Patch 3.3

[Gobbeldygook]

Maybe not in Arena due to the old dead zone and the small size of arenas, but in BGs and open world there was a time when they where just fucking horribly OPed. I think it was some time in BC.

Hunters were overpowered in arenas for a few months in early Wrath.  They were nerfed pretty quick.  Hunters usually make a decent showing at the arena tournaments.

[Simond]

It's going to be burny lava Bolvar.

[Ingmar]

Survival hunters have some popularity in 3v3 I think, they're at least in that prot warrior/resto druid/hunter comp which apparently does pretty well.

[Montague]

Thinking about this some,

That makes way too much sense.

Disc One Final Dungeon

[Lantyssa]

[Lakov_Sanite]

Anyone remember the ghouls event before lich king came out? Imagine that, times 100.  That's what I'd imagine a fully unchecked scourge would be like, it does sort of make sense, not in that arthas is keeping the scourge from being evil but he's making them an army, not a rampant zombie plague.

[WindupAtheist]

Then again, his willingness to widely distribute zombie plague would seems to indicate that he's not really trying to prevent a massive zombie plague.

[Ashamanchill]

Then again, his willingness to widely distribute zombie plague would seems to indicate that he's not really trying to prevent a massive zombie plague.

Lol, I'm not really into the lore byt that sentence cracked me up.

[Sjofn]

Thinking about this some,

That makes way too much sense.

A girl can dream, can't she? 

[K9]

All hail Lich Queen Jaina!

[Lantyssa]

Staghelm should step up.  Maybe fight Wrynn to the death for the honor.

[Rasix]

I'm going to kill the fucking lot of you.

[WindupAtheist]

Muahaha.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Then again, his willingness to widely distribute zombie plague would seems to indicate that he's not really trying to prevent a massive zombie plague.

I agree with you, but this is wow lolore. There are zombie plagues and then there are zombie PLAGUES. My example of the wotlk event is what a real cross-species zombie outbreak would be like, something im assuming is what this whole 'arthas keeping it in check' is referring to. Thus far all outbreaks of undeadness have been fairly localized and the undead are controlled and semi-sentient. 

I just think it's stupid that arthas is still in there anywhere.

[WindupAtheist]

This is shaping up to be bad even for WoW lolore. I mean that Arthas book just came out a couple months ago stating that he was in charge and had basically made Ner'zhul his bitch. Now he's a "fading presence in the Lich King's mind" as they put it. They make a big deal out of his cutting out his own heart and being totally evil, but he was holding the Scourge back all along. I mean... what? Even for Blizzard, WHAT?

[SurfD]

All hail Lich Queen Jaina!

Ohh, you have NO idea :P

Supposedly, in a "what if" sequence during one of the WoW comics, Jaina is shown a vision of what would have happened if she had stayed with Arthas through the events of Stratholme, and followed him to northrend.

http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=570&stc=1&d=1252545751

[WindupAtheist]

I kinda like the idea that "there must always be a Lich King" in theory. Like he's become this sort of eternal force that can never really be destroyed but only thwarted, bigger than Ner'zhul or Arthas or whoever, this sort of god of undeath that gobbles up the soul of whatever mortal shell it's inhabiting.

But this "brainless zombies are way more dangerous than ones directed by an evil intelligence" crap is for the birds.

[Fordel]

I kinda like the idea that "there must always be a Lich King" in theory. Like he's become this sort of eternal force that can never really be destroyed but only thwarted, bigger than Ner'zhul or Arthas or whoever, this sort of god of undeath that gobbles up the soul of whatever mortal shell it's inhabiting.

But this "brainless zombies are way more dangerous than ones directed by an evil intelligence" crap is for the birds.

Seriously, Azeroth has been dealing with mindless zombies for centuries, they aren't any more of a big deal then those man sized spiders or murlocs. The whole acting in a coordinated and intelligent manner is what makes the scourge, scourgey!

[Delmania]

Oh god damn it. So I was looking at transcripts of voice files for 3.3 and...

I had a much longer post, but essentially, if any part of Arthas is holding the Scourge back, it's definitely lollore again.  They played up the whole Lich King is luring us to corrupt us angle, and in that light, I can deal with all the times we've stopped him in that he doesn't want us dead (yet) he wants rather to convert us to his army, and once he's got enough of us, he can unleash the full might of the Scourge.  I can live with that more than "lolArthas".

[Nevermore]

Arthas isn't holding back the scourge, anagram kid is!

[WindupAtheist]

Incidentally, while I don't get the impression that they're going with Sjofn's "fake Uther tricked you to make sure there would be a Lich King" rationalization, here's betting they retcon their way into it by the time it has a chance to really matter a couple expansions from now.

[Delmania]

Based on the lore so far, I never really bought the notion that the players could actually kill the Lich King.  You'd need to nuke Frostmoure, the armor, and Ice Crown Citadel from orbit to be sure, and then there's no way of knowing if you actually wiped out his soul or if you just destroyed his binding.  When we defeat the Lich King, it's more like a Sauron/Tal Rasha thing - he's still around, but too weak to control the Scourge, so someone has to suck it up put on the helment, and fight for control of the Scourge.  Sometimes I wish Saergas would show up and pwn us all.  Oh wait, he's somewhere out there...

As I said in the light that he's not out right attacking us until some more have joined the Dark Side, this lore does work to an extent.

[Simond]

This is shaping up to be bad even for WoW lolore. I mean that Arthas book just came out a couple months ago stating that he was in charge and had basically made Ner'zhul his bitch. Now he's a "fading presence in the Lich King's mind" as they put it. They make a big deal out of his cutting out his own heart and being totally evil, but he was holding the Scourge back all along. I mean... what? Even for Blizzard, WHAT?

If you think that bit of lore is bad, you should probably skip the part about King Rockgroin Hardslab and Saurfang Sr.

[WindupAtheist]

What the whole "Achilles letting Priam have Hector's body" thing? The only really bad part there was Jaina.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Agreeing with wua again here. The worst part about king roidrage was that he was from any interactions with him thus far, one dimensional.  Giving him a little more depth by adding a sort of warriors code to him is only a good thing.

[Fordel]

Was more of a Father to Father thing, but that's just nitpickin.

[SurfD]

Well, except for the whole:

"I wasn't at the Wrath gate, but soldiers who were tell me the horde bombed the alliance!  DEATH TO THE HORDE, ASSAULT ON UNDERCITY!" Roid Rage

then going over to:

"I wasn't at the Wrath Gate, But soldiers who were tell me your son fought with honor!  PEACE AND LOVE! HERE GO GET HIS BODY!"

seem to contradict one and other pretty heavily.

[Sjofn]

Not really. The story could've been told saying Weefang fought with honor, but then OMG FORSAKEN ATTACK, which to King Chin meant the Horde attacked. So he could hold these two thoughts in his head:

"Saurfang Jr. was an alright dude."

"The Forsaken, who are part of the Horde, fucked us at Wrathgate, and I'm gonna hold that entire faction responsible."


Honestly, I liked that little scene. Anything to give King Chin some goddamn depth is OK by me.


EDIT: Also, that scene is from when the Alliance wins the airship race or whatever, right? He knows he won, he doesn't need to be an asshole to Saurfang. I assume he knows losing is not something orcs like.

[LK]

All hail Lich Queen Jaina!

Ohh, you have NO idea :P

Supposedly, in a "what if" sequence during one of the WoW comics, Jaina is shown a vision of what would have happened if she had stayed with Arthas through the events of Stratholme, and followed him to northrend.

http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=570&stc=1&d=1252545751

That's a REALLY stupid What If, but kinda cool. It'd be nice to have a villian that was female.

[Sjofn]

Nonsense! Women can't be male human paladins. 

[WindupAtheist]

I hate to be That Guy (by which I mean I love it) but Varian was always perfectly aware that a rebel faction fired on the Wrathgate and took over Undercity. There's even a moment in the Alliance version of the quest where the group stumbles over some orcish corpses in Undercity and notes that the Horde is also there fighting said rebels.

He just got one good look at Undercity, went "Oh my god look at this place, how much longer are we gonna give people like this free reign?" and jumped to the (completely correct) conclusion that the Forsaken are out to get them anyway.

"Bla bla WUA you're a Varian fanboy and bla bla!"

Fuck you, go read the quest dialogue. Immediately after the Wrathgate the worst he wanted to do was snatch the ruins of Lordaeron away specifically because the Horde had already lost them to a third party. It wasn't until he got in there and saw that it was a reeking zombie hell that his ire shifted to the Forsaken and the Horde as a whole.

[Simond]

The majority of the Alliance have less claim to Azeroth than the Horde does, though.

[WindupAtheist]

You're absolutely right. The Forsaken have every right to Lordaeron. After all, for the most part they ARE the people of Lordaeron. Just stinkier and with more bones showing lately. Of course they still deserve to have their ass kicked. After all, they threw the poor innocent orcs into internment camps after the Second War and were totally rotten to the Blood Elves.

 

[Sheepherder]

That needed Admiral Ackbar, because I think WUA just won the first online lore argument ever in the history of man.

[Sjofn]

You're absolutely right. The Forsaken have every right to Lordaeron. After all, for the most part they ARE the people of Lordaeron. Just stinkier and with more bones showing lately. Of course they still deserve to have their ass kicked. After all, they threw the poor innocent orcs into internment camps after the Second War and were totally rotten to the Blood Elves.