War

[Murgos]

I'm a bit annoyed by the H74 situation.  We didn't even have to do anything and we could have stopped this in it's tracks.  We knew yesterday they were targeting this system and all we had to do was log four Titans in at POS and sit there all day AFK with the cyno jammer on.

Kenny would have scanned the system, seen the four Titans and then gone somewhere else rather than risk getting 300+ subcaps quad DD'd.

Whatever though I'm not even sure if H74 has any strategic importance, does it make a good bridge to Period Basis or something?

[MahrinSkel]

I'm a bit annoyed by the H74 situation.  We didn't even have to do anything and we could have stopped this in it's tracks.  We knew yesterday they were targeting this system and all we had to do was log four Titans in at POS and sit there all day AFK with the cyno jammer on.

Kenny would have scanned the system, seen the four Titans and then gone somewhere else rather than risk getting 300+ subcaps quad DD'd.

Whatever though I'm not even sure if H74 has any strategic importance, does it make a good bridge to Period Basis or something?

Not really.  It's not within JB range of anything outside of Querious, although it would make a good launching point for capital ops and would be usable for a JF link there are alternatives.  H74 itself has an R64 moon or two, and there are 3-4 more scattered about the constellation.

--Dave

[trevorreznik]

MC used h74 as a link to period basis.

And fyi bob didn't really use titans much to defend their jammers in delve, that was just perpetuated for people to self justify not showing up for ops.

[Sir T]

And fyi bob didn't really use titans much to defend their jammers in delve, that was just perpetuated for people to self justify not showing up for ops.

Trevor, I know Jake Noble is trying to perpetuate this myth as part of his TWD religion, but they used them all the time. At least 10 times a week, including triple doomsdaying people inside poses. One of mollies blah blah posts even bosted about how much BOB was using them. Jake was called out on Kugustumen when he said the same shit, and he never made another reply on that thread.

[Endie]

I got doomsdayed plnty in delve 1. The rokh is a fine ship, though, and I am non-dumb enough to align out on arrival, so I only died once.

Anyhoo... We took another R64 moon this morning, this time from exe. Running that constellation must be getting preeetty pricy on the old wallet.

[trevorreznik]

Fire Hawk in c3n is the only time I can even recall BoB dding a jammer takedown op, and that one actually backfired on them.  Alekanderu was the goon fc on that op and did a very good job.   BoB locked down J-L with titans but didn't dd us on a jammer since we didn't hit it, and there were titans in NOL that didn't dd much but prevented us from going after jammers in eurotime.  But on the whole they really didn't abuse titans under jammers like they abused carriers underj ammers in the south.  And to be blunt, I'm the guy who is most aware of how much they used them, because even when I wasn't leading ops I was still reading jabber and staying up to date.  Feel  free to pull out some killboard summaries or battle reports and prove me wrong though. It honestly doesn't matter that much, I just like to nitpick now and then and felt like doing it here instead of to Himo's massive post on the last page. 

What I'm currently amused by is how effectively GS is defending space by using POS spam, and wondering if BoB FCs are pissed off that they should and could have pos spammed to buy time for themselves yet never did.  That's probably because they ceded timezone control, but it's pretty funny that as of a few weeks back, 9cg was 100% covered, and it's likely that h74 will end up that way as well, as well as any other system that's hit.

[Goumindong]

That is like saying that the US and USSR did not pursue a strategy of nuclear deterrence. Its the lack of engagements rather than the engagements that would be showing the problem.[since engagements are the ideal]

[trevorreznik]

They rarely had the titans on in us prime for our jammer ops, it was mainly 30-40 bob flying bs that would stop the attempts. 

here let me see if i can help this argument along

*argues from authority*
*leans back*


edit-on another subject, it looks like the 2 month xdx offensive against -a- is coming to an end with -a-/rol/atlas mopping up towers in tenefiris.  i'm somewhat curious to see if any attacks are made on the goon detorid stations once 46dp is secured.  i doubt it'll happen because it makes little sense for -a- to do, but you never know. 

[Endie]

Well, I'm a euro and nobody could accuse Shrike of being shy with his titan.  And while i stand by my previous comments on the fineness of a rokh, it's no fun in a remote rep armour fleet at a jammer pos.

[rand]

edit-on another subject, it looks like the 2 month xdx offensive against -a- is coming to an end with -a-/rol/atlas mopping up towers in tenefiris.  i'm somewhat curious to see if any attacks are made on the goon detorid stations once 46dp is secured.  i doubt it'll happen because it makes little sense for -a- to do, but you never know. 

what happened to le grande TCF offensive?

[Endie]

edit-on another subject, it looks like the 2 month xdx offensive against -a- is coming to an end with -a-/rol/atlas mopping up towers in tenefiris.  i'm somewhat curious to see if any attacks are made on the goon detorid stations once 46dp is secured.  i doubt it'll happen because it makes little sense for -a- to do, but you never know. 

what happened to le grande TCF offensive?

They and Death are well outnumbered, and have compounded that with a kinda dumb titan loss.

Still, there is an outside chance that they can maintain it today in 46DP.

[Triforcer]

What language is now being spoken in this thread? 

[Sir T]

Fire Hawk in c3n is the only time I can even recall BoB dding a jammer takedown op

So you "forgot" Qy6 (for example) then. That's nice. 

Btw Jake was trying to argue that BOB only DDed 6 times in delve. I'd step back from pushing his agenda if I were you.

On far more relevant stuff, Kenny just lost a tower in H74 and the system is locked down tight. They now have to siege to get anywhere there... and we all know how that will turn out for them.

On Le Grande offensive TCF only arrived there 3 days ago. According to sources they killed a metric fuckload of Atlas BS as they got going yesterday so AAA will probably be there today to try salvaging Atlas ass from the fire. Where AAA goes after that really depends on serLowtax I guess, as he is pulling ETs strings at this stage.

BTW AAA tried the same trick that resulted in the TCF titan loss yesterday in Querious, and wound up losing their HIC in comedic fashion.

[setar]

Thought that was Wagaah's HID, not a -A- one? Would also be nice to hear some more about the metric ton of BS killed as the Atlas KB only has this fight in which yes indeed, Atlas lost more than a dozen BS and a dread.. and killed 5 hostile dreads in return.

[Endie]

Yeah, Sir T's is a bit of a spin on the situation in Tenerifis.

Fact is, TCF haven't really managed to get going, yet, and the numbers that AAA, ROL, Atlas and pets are able to bring have them and xDeathx fighting hard to keep a foothold in 46DP.  I gather that today is a critical day for that, and the Bad Russians and Atlas really should win there, failing something astonishing happening: they have subcap and capital superiority (Atlas in particular have been a revelation (arf) on capital numbers), as well as momentum and better supply lines.

I've been frank there, so I feel I can also say this: if Death and TCF were to withdraw then that would be wonderful news for Kenny, who are frankly a joke now.  Without someone to hold their hand they have been unable to stop the Coalition taking their moon income and that of their pets, and they need the AAA numbers and ROL's ebayed billions more than ever.  If their Russian masters turn up then Kenny pilots might start to show up again, but they clearly have no taste for showing up alone.

[setar]

Which is why I don't see TCF stopping just yet. All they need to do at this stage is buy you guys maybe two more weeks before Kenny is finally done. They do not have the numbers or motivation to sustain any attack on Querious on their own, much less to make any progress in PB or Delve. If the fight over Tenerifs gains momentum again the political landscape gets interesting -- do we decide to give up Tenerifs (most likely), or is everyone enjoying the fights there so much that we wave goodbye to Querious?

[Sir T]

http://www.ituroncavalry.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=47998

Yet another titan goes boom

[Goumindong]

Who the fuck is Error. and how did they get a titan?

[Sir T]

Who the fuck is Error. and how did they get a titan?

I believe its the alliance Diara lir founded after he got all his corps assets stolen and went fuck AAA.

[Endie]

I don't have a 'reply' function on the mobile client for f13, so this is a reply to Setar!

If I was tcf/death and aaa gave up tenerifis, I'd be tempted to push the point and threaten impass. But the real thing to do would surely be to get a mid-tenerifis system within jump-range of feythabolis and let the paymaster order thug to defend him instead of kenny.

[Fordel]

Someone explain what the heck that titan is trying to do tank wise?

[trevorreznik]

The reason I think TCF's offensive in Tenefiris is done is that it looks like they're going to be fighting up in Wicked Creek against that ex-EXE alliance called Aggression, as well as whoever else is up there.  Aggro has bought -a- a lot of time, as well as IRC/ED hitting RA, by keeping TCF, RA, xDX, and whomever else from joining up together.  Remember too that 46dp is xdx sov3, so if that gets flipped to -a-, the only other places to fight are under -a- jammers which I don't think anyone wants to do because -A- definitely enjoys being gay with titans.

On the Querious front, the gkc offensive looks more and more like the Goon one a year ago.  After the failed attack on 9cg (j-/nol), gkc went after moons instead, just like goons did.  However, most pilots didn't care much about doing this, so even when ones got taken, the gains were reversed a few weeks later, and the momentum from taking 49- (qy6) was completely lost.  H74 is their version of the pos spam throughout delve i guess :V

And what is that, 5 titans in 10 days?   Good lord.

[Murgos]

 H74 is their version of the pos spam throughout delve i guess :V

Just on a much faster scale.  Kenny is down two POS already this morning and looking like another one is about to follow.

[Jayce]

And what is that, 5 titans in 10 days?   Good lord.

I would think you would like that.  Less titans = happy t-rez.

I guess Molle was a trendsetter in losing Titans like Rifters, except no single person has matched his record yet.

[amiable]

Mahrinskels weekend/weekday analysis was very prescient.  Pretty much the past month has been Kenny doing well on weekends (when they have ASSCAKE backing) and then failing horribly during the week.

[Sir T]

 H74 is their version of the pos spam throughout delve i guess :V

Just on a much faster scale.  Kenny is down two POS already this morning and looking like another one is about to follow.

They are down 5 as I type this. The morning began with them runnign from H74 with our fleet chopping at their heels, and we wound up killing stiff in front of an enemy titan for added humiliation. After 3 towers, Our FC thought a raid on 49- would be fun while we were waiting for an hour for the next tower and ran straight into a kenny gatecamp what was just bieng set up, which we evaded with some losses, but it could have been a lot worse. This seemed to infuse them with balls so they came and faught us.

After baiting us off our capitals onto the gate, they then swarmed in, which we all got out from. Then they swarmed our capitals. They got a carrier which admitted was his fault as he was busy on another client at the time, but in all other senses are getting utterly and completely butchered. They are heading back and getting new ships which is adding to the carnage. We have killed more HICs than lost frigs at this stage. The last 2 towers were killed under Kenny fire. This could mean utter desperation on their part rather than courage, as I don't think they can absorb the high isk losses they are taking at this point. I died as I had an overview malfunction and could not see what they hell was going on and didn't see I was being primaried until it was too late to bail. Scarily I am one of the only 6 Goonswarm BS that has died so far, out of 39 enemy reported so far.

http://killboard.goonfleet.com/battles/1274 <---

Scary thing is it would have been worse but we ran out of dictors.

{edit} 6 towers down. And before they cry about numbers, local was at well over 400 at its peak and they had a serious fleet, and our fleet was at around 120-130, not all in system and not including the allied fleet.

[Slayerik]

God... GS battle reports (on the killboard) are shit.

[Sir T]

Yeah I agree. heres the NC one

http://www.northern-coalition.com/?a=battles
   
They report 80 kills to 13 losses

Though of course the opposition only show up if they get a kill, so. Remember at that stage local was at over 400

It looks like 46dp is going to fall however.

[Endie]

That's why, for two years, we've not used battle reports in this thread, not killboard stats nor K/D stats, except in very unusual circumstances (occasionally, a very unusual battle with only one participant on one side and a striking outcome).

Anyway, Sir T, your own assessment shows why those numbers you mention are worthless: local numbers minus people in fleet all of whom are not in system but where another friendly fleet of indeterminate size is present?  Could be 2:1 or 1:2 ratios.

The useful thing to consider here is that Kenny attacked unsieged dreads with carrier support and without capitals of their own: they had sufficient numbers to expect to kill more than the one carrier that they did, but in fact lost a very large number of battleships (probably around fifty) in return for T1 frigates and cruisers.  The important thing is that Kenny's assault on H74 is just about over, with all moons covered and them losing six towers to go a dozen or so behind.  They'll need their Russian protectors before they can dent it.

Of course, Kenny may think that keeping us away from 49- for a few hours while AAA have chosen to be elsewhere is the important thing...

[trevorreznik]

And what is that, 5 titans in 10 days?   Good lord.

I would think you would like that.  Less titans = happy t-rez.

I guess Molle was a trendsetter in losing Titans like Rifters, except no single person has matched his record yet.

you think correctly :)  It's especially nice since the recent losses are going to reinforce the 'don't use titans without 3 more on standby' idea, which will prevent most of them from being used, as only a few alliances can do that (pl, -a-, tcf, xdx come to mind)

[Endie]

Nine Kenny towers dead today in euro time.

[Strazos]

I'll never understand why some of them Russians continue to hold Kenzoku's hands.

[rand]

Any update on 46DP?

[Predator Irl]

I'll never understand why some of them Russians continue to hold Kenzoku's hands.

Possibly due to fearing direct attention from Goons once Kenny is out of the picture? v0v

[Sir T]

Any update on 46DP?

Last I heard XIX has 3 about towers left.

Oh and Kenny lost a tower last night in 1-S, their last remaining Delve system, which is a 6 moon system beside Aradia. That leaves it 4 Kenny to 2 GS I believe. Some towers were hit in 49- as well.

By contrast here is the list of towers Kenny reinforced:



Though they did try kiting a resistar for 4 hours with 20 stealth bombers last night. Which to be honest is an interesting idea with the ability of covert cynos to go through cynojammers. But, um, yeah...