[TF2] Scout Update

[eldaec]

I suspect most of my kill shots as a scout are with the pistol; the scattergun is brilliant up close but fairly weak at mid-range.

I'm sure you have far more hours on a Scout and on TF2 than I do, but if this is the case shouldn't you be playing a different class?

[NiX]

The whole problem the scout has is that once you get in close on your average server (Well, Gravel Pit, 2fort) you're done. Splash damage typically kills you. Allowing the scout throw people around a bit so they can dash off gives the class a bit more flexibility.

I think they're releasing 2 bats. Sandman and Force-A-Nature. Sandman stuns and Force-A-Nature lets you physically hit someone away, which is no where close to how bad you say it is. Do you realize how close you have to get to do that?

[eldaec]

tbh, the long range mez, invisible bullet shield buffs, and the lack of any significant disadvantage to the unlockables that bothers me more than knockback.

Knocking people out of the way at least makes some sort of sense for the scout concept (unlike mezzing) and doesn't clash with the fps/twitch nature of the game (unlike invisble bullet shields)

[NiX]

The mezzing is to give the scout some kind of support ability. The only good use for one is pissing people off and intel runs. Keep in mind they haven't posted the downsides to the unlockables yet, though they hint that the energy drink could kill you if you use it too much, so either it's on a timer and drains health or you can chug it back at the cost of possibly getting yourself killed.

[K9]

You're overreacting. The sandman removes the ability to double-jump, so the stun ability either becomes a means for scouts to take a more direct route and get past defenders, or it opens up new roles in teams for dealing with ubers. Not being able to double-jump will force scouts to take the same routes that all the other classes take, classes which generally have more up-front survivability.

As for the enrgy drink, it removes the scouts' long-range viability and it's a 3-4s boost followed by a snare. It's hardly some form of lol-invincibility buff that will allow scouts to be gods. At best it's a situational tool that helps mobility in a tight corner at the cost of offense. Also, there's more damage in games than just bullets, and I doub't the drink will allow you to dodge explosions, rockets or flames.

I'm waiting before I doomcry myself.

[Prospero]

I suspect most of my kill shots as a scout are with the pistol; the scattergun is brilliant up close but fairly weak at mid-range.

I'm sure you have far more hours on a Scout and on TF2 than I do, but if this is the case shouldn't you be playing a different class?

Nope. The scattergun puts your fragile little self right next to the big baddie, which means all of your maneuverability is with worth pretty much dick. You can circle strafe a heavy, but pretty much other class, including a good medic can put a hurt on you up close. I tend to soften up people with my pistol at long to medium range, switch to scattergun  for a couple big hits, and then run away peppering them with the pistol again. Soldiers are the most funt; stay at range plinking at them while they shoot at you with rockets, then when they get annoyed and switch to the shotgun come bounding in to hit them with the scatter gun. Rinse repeat as necessary.

[NiX]

Yeah, it sounds like you're been the person at the hurting end of a good scout, Eldaec. They're honestly few and far between and these changes are needed to get people to play them as more than cannon fodder.

[K9]

I think that was something Valve mentioned on their blog, that the scout is probably the most extreme in the "Easy to learn, hard to master" category.

[schild]

I am stoked and have reinstalled TF2 in anticipation.

[Triforcer]

Force-A-Nature out.

Huh...unless those barrels do a lot more damage then the regular shotgun, I don't see this as an upgrade.  What good does knockback actually DO the scout?  If anything, the first shot sends them farther away and makes it harder to hit with the second shot.

Given these unlocks, as a pubbie, I think I'd run only with the cola.  Maybe an alt setup is to run with the new shotgun and Sandman, but not the cola (so you still have that midrange offense, and losing double jump is somewhat ameliorated by the shotgun jump). 

[Samwise]

The damage-less rocket jump effect sounds like a pretty sweet upgrade.

[NiX]

I think a lot of people tend to forget that the alternative weapons aren't supposed to be vertical movements in the upgrade department. Almost every weapon is a lateral move in terms of +/- changes.

Tri - A good scout uses his pistol. It has increased accuracy versus other pistols, so you shotty/bat and then pick them off while they have reduced accuracy from being pushed away. Scout isn't a tank, this just increased survivability.

[schild]

The Force-A-Nature seems freaking amazing. Someone buy me that shirt.

See, what they needed though, was a way to knock back turrets, or knock them over. "Help me. Is anybody there? I love you."

[Prospero]

Knockback will be fricking awesome on 2fort.  I frequently have people try to block me in with their meatsacks when I'm escaping with their intel. It'll also be nice for clearing folks off of the spires in badlands. I'm curious to see just how bad the reload is.

[Ookii]

The first person to master blasting themselves in the air only to switch to the bat and dizzy people while they're mid-air will rape face.

[NiX]

The first person to master blasting themselves in the air only to switch to the bat and dizzy people while they're mid-air will rape face.

My goal for my study break.

[Der Helm]

Should this not be starting today ?

[ClydeJr]

Probably. I think the heavy update went live on the night when the last item was revealed.

[schild]

It should be starting today, but never expect Valve to be timely.

[schild]

[Samwise]

I no longer allow myself to truly believe in a Valve update until I see it sitting on my hard drive.  For whatever reason, they're incapable of keeping to the schedules they post. Expecting otherwise only leads to heartbreak.

[schild]

It's true!

[Samwise]

Damn you all for making me think about it.  I would have happily forgotten about the update until it'd been out for a few days, but now I'm here refreshing the stupid update page looking for the "Coming Tuesday" that will inevitably not appear until sometime tomorrow.

[schild]

Update just started downloading.

[ClydeJr]

Final update is pretty disappointing. All it is is the results of the poll. No new "Meet the..." video. No new game mode. No new Valve map (especially since the background of the Bonk picture looked like a double payload map). The entire scout update is 3 unlockables, some achievements, an update to an old map, and 2 maps that someone else made for them for free.

[Prospero]

Man that just sucks. I'm just going to have to spend 30 hours playing with the new scout toys on new maps. Shucks. Maybe I should just kill myself.

I am bummed about not getting the double payload map or whatever the hell that is.

[Triforcer]

Actual details of the weapons are already on the steam forums-

(1) Bonk puts you in third person for 3-4 seconds- no shooting, but immunity from ALL damage (yes, all).

(2) FAN apparently doesn't do any more damage per bullet, but reload isn't actually ungodly slow.

(3) You get one ball.  You can either retrieve it from where you shot it, or it comes back in roughly 20 seconds.


Also, spy backstab is now instantaneous (!).  However, sidestab has been removed (please to be telling me how to get snipers now?)

[schild]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX__swbUwag&fmt=18

amazing.

[Samwise]

All the terrible scouts are fucking awesome fun.


 

[ClydeJr]

They make great firewood though.

[LK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX__swbUwag&fmt=18

amazing.

WOW. Holy shit.

[Xurtan]

Yeah, nice moves mumbles!
Look at this, just caved in your skull, my bat's still dry. No clumps of hair, nothing.

I think the heavy and pyro ones are my favorite. 

Instant spy stabs now? Woot and stuff. No more missing because I suck at flickstabbing. Although trying to stab snipers might be interesting.

[Ookii]

I haven't had a chance to play this yet, what's the word on how the sandman changes gameplay?  Are people really stopping ubers with it?

[schild]

I haven't had a chance to play this yet, what's the word on how the sandman changes gameplay?  Are people really stopping ubers with it?

Didn't see that last night. Maybe though.

[Xurtan]

The long range stun length on the Sandman seems pretty ridiculous. I can see a Scout that has gotten good with the ball being a bane to all Snipers. (It does make me wonder how hard the ball is to see being shot at you, however. Will a Sniper see it coming and be able to move in time?)

Do regular ammo packs increase the ball regen, like the Spy cloak, or is it one ammo one ball, no matter the size ammo pack?  As long as you have the ammo you could theoretically chain stun someone.