Wii Q&A Thread

[schild]

Yes, it is how console launches are. But why did you (and many others, Haemish included), care about what EA is saying? it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. They appeal to the masses. The Joe Six-Packs. The mouthbreathers. To them, hi-def IS innovative.

[CmdrSlack]

It was as weak as Haemish's argument that the Wii breaks the stagnation in gaming. But that's ok, you know what a tater tot is.

Yeah, and I know when you're channeling Comic Book Guy.  Case in point:

Yes, it is how console launches are. But why did you (and many others, Haemish included), care about what EA is saying? it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. They appeal to the masses. The Joe Six-Packs. The mouthbreathers. To them, hi-def IS innovative.

Caring about what EA says is important specifically because they appeal to the masses.  You know, the market that most large corporations try to capture.  They may seem unsophisticated or unwashed to you, but you're a game fanatic who spends all of his money and recreation time on games.  You're not hard to capture.  Hell, you bought the latest Zelda TWICE.  Basically, paying attention to what the guys at EA are saying is important because the mainstream trends are what's fucking up gaming.  Know thy object of pretentious derision and all that.

[schild]

I also got all of my money back for the latest Zelda.

Twice.

You know what I do? I ignore the fucking mainstream. The gaming outlook is a lot brighter that way, and trust me, there's no shortage in niche gaming, not even on the 360.

[CmdrSlack]

I also got all of my money back for the latest Zelda.

Twice.

So, you used to work at the EBStop, right?  Doesn't Ninty still get the dough for both purchases?  How does the store process that stuff?  I know that on the lawyer side, there'd be all kinds of numbers tweaking on returns, but when it's a game done in-house, I doubt there's too much hassle for them.

You know what I do? I ignore the fucking mainstream. The gaming outlook is a lot brighter that way, and trust me, there's no shortage in niche gaming, not even on the 360.

I agree with you on that.  Most mainstream games DO suck.  If I had the time to invest in a new system right now, I'd be getting a 360 and a Wii (the price point on the PS3 is shit, IMO).  I do think that it's important to at least track the trends in the mainstream -- that's where the majority of investment dough seems to be going.  Heck, there's yet another flash game site up according to Raph...that shit is about as mainstream as you can get.  Zillions of office workers and housewives can't be wrong. 

Not every game has to be Okami or Katamari, but if they were, then the standout titles would just be titles.   

[stray]

I'd consider God of War or Resident Evil 4 mainstream titles, but they're pretty damn great games anyways.

Hell, even EA has a few from the past several years (like it or not): Sims, Burnout, Battlefield, SSX...

You don't have to look in the alleyways to find something interesting.

[CmdrSlack]

Hmm.  I bet I could find a used copy of SSX Tricky somewhere....that'd be good for goofing off between tedious projects.

[HaemishM]

Don't care about Resident Evil, Killer 7, Okami, or Shadow of the Colossus?

Killer 7 sucked monkey balls through a straw. Resident Evil 4 I care about, the rest not so much. The Resident Evil's I've played before 4 always had really awkward controls that made me feel like I was fighting the controller and the game instead of the stuff inside the game.  The other two I haven't played because I don't own a PS2. Not sure I'd play Okami, but wouldn't mind Shadow.

I never said there couldn't be innovative games, just that there really aren't that many and most of what we get with the controllers we had before the Wii is the same game in the same controllers with new skins. The Wii forces devs to think differently and out of that will be new types of games, as well as old types of games played in completely new ways (such as the sword fighting in Red Steel and the Madden controls).

EDIT: Oh and the Wii doesn't charge me a premium for being a gamer. Yes, no matter how many pixels a Blu-Ray can push, $600 for a console (hell, even $400) is a premium to me.

[schild]

Oh, the Wii very much charges you a premium. A gamecube was $50 used. You just paid $200 for a new controller and casing [on a GC]. If every Wii owner recognized that, I'd have much left beef with the supporters of the system.

[MrHat]

My kingdom for a wiimote.

[Azazel]

Oh, the Wii very much charges you a premium. A gamecube was $50 used. You just paid $200 for a new controller and casing [on a GC]. If every Wii owner recognized that, I'd have much left beef with the supporters of the system.

Used? Who buys used consoles? Especially here. And even if I did, can I play Wii sports on it? Oh that's right. It's a straw man.

And as has already been stated, the 360 has a year on the other two. Obviously it's going to have more stuff both out and upcoming. If you're going to be a day one purchaser of the new shiny thats fine but then when you piss and moan while comparing the dearth of software on a 2-month old console compared to a 14-month old one you just come off as a whiner with no perspective.

[schild]

What? I was complaining about the lack of Gamecube games from day 1 up until it's death.

[Azazel]

Sorry, I thought this particular thread was about the Wii (and PS3/360)?

[schild]

You're calling it a straw man when I REALLY think that the Nintendo library is going to be just as bad/small/inadequate this time around.

[stray]

It's a straw man.

The hardware is not worth $250 bucks. Perhaps there were significant r&d costs for Nintendo in creating the wiimote and system software, but enough to make a $150 difference to the consumer (a new GC can be had for less than a hundred)? I doubt it.

[Yegolev]

I don't understand how someone could think Killer7 was a turd, unless they were expecting a FPS or something.  I guess that it wasn't well-liked because it's just so fucking weird, but I liked that.  As a shooter goes, it wasn't super-duper from a mechanical perspective (GC controller lolz), but it brought plenty of aesthetic weight with it.  I mean visually, audially and weirdally.

Geist, now that was a turd.  Opinions, keke.

[stray]

Killer 7 : not on par with other Capcom titles (though I didn't finish all of it...yet), but better than ummm....

No, nevermind. Not going to be a dick.

[Yegolev]

Aw, come on.

[stray]

Ok...Better than Madden and Fable then?

I'd say Red Steel, but I haven't played it.

But I'd probably be right anyways.


See? I'm a dick.

[Azazel]

It's a straw man.

The hardware is not worth $250 bucks. Perhaps there were significant r&d costs for Nintendo in creating the wiimote and system software, but enough to make a $150 difference to the consumer (a new GC can be had for less than a hundred)? I doubt it.

Not worth it to you perhaps, but all this shit we buy is based off of percieved value. You love to go on about your PS3  , while to me the system is an overpriced turd. Again, we have a difference of percieved value. Clearly the system is worth the $250 to a couple of million others though.

And as I said to schild, tell me when I can play Wii bowling on my standard cube, until then the hardware price comparison to a fucking (used or new) gamecube whining is a straw man, and not a particularly good one.

And Killer 7 was shit.
But yeah, better than Red Steel. Not that that says much.

[stray]

No. Technically speaking, it's an oc'ed GC with a cool controller. I'm strictly talking about hardware costs. Nintendo is the only one probably making a profit right out of the gates. It's "premium" defined.

I never said I wouldn't buy a Wii at $250 though. I'm still a sucker, despite knowing that Nintendo would be fine selling it at at least $50 less.

[EDIT] Besides, I only bring this up when someone gets all fussy about the PS3 price, and tries to compare the Wii with it. I wouldn't mention it otherwise.

[Azazel]

I'm not sure why we're arguing then. Wait, because Ninty is making money on the hardware?

Oh, we're having a semantic argument over different meanings of "premium".
As in overall price when compared to a PS360 vs Wii production costs not being that much more than a Cube and making a profit instead of a "loss".

Both are right, both meanings work, let's not be wankers about it and move onto some meaningful content.


edit - my "strawman" argument to schild applied just as much to him complaining that the Wii and PS3 have few/no games worth playing when compared to the 360. It may be true right now, but context (time since release) is key to that comparison right now, else we may as well be saying that the 360 has only a handful of good games compared to the PS2. Get back to that argument around Christmas, or in 18 months.

[stray]

I'm not sure why we're arguing then. Wait, because Ninty is making money on the hardware?

I'm not even trying to argue with you really. Haemish started this! 

Before we move on though (and yeah, I agree that we should), I agree that the PS3 is expensive. It's just that you are getting more than what you pay for with it.

Now.... Whether you even want any of those things that jack up the price is another story. Just say it's not the console for you then. But wanting those things, and expecting the console to be significantly cheaper on top of that is silly and unrealistic.

[HaemishM]

If we must be pissy about the Wii, it's a souped-up Gamecube with Internet connectivity, better INNOVATIVE controls, built-in storage and some cool Ninty-esque chotskis like the News and Weather Channels. Yes, I use them both. It isn't just a Cube with motion-sensing controls. It ain't perfect, but it's a start. Oh and Virtual Console games, which are more fun than they should be.

Killer 7 was shit. Shitty shit shit shit disguising itself as some kind of avant garde pretentious bullshit. Great concept, shity execution. I mean shitty execution. Any game with that great a concept that makes me quit it in disgust less than 1 hour in sucks monkey balls. It didn't reward thought, it bludgeoned you with arcane controls. It was one of the worst games I've played. Shadowbane on Sb.exe was more fun.

Both Madden and Fable were better than Killer 7.

[Yegolev]

I don't want to speak for Schild, but I sorta agree with his prediction that the Wii will have a shit library for its lifespan, which is where the Cube comparisons come from.  My own prognostication is that the Wii will have a shit library for hardcore gamers while having a fantastic library for the people who currently get together on the weekends to drink and play Cranium or Taboo.

I don't think there's any doubt that N is making a profit on each Wii, from a manufacturing standpoint at any rate.  Financial statements appear to support that, too, but it's early.

[Big Gulp]

I'm fighting for the sake of it. Don't care about tater tots. It's a fun subject. God forbid I argue about games on F13. 

Look, Haemish is just being a pissed off little toddler because he can't afford the shiny.  Rather than say, "Damn, there's some stuff out there I wish I could get my hands on", he's decided to adopt the extremely unique and EDGY^TM stance that games have stagnated.

It's poverty-based sour grapes, and you can ignore it if you like.

[Margalis]

Console makers never release accurate numbers on console manufacturing costs vs. revenue. Anyway this thread is moving into lame Mac vs. PC territory.

In other news looks like I'm camping out Target on sunday.

As far as cost goes, I can easily afford a 360 and a PS3. I just don't want either one right now. I'm more interested in old PS2 and GC games than new games at this point. The Wii will allow me to catch up on some back catalog at a reasonable price and play a couple interesting new games. All I would use a PS3 for at this point would be as a PS2, which I already own.

I've used my xbox for about 10 hours total (if even that) so I'm not looking to get a 360 for a while.

[Yegolev]

In other news looks like I'm camping out Target on sunday.

Me too.  Dammit.

[CmdrSlack]

I've used my xbox for about 10 hours total (if even that) so I'm not looking to get a 360 for a while.

If they ever get around to making KOTOR 3 or Jade Empire 2, and they're Xbox exclusives, then I may get a 360.  Heck, I've been looking for games to buy FOR my Xbox to justify having the dusty thing.  I bought it to play KOTOR...I think I have a total of like four or five Xbox games.

[schild]

The Xbox 360 and the Xbox are entirely different animals. The Xbox 360 is the new PS2. The PS3 is the new Xbox.

Deal with it.

[Margalis]

It is looking that way, but at this point the 360 doesn't have much I want to play. In all likelyhood I will get one before a PS3 though.

I don't have much interest in realistic driving games, sports games or shooters, so the 360 isn't looking too hot right now. Dead Rising is the only game I'm somewhat interested.

PS2 will probably have the best library in 2007...God of War 2 looks better than any game on the next-gen horizon.

[stray]

Oh c'mon.

Though I was poking fun at Haemish, the Wii is not looking like the GC. Yet. Nor is the 360 the new PS2. Yet. Both the Wii and PS3 just freakin' launched! The 360 has one bonafide hit, and a handful of quality titles, but that's after a year of release. Pretty much as it should be.

And Margalis is right, for the time being, 2007 still belongs to the PS2. The PS2 is the new PS2.

[Velorath]

The 360 has one bonafide hit, and a handful of quality titles, but that's after a year of release. Pretty much as it should be.

Dead or Alive 4, Perfect Dark Zero, Dead Rising and Lost Planet have all sold 1 million copies so far, making them hits by most peoples' standards as far as video games go (unless you want to argue that review scores should be used to judge what is a hit and what isn't).

[schild]

Stray, I know what companies are going to the 360 from the PS2. I know what companies haven't signed on to the Wii yet. or at least the ones I've cared to investigate, call, or email. And you know what, don't discount what I said. It doesn't matter when that shit launched.

[stray]

The 360 has one bonafide hit, and a handful of quality titles, but that's after a year of release. Pretty much as it should be.

Dead or Alive 4, Perfect Dark Zero, Dead Rising and Lost Planet have all sold 1 million copies so far, making them hits by most peoples' standards as far as video games go (unless you want to argue that review scores should be used to judge what is a hit and what isn't).

Whatever. Didn't realize they've gotten to that point (besides, I'm the last person on this site who'd want to take credit away from Capcom or Team Ninja...So good for them).

Anyways, the point is that those two other systems haven't even been around long enough to release much outside their launch titles. It's just a bit too early for circle jerking yet. So tuck your shirts in and wait, say, another three years.

Sega had the jump not just once, but two times before (and the love of the press to boot). Look where they went. You never know what could happen.

[Velorath]

Anyways, the point is that those two other systems haven't even been around long enough to release much outside their launch titles. It's just a bit too early for circle jerking yet. So tuck your shirts in and wait, say, another three years.

Bah, fuck all that wait and see shit.  If we wanted to just wait and see who comes out on top you wouldn't have bought a PS3, I wouldn't have bought a 360, Haem wouldn't have bought a Wii, etc... 

One thing most of us can agree on though is that the PS2 is still going strong in 2007.  With over 110 million units shipped worldwide (from the looks of it 10 million or so sold in 2006 alone), there's a lot of incentive for developers to continue working on PS2 titles.  Enough possibly for quality games to be released well into 2008.