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Author Topic: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27  (Read 11200 times)
Azazel
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Reply #35 on: June 09, 2011, 11:32:54 PM

How are they doing the mounts? 1 mount full stop or 1 for each character like they did with the Moria Goats?

http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
Rokal
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Reply #36 on: June 10, 2011, 01:20:10 AM

One for each character and any you make in the future. Unless you buy the expensive version, in which case it is 3 mounts (and 3 sets of cosmetic armor) for every character and any you make in the future. I like the cosmetic armor/horses from the pre-order a lot, and getting some quest packs for free in-case I ever go premium was a nice bonus. I haven't read the dev diaries yet, but dual-wield tanking for champions sounds awesome. Tanking feels so slow and clunky as a champion at the moment. A true taunt for wardens will also be very nice, though it's something they should have thought to add years ago.
Azazel
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Reply #37 on: June 16, 2011, 10:23:30 PM

OK that sounds decent. Anyone know the pre-order-bonus cutoff-date? I missed it by about 2 days for Moria.  swamp poop

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Ingmar
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Reply #38 on: June 16, 2011, 11:28:20 PM

The outfits are really snazzy looking, they do a nice job with that stuff.

EDIT: BE WARNED however, the +25% xp is granted via a pocket item with no other stats, so you will be giving that slot up to get it.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 11:36:48 PM by Ingmar »

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Yegolev
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Reply #39 on: June 17, 2011, 11:44:21 AM

EDIT: BE WARNED however, the +25% xp is granted via a pocket item with no other stats, so you will be giving that slot up to get it.


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Rokal
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Reply #40 on: June 17, 2011, 02:34:35 PM

I saw that as a plus, since it meant I at least had the option to turn the 25% off if I was leveling with a friend that didn't have the bonus, which is all of my friends since they are cheap bastards. I don't think I got a useful pocket item until maybe level 25-30?
Stormwaltz
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Reply #41 on: June 21, 2011, 01:53:41 PM

A dev diary on the stats upgrade (b/p/e, outgoing healing, etc.).

http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/devdiaries/1276-rise-of-isengard-developer-diary-new-stat-updates

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Ingmar
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Reply #42 on: June 21, 2011, 01:57:15 PM

A dev diary on the stats upgrade (b/p/e, outgoing healing, etc.).

http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/devdiaries/1276-rise-of-isengard-developer-diary-new-stat-updates

Good, I wasn't looking forward to doing all the virtue juggling once I actually hit 65 and get my virtues settled.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Soln
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Reply #43 on: June 21, 2011, 04:23:07 PM

dont know what to make of that.  A new stat for harder instances?  Feels WoW-y.
Ingmar
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Reply #44 on: June 21, 2011, 04:25:16 PM

Seems like it is pretty much a way for them to support tiered raiding/dungeons/whatever without increasing levels. Monsters ignore more of your defences -> you need better defences to fight those monsters. So yeah, WoW-y in that sense. Kind of like a way to handle what radiance was originally doing but with more finesse.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Modern Angel
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Reply #45 on: June 21, 2011, 04:57:30 PM

The thing is that the game is so broad in terms of difficulty that there's plenty of room for them to tweak things upward without leaving anyone behind. All those changes are basically great.
Soln
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Reply #46 on: June 21, 2011, 07:03:21 PM

they seem to be planning to simplify stats, which is great.  I just don't know if introducing a "raider" stat makes sense.   I keep thinking of WoW's "resilience" is all.  We'll see.
Modern Angel
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Reply #47 on: June 21, 2011, 08:02:15 PM

I'd only be nervous if it were in a game with the same raid or die mentality. LOTRO has so much small group content that they can toss shit to the raiders all they want. I don't mind a bit. In WoW and Rift everything is funneled to that raiding endgame. LOTRO's just different in that regard and I see no indication that they're changing things up (though I could see the new raid being 24 man making nervous people, um, nervous).
Furiously
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Reply #48 on: September 26, 2011, 08:56:50 PM

Released today. Patching now.

Modern Angel
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Reply #49 on: September 27, 2011, 05:25:40 AM

Without parses I can't be sure but it sure as shit feels like DPS is up across the board. My Warden is wrecking shit at almost twice the speed and I'm Shield traited.
luckton
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Reply #50 on: September 27, 2011, 06:02:49 AM

Without parses I can't be sure but it sure as shit feels like DPS is up across the board. My Warden is wrecking shit at almost twice the speed and I'm Shield traited.

They did actually say in the Warden dev diary that Warden DPS was getting boosted so they they could do something other than tanking  Ohhhhh, I see.

I started a Burglar...should keep me entertained until TOR comes.  I like the changes, so far.

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rattran
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Reply #51 on: September 27, 2011, 10:39:11 AM

Champ has been completely redone, and is so much fun it's bound to be nerfed. All 3 stances have purpose, though Ardour is still meh. No Fervour healing penalty, massive damage increase, and bubbles! Fervour also generates less threat, so in a group last night I could just rock out, and not end up with aggro. Also, blade blocking in Glory I guess, no more heavy shield trait.
Modern Angel
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Reply #52 on: September 27, 2011, 11:59:31 AM

All my friends are reporting that they feel like their dps is increased, no matter their level or class.
Soln
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Reply #53 on: September 27, 2011, 01:02:33 PM

well, they gotta get their base up to the cap.  Or at least to Mirkwood/Enedwaith (if not Moria).  Makes sense to increase dmg.  Hope it lasts.
Rokal
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Reply #54 on: September 27, 2011, 02:04:05 PM

Champ has been completely redone, and is so much fun it's bound to be nerfed. All 3 stances have purpose, though Ardour is still meh. No Fervour healing penalty, massive damage increase, and bubbles! Fervour also generates less threat, so in a group last night I could just rock out, and not end up with aggro. Also, blade blocking in Glory I guess, no more heavy shield trait.

I keep trying to activate flurry in Fervour stance, but it can't be used since flurry is now always on in fervour. Going to take some getting used to, but my champion felt stronger than he did before the patch.
Soln
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Reply #55 on: September 27, 2011, 10:27:24 PM

checking out stuff tonight after a couple of months away, and revisiting the LI system and the new relic crafting system... pardon me, but with fresh eyes this is roflcopter level complexity.  How the fuck does the average, paying casual gamer get into this?   I'm sure it's great for my former kinnies, but this just seems way over the top for the average joe.

cf.  http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Legendary_Items_Guide
Ingmar
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Reply #56 on: September 27, 2011, 11:35:39 PM

It's not TOO terrible the way the game introduces it, but yeah it is still really way more complicated than it probably needs to be.

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Azazel
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Reply #57 on: September 28, 2011, 12:38:41 AM

checking out stuff tonight after a couple of months away, and revisiting the LI system and the new relic crafting system... pardon me, but with fresh eyes this is roflcopter level complexity.  How the fuck does the average, paying casual gamer get into this?   I'm sure it's great for my former kinnies, but this just seems way over the top for the average joe.

cf.  http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Legendary_Items_Guide

As a casual player, who only just hit 60 last night due to getting gifted 1/3 of a level worth of xp and finding that my LI dailies now give 5k xp, I've just been spending the points on my LIs and not slotting anything into them and pretty much ignoring the whole Byzantine system since I don't have the energy or patience to learn WTF is going on. - I've gotten into the habit of the LI dailies since they only take 10mins a night to do 2 runs, and I figure all that shit will be useful later down the line. In theory.

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Tannhauser
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Reply #58 on: September 28, 2011, 04:44:00 AM

I'm probably the closest to the resident LOTRO fanboy here, but I think the LI system is, conceptually, bullshit.  This is its third iteration and it's still confusing and cumbersome.  I try to play it like a mini-game.  I started Moria and farmed my LI's once they hit level 11.  By the time I hit 60, I bought a First Age bow off the AH and melted down my LI's and cashed out all the xp tokens I had saved.  Took my FA bow to lvl 29 and I was able to put Tier 6 relics in them.

Now soon, I'll need to melt down my FA bow and that enrages the Tolkien geek inside me. 

If I leveled up another class, I'd be tempted to just skip the LI system until I got to Dunland at 65.  They make fine weapons for 50-65.  As a matter of fact, I have a 50 captain that I may do this with.
Modern Angel
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Reply #59 on: September 28, 2011, 05:05:21 AM

People messed with relics and min-maxing LIs before cap?

As I level, I basically just upgrade every three levels, melt down my current, jack up DPS on my new one and horde throwaway relics for cap. I'm not LOOKING at relics and stuff again until I hit 75 and have at least a Second Age.
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Reply #60 on: September 28, 2011, 08:45:11 AM

I'm probably the closest to the resident LOTRO fanboy here, but I think the LI system is, conceptually, bullshit.  This is its third iteration and it's still confusing and cumbersome.  I try to play it like a mini-game.  I started Moria and farmed my LI's once they hit level 11.  By the time I hit 60, I bought a First Age bow off the AH and melted down my LI's and cashed out all the xp tokens I had saved.  Took my FA bow to lvl 29 and I was able to put Tier 6 relics in them.

Now soon, I'll need to melt down my FA bow and that enrages the Tolkien geek inside me. 

If I leveled up another class, I'd be tempted to just skip the LI system until I got to Dunland at 65.  They make fine weapons for 50-65.  As a matter of fact, I have a 50 captain that I may do this with.


In terms of weapons, my experiences with leveling a warden (spear + javelin LIs) from 50-65 was that I could take a level-appropriate LI, spend points until the DPS trait was maxed out, and not find any quest reward or crafted weapon that offered superior dps. Plug relics of tier 4+ into it, and the LI is now competitive/superior on the stat buffs as well.

In order to keep this up, I had to be diligent about buying new LIs whenever I crossed a level threshold (53, 55, 57, etc).

This all may be moot now that Isengard is live, I haven't been paying close attention.

It would be less disruptive from a geek/lore perspective, maybe, if they hadn't called them "Legendary Items", and thus made the Tolkein nerds dream of a Glamdring to call their own. And (imo) the system would be better if you didn't have to do a bunch of research and/or draw a flow chart to figure out how to level up your relics. Having said that, it works, it provided me with nice weaponry all the way through level 65, and I never got emotionally invested in the lore behind it.

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Hutch
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Reply #61 on: September 28, 2011, 08:49:00 AM

People messed with relics and min-maxing LIs before cap?

As I level, I basically just upgrade every three levels, melt down my current, jack up DPS on my new one and horde throwaway relics for cap. I'm not LOOKING at relics and stuff again until I hit 75 and have at least a Second Age.

I messed with relics before the cap. I didn't strive to have top-tier relics, but the buffs you get from even mid-tier relics are pretty decent, and neither expensive nor terribly time-consuming (imo). Without relics, your LI weapon is just a dps stick. Quest/craft weapons provide stat buffs as well as dps, so the relics provide stat buffs that you can customize.


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rattran
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Reply #62 on: September 28, 2011, 09:49:22 AM

I just ran a Warden up to 59 (almost 60) and haven't used a LI spear yet, better dps/stats on quest rewards. The fact that dps doesn't max on a 3A until ~level 22 now means it takes too long to level one disposable use. And I'm still using a level 54 LI javelin.
Ingmar
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Reply #63 on: September 28, 2011, 10:54:56 AM

I don't recall seeing very many (any?) non-LI quest reward weapons on the run through Moria on my champ, other than off-hands.

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Soln
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Reply #64 on: September 28, 2011, 11:01:38 AM

I don't think there's much wrong at all with LotRO. I'm resubbing myself and Lianka, buying the expansion.  Got my brother even playing.  The LI system, however, is just so obviously over-designed it's not funny.  It's way beyond a mini-game anymore.

Consider the following, as an intuitive play test: how many can you answer (all in the Lorebook link above):

1. what's the difference between primary and secondary LI's?
2. what is a legacy?
3. what is a major and minor legacy?
4. what is a relic?
5. what tiers of LI's are there?
6. are there different levels for different tiers of LI's?
7. what does the forge master NPC do?
8. what does the relic master NPC do?

And so on.  If you actually start to read that Lorebook entry, or try to describe the system, it's ridiculous.  I'd rather learn more about managing my 401k than figure out how to craft new relics et al.  I'm saying this as a LotRO-luvver.

edit: Do they even auto-unslot your relics anymore every 10 levels and at cap?  I didn't think so -- I thought they stopped it, and now you have to buy/make scrolls to unset relics.  I lost all my major ones through a typical derp-deconstruct maybe 6months ago (and went on hiaetus for playing out of disappointment/disgust).
« Last Edit: September 28, 2011, 11:03:18 AM by Soln »
rattran
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Reply #65 on: September 28, 2011, 11:07:35 AM

Relics are permanent, unless you spend ?295? TP in the cash shop. Then it take one or some out I think. I'm just not slotting relics until I get a 75, preferably blue. At 72, I've gotten not a single 2h chimp weapon drop, so I'm still using my 65 2A weapon.
Rokal
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Reply #66 on: September 28, 2011, 12:52:08 PM

Do they even auto-unslot your relics anymore every 10 levels and at cap?  I didn't think so -- I thought they stopped it, and now you have to buy/make scrolls to unset relics.  I lost all my major ones through a typical derp-deconstruct maybe 6months ago (and went on hiaetus for playing out of disappointment/disgust).

They don't auto-unslot anymore, but the trade off is that it is much much easier to make top-tier relics now.

Consider the following, as an intuitive play test: how many can you answer (all in the Lorebook link above):

1. what's the difference between primary and secondary LI's?
2. what is a legacy?
3. what is a major and minor legacy?
4. what is a relic?
5. what tiers of LI's are there?
6. are there different levels for different tiers of LI's?
7. what does the forge master NPC do?
8. what does the relic master NPC do?

And so on.

The better question is: how many of these things do you need to know when you start using the LI system? I think the LI system works best if you don't over-think it and try to min-max or memorize the lorebook details when you start. You can learn about everything you asked above by just equipping LIs, leveling them, and deconstructing them. If you really want an over-view of the new system, check Azazel's thread below this one.
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Reply #67 on: September 28, 2011, 02:52:57 PM

1. what's the difference between primary and secondary LI's?
2. what is a legacy?
3. what is a major and minor legacy?
4. what is a relic?
5. what tiers of LI's are there?
6. are there different levels for different tiers of LI's?
7. what does the forge master NPC do?
8. what does the relic master NPC do?

I can answer all of these!

No Nerf, but I put a link to this very thread and I said that you all can guarantee for my purity. I even mentioned your case, and see if they can take a look at your lawn from a Michigan perspective.
Stormwaltz
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Reply #68 on: September 29, 2011, 07:06:32 AM

1. what's the difference between primary and secondary LI's?
2. what is a legacy?
3. what is a major and minor legacy?
4. what is a relic?
5. what tiers of LI's are there?
6. are there different levels for different tiers of LI's?
7. what does the forge master NPC do?
8. what does the relic master NPC do?

I could answer all of these, but I think your question was rhetorical. I'm a lazy participant in the LI system. I take things as they come to me and don't go out of my way to find "uber" things. I'm still using the Second Age staff I found in the early stages of Moria, because I haven't made a search for anything better.

Think of it this way. Leveling up an LI is no more - and no less - complex than leveling up your character. All of these questions are more or less analogous:

1. what's the difference between weapons and class items?
2. what is a trait?
3. what is a legendary trait and what is a virtue?
4. what is a class trait?
5. what sets of traits are there for my class?
6. what are the effects of focusing in different class trait sets?
7. what does the class trainer NPC do?
8. what does the bard NPC do?

Nothing in this post represents the views of my current or previous employers.

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"Sci-Fi writers don't invent the future, they market it."
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Rishathra
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Reply #69 on: September 29, 2011, 01:30:28 PM

The LI system really is only as complex as you want it to be.  Not knowing all the formulas and min/maxes and every little way you can squeeze performance out of your LIs does not hurt your character at all.  Do as little as you want with it, you'll still be fine.  And for the most part, they will still be a better deal than regular weapons you could get at your level.

The one thing I feel you shouldn't ignore is relics, even on a simple levelling item that you know you'll be getting rid of in a level or two.  Tier 1 and 2 relics are easy easy to get.  You can waste a few and it won't hurt your relic grinding in any meaningful way, assuming you are even relic grinding at all.

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