Wii Q&A Thread

[Margalis]

My point is that before RE4 all the REs played basically the same way. I'm not saying RE is a bad game, I like RE. But if you want to complain about games re-using the same thing over and over that is the perfect example. Same weapons, same basic gameplay, etc. Up to 4 RE is basically one or two games + 6 expansion packs. Find the white chess piece or the heart-key or whatever...

You can tell a cohesive story without having the exact same gameplay over and over again. But that isn't even my point. My point is that "hey, this sure is a lot like the rest of the games in this series" apply to a whole lot of games, and many of them much more than Zelda or other Nintendo games.

[schild]

Many of the Nintendo games are key parts of my childhood. I loved them like siblings. They have not grown up with me. I thought, maybe, Twilight Princess would do that. But the moment Gamespot said what they said, I realized I was kidding myself. Throwing in a new controller does not make a paradigm shift. RE4 on the other hand grew up within a console generation. Short of tightening it, Capcom may have very well created what is the single best way to play a survival horror title. Zelda, at a base level is tight and polished like a Blizzard game. But much like WoW, it offers me positively nothing new. Not in story, gameplay, or anything else. It's Zelda - again. I'm not saying that's a bad thing for most people, especially people who want Zelda again.

But as Litigator said, 2D is Zelda to me. I can go back and get the same experience people are getting now with Twilight Princess. LttP does not feel dated to me. It is timeless.

Having played RE4, it is very fucking hard to go back to the old RE titles. VERY HARD. As I said, RE reinvented itself within  ONE console generation. This is the fourth generation since the SNES came out and we're still playing the exact same Zelda - rendered in 3D! They may as well have recreated LttP in 3D.

[Velorath]

RE had to reinvent itself because it had churned out the same game over half a dozen times during the ps1/2 era, not even getting into Dino Crisis which used the same gameplay.  People were loosing interest in the series fast.  On the Zelda side, there's been three games in the modern Zelda era that started with OOT, and a lot of people didn't care for the art style of Wind Waker.  The series doesn't have to reinvent itself quite yet because unlike most PS franchises, fans haven't had the same rehashed games shoved down their throats every year or two.

edit: 

Many of the Nintendo games are key parts of my childhood. I loved them like siblings. They have not grown up with me.

And yet you loved FFXII, which is a good game but in my eyes is part of a series that epitomizes not growing up with the audience.  And no, throwing in some MMO trappings into the gameplay doesn't equal growing up.

[schild]

Odd, I hated VIII through X-2. I thought the structure and story in FFXII was pretty grown up comparatively.

[Velorath]

FFXII had some of the weakest characterization in the series, and the story treaded water in order to have excuses to send you from "dungeon" to "dungeon".  The result was a terribly paced story with characters that could be described in totality by two sentences or less each.  If there was ever a series that needed complete and total reinventing, it's FF.

[Strazos]

I've heard quite a few people complain that there was simply not enough story in FF XII. In particular, quite a few people wanted some sort of romance story arc.

I can't comment on the totality of the game as I'm only a few hours into it, but when I see how Vaan interacts with Panelo, and I am told that "That's pretty much it between them," I can see how that might be a problem.

[Rasix]

No, quite honestly, there isn't enough story.  It leaves me wanting more.  A lot happens, but at the same time, I'm near the end and I can hardly believe it.

I like the characters.  I like the interactions of Vaan, Ashe, Penelo, Fran, Basche... I'm almost glad they didn't drum up an awkward romance between Vaan/Ashe or Ashe/Baltheir.. etc.  You have the feeling that the urgency of what they're doing has no time for romance and that one wouldn't naturally develop between the characters they've chosen. Hey.. it spares me another FFX "laughing" scene. At no point in this story have I cringed at the bad writing or bad acting (well, kinda.. one scene near the end was sloppily written).     

They did develop the supporting cast rather well.  Some of the more poignant moments in the game comes from characters other than the main.

Still, I could have used more of everything story wise.  Especially since what is present is, IMO, of high quality and a lot more mature than what we've seen from this series. Common, that one scene with Gabranth you'd expect to come form the pen of someone like George RR Martin.. not the FF writing crew.

Part of the abbreviated nature could be from the sidequests being in step with the main plot, dragging you from it for great chunks of time.  Another could be the introductory period for this game is seriously 5-6 hours long.  Still, I thought I had 10 hours or more to go and the end has just snuck up on me.

Story problems aside, it's my favorite FF since 6.

[Strazos]

So far, I feel FF 7 was more engaging from the get-go. Actually, me and a buddy were discussing this, so he decided he needed another run through 7. Maybe it's nostalgia, but they get you going in the story much more quickly in 7.

Also, we were laughing at the character models, though the pre-rendered backgrounds still hold up fairly well. I still believe there is something to be said for pre-rendered stuff over full 3D.

[Roac]

Zelda, FF, and RE have all been fairly close within their respective series.  FF is a story-driven RPG.  RE is a survival horror.  Zelda is a dungeon crawl to save the kingdom/princess.  At various times, they each have gotten better and worse with respect to hitting the mark for what defines them, but you won't see RE turn into a story-driven RPG or Zelda into a survival horror.  That would be "reinventing themselves". 

The RE4 is so great is because they finally had everything come together: the story, controls, monster timing, graphics.  Ok, the story was about plagas instead of Umbrella's biochems, but that's just a name.  It's madlib, just with a different author this go 'round.  It worked this time because it all came together "just right", but it is not fundamentally different from the original RE.  FF(any) is fundamentally different from RE4:  RE4 is just an updated and greatly improved version of RE.  Same thing with FF VII (for me it was the US release of FFII), or LttP on SNES.  When it all comes together just right, you know it. 

Twilight Princess?  Well, I've only played it for a few hours last night, but I'd say the gamespot score of 8.8 is about right.  Granted I'm only a few hours in, but it isn't registering that AHA! moment that I've gotten with other games.  It's *good*, and if you're getting a Wii you don't want to miss out.  They aren't making much use of the Wiimote features, but it's not getting in the way either.  I do wish there was voice acting - games feel amiss without it anymore, but Nintendo seems to want to avoid having ANY of their mainline characters speak (Samus, Mario, Link).  I wish they'd get over it.  The camera controls aren't where I'd want them to be.  There's nothing really wrong with them, it's just that they're not perfect.  The use of the Wiimote is decent, just not as cool as it could've been.  The story seems weaker than it should be, but again it's not bad.

Everything just feels "B"ish to me.  It's all good, but you'd expect it to be great.  If I'm dissapointed it's not because the game isn't fun (it's one of the better games out there, imo), but because I'd expect it to at least be on par with Paper Mario or Metroid Prime, if not RE4. 

[HaemishM]

Why is 8.8 a bad fucking score? I don't get that. Maybe it's because I haven't played "teh awesomenesssssessses" that is the other Zelda games. I'm liking Zelda a lot. I think the one part of the Gamespot review they got wrong was saying "It doesn't take enough advantage of the Wiimote's features." I disagree with that. You swing a sword. You move the Wiimote forward to jump. You aim with the Wiimote. What the fuck more do you want?

My total Zelda experience previous to this was about 1 hour in Wind Waker, and I could never get myself to sit down to it for more than that. Maybe it was the cel-shading, which I liked, but it felt kidsy and I always felt like I had other things I wanted to play more. I'll probably go back and play it through at some point. But if the complaint that it isn't more different from other Zelda games is the biggest problem, take every fucking sequel game you've bought recently and smash it to pieces. The Final Fantasy games? I shit more innovation in the morning. That series has had 2 major innovations in what 12 regular games and umpteen other franchise branches? The 2 being an MMOG and 3d graphics. That's it. Otherwise it's the same angtsy bunch of rent boys emoting while throwing down comets from orbit as special attacks. The story might be strong (for what it is) but don't try to tell me the games are much different because they aren't.

Zelda is Zelda and if it wasn't, the people who love Zelda would get pissed as hell and blame Nintendo. Sure, it might could take a little bit of a chance with the series, but it's a delicate balance. What needs to be considered is whether the game is fun, and it is. If it isn't as fun as other Zeldas, it's still a fun game.

[Yegolev]

I wanted a Wii, but instead I got a cold and sinus infection.  /sadf  The Target sold 40+ units in 30 minutes, too bad I was in no shape to get one.  Or cable it up.  Or play it.

I am pleasantly surprised that the Wii has sold out, some speculating that one million Wii were unloaded on the first day.  But of course I am a Nintendo whore.  The thing that I find intriguing is that so many people of so many types seem to know about the Wii; I assume this is because they saw ads in media that I normally don't intake.

The news about the online capability is disappointing but not unexpected.  I can't think of many things Nintendo has made that could not have used some no-brainer improvements.

FFXII is much more of a monster-bash, however it is a very fun monster bash with pretty CGI.  I am glad, honestly, to not have to wonder what the fuck is going on with a story where someone is a dream of someone else or there are moon monsters or something about the main guy being someone else or finding out that everyone - even the villain - went to school together.  The story is more, uh, strategic?  More about the political movements of kingdoms, kind of like FFT, oddly enough.  I think I like FFIV best for story and characters, but FFXII for everything else.

Ocarina of Time is the standard metric when discussing Zelda... at least since the NES games.  It is worth a play if you have not tried it.

[Litigator]

Many of the Nintendo games are key parts of my childhood. I loved them like siblings. They have not grown up with me. I thought, maybe, Twilight Princess would do that. But the moment Gamespot said what they said, I realized I was kidding myself. Throwing in a new controller does not make a paradigm shift. RE4 on the other hand grew up within a console generation. Short of tightening it, Capcom may have very well created what is the single best way to play a survival horror title. Zelda, at a base level is tight and polished like a Blizzard game. But much like WoW, it offers me positively nothing new. Not in story, gameplay, or anything else. It's Zelda - again. I'm not saying that's a bad thing for most people, especially people who want Zelda again.

But as Litigator said, 2D is Zelda to me. I can go back and get the same experience people are getting now with Twilight Princess. LttP does not feel dated to me. It is timeless.

Having played RE4, it is very fucking hard to go back to the old RE titles. VERY HARD. As I said, RE reinvented itself within  ONE console generation. This is the fourth generation since the SNES came out and we're still playing the exact same Zelda - rendered in 3D! They may as well have recreated LttP in 3D.

I like RE 4, but RE needed to be reinvented because its core gameplay had aged horribly and there were serious structural problems with the game, and with Survival Horror in general. Capcom turned "Survival Horror" into "Horror Shooter" because they couldn't figure out a way to make controlling your character not feel like driving a tank without completely trivializing the game.  The first time they tried, they somehow ended up with "Devil May Cry." Then they went back and made the gorgeous REmake and RE0, where your heroes might find themselves running helplessly in place against a piece of scenery while a skinless gorilla mauled them. Ultimately, they made the scariest game in which the hero could still shoot his way through a mansion full of possessed monks.  Capcom reinvented survival horror because they could not modernize survival horror, and it's hard to go back to old RE because old RE is premised on frustrating controls.

Meanwhile Zelda had already revolutionized online action/adventure controls when Nintendo came up with Z targeting in OoT. It's not like there's a problem with the control. Nintendo characters have always been fun and easy to move around.

Twilight Princess was clearly built as a gamecube game, so, while the Wii Remote is a perfectly capable controller for the game, this is not the game that is going to show off the full capabilities of the device. That comes later. You saw Mario Galaxy at E3.

[Roac]

Why is 8.8 a bad fucking score? I don't get that. Maybe it's because I haven't played "teh awesomenesssssessses" that is the other Zelda games. I'm liking Zelda a lot. I think the one part of the Gamespot review they got wrong was saying "It doesn't take enough advantage of the Wiimote's features." I disagree with that. You swing a sword. You move the Wiimote forward to jump. You aim with the Wiimote. What the fuck more do you want?

I don't think it is a bad score.  IMO, if you get the Wii, you'd better get Zelda or you're a dink.  I do think that RE4, Metroid Prime, and Paper Mario were better.  I also think Zelda is better than the vast majority of games.  But it's not the 10/10 some places are giving it, and I think ther are complaints about the control.  Things to complain about with the Wiimote:


1) The targeting (slingshot, eagle) seem very secondary to the play.  Thus far, the sword is the main thing and it doesn't use targeting.  If there were more things to target or targeting were done more often as part of normal gameplay it wouldn't feel so odd.  There is the farie targeting cursor, and that helps.

2) The camera isn't as easy as I'd have liked.  Specifically, I can't use the targeting curser to pan around seamlessly.  What I would like is for the Wii to ignore the remote if it is pointed away from the TV, scroll quicker if I hold it on the edge, and ignore panning on any jerks that may accompany sword gestures.  Instead, I use analog+Z to spin the camera. 

3) The sword combat seems a bit bland.  If the different moves meant something, maybe.  Right now it just seems to be spin vs everything else, with even the jump attack not doing much different from regular hacks.  The end result is that i just Z target and shake the Wiimote to win.  Even the original Zelda had maneuvering to get the right angle to attack.

1 and 3 may be improved later on, as I'm only an hour or so into it as well.  And there's certainly nothing for Nintendo to be ashamed of in this game, but it isn't above criticism.

[HaemishM]

No game is above criticism. I just think the idea that "It's just another Zelda game" is a bad criticism, because it's retardedly obvious.

[Litigator]

On a related note, I have heard several unrelated people who would probably not lie to me say that, as a result of a translation issue the "Rawk Hawk" character in Paper Mario was named "Rock Cock" until right before the game went gold, and that some reviewers got copies where the character had this name, and he actually said "You're gonna get ROCKED by this COCK," and that this was mentioned in previews or reviews on at least one major site, but was edited at Nintendo's request after it became clear the language had been removed from the release code.

Anyone know if this is true?

[Yegolev]

Also related, reports from Maxconsole are that Freeloader works with the Wii.

[Strazos]

I think far too much is being made of if Zelda is "innovative" or not. Screw that - is it fun and engaging? I played/watched for about an hour of gameplay, and I thought the game was fun and engaging. The wolf-form stuff seems interesting. Link having a mischievous little spirit as a companion is different and cool. Also, from browsing the beginning of the strat guide, there seems to be a lot more to do with the new control scheme further into the game. To me, an 8.8 score is fairly high, though I would have simply went with a nice, rounded 9. But to me, the numerical scores don't really mean shit - is the game fun? That's what matters to me.

On a different note....I was not too thrilled with Red Steel. I only played for about 5 minutes, and I just loaded up a friend's save, but...the controls seemed VERY awkward. Not sure how to fix the problem, whatever it is. One cool thing was that I could hold my Uzi "gangsta-style." Unfortunately, movement and aiming seemed like a huge pain.

[HaemishM]

Red Steel gets better in my opinion. It's going to take a bit to get used to the controls, but I played for over an hour last night and didn't want to stop.

[Roac]

On a different note....I was not too thrilled with Red Steel. I only played for about 5 minutes, and I just loaded up a friend's save, but...the controls seemed VERY awkward. Not sure how to fix the problem, whatever it is. One cool thing was that I could hold my Uzi "gangsta-style." Unfortunately, movement and aiming seemed like a huge pain.

The swordplay is awful.  It's painful to be pushed into these scripted duels, with only two attacks of consequence (attack and block).  However, the gunplay is decent.  The Wiimote does take a bit to get used to and isn't as intuitive as I'd have liked, but that awkwardness you've hit can be overcome without too much effort.  After only a couple of hours I'm doing better at scoring kills with my guns here than I have other shooters with thumbsticks.  It does get better, and as long as you like shooting up Japanese gangsters, fun.

[Strazos]

Yeah, I should have mentioned that you could probably chalk up the experience to "learning curve." If/When I get a Wii of my own, I'll have to give this another shot.

[HaemishM]

I enjoyed the hell out of the swordplay so far in Red Steel. It's what's got me hooked on the game.

[schild]

You're the only person I've heard say this, and I know a lot of people who have played RS.

[Strazos]

I didn't get a chance to play with a sword in the game. I was very disappointed to hear that I don't simply have a sword as another weapon. Instead, you only swordfight in specific instances. Also, I'm told the swordfighting essentially involves randomly waving the Wiimote at the IR Bar. Played a similar game in a Namcozone, and (while the actual mechanics differ from how the Wiimote works) it was a disconnected, unintuitive bore.

I guess I won't be satisfied until I can swordfight how I want to swordfight.

[HaemishM]

You're the only person I've heard say this, and I know a lot of people who have played RS.

This is why I don't listen to other people too much when it comes to picking my games. I was standing up getting a nice lather going during the swordfighting sequences.

[Roac]

I enjoyed the hell out of the swordplay so far in Red Steel. It's what's got me hooked on the game.

?

Seriously?

Swordfighting is nothing more than wait for an attack, parry, and quickly counter.  For the people who can bust through your parry and for the few times they uae a big attack, sidestep.  Wii Sports tennis has more depth (and is more fun).

Edit:  Not trying to spoil your fun or anything, and I get that some people enjoy different things than I do (my wife loves Trauma Center - I won't play it, but I get why it might be appealing).  I just can't wrap my head around why the swordplay in Red Steel could be at all entertaining.

[Sky]

I can't speak for Haem, but some people like to get into things more than just what's necessary. I've seen a lot of games where sneaking is an option, but reviewers will say all you need to do is run and gun through without wasting time sneaking. Some people like sneaking. Some people underestimate the sneakiness (/tuturo).

[OcellotJenkins]

[HaemishM]

OcellotJenkins, you are the man.

I get into the swordfighting. While I'm seated for the run and gun parts, I'm on my feet looking like a complete TOOL for the swordfighting bits. They are fun, visceral entertainment. Maybe they'll get old. I'm not claiming that Red Steel is some deep shooter, but it is good, visceral John Woo style fun. I plan on doing a write up on the Game of Angst, after maybe 3 hours of play. But so far, I'm having a blast with it.

[voodoolily]

We are still having way too much fun making Miis. We made a female downie tonight named, creatively, Downie Sue and a buck-toothed Chinaman name ChingChong. Hong Kong Fooey! Now we have our own baseball team!

[Daydreamer]

Friend Codes anyone?

3829 1782 4059 3887

Mii: OG Brett

[schild]

Yes, I suppose I should make a Friends Code Thread and Sticky It.

[Trippy]

Yes, I suppose I should make a Friends Code Thread and Sticky It.

You do realize if you do that they'll no longer be "Friends" codes but "random person who stumbled upon f13.net can grab them" codes.

[schild]

You have to put the codes in on both sides. Putting them in on just one side doesn't work. Or at least, it's not supposed to...

[Trippy]

You have to put the codes in on both sides. Putting them in on just one side doesn't work. Or at least, it's not supposed to...

Ah, never mind then.

[Kitsune]

My Wii from Amazon arrived today, fired it up, patched it, tossed in Zelda, and off I went.  So far my opinion of the console and the game is very positive.  It's not perfect, but I wasn't expecting perfection, so I didn't have any crushed dreams to sour the impression.  After a few hours of stabbing things in Zelda, people came over, so we switched over to Wii Sports and messed around with it for a while.  It was as shallow as a mud puddle, but very slick and very fun when playing with others, a good demonstration of what the system and controllers can do.  After most of the people left, the rest of us spent a good bit of time messing around with the Mii setup, making our avatars amid snide suggestions from the onlookers.

My call?  8.8.  The fact that the Wii is still missing about half of its online functionality and the lack of anything better than a composite video cable are the only red marks in my opinion thus far.  Seriously, svideo should be considered the entry-level default video now, I haven't used composite in years.  Setup was smooth, the Wii accepted the wavebird controllers without any fuss, the games played well without any glitches, and all of this was accomplished at half the price of the PS3.

And unlike any of the more insanely rabid fanboys out there, I consider 8.8 a perfectly good score.  Definitely a higher score than I'd've given the 360s with all the red rings of death and the PS3s at their atrocious price.  Nintendo wasn't flawless with the Wii, but they showed competence befitting their age and experience in the industry.