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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Warhammer Online (Moderator: tazelbain)  |  Topic: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers  (Read 239298 times)
Modern Angel
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Posts: 3553


Reply #420 on: July 10, 2009, 07:28:49 PM

I dig. That's just awfully low. Unbelievably low.

If it IS true, that's a singular, historical MMO failure. Nothing would compare. Nothing. To go from one of the golden, surefire license in the hands of a reputable company with a big budget and EA advertising to less subs than AO or Vanguard is... I mean that's serious business there. That would also mean I expect the plug to be pulled any time.
Montague
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Reply #421 on: July 10, 2009, 07:40:55 PM

Pretty astounding but I wouldn't bet against it. WHA forums are full of "I quit" posts and Aion threads.

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ghost
The Dentist
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Reply #422 on: July 10, 2009, 07:48:19 PM

This news is oddly fulfilling.
Modern Angel
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Reply #423 on: July 10, 2009, 07:54:06 PM

It just pisses me off all over again. The base idea is FUN. The license... Jesus wept, the fucking license. HOW CAN YOU FUCK THIS UP YOU PHILISTINES?
ghost
The Dentist
Posts: 10609


Reply #424 on: July 10, 2009, 08:07:18 PM

It just pisses me off all over again. The base idea is FUN. The license... Jesus wept, the fucking license. HOW CAN YOU FUCK THIS UP YOU PHILISTINES?

I'm not sure what the number of active warhammer tabletop players is, but I can guarantee you that they are below that number now.  Seriously, how do you fuck up this license?  If you just make the tabletop people interested you get 50K subs.  Well, in retrospect, probably 50K of those 80 in Europe are the crazy Brit Warhammer players.
March
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Reply #425 on: July 10, 2009, 08:09:22 PM

I dig. That's just awfully low. Unbelievably low.

If it IS true, that's a singular, historical MMO failure. Nothing would compare. Nothing. To go from one of the golden, surefire license in the hands of a reputable company with a big budget and EA advertising to less subs than AO or Vanguard is... I mean that's serious business there. That would also mean I expect the plug to be pulled any time.

I can't believe it is 15k and not 150k... that's so shockingly low that heads would roll... like top-dog heads.  Oh wait.
ghost
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Reply #426 on: July 10, 2009, 08:11:17 PM

This is like fucking up the Star Wars license, which I thought only Lucas could do effectively.
Soln
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the opportunity for evil is just delicious


Reply #427 on: July 10, 2009, 08:19:19 PM

SWG?  there is a precedent for ruining a franchise
Modern Angel
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Reply #428 on: July 10, 2009, 08:35:30 PM

That was still a slow burn. Nothing like 1mil subs (give or take) to less than 100k total and 15k in NA in nine months.
Hindenburg
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Itto


Reply #429 on: July 10, 2009, 10:03:18 PM

I'd call losing seven hundred thousand customers in less than a year anything but a slow burn.

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Modern Angel
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Reply #430 on: July 10, 2009, 10:05:57 PM

I meant SWG was more of a slow burn. Unless it wasn't. I avoided the game like the plague so I have no idea of firm numbers from their peak to decline. Was it 700k lost in a year?
amiable
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Reply #431 on: July 10, 2009, 10:11:51 PM

That was still a slow burn. Nothing like 1mil subs (give or take) to less than 100k total and 15k in NA in nine months.

it would be interesting if they ever released numbers to chart subscription data against their "improvements" (hey let's make everyone grind for gear in PvE, I know we will gate everything with insane rep grinds, leveling is too slow let's add a whole 5% experience boost!,  hey people are leveling too fast lets cut xp gain in half when we go live!) 
schild
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WWW
Reply #432 on: July 10, 2009, 10:17:28 PM

Quote
Job losses are expected to hit in September, so I guess it might be a while before anyone confirms it

Might as well go ahead and confirm it for you.

Ahem.

Confirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrmed.
amiable
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Posts: 1980


Reply #433 on: July 10, 2009, 10:21:45 PM

Wow.  Didn't Tabula Rasa have more subscribers when they pulled the plug?  What does it say about you when your game fails harder than a legendary nightmare of a game developed by a man who could well be clinically insane?
Soln
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the opportunity for evil is just delicious


Reply #434 on: July 10, 2009, 10:28:39 PM

schild
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WWW
Reply #435 on: July 10, 2009, 10:29:22 PM

Every fucking time. awesome, for real
Soln
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the opportunity for evil is just delicious


Reply #436 on: July 10, 2009, 10:30:27 PM

Hey.  At least now you can reasonably claim, "I told you so" with no second guessing.
Ingmar
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Reply #437 on: July 10, 2009, 10:36:51 PM

I spent like 15 minutes trying to come up with a Paul Barnett/sunglasses thing for that picture and nothing quite clicked.  Ohhhhh, I see.

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Sjofn
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Reply #438 on: July 10, 2009, 10:44:07 PM

Every fucking time. awesome, for real

For real, and I don't even know the show at all.

God Save the Horn Players
Soln
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the opportunity for evil is just delicious


Reply #439 on: July 10, 2009, 10:47:42 PM

Garthilk on suicide watch? 
Lantyssa
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Reply #440 on: July 10, 2009, 10:50:17 PM

On the one hand I feel really bad the for low level people.  On the other it is somehow satisfying.

It would explain the Bioware/Mythic thing though.  What are the chances of the worthless people being left behind while the actual workers move over?

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Sir T
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Reply #441 on: July 10, 2009, 11:03:56 PM

Wow.  Didn't Tabula Rasa have more subscribers when they pulled the plug?  What does it say about you when your game fails harder than a legendary nightmare of a game developed by a man who could well be clinically insane?

TR had their players spread over only 4 servers too. Less overhead and more population density.

Frankly if they ditched a lot of their insane ideas. did a smoothing out patch and just cut the game to 6 servers and let it rot it could probably keep going indefinably. The PVP in the game is really really fun, at least at lower levels. That's what I cant get my head around.

I cant see it bieng as low as 15K US people though. I'd believe 150K, but 15K would be having the graph turning into a cliff.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 11:08:35 PM by Sir T »

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
Modern Angel
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Reply #442 on: July 10, 2009, 11:06:56 PM

Confirmed layoffs or confirmed 15k subs in the US? And confirmed in what sense? A named source? Reputable anonymous source?

I don't mean to be too incredulous... well, okay, I guess I do. It's just 15k... holy fuck. That's just crazy. Biggest failure in MMO history.
waffel
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Reply #443 on: July 10, 2009, 11:55:48 PM

Ok, after thinking about it for awhile... Maybe the guy meant that War in the US has 15k PEAK subs logged in at the same time? Maybe?
ghost
The Dentist
Posts: 10609


Reply #444 on: July 11, 2009, 12:06:12 AM

Ok, after thinking about it for awhile... Maybe the guy meant that War in the US has 15k PEAK subs logged in at the same time? Maybe?

No
Rasix
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Reply #445 on: July 11, 2009, 01:44:48 AM

Ok, after thinking about it for awhile... Maybe the guy meant that War in the US has 15k PEAK subs logged in at the same time? Maybe?

That's 1250 per realm peak?  I thought some were ghost towns and the most populous would be possibly hitting 1200 max at peak.  Of course, this is all based on what I've heard, not any official numbers.

Let's say 20% of your population max is logged on at any time (I remember this figure from MUDs/EQ days. When EQ hit 100k peak online, they were hovering at around 500-550k subs): that'd put subs at around 75K.  Still a terrible, ritual suicide inducing number, just not as jaw dropping as 15k.

-Rasix
Tarami
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Reply #446 on: July 11, 2009, 02:15:05 AM

Ok, after thinking about it for awhile... Maybe the guy meant that War in the US has 15k PEAK subs logged in at the same time? Maybe?

That's 1250 per realm peak?  I thought some were ghost towns and the most populous would be possibly hitting 1200 max at peak.  Of course, this is all based on what I've heard, not any official numbers.

Let's say 20% of your population max is logged on at any time (I remember this figure from MUDs/EQ days. When EQ hit 100k peak online, they were hovering at around 500-550k subs): that'd put subs at around 75K.  Still a terrible, ritual suicide inducing number, just not as jaw dropping as 15k.
Thing is that they quote both US and EU numbers and it doesn't make sense to quote them by different metrics. 80K concurrent EU players would mean 400K subs according to the same math, and we know that's not the case just from looking at server count (EU has 13 servers, which would mean 30K subs per server, and a concurrency number of 6000!)

Regardless, I think Schild confirmed the numbers (unless he just confirmed the layoffs.)

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Lum
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Hellfire Games


Reply #447 on: July 11, 2009, 05:58:24 AM

I heard about the layoffs too (it's hard to lay off people and keep it quiet, since, you know, the people were laid off and looking for work and stuff).

As for the subscription numbers... uh, everyone I've asked has said "omg no way". Then again below management level, no one really KNOWS the subscription numbers. So it's kind of impossible to confirm (since anyone in a position to know would never leak it).

Best bet for getting more info would probably be when quarterly reports are filed. (FWIW I'd believe 75k over 15k.)
« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 06:01:57 AM by Lum »
Velorath
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Reply #448 on: July 11, 2009, 06:57:51 AM

Best bet for getting more info would probably be when quarterly reports are filed.

Which if I'm not mistaken should be near the beginning of August.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #449 on: July 11, 2009, 07:35:49 AM

I heard about the layoffs too (it's hard to lay off people and keep it quiet, since, you know, the people were laid off and looking for work and stuff).

As for the subscription numbers... uh, everyone I've asked has said "omg no way". Then again below management level, no one really KNOWS the subscription numbers. So it's kind of impossible to confirm (since anyone in a position to know would never leak it).

Best bet for getting more info would probably be when quarterly reports are filed. (FWIW I'd believe 75k over 15k.)

My understanding is that everyone at the mass GOA Dublin meeting was told the subscription numbers.

I think the next EA quarterly report is going to be interesting, either they report subscriptions accurately (~100k + Russia) or they go back to "current accounts" so they can bump the numbers with trial accounts and the first few days of the Taiwan launch (June 25th launch, quarter ended June 30th).  I also think it's worth remembering that GOA pulled the whole turn all subscriptions into recurring billing thing, a few weeks after launch, so you would expect European subs to be higher than the US.
Modern Angel
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Reply #450 on: July 11, 2009, 08:57:10 AM

I don't get why you would give out that sort of information to likely disgruntled people on their way out the door.
Lantyssa
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Reply #451 on: July 11, 2009, 09:23:55 AM

Let's say 20% of your population max is logged on at any time (I remember this figure from MUDs/EQ days. When EQ hit 100k peak online, they were hovering at around 500-550k subs): that'd put subs at around 75K.  Still a terrible, ritual suicide inducing number, just not as jaw dropping as 15k.
Given the state of the game, the expected model likely will not give accurate results.

More likely, the only people left are the most hard-core, "I LOVE this game!!!" types.  They're likely more dedicated to being on when they can, which would skew the concurancy:account ratio to a much higher degree than a game with a draw from several quarters.

I'm not sure why people find the numbers so hard to believe.  A good deal of us have played it, some have tried to go back and quickly regretted it, and it's almost unanimous that it just isn't fun.  It's a PvP game where  PvP isn't the focus.  Of course it has no subs.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Modern Angel
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Reply #452 on: July 11, 2009, 09:56:25 AM

When Auto Assault had 15k subs, that was believable because they never had more than 75k or so at max. To go from 1mil to 100k... some of this is me being incredulous because it really is a huge drop, some of it is me being Devil's Advocate. And presuming it went from 400k to 15k in NA... equally just too much. They probably get 2-3k a month just from people coming back or picking it up unawares of the bomb it is.
Lantyssa
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Reply #453 on: July 11, 2009, 10:31:44 AM

Games cannot get away with being shoddy any more.  There are more and better alternatives around now.  We've been saying that for a while.  We just underestimated how true it was.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #454 on: July 11, 2009, 11:06:18 AM

I don't get why you would give out that sort of information to likely disgruntled people on their way out the door.

The subscriptions numbers are the reason for job losses and quoted immediately beforehand, it's very unusual as GOA, apparently, normally keep the subscription figures secret.  But in the context of explaining to a packed audience of staff why over 50% of them are shortly due to be out of work, I can understand why you would do it.  The contrast with Mythic is striking, after their earlier batch of job losses, there was a press release saying it was all planned and part of normal operations.

That's as much as I know.  If someone was at the mass GOA meeting and says the top brass didn't quote exact subscription numbers for US & EU, that would conflict with what I was told.
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