Camelot Unchained

[Zetor]

Am I right in assuming that all the 'high-skill'/'zerg-busting'/'8vmany' roaming teams consisted of 2-3 people who locked down the enemy zerg with long-duration AOE mezzes, 2 healers to keep everyone alive, a tank to keep the healers alive, and 2-3 wizard types to completely obliterate an enemy force that couldn't fight back?


(well yeah, the specific number distribution is probably off)

[Nebu]

Am I right in assuming that all the 'high-skill'/'zerg-busting'/'8vmany' roaming teams consisted of 2-3 people who locked down the enemy zerg with long-duration AOE mezzes, 2 healers to keep everyone alive, a tank to keep the healers alive, and 2-3 wizard types to completely obliterate an enemy force that couldn't fight back?

We had different group builds for zerg busting and for 8v8.  The builds also changed every patch as adjustments to classes changed which class was ridiculously overpowered each patch.  That's how we learned to power-level toons from 1-50 in a day and most of us dual boxed two accounts.  Every patch we'd re-roll class or even realm to keep up wiith the changes, shifts in realm population, and the power curve.  I loved the days of getting RR5 in a weekend.    

It's starting to get a little weird to think about how seriously I took this game in the height of its popularity.  That's a place in gaming that I'm never going back to.

[blackwulf]

After the way Jacobs crushed my dreams with WAR,
I won't be funding this kick starter.

Also, people complaining about CC and interrupts in DAOC must not have gotten very high RR, and/or didn't have any good 8 man to run with.  Haha, even a good two or three man group was fun at high RR.

Don't worry, this game will be nothing like DAOC if Jacobs can help it....

[Nebu]

Also, people complaining about CC and interrupts in DAOC must not have gotten very high RR, and/or didn't have any good 8 man to run with.  Haha, even a good two or three man group was fun at high RR.

That and proper magic resists in their gear.  Our healer/bard/minstrel was such a good demezzer that it was never a problem.  It was always 9s stuns that pissed me off the most.  Slam FTW!

[Scold]

After the way Jacobs crushed my dreams with WAR,
I won't be funding this kick starter.

Also, people complaining about CC and interrupts in DAOC must not have gotten very high RR, and/or didn't have any good 8 man to run with.  Haha, even a good two or three man group was fun at high RR.

Don't worry, this game will be nothing like DAOC if Jacobs can help it....

Eh, it's a philosophical debate. I much prefer the Darkfall model of what the mechanics of combat should look like in open-world PvP (not based around tab-targeting and hits automatically connecting, lots of movement and few ways to restrict another's movement), even if I quibble with their implementation.

[Fordel]

Am I right in assuming that all the 'high-skill'/'zerg-busting'/'8vmany' roaming teams consisted of 2-3 people who locked down the enemy zerg with long-duration AOE mezzes, 2 healers to keep everyone alive, a tank to keep the healers alive, and 2-3 wizard types to completely obliterate an enemy force that couldn't fight back?

We had different group builds for zerg busting and for 8v8.  The builds also changed every patch as adjustments to classes changed which class was ridiculously overpowered each patch.  That's how we learned to power-level toons from 1-50 in a day and most of us dual boxed two accounts.  Every patch we'd re-roll class or even realm to keep up wiith the changes, shifts in realm population, and the power curve.  I loved the days of getting RR5 in a weekend.    

It's starting to get a little weird to think about how seriously I took this game in the height of its popularity.  That's a place in gaming that I'm never going back to.

Nebu confirmed FOTM reroller! 


Zetor, group comp was entirely dependent on which patch cycle was live. Like for a good half year, it was possible to passively have something like 50-65% magic resist. Then Hibernia had access to a RA that temporarily boosted that resist up to like 90-95%, and a casting class that could debuff enemy resists back down into negatives. During that time frame Midgard and Albion just largely abandoned DPS casters entirely, Alb group maybe had a Sorc CC. While it wasn't uncommon to see a Hib group with 2-4 casters each, either AEing shitty alb clumps or debuff assisting organized squads.

But yea you mostly got the jist of it. Like this was roughly what most Hib 8man's looked like for years http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k30BBCCmQQY more or less. The main thing to keep in mind, is your average 8man squad had more buffs/healing/cc available to it then the 20-30 random folks that didn't have one available. This is on top of the obvious coordination advantages of having a set-team provides.




Blackwulf, did all that jazz, got the lousy T-shirt that goes with it. Still doesn't make CC and Interrupts in DaoC any less retarded.

[Nevermore]

Nebu confirmed FOTM reroller! 

You didn't already make that connection when he listed 13 classes with over RR7? 

[kildorn]

Yall forgot to mention Spamnesia and the other fun things that basically made DAOC combat revolve around who had the casters who were able to actually function at the moment. Or that magic relics didn't seem to give a +% bonus to spell damage, but instead just flat out capped spell damage on every hit. So a realm with 2 relics would go from balanced casters to even your AE nukes taking a huge chunk out of people.

Or the way they dealt with debuffs (a Con debuff was basically an instant cast giant nuke), or any number of things that made DAOC a mechanically flawed game.

It was fun, we had a blast. Give us a game with DAOC's mechanics again with another name and we'd all pan it in a week and call it the worst shit we'd ever played. Because it was not a good game. It was just the only game in town for one interesting mechanic: RVR.

[Fordel]

Yall forgot to mention Spamnesia and the other fun things that basically made DAOC combat revolve around who had the casters who were able to actually function at the moment. Or that magic relics didn't seem to give a +% bonus to spell damage, but instead just flat out capped spell damage on every hit. So a realm with 2 relics would go from balanced casters to even your AE nukes taking a huge chunk out of people.

Or the way they dealt with debuffs (a Con debuff was basically an instant cast giant nuke), or any number of things that made DAOC a mechanically flawed game.

It was fun, we had a blast. Give us a game with DAOC's mechanics again with another name and we'd all pan it in a week and call it the worst shit we'd ever played. Because it was not a good game. It was just the only game in town for one interesting mechanic: RVR.

Only reason anyone ever brought a Champion with them in a group. 

[Draegan]

Everyone in this thread who thinks this game will be good, or hopes for it to be good should get the grief title of "Blackwulfed".

[Fordel]

I'm pretty sure no one here actually thinks this game will even exist, let alone be good.


We just want to bitch about DaoC more.

[kildorn]

The best part of DAOC was Thid alts and /20 or /30.

[Nebu]

The best part of DAOC was Thid alts and /20 or /30.

Something we agree on.  Yay!

[Brogarn]

I loved DAoC up until ToA (I quit literally the day before the expansion went live after having seen what they were planning). Then loved it again with Catacombs and the "Classic" servers. So, I'm looking forward to seeing how this plays out.

As far as classes go, I played a Druid and a Mentalist the first go around. Then a Theurgist, Infiltrator, Reaver, Healer, Shadowblade and Savage the second go around. The guild I was with made a move from Albion to Midgard, thus the mix of classes I had. Never had an issue with casting spells outside of trying to cast when hitting lag and the server telling me I was still moving when I wasn't. Other than that, it was like Nebu said, just had to have situational awareness and understand where to place yourself to avoid the train.

[Segoris]

Now I never played casters outside of PvE, but was it really that bad?  On my server (Tristan) all of the top 8man groups were caster based.  I remember shortly after clustering began some people from the other servers were shocked to see full groups of RR9+ casters running around.  Hell we even had a RR8+ alb stealth group.

Tristan was my Hibbie server, and it was odd being such a friendly yet very competitive beast. Hibs were really good with our caster groups that started pretty early on compared to anything I had seen. Of the servers I played on, none really ran caster Luri bomb groups like Tristan. The next one I saw that did it successfully was a guild, KOWW, on Mid/Bed after the Spiritmaster buffs. Those became a bit more common, but still nothing like Hib/Trist. The Alb stealth groups were incredibly common though on just about every server.

Am I right in assuming that all the 'high-skill'/'zerg-busting'/'8vmany' roaming teams consisted of 2-3 people who locked down the enemy zerg with long-duration AOE mezzes, 2 healers to keep everyone alive, a tank to keep the healers alive, and 2-3 wizard types to completely obliterate an enemy force that couldn't fight back?

The basis was CC, Heals, Speed for most of our groups. What we willed it with after that varied quite a bit actually. Unlike Nebu, the people I played with didn't reroll every single time a new fotm came up and still had no problems. Shit, even after LAxe nerf we still ran Zerkers and even shadowblades (which a lot of groups frowned on assassins in their groups because they played with bad ones, but a good one positions wisely is a great boost to a group).

The best part of DAOC was Thid alts and /20 or /30.

Something about wasting an entire 8man that you knew (damn I miss communities in games) who were equally buffed in Thid, while solo, that never got old

[HaemishM]

The best part of DAOC was Thid alts and /20 or /30.

So totally this. I could play that for months, but once I leveled out of it, my will to live a virtual life in Camelot dried right the fuck up.

[JRave]

Now I never played casters outside of PvE, but was it really that bad?  On my server (Tristan) all of the top 8man groups were caster based.  I remember shortly after clustering began some people from the other servers were shocked to see full groups of RR9+ casters running around.  Hell we even had a RR8+ alb stealth group.

Tristan was my Hibbie server, and it was odd being such a friendly yet very competitive beast. Hibs were really good with our caster groups that started pretty early on compared to anything I had seen. Of the servers I played on, none really ran caster Luri bomb groups like Tristan. The next one I saw that did it successfully was a guild, KOWW, on Mid/Bed after the Spiritmaster buffs. Those became a bit more common, but still nothing like Hib/Trist. The Alb stealth groups were incredibly common though on just about every server.

Oh a fellow Tristan Hibbie, why hello there.  But even with Hibs having high RR bomb groups, what about the Alb caster groups there?  Holydot's group was one of the more known ones, but there were multiple back then.  Hell Mid had some damn good caster groups too on that server. 

I can't really comment too much outside of what I saw from the sidelines though.  I did the solo stealther thing.  I would feed intel to certain hib groups though, if I knew they were around.

[Sjofn]

The best part of DAOC was Thid alts and /20 or /30.

Hardly played in Thidranki, since Midgard was perma-/30. Caledonia forever!

[Segoris]

Oh a fellow Tristan Hibbie, why hello there.  But even with Hibs having high RR bomb groups, what about the Alb caster groups there?  Holydot's group was one of the more known ones, but there were multiple back then.  Hell Mid had some damn good caster groups too on that server. 

I can't really comment too much outside of what I saw from the sidelines though.  I did the solo stealther thing.  I would feed intel to certain hib groups though, if I knew they were around.

Yeah, Holydot's group was fantastic. I don't think I ran across another Alb caster group pre-ToA that did anywhere near that good. Alb also had a couple of good infs, 1-2 scouts, and 1-2 minstrels (Killer, Cereal, and I don't really remember the other names after this many years). Mid caster groups I never was impressed by on Tristan.

Hardly played in Thidranki, since Midgard was perma-/30. Caledonia forever!

Autoleveled skills anyways, so /level was irrelevant for the Thid farmers. Sad how fast rerolls got when you could not prevent capping out.

[blackwulf]

Everyone in this thread who thinks this game will be good, or hopes for it to be good should get the grief title of "Blackwulfed".

I dunno, dude, the only MMO to come out in the last few years that I've been excited about is TESO, and that's yet to be proven a flop.  In fact, I'm still pretty sure it's gonna be awesome :)

How soon till we see an "Camelot Unchained Junkies" hyperlink in your sig?  Maybe people excited about this Unchained game should get the title, "Draeganed."

[rk47]

No. Fuck you. :)

[UnSub]

It was fun, we had a blast. Give us a game with DAOC's mechanics again with another name and we'd all pan it in a week and call it the worst shit we'd ever played. Because it was not a good game. It was just the only game in town for one interesting mechanic: RVR.

This.

[JRave]

Even if they could somehow capture the magic and put out an amazing RvR game from a mechanics point of view...  I think it would still be lacking without the community feeling that DAoC had.  Realm/Server pride and all that.  Seems most MMO players these days don't care for it. 

[Draegan]

Everyone in this thread who thinks this game will be good, or hopes for it to be good should get the grief title of "Blackwulfed".

I dunno, dude, the only MMO to come out in the last few years that I've been excited about is TESO, and that's yet to be proven a flop.  In fact, I'm still pretty sure it's gonna be awesome :)

How soon till we see an "Camelot Unchained Junkies" hyperlink in your sig?  Maybe people excited about this Unchained game should get the title, "Draeganed."

You're cute kid.  But thanks for reminding me to update my sig though.

[Nebu]

The first 20 levels of WAR were good.  That's what gives me hope.  If you take the first 20 levels of WAR, balance it a bit, remove the shitty PvE, and add a third realm, I'll be satisfied.

Forgot to mention: No bright wizards!  Dammit.

[Draegan]

The first 20 levels of WAR were good.  That's what gives me hope.  If you take the first 20 levels of WAR, balance it a bit, remove the shitty PvE, and add a third realm, I'll be satisfied.

Forgot to mention: No bright wizards!  Dammit.

I said the same exact thing on another message board, but I stopped at level 11 I think.

[Hoax]

DAOC was garbage at launch. Jacobs can't build a full game to save his life.

DAOC, shit uninspiring leveling, remember how many times they palette swapped the same mob model? Hell I'm pretty sure only Alb felt like it was even finished at launch.

DAOC, worst class balance I've ever seen at an MMO's launch. In a post WoW world no game that imbalanced will ever be tolerated by anybody, including all you rose colored glasses guys.

DAOC pvp was so great? Really? At launch pvp where you could literally spend 20 seconds doing nothing but watching the fight if the other side didn't get around to killing you?

Did you guys not play Shadowbane? DAOC did literally nothing better, I'd argue the pve was worse in DAOC and not even because it took that much longer.

Fucking Lineage was a superior game. Fuck Mark Jacobs. Anyone who falls for this shit again deserves the crap game they are going to get. I have nostalgia, for AC1, AO, SB, EQ1, lots of old titles that I probably wouldn't enjoy now but there were aspects of them that were really cool but the way a handful of posters get around here with DAOC is just crazytown. The ONLY thing about that game you can say is great was the pvp and the pvp was fucking terrible unless you were willing to grind the fotm class through the worst pve experience I can think of in a sub fee game.

[Hutch]

Hoax, man, climb down off that fence. Pick a side. Tell us how you really feel about this 

Ahem.

In other news, Mark Jacobs is Bold! And, a Risk Taker! Just Ask Him!

[Ingmar]

The first 20 levels of WAR were good.  That's what gives me hope.  If you take the first 20 levels of WAR, balance it a bit, remove the shitty PvE, and add a third realm, I'll be satisfied.

Forgot to mention: No bright wizards!  Dammit.

Shouldn't you be playing Wrath of Heroes then? 

[Malakili]

The first 20 levels of WAR were good.  That's what gives me hope.  If you take the first 20 levels of WAR, balance it a bit, remove the shitty PvE, and add a third realm, I'll be satisfied.

Forgot to mention: No bright wizards!  Dammit.

The only difference between the first 20 levels of WAR and the rest is that for the first 20 levels people hadn't figured out how to play optimally yet.  Depending on how long you stayed around, the first 20 levels largely ended up the same as the rest (read: grinding scenarios).

[Ingmar]

Did you guys not play Shadowbane? DAOC did literally nothing better

Er, no. Shadowbane didn't have RVR at all. They weren't the same kind of PVP game so comparing them like that is sort of pointless.

[Nebu]

The only difference between the first 20 levels of WAR and the rest is that for the first 20 levels people hadn't figured out how to play optimally yet.  Depending on how long you stayed around, the first 20 levels largely ended up the same as the rest (read: grinding scenarios).

I disagree about the PvP after level 20 and I'll leave it at that.  Nothing I say will change your mind. 

[Lantyssa]

CC was significantly worse.  There were other problems, but that was the big one I encountered (and caused in Tor...).

[UnSub]

In other news, Mark Jacobs is Bold! And, a Risk Taker! Just Ask Him!

That's a pretty common Kickstarter dog whistle - "No publisher would cover this! And we don't care if its *spit* popular, we are just going to do it awesome!".

It looks like that risky, bold decision making extends to developing a Plants vs Zombies clone using the mostly publicly available Wizard of Oz IP.

[Falconeer]

Even if they could somehow capture the magic and put out an amazing RvR game from a mechanics point of view...  I think it would still be lacking without the community feeling that DAoC had.  Realm/Server pride and all that.  Seems most MMO players these days don't care for it. 

That's kind of what unexpectedly killed my interest in Guild Wars 2 WvW. Not being able to see the name of my enemies led to not giving a fuck, as it felt like they were smart mobs more than players I had to learn to hate or respect.