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Author Topic: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers  (Read 231470 times)
UnSub
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Reply #455 on: July 11, 2009, 12:30:57 PM

You could try to work it back from the 300k figure they announced last.

If Europe is 80k, that leaves 220k. Let's say Russia is at least 100k. That leaves everywhere else with 120k. If the US really is 15k, where are the other 105k located?

Nebu
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Reply #456 on: July 11, 2009, 12:39:13 PM

You could try to work it back from the 300k figure they announced last.

If Europe is 80k, that leaves 220k. Let's say Russia is at least 100k. That leaves everywhere else with 120k. If the US really is 15k, where are the other 105k located?

Perhaps they got smart and quit since the last announcement. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #457 on: July 11, 2009, 04:59:25 PM

The under 15k number for US is wrong, there was a mix up as it was being compared to the EU figure.  US figure is just under 15k more than the EU figure.  So Europe has ~ 83k & US is ~ 97k, so combined total is 180k (excluding Russia).  Sorry, honest mistake.
ghost
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Reply #458 on: July 11, 2009, 05:24:49 PM

The under 15k number for US is wrong, there was a mix up as it was being compared to the EU figure.  US figure is just under 15k more than the EU figure.  So Europe has ~ 83k & US is ~ 97k, so combined total is 180k (excluding Russia).  Sorry, honest mistake.

Still is very, very low for the US either way you slice it.
Lum
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Reply #459 on: July 12, 2009, 03:11:28 AM

Actually it surprises me that EU has less subs than the US. I always thought it had done stronger there since its launch (just on the strength of the license if nothing else).

100K users can fund a studio. Of course, there's the matter of making production costs and Games Workshop licensing fees, but given that the US studio has already had pretty severe layoffs they should be sustainable if they can keep/build on those numbers.

At 15K users you have to start asking yourself if it's paying for the 1 server you have left.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 03:16:40 AM by Lum »
Feverdream
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Reply #460 on: July 12, 2009, 09:08:12 AM

I had expected it to do better in Europe as well -- there are legions of Warhammer fans there.  In the time leading up to WAR's release I had some great conversations with people that had never played any MMO before but who were looking forward to WAR.

Some of them told me later that the combination of problems with GOA on top of all of the issues with Warhammer itself resulted in a mass exodus.  None of those folks sound likely to return under any circumstances, either because they refuse to deal with GOA or because they refuse to deal with Mythic again.  Double whammy.
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Reply #461 on: July 13, 2009, 04:02:02 AM

Yeah, I'm surprised EU isn't more than the US as well.  As for funding, I'm interested to see if EA commits to a paid expansion.  If they don't, then all the new regions they open in don't matter because the end is inevitable
Shatter
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Reply #462 on: July 13, 2009, 09:02:10 AM

Let's say 20% of your population max is logged on at any time (I remember this figure from MUDs/EQ days. When EQ hit 100k peak online, they were hovering at around 500-550k subs): that'd put subs at around 75K.  Still a terrible, ritual suicide inducing number, just not as jaw dropping as 15k.
Given the state of the game, the expected model likely will not give accurate results.

More likely, the only people left are the most hard-core, "I LOVE this game!!!" types.  They're likely more dedicated to being on when they can, which would skew the concurancy:account ratio to a much higher degree than a game with a draw from several quarters.

I'm not sure why people find the numbers so hard to believe.  A good deal of us have played it, some have tried to go back and quickly regretted it, and it's almost unanimous that it just isn't fun.  It's a PvP game where  PvP isn't the focus.  Of course it has no subs.

I still play but I fall into the "still play but waiting for Aion category".  I just cant be bothered to either go start an MMO I havent played before or go back to an old one.  I can say that over just the last 2 months or so my guild is losing more then we gain and our nightime login numbers are continually going down.  We used to be a 30 person a night guild but lately are lucky to have half that most nights.  Out of the number of active people I play with the total percentage of my guild planning to move to Aion now is about 40% of my guild and over the next 2 months that will go up Im sure.  Aion will absolutley tank WHO, and rightfully so.  I expect WHO to have only 2 NA servers up by Xmas. 
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #463 on: July 13, 2009, 09:43:19 AM

I missed this from the 10th.

http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=854

Quote
we are expecting to resolve our long term population issues on our lower population servers and see high populations regularly as part and parcel of server merges that are currently in discussion.
Nebu
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Reply #464 on: July 13, 2009, 09:52:09 AM

That grab bag is a sad reminder of just how out of touch Mythic is with its playerbase. 

- No we won't change the Zealot/RP mastery trees. 

- We're still working on the AE problem. 

- Rather than eliminating cc from some classes, we're going to give added immunity and extra abilities to counter it.  CC needs to be limited in use such that it can be a strategic component of a fight.  It's just a spam button in WAR.  If it's up, you use it.  This is very poor design.  Make it strategic or eliminate it. 

Hopeless.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Shatter
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Reply #465 on: July 13, 2009, 10:46:44 AM

They love to slap bandaids on gaping wounds

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Reply #466 on: July 13, 2009, 11:15:29 AM

Yeah, I'm surprised EU isn't more than the US as well.  As for funding, I'm interested to see if EA commits to a paid expansion.  If they don't, then all the new regions they open in don't matter because the end is inevitable

The US numbers aren't just US though, they include Canada and Australia for whatever it's worth.
Shatter
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Reply #467 on: July 13, 2009, 12:29:29 PM

http://www.warherald.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=859

Greetings!

Another round of our Free Character Transfers starts tomorrow! Players of the following servers will be able to login to the Mythic Account Center and begin transfer of their characters starting tomorrow, July 14th 2009. Please be sure to read all instructions carefully! There are cases where you may lose items if you do not properly prepare your character for transfer. This also applies to the Guild Transfer functionality.


Source Servers    To    Destination Servers
                               

Ironfist                           Gorfang

Vortex                            Volkmar
Monolith     

Magnus                          Badlands
Skull Throne     

Server Population Bonuses - All Servers!

To help welcome players to their new homes and make the transfers easier for everyone, players on all servers will receive an extra 20% experience and renown for limited time!

Enjoy your new homes…WAAAGH!!!
Nebu
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Reply #468 on: July 13, 2009, 12:34:16 PM

I removed WAR from my harddrive after resubbing twice.  Until they do a class balance overhaul and eliminate most of the cc, I advise people to avoid WAR like the plague. 

Now I need someone to talk me out of going back to DAoC.  Playing the Aion Beta until I make up my mind. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Threash
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Reply #469 on: July 13, 2009, 12:35:36 PM

Haha lovely, my order server is being transfered into my destro server.

I am the .00000001428%
waylander
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Reply #470 on: July 13, 2009, 12:45:14 PM

It doesn't matter what they do at this point.

T4 is horribly broken, and the people they are losing are entire guilds as well as smaller groups of players in the level 40 range.  Patch 1.3 simply introduced more RVE, and prior to that the RVR token system created a population limit per zone issue that screwed over organized PVP.

Until they re-design T4 and fix the CC and class imbalances now, they will just merge servers to see them slowly die off every 3 months.  Not to mention there is some hack I recently read about called Warbuddy that people claim will let you do all sorts of weird things.

I am not proclaiming the doom of Warhammer, but I do feel that it will be consigned to the niche mmo gaming market because of Mythic's failure to listen and failure to do anything about the core issues that make the game broken.  Land of the Dead didn't need to come before a T4 revamp, and RVR tokens shouldn't have come before they figured out how to redesign fortress fights.

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Reply #471 on: July 13, 2009, 12:46:55 PM

We should have started a bracket for servers in a similar fashion as the NCAA tourney. First server I rolled on was Gorfang and the second was Badlands. Interesting they are still there. While I quit playing back in December, I can't help but feel like my server is winning out - hell it is more fun than actually playing the game.

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Nebu
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Reply #472 on: July 13, 2009, 12:47:54 PM

It doesn't matter what they do at this point.

T4 is horribly broken, and the people they are losing are entire guilds as well as smaller groups of players in the level 40 range.  Patch 1.3 simply introduced more RVE, and prior to that the RVR token system created a population limit per zone issue that screwed over organized PVP.

Until they re-design T4 and fix the CC and class imbalances now, they will just merge servers to see them slowly die off every 3 months.  Not to mention there is some hack I recently read about called Warbuddy that people claim will let you do all sorts of weird things.

I am not proclaiming the doom of Warhammer, but I do feel that it will be consigned to the niche mmo gaming market because of Mythic's failure to listen and failure to do anything about the core issues that make the game broken.  Land of the Dead didn't need to come before a T4 revamp, and RVR tokens shouldn't have come before they figured out how to redesign fortress fights.

I agree with you completely.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Nevermore
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Reply #473 on: July 13, 2009, 12:57:40 PM

I removed WAR from my harddrive after resubbing twice.  Until they do a class balance overhaul and eliminate most of the cc, I advise people to avoid WAR like the plague. 

Now I need someone to talk me out of going back to DAoC.  Playing the Aion Beta until I make up my mind. 

Wait, you don't like the CC in WAR so you're considering going back to DAoC?  Head scratch  Did they actually make the CC in WAR worse than it was in DAoC?  The game that opened with Stungard and has (had?) minute long mezzes?

Over and out.
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Reply #474 on: July 13, 2009, 12:58:53 PM

Token system is completely broken.  As a RR72 Witch Hunter if I want to get Walord gear I have to kill higher rank enemy players, and guess how many there are? Even when u do kill one they drop a token maybe 1 our of 20 kills, then you have to roll against 5 other people in your group for it and ususally the RR35 person wins who cant use it anyhow.  So since the token system and I play daily, I have a total of...wait for it...0 tokens!
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Reply #475 on: July 13, 2009, 01:03:07 PM

I removed WAR from my harddrive after resubbing twice.  Until they do a class balance overhaul and eliminate most of the cc, I advise people to avoid WAR like the plague.  

Now I need someone to talk me out of going back to DAoC.  Playing the Aion Beta until I make up my mind.  

How is playing some derivative DIKU going to convince you not to go back to DAOC? Are you hoping to just burn out or something?  

Play some console and/or non-MMO PC games or I'm taking away your gamer card.

I seriously do not get the compulsion to be playing a MMO at all times.  I understand even less the PVPer compulsion to play any shit game that comes along as long as it has glorious PVP.  awesome, for real
« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 01:05:37 PM by Rasix »

-Rasix
Nebu
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Reply #476 on: July 13, 2009, 01:13:19 PM

Play some console and/or non-MMO PC games or I'm taking away your gamer card.

I've actually been playing my PS2 a bit and am considering moving on to a ps3.  My big problem is that I get bored with single player games very quickly.  I'm not sure why it is.  Perhaps I played them to death in my younger years and find most newer titles to be more of the same with prettier graphics. 

I want new gameplay experiences.  I'm not really concerned with visual glitz. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Rasix
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Reply #477 on: July 13, 2009, 01:32:11 PM

Play some console and/or non-MMO PC games or I'm taking away your gamer card.

I've actually been playing my PS2 a bit and am considering moving on to a ps3.  My big problem is that I get bored with single player games very quickly.  I'm not sure why it is.  Perhaps I played them to death in my younger years and find most newer titles to be more of the same with prettier graphics. 

Knowing how old you are appoximately, I doubt that's the case.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly? 



-Rasix
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Reply #478 on: July 13, 2009, 03:32:50 PM

I'm with Nevermore, if the CC in WAR was too much I have no idea why you'd ever go back to DAOC where it was much, much worse.

Those new subscriber numbers, while surely in  ACK! territory for Mythic/EA, are much more realistic sounding.

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Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
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Reply #479 on: July 13, 2009, 03:56:34 PM

I'm with Nevermore, if the CC in WAR was too much I have no idea why you'd ever go back to DAOC where it was much, much worse.

CC in DAoC was not worse, it was different.  CC was strategic in use, was not on every class, and was mostly broken on damage.  I find the implementation of CC in DAoC much more palatable than i twas in WAR, particularly as far as playing a stealth or melee class was concerned.  Once you get purge 3 and solid resists in your template, cc in DAoC is little more than a temporary annoyance. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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Reply #480 on: July 13, 2009, 04:02:39 PM


I seriously do not get the compulsion to be playing a MMO at all times.  I understand even less the PVPer compulsion to play any shit game that comes along as long as it has glorious PVP.  awesome, for real

Christ, I know. I don't get it. I just unsubbed from WoW and LOTRO since I only play to do some light raiding and with a baby coming real soon that's not going to be feasible. So it's Blood Bowl with a side of Paradox games for me.

You don't NEED to give these people money. And the PvPer obsession with buying any vomited up piece of shit that's backed by a marketing team saying the right thing is flabbergasting to me.
acelerion
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Reply #481 on: July 13, 2009, 04:15:32 PM

I removed WAR from my harddrive after resubbing twice.  Until they do a class balance overhaul and eliminate most of the cc, I advise people to avoid WAR like the plague. 

Now I need someone to talk me out of going back to DAoC.  Playing the Aion Beta until I make up my mind. 

Wait, you don't like the CC in WAR so you're considering going back to DAoC?  Head scratch  Did they actually make the CC in WAR worse than it was in DAoC?  The game that opened with Stungard and has (had?) minute long mezzes?


As someone who played daoc at the highest competitive level (mostly before and right after toa release), yeah it was worse. In 2 ways.

1. Very little of it was useful to me outside of even numbered fights (talking about war cc). Everything has cool downs and only effects a single target or my immediate vicinity. Neither case is useful for zerg busting.

2. Everyone had some form of it and there were no counters. This basically leaves you at the mercy of large numbers of people. If someone wanted to cc you they were going to do it and you couldent do shit about it. Also, no immunities


daoc was different in a number of ways. First, there were counters. Tons of them. You just had to rely on other people for it in most cases. This was frustrating for casuals, because the people youre playing with either dont know or dont care to un cc you.

Second, all cc that was worth a damn was given to a few classes. Other classes had special semi-cc like nearsight or disease (speed reduction) or they had regular cc with reduced potency. If you are having trouble being ccd you could actually kill the person(s) doing it and not have to worry about it for a minute.

Basically, if you knew what you were doing, you didnt stand around ccd for very long. In fact, in fights between good groups, whoever got mez off first hardely ever determined who won. It was just a breif advantage. Things like nearsight and casting interupts played a much larger role than mez or root.

I would say I spent more time dealing with cc in war than I ever did in daoc
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Reply #482 on: July 13, 2009, 04:45:28 PM

I'm with Nevermore, if the CC in WAR was too much I have no idea why you'd ever go back to DAOC where it was much, much worse.
cc in DAoC is little more than a temporary annoyance.

Our DAOC experiences were very, very, very different. DAOC had the most prevalent (in terms of actual presence in pvp - it might not have been on every class, but there was always tons of it around in practice), longest duration, least mitigatable CC of any game I've ever played. I played a hybrid, so I didn't get most of the toys that 'real' melee classes got to mitigate/remove that stuff. I can't tell you how many fights I spent mezzed for 30+ seconds while the assist train killed the important targets.

Remember you would have to grind your way through several realm ranks of not having the points to spend on that stuff - and not being able to buy the actual fun realm abilities for your class besides.

Maybe they've fixed it in the intervening years, I quit right around when Catacombs came out.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Nevermore
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Reply #483 on: July 13, 2009, 04:47:34 PM

It sounds like Mythic learned nothing from PvP 1.0.  All those counters you listed didn't exist in early DAoC PvP.  Resists didn't lower mez, no immunity timer after getting hit with CC, no purge or de-mezzes.  It sounds like WAR just reset back to early DAoC, took out just the AoE mezzes and gave one to everyone.  It's like Mythic learned as much about PvP from early DAoC as they did about PvE from ToA.  awesome, for real

Edit: and as Ingmar says, some of those counters only did so much.  Getting 50% Body resist to chop a Sorc mez in half sounds great on paper, until you remember that the base duration was 72 seconds.  Also, if you played Hib then your Druid had that Mass Purge easy button so you wouldn't be spending nearly as much time mezzed.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 04:50:13 PM by Nevermore »

Over and out.
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Reply #484 on: July 13, 2009, 05:11:07 PM

I couldn't play DaoC today because it's an archaic piece of software. Last time I tried to play it, I felt like I was running on Ice.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
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Reply #485 on: July 13, 2009, 05:25:55 PM

100K users can fund a studio. Of course, there's the matter of making production costs and Games Workshop licensing fees, but given that the US studio has already had pretty severe layoffs they should be sustainable if they can keep/build on those numbers.

At 15K users you have to start asking yourself if it's paying for the 1 server you have left.

Yeah, the 15k HAD to be wrong, because fuck, you can't even keep the lights on at an operation like that with 15k subs. Hell, the server bills alone based on the number of servers WAR still has left should be close to swallowing that revenue whole.

But even at 100k, this game is fucked. It is a huge, cratering hole sucking revenue from other parts of the company - that is, if you believe Mark Jacobs assertions that the game really needs around 500k to be successful. Based on the initial sub numbers, and the fact that almost 1 million boxes were sold, 100k is death on a stick. You know that the licensing fees from GW have got to be pretty stout. Not Star Wars stout, but enough that the game is likely not long for this world.

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Reply #486 on: July 13, 2009, 05:30:58 PM

Are people joking around that the CC in DAoC is worse than War? The only time this would be true would have been late 2001 DAoC vs Warhammer now. I'll take a 20 second mez if my purge is down over ANYTHING in Warhammer.




From the FAQ on the Herald:

You already have a character of an opposing realm on the destination server. If this is the case you will have to delete your character of the opposing realm on the destination server in order to complete the character transfer.
..................  awesome, for real




Turns out this they changed this and allow you to pick your destination after you fill out an appeal stating you'll have characters on both factions come merging. However, the fact that they actually decided, for awhile, that it would be OK to force players to delete characters enough to put it into the FAQ is amazing. As for the appeal being read, responded to, and resolved, that will probably take a few weeks.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 05:56:31 PM by waffel »
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Reply #487 on: July 13, 2009, 06:34:16 PM

Another 5 dead US servers, leaves 10 US now.  Anyone know how many US LOTRO has?
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Reply #488 on: July 13, 2009, 06:40:39 PM

Another 5 dead US servers, leaves 10 US now.  Anyone know how many US LOTRO has?

11, according to the LOTRO forums.

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Reply #489 on: July 13, 2009, 06:41:28 PM

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