State of The Game - Mark Jacobs

[chargerrich]

I disagree in that I believe if Mythic had clearly stated that x,y and z were wrong, broke or not in place that many like myself would have stayed and waited. It is funny looking back, I really was a fanboi and loved to slam WoW at every opportunity. Gamers tend to be rabid like that and run with blinders on.

Of course everyone has a different tolerance level for "bad" "broke" and "not in game" but we tend to latch onto what is said or promised by the developers. For me personally it was when Mark bascially decided to ignore the reality that his game is very (read mind numbingly) boring and grindy starting at Tier 3.

I actually loved the game in T1-2 and had 6 different characters hit the T3 wall. Had I been told that Mythic agreed and was addressing it "soon" I would not have gone out and bought the WoW expansion that I am currently enjoying. Hell I still ended up waiting until 9.27 to buy WoLK, I wanted WAR to succeed that bad.

But like any relationship, the line between love and hate is blurred and I was jilted 

[Redgiant]

I actually loved the game in T1-2 and had 6 different characters hit the T3 wall.

I wanted it to succeed too. Mainly since I wanted a good ORvR-style fantasy-setting game around again, so I wanted it to carry the flag as DAoC's worthy successor. It didn't particularly matter that it was Mythic making it, other than the extra "confidence" that they would pull it off given what they had done before. In retrospect ...

I still say that a major reason for what has happened is (1) they tried to bolt on DAoC-style elements too late, and (2) they released a game too early that had bugs due to both basic game mechanics and late-ORvR additions.

Just like players, I think devs come in different flavors: some love WoW play, and some love DAoC play more. I may catch flak for this next comment, but I notice this pattern in friends and co-workers who play games:

1. People who love WoW PvP (BGs, Arenas)
    a. never played DAoC in its first 2 years (i.e. don't know what they are missing).
    b. think WAR scenarios == RvR (technically yes you do fight other players; in true realm spirit hell no).
    c. on average are younger, more solo-oriented due to WoW and modern emphasis, and loot-oriented over MMO realm-oriented (i.e. are more in it for self rather than relam simulation reasons) - I don't say 'casual' because play duration doesn'd dictate either style; that is more a fact of RL conditions.
    d. actually think WAR needs to add MORE scenario or PQ flavor to ORvR areas because "zergs are hard to fight"

2. People who love DAOC ORvR
    a. played DAoC in its first 2 years
    b. recognized early WoW is a poor ORvR substitute (good EQ fix, poor DAoC fix), but TM/SS, outdoor dragon/Kazak raid vs. raid fights and city raids were the closest they had
    c. think WoW PvP (BGs, arena) may be creative, but are not even close to being labelled RvR; in fact WoW has consciously moved away from non-instanced ORvR
    c. bought WAR expecting DAoC II
    d. are boggled that WAR's ORvR sucks so bad given that Mythic made DAoC (imo OF and some elements of NF - boats, destructible walls, seige - were the golden age of DAoC)
    e. realize WAR in anything like its current form is lost for their kind of play, and if anything Mythic is purposely avoiding DAoC-isms even when it is the obvious solution
    f. have put up with WAR this far only because there is nothing else on the immediate horizon, not because they like it

[rps99]

(2f): why would someone play a game he doesn't like?

[Gurney]

(2f): why would someone play a game he doesn't like?

Addiction to carrots.  They seem innocuous .... until you smoke them!


A lot of DIKU MMO become work not games.  Games are about learning and exploration and improving your abilities at things through repetition.  That is why you are "playing" them they are play bahvior.  Taht is why Super Mario Brothers is fun.  Its just repetitive running and jumping, but we as mammals create a game out of that to learn to get better at a skill.  Its fun.


You can make a lot of money by creating fun games.  People will pay a lot of money to have fun.  People will only pay money to do a job if they trick them into thinking they are playing a game.  Otherwise they expect to paid to do a job.

As people move to endgame all the hallmarks of play behavior tend to get less and less unitl you can barely call it a game.  All that is left is the addictive rewards and progression mechanics.  But once you are addicted you will do what all addicts do to get the their fix; rationalize.

Many DIKU MMO players are simply addicts fooling themselves into thinking the job they are doing is a game.  Afterall games themselves are kind of pretend.  You are really doing training when you play, just like any athelete does repetitous things to get better.  But its not a job; play beahvior is merely preparatory and once you feel prepared you move on.  You do it for its own sake.  In DIKU MMO most stuff is done because you get "paid" in loot or xp.  You do repetition you hate and that has no real purpose because you want your carrot.  The carrot makes you feel good.  Its progress.  Progress makes you feel like you accomplished something.  Not that DIKU MMOs have to be played this way there are all sorts of real gaming parts to them and they can be played as a game.  However many people wind up not doing so.


So why do they then turn around and say they hate the games etc.  Well that is another aspect of the addict.  Self-loathing.  Thus the viscous cycle continues.  You hate it and yourself for doing it, then you need to feel better so you indulge yourself.

[raydeen]

(2f): why would someone play a game he doesn't like?

I think it's because there are those of us who are desperately looking for a game that may never be. I remember reading an article in Dragon magazine back in the 80's about a bunch of college kids who were playing a computer version of D&D and came across a group of russian kids also playing in the game. It was probably a MUD of some sort on the early interweb but that story fascinated me. When EQ came out, that was my holy grail. EQ was nothing like what I had built up in my mind as to what the game should be, but it was close enough. I put up with all the fucktardedness and grind and had a blast. When WoW came out I didn't want to play it as I thought it was too dumbed down and not serious business like EQ was. Well, I got into it and now have a very hard time going back to EQ though I still keep my sub active as I like to visit the old country now and then. Now someone could keep playing WAR (I'm giving it a few months before I write it off completely) and hate it but keep hoping that it or another game like it will eventually come along and sweep them off their feet and sex happily ever after with them. We're creatures of hope. Or at least dobermans with tennis balls. We don't give up and we don't let go.

[Triforcer]

The next rock of crack will recapture that original high.  I'm sure of it!

[squirrel]

The next rock of crack will recapture that original high.  I'm sure of it!

Bad comparison. Crack sucks, but at least it's fun.

[raydeen]

The next rock of crack will recapture that original high.  I'm sure of it!

Bad comparison. Crack sucks, but at least it's fun.

I'd like to think of it more like that first lover. Neither of us quite knew what we were doing but we had a great time almost doing it and have fond memories of all the fumbling and crying.

[Zzulo]

Folks,

As we head into the holiday season here’s a quick update on where we stand plus a little bit of holiday cheer.

As the community knows, our engineering team has been focusing on a number of key issues that have been affecting WAR over the last few weeks. These issues include crashes-to-desktop (CTDs), fortress crashes and lockup issues when exiting scenarios and at certain loading screens. I’ve got some great news to report on all of these fronts. Over the last few weeks we’ve gone a bit overboard in the number of patches that we have been making to both the client and servers in order to resolve these issues quickly, especially before the end of the year. Sometimes we have announced these patches but sometimes these patches were done quietly while we tested out some of them on individual servers. The results of these efforts by the team and these patches have been quite wonderful and I’m happy to be able to talk about them now.

Our client crashes (CTDs), are now at their lowest point at any time during development or since we’ve gone LIVE. Over the last couple of weeks we cut the number of CTDs down by 75% across all players in North America. In terms of fortress takes and their affect on server stability, we have had only one server that has crashed due to a fortress take in North America since Monday (and that was on a server that had the older code). While this is not a guarantee that we have solved all the issues, the fact is that the fixes we have made have resulted in numerous fortress assaults and lots of exciting open RvR action. Finally, in terms of client lockups, we have fixed the problems that came about after the 1.1 patch and we will continue to work on this issue with additional patches today and tomorrow. While I know that this has resulted in a bit more patching during the week than is usual for us, the results have been well worth it. All of these improvements have and/or are being sent to our partner GOA for rapid deployment for our European players.

And now for some more holiday cheer! Starting today we are going to be speeding up the leveling curve in WAR for a few weeks. We’re going to increase the rest experience multiplier bonus in a hotfix today as well as reducing the time that it takes you to earn rested xp while logged out of the game, especially in Tiers 3 and 4. This will result in players’ time to level being approximately 10% faster in Tier 2 and 20% faster in Tiers 3 and 4. We hope you enjoy the changes and have a great holiday season as you speed through the tiers faster than ever before!

As always, we thank you for your patronage and support.

Happy Holidays from all of us at Mythic Entertainment. Please have a safe and fun holiday season whether your travels are in our Warhammer world or in the real world.

Mark

Man, they need to keep these XP changes for good.

[Tmon]

his will result in players’ time to level being approximately 10% faster in Tier 2 and 20% faster in Tiers 3 and 4

Too little and far too late for me I'm afraid. 

[Nebu]

his will result in players’ time to level being approximately 10% faster in Tier 2 and 20% faster in Tiers 3 and 4

When it gets to 100-200% faster in tiers 3 and 4, I may start caring again.  Until then... MEH!

[JWIV]

And it's only temporary.   

[Nebu]

Jesus /facepalm.  Well played.

[eldaec]

That is hilarious, 10% extra xp weekend!

This has to be the single most ridiculous mmog promotion in the history of the genre.

[Tannhauser]

Make xp boost permanent and I might come back.  Well in a couple of months, just got Mines of Moria.

[Arthur_Parker]

EA quarter ends this month.

[Threash]

Is the exp boost in yet? i got 5% of a level at 33 in one 120-60 serpents passage win earlier, it seemed quite a bit more than usual.

[Numtini]

10% xp boost? That's funny. It's like the exit questionaire, it's meant to make you feel better, but actually does the opposite.

[Sophismata]

Is the exp boost in yet? i got 5% of a level at 33 in one 120-60 serpents passage win earlier, it seemed quite a bit more than usual.

It's a boost to rested exp.

[Nebu]

It's a boost to rested exp.

Which proves my original point: the best way to enjoy WAR is not to play.

[UnSub]

Folks,

Sometimes we have announced these patches but sometimes these patches were done quietly while we tested out some of them on individual servers.

Am I reading this right - that Mythic is stealth testing patches on live servers?

If so, my reaction in picture form:

[Ingmar]

Folks,

Sometimes we have announced these patches but sometimes these patches were done quietly while we tested out some of them on individual servers.

Am I reading this right - that Mythic is stealth testing patches on live servers?

If so, my reaction in picture form:

Man that is maybe the worst idea ever. Just when you thought it couldn't get any stupider.

[ghost]

Folks,

Sometimes we have announced these patches but sometimes these patches were done quietly while we tested out some of them on individual servers.

Am I reading this right - that Mythic is stealth testing patches on live servers?

If so, my reaction in picture form:

Man that is maybe the worst idea ever. Just when you thought it couldn't get any stupider.

A crappy patch can't be any worse than what they've already put out there.....

[waffel]

I don't fucking understand their thinking.

So they know t3 and t4 leveling sucks ass, and their idea after months and months of bitching about it is to make rested experience give 10-20% more experience for a few weeks? What the fuck? Why not just increase experience gained from monsters/quests/players by 30% PERMANENTLY?

[Nebu]

Why not just increase experience gained from monsters/quests/players by 30% PERMANENTLY?

30%?  Hell... just slap me in the face.  If they don't at least double xp gains in those tiers soon, they're going to start losing hardcore players as well.  With the endgame still messed up, the only play value is in rerolls... and that value is pretty limited.

[angry.bob]

They managed to really fuck up the design of the current live event too. They changed the way they award INF and it's just a fucking godawful grind. It's like they designed it so that in addition to completing different tasks you'll have to grind through several hundred of the special holiday mobs too. I've spent the better part of the day working on it with a low level alt and have 7 of the 13 tasks completed - and I just hit the basic reward. There is no fucking way I'm going to grind out the amount of kills I'd need at the 5 inf per kill they give now in order to get a fucking recall scroll with 15 charges that happens to look like a beer cask.

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but it's like they have a great idea, but then at the last minute they get all fucking retarded and manage to make the exact wrong decisions in order to totally ruin things. Seriously, everyone on the fucking planet knows that the T3+ grind is still driving people away and the lack of players concentrating in the same areas is killing the end game, but they keep insisting on dancing around it like there's nothing wrong.

[waffel]

but then at the last minute they get all fucking retarded and manage to make the exact wrong decisions in order to totally ruin things.nothing wrong.

They did the exact same thing with DAoC. I don't understand the company at all. Its like they want to fail.

[ashrik]

They really are bizarre in their mindset. I'm getting 600 xp for mobs a level above me at 37, but I need the absurd amount of 852,000 to level. Let me get it over with already!

[Setanta]

Bloody hell, they are pulling their servers down for another patch. Guess I'll go play WotLK instead because at least it's downtime is minimal.

Do Mythic really not want people to play? One big patch guys - once a week - not multiple downtimes per week. Subscription canned - I'm not paying for downtime on a beta project.

[Bismallah]

Shoulda canned your sub months ago, saved the heartache. Stealth patching live servers = big no no. Hell it appears one of those stealth patches was forcing graphics down when they had more then the server could handle in one location. Walls looked like graphics from 2001, other textures were completely gutted. You think people don't notice that shit?

Then again, if people are still paying, they deserve what they get. It's obvious this company doesn't give a fuck anymore. Sure, shame on the company for pulling this crap, but even more so shame on the active subs that put up with this shit and complain non stop but don't cancel. Those people are just as responsible for allowing this to go on as the company at this point.

[Beltaine]

I think my server was one of the stealth patched ones.

I run two GeForce GTX 260's in SLI at the highest settings possible and the last few days my textures have been popping in and out of focus at random in empty zones when I'm not even moving.

 I thought my vid cards were mucking up. GG Mythic. 

[HaemishM]

Wow, what a bunch of outright wrong things. Temporary rested xp. bonuses? That's no fucking help at all. But yeah, stealth patches on select client servers - that is so ultra-mega retarded. It's the exact opposite of good customer service. There is not a big enough DO NOT WANT for that sort of thing.

[Trippy]

And now for some more holiday cheer! Starting today we are going to be speeding up the leveling curve in WAR for a few weeks. We’re going to increase the rest experience multiplier bonus in a hotfix today as well as reducing the time that it takes you to earn rested xp while logged out of the game, especially in Tiers 3 and 4. This will result in players’ time to level being approximately 10% faster in Tier 2 and 20% faster in Tiers 3 and 4. We hope you enjoy the changes and have a great holiday season as you speed through the tiers faster than ever before!

I like how he's so proud of a 20% increase. In CoH/CoV when they want to speed up levelling temporarily they *DOUBLE* the exp (aka "Double Experience Weekends"). Doubling the exp gain is the type of thing that gets people back into the game, as demonstrated by the huge spike in players playing CoH/CoV during these weekends (so many that a couple servers actually get full). 20%? Not so much.

[Bismallah]

Beltaine, that's exactly what I was referencing. One of my friends who still plays said that his graphics kept popping in and out of his high/low settings randomly (specifically ground and wall textures). I said your video card was going out. Come to find out it was the dumbfucks at Mythic mucking with the settings client side to try to improve stability, via ghost patching his server (Red Eye Mountain in his situation, or one of the ones that received magical patching because it kept crashing like whoa at Fort sieges).

And that XP bonus is laughable. They should have put the killing spree/bonus back in the game from beta, but whatever. Most games give the double XP on certain weekends. Hell didnt DAOC start giving double RP weekends for RvR incentives?

[Mrbloodworth]

They may be testing the waters before committing to the XP speed increase.