Mists of Pandaria

[Rokal]

Wow, they really broke the creative bank with that new rogue spell. Execute.... but with a dagger! Identical to backstab as it currently functions for assassination spec, although now they've given it a brand new name.  

The mage, druid, and warlock spells all seem pretty cool. Paladin's new spell ought to be useful.

Edit: Given that the rogue spell is lvl 70, it's probably not the 'new' spell for Mists. Instead, it's a slightly repurposed backstab for assassination spec (sub spec still gets backstab). Let's hope thats the case anyway.

[Wolf]

it's a backstab that works from the front - it's directly adressing an issue and making the muti-spec not utterly useless on some encounters plus making positioning in bigger raids slightly more easier. Not enough space for all cats & rogues in the back? No problem.

[SurfD]

I think all of the 87 stuff will be pretty broken. Look at the mage one. Arcane mage with double CDs 

The mage one seems very gimmick ish, what with the 4 second window.  Pop all your cooldowns, get 3 seconds of dps (like, what 3 casts when you factor in the global cooldown) then poof, back to start?  Its not going to be a dps booster unless used insanely creatively.

[Ironwood]

The way I read it, it was much more of an 'INCOMING DAMAGE SPIKE FROM BOSS', poof, I'm saved and at full health, just to make it easier on the healers.

It all looks even more ass than Cataclysm.

[Sheepherder]

World of Warcraft: Mist of Pandaria 5.0.9 Patch Notes:

Druid:

- Based on internal testing the Symbiosis ability never existed.  Now let us never speak of this again.

[Miasma]

I do not like my priest talents and wonder what happens to all the important stuff I have in my trees now, like all the crap that actually increases how much healing I do...  Whole lot of pvp stuff in there but I don't do much of that.

[Wolf]

all of that is integrated into your spec. Instead of the balance team assuming you clicked your 15% increased healing on x and y talent and your z ability talent and balancing the game accordingly, they just give you the increased 15% healing on x and y and the ability z as you level up. It's like the summary skills on crack.

Think of the new talents as a combination of talents & glyphs, that you can always switch on the fly depending on what you're doing. Some stuff you use for pvp, some you use for pve, some you use for very specific pve encounters. On the new talent tool, after you pick a spec, you can filter the abilities you get by class and spec and see exactly when you're getting penance or circle of healing.

I'm still not entirely sold, as the choices are a bit limited for hybrids (and I play a shadow priest myself), but check out a pure class' ones if you want to see the system shine. For example the 75lvl of warlocks.

[Ironwood]

It's utter wank, but I can rely on Rokal to come in and tell me how wondrous and rock hard it'll make my penis if I just GIVE IT A CHANCE.

[Wolf]

To be honest I respect where they're coming from. Old talents (and cata ones to be honest) are silly - why have a talent that makes your spec heal for 15% more and then balance the game assuming everyone has that talent, instead of just cut out the middleman and have that be the baseline for the spec. Why have two glyphs one to make one ability pve-y and one to make another one pvp-y, instead of just adding those to the baseline of the abilities. Make specs/classes "different" and "cool" by them having "different" and "cool" abilities, buttons that are fun to press, and then have the stripped down, relatively clear cut choices that have limited application based on what you're doing at the moment (arenas vs battlegrounds, different raid encounters, etc). A discipline priest has a different gameplay than a holy priest by virtue of having strong shields, penance, atonement and divine aegis and having to play around the limitations and strengths of those aspects. The act of me clicking on the divine aegis talent is irrelevent to said gameplay. My issue with the system is that, like I said above, that choice is somewhat limited for a DPS spec, when the other two specs on that class are both healers, not with the system itself.

Than again, I still enjoy the game and have a staff that turns me into a lady dragon. So I might just be fanboying it up :)

[Ingmar]

I still find myself utterly paralyzed between some of the warrior choices now that I see this. That seems better to me in some way than the non-choices I was making before.

[luckton]

DK's getting an Undead Charm  

Edit: Oh fuck, they're making some heal-spells spec specific?     You mean...no more Prot or Ret Pallys bubbling up and spamming Holy Light? 

Y U NO DO THIS YEARS AGO, BLIZ?!

[Simond]

It's utter wank, but I can rely on Rokal to come in and tell me how wondrous and rock hard it'll make my penis if I just GIVE IT A CHANCE.

It's changing "spec" from "diablo skill tree" to "advanced class". Which, essentially, is how "diablo skill tree"s always end up being anyway; this just removes the "Get optimal spec from class forum/EJ/etc, copy into game" part.

[Ironwood]

Yay !!!


No, wait.  That's wank.

[Rokal]

It's utter wank, but I can rely on Rokal to come in and tell me how wondrous and rock hard it'll make my penis if I just GIVE IT A CHANCE.

Actually, I prefer the old talent trees that were completely bloated and the Cata talent trees to the MoP 'trees'.

A couple weeks ago when we were working on heroic Beth, our Marksmanship hunter had to move some points around so that his spec was better at handling aoe. After he moved a couple points around, it was like night and day in his ability to handle spiderlings. I think situations like that are actually pretty cool. I know the counter-argument is 'well, the aoe spec is also cookie cutter' but this player found a medium that he was happy with so that he could keep one spec that was good at aoe and single target dps. I think the game should have more decisions like that, not less.

Looking at the rogue 'talent trees' in MoP, 95% of the abilities are about making choices for pvp. The remaining choices that do impact PvE are very easy choices to make. I don't think the system is any better.

What I was posting about with enthusiasm was the new abilities, some of which seem pretty cool.

[caladein]

The situation you described, probably involving picking up Bombardment and swapping Frenzy in BM for Entrapment in Survival, are exactly the kinds of choices that the new talent trees are about.

Outside of those 2-3 choices, everything else in the trees is fixed anyway.

[Sheepherder]

I still find myself utterly paralyzed between some of the warrior choices now that I see this. That seems better to me in some way than the non-choices I was making before.

I don't see how you could be.

Someone at Blizzard should rename Warbringer "Improved Blinked Out Of", see if any higher-ups notice.  Which gives you your PvE and PvP option in T1

In T2 Enraged Regeneration is for PvE, Second Wind is for PvP, and Impending Victory is for soloing old raids.

All of T3 is for PvP, but Piercing Howl is the most likely one to get used in an instance.  A tank might be able to put Cripple to some use.

In T4 Rude Interruption is for the fury warrior, and you actually have two viable options for tanking or PvP.

In T5 Deadly Calm is for burst DPS/Threat, Death Wish is really fucking weak, and Bull Rush is for DPS on any fight where you can get 2+ charges off.

In T6 Bladestorm is 2H AoE, Shockwave is 1H AoE, and Avatar paired WW or Cleave is probably better AoE DPS anyways.

Lastly, if we're lucky the apparent lack of a stance requirement on abilities is not a bug and nobody will take anything but Avatar because they'll be too busy hammering Whirlwind in Defensive stance.

[Fordel]

I do not like the direction they are seemingly going with druids. You know whats going to make my Moonkins DPS rotation awesome, having to shift into cat for 45 seconds every 3 minutes or whatever.  

[luckton]

I do not like the direction they are seemingly going with druids. You know whats going to make my Moonkins DPS rotation awesome, having to shift into cat for 45 seconds every 3 minutes or whatever.  

What does it matter?  We'll be shooting healing bullets in less than a month 

[Sheepherder]

Oh, I forgot.  Combine Warbringer and Bull Rush.  Sit back, take a long look, and think about it.

I guarantee you Blizzard didn't.

[Fordel]

I do not like the direction they are seemingly going with druids. You know whats going to make my Moonkins DPS rotation awesome, having to shift into cat for 45 seconds every 3 minutes or whatever.  

What does it matter?  We'll be shooting healing bullets in less than a month 

I'll be getting the healing bullets shot at me technically, but these are posts better spent in our quest to 400!

[Merusk]

DK's getting an Undead Charm  

Edit: Oh fuck, they're making some heal-spells spec specific?     You mean...no more Prot or Ret Pallys bubbling up and spamming Holy Light? 

Y U NO DO THIS YEARS AGO, BLIZ?!

Could be OK but it'll be mostly shit.  DKs don't want to be melee hunters, swapping out undead pets based on group comp and having to re-charm every 30 mins.  Hell, I think most would be A-ok without having to micromanage the ghoul in the first place. (Worst part of Unholy for me.)

[Fordel]

The DK pet is one of the best parts about DKs for me.

[luckton]

Well we're going to Pandaria...I could understand the benefit of Undead charming in the frozen wastelands of Northrend where Arthas' undead army sits around shooting the breeze, but after that, just how much undead is one going to find outside of dungeons and raids in an Asian-themed jungle?

[Fordel]

You'll charm some panda's dead ancestors and love it.

[Ingmar]

I still find myself utterly paralyzed between some of the warrior choices now that I see this. That seems better to me in some way than the non-choices I was making before.

I don't see how you could be.

Someone at Blizzard should rename Warbringer "Improved Blinked Out Of", see if any higher-ups notice.  Which gives you your PvE and PvP option in T1

In T2 Enraged Regeneration is for PvE, Second Wind is for PvP, and Impending Victory is for soloing old raids.

All of T3 is for PvP, but Piercing Howl is the most likely one to get used in an instance.  A tank might be able to put Cripple to some use.

In T4 Rude Interruption is for the fury warrior, and you actually have two viable options for tanking or PvP.

In T5 Deadly Calm is for burst DPS/Threat, Death Wish is really fucking weak, and Bull Rush is for DPS on any fight where you can get 2+ charges off.

In T6 Bladestorm is 2H AoE, Shockwave is 1H AoE, and Avatar paired WW or Cleave is probably better AoE DPS anyways.

Lastly, if we're lucky the apparent lack of a stance requirement on abilities is not a bug and nobody will take anything but Avatar because they'll be too busy hammering Whirlwind in Defensive stance.

From a PVE tanking perspective:

T1: Warbringer is my last choice. The other two both have good points, I find it hard to choose between them.
T2: Yes, this one is obvious.
T3: These are all good. You may not have noticed that concussion blow is gone. That makes throwdown much more appealing.
T4: Hard choice between a ranged interrupt and an area interrupt, but I probably go with gag order since I'd have to spend 6 months learning that no, heroic throw does not interrupt, like I do every time I try to PVP as something other than prot.
T5: The other obvious one.
T6: No freaking clue what will be best. It would suck to lose the control aspect of shockwave in some situations, but avatar might be more versatile. Bladestorm is probably the least useful for a tank.

[Ingmar]

Well we're going to Pandaria...I could understand the benefit of Undead charming in the frozen wastelands of Northrend where Arthas' undead army sits around shooting the breeze, but after that, just how much undead is one going to find outside of dungeons and raids in an Asian-themed jungle?

There are a shitload of ghosts and spirits and other undead sorts of things in Asian folklore, you shouldn't be worried.

If you're really lucky, there will be some of these guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRZ1yid7sYY

 

[Fordel]

Is gag order actually gone, I haven't checked the warrior specialization spells.

[Ingmar]

Gag order is a talent. Concussion blow is GONE though. (QQ)

[luckton]

I dislike the artistic style of these new talent icons, and how they've gone back and changed current ones. 

[Ingmar]

What classes changed? Warrior ones look the same to me, haven't delved into others yet.

[luckton]

What classes changed? Warrior ones look the same to me, haven't delved into others yet.

The T6 Mage ones make we want to choke a bitch.

[Rokal]

The situation you described, probably involving picking up Bombardment and swapping Frenzy in BM for Entrapment in Survival, are exactly the kinds of choices that the new talent trees are about.

Outside of those 2-3 choices, everything else in the trees is fixed anyway.

In theory that's what the new talent trees would do. It's taking the few decisions that you currently make with the current talent trees, adding a few more meaningful ones, and removing everything else.

In reality, that isn't the case. You won't see something like bombardment as a talent choice in MoP because it's too punishing for players that don't pick it and are picked for an aoe role in a fight.

[Wolf]

thing is, what you're talking about, actually requires quite a lot of points to shuffle and is a pretty serious DPS loss on all other fights.

Bombardment is standard fair in MM specs, it's picking up Concussive Barrage, Rapid Killing, Rapid Recuperation & Entrapment, which are all but useless on all other fights. The whole idea of the new trees is to cover for that, so you don't have to go respec and respec back, but just switch out a couple of talents and get the same effect.

ps: I had to handle beth banelings on my hunter once, because ours was away. Shittiest night of wow EVER. Especially since we two heal the fight and you cant just run around in the green goo 

[Ironwood]

Oh, I forgot.  Combine Warbringer and Bull Rush.  Sit back, take a long look, and think about it.

I guarantee you Blizzard didn't.

Ouch.  As long as they removed that 'You can Execute When Enraged'.

That would suck.

[Ingmar]

I'm pretty sure they mentioned comboing bull rush with the tier 1 talents in the presentation where they introduced this all in the first place.