Patch 3.3

[K9]

Dungeons & Raids

    * Players no longer need to kill the final bosses in all four wings of this dungeon in order to teleport to Sapphiron. Teleportation orbs have been added to allow players access back and forth from Sapphiron's lair.

About time.

Twenty-Five Tabards and all the other tabard achievements now require you to equip the tabards instead of just acquiring them.

Huh?

[K9]

edit: doublepost.

[SurfD]

Twenty-Five Tabards and all the other tabard achievements now require you to equip the tabards instead of just acquiring them.

Huh?

Only thing i can think of is that maybe they are planning on adding some BoE tabards to the game, and forcing you to equip and wear the tabard at least once to get credit for the achieve is the only way they could think of to prevent people just handing them around for free points (sort of the same way you could buy 1 of those Harris Pilton bags during BC and pass it around to get the achieve on multiple people)

[K9]

Makes sense I guess.

[Simond]

You're absolutely right. The Forsaken have every right to Lordaeron. After all, for the most part they ARE the people of Lordaeron. Just stinkier and with more bones showing lately. Of course they still deserve to have their ass kicked. After all, they threw the poor innocent orcs into internment camps after the Second War and were totally rotten to the Blood Elves.

 

Nah, I was just pointing out that the Alliance has only one race that's a genuine "native to Azeroth" species, as opposed to the Horde's three, four, come Cataclysm.
Alliance:
Humans: Twice-cursed rogue automata, tainted by Old Gods. Not part of Titans' plans, therefore invasive species.
Dwarves: Once-cursed rogue automata, tainted by Old Gods. Not part of Titans' plans, therefore invasive species.
Gnomes: Once-cursed rogue automata, tainted by Old Gods. Not part of Titans' plans, therefore invasive species.
Night Elves: Mutant trolls, however mutation was caused by Titan-empowered Well of Eternity. Native.
Draenei: Extradimensional invaders (twice over - Draenor wasn't their home either).
Worgen: Thrice-cursed rogue automata, tainted by Old Gods and wherever the fuck the Worgen curse originated. Not part of Titan's plans, therefore invasive species.

Horde
Orcs: Extradimensional invaders.
Trolls: Native species.
Tauren: Native species.
Goblins: Native species
Blood elves: Mutant trolls, however mutation was caused by Titan-empowered Well of Eternity and further mutation from Sunwell...which is a derivative of the Well of Eternity. Therefore native.
Forsaken: Thrice-cursed rogue automata, tainted by Old Gods and the Scourge Plague. Not part of Titans plans, therefore invasive species. However, they have just as much claim to Lordaeron as the worgen do to Gilneas but the Alliance only recognised the Gilnean worgens because King Wrynn is clearly a covert furry.

Conclusion: The Horde has more right to Azeroth than the Alliance does.

[Ashamanchill]

Wow, I must have missed a lot with fast quest text on.

[Mattemeo]

Oh good lord. Please, pretty please, with a cherry on top - do some fucking basic research before you come off like a total lunat... oh, wait. Too late, nevermind.

[Nebu]

Does any of that lore mean that I no longer have to kill 10 rats?

[AutomaticZen]

No, the rats are thrice-cursed rogue wildlife.  They have no right to Azeroth.

[Kageh]

Humans are descendants from the degenerated "weak" Vyrkul children that survived, no? And Vyrkul were natives of Northrend? That would make them natives.

Dwarves resulted from degenerated "earthen", used by the Titans as workers, so yes, invasive.

Gnomes were some sort of weird mutation from robotic servants of the Titans, so yes, invasive too.

On the Worgen subject, I think there is speculation of the original species being somehow related to druidic magic on Azeroth, given the Scythe of Elune stuff and all, but until then canon is to think of them as an alien species summoned by Arugal after initial research by Ur.

About the horde "native" races (Tauren, Troll, Goblin): the fact that there isn't lore suggesting the contrary doesn't mean those weren't Titan creations at one point or the other.

[AutomaticZen]

Humans are descendants from the degenerated "weak" Vyrkul children that survived, no? And Vyrkul were natives of Northrend? That would make them natives.

Dwarves resulted from degenerated "earthen", used by the Titans as workers, so yes, invasive.

Gnomes were some sort of weird mutation from robotic servants of the Titans, so yes, invasive too.

On the Worgen subject, I think there is speculation of the original species being somehow related to druidic magic on Azeroth, given the Scythe of Elune stuff and all, but until then canon is to think of them as an alien species summoned by Arugal after initial research by Ur.

About the horde "native" races (Tauren, Troll, Goblin): the fact that there isn't lore suggesting the contrary doesn't mean those weren't Titan creations at one point or the other.

The Vykrul were a seed race, like the giants and earthen.  Most of the ones who look mostly human are Titan-creations, made in their image.

[Soulflame]

I was under the impression that Vyrkul, dwarves, and I guess gnomes were all the result of Titan mechanical creations that were affected by the Curse of Flesh?

[Delmania]

I kinda like the idea that "there must always be a Lich King" in theory. Like he's become this sort of eternal force that can never really be destroyed but only thwarted, bigger than Ner'zhul or Arthas or whoever, this sort of god of undeath that gobbles up the soul of whatever mortal shell it's inhabiting.

But this "brainless zombies are way more dangerous than ones directed by an evil intelligence" crap is for the birds.

Someone on Wowhead raised a good point that pretty much confirms this.  How can there be new death knights if there is no Lich King to raise them?

[Nevermore]

Same way new Death Knights still go to Outland.  I look at the whole DK starter area as a flashback, so there's no reason why Arthas couldn't have made any of these 'new' DKs (even the Worgen).

[Fordel]

They fell through a Bronze Dragon time Portal.

[Sheepherder]

Someone on Wowhead raised a good point that pretty much confirms this.  How can there be new death knights if there is no Lich King to raise them?

Kickin' it old school.

[WindupAtheist]

arf arf arf

You should have just quit responding for a while like you usually do when you get owned. It would have given the impression that you don't really give a shit and were maybe just taking the piss. Instead you posted all that shit and looked like a desperate psycho.

Someone on Wowhead raised a good point that pretty much confirms this.  How can there be new death knights if there is no Lich King to raise them?

What Nevermore said. There's an implicit assumption that you're moving forward in time as you level. That's how Hemet Nesingwary can be standing in Outland and Northrend at the same time. You're to assume that by the time you get to Sholozar Basin, he's packed up and left Nagrand rather than standing there handing out the same quests to other people. Level 68-78 characters will be running around Northrend getting taunted by Arthas at every turn forever.

[DraconianOne]

You're absolutely right. The Forsaken have every right to Lordaeron. After all, for the most part they ARE the people of Lordaeron. Just stinkier and with more bones showing lately. Of course they still deserve to have their ass kicked. After all, they threw the poor innocent orcs into internment camps after the Second War and were totally rotten to the Blood Elves.

 

The Forsaken have every right to Lordaeron because our plague is better than yours. Also, we can hold our breath for longer.

And no, they were not and never were rotten to the Blood Elves, even as Lordaeronainaians. That was that dick Garithos who survived the plague. Obviously it was jealousy because he never got the chance to become Forsaken or hang out with Sylvanas, who, by the way, was a Blood Elf. Or High Elf. Whatever. So the Forsaken were so rotten to Blood Elves that they made one their leader.

[Delmania]

And no, they were not and never were rotten to the Blood Elves, even as Lordaeronainaians. That was that dick Garithos who survived the plague. Obviously it was jealousy because he never got the chance to become Forsaken or hang out with Sylvanas, who, by the way, was a Blood Elf. Or High Elf. Whatever. So the Forsaken were so rotten to Blood Elves that they made one their leader.

In other words, we don't discriminate.  We hate everyone the same.

[Lantyssa]

Someone on Wowhead raised a good point that pretty much confirms this.  How can there be new death knights if there is no Lich King to raise them?

Because I want to do a fantasy reinactment of Underworld, only Kate Beckingsale gets to be the hybrid and I get to pretend to be her.

Also what Nevermore said.

[WindupAtheist]

And no, they were not and never were rotten to the Blood Elves, even as Lordaeronainaians. That was that dick Garithos who survived the plague. Obviously it was jealousy because he never got the chance to become Forsaken or hang out with Sylvanas, who, by the way, was a Blood Elf. Or High Elf. Whatever. So the Forsaken were so rotten to Blood Elves that they made one their leader.

The point, you have missed it.

[Jayce]

As far as I know it's never really cleared up whether the Titans expected gnomes and dwarves to be native fauna.  Presumably they created the trolls/elves as well.  Speculating about whether one was in the plan and the other wasn't isn't valid.  I don't recall any creation story beyond the Vrykul connection for humans.

Regarding the time scale while leveling - in addition to Hemet, Tirion Fordring is still a hermit in EPL and Saurfang Jr is still a questgiver in Nagrand, in addition to their later appearances.  One wonders why they didn't use phasing to eliminate them for players who later were at the Wrathgate.

[Oban]

LORELOL

[Sjofn]

As far as I know it's never really cleared up whether the Titans expected gnomes and dwarves to be native fauna.  Presumably they created the trolls/elves as well.  Speculating about whether one was in the plan and the other wasn't isn't valid.  I don't recall any creation story beyond the Vrykul connection for humans.

In Uldaman during the loregasm, they say both the dwarves and troggs are unexpected variants on the earthen, but dwarves are cool and troggs are not (I forget why).

[Tannhauser]

IIRC, troggs were the first, failed experiment.  Dwarves come from the successful line of Earthen.

[Sjofn]

I looked it up on WoWwiki, the troggs and dwarves are both variations upon the Earthern. From the loregasm dialogue:

What happens when the Earthen destabilize?

There are two potential results when the Earthen's synthesis matrix destabilizes. Initiating visual aid representation number one.
The first variant matrix is a degenerative product of synthesis, hereby designated with the common nomenclature of "Trogg". This variant maintains strength and stamina comparable to the Earthen, but its cognitive processing power has been almost completely compromised. Force of will and a strong sense of cunning are the only driving factors in the psyche of the trogg.

Troggs?! Are the troggs you mention the same as the ones in the world today?

I am unable to process your chronological reference in comparison to the recording of this data, my apologies.
The trogg retains some composition of Azeroth's various stone core compounds, but the loss of cognitive power makes this variant unacceptable to the Creators.
The trogg procreates as per a standard biomass. By default it consumes stone and anything else it can acquire, including other troggs. Cannibalism is considered unacceptable by the Creators.  (Sjofn comment: Uh oh, look out, trolls!)

It then goes on to talk about dwarves and how the Creators are cool with dwarves because they aren't dumb and don't eat each other and stuff. It's pretty long, so I will just give you a link to the rest. :)


EDIT: And given the creators were okay with the dwarves even though they weren't planned, I think Simond's blathering about them not having any claim to Azeroth is EXTRA doofy.

[Rasix]

LORELOL

[WindupAtheist]

For actually going to wowwiki, looking up game dialogue, pasting it into this thread as part of a debate, and provoking another disgruntled post from Rasix, I bestow upon Sjofn the rank of Apprentice Nerd-Warrior. Congratulations. To continue up the ranks I recommend developing strong opinions on which quarter-century old RPGs ripped what off from who, and the relative combat capabilities of an Imperial Star Destroyer versus the starship Enterprise.

[Lakov_Sanite]

For actually going to wowwiki, looking up game dialogue, pasting it into this thread as part of a debate, and provoking another disgruntled post from Rasix, I bestow upon Sjofn the rank of Apprentice Nerd-Warrior. Congratulations. To continue up the ranks I recommend developing strong opinions on which quarter-century old RPGs ripped what off from who, and the relative combat capabilities of an Imperial Star Destroyer versus the starship Enterprise.

Not to de-rail...or maybe specifically to de-rail the loregasms here...

Who would ever argue the star wars style spaceships are better than star-trek ones? I mean I understand nerds getting in a superman/hulk fight but star trek seems massively overpowered.

[WindupAtheist]

For all that it's shinier, Trek is generally at a massive tech disadvantage. When Voyager needs to cross a substantial portion of the galaxy, it's the thrust of an entire series. In Star Wars, any random civilian can buy a hyperdrive capable of making that trip in a day or two. From a junkyard. Maybe pick up a couple of sentient robots with the change.

[Sjofn]

For actually going to wowwiki, looking up game dialogue, pasting it into this thread as part of a debate, and provoking another disgruntled post from Rasix, I bestow upon Sjofn the rank of Apprentice Nerd-Warrior. Congratulations. To continue up the ranks I recommend developing strong opinions on which quarter-century old RPGs ripped what off from who, and the relative combat capabilities of an Imperial Star Destroyer versus the starship Enterprise.

Woo!

[Lakov_Sanite]

How sentient are SW robots? I always thought it was sort of mimickry but not sentience.

[Merusk]

How sentient are SW robots? I always thought it was sort of mimickry but not sentience.

Fully sentient.

Which makes mindwipes seen as a sort of murder by some folks.  Others say "It's a fucking toaster that thinks.  They don't have a soul, so it doesn't matter!"

[Fordel]

Yet, the SW universe has yet to master colour television though! 

[Lakov_Sanite]

Looks like the winged horse will be the icecrown version of mim's head and this will be the new proto drake.