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Author Topic: State of The Game - Mark Jacobs  (Read 619208 times)
Fordel
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Reply #875 on: November 25, 2008, 07:16:34 AM

I wanted Romans in space so bad.


For no logical reason mind you, I just love The Roman empire. Especially the romanticized made up version of it!

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
khaine
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Reply #876 on: November 25, 2008, 07:32:31 AM

With hindsight the fact that Mythic wanted to release this after DAoC should have been a warning sign to everyone.

Quote
Unlike Dark Age of Camelot, Imperator is a Player versus Environment (PvE) game. However, given that much of the game is set in the Roman Republic, there will be plenty of opportunities to players to test themselves against other players within the game. If you have seen our E3 demo movie, there is a reason that the Flavian Amphitheater (known as the Coliseum in our world) occupies a central part.


I never knew that , I'd always assumed that Imperator was going to have some sort of RvR/PvP component, just because it would seem to be necessary

So it was going to be a Romans in space, PVE only mmorpg ?

THAT , is a design/initial concept meeting that I would like to see/hear the notes from

ghost
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Reply #877 on: November 25, 2008, 07:45:22 AM

Imperator actually looked pretty cool.  Definitely cooler than Tabula Rasa.  Too bad it didn't go forward.
schild
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Reply #878 on: November 25, 2008, 07:46:50 AM

Imperator actually looked pretty cool.  Definitely cooler than Tabula Rasa.  Too bad it didn't go forward.

NOTHING looked cooler than the first video for Tabula Rasa.

Fucking thing had unicorns, rainbows, AND bards. Imagine what Stargate would look like if that game had come out.
Fordel
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Reply #879 on: November 25, 2008, 07:47:58 AM

Imperator was supposed to be some kind of pretend SWG/EQ experience, or something?  Head scratch

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Nebu
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Reply #880 on: November 25, 2008, 07:48:06 AM

I still remember when Auto Assault was getting massive amounts of love around here pre release. Then it released.  We all know the rest of the story.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Trippy
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Reply #881 on: November 25, 2008, 08:05:43 AM

I still remember when Auto Assault was getting massive amounts of love around here pre release.
Not from those of us in the Beta.
ghost
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Reply #882 on: November 25, 2008, 08:07:11 AM

I still remember when Auto Assault was getting massive amounts of love around here pre release. Then it released.  We all know the rest of the story.

This seems to be the case with most games.  Very few live up to expectations.  I don't know why that is.  Maybe it is because computer games are no longer being designed by the "computer geek" types from days of old.  When you start mixing money with anything it causes issues.
khaine
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Reply #883 on: November 25, 2008, 08:11:16 AM

Sorry to continue along the derail , but with the mention of Tabula Rasa and in another thread Auto Assault ,

NCSoft obviously thinks if a game is crap to just kill it is better than to let it languish a'la Matrix Online and the other ones on life support on the SOE all access pass

I wonder what thought process/business decision makes one company go route A and the other B - obviously with the Lineage line and other games NCSoft has the facilities/ability to be able to keep games running if they wanted , and I would imagine SOE isn't in the business of losing money so there must be enough $$ coming in to justify keeping their floundering games alive

So again , from a business perspective , what process decides its better to kill a game or just keep it alive and get what $$ you can out of it ?
Trippy
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Reply #884 on: November 25, 2008, 08:14:14 AM

If SOE still finds it financially viable to leave Matrix Online plugged in, then NC could have derived some benefit from the continued existence of Tabula Rasa, given the correct business model.
I'm not an accountant so somebody can correct me but given the way NCsoft took a writeoff when they announced the closure of AA I'm assuming there are tax/accounting/financial advantages for taking an up front hit by closing the game sooner rather than later instead of carrying a lot of crap associated with a money losing game on your books for years and years. SOE can operate games like MxO and Vanguard because they acquired them for a relative pittance, so they don't have all the "costs" sitting in their books like NCsoft does.
khaine
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Reply #885 on: November 25, 2008, 08:19:21 AM

Damn I had forgotten that very important part

SOE got VG , MxO, and others for very little cost so in a different situation -

Thanks for the reminder , guess that puts them in a different boat financial wise -

Along those same lines , I wonder if a 24.99 DOAC/UO/WAR access pass would entice a few more to stay around
Nebu
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Reply #886 on: November 25, 2008, 08:22:08 AM

Along those same lines , I wonder if a 24.99 DOAC/UO/WAR access pass would entice a few more to stay around

No. 

DAoC used to be 9.99 a month (or was it 12.99?) and people balked at the price hike to 14.99.  UO can be played on freeshards.  WAR... well, take a look at the long list of threads and pages. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
ghost
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Reply #887 on: November 25, 2008, 08:24:15 AM

Sorry to continue along the derail , but with the mention of Tabula Rasa and in another thread Auto Assault ,

NCSoft obviously thinks if a game is crap to just kill it is better than to let it languish a'la Matrix Online and the other ones on life support on the SOE all access pass

I wonder what thought process/business decision makes one company go route A and the other B - obviously with the Lineage line and other games NCSoft has the facilities/ability to be able to keep games running if they wanted , and I would imagine SOE isn't in the business of losing money so there must be enough $$ coming in to justify keeping their floundering games alive

So again , from a business perspective , what process decides its better to kill a game or just keep it alive and get what $$ you can out of it ?

Dollars in >>> Dollars out.

I have a suspicion that companies like EA aren't into games like WAR to make small change.  There is too much upkeep and behind the scenes support for this.  EA had a revenue of something crazy like 3.1 billion last year.  The 1-200 million they put out on WAR is small beans to them, and if they aren't making a significant profit off of it it doesn't seem to reason that they would want to continue supporting a very expensive support staff.  Now it might be monetarily worth it to go ahead and keep something running once they get it "stable" even if the content isn't that great because it takes less support staff. It seems the MO of most of these companies these days is to try and get people hooked into the initial levels with the upper levels being somewhat unfinished.  I wonder if they aren't significantly underestimating how fast people will level......

Anyhoo, I am sure that these companies have some form of pro forma type spreadsheets that show where their monthly income from a venture will begin to break even and then income will start to trickle in.  These estimates take into account initial expenses and monthly overhead costs.  Without getting to far into "business mode", suffice it to say that I'm sure EA has a cutoff of monthly income that they want to get to.  What that is, only they know.
Lantyssa
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Reply #888 on: November 25, 2008, 09:45:37 AM

Jacobs has also publically said (here maybe?), that EA wanted to shut UO down but he convinced them to keep it running.  Say what we will about him, that does show EA is mostly in this for the big bucks and someone needs leverage to make them behave otherwise.  After this, Mythic may not have that pull to save UO the next time an EA exec questions why they're keeping it around...

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Shatter
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Reply #889 on: November 25, 2008, 10:40:42 AM

Folks,

 

   Over the last few months I’ve spoken about our continued focus on improving our open RvR systems.  While we have taken some major steps in the last month, we believe that there is much more we can do to encourage people to take part in oRvR throughout the entire evolution of their character(s).  Over the next few months we have some very exciting changes and additions taking place.  Please note that as always, this does not represent everything that either we are doing or thinking about doing, just what we, as of now, plan on adding to WAR.

   We have a number of major initiatives planned for oRvR in WAR.  Please keep in mind that these changes/systems apply to oRvR only and not to scenarios.  This is not all we are working on but these do reflect the majority of oRvR additions that we are currently working on/planning for the next few months.

   First, we have created an RvR Influence system.  This system is designed to reward our oRvR players with lots of new stuff that you can only get through oRvR.  This will be a complimentary system to our PQ Influence system.  This system is already implemented in 1.1 and is scheduled to go LIVE along with that version in December.   

   Second, we want to improve the visibility that players have into oRvR and make it easier for players to get involved in the action quickly and easily.   We have a number of wide-ranging changes going into our map and travel systems to allow players to better understand the state of oRvR in our game and also allow them to get to the action faster.  We have already taken one step with putting a Rally Master in each Warcamp but we will also add the ability for people to have a second bind point to make it even easier for players to move around the maps.  We will also make it easily for players to see where players from their Realm are engaging in oRvR, a Campaign HUD for all tiers and other improvements We will also improve Tier-wide messaging about what is going on in Battlefield Objectives and Keeps.  Other additions include changes to the UI, in-game manual improvements, map enhancements, and a few other changes.

   Third, we want to provide greater incentives to players to participate in oRvR.  In order to accomplish this we will be adding additional layers to the questing system of oRvR including the addition of Keep Quests, “Daily Event Quests”, Chained RvR Missions, improve the initial Tome Unlocks and other oRvR-oriented Events.  We will also improve our BO itemization.  Our goal is to provide players with even more incentive for participating in oRvR than we have already.

   Fourth, we want to encourage guilds to take and control keeps, and we will continue our work on adding better rewards for Guilds who own Keeps as well as the addition of a system of Keep upgrades. This system will be added to the game in several stages beginning in the late winter.

   Finally, we will begin work on a global oRvR “Fame” system that will be tied directly to the Tome of Knowledge which will provide more rewards, titles, experience, etc. for participating and being successful in oRvR.    This system will provide even more incentives for people to participate in oRvR than the current systems and one that fits nicely both with the ToK’s concept as “This is your life” as well as an additional advancement and reward system.

   Please keep in mind that these additions are subject to change and given the nature of these changes/improvements, they will not go LIVE until we have thoroughly tested them.  However, these are crucial improvements to WAR and are being treated as such by the team.

    Finally, I want to close this out with a brief explanation about the role that we believe that oRvR should play in WAR.  It’s really as simple as this, oRvR should be a major focus for leveling, item gain, etc. in WAR.  Some of the systems are already in place and in Tier 4, oRvR is alive and well.  On other Tiers, however, oRvR is not being engaged in as often as we had hoped when we launched WAR.  Our goal is to ensure that oRvR is the place where players can level the fastest, get the best items and overall, have a great time while doing it.  It is supposed to be riskier, more challenging but ultimately, more rewarding than any other place within WAR.  What is outlined in this letter are some of the ways we plan on making this happen over the next few months and beyond.

    As always, we thank you for your patronage and support.  We won’t let you down.

Mark Jacobs
VP/GM Mythic Entertainment
Trippy
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Reply #890 on: November 25, 2008, 10:42:58 AM

schild
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Reply #891 on: November 25, 2008, 12:52:46 PM

I think the new kiddies need to calm down a little bit.
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Reply #892 on: November 25, 2008, 08:11:11 PM

I still remember when Auto Assault was getting massive amounts of love around here pre release. Then it released.  We all know the rest of the story.

This seems to be the case with most games.  Very few live up to expectations.  I don't know why that is.  Maybe it is because computer games are no longer being designed by the "computer geek" types from days of old.  When you start mixing money with anything it causes issues.

It's got nothing to do with "days of old" computer geeks, but rather what the audience expects of them.

Previously, a gamer would accept a couple of differently coloured sprites and 5 hours worth of repetitive gameplay that consisted of most RPGs. This kind of game could be programmed by one person.

Today, you need DirectX 9 graphics and a huge world and at least 50 hours of content to even start to cut it in RPG land. No one sane person can program / develop that kind of game (Minions and Mirth and Love are exceptions here, but they are the rare exceptions and are definitely niche) by themselves. You need a team of 20 - 40 people plus other support.

The big issue is that MMOs (and game in general) get more complex and require more input from people. Everyone throws in their slightly different contribution and you end up with a title that can look like a mishmash of different features that don't quite work well together.

For example: WAR.

Also: let's not forget that a lot of old-school games sucked hard too. Nostalgia can be another form of blindness.

Riggswolfe
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Reply #893 on: November 26, 2008, 08:15:28 AM

I think a case can be made that you need to love your game (or the IP it's based on) and be competent for success.

LOTRO is IMO, a good example of this. They clearly love the IP and are pretty competent. I think if it had launched in the state it's in now it'd have a larger playerbase, and even still, it is in pretty good shape.

DDO, ironically, is not. I think it was reasonable competently made. But you can tell that the designers had no love for the IP, or at least the world they were forced to use. This one I blame more on HASBRO/WOTC than Turbine though. Forcing an Eberron MMO was stupid, and Turbine should have said Forgotten Realms or Grey Hawk or we don't make this game.

WOW is a shining example of both, whether or not people want to admit it. In fact, if the endgame wasn't the grind of pure evil I might never have left WOW.

SWG at launch is an example of neither IMO. Current SWG has both but I think it's probably too little too late, especially with Old Republic on the horizon.

WAR? I don't know. I get the feeling the game was shoved out the door by EA and if they'd had 6 more months it would have released as a much better product. The love is there, but it also feels like the devs resent how constrained they are by the IP at the same time.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
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Reply #894 on: November 26, 2008, 08:43:37 AM

DDO, ironically, is not. I think it was reasonable competently made. But you can tell that the designers had no love for the IP, or at least the world they were forced to use. This one I blame more on HASBRO/WOTC than Turbine though. Forcing an Eberron MMO was stupid, and Turbine should have said Forgotten Realms or Grey Hawk or we don't make this game.

Having just come off the abject failure that was Asheron's Call 2 when they secured the license, I'm pretty sure Turbine had ZERO negotiating room on this IP. Eberron was the edict from on high, and yes, it was uber super retarded. But I don't think even a Forgotten Realms setting would have helped DDO when its core mechanics were just so anti-solo.

There have been a lot of lessons from WoW and not allowing every class to solo through most of the content is one of those lessons every MMO developer should have branded on their forehead.

Fordel
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Reply #895 on: November 26, 2008, 10:18:57 AM

Eberron is awesome!  DRILLING AND MANLINESS


DDO had about as much relation to Eberron as I do to the Pope. But yes, at the time they were slapping Eberron's name onto everything remotely DnD related that wasn't an actual PnP product. All it succeeded at was giving Eberron a bad and unwarranted first impression.  undecided

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
gamerjock
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Reply #896 on: November 26, 2008, 12:13:25 PM

Eberron is awesome!  DRILLING AND MANLINESS


DDO had about as much relation to Eberron as I do to the Pope. But yes, at the time they were slapping Eberron's name onto everything remotely DnD related that wasn't an actual PnP product. All it succeeded at was giving Eberron a bad and unwarranted first impression.  undecided

No, it was the correct impression.  Eberron is crap, was crap and will always be crap.  Robots, steam punk and other nonsense dont belong in Dungeons and Dragons.  Warhammer's IP was always garbage to me for the reasons I just stated.  Dwarves with steam punk, and orcs called "smashas" is just lame. 

Grayhawk or FR would have been a much more solid hit. 
eldaec
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Reply #897 on: November 26, 2008, 12:16:16 PM

I still remember when Auto Assault was getting massive amounts of love around here pre release.
Not from those of us in the Beta.
I really don't remember the love outside beta. SWG, AoC, LotRO, and a million others absolutely, but Auto Assault?

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Nebu
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Reply #898 on: November 26, 2008, 03:28:01 PM

I really don't remember the love outside beta. SWG, AoC, LotRO, and a million others absolutely, but Auto Assault?

If I remember correctly, it was pre-beta when a bunch of people here had viewed an intro of Auto Assault at a trade show.  I remember reading the show reactions here and being excited about the potential the game had as a result.   Maybe I took it a bit far calling that "love".

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Tannhauser
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Reply #899 on: November 26, 2008, 03:36:12 PM

Eberron is crap.  Stupid, goofy-ass setting.  The new FR is pretty much shit too.  Some of the new Pathfinder stuff is great.

WAR is a great IP, the game just sucks thanks to bone-headed design.
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Reply #900 on: November 26, 2008, 05:16:36 PM

The reality of DDO was that they should have started building other universes (haven't kept up with the latest releases, but...) - Ravenloft, Dark Sun et al. Make it so your character can cross over between worlds.

I didn't mind DDO as a game play experience, but the inability to solo was pretty painful and made it very easy during the trial period to decide it wasn't worth paying for.

As for WAR: I like the Warhammer setting. But WAR isn't using it "right". I'm currently playing The Witcher and that is closer to the feel of the Warhammer IP than WAR.

Sophismata
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Reply #901 on: November 26, 2008, 09:40:21 PM

As for WAR: I like the Warhammer setting. But WAR isn't using it "right". I'm currently playing The Witcher and that is closer to the feel of the Warhammer IP than WAR.
Very true. The Witcher has an excellent sense of moral ambiguity in its setting, that is decidedly lacking from WAR's.

"You finally did it, you magnificent bastards. You went so nerd that even I don't know WTF you're talking about anymore. I salute you." - WindupAtheist
Modern Angel
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Reply #902 on: November 26, 2008, 10:26:06 PM

You know, I hadn't thought of that but I think it's true. They got the surface stuff right, the look, the cockney orcs. But there wasn't the love and affection for it past that. One of the big draws of LotRO is that love affair with the IP. WAR it was like, "Yeah, we think this would be cool for a game." and it sort of stops there.
Fordel
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Reply #903 on: November 27, 2008, 06:25:07 AM

There is no steam in Eberron dammit!

Also aren't any Robots, unless you consider Golems and Homunculus' (How the FUCK do you pluralize Homunculus? Homunculuses? Homunculi? ) robots too.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
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Reply #904 on: November 27, 2008, 06:32:17 AM

Homunculi.
Driakos
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Reply #905 on: November 27, 2008, 10:19:48 AM

I like Eberron...

I've been running our D&D game there for awhile now.

oh god how did this get here I am not good with computer
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Reply #906 on: November 27, 2008, 04:25:40 PM

There is no steam in Eberron dammit!

Kettles haven't been invented then?  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Fordel
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Reply #907 on: November 27, 2008, 06:56:01 PM

There is no steam in Eberron dammit!

Kettles haven't been invented then?  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?


 Shaking fist

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #908 on: November 29, 2008, 07:44:51 AM

JWIV
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Reply #909 on: November 29, 2008, 07:49:18 AM

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