Isengard trailer up, due 9/27

[Modern Angel]

http://youtu.be/HAZHEYmZzeI

[Riggswolfe]

Wow I didn't expect to see it that soon!

[Modern Angel]

They've been saying this fall for a pretty long time.

The pre-order bonuses are insanely awesome.

[Mrbloodworth]

Can buy with turbine points?

[Modern Angel]

Dunno, haven't checked in game yet.

[HaemishM]

The web site says $29.99 - $49.99 so looks like real money. The different pricing tiers are based on what pre-order bonuses you want.

[Modern Angel]

Even the base pre-order bonuses are pretty excellent. I mean, buying it now for 25% experience boost for the next 3.5 months? At the lowest price point? That's pretty awesome, though becomes less awesome the longer you wait... which is precisely what they're banking on.

[Zetor]

They're taking the hobbi-- oh.  

75 is a big jump. I assume the 65 [and even 60] instances will still function as 'endgame' with the scaling wotsit? Speaking of which: I might be tempted to jump on this if turbine implements an LFG interface that works ...

[Ingmar]

Even the base pre-order bonuses are pretty excellent. I mean, buying it now for 25% experience boost for the next 3.5 months? At the lowest price point? That's pretty awesome, though becomes less awesome the longer you wait... which is precisely what they're banking on.

Is it only for 3.5 months? The preorder page just says 'until level 65' so presumably it applies to everything under 65, forever?

EDIT: Bought it, because I am a sucker, and there's nothing I've seen yet about the time on that being limited.

[Modern Angel]

That's pretty cool then. Still, I bet the +25% XP goes live for everyone on expansion launch so investing early makes you a radder dude than the guy next to you who didn't preorder early.

[Ingmar]

Yeah I would expect you get it when you buy it regardless, stuff like that is typically designed to accelerate people to the new endgame level or whatever.

[Soln]

I might be tempted to jump on this if turbine implements an LFG interface that works ...

unless they say they're doing it, don't expect it.  I'd prefer a more PUG friendly experience than GLFF, but I guess it's working, otherwise they would have said something.

dunno if I'm going to play.  Haven't logged in since 3.2?  The end game is the LI grind, which is too much like (economic) real life.

[Mrbloodworth]

Seems you can buy it later with points ( No perks) , but pre-order is cash money.

[Cheddar]

Cannot wait.

[Soln]

so lvl 75, 24 man raid, new skills, but no new classes/races?  new virtues or just going to 11?  any more details than what's on http://isengard.lotro.com/?

[Ingmar]

I wouldn't ever expect new races, just based on the lore. Unless we're going to be playing Woses or something.

[proudft]

Ents.  Start at level 55, can only have 2 quests in the log at a time.   

[Stormwaltz]

Someone made a decent case for Beornings as a race, but I don't see it happening.

To my own surprise, I didn't immediately preorder. I looked at the page, felt a profound ambivalence, and walked away. I'd like the full slew of cosmetics, but as a grandfathered lifer, I don't need anything else in the soopar-expensive version. Lately my enthusiasm for LotRO has been cooled, and it's difficult to justify the expense.

I still love the game when I have something to do, but after playing for almost four years, I don't have anything left to do. The last patch gave me two skirmishes, one of which is effectively unplayable for a soloing squishy class. According to Raptr, I've only played four hours of LotRO in the last month.

I'm hoping I'll get excited again closer to ship, as more details become available.

[Tannhauser]

Would have liked to have seen a new class, oh well.  Looks pretty good, but I will hold off.  I'm very surprised and happy it's coming out so soon, I figured holiday season. 

[Modern Angel]

If you haven't checked the dev blogs, it looks like they're doing full blown redesigns of all the classes to make them easier and more functional hybrids. I'd take that over a new class any day, given some of the existing issues with ease of use in a lot of the current classes.

[Zetor]

Yep. Too many classes are locked into ONE role right now (I'm looking at you, wardens) and most others can only do two at most (and you're locked into the thing your spec is 'best at'... RKs may be an exception?). If there's anything to be learned from rift, it's that character flexibility = good. Maybe dual specs?  

I'm satisfied with the captain redesign, for instance... all three 'talent trees' are distinct for each role, which they weren't before (other than the healing tree, obv).

[Mrbloodworth]

Waite, what? That was one of the good design points of LOTRO, hybrid classes. Well before Rift or other games picked up on it.

[Zetor]

Errr, not really... WOW had some of those hybrids back in 2004, and I'm sure some other dikus (like EQ2) had them too. Warning: WOW parallels ahead.  

A champion is a damage class focusing on aoe. You can sort of tank, but it's the same as a 31/5/15 vanilla WOW warrior going into defensive stance with a 1-hander, ie. not that good.
A hunter can do damage and debuffs... not sure about cc (I don't have a hunter).
A minstrel can do damage or healing... when in damage mode it's just like a moonkin / shadowpriest / elemental shaman in WOW.
A captain used to be a buffbot with some healing and debuffs and bad (bursty) damage, which is just like ye olde ret paladin, with more tools. With the update, they can finally choose to be good at one role.
A RK breaks the mold kinda since they can heal and damage with the same 'spec', but they can't do it at the same time (which is understandable)
A guardian can tank OR dps, which is not that different from a cat/bear feral druid (who can switch roles mid-combat, even).
A burglar mostly controls and debuffs, they can kinda-sorta tank for small groups I guess.
A warden can tank. Damage is fine for soloing, but they run out of energy in groups and their damage is underwhelming anyway.
A loremaster is a wildcard, but they're a support/control character (unless they spec for damage, which gimps their control skills).

How would lotro be hurt by allowing dual specs or changing some of the classes I listed so they're at least as flexible as the RK or guardian?

[Mrbloodworth]

Yes really.

[Zetor]

I like your well-reasoned argument. 

[Mrbloodworth]

I had it years ago already.

[Modern Angel]

I'm a huge fan of LOTRO's classes but the notion that they're hybrids in the way that WoW and Rift currently define the term is stupid and wrong. Guardians can't actually do good DPS like a WoW Warrior or Druid can with a quick flick of the button. Minstrels sort of can switch well as of a couple months ago but to say their DPS was "good" for the bulk of the game's lifespan is just wrong.

[Soln]

I haven't found in the last year any problems with class balance.  If anything as a former raid minnie I'm jealous at how well RK's have taken over the main healer role. Regardless, people seem to be getting on quite well -- no need to hybridize classes anymore.  Unless this more about solo'ifying the game, which I also don't think is needed.  It's still an MMO -- just incent and help people to group more if it's a problem.

Re. new classes:  I was sure (?) they said somewhere with the next big expansion there would be new classes (plural).  Everyone for some reason has been going on about mounted combat for so long (which I dont think is needed) I just assumed they were going to add some Rohirrim special classes.  Along with a Rohirrim race of men.

So yeah.  Great game. Very glad it's doing well for Turbine.  But I'm taking a break for a bit longer.

EDIT:  why is this 25% exp bonus supposed to be a help?  Wouldn't it make sense to just lower the curve now to get everyone at 65?   I wish they would either lower the curve or get on with refactoring the other zones after lvl 20.  I just can not stand 35-45 (looking at you Evendim or Trollshaws) and it feels like its been that way since the launch of Moria.  (and I know they re-did Evendim: it still sucks)

[Modern Angel]

New Evendim is awesome. You're crazy.

As I'm reading the proposed changes, they seem mainly like streamlining, soloizing and quality of life stuffing the classes. Redesign may be too strong a term but it's definitely more than just giving each class a pass, at least based on what we're seeing so far. Random example: Warden's getting a new on proc five move Gambit as a one button press sometimes, plus a force taunt that's not retarded. Or for Champions, making tanking dual wield with no need for a shield and turning that midway stance (name escapes me) into a +damage for AE stance.

[Ingmar]

Rohan has been a possible origin for Men since the game came out (not that the origin thing means much other than a title and maybe restricting your hair colors.)

[Tarami]

Seriously, the classes in LotRO are one of the best things about it. They're all a little hybridy, kind of fuzzy around the edges, not really fitting squarely in any one archetypical role. A whole group playing their class, rather than just their DIKU role, to the fullest makes an enormous difference.

No, they aren't what other games call hybrids, but a game like WoW doesn't technically do classes. It does roles. Which combination of roles you can fill is determined by your class. I'm not entirely sure that is the definition of a hybrid, because it's close to entirely either-or. An Arms warrior is nothing like a Protection Warrior, even solo. Likewise is a Balance druid nothing like a Feral druid. You have other skills, gear, rotations, priorities.

LotRO does hybriding in a subtler/messier way. Speccing is more about reinforcement than redefinition.

[Zetor]

I never said lotro's class design wasn't awesome (in fact, I've said at least 4-5 times that their class design is why I am still interested in the game after all these years :p). That doesn't contradict the need for streamlined specs, more flexibility within classes, or multiple specs. I am also mostly talking about (harder) instances here -- you can do lower-level instances without a healer/tank even in wow just fine (I remember our 4-hunter 1-rogue gnomeregan run back in '04).

Example (and this contributed to most of my guildies getting fed up with the game, though Lothlorien was what broke the camel's back for most): the high-level 'mains' in my guild are 2 minstrels, a burglar, a loremaster, and sometimes a guardian. First off, this is 4/5 people, so we can't really do 6mans without pugging (and that just doesn't happen on Silverlode -- refer to my complaints about LFG), and 3mans without having people sit out. The group has a well-defined tank if we have a guardian, otherwise we are kinda SOL (we used loremaster pets, protector soldiers and burglar tanking / minstrel offtanking to not-so-good effect). Our damage is very low since the 'dps minstrel', the burglar and the loremaster are all support characters, and I [loremaster] can't spec for balls-to-the-wall damage without gimping my control, which is crucial for 3-man skirmishes and instances. This was also before the minstrel pass, so the 2nd minstrel was not able to do much at all.

Our alt group has two wardens, a guardian, a champion, and a loremaster. You can't really do anything outside of skirmishes (w/ herbalist pet/s) with this group; both of the wardens HAVE to tank since their dps is bad and clunky, the guardian has to use overpower stance... except he also wanted to be a tank and has specced/geared that way. Oh well.

This would be greatly improved if the classes had the option to be good at some of the things they do (like captains after their redesign), and be able to switch between these specs to best fit the group's needs.

[Stormwaltz]

Massively has a new article. Crafting to 7, virtues to 12.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/09/e3-2011-a-ride-through-lotros-rise-of-isengard/

[Tarami]

Amped to 11.

[Cheddar]

Level 12 Virtues?  Freaking lame.  Was hoping for 15.