Wii Q&A Thread

[Roac]

I disagree with what you said. The Wii is better for shooters than any of the other consoles out there, because the Wiimote is a better device for actually aiming a gun. Just because some people get pissy about COD and Red Steel not having HD graphics does not mean they aren't good games, because they are very good games.

I really can't understand the Red Steel love.  I don't dislike moderate graphics - I helped run a MUD for years and still dust off MoO every so often.  What it has is new gameplay because of the Wiimote, but other than that the game is extremely shallow.  I think if you stacked the gameplay alone against Gears of War for example, you're going to see it come up short.  Red Steel, by itself, is mediocre.

The catch: the Wiimote makes some games much more fun.  It is PEFECT for shooter games.  Like, spot on.  The only thing Nintendo could do to make it better is to release the gun clip-on, and have games allow you to recenter your targeting cursor.  Reason for the latter is because as of right now, the Wii uses the IR bar as it's centerline without knowledge of the screen size, so you can't actually aim at a target.  That's fine when you hold just the Wiimote because you don't have anything to aim with, so it's more like shooting a pistol from the hip.  Give me the gun clip and calibration, and you can remove the targetting pointer.  Voila, Duck Hunt.  Or a very realistic Resident Evil.

Ooh, cool thought.  Because RE (and a few other shooters, like Clancy games) don't really allow for circle strafing, you could load all the camera and motion controls on the nunchuck.  Thumbstick moves you, c+thumbstick pans camera, flick left/right rotates camera by 90, flick up reloads, flick down activates items.  Leroi (or whoever) holds the gun up whenever you do - no need to press/hold A.  No targetting cursor - you aim on your own.  You can't move+turn or run+gun easily, but again, you don't really do that in this game and this alleviates the need to keep the gun held up and pointed at the screen all the time.  That's still leaving the Wiimote buttons and motion sensing mostly free (flick left/right for knife attacks, +/- for menu selections, etc).  For that matter, if you have Z targetting (Metroid, etc) you can still get your run+gun.

[Ezdaar]

Red Steel is fun so far. The controls are terrible though after having played CoD3. I hear Farcry also has really nice controls but the game itself got terrible reviews so I haven't checked it out. If future shooters are more like CoD3 controls and less like Red Steel controls I think it will be a fantastic shooter platform.

[Roac]

Red Steel is fun so far. The controls are terrible though after having played CoD3. I hear Farcry also has really nice controls but the game itself got terrible reviews so I haven't checked it out. If future shooters are more like CoD3 controls and less like Red Steel controls I think it will be a fantastic shooter platform.

Farcry is ok.  I didn't play Instincts, but the story apparently picks up from there, so it's a bit confusing to me as there's no introduction.  Not that it matters, as the story is very unsophisticated anyway.  The AI is very bad, and sniper fights can be irritating (I'm stuck on one at the moment).  The missions are interesting, and the level layouts are designed good, especially considering the heavy use of outdoor settings.  The predator settings add a little extra something, but to be honest I don't use it at all except for healing.  I would say the control schemes are comperable, although the Farcry aiming doesn't seem to be as precise (ironically, the shooting game in Rabbids feels the most natural so far). 

I'm glad to hear that COD3 has a better scheme than Red Steel - my only complaint with it is that the camera went berserk if you scrolled off the edge.  Farcry handles that better (it realizes you're not doing something right, and quits trying).  I think Red Steel has better controls except for that. 

[HaemishM]

I disagree with what you said. The Wii is better for shooters than any of the other consoles out there, because the Wiimote is a better device for actually aiming a gun. Just because some people get pissy about COD and Red Steel not having HD graphics does not mean they aren't good games, because they are very good games.

I really can't understand the Red Steel love.  I don't dislike moderate graphics - I helped run a MUD for years and still dust off MoO every so often.  What it has is new gameplay because of the Wiimote, but other than that the game is extremely shallow.  I think if you stacked the gameplay alone against Gears of War for example, you're going to see it come up short.  Red Steel, by itself, is mediocre.

I had more fun and was more involved playing Red Steel than I've been on many games in a long time. Sword fights had me on my feet, swinging like a tool. It was just that good to me. I say that as someone who has enough experience to recognize a game's flaws, and even with the flaws, I still loved it. I hope they make a sequel that's longer, a bit more freeform and with more swordfighting. As much as I liked Call of Duty 3, I liked Red Steel even better despite the fact that RS was a more flawed game.

I'm sure Gears of War is a great game, but Red Steel holds a special place in my heart. To me, that game showed what the Wii could do with games I like just as much as Wii Sports showing what sports games could be like on the system.

[Roac]

Ok, I get what you mean now.  Fair enough.

[Yegolev]

It is clear that Haemish's heart grew three sizes that day... the day he bought a Wii down in Wii-ville.  Where I am, someone else took even the last can of Wii-hash.

Rock on, H.

[DevilsAdvocate]

Yes, I want purpose shaped controllers. Or VERY HIGH quality parts to mimic the experience and attach to the current controller. Also, one of my biggest gripes with the system was tethering everything to the remote. That shit drives me nuts.

I saw this in the store the other day. You may want to think about purchasing these controllers. I believe the company that makes them is called Core Gamer.

Wii Sports Pack

[schild]

Already own that. That's what I was talking about earlier. The Wii Sports pack of attachments.

[HaemishM]

It is clear that Haemish's heart grew three sizes that day... the day he bought a Wii down in Wii-ville.  Where I am, someone else took even the last can of Wii-hash.

Rock on, H.

The Wii was about the most encouraging thing I've seen in the video game industry since The Movies. It has deadened the empty socket where my MMOG love still weeps.

[Kageru]

I agree the wiimote is, potentially, a fantastic interface to a shooter. Certainly better than trying to aim with those awful thumbsticks on some of the other consoles. However shooters tend to emphasize "teh shiny" graphics, long view distances and detailed environments... I'm not sure wii actually has the grunt to be the console of choice for heavy shooters.

That doesn't mean there won't be wii shooters though, those who have bought a wii will still want games of that type.

[stray]

It has deadened the empty socket where my MMOG love still weeps.

Not to take anything from the Wii or Movies (I like them both), but c'mon....Pop Cap games could accomplish that feat too.

[stray]

Wait. That needs more than one post.

It's like people who have been buying the Wii have been living in a hole or something. I just got done responding to a guy on a blog who played too many mmo's, and thought the Wii was some revolutionary harkening back to the "good ole days" of gaming.

No, damnit. It was you. Not the games.

Same goes for all of these baby boomers, newspaper journalists, soccer moms, and 30 somethings who think gaming has all of the sudden made a comeback or something.

They've always been here, on any given platform, waiting for your time.

[EDIT] Another thing: "The 360 and PS3 are just about graphics. The Wii is about fun!!"

Fucking retarded.

[EDIT] Not really directed at you Haem, but it kind of reminds me of what I'm hearing elsewhere. I had to bring it up...

[Margalis]

Stray, no offense but I think you are just plain wrong here.

A couple of my friends GFs won't touch any games but they play Wii sports. For one thing it is pretty free of typical gaming conventions - the controls are easy to learn (but hard to master), it isn't about elaborate tech, insane aiming ability, or anything like that.

Games have built up a fairly large vocabularly and continuity. If you've never played an FPS before and FPS is probably totally overwhelming. Same with a 3D fighting game. I know how to play Tekken fairly well but that's because I started at #2. Try explaining sidesteps, crushes, launches, the ground game, counter-hits, throw escapes, chickens, etc to a new player.

The control in Wii sports is easy to grasp and doesn't require any prior knowledge. If you have some vague understanding of how tennis works you can play tennis immediately.

It is also far more active than sitting on your ass. There are no loading screens, no CGI things, no violence or women in chain-mail bikinis. It doesn't take an hour to get started. Etc.

I think the 360 is largely about graphics, and MS and its devs think so as well - they've said as much. I've read interviews with the EA guys where they are asked what innovation they are bringing to the table and their answer is seriously "higher resolution."

There have always been games like Tetris, Katamari, etc, that are simple and fun - except that I don't really like those sorts of games. In the past it was I'll play my hardcore Tekken and you play your casual Poyu Poyu or whatever...now I can play Wii sports alongside someone who would typically play puzzle games and we can both have fun.

Standing up, swinging your arms around and acting like a goofball is just a good time. It is a different experience.

Note that I am talking about Wii Sports here specifically - Zelda isn't really a different experience. It's Zelda, which is fine but your grandma probably isn't going to play it.

Wii Sports has a curiosity factor, and also a "hey, I think I could do that!" factor that your Zelda or GOW doesn't have.

[schild]

You just used EA as an example to make people in the industry look like non-innovative turds.

That's like bringing up nazis in a politics thread.

[stray]

I don't deny that graphics are a big part of Sony and MS (of course they are), but that doesn't mean they aren't fun. One can still be both, contrary to what some LA Times schmuck (or some Youtube video heh) tells everyone.

I don't deny that the XBox in particular seems to overly target the teenage American male crowd either (moreso than Sony). They've tapped that ass like there's no tomorrow....But yet, it's still a fun gaming machine when it comes down to it. All of these systems, and the ones before them....And the ones before them....Have all been fun. The Wii hasn't "brought back gaming". It's great and all, but fuck that noise.

[EDIT] As for girlfiends, I spent Sunday cooking and hanging out with some friends and some girls....Guess what we played...

EA Games lol (Need for Speed and Fight Night). The non gamer girls were having a good enough time (though I admit, they probably would like Wii Sports more).

[Velorath]

I don't deny that graphics are a big part of Sony and MS (of course they are), but that doesn't mean they aren't fun. One can still be both, contrary to what some LA Times schmuck tells everyone.

I don't deny that the XBox in particular seems to overly target the teenage American male crowd either (moreso than Sony). They've tapped that ass like there's no tomorrow....But yet, it's still a fun gaming machine when it comes down to it. All of these systems, and the ones before them....And the ones before them....Have all been fun. The Wii hasn't "brought back gaming". It's great and all, but fuck that noise.

I don't think Margalis was saying that the Wii brought back gaming so much as it opened it back up to the more casual audience once again by simplifying things a little.  In a way, Wii Sports in particular is like a step back in the direction of Pong.  It's fun and simple, and packing it in with the Wii means that out of the box you've got something that appeals to a wide audience.  The industry has been so focused on building on what's been done previously that there aren't a lot of "entry level" games out there for people who haven't spent most of their lives playing video games (I'm sure the Gameboy and the DS have had quite a few but not everyone likes portables).

[Margalis]

Yes, you said it better than I did Velorath.

My key point is that Wii Sports is fun for casual and hardcore gamers at the same time, which I see as very rare. There are casual games. Someone mentioned PopCap games for example. But I don't play PopCap games at all, or The Sims, or whatever else casual players play.

There are very few games that cast a very broad net. PacMan was one. Street Fighter was another, at least at first. (I saw kids, girls and truckers playing SF2 until people started getting good at it and scared them off) I see Wii Sports as one of those rare games that isn't a "casual game" or a hardcore game, it's just a game people like to play, and a variety of people can have fun playing it together.

---

I really look forward to Wii sports games with some more depth. Now I realize that as depth increases casual players will drop off somewhat. It would probably be a good idea to have simpler and more advanced control options, for example in baseball let hardcore players make the position of the bat really matter but have an option for the batting to be solely timing-based.

[Roac]

Stray, Margalis is right.  At least within my family/circle of friends (anecdotal, I know), it's not like gaming is a mystery to anyone.  Least of all my wife of all people, who has blessedly put up with my strange hours and addiction for years now.  And it's not for lack of trying that she doesn't play; when we were first married she gave most everything I showed her at least one go.  But she was uninterested.  Games that I could sink hours into if I let myself she couldn't tolerate for more than a few minutes.  I can appreciate that; I don't care to do the Martha Stewart craft stuff she likes.

But she loves the Nintendo.  As in, she won't stop talking about it if she gets started.  She puts Haemish's fanboism to shame, to the point that she comes to me telling me about this or that feature she uncovered, and I think somewhere in there I've lost some geek cred as a result.  It isn't a "comeback", it's that there is finally a product that clicks with her wants as a consumer. 

Nor is it just because Wii Sports is "simple" that she likes it.  Her favorite game is Trauma Center, which if you've seen it, requires (at least as you progress) quick thinking and steady aim.  I don't know that it's as hard as other games, but it's not simple.  When she looks at the 360, PS3 and Wii it really IS a difference of the 360/PS3 being "all about graphics" and the Wii being "all about fun".  She doesn't find anything that the other two are offering as being fun.

Now, I would.  If anyone is buying, I'm sure as hell not going to turn my nose up at either system, and I would like to get a 360 at some point (or a PS3 if price and games change for the better).  The graphics ARE nice and I'd love to see Gears of War, Bioshock, or Fall of Man.  But don't even try to explain why these games might be fun for you or me to someone like my wife.  She's uninterested.  And for my part, there are plenty of titles on or comming to the Wii that are fun, that I want to play, and that will take enough of my time that I don't really need another system.

[Sky]

Do you really want your wives into gaming? "Honey, my turn to play. I know you're about to kill the foozle, but we agreeeed!" I like that my girlfriend picks up a book or watches while I game. One gaming habit in the house is expensive enough.

[Roac]

Do you really want your wives into gaming? "Honey, my turn to play. I know you're about to kill the foozle, but we agreeeed!" I like that my girlfriend picks up a book or watches while I game. One gaming habit in the house is expensive enough.

I do yes, because when she's in the mood to play a game at the same time I am, it means we play a 2p game.

[HaemishM]

It has deadened the empty socket where my MMOG love still weeps.

Not to take anything from the Wii or Movies (I like them both), but c'mon....Pop Cap games could accomplish that feat too.

Yeah, I've not played any PopCap games. And I've been playing fun stuff on my X-Box for years.

But it's been the SAME stuff. New baseball game. New soccer game. Jade Empire (refried kungfu NWN/KotOR). And its' been with the same controller I've been playing with since the PS1 essentially. It isn't that good games can't be made with that interface, it's that I want NEW interfaces, and the 360 and PS3 don't do that. They put new shiney on the same interface. That's fine and all, but don't piss on my head and tell me it's next generation rain. It's not, it's previous generation with more shiney.

The Wii and Wiimote is NOT previous generation where it counts, in the controls. And while the launch lineup is previous generation mostly, it's got some really cool innovative takes on those previous generation ideas. Red Steel's swordfighting. Madden's tossing the ball. The Zelda swing. Those are innovations, whether Cheeto-dust encrusted "hardcore" gamers think they are gimmicky or not. A year from now, there'll be some really ingenuous uses of those controllers that wouldn't be possible in ten years with the current controllers.

Also, I finally got around to downloading some Virtual Console games last night, Street Fighter 2 (for me) and Super Mario Bros. for the wife. Painless, easy and pretty damn good emulations of the originals.

[HaemishM]

Do you really want your wives into gaming? "Honey, my turn to play. I know you're about to kill the foozle, but we agreeeed!" I like that my girlfriend picks up a book or watches while I game. One gaming habit in the house is expensive enough.

I don't have a choice, and I wouldn't want it any other way. If nothing else, we can always talk about gaming if a lull in the conversation arises. And she understands why I want to spend hours playing games even if she doesn't want to play that particular game.

[Yegolev]

Do you really want your wives into gaming?

It's a two-edged sword, indeed.  I have enough game machinery that there would be no way she could monopolize it, but then I'd have to play games with her all the time instead of someone else from time to time.  I probably would not mind us playing WoW together, but not EVE.  As it is, I play things so she can watch; right now this is Bully.  It's great sometimes, but sometimes I want to play other things.  Married life, keke.

[HaemishM]

Had my first Wii lockup last night. Playing a game of Madden in franchise mode, getting my ass kicked by the Cardinals of all teams (I'm the Packers) in the 4th quarter and the game does a hard lock. I can't even reset the system, though somehow I can eject the disc. Ended up having to pull the power plug and restart the system.

Glad to know EA's typical QA mastery is not limited to just one platform. They are equal opportunity fuckups.

[Roac]

It's the Wii.  Happened to me on a game of Farcry.

[Margalis]

My friend's Wii crashed, it just froze and made a loud buzzing sound as did the controller as it vibrated constantly.

But then the same thing happened with his GameCube.

He had just gotten a new TV, seems like some sort of weird compatibility issue, like the TV recieved a messed-up signal and went haywire or something...strange. I don't really understand how that would make the Wiimote rumble but maybe it started rumbling then the crash occured so it didn't stop.

[HaemishM]

I just chalked it up to a hard lock like I see on the PC sometimes. Happened to my X-Box at times as well.

[Alkiera]

Do you really want your wives into gaming? "Honey, my turn to play. I know you're about to kill the foozle, but we agreeeed!" I like that my girlfriend picks up a book or watches while I game. One gaming habit in the house is expensive enough.

Wife and I met in college, both in technical programs.  We both game, but generally enjoy different stuff.  I play more RPGs and action titles, and she enjoys RTS and TBS games much more than I do, and is much better at them than I.  She understands the late nights where I've lost time gaming, tho, she does the same thing herself with Master of Magic or Ages of Empires, or lately, Dawn of War.

It's to the point where she can keep up in conversations about EQ with my RL gaming friends, 'cause she's heard us talk about it so much, even though she's never played it.  She has played a bit of CoH, but none of the other MMOs really interested her...  The monthly fees for a game really turn her off.

--
Alkiera

[Azazel]

Yes, I want purpose shaped controllers. Or VERY HIGH quality parts to mimic the experience and attach to the current controller. Also, one of my biggest gripes with the system was tethering everything to the remote. That shit drives me nuts.

You're far too smart and aware of, you know, reality to make this kind of statement, so I can only assume you're making it as a Nintendo-Hate shit-stir. There's a light gun adaptor coming soon anyway.

http://www.mywii.com.au/NewsDetail.aspx?id=171

The thing that I expect will irritate the shit out of me with the Wii is basically the same thing as what irritates the shit out of me about the DS, and this is also one of schild's gripes on Zelda: the shoehorning of Wiimoteness into every game.  On the DS, there are many games that just don't need the stylus but force it in there because of some Nintendo mandate (I assume).  Dawn of Sorrow, for example, is disqualified from challenging Symphony of the Night simply because it forces me to use the stylus in a boss fight.  No, it's not much and only a little inconvenient but on principle I disagree with shoehorning in some stylus just because it's fucking there.

I agree with you, and I'm just going to flat-out not buy anything that fits that category. If I only end up with a half-dozen games for the console's entire life, then so be it. Doesn't worry me. I think I only have about 10-15ish gamecube games, and 5 of those must be various iterations of Mario Party.

My key point is that Wii Sports is fun for casual and hardcore gamers at the same time, which I see as very rare.

There are very few games that cast a very broad net. PacMan was one. Street Fighter was another, at least at first. (I saw kids, girls and truckers playing SF2 until people started getting good at it and scared them off) I see Wii Sports as one of those rare games that isn't a "casual game" or a hardcore game, it's just a game people like to play, and a variety of people can have fun playing it together.

Very true. My sister, who is 42 years old and is anything but a gamer and her boyfriend have been around a couple of times, and they both absolutely love the bowling game. Predictably, he also really liked the boxing game. These people are not gamers in any sense of the term, I don't think my sister has played a video game since those "7-games-in-one" consoles featuring 7 variations of pong that my brother has when I was a kid. but they've decided to buy a Wii after bowling here.

Do you really want your wives into gaming? "Honey, my turn to play. I know you're about to kill the foozle, but we agreeeed!" I like that my girlfriend picks up a book or watches while I game. One gaming habit in the house is expensive enough.

My wife is sitting at my side, busily catassing her way to her Mageblade in Alterac Valley. Since my brother died, her taking enough pity on me to play MMOGs with me has been one of the few things to keep me semi-sane. The fact that she's enjoying it and enjoys playing with me stops me from feeling guilty and is great that we have another thing to share. She's never been a gamer either, but she enjoys bowling with me, too.

I had more fun and was more involved playing Red Steel than I've been on many games in a long time. Sword fights had me on my feet, swinging like a tool. It was just that good to me. I say that as someone who has enough experience to recognize a game's flaws, and even with the flaws, I still loved it. I hope they make a sequel that's longer, a bit more freeform and with more swordfighting. As much as I liked Call of Duty 3, I liked Red Steel even better despite the fact that RS was a more flawed game.

I hated CoD3 and Red Steel. I found the controls to be awkward and just painful. I was really hoping for a lot more fun, but I found the controls to just be far too busy. That's me, of course, and I've never been a fan of console shooters since I got a PC and became a WASD gamer. Red Steel I found marginally less painful than CoD, and I wanted to experience the swordfights you were talking about in these threads, but it suffered from both atrocious and long JRPG-style story set up and also not Getting to the Fucking Monkey.

Instead, I got pissed off with it's shitty controls long before the game offered me a sword. So fuck that game. Bring on the Star Wars game with lightsabers or the Bushido Blade which wont make me waste time with all the rest of the bullshit.

I may think they look like arse (compared to what I'm used to on the PC) and eye-hurtingly low res and muddy, but it was the control that caused me to hate them, not the graphics. The shooting bits in Rayman, on the other hand, being on rails, are quite fun, as I'm able to concentrate on shooting, light-gun style instead of fighting the shitty movement controls.

[Velorath]

My brain hurts after trying to watch you carry on 5 different conversations in one post.

[Azazel]

My brain hurts after trying to watch you carry on 5 different conversations in one post.

Thougt I'd do that instead of posting five times on the one page. One or two can be olay, but chain-posting five times would just be wanky. 

[WindupAtheist]

Somehow I think the fact that the "Wii Q&A thread" is over twice as long as the "PS3 Q&A thread" is telling in and of itself.

[Velorath]

Somehow I think the fact that the "Wii Q&A thread" is over twice as long as the "PS3 Q&A thread" is telling in and of itself.

And yet a thread on SWG has everything else beat, so I'm not sure what this tells us.

[Kageru]

Having had access to a Xbox, fully loaded with various games, over the course of a weekend I have developed a fully fledged hate for playing FPS with two thumbsticks. Given how muddy and blurry the graphics are trying to do precision aiming with the wildly insensitive little stub is maddening. And it's obvious the game makers know this, as most of the games hide the fact under extremely generous hit boxes or full on auto aiming (eg. various lock-on systems).

There's only two ways I'll FPS, mouse and wii-mote.

[squirrel]

Given how muddy and blurry the graphics are trying to do precision aiming with the wildly insensitive little stub is maddening.

Given this quote I'm assuming you played on the Xbox v1 not the 360. I think you'd find the experience on a PS3 or 360 much improved (much better gfx, better controllers) although still inferior to mouse and keyboard.