Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
February 29, 2020, 01:30:30 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
Donate! | Shop: Amazon
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  Sports / Fantasy Sports  |  Topic: 2009 NFL 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 ... 22 23 [24] Go Down Print
Author Topic: 2009 NFL  (Read 87960 times)
Rasix
Moderator
Posts: 14565

I am the harbinger of your doom!


Reply #805 on: March 24, 2010, 10:56:36 AM

I'd say they were a bit unfair, but not broken (if that makes any sense).  When I saw the change, my immediate reaction was unfavorable.  This sounds a bit too structured, a bit too controlled. 

 undecided

-Rasix
Ingmar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 19280

Auto Assault Affectionado


Reply #806 on: March 24, 2010, 01:11:18 PM

Just because the odds were against them didn't make the rules unfair

Actually that's exactly what it does. The rules set up a scenario where one team has a massive advantage over the other one, from factors neither can control. It isn't a level playing field and it makes a farce of fair competition.

And no I'm emphatically *not* a Favre fan.  tongue

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 21655


Reply #807 on: March 24, 2010, 01:13:51 PM

That's cause you are a weenie Raspberry
Ingmar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 19280

Auto Assault Affectionado


Reply #808 on: March 24, 2010, 01:15:03 PM

That's cause you are a weenie Raspberry


Yeah yeah. Thanks for the basketball coach, btw.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Stewie
Terracotta Army
Posts: 438


Reply #809 on: March 24, 2010, 01:23:51 PM

Quote
Just because the odds were against them didn't make the rules unfair
Actually yes it does make the rules unfair. Odds being against you is unfair, there is no way around that.
One could argue that the defense plays just as big of a part and because of that they just do their jobs and your offense gets the ball back, and then the odds are back in your favor, but one would be wrong to make that argument.

The simple fact of the matter is that going in to ot one team has an advantage. An advantage that they gained through no effort of their own. You cannot have an even competition when the playing field is uneven.

I would like to see something like a shoot out in hockey for the nfl playoffs where each team gets equal opportunities on offense and if one scores and the other doesn't then they win.

Professional Forum Lurker.
Slayerik
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4868

Victim: Sirius Maximus


Reply #810 on: March 24, 2010, 01:29:40 PM

2 point conversion shootout!  swamp poop

"I have more qualifications than Jesus and earn more than this whole board put together.  My ego is huge and my modesty non-existant." -Ironwood
Ingmar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 19280

Auto Assault Affectionado


Reply #811 on: March 24, 2010, 01:36:39 PM

I would like to see something like a shoot out in hockey for the nfl playoffs where each team gets equal opportunities on offense and if one scores and the other doesn't then they win.

This is basically what the college system is, which people object to for some reason I don't really get.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 21655


Reply #812 on: March 24, 2010, 01:38:55 PM

That's cause you are a weenie Raspberry
Yeah yeah. Thanks for the basketball coach, btw.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
Sure thing, though you really should be thanking the Warriors (for both luring him away and then firing him).
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 40945

Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you and other troops you control.


WWW
Reply #813 on: March 24, 2010, 03:03:46 PM

I would like to see something like a shoot out in hockey for the nfl playoffs where each team gets equal opportunities on offense and if one scores and the other doesn't then they win.

This is basically what the college system is, which people object to for some reason I don't really get.

I object to it because it's the equivalent of giving out participation awards to every player on the team.

As for the odds being against the team who loses the coin toss, well how else would you determine who gets possession first? Since it's obviously unfair that one team gets possession first, even though that's how football works, your solution is to put training wheels on the game and give everyone a "fair" chance.

Draegan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9658


Reply #814 on: March 24, 2010, 03:55:45 PM

Goddam.  Maybe next they'll take out tackling.

How are these remotely comparable?

I still really don't understand the objection to making OT less random. Can one of you articulate clearly what the actual problem you have with the change is?

EDIT: Most of the objections seem to boil down to "change is bad". Am I missing some fundamental reason other than that to oppose this?

NFL teams are made of 3 parts, Offense Defense and Special Teams.  If you don't get the kickoff in OT, man up and play defense.  This is a terrible change.
caladein
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3174


WWW
Reply #815 on: March 24, 2010, 04:19:16 PM

As for the odds being against the team who loses the coin toss, well how else would you determine who gets possession first? Since it's obviously unfair that one team gets possession first, even though that's how football works, your solution is to put training wheels on the game and give everyone a "fair" chance.

The current OT system is so weighted to one side that it's like a coin flip at the beginning of a baseball game determining who gets to use corked bats.

As for fairness, sports are supposed to be as fair as possible.  That's why we have the Draft, and competition committees, and revenue sharing, and to a certain extent, salary caps.

With this system, you still need to "Man Up."  If your special teams gives up a kickoff return for a TD, you lose.  If your defense gives up a touchdown, you lose.  If your offense has the ball first, turns it over, and it leads to any score, you lose.  If your offense goes second and you turn the ball over, you lose.  If you trade field goals on the initial two possessions, it works the same as the current system: first score wins.

Do I still think the college system moved back a bit is better, yes, by a mile.  This makes OT less random, and that's a good thing.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 04:21:08 PM by caladein »

"Point being, they can't make everyone happy, so I hope they pick me." -Ingmar
"OH MY GOD WE'RE SURROUNDED SEND FOR BACKUP DIG IN DEFENSIVE POSITIONS MAN YOUR NECKBEARDS" -tgr
Tannhauser
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4436


Reply #816 on: March 24, 2010, 07:03:59 PM

You just had four quarters to beat the other team.  You failed.  Now you lost a coin toss.  You failed again.  Fail a third time and you lose the game. 

The coin toss does give a statistical advantage.  But football is a game of chances (and inches).  How many times in the game did you have a chance of winning?  You blew all those chances now you're whining about losing a coin toss? 

What if you have a great defense and a lousy offense?  You might be glad to lose the toss and get a turnover or a three and out.

caladein
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3174


WWW
Reply #817 on: March 24, 2010, 07:09:44 PM

You just had four quarters to beat the other team.  You failed.  Now you lost a coin toss.  You failed again.  Fail a third time and you lose the game.

I see a very big difference between fighting another team to a tie through sixty minutes and an event that is by its very nature random.

"Point being, they can't make everyone happy, so I hope they pick me." -Ingmar
"OH MY GOD WE'RE SURROUNDED SEND FOR BACKUP DIG IN DEFENSIVE POSITIONS MAN YOUR NECKBEARDS" -tgr
Paelos
Contributor
Posts: 27070

Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #818 on: March 24, 2010, 08:12:25 PM

Funny, I see "play defense" as a much more viable argument under the "TD and you lose" rules than the "March out your faggy European to win" rules.

CPA, Sports blogger, Mount and Blade enthusiast
Braves by the Numbers, my sports blog
Ingmar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 19280

Auto Assault Affectionado


Reply #819 on: March 24, 2010, 09:31:02 PM

You just had four quarters to beat the other team.  You failed.  Now you lost a coin toss.  You failed again.  Fail a third time and you lose the game.  

Except why is the other team getting rewarded for failing the same amount of times during regular game time but winning the stupid coin toss? It isn't just about being unfair to the team that loses the coin toss, its also about unfairly rewarding the team that wins it.
I would like to see something like a shoot out in hockey for the nfl playoffs where each team gets equal opportunities on offense and if one scores and the other doesn't then they win.

This is basically what the college system is, which people object to for some reason I don't really get.

I object to it because it's the equivalent of giving out participation awards to every player on the team.

As for the odds being against the team who loses the coin toss, well how else would you determine who gets possession first? Since it's obviously unfair that one team gets possession first, even though that's how football works, your solution is to put training wheels on the game and give everyone a "fair" chance.

Again I'm not seeing the connection between the participation award thing and an overtime that actually picks a winner based on the actual skill of the teams. There's nothing unfair about the order of possession in and of itself, it is the sudden death part that causes the stupid results.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 09:33:04 PM by Ingmar »

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Paelos
Contributor
Posts: 27070

Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #820 on: March 24, 2010, 11:22:24 PM

Don't read too much into it Ingmar. They just want the game over. They don't care how it happens as long as there is some sort of conclusion. Shockingly, it's the same reasoning that the players union uses.

CPA, Sports blogger, Mount and Blade enthusiast
Braves by the Numbers, my sports blog
naum
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4250


WWW
Reply #821 on: March 24, 2010, 11:35:23 PM

I hate the OT change. Not as much as the college system, but it still sucks.

Leave it the way it is or make it an entire period of play (or like 2 5-10 minute halves).

Now heard on radio owners want to extend to regular season and other modifications (like moving the KO mark up 5-10 yards in OT).

Don't think they're thinking this through enough.

It's going to turn out that the coin toss winner is going to be strategically at an advantage to kick first.

Some of the other rule changes are ridiculous too.

Like the one about muffed punts. It sounds good and its noble of the NFL to fret over player safety but that puts the defensive guy charging down the field in an awful spot. Unless he ESP to determine beforehand if returner is going to juggle the ball and thus he'll have to lay off the hit/tackle.

How to make the game safer? Get rid of the hard helmets and shoulder pads and replace with softer, more leather like/pillowy material (something designed to protect but not also inflict injury).

"Should the batman kill Joker because it would save more lives?" is a fundamentally different question from "should the batman have a bunch of machineguns that go BATBATBATBATBAT because its totally cool?". ~Goumindong
Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 21655


Reply #822 on: March 24, 2010, 11:43:25 PM

Now heard on radio owners want to extend to regular season and other modifications (like moving the KO mark up 5-10 yards in OT).
If they are willing to do that they don't need to fuck with the scoring rules. It's because of the fact that the KO spot was moved back plus the increase in kickers field goal distances that the odds changed from essentially even to the 3:2 we have now.
 
El Gallo
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2213


Reply #823 on: April 01, 2010, 02:34:22 PM

I like the change. What makes current OT feel cheesy is that an OK kick return and two first downs wins the game.  The TD requirement ends that.

To be honest, I think they should get rid of field goals alltogether, but that's another issue.

This post makes me want to squeeze into my badass red jeans.
naum
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4250


WWW
Reply #824 on: April 01, 2010, 04:42:42 PM

I like the change. What makes current OT feel cheesy is that an OK kick return and two first downs wins the game.  The TD requirement ends that.

To be honest, I think they should get rid of field goals alltogether, but that's another issue.

I'm all for bringing back the dropkick  Thumbs up!

"Should the batman kill Joker because it would save more lives?" is a fundamentally different question from "should the batman have a bunch of machineguns that go BATBATBATBATBAT because its totally cool?". ~Goumindong
WayAbvPar
Moderator
Posts: 19175


Reply #825 on: April 01, 2010, 04:48:45 PM

We should probably start a new thread, since we are 3 full months into 2010  Ohhhhh, I see.

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Libertarians make fun of everyone because they can't see beyond the event horizons of their own assholes Surlyboi
Pages: 1 ... 22 23 [24] Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  Sports / Fantasy Sports  |  Topic: 2009 NFL  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC