Mists of Pandaria

[Sheepherder]

Rogues already have infinite regen. Mana* isn't modeled the same way, it's meant to be managed carefully and when you run dry, you're dry for a while. That would be the remaining distinction between mana and energy if both regen rates and pool sizes were fixed independently of gear, and it's also what would make that change kinda suck.

So being forced to manage your mana carefully is the best thing to happen to healing, except when Blizzard intends to force you to manage it that way for the entire expansion?  So, umm, you don't actually like the mana management metagame after all?

[Sjofn]

No, he's saying if it turns out to be like energy (which has a fixed amount and regen rate already), that will suck. Managing energy is different than managing mana.

[Rokal]

I was hoping MoP would release sooner than later (did you hear that Dragon Soul kind of sucks ass?), but after playing the beta a bit this weekend it seems like it still needs a fair bit of work. Lots of bugs and 'in progress' skills/talents for multiple classes. All three monk roles feel poorly balanced and lack focus.

Mistweaver (healer): DPS->healing is completely broken right now because the majority of that healing seems to come passively from statues you place. The way it's supposed to work is that the statue heals the lowest-hp person nearby for 50% of the damage you deal. The way it actually works is that only 50% of one ability (jab) is distributed as healing. It's a bug, they'll fix it, but the statues are a dumb mechanic. You get two charges to place a statue, and they have something like a 5 minute cooldown to refresh a charge. They are conceptually bad for the same reason that shaman totems were, only they are even worse because they have a 5 minute cooldown. All three trees use this dumb mechanic. Mana is also really fucked up for monks right now, and I felt like I was struggling to keep a group alive in 4.3 dungeons on the beta server and that was without spending any time dpsing.

Because the class was role was designed to also be dpsing much of the time, the heals are mostly smart heals. This means that if you aren't able to dps because healing is hard to keep up (currently the case for almost all situations), your heals just aren't very exciting to use. If they aren't able to fix dps healing to the point where healing monks will actually be dpsing on anything besides easy trash, Mistweavers will just be left with boring smart heals for gameplay.

There are some cool concepts in there, but they're missing a few abilities and others (statues, renewing mists, uplift) just feel like they need to be scrapped.

Windwalker (dps): Probably has the most bugged/incomplete abilities at the moment. The basic combat rotation feels pretty good, which you'll see on the starter island, but they feel like a mess at 85 when they have many more abilities and trying to work them into your rotation just doesn't feel quite as good. Overall, they'll probably be pretty fun to play by the time MoP launches, but they don't really feel especially unique. What I saw was basically a mix of rogue and warrior abilities, with gameplay that fell somewhere in the middle.

Brewmaster (tank): I didn't play a brewmaster since we still only have dual spec, but I can report my experience healing a brew-master tank. On the very first pull in End Time (undead near sylvanis) our Monk tank in full 378 gear went from 100% to dead in about 2.5 seconds. After we wiped and ran in again, I opened with spinning crane kick (aoe damage/heal), pulled aggro, and died in ~2.5 seconds). Their mitigation/threat seems completely broken right now. I don't know if the monk tank was doing something wrong, but another group commented that he ran into the same problem on his monk tank as well. Our monk tank left and we got a prot pally tank, and the difference was like night and day.

Part of the problem with both the roles I played was most likely my fault. Playing on the PTR/beta is frustrating because you don't realize just how shitty the default UI is until you're forced to use it. Determining who has aggro on a pack of mobs, tracking buffs/debuffs, and cooldown displays/timers are all obnoxious with the default UI. Even something like displaying healthbars with the default UI sucks. Your options are either 1) Display health value or 2) Display health %. The settings share for all displays: party, self, target, focus etc. Displaying health values at this point in the game's lifespan covers your entire health bar with text because HP values have become so inflated. It's hard to glance at and get an idea of your party status. Percentages is slightly better, but less ideal for enemy unit frames, and it makes it hard to determine what heal is necessary for the PUG tank in your group at 40% vs the PUG mage in your group at 40%. Every beta/PTR experience I've ever had has colored my opinion of that content negatively because of persistent problems with the default UI. I don't use a crazy UI on live (I still use CT Unit Frames, and the default raid frames, for example) but the small improvements the addons I use do make count for a lot.

[Rokal]

On a positive note, the pandaren animations are great. I made a panda rogue/warrior and still see myself losing $50 to race changes once MoP launches.

[Malakili]

While MMORPGs come from pen and paper RPGs, D&D combat was never holy trinity based. It's never had mechanics for threat, aggro, an taunting at all. There's traditionally been very limited 'make him fight me' controls, starting with 'if you move away from someone they get a free swing' in 1e and 2e, then more detailed attacks of opportunity in 3e, then in 4e adding some 'if you don't swing at me, I hit you harder' abilities. You also don't really have any separation between Damage Dealers and tanks, with fighters and barbarians maxing melee and health, then at high levels mages just sort of take over as demigods. In traditional D&D rogues weren't even a DD class, they did scouting, lockpicking, and an occasional backstab, not significant damage in a prolonged fight.

I'm not relating it in the sense of the trinity, I'm relating in the sense that it has origins in a turn based format, and the was translated to CRPGs early on with time based real time "turns" still has far reaching influence in how combat works in what we now sometimes call "hotkey based" RPGs.   That is the relationship I'm talking about.  I agree with pretty much everything you said.

[Sheepherder]

No, he's saying if it turns out to be like energy (which has a fixed amount and regen rate already), that will suck. Managing energy is different than managing mana.

Right, so if you assume that Blizzard is doing something they haven't said they're doing, it might be something you don't like.

[Sjofn]

Uhh, right, that wasn't what he was trying to imply either? It was in response to people saying FINITE MANA IS BULLSHIT and stuff.

It's just shooting the shit, dude.


EDIT: I guess you got completely thrown by my poor choice of tense? Is that it?

[Fordel]

Finite Mana can still suck my balls. I stand by that statement.

[Sheepherder]

I'm thrown by the presumption that it's remotely possible that casters will end up with blue energy.  It would be like assuming that everything they've said on the subject of hunters since the Wrath of the Lich King beta is meant to deceive and they're secretly adding a dual-wield melee spec to them.

[Sjofn]

It's just shootin' the shit, dude.

[Sheepherder]

I take my internet asstalking seriously.

[Rasix]

The MoP phishing email I got yesterday was really good.  Professional quality.  I almost clicked that link.

Glad to know that the spammers haven't forgotten about me.

[Fordel]

As I understand it, Blizzard doesn't actually send links anymore, they just say go to Bnet and check.

[Merusk]

Rezz scrolls still send the a big button link that says "Play Free Now." 

Got a spoof of one of those the other day that was just a copy of the actual email with the link changed. (Which I knew because the wife had sent me one a week prior.)  Probably why it came through the spam filter in the first place.

Only the actual beta invites send the "log in to your account" text-only mail. 

[luckton]

Alright, so it looks like they really have no idea what they're doing with Demo Warlocks.  They have backed off from trying to make them melee-friendly, rather they just want them to keep doing what regular Demo 'locks do right now; they'll just look cooler when they do it 

I don't think it's too early to ask this; in light of SWTOR, GW2, and the current information we have about the aforementioned titles and MoP, who all's still planning on playing this when it releases?

[Zetor]

My guild will definitely be playing MOP... perhaps not at release (depends on GW2 and MOP release dates), but we'll be getting it and playing it for ~3mo or so at least.

SWTOR fizzled out really quick for us (even though most of the guild are SW fans), and - while we're all looking forward to it - GW2 is a no-sub game, so there's really no issue with playing another game for a bit.

[Hutch]

I don't think it's too early to ask this; in light of SWTOR, GW2, and the current information we have about the aforementioned titles and MoP, who all's still planning on playing this when it releases?

Don't forget that D3 is supposed to launch in a month. I'm in on that one (annual pass) and I plan on checking out GW2 as well. We'll see what order everything releases in, but the annual pass means that I'm already good to go for MoP. Assuming that it launches by the end of the year.

I'm hoping that my guild will remain more or less intact (and maybe even get some people back) once MoP gets here. Guild activity is the main sticking point, once I've finished the leveling/rep grinds on my main.

[caladein]

Still have active WoW and SWTOR subs, still looking to keep them for the foreseeable future.

I know enough about GW2 to pass on pre-ordering it (still might pick up if I get into a shooter/MOBA lull down the line) and there's nothing else even remotely intriguing coming down the pipe.

[Pennilenko]

Me

[FieryBalrog]

I'll be playing MoP, if anything I will break from WoW to play D3/GW2 while I wait for it to launch

[Sjofn]

I am beginning to think I will not be playing MoP. I'm in the beta, and I've played for about two hours total. I'm just not interested in it any more. It was a good ride, though, and the monk class seems like it'll be fun once they finish figuring it out.

[Kail]

I don't think it's too early to ask this; in light of SWTOR, GW2, and the current information we have about the aforementioned titles and MoP, who all's still planning on playing this when it releases?

Probably not I.  I don't have anything against WoW (I actually really enjoyed Cataclysm), it just seems like I've done all of it and I have no reason to go back.  I might resub sometime later if something pulls me back in, but right now WoW is sitting in that mental bin with games like Left 4 Dead and Team Fortress 2, where I think they're good games, but I just feel like I've wrung all the fun out of them that I can.  Unless there's some kind of major shift in the gameplay or social pull or something (like getting a stable F13 guild running) I have nothing to really bring me back.

[Rokal]

My excitement about the expansion was much higher before I played the beta as well. I'm willing to chalk that up to it being in an unpolished state. Pandaren are less exciting when they are missing half their hair styles, are missing animations, and have buggy intro quests to play through. Monks are less exciting when you are playing them in an un-refined in-progress state, wrestling with UI bugs and the default UI in general.

If I take a step back in the beta and look at the new zones, the art looks fantastic and I get a little excited again. That's really the only thing that's going to be the same between beta and release anyway.

I'm still planning on picking it up, and I hope it will be exciting to play at that point, but the beta really took the wind out of my sails. Betas usually do, but I told myself it would be worth it to see whether I wanted to switch to a monk. It wasn't.

[Sjofn]

It's not really the beta-ness for me. I've been in betas for their expansions before (OK, more accurately, INGMAR has been in them and I was the one actually doing the majority of the beta-ing) and cheerfully tested my little heart out on those. I did the DK starting zone more times than I care to count, for example, at varying levels of bugginess, and it didn't dampen my enthusiasm any. MoP just fills me with meh, though, and I think it's just that WoW and I are finally breaking up. It's a good break up, mind you, amiable and we'd still be friends because really we just drifted apart, but a break up nonetheless.

I actually like what they did with talents, I like a lot of the art, the monk class has a lot of potential, I'm just ... done.




The story shit is still totally shitty though. 

[Ingmar]

I'm sure I'll play it a little bit to say hello to people and that sort of thing (we still have some stragglers that I want to convince to try out SWTOR...) but I can't imagine I'll go back to it For Real ever again at this point. I feel far more done with it than I have about most MMOs I've finished with - I still go back to LOTRO and DDO from time to time, and I went back to City of Heroes and GW1 over and over and over again. I just don't have that feeling here at all.

[Fordel]

I'm usually plugged into the net like Neo when beta information is around. This time around, I've barely kept track of any of it.

[apocrypha]

It's a good break up, mind you, amiable and we'd still be friends because really we just drifted apart, but a break up nonetheless.

You just know there's gonna be a nostalgia fling though.

[Sjofn]

Absolutely. I'll know better, but not be able to help myself, because man, we had some fun times together, you know?

[apocrypha]

Analogy bordering on creepy now!

Moving swiftly back on topic, yeah I'll be giving MoP a go when it's out. I've also found my urge to play WoW sneaks up and then fades away again very, very quickly if I indulge it. I've just unsubbed again after havng resubbed for only 2 months. But, I have several good friends who will be playing it and playing anything with them is more fun than playing Teh Bestest Game Evar without them.

[Rasix]

I don't think it's too early to ask this; in light of SWTOR, GW2, and the current information we have about the aforementioned titles and MoP, who all's still planning on playing this when it releases?

Eh, I think I'm done with WoW.  I know if I resub, I'll just get a panda to Outlands and quit again.

There's too much that I'm interested in playing that will compete with a game that I no longer find compelling.  I'm also way, way behind the curve.  I never even touched the new 80-85 content.  I just got a goblin to Outlands and.. quit.

But, never say never.  Sometimes you just get the bug to play, but if I do come back, I doubt it will be for very long.

[Merusk]

Funnily I'm the opposite.  I thought I was done and didn't have a second thought about returning.  The wife sent me a rezz scroll so she could get the mount and I'm addicted all over.  The raid finder & dungeon finder gives me exactly what I cared about: seeing bosses, doing fights without any of the inter-guild politics.   Sure, sometimes I get shit groups and sometimes I rage but it's so much more accessible now.   

So long as I don't care about being a 2nd class citizen with loot it's even more casual than it was when I was raiding.   Two to three hours on the weekend and I've got all the valor and have run my raids.  Done! 

Not to mention I'm not stuck with any one character anymore.  In a guild you were the slot you'd applied with.  Tank, Healer, DPS.  Now that I can play whatever I feel like I've got 4 raid-capable characters now and I'm working on the 5th.  In and out in a day or less.  Sure, the gearing's slower (esp. with assholes looting pieces to trade later) but they're trying to address that in MoP.  Addiction, man.. addiction.

[Ginaz]

Just checked my account last night and saw the beta option available.  I'll try it when I get home tonight.  Like others here, I'm less excited about this expansion than the others.  Mostly because I think having playable pandas is pants on head retarded and the obvious pandering to their Asian market with the setting.

[Merusk]

No more than sexy elves are pants on the head retarded pandering to teenage males while stone castles, wizards and magic swords aren't pandering to the western demographic.

[SurfD]

Does that mean Tauren were intentionally designed to pander to the Weed Smoking Hippie crowd?

[Sjofn]

Those castles are clearly trying to corner Europe!


edit: Seriously, if the "Asian theme" in MoP is anything like the other vaguely cultural themes the other races have, it's as likely to annoy the Asian players as to pander to them, because it will be a huge mishmosh of the different Asian cultures, giving off a delightful "whatever, they're all the same, rite?" vibe.