f13.net

Saints apparently had a bounty system and place under Defensive Coordinator Gregg Williams and after a lengthy investigation, could face stiff penalties. (Draft Picks, etc.)

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Not-so-Saintly-Behavior.html

And now the Washington Post is reporting that the Redskins had such a bounty program in place under Gregg Williams as well.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/new-orleans-saints-had-bounty-system-that-paid-for-injuring-opponents-nfl-announces/2012/03/02/gIQAPNDDnR_blog.html?hpid=z2

as "Drudge Reporty" as they are, Pro Football Talk suggests they should rip the Saints franchise tag away for the season...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/02/league-should-consider-taking-saints-franchise-tag/

Really, with that second report from the Washington Post, I would not be surprised to see Gregg Williams get a significant suspension, if not banned outright.

They are going to have to fire him. The NFL is dealing with concussion case backlash and rules changes on a huge safety campaign, only to have it come out that a D coordinator is trying to take people out of the game through bounties.

Who? The Saints?  He's not with the Saints anymore anyway.  He's with the Rams now.

Yeah, it'll have to be an NFL decision, and given the current climate of injury issues... I would expect to see a possible ban. They're going to be very tough.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/03/02/saints.bounties/index.html

No I mean the NFL will have to fire him. I guess that's a ban. But it's really a firing.

Wow, this is a really unfortunate story. Time to drop the banhammer.

I'm sure nothing will happen to the head coaches, who undoubtedly sanctioned said activity, nor to the players who participated willingly.

Edited to add:  And I think everyone is deluding themselves if they think that this doesn't go on all the time.  It's a violent sport.

That reasoning needs to stop. You are not some unique flower that knows just how violent the sport is.

Of course it probably happens; the difference here is someone got caught red-handed at it.

"But EVERYONE'S doing it" stopped working when we were in high school.

The players will get big fines and suspensions, especially Vilma if the $10k hit on Favre can be corroborated. There's no reason to expect they won't get in trouble... they get big fines during the season for big hits. Mix that in with a commissioner who is clear on trying to make the sport safer.

First and foremost it's a legal problem. That's why the NFL has to react. You can't encourage people to end careers.

Would not be surprising to see the IRS look into it as well.

Colts set to release Manning. Irsay/Manning presser tomorrow.

Thank god. All the bullshit going on beforehand could fill a swimming pool. Let's just be done with this already Colts.

It's the smart thing to do.  A $28 million bonus is a tough thing to swallow over a guy that just missed an entire year.

Fffffuuuuu. It would have been better for us all if the Colts were dumb and signed him. Now we get to hear about him and who's going to pay for his services for weeks beyond what we already have

I think the Colts made a mistake.  The bidding war for Manning should be epic.  Time for wild speculation!  Jacksonville?  He could mentor that clipboard holder down there plus he could play the Colts twice a year for the lulz.

Jets?  I'm not sure he'd like Ryan's big mouth and I think the 'Sanchez' still has fans there.

I don't know, too many teams to think about.

I kinda hope he just retires honestly. I doubt that he will... but what does he have to prove? He's Rich, He's won a superbowl, He'll go down in history of one of the greatest QBs of all time.

Take a break dude.

Yeah, he should retire, but these idiots never do.  Not even Joe Montana was smart enough to pull that one.  Only Barry Sanders had it figured out, and he played on the shittiest team in the history of football.  These guys think they can keep playing at that elite level for an eternity.

Like, I 'get it', when you play at THAT level of competition, it's really hard to let go... but still, dudes, you've had a great run, now relax and enjoy something else.

Montana showed he could still play, though, leading the Chiefs to the AFC Championship game in the 1993 season. The Chiefs have not won a playoff game since that season :ye_gods:

Barry would have still been playing a number more years if he could have gotten away from the Lions. He's even admitted he only left because he didn't like playing for Detroit anymore (who could blame him at that time).

Manning was due to get $28M on Thursday (3/8/12), if he was not released. The Colts really had no other option and that's exactly why everyone just assumed he would not be a Colt in '12.

I don't know many who assumed he'd be a Colt, I just wanted the Colts to be stupid so the media shit would come to an end faster.

The media would just be talking about Luck learning from Manning, or what that Colts would get for the #1 pick, or how stupid they were for picking up the option. There will always be Manning.

Barry was and is still my favorite football player. Broke my heart when he retired knowing what might have been. As for Manning, I dunno how he'll fit any system since he IS the system. The man is too cerebral for most Off. Coordinators.

I kinda enjoy the speculation as to where he'll end up.  I think he goes to the 49ers.  He'll make Michael Crabtree into a pro bowler, and somehow even manage to get Vernon Davis to pull up his god damned pants already!

Alex Smith had a good year though. Peyton's an improvement almost anywhere he goes, but it's not like SF is hurting at the QB spot. Quick look at his stats shows he got sacked a ton last year, wouldn't SF be better served trying to improve that kind of thing first?

It would be like the Karmic Wheel of Life if Peyton joined the Niners. Peyton replaced Jim at the Colts and now Andrew who was coached by Jim is likely to replace Peyton and finally Peyton joins with Jim at the end of his career.

While I agree Alex had a good year, he had six or seven bad years before it.  He may turn out to be alright, but there is no compelling reason to be comfortable with Alex Smith as your QB.  

And anyway, any team that goes out an gets Peyton is going to be looking for some short term Super Bowl glory.  SF is in position for such a run.  Mostly, however, I picked San Fran because I am a Seattle fan, and nothing would hurt more.

Also, what Trippy said.  Football Karma is for realz.

Makes the most sense in Arizona.  Look what we did for Kurt Warner and every one was pretty sure he couldn't play anymore.   Think of what we could do with Manning. :awesome_for_real:

Except that their owner (Bidwell?) is such a cheapskate that it is hard to imagine him even making the attempt, especially one year after overspending on Kolb.  He must still be smarting from that one.

If it weren't for the fact that Shanahan won't give Manning the kind of control of playcalling he wants, the Redskins are the most likely to spend stupid money on a gamble as Daniel Snyder is about the worst at getting a bang for his buck when it comes to free agents.

I think someone at CBS offers him a big chunk of change to be their new booth analyst for their big games and he takes it. Phil Simms needs to be relegated to the minors, he is SO bad compared to Aikman and Collinsworth.

He ain't retiring. If he was going to, he already would have. No, he's going to play for someone. The speculation of who is fun to discuss.

San Fran is the one team I think he could join that is the closest to a Super Bowl. Even at 75%, he'd put that team over the top. It won't happen, though. Alex Smith showed he has what it takes to win even if he's not going to be the guy you trust completely.

Arizona? Not happening. They don't have the money and they'd have to release Kolb because no way they are paying marquee money for 2 QB's and Kolb isn't going to be a clipboard holder after being named the starter TWICE.

Seattle would be a good fit, though I doubt Carroll is that smart. Also, he'd get creamed. It'd look like Favre's last year in Minnesota.

Miami is actually a pretty good fit - especially if the Colts let Reggie Wayne go. Wayne went to the U of Miami, he and Peyton are in sync and having Wayne on the other side from Marshall would turn that team into a threat.

Washington - Not going to happen. There aren't enough playmakers, they have no real running game and it's the place old QB's go to die. Snyder will try to overpay but it won't be about the money with Manning.

NY Jets - I really don't think this is happening. In essence, they'll be saying Sanchez wasn't the right choice and 2-3 years down the line when Peyton's about to retire, then what? Draft another QB? I also don't think he'd get along with Rex Ryan and the showboating atmosphere there.

Minnesota - We've seen this story before. The Ponder era has begun. Draft some wideouts that don't suck and build around AP and CP.

Baltimore - An intriguing proposition. Flacco has probably reached a wall (like Sanchez) and won't get better without help. Would love to see Manning to Boldin connection, but like Sanchez, if you get him, you're pretty much calling the Flacco era to an end.

Houston - More intriguing than the Baltimore scenario. Someone suggested Manning could go there if they could trade Schaub. Schaub would get a lot of offers, probably as high as a 1st round pick, but are you ready to do that in Houston? Because again, 2-3 years down the line you have to start thinking about succession plans. Is Schaub's injury history scaring you enough to drop him? I think it's a long shot, but it would certainly make Houston a favorite to reach the Super Bowl. And Manning would get to stick it to Irsay.

Kansas City - Ending the Matt Cassel era is probably a good idea. I don't think they have enough weapons to tempt Manning, though.

Denver - Is John Elway willing to trounce on Tebow's feelings to take a chance on an aging injured Hall of Famer? He's likely not going to do it for a 1st round QB but could Manning tempt him? And would it be a good idea? Not a chance in hell. That team does not have enough weapons to be a contender even with Manning, especially not if you are building your offseason plans around the way Tebow plays.

Absolutely Not Happening:
Green Bay
New England
Pittsburgh
Oakland (paid too much for Carson Palmer)
Chicago  :awesome_for_real:
Indy  :awesome_for_real:
Jacksonville (He wants a contender - and they are not that)
Tennessee (Already spent on an aging injured vet QB - the Jake Locker era is about to begin)
Cleveland (Not a contender)
Carolina
Atlanta
Dallas (Though Romo getting replaced for Manning would be  :why_so_serious:)
St. Louis
Tampa Bay
NY Giants  :awesome_for_real:
Philadelphia (Though he'd make that team insanely good, $40 million in Vick dollars ain't going away)
New Orleans
Buffalo (Just paid Fitzpatrick and Manning wouldn't go there anyway)
Cincy
San Diego
Detroit

Now that I examine it, I really think it's Miami or bust for Manning.

Let's see:

Seattle, Miami, Arizona, and St. Louis led the league in giving up sacks, so those are out in my view. Nobody in their right mind would go there and hope to live after a neck injury.

My guess is Houston. Good line, great weapons, Schaub has been hurt and they can dump his contract without overpaying, playoff team already, AND he can give the big fuck you to the Colts when he plays them.

Besides, Schaub comes up for contract in 2013, and you can trade him for picks. Succession plan in 2013 when you get the next crop of young QBs? Hell yes.

Houston or bust!

I didn't realize Schaub's contract was up in 2013. That does change the optics a bit, though I still think Houston would rather keep the cheaper Schaub than Manning.

One or two years of Manning could put them in the Superbowl, however.  Schaub, in my opinion, isn't up to that task with the offense they have.

How big of a wrinkle does Matt Flynn put into the Manning speculation? I assumed he was going to end up in Miami for scheme familiarity.

What are you thinking?  I don't follow.

Some of these teams that were looking at Flynn have to be looking at Manning now, too. Who are they they prioritizing? Will Flynn not be signed until Manning is grabbed? I use Miami as an example because of the Packers' offensive coordinator, wouldn't Philibin be more comfortable with Flynn?

I would have to think that would be a no brainer.  I guess that Flynn has some potential.  He has done very well in his backup role, but Manning has won a superbowl.  I don't know how you can be a GM at that level and not worry at least about winning ASAP.

No chance he goes to the 49ers. I would go so far as to say the odds are very strongly in favor of Alex having a better year than Peyton this year.

First off, Manning WILL be the first free agent QB signed. If he isn't signed within 2 days after he's allowed to be signed, I'll be amazed. Flynn will probably go to whoever loses out on the Manning sweepstakes. Miami would have been my first thought for him before Manning, now it'll depend on Manning. I could see him landing in Cleveland, Washington or Seattle if Manning goes to Miami.

I don't think Manning will just go to the highest bidder.  It could take longer than you think, because he'll have to balance money with the chance to win.  He doesn't want to play for Cleveland.

WHY DO YOU LIKE TO HURT ME?!

:why_so_serious:

He said Flynn could end up in Cleveland if Manning goes to Mia, no way in hell Manning is going to Cleveland. Though who picks up Flynn will also alter depending on who's willing to trade the farm for the #2 pick to pick up Griffin.

I do think SF is more likely than people will believe though for a few reasons. The primary reason would be that it's a super bowl contender already that has a free ride to the playoffs being in the NFC west if they have any sort of consistency (which it seems like they will only be better this coming year). Additional reasons imo:
-a package deal with Wayne could be possible (and a great fit for SF to have a veteran WR leading their WR team, which would double as a mentor to someone like Crabtree). I don't think it will happen but I don't think it's impossible either.
-the NFC West, outside of SF, isn't know for good defense, meaning it would be a great place for him to return to while rebuilding himself.
-He's either playing in nice weather or in domes
-No competition against his brother or other legendary QBs or very good defenses like he would have if he were to sign with Mia, Was, Minn, Sea, Ari, Cle, Cin, Stl, etc. Not going up against good defenses and being in good weather most of the year would be a great fit for him to play while he's rebuilding after the surgeries

More thoughts, though the following is just me blabbering about places some may or may not agree. I'm spoilering just because it really is my incoherent thoughts without money really being a factor in them

Jacksonville is a rebuild project no matter who you bring in. No way in hell he's going to the Jags.

While I agree and admit it's almost guaranteed to not happen, it would be fun as hell if he did go there. They have the tools to beat Indy twice a year, a soft schedule with weak defenses to go against (most likely), favorable weather, a new owner shaking things up, lots of good points for Jac. IMO, it's more likely than some teams like WAS and Minn that some have been guessing he'll talk to.

Manning wants to pick team in a week (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7659947/peyton-manning-aims-pick-team-week-sources-say)

I suspect that it will take longer than this unless he's just totally unconcerned with money, which would surprise me. 

I think the numbers he gets from anywhere are going to be pretty similar for a guy that a) wants to win and b) already has lots of money.  Well, that's unless Dan Snyder offers one of his eye blink contracts and just completely overpays.

Manning would be a Grade A fool if he picked Washington.  Not only is it a graveyard for QBs, but he would be in a titanic struggle just to make the playoffs.  In fact, I honestly doubt he would make the playoffs.

Same goes for Miami, but the issues there are more just the competition he would have to face.  No playoff guarantees there...I would actually bet against him making the playoffs in year one.

West Coast is where he should be setting his sights.  San Fran would be a guaranteed playoff berth for him.  Seattle...not a guarantee, but still better than other options, and all the more likely because they desperately need a QB.  Oakland could work in theory, except for the sacrifice made for Carson Palmer, and the fact that I cannot imagine in a million years PM actually signing with that franchise.  Denver could work if they can reverse some of the retooling (and I think they could), and it wouldn't shock me to see Elway put Tebow back on the bench.  Hell, he is probably looking for a reason to do just that.  And I also think Denver would give him an almost guaranteed playoff berth in year one.  KC would be a mistake.  SD is off the table.  He'd be an idiot to go to either the Rams or Arizona.

So yeah, the smart thing to do would be San Fran, Seattle or Denver, in my opinion, under the hypothetical assumption that all three of those teams would be interested.  What he will actually end up doing is going to an East Coast team and failing miserably.

Or he will go to Houston.  If they are actually interested (which would actually surprise me a little), Houston might make the most sense for him.  The more I think about it, the better option that is than my three West Coasts teams above.
 

I think the Skins have no shot given Shanny has his son as OC and getting Manning means Jr. gets relegated to waterboy status. Not to mention, NFC east... I doubt he'd be up for being beaten by his little brother every year.  :why_so_serious:

I agree that the west coast is where he should go, but why would Ari be dumb at all? His only competition would be SF, there's an underrated defense, a decent run game, one of the best return men in the game, and Fitzgerald with room for Wayne if they want to bring him over as well. I'd say SF > Den > Ari > Sea > KC > Oak with STL and SD not even being in the picture. A new report came out today as well saying he'd prefer an AFC team over an NFC team.

I do like the article on PFT (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/07/caa-factor-looms-over-peytons-next-destination/) though regarding his agent and their clients possibly being an underrated factor in all of this. Basically, SF, Den, Buf, Jac, Minn, TB, STL and some others all are represented by the same agency that Manning is. I don't see that being a problem for any but SF or Den though since the rest either have QBs that aren't worth caring about or have in the case of STL would just keep their #2 pick and snag Griffin in the draft.

Elway just wants to win, so whomever gives the team the best chance to do that, he'll play. Well, influence that, because it's still Fox's call. Anyway, if the Broncos DO land Manning (and from what people have been saying, it looks like they want him), they'll trade Tebow.

That can be said about most of the teams on his "list".

Who would take Tebow in trade? He's not worth what the Broncos would probably want, and he's too big a fan favorite to just toss away for nothing. If they got Manning, they'd probably just keep Tebow unless someone turned their heads.

I just don't see Denver being a logical destination. They really don't have any of the kind of offensive weapons that Manning is going to want to play with. Think about Miami for a second - Brandon "Smack a Bitch" Marshall to throw to, Reggie Bush coming out of the backfield to catch passes and if they can sign Reggie Wayne, all of a sudden they are a bruising back and a slightly better O line from being a contender. They were playing really well at the end of the year with MATT FUCKING MOORE at QB.

I'm sure Dan Snyder WILL offer such obscene amounts of money it will make Goddell plotz. Manning would be fucking retarded to take it, especially since he really doesn't have to. There are so many more teams with better fits that will pay the already-filthy-rich Manning enough money to make it worth his while.

Den and Mia have both already reached out (some report said 12 teams already have). I still like Mia, but facing Brady and NYJ twice a year need to be taken into consideration as well which hurts Mia.

Also - what would stop the Broncos from signing Wayne as well? They have just as good of weapons with a weaker division. Decker, Thomas, possibly adding Wayne for main weapons and a decent run game can be tempting.

I'm not sure myself but I just don't think they can be ruled out that easily

Daniel Thomas was supposed to be the bruising back to complement Bush, though with the injuries he had in his rookie year the jury is still out on him.  The Fins still have Jake Long, so at least they have a solid left tackle.

As for who would take Tebow, I'd say he'd put asses in seats in Jacksonville.

I am not sure Shahid Khan WANTS to put asses in seats in Jacksonville. Right now, Jacksonville is almost a lock for being the team that gets to move to L.A. in 3 years. If they start filling the stadium every week, that is harder to pull off.

My main contention here is that it is more Arizona's ownership that is the problem.  Arizona has had one good year ever,  a couple of mediocre ones and a history of outright stinking.  Any success they have is a factor of good luck and good coaching, not because their ownership has any clue how to make a good football team.  Bidwell would just as likely sacrifice half his roster to find the money for Manning, he's a notorious cheapskate.  Not a place to go to win a Super Bowl, in my opinion.

(http://beardylollipop.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/major-league-lou-brown.jpg)

Even bad owners have won championships. The thing to look at is how are they right now, which is better than some people realize and would instantly be a contender with Manning (even more so with Wayne to pair up with Fitz). They have cap issues for signing Peyton, but I can't see him holding out for the kind of money he was making if his main goal is winning. That, and Bidwell is in Florida currently (where Manning and Wayne are), meaning even as a bad owner he sees that he'd be crazy to not at least make an attempt

Oh god, you got me good there.

The Rams Trade the #2 Pick to the Redskins (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7668243/source-washington-redskins-acquire-no-2-overall-pick-st-louis-rams)

So the Skins will get Robert Griffin III, and all they had to give up was 3 1st round picks (2012-2014) and their 2nd round pick this year. Holy fucking shit, this kid better be lights out. The article says they'll still be going after Manning but I don't see that being a good idea at all. The cap space he'd eat up they are going to need to sign free agents to upgrade like everywhere on that team. RG3 has got literally nothing to throw to.

Guess that means Manning ain't going to the Skins.

Good thing they franchised Fred Davis!   :awesome_for_real:

Having Manning for a year or three wouldn't be a bad thing at all for the Redskins.  It's not like they'll have high level draft picks to pay in the future.   :grin:

I would think it would be a great investment.  Manning may not be a great teacher (who knows, really), but being around that level of greatness can be a good example to the right person.  By all accounts RGIII is a great kid with a good work ethic, so maybe it will rub off on him.

Manning has been pretty clear on the point that he doesn't want to be in the same division as his brother, preferably not the same conference. So that rules out the Skins.

Miami/Denver/KC/Seattle look like the most likely places he'd end up.

edit: Manning met with John Elway and the Broncos yesterday. (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8277cfbc/article/peyton-manning-to-meet-with-broncos-on-friday-?module=HP11_cp)

If the coaching staff let's Manning run the offense the way he did in Indy, then Miami would be the best landing spot for him imo.  Especially if they pick up Wayne and Clark for him, who along with Marshall and Bush would make that offense suddenly pretty potent.  Plus Miami had the sixth best scoring defense in the league last year as well (iirc?) so Patriots and Jets or not, Manning/Wayne/Clark would make the Fins a pretty strong contender.

My biggest fear was the Dolphins would pull off some move like the Redskins did for RGIII.  Not that I think Griffin won't be good, but what the Redskins gave up to move up 4 spots is just crazy.

My bet is Manning goes to Denver and Miami picks up Flynn.

Elway fucking loathes Tebow, and Peyton is about the only person he could bring in that would not outright offend the colorado Jesus freaks that worship the ground that Tebow walks on. They will still be pissed but not like they would be if he brought in someone with a less squeaky clean image than Peyton.

Even losing three good players to drug suspensions for 4/6 games next year?

Well, we knew someone was going to take that pick, but honestly I don't see RG3 as being worth that much.   

Jags. He's a god there. I would be fine if they do keep him, but this could very well just be a chance to say "okay, we're moving on from the tebow experiment".


I think you're undervaluing the broncos players just a bit, and the Reggie Wayne point is kind of moot, as you can say the exact same thing about the Broncos. Wherever Manning goes, they'll make the Offense for him.

The only real advantage Miami has is that it's in Florida, which is a huge one for Manning.

I don't think I'm undervaluing the Broncos' offense. I don't think they have ANYBODY besides Tebow in that offense that would work as well outside of a Tebow offense. They'd be mediocre at best. Now their defense is pretty damn good and likely to get better. But that offense? No.

Given the "strategy" employed by the Broncos under Tebow, they had some lighter numbers, but they have a strong O-Line, McGahee had a great year, and Decker/Thomas did decent and Thomas showed some great potentia this year. Royal proved before that he can be good, but in that current system was not utilized, but he can be a great slot receiver. Of course, he's a free agent this year.

I think Thomas could have a 1200 yard season with Manning. McGahee is getting older, but probably has at least 1 or 2 seasons left in him.

They were far from the best, but they are not terrible, and could seriously do great with Manning, I feel.

If Denver can get Manning and sign one speedy outside receiver, they could be legit.  Reggie Wayne doesn't quite have the jets he used to, but I think he is on the market right?  Wouldn't be surprised to see him sign wherever Peyton does.

While Wayne isn't as fast as he was 10 years ago, Denarius Thomas is one of the fastest in the league. So they have a speedy outside receiver, and if they picked up Wayne they'd have a very solid WR group. Where they'd be lacking, imo, would be at TE, though they could very well have a hidden gem with all of their TE either being 6'4 or 6'5 at 250lbs. So they measure in well, I just don't know if they can compare with Clark as a receiving option.

Well, Clark was cut. I would LOVE to see the Broncos land Manning, Wayne and Clark. What the hell, throw in Saturday.

Per Adam Schefter (https://twitter.com/#!/AdamSchefter):

Cowboys lose $10 million in cap space, Redskins lose $36 million in space. Can split it over 2012 and 2013 any way they want. All that money goes to 28 other teams -- $1.6 million each -- except for Saints and Raiders, who don't get any but don't lose any.

They lost the cap space because they front-loaded deals during the uncapped year. Seems a bit harsh but I hate them both, so fuck them. $36 MILLION for the Skins though? OUCH. So much for a free-agent shopping spree to get RG3 some weapons.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Fucking Redskins and Cowboys.


HAHAHAHAHAHA

Thanks you for some extra cap space. kthx

Reason #1,467 why having your owner as GM is fucking retarded. You can't even really hope Jerry keels over dead as a fan because his fuckstick son is in charge of our scouting and would inherit the team.

We have no realistic hope of winning the division at this point.

Sonofabitch

On the bright side at least they will prob dump off Newmans useless ass. 

Coming from a Broncos fan, I can certainly understand how much Shannahan can really fuck up the cap.

Denver does not need Wayne.  Denarius with Manning throwing to him might even be a 1st round WR pick in fantasy.  The guy is big, fast and can move after the catch.  Wherever Tebow goes, I hope for his sake they have an O-line.

What self-respecting team that has a good O-line would want Tebow?  That's when you want a great pocket passer.

Not that you aren't right.  It's a bit of a catch 22 for him.  Maybe the will let him go to college again?

And by the way, fucking Seattle, in case you haven't noticed, you NEED A GODDAMNED QUARTERBACK.  Feel free to do something about that, stupid fuckers.  And no, not Tim Tebow.

It would be a stretch, a huge stretch to assume Denarius would be that good. I said I think he would get a 1200 yard season, but not a lot of people are going to grab someone who is essentially nameless int he first. You could pick him up easy in the 2nd or 3rd.

As for not needing him. Yeah, who wants TWO good receivers.

I can see Seattle being in play for Flynn. Hell, Leinart is available...  :why_so_serious:

Dolphins trade Brandon Marshall to Da Bears (http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/7682163/2012-nfl-free-agency-miami-dolphins-trade-brandon-marshall-chicago-bears-sources-say)

Welp, so much for Manning to Miami. I do not see that cast of also-rans being able to attract Peyton Manning, and signing a Reggie Wayne isn't going to do it. He's probably best as a #2 receiver these days.

The Bears however, got a significant upgrade and only gave up 2 3rd round picks (2012 and 2013). Of course, after the ransom they paid for Cutler, their draft pick cupboard might still be bare, and they still have to get SOMEBODY to block for Cutler. And resign Forte. And keep Brandon Marhsall from choking a bitch.

So much for Brandon Marshall's fantasy value.  I don't trust any WR on the Bears.

If the Fins commit to going all in on Manning that limits their ability to approach Flynn. I could easily see Manning going to Denver, Flynn going to someone like Seattle and Miami ending up getting shafted.

As a Bears fan, I'm pretty content with that trade.

Unless they also go for a Vincent Jackson.

You were going to put faith in Henney over Cutler? Or were you assuming Manning was going to the Phins?

They were back at full picks last year, actually.  The 3rd they used this year was the pick they got for Greg Olsen last year, so they still have 3 picks in the top 80.

Now that they aren't dumping a fortune on Vincent Jackson or Mario Williams, they can pay Forte, or they can look at Eric Winston at OT who got cut in Houston for some reason.

I just assume a Bear's quarterback doesn't know what a wide receiver is and/or WRs magically forget how to play when going to Chicago.

The Bears "passing game coordinator" is Jeremy Bates, who was the OC in Denver when Cutler/Marshall had back-to-back 100 catch seasons.

Not that that means a damn thing in 2012, but still.

He stopped in Seattle to run our offense into the ground after that, so gl.

Yeah, but he had Tavaris Jackson at QB, so he might have had an excuse.

If he was the OC, I'd be worried.  Technically, he's the QB coach.  I'm hoping Tice comes up a new "BM Ratio" for his passing game.

Reggie Wayne is apparently telling the world he wants to stay in Indy...we'll see.  Kinda hard to believe.

Vincent Jackson has signed with the Bucs.  I don't know what to think about that.  Way to make yourself irrelevant?

Bears got a good deal getting Marshall.  Honestly, personality issues notwithstanding, I can't think of a better option for them.  Suddenly makes Hester a little more dangerous as well.

The thing about Matt Flynn...I am not buying in.  I am aware of his six touchdown game.  I am also aware that it was only like the second game he's ever played, and we do not have nearly enough to judge him on.  There is every chance that he will not be successful whereever he ends up.  Just by leaving Green Bay, he instantly becomes a lesser player.

Edit:  And Garcon to the Redskins, apparently.  Garcon was obviously better for playing with Manning, so I don't know what to think about this move.  Kinda meh.

Flynn is good. He came in for an injured Rodgers on a Thursday night game in Dallas a couple years ago and almost won the game, he played for an injured Rodgers against the Patriots in 2010 and did not make major mistakes and barely lost, and he had the last game this year where he played as perfect a game as you can expect a QB to play.

He is more of a sure thing than ANY rookie QB as he has actual NFL experience against good teams.

I will agree that he is more of a sure than than any rookie QB.  Primarily because I think rookiee QBs are a total crapshoot. 

Still, take him out of the GB environment, away from the team and coaching staff...and I don't know.  I actually hope Seattle lands him, but I still don't think we have enough reason to believe he is top 16 NFL talent.

Nice pick up by the Bears with Marshall, I like it. Now if only they could pick up some new O-linemen.


The Skins will have an upgrade at QB and two new WR (Josh Morgan as well as Garcon), and a potentially good run game if they can stay healthy. So these WR moves will not get as much attention as they deserve, but it's a huge upgrade for the Skins. Garcon also did have his best year yet in 2011 - without Manning. Additionally, they're supposedly working on signing Eddie Royal, meaning next years Redskins could be a completely turned around team.



Supposedly it's the opposite as Manning didn't want to play with Marshall.

With Jackson off the market, Marshall fucked off to Chicago, Garcon in Washington, Colston back in New Orleans, the only marquee guys left for Miami to sign are Manningham (LOL) and Wayne? I do not see either of those guys making Miami an attractive target for Manning. Maybe Wayne, but again, I don't see him as a big #1 threat anymore. Of course, Manning can make anyone better than they appear but that's looking less likely to me now and Arizona more likely. Manning to Fitzgerald would be scary as fuck but they better get some blocking.

As for Jackson to Tampa, they just signed Carl Nicks (G) from the Saints and cornerback Eric Wright (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7684603/tampa-bay-buccaneers-add-carl-nicks-eric-wright-signing-vincent-jackson). I think if you give Freeman time to throw, he's good and Jackson can make that team better. But yeah, I think Jackson's fantasy value just went down.

Meachem goes to the Chargers, Finnegan to the Rams, Garcon to the Skins. Of those deals, I think Garcon was the best. Garcon is a deep threat - his biggest weakness is an more than occasional case of the dropsies.

Flynn is a LOT better than anybody else on the market or in the draft other than Manning, IMO. He's going to end up being the Matt Hasselbeck type, IMO. He came one minute away from beating the Patriots in 2010 with a Green Bay team that, while it won the Super Bowl that year, had not hit its stride. They still hadn't even qualified for the playoffs at that time, and their running game was almost nonexistant until Starks took off in the playoffs. The Pats defense in 2010 was better than it was last year, and keep in mind that his 6 TD game came against Detroit, who had one helluva pass rush. As long as he has SOMEBODY to throw to, he will be good. He's got poise, a decent arm and makes good decisions.

Well, that didn't take long.  (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/football/nfl/03/14/brandon.marshall.ap/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a6&eref=sihp)

  :facepalm:

Atlanta radio folks are losing their minds over the fact the Falcons aren't doing diddly-shit in FA, nor do they have any draft picks.

The Falcons seriously need to wave a shitton of money at Mario Williams.

And Brandon Marshall... oh what body part of a woman won't you punch?  :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

There is some thought that Marshall being jettisoned could increase Miami's chance of landing Manning, given that he hates dealing with shitheads.

It's sad... I felt so terrible for Marshall after Darrent Williams was shot... but the fucker has not done himself any favors. I was glad when the Broncos shipped him out.

Still, as much of a dickhead he is, especially to women (and the reason I really dislike him), the biggest WTF was still the McDonalds Wrapper/TV incident. That outdid Brian Griese's dog incident as the most klutzy things a Bronco has done.

Brandon Lloyd is visiting San Francisco today, wouldn't be my first choice but the WRs are dropping off the board quickly.

They already got Moss so now they are just looking for a 3rd wide receiver to split time with Crabtree and Moss when he feels like resting :awesome_for_real:

Assuming Morgan resigns I could be content with Crabtree/Moss/Lloyd/Morgan, although that's a lot of attitude at one position.

Just be glad you didn't end up with Marshall.

He's a Redskin.

Doh, oh well.

Moss is more than enough by himself. It'll be interesting to see how Harbaugh handles all these "personalities".

Did I miss Moss' near weekly beating of women?

I didn't say Moss was the worst.

Moss was always too stoned to do too much beating of anything or anybody.

i gotta say I'm pretty pleased so far with what the Bucs have done. Adding the 5th selection in the draft to the FA signings and hopefully they won't melt down and just flat our quit next year.

Titans interest in Manning is pretty surprising but good news.  Titans or Fins, I don't want him going anywhere else.  Peyton playing back in TN would be awesome!

They still need to improve that offensive line and could use a good third down back since Blount apparently has hands of stone, but otherwise they could have a pretty good offense.  I think Freeman's problems last year had a lot to do with receivers who couldn't get open, ever.  Jackson will be a nice big target and Mike Williams might bounce back a bit since he won't be the only receiver worth covering.  Bucs defense still needs a lot of work though, even with the signing of that corner.

Tennessee might be a good landing spot for Manning if Kenny Britt's knee is fully recovered, especially if they can also get Wayne to play the other side.  If not, Manning wouldn't have anyone to throw to there so he should probably look elsewhere.

Guess you missed the bit about Reggie Wayne staying in Indy, or is there another Wayne I am forgetting?

I thought that was just a rumor.  Has he actually signed?

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120314/SPORTS03/203140317/Colts-receivers-Reggie-Wayne-returns-Pierre-Garcon-gone?odyssey=nav|head

And Mario Williams goes to Buffalo (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7690355/buffalo-bills-close-deal-mario-williams-source-says).

6 years, $100 million with $50 million guaranteed. Welp, that certainly changes things. Buffalo really needed a defense, and this should certainly help them. But in that division, who knows? The impact of one player is probably a lot less than in other places. And this guy just came off a season-ending injury, though not a severe one. Luckily, the injury also didn't involve his legs or knees, which the turf in Buffalo might be very hard on. That whole division could be the new version of the old Black and Blue NFC Central.

Also, Sanchez just pissed himself.  :why_so_serious:

EDIT: Peyton Hillis goes to the Chiefs. The Cowboys signed Brodney Pool (Safety) from the Jets to improve what is a wretched defensive backfield.

Dammit. Was hoping the Hawks would land Williams, but when they resigned Red Bryant I guess that ship sailed.

Still can't get over the Brandon Marshall shit.  Was hoping we could make at least one run at a title before this shit happened!

Now, I guess, I get to know how Steelers fans feel every time they cheer for their team.  Technically, this was already true, but at least he married the woman he scrapped with (and who stabbed him back for it?  crazy kids.)!

what.

I think what he is saying is that it is okay to clobber the woman if you are married to her.  Because then she's your property and stuff. 

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33271127/ccave.jpg)

Wait a god damn minute... this isn't Politics.  :oh_i_see:

Apparently, one of his arrests/dustups with the law involved his then girlfriend, now wife, stabbing the motherfucker.

Manning has ruled out Miami; so it's Denver or Tennessee.

I have a god damned ulcer waiting on this Manning stuff.

Why?  He's gonna tank once his neck gives out again. :awesome_for_real:

According to Chris Mortenson, there's also a clandestine team involved.

Have a link? Everything I've seen at this point is Denver vs Tennessee, including Mortenson's chatter.

Hey, you asssholes, Arizona still gets mentioned.  Stop pretending we don't exist.  :awesome_for_real:

Apparently Miami is just TRYING to fuck itself over in the QB madness.

Report: Dolphins make low-ball offer to Matt Flynn (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/16/report-dolphins-make-low-ball-offer-to-matt-flynn/)


I try to forget Arizona exists at any possible chance.

EDIT 1: Denver flew out to talk to Manning and watch him throw. Reportedly offering $60M over 5 years, $30M gauranteed. Same deal abouts as Tennessee's.

EDIT 2: Here's that mysterious third team. Wow.

Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

As a Rutgers Alumni, Schiano sucks.  Great recruiter, terrible game-day coach.

Alex Smith hasn't actually put pen to paper has he?

Nope.

SF would be a great fit. Much better than the shitpile in Tennessee.

Sorry, Cards out of the running.

UGGGGGGGGG. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.  Kolb is so bad.

As one of the few Bulls fans here, I can't stand Schiano either.  I'm almost hoping the team goes winless this year to get him out as fast as possible.

Edit: I think Kolb and Cassel is the reason for Miami's 'lowball' offer to Flynn.

They think Seattle likes Tavaris Jackson that much?

Peyton to the Titans I say. 

• Titans just signed Steve Hutchinson (G) to bolster their O-Line and he is friends with Peyton.
  
• Titans have one of the best RB's in Chris Johnson (who got his 'fuck you' money last season and skated admittedly).
  
• Titans have an above average offense with Washington (1k+ receiver), Hawkins (solid 4th year receiver), and Stevens (outstanding TE blocker.)
• Tennesse loves Peyton way more than they love even the QB who got us the National Championship in '98, Tee Martin. Would generate a lot of excitement for a state that only sees Big Orange (UT college football).
  
• Bud Adams has extended his unnatural life on the blood of puppies and the hope of winning a Super Bowl; Peyton is his last chance.
  I expect a "Shut up and take my money!" offer.

He has to play against Eli this year if he signs with the Niners, too.

Nah, I was joking.  I'm in denial, since I really don't like rooting for scumbags.

Doubtful that the Bears can pay for Wimbley, but it would be great if they could get a pass rusher before the draft.  They could go into it without needing a savior.

I still maintain Manning's best chance to win a Super Bowl this year is the 49ers. God, that team would be just nut-crushingly difficult to beat if he's even remotely close to what he was before. The Cardinals are goddamn idiots not to sell Kevin Kolb's blood to pay for Manning. Good luck with the guy who couldn't supplant a dog killer.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/18/flynn-picks-the-seahawks/related/

And the maniacal laughter shall commence... :awesome_for_real:

Man you know you are a terrible franchise when you're getting outgunned by the Seachickens.

I think I said as much a couple pages ago, and still agree with this.  They also just added Mario Manningham, so that is another offensive weapon.  Really, if Peyton is in shape, they would be absolute monsters.

And Flynn to the Seahawks.  Yay?  God, I hope he pans out.

It is worth mentioning that Alex Smith is talking to the Dolphins.  He might be feeling a little bit spurned, and Miami needs to do something.  If he signs with Miami and then Peyton ends up NOT signing with San Fran...then there is a reasonably good chance we could all see a pretty significant regression for the Niners next season.  The potential pendulum swing here is actually quite vast.  They have had really good defense and running games before.  The biggest changes last year were in the coaching staff and the QB play.  What would happen if the QB play disappears again?  Back to 7-9, suckas.

How Miami went from having all these potentials to virtually nothing in the matter of a month is staggering, though I'd suspect mostly media created. But still... astounding. And the 49ers... sheesh. At least Miami has a starting QB, no matter how mediocre Moore is. I think Manning goes to Tenn. If that is the case, Hasselbeck should be available.

And good to see the Browns are yet again dormant. I so enjoy these 5-11 seasons...  :oh_i_see:

5-11?  Pretty optimistic...

You might be right about him going to Tennessee, but I think it would be a damn mistake on his part.  I mean, that is a weak division, but he would still be fighting against Houston for the division.  If he went to the Niners though?  Pretty much guaranteed to make the playoffs, and a team that is instantly MUCH better than the team that went 13-3 the year before.  Seems like a no brainer to me, but it really depends on what his true motivations are.  At the end of the day, it wouldn't surprise me at all for even a good guy like Peyton Manning to go after the money.  They all fucking seem to.

You say that like it makes no sense. He has his Hall of Fame career.  If you don't go for the money now, then when? 

He's already set for life; he needs a salary that's not offensive at a team that can give him his second ring. I suspect the ring matters more than the money to him at this point.

Yeah, I would like to think so.  I'd like to think that is how I would act.

But it all to often ends up coming down to the money.

This. You're thinking with a non-rich brain, no rich person is ever set for life.

Yep, exactly that.

Given all this PM crap, both my Broncos and Niners are going to be in a huge lurch if they lose out on Manning. Right now, the Broncos have 1 QB on their roster, Tebow, and there's talk that he's going to demand a trade no matter how this Manning thing pans out. Now with Smith talking to teams, it looks like the Niners could easily end up in that same boat. There's a good chance either Broncos or Niners starting QB could be Matt Hasselbeck.

Tebow demanding a trade? I would LOVE to see that shit, because the market for him is exactly fuckall. MAYBE Jacksonville goes in because their owner loves him, but really? The Broncos would be lucky to get a 3rd rounder for him. And really, leaving the Broncos would bring a startling quick end to his career as a starting QB.

Flynn signs with the Seahawks? Congrats on getting a real goddamn QB for a change. Who knows, he might have been a product of being a championship caliber team, or he might just be Hasselbeck 2.0. But he'll be a goddamn huge improvement over Tavaris Jackson. Seattle has a running game, some nice young wideouts. They probably need an O line, but in that division, I could easily see Flynn getting them in contention.

Oh Dolphins. Is there anything you can't fuck up? First you trade Brandon Marshall, then you lose out on Peyton Manning AND Matt Flynn and now you're courting Alex Smith? This is your fallback plan? I've been a cheerleader for Smith in the past, but I do not think he can go into a situation like Miami has and be good enough to push that franchise into the playoffs, especially without a #1 wideout or a bruiser back like Gore. Matt Moore may well be the best QB they can get. Oh and they signed David Garrard, so at least they'll have some playoff experience. They have failed to get anybody this offseason, and traded away their best player. Philbin is not a miracle worker, and I feel bad for him, because he's going to be terrible with this group of players.

Even if they don't sign Manning, I don't see the Niners regressing that bad. Sure, they might only win 10-11 games, but in that division, their biggest challenger is likely to be Seattle. And it isn't like Smith has been known to be a big-time QB. His biggest positive last year was cutting down on the number of INT's. He won them a few games, but I don't think it was anything that required a great quarterback, just not a bad one.

I think you nailed that.

Broncos land Manning!

And as expected, Tebow to be dealt.

And of course, I just had to:

Confirmed (https://twitter.com/#!/nfl/status/181772552207745024); so now we just have to see where all the pieces land.

Well fuck. I really wanted to see him in San Fran.

Buh-bye Tebow time. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

I am hoping the Numerology Nuts get a hold of the Manning/Broncos thing. Peyton being #18 (6x3 or 666). I will love all of this that much more.

In better news, Demaryius Thomas just skyrocketed on my fantasy meter.

I'd take Tebow right now on the Cowboys as a backup for Romo.

I doubt he wants to be a backup though; if he was content to be a backup then there'd be no shortage of great teams eager to have him. As a starter though...

I don't know if he has that choice. He may have to be a backup, unless Miami or Jax takes him.

He won't, because he's going to be traded.

If they find a dancing partner. I don't think the market looks that good for him now, and I think he might be just straight up cut when push comes to shove.

The Niners would take him :awesome_for_real: He could be the second coming of Steve Young :grin:

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/131/399/fry.PNG?1307468855)

:why_so_serious:

Jerry might take him for one of our 5th rounders we never use.

 :awesome_for_real:

(http://i.imgur.com/TgUqA.jpg)

</reddit>

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Peyton!

We would have made you a GOD here in TN!  Now you're just a stupid donkey. Oh who am I kidding, I'll still root for him to win another Super Bowl.

Meanwhile, Eli smiles as he realizes that if he punches one more hole in his sub club card he gets a free one.

Even leaving aside the fact he did take a terrible Denver team and somehow get them not only into the playoffs, but to the AFC Championship game?  Tebow will dramatically increase the profile of any (shitty) team he goes to, increase viewership, and move merchandise....  at least until he's proven to be a bust.  He should be a steal for someone so they can flog Tebow-mania in the offseason to promote the brand, at the very least, as long as he isn't pricing himself too high.

When you consider how many mediocre or bad QBs get starting jobs?  I would be amazed if he wasn't sewn up pretty quickly.

Problem with Tebow as a backup is that he doesn't strike me as a great system QB.  Backups are usually good as backups because they can slide in and do a respectable job.  Tebow doesn't strike me as that kind of guy, he did well in Denver last year because they overhauled the offense to fit him.

The problem with bringing Tebow in as a backup is the fans. They will be SCREAMING for him to start the first time the starting QB throws an INT. It's the same damn reason he started over Brady Quinn in Denver even though Quinn was #2 on the depth chart - the fans were howling for him to start in training camp. No coach is going to want to put his starting QB through that (and himself as well in the press conferences he'll have to deal with) and if it's a young QB to boot (like Gabbert in Jacksonville), how damaging is that going to be to your confidence? Not to mention if you really want to make sure Tebow is usable, you really have to build a team around his skillset. He's such a unique player, you aren't going to do that if he's a backup, and as a backup, he'll be a completely different set of offensive plays to your starter. You don't bring him in as a backup, especially not if the reason you want him is to sell tickets.

The fans in Jacksonville probably would pay to see him, but LA couldn't give two shits about Tebow and I still think that the Jaguars are betting on being in LA for the 2015 season.

As a Dallas fan, I fail to see the problem here. I hate my starter with the fire of a 1,000 suns.

Denver got crushed by the Patriots in a Divisional playoff game.

Given that most teams know he'll probably be straight up CUT, there's no reason to sell the farm to get him. Plus, the tebow factor started to have diminishing returns towards the end of last season. It makes the team completely one dimensional. Given a full off-season to work out, I think he would get better, but the Tebow Offense would not work as well this next season as it did this one. And I think most teams know that. Also, the defense had a LOT to do with the success in those games. During the big stretch of wins, the Defense kept the opposing team to low enough points that last minute heroics would push the Broncos up over. It was definitely not "all tebow".

Pats recruit him and retrain him as a Tight End. Calling it now.

Belicheat worships Satan, so I'm thinking no.

McDaniel's crush on Tebow may overwhelm Hobochek's satanism.

Why not just keep Tebow and put him in for the 4th quarter every game?

In a perfect world where tebowners and christians aren't crazy, that would be great. But, the Broncos are just going to want to move on from the circus. Imagine the craziness if Manning has one bad DOWN, let along bad quarter/game.

It's best to just move on and regain control over your own team.

No he needs 3 quarters of sucking to warm up to the point where he can play decently for a quarter.

Assuming this wasn't a troll post, I'll take a hurt Peyton Manning over Tebow in the 4th quarter of a game any day.

Tebow needs a bullpen.

Or a fluffer.  :why_so_serious:

Jesus is his fluffer.

Wait.... no, that's about right.

I thought Tebow was a fluffer, of a sort.   :grin:

If Alex Smith actually goes to the Dolphins, I will be forced to conclude he hates winning, and was completely depressed last season. He wants to get back into his comfort zone.

Tebow should go to Jacksonville.  I mean, Blaine Gabbert really, really stinks.  It is also impossible to be a successful NFL QB with a name like Blaine Gabbert.  Seriously, though, Tebow would put people in the seats down there in the short term...though who knows if the new owner even cares about that at this point.

I don't think it's fair to say Denver was "terrible." They had the #1 rushing offense in the league and an average-ish defense.  I also don't think it's fair to say that the guy with a 45% completion percentage, 72.9 passer rating, and the absolute lowest pass yards per game of any of the 34 QBs listed on nfl.com's QB list http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/passingYardsPerGame carried the Broncos to the playoffs.    And they didn't go to the AFC Championship game; they lost 45-10 to the Pats in the second round.  Tebow had a statistically impressive first round win vs the Steelers, who had the league's #1 defense during the regular season.  They were, however, missing 4 out of 11 defensive starters for most of the game and totally sold out against the run almost every play.  Speaking of the Steelers, note that Kordell Stewart actually did "lead" a team to two AFC title games.

 
This is 100% true.  He could save the Jaguars, for example.  

How could he resist an opportunity to break the Nazarine? 

It'll be interesting to see where the money falls, but so far no mention of guaranteed money in the reports of the final price tag of 5 years, $96M for Manning.

I think Manning just wants to play and win a Superbowl.

2012: 18M
2013-2014: 40M w/waver on neck
2015: 19M
2016: 19M

And yeah, apparently no guaranteed money. Allows broncos to cut him after 1 year if he's not healthy, or renegotiate.

That's really a smart contract for both sides. Manning doesn't NEED the money and it's a good way to prove to the fans that he came to give them a Super Bowl, not fleece the franchise.

Okay, so there is gauranteed money.... the $18 for the first year. Which is still a fantastic freaking deal for both sides.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20213659/peyton-mannings-deal-broncos-5-years-96-million

Hey man, you got Kyle Orton backing up Romo. You're covered.  :awesome_for_real:

I can't think of a team I'd wish Tebow on more than the Cowboys, I say they go for it.

Tebow to the Raiders. COME ON!

If Tebow ended up chasing Orton around the league...


I LOVE YOU SO MUCH RIGHT NOW.

He needs to commit a crime first, you silly.

He stole the minds of many fans... does that count?

Tebow should back up Vick.

No wait... think about it. Tebow in Black and Silver and Davis returns from the dead. Or, see how the Raider nation consumes god's chosen gridiron champion. This shit writes itself people... MAKE THIS HAPPEN!  :why_so_serious:

So much ugly in one picture.

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/111434/ugly.jpg)

Man, it is amazing how much I still want to punch Elway in the face just for being Elway. I should be ashamed of myself.

PS: Orange is a hideous primary team color and no one will ever convince me otherwise.

Elway is in that photo? I thought that was a horse.

Well Elway's mouth goes rather well with Peyton's forehead, spatially.

Nice.

Yes, those carzy NFL fans.  Go fuck yourself, drgbrghrv412.


I am fully onboard with both of these statements.

Alex Smith resigns with the Niners (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7715336/2012-nfl-free-agency-san-francisco-49ers-alex-smith-agree-new-contract-sources-say), 3-year deal, $8 million a year, $16.5 million guaranteed.

Welp, it's official. Miami may be the saddest franchise in the entire NFL. The Colts will get Luck, the Skins get RG3, the Seahawks get Flynn, and even Alex Smith turns you down. Oh and your best offensive player left is the fragile Reggie Bush. What is it about Miami that just turned all these guys away? I mean, at least in Cleveland you know there's nobody coming to rescue you, but Miami had glimmers of hope last year. I don't see any positives out of what they've done so far and a whole bunch of negatives. Moore may have done well last year, but how's he going to do with no #1 wideout (or even a legit #2)?

Weird trade - Demeco Ryans to the Eagles from the Texans for draft picks (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7715442/philadelphia-eagles-acquire-demeco-ryans-houston-texans). Not sure I get this one. The Eagles get a solid linebacker, though with some injury history, and the Texans get an extra 4th round pick and they move up 12 places in the third round. For a team that had such a good defense last year, it seems strange to trade away your captain after losing your big-name pass rusher in free agency. I guess they decided to go younger on the defense? Just seems a weird trade.

Miamuh has been pretty much a turd since Marino retired, and it was a borderline turd through much of his career. 

Oh snap, here it comes.

Sean Payton suspended one year. Mickey Loomis 8 game and $500,000 fine. Saints fined $500,000 and a second round pick in 2012 and 2013.

Additionally, Gregg Williams suspended indefinitely.

EDIT: Tebow to the JETS for a 4th. _JETS_. Lawl.

Wow. Can he be worse than the Sanchize? Nope.

 :awesome_for_real:

So, odds on Brees demanding a trade now to get away from this madness?

OH MY GOD.

A FOURTH FUCKING ROUND PICK FOR TEBOW? Jesus, how little fucking faith in Sancheese do you have to have to trade that high a pick for Tebow? With a running game that was terrible last year and a QB whose biggest problem is accuracy, and you trade for a QB with a career accuracy rating of 47%????? Stunning. Absolutely gobsmacked. There is no way this was a good idea. Sanchez's already fragile psyche in a locker room fragmented as fuck with no confidence in their QB and they bring in a guy that the Jesus freaks will be howling to start the minute Sanchez throws an INT? Could this possibly be the dumbest fucking trade EVER? I'm not sure which team will suck worse, Miami or the Jets.

The Payton suspension is fucking HUGE. Problems with Brees' contract, a GM and coach suspended, and who is going to coach? The NFC South is up for grabs this year, IMO. I assume the O Coordinator for the Saints would take over for the year because how you going to hire someone from outside the organization for only a year?

My city of Atlanta is literally dancing in the hallways over the Saints taking it up the pooper on this bountygate.

No first round picks? That's weak.

They ought to be. They've done fuckall in free agency and haven't looked to improve themselves. If Carolina can get any sort of defense this year, it could be a 3 or 4 team race.

Tebow in NYC. That might be enough to get me to watch that Rumspringa. So much for him wanting to be back in the South / Florida via trade. You could not be any farther from that type of culture if you moved to Europe.

I seriously can't fathom why the Jets went this way... unless they make Timmy into an H-back.  :uhrr:

I have no idea what the Jets were thinking.  Lets back up our shitty QB with an even shittier one that is going be bringing even more of a media circus to a team that desperately needs to shut the fuck up and lose the drama, not add to it.  My god, the Jets implosion this year is going to be absurd.

A friend in Jersey texted me the following: "Omg I need to move."

This is the most exciting off-season in a LONG time.

Holy shit.  Sean Payton suspended for a year (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7718136/sean-payton-new-orleans-saints-banned-one-year-bounties).   :ye_gods:

That's crazy.  

Tebow to the Jets is a major  :uhrr: 

I can't figure out their angle here.  He isn't a good QB, their team isn't in great need of a utility player if they want to play him in that role.   I guess Sporano is coming in and wants to run the wild cat? 

I would've actually been interested to see him go to New England or something, they actually have a track record of using players like this effectively.

Plus McDaniels wants to make out with him.

He was last year.

Maybe he can be traded to the Dolphins!  :why_so_serious:

Seriously, the Fins started their downward slide under Wayne Huizenga by wrecking the front office and Stephen Ross is even worse.  Right now Miami probably has the worst front office in the league and Ross is more interested in selling bits of the team to celebrities than fielding a competitive product.

Tebow to the Jets still just floors me. The fucking media circus that surrounds that team just got amped up to OVER 9000!!!!!!!

The Jets are the Kardashians of the NFL.

Bye Timmy, thanks for the memories.  You could hear Elway smile from a coast away.

This is the real story I think.  Denver just washed its hands of a year (at least) of controversy over something that shouldn't even be one to begin with.  I think they actually could have gotten more than they did for him, but just getting him out the door for anything was worth it.

If they could have, they would have.



You could also see it from a coast away.

I'm pretty sure that was just the sun glinting off his horse teeth.

Suspending a superbowl winning coach for a year is absolutely crazy.  That is a death sentence, I would think.  The Saints have no choice but to fire the guy, I would think. 

Sanchize had a 78 QB rating and misssed the playoffs. Tebow had a 73 rating and got to the second round. I mean if we're splitting hairs, I'm taking the guy who has the intangibles when I have to pick QBs who can't muster an 80 rating over a whole season. Tavaris Jackson and Ryan Fitzpatrick were technically better than both of them, and I wouldn't put either on my NFL team.

Crazy, no.  The league had to come down hard and I applaud the move even if it is out of complete panic.  Bounties cannot exist.

Sanchez's entire team hates him.  That has to count for something.

I agree with the move.  I'm just surprised they did it.  I'm flat out shocked, personally, that the NFL had the nads to bring down the hammer.

Being so one-dimensional that teams can stack the box and send three pass rushers with minimal deep field coverage and watch Timmy run for his life and eventually go down with the ball is an intangible?

I have no idea why, but SOMEONE hasn't posted this here yet.

http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2012/03/a-savior-comes-to-new-york.html


That may be the finest prose in modern literature.

"If this trade dies, does it get resurrected in 3 days?" :thumbs_up:

I'm crying laughing from that shit.  :awesome_for_real:

So, apparently there was language of repayment to the Broncos in the ballpark of $5M due to "bonus advancements" in the contract. Jets agree to the contract, but then read the contract.

I love you Jets. You so crazy.

So now, Rams/Jaguars in the mix to steal the deal because Jets legal department is a joke (much like the team).

More news on this trade snag (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/7718133/tim-tebow-trade-hits-snag-contract-language-source-says)

According to that, the trade isn't just a 4th round pick in 2012, but a 6th rounder as well. THE FUCK????? Two draft picks this year for a guy who shouldn't be your starter and might only be a change of pace/wildcat QB? And you didn't read the fucking contract? Please God, let this trade go through so the comedy gold doesn't stop.

Can't figure out why the Rams want in on him, but at least it isn't as crazy as the Jets getting him.

The trade is Tebow + Broncos 2012 7th for Jets 2012 4th + 6th + $5M in cash.

That's still a shitty trade.  :awesome_for_real:

Yeah, sounding like the trade won't be happening now.

God, this shit is too much!  Too much!  Tebow just has to go to NY, I can't imagine the media explosion.  Stupid trade though.

Good on Roger to drop the hammer.  That bounty shit is disgusting.  I lost a lot of respect for Payton for this.  Only the refs should be allowed to illegally affect the outcome of games!  :awesome_for_real:

So even in the off season we have a Tebow incompletion.  :grin:

Apparently NFL Network/Warren Sapp may have outted the Saints whistleblower. I say may have because the person is denying it, but obviously a dick move in either case.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/21/nfl-outs-suspected-saints-whistleblower-on-its-own-network/

Like hell it isn't Sapp's fault, article writer.

I hope Sapp doesn't need his paycheck.  This looks really bad for the NFL to out the whistleblower on their own network.  Someone's going to take an arrow to the knee.

Agreed.

With the crazy amount of documents the NFL has about this, I'd be shocked (ha) if it was one person.

Something like 10 hours later, Tebow to the Jets.

There was talk that the Broncos may have allowed Tebow to choose where he went. If that is true, nice move on their part.

There are more heathen baby killers in NY/NJ for him to proselytize to than in Florida!

I was more thinking there's more chances for him to emulate Jesus with getting crucified by the NY media.

The thing about that is that the NY Post is also relentlessly conservative. So it will be pretty hard for them to decide wtf to do about him, I imagine.

No it won't, they will put exactly the headline they think will sell the most copies, and it can change day to day for all they care.

The Post will occassionally acknowledge the Jets exist, but it prefers to call for whoever is the current head coach for the Giants to get fired.

Okay, that was fucking hysterical.

The post is relentlessly Tea Party/Wall-street conservative though isn't it? Rabid bible thumping anti-abortion ad running southern conservative is surely in the area they feel is safe to mock.

The Post, like most Fox outlets, is for what sells the most. It occasionally lets a political bent into that, but don't for a minute think the Post won't run whatever salacious headline it can dream up to sell more papers, whether Tebow is an avowed social conservative or not.

I cannot wait for this training camp to begin. It's going to be fucking hilarious watching Sanchez's confidence shrivel as Rex Ryan is forced to start one of the few QB's who could legitimately be called worse than Sanchez. If the Jets don't make the playoffs (and I see no reason at the moment that they should), this team is going to fucking implode spectacularly. Santonio Holmes is likely to shoot somebody, maybe even on the field during a game.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tim-tebow-ny-post-ny-daily-news-2012-3

lol @ no ring circus


I have my issues with The Post but its headlines almost always amuse the fuck out of me. It's such a stupid rag. <3

Bears picked up Michael Bush for dirt cheap....like place kicker levels of cheap $14mil over 4 years. So Forte and Bush, both really good backs when healthy. So now, the Bears can be a strong offense when they're A) Healthy and B) their WRs are not in trouble with the law

Also, Andre Caldwell's fantasy stock just jumped as he signed with the Broncos. So now the Broncos have Denarius Thomas and Andre Caldwell - both have sub 4.4 40yd times along with Eric Decker. Now they just need a TE, I wonder if they'll try to pick up a TE in the draft (I believe Colby Teener was rated as the top TE).

Edit: Oh damn, I just saw Teener's pro-day results, 6'6 ~250lbs running at 4.4-4.5 40yd dash with a 37" vertical. He's faster and lighter than Gronkowski and almost equal to Jimmy Graham (Teener's lighter, Graham jumps about 1" higher, equal 40yd dash). I wonder if he'll now get taken higher than he was originally projected with a pro-day like this.

Should've kept Tebow and made him the TE :awesome_for_real:

That the Bears signed Michael Bush and still haven't given Forte an extension is just goddamn criminal. He's pissed off about it and he should be. Bush gets $7 million in guaranteed money, which is just slightly below Forte's entire 2012 salary under the franchise tag. You know, Bears, if you don't want him, just say so. I'd be happy as fuck to have him on the Packers.

Tebow probably would have been alright for it if he would stop praying so his hands can be used to catch the damn ball  :why_so_serious:


And yeah, I'm not too happy for Forte since he should have had his contract already. He's already speaking out about it as he should be.

I would not mind seeing Frote on the Broncos.  :oh_i_see:

Also, both Clark and Tamme will be visiting the Broncos, and could be a very good solution at TE, givne the Manningness of the team now. INDY WEST

And then minutes later... "Texans free agent tight end Joel Dreessen will choose between Broncos and Texans Friday morning." -- I would not be mad with this.

So, a day after the Bears signed Michael Bush, Marion Barber retires.

Broncos add Joel Dressen, Jacob Tamme and Tracy Porter (whom I really hope is not included in bounty gate).

But.. Saturday goes to the Packers made me sad. :(

Saturday to the Packers is all kinds of :awesome_for_real:

Woah. Packers picked up a good I lineman in free agency? That is the opposite of what usually happens. Usually all their good ones leave.

He's the first free agent of ANY kind they've signed in like 3 years. At least from outside their own team.

And the NFL Network misses the god damn point....



EDIT: "Jets trade Drew Stanton to the Colts." -- The circle is complete!

[/quote]

 :oh_i_see:

Paraphrasing a quote from Cowherd this morning on the radio:

Rules changes:

- Overtime changed to match new Playoff format.  Both teams get a turn unless first team scores a touchdown.
- Turnovers join touchdowns as Automatic reviews.  Two extra tv time outs + 15 minutes per game.  Yay.

Argh, like they didn't have enough commercials already. I guess this just means more watching the game in as-live with the gamepass package...

I actually support the turnovers rule, but I think that it is poorly defined if it works this way.  If only turnovers that actually happen are reviewed that only solves part of the problem.  In much the same way the touchdown rule doesn't help the cases in which the guy was ruled out of bounds, this won't help things like an interception being ruled on the field an incomplete pass.

I know that coaches can still use their challenges in those situations, and that the rule means that they won't have to "waste" challenges in other situations which are now covered by the automatic rule, but I'd prefer if they worded it in such a way that covered all the scenarios.   Then again, I'm in support of them just going full on for what college football does and just having an off the field official that reviews every play as they are happening and buzzes down if he feels anything needs another look.  I've never felt like a college game was unduly delayed because of this, and it removes all the shenanigans.

Yeah, I'm not happy about this. Fuck me, I support instant replay, but there are really way too many delays in the game because of it. I like the way rubgy does it. One official, off the field, is asked to review a play by the ref if it's something he didn't see clearly. And usually, it's only scoring plays. I think the gamesmanship involved with the current challenge system really kills the game flow.

Why don't we just run the game on TV at 15 minutes behind the live game and review the whole damned thing?  I hate instant replay.

Yes, I love competitions of world class athletes being decided by the faulty eye sight of old men, who are likely in such a terrible position that their eye sight is the least of their issues.

I wouldn't mind all the commercials during NFL games if it wasn't the SAME GODDAM COMMERCIALS ALL THE FUCKING TIME.

Here's the John guy shilling bad pizza.
Here's the phone commerical with the flying footballs.
Here's the stupid Here-we-go campaign for beer.
Here's the commercial with a shitty truck talking about awards we never see.
Here's the credit card trying to pretend they aren't fucking you in the ass.
Here's the ad about shipping logistics
Here's the sportdrink that makes you awesome at sports
Here's the cola that won't make you fat

Rinse, repeat, over and over and over and over 15 more times a game.

Looks like success, you remember them all!

Not a fan of the replay decision to keep the final decision up to the head ref, though I do like adding turnovers like scoring plays (though as Mala stated earlier it is an incomplete rule that should be expanded) and am still unsure why the horse-collar rule wasn't changed on QB.


In other news, Brandon Jacobs is a 49er now. that is a hell of a 1-2 punch for a running game adding to a couple of WRs and a TE that can even make Smith look good. The 49ers are looking scarier by the minute even without winning the Manning sweepstakes.

You forgot about boner pills.

To be fair, the Niners didn't really need Manning. He would have just been a significant upgrade to an already powerful team. I'm not sure Jacobs has a whole lot left in the tank as a starter, but 1) not playing on turf and 2) being a relief back for Frank Gore are both things that will significantly raise his usefulness.

Yeah, but the funny thing is I don't use any of those products. I drink Coke, don't drink beer anymore, use Sprint, drive a Lexus, I don't ship things, I drink Powerade, and I prefer local pizza.

Actually I do use VISA for debit cards. That's the only one.

While I agere that they don't necessarily need Manning, they'd be even more so of a Bowl contender if he's playing well since Smith is really the weak link for their offense at this point (at least on days Moss feels like playing).

As for Jacobs, it really is more about upgrading their backfield package regardless of what down it is. If I'm a defense, and I already had to plan on Davis, Moss, Manningham, Crabtree, and Gore - then you add in Jacobs it's just another headache to practice for.

You made anyone that reads your post think about Papa John's. I'd say that's more successful than if you picked up a phone and ordered a pizza yourself.

EDIT:Grammar are hard.

I'm secretly a papa johns mole.

Jesus Christ the Niners are loaded for this season!  Hope their Dream Team doesn't wind up like Philly's.  :awesome_for_real:

Also, I hate the extra commercial time.  Knock it off.

NFL games will now take a minimum of four hours.

I like Papa John's. :eat:

The games were going to take longer regardless with the new overtime rules.   

It is not clear to me is the turnover review rules only mean that a turnover might get reversed or whether an action on the field not ruled a turnover can be ruled a turnover in fact.  The second is more problematic than the first.  Most turnovers are pretty clear cut.

Most fumbles are not clear cut in real time.

The rule is the same as with touchdowns that only rulings that are called a touchdown (or in this case, a turnover) can be reversed. So the call on the field must be that the play resulted in a turnover for the booth review to come into effect.

Ok, but most fumbles will be mechanically un-reviewable since they involve a ground scrum invisible to most camera angles.  I see this mostly playing out on strange interception/incomplete pass situations, but even then if the ball doesn't hit the ground, possession is the law.

I am trying to think of a play from this last season where a fumble turnover was not turnover.  The challenges I kind of remember involved a red flag leading to a non-turnover becoming a turnover.  Those will not be addressed by this rule.

This will mainly address fumbles where the guys knee is down prior to the ball coming out.

The new jerseys are out. Seahawks the only one with a big redesign.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8280d110/article/nfl-nike-roll-out-new-uniforms-for-32-teams?module=HP11_cp

Whole lot of sleeve stripage there.

I think the Browns uniforms are going to just be solid white tops and brown pants. They aren't even going to put names on the jerseys anymore because playing on this team is cruel and unusual punishment and shaming would just be overkill.  :oh_i_see:

Coincidentally the Raiders will just place the players Prison ID numbers on the back.

They called dibs on that over the Bengals?

Maybe they'll just have to settle for listing their 40 time and benchpress numbers from the combine.

As an aside, this is one of the finest quotes I have read in a comments section this year about my Browns and their draft potential:


 :drill:

Apparently Joe Flacco now thinks he's the best QB in the NFL (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7772584/joe-flacco-baltimore-ravens-says-think-best-qb-nfl).   :ye_gods:

I understand what you're saying, Joe, but there are other ways to get this point across without sounding like a total jackass. 

For Sjofn - Eli and his amazing beach body

Man I wish the Steelers would ditch the script numbers and go back to block ones.

I hate this off season, I'm trying so hard to not be excited for the Bengals but I just can't do it. If they could get DeCastro and Kirkpatrick in round one I feel like they have a chance at making the playoffs again, which I know I shouldn't be thinking...  :ye_gods:

If they still had Jonathan Joseph... I hate drafting a CB at 17th or 21st feels like the potential for getting an average nickle guy at best is high with these prospects and knowing the Bengals they may take a flyer on Mister 4 kids with 3 women out of Northern Alabama. Fucking. Mike. Brown.

Anyone else feel like this is a really weak year for skill positions on offense as well? I think Blackmon is overhyped and the kid out of ND might even be better, there isn't a break out TE at all. There is one stud RB and pundits are trying to talk up RG3 as a sure thing (he isn't) and the kid from A&M like he's worthy of a top ten pick by Miami (worst pick ever if they make that call).

Are you a Bengals fan?

I don't think the Bengals actually have fans... I think they are mostly "Bengal Toleraters".

That's what I was thinking.  I know one guy that has season tickets and loves them, but that's a rarity outside of Cincinnati.

Ahem:

loooooooooool

EDIT: Also, not a big fan of the Cardinals uniform. It's too much red at once, it sort of makes them look like they're wearing old timey long johns to me.

Can't be Eli....  Eli would be wearing water wings, as I'm not sure he can swim.

Saints are fucked.

Audio has emerged of Williams telling players to break Niners players AFTER they were warned by the league to knock it off. This will not help their appeal today.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=At9UbKohK6AeAkVEI4YLxPI5nYcB?slug=ms-silver_gregg_williams_speech_saints_49ers_bounty_040412

https://twitter.com/#!/AdamSchefter/status/187892218302955521

The comments by Williams made me physically ill. That guy deserves to have his head kicked in.

I'll give you $1000 to do it.

That guy is fucked, but I suspect he's being made a scapegoat for a much large problem in the NFL as a whole.  This is just the tip of the iceberg.

He is getting in trouble because they got caught.

If you bust a guy for breaking into a car, he's not a scapegoat for guys that break into cars.... he's just the idiot that got caught.

And then the Saints were warned, and continued to do it. And then lied to Goodell.

Goodell is making an example of the Saints though. And he should.

This kind of shit where you call out players by name and refer to their injuries so you can ruin them? You're a coach, for heaven's sake. You are supposed to be guiding force on a team of charged up players. It's "sweep the leg" type bullshit.

In any case, people don't try to "get their ducks in a row" or lie their asses off when asked questions if they believe they were doing something accepted and right.

That's the crux of the matter -- while this goes on league wide (come on, what is the mindset of those excelling linebackers?, and only the dim James Harrisons of the league actually express it publicly), the Saints coaching staff chastened yet continued unrelenting in the behavior.

The worst part is NY only got another ring because they used those exact tactics against the 49ers and that kid fucking gave them the game. At the same time I blame the coaching staff for not realizing he wasn't ok and taking him out before the final fumble.

Obviously.  But people are fucking stupid if they don't think this is going on all over the league. 

Institutionalized bounties run by the coaching staff? I don't believe that's going on at all. Bounty systems within the player ranks? That's a totally different story. The reason this gets hammered on is because the coaches were the ones running the show.

 :facepalm:

I'd agree in that I imagine there are coaches that are running (or at least heavily supporting and probably throwing money into the pot) for bounty systems, but not "all over the league." Some? Sure, but far from the majority would be run by coaches directly. Also, I doubt the majority of those bounty systems have the intent of hurting, as opposed to making a solid and hard hit on someone (which is different by intent, though the result may be the same).

I must admit that I do like that Lamarr Woodley is questioning the line between bounties and contract incentives though (link here) (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d828116c8/article/woodley-believes-nfl-contracts-have-their-own-bounties?module=HP11_around-the-league) as that really is a pretty blurry line for most teams (N.O. being a bit different since they lied about a bounty program and theirs was set with the intent to injure players which is why I think they should be penalized, since I don't really think having a basic bounty system that has good intentions should even be considered an issue).

I'm sure you also get coaches saying 'take that guy out of the game' without offering a bounty, which I'm not sure you could ever do anything about, even though that's really the bad thing at the core of this, not the reward structure.

I think with regards to the audio people are a bit shocked by how explicit it is.  Hit the guy with the recent concussion in the head, take out the ACL of their receiver, etc.

We can all sort of justify "All right men, lets go out their and fuck them up!" or "Let's hit him so hard he can't get up!"  But the specific nature of how they want to injure guys is going beyond anything most of us thought they were doing in the worst case.  Even something general like "$1000 bucks for knocking a guy out of the game" seems less egregious than this audio.

I heard a bit of that audio at lunch.  :ye_gods: Gregg Williams is LE FUCKED. There is no excuse for that shit. He specifically says to test out dude's ACL. That's fucking insane. ACL's are generally 6 week to full seasons lost. Some guys never recover their mojo after an ACL. You're talking about fucking with someone's career there.

Fuck Gregg Williams in the earhole.

Do I think there are bounties league wide? Sure. This goes way beyond that and the audio drives that home. The craziest part is that he KNEW there was a guy FILMING AND RECORDING IN THE SAME FUCKING ROOM. Are you mentally deficient?

Some levity: http://www.theonion.com/articles/ryan-leaf-somehow-worse-at-crime-than-football,27861/

NFL schedule is posted (http://www.nfl.com/schedules/2012/REG1).
Thanksgiving should be pretty awesome this year with Hou @ Det, WAS @ Dal, NE @ NYJ. It's sad when NE @ NYJ may be more boring than WAS @ Dal, but that all depends on how G3 does this season imo.

Overall, I like this schedule

http://www.nfl.com/schedules/2012/REG/BROWNS

Looks like Barkley will be in the orange and brown in 2013.  :oh_i_see:

Week 11 and 13 matchup between Ravens and Steelers is a bit :uhrr:

Eagles have 4 games against teams coming off BYE.  I have no idea if this actually has meaning, but some sports blogs are focusing on it. 

Here's my feelings on the Cowboys schedule. It's brutal. Outside the division we draw Chicago, Seattle, Baltimore, Carolina, TB, Atlanta, Cleveland, Cincy, Pitt, and New Orleans. Five of those teams went to the playoffs last year, Washington will have RG3, Carolina has Cam, TB went out and got 5 big FA signings, and Seattle is IN Seattle which is never easy. Plus our bye week is Week 5, which means that we get no advantage from it.

Atlanta's schedule isn't much easier. They have to deal with the Giants, Cowboys, Broncos, Chargers (on the road), Eagles, and Lions. That's a tough road as well.

I think Houston has one of the most favorable schedules this year.

There are a couple more situations like that this year, and PFT did a good analysis on these situations (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/17/three-division-rivals-play-twice-in-three-games/) showing 3 different divisional rivalries that play twice within three weeks time. Ravens-Steelers, Bears-Vikings, and Colts-Texans.

The Ravens vs Steelers is the one rivalry that I am interested in seeing them be close together. Personally, I'd absolutely love it if it was Ravens vs Steelers twice in three weeks with only a bye week inbetween the games. That is one of the best rivalries in the NFL that I could watch week in and week out if it was available.

On another note - take a look at the Sunday night games, that schedule is loaded with awesome this year.

Broncos are not coming to NY this season.  That would have been interesting.

I am indifferent to this season because none of it means anything, the Giants never, ever repeat and I see no reason to think they will this time.  :why_so_serious:  As long as they beat the Eagles and the Cowboys at least once (bonus if it fucks those teams over somehow), I will consider the season a win.

We still have Romo and Jerry Jones as the GM.

We can fuck ourselves over, thank you very much.

It's more fun when the Giants do it, though.  :grin:

No fucking idea how Packers and Patriots get easy schedules. Annoying.

Two best, most marketable QBs in the league? Yeah wonder why the NFL would want THOSE GUYS in the playoffs.

Mostly because of the divisional stuff. Not only are the AFC East and NFC North pretty weak divisions, its those divisions turns to play the even weaker divisions in the NFC West and AFC South. (Do they do it by turns? I am just making an assumption there.)

Although thinking about this it seems like it should mean the 49ers also have an easy schedule and that isn't the case.

Yes it's on a rotating basis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_rivalries#Background

Giants first four games are odd.

Game 1 Wednesday
Wait 11 Days then...
Game 2 Sunday
Wait 4 Days then...
Game 3 Thursday
Wait 10 Days then...

G'damn.

Are sched is brutal though for the whole NFC East for that matter.  We play the AFC North and NFC South.

That means the NFC East plays the Saints, Falcons, Steelers, Bengals and Ravens, all playoff teams, then you also have to play an emerging Carolina team.  That's the same for the Cowboys, Eagles, Giants and Skins.

Now The Giants have to face the first place team in the NFC West and North which is the 49ers and Packers.  All told, that's 7 playoff teams, 4 of them on the road.

Having one weak team in the NFC North doesn't make it a weak division.

For scheduling - iirc, yes, the scheduling is you play each of the other three teams in your division twice, play the four teams from another division in the same conference, then the four teams from one of the opposite conference's divisions, and then something with the rankings from the previous season to determine the previous two years. The divisions you play rotate every so often to make sure teams play each other so many times in so many years

Edit: Wikipedia explains it much better (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_regular_season#Formula)

Wait, wait, the NFC North is a weak division? Are you kidding me? Not only did they have the team with the best overall record AND a wild card slot, they also had the most wins of any division in the NFC. Hell, by almost any viewpoint I'd say they are probably the second strongest division in the NFL behind the NFC South going into 2012.

As for the AFC, I don't think they have a "strong" division other than the AFC North. The rest are just teams that are missing one or two pieces to make a playoff run (with the exception of Denver if Manning is 85% or better of what he was)

Yeah, the weird part is that you've got the Thursday game so close to your automatic mid-week first game.

Yeah, that's not right. The AFC East isn't a creampuff division, though it's certainly weaker than the AFC North or NFC North. The NFC North, however, is absolutely not a weak division. You have to think Chicago got BETTER with Brandon Marshall, a returning Cutler, an offensive coordinator who doesn't try to get his QB killed by not blocking for him and making 7-step drops his version of the quick pass. The Lions will be at least as good as last year if not better. The Packers may lose more games this year - but I still expect an 11 to 13 win season. The Vikings will be a pushover, that much is true.

I don't see Green Bay's schedule being all that easy. Ok, they get Indy and Jacksonville. I don't expect St. Louis or Tennessee to be a pushover, they have to play AT Seattle on a Monday night then play a Sunday afternoon game against New Orleans, and they have to play AT New York. Best news for them is playing Minnesota twice in the last 5 weeks of the season.

ESPN Has a nice SoS ranking.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/56896/2012-nfl-strength-of-schedule

Manning isn't getting any favors with his first season as the Broncos QB. Mind you, as a fan, I'm pleased with _5_ primetime games, including three before the Bye.

FIrst thing that hits me from that SoS ranking link is that I feel really bad for the Browns....wow. 7 games against playoff teams, 6 of those are divisional games. Their only "breaks" will be against the Colts w/ Andrew Luck, and a much improved Redskins with Griffin and a couple new receivers.

3-13 may be an ambitious goal for them this season. Though, they did do well vs divisional opponents last year, and have made some good moves on the defensive side of the ball in free agency, I just don't think they'll be able to pull out more than 1-2 divisional wins this year with their even worse offense when compared to last year's (I didn't think it was possible....but they proved me wrong....gg Cle).

3-13. That sounds about right. I think they get by the Bills, Indy and NYG (yes, I said it - this is what the Browns do to fuck with their fans).

HOWEVER, the Browns have never in their history (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/) gone 5 consecutive years with a losing record. Of course, that is always subject to change, but still.

In other news...
http://www.steelers.com/video-and-audio/photo-gallery/80th-Season-Throwback-Uniform---4-17/ad65d41e-3b56-4fd7-ae4a-f19aa1132d75
 :uhrr:

edit: Ugh. Eating and typing, not gud.

The NFC North is probably the toughest division in the NFC over the past few seasons, either that or the East. The AFC east I'll give you as a weak-ish division. For a good portion of the last season both the NFC wildcard spots were coming from the NFC North, and in the previous three seasons you have had a team from the NFC North taking at least one of the NFC wildcard spots. It's not the be-all-end-all measure, but I think calling it a weak division is a bit of a stretch. That said, who knows where we are heading with this season.

I saw those uniforms earlier but didn't want to subject others to have that image burned in their eyes. Those uniforms are just not right....not right at all.

I like the effect of the numbers just being taped to the uniforms.

Speaking of things being taped...

 :ye_gods:

Oh they are FUCKED.

They always use the first team caught as the example.  Lesson learned: don't get caught!

They wouldn't be the first team caught spying.

Belichick wasn't the first either.  People have pretty short-term memories when it comes to this stuff.  You have to slap a hand every season or two so that teams do a better job of concealing this stuff from the media/public.

Good news is the statute of limitations already ran out on the wiretapping violation.

Mostly, but not entirely if I read that article correctly, specifically this part:

While, if I'm understanding this correctly, they dodged a much MUCH larger bullet from Federal prosecution, but still may be sued by visiting teams if an investigation. I may be wrong, but that's what it seems like to me.

Yeah, the federal and state criminal statues of limitation are five and six years respectively.  The civil liability clock starts now from what was said on ESPN earlier. (IANAL and such.)

Jets to use Tebow as a personal protector on punts (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1157827-tim-tebow-told-he-will-help-out-on-punts-no-seriously)

Not. Enough.  :awesome_for_real:

I don't put much stock in that. Pretty much anything you hear from now until the draft is over turns out to be total crap. If we hear it again in two weeks? Then, yeah.

Dear God, why did they have to trade Tebow to the biggest fucking media market circus in the goddamn world?

Old news is old news (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/02/tim-tebow-may-have-a-role-on-jets-special-teams/). Has Tebowmania gone so far they're going to re-state old shit just to keep his name on a headline? I think the bigger story of the day for a second string baddie would be that NFL Films (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2012/04/nfl-films-rates-tim-tebow-ahead-of-earl-campbell-marcus-allen/1) actually rates Mark Sanchez's back up QB as the #7 best Heismann Trophy winner in the NFL...what the fuck?

They place him over Eddie George, Bo Jackson, Reggie Bush*, Rashaan Salaam, Tony Dorsett, Marcus Allen, Tony Campbell, Herschell Walker, Cam Newton (who probably shouldn't be on that list at all after only one season, even as amazing of a season as it was it just isn't a large enough sample size to put him on that list yet imo) and a whole slew of other players who were, you know, actually good at a pro level consistently for years.

Edit: Looks like of the 2400+ votes for whether he should be on that list, higher, or lower currently has 8% thinking he should be higher, 8% thinking #7 is about right, 10% think he should be lower, and 75% voting that "it's absurd he's on the list."

Heh, indeed.  :grin:

(http://i.imgur.com/0lQ7d.jpg)

 :ye_gods:

None of that was news, it was speculation at the time, to be perfectly fair. I will never tire of Tebow craziness now that it has nothing to do with the Broncos... well, until they play the Jets in the AFC Championship game.  :grin:

Yes, in fairness it was speculation at the time. Though, it was speculation based on the Jets wanting to use Tebow in various situations, and punt plays isn't exactly a shocking surprise as one of the results

More news on the NFL Films list of bullshit though - they posted the criteria (http://nflfilms.nfl.com/2012/04/24/producers-respond-to-tim-tebow-top-10-outrage/) for that list (since, for some reason, more than a player's stats/career are being taken into account), and it only gets more face-palmy from here. The criteria is:

Their reasoning? "The Heisman Trophy isn’t always about who’s the best player. Just ask Larry Fitzgerald and Eli Manning about losing out to Jason White."  :facepalm:

The best part - if passing the mom test is a criterai - how is OJ Simpson on there?

the draft can't come soon enough so there's something better to talk about regarding the NFL

The Heisman isn't about the best player. It's about the best player on the best team with the best exposure.

Don't forget offensive skill positions only!

It is kind of a dumb award.

I've always thought of the Heisman as sort of an MVP-for-college type award.  That doesn't make it a bad award.  I think that whoever gets it usually deserves it.  It has nothing to do with who is going to eventually have the best pro career, nor should it. 

I disagree. I think it's a bad award.

Not only does it totally miss the point of football, which is the ultimate TEAM sport, but it also actively weeds out anybody who isn't a quarterback or runningback at this point. Never mind the fact it's a political circle jerk run by a bunch of assholes.

If they're going to call it the award for the best college player, only ever giving it to QBs and RBs is a joke, is the main thing for me.

You've just described basically every award given, Paelos.  They are going to be subjective political circle jerks.  As for the concern with only QBs or RBs, who cares?  There are awards for the best lineman. 

 :roll:

Can you name these prestigious awards that lineman get without using google/Wikipedia ?

The Heisman is a joke. But it is one that is foisted off as being this symbol of greatness that it really isn't.

You guys are being entirely too righteous.  The award is fine.  There are plenty of other things that should be the focus of the f13 sports ire.  This really isn't one of them.

Edited to add-  one award is the Outland award, I believe give to the best O lineman. And no, I didn't Google it

There's enough hate in our hearts for both.

Now ask 5 of your patients today what the Outland award in football is and then what the Heisman is.   For randomness, let's say the 9:30, 11:00, 2:30, 3:30 and 5:00 appointments.  That will illustrate the 'prestige' of one vs the other.

I think you are all being ridiculous.  I love the Heisman, as is. 

I think you dodged the question, because you know that nobody knows any of the other awards in college football. The only one I know off the top of my head is the Ray Guy for punting because Georgia has won it so many times.

Awards don't mean shit if you cannot deliver in the pros.  What percent of Heisman winners went to the Hall of Fame?  Just a wild guess it is less than 20%.  One of them used to be a salesman at my firm 3 jobs ago.

No, I didn't dodge the question.  The Heisman is what the Heisman is.  It's not any different than the MVP in any other sport.  It's heavily biased towards offense and position, as are all the other MVPs.  Do you know when the last time an interior lineman won the NFL MVP?  Never!  You've had a defensive tackle, a placekicker and a linebacker.  The rest are quarterbacks (90%) and running backs (10%).  What about the MLB MVP?  It's heavily biased against pitchers, although I think everyone is aware that the best pitcher on the best team should routinely be considered for the award.  And (in a shocker, I know) the award is heavily biased toward the best offensive player, who usually is an OF, 1B or 3B player.  The NBA MVP is probably the most varied in who it is given to, but it is almost invariably given to one of the top scorers in the league on one of the better teams.  Steve Nash was an anomaly, a winner that got the award for his assists and scoring, but he certainly didn't get it because of his defense.  NHL MVP is focused clearly on offense.  Almost exclusively it's a center or an offensive player with a goalie peppered in every now and again.  

I'm sure there's general gnashing of teeth about how all these awards are so biased, but it's really just blathering about nothing.  Do you know why nobody knows who the winner of the John Mackey award or the Rimington Trophy is?  Because they don't care.  Offense steals the show and you'll just have to learn to sleep at night with that understanding.  

I think there's some overreacting going on here, but I don't think it's the people that think the Heisman sucks.

That is a highly intelligent retort.  It's full of information.   :grin:

Troll on. 

People say "Hey, Heisman is kind of a joke" and your reaction makes it seem like there will be RIOTS IN THE STREETS.

Providing real comparisons of other biased awards that people don't bitch about is making it "seem like there will be RIOTS IN THE STREETS"?  Interesting.  Also, I would reference Chimpy and Merusk, who have their own pitchforks and torches out. 

The problem is with that assumption. It's dangerously close to being a strawman argument. Most people that would complain about the Heisman issue would also complain about those other awards.

I don't hear it. 

But even if they do the point remains that it's a silly thing to bitch about.  Usually the MVP of these leagues and the Heisman winner is one of the very, very top players in their sport.  There's a media and fan bias towards offense.  Woopty shit.  That's life. 

(http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/photo/2012/0423/grant_g_obama1_sl_640.jpg)

To be a top player in your sport you have to do it at the highest level. The Heisman is bullshit for that fact. They pick guys who aren't the best. They are the most popular.

The last Heisman winner to be an NFL hall of famer was Barry Sanders in 1988. Since 1935, only 8 Heisman winners are in the NFL Hall. Let me give you a list since 1990.

Ty Detmer, Desmond Howard, Gino Torretta, Charlie Ward, Rashaan Salam, Eddie George, Danny Wuerffel, Charles Woodson, Ricky Williams, Ron Dayne, Chris Weinke, Eric Crouch, Carson Palmer, Jason White, Matt Leinart, <VACATED>, Troy Smith, Tim Tebow, Sam Bradford, Mark Ingram, Cam Newton, RG3.

You know how many of those guys are probowlers? Six.

There is no doubt it is a good career move to win the Heisman.  I don;t think anyone disagrees with that.   It just has very little predictive value about professional success.

My point is guys like Ndamukong Suh, Maurkice Pouncey, and Jason Pierre-Paul don't win the Heisman. They just go to pro-bowls and win playoff games in the NFL.

The Heisman is not an award designed to pick the best future NFL player.  It is for the most outstanding player in college football, not the best or the most talented or the best potential future, the most outstanding.  That is clearly centered around college football, not the NFL.  Interpret how that player should have impacted his team as you will, but there is no doubt that you shouldn't be considering their NFL potential.  

The NFL is also full of guys that were drafted after the third round that become stars.  Should these guys have been picked for the Heisman simply because they were in the Pro Bowl?  The possibility makes no sense.

Also, Paelos, look at the number of guys on your list that were very successful at the college level, often leading their team to the national title.  That's why it's a college award and not given at the end of their career when we can see how successful they were in the pros.

It doesn't even do that right. In most cases it just picks the best QB or RB on the national championship team. That didn't work this year when both National championship contenders were known for DEFENSE of course. Gino Torretta wins over Marshall Faulk? Eric Crouch was better than Rex Grossman? What about Jason White being better than Larry Fitzgerald? Reggie Bush over Vince Young? Matt Leinart was better than Adrian Peterson?

In every way, shape, and form, the award puts too much emphasis on your team winning a large bowl game rather than the most outstanding player. If you want to call it that, follow through on it.

Shouldn't the definition of most outstanding player probably include being successful at winning games, particularly the big games?

No. The most outstanding player should be the best statistical player of the year, regardless of position and the rest of your team's wins or loses.

That's your opinion, which is apparently not shared by anyone that chooses or was involved in founding the Heisman (or really any other major sporting award). 

Bullshit. Cy Young, Silver Slugger, Triple Crown, Naismith, Vardon Trophy, Hart Trophy, etc.

Only football really fucks this up by going LOL QB THAT WINZ! and handing the trophy to him.

The only ones of those that are pure stats are the pure stat baseball ones.  The others are not and have a lot of subjective factors injected into the decision.

I can see you're going to be obtuse. There are subjective factors, but they still judge those subjective factors better than HE'S ON TEH WINNING TEAM!

Robert Griffin III wasn't on the winning team.  

The Heisman Trust's Mission:  


It's also well known that winning is a part of their formula, even though they clearly don't always choose the "winner".  

 :awesome_for_real:

"Most outstanding" is not a vaguely nebulous term like "most valuable" is.  It's for the best player.  The Heisman does a pretty terrible job at fulfilling its mandate of honoring the best player that lacks severe integrity issues.

Bad example. It's not about winning the championship, it's about the potential to win the championship. So very very often they pick the guy they think will win it all, and are dead wrong. It's laughable. The reason they went with Griffin last year was because they had no other choice. The two teams playing were both SEC teams that specialized in defense! The HORROR! At least they tossed Mathieu a bone by letting him come to NY.

Cam Newton - QB for the champion
Mark Ingram - RB for the champion
Sam Bradford - Runner up in the championship game (they couldn't vote for Timmy T twice)
Tebow - They got this one right, he was statistically so much better than anybody else it wasn't funny
Troy Smith - losing QB in the champ game (voters HATED Chris Leak)
Bush and Leinart - duh
Jason White - lost in the title game to an LSU team that had Dwayne Bowe and Joseph Addai.

Well, I think it is clear that we will have to agree to disagree, Paelos.  And you are wrong.   :grin:

 :facepalm:

It just seems self-evident to me that there are years when the actual "most outstanding" player in football is going to be a defensive player.

Yes, very much so.  In fact, I would say that Nick Fairly was as much a reason that Auburn won the national title as Cam Newton and should have been in the running for the big awards.  But that isn't how the Heisman works.  It has never worked that way and never will. 

Then, by even your own standards, that makes it a BAD AWARD

No, it's just fine.  Because clearly Cam Newton deserved the award that year.  Fairly could have gotten it as well, but Newton was the best choice. 

Hmm.  The NFL is moving forward to get rid of the Pro Bowl (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7857508/nfl-moving-suspend-pro-bowl-sources-say).  I think that's a great idea.  I wish they would do away with all the All Star games.  I can't think of anything less interesting. 

I've never been a big fan of the Pro Bowl but I do enjoy the NHL All Star Weekend, specifically the skills competition.

I'm all for ditching the Pro Bowl. I haven't given two shits about the actual game since I was a teenager. It's just a boring game to watch.

I'm stoked for the draft tonight. Got the Tivo set so I can fast forward through the between round blather and turn a 3-hour event into the 15 minutes of interest it will actually be.

Fuck yes.  I forgot that tonight was the draft. 

I loved those old QB challenge things they use to do back in the day. Throw to a moving target on a golf cart, how many throws you could make in a set amount of time, etc. Only problem, it was only the QBs partaking in it.

That said... fuck the probowl. It was better after the season was over, but only because it was that one more game to watch even though it was a fucking horrible one to look at.

As for the draft... can't wait to see who's career the Browns fuck up next.

I like the baseball All-Star game, and the NHL skills thing is pretty fun. Otherwise I can pretty much take or leave them.

Yeah, seeing the best pitchers go for an inning or two is always awesome. 

And so it begins...

3 trades in the first 6 picks. Love the drama with the new rookie payscale. The hold up on the announcement is now firmly in the hands of the commisioner as he takes photos with each player. 6 picks in under 30 minutes.

Seems like a pretty reasonable first round.  I guess people are saying Seattle reached, but if it was , it was a pretty uninteresting reach.

The Browns taking Weeden just killed me. Well at least they won't ruin a good QB, because, well...Cleveland.

I'll wait until the draft is over to whine, but was a bit annoyed at the Broncos straight up trading out of the first round... but I guess with the top level DTs gone, there wasn't a lot to gun for that they wanted.

The rookie wage scale change has made the draft super-interesting to watch now. It was actually interesting to watch - though I Tivoed it and zipped through all the dead time between picks. All those trades... awesome. I love that my Packers got a DE/OLB with their pick, though I was hoping they'd get the kid from Boise State that Chicago ended up picking. I think Seattle really screwed the pooch with that pick, but then Carroll's never been shy about picking up "questionable" characters in the past. Dallas trading up to get Claiborne might actually be the steal of the draft. It absolutely filled a HUGE need for them.

Poor Cleveland. You got the guy you were probably going to get anyway, but fuck's sake did you give up a SHITLOAD for it. 4 picks? He better be damn good. Whedon couldn't even hide his disappointment at being shipped off to the factory of sadness. I think with a run game, Colt McCoy will be a decent QB if they keep him and they absolutely should keep him (there's talk of trading him now) so long as Richardson works out in the running game. Minnesota did VERY well, getting all those picks, getting the guy they wanted anyway AND getting back into the first round to get the best safety available at the time. Tampa did good as well getting both Barron and the running back Martin. The Jags might have overpaid to get Blackmon, but holy shit, they need somebody that can catch the ball.

Defense really ruled this draft, especially pass rushers. Sure Luck and RG3 got the headlines, but once the marquee guys came off the board, it was defense, defense, defense except where a team needed an O-lineman really badly.

I think New England had a pretty good first round.  They've got two more picks in round two as well.

Which will be all they have left in this draft. I still don't get how DeCastro fell to the Steelers. How often can you satisfy both need and best player available at #24 in the first round?!

True, but 4 picks in the first two rounds isn't too bad.  Although they are known for getting value you late in the draft.  To me it points to the fact that they see the clock ticking on Brady and want to pick high and put some pieces in that they don't have to develop much.  They want to take a couple more runs at this thing before he is done.

I really don't get how he is questionable. Seems like his is a feel good story or am I missing something? (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--west-virginia-prospect-bruce-irvin-ditches-burglary--drug-game-for-shot-at-nfl.html)

To be fair, Cleveland only gave up three picks and swapped spots. Most of those picks we gave up were from previous years' trade downs and chances of picking up a probowl stud post 4th round are slim. Browns were truly worried about the Bucs trading Minn and stealing their shot at Trent ... after the RGIII thing, yeah, I can see why. Weeden? I mean at 22? They could have waited - however, with Floyd and Wright off the board and thinking of taking Hill @ 22 was too high, I suppose they took a shot. They probably should have picked an OL at that spot, best available, then gone after a WR in the second round and leave Weeden till 3. Now they are stuck with a deflating McCoy and his rookie replacement who just happens to be almost 4 years older. Of course, this means Colt can go down to Jacksonville or Miami and get into the playoffs - which always seems to happen to ex-cleveland players.

Was texting my friend in Chicago last night who is a HUGE Browns fan and the texting abruptly stopped after Weeden was picked. 20 minutes later, all I got back was /wrists. If Hasselbeck v1.8 doesn't immediately step up this year, the Walrus is going to have a whole nation of Browns fans ready to tie him to the FREE Stamp statue in Cleveland and set him on fire. Every year the Browns preach about building through the draft and every year all our picks amount to mild successes or flat out busts. Time to reconsider using the draft guys...13 years and it hasn't worked once. Try Free Agency a couple of times...

I've wondered why they kept moving out of the first the last couple years when they had multiple high picks as well seeing as their window got tighter every year. Guess BB just saw more value in this draft.

I really expected Jenkins to go before this train wreck. Feel good? Maybe... But in terms of football skill, is a great pass rusher, but leaves a lot to be desired on the run stoppage side.

Maybe the Irvin kid has got his head on straight. It's entirely possible and I hope that's the case. It just seemed like a weird-o pick from a team with a coach who has what I consider questionable morals.

For Cowboys fans only  :why_so_serious: (http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/4/27/2980188/dallas-cowboys-draft-morris-claiborne-other-nfl-fans-react)

My Niners fan friends are generally down on our pick. But you know, they all bitched about Aldon Smith too.

Jenkins problem wasn't that he didn't have a QB to throw to him as much as it was he was playing for a team "coached" by Ron the terribad Zook.

MY turn to be down on a pick: LaMichael James, do not want.

Why not?

He hates the Ducks?

If he was only one out of the following 3 things:

1) an asshole
2) injury prone
3) can't break a tackle at all once you get a hand on him

Then I could deal. Problem is he seems to be all 3.

Very odd draft for 49ers, time will tell but they seemed lost.

I bring you internet greatness (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52641)

That was awesome!  Soooo glad they drafted a protector for Stafford even though, being the Lions, they just HAD to get a WR.  :oh_i_see:

Well, Calvin Johnson is on the cover of Madden this year so they needed a backup plan.  :awesome_for_real:

Yeah no shit. I'm still not sure why athletes don't just block EA's number when the Madden folks start calling. "Yes, I'd love to get $50k to be the cover athlete. I don't need that ACL."

It's strange that the cover selection is now determined by a fan poll. Do you vote for or against your favorite players?

Don't...even, I mean don't even JOKE about that man.  I'm the only Lions fan in my family, do you know how many Thanksgiving games I've had to endure?  DO YOU?

Well it was nice watching the Browns grab T.Rich and I am even ok with taking Weeden, and the RT to help out with the run blocking... but in true Cleveland fashion, they shit the bed after that. a 5'9" WR?  Sigh. Another 3-13 season on the way. :oh_i_see:

I know a lot of people bag on Weeden because he is old, and because he doesn't have the flash of a guy like Griffin but I watched quite a few Ok State games last season and he showed a ton of poise and leadership ability.

I think the Browns had one of the worst drafts in the league. They should have rolled the dice with Colt and spent that second pick on the offensive line or defense. If Colt still sucks ass with Richardson helping him then congrats you go get one of the top three QB's in 2013 draft whatever it takes and go from there.

Again I honestly think that Wheeden would be there for them at 67 and if he wasn't I cannot believe that they really thought he was that much of a safer gamble compared to Cousins/Wilson who in the 3rd/4th would be getting paid that much less.

Unless their picks on defense (which were pretty cool, there's a lot to like about Acho and the Nevada kid) work out though this is the draft that will doom Shurmur.

Wheedon was a decent pickup, considering how shitty the Browns are at QB. 

Think about it like this. A 1st round QB pick isn't going to cost them more than $20 million and could work out really well. Or, it could if they weren't Cleveland.  :oh_i_see:

They could have had Kellen Moore for free basically too, I still expect him to be much better than people think.

I doubt Kellen Moore will amount to much.  There's a reason that he went undrafted.  

Here (http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/30/kellen-moore-not-drafted-no-reason-to-feel-blue/#)'s a nice article on the subject.  

I am pleased with the last two drafts out of my Cowboys. I'm less pleased about the fact we still have our mental midget QB, but we only have to put up with him for 2 more years.

I think Moore will do well.

Moore will probably never even play a down in the NFL.

Because NFL personnel people make the scouts in the Moneyball movie look like the staff of Baseball Prospectus.

Ryan Lindley from SDSU (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/28260) was picked in the 6th round by the Cardinals, he had a slightly lower overall grade to Moore on account of:

Mental Makeup: "puts too much faith in arm strength and throws into coverage far too often"
Accuracy: "far too inconsistent with his accuracy"
Pocket Mobility: "Pocket presence and mobility are below average"

but hey, he looks like a Quarterback:

Release/Arm Strength: "Arm strength is just a notch below elite"
Height-Weight-Speed: "Prototypical blend of height and weight"

Just because you are drafted high doesn't mean you will pan out (Ryan Leaf), but other than Tony Romo and Kurt Warner, I don't know of any undrafted QBs in the past 20 years that were worth a shit. 

Moore was signed by Detroit. I hope Stafford has an injury free year, but there are still questions there IMO.

Moore is still third on the depth chart (and will probably stay there). 

I personally will root for the guy.  He seems like a class act and a hard worker.  I just don't think he'll go anywhere.  He will, however, get the best job in the world, which is holding a clipboard on the sidelines of NFL games for a nice salary.

As a Lions homer, I can safely say that Shaun Hill sucks so.......I'd say that 2nd spot will be up for grabs in 2013.

And with Stafford's glass shoulders, it won't be long.  :why_so_serious:

The Bears fan community was only divided over whose ballot box to stuff, Megatron or Rodgers.

Can we start up a pool?  I've got 5 dollars on a collar bone break in the 4th game.

You people are crushing my spirit.

I predict he will buck the trend and break the curse.

I'm going to agree with Cyrex.  And I'm also going to predict a superbowl win.  


Edited to add this:

The Bucs have added former Rutgers player Eric Legrand to their 90 man roster (http://tracking.si.com/2012/05/02/tampa-bay-buccaneers-add-paralyzed-eric-legrand-to-90-man-roster/?sct=hp_t2_a5&eref=sihp).  He was paralyzed from the waist down while playing.  That is pretty goddamned cool. 

That's pretty classy of them

4 players suspended for their roles in the bounty system (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7881761/nfl-bans-four-players-new-orleans-saints-bounty-roles). 

Johnny Vilma-  Season
Anthony Hargrove-  8 games
Will Smith-  4 games
Scott Fujita-  3 games

This seems like a pretty heavy handed deal for just 2 players.  While on paper it seems like a harsh deal, only a couple of players got really hit.  I find it hard to believe that it was just these four guys. 

Vilma was the one quoted as putting a 10k hit on Favre. I imagine that dollar amount and flagrancy of the action did not help him.

Yeah, not surprised at all by that suspension. 

Indeed.  Greg Schiano, new Bucs coach, was the coach at Rutgers for the last decade or so.  Cool to see him do that.

Junior Seau dead of apparent suicide. (http://www.10news.com/news/30993007/detail.html) :/

I just heard that on Yahoo. That's awful!

One can only assume that his car wreck in 2010 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/18/junior-seau-drives-suv-off-cliff-after-jail-release_n_766692.html) was a previous suicide attempt. 

That's terrible!  You just never know what folks are going through.

Curse of the '94 Chargers?

Or one more piece of evidence for the whole head trauma thing. Sounds like he shot himself in the chest much like Dave Duerson did, so I expect they'll be able to shed some light on whether that was potentially involved.

Concussions from football made him suicidal?  Is that a thing?

Well not just from football, but yes, it is a thing. It isn't specifically always suicide, but it can lead to a lot of mental problems including serious depression (and thus suicide.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_traumatic_encephalopathy

Duerson left specific details - he shot himself in the chest so they could properly study his brain.

Regardless, one would hope that they would study Seau's brain too.  The head trauma thing isn't going away anytime soon (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=21952.0). 

I'd suspect Seau took that route so his brain could be studied. I can't fathom why anyone would commit suicide by shooting themselves in the chest... way too much room for error and too long a duration as opposed to the alternatives. There had to be something to it...

Ravens just took a serious hit to their chances this season - Suggs tore his achilles playing basketball and is probably out for the year.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-suggs-could-be-done-for-year-20120503,0,4111173.story

As a football fan, Suggs is one insane beast and will be missed....

As a Browns fan...  :grin:

I'd thought Seau commited suicide because he couldn't deal with post-NFL life properly.  It's gotta be tough to be such a long time player which that many accolades.  When something that intense has been part of your life, every year, since childhood...  That's tough.

RIP

Depression and dementia (another serious issue stemming from concussions) will really hurt your chances with dealing with life.

There's a definite link between chronic pain, depression and repetitive head trauma. 

Saw that. It's a HUGE deal for them. Lewis is declining and Suggs was their main LB star. That team has missed their window for a Super Bowl. Flacco has proven he can't handle the big games, IMO. He almost lost them that Houston game.

Johnathan Vilma sues Roger Goodell for defamation (http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Jonathan-Vilma-sues-Roger-Goodell-for-defamation.html)

 :awesome_for_real:

 :facepalm:

My sports boner continues to grow over how poorly the Taints are dealing with this issue.

And I love the fact that they still haven't offered their only salvation a contract. Tell you what Saints? If you don't want to deal, I'm sure Jerry would love Brees's phone number.

Yeah, not giving the keys to the kingdom to Drew Brees this late in the game is just pants on head retarded. The man pretty much saved your fucking franchise (along with Payton, of course). He won the only fucking Super Bowl you ever got to. He loves playing for you, he loves the community, and his squeaky clean image makes your entire franchise look better. It should have been handled a year ago. If you can't afford him, you should fucking trade him for a lot of future picks because by God, you know you could get a king's ransom for him.

LOL, Raiders. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/football/nfl/05/17/rolando.mcclain.sentenced.raiders.ap/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a14&eref=sihp)

Players with guns.

It's like players in clubs after midnight.

Or both, if you're Plaxico Burress.

Yes he's a special brand of failure on that one.

I think he would prefer you to call him efficient.

The caption to the photo


 :drill:

Lawsuit time in the NFL

http://m.deadspin.com/5912702/union-files-collusion-lawsuit-against-nfl-alleging-secret-123-million-salary-cap-in-uncapped-year (http://m.deadspin.com/5912702/union-files-collusion-lawsuit-against-nfl-alleging-secret-123-million-salary-cap-in-uncapped-year)

http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=7963260 (http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=7963260)

May be a big payday to the players after all.

HA! The NFL can't win on this one. If they agree there was a cap, then the players win. If they prove there wasn't a cap then the Cowboys and Redskins win.

Or they could just lawyer their way along and settle. Which is very likely going to be what happens.

Settling doesn't mean you win. In fact, I'd rather fight the player one and let the Cowboys and Skins off the hook as that costs me nothing.

I wasn't looking for winning. I was looking for mitigated lose and shifting the story to a point in time when no one will care. Of course, most fans don't actually care about the machinations of millionaires anyway.

Well it went through arbitration that fell on the side of the NFL.

"Some QB I Used To Know"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lETl9vA9VWw

God, I hate that fucking song.

I had not heard of it somehow until the parody.

I heard of it yesterday when I read EW's 12 Best Singles of 2012 So Far story. 10 out of 12 I couldn't finish listening to. I'm OLD.

That was great! LOL

The NFL is making the All 22 film available to (almost) anyone. (http://deadspin.com/5918786/the-nfl-will-make-its-all+22-film-available-to-everyone-next-year-and-football-writing-will-never-be-the-same-again)

I know there was mention of this a while again in another nfl thread - but I think this is great.

You know you are a football geek when that news makes your day. Really looking forward to learning a lot more about coverages and offensive reads and options. Very exciting!

I absolutely agree!

I don't expect I'll be able to subscribe to get the All 22 film, but I am hoping that at least one of the highlight shows uses it.

Too bad I can't subscribe to a single team's games with All-22 LIVE. They have an online package for $35 to get all games of a single team, but it's only on-demand, after the fact, not live games.

But glad that the All-22 is going to be available. Wish the networks would show it.

Well, we always sort of knew the reason they didn't release all-22 was because they suspected demand wasn't high enough for people to actually PAY for it.

Then, they found out otherwise.

That cracks me the fuck up.

"The FANS, they might be critical of our play! aieee!"

That's the hilarious part to me as well, because with the entire coverage of the field, we would know the whole story. You can't jump to conclusions when you see what happened in front of your eyes.

Unless your gameplan was to fuck up a coverage, in which case, yeah you have a right to be criticized.  :why_so_serious:

Christ, like facts or knowledge will affect the mouth breathing slacktards that call into talk radio.  The fact that it's actually impossible to fully understand the game at the X and O level as it's currently shown on TV is part of the fucking problem with the sport.

Ask a "big football fan" what an illegal shift is. More than half will have no clue.

People simply don't care about the X's and O's on a large scale. That's reserved for nerds like us.

Speaking of Illegal Shifts. NFL showed 12 reporters the same stuff they showed the players today. Sounds damning.

https://twitter.com/#!/AdamSchefter

https://twitter.com/#!/SI_PeterKing

"The $35k bounty on Favre, the league claims, included a $5000 pledge from current interim Saints coach Joe Vitt."

Just take the franchise away.

Hahaha they were complaining about no evidence?

There's an exhibit with the defensive players called "2010 Kill the Head Totals"

There's another where they hold up the actions of General Blackjack Pershing as a solid idea.

There's several where they detail the exact cash structure with names and events for the players getting bounties.

It just goes on and on and on. Even the slides where they don't say something about the bounties, you get a very accurate picture of exactly how stupid they really are in their everyday lives.

Serious question, what IS an illegal shift?

2 men in motion that don't become reset for a second before the ball gets snapped.

Oh, we don't have that in the CFL  :why_so_serious:

We know. You silly Canadians with your "cross the line of scrimmage at full tilt when the ball is snapped" wide receivers.

Is it just me or has this been a particularly bad offseason for players getting arrested?

I believe there were over 40 in 2010. It went down in 2011, but we're roaring back in 12. A lot of it is because the recent ones are bigger names.

Yeah, the incidents are surely getting a lot of press.  But it will be the NBA that still has all the thugs in the media's eye. 

Dez Bryant smacks around his mama, Marshawn Lynch and a few others apparently can't afford taxis when they are out at "da club." So seriously, WTF? Hopefully going to be a lot of game checks forfeited this year.

That doesn't even take into account all the Saints nonsense, which obviously contributes to the feeling of general douchiness in the NFL right now. 

Every NFL team provides a car service to it's players specifically to avoid these kinds of things. Right now, 25 players have been arrested since the Super Bowl.

Here's a list: Ray McDonald, Rey Maualuga, JT Thomas, Mikel Leshoure, Nate Collins, Leroy Hill, Jarriel King, Mikel Leshoure (again, both for pot), Samson Satele, Koa Misi, Nick Fairley, Darrius Heyward-Bey, Brandon Meriweather, Caleb King, Nick Fairley (again!), Jerome Felton, Justin Blackmon, David Diehl, Aaron Berry, Muhammad Wilkerson, Eric Wright, Kiane Tripp, Adrian Peterson, Dion Lewis, Elvis Dumervil, Marshawn Lynch, and Dez Bryant.

Only 14 teams haven't had a player arrested. That means the majority have had an arrest.

Also, a shout out to David Diehl for being the lone honky on that list.

Fuck Diehl for being a pro-Chief douchebag.

Even if the NFL didn't provide a car service, a taxi is well within even the minimum league salaried player's means. It shows an incredible amount of stupidity to be caught driving drunk in this day and age as an NFL player. For a $30 taxi ride, you can avoid losing a game day check likely worth at least $50 grand.

I'll look for the link, but I recall some discussion about the offered car service and it was considerably more expensive than a straight up cab ride. Moot point though, since no one seems to select either choice.

It's $85/hr.

I think a lot of the issue (outside of stupidity of the players in question and those that haven't been caught) is the confusion of the program's existence and who's running what. I liked theose two articles on the issue. The first one was posted, and the second one was a response to the first article


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/mike-freeman/19303326/nfl-to-remind-all-employees-this-is-dangerous-time-for-dui-offenses
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d829b6720/article/safe-rides-program-still-open-to-players-nflpa-says

$85 an hour is nothing when you compare to the $1000 a night these guys will drop in a bar.

And it looks like the union fucked it up partly because they were afraid teams were using it to spy on their players.

Sounds to me like the union needs to start finding a way to hammer into these meatheads skulls how much money stupid shit like drunk driving can cost them in fines and lost wages from game suspensions.

Or explain how they could fucking kill someone and ruin their family's lives in addition to ending up in jail for a significant amount of time. 

Impacting someone else's life will mean a lot less than "taking away a game check" to most of the assholes we're talking about. I mean Dez Bryant was beating up on his GODDAMN MOTHER. I'm sure he gives not one gram of fuck for someone else's life.

To be fair, his mother is a reported drug addict and prostitute.

She didn't have some, not half, but all his cash, obv.

I doubt Dez is going to win any awards this year...

Speaking of convicts, Michael Vick needs to shut his fucking mouth (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8180116/michael-vick-believes-philadelphia-eagles-develop-dynasty) and win some football games. 



They are going to be the dynasty of .500 if he keeps giving other teams bulletin board material.  What a fucking idiot.

Hell, they won't even be 8-8 this season. Their schedule is a trainwreck of top tier teams.

Baltimore, Detroit, Pittsburgh, NYG, Atlanta, NO, and Cincy were all in the playoffs last year. That's 8 games right there against playoff opponents. Then you have to play an improved Tampa team on the road, and 2 games against Dallas who will be looking for revenge from losing both last season. There's maybe 5 easy games on that schedule. In fact, Red Zone ranked your schedule as the 6th toughest in the league.

GOOD LUCK!

The Eagles could be very good.  They have a lot of talent.  But you got to, at a minimum, have a winning record before you start talking about dynasties, right?  :awesome_for_real:

The eagle's success depends on who their quarterback is.

My Browns are 3rd! WE ARE FINALLY HIGH ON A LIST of some sort!  :heartbreak:

Yet still no championship even on a list that is shitting on you  :why_so_serious:

http://deadspin.com/5924462/why-your-team-sucks-2012-san-diego-chargers?tag=why-your-team-sucks-2012

Hilarious.  :awesome_for_real:

Why your team sucks 2012 Cleveland Browns.

We really don't need a reason...

Because you are from the earthly home of Howard the Duck and your uniforms are the color of poo.

They had a lot of talent last year, they still barely finished .500. Since we know Vick won't be on the field for 16 games this year, a lot will depend on how good their backup QB options are... oh.

If he does happen to stay on the field for the full 16 games they could be tough.  Otherwise they're looking at a losing record, IMO.

They'll be a tough out regardless - Desean Jackson and McCoy are just that good.

I'm sorry to report that Chad Ochocinco has changed his name back to Johnson (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8191660/chad-ochocinco-miami-dolphins-says-last-name-johnson-again).   :oh_i_see:

Yeah, busy day. Chad's name changed, Aaron Berry released from the Lions for being a repeat dumbass, and Louis Murphy goes to the Panthers (normally a Murphy move doesn't draw interest to me but when it is improving an already powerful offense this could be worth mentioning).

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/82533/facepalm01.gif)

I think Ichiro is going to get owned in the NFL instead of being in the American League.   :why_so_serious:

Hm, that probably means they won't want to trade for Schierholtz. Oh well.

I was blinded by my tears?

I feel for you man, I actually yelled at my car radio when I heard it.

This one's for the Seattle fan.

http://deadspin.com/5929379/why-your-team-sucks-2012-seattle-seahawks

I would have loved to get to write that section. Maybe next year.

If they don't start Flynn they need to fire Pete Carroll tomorrow.  That's just insane. 

FTFY. I do not understand why any NFL team hired him for a head coaching position.

This.

Yeah, I agree with you guys there.  I mean, I guess he's a serviceable NFL head coach, but I don't think he's a good enough coach to win a superbowl. 

Anyone who doesn't think they will start Flynn is a fool.  They just don't announce such things this early. 

I'm just going to say this... as a Broncos fan, these comments work perfectly if you equate TJax to Orton and Flynn to Tebow. I just sure hope it all ends up better for Seahawks fans. The conversation is identical.... with a little bit of Carrol = McDaniels thrown in.

Well, we are talking about Pete Carroll.......Didn't he have some pretty glowing things to say about Tarvaris Jackson when they signed him? 

Orton was and is a much better QB than everyone on that list except maybe Flynn, and the jury is still out on him.

I don't disagree. I never disliked Orton and he got a bad rap, and very very very happy that Tebow was run out of town. The actual text of the conversation is what reminded me of it. This exact conversation was all that happened for 2 years on Broncos forums.


Of course he did. Do you expect him to say "Welp, oh well."

He should have run up to the GM and punched him directly in the balls.

That would be tough, since his hand is up the GM's asshole. PC is the director of football operations. Schneider technically reports to him, I believe.

Wouldn't that make it easier? I mean, he does have two hands, and if his hand is up his ass, he's already close.


Brian Xanders = Schneider. IT ALL WORKS. Enjoy your Matt Tebow.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8225861/randy-lerner-sells-cleveland-browns-more-1b-sources-say

I have no clue what to make of this... a Steelers fan and investor buying the Browns from Randy? Lebron who?

Yeah, that's lil Jimmy Haslam.  They have a trucking/truckstop empire here in east TN.  He and his brother, who is our Governor, are Tennessee Oilers, if you will. 

They say he is a big football fan and played for UT back in the General Neyland days.  Can't be bothered to google.

I think the more amazing part of that story is that someone somewhere anywhere thinks the Browns are worth ONE BILLION FUCKING DOLLARS.

I am not sure the entire city of Cleveland is worth that.

Well the franchise is a goldmine with a history and fanbase that has proven itself by backing this woeful team (myself, sadly, included).

What history, it started in 1999.  :why_so_serious:

You're such a jerk.

Frank Caliendo is no longer part of the Fox pre-games, finally.  :awesome_for_real:

I would rather sit through 10 minutes of Caliendo every week if it meant I didn't have to listen to Joe Buck drone on. God he is terrible. Lucky for me that the Seahawks are shitty enough to not draw the #1 crew very often.

I'd rather listen to the dancing robot give commentary then either of them.

It's looking more and more like Kevin Kolb is going to be a huge bust.   He had a "bruised chest" and finished 1-4 for 4 yards with an intereception (http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp12/story/_/id/8237891/kevin-kolb-arizona-cardinals-leaves-preseason-game-bruised-ribs) in their scrimmage against the Saints. 

(http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/14/42/16/3285929/5/628x471.jpg)

 :heart:

That's one of the weirdest things I've ever seen. 

Wow.  Boomer Esiason completely annihilates Tim Tebow in these quotes (http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/08/06/boomer-esiasons-memo-to-jets-cut-tim-tebow/). 

I honestly don't know why New York is screwing around with him at QB. 

Trying to attract more Chik-Fil-A franchises?

 :awesome_for_real:

In pure football terms, it's not insane.  Tebow is certainly a Top 5 QB for a goal line package.  Ideally, you'd also get a pretty good passer in the same player (read: Cam Newton), but the Jets don't have that option and Tebow was inexpensive to acquire.

As for actually running a football team, there's a lot of downsides and everyone's gone over them a million times.  Maybe Ryan figures he can ride those out and still reap the rewards of having... whatever he thinks Mark Sanchez actually is at QB AND a really good goal line offense, but I sort of doubt it.  The Jets majorly successful year came when they spent boatloads of money during the uncapped year.

Well, I guess Tebow may not be helping their "locker room issues" (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8239546/new-york-jets-players-brawl-fans-team-practice). 

Tebows effectiveness dropped through the floor as the season progressed. They lost 3 straight at the end of the season. When you know his gimmick, it's easy to plan against with a halfway decent defense. Denver's D helped mask the Tebow crap quite a lot.

When you look at how Elway dealt with him it's easy to see what his thoughts about him were.  Sure they got Manning, but if they had their man they wouldn't have been looking for Manning.  I look for Tebow to be out of the league or a tight end in less than 2 years. 

That would have to have been a great man. You pretty much try to get Manning no matter what. Orton was a good QB that got a bad rap for a team that was filled with issues. Unless you have one of the few quarterbacks that are upper tier. Elway handled everything really well, honestly. I was impressed. Hell, Manning was impressed with how things were being handled too, which is why he ended up there. (Broncos fan btw.)

Are you referring to goal line stuff or in general?  I agree with the latter completely, as any sane person would, Tebow as an every-down QB is a car crash in slow motion.

The numbers may back up both cases though, I haven't looked at them in an age.

I think they'll use Tebow for stunts and trick plays.  Jets be crafty! *snerk*

Just looking at some simple stats. He was never OMG AMAZING scoring machine, he just had thrilling moments. People seem to think he was scoring TDs left and right, which he simply wasn't. The defense generally would keep the game within striking distance. When they faced a solid defense and offense is when they were exposed.

WEEK	PASS TDS	RUSH TDS	W/L
7	2	0	W
8	1	0	L
9	2	0	W
10	1	1	W
11	0	1	W
12	1	0	W
13	2	0	W
14	1	0	W
15	0	2	L
16	1	1	L
17	0	0	L

I would say that 80% of the teams considered if they could get Manning at least on some level.  I like the Broncos too, although I don't really have a "team" in the league.  

Looks like Cleveland is going with Weeden as their starter.  I'm expecting great results.   :grin:

There's about 5 QB's in the league you would never consider trying to replace with Peyton Manning this offseason. Tebow sure as fuck ain't one of them. He was a goddamn trainwreck as a QB who only won so many games on defense and trickeration. That Denver D was fucking SCARY good and will likely be better this year. Their offense stunk on ice and it wasn't just from Tebow's 47% completion percentage. Pittsburgh got caught in the playoffs overplaying the Tebow factor in OT with a defense that underachieved and a QB that was hurt all season long.

I'll point to 3 games that let you & me know Tebow wasn't an NFL QB.

#1 - The 40-14 drubbing by the (at that point) hapless Buffalo Bills. Buffalo lost 8 of their last 9 games, but they beat the Broncos because Tebow threw 3 picks and the special teams was awful. Starting with the 2nd quarter, up by 7 mind you, the Broncos went 4&out, 4&out, 4&out, 4&out, TD pass, 4&out, INT, 4&out, Pick6, fumble6, INT, turnover on downs.

#2 - The 3-7 loss to the Chiefs the next week. The Chiefs were a walking wounded barely functional team by the latter half of the season, and they only scored one TD for the entire game, yet they still beat Tim Tebow. He only went 6-22 with 50 net yards, a pick, and a fumble. Were it not for McGahee rushing his ass off and burning clock, they wouldn't have even gotten the FG they did. Denver controlled the ball for 33m and got 3 points. That's wretched. ANYTHING from Tebow would have won that game.

#3 - The 45-10 asskicking by Detroit. Tebow passed for 117 net yards, got sacked 7 times, threw a pick, and would have gotten skunked if the Lions didn't let up a garbage time TD in the 4th. In their first possession, Tebow had the ball at Detroit's 21 and a fresh set of downs. The ball never moved and they settled for a FG. That was the best chance they got until the Lions were done with them. Tebow threw a pick six that went 100 yards from end zone to end zone in that game. He had a sack fumble TD in that game. There were over 7 times they went 4&out. It was unequivocally the worst QB performance I've ever seen out of anyone playing the game.

You forget to add that in #1, the Bills defense was pretty wretched all last year, especially at getting turnovers. It was so bad, they overpaid for Mario Williams to get him to help out. And in #3, you are forgetting that the Lions also had a notoriously shitty secondary last year. For #2, though, the Chiefs couldn't score any points but their defense actually gave Green Bay their only regular season loss last year - so they weren't totally as bad as the other 2 examples. But yeah, Tebow sucks.

Also, hey Way? How you like them T.O. apples (http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp12/story/_/id/8240307/terrell-owens-signs-contract-seattle-seahawks)?

God, the Seahawks are set to absolutely self-destruct this year.

Yeah but Jesus.

Fucker is as old as me and runs a 40 in 4.45? holy shit that guy is still a freak.

Yeah, he ought to go well with Tarvaris Jackson.   :grin:

They signed him for the league minimum. Not exactly a terrible call given apparently how he performed in his workout. Also, it looks as if Matt Flynn will be the starter right now in Seattle. I would not be surprised if T Jax is up for trade by the time the season starts.

T.O. is locker room poison, though.  Has he ever been on a team where he didn't bad-mouth his own quarterback?

Only if he was crying while praising them, first.

Maybe the Niners when Steve Young was QB?

Who gives a shit, just look at who is coaching and you'll find your answer. (P.T. Barnum is getting jealous up in heaven or whatever his spirit ended up)

This. Also, I do think it would be awesome if Carroll can keep him under control and productive as that would bring Sea's WR corps to a decent yet hilarious level. They would then have Doug Baldwin, Golden Tate, Sidney Rice, TO, and Braylon Edwards and all of them combined are dirt cheap but have potential to be productive with a decent QB throwing to them imo (which Flynn potentially is a decent or better QB, at least an ugparde of Jackson). They have improved their QB to Flynn, Lynch can have another good year which will help the passing game's potential, and they upgraded TE and now have a tandem of Zach Miller and Kellen Winslow

I think outside of Flynn and Lynch, they could very well be the best offense per dollar spent :why_so_serious: Granted that isn't saying much, but it would be a fun stat to compare teams with

Half those guys will be hurt by the end of preseason.

Right. But, if he proves to be a problem, they can cut him and not worry about it.

I look forward to seeing T.O.'s ego fight with Sidney Rice's.

And Braylon Edwards. And Kellen Winslow Jr.

Unless they complete 75 passes a game and the ball is spread around, there will be a lot of sandy vaginas and pouting. I sincerely hope it all blows up in a giant mushroom cloud of hate and angst and ego that leads to Pete Carroll being strung up by his testicles and beaten all the way out of town.

To sum up- FUCK PETE CARROLL FOREVER.

Maybe Braylon and Kellen can ride their motorcycles together?  :why_so_serious:

I totally forgot you got Winslow AND Edwards on that team. The over/under on fights at practice has got to be ridiculous.

Bet they don't get as rough as the Jets practices...

IKNOWRITE????  :awesome_for_real:

I'm fucking loving this Rex Ryan Shcaudenfraude as his entire team just dissolves into fucking pissing matches. The best part is that Santonio Holmes hasn't even started throwing hissy fits yet.

Shockingly, Elvis Dumervil has been cleared of all charges (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8244359/denver-broncos-elvis-dumervil-charged-road-rage-case) related to his gun waving incident.  I'm a little shocked, considering all the gun nonsense that has been going on the US lately. 

I'm gong to enjoy watching WAP's head explode if the Seahawks make the playoffs again under Carroll. :awesome_for_real:

So how long do we wait to start doing our Preseason Predictions? Week 3 of the Preseason?

Pete Carroll has the most fucked up nose that I've ever seen. 

Now that SF is legit this is a lot more unlikely than it used to be. I have taken steps to voodoo doll SF though- I kept their defense as one of my 3 keepers in one of my FF leagues. They should get torched regularly.

Our schedule is roughly a billion times harder this year, so yeah. Also there's no way Alex Smith throws only 5 INTs this time around. I'm a reasonably strong advocate of him being actually pretty good, but that was a statistical anomaly even if he IS good.

SF's strengh of schedule is 26th in the league.  :oh_i_see:

Last year it was 30th.

For the most part you play the same teams.. however.... Dolphis get Cowboys and Panthers while Niners get Giants and Saints.  :awesome_for_real:

That being said, Seahawks have the harder SOS. http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/56896/2012-nfl-strength-of-schedule

I find it incredibly fucked up that the two easiest SoS's are GREEN BAY AND NEW ENGLAND  :mob:

I don't know about SF having a much tougher schedule than Sea or even compared to last year's SF schedule. Since they're in the same division they play almost all the same opponents. The difference here is thate SF has to play a N.O. team without it's head coach, quite likely without one of it's best defensive players (on an already not very impressive Def), and with the stand-in head coach only having returned from being suspended not too far before SF plays NO. The other team SF plays which Sea doesn't is NYG. Regular season NYG are hit or miss, who knows what side of the 8-8 NYG (who have lost players in both free agency and quite likely to injury at the rate they're going). Both NO and NYG could cause problems

On the flipside, Sea has to play a Car team which in 2011 was no where near the shit team it was in 2010, and is much improved even further for 2012, and then Dal which similar to NYG you don't know what you're getting in that match.

Both Sea and SF have improved, but not enough improvement in Sea to take over the division as long as Smith keeps interceptions under 10 - given his receiving corps and addition to the backfield this shouldn't be too difficult. I do agree that 5 int is an anomaly though



fake edit - bah while typing this up sickrubik and Paelos posted. Looking at SoS rating now

True edit - not fully agreeing with the SoS, though NE does appear to have a really nice schedule

The difference between SF and Sea is.. well, they play each other.  :why_so_serious:

To clarify, I meant our schedule this year was harder than our schedule last year, not that it was harder than Seattle's.

Playing shit is still playing shit. Your schedule is a breeze.

I will say one thing. Looking at that SOS ranking thing... I just depressed myself.

Poor Browns and Rams :(  That's a tough row to hoe. 

Division champions should have a winning record or they forfeit their playoff slot to an extra wildcard.  These garage divisions are a disgrace.

I agree but it'll never happen.

SOS formulation or not, playing in the NFC West with even a half-decent team should net you at least 4 wins. That division did get better this year, I must admit, but I don't think it's that much better. The real cream puff division is the AFC South.

The NFC East and NFC West were both equally awful last year. It's just that the Giants were better at the end because they weren't injured. Thing is, the NFC East has improved a lot, and the NFC West hasn't.

The AFC South is the absolute shitpile of the NFL. It's just so not even close.

They should be relegated to the Independence Bowl. 

They should just have a selection committee of totally unbiased voters select the teams they feel are worthy to be in the playoffs based on their body of work and the opponents they played.   :why_so_serious:

I see what you did there.

You could have SB Nation do it.

Ah, Giants. I hope Eli properly stretches his face muscles before games.

Preseason games start for realz tonight. Enjoy the first series before all the starters are sipping Gatorade and wearing headphones.

Pats/Saints was on last night.  Not terribly exciting and the coverage was the shitty Boston-market sports media (I think).

Chandler Jones was a bright spot, and he looked pretty fucking good.... it didn't sink in until they showed him on the sidelines and I realized who he was.   His brothers are Arthur Jones (DT on the Ravens) and Jon Jones (UFC LHW champ).  Talk about ridiculous athletic talent in that family!

The backup refs for the NFL last night called the Atlanta team "Arizona" twice during penalties.  :facepalm:

Because I know everyone here cares so much about the Tampa Bay Bucs.  :awesome_for_real: I was wondering if anyone else had caught some of the local commercials showing Schiano as a back-to-basics coach who values hard work and upstanding citizenry.

Imagining a Seahawks commercial got me to thinking about this:  I was wondering if their local sales folks would be pushing Caroll walking through a landfill and picking up garbage (I'm looking squarely at you, K2) for his team.

Nah... Maybe more sorting through a thrift store filled with misfit toys.

Well the first preseason game for the Cowboys is a dumpster fire. Glad we're getting this out of the way (hopefully).

It will get worse. I thoroughly expect the Cowboys to have a better defense this year, while their offense implodes majestically.

Guesses as to how long it takes for SEA to take a flyer on Ochocinco?

I'm not sure they can unless word comes out he didn't do it.

The problem with the fact he hit his wife is that the NFL, several top players, and the President of the United States have recently been touting an anti-domestic violence campaign this season during games. His timing for doing this couldn't be worse.

As long as your productivity is down... *coughs*Dez Bryant*coughs*

What a fucking asshole.  Ever since "Meshawn" Johnson got to the league receivers have been a bunch of fucking primadonna twatfaces.  I say fire his ass and ban him from the league (even if it is hypocritical).  I'd ban Bryant as well-  he's a fucking moron. 

If you ban Bryant, it's not hypocritical.

And it's nothing to do with receivers, people of all positions seem to get arrested on a regular basis for stupid shit.

Large difference between Bryant and Johnson.

Bryant's mom denies that any family violence occured. Johnson's wife is filing charges.

That's what she says now but that's not what happened at the time. She's just being a mother and protecting her son.

Yeah, we very likely will see similar stuff in a few months for Johnson. It's quite seriously only because Bryant's production is greater than Johnson's. It's BS, but output overrides any sort of issue like that.

They should ban Johnson even if they don't do anything with Bryant.  I don't care if it's hypcritical.  Get as much bad o ut as you can.

Be that as it may, it's an important legal distinction between the two cases.

Ground Emerges As Tim Tebow's Favorite Target (http://www.theonion.com/articles/ground-emerges-as-tim-tebows-favorite-target,29210/)


 :drillf:

That's a supurbly done article.  :awesome_for_real:

That's just brilliant.

So true story.  I was reading this while I was in a public bathroom.

There's something awkward about laughing your ass off while in a stall.

Thanks for this.   :drill: :drillf: :drill:

In other news, olympic 4x100 silver medallist Jeff Demps has signed with the Pats

Watching some film of him; he is fucking rapid. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW4X664GRt0&feature=player_embedded)

That was against Kentucky so it doesn't count.

Haha.  Apparently DaSean Jackson didn't give a full effort last year (http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp12/story/_/id/8285546/desean-jackson-philadelphia-eagles-give-full-effort-2011) because he didn't want to get hurt in a contract year.  They should cut his ass.

Addendum-  also excited to see how Locker does with the Titans.  I like him as a player and I have a feeling he can do more with a decent team around him than he could show in Warshinton. 

Yet another reason not to pay wide receivers.

What a fucking douche.

Agreed.  Cut him.  Also, it's now official, the JAKE LOCKER era begins in Tennessee!

*crickets*  Anyone?  Hello?  Is this on?

There is no Hasselbeck there is only THE HURT LOCKER.

Hmm nickname needs work.

Jags to replace the Rams as the London home team until 2016 (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000052627/article/shad-khan-roger-goodell-announce-jaguars-london-deal?module=HP11_headline_stack)

It also looks like the NFL is pushing hard for two games next year too; which as a native I am quite happy about.

I think it would be rather cool to have an NFL team in London.  I'm not sure about the logistics of it though. 

The NFL ambassador to the world is the Jacksonville Jaguars?

Let me be the first to apologize to England for this decision. Also, it gets my bullshit senses tingling that they want that franchise in Jacksonville long term.

Better than the Rams!

At this rate, am I wrong in thinking there is no way Vick survives this season?  

I think I'd rather watch Bradford than anyone on the Jags... even MJD. 

Vick is going to be turned into a pile of quivering brown and bloody goo by the third game.

Yes, but only because he may not make it out of the preseason.

Best job in the world? Vick's backup. You get trotted out 3 or 4 times over the course of two seasons when he coughs up a lung, then get traded and signed to a gigantic contract you can never live up to before disappearing into obscurity with your guaranteed money.

Fuck having a team permanently in London. It is shitty enough on West Coast teams to go back East and play games at 10AM body clock time. Subtract another 5 hours from that? No fucking way.

Isn't that why the games are played at night, so the timing isn't really an issue? I don't know how sporting events are in the UK, but I can't imagine there being too much issue with 8 night games within a couple months span (and possibly up to 11 if somehow the Uk team gets homefield in 3 rounds of the playoffs to continue making that a non-issue. I'd guess they'd definitely want all night games in the UK not only for the US to see the game within normal viewing times, but also for higher advertising dollars in both the Uk and US since you know the NFL will try to squeeze out as much as they can from every market possible.

Clearly the best solution is to make every team play at least one game in London. 32 teams, 16 games. London gets a full season without needing a franchise.

 :grin: