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Author Topic: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers  (Read 238826 times)
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #525 on: July 16, 2009, 03:23:20 PM

http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=863

Producer's Letter

Quote
We’ll continue to look at improving the RvR campaign by better incentivizing Keeps that are defended and upgraded.  The plan is to base the value of rewards handed out on how many enemy players are present, and by the upgraded Rank of the Keep.  Players will receive a boost for both XP and RP, plus additional gold bags handed out for a successful attack or defense.  Now you’ll have even more reason to seek out your enemies for the most rewarding experience.

Fairly sure that was suggested here several times, otherwise it's encourages players to avoid each other and swap keep ownership.
ghost
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Reply #526 on: July 16, 2009, 04:32:39 PM

This is going to be too complex once they are done futzing around with everything.  Gold bags for defending or attacking means some sort of timer, I suppose, which means to successfully defend you have to stick around a particular keep.  So when the zerg zips over to the undefended keep when they get frustrated the defenders will have to stand pat to get their gold bag.  The whole system is a load of crap.
tazelbain
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Reply #527 on: July 16, 2009, 04:46:18 PM

Tacking on one reactionary, short-sighted "fix" after another is really no substitute actual design.  Seems obvious but....


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HaemishM
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Reply #528 on: July 16, 2009, 05:17:03 PM

It also seems a bit silly at this point to base incentive bonuses on enemy population, considering that if the enemy has too many people in the zone, the population cap hits them and they start losing members.

Typhon
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Reply #529 on: July 16, 2009, 07:31:43 PM

Wow, an ass-load of negativity on what I think are good changes.  I'd really like to play a WAR that can sustain some degree of fun that I had in WAR from 1-15, 1-20.  This is at least a start toward something worth coming back for.  I hope they can keep it up with the next couple patches.
ghost
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Reply #530 on: July 16, 2009, 08:46:14 PM

It also seems a bit silly at this point to base incentive bonuses on enemy population, considering that if the enemy has too many people in the zone, the population cap hits them and they start losing members.

Just make a requirement that in order to get a gold bag the defenders have to have between 25 and 30 defenders present for 30 minutes and that would be perfect   why so serious?
Ashamanchill
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Reply #531 on: July 16, 2009, 10:50:11 PM

Wow, an ass-load of negativity on what I think are good changes.  I'd really like to play a WAR that can sustain some degree of fun that I had in WAR from 1-15, 1-20.  This is at least a start toward something worth coming back for.  I hope they can keep it up with the next couple patches.

This is the first time that they have made the right decision in a long time.  I mean, old Mythic would have extended the length of the ccs, or had a picture of Paul's face show up on your screen yelling 'waaaaagh' every time you were disabled.  It's just a an extreme case of a day late and a buck short.

A poster signed by Richard Garriot, Brad McQuaid, Marc Jacobs and SmerricK Dart.  Of course it would arrive a couple years late, missing letters and a picture but it would be epic none the less. -Tmon
Falwell
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Reply #532 on: July 17, 2009, 12:41:54 AM


This is the first time that they have made the right decision in a long time.  I mean, old Mythic would have extended the length of the ccs, or had a picture of Paul's face show up on your screen yelling 'waaaaagh' every time you were disabled.  It's just a an extreme case of a day late and a buck short.

Bullshit, one good string of fixes / patches will get players attention, and that's been proven. AoC is doing it right now and these games were in almost identical states. Massive budgets, huge initial box sales, massive initial player loss, head honcho removal, great initial content with shit endgame etc. etc.

Points for the Barnett CC alert however.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2009, 04:39:15 AM by Falwell »
ghost
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Reply #533 on: July 17, 2009, 08:23:20 AM

AoC is doing it right now and these games were in almost identical states.

Just because 15 people on F13 gave it a go doesn't mean it's booming.  AoC is still pretty dead.  Now LOTRO, on the other hand.......
Modern Angel
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Reply #534 on: July 17, 2009, 09:40:27 AM



Just because 15 people on F13 gave it a go doesn't mean it's booming.  AoC is still pretty dead. 

AoC is more than fine now.
ghost
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Reply #535 on: July 17, 2009, 09:51:57 AM



Just because 15 people on F13 gave it a go doesn't mean it's booming.  AoC is still pretty dead. 

AoC is more than fine now.

It's really not that populated.  Chat consists of the same 20 people making sex jokes.  There's no sense in arguing about it though. 
amiable
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Reply #536 on: July 17, 2009, 10:55:29 AM

If they made it so I wouldn't have to do any boring PvE grinds to get PvP gear, I would consider re-upping to see the changes. 

Seriously though, we were telling them to do this eight months ago.  These are frigging OBVIOUS changes that any semi-literate person could institute.  Why did this take so long to imlplement?  Was it simply an ego thing, that the designers could not stand to be told that they were wrong and needed to re-jigger things?
Lantyssa
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Reply #537 on: July 17, 2009, 11:13:58 AM

As an educated guess?  Yes.

We had Jacobs here, and laid out exactly what they needed to do.  It was a pretty solid consensus, too, so it's not like we were giving conflicting signals.

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Shatter
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Reply #538 on: July 17, 2009, 11:14:49 AM

Easy, they made the inept decision to put out LOTD first rather then focus on the existing game in that time lost people quit out of frustration.  They can still fix everything in the game I have issues with but im still going to play Aion because of how long this sh*t has taken.  
Modern Angel
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Reply #539 on: July 17, 2009, 12:07:41 PM

LOTD first while Jacobs was at the helm.

Watch. I bet they start ramping up fixes to XP, CC and other stuff real quick. That doesn't mean they fix the underlying design flaws but it's going to be EXACTLY like Conan's trajectory.
Soulflame
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Reply #540 on: July 17, 2009, 12:31:08 PM

As an educated guess?  Yes.

We had Jacobs here, and laid out exactly what they needed to do.  It was a pretty solid consensus, too, so it's not like we were giving conflicting signals.

The horrifying aspect of those conversations was Jacobs' harebrained insistence on "scenario-less" alternative ruleset servers saving the day, when it was clearly "tier 3" or "Tor 'hell on earth oh god the knockbacks' Anroc" that were the issues.  Neither has been resolved, to my knowledge.  In fact, their attempt to deflect people away from running only certain scenarios, which was to put a time limit on how often the scenarios could be run, was to increase the amount of time people were waiting around for a scenario to pop.  Mostly because the other scenarios had bad xp/renown rewards for time spent, or were utter clusterfucks of design that no one liked.
Soln
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Reply #541 on: July 17, 2009, 01:54:19 PM

the fundamental difference is that with AoC you don't need an equal and opposite number of rival players to have fun.  So yeah my money would be on AoC pulling a LotRO than for WAR pulling an EVE.
Morfiend
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Reply #542 on: July 17, 2009, 03:15:47 PM



Just because 15 people on F13 gave it a go doesn't mean it's booming.  AoC is still pretty dead. 

AoC is more than fine now.

It's really not that populated.  Chat consists of the same 20 people making sex jokes.  There's no sense in arguing about it though. 

That's cause you are playing on Agony. On Cimmeria, its brimming with players. They are all over the place. Almost to overcrowding.
Threash
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Reply #543 on: July 17, 2009, 04:57:18 PM

the fundamental difference is that with AoC you don't need an equal and opposite number of rival players to have fun.  So yeah my money would be on AoC pulling a LotRO than for WAR pulling an EVE.

Also the fact that AoCs problems, while numerous, were very fixable (retarded loot, lack of content, bugs).  While WAR is simply a broken game that cannot handle enough people to be fun, the fact that they had to put a population cap on their new content just speaks volumes to the limitations of their game.

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Fraeg
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Reply #544 on: July 17, 2009, 05:46:55 PM


 I haven't played in maybe 8 months

Have they:

-fixed the V-card bug where the game only recognizes 1/2 your cards memory   Tantrum
-fixed or changed some magic setting so that large RvR isn't a slide show for people who, while well above the minimum specs, are not on the bleeding edge?

"There is dignity and deep satisfaction in facing life and death without the comfort of heaven or the fear of hell and in sailing toward the great abyss with a smile."
Threash
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Reply #545 on: July 17, 2009, 06:01:27 PM


-fixed or changed some magic setting so that large RvR isn't a slide show for people who, while well above the minimum specs, are not on the bleeding edge?

Yeah, they "fixed" it with population caps.

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columba
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Reply #546 on: July 18, 2009, 12:50:22 AM

The changes needed were blindingly obvious since launch.  The real problem is that Mythic tried to be all things to all people, never having the courage to make difficult choices.
Falwell
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Reply #547 on: July 18, 2009, 09:46:32 AM

LOTD first while Jacobs was at the helm.

Watch. I bet they start ramping up fixes to XP, CC and other stuff real quick. That doesn't mean they fix the underlying design flaws but it's going to be EXACTLY like Conan's trajectory.

Bingo, I have this funny feeling the departure of Jacobs and the push of...


those changes aren't a coincidence.



Tannhauser
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Reply #548 on: July 18, 2009, 10:25:29 AM

So now Mythic is coming, hat in hand, with fixes and improvements?  Har! 

I do hope they fix the game and make it amazing, but it's just too late;  Aion is coming out and many pvp folks will at least try that for a while.  The PVE is better than WAR's from what I've seen.  I'd like to see a new Mythic game without MJ; they do have great artists and writers IMO.
Modern Angel
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Reply #549 on: July 18, 2009, 12:02:33 PM

I have always said that I'll be the first to give them a pat on the back when they do something right. They're doing something right. That's good. It's to be commended. Mind you, it's okay to laugh about it happening all of two weeks after Jacobs gets shitcanned the same way it was okay to laugh about Conan doing the exact same thing two weeks after Gaute was.
DLRiley
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Reply #550 on: July 18, 2009, 02:16:32 PM

I think someone at Mythic is going to have a Age of Conan moment where Funcom realized that while their main gameplay (ganking) was cute the real dollars were in their under funded enterprises (pve). Thats the only way i see Mythic slavaging WAR, understanding that RVR regardless of incentive isn't going to save their game. 
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #551 on: July 18, 2009, 04:01:21 PM

At this point, nothing can save WAR.
Modern Angel
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Reply #552 on: July 18, 2009, 04:58:36 PM

Define "save". Depending on their costs and overhead, they can chug along with the subs they have, maybe less. How EA affects things is a different matter but in a vacuum it's fine. Not a raging success but enough to keep a company on.
DLRiley
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Reply #553 on: July 18, 2009, 05:21:34 PM

Save to Mythic is keeping the "WAR IS EVERYWHERE" kids happy.
Modern Angel
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Reply #554 on: July 18, 2009, 05:33:08 PM

Well, they ain't going to do that through more PvE. Ragging on them or not, those CC changes are a tremendous start.
amiable
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Reply #555 on: July 18, 2009, 05:35:51 PM

I think someone at Mythic is going to have a Age of Conan moment where Funcom realized that while their main gameplay (ganking) was cute the real dollars were in their under funded enterprises (pve). Thats the only way i see Mythic slavaging WAR, understanding that RVR regardless of incentive isn't going to save their game. 

PvE?  Are you serious?  PvE is the PROBLEM in WAR not the solution.  The designers massively f-ed up by creating a mandatory slog through their crappy PvE to get to the fun stuff (RvR).  You will NEVER out PvE the competition (LOTRO, WOW), the only way WAR will ever have a hope of getting any revenue back is to focus like a laser beam on RvR, encourage the elements that are fun and remove the elements that are not.  Hint:  They should spend some time analyzing why Tier 1 and Tier 2 RvR was terrific but the rest of their RvR game sucked.  
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #556 on: July 18, 2009, 05:43:35 PM

Define "save". Depending on their costs and overhead, they can chug along with the subs they have, maybe less. How EA affects things is a different matter but in a vacuum it's fine. Not a raging success but enough to keep a company on.

Save as in keep running, I think it's doomed, apart from the numerous other reasons, having fun relies on other players too much.  10 minutes waiting for a scenario to pop gets frustrating, so you stop queuing, so now it's 11 minutes for someone else, it builds and builds till the server dies.  So I don't see why the same thing won't happen when they only have one US server left.  Cross realm scenario queueing might have bought them some time a few months ago, but I think even that wouldn't save it now.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2009, 05:45:10 PM by Arthur_Parker »
Falwell
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Reply #557 on: July 18, 2009, 05:57:29 PM

As an added note to the above changes, it appears almost, if not all, AoE is getting it's damage reduced significantly from what people are saying about the PTR build.
DLRiley
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Reply #558 on: July 18, 2009, 06:15:38 PM

I think someone at Mythic is going to have a Age of Conan moment where Funcom realized that while their main gameplay (ganking) was cute the real dollars were in their under funded enterprises (pve). Thats the only way i see Mythic slavaging WAR, understanding that RVR regardless of incentive isn't going to save their game. 

PvE?  Are you serious?  PvE is the PROBLEM in WAR not the solution.  The designers massively f-ed up by creating a mandatory slog through their crappy PvE to get to the fun stuff (RvR).  You will NEVER out PvE the competition (LOTRO, WOW), the only way WAR will ever have a hope of getting any revenue back is to focus like a laser beam on RvR, encourage the elements that are fun and remove the elements that are not.  Hint:  They should spend some time analyzing why Tier 1 and Tier 2 RvR was terrific but the rest of their RvR game sucked.  

I know your missing the point. If Mythic had real balls then they would have stopped the progression at tier 2. But they didn't so here is what is wrong with the game. RVR is boring, not everyone who found WAR enjoyable in tiers 1-2 found it fun because you can steam roll people in rvr lakes, it was because you could pve and the scenarios were fun to play and was not treated as a method to grind xp/rr. When you hit tier 3 and finally tier 4 only 1 game type is supported by WAR and that is keep seiges. By that time you run out of pve to slog through and scenarios are blatantly only exist as a tool to grind. People avoided doing rvr because rvr is boring, and when you ask all 500k subscribers to bang their dick against a castles door or leave then it should be no surprised they left. Adding incentives to bang dick against doors keeps the current player base and aids in Mythics survival mode for WAR. Actually providing something else for players to do not only saves WAR but provides a playerbase rvr actually needs to survive. Age of Conan could have closed all pve severs and added full loot on death and would have kept 50k subs and paid the light bill that way. But Funcom decided that making money is kinda important so they decided that people might actually want to do something besides ganking each other. Fuck EVE supports a playstyle besides camping warp gates.
rattran
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Reply #559 on: July 18, 2009, 06:21:07 PM


I know your missing the point. If Mythic had real balls then they would have stopped the progression at tier 2. But they didn't so here is what is wrong with the game. RVR is boring, not everyone who found WAR enjoyable in tiers 1-2 found it fun because you can steam roll people in rvr lakes, it was because you could pve and the scenarios were fun to play and was not treated as a method to grind xp/rr. When you hit tier 3 and finally tier 4 only 1 game type is supported by WAR and that is keep seiges. By that time you run out of pve to slog through and scenarios are blatantly only exist as a tool to grind. People avoided doing rvr because rvr is boring, and when you ask all 500k subscribers to bang their dick against a castles door or leave then it should be no surprised they left. Adding incentives to bang dick against doors keeps the current player base and aids in Mythics survival mode for WAR. Actually providing something else for players to do not only saves WAR but provides a playerbase rvr actually needs to survive. Age of Conan could have closed all pve severs and added full loot on death and would have kept 50k subs and paid the light bill that way. But Funcom decided that making money is kinda important so they decided that people might actually want to do something besides ganking each other. Fuck EVE supports a playstyle besides camping warp gates.

Psycho.
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