Civil War

[Lantyssa]

No, but she can fix the next Marvel world event that just so happens to alter things so fundamentally that the act never effectively happened...

[Velorath]

I'll settle for her altering reality so that Bendis never got a job writing the Avengers.

[Simond]

Reed Richards is an imbecile.
"Let's lock up hundreds of super-powered beings in a prison that drives them insane! Yay! I R teh smrt!"

[HaemishM]

Wait, wait, wait. REED RICHARDS wants to put the captured super HEROES in the NEGATIVE ZONE? What... the... fuck?

I haven't read Frontline #5 yet, but I can't see how anyone with any knowledge of the character at all would think that was within his character.

[Llava]

Was talking with a friend about this, because it does seem pretty screwed up, but it looks like this isn't the big super secret prison that Richards and Pym are working on.  This thing has already made previous appearances in some obscure Fantastic Four series, which would indicate that (since they talked about "building" this prison) this ain't the brainchild.

Even so, we have no idea who actually IS ordering them stored in the Negative Zone, and it would seem that, given Richards' experience with the place, he's still the most likely culprit despite it being against his character.

But, I should point out that at no point is he indicated or shown to be behind this, other than it being high tech and in the negative zone.

[HaemishM]

If Richards ISN'T behind the Negative Zone prison, that would be a very bad thing for the MU characters, moreso than the Registration Act.

But with Richards being the foremost (and likely one of only 3 or 4) expert on the Negative Zone, I find it improbably he isn't in some way involved.

[Velorath]

Looks like it'll take a while to find out since the whole thing is being delayed a month.  I don't know if it's the writing or the art that's delaying this but when looking at delays on the Ultimates also, I'll be very cautious about picking up a "monthly" series written by Mark Millar in the future.

[Simond]

Millar has Crohn's Disease, hence the delays.

[Velorath]

Millar has Crohn's Disease, hence the delays.

Which both he and Marvel knew well before him taking on the job.  I feel for the guy and certainly his health is more important than getting some comics out there, although we don't know for sure his health is the cause of this particular delay.  Still, we're looking at a good chunk of Marvel's titles getting delayed as a result of Civil War 4 & 5 getting pushed back a month, which isn't good for readers or retailers.

[Llava]

Well son of a bitch.

It's all the worse because I love Millar's writing.

[Velorath]

Brevoort's explanation for the delay here.

Summary:  We have a sick writer, our artist is behind because our planning was shit and didn't give him enough lead time, and sorry for all the retailers out there we screwed but when they complain about this it's only because those fuckers always think about their short-term profits and not what's best for the industry.

[HaemishM]

Wow, what a dick. The series was badly planned, from an editorial and narrative angle, and it's late because of it. The illness sucks, and I can certainly understand that causing some problems. But the fill-in artists make sales go down thing? I don't buy it. Usually, the sales go down if the fill-in artist is an untalented monkey.

[Velorath]

Firstly, I think the retailers who are saying this are wrong in the long-term, because right this second they’re most concerned about their short-term future, so they’re not worrying about the long term. But to throw out two examples, look at Ultimate Extinction and the follow-up Ultimate Galactus series. They all sold well enough at the end of the day, but as soon as we had to bring in substitute artists — quality artists in all cases — the momentum of the series immediately started to slow. That trilogy should have been a monster seller for the Ultimate line, but it wasn’t. And I think the reason that it wasn’t is that the integrity of the project was compromised as we tried to meet the schedule. And that’ll also effect the long-term sell-through of the Ultimate Galactus trade paperbacks

Sales on the Ultimate Galactus stuff were low because people didn't like the pacing of it.  I love most of Ellis' work, but those books were too slow.  Didn't have shit to do with fill-in artists from what I could tell.  And hell, I hate fill-in artists too, and I could understand why they wouldn't want to use one in most cases.  It's jarring to read a tpb or something and have the art change mid-storyline.  Still, when your fuck-up affects half your line and causes delays all the way into March, and prevents new books from launching on time you should probably just bite the bullet.

[HaemishM]

I liked the Ultimate Galactus stuff, but that was likely because I read it all in one huge lump. I can see how monthly would make that one feel real slow. But that's what happens when you direct your writers to write for TPB's on a monthly. They either Bendis it up, with pages and pages of useless not even really characterization or they don't have enough space because they started with the idea that they'd have plenty and then added to it as they went along.

[Llava]

I actually read both existing trades one after another.

And it was slow.  Of Ellis' work, I liked it the least.

[Velorath]

Read the Thunderbolts 105 as part of my regular reading, which continues its CW tie-in.  There is a good scene between Zemo and Cap in there, although with the tendency for the rest of the MU to ignore what's going on in Thunderbolts I wonder if Zemo giving Cap the key will actually be picked up on in the main series.  There is also some build up to resolve the overall plot that's been going on since Thunderbolts relaunched.  Hopefully the payoff will clear the deck a bit for the Thunderbolts and allow it to be easier for new readers to pick up and follow.

[HaemishM]

Read the New Avengers #23 (Spider-Woman spotlight) and Wolverine #45.

The Spider-Woman thing was ok, but I keep coming back to the characterizartion of Iron Man. It just isn't him. I don't care how far you retcon or stretch the story of Iron Man, Tony Stark is not going to act like this. He just isn't. If anything, I'd have expected him to be more on the Captain America side. I'd expect a complete role reversal from what's being shown here. Which makes the political allegories in this story even more galling, and the story even more ham-fisted.

Walter Declun? Where have I heard that name from? Any comics geeks can give me the lowdown on that name?

[Llava]

Only returns on Google are referring specifically to this instance of the name being mentioned, otherwise not a whisper.

But he's the CEO of Damage Control Inc.  That's all we got.

[Velorath]

Read the New Avengers #23 (Spider-Woman spotlight) and Wolverine #45.

The Spider-Woman thing was ok, but I keep coming back to the characterizartion of Iron Man. It just isn't him. I don't care how far you retcon or stretch the story of Iron Man, Tony Stark is not going to act like this. He just isn't. If anything, I'd have expected him to be more on the Captain America side. I'd expect a complete role reversal from what's being shown here. Which makes the political allegories in this story even more galling, and the story even more ham-fisted.

Walter Declun? Where have I heard that name from? Any comics geeks can give me the lowdown on that name?

I'd long since gotten sick of Spider-Woman's plot which in two years hasn't advanced so much as spun around in circles.  And yeah, Marvel hasn't damaged Tony Stark's character this bad since the Crossing.  The character has been wasted potential at Marvel for quite a while now though as I can't remember the last creative team that had a good run on Iron Man.

[HaemishM]

Given the really mercurial nature of Stark's character over the last few years, I'm surprised Shield would even let him on the helicarrier, must less be in charge of rounding up rogue superheroes. I mean, he's gone from being Sec. of Defense and having an in-costume meltdown in front of the UN, in his current book he's just been controlled by a fucking teenager with an axe to grind and made to kill bitches left and right (which according to shitty editorial comments, is prior to the founding of the New Avengers), he's hidden things like the House of M stuff from Shield, and lied to the world about his being Iron Man again.

What the fuck else do you need to do to have your security clearance aboard the world's biggest spy airship revoked?

[Llava]

Cable and Deadpool was very funny this week.  I recommend it if you like the humor style at all.  Apparently Thor kills someone on Captain America's side.  I believe that happens in the next Civil War issue.  Cable seems to enjoy delivering zingers to George W.

Young Avengers & Runaways was alright, still think this book is waiting to hit its stride.  I don't entirely know where this book is going as far as Civil War is concerned, but I'd probably keep buying it on its own for the characters and their interactions.  Still, I don't see it continuing beyond Civil War because I doubt Vaughn is interested in giving the Runaways up, so I have to question what this book is trying to accomplish.

[Velorath]

Cable and Deadpool was very funny this week.  I recommend it if you like the humor style at all.  Apparently Thor kills someone on Captain America's side.  I believe that happens in the next Civil War issue.  Cable seems to enjoy delivering zingers to George W.

Young Avengers & Runaways was alright, still think this book is waiting to hit its stride.  I don't entirely know where this book is going as far as Civil War is concerned, but I'd probably keep buying it on its own for the characters and their interactions.  Still, I don't see it continuing beyond Civil War because I doubt Vaughn is interested in giving the Runaways up, so I have to question what this book is trying to accomplish.

I don't think Vaughn wants to give the Runaways up yet, but he has stated that he'd like other people to write them after he's moved on from them.  Like I said, the main problem I have with Young Avengers/Runaways is that it comes during an awkward point in time given what's going on over in Runaways right now and it just doesn't feel right.

[Velorath]

On the other hand... damn.

At his forum creator Brian K Vaughan has posted newsa that has caught fans of Runaways off guard:

There will be a more in-depth article about this soon, but it sounds like Marvel.com is posting an announcement today, and I wanted you guys to hear it first. Anyway, I'm not one for burying the lead, so...

After working together on the series for more than four years, Adrian Alphona and I will be leaving Runaways with Issue #24.

And no, this is absolutely not because of creative differences. I love editor Nick Lowe like a kid brother, and Joe Quesada and everone at Marvel have obviously been nothing short of insanely supportive of our little book since the first page of the first issue.

This was entirely my idea. While Y: The Last Man and Ex Machina have planned endings, I've always said that I hoped Runaways would last forever, long after I left the series. I never wanted Runaways to become a vanity book that was dependent on its original creators' involvement; I wanted our kids to be able to eventually run away from us, and find new life apart from their "parents."

I can say with a great deal of confidence that these next five issues are the pinnacle of the series, and Adrian and I decided that the best thing for the Runaways would be to hand them off to new creators on this high note, rather than risk overstaying our welcome until we ran ourselves--and the book--into the ground.

I love these characters more than you can possibly imagine, and I swear I wouldn't abandon them unless I knew for a fact that they were going to end up with the very best creative team possible. Marvel will be announcing that new team in about a week, and to say that you guys will be thrilled is probably an understatement.

As for Adrian and me, we've already started talking about possible new projects to work on together. I'd really like to take time to give birth to a few more creator-owned books, and I hope you Runners will follow us wherever we end up next.

No one thought Runaways would last six months, but after nearly forty issues and a few Eisner nominations, our sales are still going up (especially with the digest collections in bookstores), making our series one of the most successful comics starring all-new characters to be launched by any major company in recent memory. I'm extremely proud of the entire Runaways team, some of whom will definitely be sticking with our kids, and I'm so grateful to all the undyingly loyal readers out there, the best group of friends a comic book could hope for.

[HaemishM]

SPOILER ALERT.













Civil War #4 has just lept into the realm of the absolutely ridiculous. I started to like it at one point, during the big fight, but then the crazy came out. First, Thor kills Black Goliath, which sucks because BG was a pretty cool hero, if only an artifact of the 70's. Then, we discover it's not Thor, just a THOR CLONE as Tony Stark is apparently Marvel's new version of the paranoid Batman from the JLA. Reed Richards has not only consented to building a prison in the FUCKING PHANTOM ZONE for superheroes, but he's now cloning superhumans to fight other superhumans. WHAT WHAT WHAT? That's Doctor Doom shit, not Reed Richards shit. It's gone from being a somewhat plausible if historically inconsistent idea to one of grandiose stupidity. These characters WOULD NOT DO THIS. That's what it boils down to. It sounds all cool, but the entire history of these characters completely and utterly is in opposition to the acts they are perpetrating.

Tony Stark built Iron Man to make up for the destruction he wrought as a weapons designer. So he helps Reed Richards build superhuman clones? And in the final bit of batshit insane, he apparently has decided to unleash FUCKING SUPERVILLIANS on the resistance movement because his side starts losing supporters thanks to them killing Goliath. And I don't mean just any supervillians, I'm talking about BULLSEYE, VENOM and TASKMASTER.

The only plausible yet cliched explanation for the characters acting this far out of character is mind control. And unfortunately, that'd be a cop out ending at this point.

[Simond]

Best bit in CW4: Here.

[Velorath]

Just read it today (yesterday I was reading all the good comics that came out this week like Runaways, Conan, Walking Dead, Astonishing X-men, Nextwave, and X-factor).  Fucking Thor clone.  Brilliant idea guys.  That clone shit worked out great for Marvel in the past didn't it?  And Reed and Tony are surprised they got his personality wrong (or they got his pre-Don Blake, need to learn some humility personality)?  Not even getting into the logistics of cloning a God since this is comics we're talking about, but how the fuck would one go about attempting to clone someone's personality anyway?  It's not like it was encoded into the DNA in Thor's hair strands.

[Llava]

Which is why it didn't work, I think.

I don't know.  The clone was weak.

The death was predictable.  We knew someone was gonna die, who's the most throwaway character who's been around suddenly?  I was talking with a friend last week and we both predicted the same person, and we were both right.

This week wasn't great. <shrug>

[tazelbain]

Who is Max Miller?

[HaemishM]

They probably mean Mark Millar, writer of Civil War.

[Llava]

Yeah, it's the Nextwave: CIVIL WAR? cover.

[Raguel]

you guys must save me at least $20.00/month. 

[Velorath]

you guys must save me at least $20.00/month. 

Good, you can use it to pick up Runaways and Nextwave.

[HaemishM]

The latest Iron Man (#12) essentially retconns stuff that happened at the beginning of Civil War. At the end, he makes a statement that is supposed to justify his complete about-face decision to back the registration act. Seeing as how the whole story was written and published after Civil War started, it just makes the whole thing seem even more that spur-of-the-moment and gimmicky.

[Luxor]

Saw an advance copy of tomorrows ASM. Remember when the hype started about Civil War and the tagline 'Whose side are you on' was coined? Anyone answeing pro-reg after reading this issue must be nuts. I'm just waiting on the issue where Iron Man ties some damsel onto train tracks and twirls his moustache while laughing like a maniac, the characterisation is that bad. Oh and we find out that Reed Richards family acted just as bad back in the McCarthy era as he's doing now.

After a decent start this whole miniseries is just getting so anti-reg it's not enjoyable any more.

[Ironwood]

Civil War is total wank.

I have no idea what the fuck they're thinking.