F2P NDA is down. Dish.

[Mrbloodworth]

Travel times are comparable to other MMO's I have played, it could use more swift Travel, I'm just not getting where it so much longer compared to other games. Does it just seem faster if the horse is flying? :)

[Zetor]

Yeah, they're longer in lotro, which is why the removal of the free travel option baffles me (I won't pay $1 every time I want to craft something).

Just a simple example: the longest wow flightpath in the game (Booty Bay -> Silvermoon City) is just over 23 minutes; that is basically crossing over an entire continent and four capital cities (wow flightpath times are basically moot by the time you get flying mounts, especially the 280% ones... also everyone binds at dalaran even at level 1 so they can teleport to any of the 4 capital cities at will). The lotro traffic report only displays single horse ride info, which is not that useful (you wouldn't want to travel to trestlebridge from bree, you'd want to travel to esteldin or tinnudir)... has anyone measured how long it'd take to travel from, say, southern mirkwood to thorin's hall (remember, no fast horse options)? I think by adding up all those 'slow travel paths', that comes out to more than 1 hour, maybe even 1.5. :P

A few situations where you'd need to travel a lot off the top of my head:
- working on the book 1 epic quest: fair amount of back and forth between rivendell/trollshaws/misty mountains and N downs/angmar. I solved this by binding in rivendell and using the racial teleport + esteldin swift travel + angmar slow travel (afk) option.
- crafting anything that needs an advanced study / workbench
- visiting the AH or your crafter guild of choice
- the consignment quests that were mentioned a while ago
- switching questing zones (misty mountains -> angmar, forochel -> eregion or whatever)

[Stormwaltz]

Don't most people take the "fast travel" horse options?

[Mrbloodworth]

Your right I was not thinking of the multi-leg trips.

[Zetor]

Don't most people take the "fast travel" horse options?

Yes; we've been discussing the possibility (has this been confirmed either way, btw?) of them removing fast travel entirely and turning them into cash shop microtransactions.

edit: I did some digging, see below
thread 1
thread 2
thread 3
150 TP / hour cost [unofficially] confirmed at http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=347917

Yeahhhhhhh.... suddenly I'm about 70% less excited about lotro going f2p. /sadface

edit2: unfucked links

[Stormwaltz]

Okay, I hadn't heard about this, and I'm having trouble parsing the conversation in those links (I'm also having trouble with the forums loading). Is fast travel gone for everyone without using the store? Or do VIPs still have unlimited access?

[Zetor]

VIPs have unlimited access; Premium and free-to-play accounts do not. If you want to use swift travel and don't have an active VIP subscription, you have to unlock it for 1 hour by paying $1.50. Since I wasn't planning on playing constantly with a sub fee (rather off-and-on whenever the fancy strikes me and my guildies), this is kinda sorta really annoying.

[Mrbloodworth]

This is the first I have heard of it.

[Reg]

It might possibly be worth resubscribing just to get swift travel back but only if ALL of the bullshit faction grinds to get them are gone.

[Azazel]

I'm a lifetime sub/VIP so maybe I "shouldn't" care but the fact is that it's fucking stupid. They know they have a bunch of shitty grinds in the game, but instead of filing them down as I thought/hoped they would do to, you know, encourage more players to stay and spend their cash on cool stuff, like mounts and bank space and decorative outfits, they're just trying to cash-shop them. Pissed-off players who leave don't spend money.

Rep grinds, deed grinds were bad enough. Now they're gating the fast travel behind a ridiculous price - I mean, you might fast travel once from Zone A to Zone B. Then, I'd assume you want to play or quest. Not ride the horseway back and forth while you're on your 1-hour duration bus ticket.

[rk47]

Well. Not much I can do with playtime window and high travel time. They're making it tempting to sub. But...the game's whole package doesn't grab me at all from artstyle to combat response speed. Subbing to reduce tedium doesn't sound like a selling point to me.

[Nebu]

But...the game's whole package doesn't grab me at all from artstyle to combat response speed.

It's interesting to see this.  Art and combat pacing are the primary reasons that I'm enjoying the game.  I really enjoy the scenery, the book quests, and the large variety of abilities on my burglar.  I feel that every fight brings decisions about which tools to use and in which order.  It's like a fast paced turn-based game.

On the other hand, Playing WoW was fun as far as the game quality was concerned.  Sadly, the art direction was too cartoonish to capture my attention.  Also looking at my avatar for more than a few minutes was like a repeated stab to my face.  Shoulder pads much?

[rk47]

I do follow the epic quest most of the time , but man, the travelling in Lonelands get so ridiculous I gave up after finishing it. I can't seem to get into it after that, especially finding skirmishes made me lazy. Let's just stand around, do it 1-3 times , log off till I level up and spend tokens on something.

I think I suffered from the same problem in Warhammer scenario queue syndrome from T1 Nordenwatch to T2 Mourkaine Temple madness. I despise PVE, both me and a pal just queued like hell for scenarios when we logged in. Until the scenario in t3 became unpalatable, then I start to PVE some more to T4.

Skirmish / Instant action makes the world slightly smaller, but going back to exploration mode had too much 'busy doing nothing' mood to it, so maybe it's just me unable to find the right balance.

[Mrbloodworth]

I'm a lifetime sub/VIP so maybe I "shouldn't" care but the fact is that it's fucking stupid. They know they have a bunch of shitty grinds in the game, but instead of filing them down as I thought/hoped they would do to, you know, encourage more players to stay and spend their cash on cool stuff, like mounts and bank space and decorative outfits, they're just trying to cash-shop them. Pissed-off players who leave don't spend money.

Rep grinds, deed grinds were bad enough. Now they're gating the fast travel behind a ridiculous price - I mean, you might fast travel once from Zone A to Zone B. Then, I'd assume you want to play or quest. Not ride the horseway back and forth while you're on your 1-hour duration bus ticket.

So after looking last night. This isn't the case.

You do not need to use Turbine Points to purchase travel as a VIP (subscriber, lifetimer). If you do not currently have access to a swift travel route (reputation to low for example) you may use your points to unlock that ability for a period of time.

The only ones that do not have Swift travel are F2p people. The ability you buy (Freedom costs a buck-o-five) allows you to ignore ALL prerequisites of ANY swift travel location for an hour.

So, for instance if you have not been to the required stable at the other end, you can't use the swift route, buy the shop item, and you can, with the added bonus of now you don't have to run/ride out there to get the stable. Its actually quite a time save, for a buck fifty.

[Cheddar]

Thats not too shabby.  In an hour you can pretty much hit up most of the towns.  I like this.

[Nebu]

I do follow the epic quest most of the time , but man, the travelling in Lonelands get so ridiculous I gave up after finishing it. I can't seem to get into it after that, especially finding skirmishes made me lazy. Let's just stand around, do it 1-3 times , log off till I level up and spend tokens on something.

I agree completely with the back and forth travel issues.  I think they could be fixed easily with two things:

1) Give fast mounts at level 20.

2) Have more fast travel options at each stable.  I'm find if they're unlocks.

[Cheddar]

I do follow the epic quest most of the time , but man, the travelling in Lonelands get so ridiculous I gave up after finishing it. I can't seem to get into it after that, especially finding skirmishes made me lazy. Let's just stand around, do it 1-3 times , log off till I level up and spend tokens on something.

I agree completely with the back and forth travel issues.  I think they could be fixed easily with two things:

1) Give fast mounts at level 20.

2) Have more fast travel options at each stable.  I'm find if they're unlocks.

As of 9/8 you get a fast mount at 20.

[Reg]

I found having to unlock the wretched fast travel options to be a pain while I was a paid subscriber. I'm certainly not paying for a subscription just to indulge in the same tedious grind that's driven me away before.

I'm tired of being mister negative internet guy about this game. I think maybe it's just not for me.

[Zetor]

I'm a lifetime sub/VIP so maybe I "shouldn't" care but the fact is that it's fucking stupid. They know they have a bunch of shitty grinds in the game, but instead of filing them down as I thought/hoped they would do to, you know, encourage more players to stay and spend their cash on cool stuff, like mounts and bank space and decorative outfits, they're just trying to cash-shop them. Pissed-off players who leave don't spend money.

Rep grinds, deed grinds were bad enough. Now they're gating the fast travel behind a ridiculous price - I mean, you might fast travel once from Zone A to Zone B. Then, I'd assume you want to play or quest. Not ride the horseway back and forth while you're on your 1-hour duration bus ticket.

So after looking last night. This isn't the case.

You do not need to use Turbine Points to purchase travel as a VIP (subscriber, lifetimer). If you do not currently have access to a swift travel route (reputation to low for example) you may use your points to unlock that ability for a period of time.

The only ones that do not have Swift travel are F2p people. The ability you buy (Freedom costs a buck-o-five) allows you to ignore ALL prerequisites of ANY swift travel location for an hour.

So, for instance if you have not been to the required stable at the other end, you can't use the swift route, buy the shop item, and you can, with the added bonus of now you don't have to run/ride out there to get the stable. Its actually quite a time save, for a buck fifty.

You're misunderstanding what is being said (edit: I bolded the relevant part in your post). We were discussing how it affects the gameplay of the 'plebes' (f2p and premium players, ie. not subscribers / lifers); Azazel explicitly said he was a lifetimer so it doesn't affect him. Having huge timewaster cockblocks in your face is not going to get those people to sub (I know I am not going to waste a single TP on fast travel, eff that noise), it's going to get those people to stay away from the game or sit through the tedium (which will make them stay away from the game). Though granted, it is nowhere near as egregious as EQ2 (hey look, popup ads and you're locked out of most of the game!) and Allods (we increased xp-to-level to make the game more immersive, honest. BTW xp scrolls are available from the cash store!).

Maybe I'm doomcasting, but it's a really big bomb to drop in an otherwise good-looking F2P/freemium arrangement. /shrug

[Mrbloodworth]

You're misunderstanding what is being said

I guess I am.

[Rasix]

But...the game's whole package doesn't grab me at all from artstyle to combat response speed.

It's interesting to see this.

Probably one of the top reasons I don't play.  My current rig doesn't like LOTRO so the settings I have it on, while still taxing my system, have it looking abysmal.  The combat speed has always just felt "wrong".

Class design, however, is the primary reason I stay away.  I don't like a single one of them.

[Yegolev]

2) Have more fast travel options at each stable.  I'm find if they're unlocks.

My solution here would be to allow a direct route from racial hubs to ANY stable you have visited.  Yes, the menu would be huge but then I would not have to try to remember if I can get from W. Bree to Trestlebridge to Tinnudir and end up wasting time by guessing incorrectly.

[Soln]

FYI it seems they are not allowing transfers to Elendilmir, Brandywine or Landroval.  Pity I would've played and joined you guys.

http://www.lotro.com/component/content/article/378-world-character-transfer-faq

[Modern Angel]

Brandywine is pretty packed when everyone's on for new content. Not surprised they're disallowing transfers.

[Azazel]

Friend is telling me that they already bumped up the price of the shared bank space or some such. I'd have actually bought them if they'd given me my fucking turbine points when they were supposed to.

[Zetor]

Yep, they did a major price hike on day 1 on pretty much everything (swift travel for 1 hour is reportedly up to $2.50 now. If you're pulling something like that, might as well go all out I guess :P). I haven't gotten my points either. This all doesn't make me want to spend RL money in the store, btw.

[caladein]

Friend is telling me that they already bumped up the price of the shared bank space or some such. I'd have actually bought them if they'd given me my fucking turbine points when they were supposed to.

The prices are different, yeah.

Both Shared Storage and Wardrobe are 695 points per 10 extra slots now, but in Beta the former was 995 after the first 20 and the latter 595 for the second 10 and 495 after.  I'm guessing the prices on Wardrobe slots went up since you now get a base of 20 instead of 10.

The fast (i.e. only) Goat and Slayer Deed Accelerators are also cheaper now looking at the old price list.

[Azazel]

No - not since Beta - since the "early bird for VIP" launch. Two and a half days ago. 

This shit doesn't make me want to play their game at all anymore, quite frankly.

[caladein]

Hmm.  My last order of slots was Friday morning (~4am EDT) so they had to have changed the prices within eight hours or so from looking at the forum threads.  That's pretty fucking lame.

Even if it was a "sale" it wasn't publicized at all (like this weekend's) and they still had all those store problems going on.    indeed.

[Modern Angel]

Yeah, that's pretty shit. Someone was complaining about the hike on the forums, specifically the wardrobe. Said it was to the tune of 80 bucks to get a fully upgraded wardrobe.

[Tannhauser]

My understanding is that there was a sale and now it's over.

[AlteredOne]

Apparently this weekend there was a bug where Turbine Points were simply disappearing.  I lost 200, friends lost 1k or so.  It didn't really bother me terribly much since I'm Lifetime and those were some of my "free" 4600 points.  But if I'd paid cash to buy those points, I expect my attitude would be a bit different...

[Yegolev]

The confusion comes from having a Day One Sale that wasn't really publicized.

[Kitsune]

The shared wardrobe slot thing is on sale now for 795 instead of 995.

[Stormwaltz]

The shared wardrobe slot thing is on sale now for 795 instead of 995.

Only the first unlock. There are multiple ones. I believe it goes up in price each time, but I'd have to log in to be sure.