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[Sheepherder]

Cameron made both your points. You can't make a 1:1 recreation of history and expect it to do well, but you can fluff the shit out of the same damn story and people will flock. Which, funny enough, is a point both of you have made.

CONGRATS!

Not really.  Read the Cameron comment again, his entire point is that historical settings don't work even though the plot does.  Also, you need to want to fuck the chick.  Do I have to dredge up every horrible CGI movie here?  Maybe make a fuckability scale and plot Tom Hanks and blue chick on it?

[Merusk]

I'd love to see that, actually.

[Riggswolfe]

Read the Cameron comment again, his entire point is that historical settings don't work even though the plot does. 

And again, he is correct. If you dress up a historical story in some other way it is going to make more money. It's basically film-making 101. Steal a historical story, dress it up and make it modern/fantasy/scifi and it will outsell the same story done as a historical movie.

[Sheepherder]

I agree, Schindler's List without Jews, Nazis, or Oskar Schindler would be a much better movie.

[WindupAtheist]

I still want to see a chart.

[Sheepherder]

I figured I'd include the Little Nicky guy and Smurfette.  This is estimated "I'd hit that" per capita.

[Oban]

I do not understand the chart.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Me either, I found the na'vi girl quite fuckable...well if you like night elves I guess.

Also it's probably been said but I could watch a whole movie of that marine security chief fucking shit up in a mech. Why give a mech a bowie knife? because its fucking badass, that's why. 

[Sheepherder]

Me either, I found the na'vi girl quite fuckable...well if you like night elves I guess.

Random skin bumps.  Use protection.

[Riggswolfe]

I agree, Schindler's List without Jews, Nazis, or Oskar Schindler would be a much better movie.

Are you intentionally misunderstanding things? Noone has said better. Why do I let you keep dragging me into this silly argument when you keep trying to change what the discussion even is?

[pxib]

Actually it's a perfect example. Surely Spielberg, of all people, knew that the same plot would make a lot more money in big budget, other-worldly metaphor... but for once in his life he wanted to actually win an Oscar. So he pandered to the critics and the establishment and made a genuine Holocaust film. Cameron has his Oscar, and would rather just make (and spend) money.

[Merusk]

Anywhoo..

Saw this in IMAX 3-d finally, today.  (Damn places was packed, too.)   I can't envision watching it any other way than 3D and not thinking it was bad.   Predictable & disappointing but sooo visually stunning I see what everyone's been creaming their pants about.  Fantastic use of 3d. Loved the way the computer holos and subtitles just floated.   The ash and seed pods were fantasticly well-used.

 The biggest headache, to me, was Cameron's use of traditional 2d tricks in some of the shots.   I wanted to look at something else in the scene, just to see what it looked like, but he had it out of focus because he wanted to draw your attention elsewhere.  The first example that comes to mind is in one of the first lab scenes on planet.  Something was in the foreground, blurred and I wanted to look at it.  My mind and eyes rebelled a bit when I couldn't focus on it and gave me a bit of a woozy moment.

[Oban]

Yes, shaky-cam needs to be banned in 3d movies until they figure out how to keep the whole image in focus.

[Sheepherder]

Are you intentionally misunderstanding things? Noone has said better. Why do I let you keep dragging me into this silly argument when you keep trying to change what the discussion even is?

Use any word you like: Schindler's List would be a horrible movie and in all probability would not sell well if you dressed it up as anything other than what it is, because the point of the movie is the context, and the entire dramatic impact of the movie is more or less derived from "Holy fuck, this is real."

[Ratman_tf]

I think the Holocaust would be a lot cooler if Shindler were like Aragorn and he cut Hitler's head off with a sword.

[Riggswolfe]

Are you intentionally misunderstanding things? Noone has said better. Why do I let you keep dragging me into this silly argument when you keep trying to change what the discussion even is?

Use any word you like: Schindler's List would be a horrible movie and in all probability would not sell well if you dressed it up as anything other than what it is, because the point of the movie is the context, and the entire dramatic impact of the movie is more or less derived from "Holy fuck, this is real."

In your opinion. Better or worse is immaterial to Cameron's quote. He is speaking purely about money and getting asses in seats. You could easily make a movie with aliens as the jews and some brave human doing what he can to save as many of them from some horrible fate at the hands of the other humans and you'd make lots of money assuming the movie was decently made. I'm going to try again to leave this silly argument because it's becoming even more clear you're not even trying to discuss this in good faith.

[Oban]

You could easily make a movie with aliens as the jews and some brave human doing what he can to save as many of them from some horrible fate at the hands of the other humans and you'd make lots of money assuming the movie was decently made.

District 9?

[KallDrexx]

So I went to go see this in IMAX 3d last night at 11pm.  Sold out :(

[Samwise]

I was going to wait and Netflix it (if a movie is going to take up 3 hours of my life I usually prefer to have a pause button handy), but after all the froth about the 3D I guess I'll try to see it in a theater.  Maybe about a month from now when it's possible to get seats without waiting in line.

[Riggswolfe]

You could easily make a movie with aliens as the jews and some brave human doing what he can to save as many of them from some horrible fate at the hands of the other humans and you'd make lots of money assuming the movie was decently made.

District 9?

I haven't seen District 9 yet but I figured it had some allegories. Considering where it is set I figured it was more about apartheid but hey, it works.

Edit: And Avatar has reportedly crossed the $1 billion mark. I have to wonder, if this surpasses Titanic as #1 will studio executives refuse James Cameron anything?

[WindupAtheist]

Jesus Christ, it's going up way the hell faster than I expected even once I saw the lack of a second-weekend dropoff. It may have a shot at Titanic after all, and is only a snort away from all-time #2 as it is.

[Riggswolfe]

Jesus Christ, it's going up way the hell faster than I expected even once I saw the lack of a second-weekend dropoff. It may have a shot at Titanic after all, and is only a snort away from all-time #2 as it is.

Me too. I sort of assumed standard weekly dropoffs and so far it's only dropping about 10% per week. That's just crazy...

[Merusk]

It'll be just a memorable a cultural touchstone, too, I'm sure. 

[UnSub]

I do not understand the chart.

You've got a 46% chance of getting laid by Tom Hanks.

[UnSub]

I still haven't seen the blu-ray version of The Thing, but I'd still like to see a Cameron version of it. He was able to expand upon the claustrophobic atmosphere of Alien. Why not The Thing?

Actually you've just killed any interest in Cameron remaking the remake of "The Thing". "Alien" was all about being trapped in a situation with something that was very dangerous. "Aliens" was about being trapped in a situation with lots of things that were very dangerous, but you've got lots of guns and trained team behind you. "Alien" was a horror film, "Aliens" was an action film. "The Thing" shouldn't be an action film, where the trained Navy SEALS kill hundreds of Things with M60s.

... of course, at this point, if Cameron said, "I'd like to remake "Ilsa, She-Wolf of the SS" but really want the women to suffer this time", he'd have billions of dollars thrown at him, so my opinion is pretty irrelevant.

[Ratman_tf]

Cameron is a good showman, like Bay. I predict it will about double it's cost to make. (so about 500-700 mil.) Complete guessitmate there.

 

[Teleku]

I still haven't seen the blu-ray version of The Thing, but I'd still like to see a Cameron version of it. He was able to expand upon the claustrophobic atmosphere of Alien. Why not The Thing?

Actually you've just killed any interest in Cameron remaking the remake of "The Thing". "Alien" was all about being trapped in a situation with something that was very dangerous. "Aliens" was about being trapped in a situation with lots of things that were very dangerous, but you've got lots of guns and trained team behind you. "Alien" was a horror film, "Aliens" was an action film. "The Thing" shouldn't be an action film, where the trained Navy SEALS kill hundreds of Things with M60s.

... of course, at this point, if Cameron said, "I'd like to remake "Ilsa, She-Wolf of the SS" but really want the women to suffer this time", he'd have billions of dollars thrown at him, so my opinion is pretty irrelevant.

Just an FYI, they are actually working on a prequel to The Thing right now.  Ron Moore has apparently just finished up the script a few months ago.  The movie is suppose to be all about what happened to the Norwegians seen at the very beginning of the film.  Still in pre-production, but might actually be good if it gets green lighted.

[Sheepherder]

District 9?

Made less than Schindler's List.  But don't mind me, I'm not arguing in good faith.

[Rishathra]

Nobody said good movies can't make money.  Nobody said well done, accurate historical dramas can't make money.  It's just that historically () those movies on the average make much less than your basic schlocky blockbuster.

[stu]

I still haven't seen the blu-ray version of The Thing, but I'd still like to see a Cameron version of it. He was able to expand upon the claustrophobic atmosphere of Alien. Why not The Thing?

Actually you've just killed any interest in Cameron remaking the remake of "The Thing". "Alien" was all about being trapped in a situation with something that was very dangerous. "Aliens" was about being trapped in a situation with lots of things that were very dangerous, but you've got lots of guns and trained team behind you. "Alien" was a horror film, "Aliens" was an action film. "The Thing" shouldn't be an action film, where the trained Navy SEALS kill hundreds of Things with M60s.

... of course, at this point, if Cameron said, "I'd like to remake "Ilsa, She-Wolf of the SS" but really want the women to suffer this time", he'd have billions of dollars thrown at him, so my opinion is pretty irrelevant.

You're splitting hairs, but I see your point. All I'm saying is, I'd like to see someone who can make a badass movie working on an updated version of The Thing.  It wouldn't need to be an action movie at all, and really, why would it?

Ron Moore working on it sounds cool, prequel or not.

[Sheepherder]

Nobody said good movies can't make money.  Nobody said well done, accurate historical dramas can't make money.  It's just that historically () those movies on the average make much less than your basic schlocky blockbuster.

And "historical" (note: I never broached the subject of historical accuracy) doesn't necessarily preclude "blockbuster", unless you're James Cameron.  Which is the argument.

Along the line of moneyhats, if you go here you will note that Avatar doesn't even appear in the top 100 movies adjusted for inflation yet.  This would put it under:

The Bridge on the River Kwai (WWII Burma)
Lawrence of Arabia (WWI Middle East)
The Passion of the Christ (The history of passion plays is )
Cleopatra (1963)
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
Forrest Gump (like an American history textbook with an extra retard)
Titanic
The Ten Commandments

So yeah, a mixed bag of historical fiction, dramatizations, or whateverthefuck is greater than the latest CGI wankfest in terms of tickets sold.

[Abagadro]

That is just domestic though.  Those days the foreign market wasn't much. Avatar is getting 2/3rds of its gross from overseas at this point.

[Sheepherder]

I actually tried finding a global one adjusted for inflation, no dice.  I can't blame them, that would be a lot of math to make suspect numbers.

[WindupAtheist]

Yeah, yeah, and adjusted for inflation, Gone With the Wind is still SHUT UP GRANDMA.

[Abagadro]

They already have that list but you need to have a premier membership to see it.