f13.net

Same thing.

Picked up Zelda and Trauma Center. Bought SimCity (SNES) and Soloman's Key (NES) on the VC. Obviously, Wii Sports came with it. Could not get a classic controller. Totally burned by the option of turning on Widescreen or leaving it at 4:3, but not able to buy component cables.

I had the option of naming Link and his horse in Zelda, I named them Wander and Aggro (bonus points if you get it - and if you've seen the new Zelda, you'll understand why).

I have beaten the first 4 operations in Trauma Center. Wiimake indeed, but looks to be really good assuming I get decent with the Wiimote.

The Nunchuk (what they call it, why leave out a letter?) attachments feels like a $5 toy you would pick up at KB Toys. The Wiimote is a solid piece of equipment. The lightness in my left hand feels really strange when I've got a one pound controller in my right hand.

Looks like total dick through composite, I'm almost willing to hold off a review until I get component cables.

If they get third party support, they might have something here, but anyway - questions. FIGHT!

How many titles available on the VC?  Just a handful or a pretty good collection?

-Q

I just looked at it about an hour ago, I remember the following:

Donkey Kong 500
Altered Beast 800
Mario 64 1000
Mario Bros 500
Legend of Zelda 500
SimCity 800
Soloman's Key 500

That's about it. It's a mixed bag, and IMO - they're charging too much. Nintendo games should've been $2-3 instead of $5. SNES and Genesis should have been $5. N64 should have been, at most, $7.

Is paying for virtual console stuff done through credit card I'd assume, or is it some card you buy at the store?

Comparisons to Shadows aside, how is the new Zelda game?  Does the controller use feel forced?

Card online and card in store.

Controller use, thus far, should not have been made a necessity. Having played Trauma Center, I can see where the controller opens up new gameplay possibilities. One of my roommates watched me play a bit and said that it is fundamentally different. He might be right. But thus far, it also feels like the newer Zelda titles rather than a throwback to pre-N64. And since I like the earlier stuff a whole hell of a lot more, I may just be pissed that the sort of raw gameplay experience I'm looking for has been thrown out the window.

Eh.  Oldschool-style Zelda games are still made for the portables(unless phantom hourglass fucks that all up).  Any games actually using 720p right now so I can decide on whether or not I need the component immediately?

Edit: oh yeah.  Are the online "forums" a cesspool of faggery yet?

No Super Monkey Ball?

There are no "online forums." One of the things I'm going to gripe about is the pitiful, awful, lie that was Connect 24. What a crock of dick. It's not 720p I care about. Wii doesn't output 720p, that was a lie also. Max output is 480p. 480i looks so fucking terrible though that the upgrade to 480p through component will make the wii jump from RF to HDMI. Composite 480i gaming on a 37" LCD is a joke.

No Super Monkey Ball. Never enjoyed it. I love me some Marble Madness though.

So wiichat is really just a limited chat room like the DS has?

What are the load times like?

Wiichat isn't even available yet. The only things available are Wii Weather and oh, wait, nevermind those things aren't working either. They're just logos.

For all the trash talking that went on, Nintendo was, by far, the least prepared for this launch. I patched 3 times before I even got to play a game. It's a fucking mess. But hey, no one gives a shit. They have Zelda.

Ahh.  Like an mmo launch.

Chatting would be completely impossible with the Wiimote anyway. Inputting text with that pointer might be worse than using a D-Pad. Nay, an analog stick. Seriously, I'd rather use the PSP nub.

For all the shit Nintendo got right, they sure did flub enough. I mean, here's my problem. You can find information about PS3 problems everywhere. Even I have my handful of concerns that are irking at me. But for the Wii, it's only getting good press. Well, Nintendo overlooked some REALLY rudimentary shit. Like a Start button. Find me a start button. Also, what the fuck are the 1 & 2 buttons? And there is no way Nintendo can claim the Wiimote is more easy to use than a controller. I have 25 yeras of controller use. I have zero days, 2 hours of Wiimote use and gotta tell ya, that shit is sensitive - and I have the sensitivity turned way down.

Really, I don't even know where to begin. But I do know that the Nintendo component cables cost $29.99 and the component cables from MadCatz cost $49.99. In what world is that ok? Oh, and of course Gamestop is stocking the MadCatz ones a week before.

Madcatz cables are more expensive?  What the fuck.

See, my gripes about Sony pertain more to things like "they couldn't get development kits to devs early enough to have a decent launch." Meanwhile my gripes about Nintendo are "HEY GUYZ, WAY TO FUCK UP SOMETHING EASY, LIKE CABLES AND CONTROLLER SHIPMENTS."

Quite honestly, the Ninty one pisses me off more. Sony went with standard equipment and backwards compatibility on accessories (my PS2 component cables work on it - and it's a multisystem madcatz pos). Meanwhile, Ninty went with all sorts of proprietary shit and screwed the pooch. Weak.

Good to hear my ps2 component cables won't become trash when I upgrade.  I'm wondering if Nintendo underanticipated just how popular extra controllers and cables would be, or they just plain couldn't ship enough for the demand.  Well, about the controllers anyways, since we know they aren't worried about HD.

Still, the wait remains unbearable.  If EBgames hadn't royally fucked up I'd be getting my zelda on right this moment.  Looking forward to Elebits too.

Ours failed at the Languange Selection screen.  The system hangs, currently trying to find a solution.

Wii Sports tennis is fun. Just don't play near a floor lamp.

Schild, or anyone,

Can some one talk about how the Wii online features stand up to the Xbox Live, like friends list and ease of inviting people to game and shit like that. Also, does it come with built in wireless network card, I totally forgot to check this. And did anyone get RedSteel?

The Wii online features are trash. I don't know how else to say this. And I'm being nice.

It comes with wireless. The online strategy is basically roll-your-own per game, I don't think there is any umbrella system.

I have a friend code, it's not as cool as "schild" but it's a bunch of numbers! So, fun!

Wii Launch - The Anti-PS3 Experience (http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/TheFeed/date/11192006/index.html#667677)
I put my helmet on before posting this here... since there's usually so much love for G4.  :mob:

I love to here stuff like this, even if I'm not a fan of the source.

Too bad the moment they get home and back on the internet, Nintendo fans are the equivilent of Apple fans.

Stupid comment, first of all.

Besides that, the hype came from the success of their last two products, not Sony's PS3 marketing effort specifically. They made the last two great consoles. Nintendo, unfortunately, did not.

Nintendo must be pretty happy, having far more consoles available that Sony but still managing to sell them out, in addition to actually making a profit out of the exercise.

PS3's more my speed, but I think Nintendo is bloody brilliant here:  cheaper (and profitable!), another Zelda for the diehard fans, funky new controller getting a lot of buzz, lots of units to move over the holidays, incremental improvements in CPU/GPU/memory keep cost down and make development and backward compatibility simple.  Letting Microsoft and Sony fight it out over the high end and to see who can lose the most money on hardware is plenty clever.

- Q

Sony's fault here doesn't lie in any sort of marketing, just sheer incompetence.

PLAYSTATION 3: Spring 2006
PLAYSTATION 3: Oops, did we say spring?  We meant 'sometime'.
PLAYSTATION 3: Oops, did we say there'd be millions of them?  We meant twelve.

In most of the reports I saw of PS3 crowds getting ugly, it invariably involved, 'The store told us they'd get fifty, but late that night they said they only got twenty.'  When someone's been sitting out in the cold for eight or so hours, thinking they're a sure-fire winner, only to be told that because Sony couldn't actually build the console they are getting squat, they're going to get pissed off.  Ditto for someone who had a pre-order and finds out that they weren't going to get the thing.

Not being able to meet the distribution amount that they apparently told the stores to expect is 100% Sony's own damn fault.

That being said, you know it was more than likely scalpers who were starting shit.  A gamer denied a system they want would be upset, but they can always get it later.  A scalper who doesn't get the system while it's hot is out a few hundred bucks, and likely won't get another chance to get a console to pop on eBay before the season's over.  Add that to the fact that scalpers are scum and you get the recipe for cops having to pepper gas a crowd.

Wii.  Early Christmas for me - the wife decided she wanted to get me one.  However, since she can't keep a secret (she usually has to send my presents to family/friends to avoid giving them to me even if I say I don't want them early) and couldn't figure out how to hide being gone for six hours, she went ahead and spilled it.  It's up and running now.  Wii.

We got Wii Sports of course, Zelda, Trauma Center, and Red Steel.  I haven't gotten to Zelda yet, so can't speak to it.  To start off though, Wii Sports is fun.  It is by no means complex.  In baseball for example, you only pitch and catch - fielding is automatic, no stealing bases, etc.  While you can select your club in golf, you only get putter, wedge, iron, and driver.  Tennis is doubles, with only one surface.  Still, this isn't the point - it's a party game, not "Tiger Woods Golf", and for that it's a blast.  It's all about getting the timing down, which isn't as easy as I'd hoped for.  Golf in particular made a point of being picky about how the Wiimote handled, but after an hour or so we were getting the hang of it.  It doesn't have a natural feel, but we didn't feel like we were fighting it either.

Red Steel seems to be fairly vanilla.  You get a mix of guns and a sword, but it's obvious when you use each since every so often a Japanese guy with a sword runs up to you, and you dutifully put away your gun.  There's a little bit of reflex involved to win a sword fight, but overall it seems very uninspired.  Other than that, this is a standard first person killfest.  The room layouts are good, with lots of hiding places to hide yourself and badguys behind, and alternating constricting corridors and open arenas with multiple points to get flanked on.  The Wiimote again didn't feel quite as natural as I'd have hoped, but after a bit I got the hang of it and was getting a few trigger pulls before the baddies.  I don't think it will ever be easier than a mouse (ask again in a few months though), but FPS games are going to be MUCH more fun. 

If Red Steel had come out on the PC or 360/PS3 it would have bombed.  On the Wii, it's fun.  Using the Wiimote to target requires more skill than a mouse, but is easier than using an analog stick.  Even in the Wii Sports baseball for example, I can see where there is much more opportunity for fun play by using this over just timing your "A" to swing.  I'd give the Wiimote a "B" - it seems to have some quirks, but I think Nintendo came very close to where they wanted to be with it.

As for online stuff, news and weather aren't active yet, and I haven't setup an account to look at the game listings.  Oh, and the Wiimote comes with a wrist strap.  Use it.

The first thing my friend did when he played the Wii for the first time (bowling) was take two steps towards the TV and swing his arm forward as we all screamed at him not to put his hand right into the front of the screen.

Make sure you wear that wrist strap!

My impressions:  Put a Wiimote cover on my controllers which gives em a great feel.

Grabbed Zelda, Excitetruck, Call of Duty 3, and Monkey Ball.

Haven't touched Zelda yet, and I am one of the many people with wireless net connection issues making it so I can't rock the online stuff.

The Wiimote KICKS ASS.  It definately takes getting used to.  But the immersion factor, the exercise you get using it and the accuracy its capable of makes up for it.

Excite Truck: Its like an offroad Burnout.  Its almost TOO FAST.  Control is tight.

Wii Sports: Its simple, but its a blast.  I wish my dad was still alive.  He used to love bowling.  He would probably love a good round of bowling. :( 

Call of Duty 3.  It looks almost like CoD2 did on the 360.  Except its more fun and control is solid.  Fighting in hand to hand is very intense.

Monkey Ball:  LOTS of minigames.  Some of em will be good, others not so much.  Solo mode is gonna require me to completely relearn how to play the game though.

As to the mention of graphics:  I think it looks pretty on my 28 inch normal 480i square TV.

So far outside of my net connection issues I am VERY happy with this system.  I have a feeling the PS3 might not  be the king this generation.  Wii already outnumbers it in US owners by a good 4 to 1 margin if not more.  (Walmart PS3s: 4.  Walmart Wiis: 20.  Best Buy PS3s: 34  Best Buy Wiis: 84.  It sold out everywhere and the lines were full of great people.  And the more folks see how awesome the Wii is, the bigger its gonna get.

Eh, not a very good standard to judge by.  I'll wait 'til I hear from someone with an HDTV who bought component cables.

I find Jain Zar's comments a little weird. I thought Excite Truck was slow and unwieldy. Call of Duty Wii looks nowhere near as good as CoD2 on the 360 if you were running 1080i. The Wiimote is kinda reminding me of the powerglove due to some dead zones (when you get too far above or below the bar it would seem, going outside of the range of motion or whatever).

I can say this, very few games will get the Wiimote right. The ones that do will be great. The ones that don't will be many.

Jain's comments are only odd if you don't have an regular TV.

I understand where he's coming from, and am glad to see the good report.

An  hdtv is three years away in this household. It's just not considered a must have. But thanks to the rest of you for driving the prices down ;)

Go, buy more. I want to buy my 42 inch plasma for $500 when we get around to it.

And thank you for that smug sense of superiority I get every time I see one of you plebeians with your sorry little cathode ray tubes.   :evil:

Superior is relative.

I've seen enough high def TVs to know that I can personally wait until our current big screen fails. Some people can't, or don't want to. Good for them.

I can see that the Wii's got some issues, but the resolution / no included component cables isn't much of one for me.

We'll still pick one up if for no other reason than the virtual console.


Now, who's got a hands on of Madden 07?

I would have never upgraded to HD if my previous TV hadn't burned out. Now that I have one though, I wouldn't go back.

Same for me

I'm sure it will be the same for me, but I've seen HD. it's nice, but I'm not swapping gear for it. I'll upgrade when this  one fails.

Then you don't love beauty.

Hi-def makes gaming more fun.

I call bullshit on all that. Shiny smooth graphics do :not: make a game intrinsically  more fun. If that was the case, the  the PS3's launch library wouldn't be the enormous load of ass that it is.

Nintendo  should have been a little more forthcoming on the component cables for you folks, but it's a non issue for most people who are buying it.



Think about this, someone, somewhere will be using a ps/3 with an RF adapter :P

No doubt the same guy who paid 15k for one. Ironically enough.

Q: When are they getting more in Phoenix?

I wrote my first impressions on my blog. Totally positive.

I have not gotten online yet, and am in no hurry. I'll have to buy one of those $40 dongle things for my computer to do so, and I'd rather buy another Wiimote. But my experience was all butter. Zelda is the shiznit, and I should be getting Red Steel and Call of Duty 3 in the Gameznflix shipment today or tomorrow.

To the people who bought a PS3... LOLCOPTER. Enjoy your Hi-Def wallet raping void and your frigid hours-long waits. The Wii is pure fun and much less trouble.

In 3 years when I'm buying the new Hi-Def Nintendo console to go with my Hi-Def TV, I'll think back on the complaints about component cables and get a hearty chuckle.

It's about the games people. Sony is no one to scoff at in that respect. Sooner or later.

We should all hug.

Funny, given the number of patches the Wii required out of the box, especially if you wanted VC stuff, it took about twice as long to get into a game as it did on the PS3.

Whereabouts are you in Phoenix. I can probably help. You might have to meet me though. /disfigurednotreallythoughinternet

It's a trap!   Don't you watch Dataline?

I'm in Tempe. I was going to hit up the local Targets and Costcos but I doubt they have any left.

It's not super urgent for me but I'd like to have one at some point in the near future. I was under the impression that Nintendo was going to be resupplying pretty quick, if that's not the case I might have to start looking a bit harder.

lol

How do you feel about Black Friday?

Going to be in San Diego. Appreciate the help though. I'll just have to hold out a bit longer I suppose.

I needed no patches for Zelda. I'm not even connected to the Internet with it, and I'm quite sure my experience will be more common than yours when it comes to opening the system.

The wii is the ultimate party system. Played many hours yesterday at a friends house, and people were more interested in it than the football games. They have the sunday ticket package with 3x HDTVs showing football games in different rooms, along with an awesome pool table and a nearly full bar. The Wii drawing more attention than football/etc says a lot in an atmosphere like that.

I only played wii sports and Rampage, but I was holding my 9 month old the entire time. I was able to win 4 player rounds of rampage while holding a baby, walking around the room. That's technology right there.

We got up at 5 to get in line at the store that opens at 7, and I was #17 in line for the 18 units they were gettting (we had split up just in case). It didn't rain, and it wasn't windy. We had coffee and genuinely nice people in line with us. We were all excited to get Zelda and go home and play!

I have never gotten in line for anything, but as far as being communist Russia goes, it was pretty painless.

btw, Sauced figured out the problem with the Language Select screen - it was early and not enough sleep and a cord just hadn't gotten plugged in. Oopsie! But we had a lot of fun setting up our Miis and making a Mii to resemble each of our out-of-town friends. Now we can see Danno and Christy walking around as little cartoons on our teevee! Yay!

My forearm is really sore today - I'm thinking of picking up some wrist weights to make this actually like exercise.

Picked up my preorder yesterday morning at 8am.  Got home, set it up (including making Miis for each of us and setting them to "travel mode" whatever the fuck that is), and the kids have dominated it since.   They are now at school, so I'm going to go play with it.

Noticed the online thing - other than ordering new games (got Donkey Kong, Sim City and Super Mario 64) - is not working.  Looking forward to it working.

I like the Wii-mote - although it seems sensitive, I'm sure I'll get used to it sooner rather than later.

schild:  You don't need to patch to play.  Out of the box, toss in a game and play.  I think it fusses at you about patching if you try to get online, but the whole thing is quick over broadband and automated. 

Haemish:  When you get them, play Red Steel first.  It got a 5.5 on Gamespot for good reason.  It's still cool just because the Wiimote is cool, but I think if play CoD3 and go back to RS, you'll lose interest.  Let us know how CoD3 plays though.

Wanted to play SimCity out of the box. Didn't really want to play stuff that should be 480p without the Component cables. Still don't. I thought it would be automated. Turns out you have to press buttons at the beginning and end. I only realized this after I sat outside for 30 minutes with one of my roommates to find that nothing had happened.

See, it's not that I'm knocking the system. The system (short of friend codes and the complete lack of anything remotely resembling a "Connect24" service) is fine. It's a Ninty system. It gets the job done. I'm knocking the process compared to the PS3. The PS3 update was faster, more automated, and altogether cleaner. Adding friends is easier. Doing almost anything on the PS3 is easy. It's odd, I thought of the 3 systems, the PS3 would be the most annoying to work with. Turns out it's the least annoying. I'd say the 360 is the most annoying simply because of the massive number of menus. They're all easy to navigate - but each has its annoyances. We're talking base-level decisions that should have resulted in delaying the systems.

Everything that doesn't involve just putting a game in and playing on a Wii (or making a Mii) is just half-baked to me. Nintendo doesn't understand online services. I hope they get this shit straightened out by the time SSBB comes out.

Don't worry, I have lots of complaints for the PS3. And they're completely different than the ones for the Wii. IMO, neither Nintendo or Sony were ready to put out a new system and Microsoft managed - SOMEHOW - to get it absolutely right. 110% right in fact compared to these two units. The 360 launch had shipment issues, and a mediocre launch lineup, but everything they promised within 3 months of the launch was delivered and working perfectly. They've even gotten Live patches out when they said they would.

Sony on the other hand has said nothing about the 1080i issue. Nintendo kept friend codes and has not delivered on Connect24. These are not minor issues. Unfortunately, I can get over the 1080i thing because my set does 720p as well. The friend code shit and half-baked online service with the Wii I can not get over so easily though.

Got Wii, extra controller, nunchuck and Zelda yesterday morning, local Best Buy had 63.  Showed up approximately 3 hours early and had no problems.  If I had waited 15 minutes later there would have been.

Got home plugged into our 54' HD DLP.  Thought I'd make sure everything worked before I got around to the Mii stuff, updating and the like.  Still haven't done it, hell haven't even properly set up the wii motes yet.  Just synched the new one and set location of sensor bar. 

Wii Sports is simple but absolute fun, watching two players box is hilarious, they bob, weave and duck punches.  Golf is a tad bit aggravating from time to time on the finesse shots but not a game killer.  Tennis is probably my favorite.

Zelda sans HD is fine.  I'll pick up the cables in the future I'm sure but no rush.  Proof that more polygons does not mean more fun.

I'll pick up a couple more titles, cables and stuff in the next week or two.  Out of the box there are no outside the box must haves before you can play.

I'm hoping either nintendo or 3rd parties come up with some wieghted controllers and nunchucks.



 

Gamespot getting their shit together? That was their response to fanbois complaining about anything less than a 9.8.

There are a few third-party guys coming up with peripherals you place your Wiimote in, like a driving wheel and such. Those things will be totally unnecessary, but probably add to the games.

That complaint seems pretty silly to me. People expect a Zelda game. Of course you get heart container pieces and such. It certainly isn't the same game as the SNES Zeldas, but I would expect it to be similar to the N64 ones. It's a sequel. Can't you say the same thing about Dead or Alive, Mortal Combat, Doom, Unreal Tournament, every realistic WW2 shooter, etc etc?

I think that complaint can have some merits like Sonic 3 being a longer, more boring version of Sonic 2. When you just redesign some levels and call it a new game that is pretty weak, but I can think of many franchises where that applies much more than Zelda. Smackdown vs. Raw this year is basically the same as last year with messed up commentary, fewer CAW options, a ton of deleted moves, glitches, deleted match types - by that logic it deserves a 5.

---

Anyway Wii sports is awesome, looking forward to playing it with 4 people. It *is* a great have friends over sort of game.

Gamespot gave Deus Ex an 8.2.  Some of their reviews for what are considered great games are less than outstanding (I'm not calling Zelda a great one, never played it).

If you read the review, they actually liked the game but expected something revolutionary out of a Zelda game.  Dumbasses.  They're complaints about some of the "revolutionary" Wii features seems pretty justified and common sensical.

The review specifically said water dungeon.  So.. uhh.. I may be skipping this one. 

Dude, you've been bagging on Nintendo since we lived in the SCC. I know you hated OoT, which everybody else thinks is one of the greatest games ever, because we had that argument back when we couldn't wait to see how awesome the Matrix sequel was going to be. I'm surprised you even bought it.

I don't know how you can quote the Gamespot crankiness about the Zelda series's "ossification" when you think the whole thing should still be in 2D, though. Frankly, Gamespot may be right. Ocarina is as old now as Link to the Past was when Ocarina came out, and it's time for another radical revamp. But, in defense of Twilight Princess, it's built as a Gamecube title, and when they actually do a real, ground-up Wii Zelda, it will probably answer all those issues and do some innovative stuff with the controller. It sounds like that's happening with Mario.

What I want to know is when they will give us a new "Wave Race?"

Actually, the real review complained about diffrent things, at least the video review. The wiimote was just a very unresponsive button, just forced on. And they found it cheap that there was no voice acting, and that it was still the same sample based sound track. They did mention that it wasn't very original as well though. Sure enough, a Zelda game should be a Zelda game, but there's a thin line between sticking true to the formula and just doing what EA does, add a few months of development and slap a new label on it.

No voice acting is a huge plus in my book. Real voices get old fast even when they are good.

Gosh. It's almost gotten to the point where I can't stand games without voice acting. I don't even care if it's great or not. Just so long as it's not foreign (unless that's the character's schtick, of course). I want a multimedia experience. I'm not fucking playing Zork.

I don't like voice acting, in part because I can read a lot faster than voice acting can act. REALLY REALLY good voice acting is ok I guess, but otherwise I just don't care at all.

Now if your game has a lot of CGI cut-scenes doing them without any voice acting would be a bit odd, but for something like Zelda I don't really care at all. I can't imagine Link actually speaking with a real voice, I'm sure people would immediately complain that he didn't sound like they thought he would...

I've never understood the knock on Nintendo for making "unoriginal" sequels. Nintendo makes plenty of original games and when they stray from formula people complain. In addition they don't pump out a new version every year.

Look at how many Resident Evil games there have been compared to Zelda games in the same time period. (Not counting portable versions)

OOT
Majora's Mask
Windwaker
(Four swords - not sure I would count this)

vs.

Resident Evil
RE 2
RE 3
RE: Zero
RE: Online
RE: Online 2
RE: Remake
RE: Code Veronica
RE: 4


And Resident Evil had pretty crappy core gameplay up until 4. For a series like RE I can totally understand someone saying "man, this game really needs an update" given that before 4 came out it had barely changed at all over 8 or so games. Or in the Sonic days where you had Sonic, Sonic 2, Sonic 3, Sonic and Knuckles and Sonic CD all in the same time period.

Whoa there partner. You're fucking with the wrong series there. RE has been trying to (failing, but trying to) tell a cohesive story. Zelda reinvents the same story every time. Try comparing it to FF1-XII or something. But not RE. RE reinvented itself. All Zelda has done is gone 3d (that is not me leaving the barn open for an attack, I am not arguing that Zelda doesn't have some of the best dungeon design in the history of gaming). I'm saying the basic premise of Zelda did not change on the shift to 3D and it hasn't changed with Twilight Princess. RE4 changed radically. The fundamental gameplay shifted an ENTIRE GENRE. Zelda is still the baseline action RPG.

The series aren't alike and can't really be compared. Not even in their story structure.

My point is that before RE4 all the REs played basically the same way. I'm not saying RE is a bad game, I like RE. But if you want to complain about games re-using the same thing over and over that is the perfect example. Same weapons, same basic gameplay, etc. Up to 4 RE is basically one or two games + 6 expansion packs. Find the white chess piece or the heart-key or whatever...

You can tell a cohesive story without having the exact same gameplay over and over again. But that isn't even my point. My point is that "hey, this sure is a lot like the rest of the games in this series" apply to a whole lot of games, and many of them much more than Zelda or other Nintendo games.

Many of the Nintendo games are key parts of my childhood. I loved them like siblings. They have not grown up with me. I thought, maybe, Twilight Princess would do that. But the moment Gamespot said what they said, I realized I was kidding myself. Throwing in a new controller does not make a paradigm shift. RE4 on the other hand grew up within a console generation. Short of tightening it, Capcom may have very well created what is the single best way to play a survival horror title. Zelda, at a base level is tight and polished like a Blizzard game. But much like WoW, it offers me positively nothing new. Not in story, gameplay, or anything else. It's Zelda - again. I'm not saying that's a bad thing for most people, especially people who want Zelda again.

But as Litigator said, 2D is Zelda to me. I can go back and get the same experience people are getting now with Twilight Princess. LttP does not feel dated to me. It is timeless.

Having played RE4, it is very fucking hard to go back to the old RE titles. VERY HARD. As I said, RE reinvented itself within  ONE console generation. This is the fourth generation since the SNES came out and we're still playing the exact same Zelda - rendered in 3D! They may as well have recreated LttP in 3D.

RE had to reinvent itself because it had churned out the same game over half a dozen times during the ps1/2 era, not even getting into Dino Crisis which used the same gameplay.  People were loosing interest in the series fast.  On the Zelda side, there's been three games in the modern Zelda era that started with OOT, and a lot of people didn't care for the art style of Wind Waker.  The series doesn't have to reinvent itself quite yet because unlike most PS franchises, fans haven't had the same rehashed games shoved down their throats every year or two.

edit: 
And yet you loved FFXII, which is a good game but in my eyes is part of a series that epitomizes not growing up with the audience.  And no, throwing in some MMO trappings into the gameplay doesn't equal growing up.

Odd, I hated VIII through X-2. I thought the structure and story in FFXII was pretty grown up comparatively.

FFXII had some of the weakest characterization in the series, and the story treaded water in order to have excuses to send you from "dungeon" to "dungeon".  The result was a terribly paced story with characters that could be described in totality by two sentences or less each.  If there was ever a series that needed complete and total reinventing, it's FF.

I've heard quite a few people complain that there was simply not enough story in FF XII. In particular, quite a few people wanted some sort of romance story arc.

I can't comment on the totality of the game as I'm only a few hours into it, but when I see how Vaan interacts with Panelo, and I am told that "That's pretty much it between them," I can see how that might be a problem.

No, quite honestly, there isn't enough story.  It leaves me wanting more.  A lot happens, but at the same time, I'm near the end and I can hardly believe it.

I like the characters.  I like the interactions of Vaan, Ashe, Penelo, Fran, Basche... I'm almost glad they didn't drum up an awkward romance between Vaan/Ashe or Ashe/Baltheir.. etc.  You have the feeling that the urgency of what they're doing has no time for romance and that one wouldn't naturally develop between the characters they've chosen. Hey.. it spares me another FFX "laughing" scene. At no point in this story have I cringed at the bad writing or bad acting (well, kinda.. one scene near the end was sloppily written).     

They did develop the supporting cast rather well.  Some of the more poignant moments in the game comes from characters other than the main.

Still, I could have used more of everything story wise.  Especially since what is present is, IMO, of high quality and a lot more mature than what we've seen from this series. Common, that one scene with Gabranth you'd expect to come form the pen of someone like George RR Martin.. not the FF writing crew.

Part of the abbreviated nature could be from the sidequests being in step with the main plot, dragging you from it for great chunks of time.  Another could be the introductory period for this game is seriously 5-6 hours long.  Still, I thought I had 10 hours or more to go and the end has just snuck up on me.

Story problems aside, it's my favorite FF since 6.

So far, I feel FF 7 was more engaging from the get-go. Actually, me and a buddy were discussing this, so he decided he needed another run through 7. Maybe it's nostalgia, but they get you going in the story much more quickly in 7.

Also, we were laughing at the character models, though the pre-rendered backgrounds still hold up fairly well. I still believe there is something to be said for pre-rendered stuff over full 3D.

Zelda, FF, and RE have all been fairly close within their respective series.  FF is a story-driven RPG.  RE is a survival horror.  Zelda is a dungeon crawl to save the kingdom/princess.  At various times, they each have gotten better and worse with respect to hitting the mark for what defines them, but you won't see RE turn into a story-driven RPG or Zelda into a survival horror.  That would be "reinventing themselves". 

The RE4 is so great is because they finally had everything come together: the story, controls, monster timing, graphics.  Ok, the story was about plagas instead of Umbrella's biochems, but that's just a name.  It's madlib, just with a different author this go 'round.  It worked this time because it all came together "just right", but it is not fundamentally different from the original RE.  FF(any) is fundamentally different from RE4:  RE4 is just an updated and greatly improved version of RE.  Same thing with FF VII (for me it was the US release of FFII), or LttP on SNES.  When it all comes together just right, you know it. 

Twilight Princess?  Well, I've only played it for a few hours last night, but I'd say the gamespot score of 8.8 is about right.  Granted I'm only a few hours in, but it isn't registering that AHA! moment that I've gotten with other games.  It's *good*, and if you're getting a Wii you don't want to miss out.  They aren't making much use of the Wiimote features, but it's not getting in the way either.  I do wish there was voice acting - games feel amiss without it anymore, but Nintendo seems to want to avoid having ANY of their mainline characters speak (Samus, Mario, Link).  I wish they'd get over it.  The camera controls aren't where I'd want them to be.  There's nothing really wrong with them, it's just that they're not perfect.  The use of the Wiimote is decent, just not as cool as it could've been.  The story seems weaker than it should be, but again it's not bad.

Everything just feels "B"ish to me.  It's all good, but you'd expect it to be great.  If I'm dissapointed it's not because the game isn't fun (it's one of the better games out there, imo), but because I'd expect it to at least be on par with Paper Mario or Metroid Prime, if not RE4. 

Why is 8.8 a bad fucking score? I don't get that. Maybe it's because I haven't played "teh awesomenesssssessses" that is the other Zelda games. I'm liking Zelda a lot. I think the one part of the Gamespot review they got wrong was saying "It doesn't take enough advantage of the Wiimote's features." I disagree with that. You swing a sword. You move the Wiimote forward to jump. You aim with the Wiimote. What the fuck more do you want?

My total Zelda experience previous to this was about 1 hour in Wind Waker, and I could never get myself to sit down to it for more than that. Maybe it was the cel-shading, which I liked, but it felt kidsy and I always felt like I had other things I wanted to play more. I'll probably go back and play it through at some point. But if the complaint that it isn't more different from other Zelda games is the biggest problem, take every fucking sequel game you've bought recently and smash it to pieces. The Final Fantasy games? I shit more innovation in the morning. That series has had 2 major innovations in what 12 regular games and umpteen other franchise branches? The 2 being an MMOG and 3d graphics. That's it. Otherwise it's the same angtsy bunch of rent boys emoting while throwing down comets from orbit as special attacks. The story might be strong (for what it is) but don't try to tell me the games are much different because they aren't.

Zelda is Zelda and if it wasn't, the people who love Zelda would get pissed as hell and blame Nintendo. Sure, it might could take a little bit of a chance with the series, but it's a delicate balance. What needs to be considered is whether the game is fun, and it is. If it isn't as fun as other Zeldas, it's still a fun game.

I wanted a Wii, but instead I got a cold and sinus infection.  /sadf  The Target sold 40+ units in 30 minutes, too bad I was in no shape to get one.  Or cable it up.  Or play it.

I am pleasantly surprised that the Wii has sold out, some speculating that one million Wii (http://www.maxconsole.net/?mode=news&newsid=11994) were unloaded on the first day.  But of course I am a Nintendo whore.  The thing that I find intriguing is that so many people of so many types seem to know about the Wii; I assume this is because they saw ads in media that I normally don't intake.

The news about the online capability is disappointing but not unexpected.  I can't think of many things Nintendo has made that could not have used some no-brainer improvements.

FFXII is much more of a monster-bash, however it is a very fun monster bash with pretty CGI.  I am glad, honestly, to not have to wonder what the fuck is going on with a story where someone is a dream of someone else or there are moon monsters or something about the main guy being someone else or finding out that everyone - even the villain - went to school together.  The story is more, uh, strategic?  More about the political movements of kingdoms, kind of like FFT, oddly enough.  I think I like FFIV best for story and characters, but FFXII for everything else.

Ocarina of Time is the standard metric when discussing Zelda... at least since the NES games.  It is worth a play if you have not tried it.

I like RE 4, but RE needed to be reinvented because its core gameplay had aged horribly and there were serious structural problems with the game, and with Survival Horror in general. Capcom turned "Survival Horror" into "Horror Shooter" because they couldn't figure out a way to make controlling your character not feel like driving a tank without completely trivializing the game.  The first time they tried, they somehow ended up with "Devil May Cry." Then they went back and made the gorgeous REmake and RE0, where your heroes might find themselves running helplessly in place against a piece of scenery while a skinless gorilla mauled them. Ultimately, they made the scariest game in which the hero could still shoot his way through a mansion full of possessed monks.  Capcom reinvented survival horror because they could not modernize survival horror, and it's hard to go back to old RE because old RE is premised on frustrating controls.

Meanwhile Zelda had already revolutionized online action/adventure controls when Nintendo came up with Z targeting in OoT. It's not like there's a problem with the control. Nintendo characters have always been fun and easy to move around.

Twilight Princess was clearly built as a gamecube game, so, while the Wii Remote is a perfectly capable controller for the game, this is not the game that is going to show off the full capabilities of the device. That comes later. You saw Mario Galaxy at E3.

I don't think it is a bad score.  IMO, if you get the Wii, you'd better get Zelda or you're a dink.  I do think that RE4, Metroid Prime, and Paper Mario were better.  I also think Zelda is better than the vast majority of games.  But it's not the 10/10 some places are giving it, and I think ther are complaints about the control.  Things to complain about with the Wiimote:


1) The targeting (slingshot, eagle) seem very secondary to the play.  Thus far, the sword is the main thing and it doesn't use targeting.  If there were more things to target or targeting were done more often as part of normal gameplay it wouldn't feel so odd.  There is the farie targeting cursor, and that helps.

2) The camera isn't as easy as I'd have liked.  Specifically, I can't use the targeting curser to pan around seamlessly.  What I would like is for the Wii to ignore the remote if it is pointed away from the TV, scroll quicker if I hold it on the edge, and ignore panning on any jerks that may accompany sword gestures.  Instead, I use analog+Z to spin the camera. 

3) The sword combat seems a bit bland.  If the different moves meant something, maybe.  Right now it just seems to be spin vs everything else, with even the jump attack not doing much different from regular hacks.  The end result is that i just Z target and shake the Wiimote to win.  Even the original Zelda had maneuvering to get the right angle to attack.

1 and 3 may be improved later on, as I'm only an hour or so into it as well.  And there's certainly nothing for Nintendo to be ashamed of in this game, but it isn't above criticism.

No game is above criticism. I just think the idea that "It's just another Zelda game" is a bad criticism, because it's retardedly obvious.

On a related note, I have heard several unrelated people who would probably not lie to me say that, as a result of a translation issue the "Rawk Hawk" character in Paper Mario was named "Rock Cock" until right before the game went gold, and that some reviewers got copies where the character had this name, and he actually said "You're gonna get ROCKED by this COCK," and that this was mentioned in previews or reviews on at least one major site, but was edited at Nintendo's request after it became clear the language had been removed from the release code.

Anyone know if this is true?

Also related, reports from Maxconsole (http://www.maxconsole.net/?mode=news&newsid=11973) are that Freeloader works with the Wii.

I think far too much is being made of if Zelda is "innovative" or not. Screw that - is it fun and engaging? I played/watched for about an hour of gameplay, and I thought the game was fun and engaging. The wolf-form stuff seems interesting. Link having a mischievous little spirit as a companion is different and cool. Also, from browsing the beginning of the strat guide, there seems to be a lot more to do with the new control scheme further into the game. To me, an 8.8 score is fairly high, though I would have simply went with a nice, rounded 9. But to me, the numerical scores don't really mean shit - is the game fun? That's what matters to me.

On a different note....I was not too thrilled with Red Steel. I only played for about 5 minutes, and I just loaded up a friend's save, but...the controls seemed VERY awkward. Not sure how to fix the problem, whatever it is. One cool thing was that I could hold my Uzi "gangsta-style." Unfortunately, movement and aiming seemed like a huge pain.

Red Steel gets better in my opinion. It's going to take a bit to get used to the controls, but I played for over an hour last night and didn't want to stop.

The swordplay is awful.  It's painful to be pushed into these scripted duels, with only two attacks of consequence (attack and block).  However, the gunplay is decent.  The Wiimote does take a bit to get used to and isn't as intuitive as I'd have liked, but that awkwardness you've hit can be overcome without too much effort.  After only a couple of hours I'm doing better at scoring kills with my guns here than I have other shooters with thumbsticks.  It does get better, and as long as you like shooting up Japanese gangsters, fun.

Yeah, I should have mentioned that you could probably chalk up the experience to "learning curve." If/When I get a Wii of my own, I'll have to give this another shot.

I enjoyed the hell out of the swordplay so far in Red Steel. It's what's got me hooked on the game.

You're the only person I've heard say this, and I know a lot of people who have played RS.

I didn't get a chance to play with a sword in the game. I was very disappointed to hear that I don't simply have a sword as another weapon. Instead, you only swordfight in specific instances. Also, I'm told the swordfighting essentially involves randomly waving the Wiimote at the IR Bar. Played a similar game in a Namcozone, and (while the actual mechanics differ from how the Wiimote works) it was a disconnected, unintuitive bore.

I guess I won't be satisfied until I can swordfight how I want to swordfight.

This is why I don't listen to other people too much when it comes to picking my games. I was standing up getting a nice lather going during the swordfighting sequences.

?

Seriously?

Swordfighting is nothing more than wait for an attack, parry, and quickly counter.  For the people who can bust through your parry and for the few times they uae a big attack, sidestep.  Wii Sports tennis has more depth (and is more fun).

Edit:  Not trying to spoil your fun or anything, and I get that some people enjoy different things than I do (my wife loves Trauma Center - I won't play it, but I get why it might be appealing).  I just can't wrap my head around why the swordplay in Red Steel could be at all entertaining.

I can't speak for Haem, but some people like to get into things more than just what's necessary. I've seen a lot of games where sneaking is an option, but reviewers will say all you need to do is run and gun through without wasting time sneaking. Some people like sneaking. Some people underestimate the sneakiness (/tuturo).

(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e257/superkensey/haemcopy.jpg?t=1164144334)

OcellotJenkins, you are the man. :heart:

I get into the swordfighting. While I'm seated for the run and gun parts, I'm on my feet looking like a complete TOOL for the swordfighting bits. They are fun, visceral entertainment. Maybe they'll get old. I'm not claiming that Red Steel is some deep shooter, but it is good, visceral John Woo style fun. I plan on doing a write up on the Game of Angst, after maybe 3 hours of play. But so far, I'm having a blast with it.

We are still having way too much fun making Miis. We made a female downie tonight named, creatively, Downie Sue and a buck-toothed Chinaman name ChingChong. Hong Kong Fooey! Now we have our own baseball team!

Friend Codes anyone?

3829 1782 4059 3887

Mii: OG Brett

Yes, I suppose I should make a Friends Code Thread and Sticky It.

You do realize if you do that they'll no longer be "Friends" codes but "random person who stumbled upon f13.net can grab them" codes.

You have to put the codes in on both sides. Putting them in on just one side doesn't work. Or at least, it's not supposed to...

Ah, never mind then.

My Wii from Amazon arrived today, fired it up, patched it, tossed in Zelda, and off I went.  So far my opinion of the console and the game is very positive.  It's not perfect, but I wasn't expecting perfection, so I didn't have any crushed dreams to sour the impression.  After a few hours of stabbing things in Zelda, people came over, so we switched over to Wii Sports and messed around with it for a while.  It was as shallow as a mud puddle, but very slick and very fun when playing with others, a good demonstration of what the system and controllers can do.  After most of the people left, the rest of us spent a good bit of time messing around with the Mii setup, making our avatars amid snide suggestions from the onlookers.

My call?  8.8.  The fact that the Wii is still missing about half of its online functionality and the lack of anything better than a composite video cable are the only red marks in my opinion thus far.  Seriously, svideo should be considered the entry-level default video now, I haven't used composite in years.  Setup was smooth, the Wii accepted the wavebird controllers without any fuss, the games played well without any glitches, and all of this was accomplished at half the price of the PS3.

And unlike any of the more insanely rabid fanboys out there, I consider 8.8 a perfectly good score.  Definitely a higher score than I'd've given the 360s with all the red rings of death and the PS3s at their atrocious price.  Nintendo wasn't flawless with the Wii, but they showed competence befitting their age and experience in the industry.

My first impressions of Zelda are up on the blog now.

I actually hooked my Gamecube stuff up to the system last night and tried out RE4 for a few minutes. My old wireless (Mad Catz I think) Cube controller worked fine, and the only hitch was having to reinsert the memory card a few times before it would recognize it. Other than that, it was smooth as butter.

So the sensor bar isn't really a sensor bar. It's just a bunch of  IR Transmitters. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTGSkYRDpWY)


The sensing is done by  the wiimote.

That knowledge would make the creation of a wireless "sensor bar" a much easier process.

edit:
It's sad that even with Firefox v2's built in spell checking, I still screw up.

Just gave my impressions of Red Steel on my blog. Overall, I love the game, but if you are doubtful, just rent it first.

Dude quit pimping your blog. We get it.

I want one. But I can't find them now.

I have no problem with him pimping his blog, because he is actually talking about GAMEPLAY and the GAME ITSELF in his reviews.  What he is not doing is peppering us with complaints in Sentences A, C, E, etc. about how it sux since it doesn't utilize every last pixel of his HDTV, and trolling in Sentences B, D, F, etc. about how the HDTV is breathtaking/cures cancer/pleasures him sexually.

In short, if I never hear another word about HDTV it'll be too soon.

EDIT:  Pwned.  http://www.redherring.com/Article.aspx?a=19876&hed=Wii+Pummels+PS3+in+Online+Buzz&sector=Industries&subsector=EntertainmentAndMedia

He could be posting those reviews here, so this thread will have some non-faggoty content itself. Plus we all KNOW about his blog, the link is in his sig.

I'd like to take this moment to offer you my hand in holy matrimony, Lily.  I'll relinquish full control of the dishwasher and stove, and when I'm not using the HDTV you can watch your stories.  Oh, and I'll also add in the extra enticement of a crockpot.

wtf is that supposed to mean?

I think he agrees with you.

Oh, then thanks sweetie!

Anyone have any ideas for landing a Wii tomorrow?  Everyone I talk to in stores says they have no idea when they are coming in, but I keep reading speculation that stores have a bunch in the storeroom to set out tomorrow morning.  Should I camp out Best Buy for the special mall opening at 7AM tomorrow, even though a clerk told me last Sunday they'd have more next Sunday?  I'm in Boston if anyway has any area-specific news. 

Uh. Best Buys and Gamestops have both Wiis and PS3s in already. Both are opening at 7am I believe and it's first come first serve.

Many thanks.  I'm torn about when I should go over there- Cambridge is a student town- hopefully 3 or 4 AM will do it.

Really? Where did you hear this? Because I am sorely tempted to camp out at my favorite Best Buy and get a Wii.

The amazon forums seems to think BB was storing up all their Wii until Sunday and EB/GS is storing for friday.

Uh, well. The manager at my Gamestop asked if I needed another Wii or PS3 and then it was on Digg.

So... Everywhere. I heard it everywhere.

http://digg.com/gaming_news/Many_Retailers_Currently_HAVE_Wiis_But_Won_t_Sell_Til_Black_Friday

Just call your Gamestop and ask if they have Wiis to sell on black friday. Tell them you know the district manager or something and just be a mean asshole. You'll get your answer.

As far as Wiis and Gamestops go, each store should have like...4 or so, if none were "set aside." I don't think we have any PS3.

That article doesn't say anything about BB.  Cripes...now I am torn between hanging out at the one mall and sprinting into BB, or hanging out in front of Gamestop (at Boston's busiest mall) and hoping I can get one of 4.  ANybody know anybody at American BBs?  (I've seen articles saying canadian BBs will have them tomorrow).   :-P

Each Gamestop got at least 3 - yea. Most got 6 though. I'd say stay there.

This is a stupid question- I know EB Games is owned by Gamestop- so are they under the same deal?  Only ask cause it is much easier for me to get to an EB games than a Gamestop.

I couldn't say. When my store does conference calls, it's only Gamestop stores that are involved.

What they've been doing in Portland is you get in line early at the store (we got there at 5am for a store that opens at 7) and at like 6 they came out and passed out vouchers so that your unit was spposedly guaranteed. I didn't trust this so I stayed at the doors until opening, but I guess in retrospect I could've gone home for an hour and returned when the store opened. I got video of a dude with his kids showing up at 7 thinking they were gonna be First In Line!!! but were informed by a guy in line (we staged this) that they were already too late. You shoulda seen the look on those kids' faces. Priceless!

Cold.  Ice cold.   :-D

I wouldn't worry too much about picking one up.  Just got back from Circuit City - the ONLY one in N. Ky w.t.f? - and they had 4 or 5 out on the floor even after the 200+ people in line before me got inside.  Everyone's jazzed to get the fucking Gameboy SP for some reason.

ba, getting there at 4:30 wasn't early enough to get 1 of the 5 Wiis at the local eb games. I don't see how Nintendo handling this release any better than Sony.

Got one of 10 Wiis in Cambridge Galleria Mall EB Games.  Got there at 4:00 AM (7 AM opening) and was third in line.  If I had to guess I'd say the tenth guy was there by 5 AM. 

No, I couldn't, because schild doesn't want to me to link to my site from here. And were I to copy and paste the longish reviews into this thread, I'd get complaints about copy pasting reviews. So in short, I just let the thread know when something's updated, since it is relevant, but without linking directly since I can't do that either. In short, stop fagging up the thread with even more non-content, since my posts actually had content, sparse and referential though it may be. You do note there was a summary of the review in case you didn't actually give a shit about my blog?

Or you could have just PM'ed me and we could get a room instead. Postcount++

Just update your sig when you make an update. Christ. Drama.

f13.net isn't a medium for your self-promotion, Haem. Anyone else would have been banned for less and you know it. You can still contribute here even though you have your own gig now.

*cough*turncoat*cough*

WTF.  He's contributed a fuck ton around here than your high strung ass.  What he did point to is content.  Your pissing and moaning is not.

I didn't go get one. I had planned on it, but I started looking at the game library and realized that other than Zelda there is no "must-have" title on the Wii. And I'm not paying for the PS3. (Which also has no must-have's except possibly for Resistance.)

I may still pick one up tomorrow at Best Buy if I succumb to Zelda temptation.

We're holding off until after Christmas. Pretty much the same reason

I have played through a bit more of both Red Steel and Zelda, more Red Steel than anything. The reviewers who gave this bad reviews? I don't have any idea what standard they are holding games up to that they gave it less than a 7.5 or thereabouts. I've been playing it instead of Zelda and Zelda's a pretty damn fun game. I have barely touched Call of Duty 3 because of it even though it looks good as well. YMMV.

Who the hell do you think you are?

Everyone, get back to waving your Wii around. I don't want to take the effort to split and den.  I'm tired and cranky; my team just lost the rivalry game to state.  I was there.  I sat on a cold metal bleacher for hours.  I think I may be getting sick.

Calm it.

Or save it for the Festivus Airing of Grievances.

blogs are destroying the internet

Two trestles for four levels of scaffolding, the Little Giant is even more convenient. 

My interests in the Wii revolve around two goals. Finding "pick up and play" games to replace MMORPG's now that I don't have huge blocks of solo gaming time to invest, and trying to corrupt my SO (who is partly responsible for the above) towards gaming. In that context "Rayman Raving Rabbids" was the A-list title on the Wii, a couple of promo videos for the game and she was hooked.

It's also a hopeful sign of the "quirky" titles that might be drawn to the Wii, developers forced to focus on character since they can't blow players away with the shiny. And if I develop a lust for a heavier gaming experience I'll be hoping that title is out for the PC.

Shame I don't have a TV to plug a console into, but it's a good excuse to get a 24" LCD monitor now that some of those come with component in.

Wii Sports (that comes with the console) has by far been the easiest game to push on people we know who aren't gamers. Hell, I hate sports games and I can't stop playing tennis and baseball (I kind of kick ass at baseball). You can play for 15 minutes or 2 hours. AND you can get strap-on wrist weights to wear while you play and get an upper-body resistance training workout at the same time! Joy!

WTF?  Haem still has the best articles this site has seen in either of its incarnations.  That's a very uncool thing of you to say.  :x

This drama will stop.

Now.

To attempt a rerail:

Apparently, the Wii is exposing  us for the lazy fatasses we are (http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB116441076273232312-IHR8Xf3YEG61QlW0e7hA_kHAA8w_20061224.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top).

Extended play can certainly provide a helluva work out. There was one swordfight in Red Steel that I had to repeat about 6 or 7 times and my back was a bit sore and I was sweaty. This article drastically overexaggerates what isn't a problem.


Almost any physical activity you do for hours and hours on end is going to cause some kind of RSI. It ain't the Wii's fault if you're a fatass.

I hope you guys don't mind me actually posting about the actual topic to actually umm actual.

So any idea where I can buy one of these? Or when new ones are coming in? I'd like to get one for my brothers for Christmas, but I don't want to camp out for one - is that too much to ask for?

I'd say go to your local Gamestop or EB and make nice, see if they'll let you preorder. Failing that, sweettalk someone at Target or Wal-Mart. There will likely be enough supply to go around before Christmas, the biggest problem will be knowing when it's arriving at the store (unless they let you preorder).

They're sitting on the shelf at the HMV down the block from where I work. Looks like that with a little effort, it's not too bad to find a Wii.

Now if only we had HMVs here.   :-P

I'll look around, though from everyone I've called they are sold out and don't know when more are coming in. Weird that no one lets you pre-order.

I feel your pain, looks like another early morning for me on Sunday.

I want a Wii with a 40 lb wand for Christmas. There's no danger that the 40 lb wand would fall out of my greasy hands, for it would be gripped by white-knuckled gamer's zeal.  Right now at 220-240 lbs I think I quality as the lazy fatass, if not quite to Cartman severity, but with the 40 lb Wii wand exercise regimen I'll look like Schwarzenegger in his prime in 6 months, tops.  At least on the side I use the Controller.

There's a fun mental image for you.  Enjoy your dinner.

At least at my Gamestop, and I'm going to guess the vast majority of other locations, they will not let you preorder on anything beyond the initial shipment.

Now, if you were friendly with one of the employees, especially the manager, there's nothing to stop them from putting one aside for you....

EDIT: Oh, if you know a District Manager by chance, you pretty much have a lock on getting...whatever you want.

I didn't figure you could preorder after release, but you never know with something special like the Wii or PS3. Then it's time to sweettalk somebody at one of those stores.

Rumors are that you should be at Target at 0800 on Sunday.  Maybe TRU as well, whenever they open.  Not sure I will be able to get up that early on Sunday, but I'll have Killjoy with me so you just never know.

I have heard Circuit City on Sunday as well. There are a few of both within 5 minutes drive of me so I'll be checking them out I suppose. Unless of course schild can sell me one behind the Gamestop.

I've heard the Target having Wii's on Sunday thing too. I don't know how it started but I do know that it's in the Sunday ad and there's quite a few stores in my area that have 10-15 come up for inventory but claim to have none when you call them.

Supposedly, both Target and Toys R Us will receive some on Sunday (12/3). Walmart is supposed to have limited stock next Wednesday (12/6).

IMLTHO, without the 40 lb Wii wand, it's just not worth the massive infighting involved in trying to get one this year ;)

I'm kinda tempted to get one, the most recent console I own is an SNES.  (well, unless you count mobiles like my GBA, or the not-really-portable Virtual Boy)
It'd give me a more modern interface to old games I have or don't have, and all the new ones as well.  However, lines and whatnot suck.  I'm considering just waiting until early next year...  But then it can be difficult to find stuff that was released back here in time.

Ah well.  We'll see just how many they manage to ship.

--
Alkiera

I'm half-tempted to call the EB games up the road and see if they happen to have one in stock.

I could be there and back in like ten minutes tops. 

The problem is that I'm currently sidetracked wondering if the call will go down is some kind of awesome Clerks-esque fashion or just be boring.  For instance, in my mind, it'd hilarious if I called and said, "Hey do you guys have any Wiis in stock?" and then the guy at EB said, "About the biggest one you've ever seen, numbnuts."

Sadly, I think my "taking a snow day" version of reality will be totally not how it works in RL.

So yeah, those bastard's had better have a goddamn Wii.

ETA -- WTF, even in Chicago, I'm having problems finding a damn Wii at any stores.  WTG, Nintendo, I guess.

There are no Wiis in my area.

I've discovered the reason why there are no Wiis to be found in stores, but you're not going to like it (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3155609).

Well, technically I can get one for myself or any other single person I want if I really wanted to. Just sayin'.

Go ahead and get me one. I'll wait by the mailbox. Thanks!

Money first, kekeke.

How about a Wii and some wrist weights? Would that work?

--GF

I guess so, but then I'd have to acknoledge that I could have been using the wrist weights all this time.  Either that or I could have put weights in all my clothing, anime style.  Maybe what I really need is a chamber that amplifies the gravity where my games are by several times normal earth gravity.

Btw, I went to Target this morning. The guy said they had 24 Wiis (and 2 PS3s) come in Sunday morning, but there was already a line when the store opened and they sold them all. GameStop (2 of 'em) were also sold out early in the morning.

I ended up getting an Xbox 360 instead, which I'm splitting the cost of with my mom.. so it's win/win for my brothers and me! (I get to spend less on their present).

I told you that I could get you a Wii, but whatever, 360 is good as well.

But now you need to know more people with 360s so you can play 4-player online co-op in R6: Las Vegas.

Yeah, so I had the cash for a Wii, then one of my Tie Rods decided to go bad and the dentist told me my molar filling was cracked.  Hooray for dental plans that only pay $40 of a $149 filling.

Looks like the Wii will be coming from the end-of-the-year bonus or the tax return instead.  Bleah.

It seems like it's that way with every insurance plan.  Under ordinary circumstances I've got awesome health insurance through Blue Cross/Blue Shield.  When it comes to dental, though, the coverage sucks just like everyone else's does.  God help you if you need anything other than basic maintenance, because the dentists will hook up a vacuum to your wallet.

All too true.  Wait until your kids need braces.


Company bonus, there's a long lost tradition.

Just join me online and you'll have 3 other people to play with. It's not that hard, honest!

And still pretty standard in the Homebuilding industry.  Hooray for companies run by families rather than "educated" corporate CEOs out to spike stock then get the hell out of dodge.

I have a funny story about me not getting a Wii.  I think I mentioned that Killjoy was coming over this weekend and he wondered why the hell I didn't have a Wii.  Somehow, despite my meager protests I agreed that we should get up early and see about this Target rumor.  I usually pop awake at 0630 so I didn't bother to set my alarm, but that was dumb because I AM FUCKING TIRED and my wife toenailed me awake (twue wuv) and mumbled that it was 0730.  Well, being awake already with the sun coming in the windows I decided I might as well go.

No time to try to wake up Killjoy, being a log like he is, so I drove out to Target.  Car clock said it was 0706.  Fuck.  I kept rolling.  There were a few other cars, everyone waiting in warm spaces like civilized people until a couple dingalings in a minivan roll up and head for the door.  The rest of us shambled to the door and formed a loose line.  Turns out those instigators simply thought the store was open.  Fuckwits.  No one went back to their cars, of course.  I was #5.

Eventually there were about fifteen people in line.  Every one of them wanted a Wii.  Closer to 0800, a Target employee came out to give us the bad news: no Wii at this store, however there were two in Acworth and twenty at Barret Parkway.  Cold faces became long faces.  "But we have six PS3s," she said.  There was general discontented mumbling from the crowd, and all but five of us shambled off to the cars again.  Note that there were fewer people waiting than there were PS3s.

I was on the fence.  And I was #2 in line for a PS3.  The $600 one.  But surely this was a sign from God.  Being a married man, I did the right thing and immediately started covering my ass: I called my wife.  Sunday being the one day in a week that we get to sleep late, she said that she didn't care as long as I stopped calling the damn house.  Well, slap my worm and call me Muad'dib, there you go; that plus my incredibly weak willpower had me walking out of Target with a PS3, a 3-year service plan ($59) and Resistance.  No Paul-damned cables, though.  Whatever, I'm working from home all week and I might just happen to find a set.

The PS3 is pretty fucking sweet.  Vagrant Story works great in it.

Who is Killjoy?

I didn't get a Wii because the Toys R Us screwed up the pre-order list.  I had been on it since it was just a blank piece of paper on which people printed their names/numbers after handing over the deposit money.  Somehow my name didn't make it from that list to the computer when they keyed it in.  I phoned them to make sure it was in, gave them my name, they said it was ready to be picked up so I went down during lunch.  Then I got there and they couldn't find me, fucking idiots.  They offered me 10% off everything and any games/accessories I wanted when the next one came in but I also took it as a sign from God and cancelled my order.  I don't want some ugly IR bar on top of my TV anyways.

If you play WoW on the Crushridge server, you will know of him or his warlock Mortok.  Mortok is the guy that kills everything in some Alliance camp with a moonwell every four days.  Killjoy has made grown men cry, being the sort of rogue that will repeatedly murder someone for hours on end.  Currently doing the raid thing.  If he wasn't doing that, I might be playing WoW with him, stabbing Alliance in the face.

You can just get by knowing he's the one RL gaming friend I have, and I refer to him as Killjoy since his real name is John and this is the Intertron.

The bar is really, really fucking tiny. You'd have to be looking for it, or close to the TV to see it. And you can put it under the TV too.

YEG, YOU GOT A PS3? THANK HOLY GOD. THERE'S 3 OF US NOW. I WUV YOU.

Resistance is a lot of fun, I am surprised to hear myself say.  I'll get the PS3 wired to the Intertron eventually.  It needs a wireless card in it.

You have the 60GB one. It has a wireless card - A/B/G.

Maybe I need to read the manual.

keke

Maybe.

keke++

How about Reading the Box?

I don't have a box because I downloaded it from a Russian server.

To get back to the Wii for a moment, the Wiimote can eat some batteries. It took about a week and a half to go through one set of regular old AA batteries, with about 2-3 hours of nightly Red Steel and some 3-5 hours on weekends with other sundry playtime mixed in. Not too far off what I expected. You'll know the batteries are getting low when the Wiimote is colored red on the Home menu and when the game stops and says "Wii Remote has lost connection" or something to that effect. The good news is the game doesn't disappear, it's much like when you pulled the plug on your X-Box controller by accident. I've put some rechargeables in the thing. We'll see how long they last.

I thought you could wire the Wiimote to the console or something, so you wouldn't eat batteries.

You can if you are good with copper wire and a soldering iron.

Rechargables sound like the way to go.

I'm still looking for a Wii. My friends all got one by somewhat nefarious means but I felt guilty so I didn't do that.

I would have liked to see a charging station system for the Wiimote. Optional if need be.

I think Joytech is making some charging stations/battery packs, but I haven't seen them yet.

Wow, the Wii doesn't just come stock with rechargable Wiimotes?

Bah, who cares!  I will still continue my "call EB each morning and afternoon to see if they have one" campaign.  A Wii shall be mine!

We all fucking hate you.

Seriously, do us all a favor and just wait until Jan/Feb.

Fuck you.  I know the guys at the local EB and they told me, "just call us...we should be getting them this week and as long as we have 'em we'll hang on to one for you until you can get here." 

It's not my fault you work in retal and have to deal with jacktards.  But don't assume everyone is in the same boat, son.

I wouldn't describe working in retail as dealing with jacktards. More like BATHING in them, as if their very jacktardation was Calgon taking your sorry ass away.

Somebody get me a Wii!

If you live in Phoenix and need a Wii. Perhaps, maybe, we can...find something.

How is the nunchuck supply looking? Picked up a Wii on Sunday at Target and I happened by again today just as they were cracking open a box full of Wiimotes, but no nunchucks.

I don't live in Phoenix but I do live in a country that has UPS. :-P

Calm yourself. Did I really need to green-test that one?

Besides, if you know the guys, that's an entirely different situation. I'm talking about the jacktards off the street who call...constantly, and ask the same damn questions:

"Do you have any Nintendo Wiis (or Wyys)?"
No
"Do you know when you'll have more?"
No
"Can you guess?"
No
"Can you set one aside for me when they come in?"
No
"Even if I call?"
No

Every time I work a few hours there, I must have to go through this same conversation at least 10 times. And most retards get bent out of shape when I tell them we are not doing reserves and that I can't put one aside (well, I COULD...just not for Johnny-Off-The-Street).

I might just tell people to go to Target or Best Buy instead. My store will only get a handful, while the big chains get 10s at a time.

Can you really blame them for calling? What are they supposed to do, wait for you to call them?

I want a Wii. Your store might have one. You suggest what exactly?

Wait till Jan/Feb. That's what I would do.

Or realize the store you're calling is small as hell and would only get a couple units. You'd have more luck at Best Buy/Target.

Or (this doesn't apply to everyone) learn from what you're told the first time you call and stop calling at completely random times of the evening. We tell people straight-up that we get deliveries every weekday, between 10am and 1pm. And that we don't hold units. We're sure as hell not going to have a spare unit hanging around 6:30 at night. Yes, I've had the same person call multiple times.

Part of the problem is that people are simply not on the ball. I can understand people calling mid-day, because that's when we've told people that we get deliveries. We get calls practically non-stop, all day, every day. I've personally had 1 call about a PS3, ONE. So everyone else calling is calling for a Wii. I think it would be fair to estimate the call volume for the Wii at 20/hour for our store, and our store is very new and still not that busy. I can't imagine the units lasting more than an hour and a half after we get them in, so I'm not sure what people are thinking calling at 4, 6, or 8 at night.

A large amount of the population works during the day and that's when they get off of work?

I know its shocking and all, but outside of videogames and each holiday season's artificially HOT NEW TOY, products tend to be widely available from retailers.

Its merely videogaming that has the low print run low availability better preorder shitstorms.  And that hasn't really been in effect until the PS2 in the US.  (Japan was different but it was mocked as horror stories at nerds waiting in huge lines to play Dragon Quest whatever.)  Most every other system was available on release widely and easily as would be expected of a product people might like to purchase.

Generally the newest music CD or DVD is advertised because they want to sell it the fuck out and satisfy customers.

Only in videogaming are games in limited quantities (if even ordered the shitholes that are any videogame retailer) at many stores, and the new hardware to play them released in such low amounts as to not even be available for 1% of the country's population to buy it the first day.

These companies should be releasing systems with 3 MILLION machines at launch for the US alone.  I think the Wii barely passed 600K for the entire continent.

We shouldn't have to stand in a fucking line for 14 hours in November just to have the chance to buy a consumer product.

Billion dollar industries should have enough machines to make it through the first day of avaiability at least.  If your product goes on sale at midnight and the line at Walmart has sold out 6 hours earlier, or 9 am at Best Buy and it was pretty much locked up at 5 in the fucking morning something is WRONG.

Maybe companies shouldn't even have a launch date till they have a real stockpile of systems.

Is hitting November 17 gonna help the PS3 at fucking all?

NO.  Anyone buying one (ok PS3 isnt a good example since it was merely fodder for the moronic shitheaps on ebay...) day one is generally thought to be someone buying it to play the damned thing and not because its the holiday shopping season.

Parents can't buy little Jimmy an expensive Christmahanakus gift when they can't find it and store clerks merely laugh in their faces for not being one of the frostbitten nolifers who were idiotic enough to stand in a line for the better part of a day or more.

So what was the point of even having these November launches?  Why not stockpile them to March anyhow?

Yeah, no shit. Still don't know what's going through their mind thinking that there's still going to be units available that late into the day. At every retailer in my area that carries these things, the entire shipment sells out that day. Usually within 2-3 hours. And stores like Best Buy and Target will have these things ready to buy when they open their doors in the morning.

Also, lets think about this for a moment. What are the chances that I am the first person to inform these people that about the Wii? They know it's in high demand with low quantity. I'm not telling people to stand in line - I think that's dumb and refuse to do it. It wouldn't even help them at my store.

And really, if people ask, I just suggest they wait until after the holidays to get the thing if they don't want to participate in the rat race. Little Jimmy should be happy he gets anything at all from his parents.

Also...the Wii has a lot more than 600k units coming to NA. They pushed that many in just the first 8 days. Also, lets be real here - a Wii or PS3 is a lot more difficult to produce in bulk than a simple CD/DVD.

A big problem now is that demand feeds speculators which take systems off the market, further increasing demand.

Actually I have no idea if that is a big problem, but it is annoying, that's for sure.

Heh, you dropped the f-bomb first, hoss.  :)

At any rate, I get the annoyance with idiots who call and ask stupid questions.  These guys know me thanks to one day of multiple returns trying to find a refurb PS2 that worked, etc.  We got to talking and I guess they played SWG on my old server, knew about the town we had, etc.  So now they like me.

Hurrah for me....if they'd get a damn shipment.

Because that's when people tend to be at home and think about such things?

The whole "short demand" thing pisses me off. If you really want to sell your console for Christmas, you damn well better make sure there's enough to go around. Otherwise they might as well just forget it - it's not like they are getting a cut of the exorbitant Ebay prices.

But that would totally fuck the entire premise the industry is built aruond now, that only the NEW NEW NEWEST STUFF is worth a shit and the rest doesn't even deserve to be sold anywhere six months after release. The whole industry is predicated around selling shittons in the first week of release, then letting that release sink to the bottom as the next new hotness comes out. That's why most companies don't offer their back catalog at discount prices (though thankfully this is changing with direct downloads). That's why abandonware is an issue. Creating artificial demand by releasing limited quantities of first run hardware also allows the company to save on CS issues when the inevitable problems with first-gen hardware crop up. There's only 100k possibly borked-up PS3's or Wiis instead of millions.

Heh, this made me think of Jim Anchower's latest rap (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/56009).

(http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/character4.article.jpg)

Then you know what? They're not on the ball. They're chances of getting a system this month are miniscule or non-existant.

Early bird catches the worm and all that.

Probably not, but if it were THAT important to them, they'd have been in line.  Or they'd spend hours a week reading places like this.  Or they'd pay 2-5x the retail price on ebay to get it.  They don't care that much - they only care enough to call and bother people like you about it on the off chance something turns up.  Your statement is that you had no idea what they're thinking - what they're thinking is that it isn't that important to them to be on the ball, which would mean standing in line, when they disinterested in doing much more than hassling you about it.

Besides, at some point you'll say yes.  Until then you get to suffer in line for them. :)

Is it really That much trouble to call earlier in the day?

I'm not saying they need to camp out in the cold, or spend hours pouring over materials. Or buy from eBay. I'm just saying that if they have to call the store, call at a time when we might actually have one. Such as when we open (well, we're not going to have them at the start of the day, because we have to get shipments in first, which is during the day), or mid-day around the time such things would actually arrive.

I don't anticipate having to tell anyone we have these things until at least some time in Janurary; they simply move too damn fast.

For most people, no.  Again, it's just that they don't care that much, and even if you tell them they're probably not going to think about it until they get home from work.  I care because it's one of my main hobbies.  You care because it's your job.  Haemish cares because he exchanged vows with his Wii.  Most other people don't care all that much.  Sorta like the people who show up on day 3 of the decade's biggest movie and wonder, "This thing is still being sold out?  Really?"  I'm sure you're this close to clawing the office phone out from the wall for having to deal with it, but at $250, the Wii is just another toy.  Not many people do all that much to read up on toys - they just go buy them.

Someone came in the other night and, after being told that we were sold out of Wiis (I had to correct their pronunciation of the word, they were saying [Why]), they asked why we were sold out.

It's not like I wanted to rant or something, but I really had to work for a split second to hold back on the incredulous expression that really wanted to come over my face. Also had to hold back on asking, "Why is it sold out? Are you retarded?"

If you take a job at a game store, be prepared to field a lot of callls during the holiday season for the two new systems that being released.  That you seem shocked that people are calling all hours of the day tells me that maybe working retail isn't your thing.  From what I've seen, flipping burgers at McDonalds has more career possibilities than a job at EB Games or Gamestop anyway.

Oh, I know I was going to have to take a ton of calls about the new systems. And while I know people are stupid about this sort of thing, it somehow still surprises me that people call are odd hours. I have trouble remember that these people are mostly uninformed idiots (though you don't have to work at the place to know these things).

Also, this job is by no means turning into a career. It's just one of the things I do right now.

Never let yourself underestimate the stupidity of the common man. They will always surprise you.

I'm not sure I'd go this far. They're just not nerds who follow all Wii product news.

See, your view of gaming is wrong.  Why is it wrong?  Because its the fuckheaded bullshittery gamestores have been trying to push since roughly the time my beloved B Dalton's Software Ect decided to throw up a section with NES games.

An endless parade of preordering, MSRP ONLY, magazine subscription pushing, game system fanboyism SUCK.

Its the reason I buy most of my games from Wal Mart even though they are evil and destroying America.  Because they get games in stock, you go in, and BUY THEM.  They don't bother you.  Mainly because they don't really care.  They don't even know what to do with preorder cards.

"Do you want to preorder anything?"  Is one of my most hated phrases in the English language thanks to the EBStops of the world.

No.  No I do not.  You WILL stock enough or I WILL go to another store that has it.  I might want to wait for such things as reviews to come out.
Shocking, I know.  OMG GOTTA HAVE IT DAY ONE is dumb.

Maybe I am just old fashioned, but I like older stuff and don't always need or want it the first day.  I shouldn't have to know about a product 9 months in advance to salivate and babble in its forums only to finish the game in a week then get 20 bucks credit on it for some shitty gamestore chain to resell it for 45.

When I went to EB yesterday, the clerk tossed a big folder of "games to preorder" before me as he went in the back to find the game I came to get. Then when he came back, he starts chatting me up about it. I didn't even ask for the damn thing.

One, you still have not demonstrated how my view of gaming is "wrong." I didn't even post my "views", so I don't even know what you're getting at.

Two, why such a beef with reserves? It's not like you're paying extra or something. Go to Walmart if you choose, because no one cares where you get your gaming stuff at. Me? I perfer to stay out of that dump if I can help it, so I usually just go to my local Gamestop. And if there's a game coming out that I know I'm going to get, I'll just reserve it. If I'm not sure I'm going to want it, I won't. At least with reserves, you Know you're not going to have to run around for the game.

Really, I wish we could stock enough Wiis so I wouldn't have to keep telling people to call back and ask about it. And in that same fantasy land, I wish I got paid a lot more to talk about games and shit. But that's not reality, and reality is all I deal in.

Also, I don't know about the people you deal with, but I don't try to shove shit down people's throats. When people buy new hardware, I ask if they want the warranty (I usually try to get it on all my good electronic toys). Lots of used stuff? Ask them about the sub, which is really about getting more/paying less with used stuff and not so much about the dumb mags. Buying something new? Depending on the person, I may or may not ask about a reserve. I probably do if they're picking up one to begin with. Person doesn't want any of it? No problem, just asking.

"Hi, welcome to EBStop where you can buy and sell used games.  Would you like to pre-order a copy of Suckfest '07, the thrilling new game from BigSuckGames?"

That is the usual greeting at an EBStop around here.  Grrrrrr.  I always just look at the guy like he's crazy and then hand him the game I want and a credit card.  But I usually go to Best Buy anyway.  Instore pickup for the win.  If I have to talk to someone it's to say, "do you have a pen?"

Anyway, yeah, people call when they get off work, an hour before when they're bored, waiting to get off work, when they get home, when their kid asks them again if they are getting a Wii for Christmas, when they see an ad, when they drive by a store ......... or just generally whenever some random thought makes them think about it.  That's generally how I've been about calling places (I just called to see if something was in, in response to reading this thread).  I'm not sure why this would be surprising.  Also, if the retail stores just had a decent way to tell when they'd be getting in shipments, we'd check that.  But they don't.  So we don't.  I know that's not YOUR fault as an employee but it's what WE are dealing with as customers and you're just the guy who gets to talk to us.  I don't get off on feeling like I'm part of the special EBStop club.  I'm not going to come into the store and maybe get sucked into buying something just because your company is too retarded to inform me of their shipment status on their website.  I'm going to do what is convenient for me not for EBStop.

Do they seriously give you a spiel like that when you physically walk through the door? That's pretty obscene. I just say hello and ask if they need help with something. I'm a fan of no-hassle shopping. Also, I don't try to "suck" anyone into buying anything, and I don't advise people to buy something that I myself would not reasonably buy.

And yeah, I seriously wish there was a way for people to simply look up when we get our shipments. Instead, I just tell everyone the info when they call. Also, I wish we could put "No Wii/PS3" signs on the door, and have automated messages saying as much when people call.

Who gives a fuck? I mean, really. Their just teenagers robots. Let them do their thing.

Let society kill them if it already hasn't.

As for preorders, ehhhhhh, I do it. Gets me tons of free shit and it's not like I can't part with 5 bucks to guarantee a game on day one less than a minute from my house.

Do you want to buy that used?? We have it used, you could save a few dollars?

No? Okay, well you want to buy the strategy guide of course, it's only $25 and tells you all the secrets of Halo, like how to point and click on the enemies.

Oh, well okay, your loss, now I'm sure you'll want to be buying our warranty on this game so that you can get a years protection on it even though you will finish it this weekend right?

Did I already ask you if you wanted to preorder anything?

...

Not to mention it takes twenty minutes to get through a line of four people as they rummage through the entire fucking store trying to find that used SNES game some out of touch parent is buying for their kid.  The only time I buy something from EBgames is if everyone else in a ten mile radius is out of stock.  Note that I'm not really blaming the kid asking the questions either, I'm sure it's corporate or the store manager telling them to push this crap.

I usually just chuckle when they say that but I actually stopped and thought about it when they said that when I was buying Guitar Hero with the guitar and I ended up coughing up the extra $5 or whatever just in case I break that thing.

My PS2's Warrenty ended up being worth the money.

But yeah, a warrenty on a game?  Jebus, the stores around here don't do that.

I might do it if I was a parent and buying a game for my young kids.

As a brief counter point....

At the EB in the mall here I get the kind of interaction Strazos said he uses... a 'Hey there' when I walk in, to which I either nod in response or say hi back, and then I walk around to look for what I want.  Usually the employees are talking about some game or another, or personal/store politics, so I browse around, sometimes I join game discussions, if I ask about something, they're happy to tell what they know.  I've not really bought anything at the GameStop that is in the same mall, tho I've walked through it.  The people there are always talking about something, and I don't know that I've ever been spoken to by an employee.

Prices between the two stores are slightly different, sometimes, despite them being in the same building, maybe 150 yds apart.  Wacky.

The worse EB rep I've dealt with wasn't about preorder shit, but some kid who kept following me around trying to tell me about World of Warcraft. I finally told him that I thought WoW sucks, and he looked stunned. Then he proceeded to try selling me a copy of "Matador". Wtf?

Oh wait. I think it was about preordering. He was trying to sell me Burning Crusade.


Also, when I went yesterday, I could hear the employees masturbating over some "news" that WoW was coming to the 360. "WTF?" to that as well. Where do these guys get their info? This isn't the first time I've heard them yapping about the nonsense either (I distinctly recall a Phantom related discussion at one point in time as well).

Though I haven't tried to sell a game warranty myself yet, I can definately see how it can be useful. I boggle at some of the trade-ins I see.

Oddly enough, the vast majority of the discs that look unplayable are actually playable, or usually repairable.

Completely unrelated, but I don't try to sell strat guides. At all. I don't even mention them. Yes, with some you get something like a 20% discount when buying the game at the same time, but I really hate those things, so fuck it. People are there to buy about $50-60 worth of stuff if they're just getting one new game, not $70-100. They get price shock or something.

Also, I don't push used really. When someone asks if we have a game, I ask if they're looking for new or used, but if they say they want it new, I give it to them new. Sure, the store makes boatloads from used stuff, but I'd rather see some kickbacks to the devs.


Anyway, I don't have time to hassle people when they come in about buying used or any of that silly stuff. I spend too much time as it is explaining the Wii, or comparing/contrasting the 360 vs PS3.


PS: Stray, I think you're dealing with a dumb EBstop. My store typically talks about shit that makes sense.

It's not the first time you've heard it. I've heard things as well. There's more reasons that Vanguard and True Fantasy 360 were canned by MS than just "suckage."

I bought a used X-Box and it didn't work. Then I traded it in and they gave me one with a really shitty controller. I bought Smackdown vs. Raw 2006 used and they gave me an older version, had to return it and get the newer one.

The $10 off is not worth the hassle.

It is quite a racket though. Buy a used game for $5-$10 and sell it back at $5-$10 below sticker price?

That isn't worse than Half Price Books though. Those guys are dicks.

Yeah, some of the turn-around prices on the used games are pretty obscene. Trade in a new-ish 360 game and get about $33. We sell it used for like, $45+ or so.

I have a Game Stop and an EB Games in strip malls accross the street from each other here, made more sense before the merger.  The shoping experiences are quite different.

At the Game Stop:  Nice frendly employees, don't try any hard-sell or value-added selling.  Once told me to look online at redoctane.com for a second guitar since they didn't have any in stock.  Have my loyalty.

At the EB Games:  Always ask if I want to preorder, want a waranty (every time they ask this I wonder "What do you think I am going to do with this?"), want a strat guide, want to join the frequent buyer/seller club...  They have my hatred.

I don't think it has to do with the names on the stores, since I have been in a different Game Stop that had the hard sell.  I think it is most influenced by the store manager.

Yeah, I try to only sell stuff that makes sense. Warranties on games, for most people, is fucking retarded. Warranties on consoles (handheld or home units) does, because shit happens. Shoving a strat guide down someone's throat is, to me, insulting; "What, I'm not good enough to beat this game without being led by the nose?" Only ask people about the sub when they're dealing with used. If you buy/trade used games enough each year, it IS actually worth it.

And the mags make usable toilet paper in a pinch.

This is what they bombard me with also at my local EBStop. I have a very strong aversion to strategy guides, I think they are ruining gaming (thats for another thread), and damn do they push them hard. Usually I just say "No Thanks" but some times the clerk will go so far as to grab one and open it up and *show me* the beautiful "full color" maps, and give me that look like, "what do you mean you dont want it, are you some kind of retard?" Grrrrrr. I said I dont want the fucking thing. This is usually about the time when I inform him that stratgey guides are a horrible waste of money, cause you get less out of your game in the long run. And that because of them pushing strat guides, companies have to make game artificially harder, since the guide completely nullifies any actual puzzles. I hate that look.

Oh yeah, I hate that stupid warranry they try and push also. I SAID NO. Dont ask me 3 more times if I really do want it.

It's what they say when you call, and it's what they say when you come up to the counter. It's only the really insane district manager types that give that spiel when you walk in the door.

Hell, I came in to EB the day before the Wii preorder day just to ask the details, and the assface behind the counter repeatedly tried to goad me into pre-ordering a game any game THAT VERY DAY. I was not impressed.

I'll admit, I usually answer the phone with, "Thank you for calling Gamestop, where you can reserve Halo 3. This is X speaking, how can I help you?" Yeah, I hate adding either that Halo bit, or the thing about used games, but oh well.

They give you that shit at the counter too? I usually just ask if that's all for today. I have no real incentive to push anything in particular. Sure, the Store does, but since I don't get commission from all the warranties I've sold, I don't really care. People come in all the time and say they like our particular store/staff. I'm not exaggerating, so whatever we're doing works.

I'm there to help people, not hoodwink them.

Maybe you should come work at my local EBStop. It would be much less annoying that way.

The 2 times I've been in the Gamestop down the road from EB, I've heard the moonbats behind the counter ask EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE STORE if they want to preorder something. Every one, including me who isn't going to buy anything and is just piddling around. I want them to leave me the fuck alone.

As for trading in games, I look at it like this. It isn't as if I'm going to get money for it just sitting on my shelf and unless it's got multiplayer, I'm not going to replay it. Give me my pittance and make your profit. I do wish they'd give some to the developers, but that'll never happen.

Heh, moonbats.

Do you have the sub, Haemish? I know you're big on used stuff, and the damn thing is only $15/year. It doesn't take much for the thing to pay for itself, and then some.

So I've been watching the development of the WiimotePC mods going on.  There's some exciting presentation tools at work.

Do they synergistically dovetail with existing technology?

What?

I'm guessing you haven't been to a corporate business meeting. 

What sub? Is that the thing where you pay money to get money off on games or something? If so, no, I tend to only want to spend a set amount when I buy a game, and adding extra money on (even if just once a year) isn't in the cards.

Using the Wiimote on a PC sounds awful sweet, especially when you start thinking of Media Center on TV type of applications. Better than a Phantom keyboard/mouse combo.

The sub is for the stupid magazine, but what it Really does is give you a card that gives you 10% off used games/movies/accessories, +10% on trade-in value, and it also acts as storage for in-store credit. For 1 year.

I'm not trying to shove it down your throat, but since you've always advocated buying used I thought it would help you.

I had a gamestop card for about a year.  It was actually pretty useful.  And the crappy mag was useful for bathroom reading.

No, I haven't bothered to get the sub. It might be something I'll think about when I have extra money to spend.

Finally got to play some Call of Duty 3 after finishing Red Steel. The Wii is made for first person shooters. It's one tiny step underneath a mouse/keyboard combo as an FPS control scheme.

I actually got the EBX one one year and about broke even.  But they had that short lived Ziff Davis general gaming magazine with the old retro guy in the back so it was kind of worth reading.
Not as good as the UK's Retro Gamer magazine, but it was vastly cheaper, and available.

Haven't done it since though.  Most of my old purchases are from the budget racks or obscure Genesis/SNES ports of Amiga games.

As per Strazos, I'll be giving my local Gamestop a call at noon and a call at 3pm tomorrow.

Wish me luck!

I've been hearing that some stores might be getting some stuff in tomarrow, so good luck.

I would add an additional call at 1:30pm.  :evil:

Ya, hopefully the wife will be around tomorrow to go buy the damn thing.

Mine wasn't and I missed out on getting mine.   :heartbreak:

Bastards wouldn't hold it for eight hours, not that I blame 'em.  Apparently, the offer to hold one for me extends only about an hour or so.

I've heard that Best Buy will be getting some Wiis in for sale on the 17th.

Not worth it for me by then.

I saw an advertisement for one on TV from Walgreens of all places.

Edit: Slack: I'm pretty sure I got fucked earlier.  I called every 15 mins between 2 and 3 knowning they'd get them in around then (worker bee told me in the morning).  And @ 3pm a different guy answered and said they got 6 in and sold them out.  I was like "fucker".

I'm willing to bet that there were people waiting for the boxes to arrive who were at the store.  Why they'd only get one, I have no idea, but that's how many the guys at my neighborhood EBStop said they got in the last shipment.

At the rate they're trickling into town, I'll end up following Strazos' advice and wait till January whether I want to or not.

The virtual console and games available have depressed me and my 4 roommates. To the point that the DS, PS2, and 360 are getting 99% of the gametime in this house. There's almost always gaming going on, and it's not on the Wii. This isn't an opinion even, it's a statement of fact. Nearly every console from the past 2 generations are hooked up at this house (and then some - DC, SNES, etc), and the Wii and PS3 get the least amount of playtime. The PS3 does get used every other night or so for a Blu-Ray disc though.

Just wait a year.

Retards in action: http://www.wiidamage.com/

This belongs in the OTHER wii thread. I'd delete this message if I could. Go talk about it there.

Fucking retards. See above. :-P

Sounds more like it has to do with the gaming library available, not any particular console.  To each their own though.

Of course it's the gaming library!

Look at the Gamecube.

Should've known better.

Blame the developers.  They all bought into the PS3 hype thinking that's where the audience was going to be.  You got WarioWare, Sonic, and Cookin Mama coming out early next year at least  :-D

PS3 hype was justified. PS3 price was not. It was completely unreasonable.

Sonic is going to be ass. GUARANTEED.

Yea, Cooking Mama will be a diversion, as will Warioware. How about a game with substance? Or more than 15 second gameplay?

Doesn't matter, first 6-12 months of a console is pretty much crap and I'm ok with that. Though, if Squaresoft gets FFXIII out in America before Lost Odyssey... Eeek.

Give me Zelda+Mario Galaxies+Metroid+SSB Brawl+Resident Evi Wii and I will be a happy man.  Over the life of my gamecube I amassed fewer than 15 games in five years...but they are 15 I love.

I keep getting disappointed by FF games, and yet I'm sure just before FFXIII comes out I'm sure I'll manage to get excited.  Of course they're milking it even worse this time with the spin-off  Right now I'm just looking forward to Mass Effect a hell of a lot more.  Once again I have to say that video that's been making the rounds on the newsites (apparently the same preview that was show at X06) looks amazing.  Of course it helps that it's not at all fantasy related.

I haven't played a Sonic game since... Sonic and Knuckles on the Genesis I think.  I could imagine a playing a Sonic game with the Wiimote being somewhat fun, if not groundbreaking.  They don't all have to be huge hits, especially since you already bought the system.  But yeah, you're pretty much fucked for now until Nintendo sets release dates for all their franchise games.

OK, I'll admit it...

I sold my copy of FFXII.

I couldn't get into it....Decided to set it down for awhile.....Then realized that I was never going to play it.

So there.

October will go down as the month that I bought nothing but shitty RPG's....

[edit] To be fair though, FF was the last that I bought out of the bunch...And by that time, I was completely burned out.

If you want to blame me not liking it on NWN2, then go right ahead.

So does anyone know if there's any point getting component cables with my old-fashioned CRT TV?

Or even if I can plug them in?  :-D

(I'm pretty sure those are component cables coming out of my DVD player, so I'm pretty sure the answer's yes...??)

Edit: Damn, should have asked in that other thread. (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=8743.0) But it didn't really answer the question either.

Newer CRTs have component and it does look better. So the answer is yes, if your tv can accept them then get them.

Thanks, Margalis!

I bought a Wii on Saturday. Had great fun with Wii Sports so far. If nothing else, I approve of doing some physical exercise while gaming, instead of sitting down for hours. It's also a system that many non-gamers can get into quite easily, which is going to gain it some buyers who would not normally buy consoles or computers.

Im mostly paused in my Wii playing, but thats because I am on an Ultima kick and am replaying 3 at the moment.  Because I love me some 8 bit Ultima.

The system is fun, but I never expected it to be my sole electronic entertainment anyhow. 
(I have Zelda, but I am waiting on that till after the New Year when I have component cables and a reasonably priced fairly sized 720p HDTV.)

It also depends on what I have the urge to play.  This week its ancient RPGs.  Next week I might binge and purge on Excite Truck or Dragon Ball Z.

Ya never know.  Its why I rarely get rid of my old games.  (Though Super Monkey Ball BB might be getting traded in because its awful and I hate it.)

I have gaming ADD though.  And too many games to play.   And a friend who wants to go back to WoW.  (I am trying to get him to hold off till I get a 24" iMac with OSX 10.5.  I'm not sure its working.  I just want to wait till Jobs' Turtleneck wearing jerkoffs upgrade the specs and throw in a new OS.  is that so wrong?  Of course then I will just HAVE to use Bootcamp and try playing through another Dawn of War campaign.  Maybe try out the Necrons at max detail instead of minimum settings for my lappie.)

Plus I love tabletop games and keep buying new ones we never get to play.  I just dropped 70 on Battlelore and still need 2 boxes of the new Warhammer Fantasy starter set.

I'm sick in the head.   :cry:

No, you're not. I promise.

I'm really surprised to see so many favorable articles and good first impressions from non gamers about the Wii. Even more are popping up after the Euro launch.

I thought the Wiimote was a cool idea and all, but still a big gamble.  Nintendo, otoh, knew exactly wtf was up.

If anyone is still looking to pick one up, Target stores will be getting shipments throughout the week but is hoarding them all for Sunday morning.

GDIACF, Tale. I went to my local EB Games on Saturday. They had a pile of Wii boxes and were doing super-disdainful eye rolls when I asked if any of them had, you know, a Wii in it. They told me that they still get lineups of 30 people every morning just in case they get a new shipment, and that whatever they get sells out in minutes. Seems bad for getting one before Christmas.

I'll second that.  Wife and I rented it, and don't care for it.  The game itself is a good idea, and we *want* something with lots of minigames that use the Wiimote.  Thing is, Monkey Ball is a good example of how NOT to build for the Wiimote.  The control scheme was horrible, and we spent most of our time trying to get the use down right. 

I've been spending the game time I have playing Call of Duty 3. Some of the more obvious uses of the Wiimote don't work as well as they should (the driving mini-game should have just used the Wiimote instead of trying to use the Nunchuk too) but the shooting and tank-driving are fun. I can imagine a mech game would be a blast on the system. Once I finish COD3, I'll be splitting time between Marvel Ultimate Alliance on the Wii and an MMOG I'm testing that I plan to blog about a bit later in the week.

www.dse.com.au  :rock_hard:

Wait, you actually asked if the promo boxes sitting out on the sales floor had any actual hardware in them? Am I missing or misinterpreting something?

Again dude, your foolish gamestore ways DONT FIT WITH THE REST OF REALITY.

Usually if you see a box in a store it has THE FUCKING PRODUCT IN IT TO BUY.

Gamestores have empty boxes with PREORDER THIS stickers on it in an attempt to get people into the store to buy shit they don't want since the object they saw that in every other store IS THE FUCKING PRODUCT isn't there.

I know this is shocking, but it tends to be an effective use of limited store space and a way of not pissing off every customer in the shop.

Empty boxes have been a way of advertising for 20 years. I have piles of them from when my dad worked for Nintendo in the 80s.

Seriously, in a small store such as an EBstop, logic dictates that you don't leave valuable stuff sitting around the sales floor, where people can just pick it up.

We have a stack of fake Wii boxes in the front window. I don't work in marketing, and it wasn't my idea. But how much sense would it make to leave something like that out in the open? We don't have the pre-order stickers on the vast majority of stuff, and no pre-order shit in the windows. They're all empty so there's nothing to steal. Is that such a hard concept?

You're only the second person this season I've heard of even asking that question, and the only other people to ask were two old ladies, and they quickly realized themselves how silly their question was before we even answered.

Do you need a damn moisty nap for that sand?

No.  I'd rather gamestores stop sucking cocks in hell.
Which they clearly won't.

I could ask if you're fucking retarded or something. Possibly drunk.

Are there any mental health professionals on the board?

And I bet those old ladies never came back after copping your attitude. That'll larn 'em. Good job, soldier.

But no, I'm not talking about fake display cases in smash and grab reach. I'm talking about boxes on stock shelves you could only get to with a ladder. You know, stock shelves. Filled with stock. And empty Wii boxes.

And anyway, I live in Canada. We don't have crime here.

Or Wii's.

1) I did not give them an attitude. I did not have a chance to give them an attitude, as they quickly realized how silly the question was as soon as they asked.

2) Gamestop does not keep games/systems on the floor, so we don't really have many "fake boxes" sitting out. The only ones we do have are a handful for upcoming games.

Real shelves with fake Wii boxes would be fucking stupid.

So what did we learn today?

www.amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com)

Know anyone who actually got one through Amazon?


I would be curious to know how many PS3/Wii units Amazon was able to get ahold of for this holiday season.

When the first Playstation came out I was having trouble finding one until I went into the Sony Store and just happened to ask if they had any. The salesguy said that 'no, they didn't have any', but as I was leaving he told me to hold up for a second.

He then goes to the display window, grabs one of the "presents" that were wrapped under their fake tree, rips the gift wrap off and hands me a brand new PS.

Who knows who's idea THAT was, but I couldn't believe that during the Xmas season, they wrapped up a Playstation to use as a fake present under their fake tree. Only reason I can see for it was that one of the employees was hiding it there until payday or something.

In other words I won?

Cool.

In the wee, wee hours
That's when I think of you
In the wee, wee hours
That's when I think of you
You say, but yet I wonder
If your love was ever true
In a wee little room
I sit alone and think of you
In a wee little room
I sit alone and think of you
I wonder if you still remember
All the things we used to do
One little song
For a fading memory
One little song
For a fading memory
Of the one I really love
The only one for me

O Wii Q&A Thread, we hardly knew ye!

My local EB had a row of Disgaea 2 boxes on the top shelf.  I carried one to the counter.  The guy says "We don't have any of those."

ZOMGWTFBBQ

You still don't have Disgaea 2?

I finally got to play the Wii yesterday that we bought a few weeks ago.  My children were hoarding it.

I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm a little sore today.

It's awesome.  It's getting a lot of use around here.

What exactly can you do with Wii Friends besides trade Miis?

When they get games that allow online play, you can play with your Wii Friends. I think you can also message/email your Wii friends as well.

Yeah, your friends code works just like an email address.  You can send email from/to your Wii.  I can "type" about as fast using the Wiimote as I can using a stylus on my tablet PC, which is to say, about 10-15wpm at best.  Not bad, considering.  A little below using a BlackBerry, better than a phone.

When's the keyboard coming out?

I want to see some traveling Miis!  Why don't I see any?

I've agreed with much of the stuff said about how Strazos' crazy game store ways/attitude/perceptions dont fit in with the rest of reality (ie, I'll ring to see if your shop has a console in stock whenever I actually think to do it, usually after work and so I dont have to make the fucking trip out there for no reason. I will be surprised when heavily-advertised item of the moment isn't actually available for me to purchase. And so forth.

But on this point, I have to agree with him.

Reasonably expensive consumer electronics goods in small-to-medium sized boxes don't make for terribly good "leave it on the shelf inside a box" items since they have a way of, you know, walking off without actually being purchased. Think of digital still and video cameras and the like for comparable box sizes and logic. Hell, my MP3 player (which is smaller, but cost a bit more than a Wii) came in a comparably sized box.

You are going to get such a pinch.

Except I don't think anyone was really talking about boxes that were just sitting around in reach of customers.  I know from the Toys R Us I used to work at, that a lot of stores like to display empty boxes on the top-stock shelves.  The one I worked at had them on a shelf on top of the glass cabinets the games were in (behind the counter), and I could see how customers might think there were actually systems in them.

Not having ever worked in chain retail, I read "the sales floor" as "on the shelves, or near them, like everything else in a normal store".

I'll check out system boxes next time I go into a K-mart/Big W/Target/TRU etc. They tend to do things a little differently than smaller places like an EB due to floorspace differences.

TRU has empty Wii/360/PS3 boxes on the bottom shelf, no glass.  No Wii or PS3 units for sale.
Target does not have empty boxes, just empty shelves.
I couldn't tell what the fuck was going on at the Wal-Mart I visited.  No boxes and no labels on the shelves to indicate they might be selling consoles.

Nobody has em in stock, so what's the point?
My local Shit Mart has a display shelf with the PS3 and its prices in it, alongside some games.  The Wii cabinet is games and where systems would go is Zelda strategy guides.
The 360 section has games and machines.  (Last year the 360 case said they weren't getting any more until Januaryish or something.)

It tends to be a nice way to see if a product is in stock.  If you see it, its in.  Nothing there?  It is not there.
Its why I hated Funcoland the one time I tried to buy old games from em.  I thought I was gonna be walking out with a SNES boxed copy of Saturday Night Slam Masters, but nope.  They just had the boxes out but no game.  Which is stupid.  Then of course the games they did have they didn't even give me the box anyhow. 

Fuckers.  :x

My local EBstop is now saying that they'll have a bunch when they open on Sunday.  First come, first serve, etc.  I could take the kid to learn about how stupid it is to wait in line for a console, but she's too little to really get the lesson.

Fuck that.

I'm waiting to see how my gift card haul comes out this year.  Since nobody in my family knows what to get me, I get gift cards for Best Buy or [Random Department Store].  I'll wait until after the holidays and get one then.

If anything, the Wii's unavailability has really helped me save cash to spend on gifts.

Yeah, I suppose I could confirm here that a lot of stores are going to be unleashing some units on Sunday.

It was funny, it was like I was watching the forum redone as a Live Action Movie when I went to GameStop tonight. There was a lady there looking to buy a Wii, obviously someone who's never been in a game store before, getting told that nope, sorry, we're all out but please come back this weekend! And then she pointed to the empty boxes on display, "Then what are those?"

Ahaha!

The GameStop umm lady said that the vendor pays for the "space" and they can do whatever they want with it, and they wanted to put empty boxes. Now, I'm not sure that's true or not, but whoever came up with that idea is retarded. If you go to a BestBuy you don't see 50 empty boxes of HDTVs, only to be told they don't have any. Ahahaha.

I'm fairly sure that's not true. Schild or NiX would probably know for sure.

And if anyone is really responsible for those stupid displays in EBstop, it's the EBstop marketing twats.

No, it's not EB. It's gaming companies.

It's Nintendo, EA, etc.

It's easier to ship cover art, dvd cases, and boxes than it is to create full marketing product. Also, holding a display box - even with nothing in it - really prods the brain. I COULD HAVE THIS WITH A GAME IN IT.

Again, cheap and clever. Really cheap. And Really Clever. Jain Zar is pissed because he didn't have the product but he could touch what it should be in.

Mission fuckin accomplished.

Edit: Also, it fits on all standard shelves from book stores to video stores to gaming stores to fucking 7-11.

It's true that vendors pay for space in a lot of retail chains.  Many vendors will also periodically send reps out to make sure the stores have set up those spaces set up to their specs.  Some vendors are more agressive about it than others.  People from Leapfrog made regular visits to the TRU I worked at.  All told, they had a 20ft or so long by 8ft. tall section where only their products could be placed (that included the overstock shelf on the very top), and had anywhere between 1-4 people at a time come in probably around once a month or so.  Sometimes vendors paid to have new products displayed in one of the Feature Shop areas (just inside the entrance for instance). 

Now whether or not that was the case in this particular incident is anybody's guess, but more than likely the Gamestop lady was telling the truth.

If companies did something other than standees, regular boxes, or poster space (the first and 3rd being severely limited in space), they'd have to restructure entire marketing campaigns. Empty boxes make sense. In both the economical and market friendly sense. Aside from that, I've said it like 8 times. Empty boxes since the NES - minimum. If you aren't used to it by now, well, I dunno, that kinda weirds me out.

Best Buy is getting 40+_ a store if thier retail insider is to be believed.

I'm not waiting though.  I'm done.

I might have gone to pick one up but I just had to spend $300 taking my rabbit to the vet.  Such is life.

Does your rabbit have motion sensors and a speaker?  That's an easy decision.

I'll see if I can get some installed next week when I go back to the vet.

He should have some easily accessible ports.

$300 on a rabbit? Just get a free rabbit of the opposite sex and make more.

Found a lone copy of Twilight Princess for the Gamecube in a target. Exactly same graphics at 480p. I expect this to be about 27,000 times more fun than the Wiii version. At least.

Finally got to play some Wii and boy is it really fun. Especially people watching you play for the first time. Wii sports was Ok (only played Tennis and Boxing), but Rayman was a lot of fun.

Umm.. I am fully aware of what the gamestores do and don't fall for it.  Its merely completely stupid.  (For the record I got my Wii day 1 by stupidly freezing my ass off at a Best Buy.)

I refuse to accept the shitstorm of crap EBStop tries to pull.  I'm sorry you are happy with it.  I am not.

Funny, cuz a page or two ago you were raging mad because you did fall for it. I mean no one gets that angry unless they got their hopes up. Like I did with Zelda. I assumed Nintendo wouldn't completely cripple the gamecube version. I was wrong. You assumed there was something in those boxes (or something like that). You were wrong. It's all good man. I just know to preorder everything. I get my preorder goodies and I get my shit on Day 1. Every time. Unless the manufacturer fucks up - but then, can't blame EB for that.

Late to reply, but it's true. We would get marketing directives and you HAD to put that shit out even if you had no copies of whatever they wanted you to display. The reps would come in and check for compliance and get your ass chewed out if you varied in any way.

Honestly, don't hate the EBStop employees that spew the "The company makes me!" line. Cause, that's the gods honest truth. The company is heavy handed and very afraid of anyone under a district manager thinking for themselves and/or making decisions.

You wouldn't believe how much shit I got in from my District Manager for doing this during the PSP launch:
(http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/9864/pspvt9.jpg)

Edit: Who wants to guess which games were on the other side of that wall?

Prolly the PS2 wall?

@ Nix: yup, already been corrected. It's stupid....but hey at least the display boxes (in my store) are not the actual boxes the Wii comes in.

Consumers are familiar with boxes not holding the actual product.  What they usually expect however, is that if there is a box on the shelf then that product is for sale.  What they do not like is seeing a row of boxes on shelves (I don't mean window displays) and not actually having any product to buy.  The point of having stuff on shelves is to display available stock; white space means out of stock.

There is a gap here between what most consumers have been trained to expect, and what some game stores do in practice.  I can't imagine why these stores would do that, because it will come off to many potential customers as deceptive and dishonest.

I decided to sleep in rather than follow up on a solid lead that TRU was going to have 20-30 Wii yesterday.

No, they aren't. Maybe some game consumers are, but that's a small fraction of consumers. Nobody expects to pick up a vacuum cleaner at walmart and have it be an empty box.

Of course, I don't really buy my games from EB whenever possible. The alliteration electronics usually does the trick, usually have a better selection of pc games, and a bigger bargain bin.

Best Buy?  Circuit City? 

That's the first time I've seen someone call 'em that.  That's pretty nifty.

Around here anyway, expensive electronics, DVDs, and the like tend to be either sealed in large heavy plastic boxes with conspicuous ID tags, in a locked glass cabinet, or empty.  Best Buy, WalMart, and Toys R Us do each of those, respectively (well, WalMart here does both 1 & 2).  Stores have always been looking to keep small and expensive, small and desirable, or large and VERY expensive items out of customer's hands.  What is new is misrepresenting stock.  Game consumers find that their purchases often fall into one of those three categories, but they arne't not the only products which do.

I don't believe I ever said I have fallen for it.  Again, I know the shit they pull, it annoys me, and I have empathy for normal people who aren't used to the fucktardery EBStop pulls.
And again, preorders suck ass.  The thought of having to put money down for a product before you even see it, especially in the videogame industry where games can be buggy to the point of damaging a system (hey Pool of Radiance Myth Drannor!) or normally just plain sucking offends and annoys me.

GASP!  Go into a store the day of a highly publicized release and there is enough copies to cover most normal demand?

Who woulda thought?

These days the only things I preorder are:
A: Stuff that gives me cool freebies.  The DS Castlevania Portrait of Ruin preorder perks were fantastic.  Probably the best ever given out with a game. 
B: Games I know will be awesome or titles I won't be able to find easily.  (Super Robot Taisen OG 1-2 aren't easy to find games. Your average EA sports shitfest will glut shelves.)
C: Hard to find toys because the 2 local Walmarts have assy distribution and I don't like hunting down overpriced plastic and diecast statues of my favorite robots in disguise.

For A its also a bit of B in it.  Some games I almost bought just for the freebie then common sense took over.  This would include DoA Xtreme 2 and Lost Planet.  The former was iffy with a mediocre freebie and the latter has a good freebie and good Famitsu scores but its nothing I have to have and will wait for reviews.  (Much like how the DoA game has gotten meh reviews.)

B is the one I do least and tend to be more out of laziness than actual intelligent purchasing decisions.  I rarely do this one, though SRT OG 1 and 2 were obviously grabs.  Plus the iffy games tend to go to budget pricing where I get most titles anyhow.  Some potential B games I didn't get were Super Swing Golf and Metal Slug which I am waiting for more reviews on.  (I know you mentioned Metal Slug but honestly I don't take your game opinions very seriously Schild.  To you Disgaea 2 was a must play masterpiece while I found it totally underwhelming and boring.  And I am a total whore for turn based strategy games.  To the fact I whine when  games use a real time combat engine and not turn based.)

C: Is a thing of convenience and every toy I want has already fallen off the truck in Hong Kong and has reviews up online months in advance.  Plus for me my Transformers are basically statues I can play with and not fragile (And usually assloads cheaper.) so being able to look at a picture lets me know if I want it.

EDIT: Ironically today's Penny Arcade has a newspost and comic devoted to the very things gamestores do that I have bitched about so much and a couple of you have defended.

Well, today they bitched about how gamestores purposely may order enough of a game to fill pre-orders + some (except for huge titles), so they can later generate lots of used sales on the game...they're probably right, and I hate it. Granted, you also have to figure in the fact that these places only have a limited amount of shelf and storage space.

Personally, I only buy used when I have no other choice. And I find some of the prices we sell shit at, when compared to how much credit we gave for the item when it was traded in, to be downright appalling.

I showed up at 5:30 AM to get a Wii at Target and all the tickets had already been passed out.

Oh well, I did have fun playing Wii sports with my friends later that afternoon. Wii sports is really a blast.

You'd be surprised how much space is wasted on shit they just won't recall and get rid of. They're just greedy and want to get used sales on everything. Even things they can't.

Normally I'm not one to link to Penny Arcade comics, but today's just sort of fit in with the conversation here (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/18).

I mean, maybe we could send some of the used Xbricks back, but that would only free up about 5 feet in our store. The one I am at is less than a year old, so we don't have Too much truely useless junk.

Yeah, that's what I was referring to earlier.

For your enjoyment, my Wii story reposted (I "camped" for one this past Saturday):

Was at a housewarming party on Saturday night and we were talking Wii. The girl whose house was being warmed wanted to go get a Wii for her boyfriend for Christmas and another guy was interested too. My wife and I went to Bestbuy just to "check it out" at about 2:30 am. There were 11 people in line already and one claimed that the print ad guaranteed at least 15 Wii's. I was just buzzed enough still to jump out and get in line. I got my two friends to show up by 3am and we were 12th, 14th and 15th in line. The line kept filling slowly and by about 4:30am there were at least 30 people. According to the guy next to me the other two Bestbuy's in the area had already had 18 and 30 people in line at 1:30am (this was a brand new BestBuy in the Signal Hill area of Long Beach and so I guess less people new about it).

It rained twice, just briefly. Overall it was a very cold day for Long Beach (even in December it doesn't usually get that cold here). Fortunately there was an AM/PM across the street with hot cocoa and a toilet. At 6am the BestBuy guy shows up and at 6:30 am they count us off. At this point there are about 50-60 people there already. He counts off 24 Wii's worth and tells everyone else to go home (a few hopefuls stay in case someone's credit card gets rejected or something but everyone else goes). At 7am they hand out tickets and we get ours. Then at 8am we get to go in. Between 6:30 and 8:30 there were probably at least 50 people who tried to get in line. The routine was: a bunch of people would get in line; we'd tell them that they'd already counted off the number of Wii's they had or handed out tickets and a few would leave; the rest would stay until the BestBuy guy came out and said, "what the fuck are you guys doing here, didn't they tell you we're out?"

Finally got my Wii at 8:30am. They had all the games I wanted (Elebits, Trauma Center and Zelda) but no cables or extra joysticks. Slept until 2pm and then got to playing. So far: Elebits isn't as good as I wanted it to be, Trauma Center is better and Zelda, which I had no expectations of (haven't played a Zelda seriously since the NES) is pretty good.

First time I've "camped out" for a console.

Other randomness:
-- At 4am I regaled the line with Johnny Cash hits.
-- #6 in line sold his spot to someone for $100.
-- #2 and #3 in line were a Grandmother and friend getting Wii's for the grandkids.
-- One of the guys I went with had camped out 4 times for consoles before and only got one once.
-- Cops were hanging out from 6am on.  This being Long Beach I was actually kinda glad they were there.
-- A mom came at 8am and, upon finding out she wouldn't get a spot, tried (and I think succeeded) to trade her PS3 that she'd gotten earlier for a Wii+Cash.
-- Goodwill with my wife over all this was assured by letting her buy a pair of $200 jeans.
-- We are moving this week and had a mish mash of clothes and stuff left in our car. I ended up wearing my wife's jacket with way-too-short sleeves and a crazy ski hat. I looked like a hobo who got dressed with random crap from a Nordstrom's dumpster.

Much craziness. In the end, worth it for the good stories if nothing else (I still have a few days off before starting a new job so the sleep loss wasn't that big of a deal).

Now back to Trauma Center.

Trauma Center is better than Zelda.

On that note, best title for the system thus far imo? Super Swing Golf. Sure, it's the golf loli-fest, but it's one hell of a fun party title from the guys behind Fatal Frame.

This is very true. It also means consumers end up wasting a ton of fucking time in lines waiting to ask the staff if they have any of item x in stock, so the salesdroids can tell the people for the 985th time that day that sorry we're out of stock.

Went and did the big shop today. Big supermarket run, took all that shit home, then I decided we should go do the final Christmas shopping stuff (ie I wanted to buy me some Star Wars figurines). Bought myself a Lego Soccer game (which my Mum will "give" to me) then wandered over to Big W's console area. I saw their Wii display boxes there and thought fuckit, I'll buy one. No prices on display though, and only about 4 games, no accessories. They were out. Went downstairs to JB Hi-Fi and where the other game place used to be (it had disappeared) and they had a series of lines 9 people deep. They had empty Wii boxes too, with prices, but they also had PS2 boxes with PS2s in them, taped up. On the sales floor where you could pick them up and look at them. Their Wii boxes were empty because they were also sold out (I rang the store I was standing inside to avoid the queue to ask if they had the things in stock).

We split up. She went to EB, I went to TRU. EB had boxes on the shelves and price signs everywhere, naturally, but no stock. TRU had a limited number of display boxes but had 2 left. The guy held one for me while i waited for her to get back, some other peopel came and bought the other one. We got the last one int he entire mall, it seemed.

So anyway. Out of 4 retailers, 4 of them had empty boxes on the shelves. 2 had prices up, 1 had the product actually in stock, (but I'm sure they didnt take the boxes down after we left), and 1 had boxes with consoles in them on the floor (literally, stacked on the floor).

So anyway, got a Wii on a whim and with about 30 minutes of footwork. I feel sorry for those people who camped for it and were otherwise disappointed though. We got the Wii Sports and whatever that other game is that comes packed with a second wiimote. We'll open it Monday. Also got some wiimote covers and replacement wrist straps in case I decide to play after pleasuring myself but forget to hose myself down first.

So what are the games that are worthwhile, as in not one-day gimmicks or stuff that's better played on a normal console?

Zelda, if you like Zelda and are not named Eric Schild.  :wink:

Yes.  It's one of the best games of the year (not the, but one of).  Trauma Center is supposedly a good game - my wife and her brother love it.  I can't stand it, but because it's not my type of game.  Red Steel is just ok, but can be fun because of using the Wiimote for targeting.  Consider it an average FPS + Wiimote goodness.  Super Monkey Ball is ok.  Some people really enjoy it, but I found the controls difficult to work with.  Good party game.  Marvel is an ok game - it's an isometric action fragfest.  Walk around, slice enemies to bits.  You get to upgrade your characters as you go, and have an assortment of powers available to you.  Think original Gauntlet. 

Zelda, definitely. Call of Duty 3 is a pretty good linear scripted FPS, that uses the Wiimote for purposes other than targeting sparingly. A few uses of it work, a few don't work quite as well. Still worth it. I think Red Steel is a damn good game. A bit short, but the sword-fighting is pure luv. I haven't played enough Marvel Ultimate Alliance, but so far it feels a lot like a tacked-on port. As I get more games in the rental queue, I'll be updating my blog with impressions.

I'm not sold on Zelda, really. I played, enjoyed and finished Link to the Past on SNES, I got the (first) one on the N64, (Wind Walker, maybe? He had a horse you could summon by whistling) and it was ok but I walked away from it at some point and then forgot what I was doing when I came back to it a couple months later, and then just discarded it. Never played the cel-shaded one.. so yeah, not sure on the Zeldas.

Marvel Universe, I've played a little on the PS2 (rental) - is there any real difference to the Wii to justify waving a wand around instead of just button mashing besides bolted-on gimmickery?

COD, I'm not sure on. A FPS with those controls seems both intriguing and daunting. Do you get raped by snipers you can't target properly without a mouse? Same with Red Steel I guess, but it's getting really mixed reviews, and at $100, I'm not really thinking a massive gamble is great, especially when it'll be marked right down soon. I guess it seems like it might be the Toh Shin Den of the Wii. Shiny at first, but discarded pretty fast.

I don't think Trauma Center is released here yet. Are we talking that old "operation" boardgame in Wii form?

Saw a Tony Hawk game in the shop this morning, a racing game with trucks or something, something thats a movie tie-in with penguins, Rayman.

Someone here was talking about Rayman earlier and saying it was fun. Anyone have more info/opinions on it?

edit - they also had Far Cry.

The controls for both COD and Red Steel are pretty good. They are almost as accurate as a mouse/keyboard combo, almost. The biggest hitch is letting the pointer drift to the side of the screen, resulting in your viewpoint twisting around in a death spiral. The motion based controls are a mixed bag. Some of them work well (the tank mini-game, the driving game once you get used to it) and some do feel tacked on.

Every once else has liked Red Steel less than I did. I dug it hard. I'd suggest you rent both of them if you're unsure and if that's possible. If not, wait until they go down in price. As for Zelda, I've never played a Zelda game all the way through, and I love Twilight Princess. YMMV.

CoD3 on the Wii was the only console shooter I have managed to play more than 5 minutes of. I even finished in fact. The controls are not quite as snipe a single pixel precise as a mouse but the feel is fantastic and I find myself worrying less about sniping pixels and more about shooting and moving to a better position while the enemy's head is down.

Friends of mine got Rayman for me today for Christmas, and I've put maybe an hour into it.  I like it.  Stuffed full of minigames that you can knock out each in about 5 min, so it's a good party game or something to play in short spurts.  The style of the game is a riot; we took turns playing and were laughing all around.  It's mostly silly things - like, there's a jump rope game, where you have to flick the Wiimote in time with the rope.  The speed varies, and the better your timing the more points you get.  Every so often, one of the rabbits sitcks its face over the "camera" and makes a face at you to distract you.  In another game, you have to shoot rabbits with a plunger-gun.  I was in stitches when a Ghost Recon rabbit came down on a rope and stealthed around behind some trees.  I got funny looks from them not getting the game's reference.  Go Ubi.

I don't know how much replay value it has, but it's a good party game.  I do like the controls MUCH better than what I ran into in Super Monkey Balls.  I'll also admit that we haven't played 2 player yet; we didn't see where you select it, but no one cared enough to look.  Supposedly it supports up to 4. 

Here's a question for you - how does virtual console work? I notice the Wii has no HDD, and my console is not going to be in a spot where I can really string the blue cable of love across to it due to the house's layout, and I'm not in the market for a 7 or 8-port wireless router and a ton of recievers for all my devices.

So can I plug the Wii into my net connection, download a couple of games, then disconnect the cable and relax? Or does the console download the games in question each time you want to play them, rendering Virtual Console useless unless you're wired permanently?

The Wii comes with some internal memory, but you going to want to buy a 1gb or 2gb memory card eventually.

But right now, the VC sucks.

You don't need a net connection to play VC games. The Wii has 512MB of internal memory and space for SD cards (I think they're SD...). Anyway, yea, considering most of these roms cap out at a MB, you should be ok.

Edit: Ok, I had a little more information than Strazos. But he's right. The VC pretty much blows at the moment. Hell, everything involving the Wii and Online Anything blows. I'm pretty sure we can all agree on that.

Hey thats ok.

My main interest in it is to be able to download the odd SNES game if I want to.

Are the memory cards regular SD memory, or proprietry Ninty ones? And I assume the VC games come with some form of DRM forever linked to the console they were downloaded to? So you cant lend them or take them to a mate's place and if your console borks under warranty you're SOL (like the X-Box)?

List of VC stuff for NA. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Virtual_Console_titles_%28North_America%29)

What I don't understand is what the hold-up is. How fucking hard is it to put these small, small files on the VC server. Does it take That Long to convert them into a form playable on the Wii?

I'd also be interesting in finding out if there is anything special/different with the Nintendo-branded SD cards. Do they come with some kind of software instruction on the SD, or are they easily replaced by off-the-shelf SD cards from Newegg?

EDIT: I imagine if you save the ROMs to the SD card, you should be able to play over at a friend's house on their unit. Also, if the cards are not some proprietary format, you might even be able to load stuff onto your PC and copy to other cards, but who knows. I'm not sure Nintendo is That Naive.

The odd SNES game has to show up before you can download them and that's Nintendo's problem right now. I can see them managing the release of every NES title. But Squeenix, Capcom, Konami, and a few other houses will be hard pressed to let Ninty release their shit again.

Edit: Nothing proprietary about the memory cards.

Edit 2: Strazos, the holdup is licensing. Even on the VC, companies don't want to compete with the likes of Mario 3 and Link to the Past.

Edit 3: Donkey Kong Country is an upcoming release? A Rare title? Must be because of 1. Microsoft getting a cut and 2. the Donkey Kong license. Microsoft probably couldn't do anything with it... ever. Better to make money than let it sit in a closet forever.

What do you mean compete? I'm not disagreeing with you, but if that's their mindset, it's fucking stupid I think. Do they not want free fucking money from letting their ancient titles be available for inflated prices on the VC? What harm does it do them?

Also Schild, can you confirm on the SD cards? Have you tried a stock card instead of N's in the Wii and had it work? That would be pretty funny.

I don't think the Wii even has a rj-45 hole.  I could go find those upskirt pics of it, but I'll be using the wireless anyway.  I am also waiting for a bit to get one.  My current mental milestone is "when I finish Okami".

On a related note, I'm glad the PS3 had a port for an ethernet cable since the WiFi simply did not work with my router until I updated it from 1.10 to 1.11, which caused me no end of irritation.  Also the PS online "game store" isn't anything to be proud of, either.  Quite the opposite, I felt like I needed to take a bath after looking in there.  Brave new world.

Nintendo has repeatedly stated that they are going to trickle out VC titles.  They openly admit they are doing so in order to avoid having a huge wad of games on release and then nothing for the next four years.  Also: Schild is right about licensing.  Companies are wacky about their IP licenses.

At least they have Gunstar Heroes. I'd pay the 500 points for that, but I think most of the other games in that range are overpriced at 500 points. I think 350 would have been better.

Doesn't Nintendo own DKC? Sure, rare made it, but they were owned by Ninty at the time, so it would have been essentially work-for-hire?



Now that would be retarded. I'd look, but mine is boxed and wrapped up for Monday.

Looking at the lineup, I'd go a Zelda III, and maybe a Gunstar Heroes. No sign of the TG-16 games here in Aust.

Yea, dollar for dollar, Nintendo is ripping people off in the VC shop. I mean, PS1 games on the PS3 cost like $5.99 or something. How much was Super Mario 64? $8? $10? I don't even remember, all I remember is lolling and not buying it.

Microsoft on the other hand is bringing classic games on the cheap and brand spanking new arcadey games for less than the cost of a single movie ticket. They have _got_their_shit_together with XBL. Though I think they should do 1 classic release and 1 new release, just to speed things up a bit. And no more poker/uno theme cop-outs for the weekly release.

The only two games I've bought on VC so far are two Turbo Grafx 16 games - Bonk's Adventure and Bomberman 93. Bomberman is insanely fun five player, but getting the fifth controller to work is a bitch. If you have two Wii remotes on ports one and two, and you have a Gamecube controller plugged into ports 2 and 3, the Gamecube controller and the Wii controller on port 2 control the same guy. So, you have to have two Wii remotes (which I have) going on 1 and 2, and plug Gamecube controllers into 2, 3, and 4 on the Wii, and have the Gamecube controller hold down R when you start the game, and it assigns it to player 5.

Took me a while to figure that one out.

You can go either wireless (B/G), or USB to ethernet.  Nintendo sells a wireless USB thing that you can hook into your PC to setup a simple network for the Wii as well.  Games for VC are downloaded and saved on either the internal memory, or SD card (non proprietary stuff can be used).  You are also able to delete games if you need the space, and redownload at no extra cost.  You cannot transfer to any other Wii - there is protection in place to prohibit other Wiis from playing VC games you download.  Sorta have to do that, since there's no other way to prevent rampant copying once you get them onto an SD card.

I hate "hold the button while it starts up" bullshit.  I'm not some sort of caveman.

Heh, I'm surprised they even support the 5th player in Bomberman.

Also, Mario64: $10 on VC. Ouch. Does that come with some KY warming gel or something?

EDIT: Nintendo seriously needs to come down on those VC point prices.

Whenever you make a superfluous edit, a baby angel kicks Baby Jesus in his baby balls.

Yeah, the price point is really the swift kick to the balls. I cautiously drop dollars here and there with the current price point, but if they dropped it, I'd probably spend MUCH more.

I'm a horrible person to judge these things on, though, because I'm willing to spend a lot of money on entertainment.

When am I ever going to play Small Arms again on the 360? Who knows. Impulse buy.

Plus, I have Lumines 2 now. Why would I go back and play Lumines Live?

It does not have an ethernet port. If you have a WiFi router, it connects to that. If you don't, you can buy the DS USB adapter. Hook the USB adapter up to an broadband-connected PC and the Wii sees it as a WiFi access point and uses that. I think they are coming out with an ethernet wired adapter, but it ain't here yet.

The Sega prices are the worst. 800 poits (8 bucks) for any Sega game. I wonder if that is Nintendo's or Sega's doing? Probably Sega's, since the TG-16 games are 600 points a piece.

What can I say about F13?  It's really my favorite website in the entire universe!  I love the irreverent banter and sly wit these keyboard jockeys produce.  And I especially love the staff, they're AWESOME.

I'll take Sonic for the price of a lunch at Subway. Although I agree it would be a lot nicer at $2 cheaper, $50 for 5-8 games is fine with me.

What a crock of shit that Wireless adaptor is (and it's pricing). Not having an ethernet port on the back is just bullshit.

The problem with VC is the prices are higher than the same pricepoint for the ACTUAL cartridges at Game Crazy. I'd know. I was there last night. Sure, I bought some totally rare shit that cost more, but your average price? Less. And VC isn't exactly filling up with hard to find shit.

How is Game Crazy, actually? Apparently, there are some where I live, but I've never seen one. Do they stock old stuff normally, unlike EBStop?

Nintendo is releasing some VC games on Christmas Day. They are:


I'd be tempted to get the Street Fighter or R-Type games.

I've never even heard of Urban Champion.

The original SF2 for SNES is so slow, I would wait for HF. R-Type would be cool, as would Toe Jam and Earl. (Never played it)

Yes, but you're missing one of the key points for the VC that appeals to "folks not us."   Many of them sold/ threw-out their old consoles years ago when they upgraded to the new shiny. So even if they CAN get the cart cheaper, it doesn't mean they can play it.  Also, it's a cart, and you know how notorious they are for not working without fiddling.

That's before you even start figuring in the number of us who previously mentioned (in other threads) that we simply don't want to hook 3-4 consoles up to our TVs. Wire management is already a pain in the ass just for one Console, Cable, DvD player & Stereo.

I still wish the prices would come down. I mean, come on...there's no physical product to deal with; just teeny, tiny files. Some of those I would want....but $8 is a bit of a stretch.

I'd imagine some of it is the dev time to build the emulator that they run on, and making sure they actually run.  They're implying a certain reliability that you don't often get from PC emulators and warez'd ROMs.

--
Alkiera

I know, but $8 for those just seems high to me. If they dropped it down to $6, I know I personally would end up buying more games. Like, I could buy 2 for just over $10. But right now, those same 2 games would cost me almost $20.

Since this USB thingy isnt available here in Aust yet, I decided to check eBay US for them. I found a lot of Chinese sellers with quite different WiFi USB thingys which they all tout as being great for the Wii/PS3/360/laptop/etc. So, I have a couple of questions:

1) Will these work ok?

2) How does this work, if my main PC is already on a LAN/Network via a router?

3) Is there a way to create a secure wireless network with such a simple device?

4) I read a review of the Ninty one that explained the software that came with it has a thing so you explicitly allow certain devices (and certain Wiis) to connect, and only those can. Do
these Chinese cheapos allow anything like that?

5) For that matter my MoBo came with a wireless network access point thing, with a little antenna. I have no doubt I could set it up as a WiFi point of some sort. Should I just hook that up and skip the USB dongle? Though questions 2) and 3) still apply

I've no idea the quality of the Chinese stuffs.  The premise is that you plug the USB thing into your PC, which is a wireless antena; your Wii/DS can pick it up and connect.  Your PC serves as a software router to go through your LAN, then to your internet connect.  If you have XP and a wireless in your PC, you could try to skip the purchase.  Supposedly XP can serve as a software router, but I've never set it up.

If I already have a wireless router in the house, I'm golden, correct?

Yes.

So long as it is B or G, yes.  You may need to fiddle with it to get the Wii to work.  For example, if you lock down wireless access by MAC address, you'll need to enable the Wii's address.  Shouldn't be anything drastic involved though - mine got on easily.

Goddamn Best Buy. I get a bunch of gift cards for Christmas and the one game I want to spend them on for the Wii is sold out (Madden). Fuckers. They didn't even have Wii Game Points cards.

I finally got around to playing Marvel Ultimate Alliance enough to make a competent blog post about it. You know how you PC users felt when Deus Ex 2 was made for the console and essentially ported to the PC? Yeah, it's like that.

So the parents took the kids for the afternoon/ evening to let the wife and I have a good time on New Years.  While dropping them off, my dad mentioned he'd seen the Wii when my nephew's father brought it over, and now wanted one.  (The man's 63, and never video-gamed in his life.)    So I was given a mission - try and find one.

Motherfucker I visited every electronics store, gamestore, Target, etc from my houst to my Sister's on the other side of Cinci.  Not a single fucking Wii out there.  They said they couldn't keep the DS Lite in stock either, which surprised me.  Several were all too happy to point at the PS3's and 360s in stock in cases I wanted to settle.  The Best Buys alone had almost 60 PS3's between the two I visited. 

This both amuses and frustrates the hell out of me.

60 PS3's? Shit. I need to check around my own town then. I assumed I wouldn't see anything like that for months.

In other news, my PS2 crapped out on me. It's almost necessary that I get a new console now.

Almost 60, yes.  I specifically counted the number on the palette at the BB near me. There were 27 on it.  The BB near my sister had a similar-sized palette a similar height stack of boxes. So ok.. 54, not 60.   :-D :roll:

There were several large piles of PS3s at the Seattle (Renton) Fry's (all one of the bundles), so if there are Fry's in your area, you may want to check there.  They also had a mountain of PS2s and XBox360s, which were getting more attention than the PS3s.

So why get a PS3 right now?  Down the road it might have something, but for right now it's bupkiss.  There's just zero reason to own one at the moment.  The Wii brings a new controller, the 360 is the very best online rig, and well, the PS3 is big and black isn't it?

If you don't want a 360 I'd buy a cheapass PS2 for the shortrun.  The PS3 is a waste as it currently stands.

Yes, you speak the truth. I'll admit it.

PS3 titles suck, and probably will for at least another 6 months.

I just have a natural inclination to reject Microsoft. Took me a long time to get an XBox too (and have since given it away).

The Wii rocks, but I'm afraid of change.

I still don't have a Wii and it is driving me fucking crazy. Here I am with a pretty long vacation from work and no Wii.

Damn I should have budged in front of those kids when I had the chance!

SHODULD HAVE GOTTEN A 3670.

To hell with the 360 (for now...).

I cringe at the thought of Microsoft being in command of the console industry. No good thing could come from it. I won't support them until I'm guaranteed they'll be no better than second place -- and even then, I'll buy a used 360, like I did the first Xbox.

Right now, it isn't so clear where they stand.

Consider me inspired by Schild's crazy ideas about boycotting.

Neither Sony nor Nintendo is any better. Nintendo seal of approval my balls.

Bah.

I think I'll just get my DS back and go crazy with game purchases for now. Or a PSP. Maybe buy a shitload of Dreamcast games too.

The state of consoles is not for me at the moment.

Why not? The DS has tons of great games on it, the 360 has some Extremely good (if not great) games AND the great Live service, and the Wii is looking good (to me anyway).

I have nothing against the Wii really. It's just that I only want one new console at the moment -- I'm going to buy a new computer as it is. And the Wii is the last thing I'd want for a "general purpose" gaming machine. It may be cool and all, but it's still a gimmick (with substandard hardware at that). It's an ideal second console for me, not a primary one. I'll get it later.

Dude. PSP.

Best System of the Year.

Due to Sony's blunders and the hacking community's pile of awesome.

Heh, had a guy trade in a PSP yesterday. He forgot to take out the memory. Someone (not me) got a free 1GB stick.

It mostly had a bunch of rap tracks, and pictures. Some were of Vida Guerra. Others were of women who made me want to vomit - think of pound cakes implanted in the ass.

Yeah. I didn't need to see that 5 minutes after I walk into the store.

You need to a do a PSP Revisted article, like you did with the DS.

Well, thanks to the video library around the corner, I've rented CoD3, Red Steel, Monkey Ball and Zelda.

Have only had a play around with RS and CoD3, and all I can say is that I'm glad I rented them to try 'em out. Aside from "Holy low-res graphics Batman!", the Wii's FPS control scheme doesn't do anything for me at all.

I played about 5 minutes of CoD and just found the graphic quality combined with awkward controls to be horrible, and I played through the first level of RS and found the exact same thing. I didn't even get up to the point of waving my Wiimote around to swing a sword. Better than CoD3, but still, just fucking horrible.

I'll stick to the PC for my shooters. I never liked the dual-analog control method for console shooters, and honestly I find the waving around to be even worse. I'm sure some of you will think I'm not giving these games a chance, and you're right. I'm not. There's too much good software out there that doesn't hurt my arms and require me to squint in the hopes of seeing the low-res guy I'm shooting at for me to bother with this.

Of course, some people will really get into it, and you know, more power to you. That's cool, just like the millions of people who loved Halo/2 (and presumably, Gears of War) with their dual-analog controller schemes. But like that, the Wii's method is just not one that floats my bag of rocks.

Impressions of Monkey Ball and Zelda later. I suspect though, that Bowling will remain the star attraction for this particular box for some time..

Wii Sports Tennis is awesome. Easily my favorite Wii game right now. (From what I've played) My friend and I are both pretty good, have some really competitive games. We also like to do Golf with the trick that turns off all the meters and maps.

Really Wii Sports is the game of the year, easily. It is just pure fun.

My friends and I all play every golf game with a "No Practice Swings" rule. It actually, somehow, makes the games much more enjoyable and challenging. Managed to get a gold medal on the target practice.

Next, I guess I'll suggest the no map thing. That could be funny. How does it work?

Can't seem to find a PSP anywhere. Strange. Didn't think it was that much in demand.


Also, the more I think about it, I think the PS3 pricing is fair as hell. I might just pony up for the $599 system tomorrow. I get hdmi, a blu-ray for dirt cheap, and wifi without paying extra. The 360 with wifi and hd-dvd will cost $699 -- and that's without a 60GB hard drive, and probably just inferior power in general.

Ricky Bobby and Fight Night can hold me off for awhile. MotorStorm and Virtua Fighter will be out in no time.

* Sorry for talking PS3, but you guys can afford one derail in your two Wii threads. ;)

Heh, let me do it for him:

Ohh wait, no games to list.. just the entire PS1 library.

I am swimming in awesome.  Went from disappointment of the year to pulling off a minor miracle. WEEEEE.

Lumines, Katamari, Ace Combat, Daxter, Tekken, and *gasp* the Sims could all keep me entertained. Especially on a handheld.

UMD pisses me off though.

There are good games, no doubt.  You could add Field Commander, Virtua Tennis, and any of the GTA releases were pretty decent.  FIFA games and the X-Men Legends 2 games were rather fun also but not exclusives.  I'm pretty sure the DS had better exclusives.

At least right now, that's debatable, and it really depends on the game.

Also, have fun with that cheap BD player when you wear it out in less than 2 years, just like every other first-gen Sony product. What, you don't actually think they'd put top-of-the-line BD parts in there when they're already losing money, do ya?

I think the 360 is the better deal personally (of course mine came with a $100 gift card as part of a deal at TRU).  Now I'm not a huge MS fan myself, nor did I ever buy the old Xbox, but I just think the 360 has the better game lineup.  Mind you I'm just sick of FF and MGS, and didn't care for any of the Devil May Cry games after the first one.  Obviously there are people who will be excited about those games.  Aside from the possiblities of sequels to Shadow of the Colossus and God of War, there are no exclusives on the PS3 the interest me much (though I'm curious to see how Lair and Heavenly Sword Turn out).

For the 360, I really am loving Dead Rising (though the small fucking text alone makes me want to go out and buy an HDTV just to avoid eye strain) and Gears of War and there's a ton of other shit coming out this year I'm interested in.

I personally don't care about FF and MGS either, but generally speaking, the type of exclusives Sony or Nintendo tap into excite me more than the kind that MS taps into. They have their hand on the console market in a way that MS doesn't. All of Microsoft's exclusives (outside Team Ninja and Blue Dragon) revolve around typical gun based action gameplay of some sort. Gears, Chromehounds, Lost Planet, Mass Effect, Bioshock, and Halo 3 are or will be fun enough, but at a glance, it's like they're all the same damn game. Different genres or not. Same theme at least. I expect more variety and unique themes from Sony.

MS seems pretty intent on replicating a sort of PC online gaming experience too -- It's like their niche or something. And I have no use for it. It doesn't impress in the way it impresses Johnny Xboxgamer. I already have a PC. I'm not interested in FPS's on a console whenever I don't have to be.

Besides shooters, they'll probably lay hold of the MMO market. Nothing I'm excited about either.

Other than that, they'll have the same generic titles everyone else will have (the Maddens, Tony Hawks, and Need for Speeds of the gaming world).

I'll probably buy a used 360 when Ninja Gaiden 2 comes out.

The no maps thing in Wii golf is done by holding 2 (I think) when you select that game.

There is no wind indicator, no power meter and no overhap map in the corner. No club names either. (Although it's easy enough to tell what you are using) You have to judge the wind by looking at the screen for wispy trails and judge distance by eye. Pretty difficult to make Iron shots sometimes without going way under or over.

Irony, thy name is Stray.

What do you think the PS3 is going to give you besides a cheap Blu-Ray player? Final Fantasy and MSG, the games you mentioned earlier, are the exact definition of what you accuse Microsoft of here. The PSX exclusives are iterations on the same previous themes, only they aren't necessarily shooters. If you don't like the shooters (which I can see you don't) that's one thing, but to say that Microsoft is being repetitive with exclusives as if Sony isn't, well that's just flat wrong.

I should have a review of Madden for the Wii up in the next day or two. Short version: I like it, better than other versions.

Sure they all have the same theme if you consider "the character you play uses guns" as a theme.  Mass Effect is an RPG.  It's going to play completely different from Gears of War regardless of the fact that you shoot guns in both.  That's like saying that DMC and MGS both revolve against gun based action gameplay (and yes, apparently Kojima has said that you will be able to get through MGS4 without much use of stealth if you choose).

Never said I didn't like shooters. I'd go so far as to say that I like them and play them more than most people at this site. My only point is that those aren't the kind of titles that'll win me over to the 360. I already have the best shooter platform on earth -- it'll curtail whatever shooter fix I need for the time being. I can wait a bit for the few gems that the 360 has. Shooters, online capability, and general American sci-fi sensibilities are not what I look for in a console.

If I had a PS3, it's not likely I'll jump up and buy Killzone either.

I fucking hate Space Marines.

For a console, I look for things I just can't get anywhere else -- Unique Japanese titles like Katamari, Ico/Collosus, or Okami; horror titles like Silent Hill; platformers in general; action adventure ala GoW or Devil May Cry; both wacky and robust sim racers like ATV Offroad Fury/Motorstorm and Gran Turismo; Japanese sports, fighting, and party games.

As for Mass Effect being an RPG, I know. I'm just mentioning it because it still seems to be targeting the same American sci-fi shooter market that Microsoft is good at. And just speaking on gameplay terms, I'm skeptical anyhow. I thought Jade Empire was boring. I'm not the Bioware fan that I used to be.

In regards to cheap Sony parts, that's what makes Target's $59 three-year service plan so nice.  It even specifically warrants against normal wear-and-tear.  I'll trade in my PS3 for a new one in 2.5 years just on the GP.  I also plan to get the Wii at Target for the same reason.

So I just bought the 60GB model. Tony Hawk and Resistance (yay shooters lol).

All I can say is that Resistance is very Meh after playing Gears of War or Rainbow 6 Vegas. Especially on a console.

The thing about the PS3 is that its kind of tanking.  The reason the PS2 got so huge was it had a massive install base thus the wacky games were worth taking a risk on.
With a system whose games need to sell a half million to eeke out a profit you aren't going to see much innovation.  Its going to primarily host games that play to the EA formula of keeping it safe and pretty much being the exact same fucking game you played last year, cept with graphical improvements and a tweak or two.

These innovative wacky titles?  Its all going DS.  The DS is a phenomenon, especially in Japan which seems to be where most of the modern innovative games are coming from (which is sadly the opposite of how it used to be, but the EA hivemind decreed innovation bad, art bad, creativity bad, and anything else good about gaming BAD.) and the king system gets the cream of the crop.

Dragon Quest 9 which to Japan is like Halo, Madden, and GTA COMBINED is coming out for the DS.  The PS3 lost the current era console war in Japan with that single announcement.

Even in the US the PS3 is already taking hits from the press (even the gaming press which largely sucks game company dick and LOVES IT) and its gone from shortages to being relatively available.
Hell, I saw the system in a store this weekend.  I had money.  I laughed at it and passed.  This is coming from a person who has a shitload of videogame systems.  Hell, I defend the N Gage (QD anyhow), and I simply can't find a reason to own a PS3.

Blu Ray?  Im happy with DVDs.  I don't have a HD TV yet but I probably will within the next 6-7 months.  Its a matter of having use of a friend's minivan and if Apple decides to put HD inputs on the next gen of iMacs or not mostly.

Games?   What games?  Stuff I don't want on my 360 mostly?

Nobody I am friends with wants the thing, yet they all want Wiis, and some want 360s and DSes as well.  3 of us already have Wiis, and a 4th is planning on one as soon as he can find it.

The Wii is picking up steam.  The PS3 is losing it.

Am I saying the PS3 won't have any compelling games in the future or that I won't ever pick one up?  Nope.  When the 60 gigger hits a sub 300 price I will probably grab one if there are some good games by then.  Right now my only Sony purchase will be a slimline PS2 once it hits 100 bucks to replace my 3001 model which is getting fidgety with blue bottom disks and I will be damned if I let myself be without modern era Wizardry goodness because of shoddy Sony hardware.

I only got it because it's the only desirable PS3 exclusive of the bunch right now. I wanted something else besides a port.

..Though 40 people online isn't a bad deal.

Will see..

While I'd say it is too early to say the Wii is smoking the PS3, even IGN noted that PS3s were available on store shelves while the Wii was nowhere to be found. (ironic considering the shortage of PS3 compared to Wii). So yeah, it is looking bad, and honestly, I'm enjoying it. Sony got arrogant, much like cartridge-era Nintendo and is paying the price.

That said, the only system seller for the Wii I see currently is Zelda and the packaged in sports game.

I wouldn't doubt the Wii could smoke the PS3. I'll get one eventually too. At launch time, that's all I was looking at.

I can only hope that this provides some impetus for Sony to fix their fucking BC problem.  And the "Sixaxis takes a nap" problem.  Jain is right about the compelling PS3 games.  To me, the compelling PS3 games are really PS1 and PS2 games.  I am actually able to play games that won't even boot in my PS2, or do so only after numerous DREs.  Too fucking bad for me that I can't play FFXII and Okami on it.

The loss of expected exclusives was a management blunder, and that might be fixed (will be hard to fix that DQ9 one, though; good call), and it might also be bandaged with everyone's favorite Band-Aid: retro gaming.  They need to magically fix the BC problems, and offer something other than eye-gouging bullshit on their online store.

I'm not really sad I bought it, but it is postponing my PC upgrade and causing me a mild bout of rage.

That's the other thing...I started talking about the PS3 in this thread because my PS2 just konked out. Since Playstation games were my main source of gaming entertainment, I can now resume again with teh PS3. Killing two birds with one stone etc.. I get a PS1/2 and a next gen console with one purchase.

I have nothing against the Wii -- It's just gimmicky, lacking in shiny, and not the ideal primary console for me right now. I'll get one though.

Yet tons of previous games don't actually run on the PS3.  And many more have problems.
While it has a deeper backwards compatibility than the 360 does, its not perfect or even decent.

I have a massive amount of PS1 and 2 games.  I am a serious retrogamer and collector.  The thought of never being able to play game X again frightens and upsets me to the point of wanting backup rechargable batteries for my N Gage, DS, and PSP in case they konk out and I lose access to certain games.  (And not being able to play Pathway to Glory would be a VERY bad and no good thing.)

Its not even worth it for backwards comp yet.

Will Sony fix it?  Hopefully.  Hell, with all the emulator tech out there I see no reason for some of the PS1 emulator functions to be in the PS3.  Improved resolution, smoothing, antialiasing, zbuffer fixes, and increased loading speeds should be a no brainer.

I'm not going to try and convince you of it's worth, nor do I have an asston of retro games, but I think it's pretty cool. So far so good. I'm glad I got it out of the way.

So far though there are no Katamari's (if you like quirky/unique stuff though, the 360 has Viva Pinata), Silent Hill's, Shadow of the Collosus, or God of War's announced though.  Party games?  Probably be better to go with the Wii.  Fighting?  With VF5 going multiplatform I think Tekken 6 now is the only fighting game announced that is PS3 exclusive.  It seems like you bought a PS3 because you're expecting it to have the same kind of lineup as the PS2, but it's a little too early to know if that's going to be the case.

Yeah, I was just contrasting both Sony and Nintendo against MS. Like I said, I plan to get both. As for the 360, I plan to hold off for a long while. Probably when I can get a used 20GB system for under $250. Preferably less. Or if something unexpected comes up.

Between the PS3 and Wii, I plan on getting a PSP, a new PC or Mac, and getting more DS games. That's my plan and I'm sticking to it ;).

...

I have to chuckle at some Jain Zar's comments though. He has an N-Gage and a Palm, and he's spreading (just a bit of) FUD about the PS3. Heh.

Like I said elsewhere, even if the PS3 was a miscalculation on Sony's part, they aren't going anywhere anytime soon. True console failures are those who fail on their first try (3DO, CDI, etc). If Sega is any indication, it'll take a decade before Sony ditches the console business. Sega miscalculated time and time again after the Genesis, and look how long it took them to pack it up.

Sony has already established themselves in the past two generations. It's impossible to unseat them within one generation. If they lost a quarter, or even half, of their popularity, they'd still have more resources and capabilities to work with than the Microsoft will.

I'm confident that two years from now, they'll be kicking ass -- and Microsoft will already be thinking about putting out a new console.

Sony pretty much sucked for party games with the PS2 given that it only had two controller ports.  On the other hand my favorite party game of the last couple years has been playing the Crash modes in the Burnout games, which only uses one controller at a time anyway.

Which means I am MORE open to the values a system has.  Since most people bandwagon.  Generally anyone mocking the N Gage has never played Pathway to Glory, which is honestly worth the admission cost alone.  Its some damned good turn based RPGing.  Its like a WW2 top down X Com with only combat.

And the Palm is more a handy gadget I wouldnt have thought about if it wasnt for some Ultima remakes.  (Hell, an Ultima remake is the only reason to buy Dungeon Siege!) 
Ive already installed a diceroller and am jamming it full of gaming PDFs so I don't have to carry so many books with me.  Necromunda and Blood Bowl rules in my pocket?  Sweet!
(I just have to get my torrent happy friends to find me PDFs of my RPG and wargame books now.)  Its got a couple of nice looking wargames and RPGs for it which makes it another device I never knew I needed till I bought it.  Like my iPod or my NGage.  (Never had a cellphone before it.  I love the security of having a cellphone, and I like my Go Phone plan which is basically a no commitment if you don't use however many minutes you bought but remember to buy more before 3 months runs out it cycles over thing.  I bought it to play Pocket Kingdom and Pathway to Glory.  I keep it because it has other uses.  And the hours I work don't exactly make a car breakdown a nice proposition.  430 AM on backroads is not the time or place one would want to walk 4-10 miles to a payphone!)

And this is why the PS3 bites it right now.  Its too expensive and doesn't have much to recommend it.  Its really a system the launch is crap for.  Of course many systems bite the first year and are generally worth getting after the first year/price reduction.  Compare year 1 DS games to now.  Compare the 360 to now.  Even the Wii is gonna have a load of much more compelling games in a year than it does now.  (Of course it has Zelda and the Virtual Console which is great, but it is understandable that folks might want more for it.)

I honestly wouldn't be picking on it too much if this wasn't a Wii thread.  Its like every Wii/360/PS3 thread on the net becomes a war, and the same with DS/PSP.

Even when we don't want to many of us become console warriors.  If I have I do apologize.  As can be seen I do try to see the good in all machines, and outside of maybe the Gizmondo, most game consoles tend to have something worth buying one for, even if its on the cheap.

Right now though the PS3 is a wait and see proposition IMHO.

Hey, it's all cool. I don't mean to knock the NGage. It just seemed like you didn't have that much ground to criticize the PS3 (but I see you're not really doing that. You've cleared that up).

I will give a couple straight facts about BC on the PS3.  Firstly, I have not had a problem with any PS1 game I put in it, however my PS1 library isn't massive.  I have basically tried Vagrant Story, Silent Hill and some FF PS1 ports. They might look better (I think VG does but have not done a side-by-side with a PS1 title yet), but none of them look worse... which leads to the Secondly, which is that more than half of my PS2 games work perfectly fine in the PS3.  They all boot up, but some "look funny".

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=8990.0

Of course Microsoft will be looking at putting a new console out in 2 years, and so will Nintendo. Sony is the only one I've seen who has tried to claim their box will have an adequate 10-year life cycle, and the only reason they did that was to try to justify the $600 price tag. It won't no matter how powerful the Cell actually ends up being. Five-year life cycles are much more sensible and anything beyond that is gravy. That's why the price tag is so ridiculous.

With the way displays and inputs on displays have been changing so quickly in the last 5 years, do you honestly think the PS3's hardware is going to hold up in an unchangeable form for 10-years? Or more than 2 or 3? Someone will come up with an even higher-def interface, and the PS3 won't support it. Or hardware trends will change and people won't be buying the same type of hi-def tv's. Or Blu-Ray will shit the bed and the PS3 will be left with a movie drive that doesn't play new movies. There are too many variables with digital technology to expect that.

Meanwhile, the 360 will give way to the 720 or whatever retarded name Microsoft comes up with, and it'll be the movie playing/Tivoing/Internet lifesytling/game playing box Micorosoft has wanted to sell you for the last 10 years. Nintendo will have a hi-def console in the pipeline that really kicks up the motion-sensing capabilities. By 2010, the PS3 will be creaking just like the PS2 is now.

2010? That's 3 years.

The PS2 is still the most popular console after 6 years (and will probably remain so for another 1 or 2), and the PS3 was made with the future in mind in a much more extensive way. I expect a repeat.

Who cares if Microsoft releases a convergence device years from now. Sony has already done it now (coupled with future software updates, it'll be even more apparent) -- and by the time this new MS box comes out, the PS3 will be a hell of a lot cheaper -- and still impressive enough for consumers. Much like the Wii or PS2 are now.


720p/1080i will be more popular and more affordable for average Joes like yourself in 5 years, so the TV's you'll be using won't even exceed the capabilities that a PS3 has now (it already does true HD/1080p, something that most consumers still won't have in 5 years).

10 years is unfair though. Sony hasn't even made the claim that it would hold up that long.

Actually I think Sony DID make that whole 10 years statement.

But as to increasing technology?

That's what got the PS3 in trouble.  A movie format that is brand new and untested and on TVs that really won't be approaching the standard until 2010 or so, halfway through its actual lifecycle.

Not everyone wants to drop 500 or more dollars on an HDTV yet.  Many folks have expensive big screen tvs that are SD, and many more simply cannot afford the purchase, especially in conjunction with an expensive game system.  Its why Nintendo was relatively smart and decided to not hedge a bet on current formats and merely went DVD with Progressive Scan.  It made it a few 100 bucks cheaper and when they do their next system people will be ready for it and there will be a standard.

Multiple competing formats are bad.  Confused Joe Average consumer will wait till one wins and is cheaper.

Sure the techies were happy a year or 2 ago paying 1500+ for a 32" 720p but most people aren't.  They also aren't willing (or even WANTING) to switch up to a new optical disk format. 
DVDs are the first real home video format people actually own libraries for.  Being told to rebuy it all at a higher price doesn't sit pretty with them. 
I was a modestly early DVD adopter (when players were 300 bucks or so) and I still haven't replaced many of my VHS tapes with DVDs.   Its hard to justify rebuying the same content.
(Admitted most of my VHS collection is anime, which was never the easiest stuff to come across, especially in department stores.  Right now I have about 200 VHS tapes and maybe 50 of them I would seriously want to replace.  Tenchi TV series and movies, the Gundam 0079 movie trilogy.. some mecha stuff..)

I'm honestly thinking about putting off an HDTV for a few more years.  I can get a modestly priced 720p now, but in 3 years what if everything is 1080p?  I'm fucked!
And considering my living room tv has been the same TV since 94 or so, I would be stuck with a less than optimal set for a good long time.

Plus with everyone supporting different formats it could be a triple burn if one fails.  (And given historical trends, Sony's exclusive formats tend to be the ones to crash and burn.  Hell, look how many electronics products use Memory Sticks compared to SD cards.)

Sony is doing now what Nintendo did.  They think they own the industry so everyone should shut up and get in line, but like Nintendo its not working, and its sowing the seeds of third place.

I really think the PS3 has the potential to be the Gamecube of this generation, if not worse.  (No Nintendo to release compelling software.  Plus the price puts it well out of the 2nd system category.)

It's been less than two months. Sony isn't sowing the seeds of third place.

Christ, that sort of talk needs to stop. It's just retarded.

Yes.


No you're not. You wouldn't see much of a difference between 1080p and 720p unless it's a big (big) screen.

Yes, they have. And it just like the PS2 now, it won't hold up. Sure, the PS2 is still alive and kicking 6 years later. But is it anyone's first choice? It sold well this Christmas because it was there and had games, but it's in its first stages of death. The X-Box and GameCube are stronger boxes graphically, and the X-Box beat it on features (built-in hard drive and network capability). The next Microsoft and Nintendo boxes will beat out the PS3 on hardware and by 2010, it'll start to creak. By 2012, no one will want one. The video game industry is about the NEW shiney. Old shiney don't do it.

[EDIT] Reserved until I can think of something better to say than "Lol".

Which probably won't happen.

Lol.

Finally blogged about the Madden for Wii for those still interested. I need a sugar daddy to pay my bills so I can write more often.  :-D

My rental place finally got Super Swing Golf and Need for Speed Carbon in. I plan to do Carbon next, since I'm really chomping at the bit to see how the Wii handles driving games.

I suspect that ExciteTruck would be a better indicator of driving games, coming from Nintendo and all.

Perhaps, but I like the Need for Speed series. I've heard ExciteTruck isn't really exciting per se. :) It's further down in my queue.

So someone robbed my friend's house the other day and stole his Wii. So now not only do I not have one, I can't go over to his place and play his any more.

ANGRY FACE!

Sucky.

Hm, I wonder if a stolen Wii can be tracked. After all it must have some sort of hardware ID for them to license VC games against. Which would I assume also be integrated in the friend codes the box generates?

Sony hasn't lost of course, the contest has barely started and the depth of the game library will determine the winner. That said the Wii with novelty, dramatically lower development costs and quite possibly a large installed base has taken a lot of the wind out of the PS3's sales.

For myself I consider the wii the only real console. The PS3 and the X-Box are just lobotomized PC's, something I'm not interested in when I already own a perfectly good desktop.

Good luck playing God of War on a PC or Wii.

Not to mention Every Capcom Game.

Speaking of which they *finally* released DMC 3 for the PC but RE 4 is still not out yet.

I saw DMC3 a few months ago. But yea, the time it's taking RE4 really rubs my balls the wrong way.

My local Wal Mart was PACKED with 60 gig PS3s today.

Those things just aren't selling.

I bought a Transformer instead, though they have Lego Mindstorms 2 at 50 dollars off.  If Apple doesn't update the iMacs this week I may go back and get it!  :-)

I wonder what is causing the PS3 not to be selling out? Considering how few the numbers are I'd figure there are enough fanboys we should never, ever see a PS3 in stock.

Price.  My guess is that the ultra hardcore guys did wait in line on release day to drop their $600, and now own all three systems.  This amounts to very few people overall.  The serious gamer already had a 360, and was faced with the steep price of a PS3 and the desire to get a Wii, plus Christmas presents for people.  So they got the Wii for themselves, and decided to wait on a PS3 purchase.  No point in getting a PS3 right off because it costs so much for so little difference (as of yet) to the 360.  The more average gamer looked at the price of the 360, the price of the PS3, and the price of the Wii and went WTF?! and picked one of the other two up instead.  The compeditive edge that the PS2 held in its generation was a massive game library.  Strictly in terms of library, the 360 holds that bonus at the moment, and is likely to retain it throughout this generation. 

It's also past Christmas so the best excuse for making a big bucks purchase for yourself has passed unless you were fortunate enough to be showered with gaming/electronics gift cards all from the same place over the holidays.

If you get a Wii, you can play Zelda on it.  If you get a PS3 you can play something that isn't Zelda.

I mostly play Bully and Metal Saga on my PS3.

So you paid 600$ for a flawed PS2 emulator?

The PS3 right now offers nothing but great graphics on mediocre games. Why would anyone want one?

I'm not even sure I can name a single PS3 game.

360 has some good games out and the Wii has good games and a whole new experience. PS3 has nothing at this point. Why would there be any demand for a fancy paperweight?

Keep the hyperbole to politics. I don't like the launch list that much either, but Resistance is a good game. Gamepad aside, it's on par or better than most of the good FPS's out right now. It'd probably be a modest hit if it was a PC game (i.e. Prey, Fear, Call of Duty....but looks better than any of them). Multiplayer is good too.

The 360 has it smoked, of course (at least until Epic releases UT2K7), but I'd take it over the Wii's CoD3 (which the PS3 has too), Red Steel, or that bastardized version of FarCry.

Hell, I've had more fun with demos of MotorStorm and GTA Concept than any of this stupid Vanguard/WoW/LotRO/SWG shit most people here yap about all fucking day, week in week out, year in year out, etc, etc, etc... So don't say this shit about paperweights. There are far worse things to be playing -- and the majority of F13 is playing them.

The ports I have (NBA 2K7 and Project 8 ) are good fun...But they're ports. I'm sure that disqualifies them from discussion to someone here..Somehow.

The Wii doesn't offer an entire new experience either. I'm still just playing a game. You know what? When Lair comes out? I'll turn off the tilt controls on the PS3 there also. The Wii does not come close to the controller, keyboard, and mouse. I'm sorry. And this is coming from the guy who spent $50 on Super Swing golf, bought that Wii Sports accessory pack, and hunted down component cables during the first few weeks just to get the best possible experience. And you know what? Didn't make a fucking difference. Yea, sure, it's objective. But I buy more and play through more games than just about anyone here. And it was not more fun or less fun. It was still just Golf. And right now, the Wii controller might as well be a shoehorn. Same with the motion stuff in the PS3 controller. It's all a crock of bullshit to sell more units. We'll see if those two controllers can turn around like the DS is, but not likely. No one wants to compete with Nintendo's first party titles and no one wants to spend $600 on a console.

Why are you looking for a replacement for the keyboard and mouse?

I don't think it is possible to play Wii sports and claim it is an old experience. Standing up in your living room and swinging your controller around like a bat is old?

Obviously a whole bunch of people disagree with you.

The motion stuff on the PS3 is a retarded afterthought that will never amount to anything. You can't hold a gamepad in two hands and wave it around very much.

Resistance might be ok but can't people play GOW on 360 instead? Right now the PS3 is a purchase mostly for people who already own the other two systems, because it doesn't do anything the other systems don't do better while costing the most.

Highest price, lowest quality. Gee why isn't that selling well?

The Wiimote is a decent attempt at making me feel like I'm in an arcade, but it's not a replacement. I want Light Gun games. You want me to pretend it's Tennis? I realize it's asking a lot, but give me something that actually replaces a tennis racket. Basically everything that it's trying to emulate is entirely too half-assed. Do it right or don't do it at all. Especially if it gets in the way of Possible Fun (like Zelda).

The argument that the Wii is halfassed is between you and Schild (I don't really believe that....At least as far as Wii sports is concerned), but I don't understand why you'd knock the PS3's sensing capabilities when it's using the same interface that enables teh Wiimote to do what it does. It's not UFO Robot Jesus technology. Hell, you can even program the Wiimote to function on a PS3 (there was some conference awhile back where a keynote speaker was doing just that for his presentation).

Outside of Nintendo exclusives, Wiimote type games would be simple to port as well. They're using dated PPC and ATI chips, and Bluetooth -- all of which would pose no problem on a PS3.

Whether they will is another story. Not one that matters much to me anyways. I'll be getting a Wii too.


Gaming wise, you're right. Though Resistance has a multiplayer and replay advantage imho. Not much of a gameplay advantage outside of a longer campaign mode. Possibly a better story (yeah not saying much), and it just seems harder (that could be subjective).

General entertainment wise, no. Even if you got the hddvd player or wireless addon for the 360, no. It's neither cheaper or better. Nor is it more convenient. You're getting more for your money than you would the XBox.

You can downplay that if you wish, of course.

General entertainment-wise I'm guessing that XBox Live has a huge advantage over the PS3 store right now in terms of movies and TV shows available for download which probably shouldn't be downplayed either.  Apparently HD movie downloads are pretty popular on the 360 (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/753/753073p1.html).

I wouldn't downplay that. Sony will probably try it too.

I don't think either them or Sony has provided users a good basis to start with though (20 gigs or none. For "HD". 20 gigs or 60 as far as Sony goes).

I'd downplay their recent announcement of the IPTV Xbox though (i.e. an XBox with streaming HD cable like service). Now they're coming out and saying that disc media doesn't matter (yeah, maybe 15 or 20 years from now).

The lack of storage space kind of sucks for the TV shows, but from what I've seen looking around, most of the movies on Live are "rentals".  You're not really going to keep them on your HD long enough for storage to be much of an issue.  It's not something I've really tried out yet though as my work (and by extension a large amount of my social life) involves watching a lot of movies at the theater so I'm not inclined at the moment to watch too many movies at home.

Damn...Too bad there isn't video acceleration in PS3 Linux (I think?). Then I could claim the PS3 has full BitTorrent + Movie ownership capability ;).

And once again I remember that this is supposed to be the Wii thread.  Someone just make a PS3 vs. Wii. vs. 360 thread and be done with it (I'd do it but I don't want to take the blame when it becomes a complete disaster).

Yep...

Though to be honest, I don't really want a "Vs" thread per se. I'd just like to discuss what lies ahead for all of them. If anything.

It's more interesting than Vanguard at least.

It would turn into a vs. thread regardless, especially with schild's drive-by Wii hate.  Such is life.

So are you saying that you want purpose-shaped controllers ala Guitar Hero?  Like a tennis racket-shaped controller, baseball bat shaped, etc.?  I do agree that the light gun needs to come back.  I kind of miss Duck Hunt.

I'm getting flashbacks of Gyromite and Track and Field.  :-P

I'm pretty sure that Sega is better at all of this though. Just drop by your local Dave and Busters and see. Not to mention it'd be better having a third party handle this stuff anyways.

Yes, I want purpose shaped controllers. Or VERY HIGH quality parts to mimic the experience and attach to the current controller. Also, one of my biggest gripes with the system was tethering everything to the remote. That shit drives me nuts.

My problem with the six-axis stuff is just the way the controller is shaped, you can't really wave it around and twist it very much.

You can use the wiimote with one hand, it feel very natural, you can pitch it and rotate it fairly easily. A game pad is designed for two hands. Gripping something with two hands gives you much less freedom (especially twisting) and using it with one hand is just weird.

Now of course you can say the reverse of the Wiimote, it feels odd with two hands as a standard gamepad.

See, that seems cool, and I wouldn't mind specialized controllers if they came with the game and didn't bump the price up too high.  But isn't the downside having to store a hojillion specialized controllers?

I wouldn't notice 40 controller peripherals. Not anymore.

I don't disagree with you. Also, it's main flaw is no real pointing capability. It's just motion.

At best, the Sixaxis a nice way to compliment standard gamepad controls (as it does in some games already). Not a good way to control an entire game..It really shouldn't be viewed that way.

As for a controller that mimics the Wiimote, I suppose that Sony could issue out a bluetooth motion device that also functions as a DVD/BD remote. Since people want a DVD remote anyways. That seems more clever than marketing something specfically as a game peripheral.

I've seen a picture of the "gun" for the wii. It was hard to judge size, but it definitely embedded the wiimote within a gun shaped shell. Ideally a better trigger and rumble would make a nice accessory. Mind you, the wii is a platform not really that well suited to serious shooters.... although I must say the footage of the next metroid prime game looked quite decent.

Wii vs PS3 is ultimately fairly futile, they really aren't in direct competition. The X-box, PS3 and PC definitely are though.

Xbox vs PC isnt a fight the PC can win. So sorry. Not enough worthwhile PC only developers.

Though I'm not the biggest defender of PC's, MS still hasn't addressed one of the biggest draws of PC gaming: Mods. Whether that be creating or using. The Xbox might have coaxed PC developers, but it hasn't exactly transfered the full PC experience yet.

There's an interview where Tim Sweeney praises Sony's online model over Microsoft's because of this (that at least it isn't such a closed deal as XBL...PC's mods can and will able to trickle down to the PS3 without any roadblocks or Sony feeling they need to get in the way...Hell, Epic hasn't even announced a 360 version of UT yet, let alone mod ability).

[edit]

What's that phrase Microsoft uses?

"Premium Content" (cha ching!)

Yeah...Not cool.

Yes, I've come to terms that the licensing situation basically damns the most powerful and flexible of the platforms to obscurity.

.... mind you, it would probably be a far more viable platform if microsoft wasn't also one of the dominant console owners. Not really much point in them competing with themselves.

Mods on the 360 would be nice. In fact, it's the only thing that made me consider Oblivion on the PC over the XBOX since most of my fun with Morrowind came with user-created mods. In the end playing it on my big screen hi-def TV won out. And Bethesda has released enough content themselves I'm mostly good. Also, unlike Morrowind I enjoy the box version of Oblivion just fine.

On another note, I bought Zelda for Gamecube yesterday and all my urges to get a Wii died. I can now safely wait several months if I need to. Amazing how that one game was the big thing I wanted a Wii for.

So, does anyone know any good games coming in say, the next 6 months that will make the Wii attractive to purchase? The only two launch games that looked interesting were Zelda and the Emergency room game. Where's Mario and Metroid?

Edit: I've also been noticing that while the 360 consoles are in stock it's a bitch to find alot of the better games. Rainbow Six Vegas seems to be a myth at this point as far as I can tell. Hell, I can't even find that cheesy new Star Trek game. (which I'm considering getting just so I can play a game with Captain Kirk in it. I mean come on!)

Raving Rabbids is fantastic.  Terribly addictive, and a really good party game.  Actually, it's mostly a party game as the single player is very short (beatable in 10 hours or so), although you can go to the multiplayer and play as just one player.  That lets you rack up points to unlock stuff, although it's nothing to get wound up for.  Some people are loving the Madden game (I don't have it - don't play football games) and Monkey Ball (rented, didn't care for the control scheme, but others rate it highly). 

There are a handful of mediocre titles out now:  Red Steel, Far Cry, GT Pro.  For some reason the aiming control for the shooer part of Rabbids feels more natural and easier to use than either Red Steel or Far Cry (and I don't mean because it's on rails), but from what I've heard CoD3 does it well too.  I have that and the Clancey game, but haven't gotten to them yet.

Big titles comming in '07 are Mario, Paper Mario, Metroid, and Final Fantasy.  Harry Potter could be neat, as I think people are going to go nuts over using the Wiimote as a wand.  Sadness looks very interesting, and DragonQuest is comming.  Fire Emblem, WarioWare (party game), and Smash Bros, depending on what you like.  Not sure how many of those are Q1-2 of '07, but all are TBA in '07.

Yeah, pretty much.

I can see the fun in having lots of specialty controllers but it would not be very practical, so we get the Generic Action Device rather than a baseball bat or golf club or shotgun.  I guess I will find out if I'm OK with that compromise once I can get a Wii.

The thing that I expect will irritate the shit out of me with the Wii is basically the same thing as what irritates the shit out of me about the DS, and this is also one of schild's gripes on Zelda: the shoehorning of Wiimoteness into every game.  On the DS, there are many games that just don't need the stylus but force it in there because of some Nintendo mandate (I assume).  Dawn of Sorrow, for example, is disqualified from challenging Symphony of the Night simply because it forces me to use the stylus in a boss fight.  No, it's not much and only a little inconvenient but on principle I disagree with shoehorning in some stylus just because it's fucking there.

Children of Mana doesn't require the stylus (maybe I'm not far enough into it, but so far so good), but I expect this sort of shit on the Wii for approximately as long as it was between the release of the DS and Children of Mana.  Games that make good use of the stylus are fine (menu-driven games or Brain Age, I guess), and even traditional games that make judicious use of it are fine (Contact does OK despite some heavy use), just don't make me play a 2D Castlevania with a stylus and expect me to ask for seconds.

Heh. Good one. Why is this posted in a Wii Q&A thread?
Again, not the thread for this...but why wouldn't you be able to play the pc version of Oblivion on your big screen hdtv? I did just fine.

I disagree with what you said. The Wii is better for shooters than any of the other consoles out there, because the Wiimote is a better device for actually aiming a gun. Just because some people get pissy about COD and Red Steel not having HD graphics does not mean they aren't good games, because they are very good games.

I really can't understand the Red Steel love.  I don't dislike moderate graphics - I helped run a MUD for years and still dust off MoO every so often.  What it has is new gameplay because of the Wiimote, but other than that the game is extremely shallow.  I think if you stacked the gameplay alone against Gears of War for example, you're going to see it come up short.  Red Steel, by itself, is mediocre.

The catch: the Wiimote makes some games much more fun.  It is PEFECT for shooter games.  Like, spot on.  The only thing Nintendo could do to make it better is to release the gun clip-on, and have games allow you to recenter your targeting cursor.  Reason for the latter is because as of right now, the Wii uses the IR bar as it's centerline without knowledge of the screen size, so you can't actually aim at a target.  That's fine when you hold just the Wiimote because you don't have anything to aim with, so it's more like shooting a pistol from the hip.  Give me the gun clip and calibration, and you can remove the targetting pointer.  Voila, Duck Hunt.  Or a very realistic Resident Evil.

Ooh, cool thought.  Because RE (and a few other shooters, like Clancy games) don't really allow for circle strafing, you could load all the camera and motion controls on the nunchuck.  Thumbstick moves you, c+thumbstick pans camera, flick left/right rotates camera by 90, flick up reloads, flick down activates items.  Leroi (or whoever) holds the gun up whenever you do - no need to press/hold A.  No targetting cursor - you aim on your own.  You can't move+turn or run+gun easily, but again, you don't really do that in this game and this alleviates the need to keep the gun held up and pointed at the screen all the time.  That's still leaving the Wiimote buttons and motion sensing mostly free (flick left/right for knife attacks, +/- for menu selections, etc).  For that matter, if you have Z targetting (Metroid, etc) you can still get your run+gun.

Red Steel is fun so far. The controls are terrible though after having played CoD3. I hear Farcry also has really nice controls but the game itself got terrible reviews so I haven't checked it out. If future shooters are more like CoD3 controls and less like Red Steel controls I think it will be a fantastic shooter platform.

Farcry is ok.  I didn't play Instincts, but the story apparently picks up from there, so it's a bit confusing to me as there's no introduction.  Not that it matters, as the story is very unsophisticated anyway.  The AI is very bad, and sniper fights can be irritating (I'm stuck on one at the moment).  The missions are interesting, and the level layouts are designed good, especially considering the heavy use of outdoor settings.  The predator settings add a little extra something, but to be honest I don't use it at all except for healing.  I would say the control schemes are comperable, although the Farcry aiming doesn't seem to be as precise (ironically, the shooting game in Rabbids feels the most natural so far). 

I'm glad to hear that COD3 has a better scheme than Red Steel - my only complaint with it is that the camera went berserk if you scrolled off the edge.  Farcry handles that better (it realizes you're not doing something right, and quits trying).  I think Red Steel has better controls except for that. 

I had more fun and was more involved playing Red Steel than I've been on many games in a long time. Sword fights had me on my feet, swinging like a tool. It was just that good to me. I say that as someone who has enough experience to recognize a game's flaws, and even with the flaws, I still loved it. I hope they make a sequel that's longer, a bit more freeform and with more swordfighting. As much as I liked Call of Duty 3, I liked Red Steel even better despite the fact that RS was a more flawed game.

I'm sure Gears of War is a great game, but Red Steel holds a special place in my heart. To me, that game showed what the Wii could do with games I like just as much as Wii Sports showing what sports games could be like on the system.

Ok, I get what you mean now.  Fair enough.

It is clear that Haemish's heart grew three sizes that day... the day he bought a Wii down in Wii-ville.  Where I am, someone else took even the last can of Wii-hash.

Rock on, H.

I saw this in the store the other day. You may want to think about purchasing these controllers. I believe the company that makes them is called Core Gamer.

Wii Sports Pack (http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=Wii+Sports+Pack&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&checkout=1&sa=X&oi=froogle&ct=checkout-restrict)

Already own that. That's what I was talking about earlier. The Wii Sports pack of attachments.

The Wii was about the most encouraging thing I've seen in the video game industry since The Movies. It has deadened the empty socket where my MMOG love still weeps.

I agree the wiimote is, potentially, a fantastic interface to a shooter. Certainly better than trying to aim with those awful thumbsticks on some of the other consoles. However shooters tend to emphasize "teh shiny" graphics, long view distances and detailed environments... I'm not sure wii actually has the grunt to be the console of choice for heavy shooters.

That doesn't mean there won't be wii shooters though, those who have bought a wii will still want games of that type.

Not to take anything from the Wii or Movies (I like them both), but c'mon....Pop Cap games could accomplish that feat too.

Wait. That needs more than one post.

It's like people who have been buying the Wii have been living in a hole or something. I just got done responding to a guy on a blog who played too many mmo's, and thought the Wii was some revolutionary harkening back to the "good ole days" of gaming.

No, damnit. It was you. Not the games.

Same goes for all of these baby boomers, newspaper journalists, soccer moms, and 30 somethings who think gaming has all of the sudden made a comeback or something.

They've always been here, on any given platform, waiting for your time.

[EDIT] Another thing: "The 360 and PS3 are just about graphics. The Wii is about fun!!"

Fucking retarded.

[EDIT] Not really directed at you Haem, but it kind of reminds me of what I'm hearing elsewhere. I had to bring it up...

Stray, no offense but I think you are just plain wrong here.

A couple of my friends GFs won't touch any games but they play Wii sports. For one thing it is pretty free of typical gaming conventions - the controls are easy to learn (but hard to master), it isn't about elaborate tech, insane aiming ability, or anything like that.

Games have built up a fairly large vocabularly and continuity. If you've never played an FPS before and FPS is probably totally overwhelming. Same with a 3D fighting game. I know how to play Tekken fairly well but that's because I started at #2. Try explaining sidesteps, crushes, launches, the ground game, counter-hits, throw escapes, chickens, etc to a new player.

The control in Wii sports is easy to grasp and doesn't require any prior knowledge. If you have some vague understanding of how tennis works you can play tennis immediately.

It is also far more active than sitting on your ass. There are no loading screens, no CGI things, no violence or women in chain-mail bikinis. It doesn't take an hour to get started. Etc.

I think the 360 is largely about graphics, and MS and its devs think so as well - they've said as much. I've read interviews with the EA guys where they are asked what innovation they are bringing to the table and their answer is seriously "higher resolution."

There have always been games like Tetris, Katamari, etc, that are simple and fun - except that I don't really like those sorts of games. In the past it was I'll play my hardcore Tekken and you play your casual Poyu Poyu or whatever...now I can play Wii sports alongside someone who would typically play puzzle games and we can both have fun.

Standing up, swinging your arms around and acting like a goofball is just a good time. It is a different experience.

Note that I am talking about Wii Sports here specifically - Zelda isn't really a different experience. It's Zelda, which is fine but your grandma probably isn't going to play it.

Wii Sports has a curiosity factor, and also a "hey, I think I could do that!" factor that your Zelda or GOW doesn't have.

You just used EA as an example to make people in the industry look like non-innovative turds.

That's like bringing up nazis in a politics thread.

I don't deny that graphics are a big part of Sony and MS (of course they are), but that doesn't mean they aren't fun. One can still be both, contrary to what some LA Times schmuck (or some Youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1hwb5yGZZQ) heh) tells everyone.

I don't deny that the XBox in particular seems to overly target the teenage American male crowd either (moreso than Sony). They've tapped that ass like there's no tomorrow....But yet, it's still a fun gaming machine when it comes down to it. All of these systems, and the ones before them....And the ones before them....Have all been fun. The Wii hasn't "brought back gaming". It's great and all, but fuck that noise.

[EDIT] As for girlfiends, I spent Sunday cooking and hanging out with some friends and some girls....Guess what we played...

EA Games lol (Need for Speed and Fight Night). The non gamer girls were having a good enough time (though I admit, they probably would like Wii Sports more).

I don't think Margalis was saying that the Wii brought back gaming so much as it opened it back up to the more casual audience once again by simplifying things a little.  In a way, Wii Sports in particular is like a step back in the direction of Pong.  It's fun and simple, and packing it in with the Wii means that out of the box you've got something that appeals to a wide audience.  The industry has been so focused on building on what's been done previously that there aren't a lot of "entry level" games out there for people who haven't spent most of their lives playing video games (I'm sure the Gameboy and the DS have had quite a few but not everyone likes portables).

Yes, you said it better than I did Velorath.

My key point is that Wii Sports is fun for casual and hardcore gamers at the same time, which I see as very rare. There are casual games. Someone mentioned PopCap games for example. But I don't play PopCap games at all, or The Sims, or whatever else casual players play.

There are very few games that cast a very broad net. PacMan was one. Street Fighter was another, at least at first. (I saw kids, girls and truckers playing SF2 until people started getting good at it and scared them off) I see Wii Sports as one of those rare games that isn't a "casual game" or a hardcore game, it's just a game people like to play, and a variety of people can have fun playing it together.

---

I really look forward to Wii sports games with some more depth. Now I realize that as depth increases casual players will drop off somewhat. It would probably be a good idea to have simpler and more advanced control options, for example in baseball let hardcore players make the position of the bat really matter but have an option for the batting to be solely timing-based.

Stray, Margalis is right.  At least within my family/circle of friends (anecdotal, I know), it's not like gaming is a mystery to anyone.  Least of all my wife of all people, who has blessedly put up with my strange hours and addiction for years now.  And it's not for lack of trying that she doesn't play; when we were first married she gave most everything I showed her at least one go.  But she was uninterested.  Games that I could sink hours into if I let myself she couldn't tolerate for more than a few minutes.  I can appreciate that; I don't care to do the Martha Stewart craft stuff she likes.

But she loves the Nintendo.  As in, she won't stop talking about it if she gets started.  She puts Haemish's fanboism to shame, to the point that she comes to me telling me about this or that feature she uncovered, and I think somewhere in there I've lost some geek cred as a result.  It isn't a "comeback", it's that there is finally a product that clicks with her wants as a consumer. 

Nor is it just because Wii Sports is "simple" that she likes it.  Her favorite game is Trauma Center, which if you've seen it, requires (at least as you progress) quick thinking and steady aim.  I don't know that it's as hard as other games, but it's not simple.  When she looks at the 360, PS3 and Wii it really IS a difference of the 360/PS3 being "all about graphics" and the Wii being "all about fun".  She doesn't find anything that the other two are offering as being fun.

Now, I would.  If anyone is buying, I'm sure as hell not going to turn my nose up at either system, and I would like to get a 360 at some point (or a PS3 if price and games change for the better).  The graphics ARE nice and I'd love to see Gears of War, Bioshock, or Fall of Man.  But don't even try to explain why these games might be fun for you or me to someone like my wife.  She's uninterested.  And for my part, there are plenty of titles on or comming to the Wii that are fun, that I want to play, and that will take enough of my time that I don't really need another system.

Do you really want your wives into gaming? "Honey, my turn to play. I know you're about to kill the foozle, but we agreeeed!" I like that my girlfriend picks up a book or watches while I game. One gaming habit in the house is expensive enough.

I do yes, because when she's in the mood to play a game at the same time I am, it means we play a 2p game.

Yeah, I've not played any PopCap games. And I've been playing fun stuff on my X-Box for years.

But it's been the SAME stuff. New baseball game. New soccer game. Jade Empire (refried kungfu NWN/KotOR). And its' been with the same controller I've been playing with since the PS1 essentially. It isn't that good games can't be made with that interface, it's that I want NEW interfaces, and the 360 and PS3 don't do that. They put new shiney on the same interface. That's fine and all, but don't piss on my head and tell me it's next generation rain. It's not, it's previous generation with more shiney.

The Wii and Wiimote is NOT previous generation where it counts, in the controls. And while the launch lineup is previous generation mostly, it's got some really cool innovative takes on those previous generation ideas. Red Steel's swordfighting. Madden's tossing the ball. The Zelda swing. Those are innovations, whether Cheeto-dust encrusted "hardcore" gamers think they are gimmicky or not. A year from now, there'll be some really ingenuous uses of those controllers that wouldn't be possible in ten years with the current controllers.

Also, I finally got around to downloading some Virtual Console games last night, Street Fighter 2 (for me) and Super Mario Bros. for the wife. Painless, easy and pretty damn good emulations of the originals.

I don't have a choice, and I wouldn't want it any other way. If nothing else, we can always talk about gaming if a lull in the conversation arises. And she understands why I want to spend hours playing games even if she doesn't want to play that particular game.

It's a two-edged sword, indeed.  I have enough game machinery that there would be no way she could monopolize it, but then I'd have to play games with her all the time instead of someone else from time to time.  I probably would not mind us playing WoW together, but not EVE.  As it is, I play things so she can watch; right now this is Bully.  It's great sometimes, but sometimes I want to play other things.  Married life, keke.

Had my first Wii lockup last night. Playing a game of Madden in franchise mode, getting my ass kicked by the Cardinals of all teams (I'm the Packers) in the 4th quarter and the game does a hard lock. I can't even reset the system, though somehow I can eject the disc. Ended up having to pull the power plug and restart the system.

Glad to know EA's typical QA mastery is not limited to just one platform. They are equal opportunity fuckups.

It's the Wii.  Happened to me on a game of Farcry.

My friend's Wii crashed, it just froze and made a loud buzzing sound as did the controller as it vibrated constantly.

But then the same thing happened with his GameCube.

He had just gotten a new TV, seems like some sort of weird compatibility issue, like the TV recieved a messed-up signal and went haywire or something...strange. I don't really understand how that would make the Wiimote rumble but maybe it started rumbling then the crash occured so it didn't stop.

I just chalked it up to a hard lock like I see on the PC sometimes. Happened to my X-Box at times as well.

Wife and I met in college, both in technical programs.  We both game, but generally enjoy different stuff.  I play more RPGs and action titles, and she enjoys RTS and TBS games much more than I do, and is much better at them than I.  She understands the late nights where I've lost time gaming, tho, she does the same thing herself with Master of Magic or Ages of Empires, or lately, Dawn of War.

It's to the point where she can keep up in conversations about EQ with my RL gaming friends, 'cause she's heard us talk about it so much, even though she's never played it.  She has played a bit of CoH, but none of the other MMOs really interested her...  The monthly fees for a game really turn her off.

--
Alkiera

You're far too smart and aware of, you know, reality to make this kind of statement, so I can only assume you're making it as a Nintendo-Hate shit-stir. There's a light gun adaptor coming soon anyway.

http://www.mywii.com.au/NewsDetail.aspx?id=171




I agree with you, and I'm just going to flat-out not buy anything that fits that category. If I only end up with a half-dozen games for the console's entire life, then so be it. Doesn't worry me. I think I only have about 10-15ish gamecube games, and 5 of those must be various iterations of Mario Party.



Very true. My sister, who is 42 years old and is anything but a gamer and her boyfriend have been around a couple of times, and they both absolutely love the bowling game. Predictably, he also really liked the boxing game. These people are not gamers in any sense of the term, I don't think my sister has played a video game since those "7-games-in-one" consoles featuring 7 variations of pong that my brother has when I was a kid. but they've decided to buy a Wii after bowling here.



My wife is sitting at my side, busily catassing her way to her Mageblade in Alterac Valley. Since my brother died, her taking enough pity on me to play MMOGs with me has been one of the few things to keep me semi-sane. The fact that she's enjoying it and enjoys playing with me stops me from feeling guilty and is great that we have another thing to share. She's never been a gamer either, but she enjoys bowling with me, too.


I hated CoD3 and Red Steel. I found the controls to be awkward and just painful. I was really hoping for a lot more fun, but I found the controls to just be far too busy. That's me, of course, and I've never been a fan of console shooters since I got a PC and became a WASD gamer. Red Steel I found marginally less painful than CoD, and I wanted to experience the swordfights you were talking about in these threads, but it suffered from both atrocious and long JRPG-style story set up and also not Getting to the Fucking Monkey. (http://www.3pod.com.au/podhome/sounds/idio/songsfromselfsaucing%202006/02%20-%20King%20Kong.mp3)

Instead, I got pissed off with it's shitty controls long before the game offered me a sword. So fuck that game. Bring on the Star Wars game with lightsabers or the Bushido Blade which wont make me waste time with all the rest of the bullshit.

I may think they look like arse (compared to what I'm used to on the PC) and eye-hurtingly low res and muddy, but it was the control that caused me to hate them, not the graphics. The shooting bits in Rayman, on the other hand, being on rails, are quite fun, as I'm able to concentrate on shooting, light-gun style instead of fighting the shitty movement controls.

My brain hurts after trying to watch you carry on 5 different conversations in one post.

Thougt I'd do that instead of posting five times on the one page. One or two can be olay, but chain-posting five times would just be wanky.  :wink:

Somehow I think the fact that the "Wii Q&A thread" is over twice as long as the "PS3 Q&A thread" is telling in and of itself.

And yet a thread on SWG has everything else beat, so I'm not sure what this tells us.

Having had access to a Xbox, fully loaded with various games, over the course of a weekend I have developed a fully fledged hate for playing FPS with two thumbsticks. Given how muddy and blurry the graphics are trying to do precision aiming with the wildly insensitive little stub is maddening. And it's obvious the game makers know this, as most of the games hide the fact under extremely generous hit boxes or full on auto aiming (eg. various lock-on systems).

There's only two ways I'll FPS, mouse and wii-mote.

Given this quote I'm assuming you played on the Xbox v1 not the 360. I think you'd find the experience on a PS3 or 360 much improved (much better gfx, better controllers) although still inferior to mouse and keyboard.

I'm going to make a prediction: UT2K7 will allow mouse and keyboard control on the PS3

I kind of hope they don't, especially if PS3/360 players are allowed to play along with PC players.  :evil:

Subjectively speaking, I think it's harder to shoot things in Resistance than Halo1/2.  This could be due to the controller, but it's not impossible that Halo is just easier.

Still have not seen a Wii for sale.

Not sure about that. I've only played Halo co-op. It was easy.

I think Resistance can be pretty hard, but I haven't played co-op.

Word on the street says EBstops will have Wiis on Sunday, if anyone is still looking to pick one up. Maybe even a Lot of them. My store is getting something like 21. We usually get 3, and we only had 8 on release.

They're doing a big shipment for Wario Ware week? I suppose that's a good idea since they still can't stock controllers and it's only a one player/one controller game.

Just like Sony, stupid. stupid. stupid.

I don't know, and I don't care. I'm supposed to be going up to NH to work next week, so I don't have to work that stupid Sunday.

If I drive to the GameStop and they don't have any... /shakefist

If they do have a Wii but no component cable... /shakefist

Walmart carries component cables now. Some third party brand. Sure they're fine. Unfortunately, they don't stock any good games.

Oh, wait. Nobody does. HOHOHOHOHOHOHO. Seriously though, The PS3 and the Wii need to get hit with the cluebat.

Bump. You better leave now if you want a Wii.

Still that popular?  I have friends who swore before Wii/PS3 release that the Wii would retake the number 1 market slot.  I told them they were smoking crack at the time, but I am beginning to have doubts. 

No doubts here. The Wii has no chance, not in terms of software market share at least. The moment the PS3 hits full swing and Microsoft beefs up on the other genres of multiplayer, people will start to notice the Wii has no games. It's happened 2 times now, and given what I know about third party support (which is, unfortunately, a lot), it's going to happen again. More people will buy consoles this time around though and MANY more will buy more than one. So while the Wii may be in many more homes than the Cube, it won't have much more of an exclusive marketshare. It's a poor man's gaming system and it shows in everything they do. Just look at the friend code system, which the public at large doesn't even know about. Well, they won't until they get Pokemon and then I'll lololololololol at Joe Sixpack. As it stands, the Wii is doing well because it's cheap and shiny. Nintendo needs to get these stock issues straightened out before March hits also. Here's the release lists for each console through then.

Xbox 360:
Battlestations: Midway
Fusion Frenzy 2
Winning 11 2007 (yay!)
Crackdown w/ Halo Multiplayer (this is what is known as winning Q1)
NBA Street Homecourt
Bullet Witch (squeee!)
Samurai Warriors 2: Empires
Major League Baseball 2k7
GRAW 2
Dej Jam Icon
Medal of Honor: Airborne
Rayman Raving Rabbids
TMNT
Earth Defense Force 2017 (YES!)
Virtua Tennis 3
Armored Core 4

PS3:
Sonic The Hedgehog
College Hoops 2k7
Virtua Fighter 5
Formula One: Championship Edition
Elder Scrolls: Oblivion
Major League Baseball 2k7
Motorstorm
Medal of Honor: Airborne
NBA Street Homecourt
FEAR
Godfather: Don's Edition
Virtua Tennis 3
Armored Core 4
Rainbow 6: Vegas
Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Enchanted Arms

Wii:
Wii Play
SSX Blur
Tiger Woods 07
Bust A Move: Bash!
Medal of Honor: Airborne
Godfather: Blackhand Edition
Prince of Persia: Rival Swords (lol, originally a PSP title - and still is, crossplatform)
Blazing Angels
Cooking Mama

Let's see, the Wii has Cooking Mama. Comes out the last week of March. If you're a minigame whore, I've heard Wii Play is pretty mediocre. The PS3 has, uhmm, not much. Early PS2 redux. BUT, JUST LIKE THE EARLY PS2 IT HAS SOME AWESOME - Virtua Fighter 5. The 360 on the other hand looks like a mid-era PS2: Earth Defense Force, Bullet Wtich, Armored Core (cross platform stuff goes to 360 due to live and achievements, it's better that way), Samurai Warriors 2 Empires, Winning 11, Crackdown? Yea, that wins.

So take your pick. It's all about the games, and the 360 has them in spades. The Wii and PS3 are sucking shit through a camels ass - so sorry.

Achievements are OK Schild, but you're overrating AC4 on the 360. It'll be fine on the PS3. Outside of racing titles and things like SSX and THPS, what the hell is the big deal with achievments anyways? I'd play Armored Core online for mech fragging, and not much else (besides, both RR7 and Resistance do their own share of achievement tracking as well....So I suppose it's not out of the realm of possibility for an AC game either).

I think the PS3 Coded Arms comes out around the same time as these titles too. Who knows whether it'll be good, but it deserves a mention anyways.

Haze is coming out for both platforms too....But it's yet another FPS. Has the distinction of being made by the Timesplitters guys though.

Bullet Witch....

I'm sorry, but it literally makes me laugh out loud. Seriously. Dante would slice her throat.

I envy 360 users for having a solid 3rd person Japanese action title like Lost Planet, but Bullet Witch looks like a joke.

Winning Eleven.... Cool.

I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF YOUR SONY DICK SUCK GUSHING JUST BECAUSE YOU BOUGHT A PS3!  FAG!

SONYCOCK!

why am i still awake...

Yeah, I like the cock. It's true. Still don't understand how achievements can be such a deal breaker though. What exactly am I missing? Especially in the case of AC?

Sonic and the Secret Rings, Heatseeker, Blitz: The League, and  Mortal Kombat Armageddon also might be releasing around Feb/March.

Edit: relisted something schild already listed.

Just snagged one, actually my daughter got two tickets and bought one for me… …she got in line this morning about an hour and a half prior to store (that "Better Purchase" big box chain deal...) opening and yes, there were more in line than those who got tickets to buy… …I believe they had 50 come in… …headed back today to pick up more games and another nunchuck/controller, if there are any left over still…

Uhhh, Coded Arms was canceled. And because of achievements and the solidness of XBL, all my crossplatform games get purchased for the 360. The better controller there helps also.

I'd still like you to explain the appeal of achievements for me though. I saw this interview awhile back where some guy from Epic was saying they didn't dig the idea at first, but Microsoft required them to do it for GoW. He didn't think it'd be such a hit. He goes on to mention his surprise when XBox gamers started getting those fucked up Burger King games for the sole purpose of boosting their achievement rating. Not only that, but that they're buying both Japanese and American versions of the same games to double their scores.

Seriously...What the hell? It's almost like loot whoring, except without the loot. And who would have thought such a simple thing would enable even shitty games to be successful?

Just so you know, Nintendo stock is worth >$200/share more than Sony ($258 vs. $47). And Microsoft is only worth $31/share. Who is teh winnzor now, schildy?

Whoever thought up Achievements for Xbox360 should be given a huge fucking raise. They are awesome and addictive. There have been a few times where I would have put a game down, but I wanted to play just a little bit more to get that last achievement. You really cant understand until you start getting them, and by that time, its to late.

On the Wii. It wont fill in for a Xbox for PS, but it has sort of made its own niche. Last night I was at my friends house, where we would have usually eaten dinner and then played a board game. Instead of playing a board game, we played the Wii. My girlfriend and I, and my friend and his wife. Both the girls usually groan when games come up, but bring up Wii, and they are all for it. This is where the wii will excel. Not in place ofFPS or action games, but in family and multiplayer hotseat type games.

Stockholders. If only it was gamers.

The bottom line is that Ninentdo is by far the most profitable of the big three companies. Sauced and I are kicking ourselves for not buying in before the Wii's launch, (and for not picking up on Vivendi before Burning Crusade).

Edit: added parentheses.

That's basically how the GameCube was viewed too. Party toy/Electronic boardgame. At the time, that wasn't a good thing for Nintendo, but I suppose having the Wii in so many more homes this time around, it won't be a problem. They can milk that cow, and never have to worry about appealing to the PS/XBox crowd as much as before.

BINGO!

Mass market crossover appeal

Mrs. Naum, while a big board/card game fan (not much of a electronic gamer, lest Crazy Taxi or elf-bowling or other trivial puzzle/card distractions that fleetingly qualify as "games") was the big urger and reminderer of purchasing a Wii… …I would have waited 'til they were in full stock, discounts applied and games o plenty…

Now excuse while I go in search of Wii component cables that seem to have disappeared from all the local merchant store shelves…

Yep, that's how I'm seeing the Wii and my use for it as well. No traditional console games on it you say? Meh, I don't care, I have a PS/Box for those. It's going to be like my cube, which is mostly party games, and any exclusives that appeal to me. I don't intend to buy anything that doesn't feel native to the control scheme. I'll rent as many as I can to try them out (NFS: Carbon will be the next rental) but I'm really not expecting anything worthwhile from cross-platform titles unless they're developed primarily as Wii games and ported across to the others (like Rayman).

Wii Play is lackluster. If it's released in the US as a standalone piece of software, I would not recommend it at all. If it's released in the same way it has been here in Australia (as a pack-in for a Wiimote for an extra couple dollars) then I do recommend it as a cheap muck around. The neon air hockey, shooting game and the fishing game are all worthwhile in that context.

There is nothing like seeing that little popup at the bottom of your screen. "Achievement unlocked". It's a hell yeah moment. It's almost like the ding-grats cycle in an mmo. I've been known to go back and replay some annoying game just to get as many achievements as possible. It's fun to get them and one of the best ideas MS has had in the console wars.

I hate ding grats. I shit on ding grats. It'd be a cold day in hell before I mingle ding grats with my button bashing.

***

Sorry, not directed at you. Just venting.

[EDIT]

Like I said though, point keeping and bragging rights could appeal to me for certain games, but the point whoring in and of itself does not. Doing some elaborate combo in THPS, or Spider-Man, for example, would be worth bragging about. Finishing a track in so and so amount of time would be great as well. Having a "flat" Gamer Rating, with no real attention on the specific games, however, is lame to me. If someone can get general cred on XBL for playing through Burger King games, then I find it a bad idea. That doesn't tell me whether they're a good gamer or not.

[EDIT]

Wait, is there a way to look up a Gamer Rating, and then see what games and moves they got it from? Can you sift out mere point whores from people who are doing the truly impressive stuff? I mean, if someone has a high Gamer Rating, then I want to see that he has high records of headshots and good kill/death ratio in shooters; fast timer speeds in racers; that he can do 900 Kickflip-Mctwists in Tony Hawk...Etc, etc..

Yep. You can see their individual achievements listed by game if you wish. Some of the achievements are definitely of the "this tells me something about them" type. For instance I have the pistoleer achievement in Rainbow Six for killing 150 terrorists with only a pistol. There are achievements for number of wins in an online match, headshots, etc. There are some pretty cheesy achievements too. "Finished level 1 on any difficulty level" is a typical one for the single player mode of most FPS.

Cool enough then.

So far, PSN does nothing like that. Probably never will. It's just there for connectivity. The games themselves implement their own achievements (Resistance MP has all the standard FPS staples, like headshots etc.. You also gain military rank like you do in Battlefield. Ridge Racer and Gran Turismo track your lap scores and the like. Sports games do their own things).

Basically, all the same things as XBL, but without the convenient, centralized hub (about the only thing that's centralized is chat and messaging). If you want to know how good someone is in Resistance, then you have to have the game yourself.

(http://card.mygamercard.net/f13schild.png)

Sup bitches. I got some Jennifer Morrison action going on.

Good god you've got alot of points compared to me Schild. I'm in the 6k area. Of course, I don't tend to actively try to get achievements in my games.

People are still getting to stores five hours early so they can play fake bowling.  The guy I heard about that did that yesterday (5am for a 10am opening) was second in line.  I don't care about the rest of the GameCubey lineup of the Wii since it is apparently the Second Coming of Pong.  Also, I'm sad because I just have to have one.

Looks like Gamestop is doing a similar deal for the Wii and DS as they did the PS3. Link (http://www.gamestop.com/gs/weeklyad/current/012107/GS_01-21_Page2.asp?cookie%5Ftest=1&)

Trade in a GBA for $50 credit towards a DS, or trade in a GC for $50 credit towards a Wii.

Pong kicked ass back in the day, because there was nothing at all like it. Being the Second Coming of Pong would be a good thing to anyone but the most jaded hardcore gamer asshole.

Killjoy and I found an old battery-operated Pong machine some years ago.  It was the one that had the paddles on the main unit, I think.  We were very sad to find that the batteries had corroded in the unit.

Just wanted to point out that all of Nintendo's online play systems are deliberately awkward because the systems are geared towards kids and they wanted to trhow some protective barriers up.  Which is why you never see even basic chat systems in public matchmaking games (ie Mario Kart DS).

Considering I generally avoid online play unless I can join in SA groups or play with friends its not all that bad really.

After enough trash talking and the usual selection of racist, homophobic, and antisemitic comments I just gave up.

Whenever I feel bad about my currently on hiatus WoW zombie chick not being able to babble about eating every Alliance brain she can find, I remind myself of the comments one is likely to hear from opponents in any game and then I do not feel bad any more.

(This isn't to say that XBL isn't outstanding for what and how it does its thing.  Merely that like all online gaming bits its full of twits.)

I would much rather play with my friends than online. Even in an online game I would rather do something like me and my buddies in CS vs. some other people. Online with random people just doesn't appeal to me at all.

SOMEBODY GET ME A WII!

Please, for the love of god. If someone can get me a Wii I'll pay shipping and a nice $25 finders fee...this is driving me insane. I've stood in line at 5AM twice now and still not gotten one.

"If all of your friends jumped off a cliff, would you do it too?"
"If there was a Wii at the bottom, yeah."

Wizard needs Wii badly!

Got one last weekend but still haven't hooked it up yet as I've visited like 5 places and no Wii Component cables can be purchased... ...suppose I could just hook it up with the standard A/V cable but then I'd have to climb behind the monstrous construct of audio video equipment in my living room twice... ...sad is that if ordered them online, I'd probably already have them...

I pass by a Gamestop every morning on my way to work, so I'll keep an eye out for any Wii's they might have.  Not making any promises of finding one though.

Sigh. When my Gamestop gets another Wii in, I'll tell them to hold it and see if they'll ship it to yours. Margalis, what are you gonna play? Nothing? I kid, I kid. I'll see what I can do.

I'd be perfectly happy with Wii sports. Make sure to keep a reciept in case I manage to find one here...not sure a Gamestop is around here but there must be one in the Boston area...

I'll keep an eye out as well.

You could always use the EB/GameStop store locator on their web site. And yes, there are EB/GameStops in the Boston area.

What can I say about F13?  It's really my favorite website in the entire universe!  I love the irreverent banter and sly wit these keyboard jockeys produce.  And I especially love the staff, they're AWESOME.

you could always try iTrackr. put a buck ninety nine down and have it message you when it was in one of the stores they monitor.

The Target on Commerce sold out 2 hours 32 minutes ago.

Nintendo released Contra 3, Mario Kart 64, Zelda: A Link to the Past (SNES) and a few others on Virtual Console and it was good. Also, since Stray had asked for a flying game for the Wii, there's a game called Wing Island in the works. I can't remember for sure, but it might have a first or second quarter release date this year.

I can't believe I didn't mention Starfox when I originally mentioned flying games. I hear there's one early in the works. Hell, Starfox 64 would be kind of cool too.

The PS3 gets Lair and the Wii doesn't get Pilotwings (yet). Lol.

Damn there's another one. Come to think of it, the 64 had a lot of flying games.

Yes, from the company MAKING Lair. Poor Nintendo. Couldn't keep one of the only third parties that really rocked ass and supported them through the 64.

Contra 3 is one of the best games ever made.

Mario Kart 64 is my favorite one because the skill differential can never get so great that you don't have a chance against another human (Double Dash is like chess in this way- someone "better" than you will beat you 99 times out of 100).  Also, all the weird glitches that let you win races in 15 seconds.

I think Wing Island was a launch title in Japan that they're porting here.  I don't recall hearing a lot of good things about it.

Some artist has started a business selling custom crafted Mii avatars that look like yours. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/01/AR2007020100317.html)

(http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070201/i/r430084553.jpg)

If I don't have a Wii by my birthday I'm killing somebody. At this point it isn't even about playnig games on it - its just about having what I can't have.

Sony PR has been attacking the Wii as an "impulse buy".  :-D

Maybe they're right after all.

It takes several hours of waiting in line before Wii buyers finish the thought.

At $250 there's no point in not owning it if you like games. That said, they need to start coming up with reasons TO own it. And fast.

To make it clear, I'm perfectly happy playing Zelda, Sports and GC titles for a while. I'm way behind in my gaming, I have tons of old games to catch up on. For example I've only played RE4 for about 2 hours.

I'm just saying even if it had no games available I'd still want one at those point, because not owning one is torture.

No need to make excuses. I'd probably be having more fun with Zelda and Wii Sports right now. ;)

I'd almost import the Japanese titles.

I was a reasonable supporter of the Gamecube (I even bought the Baten Kaitos stuff, and a mess of other weird shit for the system) and even I know it's impossible to have "tons" of games worth playing through on the Gamecube. Xbox either. PS2 - well, yea.

Your ton = normal man's ton.

You are using imperial measurement, we are on the metric system.

A normal man's ton given the life of a system is probably somewhere between 10 and 25 games. The Gamecube has about 5 worth playing and maybe 2-3 more if you're drunk and have friends over and own 4 wavebirds.`

That's what mine was. With the PS3 priced at $1k here though (when it's eventually released, plus games, cables, all that shit) there's not a chance in hell I'll be picking up a PS3 as an impulse buy..

And yeah, I have 12 Cube games in total, all of which I'd consider decent or better. 4 for the Wii so far, and until Mario Party comes out, no more must-buys on the horizon. Might check out those Cooking Mama or Trauma Medic things once they come out here though.

It's called Trauma Center. And you have 4 games? I can only think of two that validate a purchase, one of which is probably a rental.

Almost bought a Wii tonight (yes, I actually saw one!). One umpromised system is enough for now though. If anything, I should be impulse buying a 360 or PSP.

Yeah, 4 games. Got two with the console. Wii Sports (pack-in),
Wii Play (as explained, essentially cost me $5 as it was packed-in with a second Wiimote). If it's a similarly-cheap pack-in once it gets released in the US, I recommend it. If not, don't bother.

Later, we got:
Rayman: full of mini-games, got good word of mouth, some of the mini-games are stupidly difficult however for a "casual, party" game.
Monkey Ball: After a rental, it fit the Wii control scheme and was fun (never played previous versions) and just as importantly it has 50 immediately-accessable minigames.(no unlocking bullshit).


Rented several others, including the so-called "A-list" title.
I found Zelda to be boring since it didn't mamage to engage me within 5 minutes of turning it on so it got turned off (that's all the time a console game gets to hook me these days, much like your review of Vanguard, as it happens). Would have liked to swing a sword and so on, but fuck all that JRPG bullshit of being forced to wander around talking to the fucking villagers for ages before you can even go outside. I just don't care enough.

CoD3 was horrid visually and too busy/uncomfortable with the controls.
Red Steel was the same, though slighly less uncomfortable, but with a shitty unskippable long set of Japanese-style bullshit still-image cutscene exposition that I don't care about to piss me off before I could even start playing. I didn't have enough patience to keep wading through it to get to the sword-swinging. Like Zelda, as it turned out.


Seriously, there are so many good games across all formats that once which waste my time before giving me a taste of the good stuff can go get fucked. Novelty control schemes aren't the good stuff.


Out of interest, which are the two games you think are worth a purchase? Bearing in mind that Wii sports is a pack-in so not a seperate purchase.

Damn, pick me up one and I mail you a check plus extra for your trouble!

As far as wii games right now go, depending on your tastes there are certainly games to get but I think we can all agree the number of quality titles is small. I'm ok with that because I don't play that many games in a year and I have no problem owning other systems.

As far as depth of library, 360 is way ahead of Wii and PS3 right now obviously. Nintendo has had pretty lame 3rd party support in the past but I expect that to change a bit because of the Wii installed base and the fact that many developers just plain want to work on it.

Yeah, I was just wondering what Schild's choices were. I'm ok with a small number of games if the ones I have are good. It's clearly the loser as far as cross-platform games go though.

Bought mine this weekend, friend at Best Buy held onto one for me.

Unfortunately, there isn't a single brick and mortar store within 40 miles of me that has a wiimote or nunchuck in stock.   I managed to play 30 mins of Wii sports w/ the wife (1 controller ftl though) before the peytonbowl last night, and we had a good time.

It is by no means a replacement for 'people that like games', but anything that lets me and the wife have something to do together that is fun is ++++++ in my book.

Still don't know why Schild is ragging on it.

This is where I call you a honeymoon gamer.

Edit: But it's out of love.

It's true.

Also, I have signed no gaming prenup.

I agree. Everything except Wii Sports and Zelda is uninspiring. Virtual Console is irrelevant - old games I don't want to pay the asking price for. The only things I'm planning on buying for my Wii are GameCube titles I missed out on by never trying that console.

But I also agree that developers just plain want to work on the Wii. Especially now that the console has market penetration. There will be a time lag until the developers' cool ideas reach the market, but I'm sure the Wii will get more reasons to own one.

I think there's more than just Wii Sports and Zelda, but they're simply not the type of games that I would play much. I could have a lot of fun with Super Swing or Rayman, and maybe Elebits, but mainly with other people. Same goes for Wii Sports. Great game -- still don't care.

I'm a lone gamer. I'm more into immersing myself in single player action and adventure titles these days (though not always), and Zelda is the only title appealing to me on that front.

Probably the smart thing to do for me is just wait for Galaxy to come out, and then get Twilight at the same time. After that, cross my fingers and hope Nintendo does more of the same later (instead of fronting with this Parker Brothers shit again). More platformers, more story based titles from their licenses, more catering to developers who do this, and generally just more loner games like they have on the DS. That's what I want from Nintendo.

The Wii does some to be picking up some 3rd party development right now.  Konami for instance recently went over their 2007 releases (http://www.konami.com/ctlimg/konami/pressrelease/02_02_07_gd2007_lineup.pdf), and they've got 4 Wii games scheduled for this year.  The PS3 in comparison has the multi-platform Hellboy game, and (not listed in that link), possibly MGS4 if it makes it before the end of the year.  360 has Winning Eleven, Hellboy, and a DDR game, and there's 8 DS and 4 PSP games in the works as well.

You did... see what the Wii games are, right? Dewy's is the only interesting one, and even then, it's questionable whether the Elebits guys can create any depth. Nintendo really needs a MAJOR PLAYER making shit for the Wii, they don't need publishers farming shit out to their small devs. The DS on the other hand is the exact oppisite of the Wii. You don't even buy a DS for the first party stuff. One could even argue that Konami's bread and butter IS the DS.

I'm going to guess that is why everyone wants to get in there.  The DS is easy to make games for and it has a massive install base; looks like the Wii is going to be similar... including the length of time that something superb will come out for it, but N does not need to worry about that too much with the way they are flying off the shelves.  It will be the Big DS that connects to your TV, and hopefully it will attract some third-party attention that is even a fraction of what the DS has.

While buying Rogue Galaxy today, I asked the guy at GameStab if he had any Wiis to go with the empty boxes on the shelf.  He said that they had a shipment that morning and a fistfight almost broke out.  Crazy.

There's a DDR game also, which doesn't appeal to me, but there's certainly a market for it.  There's nothing of MGS4 caliber there of course, but the Wii titles do at least sound more interesting than a multi-platform Hellboy game.

Wing Island could be cool. I'd mention that before stuff like DDR.

But yeah, Dewey's Adventure. Boy am I envious. ;).

Actually, the Wii still wins because of future Konami titles on VC. Of that I am envious.

Why? The Contra and Castlevania series are going to XBL. And you'll get MGS on the PS3.

Hmm, good point.

Though old Gradius and Metal Gears would be cool. Then again, it wouldn't surprise me if they came to the ps3 as well.

Gradius is a free for all. It's already on the PSP - in fact, almost all the old shooters are going for the PSP, so as far as the consoles go, probably the PS3.

Watching your wii hate fest is amusing, but you are talking as a hard core gamer which may not actually be the target market for the wii. I can imagine a large number of smaller development houses developing their own following for an IP they nurture over multiple releases. Stuff like pikmin, pokemon, phoenix wright, brain training or the harvest moon series (not to mention all the weird anime stuff and asian RPG's). Given a huge installed base and cheap development they can afford to target smaller markets.

The MAJOR PLAYERS will surely want a far more powerful machine to show off their investment in technology and an audience who are more united in their tastes and always happy for an ever more shiny, bigger budget, version of the same thing. In that category the 360 is looking like the leading contender, much as I detest microsoft. As a thought experiment try to imagine a gamer for whom "gears of war" or "resistance: fall of man" is ultimately just another shooter and not even worth being interested in.

Ignore Schild when he talks about consoles.  He is a fickle, fickle man.  He gets excited about things early, builds them up in his mind as something that could kick ass, and when it doesn't fit with what he thought it would be (or hoped), then he is hurt and says, "Oh, fuck that system/game/NGE/whatevs."  Sometimes he's right that something sucks or that something rocks.  Sometimes he's not. 

 Just because someone spends all of their disposable income on something doesn't mean that they're likely to be right all the time.  I know a guy who does wayyyy too much coke to the point of fucking up his life, but I don't take his advice on my recreational spending.   :wink:

Surely I have no stake in low-budget, fun games. (http://www.f13.net/images/nds_huge.jpg)

Don't be retarded.

The Wii sucks because the games suck. And you know what, the PS3 sucks right now short of being a $600 Blu-Ray player and having a new, super-light wireless controller to play my PS2 games on. But at least it has that.

Taking the last generation as an example, there were quite a few titles that brought something new to the table. They weren't just rehashes of previous generation games, but with more shiny. I can agree that the market is saturated with shooters, but even then, there's innovation in those too. You're just looking at things in the most superficial way possible.

Some titles might seem played out and overly sequeled, but really, most of those are only 3 or 4 years old too. For example, we saw the rise of the roaming action game (GTA); stealth shooters that made use of dynamic lighting (Splinter Cell); 3D beat em ups finally getting it right (way back at DMC's launch); much broader use of physics (too many to list); things like the EyeToy, Okami, Katamari Damacy, or Guitar Hero. To name a few (I'm probably doing an injustice for listing so few).

And even when games weren't "innovating", they could still be mind blowing (I'd take Ico and SotC over Bowling with a Wiimote. Sorry.).

[EDIT] Look, I like the Wii, but my basic point is that Nintendo PR would try to convince you that "games were stagnating", and that we were in dire need of the Wiimote. But the truth is, they just wanted to save money this gen, and had a fairly cool wildcard that enabled them from falling into obscurity.


As a thought experiment, imagine that gamer being just another shallow dumbass who hasn't actually played those titles. Just because they're shooters doesn't mean they're rehashes of Quake and Doom. Gears brought some new things in terms of back-to-the-wall firefights, and Insomniac introduced some pretty interesting ideas with weapons.

They were right. Games ARE stagnating. We've taken to tossing billions of pixels at what are in essence variations on the same goddamn game. 10 years from now, gamepads should seem weak sauce for your grandfather, much less a new generation of gamers. You guys keep trying to pigeonhole the Wii as a 5-10 year life cycle machine. IT ISN'T. It's an R&D console for the next gen Nintendo device that will be HD and will have much more immersive controls.

As for the games right now, it's got good games on the system, about as much percentage wise as other consoles. Cheap-ass, brokeass me owns 2 games bought at full price; normally all but 1 out of 10 of my games are bought used.

Pretty sad Haemish. What freakin' games are you playing anyways?

As for myself, I've had as much fun with games now as I had when I was 12. The PS2 library alone is equal to, if not better than, the SNES in it's day.

What's so sad?

For the Wii, I have Zelda and Madden NFL 2007. I've been renting a bunch, all of which I've already reviewed. I VC'ed Contra 3, Street Fighter 2 and Super Mario Bros. 3. I've also gotten heavily back into FIFA 07 for the X-Box. I itch in all my nether regions for a FIFA game on the Wii. I'm enjoying the games I have. I want to see Nintendo and especially the 3rd party guys put out more games, but I'm happy with what I have too.

That you actually believe that.

I have no problems with the games your enjoying on the Wii, good for you....But saying that games in general are stagnating is sad. Sad, sad, sad. Games are creating new crowds, not losing them. Games are still coming out with new ideas (whether it be through software or hardware), not rehashing old ones. I admit that there are many more games to sift through than there were in the past, but innovation still exists.

Only the maker of the GameCube would try to convince everyone that games are stagnating.

However, that isn't to say that the Wii doesn't bring something new. It does. I'm just saying it isn't the only way to bring something new. There are all kinds of ways to innovate and create new gameplay: Controls are the obvious one, but believe it or not, graphics can enable new ways for developers to look at things. AI can. Physics can. Plain old clever game design can -- And has -- And will still remain the main way you'll see new ideas.

It's not sad, it's fucking true.

MMOG's haven't innovated enough in 9 years to have gone from single-to-double celled lifeforms, despite the adoption of broadband and greater graphical capacity. The biggest innovation in the last 9 years in FPS games has been vehicles. The biggest innovation in RPG's, platformers and RTS has been "true" 3d. Adventure games are mostly dead as a mainstream game genre. Sports games haven't innovated since the addition of licensed players other than online play, and we have EA to thank for that.

The most innovative genre of game has been puzzle type games, with things like Katamari.

The rest? SAME OLD SHIT. Not that games from the same old shit can't be quite good, but they are still the same shit with a new wrapper. KOTOR/Jade Empire is NWN with Star Wars/Martial arts skins, and NWN was just Diablo with D&D rules and a construction set. The most innovative thing I've seen in sports games in a decade was the NFL 2k4 addition of First Person Football, which died a horrible death at the hands of the EA juggernaut.

And the next-gen of consoles (and PC games) has done nothing but promise us more realistic graphics. Physics as well, but there have been precious few applications of that besides rag-doll bodies in FPS. The next-gen consoles have thrown up more pixels into our laps along with a controller that is a more refined version of last year's controller. Man-machine interface is the next step of innovation. We've already seen it with things like Guitar Hero, DDR and the like. The Wii just made it systemic.

OK, agree with you there. That's a problem with MMOG devs barely even qualifying as game designers in my book though. It's not a microcosm of the games industry (hell no)


So we're talking about "big" innovations now? I mean....I guess I can agree with you there. Nobody has made gigantic leaps and bounds (and they won't with the Wiimote either). They've made small leaps and bounds. Innovation does exist. Might not be "big" innovation, but still...

As for RPG's, more action oriented mechanics are just as important to me as "3D". They're becoming more and more like traditional action titles -- except with deeper stat/equipment/character building.

Go play Rogue Galaxy ;)

/viral

RTS's and FPS's are full of small/evolutionary innovations. I'm sorry if they're not big enough for you though.

I think Team ICO, the ex-Clover folks, and Shinji Mikami have some beef with Haemish's new brand of bullshit.

And I care about them why? Oh right, I don't.

Don't care about Resident Evil, Killer 7, Okami, or Shadow of the Colossus? That's cool, but it just makes you look like a fool. Actually, it doesn't make you look like a fool so much as ignorant. You're preaching a sermon that's half-assed and reveals how uninformed you are about the state of games, well, console games at least.

Edit: I bet you'll care about Suda 51 by the end of the year. But do you even know who he is?

Seriously though, it isn't fair to try to make that assessment about stagnating games when you ignore something like Okami (and many others).

Shadows of the Colossus or Okami are not burdens to be loathed. Go play them.

[EDIT]

Do you even have a PS2 though? I can't recall. I know you had an XB and GC. Did you at least like RE4 and Ninja Gaiden? It wasn't all Madden and Fable was it? I'd be hating games too if that was the case.

So who is winning the fight for the last tater tot?

I'm fighting for the sake of it. Don't care about tater tots. It's a fun subject. God forbid I argue about games on F13.  8-)

Played some We <3 Katamari tonight.  Fine game that would not exist without the bulldozer-control scheme made possible by dual analog sticks.  A game like that will come out for the Wii eventually, but it doesn't really exist now.  A right-handed Link does not count for anything.

I'd like to see a Killer7 for Wii, actually.  Just anything that uses the contoller properly.  I "finished" Dawn of Sorrow recently and the misuse of the stylus is fresh in my mind, plus there's now the "why doesn't this work better" I get when using the stylus in Children of Mana.  Sigh.  Sometimes the controller that designers are accustomed to pays off, letting them concentrate on making Rogue Galaxy instead of putting stylus minigames into boss fights, and kicking your sack when you mess it up.

I know, I'm just bored and the whole tater tot slapfight was the best I could muster for a snarky post. 

It was as weak as Haemish's argument that the Wii breaks the stagnation in gaming. But that's ok, you know what a tater tot is.

The Wii is clearly something new. Games are never totally stagnant but I don't think we need 3 systems with the same types of games on them. In interviews the EA guys said that the "innovative" new feature of the 360 was HD....huh?

I'm happy with novel games an with old favorites done better.

Right now it is true that the Wii isn't great. Neither is the PS3. Neither was the 360 when it came out. That is how console launches are.

Yes, it is how console launches are. But why did you (and many others, Haemish included), care about what EA is saying? it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. They appeal to the masses. The Joe Six-Packs. The mouthbreathers. To them, hi-def IS innovative.

Yeah, and I know when you're channeling Comic Book Guy.  Case in point:


Caring about what EA says is important specifically because they appeal to the masses.  You know, the market that most large corporations try to capture.  They may seem unsophisticated or unwashed to you, but you're a game fanatic who spends all of his money and recreation time on games.  You're not hard to capture.  Hell, you bought the latest Zelda TWICE.  Basically, paying attention to what the guys at EA are saying is important because the mainstream trends are what's fucking up gaming.  Know thy object of pretentious derision and all that.

I also got all of my money back for the latest Zelda.

Twice.

You know what I do? I ignore the fucking mainstream. The gaming outlook is a lot brighter that way, and trust me, there's no shortage in niche gaming, not even on the 360.

So, you used to work at the EBStop, right?  Doesn't Ninty still get the dough for both purchases?  How does the store process that stuff?  I know that on the lawyer side, there'd be all kinds of numbers tweaking on returns, but when it's a game done in-house, I doubt there's too much hassle for them.


I agree with you on that.  Most mainstream games DO suck.  If I had the time to invest in a new system right now, I'd be getting a 360 and a Wii (the price point on the PS3 is shit, IMO).  I do think that it's important to at least track the trends in the mainstream -- that's where the majority of investment dough seems to be going.  Heck, there's yet another flash game site up according to Raph...that shit is about as mainstream as you can get.  Zillions of office workers and housewives can't be wrong. 

Not every game has to be Okami or Katamari, but if they were, then the standout titles would just be titles.   

I'd consider God of War or Resident Evil 4 mainstream titles, but they're pretty damn great games anyways.

Hell, even EA has a few from the past several years (like it or not): Sims, Burnout, Battlefield, SSX...

You don't have to look in the alleyways to find something interesting.

Hmm.  I bet I could find a used copy of SSX Tricky somewhere....that'd be good for goofing off between tedious projects.

Killer 7 sucked monkey balls through a straw. Resident Evil 4 I care about, the rest not so much. The Resident Evil's I've played before 4 always had really awkward controls that made me feel like I was fighting the controller and the game instead of the stuff inside the game.  The other two I haven't played because I don't own a PS2. Not sure I'd play Okami, but wouldn't mind Shadow.

I never said there couldn't be innovative games, just that there really aren't that many and most of what we get with the controllers we had before the Wii is the same game in the same controllers with new skins. The Wii forces devs to think differently and out of that will be new types of games, as well as old types of games played in completely new ways (such as the sword fighting in Red Steel and the Madden controls).

EDIT: Oh and the Wii doesn't charge me a premium for being a gamer. Yes, no matter how many pixels a Blu-Ray can push, $600 for a console (hell, even $400) is a premium to me.