while I was doing it to "blow the lid" when the enevitable implosion happens, in order to make more moolah from the book.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on September 06, 2018, 07:53:57 AM
When I left Wargaming in 2016, CIG offered me a job in Frankfurt, I turned it down to go to Slovakia for less money* instead.

*'Less money' actually turned out to be 'no money' as it happened..


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: WayAbvPar on September 06, 2018, 08:41:34 AM
You can live like a king in Slovakia for that  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on September 06, 2018, 08:41:46 AM
Yes, I mean, I make that joke comment above not actually working in the industry.  If it was just me now as a general computer tech/person getting a job offer to do whatever from them, sure, lets burn shit down together.  If I actually had a career in game development and cared about continuing to have a career in game development, then things would be different.

Edit:  Also, Slovakia is pretty damn nice.  There are far worst places to not be paid for work.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Phildo on September 06, 2018, 10:05:44 AM
I imagine a lot of the individual employees find the work fulfilling.  There are teams of artists and developers that spend all their time making really cool spaceships and an expansive universe to fly them around in.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on September 06, 2018, 12:24:08 PM
Slovakia is indeed nice and they have real money.  Unlike Hungary, which is only nice. :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Zetor on September 06, 2018, 02:42:33 PM
Slovakia is indeed nice and they have real money.  Unlike Hungary, which is only nice. :oh_i_see:
Them's fighting words...

... Hungary is not 'nice' by any definition.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on September 06, 2018, 09:08:38 PM
The number of people who will find themselves unemployable after working on a shit/unreleased game is very small. if you're a random codemonkey or an animator, or a 3d artist or a content designer or whatever, you'll be fine because everyone understands that the game you worked on didn't fail because the animations were bad or because the asset batcher was a bit clunky. The worst that happens is that you end up like me, not having worked on a game that actually released since 2015. You go to an interview and people ask about your recent projects and you have to say, "well they were cancelled so I can't tell you too much about them."

I turned down CIG because I'd have been a small part of a big machine. After leading my own project at Wargaming, I didn't want to go back to that, and Perihelion offered me a more senior role with a lot more creative control over the direction of the project.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on September 06, 2018, 10:16:27 PM
There are times when morality should supercede desire to work in gaming.

Chances are high Star Citizen never releases in the form promised. With the money they have and time they've spent, they should have released five AAA(AAAAAA) games by now.

I am intimately familiar with doing a job to put food on the table, but being party to one of the most absurd (incredibly likely) scams in the history of gaming is a bridge too far. I would take a job on Duke Nukem Forever 2 before Star Citizen.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on September 07, 2018, 01:35:05 AM
On the flip side, it feels morally correct to do anything that transfers wealth away from Christ Roberts (to myself).   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on September 07, 2018, 07:09:51 AM
Morals only ever kept me from succeeding.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on September 07, 2018, 08:05:06 AM
without morals i'd be a right wing demigod and they'd be building statues of me

like if you're gonna do something morally bankrupt, go all the way


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Yegolev on September 07, 2018, 12:28:06 PM
I do have them, but not an excess, which explains my mediocre success.

Whether I'd work on this game or not would depend very much on the money and total compensation, but I'm really happy with how IBM is treating me so it would have to be a LOT of money.

Though it seems like I could get a job for Roberts and just phone it in part time for a month or three.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: justdave on September 07, 2018, 09:06:28 PM
Or at least five years, by the looks of things.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: satael on November 18, 2018, 12:03:32 AM
..and this just passed the $200m mark (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals). Maybve one day it will go from alpha to beta too.  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: patience on December 21, 2018, 09:33:54 AM
*coughs*
(https://cloudimperiumgames.com/uploads/0253570a96344fccbc94519888ff9f09.png)


(https://cloudimperiumgames.com/uploads/fb3a23ed691049c085fc369a4cfe7e70.png)

It's safe to say now my previous estimates was on the mark.

Amazing that they got someone to buy 10% shares. The potential return on investment seems like it won't work out considering the current state of the game.

They also now have a web page that directly sources their project management software so you can follow their roadmap changes.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/roadmap/board/2-Squadron-42


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on December 21, 2018, 09:37:44 AM
After $200 million in crowdfunding, why the fuck would they need to get another $46 million in money from investors?

I realize the answer is obvious, but the more relevant question is who are these idiot investors and can I have their number?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Soulflame on December 21, 2018, 11:41:32 AM
Money laundering?

Tax evasion?

Outright fraud?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Abagadro on December 24, 2018, 09:16:52 PM
Some dipshit failson in South Africa convinced his music-mogul, billionaire dad to pony up 50M apparently.  Gotta love the valuation of a studio that hasn't released anything, has no real income stream beyond fleecing autists, and is run by a historic failure, at half a billion dollars.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: koro on January 25, 2019, 08:24:18 AM
https://www.pcgamer.com/star-citizen-has-cost-nearly-dollar200-million-so-far/


Eight years of dev time and nearly $200 million later, we may possibly maybe see a beta some time this year. Maybe.

$4 million a month in costs is ludicrous.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: 01101010 on January 25, 2019, 08:32:17 AM
Quantum PCs will be common place by the time this goes to beta.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on January 25, 2019, 01:44:28 PM
https://www.pcgamer.com/star-citizen-has-cost-nearly-dollar200-million-so-far/


Eight years of dev time and nearly $200 million later, we may possibly maybe see a beta some time this year. Maybe.

$4 million a month in costs is ludicrous.

lol


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Setanta on January 25, 2019, 03:26:53 PM
Quantum PCs will be common place by the time this goes to beta.  :why_so_serious:

Sounds like a good excuse for RSI to change the game engine... again.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on January 26, 2019, 04:26:36 AM
They made a movie (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ0KNVU2fV0) on Netflix about this. Mark Hamill is played by Ja Rule.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tale on May 02, 2019, 04:47:44 AM
Free to Play for a week, May 1-8.
 (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/promotions/35-Free-Fly)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lesion on May 02, 2019, 05:39:59 AM
jesus christ

the fucking installer

BritizenCon? development subscribers? weekly development update show? serialized fucking fiction?!  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on May 02, 2019, 06:01:20 AM
Free to Play for a week, May 1-8.
 (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/promotions/35-Free-Fly)


(https://lumiere-a.akamaihd.net/v1/images/databank_ackbar_01_169_55137220.jpeg?region=0%2C0%2C1560%2C878&width=960)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on May 02, 2019, 09:52:19 AM
God, I'm so tempted to download this just to shit on it, but really, ain't nobody got time for that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: 01101010 on May 02, 2019, 12:35:43 PM
I can't even imagine all the 'other' things that would get put on your machine. But that aside, I'm assuming they are trying to cast a wider net for the fish to give them more money for this fever dream?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on May 02, 2019, 12:51:40 PM
Buying an asteroid doesn't pay for itself.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Soln on May 02, 2019, 04:15:28 PM
Crypto miner installed  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lesion on May 02, 2019, 05:25:23 PM
5 minute impressions (super sciencey, watch out):

- spacebiff is amazing because in the future we all walk at the speed of retarded babies but sprint normally, and due to space every sound is muffled until you die instantly to CoD-like TTK
- loadout is kept by some very pissed-off troll UX designer (DA YA LIKE SCROLLIN' AND TABS)
- you can interact with some junk in person-station-walk-mode! and then it clips to the back of your hand and falls through the floor. I am immersed in stars
- the only ship I can find after exiting the overblown copy-paste station interior has no obvious way to get in, but there is someone opening and closing a high-up bay door I can't reach because of my retarded baby legs. you bitch
- I bought a helmet and a jumper and ran out of money
- fuck this pile of shit

edit: I didn't read any instructions because this isn't fucking Battlecruiser 3000AD


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on May 02, 2019, 08:56:24 PM
thank you for your service


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tale on May 02, 2019, 09:50:58 PM
Can you feel the $250,000,000 investment? :) Also, I very much want someone from the Elite Dangerous thread to try this and compare.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: 01101010 on May 03, 2019, 03:33:16 AM
Can you feel the $250,000,000 investment? :) Also, I very much want someone from the Elite Dangerous thread to try this and compare.




1...2...3... NOT IT!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on May 03, 2019, 04:27:56 AM
I only ever played Elite in VR, so darn it, wouldn't be a fair comparison.

Also, I would rather have someone hack my bank account.  That seems like a safer way to get ripped off.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Count Nerfedalot on May 03, 2019, 10:04:37 AM
I'll pass. But I've got an out-of-state friend who was a first round Kickstarter for SC. I'll be meeting up with him in July, so maybe we can do side-by-side comparisons then!  :why_so_serious:

Hm, I wonder if my laptop can handle E:D. It's a beast and does fine with the likes of Ark, but it's no 1080 GPU. And Elite makes my desktop whine. Runs it fine, but complains about it, lazy thing! I'd almost forgotten it had fans until I started playing Elite.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on May 04, 2019, 01:26:22 PM
Quote
On a summer Saturday in 2007, a trespasser slipped by a security gate and entered Chris Roberts’ L.A. home. Inside, Madison Peterson, Roberts’ former common-law wife, with whom he had a long on-and-off relationship, was startled and feared her young daughter could be harmed or kidnapped. Peterson later identified the trespasser as Sandi Gardiner, who is now Roberts’ wife (for the second time) and a cofounder of Cloud Imperium. Roberts reported the incident to police, and a California judge issued a temporary restraining order that required Gardiner to stay 100 yards away from Peterson, who claimed in her temporary restraining order application that Gardiner had been stalking and threatening both her and her daughter for nearly three years.
“Ms. Gardiner has an unnatural and irrational fascination with my daughter and me,” Peterson wrote. “I constantly and continually look to make sure my daughter and I are not watched.”  
In a court-filed declaration he signed at the time, Roberts said Gardiner had also visited Peterson’s San Diego home and once became violent and tried to strangle him. “I believed that if she had a gun she would have killed me,” Roberts said in the declaration. “I believe that Ms. Gardiner is not emotionally stable.” After three months, the restraining order was dissolved. Today, Roberts says he cannot recall signing the declaration and that what is ascribed to him in the court filings was prepared by Peterson and false. Despite the documentation, Gardiner flatly denies the incidents took place.

A few years later, Roberts cofounded Cloud Imperium with Gardiner [...]

EDIT: Admittedly, it could have been a false and it doesn't say anything about Star Citizen.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Malakili on May 04, 2019, 03:27:31 PM
I like that the free week is called "fly free" and not "play free" because there is no game yet.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lesion on May 04, 2019, 03:43:34 PM
Quote from: Chris Roberts
Star Citizen is a playable game. It has more functionality and content than a lot of finished games.
:-)

It's like golf, see. Only even cheaper because you only need to spend $45. That and the clubs are brittle sticks, the ball is a hummingbird you need to catch and throw to the ground with enough force to be fatal, and you're in a barren field. But don't worry, 'cause the hole is just past the fairway. You'll see. You'll all see.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tale on May 04, 2019, 05:01:30 PM
I do not see a link to the major Forbes article that people are quoting from, so here is one (https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2019/05/01/exclusive-the-saga-of-star-citizen-a-video-game-that-raised-300-millionbut-may-never-be-ready-to-play/).


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cadaverine on May 05, 2019, 07:13:01 PM
Can you feel the $250,000,000 investment? :) Also, I very much want someone from the Elite Dangerous thread to try this and compare.

There's nothing to compare.  ED works, and is playable.  Star Citizen is...  I don't even know how to describe it.  The launcher took forever to load, so I could launch the game.  The game took another handful of minutes to launch.  Once in the game, it was just sad.  as lesion said, the UI is a fucking catastrophe.  The graphics were un-optimized, and not good.  Everything looked like it was vibrating subtley.  When I picked things up, it was held by the back of my hand.  Walking was slow as shit, but running was at 'normal' speed.  You supposedly have to watch your heart rate, but from what I could see, it didn't change much.  That is, until I got outside of the station and tried to run around, at which point it went up to 120 bpm, at which point I got some sort of warning that my heart rate was too high, so apparently my character is 85 or so.  Then it began randomly jumping around.  Didn't seem to have any effect.

Couldn't find a ship, but frankly I couldn't be arsed to care after less than 2 minutes in the game.  A game that took about 10 minutes to actually launch.

My favorite part was when I looked down at myself, and for whatever reason, I had what appeared to be gas venting out of my body at various points.  No idea what the hell was up with that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on May 06, 2019, 04:29:52 AM
I...uh...what the fuck? :uhrr: :ye_gods:

Why do you start a space sim walking around in first (third?) person mode? Why do you not start in a spaceship?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on May 06, 2019, 08:15:32 AM
I...uh...what the fuck? :uhrr: :ye_gods:

Why do you start a space sim walking around in first (third?) person mode? Why do you not start in a spaceship?

ARE YOU BORN ON A SPACE SHIP? REALITY, MAN, YOU HAVE TO WALK TO YOUR SHIP OR ELSE IT ISN'T REAL!!!!

Says the dickhead who paid over $1000 for a fictional space ship made of 1's and 0's.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on May 06, 2019, 08:25:23 AM
Really, one should start as a caveperson, learning first how to tame the elements and smelt space-ready metals.  Plus invent rocketfuel and toilets that can flush in zero gravity.  Can´t have it all handed to you on a fucking platter.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mandella on May 06, 2019, 09:59:28 AM
Okay guys, starting as the pilot would be just fine. It would allow you to identify as a human in a ship, not just the ship. You could pick out your vessel in human mode, maybe even be able to walk around and examine the ships you are choosing from in first/third person mode, giving you a better feel for the scale and "reality" of said vessels.

That would be totally fun.

The problem is the whole damn thing sounds broken. Something like 200 million and it's not even a good walking sim.

*That's* the issue.

Also I would totally play that caveman to astronaut game......


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: ajax34i on May 06, 2019, 07:56:26 PM
I think you should start in the bathroom, taking a piss, and THEN "return" to your starship.  Then get a flashback of how you acquired said spaceship, which can be in the form of a tutorial.  But of course not be able to finish the flashback / tutorial because suddenly your thoughts are interrupted by combat / a pirate attack.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ard on May 06, 2019, 08:11:16 PM
Caveman to rockets is literally a few minecraft modpacks.  I’m not even exaggerating.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mandella on May 06, 2019, 10:18:12 PM
Caveman to rockets is literally a few minecraft modpacks.  I’m not even exaggerating.

You can also sorta do that in Kerbal Space Program (with mods). You can start with sounding rockets or primitive aircraft and advance yourself to interstellar vessels and colonies.

It's actually pretty fun, if you get into that sort of sim.

Which brings me back around to the problem with Star Citizen that I see. It doesn't work. It doesn't matter what the design intention is if it doesn't work.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Jeff Kelly on May 07, 2019, 01:35:55 AM
Really, one should start as a caveperson, learning first how to tame the elements and smelt space-ready metals.  Plus invent rocketfuel and toilets that can flush in zero gravity.  Can´t have it all handed to you on a fucking platter.

No Man's Star Citizen?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: 5150 on May 07, 2019, 04:24:55 AM
Hm, I wonder if my laptop can handle E:D. It's a beast and does fine with the likes of Ark, but it's no 1080 GPU. And Elite makes my desktop whine. Runs it fine, but complains about it, lazy thing! I'd almost forgotten it had fans until I started playing Elite.

My PC runs E:D without issue but has to run Ark on potatoe graphics to get it playable so it sounds like you should be ok.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lesion on May 07, 2019, 05:47:07 AM
I think you should start in the bathroom, taking a piss, and THEN "return" to your starship.  Then get a flashback of how you acquired said spaceship, which can be in the form of a tutorial.  But of course not be able to finish the flashback / tutorial because suddenly your thoughts are interrupted by combat / a pirate attack.
That already sounds so much better than this alpha demo.

Also, further reading revealed that the mouse wheel modifies walking speed and/or 'B' switches from babywalk to jog. While I'm incredibly drawn to reinstall and have another sip from the cup of everlasting artistry that is Star Citizen I must fight the temptation. woe.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on May 07, 2019, 07:16:22 AM
Also, further reading revealed that the mouse wheel modifies walking speed and/or 'B' switches from babywalk to jog.

LOLWUT?  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on May 07, 2019, 08:26:38 AM
Is that feature for those 'roleplayers' who like to slowly walk across the map in mmo?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Count Nerfedalot on May 07, 2019, 10:13:56 AM
Did they crib that from WWII Online?  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tale on October 28, 2019, 10:07:32 PM
This made me laugh a lot. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_I088pIQ3M)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 29, 2019, 05:30:49 AM
imma just jam spore and star citizen together until your space pilot has to start out as a unicellular organism


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on October 29, 2019, 05:40:42 AM
lol the fuck was that.  After 7 years.  Is it still fair to assume there are rabid supporters of this mess?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on October 29, 2019, 09:54:27 AM
Oh yeah.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on October 29, 2019, 11:18:16 AM
Maybe there's just a bad space meth problem there.

In the game, too.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Setanta on October 29, 2019, 12:51:05 PM
Free weekend this weekend apparently. Might be worthwhile checking out what a mess it is in.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on October 29, 2019, 12:57:27 PM
no


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 29, 2019, 06:15:09 PM
Free weekend this weekend apparently. Might be worthwhile checking out what a mess it is in.

if u never play, every weekend is free weekend


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on October 30, 2019, 06:31:07 AM
Free weekend this weekend apparently. Might be worthwhile checking out what a mess it is in.

if u never play, every weekend is free weekend
blackguypointingatforehead.jpg


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on February 10, 2020, 01:26:11 PM
ngl the tech looks cool af

Digital Foundry is looking at some of SC's tech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqXZhnrkBdo

I'm still hopeful for this title while not spending any earth dollars on it until it's done  :pedobear:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tale on February 10, 2020, 01:51:16 PM
But is it fun?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Abagadro on February 10, 2020, 11:17:09 PM
Heh, they can built a planet but only put like 15 people on it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on February 11, 2020, 12:00:45 AM
And probably half those people are doing the sideways moonwalk or clipping through the each other while several others spin around for no reason.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on February 13, 2020, 03:30:11 PM
[rolls into the thread]

hey whats up my dudes it's your host sammy boy for the 5,243rd live hosted podcast running up to the star citizen release. there is no god and no end to this maddening hell. please someone else start and finish an entire space sim in the span of 2 CIG content releases and free us from this tormented limbo


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tale on February 13, 2020, 08:17:01 PM
[rolls into the thread]

hey whats up my dudes it's your host sammy boy for the 5,243rd live hosted podcast running up to the star citizen release. there is no god and no end to this maddening hell. please someone else start and finish an entire space sim in the span of 2 CIG content releases and free us from this tormented limbo

To quote the Awesome Pictures Thread....

(https://sun9-3.userapi.com/c856028/v856028278/1a369d/84-eoSkaJFo.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on February 24, 2020, 08:29:55 AM
Some more tech stuff in the Digital Foundry series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUFcerTa6Ho

Always good to see technology being pushed forward. Now back to your regularly scheduled lazy pot-shots at CIG, because we forgot the 'useful' part of cynical commentary.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on February 24, 2020, 10:55:09 AM
Yes, they made some tech, well done. Mind you the Digital Foundry guy that makes those videos is a long time Star Citizen backer (one of the most vocal on NeoGaf before people split for ResetEra) who from what I've seen doesn't mention in his videos that he's put money into the game, and seems to show the tech in the best possible light rather than show how the game actually functions in the real world.

I mean, if you want to hear useful commentary on the problems with this game I could point to the Squadron 42 Roadmap CIG puts out each week which has shown almost zero progress in the last 6 months despite the fact that they were saying it was supposed to go into Beta this year. Or we could take a look at the Persistent Universe roadmaps and see how most of the actual gameplay loops keeps getting pushed back, while they work on stuff like a space prison you can escape from (because that's why people were investing money in a space sim).

But really anyone who has paid even casual attention to this thing knows development has been a train wreck so I'm not sure what kind of useful commentary you want on why after 8 years this game is still a mess.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on February 25, 2020, 02:35:42 AM
Even if they could wave a magic wand and this was suddenly 100% finished according to all of their insane plans tomorrow....I still wouldn't play it.  That ship sailed like 5 years ago.  I imagine that is true to the majority of their potential market, probably even lots of the imbeciles who bought some of their pixelized space art.

LOL 8 years.  Maybe they should just make an Escape the Space Prison game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pagz on August 30, 2020, 05:17:21 AM
So um, how is this going?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on August 30, 2020, 10:46:58 AM
Looked at thr Reddit to see what the fanatics are saying, found this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/ijg6lc/revisiting_star_citizen_an_experience/

Quote
Revisiting Star Citizen: An Experience
DISCUSSION

My friends and I checked back in over this weekend to see where Star Citizen stands.

I have a Constellation Andromeda, my friends have a 325 and a Avenger Stalker.

We found that the partying and chat system is much improved, and seemed to work more or less the whole time.

Both of my friends who were on fresh installs of the game had big performance issues on any graphics settings, ~25-35 fps on Hurston at the space port.

Their specs: i5 9700k & 1080ti, one at 2560x1440 and the other at 3440x1440

I get a solid 45 in the same location, usually 50-70 in space.

my specs: i7 6950x SLI Titan X Pascal 64 GB ram

We encountered a slew of awful bugs that made the game impossible to play. Here's the major ones:


    Ship got stuck to surface of planet while refining SLAM for quest, like gravity was turned to 999999 or something.

    Ship took damage that was unable to be repaired at Hurston, unable to claim. Destroyed ship in hanger to get claim prompt but now I cant repair or claim, only spawn a busted hulk of a ship at any spaceport in Stanton.

    Helmet got iced over on the surface of a planet, now its permenantly iced over even after cycling it through inventory, wiping the facemask, restarting, SELLING AND REBUYING IT LOL

    Haunted doors in my Connie constantly cockblocking me from moving around

    Died with SLAM item on me, it was teleported into the structure of grim hex, could not be retrieved, had to abandon quest

    HUD on ship stuck in atmosphere mode with nose attitude tape etc even in quantum jump mode or inside mobiglass

    buggy equipment and ship outfitting app in mobiglass, mostly just rage magnet

    placing unrefined SLAM on its intended location doesnt progress the mission, must abandon and restart

    missiles were randomly functional or non functional, couldnt figure out why

    lighting and particle effects are all kinda messed up, lots of flashing textures and blinking dust/gas clouds

    NPC are are so bad its unclear why they are in the game in this state at all, probably just destroying server and client performance being all bugged etc

All in all, it was barely fun, kinda cool, and seriously disappointing. Ive been a backer since KS so we log back in every now and again to see where the state of the game is.

Seems legit for 8 years development with meeeelions.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Kail on August 30, 2020, 01:30:29 PM
Seems legit for 8 years development with meeeelions.

And even that is understating it a bit.

Star Citizen has currently raised over $310,000,000.  So, the highest game development budget.  Of any game. (https://www.kitguru.net/desktop-pc/mustafa-mahmoud/star-citizen-becomes-most-expensive-video-game-ever/)

Ever.

Development budget for Grand Theft Auto 5 was something like $250 million, Modern Warfare 2 was just under $300 million, Star Wars: The Old Republic was somewhere in the $200 million range.

The original Kickstarter for Star Citizen was in April, 2013.  That's before the XBox One and Playstation 4 launched; it was around the release of games like Far Cry 3 and Bioshock: Infinite.  Warhammer: Online was stll a thing.  Star Citizen is still in Alpha and has no release date.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on August 30, 2020, 06:08:34 PM
So um, how is this going?  :why_so_serious:

Back when they still had a road map for Squadron 42, it listed Beta as Q2 of this year I think. At some point the weekly road maps were barely showing progress so they more or less said "hey this isn't actually representative of what's being worked on, we'll stop doing S42 road maps for now and come up with an updated way to do them". Then like they do, they went radio silent for months. At one point they said they were going to release a little update video the next day, then canceled that, said they needed to rework the video a bit, and went radio silent again. They eventually posted months after that that they still didn't have the new road map ready but basically had a road map for the steps needed to get their new road map for S42 ready. At some point they also mentioned that Covid had set their progress on S42 back by maybe 3 months. Now if you're doing the math correctly that would mean they should have it ready for a (presumably internal) beta right around now and yet they're still talking about a weeks or months long process of putting together a new road map for it.

In other words, things are going as they always have.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on August 30, 2020, 08:20:28 PM
No joke--we've talked on this before--I think this whole thing was a complicated dress rehearsal for the present political/social moment. "Would people give lots and lots of money for an impossible dream idea to people where there is plenty of reason to think they can't achieve it and then be so deep into the dream that they will not back off or feel bitter even if there's every reason in the world for them to think they've been cheated?"

No? Really? Great, it's safe to go forward with our political plans. Damn! I didn't think that would work as much as it did!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on August 30, 2020, 10:38:46 PM
You all seem to be deliberately glossing over the part where they have chat working essentially most of the time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Abagadro on August 30, 2020, 11:13:02 PM
Quote
Star Citizen has currently raised over $310,000,000.

They SAY they have raised that much. I have a hard time believing that it is true.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Kageru on August 31, 2020, 03:12:54 AM

At this point I would almost be sad if this launched, it's amazing as a piece of conceptual art about human nature and the limits thereof.

... then again, it's not my money that paid for it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ashamanchill on September 01, 2020, 06:05:36 PM
When do they turn the 'taking the piss' throttle up to 11 and release a Springtime for Hitler expansion pack, with a Bialystock class ship on sale for 2000 bucks?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on September 02, 2020, 11:30:41 AM
Maybe they should release it as Battlecruiser 311,000,000.  :why_so_serious:

Really, they should shove Roberts into a badded cell somewhere out of site, Hire some asshole managers that have everyone hating their asses but will get product in the can on time and on budget. Shove most of the crazy features as "in the next expansion" and kick out the bits of it they know they can make work as a final release

I'd also like my Pony farting Rainbows and crapping Ice Cream, thank you.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on September 03, 2020, 05:30:35 AM
Wouldn't the most delicious thing in the world be an announcement that they're hiring D S to help finish the development?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on September 03, 2020, 07:59:33 AM
Maybe they should release it as Battlecruiser 311,000,000.  :why_so_serious:

Really, they should shove Roberts into a badded cell somewhere out of site, Hire some asshole managers that have everyone hating their asses but will get product in the can on time and on budget. Shove most of the crazy features as "in the next expansion" and kick out the bits of it they know they can make work as a final release

I'd also like my Pony farting Rainbows and crapping Ice Cream, thank you.
If they release a game, they can't keep grifting forever.

Wouldn't the most delicious thing in the world be an announcement that they're hiring D S to help finish the development?

I thought he tried suing them over something?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Chimpy on September 03, 2020, 08:45:03 PM

At this point I would almost be sad if this launched, it's amazing as a piece of conceptual art about human nature and the limits thereof.

... then again, it's not my money that paid for it.

Just think if crowdfunding existed when Daikatana was being "created".  :drillf:



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on September 06, 2020, 12:23:17 PM
So um, how is this going?  :why_so_serious:

lmao this thread started in 2012 and we just have to ask


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on September 07, 2020, 02:55:53 PM
So um, how is this going?  :why_so_serious:

lmao this thread started in 2012 and we just have to ask
Emblematic of our times, the game we deserve.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tale on September 09, 2020, 01:16:10 AM
So um, how is this going?  :why_so_serious:

lmao this thread started in 2012 and we just have to ask

I notice Kotaku recently recycled an article from 2016 (https://www.kotaku.co.uk/2020/09/07/inside-the-troubled-development-of-star-citizen) about "the troubled development of Star Citizen", dated it 7 September 2020, and didn't need to rewrite it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on September 09, 2020, 07:20:55 PM
Star Citizen is going to be doing some kind of Fly Free weekend, letting people who haven't bought the game play for free.

Why though?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on September 09, 2020, 07:24:59 PM
They need more suckers?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on September 10, 2020, 05:01:37 AM
Is there a functional game to play?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on September 10, 2020, 05:49:21 AM
Is there a functional game to play?
The core gameplay loop of "Insert Credit Card Number, Receive JPEG of Spaceship" has been working great for years.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on September 10, 2020, 08:35:39 AM
Space X has developed and flown real manned aircraft in space in the time this game has been in development.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on September 12, 2020, 01:09:30 PM
Chris Roberts responded twice today in a thread where someone was wondering why a game system shown four years ago isn't finished and fully implemented in the game yet. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/atmospheric-room-system-4-years-later) I think this is also one of the few, if possibly the only time he's been heard from in almost a year.

Quote
The Room System has been in the game for quite a while and fully works including equalization of gases / atmosphere between room volumes (including dissipation into the global room aka open space / vacuum)

When you suffocate for lack of oxygen that is because you are in a "room" with not enough oxygen.

The Room System is basically how the game describes volumes of gas, their pressure, density and temperature so a planet has a room (it's atmosphere) a ship has rooms (various compartments between bulkheads), even "The Coil" in Squadron 42 has it's volume described by a "room".

We use it for the Player Status System (breathing oxygen), for atmospheric flight (the room system contains all the information in terms of density and composition of the atmosphere in terms of gasses that flight model uses to calculate drag and lift), weather (some of the current weather ground FX are partly influenced by the room's temperature, density and even composition of gasses in the atmosphere), contrails (in atmosphere and in space gas clouds) and atmospheric entry effects on ships.

So the Room System is very important for a lot of systems and has been been in Star Citizen for years.

What @MGibson-cig was saying and may have been lost in translation as you don't know our internal terms is that rooms can have two states; mutable and immutable. Mutable means that the room has a finite amount of density / pressure / gasses which can pass to another room if it is connected to it and there is a difference in pressure. So if you open an door to space from your Aurora if the internal room is set to mutable the atmosphere inside will escape outside. Immutable means the room has what is considered an infinite amount of gas and it's pressure won't change. Planet Atmospheres are immutable rooms, as is the vacuum of space. When we first set up rooms on the vehicles we didn't have the life support component (and it's related vents) implemented yet so we had no way to supply more oxygen to a room that had lost it, so the designers set the ship rooms to immutable (infinite supply of oxygen basically) as a temporary measure because otherwise if you opened your door in space you would lose your internal breathable atmosphere and suffocate if you didn't have a space suit on. All ships have rooms, and in fact why people occasionally suffocate on a ship in some places is because the room volume hasn't been set up correctly and there is some part of the ship without a room, and without a room there is no atmosphere and the game treats everything outside a room as vacuum.

We have the initial implementation of life support components and their connected vents working internally but rolling it out for the ships will take a while as we need to literally "plumb" the ships with a set of extra components, not just the life support component but all it's vents. We have a few other systemic ship features like more interactive cockpits (DCS style) we've been working on, as well as the dynamic fire system (which also uses and affects the room / atmosphere) and an update to the "pipe" system that shares resources like power, heat, fuel, atmosphere between components that will be more flexible and scalable so it's really a matter of scheduling when we do passes on our huge number of ships to set them up for the new systems that are waiting and the ones to be ready soon; As everyone always has more work than time it is going to be more efficient to update multiple things once we crack open a ship to update it, hence some of the functionality we have waiting in the wings hasn't been rolled out just yet.

There is a lot of very cool systemic gameplay that we've been working to finish off in the background for ships that once all together will create a spaceship simulation like no other. Let me give you an example that factors in our new physical damage (that we are working on as I type; this is one of things that I'm pretty involved in), fire, room, pipe and player status systems.

A ballistic round passes through the ship's shield, which scrubs off some of its kinetic energy but not enough as the round's velocity was high as was its mass as it was an armor piercing round. It manages to penetrate the armor and strikes an internal component, say a power relay node (something else we are working on as part of the pipe system refactor). The power node takes damage giving it a chance to "misfire" while in use. A few minutes later the node does misfire, blowing its fuse and resulting in it catching fire. The crew of the ship doesn't realize a fire has broken out in one of the side corridors, as they are busily concentrating on fighting the ships attacking them. The fire starts to spread along flammable surfaces, and as the fire starts to engulf other components they also catch fire. The engineer on the bridge of the ship sees his console flash red giving him a warning that several components have failed and looking at his ships schematic he sees a fire has broken out below decks. The engineer decides to seal the bulkhead doors on the corridor to contain the fire but the doors have no power as the power node is out! He comms one of his crew mates to leave his turret and grab an extinguisher and put out the blaze which is slowly creeping towards the power plant room. Fire reaching a ship's power plant or it's ammo stores are two sure fire ways for your ship to go boom. With the physical damage system ships will no longer just explode when their hit points reach zero, they'll explode because something inside them went critical and exploded (due to damage or heat), which then damages everything else. Outside of that damage will affect the ability of the ship to function or it's structural integrity so they also could become a lifeless hulk as much as they could go up in a flash of light. When the crew member gets to the corridor where the fire has broken out is has already consumed a huge amount of oxygen in that "room" (the corridor) and has released noxious gasses, so the crew member can't breathe and quickly retreats to put on a fire resistant suit and helmet. The engineer in desperation manages to reroute power away from the destroyed node through a secondary node restoring power to enough of the bulkhead doors to allow him to contain the fire. Noticing that there is an external airlock in the sealed off area he opens the airlock, venting the oxygen in the sealed off corridors and rooms to the vacuum of space, depriving the fire of the ability to burn, putting most of it out. By this time the crew member is suitably dressed and can extinguish the fire that made it past the bulkhead door before it can grow again. The engineer then reseals the airlock and allows the life support system to replenish the air in the vented part of the ship. Once done the engineer opens up the bulkhead door allowing the crewmember in with a replacement fuse for the power node, restoring power to that section of the ship, then returns to his turret. It's been a close call but the ship is still alive and in the fight!

What I describe will be possible once we have finished and deployed the systems we're working on. I know it can be frustrating to wait for all of this functionality to be online but I promise you everyone is working as hard and as smartly as possible to get there; we are just going for a higher level of systemic gameplay (versus scripted) than most if not all games, and to architect all of this so it works in multiplayer at scale is no small feat.

I am very invested in making Star Citizen's gameplay as systemic as possible as I think this will open up so many possibilities of emergent and immersive gameplay. The downside of this approach is that it takes longer to see results as opposed to scripting actions as you have to build the fundamental systems first and have them interact with each other before the full extent of the gameplay becomes apparent. But for the long term, and for people's ability to lose themselves in the universe of Star Citizen for many years to come it is the approach that will have the best results.

The OP Responded:

Quote
Chris, it's just the same old same old, I didn't even want to reply, but here we go:
-we are working on it
-we know how frustrating it feels
-we have this already in game but tech X is missing
-Chris continuing describing in detail how the system is suppose to work one fine day

I don't even want that much detail in the damage model, I am perfectly fine with a damage model/room system that looks fine at first glance.

In 8 years CIG has not even achieved that, lots of basic mechanics are still missing and what we have is amateurish at best.

What you, Chris, describe in your comment would take at the very least take another 10-20 years.

That's is the problem, ignoring the basics, using amateurish mechanic placeholders, talking about how Grand the game will be, but you will never be able to deliver so much detail (which we don't need, make it believable at first glance, done) unless you get 4 times as many people.

I will surely check again in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... years and I am sure we will hear the same excuses.


And finally, Chris' response to that:

Quote
I wouldn't normally do this but I know you've invested a lot of time into Star Citizen, including on the testing and community content creation so I'm going to take your reply to as a sign of frustration and try to add a little more context to help you see a bigger picture.

What were you hoping to get from your Original Post? I was assuming it was -
I was wondering where we are almost 4 years later, tested a few things and made a video.

I shared information on where we are, and why you don't see something you thought you should. Part of my motivation for answering is that I commonly see people assume things that aren't true like the room system not being in the game because one aspect of the system doesn't have the behavior that they think it should. I wanted to give you extra context and information so you (and others in this thread) had a better understanding of what is in, what isn't and why it isn't and what is left to do.

If you want to encourage me or other developers to answer questions then it helps to not turn around and question people's professionalism or make sweeping statements. If someone did that to you in your job I am sure it would be irritating. I have a thicker skin than most of the developers at CIG, and realize that not everyone is speaking in their first language or realizes how they phrased things may not have been the best, but in general it is best to approach things with constructive criticism, leaving the ad hominems out. You wouldn't be putting this much time into something if you didn't care, so why put energy into posting something that a developer will dismiss because it feels like an attack? I can tell you that being considerate of someone and treating them with respect will get you much further than than being dismissive. The development team reads these forums and other places like reddit, and the community's feedback really helps, but the feedback that gets actioned on, that gets passed around internally and is discussed is the constructive type, not the overly negative type. Just saying something sucks isn't helpful. Explaining why it sucks for that user, and their ideas to potentially rectify it is helpful.

My biggest disappointment with modern internet discourse is that there's a significant amount of cynicism, especially in forum or reddit debates, and a portion of people assume the worst. If a feature is missing, late or buggy it's because the company or the developer lied and or / is incompetent as opposed to the fact that it just took longer and had more problems than the team thought it would when they originally set out to build it. Developers by their very nature are optimistic. You have to be to build things that haven't ever been built before. Otherwise the sheer weight of what is needed to be done can crush you. But being optimistic or not foreseeing issues isn't the same as lying or deliberately misleading people. Everyone at CIG is incredibly passionate about making Star Citizen the most immersive massively multiplayer first person universe sandbox, and everyone works very hard to deliver that. If we could deliver harder, faster, better we would. We get just as frustrated with the time things take. We practice bottom up task estimation where the team implementing the feature breaks it down and gives their estimates of how long it will take them. Management doesn't dictate timelines, we just set priorities for the teams as there are always a lot more things to do at any one time than we have people to do them. We are constantly reviewing and trying to improve our AGILE development process and how we estimate sprints. As the code, feature and content base grows there is more maintenance and support needed for the existing features and content, which can eat into the time a team has for new feature development, meaning you always have the push and pull of current quality of life in a release versus delivering new features and content. The same push and pull exists in the community as there is a strong desire for polished bug free gameplay now but also new features and content, often from the very same people.

Things like Salvage haven't been pushed back on a whim, but because in terms of priority we felt that it would premature to work on Salvage before the iCache and physical damage system is implemented in the game as this fundamentally changes how we manage state, handle damage and debris. So when presented with a priority call to make on resource allocation we deprioritized Salvage in order to build the infrastructure to really make it sing, as opposed to working on a system we will have to refactor when the iCache and new damage system came on line.

We have also decided we wanted to invest more time into the quality of life, performance and stability in Star Citizen as it is actively played every day by tens of thousands of people; on normal days we have an average of over 30,000 different people playing and at the peak during events this year we've hit 100,000 unique accounts playing in one day which is pretty impressive for a game in an early Alpha state. We are on track to have over one million unique players this year. Star Citizen already has the main gameloops of a space sim; cargo hauling, commodity trading, mercenary, pirate, bounty hunting and mining. Just spending time refining and finishing out these would make Star Citizen with all it's detail and fidelity more engrossing than any "finished" space sim you can play today.

We've shown a preview of the new roadmap format ( https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/17727-Star-Citizen-Squadron-42-Roadmap-Update ) that we are working on. Part of the motivation for changing how we share the tasks we are working on and their progress is so the community can get better visibility into the hard choices that we face everyday on the project and see what exactly every team is working on as opposed to just the few tasks we feel comfortable sharing because we think have a high probability to make that quarter. When we make a priority call and move up or add a task there is always something that needs to be pushed back. The new format which tracks our 58 feature and content teams that work on Star Citizen and Squadron 42, will be able to show what each team is working on and if a new initiative like improving the cargo hauling experience gets added you'll see the tasks that get pushed back on the teams that will work on this new initiative. As a point of data these teams can be anywhere from 4 people to over 20 people and of the 58 teams only 11 are exclusively dedicated to Squadron 42 and 12 for Star Citizen and the rest are shared (things like graphics, engine, actor, vehicle, AI, VFX, sound and so on), although a lot of the priorities for things like actor, vehicle and AI are driven by what Squadron needs.

Switching the roadmap format was something that I made a priority for us at the start of the year when it was clear that the current roadmap format wasn't helping, especially as the teams really didn't want to commit until absolutely definitely their feature would make it, which you'll normally only know about six weeks before release, due to the vitriol they would see when a task was pushed back, despite our best efforts to get everyone that looks at the current Road Map to read and acknowledge the caveats ( https://robertsspaceindustries.com/roadmap/board/1-Star-Citizen/info ) which explicitly say some of the tasks are likely to slip. Getting tired of this I felt it would be best for the community to see the same view I and the rest of the senior development management see on Star Citizen and Squadron 42. This won't stop people from disagreeing with our priority calls or how long something takes, but at least it will share the overall picture and people can see exactly what everyone is working on at any moment and how long it is projected to take. They will be able to see it change when it does for us and hopefully appreciate how many people are working really hard to make Star Citizen a game like no other. One of the reasons the new Road Map is taking time because we're building a system that visualizes all this as a top level directly from our JIRA database. We plan to use a more verbose version of the public roadmap for our internal sprint scheduling, so the data you see will be a sanitized version of what we see (we won't share individual developer names and assignments publically for obvious reasons but internally we will see this).

I sense from your reply to me that it's the time taken and priorities that you're frustrated with, as you feel like we're focusing on the wrong things. I can see that point of view, but you're looking at it from the outside without the full knowledge of exactly what it will take, and the order it needs to be done in to deliver the gameplay that will set Star Citizen above everything else. This is the game I've dreamed of my whole life. Now I am in a position to realize it, I am not willing to compromise it's potential because it is taking longer than I originally envisioned. What I will commit to, and what is an internal priority is to improve the current gameplay and quality of life as we go, as Star Citizen is already fun in many ways, even if more buggy and not as stable as I would like, and just finishing off and polishing the basics will make it play as well or better than most other games.

I can promise you the gameplay I described is not a pipe dream, nor will it take 10 to 20 years to deliver. I described systems we either have working, or are working on; we've even shown early versions of some of this like fire on Inside Star Citizen. I can't promise you exactly what quarter it will come together but once the new Road Map web work is done you'll be able to see the teams progress to achieving what I describe in real time.

Thank you for your support and passion over the years. I hope this extra insight was helpful.


In short: Psycho.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on September 12, 2020, 01:58:37 PM
fucking lol


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on September 12, 2020, 02:05:05 PM
I'm not even going to read Chris's second response, because the first one is GODDAMNED INSANE. He is literally trying to create a universe for systems that don't even remotely need that much depth. He has clearly mistaken granularity for fun and thinks that the more bullshit you can simulate, the more fun it will be. But it won't. It's like forcing someone in an MMOG to walk every single place, with no fast travel, to craft every piece of food and then take the time to eat it. It makes for 30 minutes of busywork to have 5 minutes of fun.

This game, if it ever even manages to work, will be just a slog of bullshit. Meanwhile, Elite Dangerous has been out for years and is at least as much fun and depth as that sounds like only, you know, is released and has worked. And didn't cost $300 million and counting.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on September 12, 2020, 02:10:42 PM
There's a game on steam, I think green hell.

I returned it 10 minutes in despite being intensely interested because starting a fire in the game was more effort than real life.

Simulation is mostly bad.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on September 12, 2020, 02:20:48 PM
As an aside, Barotrauma (https://store.steampowered.com/app/602960/Barotrauma/) can simulate that above situation almost exactly, except on a 2D sub instead of a 3D spaceship. It's a fun "party" game for a group of (preferably drunk) friends.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Goumindong on September 12, 2020, 03:38:31 PM
Barotrauma probably doesn’t simulate it like star citizen is trying to. Ships probably don’t have plumbing in the sense that there is some representation of it in space. Ships probably have plumbing in like a line item on a spreadsheet. And if the rng pulls the line of the plumbing the plumbing springs a leak.

Roberts is like... trying to design spaceships by making sure all the fucking pipes fit in the walls laid as real objects so that a projectile could impact a specific point on the pipe to damage that specific section...it’s fucking nuts. It’s less a simulation at that point than a recreation.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on September 12, 2020, 04:24:25 PM
It's true the internal electrical wiring and the liquid and air plumbing on a Barotrauma don't have physical representations in game that you can damage/sever directly* but the power node in Roberts' example being damaged by a bullet is effectively like damaging an electrical junction box in Barotrama causing a cascade of failures which is modeled in game.

But yeah if he's trying to build an actual fluid dynamics simulation inside each ship best of luck to him :awesome_for_real:

* electrical wiring can be changed but only at predetermined objects, you can't "cut" a wire at any random location


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on September 12, 2020, 08:15:39 PM
You know what, reading that made me think differently about the whole thing. I think this is not just a grift any more. That was like the fucking Apocalypse Now of gaming. Roberts sounds like goddamn Kurtz up the river in that. "Are you an assassin?"

I don't think it's even as coherent as "this is my idea of fun". It's like he's gone into the heart of funness and doesn't know where the fuck he is any more. Like, he's telling people to make imaginary spaceships one day and the next day he's worrying about the realism of how players suffocate to death.

I wrote a short piece once about the insanity of a certain kind of artificial societies modelling where the goal was (in all seriousness) to make a simulation that was 1:1 with the actual universe in complexity where the only advantage would be (since it's just as hard to understand as the actual world) that you could shut it off and turn it on again from the start. That's pretty much Martin's "Sandkings" and Sturgeon's "Microcosmic God" as a serious proposition.

Roberts has gone there. This suddenly isn't funny any more--that's a dude who has gone from grifter territory into cultist insanity. Things don't go well usually past that point.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on September 13, 2020, 08:48:09 AM
I'm reminded that the 2D roleplaying server game Space Station 13 started out as a program to simulate how air moves from one space to another... but it moved way beyond that as people with waaaay too much time on their hands got a hold of the program and added systems that were NOT simulation onto it.

Adding something to measure how each molecule of air behaves in the event of a hull breach is fucking stupid, for one thing you cant even see it, and secondly all it means for the player is "I have a force of X pulling me to the breach, so I have to counteract with movement Y. Or I ignore it completely cause I'm strapped to the chair and have 'magnetic boots.'"

But ya, development basically now focused on unimportant stuff for god knows why.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ashamanchill on September 13, 2020, 11:24:45 AM
As an aside, Barotrauma (https://store.steampowered.com/app/602960/Barotrauma/) can simulate that above situation almost exactly, except on a 2D sub instead of a 3D spaceship. It's a fun "party" game for a group of (preferably drunk) friends.


I straight up lost my friends to this game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on September 15, 2020, 05:06:53 AM
Cool. My guild is recruiting and Engineer LVL I to be the patching bitch when there is a plasma coolant leak. I also need four more Engineers LVL II to run my warp core so I can come home from work and zoom zoom pew pew.

I'm assuming this game is aiming for ships to have an actual crew and do the actual mundane shit?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Setanta on September 16, 2020, 12:25:49 AM
I just realised I'd invested a couple of hundred dollars in this. Time to play the "Australia and the ACCC" card on it I think. Given it's USD, that would be nice to have back in the wallet


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: justdave on September 17, 2020, 12:34:52 AM
Cool. My guild is recruiting and Engineer LVL I to be the patching bitch when there is a plasma coolant leak. I also need four more Engineers LVL II to run my warp core so I can come home from work and zoom zoom pew pew.

I'm assuming this game is aiming for ships to have an actual crew and do the actual mundane shit?

I have Flight Attendant LVL II and Spacecraft Dietician LVL I, sign me up. I may seem useless now, but when they get the final electrolyte depletion mechanic in, patching bitches are going to need that extra sodium. It's sweaty work. And thirsty.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on September 17, 2020, 07:36:57 AM
I recorded some of my gameplay recently.

(https://i.imgur.com/bKk9mUy.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on October 11, 2020, 09:31:28 PM
Not worth even linking Roberts most recent posts and letter to the community. Just a bunch more vague "our dream game" and "it will be done when it's done" bullshit. Basically the single player game Squadron 42 was originally scheduled to be in beta this quarter, going by the roadmap they stopped putting out at the beginning of the year.  They essentially had to finally admit that the game is being delayed because it was pretty obvious when they're talking about making roadmaps for when the new roadmap will be out. Also they just announced a new quarterly show devoted to S42 (the first episode of which just came out and apparently runs over an hour long and says jack shit). You don't really commit to an ongoing quarterly show for a product if you're expecting it to release in the next 6-12 months. No real apologies, no new estimated dates (not that they'd be worth anything". Just a lot of stuff about how Roberts isn't going to compromise on his vision.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on November 22, 2020, 07:47:56 PM
the roadmap to the roadmap to the roadmap has been delayed


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on November 22, 2020, 07:51:42 PM
i am tempted to actually play this infinite-sea-of-weinerjuice in eternal alpha just to get a sense of how fucked up development has been or what they even did to get things so off track, but i have to find someone to gift me an account i can use to toodle around and fuck my ship through any collision detection orifice i can find in the engine


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on November 22, 2020, 08:18:14 PM
i am tempted to actually play this infinite-sea-of-weinerjuice in eternal alpha just to get a sense of how fucked up development has been or what they even did to get things so off track, but i have to find someone to gift me an account i can use to toodle around and fuck my ship through any collision detection orifice i can find in the engine

review cuck first


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on November 22, 2020, 08:22:39 PM
granted, i do still have to do that

but right now i am busy trying to learn how to wake up without putting myself through the wall of my shitty apartment and dying


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on November 22, 2020, 08:37:40 PM
Oh good my optimal hydration level has been achieved. Wrap it up, my star citizen character already has more of life figured out than I do


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on November 22, 2020, 09:12:01 PM
when using the native resolution of my monitor, this chugs at 17 fps on my brand new computer. i plug in a different, smaller monitor to get it up to a healthy 30fps, but it clips off half the UI. getting out of my bed puts my head halfway through the ceiling and i hang in the air trying to crouch-walk my way back out of the ceiling collision detection. i awkwardly fall through, roll my way to the door, and walk through seas of blank-faced npc's, each one of them either blankly staring at a wall or standing on a chair, lost presumably in their own ennui. a half an hour later i have succeeded at my morning commute to the spaceport, where i summon my ship of the day. it is hovering. i do not think it is supposed to. i deploy the staircase. the staircase clips ... something, the ley lines, perhaps. it is a bad interaction. the spirits are displeased with my impertinence. the ship starts rotating awkwardly and then ejects itself out the side of the building at .4 the speed of light, and i die instantly

this game has been in production for almost a decade


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on November 22, 2020, 09:35:47 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/NOzDU1q.png)

- leave docking bay
- get assimilated by "autopilot override"
- mash buttons until i turn the engines off and on again
- during limited period of free-fall, the autopilot becomes confused about my actual vector and starts flying me into buildings
- pictured: me, being abducted merrily through all the buildings on the planetary surface, wondering where my ultimate destination lies
- chat describes the issue as an intransigent 'hardware error' (whose, mine?) effecting people at random for reasons and requiring reinstall

this game has been in production for almost a decade


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Chimpy on November 22, 2020, 11:46:05 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/NOzDU1q.png)

- leave docking bay
- get assimilated by "autopilot override"
- mash buttons until i turn the engines off and on again
- during limited period of free-fall, the autopilot becomes confused about my actual vector and starts flying me into buildings
- pictured: me, being abducted merrily through all the buildings on the planetary surface, wondering where my ultimate destination lies
- chat describes the issue as an intransigent 'hardware error' (whose, mine?) effecting people at random for reasons and requiring reinstall

this game has been in production for almost a decade

review cuck first

 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on November 23, 2020, 05:10:28 AM
Not sure who the cuck is in this situation but that game is fucking someone.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on November 23, 2020, 06:44:37 AM
Except somehow the ball gag went in the butt.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on November 23, 2020, 08:00:12 AM
Not sure who the cuck is in this situation but that game is fucking someone.

it is me, every time my ship clip-warps into the earth and gets vaporized, i have to file a replacement insurance claim and wait for it to be processed, at which point the ship is returned to me with basic stock equipment and minus any upgrades


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on November 23, 2020, 08:13:31 AM
Not sure who the cuck is in this situation but that game is fucking someone.

it is me, every time my ship clip-warps into the earth and gets vaporized, i have to file a replacement insurance claim and wait for it to be processed, at which point the ship is returned to me with basic stock equipment and minus any upgrades

Is that a real thing that happens?  For any other game I might think you were pulling legs.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on November 23, 2020, 10:57:36 AM
Yes, actually. My ship blew itself the fuck up by catapulting itself through the hangar wall. I wake up in bed again. I have to leave the habitat, take the elevator again, then walk to the subway, then take the subway to the spaceport, then go to a terminal and enter a claim for a ship replacement, then it tells me u have to wait for the claim to be processed. You can expedite it for a fee. The aristocrats


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on November 23, 2020, 11:11:27 AM
You make it sound found with all those elevator and subway trips.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on November 23, 2020, 12:35:09 PM
Elevator Squad 42: Your quest is to deliver at least one hundred pilots to another floor of a large space station where they can continue their walk to the subway. There are more expensive elevators with customized music available if you are willing to buy them with the new Elevator Squad 42 Maxi-Pack. If you leave your shift on the elevator before one hundred pilots your count starts over. If you calculate maximum efficiency on door closings, Mark Hamill's voice [tm] will briefly congratulate you, though sometimes this causes a hardware error that will require you to buy a new sound card for your PC.

Insurance Adjuster Squad 42: Your goal is to delay as long as possible the processing of claims for destroyed ships. You first must collect all parts of your Complex Paperwork Kit by hunting randomly through 300 file cabinets unless you would like to buy the optional new Insurance Adjuster Squad 42 Complex Paperwork Kit Maxi-Pack with a customed-designed letterhead (the letterhead design tool is in alpha testing still, as they want to figure out how much oxygen a letterhead designer in a compressed-air office complex uses before putting the tool into beta). If you can delay one hundred players for at least ten minutes of real time, you will receive an achievement that will entitle you a special paperwork completion chamber on your customized spaceship if your spaceship cost more than $200 to purchase. This feature is in early alpha.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on November 24, 2020, 05:15:53 AM
if you do not delete your post before chris roberts sees it that will become the next gameplay loop


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on November 24, 2020, 07:19:13 AM
True fact: this thread is the design doc.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: slog on November 24, 2020, 09:09:28 AM
Does this game have any redeeming features at all?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on November 24, 2020, 09:15:42 AM
Does this game have any redeeming features at all?
Uh, 114 pages of hilarity and counting not enough for you?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: slog on November 24, 2020, 10:28:54 AM
Does this game have any redeeming features at all?
Uh, 114 pages of hilarity and counting not enough for you?

The thread has been fantastic yes.  I ask because a part of me just says "this game can't be that bad, right?"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on November 24, 2020, 10:47:40 AM
You can watch it for yourself on Twitch. It’s one of the more popular games being streamed right now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: slog on November 24, 2020, 10:55:34 AM
You can watch it for yourself on Twitch. It’s one of the more popular games being streamed right now.


I picked the streamer with the largest number of viewers.  First words I hear are "You are stuck in the wall?"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on November 24, 2020, 12:07:46 PM
Working As Intended :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: 01101010 on November 24, 2020, 12:13:44 PM
Chock full of features I assume.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on November 25, 2020, 03:01:28 AM
Does this game have any redeeming features at all?

the developers have actually fleshed out a ridiculously expansive immersion setup. in other space sims, you more or less exist as a ship that you switch out in menus from a collection, but you yourself don't exist.

in star citizen, you exist as you. the effect both in terms of immersion and gameplay loop satisfaction is actually very important.

the ships themselves also exist in wanton abundance in all sorts of niches, aesthetics, and performances.

assuming a competent development plan were to be implemented now to solidify game performance and gameplay mechanics and try to get the entire structure of the game to some semblance of feature complete plus stable (which from where i'm looking is like two more years out minimum — the whole thing is garishly unstable) you would have a great game with lots of ways to waste time and enjoy yourself doing spaceshippy things.

all of that is presently a pipe dream though because a competent development plan has never yet existed and their coding implementation is haphazard at best. chris roberts obviously has no containment of scope creep.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on November 25, 2020, 04:33:47 AM
i am so trying to complete a mission out of spite now.

i got all the way to another planet, then i got the goods, then i got them to the planet i was supposed to get them to, and i picked it up and stepped out of the ship and the deploying stepladder pushed me into orbit and i died


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tebonas on November 25, 2020, 05:07:31 AM
One really wonders how David Braben managed to bring out Elite Dangerous in complete working conditions for just 1.5 Millions from Kickstarter if its that impossibly difficult. He must be a Wizard, those British and their Hogwarts training!  :awesome_for_real:



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on November 25, 2020, 05:59:04 AM
i am so trying to complete a mission out of spite now.

i got all the way to another planet, then i got the goods, then i got them to the planet i was supposed to get them to, and i picked it up and stepped out of the ship and the deploying stepladder pushed me into orbit and i died

But was this in some kind of, like, awesome way where you were in a zero g environment and a deploying ladder would credibly push you out of the mag-lock thingy and you totally shoulda just been watching wtf you were doing?  Sounds like it is working like it's supposed to!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on November 25, 2020, 06:10:01 AM
You have to have purchased the Ultra-Access Mag-Ladder 3000 (only $100 extra!) to have a 95% chance of being able to exit your ship without being killed. The base game Mag-Ladder unfortunately only allows for a 50 percent chance of survival until you have levelled up your skills in the Ladder Ladder.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on November 25, 2020, 08:27:58 AM
i really enjoy the straight fucking verve of these collision errors. nothing's SUBTLE. a stray polygon from the overelaborate docking ladder animate-clips with your chi and then whambo bambo you are ejected into the core of the planet, or your ship starts spinning faster than a neutron star, ejects itself out of the top of the hangar, and travels off to z-fight God


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on November 25, 2020, 08:31:28 AM
yooo i stepped out a elevator into the absolute fucking void. just like, literally nothing was loaded

i am still traveling through it. i can tell that i am moving because the door back into the elevator exists as a frame of reference


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on November 25, 2020, 10:05:44 AM
i got all the way to a faraway planet on a retrieval mission. i did everything right. i landed perfectly. i just had to go out and collect two crates off the ground. i took the ladder down and fell into the planet. i just watched the surface zoom away above me as i started to die of hypothermia. i can't believe it. there is not a single mission i have been able to complete. i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Chimpy on November 25, 2020, 04:07:43 PM
i am so trying to complete a mission out of spite now.

i got all the way to another planet, then i got the goods, then i got them to the planet i was supposed to get them to, and i picked it up and stepped out of the ship and the deploying stepladder pushed me into orbit and i died

That mission is to review cuck.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mandella on November 26, 2020, 03:18:18 PM
I actually had to check the timestamps on Samprimary's posts. It's not that those bugs are existing in Alpha, it's that those are the very same bugs I read about years ago. Years.

How is there anybody even playing in the Alpha now? For the comedy?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: 01101010 on November 26, 2020, 04:23:56 PM
I actually had to check the timestamps on Samprimary's posts. It's not that those bugs are existing in Alpha, it's that those are the very same bugs I read about years ago. Years.

How is there anybody even playing in the Alpha now? For the comedy?

Gambler's syndrome... they are probably trying to get any kind of return for the money invested.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Threash on November 26, 2020, 06:09:00 PM
Does this game have any redeeming features at all?
Uh, 114 pages of hilarity and counting not enough for you?

The thread has been fantastic yes.  I ask because a part of me just says "this game can't be that bad, right?"

The game can't be that bad when there's no game. *tapping on forehead meme*


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on November 26, 2020, 07:30:50 PM
You can see it already--the draw is in seeing if you can play a single mission correctly--it's a kind of metagame.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: slog on November 27, 2020, 05:39:22 AM
I spent about 20 minutes watching a few more streams.  Crippling bugs on every stream and the streamers didn't seem to be bothered in the least that the game is unplayable.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on November 27, 2020, 07:11:29 AM
The Heaven's Gate cult weren't really bothered that the comet wasn't actually coming to beam them up. Once you're all in as a believer, you're all in.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on November 27, 2020, 10:52:04 AM
You can see it already--the draw is in seeing if you can play a single mission correctly--it's a kind of metagame.

ULTIMATE SOULZ


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on November 28, 2020, 04:30:40 AM
I have completed a one (1) mission in the highly anticipated new game, "Star Citizen"

I must now die, as my inventory is permanently bugged and i cannot remove my helmet to provide myself with water and nutrition and i have to run around until i die of dehydration


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on November 28, 2020, 07:54:48 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__NL-JJyv-c


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on November 28, 2020, 08:08:29 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__NL-JJyv-c

Is that a video of you completing your mission?  Thx for the epilectic attack.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on November 28, 2020, 08:18:20 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__NL-JJyv-c

Is that a video of you completing your mission?  Thx for the epilectic attack.

in that video

and i swear to god every part of this is true without any embellishment

i had earlier in the day purchased a burrito from an expo stand and tried to eat it. then i dropped it, then picked it up and warped it to my personal inventory.

purchasing this dropped burrito completely bugged out my inventory, which means i was unable to do so much as remove my helmet, which is necessary to eat or drink. killing myself did nothing to alleviate that situation.

respawning put me back in the same state of almost dehydration. i had to die a real death. i tried to get to space to do that, but the elevators on the planet i was on which are necessary to reach the spaceport were all broken, trapping all of us on the planet. i would not survive having another player pick us all up from the planet surface and teleporting us manually off the planet to another working spaceport.

so i was wandering around trying to die of dehydration so i could un-get the broken burrito out of my now broken inventory.

i was pretty low, down to like four percent hydration. to pass the time while i waited to terminally dessicate, i was looking through the 890 jump luxury superyacht interior at the expo.

i walked into one of the ship's two saunas and clipped through the wooden bench, leaving me stuck in this terminal ragdolling.

it turns out that while your character is ragdolling, you are no longer dying of dehydration. side benefit

so now i'm

ok let's go through my notes here and make sure i have this right

mhm ok, ok, yes this all checks out

i am spinning so hard through a sauna seat, that i can't die of dehydration, to despawn a floor burrito that broke my inventory, that left my helmet stuck on, that leaves me unable to escape a spaceport that broke because its elevators don't open


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on November 28, 2020, 08:34:36 AM
i am spinning so hard through a sauna seat, that i can't die of dehydration, to despawn a floor burrito that broke my inventory, that left my helmet stuck on, that leaves me unable to escape a spaceport that broke because its elevators don't open

Wow, their quest writers sure are creative.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on November 28, 2020, 09:52:19 AM
sam, the absolute tear-inducing hilarity of all your posts on this game ALMOST makes up for your abandonment of your true life's quest, to watch Cuck for us and report on it.

Learning that you have to not only eat and drink, but actively remove one's helmet to accomplish that task on the regular is just precious. What kind of socially stunted autist wants that in a game?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: rattran on November 28, 2020, 11:22:41 AM
The kind of people who demanded MOAR REALITY in WWIIOnline?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on November 28, 2020, 11:25:30 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__NL-JJyv-c

I like that someone commented on your video to tell you where to find beautiful girls online. Because having your identity stolen by a fake dating site full of bots is still probably more personally rewarding than trying to play Star Citizen.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on November 28, 2020, 11:47:35 AM
excellent, more emergent gameplay


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on November 28, 2020, 02:18:24 PM
Honestly, I laughed so hard reading this today. Thanks.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Abagadro on November 29, 2020, 12:07:57 AM
The SA thread(s) on star citizen, now on its 7th or 8th iteration (I think they are up to around 25 or 30 thousand pages combined if you count all the threads) is a continual source of amusement.  The "make Serek Dmart a mod" phase was particularly enjoyable but he has been banned for 2+ years now.  I turbo-browse it for the funny gifs of glitches and citizen nonsense.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on November 29, 2020, 11:03:14 AM
sam, the absolute tear-inducing hilarity of all your posts on this game ALMOST makes up for your abandonment of your true life's quest

you are the wind beneath my wings and for you all i threw together a shitty impromptu game cast

the challenge is "i must complete a SINGLE MISSION, or star citizen gets uninstalled"

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/819917456


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Pennilenko on November 29, 2020, 11:51:04 AM
sam, the absolute tear-inducing hilarity of all your posts on this game ALMOST makes up for your abandonment of your true life's quest

you are the wind beneath my wings and for you all i threw together a shitty impromptu game cast

the challenge is "i must complete a SINGLE MISSION, or star citizen gets uninstalled"

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/819917456

My favorite part was when you said, "Not like this..."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: slog on November 29, 2020, 06:59:14 PM
sam, the absolute tear-inducing hilarity of all your posts on this game ALMOST makes up for your abandonment of your true life's quest

you are the wind beneath my wings and for you all i threw together a shitty impromptu game cast

the challenge is "i must complete a SINGLE MISSION, or star citizen gets uninstalled"

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/819917456

Thank you for taking one for the team.  I was only able to watch the beginning, but is the automated system rejecting your ship retrieval a feature?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on November 29, 2020, 10:35:23 PM
I see now how they suck you in, because that video was immensely enjoyable to watch.  That ending sequence had me shedding tears of happiness.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on November 30, 2020, 01:25:58 PM
"Not like this!"

The interesting thing is just even if it fucking worked completely as intended, everything is bizarrely overengineered. I mean, ok, you're Space Uber and you have a contract to pick up a package and you have to go in a depot where you have to go through four doors just to get the package. The package is just a dinky thing, you could carry it in your tiny main cabin, you don't need a cargo bay, and what kind of space economy has someone going in a spaceship just to pick up a single small cube unless it contains the Most Valuable Thing Ever [tm] in which case who the fuck would leave it in an unguarded automated facility for any old courier. So in the name of realism they've built in systems that are full of incredible tedium while building a world simulator that's wildly unrealistic in every other way. The whole thing is not just feature creep--there's some deeper design stupidity here.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: slog on November 30, 2020, 01:52:13 PM
I can see this kind of over-engineering happening when you outsource pieces of development to separate teams that don't integrate.  Each designs their separate system with little thought to how it will work overall.  Or, maybe this is just Chris Roberts taking the realism over the top because he's lost sight of how a game is supposed to be fun.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mandella on November 30, 2020, 02:09:40 PM
Thank you. I watched all 44 minutes 58 seconds of that "playthrough."

That game is broke, man.

Okay. I'm the minority here in that I'm fine with the "World as sim" concept. I would have hundreds of hours into that game -- if it worked at all. And no, Alpha is no excuse at this point -- it is no more playable now than years ago. When was the last patch that actually fixed any gameplay? Hell, when was the last patch?

To Khaldun's point, if this was an Alpha from any competent game studio I wouldn't have a problem with that. The station you picked up the package from would be staffed in the release version of the game. And cargo needs to be carried in the cargo section of your ship as per safety regulations and your contract.

The fact that your cargo lift can also double as a trash compactor is just extra usability...

I'm going to have to go play some Elite: Dangerous now just to clean my brain out.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ashamanchill on November 30, 2020, 03:09:32 PM
this game has been in production for almost a decade

That is the only part about this that makes sense to me, as the graphics look about 2 generations behind. Taking your wise advice, I watched like 5 streams of this simultaneously while waiting for a pizza. 3 of them were shooting some sort of laser at the ground mining (I think?) the whole time with minimal interaction, one dude was bumming around a shitty and dull looking space station, and the last was towing something (?), I'm not sure though. No seriously, all memes aside, what the fuck is this game? People paid thousands of dollars for ships in this game? Chris Roberts must be the best con man ever in the history of con men.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on November 30, 2020, 05:53:01 PM
But if it was an alpha by any designer with even a slight bit of common sense, you'd be thinking "gameplay" and "fun" as your concepts. So ok, you go to a dangerous planet and the place you pick up your cargo means you either have environmentally tolerant equipment or you have to run to the depot. But you don't make "go through three doors each of which has an interface" part of the gameplay once you get there unless your designer is a fucking stupid 18-year old who has been given the job to design the depot but all he knows is how to copy-paste the door design done by an earlier team. You get to the depot through dangerous environmental conditions, you grab the package automatically and it goes into your inventory, you run back and it autoloads into the ship and you're off.

If you decide "no, no, realism means a player either has to bring a cargo-loader for heavy stuff or he can only take what he can carry in person" and "realism means he has to personally load the cargo via direct 3d interactions in his avatar" and "no no realism means we have to assess the weight of the cargo, his avatar's physical endurance, and the environmental conditions", well--ok, think about it. -70 C conditions on an alien planet? Ok, first off, you ain't running nowhere even if you have a snug insulated and heated suit--that platform is icy. If there's any cargo worth talking about that isn't just a little dinky package, why wouldn't you have staff there to help load? The UPS or Amazon courier doesn't walk into a facility and have to locate every single fucking package on their route one by one. If this is realistic, you'd at least have bots or little alien slave races or minimum-wage workers or something getting cargo ready and putting it on a cargo-loader platform. You wouldn't be running and launching like crazy unless you worked for Uber literally and every second was money and again if that was so, you wouldn't have three fucking bulkhead doors in the depot.

Etc. I'm totally down for a realistic space economy sim but that's the point--if you are going to go total realism and do dumb shit like make toilets then you just took on a bunch of other dumb shit that is not satisfied by making five doorways with five interfaces on them.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on December 01, 2020, 08:54:39 AM
The fact that your cargo lift can also double as a trash compactor is just extra usability...

to this day, i am ragdolling violently in that cargo bay of my flaming 300i, somewhere on the desolate wastes of microtech. life has done enough to me without you calling me trash


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mandella on December 01, 2020, 12:17:52 PM
The fact that your cargo lift can also double as a trash compactor is just extra usability...

to this day, i am ragdolling violently in that cargo bay of my flaming 300i, somewhere on the desolate wastes of microtech. life has done enough to me without you calling me trash

Heh.. Well, you were after you got compacted.

I have to ask a gameplay question here, heavens help me. Did you do anything to make the cargo area close? Or was that just "emergent gameplay."

And holy hell the fact that it can close with no way to open from the inside. Your spaceship was designed by pre-1970's refrigerator door engineers.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: slog on December 01, 2020, 03:22:14 PM
The fact that your cargo lift can also double as a trash compactor is just extra usability...

to this day, i am ragdolling violently in that cargo bay of my flaming 300i, somewhere on the desolate wastes of microtech. life has done enough to me without you calling me trash

Heh.. Well, you were after you got compacted.

I have to ask a gameplay question here, heavens help me. Did you do anything to make the cargo area close? Or was that just "emergent gameplay."

And holy hell the fact that it can close with no way to open from the inside. Your spaceship was designed by pre-1970's refrigerator door engineers.

Think of all the children that got trapped in cargo holds and died.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on December 01, 2020, 04:50:57 PM
And then an indie game of this magnitude and scope exists and works much better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMg15LiQwEI


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on December 01, 2020, 05:01:05 PM
The fact that your cargo lift can also double as a trash compactor is just extra usability...

to this day, i am ragdolling violently in that cargo bay of my flaming 300i, somewhere on the desolate wastes of microtech. life has done enough to me without you calling me trash

Heh.. Well, you were after you got compacted.

I have to ask a gameplay question here, heavens help me. Did you do anything to make the cargo area close? Or was that just "emergent gameplay."

And holy hell the fact that it can close with no way to open from the inside. Your spaceship was designed by pre-1970's refrigerator door engineers.

Since I now have something along the lines of a Bachelors in Star Citizen Errors, I must elaborate on the issues as they presented themselves.

The cargo bay is smartly designed to avoid opening itself such as to clip into existing materials. It will deploy incompletely if it intercepts materials or terrain in its way, and you'll realize you have to move the cargo or repark your ship somewhere not stupid. This is actually somewhat impressive, as in any other game it would just deploy its opening animation and clip through hell and back as it desired.

When I placed the cargo, it clipped through the cargo bay and the game read it as being placed on the ground directly beneath the deployed cargo bay, to the cargo bay, even though the game seems to have understood it was placed correctly in the bay itself. So the cargo bay tried to retreat back up to resolve the clipping. It stopped at my head. Then when I crouched, it slid shut a little bit more, because it had room. Then when I lay down, it had enough room to slap all the way shut. With me in it, of course. The cargo came with, as this resolved the game's inability to fuck its way to understanding where schroedinger's cargo pod even was to begin with. There are ways to activate the cargo bay to open while still inside, but I couldn't get my adaptive interaction to trigger that option because I just couldn't find it. They've been titchy in some instances I've seen, like there and in the ladder entry ports for the Freelancers. And, as usual, in this infinite alpha, Titchy usually translates into "you die horribly." In this case, I clipped through a wall, merged into the rear cargo bay then got stuck infinitely ragdolling under the top polygonal layer, slamming repeatedly into the ship until it was destroyed while inexplicably invulnerable myself.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on December 03, 2020, 02:54:28 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrSk9HxkLDU


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on December 04, 2020, 02:13:58 PM
 :thumbs_up:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on December 06, 2020, 10:00:35 AM
somebody was like 'i like when you play star citizen and give updates, you should do that more' and i said 'sure, but i also don't like giving chris roberts money'


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Chimpy on December 06, 2020, 11:23:47 AM
somebody was like 'i like when you play star citizen and give updates, you should do that more' and i said 'sure, but i also don't like giving chris roberts money'

Take a break, go review Cuck.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Azazel on December 09, 2020, 11:23:12 AM
That's how I feel when I'm talking to some of the kids in the art scene about the Rodney King riots and realize to them it would be like some old timer talking to me about the old Watts riots.

Which means it's probably about time for another Watts riot?

And I'm "catching up" on this thread, reading 2+ year-old posts since I last did.

I think the riots caught up this year.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on December 12, 2020, 12:48:22 AM
playin this here game when its b's turn to use the monster rig compy

what's today's fun? the hangars refuse to deliver me more than a third of my ship. i have to try to fly the parts i get delivered

(https://i.imgur.com/Fqg2Qf1.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on December 12, 2020, 03:32:15 AM
Well without the cargo hatch, maybe it is safer?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Count Nerfedalot on December 12, 2020, 12:07:47 PM
You've got to admire the sophistication of the emergent gameplay that results from a realistic simulation that monitors the heat generated by the friction of your suit against the fuel lines as you're spinning madly inside the airframe to the point that the fuel catches fire.  lrn2play nub   :why_so_serious:




Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on December 12, 2020, 01:20:08 PM
Cosplay Wonder Woman?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on December 22, 2020, 07:33:49 AM
First post in months and its about star citizen. Help me.

So I was looking at something on Newsweek and as I clicked off the page I beheld the words "Star Citizen" leaping off the page like some damned Siren singing and promising sexxx with some fat guy in a Khasakstan scam center who is running 10 guys in different windows.

Naturally I could not resist so I gave newsweek the extra click.

https://www.newsweek.com/star-citizen-assault-stanton-live-event-start-idris-battle-1556629

Quote
Newsgeek
'Star Citizen' Assault on Stanton Live Event Starts Soon With Idris Battle
By Christopher Groux On 12/22/20 at 8:44 AM EST

Star Citizen has a major live event in the works, and it's starting over the next few days. Dubbed the Assault on Stanton, players will seemingly work together to fight against a fleet of some of the game's most powerful Capital Ships.

Have you ever wondered what it might be like to go toe to toe with an Idris? You'll soon get your chance. The event was announced via a short teaser trailer debuted on the game's social media channel's on Monday afternoon.

Following the launch of the Alpha 3.12 Assault on Stanton update, player-controlled fleets will soon take aim at an intergalactic terrorist organization called the XenoThreat. The group has most of the game's most powerful spacecraft lined up and ready to wage war on the Stanton System that millions of pilots in the Persistent Universe call home.
Newsweek subscription offers >

However, unlike the live events popularized by games like Fortnite, Star Citizen's take on the concept will roll out in phases over several days, with the first step beginning sometime this week.

And, in true Star Citizen fashion, it's not entirely clear just how long the rollout of these phases will actually take. In essence, the trajectory of the event depends on the type of in-game offensive players are able to mount. Should the heaviest of firepower come in quickly, it's possible the event could end somewhat rapidly, while a less formidable force might mean a more protracted war is required.

'Star Citizen's first big live event starts soon. A fleet of the game's toughest ships is about to descend on Stanton. 'Star Citizen' is in development on PC. Cloud Imperium Games

Regardless of how long the fight takes, the Assault on Stanton event is perhaps the most developed version of the kind of action Star Citizen's creators at Cloud Imperium Games have promised over the last decade of active tool designing and technology building.

For the first time, the game's Persistent Universe will feature large-scale encounters against powerful AI foes. Especially for the project's millions-strong backers, hopefully this high-profile test is just the beginning of a much larger showcase of AI-controlled ships and in-game storylines. To access the event, all players need to do is log in and check out the latest update from the Civilian Defense Force.

The Assault on Stanton event arrives shortly after the deployment of Star Citizen's Alpha 3.12 update. The feature-rich download offers the first version of a reputation system, new gas cloud locations and additional ships like the Esperia Talon and Esperia Talon Strike variant. While larger additions like the highly anticipated Pyro system wait in the wings, many of the features listed in update 3.12 prepare players for entering the pirate-dominated territory.

Star Citizen is in development on PC.

What are your thoughts on Star Citizen's Assault on Stanton live event? Will it be enough to prove the game's army of skeptics wrong? Tell us in the comments section!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0yUMRrWwyA <-- Trailer

There's some pretty pictures in the article.

Wow. Thanks for doing stuff Eve and Star Trek Online were doing a decade ago.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on December 22, 2020, 09:32:36 AM
Quote
the kind of action Star Citizen's creators at Cloud Imperium Games have promised over the last decade of active tool designing and technology building

Cloud Imperium Games have promised over the last decade of active tool designing and

over the last decade

decade
:why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on December 22, 2020, 12:54:40 PM
Quote
Have you ever wondered what it might be like to go toe to toe with an Idris?

Literally nobody who isn't already an extremely invested SC fan has ever wondered this.

I 'follow' the game and I have zero idea what an Idris is, or even that something called an Idris existed before now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on December 22, 2020, 01:53:16 PM
I was like...Elba?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on December 22, 2020, 03:59:01 PM
Idris Elba would kick my Irish ass, and I don't mind admitting it.

Haven't a clue what the SC version is, and don't care much.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on December 22, 2020, 05:01:16 PM
The Idris is one of the capital ships they sold for $1000+ (think at least one version was $1500 or something) and still isn't available for people to actually use themselves years later.

Anyhow, this event has been delayed until the beginning of the year. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/assault-on-stanton-event-1/3710636) Hope everyone has been practicing their "shocked" faces.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on December 22, 2020, 08:44:35 PM
There was some shit on Reddit about a trial run of this where the ship in question got stuck clipped inside a space station for the last third of the battle so it was just everybody shooting it while it helplessly squirmed inside the station.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on December 23, 2020, 05:20:10 AM
The irony of fleecing people for $1000-1500 for a video game ship...and then using it to kill them while not letting them have access to it themselves...

That's next level sadism, I'm impressed.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on January 13, 2021, 12:58:48 PM
Looked at the Star Citizen Reddit today as I was bored. Saw this

Some general tips that can improve your SC experience and make it less frustrating. Most applies across patches. (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/kn1h6g/some_general_tips_that_can_improve_your_sc/)

(https://i.redd.it/5cfvnawjjb861.png)

This is a game with over 100 Million dollars and half a decade in development.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on January 13, 2021, 02:13:25 PM
That's some real Happy Fun Ball energy there.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on January 13, 2021, 02:15:03 PM
A lot of these really read like the fake, April Fools Patch Notes a lot of games put out. And people keep giving these guys money.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on January 14, 2021, 03:18:07 AM
This is a game with over 100 Million dollars and half a decade in development.

Well over 100M. More like 300 Million dollars.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on January 15, 2021, 10:54:25 AM
A lot of these really read like the fake, April Fools Patch Notes a lot of games put out. And people keep giving these guys money.



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Setanta on January 15, 2021, 04:25:56 PM
I was one of those nutjobs that enjoyed Wildstar. Right until I realised how out of touch the devs really were.

At least it released unlike this trainwreck.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on January 27, 2021, 08:19:26 AM
At present, the game exists as a single system you can play in, Stanton.

Stanton has a set of major locations: the Microtech corporation planet, the ArcCorp corporation planet, the Hurston corporation planet, the gas giant Crusader which is intended to eventually have the Crusader Industries levitating platforms in its atmosphere but which is currently not interfaceable and has Port Olivar as a stand-in planetary base. Then on top of that, they have the independent miners' planetary base Delamar, and an asteroid pirate cove called Grim Hex. The rest of it is minor stations and moon bases, but those six locations are the fully fleshed out ports-of-call and basically are the whole game world.

It may be a bit unreasonable, one might say, to have a grand total of six major locations, eight to nine years into the start of development, and one of which is a stand-in barebones station. Which means that there's really only five major locations!

Never fear, however! there is a big change coming in an upcoming patch:



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Soulflame on January 27, 2021, 09:38:32 AM
I'm pretty sure the attunement for Hyjal in Burning Crusade was a lot worse than that Wildstar thing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Setanta on January 27, 2021, 11:37:17 AM
I'm pretty sure the attunement for Hyjal in Burning Crusade was a lot worse than that Wildstar thing.

I have to disagree. Wildstar went in there trying to appeal to "hardcore" gamers... and then managed to piss them off as well as the rest of us filthy casuals.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: slog on January 27, 2021, 11:42:45 AM
I'm pretty sure the attunement for Hyjal in Burning Crusade was a lot worse than that Wildstar thing.

I have to disagree. Wildstar went in there trying to appeal to "hardcore" gamers... and then managed to piss them off as well as the rest of us filthy casuals.

"Guys, it's just not hardcore enough.  We have to make harder for the players.  They will love it!"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Riggswolfe on January 30, 2021, 01:08:31 AM
I'm pretty sure the attunement for Hyjal in Burning Crusade was a lot worse than that Wildstar thing.

I have to disagree. Wildstar went in there trying to appeal to "hardcore" gamers... and then managed to piss them off as well as the rest of us filthy casuals.

"Guys, it's just not hardcore enough.  We have to make harder for the players.  They will love it!"

Wildstar is the MMO that most disappointed me. Ever. The little trailers were so damned fun and it looked like it'd have a ton of personality and be a blast to play. I think I played it for like...2 weeks and that only because decorating my rocket ship house was sort of fun. Very early on it just turned into an annoying grind and everyone I played with quit more or less before me or at about the same time. It just wasn't fun.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on January 31, 2021, 08:08:51 AM
The thing that killed me with Wildstar was the combat. It wasn't the rhythmic, relaxing tab-target system of WoW where you could mostly be on autopilot while grinding, but it wasn't fun, actiony combat like TERA or whatever other KMMOs might have existed at the time (it's been so long). It felt like the worst of both worlds, and made me realize I don't really hate tab-target combat as long as the other systems in the game are fun.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on February 27, 2021, 06:26:32 AM
so here's a spontaneous followup: I played this game pretty thoroughly, inside and out, for the better part of a month. Tried the ships, explored the full extent of the system, engaged in all the different available forms of gameplay. cashed out the WHOLE experience in that time. I had done ground combat, merc missions, bounty hunting, trading, search and rescue, basically all there was to do. Collected clothing sets and all that. That's it, about 20 days or so, did everything there was. Everything they accomplished in a decade. Basically done by the end of last year.

I have since been on standby, waiting for them to drop a new release with ... anything. Remember that this game has critical core functionality issues and most of the cornerstone elements of the FOCUS of the game, spaceship combat and flying, do not work or have depressingly hollow stand-in functionality. There's a laundry list of things that have incredibly vital needs unaddressed that the developers have to shore up. It's coming up on march. So! What have our brane genoiuses been up to in star citizen? what has cloud imperium decided needed to be addressed and extended? why of course it was to



Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on February 27, 2021, 07:29:24 AM
Is that Planet Cancun?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on February 27, 2021, 09:06:32 AM
That sounds like exactly what I wanted in my space combat simulator - humping cargo on a goddamn space dolly from the cargo bay to the warehouse.

... the fuck is wrong with these dinks?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on February 27, 2021, 09:40:36 AM
they have ship duplication bugs

lol


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on February 27, 2021, 10:28:24 AM
The important thing is - can you hide inside the Cargo for immersive Piracy action?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on February 27, 2021, 11:08:54 AM
The important thing is - can you hide inside the Cargo for immersive Piracy action?

Did you not see his video of hiding in the cargo hold?  It wasn't super Piratey, but it was hilarious.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: 01101010 on February 27, 2021, 11:30:05 AM
they have ship duplication bugs

lol

You mean the ships that cost actual money? holy shits... LULZ


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Comstar on February 28, 2021, 04:14:17 AM
they have ship duplication bugs

what.


Some of those ships cost 1000's of dollars. I need details.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on February 28, 2021, 06:39:25 AM
It's the last line on Sir Ts image above. That you have to do a character reset to fix ship duplication issues. Which implies the existence of a dupe.

Also none of you need details, who gives a shit, there's no game it's just a con.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Chimpy on February 28, 2021, 07:20:51 AM
so here's a spontaneous followup: I played this game pretty thoroughly, inside and out, for the better part of a month....

And yet, you don't seem to have time to do YOUR ONE JOB.

We need our review of Cuck, sir.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on February 28, 2021, 07:27:03 AM
That ship duplication thing has been going on for over a year. I can find reddit threads going back that far on a simple search.

And do you have 23 dollah to spare for your next space vehicle?

(https://i.redd.it/uhznkiisxpj61.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on February 28, 2021, 07:52:11 AM
Actually the Reddit thread on the Dev who proudly announced it is worth a look, as there is some quality Snark there as they step around calling it a useless piece of junk.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/lslkvl/new_vehicle_coming_to_pledge_store/

Quote
User avatar

GrandKaiser

Personally not a fan of the frontal struts. Completely blocks passenger forward and rear view. That said, I do like the minimalist design that maximizes on cargo space. I believe this cart likely pushes above its weight class.

smatchimo

While the struts may be of an annoyance to the pilot, the main deck of the vehicle provides an unencumbered view of the surrounding vistas.

no80s

Too bad it seems like a glass canon.

I heard the new SDF shield tech can be applied to things other than ships. Maybe it’ll be like a bicycle dynamo where the trolly shields get charged as long as your pushing it fast.

Silver

Have to balance defense with having a heart attack. Very emergent gameplay


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on March 01, 2021, 06:49:17 AM
$22 for a fucking space cart?

I spend weeks debating whether I should buy an entire game for less.

Anyway, I guess someone liked Death Stranding?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on March 01, 2021, 07:16:25 AM
"I believe this cart likely pushes above its weight class"

That is one of the most absurd sentences I have ever read. 


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on March 01, 2021, 10:55:12 AM
"I believe this cart likely pushes above its weight class"

That is one of the most absurd sentences I have ever read. 

This is precisely where I closed the window because Poe's Law kicked in.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on March 01, 2021, 11:04:40 AM
I’m pretty sure that’s a parody of actual ship “reviews”.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on March 01, 2021, 11:46:38 AM
At this point, who can tell?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on March 01, 2021, 01:06:50 PM
Actually the whole thing is a parody but yeah it's hard to tell.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/new-vehicle-coming-to-pledge-store


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on March 01, 2021, 03:27:17 PM
You don't get to make 'jokes' about rinsing your fanbase for useless shit that they are never going to use when your entire business model is rinsing your fanbase for useless shit that they are never going to use.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on March 01, 2021, 03:30:33 PM
It's a forum post by a player not RSI.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on March 12, 2021, 08:57:04 AM
It's the last line on Sir Ts image above. That you have to do a character reset to fix ship duplication issues. Which implies the existence of a dupe.

Also none of you need details, who gives a shit, there's no game it's just a con.

My ships duplicated like crazy. One ship that I rented during the "rent and try anything for free" event lasted in my inventory for months as a duplicate permanent ownership.  Could edit it and everything


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on March 12, 2021, 02:48:56 PM
They were just trying to trick you--they were going to come by and charge you US dollars for the months of your "unauthorized rental".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on March 13, 2021, 04:48:08 AM
350 MEEEELION DOLLAHS in funding passed. Whatever else you can say about Chris Roberts, e.g. that he is a dogshit Project lead, he really knows how to make people open their wallets.

(https://external-preview.redd.it/hJPNSjeEqoXPTKlyEOOGMvhdldL9WalQx3T46ijYBWE.png?auto=webp&s=7792b25e4930e4e0d5314f8a96ed25dce4f0f76f)

*edit* That's an average pledge of $115.25


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: IainC on March 15, 2021, 09:34:40 AM
2020, which was their tenth year of failing to deliver a spaceship game, was their best funding year yet.

(https://i.imgur.com/WJInOUV.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on March 16, 2021, 05:54:05 AM
Not sure if I like Musk or Roberts less.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on March 16, 2021, 06:33:31 AM
Seriously? Musk has at least contributed to actual innovative space technology, built actual space vehicles and they've been used for actual missions.

Roberts is a grifter.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on March 16, 2021, 08:17:49 AM
musk is also a grifter but he also did those other things

or at least employed people who did the other things


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on March 16, 2021, 09:11:32 AM
musk is also a grifter but he also did those other things

or at least employed people who did the other things
Yeah dude, at some point you gotta be pragmatic about stuff. Most people are horrible, the best we can hope for is that they do something to better society, technology, or something. I call it the Clinton Blowjob Rule (all politicians should have easy access to legal prostitution imo, it's such a lazy 'scandal' compared to, you know, the last 4 years of actual damaging horseshit)

Anyway. Maybe Chris needs a blowjob.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Tale on March 17, 2021, 12:08:01 AM
2020, which was their tenth year of failing to deliver a spaceship game, was their best funding year yet.

Perhaps players' vain hope of funding it to completion, to play it in lockdown.

P.S. I initially mistyped players as payers.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on March 17, 2021, 07:24:10 AM
A grifter who knows how hard it is for people to accept sunk costs is a successful grifter. "Just one more installment! We're almost there!"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on March 18, 2021, 02:22:38 PM
P.S. I initially mistyped players as payers.

P.P.S. You got it right the first time.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on March 18, 2021, 07:58:10 PM
Musk? Roberts? Gonna go with mutant nanoweinerbrain curt schilling who just had a giant snitty man-tanty and declared that we bostonians have just been HORRIBLE to him so they're moving away


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on March 18, 2021, 08:30:58 PM
Musk? Roberts? Gonna go with mutant nanoweinerbrain curt schilling who just had a giant snitty man-tanty and declared that we bostonians have just been HORRIBLE to him so they're moving away

Obviously not a Bostonian, but on behalf of Boston, he can get fucked.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on March 24, 2021, 08:15:43 PM
We need our review of Cuck, sir.

Star citizen is too boring, guess I have to


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on May 01, 2021, 10:52:56 PM
https://streamable.com/gb1143


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on May 02, 2021, 07:08:30 PM
It's like Elite only it's not a galaxy full of stars, it's a solar system full of undiscovered bugs. Maybe you will be the one to find a new one!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Bungee on May 18, 2021, 01:15:34 AM
Sounds promising. Website is a bit bugged though :P

I open the site in Opera, and I get a countdown with an "enter access code" message. I am, however, unable to actually click on the text-entry field and enter the code.
I open the site in IE 8 (oh, hush) and I never see the countdown, but instead skip directly to a welcome letter and an enlist button :P

Page 1 of this thread.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on May 18, 2021, 07:44:59 PM
* Jacques Cousteau voice *

$300 million later...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on September 10, 2021, 02:46:09 AM
The next big gameplay addition is coming to Star Citizen: Making injury and death a bigger pain in the ass to deal with! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f47-lobg1_c) Can't wait to see videos of people getting crippled when bugs cause them to randomly get injured when getting out of their ship or something. Experience all the fun of slowly limping, having more limitations of where to respawn when you die, dropping the gear you have on you when you die, or hoping one of the 49 other people on the server at the time feels like flying for 15 minutes somewhere to give you a rez.

Also they're doing the thing again where they talk about how they're adjusting development so features will be more fully implemented when they're put in the game (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/this-is-an-alteration-in-release-strategy-scl-vide) which I believe is at least the 3rd time they've made claims like that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on September 10, 2021, 02:48:53 AM
Also worth noting that tomorrow is the 9 year anniversary of the start of this thread.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on September 10, 2021, 08:50:55 AM
This is like waiting for your investments in the Iraqi Dinar and Vienamese Dong to make you rich, but just in case you also bought Zimbabwean Dollars to cover yourself.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on September 10, 2021, 10:53:57 AM
Also worth noting that tomorrow is the 9 year anniversary of the start of this thread.

That is fucking crazy.  Even if this game suddenly came out and was technically perfect, it would be out-of-date and uninteresting.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Korachia on September 10, 2021, 11:38:54 AM
Incredible this has continued for so long. I wonder how the employees who have been there from the start think and feel about the tripe they have been on.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Gimfain on September 10, 2021, 01:28:27 PM
i bet they are thrilled about having employment for another 5 years since there is no immediate risk of being kicked out when the game releases.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mandella on September 10, 2021, 04:22:53 PM
The next big gameplay addition is coming to Star Citizen: Making injury and death a bigger pain in the ass to deal with! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f47-lobg1_c) Can't wait to see videos of people getting crippled when bugs cause them to randomly get injured when getting out of their ship or something. Experience all the fun of slowly limping, having more limitations of where to respawn when you die, dropping the gear you have on you when you die, or hoping one of the 49 other people on the server at the time feels like flying for 15 minutes somewhere to give you a rez.

Also they're doing the thing again where they talk about how they're adjusting development so features will be more fully implemented when they're put in the game (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/this-is-an-alteration-in-release-strategy-scl-vide) which I believe is at least the 3rd time they've made claims like that.

This is beautiful.

I so much want to see Samprimary's crushed, burned, and epileptic character continue to soldier on in a space wheelchair.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: 01101010 on September 10, 2021, 05:54:03 PM
i bet they are thrilled about having employment for another 5 years since there is no immediate risk of being kicked out when the game releases.

 :why_so_serious: :drill: :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Kageru on September 10, 2021, 06:09:45 PM
How do they still have money...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on September 10, 2021, 06:16:32 PM
People keep buying .jpgs of space ships, obviously.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on September 10, 2021, 07:57:32 PM
Star Citizen - the original NFT.

That they have not moved to cryptocoin seems like a missed opportunity to me.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Zetor on September 10, 2021, 10:56:31 PM
Star Citizen - the original NFT.

That they have not moved to cryptocoin seems like a missed opportunity to me.
"This Is Good For Citcoin."

How do they still have money...
This has been bothering me too. How long can they keep this going? I have two groups of friends who've backed SC (none of them are whales, this is in the two-three digit $ range). One group has become super jaded by around 2019 and are in the "I'll care about SC if/when it ever comes out" camp now. The second group was much more devoted and is still holding on to hope*, but even they are dropping sarcastic quips nowadays about 'four more years of alpha' ever so often. None of them have been putting money into SC for a long time... so WHO IS?! (I assume the answer is something like 'a few dozen 1% gigawhales')

* my favorite quote from one guy was: "The teams making ships aren't the teams blocking the development of the game, so quit complaining about new ships"


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on September 11, 2021, 01:16:30 AM
If you really want to drill into the numbers or look over charts all the data has apparently been compiled here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tMAP0fg-AKScI3S3VjrDW3OaLO4zgBA1RSYoQOQoNSI/edit#gid=1694467207). The Monthly Funding Visualized chart (3rd chart down on the right-hand side) shows that funding saw a fairly decent increase in 2019, exploded in 2020, and 2021 has slowed down slightly but is still well past where 2019 was at this point. Maybe people are spending more time at home with their space jpegs because of the pandemic and that's causing an increase in funding, but aside from that I have no idea why the numbers even saw an increase in 2019.

The community has only seemed to get more and more insular over the years and it's not like CIG is a presence at any of the major game expos so I'm not sure where they'd be bringing any substantial amount of new players in from. Even on major gaming forums like GAF and ResetEra, the SC fans seem to have given up on trying to evangelize SC to the masses. I don't even know what the whales would be buying at this point unless they're spending money just to spend it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on September 11, 2021, 02:25:38 AM
The other thing is that while $384,000,000 is a pretty good amount for not actually shipping a completed product (especially for Chris and family who I've sure ended up with a large chunk of that), after 9 years and with the size of the teams they've had for a while now, I feel like they probably could have made quite a bit more than that had they released a couple games in that time instead. If they had just focused on a Wing Commander spiritual successor rather than trying to cobble one together with the same tech they're using for the persistent universe, they probably could have had it out the door already along with a couple expansion packs or a sequel.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on September 11, 2021, 08:55:00 AM
I cannot believe they've raised $40 million dollars this year alone. What the hell are people buying? It's got to just be whales whaling very hard, because like Vel said there's no advertising or anything pushing new players in. Looking at the chart, do they have some big push in May every year? 2020 and 2021 it was a huge month for them.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on September 11, 2021, 10:34:43 AM
Incredible this has continued for so long. I wonder how the employees who have been there from the start think and feel about the tripe they have been on.
They're excited for the prospect of their children carrying on their work.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Mandella on September 11, 2021, 11:09:56 AM
If you really want to drill into the numbers or look over charts all the data has apparently been compiled here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tMAP0fg-AKScI3S3VjrDW3OaLO4zgBA1RSYoQOQoNSI/edit#gid=1694467207). The Monthly Funding Visualized chart (3rd chart down on the right-hand side) shows that funding saw a fairly decent increase in 2019, exploded in 2020, and 2021 has slowed down slightly but is still well past where 2019 was at this point. Maybe people are spending more time at home with their space jpegs because of the pandemic and that's causing an increase in funding, but aside from that I have no idea why the numbers even saw an increase in 2019.

The community has only seemed to get more and more insular over the years and it's not like CIG is a presence at any of the major game expos so I'm not sure where they'd be bringing any substantial amount of new players in from. Even on major gaming forums like GAF and ResetEra, the SC fans seem to have given up on trying to evangelize SC to the masses. I don't even know what the whales would be buying at this point unless they're spending money just to spend it.

Money for gaming is super weird right now and I don't pretend to understand it. Off topic from Star Citizen, but one of my fav tabletop RPGs just did a little Kickstarter to re-release some of their older content, cleaned up for their most recent rules and such. They wanted 30 grand -- they just crossed 500 thousand at the close. Now I like this game (Delta Green if you are interested) and I chipped in $30.00 to get the reprints, but half a mil? This game wasn't ever really all that popular, and is basically three or four guys in Canada doing it all.

So good for them, I guess.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on September 11, 2021, 11:17:07 AM
Also worth noting that tomorrow is the 9 year anniversary of the start of this thread.
That is fucking crazy.  Even if this game suddenly came out and was technically perfect, it would be out-of-date and uninteresting.
The game does look nice, though, when it's working properly. They certainly aren't skimping on the visuals.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on September 15, 2021, 04:13:39 PM
It feels as if they need their own cryptocurrency that can only be mined IN GAME, and only with the most expensive ship types.

BAM! There's another ten years of life for this mofo right there.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on September 16, 2021, 06:37:55 AM
It feels as if they need their own cryptocurrency that can only be mined IN GAME, and only with the most expensive ship types.

BAM! There's another ten years of life for this mofo right there.

NFT space stations


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rasix on September 16, 2021, 02:15:44 PM
There's no universe in where NFTs aren't the logical conclusion to this whole debacle. If I didn't already have GERD, I would now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Abagadro on September 16, 2021, 09:25:54 PM
A scam "game" called Star Atlas has beat them to the NFT ships market.  SC may get there eventually but that bunch has the jump on them.

A chunk of the money recently raised is from some South African billionaire dope named Calder and his kid.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on October 10, 2021, 12:58:49 AM
(https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1QfYcv_yWNGENYG-NURI9TNv65GB84K-d)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: penfold on October 17, 2021, 05:23:58 AM
I pop into Star Citizen threads once every year or two and nothing seems to have changed. Still not out. Still bringing in money. Still a big scam. I see fans still evangelising about it on socmedia guess im just seeing the latest generation of mugs early on in their fanboi cycle. At some point the influx of fresh rubes dries up but kinda impressive that point still hasnt been reached.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on October 17, 2021, 09:42:04 AM
Ya, I looked at the Reddit after Velorath posted and it was basically "Hey! There was a planet with clouds!" repeated 100 times.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on October 17, 2021, 05:52:28 PM
Ya, I looked at the Reddit after Velorath posted and it was basically "Hey! There was a planet with clouds!" repeated 100 times.

It's probably not near the top anymore, but there was also a long thread there when one of the devs pretty much acknowledged on Twitter that even when they get their magic "server meshing" technology implemented that it's pretty unlikely that the game will ever have everyone playing on a global server.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 23, 2021, 01:48:39 AM
I pop into Star Citizen threads once every year or two and nothing seems to have changed.

UM sorry sweaty but if you think nothing changed, you obviously missed the part where the ptu was so comically poorly implemented that it produced the world's first "PvP through medical malpractice" meta, smh look at you thinking that this game isn't trailblazing shit daily


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 23, 2021, 02:04:44 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FCHiVBmVUAUmzgH?format=png&name=900x900)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 23, 2021, 02:08:20 AM
participating in MALPRACTICE BASED PVP was fuckin tight

like here we were sneaking around on space stations dressed like normal NPCs in various standard clothing and NPC walking so you couldn't see us, then like as soon as people started trying to summon their ships to hangar we would just bust out our medical injectors and start pumping a player full of drugs, all while screaming TRUST ME I'M A DOCTOR

and they fuckin pass out and we're all going DOCTOR THE PATIENT IS COVERED IN EXPENSIVE GEAR, ITS A MEDICAL EMERGENCY WE HAVE TO GET HIM TO SURGERY STAT and we drag them to a ship and fly them out of the armistice zone and loot all their stuff and then eject them out of an airlock and they're all free floating in space while we try to clobber them with flybys and we're like laughing so hard we're dying. IM A DOCTOR IM A DOCTOR we say each time jumping on people like jackals. each time we are solidly astounded that nobody at the game studio was like "oh we should do something to keep people from doing this" and making a very common sense protection against the Medical Malpractice Meta and we're fucking crying, it's astounding, each time we're doing it to someone it's always some fucking true-ass believer with hundreds upon hundreds of dollars invested in this garbo pile who believers in Chris's Vision and they take it on themselves to defend the game and just be like 'there's sure to be some bumps in the alpha road' for year nine in a row as we like abduct them en masse from ports and push them out airlocks to try to form them up like bowling pins in space. i have laughed so hard my sides hurt the next day


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on October 23, 2021, 09:34:19 AM
Space Citizen 13 seems like a good game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on October 23, 2021, 10:10:57 AM
Lol, wait a minute....there is PvP in this broke ass game?  I mean, I should probably already have known that, but it seems way too broken to introduce something like that so foolishly.  I thought it was just flying down to planet surfaces and accidentally dying in the cargo hold.

Also, for roughly 7 years now there is an occasional post in this thread, and every time there is a flash where I think to myself "huh, I wonder if somebody is posting about a reported release date, that would be something".


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Zetor on October 23, 2021, 10:29:24 AM
Is Starfleet Dental active in Star Citizen? Sounds like this is right up their alley...


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on October 23, 2021, 07:54:57 PM
Also, for roughly 7 years now there is an occasional post in this thread, and every time there is a flash where I think to myself "huh, I wonder if somebody is posting about a reported release date, that would be something".

lmao_u_sweet_summer_child.gif


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on October 23, 2021, 08:43:12 PM
Answer the Call: 2016


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on October 23, 2021, 10:56:13 PM
TRUST ME I'M A DOCTOR

Your description had me rolling. Please tell me there is a video.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on October 25, 2021, 12:16:05 AM
Always fun to see people start to realize a game can't actually be all things to all people. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/pledge-armor-and-guns-new-plan-to-sort-of-return-i)

Quote
If I understood the show today, the new idea is that we will no longer have a planned store to re-buy lost concierge, subscriber, or RSI-site-bought guns and armor. We can instead ask the cops to return the items we lost if the person that is holding the items goes to prison. So, uh, what if they never get sent to prison?

Seems like this is wide open to abuse. Send an item to an alt character that you don't really play often and stuff it in their hab, now it's gone for good? Will cops eventually raid a hab to look for a stolen pair of slacks? Or what if we just send it drifting into space?

This information will shape my future pledge decisions. Sort of takes the fun out of snagging those limited time items from the store. Not saying CIG should change the plan, but I do think there should be a disclaimer on non-vehicle pledge purchases: "Warning, this 15 dollar mining outfit will probably be gone forever when you die."


Who could have ever foreseen there being issues implementing full looting of players in a game where people spend tons of real money on stuff?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on October 25, 2021, 05:20:08 AM
That thread is a goldmine. There are a bunch of people debating insurance fraud in there. :uhrr: :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on October 26, 2021, 08:03:31 PM
Golly, that's fun, let's rediscover Dread Lord Days as it never happened.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on October 26, 2021, 08:37:51 PM
Everybody wants to loot their kills. They just don't want to be looted.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on November 12, 2021, 02:19:48 PM
this patch is the "DO NOT GO TO JAIL" patch

new system implemented: jail is bad, don't go there

- updated new jail badness
- implemented new "oh i really dont want to go to jail" functionality
- increased jail going-to-is-badness by 7142%
- new regrets added as part of above
- living decapitation
- no head


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Chimpy on November 12, 2021, 09:21:34 PM
you should just review Cuck already.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on November 13, 2021, 01:30:30 PM
It really is hilarious seeing the same lessons learned over and over again. Except for the "don't give sketchy devs thousands of dollars for imaginary space ships", that lesson never gets learned by the people inclined to do it, apparently.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Der Helm on November 17, 2021, 06:54:53 AM
I hop into the Star Citizen Twitch category every once in a while (1700 people watching other people play Star Citizen right now  :ye_gods: ).

If you manage to catch someone streaming their new player experience, it is actually hilarious.

I have watched some guy working to complete a simple delivery mission of the course of 2 hours, mainly because he could not figure out the UI and because his cargo got stuck in his ship when he dropped the boxes he was delivering into his tiny cargo hold.

I watched the same guy trying to pick up said boxes for 10 minutes straight, every time he would enter the ship on the left side and trying to interact with the package would trigger an animation to leave the ship on the right side.

Over and over again.

I was laughing so hard I cried and I almost passed out.

11/10, would recommend.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on November 18, 2021, 10:22:25 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfYpoW5jvk8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMHPDx4P6Y0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1fDpVum0Qw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztPrzy6m_Pw


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on November 21, 2021, 10:36:03 AM
Oh, god, you are killing me! :drill:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on November 21, 2021, 07:11:04 PM
What I love is that you might think "ok, headlessness, that's just a glitch, I really have a head somewhere and it's just not displaying" only it kinda seems like the game engine is like "nope, you are actually headless, sorry, you die."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Surlyboi on November 30, 2021, 02:23:47 PM
It’s the, “Oh…oh” that gets me.  :awesome_for_real:

Also, Roberts is probably pissed that Meta is hijacking his grift by selling a virtual yacht for 300k.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on January 01, 2022, 08:22:08 AM
Fun reddit post here: "Downvote away, but it is what it is... 3 out of 18 planned items actually made it into 3.16's release". (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/rpo4vz/downvote_away_but_it_is_what_it_is_3_out_of_18/)



(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/332545464610062337/926178450329436181/unknown.png?width=683&height=663)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on January 01, 2022, 09:44:18 AM
Dynamic door alignment? Head textures update? What the fuck are they even working on?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Chimpy on January 02, 2022, 06:16:58 AM
Fixing samprimary’s head issues?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on January 02, 2022, 06:44:14 AM
They are working on the review of "Cuck."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Soulflame on January 02, 2022, 11:03:24 AM
Dynamic door alignment? Head textures update? What the fuck are they even working on?

Grifting.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on January 02, 2022, 11:55:39 AM
They could have swapped nouns around and it would have made the same amount of sense.  Dynamic head alignment.  Door texture updates.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Speedy Cerviche on January 04, 2022, 10:54:59 AM
Good news for Chris. Looks like there's a lot more dumb money ready to pile into this kind of nonsense. With his experience, his services should be in high demand.

The lessons of second life and star citizen are quickly forgotten. People lining up to pay big bucks for a "limited" supply of nothing in what are just essentially 3rd rate video games/VR chat rooms.
https://www.wsj.com/video/series/current-features/investors-buy-up-metaverse-real-estate-in-virtual-land-boom/9620D8C3-3B38-48F7-9019-5C20F52D68CB


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on January 05, 2022, 09:14:17 AM
Look, the fact that Chris Roberts hasn't started selling NFT's of the spaceships, screenshots, videos and whatever else he can gin up tells me he might not be the smartest grifter in the room.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: slog on January 05, 2022, 11:34:45 AM
Look, the fact that Chris Roberts hasn't started selling NFT's of the spaceships, screenshots, videos and whatever else he can gin up tells me he might not be the smartest grifter in the room.

I can see him drinking his own Kewl-Aide


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on January 06, 2022, 07:25:41 AM
Ya, everything I've read about Roberts is that he honestly believes his own kool aid. But like a lot of Narcissists he is deeply ashamed inside and is afraid that if he lets other people shine with their talent it will make him look bad, so he is continuously ripping up his staffs work and telling them to start again.

What he needs is to hire an asshole. A guy that will override him, ride the staff like a cowbow, but who WILL get projects done on time and on budget. The "Coffee is for Closers" type of dude. But he wont, becasue that would mean losing control of the project, and will make the Mighty Chris's management look bad by comparison.

Besides, why should he? He has already made his money on this thing. The rest is hard work, so might as will kick back and do hookers and blow, and quietly shut down when people stop caring.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on January 06, 2022, 01:53:17 PM
I just don't believe he believes that all is well and Star Citizen is the best. I'm not even sure Serek Dmart could manage that level of "no, really, I'm a genius" at this point. Except of course he is a genius in the sense that he understood just how badly some people want to play a game that is as complex as life, only in space and you can't die or get STDs or get stuck spending your life at a space desk filing space reports.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: lamaros on January 06, 2022, 03:29:32 PM
I just don't believe he believes that all is well and Star Citizen is the best. I'm not even sure Serek Dmart could manage that level of "no, really, I'm a genius" at this point. Except of course he is a genius in the sense that he understood just how badly some people want to play a game that is as complex as life, only in space and you can't die or get STDs or get stuck spending your life at a space desk filing space reports.


That's not anything new, really. There have been horrible MMOs that have sucked in people for stuff like this before. The difference is Roberts is good enough at making it look shiny and unscrupulous enough to take the money up front to get a real feedback loop going.

Not sure if it's genius as much as right guy at the right time, but hard to deny they've bottled something.. even if it's not really good for anyone.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on January 06, 2022, 04:35:04 PM
It mostly works by not releasing, and requiring such a high investment to get access to whatever does exist that the sunk cost fallacy kicks in hard. Once it actually releases it will either crash and burn, or just be played by the same 500 people who keep lighting money on fire every time they conjure up a new spaceship jpg.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on January 06, 2022, 06:23:49 PM
There were, after all, people waiting to pay money for fetuspults long after Glitchless spent the entire $500 he'd earned at a year's worth of lunches at Five Guys.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on January 06, 2022, 10:15:19 PM
I just don't believe he believes that all is well and Star Citizen is the best. I'm not even sure Serek Dmart could manage that level of "no, really, I'm a genius" at this point. Except of course he is a genius in the sense that he understood just how badly some people want to play a game that is as complex as life, only in space and you can't die or get STDs or get stuck spending your life at a space desk filing space reports.


That's not anything new, really. There have been horrible MMOs that have sucked in people for stuff like this before. The difference is Roberts is good enough at making it look shiny and unscrupulous enough to take the money up front to get a real feedback loop going.

Not sure if it's genius as much as right guy at the right time, but hard to deny they've bottled something.. even if it's not really good for anyone.

I wouldn’t say it’s genius. Including money kicked in by their actual investors, they’re at around $500 million over 9 years past their kickstarter which seems like a great little scam having never completed development on anything. If they had hired some small teams to make cell phone cash in games or some other small scale, actually releasable stuff though they could have made a lot more than that. For the number of employees their company has, they’re making comparatively fuck all for revenue compared to similar sized publishers/developers I’m guessing.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on January 07, 2022, 02:57:36 AM
There were, after all, people waiting to pay money for fetuspults long after Glitchless spent the entire $500 he'd earned at a year's worth of lunches at Five Guys.


if i had a nickel for every time my mother said that to me verbatim


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on January 07, 2022, 03:05:19 AM
anyway so this game is really fucking fun now. it's sporting some really atmospheric graphics, some really extremely tight gameplay loops strongly utilizing 6 degree freedom flying, and an almost diabloesque looter-shooter concept for upgrades. kind of an engaging story too. i highly recommend it for a quick early access playthrough, really seems like its going places and that the crew building it really knew what they were doing and focused on consistent progress in a very well managed scope


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on January 07, 2022, 03:09:06 AM
this is pretty cool actually like i'm having a blast just shootin shit up in my spaceship and there's no real bugs and the graphical performance is really well optimized already so everything plays smooth even at 4k. like this is totally great. i'm really proud of what they accomplished with this ten years and four fucking the fuck hundred shitting fuckdollars. really comin together


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on January 07, 2022, 03:12:41 AM
oh shit my bad guys it turns out this isn't star citizen at all? i'm actually playing the "Everspace 2" early access release. sorry about that i just got them confused a bit


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on January 07, 2022, 07:13:48 AM
 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Soulflame on January 07, 2022, 11:18:48 AM
Quote
"Everspace 2" early access release.

Forty entire real world earth dollars?!

This is an outrage.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on January 07, 2022, 04:35:07 PM
Can't you pay for ships they haven't made yet? I demand this as a feature!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Count Nerfedalot on January 07, 2022, 04:39:28 PM
Quote
"Everspace 2" early access release.

Forty entire real world earth dollars?!

This is an outrage.

and you don't even get a limited edition starship and super elite membership credits with that?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Draegan on January 08, 2022, 08:00:39 AM
I played the demo. Looks fun.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: 01101010 on January 12, 2022, 04:36:45 PM
In similar news, the grift is real and is expanding...

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/12/investors-are-paying-millions-for-virtual-land-in-the-metaverse.html

Quote
It’s no secret the real estate market is skyrocketing, but the Covid pandemic is creating another little-known land rush. Indeed, some investors are paying millions for plots of land — not in New York or Beverly Hills. In fact, the plots do not physically exist here on Earth.

Rather, the land is located online, in a set of virtual worlds that tech insiders have dubbed the metaverse. Prices for plots have soared as much as 500% in the last few months ever since Facebook announced it was going all-in on virtual reality, even changing its corporate name to Meta Platforms.
....
Another hot metaverse world is the Sandbox, where Janine Yorio’s virtual real estate development company, Republic Realm, spent a record $4.3 million on a parcel of virtual land.
Yorio tells CNBC her company sold 100 virtual private islands last year for $15,000 each. “Today, they’re selling for about $300,000 each, which is coincidentally the same as the average home price in America,” she said.

Virtual spaceships, virtual 'land plots' ... where is all this liquid money coming from these days?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on January 12, 2022, 05:00:39 PM
It's everywhere because the people who have money pouring into them don't have anywhere else to spend it. The real world is already owned and leveraged up the wazoo.

If you were in Star Wars: Galaxies back from launch, you saw a few people who knew the zero-day exploits make insane money by having crafting vendors up with high-end gear by Day 4 or so while everyone else was laboriously making low-end pistols by the thousands and deleting them. Those people made such insane money and then there was absolutely nothing to really buy with it--but it was a permanent gap that no one else could ever approach and so they could do all sorts of dumb shit with their permanent edge just for shits and giggles. (And then when people started the Jedi grind, they could make even more crazy money supplyng it.)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Surlyboi on January 12, 2022, 11:54:24 PM
Can confirm. I got gouged like a motherfucker as a pre-9 jedi.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Hoax on January 13, 2022, 04:33:45 PM
I don't get mocking the metaverse stuff, the ground floor guys tend to make out with piles of ROI on stupidass shit like this if they cash out. They certainly did in SL and Star Citizen and Crypto and NFT's


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on January 13, 2022, 05:39:05 PM

If you were in Star Wars: Galaxies back from launch, you saw a few people who knew the zero-day exploits make insane money by having crafting vendors up with high-end gear by Day 4 or so while everyone else was laboriously making low-end pistols by the thousands and deleting them. Those people made such insane money and then there was absolutely nothing to really buy with it--but it was a permanent gap that no one else could ever approach...

That's exactly what happened with New World. And the only way to fix it would be a rollback to before the exploits were notices, and that would piss off their players, and a lot of them would quit. So they are stuck with it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ashamanchill on January 13, 2022, 08:55:04 PM
I don't get mocking the metaverse stuff, the ground floor guys tend to make out with piles of ROI on stupidass shit like this if they cash out. They certainly did in SL and Star Citizen and Crypto and NFT's

That doesn't make their legions of willful imbeciles any less fanatically annoying.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on February 03, 2022, 04:47:13 PM
the roadmap to the roadmap to the roadmap has been delayed


You guys don't deserve the roadmaps they gave you. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/18520-Roadmap-Roundup-February-2nd-2021)

Quote
It has become abundantly clear to us that despite our best efforts to communicate the fluidity of development, and how features marked as Tentative should sincerely not be relied upon, the general focus of many of our most passionate players has continued to lead them to interpret anything on the Release View as a promise. We want to acknowledge that not all of you saw it that way; many took our new focus and our words to heart and understood exactly what we tried to convey. But there still remains a very loud contingent of Roadmap watchers who see projections as promises. And their continued noise every time we shift deliverables has become a distraction both internally at CIG and within our community, as well as to prospective Star Citizen fans watching from the sidelines at our Open Development communications.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on February 03, 2022, 05:46:58 PM
A pool table, don't you understand?
Friend, either you're closing your eyes
To a situation you do not wish to acknowledge
Or you are not aware of the caliber of disaster indicated
By the presence of a pool table in your community
Well, ya got trouble my friend, right here


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Der Helm on February 07, 2022, 12:44:14 AM
That whole post behind that link is insanity.

But thank the gods ...

Quote
The following card has been added to the Alpha 3.17 column:

Coffee Shop Vendor

Area 18 is getting a new, interactable coffee shop. The AI will interact with three new usables – Hot drink dispenser, soft drink dispenser, and drinks fridge – to serve the player with a variety of new drinks.

 :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sir T on February 07, 2022, 02:32:14 AM
“This devil’s drink is delicious. We should cheat the devil by baptizing it.” Pope Clement VIII on trying Coffee for the first time.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on February 07, 2022, 09:50:27 AM
I'm sure the insane people who are committed to playing this are going to enjoy several months of their characters dying due to the new coffee service clipping through the character heads and resulting in instant death.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Rendakor on February 07, 2022, 01:29:59 PM
I was hoping the coffee would burn or freeze them to death.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ashamanchill on February 07, 2022, 02:05:08 PM
Or the coffee is made of dark matter, and crumples the game world with its negative energy.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on February 07, 2022, 02:28:22 PM
Coffee (caffeine) needs to give a temp buff or literally unplayable.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Soulflame on February 07, 2022, 04:04:14 PM
The coffee is also cursed.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Ashamanchill on February 07, 2022, 04:10:43 PM
But it comes with your choice of NFT!


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Der Helm on February 08, 2022, 03:26:43 AM
But it comes with your choice of NFT!
I am now addicted to Star Citizen drama.

Watched a few YouTube videos, apparently they had a Christmas calender going, with some free gifts, some coupons for cheaper ships AND, on Christmas day, a picture of a quadbike that they sell for 30$ with some attached NFT related shenanigans.

The mixture of righteous rage and copium huffing is intoxicating. It feels like this particular train-wreck is finally closing in on its final destination.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Speedy Cerviche on February 18, 2022, 07:30:44 AM
You could always sell a NFT collection of famous moments of the Starcitizen saga.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on May 21, 2022, 07:11:33 PM
We're just over three months away from this thread being 10 years old and so I present to you an excerpt from from a recent update on Squadron 42 development: (https://mailchi.mp/cloudimperiumgames/squadron-42-update-146756)


Quote
“Specifically for Squadron 42 (Sq42), AI Content revamped the ‘sleep and bed relaxation’ activity started last year, which enables NPCs to realistically pass time in their bunks or sleeping quarters. Now, an NPC will find its bed and enter it before closing the privacy shutters and sleeping until they’re scheduled to do another activity.
 
“We knew early on that, to hit the fidelity we expect for Sq42, we would need to do some R&D on bedsheet deformation. This work is currently underway and, if successful, will allow the AI to deform their sheets when entering, exiting, or sleeping inside them. This is a challenging assignment and expands the complexity of the feature. For example, what happens to the sheets if the AI needs to exit the bed in an emergency?”


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on May 21, 2022, 07:23:48 PM
need to be able to shit in beds to really recreate the amber heard lifestyle


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on May 21, 2022, 08:59:47 PM
What in the actual fuck makes any of that necessary? Like what kind of interaction does an AI need to process when it's not in contact with a PC? Why would you spend processing power (or programming effort for that matter) detailing what happens in the literal sense of "a tree falls in the woods with no one around to hear it" situations, instead of just extrapolating the possibilities of an NPCs environment when a PC actually interacts with it and scripting those?

It's definitely not just the fans of this game that are absolutely insane - it's any designer that thought that kind of thing needed to be approached that way.

Or Chris Roberts is just playing the longest game of performance art we've ever seen.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Falconeer on May 22, 2022, 05:43:12 AM
There is a very long video that explains very well why they keep doing shit like that. Granted, we actually all know that so the video is indeed useless, but since Haem asked...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9x7QppQabk


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on May 22, 2022, 10:51:59 AM
I absolutely love how he blew up his ship on takeoff because he hit the hanger roof:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9x7QppQabk&t=1820s

Edit: at 30m 20s for a bit of exposition leading up to the event


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on May 22, 2022, 06:57:57 PM
Holy shit, the bloat in that guy's video is basically a weird parody/tribute to Star Citizen itself. How many times does he say the same fucking thing? "It's very uncertain how much things are uncertain, but if you think about it, you have to be uncertain. Perhaps very uncertain, perhaps not uncertain enough, perhaps too much. If we knew more, we might be less uncertain, but maybe we would be more certain. It's just not very certain. But perhaps it is."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Count Nerfedalot on May 25, 2022, 07:26:16 AM
When greed and incompetence meet fanboy religious fervor you get  ... what looks from the outside like brilliant satirical performance art?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on September 18, 2022, 01:27:02 AM
This thread is over a decade old now.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Teleku on September 18, 2022, 03:49:30 AM
(https://c.tenor.com/b8WAqSZ2k7AAAAAC/savingprivateryan-ww2.gif)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: schild on September 18, 2022, 08:54:12 PM
This thread is over a decade old now.


and samprimary probably has 200 hours logged in SC and 0 logged in reviewing cuck


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cyrrex on September 19, 2022, 10:08:37 AM
To be fair, his SC reviews have been well worth those hundreds of hours.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on September 20, 2022, 07:47:36 AM
(https://i.redd.it/d0s8oagaj0p91.png)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on October 06, 2022, 12:57:09 AM

(https://dto9r5vaiz7bu.cloudfront.net/rpcw11r9pxwdu/tavern_upload_medium.png)


And the only reasonable reaction: (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/xwbi1o/comment/ir5ym2l/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)

(https://dto9r5vaiz7bu.cloudfront.net/d8mz7qwaai9sy/tavern_upload_medium.jpg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on October 06, 2022, 07:50:51 AM
If there ever is a "post-mortem" panel of an actual game as opposed to a bunch of backers standing around a stitched-together corpse screaming "LIFE! I GIVE YOU LIFE!", the post-mortem panel will have to be as long as The Sorrow and the Pity.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on October 06, 2022, 07:59:28 AM
backers standing around a stitched-together corpse screaming "LIFE! I GIVE YOU LIFE!"

It's definitely going to be this one.  I can't believe they haven't declared themselves a religion yet so they can go full Scientology.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on October 06, 2022, 08:17:56 AM
Fanbase so nuts they could be on the ballot in November.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in the cockpit.
Post by: Samwise on October 06, 2022, 08:38:19 AM
words
You are like a litmus test for disaster.

OMG..... You might be right. Please go out and support Romney. You have an amazing superpower... USE IT WELL!

How did I forget this exchange?  And how did MrB not get "litmus test for disaster" as a grief title?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on October 12, 2022, 01:34:18 AM
A decade in and they're still reworking something as fundamental as the flight system (https://www.dualshockers.com/squadron-42-feature-revamped-flight-ai-mobiglass/) and (eventually) adding in a skill system (https://www.dualshockers.com/star-citizen-gets-skills-techniques-system/). It's almost like they still haven't actually done any solid design work on this game.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Soulflame on October 12, 2022, 06:50:15 AM
All the design work has gone into the grifting portion of the product, and that has worked brilliantly.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: 01101010 on October 12, 2022, 08:37:25 AM
They sold a lot of picture files though.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Sky on March 14, 2023, 08:56:56 AM
https://www.pcgamer.com/the-launch-of-star-citizens-biggest-update-has-been-a-shambles-and-players-are-frustrated-this-is-embarrassingly-bad/

In other news, the sun rose after once again setting yesterday.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on March 14, 2023, 04:11:42 PM
The hardcore fans on Star Citizen make Jesus seem like a nasty grudge-keeper. There is literally nothing they cannot forgive. They could take the game offline for six months and patch in nothing but more realistic pubic hair for avatars and those people would be like "I've been waiting for that feature, and it's worth the down time."


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on March 14, 2023, 07:03:53 PM
It's even more entertaining that despite the fact that their servers have been on fire since they released the new page, they decided to go ahead and post up an advertisement video for it anyway. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMMOZMhpDMg)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on March 14, 2023, 07:18:24 PM
The Beast must be fed.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: 01101010 on March 14, 2023, 08:08:44 PM
The hardcore fans on Star Citizen make Jesus seem like a nasty grudge-keeper. There is literally nothing they cannot forgive. They could take the game offline for six months and patch in nothing but more realistic pubic hair for avatars and those people would be like "I've been waiting for that feature, and it's worth the down time."


PS: here's more moneys


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on March 31, 2023, 02:35:10 PM
It's Star Citizen 40k! (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/127qaxv/noticing_40k_bugs_getting_more_attention_please/)

40k being the abbreviation for the bug that has prevented some people from being able to log in for weeks now. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/40014-preventing-your-login-you-aren-t-alone-here-)


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on March 31, 2023, 07:27:44 PM
This never stops being amusing. Not the least the people saying "it's still in alpha, bugs that shut you out of a game for a month are normal" in apparent seriousness.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on April 09, 2023, 05:42:11 PM
i've been functionally unable to even play star citizen for ... well, looks like a month ago officially now. most people haven't been able to. i've actually been locked out of the game for so long that i finished watching cuck


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cheddar on April 09, 2023, 06:05:29 PM
Join the official discord, it has a ton of info.

https://discord.gg/5t9pb499 

 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on April 09, 2023, 06:06:28 PM
A decade in and they're still reworking something as fundamental as the flight system (https://www.dualshockers.com/squadron-42-feature-revamped-flight-ai-mobiglass/) and (eventually) adding in a skill system (https://www.dualshockers.com/star-citizen-gets-skills-techniques-system/). It's almost like they still haven't actually done any solid design work on this game.

one of the interesting parts about the whole flight model overhaul (Planned, so who the fuck knows when that would even happen) is that there's a cadre of PvP obsessives who have carefully worked all the ways to wring blood from the stone of SC's current player combat model and, in doing so, proved that it genuinely sucked and mostly had to do with testing your ability to laser-focus on a really tiny reticule with nearly all pvp combat in the game working out at effective ranges where your target is the usually the size of the head of a pin, and often devolves into 'jousting' passes similar to elite dangerous at its worst

core flight model should have been the first thing they worked out at the center of the game tech, it should not be something they toss out a decade in to replace with .. something? that nobody's even sure they know how to design? but they're just doing the thing that every competent space fighting game figured out a long, long time ago: you emulate WW1-WW2 era dogfighting style range and tracking and do everything in your power to make it work out with that general feel, with swoops and dives and tailing people and all that. it's just the natural area of fun flight combat.

but i will not assume confidently that they have the competence to do even that, so for now and into the indefinite future the current flight model is a limbo state of "we don't want to put any more work into it because it's going to be overhauled, but the overhaul never comes" and it's janky as fuck


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on April 09, 2023, 06:11:31 PM
i finished watching cuck

If Star Citizen indirectly results in us getting our long-awaited Cuck review, my $250k pledge will have finally been worth it.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on April 09, 2023, 06:21:00 PM
originally the joke was going to be that the cuck review was the star citizen launch announcement but


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on April 09, 2023, 06:28:26 PM
They built a physics model in an engine they didn't understand and then tried to build spaceship combat up from that.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samprimary on April 09, 2023, 06:51:58 PM
i remember how piranha had to deal with cryengine being an absolute nightmare for development in MWO, and subsequently dropped it like radioactive shit in preference for (i think) unreal when they moved on to Mercenaries. they were literally willing to abandon the entirety of their existing codebase and physics assets and start from scratch rather than go through the nightmare of cryengine development again. the documentation was apparently absolute shit, and all that

star citizen has been fucking around with years of tech debt buildup since semi-maneuvering it to lumberyard or whatever's up with that, and in the meantime i have no doubt there's lots of coder churn, so probably a lot of their ugly stringy codebase was built by people who aren't around anymore and everything done to try to desperately shoehorn in new updates is built out of patchwork desperation to just make it through to the next event

the whole thing is ... i mean i can't say it's definitely unsalvageable, but whenever i hop back in to play, it sure feels like it. we long ago reached the point where every update breaks elevators, that's just a feature now. update? elevators broke


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Cheddar on April 09, 2023, 06:55:33 PM
i remember how piranha had to deal with cryengine being an absolute nightmare for development in MWO, and subsequently dropped it like radioactive shit in preference for (i think) unreal when they moved on to Mercenaries. they were literally willing to abandon the entirety of their existing codebase and physics assets and start from scratch rather than go through the nightmare of cryengine development again. the documentation was apparently absolute shit, and all that

star citizen has been fucking around with years of tech debt buildup since semi-maneuvering it to lumberyard or whatever's up with that, and in the meantime i have no doubt there's lots of coder churn, so probably a lot of their ugly stringy codebase was built by people who aren't around anymore and everything done to try to desperately shoehorn in new updates is built out of patchwork desperation to just make it through to the next event

the whole thing is ... i mean i can't say it's definitely unsalvageable, but whenever i hop back in to play, it sure feels like it. we long ago reached the point where every update breaks elevators, that's just a feature now. update? elevators broke

Dude, join https://discord.gg/5t9pb499


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on April 09, 2023, 07:23:07 PM
New converts are always the most obnoxious proselytizers.   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Chimpy on April 09, 2023, 07:50:28 PM
I thought the discord link wasn’t supposed to be outside politics so the googles can’t find it?


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Velorath on April 09, 2023, 08:09:27 PM
https://discord.gg/SYH3ty6t

Just to make sure we have a current Discord server link.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Samwise on April 09, 2023, 08:17:39 PM
Do you want the heavy hitters?  Because this is how you get heavy hitters.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Khaldun on October 19, 2024, 06:05:35 PM
https://wccftech.com/star-citizen-expose-paints-a-fairly-bleak-picture-theres-no-actual-focus-on-getting-the-game-done/

Never fails to amuse.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Trippy on October 19, 2024, 09:23:15 PM
Squadron 42 still another two years away.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: Comstar on October 20, 2024, 05:36:06 AM
Squadron 42 still another two years away.

And the 1 hour PROLOGUE which consists of unskippable cutscenes, some turret shooting and some walking on rails.


And 6 or so baddies to run straight towards you and take one clip each to kill.


Title: Re: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN
Post by: HaemishM on October 20, 2024, 08:48:22 AM
Squadron 42 still another two years away.


In perpetuity.