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f13.net General Forums => Warhammer Online => Topic started by: Velorath on February 03, 2009, 03:48:45 PM



Title: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Velorath on February 03, 2009, 03:48:45 PM
From the EA financial report. (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=22150)


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on February 03, 2009, 03:52:08 PM
That quarter ended in Dec 2008, didn't it? 

If so, I'm going to guess that the sub numbers have dipped significantly lower than 300k.  I'd be surprised if they have even two thirds that.  Ok, unless a bunch of dumb asses bought 6 month subs. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Velorath on February 03, 2009, 03:54:14 PM
That quarter ended in Dec 2008, didn't it? 

It's EA's fiscal Q3, so I beleive so.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on February 03, 2009, 03:57:23 PM
Haha awesome. Suck it MJ.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Ratama on February 03, 2009, 03:59:34 PM
I wonder if any of the Mythic folks will ever acknowledge responsibility for some of those lost jobs; if this happened in feudal present-day Japan, MJ would have already committed seppuku by now.

Edit: Not that any other sector of the NA gaming industry's big on accountability, either.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on February 03, 2009, 04:11:30 PM
300k counts US AND Europe btw.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Goreschach on February 03, 2009, 04:12:13 PM
300k counts US AND Europe btw.

Ouch.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on February 03, 2009, 04:15:36 PM
The economy is to blame here!   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: HaemishM on February 03, 2009, 04:16:00 PM
Double ouch. Like that's a serious butt pain from the fickle finger of fate being worked up my backside ouch. That beat my 150k prediction, but sure as hell fell under MJ's "we need 500k to be profitable" threshhold.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Fordel on February 03, 2009, 04:16:50 PM
So wait, does that mean WAR didn't beat out DaoC's peak?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: HaemishM on February 03, 2009, 04:17:52 PM
I don't think so. I think DAoC peaked around 250k.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Fordel on February 03, 2009, 04:19:00 PM
Was that 250k US only or World Wide?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Felgercarb on February 03, 2009, 04:19:56 PM
C'mon, its got to be just enough money to get NFSO up and running, right? Stay classy, Mythic  :grin:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on February 03, 2009, 04:20:16 PM
Box sales of AoC and WAR clearly demonstrate that there is a solid market hungry for a quality MMO that is different from WoW (at least in some minor way).  If someone can manage to release such a title (pause for laughter), there should be plenty of money to be had.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Ratama on February 03, 2009, 04:22:28 PM
Warhammer's not unsalvagable; it just needs someone new at the helm, obviously.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on February 03, 2009, 04:30:34 PM
Warhammer's not unsalvagable; it just needs someone new at the helm, obviously.

I'm not sure I agree.  I think the game needs an entire rebuild.  Fixes to WAR will slow the bleeding, but this game's moment of glory has come and gone.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Merusk on February 03, 2009, 04:32:48 PM
Warhammer's not unsalvagable; it just needs someone new at the helm, obviously.

They'd have to pull a turnaround of EVE proportions, and that's taken CCP YEARS.

Then there's the engine problems Nebu's alluding to.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Fordel on February 03, 2009, 04:34:30 PM
CCP also delivers something truly unique in the current MMO world.




Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on February 03, 2009, 04:36:50 PM
Warhammer Online was just voted the The Most Accessible Game of 2008 (http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/110171737/p1/?38)!

Woohoo!


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on February 03, 2009, 04:39:05 PM
The jokes write themselves.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on February 03, 2009, 04:42:21 PM
moving to PC board


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: tazelbain on February 03, 2009, 04:44:24 PM
Paul needs to be shot from a cannon back to England.  He may be proud of his ignorance of MMOs but it really hurts WAR.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Montague on February 03, 2009, 05:00:58 PM
Looks like EAMobile cost them 370 million in writedowns  :awesome_for_real:

Wonder if EA will pull the plug on them releasing in Russia. If so you can put WAR on the DNR list.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lantyssa on February 03, 2009, 05:06:05 PM
I think Paul should release a video with an EA Exec dressing him down about how the 'bug' in subscription retention went unnoticed and unfixed for several months.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Ingmar on February 03, 2009, 05:08:30 PM
I think Paul should release a video with an EA Exec dressing him down about how the 'bug' in subscription retention went unnoticed and unfixed for several months.

God, that would rule.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soulflame on February 03, 2009, 06:00:21 PM
When did WAR release again?  I know my 3 month sub (please don't laugh... ok, you can stop now...) just ran out about a week ago.  I suspect those numbers do not reflect the dropoff of those who did originally sub for 3 months or more.

Ok, Wikipedia says Sept 18.  So, yeah.  They're probably still counting 3 month subs, and I'd wager a fair number of those are gone by now.  The numbers posted at the end of Q1 2009 should be... interesting.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on February 03, 2009, 06:13:01 PM
Mark poked his head out on the VN thread (http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/110172701/p7/?222)

Quote from: A fat bald guy
P.S. Because not everything that I hoped to talk about was in the earnings call (they had other things to talk about obviously), I'm waiting on guidance from corporate to see if I can add a few additional bit of information that weren't contained in the call before I write a longer post than this.

Oh I hope it's good!


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on February 03, 2009, 07:39:04 PM
So, to update a previous post of mine (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=15149.0):

Quote
AoC:

1.2 million boxes sold to stores

800k boxes sold to players

EDIT - 700k activated boxes first month

415k subscribers a quarter out from launch or so

So, WAR:

1.5 million boxes shipped

1.2 million boxes sold

800k activated boxes first month

300k subscribers a quarter out from launch.

It seems that WAR tanked harder than AoC.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Trippy on February 03, 2009, 07:51:05 PM
Warhammer's not unsalvagable; it just needs someone new at the helm, obviously.
They'd have to pull a turnaround of EVE proportions, and that's taken CCP YEARS.

Then there's the engine problems Nebu's alluding to.
You could still salvage the game if you had the right people making the decisions (see: EQ II). However actually growing the game significantly is a different story, and much more difficult to do in this day and age. I think the best case scenario for Mythic is if they did put somebody who knew what he/she was doing in charge they could probably get to around 500K NA+Euro subs.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lantyssa on February 03, 2009, 07:51:46 PM
It seems that WAR tanked harder than AoC.
They're number 1 after all! ;D


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Redgiant on February 04, 2009, 12:57:07 AM
Warhammer Online was just voted the The Most Accessible Game of 2008 (http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/110171737/p1/?38)!

Woohoo!

I'm STEven HAWking, and I'M a SHAman.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Redgiant on February 04, 2009, 01:21:24 AM
They're probably still counting 3 month subs, and I'd wager a fair number of those are gone by now.  The numbers posted at the end of Q1 2009 should be... interesting.

So the Q3 numbers do not reflect a single multi-month subscription loss.

Of the 8 others I know in RL that play(ed) WAR at release:

- None play today
- 1 had a 1-month sub
- 8 (7 + myself) had a 3-month sub
- No one had longer subs

That means 1/9 of losses from my friends is reflected in Q3 numbers.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on February 04, 2009, 03:46:20 AM
Saying 800k current users last quarter really came back to bite them in the arse.

Edit to add.

Paul Barnett (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/warhammer-onlines-paul-barnett-interview)

Quote from: Eurogamer
Eurogamer: Do you have a number of players in mind that you'd consider a success?

Paul Barnett: I don't know what the business people have - they have all sorts of crazy numbers, and things to do with shareholders, and things that would probably get me fired. But we're having a staff pool. I put down my bet: a million within the year, and then three million.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on February 04, 2009, 05:44:15 AM
Paul Barnett doesn't add anything though. I don't even know how he got into gaming. Seems his previous career was snake oil salesman. What a damn worm.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: FatuousTwat on February 04, 2009, 05:58:13 AM
Paul Barnett doesn't add anything though. I don't even know how he got into gaming. Seems his previous career was snake oil salesman. What a damn worm.


I think you could find someone like him in any company. Some people (morons) find his type of personality charming, can't see past the charm, and hire them.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on February 04, 2009, 05:59:15 AM
Paul Barnett doesn't add anything though. I don't even know how he got into gaming. Seems his previous career was snake oil salesman. What a damn worm.
I think you could find someone like him in any company. Some people (morons) find his type of personality charming, can't see past the charm, and hire them.

I get that but someone at EA really should've chucked his ass out on the street and denied him any recommendations after some of the stunts he pulled. Obviously Mark and Co. aren't going to.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: FatuousTwat on February 04, 2009, 06:01:47 AM
Mark seems like the type to need that kind of personality around him. I would bet that Paul is a huge yes-man (at least to Mark, he is most likely a huge dick to the people under him, evidenced by that fucking youtube video).

Of course, I don't know either of them personally, but that is the vibe I've always gotten.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on February 04, 2009, 06:37:55 AM
Paul Barnett's history in his own words (http://www.mmognation.com/2007/05/16/face-the-nation-paul-barnett-pt-1/) - MUD designer, consultant, consultant to Games Workshop, got shifted over to Mythic and worked his way up to Creative Lead on WAR. Jacobs seems to like him a lot.

I think Barnett is sharp at telling people what they want to hear, being smart enough to flow quickly when he needs to learn new things and charming enough to be fun to work with. Of course, he tries to make everything a joke, he speaks a lot without thinking and what he's told people hasn't nearly matched up to what was delivered.

Jacobs doesn't appear able to manage him, or to assess his own product, or understand players in the slightest.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on February 04, 2009, 06:49:40 AM
He's good at hyping, which is good for box sales, but it doesn't help retention.  I don't think they need him any more, he said crafting was going to be awesome because Mark Jacobs was personally overseeing it, after release he admitted hyping was basically lying in a youtube clip, I can't be arsed finding the links.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Bismallah on February 04, 2009, 07:00:52 AM
He is great at hyping. When I met him in Baltimore at a Games Day I walked out of the WAR briefing wanting to immediately buy WAR and play as my primary MMO. The more I see him the more I want to throw up. He is a pompous ass and has no place in EA/Mythic. He might make people laugh clowning around but business wise what the fuck is he doing? Strategic hire to work PR magic? Well that failed... anyhow.

On topic though, put WAR on this chart: http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html

Put a blip off the chart at the top, 800k mark, then put a mark at 300k at half the distance of ONE tick at the bottom (one tick being 6 months). The closest representation of a plummet that bad is EQ from the middle of 2005 to 2006. Even then WAR's dropping line is staggering...

Now, the real kick in the balls is going to be Q1 2009 when they lose even more subscribers on their total numbers. When you see that number is barely breaking 200k (or lower) I suspect we see major shifts of power in the Mythic structure.



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on February 04, 2009, 07:53:22 AM
On topic though, put WAR on this chart: http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html

You must be new here. 

Fabricated chart contains fabricated numbers.  The rest of the story is a lot more... colorful. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Azazel on February 04, 2009, 08:06:51 AM
He is great at hyping. ... The more I see him the more I want to throw up. He is a pompous ass and has no place in EA/Mythic. He might make people laugh ... but business wise what the fuck is he doing? ... Well that failed... anyhow.

Changed your Burnett quotes to make them into Jacobs ones.

Those two assclowns really need to go for a long drive. Maybe Ted Kennedy can be their chauffeur.  :rimshot:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Bismallah on February 04, 2009, 08:32:08 AM
You must be new here. 

Fabricated chart contains fabricated numbers.  The rest of the story is a lot more... colorful. 

Yeah, I am. I didn't even know green was to denote sarcasm so I can't tell from your response what you mean. If you were to put WAR on that chart the drop in subs would be drastic compared to nearly every game that he tried to track (some good stats, some bad stats) in that range.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on February 04, 2009, 09:39:58 AM
F13 has a ... history ... with SirBruce, who runs MMOcharts. It's a varied history - there was laughter, there were tears, there was much response to trolling on both sides - but he's not welcome here.

Problem was with a lot of those numbers they are unverifiable. However, since more and more MMO companies are being publicly owned and announcing figures, it could become a lot more accurate. (Also: not all of the numbers are the same, since active subs != active players or any number of variations that have been reported).

WAR's numbers have been officially reported, so 800k to 300k is a 62.5% drop in active subscription numbers since launch.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Bismallah on February 04, 2009, 09:44:56 AM
Ok, that history lesson helps, a lot. I heard the name SirBruce tossed around but never knew what it was connected to.

And yes, 800k to 300k in three months is nasty. Money wise that's a huge chunk of change they lost in monthly net income that they will never get back. Money that went to employees, development costs, server upkeep (upgrade), and many other things.

I expect that everything is not sunshine and happiness this week in Fairfax...



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on February 04, 2009, 10:14:22 AM
Corporate will probably definitely be looking at trends and expect an answer from Jacobs at this point.  If they don't see a profitable venture I can definitely see EA pulling out of this one, particularly with their corporate earnings.  I don't think that a huge MMO workforce is something these companies would like to support if they don't have to.  You start involving things like medical benefits, raises, simple management of people and so on and it would seem difficult to rationalize keeping it going.  I know that I try to keep my own business as small as possible simply for the people management issues- and the fact that they are typically your biggest overhead expense. 

As a follow up to that, I wonder what MJs contribution to the company overhead is? :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Bismallah on February 04, 2009, 10:59:24 AM
I fully expect to see more layoffs in personnel for the Mythic section of EA, specifically those connected to WAR. Losing that much revenue over such a short period of time they cannot expect to support nearly 300+ employees full time. Protip: They can start with Paul, I bet he is charging them a pretty penny for his "skills".



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on February 04, 2009, 11:00:28 AM
I fully expect to see more layoffs in personnel for the Mythic section of EA

Obvious news today will be obvious.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ashrik on February 04, 2009, 11:09:14 AM
Oh shit, that SirBruce?

I always saw his name mentioned when someone breaks your post into pieces and replies to each piece.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Cyrrex on February 04, 2009, 11:15:43 AM
Corporate will probably definitely be looking at trends and expect an answer from Jacobs at this point. 

OMGECONOMY!!! will probably be attempted as an excuse.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on February 04, 2009, 11:49:20 AM
As I was saying, Obvious news is obvious. (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=16064.0)


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nija on February 04, 2009, 11:54:34 AM
It's going to be hard to have a turn around for WAR or Conan or anything that has a client as large as these games do.

In order to give a person a trail with decent options, you're talking about a lot of art assets just for the various races and animations, not to mention items and zones and music and that sort of thing.

Basically, you'd have to give me a pretty good goddamn reason to bother downloading your 4-8 gig client. I was thinking just the other day that I'd like to try a Conan trial, to see what has changed since the pathetic beta. When I really think about it though, I don't want to download 4-8 gigs to play a couple hours.

Maybe that's one reason why the Eve turn around happened. That client could fit on a single CD for years and years. I'm not sure how much the new client is with the better graphics, but it's still probably a tiny fraction of the size of most MMOs.

Another instance of me not wanting to bother re-installing massive clients is EQ2 this past summer. They gave me 2 or 3 months of free EQ2, and I even have the dvds in a drawer somewhere. I didn't bother even installing the game, as I didn't want to mess with the hdd requirements and, special to EQ2, the interface modding requirements. Shit I didn't bother with the TRIAL OF THE ISLE for a long time either, shit that was a few gigs wasn't it?

F it.

GL WAR. I hope that douchebag Barnett gets fired. He'd be better off selling shoes to fat chicks at one of those walkabout stores.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on February 04, 2009, 12:19:50 PM
It's going to be hard to have a turn around for WAR or Conan or anything that has a client as large as these games do.

In order to give a person a trail with decent options, you're talking about a lot of art assets just for the various races and animations, not to mention items and zones and music and that sort of thing.

Basically, you'd have to give me a pretty good goddamn reason to bother downloading your 4-8 gig client. I was thinking just the other day that I'd like to try a Conan trial, to see what has changed since the pathetic beta. When I really think about it though, I don't want to download 4-8 gigs to play a couple hours.

Maybe that's one reason why the Eve turn around happened. That client could fit on a single CD for years and years. I'm not sure how much the new client is with the better graphics, but it's still probably a tiny fraction of the size of most MMOs.

Another instance of me not wanting to bother re-installing massive clients is EQ2 this past summer. They gave me 2 or 3 months of free EQ2, and I even have the dvds in a drawer somewhere. I didn't bother even installing the game, as I didn't want to mess with the hdd requirements and, special to EQ2, the interface modding requirements. Shit I didn't bother with the TRIAL OF THE ISLE for a long time either, shit that was a few gigs wasn't it?

F it.

GL WAR. I hope that douchebag Barnett gets fired. He'd be better off selling shoes to fat chicks at one of those walkabout stores.

Sounds to me like you are one of the laziest people ever.  Either you cant be bothered to install a game or you have shit internet?  Seriously, is this really your complaint lol.  I re-installed AOC 2 weeks ago and had it up and running within 3 hours while I played other games.  You make it sound like its surgery or something.  wowjustwow.  Do you need someone to hold your d*ck when you piss too?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Jherad on February 04, 2009, 12:25:45 PM
From the Herald (http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=607):

Quote
Folks,

Mythic has always been committed to maintaining a high level of development and customer service to our MMO players. In anticipation of rumors regarding staff reductions here at Mythic today, this seems like a good time to provide some insight into the future of development, customer service, quality assurance and play testing at Mythic. Though we are resizing the team to move from a pre-launch to a post-launch size, we remain fully committed to creating and delivering the best WAR experience.

We have a very exciting schedule planned for new WAR content and that schedule is unchanged.  Over the next few months, the announced "Call to Arms" live expansion events, new careers, new Tomb King themed area and RvR dungeon will be made available to our players as planned.

With respect to customer service, quality assurance and play testing, prior to the launch of WAR, we hired additional people to deal with the rush of demand associated with an MMO launch and to insure the best possible experience for our players.  We accomplished that goal and as a result we had the smoothest-ever launch of a major MMO.  Since the launch last year, the demand for customer service has gone down as players become more familiar with the game.  Obviously, demand for a large QA and play-testing staff also falls after launch.  As a result, we saw a staff reduction which is in line with the company-wide initiative. In no way does this conflict with our commitment to customer service.  Staffing numbers will always map to consumer needs – it goes up when we launch new products and expand popular ones, and comes back down as players become familiar with the game.

Although we now have fewer developers on the game than we did leading up to the launch, WAR still has a larger dev team today than we ever had for Dark Age of Camelot. At Mythic, we’re committed to maintaining the trust of WAR players – we’re going to deliver the content and service that keeps you playing.

Mark

The phrase 'as players become more familiar with the game' needs one huuuuge  :awesome_for_real:

Edit: Schild beat me to it here (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=16064.msg588122#msg588122), apologies.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nija on February 04, 2009, 12:33:21 PM
Sounds to me like you are one of the laziest people ever.  Either you cant be bothered to install a game or you have shit internet?  Seriously, is this really your complaint lol.  I re-installed AOC 2 weeks ago and had it up and running within 3 hours while I played other games.  You make it sound like its surgery or something.  wowjustwow.  Do you need someone to hold your d*ck when you piss too?

I have a decent internet provider. I pull about 2100 kps from newsgroups. I am, however, quite lazy. Tell me. Did you spend more time playing AoC than you did acquiring/installing/configuring AoC?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Draegan on February 04, 2009, 12:40:19 PM
It took me 3.5 hours to install EQ2 the other night.  This was from the disks of the latest expansion mind you.  That's fucking crazy long.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nija on February 04, 2009, 12:44:50 PM
It took me 3.5 hours to install EQ2 the other night.  This was from the disks of the latest expansion mind you.  That's fucking crazy long.

Right. I mean I don't even have my gaming PC turned ON for 3.5 hours a day.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on February 04, 2009, 03:12:45 PM
I got interested in EQ2 again maybe... 8 months ago. Installed everything, logged in with a new account, saw the interface/textures/character models and seriously had to wonder why I ever played the game. I logged off after 10 minutes. I don't remember the game looking that bad when I played it a year after release, oh well.

I actually spent MORE time installing and MORE time looking at forums to find out which classes were decent.

I swore I'd never do that shit again.

edit: Someone on some other forum made this chart, anyone care to check its accuracy?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Valmorian on February 04, 2009, 03:41:37 PM
I re-installed AOC 2 weeks ago and had it up and running within 3 hours while I played other games.

WTF is wrong with you?  3 Hours to install a game is INSANE.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Morfiend on February 04, 2009, 05:00:16 PM
I got interested in EQ2 again maybe... 8 months ago. Installed everything, logged in with a new account, saw the interface/textures/character models and seriously had to wonder why I ever played the game. I logged off after 10 minutes. I don't remember the game looking that bad when I played it a year after release, oh well.


Just FYI you can get a high res character pack that does AMAZING things the the character models. It makes it a whole new game.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on February 04, 2009, 05:01:08 PM
I got interested in EQ2 again maybe... 8 months ago. Installed everything, logged in with a new account, saw the interface/textures/character models and seriously had to wonder why I ever played the game. I logged off after 10 minutes. I don't remember the game looking that bad when I played it a year after release, oh well.
Just FYI you can get a high res character pack that does AMAZING things the the character models. It makes it a whole new game.
Link.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on February 04, 2009, 06:53:03 PM
From the Herald (http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=607):

Quote
We accomplished that goal and as a result we had the smoothest-ever launch of a major MMO.  Since the launch last year, the demand for customer service has gone down as players become more familiar with the game.  Obviously, demand for a large QA and play-testing staff also falls after launch.  As a result, we saw a staff reduction which is in line with the company-wide initiative. In no way does this conflict with our commitment to customer service.  Staffing numbers will always map to consumer needs – it goes up when we launch new products and expand popular ones, and comes back down as players become familiar with the game.

Epic spin is epic.

Also, they don't need QA because they just put things to test out on the live servers.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on February 04, 2009, 06:59:55 PM
You need MORE QA because consistent subs mean expansions, content patch pushes, etc. I feel for the guys who got laid off but that's some fucking disgusting Baghdad Bob shit right there.

Fucking own up to it, you fucking pussies.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Ingmar on February 04, 2009, 07:17:33 PM
Lum's take on it is pretty apt. It is the final fuck you, lay them off and then post up on the website that they weren't really very important.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Triforcer on February 04, 2009, 09:40:21 PM
Does this mean HRose comes back and becomes our rightful king?  He is a Mark Jacobs-centrist now  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Malakili on February 04, 2009, 09:51:33 PM
It took me 3.5 hours to install EQ2 the other night.  This was from the disks of the latest expansion mind you.  That's fucking crazy long.

Right. I mean I don't even have my gaming PC turned ON for 3.5 hours a day.

Its not like you have to sit there the entire time and watch the progress bar, whenever i'm doing a big install I Just put a disk in, and go do something else, check back, swap disks, etc.



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on February 04, 2009, 10:32:29 PM
Maybe there is a list out there of who was let go (yeah, I know that's cold) but I'm amazed that Carrie Gouskos, who has the entire Tome of Knowledge feature of WAR attributed to her, was let go (http://www.mmognation.com/2009/02/04/dear-mythic-i-quit-warhammer/). The ToK was one of the few really interesting things in WAR.

However, I guess that the ToK is already designed and done, so it really doesn't need any further design.  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Fordel on February 04, 2009, 11:14:33 PM
Maybe Blizzard can hire her so she can put a similar thing in for WoW.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on February 04, 2009, 11:44:00 PM
Maybe Blizzard can hire her so she can put a similar thing in for WoW.

I'm hoping she's going to Cryptic.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Triforcer on February 04, 2009, 11:48:24 PM
DCUO.  I want goat-killing achievements in DCUO.



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ashrik on February 05, 2009, 12:34:37 AM
Quote
I mean I don't even have my gaming PC turned ON for 3.5 hours a day.
You may just be a foreign creature to me and mine

I wonder how long it'd take me to patch my WoW disks up to date. I know I'd count it in hours and not minutes.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Fordel on February 05, 2009, 12:55:00 AM
WoW is definitively in the hour+ range, at the best of times.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Azazel on February 05, 2009, 12:58:25 AM
Lum's take on it is pretty apt. It is the final fuck you, lay them off and then post up on the website that they weren't really very important.

Lum's take on it is pretty much my answer to sam, an eggplant's many posts in the MMO recruiter thread. A job is not worth your life, family, etc since we're all ultimately disposable and replacable workers, no matter how knowledgable or skilled we are (or like to think we are).



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: d4rkj3di on February 05, 2009, 04:53:50 AM
I'm hoping she's going to Cryptic.
I wouldn't wish that on anyone.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Sheepherder on February 05, 2009, 05:15:46 AM
WoW is definitively in the hour+ range, at the best of times.

Except it was never really a horrible fucking train wreck of bad game design.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Tarami on February 05, 2009, 05:52:50 AM
Tome of Knowledge was a fun bit of fluff. WAR doesn't need fun, it has serious business.

WAR is a strange case of some kind of inverse software development methodology. It has no fun inside the game and all the fucken clowns like Paul Barnett outside the game.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: AngryGumball on February 05, 2009, 05:56:51 AM
Paul Barnett doesn't add anything though. I don't even know how he got into gaming. Seems his previous career was snake oil salesman. What a damn worm.


I think you could find someone like him in any company. Some people (morons) find his type of personality charming, can't see past the charm, and hire them.

heh, as I wrote in other thread I'm a moron in this case. :)


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: AngryGumball on February 05, 2009, 06:04:12 AM
It took me 3.5 hours to install EQ2 the other night.  This was from the disks of the latest expansion mind you.  That's fucking crazy long.

Eeeegads anyone want to reminisce when they first installed Final Fantasy Online and set up their play online account and their game account. You warned people it took that long to install they just looked at you like you were daft.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: raydeen on February 05, 2009, 07:48:39 AM
It took me 3.5 hours to install EQ2 the other night.  This was from the disks of the latest expansion mind you.  That's fucking crazy long.

Eeeegads anyone want to reminisce when they first installed Final Fantasy Online and set up their play online account and their game account. You warned people it took that long to install they just looked at you like you were daft.

Oh, I can attest to that. I vividly remember the day. Something had borked my XP install so I did restored from disc and planned to re-install FFXI that afternoon and be up and playing with my buddies at the weekly afterschool LAN party. Started at 3:15pm. Ended at 8. By that time they were done and packing up to head home.  Stupidest godsdamn patcher I ever saw.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Delmania on February 05, 2009, 08:15:57 AM
It took me 3.5 hours to install EQ2 the other night.  This was from the disks of the latest expansion mind you.  That's fucking crazy long.

Eeeegads anyone want to reminisce when they first installed Final Fantasy Online and set up their play online account and their game account. You warned people it took that long to install they just looked at you like you were daft.

Oh, I can attest to that. I vividly remember the day. Something had borked my XP install so I did restored from disc and planned to re-install FFXI that afternoon and be up and playing with my buddies at the weekly afterschool LAN party. Started at 3:15pm. Ended at 8. By that time they were done and packing up to head home.  Stupidest godsdamn patcher I ever saw.

FFXI's patcher prepares you for the gameplay!  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waylander on February 05, 2009, 08:41:43 AM
Q1-2009 will tell the real story because by then the people who quit after their free 30 days and up to 3 month pre-pays will be out of the system. My best guess is that War will be in the 150k-225k range, but that's split over 2 continental server clusters so the game will continue to feel small. Many people will give a dev studio 90 paid days to get itself right, but then after that the game rapidly falls of a cliff if its not fun. AOC had 415K subs after its first 90 days, and before the next 90 days were up they downsized to 8 or 9 retail servers.

No one buys Mythic's spin on the fact the game released and they don't need so much extra help. The fact that Mark posts his BS and won't face the truth just continues to reinforce to people that Mythic is way out of touch. That's like the big Jan 29th announcement that then turned into a vague 6 month plan, and then they came back here to tell us that was their plan all along.

This game could be great if they implemented the major and reoccurring recommendations that have shown up everywhere about the boring leveling, the over emphasis on PVE to obtain gear, the dumb zone control scheme, the PVE part to move capital city assaults forward and the 5 sets of gear needed just to survive mobs, and the total unrewarding experience you get for ranking up your guild. I mean who needs a ride to mount gunbad at Guild Rank 29? Hello?

If they don't fix the game they get what they deserve, and Warhammer will haunt Mythic so bad that they will end up making niche games. Their days as a big studio will be over if they don't quickly turn around the Titanic known as Warhammer, especially after all that hype Mark Jacobs did.

I want Warhammer to succeed, but if they keep ignoring the wishes of their customers then they get what they deserve.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Felgercarb on February 05, 2009, 10:32:43 AM
If WAR drops below 250k subs EA will drop them like a red headed step slayer. What I really want to know is what is going to happen to Bioware when SWTOR doesn't meet expectations either?  :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on February 05, 2009, 10:37:02 AM
If WAR drops below 250k subs EA will drop them like a red headed step slayer. What I really want to know is what is going to happen to Bioware when SWTOR doesn't meet expectations either?  :ye_gods:
Bioware Austin would get shut down or skeleton crewed at the Pogo office. EA ain't letting go of licenses like Baldur's Gate and Mass Effect. They're cutthroat, but not stupid. Not to mention they probably treat Bioware Austin as independent from Bioware Edmonton.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on February 05, 2009, 01:33:05 PM
Well, at least I'm getting my money's worth out of rubbernecking this trainwreck.  Watching the flames is more fun than playing the game. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nija on February 05, 2009, 01:42:10 PM
Well, at least I'm getting my money's worth out of rubbernecking this trainwreck.  Watching the flames is more fun than playing the game. :awesome_for_real:

Reading threads is more fun than the actual game? Looks like WAR is entering Eve territory!


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on February 05, 2009, 02:10:02 PM
nm, new paul video has already been posted on the other thread.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Ingmar on February 05, 2009, 03:49:44 PM
Maybe Blizzard can hire her so she can put a similar thing in for WoW.

If that happens, I will need a new pair of pants.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Tarami on February 05, 2009, 04:45:29 PM
Maybe Blizzard can hire her so she can put a similar thing in for WoW.

If that happens, I will need a new pair of pants.
And socks. Lots of socks!


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Rondaror on February 06, 2009, 10:21:54 AM
Paul Barnett doesn't add anything though. I don't even know how he got into gaming. Seems his previous career was snake oil salesman. What a damn worm.

Actually I think he even damages WAR / Mythic with his public appearnce on youtube/blogs etc....
A lot of people are disappointed, because WAR did not deliver a great game at launch. And a lot of people see Paul as being one responsible for hyping the game pre-launch.
He didn't change his behaviour after launch and does in his public appearance not take into consideration, that there have been a lot of staff-cutting taking place at Mythic right now.

So for me people think his either a clown or a stupid, ignorant pile of sh**.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Zzulo on February 06, 2009, 01:46:23 PM
I've always liked Paul. I think you take him far too seriously.

Not sure I care for Mark Jacobs though, he seems odd


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on February 06, 2009, 03:02:55 PM
Paul Barnett has given me one thing: a metric for measuring personal worth.

For instance, if you look at Paul's two infamous youtube clips where he dumps on employees and think, "Man, what the fuck? That's not appropriate at all." then you're probably a) employed with a b) family and over the age of c) 25.

If, on the other hand, you look at them and say, "I've always liked Paul. I think you take him far too seriously." then a) you probably think quoting the Knights Who Say Ni is the height of humor, b) have at least one (1) shirt with a wolf on it and c) fuck you.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lantyssa on February 06, 2009, 03:04:38 PM
I think we rather have the opposite view.  We don't take Paul seriously at all.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Delmania on February 06, 2009, 03:33:57 PM
b) have at least one (1) shirt with a wolf on it and c) fuck you.

Part of me wants to say fatality due to how true this is.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Tarami on February 06, 2009, 04:40:04 PM
Truth comes in harsh servings.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: SeaCell on February 06, 2009, 05:56:48 PM
Paul Barnett doesn't add anything though. I don't even know how he got into gaming. Seems his previous career was snake oil salesman. What a damn worm.

Actually I think he even damages WAR / Mythic with his public appearnce on youtube/blogs etc....
A lot of people are disappointed, because WAR did not deliver a great game at launch. And a lot of people see Paul as being one responsible for hyping the game pre-launch.
He didn't change his behaviour after launch and does in his public appearance not take into consideration, that there have been a lot of staff-cutting taking place at Mythic right now.

So for me people think his either a clown or a stupid, ignorant pile of sh**.

Carbon copy of Age of Conan's Side Show Barker Erling Ellingsen, he still hasn't learned to tone down his hype post-failure.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Zzulo on February 07, 2009, 07:12:37 AM
I haven't seen any youtube clips where he dumps on employees. Unless you mean the one where he rips on one of his friends (right next to him) and then lets the guy pie him in the next video.  It's very clownshoes yeah, but I don't mind that. Why would I?  Paul have been acting like that since they first started making videos years ago, so maybe I was just used to it?  Or maybe I just missed a critical asshattery video with him in it somewhere. As for how he is professionally, I won't even pretend to know how he works/acts when there are no cameras around, because I have no idea.



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Delmania on February 07, 2009, 10:44:53 AM
Paul is merely a symptom of a greater problem: the company's image.  It's trying to portray itself as the "hardcore" version if Blizzard.  Think of the comment comparing WAR to WoW as Led Zepplin and the Beatles.  It "low key" studio that focuses more on the games and less on the businees, so it's a cool place to work.  The thing with Blizzard is that is pretty much hwo they have always portrayed themselves (at least to me), but they also have legions of fans and multiple products, so they have the business to back up their image.  Mythic, on, the other hand doesn't have nearly the product line, and this image is nothing but a smoke screen and hype building.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Venkman on February 08, 2009, 07:24:23 AM
It's as others have said: they haven't changed their message with the state of the game.

Of course we don't expect them to go all emo and cry on podcasts and shit. But they still think there's an audience for the same hype they were spewing back last February, when those videos were (supposedly) stoking some people.

I suspect it is entirely because they don't know any better. They only POST at VN, they don't actually READ VN, nor anywhere else, so the only audience they really know about are the ones playing the game itself. This too would be just like DAoC. MJ has said about DAoC that the only people he really cares about are the ones still playing. So in this case they probably think those who are still playing are still buying into the same message that got them there in the first place.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: TianZi on February 13, 2009, 10:58:41 AM
FYI for the omniscient denizens of F13, Paul Barnett was seconded to EA Mythic by Games Workshop. In other words, he ultimately reported to GW, not Mark Jacobs or the CEO of EA Mythic (which Mark is not).

Barnett disclosed some time ago that he would be returning to GW after WAR's launch. His sole responsibility while working with the staff of EA Mythic was to ensure that the game's content was consistent with the Warhammer IP, e.g. the appearance of the Chosen in WAR should be consistent with how GW has depicted Chosen in the past. He had nothing to do with the core design of the game.

You might also have noticed, if observant (which the lot of you clearly aren't), that GW retained full title and ownership of, and to, the Warhammer Online IPR. EA Mythic / EA only has a license for it. You might have remembered the demise of the prior incarnation of Warhammer Online, and how GW handled that, but alas, you have short memories and tunnel vision. Petulant children, the lot of you.

Perhaps now you understand better why Paul seemed like a "loose cannon." Or more likely, you don't.




Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Rishathra on February 13, 2009, 11:52:24 AM
So you're saying that because he doesn't work for Mythic, it's OK for him to be a douchebag?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Tarami on February 13, 2009, 11:56:48 AM
Nvm. :-P



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on February 13, 2009, 12:02:11 PM
FYI for the omniscient denizens of F13, Paul Barnett was seconded to EA Mythic by Games Workshop. In other words, he ultimately reported to GW, not Mark Jacobs or the CEO of EA Mythic (which Mark is not).

Barnett disclosed some time ago that he would be returning to GW after WAR's launch. His sole responsibility while working with the staff of EA Mythic was to ensure that the game's content was consistent with the Warhammer IP, e.g. the appearance of the Chosen in WAR should be consistent with how GW has depicted Chosen in the past. He had nothing to do with the core design of the game.

You might also have noticed, if observant (which the lot of you clearly aren't), that GW retained full title and ownership of, and to, the Warhammer Online IPR. EA Mythic / EA only has a license for it. You might have remembered the demise of the prior incarnation of Warhammer Online, and how GW handled that, but alas, you have short memories and tunnel vision. Petulant children, the lot of you.

Perhaps now you understand better why Paul seemed like a "loose cannon." Or more likely, you don't.




I hope you die.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: HaemishM on February 13, 2009, 12:03:32 PM
The man is an unprofessional fucking clown. Are you suggesting GW think a clown should be the primary promoter of one of, by extension, their products?

I see you've never dealt with Games Workshop. Petulant, unprofessional assclowns are the very definition of GW people.

Barnett is a douchebag no matter who he reports to. Jacobs is a douchebag for letting him continue to embarrass the company.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on February 13, 2009, 12:03:54 PM
FYI for the omniscient denizens of F13, Paul Barnett was seconded to EA Mythic by Games Workshop. In other words, he ultimately reported to GW, not Mark Jacobs or the CEO of EA Mythic (which Mark is not).

Barnett disclosed some time ago that he would be returning to GW after WAR's launch. His sole responsibility while working with the staff of EA Mythic was to ensure that the game's content was consistent with the Warhammer IP, e.g. the appearance of the Chosen in WAR should be consistent with how GW has depicted Chosen in the past. He had nothing to do with the core design of the game.

You might also have noticed, if observant (which the lot of you clearly aren't), that GW retained full title and ownership of, and to, the Warhammer Online IPR. EA Mythic / EA only has a license for it. You might have remembered the demise of the prior incarnation of Warhammer Online, and how GW handled that, but alas, you have short memories and tunnel vision. Petulant children, the lot of you.

Perhaps now you understand better why Paul seemed like a "loose cannon." Or more likely, you don't.
What the fuck has that got to do with the price of tea in China?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on February 13, 2009, 12:12:14 PM


I see you've never dealt with Games Workshop. Petulant, unprofessional assclowns are the very definition of GW people.

Barnett is a douchebag no matter who he reports to. Jacobs is a douchebag for letting him continue to embarrass the company.

I will repeat what I said months and months ago when I still thought WAR might be keen: I hated that fucker the first time I saw one of his podcasts because he is straight up what GW demands of their employees. He was my manager when I worked there, he was the district manager, he was the designer... I knew exactly what he was going to say before he said it every single time.

He's King fucking Fatbeard with a bunch of fawning lesser Fatbeards in his court giggling with an attaboy every time he opens his mouth to take out his frustration at not banging the cheerleader at age 16 on a subordinate. He's the rules lawyer at the 40k table at your local gaming store impressing 13 year olds with his depth of Terminator armor suit knowledge. He's the Simpsons Comic Book Guy with a seemingly respectable job being enabled by a thousand sad fucks for whom the idea of a conversation *not* centering around Buffy the Vampire Slayer is anathema.

I've had a zillion nerdy jobs in my lifetime. Local gaming store manager, assistant manager at a Games Workshop store, QA at an MMO studio... in each and every instance there was a Paul Barnett, a person so cripplingly unable to deal with the real world it bordered on sad but all the more frustrating because he or she was deemed Alpha Nerd by people even sadder. There's a million Paul Barnetts. Neither he nor his special brand of loud stupidity is impressive. What IS impressive is that he made it out of the local gaming store and onto my fucking computer; that is most assuredly on Mythic's table.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Delmania on February 13, 2009, 02:58:19 PM
FYI for the omniscient denizens of F13, Paul Barnett was seconded to EA Mythic by Games Workshop. In other words, he ultimately reported to GW, not Mark Jacobs or the CEO of EA Mythic (which Mark is not).

We're all aware of who Mark Jacobs is and who he isn't, thanks.
Quote
Barnett disclosed some time ago that he would be returning to GW after WAR's launch. His sole responsibility while working with the staff of EA Mythic was to ensure that the game's content was consistent with the Warhammer IP, e.g. the appearance of the Chosen in WAR should be consistent with how GW has depicted Chosen in the past. He had nothing to do with the core design of the game.

Funny, it's been 3 months since WAR was released and he's still there.

Quote
You might also have noticed, if observant (which the lot of you clearly aren't), that GW retained full title and ownership of, and to, the Warhammer Online IPR. EA Mythic / EA only has a license for it. You might have remembered the demise of the prior incarnation of Warhammer Online, and how GW handled that, but alas, you have short memories and tunnel vision. Petulant children, the lot of you.

Yes, GW is ironfisted with it's lore as that is all it really has.  In  case you haven't noticed, we're not bitching about the lore.  We're bitching about the fact that Mythic took all the good stuff from DAoC, shredded and pissed on it, did some LSD, and then released a cheap, poorly done WoW clone and called it RvR.

Quote
Perhaps now you understand better why Paul seemed like a "loose cannon." Or more likely, you don't.

Your post was enlightening, but not relevant.  It doesn't change the fact that WAR has some major design flaws in it, and that Paul's videos on the web, regardless of who he reports to are annoying.  Unless GW has some hidden infliuence isn either of those, this post has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on February 13, 2009, 03:10:05 PM
Petulant children, the lot of you.

You want your teddy back?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on February 13, 2009, 03:28:11 PM
Not often somebody mentions Climax Studios now, reminded me of a recent post (only a couple of years ago) on Warhammer Alliance (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?p=227188#post227188).

Quote from: Daehkcidasluap
Mythic are the second development company to work on Warhammer Online, They got the project based on an easy no outlay, commision based deal from Games Workshop!,

Our experiences of Paul Barnett were, he known nothing of the games industry and gets by with a little Warhammer knowledge, a little business knowledge and alot of verbal diarrhorea. It just seems very evident that in several years not much has changed lol.

When I mentioned games front, I should have said games development front. I WOULD be interested to here what Mythic has to say on what they are developing instead of the monkey on the Mythic grinder.

I guess it's not beyond the realms of possibility that ex members of Climax Studios might be enjoying what's currently happening.  Enjoying it that is, until they remember that their graphics looked a bit rough (http://uk.pc.ign.com/dor/objects/573062/warhammer-online-2004/images/warhammer-online-20040513072212924.html?page=mediaFull) and pvp wasn't even a major focus of their planned title.

Edit but no, that's too interesting, TianZi (aka Tianzi38) doesn't appear to be an ex member of Climax, his main claim to fame appears to be having a level 60 Warrior in WoW.

Here's a quote from Tianzi38 (http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/86993769/r89092569/) about Mythic taking on Warhammer online back in 2005.

Quote from: Tianzi38
I am ecstatic to hear that Mythic has taken over the project and that the old team has been kicked. The only developer I'd have been more pleased to take over development would have been Blizzard.
:grin:

Also this thread is absolutely wonderful (http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/90200061/r90268741/).


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Tmon on February 13, 2009, 04:17:28 PM

Also this thread is absolutely wonderful (http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/90200061/r90268741/).

It's beyond wonderful, I think splendiferous comes close to describing it.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Merusk on February 13, 2009, 04:26:19 PM
He's like a Bizarro Hrose.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on February 13, 2009, 04:39:26 PM
Man, I don't remember the screenshots from the Climax version looking THAT bad. Wow.  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on February 13, 2009, 04:46:54 PM
linky (http://vnboards.ign.com/tabula_rasa_general_board/b22750/72947054/p1/?9)

Quote from: Tianzi38
NCSoft: You have an indispensabe asset in Richard Garriott. In a field comprised almost entirely of unoriginal copycats, Richard is a standout creative genius who has given us RPG games of legendary stature: the early Ultima games. Those games ventured into previously uncharted territory by forcing the player to consider the potential ethical ramifications of their actions. I loved them and as a child played them when they were released.

The meddling of beancounters and plastic suits in Origin ruined the final few Ultima games. I've read Garriott's account of how it happened, and don't doubt it.

NCSoft, don't repeat Origin's errors. Believe in your man. Have faith in him. I do -- and so do many thousands of computer RPG fans.

I had the pleasure of meeting Richard at E3 this year. Although I am an insignificant nothing as far as the global gaming business goes, Richard kindly spent more than 10 minutes talking to me about Ultima, Tabula Rosa, and other topics. He is a wonderful man.

 :drillf:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on February 13, 2009, 05:02:20 PM
Quote
I am an insignificant nothing

> Grief Title


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Tannhauser on February 13, 2009, 05:02:29 PM
linky (http://vnboards.ign.com/tabula_rasa_general_board/b22750/72947054/p1/?9)

Quote from: Tianzi38
NCSoft: You have an indispensabe asset in Richard Garriott. In a field comprised almost entirely of unoriginal copycats, Richard is a standout creative genius who has given us RPG games of legendary stature: the early Ultima games. Those games ventured into previously uncharted territory by forcing the player to consider the potential ethical ramifications of their actions. I loved them and as a child played them when they were released.

The meddling of beancounters and plastic suits in Origin ruined the final few Ultima games. I've read Garriott's account of how it happened, and don't doubt it.

NCSoft, don't repeat Origin's errors. Believe in your man. Have faith in him. I do -- and so do many thousands of computer RPG fans.

I had the pleasure of meeting Richard at E3 this year. Although I am an insignificant nothing as far as the global gaming business goes, Richard kindly spent more than 10 minutes talking to me about Ultima, Tabula Rosa, and other topics. He is a wonderful man.

 :drillf:

LOL at the bromance


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: fuser on February 13, 2009, 05:17:15 PM
Quote from: Arthur_Parke
  :awesome_for_real:  :awesome_for_real:  :awesome_for_real:

Thanks for the great reading material!


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on February 13, 2009, 06:14:41 PM
Quote
I am an insignificant nothing

> Grief Title
Too obvious and easy and no one wants him coming back anyway.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: TianZi on February 13, 2009, 10:14:15 PM
Quote
I am an insignificant nothing

> Grief Title
Too obvious and easy and no one wants him coming back anyway.

So how's that brilliant starvation diet working out, Schild? Still fat and lacking self-esteem? Thought so.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Trippy on February 13, 2009, 10:32:29 PM
:awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on February 13, 2009, 10:36:51 PM
I think it's a good angle to take. Fellating Garriott and Jacobs and shitting on a board admin.

Shame it's not particularly original.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Sheepherder on February 14, 2009, 04:14:18 AM
:popcorn:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on February 14, 2009, 08:07:58 AM
I'd just scratched the surface really.

Tianzi38 on Auto Assault Beta (http://vnboards.ign.com/auto_assault_general_board/b22967/94423217/p1/?7)

Quote from: Tianzi38
The game concept is marvelous, and after experiencing the new build, I'm beginning to believe Auto Assault will successfully make the development leap from fantastic on paper to fantastic end-product. It is still too early to be certain that the game will fully deliver on its promise, but I've pre-ordered.

Tianzi38 on Jessica Mulligan and Peter Molyneux (http://)

Quote from: Tianzi38
What struck me most was that whole of Mulligan's presentation had the weight of one of the balloons floating over his head. Nothing like the brilliance which undeniably shines from designers like Peter Molyneux in any interview. Mulligan comes across much better in his writings; he is undeniably very bright, but not particularly gifted at thinking outside the box.

I must admit to wondering what the final outcome was, when Tianzi38's Taiwan law firm organised their class action lawsuit against Microsoft & Turbine (http://vnboards.ign.com/ac2_general_board/b5427/40510716/r40581278/), after he got IP banned from Turbine's forums.  All over AC2 of all things, I wonder if he will accept a life time AC2 subscription as settlement.

Quote from: Tianzi38
You may consider this as my notice to Microsoft and Turbine that I intend to compel them through appropriate channels to indemnify any losses suffered by myself and others similarly situated (including without limitation purchase price, additional shipping expenses, and hardware upgrades) permitted under Taiwan law and / or federal or state law in the US, including claims for punitive damages / penalties permitted under the laws of the jurisdiction(s) in question (including those which may be available under any consumer protection statute) resulting from any false and / or negligent misrepresentations, and other tortious and / or illegal or prohibited acts, of Microsoft and Turbine.


Given the levels of comedy crazy involved here, I guess it's not really surprising that TianZi doesn't know who is in charge at EA Mythic, or more accurately, Mythic (http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/07/ea-mythic-now-m.html) and appears to be under some illusions as to who Paul actually works for.



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on February 14, 2009, 08:08:45 AM
Barnett disclosed some time ago that he would be returning to GW after WAR's launch. His sole responsibility while working with the staff of EA Mythic was to ensure that the game's content was consistent with the Warhammer IP, e.g. the appearance of the Chosen in WAR should be consistent with how GW has depicted Chosen in the past. He had nothing to do with the core design of the game.

That might have been true until the climbed the ladder at Mythic and became Creative Director (http://www.mmognation.com/2007/05/16/face-the-nation-paul-barnett-pt-1/). With hiring and firing powers - the whole "burn the heretic; three-star talent and five-star drive" thing.

He's GW and he's Mythic and he's a consultant. He can leave Mythic and go back to GW with (true or not) tales of how Jacobs is completely to blame here. Or go back to being a consultant on a higher wage because he's been the Creative Director at a multi-million dollar company.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on February 14, 2009, 08:39:50 AM
That's some delicious crazy right there.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: March on February 14, 2009, 09:28:16 AM
Since UnSub linked it...

Quote from: MMOG Nation
MMOG Nation: For folks who don’t necessarily have a good grasp of where you’re coming from, could you give us a sense of what led you to your position [Creative Director] on the Warhammer project?

Paul Barnett: Complete flukes, and mistakes and bureaucratic errors, and the inability for someone to look at the work I’ve done and realize I’m a charlatan and a fraud. How does that sound?

I wouldn't even know where to start with the green, if we still used green.

The thing is... I liked Paul's rants, I liked his enthusiasm and theoretical direction the game was going... I had high hopes.  Then I got in to beta in 2007 and could only scratch my head (until head-scratching was forbidden to beta testers).

I liked DAoC, Mythic, Mark, Paul, the worker bees and the server hampsters.  I have no axe to grind, only love to give.

But there's a pooch in the room with a bleeding asshole... I'm not close enough to know who at Mythic has the bloody dick, but I suspect there are more than a few who would be afraid to lower their trousers.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on February 14, 2009, 10:58:38 AM
Oh MY! Sister, the claws are out!


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lantyssa on February 14, 2009, 01:07:59 PM
Purposefully getting Jessica's pronouns wrong?  What a classy guy this TianZi is.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on February 14, 2009, 02:39:18 PM
Well it's been a month and a half since the last subs number was tallied. Anyone guessing the over-under of 300,000 currently?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Threash on February 14, 2009, 03:08:10 PM
Well it's been a month and a half since the last subs number was tallied. Anyone guessing the over-under of 300,000 currently?

Around 250k is my guess.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: HaemishM on February 14, 2009, 07:41:28 PM
I'd just scratched the surface really.

(Starfucker Crazy)

Holy shit. That fucker humps more leg than both my male dogs.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: rk47 on February 14, 2009, 09:09:25 PM
I'd just scratched the surface really.

(Starfucker Crazy)

Holy shit. That fucker humps more leg than both my male dogs.
(http://www.myspaceantics.com/images/funny/girl-and-a-dog.jpg)


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: TianZi on February 16, 2009, 01:23:14 AM
I'd just scratched the surface really.

Nice try, but I am not the vn board user tianzi38. "Tianzi" is a common user name for people who speak Chinese, just as "Archangel", etc. is for people who speak English.

Wiki:

Tianzi, a pinyin of the title (天子) used to describe the Emperor of China

Google the term.



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on February 16, 2009, 02:19:49 AM
I'd just scratched the surface really.

Nice try, but I am not the vn board user tianzi38. "Tianzi" is a common user name for people who speak Chinese, just as "Archangel", etc. is for people who speak English.

Wiki:

Tianzi, a pinyin of the title (天子) used to describe the Emperor of China

Google the term.


You didn't hide your email address in your f13 profile, although you have now, tianzi38 gave the exact same email address in this vn post (http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/90200061/r90268741/).  Feel free to tell me that sharing one email address is also a common thing for people who speak Chinese.  I'd link your warhammer alliance profile and the post where you got the name of Mythic's CEO wrong, but this is more fun.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Megrim on February 16, 2009, 02:21:57 AM
f13.net

internet detectives


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Triforcer on February 16, 2009, 04:00:05 AM
This thread is suddenly going places.  And AP earns his title once again.  :awesome_for_real:

I did think all Chinese people shared one email address on the one computer in the country.  Is this not the case?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on February 16, 2009, 04:12:58 AM
He's not Chinese, he just speaks it.  I believe he's from the USA but lives in Taiwan.  It's 100% definitely the same person, his email address from f13 gave the vn post as the first google hit, that's why I quoted it in the first post, so tracking him wasn't in any way difficult.  I never expected him to be crazy enough to deny it though.  :drill:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Jherad on February 16, 2009, 05:26:48 AM
...

Ho ho ho, I'd stop now if I were you.

Or not. This thread is looking up.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Merusk on February 16, 2009, 06:14:57 AM
He's not Chinese, he just speaks it.  I believe he's from the USA but lives in Taiwan.  It's 100% definitely the same person, his email address from f13 gave the vn post as the first google hit, that's why I quoted it in the first post, so tracking him wasn't in any way difficult.  I never expected him to be crazy enough to deny it though.  :drill:

Yeah, that's some bigtime  :uhrr:.  I'd done the same search Friday while bored at work, I just didn't post the results. I figured anyone interested could have clicked his profile, found the e-mail and done the same thing.. well until he hid it. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on February 16, 2009, 07:43:10 AM
snap


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Gorky on February 16, 2009, 07:43:49 AM
He's not Chinese, he just speaks it.  I believe he's from the USA but lives in Taiwan.  It's 100% definitely the same person, his email address from f13 gave the vn post as the first google hit, that's why I quoted it in the first post, so tracking him wasn't in any way difficult.  I never expected him to be crazy enough to deny it though.  :drill:

Ugh, you could'nt have just kept quite while he posted some more gems could you? way to go spoil my day. Had great expectations from our visitor. Next time, just keep quite, giggling to yourself and after we've wrung all the fun from them, THEN go TA-DAA! Gotcha!


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Triforcer on February 16, 2009, 07:48:39 AM
He's not Chinese, he just speaks it.  I believe he's from the USA but lives in Taiwan.  It's 100% definitely the same person, his email address from f13 gave the vn post as the first google hit, that's why I quoted it in the first post, so tracking him wasn't in any way difficult.  I never expected him to be crazy enough to deny it though.  :drill:

Ugh, you could'nt have just kept quite while he posted some more gems could you? way to go spoil my day. Had great expectations from our visitor. Next time, just keep quite, giggling to yourself and after we've wrung all the fun from them, THEN go TA-DAA! Gotcha!

Sometimes you can bring them to a boil after only they post only once or twice.  If we're lucky, he'll blog about how meanly he was treated and then have his boyfriend post in the thread about how we can nuke the website and as proof here are some leftover read-only scripts from the site's backend! 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Bismallah on February 16, 2009, 07:56:45 AM
He's not Chinese, he just speaks it.  I believe he's from the USA but lives in Taiwan.  It's 100% definitely the same person, his email address from f13 gave the vn post as the first google hit, that's why I quoted it in the first post, so tracking him wasn't in any way difficult.  I never expected him to be crazy enough to deny it though.  :drill:

Hah, nice.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Delmania on February 16, 2009, 08:11:20 AM
Once again, a thread relating to Warhammer Online gets derailed and ends up more interesting that the original topic!


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on February 16, 2009, 08:20:50 AM
Ugh, you could'nt have just kept quite while he posted some more gems could you? way to go spoil my day. Had great expectations from our visitor. Next time, just keep quite, giggling to yourself and after we've wrung all the fun from them, THEN go TA-DAA! Gotcha!

He's still posting (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/member.php?u=10120), if you want to follow him around.

I'd agree that he certainly won't post here again though.
Unless he's real crazy, crazy enough to get trolled by the single sentence above.

Edit Changed linked thread to the user profile, his recent thread about 300,000 WAR subs in the RVR forum (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=65) has been deleted, if you scroll down it still lists the missing thread as Tianzi, Thread deleted by Tharik, Reason: Intent to provoke


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: raydeen on February 16, 2009, 09:00:09 AM
Tianzi can also translate to 'thejeni' in Cantonese.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Ironwood on February 16, 2009, 09:29:03 AM
Ah.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on February 16, 2009, 05:26:15 PM
So was he banned from f13 or are we just assuming he's so embarrassed that he's never going to post here again?

I wouldn't ban him from f13 if I were you, you don't want an class action lawsuit against you.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Hindenburg on February 16, 2009, 05:30:53 PM
Wasn't banned. Posts from banned users show as posts from guests.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on February 16, 2009, 06:03:39 PM
Wasn't banned, just pwned hard several times. Next stage will be coming back under a different account or returning to defend Mythic during their next break with reality. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on February 16, 2009, 06:56:21 PM
Wasn't banned. Posts from banned users show as posts from guests.
Wrong, those are users that are just outright deleted.

And no, he wasn't banned.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Merusk on February 16, 2009, 08:31:10 PM
He's not a regular. He's been registered since 2004 and made 7 posts, 3 of which are in this thread.  I imagine he'll wander by sometime again and post something pithy that he thinks settles things on his terms and makes us all out to be asses.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Azazel on February 17, 2009, 12:50:07 AM
Meh, we don't need some fly-by-nighter to make us out to be asses...  :drillf:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Delmania on February 17, 2009, 09:17:47 AM
He's not a regular. He's been registered since 2004 and made 7 posts, 3 of which are in this thread.  I imagine he'll wander by sometime again and post something pithy that he thinks settles things on his terms and makes us all out to be asses.

We're not?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on February 17, 2009, 09:48:57 AM
Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more. (http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=19274&st=0&p=222018&#entry222018)

Quote from: TianZi
Well, semi-retired. I am still a licensed member of the Virginia State Bar, and also have a license from the Taiwan Ministry of Justice to practice foreign and international law on an independent basis in that country (I live in Taipei). I don't do that much actual work now, that's all. It certainly beats being obese, and working 12+ hour days under enormous pressure 6 or even 7 days a week, and that was me, day after day, year after year, until a couple of years ago--I was well on my way to an early grave like many other members of my family.

I read voraciously, play chess, and try to maintain proficiency in Mandarin Chinese, all of which are good for my mind.

Another post on the same forum (http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=21057&st=0&p=233261&#entry233261)

Quote from: TianZi
Let's see if I understand this correctly.

So you believe I'd enhance the bioavailability of my 500mg Biotivia Transmax resveratrol by simply cutting open the resveratrol capsule, cutting open my soy lecithin capsules, mixing the contents of both in a glass of water, and then drinking the water on an empty stomach? That's the "liquid suspension"?

By the way, do you have a link handy to the article in Nature magazine in which Sirtris discloses some details of their proprietary resveratrol formulation?

Confused?  You shouldn't be when you consider that the forum in question is ImmInst.org (http://imminst.org/about), Immortality Institute - Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans.

Quote
The Immortality Institute (ImmInst.org) is an international, not-for-profit, membership-based organization ("501-3-c status" in the United States).

Its mission is "to conquer the blight of involuntary death".

 :drill:  No wonder he's so interested in mmorpg's, playing them requires lots of time and he's got plenty.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: HaemishM on February 17, 2009, 09:55:49 AM
So he's SirBruce if Bruce had become a lawyer?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Delmania on February 17, 2009, 10:34:10 AM
Quote
The Immortality Institute (ImmInst.org) is an international, not-for-profit, membership-based organization ("501-3-c status" in the United States).

Its mission is "to conquer the blight of involuntary death".

I'm cringing at this "About" page.  It's like someone with only a basic grasp of science but a big imagination threw some words together and called it a day.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: raydeen on February 17, 2009, 12:05:54 PM
Best line:

" Okay, well you sound like one strong impressive guy.  "

Maybe it's just how I'm hearing it in my head. It has a lovely green ring to it.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on February 17, 2009, 12:08:16 PM
Haha wow. It's a Portal of Evil exhibit come to life right here. So awesome.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on February 17, 2009, 12:55:52 PM
TIANZI JOINED THE DARK SIDE?!


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Sheepherder on February 17, 2009, 01:26:08 PM
Quote
Resveratrol is a phytoalexin produced naturally by several plants when under attack by pathogens such as bacteria or fungi. Resveratrol has also been produced by chemical synthesis[1] and is sold as a nutritional supplement derived primarily from Japanese knotweed. In mouse and rat experiments, anti-cancer, anti-inflammatory, blood-sugar-lowering, chelating and other beneficial cardiovascular effects of resveratrol have been reported. Most of these results have yet to be replicated in humans. In the only positive human trial, extremely high doses (3–5 g) of resveratrol in a special proprietary formulation have been necessary to significantly lower blood sugar.

 :heart: Wikipedia


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Morfiend on February 17, 2009, 02:11:29 PM
I... Wow... Errr...

Amazing.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nevermore on February 17, 2009, 03:07:57 PM
Yeah well, he'll still be around to make stupid posts on random internet forums long after the lot of you are dead.  Mark my words!  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Delmania on February 17, 2009, 07:54:17 PM
Yeah well, he'll still be around to make stupid posts on random internet forums long after the lot of you are dead.  Mark my words!  :why_so_serious:

If Internet forums are a sign of the decline of civilization, why do I want to be around?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on March 09, 2009, 02:04:08 PM
From Mark today (http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/110436022/r110443353/)

Quote
Then you should be very surprised this morning. happy EA reported that our sub numbers were at about 300K recently. I can also happily say that that we are not at 100K and we are doing just fine. If our subs had truly dropped from 300K in Dec. to 100K now, that would indeed be bad. Good thing they didn't eh?

Oh, and the whole 1.2 resulted in people quitting thing. Not according to the numbers I've looking at (and this doesn't take into account new subs from the trials) today.

Sorry to spoil a nice "Sky is falling" thread but...

Mark

I don't believe for a second that they have 300k subs currently, unless by 'recently' he means 3 months ago.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Trippy on March 09, 2009, 02:07:47 PM
Another useless post from Mark.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on March 09, 2009, 02:18:56 PM
Games can die for players very quickly.  But games as businesses take longer to die.  SWG was the best example of this -- game balancing issues, bugs, and a player base that largely got pissed off and left over successive changes.  And while "dead" SWG is still there.  WAR seems identical. 

But I bet with WAR it will quite awhile before 1) there are changes like an increase in XP that people want, or 2) it's really publicly in trouble (e.g. AoC).  It's gonna limp along for at least 2009, unless EA tanks.



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Trippy on March 09, 2009, 03:05:34 PM
Well given that UO is still around, as long as EA manages Mythic staffing levels and expenses, I don't see why they would shut it down.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Montague on March 09, 2009, 03:11:10 PM
From Mark today (http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/110436022/r110443353/)

Quote
Then you should be very surprised this morning. happy EA reported that our sub numbers were at about 300K recently. I can also happily say that that we are not at 100K and we are doing just fine. If our subs had truly dropped from 300K in Dec. to 100K now, that would indeed be bad. Good thing they didn't eh?

Oh, and the whole 1.2 resulted in people quitting thing. Not according to the numbers I've looking at (and this doesn't take into account new subs from the trials) today.

Sorry to spoil a nice "Sky is falling" thread but...

Mark

I don't believe for a second that they have 300k subs currently, unless by 'recently' he means 3 months ago.

Semantics is the last refuge of the scoundrel.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Tannhauser on March 09, 2009, 06:38:56 PM
So Mark's 'happy' they are at 300k when he previously said the game would have to retain 500k subs to be considered a success?

Does this then mean that he's happy his own game is not a success?



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Hindenburg on March 09, 2009, 08:01:45 PM
Means he's happy the game stopping hemorrhaging subs.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Trippy on March 09, 2009, 08:23:31 PM
Means he's happy the game stopping hemorrhaging subs.
He didn't say they weren't, just that they haven't dropped below 100K yet.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Tmon on March 09, 2009, 08:30:23 PM
Glad to know that they are only merging servers because they are so much better at handling concurrent users.  It's a shame they couldn't have optimized that before they bought all those launch servers and hired all that extra launch support staff.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Hindenburg on March 09, 2009, 08:42:31 PM
He didn't say they weren't, just that they haven't dropped below 100K yet.

Hemmhorraging =/= losing. Impossible to lose 500k subs again for now, so, whatever the rate they're losing, it's slower than what it previously was. Hyperbole is serious bzns. The hemmorhage didn't stop because the wound healed, it stopped because there's barely any blood left. Body's still bleeding, it simply isn't gushing.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: HaemishM on March 09, 2009, 10:30:20 PM
Well given that UO is still around, as long as EA manages Mythic staffing levels and expenses, I don't see why they would shut it down.


UO doesn't have what I'm sure is onerus licsensing fees to a blood sucking sack of shit company like Games Workshop either.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Trippy on March 09, 2009, 10:31:52 PM
That's true.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on March 10, 2009, 01:42:56 AM
Aaaaaaaaand we go from a post where mark says subs are fine to:
The planned closing and merging of 43 servers.

Amazing. You really can't make this stuff up.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Triforcer on March 10, 2009, 01:45:04 AM
Is MJ a lawyer?  After a day spent going through insanely complicated pharmaceutical contracts, I'm still impressed by that statement.  It SEEMS to give good news, but the exact word choice tingles my lawyerly spidey sense so hard the desk is shaking.  


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on March 10, 2009, 01:59:48 AM
'at' 'about' 'recently'

re⋅cent
   /ˈrisənt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ree-suhnt] Show IPA
–adjective
1.    of late occurrence, appearance, or origin; lately happening, done, made, etc.: recent events; a recent trip.
2.    not long past: in recent years.
3.    of or belonging to a time not long past.



Mark IS right, they were at 300k recently. Back in December.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Trippy on March 10, 2009, 02:57:06 AM
Aaaaaaaaand we go from a post where mark says subs are fine to:
The planned closing and merging of 43 servers.

Amazing. You really can't make this stuff up.
http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=688


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: IainC on March 10, 2009, 02:59:38 AM
Is MJ a lawyer?  After a day spent going through insanely complicated pharmaceutical contracts, I'm still impressed by that statement.  It SEEMS to give good news, but the exact word choice tingles my lawyerly spidey sense so hard the desk is shaking.  
Yes he was. He was also a stand-up comedian for a bit too apparently.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Trippy on March 10, 2009, 03:04:56 AM
How about Minister of Information? :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Tannhauser on March 10, 2009, 05:05:58 AM
A lawyer, a comedian AND a game dev?  This man must have zero self-esteem.


I keed, I keed!


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Bismallah on March 10, 2009, 06:39:39 AM
Most folks have caught on to Mark's clever guises. Use of "recently" is very telling there, without indicating an exact number, yet stating that they were over 100k.

Like others have posted, WAR will keep trudging along until another fantasy genre based game comes out to give it some competition with the "ohhh shiny" crowd. Say if Darkfall pulls 50-75k away in combination with normal attrition because they are tired of WAR will a big double whammy.

I'd say, and it's not a far off estimate for most here, that within one year of release WAR will already be on serious life support and down to a handful of "live" servers with an active population (defined as having enough people to actually play the game as they intended, few hundred per side online at a time).


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soulflame on March 10, 2009, 10:32:45 AM
Didn't the game recently release in Russia?  If so, maybe part of those numbers are from there.

I can't imagine they currently have 300k EU and US subscribers, but maybe they do.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Megrim on March 10, 2009, 10:35:01 AM
Mythic are duds. Everyone who cares about pvp in Russia is playing EvE.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lantyssa on March 10, 2009, 11:20:50 AM
Sweet.  I think I'm about to get to test my question from the last page with the Avelorn to Ostermark transfer.  The automatic transfer already failed since my Chaos characters were all on Ostermark.

Are there any other RP servers left?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Triforcer on March 10, 2009, 11:37:34 AM
WAR just needs a bold, visionary Head Designer to take them back to the top.

http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/03/06/a-brief-meta-note/

Mission Accomplished!


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Hindenburg on March 10, 2009, 12:53:07 PM
Are there any other RP servers left?
Chaos Wastes. It's also getting nuked.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lum on March 10, 2009, 01:09:21 PM
WAR just needs a bold, visionary Head Designer to take them back to the top.

http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/03/06/a-brief-meta-note/

Mission Accomplished!

Yeeeeeah, I'm pretty low on the list (http://www.brokentoys.org/2008/08/01/burn-them-at-the-stake/) of their prospective hires.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lantyssa on March 10, 2009, 01:18:31 PM
Are there any other RP servers left?
Chaos Wastes. It's also getting nuked.
Awesome.  Say g'bye to my Swordmaster and a horde of alts in their teens who will be stuck in limbo.  This is just the kind of draw needed to bring me back.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on March 10, 2009, 02:28:42 PM
Sure it is. You BETTER COME BACK! or you'll lose your characters!


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: raydeen on March 10, 2009, 02:37:37 PM
I held a mass funeral for mine. They were too beautiful for Mythic's world.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: tazelbain on March 10, 2009, 02:44:16 PM
Hmm, pretty stupid to delete them.  But we are talking about Mythic.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Hindenburg on March 10, 2009, 03:04:52 PM
Did they ever say that they were gonna delete the leftover chars?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lantyssa on March 10, 2009, 03:38:07 PM
No, however if there really is only one RP server as someone said, I can't actually transfer them anywhere.

What happens to un-transferred characters will depend how they have their databases set up.  It could still be interesting to see what happens on the more common server types.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on March 10, 2009, 03:57:25 PM
WAR just needs a bold, visionary Head Designer to take them back to the top.

http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/03/06/a-brief-meta-note/

Mission Accomplished!

Yeeeeeah, I'm pretty low on the list (http://www.brokentoys.org/2008/08/01/burn-them-at-the-stake/) of their prospective hires.

Get me tickets to the next blizzcon kk?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Merusk on March 10, 2009, 05:31:22 PM
WAR just needs a bold, visionary Head Designer to take them back to the top.

http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/03/06/a-brief-meta-note/

Mission Accomplished!

Yeeeeeah, I'm pretty low on the list (http://www.brokentoys.org/2008/08/01/burn-them-at-the-stake/) of their prospective hires.

You reactionary, job-hopping flibbertigibbet!  You're just taking seekret job after seekret job to drive all of us insane. We know it!


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lum on March 10, 2009, 07:02:44 PM
Hi, this isn't about me, thanks. Go post about me in the appropriate company thread!  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on March 10, 2009, 07:14:34 PM
In truth, has any warhammer thread made been really about warhammer?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Delmania on March 10, 2009, 08:07:08 PM
In truth, has any warhammer thread made been really about warhammer?

Most start off about Warhammer, but are easily derailed because pretty much anything is better than that game.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on March 10, 2009, 11:20:40 PM
Hi, this isn't about me, thanks. Go post about me in the appropriate company thread!  :awesome_for_real:

and what company might that be good Sir?   :grin:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Triforcer on March 10, 2009, 11:24:26 PM
My Blizzard "next MMO" spidey sense is tingling, for some reason.  Please Lum, no arenas!!


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: WindupAtheist on March 11, 2009, 01:03:43 AM
That would be awesome. Having even a minor Blizzard dev posting here would unleash a perpetual tardstorm on the order of the Great Mark Jacobs Starfucking Debacle.

EDIT:  Fuck you, I still do green.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on March 11, 2009, 01:12:14 AM
Nonsense! Lum is an SOE Man now!  :why_so_serious: (y'know, it's a  :why_so_serious: even if it is true)


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Triforcer on March 11, 2009, 02:19:58 AM
That would be awesome. Having even a minor Blizzard dev posting here would unleash a perpetual tardstorm on the order of the Great Mark Jacobs Starfucking Debacle.

EDIT:  Fuck you, I still do green.

And that's why I think there is a chance it IS Blizzard.  Any other company, any other game, and he could still post here without moronic legions starfucking him.  The fact that he won't say is telling in this regard. 

EDIT:  It could also just be a standard confidentiality agreement regarding an unannounced title by any company.  But confidentiality agreements don't usually require a person to not even disclose the company he works for.  So, I'm sticking with the Blizzard moron-avoidance theory. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Merusk on March 11, 2009, 08:48:24 AM
Hi, this isn't about me, thanks. Go post about me in the appropriate company thread!  :awesome_for_real:

Yes but you're much more interesting than WAR, as shown by the easy derail. 

I'd have posted the same think on your blog but you disabled comments for that bit.   :grin:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lantyssa on March 11, 2009, 09:49:51 AM
We just have to associate his name with all the companies we know so he can keep telling us he doesn't work for them until we get it right.  ;D


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lum on March 11, 2009, 02:06:06 PM
That would be why I'm not actually answering any of that speculation, yes.

Except to say Triforcer's correct, it really is a standard non-dramatic non-disclosure.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on March 11, 2009, 02:10:43 PM
In these times, it's probably appropriate to congratulate you on having a job.   Where it happens to be is unimportant.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Cheddar on March 11, 2009, 09:37:19 PM
We really need a method to get alerted to epic threads.

Wow. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: WindupAtheist on March 12, 2009, 01:19:27 AM
it IS Blizzard.

Triforcer's correct

INTERNET RUMOR MILL, GO GO GO! CONTEXT IS FOR DWEEBS!

Edit: Lum, just straight-up tell us that you do not work for Blizzard. No NDA could possibly prohibit you from truthfully stating that you do not work for a particular company. Also you have to pinky swear, and if you lie may you fry, stick your finger in your eye. Once it's not Blizzard, the speculation will die down substantially entirely.

UNLESS IT IS BLIZZARD! :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on March 12, 2009, 01:30:06 AM
lol


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Redgiant on March 12, 2009, 03:00:46 AM

"Bllizzard announces next-gen RvR MMO using the Madness engine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfUJrLgXC5Q)."  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on March 12, 2009, 03:02:40 AM
Madness engine

Heh.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Kirth on March 12, 2009, 02:08:19 PM
Better hope its not Blizzard:

(http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2007/20070523.jpg)


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on April 29, 2009, 05:23:42 PM
next earnings call is May 5, 2009.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: rk47 on April 30, 2009, 08:47:36 PM
After a few months not playing a FULL GAME account, I got a survey on my mail. Asking why I quit playing their free trial. Come to think of it, I never got one for my unsubbed game account. That's really thoughtful of Mythic.

(https://dl.getdropbox.com/u/829607/failhammer/takeit.jpg)

The ten question test paper starts here:



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on April 30, 2009, 08:49:37 PM
Way to invalidate your opinion with the last 2 questions. :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: rk47 on April 30, 2009, 09:15:48 PM
Way to invalidate your opinion with the last 2 questions. :oh_i_see:

i'm not coming back anyways. I couldn't muster the effort to CTRL + C , CTRL + V your posts here.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on April 30, 2009, 09:21:47 PM
What an awful survey.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Brogarn on May 01, 2009, 09:00:23 PM
That survey is embarrassing.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Brogarn on May 05, 2009, 07:45:49 AM
I finally pulled my head out of my ass. May 9th and WAR is no more on my PC. I'm kinda depressed about it because I looked forward to this game and going back to RvR style gameplay. I liked the lore, the world, and some of the classes but I can't justify their shit anymore. That doesn't mean that I didn't have fun; I did. I just disagree with the direction they're going and I can't put up with their lack of quality control anymore.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: rk47 on May 05, 2009, 12:27:34 PM
I finally pulled my head out of my ass. May 9th and WAR is no more on my PC. I'm kinda depressed about it because I looked forward to this game and going back to RvR style gameplay. I liked the lore, the world, and some of the classes but I can't justify their shit anymore. That doesn't mean that I didn't have fun; I did. I just disagree with the direction they're going and I can't put up with their lack of quality control anymore.

can i haf ur stuf ?  :awesome_for_real:

grats on letting go. Good luck on the survey.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: tazelbain on May 05, 2009, 12:31:50 PM
Ya, don't fuck up the the survey. We are counting on you to knock some sense into Mythic.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Hawkbit on May 05, 2009, 01:19:03 PM
There's not a hammer big enough, I'd wager.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Brogarn on May 05, 2009, 01:19:38 PM
can i haf ur stuf ?  :awesome_for_real:

Yes.

Ya, don't fuck up the the survey. We are counting on you to knock some sense into Mythic.

I will give it all the seriousness, effort and time that I feel it deserves.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: tazelbain on May 05, 2009, 01:22:00 PM
Ahh, damn, we're fucked then.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lantyssa on May 05, 2009, 01:33:03 PM
No, not us.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: squirrel on May 05, 2009, 02:11:01 PM
EA earnings call is at 2 PM PST today. Should be interesting.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on May 05, 2009, 03:17:56 PM
If Mythic can redefine the second, I'm certain they'll have no problems redefining a "subscriber". 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: HaemishM on May 05, 2009, 03:26:35 PM
Why not? They redefined PVP endgame to mean "a game full of endless PVE raiding wherein you might, at some point in time before the server crashes, get to fight one or two other real people before getting one-shotted by the keep lord."


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: shiznitz on May 05, 2009, 03:42:56 PM
Nothing in today's EA earnings release about WAR numbers. We will have to wait for the 10K filing.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Bismallah on May 05, 2009, 03:43:57 PM
Here's the link folks: http://investor.ea.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=381903

At least I think it is, hell I dunno.

Apparently from the conference call: http://www.vg247.com/2009/05/05/warhammer-online-ended-march-with-300000-subs/

If that includes NA, Europe and Russia, ouch.




Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on May 05, 2009, 04:24:26 PM
It has to, no way in shit it is only US/Europe. Even then, USA/EU/Russia equals 300k? Whatever, not going to say its wrong but... whatever.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Hayduke on May 05, 2009, 04:50:23 PM
There's only three Russian servers, so it's not too significant.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on May 05, 2009, 04:50:32 PM
I could see it being 300k. LOTRO is likely right in that area on a smaller number of servers so... I think it's the server numbers that make it feel so awful. Well, amongst other reasons. Which begs the question, what crack were they smoking when they launched with that many servers? Were they expecting 8million subs?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lantyssa on May 05, 2009, 05:12:12 PM
Does someone need to dig up the Jacob's quote about 500k being a failure?  So, um, yes they did.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: fuser on May 05, 2009, 05:28:28 PM
Previous quarter results was:

Quote from: http://news.ea.com/portal/site/ea/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090203006591&newsLang=en
Warhammer® Online: Age of Reckoning®, an MMO from EA’s Mythic Entertainment studio, ended the quarter with over 300K paying subscribers in North America and Europe.

Now @300k ? Looks like it's bleeding out slowly. It's interesting how its not even mentioned in this quarters release... grimm? maybe not but they sure are hiding it away from investors and the news.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on May 05, 2009, 05:34:15 PM
Previous quarter results was:

Quote from: http://news.ea.com/portal/site/ea/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090203006591&newsLang=en
Warhammer® Online: Age of Reckoning®, an MMO from EA’s Mythic Entertainment studio, ended the quarter with over 300K paying subscribers in North America and Europe.

Now @300k ? Looks like it's bleeding out slowly. It's interesting how its not even mentioned in this quarters release... grimm? maybe not but they sure are hiding it away from investors and the news.
300k essentially worldwide. I wouldn't call that a slow bleed. Didn't they sell 1.5-2.0M worldwide?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on May 05, 2009, 05:39:02 PM
If they have half that many next quarter, I'll be surprised.  When I quit playing, many of the larger guilds were talking about giving it up.  As soon as something new releases, WAR players will jump ship in droves.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: fuser on May 05, 2009, 06:02:17 PM
Previous quarter results was:

Quote from: http://news.ea.com/portal/site/ea/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090203006591&newsLang=en
Warhammer® Online: Age of Reckoning®, an MMO from EA’s Mythic Entertainment studio, ended the quarter with over 300K paying subscribers in North America and Europe.

Now @300k ? Looks like it's bleeding out slowly. It's interesting how its not even mentioned in this quarters release... grimm? maybe not but they sure are hiding it away from investors and the news.
300k essentially worldwide. I wouldn't call that a slow bleed. Didn't they sell 1.5-2.0M worldwide?

ended the quarter with over 300K paying subscribers in North America and Europe. that was Feb. I thought Russia was before 2009 but it was after then, so yeah its even worse.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on May 06, 2009, 01:58:47 AM
Despite opening in some potentially major markets - Russia was February (http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=608) - WAR has shown no growth in player numbers since launch. I'm guessing the paying accounts of some of the new markets are covering holes left in the US and Western Europe.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on May 06, 2009, 03:22:25 AM
Language translation costs money, I don't see how a long term strategy of replacing cancelled subscribers by releasing WAR in a new region can be maintained for long.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on May 06, 2009, 04:00:33 AM
They'll run out of regions quickly enough.

I'll be interested to see if World of Fight is going to be Warhammer in China. It would be WAR but without a lot of the Warhammer IP, to take a potshot at what the Chinese Morals Police might consider acceptable. Yes, that's right: WAR stripped of IP and down to its underlying mechanics.  :grin:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on May 06, 2009, 06:35:08 AM
When Aion launches in NA it will take many of those subs, including mine


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waylander on May 06, 2009, 08:06:49 AM
If they have half that many next quarter, I'll be surprised.  When I quit playing, many of the larger guilds were talking about giving it up.  As soon as something new releases, WAR players will jump ship in droves.

Last night we pulled a triple zone lock and triple fort push operation on Dark Crag. One fort in the Human pairing was in the bag, another fort in the Elf pairing had 20 mins on its timer and required Order to defend, and one fort in the Dwarf pairing was about to go down due to being overrun by our forces.  BOOM! Zone crash.  The timer on the Elf pairing was winding down by the time we all got back in so people went over to the Dwarf fort, nasty PUG's ran to the Dwarf Fort to cause supply line issues, and we all just logged out for the night.

The population cap in zones and forts really screws organized guilds. We often plan big operations, and then when PUG's see zone lock messages going off they all go flood the pairing for their RVR tokens and free renown.  With the RVR tokens they ALWAYS flood the fortress now, and then they sit around dead waiting for rez's that rarely come, and taking up supply line spots.

War has to drastically overhaul its T4 system or I think Q2 and Q3 are going to show a big decline unless they expand to a new area like Asia and get lots of new subs.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Bismallah on May 06, 2009, 02:27:18 PM
I'm surprised you can get anything with a large guild organized in WAR. You have so much going against you with regards to playing together, staying grouped up, group dynamics, etc...


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on May 06, 2009, 02:31:16 PM
It's pretty easy. 

Step 1: form a closed WB

Step 2: run WB into a zerg

Step 3: while in lag hell, the WP's macro spam their ae/group heals while the BW's macro spam their ae damage. 

Step 4. Collect rewards

Step 5: Return to step 2.

Awesome fun.  It's almost unbelievable that WAR isn't a big hit.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on May 06, 2009, 02:49:15 PM
It's pretty easy. 

Step 1: form a closed WB

Step 2: run WB into a zerg

Step 3: while in lag hell, the WP's macro spam their ae/group heals while the BW's macro spam their ae damage. 

Step 4. Collect rewards

Step 5: Return to step 2.

Awesome fun.  It's almost unbelievable that WAR isn't a big hit.  :why_so_serious:

Haha so true.  As a melee class(WH) I have learned that I get more reknown killing solo and avoid the big zergs which is a bonus cause of the lag anyhow.  I have figured out that if X keep is under attack I go to their main route to it and pick off people solo :)  The added bonus is I get the loot and tokens without having to roll agaisnt level 33 newbs who cant use them anyhow


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Segoris on May 06, 2009, 09:09:37 PM
Wow that stealth game sounds familiar.

Haha so true.  As a melee class(WH any assassin) I have learned that I get more reknown realm points killing solo and avoid the big zergs which is a bonus cause of the lag anyhow.  I have figured out that if X keep is under attack I go to their main route to it, or milegate, and pick off people solo :) 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on May 06, 2009, 09:12:19 PM
Stealth at milegates... haven't heard that lingo since old frontiers.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Segoris on May 06, 2009, 09:23:24 PM
Stealth at milegates... haven't heard that lingo since old frontiers.

Milegates, bridges, paths, whatever, just choke points in general. It's the same crap but just on a different day


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on May 07, 2009, 10:29:45 AM
I just noticed the Mythic forums have sequential user ids.

Last user to register.

http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=37664

First user to register on 30th April (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=36965), Last user to register 6th May (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=37619)

Total for last full week, 655 user accounts created.  Obviously it's only showing forum accounts so it doesn't really mean anything.



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Tarami on May 07, 2009, 10:34:41 AM
Your grief title is well-deserved. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on May 07, 2009, 10:52:21 AM
Yeah well  :tinfoil:

It still really doesn't mean anything, but I like things like this, so last eight full weeks.

 12th March first (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=29040) to 18th March last (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=30842)
 19th March first (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=30843) to 25th March last (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=32179)
 26th March first (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=32180) to 1st April last (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=33349)
 2nd April first (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=33350) to 8th April last (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=34251)
 9th April first (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=34252) to 15th April last (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=35100)
 16th April first (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=35101) to 22nd April last (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=36233)
 23rd April first (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=36234) to 29th April last (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=36964)
 30th April first (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=36965) to 6th May last (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=37619)

New forum accounts created.
1803
1337
1170
902
849
1133
731
655


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on May 07, 2009, 05:40:30 PM
Related news I saw on cesspit.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/05/06/eve-online-is-six-years-old-today/

Quote
Eve Online Is Six Years Old Today

“In the past couple days we surpassed the impressive milestone of 300,000 active subscribers. That doesn’t include trial accounts. We’ve broken our peak concurrent user record 3 times this year alone, standing now at an impressive 53,850 in the same universe. That is exponential growth. We couldn’t think of a better birthday present than having more people playing EVE Online than ever before.”




Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: DLRiley on May 07, 2009, 10:29:05 PM
Mythic wishes it can get 100,000 players to buy 3 alt accounts. That would solve all their problems.   :awesome_for_real::drill:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on May 08, 2009, 07:59:48 AM
It solved all of EVE's.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on May 08, 2009, 06:42:47 PM
Arthur you do some impressive-ass research.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on May 08, 2009, 07:16:46 PM
EA will not be happy with 300k and they are not idiots.  They are more concerned with trends and moving averages.

Paul's still vidblogging.  May 6, 2009 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPun-6ZGK4E)  I didn't bother watching, so not sure if there's anything in in it.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on May 09, 2009, 09:40:25 AM
1) He looked exhausted. Lacked a lot of energy in his delivery.

2) Said "game changing" several times.  :oh_i_see:

3) Was about Land of the Dead, with Paul describing the clips that will be released to promote it. So: a vidblog about video clips.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: fuser on May 09, 2009, 03:22:28 PM
1) He looked exhausted. Lacked a lot of energy in his delivery.

Looks like a hotel room, and he mentions there for X-Play taping leaving on a plane etc so probably something jet lagged induced :)

Ah here's the taping/preview on X-Play

http://g4tv.com/xplay/previews/38134/Warhammer-Online-Call-to-Arms-Necropolis-Preview.html

Interesting part of the video, "our biggest rvr battle so far was in the 450 people range".


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on May 09, 2009, 04:14:22 PM
Interesting part of the video, "our biggest rvr battle so far was in the 450 people range".

Yeah, remember this quote from last year? (http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/109556050/p1).

Quote from: MarkJacobsEA 11/26/08
1) Some (hopefully all) of the causes of the crashes/performance issues that have occurred during some sieges have been identified. Both are linked to the number of people who are involved in the events. Last night for example we had about 800 people descend on one fortress at the same time. The results of that were indeed a crash unfortunately. Of course, an 800 person battle is certainly large-scale and epic RvR and shows that lots of people are out on the servers engaging in oRvR.

2) The team is working on a server-side fix to solve the crashing issue(s) while we are also looking at whether a 800+ person fortress battle is doable even under the best of conditions.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: fuser on May 09, 2009, 06:05:19 PM

Yeah, remember this quote from last year? (http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/109556050/p1).
Quote from: MarkJacobsEA 11/26/08
800 people descend on one fortress at the same time. The results of that were indeed a crash unfortunately. Of course, an 800 person battle

Indeed! I was searching for that, I bow to you :drill:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: tmp on May 09, 2009, 08:24:55 PM
450 people could've been the "biggest rvr battle that didn't end in server crash"

... just sayin'


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Tannhauser on May 10, 2009, 05:01:25 AM
I like Sessler, but I wish he would have asked them why their game is dying.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on May 10, 2009, 07:41:18 AM
I like Sessler, but I wish he would have asked them why their game is dying.

Sessler is one of the shortest men I've ever met.

This has nothing to do with anything, just saying. He's also nicer than I expected. Though I don't really remember, I was well on my way to drunk.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: shiznitz on May 29, 2009, 12:10:47 PM
ended the quarter with over 300K paying subscribers in North America and Europe. that was Feb. I thought Russia was before 2009 but it was after then, so yeah its even worse.

Right. That was for the December period. Now, as of March, the end of the fiscal year, this is the ONLY reference to Warhammer in the entire 10K/Annual:

"Examples of MMOs developed by the EA Games Label include Warhammer ® Online: Age of Reckoning® launched in fiscal year 2009 and Star Wars™: The Old Republic™, which is in development at our BioWare Studio, in collaboration with LucasArts."

So subs have fallen enough from December to not even mention.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Threash on May 29, 2009, 03:08:45 PM
So yeah, about those 450 person rvr battles? they just lowered the caps on forts again.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on May 29, 2009, 03:46:01 PM
Skirmishhammer?    :uhrr:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on May 29, 2009, 04:45:59 PM
So yeah, about those 450 person rvr battles? they just lowered the caps on forts again.

Whoa, what?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: fuser on May 29, 2009, 05:21:40 PM
So yeah, about those 450 person rvr battles? they just lowered the caps on forts again.

Whoa, what?

Quote from: http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=805
In a further effort to improve server stability during Fortress raids, we have adjusted the population cap limits in a Fortress area when the campaign has advanced to the Fortresses. Population caps for both sides have both been slightly lowered, however the ratio of attackers to defenders remains similar.
:pedobear:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: HaemishM on May 29, 2009, 05:54:15 PM
And yet it's somehow a bad thing to just instance the Fortresses?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on May 31, 2009, 05:47:53 AM
Quote from: http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=805
In a further effort to improve server stability during Fortress raids, we have adjusted the population cap limits in a Fortress area when the campaign has advanced to the Fortresses. Population caps for both sides have both been slightly lowered, however the ratio of attackers to defenders remains similar.

Oh goody, the ratio remains the same. Wow. Managing the ratio. Incredible. Especially since the ratio of attackers to defenders remains the same in 4000 vs 4000 and 4 vs 4.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on June 07, 2009, 05:47:53 PM
Noticed the vn boards seem very quiet, so counting official forums accounts again.

 7th May first (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=37620) to 13th May last (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=38282)
 14th May first (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=38283) to 20th May last (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=39047)
 21st May first (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=39048) to 27th May last (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=39617)
 28th May first (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=39618) to 3rd June last (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=40216)

Splitting the last twelve weeks into three groups of four weeks each.

5212 new accounts (1803, 1337, 1170, 902)
3368 new accounts (849, 1133, 731, 655)
2597 new accounts (663, 765, 570, 599)


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on June 08, 2009, 12:30:38 AM
WHA boards are also half at what they were, at least on the daily RvR threads I see.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on June 08, 2009, 01:01:47 AM
I read the official and WHA forums a couple of times a week.  It's obvious that the population has been reduced to the hardcore and most of those will leave when they tire of having nothing to do at RR80. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Trippy on June 08, 2009, 01:56:01 AM
I thought the rewards were such that they could just keep addding RRs as much as they wanted to.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: DLRiley on June 08, 2009, 09:00:23 AM
There is this general illusion that WAR can ultimately survive as a niche game, which is why for example they still insist that cross-server ques for scenarios is a bad idea, despite all the language from EA and Mythic saying otherwise. I'm just waiting for the rude awakening  :drill:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: IainC on June 08, 2009, 09:12:38 AM
There is this general illusion that WAR can ultimately survive as a niche game, which is why for example they still insist that cross-server ques for scenarios is a bad idea, despite all the language from EA and Mythic saying otherwise. I'm just waiting for the rude awakening  :drill:
Cross-server queuing was being put forwards as a solution to underpopulated scenarios back when the projected subscriber numbers were in the range of several millions.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: DLRiley on June 08, 2009, 09:14:28 AM
There is this general illusion that WAR can ultimately survive as a niche game, which is why for example they still insist that cross-server ques for scenarios is a bad idea, despite all the language from EA and Mythic saying otherwise. I'm just waiting for the rude awakening  :drill:
Cross-server queuing was being put forwards as a solution to underpopulated scenarios back when the projected subscriber numbers were in the range of several millions.

So there really is no time limit on stupid  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waylander on June 08, 2009, 03:09:56 PM
A lot of people are taking a break until Patch 1.3. With Mythic not addressing class balance, then the issues people are upset about now will simply continue with the new content.  Mythic devs don't play their game competitively, and due to that they have no friggin clue what to balance or why to balance.

CC is out of control, the lowest damage skills have the highest DPS multipliers, few LOS checks on ranged abilities, etc. Some classes can roll their face across the keyboard and kill entire warbands, and some classes can't kill a dam thing. Its just all fucked up, and then throw in the horrible T4 PVE...err PVP/E game and people are just getting sick of it.

As far as I know, there are nothing but medium and low pop servers now with pervasive population imbalance issues that make everything worse. Niche game? Yeah if Patch 1.3 bombs out, Warhammer will be competing in the sub 150k subscriber market within 6 months.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on June 08, 2009, 03:56:41 PM
Niche game? Yeah if Patch 1.3 bombs out, Warhammer will be competing in the sub 150k subscriber market within 6 months.

My guess is that if it isn't already below 150k in North America alerady, that it's pretty close.  WAR had a great opportunity when you consider the box sales at release.  They just had no clue how to keep the excitement going. 

1.3 will not save WAR.  Neither will the expansion.  The classes are broken.  The engine is horse shit.  The endgame sucks (soo much cc, ae, etc).

Game over. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Bungee on June 08, 2009, 05:45:15 PM
Thank god I was fanboi enough to get me into the beta. Otherwise I could've made the mistake of actually buying Failhammer.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: rattran on June 08, 2009, 07:15:35 PM
I just got their "May" newsletter, and have a few points for Mythic.

  • It's June 8th. May is over.
  • Lots of stuff is the newsletter is outdated and/or incorrect. All that stuff about important class balance etc.
  • I unsubscribed to your fucking newsletter 3 times now. Spamming me isn't going to encourage me to resub to your shitty and broken game.
  • Fuck you.

In conclusion, go fuck yourselves with a handful of broken Warhammer Online cds.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on June 08, 2009, 07:22:49 PM
In conclusion, go fuck yourselves with a handful of broken Warhammer Online cds.

Use these:

(http://stashbox.org/294305/snapit.jpg)


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Delmania on June 08, 2009, 09:17:08 PM
To be honest, the whole breaking of the CDs thing is a rather empty threat, mainly because you can simply download the client..

Anyways, I caved in and am playing the 10 day thing because some of my friends are still enjoying it.  However, not much has changed, and now I have this weird delay between when I do an action and when it shows on the screen.   Also performance on this machine is not better than when I left.   I wouldn't mind playing it only because I have some RL friends playing it and its the best way to stay in touch with them, but my god, I'd be embarassed to admit I was on the Warhammer development team.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on June 08, 2009, 09:43:31 PM
No matter what your friends say, don't pay for a sub.  I went back for a few days to play with some old friends and got cheated out of another $15.  I felt used.  The game was fun for about 7 days until I came to the clear realization that rvr was broken, the game was broken, and no amount of laughter on ventrilo was worth enduring the damn game. 

This coming from a 5+ year DAoC fanboi.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Hawkbit on June 08, 2009, 11:11:39 PM
I hope you recycled that garbage.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Chockonuts on June 09, 2009, 01:34:16 AM
Just wait until whatever colossal faction on each server sets up camp in LOTD.

The game will come to a screeching halt after 3 weeks of that kind of action.  :heartbreak:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on June 10, 2009, 10:57:27 AM
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssTechMediaTelecomNews/idUSBNG49025020090609

Quote
BANGALORE, June 9 (Reuters) - Taiwan-based online gaming software firm GigaMedia Ltd (GIGM.O) reported a fall in quarterly profit, missing estimates by a cent, due to a fall in revenue citing weakness of the euro against the U.S. dollar.

The company said it expects continued revenue pressure through the summer months due to normal seasonality and the effects of the global economic downturn.

The second quarter would remain flat to down sequentially in Asia and down in Europe, Think Equity analyst Atul Bagga said.

The company, however, seems to be confident about its Asian online gaming business in the second half of the year, driven by a strong pipeline.

GigaMedia is launching a slew of titles this year, including Electronic Arts Inc's (ERTS.O) Warhammer Online and NBA Street Online, and a Korean game Luna Online, it said in conference call with analysts.

"Electronic Arts was very positive about Warhammer's response in Taiwan. They said it was well exceeding their expectations," analyst Bagga said.

I suspect "expectations" aren't what they used to be.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Segoris on June 10, 2009, 11:09:07 AM
I suspect "expectations" aren't what they used to be.

Couldn't help but think of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk) when it comes to EA and "expectations"


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Cyrrex on June 10, 2009, 11:39:29 AM
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssTechMediaTelecomNews/idUSBNG49025020090609

Quote
BANGALORE, June 9 (Reuters) - Taiwan-based online gaming software firm GigaMedia Ltd (GIGM.O) reported a fall in quarterly profit, missing estimates by a cent, due to a fall in revenue citing weakness of the euro against the U.S. dollar.

The company said it expects continued revenue pressure through the summer months due to normal seasonality and the effects of the global economic downturn.

The second quarter would remain flat to down sequentially in Asia and down in Europe, Think Equity analyst Atul Bagga said.

The company, however, seems to be confident about its Asian online gaming business in the second half of the year, driven by a strong pipeline.

GigaMedia is launching a slew of titles this year, including Electronic Arts Inc's (ERTS.O) Warhammer Online and NBA Street Online, and a Korean game Luna Online, it said in conference call with analysts.

"Electronic Arts was very positive about Warhammer's response in Taiwan. They said it was well exceeding their expectations," analyst Bagga said.

I suspect "expectations" aren't what they used to be.

If you read the first sentence carefully, they missed their profit estimates "by a cent".  Clearly, they are operating on a very, very small scale here.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: 01101010 on June 10, 2009, 01:07:56 PM
Quote
GigaMedia is launching a slew of titles this year, including Electronic Arts Inc's (ERTS.O) Warhammer Online and NBA Street Online, and a Korean game Luna Online, it said in conference call with analysts.

Would not surprise me in the least if NBA Street does better overall.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Montague on June 10, 2009, 03:05:32 PM
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssTechMediaTelecomNews/idUSBNG49025020090609

Quote
BANGALORE, June 9 (Reuters) - Taiwan-based online gaming software firm GigaMedia Ltd (GIGM.O) reported a fall in quarterly profit, missing estimates by a cent, due to a fall in revenue citing weakness of the euro against the U.S. dollar.

The company said it expects continued revenue pressure through the summer months due to normal seasonality and the effects of the global economic downturn.

The second quarter would remain flat to down sequentially in Asia and down in Europe, Think Equity analyst Atul Bagga said.

The company, however, seems to be confident about its Asian online gaming business in the second half of the year, driven by a strong pipeline.

GigaMedia is launching a slew of titles this year, including Electronic Arts Inc's (ERTS.O) Warhammer Online and NBA Street Online, and a Korean game Luna Online, it said in conference call with analysts.

"Electronic Arts was very positive about Warhammer's response in Taiwan. They said it was well exceeding their expectations," analyst Bagga said.

I suspect "expectations" aren't what they used to be.

If you read the first sentence carefully, they missed their profit estimates "by a cent".  Clearly, they are operating on a very, very small scale here.

Not sure if that was supposed to be green or not, but that's profit per share, not total profit.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Cyrrex on June 10, 2009, 03:09:59 PM
Yeah, I actually was being a smartass.  But really, coming out with statements about how you missed your profit-per-share by one tiny little cent is silly, and makes me think small scale.  For most companies, that'd be called being bang on target.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on June 11, 2009, 06:39:49 PM
Doorhammer Online: Age of Carpentry (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEedUeDJ7Us)

Quote
On low-population servers, the War in Warhammer is removed, and replaced by doors. Stalwart fighters on Order side combat boredom along with Destruction during infrequent keep sieges.

via WHA.

Quote
Nerf saw

-Sincerly, Hammer.

Edit:  PvD combat!


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on June 11, 2009, 07:01:18 PM
Doorhammer Online: Age of Carpentry (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEedUeDJ7Us)

That really does encapsulate the essence of the game.  One side attacks, the other side turtles up.  Lather, rinse, and repeat. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: March on June 11, 2009, 07:06:09 PM
Heh, pretty funny.

Another door feature that I really liked was when the outer door would respawn while the inner door was being worked on... thereby preventing singles or groups from joining the fight... unless they took down the outer door (again).

Not sure if that behavior has been changed, but I sure thought it was neat.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: HaemishM on June 12, 2009, 12:11:19 PM
To be completely fair, that was the traditional method of medieval warfare as well. Armies did all they could to avoid open field battles where the outcome wasn't already determined by overwhelming numbers.

However, that makes for a really shitty shit game. Not to mention that in said medieval warfare, sieges weren't just about breaking down a door. Walls were undermined or bombarded, opening holes in the walls. Some people infiltrated the keeps either by tunneling under or somehow climbing over. And that's without magic. The reason people turtle is because it funnels every single person through one area of attack.

Game = fucked.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: EWSpider on June 12, 2009, 12:27:47 PM
To be completely fair, that was the traditional method of medieval warfare as well. Armies did all they could to avoid open field battles where the outcome wasn't already determined by overwhelming numbers.

However, that makes for a really shitty shit game. Not to mention that in said medieval warfare, sieges weren't just about breaking down a door. Walls were undermined or bombarded, opening holes in the walls. Some people infiltrated the keeps either by tunneling under or somehow climbing over. And that's without magic. The reason people turtle is because it funnels every single person through one area of attack.

Game = fucked.

Which brings us back once again to the whole why is WAR < DAoC mindfuck that no one can get their head around.  DAoC HAD FULLY DESTRUCTIBLE WALLS YEARS AGO.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: 01101010 on June 12, 2009, 01:05:10 PM
Well at least it seems the Mythic crew are consistent with the gimmicks... Oh look, a puzzle! And I have to agree, the game might be crap, but watching the erosion of it is magically delicious.. or horrifying, i can't decide.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?game=239&feature=3128&bhcp=1



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: HaemishM on June 12, 2009, 02:30:27 PM
Seriously, what the fuck? How is that a good use of anyone's fucking time on a game this fucked?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: raydeen on June 12, 2009, 02:41:54 PM
PUZZLE IS EVERYWHERE!


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Montague on June 12, 2009, 02:51:00 PM
I believe it says: "PAUL IS DEAD"


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on June 12, 2009, 02:57:44 PM
I believe it says: "PAUL IS DEAD"

He's absolutely not dead. I haven't resubbed.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Redgiant on June 12, 2009, 05:38:06 PM
I believe it says: "PAUL IS DEAD"

He's absolutely not dead. I haven't resubbed.

Part of me says you didn't quite get it, whiel another part of me thinks you got it better.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on June 12, 2009, 05:58:34 PM
I got it better.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Fordel on June 12, 2009, 06:22:05 PM
To be completely fair, that was the traditional method of medieval warfare as well. Armies did all they could to avoid open field battles where the outcome wasn't already determined by overwhelming numbers.

However, that makes for a really shitty shit game. Not to mention that in said medieval warfare, sieges weren't just about breaking down a door. Walls were undermined or bombarded, opening holes in the walls. Some people infiltrated the keeps either by tunneling under or somehow climbing over. And that's without magic. The reason people turtle is because it funnels every single person through one area of attack.

Game = fucked.


Yea, I was going to say the issue isn't really the door, but the fact the best way to 'defend' the door is to hide behind a corner waiting for the enemy to stream through a 2x2 hallway and explode them in laggy AE death.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Tarami on June 12, 2009, 06:31:28 PM
A substitution cipher that doesn't spell real words? How original.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Ingmar on June 15, 2009, 07:27:11 PM
I hope you recycled that garbage.

Don't worry, even if he didn't, Mythic is sure to in their next MMO.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Tarami on June 15, 2009, 09:10:50 PM
:rimshot:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on June 16, 2009, 04:16:27 AM
Executive Producer's Letter - Part 2 (http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=823)

Quote from: Jeff Hickman
Based heavily on that feedback, our current “Top 5” areas that we are giving significant attention to are:

    1. Addressing concerns related to Crowd Control and Area of Effect abilities.
    2. Continuing to improve client and server stability and performance.
    3. Strengthening and improving the Tier 4 experience.
    4. Improving server population distribution – both in terms of overall population and realm balance.
    5. Improving itemization and the overall distribution of “carrots” (rewards) throughout the game.

While this is not anywhere near a complete list of what we’re working on, I wanted to make it clear that these are major priorities for the team and that we’re applying significant effort, attention and resources to addressing them at the moment and will be the topics of discussion for the final part of my letter.

I like the quoted section above.  Combat, stability, end game, population and loot, all apparently suck.  Part three is going to be fun.

Edit, ok I'm actually starting to feel sorry for them.  Here's the discussion thread on part 2.

Executive Producer's Letter - Part 2 Discussion (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/board/message?board.id=dev_discussions&thread.id=2369&view=by_date_ascending&page=1)

Quote
What I want to knowm, is where is Mark Jacobs and why hasn't he come out to comment on any of this? Is he even still employed there? Without MJ, there is no Mythic other than in company name.

Quote
Post Removed - Inappropriate Language

Quote
Please sort Executive Producer's letters in reverse order next time.
 
Part 3
Part 2
Part 1

Quote
Post Removed - Inflammatory
 
If you have nothing civil and constructive to contribute to the topic at hand, please do not post.
 
Thank you.

Quote
Honestly, the only thing I want right now, is Server Merges.
 
Please please please! Please give us server merges, I dont care how.  We need population.  I would rather have a person I can attack and get an error saying to far away, then not having a person to attack at all.
 
<3 daoc days


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Montague on June 16, 2009, 04:54:18 AM
Quote


Folks, while I understand the interest in Mr. Jacobs, let's keep the discussion on topic about EPL: Part 2, alrighty?


Let the countdown begin till MBJ declares victory and rides off into the sunset.

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s183/ec1016/untitled.jpg)



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Tale on June 16, 2009, 05:45:38 AM
Thank god I was fanboi enough to get me into the beta. Otherwise I could've made the mistake of actually buying Failhammer.

My default attitude towards all upcoming MMORPGs is to ignore them, avoid the beta, and presume they're all going to suck. Unless some kind of positive community buzz that "something's really going on here" reaches me, no time or money changes hands. Warhammer never got onto my radar.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: fuser on June 16, 2009, 07:18:02 AM
Quote
Continuing to improve client and server stability and performance.

WTF? The game has been out for almost a year, missed all subscription targets and they are still trying to fix these issues(and every letter it seems)?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: rk47 on June 16, 2009, 08:52:52 AM
Quote
Continuing to improve client and server stability and performance.

WTF? The game has been out for almost a year, missed all subscription targets and they are still trying to fix these issues(and every letter it seems)?

Bah you guys are playing the wrong version, I'm playing the korean version now and everything that is broken in US version, they fixed.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: HaemishM on June 16, 2009, 10:40:01 AM
Quote
Honestly, the only thing I want right now, is Server Merges.
 
Please please please! Please give us server merges, I dont care how.  We need population.  I would rather have a person I can attack and get an error saying to far away, then not having a person to attack at all.

Wait, haven't they merged down to less than 1 quarter of the number of servers that they had on release? And they still need more? Is it really that fucking bad?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on June 16, 2009, 11:12:12 AM
Wait, haven't they merged down to less than 1 quarter of the number of servers that they had on release? And they still need more? Is it really that fucking bad?

In a word, YES.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: JWIV on June 16, 2009, 01:08:35 PM
My usual Warhammer oppopent and his wife were huge DAOC fans and had been occupying themselves with alts and the like in tiers 1 - 3.   After hitting the endgame recently though . . .   She's already killed her account and he's completely disillusioned with the game and just waiting to see if Tomb Kings somehow manages to drastically improve things.    So yes, the game is that bad.

 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on June 16, 2009, 02:54:02 PM
Quote
Continuing to improve client and server stability and performance.

WTF? The game has been out for almost a year, missed all subscription targets and they are still trying to fix these issues(and every letter it seems)?

yup agreed  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 16, 2009, 05:02:50 PM
Being right never gets old.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Kageru on June 16, 2009, 09:19:46 PM

This game has delivered more laughs than anything since Horizons. I'm just looking forward to see how land of the dead and low population servers interact... should be fascinating.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on June 17, 2009, 09:01:36 AM
The question should be: is this the worst AAA title ever launched? The answer is yes, depending on whether or not you consider Vanguard a AAA title.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Kageru on June 17, 2009, 10:49:35 AM

Vanguard probably beats it, but its failure was a failure of management. Warhammer was a failure of design and thus more interesting to watch though.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: HaemishM on June 17, 2009, 04:27:04 PM
A failure of design followed by a failure of execution immersed in a failure of management vat.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Redgiant on June 17, 2009, 04:32:58 PM

This game has delivered more laughs than anything since Horizons. I'm just looking forward to see how land of the dead and low population servers interact... should be fascinating.


It ain't called Land of the Dead for nuthin'.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: 01101010 on June 17, 2009, 04:40:16 PM

This game has delivered more laughs than anything since Horizons. I'm just looking forward to see how land of the dead and low population servers interact... should be fascinating.


It ain't called Land of the Dead for nuthin'.

Yes, that is the magic of foreshadowing.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: squirrel on June 17, 2009, 07:24:05 PM
A failure of design followed by a failure of execution immersed in a failure of management vat.

It's like the Turducken of fail...


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on June 17, 2009, 07:51:47 PM
So has anyone actually played 1.3 so we can hear how craptacular it is?  Or do I have to burn up my 10 day free resub and waste hours off of my life?

Thanks in advance.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on June 18, 2009, 05:56:14 AM
Wait, haven't they merged down to less than 1 quarter of the number of servers that they had on release? And they still need more? Is it really that fucking bad?

11 page thread entitled in the Ironfist server forum, "Petition to Mythic: Merge or Move us (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/board/message?board.id=server_if&message.id=3067#M3067)"

Quote from: James Mythic
Hey all,
 
We realize that many of you are currently unsatisfied with the population of your server currently. We're actively pursuing ways in which we can alleviate the issues faced with low population while ensuring that larger problems are not created.
 
We want to avoid past situations where significant realm imbalances were created
or leave a number of players who wish to remain on the original server. From past experiences we have a large selection of metrics, and improving the negative aspects is a key goal.
 
We want to ensure everyone has a satisfactory place to call home, however, rushing to do so can alienate even more people due to unforseen repercussions.
 
That said, we know, we've heard you, and want to ensure everyone playing WAR can benefit from the activities of a higher population server.
 
Thanks everyone for your patience and cooperation, we'll discuss this more in the near future.
 
Cheers,

 
James Nichols
Community Forums Manager
Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning

Interesting to see realm balance issues being used to justify not merging.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Tannhauser on June 18, 2009, 06:12:04 AM
I wouldn't expect to see any more server merges before 1.3.  Looks bad.  AFAIK, this game was doomed the minute they bought an engine that can't handle large-scale RvR battles.  You know, the CORE of their game? 

They constantly say they are 'gathering metrics' and 'actively pursuing' things but it's been out almost a year and many launch problems remain unresolved.  I really don't think there is anyone at Mythic who is great at their job.  Hell, I bet even the intern who makes Jacob's coffee burns it.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: 01101010 on June 18, 2009, 07:51:12 AM
There HAS to be a "forest for the trees" joke somewhere in there. Of course, it would lead to a funny :uhrr: laugh rather than a funny  :awesome_for_real: laugh. Gathering data is fantastic, but becomes its own monster when you feel you need more and more of it to take any action. Data paralysis results usually do not fair well in these days of quick and dirty interactions. I blame Twitter and txting bunnies.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Numtini on June 18, 2009, 02:03:39 PM
Quote
They constantly say they are 'gathering metrics'

Wow, gathering metrics, that sure brings back some memories from DAOC.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on June 18, 2009, 02:19:20 PM
http://newsticker.welt.de/?module=smarthouse&id=904689

Quote
GigaMedia Ltd (GIGM) and Mythic Entertainment™, a studio of Electronic Arts Inc. (NASDAQ:ERTS), today announced that the highly acclaimed fantasy MMORPG Warhammer® Online: Age of Reckoning® (WAR) will launch in Taiwan on June 25th
...
Subscription Rates:

Monthly Subscription: 450 NTD
Hourly Time Deduction Fee: 5 NTD.

450 New Taiwan Dollar = $13.72


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Threash on June 18, 2009, 06:00:12 PM
I wouldn't expect to see any more server merges before 1.3.  Looks bad.  AFAIK, this game was doomed the minute they bought an engine that can't handle large-scale RvR battles.  You know, the CORE of their game? 

They constantly say they are 'gathering metrics' and 'actively pursuing' things but it's been out almost a year and many launch problems remain unresolved.  I really don't think there is anyone at Mythic who is great at their job.  Hell, I bet even the intern who makes Jacob's coffee burns it.

!.3 already launched a couple days ago.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on June 18, 2009, 06:09:35 PM
courtesy of VN

(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4508/milkcarton.jpg)


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on June 18, 2009, 06:14:36 PM
courtesy of VN

(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4508/milkcarton.jpg)
looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on June 18, 2009, 06:20:24 PM
I could call him and find out 'what the fuck' but honestly, I'm not interested in some sort of McQuaid redux (I am NOT likening Jacobs to McQuaid on a personal level, that would be insane, they are nothing alike - so don't take what I just said the wrong way).


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Sjofn on June 19, 2009, 01:40:30 AM
Too late, I'm totally telling everyone I know that you said he was EXACTLY LIKE McQuaid.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Kageru on June 19, 2009, 02:44:26 AM

The game that just keeps on giving.

The VNBoards are complaining that the population cap code doesn't work in the new patch. Once it locks in it doesn't recognise the population dropping due to deaths. End result being one faction holding a fort while the other faction (including those who wiped) is entirely locked out leading to an effortless defence unless the keep is defeated on the first attack.

That's some really impressive QA there.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on June 19, 2009, 05:02:57 AM
Interview from October 2008 (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/mmo-war)

Quote
Some analysts have predicted between 200-300 thousand subscribers, do you believe that is an accurate and realistic prediction?

Mark Jacobs: No. I don't think it's a very realistic expectation at all. I read that from one analyst and I think his numbers were way off for the industry. That kind of number, which I think he mentioned, was under 50 per cent [of registered users]. Those numbers are considered very low for the industry, very low.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: tmp on June 19, 2009, 11:28:21 AM

The game that just keeps on giving.

The VNBoards are complaining that the population cap code doesn't work in the new patch. Once it locks in it doesn't recognise the population dropping due to deaths. End result being one faction holding a fort while the other faction (including those who wiped) is entirely locked out leading to an effortless defence unless the keep is defeated on the first attack.

That's some really impressive QA there.

I get a feeling the guy who was supposed to hire 3-star skill people was a 3-star skill employee himself...


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 19, 2009, 01:12:42 PM
War is already on the downslope but blizzard has already added battleground queuing from anywhere and next patch adding battleground exp with talk of adding loot for winning.

Is it me or does it seem like blizzard took warhammers attempt at a coup a little personally and are now twisting the knife?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Montague on June 19, 2009, 01:28:01 PM
Interview from October 2008 (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/mmo-war)

Quote
Some analysts have predicted between 200-300 thousand subscribers, do you believe that is an accurate and realistic prediction?

Mark Jacobs: No. I don't think it's a very realistic expectation at all. I read that from one analyst and I think his numbers were way off for the industry. That kind of number, which I think he mentioned, was under 50 per cent [of registered users]. Those numbers are considered very low for the industry, very low.

 :rofl:

Seeing MBJ hoisted on his own petard never gets old.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Ingmar on June 19, 2009, 02:19:09 PM
War is already on the downslope but blizzard has already added battleground queuing from anywhere and next patch adding battleground exp with talk of adding loot for winning.

Is it me or does it seem like blizzard took warhammers attempt at a coup a little personally and are now twisting the knife?

This is pretty normal for Blizzard, they often lift the best features from other games for their own. I don't think it is twisting the knife rather than an ability to look at other products and say "this is better than how we do it, we should change." Of course, the great irony is that there was all that business about the WAR people not even playing WoW because they would be INFLUENCED by it and might mistake good features for bad - and yet we don't see Blizzard stealing, say, the WAR crafting system.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 19, 2009, 02:23:16 PM
the WAR crafting system.  :oh_i_see:

Ok, I laughed a lot harder than I should have when reading that.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Chockonuts on June 19, 2009, 10:48:59 PM
War is already on the downslope but blizzard has already added battleground queuing from anywhere and next patch adding battleground exp with talk of adding loot for winning.

Is it me or does it seem like blizzard took warhammers attempt at a coup a little personally and are now twisting the knife?
Not only that, Blizzard will allow players to TURN OFF their exp gained from PvP so that they can keep on twinkin'.

They just gave their customers the best of both worlds, which is what some people in WAR players were asking Mythic for ala WoW (/off exp). It does look like twisting the knife a bit.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Goreschach on June 19, 2009, 10:52:01 PM
Euthanasia is more accurate.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Simond on June 20, 2009, 06:41:58 AM
It does look like twisting the knife a bit.
Well, Marc Jacobs did lose his shit at Tigole not long before WAR's launch, remember? Revenge is a dish best served with a heaped side of schadenfreude.  :grin:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Tannhauser on June 20, 2009, 08:52:52 AM
I think Jacobs needs a MMO intervention.

"Look Mark, we all love you, but your games are NOT good.  They hurt people Mark.  They hurt people because they are BAD games.  You've got to stop making MMO's, you're no good at it."

Lame attempt at humor, hey it's early here.  Seriously though, has anyone thought of poaching some of Blizzard's talent?  I know Blizzard/Vivendi probably pays a good size money hat, but EA could offer a money hat sprinkled with cocaine and diamond dust.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Chockonuts on June 20, 2009, 01:24:53 PM


 Seriously though, has anyone thought of poaching some of Blizzard's talent? 

Who in their right minds in this terrible economy is looking to hire 3- star talent?  :ye_gods:

You want 5- star talent that you can snatch up and pay 3- star talent salaries.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on June 20, 2009, 02:00:25 PM
Blizzard's talent goes out on its own and to other developers often enough. Their success has been a mixed bag.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Sir T on June 20, 2009, 06:43:33 PM
Blizzards "talent" leaving to other studios means that when they release a game they have to do it without the Blizzard label of guaranteed success.

I tried Warhammer for a bit. I enjoyed the PVP which was fast pased and enjoyable. but it got stale very quickly for me. Never got to the higher tiers.

The "doorhammer" vid above is fricking hilarious.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Fordel on June 20, 2009, 06:57:33 PM
It isn't just 'talent' though, Blizzard has a whole system from the ground up, one that obviously works and everyone buys into.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on June 21, 2009, 09:22:30 PM
It isn't just 'talent' though, Blizzard has a whole system from the ground up, one that obviously works and everyone buys into.

Yes - Blizzard has a lot of resources (even more now) and has a culture of not shipping titles until they are happy with them. When someone leaves Blizzard, they leave that culture and resource set.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Tmon on June 22, 2009, 09:17:06 AM
Funny thing is that for most of the MMOs I've played I've known who the lead desgner/producer was but I don't really know who filled those roles for WoW.  It's just Blizzard's MMO, which leads me to agree that acquiring talent from Blizzard without also recreating Blizzard's culture isn't the key to the money hat locker.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Trippy on June 22, 2009, 09:33:09 AM
That's correct. Until the release of WoW, Blizzard never bothered to hype its lead designers and other talent. With WoW though they decided to give it a face and Rob Pardo became it, even though he wasn't the original lead designer and only joined late in the project. Allen Adham, who nobody has ever heard of (he was the Producer/Executive Producer on most of Blizzard's titles), is the original lead designer on WoW.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Azazel on June 22, 2009, 09:35:07 AM
Would you jump off a luxury liner to board the Titanic?

EA has money, yes, but Blactivision isn't exactly small potatos. Isn't Blacitivision bigger than EA these days? Probably not the best thing to have on your resume, either.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waylander on June 24, 2009, 11:08:20 AM
Quote
[indent]Today we have important news to share with the community. EA is restructuring its RPG and MMO games development into a new group that includes both Mythic and BioWare. This newly formed team will be led by Ray Muzyka, co-founder and General Manager of BioWare. With this change, Ray becomes Group General Manager of the new  RPG/MMO studio group. BioWare’s other co-founder, Greg Zeschuk will become Group Creative Officer for the new RPG/MMO studio group. Rob Denton will step up as General Manager of Mythic and report to Ray. BioWare’s studios remain unchanged and continue to report to Ray.

Mark Jacobs, current General Manager of Mythic will leave EA on June 23, 2009. We thank Mark for his contributions at Mythic and wish him the very best going forward. Mark played a major part in the success of Mythic with his contribution as General Manager and Lead Designer of WAR.

Mythic retains a strong team led by Rob who co-founded Mythic in 1995. Rob played a critical role in the development of Dark Age of Camelot. In his previous role as COO, he was responsible for all day-to-day management of the studio including all development, operations and support.

Please join us in celebrating the union of these two award-winning studios.[/indent]
Source (http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=841)
[/quote]

This should have happened a long time ago, and I am not sure anything can save Warhammer now. Land of the Dead was poorly done and Patch 1.3 didn't fix major issues players have been griping about for months. Expect a massive exodus when AION releases.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 24, 2009, 11:23:43 AM
Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on June 24, 2009, 11:37:14 AM
Jackass probably getting a douchebag bonus for leaving too.  Guy was useless, clueless and anooying as hell...good riddance


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: 01101010 on June 24, 2009, 11:38:08 AM
shocking... but only like an old person who has been dying for years finally exhaling his last.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on June 24, 2009, 11:43:39 AM
Chalk this up to another MMO person/company I wont play a game of

Brad McQuaid
SOE
Mark Jacobs
Funcom

I know im forgetting 1 or 2 more


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Xuri on June 24, 2009, 11:44:46 AM
Would you jump off a luxury liner to board the Titanic?
Titanic was an unsinkable luxury liner. Before it's ill-fated maiden voyage, would you have jumped off a different, "sinkable" luxury liner to board the Titanic? Not unlikely.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Hawkbit on June 24, 2009, 12:22:11 PM
Well, now he can get around to that "How to run a multi-million dollar investment into the ground by being absolutely out of touch with your customers For Dummies" book that's always needed to be written.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on June 24, 2009, 12:23:20 PM
Needs to take Barnett with him


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: March on June 24, 2009, 12:34:32 PM
I, for one, am sad.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on June 24, 2009, 01:10:33 PM
Well, now he can get around to that "How to run a multi-million dollar investment into the ground by being absolutely out of touch with your customers For Dummies" book that's always needed to be written.

The list of authors for this book would be long indeed. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on June 24, 2009, 01:23:08 PM
Well, now he can get around to that "How to run a multi-million dollar investment into the ground by being absolutely out of touch with your customers For Dummies" book that's always needed to be written.
The list of authors for this book would be long indeed.  
It'd be like Night of a Hundred Stars. An ensemble cast of A-List Celebrities that only do B-List Movies Because they S-uck at their jobs. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Ashamanchill on June 24, 2009, 01:23:39 PM
Not as long as the list of dickheads eager to pick up a copy.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on June 24, 2009, 01:26:11 PM
Seriously, check out this list: http://www.lasplash.com/publish/Celebrity_Talk_102/Night_of_a_Hundred_Stars_-_Where_Beautiful_People_Come_to_Watch_Beautiful_People.php

The most famous person there is Lou Diamond Phillips. loooooooooooooooool


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Bismallah on June 24, 2009, 05:01:21 PM
Soooooo, I wonder what the subs look like  :grin:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on June 24, 2009, 05:40:27 PM
Seriously, check out this list: http://www.lasplash.com/publish/Celebrity_Talk_102/Night_of_a_Hundred_Stars_-_Where_Beautiful_People_Come_to_Watch_Beautiful_People.php

The most famous person there is Lou Diamond Phillips. loooooooooooooooool

Yeah, but Amber Smith's hair is rockin' so cut her some slack.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Azazel on June 27, 2009, 06:21:58 AM
Chalk this up to another MMO person/company I wont play a game of

Brad McQuaid
SOE
Mark Jacobs
Funcom

I know im forgetting 1 or 2 more


Paul Barnett


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waylander on June 29, 2009, 10:22:56 PM
Soooooo, I wonder what the subs look like  :grin:

As many predicted, the Land of the Dead patch killed RVR.  With one faction inside Land of the Dead, the other side has to RVE to gain access. Then they get 15 mins or so of slaughtering small clusters of people engaged with mobs, and once everything is clear the winning side gets to.................................................................PVE!!!!  Man what exciting RVR!!

Expect a mass exodus of subscriptions over the summer. Patch 1.3 was the straw that broke the camels back for many guilds tired of a broken T4 RVR system, and no new producer's letter is going to work on them now.  AION is getting a lot of preorders these days, and many folks in the Warhammer community are talking about migrating there.  Its not perfect I know, but Mythic no longer deserves dollars just to keep giving us more PVE/RVE or one broken system layered on top of 5 other broken systems.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on June 29, 2009, 10:59:00 PM
Improvements to AoC and the arrival of Aion will cripple WAR.  I don't think WAR has any hope for a turnaround. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on June 30, 2009, 12:50:13 AM
Soooooo, I wonder what the subs look like  :grin:

As many predicted, the Land of the Dead patch killed RVR.  With one faction inside Land of the Dead, the other side has to RVE to gain access. Then they get 15 mins or so of slaughtering small clusters of people engaged with mobs, and once everything is clear the winning side gets to.................................................................PVE!!!!  Man what exciting RVR!!

On topic kinda: this is why I think DCUO's approach to PvP will fall on its face. Having to stop PvEing to PvP (or vice versa) has a lot of issues related to it that I don't think the majority of players will like.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Chockonuts on June 30, 2009, 02:00:13 PM
It not the LOTD that will kill WAR. It's going to be the same thing that always hurt it; lack of vision and shortsidedness from Mythic.

LOTD is a fun area, but this zone does not work with just two factions. It's like paddling a rowboat with only one oar or riding a tricycle with only two wheels. With three factions you would have had one inside LOTD farming gear and two factions outside duking it out for control. This would have kept a decent power balance and people engaged in the RvR.

It's not like Mythic didn't have a choice, too.  I'm sure the thought of three factions had to at least cross their minds ONCE, as everything they do is pretty much copy from something else they'd made looking at their track record of games. But they made a conscious decision NOT to implement three factions, either- too difficult/confusing, expensive to develop, or IP busting.. whatever. They certainly had plenty of material already written (lore) to come up with a proposal to GW for three factions instead of two, so where was the innovation?

When copying the most successful MMO in history, you are not supposed to take what works well for them and implement it into your game unless you can do it better (two factions). You're supposed to take what they CAN'T do well and improve that. Mythic chose to copy the wrong ideas this time.

As the Emperor put it "You have paid the price for your lack of vision! Now, young Skywalker... you will die. ... "  :drill:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Von Douchemore on June 30, 2009, 03:43:01 PM
Any data on the current number of subs?

The numbers you get from Warheap are scary.

I hope the supposed RvR revamp coming in September doesn't fail, DAoC is too old a game for 2009.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Redgiant on June 30, 2009, 08:01:26 PM
Seriously, check out this list: http://www.lasplash.com/publish/Celebrity_Talk_102/Night_of_a_Hundred_Stars_-_Where_Beautiful_People_Come_to_Watch_Beautiful_People.php

The most famous person there is Lou Diamond Phillips. loooooooooooooooool

I take umbrage at the beautiful (http://www.lasplash.com/uploads/1/hundred_stars_20.jpg) part.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Redgiant on June 30, 2009, 08:25:15 PM
Any data on the current number of subs?

The numbers you get from Warheap are scary.

I hope the supposed RvR revamp coming in September doesn't fail, DAoC is too old a game for 2009.

Those active players on Ironclaw must be lonely ... both of them (http://warheap.com/servers/view/?si=132).

"Mornin' Sam."

"Mornin' Ralph."


AU servers are way dead.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waylander on July 01, 2009, 01:29:08 PM
I thought warheap was no longer being updated.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waylander on July 01, 2009, 02:04:57 PM
Never mind I see they did a recent update. (http://www.warheap.com/servers/?s=health&o=desc&l=all)

Man if Dark Crag is their best server now they are in deep trouble. DC is going to take a big hit when AION releases, Volkmar is horribly imbalanced towards Order despite the activity rating, and Skullthrone by all reports is already a ghost town.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: fuser on July 01, 2009, 04:57:32 PM
Never mind I see they did a recent update. (http://www.warheap.com/servers/?s=health&o=desc&l=all)

Man if Dark Crag is their best server now they are in deep trouble. DC is going to take a big hit when AION releases, Volkmar is horribly imbalanced towards Order despite the activity rating, and Skullthrone by all reports is already a ghost town.

I found an old WoW PvP server terribly underpopulated and just checking with

WoW (80's only) alliance: 620 horde: 1236  (Anub'arak)
WAR  (40's only) order: 689 destruction: 751  (Dark Crag)


Thats pretty f'n damming


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 01, 2009, 05:17:43 PM
Noticed the vn boards seem very quiet, so counting official forums accounts again.

 7th May first (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=37620) to 13th May last (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=38282)
 14th May first (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=38283) to 20th May last (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=39047)
 21st May first (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=39048) to 27th May last (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=39617)
 28th May first (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=39618) to 3rd June last (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=40216)

Splitting the last twelve weeks into three groups of four weeks each.

5212 new accounts (1803, 1337, 1170, 902)
3368 new accounts (849, 1133, 731, 655)
2597 new accounts (663, 765, 570, 599)

LOD gave them a minor boost on new forum accounts, a few hours of the 1st of July still to go and they have already had 2820 new accounts (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=43036) created in the last 4 weeks.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Chockonuts on July 02, 2009, 02:59:45 PM
LOD gave them a minor boost on new forum accounts, a few hours of the 1st of July still to go and they have already had 2820 new accounts (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/profile?user.id=43036) created in the last 4 weeks.

2, 820 accounts in about a month's time? That doesn't sound good at all.


Does that even fill a third of a server? Isn't the average server capable of around 10k players or so?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lantyssa on July 02, 2009, 04:11:44 PM
Unless creating a game account also creates a new forum account, we don't know total new players.  It also tells us nothing about the rates of retention, resubscription, or cancellations.

What it does give us is a comparison to past rates of new forum registrations.  As long as player behavior remains somewhat consistant (which it will short of a promotion which encourages people to sub in greater than normal numbers), it gives us a rough idea of the rate of new subs compared to previous periods.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: fuser on July 02, 2009, 05:06:44 PM
What it does give us is a comparison to past rates of new forum registrations.  As long as player behavior remains somewhat consistant (which it will short of a promotion which encourages people to sub in greater than normal numbers), it gives us a rough idea of the rate of new subs compared to previous periods.

I wonder if they show the last login date and last post date, then you could mine some real numbers.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Kageru on July 07, 2009, 03:06:58 AM

I almost feel for the Warhammer developers. The game is still bleeding population, the gameplay is highly dependant on having an active and balanced population, there are multiple systemic issues and the player morale seems to be really low. They've got to be very close to losing critical mass and I would love to be at the staff meeting after Aion launches.

Even if they make all the right moves from here on the game just simply may not be recoverable due to the negative feedback system of low populations, no new population to keep the earlier tiers alive and no progression in the end game to keep the veterans happy. Admitting that though would be a major loss of face and leave the studio really vulnerable itself.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Pagz on July 07, 2009, 03:19:35 AM
I would love to be at the staff meeting after Aion launches.
If only there was a way!

Although I agree, even if they bring out something that fixes everything everyone had an issue with with gameplay so polished that it made your eyes bleed liquid pleasure, a lot of people wouldn't come back simply because what they brought out initially wasn't up to scratch and because they ignored a lot of beta testers feedback of issues that are still in the game.

As a lot of people were, I'm sad to see it like this, and like a dying pet I think it has to go.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Falwell on July 07, 2009, 04:21:24 AM
Our guys have returned to WAR recently, and I gotta say we're having a helluvah lot of fun. The almost singular reason being server choice. Iron Rock is hopping damn near 24 / 7.

I work really out of control hours because my work involves overseas markets. I'm, for all practical purposes, a night shifter. Needless to say, I was pleasantly surprised when two of my guildies and I found double warband + size RVR going on at 2:00 in the afternoon on a Monday. In Tier 3 none the less. The balance so far is just about right as well. Sometimes we eat the Destro zerg, sometimes we roll our own zerg. I've been in all kinds of scenes on this server so far. From multiple keep rapes in under an hour to 3 hour long keep defenses.

Scenarios are very often insta queue. In anywhere near primetime hours, the longest we've probably waited is 5 - 10 minutes. That happening only when extremely heavy RVR is going on in our tier. Extremely heavy being 3+ warbands per side doing keep knocks / zone locks.

We're playing WAR as a simple PvP getaway. In that regard, it's good stuff. Quick, easily accessable PvP with long term goals for those who want to pursue them.





Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Chockonuts on July 08, 2009, 09:00:24 PM

I almost feel for the Warhammer developers. The game is still bleeding population, the gameplay is highly dependant on having an active and balanced population, there are multiple systemic issues and the player morale seems to be really low. They've got to be very close to losing critical mass and I would love to be at the staff meeting after Aion launches.

Even if they make all the right moves from here on the game just simply may not be recoverable due to the negative feedback system of low populations, no new population to keep the earlier tiers alive and no progression in the end game to keep the veterans happy. Admitting that though would be a major loss of face and leave the studio really vulnerable itself.


They won't be in pain much longer. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/bioware-mythic-will-help-star-wars-mmo


"BioWare has told Eurogamer that Mythic Entertainment will "without a doubt" help out on Star Wars: The Old Republic, as there are "absolutely opportunities to share and learn" within the newly formed RPG/MMO group.


As for BioWare helping Warhammer Online, however, co-founder Greg Zeschuk is not so sure."



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on July 08, 2009, 10:58:21 PM
the Creative Director still has a budget for travel and self promotion: http://www.develop-conference.com/developconference09/biog_detail.shtml?id=2812


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nevermore on July 09, 2009, 09:51:45 AM
"BioWare has told Eurogamer that Mythic Entertainment will "without a doubt" help out on Star Wars: The Old Republic, as there are "absolutely opportunities to share and learn" within the newly formed RPG/MMO group.

Chances Old Republic will suck just went up by a couple dozen orders of magnitude.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: 01101010 on July 09, 2009, 10:18:14 AM
"BioWare has told Eurogamer that Mythic Entertainment will "without a doubt" help out on Star Wars: The Old Republic, as there are "absolutely opportunities to share and learn" within the newly formed RPG/MMO group.

Chances Old Republic will suck just went up by a couple dozen orders of magnitude.

OR.... they mean share and learn what-the-fuck NOT to do.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: rk47 on July 09, 2009, 10:36:04 AM
Sigh. Bioware learning from Mythic how to make games? Fuck, force gripping to faction guards = valid RVR tactic?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Goreschach on July 09, 2009, 12:19:33 PM
Look on the bright side, it's not exactly like getting knocked into lava will break canon.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Rasix on July 09, 2009, 01:20:27 PM
"BioWare has told Eurogamer that Mythic Entertainment will "without a doubt" help out on Star Wars: The Old Republic, as there are "absolutely opportunities to share and learn" within the newly formed RPG/MMO group.

Chances Old Republic will suck just went up by a couple dozen orders of magnitude.

OR.... they mean share and learn what-the-fuck NOT to do.

When has Mythic ever learned what-the-fuck NOT to do?  They may have a hard time communicating that.   We just have to hope the SWTOR team has better than average critical reading skills.

Paul: If there's one think gamers love, it's MORE BARS.  MORE BARS TO TRACK HOW AWESOME YOU ARE! WAAAAAAAAAAAARRGGG.
SWTOR team:  *audible groan*  I thought we told him the meeting was at 2.  Who told him?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 09, 2009, 02:03:03 PM
Look on the bright side, it's not exactly like getting knocked into lava will break canon.  :why_so_serious:

Ok, that one got me.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Tannhauser on July 09, 2009, 06:21:34 PM
It is STILL shocking to me that a AAA title like WAR has crashed and burned so thoroughly.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on July 09, 2009, 07:05:12 PM
It is STILL shocking to me that a AAA title like WAR has crashed and burned so thoroughly.

How do you feel about Vanguard and Tabula Rasa? 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: 01101010 on July 09, 2009, 07:15:23 PM
So wait, does this joint effort mean the Paul is going to be tied to SWTOR in any way shape or form?  :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Sir T on July 09, 2009, 08:50:33 PM
It is STILL shocking to me that a AAA title like WAR has crashed and burned so thoroughly.

How do you feel about Vanguard and Tabula Rasa? 

The only comparison between WAR and TR is that they both have/had a problem with the endgame. There was little reason to stick around with TR after 3 months or so, but those 3 months were fun as heck. In WAR the first tier is fun and a bit of the second tier but then it really hits a wall. In TR the devs really listened and improved the game massively. Not here, they seem to have made it worse.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on July 09, 2009, 09:38:44 PM
The thing that WAR and TR had in common were their development budgets.  Isn't that what makes a title AAA?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Sir T on July 09, 2009, 09:57:13 PM
The thing that WAR and TR had in common were their development budgets.  Isn't that what makes a title AAA?

Good Point.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on July 09, 2009, 11:06:46 PM
but those 3 months were fun as heck.


Really?  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Azazel on July 10, 2009, 01:46:11 AM
the Creative Director still has a budget for travel and self promotion: http://www.develop-conference.com/developconference09/biog_detail.shtml?id=2812

The best part of that little nutshell bio is that he references Bioware-Mythic, claims to be "mates with Jeff Kaplan (Blizzard, WoW)" and has no mention whatsoever of Warhammer/WAR.

 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Redgiant on July 10, 2009, 04:51:55 PM
Look on the bright side, it's not exactly like getting knocked into lava will break canon.  :why_so_serious:

If thery have a Tor Mustafar scenario, my advice is stay out.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 10, 2009, 05:18:01 PM
I can't link a source for this for obvious reasons, but I believe it to be accurate.

GOA had an internal meeting in Dublin recently, over 50% of jobs are to go (that's well over 100 staff), subscription numbers for WAR in the US are currently standing at just under 15k, Europe has a touch over 80k.  No figures for Russia or Taiwan were mentioned.



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on July 10, 2009, 05:22:32 PM
Seriously?  That seems really low for the US.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: squirrel on July 10, 2009, 05:24:20 PM
I can't link a source for this for obvious reasons, but I believe it to be accurate.

GOA had an internal meeting in Dublin recently, over 50% of jobs are to go (that's well over 100 staff), subscription numbers for WAR in the US are currently standing at just under 15k, Europe has a touch over 80k.  No figures for Russia or Taiwan were mentioned.



Holy shit. That seems incredibly low. Not that I know anyone still playing but if that's even close to the number the game's in way worse trouble than I'd thought.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on July 10, 2009, 05:47:39 PM
Sure it's not 150k for US? 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 10, 2009, 06:05:18 PM
Yeah, just under 15k, if there's massive job cuts coming at GOA I'd expect to see the sub info elsewhere soon.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Draegan on July 10, 2009, 06:37:21 PM
 :popcorn:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on July 10, 2009, 06:40:28 PM
:popcorn:

This. I hate Mythic as much as the next I-quit-the-game-and-raged-on-my-cds guy but 15k is almost unbelievably low.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 10, 2009, 06:42:02 PM
That can't possibly be right


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Ingmar on July 10, 2009, 06:44:30 PM
That realllllllly seems like it must involve a dropped 0.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on July 10, 2009, 06:45:41 PM
That can't possibly be right

I think it's possible.  Most of the massive guilds now have populations in the double digits (as in like 20 or so).  The game has been bleeding people like crazy. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 10, 2009, 06:47:00 PM
Anarchy Online has 20k. It has more than AO.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 10, 2009, 07:02:06 PM
Job losses are expected to hit in September, so I guess it might be a while before anyone confirms it, current subscription info was direct from a senior vice president of GOA.  If I'm wrong, I'm wrong *doesn't think he's wrong*. 

I've been on holiday and Ireland's not that big a place.  I guess it's possible GOA has the US sub info wrong but it's so low you would expect them to say "what" rather than concentrate on how well Europe is doing, (compared to the US that is).


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 10, 2009, 07:28:49 PM
I dig. That's just awfully low. Unbelievably low.

If it IS true, that's a singular, historical MMO failure. Nothing would compare. Nothing. To go from one of the golden, surefire license in the hands of a reputable company with a big budget and EA advertising to less subs than AO or Vanguard is... I mean that's serious business there. That would also mean I expect the plug to be pulled any time.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Montague on July 10, 2009, 07:40:55 PM
Pretty astounding but I wouldn't bet against it. WHA forums are full of "I quit" posts and Aion threads.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on July 10, 2009, 07:48:19 PM
This news is oddly fulfilling.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 10, 2009, 07:54:06 PM
It just pisses me off all over again. The base idea is FUN. The license... Jesus wept, the fucking license. HOW CAN YOU FUCK THIS UP YOU PHILISTINES?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on July 10, 2009, 08:07:18 PM
It just pisses me off all over again. The base idea is FUN. The license... Jesus wept, the fucking license. HOW CAN YOU FUCK THIS UP YOU PHILISTINES?

I'm not sure what the number of active warhammer tabletop players is, but I can guarantee you that they are below that number now.  Seriously, how do you fuck up this license?  If you just make the tabletop people interested you get 50K subs.  Well, in retrospect, probably 50K of those 80 in Europe are the crazy Brit Warhammer players.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: March on July 10, 2009, 08:09:22 PM
I dig. That's just awfully low. Unbelievably low.

If it IS true, that's a singular, historical MMO failure. Nothing would compare. Nothing. To go from one of the golden, surefire license in the hands of a reputable company with a big budget and EA advertising to less subs than AO or Vanguard is... I mean that's serious business there. That would also mean I expect the plug to be pulled any time.

I can't believe it is 15k and not 150k... that's so shockingly low that heads would roll... like top-dog heads.  Oh wait.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on July 10, 2009, 08:11:17 PM
This is like fucking up the Star Wars license, which I thought only Lucas could do effectively.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on July 10, 2009, 08:19:19 PM
SWG?  there is a precedent for ruining a franchise


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 10, 2009, 08:35:30 PM
That was still a slow burn. Nothing like 1mil subs (give or take) to less than 100k total and 15k in NA in nine months.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Hindenburg on July 10, 2009, 10:03:18 PM
I'd call losing seven hundred thousand customers in less than a year anything but a slow burn.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 10, 2009, 10:05:57 PM
I meant SWG was more of a slow burn. Unless it wasn't. I avoided the game like the plague so I have no idea of firm numbers from their peak to decline. Was it 700k lost in a year?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: amiable on July 10, 2009, 10:11:51 PM
That was still a slow burn. Nothing like 1mil subs (give or take) to less than 100k total and 15k in NA in nine months.

it would be interesting if they ever released numbers to chart subscription data against their "improvements" (hey let's make everyone grind for gear in PvE, I know we will gate everything with insane rep grinds, leveling is too slow let's add a whole 5% experience boost!,  hey people are leveling too fast lets cut xp gain in half when we go live!) 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on July 10, 2009, 10:17:28 PM
Quote
Job losses are expected to hit in September, so I guess it might be a while before anyone confirms it

Might as well go ahead and confirm it for you.

Ahem.

Confirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrmed.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: amiable on July 10, 2009, 10:21:45 PM
Wow.  Didn't Tabula Rasa have more subscribers when they pulled the plug?  What does it say about you when your game fails harder than a legendary nightmare of a game developed by a man who could well be clinically insane?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on July 10, 2009, 10:28:39 PM
(http://www.imagedump.com/image.cgi?file=550960.jpg)


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on July 10, 2009, 10:29:22 PM
Every fucking time. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on July 10, 2009, 10:30:27 PM
Hey.  At least now you can reasonably claim, "I told you so" with no second guessing.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Ingmar on July 10, 2009, 10:36:51 PM
I spent like 15 minutes trying to come up with a Paul Barnett/sunglasses thing for that picture and nothing quite clicked.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Sjofn on July 10, 2009, 10:44:07 PM
Every fucking time. :awesome_for_real:

For real, and I don't even know the show at all.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on July 10, 2009, 10:47:42 PM
Garthilk on suicide watch? 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lantyssa on July 10, 2009, 10:50:17 PM
On the one hand I feel really bad the for low level people.  On the other it is somehow satisfying.

It would explain the Bioware/Mythic thing though.  What are the chances of the worthless people being left behind while the actual workers move over?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Sir T on July 10, 2009, 11:03:56 PM
Wow.  Didn't Tabula Rasa have more subscribers when they pulled the plug?  What does it say about you when your game fails harder than a legendary nightmare of a game developed by a man who could well be clinically insane?

TR had their players spread over only 4 servers too. Less overhead and more population density.

Frankly if they ditched a lot of their insane ideas. did a smoothing out patch and just cut the game to 6 servers and let it rot it could probably keep going indefinably. The PVP in the game is really really fun, at least at lower levels. That's what I cant get my head around.

I cant see it bieng as low as 15K US people though. I'd believe 150K, but 15K would be having the graph turning into a cliff.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 10, 2009, 11:06:56 PM
Confirmed layoffs or confirmed 15k subs in the US? And confirmed in what sense? A named source? Reputable anonymous source?

I don't mean to be too incredulous... well, okay, I guess I do. It's just 15k... holy fuck. That's just crazy. Biggest failure in MMO history.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on July 10, 2009, 11:55:48 PM
Ok, after thinking about it for awhile... Maybe the guy meant that War in the US has 15k PEAK subs logged in at the same time? Maybe?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on July 11, 2009, 12:06:12 AM
Ok, after thinking about it for awhile... Maybe the guy meant that War in the US has 15k PEAK subs logged in at the same time? Maybe?

No


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Rasix on July 11, 2009, 01:44:48 AM
Ok, after thinking about it for awhile... Maybe the guy meant that War in the US has 15k PEAK subs logged in at the same time? Maybe?

That's 1250 per realm peak?  I thought some were ghost towns and the most populous would be possibly hitting 1200 max at peak.  Of course, this is all based on what I've heard, not any official numbers.

Let's say 20% of your population max is logged on at any time (I remember this figure from MUDs/EQ days. When EQ hit 100k peak online, they were hovering at around 500-550k subs): that'd put subs at around 75K.  Still a terrible, ritual suicide inducing number, just not as jaw dropping as 15k.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Tarami on July 11, 2009, 02:15:05 AM
Ok, after thinking about it for awhile... Maybe the guy meant that War in the US has 15k PEAK subs logged in at the same time? Maybe?

That's 1250 per realm peak?  I thought some were ghost towns and the most populous would be possibly hitting 1200 max at peak.  Of course, this is all based on what I've heard, not any official numbers.

Let's say 20% of your population max is logged on at any time (I remember this figure from MUDs/EQ days. When EQ hit 100k peak online, they were hovering at around 500-550k subs): that'd put subs at around 75K.  Still a terrible, ritual suicide inducing number, just not as jaw dropping as 15k.
Thing is that they quote both US and EU numbers and it doesn't make sense to quote them by different metrics. 80K concurrent EU players would mean 400K subs according to the same math, and we know that's not the case just from looking at server count (EU has 13 servers, which would mean 30K subs per server, and a concurrency number of 6000!)

Regardless, I think Schild confirmed the numbers (unless he just confirmed the layoffs.)


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lum on July 11, 2009, 05:58:24 AM
I heard about the layoffs too (it's hard to lay off people and keep it quiet, since, you know, the people were laid off and looking for work and stuff).

As for the subscription numbers... uh, everyone I've asked has said "omg no way". Then again below management level, no one really KNOWS the subscription numbers. So it's kind of impossible to confirm (since anyone in a position to know would never leak it).

Best bet for getting more info would probably be when quarterly reports are filed. (FWIW I'd believe 75k over 15k.)


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Velorath on July 11, 2009, 06:57:51 AM
Best bet for getting more info would probably be when quarterly reports are filed.

Which if I'm not mistaken should be near the beginning of August.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 11, 2009, 07:35:49 AM
I heard about the layoffs too (it's hard to lay off people and keep it quiet, since, you know, the people were laid off and looking for work and stuff).

As for the subscription numbers... uh, everyone I've asked has said "omg no way". Then again below management level, no one really KNOWS the subscription numbers. So it's kind of impossible to confirm (since anyone in a position to know would never leak it).

Best bet for getting more info would probably be when quarterly reports are filed. (FWIW I'd believe 75k over 15k.)

My understanding is that everyone at the mass GOA Dublin meeting was told the subscription numbers.

I think the next EA quarterly report is going to be interesting, either they report subscriptions accurately (~100k + Russia) or they go back to "current accounts" so they can bump the numbers with trial accounts and the first few days of the Taiwan launch (June 25th launch, quarter ended June 30th).  I also think it's worth remembering that GOA pulled the whole turn all subscriptions into recurring billing thing, a few weeks after launch, so you would expect European subs to be higher than the US.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 11, 2009, 08:57:10 AM
I don't get why you would give out that sort of information to likely disgruntled people on their way out the door.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lantyssa on July 11, 2009, 09:23:55 AM
Let's say 20% of your population max is logged on at any time (I remember this figure from MUDs/EQ days. When EQ hit 100k peak online, they were hovering at around 500-550k subs): that'd put subs at around 75K.  Still a terrible, ritual suicide inducing number, just not as jaw dropping as 15k.
Given the state of the game, the expected model likely will not give accurate results.

More likely, the only people left are the most hard-core, "I LOVE this game!!!" types.  They're likely more dedicated to being on when they can, which would skew the concurancy:account ratio to a much higher degree than a game with a draw from several quarters.

I'm not sure why people find the numbers so hard to believe.  A good deal of us have played it, some have tried to go back and quickly regretted it, and it's almost unanimous that it just isn't fun.  It's a PvP game where  PvP isn't the focus.  Of course it has no subs.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 11, 2009, 09:56:25 AM
When Auto Assault had 15k subs, that was believable because they never had more than 75k or so at max. To go from 1mil to 100k... some of this is me being incredulous because it really is a huge drop, some of it is me being Devil's Advocate. And presuming it went from 400k to 15k in NA... equally just too much. They probably get 2-3k a month just from people coming back or picking it up unawares of the bomb it is.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lantyssa on July 11, 2009, 10:31:44 AM
Games cannot get away with being shoddy any more.  There are more and better alternatives around now.  We've been saying that for a while.  We just underestimated how true it was.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 11, 2009, 11:06:18 AM
I don't get why you would give out that sort of information to likely disgruntled people on their way out the door.

The subscriptions numbers are the reason for job losses and quoted immediately beforehand, it's very unusual as GOA, apparently, normally keep the subscription figures secret.  But in the context of explaining to a packed audience of staff why over 50% of them are shortly due to be out of work, I can understand why you would do it.  The contrast with Mythic is striking, after their earlier batch of job losses, there was a press release (http://warhammerherald.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=607) saying it was all planned and part of normal operations.

That's as much as I know.  If someone was at the mass GOA meeting and says the top brass didn't quote exact subscription numbers for US & EU, that would conflict with what I was told.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on July 11, 2009, 12:30:57 PM
You could try to work it back from the 300k figure they announced last.

If Europe is 80k, that leaves 220k. Let's say Russia is at least 100k. That leaves everywhere else with 120k. If the US really is 15k, where are the other 105k located?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on July 11, 2009, 12:39:13 PM
You could try to work it back from the 300k figure they announced last.

If Europe is 80k, that leaves 220k. Let's say Russia is at least 100k. That leaves everywhere else with 120k. If the US really is 15k, where are the other 105k located?

Perhaps they got smart and quit since the last announcement. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 11, 2009, 04:59:25 PM
The under 15k number for US is wrong, there was a mix up as it was being compared to the EU figure.  US figure is just under 15k more than the EU figure.  So Europe has ~ 83k & US is ~ 97k, so combined total is 180k (excluding Russia).  Sorry, honest mistake.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on July 11, 2009, 05:24:49 PM
The under 15k number for US is wrong, there was a mix up as it was being compared to the EU figure.  US figure is just under 15k more than the EU figure.  So Europe has ~ 83k & US is ~ 97k, so combined total is 180k (excluding Russia).  Sorry, honest mistake.

Still is very, very low for the US either way you slice it.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lum on July 12, 2009, 03:11:28 AM
Actually it surprises me that EU has less subs than the US. I always thought it had done stronger there since its launch (just on the strength of the license if nothing else).

100K users can fund a studio. Of course, there's the matter of making production costs and Games Workshop licensing fees, but given that the US studio has already had pretty severe layoffs they should be sustainable if they can keep/build on those numbers.

At 15K users you have to start asking yourself if it's paying for the 1 server you have left.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Feverdream on July 12, 2009, 09:08:12 AM
I had expected it to do better in Europe as well -- there are legions of Warhammer fans there.  In the time leading up to WAR's release I had some great conversations with people that had never played any MMO before but who were looking forward to WAR.

Some of them told me later that the combination of problems with GOA on top of all of the issues with Warhammer itself resulted in a mass exodus.  None of those folks sound likely to return under any circumstances, either because they refuse to deal with GOA or because they refuse to deal with Mythic again.  Double whammy.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 13, 2009, 04:02:02 AM
Yeah, I'm surprised EU isn't more than the US as well.  As for funding, I'm interested to see if EA commits to a paid expansion.  If they don't, then all the new regions they open in don't matter because the end is inevitable


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on July 13, 2009, 09:02:10 AM
Let's say 20% of your population max is logged on at any time (I remember this figure from MUDs/EQ days. When EQ hit 100k peak online, they were hovering at around 500-550k subs): that'd put subs at around 75K.  Still a terrible, ritual suicide inducing number, just not as jaw dropping as 15k.
Given the state of the game, the expected model likely will not give accurate results.

More likely, the only people left are the most hard-core, "I LOVE this game!!!" types.  They're likely more dedicated to being on when they can, which would skew the concurancy:account ratio to a much higher degree than a game with a draw from several quarters.

I'm not sure why people find the numbers so hard to believe.  A good deal of us have played it, some have tried to go back and quickly regretted it, and it's almost unanimous that it just isn't fun.  It's a PvP game where  PvP isn't the focus.  Of course it has no subs.

I still play but I fall into the "still play but waiting for Aion category".  I just cant be bothered to either go start an MMO I havent played before or go back to an old one.  I can say that over just the last 2 months or so my guild is losing more then we gain and our nightime login numbers are continually going down.  We used to be a 30 person a night guild but lately are lucky to have half that most nights.  Out of the number of active people I play with the total percentage of my guild planning to move to Aion now is about 40% of my guild and over the next 2 months that will go up Im sure.  Aion will absolutley tank WHO, and rightfully so.  I expect WHO to have only 2 NA servers up by Xmas. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 13, 2009, 09:43:19 AM
I missed this from the 10th.

http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=854

Quote
we are expecting to resolve our long term population issues on our lower population servers and see high populations regularly as part and parcel of server merges that are currently in discussion.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on July 13, 2009, 09:52:09 AM
That grab bag is a sad reminder of just how out of touch Mythic is with its playerbase. 

- No we won't change the Zealot/RP mastery trees. 

- We're still working on the AE problem. 

- Rather than eliminating cc from some classes, we're going to give added immunity and extra abilities to counter it.  CC needs to be limited in use such that it can be a strategic component of a fight.  It's just a spam button in WAR.  If it's up, you use it.  This is very poor design.  Make it strategic or eliminate it. 

Hopeless.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on July 13, 2009, 10:46:44 AM
They love to slap bandaids on gaping wounds



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Hayduke on July 13, 2009, 11:15:29 AM
Yeah, I'm surprised EU isn't more than the US as well.  As for funding, I'm interested to see if EA commits to a paid expansion.  If they don't, then all the new regions they open in don't matter because the end is inevitable

The US numbers aren't just US though, they include Canada and Australia for whatever it's worth.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on July 13, 2009, 12:29:29 PM
http://www.warherald.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=859

Greetings!

Another round of our Free Character Transfers starts tomorrow! Players of the following servers will be able to login to the Mythic Account Center and begin transfer of their characters starting tomorrow, July 14th 2009. Please be sure to read all instructions carefully! There are cases where you may lose items if you do not properly prepare your character for transfer. This also applies to the Guild Transfer functionality.


Source Servers    To    Destination Servers
                               

Ironfist                           Gorfang

Vortex                            Volkmar
Monolith     

Magnus                          Badlands
Skull Throne     

Server Population Bonuses - All Servers!

To help welcome players to their new homes and make the transfers easier for everyone, players on all servers will receive an extra 20% experience and renown for limited time!

Enjoy your new homes…WAAAGH!!!


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on July 13, 2009, 12:34:16 PM
I removed WAR from my harddrive after resubbing twice.  Until they do a class balance overhaul and eliminate most of the cc, I advise people to avoid WAR like the plague. 

Now I need someone to talk me out of going back to DAoC.  Playing the Aion Beta until I make up my mind. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Threash on July 13, 2009, 12:35:36 PM
Haha lovely, my order server is being transfered into my destro server.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waylander on July 13, 2009, 12:45:14 PM
It doesn't matter what they do at this point.

T4 is horribly broken, and the people they are losing are entire guilds as well as smaller groups of players in the level 40 range.  Patch 1.3 simply introduced more RVE, and prior to that the RVR token system created a population limit per zone issue that screwed over organized PVP.

Until they re-design T4 and fix the CC and class imbalances now, they will just merge servers to see them slowly die off every 3 months.  Not to mention there is some hack I recently read about called Warbuddy that people claim will let you do all sorts of weird things.

I am not proclaiming the doom of Warhammer, but I do feel that it will be consigned to the niche mmo gaming market because of Mythic's failure to listen and failure to do anything about the core issues that make the game broken.  Land of the Dead didn't need to come before a T4 revamp, and RVR tokens shouldn't have come before they figured out how to redesign fortress fights.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: 01101010 on July 13, 2009, 12:46:55 PM
We should have started a bracket for servers in a similar fashion as the NCAA tourney. First server I rolled on was Gorfang and the second was Badlands. Interesting they are still there. While I quit playing back in December, I can't help but feel like my server is winning out - hell it is more fun than actually playing the game.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on July 13, 2009, 12:47:54 PM
It doesn't matter what they do at this point.

T4 is horribly broken, and the people they are losing are entire guilds as well as smaller groups of players in the level 40 range.  Patch 1.3 simply introduced more RVE, and prior to that the RVR token system created a population limit per zone issue that screwed over organized PVP.

Until they re-design T4 and fix the CC and class imbalances now, they will just merge servers to see them slowly die off every 3 months.  Not to mention there is some hack I recently read about called Warbuddy that people claim will let you do all sorts of weird things.

I am not proclaiming the doom of Warhammer, but I do feel that it will be consigned to the niche mmo gaming market because of Mythic's failure to listen and failure to do anything about the core issues that make the game broken.  Land of the Dead didn't need to come before a T4 revamp, and RVR tokens shouldn't have come before they figured out how to redesign fortress fights.

I agree with you completely.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nevermore on July 13, 2009, 12:57:40 PM
I removed WAR from my harddrive after resubbing twice.  Until they do a class balance overhaul and eliminate most of the cc, I advise people to avoid WAR like the plague. 

Now I need someone to talk me out of going back to DAoC.  Playing the Aion Beta until I make up my mind. 

Wait, you don't like the CC in WAR so you're considering going back to DAoC?  :headscratch:  Did they actually make the CC in WAR worse than it was in DAoC?  The game that opened with Stungard and has (had?) minute long mezzes?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on July 13, 2009, 12:58:53 PM
Token system is completely broken.  As a RR72 Witch Hunter if I want to get Walord gear I have to kill higher rank enemy players, and guess how many there are? Even when u do kill one they drop a token maybe 1 our of 20 kills, then you have to roll against 5 other people in your group for it and ususally the RR35 person wins who cant use it anyhow.  So since the token system and I play daily, I have a total of...wait for it...0 tokens!


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Rasix on July 13, 2009, 01:03:07 PM
I removed WAR from my harddrive after resubbing twice.  Until they do a class balance overhaul and eliminate most of the cc, I advise people to avoid WAR like the plague.  

Now I need someone to talk me out of going back to DAoC.  Playing the Aion Beta until I make up my mind.  

How is playing some derivative DIKU going to convince you not to go back to DAOC? Are you hoping to just burn out or something?  

Play some console and/or non-MMO PC games or I'm taking away your gamer card.

I seriously do not get the compulsion to be playing a MMO at all times.  I understand even less the PVPer compulsion to play any shit game that comes along as long as it has glorious PVP.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on July 13, 2009, 01:13:19 PM
Play some console and/or non-MMO PC games or I'm taking away your gamer card.

I've actually been playing my PS2 a bit and am considering moving on to a ps3.  My big problem is that I get bored with single player games very quickly.  I'm not sure why it is.  Perhaps I played them to death in my younger years and find most newer titles to be more of the same with prettier graphics. 

I want new gameplay experiences.  I'm not really concerned with visual glitz. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Rasix on July 13, 2009, 01:32:11 PM
Play some console and/or non-MMO PC games or I'm taking away your gamer card.

I've actually been playing my PS2 a bit and am considering moving on to a ps3.  My big problem is that I get bored with single player games very quickly.  I'm not sure why it is.  Perhaps I played them to death in my younger years and find most newer titles to be more of the same with prettier graphics. 

Knowing how old you are appoximately, I doubt that's the case.  :grin: 




Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Ingmar on July 13, 2009, 03:32:50 PM
I'm with Nevermore, if the CC in WAR was too much I have no idea why you'd ever go back to DAOC where it was much, much worse.

Those new subscriber numbers, while surely in  :ye_gods: territory for Mythic/EA, are much more realistic sounding.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on July 13, 2009, 03:56:34 PM
I'm with Nevermore, if the CC in WAR was too much I have no idea why you'd ever go back to DAOC where it was much, much worse.

CC in DAoC was not worse, it was different.  CC was strategic in use, was not on every class, and was mostly broken on damage.  I find the implementation of CC in DAoC much more palatable than i twas in WAR, particularly as far as playing a stealth or melee class was concerned.  Once you get purge 3 and solid resists in your template, cc in DAoC is little more than a temporary annoyance. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 13, 2009, 04:02:39 PM

I seriously do not get the compulsion to be playing a MMO at all times.  I understand even less the PVPer compulsion to play any shit game that comes along as long as it has glorious PVP.  :awesome_for_real:

Christ, I know. I don't get it. I just unsubbed from WoW and LOTRO since I only play to do some light raiding and with a baby coming real soon that's not going to be feasible. So it's Blood Bowl with a side of Paradox games for me.

You don't NEED to give these people money. And the PvPer obsession with buying any vomited up piece of shit that's backed by a marketing team saying the right thing is flabbergasting to me.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: acelerion on July 13, 2009, 04:15:32 PM
I removed WAR from my harddrive after resubbing twice.  Until they do a class balance overhaul and eliminate most of the cc, I advise people to avoid WAR like the plague. 

Now I need someone to talk me out of going back to DAoC.  Playing the Aion Beta until I make up my mind. 

Wait, you don't like the CC in WAR so you're considering going back to DAoC?  :headscratch:  Did they actually make the CC in WAR worse than it was in DAoC?  The game that opened with Stungard and has (had?) minute long mezzes?


As someone who played daoc at the highest competitive level (mostly before and right after toa release), yeah it was worse. In 2 ways.

1. Very little of it was useful to me outside of even numbered fights (talking about war cc). Everything has cool downs and only effects a single target or my immediate vicinity. Neither case is useful for zerg busting.

2. Everyone had some form of it and there were no counters. This basically leaves you at the mercy of large numbers of people. If someone wanted to cc you they were going to do it and you couldent do shit about it. Also, no immunities


daoc was different in a number of ways. First, there were counters. Tons of them. You just had to rely on other people for it in most cases. This was frustrating for casuals, because the people youre playing with either dont know or dont care to un cc you.

Second, all cc that was worth a damn was given to a few classes. Other classes had special semi-cc like nearsight or disease (speed reduction) or they had regular cc with reduced potency. If you are having trouble being ccd you could actually kill the person(s) doing it and not have to worry about it for a minute.

Basically, if you knew what you were doing, you didnt stand around ccd for very long. In fact, in fights between good groups, whoever got mez off first hardely ever determined who won. It was just a breif advantage. Things like nearsight and casting interupts played a much larger role than mez or root.

I would say I spent more time dealing with cc in war than I ever did in daoc


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Ingmar on July 13, 2009, 04:45:28 PM
I'm with Nevermore, if the CC in WAR was too much I have no idea why you'd ever go back to DAOC where it was much, much worse.
cc in DAoC is little more than a temporary annoyance.

Our DAOC experiences were very, very, very different. DAOC had the most prevalent (in terms of actual presence in pvp - it might not have been on every class, but there was always tons of it around in practice), longest duration, least mitigatable CC of any game I've ever played. I played a hybrid, so I didn't get most of the toys that 'real' melee classes got to mitigate/remove that stuff. I can't tell you how many fights I spent mezzed for 30+ seconds while the assist train killed the important targets.

Remember you would have to grind your way through several realm ranks of not having the points to spend on that stuff - and not being able to buy the actual fun realm abilities for your class besides.

Maybe they've fixed it in the intervening years, I quit right around when Catacombs came out.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nevermore on July 13, 2009, 04:47:34 PM
It sounds like Mythic learned nothing from PvP 1.0.  All those counters you listed didn't exist in early DAoC PvP.  Resists didn't lower mez, no immunity timer after getting hit with CC, no purge or de-mezzes.  It sounds like WAR just reset back to early DAoC, took out just the AoE mezzes and gave one to everyone.  It's like Mythic learned as much about PvP from early DAoC as they did about PvE from ToA.  :awesome_for_real:

Edit: and as Ingmar says, some of those counters only did so much.  Getting 50% Body resist to chop a Sorc mez in half sounds great on paper, until you remember that the base duration was 72 seconds.  Also, if you played Hib then your Druid had that Mass Purge easy button so you wouldn't be spending nearly as much time mezzed.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Fordel on July 13, 2009, 05:11:07 PM
I couldn't play DaoC today because it's an archaic piece of software. Last time I tried to play it, I felt like I was running on Ice.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: HaemishM on July 13, 2009, 05:25:55 PM
100K users can fund a studio. Of course, there's the matter of making production costs and Games Workshop licensing fees, but given that the US studio has already had pretty severe layoffs they should be sustainable if they can keep/build on those numbers.

At 15K users you have to start asking yourself if it's paying for the 1 server you have left.

Yeah, the 15k HAD to be wrong, because fuck, you can't even keep the lights on at an operation like that with 15k subs. Hell, the server bills alone based on the number of servers WAR still has left should be close to swallowing that revenue whole.

But even at 100k, this game is fucked. It is a huge, cratering hole sucking revenue from other parts of the company - that is, if you believe Mark Jacobs assertions that the game really needs around 500k to be successful. Based on the initial sub numbers, and the fact that almost 1 million boxes were sold, 100k is death on a stick. You know that the licensing fees from GW have got to be pretty stout. Not Star Wars stout, but enough that the game is likely not long for this world.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on July 13, 2009, 05:30:58 PM
Are people joking around that the CC in DAoC is worse than War? The only time this would be true would have been late 2001 DAoC vs Warhammer now. I'll take a 20 second mez if my purge is down over ANYTHING in Warhammer.




From the FAQ on the Herald:

You already have a character of an opposing realm on the destination server. If this is the case you will have to delete your character of the opposing realm on the destination server in order to complete the character transfer.
..................  :awesome_for_real:




Turns out this they changed this (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/board/message?board.id=server_mo&thread.id=1472) and allow you to pick your destination after you fill out an appeal stating you'll have characters on both factions come merging. However, the fact that they actually decided, for awhile, that it would be OK to force players to delete characters enough to put it into the FAQ is amazing. As for the appeal being read, responded to, and resolved, that will probably take a few weeks.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 13, 2009, 06:34:16 PM
Another 5 dead US servers, leaves 10 US now.  Anyone know how many US LOTRO has?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Montague on July 13, 2009, 06:40:39 PM
Another 5 dead US servers, leaves 10 US now.  Anyone know how many US LOTRO has?

11, according to the LOTRO forums.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on July 13, 2009, 06:41:28 PM
11 US, 11 EU, 22 total

http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/List_of_Worlds


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 13, 2009, 07:35:42 PM
From the possibly the worst source ever (http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/111312725/p1/?0).

Quote
This is pretty vague, but we can bet it's staff from Warhammer.

EA/BioWare/Mythic is producing a new game.

Warhammer is, and has been tanking for some time.

DAoC is actually gaining subscribers.

From Facebook:
Dark Age of Camelot has regained Lori as an official part of its team and additional developers will be joining her in the near future.

The Facebook quote is true (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dark-Age-of-Camelot/58523828977?ref=mf).


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: WindupAtheist on July 13, 2009, 08:18:27 PM
Betcha the DAOC bump is all ex-players who tried WAR, hated it, and found themselves left with the itch to play a somewhat similar game that at least sorta worked. Same way UO got a bump from the NGE.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: EWSpider on July 13, 2009, 08:37:56 PM
A lot of people are resubbing to DAoC in preparation for the Ywain server.  For those that aren't familiar, Mythic is going to archive the current clusters (Bossiney, Devon, and Killibury) and open a new server (the afore mentioned Ywain).  A new transfer process is about to enter testing that will allow characters from all the clusters to transfer to the new server.  This will include guilds and some type of process to accomodate housing.  The Classic server ruleset will be put to rest and some special accomodations will be made for toons transfering from that cluster to help soften the blow of having to now deal with ToA content.  Mythic is going with a transfer process and not a server merge because it will free up lots of character names, guild names, and guild emblems as those that do not transfer will have their characters/guilds left archived on the old clusters.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Ingmar on July 13, 2009, 09:01:34 PM
And you actually see lots of people running around on LotRO servers.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 13, 2009, 09:11:11 PM
Who the fuck is Lori?

And I'd be a fucking liar if I said I wasn't left with an itch to try DAoC again. I never really did much with it so it would be fresh for me... but the quality of the gameplay and engine put me off.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: EWSpider on July 13, 2009, 09:28:20 PM
Who the fuck is Lori?

And I'd be a fucking liar if I said I wasn't left with an itch to try DAoC again. I never really did much with it so it would be fresh for me... but the quality of the gameplay and engine put me off.

Lori is about the best thing to happen to DAoC in a long time.  She came off Warhammer several months back and stepped in as the Producer of DAoC and quickly turned things around.  She had been on DAoC in many different capacities before WAR and has been with Mythic since the beginning. We had had almost no communication at all from Mythic for quite a long time.  Lori came in and was very frank with the Team Leads about what had happened, what was going on, and what the future had in store for DAoC.  She rebooted the TL program and set a course for the future.  Then about 2 months back she got moved again to another undisclosed project and Chris Rabbideau was reintroduced as Producer (he was the Producer before Lori stepped in).  Lori is now once again back on DAoC (I'm not sure in what capacity yet) and is about to be followed by a few developers.  I'm happy to see development is ramping back up a bit on DAoC.  I can't talk about any of the new development yet, but as I mentioned previously Ywain is shaping up to be some fun times.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on July 13, 2009, 09:34:39 PM
It probably doesn't matter who Lori is, since both games are circling the bowl..... :grin:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: EWSpider on July 13, 2009, 09:36:49 PM
It probably doesn't matter who Lori is, since both games are circling the bowl..... :grin:

I've said since the beginning that DAoC would outlast WAR and I still stand by that.  It's not going anywhere anytime soon.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on July 13, 2009, 10:19:07 PM
It probably doesn't matter who Lori is, since both games are circling the bowl..... :grin:

DAOC is paid for and provided it makes a satisfying enough profit, it can continue indefinitely.

WAR still has its development costs to cover, appears to have a worldwide player base of less than 300k and will soon run out of new markets to expand into. Looking at the population figures, I'm even starting to doubt if it will continue operation into 2010.

EA could try selling it off to someone else, I guess, to make some money back, but I don't know who would want to pick it up at anything less than bargain basement prices.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on July 13, 2009, 10:53:43 PM
It probably doesn't matter who Lori is, since both games are circling the bowl..... :grin:

DAOC is paid for and provided it makes a satisfying enough profit, it can continue indefinitely.

WAR still has its development costs to cover, appears to have a worldwide player base of less than 300k and will soon run out of new markets to expand into. Looking at the population figures, I'm even starting to doubt if it will continue operation into 2010.

EA could try selling it off to someone else, I guess, to make some money back, but I don't know who would want to pick it up at anything less than bargain basement prices.


I could see EA closing Mythic completely and shutting off both games within 6 months.  May not happen that way, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me with the economy being down.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: pants on July 13, 2009, 10:55:17 PM

EA could try selling it off to someone else, I guess, to make some money back, but I don't know who would want to pick it up at anything less than bargain basement prices.

SOE!  Now that Matrix Online is dead, they gotta have some spare servers not doing anything  :drill:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: tazelbain on July 13, 2009, 10:59:58 PM
DAoC is not going to shut down.  There is no write-off in it for them.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nevermore on July 14, 2009, 01:23:38 AM
Another 5 dead US servers, leaves 10 US now.  Anyone know how many US LOTRO has?

11, according to the LOTRO forums.

Even City of Heroes still has 11 US servers.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: amiable on July 14, 2009, 07:09:19 AM
Another 5 dead US servers, leaves 10 US now.  Anyone know how many US LOTRO has?

11, according to the LOTRO forums.

Even City of Heroes still has 11 US servers.

I still play LOTRO with my wife, we are on the least populated server (Firefoot) and everytime we log on their are tons of folks starting PUG's, PvPing, even PUGing some raids (none of the hard ones).  Not just in Moria either I have friends who just started who are PUGing their way through the low level zones and they seem to not be having much of a problem either.  So at least they are doing well enough to maintain their current population.   

As far as craftsmanship I think LOTRO really is in a league of its own, if only it had a more responsive combat system I think it would have done far better.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nevermore on July 14, 2009, 09:25:44 AM
Another 5 dead US servers, leaves 10 US now.  Anyone know how many US LOTRO has?

11, according to the LOTRO forums.

Even City of Heroes still has 11 US servers.

I still play LOTRO with my wife, we are on the least populated server (Firefoot) and everytime we log on their are tons of folks starting PUG's, PvPing, even PUGing some raids (none of the hard ones).  Not just in Moria either I have friends who just started who are PUGing their way through the low level zones and they seem to not be having much of a problem either.  So at least they are doing well enough to maintain their current population.   

As far as craftsmanship I think LOTRO really is in a league of its own, if only it had a more responsive combat system I think it would have done far better.

That wasn't a shot at LotRO, which I hear is a fine game.  I was pointing and laughing at WAR.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 14, 2009, 09:28:31 AM
Another 5 dead US servers, leaves 10 US now.  Anyone know how many US LOTRO has?

11, according to the LOTRO forums.

But they recently increased capacity.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lum on July 14, 2009, 10:27:14 AM
From the possibly the worst source ever (http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/111312725/p1/?0).

All of those quotes sound plausible. It'd be more surprising if Mythic did *not* have a game in the early design/prototype stage given the length of time required to produce an MMO. Getting funding for it would also help stave off more layoffs.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 14, 2009, 11:05:51 AM
source (http://www.gamershell.com/news_78664.html)

Quote
Mythic Entertainment and Gigamedia have announced that Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning will launch in Taiwan on June 25th. The game will be available on GigaMedia's game platform, FunTown, in Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Macau.

http://www.warhammeronline.com.tw/official/news/info_content.html

From the above link click the news item entitled 伺服器合併計畫公告


Anyone think WAR reducing their server numbers from 9 total in Taiwan, to 4 total, two weeks after release is a new record?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lantyssa on July 14, 2009, 12:21:43 PM
To me it just implies they can read English and know how to use that newfangled internet to do some reading.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Hayduke on July 14, 2009, 01:03:38 PM
I don't even understand how that's possible.  Did they just pull numbers out of a hat when they were deciding how many servers to open?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 14, 2009, 02:03:05 PM
I almost resubbed to DAoC just now. Then I saw they had a grand total of 2200 players online in North America.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: skrigg on July 14, 2009, 03:21:55 PM
2200 isn't bad if you are on that 1 cluster. The population of the highest servers in their prime was 2k-3k.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 14, 2009, 03:48:32 PM
That was 2200 for ALL clusters. Now, one of them was something like 1600.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Khaldun on July 14, 2009, 03:52:41 PM
I see a lot of folks trying to figure out how to reconcile DAOC (and the learning that should have happened) with the design mistakes of WAR.

Before you get into any of the specifics, here's the big thing that I see:

DAOC was expressly a response to the first-gen MMOs, particularly EQ. It was designed to have small but crucial convenient features that EQ didn't have, to have a different kind of relationship between developers and players than EQ did, to offer major game systems that EQ didn't have. It took a long time before that initial design clarity about the market at the time of launch faded and allowed the niche-destroying stupidity of ToA to take hold. Whatever you end up remembering as what you liked about DAOC, you have to also really remember the moment of its launch, which is how most of us who liked DAOC were motivated to try it and stick with it: because we were not just bored with UO, AC, EQ, but because those products (especially EQ) were actively antagonizing us in some fashion.  This is the same force that fueled WoW's initial success: Blizzard saw where the flaws and defects in the market were and launched with most of those flaws squarely in their target sights.

WAR wasn't in any similar way a response to its contemporary market, a shrewd assessment of what the major product of the moment has and doesn't have, or a canny judgement about the gaps or flaws in the way that the developers of the major product approached their customers. You can maybe see somewhere buried deep down inside of it a potential product that would be a nimble attempt to offer what WoW doesn't offer, but that potential got buried early in WAR's development.

If you're someone holding a bag of cash now for a MMO project, the first question you should have is to a designer, "What are you going to do that WoW doesn't do and likely cannot do, given its design?" If the answer is any variation on, "We're going to be better than WoW at what WoW does", that should result in a swift boot to the ass and a slammed door. Period.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 14, 2009, 04:31:25 PM
I think that's a fairly apt analysis. DAoC being the not-EQ for EQ players where WAR was WoW PLUS LOOK AT THIS LOUD FAT FUCKER SCREAMING AT YOU.

Really, my flirtation with doing DAoC for a month springs from a desire to play a PvP game that's at least reasonably functional and because I didn't actually play DAoC past level 15 or so. It'd be new to me! :D But then I realize that nobody would play with me and I fuck off to do something else.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Trippy on July 14, 2009, 07:29:05 PM
I don't even understand how that's possible.  Did they just pull numbers out of a hat when they were deciding how many servers to open?
I haven't paid attention to WAR since before it launched so I don't know the details of the beta testing they did in Taiwan but the Chinese MMORPG players are notoriously fickle. Or more accurately they like to try out the new games en masse but won't stick around if it's not good (according to their standards, natch) since there are so many other games competing for their attention (they have a ton more MMORPGs over there than we have here).


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Ingmar on July 14, 2009, 07:58:37 PM
I'm guessing the female avatars weren't NEARLY hot enough for the Asian market.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Sjofn on July 14, 2009, 09:14:29 PM
As far as craftsmanship I think LOTRO really is in a league of its own, if only it had a more responsive combat system I think it would have done far better.

ding ding ding ding ding ding

I do like being thoughtful in my choices, the warden being the biggest example of such, but even that class feels like I'm at least fighting in hip-deep water, if not completely under it like the other classes.  :?

WAR wasn't as responsive as it could've been either, but that was the least of its problems as you got higher level.  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Threash on July 15, 2009, 10:29:12 AM
WAR designed a scenario based game then freaked out when they realized no-fucking-body wanted that and added rvr their server or design couldn't support.  Take something like melee healers, in scenarios they work great as they were designed.  Not enough people to make them completely worthless in the front lines so they can actually get in there and mix it up.  Now tell me what the fuck is a melee healer supposed to do in a keep/fort besides sit in the back and heal?  Their end game was designed around tanks/back line healers/AOE damage dealers but their classes are based around doing scenarios.  If my marauder didn't have a decent AE spec he would be completely worthless in all the endgame, the backstabber spec is utterly worthless outside pve/scenarios.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Hayduke on July 15, 2009, 10:33:20 AM
I haven't paid attention to WAR since before it launched so I don't know the details of the beta testing they did in Taiwan but the Chinese MMORPG players are notoriously fickle. Or more accurately they like to try out the new games en masse but won't stick around if it's not good (according to their standards, natch) since there are so many other games competing for their attention (they have a ton more MMORPGs over there than we have here).

Ah thanks, that makes a good deal of sense.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: raydeen on July 15, 2009, 05:36:07 PM
"Warhammer has been operating since the team from the formal charges are the subject of the work of the most fear."

Couldn't have said it better myself.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on July 16, 2009, 12:45:17 PM
Up on test center today.  Couple highlights

* Immovable: Root immunity and knockback immunity have been combinedinto a new single immunity effect, and its duration has been increasedover the previous effects. When affected by either a root, knockback,or pull effect, you will become immune to them for 30 seconds. Thisimmunity will also persist through death.
*Resolute Defense: This new ability is now available for purchase fromRenown trainers. When activated, your character will become brieflyimmune to all Crowd Control effects. Please note that this ability willnot remove any pre-existing effects; it is a tool to help you preventyourself from becoming afflicted in the first place! This one reminds me of those trinkets in WOW
*Unstoppable: The duration of this stun, knockdown, disarm and silenceimmunity buff has been increased from six times the duration of thedisabling effect to 10 times the effect duration, and will now persistthrough death
*The Field of Glory buff currently grants a 100% Experience bonus in RvRLakes when killing players. Players will now receive an additional 50%bonus to Experience and a 150% bonus to Renown when killing playersnear Battlefield Objectives or Keeps.


Patch also includes the big AE nerf which hits pretty much every class. 
Evidentally the next patch includes an additional ramp in keeps(not sure about Forts)


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Ashamanchill on July 16, 2009, 02:44:17 PM
Up on test center today.  Couple highlights

* Immovable: Root immunity and knockback immunity have been combinedinto a new single immunity effect, and its duration has been increasedover the previous effects. When affected by either a root, knockback,or pull effect, you will become immune to them for 30 seconds. Thisimmunity will also persist through death.
*Resolute Defense: This new ability is now available for purchase fromRenown trainers. When activated, your character will become brieflyimmune to all Crowd Control effects. Please note that this ability willnot remove any pre-existing effects; it is a tool to help you preventyourself from becoming afflicted in the first place! This one reminds me of those trinkets in WOW
*Unstoppable: The duration of this stun, knockdown, disarm and silenceimmunity buff has been increased from six times the duration of thedisabling effect to 10 times the effect duration, and will now persistthrough death
*The Field of Glory buff currently grants a 100% Experience bonus in RvRLakes when killing players. Players will now receive an additional 50%bonus to Experience and a 150% bonus to Renown when killing playersnear Battlefield Objectives or Keeps.


Patch also includes the big AE nerf which hits pretty much every class. 
Evidentally the next patch includes an additional ramp in keeps(not sure about Forts)

Too bad for them it's not six months ago, when they still had a sub base to enjoy this.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 16, 2009, 03:10:23 PM
I know, right?

Though there's something delicious about the guy on the job for all of a week fixing something in what seems to be great fashion but has lingered for a year. Fucking idiots.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on July 16, 2009, 03:18:46 PM
Well ya know they had to crank out LOTD before they fix stuff, priorities and all :P  Good thing too cause that place is just hopping :P


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 16, 2009, 03:23:20 PM
http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=863

Producer's Letter

Quote
We’ll continue to look at improving the RvR campaign by better incentivizing Keeps that are defended and upgraded.  The plan is to base the value of rewards handed out on how many enemy players are present, and by the upgraded Rank of the Keep.  Players will receive a boost for both XP and RP, plus additional gold bags handed out for a successful attack or defense.  Now you’ll have even more reason to seek out your enemies for the most rewarding experience.

Fairly sure that was suggested here several times, otherwise it's encourages players to avoid each other and swap keep ownership.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on July 16, 2009, 04:32:39 PM
This is going to be too complex once they are done futzing around with everything.  Gold bags for defending or attacking means some sort of timer, I suppose, which means to successfully defend you have to stick around a particular keep.  So when the zerg zips over to the undefended keep when they get frustrated the defenders will have to stand pat to get their gold bag.  The whole system is a load of crap.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: tazelbain on July 16, 2009, 04:46:18 PM
Tacking on one reactionary, short-sighted "fix" after another is really no substitute actual design.  Seems obvious but....



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: HaemishM on July 16, 2009, 05:17:03 PM
It also seems a bit silly at this point to base incentive bonuses on enemy population, considering that if the enemy has too many people in the zone, the population cap hits them and they start losing members.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Typhon on July 16, 2009, 07:31:43 PM
Wow, an ass-load of negativity on what I think are good changes.  I'd really like to play a WAR that can sustain some degree of fun that I had in WAR from 1-15, 1-20.  This is at least a start toward something worth coming back for.  I hope they can keep it up with the next couple patches.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on July 16, 2009, 08:46:14 PM
It also seems a bit silly at this point to base incentive bonuses on enemy population, considering that if the enemy has too many people in the zone, the population cap hits them and they start losing members.

Just make a requirement that in order to get a gold bag the defenders have to have between 25 and 30 defenders present for 30 minutes and that would be perfect   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Ashamanchill on July 16, 2009, 10:50:11 PM
Wow, an ass-load of negativity on what I think are good changes.  I'd really like to play a WAR that can sustain some degree of fun that I had in WAR from 1-15, 1-20.  This is at least a start toward something worth coming back for.  I hope they can keep it up with the next couple patches.

This is the first time that they have made the right decision in a long time.  I mean, old Mythic would have extended the length of the ccs, or had a picture of Paul's face show up on your screen yelling 'waaaaagh' every time you were disabled.  It's just a an extreme case of a day late and a buck short.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Falwell on July 17, 2009, 12:41:54 AM

This is the first time that they have made the right decision in a long time.  I mean, old Mythic would have extended the length of the ccs, or had a picture of Paul's face show up on your screen yelling 'waaaaagh' every time you were disabled.  It's just a an extreme case of a day late and a buck short.

Bullshit, one good string of fixes / patches will get players attention, and that's been proven. AoC is doing it right now and these games were in almost identical states. Massive budgets, huge initial box sales, massive initial player loss, head honcho removal, great initial content with shit endgame etc. etc.

Points for the Barnett CC alert however.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on July 17, 2009, 08:23:20 AM
AoC is doing it right now and these games were in almost identical states.

Just because 15 people on F13 gave it a go doesn't mean it's booming.  AoC is still pretty dead.  Now LOTRO, on the other hand.......


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 17, 2009, 09:40:27 AM


Just because 15 people on F13 gave it a go doesn't mean it's booming.  AoC is still pretty dead. 

AoC is more than fine now.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on July 17, 2009, 09:51:57 AM


Just because 15 people on F13 gave it a go doesn't mean it's booming.  AoC is still pretty dead. 

AoC is more than fine now.

It's really not that populated.  Chat consists of the same 20 people making sex jokes.  There's no sense in arguing about it though. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: amiable on July 17, 2009, 10:55:29 AM
If they made it so I wouldn't have to do any boring PvE grinds to get PvP gear, I would consider re-upping to see the changes. 

Seriously though, we were telling them to do this eight months ago.  These are frigging OBVIOUS changes that any semi-literate person could institute.  Why did this take so long to imlplement?  Was it simply an ego thing, that the designers could not stand to be told that they were wrong and needed to re-jigger things?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lantyssa on July 17, 2009, 11:13:58 AM
As an educated guess?  Yes.

We had Jacobs here, and laid out exactly what they needed to do.  It was a pretty solid consensus, too, so it's not like we were giving conflicting signals.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on July 17, 2009, 11:14:49 AM
Easy, they made the inept decision to put out LOTD first rather then focus on the existing game in that time lost people quit out of frustration.  They can still fix everything in the game I have issues with but im still going to play Aion because of how long this sh*t has taken.  


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 17, 2009, 12:07:41 PM
LOTD first while Jacobs was at the helm.

Watch. I bet they start ramping up fixes to XP, CC and other stuff real quick. That doesn't mean they fix the underlying design flaws but it's going to be EXACTLY like Conan's trajectory.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soulflame on July 17, 2009, 12:31:08 PM
As an educated guess?  Yes.

We had Jacobs here, and laid out exactly what they needed to do.  It was a pretty solid consensus, too, so it's not like we were giving conflicting signals.

The horrifying aspect of those conversations was Jacobs' harebrained insistence on "scenario-less" alternative ruleset servers saving the day, when it was clearly "tier 3" or "Tor 'hell on earth oh god the knockbacks' Anroc" that were the issues.  Neither has been resolved, to my knowledge.  In fact, their attempt to deflect people away from running only certain scenarios, which was to put a time limit on how often the scenarios could be run, was to increase the amount of time people were waiting around for a scenario to pop.  Mostly because the other scenarios had bad xp/renown rewards for time spent, or were utter clusterfucks of design that no one liked.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on July 17, 2009, 01:54:19 PM
the fundamental difference is that with AoC you don't need an equal and opposite number of rival players to have fun.  So yeah my money would be on AoC pulling a LotRO than for WAR pulling an EVE.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Morfiend on July 17, 2009, 03:15:47 PM


Just because 15 people on F13 gave it a go doesn't mean it's booming.  AoC is still pretty dead. 

AoC is more than fine now.

It's really not that populated.  Chat consists of the same 20 people making sex jokes.  There's no sense in arguing about it though. 

That's cause you are playing on Agony. On Cimmeria, its brimming with players. They are all over the place. Almost to overcrowding.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Threash on July 17, 2009, 04:57:18 PM
the fundamental difference is that with AoC you don't need an equal and opposite number of rival players to have fun.  So yeah my money would be on AoC pulling a LotRO than for WAR pulling an EVE.

Also the fact that AoCs problems, while numerous, were very fixable (retarded loot, lack of content, bugs).  While WAR is simply a broken game that cannot handle enough people to be fun, the fact that they had to put a population cap on their new content just speaks volumes to the limitations of their game.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Fraeg on July 17, 2009, 05:46:55 PM

 I haven't played in maybe 8 months

Have they:

-fixed the V-card bug where the game only recognizes 1/2 your cards memory   :tantrum:
-fixed or changed some magic setting so that large RvR isn't a slide show for people who, while well above the minimum specs, are not on the bleeding edge?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Threash on July 17, 2009, 06:01:27 PM

-fixed or changed some magic setting so that large RvR isn't a slide show for people who, while well above the minimum specs, are not on the bleeding edge?

Yeah, they "fixed" it with population caps.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: columba on July 18, 2009, 12:50:22 AM
The changes needed were blindingly obvious since launch.  The real problem is that Mythic tried to be all things to all people, never having the courage to make difficult choices.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Falwell on July 18, 2009, 09:46:32 AM
LOTD first while Jacobs was at the helm.

Watch. I bet they start ramping up fixes to XP, CC and other stuff real quick. That doesn't mean they fix the underlying design flaws but it's going to be EXACTLY like Conan's trajectory.

Bingo, I have this funny feeling the departure of Jacobs and the push of...


those changes aren't a coincidence.





Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Tannhauser on July 18, 2009, 10:25:29 AM
So now Mythic is coming, hat in hand, with fixes and improvements?  Har! 

I do hope they fix the game and make it amazing, but it's just too late;  Aion is coming out and many pvp folks will at least try that for a while.  The PVE is better than WAR's from what I've seen.  I'd like to see a new Mythic game without MJ; they do have great artists and writers IMO.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 18, 2009, 12:02:33 PM
I have always said that I'll be the first to give them a pat on the back when they do something right. They're doing something right. That's good. It's to be commended. Mind you, it's okay to laugh about it happening all of two weeks after Jacobs gets shitcanned the same way it was okay to laugh about Conan doing the exact same thing two weeks after Gaute was.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: DLRiley on July 18, 2009, 02:16:32 PM
I think someone at Mythic is going to have a Age of Conan moment where Funcom realized that while their main gameplay (ganking) was cute the real dollars were in their under funded enterprises (pve). Thats the only way i see Mythic slavaging WAR, understanding that RVR regardless of incentive isn't going to save their game. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 18, 2009, 04:01:21 PM
At this point, nothing can save WAR.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 18, 2009, 04:58:36 PM
Define "save". Depending on their costs and overhead, they can chug along with the subs they have, maybe less. How EA affects things is a different matter but in a vacuum it's fine. Not a raging success but enough to keep a company on.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: DLRiley on July 18, 2009, 05:21:34 PM
Save to Mythic is keeping the "WAR IS EVERYWHERE" kids happy.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 18, 2009, 05:33:08 PM
Well, they ain't going to do that through more PvE. Ragging on them or not, those CC changes are a tremendous start.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: amiable on July 18, 2009, 05:35:51 PM
I think someone at Mythic is going to have a Age of Conan moment where Funcom realized that while their main gameplay (ganking) was cute the real dollars were in their under funded enterprises (pve). Thats the only way i see Mythic slavaging WAR, understanding that RVR regardless of incentive isn't going to save their game. 

PvE?  Are you serious?  PvE is the PROBLEM in WAR not the solution.  The designers massively f-ed up by creating a mandatory slog through their crappy PvE to get to the fun stuff (RvR).  You will NEVER out PvE the competition (LOTRO, WOW), the only way WAR will ever have a hope of getting any revenue back is to focus like a laser beam on RvR, encourage the elements that are fun and remove the elements that are not.  Hint:  They should spend some time analyzing why Tier 1 and Tier 2 RvR was terrific but the rest of their RvR game sucked.  


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 18, 2009, 05:43:35 PM
Define "save". Depending on their costs and overhead, they can chug along with the subs they have, maybe less. How EA affects things is a different matter but in a vacuum it's fine. Not a raging success but enough to keep a company on.

Save as in keep running, I think it's doomed, apart from the numerous other reasons, having fun relies on other players too much.  10 minutes waiting for a scenario to pop gets frustrating, so you stop queuing, so now it's 11 minutes for someone else, it builds and builds till the server dies.  So I don't see why the same thing won't happen when they only have one US server left.  Cross realm scenario queueing might have bought them some time a few months ago, but I think even that wouldn't save it now.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Falwell on July 18, 2009, 05:57:29 PM
As an added note to the above changes, it appears almost, if not all, AoE is getting it's damage reduced significantly from what people are saying about the PTR build.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: DLRiley on July 18, 2009, 06:15:38 PM
I think someone at Mythic is going to have a Age of Conan moment where Funcom realized that while their main gameplay (ganking) was cute the real dollars were in their under funded enterprises (pve). Thats the only way i see Mythic slavaging WAR, understanding that RVR regardless of incentive isn't going to save their game. 

PvE?  Are you serious?  PvE is the PROBLEM in WAR not the solution.  The designers massively f-ed up by creating a mandatory slog through their crappy PvE to get to the fun stuff (RvR).  You will NEVER out PvE the competition (LOTRO, WOW), the only way WAR will ever have a hope of getting any revenue back is to focus like a laser beam on RvR, encourage the elements that are fun and remove the elements that are not.  Hint:  They should spend some time analyzing why Tier 1 and Tier 2 RvR was terrific but the rest of their RvR game sucked.  

I know your missing the point. If Mythic had real balls then they would have stopped the progression at tier 2. But they didn't so here is what is wrong with the game. RVR is boring, not everyone who found WAR enjoyable in tiers 1-2 found it fun because you can steam roll people in rvr lakes, it was because you could pve and the scenarios were fun to play and was not treated as a method to grind xp/rr. When you hit tier 3 and finally tier 4 only 1 game type is supported by WAR and that is keep seiges. By that time you run out of pve to slog through and scenarios are blatantly only exist as a tool to grind. People avoided doing rvr because rvr is boring, and when you ask all 500k subscribers to bang their dick against a castles door or leave then it should be no surprised they left. Adding incentives to bang dick against doors keeps the current player base and aids in Mythics survival mode for WAR. Actually providing something else for players to do not only saves WAR but provides a playerbase rvr actually needs to survive. Age of Conan could have closed all pve severs and added full loot on death and would have kept 50k subs and paid the light bill that way. But Funcom decided that making money is kinda important so they decided that people might actually want to do something besides ganking each other. Fuck EVE supports a playstyle besides camping warp gates.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: rattran on July 18, 2009, 06:21:07 PM

I know your missing the point. If Mythic had real balls then they would have stopped the progression at tier 2. But they didn't so here is what is wrong with the game. RVR is boring, not everyone who found WAR enjoyable in tiers 1-2 found it fun because you can steam roll people in rvr lakes, it was because you could pve and the scenarios were fun to play and was not treated as a method to grind xp/rr. When you hit tier 3 and finally tier 4 only 1 game type is supported by WAR and that is keep seiges. By that time you run out of pve to slog through and scenarios are blatantly only exist as a tool to grind. People avoided doing rvr because rvr is boring, and when you ask all 500k subscribers to bang their dick against a castles door or leave then it should be no surprised they left. Adding incentives to bang dick against doors keeps the current player base and aids in Mythics survival mode for WAR. Actually providing something else for players to do not only saves WAR but provides a playerbase rvr actually needs to survive. Age of Conan could have closed all pve severs and added full loot on death and would have kept 50k subs and paid the light bill that way. But Funcom decided that making money is kinda important so they decided that people might actually want to do something besides ganking each other. Fuck EVE supports a playstyle besides camping warp gates.

Psycho.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: columba on July 18, 2009, 07:59:52 PM
I don't believe that it makes financial sense for EA to attempt to save that game.  Its problems are too fundamental.  A flawed game engine, poorly designed zones, pve focused endgame and chronically unbalanceable classes.  Fixing it will cost millions and will likely generate far less cash than the cost.  This is a business not a charity.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Threash on July 18, 2009, 08:52:34 PM
I have always said that I'll be the first to give them a pat on the back when they do something right. They're doing something right. That's good. It's to be commended. Mind you, it's okay to laugh about it happening all of two weeks after Jacobs gets shitcanned the same way it was okay to laugh about Conan doing the exact same thing two weeks after Gaute was.

They really aren't though.  This changes were supposed to be on the last patch but got pulled because of massive concerns about balance.  Nerfing EVERY SINGLE AoE ability in exactly the same manner is incredibly fucking retarded.  Its not blackguards wiping out whole warbands with their AoE, its not marauders that need nerfing (fucking AoE detaunt is now MELEE RANGE), it wasnt war priests using smite that was the problem.  This is a huge fucking mistake, they are taking a sledgehammer to something that requires a scalpel, the last time this patch was pulled they promised instead they would look at EACH INDIVIDUAL ability and adjust them as needed.  Instead all they've done is nerf everything by a set number, and call it a day.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 18, 2009, 10:22:14 PM
They fired their entire QA staff. Whatcha gonna do?

I got curious and looked over the old suggested changes and these seem more in tune with what people want though the AE change is a bit off.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: amiable on July 19, 2009, 06:59:20 AM


I know your missing the point. If Mythic had real balls then they would have stopped the progression at tier 2. But they didn't so here is what is wrong with the game. RVR is boring, not everyone who found WAR enjoyable in tiers 1-2 found it fun because you can steam roll people in rvr lakes, it was because you could pve and the scenarios were fun to play and was not treated as a method to grind xp/rr. When you hit tier 3 and finally tier 4 only 1 game type is supported by WAR and that is keep seiges. By that time you run out of pve to slog through and scenarios are blatantly only exist as a tool to grind. People avoided doing rvr because rvr is boring, and when you ask all 500k subscribers to bang their dick against a castles door or leave then it should be no surprised they left. Adding incentives to bang dick against doors keeps the current player base and aids in Mythics survival mode for WAR. Actually providing something else for players to do not only saves WAR but provides a playerbase rvr actually needs to survive. Age of Conan could have closed all pve severs and added full loot on death and would have kept 50k subs and paid the light bill that way. But Funcom decided that making money is kinda important so they decided that people might actually want to do something besides ganking each other. Fuck EVE supports a playstyle besides camping warp gates.

Thank you, I will no longer confuse your posts with someone who knows what the hell they are talking about.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Typhon on July 19, 2009, 09:23:07 AM
they promised instead they would look at EACH INDIVIDUAL ability and adjust them as needed.  Instead all they've done is nerf everything by a set number, and call it a day.

To MA's point, this is something that a business that is struggling with staff reductions would do.

They need to decouple the scenarios from RvR and have them pull from the full WAR population to minimize the queue times.  If they blunt the impact of CC, the scenarios are fun and can sustain the existing population enough to give them time to figure out how to make RvR entertaining.  Decoupling PvE from RvR would be the next FUCKING OBVIOUS thing to do.

After that, they are pretty much stuck with a bunch of bad design choices.  1v1 RvR seems inherently susceptible to population imbalances.  The only fix I can even imagine having a halfway decent chance of being successful is if there were some means of temporarily augmenting a conflict (keep offense/defense) with population from the total population pool - let's call it "reinforcements".



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: nurtsi on July 19, 2009, 10:03:30 AM
I just logged back in with the 10 free trial thingy. Getting stuck inside torches in Keeps in T2, unable to unstuck since I'm in combat. UI settings cannot be saved, but you have to manually edit the XML file on your harddisk if you want to adjust your settings. The game won't even start if your desktop resolution is different from the one you selected in game... Fucking amateur hour.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: columba on July 19, 2009, 03:25:40 PM
I just logged back in with the 10 free trial thingy. Getting stuck inside torches in Keeps in T2, unable to unstuck since I'm in combat. UI settings cannot be saved, but you have to manually edit the XML file on your harddisk if you want to adjust your settings. The game won't even start if your desktop resolution is different from the one you selected in game... Fucking amateur hour.

This made me chuckle, especially the last line.  Seriously, does mythic even HAVE quality control, or do they leave it to the players to do their dirty work?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: DLRiley on July 19, 2009, 04:18:58 PM
Thank you, I will no longer confuse your posts with someone who knows what the hell they are talking about.

Just as long as there isn't another rvr game being made that isn't wow with asian graphics i'm happy.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: amiable on July 19, 2009, 06:27:51 PM
Thank you, I will no longer confuse your posts with someone who knows what the hell they are talking about.

Just as long as there isn't another rvr game being made that isn't wow with asian graphics i'm happy.

After WAR's crashing and burning I suspect you may get your wish.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on July 19, 2009, 06:57:13 PM
we can expect EA's Q1 earnings presentation by July 28 or 29th. Maybe Paul will host?  do a dance?  WAUUGGH!


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on July 19, 2009, 10:16:30 PM
I don't believe that it makes financial sense for EA to attempt to save that game. 

Ultimately that is what is going to kill WAR. If breakeven is 500k players and they are struggling to make 300k, WAR is going to die even if the devs do everything right from here on in. When they do switch the servers off, players are going to rant that WAR had turned the corner, with Jacobs gone things were improving, that if they only leave it running a bit longer things will be fixed (just like with TR). However, the truth (unless EA is making killer profits elsewhere it needs to hide, so WAR serves as a nice buffer for that) is that it can't be making enough money to pay back its development costs.

Assuming that Jacobs was accurate with his figures, of course. And I think he was, because he really wanted to boast about how much money got poured into WAR and how big the player base was going to be.

we can expect EA's Q1 earnings presentation by July 28 or 29th. Maybe Paul will host?  do a dance?  WAUUGGH!

Barnett's a rock star, so I expect an 8 minute guitar solo while he's dressed only in sliver sequinned pants.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: columba on July 20, 2009, 12:03:58 AM
I don't believe that it makes financial sense for EA to attempt to save that game. 

Ultimately that is what is going to kill WAR. If breakeven is 500k players and they are struggling to make 300k, WAR is going to die even if the devs do everything right from here on in. When they do switch the servers off, players are going to rant that WAR had turned the corner, with Jacobs gone things were improving, that if they only leave it running a bit longer things will be fixed (just like with TR). However, the truth (unless EA is making killer profits elsewhere it needs to hide, so WAR serves as a nice buffer for that) is that it can't be making enough money to pay back its development costs.

Assuming that Jacobs was accurate with his figures, of course. And I think he was, because he really wanted to boast about how much money got poured into WAR and how big the player base was going to be.

we can expect EA's Q1 earnings presentation by July 28 or 29th. Maybe Paul will host?  do a dance?  WAUUGGH!

Barnett's a rock star, so I expect an 8 minute guitar solo while he's dressed only in sliver sequinned pants.


I doubt Jacobs really knew the breakeven point.  Even if the breakeven point were 300k, EA would still not be smart to put more money into this, because they need a decent return on the incremental investment from here forward.  In other words, they'd need well above breakeven subs to pay out the investment to fix the game.  No one in their right mind would expect even a fixed version of this game to garner that.

Paul would probably dress like a slayer to do the conference call.  I never trusted that guy.  LOL, he didn't even enjoy pvp.  I have no idea what his job was, other than to bilk customers out of their hard earned money.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on July 20, 2009, 08:10:41 AM
Even if the breakeven point were 300k, EA would still not be smart to put more money into this, because they need a decent return on the incremental investment from here forward. 

This is pretty much the key.  EA has been having too much trouble financially to have a boat anchor like WAR dragging their resources down.  I'm sure they would much rather have their talent working on something that could have a huge ROI, e.g. KOTOR MMO, versus having them work on a project that is barely breaking even. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: DLRiley on July 20, 2009, 08:24:37 AM
So Daoc and Ultima Online gets sacrificed before the alter of SWTOR?  :drill:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Hawkbit on July 20, 2009, 09:56:38 AM
The sad part of this is that reading these threads over the past few days is making me want to play through T1 Greenskin again.  But I know how that book ends, with me unsubbing because of mid-T2. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on July 20, 2009, 10:41:32 AM
So Daoc and Ultima Online gets sacrificed before the alter of SWTOR?  :drill:

Yes, bow before your new god


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Der Helm on July 20, 2009, 10:52:46 AM
The sad part of this is that reading these threads over the past few days is making me want to play through T1 Greenskin again.  But I know how that book ends, with me unsubbing because of mid-T2. 
Everytime someone posts this, I scratch my head and ask myself what exactly was so much fun about T1.

I played the free trial and none of the starter areas I tried and none of the classes yelled "FUN!" at me.

If found the whole experience bland and uninteresting and the combat just infuriating unresponsive.

I had more fun in LOTRO during me free trial, and I liked the combat better.

What did I do wrong ?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on July 20, 2009, 10:56:11 AM
Everytime someone posts this, I scratch my head and ask myself what exactly was so much fun about T1.

Accessible pvp.  Little to no CC.  Decent balance, particularly among groups.  Rapid progression.  Small, but fun maps.  

For us ex-DAoC players, it feels like Thid v2.0


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: tazelbain on July 20, 2009, 10:57:04 AM
I really loved the chaos starter area.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Hindenburg on July 20, 2009, 11:10:16 AM
Accessible pvp.  Little to no CC.  Decent balance, particularly among groups.

After the second alt, you start to realize that all of that only applies from levels 8 to 10. 1-7 is pretty much /yawn.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on July 20, 2009, 12:07:16 PM
After the second alt, you start to realize that all of that only applies from levels 8 to 10. 1-7 is pretty much /yawn.

True.  I argued near release that the game could be boiled down to 12 levels since the 3 nearest cap for each tier are the only levels that are relevent. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Hawkbit on July 20, 2009, 12:29:19 PM
Everytime someone posts this, I scratch my head and ask myself what exactly was so much fun about T1.

Accessible pvp.  Little to no CC.  Decent balance, particularly among groups.  Rapid progression.  Small, but fun maps.  

For us ex-DAoC players, it feels like Thid v2.0

It was most fun in beta, because all the players were focused in one area, so PQs were overflowing with people.  The two biggest failings (imo) of WAR was the grind to get to 40 and they built too much land for too few players.  If they had made it so leveling a 40 casually took 3-4 weeks, they would have retained me for at least a few months so I could play through a few classes.  All the ward gear shit could have sorted itself out later.  Hell, wasn't even necessary. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Threash on July 20, 2009, 01:57:27 PM
If they really go through with that blanket AoE nerf i don't see them surviving.  A lot of classes that have been expecting fixes for a LONG time getting nerfed instead in order to correct a problem with a few overpowered abilities will kill whatever little patience most players have left.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on July 20, 2009, 05:18:42 PM
Aaaand the 1.3.whateverthefuck patch goes from test to live!

Quote from: http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=864
You may have read the Producer's Letter from yesterday (if not check it out!) and thought to yourself "How long am I going to have to wait to sink my teeth into 1.3.0b?"

The answer? As long as it takes you to patch your PTS client! (How to access the PTS Server)

To make things a bit more exciting, we've also turned on the Return to Nordenwatch weekend event, so no matter what Rank you are, you can duke it out in this beloved Scenario as you get back to basics and tell us what you think on the 1.3.0b Public Test Forums!

It's been about a month since 1.3 rolled your way and we started discussing "The future of WAR." Since you've been fighting in the sands and exploring the ancient Necropolis of Zandri and Tomb of the Vulture Lord, we've been working tirelessly to bring some of our goals to life.

1.3.0b primarily focuses on Combat & Career changes with an emphasis on area-of-effect and crowd control abilities, in addition to delivering the revised Mastery trees and improvements for the Archmage and Shaman. To top it all off, we've got a host of other tasty changes to better sate your appetite.

We're not done yet though, and this is only one step of many we have planned for accomplishing the goals we set out to achieve with the release of 1.3. So, read on for the 1.3.0b PTS Highlights and Patch Notes, and join us for the PTS of 1.3.0b. Be sure to visit the official forums to share your feedback and help to squash any bugs you come across!


After 4 days of testing massive AOE changes and they roll the retard onto the stage. Brilliant!


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Der Helm on July 20, 2009, 05:25:40 PM
1-7 is pretty much /yawn.
Ah. That must have been it, never got past level 5 or 6 I think, PvP was not fun at this level and PvE progression already felt slooooow.

Also the crazy timer that delayed every action from using an ability to opening my inventory or a menu made for a very sluggish feeling play experience.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Hindenburg on July 20, 2009, 05:30:47 PM
After 4 days of testing massive AOE changes and they roll the retard onto the stage. Brilliant!

Readind is a bit hard today, I take it?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lum on July 20, 2009, 07:53:24 PM
After 4 days of testing massive AOE changes and they roll the retard onto the stage. Brilliant!

Readind is a bit hard today, I take it?

The Herald headline is 1.3.0b Public Test Server - Now Live!. The mistake at first glance is understandable, though it's pretty obvious in the actual notes that they're talking about a new test build.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Hayduke on July 20, 2009, 09:43:16 PM
After 4 days of testing massive AOE changes and they roll the retard onto the stage. Brilliant!

Readind is a bit hard today, I take it?

The Herald headline is 1.3.0b Public Test Server - Now Live!. The mistake at first glance is understandable, though it's pretty obvious in the actual notes that they're talking about a new test build.

He's actually not wrong.  He simply posted the wrong link.  There's nothing on the herald yet, but this is on the PTS forums.

PTS going down in preparation for Live update (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/board/message?board.id=pts_announcements&thread.id=62)

Quote from: Andy-Mythic
Our Game Update 1.3.0b Public Test has come to a close, and Warpstone is currently down in preparation for the launch of 1.3.0b this week.

 
Thank you to everyone who participated in the 1.3.0b Public Test. Your feedback and contribution is much appreciated.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 20, 2009, 10:10:32 PM
Really, is there anything to lose at this point?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Der Helm on July 20, 2009, 10:53:08 PM
Really, is there anything to lose at this point?
Honour ?

Dignitiy ?

Their paycheck ?


... who am I kidding...  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: columba on July 21, 2009, 02:30:18 AM
I found this on the OF from Andy.  It looks as though they do intend to push this live, soon.

"Folks,
Before I lock this thread It's important to reiterate on what we've said.
These changes needed to occur before we could rationally adjust the abilities of careers. AoE's were far too cost to benefit effective across the board. Each careers abilities were adjust by hand, but a global reduction of AoE effectiveness needed to occur for us to get anywhere."

I dont' really get this.  If they can adjust each ability by hand and did so already, why don't they pursue that path vs. the global nerf?  Presumably they could make larger changes to the most problematic skills.



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on July 21, 2009, 09:50:28 AM
THey need to clarify better.

AE Heals = reduced from x range to y range(Class ilrelevant)
AE Morale cone dmg = reduced from x degrees to Y degrees(Class ilrelevant)
PBAOE dmg = reduced from x range to y range(Class ilrelevant)
Ranged AE Dmg = reduced from x range to y range(Class ilrelevant)

By doing this they didnt go through each class, just the general ability type and nerf every class that uses it across the board. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on July 21, 2009, 01:24:10 PM
By doing this they didnt go through each class, just the general ability type and nerf every class that uses it across the board. 

Yeah... many Marauders will be either quitting or rerolling to an OP class due to the lack of thought put into this patch. 

Another band-aid fix for a game that needs a heart transplant. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on July 21, 2009, 02:54:37 PM
By doing this they didnt go through each class, just the general ability type and nerf every class that uses it across the board. 

Yeah... many Marauders will be either quitting or rerolling to an OP class due to the lack of thought put into this patch. 

Another band-aid fix for a game that needs a heart transplant. 

Them plus tanks.  A tanks job is largely to AE CC, its never been overpowered and its their job to protect healers, hold the line, etc.  They got nerfed and there was no need for it. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Kail on July 21, 2009, 06:41:41 PM
Yeah... many Marauders will be either quitting or rerolling to an OP class due to the lack of thought put into this patch. 

Really?  I thought Marauders were more focused DPS than AOE; I know White Lions were, when I played.  A global AOE nerf would seem to me to make melee DPS more viable (less "ranged DPS chucks AOEs at front line, tanks get healed [in theory, anyway], melee DPS goes down again").


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Hindenburg on July 21, 2009, 06:50:12 PM
Demolition was awesome. They just screwed that.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Threash on July 21, 2009, 10:25:30 PM
Yeah... many Marauders will be either quitting or rerolling to an OP class due to the lack of thought put into this patch.  

Really?  I thought Marauders were more focused DPS than AOE; I know White Lions were, when I played.  A global AOE nerf would seem to me to make melee DPS more viable (less "ranged DPS chucks AOEs at front line, tanks get healed [in theory, anyway], melee DPS goes down again").

Focused dps is only good in duels and scenarios, specially for marauders since their single target dps ability had to be used from behind.  You can't use that in 90% of the end game, single target positional based melee dps is simply useless in the game they designed.  My marauder was incredibly effective by staying behind the lines and using my mid range AoE attack that drained ap on crits.  Single target dps marauders were like wow dagger rogues, but without stealth or cc.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Falwell on July 22, 2009, 05:03:08 AM
Full patch notes in the spoiler. (Warning, huge list)

http://herald.warhammeronline.com/patchnotes/index.php?id=2009_1-3-0b



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Chockonuts on July 22, 2009, 01:30:36 PM

BLIZZARD ENTERTAINMENT AND LEGENDARY PICTURES SIGN SAM RAIMI TO DIRECT UPCOMING WARCRAFT® MOVIE (http://www.blizzard.com/us/press/090721.html)



"At its core, Warcraft is a fantastic, action-packed story," said Raimi. "I am thrilled to work with such a dynamite production team to bring this project to the big screen."

Charles Roven’s producing talents were recently seen with last summer’s blockbuster The Dark Knight, which grossed in excess of $1 billion, was nominated for eight Academy Awards® and won two. His body of work also includes the widely acclaimed Batman Begins and the sci-fi classic 12 Monkeys. Roven, with Atlas producing partner Alex Gartner, will be producing with Legendary Pictures CEO Thomas Tull, Legendary’s Chief Creative Officer Jon Jashni, Raimi and Raimi’s producing partner Joshua Donen. Raimi’s partner, Robert Tapert, will be an Executive Producer and Blizzard Entertainment’s Senior Vice President of Creative Development, Chris Metzen, a Co-Producer.


Simply amazing watching WoW continue to rise, and WAR continue to swirl around the bowl.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Hayduke on July 22, 2009, 02:14:23 PM
Do you really have to be such a tool.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on July 22, 2009, 02:46:40 PM
WOW movie will be out before WHO fixes their game


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Morfiend on July 22, 2009, 03:48:14 PM

BLIZZARD ENTERTAINMENT AND LEGENDARY PICTURES SIGN SAM RAIMI TO DIRECT UPCOMING WARCRAFT® MOVIE (http://www.blizzard.com/us/press/090721.html)



"At its core, Warcraft is a fantastic, action-packed story," said Raimi. "I am thrilled to work with such a dynamite production team to bring this project to the big screen."

Charles Roven’s producing talents were recently seen with last summer’s blockbuster The Dark Knight, which grossed in excess of $1 billion, was nominated for eight Academy Awards® and won two. His body of work also includes the widely acclaimed Batman Begins and the sci-fi classic 12 Monkeys. Roven, with Atlas producing partner Alex Gartner, will be producing with Legendary Pictures CEO Thomas Tull, Legendary’s Chief Creative Officer Jon Jashni, Raimi and Raimi’s producing partner Joshua Donen. Raimi’s partner, Robert Tapert, will be an Executive Producer and Blizzard Entertainment’s Senior Vice President of Creative Development, Chris Metzen, a Co-Producer.


Simply amazing watching WoW continue to rise, and WAR continue to swirl around the bowl.

Completely the wrong thread for this. We can all have fun laughing at WAR's failure, but don't douche up the thread.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on July 22, 2009, 04:25:44 PM
just to be clear 1.3.0b is live not in test

Quote
We will be bringing all North American and Oceanic servers offline this morning for Game Update 1.3.0b.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: HaemishM on July 22, 2009, 04:46:24 PM
Wait, the complete AOE nerf went live to the actual paying public servers with how much testing? I see the first note in this thread about it is on July 18th, and the live date is July 21st. Did they really test this for no more than 3 days? Shit, if it got less than 2 weeks of testing, that's just :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Hayduke on July 22, 2009, 05:00:15 PM
Wait, the complete AOE nerf went live to the actual paying public servers with how much testing? I see the first note in this thread about it is on July 18th, and the live date is July 21st. Did they really test this for no more than 3 days? Shit, if it got less than 2 weeks of testing, that's just :ye_gods:

It went on PTS on the 16th.  On the 20th they announced they were taking down the PTS in preparation for rolling the patch out to Live.  I guess now it's on Live.

The confusion was that on the 20th waffel accurately said that Mythic was taking down PTS to put up the Live patch, but he posted the wrong article.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: HaemishM on July 22, 2009, 06:08:53 PM
5 days of public testing on an across the board AOE nerf?   :ye_gods:

Somebody is smoking something fierce.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lantyssa on July 22, 2009, 06:36:23 PM
It totally passed their QA staff!


(That QA was one of the stacked divisions is unimportant.)


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: 01101010 on July 22, 2009, 06:55:25 PM
So much for the PTS. You have to admit, with less and less people jumping on in the evenings and even less of a turn out for the PTS, its not a leap to see the staff just throw their hands up and say hell with it, but it in and see if it floats.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on July 22, 2009, 08:22:16 PM
To be fair they never wanted player feedback anyway. Guess they figured that instead of acting like it by keeping patches on the PTS for a few weeks they'd just cut the bullshit and push shit live.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Sir T on July 22, 2009, 09:47:26 PM
At this stage they have nothing to lose, really.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on July 22, 2009, 10:15:26 PM
5 days of public testing on an across the board AOE nerf?   :ye_gods:

Somebody is smoking something fierce.

If it works on Mythic's spreadsheets, why would you need to spend time on something as useless as player testing?  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: tazelbain on July 23, 2009, 12:17:58 AM
At this stage they have nothing to lose, really.
Agreed.  If its not going bring down the server, it needs to go out the door.  They have nearly a year's worth of catch-up.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on July 23, 2009, 12:55:30 AM
they may be looking over their shoulder.  Thread on VN said the patch coincided with the beta weekend preview for Aion.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: DLRiley on July 23, 2009, 02:52:10 AM
At this stage they have nothing to lose, really.
Agreed.  If its not going bring down the server, it needs to go out the door.  They have nearly a year's worth of catch-up.

if they have nothing left to lose why not remove tier 3 and 4 by now.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 23, 2009, 03:19:40 AM
Gaarawarr Gabs with Josh Drescher – Part 1 (http://gaarawarrgabs.wordpress.com/2009/07/22/gaarawarr-gabs-with-josh-drescher-part-1/)

Quote
GG:  So there are always rumors, but are there any plans for future races implemented within WAR?

Josh:  Obviously, when we launched, we did not use all the armies.  Certainly one of the things that we would potentially be looking to do in the future would be adding more.  The thing you have to be careful of, and this is just a lesson we’ve learned from making these types of games for 15 years, is you can get to the point where you’ve potentially added way too many and you wind up watering things down.  At the moment, our focus is definitively on improving the stuff that is currently within the game, so you want to fix things before you add additional things.  That’s a bit of a dodge, but absolutely one of the things that’s on the table though would be adding new races.
...
At the moment, one of the discussions we are having, obviously based strongly off of player feedback, is “What is the appropriate role of Crowd Control?”  I’m sure you have talked to Nate (Levy, C&C Strike Team Lead) and his guys about this at great length, but those are legitimate questions and we’re obviously not happy with where the game is in terms of that now.  You know some of those things are fixing actual bugs that are causing things to behave incorrectly.  But then there are also fundamental philosophical questions and discussions that need to be had about whether or not we currently have things set up in the right way in terms of how we expect those different archetypes to behave on the battlefield.

Over the next 6 to 9 months, you are going to see a lot of that type of internal soul-searching going on trying to really ego-check a lot of decisions we have made.  Because it is very easy to look back on something that you know in your gut is wrong and try to construct a defense around it.  That is almost never the right answer.  The right answer is almost always to go “It doesn’t matter why we chose to do this thing, but that it turned out not to work the way we would like it to.”  The only thing that matters is that we have the clarity of vision and the sort of fortitude necessary to look straight at it and go “OK, we need to make some changes.”  And that is where we are right now with a lot of things.

What Jeff (Hickman) was talking about over the last couple of months in his Producer’s Letters has been an effort to be as open as we ever can be about those types of things.  I realize that there is always a level of frustration because people want there to be some sort of Frost/Nixon moment where Jeff just lays bare all of the internal workings of the studio and explains in great detail exactly when certain changes are coming and so forth.  We can never be that detailed because it’s always in flux.  It’s always a fluid sort of process.

But we’ve been trying to send a message though, over the last 3 or 4 months, that we really are in a position now where we, as a studio, feel confident that we can look with a critical eye at a lot of the choices that were made over the development of the game and that we are supported on all sides.  From above, from below, from all around…EA is with us.  BioWare is with us.  Our own internal leadership is with us saying “The right thing to do is to make the best possible choices for improving the game.”  So that does not limit us in some sort of way.

New races now only "potentially" planned, "ego-check" everything.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Fordel on July 23, 2009, 03:52:56 AM
Hindsight is a hell of a thing.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Falwell on July 23, 2009, 04:21:40 AM
To put it more succinctly...

"Now that a certain, overbearing, high level gentleman is no longer with us, we can actually look into fixing the real problems."

Barnett is a deep fried douchebag, Jacobs made sorry attempts at feigned modesty, Hickman I'm not sure on yet but leaning towards douchey by osmosis from his counterpart. Drescher is the one cat on the team (in the public eye) that strikes me as a half decent guy.





Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: 01101010 on July 23, 2009, 06:08:54 AM
Interesting quote. I hear overtones of "Well, this is how we planned for the classes to operate on the battlefront, but the players fucked that up so we have to rethink and restructure our plan. Then we can address and change those classes and be guilt free if everything jumps off the cliff since it was the players' fault to begin with." On the other hand, he does come off as genuine and seems to have an intention of addressing the issues and he does give a hint of PR credibility. Little too late?

I do find the part where he says Bioware is with us to be pretty funny, or horribly sad if he truly thinks that.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on July 23, 2009, 08:31:38 AM
6 to 9 months..lol.  Aion will wipe a nice percentage of their player base...6 to 9 months from now there wont be more then 3 servers left.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lantyssa on July 23, 2009, 08:42:01 AM
they may be looking over their shoulder.  Thread on VN said the patch coincided with the beta weekend preview for Aion.
Almost every weekend is a beta preview.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on July 23, 2009, 09:34:56 AM
they may be looking over their shoulder.  Thread on VN said the patch coincided with the beta weekend preview for Aion.

This statement confuses me.  Aion beta preview weekend ended Monday and they are bi-weekly, next one isnt until July 31-Aug 3.  The 1.3.0b patch went live yesterday, how does that coincide? 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 23, 2009, 11:10:01 AM
God that ego-check stuff is an amazing code word for what went on.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on July 23, 2009, 01:29:52 PM
they may be looking over their shoulder.  Thread on VN said the patch coincided with the beta weekend preview for Aion.

This statement confuses me.  Aion beta preview weekend ended Monday and they are bi-weekly, next one isnt until July 31-Aug 3.  The 1.3.0b patch went live yesterday, how does that coincide? 


dunno, just relaying unreliable info. Sorry if dates incorrect.  Thought it was interesting for 2 reasons 1) speed of patch to Live, 2) EA earnings report next week.  I speculated they had to speed up the buzz (if only internally) of big-C change happening for the title.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: columba on July 23, 2009, 01:48:33 PM
The ego check is very revealing.  Mythic in general, and Jacobs in particular never could admit mistakes.  Even now, Jacobs blames other for his failure in WAR.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waylander on July 23, 2009, 03:16:35 PM
6 to 9 months..lol.  Aion will wipe a nice percentage of their player base...6 to 9 months from now there wont be more then 3 servers left.

The quarter after AION releases is going to have a big impact on the future of WAR.  I think the recent mergers created 10 US servers, and out of those the populations are still out of whack. I don't know about 3 servers being left, but I could certainly see them only having about 5 US servers with medium/medium populations in prime time.  Either way that has to be a disaster for that game.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on July 23, 2009, 03:18:46 PM
The ego check is very revealing.  Mythic in general, and Jacobs in particular never could admit mistakes.  Even now, Jacobs blames other for his failure in WAR.

Can blame all he wants, when you're the head guy in charge and things dont work out point fingers all you want but ideally you were the one in charge.  If someone under you F'd up, you let it slide so its still your fault.  I guess in his little world a manager isnt responsible for the work his people do(or fail to do), not that I believe for 1 minute that any of this isnt his fault


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Morfiend on July 23, 2009, 03:39:01 PM
6 to 9 months..lol.  Aion will wipe a nice percentage of their player base...6 to 9 months from now there wont be more then 3 servers left.

The quarter after AION releases is going to have a big impact on the future of WAR.  I think the recent mergers created 10 US servers, and out of those the populations are still out of whack. I don't know about 3 servers being left, but I could certainly see them only having about 5 US servers with medium/medium populations in prime time.  Either way that has to be a disaster for that game.

I was thinking the same thing. Aion really seems to be billing its self as the next "PVP" game, and at the same time trying to go for "WoW but better". I can imagine it is going to draw a lot of subs away from WAR and AOC percentage wise, and a smaller percentage, but maybe a larger number, from WoW.

I see WAR losing up to 50% of their remanning active accounts.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on July 23, 2009, 05:15:04 PM
looks like they need DBA's, gear awards borked (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/board/message?board.id=tier_4&thread.id=20580)

Quote
Greetings,
I am regretful to say that the renown gear as it was previous to today was actually the result of data corruption. The renown merchant gear you see today has been restored to what it had been previously and what it was intended to be. When we learned of the issue we desired to resolve it immediately, but the scope of correcting an issue of that size was not feasible prior to a major patch. I take no joy in conveying the removal of an object of desire, but the unfortunate reality was that the items in the form they were quite literally broke power cadence of the lower tiers.

Regarding the decision to not retroactively change the items in existence, there were a number of potential risks involved that were too significant to permit. Inevitably the owners of the items now will grow out of them and the risk of item loss to a player resulting from a mistake on our part is absolutely unacceptable. Apologies for the inconvenience, or in this specific case, the disappointment :smileysad:.

Happy hunting,
H

Haley Chivers
Character Systems & Itemization Designer
Mythic Entertainment

 

Quote
So where are the talisman slots??? Why were those removed I cant justify the loss of those what's the point of the gear? Thanks for forcing me to orvr for low drop rate medals and lng grinding of unbalanced keep takes. Please restore talisman slots to renown gear as soon as possible

Quote
Greetings,
The talisman slot missing is indeed a bug and we're in the process of putting together a fix to restore it to the new items on the merchant. When it is restored it will appear on any gear you purchased since it went missing. We hope to have this fixed on all servers in the very near future. Apologies for the inconvenience.

Happy hunting,

H
Haley Chivers
Character Systems & Itemization Designer
Mythic Entertainment


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: 01101010 on July 23, 2009, 05:34:00 PM
Quote
I am regretful to say that the renown gear as it was previous to today was actually the result of data corruption. The renown merchant gear you see today has been restored to what it had been previously and what it was intended to be.

 :uhrr: What the fuck? (this deserved to be spelled out in full)


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on July 23, 2009, 06:47:00 PM
Warhammer losing players and devs. Patches come out and nobody cares.

DAoC holding steady on players and is gaining devs. New servers planned and ex-players seem to be taking a closer look.

The game MJ abandoned is being given some new life by the company that abandoned him. Suck on that MJ you chubby bastard asshole


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on July 23, 2009, 08:08:35 PM
Suck on that MJ you chubby bastard asshole

Unnecessary. Stop taking games so seriously, it makes you look like the bigger asshole.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on July 23, 2009, 10:06:19 PM
looks like they need DBA's, gear awards borked (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/board/message?board.id=tier_4&thread.id=20580)

Quote
Regarding the decision to not retroactively change the items in existence, there were a number of potential risks involved that were too significant to permit. Inevitably the owners of the items now will grow out of them and the risk of item loss to a player resulting from a mistake on our part is absolutely unacceptable.  

So: "The items were overpowered to a stupid degree, but we aren't going to remove those overpowered items because we don't like players losing items because then they'll ragequit. We couldn't think of a system were overpowered items could be replaced by correctly balanced items automatically, or even let our CS team handle the transfers. We're sure that players will outlevel the overpowered items and the problem will solve itself."

 :oh_i_see: :oh_i_see:

Mythic: STUPID! is everywhere!

EDIT:
DAoC holding steady on players and is gaining devs. New servers planned and ex-players seem to be taking a closer look.

That's likely so a lot of Mythic people don't get fired when EA takes a close look at WAR.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: DLRiley on July 23, 2009, 10:41:14 PM
As soon as SWTOR starts getting into financial trouble, which it will, Ultima Online, DaoC and WAR are going to be on the chopping block. I'm guessing EA is less likely to let a game made by bioware tank and would rather get mythic properties off the balance sheets, even the ones that are making enough to pay the bills. Either way WAR is screwed unless it pulls 300k subs before SWTOR gets released. Its a race against time! :drill:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Triforcer on July 23, 2009, 10:48:14 PM
Is "SWROT" a typo or an annoying new meme?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: DLRiley on July 23, 2009, 11:22:11 PM
Is "SWROT" a typo or an annoying new meme?

typo for swtor.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on July 24, 2009, 12:52:28 AM
Is "SWROT" a typo or an annoying new meme?

But when SWOR comes out and sucks, we've got the name ready that will just BURN them for sucking!  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 24, 2009, 06:30:44 AM
nm.



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 24, 2009, 07:02:17 AM
nm.  posted in AC2 thread instead (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=17481.0).


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on July 24, 2009, 08:40:02 AM
6 to 9 months..lol.  Aion will wipe a nice percentage of their player base...6 to 9 months from now there wont be more then 3 servers left.

The quarter after AION releases is going to have a big impact on the future of WAR.  I think the recent mergers created 10 US servers, and out of those the populations are still out of whack. I don't know about 3 servers being left, but I could certainly see them only having about 5 US servers with medium/medium populations in prime time.  Either way that has to be a disaster for that game.

I was thinking the same thing. Aion really seems to be billing its self as the next "PVP" game, and at the same time trying to go for "WoW but better". I can imagine it is going to draw a lot of subs away from WAR and AOC percentage wise, and a smaller percentage, but maybe a larger number, from WoW.

I see WAR losing up to 50% of their remanning active accounts.

Cant agree more.  AOC and WAR which both fell on their face in the area of PvP(and WAR is a PvP game sadly) will lose a lot of those who were interested in that side of MMO's.  PvE people wont likely leave their current games other then for curiosity sake.  WOW's PvP player base will take a hit from Aion to some degree, and again some PvE fans who will be curious.  Then there are other games with PvP like EvE, Darkfall, COH, Champions, EQ2, etc etc who will all lose people who are looking for the next big PvP game.  Will Aion be a huge hit in NA?  I think it will definitely fair better then any NA MMO that has come out since WOW and will retain a larger percentage of that over the next few years


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 25, 2009, 06:41:31 PM
The State of Warhammer Online (http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=18998)

Quote
This week, at Comic Con in San Diego, CA, ZAM had the chance to sit down with James Nichols, Community Manager for Mythic Entertainment and talk about WAR.
...
ZAM: Despite the recent 1.x patches, players still seem to be facing problems with lag in large-scale sieges and ORvR battles. Producer Jeff Skalski said "There is no uber solution, just a whole bunch of little things we can do that will, in time, add up to something bigger." Why isn't there an "uber" solution?

James Nichols: The reason there really isn't an "uber" solution is that we can't really control how many players come into a battle. We can to a degree, but one of the [biggest] aspects of Warhammer is large-scale RvR. So from a technical aspect, we want to support as large a battle as possible, but there are also technical limitations to that.
...
ZAM: What about WAR's collision mechanics, which reportedly accounts for a substantial amount of the lag? Will they ever be re-coded? Or just removed?

James: Collision is important. Imagine fighting someone and [being able] to walk straight through them. That's more of a technical question for our senior programmers, but [collision] is an important and integral part of the game that's an original feature. We're going to try to do what we can to improve performance without impacting the actual gameplay.
...
James: I'd say that ORvR and PvP aren't [necessarily] for everyone, but for those people who really enjoy it, we've made a ton of improvements.
...
James: Like I said, career balance is an ongoing thing. There's definitely room for improvement in a lot of areas—we're aware of that. But we're also working on helping players to understand how their class actually is effective. One of the ways [we're] doing that is through toning down the over-burdening effects of AoE and crowd control, like I mentioned. What this really shows is that there are careers that have pretty strong single-target abilities that were kind of overshadowed, but there are other careers that do need additional adjustments, besides that. There's no real simple answer to it. We listen to the feedback, we analyze it and we see what we can do to best affect the game in the amount of time we have.

There's the constant question of, 'Why can't you do this now?' But we can't do everything now—it's impossible. We don't have the time or the manpower to do that. So what we do is look at what would be most beneficial to help the most people, without negatively impacting others. It's always hard to take power away from people; there are several classes that players think we've toned down too much—and we do look at feedback and try to analyze that. But when you're on top, it feels good to be king—you know? When you come back down, it's always hard to accept the fact that you're not as powerful as you once were. We try to avoid "flavor of the months," but in any MMO, career balance is probably the most controversial and complicated thing you can have.
...
ZAM: Obviously EA/Mythic (and players) would love to see 1 million subscribers, but what's the most realistic scenario if subscriber numbers continue dropping?

James: I'm not going to talk subscriber numbers because it's out of my realm, but Warhammer is successful; we've got a great player base.
...
ZAM: What are the next two careers we'll be seeing? Any hints?

James: As far as I'm aware, there's are no new careers on the horizon right now.

That was fairly depressing.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Rondaror on July 25, 2009, 07:36:25 PM
5 days of public testing on an across the board AOE nerf?   :ye_gods:

Somebody is smoking something fierce.

Fights are way better now, so it helped. They should smoke more of that stuff.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: nurtsi on July 26, 2009, 02:07:04 AM
I'm actually still playing my 10 day comeback thingy. They fixed the UI bugs I whined about few days ago and the game is pretty fun (or there's no alternative to it). I haven't touched PVE as I don't seem to be able to do it in any game anymore.

I'm still in T2, but there's plenty of ORVR going on. Solo-killing a single player at this point nets me around 6000 exp. Doing a scenario is about 10000 exp. So yeah, ORVR it is.

I should reach T3 during my 10 days, so will see if I rage quit after that. At the moment though, I'm considering subscription (never had one, since I just quit after the first month when the game came out).


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: March on July 26, 2009, 09:58:46 AM
Poor Guy, the Magic Wand question:

Quote
ZAM: If you could wave a magic wand, go back in time and change one or two things about WAR's development or launch period, what would they be?

James: Extra time would always be nice. More beta testing time would always [have been] great. If the proverbial "magic wand" existed and there were no such thing as budgets and schedules…absolutely. More time would probably be it.

I don't fault him for not giving a solid answer... how could he?

I wish our Game Engine (or architecture) could support the game we set out to design?
I wish we had not been forced to build a highly fragmented world because of said engine?
I wish we could have trusted our instincts that a dynamic and fluid RvR endgame is perhaps the best endgame?
I wish we had recognized that an engaging advancement system like T1/T2 should have carried forward into T3/T4... but then, see #3 above, we would have had to have built a sustainable RvR endgame.
I wish we had *either* truly made DAoC2 *or* stuck to our guns and built GuildWars Warhammer edition... doing both poorly was really doing neither?
I wish we could have told the rockstars that ran the organization that a good idea does not a genius make (hello PQ's)?
I wish we had more 5-star talent to tell us that our design and direction were wrong and less 3-star talent pedaling as fast as they could in the wrong direction?

Time was not the problem here... more time would only have increased the cost of development and thereby made the fall all the more spectacular.  The fact that a year after launch the game cannot handle large RvR, and that they are re-designing the Capital City mechanics of the pinnacle of end-game simply show that their game is a collection of animated artwork looking for a design to suit it.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: columba on July 26, 2009, 03:35:05 PM
I see he is still desparately clinging to collision detection.  Here's a hint - with your game engine and coding, collision detection should have been avoided at all costs.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on July 26, 2009, 06:14:36 PM
Well, they originally intended RvR to be scenarios and openfield BO fights. So in that case, I guess collision detection could be kind of nice. However, a large majority of beta testers demanded keeps (for good reason) in which case, collision detection would be an absolute mess.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: columba on July 26, 2009, 07:48:23 PM
Well, they originally intended RvR to be scenarios and openfield BO fights. So in that case, I guess collision detection could be kind of nice. However, a large majority of beta testers demanded keeps (for good reason) in which case, collision detection would be an absolute mess.

I agree.  Mythic should have stuck to their vision and at least offered a functioning game.  It may have attracted fewer players, but at least the game would have run properly.  To change it to open rvr so late in the game seems extremely ill-considered.  I would have imagined that a few of the developers must have been aghast, knowing that the game couldn't handle such a change.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lantyssa on July 27, 2009, 12:27:53 AM
I agree.  Mythic should have stuck to their vision and at least offered a functioning game.  It may have attracted fewer players, but at least the game would have run properly.  To change it to open rvr so late in the game seems extremely ill-considered.  I would have imagined that a few of the developers must have been aghast, knowing that the game couldn't handle such a change.
Bolded the important part.  Remember Jacobs saying if it didn't get 500k subscribers it was a failure?  Now that might not be the true break-even point, however it was clear from the begining that they did not want fewer players.  He was gunning for WoW, even if all of us knew it was a huge mistake before beta even began.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: columba on July 27, 2009, 01:24:04 AM
Indeed.  He set himself up for failure by having a business model that demanded at least 500k, with a game that wasn't strong enough to hold that many.  A great scenario based game that ran really well may have been able to hold 200k players.  Better than holding 50k players.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on July 27, 2009, 08:21:28 AM
On a fairly busy server SC's pop fairly well, but if they had made scenarios cross server so they pop much more frequently across all tiers, which in turn allowed people to level faster via PvP that alone would of been a major step up.  Leveling via RvR is slow and far less effective and not many people want to level through PvE in a PvP game. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Draegan on July 27, 2009, 04:35:40 PM
I'm trying out the 10 day for free thing because of boredom.  I got to level 6/6 or whatever.  T1 is still fun.  I'm entirely skipping the PVE content.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Morfiend on July 27, 2009, 07:33:00 PM
I'm trying out the 10 day for free thing because of boredom.  I got to level 6/6 or whatever.  T1 is still fun.  I'm entirely skipping the PVE content.

T1 has always been fun. Once you hit level 11, its all downhill from there.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Rasix on July 27, 2009, 07:35:03 PM
I'm trying out the 10 day for free thing because of boredom.  I got to level 6/6 or whatever.  T1 is still fun.  I'm entirely skipping the PVE content.

T1 has always been fun. Once you hit level 11, its all downhill from there.

You mean 12.  At 11,  you're at your maximum pwnage level for tier 1. 

Ugg, I don't think any of my characters got past level 15 or 16. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on July 27, 2009, 08:56:09 PM
Q1 earnings call coming up in the next few days. Looking forward  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Morfiend on July 27, 2009, 09:40:04 PM
I'm trying out the 10 day for free thing because of boredom.  I got to level 6/6 or whatever.  T1 is still fun.  I'm entirely skipping the PVE content.

T1 has always been fun. Once you hit level 11, its all downhill from there.

You mean 12.  At 11,  you're at your maximum pwnage level for tier 1. 

Ugg, I don't think any of my characters got past level 15 or 16. 

No, I actually meant 11. Cause level 11 is the best the game gets. So its all downhill from there.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Velorath on July 27, 2009, 10:14:42 PM
Q1 earnings call coming up in the next few days. Looking forward  :awesome_for_real:

They've got a webcast of their annual stockholders meeting on Wednesday at 2pm pst, but their actual Q1 FY 2010 results will be released on Aug. 4th after the market closes.  Of course there's a good chance they won't bother saying much about WAR at this point.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Ashamanchill on July 27, 2009, 11:04:46 PM
Ugg, I don't think any of my characters got past level 15 or 16. 

Smart characters.  They reap the win and let all the other suckers players advance to the suckage content.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 28, 2009, 05:54:11 AM
Games Workshop had a good year.

http://investor.games-workshop.com/latest_results/Results2009/downloads/GW_year_end_09.pdf

Quote
Finally, royalty income has increased from £1.7 million to £3.5 million. While we don’t rely on this income, it has made a very welcome contribution to our cash flow from operating activities, up from £10.7 million to £18.1 million. As a result we have been able to reduce our net debt from £10.1 million to £1.6 million by year end.

That obviously covers all royalties, so Dawn of War etc etc.

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssConsumerGoodsAndRetailNews/idUSBNG47846420090728

Quote
Shares up 6 pct
...
The company, which makes tabletop fantasy and futuristic battle games, posted a pretax profit of 7.5 million pounds for the year ended May 31, compared with a profit of 1.1 million pounds a year ago.

Edit, well teal is easier for me but ok.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Trippy on July 28, 2009, 05:59:38 AM
Stop using Teal to highlight your text. You are making that text harder to read, not easier.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 28, 2009, 08:01:12 AM
Goddamn, that's the first stellar year they've had in probably ten years.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Bismallah on July 28, 2009, 04:05:07 PM
GW has also had some good table top turn arounds recently too. The Space Marines new codex was a good one. Daemons for Fantasy was a pretty big hit. The new box set for 40k is a deal and a half: 5 Terminators, 1 Dreadnaught, 1 Captain, 10 man Tac squad, bunch of Orks, Ork boss, 3 Ork helicopter things, small rulebook all for 75 USD. The Terminators and the Dreadnaught by themselves cost over 75 bucks.

I dont keep up with LOTR so not sure how sales have gone with them, but I am just about 20m from the GW HQ (Glen Burnie Battle Bunker) in the US and they are still turning a pretty good profit up there. I think, and dont quote me, but pretty sure GW had a good sales year for table top with the release of Apocalypse and their reduced prices on the Battalion boxes for both Fantasy and 40k. They also put out new tank models that you can purchase outside of Forgeworld, Baneblade for one. You can purchase Valkyries in plastic too.

All in all they have made some good changes for their table top gaming, now if they can ever get to redoing the fucking Dark Eldar codex I would be happy.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 28, 2009, 04:09:20 PM
The Terminators and the Dreadnaught by themselves cost over 75 bucks.



This right here, though, is why they lost me. Even if they're cutting some decent deals here and there to get people hooked (and they are) that shit above is ridiculous. Their prices outstrip inflation and the cost of the materials several times over.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Bismallah on July 28, 2009, 05:28:37 PM
The Terminators and the Dreadnaught by themselves cost over 75 bucks.



This right here, though, is why they lost me. Even if they're cutting some decent deals here and there to get people hooked (and they are) that shit above is ridiculous. Their prices outstrip inflation and the cost of the materials several times over.

Oh I don't disagree there. Only way I buy stuff these days is Ebay and they have these things called "Bizarre Bazaars" where you can swap and trade models and sell them in the store. At retail price the models are highway robbery.

How much in royalties did they get from Warhammer Online??


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Sir T on July 28, 2009, 07:56:31 PM
Games workshop lost me on 2 phases. Phase 1 was when my friends at the time were talking about the fact that they would have to rebuild their entire Space mariene armies because workshop had put out new armour. I asked what the difference was and this said, deadly seriously "They used to have a line on their shoulder pads. Now they have 3 dots."

 :uhrr:

The second was when they redid Epic and, just to ensure you could not even use your old infantry models (about 2 mm high) they made the official base a rectangle rather than a square.

Fuck that shit. Oh and I forgot, when they decided to make the new models out of tin allow rather than lead alloy and this resulted in models that were harder to work with, but cost a lot more. Despite the fact that tin was cheaper than lead at the time.

I would still buy a few of their models to paint up, if the price of them were not stupidly expensive.

There was a tabletop game called Warzone: Mutant chronicles that was far far better than Warhammer and the models were far far cheaper, but they never bothered marketing themselves, and its almost impossible for other games companies to even reach the ears of potential customers at this point anyway.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on July 28, 2009, 08:51:49 PM
While it sounds fun, the only people that play Warhammer around where I live are 15 year old kids.  Not my cup of tea, really.  It was pretty sad when I had to leave all my buddies that played.  I don't have time for that now anyway.  Every 6 months or so I get out some models and paint them, but that is even getting more uncommon.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Modern Angel on July 28, 2009, 10:06:31 PM
While it sounds fun, the only people that play Warhammer around where I live are 15 year old kids.  Not my cup of tea, really.  It was pretty sad when I had to leave all my buddies that played. 

That was me. I still remember the last game I played. 27 years old, surrounded by 13 year olds in a shitty gaming store with some wage slave smelly fucker playing Comic Book Guy. I didn't have space to have a full sized table at my house anymore so I was forced to go to the local store. I *loathe* 99% of gaming stores. Looked at my good friend I was playing with and just shook my head as the adolescents were screaming in my ear, shook my head and promised to never do it again.

Re: Epic bases. They actually specifically said that either base size would work fine when those rules came out. They did that because the Specialist games guys have always had a more realistic view of what they're doing. It's the three main lines that get stupid.

Someone there has to know that they can't keep doing just miniatures forever. It's part of the reason why I can't see WAR folding; even odds that if EA decides to close it they offload it cheap to GW so they can run it firsthand. Same area as their US offices.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Sordid on July 28, 2009, 11:30:06 PM
I don't understand why they never did something like, say, enable collision detection only in places where it might be applicable, such as doorways and terrain bottlenecks. They can have it disable itself when no enemies are within a certain range, so clearly they can manipulate it in other ways even if their coders are 3-star workers and 5-star office party monkeys. Nobody cares about collision on a flat, featureless battlefield, yet this is exactly where it causes the most trouble. Clearly this is rendering the supposedly most prominent aspect of the entire game almost unplayable. While I no longer play WAR and would be very hesitant to ever do so again, it still baffles me how many things they did wrong and how insufficient their attempts to remedy the problems have been. I always follow the direction and development of games that I stop playing so that I can always know which games are worth returning to, but in this case, I do it just because Mythic's every action is so unbelievable as to be entertaining. It has always been surreal to me how many things they managed to do so utterly wrong with this game. If I didn't know better, I would suspect that they never meant to make it any good in the first place.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Rasix on July 29, 2009, 12:21:18 AM
You know how hard I'm going to laugh when I just delete your entire post?  I'll let it simmer for a bit.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on July 29, 2009, 12:23:44 AM
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/MonsterAnnie/12949271_m.gif)


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Sordid on July 29, 2009, 12:36:08 AM
Well, go ahead. I'm not exactly losing any major investment of time or effort. Is my post count affecting your decision? There are posts on the previous page about the exact same thing. On every single page, in fact. I guess it's not polite to pick on the folks with 1000+ posts.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Rasix on July 29, 2009, 12:42:32 AM
Most posts address other posts.  It's called a thread.   Your post count is not affecting your treatment, your post is.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Sordid on July 29, 2009, 12:54:05 AM
You have a nice day, then. Multiple posts on the previous page concern collision detection. If neglecting to quote them is grounds for post deletion, go nuts. It's your forum after all, apparently.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on July 29, 2009, 01:28:04 AM
Nah, it's *my* forum. But coming here and shitting on WAR is as passe as posting a lolcat.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on July 29, 2009, 01:34:48 AM
FAKE EDIT - my point has been consumed by the ensuing drama.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: squirrel on July 29, 2009, 02:01:29 AM
FAKE EDIT - my point has been consumed by the ensuing drama.


:popcorn:

Popcorn for the popcorn god!



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Ashamanchill on July 29, 2009, 02:54:23 AM
FAKE EDIT - my point has been consumed by the ensuing drama.

Well I hope you're all happy.  That post was going to change the world.  Or maybe just this thread, who knows.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Falwell on July 29, 2009, 04:07:49 AM
Oh so you go from nuking your post here to starting the Twilight MMO thread?

We're pretty much going to have to ask you to go play in traffic Unsub.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on July 29, 2009, 04:19:19 AM
I'd made a point to Sordid's one about collision detection - that is really the least of WAR's issues - but by the time I hit the button all the excitement had been and gone.

If I didn't start the Twilight MMO thread, someone else would have. Look at the site and gameplay ideas. It's magic. Sparkly vampire magic.

I give it a better chance than WAR of reaching 500k players.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Falwell on July 29, 2009, 04:26:08 AM
If I didn't start the Twilight MMO thread, someone else would have. Look at the site and gameplay ideas. It's magic. Sparkly vampire magic.

Oh so you're trying to make this into an "I took one for the team" situation? No one believes your lies, deceit and treachery here sir. This is the Warhammer forum and all we know is hatred, shitty one liners, and how to call Paul Barnett everything but a white man. Deservedly so of course.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on July 29, 2009, 07:57:12 AM
Twilight MMO marketed correctly might be ridiculously successful.......................and also full of pedophiles. :ye_gods:

Edit:  I really thought this was a fucking joke  :uhrr: :uhrr:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: 01101010 on July 29, 2009, 05:26:05 PM
Today is the 29th. If I read correctly, the phone conference was today. I await your results Arthur.



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 29, 2009, 06:25:38 PM
http://investor.ea.com/

Jul 29, 2009 at 2:00 PM PT
Electronic Arts 2009 Annual Meeting of Stockholders (You have to login and listen to boring stuff, too much effort)

Aug 4, 2009 at 2:00 PM PT
Electronic Arts Q1 2010 Earnings Conference Call


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Redgiant on July 30, 2009, 07:27:25 PM
FAIRFAX, Va., Jul 30, 2009 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Mythic Entertainment(TM), an Electronic Arts Inc. (NASDAQ:ERTS) studio, today announced that the critically acclaimed MMORPG, Warhammer(R) Online: Age of Reckoning(R) (WAR),is being developed for the Mac(R) ...

Also had to giggle at this (http://investor.ea.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=399739).

Maybe Mythic can make a Minax & Mondain PQ next.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Triforcer on July 30, 2009, 10:23:18 PM
I'm sure the rollout in Botswana will keep the numbers high enough this quarter.  But after the undiscovered rainforest tribes in Brazil the quarter after that they may have a problem. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on July 30, 2009, 11:04:11 PM
In gaming terms, Mac gamers ARE the barely discovered rainforest tribes of Brazil. It's a comparatively cheap reach for a limited set of new players, but dear god...

I really want to know the sub figures for WAR. I'm guessing 300k again. Or they don't mention it.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Falwell on July 31, 2009, 12:05:57 AM
I'm going to take an unpopular guess here and say their numbers will be up very slightly. 325k or so. Reason being is that this recruit a friend deal they've been running appears to have been fairly successful. On Iron Rock, you see people running around with the dogs and the griffon mounts all the time (RAF rewards for getting x amount of people to subscribe.) Not to mention that the server is flat out hopping. We had 3 Order warbands defending at Southern Garrison against a Destro force of (by two guys headcounts) roughly 140. It was fucking glorious.

Certainly this number will drop when Aion hits. But all I can do, for now, is judge by what I see and what I see on my server is a launch like population without the massive imbalance. RvR on all tiers running roughly 18 - 20 hours a day, and I'm enjoying myself.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Trippy on July 31, 2009, 12:20:01 AM
NA + Europe (not including Russia) was at 180K if the GAO numbers are to be believed. You can count the US and Europe servers and compare them to the Russian ones to get an approximate count including Russia.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: squirrel on July 31, 2009, 11:33:35 AM
In gaming terms, Mac gamers ARE the barely discovered rainforest tribes of Brazil. It's a comparatively cheap reach for a limited set of new players, but dear god...

I really want to know the sub figures for WAR. I'm guessing 300k again. Or they don't mention it.

Nah. Mac owners have long ago accepted that if you want to game on your mac you use bootcamp, at least when compared to Cider versions of the same game.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Chockonuts on August 02, 2009, 01:40:48 AM
I'm going to take an unpopular guess here and say their numbers will be up very slightly. 325k or so. Reason being is that this recruit a friend deal they've been running appears to have been fairly successful. On Iron Rock, you see people running around with the dogs and the griffon mounts all the time (RAF rewards for getting x amount of people to subscribe.) Not to mention that the server is flat out hopping. We had 3 Order warbands defending at Southern Garrison against a Destro force of (by two guys headcounts) roughly 140. It was fucking glorious.

Certainly this number will drop when Aion hits. But all I can do, for now, is judge by what I see and what I see on my server is a launch like population without the massive imbalance. RvR on all tiers running roughly 18 - 20 hours a day, and I'm enjoying myself.

Killing a couple of servers off and a quarter of Dark Crag now actively sneaking across the border under cover of night  to Iron Rock didn't hurt the population there either.  :ye_gods:

I'll stick with C.W. and say just under 200K.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on August 04, 2009, 05:06:35 PM
Don't see Warhammer mentioned at all.

EA Reports First Quarter Fiscal Year 2010 Results (http://investor.ea.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=401109)

Earnings Release (http://investor.ea.com/common/download/download.cfm?companyid=ERTS&fileid=310906&filekey=395316d3-e847-4eca-8157-47b219f3d092&filename=Q110%20EA%20ER%208.4.09%20FINAL.pdf)

Warhammer mentioned once in passing during the earnings call, nothing about subscriptions.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on August 04, 2009, 05:18:19 PM
Guess no news is bad news in this case.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: 01101010 on August 04, 2009, 07:15:44 PM
Guess no news is bad news in this case.

Or it could be WARHAMMER has turned into the mentally ill uncle no one talks to at the holiday party. He's still part of the family, but we don't speak to him or let the kids near him.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on August 04, 2009, 10:01:06 PM
I'm guessing sub figures were less than 300k.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: columba on August 05, 2009, 01:35:23 AM
I read throught the trasncript of the call.  They mentioned War, referencing their total EA company wide growth in subscriptions year over year.  They had $27 Million in subs sales from all games year ago quarter, $36 million from all subs this year'squarter, and they attributed the $9 million year to year growth to Warhammer subs.  Given $15/month or $45/quarter per sub, then I get 200 thousand subs on average.  HOwever, they ended last quarter with 300k subs.  If you straight line through a mid point of 200 thousand subs, then I concluded that end of quarter subs could be as low as 100k, no higher than 200k.  All based on rough assumptions.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on August 05, 2009, 08:07:54 AM
Well I know that people prepping for Aion are already starting to drop off.  My guild which typically has had 20-30 people online at prime time is fielding if we are lucky 10-15 last 2 weeks.  I know of at least 4 people who have not renewed and their subs end this month.  Other guilds in my alliance have similar issues and their numbers are lower as well.  My server Gorfang already has a Aion Legion made with people from Gorfang ready to move over and more join daily.  Aion will absolutely punt WHO into the < 100K numbers(I honeslty dont believe its below this yet). 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: DLRiley on August 05, 2009, 10:39:22 AM
The big fish will eat the little fish, it was all foretold in the great book that Mark Jacobs wrote right before he was fired  :grin:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waylander on August 05, 2009, 03:39:44 PM
I'm ending my sub on Sept 15th. I wanted to wait until AION was closer to release before removing all the characters from my guild except for myself. I put in a lot of work to get the guild to Rank 40 so I wanted my folks to enjoy it, but when its time to go I don't want the game randomly assigning guild leader to someone who may never return to the game.

Anyway I will be the last of the 165 accounts from my guild to exit warhammer.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: tazelbain on August 05, 2009, 04:19:02 PM
How can that be true I was just reading on Warhammer Alliance that WAR is doing fine.  While there are a few complainers trying to tear down the game to fulfill their base desires, most people are happy with game.  Hades, why did you trick your members into leaving the game?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waylander on August 05, 2009, 09:43:04 PM
How can that be true I was just reading on Warhammer Alliance that WAR is doing fine.  While there are a few complainers trying to tear down the game to fulfill their base desires, most people are happy with game.  Hades, why did you trick your members into leaving the game?

That's kinda like Bagdad Bob saying the Americans were on the run and in full retreat. We'll see what happens to War with the end of Dec results announcements, because by then most of the people who will have left for AION or other games will be off their books.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: nurtsi on August 06, 2009, 06:11:34 AM
Well, the game is doing at least "ok" on the two servers I have toons (EU).

There is the constant ORVR of T1 in the Empire (the other two T1 pairings have been dead since launch, but hey). Most of these can be trial accounts of course. T2 and T3 have usually 2-3 warbands on each side every night running around capping keeps. On these tiers, all the pairings get action.

I just got to do T4 scenarios and they keep popping all the time (I can't participate in T4 ORVR yet because I'm only R29). Based on scenarios, I'd say T4 has the most people playing (not suprising I guess, everyone has max lvl toons already except us who only came back recently).

The things that bug me now most is the class balance and the piece of shit engine. For example, WLs are "working as intended" according to the forums, but they can basically one-shot any squishy every 30 seconds. The engine is hilariously bad in handling collisions with the environment (or the world builders made some fucked up geometry). I get stuck multiple times a day on some fucking rocks, fences, or keeps. Then it tells you, type /stuck which doesn't work in combat and guess what, since you are in doing a siege you can be in combat for more than an hour straight. Sometimes when you get stuck you just die of falling damage, which is always fun as well. At least you get to respawn without re-logging.

Oh yeah, leveling is starting to feel a bit grindy at the end of T3. I haven't touched PVE with a stick, so we'll see if I make it to 40. Also, I'm having bad feelings about gear dependency at T4. I can't kill shit as a R29 (bolstered to 38) in T4. I guess it is the gear difference. Haven't had any problems before this in earlier tiers.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on August 06, 2009, 08:12:08 AM
Yeah some of the servers are busy because of the transfers that have occurred the last month.  My server is busier because of it but I still see people leaving, playing less and generally are bored of the game.  Aion is 6 weeks away and I know people are already starting to not renew subs to WHO and letting them run out.  Ironically mine expires the day after after Aion comes out :)


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on August 06, 2009, 04:49:49 PM
Aion aion aion aion aion aion, aion aion aion. Aion! aion aion aion aion!

The best part about new MMO hype is the universal letdown a month afterwards. It's like everyone forgets about all the MMOs that have come out hyped and then flopped. How many "My WoW sub is running out right when War comes out!" posts were there?

But let me guess, Aion has it all figured out  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: columba on August 06, 2009, 05:20:01 PM
Aion aion aion aion aion aion, aion aion aion. Aion! aion aion aion aion!

The best part about new MMO hype is the universal letdown a month afterwards. It's like everyone forgets about all the MMOs that have come out hyped and then flopped. How many "My WoW sub is running out right when War comes out!" posts were there?

But let me guess, Aion has it all figured out  :why_so_serious:

Hard to be worse than WAR, particularly since Aion has been out for nearly a year and has 3.5 million subs.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on August 06, 2009, 05:40:01 PM
Aion has 3.5M paying subs?

/me sighs.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waffel on August 06, 2009, 05:44:38 PM
Hard to be worse than WAR, particularly since Aion has been out for nearly a year and has 3.5 million subs.

How many subs did Lineage 2 have before it was released in America a year 7 months after it came out?

Looks like about a million. How did that game pan out in the American market?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on August 06, 2009, 05:45:37 PM
The best part about new MMO hype is the universal letdown a month afterwards. It's like everyone forgets about all the MMOs that have come out hyped and then flopped.

Well, I've certainly go my money's worth out of Warhammer simply by the entertainment value of internet discussions about it.  Warhammeralliance, et. al., are a hoot.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on August 06, 2009, 05:50:34 PM
Hard to be worse than WAR, particularly since Aion has been out for nearly a year and has 3.5 million subs.

How many subs did Lineage 2 have before it was released in America a year 7 months after it came out?

Looks like about a million. How did that game pan out in the American market?

L2 was grindy squared, no idea what Aion is like for that.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lantyssa on August 06, 2009, 06:41:27 PM
In the early levels it's reasonable.  Not quite as fast as WoW, however the speed of the first few levels won't be a stumbling block to anyone.  Actually it's probably close to T1 in WAR.

Once I knew what I was doing, my second character was 10 rather quickly, and I'm not exactly known for the speed at which I level.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on August 06, 2009, 08:08:32 PM
I got a toon to 12 barely playing beta.  Can't be too bad.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Kageru on August 06, 2009, 10:03:17 PM

It doesn't really matter. All it takes is a substantial loss and a lot of the servers will go below critical mass, which in turn reduces the morale of those hoping the game has a long term future. Even if Aion does end up being a temporary distraction the damage will already have been done.

From a warhammer point of view designing a very population dependant game with no tools to respond to changes and imbalances in population was  :uhrr:
 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Triforcer on August 06, 2009, 10:22:15 PM
I think WAR will still be around a year from now, at least in some markets.  How many NA servers are we down to again?  Around 10 or so?  Yeesh. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on August 06, 2009, 11:09:03 PM
Triforcer has a greater view of EA's mercy than I do. EA renamed The Sims Online EALand, then shut it down a month or so later. EA are so hardcore they shut down their OWN LAND. Shutting down WAR won't be a big deal to them.

It could go F2P though. That's be funny.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Triforcer on August 06, 2009, 11:12:56 PM
It could go F2P though. That's be funny.

Yeah, I think we are getting pretty close to that.  But WAR wasn't really designed as an MT game, I'm not sure what they would sell.  Ward gear?   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: columba on August 07, 2009, 12:07:09 AM
The best part about new MMO hype is the universal letdown a month afterwards. It's like everyone forgets about all the MMOs that have come out hyped and then flopped.

Well, I've certainly go my money's worth out of Warhammer simply by the entertainment value of internet discussions about it.  Warhammeralliance, et. al., are a hoot.

There are markets out there other than the American market :)


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: squirrel on August 07, 2009, 01:02:52 AM
The best part about new MMO hype is the universal letdown a month afterwards. It's like everyone forgets about all the MMOs that have come out hyped and then flopped.

Well, I've certainly go my money's worth out of Warhammer simply by the entertainment value of internet discussions about it.  Warhammeralliance, et. al., are a hoot.

There are markets out there other than the American market :)

And for WAR they've proven to be so profitable!  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on August 07, 2009, 07:50:46 AM
Leaked patch notes that went up on the EU forums and were quickly pulled for some reason
Edit:  Scratch that, official notes now

Highlights


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: 01101010 on August 07, 2009, 09:54:09 AM
Jeezus christ spoiler that 2 ton post, please.  :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on August 07, 2009, 10:25:09 AM
lol sorry, posted the notes fast cause I had to get to a meeting, anyways fixed


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Chockonuts on August 07, 2009, 12:10:45 PM
Hard to be worse than WAR, particularly since Aion has been out for nearly a year and has 3.5 million subs.

How many subs did Lineage 2 have before it was released in America a year 7 months after it came out?

Looks like about a million. How did that game pan out in the American market?
Interesting point made. But you're acting somewhat as if NCSoft has to have a huge megahit or something here in the NA market to make its cheddar back.

The flip is that AION doesn't really NEED the NA/EU subs to stay around and be successful.  If they get them to resub for a few months,  that's fantastic. That's a few hundred thou box/digital sales and some subs.  But if the gamers book out, it won't make much of a difference to their core audience which they already have established overseas. I'm sure based on their costs (rumored $100m+) that they'll easily make that back with or without NA interest.

Gamers are the only ones who'll be buttsore until The Agency, Fallen Earth, Mortal Online or whatever else half baked piece of crapturd gets released next.

AION really isn't like WAR where if you pulled away their "secondary market" (even though WAR is a european iconic IP, it's a Mythic "American made game" that was after an "American audience") , the game would fold overnight. Without GOA and that market WAR dies. Without NA/EU markets NCSoft still has millions to roll around in.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Chockonuts on August 07, 2009, 12:17:34 PM
I think WAR will still be around a year from now, at least in some markets.  How many NA servers are we down to again?  Around 10 or so?  Yeesh. 

Seven. But no one really is counting anymore.


And when you don't keep score, it's not really a game. It's just a intramural junior-high Walleyball activity.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: 01101010 on August 07, 2009, 12:25:03 PM
And lets reflect back on this post shall we:

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=14695.0

 :uhrr:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on August 07, 2009, 01:02:48 PM
AION really isn't like WAR where if you pulled away their "secondary market" (even though WAR is a european iconic IP, it's a Mythic "American made game" that was after an "American audience") , the game would fold overnight. Without GOA and that market WAR dies. Without NA/EU markets NCSoft still has millions to roll around in.

NCsoft West needs a hit game badly. It's not unthinkable for NCsoft Korea to pull out of the 'secondary' Western market (or at least stop bothering launching new titles) if they no longer feel it is profitable.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on August 07, 2009, 01:16:10 PM
What are Korean/China sub numbers at now for Aion?  Them bringing the game to Western markets is just icing on the cake if its already doing well outside NA.  How much does it cost them to make minor changes to the game to "westernize" it, new voiceovers and translate shit to English, pop open some servers and instant cha ching.  Box sales alone if they sell 500,000 units at $50 a pop thats a nice chuck of insta-profit subs not included, even more when you factor in CE sales at what $80 a box? Personally, I predict box sales to exceed 1 million within 3 months and I dont think thats unrealistic. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: 01101010 on August 07, 2009, 01:21:38 PM
How much does it cost them to make minor changes to the game to "westernize" it, new voiceovers and translate shit to English,

Not to derail things too far, but the voiceovers I believe cost them a few bags of twizzlers and 3 two-liters of Faygo... just going off the quality of the casting voices. Of course that equals millions in Korean dollars I guess.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: DLRiley on August 07, 2009, 07:16:47 PM
Hard to be worse than WAR, particularly since Aion has been out for nearly a year and has 3.5 million subs.

How many subs did Lineage 2 have before it was released in America a year 7 months after it came out?

Looks like about a million. How did that game pan out in the American market?

L2 was grindy squared, no idea what Aion is like for that.

grindy squared


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on August 07, 2009, 09:13:58 PM
grindy squared

Aion is no worse or better than Warcraft. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: DLRiley on August 09, 2009, 10:40:21 AM
grindy squared

Aion is no worse or better than Warcraft. 

That may be true, but Warcraft hasn't convinced me to spend $15 a month on it.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Threash on August 09, 2009, 01:01:36 PM
grindy squared

Aion is no worse or better than Warcraft. 

That may be true, but Warcraft hasn't convinced me to spend $15 a month on it.

Its convinced enough people though.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Simond on August 09, 2009, 03:33:05 PM
Aion has 3.5M paying subs?

/me sighs.
If I said "I told you so" it'd probably end badly for me, no?  :grin:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on August 10, 2009, 10:14:43 AM
Aion has 3.5M paying subs?

/me sighs.
If I said "I told you so" it'd probably end badly for me, no?  :grin:
I know bad taste can't be accounted for.

3.5 Million people can, and often are, wrong.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on August 15, 2009, 11:22:37 AM
Syp goes to GenCon, talks to Mythic: (http://biobreak.wordpress.com/2009/08/14/gencon-indy-part-2-the-games/)

Quote
- A common misconception is that Mythic could have improved performance by just throwing more or better servers at the game — in fact, Andy said that the servers have performed far beyond what they ever expected, but that some of the server code was less-than-ideal, which they have been working at improving (this is in regards to some of the lag of the graphics-intensive mass combat battles).

 - I asked what Mythic’s relationship is with BioWare these days, and the answer is that it’s mostly brainstorming back-and-forth between the teams.  BioWare is providing Mythic with story advice, and Mythic is giving BioWare information as to their engineering systems.

 :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: fuser on August 15, 2009, 02:17:50 PM
Syp goes to GenCon, talks to Mythic: (http://biobreak.wordpress.com/2009/08/14/gencon-indy-part-2-the-games/)

Quote
and Mythic is giving BioWare information as to their engineering systems.

 :ye_gods:

They must mean the profession engineering  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Arthur_Parker on August 15, 2009, 04:50:04 PM
Interview: Mythic On The Future of Ultima Online, Warhammer and Working with BioWare (http://www.industrygamers.com/news/interview-mythic-on-the-future-of-ultima-online-warhammer-and-working-with-bioware)

Quote
IndustryGamers: Switching gears for a little bit, I'm curious about Mythic's future plans for Warhammer Online- will there be an expansion?

Josh Drescher: Oh yeah.  It remains a priority for the studio, and we're working closely with BioWare to see where EA games logo wants to go with it.  Ray Muzyka from BioWare has a very long term plan for the future and we've had to think further into the future because of that.  Most of existence, our studio has been on a shoestring budget so we couldn't think far ahead, but we just finished up a major patch for Warhammer Online and there's a lot of stuff we're thinking about improving and enhancing the gameplay experience and guaranteeing that product lives up to the legacy of the Warhammer franchise.  You should expect an expansion in the near future.

IG: Final question, what do you see for the future of EA and Mythic?

JD:  One of the things [CEO] John Riccitiello's done is the return EA to artisan game development.  Last year was a watershed year for the company, putting out several games with Metacritic of over 80 despite the economy, and we've been proud of the progress we've made.  That means developing great new properties and engaging IPs from the past and I wouldn't be surprised to see those resurrected down the line.

As we move away from this idea of gaming alone in a dark room in your underpants, a lot of these games that are legacy products may find new avenues.  We published Orcs & Elves and it doesn't matter that its graphics are of the Wolfenstein 3D era – it's still fun.  The great part of doing this is that you can have legacy games on newer platforms.  Philosophically, we're looking to the next 20 years of gaming, considering how people are starting to play games in different ways.  MMORPGS are on the leading edge of that with new stuff month after month – I think that's ahead of the curve and we're lucky to work for EA who sees the difficulties that the magazine, TV and music industry has had in the Internet age.

Been a while since the last time anyone mentioned an expansion.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: tazelbain on August 15, 2009, 10:22:36 PM
Hmm, an expansion means almost anything these days.

I love the blaming of the economy dig.  Grade-A fucking morons.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Tannhauser on August 15, 2009, 11:11:39 PM
But, but Metacritic!


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Azazel on August 17, 2009, 05:06:14 AM
Hmm, an expansion means almost anything these days.

I love the blaming of the economy dig.  Grade-A fucking morons.

Yeah, aside from the internet connection and owning a computer, MMOs are about the cheapest time/money form of entertainment out there after the radio and TV.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on August 17, 2009, 05:43:34 AM
Hmm, an expansion means almost anything these days.

I love the blaming of the economy dig.  Grade-A fucking morons.

Yeah, aside from the internet connection and owning a computer, MMOs are about the cheapest time/money form of entertainment out there after the radio and TV.
It's cheaper than TV. Hell, four months out of the year, TV has no shows worth watching, unless you like summer/winter reruns. That and getting all the good stations costs you what multiple MMOG subs would cost.

In other words, yea, blaming the economy is just insanely stupid.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on August 17, 2009, 08:12:18 AM
The gaming industry actually does better in a damaged economy, not worse.  So does the movie industry. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Ingmar on August 17, 2009, 08:15:16 AM
I'm not sure the gaming industry really has been around long enough to draw totally firm conclusions on that front. I'd expect MMO subscriptions, for example, to stay strong in a recession, but a $60 console game just feels expensive to a lot of people, even if in reality the $-per-hour entertainment return on it is better than any other available entertainment choices.

In other words for every retarded studio that blames the economy for their shitty MMO tanking, there's probably at least a few retarded consumers who stop buying games instead of canceling their premium cable or going to the movies.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on August 17, 2009, 11:01:38 AM
You know, it is possible that the economy effected Warhammer in ways other than just the per-month-subscription issue.  For instance, if EA was doing poorly, then they might tank the entire testing staff.  Or EA might get rid of jobs that were deemed necessary by Mythic to fix problems due to the financial issues.

This doesn't excuse the shitty initial product, because they had plenty of money to develop the game, but to think the economy only effects the subscription base doesn't take into account many other factors.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on August 17, 2009, 12:13:11 PM
This doesn't excuse the shitty initial product, because they had plenty of money to develop the game, but to think the economy only effects the subscription base doesn't take into account many other factors.

You played the game.  You know why the sub numbers are terrible.  There are several MMO's that are doing just fine in this economy. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on August 17, 2009, 12:34:28 PM
This doesn't excuse the shitty initial product, because they had plenty of money to develop the game, but to think the economy only effects the subscription base doesn't take into account many other factors.

You played the game.  You know why the sub numbers are terrible.  There are several MMO's that are doing just fine in this economy. 

I get you.  They are still culpable for putting out a shitty product.  No doubt there.  Take AoC, however.  They have had some decent support and have headed in the right direction.  War does not and is not.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on August 17, 2009, 02:06:36 PM
I know what you're saying and wasn't trying to be mean.  I was really just trying to point out that we don't need to make any excuses for the failure of WAR.  It's a poorly implemented system with no hope for success without a complete gutting of the engine and a clean slate (which won't happen). 

I wanted this to be "my game" for a year or so.  I really REALLY did.  Even my 5 years of DAoC fanboism wasn't enough to keep me subscribed for more than a month. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on August 17, 2009, 02:25:39 PM
At least you weren't stupid enough to buy a 6 month sub right out of the gate like me......... :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on August 17, 2009, 03:35:04 PM
At least you weren't stupid enough to buy a 6 month sub right out of the gate like me......... :awesome_for_real:

I dont think I ever have or ever would sub that many months for a new game, I think 3 months is the most Ive done.  With the condition games have come out the last number of years its a big assumption you will be playing that long. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on August 17, 2009, 03:59:59 PM
Eh, even though I said that I was mostly kidding around.  It really isn't that huge of a deal for me to have a sub for 6 months for something I'm not playing much.  I usually have 3 or 4 MMOs I'm dinking around with on some level.  I always keep EVE going, even though I don't play a ton.  Same with WoW. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: columba on August 18, 2009, 02:02:02 AM
Online games are about the best value around these days if you do the math.  Pathetic how they will excuse mediocrity with ludicrous claims.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on August 19, 2009, 07:47:18 AM
Well last night was a good time.  After 1 week of "testing", and I use that term loosely they launched patch 1.3.1.  Nothing short of an entire night of friends and guildies crashing over and over.  Then the zones that were locked kept relocking/unlocking.  Then both Order and Destro forts in Empire pairing were both contested.  Top that off with massive lag, worse then usual(15 second delays on everything you do).  Needless to say, was in bed by 9:30.   Aion, save me


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: tazelbain on August 19, 2009, 10:28:52 AM
LOLQA


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: waylander on August 19, 2009, 10:43:51 AM
Yes that patch yesterday was a disaster.  Nothing but crashing over and over again, and more discussion about cool games coming out in the Fall.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soulflame on August 19, 2009, 11:16:34 AM
Mythic never fails to deliver.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Sir T on August 19, 2009, 01:05:09 PM
Someone should point out to people that Oblivion is a low proces these days and runs better than War. Watch the servers empty right now  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: columba on August 20, 2009, 12:47:56 AM
constant crashes, casting lag returns, skills are bugged, overall lag.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on August 20, 2009, 01:47:30 AM
constant crashes, casting lag returns, skills are bugged, overall lag.

In other words, business as usual. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Tannhauser on August 20, 2009, 06:36:54 AM
But, but, but 5 star drive!


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on August 20, 2009, 09:39:53 PM
It's five star drive straight into the brick wall of reality.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: nurtsi on August 21, 2009, 02:19:22 AM
They certainly improved the Altdor siege in this patch. Now it is basically capture the flag (3 flags) and was pretty fun last night. Of course, it is buggy as hell as usual. We had something like 5 instances running on our server and we completed the PQ in each of them from two to four times. We had something like 58 VP after that when the clock for stage 1 ran out (you need 65 VP to lock and advance to stage 2). So I don't understand how the hell you can actually get to stage 2 if winning every time is not enough.

Also the usual getting stuck into geometry that I love so much. The ending was good stuff as well, as when the timer ran out, you weren't kicked out of the instance. Instead, everytime you pressed respawn, you just got a 5 second timer and you were ressed at the exact spot where you died. This resulted in something like an episode of escape from Altdorf, trying to get away from the order camping our corpses.

Well, turns out, you can't exit the instance anyway (the incoming ramp is blocked by some rubble that prevents you going over it from the other direction). So, we decide to pop our HS/book and we find ourselves outside the instance, between the closed, unattackle door and the instance entrance. Of course, we can't get inside the instance anymore, so we're really screwed now. Logging out didn't help or neither did /stuck. So now my toon is stuck behind the door to Altdorf...


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Sheepherder on August 21, 2009, 04:17:44 AM
That sounds tragically retarded.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on August 21, 2009, 11:33:18 AM
It is odd to me that some of you are still playing this to even know what the new patch is like.  I'd rather mine rocks in EvE and run WSG than this buggy POS.

BTW, they put a timer on WSG!  Blizzard out Mythic'd Mythic yet again.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: nurtsi on August 21, 2009, 12:08:39 PM
Well, there really isn't any alternative at the moment. EVE is too serious to be played casually and everything else requires PVE. Maybe when that WoW patch hits that adds PVP exp things will change, but it still has freaking 80 levels of cathing up to do. It's much faster to reach max level in WAR.

And, in my defense, I'm on my first subscribed month. I haven't given them that much money  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on August 21, 2009, 12:10:40 PM
Im paid up until mid September so its a waiting game until Sept 22 for me.  TBH I still have fun, I wouldnt play if I didnt but thats mostly because of my guildies who are all coming to Aion with me :)


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on August 21, 2009, 12:40:47 PM
"We would like to apologize for ongoing server stability issues that have affected some of our servers since the v1.3.1 update, particularly in the last 24 hours.  While we have fixed several other issues regarding server and client stability, we are aware that there is still a issue affecting many of our players. We would like to reassure our customers that Mythic has tasked all available resources to finding and fixing this problem as quickly as possible.  There will be a status report on our efforts as an update to this post no later than 6:00 PM EDT today regarding these fixes.  We thank our community for their feedback and input on our forums as this helps us identify and correct the problem.  We also wish to thank everyone for their patience and continued support. "

Only took them 3 days to admit there was a problem and 3 days later they still ain't fixed it yet.  Might not play tonight and go sex up the wife instead


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lum on August 21, 2009, 02:31:14 PM
Only took them 3 days to admit there was a problem and 3 days later they still ain't fixed it yet.  Might not play tonight and go sex up the wife instead

It's good to see your priorities are in order, sir.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lantyssa on August 21, 2009, 02:51:03 PM
Maybe when that WoW patch hits that adds PVP exp things will change, but it still has freaking 80 levels of cathing up to do.
They've added it.  We have someone running around in the battlefield all the time because of it now.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Kail on August 21, 2009, 03:45:40 PM
Maybe when that WoW patch hits that adds PVP exp things will change, but it still has freaking 80 levels of cathing up to do.
They've added it.  We have someone running around in the battlefield all the time because of it now.

Yeah, but it's lame (15 min for about 3% XP at level 30?  No XP for killing players?  No balancing PvP to take into account the fact that level 39 characters are a wee bit stronger than level 31 characters?  Dropping you back into the world PvP flagged?).  It's why I unsubbed to WoW and resubbed to WAR.  Game may be a bit buggy in the endgame (I dunno, I only have one guy above level 30) but the progression is more fun than WoWs is to me.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: tazelbain on August 21, 2009, 03:58:32 PM
Only took them 3 days to admit there was a problem and 3 days later they still ain't fixed it yet.  Might not play tonight and go sex up the wife instead

It's good to see your priorities are in order, sir.
Ya, his wife probably prefers he plays WAR.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Hindenburg on August 21, 2009, 04:25:26 PM
Yeah, but it's lame (15 min for about 3% XP at level 30?  No XP for killing players?  No balancing PvP to take into account the fact that level 39 characters are a wee bit stronger than level 31 characters?  Dropping you back into the world PvP flagged?).  It's why I unsubbed to WoW and resubbed to WAR.  Game may be a bit buggy in the endgame (I dunno, I only have one guy above level 30) but the progression is more fun than WoWs is to me.

The xp rates are indeed a bit screwed. Running AV and the new BG gives a truckload of xp, though.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on August 21, 2009, 06:04:24 PM
Yeah, it seems the XP for PVP in WOW is pretty decent.  Too bad I'm so burned out on those BGs.  I have been enjoying them again in short doses though.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Falwell on September 07, 2009, 11:54:12 PM
More changes incoming... (http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=913)



Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Soln on September 08, 2009, 12:07:24 AM
Knockdown, Stun and Stagger


christ this game needs a fucking NGE


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: fuser on September 08, 2009, 02:14:27 AM
There's going to be a stagger bar right?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on September 08, 2009, 04:03:17 AM
Knockdown, Stun and Stagger


christ this game needs a fucking NGE

I don't think Mythic is having any problems driving away players.

EDIT: to complete my sentence.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on September 08, 2009, 08:09:24 AM
Sweet, you can be "staggered" for 12 seconds in a PvP fight, might as well go make a dam coffee if that happens. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: 01101010 on September 08, 2009, 08:22:31 AM
There's going to be a stagger bar right?

I admit, this one got my lulz. Good play sir.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Sheepherder on September 08, 2009, 09:18:01 AM
Sweet, you can be "staggered" for 12 seconds in a PvP fight, might as well go make a dam coffee if that happens.

Does Warhammer not have CC breaking trinkets/abilities?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on September 08, 2009, 09:36:36 AM
Does Warhammer not have CC breaking trinkets/abilities?

Not that I remember.  If it did, I'm sure they'd be just as useless as they are in WoW.  

If you're going to put cc in a pvp game, at least have classes with the ability to remove that cc and install an immunity timer.  Hell, DAoC learned this YEARS ago. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Megrim on September 08, 2009, 10:19:20 AM
Some. My Warrior Priest had one around 18-ish i think. I used to savour the delicious panic of the Chaos Sorcs that would pop their icecage only to have me keep on running and drop them in three hits with my warhammer.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lantyssa on September 08, 2009, 11:26:03 AM
I remember my Swordmaster having something.  Fairly long timer though, so I'd break something then get held again.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on September 08, 2009, 12:37:43 PM
Sweet, you can be "staggered" for 12 seconds in a PvP fight, might as well go make a dam coffee if that happens.

Does Warhammer not have CC breaking trinkets/abilities?

They have one that costs 5 reknown points to get, ridiculous cost. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on September 08, 2009, 01:10:10 PM
Why would you have CC in a PvP game?  Either only a few classes get it and it is irritating, or everyone gets it and it is useless.  All it does is slow the action down and make people angry.  Why bother?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on September 08, 2009, 02:35:11 PM
Why would you have CC in a PvP game?  Either only a few classes get it and it is irritating, or everyone gets it and it is useless.  All it does is slow the action down and make people angry.  Why bother?

1) It can be used strategically.  In DAoC you could mez a group forcing a demezzer to have to purge and then waste a spell to demezz.  It was also a way to give a single group a brief advantage against a larger force.  Alternatively, it was an escape tool for when you were outnumbered. 

2) It's a way to negate the ranged advantage some classes have against melee.

3) Slowing the action down is generally a good thing.  In an MMO, it generates more strategy-based combat instead of twitch.  If you want pure twitch, there are a bajillion FPS for that.  If the action is too fast in an MMO, then you're killed more quickly than you can react... which sucks.

CC has its place in PvP MMO's.  Sadly, it has yet to be implemented properly.  Armchair design discussions follow. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Kail on September 08, 2009, 03:33:26 PM
Sweet, you can be "staggered" for 12 seconds in a PvP fight, might as well go make a dam coffee if that happens. 

Stagger theoretically breaks on damage, like a WoW rogue's Sap.  With the amount of AoE flying around in this game, I don't see stagger being a problem for anyone other than healers.  I suspect it was implemented to curb the trend of kamikazeing Disciples/Warpriests into the middle of groups for their AoE stun, then mowing down the entire group with Wizards/Sorcerers.

I like the idea of concentrating CC in the tank classes, that at least sounds nice.

Re: CC breaking trinkets:
Most melee classes have a root/snare breaking ability, but I don't know of a way to counter stun.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Hayduke on September 08, 2009, 08:49:29 PM
I think PvP does need CC. Just not the abundance that WAR gives it. It's not fun being rendered helpless and going from 100%-0 in a few seconds. Nor is it fun when you're about to kill someone and your bonehead teammates decide to punt them to safety. Nobody is judicious about CC just because everyone has tons of it available. Any fight you're in you can expect to be snared even if it's a waste of a cooldown.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Kageru on September 08, 2009, 09:07:36 PM

Their logic seems valid. Short lasting stuns with any remotely long lasting CC being a mez and having diminishing returns.

The only real question is why it took this long? It's so blindingly obvious that having a long lasting AoE stun in a PvP game is going to be imbalanced and massively exploited. This should have been part of the initial design and the classes balanced accordingly.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on September 08, 2009, 10:40:23 PM
The only real question is why it took this long? It's so blindingly obvious that having a long lasting AoE stun in a PvP game is going to be imbalanced and massively exploited. This should have been part of the initial design and the classes balanced accordingly.

Have you played WoW?  It's possible to be cc'ed nonstop with only a purge available every 2 mins + racials or class abilities. 

Developers haven't learned about cc and its proper place in pvp any more than they've learned about stealth. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on September 08, 2009, 11:26:20 PM
Why would you have CC in a PvP game?  Either only a few classes get it and it is irritating, or everyone gets it and it is useless.  All it does is slow the action down and make people angry.  Why bother?

1) It can be used strategically.  In DAoC you could mez a group forcing a demezzer to have to purge and then waste a spell to demezz.  It was also a way to give a single group a brief advantage against a larger force.  Alternatively, it was an escape tool for when you were outnumbered. 

2) It's a way to negate the ranged advantage some classes have against melee.

3) Slowing the action down is generally a good thing.  In an MMO, it generates more strategy-based combat instead of twitch.  If you want pure twitch, there are a bajillion FPS for that.  If the action is too fast in an MMO, then you're killed more quickly than you can react... which sucks.

CC has its place in PvP MMO's.  Sadly, it has yet to be implemented properly.  Armchair design discussions follow. 


I get it.  All these reasons are bandied about all the time.  However, arguably the most fun in either WOW or WAR is in the lower level BGs where there is no CC.  It isn't needed for a good time, so why have it?  I hear your reasons, but that doesn't mean it is necessary.  So many games try to implement the same crap.  Why not try one without?


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Kageru on September 08, 2009, 11:29:31 PM


Quote
Have you played WoW?  It's possible to be cc'ed nonstop with only a purge available every 2 mins + racials or class abilities. 

Even if that were true it's not very relevant as a counter-argument. The fact that WoW (which is a primarily PvE game anyway) got it wrong as well doesn't make it any better here.

Though I'm pretty sure there's no AoE stuns (or mezzes) in WoW and pretty much all long duration CC (sheep, gouge, frog, fear) is interruptible by damage. Pretty much the same system they're implementing here.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on September 08, 2009, 11:59:58 PM
I get it.  All these reasons are bandied about all the time.  However, arguably the most fun in either WOW or WAR is in the lower level BGs where there is no CC.  It isn't needed for a good time, so why have it?  I hear your reasons, but that doesn't mean it is necessary.  So many games try to implement the same crap.  Why not try one without?

As I've posted for the last 4+ years on this, waterthread, and LtM before that, I think that cc should be minimal to non-existent in pvp mmo's.   You didn't ask my opinion.  You asked for justification.  I agree with you.  I'd love to see a pvp MMO with minimal cc.  I'm just not going to hold my breath waiting for it. 

Even if that were true it's not very relevant as a counter-argument. The fact that WoW (which is a primarily PvE game anyway) got it wrong as well doesn't make it any better here.

WoW is an MMO that is making money hats by being everything to all people.  Writing it off as a pve game may be fundamentally correct, but you're dismissing a HUGE gaming crowd that is quite pvp active.  Hell... just look at the number of people playing daily on WoW's pvp servers.  They account for more subs than any other PvP MMO that I can think of in the west.  

WoW has made some gains on PvP accessibility but still misses the boat when it comes to cc, balance, and world feel.  


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on September 09, 2009, 12:11:52 AM
Quote
WoW is an MMO that is making money hats by being everything to all people.

No player housing or anything like that sort of throws that comment right out the window. It supports elf-loving fruitbags, but it doesn't support real virtual worldy people at ALL.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: UnSub on September 09, 2009, 01:42:18 AM
There will be CC and stealth in PvP - and all the associated issues - because if they aren't there players complain about having them.

Fury got CC right (as far as I can remember) in that any damage broke the hold. Stealth should be broken by character movement. These things need to have tactical / strategic advantages but move away from being a huge I WIN button.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Rasix on September 09, 2009, 01:42:34 AM
Quote
WoW is an MMO that is making money hats by being everything to all people.

No player housing or anything like that sort of throws that comment right out the window. It supports elf-loving fruitbags, but it doesn't support real virtual worldy people at ALL.

Too bad both attempts at a AAA open world game turned into ass.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: schild on September 09, 2009, 02:46:02 AM
Quote
WoW is an MMO that is making money hats by being everything to all people.

No player housing or anything like that sort of throws that comment right out the window. It supports elf-loving fruitbags, but it doesn't support real virtual worldy people at ALL.

Too bad both attempts at a AAA open world game turned into ass.
Well, yea, but that's neither here nor there.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on September 09, 2009, 08:16:45 AM
Some CC isnt a horrible thing, like short snares(2-3 seconds) or maybe even a casting slowdown for only a couple seconds.  Effects like Silence for 7 seconds or disable where you cant do ANYTHING, not even move is excessive and nothing more then aggravating for every class that doesnt have it.  PvP happens very fast and effects that last 7 seconds is like a lifetime.  Once again, too bad it took WHO a year to decide to remove / change this crap. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nevermore on September 09, 2009, 09:14:17 AM
In concept I can see why CC is included in these games and I can agree with the reasons on paper.  On the other hand, the most fun I've had PvPing in an MMO (or in this case, a 'semi' MMO) was in Guild Wars where there's very little CC and no stealth.  If I remember correctly, the only CC in Guild Wars were some snares and Knockdown, which could be considered a one or two second stun.  I'm interested to see if they keep the same design philosophy in Guild Wars 2.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on September 09, 2009, 09:17:33 AM
No player housing or anything like that sort of throws that comment right out the window. It supports elf-loving fruitbags, but it doesn't support real virtual worldy people at ALL.

The comment was made in a PvE vs PvP context.  You know that WoW doesn't contain every MMO component.  I know this as well.  You're being all nit-picky and stuff. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: DLRiley on September 09, 2009, 12:01:00 PM
Quote
WoW is an MMO that is making money hats by being everything to all people.

No player housing or anything like that sort of throws that comment right out the window. It supports elf-loving fruitbags, but it doesn't support real virtual worldy people at ALL.

Player housing is up there with fun crafting system and fishing. To people who like that crap are playing UO and to a lesser extent EVE.

As far as CC is concerned CC has always been consistently designed for A. PVE and B. Large scale encounters, which means in the immediate small scale where there isn't a lag inducing number of players on the screen, CC will always suck because that's where developers primarily design it for. Same with stealth, the large scale pvp potential outstrips all the practical uses when its 5v5, making it always unbalanced if there isn't a stupid number of players on screen. DAOC will always be a horrible reference point. Where it doesn't matter when everyone in immediate line of sight range can't moved, that is inherently bad design even if that's perfectly fine and working as intended when there are 300 players on screen.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Redgiant on September 09, 2009, 04:34:12 PM
Another common problem with CC in MMOs I've played is they don't apply their use "evenly" in terms of the restricted uses they ought to be employed in, for the compensatory intent they should be for.

I'd go further and say that most CC should be limited in its application to certain opposing races/classes and not "everyone", since as soon as you allow grab bag CC you inherently have unbalanced the equations which supposedly were delicately going to apply it only to the cases they want it to be for.

Example: If you balance your game to allow, say, root on a tank to balance out the fact that he'll squish a certain kind of caster the moment he gets in range, but then other classes that aren't so squishy can also apply that CC, or classes that aren't so tanky can also be hit by the CC, it gets out of hand fast when you multiply that unintended consequences thing x50.

Truth is, the balance from one race/class to another race/class is often very specific in need, but very coarse in implementation. CC is just one of the most obvious and eggregious examples of this.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Fraeg on September 09, 2009, 08:00:49 PM
I think CC is just too damn slippery of a slope to be honest.   As others have said, I like the idea, and I *believe* I can understand from a design standpoint the intent.   But from Eq1 Zek servers through daoc, sb.exe, WoW, War etc.  I have never seen Cc not end up being one of the most frustrating aspects of pvp.  From being Mez'd by a chanter, feared by a monk, to those fuckers on frisbees in WaR it is ...

meh I am just ranting at this point.

Back to my original thought, I think CC is just too dangerous.  Any form of CC that you put in players hands will eventually morph into something that really f's with the gameplay of others.  I can see it in the pve context of course but in pvp it always is a bugger.

 :oh_i_see: hmm quite the hypocrite here I guess as my characters have ranged from Mid PAC healers,  to rogues and Witchunters.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: DLRiley on September 09, 2009, 08:50:29 PM
Its the the whole balance for pve, balance for large scale encounters, but a half a dozen guys who can't move? Who cares. I don't think Dev will stop balancing this way which will always make CC unfun. Most devs don't even think there is an intermediate sweet spot between 1v1 and 300v300. Hence its much easier to balance for 300 vs 300, mostly because it doesn't have to balanced and secondly the players aren't smart enough to notice, rage yes, but point at the problem and provide useful feedback? Hell no.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Fordel on September 09, 2009, 09:29:25 PM
In concept I can see why CC is included in these games and I can agree with the reasons on paper.  On the other hand, the most fun I've had PvPing in an MMO (or in this case, a 'semi' MMO) was in Guild Wars where there's very little CC and no stealth.  If I remember correctly, the only CC in Guild Wars were some snares and Knockdown, which could be considered a one or two second stun.  I'm interested to see if they keep the same design philosophy in Guild Wars 2.


I don't see why they would change it.

There is also some indirect CC in guildwars. Debuffs that make it so you aren't actually prevented from casting a spell, but make doing so a bad idea for the next few seconds.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: pxib on September 09, 2009, 10:11:27 PM
The key to putting CC in PvP is the "control" part. So long as the player still has a choice, they can experience that choice themselves. I'll echo the opinion that Guildwars got that just about right. A lot of its negative abilities are phrased conditionally. Assuming the afflicted players understand what's happening, they get to choose between temporary inaction and a nasty consequence. CC has either a difficult, specific use or a cooldown an order of magnitude longer than its effect.

WoW gets this right in some of the abilities of its mobs, especially raid bosses... don't cast spells at me now or they'll reflect at you, don't attack me now or you'll get a debuff, don't attack me during this spell or you'll give me a buff, run away from me during this spell (not because of a fear, but because of an uninterruptable, telegraphed AOE). In PvP, player abilities should function similarly. The CC user succeeds by anticipating an opponent's actions, the opponent succeeds by anticipating the CC.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Sheepherder on September 09, 2009, 10:51:01 PM
Not that I remember.  If it did, I'm sure they'd be just as useless as they are in WoW.

You are pretty clueless if you think that the trinkets in WoW are useless.

Protip: trinketed CC still incurs diminishing returns on the next CC applied to you.

EDIT: Or you've never trinketed out of a repentance while the paladin is waddling up to you going "Hur Hur Hurr I'm gunna make you bleed!"


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on September 10, 2009, 10:53:55 AM
Not that I remember.  If it did, I'm sure they'd be just as useless as they are in WoW.

Clueless.  Nice touch. 

Trinkets have their value, but I find them to be limited given the overabundance of cc in WoW pvp.  For 1v1 trinkets do the job IF (and only if) you watch the combat log carefully and trinket out of the correct ability.  In a 2v1 situation, you begin to see the overabundance of cc clearly.  I'm used to playing a more pvp focused game where cc either breaks immediately on damage or you're given cc immunity to that type for a period of 5x the duration of the original cc.  You could also gear resistances to minimize the effects of cc to a much greater extent than you can in WoW. 

Maybe I am clueless and just need more time in WoW pvp.  My knee-jerk reaction after playing on both a pvp and pve server is that WoW suffers the same level of cc overabundance that is found in nearly every other mmo.  A two minute trinket is some help but doesn't do enough to maintain my control of my toon over an extended fight.   This is particularly the case in BG's and WG. 

I don't know what they were thinking giving DK's that stupid pull ability.  I got sick enough of that from Magus in WAR. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Shatter on September 10, 2009, 02:32:01 PM
You would hate the Templar pull in Aion then lol


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Sheepherder on September 10, 2009, 04:45:28 PM
Clueless.  Nice touch.

I generally refrain from calling people who don't piss me off retarded.

Quote
Trinkets have their value, but I find them to be limited given the overabundance of cc in WoW pvp.  For 1v1 trinkets do the job IF (and only if) you watch the combat log carefully and trinket out of the correct ability.  In a 2v1 situation, you begin to see the overabundance of cc clearly.  I'm used to playing a more pvp focused game where cc either breaks immediately on damage or you're given cc immunity to that type for a period of 5x the duration of the original cc.  You could also gear resistances to minimize the effects of cc to a much greater extent than you can in WoW.

You're not supposed to be able to win a 2v1.  Strictly from a numbers standpoint if you are to assume all other factors are equal you should not even be able to kill another player in a 2v1, so really I can't help you there except to say you should try improving your situational awareness.  In even numbers matches you just need to be able to assess your situation fast and know the relative merits of escaping certain types of CC, because Blizzard is generally pretty good at dishing out CC equally to most classes even if it is absurdly abundant.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Fordel on September 10, 2009, 06:09:41 PM
Not that I remember.  If it did, I'm sure they'd be just as useless as they are in WoW.
Trinkets have their value, but I find them to be limited given the overabundance of cc in WoW pvp.  For 1v1 trinkets do the job IF (and only if) you watch the combat log carefully and trinket out of the correct ability.


There are debuff icons and animations that are about 1000x's easier to read and react to compared to the combat log.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Ingmar on September 10, 2009, 06:19:04 PM
The SCT is pretty good about telling you what you got hit with these days too.

That's always been my biggest problem with GW pvp - the icons are too pastel and generic and they mix buffs and debuffs together, it is really hard to tell what is going on in terms of effects on you at a given time.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on September 10, 2009, 06:19:27 PM
I generally refrain from calling people who don't piss me off retarded.

Thanks?

You're not supposed to be able to win a 2v1.  Strictly from a numbers standpoint if you are to assume all other factors are equal you should not even be able to kill another player in a 2v1, so really I can't help you there except to say you should try improving your situational awareness.  In even numbers matches you just need to be able to assess your situation fast and know the relative merits of escaping certain types of CC, because Blizzard is generally pretty good at dishing out CC equally to most classes even if it is absurdly abundant.

I've been playing pvp MMO's since there have been PvP MMO's.  I know how to pan, how to use my surroundings to my advantage, and how to manipulate LoS.  I also win 1v2 matchups on occasion in WoW on a class that I don't consider ridiculously overpowered (a hunter).  None of this has anything to do with the fact that WoW has too much cc in it for it to be a successful PvP MMO.  Apparently you think the level of cc in the game is fine.  I disagree.  Particularly in cases where someone can reapply cc in a relatively short time span with little diminishing return.  I happen to feel that CC immunity needs to be longer or the timer on the purge needs to be shorter.  Disagreeing with you neither makes me clueless nor retarded.  It just makes us differ in opinion.



EDIT: I read these forums to get away from the childish namecalling I find on other boards.  You people are all too fucking intelligent to regress to that level.   If you think I'm wrong, educate me.  I'm one of the few people here that will readily admit when I'm in error.  

  


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Ingmar on September 10, 2009, 06:32:12 PM
Re: WoW CC, I play a class in PVP (protection warrior  :drill:) that has a very large number of CC breaks, and I still get into frustrating situations from time to time. The biggest offenders are cyclone and polymorph to me, which of couse is because those are the ones I can only break with a trinket. I have an extra break for fear, I can charge/intercept out of snares, stoneform out of snare poisons, stuns typically don't last long enough for me to die due to being a giant pile of hit points, etc.

That said recent changes they're making to nerf back the CC immunity powers of beast hunters and enhance shamans says to me that the current level of CC is likely to stay the same. To me even with the moments of 'damn they got me' it doesn't feel very excessive*, but I played DAOC in the days of minute long AE mezzes while the assist train kills your group one at a time. Purge was on what, a 15 minute timer? And you couldn't get it without sinking a bunch of time into PVP without it? Good times.

*The bigger problems, to me, are how hard healers are to kill, and that the gear spiral is getting a little out of control again, especially weapon-wise.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Lantyssa on September 10, 2009, 06:50:35 PM
EDIT: I read these forums to get away from the childish namecalling I find on other boards.  You people are all too fucking intelligent to regress to that level.   If you think I'm wrong, educate me.  I'm one of the few people here that will readily admit when I'm in error.   
Yet another reason to hate WAR.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Sheepherder on September 10, 2009, 11:03:37 PM
I've been playing pvp MMO's since there have been PvP MMO's.  I know how to pan, how to use my surroundings to my advantage, and how to manipulate LoS.  I also win 1v2 matchups on occasion in WoW on a class that I don't consider ridiculously overpowered (a hunter).  None of this has anything to do with the fact that WoW has too much cc in it for it to be a successful PvP MMO.  Apparently you think the level of cc in the game is fine.  I disagree.  Particularly in cases where someone can reapply cc in a relatively short time span with little diminishing return.  I happen to feel that CC immunity needs to be longer or the timer on the purge needs to be shorter.  Disagreeing with you neither makes me clueless nor retarded.  It just makes us differ in opinion.

Hunter is actually ridiculously overpowered if you spec Survival.

I still don't see which class in particular makes you think that CC is wildly out of control.  Rogues are the most notorious, but they only have 10 seconds of stun in a fight that lasts under 20s, over half of which you can eliminate with a trinket use.  One could conceivably use blind or gouge, but those are generally not used 1v1 due to the abundance of DoT effects, many of which are applied by rogues.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Vash on September 11, 2009, 10:32:55 AM
I still don't see which class in particular makes you think that CC is wildly out of control.

His point is not that 1 class in particular is out of control or has too much CC.  The point is that every class in the game has at least 1 form of CC, most classes have multiple forms of CC depending on their spec.  Then you combine that with the fact that CC just has weak diminishing returns (half-life with a short immunity after 3 consecutive CC's of the same type) instead of full on immunities to try and keep it in check.

While this system is fine and somewhat balanced in a small scale setting (assuming people have pvp trinkets) 1v1 to maybe 4v4 or 5v5, CC can really get out of hand in any engagement with more people than that.  The smallest BG is 10v10 and even with those numbers if your the unlucky sod who multiple people decide to focus CC on it can get unfun pretty fast.  BG's are the PvP most people like (not Arenas) so in that form of PvP it's easy to see how someone can consider the CC a bit crazy and overabundant.

You don't even really get to see the full potential of how retarded CC in WoW can be these days very often (and sadly it's still better than it used to be) because damage has scaled so much better than health in WoTLK it's just easier to focus fire and burst people down instead of coordinating CC.  Not to mention half the classes in the game now have a healing debuff.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on September 11, 2009, 01:00:04 PM
I still don't see which class in particular makes you think that CC is wildly out of control.  Rogues are the most notorious, but they only have 10 seconds of stun in a fight that lasts under 20s, over half of which you can eliminate with a trinket use.  One could conceivably use blind or gouge, but those are generally not used 1v1 due to the abundance of DoT effects, many of which are applied by rogues.

Ever face a rogue during those 2 minutes when a trinket is down... or hell, any other class for that matter.  It's frustrating to face any class without a purge.  In the BG's and WG, this happens frequently enough to remind me that too many classes have an overabundance of cc (again... my opinion).

As for hunters being overpowered, that comment surprised me.  I could destroy hunters on my warrior, my mage, my shaman, and my rogue.  Matter of fact, I'd go out of my way to target them in nearly every BG.  Maybe I just have an odd playstyle.   I have to confess that most people here know more about WoW than I could ever hope to.  I just know what I like/dislike. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Ingmar on September 11, 2009, 02:29:16 PM
Survival hunters were overpowered in pvp like 3 patches ago. They're not now.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Sheepherder on September 11, 2009, 03:34:45 PM
Survival hunters were overpowered in pvp like 3 patches ago. They're not now.

So what you're saying is they can no longer burn through you in tank gear with a disc priest strapped to you? :why_so_serious:

Which is completely ignoring the stamina advantage, CC resistance, CC abilities, and trap improvements they can spec into.  That being said, I still see survival hunters going from 100% - teabag in under ten seconds.

That being said, I should stop derailing.  I'll see if I can get screenshots from my next pvp adventure and put something in WoW.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Register on September 16, 2009, 08:02:38 PM
His point is not that 1 class in particular is out of control or has too much CC.  The point is that every class in the game has at least 1 form of CC, most classes have multiple forms of CC depending on their spec.  Then you combine that with the fact that CC just has weak diminishing returns (half-life with a short immunity after 3 consecutive CC's of the same type) instead of full on immunities to try and keep it in check.

To be fair, most CCs in Wow share diminishing returns with other CCs - for example, Stuns like Hammer of Justice, Maim, Bash and kidney shot all share the same DR - 1st stun hits for full duration (reduced by talents and meta gem effects) then the 2nd goes 1/2, 3rd at 1/4 (usually 1 second or less at this point) and 4th is immune. Even different CC types share DR - e.g. sap with gouge with polymorph, fear with blind etc.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Morfiend on September 23, 2009, 01:31:31 PM
I would be really interested to see the server population numbers this weekend, now that Aion has been released.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on September 23, 2009, 01:34:52 PM
I would be really interested to see the server population numbers this weekend, now that Aion has been released.

It will be a blip and most will return to WoW in 2-3 months.  You can quote me on this if you like. 

Aion offers a new visual with a fresh server race for ambitious guilds. As soon as a few guilds blow through the content and realize that it's a less polished version of WoW, they'll go back.  Aion will be pretty much dead about the time the next WoW expansion releases anyway. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Rasix on September 23, 2009, 02:29:26 PM
I haven't heard crap about it in game. There hasn't been a single post on the server forums.  None of my friends are even trying it.

Personally, I don't see the point of DIKU MMO sidegrading (or downgrading depending on your point of view).  Playing Aion would just make me want to play WoW.  Same damn thing when I played AoC, WAR, LOTRO and EQ2.  All made me just want to play WoW again.

I think it'll be a temporary hit.  Magnitude similar to WAR or AoC launches.  Most will return for Icecrown.  But who knows, Kotaku and other places have sure been touting it's "HUEG PREORDER NUMBERS" and "OMG QUEUES".

edit: lol. I thought this was in the WoW forum based on Nebu's response.  As to WAR? Heh, I think the people left are dedicated enough not to care about new diku pvp.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Hayduke on September 23, 2009, 02:58:18 PM
I think the people who would leave WAR for Aion have already left a long time ago.  Not to say it won't have an effect, just that it won't be huge that this point.  But then I've never understood the mentality "I simply have to play a mmo no matter what it is, and I'm only playing this one till mmo X comes out."  Certainly not for a game like Aion which certainly isn't anything special.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on September 23, 2009, 03:02:08 PM
Yeah, it seems the WHA and VN boards pretty much emptied out after the last patch.  This game has a very heavy anchor attached and is sinking fast.  <6 months until it's done, I bet.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on September 23, 2009, 03:18:22 PM
edit: lol. I thought this was in the WoW forum based on Nebu's response.  As to WAR? Heh, I think the people left are dedicated enough not to care about new diku pvp.

My bad.  I blame senile dementia. 


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Morfiend on September 23, 2009, 03:25:42 PM
I would be really interested to see the server population numbers this weekend, now that Aion has been released.

It will be a blip and most will return to WoW in 2-3 months.  You can quote me on this if you like. 

I was talking about people playing WAR, not WoW. I think there is a decent sized chunk of players that refuse to play WoW, and they are currently jumping from one game to the next. Especially as Aion is billed as "the next PVP game" somewhat. I was thinking it might grab a chunk of players who are sick of WAR but refuse to go back to WoW.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Nebu on September 23, 2009, 03:30:57 PM
I was talking about people playing WAR, not WoW. I think there is a decent sized chunk of players that refuse to play WoW, and they are currently jumping from one game to the next. Especially as Aion is billed as "the next PVP game" somewhat. I was thinking it might grab a chunk of players who are sick of WAR but refuse to go back to WoW.

My bad entirely. 

On that note, how many is a "decent sized chunk"?  Considering WAR's current sub base, I'd say a chunk is about 3.   :why_so_serious:

I'm never going to make my career leap to comedy.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Morfiend on September 23, 2009, 03:37:23 PM
In regards to WoW, I do think it will be a blip. Maybe say 100-150k users will leave for Aion and probably 75% of those will be back in WoW.

As for the Chunk, I would say probably 90% of WARs user base, and about 50% of AoCs user base make up that "chunk" of players who must be subbed to a MMO at all times, and refuse to play WoW.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: ghost on September 23, 2009, 04:02:12 PM
Don't underestimate the effects of graphics.  WOWs graphics are getting a bit outdated.  I didn't used to care, but after playing AoC and some other games it does really bug me now.  So it isn't really sidestepping to Aion if it is a graphics/PvP issue.  I'm not anticipating likeing Aion at the moment, however.  Seems to lack something.......


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Sobelius on September 23, 2009, 05:40:56 PM
Don't underestimate the effects of graphics.  WOWs graphics are getting a bit outdated.  I didn't used to care, but after playing AoC and some other games it does really bug me now.  So it isn't really sidestepping to Aion if it is a graphics/PvP issue.  I'm not anticipating likeing Aion at the moment, however.  Seems to lack something.......

I'm playing it and enjoying the anime-super-fast-whizzy-shiny-same-old-gameplay thing for what it is. There is some beautiful scenery. But overall the world is a bit "plastic". Get too close to the model of the pirate ship in the Asmode starting area and you see grainy graphics (as opposed to getting on a boat in WAR where the high rez textures remain quite nice). WAR's Land of the Dead has some amazing scenery, architecture and detail, and the night/day cycle there creates some cool ambience. (if you're interested, check out some screenshots  (http://picasaweb.google.com/sbonario/WarhammerScreenshots?feat=directlink) I took when I got my new video card).

I'm sooo tempted to try out Fallen Earth just for the imagery since I played in closed beta with a much older 256 MB memory card and it seemed pretty "meh" at the time...


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: March on September 24, 2009, 10:08:09 AM
Don't underestimate the effects of graphics.  WOWs graphics are getting a bit outdated.  I didn't used to care, but after playing AoC and some other games it does really bug me now.  So it isn't really sidestepping to Aion if it is a graphics/PvP issue.  I'm not anticipating likeing Aion at the moment, however.  Seems to lack something.......

Yeah, I won't go on a limb with any predictions... but I would start from scratch to play a WoW clone simply for the graphic style upgrade... and behold, I am.  Whether the execution is tight enough to keep me playing is an open question.


Title: Re: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers
Post by: Venkman on September 28, 2009, 10:08:57 AM
Personally, I don't see the point of DIKU MMO sidegrading (or downgrading depending on your point of view).  Playing Aion would just make me want to play WoW.  Same damn thing when I played AoC, WAR, LOTRO and EQ2.  All made me just want to play WoW again.

Valid, and normally that's how it goes. But there's only so many times you can alt up in WoW. When you're at the endgame, can't play that endgame, and alt'ing up just means more characters at that endgame you can't play, time to see if the promise of DX10, more-integrated PvP, /music, personal quests, or flying can scratch the diku itch as effectively.