WAR to be released...

[Oban]

Those screen shots really look like WoW.

Is that a custom UI to make it look WoWish or the vanilla UI?

[Miasma]

Preamble: I've only been playing a week or so and am not getting any characters past level ten or out of the first tier so that I don't ruin all the content by release so I can't speak to anything past that.

• I like the graphics, they strike a nice balance between AoC too photo-realistic and WoW too cartoony.
  
• The questing feels fun and well laid out, they are mostly race specific and directly related to the war so they feel more important than in other MMOs.  The xp gain also seems to be well matched to the quests, you get exactly what you need to be able to handle the next camp and are then sent there.  The quest dialogue boxes are huge and hideous.
  
• The loot from each quest is tailored to your race and class so you always get something useable if an item is a reward.
  
• It seems like every race has a little quest to use a piece of artillery which is fun.  I loved the greenskin area because I was able to catapult myself onto the dwarf fortress :).
  
• The RvR instance I did was small so that you were always quickly in the fight.
  
• The RvR area (which is just a fenced off piece of the zone) were much larger with more objectives and freedom.  I was playing a dwarf that time and we couldn't get very far as destruction had more people and guild groups bringing in other destruction races to fight us.  Players too high for the area turn into chickens so you don't have any high level ganking.
  
• I'm not much of a PvP guy so I don't really feel qualified to talk about it but what I did play is definitely the most enjoyable MMO PvP I've ever done.
  
• While there are a lot of classes they really just break down into the typical tank/healer/dps roles for each race so it isn't terribly overwhelming.
  
• The order city is a typical gray brick deal and doesn't feel terribly alive for some reason (despite me getting killed a couple times by going down the wrong alley).
  
• The chaos city however is probably the best fantasy city I've ever seen in any game I've played be it MMO, single player, PC or Console.  It is quite awesome.  You can only access some areas if the city's level is high enough, some buildings also require a high level guild to enter for some reason.
  
• The tomb of knowledge is very nice, it fills in lore as you walk by or kill things and keeps a record of everything you've done.
  
• Each area has public quests which are great fun, they are sort of like a raid but without all the bullshit. If you get enough people to complete it (which isn't a problem as you go along with the levelling) you get a chance at some loot. You are also guaranteed some loot if you run it a few times as you earn infamy and can buy gear with it. To try and explain it I'll tell you about a greenskin one. There is a giant running around being attacked by all these critters so phase one is to kill them so that giant can stop running. Then he gets tired and demands twenty barrels of beer to relax with and you have to pick of the barrels that spawn as you fight their defenders. Once the giant is drunk he stands up and walks over to this giant anti ship mine and picks it up. He carries it over to the dwarf fortress and blows a hole in the door so that we can attack. Then waves of dwarves come out to defend until you finally fight a boss dwarf. After it's all done you get a bonus based on how much damage/healing/tanking you did and everyone gets a roll between 0-1000. This means the people who did the most during the event have the best chance of winning since it is the bonus plus the roll that determines your score but even if you came in tenth if you get a great roll you can still win. You get a bag with a bunch of stuff in it that you can pick to win some of which will be green, blue or even purple.
  

• There is definitely a lack of polish in some areas, my heart sank when I saw the login screen it was so ugly.  Like DAoC ugly with these huge nasty buttons all over the place.  Even Mythic's new logo is really awful looking.
  
• Character creation isn't anything to write home about.
  
• Most of the vendors don't actually sell anything yet.
  
• The auction house and banking don't work although I imagine those were two of the things they wanted to fix before dropping the NDA so hopefully that will be enabled tonight.
  
• You don't get enough money to pay for your skill training as you level, I'm sure that will be tweaked.
  
• The destruction side always outnumber order by at least a 3:2 margin so I'm not sure how the open RvR areas will pan out.
  
• Combat is pretty slow.
  

I haven't had a chance to try tradeskills or play with the half dozen or so different advancement systems they have...

Overall the game seems like a lot of fun and will be worth playing up until the endgame I'm sure, probably with lots of alts.  I have no idea what the endgame will be like so I don't know if it will be worth playing past a couple months or not.  I've heard there isn't much of a PvE endgame at all.

[tazelbain]

Lot of good stuff in WAR, but the polish isn't up to what a AAA title should be.  The crashing especially in RvR, lack of even the most basic skill queue, the obvious archtype imbalances in PvP, obviously broken classes Magus and Bright Wizard, the missing tank classes are all frustrating.  Most of it'll be fixed eventually, but going to launch in this state is disheartening.

Public Quests bring zerg tactics to PvE    That said its fun with the open groups.


ADD A SKILL QUEUE MOTHERFUCKERS. ADD IT.  I don't care what kind of elitist game designer theory is rattling around in your head. It is negative fun to push keys and not know if they are going to activate or not.  Nor is it fun it have to watch your cool-down timer with a microscope so know when you can cast your freaking spell.  It really forces you stare at the hot bar instead watching the game.  Extremely tedious. ADD THE QUEUE.  It's a no-brainer.

[Rasix]

It hasn't been able to pull me in.

The PVE is Dark Age quality bad.  It feels slow. Mob AI seems prehistoric.  I don't see any reason for doing it and I wouldn't buy the game for this at all.  The only interesting wrinkle are the Public Quests.  They're a good idea and fun when executed properly on Mythic's behalf.  The ones that aren't are just another speedbump.

I've done some PVP.  Mostly just scenarios.  They can be fun in the way that WoW's battlegrounds can be fun although they have similar drawbacks.  You're teamed with random morons and random morons bring the disadvantages of being RANDOM MORONS.  Joining at a level where you need to be boosted up feels like you're starting at a major disadvantage.  They'll be geared better than you are as a matter of certainty.  The but they, like you, went through a similar grind and I suppose the cycle could repeat itself.

I haven't RVR'd much at all. I never really got to it.   But for those interested, combined with certain quests, it seems entirely possible that you can level and gear yourself completely through pvping.  You seem to gain exp and renown at a decent pace.  I do not know how this pace plays out at higher levels.

So, I feel like I have an incomplete feel for the game, but only because at this point it has failed to pull me in.  WoW, console games and reading have effectively competed for time in a genre where games suck me in and monopolize my time.  A very large portion of this is how the combat feels to me. It feels sluggish, it feels slow. The UI feels unresponsive although this has gotten better in recent iterations.  I had similar complaints about LOTRO although in a PVE only game this a more fatal impression.  It has charm and the art direction is really good once you look around and appreciate it. 

I have really conflicting thoughts about this title.  I think as a pvp experience it has promise, but I'm a bit worried about purchasing a game that hasn't sucked me in for more than 90 minutes at a time.  And I'm not really a pvper anymore and don't have a set crew to run this with. 

[Ingmar]

What tools do they have for dealing with the inevitable massive faction imbalance?

[kildorn]

I've honestly enjoyed testing it, and enjoy the scenario and open pvp, but I am on the fence. When up against WotLK and an onslaught of console and other games.. I just don't see that the better pvp than WoW makes it a better experience overall for me.

[kildorn]

What tools do they have for dealing with the inevitable massive faction imbalance?

They gave us cannons at the warcamps!

No, seriously, there seems to be nothing, and it's been a non stop destruction zerg since they started letting us pvp.

Oh, I know what they gave us. When you log in it tells you how many players are on both sides right now! :P

[Ingmar]

What tools do they have for dealing with the inevitable massive faction imbalance?

They gave us cannons at the warcamps!

No, seriously, there seems to be nothing, and it's been a non stop destruction zerg since they started letting us pvp.

Oh, I know what they gave us. When you log in it tells you how many players are on both sides right now! :P

So, wait.

They haven't taken any steps to fix the single largest problem in all of DAOC RvR? Seriously? 

[kildorn]

What tools do they have for dealing with the inevitable massive faction imbalance?

They gave us cannons at the warcamps!

No, seriously, there seems to be nothing, and it's been a non stop destruction zerg since they started letting us pvp.

Oh, I know what they gave us. When you log in it tells you how many players are on both sides right now! :P

So, wait.

They haven't taken any steps to fix the single largest problem in all of DAOC RvR? Seriously? 

Dude! CANNONS! 

[Morfiend]

I have been having a lot of fun with the beta. Consider me addicted. Unlike Cevik, I find a lot to log in for. Mostly world PVP and the Scenarios. I love the fact that at any given time I can queue up for a Scenario (a wow battle ground) some I like more than others. The Empire/Chaos t2 scenario sucks.

Overall the game feels like a melding between WoW and DAoC with a heavy design focus on PVP. There are lots of PVP quests, and the gear is not hard to get, and its fantastic.

The public quests are a nice touch, and so it the open party system. They have added a lot of little features that make sense once you use them. Like the ability to combine small parties in to one party. No more "ok, drop group and we will invite". There is lots of little stuff like that.

Also, coming from AoC the game just drips polish. Compared to WoW, its still polished, but not quite as much.

The lag in large sieges is very minimal. 100 vs 150 is completely doable with out the "OMG I CANT MOVE OR CAST!".

I will absolutely be playing at release, and I am very happy I have my CE preorder.

[Morfiend]

What tools do they have for dealing with the inevitable massive faction imbalance?

They gave us cannons at the warcamps!

No, seriously, there seems to be nothing, and it's been a non stop destruction zerg since they started letting us pvp.

Oh, I know what they gave us. When you log in it tells you how many players are on both sides right now! :P

So, wait.

They haven't taken any steps to fix the single largest problem in all of DAOC RvR? Seriously? 

There have been several things mentioned in Podcasts and interviews, but I dont know if I am allowed to talk about it.

[Miasma]

What tools do they have for dealing with the inevitable massive faction imbalance?

They gave us cannons at the warcamps!

No, seriously, there seems to be nothing, and it's been a non stop destruction zerg since they started letting us pvp.

Oh, I know what they gave us. When you log in it tells you how many players are on both sides right now! :P

So, wait.

They haven't taken any steps to fix the single largest problem in all of DAOC RvR? Seriously? 

Dude! CANNONS! 

I imagine the destruction side also have artillery it's just that you never get to see/use them since the bad guys are always beating down the final order outpost .

[kildorn]

What tools do they have for dealing with the inevitable massive faction imbalance?

They gave us cannons at the warcamps!

No, seriously, there seems to be nothing, and it's been a non stop destruction zerg since they started letting us pvp.

Oh, I know what they gave us. When you log in it tells you how many players are on both sides right now! :P

So, wait.

They haven't taken any steps to fix the single largest problem in all of DAOC RvR? Seriously? 

There have been several things mentioned in Podcasts and interviews, but I dont know if I am allowed to talk about it.

You can't talk about anything from the elder forums that hasn't hit warpstone. That's the sum total of the restriction. Off the top of my head and a quick skim, they ain't done shit on deathsword to address populations yet.

[WayAbvPar]

I really really really tried to like this game. I had some fun at the beginning, but it soon wore off.

There is no world. Everything is a whistle stop on a guided tour. Explorers will be bored to death.

PQs are an interesting idea. However, they are a huge pain in the ass when no one is around to help past the first round.

Everything other than PQs in the PvE section is just boring. I would rather sit and pull mobs all day from a camp than run back and forth from quest/XP vending machines every 10 minutes. Absolutely nothing new or interesting here.

PvP is fun in spurts, constant zergs get old pretty fast. Catasses will have top end PvP gear, so good luck.

Crafting was slow and painful, although some of the ideas were kind of cool. I tried it several months ago and couldn't be bothered to even check out what changes were made, since the fundamental structure was unsound.

Combat is utterly uninspired and boring. Watch UI, Push button at appropriate time. Continue until mob is dead. Find new mob. Start again. Consider taking your own life.

It is just a shiny version of DAOC. Some people dug that. I fucking hated it, and won't pay to play it again.

Someone wake me up when a developer has the balls to make something non-DIKU or utterly derivative. Flavor of the month may generate some box sales, but once people get a look at the game, it will retire to a mediocre following and be completely ignorable, much like LotRO.

Level/loot based PvP is never going to be interesting. Catasses will always have the best and the shiniest. No room for innovative builds or strategic thinking or anything else. Grind Grind Grind your life away until you have more than the next guy, then kill him over and over again (and earn more renown/gear in the process).



Thanks to Mark and the rest of the Mythic folks for the chance to test things. I had high hopes for something different.


Pass.

[Ingmar]

What tools do they have for dealing with the inevitable massive faction imbalance?

They gave us cannons at the warcamps!

No, seriously, there seems to be nothing, and it's been a non stop destruction zerg since they started letting us pvp.

Oh, I know what they gave us. When you log in it tells you how many players are on both sides right now! :P

So, wait.

They haven't taken any steps to fix the single largest problem in all of DAOC RvR? Seriously? 

There have been several things mentioned in Podcasts and interviews, but I dont know if I am allowed to talk about it.

I'm aware that they've talked in vague terms about using NPCs to balance the populations and such, but if none of that stuff is in at release, I can only imagine it will have pretty shitty results for their player retention. None of the things they did for DAOC helped my tiny Mid server, so if they're just going to be retreading that stuff, forget it.

[JWIV]

Way Abv Par hit my points better than I could.   Combat felt slow and chunky, and while it recently got a bit better, it's not better enough.  Public Quests are cool, the rest of PVE is the same spawn grind fest that you've seen before.  RvR is okay, better than PvE, but mostly just felt like a zerg fest.   Also, no god damn sidekick/apprentice system is nonsense.  I brought it up at the Baltimore  Games Day and was told to go level up - and sure, the leveling curve is better than some, but it's not good enough.   Why do developers not want to facilitate me playing with my friends?    I'll never understand it.


As a WHFB tabletop player, I really wanted to like this game, but it's failed to grab my attention and thus right now is sitting in the pass column.    I guess I should also say that a buddy of mine (whom I play WHFB with) is seriously gung-ho for the game and thinks it's the second coming.  He was also a huge fan of DAOC which I dropped also relatively quickly.

[MahrinSkel]

Tell me more about "High Level Guilds".  Guilds are entities in their own right, with game-recognized levels?

--Dave

[Kirth]

I find it fun. one thing I like are Open Parties, one of the better forms of group building systems (lfg tools) I've seen.

I've been moving/out of town for a while so I haven't been able to log in for over a week. I played a chosen mostly thru the last 2 builds (from level 1 - 22 and a templated level 30 one).

[Soln]

well, this make me    I guess.  Not a train wreck but not the real "DAoC The Next Generation" I was hoping for.  More like DAoC 2.0.  And we saw EQ2.0 ended up like.

So...

1. any deal breakers?  Anything to really not make you play *at all*?

And

2.  Any reason (other than catass) to play *now* as opposed to 2-3 months after launch so some polish and balance is there?

[sam, an eggplant]

1) I will be playing, so no
2) Like every other MMO, it's great fun to be in that initial rush before everything is spoiled and theorycrafted and all the thrill is gone.

[photek]

I've been in the beta for a year now and have mixed feelings about it. I have too much to say to summarize it, but at least they have done progression over the one year that was very good at some places, rather poor in others. Main problem right now is interactivity between players, players<->NPC's, feeling of combat, spells are boring and dull (hit for 200, hit for 100 gain 50 strength, hit for 150 heal for 50), there is no min-max damage, you swing for 150 on a guy, you will swing for 150 on him on all swings with that ability, PvP is not perfectly balanced, but is getting there. Also animations and sounds are sorta weak.

However, it has many good things, its not like AoC for me so it gave me mass appeal within the first 5 mins due to superfun combat system, but it is a game that can grow overtime on people. I think it will do ok, which is however less than I expected. I really wish they went more WoW 2.0-esque in one term which would save them a lot and that is feeling and flow.

[Mrbloodworth]

Character creation

Those screen shots really look like WoW.

Is that a custom UI to make it look WoWish or the vanilla UI?

There is more fidelity in the textures than in Wow, so i disagree. Over all style? To a point. No clue about the UI.

[McCow]

I've been in beta for a while now.  I find it fun.  I have stuck with the healer classes though I dabbled with the Chosen and the Sorcs.  

The game is DAOC RvR with netcode that doesn't suck and without CC that makes ice ages look quick.  

The classes feel very good though there are a lot of them.   There still are some balance issues between different sides (Runepriests vs Zealot is one example).  Healing is done mostly via the AoC style of HOT's though there are some big heals.  Kudo's to Mythic for finally getting the Tank class right.  (Think Debuffer/CC'er).  

Keep takes/RvR objectives are fun.  The ram for the doors is a fun little mini-game.   The collision mechanic during a zerg of the lord room is going to be frustrating until people figure it out.  Keep defence may suffer from DAOC "why bother to defend syndrome".  I didn't see anyone really defending keeps.

Some of the Scenarios feel tacked on.  The ability to join them from anywhere, and get dropped back exactly where you were when you entered the scenario is a nice touch.

The world design feels solid.  They have done an adequate job of trying to keep the fights focused in certain areas though there are a lot of open world areas that feel rather sparse.  The pager system (ie: fight is happening here) is ok.  

Groups by default are "open" meaning anyone can join but it is very easily turned off.  This is a great mechanic on many levels.  

Public Quests are a good mechanic but the influence grinding can get boring (influence is Chapter XP.  Three different level awards are available.  Each time you pass the watermark you can pick from an item).  The PQ's that I enjoy are the ones that are the "head to head" type where both Order and Destruction compete to "win" the public quest and open the next stage for your side.   Keep in mind these take place in PvE area's but you are free to RvR if you decide to flag up.   From what I have seen most people do flag and that makes for quite the hectic experience.  I do give them a nod for making PvE relatively fun and another nod for making the PQ rewards class specific.  

RvR is going to be interesting.  It's not a solo game at all.  Many of the classes have very interesting synergies in their skill lines and it should be interesting to see some of the tactics that arrive.

[Merusk]

So I see this thread and think, "Fuck me two pages since lunch?" Oh.. the NDA dropped.

Yeah.  Guess I'll read before posting full thoughts, but I cancelled my preorder.  I won't be subbing as the game has failed to pull me in at all.  It feels more lackluster than DAoC ever did, and that game really failed to move me in any real way, I just wanted to be "Done" with EQ.  Yet I continued playing EQ in favor of DAoC.

Hrm. Now to read. 

[Simond]

So...basically, this is going to get maybe EQ2 numbers then? "It's all about the PvP" isn't much of a selling point when the giant in the playground is adding a (non-instanced) PvP zone and siege engines/war machines in its next expansion to go with its existing instanced battlegrounds, arenas and world PvP.

It worked, sort of, for DAoC because its main rival only made occasional token gestures towards PvP (usually just before a PvP-orientated competitor was due to launch  ); but "Orcs/evil elves/etc vs humans/dwarves/good elves in a cartoonish high fantasy world with both PvP and PvE" might be a slightly competitive part of the market to enter, no? (And cue the "I hope you like words" PA comic).

Besides, Blizzard is going to blatantly steal (and improve upon) the best ideas from WAR in the next year or so anyway. It's what they do.

[Triforcer]

I only had a few days of beta, but count me in as having the same opinion as Morfiend.  Absolutely awesome.  This board's comments confirm my theory that if you like RvR games, you'll love this.  If you don't, you'll hate it.  Its not going to pull anyone across the divide, but if you are on the "love" side of the divide to begin with, its a can't-miss.

[Simond]

Please define "RvR game"

[Hawkbit]

One of the things I'm concerned about is maintaining a healthy server population.  At the times when there's 1000 people on my server, it's simply too few people to really accomplish anything noteworthy.  Most PQs require a group to go for loot and more often than not I simply couldn't get enough people together to shoot for loot.  

With pop numbers at 1000, there's also too few people to defend/take keeps.  

Maybe having 3-5k at all times might work, but for most rvr I suspect it will be a peak hours thing.  

[Mrbloodworth]

Please define "RvR game"

Can't, Copyright.





lol.

[Merusk]

Ok all read-up on the thread (until you guys post tons as I write this.)

I agree with Way and Tazel and Cevik.  The game just doesn't inspire me to play it at all.

Now,  I know some of you hate PvE and DIKU as a whole, so you dismiss anything even remotely touching it.  However I still find it fun after all these years of Mudding and EQ etc. (Fuck worlds, remember?)  That said, the PvE in WAR is so abysmal I'd rather play EQ again.  It's horrible.  It's like someone heard about WoW's quest system and designed from that, rather than experiencing it. Fuck, even WUA kind of enjoyed leveling-up in WoW.

In WAR the 'hubs' take all the quests for an area and spread them out to 3 or 4 'camps' and then parcel them so that there's 3-5 you can do at a time.  That's it.. you do your 3-5 quests, then go back to the hub you're working from.  There may be a series of two or three quests from the same giver but after that you move on to the next hub and repeat it.  It's an awful sense of drudgery and back-and-forth walking that makes leveling in Mulgore as a newbie Tauren seem pleasant.   

Not to mention, it hand-holds to a level that makes you wonder why there's not just a series of buttons labeled "give xp" along a path.  Yes, I know this is said of WoW but it takes it to the Nth degree, highlighting mob spawn areas on your map and barely even giving you passable quest text.  You think the quest text in WoW sucks, but you haven't read WAR's.   Couple that with only a few quests to be done at a time and you really really hate the PvE leveling process.

Now: As to "Why should I buy it now?"  One reason: Public Quests.

 These are great fun if you're in a zone with a very large group.  There's 3 phases to each one, usually a "Kill x mobs" to move to phase 2 which is "Kill x "Champion" mobs OR "protect abc for x time."  Then you hit phase 3 in which the "Hero" mob spawns and you take him down.  After he dies, loot is awarded to a number of folks who partook, depending on rolls.  The amount of people rewarded seems linked to how many were doing the PQ.  I did some where only 3 people won loot and some where about 5 won loot.

 The #1 roll gets a "blue loot bag" and the lesser folks get "green loot bags" you can pick an item or a cash reward from a list.  It's a nifty feature since you get to pick what YOU feel is useful instead of being at the mercy of the RNG.  You're awarded a "roll bonus" based on your contribution. I assume it's some mix of damage and healing" but it seems that Phase 3 matters the most for this bonus. You can AFK your way to P3 then wail the fuck out of the Hero (hoping you don't aggro as you'll die in 1-3 hits as anything but a "tank" class) and take the #1 contrib spot.  I know, because I did this several times when things were wiped. 

However!   Since I didn't play much, I found that "the zerg" leveled beyond the PQs I was able to do very quickly.  This means that I was left trying to kill 70 mobs for phase one of some quests with only 3-4 other people at times. This takes a long, long time as you can imagine.  Then, at the "Phase 2" part we were stuck.  It was unusual to have a tank in that mix of people, and even if we did there was not typically a healer.  (this hurts more on the races that don't have tank or healer classes anymore, obviously) So we weren't able to kill the "Champ" level spawns.

Even when there were enough of us to do this, we had no chance against the "Hero" level spawn of P3.  So it became a choice of "sit around and wait for 10 mis for the phase to end", "move on to another area" or "quit and play something else" More often than not I made that last choice.

Now to post and see what else has been posted/ asked about.

[Modern Angel]

It's going to boil down to this: is it like WoW and is that a good thing for you? Then it comes with a side of Do you like pvp?

Because it *is* like WoW. It reinvents nothing from a basic gameplay mechanic. It's autoattack/global cooldown/mash light up button Skinner box gameplay. If that bugs you or if you think WoW can not possibly be improved upon, head somewhere else. If WoW's gameplay mechanics bug you right now, look elsewhere. Hell, if just logging into a game and going, "Goddammit, this is just a WoW clone!" bugs you (because it bugs the fuck out of me when people do it), head elsewhere.

But, if you're interested in a larger, different metagame, a layer of open world pvp with constant minigames, WoW with a pvp veneer coated on top of it... that's a different story. Because that's what it is: it's WoW 2.0 mixed with DAoC style RvR combat. That, for me, is a good thing.

I've found the entire RvR enterprise enthralling while I'm playing and, the more I played, the more hooked I got. Unlike WoW or, well, any game, PvP *means* something and it means something no matter what level you are. A level 1 contributes to the larger zone control just as a level capped badass does. In order to participate in the endgame city siege pvp you have to control a certain number of all zones, including low level ones. This has the byproduct of keeping the lower levels focused on the task at hand instead of leveling past some invisible bullshit "hump" so they can get to the real game at the level cap.

That last bit is what I loved. You level more slowly than in WoW but I never, ever felt constrained by that. I was so busy having *fun* that I wasn't getting antsy waiting to get to the max level pellet at the end of the tunnel. That, more than anything, is why I've told people I'm having more fun with WAR than maybe any other MMO I've played: WoW has them beat in endgame pve but enduring meaningless, whackamole content while getting there is increasingly wearing thin and WAR doesn't have that.

The Open Party system is so revolutionary yet subtle that I'm amazed nobody thought of it before. Basically, you hit a button and a list of nearby parties/raids pops up with a little blurb about what they're doing (RvR, PvE, Public Quests). If you need a group, you join one of the open parties doing your chosen activity and hit it. Then you leave when you're done. Interestingly, it eliminates that feeling you get in other MMOs that you're a jerk if you drop group early; because everyone is using the open party system nobody feels any sort of obligation to hang out longer than they need to. It really is elegant and changes everything about the game for the better.

Combat feels okay. Mythic needs to fire the fuck out of their marketing department because not a single video or podcast is representative of the final product. In fact, the videos they've released of gameplay have been so awful that they'll actively turn people off. That's a shame. Combat in the videos looks plodding and dull when it's not like that *at all* when you're behind the wheel. It's not fast, mind you, and there are still some UI timing to combat activation issues to work out but it's not the dull horseshit they released with their E3 video of this year.

The game isn't without problems. There are balance issues to deal with, though with the exception of Bright Wizards they're not too bad. Those UI timing issues do need to get solved. Server stability has been worrisome for me. PvE is dull as fucking dishwater but, then, that's not the focus.

Despite the drawbacks, on balance this game is a blast and I was intensely surprised by just how much fun I had. It's not going to be for everyone because it *screams* "why is this just like WoW but I'm not playing WoW" in spots and that's going to irritate some folks very badly. But if you view it for what it is, a pvp centered game with some afterthought pve to pay the bills, and play it as such by constantly staying queued for battleground scenarios and keeping one eye on the local keep as you do you pve, then I think anyone can have fun with this.

Now, I'll tell you this: there is enough WoW ennui to garner a million subs and keep them in a way that AoC could not. The game is mainly stable and it has an endgame in place. Everything is geared toward the style of pvp they're pushing. It's woven into it and is not a tacked on afterthought. That alone will keep people at least interested for a few months until it plateaus a bit.

[tazelbain]

>I assume it's some mix of damage and healing"
Yes, my zealot was getting a lot of 1st and 2nd doing healing. The only problem with healing is you get no inf credit for individual kills.  Healing a tank so he can kill a champ gets you nothing.

[Vinadil]

Tell me more about "High Level Guilds".  Guilds are entities in their own right, with game-recognized levels?

--Dave

Guilds level like players... based on the players in the guild.  So, every time I get XP and PvPXP then my guild also gets that XP.  As you level up the guild gets abilities that revolved mostly around PvP.  The highest we got was Rank 15 before wipes and such (one iteration kept killing our guild every few days heh).  That allowed us to have 3 standard bearers, and allowed us to put 3 abilities (I think, maybe 2) on our standard... and do stuff like Claim a Keep for our guild etc.  I was a standard bearer and had the nice ability to swing it in combat and knock back entire walls of enemies.  Downside... I cannot use ANY other ability of my class while holding the standard.

Guild ranks are similar to PvP ranks in that they will help your guild in the PvP fights as well as let you make your mark on the PvP landscape through claiming Battlefield Objectives and Keeps.

[Merusk]

Now then there's some very nice things about this game.

1) The Tome of Knowledge is a very cool feature.  It's so awesome I hope every game from here on out rips it off in some version.  It keeps a log of all the quests you've ever completed, grants you all kinds of really cool titles ("Ow, My Eye" is my favorite.) tracks all your kills AND gives you the story of the game in one place. 

2) PQs, despite my bitches about them above, are cool.  They just need some tweaks (like checking how many fucking players are in the area!) to make them goddamn awesome.

3) The ability to queue for the PvP instances (Scenarios) anywhere is fantastic.  No need to run back to a city and sit there like a bump waiting on the queue to spawn.  You can do it out in the field at any time.  Plus, when the scenario is over it drops you right back in the PvE world where you were when you joined it.  (warning, mobs may have respawned while you were PVPing)

4) "Open" groups are a godsend for PvP.  No more /lfg while out doing the RVR thing.  Just open up the button, find a group and join it.  This works for the smaller groups as well as the "Raid" groups (Called "Warbands")  The only problem with them right now is idiots who forget to 'close' the group if they don't want pubbies joining them.

5) You don't have to PvE to gear up.  All the best gear is based on your "influence" in an area and your realm rank.  So despite the PvE sucking as hardcore as I outlined above, you can skip it.  There's repeatable PvP quests so you can get cash as well.  Really, with the PvE sucking as bad as it does it makes me wonder why they bothered to put it in at all.

6) The different mechanics for each class are nice.  It may make some people hate one class but love another with a vaguely different mechanic but the same role, but that's ok.  For example, I loved the "Tactics" mechanic of Black Orcs but felt kind of "meh" about the Champion's auras. They were both solid enough classes, though, and seemed to do comparable damage and debuffing.

7) DO NOT worry about the 'upper level' content being untested or unpolished.  Mythic treated this very much as a TEST throughout and not an early marketing tool.  There were several resets and wipes, focus questions, frequent in-game surveys AND phases where each and every level of content and character abilities were tested.  I have to applaud Mythic on a job well-done in making a beta test run like I always felt a beta test should be run.

Dave:  Wish I could give you info on guild ranks, but I was never part of a guild beyond my initial foray.  All the wipes made staying in one too much of a chore for me to bother with.

[Vinadil]

@Modern Angel - I completely agree with this assessment.  I feel like Mythic delivered the product they SAID they were delivering.  It may not be what everyone wants, but it is what it said it would be.

I am coming at this from a guild-centered mindset, so my take on the game is biased that way.  Honestly it is hard for me to imagine people on forums like this who play MMOs today that are not in a guild, but I suppose they exist.  I would say that this game is Not for the solo player, and Not for the PvE lover.  WoW will beat it in both cases... for the foreseeable future.  Honestly the choice for me is not WAR or WoW, it is just WAR until Lich King.

Also, a reason that will probably only impact a very few people... this is the first game that allows a purely dwarf guild to be competitive in all aspects.  That alone is reason for our guild to play at release and find some fun.