Mass Effect 3

[kaid]

Using this metaphor though, i'd say it also shows the game council logic fails pretty badly -- the US declared "war on terrorism" in response and actually went to kick what they considered to be the source on their own territory.

I should have spent more time describing a sort of Maginot Line-ification along the Perseus Veil. Maybe I would have if I'd been on the project into the side quest stage.

The 9/11 analogy only takes it so far. The geth in this case were less like al-Qaeda and more like a rogue section of the Chinese army. The US can roll over small mideast countries looking for the people who screwed them, but they couldn't roll over China. The best they could do would be to surround them with a military cordon, attempt to diplomatically isolate them (inapplicable in the case of the geth; they've already diplomatically isolated themselves), and watch them reaaaal close.

Except that still does not make a whole lot of sense. If a hostile nation launches a huge warship at the center of your civilization in basically a weapon of mass destruction type attack you don't just sit their guarding the borders going we shall watch them close. That would pretty much be world war 3 time no matter how big they are they have already demonstrated their hostility in a massive way letting them sit and gather forces rebuild said death ship again is stupidity of an epic nature.

[ajax34i]

Yeah, except for the plot device of "the geth are being controlled / have been reprogrammed by the Reapers, so it's not their fault, so they shouldn't be annihilated."

[Morat20]

Well, there's also the fact that:

1) The Geth came out of fucking nowhere (they'd been doing jack shit for 200 years)
2) The Geth blew apart the Citadel fleet, the biggest in the Galaxy.
3) Only the mass human fleet coming through + Normandy meant anything was left.

Which means that in the two years since ME1, they'd be lucky to gear back up to pre-Sovereign levels. The game kinda hinted around that the Citadel races fleets were stretched thinly as it was, even without the Geth as an enemy. There was that whole weird-ass shit about the relative fleet sizes, which meant everyone was restricted to whatever the Asari decided to build....

And humans were given the colonization rights they had because the Citadel wanted humans to handle watching the Geth and dealing with Batarians and basically the whole thing was a ploy to take pressure off the Citadel races and let the humans deal with the headaches.

I don't find it all that jarring that the Council would decide that the problem was just the Geth, and that other than rebuilding they didn't need to do anything else. Because other than trying to rebuild, they didn't have the time or money for much else. Not without slamming down every panic button they had, and what politician wants to admit to Armageddon?

Especially if you have to admit the humans prevented it. Even replacing the Council with humans, you'd have the same problem -- Humanity would be stretched just as damn thin and couldn't do anything more without full mobilization, and politically -- the Council got offed, Humans took over, and now they want to claim war is coming?

Good luck getting the Turians, Asari, and Salarians to buy that.

[Sjofn]

Yeah the whole "Ah yes, 'Reapers'" thing was like. The least of my issues with some of the story stuff in ME2.

[tmp]

In ME2, there are several news items about Council military buildups

I didn't really get such impression, at least not in the sense any of that was tied to the expected geth/"reapers" invasion -- perhaps because i had the Council explicitly insist both in my face and to general public that there's absolutely no need for such a buildup, so i interpreted these news pieces as simple act of restoring what was lost in the Citadel attack (i don't remember hearing about the Turian bit, is that maybe something that happens if you establish the earth as new power in ME, and in reaction to that?) Plus, Stormwaltz also didn't mention such buildup specifically for the geth/"reapers" was actually taking place? Just the border patrols etc.

(derelict reaper)
It conveniently loses orbit and gets lost in the thick planet's atmosphere after you shot up its core.

Yeah, but it's not something you know is going to happen in advance, when you learn about its existence and/or location. So when that bit of revelation happens you'd imagine at least some Shepards would be very eager to pass that info to the Council (in fact, i'd expect that option even for the originally planned version of that mission because srsly, just because TIM says "Shepard, my shit broke again, go and fix it nao" doesn't mean Shepard is actually willing to blindly obey)

[Koyasha]

The derelict reaper mission - and the side-mission with the perfectly functional prothean beacon - are the two parts of ME2's plot that I have the hardest time buying.  I can't understand any reason why a Shepard that is only going along with TIM because she HAS to and no one else will help would do anything other than page the Council, the Alliance, and anyone else she can damn well get the attention of as soon as she learns the location of the derelict reaper - all before even considering landing on the thing.  Granted, it may not have helped (it goes down anyway, the short time studying it was 'inconclusive' or something) but not even trying to inform anyone is one of the biggest moments in the game where it just doesn't make sense to me.

Of course, Shepard has ever been very rational when it comes to dealing with the Council as far as the reaper thing is concerned.  From Shepard's side, the Council's viewpoint should appear pretty rational - they want more proof, and you haven't been able to give them much, at least during ME1.  All the times in ME1 where Shepard insists that "reapers are real, TRUST ME!" make me roll my eyes at Shepard because really, you don't expect a government that rules over trillions or quadrillions of sentients to mobilize their entire military on the word of anyone, even the most trusted person ever, much less the rookie.  Of course, some people on the council *cough* Turian *cough* have continually tried to antagonize Shepard intentionally, but the Asari has always been the rational one, and so has the Salarian to a considerable degree.

Besides, I'm not exactly sure what people would expect the council to do even if they fully supported Shepard and believed in the reapers.  Ok, yeah, they're out there.  Now what?  Unless they're going to send the whole galaxy into wartime mode where as much production is converted to military purposes as possible - which the public simply wouldn't understand or accept without an obvious enemy - the only thing they can do is rebuild reasonable levels of military and stock up resources for the impending battle.  Nothing that happened in ME2 seemed to call for action from the Council, because any such action would be unproductive.  Sending even a few ships to investigate the Terminus Systems may have caused political trouble and war that they simply could not afford if they wanted to prepare their fleet for the real threat. 

Additionally, I have never seen one hint of evidence that anyone, even Shepard, has seen, to suggest the Reapers are going to be a threat within a few years, much less a human lifetime.  Why?  Because as far as we know, we shut down their way back into the galaxy and now they have to travel here slowly from who knows how far away, a journey that could reasonably take decades or centuries without the Citadel mass relay being open for them to arrive in.  Imagine if they did go into full military mobilization, churning out thousands of warships, and then...nothing.  For half a millenium.  Nothing.  Finally, five hundred years later, the reaper fleet arrives.  From the point of view of Shepard and the Council, that is not only possible, but it seems to be logical and probable.

In ME3, I would really love to learn that the Council has taken the reaper issue seriously since the attack on the Citadel, they've just been doing it in secret and in the background, shoring up the military and doing whatever research they have been able to in order to build weapons to combat this threat.  And they didn't tell Shepard because, well, Shepard has shown herself to be pretty unstable even when she's right, so it might be a good idea to keep her a little distant from this.  There's plenty of ways to still make them seem like reasonable, intelligent leaders that show some caution rather than abject stupidity (by ignoring even the possibility of a threat) or utter recklessness (by going into full mobilization mode with no further information on what the threat is or when it's going to happen).

[ajax34i]

Well if you're thinking in terms of rational decisions, the Reapers make a huge tactical mistake:  they all pile into the Solar System to kill the Earth.  Supernova the Sun and the rest of the galaxy wins the war.

[Ingmar]

If someone has a weapon that can make suns go supernova, the rest of the universe is screwed anyway.

[tmp]

Plot Shield > supernova, though.

Will probably take Shepard going up the individual Reapers' rectum exhaust port and navigating the maze linear twisty passages all way to the self-destruct button.

[PalmTrees]

Nah, Shephard's going to do it Kirk style, and defeat the cold logic of the reaper AI with earnest human emotion.

[tmp]

Hmm, so the Reaper AI as the next love interest?

I KNOW YOU FEEL THIS.

[Ingmar]

ASSUMING CONTROL

<funk music starts playing>

[Triax]

This has been thought of.  Be afraid, be very afraid 

http://lordess-alicia.deviantart.com/art/Diplomacy-251297727?q=boost%3Apopular+mass+effect+wrex+shepard&qo=123

[UnSub]

In ME3, I would really love to learn that the Council has taken the reaper issue seriously since the attack on the Citadel, they've just been doing it in secret and in the background, shoring up the military and doing whatever research they have been able to in order to build weapons to combat this threat.  And they didn't tell Shepard because, well, Shepard has shown herself to be pretty unstable even when she's right, so it might be a good idea to keep her a little distant from this.  There's plenty of ways to still make them seem like reasonable, intelligent leaders that show some caution rather than abject stupidity (by ignoring even the possibility of a threat) or utter recklessness (by going into full mobilization mode with no further information on what the threat is or when it's going to happen).

This.

I'd really appreciate it to see the Council say, "Our own independent investigations found out evidence of the Reapers as well, and we've been preparing contingency plans ever since. We didn't tell you because, well, why the hell would we tell a Cerebus-linked operative anything and because it is above your pay grade anyway."

However, such an approach removes some player agency, so I expect Shepherd to get a big "I TOLD YOU SO" scene, just to prove that Shepherd is always right.

I haven't played The Arrival, so don't know how that changes things.

[TripleDES]

Not at all. It sets the background for an event referenced in the beginning of ME3, but does remove any choice or ambiguity about it at its end. At most, the player choice in that mission will gather a casual mention in ME3.

[Sjofn]

[TripleDES]

Well, I sure know what world I won't save in ME3. 

[Stormwaltz]

The Collector's Edition: lots and lots of stuff.

Honest. An amazing amount of sheer STUFF, both in-game and out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXMzRLI9yrg

[eldaec]

Or.... usual mix of real world tat and in game cheat mode gear, plus it seems to imply an extra companion, which I would have been mildly irritated by in the past.

[Merusk]

I wonder if they're overhauling the reload system again this time.

[tmp]

That art book looks neat

[Lantyssa]

If someone has a weapon that can make suns go supernova, the rest of the universe is screwed anyway.

Hastrom.

[Ratman_tf]

http://andromeda.wikia.com/wiki/Nova_bomb

Great show until it turned into The Kevin Sorbo Hour, Starring Kevin Sorbo!

[Stormwaltz]

Mass Effect Marathon 2, a fund raiser for Child's Play, begins at 12:01 AM. They'll be playing the games until midnight Sunday - repeatedly if they finish early.

If you were planning to donate to Child's Play, please considering doing so through them. And if you donate to ME Marathon, please consider sponsoring Legion (purely as a gesture in support of equal rights for all sapients, regardless of their biology or lack thereof).

www.memarathon.com

[TripleDES]

If someone has a weapon that can make suns go supernova, the rest of the universe is screwed anyway.

Hastrom.

Causing a supernova would eradicate all life in a radius of several thousand lightyears, due to such intense gamma radiation.

[ajax34i]

Eh.  Gamma ray bursts are supposedly created as beams, so not all planets in a radius would be affected (only those above / below the poles of the star).  And, they are created by stars massive enough to go supernova naturally and collapse into black holes or neutron stars, so it's possible that aiming this weapon at a regular-sized sun would collapse the sun but not produce the gamma ray burst.

[Ratman_tf]

And it would create a planet of hulk monsters! 

[Sheepherder]

Umm.  Only massive stars or binary star systems can go nova or supernova.

Also, you may rest assured that a star going supernova will emit all sorts of radiation in all directions, the gamma emmisions from the remnant following after might be directional, but by then nobody would give a fuck.

[Stormwaltz]

Haestrom is prematurely aging into a red giant. It's not going to explode.

Excessive simplification: a star is a sustained fusion explosion that exists in balance with an "implosive" force of gravity. Dark energy effectively reduces mass, and hence gravity. The explosive force starts to "win," and the star swells.

I'm sure that in real life there would be other repercussions I didn't think of, but this was as far as I was interested in pursuing the matter.

This was me trying to logic out someone else's extremely boneheaded idea.

[Sheepherder]

Dark energy has mass, it's why people think it probably exists.

[Muffled]

I think you're confusing Mass Effect universe dark energy http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Element_Zero with real world dark matter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter Sheepster.

[Sheepherder]

I'm just being a smartass, ignore me.

[Sjofn]

Is this out yet?


It isn't out yet, is it. 

[Fordel]

You'll have to get your fix somewhere else Sjofn!

[Sjofn]

God dammit don't make me play DA:O again.