Mists of Pandaria

[Malakili]

Pandas =  
Monk =  
New Talens  =

I like the idea of the new talent system, but we will have to see how it works.

On the other hand, I am super tempted to buy the year subscription thing. I was planning on buying Diablo 3 anyway, and I know I will be subbed for at least the next 4 months or so as it is now. Plus I am a huge sucker for a cool mount.

How much is the yearly sub if you buy it al at once?  If Diablo 3 is 60 bucks, which i assume it will be, thats probably worth was, 5 months of WoW at the yearly price?  I guess they plan on making a lot of money in D3 off the AH, since they are basically just giving it away.

[Sjofn]

So I guess Monks are like melee casters in that if they don't push a button, they get no damage?  I certainly hope they have some attacks that either don't use that 'chi energy' or generates it, which I guess would make them feel sort of like melee Hunters?

With no auto-attack, they pretty much would have to have a "build energy" attack, I would think.

[Ragnoros]

I don't know what yall are bitching about. Watching a pirate stream (now down ) the new system looks awesome.

The changes will probably by up on their website in a few hours. Or just find your own pirate source.

[Evildrider]

They have screens of the talent trees on MMO Champ.  I am seriously unimpressed.  

[Lakov_Sanite]

I disagree. The way the talent trees are, it seems like there will be a lot of room for different builds.

[sinij]

  Give paladins a new healing spec that actually requires hitting stuff.

That would be so fucking annoying in PvP it is not even funny. I loved the warpriest in WAR for PvE, but it was a pain in the ass in PvP, even with their slightly-better-for-it targeting system.

Paladin healing isn't broken the way you think it is. There is absolutely no fucking reason to fix it.

Everything else, especially Retribution (you know, iconic paladin tree) is broken. So you have Holy (least paladin-ish tree) working, while everything else doesn't. Just rename class Cleric and delete Retribution tree.

[Rokal]

How much is the yearly sub if you buy it al at once?  If Diablo 3 is 60 bucks, which i assume it will be, thats probably worth was, 5 months of WoW at the yearly price?  I guess they plan on making a lot of money in D3 off the AH, since they are basically just giving it away.

There is no 'all at once'. The longest sub plan is still 6 months, you're just locking yourself into paying that price plan twice if you pick it. It essentially boils down to a yearly WoW subscription for ~$100 if you were planning on buying D3 at full price, so it's not a bad deal.

Everything else, especially Retribution (you know, iconic paladin tree) is broken. So you have Holy (least paladin-ish tree) working, while everything else doesn't. Just rename class Cleric and delete Retribution tree.

Protection paladin is working fine and is one of the most popular tanks in the game. Of course, I wouldn't expect one of your "everything sucks and I'm a victim" posts to actually be well-informed 

[Sjofn]

So I guess Monks are like melee casters in that if they don't push a button, they get no damage?  I certainly hope they have some attacks that either don't use that 'chi energy' or generates it, which I guess would make them feel sort of like melee Hunters?

With no auto-attack, they pretty much would have to have a "build energy" attack, I would think.

Well, now I've actually read a little, it doesn't look like chi is used for a lot to start with?

Monk Resources

-Chi (energy) slowly regenerates and is only used for your Jab and Roll abilities.
-Jab generates Light and Dark force, which are used for everything else. Some finishing move uses dark force, some use the light force.
-No auto attack! Devs want you to have this street fighter feel where you punch a lot

[Sjofn]

Everything else, especially Retribution (you know, iconic paladin tree) is broken. So you have Holy (least paladin-ish tree) working, while everything else doesn't. Just rename class Cleric and delete Retribution tree.

There is nothing at all wrong with the protection tree.

[koro]

Choice is between survivability talent versus survivability talent versus survivability talent, or DPS talent versus DPS talent versus DPS talent. Never choose between DPS or survivability or utility talent.

Hunters.

Frost Arrows = snare vs Arcane Arrows = recharge focus vs Venom Arrows = poison DoT.

Well that sure lasted a while!

[Fordel]

I'm always amazed at how people freak the fuck out over talent changes. And not just actual ones, the theoretical ones especially. Never mind that there's a whole slew of new content or whatever, threads devolve into back and forth over fucking paladins or druids. I especially hate the druid conversations.

 

Well considering the mechanical changes to my class/spec was the primary reason I unsubbed in Cata.  

[Amaron]

Maybe you need to explain yourself a little better. I just don't think introducing warpriest-like mechanics to the paladin is a good idea. I also don't see the point in making them more melee oriented if it's more "I want them to be able to punch people on principle."

I'll try to explain better.  I'm only offering suggestions.  I don't really care about any particular solution.  Blizzard though thinks holy paladin is a constant problem.   It's very prone to becoming too popular/good and always has been.   When they get it to be ok in PvE it becomes stupid overpowered in PvP.   Etc etc.   They are going to keep messing with it and mucking up the class forever.  

They are probably going to revamp it again and screw it up now that you like it.   Wouldn't you rather have the play style you enjoy divorced from the problem?  Having ret/prot be in a different class could be the best thing that could happen to Holy Paladins.  

[Rokal]

Choice is between survivability talent versus survivability talent versus survivability talent, or DPS talent versus DPS talent versus DPS talent. Never choose between DPS or survivability or utility talent.

Hunters.

Frost Arrows = snare vs Arcane Arrows = recharge focus vs Venom Arrows = poison DoT.

Well that sure lasted a while!

Looking at the rogue examples, it actually seems like they might succeed in this. The last tier of abilities will end up being min-max, but everything else seems like it will be a legitimate choice.

The big problem with this new 'talent tree' is that they are taking some abilities that were baseline and are making them optional. If you are taking away abilities players used to have, they are going to be pissed. It looks like rogues might loose Sprint, for example, unless they decide to spend a talent point on it instead of getting preparation or shadow step.

[Sjofn]

They are probably going to revamp it again and screw it up now that you like it.   Wouldn't you rather have the play style you enjoy divorced from the problem?  Having ret/prot be in a different class could be the best thing that could happen to Holy Paladins.  

By sticking it on another class I hate playing because leveling it makes my eyes bleed? No, I'd really rather they didn't.

[Ingmar]

That hunter arrow one is really the only one that has jumped out at me as an oops.

[Ingmar]

They are probably going to revamp it again and screw it up now that you like it.   Wouldn't you rather have the play style you enjoy divorced from the problem?  Having ret/prot be in a different class could be the best thing that could happen to Holy Paladins.  

By sticking it on another class I hate playing because leveling it makes my eyes bleed? No, I'd really rather they didn't.

And also doesn't let you have your other spec be a tank.

[Trippy]

What's the estimated release date for this? I need to plan when to build another quad-box setup to play this again

[Rokal]

Q1 2012 was the 'target' date from that leaked Blizzard product slate that has turned out to be accurate. People were guessing February, but this is Blizzard so..

[Evildrider]

6 months after 4.3 actually hits servers, so next summer?

[Amaron]

By sticking it on another class I hate playing because leveling it makes my eyes bleed? No, I'd really rather they didn't.

Like I said it's just an off hand solution.   There are far better ones they're just harder.   With a complete talent revamp incoming they won't pass up the chance to alter holy paladin heavily again.

Regarding Amaron's  suggestions for pallies, you're getting a melee healer in MoP. It's called monk.

   I don't want a melee healer.   I want Paladins to stop being screwed with and ret to stop being stupid.   Holy is the cause of that.

[Ingmar]

How the fuck am I supposed to choose between bladestorm, shockwave, and fucking avatar? That is without a doubt the hardest choice the talent system has EVER offered me.

[Kirth]

Just put in AA grinding. 

Also I would be very surprised if this gets released in 2012, get ready for a year of farming deathwing.

[Sjofn]

By sticking it on another class I hate playing because leveling it makes my eyes bleed? No, I'd really rather they didn't.

Like I said it's just an off hand solution.   There are far better ones they're just harder.   With a complete talent revamp incoming they won't pass up the chance to alter holy paladin heavily again.

Looking at the talents available, it doesn't look like they're going to alter it heavily. I'm sure it'll change, because that's what they do to paladins, but I don't think it will be changing so much I hate it. Like I said, there really isn't anything wrong with paladins having their holy spec the way it is. It's work, but given they made the monk the melee healer (and godspeed to people trying to play it with this UI, I am not optimistic for them), this is really just silly wankery.

I like the paladin talents, although tier ... four, I think, looked pretty boring.

[Ingmar]

The only "problem" with paladin healers as they currently stand at this point is that they have to have a whole type of gear just for them (int plate.) That's something they can just live with or fix another way without having to say 'sorry healing paladins, you don't get to be paladins anymore'.

Ret isn't   because of holy, not anymore. And I should add the fact that they're moving some of the 'core' things like holy light to things you get from the spec makes it even easier to get rid of that issue.

[Sjofn]

One day they'll give up and just have holy paladins want to stack str. 

[Fordel]

Maybe bears will get real tanking gear again now that Monks exist.

[Nevermore]

Looking at the rogue examples, it actually seems like they might succeed in this. The last tier of abilities will end up being min-max, but everything else seems like it will be a legitimate choice.

The big problem with this new 'talent tree' is that they are taking some abilities that were baseline and are making them optional. If you are taking away abilities players used to have, they are going to be pissed. It looks like rogues might loose Sprint, for example, unless they decide to spend a talent point on it instead of getting preparation or shadow step.

So far I've looked 4 5 classes.

Druid: Completely spec driven.  Very few choices that aren't defined by whether you're Feral, Boomkin or Resto.

Mage: They've taken away abilities players used to have.  You can now only take Cone of Cold or Ring of Frost, for example.  That said, there's some hilariously overpowered combos you can get, like having a Frost Mage with Cone of Cold, Dragon's Breath, Greater Invisibility (instantly invisible, plus it removes DoTs!) and that currently Arcane talent that let's you instant cast any spell once every 1.5 minutes.

Death Knight: Nothing terribly inspiring.  A few you'd *have* to take if you tank, otherwise mostly flavor stuff that ultimately doesn't seem to make a lot of difference.

Paladin: Sorry Ret, you can only have the 6 second stun or Repentance or the Seal of Justice snare.  So another one that takes away abilities you already have.  Otherwise it's also mostly uninspiring.

Edit: Rogues: That speed talent isn't Sprint.  It looks more like a self only version of Stampede; an instant short burst of speed that breaks snares instead of the longer duration Sprint.  Rogues seem to have more choices to define how they want to play compared to the other classes I looked at.  That said, it makes me wonder what the difference between Combat, Assassination and Subtlety are supposed to be since they seem to have taken the abilities that made them unique and made them available to everyone.  That said, Subtlety gets screwed since they can only have Prep or Shadowstep, not both.

Still have Rogues and Shaman to look at.

[AcidCat]

"Quests on Pandaria will provide a less linear experience, with multiple quest hubs to choose from"

This may be the best news I've heard so far.

[Trippy]

Q1 2012 was the 'target' date from that leaked Blizzard product slate that has turned out to be accurate. People were guessing February, but this is Blizzard so..

Oh good that's plenty of time.

[Sjofn]

"Quests on Pandaria will provide a less linear experience, with multiple quest hubs to choose from"

This may be the best news I've heard so far.

Yeah, that was easily my biggest complaint about the 80+ stuff in Cataclysm.

[Evildrider]

Will they have full voice over and story?   

[Fordel]

Would you WANT full voice over of WoW's story?

[Sjofn]

Fuck no. Timmy the Intern is bad enough in the small doses we already get.


EDIT: Although I wouldn't mind having the dude who voiced Van Cleef talking in my ear constantly.

[Ingmar]

I'm not seeing druid as completely spec driven. There are are at least 2 good choices at each tier for any spec, and 3 at several, tier 6 is the only one where I think there's a cookie cutter choice but it is more of a PVP vs. PVE one than a spec based one.

Tier 1: I can see any spec wanting any of these 3. The first is a passive speed boost in ALL forms, the second is a get out of jail card for anyone, the third is a snare break. All are useful to anyone.
Tier 2: The first one isn't very sexy for the 2 feral specs outside of pvp, but good for either caster and good for the ferals in pvp. The second one is good for anyone, so is the 3rd.
Tier 3: First one good for anyone but non-pvp resto. Second one is an AE root, anyone can find a use for that, but you have to shift out so perhaps less exciting for the ferals. Third is any-form typhoon.
Tier 4: We can't see the full tooltip for these and we don't know what the spec-specific trees do, but it appears all choices are or could be viable for all specs.
Tier 5: AE disorient, good for anyone. AE pull-in-deathgrip thing, probably only bears want. DAOC grapple, anyone can find a use for that (and might be OP and go away IMO.)
Tier 6: A thing that lets you emergency fill another role, the weird stacking dps buff, and the old pvp standby of shifting breaking roots but with healing piled on top. This is the least exciting tier, but we can't see the whole tooltip for the emergency role switching one yet to know if it will draw people away from disentanglement, which I see almost everyone taking.

Don't make me do this for every class. ><

EDIT: Also remember we are not seeing the whole puzzle here, without knowing what abilities are now core for everyone and what are spec-only we can't make any calls about 'oh they ruined what made spec X feel unique' etc.

[Fordel]

Do it, you know you want to.


-edit- The bad thing I can see with a lot of these Druid Talents, is all that shifting is going to pile on Extra GCD's. Unless shape shifting itself is all different too.