Wii Q&A Thread

[Margalis]

Almost bought a Wii tonight (yes, I actually saw one!). One umpromised system is enough for now though. If anything, I should be impulse buying a 360 or PSP.

Damn, pick me up one and I mail you a check plus extra for your trouble!

As far as wii games right now go, depending on your tastes there are certainly games to get but I think we can all agree the number of quality titles is small. I'm ok with that because I don't play that many games in a year and I have no problem owning other systems.

As far as depth of library, 360 is way ahead of Wii and PS3 right now obviously. Nintendo has had pretty lame 3rd party support in the past but I expect that to change a bit because of the Wii installed base and the fact that many developers just plain want to work on it.

[Azazel]

Yeah, I was just wondering what Schild's choices were. I'm ok with a small number of games if the ones I have are good. It's clearly the loser as far as cross-platform games go though.

[MrHat]

Bought mine this weekend, friend at Best Buy held onto one for me.

Unfortunately, there isn't a single brick and mortar store within 40 miles of me that has a wiimote or nunchuck in stock.   I managed to play 30 mins of Wii sports w/ the wife (1 controller ftl though) before the peytonbowl last night, and we had a good time.

It is by no means a replacement for 'people that like games', but anything that lets me and the wife have something to do together that is fun is ++++++ in my book.

Still don't know why Schild is ragging on it.

[schild]

This is where I call you a honeymoon gamer.

Edit: But it's out of love.

[MrHat]

It's true.

Also, I have signed no gaming prenup.

[Tale]

At $250 there's no point in not owning it if you like games. That said, they need to start coming up with reasons TO own it. And fast.

I agree. Everything except Wii Sports and Zelda is uninspiring. Virtual Console is irrelevant - old games I don't want to pay the asking price for. The only things I'm planning on buying for my Wii are GameCube titles I missed out on by never trying that console.

But I also agree that developers just plain want to work on the Wii. Especially now that the console has market penetration. There will be a time lag until the developers' cool ideas reach the market, but I'm sure the Wii will get more reasons to own one.

[stray]

I think there's more than just Wii Sports and Zelda, but they're simply not the type of games that I would play much. I could have a lot of fun with Super Swing or Rayman, and maybe Elebits, but mainly with other people. Same goes for Wii Sports. Great game -- still don't care.

I'm a lone gamer. I'm more into immersing myself in single player action and adventure titles these days (though not always), and Zelda is the only title appealing to me on that front.

Probably the smart thing to do for me is just wait for Galaxy to come out, and then get Twilight at the same time. After that, cross my fingers and hope Nintendo does more of the same later (instead of fronting with this Parker Brothers shit again). More platformers, more story based titles from their licenses, more catering to developers who do this, and generally just more loner games like they have on the DS. That's what I want from Nintendo.

[Velorath]

But I also agree that developers just plain want to work on the Wii. Especially now that the console has market penetration. There will be a time lag until the developers' cool ideas reach the market, but I'm sure the Wii will get more reasons to own one.

The Wii does some to be picking up some 3rd party development right now.  Konami for instance recently went over their 2007 releases, and they've got 4 Wii games scheduled for this year.  The PS3 in comparison has the multi-platform Hellboy game, and (not listed in that link), possibly MGS4 if it makes it before the end of the year.  360 has Winning Eleven, Hellboy, and a DDR game, and there's 8 DS and 4 PSP games in the works as well.

[schild]

You did... see what the Wii games are, right? Dewy's is the only interesting one, and even then, it's questionable whether the Elebits guys can create any depth. Nintendo really needs a MAJOR PLAYER making shit for the Wii, they don't need publishers farming shit out to their small devs. The DS on the other hand is the exact oppisite of the Wii. You don't even buy a DS for the first party stuff. One could even argue that Konami's bread and butter IS the DS.

[Yegolev]

I'm going to guess that is why everyone wants to get in there.  The DS is easy to make games for and it has a massive install base; looks like the Wii is going to be similar... including the length of time that something superb will come out for it, but N does not need to worry about that too much with the way they are flying off the shelves.  It will be the Big DS that connects to your TV, and hopefully it will attract some third-party attention that is even a fraction of what the DS has.

While buying Rogue Galaxy today, I asked the guy at GameStab if he had any Wiis to go with the empty boxes on the shelf.  He said that they had a shipment that morning and a fistfight almost broke out.  Crazy.

[Velorath]

You did... see what the Wii games are, right? Dewy's is the only interesting one, and even then, it's questionable whether the Elebits guys can create any depth.

There's a DDR game also, which doesn't appeal to me, but there's certainly a market for it.  There's nothing of MGS4 caliber there of course, but the Wii titles do at least sound more interesting than a multi-platform Hellboy game.

[stray]

Wing Island could be cool. I'd mention that before stuff like DDR.

But yeah, Dewey's Adventure. Boy am I envious. ;).

Actually, the Wii still wins because of future Konami titles on VC. Of that I am envious.

[schild]

Why? The Contra and Castlevania series are going to XBL. And you'll get MGS on the PS3.

[stray]

Hmm, good point.

Though old Gradius and Metal Gears would be cool. Then again, it wouldn't surprise me if they came to the ps3 as well.

[schild]

Gradius is a free for all. It's already on the PSP - in fact, almost all the old shooters are going for the PSP, so as far as the consoles go, probably the PS3.

[Kageru]

You did... see what the Wii games are, right? Dewy's is the only interesting one, and even then, it's questionable whether the Elebits guys can create any depth. Nintendo really needs a MAJOR PLAYER making shit for the Wii, they don't need publishers farming shit out to their small devs. The DS on the other hand is the exact oppisite of the Wii. You don't even buy a DS for the first party stuff. One could even argue that Konami's bread and butter IS the DS.

Watching your wii hate fest is amusing, but you are talking as a hard core gamer which may not actually be the target market for the wii. I can imagine a large number of smaller development houses developing their own following for an IP they nurture over multiple releases. Stuff like pikmin, pokemon, phoenix wright, brain training or the harvest moon series (not to mention all the weird anime stuff and asian RPG's). Given a huge installed base and cheap development they can afford to target smaller markets.

The MAJOR PLAYERS will surely want a far more powerful machine to show off their investment in technology and an audience who are more united in their tastes and always happy for an ever more shiny, bigger budget, version of the same thing. In that category the 360 is looking like the leading contender, much as I detest microsoft. As a thought experiment try to imagine a gamer for whom "gears of war" or "resistance: fall of man" is ultimately just another shooter and not even worth being interested in.

[CmdrSlack]

You did... see what the Wii games are, right? Dewy's is the only interesting one, and even then, it's questionable whether the Elebits guys can create any depth. Nintendo really needs a MAJOR PLAYER making shit for the Wii, they don't need publishers farming shit out to their small devs. The DS on the other hand is the exact oppisite of the Wii. You don't even buy a DS for the first party stuff. One could even argue that Konami's bread and butter IS the DS.

Watching your wii hate fest is amusing, but you are talking as a hard core gamer which may not actually be the target market for the wii. I can imagine a large number of smaller development houses developing their own following for an IP they nurture over multiple releases. Stuff like pikmin, pokemon, phoenix wright, brain training or the harvest moon series (not to mention all the weird anime stuff and asian RPG's). Given a huge installed base and cheap development they can afford to target smaller markets.

The MAJOR PLAYERS will surely want a far more powerful machine to show off their investment in technology and an audience who are more united in their tastes and always happy for an ever more shiny, bigger budget, version of the same thing. In that category the 360 is looking like the leading contender, much as I detest microsoft. As a thought experiment try to imagine a gamer for whom "gears of war" or "resistance: fall of man" is ultimately just another shooter and not even worth being interested in.

Ignore Schild when he talks about consoles.  He is a fickle, fickle man.  He gets excited about things early, builds them up in his mind as something that could kick ass, and when it doesn't fit with what he thought it would be (or hoped), then he is hurt and says, "Oh, fuck that system/game/NGE/whatevs."  Sometimes he's right that something sucks or that something rocks.  Sometimes he's not. 

 Just because someone spends all of their disposable income on something doesn't mean that they're likely to be right all the time.  I know a guy who does wayyyy too much coke to the point of fucking up his life, but I don't take his advice on my recreational spending.   

[schild]

Surely I have no stake in low-budget, fun games.

Don't be retarded.

The Wii sucks because the games suck. And you know what, the PS3 sucks right now short of being a $600 Blu-Ray player and having a new, super-light wireless controller to play my PS2 games on. But at least it has that.

[stray]

The MAJOR PLAYERS will surely want a far more powerful machine to show off their investment in technology and an audience who are more united in their tastes and always happy for an ever more shiny, bigger budget, version of the same thing.

Taking the last generation as an example, there were quite a few titles that brought something new to the table. They weren't just rehashes of previous generation games, but with more shiny. I can agree that the market is saturated with shooters, but even then, there's innovation in those too. You're just looking at things in the most superficial way possible.

Some titles might seem played out and overly sequeled, but really, most of those are only 3 or 4 years old too. For example, we saw the rise of the roaming action game (GTA); stealth shooters that made use of dynamic lighting (Splinter Cell); 3D beat em ups finally getting it right (way back at DMC's launch); much broader use of physics (too many to list); things like the EyeToy, Okami, Katamari Damacy, or Guitar Hero. To name a few (I'm probably doing an injustice for listing so few).

And even when games weren't "innovating", they could still be mind blowing (I'd take Ico and SotC over Bowling with a Wiimote. Sorry.).

[EDIT] Look, I like the Wii, but my basic point is that Nintendo PR would try to convince you that "games were stagnating", and that we were in dire need of the Wiimote. But the truth is, they just wanted to save money this gen, and had a fairly cool wildcard that enabled them from falling into obscurity.

As a thought experiment try to imagine a gamer for whom "gears of war" or "resistance: fall of man" is ultimately just another shooter and not even worth being interested in.

As a thought experiment, imagine that gamer being just another shallow dumbass who hasn't actually played those titles. Just because they're shooters doesn't mean they're rehashes of Quake and Doom. Gears brought some new things in terms of back-to-the-wall firefights, and Insomniac introduced some pretty interesting ideas with weapons.

[HaemishM]

Look, I like the Wii, but my basic point is that Nintendo PR would try to convince you that "games were stagnating", and that we were in dire need of the Wiimote.

They were right. Games ARE stagnating. We've taken to tossing billions of pixels at what are in essence variations on the same goddamn game. 10 years from now, gamepads should seem weak sauce for your grandfather, much less a new generation of gamers. You guys keep trying to pigeonhole the Wii as a 5-10 year life cycle machine. IT ISN'T. It's an R&D console for the next gen Nintendo device that will be HD and will have much more immersive controls.

As for the games right now, it's got good games on the system, about as much percentage wise as other consoles. Cheap-ass, brokeass me owns 2 games bought at full price; normally all but 1 out of 10 of my games are bought used.

[stray]

Pretty sad Haemish. What freakin' games are you playing anyways?

As for myself, I've had as much fun with games now as I had when I was 12. The PS2 library alone is equal to, if not better than, the SNES in it's day.

[HaemishM]

What's so sad?

For the Wii, I have Zelda and Madden NFL 2007. I've been renting a bunch, all of which I've already reviewed. I VC'ed Contra 3, Street Fighter 2 and Super Mario Bros. 3. I've also gotten heavily back into FIFA 07 for the X-Box. I itch in all my nether regions for a FIFA game on the Wii. I'm enjoying the games I have. I want to see Nintendo and especially the 3rd party guys put out more games, but I'm happy with what I have too.

[stray]

What's so sad?

That you actually believe that.

I have no problems with the games your enjoying on the Wii, good for you....But saying that games in general are stagnating is sad. Sad, sad, sad. Games are creating new crowds, not losing them. Games are still coming out with new ideas (whether it be through software or hardware), not rehashing old ones. I admit that there are many more games to sift through than there were in the past, but innovation still exists.

Only the maker of the GameCube would try to convince everyone that games are stagnating.

However, that isn't to say that the Wii doesn't bring something new. It does. I'm just saying it isn't the only way to bring something new. There are all kinds of ways to innovate and create new gameplay: Controls are the obvious one, but believe it or not, graphics can enable new ways for developers to look at things. AI can. Physics can. Plain old clever game design can -- And has -- And will still remain the main way you'll see new ideas.

[HaemishM]

It's not sad, it's fucking true.

MMOG's haven't innovated enough in 9 years to have gone from single-to-double celled lifeforms, despite the adoption of broadband and greater graphical capacity. The biggest innovation in the last 9 years in FPS games has been vehicles. The biggest innovation in RPG's, platformers and RTS has been "true" 3d. Adventure games are mostly dead as a mainstream game genre. Sports games haven't innovated since the addition of licensed players other than online play, and we have EA to thank for that.

The most innovative genre of game has been puzzle type games, with things like Katamari.

The rest? SAME OLD SHIT. Not that games from the same old shit can't be quite good, but they are still the same shit with a new wrapper. KOTOR/Jade Empire is NWN with Star Wars/Martial arts skins, and NWN was just Diablo with D&D rules and a construction set. The most innovative thing I've seen in sports games in a decade was the NFL 2k4 addition of First Person Football, which died a horrible death at the hands of the EA juggernaut.

And the next-gen of consoles (and PC games) has done nothing but promise us more realistic graphics. Physics as well, but there have been precious few applications of that besides rag-doll bodies in FPS. The next-gen consoles have thrown up more pixels into our laps along with a controller that is a more refined version of last year's controller. Man-machine interface is the next step of innovation. We've already seen it with things like Guitar Hero, DDR and the like. The Wii just made it systemic.

[stray]

It's not sad, it's fucking true.

MMOG's haven't innovated enough in 9 years to have gone from single-to-double celled lifeforms, despite the adoption of broadband and greater graphical capacity.

OK, agree with you there. That's a problem with MMOG devs barely even qualifying as game designers in my book though. It's not a microcosm of the games industry (hell no)

The biggest innovation in the last 9 years in FPS games has been vehicles. The biggest innovation in RPG's, platformers and RTS has been "true" 3d.

So we're talking about "big" innovations now? I mean....I guess I can agree with you there. Nobody has made gigantic leaps and bounds (and they won't with the Wiimote either). They've made small leaps and bounds. Innovation does exist. Might not be "big" innovation, but still...

As for RPG's, more action oriented mechanics are just as important to me as "3D". They're becoming more and more like traditional action titles -- except with deeper stat/equipment/character building.

Go play Rogue Galaxy ;)

/viral

RTS's and FPS's are full of small/evolutionary innovations. I'm sorry if they're not big enough for you though.

[schild]

I think Team ICO, the ex-Clover folks, and Shinji Mikami have some beef with Haemish's new brand of bullshit.

[HaemishM]

And I care about them why? Oh right, I don't.

[schild]

Don't care about Resident Evil, Killer 7, Okami, or Shadow of the Colossus? That's cool, but it just makes you look like a fool. Actually, it doesn't make you look like a fool so much as ignorant. You're preaching a sermon that's half-assed and reveals how uninformed you are about the state of games, well, console games at least.

Edit: I bet you'll care about Suda 51 by the end of the year. But do you even know who he is?

[stray]

And I care about them why? Oh right, I don't.

Seriously though, it isn't fair to try to make that assessment about stagnating games when you ignore something like Okami (and many others).

Shadows of the Colossus or Okami are not burdens to be loathed. Go play them.

[EDIT]

Do you even have a PS2 though? I can't recall. I know you had an XB and GC. Did you at least like RE4 and Ninja Gaiden? It wasn't all Madden and Fable was it? I'd be hating games too if that was the case.

[CmdrSlack]

So who is winning the fight for the last tater tot?

[stray]

I'm fighting for the sake of it. Don't care about tater tots. It's a fun subject. God forbid I argue about games on F13. 

[Yegolev]

Played some We <3 Katamari tonight.  Fine game that would not exist without the bulldozer-control scheme made possible by dual analog sticks.  A game like that will come out for the Wii eventually, but it doesn't really exist now.  A right-handed Link does not count for anything.

I'd like to see a Killer7 for Wii, actually.  Just anything that uses the contoller properly.  I "finished" Dawn of Sorrow recently and the misuse of the stylus is fresh in my mind, plus there's now the "why doesn't this work better" I get when using the stylus in Children of Mana.  Sigh.  Sometimes the controller that designers are accustomed to pays off, letting them concentrate on making Rogue Galaxy instead of putting stylus minigames into boss fights, and kicking your sack when you mess it up.

[CmdrSlack]

I'm fighting for the sake of it. Don't care about tater tots. It's a fun subject. God forbid I argue about games on F13. 

I know, I'm just bored and the whole tater tot slapfight was the best I could muster for a snarky post. 

[schild]

It was as weak as Haemish's argument that the Wii breaks the stagnation in gaming. But that's ok, you know what a tater tot is.

[Margalis]

The Wii is clearly something new. Games are never totally stagnant but I don't think we need 3 systems with the same types of games on them. In interviews the EA guys said that the "innovative" new feature of the 360 was HD....huh?

I'm happy with novel games an with old favorites done better.

Right now it is true that the Wii isn't great. Neither is the PS3. Neither was the 360 when it came out. That is how console launches are.