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Watching Heroes last night w/ the wife, she totally called that the kid's dad is the silent black dude working w/ the cheerleader's father.  (Forgive me I'm horrible with names.)

We also talked about Silar and  have 2 theories right now.  Mine: Silar is Mr. Cantidate's brother; he's gone evil, asborbed the powers from the other Heroes and come back in time to stop/ screw with them.  Hers: Silar is the two brother's Dad.

I know this was just a typo, but I really enjoyed taking some time to figure out how to pronounce that.

That'll tech men ot to speelchek

I think I am agree with your theory, hopefully we'll get a little clue tonight. So, is the cheerleaders dad really a good guy then?

Multiple heros, multiple baddies. Season 1 will be Mr. Dad, Season 2 the fall of Kiddo & some other baddie as the main arc.

The jury is still out on what category half of them fall under imo. Ali Larter's character. The candidate.  I'm not even sure about the painter. Seems like the weak/traitor type. He'll screw someone over eventually.

Only Hiro and Peter and idealistic enough to want to be heroes.

[EDIT]

Oh yeah. The kid's dad is not the brainwashing dude.

Oddly enough though, he looks just like him. Your wife deserves some points at least.

....

The cheerleader's dad is totally not good. He's the Heroes version of Cancer Man.

That's pretty cool. I haven't had a chance to watch tonights episode, but I will probably make time tomorrow, so be prepared for more stupid questions. Sorry guys, I just seem to miss a lot when I watch these types of shows.

So you're seeing the black guy shown in their house as the kid's dad, i.e. a different person from the brainwashing dude? No, it's the brainwashing dude. He's wearing the symbol around his neck in that shot. But given what happened to the quarterback, is the kid's dad the same person he always was, or has brainwashing dude been placed into the kid's dad's body? Sorry, that's complicated.

My question from the series so far: when the kid was in his babysitter's house in ep 2 or 3, he made a phone call from her kitchen. He was asking the person on the other end something. When the babysitter walked into the room he hung up and she asked him who he was talking to, seemingly thinking he was talking to an imaginary friend. He covered it up ... but wtf was he doing?

Black guy is the brainwashing dude.

Kids dad who controls the black guy (Let's call him G Man) will join the regular heroes at the end of the season to stop Syler.

G Man will become an outspoken enemy of the mutants in the government. Black guy will betray him.

Or at least, I just hope to god the G Man becomes a martyr and Syler gets killed. I want ONE DANGER each season with a riveting storyline like this one.

My only problem is how G Man gets around so fast. Motherfucker has a special power. There's 4 of him or something.

He takes a government jet?

He's in Vegas, flies back home to take care of the family thing/damage control, then jets back to follow the trail of  the shirtless wonder. If he's bossing around an investigative team and has a lab to handle interrogation, he's got enough  power to fly on the peoples dime 24-7.

If this was Lost, we'd be spending half the episode on  GMan's college days and his trip to India,  wondering  what the fuck this has to do with anything until right at the end, where we can go, "Oh. OK. . ."

The product placements are nearly laughable in their  directness.  I know more about the  Nissan Versa than I do about my wife's car.

No, it's not. The Brainwasher (Mr. Talleyman) is clean-shaven, DL (the hot blonde's husband) has a little soul patch beard. They look similar in that they are both black and bald, but that's it. Mr. Talleyman is played by Jimmy Jean-Louis (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1097515/) and DL is played by Leonard Roberts (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0731346/) according to IMDB.

The symbol is going to have some consequences for something, but it isn't unique to one individual.

Those episodes aren't long enough. I end each week cursing the shortness of 1 hour.

My parents asked me about Heroes so I guess it has broad appeal.

I think Peter is a Hero Teacher.  Not only can he use other's powers, but he can do them better and teach others to do it better.  Soon painter guy won't need drugs to paint the future.

So isn't this what Syler does too (learn other people's powers)? Makes me think that Merusk and his wife really were right in saying Peter and his brother are related to him.

Either way, I guess Peter is Superman now. The ability to fly, in and of itself, wasn't really going to cut it.

Peter is a mimic. He can copy others' powers, but only if in close proximity. Syler, OTOH, may have the same power, but may also believe that by ingesting the others' brains, he can gain their powers. At least that's my guess.

Heroes won the night for NBC. It's being considered the  biggest hit of the new shows and will probably break top 10 in the coming weeks with solid weekly gains in viewership. It's mainstream, or close to it at this point.

One of the guys at work told me that the ladies in our accounting dept. (all of them older than 40) were downloading last night's episode of Heroes to watch at lunch (from NBC - young whippersnappers like me grab torrents). Yeah, it's got mad broad appeal. From The FutonCritic:


It's doing quite well.

Yeah my wife was completly wrong about the Kid's father.  I thought that she was correct based on the 'coming this season' blurb after the marathon sunday.  The shots of DL were quick enough I don't feel /TOO/ bad about confusing him with Mr. Mindwipe.

Besides that, it would have been one too many coincidences linking people together for me to take.


Development of powers.  Hiro has to get pretty badass to be able to stop time around one person, move backwards through it and then take off without anymore Dragonball-esque 'I'm shitting myself' grunting & clenching. 

 I still suspect Peter will turn out to be related to Syler somehow.

I just hope we get to see some more of those morally ambiguous situations (Mr. Candidate taking the high $, Hiro et al. gambling, The Cheerleader smashing her car).  I eat that kind of shit up, because it all goes back to the "if you had such and such power, what would you do?".  Plus, it keeps us guessing about hero or villian.

I'm looking forward to seeing Evil Twin converse with herself Tyler Durden style.  As for G-Man, I believe he's just obsessed with seeing what's going on, it will get worse and worse, then he'll remember that he loves his daughter or some predictable shit like that.

DL is apparently a "killer".  Would love to see how he comes back into grace with his family.

If those online comics are part of the official lore, then it seems like DL pays for the crimes of Evil Twin.

Nice, that's what I was figuring, but I like to be surprised :-D

They are part of official lore. The web site says the stories happen between the lines. In the first issue, Mohinder sees his dad's cab and it's torn to shit like Godzilla got at it. I don't remember that from the first episode, but it would mean Syler is definitely his killer.

I thought the brains angle was all X-Files-y -- they are "studying" them to learn their powers and what-not.  They are all from some genetic experiment conspiracy.

Syller isn't connected with the G-Man.

My coworker also think that Syler is Peter come back from the future, and gone bad, (or maybe to try and stop some thing).

I agree with Haemish, the two black guys look kind of the same, but its not the same guy.


Also, I said from the begining the there is just SO much going on in each episode, an hour really doesnt feel long enough, it seems like they just start to get good, and then its over. I am really thinking about just setting my DVR and recording like 4 episodes and watching them all at once, so I feel fulfilled.

It will get spoiled.

Edit: Test.

I could see Syller being Peter's father, but he's not a time traveler. Notice how most of the powers all seem fairly unique. Even Mr. Talleyman doesn't seem to have the same kind of telepathy as the cop.

Also, DL (hot chick's husband) has the same power as Kitty Pryde from X-Men. He can phase through shit, I think. At least that's what it looked like in the online graphic novel.

The preview for next week shows he can indeed phase through shit.

I think Hiro was able to go back in time to Peter's brother (forget his name now) because his brother has the ability to 'copy cat' powers - if he went back to anyone else in frozen time, they'd be frozen rather than able to interact with him.

Peter is the mimic.  Nathan is the flyer.

I still say his powers go beyond pure mimic. He seemed to have better control over the powers when he copied both Issac's and Nathan's powers even if he isn't as powerful with them.

I wouldn't say that. I don't see peter  breaking Mach one leaving Las Vegas, as Nathan did.

But it does explain how Hiro was able to talk to him

Really don't think DL is a killer, as someone suggested above.  Remember that Nikki found the ring of one of the people DL supposedly killed next to where her, um, mirror self told her to bury the mob guy bodies?  I think it's far more likely that Mirror Girl killed them to protect DL and DL just got the blame. 

I also think the cop is going to tell his wife that he can read her mind, she's going to freak out and leave him.  That is, if he's alive next episode after that convience store thing.

DL didn't do the crime he was convicted of. The graphic novel online shows him in prison. He's framed for robbing a bookies and killing a guy, but convinced he didn't do it. It may well be that Mirror Chick did the deed and blamed it on DL.

Hmm, couple comments: Love the show. Quit saying 1 hour isn't enough, because with the 15 commercial breadks, it's more like 32 minutes per week.

Now we know that both DL and Bad girl Stereotype have powers, we can assume that the son will as well. We already know he's extremely intelligent.

I'm curious as to whether the nuke is related to Syler or G-Man, or even both. I'm leaning towards G-Man due to the involvement of the cheerleader in the main plot, but they may all end up intertwined - especially since one of the later Peter paintings appears to show him being attacked by Syler.

It's clear G-Man isn't a nice guy, but what really evil thing has he done?  He seems to be your run-of-the-mill "Ends justify the Means" government spook. Nick Fury type.

I am just kinda curious about Gman and what he did with the cop if anything. Abduct him for a day then just release him with no memories. Curious if we will find out what that was all about.

kaid

One possibilty I've pondered is that G-Man may have done something to help awaken Cops telepathy. He went from barely picking up thoughts to being full fledged Jean Grey "Oh my God! I'm being assaulted by the voices!"

No cop this week. Yarg!

Claire seems to be catching on, and whoever said ms. pixie-face was an agent sure called it.

Didn't have quite the 'oh, damit!' ending of the last few weeks, but the preview makes next week look promising.  I wonder how Dad's going to explain having to choke mom through her chest.

I was also disappointed they didn't show the cop at all.  So far I kind of like this show.  I just hope it doesn't end up like Lost where they write the episode the night before it airs.  It always leaves me befuddled.

Night before it airs? What are you talking about? I thought Lost was live and they wrote parts during commercials.

This last episode seemed like it devoted a lot to Niki (and I still don't know much about her). Didn't say a whole lot outside that.

[edit]

Or maybe I should just say that it seems like the pace of the show has changed. Maybe because it has finally moved past the character intro stage.

I was interested that she referred to Isaac generically as "what do you want me to do with the pre-cog?". As if subjects with precognition are a familiar category to her, suggesting the abilities may not be one-of-a-kind (or perhaps they've talked about Isaac so often that he's simply become "the pre-cog" to them).

Well, we know that her alter ego is a sociopathic mass murderer with a body count much higher than Syler's so far.

I have trouble trying to figure out how Niki is going to fit in with the "Superheros" theme. Is she going to be a badguy? Is she going to merge with her other self? She just doesnt fit to me.

I want to see more of the Hero style stuff, like Peter and Hiro. And less of Niki looking confused and the Cop trying to save his marrage. I think that kind of stuff can come a bit later, but for now they need to develope their "Main" heros more. I still really like the show, but I figured out what was bugging me about it.

Heroes feels like it is more of a mini series, or a long movie cut in to chunks (Rome), than a episodic tv show ala Smallville. But you can tell the producers or editors decided they wanted each show to have a mini story arch. The only problem is, the mini archs dont work as well as the overall arch of the series, so a lot of times it leaves you feeling unfulfilled at the end of an episode. They need to stop having a begining middle and edning to each show, and just run with the overall series arch. I think that would make it a better more enjoyable show overall.

It's on episode 6. 

6.

Gyah.  Unless it's a 10 show run, they're doing well. I'm pretty glad they had less emo-Pete this time.  Fucker was annoying as hell on Gilmore Girls. As much as I haven't liked the whole Niki/ikiN story-line, I found this last one to be pretty enjoyable.

Long-story arc shows are pretty much all like this.  You have your main theme/plot/baddie for the season but each show can stand on its own merits.  It's still very early on, but I like the tightness of this show already.  Not too much useless meandering.

When I watched the first four episodes back-to-back it was great. Watching individual episodes since is too small a taste - I'll have to go cold turkey and binge again in December or something :)

Yeah, that's the downside to the series. It just fits together so well as mini story arcs as opposed to serialized episodes. In that respect, it's very much like the way comics are written now, where one issue feels incomplete but works out well in 6-issue arcs.

I did that with Eureka and liked it.  But then it disappeared.  It seems whenever I start liking some show, it goes POOF!  It makes me nervous to say how much I like Dexter. 

I love this show so far.  But ya, when I watched 2 ep's back to back, it was supergreat, and now, 1 by 1, it's a bit slow.  But I don't want to miss out on an episode and someone at work come up and ruin it for me.

I feel they're setting up Nikki for one of 2 outcomes (they talked about it being one choice and all that).  Either Good Nikki fights her way for control of her alterego and thereby gets superstrength (which I think is the superpower, not the twin thing, that's just psychosomatic), or Evil Nikki wtfpwns Good Nikki into some sort of bitch child who only comes out when that's most beneficial (primal fear!).

DL is a good guy, he might end up being the check for Nikki's darker side too, since finesse > str in this case.

I agree, I want more of Hiro, that guy takes the show everytime he's on.  All in all, I'm still really enjoying the whole "what would you do if you could freeze time" ideas.  In so far as character intro goes, I'm afraid if we get too entrenched in the story, introducing new characters will come a little harder (that new french guy on Lost, wtf is up with that, we don't care!).

Don't worry, Eureka's coming back in 2007. It's already renewed, and was apparently Sci-Fi's top-rated original show.

Oh good.  You're the one who told me about it in the first place, I think, and I was really enjoying it. 

Eureaka Kind of snuck up on me, but I'm liking the alternate seasons that Sci Fi / USA do. It's a great filler for those rerun periods on broadacast networks.

I so want Micha's power.  Touch the tech, fix the tech. Awesome. Looks like we have our explaination about the nuke as well.

However, is anyone else starting to see the coincidental links between the Heroes as being stretched just a little thin?  They had the perfect vehicle in the Comic book, but they seem too caught-up with the "oh oh oh, will the find out who each other are?!?!!" melodrama.

I think they are going to explain the coincidental meetings of all the players as part of the "magnetic attraction" effect, i.e. like attracts like. These guys are pulling so much energy that they are naturally drawn together.

As for the nuke, I'm thinking that it isn't the distraught husband, it's Syler gaining the distraught husband's powers by killing him and eating his brain. I don't think G-Man is a bad guy with nefarious plots, I just think he's a spook trying to keep a lid on the whole powers thing. The more I watch, the more I like Ali Larter's character Nikki. I think she's just a multiple personality where the Jessica personality has the powers of super-strength and super badassitude.

See, I figured it was a multiple personality thing, too, but Nikki was the dominant.  She's had a shitty life and is ultra-passive, so Jessica is her way of dealing with not only getting walked all over, but the freakish strength she's found out she has.

I agree on the Sylar going nuclear thing, rather than the husband.   I still have trouble with the whole 'magnetic attraction' explaination.  Seems a little too far-flung as it starts to tread on "destiny" grounds rather than evolution, which is what all the voiceovers are pushing.

They really need to stop spending so much time on meaningless or trivial side plots and work more on the major plot line. Honestly, Nikki is my leave favorite character and they probably have devoted 40% of the entire series to her. Its starting to get frustrating.

Yes, Nikki is the dominant, she's just fragile. Jessica is the protection mechanism.


The voiceovers are walking a line, asking the question is it destiny or evolution, but falling on the science portion of the explanation. But you have to remember that all the voiceovers are Mohinder, who doesn't buy into the destiny part anyway. Magnetic attraction isn't really about destiny so much as it is forces in the universe with such a srtong pull that sooner or later they come across each other forcefully.

Did anyone notice the tattoo that was forming on the cop right before he punched his friend? Was that just the beginning of the little S thing Nikki has, or did it look like a different symbol?

It looked like a different symbol and the radioactive man had it also. My friend thinks its going to be a different symbol for the good guys and the bad guys. Cause Nikki's symbol only shows up when she is evil nikki (Jennifer?).

Great, great show...Have loved every minute of it...

Couple thoughts...

Could the G-man and DL (nikki's husband) be twins/brothers (edit)?

Something bothers me about the cremation thing...How can we actually be sure that the cremated remains are actually the guy that was doing all the research (supposedly a good guy)?  Cant remember the dead Indian guys name, and I never saw the first episode.  What IF the Indian guy that is supposedly dead/cremated is Syler?

Seems a little cliche-ish, but...

We've already heard Syler's voice on the answering machine and it's not Mohinder's dad (Dr. Suresh).

forgot about that...

and thanks for the names...couldn't remember them...

just to throw this out there:  We've got people who can fly, phase through objects, bend space/time, 110 lb girl that can toss a 200 lb guy like a ragdoll....Someone having the ability to disguise their voice (or morph their body to something/someone else) wouldn't be too far of a stretch, no?

edit: or is it too convenient?

What about Peter? He could also end up with the nuke powers and he's potentially a vulnerable/emotional character too. He could end up accidentally becoming a risk while trying to "save the world", depending on the actions of his brother, his girlfriend, g-man, etc.

Nathan's wife is the hawtness, wheelchair or not.

I just thought of something. Syler... he's the dark side of Peter. I don't mean he's Peter with Nikki syndrome, I mean he's the batshit crazy equivalent to Peter. I think all the main character heroes we have seen so far are going to have dark side equivalents who will choose the darker paths, and Syler is the dark version of Peter.

Peter with the whole group around him is THE superhero. Haemish is right about  Sylar being the anti peter. The difference would be, that Peter matches Sylar when the group is together, but the group could also function at the same time. Working together, the group is much greater than the sum of its parts.

It also explains the "Save the cheerleader, save the world" concept. Peter, for all of his powers when the group is together, could still be picked off by a skilled opponent, like Sylar. Give him the indestructible regeneration quality of Cheerleader girl, and he's a walking  "I win" button.


I don't think there will be evil counterparts to the heroes, or at least living ones. I think Sylar consumes all the power he can, good or evil. Evil and teamwork don't exactly  got together, but evil and domination of one man's extension of will and power sounds entirely plausible.

I'd just like to repeat that they are "Lost-ing" the fuck out of this show.

Each episode is fun. So whats your hurry? There is no mystical endgame to reach here.

Great post. I think you're right. And it's all so cool.

How so? It still makes sense. Right there they have Lost beat.

My theory is there is some grand conspiracy involving DNA injections from the 40's.  That symbol that keeps showing up screams experiment. I agree G-Man is not evil, but he's definitely involved what with Shady Memory Wipe Man on his shoulder whenever he needs him.

As for why they all keep running into each other, I"m going to chock it up to evolution.  If these genetic mutations are truly evolution, then they should inspire some sort of community amongst those that are different.  Just like early humans congregating to each other for safety.  Just like religion manifesting itself to form stronger bonds amongst communities.

Syler eats brains.  That's an awesome evil power by itself.  He eats brains!  If he can gain powers by consuming other people, does this mean that special people can transfer their powers simply through blood, or is Syler's power that he can gain other peoples powers by consuming them?

I love me some Hiro.  Favorite character so far. I just hope they don't go and fuck it up by doing too much time-travel stuff.  Teleporting I don't mind.  Small breaks in time I don't mind.  But travelling into the past hasn't gone well for any single piece of fiction to my memory.

Worked out pretty well in that short story where the guy fathered and gave birth to himself.  But yeah, other than that you're right.

I thought the time travel parts of Babylon 5 worked out quite well.

Enjoying the show a great deal. Does give me the same sort of vibes as the first season of Lost though halfway through that season I started to come to the realization that they might not have any idea where they were going which was pretty much confirmed by the season finale. So far I feel that they've revealed enough information in Heroes that I feel that there is a real plot behind the whole thing and not strung together at the last minute. I agree that the pace could be a little tighter but it is rather a large cast which apparenytly is going to get even bigger over the next several weeks.

HRG is just a little too obvious as a bad guy and so far they've rarely telegraphed anything in this show. I think as others do that he's just keeping an eye on the people with emerging powers to see whether they are a threat or a boon. If he was evil, why not just lock up anyone with that he finds with powers and experiment on them at his leisure. Coupled with his behavior with the rapist quaterback where he could have just made sure he disappeared forever I haven't seen any actions on his part that could be described as out and out evil.

I'm beginning to think that the concentration on the whole Nikki plot might be sleight of hand. As is the Peter sub-plot. With the powers that Micah exhibited last night coupled with his obvious amazingly high intelligence I think he might be the key to the events for the first season. Quite interesting that he knows about mom's split personality. I think Haem is on to something with regards to the personality split. There doesn't seem to be any reason for it from the standpoint of the character or her superpower so possibly she created a second kick ass personality and submerged her knowledge of her emerging superpowers and invested them in Jessica.

Finally I was tremendously impressed with the way they had Nathan handle the whole blackmail scheme. Rather than having him simmer or rant about about being blackmailed he cooly turns it to his advantage and squeezes another $2 mill out of Lindermen. That scene right there convinced me that this show might not end up insulting my intelligence.

The latest Entertainment Weekly put Heroes on the cover (my wife's copy had Hiro, Cheerverine and Nathan; ymmv) and a big article inside to match.  It had a lot of spoilers actually (won't give them out here) and implied that this show, like so many others this season, is going on hiatus after just a few more episodes and then coming back in Feb. for the second half of the season.

The writers were very clear about one thing, however.  The do NOT want to become the show that makes it's viewers WAIT for the good stuff or leaves them with more questions than answers.  They have a plan, they swear it. (and they were pretty clearly aiming their digs at LOST just like you're saying)

Also, in addition to it replaying on SciFi Friday's at 7pm you can catch another rerun of show on Monday's at 7pm (previous week's show); just sayin'.

Bah stupid half seasons.

If they use the time of to reedit some of the shit and pick up the pace of the show just a tad I will be very happy. I think if they dont start having a bit more happen per episode they are going to start losing viewers.

There should be a pill against Instant Gratification disorder.

It sounded like (based on an online interview I saw a couple weeks back) that they were plotting things season by season.  They were aiming to tell a story that would have a resolution by the end of the season.  Then the next season, on to another season-long story/arc.  This seems a lot saner than having a grand five-year plan that risks never getting resolved depending on the whim of the network -- or claiming to have a grand plan and then winging it (as it sure feels like Lost is doing now). 

They (Kring I think) said that the format of their story lets them introduce new characters with various powers, show characters gaining/losing powers, and (I suspect) killing some off. 

Possible spoilers: It sounded like Sylar is the "main villain" for the first season and that everything is building towards Nov 8, which *isn't* in sync with the timeline out here in the real world.  I get the feeling that this season will end with (presumably) averting the explosion in NY and somehow defeating/capturing/something Sylar.

I do keep wondering if things are a little too straightforward at times, and hoping that some things that appear to maybe be very simplistic are less so.  I really can't tell if HRG is supposed to look like a bad guy, but actually just have an agenda and really care a lot for and be protective of his daughter after all -- or is the latter also just an act.  He keeps doing things that alternately make me think "whoah, evil bastard" and "hmm, maybe he's not quite *that* bad".

-Q

I can't wait for the obligatory flashback episode of the Dr. helping Syler figure out/unlock his power.

I mean, how the fuck do you find out that you're superpower is that you gain other people's superpowers by eating their brains.

Do you try nibbling off an ear first?

Syler is Mike Tyson?

He may not HAVE to eat their brains to gain their powers, that just may be the best way to RETAIN the powers permanently. He may have figured out he was a mimic, but was bothered by the temporary natuer of the power. It's not hard to find stories of cannibalism that claim that eating another person's grody bits gains you their power. Hell, watch Silence of the Lambs for that. And if he's bugfuck insane, munching on grey matter probably isn't that far of a step.

"All You Zombies," Robert Heinlein.

Yeah that'd be the one.  Storylines I'm good with, titles not so much.

Yah, lets cut out all of that character development crap and just have 45 minutes worth of explosions every week!

I don't see them losing viewers due to lack of stuff happening.  Enough people seem to be hooked on Lost where you get less than 50% of the show happening in the present.

Edit: At least I hope they don't start losing viewers... gah, my faith in humanity is very small and you're just reinforcing that.

I don't need 45 minutes of explosions, but I would be happy with.....One explosion an episode or two maybe?  8-)

I like drama too, but it is a show about a superheroes, after all. Gotta have explosions.

One can make a serious comic book based drama with explosions (X-Men 2). A comic story that's heavily drama based without explosions can only entertain for so long (Unbreakable).

The last episode had an explosion.

Ah, but I had to wait like 4 episodes for it! The last one was the nuke, I think (in a future sequence, no less).

[edit]

The last episode was pretty good though. I'm not really complaining. I just wouldn't want to see 3 seasons of Unbreakable if it came down to it.

I kind of like this show which makes me pretty sure it's already been marked for cancellatoin.

(http://sd-480.dedibox.fr/bestgraph/gifs/horreur/explosions/explosions-06.gif)

And a lot of people used their powers, which is always a bonus when watching heroes.

Same here, this is the only one I make any effort to watch. 

Unbreakable was the last good Shamalamadingdong filck there was, and it was pretty damn good. I could watch 3 episodes of it.

I dont give a fuck about explosions. I WANT character development, but honestly, with all the time spent on the Nikki story line, has her character really progressed that much? She has probably progresses the least out of all the characters, given the amount of screen time she gets. When I say I want "some thing" to happen, I mean with the story. Yeah, Lost was pretty bad about this, but they did advance the story and they did give out answers, if only to bring in 20 more questions for every answer. My problem with Heroes is that we are several months in and really the story has bearly progresses past what should be the third episode. Dont get me wrong I really like the show, but when I say losing viewers, I mean Joe Six-Pack and his ADD family. Just take a minute tonight and when the show is over, see how you feel, you feel like hardly anything happened, and that the show was to short. Then take an episode of Lost or some thing elsw like "Friday Night Lights", after watching an episode, you really felt like you got a full shows worth.

I can go to a buffet and eat all I want, or I can go buy a $30 Filet.

It's about satisfaction, not about feeling full.

And I never feel satisfied at the end of an episode, thats what im trying to say, it feels like a lot of filler with not much real meat.

Was there enough meat tonight?

My wife called HRG three episodes ago.  The only thing that would have been more satisfying was for the computer program to finish executing it's function at the end of the episode.

So it seems like everybody and their freaking brother in this show has some sort of power.

HRG?

Horn-Rimmed Glasses, the cheerleaders father

I liked calling him G-Man.

G-Man was better description.

Everyone has a power.  That's cool I guess, I mean, if they didn't, it wouldn't be as fun of a show.  Also, evolution follows the whole 'when it rains it pours' school of thought?

I really hope Mohinder doesn't have a power.  I like him being the voice of reason/skeptism, and it would be a cop-out imo if they gave him a power.  Let the little boy be some little boy somewhere.

The whole time Hiro was talking about travelling back in time, all I could think was what we previously voiced here "please don't time travel, please don't time travel, please don't time travel".

All in all, a great episode.  Moved stuff forward, answered a few questions.  Also, instilled more fear of truckers.

I think it only seems this way, because one of the rules of superpowers in this universe will be that people with powers are naturally drawn together. It's not co-incidence, it's like magnetism. But they don't realise this yet, and the viewer hasn't been told this yet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium)

I like where they are taking the characters this episode. HRG-Man is just like the other characters, he's neither a bad guy or a good guy. He's just a guy with goals, one of which is protect his daughter from the crazy brain-eater man. To that end, he'll do what it takes, just like Nathan's acceptance of Linderman's bribe. They are flawed characters, and thus human and I dig that.

More Hiro with sword, plzkthx.

Cool.

Also, I agree w/ Haem.  My favorite part of the show is them not really choosing the good or bad.

Mohinder seeming to have a power (seeing real events as if he were there, but dreaming) is kind of a letdown.  However, I'm willing to speculate that the kid in the dreams had the power to contact Mohinder in his dreams.  Or something. 

Anyway.

A bit disappointed that GMan is neither good nor bad.  I was hoping that he was bad, honestly.  But I can't say I didn't see it coming.  He was/is at times creepy, and "normal". 

The transformation of Hiro has been interesting.  Looks like he took a big step to being "bad ass Hiro with a katana" in the diner after the waitress's brains were scooped out

Continuity Problem with Hiro poofing out of the diner:  Are the cops going to come back and say "where is your friend?"  Why would his friend even be there if he went back in time to save the waitress?  If he's in the pic on the wall, it could be assumed that he was successful in warning her, therefore she shouldn't be dead - and her body wouldnt be in the meatwagon.  See where I am going with this?  (edit) I'm willing to throw out just about all realities when dealing with people that have powers, but I'm not quite willing to accept complete obvious gaps in time/space continium continuity.  Yeah.  That.

My fluxcapacitor just exploded.

I thought it was all the kid's power.

It seems Heroes uses "time as stream" metaphor. So Hiro changes the stream as he jumps down stream.  Up stream Ando, Hiro's friend, is wanting for changes.  At first the changes are too small to notice.  As Hiro does more important things, the larger the changes become.  Ando will notice changes because he's looking for it and knows Hiro is doing it.  But stream time travel makes more sense for a time manipulation superhero than Star Trekian quantum time.  Because hero is going to want to change things and create paradoxes left and right.

Of course this is all uber-nerd speculation, they haven't shown us enough about time travel to really know. 

I still don't understand.

Hiro mentioned he was risking "another" divergance by going back to tell Peter the "STCSTW" message.  It seems this will be our first, and we'll see exactly what the fallout is later.     One possibility is that they use the "Branch" theory, and each decision starts 2 (or more) forks.  Hiro jumped back, took another fork, but the Ando we know is stuck on one where we'll never see him again - as he is now. (He'd be in Vegas or Japan or whatever, depending on when Hiro jumped.)  Tho that'd be stupid.

Tried to post last night, but I couldnt for some reason.

Yes, I found this episode much much much more satisfying. They didnt spread the focus super thin over all the characters, and so they where able to get much more in depth with a few, and it felt like a more complete show. I am very glad we didnt have to hear Nikki whine about here son *again*, but I did miss Peter.

As for Mohinder, that research he found talked about the Kid having powers over dreams, so Im pretty sure its the kid and not him having powers.

If it was branch, then the Hiro's picture wouldn't be in Ando's current time.

MrHat: The key point is that Hiro's changes caused by jumping back may not have happened instanciously.  Although we see his picture, all the effects Hiro's changes aren't evident until propigates down stream. His picture is the first thing we see because he probably popped-in the middle of her party. 

Finally watched the last episode...

I like the new gray direction for G-Man.  :-)

Then again, Cancer Man started out as a fairly benign, albeit mysterious, character in the X-Files. Look where that went.

The more and more I watch, the more and more convinced I become that the person everyone's calling Sylar is actually a messed up Peter from the future.  He seemed to be watching Hiro pretty carefully, for one thing, and the broken watch also has to mean something, in my mind.  Maybe in an original timeline, there was a Sylar killing people, and future Peter's just taken his place/identity.  He seems awfully well informed, either way.

I'm pretty disappointed that that cute little redhead went out like that though. She would have been a good addition to the show.

She's too cute to die, Hiro saves her.

Did your TIVO cut out? 

Well, she still might die.

Nah, it didn't cut out. I just don't think Hiro's that powerful. Something else will happen.

They've gone too far to bring her back imo. They showed blood oozing down her head. She's dead for good. It's a TV rule or something..

Umm, went back in time? Might prevent it from happening? 

There's no argument she's dead.  He's going to attempt to change the timeline.   

I'm really not sure where you're going with this line of argument.  Sure, he might chicken out or realize what he's doing could have serious reprocussions, but he is THAT powerful.  He can stop it from happening by making sure it doesn't get to happen.   But umm.. stopping Sylar might be a tad difficult.

My Tivo DID cut out before the last minute or two of Heroes. I just today saw the last minute where it shows Hiro in the picture with cute waitress chick.

He looks decidedly unhappy, as if he knows he can't prevent what's going to happen.

As for Syler being future Peter, I'm not so sure about that. I could see how it COULD happen, but not according to the character.

Or he's surprised he teleported into the middle of her birthday party.

Ah shit. I guess I didn't see the end, after all.

Thanks today show  :mob:

They spilled the beans about tonight's show

_{Peter buys the farm tonight}

I approve of that last episode.  :hulk_rock:


Hiro's going to be on Conan tonight as well.

So this isn't going on a 2 month hiatus like all the other shows, is it?

I looked up and saw it was already 9:45.  So very few shows have ever caught me like tihs, I was pissed when I realized I only had 15 more mins for this week.

Really not happy with the fight between Sylar and Peter.  Very weak, very weak.

I liked it. Peter had no idea wtf he was doing, but....He was willing to sacrifice himself to protect the girl. That says enough.

My DVR cut out right when Hiro popped up at the end and started talking. Did anything important happen?

Show is going on a hiatus until February I think, Merusk.

Nothing special. He came back 6 months earlier and told the waitress he was there to save her life. She looked at him funny.

The very last scene with Niki was the cliffhanger.

No, looks like one more episode before hiatus - next week's is Six Months Ago which appears to be the origin stories for most of the characters. From the preview it looks like we'll meet Sylar as well as find out that Niki's evil twin apparently is her dead evil twin sister Jessica. Which is just getting freaky.

Tonight's episode was pretty damn good. We find out how Sylar slices off the tops of heads which is not quite what I expected. Claire has a mean right hook. Micah knows all about Jessica but hasn't bothered to tell Niki about it. DL apparently has a death wish if he's willing to go back and see Jessica/Niki. And Ando's superpower is that he can seemingly drink endless amounts of coffee.

Some interesting news around lately. Apparently Chistopher Eccleston (the last Doctor Who) will be getting a recurring role. And if you want to catch up, SciFi is going to be running a Heroes marathon on the 29th.

According to TVguide.com, we have to more episodes.  After that it (hopefully not) goes into the midseason hiatus.  Which sucks.

http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/heroes/281246

edit: Krytec beat me to it :P

Ah ok, I assumed that it was the last episode before hiatus since it was the end of a story-arc and whatnot. I'm pissed about it too since I leave for Navy recruit training in February.

Ohhh I hate to make a "me too!" post. But, Me Too!!!
This exact thing happened to me. They got to a commercial, I looked up at the clock and was all "wtf 8:45 already" (central time zone).

I had a feeling that Clare was going to save Peter, via inadvertent power-absorption. It didn't click for me until they were all at the HS, but I did figure it out before it happened :)

I have no idea what's going on with Hiro. The time travel thing is going to keep me confused until they spell it out, probably.

Sylar's face was shown at least twice in darkness, so I decided to mess with the gamma ...

(http://users.on.net/~svandore/pics/sylar/sylar_vs_peter_2.jpg)

(http://users.on.net/~svandore/pics/sylar/sylar_ground_1.jpg)

He has a ring of shaved or bald skin around his head, just under his cap line (about the same area he opens his victims' skulls). This ring can be seen when he is pushed to the ground to "sleep", as his cap moves. The other intriguing thing is Sylar's hand ... or rather, his Edward Scissorhand.

(http://users.on.net/~svandore/pics/sylar/sylar_hand_0.jpg) (http://users.on.net/~svandore/pics/sylar/sylar_hand_4.jpg) (http://users.on.net/~svandore/pics/sylar/sylar_hand_2.jpg)

I read somewhere that George Takei will also be making an appearance on the show at some point.

It would be nice, at some point, to find out what the hell this thread was all about.

A good look at Christopher Eccleston in an unusual but wonderful music video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBTpaxvtLOA).

I loved this episode. The fight scene worked pretty well, considering that Peter is not a trained fighter at all and probably wouldn't know how to fight a telekinetic in any case. I was thrilled that there will be more episodes.

IMDB is holding things close to the vest about Sylar's identity. He's not even listed in the cast credits, which is amazing. I think that means who the actor is will give something away. I'm betting on him being either Peter/Nathan's dad or long-lost thought dead brother.

He didn't seem old ehough to be their dad. Nice episode,I missed the cop and Hiro tough.

Could that be the reason he didn't munch on Peter's brains?  Or simply for the fact he thought Peter was dead and that eating his brains wouldn't benefit him?

He was likely 1) too freaked out that someone "special" opposed him, since I don't think he's had a real fight over his victims before, 2) he somehow survived the fall but wasn't at his best which is why the Pheromone chick could hold him up so easily, or 3) realized he'd been made and wanted to get away before being caught.

Maybe he didn't know that Peter even had superpowers? He was confused about the other cheerleader before, after all.

[edit]

Wow. Bad spelling.

This was my thinking as well.  Pete didn't exactly do anything "super" in front of him.  Dodged a couple of locker doors, told Claire to run and then proceeded to fall off a building and look dead.

That's my point.  All the others are starting to get control over their powers, except Peter, who fails around around like Screech. Lame.

I guess in Peter's defense if you're always coming up with random powers temporarily while you're around someone else with them, you wouldn't really have the time to their use.

On that same note, wouldn't Peter have mimicked Sylar's powers during their fight. Maybe he wasn't close enough to him to do it.

extra-spoileriffic link (http://heroeswiki.com/Zachary_Quinto) - do not click or even mouseover, if you want Sylar to remain mysterious.

He may not even have known Syler had powers; he didn't see what was done to the cheerleader. He also may not have been able to understand what Syler's powers were in the short time they were in close proximity. He could mimic Claire's powers because hers are spontaneous, whereas Syler's takes effort.

When Sylar was telekinetically throwing stuff at Peter it looked to me like Peter was telekinetically fending them off. Was that just my imagination?

Just your imagination. He got hit by the first two objects and decided to run.

Peter used Isaac's power better than Isaac has so far.

Peter has complete control over his powers. Did you see him pop his ankle and shit back into place after Claire left the scene? Peter is the ultimate hero in this show. He's also the most famous one. it's almost creepy to have watched him on the Gilmore Girls since he was in middle school. It's almost like he grew into Heroes.

Hiro goes back in time, somehow learns he can't change the past like he wished, and gives the waitress six months of travelling around the world like she always wanted, to give her a perfect end to her already fated life.

Maybe?

Did Peter touch Issac before he painted?  He grabbed Claire's hand as they were running, then was able to regen.  He was falling before his brother caught him, then he could fly.  I just don't recall any contact with Issac.

 No, he doesn't need to touch. It's the mere presence of.

Close presence.  And Peter doesn't seem to realize that he has acquired powers until he uses them.

Syler didn't attack Peter because Syler can't sense powers; he is attacking his targets based on their locations and identity, which he got from the Doctor's not-so-secret info.

No cop and no Hiro this week, but perhaps they are just pushing a grand mid-season cliffhanger for all the characters.

Here are my unanswered questions ATM.

Mohinder has left home again, despite strong efforts to dissuade him; are the folks back home merely skeptics, or believers with a secret agenda?

Hiro and the waitress; can he save her?

They saved a cheerleader; was it the right one?

Peter was found lying in a huge pool of blood; what happens when the cops find that most of it is his?

Nathan tried to stop Peter from going to Texas; how will Nathan and Peter react when they both realize that Peter has every flavor of courage, and Nathan has none?

How clueless is Homeland Security about super powers; does anyone else remember the Monty Python line that followed a nuclear explosion, "Even the police began to take notice."?

HRG and company; secret agents for X, budding mastermind group, or just curious bystanders?

HRG's operations; how is this funded, and why is HRG in charge?

They've caught Syler; now what do you do with a ruthless telekinetic who can tear steel just by concentrating?

The cop seems like a nice guy and a dedicated cop; what happens if he gets heaved from the force and his wife isn't over his now ex-buddy?

The cop wants answers, and the radioactive widower is the only source he knows of; how far will the cop go to save Mr. Atomic, particularly now that the authorities have demonstrated just how utterly clueless they are?

Jessica appears any time she thinks Micah's health and happiness is threatened; what happens when she discovers that she is now the biggest threat to that?

On another front, I've heard that Heroes has been picked up for a second season.

Am I the only one who doesn't give a shit about DL and Jessica/Whoever. I can't even be bothered to know their names most of the time. She's the weakest link on the show in terms of acting and well, yea, she just sucks time out of more interesting characters.

It would appear Hiro did not save the girl. There was the memorial thing up and the waitress at the restaraunt explicitly said Hiro disappeared shortly before the girl died.

Nathan will eventually, probably, become Peter's arch-nemesis. At which point they'll add some sort of shitty Blood is Thicker than Water bullshit to the show.

They're on a very thin line between awesome and campy. They need to start killing off people who don't have a very very specific purpose. Syler needs to escape and tear through some of the cast.

One of mine: why are so many of the main characters connected with Mr Linderman (http://heroeswiki.com/Mr._Linderman)?

No.  Just based on the reactions from most of us those two weeks that focused almost exclusively on Jessica, I'd say you're not alone.  Micah is the best part of that trio, and he's too young and tied to mom & dad to be interesting.


That was my question as well.  I have this dissapointing feeling they're going to play it out as 'small town cops + dead teenager + guy covered in blood = no forensic investigation'  so the cops can ignore the fact that Pete has none of the girl's blood on him.

Brother to the rescue imo.

HRG seems like the more likely rescue. Or Hiro.

Brother to the rescue, and history of mental illness.

FBI Lady also. Peter has plenty of "outs"

Yeah, Peter is way in the clear; my question is what do the police do when they follow the trail from Sylar's latest murder to where Peter was found?  Claire had to leave blood and/or tissue evidence at the original scene.  Locker doors ripped from their hinges without normal stress patterns? Vast quantities of blood without dead bodies to match?  Just how many impossibilities can the authorities ignore?


Except that the woman who tells Ando about Hiro and the waitress clearly didn't connect him to the day of the waitress's death, but acted like Ando showed up alone that day, so there is a major discrepancy from the original timeline, suggesting other changes may be possible, or may have occurred.  Perhaps the 'Rift' Hiro mentioned to Peter will be expanded upon in this arc.

They are always going to walk that line between awesome and campy, like any good show that ties the fantastic and the mundane.

As to Sylar, I'm hoping that he is more than just evil or crazy. If those are the whole of his motivations, it would be a loss of a great source of possible dramatic tension.

Maybe the G-Man gets that crazy dude to wipe the cops' minds.

But that's a BIG stretch, of course...

[edit]

On second thought...

Lol, that sucks. I apologize.  :-D

Yeah, Pete has a lot of outs, but that wasn't what I was getting at.  I wanted to see what happens when they find all that blood's his, but he doesn't have a mark on him.  That's why I did the little equation thing, because I don't think they're even going to touch on that, which is dissapointing.

The same thing that happened when DHS found Radiation guy but no source for the radiation...

Lock him in a deep dark leadlined cell?

Yeah, Peter has a ton of outs, but Mr. Bennett (HRG) is not one of them. I think mimics are the kinds of heroes he doesn't care about because they are unclassifable.

As for why Peter used Issac's power better than Issac? Peter wasn't wasted to the gills when he did so, he was making a conscious action with the power. I wonder if he'd have Jessica's powers if Nikki is in charge?

I don't mind the Nikki/DL story, because it has the hotness of Ali Larter and I think she's doing a good acting job with the character. Are they weaker than Peter or Hiro? Sure, but not to the point where I want them gone.

I think Peter might be serving jail time for an episode or three.  We have to catch up w/ Hiro/Ando/Charlie as well as DL/Jessica/Micah.  The only person with a big reason to rescue him from the authorities right now is Claire.

I dont mind the DL/Jessica/Micah thing because there are cool powers involved and I want to see Ando hook up w/ Nikki cuz that'd be funny as hell.

FBI is already involved.  Wouldnt be a stretch to say that they havent shared the information with the rest of the Federal Government.  IIRC, the FBI chick had said only 6 people knew the name Sylar.  How would that convo go anyway?  "Um, hello?  DHS?  Yes, this is the FBI.  We have news about an indestructable hottie cheerleader, a dude that can walk through walls, and a..."
<click>
"Hello?"

Count me on the band wagon of actually liking Ali Larter's character. Not exactly sure why, but I do.

As with most shows that kill of characters on occasion, they always kill of the bit characters I like. I was thoroughly confinced Sylar was going to kill pheremone girl. He probably still will, just to piss me off.

Heh. You know why shows kill characters you like? Because you like characters like Ali Larter's.

Actually I think Eden dies long before Jessica/Nikki

There's a fansite theory that the cop (Matt Parkman) is in a different time from the other characters, as his path has never crossed with anyone else's.

But presuming he is in the same time, the cheerleader murder investigation would have to put him and FBI-Audrey in a room with prime suspect (prior to blood tests) Peter Petrelli. Peter would get Matt's ability to hear thoughts, and Matt would hear his. That could quickly tie Matt's knowledge of radioactive man to Peter's knowledge of the upcoming nuclear explosion.

Sylar is off the streets, so the story narrows to a New York manhunt for radioactive man, involving several heroes working co-operatively for the first time (plus they're in Nathan Petrelli's city, so he must be involved somehow). Oh and at some point Hiro turns up with the waitress, having saved her and staged her death. The heroes find radioactive man, save the world and realise this is their future.

Team Hero is formed. Then the cliffhanger where Sylar turns out not to really be asleep and something hints at Team Evil. End of season one.


I do too. If nothing else, the acting is great. Nikki and Jessica, played by the same person without the aid of any costume change, carry themselves differently and seem like two different people.

That Niki episode a couple of weeks back almost single handedly made me start hating the show.

Not necessarily because of Ali Larter though.

The real question for me is; what is the show about?

For Claire and the Petrelli's, it has been about being who you are in public.

For Mohinder, it is about embracing the inner world of secret knowledge, and turning away from the superficial mundane world.

For Niki/Jessica, DL, and Micah, it is about how they can be a family, or not.

For Matt, it isn't so clear, is it a story about his marriage, or about being who he is, or some combination of the two?

For Issac, it's about survival.

For Hiro, it seems to be about what it means to be a hero.  One of the most interesting possible outcomes for his arc would be to find that he can save the waitress, but chooses not to, because of the cost to innocent bystanders.


While it is easy to compare this to something like X-men, it lacks the core premise of the X-men, the tension between mundanes and mutants.  It needs some core premise to emerge at some point in the relatively near future, so that the core premise can link all the lesser arcs and conflicts.  That seems to me to be a place where Sylar and/or the HRG group could really be important.

Son of a Bitch!  Fucking Cliches.

I need to rewatch it. Too many distractions.

What's the deal with Syler again? Is he trying to cure everyone?

I knew the waitress would be gone for good.

[edit] Nevermind. Got it.

(http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/5867/heroeslistho8.jpg)

Predictions? Who's going to become a character if they aren't already?

The show could use another female. That's all I can say.

You should watch Boston Legal. If you already do, watch it more.

Edit: Also, I really didn't like this last episode of Heroes.

I'll predict it'll be an American.

Not the best episode of  Heroes, but a useful one.

I liked the insight into Gabriel (Sylar), and it was a really good Hiro Episode. It explained why Super Congressman has the issues he has, particularly with his power.


And I definitely like the girl with the Dune Voice with short hair.

Which cliches? The "hero can't fix everything" cliche or the "abused girl makes multiple personality" cliche? I think we can expect a number of cliches out of a super hero story.

I loved last night's episode. Hiro just keeps getting pounded on, and I hope it's to shape him into badassitude with a samurai sword. The Sylar thing as watchmaker reminded me of Dr. Manhatten from the Watchmen series.

Since evolution is a main theme, I was think he's an evil Watchmaker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmaker_analogy) who thinks he can tinker with the powers and do better than evolution.

I admit the Hiro/Charlie love story was cute.  Now looking back at the first Charlie episode.  She had given up her dream to travel and knew her life was in emanate danger just to be with Hiro just a little bit longer.  But brain aneurysm?  Also it say the theory time travel is fate, except of course what writers deem worthy of changed.  Just an assload of Deus Ex Machina.

As far as Nikki/Jessica thing, I have come to expect that story to suck.  That it continues to suck is no surprise.

If we're lucky, that sniper rifle will misfire and take her ass out.

I dont understand why they spent so much time and effort making Syler a secret, and then he turned out to be some random new guy. Meh.

It was a decent episode, but I agree Nikki/Jessica story is just so "I dont care", I think she is doing a decent acting job, but her storyline is so "meh" that I just cant care. When they are showing her, I want them to just go back to any of the other characters.

Hiro is cool. I kind of like that some "cosmic fate" or some thing is keeping him from changing the past, it make the show much more easy for the writers, or the answer to every problem could be "Have Hiro go back and change it".

The thing is, he did change the past. The first time he met her in the diner was the first time for both of them. Then he went 6 months into the past and suddenly all the rest of the staff at the diner knew who he was because he'd been the waitress' boyfriend for a weeks back then.

If she'd just been going to be murdered I think he could have saved her from that. But having an inoperable brain aneurysm was something he couldn't help with.

Yeah, but he couldnt even stop her from being murdered cause the "cosmic force" made him teleport away, and then wouldnt let him come back.

I don't think she was murdered after he went back, but I could be wrong. I'll have to go back and watch the episodes again.

He couldn't save her. He said that he kept showing up. He went back, forward, everywhere. Could not save her.

If anything, his going back in time timeline changed the entire way Syler worked as he could've killed her earlier and absorbed the ability to memorize everything about all the heroes. This would help him in very, very obvious ways.

Re Sylar, I've seen this theory on another forum and I like it:

Sylar's original superpower is to see when things are broken and how to fix them, just by looking at them. This extends from watches to people. The Professor made him aware that powers occurr due to something technically "wrong" with a person. He looked into the telekinetic guy and told him he knew how to fix him, i.e. he saw into him like a clockwork watch.

This doesn't yet explain how he acquires their powers via their brains, but perhaps it's just through gaining an understanding of how their "deficiency" works and replicating it.

Hiro and Charlie:

He might have saved her from Sylar, but has anyone entertained the possibility that she died (aneurysm) before Sylar could get to her?  I don't recall if the diner still looked like a murder scene investigation or not....

Ando still knew about the murder when Hiro returned. So more than likely, Sylar really killed her.

In other news, it turns out some guy I've known for awhile is good friends with "Mohinder". His mom is some big doctor in my hometown too.

Any guesses as to which Hero doesn't make it, per the commercials?  DL is the obvious choice, but I've got my eye on Eden.

Micah.

According to the Candian preview I saw on the net, it might be the girl that can whisper suggestions.  They showed a fast clip of Sylar having her by the throat.

I really wish it would be Sylar that dies though.  Unless they can really explain this logic jump of him getting the powers from the other heroes, his character is just annoying.  Are they going to tell us he eats the brains or something?  Does he actually operate on his own brain?  Just knowing what is different about somebody's brain to make them have powers doesn't allow you to just have them.  Otherwise, he could do it without killing them and actually taking the brain.

He could diagnose the watch without even opening it for instance.

Ok, who is placing bets that they stop the guy from nuking himself by unleashing Sylar on him?

As I stated before, it has to be Eden as I made the mistake of decalring her my favorite bit character in the show.

That and the fact that she still only gets listed as a guest star each week.

Damnit.

That would be interesting as it would result in the crazy stripper chasing down the crazy watchmaker perhaps.  Maybe they'll end up killing each other and end two storylines I like the least.

"I really need to find that sword."

Damn, I haven't laughed that hard in weeks.   

And of course it was Bunk's call.  Jan 22nd seems so far away.

Bah.

Not at all pleased with tonights episode.  Guess I had it built up to too much.

Just.
Bah.

Huh.  For the most part, I loved it.  My only real complaint would be that I don't want to wait til the 22nd for a new episode. 

So, someone explain to me why Peter is sick?

It's labled (Spoilers) so no need for micro-text.    The radiation guy escaped police custody, so where would Pete have been exposed enough to catch a dose?

And where are Peter's visions coming from?  How ruthless is Mr. Bennet to do that to everyone who might have known about Clair's ability?  Including his wife, apparently a bunch of times.


Yeah, she was one of my favorites too.  I'd rather have seen a de-brained Niki/Jessica.

FYI - from this thread on November 8


Just call me Isaac :P

Pwnt.

It was almost sadly predictable.  The rest of the ep was solid though, and as usual Claire looked way hotter then any 17 yr old should...

I thought at the time that Peter was sick because his body hadn't done as good a job with the full healing from the fall as we thought.  He got the obvious stuff but didn't know how to use the regeneration well enough to heal all internal injuries or it was my favorite character the Haitian inadvertently screwing him up.

Makes sense. Blocking the healing ability, maybe even putting it backwards a little. His speciality is winding back people's brains, so why not the same for powers.

Claire visited Peter in his jail cell though, and Peter's powers were definitely still working at that point because of the whole Peter/Matt mindreading segment.  So whatever is affecting Peter has to be serious enough to actually exceed a second dose of Claire powered regen.

I think the most interesting part of the episode was that short part with the Haitian and Claire.  Seems there's a lot more to him than people realize.

Let me play Isaac for a change:

Beginning radation sickness same as human bomb guys sister? had. He snatched his power somehow.

Edit: His=human bomb guys

Mr. Haitian and Eden had some kind of agenda different from Mr. Bennett. Perhaps they have realized that Bennett's group is fucking with them and they are banding together to protect themselves and other specials. Maybe the Haitian is really a Xavier type, bringing everyone together. Maybe he's the one who has been tweaking Bennett to do what he's been doing all these years. After all, he does fuck with minds, who says he can't have been fucking with Bennett's.

Peter's sickness I can't quite fathom, unless Sylar gave him a whammy before walking off. Or maybe he's giving him a whammy from inside Peter's dreams. When Peter first woke up from that dream other than being freaked the fuck out. After being around Parkman, he starts getting sick. Maybe it was the Haitian, maybe it was Sylar from afar. We don't know what powers he's absorbed.

Sylar's deal is that he can see "how something works" and then fix it. He may not so much absorb other's powers, I think what he does is alter his own DNA after getting a peek at the special's brain which shows him how that power works. That's why Eden capped herself in the head, so he couldn't absorb her power.

I'm going to be that Micah has the same power as Sylar, he just hasn't figured out that he can fuck with people's (and his own) body yet. He can see how things work and fix them, but only if he can touch them (such as computer board's and payphones). Maybe he's constrained from doing it to people because he doesn't want to hurt them. Peter's ability to mimic a power isn't the same as Sylar's. Or I could be totally off.

Jan. 22 is a long goddamn time away.

I get the feeling that HRG guy's HRG's are like Magneto's helmet.  But I can't figure out a way to explain this.  It was nice to see that he's getting orders from somewhere though.  And the Haitian dude being 6-sides of awesome is nice too.

Re: Peter's sickness.  I'm still of the opinion that these mutations are a sickness, and that some mutants (for lack of a better word) die from it (Mohinder's sister).  Mr. Bennett said to Syler that he was losing his mind, maybe from changing his DNA so much.  Peter might have the same problem, but his body isn't coping well with undergoing so much genetic mutation.

I think Micah is super fucking smart + good with electronics.  I don't think it extends past that though.  And have we decided that Nikki was just batshit, or is her power Jessica?  If so, will Peter lose his fucking mind too?  Will there be a good Syler?  Why doesn't DL just ghost the bullet out of his shoulder?

I kept expecting him to do that, but it might have taken too much concentration with a light head from blood loss. Or he just might not have thought of it like us geeks.

Micah is Forge as a child.

The Haitian (which, btw, is the best superhero name ever), is one of the few super heroes with a completely passive power. It seems he doesn't even have to do anything to be a dampening field. That's pretty goddamn huge. Interesting though? Not so sure.

He was in custody in the same building as radioactive man....?

*sniff*  :crying_panda:

It was a good death scene though.

On Peter's sickness, I'm going with something to do with Peter absorbing Radioactive Man's power. I'm curious as to who he leached off of to pick up the psychic dream though.

Did you miss the episode where he fixed a broken payphone, just by looking at it?

He was just in contact with Mr Bennet and the Haitian, who had recently been in contact with Isaac.

He was just in contact with Matt and Audrey, who had recently been in contact with Radioactive Man.

Maybe as he learns more about his own power, he is becoming more sensitive to powers and picking them up second-hand?

Part of it is side effects from other powers, probably.  Like how he head a splitting headache as soon as Matt walked into the room, and then there was all the interference as their telepathy interfered with each other's.  Mostly, though, I bet it's just that he's gone from not accessing any more power than his brother's, and not using it, to suddenly finding himself with what, 10-12 powers all at once, or in a very short period of time, with several he was using.  He made physical contact with Sylar, so he's got however many powers Sylar has in his system, then Claire's, then Matt's and the Haitian's.  His body may not be coping too well with that, as he's not used to how his power works at all.  I think his body attunes to powers even if he doesn't know he can use them yet.  Once he's got a better hold on his powers, he may be able to use the powers before they're used on him to let his mind know "Oh.  I can do that now too." 

As to the dreams, I think his dreams are somehow tied with his core mutation, much like Sylar's abilities outside of what he's absorbed.  Peter had a dream about his brother way before he came into contact with Isaac or the girlfriend.  He seems to be able to form empathic bonds with people that somehow carry over into his dreams which seem prophetic, but not in the sense of Isaac's power.  Isaac can literally show what the future holds, Peter's visions appear to be full of more symbolism than that.  Also, somehow he seems to have been able to share that dream with the girlfriend's dying father before he died. 

BTW don't forget the "graphic novels" which add more details to the story: http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/novels/

I look at Peter as a battery. He doesn't know how to shut off the intake though and it's fucking his shit up. The radioactive thing that a combination of Hiro and Claire will fix, is the result of sucking in the radiation along with all the other shit brewing inside.

Also, once again, Micah is Forge.

Damn.

Eden was just getting cool too.

When he went temporarily ghostman when she shot him in the head it probably did drop out but hell he still has a hole in his chest from a large caliber rifle :)

Or perhaps the dreams were the first power he picked up -- perhaps with enough exposure things stick?  He apparently spent a lot of time with the dying father...

- Q

I'm surprised he hasn't had to run to the dentist half a dozen times to get all his fillings replaced. :)

Here's my thought.

Claire's father has a power. He's immune to other's powers.

Eden couldn't effect him, maybe his power screwed with Peter a bit.

I also like the theory that with all the other heroes around him it's overloading him and it's too much power.

Claire's father has been protected from others' powers by the Haitian. Notice Sylar did nothing while Mr. Bennett was there, but used his powers in force on Eden, when the Haitian was at Clarie's house not mindwiping her.

Are you sure? I don't recall the Haitian being there when Eden used the "Let me go" suggestion to HRG. I recall him saying something about being the one man that could resist her.

I'm still of the opinion that Mr.Bennet's glasses aren't for seeing things better.  They're to protect him against powers.  Same with that crazy room they had Syler in.  I think that Eden pushed a button at some point and deactivated whatever was holding Syler in, so she could use her power of suggestion to get him to shoot himself.  But he realized that the null field was gone.

Maybe the Haitian can imbue shit with his null power?

I'm going on the assumption that the Haitian is ALWAYS with Bennett unless he's got something else to do like wiping Claire's mom's mind.

I'm going to go with the idea that the Haitian is a red herring. I think he's always around when HRG is to make us assume that its the Haitian who is dampening things, when its really HRGs power.

Or maybe not. Maybe Sylar was just waiting for a juicy meal to come by before he tk'd his way out. Who knows.

I did forget that Peter had dreams about Nathan in the earlier episodes.

On a total tangent, since I forgot about mentioning it when I noticed it weeks ago. The earlier episodes that were in the Casino - anyone else notice it was the Montecito Casino? That happens to be the fictional casino that the series Las Vegas is based around. I thought that was a nice touch.

Consider this...

Bennett said that they've never encountered someone with more than one power when talking about Sylar.

So how can the Haitian have a nullification power AND a mind wiping power?

The Haitian's power is the ability to suppress certain things in the brain, whether that be memories or the triggers that cause powers to be activated.

Could he surpress things that aren't mind related then? Like Claire's regen?

Are you even watching the show !?!

All powers are brain-related.

I thought they were all genetic mutations...

That also.

I don't get the whole thing with the 'DNA tattoo'.  Obviously Mrs. Dual Personality clearly has one, and there was the situation with the Cop and Radioactive Man that they both had markings.  It gave me the impression that powers could be given to others, and I thought that was what HRG guy was responsible for:  inflicting the genetic mutations then tracking each person to see what happens.

But what do I know!

There are two different "DNA tattoos" and Mrs Dual Personality only has the one you're thinking of when she's in badass mode. The other is the "two dots" on the neck/shoulder of Parkman, nuke man, etc.

According to what I'm seeing in the Heroes graphic novel issue that accompanied the latest episode, Sylar doesn't escape after Eden killed herself. HRG and the Haitian show up and shoot him with tranqs.

Ya, I saw that too.  It was a good death for her.

I would have prefered it naked in a shower for her...

I liked the character and was sad to see her die, but it was nice to see that her last act was to ruin Sylar's little moment of triumph.

-Q

So I am watching the Heroes episodes again on nbc.com....I'm in the middle of the first episode (which I missed on its original air date), and when Peter and his mother are leaving the police station, they mention that Peter and Nathans father is dead.  So, all through the episodes that I have watched since, I don't remember it being mentioned until the second last episode (I think) that their father dies when Nathan is going to spill the beans about his illegal activities.

I'm confused...

If it is mentioned in the first episode that he is already dead, how can he die again later in the second to last episode?

That episode takes place 6 months prior to the current events.

Was that the episode that they sort of went back an reintroduced everyone?

Yeah, that's the one.

Not sure if anyone watched, but the last episode and the one right before "6 Months Ago" were shown back to back this past Monday. The series begins again on January 22nd. This coming Monday is an awards show not related to Heroes.

Are you on the List?

> Are you on the List?
Bleh. Are we going to have suffer a new idiotic slogan for every major story arc?

Yes, you are, but only because "You are not prepared!"

New episode tonight! Yay!

Well.
Thoughts?

Meh; it's been "coming together" for about 3 episodes now. Stop dragging it out. I like the show still, but you'd better be going somewhere with all of this or I'm going to lose interest.

Agreed. When a historical drama (i.e. Rome) has more intensity, action, and exciting things happening in every episode than a superhero show, then there's something wrong.

You fuckers sure get jaded quick. That episode was fine as the start to a second chapter, to intro some new characters and reset the status quo. There are probably at least 10 more new episodes coming (22 episode season) and a second season, so there's plenty of time to go balls to the wall.

EDIT: As for comparisons to Rome, Rome has 13-episodes and it's done. You pretty much HAVE to have action wall-to-wall. It's just two different writing styles.

I liked it.  Yeah, they spent some time sorta recovering old ground, but there were also several developments, and some groundwork set for the next few episodes, which look pretty promising.  I liked that we're seeing Sprague again, and what he's been up to. 

I'm not jaded. I've been saying this. I'd have to be a big fan first before being jaded.

I like the concept and all, and it does have it's moments, but at this point, I think I'm watching it in spite of the actual show itself. I want a show about heroes to be cool.

Yes, it's a different writing style, but it's one I don't like. I don't care for Lost either.

Rome goes for heavy character development too, but yet, Marc Antony is still understandable from the get go. Titus Pullo from the get go. In every scene, they're right there in your face, dominating the scenery, telling you to look at them, telling you exactly what they're all about. And then they keep surprising you somehow. The entire show is that way.

Heroes has probably spent 120 minutes total focusing on Peter's brooding face, and I still don't know who the fuck he is.

Thats what I have been saying from the get go. The show just doesnt give you any meat. Its all development, thats doesnt really develop anything. The only characters that have done much of anything are Hiro and Clair. They need to actually have "stuff happen". The whole "Save the Cheerleader" thing was sooooo anti-climactic. To save the cheerleader Peter just had to be there to run away and fall off a building. Come on. Lets have some thing super happen already.

I still enjoy the show, but when you are looking forward to Lost to "have something happen" you know the show is lagging.

So, in the episode, HRG gives Mohinder a business card with the following web address on it:

http://www.primatechpaper.com/

It's a real website on the internet with a Jobs section that requires a pass code to get into it. Looking at the Source html for that page, it looks like it could be "hacked" to give access to that section of the website. I wonder if NBC hid any goodies on this page...  :evil:

Or you can just call the phone number at get the message from there.   :-D

Bah!  Phones!


I don't think this part of the site has been implemented yet, for two reasons:

1) "f90ad64d3e6fc85b784c2b11595c1sa0" can't be a real hex MD5 digest, because it has an "s" in it.  There can't exist a string that will pass the test on the page.
2) The URL that would get popped up if you had the right code, http://www.primatechpaper.com/jobs (that's what the "unescape" ASCII glop translates to), doesn't have anything on it.

My guess is that the site will be updated just before the code is revealed in an upcoming episode.

Pass code is mt36. You can get it by calling their telephone number. I got an e-mail response a couple days after filling out the "app" It said they had no job openings that fitted my skill set.

Further proof, if any was needed, that I don't know JavaScript from a hole in a ground.   :oops:  (Why name a function "hex_md5" if the thing it returns isn't going to be in hex...?)

Subterfuge!

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroes_%28TV_series%29) has it covered, it seems.  This is yet another ARG or something similar....at least that's what the entry says under the heading, "Heroes 360 Experience."

Those are my complaints so far too.  They do not follow the traditional method of having small "shows" within a full season "show" that is within a larger "show" that spans the existence of the program.  Instead, we just see tiny bits of the overall "show" that could go on for years depending on the ratings.

My opinion is that they need to have smaller events happen with some beginnings and endings or people will start to lose interest.  Heck, I've lost it several times and just plain forgot to watch the show.  I have really had to struggle to keep up on this show only because I want more shows like this on Primetime.  I'm just glad they let you watch the past episodes on their website because I really only caught like 2 throughout the seaons on Monday night.

It is strange.  I really like to watch the show.  I find myself interested, but when it comes to fifteen minutes left I find myself looking at the clock and complaining that nothing actually happened AGAIN!  It drives me nuts.

I see where the disconnect is. You guys who think the show drifts are used to TV shows that have "filler" or self-contained episodes with overall arc stories interspersed. You like shows that have beginning/middle/end narratively-speaking. Heroes is one of those continuity shows that just continues. It's all mostly arc stories, or little pieces of the bigger story arc. I actually like the little pieces of the bigger arc story shows. A lot of shows that use self-contained episodes often make me feel like those episodes, while good, aren't as important. i.e. they are filler. Babylon 5 was like that. Though I enjoyed many of the filler episodes, they weren't as important to me as advancing the overall arc.

Great episode.

- The Invisible Man is now my favorite 'hero', along with the Haitian
- The introduction of Claire's mother was perfect
- Hiro is making steps to being 'Badass Hiro with swords and a soulpatch'
- The Syler thing was predictable, unfortunately
- Hiro's father showing up was priceless

So...Who is Claire's father?  Purple shirt, nice watch? 

Linderman. i.e. The Kingpin.


But yeah, good show. A lot happened.

Wouldn't that be just a little too obvious or convenient?

Why do you think that?

Everything about Linderman is "convenient". He has Hiro's sword. He collects Isaac's paintings. He has dealings with both Niki and Nathan. Seems like that guy has ties with everyone.

Claire's biological father? Hell, why not.

Her father is definitely someone mentioned in the show already. The sneak preview kind of made it out like he was someone at least vaguely familiar to the viewers (either that, or it's a famous actor we're all familiar with...But I doubt that's what they meant).

Whoever her dad is, I do think it's about that time to finally reveal Linderman though.

I can see your point.

My wife, who isn't as in to the show as I am, said it was (Claire's father) was Nathan.  He is old enough to be her father, and has shown he'll cheat on his wife.  Hell, he may not have been married when he fathered Claire, if it was him. 

Who knows.

I'm hoping it's not Linderman.  Though if it was someone unknown, they would (I believe) have introduced him this ep, rather than leaving it on a cliff hanger.

Did I miss something? Did I miss the last part of the ep? The last segment I saw was claire calling and a woman answering the phone saying she was her mother.

They have previews for the following week during the end credits.

New e-mail sent from PrimaTech this morning.

Odd, just clicking on teh logo gets you in....but no combo of usernames and passwords from what you posted gets you into the files beyond the first one -- which is rather nifty, and I guess makes sense if you just simply assume that THAT's the file you're to access.

As far as the show goes, I really enjoy it.  I don't see it as being such an issue that it's "slow."  I think it makes sense to develop the various characters and their powers slowly.  Some have more control over their abilities than others and so it seems logical that they'd have to spend time with each character developing their powers and control. 

That was exactly what I thought when I saw the watch. He does have a thing for blondes, even though his wife isn't (unless the carpet doesn't match the drapes).

Good episode, and I love Eccleston's Invisible Man character. It coincides so well with me watching the last few episodes of his Doctor Who season just this past weekend.

LOL

Oh. Bah. I deliberately don't watch those. Oh well, I guess it's spoilers in here, i can't complain, even if it is for an episode that hasn't aired yet.

Any ideas what that shiny metallic thing was on the back of Sylar's head when he confronts Mr. Bennett?

Pretty great episode. The invisibility was sweet. I like the invisible man character. I liked when he walked away on the street and Peter faded back in.

Claire's mom is a Pyro!

One thing I thought was a little inconsistent was Mohinder refusing to show the list to Mr. Bennett, but handing a PRINTOUT to Nathan Petrelli within a minute of the man walking in the door. A bit reckless of him.

Anyone think that after the kid stole all that money from the ATM's that it's going to setup a big problem for them in the future? Or that his dad might make a token gesture to return the money, but then just keep it? For a supposed criminal, D.L. seems to want to be an upstanding, good guy.

Last week, there was a 7 minute preview in Deal or No Deal that showed Ted and introduced the Wireless character from the graphic novel. Does anyone know if they did that this week too?

I want to say that the metallic thing is an inhibitor.  Which would be why the good doctor was beaten to death instead of all sliced up.

Well, Mohinder does know that Nathan is on the list, and has a vested interest in not misusing the list. He has no such illusions about Mr. Bennett, because he's not on the list and has shown himself to be a duplicitious fucker before.

Yea I'm pretty sure the first file is the one you are supposed to look at. I assume it's that person in the file that sent the e-mail since they are saying "get 2 know me". Her file says she can manipulate wireless transmissions and I remember getting a page one time where it said something like someone was trying to hack the web site. Must have been her.

Anyways, I like this added content outside of the show. When Micah was withdrawing money from the ATM, I said I wonder who's account he's taking it from and my wife said, "your's". Now THAT would be some show immersion.

I looked at it and though, "Is that a wingnut?"

Two cool points for me in this episode. One, Eccelston is just awesome. Perfect quirky role for him. Two, its always heartwarming to see Takai in a role that doesn't involve grovelling to James T. Kirk.

In the Hana Gitelman personal history section some of the numbers/letters are hilighted in blue unless I've missed some GGeh81zU , dosn't seem to work as a password to any of the other files, no clue what if anything it's for.

I'll go back to lurking now.

That character string you get from Hana's file is the password for C004, Sylar's.

Well, for some reason, I'm not using the right username to use the passwords. (The only one I've been trying is Bennet)  It also seems that I have to log in from the about us page now, where I didn't before.  Strange.

Thats because....

You're on the list!!!!!!!






Anyway, did they or did they not have something hooked up the thing in Sylar's head? 

Y'know, I was thinking about Heroes earlier today, and decided the show's pissing me off and I'm about done with it.  We'll see where it winds-up in June when the season ends, but right now It's "On Notice." 

A large part of it is it's feeling "Lost-ish"  Lots of buildup, very very little payoff.   The other part is right now we have TWENTY characters to follow, and six tangential characters and they don't look to be slowing down the additions.   If anything I expect those 6 others to windup Heroes as well and get their own damn storylines. WTF, it's like War & Peace for Television.  That's too damn many characters to be following, even with the overlap so many have.

I totally agree about all the build-up with no payoff but I don't get the having "too many characters to follow" beef. There's not THAT many characters to follow. Hell, I consider Ando and Hiro pretty much one character since everything they do is together. I feel the same with Nika/Jessica, DL, and Micah, which btw, I HATE and pretty much just ignore.

My beef is in terms of development and storyline.  Twenty folks is a lot to follow and have them go anywhere.  You can do things like this with traditional comics, because each hero has their own book or long backstory to develop the character.  Right now we're just getting unsatisfying glimpses of things because of the number of people being followed.

  Show a scene wtih Ando & Hiro, then flash to Micha and JD, now a snapshot of Claire, OOH HRG, where's he at.. ok now over to the Cop and hey we're done!  Nevermind we didn't touch on Mohinder, Sylar, the Radiation man, Peter, Nathan, the invisible dude, the new chick from the webcomic and Linderman this week, that's next week! Week after that, maybe we'll roll in the 2 new heroes we came up with in the previous two episodes!

It's getting frustrating.

It's true.  It wouldn't suck if they picked just one person/group to follow for an entire episode once in a while, story arc permitting.

My take on Heroes after having watched for the first time the 13 episodes that have aired over the past few days:


I'm enjoying the show, although a lot of characters and plot elements seem heavily borrowed from various comics, in particular X-men and Rising Stars.  I like the pacing of the show, and in particular the amount of time they spend building the characters.  Maybe I'm misunderstanding what some people here are saying when they want more payoff, but why would you have payoff in the middle of a story?  You can resolve some plot threads (and they have), but payoff implies the conclusion of a major story arc (the explosion, Sylar) which are obviously being built up for the end of the season.

In response to Stray's comments in particular about there not being enough superheroics in a show about superheroes, that's one of the things I'm really enjoying about this show.  I can watch Spider-man, Batman, X-men, or whatever for traditional superheroics.  I'd rather see a take on superheroes like what they're doing, where not everyone decides to fall into the hero or villain category, and not every power is some flashy, explosion causing ability they can use in a fight, than see standard superheroics, especially when Hollywood is doing its best to churn that kind of stuff out right now.  I think Isaac's ability to draw the future, is a lot more interesting to me than seeing superhero battles, even if it's not as flashy.

I just finished the first 13 episodes as well.

First of all, there's a decent amount of "why the fuck doesn't he/she just" moments, which is kind of pissing me off. There's also some things that's a bit of a stretch. For example, how can Mohinder miss the symbol in the code after studying it for so long? It's totally just made up of - . Also, Sylar being at the total brink of death beats up the doctor without his super powers? I hope that gets at least a little attention in the next episode. I also hope that they explain Hiros loss of power more closely beside just attributing it to the loss of the mind girl.

Overall I agree with the fact that there's to little shit actually happening, I watched all 13 episodes over a period of 2 days and probably would have lost intrest if I had to wait between each episode.

Also, highly unlikely if the show is gaining more popularity, but I hope they will only let it run for a set amount of seasons with a grand ending. I can't stomach the classic super hero comics because I can't get excited when I know that main characters can't freaking die.

Re: Hiro, I think it's mostly psychological.  He was powerless to save Charlie, so now he feels "powerless" all the time.

Re: Sylar, he's a complete wildcard because we don't know the extent of the powers he's absorbed from his various victims.  Nothing he does surprises me.  I agree, it's annoying and I hope they explain further at some point.

I think Hiro's power loss is either psychological, or it stems from him getting too far off track from his "mission".  We saw him teleport against his will when he was trying to save Charlie, which suggests that there's some sort of an "outside influence" for lack of a better way of putting it, that is involved with his powers.  Whether that's destiny or just the time stream's defenese against getting too fucked up remains to be seen.

Lets chalk that one up to Linderman too.  :-)

Maybe he's rich enough to buy the time stream.

Something's up with him. Wait and see! ;)

That he collects the paintings and has Hiro's sword, before even any of the main cast knows that they need those things, is pretty strange.

Maybe he's Hiro from reaaaaaaaally far into future  :-P

Like in that episode of Red Dwarf where they're visited by their corrupt future selves?  That'd be an entertaining twist.

For some stupid reason, my damn DVR didn't record Heroes as planned, so I missed the first 22 minutes of this week's episode.  A quick check on SciFi for Friday's schedule doesn't show a re-run of this week's episode.  Does anyone know if you can see the episodes on the NBC website or YouTube or something like that?  I don't want to download it from a torrent, I just want to legally watch the part of the episode that I missed. 

I basically came in on a convo between Hiro and his sister.  Is it worth me tracking down the first 20 mins or were they kind of meh?

You can catch the episodes here (http://www.nbc.com/Video/rewind/full_episodes/heroes.shtml).  I think you can catch all the episodes there.

What a freaking awesome episode, easily IMHO, the best yet.

Christopher Eccleston / Invisible Man is rapidly becoming my favorite 'hero' of the show, right along with the Hatian.  Tossing Peter off the building was pure genius, not to mention punching his lights out when Peter starting losing it.  Simplest solution is usually the best one. 

Good to see Hiro taking more steps towards his 'destiny', and confronting his father was probably a huge one.

I'm wondering why Linderman got the charges dropped against Niki....

Extremely happy that they picked up the pace of the show in this episode, as it was sorely needed.  I think, however, if there wasn't that 8 week or so lapse between season 1 and season 1.5, noone would really complain or think about it much. 

Check out the license plate of Hiro's dad's car...

(http://i19.tinypic.com/2e1bns1.jpg)

Though if you *really* wanted to be nerdy it should've been NCC-2000.

That was a great episode.  I'm glad we're finally seeing Peter get a handle of his powers, and Mr. Invisible is turning into a much more interesting character than I expected.  And he seems to have a past with HRG, which should be fun. 

I also hope we haven't seen the last of Hiro's dad. 

Sylar's original power is the ability to look at something and know how to fix it. Once he learned how to "fix" himself so that he absorbed other powers, he gained a great deal of control over his own body. I'm sure he was faking it, slipping into a coma while repairing any of the damage Mr. Bennett's doctors did on him.

It seems like they have established that powers can be/are hereditary, so it seems that perhaps Hiro's sister and father have powers which will be revealed later in the show.  Perhaps even Peter's mother has one as well, like being able to conjure up a glass of scotch at will? ;)

I thought it was a solid episode as well.

I think that's a bit of a stretch, but hopefully it will be reflected on what went wrong later on. Also, it turns out Sylar isn't such a bad guy after all, he had a free shot at killing Mr B but didn't.

Also, the ending, I hate it. It's turning into Lost. Everybody will turn out to be related to everybody in some mysterious fucked up way. It feels cheap.

I might sound pessimistic, but even though I think a lot of actions and other things doesn't make sense, it's very watchable.

Well, that at least follows the comic book hero trends, right?  Look at Marvel.  There's a huge multiverse and everyone has been in a book with everyone else at least once.  Maybe I'm wrong on that stat, but it feels that way to me.  Heck, I'm willing to forgive that shit simply because it makes a tiny bit of sense that a bunch of similar people, of whom there aren't too many, would somehow be related by virtue of their differentness.

Well...

You guys called it. I really didn't expect Nathan to be her father. Thought that would be so too lame.

Oh well, not a bad episode anyways though.

I was almost certain that her father was going to be the Invisible Man.  That would have been amusing.  Oh well.

For a second I had the wild idea that maybe Peter's power-recall thing would only work with members of his family (since we now know that Claire is his niece), and that that'd be an interesting limitation on it, but then I realized that he's not terribly likely to be related to Isaac, Matt, and Radioactive Man, all of whose powers he started to manifest before being clocked.  So scratch that too.

I think that peter is going to die at the end of the season. If he learns to control his power, he'll turn into too much of a pwnmachine. I don't know what they can think of for season two that can oppose Peter doing the regenration/timetravel/superpower/fire/telekinesis/flying stuff. Unless they bring in kryptonite :P

I don't think Peter will die, because future Hiro with the sword came back and told him he looked "different without the scar". So at least in the future that Hiro came from, Peter seemed to be an important, continued part of it.

Two new e-mails came on Tuesday morning.

I don't think they'll ever give him full control over his powers, and the fear of going nuclear will keep him from being too powerful.

I agree with Tale, also, in case no one noticed Peter is basically turning into the "good" version of Syler, he can absorb people powers, but he does it by caring about them instead of chopping them um. I think he core power is some kind of empathy. Even though they called Isack "the empath".

And again, I have been saying from the begining that the show could turn out to "Lostie" where not much really happens, and when it does, its kind of a let down. Its also hard for it to follow the day after Rome, where so much crap happens its had to keep track of it all.

I thought they referred to him as the "precog".

Oh yeah, thats right. My bad.

It's Peter that gets referred to as an empath by Claude.

Not really. Look at the time when Sylar first absorbed a power. He looked into the guy and "saw what was wrong with him." He then fixed himself to match that guy's powers. At least that's how I'm interpreting his powers.

They have the same power but psychologically they approach it differently.
Peter needs to learn what Sylar already knows you can only use one power at a time.  Peter got in trouble when he used regen and invis at the same time.

Yea I don't argue that. That it automatically means that he has great control over his body to the point where he can put himself in a self induced coma, and recover at will from it, that's what I feel is a bit of a stretch. And then of course the whole beating up the doctor afterwards without his super powers. Since they didn't explain it in any way we can only speculate though.

Actually I had a slightly different take on Sylars ability.

Last season Sylar explained to Mohinder's father that he knew how to fix watches, apparently from training from his father.  However there seemed to be an implicit assumption that he had killed his own father in order to gain that knowledge.  It seemed to me that when he learned of the existence of others with powers, he surmised that if he did the same thing to these kinds of people the same thing would happen.

In other words, Sylar's ability is to figure out powers based on people's brains, which in effect makes him the same as Peter, except Peter can do the same just by being in proximity to people.  Which of course implies that he now has all of the powers of Sylar since he was in close proximity to him at the end of last season (which seemed to me to be the explanation of why Peter freaked out after the confrontation).  Remember, we really don't know how many people Sylar has killed and how many powers he really has.

I always thought the problem people had with Lost was the fact that the overall mystery that the show is built around will never be able to have a satisfying payoff at the end of the series due to the writers never having actually planned out the story in advance.  From what I can tell from interviews with the writers of Heroes (a couple of them do a weekly Q&A article over at comicbookresources (http://comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=9570)), they've known the mythology/backstory of their setting and characters, and they've had the first season's story arc mostly planned since before the show started.  They also seem to know some details for what they'll get into next season (the Haitian's backstory among other things seems to be planned for season 2).  That's not to say some of their plans haven't changed.  There was apparently some sort of issue that forced the writers to abandon the plot point of Claire's friend Zach being gay, despite it being heavily implied in the show and on the character's myspace page.

I wondered about the Zach thing, since they pretty much came out and said he was gay and ok with it, but that never went anywhere.

Does it really need to go anywhere?  He's a 'minor' character in the grand scheme of things anyway.

/slightthreadderail

So what if he's gay.   It's like the two coaches in the Super Bowl: when people stop making a big deal about little, inconsequential things, the world will truly be a better place.

/further derail ;)


The superbowl thing was overblown perhaps, but it's not inconsequential. Just 40 years ago, black men could suffer all kinds of indignities, for no reason at all, while Vince Lombardi was being equated with the likes of Generals Marshall and Patton. Now, a black man can be a Lombardi. And if a black man can be a Lombardi, he can be a president, or a CEO, or whatever he wants. The world is a better place because that can happen now -- it's not a better place if we just take it for granted and forget it.

[EDIT]

Or in other words, NFL football coaches are a kind of a microcosm of American success and leadership.

The reason Zach being gay is no longer mentioned, is that his memory of "coming out" to Clare was wiped along with all his other memories of that time. And she has been polite enough not to say "oh, and I found out you were gay" when filling in the gaps. We know he's gay, she knows he's gay, he doesn't need to know we know, so it just functions as a clever plot device to prevent us wondering "those two are getting close, why don't they ... ?".

I don't see Zach as a minor character, just one without powers. He is to Claire what Simone is to Peter and Isaac. Plus, I really dug the chemistry between the two. I actually like that they just sort of implied/said he was gay then went nowwhere with it. It was so subtle, since I was expecting there to be more of a club to the head obviousness to the whole being gay thing, like we normally see on TV.

EDIT: I thought it was pretty clear that Zach being gay was known school wide, since he got called gay by the now-dead cheerleader. The memory wipe shouldn't have anything to do with it.

It may be known school wide, but it didn't seem to be known to Clare until the now-dead cheerleader made it plain. That was when she began to understand him better and their close (pre-wipe) friendship began.

It's not a big deal whether or not the character is gay or if the plot needed to go anywhere.  It is interesting though when the writers establish a character as being gay and then have to scrap the idea for some ambiguous reason later.  Not that it matters much in the long run as the actor playing Zach is supposed to be leaving the show to star in a Terminator TV series, "The Sarah Connor Chronicles".

Why does the gayness have to go anywhere?  Who really cares if he is gay?  Why does being gay warrant any sort of storyline?

I think it's pretty obvious the writers (and rightfully so) feel the same, i.e. - Zach being gay is introduced as just a character trait, something for viewers to identify or associate with, something to make him more memorable, whatever.  His sexual preference isn't (and absolutely shouldn't be) a focal point in Heroes; it's not a Lifetime Television for Women drama "ZOMG MY SON IS GAY" movie. 

I could care as much about Zach being gay as much as I care that my dog's vet is gay; which is to say not much.

Again:  Race and sexual preference are inconsequential things, and the truly amazing thing would be for people not to feel the need to talk about.  It's a utopian want, I'll admit, because certain people will never be able to get past the race / sexual thing.

Sweet Fuckin Jesus man, did you even read the part where I said that it DOESN'T matter whether the plot went anywhere or not?  It's not about making the character's gayness the focal point of the show.  His gayness didn't really become a focal point to anybody until the writers of the show said something along the lines of "hey, we made him gay at first but now due to behind the scenes reasons he's not any more".

I don't care about the character's sexuality one way or the other, but at some point, someone behind the scenes did enough to have it changed mid-season, and NBC made sure to have their publicists let people know that the character is not gay.  Fuck, you're saying the same shit over and over again, and not even reading what I'm actually writing.  The only interest I really had in the character being gay is the fact that I was relieved that they wouldn't go the obvious route and pair him up with Claire eventually.  It was important enough to someone else though to not just have it quietly dropped, but to have people go on record saying that the character isn't gay.  That's the part I find odd.

Psst... use more Ks.

I'll be honest... I have no idea what that means.

Where is a link to the publicists saying the char isnt gay?  Did you actually read it, or is this some sort of pseudourban legend?

Besides, you're just NOW bringing this up?

Here's a link (http://www.afterelton.com/TV/2006/12/heroes.html) for you.

The really shitty part is that he'll be leaving the show, and the even shittier part is that someone thought a "Sarah Conner Chronicles" was worth doing after the shitty shit shit shit Terminator 3 movie.

Count yourself lucky.

The latest episode was probably my least favorite of the series. It was the first time I felt some bits were added to waste time, specifically the Hope/Ando thing. There were some good bits in it, like the Sulu reference, and the Parkman/Nikki fight, and Nathan's dilemna. But it felt a bit filler-y. Next week looks good.

Yeah, I'd agree with that (filler-y)...Very much a 'prep' episode for things to come.  The Hope/Ando thing is going to lead somewhere, I imagine; where I have no idea.  Is Parkman turning into a 'bad guy'?  Very much seems so since he pocketed the diamonds, and everytime he turns around he's getting slammed by the police.  I'm also wondering whose baby his wife is carrying.  Is it Parkmans, or the detective she was banging.  If it's not Parkmans, that could be one more thing to push him towards being a bad guy.

New e-mail from Primatech:


I've assumed the baby's in Matt's. I doubt his wife is taking any chance on lying to him since he can just read her mind when she thinks about it.

Any idea how much time has passed since the last time his wife cheated on him?

She was probably still doing it when he found out in the locker room. The other guy said he was banging his wife like it was in the present tense.

Matt's a character they don't go into enough. Didn't mind that episode too much for that.

Yeah, but any point of reference as to how long ago that was in comparison to when she said she was pregnant?


Agreed.  I think he's a temptous slope right now as to whether he's going to continue the good fight (despite being slammed by his coworkers) or say 'Fuck you', and start using his power for entirely personal gain.  He's an interesting character that I wish they would have developed more.

Well, he found out she was cheating in the 8th episode and learned she was pregnant in the 13th. It doesn't seem like there's two much of a passing of time that we don't see between episodes except maybe when they did the flashback episode. My best guess would be 2-3 weeks, not really sure.

OK.  Based on that...

Prediction:  Parkman finds out the baby isn't his.  Gets pissed.  "We're Not Gonna Take It" by Twisted Sister starts playing in the background (not really).  Keeps the diamonds.  Gives in to the dark side.  Becomes a bad guy.

I sort of agree, it really seems like they're setting it up with 'how much can this guy take' and still do the right thing.

The first episode of Heroes was 1 month from the time of the bomb. The bomb is 2 weeks away. I think the time has been stretched a bit but that should be about right.

See, now that was a great episode. When I made earlier gripes about shit not happening, I meant the lack of that.

[EDIT]

I have to say though...

Sylar sucks. Not a cool villain imo. Can someone refresh my memory on why he's such a mean asshole? Wasn't he a fairly normal/nice guy before? Why does he drool and grimace when he kills people? You'd think if all he was concerned about was power, then he'd be more gentleman like / nonchalant when he takes people out.

It's just totally wrong for a longterm villain, especially of the "comic book" variety.

In my opinion, the first rule for these type of characters is: Make them sympathetic somehow. Even to the point where you want to cheer for them. There are as many fans of the Joker, Lex Luthor, or Magneto as there are Batman, Superman, and Professor X.

Sylar has none of that. He's just a shithead. No reason to sympathize with him, and no charisma whatsoever.

Well, I think the reason we're supposed to sort of sympathize with him is that Mohinder's dad pretty much told him to FOAD because he couldn't demonstrate a power.  The guy had spent his whole life wanting to be important or unique or special.  So he figured out how to be that. 

I don't think he's going to be very long term.  I think we have yet to see the true bad guy (unless it's Claire's dad).  Did you see how he was having issues dealing with his new super hearing?  My guess is that as he absorbs more powers, he'll have a harder time controlling them and then croak. 

I hope he's not longterm, but I'm afraid he will be. Peter is becoming WAY too freaking powerful to not have a nemesis to counteract him. Soon enough, both of them will virtually be able to do anything, and need to have a face off like Neo vs Agent Smith.

And it seems unlikely such a faceoff will happen anytime soon. Would be pretty anticlimatic if you carried on the show after something like that.


Also, if that's why I'm supposed to be sympathetic to him, then they haven't played that angle enough for him imo.

I just don't want to them to drag out the "Mohinder and Sylar travel to meet a new superhuman and Sylar kills him/her" thing.  Mohinder should be smart enough to catch on sooner rather than later.

Mr. Bennet seems to be more of the sympathetic villain and possibly the Haitian too depending on what his goals and motivations actually are.  After this episode Isaac might fit into that category too.

I gotta agree with Stray here. 

Sylar sucks.  He's boring.  Further, the best villains are extremely likeable in some way.  Not so much that you're sympathetic to why they are a bad guy, but they generally have something that either you identify with, or they have SOME sort of redeeming quality.

Is Sylar's previous 'every man' persona supposed to be what we as an audience identify with?  The 'we all want to be special and a rock star but we're stuck in our boring mundane lives doing boring mundane things' thing?  He's creepy, but not in a cool creepy kinda way.

I understand that he gets his power from the brains of the person he kills, but HOW does he get them?  Does he pull a Hannibal and eat them, or what?


Are you sure about that?  I remember it differently:  Suresh was scared of him, IIRC, due to the way Sylar began to act (psychotic), and asked/told him to leave.  Could be wrong thou.


To Velorath:  Yeah, the whole 'Thelma and Louise' thing that Sylar and Mohinder have going will bore out rather quickly. 

Peter is a villian worth liking though.

My bet is he gets batty next episode then his brother or someone knocks some sense into him.

You could be right.  It has been a while.  I really think he's not that likeable of a bad guy too, but I was trying to find something redeemable about the guy.  Heck, it could just be his general level of crazy.

Dr. Suresh was testing Sylar, and they couldn't discover his power or anything special about him, so Dr. Suresh basically said, "Oh well, we're done.  I've got lots of work to do finding the real special people." and send Sylar on his way.  Sylar then stole the name and number of someone else Dr. Suresh had on the first list, and contacted him.  That guy showed up, showed he could move a teacup, and then asked Sylar if he could fix it and make the power go away.  Seeing someone with a tangible power who wanted to give it up made Sylar snap, so he cracked his skull open and did his thing.  Then he went back and showed Suresh his 'discovered' power.  Somewhere between there and the beginning of the series' events, Sylar further degraded and started debraining people left and right. 

Sylar is basically the drive to be special taken to a crazy extreme.  Though he screamed psychotic from the get go, let alone after he started gnoshing on brains. 

I don't think Sylar is meant to be a longterm villain. He's a boogeyman that will bind some of the Heroes together, but he's not going to be the main bad guy. The guy's behind Bennett, that's who you have to look at, guys like Linderman. Those are the real bad guys and Sylar is just a fly in their ointment. He'll be like the Invisible Man, someone they'll try to remove.

I agree though, that was one of the best episodes they've done, especially when Peter takes off. I'm really digging his character a lot more now that he's getting some balls.

Having now finished the episode...wow.  That was great. 

It seems Peter doesn't even have to know he's been exposed to the power to be able to call on it later, so I wonder what other powers Sylar might have had in Odessa that he may be able to show off later. 

That might also explain the strange prophetic dreams thing Peter's been able to do since the get go.  My guess is that's something that may have come from his Dad. 

A couple comments on the latest episode: At first I thought it was silly that Silar would kill Superhearing Lady right away like that, considering the fact they if he keeps that up as a pattern, Mohinder will catch on quickly enough.

Then I looked at Sylar, at the way he intentionally prompted Mohinder to talk about his father's murder,  at some of the other things he's done - it fits. I think he'd see it as a game to see how long he can string along Mohinder as his friend, and how big of a fool he can make out of him. Ultimately, the longer he gets away with it, the bigger the fool Mohinder looks, and the more glee Sylar will get out Mohinder's anguish.

So, did we see another way of Hiro's power to manifest? Up to now, it's seemed that Hiro would could slow time's effect on himself. Based on the last episode though, he would have had to slow and then reverse time in just a localized area around Hope. Otherwise, when the normal time flow resumed, she would have just fired the gun again before she was tackled. So obviously the time reversal only affected her, allowing the guy time to run over and tackle her.

Either that, or they just fucked up.

I understood it that he reversed time on the bullet, but the energy backfired into the gun.

It was late for me though.

I really enjoyed last nights episode. "shit happened" as I have been complaining of not happening. And for once, it felt like a "full" episode. I hope they show is finally starting to get some major legs, and not have that be a one time built up to episode. I have always liked Peter, and like some one else said, its nice to see him getting some balls. I do think Simones death is going to make him go a bit crazy, but then again, maybe not.

I used to really like Hiro and Ando, but their story line REALLY seems to be dragging out, like the same kind of shit in every episode. We need development in that story, not that same rehashed bit every time. Hopefully with Ando leaving, thats signaling the end of that repeating plot. Move forward please.

As to Mohinder and Sylar. Mohinder is supposed to be really smart, but so far he hasnt made very many (any?) smart moves. I like the theory behind the "boogyman" that is Sylar, but its really starting to get a bit old.

I really like Bennet. He isnt good or bad, he just is, and those guys make some of the best characters. I like that he is showing his human side a bit more, as I want the Clair and her Dad plot line to move forward as well.

All in all, I think that was my favorite episode of the entire show.

I think Ando will stalk Hiro or something and end up saving Hiro in one way or another, and then they will join together again. I'm pretty certain this isn't the last we've seen of Ando at least, perhaps he even has some hidden power.

Peter might go crazy, or he will feel just as guilty as the painter dude. Or he will kill the painter and start another story arc with peters guilt.

I think the Mohinder arc will take a turn pretty soon. Would be cool if he somehow figure out Sylars identity and turn it into some kind of mind game where Mohinder tries to hide the fact that he knows out of fear for his life, it could be pretty cool. Mohinder doesn't have the mind reading power yet.

Next episode looks like it will have even more happen than this one did, as we're supposed to get more background on Mr. Bennet and Primatech, flashbacks of him meeting the Haitian for the first time and of his run-in with Claude.  This is also going to be the last new episode I think, until the final five are shown at the end of the season.

Here's a thought about the Hiro / Ando thing....

Badass Hiro With Swords on the train with Peter (Nathan? I always get their names mixed up) was much more serious.  We've seen flashes of Hiro becoming Badass Hiro With Swords, but he never really takes that last step.

Suppose Ando bites it very soon?

My thoughts exactly.  Ando follows Hiro to random encounter #11 and Hiro can't save him in time.  Hiro becomes much more serious.  I think the whole show is going to become more serious (what w/ Peter not being such a flake, and Claire owning up to her dad).  Plus, people dying always makes for better TV.

He looks at them and sees how they work.  Once he sees how they work, he's able to replicate the effect.  Like reverse-engineering a watch.  It's almost the exact same thing that Peter does, except that Peter does it empathically and automatically rather than by visual inspection (but he also has less intellectual understanding of it and hence less control).


In the very first episode, Hiro made his clock run backwards for a second while everything else kept going forward.  The gun trick seems to fit with that.


Was I the only one who noticed the Stan Lee cameo, or was I just the only one that was thoroughly delighted by it?

I noticed the Lee cameo when his name came up in the opening credit.

First episode I've liked since the winter break.

I noticed the Lee cameo and laughed. Great addition.

I still can't figure out if Sylar needs to see their brain to absorb the power, eat their brains or he just does it because he can. I do think Ando will be back, but I'm not sure about him biting it. After all, Hiro's already had one failure with the waitress. But Ando's death would surely get him super serious.

Please tell me we aren't going to have another goddamn hiatus.

Have we ever heard anyone mention the brains of Sylar's victims being found missing?  I know the tops of their heads are always removed, but it's not clear whether he actually pulls the brain out.

I'm pretty sure we saw enough of future Isaac's and frozen guy's heads to see they were debrained.  Plus, didn't the FBI lady say Sylar's victims were missing their brains?  I'd have to go back and rewatch them to be sure.

It would have been far cooler had I not already seen his name in the credits, but yes, I did recognize him immediately.

Yeah, you really cannot miss his voice.  Also, I recognize him from cameos in all of the Marvel flicks and Mallrats.

That was a pretty damn good episode, and a great follow-up to last week's.  And some very nifty surprises as well.  Now we know why HRG recognized the Deavoux (sp?) building, and Hiro's dad now seems to have alot more importance.  Granted, now there are new questions raised, but still...very nice. 

The show's still in progress in my backwards-ass timezone, so I have no comment on the episode yet, except to reiterate that "The Haitian" is possibly the best superhero/villain name EVER.

Well damn.  If you'd told me an hour ago that by the end of this episode I'd find HRG a likable and sympathetic character, I wouldn't have believed you.  But that last scene was downright touching.

Was this the first episode they've had where they've stuck to a single plotline the whole way through?  I liked it.  More please?

This was probably my favorite espisode of the series so far.

Awesome episode.  :-)

Eric Roberts. That's a cool addition. Guy used to be something else back in the day (kinda trashed his career on B flicks). Hope his character shows up more.

Eric Roberts is who you get when you can't afford James Woods.  Just sayin'.

Good show though.  I've been waiting for Bennet's character-redeeming storyline for a while now.

Hmm? They were nothing alike (I love James Woods too though, don't get me wrong).


For good films, I would suggest Runaway Train, Star 80, and the Pope of Greenwich Village (for Rourke as well....who went off the deep end too for a bit).

[EDIT]

Wait, I see what you're saying. The older Eric Roberts basically is a poor man's James Woods.

Yes.


Yes. But you figure it had to happen eventually. At some point, you have to start addressing specific plot points.

It's funny that Eric Roberts showed up. The buddy I carpool to work with and I were talking about how much we hated his turn as the Master in that Paul McGann Doctor Who Fox movie, and how much we just don't like him. BAM. He shows up. Fucking Eric Roberts.

I honestly didn't see a lot of the developments with Mr. Bennett coming. That's a great way to make him a sympathetic character, and having the Haitan mindwipe him after shooting him was a good idea. Just mindwiping him would lead Eric FUCKING Roberts to doubt Bennett, but with Bennett wounded in the whole thing, he might not have as much doubt. Bennett's still fucked though.

More Christopher Eccleston please.

Telling you guys. Star 80. :-D The guy actually had a good thing going there in the early 80's.

It's the story about Dorothy Stratten by the way.

Fantastic freaking episode. 

I don't know why it suprised me, but Hiro's dad being involved in the whole thing shocked me a bit.  (An aside, the little kid they got to play little Hiro looked EXACTLY like him, it was freaking scary (bad racist joke:  I guess they do all look the same)).  The scene with Claire spitting up the bullet was awesome, and her spitting out the blood like a boxer really surprised me.  She's turned into a tough little hottie.

If Nuclear Caveman Guy was going all radioactive when he was getting pissed (and even more so after Eric Roberts shot him), wouldn't everyone there pretty much be dead/dying from radiation poisoning?  I realize it's a TV show about people with superhuman powers, but come on...

About Eric Roberts:  I gotta say, he fit the mold for I had in mind for HRG's boss.  And the scene with Invisible Guy was pure genius (popping up during the first meeting).

 
Agreed.  I wish they'd flesh him out a bit more, but there's more than enough people to worry about at this point. 

I'm quite glad the Internet Chick wasn't around.

The previews:  Simone showing back up alive?  Wonder if that was a dream (she's standing up with bloody bulletholes), or if she comes back?  I kinda doubted she would be gone, considering she is one of the highlighted cast on nbc.com's heroes page.  If she shows up with a power.....Just....Bleh.  Somehow, I'm sure we're going to see HRG back in the fold in a pretty big way (previews showing him be damned).  They can't get rid of him that quick.

Is next week the season finale?  If so...BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I think there are 5 more episodes this season.

The preview described the next episode as the beginning of the final chapters of the season, or some such.  I've heard there might be another brief hiatus after next week's episode before they start down the final stretch, but I sure as hell hope that's not the case.  I'm hoping things keep this pace right up to the season finale, where we can see just what has changed about the future, and how well they've managed to avert disaster.  I'm rather certain things will have changed, it's just a question as to how much. 

That brief glimpse of Linderman at the end looked like the guy who played The Architect in the Matrix sequels.

Looked like Donald Sutherland to me.

I actually thought it was James Coburn, until I remembered he was dead.  Don't know why though.  When I saw the glimpse of him in the previews, the first thing that came to mind was the character he played in Payback.

I really hope they break a mobster typecasting and go for someone out in left field. 

The rumor I read earlier (I think in a thread on the semiofficial boards) was that Linderman would be played by Malcolm McDowell.  Whether that's true or not, who knows.

Bleh.

He's a fine actor, to be sure.  But my own personal choice would have been for someone else, IF that's the case.   

I threatened this show with picking up the pace and doing stuff, and WOW, it listened. This show is really coming in to its own. I did see the sympathic Bennet starting to come through, and I actually was a bit touched at the end of the episode. I really hope they keep up this quality of show. Also, I like where they are going with the whole shadow agency thing.

2 Thumbs up for last night.

Same here, man. Turned my cold heart all warm and fuzzy. I'll try not to doubt again.

They've said they are going to air the final five episodes in May.

....May? 

Well fuck.  I hope that changes. 

TV seasons do traditionally end right before summer, and they gotta have a break somewhere if they don't have enough episodes socked away to do one a week from now till then.

I just watched this week's episode over again (yay nbc.com) and spotted something I hadn't before -- the young Haitian was wearing a silver pendant in the shape of Jessica's tattoo (the one that appears on her shoulder whenever she's being Jessica instead of Nikki).  I wonder if that means they're directly linked in some way (like, Nikki/Jessica is the result of some weird Haitian mindmeld voodoo), or if the symbol is going to turn out to be something having to do with Linderman.

I'm already figuring that Linderman is the "higher authority" that the Haitian answers to, just because that seems to be the safe money for any dangling plot threads at this point.

Yeah, I noticed the pendant on the Haitian.  The only thing I could think of is that maybe Nikki had been abducted by Primatech at some point in the past and given the tattoo while she was there (possibly as a means for them to identify when Jessica is in control.

I'd assumed (for no good reason, really) that the Haitian's pendant was something he'd had on him before being picked up by Primatech.  Does that symbol show up on any other Primatech paraphernalia?

Apparently it shows up in a shitload of places (http://heroeswiki.com/index.php?title=The_Symbol).  Some of them I have to imagine are just the writers having fun slipping it in there and seeing if the viewers notice.

I'd like to see them give some more of the characters the kind of complexity they've given Bennet -- and they certainly had fun toying with us during the earlier episodes where I kept thinking "he's a total bastard" no, wait, "he really cares about his family", no, wait, "he's a total bastard" ^^

- Q

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Lets test this....

Ironwood - do you love your daughter?

I actually laughed out loud at this. Good on you.

Please don't let any Matrix-funk rub off on Heroes. That would be a damn shame. Matrix-funk is a stink you can't wash off with ammonia and bleach.

Matrix funk?

It smells like sweaty leather and Jolt cola. It comes from having been involved in the travesty that was the last 2 Matrix movies.

I thought the symbol was a pretty apparent recurring theme. While I hadn't noticed all of the ones displayed on that wiki, I had noticed a lot of them. I'm guessing that it has something to do with DNA. If you would put another S in the symbol, but mirrored, it could be seen as a DNA helix.

I was kind of wondering where the hell she went...she was there at teh graveyard.  She was (I thought) there last week at Bennett's house.  Then this episode, nowhere. 

Errr.. wasn't she at the end of the ep working at primatech?  Or is that another new female?

That's another new chick.  From what I gather, we might see her in action in the next episode. 

I was thinking the same thing.  I THOUGHT I saw her with Parkman and Radioactive Caveman in the previews for last weeks previews.  Oh well, she was/is weaksauce.

Also, saw a commercial for Heroes last night while watching Leno.  They showed a bit more of Linderman's face, but I didn't get a good enough look at it.  It DIDN'T look like McDowell though, to me anyway.  Edit:  But he IS listed as having a recurring role here (http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/life/20070130/d_lline30.art.htm). 

So, today's episode his the net last night, and I had to watch.

It's even better than last weeks show.  Do not miss.  I'd have to say it's dethroned BSG as the best sci-fi on television.

So here are my predictions for tonight that are based on what I saw on the episode information screen.  Not even ComCrap can keep itself from putting semi-spoilers on its info screens, I guess.

At any rate....here goes...

My predictions are:  Hiro goes after the sword and Ando dies, Mohinder figures out that Sylar is Sylar and not melty dude from VA Beach.

Yeah, they're pretty darn softball predictions, but hey, you'll have that.

Damn cliffhangers.


This show has really blown up more than I thought though. Advertising magnet. Seems like I saw two commercials I've never seen before. Then there's the Spidey promo. And then that bit of Heavenly Sword footage.

 

April?!?!?! 

Anyway, in no particular order:
 - Good turn of events.  The Hatian continues his double agent role in good fashion.
 - The shapeshifter chick is teh hawtness.  And can't say I didn't see her acting like HRG's wife from 10 miles away.
 - Didn't particularly care for Ando showing up out of the blue.  Going to go out on a limb and say this about him:  He's got some sort of power.  He works for his (Hiro's) father, but not in the capacity that we THINK he does.  He's supposed to watch over Hiro (and has watched over him even as a young child).  He's been playing stupid (so to speak), and within a couple episodes it's going to come out who he really is.
 - HRG has taken a nice turn, although I liked his mysterious bad guy role better.
 - Am I the only one getting really freakin' bored of Sylar?  Seriously.  Just kill him off.  He totally sucks as a villian now. 
 - Clair has HUGE feet.
 - Disappointed that McDowell is Linderman.  Ah well.
 - Really, really hoping that Mohinder doesn't get killed off.  [Edit]  I REALLY liked the way they played him out tonight.  He's got a great mean streak to him that came out of the blue, that I didn't see coming at all.   
 - Anyone notice that Badass Hiro With Sword was in the previews for the next episodes?   :rock_hard:
 
 

I don't think they will kill of mohinder in a looooooooooong while. He's needed for the scientific plot twists. Ando might be someone else than we think he is, but the fact that he doesn't have any super powers makes him somewhat unique. I think they will tie together the petrelli brothers mom with linderman sometime in the future, perhaps even with mr bennets organization.

So now we know where Peter's scar comes from, since they made such a point of showing the shearing of the emo-bangs.

Also, so far the future has been playing out exactly as Hiro and Isaac have seen it would.  I'm guessing it won't be until the final episode that they finally manage to do something to cause a divergence.  Will it be before or after Isaac is debrained?  His character is pretty dull now so it wouldn't surprise me if it's after.  It would add more drama to trying to stop Peter the exploding boy, too.

Maybe the bomb does go off?

Fuckity fuck fuck Rage sweeps week cockgobbling thundercunt douchetwats

April Fucking 23rd. Bitchass pubesnatchers. As in you literally steal into the bedrooms of pre-pubescent boys and steal their pubes each night. Fuck your sweeps weeks right in its tiny, outdated asshole.





/breathe

Great fucking episode. It's nice that characters are still surprising me after this long, specifically Mohinder not being as stupid as we thought last week, Claire's mom being smarter than even Bennett thought, and Peter/Nathan's mom having something to do with the whole thing. The whole Linderman reveal wasn't nearly as shocking or surprising as I'd hoped, but it was cool seeing Jessica show up to cap the FBI agents, and DL not being a dumbass about what's going on with Nikki.

Ando is definitely working for Hiro's dad. I'm not going to be surprised if the Haitan is working with a section of the Company that's against Eric Roberts' section, as if perhaps there are conspiracies within conspiracies.

We still don't know for sure that it's Peter that blows up. Roberts or Linderman may plant Ted the Sparky Boy in the middle of New York to manuever Nathan nearer the White House.

Well, didn't he actually say something a few episodes back about his actions being directed from someone "higher up" in the company? I'm assuming that's the Petrelli mom (or some associate of her dead husband?).

What's interesting about this show is that they seem to put a lot of information out there through the show, the comics, and the websites, for people who really want to get some answers.  For instance, people have noticed that Mr. Bennet and Sylar's father were both born in 1962, and that Primatech was also established that year.  Some fans also did their research and found out that in 1962 (in real life):


The writers have also seemed to indicate that Uluru, also known as Ayers Rock, may have some siginifigance and have encouraged fans looking for answers or wanting to put together theories, to do some research on it.  There's a lot of interesting stuff out there for people really looking to get into the backstory, but it's not necessary to enjoy the show.  All in all, I'm impressed at how much work goes into to making this series.

My one Heroes spoiler: The guy who plays Nathan Petrelli was in Top Gun. I didn't use IMDB to cheat either. I just finished watching Top Gun.

Adrian Pasdar. Been around awhile, yeah. Best role was in Carlito's Way. He died pretty quickly though.

He's also married to the lead singer of the Dixie Chicks.

He also starred in the very short-lived Fox show Profit, which kicked ass but was way too weird for America to swallow. It was about a completely amoral stock broker, I mean amoral to the point where he'd kill people just to get ahead in his job. But at night, he'd go back to his empty apartment and sleep naked in a cardboard box. Kind of an American Psycho meets Gilbert Grape or some shit. It was quite good, so naturally Fox killed it after 3 episodes.

As a reminder for those who don't know, Heroes returns tonight with the first of its last five episodes.

By FAR, the best episode yet.

Completely fucking AWESOME.

Will refrain from discussing until all timezones have seen it.  Really, really don't want to spoil it for anyone.

Pretty decent episode tonight.  It does make me wonder if next week (based on the preview) is just going to be a flash-forward, and we have to wait till week after next to see what happens with some of the story lines that were developed this week.

Overall, I liked it.  Sure seems like they're moving the plot along a bit.

We shall henceforth refer to these as "The Final Five".   :evil:

I agree completely. A few moments where I was going "ARGGG" though, but overall really good.


I expect we will have to wait, and next week will be like the "6 months-ago" episode in that we won't see anything from 'present day.'

Such a great episode!  So many things to comment about, but I'll wait for now as well...

My personal ARGGG moment came when Linderman went into Ozymandias mode re: the destruction of NYC will saaaaave the worrrrrrlddddd.

(Although I'm holding out hope that he just said what he said to Nathan as some sort of misdirection, and not as a blatant rip-off of an already-told story).

I was surprised that Petrelli vs Sylar wasn't more visually impressive. I suppose this is television, so they're on a budget.
Still, you make your viewers wait two months to see this fight, and it ends with a shard of glass stuck into Peter's head?
Throw us a bone, let the two powerhouses tear up Mohinder's apartment a little more before ending it.

Great Ando line: "I don't like the future."

The show closed with another good cliffhanger. I should have expected them to have Hiro run into himself eventually.

I loved the "Yooou....." sneer by future Hiro...And I can guarantee you he wasn't talking about Hiro....

Ando is about to bite it.  Not sure how Ando figures to be a bad guy, but something is about to happen (sliced and diced by future badass Hiro with swords).

Edit:  Anyway.

Great freakin' episode.  No way was Peter dead.  Had the whole Claire-dead-grey-eyes thing going on.  Was just a matter of time.  And yes, the Syler v Peter battle could have and should have been better.  I was really hoping that Isaac didn't get brainpanned, but meh...guess that was inevitable.  From the previews of him being dead, then seeing Lindermans 'heal' power, I figured Nathan was going to make some sort of deal with Linderman to heal him and bring him back to life (a la the dead flower).  Speaking of Linderman, wtf is wrong with his nose?  It always looks...brown.  Noticed it in the first ep he was in.

Question:  Where is Nathan's wife?

Hanging out with Jack Bauer, last I saw.  :-P

You know, I was trying to figure out why that sounded so familiar.  Damn.  Oh well.  At least it wasn't something involving a giant laser.


It looked to me like he was looking at Hiro, but it was hard to tell from the camera angle.  I can see future-Hiro having some disdain for past-Hiro, what with his willy-nilly ripping through time and space and causing rifts and whatnot.  But yeah, Ando is a better bet.

It still hasn't been explained how Ando was able to suddenly show up in Linderman's vault in a security uniform and save the day.  Maybe he made some sort of good-intentioned but disastrous deal so that he could be in the right place at the right time?

That was good shit.

Really good, I agree.

Does anyone know when this season ends? I'd be thrilled if it went for another 5 episodes or so.

there are four more episodes to the season after last nights.

Great. I just hope they don't pull this month-long-wait crap again next year. I'd like to see about 28 episodes per season.

I'd also like each season to end like an actual comic book run. All the shit they delayed to tell me how trashy nikki was wasted too much time it would seem.

Stupid bitch.

Best I can figure (or my own personal theory):

Hiro's dad is involved with Linderman.  We know this, or at least it's not a stretch to assume it so.

I'm thinking Ando was 'assigned' to Hiro to keep him out of troulble and not fuck up the world up with his time space continium flux capacitor powers.  Further, Ando has been influencing (it's obvious at times, when you think about certain instances) and steering Hiro along the way.  The vault thing was just a little TOO obvious, but I'd thought Ando had clandestine motives prior to that, I just didn't say anything because I thought I was just being paranoid and reading too much into the buddy buddy relationship.  It may not be clandestine; he's just trying to keep Hiro out of trouble.

Anyway, Ando isn't necessarily working for Linderman per se, in as much as he answers to Hiro's dad, who I personally think is the boss of the whole shebang. 

And if future-badass-with-swords Hiro is about to cut someone, it's not going to be his past self. 

Great episode overall.  The Peter/Sylar fight was a bit disappointing though.  It had promise, but the ending was pretty anticlimactic.  I guess he might have been trying to duck or something, but why the hell was Peter facing away from Sylar?  Anyway....looking forward to next week's. 


Also, the comic they posted for last night's episode sheds some light on Future Hiro's backstory a bit, and spells out pretty clearly how things have changed so far in the timeline.  I found it to be one of the more interesting comics.  In fact, I'd have much preferred several issues of Future Hiro as opposed to six issues of Linderman in Vietnam. 

Maybe he knew he was about to get jacked, so he turned around to move away?

It's also interesting to note that 1) No scar on Peter yet so whatever happens that gets him that scar hasn't happened yet and 2) Peter can't grow back his hair like Claire can.  Heh.

Fucking awesome episode. Totally worth the wait. I even liked the Sylar/Peter fight, though I'd like to figure out how Sylar got taken out. That didn't seem like something Peter could do what with glass shards stuck in his fookin' head.

One thing I've heard is that the producers have said that next season might not be focused on the same set of heroes, so don't necessarily get comfortable with this cast. Perhaps it'll be a flashback season, with the whole season set in Linderman's time, when Sulu and Grandma Petrelli and Eric "The Master" Roberts all setting shit up.

I had a problem with Peter-Sylar until they did the hearing thing with Mohinder ko-ing Sylar.   Invisibility < Ability to hear heartbeat/ footsteps like I'm talking in your ear.   Peter got caught with his pants down, relying too much on invisibility (as most sighted people rely 90% on their sight) because he didn't know it wasn't an "I Win" card.

My biggest ARRGH was the whole "omg Peter's Dead, look at that glass shard" thing.  Nobody thought to pull it out before Claire?  Really? Or did that not seem to be a big stretch purely for dramatic purposes to anyone else?   The Linderman = crazy 'destroy the world to save it' is very cliche, and yes that's also a nuisance.  Also, if you discover you're radioactive wouldn't you educate yourself a bit more about radiation?  Not knowing what an EMP is? Small Argh.

I agree with Snake about FH's "Youuu..."  Ando's in for some trouble.

My questions right now are:

-Where's Hiro's dad in the hierarchy? Still involved with Linderman, or was he one of the 'splitters' Linderman mentioned.
-Who's gonna die, Nikki, Micha or Shifter. One of them's in for a bad day, and I'm thinking it's shifter.
-Issac says you can't escape the future.  He's drawn Peter exploding, and NY being nuked.  Doesn't that mean that everything's futile anyway?  How are they going to massage that bit of time-travel paradox?

New York is hosed, but that doesn't mean Peter dies.

So far there's been no divergence at all from all the various predictions of the future.   Given that the producers have said that each season will be its own story arc not necessarily with the same characters, I'm at the point where it wouldn't surprise me if it turns out New York really does get destroyed.  It all depends on what future Hiro really meant with the 'Save the cheerleader, save the world' thing.

Speaking of the future, what was it Sylar painted after he ate Isaac's brain?  I'm also curious about what the clue is Isaac left behind that'll lead to Sylar's death.

Clearly Peter doesnt die when NY goes bang. It showed him in the preview of next episode, with his scar that future Hiro refered to. So he obviously lives in the future. I think we are going to see a lot more powers being used next episode.

The thing im worried about is them adding powers to every single character.

22 episodes is more or less standard for a network TV series I think (unless it's a new series with only a half season ordered).  They decided to give Heroes an extra episode.  Most shows have month or so long gaps like that (usually after the sweeps peroids).

I thought that Mohinder pushed a cabinet or something like that into him, slamming him into a wall knocking him out?

It needs the Star Trek treatment then. They had pretty long series' lengths, I think. Some aired as two-parters at that.

Scratch that. Give it the soap opera treatment. All year long!

Slit his throat on the way out?

Oh right, need more drama, let him live.

Sweet, either I misremember from earlier or this is a sea change in your opinion of the show.  I say, "sweet," because I, too, hope for a much longer season of this one.

Yeah, they took out the prolonged Peter Emo Closeup moments, then upped the pace a bit. Also, my main complaint was not enough action or use of powers. They've responded to that too.

Speculation time.

I wonder if Peter is going to go bang at all. Or boom, whatever.

Nuclear Ted is on his way to NYC. Maybe he'll go boom.

And Peter has only seen himself go boom in dreams. He might be using Isaac's power there, but if he's dreaming, the future vision could be altered by his subconscious.

Unless... if Peter hasn't been exposed to Nuclear Ted yet, maybe Peter can still go boom, after meeting Ted, after Ted arrives in NYC.

They can flipflop anything, as we just saw when Syler started painting.

Oh! It could be Sylar! He could eat Ted's brain, then go boom!

Either that or that handy pistola that was laying around.

Yah.  That kinda sucked. 

But you gotta have an ubah villain.

I still hate Syler though. Still my one beef about the show. He's no uber villain. He sucks, his rage has no point to it, and he has ugly, bushy eyebrows.  :-P

The guy needs to go away asap. We need some fucking Dr. Doom in the house.


As for the others, maybe Eric Roberts (yeah, yeah, ridicule me) will turn out to be the uber villain. Doesn't look like it'll be Linderman (he almost turned into a sympathetic character last night).

I'm going to go w/ Syler eating Nuke's brain and then blowing up since he can't get a hold of the power before he goes bang.

Will you settle for Magneto? Or at least Ozymandias? They are clearly setting up Linderman as the Magneto type of "Break a few eggs to make an omelette" type of character.

I bet Linderman answers to someone. And you KNOW Hiro's dad was in that group and is... richer.

Edit: I want to see Grandma and Linderman fight. Gonna happen. Edge of the seat geriatric action.

If George Takei really turns out to be a Yakuza Boss with superpowers, that could be a nice addition to the geriatric mix.

I'm with you, to a certain point.

I think what they were TRYING to get with the actor is an 'everyday man' kind of thing.  He was probably the hardest person to cast, ya know?

But in a roundabout way they succeeded:  We don't like him for <whatever reason>, and we're talking about him.


He probably will go out in a bang. 


I personally think Roberts is perfect for the roll he's in.  He's got the psycho-evil part down pat. 

As far as Linderman is concerned, I don't think all the cards are out on the table quite yet. 

Yeah, I'm a fan of Eric Roberts --- Despite him having a 30 year career making bad Cinemax films.  :-D

The guy had a lot of talent in the past, but decided to just make money (or something, I don't know). He's similar to Mickey Rourke, as far as self sabotage goes.

[EDIT]


To be fair, it may not even be the actor I dislike. I mean, Syler, the character, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. His malice doesn't make any sense to me. Why is he so vicious? What the fuck is his problem? I find that whole angle about him irritating. I'd think a real Syler, someone who was pretty much just a regular guy on a quest for power like that, would probably be more non chalant and amoral-like. Not mean.

Sylar = Stereotypical kid picked last in dodgeball dirt kicked in their eyes as a kid and now has a power and wants to get even with everyone psycho?

I'd go with that assessment of Sylar.  He really wanted to be special, now he can't stop becoming more special.  He's a testament to why you shouldn't fill kids full of that "you're unique and special" crap in grammar school.

I think the reason Mohinder didn't just shoot him after KOing him was that Mohinder is still too good to do it.  Sure, he did that whole paralyze and attempt to get evil on Sylar thing, but that didn't work out too well for him and perhaps was just a bit of the whole "hero is tempted by evil" aspect of the hero's journey.

Or maybe I spent too much time in lit classes in furtherance of my English degree.

He might have been afraid it would wake him.  It did happen the last time.

I still don't fully understand it myself though.  I'd have been turning the bastard into little cubes after going through what Mohinder did.

But.... But... If he was so encompassed by fear, then why wasn't he afraid to drag Petrelli's cold, lifeless, eyes-rolling-back-in-head, bloody body outside his apartment (which, more than likely, wasn't on the first floor), put him in a cab, and then drive all the way to Manhattan?  If he had the nerve to do that, then he should have had to nerve to pop a cap in Sylar. :-P

Peter's passive abilities work only when he activates them or when the person from which he gained them is nearby.  Thusly, he couldn't have healed himself from being dead without Claire being there (or Linderman, as I was expecting).  Honestly they should have let Peter die, as the whole "Clash of the Titans" thing is boring.  Much more interesting to have the individual weaker characters have to fend off Sylar without their overpowered protector.

Also, what use does Lindy have for Micah?  To fix Mohinder's father's laptop?  So Lindy can ... do something... with the DNA thing?

Micah is going to rig the electoric voting to make sure Nathan wins.

Claire was unable to heal from a brain wound until the item was removed from her head, just like Peter. 

Well, yes, but her ability is passive.  Peter's healing ability doesn't work all the time, same as his invisibility and every other ability he has that's passive for the original character.

Peter wouldn't have healed at all if Claire wasn't there, is all I'm saying.

We don't really know if Peter can heal or not from being dead without Claire being there.  Similar to when Claire had that branch stuck in her head, the shard of glass had pierced Peter's brain, and with it stuck in there, the regeneration couldn't happen.  Personally, as the regen's a passive ability, I think it's always on for him now that he's learning to use his powers.  In fact, now that I think about it,  I'm pretty sure the fall off of the Devaux building and onto the cab killed him, but he still regenerated.  But I'm not certain of that, technically he could have been bleeding out and almost dead when the power kicked in.  The interesting thing will be if/how he realizes he has super hearing now, or if and when he realizes some of the other powers Sylar has given him. 

Only reason he healed in her presence is because she removed the giant shard of glass from his brain.  I know this comes off as Star Wars v. Star Trek nerd fury, but you seem to be completely missing the angle they went for with that scene.

They've done a pretty decent job of tying the brain to character's super powers.  The one guy that can suppress memories can suppress a person's powers.  Sylar eating (or whatever he does) brains to absorb powers?  Seems to be a reasonable assumption that a brain wound in the only way Peter or Claire can die (as already demonstrated).

Invisibility guy's power isn't passive either.  He has to activate it.  You know, that whole episode with him working with Mr. Bennet?

Star trek!  and watch the end of Ep14 again.  From 37 minutes or so.

Good points about the brain, but I still feel that Peter would have been all dead instead of mostly dead if Claire had been in Europe already. 


Ok, you've got that one.

Edited to try and make a bit more sense

Unless he knows that his past self is about to do something really really dumb and destructive, and he's decided that the only way for him to prevent it is to end his own existence.  Future-badass-with-swords Hiro has that "angry brooding hero" thing going on that usually indicates a tragic and guilt-ridden past.  (Yeah, still a really long shot.)

They don't need a supernatural electronic wiz kid for that.

Linderman didn't, until the first plan fell through, as he mentioned to Jessica/Niki/whoever.  Per the comic, Hana the Internet Girl found out about his plan to use deliberate flaws in the voting software to have the election go to Nathan, and screwed it up.  So now, Linderman's basically going with the sledgehammer approach, ie, Micah.  Which also convienently sets it up to where everyone will be in New York around the time of Peter's potential blowing up. 

Not true. He turned invisible during the fight with Sylar, even though the Invisible Man was nowwhere near. He also healed himself when the Invisible Man threw him off the roof and Claire was in Texas.

The only reason he healed was because Claire removed the glass from his brain stem. That's the only way to kill the regnerators, damage the brain stem or keep it from working. Once the damage is removed, the whole power starts working again.

He also healed himself as Sylar was cutting into his skull.. which is why Sylar stopped in the first place.

Actually no. In the episode where the Doctor through him off the roof, Peter tells him that the last thing he remembered before he hit was how he felt when he had saved Clair, or something along that line. They surmized that his power was empathic and he had to bring up emotional triggers related to the people he pulled poweres from to get those powers to surface.

I'm agreeing with the idea that the only reason he healed after Claire pulled the shard was her presence. Had someone else removed the shard earlier, he likely would have healed the moment Clair got close to him.

Again, he was consious and able to activate his healing power once he realized "oh fuck, that hurts". Peter hasn't gotten to the point of using his powers instinctively yet, which is why Sylar keeps kicking his ass.

Gonna disagree on that; it is just like when Claire in an early episode with a branch lodged in her spine or brain or whatever cannot heal until the obstruction is removed.  To say that when the glass shard is removed from Peter's head and he regenerates only because Claire was in proximity is over-thinking it.  It's just a nice moment for the two of them to meet again but had someone else noticed and thought to remove the shard he would have begun healing at that moment as well.  imho.

Peter would have a hard time realizing Claire was next to him to active his power when, y'know, dead.  We know it was triggered in the fight with Sylar so my guess is it was only suppressed while the glass was lodged in his brain.

Lindeman having Micah also means he has a tool to use against MPD girl.  At least until she goes psycho.

MPD girl?

See, now I have to disagree. Peter has shown that when in the presence of other muties with persistant powers, they kick in for him automatically. He didn't need to make the healing kick in, because Clair was beside him.

He went invisible when near the Doctor, he healed the first time he was near Clair, he could hear thoughts when near Parkman. When he is not near them, he needs to bring memories and emotions regarding that person to the surface to activate the power.

Basically, if his healing power was always on, so would the mind reading and the invisibility likely be.

Multiple personality disorder girl

Bah.  Read what I said.  We said the same thing.

As stated in Ep 14 Minute 37:10, Peter has to think about how the original power owner made him feel to use their power when they are not around.  Thusly, when dead, he cannot think and cannot regenerate.

When they are around, he can use their power without thinking.  There are multiple examples of this with Claire already.

Peter can use the abilities at will. Plain and simply. But it's at will.

When other people are around, it becomes an automatic thing when necessary.

It's pure comic book schlock.

He needs THIS now! Ok, do it. OK, he has this power, he needs it. OK, do it. Claire's around, let's just do that automagic bullshit again. OK, do it.

Comic book guys, comic book.

Speaking of which, the whole silly arguement is much more entertaining when read in this guy's voice:

(http://www.mlive.com/cgi-bin/prxy/weblog_photos/nph-cache.cgi/cache=3000;/mtlogs/mlive_projectmayhem/images/cbg.jpg)

My view is that a wizard did it.  Anytime you see something you don't understand, a wizard did it.

I think he keeps getting his ass kicked, because he just isn't very bright.  How long does it take for him to realize that the glass floating in the air in front of Sylar is going to be shot at him?  Why stand right in front of him with your back turned to him?  Is that what his instincts told him to do?  What a HERO! (I kept thinking he'd just stand directly behind Sylar....I don't know. Seemed obvious to me.)

And you guys already covered the part where they didn't kill Sylar while he was on the floor unconscious.  That was purely bad writing there, in my opinion.  Just plain stupid.  He took the time to pick up a dead body and leave without finishing off the guy that killed his father?  Then, he goes and enlists another bad guy to go kill Sylar.  WTF?

I wanted a nice little epic battle with both of them escaping for one reason or another.  And I got this?  Very dissappointing.

It was very entertaining still, I thought. I might be going against popular opinion here, but I've never really cared about plot holes much. When characterizations and motivations seem off, when actors fall apart, when dramatic levels are poor, or when the pacing bothers me, that's when I feel something is ruined. I can't say that I care a lot about whether the world I'm watching or reading on the screen or page follows all the rules of logic or not.

Not that I don't care at all. I'm just saying that good drama covers a multitude of sins. If I worried about plot holes too much, then I couldn't enjoy pretty much anything (so fuck that).

Well, to play Devil's advocate for Mohinder....remember, he'd just tried to kill Sylar, and failed miserably and promptly had the shit kicked out of him for however long.  As he later said, he was in over his head.  So, he could try to kill Sylar, and likely fail, and then Peter would still be there with a brain Sylar could gain all sorts of powers from.  Or, he could do what he did, which was a lucky break to even knock Sylar out, grab Peter's body, and run, which would at least prevent Sylar from getting Peter's powers. 

The more I've thought over it, the whole scene bothers me less.  Yeah, it was a bit lame for Peter to go down like he did, but when it's all said and done, this is the origin story for Peter and the others.  Shit won't always go right for them, and generally there are alot of stupid mistakes to be made.  For an example from the comics, look at Batman:  Year One.  The first time he goes out there to do some good, it's in a normal getup, and it doesn't go well at all.  He ends up getting a TV to the head and stabbed in the leg, as I recall.  Peter's just figured out how to control some of his powers, and it's made him cocky.  This will bring him down to earth a bit.  Lots of heroes have that humbling or otherwise unpleasant moment when they're first starting out that help form them into what they become. 

The upcoming episode is one I'm looking forward to alot, one of the reasons being we get to see what Peter, Hiro, and the others become once they've mastered their powers. 

Zomg. Awesome. Splendid, if you prefer.

Wugga wugga wugga, bitches.

Best episode so far, IMO.

Yup, definately agree.  I didn't think last episode could be beat, but this one flat out hammers it into the ground.

Giggity giggity that was awesome. 

That bit  at the end of the family reunion was one of the top "Oh Shit!" moments In my television experience.


Totally fucking Splendid

So. Wait. The Villain is Harry Dresden attacking Gandalf with an Invisible Car while flying to Hogwarts?

I'm so confused.

Peter and Hiro as dark brooding Matrix-esque badasses tearing up a building full of guards made the episode awesome all on their own.  Zowie.

I want it to be next Monday now, please.

Fucking fuck that splendid shit.


It was awesome though.

The bleakest part of that future was that 5 years later they still hadn't managed to kill Sylar and he was still outwitting them.

Dark, brooding future Hiro fucked up.  Everyone, including him, thought it was Sylar that blew up New York.  That's why he was so obsessed with saving Claire as the key to saving the future.  So now cheerful Hiro goes back and kills Sylar but that's not going to stop the explosion since it's Peter that blows up.  This show is amazing!  :-D

Yeah, that was truly the best yet. All you fuckers that bitched about not enough happening in episodes should now be able to see why that stuff is good for the show. It makes great episodes like the last two that much better when shit just starts colliding all together, and yet none of it feels rushed, and the characters make sense.

I think this one proved that Sylar's really a badass, he just hasn't had the opportunities yet to go major fuck my eyeballs badass. Sylar as Nathan-President was truly some good evil. I'm proud to say I knew exactly what was up when Nathan said "I know how things work." Peter and Hiro as badass Matrix building killers was splendid in all new ways.

Worse yet, if Future Sylar wins that Pete-Sylar showdown or even just drives Peter off, then HE now has the ability to time travel and supress powers while ripping the memories out of people's heads.

 Woo for supermunchkin time-traveling uber-sylar!

Peter and Hiro definately made the episode.  I really, really liked Peter's turn towards being a brooding badass, moreso than Hiro.  The move where he telekinetic threw the guard against the wall that charged him was freaking so simplistically awesome in it's approach. 

The Sylar/Nathan thing worked so well.  I could *see* Nathan getting powerhungry and caught up in everything to where I could see him saying "I'm the most special person in the world" lines to Claire.  The fact that it turned out to be Sylar was a twist, at least to me, though I can say I kinda did see it happening.  It could have gone either way, to me.

But awesome, awesome show.

I get goosebumps thinking about it NOW, much less watching it.

But how does he get the Haitian's powers or Hiro's powers?  Future Hiro gets shot and all, and the Haitian is all deadified or something in the other room, but do we know if he can then snag powers once the people have been dead a while?  Sure if he kills Peter, then maybe he gets all the powers that Peter has absorbed, but my sense would be that he'd only get the absorbing power.

Some of them just weren't that well done (and I wasn't just pointing out action, but character related stuff too). Saying that I shouldn't have bitched because some future unseen episodes would be better is no kind of excuse. A lot of shows can manage to make early set up stuff interesting still (or even better than the finale parts, for that matter). You can have both.

Sylar seems to think that he'd get all of the absorbed powers (he says "can't wait to try that one" when Peter turns invisible during their showdown in the previous ep).  If Peter's powers have become imprinted on his brain somehow I can see that working.

Either way, I don't think I'd want to take the chance if I were Peter.   :-)

This did too.  Your opinion was just wrong.   :-D

That's a different point then, and not one worth arguing about.  :-)

Isn't it?   :-D

This is unfornately is not a possible in Heros.  The timeline is set by fate.  Sylar cannot defy fate anymore than Hiro could save Rosetta Stone Girl. Which is why he was upset after seeing the future with Isac's powers.  He was shown his fate to get pwned by Hiro. 

Which begs the question, how can they defy fate and save New York? Although I guess you can say that Isac's drawings are from the "aberrent" timeline and don't represent the "true" timeline.

I don't like it when stories use throw-away timelines, but they really did good job with it.

Time was changed once when Claire was saved, though.

Or was it?  Everyone *thought* that Claire was dead the whole time in Hiro's future, and when he got back from his time travelling, nothing had changed as far as he could tell, despite having saved her life.

It does beg the question of how Sylar survived being stabbed, though, since both Claire and Sylar were alive in the future.  Maybe Claire had nothing to do with his survival after all.

See this is why time travel mucks things up.  I thought that the reason why nothing had changed in the future even though Peter saved Claire was that Hiro is still a timid, yet improving, geek when he pulls Ando and himself forward five years.  Since Hiro had yet to get badass enough to consider doing something like stabbing Sylar, that never happened or something silly.  The galvanizing event that made him into brooding badass Hiro (according to last night's episode) was Ando's death when the bomb destroys NY.  It seems that's going to happen anyway since it's Peter who goes FWOOM and not Sylar.  So maybe he had the chance to stab Sylar, missed it, someone goes FWOOM, Ando dies, Hiro gets badass. 

Or maybe Hiro doesn't see himself stabbing Sylar in the comic until he finds it in the future.  I can't recall whether that specific comic was something Hiro read in the past timeline.  Maybe that's why he never actually does it. 

Stupid time travel. 

Could the person in the comic NOT be Sylar, and instead it's Peter?  Both are dark headed, both generally need a shave.  Hiro stabs Peter.  Peter regens.  Goes nuclear later.

Alternatively, if they know in the future that Peter goes nuclear, why not just off Peter here and now and avoid the entire thing altogether?  Or just get Peter out of dodge to Paris or where ever.

Granted it doesn't make for good TV...

So maybe it's not Peter that goes nuclear.  It IS Sylar.

You know the guy that nearly goes nuclear everytime somebody looks at him funny, might be the one that... you know... goes nuclear.

Just saying.

Claire WAS saved in the future timeline, Hiro just didn't know it, since Peter and Nathan were all trying to keep her being alive a secret. Sylar wasn't the bomb according to Peter. The show has gone to great pains to show that you can't change the past. I'm thinking we already know the ending to this season, we just haven't seen it all yet, unless they are trying to say you CAN change your future (Present-day Hiro can change the bomb event) but you can't change your past (Present-day Hiro couldn't save the waitress and Future Hiro couldn't stop the event himself).

If Claire was saved, how did Sylar live thru the Hiro stabbing?

If Claire WASN'T saved, how was she living in Midland, Texas?

I'm going to guess that if there is a speck of Claire left, she completely regens?

Fuck if I know.

Big plot hole, IMHO.  Seems like something like that would get sniffed out because it's so damn obvious.

Right, but if the brain is the one part that can't automagically instaheal (like with the glass shard removal thing from last week), and Sylar needs to access ye olde brainpanne to take a power, wouldn't a pulled-out and possibly mangled brain kind of vitiate any healing factor?

As I see it: 

Timeline 1:  Sylar gobbles Claire's brain, gets to New York, gobbles Sprague's brain.  Hiro, somehow, knows who Sylar is, and stabs him.  Sylar regens, but the trauma/anger/whatever from the wound causes him to lose control and he nukes the city.  We know Sylar's not stable, so a loss of control would not be a surprise.  Sylar lives on, in secret.  If he takes over Nathan's identity, who knows, but I expect so.  Future Hiro didn't react strangely to the future being how it was when he got back.  It was the same.  Anyway, he builds his timeline, gathering every piece of info he can.  He has snapshots of news articles, Isaac paintings, everything.  Even, from what I remember glimpsing, a painting we won't see in it's painting form until next week's episode.  He works on this timeline until he determines what went wrong and where.  He stabbed Sylar.  Sylar healed.  Sylar blew up.  He tracks that power to Claire Bennet, and determines her to be the key.  Hiro decides that, if Sylar did not have her power, he would have been stopped in time.  (In the comic posted to coincide with .07, Future Hiro reminsices on events as he builds his timeline.  We see nerdy Hiro with a bloody sword, as the man in front of him explodes.  We also see a picture of Claire attached to the timeline, while in the background we see the scene of a Claire laying dead and brainless.)  So, he sets about to change the past, and to save Claire.  So, he gives a message for his past self to Peter Petrelli in the past.  He does this to avoid a rift/paradox.  This changes the past in ways Hiro did not anticipate though. 

Timeline 2:  This is the timeline he creates.  Peter meets Claire, interferes with Sylar, and saves Claire.  Sylar does not gain her regeneration power.  In the process, he gets exposed to several powers at once, causing him to go into a coma, as well as triggering his prophetic dreams power he got from...someone we aren't sure of yet.  Peter sees himself blow up.  Due to this, it's likely he starts mastering his powers sooner than he did in the first timeline, or at least in a different manner.  When Claude's training him, he uses regen and telekinesis first, powers he only had because he was in Odessa to save Claire, all thanks to Future Hiro.  When Peter next encounters Sylar, the regeneration takes Sylar by surprise, giving Peter the chance to act.  How they first meeting originally happened, we'll likely never know, but chances are it involved Peter manifesting telekinesis by instinct in a desire to get Sylar away from him, spooking Sylar off.  Anyway, Sylar runs off, later chows down on Isaac's brain, but it happens differently this time than it did when Hiro jumped to witness it.  Small details are changed.  Eventually, though, Peter comes across Sprague, and is unable to get out of New York.  Somehow, he loses control of the power and goes nuclear.  Even Sprague has troubles controlling the power, so it's not a stretch to see Peter have issues when he first gets it and something goes wrong.  Then we see the episode of the future.  Future Hiro changed the past, but not in a way that ultimately matters as far as he's concerned.  If he had, it technically would have invoked a paradox, as he would then have no reason to warn himself.  He also, though, has no recollection of the 'past' as he has changed it in his current time.  He's become an anomaly in time, basically.  But....Past Hiro has seen the future and has been given clues to to change it, which means a 3rd timeline can be created.  Which is what the next few episodes will entail. 

Basically, time travel's a pain in the ass.

Peter nuked the city in all the timelines.  Future Hiro just thinks Sylar's at fault because Peter never told him the truth.

He dun fucked up.

Not really. You just have to obey the 12 laws.

Good thing the heroes have Doctor Who on their side.  :evil:

Exactly.  Somehow Sylar survived the stabbing without having Claire's powers, because in this episode we saw him gobbling Claire's brain 5 years after he got stabbed by Hiro.

What if it wasn't really Sylar that Hiro stabbed?

Illusion Lady?

Sylar himself got illusion lady.  Hence pretending to be Nathan. 

As to Sylar surviving, I think one of the powers he grabbed between telekinesis and Charlie's memory power was some sort of biofeedback and/or increased toughness power.  He was able to walk, or at least limp, away from the fall that basically killed Peter in Odessa.  He was able to somehow fake being dead while in captivity, fight off the effects of being drugged by Mohinder, and he's survived being shot, as seen when he was chased away from the Bennet house.  In the comic for that episode, he makes a comment while recovering about how 'these bullet holes wouldn't be a problem' if he had Claire's power, implying that he can survive quite a bit, and heal relatively quickly from his injuries, just not as well as if he had the regeneration power.  Hell, the slam into the wall and bookcase in Mohinder's apartment didn't faze him, only being hit pretty hard in the head by surprise afterwards had much of an effect. 

My take is that he's using TK to minimize damage to himself, e.g. sapping the energy out of (or stopping entirely) bullets, maybe slowing his fall off the bleachers a bit, et cetera.  They haven't really made that explicit, though, apart from stopping the bullet when Mohinder tried to shoot him.

I'm going w/ Hiro stabbing Peter while Peter is all shiney w/ the nuke powers, and mistakenly thinking it was Sylar, and Peter never ever correcting him.

Dick.

How much of a Star Wars geek am I that when I read "TK", the first thing that came to mind was Tera Kasi?

/shoots self

Perhaps that is the source of Peter's scar.

A lot more than me.  I read it as "Team Killing."  erp.

Psycho.

Tell your avatar to drop her pants a bit lower.  Kthx.

You asking for Ironwood?

My theory on the Sylar still being alive after being stabbed and Clair being alive is that the actions of Future Hiro are starting to effect his time line, since Claire was saved, but in the other timeline they havent got to the bomb blowing up (even though where in the line they are shouldnt matter) Sylar hasnt had the chance to be stabbed yet with out clairs powers. So Sylar is still alive cause Present Day Hiro hasnt stabbed him, but Clair is alive because she has already been saved.

I know that breaks some of the "laws of time travel" but thats how I read it from the show.

Oh yeah.

I thought I understood what was going on after watching the episode. Then I read what people were saying here and decided I didn't understand it at all. Now I understand it again.

That was my original idea, but it made no "time travel" sense.  Now I see that it does.

Wow - I missed it monday so I haven't read this thread until I saw the torrent version I just saw. Holy Shit. What a great fucking episode. I have to sit in a quiet place for a bit and absorb it, but wow.

Hiro got the final comic in the future from Mohinder.  It is the one Isaac gave to the courier a few hours before his death, and the finding "a way to stop you" he was taunting Sylar about.

Future Hiro also had a page out of that comic that he gave to Ando right before he died.  My guess is it shows Ando dying. 

This is how i see it:

- Sylar kills clair, absorbs her power

- Hiro stabs Sylar, Sylar regens

- New York blows up

- 5 years later Hiro goes back in time, warns Peter

- Peter saves Claire, Claire goes into hiding making everyone think shes dead

- New York still blows up, future Hiro wonders wtf happened

The first instance of Hiro stabbing Sylar happened when they didn't save Claire, Hiro hasn't stabbed Sylar with Claire alive yet.  If i had to guess Hiro will kill Sylar and it will do jack shit to stop the bomb.  They have really written themselves into a corner with Peter though, and i hate to see them take the "conviniently forget your powers" route like a lot of comic books have done in the past.  Future Hiro, his good friend, got shot in the fucking back, the Haitian aka the only dude who can stop him is dead, and the only thing he can think to do is slam the door in Parkmans face?  HELLO YOU CAN FREEZE TIME.  Parkman should have been disemboweled a milisecond after shooting Hiro and Sylar has absolutely zero chance against time freezing Peter.

I can't find the post now, but there was a sub-conversation going that included Sylar escaping from Primatech Papers by dodging the Haitian's powers. If I recall that episode correct, the Haitian was a) off with Claire's foster dad intercepting somebody, and didn't return to Primatech with him. As such, Sylar was first able to take out the girl and then take out Claire's dad to escape. Sometime thereafter Claire's dad hooked back up with the Haitian.

And shit if my memory doesn't suck. Apologies for having to use "Claire's dad" and "The Haitian" and "the girl" instead of their real names.

Back onto where we currently are in the thread: I don't think Hiro stabbed Sylar in the main timeline. I think the comic book page showing him do so was created prior to him jumping forward 5 years but depicted a time after the day he jumped. Like, the artwork shows Hiro stabbing Sylar on a Wednesday. But Hiro is in the warehouse on a Tuesday and jumps forward 5 years. As such, he's not around on that Wednesday to do the deed, altering the future to the one he lands in.

One thing I gotta say about the time travel in Heroes is they seem to do a fairly good job of having it make sense, and better than wimping and by using "there's infinite timelines" from Star Trek (not that Paramount wimped out per se, depending on your understanding of quantum mechanics, of which I know dick-all about except something having to do with multiple timelines. I just feel multiple timelines is an easy plot cop-out when abused).

Yes, the fact that nobody just stops time to kill Sylar is just yet another annoying thing about Sylar. 

As I've said, he must have picked up a power along the way that makes every stupid when he's around attacking them.

I want a new villain please.

Oh, and why didn't Peter ever pick up the Haitian's power?  Chicken or the egg situation?  Who copies/cancels the other first?

I thought Peter did get the Haitians power. That's why they needed him to get into the facility in the future.

Maybe he just never had a strong emotional reaction to the Haitian?

I'm pretty sure being around the Haitian at any point and not being able to use his own powers would evoke a pretty strong emotion.

That's to say, there was plenty of opportunity to absorb that. Now learning to trigger that particular power is another story.

I really think the copycat power is canceled by the Haitian.

Off the tangent, the way evolution works (as a gene defect in the offspring that might or might not be beneficial) the egg was there first, the animal that laid the egg was a genetical predecessor, some sort of Almostbutnotyetthere-chicken. That much-quoted question is no question at all.  :-D

Was it a chicken egg or an almostbutnotyetthere-chicken egg?  Who determines the type of egg, the parent or the offspring?  Unfertilized chicken eggs are still chicken eggs, so maybe the chicken was first...

It was a chicken-embryo, the chicken-egg (or almostbutnotyetthere-chicken egg) is just a means for the embryo to nourish itself and grow up in. The actual mutation happened most likely in the sperm because sperms are divided more often than ova (and mutations are bascially just copying errors in cell division).

Of course the embryo is just the product of the ovum of the egg and the sperm of the fertilization, so the mutation could theoretically have happened in both parts.

Damn, now we are at "What was first, the ovum or the sperm". At least we will never have to ask why the ovum crossed the street.

TBH I think Hiro's power, while very cool, is probably one of the dumbest ones to introduce if you want to avoid the whole, "forgetting they have a super-duper power that's an I win button," problem. Pretty much any instance where Hiro (or Peter) is in a fight or has to do anything can be solved by freezing time and doing whatever they want to unless you can come up with a really good reason why not. The Haitian worked well. Arguably when Future Hiro gets shot Peter doesn't freeze time because he needs to delay Sylar so Past Hiro can escape but seeing as Sylar wouldn't be able to fight back and Past Hiro could escape anyway the only plausible reason is that Peter wants to make him suffer.

It also reminded me of the scene in the comic where future Peter and Hiro break into a prison to free people and don't freeze time because then they'd have to drag everyone out one by one. Basically they're being lazy and even so can just hit that 'I win' button when trouble starts. The writers really should have thought about building in some semi-plausible limitations to Hiro's power to justify his not using them anytime anything happens, ever.

Present-day Hiro has limitations.  He sucks at controlling his powers.

I was thinking of another explantion to what I posted before.

Future Hiro didnt stab Sylar. He stabbed Peter. He said he stabbed the person who was going to blow up right? Also the world thinks Sylar blew up. Maybe it was Peter shapeshifted to look like Sylar, or it was Peter already blowing up, so Hiro couldnt tell it was him.

No he said he stabbed Sylar, but Sylar regened.  What i've been wondering for the past month or so is what the heck happened to that chick that could IM you with her mind, she sorta showed up one episode and talked nuclear guy into going after Bennet then just buggered off never to be seen again.

I've got a feeling with that one that in Future Hiro's original timeline that it was Sylar who blew up. Saving Claire has changed this somehow and now it is Peter who goes blooey and either Nathan or Sylar-pretending-to-be-Nathan have covered this fact up and blamed it on Sylar.

TBH this seems the only way to read it so that it makes sense rather than Peter morphed as Sylar (an ability I don't think Peter has shown yet so no garuantee he gets it). Assuming that the they're treating time travel as a "come to the future and find out what's different!" affair for Future Hiro that they seem to have done.


In the comic she's working with Bennet (HRG) and broken into the Pentagon to find out the back story for Linderman and daddy Petrelli.

Didn't future-painter-guy figure out that it was Peter who goes kablooey well before future-Hiro met Peter on the subway?

So, Hiro's time-traveling didn't affect who blew up the city.  So it was the same person in the original timeline.

I believe, but I could be wrong, that she was the chick helping Bennet in the future.  And so she died too, thanks to Matt. 

Well that was a rather slow episode.  At least now it seems that all of the pieces are in place.  I also like the stuff with Sylar and his mom -- it gives a bit of insight into his particular brand of crazy/evil.

It also finally ties back to some of the very early episodes with Mohinder and Eden before we ever actually see Sylar.  There's the message on Chandra's answering machine where Sylar talks about how he can't control 'the hunger' and how he didn't want to do what he was doing.  Then they find that room at Sylar's apartment with 'I have sinned' and 'Forgive Me' scrawled all over the walls.  For a long time it seemed like the writers had abandoned that part of Sylar's personality. It was nice to see them pick up and explore that facet of his character again.  It makes him a much more interesting character instead of the mostly one-dimensional killing automation he's been for most of the time we've seen him.

Was I the only one who found the whole Sylar plotline awfully excecuted? This episode contained some of the worst (Sylar)  scenes in the whole series.

Can you explain why? I agree entirely with Nevermore. It brought back a lot of the stuff that seemed out of place and put it into perspective. It also gives a fair bit more insight into Sylar and also breeds the slightest amount of pity for the guy.

Yes it does all that, I am completely fine with the intention of the scenes, however the way the scenes were filmed/ executed was just plain horrible. It could just be that I have something against the actor, but imho it's not even the actor, it's deeper. It's the whole choreography, choice of viewpoints, the whole background has a very flimsy feel around it. I just don't buy it, not in the way it is represented in those scenes.

Ya, it was poorly directed.

I like that we're seeing new abilities from Sylar.  Stuff I haven't seen before: frost hands.

Also, did we confirm he has some sort of resiliance trait?  Fighting through the Haitian's power, kicking the time stop from Hiro, etc.

I'm miles behind you guys on the episodes, but the first family he killed (where the psychic cop was first involved and met the FBI Ugly from Faculty) were found Iced and removed.

I'd figured he had some kinda ice-power.

Once again, I show how good my memory really is.

I dunno, the artist certainly painted someone exploding but that painting isn't identifiable as anyone specifically. He certainly assumed it was Peter but I can't remember if the whole 'Peter explodes New York' thing started happening after he saved Claire or not. If it did I think my version holds up, if he was having dreams about going kablooey beforehand then I guess there's some other conclusion coming up.

I don't remember that episode.....

Is that the one where Matt "heard" the kid in a closet, and her parents where stapled to the wall?

The most recent episode sucked. Next.

Yes and No.

The mother was stapled to the Staircase with what appeared to be Fire Pokers and tongs.

The father was sitting normally at the dining table, frozen, with half his head cutaway.

But you're broadly right.

Sylar doesn't necessarily unstop time after Hiro stops it.  It's very possible that Hiro's power isn't of indefinite duration, or that, you know, he sucks at controlling it.  He couldn't make himself kill Sylar, and so his own internal conflict caused him to be distracted enough to drop the time freeze.

Yeah, I took it as Hiro losing his nerve more than Sylar doing anything.

The little girl was the same little girl from this episode also.  It was kind of a slow episode, but it had a lot of nice touches i thought.  Like Claires excited "cool!" when she learns dad can fly, or Sylar being upset about killing 3 million innocents when he has no remorce at all about killing specials because he thinks they don't deserve it.  Now that i think about it he reminds me a lot of Syndrome from The Incredibles.

It was a very slow episode, and weaker than the last few. You could tell it was a "setting the pieces up" episode, and probably had to be done before the final boom boom episodes, but damn it was weak until the last scene. Seeing Peter's hands get glowy 2 days early was great.

The Sylar scenes didn't completely ring true to me until he kills his mother, then it all made a sick bit of sense. Killing his mother was an internal struggle, to kill that last bit of contrition in him. He's got nothing but the hunger for power now. I also saw Sylar breaking out of the power as Hiro losing his nerve. He seems to lose fine control over his powers the more he doubts himself.

I'm curious how they'll resolve the issue with Hiro's sword.  Will he do a "Dumbo" and realize he never needed it at all, or will he do an "Aragorn" and get some other hero to fix it just in time for him to save the day?

Looking back at the teaser, I'm guessing it's a little bit of both.  Sulu arrives and gives Hiro a new sword (a family heirloom) and his blessing, restoring Hiro's self-confidence and his powers.

I also thought that part of his regret for blowing up NY was the fact that his mother lived there.  I was thinking he went there to see if there was any reason to save her somehow.  I guess he took care of that business early.  She also probably showed him that normal humans would never accept him for him, so screw them all.

Now that we know that all the "Old Timer" heroes (Linderman, Peter's Mom, Eric Robert's character, etc.) are all in this thing together, I'm more confused than ever.  It seems like every conspiracy group is aligned to have one thing happen, Blow Up New York.  We still haven't seen anything that hints at why this has to happen or how they know it needs to happen.  I imagine this has been in planning since before any of the "new" heroes had been born, so did they have their own fortune teller in their group?

This is all based on my own theory that a group of "heroes" were in existence 25-30 years prior and did some things together.  Some of those things were good and some bad.  Something big happened and forced them to go underground (a la Incredibles only darker.)  They've been plotting all of these activities with their own offspring, etc.  

I originally thought there were several "old timer" groups doing several different things, but now I have to change that theory.  Confused I am.

I mention a very early fortune teller only because for some reason nothing surprises these guys.  Sylar, Hiro jumping around, etc.  It is like they already saw the script from years ago and are just making sure things head in that general path.

You're not reading the online comic.  This is close to the case. Linderman served in Vietnam with Peter's dad in a black-ops unit.  Linderman was the only guy with powers, but they took-out a Vietnameese girl (about 12) who had a power as well.  Lindermann didn't want to do it because he was like her, and he tried to stop Petrelli. Petrelli succeeded and said something along the lines of "sometimes people have to die so that more can live" foreshadowing Linderman's own "Lets nuke NY" agenda, which Linderman starts up later (in the 70s?) by finding Petrelli again.

It seems to me that there is only one "old timer" group of heroes.  At first, I thought Primatech was one entity and Linderman was another, now I am not so sure.  I haven't kept up with the online comic very well, but it sure seems like that's the case -- it's all one group and maybe they don't all know that they're all the same group.  I also am looking forward to seeing how Parkman and Ted react to the whole "destroy the Walker tracking system" theory when they find out that the tracking system is a little girl.  Heck, I sometimes wonder if Bennett even KNOWS that it's a little girl.  After all, he's just middle management.

I am not that sure Petrelli's mother was actually his mother. For some reason I got the Illusion Lady vibe from her, which could be true, as she is in NY too.

We found out a few episodes that Primatech Paper Group is headed by Linderman. Although I would put money on the fact that next season starts with us finding out that Linderman is just a pawn for another more evil and shadowy group.

I am a bit disappointed that they set up all these different factions, and now the majority of them are turning our to be arms of the same faction. Its more interesting when there are several different goals going on not just "Supprise, we work for them TOO!!!"

She would be nice for Sylar to get his hands on. Guess Peter can't ever meet her either.

Interesting.  With Linderman supplying her with all of the mother's information? 

I just wonder how she could be both at the Petrelli house AND holding Micah hostage at the same time.

I think it was really Nathan's mom.  No need to have the illusionist involved.

OK, I am up to #5. The best part is the things that are not said. For TV this is some damn fine writing.

Linderman actually explains that he and his organization have been guiding events towards a major tragedy in New York City with the goal of uniting the globe a few episodes ago.  Also, in the episode just before this one we see Sylar and Peter go after each other using ice and fire respectively, if only for a few seconds.

Personally, I thought it was more the bushido code thing that caused Hiro to drop the time-freeze right before decapitating Sylar.

I guess he underestimated Sylar's quick-reaction capability.

And I'm ready for him to lose the gimmick sword.

If Ando dies, I will be SERIOUSLY pissed.  He's one of my favorite things about the series.  Although, I am still waiting for the explanation about how he got on Linderman's security team, especially considering the security guys seemed to have him and Hiro on a blacklist.

I don't see Ando dying. I see one of the real Heroes biting it.

I don't know about dying, but I can see Nathan doing something unexpected.  He looked seriously unhappy with mommy dearest and Thompson (or whatever the Primatech guy's name is).

Nathan is going to go against his mother and the Linderman group. They've pretty much been setting him up to do just that, and he'll do it because of Peter. I can see Nathan taking the bomb guy into orbit, killing himself and the bomb guy.

That's a pretty awesome theory.

I'm actually hoping they blow up NY IN THE SHOW Heroes on NBC. (had to add that for all the data miners on the net).  There really hasn't been a television show that 'goes there'.

Could be.  Peter has been freaking out about going nuclear which has made me wonder why he doesn't consider flying away if it happens.

One of the problems with an all-powerful character I suppose.

Alternatively, Peter absorbs Nathan's flight powers long enough to take him up to orbit, and still has Claire's regen. 

Lives to fight another day.

Peter's not Rogue. Once he's got someone's powers, and figures out how to trigger/control them, he can use the powers whenever he wants.

"Take me in return for Un-Special Ando."

Last nights episode was fantastic and the cut at the end got Christine shouting 'Naw, not now !!' at the screen.

It truly is good stuff.

For me, the show could be called "HIRO (and Ando)" and I'd still watch it religiously. 

Yeah, for the last 3 episodes since we have known Peter can do all of the powers anytime, I've thought, why don't you just fly out in the middle of the Atlantic and explode.  You'll survive, nobody gets hurt, etc.  Who know, maybe he'll actually grow some smarts before this is done and actually do that.

I was just theorizing today that perhaps the next season or the 3rd will go all the way back and explain the story behind the elder heroes.  I can see that as a distinct possibility given all of the huge gaps they are providing now.  Heck, they already jumped ahead in time, might as well jump back.

Ya, the comic dealing with Linderman and Petrelli was great, and I'd love to see more of the 'elders' as we're calling them.

As for Peter hanging around, I think he's starting to believe it isn't him.  We'll see next episode I think.  They've given us 3 possibilities (4 if you count a 'surprise' one): Sylar eating Radioactive Man and blowing up NYC out of spite, Radioactive Man blowing up because he loses control/stops caring, Peter blowing up because he can't control the power, or a surprise one is a new character that causes other heros to lose control of their powers (neat concept anyways).  Plus, the 'catch-line' (I fucking hate these btw) from last episode was something like "Who do you think will blow up NYC?" or some shit.

I haven't read the comic yet. In fact, I just learned about it's existence. From page 17.

However, in the last episode, when Linderman is talking to Nathan, he talks in brief about the old timers once working together and then some splinter group going off on its own doing Bad Things(tm). I took that to be the faction split between different views of what the future should be, with one set of old timers wanting to blow up NYC to install Nathan as King of the World while the other group doesn't.

My guess is that Linderman's group is going along on this plan because they started it long ago, but havent factored in Sylar. Meanwhile, Eric Roberts' has factored in Sylar and is trying to adapt a new plan that utilizes Molly to stop Sylar, and along the way counter Lindermans' plans. Plan A is business as usual, Nathan in charge (until it becomes Sylar and he wipes out everyone), Plan B is a revised one, with a future we have no idea about.*

I don't think they'll blow up NYC. Not for "real" in the show. This is a big network and too many people would bitch at them for it. They know only certain types of PR are good PR.

* In a way this reminds me of 'Foundation and Empire', the one where the Foundation has been managing the emergence of the new empire through Psychohistory, and come to realize The Mule is a foil (he having escape from Gaia, Hari Seldon's trump card race/world). As a result there's the Second Empire chasing The Mule to take him down to get psychohistory back on track and then there's the rep from Gaia that helps the main protagonist realize there's a much bigger choice to make: short term return to expected or the long term actual success.

I don't think they'll blow up NY simply because it'll make the series cost a shitload more. It's pointless. New York is a fun place to film superheroes also. It makes certain things more believable.

For a while I also kinda thought that they should end up having the Heroes fail to stop the bomb.  Thinking about it more though, maybe it would have worked if it was a shorter story arc and a couple seasons into the show.  As it stands now though, if the payoff to a season long storyline is that for all their powers, for all the advanced warning they had that this explosion was going to happen, they still were unable to stop it... would people still want to tune into the show next season?  It would set a pretty bleak and helpless tone for the series.

Blowing up New York in the finale is great if you're doing Watchmen.  Not so much if you're doing a network TV series that you're hoping will last around 5 years.

It would be awesome though.

Ok, just read through all the comics. Way surprised by how many there were. How often do they release new ones? Once a week?

*** Light Spoilers. Avoid if you haven't read them yet ***
My favorite side story was with Wireless. I like the character a lot, a human data miner.

I also liked the sidebar of Nathan saving the girl from the fire. I wish there was something along those lines in the show, something to show his "good side", to make us see the conflict in him about letting NY blow up.

Finally, I really liked the chapters dealing with the girl who could command people with her voice.

Two questions I've had for awhile:

Was Sylar a homicidal sociopath before he got his first power after his first run-in with Suresh Senior?
What lead Suresh Senior to Sylar in the first place, if Sylar had no powers? Or was it that Sylar could eat people's brains and absorb their uniqueness that was the power that put him on Suresh's charts?

Something like that.  It seems like they go up right after the episodes air.


There's nothing to suggest that.  It seems like the thing that drove Sylar to kill was the other mutant telling him that he didn't want his power, and asking Sylar to "fix" it.  It was the combination of Sylar's desire to have a cool power and be special, his disappointment that Suresh Senior had told him he wasn't special, this person who WAS special not appreciating it, and the sudden realization that he could figure out what made other people special and take it from them.


Suresh's formula only shows that someone has a power, not what that power is.  Sylar's power (the ability to take things apart and see how they work) just wasn't immediately obvious, so Suresh assumed that the formula was wrong.  Supposedly.  If I were Suresh, I would have investigated the "hey, your watch is off by .001%, hand that over here and I'll fix it before you can say 'huh?'" phenomenon in a bit more depth.   :-P

Ok cool. So then why did telekinesis-man come to Sylar in the first place? Or was it Sylar that reached out to him by seeing his name on Suresh's list?

Oh, and another thing: why would any mutant-based faction, particularly Linderman's, want to proceed with nuking NYC? Do they not realize the tight spot that'd put all mutants in, including Linderman himself, Mrs. Petrelli (who's got some as-yet unknown power) and so on? Is their vision to let the event happen and then take over the world (in which case Sylar screws that up by taking over as Nathan)? Or does Linderman et al hate all mutants and want them to go away (in which case it doesn't matter it's Nathan or Nathan/Sylar?)

I did like the inner conflict of Sylar in the last episode though "why would I do this? what possible gain would there be for me?" At first you think he's starting to question himself. But then you realize it's just hyper narcissism :)

To start a race war they probably would win?

When did this happen exactly? Don't remember seeing that episode or comic, did I miss one? (If so which one, I quite want to see it.)

http://www.nbc.com/Video/rewind/full_episodes/heroes_02.shtml?show=heroes10

Episode 10: Six Months earlier. Part 6 is the one where the conversation takes place. It's where Sylar says, "you're broken". That seems to make him curious about finding other people with abilities. Then I guess over time he starts to like it.

Actually, I think this is the deepest question. You've got ignorant humanity on one side, a group of Illuminati wannabes on the other, and a bunch of folks with abilities caught in the middle. Some just want their normal life back. But others want a higher purpose. Trouble is, the Linderman group (and others) aren't actually talking about what they're about. They simply talk about them existing at all.

Basically, we don't even know who to root for yet :)

Yes, Sylar saw the name and went to see him himself alone.  He was frustrated with not seeing any results with Suresh Senior, so he went to go see this "power" himself.

I think we basically saw recently that Sylar's parents built up this duality into his personality.  He respected his father and liked the watch repair business, but his mother was constantly nagging him to be better than that.  She obviously hated his father for some reason and Sylar didn't like that.  With such opposite ends of the spectrum tearing at him all the time, he snapped. 

He's satisfying his father's memory by "figuring out how things work," and satisfying his mother's insistance that he is "special" and bound for glory.

Oh cool. We get it all year now. Sort of.


Off season spinoff coming... Link (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117964868.html?categoryid=14&cs=1)





Thank you, NBC.

Kick ass.

That's kinda neat.  Stand-alone episodes.

The funny thing is, when I first heard about Heroes, back before it aired, I thought that this was going to be the format of the show (stand-alone episodes each featuring a different character).

I just read today that Heroes is NBC's only hit this season.  They're doing a bunch of schedule jiggering for next season -- dumping stuff, picking up some other shows with "supernatural" themes (that was the word from the CNN article).  It just makes sense to give people more of Heroes.