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Author Topic: War  (Read 1922837 times)
Sir T
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Reply #4935 on: April 23, 2009, 09:18:16 AM


Quote
There mere fact that you don't just laugh makes it more credible than I would ever have believed from a [DS1] Helen post.

OK, on a scale of 1-10, where one is Bob after Rise folded, and ten is "we shall fight them on the beaches", with three being "we'll fuel towers a la GS in their old space," five working out as "we'll counterspam" and seven is "it's Atlas's ball but we'll turn up for big fights," where are you talking?

i haven't been logged in for about a week and a half, so take this with a grain of salt if shit's changed:
for the last couple of months there's been counterspam going on, first in 46dp, then in 9-9, then in xgh.  only after the spam ended did the towers get killed.  during this time, xdx reinforced some pos, but if -a- showed up to rep the pos/fight xdx, xdx wouldn't show up.  so i'd say a 6-7 on your scale- -a- definitely wants in on fights, but if -a- shows up the enemy hides.  i realize this looks pretty smacky but considering that xdx was unwilling to do much sieging, especially in 9-9 where they put up 20+ larges, i think it's pretty accurate

Ok this made my eyebrows hit my hairline (Fyi I'm almost compleatly bald)

AAA dosen't want fights. AAA wants kills. There is a big difference. In every fight recently they warp in at 190kms to shoot frigates and run when the tacklers get close. Thats so they can run to crapheap and blow about how they got 20 kills and lost 4 ships, when the 20 kills were 19 frigs and a dictor and their 4 losses were 2 battleships, a command ship and a HAC. That's not even close to parity. Another piece of evidence. If you stick 5 titans on a gate while you outnumber the enemy 3 to one, you don't want a fight. You wont get one, you know it. Thats why you do it. If you wanted a fight you would not do that.

Another case in point when You formed up a fleet to help kenny defend towers in GR-... but you somehow took so long that we had left before you got there, and rather than go on to attack something you get home.

And recently the Atlas-XXXdeath battle. AAA only turned up when the battle was nearly over to scoop risk free kills and credit.

And remember that big blob you had in 49-? The striking thing is that Kenny never managed to kill a single bubble in PR-, yet within 3 hours all the rapecages you lot had placed on the towers were all down, because goons etc were bouncing on and out of the shields shooting them right in front of you, despite your huge numbers advantage. I was doing it myself in my battleship. And the striking thing is the moment it got to 2.5 to one in local AAA mass logged off inside 5 minutes. I've seen AAA begin to log on in 49-, see there was a strong enemy presence in local and log off within 15 minutes.

I think its because AAA got its hands seriously burned in YZ9. It came in just outnumbering the enemy and lost every single battle. Every one. That stung them and hit their elite self image of bing hard core PVPers, and they flailed around till they found the only strategy that worked for them... blob. In R2TJ it was so fucking obvious. Their numbers would increase and they would undock and get ready to head to R2TJ, then our numbers would swell to parity and they would dock up again. That's also why Evil Thug ran up a huge panic to get the maximum numbers in 49-. The sheer terror of losing.

Yeah you can say that when AAA turns up the enemy hides... But the fact is UNLESS you have a three to one advantage in numbers AAA wont turn up. Hey guess what, when you only turn up when it would be stupid for the enemy to engage you, thats what will happen. You don't want fights. You want to intimidate the enemy and get risk free kills so you can strut around on forums. That's it. Welcome to you being BOB 2.0.

[/rant off]

Syndicate is that way  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 11:16:46 AM by Sir T »

Hic sunt dracones.
trevorreznik
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Reply #4936 on: April 23, 2009, 10:15:45 AM

Why is that a good thing? Wouldn't it be more useful to secure 49-?

You say that as if one is not the most efficient route to the other.

You're Evil Thug: you have Kenny squealing to you that they have towers coming out in 49- and that their pets-of-a-pet have only brought thirty drakes.  Meanwhile, you have a station system of your own under spam with towers coming out in Tenerifis, only a few jumps from Impass.  You have a history over the years of ruthlessly ignoring allies to defend your own interests.  What do you do?

Edit, efb :(

which station system is getting spammed?  like i said i'm not even subbed :V

also himo that's pretty spergin there, i don't think it's even worth responding beyond saying look at -a- killboards more closely over the last 6 months for the relative fleet/bs sizes of engagements
amiable
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Reply #4937 on: April 23, 2009, 10:32:50 AM

To be honest anyone even mentioning k/d ratios in a serious way is a total moron.  It's a fucking useless metric when it comes to fleet and alliance level warfare.  I want to know:

Who lost/gained POS's.
Who had serious Capital/supercapital losses.
Who has gained/lost territory.
Who controlled the field at the end of an engagement.

Everything else falls into the category of "who cares."

That's why we are ribbing AAA, it IS totally BOB 2.0 because they use the same bullshit measuring stick.  The difference is they should know better.
Sir T
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Reply #4938 on: April 23, 2009, 10:50:20 AM

also himo that's pretty spergin there, i don't think it's even worth responding beyond saying look at -a- killboards more closely over the last 6 months for the relative fleet/bs sizes of engagements

Hey, you know who always said "Hey look at our Killboard for the truth?"

Yeah. BOB.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 10:58:56 AM by Sir T »

Hic sunt dracones.
Endie
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Reply #4939 on: April 23, 2009, 10:58:49 AM

Chill sir t, it's no biggand trev, it was a hypothetical to demonstrate to comstar why just piling everyone into 49- would be a mistake. No system of yours is being spammed right now, but I am lead to believe that ET is doing big all-hands-on-deck posting since tcf are now joining xdeathx in the east. You'd know btter about that than me, though, either way vOv

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Endie
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Reply #4940 on: April 23, 2009, 11:01:19 AM

Dammit the mobile device client for this won't let you edit spelling errors in your posts ;(

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"What else would one expect of Scottish sociopaths sipping their single malt Glenlivit [sic]?" Jack Thompson
trevorreznik
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Reply #4941 on: April 23, 2009, 11:04:30 AM

Chill sir t, it's no biggand trev, it was a hypothetical to demonstrate to comstar why just piling everyone into 49- would be a mistake. No system of yours is being spammed right now, but I am lead to believe that ET is doing big all-hands-on-deck posting since tcf are now joining xdeathx in the east. You'd know btter about that than me, though, either way vOv

yeah, about 2 weeks ago I got told by a friend who 'knows things' that nc/tcf (who are now part of nc i believe) would be joining in on the east to split -a-'s attention.  I unsubbed waiting on that to actually happen, in the hopes that there's fighting that will take place unlike over the last month where it's been nothing but pos bashing with big tz issues.   at least with nc/xdx/solar vs -a-/atlas , it'll be same timezones smashing heads which should make things a bit more exciting, unless nc/xdx play it 'smart' and just time all their poses for 0400 and have goons fly over each night

plus, as a us tz guy, I really can't do much in my prime fighting goons other than do solo ganking. against other eu entities our small us tz contingent can fight their small one.

edit- the reason i said to use -a-'s kb, is that it shows fleet sizes very nicely, the goon kb doesn't.  and i'm as aware than anyone of how bob and pl and -a- and everyone else uses the 'we were outnumbered' game on the forums because they count each player rather than each t2 bs, so unless you go to the killboard itself it's going to be impossible to tell.  and since goon kb summary is insufficient, you have to use -a-'s for the fighting in feyth. 
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 11:06:42 AM by trevorreznik »
Meester
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Reply #4942 on: April 23, 2009, 01:13:44 PM

Looks like TCF was doomsdayed by an Atlas titan. Some hoo ha involving lag in Period Basis also?
Endie
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Reply #4943 on: April 23, 2009, 01:46:41 PM

Yep, meester, lag has been at mid-2007 levels tonight. It's impossible to tell, but kenny might well have been staring down the barrel of two more lost R64s but for systems locking solid (for both sides, though, which is different from back then). They'd have saved the first two for sure, though. I suppose one (exe's?) might yet die but it's all a bit confused. I've had to call it a night (posting from bed don't stop posting never stop posting).

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Phildo
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Reply #4944 on: April 23, 2009, 07:07:49 PM

Intrepid Crossing loses a titan.

Why does no one ever fit a DC II on their titans?
Sir T
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Reply #4945 on: April 23, 2009, 09:45:05 PM

Well, the R64 in Sahkt is now Pandemic Legion. Lag was so horrific that the last 5% of the structure of the tower took 20 minutes to get down. That being said it was a bloody great fight, and Kenny put up its best showing in over a month. Browsing killboards they probably came out ahead in raw kill numbers (including a carrier) But we got the tower and we held the field at the end. By God the loot field was huge. We spent over an hour cleaning it up.

I only got there as the tower went boom so I cant really comment on what happened before that.

Oh and in comedy news KIA DDed the hell out of AAA at a tower AAA had no password for. Sadly the action also seems to have fried the hamsters and the whole system got mangled beyond belief. (No other details)
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 10:02:35 PM by Sir T »

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Endie
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Reply #4946 on: April 23, 2009, 10:45:21 PM

That one was in the post.

And phildo, maybe we only see the fits on the ones who don't...

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MahrinSkel
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Reply #4947 on: April 23, 2009, 11:10:00 PM

So KIA has switched sides again?  Or just friendly fire?

--Dave

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Endie
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Reply #4948 on: April 24, 2009, 01:02:07 AM

So KIA has switched sides again?  Or just friendly fire?

--Dave

You mean KIA DDing AAA?  KIA are on our side and always have been: they're taking two sov 4 constellations in Period Basis (ZAF are helping secure them with KIA, having taken the Dice one already).  They're not pets: they took that space (sometimes alone, sometimes with help from the NC, sometimes with help from LoveU, and then I held TPAR almost alone for a month, which was fun  awesome, for real) and ZAF have declined opportunities to join GS.  We owe ZAF in particular a lot, especially those of us in LoveU who remember their ballsy capital help in ZS-.  So they're neighbours.

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Endie
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Reply #4949 on: April 24, 2009, 02:42:15 AM

I forgot to say that we killed another Kenny R64.  I think we may have killed two overnight, but you know, it's no biggie. (edit: that's a total of two, not 1 + 2, though lag saved them from losing more).

In other news, BDCI seem to be busy heading off a 3BK incident by shooting our offline, unfuelled towers in Tenerifis, in preparation for the eastern front opening up.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 03:33:19 AM by Endie »

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Sir T
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Reply #4950 on: April 24, 2009, 06:08:17 AM

That one was in the post.

Heh all the death is blurring together...

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trevorreznik
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Reply #4951 on: April 24, 2009, 07:10:53 AM

Looks like KIA nailed 19 bs and a zealot, I'm surprised how many of those BS died with only one titan on the KM, so I'll bet the system bugged a bit.  Not too great a dd but not too shabby either.

I've noticed people love reporting DDs still, even when they're minimal or nonexistent, like when -a- supposedly got dded on their way to rescue the bob caps in 9cg, which never occurred.  I suppose that's because being told you got dded adds to the demoralization of it happening, it's certainly less interesting than some of the 15v15 fights I've posted about on here :)
Simond
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Reply #4952 on: April 24, 2009, 10:02:16 AM

Quote
8. Ultrapolite Socailities ‘heh’

LOVEU had a corp theft, their ceo is currently in limbo and IGNE is technically running it under our supervision. Ah corp politics, did I mention Kadm former Loveu and now IGNE tried to form a coup against the now self exiled loveu ceo? It’s all a bit crazy really. None of this was as funny as the ex-foundati0n pubbie who paid billions of isk to help loveu take a system ROL only to abandon it on our way to delve where he decided that he owned his own personal system and shot goons with his towers.
Hey, what did I miss?

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Endie
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Reply #4953 on: April 24, 2009, 11:20:41 AM

It's wildly innaccurate. Igne's not in charge: I'm the interim ceo put in place by the alliance. I've purged a third of the members and locked down the rest. Basically a vouple of people from the fires of heaven boards were unbelievably stupid, tried to take over, tried to get a private system for macro-ratting in, then when I got them booted (each pubbie corp has a gf director, and I had just been appointed) they hacked the ceo's account. Luckily I caught it early, did some stuff and the damage was minimal. But I ended up as ceo for now :(

The igne thing is because they rather oddly took in three or four of the thwarted revolutionaries, who presumably will try to make that the FoH private corp instead. vOv

When vio is satisfied phildo will be the new king.

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WindupAtheist
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Badicalthon


Reply #4954 on: April 24, 2009, 12:22:08 PM

I'm sure you will relinquish power as soon as these dire circumstances permit!



 awesome, for real

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Phildo
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Reply #4955 on: April 24, 2009, 04:10:30 PM

Hey, isn't Simond also an FOH poster?  Who's side are you on, spy?
rand
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Reply #4956 on: April 24, 2009, 04:21:18 PM

looks like Tenerifis isn't as big a priority for AAA, they've called in a cta on the western front for the weekend
Phildo
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Reply #4957 on: April 24, 2009, 05:06:42 PM

Oh, hey, this is probably War News at some level.  I was just promoted to Important Space Video Game Corporation CEO.  The reign of terror begins now.
sanctuary
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Reply #4958 on: April 24, 2009, 05:56:18 PM

Simond
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Reply #4959 on: April 25, 2009, 05:30:09 AM

Hey, isn't Simond also an FOH poster?  Who's side are you on, spy?
My side.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Meester
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Reply #4960 on: April 25, 2009, 10:24:42 AM

TCF lost a titan, to Red Overlord and AAA. They should have stayed home perhaps Grin

I wonder how they managed that?
Endie
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Reply #4961 on: April 25, 2009, 10:56:16 AM

It's true that their first couple of days have involved being repeatedly doomsdayed then losing a titan.  But I still back them and Death to prevent significant problems on the eastern front if AAA takes their eye off them for long.  And we're seeing what happens if AAA don't protect Kenny by Molle losing R64s in euro time.

Since Trevor wants more mid-sized sub-cap engagements reported and less titan DDs, KIA took on a same-sized Kenny/Barbie fleet last nght and slaughtered them.  I don't post battle reports as a rule because they are usually wildly innacurate by their nature (I think ED/IRC's synched ones are OK for their fights right now).  But since it was just KIA, theirs is pretty good, and nobody will believe the disparity if I just state it:  http://killboard.kia-clan.info/?a=kill_related&kll_id=50437

Remember that the innacuracy there is that there were many more Kenny & Barbie than show, but if you only get four kills then your fleet doesn't show up.

On the strategic front, Kenny and co. called a huge CTA today, but so far (the posted timeframe is just about over) all they've done is jump caps aruond and align a bit then spam a few towers in the system everyone knew that they would (because we'd left four offline Kenny towers there).  There is a chance that they have a big surprise to come, but it's a bit unimpressive so far.  At least enough AAA turned up to let them anchor some towers.  They do have several hours left to pull something big out of the bag, though, and from fighting them for years I've never known their big CTAs to pass off with just a few towers being dropped.  We'll see.

Also, we started off euro time on their HUGE OP day by killing another of their R64s.  Yet again, it was Dice's, tightening the screws on the on Kenny corp who still had a decent bit of income.  At the moment, with them using roughly 1d12h timers and us reinforcing their towers in US TZs after they come out, Kenny's six remaining R64 moons are producing as much as one and a half reinforced towers.  Maybe they can evemail Hegemon Rast and ask him for some of his huge fortu... oh wait, no they can't.  Maybe they can sell his titan that they stole, though vOv

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Sir T
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Reply #4962 on: April 25, 2009, 09:01:54 PM

Maybe they can sell his titan that they stole, though vOv

They cant. Mollie gave it to Joke Noble.

In all seriousness tonight has been utter farce. They had 2 to one odds on us most of the night but rather we camped them into a dead end system for leterally 3 and a ahlf hours. They simply refused to fight. The incapped the bridges to H74 (not reinforced, they reinforced no towers today) and camped the entrances to it but we countercamped the gate with what we could. They retreated inside their Pos shields... and hours passed. And passed. Eventually US Goons started Logging in. we got numbers from our allies, and we decided fuck this and want in. And they ran out the other gate and went around us to a titan that had cynoed in and bridged out.

I was like what the fucking hell was this shit. Then we thought we might get a fight with AAA coming in to 49- from 4-0, but they turned around and fled through their jump bridge rather than fight us.

Anyway every tower they have in h74 is in reinforced. (they never even got a chance to get in hardeners on the new towers) And we were then off burning the south to the ground. Mollie has finally lost all reason I think. He, through an alt, was ranting in 49- about how stupid goonies were to waste 3 hours on a friday night shooting down the station services in 49-. He kept on saying this and saying this, and talking about what a waste of time it was for us to be sieging Kenny Posses. This after a total of 9 hours with 300 character from 16 alliances sitting in posses accomplishing squat. The self delusion is mind blowing. He also btw was gloating in local about killing 10 KIA battleships with 200 kenny. I mean, what? The character was still ranting in 49- 4 hours later when I passed through. The rest of kenny btw was saying similar stuff if not as extreme.

I think their entire plan was to take H74 station and spam it like they had 3bk- and camp the shit out of it as they spammed the system. This was possible as the station belonged to Razor, and Finfleet still had 4 online towers we never got around to blowing up. UNFORTUNATLY we took the station off razor last night, which locked it down, and we had more towers there than they could overcome in one spam before we, of course, plant more towers and online a jammer. Which meant that... they will have to fight us through a jammer and kill our towers to claim it. They cant be sneaky and claim this system.

Kenny is down to 6 systems from 9 two days ago. 1 in Delve and 5 in Querious.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2009, 09:10:30 PM by Sir T »

Hic sunt dracones.
Endie
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Reply #4963 on: April 26, 2009, 12:53:24 AM

I dunno, I suspect that he might have hoped to camp the system to stop us dropping five towers today, which would give them more chance of getting pos majority later at some point.

The other big difference from 3BK is that kenny couldn't persuade the russians and exe to drop 20 towers at the same time. That's a good datapoint.

As to why they wouldn't engage? I honestly believe even molle knows that they don't have many more big losses in them, especially barbie. To the clueless retards that make up most of his fleets these days, dropping five towers and onlining four can be spun as a decent victory. If their Big Push had ended in abject disaster the writing would have been on the wall. Even back in detorid they had 'do not engage' orders that we subsequently read when their forums got blown open. Think how much worse that would be for them now.

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setar
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Reply #4964 on: April 26, 2009, 07:29:32 AM

In all seriousness tonight has been utter farce. They had 2 to one odds on us most of the night but rather we camped them into a dead end system for leterally 3 and a ahlf hours. They simply refused to fight.

Got to agree with your PL colleague, the numbers game isn't really helping -- unless everyone's talking about different systems and times:

Quote
I too, had 2 accounts and was in the Zxj fleet. And I agree with AJ's numbers, although I think we had 153 bs and not 145 Razz
Listening to people saying bob outnumbered us 2-1 is pretty funny (so they had 300 bs out of 400 pilots?) when they really have no clue.

Doesn't change the fact that Ex-BOB, EXE and Co are losing valuable moons in Querious, and that the Tenerifs scenario is doing exactly what it is supposed to do -- keep -A- and friends from helping out on the western front. Yeah, ROL/-A- killed a Titan, a Nyx and half a dozen POS, but all of this amounts to nothing in the larger scale. It does, however, keep everyone entertained.

EVE - Yalson [BDCI] [-A-]
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Reply #4965 on: April 26, 2009, 10:21:32 AM

We took another R64 today.  That's Kenny down to four I think.  Might be out by one.  Also, things look bad for Exe's only R64 in lowsec, which PL ninja-reinforced.

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rand
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Reply #4966 on: April 26, 2009, 10:29:22 AM

took down an r64, had a welp in a station system. jammer went down, they got caps in and repped up all their towers (without caps it would've taken them 4 hours, by which time we'd have more numbers), and they anchored 6 more towers immediately in h74. i think we still have tower majority in there though
« Last Edit: April 26, 2009, 10:32:09 AM by rand »
Sir T
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Reply #4967 on: April 26, 2009, 10:41:24 AM

took down an r64, had a welp in a station system. jammer went down, they got caps in and repped up all their towers (without caps it would've taken them 4 hours, by which time we'd have more numbers), and they anchored 6 more towers immediately in h74. i think we still have tower majority in there though

It would have taken them 4 hours per tower.

And they cant have spammed 6 towers themselves. At least one of them would have been The people who's skirts they are holding (I'm not in game and want to play something fun, so I cat check myself)

Anyway we had a majority of 2 yesterday, and had the opportunity to spam more towers last night so we should have been 7 up.

{edit} just logged in to check. They just put down 5 and we are still up by 2 unless I have miscounted.. Pets were shooting the tower with battleships only when I logged in.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2009, 10:48:21 AM by Sir T »

Hic sunt dracones.
rand
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Reply #4968 on: April 26, 2009, 10:47:42 AM

just got posted in TWR

      Total   Claiming   Not Claiming
GS      16   11      5
RAZOR   2   2      0
Kenny   14   0      14
KIA      1   1      1
FI      2   0      2
Open Moons   30

i don't have high hopes of keeping this system. even if we do it might mean getting bogged down here while 49- goes sov three, and they seem to be better at holding sov three systems than us. goons have too much e honour to titan stack cyno jammers
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Reply #4969 on: April 26, 2009, 12:28:17 PM

I'm pretty relaxed right now about H74.  For one thing, I think we have five more towers to put down today.  For another, as Jayce has mentioned, we have more money than we know what to do with, so a system-spamming war in a sov-3 system is just fine.

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