[TF2] Scout Update

[caladein]

Yeah, the crowd control floodgates are probably opening.  Slowing body-shots for the sniper!  Gas grenades for the spy!  CC immunities and anti-CC trinkets! And cooldowns...cooldowns...cooldowns!!  Its all coming now 

http://www.steamgames.com/tf2/heavy/natascha.htm

[Malakili]

Yeah, the crowd control floodgates are probably opening.  Slowing body-shots for the sniper!  Gas grenades for the spy!  CC immunities and anti-CC trinkets! And cooldowns...cooldowns...cooldowns!!  Its all coming now 

http://www.steamgames.com/tf2/heavy/natascha.htm

At least if you get slowed you are still playing the game and in control of your player.  If you get stunned, you might as well /afk sammich

[ClydeJr]

http://www.teamfortress.com/scoutupdate/watchtower_and_junction.htm

Two new community maps

arena_watchtower
created by Joshua ‘JoshuaC’ Shiflet
An Arena map that plays unlike any of Valve’s Arena maps, with a heavy focus on vertical space and long, open sight lines. Control of the central building is a key decision that teams must wrestle over. More Sniper friendly than most Arena maps, it’s a perfect complement to the Scout update. Batter up!

cp_junction
created by Sean ‘Heyo’ Cutino
A Gravel-Pit style map that the community has been heckling us to include for months. Junction is a sharp contrast to Watchtower. It’s full of tight spaces and short sight lines, which create combat opportunities dominated by ambushes and explosive weaponry.

[NiX]

Does this mean the update is hitting next week?

[schild]

Does this mean the update is hitting next week?

Next Tuesday.

[Triforcer]

Nobody plays Arena, and Junction sucks (I hate Steel-type maps, this is one in spades).  Next plz. 

[Samwise]

If Junction is the pretty-but-fucking-claustrophobic map I'm thinking of, I pretty much have to agree.

Funny how roughly a decade later nobody's come up with anything that can beat 2fort and dustbowl.

[Prospero]

Shut yo mouth. Arena is tons of fun. Killing the last two people as a medic to win the round is all sorts of  . It does need tweaks though; I prefer it with crits off and a one medic limit.

[Malakili]

Nobody plays Arena, and Junction sucks (I hate Steel-type maps, this is one in spades).  Next plz. 

How is junction like Steel?  This is a gravel-pit style map.  It is WAY too small for pub server play, and arguably too small even for smaller league play.  And yeah, Arena sucks.  Uninspired by the maps released here.

[Prospero]

http://www.teamfortress.com/scoutupdate/energydrink.htm

Apparently the scout likes Nuka Cola. Also, double payload?

[Evil Elvis]

I was arena'ing earlier, and I got the new Watchtower map.  It's a circular area, with the checkpoint at the top of the tower. 

We only had 5v5 teams, so it was hard to get a feel for it, but it seems like it might be fun.  Snipers are definitely going to be key to the map, but it doesn't look like it's going to be the fish-in-a-barrel that I was dreading.

[Triforcer]

Scouts get stun and invincibility?  How long a cooldown will Cloak of Shadows...er, the cola...have? 

[Samwise]

Yeah, if the soda can is a self-uber that slows the scout down after it runs out, which is what it sounds like, I'm not a fan.  I'd be all in favor of something that sped him up while making him more fragile, but something that lets him ignore damage seems all wrong.

[Evil Elvis]

I doubt he'll become invincible, but will just have an incredibly high chance to dodge bullets.  Could be a cool mechanic to counter level 1 sentries.

[Triforcer]

I doubt he'll become invincible, but will just have an incredibly high chance to dodge bullets.  Could be a cool mechanic to counter level 1 sentries.

Depends on whether it allows him to dodge flames and explosives (and spy knife and melee damage, I guess, although thats less important) too.  If it does, that could be pretty overpowered depending on the duration of the cola. 

[Samwise]

I doubt he'll become invincible, but will just have an incredibly high chance to dodge bullets.  Could be a cool mechanic to counter level 1 sentries.

Since sentries can only rotate so fast, a good counter for level 1 sentries is running past them really fast.  An item that provided that ability rather than give a blanket "you take no damage" ability would have been much cooler and fit with the scout's playstyle.

The "dodging bullets" thing is only cool if you get to see the scout do the matrix thing when it happens.  And it would be better if it tied into the gameplay for the scout rather than being an automatic invisible shield.  As it is I'm guessing it's going to be more like "you have the scout squarely in your crosshairs, he's standing perfectly still, and you fire.  MISS!  Try again when the cola buff wears off."

[Evil Elvis]

You can strafe sentries now (I think; I'm still too noob w/ scout to pull it off), but you can't outrun bullets; the hit is determined when the shot is fired, and sentries don't miss.

[Samwise]

They never fire at all if they can't draw a bead on you, though.  Your angular velocity relative to the sentry just needs to be greater than its turning rate, and it'll never get you.

[Evil Elvis]

If your radius to the sentry is short, sure.  But the feel of it (since I've no numbers) is that they couldn't boost your speed fast enough to actually outrun the LOS arc of a sentry shot at anything more than a few feet away.  If I don't take cover the instant a turret gets LOS on me, I'm getting hit.

I mean, maybe they could, but I have trouble keeping my bearings straight now.  Giving the scout much more speed seems like it would be too difficult to control to be worth using.

[Samwise]

I wouldn't even be averse to having a sentry-specific effect where it tracks slower in the presence of this particular buff, to give the effect of the scout moving in "bullet time" without actually moving that fast.  Assuming that what they're going for here is even a sentry counter.  It's having an actual human player draw a bead on you and make a perfect shot and then be told that it missed because he didn't roll high enough that just doesn't sit right.

[Evil Elvis]

Well, I don't think bypassing sentries is the main purpose, but who knows.  I'm thinking the intention is to improve scout elusiveness on maps like 2fort, which is sniper/sentry hell.  I don't see it being very useful on Goldrush.  Maybe situational in arenas if the scout is desperate.

It's entirely possible that the chance to dodge will be based on the distance from the shooter.  Since the cola takes the pistol slot, you have to get up-close for your scattergun to be effective, and that would give your opponents a better chance to land against you.

[Triforcer]

I don't read that description as a "chance to dodge."  Sounds more like full-out bullet invincibility to me.

[eldaec]

Why is it every one of these 'upgrades' is designed to make the game more shitty?

Seriously, so far I hate them all.

[Prospero]

I can't see the cola having a huge impact on the game. Giving up the pistol for an occasional speed boost/dodginess is not an easy decision. I suspect most of my kill shots as a scout are with the pistol; the scattergun is brilliant up close but fairly weak at mid-range. Not to mention the reload time on the scattergun is brutal, and the pistol frequently picks up the slack when you don't have time to reload. The Studio Rumble server has a few really amazing scouts, and they seem to favor their pistol heavily.

I see this as a very situational "weapon", much more so than the most of the other unlocks we've seen thus far. If this effect was in addition to all his other skills it would be crazy, but I think sacrificing the pistol a purely defensive upgrade is a big deal.

[Prospero]

The achievement descriptions are up on the Bonk! page. Looks like some fun stuff in there. Looks like scouts can bat opposing scout stun balls, and that arena is being tweaked to give the first person to kill for the round a buff.

[ClydeJr]

Scattergun replacement seems to be called Force-A-Nature and has a knockback effect.

[Malakili]

Scattergun replacement seems to be called Force-A-Nature and has a knockback effect.

Linky?

[LK]

Scattergun replacement seems to be called Force-A-Nature and has a knockback effect.

Linky?

It's in the achievement descriptions. Lots of references to unrecognizable item names.

[Prospero]

Also, the scout can rocket jump with it.

[Evil Elvis]

The picture from the Thurs. update shows the scout holding the new gun.  It doesn't have the round chamber above the stock, so you'll probably have to reload both barrels after each shot.

[K9]

I haven't played well in ages, so I cannot remember how it works.

How is this possible though?

Quick Hook: Kill a player in Well before the round starts.

[Prospero]

Rocket jump with new gun then double jump over.

[schild]

Beanball: Stun a scout with their own ball.

Oh shit!

[Malakili]

I haven't played well in ages, so I cannot remember how it works.

How is this possible though?

Quick Hook: Kill a player in Well before the round starts.

With a bit of creative double jumping you can get over the train cars.

Alternatively, I suppose you could try to shoot through the gaps, but jumping over seems more viable.

[eldaec]

As far as I can tell, all the scout upgrades are all strictly better than the originals. What kind of retard designer can possibly think this is a good idea?

The bat becomes the bat only you can long range mezz people (wtf)

The pistol was pointless and is replaced by a fucking magic bullet shield (wtf)

The shotgun becomes the shotgun, only with knockback (wtf)


What they should have done:

Bat : More damage much slower swing time - requiring you to time a single swing as you run past someone.

Pistol : Replace with cola, but just make it a speed buff at the cost of taking more damage if you are hit, you use the speed to, you know, RUN FAST AND DODGE BULLETS YOURSELF BECAUSE THIS IS A FRICKING FPS NOT A DIKUCLONE.

Scattergun : +50% damage, -50% range, I have no issue with adding rocket jumping as it fits the scout concept, but knockback? Fuck that noise.