SWTOR

[Merusk]

I'm getting sick of this Rip Van Winkle shit.  If you think you know something new about SWTOR, we knew it 5 pages ago.

I hear there's going to be NPC companions!

[Rasix]

Are they fully voiced? Because something has to be taking up that 138 gb install size.

[Paelos]

I heard we lost companion kits, and even though I never actually knew what they were, I'm devastated and considering canceling my preorder.

[Surlyboi]

I've got new news. But I'm not saying anything yet.

[Sky]

I know the release date, Lucas entrusted it to me and I'm only telling people in my guild Bad County.

[Pezzle]

For what it's worth, I'll probably end up being a tanky Trooper, since it will be Fordel and his amazing Scoundrel friends at release. 

+1 Scoundrel right here!

[Draegan]

We should get a calender and take bets on the release date.  Whoever wins can't yell Stawberries for a month.

[luckton]

Legit raid info!

http://darthhater.com/2011/07/28/gamestar-magazine-interview-with-gabe-amatangelo-on-operations/

Each Raid has 2 sizes, for 8 and 16 heros, as well as ajustable [sic] difficulty levels. The quality of the loot is based on the difficulty setting of the instance." After every bossfight EACH player gets a bag of Rewards", says Lead designer Gabe Amatangelo. "Inside that Bag you can find class specific Items, or Badges which can be used to buy items. You don't have to fight for your rewards."

http://imgur.com/a/O6IZ9

Obi-Wan: I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of hardcore raider's voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

[Evildrider]

I love that bag of goodies idea.  Especially when my guild is gonna be like 3/4th Sith Sorcerers.

[caladein]

Aside from generic live team-related concerns about balancing multiple raid sizes, that's about what I'd expect from a game that isn't either old or purposefully anachronistic.

Maybe 16 is a bit small for the larger size if you're going to bother having one anyway but eight seems large enough for the smaller one for a game with this sort of class count/design.

[eldaec]

Having big raid be exactly double the small raid doesn't seem especially clever - as Devs almost always underestimate the effort in building the larger group. Then people all end up running more smaller raids.

If the spilt was 8/12 or even 12/16 it is more likely the community would do whatever they have people for rather than min/max everything. But not a big deal.

[Amaron]

"Inside that Bag you can find class specific Items, or Badges which can be used to buy items. You don't have to fight for your rewards."

I hope they keep this as the only raid loot system.  I'm all for options but I think taking away master looter can only be a good thing.   Kind of disappointed that it's just flat higher difficulty = better gear but I'll reserve judgment till I see the highest difficulty I guess.

[Fabricated]

Wow already looks kinda silly with 25 people in a raid. 25 jedi hacking at the ankles of some ancient AT-ST knockoff would be blinding.

[luckton]

Wow already looks kinda silly with 25 people in a raid. 25 jedi hacking at the ankles of some ancient AT-ST knockoff would be blinding.

Agreed.  16 seems even far-fetched right now.  Undoubtedly there will be newer classes in the future to add to the mix, but right now, yeah...

As far as the loot system, it should work just fine for the casual "I'm here for the story, not to cut teeth, but I still like to get some trophies for my trouble" crowd.  Imagine if WoW went exclusively to this system 

[Merusk]

I'd laugh and laugh and laugh.

The more I hear the more jazzed I am.  The loot system so far sounds like a variant of what I've always wanted to see and I've been a proponent of exactly this sort of loot system for years.  Limited loot and skinner boxes only says to me your encounters suck or your content cycle is so long you need that crutch to keep people coming back.

[Nevermore]

Wow, in DAoC the standard party size was 8.  In this it's a raid. 

[luckton]

Wow, in DAoC the standard party size was 8.  In this it's a raid. 

It took over a decade for them to realize that "Less people = less bullshit drama = fewer CSM tickets"

[Rishathra]

I'd laugh and laugh and laugh.

The more I hear the more jazzed I am.  The loot system so far sounds like a variant of what I've always wanted to see and I've been a proponent of exactly this sort of loot system for years.  Limited loot and skinner boxes only says to me your encounters suck or your content cycle is so long you need that crutch to keep people coming back.

This.  A thousand times this.

[luckton]

Imagine...gone are the days of DKP systems and loot councils.  You just go in, kill shit, and everyone gets a slice of the pie.

*wonders if FoH will still play this game* 

[Murgos]

I heard we lost companion kits, and even though I never actually knew what they were, I'm devastated and considering canceling my preorder.

You're joking but this is actually the reaction of some people on the official boards.  It's a feature that was only ever vaguely described and yet people have become so emotionally invested in the concept that they are rage-quitting.

[Malakili]

Seems pretty reasonable. It does seems like they are saying they think their content will be good enough that they don't need trick people into doing it for lots of big shiny over and over. On the other hand, the MMO genre has been built on repeating content over and over a LOT.  If their game really has enough content that this is a viable design decision, thats the most impressive news yet.   Either they or they are just jettisoning the hardcore crowd altogether, I suppose, which seems possible.  Kind of "fine, if you want to plow through everything in a week and then be bored, fuck off then"

[Murgos]

My guess on the most popular to least popular classeses is based on lore, "badass" representations in the movies, and playstyles.

Most Popular - Bounty Hunter: It will be the WoW hunter at the release of this game. Fuckers will be everywhere and complaining they can't get groups. Several variations will have Fett, Feet, Ftt, Fatt, etc.
2nd Most - Sith Warrior: Everyone played a dark side Jedi in KOTOR at least once, so this is a natural. Plus Darth whoseits are going to be rampant.
3rd Most - Sith Inquisitor: The Warlock of SWTOR. I fully expect it to have tons of caster types playing the sorc build, but it's not going to be as popular as the warrior because it's not canon.
4th Most - Imperial Agent: Nobody knows what this is. They made it up. It's not in any movies and has no background. Oh and it has a healer spec nobody will ever use.

If you're right this will be interesting since those classes are in order:

1) ranged tank
2) melee dps/melee tank
3) healing/ranged dps
4) ranged dps/stealth

Which means we'd see a game where tanks are everywhere (on one side at least)

Coming back to this.  One of the devs posted that in the randomly chosen beta populace 20% of all first characters are Jedi Knights (Luke and Obi-Wan) with only 8% being Smugglers (Han).  Remember that an equal breakdown would be 12.5%.

Also, betacake has seemingly been removed from existence.

[Kirth]

Imagine...gone are the days of DKP systems and loot councils.  You just go in, kill shit, and everyone gets a slice of the pie.

*wonders if FoH will still play this game* 

With guaranteed drops your spot in the raid becomes the commodity. I am still wondering why no one does scalable encounters, this type of drop system seems perfect for it.

[Lucas]

Obi-Wan: I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of hardcore raider's voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

[/quote]

Such a sweet, delicate sound for my ears 

[Lucas]

My guess on the most popular to least popular classeses is based on lore, "badass" representations in the movies, and playstyles.

Most Popular - Bounty Hunter: It will be the WoW hunter at the release of this game. Fuckers will be everywhere and complaining they can't get groups. Several variations will have Fett, Feet, Ftt, Fatt, etc.
2nd Most - Sith Warrior: Everyone played a dark side Jedi in KOTOR at least once, so this is a natural. Plus Darth whoseits are going to be rampant.
3rd Most - Sith Inquisitor: The Warlock of SWTOR. I fully expect it to have tons of caster types playing the sorc build, but it's not going to be as popular as the warrior because it's not canon.
4th Most - Imperial Agent: Nobody knows what this is. They made it up. It's not in any movies and has no background. Oh and it has a healer spec nobody will ever use.

If you're right this will be interesting since those classes are in order:

1) ranged tank
2) melee dps/melee tank
3) healing/ranged dps
4) ranged dps/stealth

Which means we'd see a game where tanks are everywhere (on one side at least)

Coming back to this.  One of the devs posted that in the randomly chosen beta populace 20% of all first characters are Jedi Knights (Luke and Obi-Wan) with only 8% being Smugglers (Han).  Remember that an equal breakdown would be 12.5%.

Also, betacake has seemingly been removed from existence.

Betacake [Super seekret outlaw terrorist beta leak site] is simply moving to a new host (read it on its facebook page).

[caladein]

The more I hear the more jazzed I am.  The loot system so far sounds like a variant of what I've always wanted to see and I've been a proponent of exactly this sort of loot system for years.  Limited loot and skinner boxes only says to me your encounters suck or your content cycle is so long you need that crutch to keep people coming back.

They mentioned both currency and items so I don't see how that part changes.  You still appear to be dealing with drop tables, getting the wrong item, and needing to run the place repeatedly (either for more currency or because the item you want is never in your bag).

It's just that instead of "Oh no, Agility Leather Boots dropped and we have no Rogues or Feral Druids." it's "Oh no, Damage Mercenary Boots were in my bag and I'm a healer."

[Mrbloodworth]

"Inside that Bag you can find class specific Items, or Badges which can be used to buy items. You don't have to fight for your rewards."

I hope they keep this as the only raid loot system.  I'm all for options but I think taking away master looter can only be a good thing.   Kind of disappointed that it's just flat higher difficulty = better gear but I'll reserve judgment till I see the highest difficulty I guess.

Isn't this like the WAR system?

[Paelos]

Yes, the first thing I thought of when I heard about the system was WAR PQs and bag rewards.

[Zetor]

"Inside that Bag you can find class specific Items, or Badges which can be used to buy items. You don't have to fight for your rewards."

I hope they keep this as the only raid loot system.  I'm all for options but I think taking away master looter can only be a good thing.   Kind of disappointed that it's just flat higher difficulty = better gear but I'll reserve judgment till I see the highest difficulty I guess.

Isn't this like the WAR system?

WAR had group pve content?

I think it's more akin to COH (kill boss/complete TF -> everyone gets a piece of 'appropriate' loot scaled to the difficulty slider), and it's a good thing, too.

e: WAR PQs were also competitive, with only the highest-ranked people getting the good stuff and the bottom half not even getting a bag with a green usually. Considering that the scoring system was half random and half idiotic at times... yeah.

[UnSub]

http://imgur.com/a/O6IZ9

Obi-Wan: I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of hardcore raider's voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

Hardcore raiders just flip to running the 16 player raid as often as possible.

[Mrbloodworth]

Yes, the first thing I thought of when I heard about the system was WAR PQs and bag rewards.

Yeah that part, but Not just that, WAR had all quest loot class appropriate. IIRCC. Does SWTOR have this part as well? That would be rad if it did.

[caladein]

With guaranteed drops your spot in the raid becomes the commodity. I am still wondering why no one does scalable encounters, this type of drop system seems perfect for it.

Because trying to balance the same encounter for multiple sizes above a trivial difficulty is hard.  Trying to do so without regurgitating the handful of mechanics that scale somewhat cleanly among group sizes that can be double/half of one another is even harder.  (Hint: Fire being bad isn't one of those mechanics.)

[Kirth]

With guaranteed drops your spot in the raid becomes the commodity. I am still wondering why no one does scalable encounters, this type of drop system seems perfect for it.

Because trying to balance the same encounter for multiple sizes above a trivial difficulty is hard.  Trying to do so without regurgitating the handful of mechanics that scale somewhat cleanly among group sizes that can be double/half of one another is even harder.  (Hint: Fire being bad isn't one of those mechanics.)

I wouldn't say its that hard, they have already designed around 2 group sizes. Just pick a 3rd or 4th milestone size between your min and max where you not only scale hp/dmg but you start adding the mechanics of the max group size fight. example

Fictional AT-AT raid in swtor:

8 man version - no extra gunners
16 man version - 2 side gunners to deal with
12+ - one side gunner

I has become tiresome to have to deal with hard limits on raid group sizes, with the need to over recruit for absenteeism or burnout and maintain rotations for raid spots.

[Paelos]

I too have been waiting for the flexible scaling raid system for a long time. It takes all the bricks out of the briefcase for a raid leader. The game that figures out how to do it is going to print money if it's polished well.

[Draegan]

Pretty cool loot system.

I just wonder how long "raid content" lasts then if you get loot every time.  I'd be curious if you get some loot for companions, and some side loot for yourself AND a badge.  

You then collect enough badges for the "Tier gear" so the life cycle of the raid content is the same as any other game, but this way everyone gets goodies every time you play which keeps people playing.  Slot machine mentality so to speak.

Kinda clever.