Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

[Tebonas]

So basically we are agreeing here? I can live with that! 

[Tannhauser]

Scaling sucks.  Sometimes it's fun to go in a low level dungeon and ROFLstomp.  Plus it's immersion breaking.

If Skyrim has this, it's going from Day One purchase to wait and see.  Got bored with Oblivion and Fallout 3 BUT devoured FNV. 

OMG we all do agree, hmm, better throw a troll-line out there.  Hmm oh here goes "You are all dicks for liking the same thing."
I bet that'll sting!

[KallDrexx]

I never felt like scaling in FO3 was bad, actually I didn't realize it had scaling till you said that.  The difference being that I actually feel like I"m getting more and more powerful as I level in FO3, and I"m having less trouble with enemies at higher level than at lower level (rather than the level of difficulty staying roughly the same as I level).

[rk47]

FNV had less scaling than F3...F3 wasn't that bad honestly because radscorps are a pain to deal, no matter what level you are. And if you're caught off guard by a deathclaw, you're automatically fucked.
But in Oblivion, there's really no sense of accomplishment when you cleared dungeons from early levels because everything is supposed to be 'managable'

A more glaring example is if you proceed to Kvatch the moment you left the imperial prison, you'll see that most daedras die to ONE hit from your basic iron longsword, which makes you wonder why the guards have problem with these at all, considering a guy who just escaped from prison with basic gear can clean the whole mess on his own.

[Sky]

Well, that's one thing that was great about Gothic/Risen. You could stick your nose into the wrong place, get it bloodied, and then have something to look forward to exploring once you got some gear upgrades.

Why bother in Oblivion, shit will just scale to whatever level you are, so why get better gear/level? It's bothering me just thinking about it, which is good since my resolve was wavering on Skyrim.

[Ingmar]

FNV had less scaling than F3...F3 wasn't that bad honestly because radscorps are a pain to deal, no matter what level you are. And if you're caught off guard by a deathclaw, you're automatically fucked.
But in Oblivion, there's really no sense of accomplishment when you cleared dungeons from early levels because everything is supposed to be 'managable'

A more glaring example is if you proceed to Kvatch the moment you left the imperial prison, you'll see that most daedras die to ONE hit from your basic iron longsword, which makes you wonder why the guards have problem with these at all, considering a guy who just escaped from prison with basic gear can clean the whole mess on his own.

Part of that issue is created by Oblivion's fuckstupid class/leveling system though, where if you set your skills up such that the ones you never use are your major skills, you can finish nearly the entire game without leveling into the double digits. The only things I remember that had level minimums attached were some of the Daedric quests.

[Lantyssa]

FO3 I only (painfully) noticed the scaling after adding Brotherhood, because the really strong type of Super Mutant suddenly started showed up, most carrying really powerful weapons.

[Sheepherder]

A more glaring example is if you proceed to Kvatch the moment you left the imperial prison, you'll see that most daedras die to ONE hit from your basic iron longsword, which makes you wonder why the guards have problem with these at all, considering a guy who just escaped from prison with basic gear can clean the whole mess on his own.

That's not actually the scaling system.  It's a hidden difficulty setting.

[K9]

I think this is quite impressive, some chap has printed and bound all the books from Oblivion into a single tome. It is pretty long.


It seems like a nice way to demonstrate some of the extra effort that goes into the game that isn't vital to gameplay, but nonetheless adds a lot of flavour.

[rk47]

Most of the writings came from Daggerfall and Morrowind. The Sermons of Vivec in particular is a mad attempt of a writer to insert fourth wall breaking truths into the in-game lore.

Oblivion? Not so much.

[Ironwood]

Like what ?

[Murgos]

Oblivion? Not so much.

Right, because everything must be new all the time and building on what has come before is strictly to be frowned on.

[Sheepherder]

The Sermons of Vivec in particular is a mad attempt of a writer to insert fourth wall breaking truths into the in-game lore.

Mad?  Yes.  Breaks the fourth wall?  No.  In case I haven't pointed it out often enough it's just Kirkbride as Vivec playing silly buggers with his imaginary worshipers.

[rk47]

Oblivion? Not so much.

Right, because everything must be new all the time and building on what has come before is strictly to be frowned on.

Especially when they are building it using shit bricks. Look, I won't diss the writing so much if the game actually made attempt to plant a decent lore for some quests.
Only two guild quest line is worth mentioning. Fighter's guild is forgettable shit. Mages guild made a mockery of the necromancer. Mannimarco? Hhahha. THIS is the king of worms from daggerfall? C'mon now. The dude doesn't even creep me out. He's just some generic dude I killed in a dungeon. And all the mundane inane tasks for the mage task is also shit. Terrible quests like those made good lore moot, especially when the mages guild accept a barbarian orc with 0 spellcasting in as the guild leader by hacking his way through the quest line.

 
 

[Sir T]

The Dark Brotherhood questline is actually pretty good in terms of atmosphere though. Especially when at the end of it I realized my original happy go lucky Argonian had become a total asshole and a vampire to boot.

[koro]

"Top Five Reasons Dark Souls Will Eat Skyrim's Face"

http://pastebin.com/ducT3ccW

I guess IGN saw the big troll article posted on Gamespy a couple days ago about how Diablo III should totes be an FPS yo, and decided that, by god, they're not going to be outdone with the stupid by their sister site.

I would post some quotes from this but good grief I have no idea where to begin. The title alone should be enough. It's even by another fucking Editor-in-Chief!

Edit: Pastebin'd the article courtesy of GAF because god dammit they don't need more page hits for this shit.

[Tebonas]

Everybody playing the Multiplayer angle to make his first point against a dedicated single player franchise doesn't deserve to be taken seriously anyway.

Are there even more stupid follow-up points?

[koro]

The whole article is stupid and pretty much everyone in the comments section in response to the original article is stupid. There's a lot of "excellent article, glad you're giving some good coverage of Dark Souls!", which is utterly ridiculous flamewar bait.

[Malakili]

No different than any other form of journalism.  Say something sensational and reap the benefits of lots of views/hits whatever.   Best you can do is ignore the noise.

[Sheepherder]

I wonder whether Bethesda's new in-house engine is actually just a fork of ID 5.  If it's the latter there's a good chance that network I/O is lurking just beneath the surface.

[stray]

I haven't read anything about this game, but I'm hoping they've learned to make combat more...umm.. fun. "Fun"? Is that a good word around here still?

I'm not sure who's involved in other games of theirs where the combat isn't bad (Brink, Wet), but I'd like to see more of that in an RPG.

I did it preorder though, in any case. I can't get enough RPGs. Even if they're shitty. What can I say..

[Malakili]

I'm not sure who's involved in other games of theirs where the combat isn't bad (Brink, Wet), but I'd like to see more of that in an RPG.

Bethesda published those games, but I didn't develop them.

Also, you should look into Deus Ex 3, seems to fit what you are after.  You likely already know that though.

[koro]

I wonder whether Bethesda's new in-house engine is actually just a fork of ID 5.  If it's the latter there's a good chance that network I/O is lurking just beneath the surface.

Which engine? The one used in Skyrim or some other different engine I haven't seen yet?

Because if you mean Skyrim, it's just a fork of the modified Gamebryo engine they used for Fallout with a different name.

[tgr]

Yeah, I thought we'd discussed that particular topic and come to the conclusion that it was just a modified gamebryo engine.

I think bethesda bought id too late to switch over to id tech 5, but I wouldn't be surprised if id tech 5 or 6 were used in future bethesda projects.

[koro]

I know someone from either Bethsoft or id (I think it was id, maybe Carmack himself) said that id Tech 5 would be absolutely terrible for a large open-world game like Fallout or an Elder Scrolls title due to the way the megatexture stuff works.

Unless the next id Tech engine is made with an eye for filling Bethsoft's world-design needs, I have a feeling we're going to be seeing the Skyrim/Fallout Gamebryo fork a lot in the years to come.

[Tebonas]

The Fallout engine doesn't look dated yet, either.

[koro]

Look dated? No. Play and "feel" dated? I'd say it's beginning to. I'd imagine its technical limits and the stability issues it's had forever and ever are beginning to really become a hindrance to development as well.

[Tebonas]

Its still good enough for a game that comes out in a few weeks. Starting a new project with it now might be an error in judgement, though.

[Sheepherder]

http://twitter.com/nickbreckon/status/14059634595729408

I would guess this means not Gamebryo.

[Sky]

http://www.gameinformer.com/games/the_elder_scrolls_v_skyrim/b/xbox360/archive/2011/01/17/the-technology-behind-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim.aspx

Bethesda went back to the drawing board and rewrote every major system powering the gameplay experience. The result is the newly dubbed Creation Engine and Kit.

They even ditched Ye Olde Speedtree.

[stray]

http://www.gameinformer.com/games/the_elder_scrolls_v_skyrim/b/xbox360/archive/2011/01/17/the-technology-behind-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim.aspx

Bethesda went back to the drawing board and rewrote every major system powering the gameplay experience. The result is the newly dubbed Creation Engine and Kit.

They even ditched Ye Olde Speedtree.

I never got the vibe that these games felt "alive" (as the article suggests).. they always feel dead and lonely to me (you could say Fallout has an excuse though). They certainly put a lot of work in the technology, but I guess "alive" to me lies in the story and characters. Or maybe I'm just a Bioware fanboy. Who knows. But I'm lookin forward to what they do there. "Radiant Story" sounds cool.

[Ingmar]

Bethesda has never done characterization well at all, but I think they made some decent strides with FO3. I don't have any particular reason to think they can't make more progress with this one.

[stray]

Bethesda has never done characterization well at all, but I think they made some decent strides with FO3. I don't have any particular reason to think they can't make more progress with this one.

Hmm.. I didn't realize they have 70 actors in this one.. including Christopher Plummer, Max Von Sydow, and Joan Allen. Those are some respectable actors. Not to mention Wonder Woman. Heh

Maybe it'll be more than the Patrick Stewart cameo in Oblivion. Seems like they got him to voice like a dozen lines, and that's it.

[Ingmar]

Well, Patrick Stewart wasn't the only Famous Actor in Oblivion - Sean Bean and Terrence Stamp were also in it, among others - so having respectable people isn't going to be the only factor, writing and direction matter just as much, which is where I think their actual weaknesses there have been, they just haven't made a lot of memorable characters, especially pre-FO3. Minor characters like Dukov (clown shoes!) can go a long way and Oblivion was almost devoid of even those. Even broad, cartoony characters are better than the avalanche of bland clones we got in Oblivion.

[stray]

Well, Patrick Stewart wasn't the only Famous Actor in Oblivion - Sean Bean and Terrence Stamp were also in it, among others - so having respectable people isn't going to be the only factor, writing and direction matter just as much, which is where I think their actual weaknesses there have been, they just haven't made a lot of memorable characters, especially pre-FO3. Minor characters like Dukov (clown shoes!) can go a long way and Oblivion was almost devoid of even those. Even broad, cartoony characters are better than the avalanche of bland clones we got in Oblivion.

Oh, I agree.. I just thought it was an indicator of what kind of effort they were putting into it.

But now that you say Sean Bean and Zod were in Oblivion, I have my doubts again. I would have never known.