Simple questions. Simple answers. Complex questions. Flow charts.

[kildorn]

I haven't used it since vanilla, but back then really odd things would cancel it, like pressing Jump. I'll poke at it when I get home on a few random orcs while doing dailies.

edit: on that note though, if you're doing HoO with a warlock, enslave a Void Seeker, just do NOT keep it through Rajh (it breaks his encounter in a hilarious way), they hit for ~14k/pop and the two in the trash pull before setesh have a 9k AE shadowbolt (the ones that pop out of doors only have that immunity to healing thing, but still melee for 14kish.)

Instant 17k dps lock for as many bosses as you re-enslave him <3

[K9]

I'm taking about it breaking the instant it lands. It seems somewhat random, and I should probably take the time to go through the log sometime. It's not a miss or a resist though since my view jumps to that of the mob for the split second, then the channel breaks.

[SurfD]

I haven't used it since vanilla, but back then really odd things would cancel it, like pressing Jump. I'll poke at it when I get home on a few random orcs while doing dailies.

edit: on that note though, if you're doing HoO with a warlock, enslave a Void Seeker, just do NOT keep it through Rajh (it breaks his encounter in a hilarious way), they hit for ~14k/pop and the two in the trash pull before setesh have a 9k AE shadowbolt (the ones that pop out of doors only have that immunity to healing thing, but still melee for 14kish.)

Instant 17k dps lock for as many bosses as you re-enslave him <3

Care to expand on that? Might be interesting to do just to see what happens.  I could use a bit of Hilarity in the average HoO pug.

[kildorn]

I haven't used it since vanilla, but back then really odd things would cancel it, like pressing Jump. I'll poke at it when I get home on a few random orcs while doing dailies.

edit: on that note though, if you're doing HoO with a warlock, enslave a Void Seeker, just do NOT keep it through Rajh (it breaks his encounter in a hilarious way), they hit for ~14k/pop and the two in the trash pull before setesh have a 9k AE shadowbolt (the ones that pop out of doors only have that immunity to healing thing, but still melee for 14kish.)

Instant 17k dps lock for as many bosses as you re-enslave him <3

Care to expand on that? Might be interesting to do just to see what happens.  I could use a bit of Hilarity in the average HoO pug.

They drop a void zone that heals ~10%/second that you need to move them out of on the trash pull.

When I had one on Rajh, he did his center stomp/AE move that we all burn through.. but his health wasn't going down.

Turns out he killed my void seeker in the AE, since enslaved demons don't have avoidance, which dropped a 10%/second healing zone that he was rooted in. So he went into Fire AE mode and came out at 100% ;)

[kildorn]

I'm taking about it breaking the instant it lands. It seems somewhat random, and I should probably take the time to go through the log sometime. It's not a miss or a resist though since my view jumps to that of the mob for the split second, then the channel breaks.

Do you have spell queuing enabled?

[K9]

Yes, but I wouldn't queue anything after MC; I guess I might have double spammed the button.

[Sheepherder]

Mind Control checks resist, hit, and range every tick rather that just at the start of the cast, with a second check right after the spell is cast (heartbeat resist is the term Blizzard uses).  The range check is, as I recall, designed so that as you approach the max range of the spell the chance to get a resist increases significantly.

[K9]

Well it wouldn't be a miss since I'm way overcapped for hit (lolhealergear), and I'm usually well within max range thanks to mind soothe. It could be a resist I guess, but getting 2-3 back to back without even a second of channel seems odd.

[Sheepherder]

The first check is at cast.  The second check is at ~0.5 seconds in.

[apocrypha]

I'm taking about it breaking the instant it lands.

This was happening with my Hex in VP yesterday. Turned out the rogue was putting fucking poison dot on the Adept. Dipshit.

[Zetor]

The heartbeat CC breaks make me rage on my resto shaman sometimes (it's not an issue on my ele spec, since I'm hit-capped). Hex breaking 4 seconds after it's applied, even without the mob taking any damage... fffuuuu. Same with bind elemental, but at least that's recastable.

[Sheepherder]

This was happening with my Hex in VP yesterday. Turned out the rogue was putting fucking poison dot on the Adept. Dipshit.

How did he manage that without hitting it?

[Ingmar]

Fan of Knives?

[Sheepherder]

I would have suspected that FoN damage would break the Hex rather than the poison.  Then again, I don't really know what the break chance/damage relation is.

[Azuredream]

From what I saw from our mutilate rogue the actual FoK damage is pretty pitiful, the poison does an overwhelming majority of the damage, if they're AoEing with it.

[Ashamanchill]

My new issue is, as a tank, the mage (or et al.) not ccing of the pull, but doing it on one of the mobs I am swiping (or HotRing on my pally). HEY DUMMY!!! DON'T CC the mob right next to me, then bitch that it aggros you next cooldown!

[apocrypha]

This was happening with my Hex in VP yesterday. Turned out the rogue was putting fucking poison dot on the Adept. Dipshit.

How did he manage that without hitting it?

He was hitting it. Took me a while to work out what was going on but when the tank said "sap star, hex moon" the rogue was sapping the star and then stabbing the moon target, before my hex landed.

[kildorn]

My new issue is, as a tank, the mage (or et al.) not ccing of the pull, but doing it on one of the mobs I am swiping (or HotRing on my pally). HEY DUMMY!!! DON'T CC the mob right next to me, then bitch that it aggros you next cooldown!

I was tanking a group last night where I would mark a trap for the hunter, and he'd walk in front of me and drop an ice trap on the ground. THANKS. THAT IS SO HELPFUL. ><

[Sjofn]

You know, tanks managed for YEARS having hunters drop traps in front of them. 

[kildorn]

Yeah, and we've moved beyond the dark ages! We even let hunters into groups now!

[Ironwood]

BUT THEY NINJA OUR STUFF.

[kildorn]

BUT THEY NINJA OUR STUFF.

Man, the stat revamp has lead to some hilarious ninja accusations. Like boomkin rolling on a spi/int staff and getting yelled at for it, and people telling my DK to stop rolling on dps 2h weapons STILL. :P

[Ironwood]

Yeah.  I got told off for rolling on a hit cloak - because it also had dodge.  That's part of the problem now;  there's really no set 'tanking' stuff for warriors, so the itemisation leads to confusing like this.

Reforging was a fuck stupid idea, followed closely by fucking Mastery.

[caladein]

Plate tanking gear is Dodge or Parry with Mastery (or sometimes Hit or Expertise) and there's about as much of it as there is for other "role plus armor type" combinations from a quick look on Wowhead.

Tanks have always dipped into "DPS gear" for their threat stats too.

[Ironwood]

Yeah, but you rarely get Dodge and Parry on the same item, so it's usually mixed with other stats.  The cloak I was talking about was Dodge and Hit.

Sure, I can reforge that to be Dodge, Hit and Parry, but the DPS can also reforge it to be Hit Dodge and, well, whatever the fuck they want.  That's why it really falls down - much smaller pool of items.  (Also, the weapons suck balls.)

This is in the initial instances of course - as far as I can see, the actual 'fit' of items gets a lot better in raids and with the Point gear, though I think that just makes it all the more stupid.

[Ingmar]

No dps should ever be rolling on something with dodge or parry, the only items that should cause fights really are the ones with 2 out of hit/expertise/mastery and nothing else, since people tend to put blinders on and not realize those stats are for everyone.

Getting yelled at as the tank for rolling on dodge/hit gear is just a sign of a really, really special snowflake dpser.

[Maledict]

I was about to say, thats nothing to do with reforgin and mastery and everything to do with unbelievably stupid dps. Any item with dodge on it is a tank item - reforgin only allows you to swap 40% of the stat, so even after reforging its still a terrible item for dps. Heck, the raid feasts were originally giving anyone who had ANY dodge rating at all anywhere on their gear tank stats because blizzard assumed that every person with dodge must be a tank.

DPS are beyond stupid when levelling though - and I say that as a DPS class. Maybe its because of the long instance queuea, but they seem to feel the need to grab every item possible, possibly because it took them 30 minutes to queue.

[Ragnoros]

possibly because it took them 30 minutes to queue.

You would think after X years people would have gotten a clue and rolled a class that can tank by now. It took me about five minutes to figure it out.

That or you would think blizzard would have gotten a clue and retrofitted tanking/healing specs into current dps only classes. I could easily see combat becoming a rogue tank tree. Likewise demonology becoming a warlock tank tree, with their demon form working like druid bear form. Those two trees are the respective red headed child trees of both classes, so neither would be missed. Arcane could become the Mage healing spec. Arcane Barrage = Holy shock. Arcane Missiles = Penance. Arcane Explosion = Holy Explosion. Arcane Blast = Heal. Throw in a couple more and you're set.

Sorry, servers are down. /derail

[K9]

Lack of specs isn't really the problem, it's just the case that more than 60% of the population want to play and only want to play DPS.

The proportions of level 85 toons by class across all servers:

Code:

1	-	Paladin	272,243 (15%)
2	-	Druid	230,541	(13%)
3	-	Mage	193,776	(11%)
4	-	Warrior	190,498	(11%)
5	-	DK	176,720	(10%)
6	-	Priest	171,618	(9%)
7	-	Shaman	171,318	(9%)
8	-	Hunter	169,495	(9%)
9	-	Warlock	131,139	(7%)
10	-	Rogue	110,730	(6%)

SOURCE

As you can see, there's no shortage of people playing classes that can tank and heal; they just don't want to.

[Paelos]

And that's fine, if they can actually PLAY dps.

[kildorn]

possibly because it took them 30 minutes to queue.

You would think after X years people would have gotten a clue and rolled a class that can tank by now. It took me about five minutes to figure it out.

That or you would think blizzard would have gotten a clue and retrofitted tanking/healing specs into current dps only classes. I could easily see combat becoming a rogue tank tree. Likewise demonology becoming a warlock tank tree, with their demon form working like druid bear form. Those two trees are the respective red headed child trees of both classes, so neither would be missed. Arcane could become the Mage healing spec. Arcane Barrage = Holy shock. Arcane Missiles = Penance. Arcane Explosion = Holy Explosion. Arcane Blast = Heal. Throw in a couple more and you're set.

Sorry, servers are down. /derail

The issue is people when given the option still don't want to queue as anything with a high degree of responsibility. I see tons of ret pallies, shadow priests, arms/fury warriors, frost/unholy DKs, boomkins, and even ferals (lawl) queued as DPS who sit through the entire queue.

I queue as a healer or a tank when I want to play for a bit and get my dailies out of the way. I queue as DPS when I don't want to be stressed out over tanking or healing a pug.

But in general, giving every class a tank or healing spec wouldn't solve the queue times. The only way to solve the queue times would be to do that, and make healing/tanking instances end-of-wrath level easy again. Because right now starting out in 333ish gear as a tank? Heroic queues are going to stress you right the hell out in a pug.

[Ironwood]

Yup.  Tanking Pugs is no fun.  At all.

[Minvaren]

Agreed.  But the queue wasn't really great for DPS in LK either.

[Rasix]

It wasn't terrible though.  In a session you could queue for your daily, get some shit done, have your instance pop and have a reasonable expectation of finishing it.

I didn't badge grind for heirlooms on any of my DPS, however.  1 minute queue times for slapping earth shield on a tank and autofollowing wasn't that unbearable. 

[Selby]

Yup.  Tanking Pugs is no fun.  At all.

Exactly.  I've got 3 tanks and I hate PUG tanking for all of them.  People are retarded.