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Author Topic: Warhammer ends quarter with 300,000 paying subscibers  (Read 115649 times)
Ingmar
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Reply #805 on: September 10, 2009, 04:19:04 PM

The SCT is pretty good about telling you what you got hit with these days too.

That's always been my biggest problem with GW pvp - the icons are too pastel and generic and they mix buffs and debuffs together, it is really hard to tell what is going on in terms of effects on you at a given time.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Nebu
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Reply #806 on: September 10, 2009, 04:19:27 PM

I generally refrain from calling people who don't piss me off retarded.

Thanks?

You're not supposed to be able to win a 2v1.  Strictly from a numbers standpoint if you are to assume all other factors are equal you should not even be able to kill another player in a 2v1, so really I can't help you there except to say you should try improving your situational awareness.  In even numbers matches you just need to be able to assess your situation fast and know the relative merits of escaping certain types of CC, because Blizzard is generally pretty good at dishing out CC equally to most classes even if it is absurdly abundant.

I've been playing pvp MMO's since there have been PvP MMO's.  I know how to pan, how to use my surroundings to my advantage, and how to manipulate LoS.  I also win 1v2 matchups on occasion in WoW on a class that I don't consider ridiculously overpowered (a hunter).  None of this has anything to do with the fact that WoW has too much cc in it for it to be a successful PvP MMO.  Apparently you think the level of cc in the game is fine.  I disagree.  Particularly in cases where someone can reapply cc in a relatively short time span with little diminishing return.  I happen to feel that CC immunity needs to be longer or the timer on the purge needs to be shorter.  Disagreeing with you neither makes me clueless nor retarded.  It just makes us differ in opinion.



EDIT: I read these forums to get away from the childish namecalling I find on other boards.  You people are all too fucking intelligent to regress to that level.   If you think I'm wrong, educate me.  I'm one of the few people here that will readily admit when I'm in error.  

  

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Ingmar
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Reply #807 on: September 10, 2009, 04:32:12 PM

Re: WoW CC, I play a class in PVP (protection warrior  DRILLING AND MANLINESS) that has a very large number of CC breaks, and I still get into frustrating situations from time to time. The biggest offenders are cyclone and polymorph to me, which of couse is because those are the ones I can only break with a trinket. I have an extra break for fear, I can charge/intercept out of snares, stoneform out of snare poisons, stuns typically don't last long enough for me to die due to being a giant pile of hit points, etc.

That said recent changes they're making to nerf back the CC immunity powers of beast hunters and enhance shamans says to me that the current level of CC is likely to stay the same. To me even with the moments of 'damn they got me' it doesn't feel very excessive*, but I played DAOC in the days of minute long AE mezzes while the assist train kills your group one at a time. Purge was on what, a 15 minute timer? And you couldn't get it without sinking a bunch of time into PVP without it? Good times.

*The bigger problems, to me, are how hard healers are to kill, and that the gear spiral is getting a little out of control again, especially weapon-wise.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Lantyssa
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Reply #808 on: September 10, 2009, 04:50:35 PM

EDIT: I read these forums to get away from the childish namecalling I find on other boards.  You people are all too fucking intelligent to regress to that level.   If you think I'm wrong, educate me.  I'm one of the few people here that will readily admit when I'm in error.   
Yet another reason to hate WAR.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Sheepherder
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Reply #809 on: September 10, 2009, 09:03:37 PM

I've been playing pvp MMO's since there have been PvP MMO's.  I know how to pan, how to use my surroundings to my advantage, and how to manipulate LoS.  I also win 1v2 matchups on occasion in WoW on a class that I don't consider ridiculously overpowered (a hunter).  None of this has anything to do with the fact that WoW has too much cc in it for it to be a successful PvP MMO.  Apparently you think the level of cc in the game is fine.  I disagree.  Particularly in cases where someone can reapply cc in a relatively short time span with little diminishing return.  I happen to feel that CC immunity needs to be longer or the timer on the purge needs to be shorter.  Disagreeing with you neither makes me clueless nor retarded.  It just makes us differ in opinion.

Hunter is actually ridiculously overpowered if you spec Survival.

I still don't see which class in particular makes you think that CC is wildly out of control.  Rogues are the most notorious, but they only have 10 seconds of stun in a fight that lasts under 20s, over half of which you can eliminate with a trinket use.  One could conceivably use blind or gouge, but those are generally not used 1v1 due to the abundance of DoT effects, many of which are applied by rogues.
Vash
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Reply #810 on: September 11, 2009, 08:32:55 AM

I still don't see which class in particular makes you think that CC is wildly out of control.

His point is not that 1 class in particular is out of control or has too much CC.  The point is that every class in the game has at least 1 form of CC, most classes have multiple forms of CC depending on their spec.  Then you combine that with the fact that CC just has weak diminishing returns (half-life with a short immunity after 3 consecutive CC's of the same type) instead of full on immunities to try and keep it in check.

While this system is fine and somewhat balanced in a small scale setting (assuming people have pvp trinkets) 1v1 to maybe 4v4 or 5v5, CC can really get out of hand in any engagement with more people than that.  The smallest BG is 10v10 and even with those numbers if your the unlucky sod who multiple people decide to focus CC on it can get unfun pretty fast.  BG's are the PvP most people like (not Arenas) so in that form of PvP it's easy to see how someone can consider the CC a bit crazy and overabundant.

You don't even really get to see the full potential of how retarded CC in WoW can be these days very often (and sadly it's still better than it used to be) because damage has scaled so much better than health in WoTLK it's just easier to focus fire and burst people down instead of coordinating CC.  Not to mention half the classes in the game now have a healing debuff.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 08:39:19 AM by Vash »
Nebu
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Reply #811 on: September 11, 2009, 11:00:04 AM

I still don't see which class in particular makes you think that CC is wildly out of control.  Rogues are the most notorious, but they only have 10 seconds of stun in a fight that lasts under 20s, over half of which you can eliminate with a trinket use.  One could conceivably use blind or gouge, but those are generally not used 1v1 due to the abundance of DoT effects, many of which are applied by rogues.

Ever face a rogue during those 2 minutes when a trinket is down... or hell, any other class for that matter.  It's frustrating to face any class without a purge.  In the BG's and WG, this happens frequently enough to remind me that too many classes have an overabundance of cc (again... my opinion).

As for hunters being overpowered, that comment surprised me.  I could destroy hunters on my warrior, my mage, my shaman, and my rogue.  Matter of fact, I'd go out of my way to target them in nearly every BG.  Maybe I just have an odd playstyle.   I have to confess that most people here know more about WoW than I could ever hope to.  I just know what I like/dislike. 
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 11:04:22 AM by Nebu »

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Ingmar
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Reply #812 on: September 11, 2009, 12:29:16 PM

Survival hunters were overpowered in pvp like 3 patches ago. They're not now.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Sheepherder
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Reply #813 on: September 11, 2009, 01:34:45 PM

Survival hunters were overpowered in pvp like 3 patches ago. They're not now.

So what you're saying is they can no longer burn through you in tank gear with a disc priest strapped to you? why so serious?

Which is completely ignoring the stamina advantage, CC resistance, CC abilities, and trap improvements they can spec into.  That being said, I still see survival hunters going from 100% - teabag in under ten seconds.

That being said, I should stop derailing.  I'll see if I can get screenshots from my next pvp adventure and put something in WoW.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 01:51:30 PM by Sheepherder »
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Reply #814 on: September 16, 2009, 06:02:38 PM

His point is not that 1 class in particular is out of control or has too much CC.  The point is that every class in the game has at least 1 form of CC, most classes have multiple forms of CC depending on their spec.  Then you combine that with the fact that CC just has weak diminishing returns (half-life with a short immunity after 3 consecutive CC's of the same type) instead of full on immunities to try and keep it in check.

To be fair, most CCs in Wow share diminishing returns with other CCs - for example, Stuns like Hammer of Justice, Maim, Bash and kidney shot all share the same DR - 1st stun hits for full duration (reduced by talents and meta gem effects) then the 2nd goes 1/2, 3rd at 1/4 (usually 1 second or less at this point) and 4th is immune. Even different CC types share DR - e.g. sap with gouge with polymorph, fear with blind etc.
Morfiend
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Reply #815 on: September 23, 2009, 11:31:31 AM

I would be really interested to see the server population numbers this weekend, now that Aion has been released.
Nebu
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Reply #816 on: September 23, 2009, 11:34:52 AM

I would be really interested to see the server population numbers this weekend, now that Aion has been released.

It will be a blip and most will return to WoW in 2-3 months.  You can quote me on this if you like. 

Aion offers a new visual with a fresh server race for ambitious guilds. As soon as a few guilds blow through the content and realize that it's a less polished version of WoW, they'll go back.  Aion will be pretty much dead about the time the next WoW expansion releases anyway. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Rasix
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Reply #817 on: September 23, 2009, 12:29:26 PM

I haven't heard crap about it in game. There hasn't been a single post on the server forums.  None of my friends are even trying it.

Personally, I don't see the point of DIKU MMO sidegrading (or downgrading depending on your point of view).  Playing Aion would just make me want to play WoW.  Same damn thing when I played AoC, WAR, LOTRO and EQ2.  All made me just want to play WoW again.

I think it'll be a temporary hit.  Magnitude similar to WAR or AoC launches.  Most will return for Icecrown.  But who knows, Kotaku and other places have sure been touting it's "HUEG PREORDER NUMBERS" and "OMG QUEUES".

edit: lol. I thought this was in the WoW forum based on Nebu's response.  As to WAR? Heh, I think the people left are dedicated enough not to care about new diku pvp.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 12:31:07 PM by Rasix »

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Hayduke
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Reply #818 on: September 23, 2009, 12:58:18 PM

I think the people who would leave WAR for Aion have already left a long time ago.  Not to say it won't have an effect, just that it won't be huge that this point.  But then I've never understood the mentality "I simply have to play a mmo no matter what it is, and I'm only playing this one till mmo X comes out."  Certainly not for a game like Aion which certainly isn't anything special.
ghost
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Reply #819 on: September 23, 2009, 01:02:08 PM

Yeah, it seems the WHA and VN boards pretty much emptied out after the last patch.  This game has a very heavy anchor attached and is sinking fast.  <6 months until it's done, I bet.
Nebu
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Reply #820 on: September 23, 2009, 01:18:22 PM

edit: lol. I thought this was in the WoW forum based on Nebu's response.  As to WAR? Heh, I think the people left are dedicated enough not to care about new diku pvp.

My bad.  I blame senile dementia. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Morfiend
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Reply #821 on: September 23, 2009, 01:25:42 PM

I would be really interested to see the server population numbers this weekend, now that Aion has been released.

It will be a blip and most will return to WoW in 2-3 months.  You can quote me on this if you like. 

I was talking about people playing WAR, not WoW. I think there is a decent sized chunk of players that refuse to play WoW, and they are currently jumping from one game to the next. Especially as Aion is billed as "the next PVP game" somewhat. I was thinking it might grab a chunk of players who are sick of WAR but refuse to go back to WoW.
Nebu
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Reply #822 on: September 23, 2009, 01:30:57 PM

I was talking about people playing WAR, not WoW. I think there is a decent sized chunk of players that refuse to play WoW, and they are currently jumping from one game to the next. Especially as Aion is billed as "the next PVP game" somewhat. I was thinking it might grab a chunk of players who are sick of WAR but refuse to go back to WoW.

My bad entirely. 

On that note, how many is a "decent sized chunk"?  Considering WAR's current sub base, I'd say a chunk is about 3.   why so serious?

I'm never going to make my career leap to comedy.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Morfiend
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Reply #823 on: September 23, 2009, 01:37:23 PM

In regards to WoW, I do think it will be a blip. Maybe say 100-150k users will leave for Aion and probably 75% of those will be back in WoW.

As for the Chunk, I would say probably 90% of WARs user base, and about 50% of AoCs user base make up that "chunk" of players who must be subbed to a MMO at all times, and refuse to play WoW.
ghost
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Reply #824 on: September 23, 2009, 02:02:12 PM

Don't underestimate the effects of graphics.  WOWs graphics are getting a bit outdated.  I didn't used to care, but after playing AoC and some other games it does really bug me now.  So it isn't really sidestepping to Aion if it is a graphics/PvP issue.  I'm not anticipating likeing Aion at the moment, however.  Seems to lack something.......
Sobelius
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Reply #825 on: September 23, 2009, 03:40:56 PM

Don't underestimate the effects of graphics.  WOWs graphics are getting a bit outdated.  I didn't used to care, but after playing AoC and some other games it does really bug me now.  So it isn't really sidestepping to Aion if it is a graphics/PvP issue.  I'm not anticipating likeing Aion at the moment, however.  Seems to lack something.......

I'm playing it and enjoying the anime-super-fast-whizzy-shiny-same-old-gameplay thing for what it is. There is some beautiful scenery. But overall the world is a bit "plastic". Get too close to the model of the pirate ship in the Asmode starting area and you see grainy graphics (as opposed to getting on a boat in WAR where the high rez textures remain quite nice). WAR's Land of the Dead has some amazing scenery, architecture and detail, and the night/day cycle there creates some cool ambience. (if you're interested, check out some screenshots I took when I got my new video card).

I'm sooo tempted to try out Fallen Earth just for the imagery since I played in closed beta with a much older 256 MB memory card and it seemed pretty "meh" at the time...

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March
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Reply #826 on: September 24, 2009, 08:08:09 AM

Don't underestimate the effects of graphics.  WOWs graphics are getting a bit outdated.  I didn't used to care, but after playing AoC and some other games it does really bug me now.  So it isn't really sidestepping to Aion if it is a graphics/PvP issue.  I'm not anticipating likeing Aion at the moment, however.  Seems to lack something.......

Yeah, I won't go on a limb with any predictions... but I would start from scratch to play a WoW clone simply for the graphic style upgrade... and behold, I am.  Whether the execution is tight enough to keep me playing is an open question.
Venkman
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Reply #827 on: September 28, 2009, 08:08:57 AM

Personally, I don't see the point of DIKU MMO sidegrading (or downgrading depending on your point of view).  Playing Aion would just make me want to play WoW.  Same damn thing when I played AoC, WAR, LOTRO and EQ2.  All made me just want to play WoW again.

Valid, and normally that's how it goes. But there's only so many times you can alt up in WoW. When you're at the endgame, can't play that endgame, and alt'ing up just means more characters at that endgame you can't play, time to see if the promise of DX10, more-integrated PvP, /music, personal quests, or flying can scratch the diku itch as effectively.
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