f13.net

f13.net General Forums => Lord of the Rings Online => Topic started by: Modern Angel on June 07, 2011, 08:14:44 AM



Title: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Modern Angel on June 07, 2011, 08:14:44 AM
http://youtu.be/HAZHEYmZzeI


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Riggswolfe on June 07, 2011, 09:49:04 AM
Wow I didn't expect to see it that soon!


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Modern Angel on June 07, 2011, 09:57:11 AM
They've been saying this fall for a pretty long time.

The pre-order bonuses are insanely awesome.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 07, 2011, 09:58:39 AM
Can buy with turbine points?


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Modern Angel on June 07, 2011, 10:02:07 AM
Dunno, haven't checked in game yet.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: HaemishM on June 07, 2011, 10:06:08 AM
The web site says $29.99 - $49.99 so looks like real money. The different pricing tiers are based on what pre-order bonuses you want.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Modern Angel on June 07, 2011, 10:41:31 AM
Even the base pre-order bonuses are pretty excellent. I mean, buying it now for 25% experience boost for the next 3.5 months? At the lowest price point? That's pretty awesome, though becomes less awesome the longer you wait... which is precisely what they're banking on.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Zetor on June 07, 2011, 11:04:24 AM
They're taking the hobbi-- oh.  :awesome_for_real:

75 is a big jump. I assume the 65 [and even 60] instances will still function as 'endgame' with the scaling wotsit? Speaking of which: I might be tempted to jump on this if turbine implements an LFG interface that works ...


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Ingmar on June 07, 2011, 01:00:36 PM
Even the base pre-order bonuses are pretty excellent. I mean, buying it now for 25% experience boost for the next 3.5 months? At the lowest price point? That's pretty awesome, though becomes less awesome the longer you wait... which is precisely what they're banking on.

Is it only for 3.5 months? The preorder page just says 'until level 65' so presumably it applies to everything under 65, forever?

EDIT: Bought it, because I am a sucker, and there's nothing I've seen yet about the time on that being limited.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Modern Angel on June 07, 2011, 02:13:47 PM
That's pretty cool then. Still, I bet the +25% XP goes live for everyone on expansion launch so investing early makes you a radder dude than the guy next to you who didn't preorder early.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Ingmar on June 07, 2011, 02:17:52 PM
Yeah I would expect you get it when you buy it regardless, stuff like that is typically designed to accelerate people to the new endgame level or whatever.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Soln on June 07, 2011, 02:30:20 PM
I might be tempted to jump on this if turbine implements an LFG interface that works ...

unless they say they're doing it, don't expect it.  I'd prefer a more PUG friendly experience than GLFF, but I guess it's working, otherwise they would have said something.

dunno if I'm going to play.  Haven't logged in since 3.2?  The end game is the LI grind, which is too much like (economic) real life.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 07, 2011, 03:28:11 PM
Seems you can buy it later with points ( No perks) , but pre-order is cash money.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Cheddar on June 07, 2011, 04:41:53 PM
Cannot wait.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Soln on June 07, 2011, 11:10:51 PM
so lvl 75, 24 man raid, new skills, but no new classes/races?  new virtues or just going to 11?  any more details than what's on http://isengard.lotro.com/?


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Ingmar on June 07, 2011, 11:25:01 PM
I wouldn't ever expect new races, just based on the lore. Unless we're going to be playing Woses or something.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: proudft on June 08, 2011, 01:00:38 AM
Ents.  Start at level 55, can only have 2 quests in the log at a time.   :grin:


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Stormwaltz on June 08, 2011, 01:38:22 AM
Someone made a decent case for Beornings as a race, but I don't see it happening.

To my own surprise, I didn't immediately preorder. I looked at the page, felt a profound ambivalence, and walked away. I'd like the full slew of cosmetics, but as a grandfathered lifer, I don't need anything else in the soopar-expensive version. Lately my enthusiasm for LotRO has been cooled, and it's difficult to justify the expense.

I still love the game when I have something to do, but after playing for almost four years, I don't have anything left to do. The last patch gave me two skirmishes, one of which is effectively unplayable for a soloing squishy class. According to Raptr, I've only played four hours of LotRO in the last month.

I'm hoping I'll get excited again closer to ship, as more details become available.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Tannhauser on June 08, 2011, 05:33:07 AM
Would have liked to have seen a new class, oh well.  Looks pretty good, but I will hold off.  I'm very surprised and happy it's coming out so soon, I figured holiday season. 


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Modern Angel on June 08, 2011, 06:21:31 AM
If you haven't checked the dev blogs, it looks like they're doing full blown redesigns of all the classes to make them easier and more functional hybrids. I'd take that over a new class any day, given some of the existing issues with ease of use in a lot of the current classes.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Zetor on June 08, 2011, 11:43:46 AM
Yep. Too many classes are locked into ONE role right now (I'm looking at you, wardens) and most others can only do two at most (and you're locked into the thing your spec is 'best at'... RKs may be an exception?). If there's anything to be learned from rift, it's that character flexibility = good. Maybe dual specs?  :awesome_for_real:

I'm satisfied with the captain redesign, for instance... all three 'talent trees' are distinct for each role, which they weren't before (other than the healing tree, obv).


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 08, 2011, 11:45:58 AM
Waite, what? That was one of the good design points of LOTRO, hybrid classes. Well before Rift or other games picked up on it.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Zetor on June 08, 2011, 11:52:30 AM
Errr, not really... WOW had some of those hybrids back in 2004, and I'm sure some other dikus (like EQ2) had them too. Warning: WOW parallels ahead.  :why_so_serious:

A champion is a damage class focusing on aoe. You can sort of tank, but it's the same as a 31/5/15 vanilla WOW warrior going into defensive stance with a 1-hander, ie. not that good.
A hunter can do damage and debuffs... not sure about cc (I don't have a hunter).
A minstrel can do damage or healing... when in damage mode it's just like a moonkin / shadowpriest / elemental shaman in WOW.
A captain used to be a buffbot with some healing and debuffs and bad (bursty) damage, which is just like ye olde ret paladin, with more tools. With the update, they can finally choose to be good at one role.
A RK breaks the mold kinda since they can heal and damage with the same 'spec', but they can't do it at the same time (which is understandable)
A guardian can tank OR dps, which is not that different from a cat/bear feral druid (who can switch roles mid-combat, even).
A burglar mostly controls and debuffs, they can kinda-sorta tank for small groups I guess.
A warden can tank. Damage is fine for soloing, but they run out of energy in groups and their damage is underwhelming anyway.
A loremaster is a wildcard, but they're a support/control character (unless they spec for damage, which gimps their control skills).

How would lotro be hurt by allowing dual specs or changing some of the classes I listed so they're at least as flexible as the RK or guardian?


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 08, 2011, 11:55:04 AM
Yes really.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Zetor on June 08, 2011, 11:56:12 AM
I like your well-reasoned argument.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 08, 2011, 11:57:21 AM
I had it years ago already.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Modern Angel on June 08, 2011, 02:12:08 PM
I'm a huge fan of LOTRO's classes but the notion that they're hybrids in the way that WoW and Rift currently define the term is stupid and wrong. Guardians can't actually do good DPS like a WoW Warrior or Druid can with a quick flick of the button. Minstrels sort of can switch well as of a couple months ago but to say their DPS was "good" for the bulk of the game's lifespan is just wrong.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Soln on June 08, 2011, 02:57:45 PM
I haven't found in the last year any problems with class balance.  If anything as a former raid minnie I'm jealous at how well RK's have taken over the main healer role. Regardless, people seem to be getting on quite well -- no need to hybridize classes anymore.  Unless this more about solo'ifying the game, which I also don't think is needed.  It's still an MMO -- just incent and help people to group more if it's a problem.

Re. new classes:  I was sure (?) they said somewhere with the next big expansion there would be new classes (plural).  Everyone for some reason has been going on about mounted combat for so long (which I dont think is needed) I just assumed they were going to add some Rohirrim special classes.  Along with a Rohirrim race of men.

So yeah.  Great game. Very glad it's doing well for Turbine.  But I'm taking a break for a bit longer.

EDIT:  why is this 25% exp bonus supposed to be a help?  Wouldn't it make sense to just lower the curve now to get everyone at 65?   I wish they would either lower the curve or get on with refactoring the other zones after lvl 20.  I just can not stand 35-45 (looking at you Evendim or Trollshaws) and it feels like its been that way since the launch of Moria.  (and I know they re-did Evendim: it still sucks)


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Modern Angel on June 08, 2011, 03:18:33 PM
New Evendim is awesome. You're crazy.

As I'm reading the proposed changes, they seem mainly like streamlining, soloizing and quality of life stuffing the classes. Redesign may be too strong a term but it's definitely more than just giving each class a pass, at least based on what we're seeing so far. Random example: Warden's getting a new on proc five move Gambit as a one button press sometimes, plus a force taunt that's not retarded. Or for Champions, making tanking dual wield with no need for a shield and turning that midway stance (name escapes me) into a +damage for AE stance.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Ingmar on June 08, 2011, 03:27:05 PM
Rohan has been a possible origin for Men since the game came out (not that the origin thing means much other than a title and maybe restricting your hair colors.)


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Tarami on June 08, 2011, 05:33:32 PM
Seriously, the classes in LotRO are one of the best things about it. They're all a little hybridy, kind of fuzzy around the edges, not really fitting squarely in any one archetypical role. A whole group playing their class, rather than just their DIKU role, to the fullest makes an enormous difference.

No, they aren't what other games call hybrids, but a game like WoW doesn't technically do classes. It does roles. Which combination of roles you can fill is determined by your class. I'm not entirely sure that is the definition of a hybrid, because it's close to entirely either-or. An Arms warrior is nothing like a Protection Warrior, even solo. Likewise is a Balance druid nothing like a Feral druid. You have other skills, gear, rotations, priorities.

LotRO does hybriding in a subtler/messier way. Speccing is more about reinforcement than redefinition.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Zetor on June 08, 2011, 11:22:23 PM
I never said lotro's class design wasn't awesome (in fact, I've said at least 4-5 times that their class design is why I am still interested in the game after all these years :p). That doesn't contradict the need for streamlined specs, more flexibility within classes, or multiple specs. I am also mostly talking about (harder) instances here -- you can do lower-level instances without a healer/tank even in wow just fine (I remember our 4-hunter 1-rogue gnomeregan run back in '04).

Example (and this contributed to most of my guildies getting fed up with the game, though Lothlorien was what broke the camel's back for most): the high-level 'mains' in my guild are 2 minstrels, a burglar, a loremaster, and sometimes a guardian. First off, this is 4/5 people, so we can't really do 6mans without pugging (and that just doesn't happen on Silverlode -- refer to my complaints about LFG), and 3mans without having people sit out. The group has a well-defined tank if we have a guardian, otherwise we are kinda SOL (we used loremaster pets, protector soldiers and burglar tanking / minstrel offtanking to not-so-good effect). Our damage is very low since the 'dps minstrel', the burglar and the loremaster are all support characters, and I [loremaster] can't spec for balls-to-the-wall damage without gimping my control, which is crucial for 3-man skirmishes and instances. This was also before the minstrel pass, so the 2nd minstrel was not able to do much at all.

Our alt group has two wardens, a guardian, a champion, and a loremaster. You can't really do anything outside of skirmishes (w/ herbalist pet/s) with this group; both of the wardens HAVE to tank since their dps is bad and clunky, the guardian has to use overpower stance... except he also wanted to be a tank and has specced/geared that way. Oh well.

This would be greatly improved if the classes had the option to be good at some of the things they do (like captains after their redesign), and be able to switch between these specs to best fit the group's needs.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Stormwaltz on June 09, 2011, 12:16:54 PM
Massively has a new article. Crafting to 7, virtues to 12.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/09/e3-2011-a-ride-through-lotros-rise-of-isengard/


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Tarami on June 09, 2011, 01:45:39 PM
Amped to 11.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Cheddar on June 09, 2011, 04:45:48 PM
Level 12 Virtues?  Freaking lame.  Was hoping for 15.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Azazel on June 10, 2011, 01:32:54 AM
How are they doing the mounts? 1 mount full stop or 1 for each character like they did with the Moria Goats?


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Rokal on June 10, 2011, 03:20:10 AM
One for each character and any you make in the future. Unless you buy the expensive version, in which case it is 3 mounts (and 3 sets of cosmetic armor) for every character and any you make in the future. I like the cosmetic armor/horses from the pre-order a lot, and getting some quest packs for free in-case I ever go premium was a nice bonus. I haven't read the dev diaries yet, but dual-wield tanking for champions sounds awesome. Tanking feels so slow and clunky as a champion at the moment. A true taunt for wardens will also be very nice, though it's something they should have thought to add years ago.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Azazel on June 17, 2011, 12:23:30 AM
OK that sounds decent. Anyone know the pre-order-bonus cutoff-date? I missed it by about 2 days for Moria.  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Ingmar on June 17, 2011, 01:28:20 AM
The outfits are really snazzy looking, they do a nice job with that stuff.

EDIT: BE WARNED however, the +25% xp is granted via a pocket item with no other stats, so you will be giving that slot up to get it.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Yegolev on June 17, 2011, 01:44:21 PM
EDIT: BE WARNED however, the +25% xp is granted via a pocket item with no other stats, so you will be giving that slot up to get it.

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/85916/angry_hedgehog.jpg)


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Rokal on June 17, 2011, 04:34:35 PM
I saw that as a plus, since it meant I at least had the option to turn the 25% off if I was leveling with a friend that didn't have the bonus, which is all of my friends since they are cheap bastards. I don't think I got a useful pocket item until maybe level 25-30?


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Stormwaltz on June 21, 2011, 03:53:41 PM
A dev diary on the stats upgrade (b/p/e, outgoing healing, etc.).

http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/devdiaries/1276-rise-of-isengard-developer-diary-new-stat-updates


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Ingmar on June 21, 2011, 03:57:15 PM
A dev diary on the stats upgrade (b/p/e, outgoing healing, etc.).

http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/devdiaries/1276-rise-of-isengard-developer-diary-new-stat-updates

Good, I wasn't looking forward to doing all the virtue juggling once I actually hit 65 and get my virtues settled.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Soln on June 21, 2011, 06:23:07 PM
dont know what to make of that.  A new stat for harder instances?  Feels WoW-y.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Ingmar on June 21, 2011, 06:25:16 PM
Seems like it is pretty much a way for them to support tiered raiding/dungeons/whatever without increasing levels. Monsters ignore more of your defences -> you need better defences to fight those monsters. So yeah, WoW-y in that sense. Kind of like a way to handle what radiance was originally doing but with more finesse.  :grin:


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Modern Angel on June 21, 2011, 06:57:30 PM
The thing is that the game is so broad in terms of difficulty that there's plenty of room for them to tweak things upward without leaving anyone behind. All those changes are basically great.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Soln on June 21, 2011, 09:03:21 PM
they seem to be planning to simplify stats, which is great.  I just don't know if introducing a "raider" stat makes sense.   I keep thinking of WoW's "resilience" is all.  We'll see.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Modern Angel on June 21, 2011, 10:02:15 PM
I'd only be nervous if it were in a game with the same raid or die mentality. LOTRO has so much small group content that they can toss shit to the raiders all they want. I don't mind a bit. In WoW and Rift everything is funneled to that raiding endgame. LOTRO's just different in that regard and I see no indication that they're changing things up (though I could see the new raid being 24 man making nervous people, um, nervous).


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Furiously on September 26, 2011, 10:56:50 PM
Released today. Patching now.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Modern Angel on September 27, 2011, 07:25:40 AM
Without parses I can't be sure but it sure as shit feels like DPS is up across the board. My Warden is wrecking shit at almost twice the speed and I'm Shield traited.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: luckton on September 27, 2011, 08:02:49 AM
Without parses I can't be sure but it sure as shit feels like DPS is up across the board. My Warden is wrecking shit at almost twice the speed and I'm Shield traited.

They did actually say in the Warden dev diary that Warden DPS was getting boosted so they they could do something other than tanking  :oh_i_see:

I started a Burglar...should keep me entertained until TOR comes.  I like the changes, so far.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: rattran on September 27, 2011, 12:39:11 PM
Champ has been completely redone, and is so much fun it's bound to be nerfed. All 3 stances have purpose, though Ardour is still meh. No Fervour healing penalty, massive damage increase, and bubbles! Fervour also generates less threat, so in a group last night I could just rock out, and not end up with aggro. Also, blade blocking in Glory I guess, no more heavy shield trait.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Modern Angel on September 27, 2011, 01:59:31 PM
All my friends are reporting that they feel like their dps is increased, no matter their level or class.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Soln on September 27, 2011, 03:02:33 PM
well, they gotta get their base up to the cap.  Or at least to Mirkwood/Enedwaith (if not Moria).  Makes sense to increase dmg.  Hope it lasts.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Rokal on September 27, 2011, 04:04:05 PM
Champ has been completely redone, and is so much fun it's bound to be nerfed. All 3 stances have purpose, though Ardour is still meh. No Fervour healing penalty, massive damage increase, and bubbles! Fervour also generates less threat, so in a group last night I could just rock out, and not end up with aggro. Also, blade blocking in Glory I guess, no more heavy shield trait.

I keep trying to activate flurry in Fervour stance, but it can't be used since flurry is now always on in fervour. Going to take some getting used to, but my champion felt stronger than he did before the patch.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Soln on September 28, 2011, 12:27:24 AM
checking out stuff tonight after a couple of months away, and revisiting the LI system and the new relic crafting system... pardon me, but with fresh eyes this is :roflcopter: level complexity.  How the fuck does the average, paying casual gamer get into this?   I'm sure it's great for my former kinnies, but this just seems way over the top for the average joe.

cf.  http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Legendary_Items_Guide


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Ingmar on September 28, 2011, 01:35:39 AM
It's not TOO terrible the way the game introduces it, but yeah it is still really way more complicated than it probably needs to be.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Azazel on September 28, 2011, 02:38:41 AM
checking out stuff tonight after a couple of months away, and revisiting the LI system and the new relic crafting system... pardon me, but with fresh eyes this is :roflcopter: level complexity.  How the fuck does the average, paying casual gamer get into this?   I'm sure it's great for my former kinnies, but this just seems way over the top for the average joe.

cf.  http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Legendary_Items_Guide

As a casual player, who only just hit 60 last night due to getting gifted 1/3 of a level worth of xp and finding that my LI dailies now give 5k xp, I've just been spending the points on my LIs and not slotting anything into them and pretty much ignoring the whole Byzantine system since I don't have the energy or patience to learn WTF is going on. - I've gotten into the habit of the LI dailies since they only take 10mins a night to do 2 runs, and I figure all that shit will be useful later down the line. In theory.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Tannhauser on September 28, 2011, 06:44:00 AM
I'm probably the closest to the resident LOTRO fanboy here, but I think the LI system is, conceptually, bullshit.  This is its third iteration and it's still confusing and cumbersome.  I try to play it like a mini-game.  I started Moria and farmed my LI's once they hit level 11.  By the time I hit 60, I bought a First Age bow off the AH and melted down my LI's and cashed out all the xp tokens I had saved.  Took my FA bow to lvl 29 and I was able to put Tier 6 relics in them.

Now soon, I'll need to melt down my FA bow and that enrages the Tolkien geek inside me. 

If I leveled up another class, I'd be tempted to just skip the LI system until I got to Dunland at 65.  They make fine weapons for 50-65.  As a matter of fact, I have a 50 captain that I may do this with.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Modern Angel on September 28, 2011, 07:05:21 AM
People messed with relics and min-maxing LIs before cap?

As I level, I basically just upgrade every three levels, melt down my current, jack up DPS on my new one and horde throwaway relics for cap. I'm not LOOKING at relics and stuff again until I hit 75 and have at least a Second Age.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Hutch on September 28, 2011, 10:45:11 AM
I'm probably the closest to the resident LOTRO fanboy here, but I think the LI system is, conceptually, bullshit.  This is its third iteration and it's still confusing and cumbersome.  I try to play it like a mini-game.  I started Moria and farmed my LI's once they hit level 11.  By the time I hit 60, I bought a First Age bow off the AH and melted down my LI's and cashed out all the xp tokens I had saved.  Took my FA bow to lvl 29 and I was able to put Tier 6 relics in them.

Now soon, I'll need to melt down my FA bow and that enrages the Tolkien geek inside me. 

If I leveled up another class, I'd be tempted to just skip the LI system until I got to Dunland at 65.  They make fine weapons for 50-65.  As a matter of fact, I have a 50 captain that I may do this with.


In terms of weapons, my experiences with leveling a warden (spear + javelin LIs) from 50-65 was that I could take a level-appropriate LI, spend points until the DPS trait was maxed out, and not find any quest reward or crafted weapon that offered superior dps. Plug relics of tier 4+ into it, and the LI is now competitive/superior on the stat buffs as well.

In order to keep this up, I had to be diligent about buying new LIs whenever I crossed a level threshold (53, 55, 57, etc).

This all may be moot now that Isengard is live, I haven't been paying close attention.

It would be less disruptive from a geek/lore perspective, maybe, if they hadn't called them "Legendary Items", and thus made the Tolkein nerds dream of a Glamdring to call their own. And (imo) the system would be better if you didn't have to do a bunch of research and/or draw a flow chart to figure out how to level up your relics. Having said that, it works, it provided me with nice weaponry all the way through level 65, and I never got emotionally invested in the lore behind it.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Hutch on September 28, 2011, 10:49:00 AM
People messed with relics and min-maxing LIs before cap?

As I level, I basically just upgrade every three levels, melt down my current, jack up DPS on my new one and horde throwaway relics for cap. I'm not LOOKING at relics and stuff again until I hit 75 and have at least a Second Age.

I messed with relics before the cap. I didn't strive to have top-tier relics, but the buffs you get from even mid-tier relics are pretty decent, and neither expensive nor terribly time-consuming (imo). Without relics, your LI weapon is just a dps stick. Quest/craft weapons provide stat buffs as well as dps, so the relics provide stat buffs that you can customize.



Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: rattran on September 28, 2011, 11:49:22 AM
I just ran a Warden up to 59 (almost 60) and haven't used a LI spear yet, better dps/stats on quest rewards. The fact that dps doesn't max on a 3A until ~level 22 now means it takes too long to level one disposable use. And I'm still using a level 54 LI javelin.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Ingmar on September 28, 2011, 12:54:56 PM
I don't recall seeing very many (any?) non-LI quest reward weapons on the run through Moria on my champ, other than off-hands.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Soln on September 28, 2011, 01:01:38 PM
I don't think there's much wrong at all with LotRO. I'm resubbing myself and Lianka, buying the expansion.  Got my brother even playing.  The LI system, however, is just so obviously over-designed it's not funny.  It's way beyond a mini-game anymore.

Consider the following, as an intuitive play test: how many can you answer (all in the Lorebook link above):

1. what's the difference between primary and secondary LI's?
2. what is a legacy?
3. what is a major and minor legacy?
4. what is a relic?
5. what tiers of LI's are there?
6. are there different levels for different tiers of LI's?
7. what does the forge master NPC do?
8. what does the relic master NPC do?

And so on.  If you actually start to read that Lorebook entry, or try to describe the system, it's ridiculous.  I'd rather learn more about managing my 401k than figure out how to craft new relics et al.  I'm saying this as a LotRO-luvver.

edit: Do they even auto-unslot your relics anymore every 10 levels and at cap?  I didn't think so -- I thought they stopped it, and now you have to buy/make scrolls to unset relics.  I lost all my major ones through a typical derp-deconstruct maybe 6months ago (and went on hiaetus for playing out of disappointment/disgust).


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: rattran on September 28, 2011, 01:07:35 PM
Relics are permanent, unless you spend ?295? TP in the cash shop. Then it take one or some out I think. I'm just not slotting relics until I get a 75, preferably blue. At 72, I've gotten not a single 2h chimp weapon drop, so I'm still using my 65 2A weapon.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Rokal on September 28, 2011, 02:52:08 PM
Do they even auto-unslot your relics anymore every 10 levels and at cap?  I didn't think so -- I thought they stopped it, and now you have to buy/make scrolls to unset relics.  I lost all my major ones through a typical derp-deconstruct maybe 6months ago (and went on hiaetus for playing out of disappointment/disgust).

They don't auto-unslot anymore, but the trade off is that it is much much easier to make top-tier relics now.

Consider the following, as an intuitive play test: how many can you answer (all in the Lorebook link above):

1. what's the difference between primary and secondary LI's?
2. what is a legacy?
3. what is a major and minor legacy?
4. what is a relic?
5. what tiers of LI's are there?
6. are there different levels for different tiers of LI's?
7. what does the forge master NPC do?
8. what does the relic master NPC do?

And so on.

The better question is: how many of these things do you need to know when you start using the LI system? I think the LI system works best if you don't over-think it and try to min-max or memorize the lorebook details when you start. You can learn about everything you asked above by just equipping LIs, leveling them, and deconstructing them. If you really want an over-view of the new system, check Azazel's thread below this one.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Cheddar on September 28, 2011, 04:52:57 PM
1. what's the difference between primary and secondary LI's?
2. what is a legacy?
3. what is a major and minor legacy?
4. what is a relic?
5. what tiers of LI's are there?
6. are there different levels for different tiers of LI's?
7. what does the forge master NPC do?
8. what does the relic master NPC do?

I can answer all of these!


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Stormwaltz on September 29, 2011, 09:06:32 AM
1. what's the difference between primary and secondary LI's?
2. what is a legacy?
3. what is a major and minor legacy?
4. what is a relic?
5. what tiers of LI's are there?
6. are there different levels for different tiers of LI's?
7. what does the forge master NPC do?
8. what does the relic master NPC do?

I could answer all of these, but I think your question was rhetorical. I'm a lazy participant in the LI system. I take things as they come to me and don't go out of my way to find "uber" things. I'm still using the Second Age staff I found in the early stages of Moria, because I haven't made a search for anything better.

Think of it this way. Leveling up an LI is no more - and no less - complex than leveling up your character. All of these questions are more or less analogous:

1. what's the difference between weapons and class items?
2. what is a trait?
3. what is a legendary trait and what is a virtue?
4. what is a class trait?
5. what sets of traits are there for my class?
6. what are the effects of focusing in different class trait sets?
7. what does the class trainer NPC do?
8. what does the bard NPC do?


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Rishathra on September 29, 2011, 03:30:28 PM
The LI system really is only as complex as you want it to be.  Not knowing all the formulas and min/maxes and every little way you can squeeze performance out of your LIs does not hurt your character at all.  Do as little as you want with it, you'll still be fine.  And for the most part, they will still be a better deal than regular weapons you could get at your level.

The one thing I feel you shouldn't ignore is relics, even on a simple levelling item that you know you'll be getting rid of in a level or two.  Tier 1 and 2 relics are easy easy to get.  You can waste a few and it won't hurt your relic grinding in any meaningful way, assuming you are even relic grinding at all.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Modern Angel on September 29, 2011, 07:59:59 PM
Yeah, I should clarify. I'll drop low level relics in leveling weapons. But I don't worry about any of the higher level stuff until cap.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Fraeg on September 29, 2011, 08:02:10 PM
well while waiting for the freeps to lvl I have farmed about 20 golds, 250ish dull stones etc. on my defiler and warg.

My r8 defiler just went from  :drill: to  :woot: :rock_hard: :inluv: :inluv: :woot: , my r9 warg got some love, but at this point the defiler is a lot more interesting to play.

Not sure how many of you spend much time in the moors, but it will be interesting to see how the ROI shakeup will change things.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Modern Angel on September 30, 2011, 01:24:44 PM
A few dudes were on the forums saying the noob creeps were hilariously bad.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Soln on October 01, 2011, 05:56:41 PM
Zero knowledge about the Moors.  Played only a few times.  Seemed to be the usual PvP Min/Maxer crowd.  How are you making coin?  What's supposedly new/changed?


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: March on October 02, 2011, 02:17:00 PM
Logged in to check some of the class changes and was surprised to find that I have to buy content/quests from the original box.

I bought both the original box and the Moria expansion (and have subbed on/off for years)... confused as to why I need to buy quests in North Downs; feels like I am being forced to buy something I already bought.  I can well understand having to buy content for expansions that I didn't purchase... but this seems not quite right.  Oh well, back on the shelf.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Rokal on October 02, 2011, 03:36:46 PM
Well, the detail you are forgetting is that you had to pay a subscription to access North Downs (or anything else in the game) when you played before. You can still pay for a "VIP Subscription" if you want access to all of the quests, otherwise you can buy quest packs for zones individually. For what it's worth, you still have Moria access.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Tannhauser on October 02, 2011, 03:59:08 PM
You're better off not in North Downs, it hasn't been updated. Go to Lone Lands, it has been and it's great.  I wish it was easier to tell what zones I own.  I own all of Trollshaws up to Isengard but not sure about zones lower than that. 


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Modern Angel on October 02, 2011, 04:34:51 PM
Lone Lands is open to everyone now, too.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Yegolev on October 03, 2011, 05:09:53 PM
I didn't know we had a PvM guy in here.  Maybe a separate thread is in order.  I can't seem to figure out how do do anything with my spider except die or follow a raid group around and then die.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Modern Angel on October 03, 2011, 05:21:39 PM
I don't really do much PvM at all, actually. It was just a topic I saw touched on as the rush of free noobs into the system made for easy pickings for Freeps even five levels lower.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Yegolev on October 03, 2011, 10:49:18 PM
Fraeg reached R8, so someone is wasting time on the moors.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Fraeg on October 15, 2011, 05:53:08 PM


A few dudes were on the forums saying the noob creeps were hilariously bad.

A lot of F2P questing for maps/etc. rank zero reavers going up against geared level 70+ Freeps who have played the moors for years.  Keep in mind that the r0 reavers have about 4 skills max.  The people bragging about killing brand spanking new to the moors r0 reavers are about on par with people who brag about hunting cows in a cow pasture. That said there are some F2P people who have paid to unlock other classes and are making an honest effort to *learn the ropes*.  PVM has not fully recovered from the ROI changes, people still gearing up their freeps, so too early to tell what long term impact the F2P reavers will have. 

Zero knowledge about the Moors.  Played only a few times.  Seemed to be the usual PvP Min/Maxer crowd.  How are you making coin?  What's supposedly new/changed?

Keep in mind the only thing you need money for in the Moors is stun/root/power/healing/fear/etc. potions.  Thats it.  Post-ROI quest turn ins give you infamy and money as well as destiny points.  The $$ drop rate on mobs was upped significantly.  The one dungeon in the moors The Delving of Fsomethingororther is a pretty standard place to farm for cash among other things.  My defiler has about 37 gold on him atm, which might be nothing for freepside play but is a lot of money for a monster player to have.  As for gameplay changes, they dropped the number of NPCs at bridges and some of the keeps.  The 900 pound gorilla in the room being that now Creep players can use Turbine Points to buy higher ranked skills.   So you literally see r0 players with r15 skills. 

However, that is counterbalenced by field promotions that you gain with each rank. With each rank a creep gains a bonus increasing your Health, Power, Damage, and Finesse.  So a r0 who spends oodles of Turbine Points to buy every single possible thing ($90ish IIRC) will have a hotbar full of snazy skills, but will still get crushed due to their lack of battlefield promotions.  The flipside to that is a mid-rank toon who really wants that certain endgame uber skill can now just go buy it. IMO too early to see how *Pay 2 Win* will shake out in the end.  I will say this, I had a stash of about 5,000 turbine points which I used to buy some skills for the warg and defiler, and then pimp out my mid ranked BA. 

I didn't know we had a PvM guy in here.  Maybe a separate thread is in order.  I can't seem to figure out how do do anything with my spider except die or follow a raid group around and then die.


My 2cp is that the spider is probably not the easiest thing to start out with.  I have a r4 spider and still really don't know what they are doing.  A high ranked spider has a lot of very cool tools at their disposal but the don't tend to be the straightforward *ugh me smash with mighty blow* type skills.  A BA or a Warg are probably the easiest classes to start out. Keep in mind (at least pre-ROI) you are cannon fodder until you rank 5 or so. 

Fraeg reached R8, so someone is wasting time on the moors.

r9 Warg, r8 Defiler  :why_so_serious: with a 26 mini, 17 warden and 7 burg.   I have the HD client installed and with everything maxed the PVE side gameplay is beautiful.  I haven't played Rift or Aeon(?), or any other newish MMOS, but LOTRO is by far the best looking I have ever played.  Toodling around on a friends lvl 50 RK looking at the epic questlines and the legendary weapons I can appreciate that they are doing some pretty cool things, and on paper skirmishes sound pretty cool.  That said it is 2011 and I am still being asked to Kill Ten Rats.  It was old on my human monk in the Qeynos Sewers however many years ago, and it is even older today (well duh  :awesome_for_real:) .  I log on my mini do a quest or three  then think *ho hum, i would rather be pvping*  /shrug

I don't know if any mmo has ever achieved *great pvp* and that is a huge can of worms to be even dancing around.  With that said, PVM in LOTRO is about the closest I have felt to what I felt in earlyish DAOC.  There is large scale combat, there is small group vs group stuff, there is 1v1 stuff... and there is you and your two buddies getting steamrolled by 24 mounted freeps all dismounting at the same time and blowing you up in seconds  :grin: .  When I feel like finding 1v1s I know the places to avoid, and the places to go looking for freeps looking for 1v1s and generally can find it. 

With all that said, I will definately be checking out Guild Wars II

hope that answered a couple questions.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Cheddar on October 15, 2011, 06:08:43 PM
That said it is 2011 and I am still being asked to Kill Ten Rats. 

One of the Isengard quests is literally titled "kill ten rats."  Goal is exactly how it sounds.

This amused me.


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Tannhauser on October 15, 2011, 06:28:47 PM
I shouldn't have played the beta, now that's it's live I haven't logged in in almost a week. 


Title: Re: Isengard trailer up, due 9/27
Post by: Modern Angel on October 15, 2011, 08:41:16 PM
I was surprised at just how engaging the new Epic stuff was. And I don't want to spoil it but there is some AWESOME shit in your early 70s involving Isengard. It tapers off but they sort of always do, since it's ongoing.