NFL 2012

[Paelos]

I dunno how overrated he is.

He's about 30th in the league in y/carry. 20th in yards per game. There's a laundry list of guys you'd rather put in that position.

[sickrubik]

I dunno how overrated he is.

He's about 30th in the league in y/carry. 20th in yards per game. There's a laundry list of guys you'd rather put in that position.

Yup! I was far from saying he was good. I just don't know anyone that has ever been huge on him.

[shiznitz]

I wish I had a good retort.  But I don't.  It is going to be tough next 2-3 years.

Time to change your profile pic?  Maybe?

Not a bad idea, actually.

[Nebu]

Question for the pundits: Why don't the Jets just play Tebow.  If he wins, great.  If he loses, it won't hurt the season and it will shut up the fans. 

Either way = win.

[Bungee]

Question for the pundits: Why don't the Jets just play Tebow.  If he wins, great.  If he loses, it won't hurt the season and it will shut up the fans. 

Either way = win.

He's hurt.

[Nebu]

He's hurt.

I do read the news.  I meant when healthy.  He'll be good to go next week and doubling down on Sanchez is fuckstupid.

Maybe they could make a move for Alex Smith?

[sickrubik]

If he loses, it won't hurt the season and it will shut up the fans. 

Ahahahahahahahahahahah ahha hahahahahahhaah aaaaa hahahahaah.

There are Denver fans that still insist that the broncos will be better off with Tebow. Tebow fans never learn and never shut up. It literally becomes "everyone else fucked up, not our lord and savior!"

[HaemishM]

I dunno how overrated he is.

He's about 30th in the league in y/carry. 20th in yards per game. There's a laundry list of guys you'd rather put in that position.

Yup! I was far from saying he was good. I just don't know anyone that has ever been huge on him.

After the playoffs in Sanchez's first year, everybody was like HE'S GOING TO BE HUGE!!!! They got rid of Thomas Jones to make him a feature back and he's never lived up to it.

[Paelos]

Question for the pundits: Why don't the Jets just play Tebow.  If he wins, great.  If he loses, it won't hurt the season and it will shut up the fans. 

Either way = win.

It's a pride thing right now. Rex Ryan knows he's toast after this disaster of a season, so he has no reason to kiss the owner's ass in the hopes he stays employed. Woody Johnson loved the idea of Tebow as a draw, and he has no love for Sanchez. He wants him to play, and Rex hates Tebow's guts. Rex is just lording it over Woody, daring him to fire him today. Woody will never do that. He fired Mangini a day after the season was over. He traded Herm Edwards after the 2005 season was over. He's never fired a head coach mid-season while owner of the Jets, although Rex is really trying hard to make him pull the trigger.

[sickrubik]

He's definitely going to be fine for now. Jets are still within reach of a playoff spot... they're not THAT bad record wise, and they have a decent rest of the season to play.

[HaemishM]

They won't start Tebow because he would be WORSE.

Denver had a running game, and it appears they actually had decent receivers when the QB can get them the ball. They also had a good defense.

The New York Jets have none of those things.

[Rasix]

Once you open the Tebow box, it's pretty hard to shut it.   Your season now rests on the very broad shoulders of your hybrid halfback that can't throw a spiral.  I hope you have an easy schedule the rest of the way.

Guy does have a certain magic, however.  How else can you go 5/12 with 3 ints, 2 fumbles lost and still win?

[sickrubik]

Guy does have a certain magic, however.  How else can you go 5/12 with 3 ints, 2 fumbles lost and still win?

Having a defense that allows you to keep within striking range.

[Paelos]

He's definitely going to be fine for now. Jets are still within reach of a playoff spot... they're not THAT bad record wise, and they have a decent rest of the season to play.

I disagree, the Jets are 5-7 and a total train wreck. It would take a small miracle for them to make the post-season. They can't score, they couldn't move the ball against a very bad Arizona team with Sanchez, and they are 2 back of the playoffs with 4 to go. Even if they win all 4, they have to hope both Pittsburgh and the Bengals lose 3 games, because you don't have H2H on the Steelers, and the kicker is that Pitt and Cincy play each other. On top of that, the Jets can hope the Colts lose out, and that Miami or Buffalo don't outplay them.

It's not happening. My guess is they go 8-8, same record as last year. That won't sit well with Woody at all.

[sickrubik]

He's definitely going to be fine for now. Jets are still within reach of a playoff spot... they're not THAT bad record wise, and they have a decent rest of the season to play.

I disagree, the Jets are 5-7 and a total train wreck. It would take a small miracle for them to make the post-season. They can't score, they couldn't move the ball against a very bad Arizona team with Sanchez, and they are 2 back of the playoffs with 4 to go. Even if they win all 4, they have to hope both Pittsburgh and the Bengals lose 3 games, because you don't have H2H on the Steelers, and the kicker is that Pitt and Cincy play each other. On top of that, the Jets can hope the Colts lose out, and that Miami or Buffalo don't outplay them.

It's not happening. My guess is they go 8-8, same record as last year. That won't sit well with Woody at all.

Actually we agree. I don't think they will get there, but they still have a CHANCE of getting there. There is no reason an owner would toss a coach out in this position.

Jets are a terrible team.

The "decent" was only in the context of their schedule.

Jets are terrible. Tebow is terrible. Shonne Green is terrible.

[Nebu]

They won't start Tebow because he would be WORSE.

I agree.  Still, it's the fans that fund the team.  When the season is in the can, I'd show them how wrong they are just to put the whole thing to rest... best part, Tebow will suck enough to get them a higher draft pick!

[sickrubik]

They won't start Tebow because he would be WORSE.

I agree.  Still, it's the fans that fund the team.  When the season is in the can, I'd show them how wrong they are just to put the whole thing to rest... best part, Tebow will suck enough to get them a higher draft pick!

IT DOESN'T EVER PUT IT TO REST.

The fans will blame everyone else. If he does it, he loses his job if only because of publicity/blame for Tebow sucking. It's never Tebow's fault. Ever.

The Jets are a fucking disaster. Tebow is a fucking albatross.

The starting QB for the Jets next season will likely be someone like Alex Smith or Matt Flynn. I fully expect Tebow to be straight up CUT. Enjoy the CFL, Jesus.

[Nebu]

As I said earlier, I wouldn't cut Tebow.  The guy has an amazing work ethic and some serious physical gifts.  I'd make him a TE.  He would excel at that position once you slathered his hands with stick'em. 

[Paelos]

Actually we agree. I don't think they will get there, but they still have a CHANCE of getting there. There is no reason an owner would toss a coach out in this position.

Perhaps, but he fired Mangini off a 9-7 season. Granted, that was about the Jets going 8-3 and then choking down the stretch. Still, I think two years in a row of completely mismanaging the assets might get some hackles up.

Does McElroy have herpes or something? It's like everyone seems to forget he's on the team, or even thinks he's worth a discussion. He's a brilliant kid with a decent arm. I'd at least put somebody smart back there who makes good decisions.

[sickrubik]

As I said earlier, I wouldn't cut Tebow.  The guy has an amazing work ethic and some serious physical gifts.  I'd make him a TE.  He would excel at that position once you slathered his hands with stick'em.  

So, you're saying he is terrible at TE too.

Plus, that ain't going to happen. Nobody wants Tebow after what he did in Denver. There were only two teams that showed ANY interest. The Jets and the Jags. Both wanted him for publicity/sales. He's done in the NFL.

Perhaps, but he fired Mangini off a 9-7 season. Granted, that was about the Jets going 8-3 and then choking down the stretch. Still, I think two years in a row of completely mismanaging the assets might get some hackles up.

Mangini got fired AFTER they missed the playoffs.

The Jets are still, tecnically, in the hunt. No owner is going to fire a coach then.

[Nebu]

I'm saying that Tebow isn't equipped to be an NFL QB, but is equipped to be an NFL player.

Combine Results

6'3", 240lbs, 4.7 40 yd, and a 38" vertical.  That's a good NFL TE.  He also has a working knowledge of how an offense runs.  

Hate the guy all you want.  He has some physical gifts AND a work ethic.

[Paelos]

The Jets are still, tecnically, in the hunt. No owner is going to fire a coach then.

I see you point, now. I think we both agree that he's not going to fire him mid-season. Do you think he fires him after the season?

[sickrubik]

The Jets are still, tecnically, in the hunt. No owner is going to fire a coach then.

I see you point, now. I think we both agree that he's not going to fire him mid-season. Do you think he fires him after the season?

If they miss the playoffs, yes. These season has been a PR disaster for them and I think their hands are tied. I don't think they should fire him, really, but I think they do.

I'm saying that Tebow isn't equipped to be an NFL QB, but is equipped to be an NFL player.

Combine Results

6'3", 240lbs, 4.7 40 yd, and a 38" vertical.  That's a good NFL TE.  He also has a working knowledge of how an offense runs. 

Hate the guy all you want.  He has some physical gifts AND a work ethic.

I don't actually hate the guy... well.. I do dislike his attitude towards certain social topics, but... He's a great athlete, but he does not have what it takes to be an NFL player... yet, maybe.

A good TE has to catch. A great TE can block/catch. However, you yourself said he would need stickum. That means he can't catch. Meaning, he sucks at the NFL.

[Ingmar]

Question for the pundits: Why don't the Jets just play Tebow.  If he wins, great.  If he loses, it won't hurt the season and it will shut up the fans.  

Either way = win.

Tebow winning is a bad outcome in a long-term sense. Everyone with any sense is close to certain he will never put together sustained success as an NFL QB; if you put him in and he gets lucky you just signed yourself up for a bunch more failure or fan unrest down the road. The only "win" is to bury him and then cut him in the offseason on a day when the Yankees do something stupid.

EDIT: As for the TE stuff, why would someone burn a roster spot trying to see if he could maybe have success at another position? Shitloads of TEs come out with moderate size and speed numbers like his every year, I'd bet. Maybe not as fast, but with actual experience blocking, catching, running routes, etc. And far less distracting.

[Paelos]

I do dislike his attitude towards certain social topics, but...

That commercial with he and his mom where she's like, "If we had an abortion, we wouldn't have Tim." Every Georgia fan marked that date in time down. If we ever invent a time machine, some Dawg fan is heading back there first.

EDIT: Correction, if some Georgia Tech guy invents a time machine and we steal it...

[sickrubik]

Hell, if we're basing this off his physical stats, make him a pass rushing defensive end!

[Nebu]

Hell, if we're basing this off his physical stats, make him a pass rushing defensive end!

His bench wasn't listed, implying he lacks the strength for it.

He could block a LB, but I doubt he could deal with an O-line man.

[Stewie]

I'm saying that Tebow isn't equipped to be an NFL QB, but is equipped to be an NFL player.

Combine Results

6'3", 240lbs, 4.7 40 yd, and a 38" vertical.  That's a good NFL TE.  He also has a working knowledge of how an offense runs. 

Hate the guy all you want.  He has some physical gifts AND a work ethic.

All you have to do is watch hard knocks from this year. Miami had a guy that had great "measurables" trying to make the team as a TE  he was heavily focused on by hard knocks. The reality is that blocking in the nfl is hard and if you haven't been doing it for quite a while you probably aren't going to be good at it. Tebow would most likely fall into that category. Hell if he cant even fix his throwing motion what hope is there that he will be able to learn proper blocking technique?

[K9]

Roger Goodell mooting getting rid of kickoffs

I'm not sure what to make of this. Kickoffs can produce some of the most exciting plays in any game, but the risk vs reward seems heavily skewed towards risk, and touchbacks are just boring.

I quite like the alternative idea put forward by Greg Schiano

After a touchdown or field goal, instead of kicking off, a team would get the ball on its own 30-yard line, where it's fourth and 15. The options are either to go for it and try to retain possession or punt. If you go for it and fall short, of course, the opposing team would take over with good field position. In essence, a punt replaces the kickoffs.

You'd probably need to tinker with the length and field position, but this could be a fun compromise, and better for players since as far as I am aware there are relatively fewer injuries on punts than kickoffs.

[Nebu]

The reality is that blocking in the nfl is hard and if you haven't been doing it for quite a while you probably aren't going to be good at it. Tebow would most likely fall into that category. Hell if he cant even fix his throwing motion what hope is there that he will be able to learn proper blocking technique?

Very true.  I'm just saying that you've spent a gob of money on the guy.  You might as well try to find a way to put him on the field before his contract runs out.  Worst case, he's a 3rd string TE and a 4th string QB until you release him.

I think they are trying to pawn him off on another team as a backup QB and figure that is how they will get the best value for him.  I was speaking more as a usefullness point rather than a $$$ view.

[Nebu]

I think removing kick offs is a good thing.  Kickoff and punt is how I got most of my field time in college and largely how I received so many concussions.  It's really a very dangerous part of the game.  I imagine that it's still in the game because fans like it and the players on special teams are replaceable cogs. 

Owners would love to get rid of it as it would allow them to add depth to their offensive and defensive rosters without having to worry about kickoff performance as a factor.

[Shannow]

Going for it on the 4th and 15 would certainly make it exciting. I wonder though if that's easier than onside kicking it (well if you are playing the San Deigo Chargers it would be). Definate advantage to the teams with the good quarterbacks?

[HaemishM]

Getting rid of kickoffs is something I'd abhor... but you know what I hate more? Watching some guy get paid above league minimum to kick a ball into the fucking endzone sandwiched in between two VERY LONG commercial breaks. Moving the kickoff spot back to the 35 fucking sucked ass. It's made returns so few and kickoffs so boring I'd rather everybody just started on the goddamn 20. If you remove kickoffs, what happens with onside kicks? Good luck trying to win games from 10 points back now.

As for Tebow, they should have just made him a goddamn halfback. We KNOW he can run the ball. Everything else is debatable.

[sickrubik]

Hell, if we're basing this off his physical stats, make him a pass rushing defensive end!

His bench wasn't listed, implying he lacks the strength for it.

He could block a LB, but I doubt he could deal with an O-line man.

Apparently I should have put some green text.

re: kicks. I'm not sure how putting more players directly in harms way solves the safety issue, which seems to be the crux of the change.

[shiznitz]

The Jets might make the playoffs, but that won't mean they are good team.  Stranger shit has happened in the NFL before.  But who cares?  If they squeak into the post-season, we all know they won't be there for long.