 Author
|
Topic: Avatar (Read 205990 times)
|
|
Tannhauser
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4436
|
I guess I just didn't understand how high the stakes were for Earth. They didn't make it clear enough. The earth's dying. OK how long do they have? Is this a last, desperate mission, sure didn't seem that way. It seemed to me like it was just a money grab by a company who could afford ex-military.
Also interesting is the anti-tech message of the movie when it is the most technologically advanced movie ever made.
|
|
|
|
|
Ratman_tf
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3818
|
Also interesting is the anti-tech message of the movie when it is the most technologically advanced movie ever made.
And they said Avatar didn't have a deep message.  |
 "What I'm saying is you should make friends with a few catasses, they smell funny but they're very helpful." -Calantus makes the best of a smelly situation. |
|
|
MrHat
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7432
Out of the frying pan, into the fire.
|
I guess I just didn't understand how high the stakes were for Earth. They didn't make it clear enough. The earth's dying. OK how long do they have? Is this a last, desperate mission, sure didn't seem that way. It seemed to me like it was just a money grab by a company who could afford ex-military.
Also interesting is the anti-tech message of the movie when it is the most technologically advanced movie ever made.
Didn't seem anti tech to me. The whole planet is a giant network with I/O's. |
|
|
|
|
jakonovski
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4388
|
the anti-tech message of the movie
Where exactly was this message given? |
|
|
|
|
Lakov_Sanite
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7590
|
They never say(to my knowledge) that the unobtanium is to help earth, afaik it's to make money. The main guy says he's from a dying planet and that his people killed their enwa(or whatever) but I'm pretty sure that these people never use the word 'earth' either. Things seem to be kept specifically vague in the movie.
|
~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
|
|
|
UnSub
Contributor
Posts: 8064
|
It's not anti-tech, it's anti-capitalism / pro-environmentalism / pro-sex with athletic women who already have boyfriends.
|
|
|
|
|
Sheepherder
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5192
|
pro-sex with athletic women who already have boyfriends. Don't forget the skin lesions.  |
|
|
|
|
|
Samprimary
|
Fun fact: On the all-time opening weekend list, it's #28. Not all that impressive. But it's had the biggest second, third, and fourth weekends of all time.
This is pretty much because the opening weekend was in the same timeframe as nature dumping a shit-ton of snow all over us. East coast got hit particularly hard in many places. |
|
|
|
|
Riggswolfe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8046
|
|
"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
|
|
|
LK
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4268
|
The movie is too perfect on both sides. Too easy to root for the Na'vi, too easy to rally against the EVUL CORPORAT1ON. Yeah I'd say fuck Earth too if there was this wonderful interconnected society of respect and harmony where everyone is on the same page if you plug your hair penis into them.
|
"Then there's the double-barreled shotgun from Doom 2 - no-one within your entire household could be of any doubt that it's been fired because it sounds like God slamming a door on his fingers." - Yahtzee Croshaw
|
|
|
WindupAtheist
Army of One
Posts: 7028
Badicalthon
|
This is pretty much because the opening weekend was in the same timeframe as nature dumping a shit-ton of snow all over us. East coast got hit particularly hard in many places. Not really that much difference. Fox claims the blizzard cost them maybe one or two million that weekend. People who think they're lowballing call it three or four. Another four million still wouldn't have put it in the top twenty. |
"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig." -- Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome." -- Me
|
|
|
|
Velorath
|
I'd like to see the breakdown between the 2D ticket sales and the 3D ones though. Just not enough to go look them up...
I doubt you'd be able to find a breakdown anywhere. Suffice it to say that 3D outdoes 2D sales by a huge margin, at least based on sales at my theater. Also note that the next 3D movie to hit theaters is Alice in Wonderland which opens at the beginning of March. For theaters like mine which only have a few digital projectors, Avatar will likely run in 3D on at least 1 screen for the next couple months, whereas the 2D prints will probably get pushed aside to make room for something else a lot quicker. |
|
|
|
|
LK
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4268
|
I'll watch Alice in 3D. It's the spectacle of it really. I've seen enough 2D films that I crave something else visually stimulating.
|
"Then there's the double-barreled shotgun from Doom 2 - no-one within your entire household could be of any doubt that it's been fired because it sounds like God slamming a door on his fingers." - Yahtzee Croshaw
|
|
|
|
Velorath
|
They're going to need to make a LOT more 3D movies to get people to give a crap about 3D in their home.
Aside from Avatar and Coraline (which might be debatable) pretty much every major 3D movie released in 2009 was either a kid's movie or a really shitty horror movie. 2010 really doesn't seem to be much different except that it lacks any sort of equivalent to Avatar. Unless you've had a burning need to see the Step Up franchise make the jump to 3D there's not going to be much for adults to enjoy in 3D beyond some of the kids' stuff that appeals to all ages (Toy Story 3, Shrek). |
|
|
|
|
|
Venkman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11536
|
In talking this through with some friends this morning, I realized there was only one thing that annoyed me. Everything else was spectacle for the sake of (sfx) or mediocrity not even worth discussing (story and acting). And I didn't so mind the accelerated the hero's journey.
What got to me was the premise. I can turn off the brain on most of it except the World Tree. Two parts here: nobody established why unobtanium was so important; and, nobody established why on the whole goddamned planet they needed the one 200km away.
If the message was "to save Earth" instead of profit and they said "the only deposit on the entire planet" instead of because it was closest, I woulda been ok with it.
If we're in fantasy land though, I'd have preferred the entire human settlement have the epiphany that maybe a world war over the World Tree wasn't worth the hassle and instead they should, ya know, move the fucking base to some other part of the whole freakin' planet where there's more than likely an easier deposit to get to.
|
|
|
|
|
LK
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4268
|
They didn't establish it in too much detail beyond profit to keep it simple and not overthink the human's needs and make it clearer that the Na'vi are 100% right and the humans can go fuck themselves for their pursuits.
|
"Then there's the double-barreled shotgun from Doom 2 - no-one within your entire household could be of any doubt that it's been fired because it sounds like God slamming a door on his fingers." - Yahtzee Croshaw
|
|
|
Abagadro
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12227
Possibly the only user with more posts in the Den than PC/Console Gaming.
|
Should have called it McGuffinite.
|
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
-H.L. Mencken
|
|
|
|
Venkman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11536
|
They didn't establish it in too much detail beyond profit to keep it simple and not overthink the human's needs and make it clearer that the Na'vi are 100% right and the humans can go fuck themselves for their pursuits.
Uh, should I be insulted you thought I needed that explained? I know why they did it. I also figure they did it because that's exactly how Pocahontas did it, which they used lock stock and barrel rather than change nearly anything about it at all. I'd just have preferred it be a bit different. Heck, even though I think it could be A New Hope for a new generation, even that had more depth to it (not by a lot, but still...)
Edit: trigger-happy Post click |
|
|
|
|
LK
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4268
|
No, you shouldn't be insulted.
|
"Then there's the double-barreled shotgun from Doom 2 - no-one within your entire household could be of any doubt that it's been fired because it sounds like God slamming a door on his fingers." - Yahtzee Croshaw
|
|
|
sickrubik
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2967
|
|
beer geek.
|
|
|
Margalis
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12335
|
Hay guyz, I'm finding some logical inconsistencies and lazy plotting in a story centered around "unobtanium."
Imagine!
|
vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
|
|
|
Amarr HM
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3066
|
Yeh cause allegorical stories/movies need to use authentic sounding words and plausible storylines.
|
I'm going to escape, come back, wipe this place off the face of the Earth, obliterate it and you with it.
|
|
|
Lakov_Sanite
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7590
|
I'm not sure but I don't believe they said that the na'vi tree held the only source on the planet, just the biggest. Also that wasn't really the world tree, those white spirit trees were the central hubs for their networks so I assume the giant tree that did get burned while uncommon, there could be a lot more around the planet.
|
~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
|
|
|
sickrubik
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2967
|
oOn the subject of Unobtanium: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UnobtaniumSure, it would still be nicer if there was a better term used, but that article helped me be a lot more okay with the choice than I had prior to reading it. |
beer geek.
|
|
|
Mattemeo
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1128
|
oOn the subject of Unobtanium: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UnobtaniumSure, it would still be nicer if there was a better term used, but that article helped me be a lot more okay with the choice than I had prior to reading it. I've been considering posting that entry for a few days, now. Unobtanium is scientifically sound (it even closely resembles the systematic element names). [Un]-[oct]-[en]-[ium] would be a perfect fit going by current IUPAC rules, but lacks that certain tongue-in-cheek element. It's not a far stretch to imagine in the future of Avatar, there are more variables to the IUPAC rules and in fact Unobtanium is the true given name. Plus, it's still less daft than handwavium  |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 08:16:37 AM by Mattemeo »
|
|
If you party with the Party Prince you get two complimentary after-dinner mints
|
|
|
Teleku
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10516
https://i.imgur.com/mcj5kz7.png
|
Yeah, I was going to say, have you guys seen the end of the Periodic Table?
Americium, Fuck Yeah!
|
"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants. He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
|
|
|
Draegan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10043
|
In talking this through with some friends this morning, I realized there was only one thing that annoyed me. Everything else was spectacle for the sake of (sfx) or mediocrity not even worth discussing (story and acting). And I didn't so mind the accelerated the hero's journey.
What got to me was the premise. I can turn off the brain on most of it except the World Tree. Two parts here: nobody established why unobtanium was so important; and, nobody established why on the whole goddamned planet they needed the one 200km away.
If the message was "to save Earth" instead of profit and they said "the only deposit on the entire planet" instead of because it was closest, I woulda been ok with it.
If we're in fantasy land though, I'd have preferred the entire human settlement have the epiphany that maybe a world war over the World Tree wasn't worth the hassle and instead they should, ya know, move the fucking base to some other part of the whole freakin' planet where there's more than likely an easier deposit to get to.
It was all explained in the movie. This unobtanium was exxxxtreeeemely valuable and used for energy and stuff and it was only found in far away places which made it very expensive to get. They also explained why they blew up the big tree house because it was sitting on top of the largest deposit of this shit on the whole planet, or at least in the general area. So it that spot had the biggest payout as far as logistics etc anywhere. So they just blew up the tree. The tree wasn't anything special other than it was their home. That glowy tree (as mentioned above) was their central harddrive so-to-speak. If you saw, they were out there with one spaceship and it took them a bunch of years to get there, so it wasn't just as easy as pick up the base and all the mining equipment and go somewhere else on the planet. They don't have Star Wars/Trek, Culture, whatever technology where they can just get up and move no problem. This was a corporation also that was driven by profit. There could of been a better place to go but they were already established in one spot. It was cheaper, and easier, to kill a bunch of blue people to get at a big chunk that would keep their operation functional and making money for the foreseeable future. |
|
|
|
|
|
Nevermore
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4740
|
I don't remember if it was in the movie or if I just read it someplace, but Unobtanium in the movie is supposed to be a naturally occurring superconductor, which is why it floats in a magnetic field.
|
Over and out.
|
|
|
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449
Badge Whore
|
oOn the subject of Unobtanium: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UnobtaniumSure, it would still be nicer if there was a better term used, but that article helped me be a lot more okay with the choice than I had prior to reading it. I just chuckle every time I've heard or seen the name, since it's always been a joke in my industry when referring to anything structurally impossible. "What are you holding that up with? Unobtanium and Sky Hooks?" |
The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
|
|
|
taolurker
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1460
|
I don't remember if it was in the movie or if I just read it someplace, but Unobtanium in the movie is supposed to be a naturally occurring superconductor, which is why it floats in a magnetic field.
I never understood why name it Unobtanium, although I also already knew the origin of the word meaning something impossible. Coming up with a fictitious superconductor name alone could've lent the movie twice the credibility to me. That glowy tree (as mentioned above) was their central harddrive so-to-speak. The fact that they were mining something impossible according to the name, combined with a way to project a human into a blue elf blank? I actually equated this blank as lacking the tree computer the Na'vi needed to TAIL interface with, but this also had me wondering how the hell the humans took control of one. If they have a transmitter that took control of them, why the hell not just use it to shut all the other natives off? Also... I actually went back in this thread to check, and did remember a discussion of Cameron favoring naked blue natives over historical re-enactments, but I don't think anyone brought this tidbit into the discussion. The DVD is going to have a sex scene trimmed from the final cut. Source: Avatar fans promised alien sex scene on DVD. Kind of makes me wonder what the rated R version would've been... Like some ultra violent 5 hour masturbation over blue natives, with twice the Bey-esque 'splosions? |
I used to write for extinct gaming sites
details available here (unused blog about page)
|
|
|
Riggswolfe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8046
|
The fact that they were mining something impossible according to the name, combined with a way to project a human into a blue elf blank? I actually equated this blank as lacking the tree computer the Na'vi needed to TAIL interface with, but this also had me wondering how the hell the humans took control of one. If they have a transmitter that took control of them, why the hell not just use it to shut all the other natives off? Are you talking about the avatars themselves? The movie very clearly explains what they are: essentially clones with human and na'vii DNA mixed. It's a little handwavey but it works. The whole reason Jake Sully is there is that an avatar is made for one specific human but his dead brother happened to be his twin so they were "close enough" for it to work. If you're not talking about the avatars then I'm not sure what the hell you're talking about. |
"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
|
|
|
taolurker
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1460
|
I'm talking about him needing to be hooked to the machine, and it broadcasting him into the avatar. The connection should've been able to be engineered into a weapon against the Na'vi. I did get the mix of human DNA, but weren't they also able to permanently make him inhabit that body?
I guess I was not able to get past the glaring graphics to think about it until now, but basically I just don't get how any of that Avatar stuff makes sense.
|
I used to write for extinct gaming sites
details available here (unused blog about page)
|
|
|
|
pxib
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4701
|
If you're wondering how he eats and breathes, and other science facts...
|
if at last you do succeed, never try again
|
|
|
WindupAtheist
Army of One
Posts: 7028
Badicalthon
|
la la la
|
"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig." -- Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome." -- Me
|
|
|
Koyasha
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1363
|
That doesn't seem like a particularly large issue to me, it makes sense overall. The avatars are designed and grown for that specific purpose, so presumably they have special modifications and possibly a special reciever placed inside them in order to facilitate this remote hookup. If we have two computers that are similar, but one has integrated wireless and the ability to log into it remotely, the presence of those abilities on that computer doesn't imply an ability to use that wireless signal to interfere with the one that does not have that hardware. The avatars have extra hardware that the na'vi don't have.
Even ignoring that, and assuming that it could theoretically have been developed into a weapon, it certainly seemed like pretty much all the actual scientists were not in favor of attacking and/or harming the na'vi, so it seems unlikely they would be willing to engineer this technology into an actual weapon.
There's a lot of relatively nonsensical things in the movie, but this really doesn't seem like one of them.
|
-Do you honestly think that we believe ourselves evil? My friend, we seek only good. It's just that our definitions don't quite match.-
Ailanreanter, Arcanaloth
|
|
|
|
 |
