What went wrong.

[Rasix]

Huh?

[Sophismata]

That was my reaction, too.

[squirrel]

I may have been drinking at the time. I just think we're getting into  territory, repeating the same things that were covered in the first 6 pages. But w/e, I suppose it counts for some fun.

[UnSub]

Yes, we are repeating ourselves to some extent, but Mythic has gone quiet and reduced the number of dumb things it is currently doing. GOA has done a lulu by comparison, but that only effects Europe so not many NA players care.

[Arthur_Parker]

linky from 6th Of November

iGames announced today the details of ten upcoming local events for gamers battling it out in our very own Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning.

The LAN parties will be held throughout the month of November at iGames member LAN centers across the country. Each LAN party will include fun, organized activities for WAR including leveling contests, scenario play, keep raids, dungeon runs, and more. Free food, drinks, and limited-edition Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning t-shirts will also be made available and over $17,000 worth of total giveaways will be provided!

A final culminating event with up to 35 participating LAN centers nationwide will be held on November 22 called All Out WAR! The goal of All Out WAR will be to capture the end-game enemy territory in Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning.

For more details, including specific dates and LAN center addresses, go to http://www.igames.org/war or contact the iGames events team at events@igames.org.

Participating LAN centers:
Nov. 8 - Euphnet in Sunnyvale, CA (Near San Jose)
Nov. 8 - Gigabits LAN Center in Orlando, FL
Nov. 8 - Netlans in Phoenix, AZ
Nov. 8 - Vertigo Game Center in Wausau, WI (Between St. Paul and Green Bay)
Nov. 9 - Strike Zone Gaming in Fenton, MI (Northwest of Detroit)
Nov. 14 - Crazy Penguins Gaming in Rockford, IL (Northwest of Chicago)
Nov. 14 - CyGamZ in Ypsilanti, MI (Between Ann Arbor and Detroit)
Nov. 15 - Citadel Games in Brainerd, MN (North of Minneapolis)
Nov. 15 - 8wire LAN Gaming Center in Las Vegas, NV
Nov. 15 - Xtreme Gaming Cybercafe in San Antonio, TX

Linky

Here was my situation:

I was "recruited" to play on a Warhammer team at my local game center. That meant that they bought the game for me, payed for my monthly subscription, and I got to play Warhammer for free while at the game center. It also meant that during Thursday and Sunday we had a lot of people in the game center just playing Warhammer all together at once. It was all supposed to be leading up to some big iGames even on the 22nd.

I quit after two months before the iGames event (which was yesterday) even happened. I have been told that so many people at the local game center quit so that the event didn't even really have participation from our center. The big reason why people were recruited in the first place was so that the participation from our local center would look big.

So, I didn't spend a dime on the game and was actually playing with other people and could still barely make it two months. In summary, that means the game sucks.

Wonder how many people were playing for free, also remember the whole goal of the event is city capture?  Taking a Fortress still seems to be virtually impossible.

right now there is an entire server of Order players on Badlands who are FURIOUS about this.

after a couple of weeks of trying we all pulled together, got 100 people into Praag and pushed the zone in 1 hour and 30 minutes. CW went next in 30 minutes.

But as we pushed to the fortress we were not by a wall of destruction, but a wall of server lag.

we tried to push through, making our way into the main fortress building only to then have the server crash on us - ruining a week of planning, coordination among every major Order guilds on the server and the time and dedication of over 100 Order players.

If the end game is pushing zones and fortresses, Mythic needs to fix this ASAP.

Was also part of a fortress siege (The Maw) today on Karak-Hirn, on the offense (Order).

10-20 second ability casting delay was experienced from the minute we bashed down the first door and people started coming in force. Time between ticks of "withering heat" and other such channelled spells which are supposed to tick every second approached 10-15 seconds as well. Stuns, disarms and disables, if you happened to be hit by them, usually lasted somewhere between 25 and 30 seconds.

I could usually not see the members of my group, warband, or the enemy. I got to see a random 50 or so characters on my screen at any one time, despite there being 200 in the general vicinity, at least. Graphical lag was pretty high, but still playable on my machine - the server lag is what completely annihilated any chances of a successful siege.

It was incredibly disappointing, there's no other words for it. The whole point of the game (large scale RvR) is completely broken, and I honestly don't know how they can fix it. We spent all of primetime today (Sunday) locking down Praag and then Chaos Wastes, culminating in what should have been a fun siege of a fortress, and we got a huge heap of steaming dung instead. I think most of Order logged out in disgust after that, and there was a general feeling of extreme disappointment.

[Bismallah]

"So, I didn't spend a dime on the game and was actually playing with other people and could still barely make it two months. In summary, that means the game sucks."

Harsh, but true. If I was so inclined I would try to track down how this actually panned out... but since they didn't have any cybercafes within a several hundred mile radius of Mythic HQ (Fairfax) or anywhere on the East Coast for that matter it would take more effort then it's worth to find out.

If you were Mythic, wouldn't you want to have a bunch of local stuff to promote your products? Do they care that the Games Workshop Headquarters for North America is a little less then 2 hours from their Headquarters in Fairfax? How easy would it be to have a weekend at the Battle Bunker in Glen Burnie to host everyone on LANs to play WAR? Hell they have several cybercafes in the local area that could easily host a WAR weekend for next to nothing. Then again, I don't do PR/Marketing...

[Grumlic]

Well, apparently some big announcement coming down possibly tomorrow regarding RvR.

Folks,

Okay, I'm back from the EA GM meetings in LA and want to give you a quick update on a couple of major things. First, testing continues on 1.0.6. We're getting lots of good data and feedback and as always, thanks for helping us with that. Second, as I've said a couple of times here, I've been spending a lot of time in WAR and have been working closely with the team on things that I believe we need to do for WAR's oRvR. Tomorrow I hope to post a major update on our plans for the oRvR aspect of WAR. Given the nature of this update we need to have it localized for simultaneous posting for our European players so that might delay things if I can't wrap it up by the end of the day today.

So, prepare for a major update...

Mark

http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/109537345/p1/?103

EDIT: Ah, I see it was already posted in the PTS thread, sorry about double.

[UnSub]

I await the major oRvR news with a particular sense of glee.

EDIT: To pass the time - what F13 said in 2006 about WAR. Again, how what was promised wasn't delivered.

[Nevermore]

Whatever happened to Llava, anyway?

[Fordel]

The Hate consumed? 

[khaine]

If they made sudden huge changes that showed they "get it" , like massive server merges , defending keeps rewards and things along those lines I'd give it another go as again , I like the Warhammer IP enough to be entertained by running around in a world set around it , but it still needs to be fun

But if they don't , and they continue to lose players down to say 100k-200k range , where would you rank it amongst disappointment/failures mmorpg wise ?

Would going from approx 800k subs to 100k put it in Vanguard territory ?

And would the Warhammer IP behind it make it worse of a flop than AoC ? ( as in which IP do you think should have  helped more but gameplay/problems still trumped any help the IP gave )

[Nebu]

Would going from approx 800k subs to 100k put it in Vanguard territory ?

No.  Going from 800k to 100k is something unique to WAR and AoC if I'm not mistaken.  It's proof that MMO consumers have options and won't be easily conned into staying with a game they don't enjoy.  TR, Vanguard, AC2, Matrix Online, Horizons, Auto Assault, etc are in a league of their own.

[Grumlic]

Well, here is the announcement (didn't see this in the other thread so posting it here. Besides, this is "What Went Wrong" thread. Chances are discussion will end up here anyways):

Folks,

Over the last few months I’ve spoken about our continued focus on improving our open RvR systems. While we have taken some major steps in the last month, we believe that there is much more we can do to encourage people to take part in oRvR throughout the entire evolution of their character(s). Over the next few months we have some very exciting changes and additions taking place. Please note that as always, this does not represent everything that either we are doing or thinking about doing, just what we, as of now, plan on adding to WAR.

We have a number of major initiatives planned for oRvR in WAR. Please keep in mind that these changes/systems apply to oRvR only and not to scenarios. This is not all we are working on but these do reflect the majority of oRvR additions that we are currently working on/planning for the next few months.

First, we have created an RvR Influence system. This system is designed to reward our oRvR players with lots of new stuff that you can only get through oRvR. This will be a complimentary system to our PQ Influence system. This system is already implemented in 1.1 and is scheduled to go LIVE along with that version in December.

Second, we want to improve the visibility that players have into oRvR and make it easier for players to get involved in the action quickly and easily. We have a number of wide-ranging changes going into our map and travel systems to allow players to better understand the state of oRvR in our game and also allow them to get to the action faster. We have already taken one step with putting a Rally Master in each Warcamp but we will also add the ability for people to have a second bind point to make it even easier for players to move around the maps. We will also make it easily for players to see where players from their Realm are engaging in oRvR, a Campaign HUD for all tiers and other improvements We will also improve Tier-wide messaging about what is going on in Battlefield Objectives and Keeps. Other additions include changes to the UI, in-game manual improvements, map enhancements, and a few other changes.

Third, we want to provide greater incentives to players to participate in oRvR. In order to accomplish this we will be adding additional layers to the questing system of oRvR including the addition of Keep Quests, “Daily Event Quests”, Chained RvR Missions, improve the initial Tome Unlocks and other oRvR-oriented Events. We will also improve our BO itemization. Our goal is to provide players with even more incentive for participating in oRvR than we have already.

Fourth, we want to encourage guilds to take and control keeps, and we will continue our work on adding better rewards for Guilds who own Keeps as well as the addition of a system of Keep upgrades. This system will be added to the game in several stages beginning in the late winter.

Finally, we will begin work on a global oRvR “Fame” system that will be tied directly to the Tome of Knowledge which will provide more rewards, titles, experience, etc. for participating and being successful in oRvR. This system will provide even more incentives for people to participate in oRvR than the current systems and one that fits nicely both with the ToK’s concept as “This is your life” as well as an additional advancement and reward system.

Please keep in mind that these additions are subject to change and given the nature of these changes/improvements, they will not go LIVE until we have thoroughly tested them. However, these are crucial improvements to WAR and are being treated as such by the team.

Finally, I want to close this out with a brief explanation about the role that we believe that oRvR should play in WAR. It’s really as simple as this, oRvR should be a major focus for leveling, item gain, etc. in WAR. Some of the systems are already in place and in Tier 4, oRvR is alive and well. On other Tiers, however, oRvR is not being engaged in as often as we had hoped when we launched WAR. Our goal is to ensure that oRvR is the place where players can level the fastest, get the best items and overall, have a great time while doing it. It is supposed to be riskier, more challenging but ultimately, more rewarding than any other place within WAR. What is outlined in this letter are some of the ways we plan on making this happen over the next few months and beyond.

As always, we thank you for your patronage and support. We won’t let you down.

Mark

http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/109545361/p1/?75

[schild]

ctrl+f

"experience"

one result found!

Finally, we will begin work on a global oRvR “Fame” system that will be tied directly to the Tome of Knowledge which will provide more rewards, titles, experience, etc. for participating and being successful in oRvR.

Doin it wrong.

GET EVERYONE TO THE SAME TIER, QUICKLY. FUCK, HOW HARD IS THAT.

[ghost]

Hmmm.

Nobody is doing ORvR right now..........how can we change that.

I know, let's add in another experience bar.  That would be a good fix!

 

[Threash]

ORvR is simply unfixable at this point because the game simply cannot handle it.  Yesterdays heavy metal task was killing 15 people in open rvr, so i got to experience it for the first time in months.  Unplayable lag was the result of about 20 vs 20 fight in avelorn.  How can you base your fucking game on something your engine cannot fucking handle? no wonder the scenarios became the focus.

[Hoth]

Yeah, I smashed my face not even remotely enough on my Keyboard while grinding the other 4+ Bars up. 
Nice thing that this Jacobs guy shows up here and talks a bit to the elitist goldfarmerelite from elitistland, but he was clearly not listening to the stuff addressed to him.

A good start seems to be that they seem to put some effort into this "scenariogrind is the only way to level because it's the fastest"-issue. But on the other hand, what else should we expect from a manifesto that was filtered through several layers of PR and stuff just to piss nobody off. Okay, my account is active till jan 09 so I will take a look to these revolutionary changes and decide after that if I throw the DVD in the shredder or add it to my gameshelf.

p.s.: Don't ban me. My next posting will feature japanese guys in rubbersuits just to please you, so stay tuned.

[Nebu]

Add HAM bars.  That should fix it!

[HaemishM]

/facepalm

Really, what the fuck? WHAT... THE... FUCK?

Why in the fuck would you feel the need to add YET ANOTHER FUCKING EXPERIENCE BAR (YAFEB! TM Pending) to this game? Are the other 4 not enough? In what goddamn holy ivory tower are you seeing the need for yet another grind? You don't need oRVR influence to reward oRVR, just make the drops better, make the renown you get in oRVR much better than scenarios, and make the current renown gear NOT SUCK. What the fuck is so hard to get about multiplying the current oRVR experience gain by 4 or 5 to help ease the t3 grind? That's really the best you can come up with?

I used to respect Mark Jacobs and the Mythic development team, but I see that respect is misplaced. This is clownshoes of the highest order.

[Lantyssa]

Well, they kinda sorta get it.  It's far too late for this being anything but a niche game, but they do admit it should be possible to level in ORvR.  Of course that means killing three thousand players for a level, but it's a start.

Whatever happened to Llava, anyway?

He showed up briefly several months ago.  Our geeky goth boy needs to come back.

[tolakram]

YET ANOTHER FUCKING EXPERIENCE BAR

I read it as an equipment bar, but I tend to agree none the less.

This oRvR message was extremely weak.  I'm not convinced that after 1.1 I can go out and gain ranks by having fun in oRvR.

Gain ranks by having fun in oRvR.
Gain ranks by having fun in oRvR.
Gain ranks by having fun in oRvR.

I was also looking for a direct acknowledgment that scenarios were far more efficient to level than oRvR is.  I see more layers, but nothing that tells me ... see above.

[Bismallah]

He didn't address the biggest problem facing players today, population.

[schild]

He didn't address the biggest problem facing players today, population.

He's employing the Field of Dreams strategy.

[Trippy]

It's not clear that this Fame system is Yet Another Bar. It could just be the ToK souped up with oRvR achievements or perhaps it's a form of PvP "currency" you can use to purchase various things.

[Kail]

ORvR is simply unfixable at this point because the game simply cannot handle it.  Yesterdays heavy metal task was killing 15 people in open rvr, so i got to experience it for the first time in months.  Unplayable lag was the result of about 20 vs 20 fight in avelorn.  How can you base your fucking game on something your engine cannot fucking handle? no wonder the scenarios became the focus.

This is far too true.  My comp was choking like hell last night (weird thing is, it seems fine in tier 1, decent in tier 2, but in tier 3, framerate just hits the floor; I'm stuck wondering if the T3 armor and spell effects are just that much more intense or what).

Some interesting stuff in there.  Lowering the XP grind, I'm kind of meh about.  If they made ORvR fun, I'll have fun doing ORvR as I level, and if they don't, there's really no reason for me to level.  Upgrades for keeps might be interesting, but no way that's happening for six months at least.  Improvements to maps might help, but probably won't solve the low density problems.

New inf bar, I dunno.  I'd need more details on it.  Rewarding people more for doing something they find fun sounds fine to me.  But if it's a bar you can max, I guarantee you'll see less people with maxed bars in ORvR than you would if there was no bar at all.

Saying "Our goal is to ensure that oRvR is the place where players can level the fastest, get the best items and overall, have a great time while doing it. It is supposed to be riskier, more challenging but ultimately, more rewarding than any other place within WAR" is encouraging, I'd like to see it happen.

[HaemishM]

Only he said nothing about upping the experience gained in oRVR, just about adding a new magical bar that will somehow get people into the oRVR lakes. I guess the theory is if there are more people to fight in oRVR, you'll gain xp faster...

You just won't gain it as fast as you do in scenarios. So why would people leave the scenarios?

[schild]

I guess the theory is if there are more people to fight in oRVR, you'll gain xp faster...

Pretty sure the theory if "If you build it, they will come."

Unfortunately, he's wrong.

[Hoth]

[...]
I was also looking for a direct acknowledgment that scenarios were far more efficient to level than oRvR is.  I see more layers, but nothing that tells me ... see above.

I don't think that will happen anytime. Admitting this is the first step to nerfs xp/rp in scenarios and that could make customers wander off to the root of all evil. They just raise the xp/rp of all other things, which does almost the same thing but pisses nobody off. My advice as the simple costomer that I am would be FIX THE GODDAMN SERVERS SO THEY CAN TAKE MORE THEN 25 PLAYERS IN FORTRESSSIEGES! But I'm just a simple costumer, what could I know about the thing that hoover in the brains of the developerrs. 

Edit by Trippy: don't do that

[Nebu]

I think that the situation boils down to two choices:

1) Appease the current paying crowd

2) Re-vamp the game with the hopes of attracting back some of the 800k that came to begin with.

Sadly, it's far too late for #2.  I say "sadly" because this is the option we'd most like to see.  You get one chance for a first impression.  Fixing the game (#2) would give them the best chance for longevity (a la EvE and EQ2), but will never attract the big numbers.  It's going to be interesting to see how this all develops.  It may provide insight into how EA makes decisions on investment.  This also will show some sign of what is ahead for the development of the KOTOR title. 

I think EA is just tossing some money in the pit to see if the development of a console-based MMO is doable in the near future. 

[tazelbain]

1) Appease the current paying crowd

2) Re-vamp the game with the hopes of attracting back some of the 800k that came to begin with.

I don't see how these groups are at odds, like say SWG.  I am sure the 1s want the 2s to fill out their armies.

[ghost]

I guess it remains to be seen how much of this will actually get implemented.  This is actually very similar to his previous messages.  I'm still waiting to be "retarded not to participate in open RvR". 

Doesn't even address the crappy ass keep design or diminishing returns on player kills in ORvR. 

[fuser]

Only he said nothing about upping the experience gained in oRVR, just about adding a new magical bar that will somehow get people into the oRVR lakes. I guess the theory is if there are more people to fight in oRVR, you'll gain xp faster...

Add an XP multiplier for time spent in orvr lake, and create a giant loot table for people in the lake with rarity depending on time+contribution of the person killed.

edit: yes sorry its been covered so many times, doesn't seem too hard to implement and would get people there and to stay there... chaos would come out, with every post I'm amazed at the total asshattery.

[Hoth]

I guess it remains to be seen how much of this will actually get implemented.  This is actually very similar to his previous messages.  I'm still waiting to be "retarded not to participate in open RvR". 

Doesn't even address the crappy ass keep design or diminishing returns on player kills in ORvR. 

I can't think of a way to remove these diminishing returns on rp and xp without opening up endless possibilities to exploit that. Maybe you and a few other people wouldn't care but I'm sure the last thing the Mythic officials want is forums full of "this game is sooo full of exploiters that made 40/rr80"-posts. Guess that would frighten more possible subscribers then "meh, grinding to rr80/40 is hard, they need to buff xp/rr again".

We will also make it easily for players to see where players from their Realm are engaging in oRvR, a Campaign HUD for all tiers and other improvements We will also improve Tier-wide messaging about what is going on in Battlefield Objectives and Keeps.

This could be the first step to have some orvr, if players know that there is some action going on chances are good that at least some of them will check out whats happening and start some orvr brawling. But then again I think that I have read too much of those "letters to our customers" and should know better. Hope is a funny thing when it comes to playing MMOs.

Add an XP multiplier for time spent in orvr lake, and create a giant loot table for people in the lake with rarity depending on time+contribution of the person killed.

This sounds exactly like the thing I would imagine when reading "[...]RvR Influence system. This system is designed to reward our oRvR players with lots of new stuff that you can only get through oRvR. This will be a complimentary system to our PQ Influence system[...]". Just with another modifier for killed players and assists or something.

[Driakos]

If they are organized enough to cause rampant 40/80 to be a problem, then they are organized enough to get around diminishing returns.  Don't make the system stupid, to stop 1%.  Hammer the 1% instead.

[ghost]

If they are organized enough to cause rampant 40/80 to be a problem, then they are organized enough to get around diminishing returns.  Don't make the system stupid, to stop 1%.  Hammer the 1% instead.

Exactly.  To be honest, I could give a shit of some people exploit.  They exploit now and will find a way to exploit the new system. 

I say just give a per minute RR point bolus to every toon in the RvR lakes, ie 50 RR points per minute or something.  This would get tons of people in the lakes in a heartbeat. 

What?  You say people would go AFK in the lakes?  I say easy hunting...........