Cataclysm

[Rasix]

outlands takes a week tops

That's one shitty week.

It always is. Good thing I only did it twice in WOLK (DK + new warlock).

[kaid]

All the talent change does for me is makes playing alts more fun since they actually get needed tools early. Yes there is now a pretty clear cookie cutter build for most specs but frankly there always was. You had to spend more points to do it but it was always a case of spec this exact way or you are bad. Yes people could have some loopy builds but most of those were sub optimal.

Also right now a bunch of classes like warlocks/paladins/druids/arcane mages/assassin rogues are very unfinished. The paladin trees are apparently not even what there was supposed to be for this update and GC said to pretty much disregard most of the paladin tree due to coming changes.

[kaid]

outlands takes a week tops

That's one shitty week.

It always is. Good thing I only did it twice in WOLK (DK + new warlock).

With the dungeon finder it does not even take a week any more. I just leveled my shaman alt up through that level range and doing dungeons as they popped for a DPS class I did most of hellfire quests a handfull of nagrand quests and then headed to northrend. Took about two weekday evenings to do.

[Gunzwei]

I'd love to believe that's the case as well, but with all the resources and testing going into all these redone new zones and starter zones in the old world, I'm having my doubts that they will get enough quality time on anything from the 80-85 level ready for release. That's not to say they won't focus on it for the first big patch 4 months later, but that's a long time to wait if you're not doing the goblin dance.

I'm expecting the 85 content to be messed up for a while and lots of half-ass patching till the 2nd raid tier drops right around some new MMO's release date.

[WindupAtheist]

Eh, I'm not concerned about the talent trees. You were never a unique snowflake, you were just doing it wrong. Nobody cared about the added utility of your kooky spec, they just wanted you to do more DPS so they could finish their 5000th Heroic Nexus that much faster.

At least this way newbies get cool spec-related shit right away at 10, not at 40 after spending enough points to keep other specs from picking up those talents and becoming overpowered.

[Ratman_tf]

outlands takes a week tops and wotlk is fast enough not to mention that they are going to give it an exp boost like they did with bc. it's not the roadblock people seem to think it is.

I've done outlands twice, and it crushed my soul each time. I don't recall the numbers, but goddamn if it doesn't feel like forever and ever.

[Lantyssa]

Eh, I'm not concerned about the talent trees. You were never a unique snowflake, you were just doing it wrong. Nobody cared about the added utility of your kooky spec, they just wanted you to do more DPS so they could finish their 5000th Heroic Nexus that much faster.

I don't care that they don't care.  It's for me, not them.  It's also clear that it's not for me any longer, either.  The game that is.  Maybe the 5001st Heroic Nexus can be more fun for them now that I'm not helping them shave 10 seconds off their instance run.

[Ingmar]

outlands takes a week tops

That's one shitty week.

You don't do alts, right? Outland XP is so fast now that I typically hit 68 and head to Northrend somewhere in Zangarmarsh, if I don't skip anything, especially if I hit a few random dungeons on the way through. It goes by so fast I don't really have time to hate it.

[Ironwood]

While you might expect me to pile on the hate, this is correct.  My DK stopped almost exactly a third into Zangermarsh.  Quest XP is just huge this time around.

That said, it means you're doing the shittiest zones in that expansion.

[Rendakor]

My Outland trip is most of Hellfire then most of Nagrand, padded by a few instances after you pick up the quests. Doesn't take long at all.

[Ingmar]

While you might expect me to pile on the hate, this is correct.  My DK stopped almost exactly a third into Zangermarsh.  Quest XP is just huge this time around.

That said, it means you're doing the shittiest zones in that expansion.

Funny, I don't remember setting foot in Shadowmoon Valley or Blade's Edge! 

[proudft]

The only zone of all of them I am really truly sick of is Hellfire Peninsula, since you can't really avoid it and the old world 55-60s don't compare well at all in XP.  Everything else I can alternate, say Terrokar on one guy, Zangar on another, etc.   WTB new level 58-60 zone kkthx.

[Lakov_Sanite]

No, seriously FUCK blades edge.

Now, since you can get a flying mount at 60 it's not so bad but having to do all of that on a land mount? oh hell no.

[Sjofn]

The only zone of all of them I am really truly sick of is Hellfire Peninsula, since you can't really avoid it and the old world 55-60s don't compare well at all in XP.  Everything else I can alternate, say Terrokar on one guy, Zangar on another, etc.   WTB new level 58-60 zone kkthx.

Well some of the old zones they're redoing look like they're going up to 60 so maybe we can skip Hellfire eventually! 

I really like Zangarmarsh, especially with flight at 60 now. Blade's Edge is less shitty with flight, but that zone can still go fuck itself.

[Nebu]

Well some of the old zones they're redoing look like they're going up to 60 so maybe we can skip Hellfire eventually! 

I really like Zangarmarsh, especially with flight at 60 now. Blade's Edge is less shitty with flight, but that zone can still go fuck itself.

Netherstorm makes my eyes angry.  I'd be happy to see that zone disappear as well.  Fortunately with the xp changes, it's quite easy to bypass the zone entirely. 

[Sjofn]

I don't mind Netherstorm but I can see how it would grate on someone to look at for hours. Even back when TBC was it, I would hit 70 before having to do much of it, so it never really wore me out (my first trip to 70 we did Shadowmoon Valley), so I'd only really go there to do dungeons.

[caladein]

The only zone of all of them I am really truly sick of is Hellfire Peninsula, since you can't really avoid it and the old world 55-60s don't compare well at all in XP.  Everything else I can alternate, say Terrokar on one guy, Zangar on another, etc.   WTB new level 58-60 zone kkthx.

Well some of the old zones they're redoing look like they're going up to 60 so maybe we can skip Hellfire eventually!  

I really like Zangarmarsh, especially with flight at 60 now. Blade's Edge is less shitty with flight, but that zone can still go fuck itself.

Silithus and Blasted Lands are both listed as 55-60, but while Blasted Lands looks to be getting a makeover, there's no word on Silithus.

[Ingmar]

I find SMV about 200x uglier, but I'm color-blind so maybe there's something about Netherstorm's colors that I'm immune to.

Cal:

All the zones are getting a makeover to one degree or another; certainly the xp rewards will all be updated, at the very least. Silithus is almost certainly going to require a fairly large revamp just due to it involving the Twilight's Hammer people so much, not to mention the Staghelm stuff there.

[Sjofn]

Staaaaaaaaaagheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelm


waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

[Arinon]

As long as I can completely skip Hellfie I'll be happy.  Fuck that eye-bleed zone.

Also, these talent changes look ass as far as PvP is concerned.  They want to rip out most of the anti-CC stuff but they haven't (so far) shown any changes to the control spells.  Sure combat is supposed to be slower but who wants to go back to eating full duration root/stun/cyclone/poly with minimal counters?  Not me!

[Minvaren]

Funny, I don't remember setting foot in Shadowmoon Valley or Blade's Edge! 

No, seriously FUCK blades edge.

Blade's Edge is less shitty with flight, but that zone can still go fuck itself.

Next on the expansion agenda: a motion for Blade's Edge to go fuck itself.  All in favor?   

[Paelos]

AYE!

[Dren]

I don't mind Netherstorm but I can see how it would grate on someone to look at for hours. Even back when TBC was it, I would hit 70 before having to do much of it, so it never really wore me out (my first trip to 70 we did Shadowmoon Valley), so I'd only really go there to do dungeons.

I just took my hunter through Outlands last week.  Took maybe 3 days.  HF->Zang->Terrokar->1/2 of land west of Shat (can't think of name right now...) -> Northrend.  It really is about 3.5 zones (take your pick) and you are moving on. 

Little over a week later and my hunter is 78.  All blue exp gains while using 1-2 heirloom items.  Seriously it was way way more painful from 0-58.  All due to the amount of travelling I had to do because quest areas were spread out and you had to leave and come back to keep things moving along.  If they update and improve that in the expansion then even that won't be a big deal.

[Ironwood]

Which is all very well, but what you are actually saying is :

They've geared this expansion more to the old zones and the levelling process, whilst at the same time making the levelling easier and quicker, meaning you're going to get to the sucky end, which they haven't put as much into and will probably await a massive patch, sooner.

AWESOME.

Where do I sign up

[Paelos]

Which is all very well, but what you are actually saying is :

They've geared this expansion more to the old zones and the levelling process, whilst at the same time making the levelling easier and quicker, meaning you're going to get to the sucky end, which they haven't put as much into and will probably await a massive patch, sooner.

AWESOME.

Where do I sign up

Which mirrors my earlier fear of STFU AND REROLL BITCHES! Look at the fancy goblin dance! Aren't they awesome? Don't look behind that curtain with 80-85 marked on it.

[Ingmar]

Out of curiosity why are we conjecturing that 80-85 isn't going to get any attention?

[Ironwood]

Because we're playing it thus far and it fucking blows.

[Ingmar]

Can you be more specific? I've been following the feedback on the beta forums and it doesn't seem any different than usual.

[Lakov_Sanite]

afaik they have only tested a grand total of two of the new levelling zones. i think it's a fair assessment to say there is no high end game right now...because they sort of you know, haven't put it in yet?  Honestly I don't know what people are expecting here. You'll get the same amount of endgame you got in wotlk, maybe a little more because they've commented on the pace with which people were running out of things to do. don't like it fine but that's a taste issue. 

I also love how people are complaining about this endgame shit when every other game expansion for an mmo has been rife with complaints like "All this does is give raiders more things to do, what about me?!" and when cataclysm comes out it's "But what about the end game?!" This is your cake, you can eat it, or look at it so pick one.

[Paelos]

I also love how people are complaining about this endgame shit when every other game expansion for an mmo has been rife with complaints like "All this does is give raiders more things to do, what about me?!" and when cataclysm comes out it's "But what about the end game?!" This is your cake, you can eat it, or look at it so pick one.

My style has always been pretty settled on the endgame, so I made my choice long ago. The concern is that they are spending countless manhours doing nothing but putting an old whore in fancier clothes, instead of focusing on things that established players with mains can jump into right away. Either we're going to end up with a further pushed back release date because they haven't even bothered testing anything in the upper tier, or they are going to release a very mediocre/buggy experience at the top end because they can patch in the good stuff later after people reroll.

I don't believe they will push back the release. I think this thing is slated for November come hell or high water. Pushing it back beyond Christmas into January would be a financial disaster.

[Ingmar]

If it is just that zones aren't open yet that's completely normal for the early part of openclosed beta. It was AGES before Netherstorm or Shadowmoon Valley opened up during TBC beta.

[Lakov_Sanite]

If it is just that zones aren't open yet that's completely normal for the early part of openclosed beta. It was AGES before Netherstorm or Shadowmoon Valley opened up during TBC beta.

Exactly, right now it's just doomsaying(ha, cataclysm) people have been spouting the line of "there will be no raiding content" since the expansion was first announced and when you say something enough people start believing it, despite all prior evidence to the contrary.  WoTLK released with a good number of zones to take you to 80 which took people all of what, a month to clear? maybe less...one large raid instance, a handfull of heroics and two single boss raid encounters.  afaik the expansion doesn't have 'less' than that.

[Ingmar]

I think the total number of starting raid bosses is roughly the same, just spread more evenly through different instances.

[AutomaticZen]

If it is just that zones aren't open yet that's completely normal for the early part of openclosed beta. It was AGES before Netherstorm or Shadowmoon Valley opened up during TBC beta.

Here's the full list last I checked.  High level zones in yellow.

Hi all,

Here is a full list of zones, their new level ranges, and which ones are currently ready for quest testing. I will also keep this updated with links to each zone’s official feedback thread. Please try to keep feedback for each zone consolidated into these threads, it would help us keep everything organized!

Alterac - No
Arathi – (25-30) - Yes
Ashenvale – (20-25) – Yes - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=24702403004&sid=2000
Azshara – (10-20) – Yes - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=24702204841&sid=2000
Badlands – (35-40) - No
Blasted Lands – Yes - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25626291119&sid=2000
Burning Steppes – (45-50) - No
Darkshore - (10-20) – Yes - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=24702392353&sid=2000
Deepholm – (82-83) - No
Desolace – Yes - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=24702403012&sid=2000
Dun Morogh – (1-10) - No
Durotar – (1-10) - Yes
Duskwood – (20-25) – Yes - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25399922737&sid=2000
Dustwallow Marsh – (35-40) – Yes - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25712371507&sid=2000
Eastern Plaguelands – (45-50) – No
Echo Isles – Yes - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25399603141&sid=2000
Elwynn Forest – (1-10) - Yes
Felwood – (45-50) - No
Ferelas – (35-40) – Yes - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=24702013601&sid=2000
Gilneas (Worgen Start) – (1-12) - Yes
Hillsbrad – (20-25) - No
Hinterlands – (30-35) – Yes - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25134814097&sid=2000
Loch Modan – (10-20) – Yes - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25626189184&sid=2000
Lost Isles (Goblin Start) – (1-12) - Yes
Mount Hyjal – (79-82) – Yes - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=24702264509&sid=2000
Mulgore – (1-10) - Yes
North Barrens – (10-20) – Yes - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25171930796&sid=2000
Northshire Valley – (1-5) – Yes - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25171673370&sid=2000
Redridge – (15-20) – Yes - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25171930795&sid=2000
Searing Gorge – (45-50) - No
Silithus – (55-60) - No
Silverpine – (10-20) - No
South Barrens – (30-35) – Yes - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=24702153513&sid=2000
Stonetalon – (25-30) – Yes - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=24702402939&sid=2000
Stranglethorn – (25-35) - Yes
Swamp of Sorrows – (50-55) - No
Tanaris – (45-50) – Yes - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=24915354020&sid=2000
Teldrassil – (1-10) - Yes
Thousand Needles – (40-45) - No
Tirisfal Glades – (1-10) – Yes - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25626048535&sid=2000
Twilight Highlands – (84-85) - No
Uldum – (84-85) - No
Un'Goro – (50-55) – Yes - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=24915354232&sid=2000
Vashj'ir – (79-82) - Yes
Western Plaguelands – (40-45) - Yes
Westfall – (10-15) – Yes - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=24915294365&sid=2000
Wetlands – (25-30) – Yes - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25482138230&sid=2000
Winterspring – (50-55) - No

The first dungeon, Blackrock Caverns (80-81), was opened in May.  And Deepholm was just opened Tuesday I believe.   Stonecore Dungeon in Deepholm on Wednesday. WPL yesterday I think. Throne of the Tides (79-81) is partially available apparently.

Levels 84 and 85 are not even implemented.  So yeah, half the shit isn't done.

[Paelos]

Correct. I believe they announced 4 raiding dungeons, but I can't believe they would release all four at once with the expansion. I think they are also redos of MC and BWL first, followed by Grim Batol and something else. Also, Uldum is on the list I believe.