NFL 2012

[Trippy]

Hall of Fame-caliber.

[Paelos]

 

[HaemishM]

I call it Mike Martz Syndrome.
Take what the defense gives you is a dirty word to some OC's.

Superbowl 36 says hello.

Are you holding up a game where the winning QB had 145 passing yards as an argument in favor of "elite" QBs throwing downfield all the time? I need some more context here.

I took it to mean that Mike Martz had the downfield QB and lost the game to a team that "took what the defense gave them" and won. And the winning QB only had 145 passing yards that game.

That's why I called it Mike Martz Syndrome. The feeling an OC has when he thinks his QB is elite and so makes the QB throw even when he can't hit the broad side of the barn. See Joe Flacco against KC or Mark Sanchez every 2 out of 3 games.

Sanchez was actually ok tonight. He was still Sanchez so he threw passes in bad places and they got tipped and picked. JJ Watt is a motherfucking beast.

[Paelos]

Gruden calling him JJ Swatt was very apropo.

[HaemishM]

Seriously, Sanchez, try throwing the ball over your head instead of sidearm. Who the fuck are you, Kenny Stabler?

Also, QB's Facebook was fucking hysterical.

[Paelos]

Shocker, USC QB has terrible fundamentals. Film at 11.

I bet Barkley will be fine though. 

[Surlyboi]

Fuck that JJ Watt guy.

At least the Jets didn't totally stink this week.

[Cyrrex]

I thought we had all finally agreed, against our better judgement, that Eli was an elite QB now.  Dude didn't just win two Superbowls, he won them heroically.  And the best thing about Eli is that he gives not a single fuck.

Hyperbole aside, I was the biggest doubter/hater out there, but with the game on the line, I'd take Eli over his brother, even when Peyton was in his prime.  Eli is clutch. 

[01101010]

http://profootballmock.com/?p=5020


Facebook style NFL QBs talking shit amongst themselves.

Under normal circumstances, I don't really care for these...but this one is hilarious. THe RGIII stuff almost made me have to buy a new keyboard. Drink with caution.

[sickrubik]

Hyperbole aside, I was the biggest doubter/hater out there, but with the game on the line, I'd take Eli over his brother, even when Peyton was in his prime.  Eli is clutch. 

"Hyperbole aside... I'd take Eli over Peyton."

Yeah, okay.

[Malakili]

Hyperbole aside, I was the biggest doubter/hater out there, but with the game on the line, I'd take Eli over his brother, even when Peyton was in his prime.  Eli is clutch.  

"Hyperbole aside... I'd take Eli over Peyton."

Yeah, okay.

I think you can make the case.  Eli has two super bowls, and has more road playoff wins of any QB ever.  He is amazing in the 4th quarter, with 22 career 4th quarter comebacks, (including both super bowls).  Bottom line is that as Cyrrex stipulated "with the game on the line" Eli is about the best there is by the numbers.

[sickrubik]

And Peyton has 36. (Fourth Quarter comebacks) Admittedly, Peyton has a few years on Eli.

[Malakili]

And Peyton has 36. Admittedly, Peyton has a few years on Eli.

Not to mention that Peyton is basically a .500 QB in the playoffs and has just one gaming winning drive in the playoffs.  I'm not saying Peyton isn't a hall of famer or something, just that I think it isn't a stretch at all to say that Eli has proven to be a better clutch QB.

[Paelos]

Hyperbole aside, I'll take the Houston or SF defense, let you pick any QB you want, and put you on the 20 with 1:30 left needing a FG to win.

I think the QB love is bullshit. SF dominated Eli in the 4th quarter and OT, and they lost the game because their special teams fumbled the ball back twice to the Giants in short fields.

Conversely, the Giants defense absolute shut down NE. They hadn't been held to less than 20 points in over 13 weeks. You expect me to believe that Eli as a QB was the reason the Giants won that game? What? Because they scored 21 points? If anything I can point to Tines as the difference maker. His 9 points on kicks were the difference between a Super Bowl and being out in the game against SF.

[Nebu]

I think I'd take the Seattle defense.  The defensive backs have some amazing talent.  With a few additions from a solid draft, this could be a dream defense for years to come if they can keep all of the players on the payroll.

[Malakili]

Hyperbole aside, I'll take the Houston or SF defense, let you pick any QB you want, and put you on the 20 with 1:30 left needing a FG to win.

I think the QB love is bullshit. SF dominated Eli in the 4th quarter and OT, and they lost the game because their special teams fumbled the ball back twice to the Giants in short fields.

Conversely, the Giants defense absolute shut down NE. They hadn't been held to less than 20 points in over 13 weeks. You expect me to believe that Eli as a QB was the reason the Giants won that game? What? Because they scored 21 points? If anything I can point to Tines as the difference maker. His 9 points on kicks were the difference between a Super Bowl and being out in the game against SF.

I'm not sure why it has to be one or the other.   The point is, put me on the 20 with a 1:30 left and I need a field goal, who do I want?  Even if I concede that defense is more important, that still doesn't mean I don't want Eli if I can have him.

[ghost]

Both Manning brothers will be in the HOF.

[sickrubik]

And Peyton has 36. Admittedly, Peyton has a few years on Eli.

Not to mention that Peyton is basically a .500 QB in the playoffs and has just one gaming winning drive in the playoffs.  I'm not saying Peyton isn't a hall of famer or something, just that I think it isn't a stretch at all to say that Eli has proven to be a better clutch QB.

The playoff stuff gets especially weird, because unlike the season, it's one and out. And things like opposing defenses ability, and random shit like "HE MISSED IT" means a lot more.

Peyton has more clutch situations and game winning drives. If you want to keep it to playoffs, fine, whatever. But, overall Peyton is still far greater a QB and the stats side with him.

I'm not dissing Eli, he's a great QB.

Both Manning brothers will be in the HOF.

This.

[Paelos]

I'm not sure why it has to be one or the other.   The point is, put me on the 20 with a 1:30 left and I need a field goal, who do I want?  Even if I concede that defense is more important, that still doesn't mean I don't want Eli if I can have him.

My point is that it's a misconception. In that scenario, you want to be facing the Patriots, not the Niners. If you're facing the Niners, you're fucked if Eli is on the field. I watched it happen twice where Eli got owned and deserved to lose. Special "bus" teams saved them.

Pittsburgh, Baltimore, San Fran, and Houston. Best defenses in the league last year, no shock at all that they all have winning records, and I expect they will all be in the playoffs. New Orleans, New England, Green Bay, and Philly. Only half have winning records, and Philly is extremely questionable. All were the best offenses with top tier QBs. How many will make the playoffs this year?

[Nebu]

With all of this QB talk, I thought this might lighten the mood a bit.

[Trippy]

Both Manning brothers will be in the HOF.

Peyton will. Eli to me is the second coming of Phil Simms right now. Eli needs to play better in the regular season before I would consider him HoF material.

[Trippy]

I think you can make the case.  Eli has two super bowls, and has more road playoff wins of any QB ever.  He is amazing in the 4th quarter, with 22 career 4th quarter comebacks, (including both super bowls).  Bottom line is that as Cyrrex stipulated "with the game on the line" Eli is about the best there is by the numbers.

4th quarter comebacks are overrated. Yes the really good quarterbacks have a knack for them but you only need to look at Tim Tebow to realize how misleading they can be. In other words sometimes the comeback is needed cause your defense couldn't hold the lead. Often though it's cause you sucked for three quarters and now you have to make something happen before time runs out.

[naum]

[HaemishM]

Is that Bubby Brister?

[Nebu]

Is that Bubby Brister?

That's what I assumed... and it made me feel terrible that I knew that.

[ghost]

Is that winning or losing the thread? 

[Ingmar]

What am I missing about the picture's relevance?

[HaemishM]

Brister was a Super Bowl QB (though a losing one). Other than that, I have no idea.

[Rasix]

He has 2 rings backing up Elway, which really has no relevance to the discussion at hand.

[ghost]

Cushing is out for the season with a torn ACL.  That's a big fucking deal for the Texans, but they'll still be pretty decent without him. 

[HaemishM]

Their defense definitely got worse with Cushing out of there, but given a week or two to prepare the backup, yeah, they'll be fine. Let's face it, they'll walk to that division title with both Jacksonville and Tennessee being total ass and Indy rebuilding.

[Cyrrex]

Yeah, but that JJ Watt(s) guy is like having 4 Brian Cushings on your team.  Okay maybe not, but he's fucking good.

Back to Eli/Peyton:  I love Peyton Manning.  Not only a great quarterback and field general, but a decent and funny guy by all accounts.  But he chokes.  He shits his pants as often as not when in the playoffs, because he ends up outsmarting himself.  Tom Brady basically owns him.  Compare stats all you want, when the biggest games are on the line, I lose faith in Peyton.  His brother?  Could give a fuck about Tom fucking Brady.  Finds a way to win those games.  Eli has the better defense right now, but Peyton has had better teams overall with the Colts.  Peyton should have at least 3 SBs by now, considering the teams he has been on and the situations he's been in.  Eli should have zero.

Truth be told, I would pick Peyton as my regular season QB, and then I would bench him in favor of Eli as soon as the playoffs came around.

[sickrubik]

I guess you're right. I mean Peyton did miss that critical field goal, and Eli did have that magnificent "helmet catch" that he threw to himself.

I'll clarify instead of just being flippant. So much rides on everything firing on all cylinders to get through the playoffs. Through the Dungy years, the Colts enjoyed home field advantage/first round bye through much of that, and often did not play starters the last week of the season, so they would go upwards of 3 weeks of not playing. It's been discussed quite extensively if that is a good move. They year they won, they had to play in the wildcard round. They had to fight for it.

Basically, the season and to more of an extent, the post season is a team effort. One man can not win in the post season. That's why it's important to look at the play overall rather than saying "Hey, Eli has more rings, CLEARLY HE IS BETER". You said Eli is more clutch, but that still doesn't pan out as Peyton has more come backs and fourth quarter drives. Also saying 'they lost because they choked" belittles the teams that they lost to, most often the friggin Patriots of the 2000s, the most consistent and complete team over the last 12 years. Peyton is a better quarterback than Brady, but BARELY, but the Patriots were always a better team.

Peyton and Brady will be in the hall one day for sure, and I hope Eli is there too, he deserves it as well.

And the reason that Peyton "cares" about Brady is because they've faced each other in so many games that were critical and great games. That builds the rivalry. There really isn't any QB rivalries to be had in the NFC over the last decade or so. There's probably been nothing like Brady/Manning really. Hell, as much as I like Eli, he's not even the best QB in the NFC.

[Paelos]

Peyton has more passing yards than Elway. He's third on the all-time list and still playing. The only guy higher that's not in the HOF yet is Favre, and he will be.

Eli's 5 years and 27,000 yards behind his brother. Rings don't make you a hall of famer in my opinion. Drew Bledsoe isn't in yet. Jim Plunkett has 2 super bowl rings and will never get in the Hall.

Eli has a long way to go if he wants to get in the discussion. Guys like Collins, Brees, Rothlesburger, and Brady will also have something to say if he's up for consideration. Even McNabb and Hasselbeck will have a case if Eli gets in.

[ghost]

Eli is a million light years away from Plunkett in terms of overall effectiveness, although it really is a travesty that Plunkett isn't in the HOF.