NFL 2012

[ghost]

Hey, if all rich people were like this trickle down economics might work 

VY is a turd. 

[HaemishM]

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/sports/Vince-Young-Broke-Out-of-NFL-170334706.html

Vince Young's broke. Raise your hand if you DIDN'T see this one coming.

"I would just say that Vince needs a job," said Trey Dolezal, Young's attorney, when asked to give a general assessment of his client's finances.

Good thing he's got a degree... OH.

[Paelos]

This is my favorite part:

Peoples claims in the countersuit that every decision he made was approved by Keith Young. And he calls Vince Young's unwillingness to accept responsibility "a common occurrence ... as (former Titans coach) Jeff Fisher, (Texas coach) Mack Brown, numerous NFL executives, coaches, teammates, scouts, girlfriends and illegitimate children will attest."

OH SNAP, SON!

[cmlancas]

No one else finds these stories sad?  I know we can't save people from themselves, but I'm a little saddened by it.

I legitimately think he has an undiagnosed (or under-realized) mental illness.

[Paelos]

I feel sad for the kids that grow up without a dad because their father refuses to acknowledge them, and their mother uses them as a meal-ticket.

Other than that, no. There are too many success stories in the NFL of people not falling into the trap of their own self-indulgence.

[Malakili]

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/sports/Vince-Young-Broke-Out-of-NFL-170334706.html

Vince Young's broke. Raise your hand if you DIDN'T see this one coming.

 

[01101010]

I feel sad for the kids that grow up without a dad because their father refuses to acknowledge them, and their mother uses them as a meal-ticket.

Other than that, no. There are too many success stories in the NFL of people not falling into the trap of their own self-indulgence.

Such as this pretty nice story about Kitna.  http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/49057206/

[Paelos]

Thanks for that story about Kitna, that's very cool and amazing work by a guy who gets it.

[cmlancas]

Thanks for that story about Kitna, that's very cool and amazing work by a guy who gets it.

Heartwarming stories in the NFL thread?  F13's gone soft!

Always liked Kitna.  Thought he'd have been a good fit for Tampa Bay after Brad Johnson.

[ghost]

F13's gone soft!

It's definitely a lot softer than it was 3 years ago.

[Ingmar]

No one else finds these stories sad?  I know we can't save people from themselves, but I'm a little saddened by it.

I legitimately think he has an undiagnosed (or under-realized) mental illness.

I tend to agree with you in general; every once in a while though you do end up with a guy who is just an utter twat. Don't know enough about this guy to know if he qualifies really as I never really paid attention to him.

[ghost]

Vince Young is an utter twat. 

[WayAbvPar]

So maybe that leaked Wonderlic test result for VY was a bit more accurate than anyone wanted to admit...

[Ingmar]

Men's nipples get tabloid NSFW star cover things now?

[ghost]

Men's nipples get tabloid NSFW star cover things now?

I've heard that the actual sight of his nipples will cause women to rob banks and hijack fancy cars. 

[ghost]

Interesting article on the state of reffing affairs in the NFL on ESPN.

The perception seems to be flags are flying indiscriminately. And yet:

•  The average number of penalties per game is down from 15.2 to 14.7.

•  On player-safety calls, such as roughing the passer; unnecessary roughness, including hitting defenseless players; and face-mask or horse-collar violations, the calls are nearly even: 75 this year, 74 last.

•  Instant replay reviews are way up, an increase of 16. But the percentage of reversals is way down: 23 this year out of 62 as opposed to 21 of 46 in 2011.

•  Defensive pass interference and illegal contact penalties are up, but only from 48 to 51, surprising because of the hubbub raised on the airwaves about the lack of such calls.

Very interesting.....

[sickrubik]

that's assuming that those calls are all good calls, which is what the real concern about the officials is/was.

[ghost]

that's assuming that those calls are all good calls, which is what the real concern about the officials is/was.

There has been a fairly low level of reversals on calls that have been reviewed and they seem to be reviewing more calls than last year.  

And I'm not going to argue that the officiating has been good-  I've seen some stinker calls, but maybe it's not as bad as we think?

[Paelos]

Those stats are misleading because they don't pass the eye test, or the situational conditions of reffing in these games

1 - The number of penalties is down because they are calling less on the home team. The refs are intimidated. Take a look at judgement penalties (holding, PI, etc) and look at the splits.
2 - Player safety calls are pretty black and white. It's like a false start. The only one that's not is roughing the passer, and that's been pounded by the league that ANYTHING after a second counts.
3 - Replays are way up. Yeah and so is time to make calls. They didn't mention that. Also, reversals are going to be down because there are MANDATORY replays on everything now. Not just coach challenges. Some obvious scoring plays are getting reviewed as a precaution. That's throwing the numbers off.
4 - PI penalties are slightly up. Again, check the splits home/road. Also, consider the fact that players are testing the refs. They are going after players harder, and you can see it on film if you watch the games. It's the substitute teacher mentality in the secondary. They want to see how far they can take it. Also, they assume that these PI calls have any level of consistency. I can assure you after watching some of the major national games, they don't.

[ghost]

Actually, if you read the article they did discuss point 3 a little.

What the fans seem most annoyed with is the lack of pace to games, most notably Monday night's win by the Falcons over the Broncos that dragged on past midnight. That's about the only area where, statistically, the replacements have been far inferior.

Average time of game is about six minutes longer in 2012 than in 2011, and with only one overtime game in the opening two weeks -- same as last year -- extra periods can't be blamed. More likely, the time it takes to properly administrate penalties throughout the game is the cause.

My concern comes from the number of calls that are clearly influenced by players "calling for a flag" or calls that were so blatantly missed that were added into (or not added) into the total.  I saw several flags in Monday's game that should not have been thrown and quite a few that should have been. 

There's also a chance that some of the non-televised games are reffed better and we're just getting the sludge.  Of course you may have the NFL package to see more games and have a better opinion of what is going on overall.  It stands to reason that some of these referees are better than others. 

[sickrubik]

My concern comes from the number of calls that are clearly influenced by players "calling for a flag" or calls that were so blatantly missed that were added into (or not added) into the total.  I saw several flags in Monday's game that should not have been thrown and quite a few that should have been. 

There's also a chance that some of the non-televised games are reffed better and we're just getting the sludge.  Of course you may have the NFL package to see more games and have a better opinion of what is going on overall.  It stands to reason that some of these referees are better than others. 

Your first sentence seems to side with the "worse reffing". If a player calls for a flag, and the ref is using that as his reasoning and does it, that's bad. I actually don't that the players are not getting flags just because they asked. The referring has been sloppy due to pacing and not knowing team names, etc. It's just sloppy, and that could just be attributed to nerves and shit.

[Paelos]

I totalled the penalties last week in all the games.

115 road, 98 home.

54% to 46%, an 8% spread in the favor of the home team. Unshockingly, the home teams won 14 of the 16 games.

[ghost]

Oh, I definitely think the reffing is worse.  And I figured Paelos would have a ton of figures to show that it is.  My assumption is that ESPN is trying to keep people watching because they know the problem is there and is effecting viewership.  

I totalled the penalties last week in all the games.

115 road, 98 home.

54% to 46%, an 8% spread in the favor of the home team. Unshockingly, the home teams won 14 of the 16 games.

Do you have the means to compare this to last year? 

[Paelos]

I do, actually the spread is the same 54% in the prior year. Which sort of shocked me. Home teams only won 11 of the 16 games though.

The difference is that in 2011 with the regular refs in Week 2. It was 97-83, which means that 33 more penalties (18%) were called in Week 2. Also, the numbers of week 2 in 2011 were dramatically skewed by one outlier game, the Cards and Redskins game in which the road Cards were penalized 10 times to the Skins 3. The largest road split in the current year was 4 on the road, 3 at home. In the 2011 season it was 7 on the road, 3 at home.

[sickrubik]

Basically, ESPN is terrible. Shocker.

[naum]

Those statistics do not address the "quality" of the calls, merely that they hit the proper "quota"; not that a "quota" is the proper prescription, but that the totals approximate.

OTOH, there is an official huddle-up on just about every other play, and throw in auto-reviews on all turnovers and scoring plays, and that is making for game times of 3.5 hours+. Perhaps the NFL overlords will not chafe at the demands of the regular officials, but if the networks begin bitching about time slots, maybe that will get talks moving.

ESPN, NFL Network, networks carrying NFL games, etc.… have to be cognizant of being too critical. It OK to blast certain players or some coaches, but questioning the edifices of the game itself is a ticket to hosting a sports talk show in Kalamazoo or some other hinterland.

[HaemishM]

that's assuming that those calls are all good calls, which is what the real concern about the officials is/was.

Yeah, it's not the number of calls made that's the problem, it's that the calls being made are often VERY VERY BAD, the blatant calls being missed are even worse, the game is dragging significantly because the refs can't even spot the ball and the consistency of the calls has been all over the road.

[Draegan]

Article is crap.

You just have to watch one game and see that the DB's are just raping wide receivers out there like it's 1982 again.

[Ingmar]

Yeah the calls that aren't being made are the real issue I think. Calvin Johnson threw a totally illegal pick on Detroit's last drive in the 49er game that I have a hard time imagining the regular crews missing. And every game has a few of those.

[ghost]

Well, according to those stats you'd have to have about the same number of non-called penalties and shitty penalties because the numbers are similar.  That is entirely possible.  I agree that it doesn't pass the smell test. 

[Paelos]

http://nation.time.com/2012/09/20/nfl-replacement-officials-affecting-vegas-bets/

This is why I'm pissed at the official and the product. It's screwing up my picks! 

[Ingmar]

Well, according to those stats you'd have to have about the same number of non-called penalties and shitty penalties because the numbers are similar.  That is entirely possible.  I agree that it doesn't pass the smell test. 

Yeah, true. And almost certainly there's a bit of confirmation bias going on as well - we expect the reffing to be worse, so we see it being worse in ways that might in reality have been just as bad under the regular refs.

[Tannhauser]

http://nation.time.com/2012/09/20/nfl-replacement-officials-affecting-vegas-bets/

This is why I'm pissed at the official and the product. It's screwing up my picks! 

You may dance around in a top hat, but you sir are a degenerate monkey.

[K9]

Some of y'all really don't have a grasp of probability or statistics.

I suspect the replacements are no worse than the regular refs in practise; people are just falling victim to confirmation bias in as much as they expect the replacements to be worse, so they scrutinise questionable calls harder, and hold these up as proof. If we made blind samples of penalty calls from the last five seasons and tested folk I'd willingly bet that people wouldn't be able to discern the replacements from the real deal.

[HaemishM]

We would when they spot the ball.