Mists of Pandaria

[Tannhauser]

  Talent changes again and again.  Pokemon pets and dramatic class changes again.  They make Cataclysm for 'a more directed and focused experience' now they want to go back to multiple quest hubs.  Change, change, change.  Change it all, change everything, throw panda shit on the wall and see if it sticks.  

I don't know why I'm so grumpy about this xpac, I think it's because I remember WoW before Cata.

[Nevermore]

I'm not seeing druid as completely spec driven. There are are at least 2 good choices at each tier for any spec, and 3 at several, tier 6 is the only one where I think there's a cookie cutter choice but it is more of a PVP vs. PVE one than a spec based one.

Tier 1: I can see any spec wanting any of these 3. The first is a passive speed boost in ALL forms, the second is a get out of jail card for anyone, the third is a snare break. All are useful to anyone.
Tier 2: The first one isn't very sexy for the 2 feral specs outside of pvp, but good for either caster and good for the ferals in pvp. The second one is good for anyone, so is the 3rd.
Tier 3: First one good for anyone but non-pvp resto. Second one is an AE root, anyone can find a use for that, but you have to shift out so perhaps less exciting for the ferals. Third is any-form typhoon.
Tier 4: We can't see the full tooltip for these and we don't know what the spec-specific trees do, but it appears all choices are or could be viable for all specs.
Tier 5: AE disorient, good for anyone. AE pull-in-deathgrip thing, probably only bears want. DAOC grapple, anyone can find a use for that (and might be OP and go away IMO.)
Tier 6: A thing that lets you emergency fill another role, the weird stacking dps buff, and the old pvp standby of shifting breaking roots but with healing piled on top. This is the least exciting tier, but we can't see the whole tooltip for the emergency role switching one yet to know if it will draw people away from disentanglement, which I see almost everyone taking.

Don't make me do this for every class. ><

EDIT: Also remember we are not seeing the whole puzzle here, without knowing what abilities are now core for everyone and what are spec-only we can't make any calls about 'oh they ruined what made spec X feel unique' etc.

I'm not going to point by point debate stuff that's likely to change anyway.  Especially since I'm not happy at all that they're splitting feral into two separate specs.  Feral was the last bastion of anything resembling a hybrid in WoW.

[Ingmar]

Game design truth: actual hybrids that can fill 2 roles simultaneously are always, always shitty. And it pains my thane soul to say it. Dual spec is the future.

[Nevermore]

Funny, I can perform both tanking and dps quite well currently.

[Rokal]

They actually have a lot of hyrid-y stuff in the new talent system for druids. There's obvious stuff like Heart of the Wild in T6, but there are plenty of less obvious examples. A resto druid will now be able to help with CC via typhoon, vortex, roar, etc.

[Hawkbit]

So, I've been away from WoW for a year... so excuse the dumb questions.

For mages, are there no fire/frost/arc mages anymore?  The class comes down to a series of six choices with three results each?

How are they going to balance, say the DK which doesn't appear to have any talents that scream 'tank'... it seems that they will have classes that can (*gasp*) both tank and dps.

[sinij]

Would you WANT full voice over of WoW's story?

Exactly, you couldn't click accept any faster... and who would want to have to LISTEN to that fanfic read by some developer in a monotone voice because they run out of voice-over budget?

[Ingmar]

So, I've been away from WoW for a year... so excuse the dumb questions.

For mages, are there no fire/frost/arc mages anymore?  The class comes down to a series of six choices with three results each?

How are they going to balance, say the DK which doesn't appear to have any talents that scream 'tank'... it seems that they will have classes that can (*gasp*) both tank and dps.

There are still specs, with different abilities from each other. This is just one part of the class system, that lets you customize a bit beyond the broad "I are frost" sort of choice you make at level 10.

The idea is fewer but more interesting choices, which on paper looks like they have a shot at achieving to me.

[Tannhauser]

I can't WAIT for all of the Kung Fu Panda references.  My knees will be slapped silly. /end green

[Merusk]

Funny, I can perform both tanking and dps quite well currently.

At the same time? (which is what Ingmar meant.

[Rendakor]

Hawkbit, when you hit level 10 you pick a spec (Fire/Frost/Arcane for mages, etc.) which gives you a bunch* of abilities related to that spec.

Regarding druids specifically, Nature's Swiftness is going to be very nice for bears since they'll be able to brez without shifting out and risking death.

*Currently you get 1 core skill a couple passives, but for MoP they're making more abilities spec specific.

[Evildrider]

Funny, I can perform both tanking and dps quite well currently.

At the same time? (which is what Ingmar meant.

Sure if he's a well geared Warrior.

[Ingmar]

"Shitty" was probably an overstatement too. Feral druids are as close as it gets, yes. I don't believe even now that there's an 'all the best of both worlds' spec though?

[Hawkbit]

There are still specs, with different abilities from each other. This is just one part of the class system, that lets you customize a bit beyond the broad "I are frost" sort of choice you make at level 10.

The idea is fewer but more interesting choices, which on paper looks like they have a shot at achieving to me.

Thanks, actually I like this idea, if it plays out how I think it will.  Less maths, more playing.  

[Nevermore]

Funny, I can perform both tanking and dps quite well currently.

At the same time? (which is what Ingmar meant.

Yes, without changing my spec and only a couple of pieces of gear.  And even the gear thing isn't really that necessary.

And Rokal seems to have a different definition of 'hybrid' than I have.

Edit:

"Shitty" was probably an overstatement too. Feral druids are as close as it gets, yes. I don't believe even now that there's an 'all the best of both worlds' spec though?

Feral is actually closer to that now in cata than in wrath.  You do have to give up a couple of things, but it's relatively minor.  On my spec, the only tanking talents I don't have are 4% (out of 6%) magic damage reduction and the triple stack faerie fire, iirc.

[sinij]

Well, reality is that WoW already Jumped The Shark, all of this expansion is really biding time until Titan. Honestly speaking, I don't see how they can convince average gamer to subscribe to WoW over Star Wars or even new Diablo.

I think Blizzard better shift focus on Titan, abandoning WoW was huge mistake but now it is too late to fix it.

[Ingmar]

Never say the word reality again. Even when you're accidentally right you aren't entitled to use it.

[Hawkbit]

Outside of choosing which 'specialization' a class will be, does a player make any other choices regarding that spec, outside of the talents?

[Ingmar]

Glyphs would be the only other thing, the major and minor glyphs are pretty customizable (not so with the prime glyphs but that is as designed.)

[Hawkbit]

Thanks, Ingmar.  I like this idea overall.  It's not radically different, but just seems more simplified and streamlined.

[Amaron]

Yea it really feels like they are taking what they learned in D3 and applying it to WoW.

[Rokal]

Goals for Mists of Pandaria

-Keep the experience short and focused. Dungeons should be short enough to let you run a couple of dungeons when you feel like it, not just one.

Dungeons

-9 new dungeons in the new expansion

So they're going to give us 9 dungeons instead of 7, but the dungeons will be 1/2 as long as the current ones?  

[Evildrider]

Yea it really feels like they are taking what they learned in D3 and applying it to WoW.

Sooo incoming real money auction house?

[Hutch]

Hunters

Tier 1: Frost for pvp. For pve, Arcane vs Venom will be determined by plugging them into a spreadsheet.
Tier 2: Silence vs Wyvern vs Intimidation. Silence vs sleep vs stun. All on fairly long cooldowns. My personal favorite out of those is Intimidation, but I expect raid mobs to be immune to these effects anyway.
Tier 3: For pvp, a tossup? For pve, I'd lean towards the heal effect. But this entire tier's usefulness hinges on how often you use Disengage, so it's kind of a booby prize.
Tier 4: The Iron Hawk looks like a decent choice for both pvp and pve. Spirit Bond might be useful in a raid environment, if there's not a lot of random raid damage going out. So, Iron Hawk.
Tier 5: As a SV hunter, I'm a big fan of Thrill of the Hunt, because of the intermittent focus refunds that it provides. Readiness, however, is the primary cause of MM envy among non-MM hunters.
Tier 6: I like Black Ice for pve. The transmorph trap is clearly designed for pvp, although Flash Freeze might be better.

As has been said already, these "talents" are obviously subject to change. And I'm viewing this through the lens of a level 85 SV hunter with the abilities that are available in the game right now, as opposed to a level 90 hunter with who knows what abilities we'll have at level 90. So ymmv.

[Simond]

"Quests on Pandaria will provide a less linear experience, with multiple quest hubs to choose from"

This may be the best news I've heard so far.

The overriding theme I've picked up from MoP preview stuff is "You know how Cataclysm was designed? This is the opposite".

[koro]

Seems there are to be no level 90 Normal dungeons. Heroics only.

Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of having a "Heroic" designation for things?

[Merusk]

DKs:

Guess what, you're getting nerfed AGAIN!

You lose outbreak, runic empowerment, blood tap, and death pact as baseline abilities.  Don't worry you can get them back with talents! That's fair, right?

Also, hungering cold looks like it totally disappears, replaced by a stacking-over-time debuff that turns into a stun.

sux2bu.

[Simond]

Post-nerf hungering cold is terrible anyway, so no great loss there.

[caladein]

"Quests on Pandaria will provide a less linear experience, with multiple quest hubs to choose from"

This may be the best news I've heard so far.

The overriding theme I've picked up from MoP preview stuff is "You know how Cataclysm was designed? This is the opposite".

From the systems perspective, I don't see how you can think that.  The Cata talent trees are mostly designed around "everyone gets the obvious 30-something points" and then chooses where to put a couple of 2-4.  This is just stripping out the last of the required points.

[Margalis]

It seems like an odd strategy to battle a new sci-fi, somewhat serious MMO with an expansion that is basically for kids and based on a joke.

I kind of suspect that a lot of people are going to play SWTOR, get some taste of more adult situations, look back over at WoW where a quest involves getting GasX pills for a flatulent panda bear and wonder what they ever saw in it.

It seems Blizzard is doubling down on the difference between WoW and SWTOR at least thematically.

[Ingmar]

It seems like an odd strategy to battle a new sci-fi, somewhat serious MMO with an expansion that is basically for kids and based on a joke.

Because WoW was totally serious before.

* Ingmar hops in his motorcycle with a cow-man riding in the sidecar and drives off to Brewfest to shoot pink elephants with a laser.

The motorcycle still bothers me more than any of this Pandaren stuff.

[caladein]

Well, some part of WoW's appeal to me is that it can be a serious Punching Internet Dragons game in a silly setting.

The ridiculous animations my Goblin Hunter has or the fact that the villains are out of bad Saturday morning cartoons act as a nice counterweight to the "Move two feet to your left now or we all die." moments.

Edit: LotRO does the same thing with The Shire or Lothlorien without being silly or pop-culture-y throughout, but they're just as essential to the game I think.  Rift has hints of it, but mostly it's just a joyless slog.

[Merusk]

Yes, people will play TOR and totally say "oh that other game was silly, let's never play that again."

Just like they never laugh at fart jokes after watching a harrowing drama.

 

[Rokal]

My mistake, there are 6 new dungeons and 3 'heroic' versions of old dungeons. Scarlet Monastery counts as 2 dungeons for this count. So...

Scholomance, SM1, SM2, and 6 new dungeons that are substantially shorter than Cata dungeons? Where do I sign up?

[Ingmar]

Does seem a little thin, although I get the impression the PVE scenarios are supposed to fill part of that role as well.