WAR to be released...

[Modern Angel]

@Modern Angel - I completely agree with this assessment.  I feel like Mythic delivered the product they SAID they were delivering.  It may not be what everyone wants, but it is what it said it would be.

I am coming at this from a guild-centered mindset, so my take on the game is biased that way.  Honestly it is hard for me to imagine people on forums like this who play MMOs today that are not in a guild, but I suppose they exist.  I would say that this game is Not for the solo player, and Not for the PvE lover.  WoW will beat it in both cases... for the foreseeable future.  Honestly the choice for me is not WAR or WoW, it is just WAR until Lich King.

Also, a reason that will probably only impact a very few people... this is the first game that allows a purely dwarf guild to be competitive in all aspects.  That alone is reason for our guild to play at release and find some fun.

I wouldn't overstate the solo thing. Instead I'd rephrase is as being geared toward "soloing while grouping". That sounds retarded (meaning that the suits at EA will want to use it because that's what corporate types do; pm to discuss core competencies plx) but it's truth. You can absolutely solo in the traditional diku manner. Want to solo grind some mobs? Solo some quests? Fucking go at it. But the Open Party system is so well integrated that you will blunder into 24 man Public Quest parties and RvR shenanigans that the hardcore soloist will almost not notice he's grouped. It's that impressive and easy to use.

I'm a soloer for the most part and I was constantly weaving between open groups and soloing as I did my thing. So while it's correct that the most fun is had in looking with one eye at the big RvR picture it's equally correct that you can solo pretty damned well.

[Trippy]

But the Open Party system is so well integrated that you will blunder into 24 man Public Quest parties and RvR shenanigans that the hardcore soloist will almost not notice he's grouped. It's that impressive and easy to use.

That was my suggestion

[ffc]

PvE in WAR is so abysmal I'd rather play EQ again. [...] It's an awful sense of drudgery and back-and-forth walking that makes leveling in Mulgore as a newbie Tauren seem pleasant.   

 

[Sjofn]

Hm, if they don't have a good way to make population imbalance not matter very much, I think a lot of DAoC people trying this game will go, "Aw fuck, I know how THIS goes" and not stay past the first month. It was that shitty on some servers. Like mine. :(

[Fordel]

Was everyone and their dog in Beta but me? 

[Rasix]

Was everyone and their dog in Beta but me? 

Pretty much.  Many laughs were had at your expense.

[Simond]

Hm, if they don't have a good way to make population imbalance not matter very much, I think a lot of DAoC people trying this game will go, "Aw fuck, I know how THIS goes" and not stay past the first month. It was that shitty on some servers. Like mine. :(

Like I said elsewhere, if Mythic doesn't come up with a fix stat, it's going to be a nice object lesson to the "whoo world pvp!!!" crowd exactly why peple were asking for instanced pvp with side limits.

[Draegan]

The PVE in this game is not abysmal.  It's the same as any other MMO.  I havn't done any of the top tier dungeons or anything, but if you like the pqs, then you'll love the PVE.  It's fast, fun and you can actually play for 30 minutes and get something done to progress your character.  I don't know why people say the PVE is awful.  If high end raiding the Sunwell in WOW is good PVE, of course WARs PVE will suck because nothing is as polished as Blizzard's polished and scripted endgame.

However on to something interesting:
The reasons why the NDA was in place so long, right from Mark Jacob's keyboard:

Folks,

Over the last few weeks I've been saying that there were three reasons why I was waiting to lift our Beta. As the time till lift approaches rapidly, I thought I'd get this topic started. Here are the three reasons:

1) One of the key concerns about WAR after we announced the cuts of the cities and the classes was how RvR would play out with the current class configurations. What I've heard from our team is that the classes we have currently are playing out quite well in Beta and that while we expect to continue working on them over the next month and beyond, that we did not need to hold up the game's release to put back/add classes. Again, I'm not saying that the classes are perfect, working as intended (even though I don't use that phrase), totally balanced but they are where they need to be now. Over the next month we will continue to iterate on them based on feedback from the testers.

2) Over the development cycle of this game one of the criticisms we have gotten (and frankly earned) was that our UI, combat and overall game responsiveness felt a little off and sluggish. We have been working rather diligently on that and we were in the process of putting in what we called our Combat Responsiveness code. Simply point, this is a system that makes the UI, animations and combat feel more connected, faster and of course, more responsive. When we put it in, the feedback from our beta testers was overwhelmingly positive (98%+). I wanted to wait till it was in and tested before lifting the NDA as again, it was one of the absolutely fair criticisms of WAR in the past. We will, of course, continue to work on this over the remaining month, we are not finished yet.

3) The final reason was one that frankly, if not resolved, would have been enough to keep the NDA in place and one that could have derailed the launch of WAR. Over the long history of DAoC, while we have certainly made our fair share of mistakes, one of the things that Mythic is known for is having one of the most stable MMORPGs in the industry. Whether it was our launch or even our limited amount of downtime, we are proud of our ability to produce a stable MMORPG platform. Unfortunately, in the weeks leading up to this lift, we were having some stability and performance problems. While a lot of the problems could be traced to our testing of new areas as well as the additional testing load in those areas, the fact remains that we were having more server crashes, crash to desktops and RvR lag than we were used to having. While even under those conditions the game was more stable than many MMOs, that wasn't good enough for me. Over the last few weeks the team has worked hard on these issues and our CTDs are way, way down and our server crashes are back on a level that is consistent with Mythic's history with DAoC. Overall, we're not all the way there yet but we have every expectation that we will be there in plenty of time for launch. Even as late as yesterday we put up another version to the testers that improved server performance significantly. I think it is safe to say, and I expect our testers will echo this, that the game as it stands today is more stable than most MMOs were at launch.

So, those were the reasons. I hope you agree that they were more than important enough to hold up the release of the NDA.

Mark

[Slyfeind]

Many many interesting diverse opinions. I'm looking for a new world to play in most of all, but it sounds like from the quest system, I wouldn't get to play much in the world; just orbit around the various hubs. This has been a worry of mine since WoW simplified questing and exploring. I was afraid someone would try to simplify that further, and now it sounds like it takes too much of the fun out of it. The PQs sound interesting, but it sounds like I'm being forced to group to have fun.

I like how they have crowd control, but very short duration. I like CC. It adds depth to combat. But nobody should be forced to sit for longer than 5-10 seconds and watch themselves lose a game.

I'm surprised they haven't solved population imbalance by now. They've had lots of experience with it, and have been studying it for a long time.

[Fordel]

Was everyone and their dog in Beta but me? 

Pretty much.  Many laughs were had at your expense.

 



How does the game run when you have a few hundred people on screen?

[McCow]

 



How does the game run when you have a few hundred people on screen?

Perfectly fine @ Highest settings/1680x1050 (6300 C2D @ 2.5Ghz  512 8800GT w 2gb Ram) and I'm an old Quake 3 120FPS junky. 

Re: quests.  I'm not sure I played the same EQ/DAOC as you guys. 

Cause farm this one mob 100 times over for rare drop where only 1 person in your group gets the drop then farm some random mob that spawns every 8 hours to level up your item  != Kill the first thing you see/Interact with something and everyone gets credit/"Hey! I'm Jon! Nice to meet you. Looks like you killed 300 dwarves + lamentation of the women!  Have some XP random guy I've never even seen before!"

Yes it's still kill the foozle. Yes, it doesn't break any ground.  But it's a way lower level of catass than found in previous iterations.

[Merusk]

  If high end raiding the Sunwell in WOW is good PVE, of course WARs PVE will suck because nothing is as polished as Blizzard's polished and scripted endgame.

It is, and yes it does because of that. However, the day-to-day PvE is nothing to write home about either. If you simply can't stand PvE on a regular basis, then no you're not going to notice much of a difference.  However, there is and it's HUGE.  Sly hits on a good bit of it in his musings.

How does the game run when you have a few hundred people on screen?

Like shit for me, but my vidcard is "unsupported."  It's a nvidia 7300le.

[Triforcer]

Simond- To clarify my earlier remarks- if you came at the game with the mindset "I hate PvP/RvR/Mythic/MMOs in general, but I am playing this game in case it just happens to be pure undiluted win that will cause me to fall to my knees, repudiate all my former opinions, and give Mark Jacobs all my worldly possessions" then you won't like it.  If you at least mildly receptive to PvP/RvR/Mythic/MMOs in general, you'll have a lot of fun.

Ergo, the unsurprising conclusion- people who hate everything won't like this game.  But if you aren't in that category, my humble opinion is- give it a shot.

[amiable]

I have a longer review I will post tomorrow, but I think your opinion of this game comes down really on how you feel about DIKU PvP.  If you enjoy Diku pvp, this is the game for you, if you prefer PvE or a mix, WoW will most likely serve your needs better.

I can not express to you my joy at being able to level solely via PvP...  it's great, there is no "wait until level x to have fun" about this game.  If you are trying to level via PvE in this game, you really are doing it wrong:  run right for the pvp zone and don't look back.

As for the Zerg comments...  it is a zerg if you want to participate in a zerg, there are plenty of other options for small organized groups, but if you just want to kill folk, you can join the crowd and relive the glories of Emain.

[Baldrake]

How well does the PVE part play solo?

[KallDrexx]

Hm, if they don't have a good way to make population imbalance not matter very much, I think a lot of DAoC people trying this game will go, "Aw fuck, I know how THIS goes" and not stay past the first month. It was that shitty on some servers. Like mine. :(

They did, it's called arenas (or scenarios or whatever WAR itself calls them)

[Trippy]

How well does the PVE part play solo?

Depends on your class.

[UnSub]

Some interesting reads, thanks all.

I'm going to wait and see for this. Let's see how launch goes, let's see how F13 judges WAR in 30 days time.

PQs sound really good, but I wonder how much longevity they add - are PQs going to be exciting for a little while, then the majority of them ignored and the PQ system resigned to a small handful of the 'best' (i.e. easiest and most loot dropping) ones?

[Trippy]

Some interesting reads, thanks all.

I'm going to wait and see for this. Let's see how launch goes, let's see how F13 judges WAR in 30 days time.

PQs sound really good, but I wonder how much longevity they add - are PQs going to be exciting for a little while, then the majority of them ignored and the PQ system resigned to a small handful of the 'best' (i.e. easiest and most loot dropping) ones?

PQs are only useful until you grind all the rewards they give out/you want then there's no point to them unless you just need to kill random things for the exp.

[Venkman]

How well does the PVE part play solo?

Like Trippy said, depends on the class. Bright Wizards are a good way to start WAR. Awesome for solo PvE, useful for group, and are good for PvP. They've been way over powered for months now, sliding between uber and merely op'd, so there'll likely be some nerfage.

In my opinion, WAR is the first real competition to launch since WoW. I'm sorta ambivalent about it but that could just be burnout from having been in it for so long. I think it's definitely worth a purchase and will keep people interested long enough to get into some scenarios. I still don't really "get" the RvR. It's fun in general, but no more so than the instanced scenario PvP, and can be a lot more messy and prone to faction and/or player-interest imbalance.

[bhodikhan]

It really is DAOC version 2;  a more polished DAOC with tweaks from WoW.  The animation engine is horrible ... probably a result of their purchasing off the shelf packages, unlike Blizzard, which codes most of the crap themselves.  You really need a beast machine to play this smoothly.  If anything, this will be the thing that keeps me from really getting excited about this game.

They've taken the Frontiers and put it on steroids. Every zone has a contested RvR area with keeps and objectives.

I've played my Shaman to level 17, and so far, I've been fairly unimpressed with the class.  Can't heal for shit, can't damage for crap in dps mode.  I have a level 7 Sorc that does 2-3 times the damage, than the Shaman spec'd in the dps tree at LEVEL 17.

Mythic has learned some things, but sadly, they cant get away from some of their old traits in class mechanics design.

It will probably be nothing more than a niche game for DAOC diehards.

The PQ's are a pretty nice idea. I really liked them compared to dungeon running.

[Draegan]

First, you're comparing a healing class with a magic dps class.  That's silly.

Apparently the PQs that are in the end game are for normal endgame stuff, PVE gear.  It'll get boring just as fast as WOW 5 man dungeons I suppose.

Also, here's a pic of the UI tool.

[Rasix]

First, you're comparing a healing class with a magic dps class.  That's silly.

It's really not.  Shaman damage output is pretty pathetic.  And sticking to a "healers to crap for damage even when specced for damage" paradigm is a great way to keep them scarce.

[Slayerik]

I have a longer review I will post tomorrow, but I think your opinion of this game comes down really on how you feel about DIKU PvP.  If you enjoy Diku pvp, this is the game for you, if you prefer PvE or a mix, WoW will most likely serve your needs better.

I can not express to you my joy at being able to level solely via PvP...  it's great, there is no "wait until level x to have fun" about this game.  If you are trying to level via PvE in this game, you really are doing it wrong:  run right for the pvp zone and don't look back.

As for the Zerg comments...  it is a zerg if you want to participate in a zerg, there are plenty of other options for small organized groups, but if you just want to kill folk, you can join the crowd and relive the glories of Emain.

This is what i was really worried about.

Diku PVP is ass.

Fuck, I'm basically screwed. Back to Eve I go...Ho hummmm

[trias_e]

Yeah, I've preordered it.  DAOC was tons of fun at 50, well, before buffbots were prevalent and not taking into account horrible population imbalances.  DAOC 2.0 I always figured this game to be, and since it is, I'll be playing.  A game with community, PQs, not solo oriented, can level through PvP directly 1-40...my hopes are officially up.

[UnSub]

Some interesting reads, thanks all.

I'm going to wait and see for this. Let's see how launch goes, let's see how F13 judges WAR in 30 days time.

PQs sound really good, but I wonder how much longevity they add - are PQs going to be exciting for a little while, then the majority of them ignored and the PQ system resigned to a small handful of the 'best' (i.e. easiest and most loot dropping) ones?

PQs are only useful until you grind all the rewards they give out/you want then there's no point to them unless you just need to kill random things for the exp.

In which case I expect to see the case of giant monsters or zone events in CoH/V repeated: once most players have got what they want out of it, they stop using it, so that multiple Deathsurges walk the zone and all the buildings in Steel Canyon can burn to the ground because the mass of players aren't going to get any new rewards for stopping them.

The top lvl PQ that still gives PvE rewards will be the one players spend the most time repeating.

The open group system - a reverse lfg tool, really - is a great idea. Points for that one to Mythic.

[Soln]

I haven't heard here or elsewhere any answer to how they plan to manage population imbalances for RvR.  Anyone know?

[Nija]

I typed out a bit on this today, I'm just going to copy/paste instead of making it pretty.

In short, I won't be playing retail. This isn't a surprise to anyone.


15:30:51 <@DeathKnight> overpowered
15:30:56 <@DeathKnight> nija
15:31:10 <@Nija> yes i am overpowered
15:34:07 <@DeathKnight> you playing warhammer?
15:34:13 <@Nija> retail? no
15:35:12 <@DeathKnight> http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/40783/Mythic-Lifts-the-Warhammer-Online-NDA#comments
15:35:16 <@DeathKnight> seems to be pretty positive
15:35:24 <@Nija> those guys are just fanboys
15:35:28 <@Nija> the game is very shallow
15:35:39 <@Nija> if you liked daoc you'll enjoy it
15:35:45 <@DeathKnight> never played it
15:35:53 <@Nija> its like the wow sport pvp crap
15:36:03 <@Nija> But no dungeons, no raids, no big pve bosses
15:36:13 <@DeathKnight> !
15:36:23 <@Dirm> yeah apparently the endgame in warhammer is pretty much just battlegrounds
15:36:24 <@DeathKnight> i played wow forever ago
15:36:35 <@DeathKnight> that sounds ok tho
15:36:37 <@Nija> there are some neat things in warhammer, dont get me wrong
15:36:40 <@Nija> And the game is polished
15:36:44 <@Nija> But there just isnt enough content
15:36:59 <@Dirm> isn't that going to be true of any new mmo though?
15:37:01 <@Nija> and the content and like, the general direction that they want the game to go, is shallow
15:37:08 <@Nija> doesnt matter man
15:37:11 <@Shinji> yes Dirm
15:37:21 <@Nija> i dont think thats a good excuse
15:37:22 <@DeathKnight> but nIja, we play FPS, the same map over and over
15:37:30 <@DeathKnight> isnt that shallow
15:37:32 <@DeathKnight> in a sense
15:37:39 <@Nija> yes dk, but we dont play 60 hours to have powerful characters
15:37:47 <@Shinji> what really matters is how much content there is in 3-4 months
15:37:49 <@Nija> and we have control over our characters to point and shoot
15:37:59 <@DeathKnight> i suppose thats somewhat true
15:38:37 <@Nija> okay but i mean
15:38:42 <@Dirm> or to just shoot, as in al-'s case
15:38:57 <@Nija> i could do this much better on vent
15:39:01 <@DeathKnight> haha
15:39:09 <@DeathKnight> im going to eat in a min
15:39:14 <@Nija> it's shallow in a different way than say conan
15:39:18 <@Shinji> MMOs should have enough content for 1-2 months at launch
15:39:19 <@DeathKnight> never did get that
15:39:24 <@Shinji> 1 for the hardcores, 2 for the less so
15:39:28 <@Nija> conan could have been epic BUT they would have had to change the foundation of the game
15:39:29 <@Shinji> and then add more after that
15:39:37 <@Nija> Shinji, the content never changes much
15:39:41 <@Dirm> pretty sure the difference between hardcore and casuals is more than a factor of 2
15:39:50 <@Nija> there are no instanced dungeons
15:39:54 <@Nija> no raids, nothing at all
15:39:55 <@Shinji> yes, but I'm just picking those numbers arbitrarily!
15:39:57 <@Nija> You go along your path
15:39:57 <@Nija> okay
15:40:00 <@Shinji> yes
15:40:06 <@Nija> 6 races, 3 areas, 1v1 in all 3 areas
15:40:11 <@Dirm> didn't it take us more than a month to get through lotro?
15:40:13 <@Shinji> well that sounds like they're intentionally going down that path
15:40:18 <@Dirm> though I guess we were slowed down by mort
15:40:21 <@Shinji> which does sound pretty lame
15:40:22 <@Nija> so in each tier, there are 3 different 'scenarios' and 3 different 'battlegrounds'
15:40:49 <@Nija> tier 1 is 1-11, 2 is 12-21, 3 is 22 - something, 4 is the top one
15:40:50 <@Shinji> lotro probably had a month and a half worth of content for hardcores
15:41:03 <@Nija> So you start off as a dwarf, say
15:41:07 <@Shinji> maybe one
15:41:14 <@Nija> in tier 1, you'll be in your area usually. you'll fight mostly greenskins
15:41:22 <@Dirm> apparently people like 5-man the rift now
15:41:37 <@Nija> soon as you hit tier2, you're WRANGLED down the zone path to an area that has chaos and empire guys
15:41:47 <@Dirm> wrangled?
15:41:47 <@Nija> so you have new friendly people to group with, and new enemies to fight
15:41:57 <@Nija> the zones are on rails
15:42:00 <@Nija> very linear
15:42:12 <@Nija> finish quest hub, get 3 quests  that send you to the next one
15:42:15 <@Nija> repeat forever
15:42:17 <@Nija> no exploration
15:42:34 <@Nija> anyways, you fight greenskins til 12, then you fight greenskins and chaos until 22
15:42:51 <@Nija> then youll end up in the 'somewhat open' area where all 3 paths converge, and youre fighting all three, add dark elves
15:42:59 <@Nija> then you do that for the next 20 levels
15:43:08 <@Nija> each scneario has a goal
15:43:11 <@Nija> and the goals repeat
15:43:17 <@Nija> like one might be CTF
15:43:20 <@Nija> one is capture and hold
15:43:25 <@Shinji> lotro just had no progression, at all
15:43:28 <@Nija> one is "murderball" where you get points by holding the ball, but it steadily kills you
15:43:47 <@Nija> But keep in mind, all there is to do ever is quests, which are all copies of other games, cause there are only so many types
15:43:51 <@Nija> and sport pvp
15:43:55 <@Nija> that is it
15:43:59 <@Nija> crafting is a joke
15:44:02 <@Nija> no exploration
15:44:03 <@Nija> no pve
15:44:09 <@Nija> you cant even really customize your char
15:44:21 <@Nija> so in the tier 2 area, there are 3 battlegrounds right
15:44:26 <@Nija> each one has a keep
15:44:35 <@Nija> if your side holds the keep, which is easy to defend; hard to assault
15:44:38 <@Nija> you can use the merchants there
15:44:43 <@Nija> each keep has 2 set pieces for your class
15:44:57 <@Nija> you have to have a certain "reknown rank" (pvp levels) in order to buy it
15:45:11 <@Nija> but if you have the reknown levels, but your side doesnt control the keep, you cant buy teh
                 good set pieces
15:45:20 <@Nija> there are 2 sets per tier per class
15:45:27 <@Nija> so essentially at each point along the way
15:45:41 <@Nija> there are only two graphic sets for each class youll encounter, best case scenario
15:45:49 <@Shinji> sounds like the game is destined to be a failure if they've banked on pvp
15:45:54 <@Nija> then youll be level 24 and wearing some awesome bird skull helmet as a zealot
15:46:01 <@Nija> Unfortunately every single other zealot has ths me fucking thing
15:46:07 <@Nija> the same
15:46:14 <@Nija> and yeah
15:46:20 <@Nija> they really limited the skills
15:46:25 <@Nija> way early in beta you could pick when you got what
15:46:34 <@Nija> So if you went healer, but you didnt give a shit about healing, you could put those off
15:47:01 <@Nija> some of that shit i had at level 12 you can't unlock until level 35
15:47:10 <@Nija> you're stuck with cookie cutter crap
15:47:12 <@Nija> that everyone else has
15:47:36 <@Nija> Dunno, i'm just annoyed. to me it doesnt seem like they are trying. nobody is trying to
                 makea  good game
15:47:48 <@Nija> everyone trying to maximize monthly sub money
15:48:53 <@Nija> then again i have access to an account with two very well geared max level wow guys
15:48:55 <@Nija> and i dont play that either
15:49:10 <@Nija> but man, war just covers one tiny area of wow
15:49:19 <@Nija> and wow is going to outpace that area with the next expansion for sure
15:49:57 <@Nija> war will pick up all the daoc fans, and they'll have thier game. i do like some of the things in the game, but it's not really worth my tmie when i think i have more fun/minute in tf2

[Fordel]

One of my larger concerns, was how sluggish the combat looked in videos. I'm glad to hear that was apparently fixed to some degree. I can not stand a unresponsive UI or slow controls. WoW has completely spoiled me in that regard. I tried playing DaoC the last time I got a 'come back to camelot' offer. I couldn't do it, was too clunky. I have a similar issue with LoTRO combat, it feels very 'off' to me.

In this regard, I sincerely hope WAR has ripped WoW completely off. 

[Sir Fodder]

I really really really tried to like this game. I had some fun at the beginning, but it soon wore off.

There is no world. Everything is a whistle stop on a guided tour. Explorers will be bored to death.

PQs are an interesting idea. However, they are a huge pain in the ass when no one is around to help past the first round.

Everything other than PQs in the PvE section is just boring. I would rather sit and pull mobs all day from a camp than run back and forth from quest/XP vending machines every 10 minutes. Absolutely nothing new or interesting here.

PvP is fun in spurts, constant zergs get old pretty fast. Catasses will have top end PvP gear, so good luck.

Crafting was slow and painful, although some of the ideas were kind of cool. I tried it several months ago and couldn't be bothered to even check out what changes were made, since the fundamental structure was unsound.

Combat is utterly uninspired and boring. Watch UI, Push button at appropriate time. Continue until mob is dead. Find new mob. Start again. Consider taking your own life.

It is just a shiny version of DAOC. Some people dug that. I fucking hated it, and won't pay to play it again.

Someone wake me up when a developer has the balls to make something non-DIKU or utterly derivative. Flavor of the month may generate some box sales, but once people get a look at the game, it will retire to a mediocre following and be completely ignorable, much like LotRO.

Level/loot based PvP is never going to be interesting. Catasses will always have the best and the shiniest. No room for innovative builds or strategic thinking or anything else. Grind Grind Grind your life away until you have more than the next guy, then kill him over and over again (and earn more renown/gear in the process).



Thanks to Mark and the rest of the Mythic folks for the chance to test things. I had high hopes for something different.


Pass.

Yep, pretty much my exact sentiments, stated better than I could. Only 2 factions instead of DAOC's 3 is a big minus also. Been in the beta for a long time now and the most fun I had was playing with the UI tool, whee. I've been well burnt out on this stuff though (could only stomach WoW for 2 months), and haven't delved deep into it. Got a really bad impression when first trying it out; kill foozles, do standard_quest_00, collect bug parts, repeat, etc... know that's probably not representative of the game as a whole but bleh, what a downer. Playing at 3AM MST probably didn't help either.

It'll do a little bit better than LOTRO subwise is my guess.

I really want to like it but mostly I'm just wondering if I should ebay my collectors edition as soon as I get it or wait a couple years?

[Rasix]

One of my larger concerns, was how sluggish the combat looked in videos. I'm glad to hear that was apparently fixed to some degree.

The responsiveness of the UI was fixed.  I don't see how that's going to alleviate what you saw in a video.

[Fraeg]

How much does it play like DAoC combat, both PVE and PVP?

How much PVE do you really HAVE to engage in to be competitive in PVP?

Is the PVE worth a shit or will it immediately feel like a grind because it's just like all the other PVE I've been used to before?

off a page or two but Haemeister 5000 has a general enough question for me to use for my take on things.   uhmm still   for some things that pisses me off because  (right about now trippy would say "stop talking about your elder experience :P)


1)How much does it play like DAoC combat, both PVE and PVP?
like others have said it feels like Daoc 2.0, and i mean that in a good way.  I liked Daoc, I liked WoW, I like this game.

2)How much PVE do you really HAVE to engage in to be competitive in PVP?
You can level pure pvp which, but as in any game the fastest way to lvl is pve.  The fastest way to lvl and gear up would be to run with a crew of ~10 or more people depending and just chain run PQs, going from one area to the next, you will gear everyone up and get fast xp.  when you all need a break you can join the entire group in the local pvp scenerio from wherever you are (none of this fucking running to the dude in org or thunder bluff to que, you can que anywhere to the local pvp scenerio).  So.. yeah there is a grind, but undless they do a *magic patch* of adding 50% more exp to level at release or some shit.  You will find this lvling to be wtf fast.   There will be many many lvl 40s within a month or two, and those won't all be hardcore catassers.  

As others have mentioned you can get something done in 30 min and log, given that  you have a clear goal in mind.  PQs are your friend, you want to do them, they are buttloads so you don't need to grind the same one for days on end.

To actually answer your question you can choose:  PvP/RvR is very bracketed (and in a very good way), you can just lvl pvp with minor dashes into pve and linger in a given sector for a decent chunk of time (you get xp in pvp so you can't make the lvl 19 twink and play him/her for years). or you can go balls out pve PQ;ing to get to lvl 40 asap and then focus on the pvp.  NOTE:  the normalizing of peoples lvls in pvp/scenerio  (i.e. at lvl 33 i run into a rvr zone and i am instantly lvl 36) doesn't change the fact that a lvl 40 will pwn a lvl 31 (well not always) but they did a very nice job of preventing bored lvl 70s raping lvl 30 people in Stranglethorn_whatevers_vale

3) Is the PVE worth a shit or will it immediately feel like a grind because it's just like all the other PVE I've been used to before?
this is a tough one for me to answer, because for me, in a game like this, pve is just to get to 40.... and fortunately that is pretty easy to do.  If you get harding just thinking about running the Black Temple or the Plane of Fear... then you will feel letdown by the pve here.  If you thought 4 hour corpse runs were the stupidest fucking thing ever, or if you felt that blowing 30g a night in consumables to help your guild *learn* the next big encounter as you did countless runs back to the instance in ghost form was like sucking stalins herpes infested cock-ring.... then you will like the pve in WAR.

Is the UI/response as snappy as WoW.  No. period.    But it has been better and better and crisper and crisper and i am pretty sure they know what target they need to mimic/reach.

How does it run:  in a guild poll of performance vs. sys specs.  People overall are doing fine,  40v40 battles are fine.  I am under the min specs and huge battles are a slideshow.... but given that i am under spec..  

Art:  i like the art, it is a bit more grim and frostbitten tr00 and kvlt than that other game (sorry for the BM terms)

Classes:  there are a bunch of em, and there is enough variety to have kept me more than happy for the past year.  Some where cut, i was bummed... it was not the end of the world.

...kk drunk and rambling, time to sleep and edit tomorrow.

[Tarami]

Many interesting walls of text to read, thanks folks.

A few of you have mentioned feeling boxed-in and a lack of possible exploration... how bad is it? Is there anything to see, anywhere to go that isn't strictly PQ/RvR territory? Is there a "backside" of the world can you can bum around in when you're not feeling like PvPing or whacking foozles?

[amiable]

As promised, my longer review:

What I do not like about this game:

1.  Interface problems – Adjusting the interface is a pain in the neck and everything seems too small.  It is difficult to click on a character box if you are healer and there is no “range-finding” to determine if the character is in range.  Key bindings are currently fubared and you lose 2-4 key bindings at random every time you log in, necessitating re-key binding all the time, even if you crash in the middle of a battle.  You cannot rebind certain essential functions (notably camera zoom and siege engine operations are attached to the mouse wheel, so if you are playing on a trackball or mouse without a wheel you are SOL). 

2.  It is hard to figure out where the hell to go.  The maps aren’t complete yet, and half the items you are looking for aren’t marked.  It’s especially annoying trying to find flight masters/renown merchants.  No one tells you where you can purchase higher rank renown gear (in keeps taken over by your side in T2).

3.  I would say 1 in 10 quests are currently broken.

4.  Annoying bugs, especially the players-can-sometimes-not-be-flagged-in-pvp-zones are very annoying.  Especially when such a player runs up and decaps your flag and you can’t do anything about it.

5.  Crafting – There is none.  At least none to speak of…  Everyone takes “scavenging” so they can loot their PvP kills for grey junk to sell to vendors.  Then they nerfed that so now you can’t even sell the stuff!!  And of course, the craft that uses the items you get from scavenging (Talisman making) is not in the game yet.  There is also no functioning auction house.

6.  Scenarios are fun and varied, but I imagine there will be a ton of /afk folks a al AV unless some mechanic to stop it is implemented.

7.  ***** BIGGEST PROBLEM*******Crash to desktop every 15 minutes on my machine since patch 3.3, it’s a total nightmare and makes the game unplayable.  This needs to be fixed prior to launch or I forsee crash and burn.  I run a decent system (2 Gig Ram 8800 GT) and I’m not the only one experiencing this, there was a 50 page thread on the beta forum with folks complaining.  As of this message they have improved it somewhat, but I still CTD a once every couple of hours.

What I like about this game:

1.   Despite class balance issues RvR is very, very fun.  They offer a lot of venues to play as well.  If you like balanced games in small groups head to the scenarios.  If you like open warfare head to the world PvP zones.  Most folks will probably end up doing both.

2.  It is the first game I played that made me WANT to be the best healer possible, as opposed to the best DPS’er.  While all of WAR’s healers are hybrids, the game really turns on good healing, and you are rewarded ample renown, loot and xp for healing your fellow players. 

3.  The game is great at drawing people into groups, and doing it early.  From level 1 you are encouraged to group via public quests and scenarios (which you can enter at ANY time).  It is completely hassle-free and teaches folk relatively quickly what their role in a group environment is by easing them into more an more difficult content. 

4.  You never have to grind to get to the fun part.  This is the biggest thing for me.  You can start at level 1 and hit the pvp zones/scenarios and level up SOLELY by PvP.  You earn enough money and renown to purchase good equipment from the renown vendors.  They have mechanic so low level characters are bumped up to an appropriate level when in a scenario or pvp enabled zone.  Running around in Tier 1 battlegrounds/scenarios was some of the most fun I ever had in a video game.  If you jump into this game and immediately grind to 40, you are doing it wrong.

5.  You actually feel like everything you do has a direct effect on the game world…  There is a bar present that constantly reminds you of zone control and you receive announcements/bonus renown/buffs, when you gain zone control.

6.  They have done a decent job on class balance.  Every class has a purpose and functions well at its intended role.  There are even some oddball classes/builds that are pretty fun (Engineer – sapper specced).

7.  There is an endgame, and a decent one at that.  It is mostly RvR related but there are a few endgame 6-mans worth checking out if PvE is your thing (I only had the opportunity to run one).   Nothing innovative on the PvE front (save for PQ's), but the PvP-objective based take and control system works well.

Overall Opinion:  If they fix the technical problems in a timely manner I think this game will do well, but not too well (but I could be surprised).  The general feeling I have is that someone over at EA said “Look, this game is releasing on September 18th, whether you like it or not so fuck the polish.”  That makes me sad, but I think the gameplay is interesting enough to pull it through if they keep working on it.  It is a niche game and it will greatly appeal to that niche.

[Baldrake]

So I understand that everyone's all gooey over the PQ's. My fear is that by the time I get around to playing, everyone will have leveled up, and it won't be possible to do PQ's in the lowbie areas any more.