F2P NDA is down. Dish.

[caladein]

Going back to my original question: the last WOW LFG interface iteration before Dungeon Finder (ie. being able to queue for multiple dungeons/raids at a time and set a comment with a built-in lfg channel you joined automatically) was ok. Is something like that coming?

No, it doesn't appear to be anything like that.  You still have to LFF via chat and you get teleported automatically to the instance.

For Volume III, Book 2, we’ve renamed the Skirmish Join panel to be the new Instance Join panel. Within it there are currently two tabs: Classic and Skirmish. The Skirmish tab is probably familiar to most of you, so I won’t cover it here; there are previous dev diaries that focus on that part. The Classic tab is the new one and includes every replayable instance in the game. This includes all instances from Shadows of Angmar through Mines of Moria and Siege of Mirkwood. There are 39 entries in all (there’s a list at the end of the series of articles), ranging from Garth Agarwen, to Carn Dûm, to the Vile Maw, to Sammath Gûl and dozens more. Every 3, 6, and 12-man replayable instance in the game is now accessible through Instance Join.

Just like Skirmishes, once you select one, you’ll receive a window to travel now, as will all players in your fellowship. You’ll all teleport in from wherever you are, be able to play and enjoy the instance together, and be placed back where you each came from when you’re done. Unlike Skirmishes, instances actually have entrances in the world. Those still exist, and if you run to the entrance, the instance join panel will open with the instance you’re trying to enter highlighted. The exit doors at the start of instances also exist and running into those will teleport you back to wherever you entered from.

(Emphasis mine.)

[Yegolev]

Considering the state of travel in LotRO, I fully support the teleportation of a fellowship into instances.  There's immersion, and then there's backbreaking tedium.

[Tannhauser]

Agreed.  I am hopeful the new system doesn't make the game feel 'cheaper'.  By that I mean I like the WoW LFD tool, it has let me hit some dungeons hard, but something seems to be lost to me.  It really does feel less immersive. 

[Yegolev]

Well, it is, agreed.  See Skirmishes.  They do provide a counterweight to the large(ish) world of Middle Earth, for when you get tired of trying to figure out the fastest way to get from Misty Mtns to Forochel.  I'd submit that they will be optional and that some people will overuse them and get disgusted with how they ruined the game or some nonsense... even though the instances aren't actually removing anything except a cockblock.  But of course this is old routine for us jaded MMO veterans.

[Azazel]

I really hope the shift away from the Subscription model (we need to stretch out the game artificially with backbreaking grind and long tedious travel) to the F2P/Microtransaction model (Let's keep these people with wallets around and happy) will lead to things like more fast travel, and remove shit like the pointless rep grind just to use the fucking horse in that place in Angmar that you only achieve once you're done with the place forever.


also - have they given any dates on how long till this goes live? I missed the free Moria goat by like 2 days, and I'd like to get it ASAP. Along with more bank space. I might even become more interested in playing the game.

[Ingmar]

remove shit like the pointless rep grind just to use the fucking horse in that place in Angmar that you only achieve once you're done with the place forever.

yessssssssssssssss

[Yegolev]

It just occurred to me that I might want to auction all of my warmaster's lashes and orc campaign medallions.

[Azazel]

why, specifically?

[Modern Angel]

Because they can be bought for real monies in a month or two, thereby making them way less profitable in game.

[Azazel]

Damn, so you can buy all the rep items with real money? That's ...interesting.

[Tannhauser]

Can you buy a house/decorations?  Because I'd like one, but never liked the money drain.

[rk47]

Snagged a beta key from MMORPG.com
With one char slot and one server (Bullroader?) means I've got to keep deleting to try things out.

I dropped my L10 Runekeeper and restarted as Captain - Why the heck are they man-race only anyway?
It was great. The pet is nice, and outfits made me happy for some reason. I tried weaponcrafting but realized it couldn't keep up with the PVE rewards, so I just rely on auction goods. Nifty L14 great sword acquired for 20 silvers. Very excited to log back in to test it out in Bree land.

I think I might spend some real money on release if I like it enough, so far I like the no pressure subscription model. I'm not sure why, but I felt cheated when I'm not playing a subbed MMORPG frequent enough, so this f2p is definitely picking up my interest. They could use a more 'uplifting' music tracks though, it's putting me to sleep constantly.

[Mrbloodworth]

Snagged a beta key from MMORPG.com
With one char slot and one server (Bullroader?) means I've got to keep deleting to try things out.

I dropped my L10 Runekeeper and restarted as Captain - Why the heck are they man-race only anyway?
It was great. The pet is nice, and outfits made me happy for some reason. I tried weaponcrafting but realized it couldn't keep up with the PVE rewards, so I just rely on auction goods. Nifty L14 great sword acquired for 20 silvers. Very excited to log back in to test it out in Bree land.

I think I might spend some real money on release if I like it enough, so far I like the no pressure subscription model. I'm not sure why, but I felt cheated when I'm not playing a subbed MMORPG frequent enough, so this f2p is definitely picking up my interest. They could use a more 'uplifting' music tracks though, it's putting me to sleep constantly.

If you are in beta, you should have gotten some turbine points to spend/test the store out ETC.. Check the e-mail. But it may be that MMORPG.com keys did not come with this, the regular beta invites did.

[rk47]

yeah i got 1000 TP. Spent half of it on auction slot.

I tried out the rested XP book, but seems like a bad deal at that time. 5-6 bubbles of rested EXP doesn't seem like much for 35 TP at level 12.
1 char slot is brutal but i'm here to try stuff. Do they wipe after beta? If they do, I'll just turn myself into explorer craft vocation, the weaponsmith can't keep up with the level progression, and most of the time I just make throwing axes to pull mobs.

[Mrbloodworth]

That server is not a live server, so yes to the wipe. I also believe there is a bar "Eyesnguard?" that has level buffing NPC's in it.

[rk47]

OK. Very tempted to grab Moria full package for cheap at turbine site. But I'm going to dig more info on how the F2P model works.

Off the top of my head:
1. How much is 1000 TP to dollars?

2. If I wait for F2P, and purchase Moria later, do I miss out on anything good?

3. Champion or Captain? Disappointed Dwarves can't be captains, but I guess I'll be playing Man. Love the sword bonus.

[Zetor]

1. I think 100 TP is 1$, so 1000 TP would be 10$.

2. Moria is basically the warden + runekeeper classes (which you have to purchase separately after F2P), legendary items, and level 50-60 content. Depending on the amount of points for all of those (do you have to buy the moria zones separately or is it a package deal in the f2p shop?), it's probably worth to buy right now even if you don't plan on playing a warden (twitchy tank) or runekeeper (nuker/healer hybrid).

3. Champions can tank if needed (decent, but not as good at it as guardians or wardens), but their main purpose is aoe death... kind of like a WOW fury warrior with stances, rage (sorta) and all. Captains are low damage, high survivability and are good support characters, but really need a group to shine. This will change a bit with F2P since they're un-gimping the captain tank / dps trait lines. This also means captains will be able to tank OR heal OR dps (you will only excel at one of these at a time though) while having a lot of group-friendly skills.

I personally have a loremaster main and a captain alt. This way I can do dps/debuff/cc on my LM, and buffing/healing (after the patch, buffing/tanking!) on my captain, depending on what our group needs...

[Ingmar]

Champions are one of the two or three most overpopulated classes probably, so it might be harder to find a group slot. Not sure, I've never really tried. 

[rk47]

heheh, I tried Minstrel hobbit. I loved it. Drive by killing with lute is just too strong early game, I must've walked backwards while nuking anything I see on the way to the next quest giver.

[Mrbloodworth]

We talked about ports before. But I found a nice list.

Skills and Maps:
Basic Riding Trait 295
Return Enedwaith 295
Return Mirkwood 295
Return Bree 295
Return Michel Delving 295
Return Rivendell 295
Return Thorin's 295
Map W Bree 100
Map Lone-Lands 100
Map Hobbiton 100
Map Rivendell 100
Map Gharaf-Fehem 100
Map Thorin's 100
Map Emyn Lum 100
Map Echad Mirobel 100
Map Duillond 100
Map Esteldin 100
Map Misty Mtns 100
Map Eavespires 100
Map Hadudbab 100
Map N Barrowdowns 100
Map Ost Guruth 100
Map Mezer-Serej 100
Map Aughaire 100
Map Tinnudir 100
Map Echad Dunann 100
Map Suri-Kyla 100
Guide to Mirk-Eaves 695
Guide to Suri-Kyla 495
Guide to Ost Guruth 295
Guide to 21st Hall 695
Guide to Echad Dunann 595
Guide to East Angmar 495
Guide to West Angmar 495
Guide to Evendim 395
Muster in 21st Hall 695
Muster in Mirk-Eaves 695

Maps are one shot use.

Returns, Guides, & Musters are permanent skills that use Travel Rations. The guides are hunter skills though, but this removes the quest or rep required to use them. So, for about one dollar, you can get a one time use map to almost anywhere.

[Stormwaltz]

Return to Mirkwood seems awfully cheap for something that requires Malledhrim Kindred faction to get in game, plus another 20 barter tokens earned at a rate of two per day.

Screw the faction mounts, I'm all about my faction ports.

[Nebu]

Return to Mirkwood seems awfully cheap for something that requires Malledhrim Kindred faction to get in game, plus another 20 barter tokens earned at a rate of two per day.

Screw the faction mounts, I'm all about my faction ports.

Anything that reduces travel time will help the game gain subscribers.  I hope that there are many cheap ports.  They are sorely needed.

[Rishathra]

I believe there's also a temporary thing you can buy that makes all horse routes fast travel?  Not sure though.

[Azazel]

I like how they've seized on one of the suckiest aspects of the game as something to keep and monetise, rather than to fix. 

[rk47]

Yeah shit. I'm horrified too. But realized it's really what the game needs. Faster travel. More power to them. WoW to follow suit. $2.50 for extra hearthstone. CA-CHING!

[caladein]

I believe there's also a temporary thing you can buy that makes all horse routes fast travel?  Not sure though.

If you're thinking of the timed Swift Travel thing, that's not how it works (in Beta).  All it does is allow non-VIPs to use current Fast Travel routes like Thorin's Hall <-> West Bree.  It also apparently includes the Evendim boat, which is kind of .

At 150 points/hour, that's more than enough to make a lapsed subscription a non-starter for any serious playtime.

[Azazel]

You mean they otherwise have to sit on the horse for 45 minutes from Thorin's to Bree?

Yeha, that'll encourage the F2P players to spend their cash quit the game in droves.

[Zetor]

Yeah, wow... travel in lotro is bad enough as it is, now they'd go forward and make you PAY for swift travel?

Example: my main is now level 60 and bound in one of the Lothlorien towns (I haven't done the insane faction grind to enter the city yet, so I'm just outside). If I want to do some tailoring (such as for the time-limited tailor guild recipes), I need to get to a superior workbench. ATM my choices are
- Esteldin: right now I can get there relatively painlessly by using my racial teleport, walking ~50 meters, then taking a swift horse path. This is also good because I can turn in my tailor guild items on the spot.
- Thorim's Hall: Inaccessible (I don't have the rep to use this), but I could get here by using my racial Bree teleport, then the swift horse path.
- 21st hall: Accessible, but inconvenient (there is no swift travel available from lothlorien to 21st, and I haven't done the quests to unlock swift travel within moria itself, so it'd be ~15 minutes of downtime)
... and this is an "almost at endgame" character with a lot more options than someone who's just starting out and might not even have their racial teleport.

If I want to take a look at the AH too, I usually just take option 1 (racial port to bree) and take a swift horse path to southern bree to the AH or just ride there and hit up the bank vault on the way... though losing that is no big deal, I can just use an AH mule like most everyone else.

So... yeah. I really really really hope pay-to-swift-travel is not WAI and/or won't make it to live.


edit: come on, Evendim boat gated by this too? That was the only thing that made questing in western evendim bearable (and I've quested there both before and after the boat... before was "ok, I set autorun across the lake, time to tab out and browse random stuff on youtube for ten minutes")

[Azazel]

I don't know if they really get this, but a F2P game is going to be much easier to walk away from than one you've invested a pile of money and time into. And how many of us have already walked away from at least one longer-term game like EQ1/2/WoW/AC1/2/LOTRO/UO?

I mean, if you play LOTRO for a week or two, and get stuck on a looong fucking horse ride to Thorin's Hall or Bree more than a couple of times, will you really bother to stick around longer-term? DDO has a degree of uniqueness. LOTRO has a great IP, but is fundamentally EQWOW, but much slower and grindy than WoW, especially at lower levels. Do they really think they need to make it slower and more grindy?
 

[Tannhauser]

There is an insta-travel from Inner Caras Galadon to 21st Hall. Yes, you do have to raise your Lorien rep but for LOTRO it's a mild rep grind.
The longest travel time is Rivendell-Echad Mirobel which clocks in at almost 13 minutes.  Yeah, that needs to be fixed, but I can insta-travel from the center of Mirkwood-Inner Caras Galadon-21st Hall-Rivendell-lots of places in Eriador. 

The very first thing I'm going to buy at f2p is the fastest horse, but overall I'm content with the travel system.  It's a world dammit, not a Phantasy Star Onine game lobby!  You kids get off my lawn!

http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Middle-Earth_Traffic_Report

[rattran]

Uhh, the 'Insane' faction grind to open the main city in Lothlorien? 1 pass through all the faction quests. So, about 50-60 quests, some fedex, some killing orcs. I think I repeated the ones right outside Moria once for xp, but never repeated any of the Lorien ones, and I'm all buddy-buddy, grabbed the horse and moved on.

[Zetor]

Well yeah, it was hyperbole... mostly because I never got anywhere near it. After we finished the first 6 lothlorien quests, my guildies basically decided to ragequit on the spot. 

[as negative as these posts might sound, I actually like a lot of things about lotro and think it's a superior group-pve game to WOW; however, the long travel times, faction grinds, 1/2 of moria and lothlorien quest design are not in the aforementioned 'lot of things'...]

[Azazel]

There is an insta-travel from Inner Caras Galadon to 21st Hall. Yes, you do have to raise your Lorien rep but for LOTRO it's a mild rep grind.
The longest travel time is Rivendell-Echad Mirobel which clocks in at almost 13 minutes.  Yeah, that needs to be fixed, but I can insta-travel from the center of Mirkwood-Inner Caras Galadon-21st Hall-Rivendell-lots of places in Eriador. 

The very first thing I'm going to buy at f2p is the fastest horse, but overall I'm content with the travel system.  It's a world dammit, not a Phantasy Star Onine game lobby!  You kids get off my lawn!

http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Middle-Earth_Traffic_Report

World, schmorld. I've been there done that, played the grind Vanilla-EQ1 style and now that I'm all growed up, I don't feel I have the time to waste on notplaying for long periods while I sit on a horse travelling very slowly to the next place before I can play again.  Yeah, 2-3mins is a long period of non-interactivity in my book. There's plenty that go for longer than that. And we did the Rivendell-Mirrorball one a couple of times before we just bound there, and damn it sucked.

I'm more frustrated that the game is so filled with little things which piss off players that could be so easily fixed, and all it'd do would be to improve the game and make people want to play it more. Simple polish. 

[rk47]

Well. Once early F2P is up, I'll take a look...if it's THAT horrifying....I think I can squeeze a mild stretching exercise in between horse rides and making snacks. World is world, but you play a game to have fun, not to sit on horses.

[Reg]

I'll take a look but I think lack of fast travel might be a deal breaker for me.